A Few Notes On The Horrible, No Good, Omnibus Spending Bill <br>Rubio Skips Cloture And Final Vote

A Few Notes On The Horrible, No Good, Omnibus Spending Bill
Rubio Skips Cloture And Final Vote

A majority of the House GOP voted for it. They own it.

Via John Ekdahl, that immigration boost Ace was hammering yesterday? Yeah, the Democrats fought against it but the GOP insisted on it. Don't say they never fight for anything. Expect more from Ace on this later.

The ObamaCare "Cadilac Tax" is being postponed. Thankfully the GOP has spared the Democrats biggest allies, unions, from feeling the effects of ObamaCare.

Paul Ryan apparently promised Nancy Pelosi the House would vote on a bailout plan for Puerto Rico next month.

Democrats are crowing about how much they got out of this. Here's the former head of the Democrats House Campaign Committee.

Rep Israel on omnibus: We ended up with most of the good stuff in and most of the bad stuff out. And that's a victory.
— Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) December 18, 2015

Marco Rubio's partner in amnesty and the presumed next Senate Democrat leader, Chuck Schumer, sees good news from this process.

“I actually think things will improve,” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas). “Sen. Schumer is certainly capable of spinning himself up and being a tough partisan. But I think there’s also a practical side to him, too.”
Schumer declined to comment for this story, other than to take Reid’s side.
“Sen. McConnell wants to see the Senate work,” Schumer said. “But the good news for us is, to make it work, he has to do basically our agenda.”

Speaking of the Senate, McConnell expedited cloture for the omnibus in the Senate.

Ted Cruz voted no. Marco Rubio....

Senators not voting on cloture that was invoked 72-26: Boxer and Rubio.
— Senate Press Gallery (@SenatePress) December 18, 2015

I'm sure Rubio supporters will tell us this means nothing and that Ted Cruz really supports it.

Gee, I wonder why Trump is winning. It's a real puzzle.

UPDATE: Team Cruz on Rubio being MIA for both votes.

Posted by: DrewM. at 12:51 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Ace is (or was) pretty hacked off about it. Last night he was tweeting about voting for democrats just to send a message. I think we're beyond sending a message, though. We've been sending messages for years now and it hasn't accomplished anything.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 18, 2015 11:49 AM (4ErVI)

2 Huh

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 11:49 AM (JOG+K)

3 I'll probably vote Hitlery. Not to send a message, but to get these burning times over with.

I have chosen the form of the destroyer.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 11:51 AM (JOG+K)

4 This is all so depressing.....

Posted by: donna at December 18, 2015 11:51 AM (/dSsq)

5 Yeah, I just read something about that. Weeper 2.0, Radicalized Ryan has apparently promised his bestie Nancy Pelosi a Puerto Rico bailout in March.

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 18, 2015 11:52 AM (dvuhZ)

6 RBPundit will try to tell people Marco was against it before he voted for it. Or something.

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:52 AM (Agn5J)

7
It should have been called the Under-the-Bus spending bill.

Posted by: TheTruth at December 18, 2015 11:52 AM (Av8i6)

8
I saw Stomp open for Rent at the Cow Palace back in '03.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 18, 2015 11:53 AM (gwpf+)

9 What can be said, except Trump 2016?

There is nothing else you can do to voice your displeasure. No other GOP candidate is worth voting for.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 18, 2015 11:53 AM (AJ21Q)

10 Hey! Maybe the GOPe is just super duper smart and slipped a couple lines in the behemoth of a bill that says something along the lines of 'Everything is defunded. Build a wall. Lol dems you should read.'

Maybe?

No?

Well then down with the Uniparty.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at December 18, 2015 11:53 AM (WuRdh)

11 "F$#@ you," they explained to the angry citizens.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 18, 2015 11:53 AM (NOIQH)

12 Some jackass talking radio head said yesterday Ryan did the GOP candidates a favor, because Hillary can't hang a shutdown on them. Yeah, thanks for the favor, Dudley Douchebag.

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:54 AM (Agn5J)

13
Any conservative that thinks the Republican party is at all conservative or at least more conservative than the Dem party is frankly not a conservative.

The GOP Establishment has even stopped pretending, they no longer care about conservative votes.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 11:54 AM (ODxAs)

14 No KY on the cactus today.

Posted by: Roy at December 18, 2015 11:55 AM (VndSC)

15 12 Some jackass talking radio head said yesterday Ryan did the GOP candidates a favor, because Hillary can't hang a shutdown on them. Yeah, thanks for the favor, Dudley Douchebag.
Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:54 AM (Agn5J)

I hate this crap. Only 17% of the government shuts down.

Posted by: Begoniary Burns at December 18, 2015 11:55 AM (ztYE8)

16 Gee, I wonder why Trump is winning. It's a real puzzle-DrewM

Maybe ace, you and the other cobs can have a series of threads and podcasts about it.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 11:55 AM (voOPb)

17 Funded Planned Parenthood, kept Obamacare alive, increased the flood of immigrants... what's not to love?

Posted by: Paul Ryan at December 18, 2015 11:55 AM (Agn5J)

18 I hate this crap. Only 17% of the government shuts down.

I do, too. We have a shutdown every weekend and holiday.

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:56 AM (Agn5J)

19 One correction, Drew: House "Republicans" don't own this: WE do! The bill will have to come due, and the gubmint's hands will be be thrust deeply into our pockets.

The only possible good effect from this will be a rise in Teh Donald's poll numbers, and probably an increase in his margin of victory over Shrillery. I'd trade that happily to see all of these criminals thrown in jail for many, many years.

There must be 535 empty jail cells somewhere. The farther away, the better.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 11:56 AM (ykopX)

20 This is why Eddie Munster should never be in charge of anything

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 11:56 AM (zv81W)

21 Fuck these fucking fuckers and their fucking friends.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (kpqmD)

22 Paul Ryan apparently promised Nancy Pelosi the House would vote on a bailout plan for Puerto Rico next month.

Yeah, we'll get right on that, right after we vote on the bailout plan for Utah.

Why is it that minorities and Democrats are always broke, and always needing bailouts? Can they not handle their money at all? Have they no self-restraint whatsoever? "Yeah, we'd like to do that, but WE CAN'T AFFORD IT." Do those words ever pass their lips? Anyone? Bueller?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (oKE6c)

23 I understand the feckless GOPe giving in to things Dems want. But, I don't understand the reasoning to give them things they haven't asked for yet.

These f*ckers have taken appeasement to the ultimate state of sucking c*ck

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (voOPb)

24 Question for all of you:

Do you think it's possible that the GOPe (and possibly even their Democrat allies) see some invisible handwriting on the wall? That Trump is likely the next President? And therefore, they are going to ram through every last POS bill they can while the getting's good?

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (wtvvX)

25 20 This is why Eddie Munster should never be in charge of anything

But my arms are huge!

Posted by: Paul Ryan at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (Agn5J)

26 There must be 535 empty jail cells somewhere. The farther away, the better.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 11:56 AM (ykopX)

Fire them all into the sun. Put it on pay per view so we can reduce the debt with the proceeds.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 18, 2015 11:58 AM (4ErVI)

27 Speaking of the lying shithead Rubio, Levin dug up the old 2010 debates between him, Oompa Loompa, and Kendrick Meek, in which he goes on and on and on about how the pathway to citizenship is amnesty, isnt fair to legal immigrants, and would be horrible for the country. That little asshat has the audacity to accuse Cruz of lying when he effing lied to his constituents to get elected.

Rubio is on my will not vote for under any circumstances list.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at December 18, 2015 11:58 AM (KkVB6)

28 Sen. McConnell wants to see the Senate work, Schumer said. But the good news for us is, to make it work, he has to do basically our agenda.

Then the GOPe is no longer needed. Buh-bye.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (Yllyl)

29 WIth that beard, I think Eddie Munster recited the Shahadah 3 times and now has some Muzzie name. Let's see, what would be good Muzzie name for Ryan....

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (dvuhZ)

30
F YOU America!!!

*Waving giant foam hands with a middle finger*

Posted by: GOP Congress at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (ODxAs)

31 Do you think it's possible that the GOPe (and possibly even their Democrat allies) see some invisible handwriting on the wall?

No. Has this Congress done anything to show people they know - or care - what they're doing?

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (Agn5J)

32 Hmmm, for someone concerned about immigration, it appears the Dems are the 'hold your nose and vote' option.

In any event, this hobbit is voting against the incumbent GOPe Senator and against the incumbent GOPe Rep.

And for Trump.

Posted by: Some Dope at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (3eSsA)

33 >>There must be 535 empty jail cells somewhere. The farther away, the better.

I hear there are some vacancies at Gitmo.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (oKE6c)

34 Rat-fuckers, the lot of them....

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (LA7Cm)

35 [l]Let's see, what would be good Muzzie name for Ryan....

Mahatma Coat?

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (Agn5J)

36 I'm giddily awaiting the rationalizing from the GOPologists. They're getting harder and harder to find.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (Wckf4)

37
O/T and carried over from the last thread because of willowing:

149 ... Thanks for the photo of 1908 fashion. those dresses really emphasize the feminine figure.

Question. I enjoyed Director's Cut. Any idea about when the sequel might come out?

Posted by: JTB at December 18, 2015 11:54 AM (FvdPb)

Glad you liked the picture. Women were so much more lushly feminine back then. Well, except for the suffragettes, but that's another story.

I'm glad you liked The Director's Cut. May I ask you to leave a review at Amazon if you haven't yet? And as for the sequel. . .I'm sorry, but I've had a huge writing block for the last year or two. I wish I could tell you when the new book will be out, but I can't.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (X6fMO)

38 Ace already announced that he was a Democrat and DrewM announced that he was a Libertarian. Why would anyone expect either of them ever to say anything supportive of Republicans? That's not to mean the two of them aren't right on occasion, but they pick what they want to comment on and they only comment critically. If this is the only information you're getting, you wouldn't know that there is a real world out there.

Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate? You wouldn't know it here. Why no comment from the eminent sages on that gross violation of every principle of just war known to civilization? Hell, if you can target them for death because of who their relatives are, then why not round them up, hold them as hostages, and kill one for everyone killed by a terrorist? Now there's a topic for you, Ewok in Chief and cobs.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

39 17 Funded Planned Parenthood, kept Obamacare alive, increased the flood of immigrants... what's not to love?

Posted by: Paul Ryan at December 18, 2015 11:55 AM (Agn5J)

New Cruz campaign slogan: "GOP: What's the Point?"

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (laMCB)

40 Burn, turn on any Salem Radio station. Hewitt, Medved, Bennett...

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (Agn5J)

41 Rubio is going to get pounded harder than a tight assed prison virgin introduced into the general prison population for the first time...and deserving of every angry thrust.

Posted by: H Badger at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (n/0Nw)

42 Why is it that minorities and Democrats are always broke, and always needing bailouts? Can they not handle their money at all? Have they no self-restraint whatsoever? "Yeah, we'd like to do that, but WE CAN'T AFFORD IT." Do those words ever pass their lips? Anyone? Bueller?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (oKE6c)

Of course not. We reward their shitty behavior so why should they worry about personal finances and responsibility.

We're the idiots who do.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (fWAjv)

43 Does Mr. Ryan's megabus bill mean I will get free college? And Panera, too?

Posted by: U of Missou Snowflake at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (Dwehj)

44 This might be impolite ... but ... our forefathers would have been shooting by now

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (zv81W)

45 >>That Trump is likely the next President? And therefore, they are going to ram through every last POS bill they can while the getting's good?

Oh, that is very plausible.
This is definitely an FU move, and I think it's at the fact that Trump is winning --- it's a punishment for our current "temper tantrum".

Posted by: Lizzy at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (NOIQH)

46
Not aimed at Drew, but because the bills are on skids and will sail thru the Senate with zero possibility of not passing, the totes conservative bloggers and tv talking heads can go back to tut-tuting about isn't it terrible what the GOP did once again, but if we elect even more Republicans in next November it will Jubilation Day.

Plus, "buy my book, join our wine club and steak knives 30% off at Amazon."

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (kdS6q)

47 We gave the Democrats everything they wanted and they promised not to be mean to us until after the new year!

Posted by: Paul Ryan at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (Agn5J)

48 Just go ahead and make Puerto Rico a state and register all the voters as Democrat and get it over with.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (FkBIv)

49 48 Just go ahead and make Puerto Rico a state and register all the voters as Democrat and get it over with.

Screw that, I'm too old to make another flag!

Posted by: Betsy Ross at December 18, 2015 12:03 PM (Agn5J)

50 Guys, guys, guys

The GOP only controls 100% of both houses of congress. They have no real power. Stop being so mean to them.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at December 18, 2015 12:03 PM (0LHZx)

51 ***"Burn, turn on any Salem Radio station. Hewitt, Medved, Bennett..."***

No, I meant here in the comments. I can't stand listening to talk radio, even the ones I usually agree with.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:04 PM (Wckf4)

52 Stoking Trump's boiler. They are some of the dumbest f****** creatures on this planet.

Posted by: dogfish at December 18, 2015 12:04 PM (0O2Lr)

53 It's like 20 years or so ago the Democrats decided the only way they could win is to infiltrate the Republican party and what we are seeing today is the culmination of that plan.

It's all 1 party.

The Democratic party.

Posted by: Scott at December 18, 2015 12:04 PM (Bo7uZ)

54 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

I think the topic here is domestic politics. If you want to bitch about Ace's position on foreign policy, or Trump's advocacy of war crimes, I'm sure there'll be another thread coming right along soon.

The point here is that the Congressional GOP is meeting all expectations of being the traitorous, venal scum that we suspected they were.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (laMCB)

55 Burn, I think everyone here is officially through apologizing for the GOPe. At least I hope so.

Posted by: Betsy Ross at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (gA69l)

56 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

You could try responding to the points actually made here instead of the ones you want them to make. If not, you could try your own blog.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (Wckf4)

57 Ok, maybe we'll need to let ISIS behead the 1st round or three of ArtV conventions but they're a small sacrifice to make.

Posted by: DaveA at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (DL2i+)

58 38 Ace already announced that he was a Democrat and DrewM announced that he was a Libertarian. Why would anyone expect either of them ever to say anything supportive of Republicans? That's not to mean the two of them aren't right on occasion, but they pick what they want to comment on and they only comment critically. If this is the only information you're getting, you wouldn't know that there is a real world out there.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

____

Oh please great wise one, tell us how in the "real world" this bill is wonderful.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (0LHZx)

59 Off, damned sock!

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (gA69l)

60 Just go ahead and make Puerto Rico a state and register all the voters as Democrat and get it over with.

Screw that, I'm too old to make another flag!
Posted by: Betsy Ross

Just use Captain America's uniform!

Posted by: rickb223 at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (Yllyl)

61 Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate?
It worked for the Soviets and the then-nascent PLO. And the last time I checked, ISIS wasn't a signatory state to the Geneva Conventions, a uniformed army etc.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (DLIIY)

62 Wait, Ace is a Democrat? I did not know that.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (9U1OG)

63 cactus, all these assholes, some assembly yet. fucking ruling class.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (ucDmr)

64 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (kdS6q)

But...but...but...

Nominations!

...or something.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (Wckf4)

65 I thought Ace said he was no longer a Republican.

Posted by: Wyatt at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (gA69l)

66 Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate? You wouldn't know it here.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

I for one have personally endorsed the Kaiser Soze approach.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (JOG+K)

67 Whatever happened to the Paul Ryan who dissed Obama in the run-up to the adoption of Obamacare by calling him out in that kabuki Town Hall Obama insisted upon.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (r1fLd)

68 I hate pretty much every policy prescription Trump lays out and I object viscerally to his embracing enemies of the United States, like Putin, but I still think he's objectively less dangerous for the country than Mitch McConnell and his merry band of GOPe Senate scumbags.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (TxJGV)

69 All we need is the House. That's all we need. And the Senate. The House and the Senate is all we need. We need the House, the Senate, and the Presidency, that's all we need. A supermajority of the House, the Senate and the Presidency, that's all we need. A supermajority of both the House and the Senate, and the Presidency, that's all we need.

Posted by: GOPe jerks at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (kpqmD)

70 48 Just go ahead and make Puerto Rico a state and register all the voters as Democrat and get it over with.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (FkBIv)

And I've got the state motto: "The Welfare State."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (oKE6c)

71 that gross violation of every principle of just war known to civilization

I can answer that and I am not for Trump. Because isis is not a partner in any form of just war. They behead children, burn people in cages, have rape houses for their terror teammates. But if prefer the old British stand in a line taking turns with musket shots version of war with these guys...you first.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (ODxAs)

72 That tells you just how useless the GOPe is, when Schumer can rub your nose in it like that.

Posted by: Chupacabra at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (kZVsz)

73 54
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:00 PM (5f5bM)

I think the topic here is domestic politics. If you want to bitch
about Ace's position on foreign policy, or Trump's advocacy of war
crimes, I'm sure there'll be another thread coming right along soon.

The point here is that the Congressional GOP is meeting all
expectations of being the traitorous, venal scum that we suspected they
were.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at December 18, 2015 12:05 PM (laMCB)

***********************
No, the point is that he who chooses the topics controls the discussion. If you are satisfied with being fed red meat once a day by DrewM with no solution that works in the real world, it's your loss. Ace (and presumably the cobs through some sort of editorial decision process) chooses not to comment on the leading Republican Presidential contender advocating the commission of war crimes. Like I said, choose the topic, control the discussion.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (5f5bM)

74
Plus, "buy my book, join our wine club and steak knives 30% off at Amazon."

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:02 PM (kdS6q)

Well, if I can 30% off its worth it then

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (voOPb)

75 This should end Rubio's campaign. Its obvious he would have voted with the Establishment Party (E) to shaft the base again.

I know one thing - whatever violence illegal immigrants and jihadists visit on my family will be returned in kind to my Congressman's family.

Posted by: Fen at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (LzTHP)

76 23 I understand the feckless GOPe giving in to things Dems want. But, I don't understand the reasoning to give them things they haven't asked for yet.

These f*ckers have taken appeasement to the ultimate state of sucking c*ck
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 11:57 AM (voOPb)

They are, I think, creating what is called in business a poison pill.

The Fed can't really raise interest rates too much on the ever increasing debt especially, as I last understood it, Obama has been making it shorter term.

Low interest rates keep financing what Stockman calls the casino and Wall St and the 1% are happy indeed.

It is a Win Win for the Uniparty. Money flows to buy votes (and indirectly to the donor class) , and interest rates are forced to remain low to reward the donor class.

The Middle Class and the Poor suffer thanks to easy money.

They don't care what they spend it on. As long as they spend.

Posted by: (not J.J.) Sefton at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (wi0rD)

77 The hotline is now open. Sigh.

Posted by: The AoSHQ Concern Desk at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (Dwehj)

78
Caesar, I'm kinda shocked. You think the utterly unserious red meat throwaway about killing terror family members is important, but the jaw-dropping performance by the GOP on actual, important, current issues is not?

Maybe you don't understand what we used to have in terms of constitutional balance and the way a major party could influence policy and help its own electoral position. Many here don't - it's all just tribal allegiance, personality, various kinds of stupid signalling.

To any experienced observer of it all, the conclusion is hard to avoid that the dam has finally burst. The GOP, in "control" of both houses and nominally opposed to historically disastrous and unconstitutional policies, is merely touching up around the edges of some of the worst policies to please their own narrow donor class AND (amazingly) their opponents' core supporters.

Anyone who has more than aniota of understanding how things did, can, and must work in DC is speechless.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (QDnY+)

79 Usually, when you get sold down the river at least you'd get a nice boat ride . . . .

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (fQ/0p)

80 GOPe negotatiating a car price

Dealer: The MSRP is $20,000

GOPe: Hmmm, will you take $21,000?

Dealer: Sir that's $1000 above asking price

GOPe: Yes, of course, silly me. How about $22,000? Do we have a deal?

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (0LHZx)

81 Oh, that is very plausible.

This is definitely an FU move, and I think it's at the fact that
Trump is winning --- it's a punishment for our current "temper tantrum".

Posted by: Lizzy at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM

You gotta steal while the stealing is good. This would be a good time for Trump to bring up the dreaded term "clawback". Maybe a Department of Clawback.

Posted by: Lester at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (2UPXV)

82 Funds through next September, so expect another cave in then, to get past the election.

dumb.

Posted by: Harun at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (UBBWX)

83 Although some of the countries you visited in the film, like Italy, aren't doing so well. Italy's economy is in shambles.

Yeah, but we're in the midst of... 320 mass shootings in the United States this year alone?

o.O Ummm. Ok then.

*interview of Michael Moore

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (fWAjv)

84 Because of the Senate filibuster -- and Harry Reid's willingness to abuse it -- nothing meaningful can get passed by this Congress except when it's rolled into a big omnibus. But McConnell/Ryan won't put anything in the omnibus that will invite an Obama veto that would Shut Down the Government because that would mean that the Congressional Republicans were Terrorists Who Have Taken America Hostage.

So in this Omnibus the Republicans have put in a few little things that they hope Obama will let slip by, because they've given him so many things he'll like.

So Harry Reid, backed by Obama's veto, has more influence in Congress than McConnell or Ryan.

Am I missing something?

But when Harry Reid controlled the Senate he could pull any and all legislative tricks to get things like Obamacare pushed through, or to remove the filibuster to get the DC Court judge packed.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (r1fLd)

85 I for one have personally endorsed the Kaiser Soze approach.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl

It's not who we are.

Posted by: Establishmentarians at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (FkBIv)

86 "RBPundit will try to tell people Marco was against it before he voted for it. Or something."

It was the most conservative outcome possible. And people that don't support Rubio are dumb.

Posted by: RBPundit at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (aFBd5)

87 44 This might be impolite ... but ... our forefathers would have been shooting by now
Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (zv81W)

I said this at dinner the other night. The wife was aghast. The kids (high school+) sat quite for a minute as the wife ranted. Then said as if rehearsed. Daddy's right.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (JOG+K)

88 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (5f5bM)

Could you point out where people have said that they are satisfied with only the editorial opinions here?

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (Wckf4)

89 They ought to be designated as laws not preventative but fearful of crimes, produced by the tumultuous impression of a few isolated facts, and not by thoughtful consideration of the inconveniences and advantages of a universal decree.

Posted by: Cesare Beccaria at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (wjpWH)

90 Ace might say voting for a Democrat is better than voting for another LaHood criminal, like in the Flynn election dealio, but I couldn't do it. I just cannot vote for a socialist tyrant, even in protest against total corruption.

Tyranny versus Corruption, Democrat versus Republican, is what we are fucking reduced to in this country.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (TxJGV)

91 Like I said, choose the topic, control the discussion.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon

Your Hot Air button broke?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (9YDUz)

92 62 "Wait, Ace is a Democrat? I did not know that."

No, he's an easily embarrassed conservative. He doesn't want to be associated with any conservative who isn't socially acceptable in the Greater New York area.

Posted by: jwest at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Zs4uk)

93 61
Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target
family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate?

It worked for the Soviets and the then-nascent PLO. And the last
time I checked, ISIS wasn't a signatory state to the Geneva Conventions,
a uniformed army etc.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:06 PM (DLIIY)

No, but we are, and deliberate targeting of noncombatants as an act of war is certainly a war crime (we hung Nazis for it), and if we're not at war, then it's plain old murder, and the Air Force and Navy pilots who do it should be court-martialed. Following orders is not an excuse.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (5f5bM)

94 You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em...

Posted by: RuPaul Ryan at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Dwehj)

95 87 44 This might be impolite ... but ... our forefathers would have been shooting by now
Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (zv81W)

I said this at dinner the other night. The wife was aghast. The kids (high school+) sat quite for a minute as the wife ranted. Then said as if rehearsed. Daddy's right.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM (JOG+K)

The Founders would be appalled at what this nation has become.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (kpqmD)

96 everyone in our current government hates us. they want to enslave us. they are just about there. Trump is the guy just for entertainment value. This shit aint worth saving, so like a broke gambler, let it ride.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (ucDmr)

97 85 I for one have personally endorsed the Kaiser Soze approach.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl

It's not who we are.
Posted by: Establishmentarians at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (FkBIv)

And that, my friend, is the problem.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (JOG+K)

98 Rush lashing out at this...

Posted by: RM at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (U3LtS)

99 Um, Caesar, the R's have majorities on both sides of Congress. That means, generally, that they get to set the priorities in things like budgets, not cave to the Dems. They did the latter. You want us to get lathered up over bombing terrorists and their families?

Posted by: ejo at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (il4FI)

100 44 This might be impolite ... but ... our forefathers would have been shooting by now

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:01 PM (zv81W)

I've often entertained the concept of a symbolic tar and feathering. Some nondestructive act to inconvenience the offender. Maybe molasses and feathers on a car windshield.*

* This is a thought exercise. I am in no way advocating such activity.

Posted by: db at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (sU48l)

101 Fuck off.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (DLIIY)

102 97 85 I for one have personally endorsed the Kaiser Soze approach.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl

It's not who we are.
Posted by: Establishmentarians

When was that vote? Because I missed it.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 18, 2015 12:13 PM (Yllyl)

103 99 Um, Caesar, the R's have majorities on both sides of Congress. That means, generally, that they get to set the priorities in things like budgets, not cave to the Dems. They did the latter. You want us to get lathered up over bombing terrorists and their families?
Posted by: ejo at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (il4FI)

____

His concern is duly noted.

Posted by: Monsieur Mew Mew at December 18, 2015 12:13 PM (0LHZx)

104
48Just go ahead and make Puerto Rico a state and register all the voters as Democrat and get it over with.

Congress is just living by Shrillary Killary's official slogan.

"What difference, at this point, does it make?"

Posted by: Hikaru at December 18, 2015 12:13 PM (WDCYi)

105
No, but we are, and deliberate targeting of noncombatants as an act of war is certainly a war crime (we hung Nazis for it), and if we're not at war, then it's plain old murder, and the Air Force and Navy pilots who do it should be court-martialed. Following orders is not an excuse.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (5f5bM)

So the pilot of the Enola Gay should have been tried for war crimes? The pilots who flew the firebombing raids over Dresden?

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (kpqmD)

106 Caesar, do you think the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes worthy of hanging? If not, why not?

Posted by: ejo at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (il4FI)

107
The amazing part is a fully in control Dem congress would not have dreamed to come up with all of the shit in this bill. They would have said "we'll never get that through, all the new muzzie immigration after San B, etc..."

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (ODxAs)

108 I'm reminded of Manchester's remarks about Chamberlain negotiating with the Devil over his soul, going down his list and crossing off each diplomatic concession... when he realizes he's just traded his soul for the promise of future negotiations.

It's over people. Even if the Tea Party were to sweep the next few elections, Ryan et al would simply switch to Democrat.

Rome is burning. And now I think Nero was on the fiddle to celebrate the end of all that corruption. Its going to all crash and these jackasses will suffer the consequences.

So there's that, at least.

Posted by: Fen at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (LzTHP)

109 Posted by: (not J.J.) Sefton at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (wi0rD)

Thanks for your insight @76 it does make sense.

I wish the GOPe & Ryan would quit with the act that they care.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (voOPb)

110 I've often entertained the concept of a symbolic tar and feathering. Some nondestructive act to inconvenience the offender. Maybe molasses and feathers on a car windshield.*

* This is a thought exercise. I am in no way advocating such activity.
Posted by: db at December 18, 2015 12:12 PM (sU48l)

Used motor oil would be much more difficult to clean off. Just saying.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (kpqmD)

111 There's a range near where we're spending Christmas week, and limited space in the car (thanks to M-I-L in the backseat) so I have to make a difficult caliber choice - 7.62mm or 5.56MM? The 30cal is a beautiful M1A which is a joy to shoot, so I'm leaning that direction.

Posted by: Weasel at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (6xtq3)

112 Note.... the Bill we are screaming about... is the work that Congress was supposed to have done... LAST YEAR...

and we are 2.5 months into the new Fiscal Year.

Washington is broken...

A Plague on Both Your Houses.... Fire them all.

Posted by: BB Wolf at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (f7rv6)

113 The (R) party has a great bench of truly conservative State leaders at all levels.

But something in D.C. utterly corrupts most of them upon contact, with a mere few, such as Cruz and Sessions, who seem not to succumb.

It's gonna take some unimaginable National trauma to break the death-lock that D.C. has on America. But broken, it must be.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (McRlu)

114 Good thing ace isn't up yet or else CNotR might get a nice slapdown for demanding different blog content.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 18, 2015 12:16 PM (Wckf4)

115 Mr. Rubicon, please pick up the off-white courtesy phone.

Posted by: The AoSHQ Concern Desk at December 18, 2015 12:16 PM (Dwehj)

116
So on the drive back from the range yesterday I caught a few minutes of Hewitt. Wow. A friend of the blog, who shall remain nameless (and who I'd never heard of prior to a kerfuffle here about him), was the guest.

Geezuz what an idiot. Of the new, distinctive, Beltway variety. The combination of arrogance, dripping condescension, and utter cluelessness was something one saw in small quantities back in the 90s (Clinton era). But now it has gone on from just the Dem side (where vapid, clueless non-entities run the country and lecture it endlessly) to the GOP side.

This cretin said the "granularity" of Rubio's comments in the lastest event would put him above Cruz and Trump in terms of people's impression.

Wow.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:16 PM (QDnY+)

117 Crowing about how we can now export oil isn't all that great in my book. My dad made an interesting point. You now how hard it is to build "new" refineries now. Well, it just became really easy...in other countries. The only thing holding refining in this country was the fact that we couldn't export oil only finished product.

Posted by: no good deed at December 18, 2015 12:16 PM (GgxVX)

118 107 The amazing part is a fully in control Dem congress would not have dreamed to come up with all of the shit in this bill
-----------------------------------------------------

We have a super-majority Democrat Congress.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (TxJGV)

119 111 There's a range near where we're spending Christmas week, and limited space in the car (thanks to M-I-L in the backseat) so I have to make a difficult caliber choice - 7.62mm or 5.56MM? The 30cal is a beautiful M1A which is a joy to shoot, so I'm leaning that direction.
Posted by: Weasel at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (6xtq3)

That is a tough choice. I guess it depends on how much time you have. You can shoot 5.56 over longer periods of time without beating your shoulder to hell, but 7.62x51 through the M1A is a wonderful thing

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (kpqmD)

120 111 There's a range near where we're spending Christmas week, and limited space in the car (thanks to M-I-L in the backseat) so I have to make a difficult caliber choice - 7.62mm or 5.56MM? The 30cal is a beautiful M1A which is a joy to shoot, so I'm leaning that direction.

Posted by: Weasel at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (6xtq3)

I always preferred the Stopping Power of the 7.62 when trying to hit Reindeer...

and the 5.56 won't punch threw the wood on Santa's sleigh...

Posted by: BB Wolf at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (f7rv6)

121 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon

Bitching at Ace and the cobs. A strategy almost as winning as the GOPe.

Posted by: dogfish at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (0O2Lr)

122 No, but we are, and deliberate targeting of noncombatants as an act of
war is certainly a war crime (we hung Nazis for it), and if we're not at
war, then it's plain old murder, and the Air Force and Navy pilots who
do it should be court-martialed. Following orders is not an excuse.
===========
Dreden
Tokyo
Nagasaki
Hiroshima

You are a dumbass of the highest order of dumbasses. Please collect your prize and go away. Take your "concern" with you.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (fQ/0p)

123 "But when Harry Reid controlled the Senate he could pull any and all legislative tricks to get things like Obamacare pushed through, or to remove the filibuster to get the DC Court judge packed."

Yup, just like how the GOP resorted to "extraordinary measures" to get Trump to sign a party loyalty oath. They could defend us if they really wanted to, its time to face the awkward reality that its not all a misunderstanding - the GOP is our enemy too.

Posted by: Fen at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (LzTHP)

124 JeffB?

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (DLIIY)

125 I'm still trying to figure out why this Caesar guy is pissed that Trump is gonna kill some terrorists and their families. Where do I sign up? It's us or them in the end.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (9U1OG)

126 You want us to get lathered up over bombing terrorists and their families?
Posted by: ejo

You really don't want me getting involved. I will follow the Geneva Conventions to the letter. Since terrorists ARE NOT signatories.........

Posted by: rickb223 at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (Yllyl)

127 Bitching at Ace and the cobs. A strategy almost as winning as the GOPe.
Especially when OT.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (DLIIY)

128 JeffB?

Posted by: andycanuck

RickWilson?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (9YDUz)

129 >>Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate?

No, didn't watch the debate.
Isn't this also similar to what Israel has done when they bulldoze the family home of a Palestinian terrorist?

Also, ISIS is *already* doing this in their numerous threats against the families of US servicemen, including posting their names, rank, and home addresses online.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (NOIQH)

130 You gotta steal while the stealing is good. This
would be a good time for Trump to bring up the dreaded term "clawback".
Maybe a Department of Clawback.

Posted by: Lester at December 18, 2015 12:09 PM (2UPXV)

I've advocated here before that the nominee, whoever it is, should convene a task force on the night of the nomination and start going through all the Executive Orders, Presidential Decision Memoranda, and similar documents to decide which to keep, with the default position being that anything published since January 20, 2009 is going to be rescinded by Executive Order on January 20, 2017. Step 2 is to start working on all the department and agency letters, memos, policy papers, etc., with a view on the new Cabinet members and agency heads to do the same as their first act upon being sworn in. Step 3 is to start working on the regulations that will need notice and comment periods before being rescinded. Some litigation will follow from that, and probably only 50-60% get repealed in the end and it will take a few years in the courts, but the departments and agencies can suspend them while they are under review. Those are things the administration can do on its own. Simultaneously, Congress needs to be cutting budgets for administrative agencies drastically and reviewing which laws can be repealed.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (5f5bM)

131
GOPe negotatiating a car price

Futurama - Amy Buys a Car - Eagles

https://vimeo.com/88306046

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (kdS6q)

132 Posted by: no good deed at December 18, 2015 12:16 PM (GgxVX)

Uh.... don't they know there is a HUGE glut in the oil market?

So.... why now???

Posted by: BB Wolf at December 18, 2015 12:19 PM (f7rv6)

133 128 JeffB?

Posted by: andycanuck

RickWilson?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 18, 2015 12:18 PM (9YDUz)

That was my guess. The "Trump should get a bullet in the head" guy.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:19 PM (kpqmD)

134 Saw a story this morning -- on Morning Joe MSNBC! -- that illegal immigration from Central America through Mexico is double the pace of a year ago. Once over the US border, the Illegals just sit and wait for a DHS taxi pick-up.

The numbers here dwarf Syrian refugee immigration.

The coyote fees for this are $5,000 to $12,000, which in volume is serious money. This couldn't be going on without the complicity of the cartels, and the Mexican and US governments.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 12:19 PM (r1fLd)

135 Were Nazis hanged for bombing London? News to me.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:19 PM (FkBIv)

136 This isn't even counting that they threw in CISA they've been trying to pass for a while. I have no idea why they think we'll keep voting for them.

Posted by: adampm at December 18, 2015 12:20 PM (7ABbz)

137 125
I'm still trying to figure out why this Caesar guy is pissed that Trump
is gonna kill some terrorists and their families. Where do I sign up?
It's us or them in the end.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (9U1OG)

Families are fair game when with the terrorists. Collateral damage. Targeting the families as a tactic is a war crime.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:21 PM (5f5bM)

138 BradDaystreet?
MikeMurphy?
EbolaMcBlackDeath?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 18, 2015 12:21 PM (9YDUz)

139 You can carry a hell of a lot more 5.56 than 7.62.

Depends on the distance you're shooting, I guess.

Posted by: Chupacabra at December 18, 2015 12:21 PM (kZVsz)

140 One small step for fighting back: here is a website of employers that use foreign workers with H1B and other visas http://www.myvisajobs.com/H2/H2BVisaSearch.aspx?Y=2015. Consider it a partial list of businesses not to do business with. Bonus points if you get to yank your business and tell them exactly why.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 12:21 PM (OrI3J)

141 Shouldn't Wm. Tecumseh Sherman have been hanged for war crimes?

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:21 PM (kpqmD)

142 Were Nazis hanged for bombing London? News to me.

Was it over when they bombed Pearl Harbor?

Posted by: Blutarski, South of the Monongahela at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (Dwehj)

143 How do these people with nothing but a shirt on their back come up with coyote fees?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (FkBIv)

144 Used motor oil would be much more difficult to clean off. Just saying.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:15 PM (kpqmD)

I thought of that, but it is supposed to be a symbolic tar and feathering. Feathers wouldn't stick to oil very well. A spray can of vehicle undercoating on the other hand...

Posted by: db at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (sU48l)

145 135
Were Nazis hanged for bombing London? News to me.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:19 PM (FkBIv)

Goering committed suicide by poison the night before his hanging.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (5f5bM)

146 Forget about foreign policy for a moment, and think about the GOPe abandonment of the base on ZeroCare yesterday.

America is two-thirds against this system, but health insurance companies are 100% in favor (pretty sweet getting the Congress to pass a law requiring every citizen to be your customer), and they kickback money to the GOP.

They won, we lost.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (TxJGV)

147 new one

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (9YDUz)

148 139 This is just plinking. For serious long range work my preferred caliber is 6.5mm.

Posted by: Weasel at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (6xtq3)

149 I'm sure a self-appointed judge in Spain will get right on that.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:22 PM (DLIIY)

150
Bitching at Ace and the cobs. A strategy almost as winning as the GOPe.

Posted by: dogfish at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (0O2Lr)

They really should put up a post about the horrible no good omnibus spending bill.

Just a thought.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:23 PM (fWAjv)

151
That's true MTF, they are 95% on the same team. Ryan switched without the paperwork, sometime ago.

Also, I think that ceaser dude must be a family member of isis, he is quite worried about it.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 12:23 PM (ODxAs)

152
Caesar, jeebus. An utterly unserious remark by a trash-talking political candidate known for his bombast and loose rhetoric is ..... a big deal?

A clear, undeniable, confirmation that the US is really hardly any longer a representative republic worthy of the name, notwithstanding both the substance AND politics of the most important policies, is some sort of distraction? A country now run by fucking CRs - for 7 FYs - is not the crisis at hand? Huh?

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:23 PM (QDnY+)

153 Shouldn't Wm. Tecumseh Sherman have been hanged for war crimes?
Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016

The winner is on the other end of the rope.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 12:23 PM (FkBIv)

154 113 The (R) party has a great bench of truly conservative State leaders at all levels.

But something in D.C. utterly corrupts most of them upon contact, with a mere few, such as Cruz and Sessions, who seem not to succumb.

It's gonna take some unimaginable National trauma to break the death-lock that D.C. has on America. But broken, it must be.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim at December 18, 2015 12:15

It doesn't matter.
WI elected the most conservative state senator to replace a retiring RINO 6th district. Fellows name is Glen Grothman. He voted for Boehner as Speaker, he's now voted for this Omnibus while campaigning against these various things. Once they get to DC its all about $$$$ for their wallets and $$$ for re-elections. Fuck the common and average man.

RIght now we could elect Ronald Reagan and the GOPe in Washington wouldn't work with him

I've voted R in every election since 1980. NO MORE. I might as well vote D at least they want to give me more than the R. Why settle for cool whip when you can have whip cream

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian, he's just a crazy Italian who drove a red sports car at December 18, 2015 12:24 PM (voOPb)

155 The Founders would be appalled at what this nation has become.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 12:11 PM (kpqmD)

Note... the Tea Tax the Boston Tea Party was 'protesting'?

It was about 3%....

They were REALLY protesting the Crony Capitalistic deal between the British Trading companies and the Government... where they were given preferential treatment under law...

Kinda like... the Health Insurance Companies who will now not have to pay TAX next year...

Posted by: BB Wolf at December 18, 2015 12:24 PM (f7rv6)

156 You are a dumbass of the highest order of dumbasses. Please collect your prize and go away. Take your "concern" with you.

Posted by: RoyalOil at December 18, 2015 12:17 PM (fQ/0p)

Excuse me, does this qualify under the "No Personal Insults" rule?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:24 PM (5f5bM)

157 "Usually, when you get sold down the river at least you'd get a nice boat ride . . . ."

In The Tudors tv series, Anne Boelyn had a premonition in which she visualized herself being locked in a coffin like cage on a barge, and being burned alive while the barge floated down the river.

Is that the kind of boat ride you were thinking of?

Posted by: RM at December 18, 2015 12:24 PM (U3LtS)

158 Senate just passed, 65 - 33.

Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at December 18, 2015 12:24 PM (dQJCS)

159
Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate? You wouldn't know it here. Why no comment from the eminent sages on that gross violation of every principle of just war known to civilization? Hell, if you can target them for death because of who their relatives are, then why not round them up, hold them as hostages, and kill one for everyone killed by a terrorist? Now there's a topic for you, Ewok in Chief and cobs.

Sounds fine with me. Frankly, I endorse the Israeli plan for dealing with home-grown terrorists: after you're arrested (or, preferably, killed), your house is bulldozed to rubble. As is your parents' home, your relatives' homes and your childrens' homes. And your mosque would be burned to the ground.

"Just war" has no application to followers of a death cult.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 18, 2015 12:25 PM (X6fMO)

160 Cruz spokesperson

FOUND! - Missed the spending bill vote today b/c he had 1 event in a row in Iowa - a record-setting breakneck pace for Marco.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:26 PM (fWAjv)

161 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Göring#Trial_and_death

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:27 PM (DLIIY)

162 War has always been fought, until recently, by making it SO painful to continue that you unconditionally surrender. Only in the last 70 years or so we have adopted the minimum damage strategy. How is that working out for us? We haven't won a war since WWII and we will not either using this strategy.

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:27 PM (zv81W)

163 Fuck it.
http://tinyurl.com/z25mg7v

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (DLIIY)

164
Senate just passed, 65 - 33.
Posted by: Gouverneur Morris

You are just going to love our campaign commercials next year, about how brave we are for voting no -- once it was a lock to pass anyway.

Posted by: The GOP Senators Who Got to Vote No This Time

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (kdS6q)

165 Well then Caesar, we better make sure their families are with them when we kill them.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (9U1OG)

166 152

Caesar, jeebus. An utterly unserious remark by a trash-talking
political candidate known for his bombast and loose rhetoric is ..... a
big deal?

A clear, undeniable, confirmation that the US is really
hardly any longer a representative republic worthy of the name,
notwithstanding both the substance AND politics of the most important
policies, is some sort of distraction? A country now run by fucking CRs -
for 7 FYs - is not the crisis at hand? Huh?

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:23 PM (QDnY+)

My point, rhomboid, is that it may look utterly unserious to you and me, but he doubled down on it in the debate, and as the proprieters of this here smart military blog with knowledgeable commenters have chosen not to post on that, but instead have given the Horde another predictable DrewM harangue with no solution other than the pyrrhic one, then what conclusion are we to draw from that editorial decision?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (5f5bM)

167 Did anyone hear Donald Trump advocating, multiple times, to target
family members of ISIS, and then doubling down on it in the debate? You
wouldn't know it here. Why no comment from the eminent sages on that
gross violation of every principle of just war known to civilization?
Hell, if you can target them for death because of who their relatives
are, then why not round them up, hold them as hostages, and kill one for
everyone killed by a terrorist? Now there's a topic for you, Ewok in
Chief and cobs.

I am fine with carpet bombing our enemies lands and with the Israeli's policy of razing the houses of terrorists' families. The people harmed in both cases are not innocents but are complicit in the war/terrorist acts that were perpetrated.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 12:29 PM (OrI3J)

168 Has the senate voted on this thing yet? I thought it was just the House. Cruz and Rubio are Senators amiright?

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:29 PM (9U1OG)

169 Ugh, they already voted for it. Cruz or Rubio missing?

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:30 PM (9U1OG)

170
Sen. Marco Rubio missed Fridays Senate vote approving a massive $1.8 trillion end-of-the-year spending bill and tax package a day after he suggested that he could try to slow the legislation down. The Florida Republican, who is running for president, was the only 2016 contender to miss the vote, which is the Senates final vote of the year.

Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), three other presidential candidates, all voted against the the legislation. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a fourth GOP presidential candidate from the Senate, backed the bill.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:30 PM (kdS6q)

171 Rubio has the title of Senator, but he has already punched out and is not interested in the job

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:31 PM (zv81W)

172 And you know the point of that tactic is so that family members dissuade or turn in their terrorist kin before they go jihad?

Posted by: andycanuck at December 18, 2015 12:31 PM (DLIIY)

173 165
Well then Caesar, we better make sure their families are with them when we kill them.

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (9U1OG)

That would defeat the purpose. Trump says they love their families and if we target their families they won't attack us, or something like that. If we killed the families at the same time, it would be pointless. Of course, if we killed their families and the terrorists weren't there, wouldn't that make them more likely to want to kill us, not less? But never let it be said that Trump made any sense.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:31 PM (5f5bM)

174 169 Ugh, they already voted for it. Cruz or Rubio missing?

Posted by: Jaimo at December 18, 2015 12:30 PM (9U1OG)

Rubio

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:34 PM (fWAjv)

175 if we killed their families and the terrorists weren't there, wouldn't that make them more likely to want to kill us, not less? But never let it be said that Trump made any sense.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:31 PM (5f5bM)
******
I am pretty sure they already want to kill us and are thinking up new and exotic ways in which to make it happen. We can do neither Jack, nor Squat which will make a difference in this matter

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:34 PM (zv81W)

176 1 Ace is (or was) pretty hacked off about it. Last night he was tweeting about voting for democrats just to send a message.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 18, 2015 11:49 AM (4ErVI)

I don't think voting for Democrats is a good idea. The GOPe is likely to conclude that the country has moved to the far left, and behave accordingly.

Posted by: rickl at December 18, 2015 12:35 PM (zoehZ)

177 106
Caesar, do you think the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes worthy of hanging? If not, why not?

Posted by: ejo at December 18, 2015 12:14 PM (il4FI)

Both were legitimate military targets.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:36 PM (5f5bM)

178 Rubio was threatening parliamentary maneuvers yesterday to block the bill. It is pretty hard to engage in those sorts of tactics when you don't even show up.

Cruz, Paul and Sanders all voted against.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:36 PM (fWAjv)

179 Scratch a Rubio and find a Harry Reid underneath.

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at December 18, 2015 12:38 PM (FtrY1)

180 I can answer that and I am not for Trump. Because
isis is not a partner in any form of just war. They behead children,
burn people in cages, have rape houses for their terror teammates. But
if prefer the old British stand in a line taking turns with musket shots
version of war with these guys...you first.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 12:07 PM (ODxAs)

This.

The Geneva Conventions only limit our actions against combatants that also signatories of the Geneva Conventions ISIS is not.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 12:38 PM (OrI3J)

181 175
if we killed their families and the terrorists weren't there, wouldn't
that make them more likely to want to kill us, not less? But never let
it be said that Trump made any sense.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:31 PM (5f5bM)

******

I am pretty sure they already want to kill us and are thinking up
new and exotic ways in which to make it happen. We can do neither Jack,
nor Squat which will make a difference in this matter

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:34 PM (zv81W)

************
You are correct. They want to kill us, and we should be working about ten times harder to kill them. The family targeting idea would have no effect if we were to do it, and it is so asinine that I cannot believe anyone who would advocate that position could be the leading candidate for the nomination and probably our next President. Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)

182
Rubio was threatening parliamentary maneuvers yesterday to block the bill. It is pretty hard to engage in those sorts of tactics when you don't even show up.
Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA

As the Dems noted yesterday, Rubio didn't even have to be there to put it on hold. He, or one of his staffers, just had to pick up the phone and say he wasn't going to consent to EZPass. The rules of the Senate and such.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 12:41 PM (kdS6q)

183 No excuses, Marco. Your poll numbers should tank to !jeb! single digits. Thanks for taking your job so seriously, el jefe.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at December 18, 2015 12:45 PM (7lqMl)

184
No Caesar, it's not unserious "to me". It's unserious. As in, I actually understand how these things work, and understand (not an "opinion") that this idea will go nowhere.

But this all a cul de sac for both of us.

Trump's intemperate impromptu proposals are of no consequence.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:45 PM (QDnY+)

185
The Geneva Conventions only limit our actions against combatants that also signatories of the Geneva Conventions ISIS is not.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 12:38 PM (OrI3J)

No, that's not true. That's true for some of the articles, but not all of them. Why do you think the lawyers for the Gitmo detainees were able to get jurisdiction in Hamdan versus Rumsfeld, 548 US 557 (2006)? They were held in violation of Common Article 3, which states the standards that signatories must follow in all circumstances, including in actions against undeclared enemy combatants. There was a serious legal question as to whether it applied to combatants that are not signatories, and the Supreme Court held that it did, in opposition to the Bush Administration. We lost on that point.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:47 PM (5f5bM)

186 The Omnibus Bill should be considered a $1 Trillion in-kind contribution to Donald Trump's campaign.

Posted by: V the K at December 18, 2015 12:47 PM (O7MnT)

187 Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)
**********
I wasn't advocating that. I was simply stating that they are coming for us, so we need to be prepared to do anything and everything to protect ourselves. Collateral damage doesn't bother me much in this instance.

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:47 PM (zv81W)

188 Okay, to the slow kids here, are you ready for Trump now?

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 18, 2015 12:48 PM (oDCMR)

189 184

No Caesar, it's not unserious "to me". It's unserious. As in, I
actually understand how these things work, and understand (not an
"opinion") that this idea will go nowhere.

But this all a cul de sac for both of us.

Trump's intemperate impromptu proposals are of no consequence.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:45 PM (QDnY+)

Yes, I do too, as you know, rhomboid. I do not rule out a President Trump taking illegal action that he has promised to take and that he believes is efficacious toward winning a conflict against nonstate actors by a finding.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:49 PM (5f5bM)

190 187
Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)

**********

I wasn't advocating that. I was simply stating that they are
coming for us, so we need to be prepared to do anything and everything
to protect ourselves. Collateral damage doesn't bother me much in this
instance.

Posted by: Hartmark at December 18, 2015 12:47 PM (zv81W)

Nor I.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:50 PM (5f5bM)

191 Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush's campaign has looked into whether it is possible to withdraw a pledge to support the eventual nominee if it is Donald Trump, a senior Bush aide said on Thursday, in a sign of the deep enmity between the two.
-----

*WZ

F You Jeb

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:50 PM (fWAjv)

192 I want to like Cruz, but at the debate he lied about both legalization and strengthening the meta-data program. Say you were wrong. Say you changed your mind. Say you're right and here's why. But don't say you didn't do what you did.

Posted by: Wolf Who Cried Boy at December 18, 2015 12:52 PM (l0bW1)

193
Caesar, jeebus X 10.

"There was a serious legal question as to whether it applied to combatants that are not signatories, and the Supreme Court held that it did, in opposition to the Bush Administration. We lost on that point."

No, the rule of law and common sense lost on that point. Kennedy the cretin broke new ground in usurping the treaty power - hitherto the SCOTUS had limited its destruction to grabbing legislative power and generally discarding serious constitutional jurisprudence.

The SCOTUS ruling in that case is as ludicrous and indefensible as anything it has done, even the last two Roberts spectaculars, or Kennedy's absurd and bizarre decree on marriage redefinition.

Again, adead-end in today's context. But the Common Article 3 issue was, to almost the level of a platonic ideal, the OPPOSITE of a "serious legal question".

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:52 PM (QDnY+)

194 Trump needs to publicly hand out copies of "The Art of the Deal" to Ryan and McCrony.

What a friggin disgrace

TRUMP 2016!

Posted by: Avi at December 18, 2015 12:54 PM (R3Dac)

195 Upstairs or downstairs. You kids make up your mind now.

Posted by: Tim in Illinios Old and Unimproved but reduced in Price. at December 18, 2015 12:56 PM (WVsWD)

196 187
Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:39 PM (5f5bM)

Are terrorists civilians ?

Posted by: Avi at December 18, 2015 12:57 PM (R3Dac)

197 I'm strongly learning now towards Trump now, even though I think he's a joke candidate.

This shit sandwich is simply a bridge too far, the GOP needs to be blown up.

I don't think Trump will win, but I just don't care anymore. I was hoping his ascendancy would make the GOPe correct curse, but instead they just floored it.

Posted by: Tobasco at December 18, 2015 12:57 PM (rpULs)

198 @GOP .... the official twitter of the Republican party, has absolutely no mention of the Budget deal.

https://twitter.com/GOP

Posted by: V the K at December 18, 2015 12:58 PM (O7MnT)

199 Via John Ekdahl, that immigration boost Ace was hammering yesterday? Yeah, the Democrats fought against it but the GOP insisted on it. Don't say they never fight for anything.

----

So..... they finally found a hill to die on.

Telling.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 18, 2015 12:58 PM (8XRCm)

200 187 Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.
--------------------------------------------------

Trump argues they aren't civilians. They are active supporters aiding and abetting ISIS war fighters, just as the San Bernardino terrorist mother was a witness to the conspiracy and preparations for the assault that killed 14 people.

If they aren't civilians and they don not subscribe to Geneva Conventions themselves, they explicitly (ie, by the terms of the Treaty itself) don't get protection and its open season.

You may argue its morally offensive to you, but to argue its illegal by treaty is factually wrong.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (TxJGV)

201 Too depressing... I think we've beaten this subject to death....

Posted by: donna at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (/dSsq)

202 At least no-one can mock Rubio for voting "present".

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (tBVEG)

203
Rush just had an interesting caller. Said he was a former King County (WA) GOP chairman or something on that order (which would make him fairly easily identifiable, but that's another issue).

He had very pertinent perspective on how, starting back in 2006 or so, he sensed a "decoupling" of the Beltway GOP and the actual country and voters.

Equally on point, he said the last few years - nominal GOP electoral surges, followed by actual defeats and reverses in policy - have made him "give up."

Limbaugh then did a fairly lame attempt to reinterpret the guy's own thoughts as "not knowing what to do" - my guess is Limbaugh is terrified, equally for business and principled reasons - of this concept of resignation by non-idiot Americans. He's made some pronounced and odd and implausible efforts like this in the past.

Anyway, the former WA GOP official's comments were likely a very good echo of the thoughts of many informed and involved people. If you are a normal person, these developments are infuriating and discouraging. If you wasted a lot of your life actually working in this area, you really have no basis for optimism. It's that bad.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (QDnY+)

204 Big red button time.
If you push it you eliminate all Muslims from the world and throw in libs for good measure.
Would you push it?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (QPdNE)

205 Leap frogging.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 01:02 PM (FkBIv)

206 face it...we're fucked.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at December 18, 2015 01:03 PM (0O7c5)

207 197
I'm strongly learning now towards Trump now, even though I think he's a joke candidate.

This shit sandwich is simply a bridge too far, the GOP needs to be blown up.

I don't think Trump will win, but I just don't care anymore. I was hoping his ascendancy would make the GOPe correct curse, but instead they just floored it.

Posted by: Tobasco at December 18, 2015 12:57 PM (rpULs)

It's almost as if, sensing the inevitability of a Trump presidency, they decided to abandon all pretense about caring for the base's priorities and are just throwing hail marys to limit Trumps options.

I won't say that they should all DIAF, because they deserve worse.

Posted by: rebel flounder at December 18, 2015 01:03 PM (3dOE/)

208 Rubio is so politically correct he cannot even do a show "no" vote...instead he is hiding in a Iowa cornfield.

And this is the guy who will stand up to Putin, and teach those Jihadists a lesson?

Posted by: William Eaton at December 18, 2015 01:03 PM (q52Ma)

209 F You Jeb.
Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 12:50 PM

Saw a new teevee ad for Heb! this morning. He is "the only one who stood up to the bully!" The ad showed a clip of him telling Trump he wouldn't win the presidency with insults. Big, Strong, Brave Heb!.

No more Bushes. No more Klintons.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 01:04 PM (ykopX)

210 The real Caesar had his own way of dealing with pretended migrants trying to invade his province.

If you were wondering how come the Netherlands and northeast German region doesn't have any countries in it named after the Tencteri or the Usipetes, feel free to do a search on those names

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 18, 2015 01:04 PM (tBVEG)

211 >>Leap frogging

It's a form of Switch Rape.

Posted by: Garrett at December 18, 2015 01:05 PM (kpwrI)

212 I suppose now that they've funded all of Obama's priorities through 2018, they can play "Pretend Opposition Party" in 2016 and hope we'll forget how they boned us.

Posted by: V the K at December 18, 2015 01:05 PM (O7MnT)

213 193

Caesar, jeebus X 10.

"There was a serious legal question as
to whether it applied to combatants that are not signatories, and the
Supreme Court held that it did, in opposition to the Bush
Administration. We lost on that point."

No, the rule of law and
common sense lost on that point. Kennedy the cretin broke new ground in
usurping the treaty power - hitherto the SCOTUS had limited its
destruction to grabbing legislative power and generally discarding
serious constitutional jurisprudence.

The SCOTUS ruling in that
case is as ludicrous and indefensible as anything it has done, even the
last two Roberts spectaculars, or Kennedy's absurd and bizarre decree on
marriage redefinition.

Again, adead-end in today's context. But
the Common Article 3 issue was, to almost the level of a platonic ideal,
the OPPOSITE of a "serious legal question".

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 12:52 PM (QDnY+)

rhomboid, I agree with you! But we have to take the world as it is, not as we would like it to be. The fact is that we are indeed subject to certain articles of the Geneva Conventions and similar treaties when we engage in military action outside of a war against other signatory states. Targeting noncombatant family members who are not in the zone of collateral damage is certainly illegal for the service members involved. If it is done using exclusively nonmilitary actors, then it is outside the UCMJ and subject to the US laws governing covert activity, specifically those on assassinations (although making it covert would again defeat Trump's stated purpose). If we use contractors from other countries, rather than our own covert operators, we still have some involvement by someone subject to US law somewhere in the chain of funding (and probably intelligence information). Trump is full of bluster, but I do not rule out that President Trump would express thoughts along these lines and someone on the WH staff would take him up on it. You and I both know yes-men who would charge ahead on the mission.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 01:05 PM (5f5bM)

214 204 Big red button time.
If you push it you eliminate all Muslims from the world and throw in libs for good measure.
Would you push it?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (QPdNE)

Gimme that!

Posted by: rickl at December 18, 2015 01:06 PM (zoehZ)

215 I think I'll just go Third Party from here on out. Maybe be one of those stupid libertarians people are always bitching about.

And if Trump doesn't get the nomination, I'm voting Hillary! because ... fuck it.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:06 PM (4sTLj)

216 Well, I'm out. Third party all the way. I know, it's throwing your vote away, except so is voting R and getting D policies.

Posted by: long time lurker at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (HZ3YU)

217 Bailout for Puerto Rico...

Or as I like to call it, Vacation-like Paradise for the World's Luckiest Heroin Addicts.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (TOk1P)

218 Wow. The Sanders campaign is going full war against the DNC and Hillary!

I need more popcorn.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (/tuJf)

219 Wonder how our conservative stalwart senators from NC voted.

I bet Burr voted against (he's up in 2016) but Kay Hagan, I mean Thom Tillis, voted for.

Posted by: Golfman - Xenophobe Extrodinaire at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (bPXBn)

220 Never trust a guy named Caesar unless he's trying to make you laugh. Otherwise, he tends to be quite the douche.

-from the collected writings of Sid Caesar.

Posted by: Sid Caesar at December 18, 2015 01:08 PM (wjpWH)

221 200
187 Not to mention that targeting civilians is a war crime, period.

--------------------------------------------------

Trump argues they aren't civilians. They are active supporters
aiding and abetting ISIS war fighters, just as the San Bernardino
terrorist mother was a witness to the conspiracy and preparations for
the assault that killed 14 people.

If they aren't civilians and they don not subscribe to Geneva
Conventions themselves, they explicitly (ie, by the terms of the Treaty
itself) don't get protection and its open season.

You may argue its morally offensive to you, but to argue its illegal by treaty is factually wrong.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 01:00 PM (TxJGV)

Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. The Geneva Conventions, at least certain articles, aply to us even when the folks on the other sides are not members of a uniformed military. Now, if they are involved, as some undoubtedly are, wonderful, I would argue until the cows come home that they are legitimate targets. But Trump wasn't limiting it to just family members who were involved.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 01:08 PM (5f5bM)

222 218 Wow. The Sanders campaign is going full war against the DNC and Hillary!

I need more popcorn.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (/tuJf)

Actually, I think the best thing that could happen is if both parties fracture along ideological lines.

Then, if we're lucky, we might get a realignment along individual liberty vs. statism lines.

Posted by: rickl at December 18, 2015 01:09 PM (zoehZ)

223 Hill's family is among nearly 10,000 black women and children who have moved into overwhelmingly white, prosperous suburbs through a court-ordered relocation program designed to combat the intense inner-city segregation and poverty forged by decades of discrimination

*over at GP

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 01:09 PM (fWAjv)

224
Did I put this on the last thread? Anyway, heard a snippet of Hewitt yesterday. Guest was a friend of the blog. Someone I'd never heard of before the kerfuffle over him here earlier this year (I'll leave it that vague).

Perfect embodiment of the unique, repulsive Beltway combo of condescension and cluelessness that has now almost completely taken over the "elites". Utterly idiotic, both substantively and politically. Oh, in case you missed it, Rubio's "granularity" in his answers at the last debate set him above Cruz and others in a way that will boost his candidacy.

WTFF?

Well, better than making adolescent comments, in writing, in public,verging on Secret Service regional office contact material, I guess.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 01:10 PM (QDnY+)

225 Are terrorists civilians ?

Posted by: Avi at December 18, 2015 12:57 PM (R3Dac)

Should have said, more specifically, noncombatants outside the zone of collateral damage.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 01:10 PM (5f5bM)

226 The ObamaCare 'Cadillac Tax' is being postponed. Thankfully the GOP has spared the Democrats biggest allies, unions, from feeling the effects of ObamaCare."

It appears time to retire the good old Party Of Stupid monicker for the GOP.

I move that we instead substitute Party Of Senile Dementia.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 18, 2015 01:10 PM (noWW6)

227 Serious question ... How long until the GOP comes out in favor of gun confiscation ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:11 PM (4sTLj)

228 -from the collected writings of Sid Caesar.
Posted by: Sid Caesar

I like your salad.

Posted by: Salad days and days of moldy mayonaise at December 18, 2015 01:11 PM (FkBIv)

229 Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 01:09 PM (fWAjv)

Amy Wilkinson, fair housing director for the Housing Authority of Baltimore City > We met very early on with the county executives. They understood we had
to do it. Their request was to make sure (the homes) are really
scattered and make sure we do it quietly.

Posted by: Golfman - Xenophobe Extrodinaire at December 18, 2015 01:12 PM (bPXBn)

230 218 Wow. The Sanders campaign is going full war against the DNC and Hillary!

I need more popcorn.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (/tuJf)

Yeah, that's been percolating this morning and I haven't quite gotten it.

But now there's a Bermie guy being all yelly on CNN and attacking the DNC.

Butter?

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:12 PM (1xUj/)

231 It's almost as if, sensing the inevitability of a Trump presidency, they decided to abandon all pretense about caring for the base's priorities and are just throwing hail marys to limit Trumps options.

I won't say that they should all DIAF, because they deserve worse.

Posted by: rebel flounder

I really do feel it's almost like the game has been exposed so they aren't expending the effort anymore to pretend to wear a mask.

I don't like Trump on many levels and I think he will ultimately lose to Hillary, but I've just given the benefit of the doubt too many times.

If this is how a Republican Congress is going to govern, what is the point anymore?

Posted by: Tobasco at December 18, 2015 01:12 PM (rpULs)

232 Never trust a guy named Caesar unless he's trying to make you laugh. Otherwise, he tends to be quite the douche.

-from the collected writings of Sid Caesar.

Posted by: Sid Caesar at December 18, 2015 01:08 PM (wjpWH)

:,-(

It's that mid-career drug "problem" I had, isn't it.

Posted by: Ceasar Cedeno at December 18, 2015 01:12 PM (TOk1P)

233 227 Serious question ... How long until the GOP comes out in favor of gun confiscation ?
Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:11 PM (4sTLj)

#twoweeks

Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (dQJCS)

234 Caesar North of the Rubicon

I fail to see why I should give two shits about some haji who would be glad to see me, my children and my friends dead.

Do. Not. Care.

Personally, we should have fucking nuked Medina after 9/11 with the warning that further fuckery by the barbarians would result into hitting mecca with enough ordinance to make it glow for 20,000 years.

Posted by: GMan at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (sxq57)

235 I suppose now that they've funded all of Obama's
priorities through 2018, they can play "Pretend Opposition Party" in
2016 and hope we'll forget how they boned us.

Posted by: V the K at December 18, 2015 01:05 PM

The hardcore Real Republicans -- the ones who natter on about how everything would be fine if we just had a Republican Congress and Preezy -- will indeed forget.

A lot of others won't but it won't make much of a difference. They're divided between those Keyboard Kommandos who will vote for Democrats because That Will Show The Republicans and the TDS crowd who probably won't vote for anyone.

The sensible voters -- still not sure how many there are -- will vote against all incumbents. They may put Teh Donald in the White House, but Congress will remain a sloppy barnyard full of pigs greedily slurping at the public trough.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (ykopX)

236 "Hill's family is among nearly 10,000 black women and children who have
moved into overwhelmingly white, prosperous suburbs through a
court-ordered relocation program"

Just in case anyone is still laboring under any illusions as to what that well-intentioned program has produced in terms of suburban crime, this piece makes for instructive and sobering reading:

http://tinyurl.com/bkv6bbp

Posted by: torquewrench at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (noWW6)

237 Serious question ... How long until the GOP comes out in favor of gun confiscation ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:11 PM (4sTLj)

Probably the day after.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (TOk1P)

238 Posted by: Golfman - Xenophobe Extrodinaire at December 18, 2015 01:12 PM (bPXBn)

Love that transparency

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 01:14 PM (fWAjv)

239 Serious question ... How long until the GOP comes out in favor of gun confiscation ?

Posted by: Irony

Who could be opposed to sensible gun safety?

Posted by: Ryan Paul Ryan at December 18, 2015 01:15 PM (FkBIv)

240 >>Yeah, that's been percolating this morning and I haven't quite gotten it.

>>But now there's a Bermie guy being all yelly on CNN and attacking the DNC.

Watching it too and I'm not sure exactly what's going on either.

It sounds like the Hillary! campaign is claiming that the Bernie? campaign hacked her voter database. In retaliation, the DNC (DWS) cut off the Bernie? campaign's access to a DNC managed voter database.

As long as there is blood I really don't care about the details.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:15 PM (/tuJf)

241 So very very boned.

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at December 18, 2015 01:16 PM (rwI+c)

242
Caesar, you're not arguing with me. I am not commenting on the Trump idea.

The SCOTUS decision was the essence of lawlessness. Yes = no, 1 + 1 = 4.3, up = down.

"Conflicts of an international nature". Which Kennedy - absurdly - "ruled" that the AQ-US war was NOT.

Yes, of course the Conventions apply to us. And the constitution limits and guides our form of governance. Except, ......

.....that when words mean nothing (and unambiguous negotiating history), then the foregoing statements are meaningless.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 18, 2015 01:16 PM (QDnY+)

243 Looks 2 me as if Marco Amnestio may not win a single state!

He's running third in IA & NH, trails Cruz AND Trump in... wait for it... FL! Whoa!

Is it just me, or is GOPe going to have to find itself a new open borders buttboy pretty soon?

Posted by: mnw at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (/Yg5r)

244 I just want to be sure I have this clear. The Republican party is the party of results, not intentions.

So. When I note the results of having Republican control of the House and Senate and ask why I should vote for those lying motherfuckers ever again, I'm screeched at about how the Democrats are worse and do I want them to win and do I want Republicans to hold up my values.

Seems legit.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (mf5HN)

245 Hill's family is among nearly 10,000 black women and
children who have moved into overwhelmingly white, prosperous suburbs
through a court-ordered relocation program designed to combat the
intense inner-city segregation and poverty forged by decades of
discrimination

*over at GP

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 01:09 PM (fWAjv)

Well sure. Decades of forced busing of school kids, and billions of dollars later, they figure they have to do SOMETHING.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (TOk1P)

246 The winners of wars usually don't get charged with war crimes. Only the losers do. Just sayin'.

Posted by: rickl at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (zoehZ)

247 A major bipartisan program like Social Security or Medicaid, Obamacare was passed by a party-line vote.

A war won at great cost and the victory then handed over to ISIS and Iran.

A thousand years of marriage law overturned without the Consent of the Governed by five lawyers.

Instead of the voters dissolving the Government and choosing their politicians, the politicians are dissolving the people and choosing their voters.

A Treaty to give Iran nukes, ICBMs and billions of dollars is ratified not by the US Senate, but by the Iranian Senate.

And Democrat budgets are passed by Republicans.

I wish I thought Donald trump was the answer.

Posted by: Wolf Who Cried Boy at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (l0bW1)

248 Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:13 PM (TOk1P)

Out Republican "leaders" are always in favor of sensible solutions to problems that can only be solved by government, so I fully expect them to support gun confiscation before the 2016 elections!!!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 18, 2015 01:18 PM (ftVQq)

249 As a loyal Republican, I appreciate the leadership of my party leaders in getting this bill passed. The anti-poor, anti-immigrant extremists must not be allowed to dictate spending priorities.

Many people have asked me who I support for my party's presidential nomination. I am not terribly excited about any of them, and if we nominate an extremist I will consider voting for Ms. Clinton.

While it is unfortunate that a perfect, Olympia Snowe-esque candidate is not running, we must press on and hope that a serious candidate emerges.

Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at December 18, 2015 01:19 PM (Ui7Rt)

250 As long as there is blood I really don't care about the details.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:15 PM

Crazy Uncle Bernie can rant all he wants, but I suspect his "base" is still mainly the Volvo-drivers of Vermont and a few loud hipsters. Shrillery will skoosh him like a bug. Even if he got past her, he'd turn out to be the George McGovern of 2016.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 01:19 PM (ykopX)

251 OT Rapey dolphin time.

"I did it on porpoise! Cheeky dolphin gets VERY
friendly as he tries to make girl stay in the ocean by bumping his nose
against her bottom"

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gqsgvhv

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 18, 2015 01:19 PM (XtAzU)

252 But Trump wasn't limiting it to just family members who were involved.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 01:08 PM (5f5bM)
------------------------------------------------------

Hampton doesn't apply: those were non-uniformed citizens of a signatory country. These are stateless guerillas demonstrably supported by the remaining surrounding population. There are no "civilians" in the sense of the treaty.

By your definition of the law, every time we bomb and aren't absolutely certain of who gets blown up we are committing war crimes. Its a totally unworkable definition of the rules, and would require a lawyer sit next to every pilot. Your definition means, effectively, we should just surrender now. It's ridiculous.

Moreover Trump did in fact limit his debate comments to family members who were involved (explicitly citing the San B mother as his example). I hate Trump, but I am admittedly way past this issue.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 01:19 PM (TxJGV)

253 President Trump will be a disaster, and I don't care.

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (rwI+c)

254 "Trump argues they aren't civilians. They are active supporters aiding and abetting ISIS war fighters"

I read a piece describing the travails of a Marine infantry unit which found itself in close heavy contact with Taliban fighters near a village in Trashcanistan.

The Marines, pinned down under interlocking fields of fire, could easily see women and underage males moving back and forth between the village and the Taliban entrenchments, bringing water, food, medical supplies, and ammo to the Taliban fighters.

The rules of engagement did not permit the "civilian" villagers to be fired upon since they were not holding weapons. Which is ALL OF THE BULLSHIT.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (noWW6)

255 @226 Torquewrench

Recall that the Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber thought that the Cadillac tax was a key provision to eventually help bend the healthcare cost curve down. All that's left of Obamacare is a massive expansion of coverage without the adequate means to pay for it. In the near term those with private plans who are not eligible for subsidies are getting royally screwed.

One of the few arguably good things in Dodd-Frank was to force Big Banks to run their Credit Default Swaps business away from their FDIC-insured bank subsidiaries. The Cromnibus bill reversed this so that in effect the US is back to being the reinsurer. So we're back to the same systemic risk that we had when Lehman failed.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (r1fLd)

256 I can't even see hope in the rearview mirror anymore. I want vengeance.

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (rwI+c)

257 DrewM harangue with no solution other than the pyrrhic one, then what conclusion are we to draw from that editorial decision?
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:28 PM (5f5bM)

Ooooo, oooooo, I know this one.

The old progressive "I never saw you criticize X so you must be OK with it" rant.

Ya know, we've never seen you complain about the holocaust so you MUST BE OK WITH IT. Therefore you are an anti-Semite by your own logic.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (JOG+K)

258 Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (mf5HN)

The nuance inherent in the "Democrats are worse" argument is a bitch to appreciate!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 18, 2015 01:20 PM (ftVQq)

259 >>Crazy Uncle Bernie can rant all he wants, but I suspect his "base" is still mainly the Volvo-drivers of Vermont and a few loud hipsters. Shrillery will skoosh him like a bug. Even if he got past her, he'd turn out to be the George McGovern of 2016.

Yea but a large number of those voters pulled the lever for Obama, twice. Anything that helps discourage them for voting for Hillary in the big dance is ok by me.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 18, 2015 01:21 PM (/tuJf)

260 Out Republican "leaders" are always in favor of
sensible solutions to problems that can only be solved by government, so
I fully expect them to support gun confiscation before the 2016
elections!!!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 18, 2015 01:18 PM (ftVQq)

Honestly, I think enough of them are still needing to run for office (for now) that they would never say anything publicly. Instead we are likely to get a Supreme Court decision, met with a shrug by "our" legislators who will once again abdicate any and all responsibility.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:22 PM (TOk1P)

261 I cannot stand Trump but him and Cruz are the only nonestablishment types that stand a chance of pulling off the nomination and the GOP establishment has got to be utterly destroyed. If it's neither of those two I'll vote for whatever loser the Libertarians nominate. I refuse to vote for an establishment candidate that's arguably the lesser of two evils. The Dems may be SOBs but at least they're up front with their base about their positions.

Posted by: Motorhead at December 18, 2015 01:22 PM (QZz3O)

262 Re 219.

Called it. Fcukers.

Posted by: Golfman - Xenophobe Extrodinaire at December 18, 2015 01:22 PM (mJhnw)

263 Caesar North you are wrong and not convincing anyone.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 01:22 PM (OrI3J)

264 236
See Houston after Katrina

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 18, 2015 01:23 PM (QPdNE)

265 So let me recap. Circle firing squad.

We are so fucked.

Posted by: Nip Sip at December 18, 2015 01:23 PM (jJRIy)

266 Seems legit.

Posted by: alexthechick -- love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM

My pre-election support/donation and voting "plans" for next year are fairly simple: no incumbents. None. At. All. And no career politicians.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 01:23 PM (ykopX)

267 I've had it.

When Iran nukes NYC and DC they will be doing the United States a favor. I just hope both houses are in session.

Posted by: rd at December 18, 2015 01:23 PM (Sffn6)

268 Daily Mail has a great and detailed take down on pompous actors. It really rips them new ones:

http://goo.gl/jQDSs1

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at December 18, 2015 01:24 PM (iQIUe)

269 Seems like a good time to ask ...

... What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

And damn quick.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:24 PM (4sTLj)

270 Seems legit.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:17 PM (mf5HN)

The legit-ist thing ever... they will tell you so themselves.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 01:25 PM (OrI3J)

271 "All that's left of Obamacare is a massive expansion of coverage without the adequate means to pay for it."

Yep. And let's remember the verbiage which Obama and Pelosi and Reid repeatedly trotted out as they were shoving Obamacare down our throats:

"Net deficit reducer."

Instead, this thing is going to swell the deficit to where it eclipses the Moon.

Posted by: torquewrench at December 18, 2015 01:25 PM (noWW6)

272 Ryan & McC decided to give Trump a helluva X'mas present today. Guess they figured he wasn't already doing pretty well.

Posted by: mnw at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (/Yg5r)

273 What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

Left-handed libertarian-leaning German-speaking ginger-loving flyfishermen.

OK, it's a small tribe.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (1xUj/)

274 Left-handed libertarian-leaning German-speaking ginger-loving flyfishermen.

OK, it's a small tribe.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (1xUj/)

I hate fishing.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:27 PM (TOk1P)

275 Caesar North you are wrong and not convincing anyone.
Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 01:22 PM (OrI3J)

Oh, there's some convincing going on, believe you me.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:27 PM (mf5HN)

276 Via John Ekdahl, that immigration boost Ace was hammering yesterday? Yeah, the Democrats fought against it but the GOP insisted on it. Don't say they never fight for anything.

======

Annnnnnd.... we're done here.

Posted by: Bigby's Shaking Hands at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (3ZtZW)

277 Rubio calls Cruz a "shameless phony." Pot = kettle.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (Nwg0u)

278 273
What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

Left-handed libertarian-leaning German-speaking ginger-loving flyfishermen.

OK, it's a small tribe.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (1xUj/)

Do you admit righties?

Posted by: rebel flounder at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (3dOE/)

279
I honestly don't understand Rubio's non-voting strategy on the Omnibus bill. He could've safely voted against the Omnibus as Cruz didwithout taking any damage. The big money Establishment donors pulling out of Jeb--er, um,withdrawing supportfrom Jeb's campaign, I mean--would've understood as long as backdoor reassurances were made regarding Marco's true loyalties.

Yes, the relationship between greedily passionate and willing Republican politicians andSugar Daddy Establishment types makes me uncomfortable in vague, indecipherable ways I don't fully want to explore.

Posted by: troyriser at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (UWlp+)

280 President Trump will be a disaster, and I don't care.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

President Anybody will be a disaster.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (FkBIv)

281 ... What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

And damn quick.
Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:24 PM (4sTLj)

Smegma crazies to the left! Gayboy berserkers, to the gate!

Posted by: Lord Humongous at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (vgIRn)

282 What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

Left-handed libertarian-leaning German-speaking ginger-loving flyfishermen.

OK, it's a small tribe.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (1xUj/)

I'll allow it.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (mf5HN)

283 Straight up ... We need to start cultivating face-to-face relationships with like-minded folks.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (4sTLj)

284 Just spent 30 minutes with staffer from my Representative that voted for the bill. Staffer was very polite and tried to engage me but failed miserably as far as I was concerned.

I asked if he would pass my request to his boss that I would appreciate a detailed list of why she voted for this bill detailing every beneficial aspect that made it a must have bill.

I told him tell your boss I'm voting D in 2016, because I'm tired of being betrayed!

Posted by: Hrothgar at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (ftVQq)

285
I still have the belief it will be the GOP that provides for more gun control too.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (ODxAs)

286 I honestly don't understand Rubio's non-voting
strategy on the Omnibus bill. He could've safely voted against the
Omnibus as Cruz didwithout taking any damage. The big money
Establishment donors pulling out of Jeb--er, um,withdrawing supportfrom
Jeb's campaign, I mean--would've understood as long as backdoor
reassurances were made regarding Marco's true loyalties.

Yes, the
relationship between greedily passionate and willing Republican
politicians andSugar Daddy Establishment types makes me uncomfortable in
vague, indecipherable ways I don't fully want to explore.

Posted by: troyriser at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (UWlp+)

The Rubio strategy at this point appears to be: "Must destroy Cruz."

I think it's that simple.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (TOk1P)

287 Rubio is going to get crucified for being a No Show. He's already been hit for missing votes.

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 01:31 PM (r1fLd)

288 Hmmm..

It appears that emotions are running a little high. Perhaps a nice soothing and calming book?

Mine is free if you have Kindle Unlimited.

Posted by: Elder Youngling at December 18, 2015 01:31 PM (Wrdbl)

289
So really, there is only one party in Ultra Rome.
So, funny story.
Colleague of mine, lady, Republican but country club republican, tells me she hates Trump. Viscerally. Boils down to she doesn't like his style he's rude "who says such rude things!! He's awful, just awful. He said Carly's face was ugly."
Me: For example,a politician goes to a party and gets drunk. In fact he's well known for havinga tendencyfor drinking. Lady at the partysays to him, by way of reproach,"Sir you are drunk!!!"Politician says: "Yes. I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober, you, however, my Lady,will still be ugly."
My colleaguegot thehistorical reference immediately. Theother party at the table, a liberal,couldn't follow, but rather than admit it, fulminated at length over Trump's unsuitability. Finished his venting with his real albeit irrational fear, that if Trumpgetselected he will destroy wealth and the dollar!!
So right, thebillionaire guy who spends all his time makingmoney wants to destroy his own wealth, along with yours . . . Huh?A lot of it is tribal signaling, on both sides and not a lot of logic.
If you want me to criticize Trump I'm happy to do it. I have no idea what his underlying unifying principles are? What are his values? Aside from "I'm going to do whatever I think is best for the country" I don't really know what his idea of "best" might be. Now you have to factor in that everyone else is basically unwilling to put the Country first and you have a really weird election. The kind of election you see right before a democracy goes tits up.

Posted by: simplemind at December 18, 2015 01:32 PM (JTwsP)

290 219
Wonder how our conservative stalwart senators from NC voted.

I bet Burr voted against (he's up in 2016) but Kay Hagan, I mean Thom Tillis, voted for.

Posted by: Golfman - Xenophobe Extrodinaire at December 18, 2015 01:07 PM (bPXBn)

GIVE IT UP. The stock fraud guy lost. Live with it. When Tillis votes for a new Supreme Court justice, it won't be the same vote Hagan would make.

But be sure to tell us about how your buddy the LOSER, on probation, would be doing a lot better. Has he paid his judgement yet?

Posted by: Nip Sip at December 18, 2015 01:32 PM (jJRIy)

291 Chuck Hagel whining about how badly he was treated by Obozo. Lay down with Odogs . . .

Posted by: The Great White Snark at December 18, 2015 01:33 PM (Nwg0u)

292 What, exactly, is our Tribe ? Because we're going to have to pick one.

===

Tribes/Clans are not picked. Its the extended family of where you are now, preferably with an identifiable chief.

Posted by: Bigby's Shaking Hands at December 18, 2015 01:33 PM (3ZtZW)

293 Hmmm..

It appears that emotions are running a little high. Perhaps a nice soothing and calming book?

Mine is free if you have Kindle Unlimited.

Posted by who cares...

-------------

Spam on a live thread. How cute.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:33 PM (TOk1P)

294 I'll allow it.
Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches

My Mistress is most gracious.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (1xUj/)

295 I'm done. LIB.

I think we should have our own dopey little sign-holding campaign.

We can all hold up signs saying "I'm a Republican and I'm not voting in 2016."

I think I hate the Repubs worse than the Dems at this point.

Posted by: PJ at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (cHuNI)

296 For what it's worth ... I don't think we'll be a democracy in twenty years.

And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (4sTLj)

297 We didn't land at Plymouth Rock, Plymouth Rock landed on us!

Hey has the SHILL shown up today to blow smoke up out asses?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (DUoqb)

298 I always saw myself as more of a Smegma Crazy than a Gayboy Berserker.

Posted by: Sid Caesar at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (wjpWH)

299 So, if the nominee isn't Trump, a whole lot of voters will leave the GOP.

The only thing that will staunch that bleeding at all will be nominating Cruz.

That is a no-go for the Party, so they'll push Rubio and try to steal it from anyone else.

In short, the GOP is in its last days. It will soon be a party without supporters.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (oVJmc)

300 Spam on a live thread. How cute.
Posted by: BurtTC

Lace machines

Posted by: Spam R. Eye at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (FkBIv)

301 I betta Trump went up another 10 points today

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2015 01:36 PM (DUoqb)

302 Left-handed libertarian-leaning German-speaking ginger-loving flyfishermen.
OK, it's a small tribe.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:26 PM (1xUj/)

Do you admit righties?
Posted by: rebel flounder at December 18, 2015 01:28 PM (3dOE/)

That'd be a very lefty thing to do.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at December 18, 2015 01:36 PM (0NdlF)

303 Posted by: Sid Caesar at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (wjpWH)

******

Hey! How's your grandma?

You know, Grand mal Caesar?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at December 18, 2015 01:36 PM (NeFrd)

304 My Mistress is most gracious.
Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:35 PM (1xUj/)

I am most benevolentish, 'tis true.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:37 PM (mf5HN)

305 So Fredo is gonna do more lying his ass off today i see. My G-D I want to puke

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 18, 2015 01:37 PM (DUoqb)

306 The only thing that will staunch that bleeding at all will be nominating Cruz.

===

Doubtful, TBH. Losing, to be sure.

Posted by: Bigby's Shaking Hands at December 18, 2015 01:37 PM (3ZtZW)

307 Hey! How's your grandma?

You know, Grand mal Caesar?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon

She's sitting over in the Caesarian section.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (FkBIv)

308 FTSB: Bloomberg: Scientists Ponder How to Create Artificial Intelligence That Won't Destroy Us

Of all the human brain systems that keep us from doing harm, guilt, empathy, shame, fear, etc., empathy is probably the most important one.

Six drops of essence of terror, five drops of sinister sauce ...

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (rwI+c)

309 Look, I have some really really good deals on stock.

Call me!

http://tinyurl.com/nc3ywwl

Posted by: Greg Brannon at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (jJRIy)

310
In expedited floor action, on the edge of the holiday recess, the Senate voted to end debate on the overall legislation, dispensed with several procedural steps, and approved the package. The vote was 65 to 33.

All of which could have been stopped by even one dissenting Senator.

Thanks Thom!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (kdS6q)

311 After a disastrous debate performance and sinking poll numbers, is the Trump circus finally over?

Plus, a body language expert says Marco Rubio's smile could bring World Peace.

Join me, Rich Lowry, a guy who buys Trump hats and shits in them on youtube, Cherry Jacobus and Strafe the Wonder Pigeon, tonight!

Posted by: Megyn Kelly at December 18, 2015 01:39 PM (Ui7Rt)

312 Oh, there's some convincing going on, believe you me.

Posted by: alexthechick - love and despair bitches at December 18, 2015 01:27 PM (mf5HN)

Perhaps I should have added "that you are right" after the word anyone:-P

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 01:39 PM (OrI3J)

313 Isn't it great to know that thanks to the GOPe, baby-killing at Planned Parenthood will go with full federal funding without so much as a hiccup?

Makes me feel great about helping to vote Republican majority into the House and Senate.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 18, 2015 01:39 PM (8ZskC)

314 Hey! How's your grandma?

You know, Grand mal Caesar?
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon

She's sitting over in the Caesarian section.

Is she jaundiced?

Because she's looking a little orange, Julius.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:40 PM (1xUj/)

315 I betta Trump went up another 10 points today

-
In excusing his gracious acceptance of Putin's endorsement, he said the US kills a lot of people, too. See HA. A lot of people won't like that.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (Nwg0u)

316 The Rubio strategy at this point appears to be: "Must destroy Cruz."

I think it's that simple.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (TOk1P)Tactics are about fighting. Strategy is about deciding when, where and sometimes whoto fight. If 'Destroy Cruz' is Rubio's strategy, then he's doing it wrong since Cruz and Rubio are going after different voter blocs. Cruz is evangelical/conservative base/populist while Rubio is pro-life, strong defense/immigration reform/Establishment. Not a whole lot of overlap that I can see, so what's the gain in attacking Cruz?The smart play for Rubio would be to ignore Cruz andattack Trump. For one thing, Jeb Bush is terrible at attacking Trump or anyone else. For another, there are a large number of GOP primary voters, both moderates and conservatives,who despise Donald Trump with the heat of a thousand suns. The smart candidate could pluck those voters like lilies in the field.

Posted by: troyriser at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (UWlp+)

317 Of all the human brain systems that keep us from doing harm, guilt, empathy, shame, fear, etc., empathy is probably the most important one.

=====

I thought when Buffalo Bill imitated the terrorized shrieking of that girl he had in the hole he was exhibiting wonderful empathy. Really putting himself in her skin, as it were.

Posted by: Bigby's Shaking Hands at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (3ZtZW)

318 Is it possible ... Based on who's up ... For the GOPe to lose the Senate in 2016 ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (4sTLj)

319 Straight up ... We need to start cultivating face-to-face relationships with like-minded folks.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:30 PM (4sTLj)

This.

Posted by: redbanzai at December 18, 2015 01:43 PM (OrI3J)

320 Six drops of essence of terror, five drops of sinister sauce ...Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! with purchase of equal or greater value commenter at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (rwI+c)

Awesome cultural reference.

Posted by: troyriser at December 18, 2015 01:43 PM (UWlp+)

321 Is there a reason to vote in November 2016? Cos I'm not really seeing one.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 18, 2015 01:43 PM (B8JRQ)

322 All of which could have been stopped by even one dissenting Senator.

Thanks Thom!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 01:38 PM (kdS6q)

I'd have done much better, but you know I still owe this judgement.

Laws, shit who would think, I a good looking guy, would have to obey them?

Posted by: Greg Brannon at December 18, 2015 01:43 PM (jJRIy)

323
Is it possible ... Based on who's up ... For the GOPe to lose the Senate in 2016?
Posted by: Irony

Who would notice the difference if they did....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 01:44 PM (kdS6q)

324 318 Is it possible ... Based on who's up ... For the GOPe to lose the Senate in 2016 ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (4sTLj)

A few more votes like this and they may lose the @$#%$^ House.

Posted by: rd at December 18, 2015 01:44 PM (Sffn6)

325 Is it possible ... Based on who's up ... For the GOPe to lose the Senate in 2016 ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM

No matter which way the elections go, the GOPe won't lose. The tracks for the Gravy Train -- which runs between Democrat HQ and the Chamber of Commerce -- stops at their door.

Posted by: MrScribbler at December 18, 2015 01:45 PM (ykopX)

326 No, the point is that he who chooses the topics controls the discussion. If you are satisfied with being fed red meat once a day by DrewM with no solution that works in the real world, it's your loss. Ace (and presumably the cobs through some sort of editorial decision process) chooses not to comment on the leading Republican Presidential contender advocating the commission of war crimes. Like I said, choose the topic, control the discussion.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at December 18, 2015 12:08 PM (5f5bM)

-----------------

WAR CRIME?!

We effin nuked an entire city, TWICE. Men, women, children, infant in arms. The whole kaboodle.

We also firebombed a city to total destruction.

We were allied with a ruthless dictator that killed millions of his own countrymen.

Get a effin life, loser.

Posted by: Make America Great Again at December 18, 2015 01:45 PM (LXJ1e)

327
Posted by: Greg Brannon*

*Nip Sip

"Daddy! Stop saying mean things about my boyfriend Thom! I -- I LOVE him!"

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 01:46 PM (kdS6q)

328 251 OT Rapey dolphin time.

"I did it on porpoise! Cheeky dolphin gets VERY
friendly as he tries to make girl stay in the ocean by bumping his nose
against her bottom"

http://preview.tinyurl.com/gqsgvhv
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 18, 2015 01:19 PM (XtAzU)

Oh sure. When the dolphin does it it's good for a laugh. When I do it I get handcuffed and slapped with a restraining order.

Posted by: Insomniac - Pale Horse/Death 2016 at December 18, 2015 01:46 PM (kpqmD)

329 "All of which could have been stopped by even one dissenting Senator."

But Obama needs to sign and then get out of Dodge. Those Oahu links and surf can't wait!

Posted by: Ignoramus at December 18, 2015 01:46 PM (r1fLd)

330 'The asshole used my gun in the shooting': California terrorist's friend claimed in 911 call just hours after massacre that he'd given Syed Farook a firearm for 'storage'
---

Ain't buyin' it asshole.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at December 18, 2015 01:46 PM (fWAjv)

331 MKH sounded mystified as to why Trump gets to roll around in the hay with Putin, endorse single-payer etc etc, and the GOP base accepts it enthusiastically. Why, she wonders?

MKH, its because he at least is open about it. The GOPe, by contrast, weasels its way to a worse point. Corruption is a helluva lot less attractive than anything Trump does or says.

I dislike Trump tremendously, but I'd vote for him over any of the shitheads other than Cruz, and I'd vote for him over the Criminal Clinton Clan in a NY minute.

Posted by: MTF at December 18, 2015 01:48 PM (TxJGV)

332 "Daddy! Stop saying mean things about my boyfriend Thom! I -- I LOVE him!"

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at December 18, 2015 01:46 PM (kdS6q)

He does have a pretty mouth, but his wife will not let us do tongue.

Bitch.

Posted by: Nip Sip at December 18, 2015 01:48 PM (jJRIy)

333 "Chuck Hagel whining"

Screw him.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 18, 2015 01:48 PM (LA7Cm)

334 333
"Chuck Hagel whining"

Screw him.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at December 18, 2015 01:48 PM (LA7Cm)

THIS! What a fvcking dickhead.

Posted by: Nip Sip at December 18, 2015 01:50 PM (jJRIy)

335 29 WIth that beard, I think Eddie Munster recited the Shahadah 3 times and now has some Muzzie name. Let's see, what would be good Muzzie name for Ryan....

Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at December 18, 2015 11:59 AM (dvuhZ)

How about Al-Ryan the goat fucker.

I think it has a nice ring.

Posted by: Killerdog at December 18, 2015 01:50 PM (YjCk2)

336 I saw Cadillac Tax and the No Shows open for Dwight Yoakam back in 1994.

Posted by: Moron in a Panthers Snuggie at December 18, 2015 01:51 PM (Ui7Rt)

337 Mystified . . Trump. . . Putin.

It should be obvious. We, the heretics, respect Putin more than Obama, whom we hate. Putin is trying to defend the interests of his country.

Obama is trying to destroy the country he leads.

Putin is rational. Obama is not.

Posted by: Elder Youngling at December 18, 2015 01:51 PM (Wrdbl)

338 Weasel: Pull the pins on the 5.56 and put it in your suitcase. Assuming it is an AR.

Posted by: Agitator at December 18, 2015 01:51 PM (3I9+Q)

339 I once tried to cultivate a face-to-face relationship with my Congressman, but I could never get my head to fit up his bottom.

Posted by: Sid Caesar at December 18, 2015 01:52 PM (wjpWH)

340 331 - I like MKH ... but I don't think, when the SHTF, that she'll do anything other than what she's told ... and probably wave as we go to the camps.

She's a follower. Not an outlaw.

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:52 PM (4sTLj)

341 Is it possible ... Based on who's up ... For the GOPe to lose the Senate in 2016 ?

Posted by: Irony at December 18, 2015 01:42 PM (4sTLj)

A few more votes like this and they may lose the @$#%$^ House.

Few more like this and it won't matter

Posted by: rickb223 at December 18, 2015 01:56 PM (Yllyl)

342 @341

At this point it cannot be discounted that the GOP is intentionally trying to lose the house and senate.

Nothing else makes sense when you intentionally and with great fan fare tell everyone that voted you into power to go fuck themselves.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 18, 2015 01:59 PM (mwGJC)

343
I think the establishment wants Trump to win.
They know the whole things going tits up in the next four years and they both want to stand back with arms folded and shake their heads at the voters and say "we told you not to vote for Trump". Because honestly, no one is enthusiastic about a Hillary Clinton presidency, not even Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: simplemind at December 18, 2015 02:03 PM (JTwsP)

344 Mystified . . Trump. . . Putin.

It should be obvious. We, the heretics, respect Putin more than Obama, whom we hate. Putin is trying to defend the interests of his country.

We are nationalists. We love America.

Putin is a nationalist. He loves Russia.

Nationalists can respect each other because we are both driven by a love for our own country.

We have a common enemy in the !Nationalists who hate all concept of country and nation.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at December 18, 2015 02:04 PM (0NdlF)

345 MKH, its because he at least is open about it. The GOPe, by contrast, weasels its way to a worse point. Corruption is a helluva lot less attractive than anything Trump does or says.
---

Yup there is something to be said about just being up front, if I have to eat a shit sandwich, I do tend to at least appreciate the person forcing me to do such not trying to convince me it's really a BLT.

--
337 Mystified . . Trump. . . Putin.

It should be obvious. We, the heretics, respect Putin more than Obama, whom we hate. Putin is trying to defend the interests of his country.

Obama is trying to destroy the country he leads.
Putin is rational. Obama is not.
Posted by: Elder Youngling at December 18, 2015 01:51 PM (Wrdbl)
--
Yup.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at December 18, 2015 02:04 PM (0NdlF)
--
Dittos

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at December 18, 2015 02:16 PM (MbrzC)

346 Whatever happened to MATH?

Posted by: Actinide at December 18, 2015 02:51 PM (EkY5U)

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A Few Notes On The Horrible, No Good, Omnibus Spending Bill Rubio Skips Cloture And Final Vote

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A Few Notes On The Horrible, No Good, Omnibus Spending Bill
Rubio Skips Cloture And Final Vote