Confederate Yankee
January 13, 2009
In Keeping with Lincoln Parallel, Michelle Obama to become Depressed, Schzophrenic
Really, what else is left to copy?
In a nod to the times, however, Mrs. Obama will be sentenced to
The View instead of a mental institution.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
06:11 PM
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1
Linked. And still laughing!
Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at January 13, 2009 06:30 PM (NyXVW)
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at January 13, 2009 07:43 PM (HG6DM)
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Given a choice I'd opt for the mental institution, at least there they give the other patients thorazine when they get out of line. They'd have to use horse tranquilizer on Whoopi.
Posted by: mushroom at January 13, 2009 09:06 PM (Q+e9x)
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Is the Obama team aware that Lincoln was a Republican?
Posted by: arch at January 14, 2009 11:34 AM (ZZW37)
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arch, haven't you been paying attention -
Republicans are the new Democrats!
Posted by: David at January 14, 2009 03:15 PM (NmR1a)
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What ?? No visit to Dr. Phil ?
Posted by: Neo at January 14, 2009 09:27 PM (Yozw9)
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January 12, 2009
CNN's Alibi Hasn't Seen the Raw Tape, and Won't Produce It
Today I contacted Paul Martin, the co-owner of World News and Features whom CNN cited in their claim that Ashraf Masharawi's video of his brother's death in a Gaza hospital emergency room as the result of being fired upon by an Israeli drone was indeed legitimate as shown, and not staged as many right of center bloggers have contended.
I asked Mr. Martin a series of questions about the video, including queries about the apparent inconsistencies in the timeline in various versions as told presented by
CNN and
Channel 4 as noted by Dan Riehl, and why the family was so adamant that an Israeli drone fired a missile that targeted the two boys playing on the rooftop. Did the family members directly witnessed a drone firing a missile, or did they hear the explosion, go to the roof, see a drone, and assume it was a drone that fired?
I also asked Martin, who is in the business of selling news footage, if CNN and Channel 4 were clients, and if so, if they purchased the edited versions of this Masharawi video, or if they purchased the raw footage to be made into a finished product by these news organizations.
Martin responded this evening via email that:
We plan to post the entire unedited videotape of the whole event, on our website, as soon as we can obtain the whole thing from Gaza... something which can happen when there is an end to hostilities.
There you have it, folks. CNN's alibi hasn't seen the unedited footage, and we can't expect to have them even attempt to provide it until the conflict is over.
Interesting, isn't it?
World News and Features claims to specialize in getting footage delivered from high-threat combat zones to the world's media organizations, and their ace videographer managed to get polished, edited footage of his brother's death in the hands of foreign media organizations within hours of the attack, but now they say we'll have to wait until the war is over to get the kind of raw footage that one would think is their bread-and-butter product.
Fishy?
You don't know the half of it...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:15 PM
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By an amazing coincidence, Senator Chris Dodd said today that he would release his mortgage records detailing all the special deals he received from Countrywide before determining oversight policy on the same firm when "there is an end to financial industry concerns."
I'm glad we can all focus on the important things and leave trivial items like ethics and fraud aside.
Posted by: HatlessHessian at January 13, 2009 12:44 AM (3/V8w)
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Who's betting that the raw footage gets accidentally destroyed in the conflict?
Posted by: sg at January 13, 2009 08:01 AM (GC9OO)
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sg: I think you mean "accidentally", do you not?
Posted by: Stoutcat at January 13, 2009 08:43 AM (kKdtK)
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How is it that Martin can get an edit from Gaza but not the original? I'll lay 10:1 odds that it's because of the evil Joooos.
Posted by: Pablo at January 13, 2009 08:47 AM (yTndK)
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You mean this Shifa Hospital in Gaza?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
snip:
Hamas leaders hiding in basement of Israel-built hospital in Gaza
Senior Hamas officials in Gaza are hiding out in a "bunker" built by Israel, intelligence officials suspect: Many are believed to be in the basements of the Shifa Hospital complex in Gaza City, which was refurbished during Israel's occupation of the Gaza Strip.
Posted by: LH at January 13, 2009 09:11 AM (JV/az)
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Now let me see if I understand this. It's easier for someone inside Gaza to edit down a video and send it out instead of just streaming the whole thing out in the first place to a facility with better editing equipment that has the additional advantage of not being in a war zone?
Posted by: Rob at January 13, 2009 09:17 AM (tWdSj)
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Leave Martin alone. It takes time to make a sequel to a movie. It takes a lot more time to remake a movie. What takes the longest time is remaking a FAKED movie with missing parts filled in. They can't just shoot new stuff and put it in the original. They might have to do the whole thing all over again with the new script.
If they do, they have to make sure each actor says and acts just like they did the first time. There cold be many retakes. Nobody likes to see a movie that was just thrown together. Let Martin have all the time he needs to get his remade move just right. It will be worth the weight. I promise.
Posted by: Smorgasbord at January 13, 2009 06:32 PM (KFqCO)
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Joe the Plumber in Israel
Pajamas Media published a pair of articles today about Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher (a.k.a. "Joe the Plumber"
going to Israel for ten days to talk to Israelis and provide commentary for PJTV. I wrote the pro-Joe article three days ago; Jazz Shaw wrote the anti-Joe article since then.
In my post, I don't think I made any unreasonable demands of the man whom admirers like to refer to as "JTP."
I’m not expecting Pyle's humanizing folksiness, nor Yon's gritty incisiveness, nor Crane's vivid imagery from Wurzelbacher. I don't know if he can craft a coherent sentence or conduct an revealing interview. And perhaps he'll be an absolute disaster as a journalist, even as he's created a PR explosion for PJTV.
But there is an obvious fear among so many members of the media so defensively and preemptively dismissive of "Joe the Plumber" trying his hand at reporting. Deep inside, they must wonder if an Ohio plumber could really be much worse than the so-called professionals we already have. There lies the fear that underlies those mocking Wurzelbacher in the media. It is a bruise to their egos when they realize that almost anyone can do what they do.
Since writing that post, Joe hasn't dazzled the world as a reporting prodigy, and has most recently been mocked today for telling a group of reporters that the media
should be banned from reporting the conflict he was sent to report on:
"I think media should be abolished from, you know, reporting," Wurzelbacher said. "You know, war is hell. And if you're gonna sit there and say, 'well, look at this atrocity,' well you don't know the whole story behind it half the time, so I think the media should have no business in it."
The media, of course, lapped up Wurzelbacher's comment with great glee and held it up as if it were their vindication. I'm not sure it was, as there are good reasons to ban journalists from war zones on occasion.
While an outright ban on media coverage is generally considered undemocratic and is certainly unpopular in a culture told we should have access to almost any thing at any time, the simple fact of the matter is that irresponsible and often ignorant just-in-time journalism endangers combatants and civilians, and far too often reports completely false information as undisputed fact.
This conflict is no different.
Certain heavily-biased Middle eastern and European journalists have castigated Israel for using illegal incendiaries against civilians. It turns out those "illegal incendiaries" are quite legal 155mm M825A1 shells
used to create smoke screens.
An aid organization temporarily stopped shipments of food and medical supplies into Gaza based upon definitive claims reported by the media that an Israeli tank targeted and shot at one of their trucks with a tank shell, killing the driver. Days later, after many came to accept this as fact, it was revealed that tank fire was not involved in the death of the driver, and that
Hamas sharpshooters armed with rifles may have killed him.
Two news organizations—CNN and Channel 4—
uncritically reported the claims of a Palestinian cameraman who stated his brother and cousin were killed by an IDF drone that fired a missile at them as the played on a rooftop. That no known missiles could cause the cartoonishly minimal damage shown on the rooftop, and that critics in the medical field quickly denouced the CPR performed on the boy in the hospital by a known propagandist dcotor as poorly pantomimed fakery, is buried by both networks, who defend the footage created by a cameraman who was later determined to have ties to Hamas.
France 2 is the
latest to fake journalism, airing footage they claimed was from Israeli attacks, when the carnage aired actually come from a blast caused by Palestinian militants in 2005.
Another news organization can't tell the difference between dropping flares and dropping bombs. One pathic professional that reports from the region can't tell the difference between
airplanes and helicopters.
So perhaps Joe the Plumber may turn out to be not much more than a media stunt. If so, he may still be more of a success if simply for causing less damage than our so-called professionals.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
06:37 PM
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Any reporter assigned to file stories from a war zone should have, at a minimum, two years' experience in the active duty military. They would then at least have a framework that would give them a clue on what they're reporting about.
In some cases, even when facts are patiently explained to them, reporters "go with their gut" and simply report falsehoods. With a degree of military service, they could no longer claim ignorance as an excuse.
Posted by: Just Askin' at January 12, 2009 07:48 PM (esv00)
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The lapdogs are petrified. It may not be Joe, but soon someone is going to demonstrate that "journalists" are not doing their jobs. And haven't been for decades.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at January 12, 2009 09:58 PM (E+pG/)
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To read my commentary on Joe the Plumber, please go to this link: http://www.marymacelveen.com/blog/_archives/2009/1/13/4055174.html
Thank you,
Mary MacElveen!
Posted by: Mary MacElveen at January 13, 2009 02:18 AM (I4yBD)
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It may not be Joe, but soon someone is going to demonstrate that "journalists" are not doing their jobs.
Yon, Totten, Roggio and others have been doing that for years.
France 2 is the latest to fake journalism, airing footage they claimed was from Israeli attacks, when the carnage aired actually come from a blast caused by Palestinian militants in 2005.
France 2 also perpetrated the Mohammed al-Dura fraud back in 2000. Old habits die hard, especially when you're not trying to kill them.
Posted by: Pablo at January 13, 2009 08:51 AM (yTndK)
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I like JTP. I think his comment was meant to rankle when he said they should be banned from reporting. He was saying if they are that terrible at their jobs, and are just promoting propaganda and lies - that's not what the "free press" even means. I'm sure he would not be for banning them in fact - he's just saying they are so awful they should be banned - like the ultimate put down of how terrible of a job they are doing in providing comfort to the enemy.
They're no different than "Hanoi Jane" or whatever they called her the way they're doing their jobs over there. That's how I took it - not as a literal - but the ultimate show of disgust. He's raised my interest level and I think he'll be a sensation.
Posted by: l at January 13, 2009 11:28 AM (KquNY)
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"It is a bruise to their egos when they realize that almost anyone can do what they do."
It's not that almost anyone can do what they do, it's that almost anyone can do it better.
Posted by: Tom the Barbarian at January 13, 2009 12:13 PM (Poz+V)
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January 09, 2009
CNN Digs In On Israeli Airstrike Fraud
CNN is insisting that the story it aired of a Palestinian videographer filming his younger brothers death is entirely legitimate:
There's no truth to accusations by bloggers that a Palestinian camera crew staged a video showing the death of the videographer's brother after an Israeli rocket attack, said the team's employer.
"It's absolute nonsense," Paul Martin, co-owner of World News and Features, said of accusations leveled by bloggers at videographer Ashraf Mashharawi.
"He's a man of enormous integrity and would never get involved with any sort of manipulation of images, let alone when the person dying is his own brother," Martin said. "I know the whole family. I know them very well. ... [Mashharawi] is upset and angry that anyone would think of him having done anything like this. ... This is ridiculous. He's independent."
Raafat Hamdouna, administrative director at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, said Friday that "Mahmoud Khalil Mashharawi, a 12-year-old, was brought to the hospital, and he was breathing, but he was hit in the head and all over his body by shrapnel. He died later in the hospital. He was treated by the Norwegian team. When he was brought in, he was breathing. The team did their best to save him. I am not really sure if they even tried to rush him to the surgery room, because he was badly hurt."
This is CNN's evidence?
Martin is the co-owner of the news company that employees the videographer; he has an intense vested interest in maintaining the credibility and reputation of his company and employees at all costs.
And precisely
what kind of news World News & Features produce [h/t
Snapped Shot]?
WORLD NEWS & FEATURES is a unique specialist news and features provider, in the print, audio and video media, specialising in CONFLICT ZONES.
It specialises in high-quality and impeccably-researched content.
It only provides the material to non-competing clients. Under its unique system, each PREMIER CLIENT can brand the material as "From Our Own Correspondent" or "From ABC - Special to ..." or some other agreed wording.
A PREMIER CLIENT can also commission the writing, filming or broadcast of specific stories relevant to that clients region, city or specialised interest.
Premium clients can commission the writing filming, and broadcast of specific stories. Commissioned news, sold at a premium. Isn't that another name for mercenary propaganda?
If so, I wonder who commissioned these... or if they were done pro bono.
HAMAS ALLIES PREPARE FOR RENEWED CONFLICT
ROCKET MEN OF GAZA
DYING TO SMASH ISRAEL WALL SAYS HAMAS
RESIST, SAYS HAMAS ARMED WING
Martin is trusted by Hamas on at least a professional level, and has a financial stake in the credibility of his employee's story. Neither of these conflicts of interest were disclosed by CNN, for the rather obvious reasons it undermines their claim of the story's credibility.
And then there is the apparent discrepancy between the injuries claimed by hospital adminstrator Raafat Hamdouna and the lack of evidence of such wounds in the video footage.
Hamdouna claimed:
"Mahmoud Khalil Mashharawi, a 12-year-old, was brought to the hospital, and he was breathing, but he was hit in the head and all over his body by shrapnel."
The video shot by Ashraf Mashharawi does not seem to support this claim.
While a frame-by-frame analysis shows a possible gash on the lower leg and what may be evidence of blood localized on the lower trunk, there is no evidence of any wound to the head or upper body.
Others that have been following this story also find CNN's affirmation of this story's credibility less than credible, including
Charles Johnson and
Ed Morrissey.
CNN has also yet to explain what kind of Israeli drone could have fired the purported missile, and what kind of missile would cause the minimal damage shown on the rooftop where it is claimed these boys were killed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:09 PM
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In the burial scene, the "blood" on the sheet is still bright red. If any time at all had passed between the death and burial, the blood should have darkened.
I also doubt the "missile" argument as the damage does not look very extensive.
Posted by: Harold Morris at January 09, 2009 11:24 PM (q4Mt4)
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CNN'S COURSE OF ACTION IS PAR FOR THE COURSE.
THEY LIED FOR SADDAM.
AND DID THE SAME BS RE: AL DURA AND JENINGRAD AND THE LEBANON WAR.
THEY'RE NOT OBJECTIVE; THEY'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE.
Posted by: reliapundit at January 09, 2009 11:37 PM (Hhqr7)
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Why wouldn’t it be real? Is it really that hard to believe? He just wanted to show us a glimpse of reality. do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child. Its not like thats the only child reported to have been killed.
these types of massacres have been happing for the past 14 days, look at the UN School that was blown and all the children that died, and no evidence has been put forward that missiles or any terrorist where in the area, it the UN for Gods Sake and they blew it up. IDF did the same to a UN Shelter in Lebanon, Remember Qana, Lebanon, and nothing was done nor was it condemned. It was just an "unfortunate incident"
Posted by: Simon at January 09, 2009 11:57 PM (GJzC1)
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"do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child."
Yes. Because they've done it quite a few times before.
"look at the UN School that was blown and all the children that died, and no evidence has been put forward that missiles or any terrorist where in the area"
You really should pay better attention. The AP cited witnesses who saw Hamas thugs in the area; I believe the report was they fired one of the unguided rockets they're so fond of.
And, yes, "unfortunate incidents" happen. Particularly when a military that attempts to avoid civilian casualties is forced to fight thugs who benefit from civilian casualties whether they're Israeli, Lebanese, Palestinian, Egyptian, or Jordanian. The thugs fire from behind women and children -- it's the fault of the thugs that the women and children are caught in the crossfire.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 10, 2009 12:09 AM (Bpq+O)
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Yea just like the Hamas rocket fire sites are staged.
Posted by: Tupac at January 10, 2009 12:15 AM (Tqe7s)
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do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child. Its not like thats the only child reported to have been killed.
Absolutely they have the time, reason and motivation.
Sadly, civilians are always killed in wars and children are among those civilians. I readily concede those dozens of people under the age of 18 must have died in this current conflict, despite the best efforts of the IDF to limit themselves to legitimate military targets (Hamas has no such limitations, and in fact triggered this war by targeting civilians).
But dead children, however sad, are not motivating enough without context. there have been dozens of grisly wire service photos of dead children that sell well in the Arab and Muslim press to gin up outrage against Israel, but those photos are not as frequently printed in western media, and so a human touch is needed.
This particular tragic story was apparently manufactured to hit just those personal notes to generate anger by personalizing the loss, while ignoring the gore that turns on a bloodthirsty media in more crude parts of the world.
Palestinians have been manufacturing the fake deaths of children and attributing them to the Israelis for decades to fit media specific purposes. This story was crafted because it fit a need in Hamas' media strategy, which is all it has left going for it at this time.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 10, 2009 12:15 AM (HcgFD)
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CNN should ask Dr Sanjay Gupta if those chest compressions are real or not. They are bogus. The defense given by Martin does not address this at all.
Posted by: Charles128 at January 10, 2009 12:26 AM (0Qm2L)
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Its not like thats the only child reported to have been killed.
Are you saying "fake, but accurate" might be in play here?
do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child.
I think that a) the 'journalist' involved carries a camera and films stuff for a living. So he has time, and the skill, and b) there is a rich tradition of 'fauxtography' coming from arab war zones, so there are reasons to be skeptical.
No one is questioning the fact that children are killed in conflicts like this one. News outlets presented this story as being especially poignant, and somehow representative of Israeli barbarity. People noticed, very quickly, that technical details seemed wrong. The way the CPR was being done did not look right to people who would know the difference.
The story is moving. No one argued otherwise. But it becomes infuriating if, under examination, it turns out to have been faked.
Let me be explicit: No one gets automatic credibility, and no one is above question. The facts are what matter, and these were conveniently recorded so that they can be examined. Any outrage at the attempt to determine whether this piece of reportage is real is not likely sincere, but rather, an attempt to shame us in to not looking. Well, nonsense. We'll look, and we'll say so if something looks fishy.
Posted by: Dave Eaton at January 10, 2009 12:28 AM (HsLsb)
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do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child.
You should do standup because THAT was funny!
Oh...you were serious?
Posted by: Saint Patton at January 10, 2009 12:38 AM (9v34C)
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What kind of missiles that caused minimal damages? Glad you ask.
1st generation missiles: Hitler's rockets hitting Great Britain indiscriminately causing a lot of collateral damages.
2nd generation: American missiles, somewhat more precise, but still had uh-oh moments when something other than the targets were hit, and caused some collateral damages.
3rd generation: American smart missiles, those used to pulverize Osama in his cave. They could hit Saddam's house, not killing him.
4th generation: Israeli missiles which are so precise that the Jews use specifically to target small children, the smaller the better, leaving everything else intact. The Jews also use smart bullets that zig-zag and turn corners to hit young children. They used that to kill Al Dura, another 12 years old.
Posted by: ic at January 10, 2009 12:46 AM (NM7Uv)
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I do believe the UN as a fairly impartial group saying that large numbers of civilians have been killed since it was a resolution by the UN that created this situation 60 years ago. The outrage from the International Red Cross cannot be easily dismissed either since that group is known to be highly impartial as well as doing more work behind the scenes.
Also, why is my comment blocked due to questionable content, and why does it not show what error to correct? This seems like some kind of censorship. I will try to post the first part of my post since it is the only relevant part to the actual article.
Posted by: Alex at January 10, 2009 12:56 AM (IVwK4)
12
What they need is Hizbollah's Green Helmet guy to lend them credibilities.
Posted by: ic at January 10, 2009 12:57 AM (NM7Uv)
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The cardiopulmonary resuscitation is faked. Cardiac compressions are not forceful enough to be effective and are too rapid. No attempt is made at pulmonary ventilation. The physician on the left, who I believe is a plastic surgeon, would have been insuring an airway and either bagging or performing mouth to mouth resuscitation if this were real.
Posted by: SIMdoc at January 10, 2009 01:04 AM (Xw+xA)
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As an ER physician who watched the footage carefully, I can tell you that the event is either staged, or that medical team has absolutely no idea how to perform CPR and otherwise resuscitate a patient.
Based on watching the video, I believe that most likely the former is true, i.e., it is theatre.
Posted by: dbr1 at January 10, 2009 01:10 AM (XZbBy)
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Okay, so I have what I feel to be a legitimate comment actually relating to the post, but for whatever reason this site seems to censor me. I basically said that the IDF should let independent journalists in according to their supreme court's ruling. This would provide at least a bit more impartiality and prevent propaganda films from being released as news.
Posted by: Alex at January 10, 2009 01:11 AM (IVwK4)
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why is my comment blocked due to questionable content, and why does it not show what error to correct. This seems like some kind of censorship.
Uh, of course it is 'some sort of censorship'. It is a content filter...
My earlier comment didn't pass muster until I removed the initials of the Chicken Noodle Network. I see that they passed in at least one case above, so the algorithm must be complex.
Posted by: Dave Eaton at January 10, 2009 01:12 AM (HsLsb)
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"but for whatever reason this site seems to censor me."
It's the Jooooos, they're everywhere.
The clicking sound on your window at night, that's not the wind, it's a Jew Claw.
The strange noise from your basement, a Jew sneaking up to snatch your children.
The shadows arching over your wall at night....Jews coming to steal your blood.
Then again, maybe the content filter or whatever just thinks you're an idiot.
Posted by: Riggs at January 10, 2009 01:19 AM (9v34C)
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Watch the video and decide. Was it done by;
1. A professional news organization.
2. Two doctors with a webcam.
3. Andrew Sachs and a bad mime.
4. The Muppets.
5. The Onion
6. Pravda.
7. Baghdad Bob and his All-Night Newsboys.
8. Cable News Network.
My money's on number eight.
Posted by: What I Think at January 10, 2009 01:22 AM (+loVH)
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Simon, can you be seriously this naive? Oh, and about that UN school, check out this video from Jan 6, 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JNQk2gbROk&feature=related
Posted by: Thripshaw at January 10, 2009 01:54 AM (MCyBl)
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"As an ER physician who watched the footage carefully, I can tell you that the event is either staged, or that medical team has absolutely no idea how to perform CPR and otherwise resuscitate a patient." Well, you know, we are dealing with the typical competence associated with non-Israeli Middle-Easterners. . .
Posted by: Brooks at January 10, 2009 02:18 AM (7nelD)
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To Cubanbob: I was a full-on supporter of Israel... really a Zionist... until I worked in the West Bank for 9 months in 05-06. It was there that I witnessed what I could never have believed to be true about the occupation. It culminated in my last month when, after 8 months of nightly incursions by the IDF, leaving my patients (90% women and children) traumatized, I witnessed for myself how Israeli soldiers used a 16 year old girl as a human shield in a military "operation" on the street where I lived. I would not have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. How sad that the oppressed have now become the oppressors! I believe the children of Sderot and Ashkelon are now terrorized by the violence they have experienced. Multiply that by thousands of people and decades of time and you have the Palestinians.... enough hatred to fuel another generation or two of violence... on both sides!
Posted by: Jan at January 10, 2009 03:58 AM (mEui2)
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"do you really think anyone in Gaza has the time and reason to make up and fake a death of a child."
I am completely sympathetic to your sympathy, but your impression that everyone in Gaza is too busy running around saving lives is a little naive. Here's proof:
Look at the missiles still being fired into Israel. There is no defensive purpose to this whatsoever. It has no offensive purpose against IDF either. It is purely a symbolic gesture of defiance, one that is not only totally useless for the immediate combat at hand, but is actually counterproductive, since it only provokes Israel to keep fighting, which in turn will only continue to increase Palestinian casualties. Hamas know this. And yet there they are, coming out into the open and risking their lives to do it, all the same.
You and I would want to save the lives of our own people, so it's natural to assume everyone would behave the same way. But Hamas has a different set of priorities. The evidence is right in front of you.
Posted by: John at January 10, 2009 04:09 AM (r+jvD)
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It is a big shame that in this day and age we allow our biases to colour our fair judgment as humans.Granted that war can never be fought clean but due consideration should always be given to the weak and defenseless(women and children). The porpoted use of human shield by Hamas, if true, is rather unfortunate but that does not in any way confer legitimacy on the actions of the IDF to fire blindly and waste the lives of these people.The moral burden still lies with he who pulls the trigger.And the fact that this story repeats itself at every turn of this long running conflict is enough for the world to feel concerned.
The view by some that the UN is a worthless collection of countries is rather unfair. Was it not through an instrument of this same body that the state of Israel was established?
Posted by: Bayo at January 10, 2009 04:15 AM (Y05wH)
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the palestian get what thay deserver thay stand by and let hamas fire rockets at israel knowing that israel will fire back at hamas so what ever happens to the palestian people thay deserver it
Posted by: rob at January 10, 2009 04:32 AM (iiqMT)
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Jan:
I am sorry to hear about your experience, but those soldiers were undisciplined and did not reflect Israel society as a whole. In 2005, the Israeli Supreme Court banned the use of civilians as human shields by the IDF. After criminal investigations, those military officers responsible for allowing this tactic were censured.
Bayo:
The moral burden does lie with the one who pulls the trigger, but when the one who pulls the trigger is under constant threat of attack, the allowable margin for error must be expanded considerably. I've noticed that people who condemn the casualty rate seem to think that Israel should fight with more reserve, and thus be willing to sacrifice a few of its soldiers if that means saving the lives of many more of the enemy's civilians.
This is preposterous. Israeli soldiers are people's kids too, and their government must value and protect their lives first. It is not just entitled to do so, it has a moral obligation to its citizens to do so.
Posted by: John at January 10, 2009 04:54 AM (r+jvD)
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Given the influx of anti-Israeli trolls, and in the spirit of hope and change *gag*, I'd like to provide a summary of everything they've said thus far. That way, everyone else can just skip over what they've said and move on to better things.
"blah blah blah you're all Nazis blah blah kill the Jews blah blah allahu ackbar blah blah i like rabbits blah."
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at January 10, 2009 05:14 AM (HG6DM)
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I am reminded of reports from Somalia when the Ethiopian army went in there.
Somalis attacked the Ethiopians with the tactics that they had used against US and UN troops i.e. they would send a group of Somali women and children down the street and then Somali men with AK-47s would fire at the American or UN soldiers from the rear of the crowd.
The Ethiopians, who have been dealing with Somalis for more than a thousand years, were amused. The Ethiopians reported that hiding behind women and children was not a particularly effective tactic since the bullets the Ethiopians fired can go right through the bodies of the women and children to hit the Somali gunmen.
Posted by: Gilligan at January 10, 2009 06:21 AM (TX6eJ)
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CNN is hokey ~ Lazy journalism.... they are part of the 60's culture that lack the hard work and integrity of the 50's.... G-d help us now !
Posted by: Mark at January 10, 2009 06:34 AM (JAT+/)
29
I have seen hate ... but hate like this amazes me. WoW. One hates the Jews and the other hates the Arabs and one hates the children and women. I give up on humanity. Jesus Moses .. Mohammad ...
I give up ...
Posted by: Moe at January 10, 2009 07:16 AM (rXuj8)
30
When was the last time an Israeli went into a religious party and blew himself up? Likewise, when was the last time an Israeli blew him/herself up in a restaurant crowded with innocent diners, or a school, or a Jet plane or two, or three? When you live in a culture of death and violence you may understand what the Israelis face every day since 1947. Every day. It's now pay back time for these murderers.
Posted by: George Hussein at January 10, 2009 07:54 AM (f6hWj)
31
it all goes back to simple politics. if israel treated there neighbors with respect i would bet my house that rockets would rain down no more.
One must relieze hamas isn't firing the rockets for the hell of it. they didn't wake up one morning and decide out of the blue to fire off a few rockets. no, it's built up rage they are angry at israeli politics.
Posted by: alex pawel at January 10, 2009 08:22 AM (/aRm/)
32
As a surgeon I have to agree the resuscitation efforts shown on the video are either completely inept or staged.
More concerning, the boy's body could be real, having been cleaned up after his death. This was purportedly a Norwegian hospital and the physician on the left is Norwegian apparently. Using a dead child's body as a prop in a charade filmed for propaganda purposes, especially when "CPR" is performed, is highly unethical for any physician. Furthermore, it borders on desecration of the body.
The Norwegian Board of Medicine should be informed of this physician's incompetent, or more likely unethical, behavior.
Posted by: TLM at January 10, 2009 08:48 AM (VOL2j)
33
"Why wouldn’t it be real? Is it really that hard to believe?"
Possible = True. Welcome to Libthink.
Posted by: Jim Treacher at January 10, 2009 09:03 AM (cvmgB)
34
Are these the same people dancing in the streets after 9/11, and were is the money for all these guns caming from????
Posted by: Giovanni at January 10, 2009 09:16 AM (AYhe6)
35
CNN should not allow itself to be used for propaganda.It should stick to its primary purpose... Report the news truthfully and objectively. It not establish a mind set for its viewers. Sooner and later the people will know... and the company network would suffer terribly. My advice: Wake up and stay true to the basic foundation of journalism.
Posted by: JIM FESTIN at January 10, 2009 09:17 AM (crD4t)
36
Palistinians...Get away from the terrorist. Use the heads that God gave you and get away from those Madmen.
I have seen suicide children, AK47 tote children and the fanatical parents who use there children as shields. I ran away and crossed the border to get out...I'll never go back..never.
Those people are not human to see what they have done to my family. The muslim people are brainwashed...I'll never return home.never.
Posted by: Jay MK johnson at January 10, 2009 09:31 AM (svozh)
37
i always marvel at the selective amnesia a lot of folks suffer from every time this issue of this isreal and palestine's fright comes up!
i am yet to read of a time when the isrealis wakes up one day and starts a fight! how come all the days hamas has been blasting away at isreal we all forgot to condemn thier actions and the moment isreal decides to fight back the whole world starts to condemn isreal from east to west!
are we truthful with ourselves? what would we do if hamas decides our homes are the next desination of thier rockets?
maybe we would advice ourself to remain calm and appeal fopr peace! i wonder!
Posted by: archie at January 10, 2009 09:36 AM (/ZZh5)
38
It isn't complicated. Stop firing rockets and mortars into a legally established nation in an attempt to kill their citizens or learn to love the response you are getting.
Posted by: Fred Beloit at January 10, 2009 09:40 AM (ulKU8)
39
I absolutely hate to see deaths on either side of the conflict. Seriously. But I echo what others are thankfully saying.
Palestinians! If you want peace quit electing terrorists (HAMAS) to lead your government. Tell them to quit firing rockets into a legal nation. Grow up and live in peace with those different than you like the majority of others on this earth and your life will be a lot happier!
Posted by: Doji Ahmad at January 10, 2009 10:07 AM (YgL5H)
40
Operation "Tail Wind" starring Peter Arnett ,aka
Baghdad Pete, again.
Posted by: luke at January 10, 2009 10:27 AM (nF+Fm)
41
Was this the best coverage of the carnage going on in this region? With as much carnage that is being reported in print, one would imagine there would be dozens of such incidents to photograph or videotape. Are the camera personnel hiding in the tunnels? course, that may explain why those boys were on the roof, instead of hiding.
Posted by: Rickz66 at January 10, 2009 10:32 AM (+/SRs)
42
Should the USA continue to acknowledge as veracity the Palestinian propaganda, woe to the country that wars with Israel.
Posted by: William H at January 10, 2009 10:33 AM (x0fD8)
43
If the Israeli's would have a nice party near a beautiful brook with birds chirping and sit down with hamus and serve tea and cookies then everything would be wonderful and everybody would be able to get along and be happy. Hamas would complain that Israel didn't serve humas. I believe they are beginning to eat themselves up now. The Israeli's are brilliant.
Posted by: Mack Jenson at January 10, 2009 10:48 AM (Bl9+Y)
44
Ok, Sam, that would be when they left the fully-functioning greenhouses behind? That the palistinians trashed, rather than used?
Gaza embargo... wasn't that when they got tirede of the brave palis sending women and children with bombs to murder people in restaurants and hospitals? Same reason they built the fence that clowns like you refer to as a 'war crime'?
Posted by: Firehand at January 10, 2009 11:02 AM (GAf+S)
45
Ignoring the relatively minor matter of the goal of wiping Israel out and killing Jews in the Hamas charter, what evidence have any of the brainwashed libtards produced that Hamas actually wants to live in peace with Israel. What solurions do they propose to the conflict except of course more concessions by Israel, which have worked so well for Israel over time. Liberalism is indeed a mental disease.
Posted by: daleyrocks at January 10, 2009 11:40 AM (odYIP)
46
It is rather unfortunate that children are getting hit in the battle of Gaza, but isn't it wishful thinking to assume that a war of this magnitude will take place without any one recording any casuality from the children population. Truth is, it does not matter if the people killed were children of adults-they were just victims of circumstance that were caught up in a cross fire of a war brought upon them by a cowardly and murderous terrorist organization that chose to use a civilian population as an armor chest plate in a war that they precipitated.
Posted by: ikeri chukwudi at January 10, 2009 11:49 AM (tdeSR)
47
these people have been milking the world for the last 60 years, not enoufgh to eat, but they seem
to have enoufgh money for ARMS. they thrive when they parade DEAD women & children for the worlds sympaty they are EXPERTS at PR( AS WITNESSED
IN JERICHO THE MASSACRE WHEN THEY CARRIED A DEAD MAN ON A STRETCHER WHEN HE FELL OF AND HE ROSE TO RUN AFTER THE STRETCHER TO GET BACK ON)look at derfur when they claim to be undernourished look at the children & women with bones portruding, how much help is given to these people? yet these bloodsuckers continue to milk the world for sympathy and no matter how much is given it seems like a bottomless pit.
Posted by: mayer at January 10, 2009 12:48 PM (bmea0)
48
Israel has the ability to erase all of Gaza in
a matter of hours without taking any casualties itself. Instead they choose to go in on the ground to minimise the "collateral damage" to the innocent population, risking a significant
potential loss to it's troops. Hamas leadership
in turn, is safe and sound in Damascus, Beirut and Teheran willing to fight to the last woman and child of Gaza. How brave, indeed.
Posted by: paisan at January 10, 2009 12:53 PM (nOJOx)
49
Hamas illegally occupies Gaza. They took it, violently, from the Palestinian Authority and they still continue to bitch about Israel and their "illegal occupation"? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Posted by: ScooterGirl at January 10, 2009 12:57 PM (QmUel)
50
Let's see, collateral damage, surgical strikes, what language would Americans be speaking now if Pres. Truman was worried about that when Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed. Yeah, right he only got military personnel.
Posted by: geminiG at January 10, 2009 12:57 PM (GlqN7)
51
I say to hell with these fanatical Islamic Hamas. Sawing off peeps heads with swords. Bombing buses. How revolting these sickos must be. No regards for life and their 72 virgin brides that await them.
TO HELL WITH THEM.
Israelis ought to do what is neccessary and finnish these cockroaches off for good! Give Iran a taster of what is to come too, wouldn't go amiss either imho!
Posted by: Dave J at January 10, 2009 01:05 PM (o7bbw)
52
It's funny how many comments are on this thread condeming the Israeli response to terrorist activity. Many of these are probably the same people that claimed the border fences would not prevent homocide bombings in Israel (yet these have been significantly reduced since their creation).
Throughout it's history, Israel has always acted in self-defense. In 1948, they fought for their right to exist when they were attacked by the Arab world. Both Arabs and Jews fought on the side of Israel to protect their nation. In 1967, Israel was attacked again. Both Arabs and Jews fought in this short conflict and achieved an overwhelming victory. In 1973, Israel was attacked again and achieved another dramatic victory - with both Arabs and Jews in their military.
The PLO and Hamas have both carried the goal of killing the Jews by driving them into the sea. They claim "Palestine" as theirs - yet the word Palestine comes from Syria et al Palestina, which was the Roman name given to this area when it was under their control. Later the Ottoman Turks took over and lost control of the area to the British in WWI. In history, the Arabs have never controlled Palestine, creating a great hoax where a race is created out of a lie. These people have been used as tools to fight the Jews and eliminate them from the Middle East. They were granted Trans-Jordan for the Arab population. In 1948, they were granted another Arab property in Palestine, yet this was again not good enough.
As long as these people continue to preach hatred and destruction, they should not be surprised when they face the consequences of their actions. Israel doesn't teach their children to hate, yet the other side does (just watch Palestinian TV or read one of their text books). Until ordinary citizens stand up and realized that they are being victimized by their own beliefs and not by the Jews, the Catholics or any other race or creed, we can expect these types of conflicts to continue. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Queda, et al must be eliminated to ensure the safety of those that do not follow extreme Islamic principles. Until they stand up and refuse to be used by these groups, a live in the same areas they use to attack from, everyone in those areas are at risk.
For America, 9/11 was an attack on our civilians and the Palestinians celebrated. For Britain 7/7 was an attack on their civilians, and the Palestinians celebrated. For Israel, these rocket attacks are indescriminate attacks on their civilians, and the Palestinians continue to celebrate these attacks and support the murderers that launch these rockets. If you are a Palestinian and you truly want peace, remove these monsters from your collective society and ignore the hate they preach. Until then, Israel will have to begin the process of removing them and defending their God given right to live in their homeland, in peace.
Posted by: jjwspider at January 10, 2009 01:09 PM (x5dSR)
53
CNN run a propaghanda piece? NO! Surely not lmao, after this "election" we just had there's not a broadcasting news agency left in USA with the exception of FOX and a few smaller networks, that has ANY credibility what so ever. Go to Newsbusters(dot)com and Honestreporting(dot)com, They been showing us for a long time the decietfullness and tactics they use, see for yourselves the lop-sided reporting that goes on in Nbc,Cbs,Abc,AP,Msnbc and more. They are anti-jew,america,God and anti-capitolist's There's No Credibility in USA's Journalist's, NONE. Want real news? Go to WND (World Net Daily), VOA, or Haaretz Daily Newspaper to name a few. We (dont even watch the mainstream news or Propaghanda Networks as I call them. They pride themselves in "forming public opinion" rather than "informing the public". Very few "real Journalist's" are left in America, Very few.
Posted by: Vince at January 10, 2009 01:11 PM (i4Fy3)
54
BTW - anyone looking for a clear example of bias in the news media, search for Tuvia Grossman. He was a victim of Palestinian agression during the first intifada and had his picture posted across the world a being a bloodied victim of Israel. He did an article on aish(dot)com a while back to explain what happened to him and how the picture affected him as he became a propaganda piece for the Palestinians.
http://www.aish(dot)com/jewishissues/israeldiary/Victim_of_the_Media_War.asp
Posted by: jjwspider at January 10, 2009 01:26 PM (x5dSR)
55
Israel has the ability to erase all of Gaza in
a matter of hours without taking any casualties itself. Instead they choose to go in on the ground to minimise the "collateral damage" to the innocent population, risking a significant
potential loss to it's troops. Hamas leadership
in turn, is safe and sound in Damascus, Beirut and Teheran willing to fight to the last woman and child of Gaza. How brave, indeed.
Well said, I have been saying that for YEARS!
Posted by: Mikael at January 10, 2009 01:29 PM (cH4Yh)
56
Posted by gabe barkoczi at January 10, 2009 12:11 PM
That's you Ron Paul, isn't it? Welcome to the board Congressman.
Posted by: daleyrocks at January 10, 2009 01:29 PM (odYIP)
57
Steve, why write a book in a blog? Trust me, if you gotta write that much to get your point across, then maybe the point your trying to make is wrong? These Palistinians are the same "Philistines" that the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob said to destroy completely back when God gave them the land of Canaan (modern day Israel) after he brought them up out of the land of Egypt. God knew these people would never stop making trouble, knew they would never be satisfied living in peace with his people. Thats why he said to kill them ALL. But the Israelites got lazy and left a remnant in outlying towns, these trouble makers are the decendants of those Philistines. Israel is doing the right thing and it's not by desire, they have No Choice. Theres going to be casualties of war in any battle.
Posted by: vince at January 10, 2009 01:41 PM (i4Fy3)
58
Vote for a terrorist organization to run your country and than be surprised by what they cause to happen? Looks to me like you get what you asked for?
Posted by: Frank Gumbaza at January 10, 2009 01:50 PM (VWG23)
59
George Hussein:
Great to hear an ARAB who has some common sense!!! Your a little off though! The Jews in Israel have been experiencing genocide since the 1930's!!! The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem started the Arab riots in the 30's slaughtering just below 60,000 people (not even half that have died on both sides from 1947 till now). He did it because he wanted the world to know there are no other people living in Palestine except Arabs (although 70%+ of the Palestinian Muslims ARE NOT ARAB!!!). Of course he stil did not kill ALL the indiginous Jews, Non-Arab Christians, and Druze, but he tried. The very fact that the so called Palestinians use that name is racist, as every single inhabitant of Palestine was a Palestinian. There were and still are a large number of Jews in Israel who have an unbroken history in the country from pre-babalonian exile, so only they can claim to be the "Indiginous race of Palestine" as the Philistines were finally decimated by the Asyrians, and King Solomon did a good job on them before that. The Canaanites were wiped out completely and Neither race were ARAB.
The problem as always with any conflict caused by the middle east Arabs is ISLAM regardless of what is said, it is a relligion of hate and murder, anyone who claims otherwise is either a liar or has not studied the Quran and the Hadith along with the accepted Sunni and Shia interpretations. So those who compare the IDF to Nazis are wrong, the NAZIS here are the Palestinians ALL OF THEM!!! They can be compared to both NAZIS and the Japanese culture before the US handled that evil culture, yes the Japanese had a culture of racial supperiority and hate for thoussands of years. When dealing with a lunatic fringe culture NO ONE including women and children need be worried about, as indoctrination starts at 3, and you'd be suprised at how difficult deprogramming and reeducation is even at 5 or 6 years old. Let's also not forget that the so called Palestinians (as the Grand Mufti started that lied) actually were co-architects of Hitler's final solution, the mufti went to young Hitler in the early 1920's to convince him that mass deportation was not enough, and efficient murder on a large scale is required lest the Jews join the indiginous Jews in Palestine and outnumber the Arabs and the Slavic Muslim majority.
Posted by: Moses at January 10, 2009 02:11 PM (5yzGO)
60
Hi, Nazir.If you take some one's land without them giving it to you and you either chase them away or kill them, that is not exactly legal, even if the UN gave a blessing to it, sadly.
Posted by: gabe barkoczi at January 10, 2009 02:15 PM (VCPDU)
61
Gabe, three things....
1. Is the Holocaust the ONLY act of anti-Semitism that you are aware of? If so, then it is no wonder that you don't understand.....
2. Taking someone's land... query me this: at what point will Tibetans lose the right to their homeland? After all, they no longer control it and they are a distinct minority now and decreasing fast due to Chinese policy. So after how many years does the Dalai Lama's rights expire and Chinese imperialism win?
Posted by: AEWHistory at January 10, 2009 02:27 PM (ZNWvf)
62
Azmi - Do some research. Prior to the intifada, the Palestinians enjoyed one of the highest standards of living of any Arab country. This was primarily due to the ability to live in Israel, earn an excellent wage and return to Gaza or the West Bank at night. As a result, the standard of living was higher than that found in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, etc. It wasn't until the intifada began and homocide bombers began killing innocent Israeli's that the Israeli government had to severely limit the jobs available and stop subsidizing the Palestinian way of life. Again though, this standard would have been continued had homocidal maniacs not started a war with Israel.
Posted by: jjwspider at January 10, 2009 02:45 PM (x5dSR)
63
Yes, they do have a drink--it's called Carmel Wine. Gabe--sorry for swearing at you--WOW, I must have a conscience?
Posted by: Nazir at January 10, 2009 02:45 PM (WiV69)
64
Gabe:
When you actualy study the history of Palestine from a reputable NON-Muslim source, you'll find Palestine had a unbroken Jewish population pre-dating the Babalonian exile. Also when the Ottomons brought in the Slavic Muslims who made 70% of the so called Palestinian population in 1947, they also brought in more Jews, Christians, Druze and Bedoins. So NO one took the Palestinians land, they were unwanted Migrant workers brought in by one of the most evil Empires in world history. Don't forget the Ottomons were Pirating, Extorting, and Murdering Eupoeans and Americans for hundreds of years, and when asked why they said because Islam demands that the Infedel be treated in that manner! So much for the BS that this sort of thing is a new concept created by a few extremists who hijacked the "Peaceful" Islam!!!
Posted by: Moses at January 10, 2009 03:00 PM (5yzGO)
65
What happens when a fly falls into a coffee cup?
The Italian - throws the cup, breaks it, and walks away in a fit of rage.
The German - carefully washes the cup, sterilizes it and makes a new cup
of coffee.
The Frenchman - takes out the fly, and drinks the coffee.
The Chinese - eats the fly and throws away the coffee.
The Russian - Drinks the coffee with the fly, since it was extra with no
charge.
The Israeli - sells the coffee to the Frenchman, the fly to the Chinese,
drinks tea and uses the extra money to invent a device that prevents
flies from falling into coffee.
The Palestinian - blames the Israeli for the fly falling in his coffee,
protests the act of aggression to the UN, takes a loan from the European
Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives
and then blows up the coffee house where the Italian, the Frenchman, the
Chinese, the German and the Russian are all trying to explain to the
Israeli that he should give away his cup of tea to the Palestinian.
Posted by: iz at January 10, 2009 03:07 PM (C10fc)
66
Hey Vince:
Acutally NO they are not called Philistines, the Grand Mufti named them that (actually Filistines they call themselves now) in an attempt to associate them with that race so they can claim they are the oldest indiginous race. Only probelm is that we KNOW the Philistines were a violent race who were related to Turks and Greeks, basically a preditor race similiar to the concept of the Alians in the movie Independence Day.
Once that lie backfired there was the Canaanite movement among them to claim they are decendents of the Canaanites, however their pitch was their were NO other races especially NO Jews in Palestine prior to 1947, and in fact the whole idea of Jews in Palestine was manufacutred by the Evil Zionists in Europe in the 1920s. So their Canaanite movement backfired on them as well as it acknowledged an old Jewish presense and that contracdicted the Zionist BS story they still preach today.
The Arab minority of todays Palestinians (they are actually 70%+ Slavic Muslims) are the decendents of Ismael Abrahams son. It says clearly in the Old Testament that this race will be blessed in great numbers, but they will be a violent BEAST LIKE Hoard causing mayhem wherever they go. Not much of a religious zealot myself, but whowever wrote that has them pegged!!!
Posted by: Moses at January 10, 2009 03:11 PM (5yzGO)
67
A Note From The Management
A few things not tolerated here:
profanitycheerleading for the genocide of any groupsock-puppeting, the practice of posting multiple comments under different screen names and email addresses to create fellow commenters that agree with your positionposts that wander far of topicutterly pointless postsposts that are incoherent
I just deleted 37 comments that violated these guidelines, roughly equal, I think from both sides of the equation and few people in the middle.
Most of the commenters on this particular post are "drive-bys" and probably won't be back. That's fine.
For those of you would would like to return to comment upon this article or others, please keep these guidelines in mind.
Thanks,
The MGMT
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 10, 2009 03:32 PM (HcgFD)
68
The roots of this conflict go way back, and the PALs need to wake up and recognize that Israel is there to stay. Accept that reality and peaceably press for an independent Palestinian state. It could have been all so simple.
I was in Israel just a few months ago. Do you know that in the West bank you can sit in an open air coffeshop and have a latte ? I thought to myself of how thing seem to have greatly improved there from just a few years ago. But it was not so in the Gaza.
What offended me recently was an interview with what a very educated and well spoken Palestinian woman linked from Yahoo News(perhaps some of you saw it too). But all she did was lie. She said "It's important to note that the Hamas rockets do not have explosive heads". If that is so (and it is not) then launching those rockets into Israel is truly a stupid gesture. But then, I've seen personally seen the impact sites of those rockets. You don;t need to be an expert to tell that they definitely have exposive heads. Not only that, we found many blackened roofing nails around the impact site. These were obviously placed around the explosive head to become shrapnel.
She claimed that the tunnels were for smuggling food and humanitrian supplies. But, we all saw the IDF films from the F-16 cameras and what happenned when thier missles struck those tunnels. Funny that. I've never seen food and humanitarian aid supplies cause those kinds of secondary explosions (Oh right, that was the medical Isopropyl rubbing alcohol, my bad !! ).
She accused the interviewer of never having been to Gaza. I suppose that she did not do her homework because that interviewer has many times been there and told her so. Eventually he had to just cut her off.
I noted that every single statement she made was either an outright lie or misleading to the extreme. Does she comprehend just how much she damages her own credibility ? Every time I see any interview with here I now must question anything and everything she says. PALs, pick a better representative.
But all things considered, I think that Israel's actions were rash and unwise. All Hamas has to do is to survive and they will declare a victory.(and since most of them are outside of Gaza, you can bet that claim will be made). Sure it might temporarily halt the rocket threat, but they have just assured that there will be another generation of willing PAL militants who will remember all of this.
But on the other hand, what di the Hamas militants expect was going to happen when they resumed full sclate rocket attacks (by the way, for those of you who do not know, Hamas continued to launch rockets into Israel during the truce, just not so frequently. Hamas claimed that these were rogue militants not under their control - Yea right! But then, some Israeli's also violated the truce. But hey, those were rogue Israeli militants also ! See how it works ?
But there is one thing that is certain. Hamas is a roadblock to Palestinian peace and independence. With them in the picture, it will never happen. Given the contrast between life in the West Bank and life in Gaza the right choice should be obvious.
In some ways I do also assogn some responsibility for this to the Gazans. Surely they knew that when they elected Hamas into power that nothing good could possibly have come from it. not only that, they also had to know a vote for Hamas was a vote to greatly multiply their suffering.
If the Gazans want to move forward, have peace and prosperity for their people, they must get rid of Hamas. And they cannot say that n one told them so. They knew what would happen, and did it anyway. and this makes me wonder what is the mindset of the average Gazan.
In conclusion, this action by Israel was a bone-headed move. The Gazans electing Hamas and kicking out the PA was a boneheaded move. Firing rockets into Israel was a boneheaded move.
I have to wonder Is there anyone over there on either side who possess's any inteliigence or clarity of thought.
The Hamas charter calls for the total destruction of Israel, and says that negotiations and truces are a waste of time.
Posted by: Jim at January 10, 2009 03:32 PM (LRyI/)
69
to all the doctors out there maybe you sould do more reading.you see for about a year now we haven't been doing mouth to mouth it is not needed only the chest conpressions.thought you should know doc and how can you tell a plastic surgen from a er doctor from a picture i'm impressed NOT
Posted by: joe ny at January 10, 2009 03:39 PM (n38LG)
70
Joe, having been a paramedic for 17+ years, I can't tell a plastic surgeon from an ER doc, but I can tell a real code from a fake one. For any number of reasons, I am not buying into this one.
Posted by: Mikael at January 10, 2009 04:07 PM (cH4Yh)
71
THANK YOU FOR THE CHANCE TO VOICE MY OPION. thank you for deleting my opion.guess it was to much for you think about.peace be with you
Posted by: JOE NY at January 10, 2009 04:20 PM (n38LG)
72
mikael thank you i dont know codes or any of that med stuff. just know we dont blow in the mouth any more to save a life
Posted by: joe ny at January 10, 2009 04:25 PM (n38LG)
73
A pox on all houses of fanaticism! The historical mythbusters should have a go at this - The idea of a Palistinian people and nation is a recent invention from the 1960s. Prior to the UN creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948 and the 1967 war, all persons living in that region were considered to be Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians. After 1967, these countries saw fit to forget this after losing wars with Israel. They want nothing to do with them, especially after hothead "Palestinian Identity" groups or sympathetic groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood and their kin found ways to make themselves obnoxious to the rulers of these countries. Other countries have exploited this for their own purposes. We have many parties to thank for this sorry state of affairs - Locally, the message of Nasser's Pan-Arabism had fallen on many interested ears, both for ideolistic and evil, cynical reasons. The region is lousy with evil, oppressive and corrupt governments who were eager to misdirect the anger and frustration at home toward the "cause" elsewhere. The major players here have been Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria and Turkey. The USA and Russia are hardly blameless, Britain historically too. Those last countries have less ideological interest in the region than an interest strategically in controlling the oil supplies there. None of them have ever given a rats ass about "palestinians" or the Jews either. What we have there is a fine "Crips" and "bloods" thing going on a slighty larger scale, with a toxic mixture of oil, ethnic, tribal and religious hatred. These latter things have been in play in one form or another for millenia. Arguably, there is also an "industry of struggle" at work too. What would happen to all those entities whose livelihoods and reasons for existance would evaporate without "this cause" or "that crusade" or "the intifadah" to do exploit. It would fall apart as if Prohibition or the "war on drugs" were called off and legalized.
On the ground, if everyone is really concerned about leaving non-combatants in peace, stop firing rockets and mortars into Israel (BONEHEADED!)and Israel will stop its actions in Gaza. It would be helpful for the outside powers to cease encouraging this mischief which does no good to any innocent civilian caught in the middle of this.
Eschew this false doctrine of Allah will sort out his own, or "Our God has a bigger dick than your god, therefore is on OUR side" This is not helpful.
Real men should not hide behind the skirts of women and children, Hospitals and Sacred places. If they feel they must make war, let them go forth, fight and die openly, like soldiers of real nations. There is honor in that, everything else is cowardly, swineish, devoid of glory. One does not earn martyrdom this way. No one gets virgins after death.
Religion is a stupid thing to make war over.
It is absurd and wrong to define your humanity, and that of others based on choice of religion.
It is absurd to kill and die on behalf of any god (invisible or otherwise) that will not provably return the favor personally.
Time, demographics and the ballot box will eventually sort this out without another shot being fired in anger.
Keep your lives. Love your children. Teach them the Golden Rule (not the one with the gold and ruling). Grow and thrive in peace. Diversify your media choices. Think for yourselves. Bad things inevitably happen to those how leave that to others. JAS
PS: This contributer works for the frequently Criticized News Network. I have heard it said that when your network is criticized by all sides, that it is doing the best possible job.
Posted by: Jesse at January 10, 2009 04:45 PM (KZ/Ox)
74
this is a joke you all talk about lies and fake news yet most of what is said here is just bs and i bet one guy sitting all alone in a celler typing to himself there is know real chat just the one sided kill them all crap soorry i ever stop here peace be with you all
Posted by: joe ny at January 10, 2009 04:48 PM (n38LG)
75
Joe,
Controlling the airway and ventilating the patient is still part of an in-hospital resuscitation. You're referring to bystander CPR which is not the situation at this Norwegian hospital in Gaza.
The Norwegian doctor is identified (by name) as a surgeon in the UK Channel 4 video.
Posted by: TLM at January 10, 2009 05:27 PM (VOL2j)
76
SIMdoc,
Look at 0:40 on the video. There is clearly tape across the right face leading to the mouth. This would suggest the patient has been intubated. You cannot actually see the face in the video during the code, so I'm not sure how anyone can say the patient isn't being ventilated. They show a tech or someone to the left of the patient and to the right of the worker doing compressions, so perhaps he's providing the bagging.
Posted by: SPW at January 10, 2009 06:09 PM (VftLx)
77
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Posted by: Wkvenajn at January 10, 2009 11:28 PM (fU49a)
78
"Posted by: alex pawel at January 10, 2009 08:22 AM
it all goes back to simple politics. if israel treated there neighbors with respect i would bet my house that rockets would rain down no more.
One must relieze hamas isn't firing the rockets for the hell of it. they didn't wake up one morning and decide out of the blue to fire off a few rockets. no, it's built up rage they are angry at israeli politics."
Your basic problem is that you dwell in ignorance. If you had even a miniscule understanding of history you would know that what you said is pure BS. For many years, Hamas has stated bold-facedly that they wanted all the Jews dead. They don't care whether Israelites drop bombs on them or not, they will kill every Jew they can reach until "Palestine" is totally clear of Jews. They aren't interested in a better life for the people of Gaza; all the Gazans are are tools to be used and killed by Hamas. The proof of that is in the history of the Gaza Strip since before Hamas took it over, illegally! They know that if they fire enough rockets and send in enough suicide bombers then Israel will retaliate; then imbeciles like you will all jump up screaming about how the Jews are killers and inhumanitarian and try to bring the UN, the Arab league, and every Arab country screaming for the Jews to be tried for war crimes. Of course no one ever mentions about the Hamas killing innocent civilians; men, women and children; on purpose. Just as they have been doing with their rockets for years.
Israel moved out of the Gaza Strip in 2006, forcibly moving Jewish settlers by use of the IDF. Israel left homes, businesses, and many green houses capable of turning out food to feed the Gazans and what happened? The Gazans destroyed everything the Jews left for them, Voilz, no food and then they cried to the world that the Israelis wouldn't feed them and the idiots at the UN sent in food whgich was taken by Hamas so that Hamas could look like saviors to the ignorant Gazans who then voted Hamas into government which turned on the legal government and killed them, imprisoned them, or chased them out of the Strip.
So, who do you think are the bad guys? The Jews who tried to help the "Palestinians" build a country or Hamas who are busy tearing the place apart, using food sent in to Gaza to buy arms to attack Israel?
DUHHHHH :p
Posted by: PhotoPro at January 10, 2009 11:32 PM (5SyNb)
79
Let us pray for the safety of Palestinian civilians who held hostages by Hamas and the safety of Israeli soldiers. May this campaign end swiftly and may Hamas be annihilated. May moderate Muslims emerge victorious in the struggle for Gaza!
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2009/01/israel-invades-gaza-in-attempt-to.html
Posted by: Muslims Against Sharia at January 11, 2009 12:09 AM (cJOhW)
80
PS: This contributer works for the frequently Criticized News Network. I have heard it said that when your network is criticized by all sides, that it is doing the best possible job.
Another possibility is that it's doing an awful job.
Posted by: Pablo at January 11, 2009 09:02 AM (yTndK)
81
Probably because they're hooked on al-Jazeera, Al Safi. Who, btw, make the "Israeli Nazis" look like pikers.
Posted by: Pablo at January 11, 2009 11:32 AM (yTndK)
82
Moses,your interpretations of history would anger any history teacher to give you an "F-"!
Posted by: Al Safi at January 11, 2009 05:25 PM (akWBb)
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Anatomy of a Media Hoax
As the IDF campaign in Gaza continues, so do attempts by Hamas and Hamas sympathizers to use the western media as an often willing propaganda tool.
Yesterday, media critic Charles Johnson commented on
Little Green Footballs about a 2-minute CNN story that purported to show the death of a Palestinian child in Gaza that was captured on film by his brother.
Here is a copy of that CNN story.
The video purports to show a truly horrific series of events. A boy and his friend are said to be struck down are struck down while they play, deliberately targeted by an Israeli drone aircraft armed with missiles. As doctors frantically perform CPR, the child apparently dies in front of his horrified brother, who continues filming. The boy is taken home, where he is cradled in the arms of a grieving family member. The video then cuts to the roof of the family home, where a family member shows where he claims the Israeli missile strike took the life of the two boys. The video then shows the family taking the boy to a local cemetary in a shroud, where he is to be laid to rest.
It is a truly horrible story, and one no doubt played out by heart-broken families on both sides of this conflict far too many times.
The only significant difference in this story, however, it that it is an obvious fake, featuring a series of images that any credible news editor should have quickly recognized.
But what marks this story as a hoax, and what elements point to media collusion in promoting this video as propaganda? Please watch the video above again, and we'll go through those elements step-by-step.
They are:
- basic medical procedures are poorly faked
- known propaganda actors are used in this film
- the site of the attack is poorly-constructed and inconsistent with a military attack.
- the body doesn't act like a body
First, let's return to the hospital, and take a look at our medical doctors and the life-saving procedures they are performing.
Narrated by Michael Holmes, the video opens with a Palestinian and European doctor hovering over what the narrator claims is a "victim of the violence."
The Palestinian doctor, on the right side of the camera frame, is shown to be mimicking a series of fast and shallow chest compressions as the doctor on the left examines a monitor.
The obvious problems?
This is not how CPR is performed.
There is never an attempt to get the child to breath or to provide him with life-sustaining oxygen, and the chest compressions are far too shallow to be of any medical value at all. Real chest compressions performed during CPR are violent by necessity. For the
lungs to fill with air heart to pump blood,
they it must first be forcefully compressed using hard and deep pressure that uses a significant amount of upper body strength on the part of the person doing the compressions. The amount of forced used to successfully compress the chest would be very painful to a conscious victim, as the compressions often crack or even break the ribs. The doctor in this video is being very careful not to cause the out-of-frame victim any harm.
Such delicacy would not be practiced if desperate life-saving measures were actually needed. Nor would such care be wasted on a corpse used in such a re-creation. As we will discover later, this so-called victim seems very much alive and healthy, and they take great care to make sure he remains that way.
But enough about our Palestinian doctor poorly faking chest compressions. Let's have a look at our dashing Norwegian doctor on the left of the frame.
Sadly, the image quality is lacking i this still-frame from the video, but you get a much better shot of him accompanying
this print story that happened to be running at the same time as CNN's video.
Isn't he quite the photogenic soul?
The BBC, CBS, CNN, Sky News, and other news outlets sure seem to think so, as they've all featured him and his special brand of spin:
International media reports, including those from the BBC, CBS, CNN and FOX’s sister station Sky News, present Gilbert as an ordinary doctor.
But a look at his record shows that Gilbert, 61, is a political activist and member of the Norwegian Maoist "Red" party, and he has been involved in solidarity work for the Palestinians since the 1970s. He has criticized the international aid organization Doctors Without Borders for refusing to take sides in conflicts.
Gilbert volunteers at the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza with the Norwegian Aid Committee (NORWAC), an aid organization funded by the Norwegian government, and he has been interviewed by the media on a variety of issues. Israeli government officials have said Hamas hides weapons in the hospital where Gilbert works.
NGO Monitor, an Israeli human rights watchdog group, says Gilbert presents one-sided criticism of Israel to the media and has accused Israel of deliberately targeting civilians in its Gaza offensive to stop Hamas from firing rockets into Israel.
In addition to being supportive of the terrorist organization Hamas, Gilbert has voiced support for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
What makes mad Mads appearance in this video all the more shocking is that he can't be bother to even help make this bit of theater mildly convincing by even going through the motions of giving the victim air, a complaint quickly voiced by doctors who
viewed the clip.
I'm no military expert, but I am a doctor, and this video is bullsh-t. The chest compressions that were being performed at the beginning of this video were absolutely, positively fake. The large man in the white coat was NOT performing CPR on that child. He was just sort of tapping on the child's sternum a little bit with his fingers. You can't make blood flow like that. Furthermore, there's no point in doing chest compressions if you're not also ventilating the patient somehow. In this video, I can't tell for sure if the patient has an endotracheal tube in place, but you can see that there is nobody bag-ventilating him (a bag is actually hanging by the head of the bed), and there is no ventilator attached to the patient. In a hospital, during a code on a ventilated patient, somebody would probably be bagging the patient during the chest compressions. And they also would have moved the bed away from the wall, so that somebody could get back there to intubate the patient and/or bag him. In short, the "resuscitation scene" at the beginning is fake, and it's a pretty lame fake at that.
Frankly, we need
Foreman and House on this. If we're going to have fake CPR, we need to have fake doctors who can pretend to do it more convincingly.
Now, let's look at the impact site of the alleged Israeli drone's missile attack.
For reasons never explained in the video—or perhaps for obvious reasons—the narrator never quite explains why the Israeli drone found this incongruous pile of cinder blocks to be worth firing upon, nor does it explain why the drone stopped firing only after mortally wounding the one cinder block, leaving the other largely intact and still capable of posing a threat. I kid, of course.
The cinder blocks are the heart of the video segment filmed on the rooftop where the two boys were said to have been killed. A frame-by-frame review of this segment as the camera pans across the roof shows no evidence of scorch-marks, shrapnel, or scoring consistent with shrapnel in the area around the blocks that the brother suggests is the impact point.
There is no evidence of any penetration or contact with into the roof surface itself at that point or anywhere else shown— not a single mark, despite the fact that drone-class warheads typically have impact-dependent fuses that means they would have detonated on impact, or if delayed, would have penetrated into the home before exploding.
As the camera pains across the rooftop, confirming no evidence of blast damage, it pans past the kind of cheap resin chairs that grace so many homes and apartments worldwide, thanks to the magic of Chinese industry. You've probably had one like this yourself.
You've also probably thrown away your fair share of chairs exactly like this one as well.
One thing we have learned from years of foreign imports is that you can have "cheap," or you can have "quality," and this kind of chair is decidedly cheap. Flimsily made, they bend and break with little provocation, and perhaps just as interesting for our context, they are tossed violently a considerable distance with even a moderate wind.
Somehow, we're expected to believe that an Israeli missile detonated on this roof without causing any obvious shrapnel, or enough concussive blast damage to shatter a simple resin chair or even knock it over, and yet still have the power to kill two boys, including at least one that was on the far side of that chair (where the "blood" stains are) or shred the clothes hanging on the clothesline just feet behind the that.
Despite all the fiction so far, there is some actual truth in the video on the rooftop, when the narrator notes that the roof is "pock-marked." There are holes in metal panels and chipped concrete, as you can see in the images below.
You'll also note that the metal panels are corroded around the edges of the holes, which is interesting in that recent perforated galvanized metal shows up bright, only to corrode much later. The pockmarked concrete, likewise, shows the weeping of rust from the exposed iron rebar inside.
This rooftop does indeed show signs of damage, but it is far less obvious if the damage is a sign of substandard construction materials or from combat. In either event, the corrosion evident on both the metal and concrete assure us that the damage was done long ago. No missle impact here during this war, if ever.
Lastly, rest assured that our young victim is doing far better than his pretend treatment and shroud would indicate.
As he is about to be laid to rest, the shroud falls away, leaving his arm exposed to gravity. Conscientious even as a corpse, the young victim holds his arm tightly against his woundless body as the camera pans away. I suspect his family is celebrating his miraculous resurrection even as you read these words.
And what of his family?
His brother's grief was never too strong to keep him from documenting his brother's death, and he will cope by burying himself in his work. Considering that he is the general manager of the company that
runs web sites for Hamas while they are at war, I'm sure he is quite busy, indeed.
As for CNN, they have carried on exactly as you would expect they would as
the kind of company that would hide the torture of even their own employees just to retain favorability among despots.
While they quickly dropped the video from their site after being caught in this lie, leaving what must have been an uncomfortable void where the video used to be, they did so with no explanation, no correction, and no retraction.
It must have been a very interesting meeting when decided that the best way to handle this obvious farce was to double-down and continue to pretend this story was real, replacing the fradulent video with
the print script of the story read by Michael Holmes.
The story is no less fraudulent, and the cover-up is far more damning.
This, truly, is CNN.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:31 AM
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1
One obvious thing in the video - @00:19, the 'doctor' on the right isn't doing compressions, that is, until he gets the signal from a person just out of frame on the left.
Watch it again, you'll see what I mean.
Posted by: DMartyr at January 09, 2009 02:29 PM (tm8pC)
2
The resucitation scene is clearly a hoax, and that roof was clearly not hit by any missile BUT that doesn't mean they aren't parading around an actual child's body. I take issue with the charge that the hand isn't flopping out, and therefore the child is alve: in wrapping the body, the hands are often tied together at the wrist. This would effectively prevent the hand from flopping out, and the arm would have the posture depicted in the clip you posted.
This IS journalistic fakery, for sure, but I suspect it involves a real dead child. Simply because parts are faked does not mean the whole thing is a fake: the most effective lies are half truths.
Posted by: One thing at January 09, 2009 03:12 PM (5V/kc)
3
speaking of "Faux News".
Who buys this crap?
Posted by: skating on glue at January 09, 2009 03:15 PM (cvtzI)
4
I noticed that the older brother who is purportedly filming all of this certainly holds the camera very steady throughout the video.
Also isn't that the good doctor at 1:46 helping out as a pallbearer?
Posted by: Dr. Eszterhazy at January 09, 2009 03:22 PM (M7l9H)
5
And millions will never read this blog and believe the evil Jews killed an innocent on purpose. I can not tell you how disheartened I am. When or how will sanity overcome the msm? Are we doomed to suffer the propaganda and lies forever? God have mercy!
Posted by: mekan at January 09, 2009 03:38 PM (hm8tW)
6
You wanted to know who's buying this crap? The left. Comments from Left Field; Juan Cole... the whole bunch of them.
Posted by: lawhawk at January 09, 2009 04:21 PM (xFg3I)
7
Look at the doctor's scrubs and gear. lawhawk has more pics of Gilberts.
They've been working on this kid and their scrubs are immaculate. Their gloves look like they came right out of the box. In fact, in those pics at lawhawk's in every one Gilbert looks like he just got on shift.
How did he manage to work on a kid and not get anything on himself or even on his hands?
Posted by: Spade at January 09, 2009 04:48 PM (7WUru)
8
It's obviously a fake, but if I may comment on your observation:
"... For the lungs to fill with air, they must first be forcefully compressed using hard and deep pressure..."
The purpose of the chest compressions is not to empty the lungs (they will empty naturally due to their elasticity and the positive pressure) but to provide pressure to the heart and pump the blood.
I don't mean to step on any toes, I just think it's important that we remain accurate when calling these goat humping motherless scumbags out.
Thank you.
Posted by: Paul at January 09, 2009 04:56 PM (nlaiH)
9
Paul, you are of course correct about the purpose of the chest compressions. Not sure what I was thinking there. Fixed in-line.
Thanks.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 09, 2009 05:03 PM (HcgFD)
10
Did the dead boy blink around 1:07 when he was held in the arms of his brother at home?
Posted by: Skye at January 09, 2009 07:32 PM (v4jU2)
11
Isn't it strange, that a brother who wants the world to know about his younger brother, never shows his brother?!??!
I still have no idea how he died (what wounds) or what he looked like.
And, how long till rigor sets in?
And, haven't these people heard of mortuary services? From other grave-parades I have seen, they have really bundled up the body wrapping it up real nice and tight in adorned wraps. Typically Hizballah green or the Pallie flag. But, this kid is buried in a loosely wrapped white.... thing?
Also, at the hospital. what is the deal with the colorful towel or blanket on the hospital gurney? Wouldn't that be one of the first things removed after a dying person is brought in?
And, if the kid was dead, wouldn't the monitor NOT be beeping, but a steady tone?
Posted by: captainfish at January 09, 2009 11:30 PM (H+bUa)
12
It appears your comment submission form has some bugs.
Posted by: SPW at January 10, 2009 12:01 AM (VftLx)
13
This is so clearly phony I wonder how anyone can buy it.
It certainly isn't the way I was taught CPR.
More importantly, I don't know of any hospital anywhere that would allow a family member to be present during actual emergency procedures. I also don't know of any hospital anywhere that would allow anyone to make a video of any procedure without prior permission.
Posted by: Trish at January 10, 2009 12:28 AM (83Cz6)
14
The very best part: ready made crypt for the kid within an hour of his alleged departure. I'm guessing it had to be within the hour otherwise rigor would have started setting in. Oh, and I'm fairly certain that they bath the body before the bury them. So much for the latent bloodstains.
Thanks for posting this and keep up the good work.
You sir, are a BlogGod.
Posted by: The Sniper at January 10, 2009 12:30 AM (6PxUw)
15
Trish,
Having family members present during resuscitations is frequently done in the United States and there have been many studies showing that parents appreciate being able to be present. I always allow parents and family members in the room when I am running a code. Your contention that family members being present during this resuscitation means it is fake is totally unfounded. In terms of the video, yes no U.S. hospital would allow that. But it's friggin' Gaza.
Posted by: SPW at January 10, 2009 09:30 AM (VftLx)
16
SPW--
I've never known a hospital in the USA to allow family present during resuscitation efforts, ever. If you do, you are very unusual. And yes, I wanted desperately to be present when the hospital was running a code on my father, but I was not allowed to be. So your contention that this is SOP is suspect.
And I don't care if it's "friggin' Gaza," no real doctor would allow that video camera in.
Posted by: Trish at January 10, 2009 01:49 PM (zsqVO)
17
Trish,
From a the paper entitled:
Report on the National Consensus Conference on Family Presence During Pediatric Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Procedures
Author: Henderson, D.P. et al,
Publication: Pediatric Emergency Care 21(11):787, November 2005
Results: General recommendations included consideration of FP (family presence) as an option during pediatric procedure and CPR, and offering this option to family members when the child's care will not be interrupted, after assessment for combative and threatening behavior, extreme emotial volatility, apparent family member intociation or altered mental status, disagreement among family members and apparent threats to the safety of the healthcare team (which should be considered at all times). If FP is not offered, the reasons for this action should be documented. Written policies and procedures regarding FP should be in place for in-hospital transport and transfer settings, with items to include definitions of all relevant terms, preparation of family members and processes for escorting family members in and out of the treatment area, handling of disagreements and staff support. FP policies should be subjected to legal review and education should be provided for healthcare personnel.
**My contentions are not suspect. They are the most recent recommendations from numerous medical authorities. Is it done in every hospital in the US? No, especially if they are ignorant of current trends.
Go ahead and pull that article, it refrences all the most recent literature on the matter.
Posted by: Trish at January 10, 2009 03:37 PM (VftLx)
18
The above comment was made by me, not Trish, which would seem to be evident. Strange bug I guess.
Posted by: SPW at January 10, 2009 06:25 PM (VftLx)
19
SPW
News to me and I work in a Chicago hospital as a telemetry nurse . Nobody in their right mind would want a family member inside the room during an active code situation . Code Blues are extremely stressful on the staff and having the family in an active code puts more stress on the staff to not screw up or more likely ,undue stress and worry due to the likelihood that the family might sue them for not doing enough for their loved ones . Aside from the obvious , there are a lot of people inside the patient's room during a code . The team leader which is usually the Attending/Consult/Fellow or the charge nurse , the compressor , the bagger , the medication nurse , the recorder , the respiratory therapist , lab tech , the reliefs , the runner , medical residents and other nurses going in and out of the room helping the code team in their task of saving the patient . Now, where would you propose to put the family during the controlled chaos of an active code ?
Nice study , problem is , did they happen to asked the people running the codes especially involving pediatric patients on how they feel of having the Damocles sword hanging above their heads when they let distraught family members in an active Pedia code blue . And about medical and nursing studies , 60% is pure BS , 20% is biased . 10% is useless , 5% is pure propaganda and the remaining 5% are just plain common sense .
Posted by: Wil at January 11, 2009 01:22 AM (4sHuN)
20
I'll add that the patients color (of the skin of the exposed arm at the cemetary sequence) is of an unusually flush color far a several hours old body.
Posted by: douglas at January 11, 2009 03:01 AM (20QoQ)
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January 08, 2009
Pro-Hamas Doctors Caught Faking A Civilian Death... After CNN Airs Footage
Mads Gilbert, the radical Marxist Norwegian doctor that was the focus of a Fox News report earlier today for being an anti-Israeli Hamas apologist, has been positively identified as one of two doctors caught faking CPR on a Palestinian boy that "died" in video featured today on CNN.
The segment with Gilbert shows him and another doctor badly faking chest compressions and other life-saving measures on a live boy faking death in what can only be described as political theater. The video claims to be filmed by the brother of a Palestinian teen that claims the boy was one of two purposefully killed by a missile fired at them by an Israeli drone as they played.
Lawhawk, has more on why the fake CPR is so pathetically obvious to those with actual CPR training.
CNN editors who swallowed the story of the poorly-acted video unquestioningly—no doubt because it fit the anti-Israeli narrative familiar to CNN viewers and critics—have now
pulled the video without explanation, correction, or retraction.
It has also been determined that the videographer who filmed his brother's "death" is the general manager of a company that
hosts web sites for Hamas.
Dr. Gilbert was allowed into Gaza by the Israelis just 2 days ago to provide medical care. He was involved in faking war crimes less than 48 hours later.
Update: The CNN cover-up continues. Saddam Hussein's favorite network has now pulled the video completely from their site, instead
posting a text story that continues the propaganda.
I suspect this attempt at avoiding the truth isn't going to work out very well for them.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:04 PM
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1
Wow! The Israelis shot the boys with a missile from a UAV. I checked their OOB for UAVs and didn't see any that carry missiles or other ordnance. Can anyone help?
Posted by: Bob R at January 08, 2009 08:11 PM (nuNde)
2
The Israelis ought to shoot that Norwegian along with the videographer as Hamas terrorists. Do that a few times and these clowns won't be so brazen.
Posted by: cubanbob at January 08, 2009 08:39 PM (R7fCv)
3
The leftist shills masquerading as "journalists" in the MSM wouldn't know a real journalist if they bumped into one on the street. As a Roman Catholic who only attends Mass at funerals and weddings, I would say this to the government of Israel - keep the pressure on until Hamas comes out of the rat holes they're hiding in and declares that Israel has a right to exist. If those gutless cowards don't come out, drop the leaflets and begin carpet bombing in Gaza.
Posted by: Still Bill at January 08, 2009 09:16 PM (i3QUw)
4
I have run more codes than I can count. That is clearly a fake, and a very bad one. Where was Sanjay Gupta when they approved this video for publication?
http://www.rightklik.net/
Posted by: Jason at January 08, 2009 10:07 PM (sQ3gH)
5
I'm with Jason. last code was Tuesday, 0115 AM. I trained hundreds of people in First Aid/CPR and the most stupid student could fake it better than the Dr. But then when you play to the Lame Stream Media anything will pass if you are the enemy of Israel or the U.S.. Thank God a lot of the Lame Stream Media types will be unemployed in short order, or maybe they will be short order cooks at McDonalds.
Posted by: Scrapiron at January 08, 2009 10:22 PM (GAf+S)
6
As a sometime Christian, a concerned classical liberal, and fiscal conservative who sometimes does a little plumbing, knows CPR, majored in Journalism in High School, and carried a union card for 30 years while serving in management of an agency whose security clearance would have allowed me to snitch on a private citizen had I really wanted to, and helped develop the GIS that makes smart bomb/UAV navigation reliable, and also helped dig a tunnel once and can drive a bulldozer if the job calls for it (did I leave anything out, trolls?), I'd like to say you wouldn't get this bull-puckey past Joe The Plumber. Just sayin, thank you.
Posted by: comatus at January 08, 2009 10:28 PM (IsW34)
7
Wow . . . CPR instructors look more real than that doing fake compressions on students, and they're not trying to fool anybody. At first I thought, "Well, maybe they just showed what had already been done before the boy died, you know, for the cameras." Still not real, but a dead child is a dead child whether you recorded the CPR live or not.
But it doesn't make much sense to be so gingerly with the patented Chi-Powered No-Touch Chest Compressions unless the "patient" is alive--you wouldn't hurt a dead body by doing the real compressions. Pretty brazen.
Posted by: Don Gwinn at January 08, 2009 10:45 PM (AvqP+)
8
CNN should have had soon-to-be U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Sanjay Gupta review the video before broadcasting it!
Posted by: Howard at January 08, 2009 11:09 PM (rArcz)
9
Where was Sanjay Gupta
Where was the surgeon general? probably the one saying "get that stupid crap off the screen!"
I only had first aid cpr training when I was in the service, our training dolls required real pressure, and the doc's got kinda pissed if you didn't put enough pressure on it. One of the rules we were told is "you ARE gonna break ribs, but better broken ribs than a dead EFFING FRIEND! PUSH!"
Posted by: Wickedpinto at January 09, 2009 12:13 AM (ul7te)
10
Even if the video was fake, so what? It was accurate and it showed the war crimes Israel is committing every moment of the day. That narrative is important here.
Man, I could write for the NY Times with analysis like that.
Posted by: Vinny F. at January 09, 2009 01:03 AM (5J2A5)
11
Israel must have the weakest UAV bombs on the market if they didn't manage to do more damage than that. Miraculously it only made a small dent in the roof, broke part of a cinder block, and killed one of two boys seemingly without causing any external injuries.
"Go ahead and play on the roof boys, it's safe up there! Don't mind the Israeli bombers flying overhead!"
Yeah, who believes this crap? Oh, right.
Posted by: George at January 09, 2009 03:34 AM (ypuiF)
12
Man, I am surprised with Vinny F. acceptance of fake reporting. I guess the objective of this did not ring a bell to you. When you are concern, you evaluate the whole situation and not just superficial.
Be realistic, the casualties of the war aren't the crimes of the Israelis alone. It shows how little you understand about war and it's repercussions.
Why didn't you condemn Hama for continuingly firing rockets that eventually led to this whole suffering?
The best solution for the people in both Palestine and Israel is to live in peace, respect each other rights and to refrain from violence.
Let's not rub salt over the wounds.
Posted by: eric yeo at January 09, 2009 04:02 AM (o3uY7)
13
Vinny F:
Do you condone false reporting of alledged facts by supposedly respectable journalists, in order to promote their partisan political agenda? Would you condone such behaviour if your opponents did this?
Posted by: John McLachlan at January 09, 2009 04:50 AM (aKiF4)
14
I have no medical background but how long does it take for rigor mortis to set in? When they are taking the boy to be buried it looks like his head is moving from side to side and his body is flexible.
Posted by: Ken at January 09, 2009 05:55 AM (d+HYY)
15
The real tragedy here is Hamas operatives burying a young boy alive!
Posted by: Non-believer at January 09, 2009 06:35 AM (T/dRD)
16
Funny, and here I thought Vinny was mocking the MSM and their resolute refusal to abandon their narrative even as it crumbles beneath them.
So, Eric, John, and Ken, where could I get a really cool stick inserted up my butt just like the ones you've got? Did it get shoved far enough to knock some IQ points out of your head?
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at January 09, 2009 06:36 AM (Vcyz0)
17
Yeah Steve, I agree. A word to the wise Vinny. There is so much stupid stuff getting posted on blogs that everyone's sarco-meter is hopelessly out of calibration. I don't think they're even available anymore. You have to do it like this: "Yeah right, and monkeys are going to fly out of my butt any second. /sarc." Otherwise the Eric, John, and Kens of the world will be referring you to a proctologist.
Posted by: smellthecoffee at January 09, 2009 09:12 AM (avj2M)
18
Vinny had me fooled for a moment, until I took a second to parse his final sentence: "Man, I could write for the NY Times with analysis like that."
Actually, I would guess CBS News. That was the Dan Rather defense, no? "Fake but accurate?"
We see the same, manufactured nonsense every time Palestine flares up, and you have to ask why people don't wonder, "If there are real atrocities being committed here, why do the Palestinians have to manufacture evidence of them?"
Posted by: Plumb Bob at January 09, 2009 09:58 AM (nVK2J)
19
To answer the question, rigor mortis sets in at about 3 hours, reaches it's peak in 12 hours, then dissipates for about the next 72 hours.
Posted by: Angela at January 09, 2009 10:07 AM (MnwcT)
20
We can look forward to more and more brazen lie-mongering. I note that these figures of 800-odd dead of which half are non-combatants come only from Hamas/UN sources. We can be certain that they correlate with reality only to the extent these sources perceive that correlation to benefit Hamas. Let's not forget the fictive Jenin Massacre which was staged with much higher production values. I guess in these tough times even HamasTV has to do with less.
Posted by: megapotamus at January 09, 2009 10:24 AM (LF+qW)
21
I've run codes too. They were doing infant cpr on a child, and poorly. Maybe the med schools there are crap or it was faked!
Posted by: matt at January 09, 2009 11:49 AM (vkiAn)
22
Criminy! I've never taken CPR training, to my shame, but even I could take that was phony!
Posted by: Kate at January 09, 2009 12:00 PM (w6jnz)
23
As a Roman Catholic who attends mass weekly+, I encourage Isra-El to fight the good fight against the invading mohamedans.
I am a Zionist. When the dhimmis at the UN and the House of Saud insinuate that Israel's statehood and borders are not legitimate, let us ask about the other "created" countries: transJordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon. Israel got
Long Live Isra-El!
Posted by: Still Tracy at January 09, 2009 02:14 PM (6+UU6)
24
I was wondering when we were going to see Green Helmet (the Hezbollah war crime faker) make his appearance in Gaza.
Posted by: CHRIS at January 09, 2009 02:39 PM (5P+LB)
25
Vinny F was joking douche bags. This proves what a heinous lying religion "Islam" is -- well, actually a death cult. Fuck Islam, Fuck the Arab Muslims, and Fuck the so-called Palestinians. Go ISRAEL.. SHOW THOSE FUCKERS.
Posted by: Earth Ling at January 09, 2009 03:57 PM (itbhV)
26
This is blatant propaganda. The Jihadists made their civilians part of the army when they announced they would use them as human shields. If they are willingly staying there they are supporting the terrorist regime by acting as shields. They should tell all civilians to walk to a holding pen across the border and then level all of Gaza and then tell them to revote on who they want in power because option A) Hamas was the wrong answer.
Posted by: Kirk at January 09, 2009 04:02 PM (9mwnL)
27
Earth Ling,
There is nothing wrong with islam, either your a troll or an idiot
Islam is the religion of peace, the members of Hamas may call themselves muslims but they are just as much muslims as the crusaders were
Posted by: MAModerate at January 09, 2009 04:14 PM (cRzwd)
28
What I see in the video is a doctor on the left pointing to the monitor shwowing that the EKG is flat and the boy is dead. On the right hand side, an unscholared volunteer palestinian "health worker" is still trying to give CPR, and this urges the doctor to once again point to the monitor. Although this doctor is a leftwing activist, he is also a respected professor of Emergency medicine and he obviously knows what he is doing, even if his non-professional assistant is not.
Posted by: Hew at January 09, 2009 04:16 PM (1KQPr)
29
None of this theater surprises me. I have seen two different pictures of the same live but injured(?)
child, in two different settings held by two different grieving males. The child does not look distressed...This child is obviously being used for propaganda purposes. Then there is the faked Al-Dura incident, and others, manufactured by 'Palestinian theater for the gullible'...
Are you that gullible? Apparently some are.
Posted by: duh_swami at January 09, 2009 04:19 PM (BH3pO)
30
So.
The kid was supposedly hit by a missile from an Israeli UAV.
Has anyone wondered why there was enough of him left to collect?
Shouldn't there be just a small, bloody pile of miscellaneous body parts on the table?
Even with an explosion, missiles carry a fairly high amount of kinetic energy.
Posted by: mdgiles at January 09, 2009 05:16 PM (FyQWO)
31
Really? Was he hit spot-on? Or are you just imagining?
Posted by: Hew at January 09, 2009 05:25 PM (1KQPr)
32
Hew,
A doctor over at SDA ended your monitor hypothesis, saying:
As a physician who has just finished doing a resuscitation last shift, I agree with the analysis by Last Mohican.
The CPR is fake. There is no ventilation, the chest compressions are pitiful.
Moreover the interesting thing is that the monitor is beeping, but doesn't look like it has asystole on it. In fact it is making the noise it makes when it is unplugged from the patient or an error vs. a serious interpreted event (some monitors can tell if their leads are plugged in). Also while it is beeping the caucasian doctor is putting the chest lead electrodes on the kid's chest, while the other guy is doing fake CPR, meaning the monitor was not actually attached to the patient.
The monitor wasn't plugged in. Gilbert's acting is looking worse all the time.
As for comments about missile warheads, I can address that.
No known Israeli UAVs are armed, even though Palestinians have been making such claims for several years.
Of known armed western UAVs, such as the U.S. Predator, if they carry a missile, they carry a variant of the anti-tank Hellfire missile, a beast of a weapon originally designed to kill main battle tanks in top-down strikes with spectacular results. The wars we fight have now led to a Hellfire has a modded warhead that is now designed to be far more effective on structures, and you can see the handiwork of such weapons in the fields or piles of rubble that remain after a UAV drone strikes teh Taliban or al Qaeda safe houses in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Simply put, neither this structure nor anyone on it was hit by any precision guided air-to-ground system in operation today. The footage simply rules it out.
mdgiles is correct: if the roof had been hit directly by a missile like those on today's UAVs, they would not find much of him.
Or of that house, for that matter.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 09, 2009 05:44 PM (HcgFD)
33
I am an Emergency Room physician and have been in private practice for more than five years. I run codes frequently, and thankfully very few of them are on children.
I have to thoroughly disagree with the other physicians who claim this is fake. Is it AHA approved CPR? No. He appears to be giving infant CPR to a child. That's why the compressions are fast and shallow. And they aren't "delicate" either. You can see the child moving up and down in the bed with the compressions.
In terms of ventilation, the child is not receiving any. Which would lead me to believe they basically brought the child in, started CPR, got him on the monitor, recognized that he was in asystole, and called it. It's Gaza and it is likely they save their intubations for those that they can save, not a flat lined trauma victim.
As for the body not looking dead, his head sure is wobbling around like a dead person. And Angela is correct, rigidity after death begins roughly three to four hours later, so the arm comment is ridiculous.
I can't comment on ballistics and the like, but I will say the allegations about the CPR not being real are made by someone who apparently doesn't really know what they are talking about. And unfortunately they are being propped up by doctors in the comment section who don't seem to be looking at it objectively.
Pretty shameful really.
Posted by: SPW at January 09, 2009 06:07 PM (VftLx)
34
You've got really good eyes, SPW, to see what you saw. They barely show the child's torso at all in the hospital until the second segment, and I've watched this video frame-by-frame. There, the boy is not moving up and down, though the doctor leaning on the gurney seems to be moving it a little bit. Not quite the same thing, but you're welcome to your opinion.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at January 09, 2009 06:26 PM (HcgFD)
35
MAModerate, Earth Ling, and all who took the time to post:
You are all correct. Any death (if this child was really dead, only they know) is regrettable, and there is nothing inherently wrong with Islam. It's the radical clerics and war-mongers using the name of Allah and Mohamed, calling for Martyrs (Kamakazi pilots in WWII) from a population that figures their families will be better off with the money that Hamas gives them for their deaths (as well as the many virgins they'll meet, supposedly, in heaven).
What we must not lose site of is that when people are only shown one side of a story, they tend to side with those who are "educating" them. Perhaps, if anyone _in_ Palestinian territories has Internet access and can correct me, then I will be wrong in saying that the majority of people there are NOT ALLOWED to get their information and education from anywhere other than their clerics and a biased media.
Remember a few months ago when battery acid was thrown on a few girls on their way to school trying to get an basic education?! If this is permitted to continue, then there is little hope for a turn to prosperity for those struggling to survive; the only way out they see is through violence directed towards those who they are TOLD are the problem by their clerics (Israel for "insurgence").
In case anyone wasn't aware, Israel has a 3-pronged counter-attack strategy for dealing with terrorists:
1. Find the terrorists.
2. Find the organizations responsible for funding or aiding the terrorists.
3. Find the town/city/state that the terrorists attacked from and/or hide in.
This is supposed to dissuade cities, countries and good people from harboring terrorists through economic loss.
Asside from lack of education, another real problem is the governments of the countries where peaceful settlers were once living. Those countries allied to attack Israel back in 1967 and 1973 (6-day and Yom Kippur wars), and on many other occasions... After both of these wars, Israel GAVE BACK most, if not all, of the land it had secured, and the (Palestinian) people on that land -- caught in the middle -- were not accepted by those countries' governments... Who do these poor people have to turn to if they do not/are not allowed to accept Israel's aid??
Unfortunately, it seems that the militant factions -- remnants from those wars, who continuously and randomly send rockets into Israel are refusing to acknowledge the loss of life of these poor people from defensive retaliation, are refusing to see and let these people see the reality of what caused this conflict and are refusing to let their brethren and others move on to seek a more prosperous, cooperative way of living WITH their neighbors of their own free will. This is a shame. I do pray this will change through better "education" and more neutral media coverage.
Thank you for reading. Shalom.
==_-+- Steve
Posted by: Steven B at January 09, 2009 06:43 PM (RRm7u)
36
You seem to be trying to turn the tables on me; the burden of evidence is not mine in this argument.
You see, I do not have much of a hypothesis, it is you and a few other people putting forth a conspiracy theory that the video is a fake who are stating a hypothesis that remains very much unfounded.
But there is no evidence of fake, just a series of rather dubious statements on how we are supposed to interpret a confusing little flick.
Did anybody say "Loose change"? So far, that's about where you're at as far as I'm concerned.
I still see a dead boy, a doctor who knows the patient is dead, and another person in a robe doing half-hearted going-through-the-motions CPR.
I am not sure of what is actually going on. But I am sure that you are peddling a conspiracy theory that is unsubstantiated.
As for all the self-proclaimed "doctors" commenting here on the web, I am sure that a few medical journals would be interested in a well founded article exposing doctor Gilbert, a reknown professor of Emergency medicine, as a fake.
Your whole case seems to rest on the apparently half-hearted movements which may or may be not be attempts at CPR.
That's not a very strong case.
(English is not my native language, please forgive any mistakes.)
Posted by: Hew at January 09, 2009 06:51 PM (1KQPr)
37
This "distinction" between Islam and the supposed "radical" elements that have "hijacked" the "religion of peace" is ridiculous. Over the last 12 days, in virtually ever major city in the world, we have witnessed the adherents of Islam, protesting, carrying placards with the most vile of words. Many openly shouting, "you need an oven" you need a "big oven". Burning, setting hundreds of cars on fire, looting, and threatening Jews. I saw NO counter demonstrations from the non-radical portion of Islam. In fact, there has been none, ever. Any objective reading of the Qu'ran, would quickly reveal why. Islam is at odds with non-believers, and there can be no peaceful co-habitation with them, either. Dhimmi status is as good as it gets for the infidel. There has been NO hijacking of the "religion of peace", no no, just an adherents to the Qu'ran by all who practice this, "religion of peace". They are ALL good followers, too!!
Posted by: cottoneyed at January 09, 2009 07:07 PM (d7TSj)
38
I think SPW makes some pretty good points in this. I'm not an expert on CPR or in the medical field, but I fail to see it is fake, as in the boy is alive in anyway, though can't say he's dead either. Anyway, as for the other parts, obviously just pushing the narrative. Wish people would open their eyes on what Hamas does.
Posted by: G at January 09, 2009 07:26 PM (+Wajk)
39
I'm confused.
Faking A Civilian Death or faking CPR?
To me the death is real.
Not the CPR.
But why the title is Pro-Hamas Doctors Caught Faking A Civilian Death, isnt supossed Pro-Hamas Doctors Caught Faking A CPR???
Posted by: neutral at January 09, 2009 10:12 PM (CduSN)
40
I have been a RN for the last 22 years and have participated in a few codes. This whole thing looks staged to me. The chest compressions are ineffective, to say the least. There is no attempt at an airway. In the field the Red Cross has changed to make compressions more important, but in the hospital setting where there is staff to intubate, that would be the norm. The monitor is beeping before the doc even places the leads. Did anyone see any IV lines? I have watched it a couple of times and I swear that I hear the Cauc. doc saying the boy is in bradycardia, not asystole. They don't even attempt any medications. This whole thing is a fake. Then, when they have the child at home and at the graveside the body is pretty loose, with no rigor.
Posted by: iamarn37 at January 10, 2009 07:43 AM (VvGHj)
41
I'm against war and take no sides in this conflict, but the video is very questionable. The doctors' actions (aside from the CPR) don't look like anything I've seen in an emergency room or on reality TV shows that follow doctors - there's no immediacy, chaos or effort. At one point, one of the doctors puts his finger on the overhead monitor to show the kid is dead - who does that? The family's reaction doesn't look like any footage of a family that just lost a child - no screaming, no falling down, no shouts of "death to Israel." Do families have to do this? No. But most videos of grieving families have it? Yes.
With all the death in Gaza, I don't know why anybody would need to fake one.
Posted by: fzlover at January 10, 2009 08:33 AM (0rE5M)
42
To all the Hamas apologists out there, just who does have the burden of proof? You have a video, shot and provided by Hamas propoganda scum that includes an openly anti-Israeli doctor who justified 9-11. In order to believe anything that comes out of hamas or that idiot of a doctor, I would have to witness the dead body myself, along with the alleged attack.
Allegedly he's a doctor, but that means nothing in terms of credibility. A tool for the terrorists palestinians comes in all shapes and sizes. The only thing common about them is that they are all idiots.
As are you.
Posted by: Jack Burton at January 10, 2009 11:13 AM (YxJoH)
43
There are many hollywood wantabees' in this type of propaganda. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book on warfare, setting it up to make it appear like the other side is doing the
dirty-deed. Hamas get out go home.
Posted by: Jennifer Pfeifer at January 10, 2009 04:14 PM (uKemT)
44
As a Norwegain I just want to say that our people are clearly divided in this conflict, but like the rest of Europe we have a press that operates with its own agenda, is clearly leftist, and who's ignoring or just not telling the whole truth. Add to that we have the most radical leftist government in Europe, who has acknowledged Hamas.
There's a hate towards Israel that journalists are contributing to in a shocking way here. And there's a reason why som many pro-palestine rallies have turned into pure voilence, yesterday they even let children go in front in a manifistation for "peace" here in Oslo. Of course it turned violent and they have now excused their methods by saying the children were put there to prevent the demonstrators from turning to violence.
It's just appaling, and we all need to wake up and face this death cult!
Posted by: Trond at January 11, 2009 06:59 AM (SL5iH)
45
iamrn37,
Look at time 0:40 on the video. You can clearly see tape across the right side of the child's face indicating he has already been intubated. Prior to 0:40, when the tech is handing the doc some material, there is a vent behind him. The youtube video is poor quality. If you go to little green footballs blog, there is much more high quality video direct from the network and you can see the detail much better.
Also on that better video you can see the child be compressed into the bed slightly with compressions.
I've heard lots of people claim the airway is not in control here, but no one has taken the time to look and see that it very likely is. Of course, I can't see the patient's face, but neither can you. I do see evidence of an ET tube in place though.
Posted by: SPW at January 11, 2009 10:56 PM (VftLx)
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January 07, 2009
Working Stiffs Fluff for Bailout
The economy has brought many industries to their knees, including one line of work that spends a considerable portion of its time there anyway.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
04:28 PM
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Another Leftist/Islamist Lie Up In Smoke
It doesn't seem that we can have a conflict in the Middle East without pro-terrorist Islamists and Leftists in the world declaring that white phosphorus (WP) is a chemical weapon, and that the military force using WP is guilty of a "war crime" or "atrocity" for firing white phosphorus shells—never mind that that Islamist force targets civilians, uses their own population as human shields, and commits rape and torture with barbaric impunity to those they suppress.
Such apologist claims, almost without exception, based upon either radical politics, gross ignorance, or a combination of the two. In either event, these shrill claims are decidedly false.
A typical case of ignorance is the one I cited
several days ago in the Pacific Free Press where the headline called the use of White Phosphorus by Israeli forces in Gaza the " War Crime du Jour."
Likewise, "Cernig," posting at Crooks & Liars, posted an equally inflammatory, fact-free and generally
unhinged rant on the subject:
And there are good reasons to believe that the IDF is simply lying as part of a propaganda war it admits has been eight months in the planning: the use of indiscriminate white phosphorus airbursts, in contravention of international law as it is understood everywhere except the US and Israel (the 1980 Protocol III to the Convention on Conventional Weapons containsa blanket restriction on dropping incendiary weapons from the air against military objectives "located within a concentration of civilians"
; the way in which the IDF is throwing explosives around so freely that almost as many of its people have been killed by its own "errant' tank shells as by enemy action.
Like most Leftists, Cernig is quick to pick and choose his atrocities of choice, completely ignoring that Hamas purposefully targeted Israeli civilians with thousands of rockets and mortar shells, in order for him to attack Israel by purposefully (and ignorantly) misconstruing what the laws of land warfare are, and what white phosphorus munitions are being used, and how.
The Israelis are not firing White Phosphorus incendiary weapons into Gaza.
This photo from Gil Cohen Magen two days ago shows Israeli 155mm M825A1 white phosphorus shells, with "M825A1" written clearly on the sides. I've cropping the image to focus on the M825A1 shells.
Update: A higher-resolution crop showing the shell markings more clearly.
Likewise,
this photo posted today shows more Israeli 155mm M825A1 shells near a self-propelled gun.
Clearly, Israeli forces are using 155mm M825A1 white phosphorus shells in Gaza. But the white phosphorus shells they are using in Gaza
are not incendiaries, and they are not being used in any way that can possibly be misconstrued as illegal.
Why?
Because the M825A1 is a smoke round.
From
Global Security:
The M825 is a 155mm Smoke projectile used to provide screening or marking smoke. It is a separate loading munition using a hollow forged steel shell. The shape is ogival with a boat tail for aerodynamic efficiency and a welded steel baseplate. Close to the base is a gilding metal drive band protected by a grommet until just before loading.
The M825 White Phosphorus (Felt-Wedge) is a 155mm base ejection projectile designed to produce a smoke screen on the ground for a duration of 5 to 15 minutes. It consists of two major components, the projectile carrier, and the payload. The projectile carrier delivers the payload to the target. The payload consists of 116 WP-saturated felt wedges.After ejection, the WP felt wedges fall to ground in a elliptical pattern. Each wedge will then becomes a source of smoke. The projectile is ballistically similar to the M483A1 DPICM family of projectiles.
Smoke ammunition is a limited asset. Since ammunition requirements vary with each mission, observers should know the amount and types of smoke ammunition available and how many minutes of coverage it can provide. Extensive, planned smoke employment should be coordinated early with firing units to allow for redistribution or requisition of ammunition.
That's the short version.
The full article goes into far more detail about the nuance about the difference between the use of "quick smoke" and "immediate smoke" for battlefield missions, but one thing is painfully obvious—these are artillery shells and they contain white phosphorus, but they are
not incendiary weapons, and they are not, by any remote measure, illegal to use in Gaza or anywhere else. They are smoke shells, used to create smoke screens.
The kind of white phosphorus artillery shells used as incendiary munitions are those called burster-type white phosphorus, and Global Security explains the difference between the incendiary and smoke rounds
in sufficient detail .
The airburst Cernig and other terrorist apologists laments as an illegal attack is instead how a smokescreen is created to
protect advancing soldiers. It is decidedly not an incendiary weapon, is decidedly not illegal,
violating no laws or conventions.
Make no mistake—these apologists, Islamists and Leftists alike, are lying, pro-terror shills.
* * *
Few nations on Earth exercise as much care in waging a "humane" war as does Israel and the United States.
In this present conflict in particular the IDF has gone to extreme lengths to reduce collateral damage, from the careful selection of targets, to using precision-guided state-of-the-art weaponry to maximize the accuracy of their strikes, to using distinct weapons systems designed with different capabilities to use the absolute minimum of force to destroy terrorist targets, to even going to the extreme of phoning civilians near terrorist targets in order to evacuate them prior to attacks.
As Victor David Hansen notes, Israel has gone to
historical lengths to protect a hostile civilian population, even as those hostiles openly back and publicly cheer terrorist attacks—more than 6,000 in recent years—that purposefully target Israeli civilians.
There is no moral middle ground here, but one of the most clear-cut battles between good and evil mankind is likely to ever see on this mortal plane.
If you side with Hamas,
you side with evil.
Perhaps, then, I shouldn't be so surprised that so many of Hamas' apologists are so willing to lie for them.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Then there are those of us from the Vietnam era who see nothing morally wrong about using willie peter on enemy positions and not just as marking rounds for artillery spotters.
Rules in warfare, when my life is at stake? I don't think so.
Posted by: Rex at January 07, 2009 01:33 PM (W309r)
2
WP is indeed a smoke producing agent. When I was in the army our M60 tanks could shoot WP shells, and I think my tank carried a couple rounds. But you get smoke from burning, and WP burns on contact with air, so if you get it on you, you need to douse it with water and then pick off the bits of WP from your flesh or it will keep burning. So, its purpose is smoke but a side-effect is burning. I agree, it is fine for the Israelis to use them for their intended purpose or laying down smoke, and if some Hamas members get burned, well... maybe they ought to stop murdering people, then they won't run that risk
Posted by: Brad at January 07, 2009 01:54 PM (NTFbl)
3
Wonder what would happen if Hamas somehow managed to fire white phosphorus rockets? Surely then the left would finally condemn them, right? /sarc.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at January 07, 2009 01:58 PM (HG6DM)
4
In Vietnam, my platoon was ambushed several times. To counter the threat, we were given 3 mortars. To turn a Willie Peter round into an airburst WP round was simply a matter of replacing the detonation fuse with a timing fuse. We practiced a bit to get the right time and elevation and charges to burst over the trees that lined the road where we travelled. The last ambush we had stopped immediately after we shot off a couple of these airburst WP rounds. Very effective at saving lives, namely ours.
Posted by: Mike at January 07, 2009 01:59 PM (toXTX)
5
Personally, I think Israel should drop cluster bombs, WP, napalm and thermobaric bombs on those large gatherings of Hamas when they have funerals or political rallies. Same thing with hezbollah.
Posted by: SamIam at January 07, 2009 03:21 PM (jl7C/)
6
Unhinged is the polite way of saying it.
Posted by: Jack at January 07, 2009 04:48 PM (Z1UDt)
7
Not that anyone notices anymore but you cannot have a warcrime wunless both combatants are geneva convention signers *and following the conventions*. As soon as one side declines to follow the rules the other is freed of any obligations as well.
Posted by: rjschwarz at January 07, 2009 04:49 PM (gk04J)
8
And these people are picking sides. That is something they don't seem to want to admit.
I call this "Che chic" --- it is a Western (intellectual) society form of flagellation. They pat themselves on the back for being big enough to demonize the "us" while bending over backward to ignore the reality of the "other" ---- which means in reality that they champion the other - no matter how grotesque.
So, the Palestinians are just another of those poor, downtrodden masses, yearning to be free, trampled on by the rich, democratic, industrial-capitalist world order --- and as such victims of all that made the Che chic-types free (like capitalism and democracy and industrialization) ---- whatever this "other" does must be excused. ----- while the state of Israel - by being too much aligned with the world order - must be condemned.
It really isn't about championing the Palestinians. It's about making themselves feel better for being "progressive" -- which means attacking the foundations of their own (Western) societies.
But -- it still - in the end - champions the likes of Hamas....
Posted by: usinkorea at January 07, 2009 06:07 PM (lK2Wx)
9
Well, even so-called "conventional" ammunition uses chemical propellants. Ergo, they are by definition chemical weapons.
Ooh, more war crimes!
Roofing nails packed into semtex vests, of course, are exempt from any arms agreements.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at January 07, 2009 11:14 PM (Vcyz0)
10
White Phosporus is considered a chemical round because way back when Christ was a Corporal, smoke screens were part of the job of the Chemical Warfare Service, usually with 4.2 inch Chemical Mortars, an improvement on the old British Four Inch Mortar that was smoothbored rather than rifled. That gray green color of the shell body indicates a chemical round and the yellow stripe indicates an explosive bursting charge for it. That's mostly by tradition and long ingrained habit, otherwise they'd paint the things red like any other incendiary device like tracer ammo.
White phosporus is an incendiary agent. It burns, and it does cause some horrible wounds. As Brad noted, our tanks were loaded with a few as a part of our basic ammunition load, along with SABOT, HEAT, HEP and BEEHIVE. As trained, WP was considered to be appropriate only for screening and antimaterial use.
We also considered it to be excellent for taking out SAGGER, (Soviet 9M14M Malyukta antitank missile) operators. Suddenly becoming a crispy critter, tends to take the motivation out of the hardest of the hardcore. Fire has always been a good psychological weapon.
I don't know whether the Israelis are using their SMOKE rounds legally or not. I'm not there and like most other people reading about the current incursion or watching it on television, I can't comment on what they're doing because of that.
I do know that if I had to deal with snipers or Engineer Tank Killing Teams or other people who were trying to kill me, I probably wouldn't be terribly fastidious about what I used on them, since I'm not infected with the Martyr's Disease. I want the other guy to die for his country, not the other way around.
I'm not sure that I'd use smoke for screening in Gaza though. Too heavily urbanised and what screens an enemy from me, also provides cover to an enemy, even with Thermal Imaging Sights. Concrete will hold and reflect a lot of heat and if it's daytime, that lowers the contrast of the target in question some.
Bottom line though, is that we all ought to take a wait & see attitude on this, especially when you consider the fact that lawyers are hip deep in our wars now, and what people do either establishes a precident or violates one with the possibility of being prosecuted. And whatever's happening there might well create precident to be used against our guys one day.
David Drake made the best point on the subject, when he noted that whenever you send out a guy with a gun to solve your problems, you've created a policy maker and when it's his ass on the line, he's gonna do whatever he thinks that he has to in order to get it done and stay alive. People who expect otherwise are either delusional or lying. Pick one.
Posted by: Michael Shirley at January 07, 2009 11:43 PM (u0eeD)
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Steve wrote:
Well, even so-called "conventional" ammunition uses chemical propellants. Ergo, they are by definition chemical weapons.
Ooh, more war crimes!
It's worse: human beings are powered by chemical reactions. They are also biological. The average Israeli soldier is quite a weapon in himself, so by sending troops into Gaza, Israel is using chemical and biological weapons against Hamas!
You may scream in panic and outrage now.
Posted by: Patrick Chester at January 08, 2009 02:31 AM (RezbN)
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First of all, EVERY weapon is a chemical weapon. Guns use gunpower, a chemical. Even a kitchen knives are made of chemicals.
White phosphorus is also a chemical weapon. But it is not a chemical weapons banned under the Convention on Chemical weapons that "Cernig" mentions above. Whether it is simply a smoke round or not, doesn't matter.
Cernig uses sleight of hand to claim it's banned for use in "objectives located within a concentration of civilians". But EVERY weapon in the world is banned for use against civilians - there is nothing special about that, and that's why his posting was complete nonsense.
Posted by: John Rohan at January 08, 2009 03:55 AM (Xtvxj)
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On another subject; I have noticed that the media's pictures of dead children that I have seen are a bit unreal. The supposedly dead children are not bloodied in any way. That is not to say that children are not victims, but I expect the green helmeted man to appear shortly. I don't have any confidence in the reporting by the Gaza stringers nor the Western media either.
Posted by: amr at January 08, 2009 07:27 AM (I4yBD)
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Personally I'd have no issues with the Israelis going "old school warfare", which would entail pretty much wiping Gaza off the map. That's how wars were once fought and that's how the Islamists are fighting. I believe Sun Tzu said never leave an enemy at your back, and that is basically what Israel has done, except no matter which way she turns there's an enemy at her back.
We imagine ourselves and the world to be so civilized when in fact the majority of the nations/cultures/population is FAR from it. You deal with the uncivilized on a level they will understand. From a position of strength and the promise of utter obliteration.
Posted by: Scott at January 09, 2009 09:16 AM (mqy6N)
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The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 01/09/2009 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at January 09, 2009 12:24 PM (gIAM9)
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A little lesson on terminology might help keep this thread focussed.
Today's lesson is taken from the Chemical Weapons Convention, which entered into force 29 April 1997.
Reading from Article II (Definitions and Criteria), paragraph 1: "'Chemical Weapons' means the following, together or separately: (a) Toxic chemicals and their precursors, except where intended for purposes not prohibited under this Convention..."
Moving now to paragraph 9 of the same article: "'Purposes Not Prohibited Under This Convention' means: [...] (c) Military purposes not connected with the use of chemical weapons and not dependent on the use of the toxic properties of chemicals as a method of warfare;"
Put them together and what have you got? (No, not 'Bibbity boppity boo') You've got this: Phosphorous (white or red, and there are munitions that use both), if used for military purposes not involving poisoning people, is not a 'chemical weapon' (burning people, by the way, is not the same as poisoning them - and I've yet to hear the morons bleating about phosphorous burns complain when a soldier gets ripped apart by fragments of white-hot steel from an exploding IED). A lead bullet doesn't constitute a chemical weapon when you shoot it into someone, even though lead is toxic. You're not using lead to poison the person, after all; you're using it to makes holes in him. There's a difference.
Phosphorous is also used as an illuminating agent in tracer rounds. Does that mean that every 5th bullet that comes out of a .50 calibre machine gun is also a 'chemical weapon'?
The definition of a 'chemical weapon' in the Convention is intent-based; if you're not intending to poison people with a given substance, then the substance is not a 'chemical weapon', no matter how toxic it might be. Generating smoke is clearly a purpose not prohibited by the CWC, which means that WP smoke rounds are not chemical weapons. Many of the other very toxic chemicals used by militaries are also not 'chemical weapons' because they're not used "to cause, through chemical action on life processes, death, temporary incapacitation, or permanent harm to humans or animals" (Art II, para 2).
Let's keep it real, here, or pretty soon the Huffington Post will be trying to ban toothpicks because wood is made of cellulose, and OH GOD, THAT'S A CHEMICAL TOO!
By the way, Israel - like its neighbours, Egypt and Syria - is not a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention, and therefore is not bound by its provisions. Something to think about.
Posted by: Arms control guy at January 09, 2009 12:32 PM (JO1Py)
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I hope the administrator of this website respects free speech because this may test some of the views I've read. The use of WP gets complicated.
Assuming the 116 each, WP saturated felt wedges released by a 155 mm M825A1 WP smoke projectile can cause burns deep into tissue if it lands on a person... assuming burning WP is extremely difficult to put out when it gets on the skin (remember from basic training?)... assuming that, unlike other burns, painful chemical burns due to the absorption of phosphorus into the body through the burned area can result in liver, heart and kidney damage, and in some cases multi-organ failure . . . assuming that half the human being on the ground in Gaza are civilians ... assuming half the civilians are children ... assuming you wouldn't want your child to experience a M825A1 round fired over their head at, say a 4th of July celebration ... then why is it okay for the country of Israel to do so?
This is not a high school football game where you yell "kill 'em." There are real, live, innocent children on the ground (and their mothers) and, be honest now, while use of WP rounds may be legal in warfare, is use of them in a densely populated civilian area, (knowing they likely are harming innocent civilians, including by the way, Palestine Christians), the moral way for a civilized nation to conduct a military operation?
Am I aware that Hamas has fired their rockets into civilian areas? Yes. Are you aware they have killed less than 10 people? Are you aware that use of disportionate force can be considered a war crime?
I agree with the argument made by the Israelis that we would not tolerate Mexico firing rockets on San Diego for as long as they have tolerated it from Humas. They make a good point.
I know eliminating the Hamas problem the moral way would cause a few more casualties on the Israeli side. Isn't the moral thing what the good guys do? Everyone knows Humas is outgunned a thousand to one in this conflict. Why can't Israel show a little moral restraint expected of a civilized country???
Unfortunately, military forces often must take place in civilian areas. Military Law only regards as criminal those deaths or injuries to civilians in a war zone that are caused by deliberate (i.e. not accidental) attacks on civilians by military forces, "OR" by grossly disproportionate use of force, in EXCESS of what military necessity provides for, against a military objective in close proximity to civilians or civilian buildings. Oops!
This is just my $.02. God bless you and your children and all the innocent children we are obligated to protect.
Posted by: Retired 28 year U.S. Army Vet at January 10, 2009 07:04 PM (BCjkl)
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Are you aware that use of disportionate force can be considered a war crime?
I would expect a 28 year veteran to know that the assessment of 'proportionate' or 'disproportionate' is based on if the civilian casualties inflicted are reasonable with regards to the objective the operation was intended to achieve.
It most definitely does not mean you only get to inflict as many casualties on the other side as you have sustained.
I would also expect that a 28 year veteran would know that the presence of civilians very explicitly does not make it illegal to attack a military target- and positioning civilians in proximity to such a target is a war crime by the party that puts the civilians in proximity to the target.
This is basic stuff.
As far as the children are concerned, it's a damn shame their parents didn't do a better job of finding people who aren't murderous lunatics to run their country. Now they get to deal with the consequences. Hopefully they will do a better job next time. For their part, the Israelis seem determined to reduce the number of murderous lunatics in Gaza.
Posted by: rosignol at January 12, 2009 12:39 AM (aAePs)
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Retired 28 &c,
"OR" by grossly disproportionate use of force, in EXCESS of what military necessity provides for, against a military objective in close proximity to civilians or civilian buildings."
You raise a point, sir.
However, isn't the idea (and I say this as one with no military experience) to make sure the balance of forces is grossly disproportionate? This strikes me as similar to the argument that the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel on a daily were not terribly accurate and therefore the Israelis are being mean by being more accurate and effective.
Israel is at war against an existential threat. They are trying to win that war. The way to win, really win, any war is to kill enough of the other side that the survivors sue for peace-on your terms-to stop the killing. The civilians elected the savages to run the government. I don't like to say it, but they have only themselves to blame for the consequences.
Posted by: irish19 at January 12, 2009 01:40 AM (6aeB2)
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Existential treat? Here's an old article about who Israel considers an existential threat: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1128/p06s01-wome.html
Is Gaza an "existential" threat to Israel? Absolutely not. Is Iran? Absolutely. Would Israel like to bomb Iran while we have troops in Iran? I don't know but some sources think so: http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2009/01/11/us_denied_israeli_bid_for_bunker_buster_bombs/
(You may also want to read the reader comments below it). If Israel is allowed to employ unrestrained military force in the region, will our 140,000 troops in Iraq be at risk? Will we ever get out of there?
We put the cost of the Iraq war on our credit card, meaning your kids pay for it. Who pays for the next one, your grandchildren? We're not just talking about the children of Gaza, we're talking about OUR children.
Look guys, Israel is our ally, but are they concerned with our best interests? Would it serve their purposes if the U.S. keeps troops in the middle east "FOREVER?" How could they make this happen? Maybe the unrestrained use of force against Iraq, which the Bush administration is trying to prevent. If we continually accept Israel's use of unrestrained force, will it serve our country's needs?
I seriously doubt we can EVER get out of Iraq if Israel is allowed to conduct unrestrained military operations. Isn't it time we consider our own interests.
Again, just my $.02 which is about all ANY of us will have for retirement if we keep paying for wars on credit. The United States is now in about the same condition as England after WWII, out of resources. Think about it.
These are only my thoughts. I don't intend to enter an endless debate, so I'm signing off.
Blessing to all of you. I know each of you is doing your absolute best to be a good citizen of our country and has it's interests at heart.
Posted by: Retired 28 year U.S. Army Vet at January 12, 2009 03:16 PM (fr0IU)
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January 06, 2009
Reuters: In The Service of Hamas
I've got post at Pajamas Media highlighting Reuters using deceptive captions to suggest that photos capturing the deployment of defensive flares (uses to thwart heat-seeking surface-to-air missiles) are weapons being fired on targets in Gaza.
This is an Israeli helicopter deploying a weapon (a Hellfire, most likely), as is
this. No one with any competence could ever confuse a bomb, missile, or rocket with a flare.
Associated Press photographer Ariel Schalit can ever photograph and properly label both missiles and flares
in the same picture.
Reuters, masters of fauxtography, don't even try.
It doesn't serve their interests of cashing in on anti-Israeli propaganda by selling biased and inflammatory photos to an always-enraged Islamist-friendly media in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:34 PM
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So - what else is new?!?!
Posted by: SShiell at January 07, 2009 08:06 AM (nQ6kb)
2
"No one with any competence" pretty much excludes Al Reuters.
Posted by: Old_dawg at January 07, 2009 10:30 AM (7nc0l)
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I can't recall where, but I recently saw some MSM bit of hackery referring to Israel deploying "flare bombs". Uh, yeah.
Posted by: Pablo at January 07, 2009 10:31 PM (yTndK)
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Sacrificial Wolves
It was only a matter of time—Israeli counter-battery radar isolated Hamas mortar shells as they rose, and a computer algorithm quickly did the geometry and isolated the GPS coordinates of the launch location before the terrorist-fired bombs even began their descent.
Israeli counter-fire aimed at the launch site was likely in the air before the Hamas-fired shells impacted near their target of Israeli civilians.
When the Israeli shells impacted the Hamas launch site—a school—the terrorists got
just what they wanted.
Israeli forces fighting Hamas in the Gaza Strip struck a school run by the United Nations, killing at least 30 Palestinians hiding in the compound, a UN official said. Israel said it was returning fire from the school.
Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for the UN Relief and Works Agency in Jerusalem, said in a phone interview he could confirm 30 dead and 55 injured, 15 critically, as the result of three Israel artillery shells hitting the school in northern Gaza.
The Israeli army said in a faxed statement late today that its investigations showed that "among the dead in the school were members of the military wing of the Hamas terror organization and a cell firing rockets and mortars at Israeli forces in the area."
Time and again, Hamas terrorists have fired weapons from schools, residential areas, hospitals, and mosques. Often these same sites have been used to store weaponry as well.
An Isreali drone captured a similar Hamas mortar attack launched from the exact same U.N. school two years ago.
Anti-Israeli hypocrites in the world’s media and Islamo-fascist states constantly cry that Israel is guilty of "war crimes" for returning fire against the aggression of various state-sponsored Islamic terrorist groups along its borders, and no doubt will rally against today’s casualties as an example of such.
What they will not admit—and perhaps ideologically, cannot—is that it is Hamas that is clearly guilty of multiple war crimes by any objective measure, as they continually embed militant forces inside civilian structures, population centers, and fire weaponry from within civilian enclaves that they use as human shields.
Perhaps equally as shameful is that the naked hatred of Palestinian culture towards Isreal is so extreme is that even non-combatants are more than willing to have themselves used as human shields, as they view the deaths of their own population as martyrs in a media war as an acceptable cost of attempting genocide against their Jewish neighbors.
Hamas militants did not have to force themselves into this school that recent reports suggest doubled as a weapons depot and firing position, nor in any of the dozens of residential neighborhoods, schools, mosques, and hospitals they’ve illegally weaponized in decades of terrorism. No, they were accepted willingly by Palestinians equally as bent on the destruction of Israel.
Indoctrinated by
terror-loving, Jew-demonizing characters from birth on Palestinian television in a culture that lives to hate, fight, and die, there are no innocents here.
The high number of casualties in this particular incident suggests a similar patterns as in previous conflicts. Adoring Palestinians stood too close for too long after their terrorist heroes fired mortars at Israeli civilians. The Palestinians gathered around the launch site to watch munitions being fired against Israel simply didn’t anticipate the speed and accuracy of the Israeli response, and Israeli counter-battery fire detonating additional Hamas weaponry at the school only made the carnage worse.
There is a simple way out of such constant death and misery in Gaza for the Palestinians, a solution the Israelis had hoped for in 2005 when they pulled out of Gaza, giving the Palestinians a chance to form their own state, with their own government.
Instead of prospering and building a future for their children, they squandered their chance, choosing agony and a futile, constant war against an Israeli state that gave them a clear chance for peace and prosperity.
Hamas responded with violence.
All the dead of this war are on the heads of Hamas and the Palestinians that embrace and support them. There are no innocent lambs being slaughtered in Gaza.
Only the deaths of wolves.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:12 PM
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"All the dead of this war are on the heads of Hamas and the Palestinians that embrace and support them. There are no innocent lambs being slaughtered in Gaza."
Indeed. Israel left them businesses, greenhouses, everything that one would have to build to create a nation, and the ragheads destroyed it all. Just so not to take anything from the Jooooos, not to owe them any gratitude. Then they continued attacking. They need to be destroyed, and the earth salted.
Posted by: cmblake6 at January 06, 2009 08:23 PM (QSVQf)
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My brother and I used to love tormenting hornets. We would throw rocks, hickory nuts or other stuff at their nests. We would hide and watch them buzz around for a few minutes and they would go back to their nests and buzz for some time there.
Then we decided to pop a big one with a .22 rifle. The hornets zeroed in on us and I got nailed several times until we outran them. My brother got nailed also. Guess what? We went back much later, picked up our rifle, and never messed with hornets again. We survived, and there are as many hornet nests as ever.
You probably guessed the moral of this true story. You do what happened before and on 9/11/01 and you have consequences.
You rocket and mortar attack your neighbor and then increase attacks you get stung big time.
Kill them Israel, and let God sort them out. Palestinians, you really don't want this at home. get your kids out of this.
Posted by: Marc Boyd at January 06, 2009 11:38 PM (Zoziv)
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BTW I am an old Veteran and speak from many years experience. God bless America and our serving Volunteers. You guys are the Best!
Posted by: Marc Boyd at January 06, 2009 11:43 PM (Zoziv)
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I sympathize with Israel and also deplore the civilian deaths.
Not to make light of those innocents killed in this, but if your town was under attack, why were you sending your kids to school (especially one where Hamas was hiding). I mean, if my town was being attacked I would grab the kids and head for the basement (if I had a basement that is).
Posted by: Anthony at January 07, 2009 09:25 AM (hMQke)
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Looks like the "Baby Milk Factory" gambit has finally run its course. If the whole country is a Baby Milk Factory and yet it errupts rocket and mortar fire regularly, well, then the Baby Milk Factory has got to go, Baby Milk or no Baby Milk. Has anyone noticed that now that the Grads have hit the fan that you never hear how Hamas is the elected representative of her constituents anymore? I seem to remember when the talk was about how Hamas can become a partner for peace since the pullout, being finally a legit gub for the Palis. Its what they always wanted, right? Did Hamas get the Barack treatment? Oh no, there was never any need to hide the true intent of Hamas. Not from the Pals anyhow. Their program of jew extermination was a real winner electorally. Unintended consequences bite even in the dusty stalls of Gaza.
Posted by: megapotamus at January 07, 2009 11:26 AM (LF+qW)
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For 8 years Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel from civilian positions. For 8 years Israel has been told to wait and talk to them. Israeli patience has ended. And now Hamas is getting back its just deserts.
The teacher at the school who was in charge of rockets was fired by the UN. But that was after years of using the school (with the administration's knowledge) to fire rockets.
Posted by: Katie at January 08, 2009 12:23 AM (fYJgw)
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Anthony,
Their one of two options in hamas territory, they are either all civilians or they are all muslim fanatics seeking death, the latter is the correct answer in case you don't get it.
Evan
Posted by: Evan at January 08, 2009 07:58 PM (sIJnp)
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January 05, 2009
Dear Terrorist Supporters: White Phosphorus is Not an Illegal Weapon
Pro-terrorist shills like this clueless twit give other leftist beards for Islamofascist oppression a bad name.
War Crime du Jour: Israel Deploys White Phosphorus Shells
When regarding the Christmas massacre conducted against the captive population of Palestine by the Israeli army in the name of the people of Israel's security, one is left to wonder: How deeply into Israel's vast arsenal must the IDF dig before the world's leaders act?
Do we wait until the nuclear option is put on the table? "Bunker busters" are already deployed; cluster bombs and the usual array of missiles, bombs, and bullets rained down on civilians and the civilian infrastructure. Hospitals, universities, police stations, mosques, and apartment blocks. Have we missed anything?
Just reality.
White phosphorus is in the inventory of most of the world's major military forces, including the United States, Great Britain, Russia. It is used for smoke screens, for signaling, and incendiary uses.
Global Security
states it bluntly:
Israel used White Phosphorus against HAMAS targets in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead in January 2009. This violated no international laws or conventions.
White Phosphorus in Gaza (as it was in Lebanon) is clearly being deployed as an obscurant, laying down a smoke screen to prevent Hamas terrorists from seeing advancing Israeli forces.
This is done to save the lives of soldiers from being targeted with IEDs and sniper fire, and—though leftists refuse to admit it— to also hopefully save the lives of Palestinian civilians by allowing Israeli soldiers to engage Hamas terrorists at close range with rifle and machine gun fire, rather than use more destructive arial bombing and artillery fire.
As for the "bunker busters" alluded to by the deluded author above, the
GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb, it too is designed to save lives by using
minimal destructive force:
At just 5.9 feet long and 285 pounds, the bomb’s small size increases the number of weapons an aircraft can carry, therefore raising the amount of targets it can kill in one sortie. Because of its size and precision accuracy, it also reduces collateral, or unintended, damage in the target vicinity.
It is a small bomb that uses far less explosives that the 500-lb, 1000-lb, and 2000-lb bombs that air forces have had to rely upon in the past that could level several buildings or even a city block even with a precision strike, and being a bunker buster exploding below ground, it further decreases the threat of shrapnel and blast forces to innocent civilians.
As for the blackened bodies in Lebanon he cites as evidence of atrocities... well that was
conclusively debunked, as was the fiction pushed by pro-insurgent leftists about the use of WP in
Fallujah.
Keep your eyes out: you'll be seeing more of this pro-terrorist propaganda in the days ahead.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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The only war crimes / violations of the Geneva Conventions are being committed by Hamas. Storing explosives and other military equipment in schools and mosques; firing from schools, mosques, and any area occupied by civilians, without removing the civilians as Hamas and only Hamas is obligated to do; concealing armed terrorists in hospitals.
All of these are violations of the Geneva Conventions. Any organization or persons doing this are no longer civilians, or soldiers (since they are not wearing any distinguishing marks), and are not entitled to ANY protection under the Geneva Conventions.
These scum are subject to being killed on sight. And the Israelis do not have to exercise any more care than that which allows the achievement of the military objective: dead Hamas terrorists.
Posted by: SDN at January 06, 2009 12:50 AM (qNntG)
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At this point, if the Palestinians or the leftists were to say the sky is blue, I'd go out and check first.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at January 06, 2009 05:08 AM (HG6DM)
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Ah...Willie Pete...the gift that keeps on giving.
Tom
Posted by: Tom at January 06, 2009 12:47 PM (siplW)
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If anyone is ever lobbing missiles at the US with the intention of killing Americans, I hope that the US would all force necessary to MAKE THEM STOP!
I'm sorry that the civilian population of Gaza elected them, and I'm sorry that they hide within the civilian population, but they must be made to stop the rocket attacks on Israel.
Posted by: Mike S at January 06, 2009 01:23 PM (p+gAj)
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The left is still shreiking about the WP. They have to know that they're lying. Wow.
I've had close Liberal friends tell me that VX nerve agent "doesn't count", while WP does. Pretty nuts.
If we started using VX, you can bet their previous claims would go down the memory hole.
Posted by: brando at January 06, 2009 01:34 PM (qzOby)
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you killed their web page!
i tried to call up the web page and all i can get from them is an error message that reads in part: "Table 'jos_session' is marked as crashed and should be repaired....."
you're as effective as WP, and probably as unpopular in certain circles. %-)
Posted by: redc1c4 at January 06, 2009 03:21 PM (vLw7K)
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The left are propagandists, intent only on destroying the free world and putting it under the control of anyone but free world capitalists.
Posted by: cmblake6 at January 06, 2009 08:26 PM (QSVQf)
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The "liberals" do not have to manufacture any atrocities. The Israelis are doing a great job providing them for eveyone to clearly see.
Oh and by the way WP is not used for a smoke screen. It burns at very hot temperatures and is made to stick to human skin.
Posted by: TG at January 10, 2009 08:06 AM (c/izp)
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Conquer and destroy evil, free the people of Palestine from the rape of Hamas then free the people of Lebanon from the terror of the invaders. May God bless Israel.
Posted by: Jennifer Pfeifer at January 10, 2009 04:46 PM (uKemT)
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Not Quite Dead Yet
Yes, I've been a slack blogger lately, but I'm merely resting up for four years of pure comedy gold that the Obama Administration promises to be.
Panetta? Really? I guess was Stephanopoulos too busy.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:05 PM
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Pining for the fjords, are you?
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at January 05, 2009 10:23 PM (HG6DM)
2
Resting? Do you think Rahm Emanuel is resting? Do you think Hillary Rodham Clinton is resting? Pfft! Gird up your loins. The next four years will be rough.
Posted by: Don, the Rebel without a Blog at January 06, 2009 03:17 AM (CD9hs)
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Well, there hasn't even been the inauguration and the wheels are in opposite ditches so quick action may be rewarded. We haven't seen Barry burned in effigy yet but a Barack mask... my fave pic of him, drawing on a ciggie... has appeared in an Islamist parade with a couple Israeli figures. The Bushification of Obama is already underway. Can even our Leftwing citizens miss it?
Posted by: megapotamus at January 06, 2009 11:11 AM (LF+qW)
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We're under the presumption that the left will allow the continuation of the VRWC. You know that the 1A is as pointless as the 2A to them.
Posted by: cmblake6 at January 06, 2009 08:28 PM (QSVQf)
5
Gold Bless Our President and President Elect.
Posted by: SuzieQ at January 11, 2009 12:50 AM (nuFgL)
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December 31, 2008
Happy New Year
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:47 PM
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And a Happy New Year to you. Sure hope it's better than this one.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 31, 2008 11:13 PM (HG6DM)
2
Happy New Year!
~T the D
http://thedrunkelephant.blogspot.com/
Posted by: T the D at January 01, 2009 11:23 AM (9cBPS)
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Ending Gaza
Let's put this bluntly: the Gaza Strip is a failed non-state run by terrorists pledged to genocide and dreaming of a second Holocaust. It has no discernible reason to exist other than to hate; no notable exports greater than the crude rockets and mortars targeting Israeli civilians for merely daring to exist.
Lets end it. It was a mistake. It's time to close Gaza.
Empty the 1.4 million Gazans living in squalor into the surrounding Arab nations who helped make it a modern Hell. Send them to Egypt. Syria. Jordan. Lebanon. Let these nations deal with the extremism they've midwifed by absorbing the bastard Arabs of the Middle East into their own societies.
Granted, such a repatriation will be welcomed by neither the Arabs of Gaza nor the nations who have to host the violent illiteracy and religious extremism they helped create.
But it is the only viable long-term solution for peace.
And an idea long overdue.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I agree, Gaza should become a buffer zone with nothing allowed to grow or be build over ankle high. A massive carpet bombing campaign should do the trick and close the rat holes the Mooslimes have dug all over the land of murder and rape.
Posted by: Scrapiron at December 31, 2008 11:49 AM (I4yBD)
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I second the carpet bombing idea. . . I am just not sure they should let them out of the area first. The terrorists living there will just fight from their new home if given a chance. . ..
Posted by: JD at December 31, 2008 12:20 PM (VyXDV)
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Good idea, but I think all those countries will resist violently. They know what has been created and will resist. But that would be nice to see.
Posted by: Federale at December 31, 2008 12:54 PM (H1JJq)
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lots of empty land in Saudi Arabia......
Posted by: redc1c4 at December 31, 2008 01:06 PM (vLw7K)
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With one small difference I will agree totally. Just substitute "palestine" for Gaza.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at December 31, 2008 01:18 PM (nHlbs)
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One Israeli nuke-- send those chernozhopi straight to Hell.
Posted by: Ivan Ivanovich Renko at December 31, 2008 01:23 PM (RABxQ)
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Proposal for a durable cease-fire: Give the Hammies one week. Count the number of rockets fired over the border in that week. Destroy everything, animate or otherwise, starting from the boarder and proceeding one meter west for every rocket during the baseline week. Repeat as necessary with a multiplier of two, then three and so on. Even if no one has the stomach for that (yet) stop feeding these scum as well as providing them energy, medical care and whatever else is the largess of Israel, the US and the UN. These pukes are pirates at best. Anyone with a claim to being a "moderate" Palastinian had best demonstrate that through deeds, pronto.
Posted by: megapotamus at December 31, 2008 02:06 PM (LF+qW)
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 31, 2008 02:38 PM (HG6DM)
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While we're at it, make sure we deal with the Cynthia McKinneys attempting to aid the terrorists.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at December 31, 2008 02:51 PM (M+Vfm)
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Yeah, did McKinney's canoe get searched? I wonder if it was all baby-milk and Band-Aids.
Posted by: megapotamus at December 31, 2008 03:10 PM (LF+qW)
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"But it is the only viable long-term solution for peace"
Indeed. It could almost be called the "Final Solution" to the "Palestinian Problem".
Cheers
Posted by: Oyka at December 31, 2008 03:38 PM (qb2YA)
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Oh, I know I know hear me out...Maybe you should suggest that we round up all these Gazans...perhaps COCENTRATE them all together in one spot (a camp or camps if you will) or in several places.
Genius!!!!
Posted by: Oyka at December 31, 2008 03:48 PM (qb2YA)
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Oyka -
Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan already do just that. And since they have no birthright citizenship laws, children born in the CONCENTRATEs have no Lebabon, Syrian, or Jordanian citizenship.
Boy that sucks, huh?
Posted by: Adriane at December 31, 2008 04:05 PM (W7nzI)
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Mega, makes no difference to me if it IS all baby milk and bandaids. Aiding and abetting the terrorists, is aiding and abetting, no matter what it is you're shipping to them.
Cynthia McKinney should be IMMEDIATELY placed under arrest upon touching US soil.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at December 31, 2008 04:18 PM (M+Vfm)
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Cato the Elder had the right idea:
"Carthage must be destroyed."
The words are supposed to be have been repeated by Cato at the end of every speech he made in the senate, after his visit to Carthage in 175 B.C., when he became obsessed by the military threat posed by the city. It was eventually destroyed by Rome at the end of the Third Punic War in 146 B.C.
Contrary to legend, the soil of Carthage was not sown with salt.
The Palis should suffer Carthage's fate. But it won't happen.
Posted by: miriam at December 31, 2008 05:16 PM (p7QDM)
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Kill everybody and let god sort them out seems to be your line.
No wonder the rest of the world things you are crazy, still as Bush has the man from Manchuria has wrecked your economy you wont be able to kill as many people in 2009 as 2008.
Posted by: Derek Wall at December 31, 2008 07:12 PM (EWJ1+)
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Great idea, but won't work because the presnt situation is exactly what the Arabs states want it to be. They invented the notion of "Palestine" as a proxy for their continuously failed wars of extermiantion against Israel. Not only do the hapless Palis do all the bleeding and suffering and dying on their behalf, but Israel gets transformed from David into Goliath and instantly becomes a bully in world opinion, for the heinous crime of defending itself.
Derek, we don't give a rat's ass for the opinion of what you delusionally claim is "the rest of the world." You're a bloody handed accessory to genocide, feel free to STFU - or better yet, go stand in front of a Hamas missile factory as a subhuman shield.
Posted by: Steve Skubinna at December 31, 2008 07:32 PM (Vcyz0)
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Killing the Palestinians won't solve the problem. It will only infuriate the Arabs, who will then become an even greater problem than the Palestinians.
No, the only solution is to kill them all, Palestinians and Israeli's alike - just sterilize the whole area and start over with the Amish.
Posted by: M. Onan Batterload at December 31, 2008 10:07 PM (bV7Pv)
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Kill everybody and let god sort them out seems to be your line.
Did you read that somewhere, Derek? Did you read the post? What does it say? As for your second sentence, don't drink and type. It never works out well.
Posted by: Pablo at December 31, 2008 11:13 PM (yTndK)
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This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 1/1/2009, at The Unreligious Right
Posted by: UNRR at January 01, 2009 11:21 AM (uKBSQ)
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The great irony is that the Palestinians could be rich if they wanted to be. If they took all the aid money they receive and used it to build an infrastructure and businesses instead of spending it on munitions and feathering the nests of Hamas leaders, they'd be leading very comfortable lives. Consider Gaza - that is prime beachfront property. And the Pals took it over and trashed it.
But peace and prosperity isn't what they're interested in - not when there are Jews around to kill.
Never have a people been so undeserving of sympathy - and yet the murderous SOB's get it from moronic tools the world over. Why? Well, let's put it this way - the Palis are very, very fortunate to have the enemies they do. If other Arabs were killing them, nobody would pay attention or give a damn.
Posted by: Donna V. at January 01, 2009 10:14 PM (rTyiR)
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Saudi Arabia needs foreign workers....half of the O/S foreigners could then be released to return to their homes.....problem is, the koran forbids having muslims as slaves and that messes up the Saudi plan. Guess they'll have to send them all to Lebanon. Lebanon is a palestinian controlled Iranian puppet now anyway and the thugs from Gaza and the West Bank would fit right in(after, of course, a bunch of gangland style killings and suicide bombings to sort out the heirarchy). The remaining Labanese that haven't yet moved to Dearborn, Michigan or Chicago will have to hash out living arrangements for the rest of the palestinians. That will give Israel a couple years of respite to salt the borders with minefields and resettle Gaza and West Bank with settlers. Cool plan eh?
Posted by: Tonto at January 02, 2009 11:53 AM (Qv1xF)
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Tonto,
As a 2nd generation American whose paternal grandfather (and his father and grandfather) emigrated from northern Lebanon, I take exception to sending more murderous blankety-blanks to one of my ancestral homelands.
Of course, if it leads those blankety-blanks to their ultimate doom I'm all for it

Posted by: PhyCon at January 02, 2009 12:19 PM (4od5C)
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Prior to the 1967 war, Gaza was part of Egypt (or at least administered by Egypt) and the West Bank was administered by Jordan. In the Camp David accords, Egypt wanted the Sinai back (minus settlers) but didn't demand/ask for Gaza as far as I can tell.
So whose fault is it the arabs in West Bank and Gaza don't have a country?
Posted by: iconoclast at January 02, 2009 01:15 PM (ddU4M)
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The funny thing, iconoclast, is the timeline.
So, in 1967, Gaza was part of Egypt, and the West Bank was part of Jordan.
But when was the Palestine Liberation Organization (dedicated to liberating Palestine) founded? 1965!
So, what, exactly, was the PLO seeking to liberate?
All of a sudden, it would seem that the PLO, and the Palestinians in general as well as their Arab backers, weren't so much interested in liberating Gaza and the West Bank, as Tel Aviv, Haifa, and all the other parts of Israel, pre-1967.
Posted by: Lurking Observer at January 02, 2009 01:34 PM (6FBvO)
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So you want a genocide? Stay classy, should get you back into power real soon.
Posted by: WOW at January 03, 2009 11:50 AM (6oxG5)
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WOW, I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Everyone "knows" that civilians are just packed into Gaza, right? And the Israelis are armed with a full arsenal of modern weapons, from F-16s and cluster munitions to multiple launch rocket systems.
So, how many casualties have there been in the past five days? Five hundred? A thousand?
This must mean that the Jews are some of the most incompetent genocidal murderers out there, because with this massive arsenal of weapons, they can't kill more than 100-200 people a day! And this, with minimal anti-aircraft barrages and no SAMs from Hamas.
It almost raises the question, given this incredible level of incompetence, why Hamas hasn't liberated all of Israel by now!
That, or maybe your terms and concepts are wildly out of whack.
Naaaahhhhh.
Posted by: Lurking Observer at January 03, 2009 12:45 PM (6FBvO)
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Moderate Palestinians?
I think they all left for more stable, secure places long ago. Only the terrorists and those too poor to leave are left now.
Posted by: AngryConservative at January 03, 2009 09:01 PM (jSsV8)
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One question: How many Palestinian lives are worth an Israeli's. Because I see the current response as very unproportional. Hamas launches simple rockets that manage to kill few over a few years (although not taking into account the psychological toll). In response Israel launches airstrikes and now a ground invasion that has managed to kill hundreds more, dozens if not hundreds of those being innocent civlians (they are not all Hamas).
So what is it? Is an innocent Israeli worthy of life as much as an innocent Palestinian because I hear very little regard when Israel destroys innocent Palestinians. And as it turns out, in this conflict more innocent Palestinian blood has been spilt and is on the hands of Israel than innocent Israeli blood on the hands of both Hamas and Fatah over the WHOLE course of this conflict.
Nobody will deny that more Palestinians have died.
Posted by: Oyka at January 03, 2009 10:57 PM (DG9kt)
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Nice try, Oyka. Sorry, but I for one refuse to play this game of goal-post shifting.
You start the fight, you're gonna have to pay for it.
The Palestinians fire rockets at the Israelis, they're going to pay for it. To throw the first punch (or several dozen or several hundred over several years) and then to cry "Foul!" because the other side shellacks you is nonsense.
If you break my little finger every week, does this mean that I am not allowed, after a year, to do more than break your little finger?
That is neither just, nor supporting the concept of deterrence.
That's just the philosophical problem w/ your "argument." That doesn't touch on just how many of those "civilians" are Hamas (at least you admit that many of them are). That doesn't touch on how Hamas is based AMONG civilians. That doesn't touch on how Hamas refuses to allow wounded Gazans to get medical care even in Egypt. (Whose fault is that, Oyka? The Zionists?)
By this "logic," the US should have stopped after the several thousand sailors killed at Pearl Harbor had been equaled by the number of Japanese killed?
But somehow, from your previous comments, I suspect you don't actually give a fig about the sons of apes and pigs. I don't think you give a fig about how Hamas brought the fire down upon Gazans, nor about how they have had no regard for Gazan casualties.
Which is why I won't bother wasting time with you.
Posted by: Lurking Observer at January 04, 2009 12:41 AM (Wrs4H)
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Oyka,
Lurking is correct. If one country starts a war, no sane individual is going to listen to them when they complain about losing the very war they started.
If Mexico was shelling El Paso on a daily basis, I would expect that the USA would do more than just lob a few grenades back over the Rio Grande.
Posted by: Angry Conservative at January 04, 2009 06:40 AM (jSsV8)
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Oyka, what would a "proportional" Israeli response look like? Should they just fire back into Gaza, rocket for rocket, mortar for mortar? Or should they just kill/maim a Gaza civilian for each Israeli that suffers the same fate?
Posted by: Pablo at January 04, 2009 12:45 PM (yTndK)
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The only problem with the idea of putting the Palestinians elsewhere is that there is no Arab government that would be willing to accept them. They have already been booted out of Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt because they became involved in those countries internal political processes. Their purpose was to de-stabilize those countries, and install a Pro-Palestinian government. Needless to say, the rulers of those countries had some issues with such plans.
The fact that that Hamas-led Palestinians are openly associated with and backed by Iran (Persians, not Arabs), makes Arab nations even less likely to accept them.
Posted by: Dan at January 05, 2009 06:34 AM (bEM7/)
34
The Arabs in the other countries don't give a rat's arse for Palestinians...if they did, they would simply repatriate them willingly, but they don't care.
I say Israel goes all the way, wipes out Hamas and Fatah, and whoever wants to live in peace can live under Israeli rule. Their life will be astronomically better under their care than under the current terrorist regime who have done nothing to promote the well-being of Palestinians.
Posted by: Richard Romano at January 05, 2009 04:17 PM (kycO9)
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"Hamas launches simple rockets that manage to kill few over a few years"
No doubt, a foolish, university educated leftist, taught well by his/her professors.
Posted by: Richard Romano at January 05, 2009 04:19 PM (kycO9)
36
Reading some of the troll posts, I am reassured that they are as stupid as ever. If not worse than before. Israel has been taking it, and taking it for YEARS. As someone said, how much are you supposed to take before you strike back? The entire purpose of Ham-Ass is to destroy Israel. So...what? Israel just lays down and dies? Would they?
Carpet bomb with neutrons. There is brainwashing from birth by these slime, so nothing must be left alive. Do you simply carve out the bulk of a cancerous tumor, or do you carve out everything you can detect and give chemo or radiation to kill any possible remaining cancer cells? It is a shame that these animals are programmed from birth. But they are. So in the interest of humanity this must be stopped, however is needed.
Posted by: cmblake6 at January 06, 2009 08:39 PM (QSVQf)
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December 30, 2008
IDF Starts Gaza YouTube Channel; Already Hit With Terms of Use Violations
The Isael Defense forces have started a YouTube channel to show the precision and care they are taking in destroying Hamas terrorist weapons dumps smuggling tunnels, and rocket launching sites located in residential areas by the terrorists. Hamas places the sites among homes and school in hopes that innocent civilians—particularly children—will be killed. Hamas can then use Palestinian and Arab cameramen with sympathies towards their cause to take pictures of the dead and wounded civilians for Hamas' propaganda war, which is typically waged via cameramen from Reuters, AFP, and the Associated Press.
Typically, as in the 2006 war with Hezbollah in Lebanon, these photos are stage managed to varying degrees, while a few are occasionally staged.
Some photos are staged by physically manipulating scenes for news photographers to photograph, though the primary way Hamas manipulates the media is to tightly control their access, limiting photographers to areas where they can take generally only take pictures of dead and wounded civilians and Hamas &qout;police," never allowing them access to photograph bombed weapons smuggling tunnels, missile launching sites, and other legitimate military targets.
The IDF YouTube channel is a vital dissemination tool to counter the propaganda photos staged by Hamas and willingly participated in by the world's media outlets, and so it is perhaps no real surprise that the channel itself is already under attack.
Several of the videos showing the Isreali Air Force hitting Hamas rocket launching sites with
GBU-39 precision-guided bombs have been flagged by pro-Hamas (or at least anti-Israeli) users and momentarily removed for terms of use violations before being restored. Some have been removed and
have not been restored. Expect this online battle to continue, and perhaps intensify.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
The American press has been doing the same thing to us for years, working the message till it no longer resembles the truth. The MSM is the counterpart to Hamas, Conservative websites are the counterpart to the IDF.
We have to teach our children how to go find the truth now. It does not appear at the simple flip of a TV on button.
Posted by: JK at December 30, 2008 12:37 PM (Z7PN0)
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Seems like a "TrueTube" service is needed.
Posted by: Kevin at December 30, 2008 12:48 PM (roJck)
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The IDF should start a channel at LiveLeak instead.
Posted by: Craig at December 30, 2008 12:51 PM (mEJO6)
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As a beginning, you see the shortcomings of you tube.
The IDF needs to start a site owned by the Israeli government, hosted on hardware they own, and hooked up to backbone they control (leased to Israeli government)(, and protected from hackers by Israeli employees (government or contract)
If they can find reliable hosting elsewhere, they can always redirect the links later. (and if the hosting doesn't prove reliable they can take it back "inhouse").
Probably a distributed node network architecture, but all the hardware should be in Israel or Israel's embassies.
yanking utility service to embassies because you don't like what they are saying violates "international law".
Posted by: J'hn1 at December 30, 2008 12:55 PM (+A1UB)
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Good to see the IDF following MNFIRAQ into cyberspace!
Posted by: desertdweller at December 30, 2008 12:58 PM (26nvS)
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The IDF should start a channel at LiveLeak instead.
No, use both.
Demonstrating what YouTube won't show is just as important as the video itself.
Posted by: edh at December 30, 2008 12:59 PM (OjT5k)
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Why doesn't the IDF just buy YouTube or start their own video hosting site. They could call it "JewTube"
(don't flame me, folks, it's just a joke. OK?)
Posted by: Ralph Gizzip at December 30, 2008 01:01 PM (9UpXS)
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there's an MIT website which features all video that's been deleted by YouTube -- called YouTomb -- available at youtube.mit.edu (I haven't yet checked the YouTomb site for any youtube deleted IDF videos).
Posted by: J.S. at December 30, 2008 01:01 PM (P7eMS)
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correction: make that "youtomb.mit.edu" (for deleted YouTube videos).
Posted by: J.S. at December 30, 2008 01:03 PM (P7eMS)
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"it's just a joke. OK"
and a funny one at that.
Posted by: Boyd at December 30, 2008 01:05 PM (0hVL5)
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Ralph, it was a lousy joke.
Posted by: Graham at December 30, 2008 01:05 PM (lxgQ7)
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That's what they did to me too. Censored by the Obamabots. This is a big problem that Google needs to figure out ASAP.
Posted by: cakesecret at December 30, 2008 01:05 PM (uUGtX)
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The IDF YouTube channel will be back up and running momentarily.
The AP is now reporting that beautiful Mossad agents have infiltrated YouTube HQ, seduced the staff, and incapacitated them all with poisoned lipstick.
Posted by: driver at December 30, 2008 01:50 PM (25C9v)
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They could also try Blip.tv
Posted by: SSG Jeff (USAR) at December 30, 2008 02:42 PM (UrQ4c)
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What? The media is allowing itself to be manipulated by one side of a political argument? I'm shocked, shocked! What are professional journalists doing to maintain their independence? They are professionals, aren't they? Hello? Hello? Anyone there? Hello? Oh, boy....
Posted by: Ed at December 30, 2008 02:51 PM (PCF7a)
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RE

don't flame me, folks, it's just a joke. OK?)
Posted by: Ralph Gizzip at December 30, 2008 01:01 PM
It's a type of joke that an antisemite would make.
Posted by: TT at December 30, 2008 02:55 PM (1IhU+)
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So much for "don't be evil".
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 30, 2008 03:21 PM (HG6DM)
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It could also be a comment that a Jew might make. I see no harm.
Posted by: Eric at December 30, 2008 03:28 PM (rawx6)
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the problem with the suggestions of other video hosting sites is that they don't get the traffic Youtube does. If the IDF wants a lot of people to see its material, especially people who aren't already pro-Israel, Youtube is the place to be.
On Youtube you can post a video as a response to another video. The IDF should do that with every jihadi video.
Posted by: Yehudit at December 30, 2008 03:33 PM (0Tzs7)
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I agree with Yehudit. I think the public relations war is almost as important as the real war against Hamas.
The IDF cannot rely on the international media since they are being led by the nose and are only reporting one side.
So you will always get stories where the IDF are commiting atrocities while Hamas are freedom fighters. So the IDF needs to counterattack on land as well as in cyberspace.
Posted by: Joemama at December 30, 2008 04:30 PM (MIJuy)
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I worked at Youtube owner Google for a year as a contractor. The political leanings of the majority of the employees was so extremely leftist that it was a bit uncomfortable for a moderate such as myself.
I am completely not surprised that the politics of the employees affects what is considered acceptable.
Posted by: Ogre at December 30, 2008 04:46 PM (mqYab)
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There IS a website called "Jewtube.com" and it appears to have Jewish and Israeli related video content on it.
Posted by: Bob in Houston at December 30, 2008 05:08 PM (sSr5k)
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I occasionally post vidblogs, and the most recent one I posted on YouTube was posted to be seen, but for some reason the "email" option was shut off (not because I did it...I tried to change it and it wouldn't let me). It was about the dangers of gun control. Friends had to pass it around the long way because YouTube deliberately shut off that feature for that particular vidblog.
Censorship takes many faces.
Posted by: MelMaguire at December 30, 2008 06:39 PM (sBm2i)
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How would someone in their right mind still believe they would get a fair shake from youtube?
Is this an example of Israeli intelligence?
Posted by: papertiger at December 30, 2008 06:52 PM (VFSPG)
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Hey, papertiger, what makes you suppose that the Israelis expected a fair shake from YouTube?
I'd be surprised if Israeli intelligence hadn't already wargamed the Google/YouTube octopus' response. Now that the lefty Googloctopus has been busted for acting on behalf of Hamas by pulling the plug on Israel's attempts to get its side of the story out, Israel wins because (a) there's more interest than ever in the IDF videos, (b) more people are hearing about how Paliwood fakes its propaganda stories, and (c) lefty Hamas-symps like the Googloctopus are discredited that much more. What's not to like?
Posted by: Micha Elyi at December 30, 2008 09:17 PM (6j2L1)
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Israel always creams the bad guys on the battlefield, then loses politically and in the media. Perhaps they are learning: there were some nice deception touches preceding the current war, an Israeli politico-military first.
Posted by: Bleepless at December 30, 2008 09:54 PM (2UF9E)
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Does anyone know the link to the IDF channel?
Posted by: Jax at December 30, 2008 10:09 PM (evI68)
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Two of the deleted IDF YouTube videos are now available via Powerline. The site is sluggish and the videos load v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y, probably because of the number of users attempting to view them.
The videos show the degree of care the IDF exercises in singling out active Hamas members, especially when compared to the indiscriminate rocket attacks by the terrorists.
Posted by: Just Askin' at December 30, 2008 10:11 PM (esv00)
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I suspect that if you look at the terms of use very closely, you'll find that being a zionist, advocating zionism, and portraying zionism in a positive light are per se terms of use violations.
But there's nothing in there about chopping off heads.
Posted by: Deuce Geary at December 30, 2008 10:27 PM (rZoaz)
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I saw something very interesting today on current TV. That's Al Gore's network where they play homemade (and otherwise) videos that pass the youtube filters. Only 100% AP, Google, Youtube, DNC, approved content, all the time.
What I saw was a twenty minute spot devoted to a masked Hamas fellow building a rocket, then shooting it at Israel.
It was produced by Collective Media.
Posted by: papertiger at December 31, 2008 10:05 AM (8lx0N)
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Videos of IDF striking Hamas
Here are some videos of the IDF bombing Hamas military targets. Reportedly, some of these videos have been removed from youtube.
Posted by: The Intellectual Redneck at December 31, 2008 10:27 AM (FMXM9)
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Jihadi videos and antisemitic videos ok on you tube, pro Israel truthful videos verboten. Google should be ashamed of itself, but that would require a conscience.
Posted by: eaglewingz08 at December 31, 2008 11:24 AM (qh8b9)
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December 29, 2008
Meanwhile, Back in Iraq...
While everyone seems to have shifted their gaze to track Gazans reaping what they've sown, CY commenter Big Country has been busy in Iraq, explaining to State Department VIPS how not to kill themselves and getting bombed... on tequila.
Kinda reminds me of a sandy version of Robert Earl Keen's
Merry Christmas From the Family, with body armor.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:10 AM
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1
Robert Earl is at least funny, this isn't. Maybe they do need tampons. Or something. I'm thinking Bloody Marys, because we all want one!
Posted by: Aubrey at December 30, 2008 12:01 AM (fir31)
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Thanks for the link Bob... we're doing GREAT here in Baghdad, and the Morale is FANTASTIC!! The grunts KNOW we won, and it shows... email me when you can...
Posted by: Big Country at December 30, 2008 11:19 AM (vuy4X)
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December 28, 2008
Because Monsters Are Always Monsters
From the "a zebra can't change its stripes" department comes this lovely story.
Hamas officials say 271 Palestinians have been killed and 600 wounded since Israel began its aerial assault on the Gaza Strip on Saturday, but none of the injured have yet left via Rafah.
Egypt has helicopters and doctors on standby at the Rafah crossing.
There are also up to 40 ambulances waiting to go into Gaza to bring out the most seriously wounded. Tonnes of medical supplies have arrived at the nearby airport of El-Arish.
But the Egyptian authorities say that, at the moment, they have no-one to treat.
Egypt's Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said the wounded were "barred from crossing" and he blamed "those in control of Gaza" for putting the lives of the injured at risk.
The same terrorist organization that Palestinians and leftists worldwide cheer for targeting innocent Israelis for death on a daily basis is now barring their own civilians from getting medical care in hopes of converting their wounded into dead—wailing processions for the media's cameras are the only effective anti-aircraft weapons in Hamas arsenal.
Gazans fail at killing, and when the are killed in response, they kill the survivors. If there has ever been an entire population that is pathological than this one, I'd be interested in knowing who they were. Various Palestinian factions seem intent on this conflict continuing until one side or the other is completely wiped out.
And most times, they don't even seem to care which side.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Who is more pathological? Try the US Congress, who after damaged the economy by throwing good money after bad in Social Security, ruined the economy by doing the same thing in the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae mortgage scam. But don't worry, they have a cure; They will throw good money after bad in a trillion dollar stimulus package.
But they will, of course, increase taxes, because they need the money...
In the defense of congress they are merely co-opting the government to commit random acts of theft, rather than random acts of murder. Alas, the progression from lies, to theft, to enslavement, to torture, to murder will continue as we continue on the path of socialism.
Posted by: Don Meaker at December 28, 2008 11:02 AM (y2oBR)
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Non sequitor in the house. So Don's argument is that Hamas isn't preventing their wounded from being treated, because he doesn't like US Congres?
That doesn't follow.
The mindset of Gaza is just insane. They were pretty boastful about throwing away the cease-fire, but I don't think they considered that cease-fires restrict both sides.
Posted by: brando at December 28, 2008 11:25 AM (gNIlp)
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Hamas asked for it and now they're getting it. They really want to raise casualties amoung civilians to garner sympathy.....but at the rate muz have been pissing off the whole world, I wonder how much sympathy they'll get outside of liberal enclaves. Regular real people are cheering! Rock on Israel!!!
Posted by: Tonto at December 28, 2008 11:38 AM (Qv1xF)
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Is it true that Hamas has legalized crucifiction???
Hamas is a group of cowardly terrorists who hide behind children and women, and they refuse to allow the injured civilians any medical aid, I am not surprised.
If crucification has been legalized then I must admit I am surprised and I wonder who they want to crucify.
My prayers are with Israel.
Posted by: duncan at December 28, 2008 01:44 PM (dmaed)
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Not pathological, just evil. They chose to be led by evil, and they gave themselves over to hatred and violence. If there is ever a clearer line between good and evil than between Israel and the Palestinians, I don't know what is.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 28, 2008 02:00 PM (HG6DM)
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Am Digest links to a Belmont Club piece saying what's said above ... only suggests there is a whole network of those who can't afford to see the conflicts end.
Perhaps so after watching this fiasco most of my life!
Posted by: John Gillmartin at December 28, 2008 04:47 PM (Vms1V)
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Am Digest - http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/AmericanDigest/~3/496837140/wretchard_on_mi.php - Belmont Club - http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/12/27/the-strike-on-hamas/#comment-50 - piece saying what's said above ... only suggests there is a whole network of those who can't afford to see the conflicts end.
Perhaps so after watching this fiasco most of my life!
Posted by: John Gillmartin at December 28, 2008 04:50 PM (Vms1V)
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Few people today realize just who the so-called Paletstinians are. There is not now, nor has there ever existed a sovereign state known as Palestine.
The people who call themselves Palestinians today are the descendants of violent terrorists who refused (and still refuse) to accept Israel's right to exist. Most left Israel after its formation and sought refuge in places like Jordan. However, they turned out to be so violent and troublesome that Jordan didn't want anything to do with them and kicked them out.
Their former leader wasn't even from the Trans-Jordan (what eventually became Israel). Arafat was an Egyptian.
Golda Meier said it best, "When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Jews, there will be peace".
Posted by: Da Possum at December 28, 2008 06:02 PM (g2f8B)
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This just became news when Israel started defending itself. Where was the media when the terrorists were bombing Israel??
Posted by: Jeff of Peoria at December 29, 2008 07:10 AM (rSMKO)
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Oh yeah...That's an easy one:
North Korea
Read Aquariums of Pyongyang and Reluctant Communist.
A well-sourced major motion picture about that screwed up nation would end up having credibility problems, because it would seem too much like fiction.
Really - read those books.
You'd think The Holocaust taught the world community some lessons --- I didn't...
Posted by: usinkorea at December 29, 2008 07:18 AM (O1meR)
11
One thing you can say for Hammas as opposed to Fatah or nearly any other gub in the ME, they were elected. And they did not conceal their nature from the electorate, nor was Fatah pitching Zionism or anything like it as an alternative. The Palistinians so-called did not merely vote for violence against Israel they chose the most violent faction of the jihadis on offer. To hell with the Palistinians, one and all. Let Israel bomb them from the border to the sea. When they have had enough of that let them demonstrate their good will by, say, declining to bomb Israel for six solid months. Failing this, drive them back where they came from; Jordan, Egypt and other dusty preserves of Islamic despoliation with lead and fire. They have aspired to nothing but the destruction of Israel, the murder of her babies, torture of her men and rape of her women. Kill them first. Kill them worse.
Posted by: megapotamus at December 29, 2008 12:20 PM (LF+qW)
12
"One thing you can say for Hammas as opposed to Fatah or nearly any other gub in the ME, they were elected."
So were Hitler and the National Socialist German's Workers Party (NAZIs)...
Posted by: Da Possum at December 29, 2008 01:09 PM (g2f8B)
13
I've been watching a lot of the main news channels and I noticed this didn't become news until Israel retaliated. Now it's a freakin' massacre? Where in the hell was the MSM when Hamas rained down rockets on Israel?
I just about can't stand it anymore- my grandma would say this right before she flung both hands in the air.
Posted by: southerngrace at December 29, 2008 01:55 PM (m+wgi)
14
>Who is more pathological? Try the US Congress
No, Hamas just legalized crucifixion.
Posted by: J.T. at December 31, 2008 04:06 PM (Iu0oa)
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Bombed in 30 Minutes or Less, Or Your Next One's Free
Israel has finally responded to extensive rocket attacks targeting their civilians with a surprise series of air strikes yesterday against more than 100 Hamas terrorist targets. Air strikes are continuing today, and Israeli ground forces are massing on the border with Gaza.
I'm sure that many people will think that an Israeli ground invasion is all but inevitable.
I also happen to think that Israel's next phase of strikes was banking on Hamas making just that supposition.
Israel's Saturday attacks went after overt Hamas targets in an effort to rattle their proverbial cages, hitting their most visible signs of power, Hamas security stations, armories, tunnels and training camps.
Hamas, trained and back by Iran just like Hezbollah was in 2006, was prepared and braced for a grinding ground war from fixed positions with concurrent and continuing rocket attacks on Israel, in hopes of winning the
traditional Arab "victory," of not being utterly wiped off the face of the earth.
Hamas hoped to stall any Israeli ground invasion by making it as costly as possible by forcing Israeli units into ambushes. Overnight, Hamas rushed their terrorist drones to fighting positions along likely Israeli invasion routes to man tank traps and ambush zones. I strongly suspect IAF planners were counting on just that development.
If I'm right, Israeli Air Force planes have been hitting Hamas fortifications filled with eager young terrorists who died waiting for an invasion that will never come. Hamas was suckered into putting their fighters in combat positions while the IAF simply waited for them to show up for their pre-planned bombing runs.
If Gazans weren't part of a genocide-mad death cult I might feel sorry for them, but then I remember that these same terrorists purposefully target Israeli civilians, and that even their kids dance in the streets when Israeli woman and children are killed by Hamas rockets, and I don't feel too bad, at all.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:58 AM
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1
War is cruelty; you cannot refine it. (General Sherman). The Gazans elected Hamas and cheered the deaths of innocent Israelis. They brought this on themselves.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 28, 2008 01:39 AM (HG6DM)
2
"The Gazans elected Hamas and cheered the deaths of innocent Israelis. They brought this on themselves."
A real life example of: You get the government you deserve.
Posted by: firefirefire at December 28, 2008 06:18 AM (V8jYh)
3
This never ending conflict will go on and on and on. There simply is NO peaceful solution. Never has been, never will be.
Posted by: Dude at December 28, 2008 08:49 AM (byA+E)
4
It would be nice to wish that the Israelites would bomb the idiots into the stone age, but then I think, "it wouldn't be far to force them to modernize like that."
Posted by: Larry Sheldon at December 28, 2008 09:34 AM (OmeRL)
5
Who was the guy that said "The only thing dumber than a muz is two of 'em"? Brilliant! Hopefully, Israel will bomb, kill as many as possible that way and THEN march in and slaughter anything in their path like Joshua and his 40,000 did. That's the only answer to Hamas that makes sense. Unfortunately, good sense ain't PC, so they won't.....damn!
Posted by: Tonto at December 28, 2008 11:33 AM (Qv1xF)
6
Hamas is getting exactly what they wanted and then some. They are expecting their brothers in neighboring countries to attack Israel, especially Iran. Let's see if they are that stupid.
Posted by: Marc Boyd at December 28, 2008 02:18 PM (Zoziv)
7
Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Today's lesson: War does indeed solve things and some people can only be dealt with by wiping them from the face of the Earth. In that category: Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban, Al Queda, many of the Palestinians, North Korea, etc.
Posted by: Mike at December 28, 2008 04:08 PM (twYhW)
8
The Israelis are "presenting Darwin Awards" to all Hamas members willing to come forward and claim them. Pass the word.
Posted by: sherlock at January 02, 2009 03:32 PM (8V5Ut)
9
It continues to prove the famous quote when Israeli General Moshe Dayan was asked after the 1967 war what the secret of his succes was, and he responded "Fight Arabs".
Posted by: Georg Felis at January 02, 2009 11:02 PM (i5bRG)
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December 25, 2008
Merry Christmas, All
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:39 AM
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1
God bless us, every one. Boy do we need it.
Posted by: Vaultenblogger at December 25, 2008 03:09 AM (HG6DM)
Posted by: steveegg at December 25, 2008 09:27 AM (LvEFt)
3
Merry Christmas to all..God Bless the USA
Posted by: Dan Howell at December 25, 2008 10:20 AM (kgVKO)
4
To all the people whose blogs I follow and read... I just want you to really know that your blogs are absolutely life-changing. The Bible says, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free". As you blog the truth and exercise free speech, you may think, "Oh, I'm just blogging. Other people out there are really making a difference in the world and changing lives." I have to tell you, quite honestly, reading the truth of your blogs has changed my life. It's changed my understanding, my perspective, and has really inspired change in me and in my life. I most truly and sincerely want to thank all of you... and I want you to know that your blogs are truly the power of truth that is lifechanging.
Thank you ever so much all of you. God bless you!! And I'd like to wish you a Merry Christmas and send you my love in Christ.
Love in Christ,
Merry Christmas,
Grace.
(aka Laura)
Posted by: l at December 25, 2008 01:10 PM (KquNY)
5
Merry Christmas CY, and a Happy New Year to you and yours.
Posted by: Dan Irving at December 26, 2008 09:19 AM (Kw4jM)
6
Thanks for calling it "Christmas", that's what it is. God bless all of you and a very Merry Christmas and PROSPEROUS New Year to you! God Bless America and God Damn the democrats!
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Posted by: Quuful at December 30, 2008 09:15 PM (rtwzC)
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December 24, 2008
David Spade's Arms Deal
The former Just Shoot Me star made a grand gesture to the Phoenix Police Department, giving them funds to equip their officers with AR-15 rifles to counter the firepower of increasingly violent Mexican drug cartels.
The thing is, Spade's donation doesn't seem to be going
as far as it should.
The Phoenix Police Department has gotten some high-powered goodies courtesy of actor David Spade.
The one-time Phoenix resident donated $100,000 so that the department can buy approximately 50 AR-15 rifles.
Spade said he wanted to make the donation after seeing a TV news report about Phoenix officers having to buy their own rifles. Spade grew up in the Phoenix area and graduated from Arizona State University.
Phoenix Police Sgt. Alan Hill says the rifles will be given to patrol officers and that the agency was grateful for the gifts.
But how is Spade's donation of $100,000 leading to just 50 rifles for PPD patrol officers?
Even with the tremendous increase in demand due to the election of Barack Obama, the Phoenix Police should be able to get AR-15 carbines for far less than $2,000 a copy that the story seems to indicate.
The
Bushmaster Patrolmans' Carbine, an M4-style AR-15 marketed to law enforcement, retails for less than $1,300, roughly the same as a similar version made by
Smith & Wesson. And these are
premium AR-style rifles at
retail prices—there is no reason on the earth that a bulk agency purchase can't buy these rifles for less than a thousand dollars (the automatic M-16 has a replacement to the military of
$586).
If Spade's donation is also helping purchase ammunition, magazines, cleaning kits, and/or officer training for these rifles as well, then he's not getting a bad value for his donated dollars. I would hope that his generous donation isn't being squandered on over-priced weapons, or the appearance of the same created by journalists guilty once again of not thoroughly covering a story.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Bang for the buck aside (pun intended), that's a pretty cool bit of charitable work by Spade.
Posted by: Mike Gray at December 24, 2008 10:46 PM (fBnZs)
2
Will La Raza and MEChA now condemn Spade and call for a boycott of any movie in which he appears?
Posted by: zhombre at December 25, 2008 12:03 PM (w8VN7)
3
Phoenix PD should be able to get surplus M-16s from the DoD via DRMO, and the cost would be pennies compared to $2k a pop like I have seen reported.
Posted by: Mark at December 26, 2008 08:01 AM (lcisk)
4
More than likely this donation is being fleeced, as is often the case with govt. purchases.
Posted by: Dude at December 26, 2008 09:01 AM (byA+E)
5
...or maybe the rifles are equipped with some kind of scope or rail system. $2k doesn't sound unreasonable for a Patrolman's carbine + ACOG, for example. Let's hold off until we get the details.... and even if the money isn't being spent wisely, it's certainly not David Spade's fault.
Posted by: rosignol at December 26, 2008 07:42 PM (XMy8S)
6
Wouldn't Mini-14's be cheaper?
Posted by: PA at December 27, 2008 01:57 AM (Z0HFQ)
7
Let's hold off until we get the details....
Rots o' Ruck. That course of action doesn't seem to be the Right-Wing Echo Machine's strong suit.
The reporter undoubtedly asked the PPD public relations officer, "So what'll you get for $100,000?" And the guy said, "Approximately 50 AR-15 rifles." And now it's the reporter's fault. Why? Because he's a reporter. Nice, CY. And this New Media approach is better than the old one how...?
Posted by: Mike's Dumbmerica at December 27, 2008 08:56 AM (CwxZw)
8
And this New Media approach is better than the old one how...?
17.
Hey, ask a stupid question... ;-)
Posted by: Templar at December 28, 2008 05:53 PM (wfAl5)
9
Like Rosignol says, if they're getting models with multiple-rail forends and lights, etc., and good optical sights, they price goes up. Fast. Add in ammo, maintenance kits, spare parts(if they're smart), that cuts down on how many.
Of course, if they're getting basic rifles, that's WAY too expensive.
Posted by: Firehand at December 29, 2008 09:53 AM (oHcWz)
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