Confederate Yankee
July 05, 2006
What You've Heard About His Weapons Is True
From the AP:
North Korea tests 7th missile amid furor
North Korea test-fired another missile Wednesday, intensifying the furor ignited when the reclusive regime launched at least six missiles, including a long-range Taepodong, earlier in the day.
Seven firings, none apparently lasting longer than six minutes, and the keystone was a spectacular failure that expired 40 seconds after launch.
Is this an impoverished Asisan dictatorship trying to project power, or Ron Jeremy's comeback tour?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:51 AM
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1
The North is just starving for attention.
Posted by: lawhawk at July 05, 2006 11:02 AM (m2RwJ)
2
Great Advertizing campaign. Buy our rockets, sure they suck, but they are cheap.
Posted by: David at July 05, 2006 02:23 PM (lK/7b)
3
Two pods of whales were duly terrorized and surrendered.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 05, 2006 06:35 PM (6gKLm)
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July 04, 2006
The More Things Change...
...the more they stay the same.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:05 AM
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1
It is an historical fact that most of the residents of New York City were pro-British, so why are we surprised when the New York Times also supports our enemies?
Posted by: olddawg at July 04, 2006 11:30 AM (Si1mC)
2
So, we're saying that treason and the NYT is merely a matter of tradition? Sounds as plausible as anything else...
Posted by: Old Soldier at July 04, 2006 04:08 PM (owAN1)
3
You guys can keep ranting about the Times, but it only makes NYT more established and more of a media authority than it already is...The best thing to do would be to ignore it.
I would take a more passive view of the world. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round as they say. If everyone were a Bush lover or hater, the world would be even more messed up than it already is...Balance that is....equilibrium....
Posted by: Johnny at July 04, 2006 08:15 PM (Vtwo9)
4
Isn't political humor funny?
Posted by: Hardy har har at July 05, 2006 12:10 AM (cGul9)
5
Johnny, perhaps you can ignore a thorn in your side; however, some of us would prefer to do something about it. Too, declining subscriptions and new internet usage fees seem to disprove the promise of our rhetoric making the NYT any stronger.
Posted by: Old Soldier at July 05, 2006 10:12 AM (X2tAw)
6
Shouldn't that be Terrorists according to the NYTs Big Book of Equivalents?
Posted by: David at July 05, 2006 02:27 PM (lK/7b)
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"What July Fourth Means to Me"
For one who was born and grew up in the small towns of the Midwest, there is a special kind of nostalgia about the Fourth of July.
I remember it as a day almost as long-anticipated as Christmas. This was helped along by the appearance in store windows of all kinds of fireworks and colorful posters advertising them with vivid pictures.
No later than the third of July – sometimes earlier – Dad would bring home what he felt he could afford to see go up in smoke and flame. We'd count and recount the number of firecrackers, display pieces and other things and go to bed determined to be up with the sun so as to offer the first, thunderous notice of the Fourth of July.
I'm afraid we didn't give too much thought to the meaning of the day. And, yes, there were tragic accidents to mar it, resulting from careless handling of the fireworks. I'm sure we're better off today with fireworks largely handled by professionals. Yet there was a thrill never to be forgotten in seeing a tin can blown 30 feet in the air by a giant "cracker" – giant meaning it was about 4 inches long.
But enough of nostalgia. Somewhere in our growing up we began to be aware of the meaning of days and with that awareness came the birth of patriotism. July Fourth is the birthday of our nation. I believed as a boy, and believe even more today, that it is the birthday of the greatest nation on earth.
There is a legend about the day of our nation's birth in the little hall in Philadelphia, a day on which debate had raged for hours. The men gathered there were honorable men hard-pressed by a king who had flouted the very laws they were willing to obey. Even so, to sign the Declaration of Independence was such an irretrievable act that the walls resounded with the words "treason, the gallows, the headsman's axe," and the issue remained in doubt.
The legend says that at that point a man rose and spoke. He is described as not a young man, but one who had to summon all his energy for an impassioned plea. He cited the grievances that had brought them to this moment and finally, his voice falling, he said, "They may turn every tree into a gallows, every hole into a grave, and yet the words of that parchment can never die. To the mechanic in the workshop, they will speak hope; to the slave in the mines, freedom. Sign that parchment. Sign if the next moment the noose is around your neck, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the Bible of the rights of man forever."
He fell back exhausted. The 56 delegates, swept up by his eloquence, rushed forward and signed that document destined to be as immortal as a work of man can be. When they turned to thank him for his timely oratory, he was not to be found, nor could any be found who knew who he was or how he had come in or gone out through the locked and guarded doors.
Well, that is the legend. But we do know for certain that 56 men, a little band so unique we have never seen their like since, had pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. Some gave their lives in the war that followed, most gave their fortunes, and all preserved their sacred honor.
What manner of men were they? Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists, 11 were merchants and tradesmen, and nine were farmers. They were soft-spoken men of means and education; they were not an unwashed rabble. They had achieved security but valued freedom more. Their stories have not been told nearly enough.
John Hart was driven from the side of his desperately ill wife. For more than a year he lived in the forest and in caves before he returned to find his wife dead, his children vanished, his property destroyed. He died of exhaustion and a broken heart.
Carter Braxton of Virginia lost all his ships, sold his home to pay his debts, and died in rags. And so it was with Ellery, Clymer, Hall, Walton, Gwinnett, Rutledge, Morris, Livingston and Middleton.
Nelson personally urged Washington to fire on his home and destroy it when it became the headquarters for General Cornwallis. Nelson died bankrupt.
But they sired a nation that grew from sea to shining sea. Five million farms, quiet villages, cities that never sleep, 3 million square miles of forest, field, mountain and desert, 227 million people with a pedigree that includes the bloodlines of all the world.
In recent years, however, I've come to think of that day as more than just the birthday of a nation.
It also commemorates the only true philosophical revolution in all history.
Oh, there have been revolutions before and since ours. But those revolutions simply exchanged one set of rules for another. Ours was a revolution that changed the very concept of government.
Let the Fourth of July always be a reminder that here in this land, for the first time, it was decided that man is born with certain God-given rights; that government is only a convenience created and managed by the people, with no powers of its own except those voluntarily granted to it by the people.
We sometimes forget that great truth, and we never should.
Happy Fourth of July.
Ronald Reagan
President of the United States
1981
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:42 AM
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1
Wise words from a wise and moderate man, with a good family. I wish he were our leader today.
Posted by: Johnny at July 04, 2006 08:43 AM (Vtwo9)
2
Yes, wise words from a wise man; truly a great American. When I read this I have no doubt that Ronnie was speaking from his heart.
I don't necessarily wish he were president today but rather I wish that more politicians (from both parties) today were be more like him in honesty, sincerity, courage, and patriotism.
Posted by: bws at July 04, 2006 09:08 AM (oofir)
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Just another reason why I have always been a fan of Dutch. He is missed by all. There have been few men like him, and there will be fewer yet. From day one, I have always had a special place in my heart for him... even before I saw him working in politics.
Posted by: Carnivore at July 04, 2006 02:12 PM (hGP06)
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Could you imagine Reagan with a wholly Republican controlled congress? It would be like heaven on earth. I miss him too, but it's time to put the sadness aside and rejoice in his memory and the America that resurrected after a decade (or two?) of decline.
The world would be incalcuably more horrible if he had never lived. Thanks, Mr. President.
Posted by: Kevin at July 04, 2006 11:58 PM (++0ve)
5
I love this speech...and the man who made it! Thanks for the reminder of what it's all about...
Posted by: Chris at July 05, 2006 08:45 AM (XCo9J)
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July 03, 2006
Mount Misery Mind Games
Liberal blogger Glenn Greenwald is having a grand old time pointing fingers at some conservative bloggers who blasted the New York Times from running a fairly detailed puff piece about the St. Michaels, MD area that is home to Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld:
As I documented at length this weekend, Michelle Malkin, John Hinderaker, Red State, David Horowitz and many others of that sort spent the weekend engaged in the most vicious and self-evidently misguided attacks on The New York Times based on a puff piece in this weekend's "Escapes" section. Because the article contained a photograph of Don Rumsfeld's vacation home, they insisted that this was reckless and even retaliatory-- i.e., done with the intent to enable Al Qaeda operatives and other assassins to murder Rumsfeld (as well as Dick Cheney), and that it was further evidence of the war being waged by the NYT and its employees on the Bush administration and the U.S.
For so many obvious reasons, based on easily obtainable information -- including the fact that multiple right-wing news outlets such as NewsMax and Fox and others had previously disclosed this same information months earlier, that this information is commonly reported about government leaders in both parties, and the fact that we always know where our top government officials live and spend their weekends because they have Secret Service protection -- these accusations were as false as they were hysterical.
And let's face it—Greenwald
knows hysterical, so I bow to his expertise. Unfortunately, I was too busy moving into my own country estate this weekend to comment at the time, but I still have some Monday morning quarterbacking to do all the same.
A large part of the controversy seems to revolve around the fact that
Times artile not only spoke of the two homes, it actually provided a partial picture of the Rumsfeld home "Mount Misery" as shot from the street.
Here it is a bit closer, magnified as much as the JPG format will allow.
It is interesting to see how the house has changed over time. The photo of the home below was take back when Mount Misery was a
bed and breakfast.
Here it is a bit closer, once again magnified as much as the JPG format will allow.
Interesting how things change over time, isn't it? The red brick Rumsfeld home (top photo) has taken on a new window over the front door since its days as a B&B (below).
Certainly, red brick federal homes all certainly look an aweful lot a like... you don't think that the Rumsfeld's might have used a "decoy house" to prevent the
Times from revealing more "classified information," do you?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:21 PM
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1
Nice house. They are living well.
Posted by: Johnny at July 03, 2006 04:17 PM (Vtwo9)
2
We must systematically execute all liberals and democratnazis now, now, now. Let the purges begin. God help me I hate them so much. Kudos to you brother in arms for pointing out the truth!!!!!!!
Posted by: Jehovah at July 03, 2006 05:09 PM (qcIIv)
3
The first photo is of the front side of the house, the second is of the back.
Posted by: Mat at July 04, 2006 09:20 AM (kVBtr)
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"The Times artile [sic] spoke of two homes?" Nice find and good spelling. Too bad Rummy gave permission to take the picture of what is obviously a different vantage point (unless he bought it 200 years ago, thus giving time for the greenery to grow). Is this really the argument you want to make? I can hear the fingernails grasping for purchase ....
you're funny!
Posted by: josh at July 05, 2006 04:35 PM (vnPpo)
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Iraq War Rape/Murder Suspect Arrested in Western NC
Via the News & Observer:
Federal prosecutors charged a veteran of the Iraq war with murder and rape Monday following an investigation into the killing of an Iraqi woman and members of her family.
Steven D. Green, a 21-year-old former private first class who was discharged from the Army, appeared in a federal magistrate's courtroom in Charlotte Monday. Prosecutors said Green and other soldiers entered the home of a family of Iraqi civilians, where he and others raped a member of the family before Green shot her and three of her relatives to death.
The FBI said its agents arrested Green on Friday in Marion, N.C., and he is being held without bond pending a transfer to Louisville, Ky. Green had served with the 101st Airborne, based at Fort Campbell, Ky.
The case is being handled by federal prosecutors because Green has been discharged from the Army. According to an affidavit filed along with the criminal complaint, Green was discharged "before this incident came to light. Green was discharged due to a personality disorder."
Green was alleged to have killed three of the four family members, and participated in the rape. He could face the death penalty if convicted. He is the only soldier beign investigated in the Mahmudiyah rape/murder case to have been discharged.
Marion, NC is a small town near Lake James, west of Morganton.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:58 AM
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This Sounds Familiar Somehow...
It's a regular Bush vs. Gordita:
Mexico's presidential election was too close to call Sunday, with a leftist offering himself as a savior to the poor and a conservative free-trader both declaring themselves the winner. Officials said they won't know who won for days.
Electoral officials said they could not release the results of Sunday night's quick count of the votes, which they previously said would happen only if the leading candidates were within one percentage point of each other. Luis Carlos Ugalde, president of the Federal Electoral Institute, said an official count would begin Wednesday, and a winner will be declared once it's complete.
As Dafydd notes at
Big Lizards, the leftist candidate says that according to
his figures he won, while the more conservative candidate notes the official preliminary count is showing him with a slim but important lead.
Under Mexican law, in the event of a tie, a winner is selected based upon the best human sacrifice to Aztec god of civilization Quetzalcoatl.*
* Not actually true, but it would be considered by most international observers to be a more humane way to settle a presidential election that the U.S. court system.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:11 AM
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The Amontillado Option
It was an affront to common sense, a willful and undermining misreading of the Geneva Conventions, and a blatantly unconstitutional stab at grabbing power from both the Legislative and Executive branches, but the Supreme Court's much disputed and reviled Hamdan decision—which some have stated is on par with Dredd Scott and Pessy vs. Ferguson as "a great 'self-inflicted wound'"—might actually have a silver lining after all, as pointed out briefly by Captain Ed:
The ruling from the Supreme Court that essentially grants terrorists Geneva Convention protections needs to get reversed as quickly as possible. The court's majority decision declared that the Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF) issued by Congress in 2001 somehow did not cover the establishment of military tribunals for unlawful combatants, which leaves Congress the opening to fill the gap.
I actually prefer the method that Justice Stevens explicitly left open to the Bush administration in his opinion: leave them detained until hostilities cease in the war on terror. Radical Islam does not leave many deterrents to its lunatic pawns. Death in combat or a summary execution suits them fine. Public trials give them the opportunity to exploit our civil justice system as platforms for their screeds, as Zacarias Moussaoui showed. However, the perpetual and anonymous detention offered by Stevens does give the terrorists the one situation they find most repellent -- and that could persuade at least a few of them that taking on the US holds nothing but a miserable stretch of decades in an iron cage, with no public outlet for their hatred.
I've mentioned in the past that if we are going to extend Geneva Protections to terrorists (who are disbarred from Geneva Protections due to
Article 4.1.2, no matter what Justice Stevens says), then we should specifically use the portion of the Geneva Conventions that favors us the most.
The world has been at war with Islamic fundementalists at shifting borders for almost 1,400 years. More than millennia of precedent indicates that Islam—which divides the world into the House of War and House of Submission—will be at war with the rest of the world as long as it exists.
While President Bush was taking steps with the tribunals struck down by
Hamdan to provide some sort of attempt at providing trials, perhaps he shouldn't have bothered.
Ironically, the Supreme Court now gives us a containment option straight out of a horror story.
Edgar Alan Poe's
The Cask of Amontillado is perhaps one of the most classic horror stories; a man repeatedly wronged by another lures his victim into a dank catacombs where he first chains him, and then proceeds to wall him up alive.
Justice John Paul Stevens and the four other prevailing members of the Court have now set the stage for the terrorists we've captured to remain under U.S. custody without any sort of trial whatsoever for decades to come. They may conceivably be confined as prisoners of war—in good health, not bound in catacombs, mind you—until either they expire or jihad against the West ceases.
The Court has created the chance for the perpetual internment of captured terrorists without the mess of a jury trial. Somehow, I doubt liberals will be as happy with the
Hamdan decision as they once were if this or following Administrations uses this option.
Frankly, I prefer tribunals, but I could force myself to live with this.
In pace requiescat!
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:35 AM
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Fly Like a Butterfly...
...sting like General Ali.
Via the
Real Ugly American.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:26 AM
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Random Acts?
On March 12, five soldiers from the 502nd Infantry Division allegedly raped a 15-year-old Iraqi girl killed her and her family, and then burned her body in an apparent attempt to hide the evidence of their crime.
Roughly three months later, on June 23, one of those soldiers confessed after soldiers from the same platoon were ambushed, and two GIs captured in the ambush were horrifically tortured and killed. Was there a cause-and-effect, tit-for-tat exchange of atrocities south of Baghdad? At least one key player
seems to think so:
The official in Iraq whom the wire service quoted said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one of them to reveal the rape and slaying on June 22.
Would "feelings of guilt" mean that this soldier felt the torture and murder of men from his platoon was in retaliation for his own acts? Absent any other explanation, it seems a plausible assumption.
It is, of course, quite possible and even probable that the ambush and capture of Menchaca and Tucker at their Yusifiyah checkpoint was an act completely unassociated with the rape and murders down the road at Mahmudiyah. It seems that most of the neighbors were
willing to believe this was a sectarian killing performed by Shiite militiamen.
But there was at least one notable exception.
Omar Janabi, a neighbor of the slain family, seems to be the star witness of this case, not only having conversations with the mother about here fears of a potential assault before the incident, but was also among the first to see the bodies.:
Janabi was one of the first people to arrive at the house after the attack, he said Saturday, speaking to a Washington Post special correspondent at the home of local tribal leaders. He said he found Abeer sprawled dead in a corner, her hair and a pillow next to her consumed by fire, and her dress pushed up to her neck.
"I was sure from the first glance that she had been raped," he said.
Despite the reassurances he had given the girl's mother earlier, Janabi said, "I wasn't surprised what had happened, when I found that the suspicion of the mother was correct."
And yet, three months passed without any indication that Janabi went to the Iraqi military or police to report his suspicions. Perhaps it was a cultural difference; perhaps it was fear of possible retribution, but in any event he believed U.S. soldiers from this unit was responsible for the capital crimes against his neighbors.
A Sunni in the heart of the Sunni insurgency, Janabi most likely "knew somebody who knew somebody" who would be capable of a retaliatory strike—perhaps a strike that took three months to reconnoiter, plan, and execute—that might send a message to the soldiers who committed these rapes.
Perhaps the tortuous deaths of men from Company B, 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry Regiment weren't quite a random act of barbarity after all.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:57 AM
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Exactly what is a "Washington Post special Correspondent? An unvetted stringer? An Islamist? A Baathist? An objective Journalist like Bill Keller?
Just asking.
Posted by: RiverRat at July 03, 2006 01:01 AM (oNFas)
2
It's simple. If they are guilty, I see good candidates for the death penalty (minimum of life in jail).
That crime dosen't excuse capture and torture at all. Two seperate crimes. Fry the torturers as well.
Posted by: Retired Navy at July 03, 2006 05:51 AM (y67bA)
3
Don't jump to conclusions about what are now allegations. To me, without knowing more, the story sounds fishy because it does not sound like the conduct of American soldiers. But we do know more: the place of the alleged incident is insurgent-riddled, the source of the story is a Muslim Sunni group with strong links to al-Zarquawi's group (sometimes referred to as al Qaeda's presence in Iraq), and one of the ploys of the terrorists is to concoct false stories of American atrocities, hoping to hit the My Lai button.
Posted by: Phil Byler at July 03, 2006 08:39 AM (/kIDl)
4
Hey tools
Raping and killing innocent women and children is now the American way, is it?
A 14 year old girl gang raped while her family is murdered in front of her....
These are the ideals American was founded for? This is the liberation you promised Iraqis?
And you wonder why the WHOLE WORLD (not just the Middle East), hates America? Go anywhere on this planet, even Canada, and tell them you are American and you will get nothing but hatred due to agression and militarism like this.
I can almost cry when I think of the horror and terror this little girl must have felt as she died. What a terrible world we live in....
Posted by: gfx at July 10, 2006 10:44 PM (uUuz/)
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July 02, 2006
Bloodthirsty Knave Gets Unmarked Grave
He's worm food now:
Iraqi National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie told The Associated Press that al-Zarqawi had been buried in a "secret location" in Baghdad.
The U.S. military confirmed the burial but declined to give more details.
"The remains of Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi were turned over to the appropriate government of Iraq officials and buried in accordance with Muslim customs and traditions," the military said in an e-mailed statement. "Anything further than that would be addressed by the Iraqi government."
al-Zarqawi died approximately an hour after sustaining catastrophic injuries in a June 7 airstrike. The cause of death was listed as a primary (blast) injury to the lung.
The last thing he saw on this earthly plain was American and Iraqi soldiers standing over him, side-by-side. I take some small satisfaction in that.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:53 AM
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I would have thrown in some pig entrails, a couple pints of blood for jewish, hindu and christians, shredded the body and scattered the parts across the world.... no way he'd be getting to heaven and claiming his virgins. And I'd film it and broadcast it... just so his followers have a little something to think about.
Posted by: steve sturm at July 02, 2006 05:50 PM (XBWtm)
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June 30, 2006
Curses! Foiled Again
It looks like one of them college edumacated fellers over at the Daily Kos musta figgered us out.
With smart folks like that, how are we ever going to
keep those negroes out of office?
They's too
swift for us.
I
wonder what going to happen come the 'lections?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:38 PM
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Always good to know what the other side thinks of us. Yet another reason why I don't have much use for lefties.
There has always been a certain amount of regional distaste inherent in my own dislike for the Left: primarily based on sentiments like this, which I have always known existed even where un-uttered.
Posted by: El Jefe Maximo at June 30, 2006 01:17 PM (J1MfB)
2
I don't normally waste my time by reading anything on Kos, but every now and then it is an interesting exercise to go over there and get my annual lesson on tolerance, diversity, inclusion, compassion, and concern for the well being of all of mankind.
Then I return to the real world.
By the way, arguing the rights and wrongs of 1860 through the prism of 2006 is plain dumb.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at June 30, 2006 01:22 PM (jHBWL)
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"By the way, arguing the rights and wrongs of 1860 through the prism of 2006 is plain dumb."
Southernroots, go figure that the left would do such a thing...
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 30, 2006 02:18 PM (owAN1)
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That guy has a terminal case of 'angry'.
Posted by: Kevin at June 30, 2006 03:17 PM (++0ve)
5
The very definition of seething. Poor spelling, improper punctuation, lots of profanity and personal slurs. Throw in some racially motivated invective, and you have a moonbat cocktail!
There should be a group blog that highlights all the insane lib stuff in one spot
Posted by: William Teach at June 30, 2006 03:47 PM (IRsCk)
6
I get the vibe that eventually this whackjob or somebody very like him will send letter-bombs to Wal-Mart execs in the manner of the Unabomber.
Posted by: Zhombre at June 30, 2006 04:01 PM (/31Si)
7
I just get a chuckle everytime I see some liberal come unhinged and speak like this. What is really amusing is to hear this kind of nonsense and then watch them scream about the "intolerance" of conservatives. Even better is when they scratch their heads and wonder just why the South and West is so difficult for them to win. Well duuuuh...
Posted by: John (AGJ) at June 30, 2006 04:30 PM (D5Sti)
8
Um, California, Oregon and Washington St are all quite blue.
Posted by: Lint at June 30, 2006 05:44 PM (uAgTv)
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As a minority who grew up in the South who considers himself well left of center on social issues, I think that rant on Kos was moronic.
I think people can disagree on political issues and still remain on cordial. Raising the level of invective to these ridiculous heights doesn't do any one any good.
I make fun of my so-called "peckerwood" friends for their guns and trucks, they make an equal amount of fun for my vegetarianism. We all manage to suck a few beers down at the end of the day and toast each other.
Getting along isn't really all that hard. Yell all you want about the other guy. But, jeez, don't take it so damn personally (like this Kos fool) and don't make fun of people's mothers.
In any case, happy 4th of J. Hoist a cold one to your favorite lib (or conservative). At the end of thet day, we're all still Americans...regardless of our differences in opinions.
Posted by: Lint at June 30, 2006 05:55 PM (uAgTv)
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Some expanded thought on the elite of this country and those who follow rank and file, thinking they are part of the elite....Some cold hard truths....I said "some"...so don't attack Johnny tonight...But dude!...That guy is pissed! He needs a drink! Get that guy a drink! Quick!
Posted by: Johnny at June 30, 2006 07:09 PM (Vtwo9)
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I'm a native New Yorker who lived in North Carolina for five years, and I tell my southern friends that the smarter than thou bigotry they will encounter in Manhattan by the self-styled lefty elite is far worse than anything I encountered from the "good ol' boys" in Dixie.
Posted by: Tom TB at July 01, 2006 05:30 AM (Ffvoi)
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Amen, Lint. Look me up when you're in Knoxville, and I'll buy you that beer.
Posted by: kev at July 01, 2006 08:56 AM (YH8EG)
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I wonder if them college edumacated fellers over at KOS and them Bimbo's out in Ca. have figured out that if a BIO/Chem attack using the same type of non-existant WMD that have been found in Iraq are to be really effective they will be launched in Ca. All the need is a few baloons a mile off shore to release the BIO/Chem and the prevailing wing (west to east) will spread it all over Ca. and inland. If the terrorists have located and recovered anything near what the U.S. military has i'd consider living somewhere else for a while. I'm not one of them edumacated fellers but i figured this out real easy.
Posted by: Scrapiron at July 01, 2006 08:43 PM (wZLWV)
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Think that all they have to do to get rid of the terrible people in Dixie is to allow them their freedom. The concept of this is once again becoming real in our lifetime.
Posted by: David Caskey, MDd at July 02, 2006 06:16 PM (FwPOn)
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Further Thoughts on Hamdan
From a comment left on this post:
Without law to govern our actions, we are no better than the terrorist who's objective is to destroy our way of life.
And therein lies a key thought of many American liberals. He—and others like him—truly believe that courts protect our liberties and our lives.
He will never understand that the Supreme Court did not have the legal authority to rule on Hamdan (Congress passed DCA '05, legally stripping them of jurisdiction, which SCOTUS then illegally usurped back from Congress). He will never understand that the Constitutionally defined Commander in Chief powers outweigh those powers the Court unilaterally gives itself.
He will not bother to understand the Court trampled on the Constitution in
Hamdan with a
murky application of international law, nor will he admit that they
ignored the plain meaning of the Geneva Convention, which all but specifically exempts terrorists from Geneva protections under
Article 4.1.2. To people like him, the Supreme Court, an un-elected body of political appointees, is the ultimate and unquestioned law of the land.
This is not how this nation was set up. The Court is but one of three co-equal branches of government, and it does not rule over the others. But my, oh my, it tries.
The Court in this decision pulls a trifecta. It ignores Congress, overreaches into the President's executive powers as Commander in Chief, and not content to stop there, decided a case based upon international law instead of following the U.S. Constitution.
And yet, people view the court to be infallible with an almost religious fervor, and actually think that the court protects our lives and liberties.
It doesn"t.
Tens of millions of men have protected our lives and liberties by putting on a uniform and picking up a rifle to stop the barbarians crashing the gates, while judges simply
sat.
Don't tell me who guards my liberty. Is isn't a sleepy Ginsberg, or a decrepit Stevens, or a gesturing Scalia, or any other Supreme Court judge through the history of a Court that misunderstood for
nearly 200 years the simple phrase, "that all men are created equal."
The people protecting my liberties are 20-year-olds with guts and guns.
In the end, the law is just a piece of paper, reflecting the ideas of a culture, and those ideas are not always just or fair or true. Often, despite the veneer of precedent and legalese, court decisions are arbitrary, capricious, dangerous and cruel.
The
Hamdan decision is one such poor example, and highly why the Supreme Court is anything but infallible.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:09 AM
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1
great!
another point:
the geneva convention is a friggin TREATY, and is NOT INTERNATIONAL LAW!
the scotus treats it as if it is LAW and not merely a mutual benefit treaty among signatories.
and according to the GENEVA TREATY, it DON'T APPLY TO AL QAEDA!
Posted by: reliapundit at June 30, 2006 11:48 AM (84Fts)
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whatr happened here was the LEFTIES of the court had made up their minds YEARS AGO, and kennedy went with them - his leftie buddies, instead of making a stand with the right which would have made him UNPOPULAR wi9th the left. his home has been on the left for a decade.
Posted by: reliapundit at June 30, 2006 11:50 AM (84Fts)
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CY,
So now you're a constitutional scholar? Jeez, grow up. The Supreme Court finally decided that the other branches of government are not irrelevant after all. Even during a "war". Now, if only we can convince Congress that they have a role to play too.
Also, if you have a problem with the Supreme Court being the "ultimate and unquestioned law of the land", you have a problem with the constitution, not Nancy Pelosi. I wonder if you'
re willing to give say, Al Gore or Hillary Clinton the same executive supremacy you're giving George W.
Posted by: jordan at June 30, 2006 12:06 PM (vgzEN)
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Regarding the Supreme Court's jurisdiction, Scalia's dissent makes some good points, but is far from a winning argument. When a statute takes away jurisdiction in one section (1005(e)(1)), and only applies retroactivity for pending cases to *other* sections of that statute (retroactivity explicitly applied to sections 1005 (e)(2) and (e)(3) but did not mention (e)(1)), then it isn't unreasonable to believe they meant to exclude (e)(1). This is not radical interpretation. Arguable, yes. Clearly wrong, no.
On the Geneva Convention, the opinion says it only applies to Hamdan because he was not a combatant when they got him. The GC has provisions for treatment of noncombatants by signatories. The opinion is pretty clear on this, and so is Art. 3 of the GC. I also point to the fact that no judge dissented from this holding. Their dissents were basically (Scalia) that the Court didn't have jurisdiction; (Thomas) that the Court should have deferred to executive authority on whether the tribunals were necessary; and (Alito) that the tribunals were "properly constituted" under the UCMJ. *None of the judges questioned the majority's holding that Article 3 of the GC applies to Hamdan.*
Finally, your comments about the court not protecting your liberties--in a way it is right. Ultimately, guns protect our liberties. But guns can just as easily take them away. Dictatorships have men with guns. But they don't have an independent court system. Guns do not make us different. Our independent courts do.
Posted by: pcrh at June 30, 2006 12:33 PM (eCiUG)
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a clarification: "the Supreme Court... is the ultimate and unquestioned law of the land"... but only so long as they rule in ways liberals like. When they do something like Bush-v-Gore, liberals want them thrown off the bench.
which segues into a recurring theme of mine: us on the right are no different than those on the left: when we like the decision (for the right, the earlier decision on the texas redistricting, and, for the left, Hamdan), we're fine. when we don't like the decision, the court is a bunch of idiots.
Posted by: steve sturm at June 30, 2006 12:39 PM (bZSI1)
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pcrh - When a president exceeds his Constitutional authority, congress, the courts, and the electorate have recourse into correcting that behaviour.
When Congress exceeds their Constitutional authority, the courts have an opportunity to reign them in and the electorate can also have a shot at them.
When the courts exceed their Constitutional authority - who controls them and how?
As you said, "This is not radical interpretation. Arguable, yes. Clearly wrong, no."
Who gets to argue it? To whom? If the President or Congress disagrees and thinks that SCOTUS exceeded their authority, how do they perform their "checks and balances"?
Posted by: SouthernRoots at June 30, 2006 01:11 PM (jHBWL)
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That comment you quote is priceless. Typical lefty reasoning: it doesn't matter if our cities are laid waste, our soldiers killed and thousands of civilians dead, as long as we are "legally" and "morally" not to mention "politically" correct in a manner pleasing to the New York Times editorial board. Even if we're dead, we'd be "better" in some mystical way.
I mean, it'd be better for the Lefties that we lost the war rather than "win" it in some way that made us "more like them."
Posted by: El Jefe Maximo at June 30, 2006 01:21 PM (J1MfB)
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SouthernRoots: Congress can, and almost surely will, revise the statute in question to pass muster. They would have to explicitly authorize the president to convene the tribunals (the prez asserted the authority under the law and under constitutional warmaking powers, and the Court disagreed--but would have consented if the statute had been clearer). The other problem the court had was that the tribunals did not conform to courts martial or civil courts rules--for example, they repeatedly pointed to the fact that defendants had no right to be present at their own tribunals. Such differences, they argued, meant the tribunals were not "properly constituted" according to the UCMJ and the GC. But again, this can be fixed by legislation--pass a law explicitly authorizing tribunals to try the detainees, and require that the tribunals adhere to courts martial (or similar) procedures.
On your larger question--who watches the watchmen? I agree, the Court does have highest authority in one sphere--interpretation of our laws and Constitution. But this power is not absolute. Congress can rewrite the statute, and more importantly they can amend the constitution itself--probably the biggest power held by any part of government. This is what the recent flag burning issue was about--the Court has ruled that banning flag burning is counter to rights guaranteed in the Constitution. Congress wanted to amend the Constitution--the only way they could get around the Court's ruling. That is the check on the Supreme Court. Also, the president has indirect influence on the court--he appoints its members. And the Senate has some influence--they can veto the president's appointees. So though they can't contradict the Court's rulings, the do have influence, and Congress can ultimately override them with a constitutional amendment.
It's the worst system of government except for all the other ones.
Posted by: pcrh at June 30, 2006 01:33 PM (eCiUG)
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"...why the Supreme Court is anything but infallible." --CY
"We are not final because we are infallible, but we are infallible only because we are final."
--Justice Jackson
Posted by: pcrh at June 30, 2006 01:52 PM (eCiUG)
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Who watches the watchmen? The answer--we do. Extensive research suggests that the Supremes do indeed respond to the court of public opinion. Furthermore, a weak congress fails to overturn the decisions of this court the public has the ability to fire those people and hire new ones that are more in line with what they believe. Unfortunately, conservatives and liberals alike have perverted the system such that issues have been compartmentalized to fit neatly within one or the other category, making sound reasonable judgements on issues more susceptible to knee-jerk positions, or, in other words, to the ideology not their own powers of reason. In fact, those of us who choose to be realists, rather than ideologues are marginalized, even looked down upon for not picking sides. Ideological dogma,--opposite of the pragmatism that has so characterized American fortunes and governments over the past 200 years-- is far more dangerous than the courts, an inept Congress or even and over-reaching executive.
Posted by: melruk at June 30, 2006 01:57 PM (/tXOW)
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So what someone previously stated, that the SCOTUS decided, extra constitutionally, other branches of government are relevant in a war? Seems the honored men and woman in black think we can fight a war by committee. Funny, the founders didn't.
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at June 30, 2006 02:33 PM (HJFfL)
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CY - Nice. Typical, but nice. Taken out of context but at least you had the guts to link to my original comment.
I do understand how the Supreme Court works. I believe what Congress passed will be at some point determined unconstitutional as it has the right to determine what is legal and what is not, it does not have the right to undermine the constitution by striping the SCOTUS from being the final word in judicial review. (marbury vs Madison:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison). You may not agree with that but that has been the standard for quite some time. Longer than the "herald" interpretation of GC treaty.
Artice 3 Section 1 and 2 of the Constitution reads:
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court,and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold
their Offices during good Behavior, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section 2
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; to Controversies between two or more States; between a State and Citizens of
another State; between Citizens of different States; between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
I'm not a law scholar but reading those two sections would say to me the SCOTUS has authority over any court the Congress ordains and power of any case between the US and any foreign citizens or subjects.
So rather blithering on to your make-Bush-emperor base, why don't you try and provide a rationale for how they over-reached. To illustrate, look at the ruling. There was NO DISENT from any SCJ that Al-queda was protected under GC3. None. The 3 conservative judges dissented (seperately and not on the same subject so taken as a whole, only 1 discented from other the othe 8 judges in other aspects of the ruling) about other aspects of the ruling but not on that. So whining about how this is liberal issue is pure rhetoric.
Just the mere statement that the "Commander in Chief powers outweigh those powers the Court unilaterally gives itself" demonstrates that it is you that will never uderstand the concept of checks and balances put into place by our founders. The SCOTUS does not rule over the others. It simply does not bend to the whim of chest-thumping and the political scenario playing out in Congress today. Would this Congress had given Gore the same authority as it tried to give Bush. I think not. SCOTUS was designed to be governed by unelected appointees, it was almost like the founders could see the day when politicians would put special interest groups ahead of their constituents...
I never said the court was infalliable but the SCOTUS was designed to step in (see: Brown vs. Brd of Education, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_vs._Board_of_Education) when Congress didn't have the guts or the fortitude to correct injustices.
The court decision is basically restating that its authority is not defined by Congress but by the Constitution and that the president has the power to faithfully execute the Laws and make treaties, not ignore laws and treaties.
"who guards you liberties" statement is simply wrapping a "support the troops" bumper sticker slogan around ignorance. That 20 yr old if ordered to by his superiors, would gun you down in a moment. He doesn't guard your liberties, he guards your life. Ask a black man or a woman who gave them the right to vote. It wasn't a 20 year old with a gun. Ask a Japanese-American from the WWII era who took away their liberties, it still wasn't a 20 year old with a gun.
Your final argument is simply not worth responding too. If the law is just paper, go try anarchy instead...
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 02:48 PM (IHMpz)
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Matt a - You missed a portion of Article III Section 2: [2] In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
[3] The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
The Constitution clearly sets up SCOTUS, but Congress defines the boundries.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at June 30, 2006 06:23 PM (jHBWL)
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The Military trials were only a proposed procedure to get rid of some of the nasties at Gitmo. It was never used so what beef does the left wing have? None. As soon as we're attacked again we'll have a beef with the lefties and they'll pay dearly for every death and injury. The silent majority (republicans) will stand up and be heard, if it requires extreme violence, so be it.
The simple solution to to the SCOTUS and Gitmo problem is to transfer 100 bad a** terrorist to each of their (five traitors) home towns for imprisonment and trial. Let their local population handle it, the locals provide the security, judges, and they serve on the juries. Not one of the five members that made this ruling would ever dare return home, that is if they had a town to return to after the terrorists from CAIR got done with them.
Posted by: Scrapiron at June 30, 2006 07:02 PM (Ffvoi)
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Southern Root - Thanks for the addedum. I was rushing out the door and didn't have time to research original vs appellate jurisdiction but here's a definition:
APPELLATE JURISDICTION. The jurisdiction which a superior court has to bear appeals of causes which have been tried in inferior courts. It differs from original jurisdiction, which is the power to entertain suits instituted in the first instance.
So what does exceptions and regulations mean? Per Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Original_and_appellate_jurisdiction) it means that Congress can refine the process by which the appeals can raise through the inferior courts but it does not have the power to undermine the original jurisdiction responsibility of SCOTUS. Pretty cut and clear that Congress can't "cut out" (without a constitutional amendment) the Supreme Court from seeing any appeal such as this case.
If anything, that section alone makes the law past by congress more likely to be overturned at some point.
The other part of section 2 highlighted, where trials take place, I'm not aware of anyone challenging. Congress can pass a law saying that that all terrorist trials will be held at Gitmo, makes sense to me.
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 10:58 PM (qnzM6)
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If the law is just paper, go try anarchy instead...
Anyone who has won a judgment in court knows the law is indeed just paper. All the court does is give you the right to TRY to collect what you're owed. Getting it may take years or it may never actually happen.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at July 01, 2006 04:35 AM (JuWpl)
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Good post. I've linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2006/07/re-further-thoughts-on-hamdan.html
Posted by: Consul-At-Arms at July 01, 2006 06:48 PM (kxNCe)
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The statement by pcrh that it was unquestioned by the dissenters that the Geneva Convention applies to al-Qaeda is wrong. Given the grounds of the dissents by Justices Thomas, Scalia and Alito, those justicesa did not decide the specific question, which is really no question at all.
The Supreme Court majority was just dead wrong to resort to the fiction of so-called international customary law to interpret the Geneva Convention in accordance with a proposed Protocol to the Geneva Convention that in 1987 then President Ronald Reagan recommended to the Senate not be adopted by the United States (there is no answer to the Gipper's explanation on this one) and that the Senate did not adopt, not then and not since. The democratically elected branches of the U.S. Government thus had made a decision as to the Geneva Convention that the Supreme Court had no business ignoring, just as the Supreme Court had no business ignoring the act of Congress stripping the Supreme Court of jurisdiction in the Hamden case.
The Supreme Court majority decision in Hamden really is an illicit, ill-conceived and illegitimate power grab that should be denounced as such. Sorry, Jordan, but the response should not be and cannot be well, the Supreme Court tells us what the law is. I recommend to you all a book by the Dean of Stanford Law School Larry Kramer, "The People Themselves." The original view of the matter, one espoused by none other than Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, is that the Congress and the President have a co-equal responsibility of constitutional interpretation because the people are sovereign, not the justices of the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court has made some bad mistakes in its history. Certainly, Dredd Scott and Plessy v. Ferguson are examples. What the Supreme Court majority did in Hamden was badly mistaken. At every turn, the Supreme Court's Hamden decision should be so treated.
Posted by: Phil Byler at July 02, 2006 09:53 PM (/kIDl)
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Purple - Criminal law and civil law are 2 different beasts. Winning a judgement and being convicted of something are 2 different things.
I agree that Congress and the Executive branch are both co-equal interpreters of the constitution.
IMO, SCOTUS did not make a power move here. Congress did by trying to take away judicial power from SCOTUS. The President did by establishing his own trial procedure. As per all the talk shows this Sunday has suggested, if the President comes to Congress and asks for the tribunals, Congress will set them up. SCOTUS can and will be the final appeal on the tribunals will apply law. That is how the constitution works.
Posted by: matt a at July 02, 2006 10:39 PM (qnzM6)
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>>The statement by pcrh that it was unquestioned by the dissenters that the Geneva Convention applies to al-Qaeda is wrong. Given the grounds of the dissents by Justices Thomas, Scalia and Alito, those justicesa did not decide the specific question, which is really no question at all.
Not sure what Mr. Byler means here. The justices are free to dissent on any issue they see fit. None of the dissenters brought up the majority's statements that Art. 3 of the GC applied to Hamdan. That's a fairly important part of the case, and if they disagreed, one would think they would have mentioned it in their dissents. To assume that their silence on the issue indicates *disagreement* is hard for me to accept.
Posted by: pcrh at July 03, 2006 09:37 AM (eCiUG)
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Tour De Turtle Bay
Isn't it an almost perfect metaphor?
American power dominates for years over European interests, and is then accused of using underhanded nefarious means to achieve the pinnacle of success. We find out later that it was the Americans won because of our unmatched work ethic, while the Europeans who cried that we were cheating, were actually guilty themselves the entire time.
Sounds a bit like the
Oil for Food Scandal, doesn"t it?
Guess again:
France — Favorites Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso and other cyclists were barred Friday from the Tour de France in the biggest doping scandal to hit cycling in years.
The decision to prevent Ullrich, Basso and others from racing threw the sport's premier race into upheaval the day before it begins.
Tour director Christian Prudhomme said the organizers' determination to fight doping was "total."
"The enemy is not cycling, the enemy is doping," he said.
Doping of course, is what seven-time American Tour De France Winner Lance Armstrong has repeatedly been accused of, and a charge he has repeatedly denied. Every time he has been vindicated, the latest time just
four days ago.
Americans win, and continue to win, through unrelenting work, while soft, decadent western Europeans break the rules and still continue to come up short.
Someone please tell me why American liberals (John Kerry would be a prime example) so aspire to be like these people. Is cheating to lose that much fun?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:43 AM
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C-Yank, .."American liberals, (John Kerry would be a prime example)" Scott Armstrong would be another example..from your fellow traveler over at Voluntarilyconservative...
Lance Armstrong beats down the Alps
To no one's surprise, Lance Armstrong claimed the yellow jersey following today's stage, the first in the Alps. Bill Hobbs, who has been following the Tour on a stage-by-stage basis, has today's latest.
Lance is obviously a great story, but he perplexes me. Victories over cancer, the world's toughest bike race, and peers that have sought to disparage his reputation by linking him to drug use should make a man thankful for his wonderful life. Lance is thankful, but only to himself. If any man should recognize the divine intervention in his life, it is Lance Armstrong. Yet he remains to this day an atheist. He believes in "I"dolotry - as in "I can do this," "I am powerful enough to do that," and "I can save myself." It baffles me that one of God's most gifted creatures can't even acknowledge that He exists.
I suppose I shouldn't be so naive. Armstrong is very much anti-Second Amendment, pro-abortion, and against the liberation of Iraq. Heck, he dates someone who is radically to the Left in Sheryl Crow (who once showed remarkable maturity when she told a stunned group of 13-year-old girls, "If you want to turn on your boyfriend, get naked and strap on an accordion"), which is a far cry from his ex-wife (you know, the one who comforted him through cancer, bore his beautiful children, and assisted his return to cycling), who is a devout Catholic. I pray that Lance realizes that the gold crucifix that hangs around his neck isn't just a piece of jewelry, and that the gifts he is blessed with don't come from human sources. BB-Idaho
Posted by: Bob Bjerke at July 04, 2006 10:25 PM (pQmWi)
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June 29, 2006
Defenders of Oppressors
Via U.S. Newswire:
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement today following the United States Supreme Court decision that trying Guantanamo detainees before military commissions violates U.S. law and the Geneva Conventions:
"Today's Supreme Court decision reaffirms the American ideal that all are entitled to the basic guarantees of our justice system. This is a triumph for the rule of law.
"The rights of due process are among our most cherished liberties, and today's decision is a rebuke of the Bush Administration's detainee policies and a reminder of our responsibility to protect both the American people and our Constitutional rights. We cannot allow the values on which our country was founded to become a casualty in the war on terrorism."
Translates
PunditGuy (via
Hot Air):
'If you plan terrorist attacks against America, if you kill Americans in a successful terrorist attack, if you kill our troops in Iraq or on any battlefield, we, the Democratic Party, will defend your right to be defended.'
If terrorists maim and murder innocents by the thousands, anywhere on earth, the Democratic Party will rush to defend their rights under American law.
White flag. Yellow back. Brown pants.
Your Democratic Party.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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CY, your comments tonight are a stretch and a little over the top...anyone, no matter what the crime, is entitled to a fair and may I say speedy trial. In addition, the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I don't see how any true American disputes these very basic and what I consider "conservative American" standards. As I have said before, the double standards have no boundaries with the Bush Administration. Not saying we have our greatest humanitarians down in Guatanomo Bay, but you cannot detain somebody with no charges, and hold them for years at a time with no trial! This is OK with the right wingers? Yes, it seems like we should let things slide, cut a corner here, and do this and that to "gett'r done" in a time of war, a voluntary war I might add. But, what happens when an unfavorable leader or party (in your case, the dems), takes office and decides to continue these substandard methods when it doesn't suit your cause anymore? There is a line, and our wise forefathers drew it long ago. I think it is people who agree with me who are the "true" conservatives....help your fellow man, spend wisely, follow the constitution even when it is not "convenient". Character under fire is defined by following standards when they are not always easy to swallow (i.e. giving Osama Bin Laden a trial. that is if we ever catch him). It is what separates us from them. I think "cowboy cool" is going out of style. We will see in November.
Posted by: Johnny at June 29, 2006 06:38 PM (Vtwo9)
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Corn fed. Inbred. Brain dead. Your Republican party.
Posted by: Lint at June 29, 2006 06:44 PM (1gQpi)
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”…anyone, no matter what the crime, is entitled to a fair and may I say speedy trial.”
When a crime – as in breaking our laws – is concerned, you’re correct. However, under the GC we are entitled to detain captured enemy combatants as POWs for the duration of hostilities. There is no requirement to try them under a military tribunal or certainly no requirement to try them under our civil laws. If you advocate such absurdity, would you also prescribe our soldiers Miranda-izing them as well? Shall we be required to gather physical evident on the battlefield in order to substantiate and indictment? Shall we also convene a grand jury to deliver an indictment? The answer is, “No!” because our civil laws do not apply to war and warfare.
”In addition, the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.”
Does that mean that enemy combatants captured on the battlefield would be eligible to post bail? Wow, you give the term “bleeding heart liberal” a whole new meaning. Fortunately, what you advocate is not part of the SCOTUS ruling. However, I’d love to see you on the front lines advocating the requirement to Miranda-ize captured terrorists. Lots of luck!
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 29, 2006 08:07 PM (owAN1)
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Soldier - Nice perversion there. Ignore the facts and create hyperbole out there. This guy Hamdan was Osama's driver, not the 20th hijacker or some mastermind strategist. He HAS been accused of a crime "conspiring against U.S. citizens" from 96-01. He IS on trial. The SCOTUS ruling says that he has civil liberties afforded to him by the constitution. The kangeroo court the President tried to set up would have in effect made a mockery of the entire judicial system. Secret evidence the defendent isn't allowed to see, witnesses the defense can't cross-examine, etc.
I think the SCOTUS did the right thing and is in effect doing what the framers intended. History has shown us what happens when the US govt acts from emotion and tries to "safeguard" us from some foreign "menace" by restricting civil liberties (The McCarthy hearings or Japanese internment camps for examples). Its the SCOTUS's responsibility (per Stephen's own words) "in both peace and war, to preserve the constitutional safeguards of civil liberty". I think that SCOTUS took a step back and viewed this from a point of presedent. The US can't simply point to an individual's group affiliation and say that our current legal standards for humane treatment of individuals don't apply. Take Al-Queda out of the equation. What if President declared that Doctors without Borders was a terrorist group. Could he arrest US citizens and citizens from other countries (France, Germany, etc) and say their group affiliation means we can ignore GC and "humanely" torture them and hold them indefinitely? The answer you hear back is, "Well, if they are blowing up babies, sure!" But the key word is IF and that can't be determined without a fair trial. No, Al-queda did not sign the GC and neither did DWB but every individual within both organizations are citizens of some country, most of which probably did sign the GC (not sure about who's on the list).
To your point, soldiers shouldn't be merandizing anyone on the battlefield, but the executive branch of the govt is also not judge, jury and executioner.
The ironic thing is that Sadam Hussein is on trial for the same thing right now the Bush wants to do (waiting for the love on that). A group of people tried to asassinate Sadam and he ran a bunch of people that he thought (based on intel to be sure or maybe they just drove one of the guys around who did try to asissinate him, who knows)through a "legal" court and had them convicted and then executed (At Sadam's trial, one of the co-defendants is the trial judge who's defense is he was only following the rule of law). He's getting a better trial over in Iraq, from the country who's citizens he "allegedly" slaughtered and is now struggling to put a democracy in place, then we, the leaders of democracy in the free world are providing those that "conspired" against us. Sad.
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 06:52 AM (IHMpz)
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Lint? As in navel lint. Johnny, it's people like you that endangers our way of life. Those detainees are POW's not pickpockets or people who drive off without paying for their gasoline. They were caught in the act of trying to kill our soldiers on a battlefield. Whether you agree or not, U.S. Law does not apply to them. Those people down there would kill you me and everyone in this country if they could. GET IT!!! When are we as a nation going to see the insanity of trying to apply our law's to people who could care less about it? So we can feel good about ourselves, that we tried to show the world what our country is all about. Thats a crock, there are more people trying to immigrate to this country than any other country in the world. It's obvious they know that we have a better way of life and more freedoms than anywhere else. Johnny we don't live in a nirvana world. so, you need to grow up. The ones that have been released some of them were caught or killed on the battlefield again. Not all rightwingers as you like to refer to us are redneck getrdone types. Most are people who worked for our education are self starters and can appreciate the value of hardwork, not sit on our butts and whine because the world isn't fair. Oh BTW we need to give UBL a dirt nap not a trial.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at June 30, 2006 06:53 AM (JSetw)
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Johnny, "cowboy cool" is the only thing keeping our butts from being blown up. The jihadist IS the weapon; they will kill and maim with whatever they can get their hands on, and have proved it more times than I can count. If you think treating them with due process will make them kind and considerate global citizens, you are sadly mistaken.You tell them to "Give Peace a Chance"!
Posted by: Tom TB at June 30, 2006 07:16 AM (wZLWV)
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"The SCOTUS ruling says that he has civil liberties afforded to him by the constitution."
Now who is making things up? SCOTUS merely said get it right on who commissions the tribunal that tries these terrorists. SCOTUS did not say terrorists have civil liberties under our constitution, because our constitution does not apply to these people. If that were the case, the President would be fully justified in adopting the stance of a former president; you've made your ruling, now try to enforce it.
Matt your are an absolute idiot if you believe these people wouldn't behead you in a New York Minute given the opportunity. And you want to give them access to our civil court system? Grow up; this is a real war we are engaged in. They deserve a day before a military tribunal and absolutely nothing more. They are not citizens - they do not have our rights.
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 30, 2006 08:42 AM (X2tAw)
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FP - We apply our nation's law to others because we are a civilized nation and are the recognized leader of the civilized world. Without law to govern our actions, we are no better than the terrorist who's objective is to destroy our way of life. We lead by example. If we can't treat those captured humanely and civilly, then the terrorist has proved that our ideals and way of life are a fraud. More concretely, why should anyone respect an American's rights if there is no guarantee that we will respect their citizens' rights?
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 08:46 AM (IHMpz)
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OS - Thanks for demonstrating the terrorist's point by showing how to have a civilized debate. I would suspect that any declared enemy of the US would try to kill me if given the opportunity. Been around since the inception of the US, doesn't mean we need to lower ourselves to their level.
I did summarize what I thought the SCOTUS did based on what Justice Stephens wrote in his brief which I read. If the constitution didn't apply to them, the SCOTUS would have never made a ruling as their responsibility is interpreting laws based on the constitution. Since they did, its pretty obvious they feel the constitution does apply to them. My interpretation. Not that its legally binding, just my interpretation.
If the President wants to abdicate his responsibility to enforce the laws (or ignore them by declaring signing statements), then he shouldn't have ran for office. He didn't seem to have a problem with SCOTUS when they made up law to get him into office.
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 09:21 AM (IHMpz)
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Matt, you almost made a point. The problem is that SCOTUS DID make a ruling when they had no grounds to.
Terrorists don't fall under our Constitution because they arent U.S. Citizens. (Before you go there, our homegrown ones DO go through our legal process)
Geneva convention states clearly for those that signed the Convention (Article 1).
But lets say for the sake of argument (that you like to do) we let that pass.
They aren't uniformed, Most aren't from the 'Occupied' country, there are no diplomatic ties because, well, they're terrorists and aren't recognized as a government, you get the idea.
Lets pretend they pass all that, now go to article 5 (Geneva convention) if they committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
Military tribuanl is competent, has been for years.
So tell me Matt, exactly where in the Geneva Conventions do terrorists fall under? I can't find it and just read it.
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 30, 2006 10:56 AM (JYeBJ)
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Oh absolutely right CY. I mean, Al Q can murder thousands on 9/11... and if necessary thousands more, all so the little terrorist darlings, who aren't citizens; who are not soldiers of any army, or any legitimate government -- can have their "civil rights."
Posted by: El Jefe Maximo at June 30, 2006 01:27 PM (J1MfB)
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Navy - In your readings, where and when does it say that the President is allowed to ignore the Constitution? I don't remember seeing that.
I can see 2 arguments that need to be made:
1. Where does it say that the Constitution only applies to US Citizens? Foreign nationals have the same rights as Americans here if they are arrested here. They pay taxes. They contribute to SS (even though they can't collect it). They can own property, marry, work a job, etc. They can even serve in the millitary. If they get arrested, they are araigned, grand jury can indite, trials can convict. Every illegal immigrant caught here gets his/her opportunity in court to prove he/she should be here. They aren't yanked half way around the world and held indefinitely or convicted without a fair trial. I don't remember a police officer asking if the crook he caught is American before reading his rights to him.
2. Until the constitution is amended, SCOTUS did what it was supposed to do which is rule on the merits of a case in front of it. Its called checks and balances. The President overstepped his constitutional authority by assuming he could ignore treaties and the rule of law during "war" time. A legal case was made to decide it. Its not the first time this has happened (war time presidents deciding to ignore the law. Lincoln tried to set aside Habeus Corpus and was rebuffed eventually) and each time, SCOTUS has brought the president back from the brink of becoming an emperor rather than the President.
He wants tribunals, the Congress must authorize it. Its the way the govt is supposed to work.
Posted by: matt a at June 30, 2006 01:43 PM (IHMpz)
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matt a,
The ruling basically states that we cannot hold tribunals for these POWs. It also throws it right back into Congress's lap to create a new law on how they will handle terrorist POWs. I have heard that a quick poll of Congress shows that the majority supports new legislation. I suspect you will lose on that too.
There is another, maybe more serious problem though. The original DTA 2005 said that no court had the right to hear habeus petitions from any Gitmo prisoner. Congress, under equal and separate powers, has the right to do that. They did. The SCOTUS apparently overstepped their bounds that were limited by Congress. Now let's hear your argument about that as compared with the President's NSA TSP policy. Can't have it both ways pal.
Posted by: Specter at June 30, 2006 10:18 PM (ybfXM)
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Matt.
How can you stretch the U.S. Constitution to other countries????
The foreign workers over here are guarenteed some protections under the Constitution and U.S. laws, not in other countries.
The 'Treaty' the President was following was the Geneva convention. It's been pointed out time and again to you how it is for Uniformed militants.
If you made an argument that the 'Detainees' (terrorists) should be put on trial in the countries that they were captured in, I would whole heartedly agree with you.
Other countries are not afforded U.S. Constitution Protections.
Posted by: Retired Navy at July 03, 2006 05:18 AM (y67bA)
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Bush Loses Hamdan, SCOTUS Loses Its Mind
According to the Associated Press:
The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that President Bush overstepped his authority in ordering military war crimes trials for Guantanamo Bay detainees.
The ruling, a rebuke to the administration and its aggressive anti-terror policies, was written by Justice John Paul Stevens, who said the proposed trials were illegal under U.S. law and international Geneva conventions.
The case focused on Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni who worked as a bodyguard and driver for Osama bin Laden. Hamdan, 36, has spent four years in the U.S. prison in Cuba. He faces a single count of conspiring against U.S. citizens from 1996 to November 2001.
I'm familiar with a saying that goes, “if you can keep your head, while everyone around you is losing theirs, then clearly, you don't understand the situation.”
When it comes to
Hamdan, that is certainly the case for me.
Quite frankly, I've never been sure about the military tribunal route for terrorism suspects captured overseas. To me it either makes sense to try them as criminals in a federal court, hold them until hostilities were over (if we deem the Geneva Conventions apply), or execute them like rabid dogs (if we deem the Geneva Conventions don't apply). The tribunal route just seemed odd to my sensibilities.
Over at
Hot Air, Allah
seems confused:
So if they try him, they have to take him to federal court — but they don't have to try him? What?
He also notes this from
SCOTUSBlog:
As I predicted below, the Court held that Congress had, by statute, required that the commissions comply with the laws of war -- and held further that these commissions do not (for various reasons).
More importantly, the Court held that Common Article 3 of Geneva aplies as a matter of treaty obligation to the conflict against Al Qaeda. That is the HUGE part of today's ruling. The commissions are the least of it. This basically resolves the debate about interrogation techniques, because Common Article 3 provides that detained persons "shall in all circumstances be treated humanely," and that "[t]o this end," certain specified acts "are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever"—including "cruel treatment and torture," and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." This standard, not limited to the restrictions of the due process clause, is much more restrictive than even the McCain Amendment. See my further discussion here.
This almost certainly means that the CIA's interrogation regime is unlawful, and indeed, that many techniques the Administation has been using, such as waterboarding and hypothermia (and others) violate the War Crimes Act (because violations of Common Article 3 are deemed war crimes).
If I'm right about this, it's enormously significant.
Quite frankly, if SCOTUSBlog is correct in that SCOTUS is saying the Geneva Conventions apply to non-state terrorist entities, then the court is out of it's ever-lovin' mind.
What is then to keep them from applying the Conventions to other non-state groups? Can drug cartels now claim to be protected under Geneva? How about serial killers?
The message to the soldier in the field seems clear: Take no prisoners, and collect whatever intel you can gather off the bodies.
Great job, Stevens. I think it's time you retire.
Update: Stop the ACLU has a roundup.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"This almost certainly means that the CIA's interrogation regime is unlawful, and indeed, that many techniques the Administation has been using, such as waterboarding and hypothermia"
False. The CIA are not part of the US Armed Forces. The UCMJ and all relevant international treaties regarding the behavior of armed forces do not apply to them.
And what I got from the ruling this morning (I was on duty when the news broke) was that they could be tried by the military, but would have to be granted all rights and priveleges customary to a military trial, i.e. a court-martial, complete with judge, jury, and a defense lawyer. I'm perfectly ok with this and I think that CNN touting the ruling as "a huge defeat for the administration" is warped.
Posted by: Dawnfire82 at June 29, 2006 11:14 AM (RvTAf)
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To paraphrase President Andrew Jackson, Justice John Paul Stevens has made his decision, now let him enforce it.
Posted by: SicSemperTyrannus at June 29, 2006 11:41 AM (lNB+R)
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CY,
"What is then to keep them from applying the Conventions to other non-state groups? Can drug cartels now claim to be protected under Geneva? How about serial killers?"
We don't hold members of drug cartels in offshore prisons. We try them, convict them and put them in jail. Same for serial killers. Not so for our guests at Gitmo. This is about the separation of powers between the three branches of government.
Posted by: jordan at June 29, 2006 01:24 PM (vgzEN)
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I agree with CY. There is no reason why we, the United States of America, the leader of the FREE world, should have a higher standard of humane treatment when it comes to prisoners then terrorist groups and drug cartels. Lowest common denominator and all that...Amazing how fragile our resolution to our own standards becomes when faced with someone who doesn't hold those same standards in regard and our eagerness to adopt their lower ones.
Posted by: matt a at June 29, 2006 02:57 PM (IHMpz)
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This ruling is unconstitutional! For all intents and purposes, the Supreme
Court has entered the US into a treaty with a foreign, non-governmental entity.
The constitution expressly gives this authority to the President and congress.
Also this sets up a constitutional crisis because congress
passed the Detainee Treatment act which expressly
said that no court, justice or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider
`(1) an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the Department of Defense at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; or
`(2) any other action against the United States or its agents relating to any aspect of the detention by the Department of Defense of an alien at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, who--
`(A) is currently in military custody; or
`(B) has been determined by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in accordance with the procedures set forth in section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant.'
I believe the president should follow the actions of Andrew Jackson and tell
Justice Stevens to stick it were the sun don’t shine.
Posted by: Radical Centrist at June 29, 2006 03:04 PM (iWRYt)
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Great article, Bob.
Your trackbacks hate me. Called me a fruitcake

Posted by: William Teach at June 29, 2006 05:43 PM (doAuV)
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I think Ed Morrissey (Captain's Quarters) hit on something here when he said, "SCOTUS seems to argue that we must violate the Geneva Conventions in order to uphold them."
Posted by: Jim at June 29, 2006 06:52 PM (YkmII)
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So it's a matter of 'treaty obligation'. Could someone refresh my memory? When exactly did Al Qaeda sign a treaty? Did they sign it with us? Who signed it? I guess the only response to this is to order the military to shoot any and all enemy combatants who fail to wear an identifiable enemy uniform. That ought to clear out Gitmo, right quick. Geneva Convention says we can do it; USSC says we have to. Works for me.
Posted by: Tim at June 29, 2006 07:42 PM (WiHUE)
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Can drug cartels now claim to be protected under Geneva? How about serial killers?
This resolves the debate. You are, in fact, that stupid.
Posted by: jpe at June 29, 2006 11:28 PM (qWiph)
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Who's the stupid one, the one that writes blatent sarcasm or the one that runs with it that can't tell?
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 30, 2006 07:18 AM (elhVA)
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WMD fired at Israel...Or Not?
Or so a Palestinian militant group claims (via Drudge):
A spokesman for gunmen in the Gaza Strip said they had fired a rocket tipped with a chemical warhead at Israel early on Thursday.
The Israeli army had no immediate comment on the claim by the spokesman from the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement.
The group had recently claimed to possess about 20 biological warheads for the makeshift rockets commonly fired from Gaza at Israeli towns. This was the first time the group had claimed firing such a rocket.
"The al-Aqsa Brigades have fired one rocket with a chemical warhead" at southern Israel, Abu Qusai, a spokesman for the group, said in Gaza.
An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army had not detected that any such rocket was fired, nor was there any report of such a weapon hitting Israel.
Silly al-Reuters reporters. They weren't supposed to release that story until
tomorrow.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:13 AM
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June 28, 2006
Resurrecting Ghosts
"Mothball Fleet."
Just hearing those words conjures up images of worn down, obsolete rusty freighters, decrepit warships, and sepia-tone pictures of half-sunken Liberty ships whose glory days have long since past.
They are the abandoned hulks and hulls no longer wanted or needed, destined for an ignoble end at the bottom of the sea after being used as a naval target, or at the end of a scrapyard's cutting torch.
But what if some of these grizzled veterans of wars past still had a story left to tell? What if some of these salt-flecked graybeards of the fleet still have a purpose, and can be called forth once more?
Finding that purpose is the calling of Ward Brewer, CEO of a little-known and unheralded non-profit Beauchamp Tower Corporation (BTC). Operation Enduring Service, the program started to press these aging ships back into service, began with a glance at a picture on a wall. As the Operation Enduring Service web site
explains:
A 1944 Will Cressy lithograph of the USS Orion, which hung on James Gulley's living room wall since he returned from the war, now hangs on his grandson's office wall. In April of 2002, while working on his company's National Emergency Urban Interface Program, a momentary glance at that picture drew Ward's attention.
Taking a break from working on the company's emergency response program, Ward began searching for the USS Orion on the Internet to find out more about her. Several sites had pictures and brief histories of the USS Orion as well as other Fulton Class Submarine Tenders. There was one site, however, that would dramatically change future events. The USS Torsk Volunteers had been aboard the USS Orion in order to obtain various parts that were needed for the continued restoration of their submarine. While searching the ship, the "Torsk Bandits" as they called themselves, took numerous pictures of the USS Orion. It was these pictures that caught Ward Brewer's eye.
The USS Orion was built like a small city, carrying with her everything she could possibly need to perform her mission. It was all there, Machine Shops, Foundry, Electronics, Utilities, Berthing, Galleys, etc. This incredible concentration of capabilities made the USS Orion and her Fulton Class sister ships efficient, effective, and one of the most versatile assets in the United States Navy. It was the versatility and unique assets of these ships that resulted in Ward Brewer considering a project design so bold and unusual that few would believe it was even possible.
Brewer's general concept was simple; save these aging ships from the scrapyard, and refit them with the most modern technologies this generation can bring to bear to create a small fleet of ultra-capable disaster response and recovery ships.
The
Fulton-class of Submarine Tenders was Brewer's first choice for this mission, but as more modern ships began to retire, the
Mars-class Combat Stores Ship became the most logical choice to be refitted as the very first purpose-built Fast Attack Disaster Response Ships.
The former USNS
San Diego may be the very first of this new breed of ships.
Outfitted with an emergency response center, an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) operations center and a land/sea/air communications center than can coordinate across military, law enforcement and civilian radio frequencies, this ship will be the coordinating hub of disaster response in coming hurricane seasons, working with FEMA, the Coast Guard, Salvation Army and other organizations that response to the worse storms Mother Nature can throw at Gulf and East Coast states.
Able to provide food, water, fuel and emergency supplies to an area measuring of thousands of square miles, these ships will be able to do what no agency in any country has ever been capable of doing.
The problem, of course, is securing these aging vessels and finding a way to finance their refitting and return to duty.
Operation Enduring Service has long been pushing the U.S. Maritime Administration (MARAD) to release a substantial number of ships to Beauchamp Tower Corporation from the James River and Suisun Bay National Defense Reserve Fleets.

National Defense Reserve Fleet, Suisian Bay, California

National Defense Reserve Fleet, James River, Fort Eustis, Virginia.
Ships of historical significance—particularly World War II-era ships—would be brought back to period standards and used as museum ships, providing future generations insights into how the Greatest Generation fought to preserve this nation's freedoms. A handful of vessels such as the USNS San Diego would be refitted for emergency response.
A substantial part of the operation—both museum ships and modernized disaster response vessels—would be financed by selling the salvage and scrapping rights to other vessels too far gone to be of further use except for as recycled raw materials. The total cost of this program to taxpayers?
Not one dime.
The salvage and scrapping of those vessels beyond their useful days will partially finance both the historical and rescue operations, with the rest of the costs being absorbed by the deep pockets of major corporate donors already committed to Beauchamp Tower Corporation.
As fantastic as it sounds, the operation will actually
save the American taxpayer tens of millions of dollars that the Maritime Administration has been paying to companies across the Atlantic to tow away and dispose of ships as American shipyards want for work.
* * *
Long-time readers of this site know that I've been trying to do my small part to help make Operation Enduring Service a reality, as I've been writing posts advocating readers to help pressure Congressmen and Senators for support about it off and on since
early November of last year.
Back in March I had something of an idea, an alternative to harassing Congressmen, and being in near daily contact with Brewer (who I have since come to regard as a long-distance friend) I passed that idea along. I then more or less stopped my public advocacy for this project, even as that idea went to the right people and things began to get a bit more interesting (to put it mildly) behind the scenes.
It pains me as a blogger to sit on a good idea, but I've done just that thus far. If things go as planned, I should be able to break that silence
very, very soon.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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It would be nice to see them used for something like that instead of a breakwater.
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 28, 2006 01:23 PM (lNB+R)
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With the sinking of all the Sprunace Class DD's, (last week the Stump & the Comte De Grasse) which were built in the mid 70's to early 80's, we no longer have a fleet reserve. Not to mention my first command CVA-66 USS America.
Posted by: Tim at June 28, 2006 05:07 PM (INshc)
Posted by: Johnny at June 28, 2006 07:43 PM (Vtwo9)
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In case anyone is interested, another reported Saddam official has been found to be working with al Qaeda in Iraq.
Details here http://markeichenlaub.blogspot.com/2006/06/haitham-al-badri.html
Posted by: Mark Eichenlaub at June 28, 2006 08:18 PM (j+tr0)
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That's a bit of a bummer to hear about the Spruance DDs being used for target practice. I was a Plankowner on the Comte de Grasse. We put a lot of hard work and hours into that ship. Sad to hear about her going to Davy Jones Locker.
Posted by: JM at June 29, 2006 12:33 AM (u6RaE)
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My father served on DD-425 USS Madison, and DD-681 USS Hopewell in both theaters in WWII. I don't know what became of the Madison, the Hopewell was used as a target in '72. I am living testament to American ship building; he survived to meet my mother!
Posted by: Tom TB at June 29, 2006 05:56 AM (y6n8O)
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June 27, 2006
A Few Fries Short of a Happy Meal
Poor Glenn Greenwald. It seems that he has once and for all stepped away from the land of the credible, and his latest missive on reaction to the New York Times banking story blowback makes that painfully obvious:
Any doubts about whether the Bush administration intends to imprison unfriendly journalists (defined as "journalists who fail to obey the Bush administration's orders about what to publish") were completely dispelled this weekend. As I have noted many times before, one of the most significant dangers our country faces is the all-out war now being waged on our nation's media -- and thereby on the First Amendment's guarantee of a free press -- by the Bush administration and its supporters, who are furious that the media continues to expose controversial government policies and thereby subject them to democratic debate. After the unlimited outpouring of venomous attacks on the Times this weekend, I believe these attacks on our free press have become the country's most pressing political issue.
Any doubts have been dispelled, eh, Glenn? By this, I would be so bold as to infer that you have concrete proof of your allegation that the President has the intention to thrown journalists in jail. Certainly, you would not be so bold as to make such a wild accusation without so much as a shred of proof. Why, such a strong claim, without any evidentiary support whatsoever, would be absolutely
Leopoldian.
Sadly, the condition seems degenerative:
Documenting the violent rhetoric and truly extremist calls for imprisonment against the Times is unnecessary for anyone paying even minimal attention the last few days. On every cable news show, pundits and even journalists talked openly about whether the editors and reporters of the Times were traitors deserving criminal punishment. The Weekly Standard, always a bellwether of Bush administration thinking, is now actively crusading for criminal prosecution against the Times. And dark insinuations that the Times ought to be physically attacked are no longer the exclusive province of best-selling right-wing author Ann Coulter, but -- as Hume's Ghost recently documented -- are now commonly expressed sentiments among all sorts of "mainstream" Bush supporters. Bush supporters are now engaged in all-out, unlimited warfare against journalists who are hostile to the administration and who fail to adhere to the orders of the Commander-in-Chief about what to print.
"All-out, unlimited warfare against journalists..." Well, that would certainly explain why the CNN Building in downtown Atlanta was just leveled by Tomahawk cruise missiles, and why Navy SEAL 13.5 (Documents and Records) are presently engaged in a fierce, close-quarters battle against the
Times editorial staff in the brie cooler.
Oh wait...
none of that is happening.
Greenwald's article presumably continues after that point, but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would care.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
The brie cooler. Nice one.
Posted by: see-dubya at June 27, 2006 04:10 PM (sF5cK)
2
Quit worrying about what the press did. Lock up the reporters till they divulge the leaks then excute them.
Posted by: David Caskey at June 27, 2006 04:49 PM (rpr/1)
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The copius tears I shed for the poor widdle Times people should be proof enough that I am not at war with the media. Now, where did I put that shotgun and rope?
Posted by: MCPO Airdale at June 27, 2006 05:31 PM (3nKvy)
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The unauthorized disclosure of classified information bears consequences. If anyone is interested this is the US Code that applies.
Title 18, United States Code Section 798. Disclosure of classified information
(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully ommunicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information--
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government;
Shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
For a little more information check out: This Link
CY, I apologize for that shameless plug, but there really is some good info over there (I know the author).
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 27, 2006 05:50 PM (owAN1)
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The link failed, so cut and paste the following:
http://myrepublicanblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/security-classification-long-and-short.html
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 27, 2006 05:52 PM (owAN1)
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As usual, the lefties revel in their delusions. I can't comprehend how people who live such safe, secure, and comfortable lives can be so utterly cynical and paranoid.
Posted by: Zhombre at June 27, 2006 06:23 PM (sdnSs)
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None of those that are attempting to excuse the NYT actions have come up with a credible reason why anyone should trust the NYT editorial board when it determines to run a story over an Administration that claims that running such a story would result in serious and ongoing harm to national security.
So, where we stand right now has the NYT continuing to run stories from leakers who are providing the paper with classified information, an Administration that's trying to stop leakers, and a paper that refuses to work with the Administration.
There's a story in there somewhere.
Oh yes - it's called newspapers refusing to give up the names of those providing leaks of classified information. The failure to assist in any such investigation should result in criminal action against the editors as to contempt.
The papers are playing high stakes poker, thinking that they can pull another Pentagon Papers case out of their hats, and further expand their power against any Administration.
And yet I have some serious concerns about trying papers for treason or other criminal charges stemming from the leaks. Do we really want to turn what is already a bad relationship into a poisonous one? Does that actually help anyone, least of all this and future Presidents to communicate messages, deal with any and every crisis, etc.
But Instapundit says it so much better than I.
Posted by: lawhawk at June 27, 2006 09:00 PM (nW448)
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I love it when the Bush administration gets so bent out of shape when the Times exposes their "questionable/grey area" programs. Yes...when you say "Times", you know it came from New York, city that is.... Black gold,Texas tea is responsible for this big Al-Qaeda boogieman debacle! As painful as it is for all my sexless friends, this is what makes our country great, the checks and balances of a free America. Remember...if the Bush administration begins to hunt down journalist for leaking sensitive information, they better start at Pennsylvania Ave first. The irony is so thick and the double standards so frequent, it is sometimes seems like a joke. As a spineless Massachusetts Factor guest today exclaimed..."What if France came into the U.S. and barged into our banks to sift thru our banking records in the name of French national security?" That would go over well wouldn't it boys?
Posted by: Johnny at June 27, 2006 09:48 PM (Vtwo9)
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Johnny, perhaps you should actually read the NYT article and concentrate on the parts where they state the program is "legal" and that "congress was briefed" and that the program "is classified"; oh and don't forget the part about the program was working, too. When the "anonymous" tipper got to the part of "this is classified, so I want to remain anonymous", the "journalist" should have folded up his notebook and ended the interview. This is not a check in a check and balance system; this is deliberate disclosure of classified information. This act is not covered by the First Amendment; it is however covered by Title 18, United States Code Section 798. (You can read it in a prior comment if you're actually interested in reality.)
Posted by: Old Soldier at June 28, 2006 07:07 AM (X2tAw)
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Is that the famous of Johnny of "Why Johnny Can't Read"?
Posted by: Zhombre at June 28, 2006 08:43 AM (Xm4xl)
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Congress was briefed? Harry Reid was quoted as saying he was briefed just a couple of weeks ago. The program has been running for years. They just now getting around to it? Admin officials also admitted the only reason why they briefed members of congress was because they knew the NYT was sniffing around asking questions about the program. The program itself maybe legal but the President refusing to allow the US Congress to have insight into those programs is the grey area.
As far as Title 18 goes, when they prosecute Novak (and all the editors of the papers he is syndicated to that printed his article) for outing Plame, then they should go after NYT. Classified is classified whether its a program or a person's cover.
Posted by: matt a at June 28, 2006 10:27 AM (IHMpz)
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Matt,
Plame wasn't outside the states within 5 years so wasn't covert.
TITLE VI-- PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION
Section 606 terms and definitions, # 4 A
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 28, 2006 11:42 AM (JSetw)
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matt a,
For once...just once...try to get the facts right. No one has been arrested or indicted or officially accused of "outing" Plame. Why after so many years of investigation do you think that is? Could it possible be that NO LAW WAS BROKEN? Stop with your whining mantra. Plame was not "covert" and not "classified". Hadley at CIA told Novak she worked there when he was asked. Figure this out. These are not the same cases at all.
Posted by: Specter at June 28, 2006 03:42 PM (ybfXM)
14
Navy - I googled plame and found this summary from WaPo (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102800982.html - first link to come up). "Bob Woodward told Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald on Nov. 14, 2005, that a senior government official talked to him about Plame and her covert status two years ago. This revelation cast doubt on allegations that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was the first Bush administration official to out Plame. Woodward's testimony also raised questions about his decision to keep silent about the conversation during the past two years, despite an ongoing investigation into the affair."
I'm not arguing whether she was in country or not, but her cover most certainly was classified. Reporter Miller got Plame's name from Libby, Reporter Cooper got it from Rove, Rove got it from Libby. Cheney heard it from Tenet but Tenet doesn't remember telling Cheney. The only one to get screwed here was Libby for trying to lie about where he heard it from (Tim Russert). We still don't know who Woodward talked to 2 years ago or how did Libby find out. If it was that simple as title and verse, why wouldn't someone just step up and say, "I did it"? Why the who's on first, what's on second routine?
Spectre - Don't be nieve. In politics, laws don't matter. Nixon was never charged with a crime so I suppose under your interpretation, no laws were broken? US Rep. Cynthia McKinney didn't get charged with assaulting a police officer so I guess she didn't break a law either. Those are just 2 examples. Politicians get a way with breaking the law all the time. Its the exception to the rule to actually hold someone accountable. Amazing how conservatives want to hold a politican accountable for lying about an affair with an intern but not accountable for lying about giving classified information out. The NYT sure. The WSJ nope (they had the same story brewing as did LA Times and WaPo).
Posted by: matt a at June 29, 2006 10:19 AM (IHMpz)
15
Matt,
I don't get why you believe the Washington Post over the actual instruction that governs the situation.
Plame came back in the states from her last covert assignment in 97. The instruction clearly states that to be deemed "covert", an agent is out CONUS or was within the last 5 years.
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 29, 2006 10:24 AM (nFSnk)
16
I can pull a dozen similarly worded summaries about Valerie Plume and I don't have a problem with the summary from WaPo in this case because Woodward (you know, WaPo most famous reporter) is shown to be the administration's lap dog that he is. His words, that he knew she was classified 2 years ago and he got it from someone senior. Who was it? No one knows.
You seem to be hung up on covert vs classified. Her cover was covert in that she was not in the "open" doing what she was doing oversees but even after she came back, her role still remains classified. For example, a US Navy SEAL could be inserted covertly and execute an operation, but his role in that operation and the fact that he participated is classified. Leaking the name of the Navy SEAL as being a covert operative when it was still classified would still be wrong.
Again, I contend that if ANY of this was actually the case for Valerie Plume in terms of regulations and status, there wouldn't have been an investigation at all as someone should have stepped up and said she didn't have a classified status anymore. Didn't happen.
Posted by: matt a at June 29, 2006 01:50 PM (IHMpz)
17
Whatsamatta matt a? Can't handle the fact the nobody you wanted to get charged did? Let's call the Wahhhhmmmmbulance. You sound like a little kid at times - and we can tell when you are angry because your spelling goes out the window.
But really - are you actually following the story? There is an individual identified as UGO (Unidentified Government Official) who told Fitz in early 2004 that he was the one who told reporters. So far the individual's identity has been protected, but speculation is that it is Armitage. He was Woodward's source and it appears he was Cooper's first source. You can speculate all you want, but the case is basically done with and nobody is going to be charged - no laws broken. Now when Rocky gets hit for the NSA leak - we are going to have lots of fun.
Posted by: Specter at June 29, 2006 02:18 PM (ybfXM)
18
Matt,
Did you even read the statute? Not what you remember about it but what I actually pointed to. Your summation is completely off. Classified isn't even mentioned about an agent back in the states. Classification pertains to information or details of what an Agent had done, not the Agent themselves. They are either covert, or not. She was at one time, but wasn't since 97 so dosn't qualify anymore. It is that simple.
Posted by: Retired Navy at June 29, 2006 02:29 PM (elhVA)
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Biodegradable Journalism
I see the AP's Laurie Kellman has an article up today about the President's use of signing statements.
Compared to the earlier works that unsuccessfully attempted to gin up controversy on this subject, I find Kellman's recycling attempt to be uninspired.
Personally, I found the
April 30 story in the Boston
Globe to be better written from the liberal hysteria point-of-view, and so I'm a little disappointed that Kellman didn't improve it. Material collected from the April
Globe article, Lithwick's timeless hyperventilating on
January 30 in
Slate, or the snarky
January 2 article in the
Washington Post, really should have enabled her to come out with a stronger
post-consumer recycled product.
Instead, it appears that far from being 100% recyclable, this attempt seems destined for composting. I guess some media stories aren't all that recyclable after all.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:09 PM
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Taking Money From Crackers
That seems to be the "sin" that so shocked Washington Post staff writer Mathew Mosk. A black conservative candidate actually accepted campaign contributions from white conservative donors. Oh, Bartleby! Oh, Humanity!
Not one to waste time, Mosk starts
race-baiting out of the gate:
The fundraiser thrown for Maryland Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele on Thursday night, while ordinary in most ways, struck some African American leaders as notable because of the host.
Unlike the dozens of high-dollar events across the country in his U.S. Senate bid, this event was thrown by the producer of the famous "Willie Horton" ad, the 1988 commercial that came to symbolize the cynical use of skin color as a political wedge.
It seemed a most unusual choice for Steele, the first African American elected to statewide office in Maryland and a Republican whose strategy for winning a Senate seat in a state dominated by Democrats has involved the aggressive courtship of black voters.
I was in high school when the Horton commercial came out and honestly don't remember it, but this is what Wikipedia had to say about
Mr. Horton:
William R. Horton Jr. (born August 12, 1951 in Chesterfield, South Carolina) is a convicted felon who was the subject of a Massachusetts weekend furlough program that released him while serving a life sentence for murder, without the possibility of parole, providing him the opportunity to commit a rape and armed robbery. A political advertisement during the 1988 U.S. Presidential race was critical of the Democratic nominee and Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis for his support of the program.
[snip]
Beginning on September 21, 1988, the Americans for Bush arm of the National Security Political Action Committee, began running an attack ad entitled "Weekend Passes," using the Horton case to attack Dukakis. The ad was produced by media consultant Larry McCarthy, who had previously worked for Ailes. After clearing the ad with television stations, McCarthy went back and added a menacing mug shot of Horton, who is African-American. He called the image "every suburban mother's greatest fear." The ad was run as an independent expenditure, separate from the Bush campaign, which claimed, as is legally required, not to have had any role in its production.
On October 5, a day after the "Weekend Passes" ad was taken off the airwaves, and also the date of the infamous Bentsen-Quayle debate, the Bush campaign ran its own ad, "Revolving Door," which also attacked Dukakis over the weekend furlough program. While the advertisement did not mention Horton or feature his photograph, it depicted a variety of intimidating-looking men walking in and out of prison through a revolving door.
The commercial was filmed at an actual state prison in Draper, Utah, but the persons depicted - thirty in all, including three African-Americans and two Hispanics - were all paid actors. Attempting to counter-attack, Dukakis's campaign ran a similar ad about a Hispanic murderer named Angel Medrano who murdered a pregnant mother of two while on furlough from a federal, rather than state, prison, the idea being that this would reflect negatively on Bush, who was the sitting Vice-President. Dukakis's ad stated Medrano's name and showed his photograph.
So while the effectiveness of the Horton commercial made Americans remember it as a symbol of using race as a wedge, both Parties were guilty of using racism in their 1988 campaigns. Republicans just had the more memorable commercial. It is interesting how the
Post writer chose not to cover both sides of this low point in American politics, but considering his already obvious agenda, it should hardly be surprising.
Mosk makes his angle even more apparent just a few paragraphs down:
Nor, Steele said, was there anything incongruous about donations he took from others who have offended black audiences in the past, including Republican Sens. Trent Lott (Miss.) and Conrad Burns (Mont.) as well as Alex Castellanos, the man behind the racially charged "White Hands" ad that then-Sen. Jesse Helms (R-N.C.) used to attack his black challenger.
It featured a close-up shot of a pair of white hands crumpling a letter as the narrator says, "You needed that job . . . but they had to give it to a minority."
Perhaps the
Washington Post could find a more thinly-veiled way to attempt to label Michael Steele as a race traitor, but short of directly calling him "Uncle Tom" (as Maryland Democrats
have already done), I'm not sure that they could.
Having gone so far to smear Steele, Mosk apparently felt no compunction to maintain historical accuracy when the opportunity arises to smear others.
Democrats said there are several names on Steele's donor list that won't help him. It includes Lott, who lost his leadership post for seeming to endorse Strom Thurmond's 1948 segregationist presidential candidacy, and Burns, who drew sharp criticism for saying he found it "a hell of a challenge" to live among all the blacks in Washington, D.C.
Steele also has received support from former Reagan administration education secretary William J. Bennett, who was criticized for suggesting that aborting black babies would help reduce crime, and former first lady Barbara Bush, who turned heads when she mused that mostly African American evacuees from Katrina living at a Houston shelter "were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." Steele accepted $1,000 from Castellanos, the man behind the "White Hands" ad.
"Having that kind of support sends mixed messages and are going to make it very difficult for him to make inroads with African American voters," said Isiah Leggett, a former state Democratic Party chairman. "He should be smart enough to see the inconsistency there."
Mixed messages? Inconsistency? Mr. Mosk, you have no shame.
Trent Lott's comments on Thurmond's 100th birthday rightfully cost him his seat as the Senate Republican Leader, in a Senate that today counts Democratic Senator and former Klansman Robert Byrd as its longest serving member.
Burns was hammered and rightfully so, for the way he responded to an elderly racist rancher's question about how he could live in Washington, D.C.. Perhaps he simply should have ignored him.
The attack on William Bennett, however, was dishonest. Bennett did not suggest aborting black babies would reduce crime, he pointed out
how ridiculous it would be to abort black children to reduce crime. For that matter, if you aborted all children, your crime rate would go down to zero because there would be no people to commit crimes. Common sense, ripped completely out of context, trotted out by Mosk to continue a reprehensible line of attack. He may be morally bankrupt, but at least he's consistent.
After a half-hearted feint at objectivity that was quickly revealed as a strawman, and a vague warning to black voters that "People are going to want to know where he stands,
and who stands with him [my emphasis]," Mosk concludes:
To this point, Democrats vying to challenge Steele in the Senate race have focused on the money Steele has received from those with ties to President Bush. Their accusation: that Steele is campaigning as someone without partisan ties but is being bankrolled by Bush and his supporters.
Steele has countered that the money does not make the man -- that Bush's name won't be on the ballot in Maryland and Bush won't occupy the Senate seat if Steele wins. The same holds true for such donors as Lott and Burns, Steele said last week.
The important message he has for black voters, he said, "is that it will make a difference for them to have me at the table."
Not to belabor the pot-and-kettle too much, Democrats aren't the only people focusing on contributors to Steel's campaign. That is after all, the very idea that Mosk's article seeks to advance. How much further could he reveal his strong Democratic bias?
Liberal blogger
Steve Gilliard is perfectly content to be led to follow Mosk's script. He puts up a picture of Steele with the caption, "I take money from racists."
Gilliard would know. He is, after all
something of an expert on racism.
Either you're a black Democrat, o you're a race traitor,
says Gilliard.
We learned from Clarence Thomas about how skin color doesn't equal loyalty.
I think Matthew Mosk just found his reader base.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:44 AM
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1
I remember the Willy Horton ad quite clearly. The message that came across was that Dukasis was soft on crime. (Recall also that he said that if his wife was raped he wouldn't want the death penalty). For what it's worth, I don't recall the ad evoking a race issue at all.
Posted by: Jane at June 27, 2006 01:46 PM (uGLhr)
2
Well, they've got some confusing views over there.
1) You can tell everything about a man's politcal views by the color of his/her skin... and presuming to know someone based solely by the color of their skin isn't racist anymore...
2) Politics break down into 2 viewpoints, "Black issues" and "non-black issues". Candidates who support "black issues" should get black votes; which somehow doesn't presume that non-blacks should allow this obvious and clear dichotomy to affect their voting habits at all (unless they're racist).
Posted by: Gekkobear at June 27, 2006 02:41 PM (X0NX1)
3
Interesting that an article on "the cynical use" of race as a "political wedge" managed to reach back nearly 20 years for the Horton ad, but avoided the NAACP ad just six years ago implicating the GOP presidential candidate in the dragging death of James Byrd of Texas.
This feat is made all the more impressive because the article mentions the man who OK'd the ad, "Kweisi Mfume, a former congressman and NAACP president," and a candidate in the current race.
Of course, even though the NAACP spent (if I recall) $2 million airing the Byrd ad, few if any mainstream media outlets brought attention to it in 2000, when just about every campaign spot was scrutinized. Because the storyline that mainstream media desperately clings to -- in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary – is that only Republicans, and only whites, engage in racial politics, and/or are swayed by racial politics.
So one of the two major parties in the nation can engage in overt, race-based politics, while reporters like Matthew Mosk pretend not to notice. Rather cynical, I’d say.
Posted by: CJ at June 27, 2006 03:00 PM (9KqcB)
4
OK, a little math. (sorry, NEA). But if an ad shows 30 prisoners, and 3 are black, 2 hispanic, that means 25 are white. Hmmm... 80% white. That's more than you need to end cloture. No wonder the libs were pissed.
Posted by: Tim at June 27, 2006 05:36 PM (xqtXG)
5
Being against crime: racist.
Demanding race loyalty: not racist.
Because, you see, "racist" is actually a synonym for "Republican" and has nothing to do with "race."
Posted by: TallDave at June 28, 2006 03:24 PM (nHHeX)
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