Confederate Yankee
October 08, 2007
Sacrificing the Dead
Baghdadi Omar Fadhil of Iraq the Model has a very provocative editorial in WSJ's OpinionJournal this morning which points out a significant momentum shift in Iraq, what al Qaeda is attempting to do to counter this primarily on the media front, and what Mr. Fadhil suggests as a possible solution.
He begins:
The latest chapter in al Qaeda's war manual in their war against the Iraqi people and the Coalition is this: raiding remote peaceful villages, burning down homes and slaughtering both man and beast. It's a campaign of self destruction.
For about a year al Qaeda has been trying to build a so called Islamic State in Iraq. On several occasions al Qaeda has even declared parts of Baghdad or other places in other provinces the capital of this Islamic State.
But now that they are losing one base after another, their objective seems to have changed from adding more towns and villages to the "state" to destroying the very same towns and villages. Obviously, it's all about making headlines regardless of the means to do that.
Fahil's statement that al Qaeda has been pushed out of major cities into the countryside may seem shocking to many casual western readers, but that is precisely what has occurred over the past year at an ever-accelerating pace. While small terrorists cells cannot possibly be eliminated in major cities, most significant groups of al Qaeda terrorists have found themselves pushed out of Fallujah, Ramadi, Baquba, Baghdad, and other metropolitian areas, and strikes by the group--and perhaps more tellingly, coalition strikes on terrorist safe houses, caches, and bomb-building factories--are mostly now occurring in remote rural areas and small, out-of-the-way villages.
As the much-maligned Iraqi Army, Police, and local militia forces are taking over once-contested neighborhoods and towns, al Qaeda has no sustainable presence or large urban areas under their control. No longer holding any sizable territory, they have been reduced to dispersing out into rural areas, and they typically only come together in numbers to launch raids un lightly-defended targets.
It is during these times on raids of villages when al Qaeda elements are massed, and often overwhelm remote "villages" that may be little more than a few tribal compounds without nearby police stations or Iraqi Army garrisons to call to provide a defense. The groups of heavily armed al Qaeda terrorists typically overwhelm the residents of these rural communities quickly, and
massacre them.
Fadhil makes two proposals to deal with the threat of al Qaeda assaults on these remote villages.
The first is to establish a national alarm system which would alert the nearest coalition forces that would help villagers get out the word that an attack is underway. The problem is that often times the locations under attack are so remote that coalition forces may not arrive until after the villagers have already been massacred, leaving a victorious al Qaeda standing alone, gloating over the bodies of the dead. It is during this dark time, where most or all friendly civilians are presumed dead and al Qaeda forces are concentrated, that Mr. Fadhil makes a bold suggestion:
But even then if the troops fail to arrive in time to intercept the attack, which would be truly sad, the long distance that al Qaeda fighters would have to travel to go back to their base would require them to lose precious time since they have to rely only on ground transport on mostly exposed terrain while the troops very often have the advantage of the much faster air transport.
In the worst case scenario what's left of a village if the attack is not intercepted would be only al Qaeda fighters and the remains of what used to be a village. Now isn't that the perfect target for the countless aggressive fire units of the U.S. military?
Now please let's put emotions aside for a while because this is war we're talking about and if sacrifices cannot be avoided we should make sure the enemy pays the heaviest price possible. If reaction is quick enough--and timing here is of crucial importance--the hunt would be great and the results would be spectacular.
Critics are sure to latch onto Fadhil's comment as an echo of a flustered Major Borris' infamous "We had to destroy Ben Tre in order to save it" description of the
re-taking of Be Tre in 1968, but that would be a statement based in ignorance and sentimentality.
Without the people, there is no village, just a collection of bullet-pocked buildings amidst a massacre, where the only men left standing are terrorists, and perhaps a handful of hidden villagers. What Fadhil is advocating is the destruction of the concentrated al Qaeda force in the event that it becomes apparent that there are no villagers left. He advocates striking al Qaeda either as they escape, or in the village itself as a last resort.
The response he advocates may sound callous, but it is pragmatic. If several dozen terrorists can be identified in a given location after a village is destroyed, either while they are still in the village or are attempting to escape, all available coalition firepower should be brought to bear to wipe out the cell, if for no other reason than to keep them from surviving to carry out future attacks on other remote villages.
After a handful of such counterstrike missions are executed successfully and al Qaeda knows that each attack on a village is tantamount to a suicide mission, one has to wonder how many more they will be willing to carry out, and what options they would have remaining in a country increasingly out of their reach to control.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:33 AM
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Thank you for posting this. But there's something in the post of the massacre that is just as important to note as the savage attack: Shia Iraqis came to the rescue.
This is important, because people like Bill O'Reilly have reinforced the left's perception of Iraq that the underlying problem in Iraq is the sects' inability to get along. This article only proves, once again, that this perception is one that created by the left in the one of their typical plays. The politicians, who are definitely more in tune with world opinion, seem to only parrot these beliefs. It seems to me that the poor everyday Iraqi doesn't care about sect as much as us westerners do.
Posted by: Lauren at October 08, 2007 05:40 PM (rcjXi)
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Actually, if we continue to permit Iraqis to legally carry AK-47s, the attacks on villages may themselves start to turn out badly for Al Qaeda.
Terrorists and other criminals fear people that can shoot back.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 08, 2007 08:15 PM (TBuKI)
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What Mr. Fadhil is suggesting is a great idea. It is unfortunate that the possibility of a whole village being wiped out before help arrives, but it is a reality that the Iraqi's and the Coalition forces face on a daily basis. It also should be a reality to everyone out there that people getting killed for no other reason than because they are against Al Qaeda is for no other word very real. (What I mean by the above statement is that there are still people out there that believe that we can talk and group hug with these people and they'll listen, how stupid is that though process) What is the possibility of when the alarm is sounded that we put a predator up in the air over the village and follow the Al Qaeda/insurgents back to their home base and get all of them in one attack. Of course the real thing is to first respond to save the village, but if we can't we can track them and destroy them so that they can't hurt anybody else. I'm pretty sure that this has already been thought of and discussed between the Coalition forces and the Iraqi's.
Posted by: Richard Daugehrty at October 09, 2007 12:22 PM (tCFmR)
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October 07, 2007
Rape is not the Flu
Sexual assault is no caused by a bacteria or prion. Rape is not a virus, with gang rape being a more virulent strain of a virus.
Rape is an act of power, control and brutality.
It is not an epidemic, and attempting to call it such strips away the fact that it is caused by a brutal act of will. It is not an unfriendly act of nature, a microbe following what it is designed to do, and using language that portrays it is such is inexcusable.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:42 AM
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American Heritage Dictionary
ep·i·dem·ic (ep'i-dem'ik)
n.
1. An outbreak of a contagious disease that spreads rapidly and widely.
2. A rapid spread, growth, or development: an unemployment epidemic.
Sometimes words have more than one meaning.
Posted by: nunaim at October 07, 2007 07:59 AM (OcyzQ)
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Funny that the nytimes didn't see fit to note all the past sexual assaults by UN troops. Guess they didn't want to disparage their own "country's" armed forces.
At the end of the day, this is a report from the NY Times and the UN. What possible reason do you have to believe that there is any truth at all in this article?
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 11:35 AM (ZJg8X)
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Obviously, the use of the word "epidemic" is grammatically correct, nunaim. That's not the point; if you read the article, CY is right about how it is written in a somewhat off-putting neutrality. Writing about how they "don't know why so many rapes are happening" as if they weren't perpetrated by individuals. It's subtle to be sure, but one cannot deny how much weaker the reporting sounds because of it.
Posted by: K-Det at October 07, 2007 11:48 AM (u0+iW)
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Iconoclast, clearly the NY Times believes Orwell's statement that everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. The UN is obviously in the "more equal" category at the Times.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 02:09 PM (6c3XF)
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Indeed, that whole line "We don't know why these rapes are happening" kinda makes it seem like a disease. If we only we could determine how these woman are contracting rape perhaps we could do something about it. Perhaps it is caused by some insect or something in the water.
I'm not a sociologist so I have a pretty good idea what is causing this 'epidemic'. Take a bunch of children and raise them in regimented enviroment where everything is rrelated to violence and as they reach puberty reinforce the violent tendencies by equating sex with violence and you get some nasty viscous killers who will tend to rape people. Nothing new or ground breaking about the technique, been used off and on as far back as history has gone on (remember the Spartan training regime anyone, care to examine the original training programs for the Janissaries?). Hmm, I wonder if anyone has been creating these type of culture of violence armies anywhere recently.
Posted by: Mix at October 07, 2007 02:39 PM (G0N1G)
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I blame global warming, Mix.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 03:47 PM (u1Ozw)
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I would think 'mayhem' would be a better descriptor.
Posted by: PETN Sandwich at October 07, 2007 03:52 PM (XBgRS)
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I blame Bush.
By liberating the Iraqis and showing them the way to democracy, he's given third world people everywhere the idea that they shouldn't be raped by their totalitarian leaders or the oh-so-caring UN representatives.
(only partly tongue-in-cheek... you figure out which parts)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 04:17 PM (TBuKI)
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You are not alone on that Iconoclast, but I cannot accept that. GW may be responsible for violence (although I put more emphasis on corrupt politicians) but not the increased incidence of women contracting rape.
Of course I'm not a sociologist, so what do I know besides reality? I'm sure a sociologist can clearly demonstrate how GW, Bush or perhaps even Milton Friedman's death caused the increase in rapes after an examination of 15 fruit flies and a pen cap.
(I am a little tough on sociologists. There are some useful parts to sociology and excellent sociologists, but too many of them draw unwarrented and outrageous conclusions from miniscule data sets which have no relevance to the conclusions they twist from them. The general trend is the poorer the science the more attention it recieves, and this gives the field a poorer reputation than it truely deserves.)
Posted by: mix at October 07, 2007 05:36 PM (G0N1G)
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Actually, Mix, I can get ya a PhD in Sociology right now.
If something is bad, blame it on a Republican or conservative policy or politician.
If something is good, credit it to a Democrat or liberal policy or politician.
To see if something is good or bad, look at who is promoting it. If a Democrat or liberal promotes it, it is good. If a Republican or conservative promotes it, it is bad.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 06:10 PM (TBuKI)
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mix
sorry, i forgot the \sarcasm tag. GW has as much effect on those violent rapes in the Congo as does the fruit flies...absolutely none.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 11:11 PM (TzLpv)
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Sean Connery: "I'll take The Rapist for $500!"
Trebeck: "Thats 'Therapist' Mr. Connery...."
Posted by: Lorne Michaels at October 07, 2007 11:38 PM (smjGq)
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October 06, 2007
When Any Bombing Photo Will Do
I don't know much about the "World News Network," but I can tell them this: if you're going to write a story about people killed in bombings during Ramadan in Iraq, it is probably best that you don't use a picture from a March truck bombing in Tal Afar.
Update: As noted in the comments this photo apparently came from--where else?-- a Reuters feed. At least that gave the military photographer, Chris Brogan, the credit.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:40 PM
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Are you really surprised? It appears to be a Reuters feed in the World News article.
Posted by: Sara at October 06, 2007 10:03 PM (hGL+y)
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it is a Reuter's feed and they even gave photo credit -- (photo: US Army file/Sgt. 1st Class Robert C. Brogan)-- which I recall Reuter's got busted in recent past not photo crediting Military image shots.
Posted by: Topsecretk9 at October 06, 2007 11:15 PM (ryO1F)
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Great catch, CY. And nice follow up, Topsecretk9.
Posted by: Dusty at October 06, 2007 11:27 PM (1Lzs1)
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Thanks Dusty, but Sara pointed out that it was a Reuters feed...
You should really take a gander at the World News Network slide show feed associated with the story - I could swear that image #2 of a truck bombing is one of the guy who shot 43,984 children behind broken glass or the same broken door in different months ( from like March or Feb), but on whole the slideshow captions are pointing to good news in Iraq - my guess, using general imagery to capture the stories.
They still shouldn't do this though on EVENT type stories, it's dangerous no matter which point of view. I'm agnostic a little bit on human interest stories if it's not egregious.
Nevermind. It's wrong on all fronts.
Posted by: topsecretk9 at October 07, 2007 01:10 AM (ryO1F)
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Yeah, sorry I missed that Sara.
About the photographers, Topsecretk9, pretty much all of the stringers take do the "through the hole" pictures. You may be referring to Wissam al-Okaili, of magic bullet fame, though. He stands out for me having looked through all his photos and seing dozens of them, but that may be because I searched his archive and not those of others.
As for the crediting of photos, I can't remember Reuters not doing it. The BBC didn't (doesn't?) which was caused by AFP, and it appeared, from my review at least, that the problem was a system wide breakdown by wire services and MSM in taking 'free to use' military photos and loading them for subscriber use and then wanting credit for making them available in their own service. Thus, the original sources were disconnected from the photos.
As CY notes, they appear to be righting that wrong now.
Posted by: Dusty at October 07, 2007 12:20 PM (1Lzs1)
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Picky, picky, picky! All victims look the same to the media. What did you expect, truth?
Posted by: AST at October 09, 2007 12:53 AM (0gJcF)
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October 05, 2007
Commercially Insane
Feminist author and progressive political activist Naomi Wolf has had some rather interesting statements published in the Huffington Post recently, from her April insistence that the Bush Administration is on a ten-step program to launch a military coup, to her more recent outburst/description of "Don't tase me, Bro" boy's experience as the "iconic turning point and it will be remembered as the moment at which America either fought back or yielded."
Her Sept. 24
Huffington Post blog entry insists that the Senate's toothless resolution condemning MoveOn.Org's "General Betray Us?" ad is evidence of the current Presidential administration's ever-starting transformation to a dictator reminiscent of Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, or perhaps even Genghis Khan.
All of Wolf's cries on
The Huffington Post over the past year have been erratic, and to all but the most dedicated partisan, are immediately dismissed as increasingly bizarre tropes of someone who seems to be afflicted with a regrettable degree of paranoia.
Or is Wolf just "cashing in" on crazy?
She continues down the path of perpetual paranoia today with
Blackwater: "Newly Created Thug Caste," where she appeals to the readers of
firedoglake (home of
manbearpig?), a group that once indulged in a community-based fantasy that believed putting a Jew in blackface would win an election for a WASP.
In this latest post--which, imagine that,
links to her new book--Wolf whips up the Folsomesque masses further.
But how much of what Wolf says is true, and how much of it is the most dishonest sort of stem-winding (and cash-flow generating) propaganda?
In
her latest dark fantasy in the
Huffington Post, Wolf penned such an insulting falsehood that it warrants a direct response instead of the usual head-shaking dismissal.
Wolf stated:
Joseph Goebbels pioneered the 'embedding' of reporters with military troops as a way to support favorable coverage; William Shirer was embedded with German troops in the invasion of France and Nazi filmmaker Leni von Riefenstahl was embedded with German troops in Poland.
This claim is made by a blinded partisan who is only capable of seeing history as it can be molded to suit her desire to link infamous totalitarians of the past with our present (and lest she forget,
popularly elected) president.
Reality, of course, is something quite different.
Whether she is talking about the term "embedded reporter," or the practical application of them, Wolf is hopelessly and laughably wrong when stating Goebbels or the Nazis had anything to do with them.
The modern term "embedded reporter" came about not in Hilter's Germany in the 1930s, but in a direct
and new partnership between literally dozens of news organizations and the U.S. Department of Defense
in 2003.
It isn't a perfect arrangement; the unprecedented media access to war comes at the risk of a lack of objective distance between the reporter and the reporting of the war. That said, the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the most well-documented invasion in human history, with
no less than 257 journalists from
a multitude of news organizations embedded directly with coalition military forces.
Further, Wolf was wrong and perhaps purposefully duplicitous, in attempting to link CBS' William Shirer with Leni von Riefenstahl's blatant propaganda efforts.
Shirer did travel with German troops to Paris, and he broke the story of the 1940 armistice between Germany and France, but Wolf refused to mention that Shirer wrote to CBS and complained about German attempts at censorship, and that he
fled a building Gestapo case against him in December of 1940 as a result of failing to play by their rules.
Shirer's impression of Goebbels' pronouncements, "invariably banal, the product of a mind that though nimble was fundamentally mediocre," are
not those of a fan.
Unlike Shirer, Leni von Riefenstahl wasn’t anything remotely like a journalist, another important distinction a duplicitous Wolf tries to smear over. A dancer, actress, and eventually a director, this personal friend of Joseph Goebbels and acquaintance of Adolph Hitler created a film,
Triumph of the Will, that became known as one of the most effective propaganda films in history.
It is a slap in the face of today's embedded journalists that Wolf would compare them to a blatant propagandist like von Riefenstahl. ABC News co-anchor Bob Woodruff and cameraman Doug Vogt, who are
still recovering from wounds suffered in an IED blast in January of 2006, are journalists. Likewise, Wolf smears experienced Russian photojournalist
Dmitry Chebotayev a veteran of conflicts in Chechnya, Lebanon, the Golan Heights, and Iraq. killed with American soldiers by another IED just this year.
Perhaps Wolf does not like
the mixed reviews of some embedded journalists in Iraq and certainly loathes stories
filed by others, but that does not make them propagandists. It makes them human, reporting what they find, when they find it.
There is no legitimate way to compare today's embedded journalists to Goebbels' propagandist, no way to compare Shire to Hitler’s filmmaker von Riefenstahl, no honest way of linking von Riefenstahl to Bob Woodruff.
There are indeed propagandists at work. Wolf herself has become one, not to peddle her philosophy, but to pad her coffers.
Returning once again to her post today at
FiredogLake, Wolf once again traffics in her own "big lies," as she attacks North Carolina security company Blackwater USA. In this post, she calls these military contractors a "thug caste" and compares with the Blackshirts:
Congress doesn’t get who Blackwater contractors are. Prince likes to wrap his people in the flag and say they are facing `bad guys.’ Prince actually systematically recruits the baddest of the `bad guys’: Jeremy Scahill reports that Blackwater intentionally recruits former military and paramilitary personnel from regimes that specialize in neofascist repression of their own populations and who train their paramilitary and military in the torture and subjugation of their own critics, journalists, political leaders and other civil society figures: Ecuadorans, Nigerians, Chileans, Syrians. That is who we can find ourselves facing in the streets of New York — or Kansas City — tomorrow unless Congress rolls back the horrific laws that gave the President and Prince these dark-side powers.
My God! Blackwater is infiltrated with neofascist foreigners looking to take over and torture Kansas City! Only, this isn't the truth... in fact, it isn't remotely close to being true.
Blackwater does hire foreign contractors in a subsidiary called Greystone Limited, but these contractors are hired for general duties (such as convoy escort) in Iraq and Afghanistan, and
are not deployed within the United States.
There are no armed Nigerian mercenaries plotting to take over Los Angeles, or contract death squads of Syrians to repress citizens in Sacremento, unless they wandered up from San Diego on their own over a virtually undefended border .
As a matter of real facts, a condition of general contract requirements at Blackwater is that an applicant
must be a U.S. Citizen and proof of citizenship is required. Further, potential contracting employees must be honorably discharged from the military, and have no felony, violent crimes, spouse or child abuse convictions.
But this is reality, and reality doesn't excite those who the author would convince into buying her book. Wolf is trying to make a living by pandering to the paranoids, the black helicopter sect of the fringe left, in order to profit from their distrust of President Bush.
I wish her the best in profiting from her peddling of snake oil over the next 473 days. Her readers however, are likely to feel very betrayed on
January 20, 2009.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:12 PM
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Aren't some of her fantasies about taking over "Kansas City" from Jericho.
Posted by: kat-missouri at October 05, 2007 04:24 PM (io+Si)
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Isn't this the woman who as an Al Gore adviser told him he should dress in "earth tones" to reduce the alpha-male gap between him and Dubya? Her father Leonard is a nutcase too. You could look him up.
Posted by: Banjo at October 05, 2007 05:04 PM (1DQ52)
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My God! Blackwater is infiltrated with neofascist foreigners looking to take over and torture Kansas City!
Actually Blackwater provided "security operatives" for New Orleans right after Katrina... but don't let that stop you from being obtuse about all of the other things that Wolf wrote.
Posted by: tbogg at October 05, 2007 05:13 PM (n+/Jk)
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Another graduate of the Beauchamp School of Journalism, I see.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 07:21 PM (6c3XF)
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tbogg, I know you've never been cited as a leading intellectual by anyone on your side of the aisle, but surely, even you can tell the difference between security personnel who provided a service during a time of lawlesness after a major natural disaster, and an armed coup.
Or maybe you can't, in which case I was giving you far too much credit.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 05, 2007 07:34 PM (HcgFD)
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Genuine insanity is a terrible thing. This woman is insane and I feel bad for her.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 05, 2007 07:38 PM (Pup3o)
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Great post. Her rant was ignorant and childish! She left a little tidbit out on Betsy DeVos..Her sister-in-law..Pamella DeVos, is also known as the up and coming designer Pamella Rowland...maybe we can blame Bush for her success?!?!?
Is she aware that we have employed companies just like Blackwater for at least 30 years?
tbogg, didn't they have to do that because the police force deserted and Blanco was a bit overwhelmed?
Posted by: Pam at October 05, 2007 09:26 PM (kAMqq)
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"This woman is insane and I feel bad for her."
What? Insane? But tbogg thinks she's the greatest! Puts a new light on tbogg now doesn't it?
Posted by: SShiell at October 05, 2007 09:26 PM (PiekE)
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One minor quibble. Embedding reporters started under Reagan's Administration with the invasion of Grenada.
Other than that, excellent post.
RT
Posted by: RT at October 05, 2007 11:44 PM (XGnqQ)
Posted by: Voice of Reason at October 06, 2007 12:30 AM (K1Emm)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 10:22 AM (6c3XF)
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The hysteria over Blackwater obscures the fact that they're currently in Iraq because we don't have enough troops to pacify terror cells, protect neighborhoods, and provide security for convoys. As long as they're needed, they'll be around in one capacity or another. No amount of foaming at the mouth from Naomi Wolf is going to change that.
Posted by: Nathan Tabor at October 06, 2007 02:21 PM (Vrju/)
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I saw that her mention Shirer and Riefenstahl in the same context and thought I had crossed into the Looking Glass
Posted by: baldilocks at October 06, 2007 05:50 PM (1wZNq)
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Reading insane nonsense like Wolf's reminds me of listening to J Z Knight (also known as the mouthpiece for Ramtha, a 35,000 year old warrior who seems to require lots of money for Knight) in "What the Bleep" (I know...my ex-wife drug me there). All the words were english and seemed to be strung together in grammatically correct fashion, but no matter how I parsed it nothing made any sense at all. It clearly is the same with Ms. Wolf (who may or may not have been channelling an adolescent--and drunk--male when she scribed the above).
Just stitch together the words Bush, Nazi, Riefenstahl, Shirer, Stalin, with a few verbs and adjectives and voila! We have a new trope. Not an understandable one, mind you, but that never has stopped the goofy left so far.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 06, 2007 08:22 PM (CM4SB)
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I think we're gonna see a LOT of this type of thing over the next year. Wolf is working up the troops, the Democrat core constituents, with tales of "fascism" and paranoia.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at October 06, 2007 09:12 PM (byuKK)
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I think we're gonna see a LOT of this type of thing over the next year. Wolf is working up the troops, the Democrat core constituents, with tales of "fascism" and paranoia.
I sure hope so.
Every time some of this gets made public, it pushes John Q. Voter further from the Party of the Donkey.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 09:33 PM (6c3XF)
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2007 Weblog Awards Open the Nominations
The nomination process for the 2007 Weblog Awards is now open in 49 categories until October 15.
Go on over and nominate your favorites after reading
the nomination FAQ.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:49 AM
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I'll get to it tonight. I have to find my other passwords 'cause TypeKey isn't working.
Posted by: Dusty at October 05, 2007 05:39 PM (1Lzs1)
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Hmmm... any suggestions about which blog you'd like us to nominate? (grin)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 08:20 PM (6c3XF)
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CCG, I'm hoping that you'll go out and nominate blogs that may have some really good and/or undeserved talent, especially in the newer categories.
Me, I tend to do okay, but thanks for the thought. ;-)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 05, 2007 08:43 PM (HcgFD)
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Somehow, I Just Don't Think That's the Whole Story
Via VOA News:
U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has expressed concern that the slow process of approval for U.S. arms sales is forcing some countries, including Iraq, to buy weapons elsewhere. VOA's Al Pessin reports from Santiago, Chile, where Secretary Gates is visiting.
Frustration over the slow approval process resulted in a $100 million Iraqi arms purchase from China, announced in Washington Wednesday by Iraqi President Jalal Talabani. The light weapons are for Iraq's police forces. Secretary Gates says that causes him some concern.
"We have been concerned that our process is taking too long. On the other hand, the first request we received from the Iraqis for weapons was in January. We have already delivered over $600 million worth of weapons," he said.
Secretary Gates says another two-to-three-billion dollars worth of Iraqi purchases are in the process of being approved. The secretary says he is not particularly concerned that the Iraqi police purchase went to China, but he says the United States needs to improve its Foreign Military Sales Program for all its customers.
"This is an issue that we have to look into and see what we can do in the United States to be more responsive and to be able to react more quickly to the requirements of our friends," said Gates.
If his
Wikipedia bio is accurate, Robert Gates has never had any sales experience, which explains a lot. Let me take this opportunity, as someone who had sold a weapon or two, to explain what probably really happened here.
The slow procurement process may have been a good excuse, but for this particular $100 million small arms purchase from China, an excuse is probably all it was. The truth is that U.S. small arms are inferior for Iraqi needs.
The primary U.S. military assault rifle these days is the M4, a variant of the decades-old M16. It shoots a 5.56mm, .22 caliber bullet.
The M4 features a much shorter barrel than the M16, which means that the small 22-caliber bullet doesn't build up that much velocity or power. The result? Bad guys often
don't go down even when shot multiple times, and are often quite capable of still fighting back. Because of this poor performance from short-barreled rifles, various other calibers are being tested as a replacement, including the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendal.
In addition to stopping power issues, the M4/M16 family of weapons, while typically quite accurate, require diligent maintenance, and if they aren't take care of, quickly become inoperative. As a result, variants of the weapon with completely different operating systems are under development, and trials to replace the entire weapons system ebb and flow around the obsolete design.
Compounding all of this is that fact that these are not inexpensive firearms, with variants potentially costing into the thousands of dollars for a single firearm when all the bells and whistles are added, and the magazines (which are considered consumables), parts and cleaning kits are also costly over the life of the weapon.
By contrast, the AK-pattern rifles popular in Iraq and elsewhere are favored for a number of obvious reasons. They are quite inexpensive to produce and purchase, require far less maintenance than most comparable weapons systems, and fire a far more effective cartridge(7.62x39) than the 5.56 NATO, which also happens to be far more readily available and less expensive on the open market.
If you have $100 million to spend to arm a police force composed primarily of new recruits who will get only moderate (and uneven) training, are unlikely to practice a diligent maintenance schedule, who live in harsh environment when sand and grit will constantly be introduced to their weapons, and prefer that the people they shoot act like they've been shot, which weapon would
you choose?
If I'm in charge of procurements, I'm going for the more reliable, powerful, less expensive weapon every time, a decision not made any more difficult by
any gratuities that may result of this already no-brainer decision.
We've got an antiquated weapon system requiring far too much TLC that fires an anemic round.
That we're delivering it slowly isn't exactly our greatest problem.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:14 AM
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1
Instead of doing an expose' of the body armor used by US forces, they should have done an expose' on the main combat weapon. My days were before the M4, but I was around for the M16 A1 and A2 and I absolutely hated that weapon. I have read that soldiers encountering resistance entering a building have shot the enemy multiple times only to receive return fire. The AK-47 may not be as accurate, but in near combat I would take the spray gun that has the best knock-down power.
Posted by: Mekan at October 05, 2007 02:00 PM (hm8tW)
2
Great post that cuts through the BS.
Can you tell me honestly why you would still support a President dumb enough to appoint a SOD who could not handle this?
Posted by: nick at October 05, 2007 03:19 PM (hsEtQ)
3
But, whatever happened to the 190,000 guns that were "lost" in Iraq?
Posted by: IntelVet at October 05, 2007 04:06 PM (mEP7S)
4
require far less maintenance than most comparable weapons systems
That's a very polite understatement.
The AK and even moreso the SKS are damn near idiot proof. Leave it in the mud for a few weeks? No problem, hose it off and shake it dry. Ten thousand rounds fired without cleaning the barrel? So what.
That and the price differential - who needs skilled armorers when you can just buy another crate load.
Posted by: ThomasD at October 05, 2007 05:18 PM (HDgen)
5
Nick, the M4 was offically adopted by the US Armed Forces in 1994.
Who was SecDef in 1994? Who was President? What party was he from?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 08:26 PM (6c3XF)
6
Nick, even a complete moron understands that SoD cannot change our main battle rifle in a year. Remember that the next time you trip over yourself trying to zing one at the current administration without thinking.
sheesh, are all these boneheads completely unhinged from reality?
Posted by: iconoclast at October 06, 2007 01:58 AM (vbO/E)
7
I'm amazed at how the 400-lb-gun-show-habitué community remains bitterly down on US weapons. No sooner had we started the thing in Afghanistan when bogus, fabricated posts began appearing on gun fanboy websites about how awful the M16 series weapons were and how much better we'd be served with a return to 1950s vintage technology.
Yes, the AK is cheaper. Yes, it's very reliable. It's also horribly inaccurate. AK accuracy has probably saved more American lives this war than body armor. These are all consequences of its design. It was intended to be a submachine gun replacement, meant to be used in short-range, automatic fire by soldiers with rudimentary training, and was provided with a secondary aimed capability. That's why the sight radius is as short as it is, and why the first click on the selector is crowd control.
One thing that armchair gun fanboys don't grasp is that rifles are only one part of a combat unit's combat power, and they are normally not its most effective part. Your machine guns and mortars kill the enemy. Your rifles protect the flanks of your crew-served weapons.
In urban combat, good ergonomics, light weight, rapid target acquisition, and night vision integration are most important. But a weapon needs to be useful both indoors and out.
With the ACOG, we've had kills to 500m with the M4. Outside 500m ain't rifle range -- not for anything you can also use inside a mud house.
The biggest single problem with the M4 system is the low-quality, "minority set-aside contract" magazines, which are the cause of most stoppages. Best way to keep the thing rockin' is to hoard older magazines (one guy I knew stuck to Vietnam era 20-rounders) or suck it up and buy the HK steel mags (very expensive).
Yes, the terminal ballistics of the A2/M4 generation weapons with the M855 ball are poor. That's because Big Green decided, for whatever reason, that armor penetration at 800m was the driving terminal ballistic criterion, so you often get overpenetration on everyday targets like Hadji in a cotton man-dress. That's not the fault of the weapon as much as the procurement system. There are better loads in the system but they're not available to everybody (and from time to time the JAGs go nuts banning various rounds -- there may be a difference between JAG and Al-Q but it doesn't show up at team level).
Some of the gun show heroes ought to diet off a couple hundred pounds and go for it. See if you can pass the 18B course. If you want to play with guns, we've got your ticket to all the guns in the world right here.
In the meantime, I'm sick of these guys telling me how much better the M14, or BAR, or 1903A1 would be in combat. No, it wouldn't. (There have been a few M14s brought back for special purposes... mostly because we get occasional longer shots, and 14s were in inventory and fire a round with longer range capability. We use a few shotguns too, but that's not a general purpose weapon either). It's those same armchair experts that fought successfully against optical sights for over 50 years, and still whines about them today. Iron sights are as obsolete as the crossbow, steam engine and adding machine.
Historical guns are fine for collectors. (I have AKs and SKSs for that reason myself). But I've fired thousands of rounds from all these weapons and had God-knows how many fired at me, and I have to say that if I got my choice, I'd choose the M4 for shooting other people, and the AK for taking the shot myself.
Of course, as a simple Indian in this tribe I don't get my choice, but Congress may be vulnerable to all the gun-groupie whining and do, as Congress ever does, something stupid.
The Army, on the other hand, often does do the right thing by its guys in weapoons procurement. An example is the replacement, finally, of the crummy M60 by the more durable and dependable M240B. Even though it was "not invented here."
Posted by: Kevin R.C. 'Hognose' O'Brien at October 06, 2007 10:05 AM (LkeNv)
8
sheesh, are all these boneheads completely unhinged from reality?
To ask that question is to answer it.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 10:24 AM (6c3XF)
9
Kevin, who was suggesting a return to 1950s era tech? Certainly not I, and nor did I see anyone else making that suggestion in the comments.
The gas system of the M4 is prone to fouling, and when that fouling gets bad enough, the gun stops working. There are far more reliable systems out there, even using the AR as a base, such as piston guns by POF and HK.
Yes, there are better loads for the 5.56 caliber than the standard M855, but the fact remains that the 5.56 is a first-generation AR cartridge and there is plenty of room for improvement. The 6.5 Grendal, 6.8 SPC and others ares superior to the 5.56 in almost every way, other than the number of rounds that can be carried.
The M4/M16 family of weapons isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination, but there is significant room for improvement in a four-decade-old design of both the gas system and the choice of cartridge, and considering the available tech, a complete ground-up approach may be warranted.
As for Army small arms procurement of general issue rifles/carbines, their track record over the past 150 years has been one I would not brag about.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 06, 2007 07:47 PM (HcgFD)
10
I am no weapons expert. I just remember the M16 fouling and the handgaurd pinching and twisting. That is the extent of my gripes from personal knowledge.
I have been shown the poor penetration of the round. Is this true or significant. I would say yes.
Would I rather be protected by a US soldier or Marine with an M16/M4 or an Iraqi with an AK47? There is no question I am with our soldiers and Marines. I simply think that we can do much better.
Posted by: Mekan at October 06, 2007 09:20 PM (mzFPd)
11
The Army Times has an interesting article on the M4 and the HK 416. I don't pretend to understand all contained within or that the article is the last word on USA battle rifle options, but it is informative.
But if the firearm requires as much maintenence as the article indicates, then equipping Iraqi Police and Army with it might be be open to legitimate debate.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/atCarbine070219/
Posted by: iconoclast at October 07, 2007 05:21 PM (1obL1)
12
Very interesting article indeed, Iconoclast.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 11:59 PM (TBuKI)
13
One additional factor no one's yet mentioned is that many Iraqis are already familiar with the AK, which cannot be said for American weapons.
Posted by: mwl at October 08, 2007 11:54 AM (DSeW+)
14
very timely thread. in today's wsj was an article on equipping the Iraqi Army with M-16's. Many of the points brought out here were brought up in the article as well.
Plan to Sell Iraqis M-16s
Triggers New Controversy
some interesting comments from a variety of sources in-country.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 08, 2007 02:03 PM (TzLpv)
15
Hmmmm.
@ Kevin
"I'm amazed at how the 400-lb-gun-show-habitué community remains bitterly down on US weapons. "
I spent a few years as a US Marine rifleman and M-60 machinegunner. And yeah I'm one of those that despise the M-16 and all of it's variants.
A rifle incapable of dealing with grit and sand is useless. The fact of the matter is the close tolerances between the bolt carrier group and the receiver makes it imperative for any rifleman to carry around brushes to clean out the rifle. Frankly I don't know how many times I've had to run around sand, dirt and grit and then have to partially disassemble the rifle in order to clean the bolt carrier group.
Additionally the bolt carrier group is far too light to carry forth the energy from the recoil buffer in order to drive the round home and lock the bolt ... which of course resulted in the A1 model where you had the bolt carrier assist.
Then you've got the gas tube instead of a recoil piston. So instead of a piston that forces back the bolt carrier group, thereby starting the reloading cycle, you've got hot carbon-laced gases flowing through the bolt carrier group which both increases the amount of carbon fouling of the bolt carrier group and vastly increases the temperature of the bolt carrier group. And because of the close tolerances the combination of airborne grit, carbon-fouling and temperature induced expansion of the bolt carrier group and the receiver, you end up with a rifle that basically stops going "bang".
Now with a recoil tube the carbon-fouling would occur mostly at the muzzle end as the combustion gases would impact the recoil piston at the muzzle end with the force of these tapped gases traveling back to re-cock the rifle. No transmission of heat or carbon-fouling.
...
So what would be my preferred battle rifle? The AR-18. I owned the civilian model, the AR-180, and I loved it. Tough, heavy-ass piece of steel for the bolt carrier, gas piston, folding stock. It ate any ammo without problems. Fouling was minimal and shot beautifully.
Posted by: memomachine at October 09, 2007 02:42 PM (3pvQO)
16
Who else doesn't like the M-16?
Its co-designer, Jim Sullivan: http://www.P ... B ... S.org/newshour/bb/military/july-dec07/rifles_09-24.html
Another "400-lb gun-show habitue," no doubt.
Posted by: kabosh at October 09, 2007 05:14 PM (tVsuX)
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Blimps of War
Yep, you read that right, and no, Rosie O Donnell didn't have a change of heart.
Via MNC-I Press Release.
KALSU, Iraq - A helium blimp provided Coalition Forces the viewpoint to see four insurgents responsible for a roadside bomb attack Sept. 30.
The camera located inside the AEROSTAT, a helium blimp used for aerial surveillance, allowed forces to identify the location of the men who attacked a Coalition convoy southeast of Iskandariyah.
"This engagement was tailor-made for the AEROSTAT," said 1st Lt. Vitaly Gelfgat of Princeton, N.J. "We saw the blast, found the insurgents responsible and then responded with the necessary force."
This was the second kinetic action that was initiated by AEROSTAT surveillance.
"The mission of the AEROSTAT is to monitor roads, impact areas, provide battle damage assessments and give constant aerial surveillance for defensive purposes," said Sgt. Reuben Carrington of Cabot, Ark.
This multi-million dollar blimp is equipped with a specialized camera that allows its user to see a full 360 degrees with distances ranging from 10 meters to several kilometers 24 hours a day.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
I hope that this does not mean that the US response to the insurgents is to send out soldiers as decoys and then respond. I would seem better to use the techniques of WWI in the area and do night-killer patrols. If the decoy method is all they are doing then things are indeed bad.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 05, 2007 10:04 AM (G5i3t)
2
Hah...actually, I was going to say "everything old is new again".
Posted by: kat-missouri at October 05, 2007 04:27 PM (io+Si)
3
David, I may be dense, but where in the post does it mention sending soldiers out purely as decoys?
Ya know, the Coalition convoy that was attacked might have been something other than a decoy, like, say, perhaps, a real convoy transporting something to where it was needed?
Clearly, you're highly predisposed to automatically believe the worst about our armed forces.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 08:38 PM (6c3XF)
4
Poor insurgents,
no where to run, nowhere to hide.
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr at October 05, 2007 09:24 PM (2wI6h)
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Madhi Army Martyrdom Successful
When a heavily-armed, air-supported U.S. Army unit comes to town, it is rarely in your best interests to fire on them unless entering the afterlife is your goal:
U.S. forces killed at least 25 members of a rogue Shiite militia in a heavy firefight early Friday, the military said.
The troops were targeting a militia commander believed to be associated with members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards' Quds Force and responsible for moving weapons from Iran into Baghdad, the military said.
A group of men opened fire on the U.S. soldiers with assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, and at least one man was carrying what appeared to be an anti-aircraft weapon, the military said. Two buildings were destroyed and at least 25 people were killed in the ensuing battle.
U.S. aircraft repeatedly bombed the Shiite section of Khalis, about 50 miles north of Baghdad, according to an Iraqi army official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information. At least 17 were killed, 27 were wounded and eight others were missing, he said.
You'll note that groups associated with Iran's Quds Force and their smuggling networks have been repeatedly hammered since the start of the "surge," and that as a result, attacks on coalition forces with EFPs have dropped significantly.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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October 04, 2007
Still Waiting
Just how long does it take to pen a retraction?
I only ask because it's been roughly a month since
The New Republic had their first solid chance to interview Scott Thomas Beauchamp since he returned from duty at COP Ellis.
Since then, he's been online--hence, available--at least several days every week, including today. Beauchamp even had time to talk with
Laughing Wolf from Blackfive as recently as September 30. Why not TNR?
Is Scott not talking to Franklin Foer, or is Franklin Foer simply unwilling to print what Scott has to say?
Update: More from
Michelle Malkin.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
My guess is that Foer has just decided he is not going to talk about this anymore in the hopes that people will just forget. He knows that his liberal fanbase will stay with him no matter what and he doesn't care a bit what anyone else thinks about him or the TNR at this point.
TNR is a joke no matter what Foer does and perhaps he knows it.
Posted by: NSC at October 05, 2007 06:53 AM (oXi5C)
2
Aren't we still waiting on John Kerry to release some documents he promised way back when?
Aren't we still waiting on CBS to acknowledge the fake Vietnam Vets it used in its reports oh-so-many years ago?
Can't somebody just pretend like the truth matters?
Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at October 05, 2007 06:54 AM (8F+iI)
3
NSC is spot on. The NR knows attention will flag as time goes on. Nobody talks about the Glass incident anymore, except maybe in journalism schools. And yes, the magazine knows where its constituency lies, The Moveon.org and Daily Kos fans.
Posted by: Banjo at October 05, 2007 07:45 AM (1DQ52)
4
It's not going to happen. We all know it. They have no incentive to recant. The base of their readership subscribes to the same "larger narrative" they do; therefore they have nothing to lose by not retracting the stories.
Posted by: T.Ferg at October 05, 2007 08:41 AM (2YVh7)
5
"Aren't we still waiting on John Kerry to release some documents he promised way back when?"
And lots of liberal pundits and journalists keep telling us that he DID release those records. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they start telling us that Scott Thomas Beauchamp's "diary" was the absolute truth...which will please the black propagandists at TNR.
Posted by: pst314 at October 05, 2007 08:51 AM (OA547)
6
beauchamp was right and we all know the army is covering up to keep the sheeple from realizing how many deviants are in the army
you conservanuts are swiftboating a true hero just like you did kerry
Posted by: FromTheLeft at October 05, 2007 09:03 AM (5dzyd)
7
What's up with that Laughing Wolf interview? Blackfive asserts there is a point to it, beyond announcing that Beauchamp can speak to strangers in the media, even if he won't allow his remarks to be on the record.
I have no doubt Beauchamp has personal charm, most con artists do, and I wouldn't expect his to be treated less than civilly by LW,
but cheezit crackers, there was way too much bonhomie displqyed there for my taste, with such a vague report of the their little chat.
Posted by: SarahW at October 05, 2007 09:09 AM (wF/xI)
8
"beauchamp was right and we all know the army is covering up to keep the sheeple from realizing how many deviants are in the army"
"you conservanuts are swiftboating a true hero just like you did kerry"
STB and Kerry got just what they deserved - condemnation from their military brethren for talking BS about their respective wars in order to make themselves look good.
Posted by: SShiell at October 05, 2007 09:13 AM (8UXyu)
9
I'm still waiting for CBS to retract the Dan Rather/GWBush TANG story.
They had the internal investigation that showed it was a fraud, fired a lot of people and canceled 60 Minutes II - but they never retracted the story.
Posted by: dsinope at October 05, 2007 09:44 AM (iENrQ)
10
A procedural point: Could we please agree not to take seriously any post containing the word "sheeple"?
Posted by: notalawyer at October 05, 2007 10:16 AM (Qj9TL)
11
Gee. This means that outside of men's toilets, where a few men go "looking" for sex; but never saying a word ...
We have a PUBLICATION! TNR! Showing us how this "trick is done."
Perhaps Foer, who expects a big bonus check at Christmas, just runs his hands under his desk?
We also know Elspeth Reeves, Beauchamp's wife. And, former head-checker at TNR, has been fired.
Does this mean TNR stays silent? Or are there calls that have gone out FORBIDDING anyone to bid on a Beauchamp book? If so, Beauchamp's best bet would be to "talk" to Matt Drudge.
Or even better. Drudge says he's "coming back to radio." But not on Sunday nights. More likely during the DAYTIME. And, what if he could get Beauchamp, out of the army ... if that date's close enough ... Up on his new/next show? I think people would listen.
And, I think TNR reduced itself to a piece of crap. (Befitting of the silences you get in men's public restrooms.) Where, according to Judge Porter's Opinion; not only was Larry Craig found GUILTY, and just "playing political tricks." After spending 36-minutes, total, in his stall. He didn't even flush.
Those are the new affirmative action parameters.
While the GOP still can't find leadership skills, anywhere. (Well, that's the price you've been paying, electing people who "never heard of ROE." Or, who promised to overturn one of our laws.)
No wonder we're at the political "crack." Where things divide between parties. And, neither party evokes trust.
Someday? Someone will produce a needle. ANd, stick it into all the floating gas bags.
Posted by: Carol Herman at October 05, 2007 11:54 AM (/iqmM)
12
Sheeple. Hahahahahahaha. Every time someone uses that word (other than quoting someone else) I am struck by the absolute lack of intelligence displayed by the user. It's wonderful and horrible all at the same time.
Posted by: T.Ferg at October 05, 2007 01:33 PM (2YVh7)
13
Well, anyone that thinks that Beauchamp was telling the truth has problems in the intelligence department anyway.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 06:57 PM (6c3XF)
14
banjo, its obvious you don't read much Kos or Moveon.org- They detest TNR for being to "centrist" and "pragmatic" and scorn them for being so-called "serious" Democrats.
The constantly rip on Foer and Co. To the Kos Krowd, they are hand in glove with the DNC and they despise the DNC.
Posted by: docwweasel at October 05, 2007 09:58 PM (aj6WF)
15
you people just beleive whatever the bush-halliburton-blackwater military-industrial complex tells you don't you? thats why you are sheeple, you don't think for yourselfs.
Posted by: FromTheLeft at October 05, 2007 10:11 PM (5dzyd)
16
Kudos for calling for more transparency from TNR.
But how about calling for the release of that super-secret signed and sworn statement that proves Beauchamp's a fraud, too, huh?
Or should we just take that for granted, like TNR took for granted that Beauchamp was being truthful?
Also...to the commenter who claimed Elspeth Reeves was fired from TNR...
Does leaving at the end of your internship qualify as being fired? Are we going to "fire" George W. Bush in Jan of 09?
Kinda fast and loose with the facts, aren't we? And doesn't that remind you of someone?
Posted by: James at October 06, 2007 07:29 AM (zdpq+)
17
James, Beauchamp signed at least two statements, and we know he was deceptive with the first one. As for the release of his statement, only he can authorize that, and he rather obviously has not done so at this time.
As for Reeve, how long was her internship? most are for a semester or for a year... she started no later than April of '06, and then was with TNR until at least the end of July of this year when Robert McGee was fired, and may have been still employed as late as early September. Kind of an odd period of time.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 06, 2007 08:21 AM (HcgFD)
18
So what's with all these guys that need their women to arrange their career-enhancing (or ending) moves?
Plame/Wilson.
Greenspan/Mitchell.
Beauchamp/Reeve.
Rather/Mapes. double-heh.
Clinton/Clinton. Interchangeable hehs.
Edwards.
Samson/Delilah.
Hmmmm...
Posted by: Joan of Argghh! at October 06, 2007 09:34 AM (8F+iI)
19
Seems James is desperately trying to blame the Army for something.
If they don't release Beauchamp's statement, as they legally cannot do under the law, then he blasts them for withholding it.
If they do release Beauchamp's statement, he'll accuse them of breaking the very same law that he is now advocating they ignore.
[shaking head sadly] So typical. So predictable.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 10:26 AM (6c3XF)
20
CY, My point about the unreleased sworn statement is this. Even if Beauchamp recanted with his own signature, no one (beyond himself and the army, presumably) has seen it, so NO ONE can say what it contains. It may say he lied. It may say something else.
We just don't know.
I would call an unreleased sworn statement like that convincing evidence if it was a) convincing and b) evidence.
(It should be noted that I'm not suggesting Beauchamp is exonerated because his statement hasn't been released. Just that we stick to what we know, and call our speculation what it is: speculation.)
Posted by: James at October 06, 2007 10:15 PM (yhxlt)
21
James, we know for a fact he did not recant in his statement. I know that via conversations with his superior officers.
His statement probably accepts responsibility for being the author, and states that he can't provide support for his allegations. I think it will pretty much "plead the fifth," but it was never all that important, anyway. Since when do we rely on an admission of guilt to determine guilt during the course of an investigation? We don't. We go for the facts to build a case.
In this instance, since they brought the changes, TNR/Beauchamp have to prove that the three anecdotes in "Shock Troops" were true. That have utterly failed to do so.
Instead, we have statements from TNR admitting that the burned woman story was incorrect in both date and time, and the statements of numerous military and civilian personnel denying that such a woman was ever at either base.
We have Major Cross' investigation concluding categorically that the COP Ellis "skull" story was false as well, and I want to say Beauchamp's platoon wasn't even involved in that part of the construction effort, but I'll have to verify that.
We also know that the "dog-hunting" was false, as every Bradley driver and commander in the company was interviewed and said so, and additionally, because a representative of BAE systems that manufactures the vehicle says that Bradley's can't do what is described, which many veteran Bradley crewman have also stated emphatically.
I've also conclusively shown elements of his other stories are completely false as well. Scott Beauchamp isn't just a liar, he's a very bad one.
Worse than Beauchamp, however, is TNR Editor Franklin Foer. For has run either a rigged or massively incompetent investigation, and has purposefully refused to release information he has gathered that undermines Beauchamp's story. I know because I've uncovered some of what he's sitting on.
That abuse of his readership's trust is far worse than Beauchamp's lies, in my opinion.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 06, 2007 10:47 PM (HcgFD)
22
Very good point, CY. If we waited for a signed confession before declaring someone guilty, we'd have a lot of criminals wandering the streets.
Once again, the left is proposing a double standard. One standard for Beauchamp, another for everyone else.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 10:31 AM (6c3XF)
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Liberal Values
Just under 1 in 5 Democrats favors defeat in Iraq. And if that isn't bad enough, another 20-percent of Democrats "don't know" if the world would be better off with a defeat.
I never thought I'd see the day that 39-percent of Democrats were either in favor of, or "don't know" if the world would be better off if we lost a war that would essentially destroy a fledgling democracy.
They call themselves "Democrats," but they seem to think we'd be better off with one less democracy. Perhaps it is time they consider a party name change to something more in line with their beliefs.
Whatever these defeatists re-brand themselves, they should keep their mascot.
It fits.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Posted by: john bryan at October 04, 2007 07:32 PM (v9dwy)
2
Most democrats don't want defeat CY, but they do want the war to end and the American people would like to see the real terrorists responsible for 9/11 to be captured or killed.
Over time, it has become more widely accepted that this war was for nothing more than control of the region for energy resources. More and more respected authorities have come out, Alan Greenspan as another late example. It has very little to do with religion and the popluar term "terrorism", though these are some common themes history has used to justify war many times.
Also, It is hard for a logical person to believe this administration is trying to protect us with this war, when we fail to protect our own borders and Bush endorsed the idea of giving our ports to Dubai? How easy it still is for someone to pass thru our borders under the current conditions. God forbid, but it is a miracle nothing has happened in the states since 9/11.
All this said, it is a tough pill to swallow, the Bush notion for the Iraq war. It does not sit well, and you are now in the minority of public opinion.
As I have said a couple times now, politics is politics concerning the tough talk for or against the war. We're not leaving, even if Democrats take the office which seems likely. There is a lot of time between now and November 2008. Democrats will "re-deploy", which does not mean pulling out of Iraq. This definition will gradually change over time. It already has changed.
Energy controls our government, both sides of the fence.
Posted by: John Bryan at October 04, 2007 07:58 PM (v9dwy)
3
I have to believe that most of that plurality is simply against any thought that Bush might succeed in Iraq. That they simply wish to see Bush (the "neocons", the Christian Right, Halliburton, whatever) defeated. And that a defeat for those evil groups will be good for the world.
And that on January 2, 2009 with a Clinton presidency that that ~40% would drop to under 10%.
Gosh, I really hope they don't really think a victory for the anti-democratic forces in Iraq would be good for everyone.
Gulp.
SMG
Posted by: SteveMG at October 04, 2007 07:59 PM (W+fzY)
4
John Bryan, one question.
You state:
Democrats will "re-deploy", which does not mean pulling out of Iraq.
Where, specifically, will the Democrats "re-deploy" our troops to?
If in Iraq, then why call it a "re-deployment"?
If out of Iraq, then that is, by definition, pulling out of Iraq.
And where are you going to put them so that they can get back into Iraq in time to head off any trouble? Saudi Arabia? May I remind you that American troops stationed in Saudi Arabia are one of the things that Bin Ladin himself stated was one of the reasons for the 9/11 attack? Syria? Jordan? Lebanon? Iran? Where ya gonna put them?
In short, basing the troops in any Middle Eastern country would create the same issues that we face in Iraq: Foreign terrorists seeking to kill Americans will attack them, the troops will respond, and there we go all over again. Unless the Dems are gonna handcuff the troops with idiotic rules of engagement like they did in Somalia... that turned out good, didn't it?
Basing the troops outside the Middle East will mean they'll be too darned far away to actually do anything, so they might as well be sent home.
To summarize: you're spinning desperately, and I, for one, am not buying it.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 08:09 PM (6c3XF)
5
they should rename themselves the Baath Party.
Posted by: Reliapundit at October 04, 2007 08:10 PM (YtQYQ)
6
Bush endorsed the idea of giving our ports to Dubai?
Oy. Giving our ports to Dubai.
It is impossible - impossible - to engage in a mature discussion with someone who believes that Bush wanted to just hand over all our ports to Dubai.
In reality, the deal would have allowed the current renter of some of the terminals or stevedore operations at some of our ports to be purchased by a company owned by the government of Dubai.
No ports would be sold. No terminals would be sold. Not a single piece of property of the US would be sold.
Oy.
SMG
Posted by: SteveMG at October 04, 2007 08:25 PM (W+fzY)
7
Over time, it has become more widely accepted that this war was for nothing more than control of the region for energy resources.
There's the problem right there: stupidity and strategic naivete becoming "widely accepted."
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at October 04, 2007 08:57 PM (Ohkx7)
8
control of the region for energy resources.
Control by who?
The US presence in the region is prevent one nation from stopping the free flow of oil through the Persian Gulf.
No one will control the energy resources of the region except for the countries that own the energy.
Which they will sell for billions of dollars.
It is an odd argument to make that the US invaded Iraq for its oil when we will be paying Iraq billions for that oil.
Some empire.
SMG
Posted by: SteveMG at October 04, 2007 09:02 PM (W+fzY)
9
All America has ever asked for from the countries we've fought in was a spot to bury those that died for that nation's freedom.
If that's an "empire," then up must be down, black must be white, and hot must be cold.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 09:55 PM (6c3XF)
10
The Democrat party is clearly are the party of treason. They are uneducated scum. Would they prefer Saddam to still be in power building WMD, practising genocide and funding international terrorism? Would they be happier if Iraq was not now a free democracy and an ally against al-Qaida? The joy of seeing a free and stable Iraq will be rivaled only by seeing the unhappiness of these un-American slime.
It begs the question, where were these traitorous idiots on 9/11.?
I noticed today that that ugly bastard Obama stopped wearing his flag pin. Way to piss on the 9/11 victims.
Piss on the racist Peace movement.
Can I question their patriotism now?
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrr. at October 04, 2007 10:15 PM (2wI6h)
11
Democrats are invested in American defeat.I cannot recall anytime in history where a US Military defeat would aid any US political party. Until now. Its not just Iraq. Dems have been Anti Wiretap. Anti Profiling. Anti Fence. Anti John Doe Amendment .Anti Swift Financial Tracking of Terrorist money. You name a method used to defend Americans and Dems are ANTI.
Posted by: Dennis D at October 04, 2007 10:18 PM (y9UWN)
12
Can I question their patriotism now?
No.
One cannot question that which does not exist.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 10:55 PM (6c3XF)
13
I think Rush says it best when he says, "A glittering jewel of monumental ignorance."
Keep drinking the kool-aid Mr. Bryan.
Posted by: Conservative CBU at October 05, 2007 02:17 AM (La7YV)
14
That poll just shows once again that Democrats are traitors. Period.
Our founding fathers knew what to do with them, but what kind of trouble could you get into for tarring and feathering a liberal opinion-leader and driving him around town in the back of your truck?
Posted by: Smarty at October 05, 2007 07:45 AM (+jnQm)
15
My guess is those Democrats hankering for defeat are the grievance community. They think those resources being spent on the military would be put to better use redressing racial, sexual, economic and any other inequality the mind can conceive. See Whoopi Goldberg for a complete list.
Posted by: Banjo at October 05, 2007 07:51 AM (1DQ52)
16
Its not that the left and democrats want us to lose, its that they think we have ALREADY lost. Moreso, I suspect many of them believe that not only is winning CURRENTLY impossible, but that we had NEVER been capable of winning in Iraq from day one.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 05, 2007 08:10 AM (oC8nQ)
17
"Its not that the left and democrats want us to lose, its that they think we have ALREADY lost. Moreso, I suspect many of them believe that not only is winning CURRENTLY impossible, but that we had NEVER been capable of winning in Iraq from day one.
So they are either dismally STUPID, if they believe the above, or TRAITOR SCUM, if as the poll suggests 40% do not think the world will be better off if the free people of Iraq beat al Qaida and Iran.
Not good options
Posted by: Grrrrrrrrrrr at October 05, 2007 09:48 AM (gkobM)
18
John Bryan, Greenspan did not come out and say that the real reason for the war was for oil. He came out and made that explicitly clear. Maybe you don't hear so good. He said that in his view, we should have done it for the oil, not that we did do it for the oil. Also, 39% of the democrats are not sure if it would be good if the US wins in Iraq. Spin it any way you want, that is unpatriotic. The rest want us out but don't equate that to loosing. So that 60% is naive. 39% unpatriotic, 60% naive. Yah, let's have them run the country.
Posted by: Tim at October 05, 2007 04:02 PM (04Ijt)
19
Slow on the uptake, CY....
I've been referring to them as the Copperheads for at least a year.
Posted by: SDN at October 06, 2007 08:31 PM (Hg2oD)
20
That's me... slow. ;-)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 06, 2007 08:36 PM (HcgFD)
21
Glad to be on the same page as you, CY. :-)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 08:44 PM (6c3XF)
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VIDEO: Blackwater Chopper Evacs Polish Ambassador after IED Attack
Via
LiveLeak.com, those are Blackwater USA personnel evacuating the wounded Polish ambassador to Iraq after his convoy was hit by
at least two IEDs. Polish security guard, Bartosz Orzechowski and an unnamed Iraqi civilian died in the attack.
Blackwater didn't fire a shot during this mission, as shocking as that may be to some. It is one of
at least 15,805 Blackwater USA missions where shots were not fired. I'm not justifying prior behavior, just attempting to point out the behavior that is more typical.
As for the atypical missions such as the recent disastrous shooting at Nisoor Square, Congress is
taking steps to rectify deficiencies under current law that some argue makes private security contractors immune from prosecution.
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The UCMJ regarding contractors was altered in January 2007 to say that UCMJ action could be taken against contractors "In time of declared war or a contigency operation, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field." I know many people read this to mean because they work for the Department of State, Blackwater isn't covered, but to me that seems like a very narrow interpetation of the law. Maybe I am wrong, but I think if the military wanted to press UCMJ charges against Blackwater, they would have every right to do so under current law.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 04, 2007 02:39 PM (oC8nQ)
2
the left/msm/dems are trying to turn blackwater into this cycles abu graihb.
Posted by: reliapundit at October 04, 2007 08:15 PM (YtQYQ)
3
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 10/05/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 05, 2007 12:05 PM (gIAM9)
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Attempting to Force Others To Fast For Your Cause?
Desperate to salvage a defeat in Iraq before progress becomes too obvious for the professional media to contain, some leftists have decided on last ditch effort via direct action.
Due to the projected shortage in wait staff, those of you in college towns should plan to "dine in" on
October 17.
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This could be even more effective than the middle-aged women in Marin County who laid down naked in the weeds to spell out PEACE for a photographer.
Posted by: Banjo at October 04, 2007 08:53 AM (1DQ52)
2
Yawn.
Algore's global concert all over again. Lotta hype, but nothing will be changed, except the public's perception of the people who take part.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 09:07 AM (6c3XF)
3
Does anyone really think this is going to catch on big and disrupt most people from their daily routines?
Posted by: T.Ferg at October 04, 2007 09:13 AM (2YVh7)
4
I wonder if they have to tell there boss they're taking the day off. Kinda defeats the whole point, but if they don't they will just get fired. Well I guess finding a new job at Arby's isn't too hard.
Posted by: Justin B. at October 04, 2007 09:27 AM (Rd4s4)
5
If it means all the Leftist web sites and the MSM take the day off too, I say go for it.
Posted by: Lord Whorfin at October 04, 2007 10:08 AM (qybSO)
6
Well, I just enjoyed a rare mid-afternoon dish of fudge brownie ice cream to consume some of those calorie offsets the left is so kind to offer.
Anything we can do to keep America calorie-neutral!
Posted by: redherkey at October 04, 2007 01:30 PM (kjqFg)
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 04, 2007 02:15 PM (0pZel)
8
Typical commies. Sorry to ask but is this the second year of "Enough Is Enough" or still the first, I have lost track.
Posted by: Dusty at October 04, 2007 03:48 PM (1Lzs1)
9
...so is this going to be a real, no food at all, IRA-thug-in-an-English-prison class fast? Or are we talking a Mother Sheehan, I'm-fasting-so-pass-me-another-designer-fruit-smoothie, bullfast?
And if the former, is there any way we can convince them to extend the duration for about ten days?
Posted by: DaveP. at October 04, 2007 06:37 PM (mjjwA)
10
Justin, if they do lose their job, it'll all be Bush's fault.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 06:44 PM (6c3XF)
11
Love the list of generals he cites..(Gen)"Lamar Odom".
Damn, A general that has some rebounding skillz! Yo! A true renaissance man!
Posted by: MunDane at October 04, 2007 07:28 PM (Meq0P)
12
Elected democrats will stay home? Kool....
Posted by: 1sttofight at October 04, 2007 08:10 PM (dyn92)
13
Starbucks will probably go out of business.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 09:02 PM (6c3XF)
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October 03, 2007
Somewhere in Time
It becomes more apparent every day that the reactionary progressive Democrats that pinned their hopes of a future ascendancy upon a defeat in Iraq are psychologically unable to come to grips with the reality on the ground in that nation.
This was demonstrated again today by Senator Russ Feingold in the
Huffington Post:
Over in Iraq, our troops get up every day and risk their lives in the middle of an Iraqi civil war. They have to do their job, no matter what the risk, and no matter what the cost. They do what they are asked to do...and so should Congress. Congress's job right now should be to bring our troops home safely, and we can't turn away from this issue just because it's tough going. The only way we will ever get our troops out is by putting constant pressure on supporters of this disastrous war. Let's make them vote again and again, so that they have to go back home and explain why they keep voting to keep our troops in Iraq. When they feel the heat for their vote, that's when they will change their vote, and that's how we will bring our troops home.
I have news that will no doubt come as an absolute surprise to Senator Feingold: the Iraqi civil war never materialized.
As a matter of fact, Iraqi Prime Minster Nouri al-Maliki formally stated that
even the threat of a civil war in Iraq
has been averted. Like many Democrats, Feingold seems mired in a past that could have been, instead of the reality of what Iraq is today.
al Qaeda bombers
intended to trigger a civil war with the bombing of the revered al-Askari "Golden Dome" Mosque in Samarra in February of 2006, but though nearly 200 hundred people were killed in retaliatory strikes in the days that followed, Shia leaders refused to be pulled into a full-scale civil war. The civil war was trumpeted as about to happen or happening by Democrats and in the press, but despite these constant calls and hype here in America, it simply never occurred (as opposed to the Palestinian Civil War in Gaza, which the media stubbornly
refused to admit there was a civil war until it was all but over).
Nor does Feingold seem to have a grasp of what American voters signified in the 2006 elections:
The message from the voters last November was clear -- safely redeploy our troops out of Iraq.
Actually, what voters indicated they wanted in exit polls and interviews after the election was a
change in our Iraqi policy. They got that, and the change they got was immediate.
One day after the 2006 midterm elections, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
stepped down and was replaced by Robert Gates.
In January, just two months later, President Bush nominated General David Petraeus to become the commanding general of all American forces in Iraq, and was unanimously confirmed to that postion by the Senate after testifying about the revised counterinsurgency (COIN) doctrine he supported implementing, including how he would use a "surge" of troops already planned for Iraq before his nomination. The American people got precisely what they wanted--a change in strategy--even if it wasn't the defeatist strategy of withdrawal favored by Feingold and others.
But Feingold, safe in his own community-based reality, continues:
Telling ourselves "we don't have the votes now, so what's the point" doesn't cut it. I understand that we may not get to 67 or 60 or even 50 votes on Feingold-Reid right now. But remember, when I first proposed that Congress use its constitutional power of the purse to end the war, support was scarce at best. Now, the majority of Senate Democrats, including our leadership and presidential candidates, are firm supporters. If we give in to the defeatist "we don't have the votes" attitude, we're playing right into the hands of the president and supporters of his war who cannot wait for the day they don't have to talk about Iraq. If supporters of this war are going to vote to keep our troops in a situation that is hurting our military as well as our national security, they should be prepared to defend it every day.
The calendar tells us it is October 3, 2007.
Even after the assassination of Sheik Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha, the "Awakening" movement continues to spread from al Anbar across Iraq. In
police patrols in Fallujah and in
food drops in Ramadi, we see American Marines patrolling with police and militiamen that were once former insurgents, but who now see their hope for the future in political reconciliation instead of war.
The same has occurred in Diyala, where 1920 Revolutionary Brigades fighters--former insurgents--now
go out on patrol with the U.S. Army.
Diyalal Province, Iraq: U.S. Army M-1 tank behind 1920s fighters heading back to their neighborhood.
(Photo courtesy of Michael Yon)
Just yesterday, Bartle Bull published an essay in the U.K.
Prospect Magazine, offering the clear picture of the actual state of the war in Iraq, a reality that Feingold and his fellow defeatists would rather ignore. He follows up today in the
Wall Street Journal with a variation of the same theme,
The Realignment of Iraq.
Feingold goes on to mutter though the rest of his "
Vote on Iraq Again and Again," sounding very much like a threadbare street-corner shouter as he insists that we look at his shaded remembrance of November of 2006, instead of the reality of October, 2007.
He, like Harry "the war is lost" Reid in the Senate, and Nancy Pelosi and John Murtha in the House and their allies, are desperate to salvage at least the appearance of a defeat from a war that the Iraqi people and embedded journalists all seem to understand is still on-going, but quite possibly
already decided.
The national media, with fewer car bombs to exploit or pending possible nightmare scenarios to trumpet, are quiet slipping Iraq out of the spotlight. "If it bleeds, it leads," has always been the newsroom battle-cry, but the corollary that peace doesn’t sell papers, and so it doesn't fill them.
The war in Iraq is quietly becoming the peace-keeping and nation-building operation for an ally, and yet Democrats still try to call it a quagmire and ignore the dramatic successes of the past year. One must wonder how much longer Democrats can continue to pretend we are at another place in time, and how much longer they can continue to cheer for defeat in a war all but won.
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reactionary progressive Democrats
Ah, the first attempts at turning "progressive" into a bad word. I was wondering when that was going to happen. Here's the bad news, though: if you guys really latch onto "progressive" and turn it into the epithet of choice for Lefties, we'll just go back to "liberal."
Sometimes you can't win for losing.
Posted by: nunaim at October 03, 2007 02:48 PM (22/Qe)
2
good analysis CY. I find myself looking to your website more and more for a fairly balanced--and clearly opinionated--analysis such as you provide in your spare time. The inane comments of trolls notwithstanding, your comments forum also provides a wealth of relevant information on the topic.
I differ with you, however, on your opinion that the war might already be decided. Democrats can always manage to pull defeat from victory--look at Vietnam and their successful termination of aide to S. Vietname, which was rapidly followed by the tanks of Hanoi driving into Saigon.
As for the nostrum "if it bleeds, it leads", I think the blood needed to lead is innocent and/or American blood. There seems to be a fair amount of AQ and Iranian blood being spilled recently, but we certainly don't see that trumpeted on front pages on the evening news.
Posted by: iconoclast at October 03, 2007 03:36 PM (TzLpv)
3
Here's a question for nunaims and other progressive, liberal anti-war types.
The Dems currently control the House and the Senate.
Why don't they just vote to de-fund the war?
You know, "Here's the FY2008 Defense Authorization. NO money may be spent on operations in Iraq, other than that pursuant to withdrawing the troops.
US troops must be withdrawn by January 1, 2008 (or February 14, or pick any date."
Surely, with control of the House and Senate, and with the mandate that SEN Feingold mentions, the Dems could do this?
Posted by: Lurking Observer at October 03, 2007 04:21 PM (/ZD7V)
4
It is a quagmire, as we can't leave and won't be able to leave for quite a while.. unless we want to see happen country-wide what happened in Basra when the Brits pulled out.
Posted by: stevesturm at October 03, 2007 05:38 PM (XBWtm)
5
Of course, progressives can just revert to their true name: socialist. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 03, 2007 05:46 PM (VOA2U)
6
Nah, they run from that one.
Take the junior Senator from Vermont. What party is he? Why is he consistently referred to as "independent"?
(For those who are unaware, the junior Senator from VT, Bernie Sanders, is a self-described Socialist.)
Posted by: Lurking Observer at October 03, 2007 06:01 PM (/ZD7V)
7
Stevesturm demonstrates that delusions on Iraq are not limited to Congress.
Earth to Steve: General Petraeus has announced that troops could start coming home in a couple of months.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 07:02 PM (ZPYB9)
8
The liberal -- cough -- progressive agenda is to (a) bring the troops back home and (b) eliminate the don't ask, don't tell oppression that limits the number of gays in the military.
Posted by: Banjo at October 03, 2007 09:11 PM (1DQ52)
9
The liberal -- cough -- progressive agenda is to (a) bring the troops back home and (b) eliminate the don't ask, don't tell oppression that limits the number of gays in the military.
Yes, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. The whole smash. Those two things are all we want in the world.
Also: is this supposed to be a dig at Progriberals, or something? Those are two good things.
Posted by: nunaim at October 03, 2007 09:22 PM (RVNk2)
10
Nunaim, conservatives want to bring the troops home too.
The difference is, we want to bring them home (a) as victors, and (b) when removing troops won't cause a downward spiral in Iraq and the Middle East in general.
The members of the Party of the Donkey in Congress, on the other hand, want to bring them home right this instant, and they don't seem to give a darn how many Iraqis die after a premature American pullout.
I know you're gonna dispute that, so I should warn you right now that I am gonna demand evidence for whatever you claim, and not from sites like DailyKos. So ya might as well provide links with your first reply to me. That saves time and bandwidth, and also keeps you from looking like a person who doesn't read messages.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 09:34 PM (ZPYB9)
11
I know you're gonna dispute that, so I should warn you right now that I am gonna demand evidence for whatever you claim, and not from sites like DailyKos. So ya might as well provide links with your first reply to me.
A: How the hell do you know what I'm going to do?
B: Who the hell died and made you boss?
Talk about pompous...
Posted by: nunaim at October 03, 2007 09:44 PM (RVNk2)
12
So, you are not disputing that the Party of the Donkey in Congress doesn't give a hoot how many Iraqis are killed by a premature withdrawal?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 10:08 PM (ZPYB9)
13
So, you are not disputing that the Party of the Donkey in Congress doesn't give a hoot how many Iraqis are killed by a premature withdrawal?
Incorrect. I'm saying that I have no idea what opinion they all have on that wingnut meme.
Posted by: nunaim at October 03, 2007 10:43 PM (RVNk2)
14
iraq had NOTHING to do with the 2006 results.
foleygate, maccaccagate and abramoffgate did.
all exploded out of proportion by the MSM.
Posted by: reliapundit at October 03, 2007 10:48 PM (4/hbO)
15
Well, let's look at it logically, nunaim.
1) It's been admitted, even by such anti-war publications as the New York Times, that a premature US withdrawal could lead to genocide.
2) The members of the Party of the Donkey in Congress are trying their best to force a premature US withdrawal, their latest attempt focusing on cutting off funding (as they did in Vietnam).
3) Therefore, the Party of the Donkey does not care about the possibility of an Iraqi genocide, which is just another way of saying that they don't give a darn how many Iraqis are killed by a premature US pullout
See what a wonderful tool logic is? You really should try it some time.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 10:51 PM (ZPYB9)
16
Noticed something today... in our Fortune 250 company that's going thru significant transformation, we've got people who are capable of effecting significant change, and people who are inflexible, rigid and refuse to change. Any guesses on who's a lib and who's a "conservative"? Funny thing, how "conservative" doesn't mean inflexible like the libs tell us it does. It turns out the very people who can't tolerate any volatility, change and uncertainty are... registered Democrats. People that would unionize if they could, to slow the impact of change external forces are driving.
Sounds like Feingold and his staffers suffer the same problem. The voters demanded change, Bush gave it to him by replacing Rummy (who I respect), signaling throughout the military hierarchy that the status quo was dead and everyone's balls were on the table. Now, results are being obtained. Lowest casualties. Record AQ high-level captures. Significant levels of AQ supporters being flipped to our side.
Yet Feingold, Reid and company are stuck in 2006. Worse yet, they're being sucked into the Soros missive of the day crap, which has got to be painful for proud libs who used to have their own identity. They're reading Soros talking points from 2006, are stuck making accusations based upon edited audio they know is bogus, and are left supporting dying causes like higher taxes, soviet-era 5-year plans, bigger union pensions and unsustainable pork spending.
Increasingly, it seems the definition of a liberal is one who cannot tolerate uncertainty and change. It sure seems like we're seeing a dying ideology flail about before it implodes.
Posted by: redherkey at October 03, 2007 11:07 PM (kjqFg)
17
Yet Feingold, Reid and company are stuck in 2006.
Worse than that. They are stuck on September 10, 2001.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 11:11 PM (ZPYB9)
18
"The members of the Party of the Donkey in Congress, on the other hand, want to bring them home right this instant, and they don't seem to give a darn how many Iraqis die after a premature American pullout."
Well, if we did pull out, at least Blackwater mercenaries wouldn't be running around there like psychotic cowboys, blowing away Iraqis right and left, leaving 17 people dead like this latest incident in Baghdad...
Posted by: Arbotreeist at October 04, 2007 12:10 AM (N8M1W)
19
I find the statement by Feingold in the last quote of the post: "If we give in to the defeatist "we don't have the votes" attitude, we're playing right into the hands of the president and supporters of his war..." rather reminiscent of a line in one of my favorite WWII movies.
The movie is "In Harm's Way" headlined by John Wayne. When JW delivers this line he is responding to his estranged son who was raised by his mother and her family - who just happen to be ‘elites’. The son's line is something snippy that he and his family think WWII is "Roosevelt's war". JW's line is close to this: "I seem to remember them saying the same thing about Wilson’s war…”
Interesting that Hollywood - yes, Hollywood - in 1965 (when the film was released) identified and ridiculed the same attitude Feingold espouses. Seems this country has had Feingold types since (maybe) even its inception. Just something to think about for those who hold the same sentiments today when history has NEVER been on that side.
Posted by: Mark at October 04, 2007 12:58 AM (P8ylB)
20
Arbotreeist,
Two thoughts:
1) 17 dead vs. million plus dead in genocide after premature withdrawal.
2) Blackwater's 'fire rates' are lower than the US military's.
I'll take Blackwater's presence any day

Posted by: Mark at October 04, 2007 01:04 AM (P8ylB)
21
Tree-hugger -- excuse me, Arbotreeist -- sounds like the sort of socialist/pacifist weenie one finds in the chancellaries of the hollowed-out parts of Europe about to be buried by the Islamic hordes.
Posted by: Banjo at October 04, 2007 08:45 AM (1DQ52)
22
Is it just me, or do the cries of "Blackwater, Blackwater" from the left sound very reminiscent of earlier cries of "Halliburton, Halliburton"?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 09:04 AM (6c3XF)
23
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 10/04/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 04, 2007 10:47 AM (gIAM9)
24
Arbortreeist - what about the video evidence showing the convoy of US Diplomatic Corps was attacked by "insurgents" before they returned fire? Did you come out of your narrow-minded little hidey-hole to get the whole story, or just rely on your "progressive" pals to tell you what you wanted to hear?
I guess a burden of proof is only good for folks like Bill Clinton, William Jefferson, and Al Sharpton. Some truly are more equal than others.
Posted by: Weblackey at October 04, 2007 01:45 PM (G5vuD)
25
Arbotreeist
"Well, if we did pull out, at least Blackwater mercenaries wouldn't be running around there like psychotic cowboys, blowing away Iraqis right and left, leaving 17 people dead like this latest incident in Baghdad..."
This sounds pretty scary as a talking point. How many operations have Blackwater personnel actually been on? How many times have they fired their weapons and how many fatalities have they caused?
Please get back to us.
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 04, 2007 02:23 PM (0pZel)
26
Is it just me, or do the cries of "Blackwater, Blackwater" from the left sound very reminiscent of earlier cries of "Halliburton, Halliburton"?
Your point is well taken, CCG: it does seem that the Administration has repeatedly made questionable choices about who to partner with in this war. It's too bad, isn't it?
Posted by: nunaim at October 04, 2007 04:36 PM (22/Qe)
27
This Administration HAS made choices of partnership that Nuniam dislikes.
Poland, Czechoslovakia, England, Australia, Japan, the citizens of Iraq, and Canada instead of his preferred set: China, Cuba, Venezuela, France (though the current prime minister of France has admitted that Chirac's nuniamist antiAmericanism was a terrible mistake), Germany (oil-for-bribes, anyone?), Russia, the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, the American Socialist Party, the Knights of the KKK, CAIR, Lyndon Larouche...
You can tell a man by the company he keeps.
Posted by: DaveP. at October 04, 2007 06:46 PM (mjjwA)
28
nunaim, please do try and keep up. There's a long post by me addressed to you that you haven't responded to yet.
It's polite to respond to earlier messages addressed to you first, you know.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 06:46 PM (6c3XF)
29
Arbotreeist,
Very often dead insurgents have their weapons carried away and they henceforth become know as civilian casualties...Be careful with your MSM news consumption. Surely, you know by now that you are only getting the version approved by editors who couldn't make it in the real world so they went into journalism...
Posted by: Nozzle at October 04, 2007 07:08 PM (+rOvD)
30
nunaim, please do try and keep up. There's a long post by me addressed to you that you haven't responded to yet.
It's polite to respond to earlier messages addressed to you first, you know.
I did respond this morning. Later, the post had disappeared.
Posted by: nunaim at October 04, 2007 08:29 PM (7Mls7)
31
I did respond this morning. Later, the post had disappeared.
With the exception of a Russian spammer, I have not removed anyone's posts today.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 04, 2007 08:37 PM (HcgFD)
32
Trying again, then...
See what a wonderful tool logic is? You really should try it some time.
Gee, yeah. Okay, here's one:
1) Due to improved medical technology, more soldiers than ever before are surviving their injuries and coming home maimed for life.
2) Wingnuts want the war, which causes these injuries, to continue.
3) Therefore, wingnuts are perfectly okay with the idea of more US soldiers than ever before living with horrific injuries.
Hey, you're right! That was easy!
Posted by: nunaim at October 04, 2007 08:41 PM (7Mls7)
33
Ooooh, now we have nunaim confirmed as a liar.
Keep going, nunaim.
By the way, if technical issues keep a reply from being posted, most intelligent people attempt to re-post it.
And when asked about it, instead of whining that "it disappeared," most intelligent people would re-post at least an abridged version of the reply that "disappeared."
So, I eagerly await your re-post of the post that "disappeared."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 08:42 PM (6c3XF)
34
Your point #2 is incorrect, nunaim.
We want the war to continue only until our leaving will not cause a further destabilization in the region.
In fact, continuing the war now may actually be saving lives and limbs. The logic goes thus:
1) If we leave Iraq before the region is stabilized, it will become even more destabilized (genocide is a destabilizing influence, and a powerful one).
2) If the region becomes even more destabilized, there is a very high probability that American troops will be called in at some point. Face it, we're the world's policeman now. We may not like it--I am none too fond of the role--but we have it and have to do something about it.
3) If we are called in at a later date, it will be even harder to establish stability in the region than it is now, because all the work that we have already done will be undone by Iran and its proxies.
4) Therefore, if we leave now, we face a bloodier war in the future.
5) Also worth considering, further destabilization would cost the lives of more Iraqis, whether or not American troops are called in again. So once again, leaving will cost far more lives than staying.
In short, if we finish the job properly we will probably not have to go back in again for a long time, which will, in the long run, save American troops' lives and limbs.
Not to mention that pulling out and letting the region go back to the status quo ante (a little Latin lingo, there) will cause all the American deaths to have been in vain.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 08:53 PM (6c3XF)
35
One more thing worth considering.
If we pull out now, imagine Bin Ladin's crowing... he'll be declaring that Al Qaeda chased the Americans away.
That will, of course, embolden the terrorists again, and we'll probably see terrorist attacks on American soil increase as a consequence of that.
Do ya really want to take the chance of that, nunaim?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 04, 2007 09:05 PM (6c3XF)
36
So, I eagerly await your re-post of the post that "disappeared."
What are you, a friggin' retard? Or simply too lazy to read the post immediately preceding the one in which you wrote this?
Posted by: nunaim at October 05, 2007 08:06 AM (P7g0O)
37
No, I am not a "friggin' retard," but you apparently are.
If you would just look at the time stamps and use a little bit of logic, you'd see that since both posts went up within a minute of each other, it is highly likely that I was typing mine at the same time you were typing yours... which is precisely what happened.
Please, don't work so hard at looking like a microcephalic moron; you do quite well enough at that without working.
Now, please respond to my longer post immediately after the one you quoted.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 09:06 AM (6c3XF)
38
Now, please respond to my longer post immediately after the one you quoted.
Nothing could be easier. If a legislator votes against a measure to end the war, then the legislator wants the war to continue.
The rest of your stuff is lip flappage.
Posted by: nunaim at October 05, 2007 01:15 PM (P7g0O)
39
So, nunaim, you state:
If a legislator votes against a measure to end the war, then the legislator wants the war to continue.
The Dems control both houses of Congress. They could pass a bill to defund the war.
Why don't they? Evidently, the Dems want the war to continue.
Why, nunaim?
Posted by: Lurking Observer at October 05, 2007 05:45 PM (molCB)
40
The Dems control both houses of Congress. They could pass a bill to defund the war.
Why don't they? Evidently, the Dems want the war to continue.
Why, nunaim?
Why, Santy Claus, why?
Posted by: nunaim at October 05, 2007 06:50 PM (ac+VY)
41
nunaim, one can want the war to continue for the motives I expressed above--because they realize that pulling out too soon will mean a bloodier war in the future.
Therefore, you cannot logically support a contention that a vote to continue the war is because the person is bloodthirsty. Nor can a contention that a vote to continue the war is because the person is evil personified be logically supported.
But please, continue to claim such. It makes you look like the microcephalic moron that you are.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 05, 2007 07:02 PM (6c3XF)
42
The death and maiming of American troops are, for you and yours, and acceptable cost of what's going on over there.
For Lefties, it's not. You're happy to sit in your mommy's basement licking Cheeto dust from your fingers as others pay the ultimate (or, bad enough, the penultimate) price for your twisted view of reality.
Lefties feel that that ultimate price should be saved for a situation that is more dire than the one we're facing. It should, in short, be a dire situation for America before American lives are spent like video game tokens. You disagree. That's your prerogative.
Also: you might want to try something other than "microcephalic moron." It's getting old.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 07:04 AM (EPXeF)
43
nunaim, you want a more dire situation? Pulling out would create just such a situation.
* Al Qaeda would claim--with some justification--that they had chased the Americans off.
* Iran and its proxies in the Middle East would have a much freer hand, with no American troops in the area.
* Sectarian violence and possible genocide are extremely likely if we pull out... even the NY Times admits that, as I keep reminding you (and you keep ignoring).
The current deaths are acceptable as a means of preventing far more deaths in the future, both American and Iraqi. Or do you not give a darn about Iraqi deaths? Clinton sure as heck didn't, he did nothing through the 8 years of his administration to liberate the Iraqis. At least George H. W. Bush tried, though his attempt stopped far too soon.
In fact, the elder Bush's attempt has lessons for our current situation... the elder Bush pulled out prematurely... and look at the situation he left behind. Here's a story from a source you probably trust about one of the atrocities committed after the 1991 pullout of American forces.
Do you want that to happen again, nunaim? I ask because that is the end result of the policy you advocate.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 10:38 AM (6c3XF)
44
If somebody is going to kill Iraqi civilians, I'd rather that it not be American troops.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 10:56 AM (EPXeF)
45
Well, I guess so much for civility, eh nunaim?
Color me puzzled by your response, though. How are the Democrats, who control the House and Senate, like Santa Claus? Surely they're not an illusion, a fable. They really do control both houses, you know.
And if everyone on the Left is so all-fired concerned about death and maiming, again, why don't the Democrats do something about it? Like vote to end the war? Funding, after all, by the Constitution is the Congress' job. This is not something that is up to the President.
It seems to me that you're far more interested in playing GOTCHA! with peoples' lives and limbs, and make yourself feel better parading war pr0n around and getting on your supposed moral high horse, than actually doing something about it.
Perhaps while licking soy crumbs off your fingers?
Posted by: Lurking Observer at October 06, 2007 11:00 AM (Sx6SW)
46
And if everyone on the Left is so all-fired concerned about death and maiming, again, why don't the Democrats do something about it? Like vote to end the war? Funding, after all, by the Constitution is the Congress' job. This is not something that is up to the President.
And if you want to go to the store so badly, why don't you just drive up on the sidewalk and drive through people's backyards to get there? After all, you have the keys to the car; you're in charge.
Maybe because there are methods you want to use to get to the store--like driving on the street--and methods that you don't.
The measures to withdraw troops would have given time to leave strategically and in good order; cutting funding would obviously lead to a near-desperation retreat.
The former is what the Democrats in Congress have been fighting to bring about.
"In good order" is better than "near-desperation." The fact that you've asked for clarification is proof enough that you didn't understand the concept. I'm glad I was able to help.
The idea that the mass of Lefties secretly want the war to continue is absurd to a degree that is simply impossible to describe. It's not even in the same universe as reality as it iexists. You clearly understand nothing except whatever is floating around in your own brain--and I'd lay odds that you don't understand that very well, either.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 12:26 PM (EPXeF)
47
I guess you really don't care about the lives of Iraqis, nunaim, if you want us to just leave so that the atrocities can go on... this time perpetrated by Al Qaeda instead of Saddam.
That's a good "progressive" for you... tell me, do you even consider Iraqis human beings?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 01:32 PM (6c3XF)
48
Let's look at your big idea here. First, take a policy --the Iraq war--that is, by your own description, so fatally flawed that ending the war will, according to you, lead to genocide. Next, continue that policy indefinitely.
Nobody accused you guys of being geniuses, but geez, aren't there limits to your idiocy?
Let me fix your post here, CCG:
I guess you really don't care about the lives of [American soldiers], [CCG], if you want us to just [stay] so that the atrocities can go on...
That's a good [conservative] for you... tell me, do you even consider [American soldiers] human beings?
There. All better.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 02:14 PM (EPXeF)
49
Nice attempt at twisting my words, nunaim.
I said ending the war prematurely will result in genocide. If we finish the job we started, however, it will not.
Also, since you're saying that the war itself is fatally flawed, would you have preferred that we leave Saddam in power to fill more mass graves?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 04:38 PM (6c3XF)
50
Also, since you're saying that the war itself is fatally flawed, would you have preferred that we leave Saddam in power to fill more mass graves?
"Ah, yes, Mr. and Mrs. Iraqi. Why are we killing your family, friends and neighbors? To keep you from being killed by Saddam. Or in a genocide."
Good news, though: when we do it, it's only collateral damage, so, to wingnuts, it doesn't count. Kind of like eating ice cream standing over the sink. The calories don't count if you eat it that way!
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 06:35 PM (EPXeF)
51
A simple yes or no, nunaim.
Should we have left Saddam in power or not?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 08:28 PM (6c3XF)
52
Don't worry, nuanim, I'll continue to refer to you as Copperheads. Copperheads and treason, ham and eggs, Laurel and Hardy.... natural pairings.
Posted by: SDN at October 06, 2007 08:38 PM (Hg2oD)
53
Interesting that Hollywood - yes, Hollywood - in 1965 (when the film was released) identified and ridiculed the same attitude Feingold espouses. Seems this country has had Feingold types since (maybe) even its inception. Just something to think about for those who hold the same sentiments today when history has NEVER been on that side.
I believe that by that time, the Duke was producing his own movies, or at least had the clout to make them the way HE wanted, without regard to Hollywood's preferred slants.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at October 06, 2007 09:45 PM (byuKK)
54
Ah, the first attempts at turning "progressive" into a bad word.
Eh? "Progressive" was the label preferred by people who supported massive social engineering, eugenics, and expressed admiration of the policies of a certain German. It's been a "bad word" since the early 20th century.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at October 06, 2007 09:47 PM (byuKK)
55
"Progressive" was the label preferred by people who supported massive social engineering, eugenics, and expressed admiration of the policies of a certain German.
Ah, yes: Fightin' Bob LaFollette, well-known Nazi sympathizer.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 09:50 PM (EPXeF)
56
So, nunaim, not gonna answer my simple question with a simple answer?
Should we have left Saddam in power or not?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 09:58 PM (6c3XF)
57
Ask me a simple question and I'll give you a simple answer.
Now I see your problem: two-valued logic. Everything's black and white.
How simple and delightful life must be for you!
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 10:43 PM (EPXeF)
58
Nice red herring. I'll have to find a recipe for it.
Now answer the question. Should we have left Saddam in power or not?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 06, 2007 10:44 PM (6c3XF)
59
You don't even know what a red herring is, do you? It's cute that you tried to work it into your post, though.
I said that the war was a bad idea from the start, and I'm sticking to that now.
Posted by: nunaim at October 06, 2007 11:39 PM (EPXeF)
60
Answer the question. Should we have left Saddam in power or not?
I'll deal with your various red herrings after you answer, and not before.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 10:27 AM (6c3XF)
61
Well, CCG, I did answer, and the answer now no longer exists.
A quick summary:
1. I did answer your question
2. You are a pretentious fool
3. Stop trying to order me about
Posted by: nunaim at October 07, 2007 03:13 PM (OcyzQ)
62
Riiiiight. The old "disappearing post" dodge.
So, if it's no longer there, please re-post it.
And you don't have to keep responding, but every time you do, I am gonna hit you with that question until you give a simple answer.
Should we have left Saddam in power or not?
Answer or shut up. Those are your options.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 03:35 PM (6c3XF)
Posted by: nunaim at October 07, 2007 06:01 PM (OcyzQ)
64
nunaim, are you accusing CY of removing your posts? I have his email, I'd be happy to ask him myself if he has or not. I'm sure he'd be happy to stop by here and set the record straight if I asked him, as well.
Do ya feel lucky, punk?
Oh, should we have left Saddam in power or not?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 06:12 PM (TBuKI)
65
Point 1: I did remove one of nunaim's comments.
Point 2: The post of nunaim's I removed in no way answered the question.
Point 3: I don't care. Stop. Cease. Desist. If you two want to keep up your argument, by all means do so, but do so elsewhere.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 07, 2007 07:28 PM (HcgFD)
66
My humblest apologies, CY.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 07, 2007 08:07 PM (TBuKI)
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October 02, 2007
New Democrat Attempts to Lose the War in Iraq
Too craven to directly vote for the surrender in Iraq that they would like to hang around the neck of President Bush as a defeat, desperate House Democrats are seeking other ways to lose the war in Iraq. One technique they are trying is simply stalling the 2008 war budget.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates outlined an almost $190 billion request last week for the military in Iraq and Afghanistan over the coming year. But House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey (D., Wis.) said this morning that he had "absolutely no intention" of reporting out a bill this year to fund "any such request that simply serves to continue the status quo."
At the same time, the same Democrats behind this plan to cut funding to our soldiers are threatening to
cripple us with taxes unless they get a commitment to withdraw.
Why are Democrats so desperate to change in U.S. policy in Iraq?
Probably because the "status quo"
isn't a status quo and hasn’t been for some time, and their window to salvage a defeat in Iraq appears to be
narrowing (h/t
Instapundit)
- On Monday came news that U.S. military deaths in Iraq fell to 64 in September, the fourth straight drop since peaking at 121 in May and driving the toll to a 14-month low.
- Civilian deaths also have plunged, dropping by more than half from August to 884. Remember just six months ago all the talk of an Iraqi "civil war"? That seems to be fading.
- The just-ended holy month of Ramadan in Iraq was accompanied by a 40% drop in violence, even though al-Qaida had vowed to step up attacks.
- Speaking of al-Qaida, the terrorist group appears to be on the run, and possibly on the verge of collapse — despite making Iraq the center of its war for global hegemony and a new world order based on precepts of fundamentalist Islam.
- Military officials say U.S. troops have killed Abu Usama al-Tunisi, a Tunisian senior leader of al-Qaida in Iraq who was responsible for bringing foreign fighters into the country. Not surprisingly, the pace of foreign fighters entering Iraq has been more than halved from the average of 60 to 80 a month.
- Last month, 1,200 Iraqis waited patiently in line in Iraq's searing heat to sign up to fight al-Qaida. They will join an estimated 30,000 volunteers in the past six months — a clear sign the tide has turned in the battle for average Iraqis' hearts and minds.
- Finally, and lest you think it's all death and destruction, there's this: Five million Iraqi children returned to school last week, largely without incident, following their summer vacations.
These developments are occurring
just one week after Iraqi PM Nouri al-Malaki claimed that the threat of civil war in Iraq has been averted and that Iranian interference has "ceased to exist," and on the exact same day that al-Malaki announced that Iraqi defense and police forces were ready to take over all security responsibilities from the British in Basra
in two months.
Yesterday, CBS News published an account by
National Review's Pete Hegseth that indicates U.S. strategy has
crippled al Qaeda.
Over the past few years, Democrats have shamelessly crafted their political road ahead on the future rhetoric of "we told you so," intending to be able to look back and point out to the American people that they predicted the Iraq War would be a failure well in advance, while never admitting they helped craft the failure. The goal of this plan is to re-establish some of national security credibility that the Democratic Party forfeited decades ago.
Towards that end, and to further their political goals, they have worked against the best interests of the American military, the American people, and the citizens of Iraq.
This latest attempt by Obey, Murtha, and other House Democrats shows that they will continue to attempt to craft policy to ensure the failure in Iraq that they think will most benefit their political party.
But iff the trends towards lower civilian and military deaths continues, as the Awakening spreads across provinces both Sunni and Shia, how much longer will Democrat politicians be able to claim that the war is "lost?" How much longer will out nation's media be able to
hide signs of progress?
At this moment, the two most prominent stories relating in any way to Iraq are an
contrived smear campaign against a radio talk show host by a
special-interest group linked to a Democratic Presidential candidate, and the Congressional investigation into the apparent brutality of American security contractors working for Blackwater USA, who have fired their weapons in 195 missions out of more than 16,000 since 2005—roughly 1.2%--
and recorded 16 Iraqi casualties since 2005, prior to the Sept. 16 shooting in Baghdad's Nisoor Square that left 11 Iraqis dead and 14 wounded.
And yet while these stories dominating the news media from Iraq are about aspects of the war, they are far from being the whole story about Iraq, or even the most important stories.
The important stories--those being largely ignored by the progressional media--are being told in
food shipments to the poor in quieting towns that "
al Qaeda lost," in now routine
city council meetings in Fallujah, and by
businessmen and mayors in Diyala and elsewhere, and written by American and Iraqi alike.
The War in Iraq is going badly for the Democratic Party, but it appears they will not go down without a fight.
Update: A very interesting and mostly concurring
British opinion on the matter at
Prospect Magazine (h/t
PJM):
Iranian-made rockets will continue to kill British and American soldiers. Saudi Wahhabis will continue to blow up marketplaces, employment queues and Shia mosques when they can. Iraqi criminals will continue to bully their neighbourhoods into homogeneities that will give the strongest more leverage, although even this tide is turning in most places where Petraeus's surge has reached. Bodies will continue to pile up in the ditches of Doura and east Baghdad as the country goes through the final spasm of the reckoning that was always going to attend the end of 35 years of brutal Sunni rule.
But in terms of national politics, there is nothing left to fight for. The only Iraqis still fighting for more than local factional advantage and criminal dominance are the irrational actors: the Sunni fundamentalists, who number but a thousand or two men-at-arms, most of them not Iraqi. Like other Wahhabi attacks on Iraq in 1805 and 1925, the current one will end soon enough. As the maturing Iraqi state gets control of its borders, and as Iraq's Sunni neighbours recognise that a Shia Iraq must be dealt with, the flow of foreign fighters and suicide bombers into Iraq from Syria will start to dry up. Even today, for all the bloodshed it causes, the violence hardly affects the bigger picture: suicide bombs go off, dozens of innocents die, the Shias mostly hold back and Iraq's tough life goes on.
In early September, Nouri al-Maliki said, "We may differ with our American friends about tactics… But my message to them is one of appreciation and gratitude. To them I say, you have liberated a people, brought them into the modern world… We used to be decimated and killed like locusts in Saddam's endless wars, and we have now come into the light." Here is an eloquent answer to the question of when American troops will leave Iraq. They will leave Iraq when the Iraqis, through their elected leadership, tell them to. According to a September poll, 47 per cent of Iraqis would prefer the Americans to leave. The surprise is that it's not 100 per cent. Who, after all, would not want his country rid of foreign troops? But if Iraqis had wanted government by opinion poll, they would have written their constitution that way. Instead, they chose, as do most people when given the choice, representative government.
I highly recommend reading the
entire article. If the author is correct, it may be past the time that the Democrats can engineer a defeat in Iraq.
Have we really "turned the corner?" Frankly, I've heard the pronouncement one time too many to buy it at face value, but if the author is right, then we will be able to start bringing home American troops not in defeat, but in victory.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:49 PM
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1
The first thing Republicans, and no, I AM NOT a conservative, is stop calling the war "the war in Iraq." We are not at war with Iraq and haven't been in a long long time. We are at war with terrorists, a contingent of which were causing havoc in Iraq, albeit less and less. The War on Terrorism is being fought all over the world - in Afghanistan, in Germany, in Britain, in Indonesia, in Spain, and right here at home. In Iraq, the Iraqis are our allies, which is a GOOD THING. We are supporting them now in their own fight against al-Quaeda and the criminal element who is for sale to the highest bidder.
I am so sick of the democrats in Congress, especially that pasty-faced Reid and his whiny voice. They are so ill informed, it is shocking. I was on the phone with a staffer in one of my Senators' office and was asked how I could say there was improvement in Iraq when children couldn't even go to school. Funny, I said, I just did a blog post about 5 million Iraqi children starting school that day. The person cackled, making me think I had Hillary on the line, not a staffer. I think they are giving lessons on how to immitate that cackle.
Look, I'm just an ol' broad who lives in the desert, so what do I know. Right? Wrong. I don't know why the dems think their bread is buttered by terrorists, but they do. Is it dhimmitude or is it that the al-Qaeda way of ironclad control and punishing rules are so attractive to them? We already know that they prefer to keep African-Americans subservient and have zero respect for anyone of color. We know they prefer socialism over our Republic and dictatorship over democracy. Do they really think they would survive such a system and survive to lead at the top?
Posted by: Sara at October 02, 2007 04:52 PM (hGL+y)
2
Great comment Sara!! Though I am a conservative, I agree.
Posted by: right4us at October 02, 2007 05:02 PM (OYHXk)
3
I forgot to mention how sad is the state of the Democrat party. I know I am not alone in feeling like they have too many obviously anti-Americans in the high ranks of their party. It is treasonous to me what they are doing. Just unbelievable. If the founding fathers were here today, many dems would be shot on the spot - in my opinion.
Thanks Confederate Yankee for the post.
Posted by: right4us at October 02, 2007 05:13 PM (OYHXk)
4
Sara, the reason it is called "the war in Iraq" is because Iraq is where this particular part of the larger war on terror is being fought. Therefore, it is a war being fought, currently, in Iraq.
You might have a point if people were calling it the war against Iraq, or war on Iraq, but there is nothing factually, grammatically, or logically incorrect about the phrase "the war in Iraq."
You might as well object to calling the portion of World War II that was focused on the Japanese the "War in the Pacific."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 02, 2007 07:16 PM (ZPYB9)
5
Grabbing the steering wheel and dragging this back to the main point...
The current "status quo" in Iraq, as CY points out, is that we are winning... and Obey admits that he won't do anything to continue that?
Can he be that stupid?
Posted by: C-C-G at October 02, 2007 07:48 PM (ZPYB9)
6
First - You do have a point Sara (and so do you C-C-G). I would prefer something a bit more nuanced (channeling Bill Clinton - grin). "The Iraq Front of the War on Terror" fits my bill (pun intended).
Second - This subject brings more light on what ills our country today - Moral, Philosophical, and Political Cancer.
I am - Independent, relatively conservative, Christian, white, and male. Wrapped up, all around, inside and out - I am an AMERICAN. I freely admit I am a jingoist - My country, may she always be right, but my country right or wrong.
The light is now shining very brightly on this national cancer. A cancer that cannot be - Must not be - removed by surgery. It can only be cured if the Will of the People of this nation is able to force change. Change for the Good of the nation. That is the only medicine that will work.
Third - I have to give a shout out for C-C-G's site and thank him again for putting up a post for me. If you have time, please go check out his site:
http://christianconservativegeek.blogspot.com/
(appologies to CY for overstepping comment privilidges)
Posted by: Mark at October 02, 2007 09:57 PM (P8ylB)
7
Yikes - more apologies - for my atrocious spelling in my apology and for abusing the English language with such privilege!
Posted by: Mark at October 02, 2007 10:01 PM (P8ylB)
8
If you truly believe the anti-war rhetoric the Democrat "politicians" are touting to get themselves elected, then you've been fooled since day one.
I separate "politicians" from the general democratic public. The liberals and most moderates want the war to end.
Come November, Republican or most likely Democrat, we are not truly leaving Iraq in the next decade.
So if your fear is that the U.S. will pull out, I'd not be too worried about it. You'll be writing about our U.S. occupation for years to come.
Posted by: john bryan at October 02, 2007 11:04 PM (v9dwy)
9
John Bryan, at one point in our history the same thing could have been said about Vietnam.
The parallels are eerie.
(p.s. I didn't put Mark up to the plug.)
Posted by: C-C-G at October 02, 2007 11:09 PM (ZPYB9)
10
stop calling the war "the war in Iraq."
There is a war of sorts going on "in Iraq". The war "on Iraq" ended in a matter of weeks some years ago.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 02, 2007 11:24 PM (bEmmq)
11
It looks like Pelosi shot down the loony war tax idea. It took her about four hours. Why don't the dems talk to each other before publicly announcing policy positions. They look like the keystone cops with all the pointless legislation they've floated this year. These reversals make them look like idiots. They also can't seem to remember that people really don't like taxes.
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 12:17 AM (0pZel)
12
Never quite understood, why the Dems did'nt take credit for the surge. After all, we would still have the same policy, had not Bush changed the strategy to the "surge" after the Dem's won. They could of taken a lot of credit for forcing Bush to do something.
Posted by: plainslow at October 03, 2007 02:51 AM (A5i2e)
13
Over two million Iraqis are now refugees in neighbouring countries. Over two million are "internally displaced" i.e. refugees in their own country. There is very little possibility of these people ever returning "home".
To put these numbers in perspective, it would be the equivalent of perhaps 50 million Americans becoming refugees.
American troops may at some point be coming home "in victory".
It has been an unmitigated disaster for the Iraqi people.
Posted by: Max at October 03, 2007 05:32 AM (VRb5p)
14
Speaking of Pelosi, she just appeared on a TV show with Whoopi Goldberg who said she'd like to be in a menage a trois with Nancy and her husband. A trip to the sewer is guaranteed any time you're around Whoopi. Nancy just smiled, something she does particularly well. What a good sport, eh?
Posted by: Banjo at October 03, 2007 07:09 AM (1DQ52)
15
Max - It sounds like you believe you have reliable information.
"There is very little possibility of these people ever returning "home"."
How are you arriving at this conclusion?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 08:48 AM (0pZel)
16
"Never quite understood, why the Dems did'nt take credit for the surge. After all, we would still have the same policy, had not Bush changed the strategy to the "surge" after the Dem's won. They could of taken a lot of credit for forcing Bush to do something."
Agreed. It is possibly the best thing they have done in a long time. They couldn't claim it, though, probably because they were beholden to the "pull-out now" crowd, and it would mean alienating a very vocal segment of their base.
Posted by: Grey Fox at October 03, 2007 09:07 AM (gA6jp)
17
Max, the Iraqis are better off homeless and alive than in one of Saddam's mass graves.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 09:11 AM (ZPYB9)
18
Oh, Max, in discussing your comment with a friend who's an American living in Turkey (and recently married to a Turk), she says, "I'm glad Saddam isn't my neighbor anymore."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 09:21 AM (ZPYB9)
19
Hmmmm.
@ max
Over two million Iraqis are now refugees in neighbouring countries. Over two million are "internally displaced" i.e. refugees in their own country. There is very little possibility of these people ever returning "home".
And they are overwhelmingly Sunni Iraqis, many of whom were either associates of Saddam or AQ.
So I really doubt that there are going to be all that many tears. Particularly since so few *Arab* or *Muslim* countries want any of these people in their borders.
Posted by: memomachine at October 03, 2007 09:36 AM (3pvQO)
20
memomachine
The refugees are both Sunni and Shiite. They have been driven out of areas where they were in the minority, terrified for their lives.
Let's not forget the Christian minority, who have been in Iraq for almost 2000 years. Now they are persecuted, terrified, and on the run.
The one party that has undoubtedly gained from this debacle is the Iranians.
The US military can undoubtedly unleash awesome destruction. This enables them to achieve tactical victories at will. However, when it comes to achieving strategic objectives, the US military and Government have, in Iraq, made a complete f***-up of the entire enterprise.
Unless of course the objective all along was to achieve control of Iraq's oil, regardless of the cost to the Iraqi people. In that case it can be argued that they have indeed achieved their strategic objective.
Posted by: Max at October 03, 2007 10:07 AM (VRb5p)
21
From Bill Roggio's report on 15 SEP 2007 in Southern Baghdad province:
"While sectarian tensions remain a serious problem in the region, there is evidence the rifts are not irreparable. In Sunni dominated Jurf As Sakr, a respected Shia tribal sheikh was elected mayor. One of the mayor’s first moves was to fly to Jordan to ask Sunni tribal leaders who fled the violence over the past several years to return to rebuild their communities."
There are 'refugees' escaping fighting and 'refugees' that are on the run because they are killers. Apparently Iraqis know the difference, and want good neighbors back and are going to talk to them. The problem of using sectarian based analysis is that in most of Iraq (geographically) it is the tribes that dominate and religion crosses through and inside tribes. Actually, the entire report and set of reports by PMI is very interesting, giving on-the-spot views, talking with locals and piecing together what is happening.
On the front of 'winning' against al Qaeda, my own view has been that Iraq and Afghanistan are strategically defensive conflicts, to stop radical Islam from spreading easily. That means that getting both into a stable, non-terror supporting mode is necessary, but not sufficient for success in the long run. Iraq made stable offers a dual counter-weight to Riyadh and Tehran by demonstrating that the violence brought by both major radical strains of Islam will target moslems just as easily as anyone else. That shores up the defensive side of the equation, but does nothing with going on the actual *offensive*. al Qaeda, as an entity, was an outgrowth of two other organizations that both have the ability to pull in al Qaeda's affiliate network. Demonstrating open Iranian involvement in the killing of moslems, also tarnishes their image, although as millenialist outlook those things are 'flexible': none will so easily kill as those that see the end of everything coming soon.
The greater overall threat is that all other terrorism, to get any attention, has had to get more violent, and while Islamic sorts have the highest body count (total and per incident), it is less than 1/3 of all terror attacks. The others have been raising their per-incident death toll for two decades, and that rate of increase continues on today without abatement. Someday that really should be addressed...
Posted by: ajacksonian at October 03, 2007 10:09 AM (oy1lQ)
22
max - Given where the U.S. has focused its resources in Iraq over the past four years isn't it pretty ridiculous to keep floating the war for oil theme? If we had wanted to steal the country's oil, wouldn't we be doing it by now?
With respect to the refugees, how have you determined their intentions for the long term? Have they been interviewed? Is this rank speculation?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 10:45 AM (0pZel)
23
daleyrocks
Read what I wrote - I said "control of its (Iraq's) oil", I did not say "steal".
Given the construction of the biggest US embassy in the world,
given the clear commitment to keep score of thousands of US troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future,
given the fact that the Oil Ministry was the only one to be defended by US soldiers while Baghdad was ransacked after its "liberation",
given Paul Wolfowitz's statement that Iraq's oil would pay for its liberation,
given all these things, isn't it pretty ridiculous to keep denying the war for oil theme?
With regard to the refugees, you are in denial over the horror of the situation. Millions of people have fled their homes which in most cases have now been taken over by the rival community. The vast majority will not be returning - that's the reality. And out of the horrors of these refugees camps the US will reap a whirlwind of another generation of the displaced and the hopeless.
Posted by: Max at October 03, 2007 11:16 AM (VRb5p)
24
Max - Wolfowitz mentioned oil once I believe. Who else in the administration mentioned oil? How are we controlling their oil or planning to control their oil? Do you have special insight into the plans like you seem to have into the minds of the refugees?
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 11:29 AM (0pZel)
25
Max: "It has been an unmitigated disaster for the Iraqi people."
Assuming, arguendo, that the war has been a disaster, do you really believe it to be "unmitigated", or did you use that term for hyperbolic effect? I assume you are arguing in good faith, though I disagree with you, but I wonder why you see no mitigating factors. (mitigation doesn't equate to justification)
A few that come quickly to mind:
a. Saddam's gone
b. no more rape rooms
c. liberation of 85%+- of the population from Sunni tyranny
I don't want to revisit all the pros and cons, but I can't believe you don't see any mitigation at all.
P.S. While I was typing, this came up:
"Let's not forget the Christian minority, who have been in Iraq for almost 2000 years. Now they are persecuted, terrified, and on the run."
I read once (no link) that about 70% of the Arab population in America is Christian, mostly Chaldean I believe. There is a reason for that. Your point was just as true before as after the invasion.
Posted by: mrobvious at October 03, 2007 12:52 PM (8Y/fG)
26
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 10/03/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 03, 2007 03:26 PM (gIAM9)
27
Looks like Max's lefty blinders are firmly in place... he refuses to admit that being alive, even if not in your native land, is better than being in a mass grave in your home soil.
Of course, with all the news from Iraq showing that things are getting better, lefties like Max are desperately flailing about, looking for something to blame the Coalition Forces for.
Posted by: C-C-G at October 03, 2007 07:07 PM (ZPYB9)
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Never quite understood, why the Dems did'nt take credit for the surge.
The public's memory isn't THAT short.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 04, 2007 01:13 PM (9Zb8M)
29
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Posted by: buckster at October 06, 2007 04:31 AM (evxq4)
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[*map/map_index_coml2.txt||10||r||1|| @]
Posted by: dota at October 06, 2007 03:02 PM (EN96L)
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October 01, 2007
al-Dura Denied
The televised death of Muhammad al-Dura on Sept. 30, 2000 at the beginning of the al-Aqsa Intifada was replayed over and over again as propaganda by Palestinians, in a conflict that eventually claimed thousands of lives.
Seven years later, the footage has been
denounced as fauxtography by the Israeli government:
Seven years after the death of the Palestinian boy Muhammad al-Dura in Gaza, the Prime Minister's Office speaks out against the "myth of the murder".
An official document from Jerusalem denied – for the first time – that Israel was responsible for the death of al-Dura at the start of the second intifada.
The document argued that the images, which showed al-Dura being shot beside his father and have become a symbol of the second intifada, were staged.
"The creation of the myth of Muhammad al-Dura has caused great damage to the State of Israel. This is an explicit blood libel against the state. And just as blood libels in the old days have led to pogroms, this one has also caused damage and dozens of dead," said Government Press Office director Daniel Seaman.
The arguments were based on investigations that showed that the angles of the IDF troops' fire could not have hit the child or his father, that part of the filmed material, mainly the moment of the boy's alleged death, is missing, and the fact that the cameraman can be heard saying the boy is dead while the boy is still seen moving.
In
The Atlantic in 2005, James Fallows explained
why the story matters:
Al-Dura was the twelve-year-old Palestinian boy shot and killed during an exchange of fire between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian demonstrators on September 30, 2000. The final few seconds of his life, when he crouched in terror behind his father, Jamal, and then slumped to the ground after bullets ripped through his torso, were captured by a television camera and broadcast around the world. Through repetition they have become as familiar and significant to Arab and Islamic viewers as photographs of bombed-out Hiroshima are to the people of Japan—or as footage of the crumbling World Trade Center is to Americans. Several Arab countries have issued postage stamps carrying a picture of the terrified boy. One of Baghdad's main streets was renamed The Martyr Mohammed Aldura Street. Morocco has an al-Dura Park. In one of the messages Osama bin Laden released after the September 11 attacks and the subsequent U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, he began a list of indictments against "American arrogance and Israeli violence" by saying, "In the epitome of his arrogance and the peak of his media campaign in which he boasts of 'enduring freedom,' Bush must not forget the image of Mohammed al-Dura and his fellow Muslims in Palestine and Iraq. If he has forgotten, then we will not forget, God willing."
It is quite possible that this defining moment in the Palestinian intifada cited even by Osama bin Laden was not the death of an innocent at the hands of callous Israeli soldiers, but
the deliberate murder of a child for propaganda purposes in which the Palestinian cameraman may have been a willing actor.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:49 PM
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1
It seems that the release of the French footage will allow us the proof to what we already know, that the boy was downed by Arab bullets. The very exploitation of this and Jenin and the apartments of Lebanon should make everyone take a minute and not allow Arab propaganda from taking hold.
Posted by: Jweaver at October 02, 2007 09:30 AM (w8R25)
2
According to R. Landes, who has seen the film already, the film doesn't show the boy being killed. Just set ups and takes, etc.
So it is also a possibility that the boy didn't die at all - because, as I recall, there was some difficulty the Palestinians claimed at the time with producing his body - but that he played dead for the cameras. Or that he had been killed in the Palestinian crossfire.
I find it hard to believe, at this point, that he was killed on demand.
Posted by: Alcibiades at October 02, 2007 09:47 AM (H9kgs)
3
Pity all the fact checkers and editors at the AFP didn't sniff this out at the time. One would almost suspect that there aren't any.
Posted by: corvan at October 02, 2007 10:11 AM (1g+FW)
4
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 10/02/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at October 02, 2007 10:26 AM (gIAM9)
5
When the entire video is released the truth will be known one way or another.
Until then everything is just premature speculation and guesswork.
Posted by: r4d20 at October 02, 2007 12:55 PM (tCYT+)
6
Until then everything is just premature speculation and guesswork.
Not at all.
I'm not CSI, but I know my way around firearms, and I can tell you with a great degree of certainty that the bullet holes in the wall behind the al Dura's could not have come from the Israeli position.
Any shot from the Israeli position would have been at consideable distance and at a relatively shallow angle. The bullets would have gouged the wall and probably fragmented, leaving a mark somewhat similar to this, but with probably even less depth as the bullet sideswiped the wall. Nor would the shot be as tightly grouped or in that particular pattern if fired from the Israeli position from an automatic as the shots actually were.
No, the shape of the bullet holes indicates a near right-angle shot, and the spread of the holes tells us they were fired at reasonably close range. It is impossible to pin it down precisely, but I doubt to many experts would argue with an estimate of the shots pictured being fired from much beyond 30 meters, and possibily inside that depending on the weapon used and the skill of the shooter.
This was a broadside murder, in my opinion, but the Israeli's had nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 02, 2007 03:23 PM (ScOBm)
7
Another example of "fake but accurate."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 02, 2007 07:17 PM (ZPYB9)
8
What exactly were the French filmmaker's reasons for withholding footage? If nothing fishy was going on he certainly could have cleared up a lot of questions. It stinks and he stinks. Pallywood, where everyone's dreams come true.
Posted by: daleyrocks at October 03, 2007 09:29 AM (0pZel)
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Limbaugh Blasted for "Phony Soldiers" Crack by Fake War Hero Harkin
I've pretty much avoided this entire non-story, but the entire situation has become such a farce that I feel compelled to link this.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Reagan said it best: "[T]he trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so."
Posted by: C-C-G at October 01, 2007 07:56 PM (cWwQp)
2
Another Vietnam "war hero," according to the left, is poor Max Cleveland. Bill and Hillary are always bringing him up as a victim of the rightwing hate machine. It turned out that Cleveland accidentally blew off his own limbs in an incident in which beer was involved. That doesn't make him a phony soldier, but it doesn't make him a hero either.
Posted by: Banjo at October 01, 2007 09:00 PM (1DQ52)
3
First it was Don Imus.
Then it was Bill O'Reilly.
Now it is Rush Limbaugh.
Who will be next?
Posted by: 1sttofight at October 01, 2007 10:01 PM (dyn92)
4
Just for the record, Banjo, his name is Max CLELAND. And, according to his Wikipedia entry, the grenade fell off one of his buddies flak jackets after exiting a helipcopter.
I'm no fan of his by any means, but the suggestion that he may have been drunk and caused his own injuries is simply not factually accurate.
And it's kinda irrelevant to the whole Rush Limbaugh smear...
Posted by: CBT at October 02, 2007 07:04 AM (TYZsn)
5
I stand corrected on Cleland.
Posted by: Banjo at October 02, 2007 09:19 AM (1DQ52)
6
Hmmmmm.
@ CBT
I'm no fan of his by any means, but the suggestion that he may have been drunk and caused his own injuries is simply not factually accurate.
Frankly I wouldn't trust WikiPedia on this. While they have that in quotations, they don't actually *cite* anything as the source of the quotations.
Perhaps the original meme is wrong, that Max Cleland was drinking beer with some buddies, saw a grenade on the ground and picked it up whereupon it detonated. But if so I'd like to see something, anything, actually cited.
Let's face it. The Democrats have a huge political investment in Max Cleland's military career. And it sounds a lot better that he was injured in an accident rather than because of doing something idiotic while under the influence of alcohol.
Posted by: memomachine at October 02, 2007 09:39 AM (3pvQO)
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Carnival of the Bizarre
Both U.S. military and Iraqi civilian casualties have plummeted in Iraq. Thousands have apparently been killed and their bodies dumped in the jungle in clashes with government forces in Mayanmar/Burma. A college football player is gunned down and classes are cancelled for thousands as the search for the suspect continues.
A
volcano erupts in the Red Sea, killing soldiers on a remote island outpost. There is yet another story about
U.S. plans for attacking Iran.
And yet with all these developments affecting or potentially affecting lives around the globe,
CNN and
Fox News focus on the death of an irate passenger who apparently managed to strangle herself with her handcuffs after being arrested for disorderly conduct after missing her flight.
Don't get me wrong. It is a tragedy that this 45-year-old mother of three died. But this shouldn’t be a top story in national news.
For those not related to her, her death is merely an exploited curiosity, a carny act inexplicably promoted to the the center ring. It matters little that she is the daughter of relatively obscure political figures, or that the cause of her death is being ascribed to the oddest of circumstances. This is sideshow material promoted to the front page for it's ability to shock and entertain.
I thought that the
Weekly World News collapsed because they couldn't find readership for their kind of "news." Apparently, they were simply driven out of business by larger organizations more adept at exploiting a more brutal kind of infotainment.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at October 01, 2007 01:41 PM (oC8nQ)
2
This story is much more relevant and should have been the front page headlines:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298802,00.html
Sons Stab Each Other During Chicago Mom's Birthday Party
Monday, October 01, 2007
CHICAGO — A Southwest Chicago mother got the fright of her life Sunday night when her two sons stabbed each other during her birthday celebration, police said.
The men, ages 37 and 39, were hospitalized in critical condition, but were expected to live. No charges have yet been filed.
Posted by: NortonPete at October 01, 2007 02:51 PM (fVuwW)
3
This is why I prefer Arab news...
Posted by: Dawnfire82 at October 01, 2007 05:28 PM (oIINu)
4
That yarn was just a breather before the perfect storm of more Britney 24/7. And doesn't O.J. have a hearing coming up? While I'm on the subject, what explains the neglect of Paris Hilton lately?
Posted by: Banjo at October 01, 2007 09:05 PM (1DQ52)
5
I afraid I have to disagree. The events around the world may ultimately impact us here, although the deaths reported in Burma seem a little strange and I doubt the number. But the death of this woman is indicative of the death of our freedom. I certainly understand the concern that we should have following 9/11, but I feel that if we had no security at all that your chance of being harmed by a terrorist would be less than that of being hit by lightning.
I have the opinion that terror is a weapon and that we should be targeting those that use that weapon. So far we have managed to get ourselves bogged down in a fight to bring democracy to a country that has no idea what it is. This woman's death indicates that we have no idea what it is. Our police are becoming far to intrusive into our lives and this is a perfect example. The woman was sick. She needed someone to look after her and not handcuff her and leave her unobserved. She very well could have had a good reason to be mad at the airplane staff. I have yet to go to the airport without a strong desire to kill someone (figuritively or else the gestapo may come after me).
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 07:48 AM (G5i3t)
6
If you show up at the gate after the door has closed, you don't get on the plane. They will not disrupt their departure checklist for one tardy passenger. It has been this way forever. That incident has nothing to do with "security".
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 02, 2007 09:23 AM (bEmmq)
7
Purple,
I realize that concept of travel. But we are not presented with that fact. In addition, considering the deterioration of the airline industry, it is not inconceivable that they denied her for any number of reasons. The woman had enough of the stupidity that infest our country and blew up. For that the police killed her. The story is an example of how low we have come. Also, ask yourself, why she was late. Could it have been the ridiculous security? Or any of the other barriers we have to just getting on a stupid plane. We have gone beyond stupidity on this terrorism and security situation and it is past time to turn the clock back. I think this is one of the reasons that Hillary is going to get the government and turn us into a socialist state.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 09:52 AM (G5i3t)
8
Part I:
The women was part of the stupidity infesting our country.
"The police killed her." Hogwash. She killed herself in a tragic accident when she tried to Houdini herself out of the handcuffs and shackles. If she had just calmed down and shown a little rationality, she would have been released.
There are some details in the story that cause me to conjecture. She is the DIL of a wealthy rights advocate from NY. She arrived late at the gate for reasons unknown. You can speculate that security delayed her. I can speculate that she showed up late at the airport.
When I fly, I show up 1-2 hours before the flight to ensure I'll make it through security. I don't expect any special privileges. ONCE I showed up 20 minutes before departure at Newark but missed the flight to Dulles because they had already finished boarding. I was put on a later flight that evening.
She arrived after they had finished boarding. She flew into a childish rage. She became irrational and abusive and as such became a threat to the airport employees and travelers. Airport cops showed up. She became abusive towards them. She was restrained. I'm sure she struggled, screamed, kicked, tried to bite, spit and basically continued with her tantrum. They probably had to carry her. I'd bet she was screaming "Do you know who I am?!" at the time.
If I had been there, I would have applauded as airport security took her away. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 11:54 AM (VOA2U)
9
Part II
The put her in the adult equivalent of "time out." They put her on a bench in a sealed room. They put shackles on her to keep her confined to the bench. They took away her audience. They gave her time to cool down. Instead, she believed that she could worm her way out of the handcuffs and the chain that kept her seated on the bench.
Put your hands behind your back. Imagine the handcuffs. Imagine the chain connecting the handcuffs to the chair you're sitting on. How would YOU get out? You're not supposed to be able to escape. It's not like this is a new technology. Restraints work.
The only fault I see is that security should have had a camera mounted in the ceiling so that detainees could be monitored. Remember, this isn't a jail cell--it's just a room off the concourse where detainees would wait for the Phoenix police or the FBI to come pick them up.
She died because she believed that she was above the rules that apply to everyone else. She died because she went irrational. People go irrational or stupid or inattentive all the time, and sometimes they die because of it (car accidents, smoking in bed, DIY electrical projects, drunk stunts on balconies, etc).
IF she had accepted the fact that she had missed boarding, she'd still be alive. IF she had not caused a scene in a public place, she'd still be alive. IF she had not harassed airline employees, she'd still be alive. IF she had not struggled with security, she'd still be alive. IF she had shown ANY restraint prior to being restrained, she'd still be alive. IF she had sat quietly, waiting for the moment to contact her lawyer, she'd still be alive.
Tragedy? Yes. But not indicative that we're in a "police state." She wasn't taken away by men in black to a jail cell where she was beaten and left in the dark. She wasn't given a bullet in the back of the head. This wasn't covered up by government sources.
She is a victim of an irrational, immature lapse of judgment and an inflated sense of ego.
Sorry for the length, I've been thinking about this since I first heard the story. I'm a frequent traveler and have no tolerance for people who cut in lines, expect special treatment, or treat hardworking airport employees like personal servants or second-class citizens. Some people just don’t get it. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 11:55 AM (VOA2U)
10
Part III
It has nothing to do with increased TSA presence due to terrorism. I don't think TSA was even involved. If this had happed pre-9/11, the results would have been the same. Public scene, taken away to calm down.
There is a time and a place to question authority. She showed a complete disregard for the rules of civilized behavior in public areas.
Ironically, she was shackled for her own safety, to keep her from assaulting anyone else or injuring herself. But noooooo, she just had to push the envelope.
I blame Bush. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 12:01 PM (VOA2U)
11
pizza,
The way that our country is accepting the constant interference by police and authorities in our lives is truly depressing. I work in a situation were we have to confine people who are mentally impaired for one reason or another. This woman was not mentally impaired to that extent. If someone dies in this manner in my care, I have commited murder, period. Why is it that the police have to become involved in a situation like this? Had she hurt someone? Did she distroy major property? No, she shouted and was mad. Some of you would have done very well in Germany 70 years ago.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 02, 2007 03:08 PM (ipORN)
12
Book II, Part I
Oooohh, a nazi reference!
CONSTANT interference? Like the checkpoints at major intersections where my citizenship papers get checked every time I go to the store for my authorized ration of USDA approved milk? The ubiquitous spy cameras and orbiting UAVs keeping track of the microchip implanted at the base of my skull (which also keeps track of seditious thoughts)? I have to admit, those patent leather jackboots are pretty spiffy, especially when seen up close when someone’s standing on my neck (as I’m once again thrown to the ground and roughly searched, as we all are multiple times a day).
And we all KNOW that all the police departments are simply different branches, franchises if you will, of the great integrated federal imperial police force, using soulless clones (instead of neighbors and relatives) imported from eastern European dictatorships. They can’t be actual citizens, after all, with a responsibility to maintain law and public order.
BTW, Throwing out glib reference to nazi Germany only displays an overwhelming ignorance of world history circa 1929-1945. Never having lived in a totalitarian, fascist state, how would you recognize the true signs of the malignancy that is fascism? Find someone who lived through the Hitler years in Germany or the Stalin years in Soviet Russia to gain some perspective about the differences between our democracy and theirs. Such comments have no place in reasoned discourse.
If you’ve never visited a police state, I could suggest several so you can go and experience the full effect for yourself. Even relatively benign states like the Philippines (where I lived for several years under Marcos and martial law) recognize the difference between internal security and oppression—check out the slaughter of the monks in Burma by a true police state. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:54 PM (VOA2U)
13
Book II, Part II
David,
Neither of us were present at Sky Harbor. You have no basis on which to state that she was not mentally impaired. Chances are she wasn’t mentally impaired—I never implied she was. I implied that she had an EMOTIONAL response akin to a childish temper tantrum, that she acted irrationally and that she was detained in order to give her time to cool down and start behaving rationally again.
Since you work with mentally impaired persons, you must know that sometimes there can be no rationalizing of irrational actions. Have you ever had a patient throw a fit, or do they all accept your authority unquestioningly? And there are worlds of difference between murder, manslaughter, negligent homicide, and suicide.
Tasering her was probably out of the question. The airport security (operating under different rules and regs than Phoenix PD) thought it best to restrain her. Obviously this method had worked in the past with unruly travelers, unless you think this is the first time anyone was ever taken into custody at an airport. She was no criminal, just someone having a really, REALLY bad day.
She fought the law and the law won. Now she’s a Darwin nominee (although technically she’s already passed her genes on to the next generation). Yes, her family is going through grief and pain and I’m not going to mock her as a person—but I will use her actions as an object lesson that actions bring consequences. We don’t always get to choose the consequences. I am truly sorry she died, but that does not mitigate the fact that she died because she could not bring herself back to a state of mind where she could act rationally. –cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:55 PM (VOA2U)
14
Book II, Part III
This does not mean we are moving to a police state. It could also demonstrate that we are moving towards anarchy because rules of public behavior are being cast aside as some people feel that their narcissistic selves take priority over the good of others. We’re becoming a society of spoiled brats who throw tantrums at the least provocation: when our coffee is cold (or too hot and we spill it on ourselves), our flight is delayed, we get cut off in traffic, the dry cleaners temporarily misplaced a pair of pants, one-hour photo took two hours, someone referenced nazi Germany, etc.
There are some legitimate reasons to distrust some aspects of the bureaucracy that is the federal government. But remember, these people who work the bureaucracy aren’t faceless drones in the Borg collective—these are neighbors and people we knew in High School or college who went into public service. These are retired veterans who went into civil service. Individually, most of them are great people; caring parents, considerate spouses, friendly towards others. There is no “faceless they”—only Americans doing their jobs. Paranoia is as ingrained in the American psyche as baseball. It’s easier to believe that a conspiracy is involved rather than face the fact that usually it’s just incompetence and error by well-meaning people who have never met the law of unintended consequences.
I’ve lived all over the US, in urban, suburban and rural areas. I’ve lived next door to cops and government employees and have even met the occasional mental health practitioner. There is no plot. Someone will get elected in ’08 and someone new will move into the White House. Government will change peacefully, despite the diatribes, then we’ll move on to the next Britney scandal, the next bout with paranoia, the next round of congressional malfeasance and runaway federal spending.
I still blame Bush. -cp
Posted by: cold pizza at October 02, 2007 04:55 PM (VOA2U)
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Pizza,
I agree, there is no plot of any kind and to indicate that there is one would be pure paranoia. But exactly when did Germany become a police state? It wasn't overnight. It consisted of gradually diminishing rights and an acceptance of the public to this changing state of affairs. That is exactly what we must fight. When I took a flight in the 50's, the concept of airport police did not exist. Gradually over time we have now reached a point where we are almost stripped searched to get on a plane and an irrate individual is arrested instead of being allowed to vent their frustration to an employee of an airline. There is even a holding cell at the airport. When was the last time you saw police of this nature at a train terminal or bus station?
Now I don't have to be reminded of the terrorist and all that junk. If we want to eliminate terrorist let's do that, but not have police in every aspect of our lives. I would much prefer to have security like the 50's today with the ever present "threat" than to have to be subjected to routine rights violations as we are. If an incident occurs, take it out on the group or countries involved.
An yes, I have spent time in a police state and the only thing lacking is the presence of machine guns at intersections.
Posted by: David Caskey at October 03, 2007 10:36 AM (G5i3t)
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September 29, 2007
"Baiting Sniper" Found Not Guilty of Murder
Via a MNF-I press release:
A military panel found Sgt. Jorge Sandoval from Laredo, Texas,
not guilty of murder Sept. 28.
Sandoval was found not guilty of murdering an unknown male April
27. He was also found not guilty of murdering an unknown male May 11;
placing an AK-47 rifle on the body and failing to ensure humane
treatment of the victim while he was being detained.
Sandoval was found guilty of placing command wire on the body of
the male victim on April 27.
The military panel will reconvene Sept. 29 for Sandoval's
sentencing. He can face between six months to five years in prison.
Some background
here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:29 AM
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...and the usual lefty suspects are silent.
You'd think they'd be busy claiming that the trial was fixed by ChimpyBushHitler and his cronies.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 29, 2007 07:50 PM (sOYAM)
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"command wire"? from an official press release.
Posted by: PETN Sandwich at September 30, 2007 01:18 AM (XBgRS)
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I'm not a military expert, but I suspect that "command wire" refers to the type wire used to detonate a bomb or IED. Probably copper with a plastic sheath, as opposed to a bare wire of some sort.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 30, 2007 10:09 AM (sOYAM)
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Duh... I meant type of wire.
That's what I get for typing before having my morning caffeine.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 30, 2007 10:10 AM (sOYAM)
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Yeah, a military reader or writer would have just know that this means a wire used in a "command-detonated" explosive. Most likely, the term is really an elision of "command detonated explosive command wire" which is rather long and awkward.
So the MNF-I press release writer probably didn't realise that the elision would sound peculiar, and went with it because the whole phrase sounds peculiar too!
It's interesting to see how little play these acquittals and dismissals get in the MSM. For instance, the NYT had Paul von Zielbauer, their "American troops committing atrocities" specialist, in Fayetteville for the Staffel/Anderson hearings, but when the two SFers were exonerated, they pulled him back and he didn't write a word.
All the news that fits the narrative, we print. That tells you all you need to know when you see von Zielbauer's byline from here on out.
Posted by: Kevin R.C. 'Hognose' O'Brien at October 02, 2007 02:26 PM (LkeNv)
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September 28, 2007
Getting It Wrong
Let's give credit Where credit is due: Gavin M. at lefty satire blog Sadly, No! has been on a bit of a tear in the past week, having found two instances where right-leaning sites have used fictional images to back calls for protests.
The first caught the
Gathering of Eagles using a photo illustration--a photoshopped image, in this instance--that showed Code Pink supporters carrying a banner that proclaimed, "We support the murder of American troops."
The problem is, Code Pink didn't make this particular banner...
these guys did, or at least they created the image.
To be fair, the
Gathering of Eagles were not the first nor the last to be taken in by this "fake, but accurate" image that does capture what many conservative feel are the real sentiments of some radical left wing groups, and the sign isn't that far off the mark from very real signs that have been carried by "progressive" protesters in the past.
Yesterday,
Sadly, No! once again caught a fake photo being used to support a protest, this time,
capturing FrontPageMag using an image from an obscure 30-minute Dutch indie film in promoting Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week.
This is a little more difficult to blame on the magazine (dubious as their credibility often is), as
reputable news organizations and
human rights groups have used the exact same image in the past, building up credibility for it as a legitimate photo, when in actuality it was not.
All the snark at
Sadly No! aside, in an age where image sources can sometimes be questionable and even relying on other media outlets can leave a blogger, magazine, newspaper, etc posting an image that is either staged, altered, misappropriated or mis-captioned, what is the best way to address the issue of correcting such misinformation?
How it Should Be Done (One Blogger's Opinion)
It seems that in many instances where a publisher gets taken in by bogus or mis-captioned images such as these, that the immediate reaction is defensiveness, which is human nature. We, as humans,
hate to be wrong, and it makes things worse when the credibility of the image/caption in question is typically brought about by a less-than-polite critic.
That said, it is wrong to ignore the issue and act as if the image is unquestionably accurate when it's credibility has been credibly challenged, and also wrong to simply remove it and act as if it was never there.
On July, 13, 2007, RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty ran the exact same image stoning image from the Dutch film, with the caption, "An Iranian woman is buried up to her chest before being stoned to death, though to have taken place some 20 years ago (file photo) (public domain)"
Ideally, in an instance such as this, the inaccurate caption could be corrected by something like this:
A dramatic depiction of a stoning from the 1994 Dutch film, De Steen. The photo was previously incorrectly identified as a photo from an actual stoning in Iran roughly 20 years ago.
Corrections don't have to be that hard.
In this particular instance, however, the problem is compounded for this news organization, because the same photo had been used by RFE/RL in
other stories as well.
In situations where a photo has become stock, and used multiple times, it is probably worth correcting both the captions, and creating a separate article explaining how the error occurred, and what steps will be taken to make sure such things do not occur in the future.
I have some sympathy for the various news outlets who were using this photo as the actual depiction of a real event. The actual source of the photo (filmmaker Mahnaz Tamizi) is probably unaware of the picture's by news outlets, and once a photo is used by one or more credible news outlets or organizations, it can readily become part of the "conventional wisdom."
That said, there are right ways and wrong ways to address corrections, and tossing the photo and caption "down the memory hole" and acting as if they never existed as
FrontPageMag has done, is an entirely unacceptable rewriting of history.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:54 AM
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1
I've been involved with workplace and church teaching over the years, and I've come up with a pretty good guideline:
Admitting you're wrong generally doesn't decrease your trustworthiness, it increases it.
If I can be relied upon to admit when I goof (and let's face it, we all goof from time to time), then I can be relied upon to tell the truth.
Alas, certain groups haven't learned that lesson yet.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 28, 2007 09:05 AM (sOYAM)
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Can't they see that the Code Pink photo is a joke, high satire? I thought they were more nuanced than that.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at September 28, 2007 09:29 AM (oC8nQ)
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Yes, I agree. The photo is fake but accurate.
Posted by: neil at September 28, 2007 09:44 AM (O0G+S)
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Can't they see that the Code Pink photo is a joke, high satire? I thought they were more nuanced than that.
Absolutely, yeah. We do Photoshops like that too, and our watermarks are even less visible (usually a semi-transparent 'Teh Sadly' on the least conspicuous corner).
The problem is that people were using the Code Pink photo as if it were real, and when we showed that it wasn't, the stories just shifted. The creator claimed that he took the text verbatim from Code Pink's website (and linked to it), but when we looked at the post, it wasn't true. People were saying that they'd seen the banner with their own eyes, and then that story shifted to "My friend saw it in California," and other things like that.
David Horowitz's people are now claiming that the Iranian stoning photo is genuine, that it was taken by a friend of a friend of a woman whom Horowitz quotes, and maybe it was 'borrowed' for the movie.
I don't want to get ahead of the plot here, but my opinion at this moment is that Horowitz is going to have to think of a better one.
Posted by: Sadly, No! Investor Relations at September 28, 2007 11:42 AM (knAhP)
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Credit where credit is due. It's always good to admit these mistakes and get them behind you.
Not doing so about the Rather memos hurt the left in 2004.
Posted by: Leftist at September 28, 2007 11:47 AM (h72md)
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Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 09/28/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
Posted by: David M at September 28, 2007 12:22 PM (gIAM9)
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Bohica22: Of course it was a joke, of sorts. All the Sadlynauts certainly recognized that. The point of Gavin's post was that a few GoE dum-dums tried to assert that not only was the banner real, but that they had seen it with their own eyes. That's what we Raleigh boys call "batsh*t crazy," ain't it, CY?
Neil: So you're willing to admit that the young George Bush went AWOL from the National Guard? Deal.
CY: Fair post, and very well-mannered comment over at SN (doubtless that Southern upbringing). To be sure, your comment met with some snark and distrust, but it did inspire a fairly eloquent response, re: "civil discourse," from a respected regular over there, Mikey; to wit:
Truth be told? I’m so tired of the shouting and the hatred and the us/them bullsh*t while the world goes up in flames, I welcomed the rational comment by CY. At some point we’re going to have to live together.
Here’s a question. How does it do us any good to force the gap wider, and encourage nothing but hatred and violence? If we can’t figure out how to stand for dialog, where do we get off saying war is not the answer?
Of course, there were plenty of demurrals, principally founded upon the belief that you're not to be regarded as a good-faith media watchdog. For example, this post does appear to be one of the very, very few where you even tangentially take on the vast fount disinformation that is the winger noise machine. Perhaps if you were to do more investigations of this sort--your own, and not just amplifications of the research of others--Mikey's vision of civil discourse could be realized at least a little. Hell, try listening WPTF's line-up once in awhile: Rush, LuMaye, Hannity, Levin, that's 10 hours a day of prevarication, quite the lode (or rather, load).
Posted by: Dolf Fenster at September 28, 2007 12:23 PM (dFzC2)
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Great post. Very adult.
Posted by: brando at September 28, 2007 01:01 PM (qzOby)
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Interestingly enough, perhaps, there are liars on both sides of the political spectrum -- neither side is immune. It's better for all if we just own up to mistakes and quit blaming everyone else. Thats a societal flaw that, also, exists on both sides of the political spectrum.
Posted by: Buddy at September 28, 2007 01:11 PM (aGQVo)
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Stunning. I can't even count the times I've been accused of playing the "fake, but accurate" card in defense of something done by Lefties (even when that's not what I'm doing). Now it's being used here, and it is being used with a straight face.
Second, when a Lefty media outlet gets something wrong, correcting the caption is never seen by the posters here as an appropriate response; it's painted as "rewriting history" or "hiding" the truth, and then there's the usual snark about how "those LIEberals apparently don't know about the cache." People here are always loudly calling for abject apologies and, in some instances, resignations.
Some small dribble of consistency would be appreciated.
Posted by: nunaim at September 28, 2007 02:44 PM (22/Qe)
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Dolf, first, I've got a strict no profanity policy, so I hope you don't mind that I edited your text very slightly to comply.
As for whether or not I'm "good faith media watchdog," I'm not even sure how that is defined. If you're suggesting that I should do a one-for-one, liberal biases versus conservative bias, I'll have to tell you that I'm sorry: I've been through journalism school and done my time as a media consumer and critic, and have to tell you that the bias is clearly left of center. My current targeting envionment is where the bulk of the action lies, as far as hard news bias exists (there is plenty of commentary on the right, of course, but the longer I'm around, the less I tend to write about commentary from either side unless it is truely, factually awful).
The problem so many of your compatriots have is that so many of them are so far left than even things that are left of center are far to the right of them. Likewise, I don't read Free Republic or several other hard-right sites becuase they're also heavily unbalanced to the point that they can't realize where the center is, either.
All that said, I've got a decent track record of leveling criticism against what you'd probably consider the "right wing noise machine," if that is what you're talking about.
I've tagged Fox News at least twice that I can think of for fact errors (including a miscaptioned photo) or sloppy writing in the past couple of months, have absolutely ripped a U.S. General for attempting to control media access, have tossed snark at Drudge a few times that I remember, and was the one and only blogger on either side of the aisle that put the time to run down and then eventually destroy a claim of a literal "smoking gun" of Iran providing weapons to Shia militias to target American soldiers. In 2004, when other conservative sites attacked photojournalist Kevin Sites for the footage he shot of a Marine shooting a wounded insurgent at point blank range, I stood behind him... and in my very first month blogging, at that. Those are just the incidents I can recall of the top of my head.
Am I a perfectly balanced, sterile, down the middle, opinionless media critic? Heck no.
But unlike some, I'm honest enough to admit my biases.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 28, 2007 02:58 PM (ScOBm)
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I've been brought up indirectly in this thread as I was the one questing CY, so let me explain a bit.
What stories people cover is their perogative and I have nothing against that. Sadly, No! does not often call out liberals, CY does not often call out conservatives. In my own blog I attack mostly conservative targets.
I did not object to CY focusing on liberal mistruths. What I objected to is CY participating in Media Myth Busters, which takes on the appearance of an unbiased source that attempts to be comprehensive but is obviously nothing of the sort.
This is a blog. The Media Myth Busters site masquerades as an impartial resource.
I will give credit to CY for his post here. Calling a horse a horse is something most people simply can't do when it's inconvenient. But at the same time I would say that while CY is honest enough to admit his biases here he doesn't carry that same spirit to the MMB site.
Posted by: RandomObserver at September 28, 2007 06:53 PM (/xKD2)
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Now, if only certain lefty media outlets and personalities (The New Republic and Dan Rather spring to mind) would admit when they are wrong, perhaps we could get some reasonable debate going in this nation.
The problem is, the reasonable lefties in this thread notwithstanding (and not all the lefties that have commented are reasonable--you know who you are, both reasonable and unreasonable), the predominant preference on the left appears to be not for a reasonable debate but for whatever dirty tricks are necessary to prevail, including outright fabrication of "stories" and "events."
Until and unless that changes, I will applaud and support (yes, financially) CY's efforts to expose their falsehoods.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 28, 2007 07:15 PM (sOYAM)
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"the predominant preference on the left appears to be not for a reasonable debate."
The same can be said of the right, or virtually any group. The predominant preference of *people* is not for a reasonable debate. Politics really has nothing to do with it.
I would say that your repeated use of the term "lefty" makes you one of the more unreasonable people. There are times when playing to the audience and using your particular derogatory lingo is appropriate but this probably isn't one of them. When you phrase things in that manner you are purposely dragging the discussion down into partisan name-calling.
Posted by: RandomObserver at September 28, 2007 07:28 PM (/xKD2)
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RO, I choose words to suit my purpose. I use the term "lefty" quite deliberately to refer to a certain type of individual.
You have not inquired what sort of individual I refer to by that term, you have simply assumed that I mean a certain subset of the population which includes you.
That, neighbor, is sloppy thinking. One should be willing to inquire about terms which are not well-defined in order to facilitate reasonable discussion and debate. Of course, in terms of a debate, asking for a definition of a term also frequently helps nail one's opponent down on a specific point.
You, on the other hand, have merely assumed what I meant. I do not state that the subset of the population I refer to as "lefties" includes you; I do not state that it excludes you. I merely state that since you have not asked if it does or not, nor for a definition of the term, you prefer to assume the worst and then smear me based upon your assumption.
Thus you are, albeit with some style, attempting to do what you accuse me of, dragging the discussion down into partisan name-calling.
The fact that you grasped upon that one word--"lefty"--instead of discussing the lack of admission of error on certain elements of the left also indicates that you are not interested in reasonable debate on the merits of admitting errors, rather on, as I stated earlier, dragging the discussion down into partisan name-calling.
As I said, you do it with style, and you use your words very well. But please don't assume that your goal isn't obvious to those who, like me, use our little grey cells for their intended purpose.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 28, 2007 07:58 PM (sOYAM)
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The interesting part is that the Sadly, No! commenter's are using that photo to mock Christianity in a disgusting way (there's a surprise!), deny Sharia, and deny that people are actually stoned to death in Iran and other Arab/Muslim countries.
Their failure to answer your question, instead going on little mocking rants, is behavior more appropriate to 5th graders. Except perhaps 2 comments.
And it is very telling that none of them actually seem to take up the cause of freedom for people such as women in Islamic countries, eh?
Posted by: William Teach at September 28, 2007 08:33 PM (NaHh8)
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You have not inquired what sort of individual I refer to by that term, you have simply assumed that I mean a certain subset of the population which includes you.
I assumed you used the word according to its commonly-understood definition and connotation.
You, on the other hand, have merely assumed what I meant. I do not state that the subset of the population I refer to as "lefties" includes you; I do not state that it excludes you.
Where exactly did I state or imply that I thought the term applied to me personally? Exact quote please. Be precise.
Thus you are, albeit with some style, attempting to do what you accuse me of, dragging the discussion down into partisan name-calling.
Except that I didn't actually do any name-calling and you quite literally did. "Lefty" is literally a partisan name for something, it is name-calling in the truest sense.
Using highly-charged, deragatory terms is a good sign that someone is not interested in good-faith discussion, something many of the wingnuts* here obviously wouldn't understand.
* = See what I did there?
If you want to accuse left-wing media sources of something go right ahead, I might even agree with you, but save the mocking lingo for discussions amongst the in-crowd. You've adopted the verbiage of someone attempting to preach to the choir.
It has nothing to do with me being offended; by word-choice you've signalled a posture of confrontation and exclusiveness. (Albeit perhaps inadvertantly)
Posted by: RandomObserver at September 28, 2007 09:17 PM (/xKD2)
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The interesting part is that the Sadly, No! commenter's are using that photo to mock Christianity in a disgusting way (there's a surprise!), deny Sharia, and deny that people are actually stoned to death in Iran and other Arab/Muslim countries.
If you are going to make accusations that strong you should provide quotes. I certainly haven't seen anyone, let alone multiple people, claim that people aren't stoned to death in Muslim countries. (And I don't know what it means to "deny Sharia") I assume you can produce direct quotations (not your own paraphrases) as evidence of that? Someone specifically saying in the Sadly,No! comments in their own words that Muslim stonings do not occur?
And it is very telling that none of them actually seem to take up the cause of freedom for people such as women in Islamic countries, eh?
I know for a fact that some members of the Sadly,No! community, some of which posted in that thread, are also members of communities that regularly blog about the rights of women in Islamic countries and other areas of the world.
Whether or not they "seem" to take up that cause is only a measure of how much research you did before making that claim.
This is a thread about accuracy in a blog about accuracy. It's not too much to ask for accuracy and precision in the comments.
Posted by: RandomObserver at September 28, 2007 09:27 PM (/xKD2)
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And once again you seek to deflect from the issue at hand (that of admitting errors) to what my words mean.
I hereby state, for the official record that I intended no offense; therefore, if you take offense, you do it upon your own volition and against my express wishes.
With that said, I hereby also state that any further red herrings about my choice of words will most likely not be answered, except perhaps to point out that once again, you are deflecting from the main point.
Your move.
Posted by: C-C-G at September 28, 2007 09:29 PM (sOYAM)
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Random, see, the great thing about Al Gore's Internet is one can click a link, and actually go look for oneself.
Amazing what we can do these days, eh?
Posted by: William Teach at September 29, 2007 02:07 PM (NaHh8)
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I've got to hand it to you, CCG. The sheer size of your huevos must be enough to stun a bull if you can get high-and-mighty over somebody not liking your choice of words like this:
With that said, I hereby also state that any further red herrings about my choice of words will most likely not be answered, except perhaps to point out that once again, you are deflecting from the main point.
...When you your own self have done the same thing--this time with the bonus shrill screech (accompanied, no doubt, by angry foot-stamping) to me here:
And it's not "ISP records." That's anti-Patriot-Act talk. What CY can see are your IP address records. ISP = Internet Service Provider, like AOL. IP = Internet Protocol, which includes the numeric address every computer online gets, among lots of other things.
Don't try to use terms if you don't know what you mean.
I simply didn't have the right vocabulary needed to convey my idea, and you were squealing like a little girl who's had her dolly taken away.
Consistency, my friend! It's not simply the hobgoblin of little minds--it's the quick credibility fixer-upper!
Posted by: nunaim at September 29, 2007 03:04 PM (eM912)
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So a photoshopped photo was used to illustrate a point, and included the words “photo illustration” right on it, with a website of the creators also included, and GoE was lying to people? This is an odd situation because, even though they took it as actual, it wasn’t stated literally as such, and was clearly tagged as Photo Illustration. The fact that some commenters from GoE asserted it's authenticity is no mark on GoE. They presented it as illustrative of a point, and it was clearly marked with "photo illustration". Isn't that enough?
They felt it was authentic at first blush because they’ve personally seen so much similar signage saying things like “support resistance in Iraq” which is actually saying “we support the murder of American Troops”.
Link
Posted by: douglas at October 02, 2007 03:41 AM (20QoQ)
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September 27, 2007
Uncle Jay Explains the Blogosphere
Via one of those neocon warmongers at
Hot Air. Get more Uncle Jay Explains,
here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Thanks for commenting over at our place, btw.
I actually don't have much of an opinion as to whether that pic should be a firing offense (or for whom), but Horowitz's people aren't the straightest shooters. There's a certain catch-us-if-you-can ethic at FrontPageMag and in Horowitz's other projects.
To be fair, he was probably the same when he was a radical lefty. There were a lot of ambitious, unscrupulous guys like that in the college-radical circuit in the '60s and '70s.
Posted by: Gavin M. at September 27, 2007 06:16 PM (knAhP)
2
Math is not the realm of the fabulist. Fortunately.
Posted by: Banjo at September 28, 2007 08:39 PM (1DQ52)
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