Delicious: An Analysist Suggests That Not Only Did Liz Cheney Not Help Kamala Harris, But Might Have Actually Driven Muslims to Vote for Trump (or Jill Stein)

Liz Cheney isn't a zero, she's a negative.

Remember when the Protection Racket Media swooned over Liz Cheney's endorsement of Kamala Harris? It turned out that they were the only ones swooning. Democrats became horrified to find themselves tied to the "neo-cons," while Republicans mainly scoffed. However, one particular demo that Harris and Joe Biden spent a year cultivating through an endless series of panders felt absolutely betrayed, NBC News reported yesterday.
Let's just call it the Dearborn Demo:

"There's been many ways in which Harris chose the path of Liz Cheney and the donor class on a range of issues, and abandoning working families in places like Dearborn, who make up the people Democrats claim to be fighting for," said Uncommitted National Movement co-founder Layla Elabed, a Palestinian American activist and the sister of Rep. Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich. "And I think at the same time, Trump came in and fed a community that was grieving and in despair with lies and false promises."
Trump ultimately ended up carrying Dearborn, a majority Arab American city in Michigan, by more than 6 percentage points -- a massive swing from Biden's nearly 40 point win there in 2020.

NBC does its best to obscure that fact by then pointing out that most of Dearborn voted "against Trump" in the sense that the majority of votes went to Harris and Jill Stein, but, as Ed Morrissey says, this is a very strange way to put it. Another way to put it is that while most of Dearborn voted "against Trump," an even larger "most" of Dearborn voted against Harris.

The point that NBC buries until the second half of the article is that the Dearborn Demo turned out ... but turned out for Trump. Why? Trump actually showed up in Dearborn and talked to the Muslim leaders there, while Harris made them trek to Flint for an audience.

She treated her precious Muslim voters with the same arrogance she treated Joe Rogan. And Call Her Daddy, for that matter.

And actually she treated union voters the same way.

[New York Post:] .A union leader revealed that Vice President Kamala Harris stormed out of a meeting on the campaign trail, arrogantly telling him she didn't need his support because she'd "win with you or without you" -- just before her crushing loss to Donald Trump.
...O'Brien said Harris finally agreed to sit with the Teasmstars for a roundtable after President Biden dropped out of the race, just to only answer a quarter of their 16 questions. Other candidates, including Trump, answered them all.
"On the fourth question, one of her operatives or one of her staff slips a note in front of me -- 'This will be the last question.' And it was 20 minutes earlier than the time it was going to end," O'Brien told Carlson.
"And her declaration of the way out was, 'I'm going to win with you or without you,'' he recalled.

Kamala Harris's argument for the Teamsters endorsement, one of the largest labor unions in the world, "You better get on board!"

They did not get on board.

Teamsters President Sean O'Brien on Kamala Harris: "Who does this f**king lady think she is?" pic.twitter.com/XAv42dfYFW
— Brigitte Gabriel (@ACTBrigitte) December 24, 2024

She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots.

Posted by: Ace at 01:50 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st

Posted by: RUReadingthis at December 27, 2024 01:50 PM (aQ25I)

2 The uniparty is deeply, deeply unpopular.

Making it obvious was, of course, a mistake.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 01:50 PM (4LF+x)

3 Well, she is pretty unappealing- plus evil.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 01:50 PM (bss/y)

4 I mean this is not Liz Hurley in Bedazzled.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 01:51 PM (bss/y)

5
Liz Cheney isn't a zero, she's a negative.

------------

OUT: She's a 0 or a 1.
IN: She's a -1, 0, or a 1.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 01:51 PM (NvDhY)

6 But Might Have Actually Driven Muslims to Vote for Trump

Vote for the guy with Jewish grandkids? Not seeing if from the goatfuckers.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:51 PM (E7mWg)

7 So we're going to see Cheney wearing orange?

Ohhhh the irony.

Posted by: torabora at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (9gcdx)

8 When celebrities are with me on my yacht sometimes we fucking people in the ass so hard the yacht starts rolling back and forth.

We call it "yacht rock."

Posted by: P Diddy at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (3SqIx)

9 It was a shotgun approach.

Posted by: Rimshot at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (dg+HA)

10 Vote for the guy with Jewish grandkids? Not seeing if from the goatfuckers.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:51 PM (E7mWg)

Instead of the woman with the Jewish husband

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (2NXcZ)

11 Liz Cheney... she has Gaylord's reverse Midas touch?

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (06nk1)

12 I think PDT being a business man is highly overlooked by MSM and (D).
And the debates about H1B visa and what is the real purpose are healthy within the party.

Posted by: Rhennigantx at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (EWUEp)

13 Diddy says I might have what it takes to be a music star, but that I gotta go through an "initiation" first.

Anyone knows what he means by that?

Posted by: Luigi Mangione at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (3SqIx)

14 Who said Kamala Harris ran a flawless campaign? Was it one of the brain damaged hags of The View?

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (QaVv1)

15 Liz Cheney can always go root for truffles...

Posted by: Life of Wryly at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (1FWWQ)

16 Liz Cheney's endorsement of Kamala Harris
.....

Lez Chinney just wanted to date her.

Posted by: wth at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (v0R5T)

17 12 I think PDT being a business man is highly overlooked by MSM and (D).
And the debates about H1B visa and what is the real purpose are healthy within the party.
Posted by: Rhennigantx at December 27, 2024 01:53 PM (EWUEp)

Vivek calling Americans "mediocre" in order to bring in more Indians was very stupid.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 01:55 PM (2NXcZ)

18 Liz Cheney isn't a zero, she's a negative.

------------

OUT: She's a 0 or a 1.
IN: She's a -1, 0, or a 1.

Posted by: ShainS

Attempting to grok the rulz. Is -1 the equivalent of 'not even with ace's ewok dick'?

Posted by: BifBewalski at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (MsrgL)

19 Liz Cheney would look good in prisoner fatigues, breaking rocks, with number 1/2 labeled on the back. Obama, of course, would have the number 0.

I don't know what number should be used for Kamala. Perhaps e, since she's irrational.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (VNX3d)

20 Liz is ate up with the TRUMP!!! curse.

Posted by: fd at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (vFG9F)

21 I so hope The Kackler is the dem's candidate in 2028.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (69cHI)

22 Who said Kamala Harris ran a flawless campaign? Was it one of the brain damaged hags of The View?
Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (QaVv1)

***

Joyless Reid

Posted by: Life of Wryly at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (1FWWQ)

23 Vivek calling Americans "mediocre" in order to bring in more Indians was very stupid.

I figure there will be a post on this later, but I have thoughts.

anyway - why was Kamala so sure? Obama told her it was in the bag? the whole thing was really odd

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (Pv3Rg)

24 I read a particular website (Not the “DU”

that is strongly leftist-lunatic, to get a read on what the Received Wisdom and Talking Point Narratives are for the week.

Lizzard evoked only a couple different responses, no in between mostly. Glee, as in nothing can stop Harris now, she is poaching all these wonderful Republicans (this was the majority by far, probably) and “WTF are they thinking?”, because “not one inch back” is the leftist refrain.

Now it is universally understood by everyone, this was a terrible idea. Uh-huh

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (SK57M)

25 Vote for the guy with Jewish grandkids? Not seeing if from the goatfuckers.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:51 PM (E7mWg)

Instead of the woman with the Jewish husband
Posted by: long night ending

Still not seeing it. Trump is the enemy.
They voted for her with Biden in 20. They could have easily sat out.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (E7mWg)

26 Attempting to grok the rulz. Is -1 the equivalent of 'not even with ace's ewok dick'?
Posted by: BifBewalski at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (MsrgL)

You go off to found a hermitage in a cave somewhere.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (bss/y)

27 Not even with a stolen dick at this point.

Posted by: Kermit the Frog at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (jVIPs)

28 >>Vivek calling Americans "mediocre" in order to bring in more Indians was very stupid.

That's a poor synopsis of what he said.
Listen to his actual words and tell me where he is wrong re. Modern American Culture Celebrating Mediocrity?

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (j6KoD)

29 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (Q4IgG)

30 Listen to his actual words and tell me where he is wrong re. Modern American Culture Celebrating Mediocrity?

are we doing this now? he didn't need to rip athletics and stuff in HS. it reeked of resentment on his part.

get over the jocks calling you nerd, nerd.

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 01:58 PM (Pv3Rg)

31 She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots.

-----------------

"All she needed was another $1.5 billion and a dozen more retarded celebrity ~~endorsements~~ whores, h8r!"

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (NvDhY)

32 I so hope The Kackler is the dem's candidate in 2028.
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent

Vance with four years under his belt and being the incumbent? Yeah.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (E7mWg)

33 Vice President Kamala Harris stormed out of a meeting on the campaign trail, arrogantly telling him she didn't need his support because she'd "win with you or without you" -- just before her crushing loss to Donald Trump
--------

Kamala Hubris

But remember Trump is the volatile chaotic one who can't work with anyone.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (VyqB4)

34 Democrats became horrified to find themselves tied to the "neo-cons," while Republicans mainly scoffed.
++++
Gee whiz, you mean that publicizing that the Uniparty is totally real made them unhappy?

Now the Dems get to learns what it's like to have a bunch of craven borderline retards latch on to them. Welcome to the party, pals.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (HnUIn)

35 Still not seeing it. Trump is the enemy.
They voted for her with Biden in 20. They could have easily sat out.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (E7mWg)

It's called October 7th and greenlighting the destruction of their Hamas heroes.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (2NXcZ)

36 Then: The Cheneys are warmongering genocidal maniacs that enjoy killing brown children

During the election: Of course those wingnuts will vote for us, Liz Cheney endorsed me. She's the sane kind of Republican you can work with unlike that Trump guy

Soon: Liz Cheney? Who?

Posted by: The left at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (oZhjI)

37 NERDS!!!

Posted by: Ogre at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (jVIPs)

38 "I'm going to win with you or without you,'' he recalled.
-------

So the woman does have the ability to speak clearly. Huh.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (VyqB4)

39 Don’t worry , Liz. I’m sure the White House will get back to you on that pardon real soon. Yep, any day now.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (u73oe)

40 I really like how the NeverTrump were citing to the endorsement of the War Sow as "Harris was building such a big coalition" as why they were so sure she was going to win.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (k16hl)

41 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.
Posted by: Martini Farmer
.......

Better be a sturdy f*ckin lamppost.

Posted by: wth at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (v0R5T)

42 NBC does its best to obscure that fact by then pointing out that most of Dearborn voted "against Trump" in the sense that the majority of votes went to Harris and Jill Stein, but, as Ed Morrissey says, this is a very strange way to put it. Another way to put it is that while most of Dearborn voted "against Trump," an even larger "most" of Dearborn voted against Harris.
++++
Yup. Like those infographics about homelessness. "2 in 10 homeless people are women" as the cause for concern. Odd way of saying "80% of homeless are men," isn't it? This is the same thing.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (HnUIn)

43 >>are we doing this now? he didn't need to rip athletics and stuff in HS. it reeked of resentment on his part.

He didn't rip anyone. He merely pointed out that idealizing one and discounting the other is not a recipe for embracing exceptionalism.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (j6KoD)

44 I agree that Vivek used some poor language politically but he was telling it like it is especially with the younger tech people.

You need to be "hungry" to make it and the natives seem to be quite complacent.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (QB+5g)

45 I wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad.

🤔

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (VyqB4)

46 A union leader revealed that Vice President Kamala Harris stormed out of a meeting on the campaign trail, arrogantly telling him she didn't need his support because she'd "win with you or without you" -- just before her crushing loss to Donald Trump.
++++
The Dem coalition is fragile and internally at odds with themselves. They may actually need labor to glue it together and provide margin.

Too bad the Dems are a vehemently anti-labor party.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (HnUIn)

47 I will never belong to or support a party that caters to goatfuckers... Ever

Posted by: Life of Wryly at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (1FWWQ)

48 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.
Posted by: Martini Farmer
.......

Better be a sturdy f*ckin lamppost.
Posted by: wth at December 27, 2024 02:00 PM (v0R5T)

How about a wind turbine? We'd at least get some use from them.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (VNX3d)

49 She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots.
++++
And full of joy. Don't forget the joy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (HnUIn)

50 I don't agree with the prescription of Visas for Foreign Workers...
but I won't disagree that our Culture has been rotted away by a cancer, from within.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (j6KoD)

51 46 The Dem coalition is fragile and internally at odds with themselves. They may actually need labor to glue it together and provide margin.

Too bad the Dems are a vehemently anti-labor party.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (HnUIn)

=======

I want the left to turn on labor unions, accusing them of voting irregularities.

It would amuse me.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (4LF+x)

52
That's a poor synopsis of what he said.
Listen to his actual words and tell me where he is wrong re. Modern American Culture Celebrating Mediocrity?
Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (j6KoD)

So Americas will still be expected to train their replacements with equally "mediocre" Indians and Chinese

And we will fill more and more STEM spots in major universities with foreigners with questionable scores on tests that can no longer be considered unhackable.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (2NXcZ)

53 > "I'm going to win with you or without you,'' he recalled.
-------
"They" told her the cheat was in the bag.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (Q4IgG)

54 I do recall the Muslim population of MI being rather unhappy about Big Gay and the left trying to trans their kids as well.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (oZhjI)

55 From a previous:
so a brown or black wetback** is an authorized unauthorized Texan;
so a white wetback is an unauthorized unauthorized Texan;

Makes sense?

** wetback = anyone illegally crossing the Rio Grande into the USA.

Posted by: Ciampino - Peperone, if I want 2 of them I'll ask ok at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (i0xsb)

56 Still not seeing it. Trump is the enemy.
They voted for her with Biden in 20. They could have easily sat out.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (E7mWg)

----------------

I figured Cornell West would get the Muslim vote -- but don't know if he was on the ballot.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (NvDhY)

57 Meh.

I have always liked “About eight feet of East river would look good on you.”

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (anZ4T)

58 Politics makes strange bedfellows.

The neos and dems in bed together was maybe the weirdest thing ever.

Like a clown fucking a T-rex.

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (iziT8)

59 "All she needed was another $1.5 billion and a dozen more retarded celebrity endorsements whores, h8r!"
Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 01:59 PM (NvDhY)

And maybe a brain and personality transplant.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (K861k)

60 I saw Dearborn Demo open for Bay City Rollers at the Pontiac Silverdome in '81.

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (Vyll1)

61 You need to be "hungry" to make it and the natives seem to be quite complacent.
Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (QB+5g)

So displace American workers at every opportunity and outsource whatever you can? FTS

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (2NXcZ)

62 "They" told her the cheat was in the bag.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (Q4IgG)

Sure looking that way isn't it

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (VyqB4)

63 Vote for the guy with Jewish grandkids? Not seeing if from the goatfuckers.

I saw a quote from a Michigan imam who endorsed Trump a few weeks before the election that was something like “once we have jobs and can afford food we can get back to the Jews”. Nothing like proclaiming Islam itself as a luxury belief, but I’ll take it.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (QZThv)

64 >>So Americas will still be expected to train their replacements with equally "mediocre" Indians and Chinese

Again, your interpretation of the words he uttered is at fault.

Not his Thesis.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (j6KoD)

65 And as Garrett has pointed out, people are paraphrasing what Vicek actually said because they got their feelings hurt (by some slick looking, Hindu MFer).

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (QB+5g)

66 You guys are weird...

Posted by: Kumswala Hair Ass at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (1FWWQ)

67 I wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad.

Yeah I mean, seems weird doesn't it?

Posted by: Some guy dropping off a cadillic full of votes at 3 AM at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (oZhjI)

68 She ran a flawless campaign

They misspelled disastrous

Posted by: It's me donna at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (VE6XX)

69 She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots.
++++
And full of joy. Don't forget the joy.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
.......

She cackled all the way to the bank.

Posted by: wth at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (v0R5T)

70 Wow, what an arrogant POS Harris really is. She either waaaay overestimated her support or she thought the cheat would usher her into the Oval Office. All those stories about her being a raging hag to work for, this is the kind of thing that cements that notion. She's a miserable human being. I will wallow in the glory of knowing her loss must've been unimaginable humiliation and a great shock to her.

Posted by: Lady in Black at December 27, 2024 02:05 PM (qBdHI)

71 22 Who said Kamala Harris ran a flawless campaign? Was it one of the brain damaged hags of The View?
Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (QaVv1)

***

Joyless Reid
Posted by: Life of Wryly at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (1FWWQ)

___________________________

Someone could probably make a pretty solid meme using the Chronicles of Riddick "Flawless" scene:

https://tinyurl.com/2p9cuea

Posted by: Orson at December 27, 2024 02:05 PM (dIske)

72 And I think at the same time, Trump came in and fed a community that was grieving and in despair with lies and false promises."

Jump up my ass. You're only sad because the animals you support got obliterated.

Teamsters President Sean O'Brien on Kamala Harris: "Who does this f**king lady think she is?"

Again, jump up my ass. You entitled thugs were finally treated with the respect you deserve.

Obviously I'm happy Trump won, but I'm certainly not willing to indulge either one of these groups.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:05 PM (xCA6C)

73 56 I figured Cornell West would get the Muslim vote -- but don't know if he was on the ballot.
Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:03 PM (NvDhY)

=======

America has learned that 3rd parties don't do anything and have given up on them.

They're deeply unserious vessels for political change that prefer to appeal to their worst internal voices than reach out to anyone else.

We saw spikes of interest through the 20th century with people like George Wallace and Ross Perot, but the 21st century has been very unkind to 3rd parties as they increasingly become irrelevant. The high water mark this century was 2016 when "everyone" agreed that the two nominees were trash, and then the LP put forward Gary Johnson who nominated a pro-Hillary guy for his VP.

Gary Fucking Johnson.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:06 PM (4LF+x)

74 Politics makes strange bedfellows.

The neos and dems in bed together was maybe the weirdest thing ever.
-------

Is it though? The neos were Democrats from Day 1.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:06 PM (VyqB4)

75 43 >>are we doing this now? he didn't need to rip athletics and stuff in HS. it reeked of resentment on his part.

He didn't rip anyone. He merely pointed out that idealizing one and discounting the other is not a recipe for embracing exceptionalism.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:01 PM (j6KoD)

They're using H1Bs for entry level accountants. What exceptionalism is needed for accountants?

Posted by: buzzion at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (aRLgQ)

76 The average lib may have forgotten that Cheney used to equal Hitler, but the Muslims probably didn't.

Posted by: sanforth at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (BudYP)

77 What a dumb cvnt.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (2ECE8)

78 I do recall the Muslim population of MI being rather unhappy about Big Gay and the left trying to trans their kids as well.
Posted by: 18-1

Never forget: Trump - literal Hitler

That trumps all else to the left. They spent 8 years demonizing him as literally Hitler. Some leftist group might sit out voting period, but they wouldn't vote FOR him. That's too much programming to overcome.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (E7mWg)

79 Trump is the first modern "third party" president. He just had the damn good sense to do it under the banner of one of the established parties.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (VyqB4)

80 Analysist?

Posted by: Mark1971 at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (szMU5)

81 Politics makes strange bedfellows.

The neos and dems in bed together was maybe the weirdest thing ever. ...
Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2024 02:04 PM (iziT

++++
Not really. If there's one thing that the Trump Era demonstrated, it was that most of them were already - and always had been - on the same team. The Uniparty is real, and Trump pissed it off so much that its members quit faking it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (HnUIn)

82 29 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 27, 2024 01:57 PM (Q4IgG)
----
Just don't stand underneath as corpses tend to drip.

Posted by: Ciampino - alive and rueing her past is better at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (i0xsb)

83 She's a miserable human being. I will wallow in the glory of knowing her loss must've been unimaginable humiliation and a great shock to her.
Posted by: Lady in Black at December 27, 2024 02:05 PM (qBdHI)

I just feel a deep pity for her. Way over her head at every turn, no idea that she was, flailing about trying to figure out who shivved her, when it was her all along. She's positively pathetic. I don't think you come back from a failure that big. I don't see how.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (K861k)

84 Trump dodged a bullet this year.

With everything coming out after the election about Kamala and her campaign, it looks like the entire country dodged a bullet.

She really would have been a disaster.
Even worse than President Vegetable on Vacation.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (6ydKt)

85 I saw Jump Up My Ass open for The Warmongering Dildos back in 86

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (VyqB4)

86 I think the upper echelons of the Democrat Party had talked themselves into believing that 2020 was honest, well, not less honest than any other election.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (4LF+x)

87 and then the LP put forward Gary Johnson who nominated a pro-Hillary guy for his VP.

Johnson's VP was less libertarian then either the R or even D VP that year.

Way to go guys...

Posted by: Some guy dropping off a cadillic full of votes at 3 AM at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (oZhjI)

88
Is it though? The neos were Democrats from Day 1.
Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:06 PM (VyqB4)

They were pseudo republicans who made money on fake support for Reagan, and fell in love with Obama (and the money they got for abandoning fair weather principles, leading us to "the conservative case for ....your choice of hard left policy"

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:08 PM (2NXcZ)

89 Trump is the first modern "third party" president. He just had the damn good sense to do it under the banner of one of the established parties.
Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (VyqB4)

***

He killed the repuke party and is now wearing it as a skin suit

Posted by: Life of Wryly at December 27, 2024 02:09 PM (1FWWQ)

90 Liz Cheney ought to observe a decent interval of total silence and eschewing all political activity. Maybe go quail hunting with her dad.

Posted by: Paco at December 27, 2024 02:09 PM (mADJX)

91 She's a miserable human being. I will wallow in the glory of knowing her loss must've been unimaginable humiliation and a great shock to her.
Posted by: Lady in Black
-----------

Bonus: I at least hope that the humiliating defeat has attached itself to her for the rest of her life.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:09 PM (XeU6L)

92 I wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad

Because she wasn't picking up what they were putting down.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 02:09 PM (E7mWg)

93 They're using H1Bs for entry level accountants. What exceptionalism is needed for accountants?
Posted by: buzzion at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (aRLgQ)

An exceptionally low starting salary

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:09 PM (2NXcZ)

94 "Teasmstars"

Holy spellcheck, Batman!

Posted by: pookysgirl's daughter still has spelling tests at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (dtlDP)

95 >>I think the upper echelons of the Democrat Party had talked themselves into believing that 2020 was honest, well, not less honest than any other election.

The Argument of/from Utility skips over the argument for the idealized result.

Consequentialists are never honest actors.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (j6KoD)

96 I agree that Vivek used some poor language politically but he was telling it like it is especially with the younger tech people.

You need to be "hungry" to make it and the natives seem to be quite complacent.

TSMC is trying to open a new fab in the US, and has already said that they're expecting to bring in some of their own people because "Americans haven't been interested in manufacturing for decades". It's perhaps an overstatement, but there is certainly an element of truth to it.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (xCA6C)

97 Harris probably figured all that cock she had to suck to get where she was entitled her to be prezzy. Isn't that how all this works???

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (69cHI)

98 "She treated her precious Muslim voters with the same arrogance she treated Joe Rogan. And Call Her Daddy, for that matter."

She treated these people the same way Willie Brown treated her.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (iFTx/)

99 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.

Posted by: Martini Farmer

...or an overpass, hombre.

Posted by: Manuel Labor at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (v0R5T)

100 99 Liz would look really good hanging from a lamppost.

Posted by: Martini Farmer

I'd prefer in an orange jumpsuit behind prison bars

Posted by: It's me donna at December 27, 2024 02:11 PM (VE6XX)

101 I also think that Kamala actually believed the press and their own spin that the economy was better under them. So yes get on board.
They believe that the Covid shut down was the entire 4 years of the Trump Era.

Posted by: Picric at December 27, 2024 02:11 PM (13tTk)

102 OUT: Flawless Victory
IN: Flawless Defeat

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (wtvvX)

103 I just feel a deep pity for her. Way over her head at every turn, no idea that she was, flailing about trying to figure out who shivved her, when it was her all along. She's positively pathetic. I don't think you come back from a failure that big. I don't see how.
Posted by: tcn in AK

If you don't know you are way in over your head, you are just clueless. When you look around you and go, "now what do I do?", and truly have no idea, that's a sign.

(Not you. The royal "you")

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (E7mWg)

104 'Jump up my ass' is an odd phrase.

*scratches head*

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (bss/y)

105 Liz's bathroom scale says she's not a negative.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (QzM4s)

106 And her declaration of the way out was, 'I'm going to win with you or without you,'' he recalled.
---------

Feel the JOY!!!!

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (VyqB4)

107 If people are really so stupid as to not realize that the goal of these H1-Bs and other migrants is to lower our standards of living (what Mayorkas calls 3rd world equity with Americans) then there's no point in talking to you.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (2NXcZ)

108 Maybe Liz should go on a helicopter ride...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (wtvvX)

109 Paper jumpsuit. Its real trouble then

Posted by: Deplorable Minion at December 27, 2024 02:13 PM (QSrLX)

110 "Palestinian American activist "
-----------
They could save a lot of syllables by just writing "terrorist.'

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:13 PM (6K6Eu)

111 It was a brilliant move.

Posted by: Plainoldtoast at December 27, 2024 02:13 PM (nzkG+)

112 Liz is Polling Booth Poison?

Well shut my mouth.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at December 27, 2024 02:13 PM (wBaIH)

113 Archimedes,

Hi tech manufacturing has been largely outsourced overseas and the folks who did that here are no longer available. It takes a while to build up some expertise.

I work in high tech manufacturing and the bulk of it that is here has survived because it is Defense related.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (QB+5g)

114 If people are really so stupid as to not realize that the goal of these H1-Bs and other migrants is to lower our standards of living (what Mayorkas calls 3rd world equity with Americans) then there's no point in talking to you.

I'll just have to pick up the shattered pieces of my life and move on.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (xCA6C)

115 The Democrats' Krazy Kwilt of Kontrary Konstituencies is coming apart at the seems. Not much left but the lunatic fringe - although, admittedly, the fringe is pretty big.

Posted by: Paco at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (mADJX)

116 Harris probably figured all that cock she had to suck to get where she was entitled her to be prezzy.
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (69cHI)

I wonder where she got that idea.

Posted by: Barry Soetero at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (VyqB4)

117 Re Vivek's comments: If American citizens are inferior to Indians in tech, then how about we fix that fact by improving Americans rather than importing a bunch of job stealing non-English speaking oddballs who send all of their gains back to India? Don't we want to keep our wealth here? He might want to check with Trump first next time he speaks about importing a bunch of folks.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (K861k)

118 "Teasmstars"

Holy spellcheck, Batman!
Posted by: pookysgirl's daughter still has spelling tests at December 27, 2024 02:10 PM (dtlDP)
---------
You haven't heard of "Battle of the Teasm Stars?"

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (6K6Eu)

119 Halp

Posted by: Liz's bathroom scale at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (v0R5T)

120 I don't know what number should be used for Kamala. Perhaps e, since she's irrational.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at December 27, 2024 01:56 PM (VNX3d)

Ace of Spades HQ: Come for the "No math!" rule, stat for the math jokes.

Posted by: pookysgirl, wife and mom to math lovers at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (dtlDP)

121 Mr. Trump may well have considered running as a Democrat at one time.

Recall that the usual suspects LOVED him, when he was donating $$$. When I first heard he was running in ‘16 my first inclination was to believe he was a spoiler to get Monica Lewinsky’s boyfriend’s wife elected.

I thought “Well give it a couple weeks. If he’s the real deal, the usual suspects will start screeching like wounded eagles.”

Yup

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (anZ4T)

122 I never understood the Cheney thing.

Absolutely nobody that views Liz Cheney as a hero would vote for Trump.

Nobody.

Somehow the Democrats got seduced by the fact that in the late Republican primaries Nikki! was getting 20% of the vote, and figured that could get those people to vote for Harris by appealing to Never Trumpers.

Idiots.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (uxCna)

123 Archimedes,

Hi tech manufacturing has been largely outsourced overseas and the folks who did that here are no longer available. It takes a while to build up some expertise.

I work in high tech manufacturing and the bulk of it that is here has survived because it is Defense related.

I use modern STEM grad school as an indicator. When 80% of many top groups are foreign students, it's not a sign of a healthy culture.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:15 PM (xCA6C)

124 Perhaps the constant demonizatio of Trump as literally Hitler is what persuaded Muslims to vote FOR him. Hitler is, literally and culturally, their hero.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at December 27, 2024 02:15 PM (69cHI)

125 49 She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots.
++++
And full of joy. Don't forget the joy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:02 PM (HnUIn)
----
Joy? I thought it was Tide (pods). Wait ... Joy is dishwashing ...

Posted by: Ciampino - a lawless campaign at December 27, 2024 02:15 PM (i0xsb)

126 122 Somehow the Democrats got seduced by the fact that in the late Republican primaries Nikki! was getting 20% of the vote, and figured that could get those people to vote for Harris by appealing to Never Trumpers.

Idiots.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (uxCna)

=======

DU was filled with comments for months repeating that idea.

This while it was against their terms and conditions to say anything about Kamala losing votes because of how the party got rid of Biden.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:16 PM (4LF+x)

127 "the goal of these H1-Bs and other migrants"

Their goal is to have a better life for themselves and their children.

They are from literal shitholes.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:16 PM (QB+5g)

128 Does anyone think that the Cheneys will give Kamala or the Dems some of that "hard earned" Haliburton money?
I didn't think so either

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 27, 2024 02:16 PM (URPU1)

129 104 'Jump up my ass' is an odd phrase.

*scratches head*
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 02:12 PM (bss/y)

Can't say that I ever issued that statement, not even once. No thanks.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:16 PM (K861k)

130 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (QaVv1)

131 I don't know what number should be used for Kamala. Perhaps e, since she's irrational.

Posted by: Hour
----
Therein lies the distinction between 'Euler' and 'oiler'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (XeU6L)

132 In The Future, universities will have entire departments devoted to Harris Failure Studies, a branch of the social sciences examining the causes and parameters of "failure" as a concept. The Harris campaign will be viewed as the foundational incident, dissected down to the minutest detail to discover the ultimate origin of failure.

Posted by: zombie at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (pMi6S)

133 Liz Cheney has boob sweat in December.

Posted by: Grapefruit LaCroix at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (GH18D)

134 "She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots."

"They" thrust Biden on us in 2020 despite his many problems. Their next test was to push an even worse, more malicious (DEI) candidate ... but a funny thing happened on her way to the forum.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (Cus5s)

135 the moral of the story: kamala is a blockhead

Posted by: gnats local 678 at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (CWTWj)

136 134 "She ran a flawless campaign, Bigots."

"They" thrust Biden on us in 2020 despite his many problems. Their next test was to push an even worse, more malicious (DEI) candidate ... but a funny thing happened on her way to the forum.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (Cus5s)

=======

Donald Trump fired Ronna McDaniel.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (4LF+x)

137 because they got their feelings hurt

You mis-spelled "got torpedoed by their own side".

Posted by: DaveA at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (FhXTo)

138 'Jump up my ass' is an odd phrase.
----------
Perhaps it's the reverse peristaltic version of "jump down my throat."

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (6K6Eu)

139 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?
Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (QaVv1)
++++
Impossible to know in fact, and therefore irrelevant.

The level of stupidity is so great that any addition to it is below detectable levels.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (HnUIn)

140 If American citizens are inferior to Indians in tech

The point is that the handful of truly brilliant foreigners can be let in via the existing "genius visa" - but almost all the H-1B are doing mundane tasks.

An electric utility in Portland has hired a lot of H-1Bs. They're not at the cutting edge of technology - they are doing absolutely routine engineering work that could easily be done by Americans.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (uxCna)

141 >>Re Vivek's comments: If American citizens are inferior to Indians in tech, then how about we fix that fact by improving Americans rather than importing a bunch of job stealing non-English speaking oddballs who send all of their gains back to India?

Again, he didn't prescribe that as the only solution. At best, you can infer from his comments that H1Bs would be a stop gap.
He most definitely prescribed a change in our value system that would preclude the need for increased H1Bs in the future.

This has devolved into the typical Female Argument of: 'It's not what you said...it's HOW you said it!'.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (j6KoD)

142 ++++
And full of joy. Don't forget the joy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix
----------

Unburdened joy.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (XeU6L)

143 "If American citizens are inferior to Indians in tech, then how about we fix that fact by improving Americans rather than importing a bunch of job stealing non-English speaking oddballs who send all of their gains back to India?"

Hey, it's not like this issue has been ignored. The fact is that STEM is hard and requires discipline and certain mental gifts that are not really valued in todays society.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (QB+5g)

144 The Democrat Krazy Kwilt of Kontrary Konstituencies is coming apart at the seems. Not much left but the lunatic fringe - although, admittedly, the fringe is pretty big.
——-

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet. They hate each others guts, but will work together, insofar to loot the public Treasury.

Wait till the dollar REALLY shits the bed, interest rates cannot fix this, ever. What happens when the money’s all gone, so to speak?

Yeah. Popcorn time. (Coconut oil is best for popping. Bacon drippings are tasty as well)

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (anZ4T)

145 75 They're using H1Bs for entry level accountants. What exceptionalism is needed for accountants?
Posted by: buzzion at December 27, 2024 02:07 PM (aRLgQ)

"They're willing to work 16 hour days for below market value. That's exceptional. You aren't."

--What the answer is going to be.

Posted by: XTC at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (UnA8+)

146 Booty Sweat > Booby Sweat

Posted by: Alpa Chino at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (i0F8b)

147 130 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?
Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (QaVv1)

A black hole singularity of idiocy.

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (K861k)

148 They knew a lot of low-fo voters knew the name Cheney and voted for Bush. It wasn't about appealing in particular to "Liz Cheney supporters".

It was a psy op for people to hear a famous "trusted" Republican name (remember Romney?) and think (again) "boy this Trump must be really bad if even the Republicans don't like him".

That's all it was. Most voters have no idea who the fuck she is, they just know the last name. Why didn't it work? Because Trump's message was too strong, too stout, too appealing and too powerful.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (VyqB4)

149 Belmont Club: Is Vivek Ramaswamy's Unpleasant Advice What We Need to Hear?

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:

Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.

A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.

A culture that venerates Cory from “Boy Meets World,” or Zach & Slater over Screech in “Saved by the Bell,” or ‘Stefan’ over Steve Urkel in “Family Matters,” will not produce the best engineers.

https://is.gd/ZkEOGm

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (xCA6C)

150 When Ace finally gets around to the Vivek Thread...he should cross it with the Woke Right Thread that (I assume) is also in the works.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (j6KoD)

151 In Harris Failure Studies, the unit of measurement is "the Kamala" defined as one quantum of failureness.

The anti-Kamala, formally known as "the Trump," is defined as one quantum of success.

Posted by: zombie at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (pMi6S)

152 146 Booty Sweat > Booby Sweat
Posted by: Alpa Chino at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (i0F8b)

=======

*waves seductively*
-Lance

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (4LF+x)

153 The level of stupidity is so great that any addition to it is below detectable levels.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (HnUIn)
---------
Requiring a quantum breakthrough in stupidity detection.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (6K6Eu)

154 Perhaps it's the reverse peristaltic version of "jump down my throat."
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:18 PM (6K6Eu)

I think I much prefer the standard 'Go fuck yourself' (implied: over there- by yourself.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (bss/y)

155 I doubt that Kamala ran her campaign in any sense. She was a puppet who only speaks when someone's hand is up her ass. Even so, her inept campaign wasn't that far away from victory.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (QzM4s)

156 Teamsters President Sean O'Brien on Kamala Harris: "Who does this f**king lady think she is?"

Chocolate vagina Jesus.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (PAa7I)

157 re 134: i think the dems before covid thought trump was going to win so the dem leadership figured "let's give it to joe, it's his turn."

didn't matter, the dems would have been happy with what they got done under joe. most of the other dem candidates would have done most of the same stuff, although they might have wanted to look like they were actually in charge.

Posted by: gnats local 678 at December 27, 2024 02:20 PM (CWTWj)

158 During the debates, which mattered, Trump brought the subject back to the border, the #1 winning subject for him and loser for them.

It worked.

Imagine how much more he could have won by if he wasn't lazy, out of control and actually did his homework.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (VyqB4)

159 Hey, it's not like this issue has been ignored. The fact is that STEM is hard and requires discipline and certain mental gifts that are not really valued in todays society.
Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (QB+5g)

How is it possible that we have an epidemic of autism and no tech geniuses?

Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (K861k)

160 148 That's all it was. Most voters have no idea who the fuck she is, they just know the last name. Why didn't it work? Because Trump's message was too strong, too stout, too appealing and too powerful.
Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (VyqB4)

========

Like all narratives around elections, there's the big story and then there's a thousand smaller ones.

Cheney is one of the small ones.

I suspect the move convinced maybe a few thousand fence sitters, on net, to not vote for Kamala. That combined with a dozen others makes up the difference in swing states.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (4LF+x)

161 I use modern STEM grad school as an indicator. When 80% of many top groups are foreign students, it's not a sign of a healthy culture.
Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:15 PM (xCA6C)

Our universities actively recruit foreigners who pay full tuition. And not a testing cycle goes by that the tests are not breached.

But then this is abetted by the likes of Mayorkas who firmly believes that equity, not equality, was our founding principle and that it must be global. He says poor mama fled communism, but what he means as she came as a missionary for Castro

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (2NXcZ)

162 Requiring a quantum breakthrough in stupidity detection.
Posted by: Captain Obvious
---------

Bosons vs. Bozos

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (XeU6L)

163 117 Re Vivek's comments: If American citizens are inferior to Indians in tech, then how about we fix that fact by improving Americans rather than importing a bunch of job stealing non-English speaking oddballs who send all of their gains back to India? Don't we want to keep our wealth here? He might want to check with Trump first next time he speaks about importing a bunch of folks.
Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:14 PM (K861k)

Because it's less about "talent" and more about willingness to put in 12-16 hour days at low-level positions.

Posted by: XTC at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (UnA8+)

164 The problem, as Vivek points out, is that China won't get with the decolonizing program, or rather, they have exempted themselves from it. "Be brutally honest," he writes. “'Normalcy' doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China." Europe has already had its ass handed to it by China.

Share of Global GDP in 2007: 1) EU: 25.2% 2) USA: 24.7% 3) China 6.1%

Share of Global GDP in 2024: 1) USA: 26.3% 2) EU: 17.3% 3) China: 16.9%

Only two months ago, Emmanuel Macron warned that the EU was only 2 to 3 years from irrelevance. “The EU could die, we are on a verge of a very important moment ... Our former model is over. We are overregulating and underinvesting. In the two to three years to come, if we follow our classical agenda, we will be out of the market.”

Choose wisely.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (xCA6C)

165 ... A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers. ...
Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:19 PM (xCA6C)
++++
Except that it did.

I don't disagree that there's a culture problem, but that isn't the culture problem. The culture problem is what is nowadays called "equity." Nobody is bad. Everybody is good. Everybody is a winner. Everybody is entitled to everything.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (HnUIn)

166 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (QaVv1)

--------------

She would be tending a very low bar.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (ywOyH)

167 But I thought the big bang theory made it cool to be smart. Only half joking.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (UKUm3)

168 If you want to have some fun - make discriminating against lower-caste Indians a violation of the civil rights laws.

Almost all the Indians in tech are Brahmins or other high-caste Indians, who refuse to hire lower-caste Indians.

California considered making discrimination against lower-caste Indians illegal, but quickly backed off, probably after massive amounts of screaming by Indian-controlled tech companies.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (uxCna)

169 >>>I wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad

I think her campaign staff just told her what she wanted to hear. By many accounts she's a terrible boss and worse human being, so it was a game of play along or get canned.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at December 27, 2024 02:23 PM (CwhoI)

170 >>How is it possible that we have an epidemic of autism and no tech geniuses?

This is among the dumbest things I have ever seen in the comments.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:23 PM (j6KoD)

171 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?
Posted by: Northernlurker

*********

I think transferring AOC from Congress to The View would instantly raise the average IQ of both institutions.

Posted by: muldoon at December 27, 2024 02:23 PM (991eG)

172 169 >>>I wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad

I think her campaign staff just told her what she wanted to hear. By many accounts she's a terrible boss and worse human being, so it was a game of play along or get canned.
Posted by: Citizen Cake at December 27, 2024 02:23 PM (CwhoI)

=======

This is also extremely likely.

No one brings her bad news until it's on the front page of the NYT, then someone's getting fired for letting the bad news happen.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:23 PM (4LF+x)

173 I love children's TV!!!!!

Posted by: Vivek at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (rS4lG)

174 Vivek has a point. While American boys are being counseled on things like wearing a dress and smoking pole (and “Math is Racist!” instruction in lieu of actual Math)

meanwhile

5th graders India are taking Calculus. It wasn’t that long ago leftists gushed over “Preparing Students To Compete In The Global Economy”.

I guess little boys are expected to compete .. with something.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (anZ4T)

175 Because it's less about "talent" and more about willingness to put in 12-16 hour days at low-level positions.

And being an indentured servant who loses their visa if they lose their job.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (uxCna)

176 But I thought the big bang theory made it cool to be smart. Only half joking.

I'd like to have the two blonde women from that show teach me about anatomy.

Posted by: Some Nerd at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (oZhjI)

177 I doubt that Kamala ran her campaign in any sense. She was a puppet who only speaks when someone's hand is up her ass. Even so, her inept campaign wasn't that far away from victory.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls
-------

She simply lacks both the intellect and experiece to be meaningful in any way.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (XeU6L)

178 How is it possible that we have an epidemic of autism and no tech geniuses?
Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (K861k)

The universities want money, they will take a Chinese or Indian national over an American of any background any day. They pay better. Then they will greedily try to place them in our critical industries and in our agencies. They've been at it for a while, now.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (2NXcZ)

179 Requiring a quantum breakthrough in stupidity detection.
Posted by: Captain Obvious
---------

Bosons vs. Bozos
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (XeU6L)
-----------
The stupidity detectors are runnin' red-hot! They canna take much more!

Posted by: LTCDR Montgomery Scott at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (6K6Eu)

180 Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (4LF+x)

Trump's debates and commercials are what won him the election. His message. He never stopped and he never wavered or "flip flopped". And he knew where he was strong with the electorate and hammered the shit out of it. People discount Trump's role in his own three wins at their peril.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (VyqB4)

181 170

This is among the dumbest things I have ever seen in the comments.

First day?

Posted by: Grapefruit LaCroix at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (GH18D)

182 Culture problem, my ass. It's the same shit as illegals and the construction industry: American employers want serfs; they are unwilling to pay Americans to do the work or to provide the kind of benefits American employees expect. Anyone who thinks tech and engineering employers aren't using the visa system the same way manual labor uses illegals is kidding themselves.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (QzM4s)

183 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?
Posted by: Northernlurker

********

If AAOC moved to Jellystone Park she would not be smarter than the average bear.

/Y. Bear

Posted by: muldoon at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (991eG)

184 Speaking of The View , AOC and Joy Reid on the stupid scale , I have heard nothing from the quantifier of stupid Sally Kohn of late. Millikohn and megakohn are still the standard

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (URPU1)

185 In the grand conflict of Bosons vs. Bozos, this busty brunette chooses "bosoms:"
http://tiny.cc/k263001

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (HnUIn)

186 How is it possible that we have an epidemic of autism and no tech geniuses?
Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (K861k)

The Left and Uniparty have made work as worthless a commodity as possible.

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (VyqB4)

187 As a former software engineer, I worked with a number of H1-B visa holders.

In addition to their greatest weakness — COMMUNICATION, which is the most important aspect in guaranteeing successful outcomes — these foreign workers are held hostage and will work a lot of overtime for no additional money (being on salary) because if their company fires them, they must either find a new job/sponsor quickly or leave the country (or stay and be here illegally).

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (ywOyH)

188 At my company which does high tech manufacturing, we've had an open requisition for almost a year looking for someone qualified to do what I do. If it was for fresh-out or a junior level, he would have hired one of the many available imported models but it's not.

There are precious few decent senior level native or otherwise engineers available in todays market.

People griping about this quite probably drive imported automobiles and don't get it.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (QB+5g)

189 Culture problem, my ass. It's the same shit as illegals and the construction industry: American employers want serfs; they are unwilling to pay Americans to do the work or to provide the kind of benefits American employees expect. Anyone who thinks tech and engineering employers aren't using the visa system the same way manual labor uses illegals is kidding themselves.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (QzM4s)
++++
It can be - and I think it is - both. There *is* a culture problem, which can often be summed up as "entitlement." There is also the "we'd much rather have serfs" problem.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:27 PM (HnUIn)

190 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?

I don't know if she'd move the needle on intelligence BUT she would improve their big juicy booty stat line

Posted by: Alex Stein (but not really) at December 27, 2024 02:27 PM (oZhjI)

191 >>>Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?

I think this qualifies as gain-of-function research and the safety of mankind depends on not pursuing it.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at December 27, 2024 02:27 PM (CwhoI)

192 And being an indentured servant who loses their visa if they lose their job.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (uxCna)

Exactly. And this also works with MDs and RNs from other countries as well. They work for less, work longer hours, and if the RNs are unionized the foreigners pay about half of their earnings for shitty hospital provided housing, usually onsite, and have no say over hours. Are any of them more skilled or better? No. They're cheaper, often overworked, and get kicked out when they make errors.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:27 PM (2NXcZ)

193 Of all the politically tin-eared, stupid things Harris did, embracing the Cheneys ranks at the top.

Posted by: Ordinary American at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (h/ffs)

194 And being an indentured servant who loses their visa if they lose their job.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (uxCna)

I'd say the illegals are pretty fucking entitled, and not all of them work.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (2NXcZ)

195 (i)wonder why Harris thought she had it in the bag if all the internal polling was so bad(/i)

Because math is racist.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (so8ze)

196 “Normalcy” doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China.

This can be our Sputnik moment. We’ve awaken from slumber before & we can do it again. Trump’s election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up. A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy; excellence over mediocrity; nerdiness over conformity; hard work over laziness.

... actually, much of academia are satisfied with "Abnormalcy"

I had my "Sputnik moment" just shy of 50 years ago when the microprocessor came on the scene. I've worked long and hard for some of the biggest companies, who were more than satisfied with "normalcy", probably hurting my health in the process.

Posted by: Barney the Dinosaur at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (RHGPo)

197 In addition to their greatest weakness — COMMUNICATION, which is the most important aspect in guaranteeing successful outcomes — these foreign workers are held hostage and will work a lot of overtime for no additional money (being on salary) because if their company fires them, they must either find a new job/sponsor quickly or leave the country (or stay and be here illegally).
Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (ywOyH)
++++
This is also the mechanism that drives wage compression in heavily H1B industries. When the foreigner *must* get a job or be forced to go back home, he'll take it at a lower price when push comes to shove. He might be able to afford to wait, but he can't wait anyway because the clock is ticking the moment he gets laid off (or he front-runs the layoff and takes less right out of the gate to improve selection odds).

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (HnUIn)

198 Let him who is without class awareness stone the first caste.

/Ancient proverb

Posted by: muldoon at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (991eG)

199 5th graders India are taking Calculus. It wasn’t that long ago leftists gushed over “Preparing Students To Compete In The Global Economy”.

I guess little boys are expected to compete .. with something.
Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:24 PM (anZ4T)

While that may be true ... I have worked with a lot of Indians, they are generally not very good at their jobs. Their culture involves a lot of bullshitting and fake bravado, which leads to a lot of Hijinx in the workplace.

That said, they're willing to work grueling hours for pretty cheap with the dream that they either make enough money to be rich back home and get set up with a beautiful wife, or the dream of living in the US and marrying an American girl.

PLUS, the have the advantage of showing diversity in hiring. So the tech companies hire them like crazy. Then Indians get in to the management and hiring positions, and only hire other Indians.

Long story short: we definitely don't need to expand h1b's. In fact, we should shut it down tomorrow.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (uCjyK)

200 Culture problem, my ass. It's the same shit as illegals and the construction industry:

The illegals are unskilled labor, and they work a lot harder than the unionized slackers because they actually value the job.

We're talking about the highly educated. Big difference. My nephew is in computer science at Ga Tech. He is one of the only white kids in his class.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (xCA6C)

201 I have three children all STEM majors, two are white males one white female

getting into good engineering programs (of which there aren't that many bc you need excellent instructors for them and they do not exist in bulk!) was very, very difficult. two of the three only got in due to ECs which were time-consuming but absolutely necessary for college admission, because they are white and domestic students.

colleges love foreign students they pay and they count as diversity. they also promote more hispanic and Black students into their engineering programs than should be there. by junior year that evens out, but to make this work as a white domestic student requires a lot of gumption and even possibly the willingness to transfer once things shake out - this is not easy and costs b/c you end up having to make up classes to get back on track.

the system absolutely stymies our young men who are natural STEM students in favor of foreign students and DEI. that's the truth. it was a battle to be fought, and loads of guys just say "fuck it." they know when they're not wanted! some go into the military high-tech manufacturing and energy programs instead (which is pretty wise)

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (Pv3Rg)

202 It can be - and I think it is - both. There *is* a culture problem, which can often be summed up as "entitlement." There is also the "we'd much rather have serfs" problem.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:27 PM (HnUIn)

I think people likely have the causation backward in domestic supply of certain kinds of workers: there's no point in getting certain kinds of degrees or technical qualifications if there are no jobs to get because they are already earmarked for foreigners on visas.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (QzM4s)

203 In the grand conflict of Bosons vs. Bozos, this busty brunette chooses "bosoms:"
http://tiny.cc/k263001
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:26 PM (HnUIn)
----------
I'd take the redhead from earlier. She clearly enjoys a good joke. This gal is saying, "Go on. Hit me with your best shot. See if I laugh."

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:29 PM (6K6Eu)

204 When you tell me Mexicans work harder than Americans, that has a ring of truth to it.

When you tell me Indians work harder than Americans, that sounds like a bunch of opportunistic BS from rich corporate types who want slaves.

Posted by: Common Sense at December 27, 2024 02:30 PM (rS4lG)

205 178 How is it possible that we have an epidemic of autism and no tech geniuses?
Posted by: tcn in AK at December 27, 2024 02:21 PM (K861k)

The universities want money, they will take a Chinese or Indian national over an American of any background any day. They pay better. Then they will greedily try to place them in our critical industries and in our agencies. They've been at it for a while, now.
Posted by: long night ending, dawn

This a well-known problem at UC Berkeley.

Tuition for in-state students is reasonable.
Tuition for out-of-state US student is much higher
Tuition for foreign non-US citizens is MUCH MUCH higher -- but the cost for teaching any category of student remains the same.

So the university has a financial incentive to admit as many foreigners as possible. Which they do.

There is state law mandating that a certain percentage of California high school grads are first i line for UC admission, but once that requiremnt is satisfied, CAl admits as many foreigns students as it possibly can -- mostly from Asia.

Walk around campus now, and it seems to be about 70% Asian -- both Asian-Americans (with high SAT scores) and overseas Asians.

Posted by: zombie at December 27, 2024 02:30 PM (pMi6S)

206 We're talking about the highly educated. Big difference. My nephew is in computer science at Ga Tech. He is one of the only white kids in his class.
Posted by: Archimedes
-----

Ha. A ramblin' wreck!

A joke that I make about myself.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 27, 2024 02:31 PM (XeU6L)

207 Vivek needs keep it to himself.
I suspect he's being a bit tribal as most of the H1B1 imports into Silicon Valley are Indians.

Silicon Valley has taken a deep dive towards shit the more the Indians take charge there.

They may work their asses off, cheaply, but they put out some of the buggiest code & overly-complicated software & apps ever produced... on the regular.

How was Twitter when Vijaya Gadde was General Counsel and running the moderation side of the company?
Has Google gotten better or worse since Pichai took charge?

Those are just two examples I can think of.
I'm sure we could spend all day going down the list of Indian-American screw-ups.

And then we can move on to India itself.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at December 27, 2024 02:31 PM (6ydKt)

208 "Kamala Harris wants to put y'all back in Cheneys!"

/Rev A. Sharperton

Posted by: muldoon at December 27, 2024 02:31 PM (991eG)

209 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (HnUIn)

Well said. There is also an entitlement expectation among many young adults that having 'earned' a college degree entitles them to a high level job and salary. They are not willing to take that 'entry level' engineering or accounting job but figure they ought to start off in at least middle management. Hopefully most get over that BS attitude, but the country is infected with a bunch of them that got government jobs either because of having one or more DEI checkmarks or the old crony method.

Posted by: PaleRider at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (UKUm3)

210 "I don't know if she'd move the needle on intelligence BUT she would improve their big juicy booty stat line
Posted by: Alex Stein "

She would bring the the hairline average a few inches back towards the forehead.

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (iziT8)

211 This is also the mechanism that drives wage compression in heavily H1B industries. When the foreigner *must* get a job or be forced to go back home, he'll take it at a lower price when push comes to shove. He might be able to afford to wait, but he can't wait anyway because the clock is ticking the moment he gets laid off (or he front-runs the layoff and takes less right out of the gate to improve selection odds).
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (HnUIn)

It's also a similar story with many hispanics in the construction industry -- they don't really need a lot of money to live.

They're mostly young men without kids. They live for cheap like fraternity brothers with a bunch of roommates. Oh, and they also got very dubious degrees at dubious colleges for nearly no money, and have no student loan debt to deal with.

So they can afford to work for cheaper, which drives down wages for the entire industry.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (uCjyK)

212 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at December 27, 2024 02:28 PM (so8ze)

Ahoy

Posted by: ... at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (VyqB4)

213 Long story short: we definitely don't need to expand h1b's. In fact, we should shut it down tomorrow.

well said Harry

this is a good thing to debate I'm glad it was debated even if hotly! it's important to take a look. people need to see what exactly is going on.

in olden times lol nepotism was not allowed in hiring - like I couldn't work at the same company as my husband, or at least not in the same department - this was a good policy which we're learning now! now you have nepotism by HR departments all over the place.

HR is really the crux of the. problem with DEI and the fact that they are lazy in general.

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (Pv3Rg)

214 The original intent of H1Bs was to allow America companies to hire exceptional/rare talent from overseas, but it is mostly used now to hire cheaper employees - at every big company I've worked at this was identified as the whole point of the H1b...

So to fix the system make the cost of an H1B equal to the salary for the position.This will end the use of just getting cheaper employees and still allow the use for true exceptional talent while strongly encouraging companies to develop people to have those rare skills

Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (oZhjI)

215 "Kamala Harris wants to put y'all back in Cheneys!"

/Rev A. Sharperton
Posted by: muldoon at December 27, 2024 02:31 PM (991eG)
------------
*golf clap*

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight, Concertina Czar at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (6K6Eu)

216 Who is this "Jill Stein" BTW?

Who bitch this is?

Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2024 02:33 PM (iziT8)

217 No discussion of Harris is complete without mentioning Willie Brown's Happy Endings.

Posted by: torabora at December 27, 2024 02:33 PM (9gcdx)

218 In the grand conflict of Bosons vs. Bozos, this busty brunette chooses "bosoms:"
http://tiny.cc/k263001
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

Lordy, I hate those glasses. Oh, right... what glasses?

Posted by: She Hobbit at December 27, 2024 02:33 PM (ftFVW)

219 I've been waiting for this ...

January 6 Political Prisoners Launch Historic $50 Billion Class Action Lawsuit Against DOJ

Posted by: SMOD, I grew up in a middle-class constellation at December 27, 2024 02:34 PM (RHGPo)

220 Who is this "Jill Stein" BTW?

Who bitch this is?
Posted by: eleven at December 27, 2024 02:33 PM (iziT

****
Another unfvckable.

Posted by: torabora at December 27, 2024 02:35 PM (9gcdx)

221 Illegals can remain in the United States to compete for jobs and housing, as long as they do not commit violent crimes, Mayorkas said in January 2022. “Unlawful presence in the United States, alone, will not be a basis for immigration enforcement action … it is a matter of justice and equity as well,” he told the U.S. Conference of Mayors in Washington.

He's not too fussy about violent crimes. The US is based on "equity" says the foreign born fuckface.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:35 PM (2NXcZ)

222 Better: "Jump up and bite my ass"
Moar better: "Jump up and bite my shiny metal ass"

Posted by: These fish sticks are hard as tits at December 27, 2024 02:35 PM (ofIy4)

223 I've worked with Indians, and they struck me as not much different than my American coworkers. This was especially true when I was over there. I learned quickly to give them five minute-breaks because they automatically added ten minutes to whatever I said. They also liked to chat and goof off. Nothing bad, just normal office stuff, but they certainly weren't the "Asian Superworker" I was told to expect.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at December 27, 2024 02:35 PM (CwhoI)

224 January 6 Political Prisoners Launch Historic $50 Billion Class Action Lawsuit Against DOJ

Unfortunately, that means WE will be the ones who pay. This should be against the personal wealth of all of those who perpetrated the J6 witch hunt.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:35 PM (xCA6C)

225 So to fix the system make the cost of an H1B equal to the salary for the position.This will end the use of just getting cheaper employees and still allow the use for true exceptional talent while strongly encouraging companies to develop people to have those rare skills
Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (oZhjI)
++++
People with unusual skill sets don't work for average pay.

If the H1B salary was mandated to be 110% of the in-company average for the position being filled (e.g., if the average pay for "Software Engineer Three" is $125k, the H1B "Software Engineer Three" must earn at least $137.5k), abuse would stop. Nobody will blink at paying 10% above average for a good, talented, skilled person. Everyone will scream at having to pay 10% above average for ... average or below.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (HnUIn)

226 Not one in a thousand “Progressive” understands that labor is subject to supply and demand. Wages.

Only a fucking idiot would advocate for “Open Borders” and then screech about high rent and low wages, and why can’t I afford “health care”?

Thank a Teacher

Posted by: Common Tater at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (19v1I)

227 "I suspect he's being a bit tribal as most of the H1B1 imports into Silicon Valley are Indians."

Yes, I said earlier that this is very tribal. And it's our tribe against theirs.

They are currently winning.

This has been obvious to some folks for a long time but no one really cares.

Vivek slapping people around about it is actually amusing.

Vivek

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (QB+5g)

228 Unfortunately, that means WE will be the ones who pay. This should be against the personal wealth of all of those who perpetrated the J6 witch hunt.

I hope Trump understands the point of tax and spend policy now is to reward your supporters and hurt your enemies.

So give the J6ers their big payday and then levy a tax to pay for it that will mostly hit blue areas.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (oZhjI)

229 Culture problem, my ass. It's the same shit as illegals and the construction industry: American employers want serfs; they are unwilling to pay Americans to do the work or to provide the kind of benefits American employees expect. Anyone who thinks tech and engineering employers aren't using the visa system the same way manual labor uses illegals is kidding themselves.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls

Also, I've seen what those code shops produce. You definitely get what you pay for--and wind up paying more to get someone with real skills to fix it later.

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (OUMaO)

230 218 In the grand conflict of Bosons vs. Bozos, this busty brunette chooses "bosoms:"
http://tiny.cc/k263001
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

Lordy, I hate those glasses. Oh, right... what glasses?
Posted by: She Hobbit

I see she is a devoted Christian as well, if the cross deep down in her cleavage is any indication.

"Rock-a my soul in the bosom of Abraham...".

I always wondered, when hearing that, why Abraham had bosoms. Old Testament tranny?

Posted by: zombie at December 27, 2024 02:37 PM (pMi6S)

231 The Left has been trying to come up with a way to get rid of Elon and Vivek. This is the latest and we are falling right into the trap. This is an issue that can be discussed and dealt with after we get immigration and the Deep State under control. It's not anyone's focus right now.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 27, 2024 02:37 PM (NQtI0)

232 >>So to fix the system make the cost of an H1B equal to the salary for the position.This will end the use of just getting cheaper employees and still allow the use for true exceptional talent while strongly encouraging companies to develop people to have those rare skills
Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (oZhjI)

Surely it would be more fun to just Cancel Vivek because he hurt some Feelz.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (j6KoD)

233 Also, I've seen what those code shops produce. You definitely get what you pay for--and wind up paying more to get someone with real skills to fix it later.
Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 27, 2024 02:36 PM (OUMaO)

Ditto with radiologists from an office in India.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (2NXcZ)

234 Maybe H1B visas should be auctioned off.

Posted by: Miklos has Ideas at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (xesY+)

235 Also, I've seen what those code shops produce. You definitely get what you pay for--and wind up paying more to get someone with real skills to fix it later.

Not my area, but if that's true, why do companies keep hiring them?

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (xCA6C)

236 214 The original intent of H1Bs was to allow America companies to hire exceptional/rare talent from overseas,
Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:32 PM (oZhjI)

We also have the E1 visas, which are for people with "extraordinary talent."

Also a huge scam. They have checklists of what that means by industry. There are companies out there who will essentially fake a resume for a candidate and set you up with a US immigration attorney (who are all at least somewhat in on it) who will submit your paperwork.

So, for example, to get an E1 for something sciencey, you need to show you had a certain number of articles published in scientific journals and that you have peer reviewed a specific number of articles.

So this company you hire churns out constant fake articles in you know, the "Hindustan Journal of Medicine" or whatever and gives you authorship.

So for less than $20k including lawyer fees, you can buy yourself a US work Visa

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (uCjyK)

237 Kamala! did run a flawless campaign. It was this country's inherent racism and misogyny, coupled with low-information voters (but we repeat ourselves) that cost us the election!!!!!

Posted by: DU commmenters & the MSM at December 27, 2024 02:39 PM (a3Q+t)

238 make the cost of an H1B equal to the salary for the position.

Plus an apprenticeship to train an American alongside them.

Posted by: DaveA at December 27, 2024 02:39 PM (FhXTo)

239 One uncommented upon fact is that Indian salaries have been slowly but surely closing the gap on American salaries.

Ten years ago you'd get 5 Indians for the price of one American. Now its 3.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:39 PM (oZhjI)

240 Surely it would be more fun to just Cancel Vivek because he hurt some Feelz.
Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (j6KoD)

I think he did more than that.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:39 PM (2NXcZ)

241 The original intent of H1Bs was to allow America companies to hire exceptional/rare talent from overseas, but it is mostly used now to hire cheaper employees - at every big company I've worked at this was identified as the whole point of the H1b...

---------------

In the mid-80s, I worked with a stellar software engineer from Tanzania; someone from the local university knew and wanted to hire him.

They were legally required to post the job opening publicly -- but to make sure that he would be hired, they tailored every aspect of the job opening in the ad to exactly match his background -- making him uniquely qualified for the position.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:40 PM (IYrqr)

242 "Maybe H1B visas should be auctioned off."

I think they already are at some level. And you can bet it's corrupt as hell.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:40 PM (QB+5g)

243 234 Maybe H1B visas should be auctioned off.
Posted by: Miklos has Ideas at December 27, 2024 02:38 PM (xesY+)

You think these university guys aren't on the take?

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:40 PM (2NXcZ)

244 >>I think he did more than that.

You promised you were Flouncing.

Now get on with it.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:40 PM (j6KoD)

245 H1Bs, like various other kinds of work visas, are not necessarily a bad idea. It is a good thing to get the best people, and for the best people to want to come *here.* The problem with the visa system across the board is the same as the program in virtually every other program, and elections systems, and most other things: the system is designed to be abused and gamed.

Fixing the visa system is pretty easy, which is why it isn't done. The visa system doesn't need to be burned down to the waterline. It doesn't even need significant modification. It just needs a proper enforcement mechanism that people don't *want* to game. Money is a good one. Mandate that the businesses involved pay these exceptional people what they're worth, and the problem will sove itself because there will then be no appetite to pay too much for mediocrity.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:40 PM (HnUIn)

246 Vivek slapping people around about it is actually amusing.

it was funny actually! it was such a self-own. it basically has tanked his political career I think, he won't be a senator now.

it started with Elon posting a reasonable thing about how hard it is to staff up for high tech - it was an interesting post and I will defer to him as he seems to know what the heck he's doing with that!

this was over the holiday and I guess Vivek was bored and jumped in needlessly! his first post (I'm assuming that's the one some here are saying I didn't read but I read them all!) was reasonable and made the point as Garrett describes. then LATER he went into the "we did extra math after school while white kids were at ball games" type stuff which I think is just dumb. really smart people do not need after school math ok? it's good to be varied in your pursuits. cram school turns out a lot of automatons.

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:41 PM (Pv3Rg)

247 Meanwhile back at the wood-chipper.

https://youtu.be/71wjUQfS5Is?t=440

Has it's own loader for street-clearing.

Posted by: DaveA at December 27, 2024 02:41 PM (FhXTo)

248 FOUR questions. four. The first was probably "How's it going?"

Let that sink in. They wanted her to answer 16 questions, and she allowed 4.

Trump, on the other hand, went all sorts of places he wasn't supposed to, and talked to all sorts of people that might surprise you.

Posted by: El Mariachi at December 27, 2024 02:41 PM (nLFEI)

249 January 6 Political Prisoners Launch Historic $50 Billion Class Action Lawsuit Against DOJ

Posted by: SMOD, I grew up in a middle-class constellation at December 27, 2024 02:42 PM (RHGPo)

250 182 Culture problem, my ass. It's the same shit as illegals and the construction industry: American employers want serfs; they are unwilling to pay Americans to do the work or to provide the kind of benefits American employees expect. Anyone who thinks tech and engineering employers aren't using the visa system the same way manual labor uses illegals is kidding themselves.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:25 PM (QzM4s)

Yeah, agreed. Companies would prefer to hire foreign serfs EVEN IF they get shittier product and it ultimately costs more money than to deal with American workers bitching about vacation time and health insurance and sick kids and that kind of nonsense. Plus they get DEI points, so... win win.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:42 PM (uCjyK)

251 Trump, on the other hand, went all sorts of places he wasn't supposed to, and talked to all sorts of people that might surprise you.
Posted by: El Mariachi at December 27, 2024 02:41 PM (nLFEI)
++++
He always has. Trump didn't walk to Marine One without throwing an impromptu presser for a half hour or more.

Trump was the most accessible, public and transparent president in the modern era.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 27, 2024 02:42 PM (HnUIn)

252 Ten years ago you'd get 5 Indians for the price of one American. Now its 3.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 27, 2024 02:39 PM (oZhjI)

Three little Indians out on a canoe,
One tumbled overboard and then there were two

Posted by: Ten Little Indians at December 27, 2024 02:42 PM (R/m4+)

253 e=∞∑n=01n!

I got stopped cold by stuff like this.

Posted by: torabora at December 27, 2024 02:43 PM (9gcdx)

254 Also, I've seen what those code shops produce. You definitely get what you pay for--and wind up paying more to get someone with real skills to fix it later.

Not my area, but if that's true, why do companies keep hiring them?

Posted by: Archimede

Because cheap, because short-sighted, because "we're too smart for that to happen".

Also, sometimes the code just never gets fixed properly, they just get the same shop to slap half-assed patch after half-assed patch on it for years, and by the time it blows up properly whoever was responsible has moved on.

Welcome to post-modern management.

Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 27, 2024 02:43 PM (OUMaO)

255 It's hard to pick the death blow for Kamala. I used to think it was McDonalds. But now - Joe Rogan. Not Trump's answers, but the fact he consented to be interviewed for HOURS. No cuts. Just showed up and talked. And had a great time doing it.

People liked that - a lot.

Posted by: El Mariachi at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (nLFEI)

256 BREAKING: Judge Rules Fani Willis Can Be Forced to Testify Under Oath About Crimes She Committed During RICO Lawfare Case Against Trump

Posted by: SMOD, I grew up in a middle-class constellation at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (RHGPo)

257 Points at Harris... Hahaha hahaha. Ah haha haha ah hahaha.

Not a fan of unions but I kinda like this Teamsters boss. He's blunt, to the point, and seems pretty dedicated to getting the best deal for his people. Seems to be the kind of guy who will work with anyone who is willing to work out a deal that benefits all parties. He thought that because the demoncrat are their traditional partners, they would be the best choice. He found out that working class and laborers are no longer important to the demoncrats.
I think he voted for Trump.

Posted by: Madame Mayhem (uppity wench) at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (4XwPj)

258 >"Americans haven't been interested in manufacturing for decades"

What a crock of shit. I work at a place in the US that manufacturers high-quality products. We do a lot of the process in-house, as opposed to outsourcing it to China. Plenty of people want to be hired by our company. This is coded language for "Americans won't kill themselves as indentured servants for peon wages."

What a huge disappointment that Ramalamadingdong and Musk decided to die on the hill of importing cheap tech and manufacturing labor and shit on the American worker in the process. Is Trump going to be owned by these two or is he going to put them in their place? Given the reactions here, it feels like we're back at Free Republic 2004, with "muh free markets" and all that drivel.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (D2qm/)

259 In the mid-80s, I worked with a stellar software engineer from Tanzania; someone from the local university knew and wanted to hire him.

They were legally required to post the job opening publicly -- but to make sure that he would be hired, they tailored every aspect of the job opening in the ad to exactly match his background -- making him uniquely qualified for the position.

This is SOP for science hiring. Many scientists don't think networking is valuable, but it is absolutely necessary in order to make the contacts you'll need to get hired.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (xCA6C)

260 Also, sometimes the code just never gets fixed properly, they just get the same shop to slap half-assed patch after half-assed patch on it for years, and by the time it blows up properly whoever was responsible has moved on. ...
Posted by: Brother Tim, Keeper of the Tim Continuum at December 27, 2024 02:43 PM (OUMaO)
++++
You want *how* much to tackle technical debt? We need people working on new features to stay competitive!

Posted by: Product Line Manager at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (HnUIn)

261 256 BREAKING: Judge Rules Fani Willis Can Be Forced to Testify Under Oath About Crimes She Committed During RICO Lawfare Case Against Trump
Posted by: SMOD, I grew up in a middle-class constellation at December 27, 2024 02:44 PM (RHGPo)

=======

It'd be really funny if the half-assed GA case against Trump ends up blowing up a significant portion of the dumber part of the Democrat's political operation at a national level.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, trying to figure out Joel Schumacher at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (4LF+x)

262 Not my area, but if that's true, why do companies keep hiring them?

because at this point the higher ups doing the deciding are also Indian

all of the IT people at Vanguard here are Indian-American or Indian H1-Bs, for example.

once you get a certain amount, they start hiring their fellows like crazy, many more than they would reasonably need. and I mention nepotism b/c if you check it's like, hired this guy then his wife then the brother and his wife... all are terrible coders but they want everybody here

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (Pv3Rg)

263 " "we did extra math after school while white kids were at ball games" type stuff which I think is just dumb."

Is it or maybe you don't get his point.

I do and I live in the world he is talking about.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (QB+5g)

264 166 Would the addition of AOC make The View stupider?

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 27, 2024 02:17 PM (QaVv1)

--------------

She would be tending a very low bar.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:22 PM (ywOyH)
----
Finally a tavern for dwarfs where they run no risk of being tossed.

Posted by: Ciampino - a lawless pair of bewbs at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (i0xsb)

265 I really think Kamala's staff, by direction from TPTB, were feeding her a bunch of bullshit about her chances in the run-up to the actual election. Whether she saw, or heard about the polls, and believed them, is debatable.

But I do honestly think she was fed bullshit to keep her focused on the campaign and that they felt reasonably sure they'd be able to shoehorn her in. One way or another.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 27, 2024 02:46 PM (Q4IgG)

266 Teamsters President Sean O'Brien on Kamala Harris: "Who does this f**king lady think she is?"
====

I've been saying for years.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at December 27, 2024 02:46 PM (RIvkX)

267 "FOUR questions. four. The first was probably "How's it going?"

Let that sink in. They wanted her to answer 16 questions, and she allowed 4."

She was only willing to answer the 4 questions. The rest she passed over.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 27, 2024 02:46 PM (KAi1n)

268 Is it or maybe you don't get his point.

he's wrong

I can't answer in short form. he doesn't understand brain development.

he doesn't understand that excellent memorization isn't going to transfer to creativity or inventiveness

look at our tech

it is stagnant

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:47 PM (Pv3Rg)

269 83 yr old Israeli Holocaust survivor stabbed to death by Pali screaming "Allahu Akbar". Killer was a former Shin Bet informant

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 27, 2024 02:48 PM (URPU1)

270 Had a friend who was an Oracle Apps Consultant for First American Title. Some 20+ years ago, he told me the company decided it would outsource all their software jobs to some Indian consultant firm.

He told me he was confident that in 6 months they would be begging him and others to come back; he was right, and demanded twice the pay -- and always referred to them afterwards as "First Indian Title."

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:48 PM (IYrqr)

271 A new fanny probe? Great!

Posted by: Pete BootyBoot at December 27, 2024 02:49 PM (dg+HA)

272 I do and I live in the world he is talking about.

I do as well

btw basically AI will remove all need for code monkeys then what?

robotics will remove all need for basic high tech manufacturing workers then what?

you need to be creative and going to cram school and never out of your parent's leash and never doing anything on your own or having time to think for yourself - you are less useful than a computer or a robot then.

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:49 PM (Pv3Rg)

273 268 Is it or maybe you don't get his point.

he's wrong

I can't answer in short form. he doesn't understand brain development.

he doesn't understand that excellent memorization isn't going to transfer to creativity or inventiveness

look at our tech

it is stagnant
Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:47 PM (Pv3Rg)

This is why even though I'm going to start trying to learn coding in the next year, I don't plan to ever look for work doing it.

If I had the natural intuition for it, I'd be doing it already.

This is just to try to prove to myself that I'm not as stupid as everybody (including myself) thinks I am.

Posted by: XTC at December 27, 2024 02:49 PM (UnA8+)

274 once you get a certain amount, they start hiring their fellows like crazy, many more than they would reasonably need. and I mention nepotism b/c if you check it's like, hired this guy then his wife then the brother and his wife... all are terrible coders but they want everybody here
Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (Pv3Rg)

Which is not surprising, since the same thing happens in India. Its a massive problem with all kinds of laws and quotas and affirmative action policies to counteract it, but it continues.

Basically people are hiring from their own clan / caste regardless of talent or ability to do the job. A job is a powerful thing to be able to give out, and the people in Indian society with the most power / money / etc. are people in positions to hire in any industry. My friends uncle worked recruiting for a major police force. He paid for my friend to get a US education.

But that mindset / culture does not mesh well with ours.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:49 PM (uCjyK)

275 267 "FOUR questions. four. The first was probably "How's it going?"

Let that sink in. They wanted her to answer 16 questions, and she allowed 4."

She was only willing to answer the 4 questions. The rest she passed over.
Posted by: SFGoth at December 27, 2024 02:46

Well in her defense, we've all seen that she's incapable of answering questions in any meaningful fashion so I'm not surprised she bailed.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 27, 2024 02:50 PM (pnMuZ)

276 Here's the issue on the muslims. Why would anyone think that members of a religion in favor of the hijab and burkha, that insists on male relative chaperoning women would vote for a woman President? I know that the Left has blinders on this point.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 27, 2024 02:50 PM (NQtI0)

277 Are you all not seeing the massive, coordinated propaganda push by the left to force a fight among Trump's team?

And you're falling for it?

Be better.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at December 27, 2024 02:50 PM (k16hl)

278 her declaration of the way out was, 'I'm going to win with you or without you,''

No True Democracy is dependent on voters.

Posted by: Kamala Harris at December 27, 2024 02:50 PM (Lh/d2)

279

I will suck your dick whether you like it or not! Dick sucking will make me President!

Posted by: Kamala's Pesky Rundown at December 27, 2024 02:51 PM (nfWZZ)

280 I assume Vivek would completely agree with Mayorkas. Lest we forget, this is why we're in the mess we're in and why DEI is the dem's hill to die on: https://tinyurl.com/3zmfxpzj

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 27, 2024 02:51 PM (2NXcZ)

281 "we did extra math after school while white kids were at ball games" type stuff which I think is just dumb."

Is it or maybe you don't get his point.

I do and I live in the world he is talking about.

The enrollment at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology here in NoVa is 72% Asian, and 17% white. Res ipsa loquitur.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:51 PM (xCA6C)

282 And one last note on the H1B issue: before we tackle this, we need functional schools again.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 27, 2024 02:51 PM (NQtI0)

283 "What a huge disappointment that Ramalamadingdong and Musk decided to die on the hill of importing cheap tech and manufacturing labor and shit on the American worker in the process."

One of Steve Bannon's raps on Musk has long been Musk's ties to China (Tesla, not sure what else). iirc Bannon also claims X still won't allow "complaints about China" since Musk wants to keep them happy.

There may be a place for some legally imported labor ... merit based, with necessary allegiance to America, not foreign/enemy countries. And phasing out current excess foreign workers may take some time.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 27, 2024 02:52 PM (Cus5s)

284 stabbed to death by Pali screaming "Allahu Akbar".

Hanukkah denier.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at December 27, 2024 02:52 PM (PAa7I)

285 Finally a tavern for dwarfs where they run no risk of being tossed.

Posted by: Ciampino - a lawless pair of bewbs at December 27, 2024 02:45 PM (i0xsb)

---------------

Heh.

Posted by: ShainS -- President-Elect Musk will appoint Vivek to Speaker Of The House! at December 27, 2024 02:52 PM (IYrqr)

286 282 And one last note on the H1B issue: before we tackle this, we need functional schools again.

yes

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:53 PM (Pv3Rg)

287 you need to be creative and going to cram school and never out of your parent's leash and never doing anything on your own or having time to think for yourself - you are less useful than a computer or a robot then.

There is a lot of truth in that, but it is also true that our students don't work nearly as hard on average. Furthermore, there is a benefit to taking the hard courses, generally STEM. It teaches you to think, and that is transferable to whatever else you want to do in life.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:53 PM (xCA6C)

288 The average IQ in the US is declining because of the invasion of low IQ peoples.

Indian H1Bs are not much of an improvement, but make great indentured servants. There are more Indians with STEM degrees than Americans, but who can their degrees represent quality learning?

I doubt Vivek said something stupid. I believe the media will deliberately miss quote or take things out of context to pretend he's dumb or bigoted.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at December 27, 2024 02:55 PM (wBaIH)

289 And one last note on the H1B issue: before we tackle this, we need functional schools again.

What we need is a willingness to fail those who don't measure up. That includes both students but especially teachers and administrators.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:55 PM (xCA6C)

290 Vivek has a point but I don't agree with his solution.

The solution is not to flood the country with H1Bs, it's to fix our schools and hiring practices. This country has produced more technology and engineering accomplishments than any other country in the world. Last I looked nobody else is walking on the moon.

But we let our schools become cesspools of social justice and turned hiring over to HR departments. We don't need to replace more Americans. We need to make Americans great again.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 27, 2024 02:55 PM (LkLld)

291 There's noting about memorization involved in developing math skills. Maybe that's the difference between good engineers and good doctors.

This is about H1-Bs "taking away" jobs from Americans because they will work cheaper because their artificial economic environment is more competitive hence they are "cheaper" (on the front end where the bean counters are in charge).

There is also the tribal element. That is just human nature.

If DC can cut away from all the lobbying and graft they can level the economic field and make Engineering Great Again.

Frankly until entrepreneurs like Elon started showing the public what can be done with a clean slate and a bunch of motivated engineers, engineering in the US was a dying field.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 02:56 PM (QB+5g)

292 There is a lot of truth in that, but it is also true that our students don't work nearly as hard on average. Furthermore, there is a benefit to taking the hard courses, generally STEM. It teaches you to think, and that is transferable to whatever else you want to do in life.

not my students. who btw all took every stem class their high schools offered.

and yet they watched the road paved in gold into top colleges bc of demographics. they needed to do a varsity sport just to get in - and now they are excelling, while the golden-road types are in soft degrees now.

this is why we lack tech kids - not lack of hard work, the best candidates can't get there due to preferences

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:56 PM (Pv3Rg)

293 It was a psy op for people to hear a famous "trusted" Republican name (remember Romney?) and think (again) "boy this Trump must be really bad if even the Republicans don't like him".
---
We had lots of dispatches from DU that prove this was the point:
"Get excited! She's building such a diverse coalition! Look at all the Republicans endorsing her!"

Yeah, a real 'Who's who" of rising stars and luminaries.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at December 27, 2024 02:56 PM (k16hl)

294 290 286 282 And one last note on the H1B issue: before we tackle this, we need functional schools again.

yes
Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:53 PM (Pv3Rg)

I'd say the reverse. If you want American education to be what it should be, then you need to cut off the means of allowing it not to be. In other words, if employers can't patch holes up with foreigners, they'll have to insist that the schools provide the workers they need.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 27, 2024 02:57 PM (XLQLg)

295 >Are you all not seeing the massive, coordinated propaganda push by the left to force a fight among Trump's team?

And you're falling for it?

Be better.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at December 27, 2024 02:50 PM (k16hl)

Oh, "the left" forced Vivek to say some stupid, insulting shit? Lol ok.

If he's that easily controlled by the left maybe he needs to step aside.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen at December 27, 2024 02:57 PM (D2qm/)

296 She was only willing to answer the 4 questions. The rest she passed over.
Posted by: SFGoth at December 27, 2024 02:46

Well in her defense, we've all seen that she's incapable of answering questions in any meaningful fashion so I'm not surprised she bailed.
Posted by: CaliGirl

You totally missed my pun. No afikoman for you!

Posted by: SFGoth at December 27, 2024 02:57 PM (KAi1n)

297 >>Vivek has a point but I don't agree with his solution.

Yep.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 02:58 PM (j6KoD)

298 There is a lot of truth in that, but it is also true that our students don't work nearly as hard on average. Furthermore, there is a benefit to taking the hard courses, generally STEM. It teaches you to think, and that is transferable to whatever else you want to do in life.
Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 02:53 PM (xCA6C)

My gut (and I could be wrong, I have nothing to back this up) is that we are far ahead of most of the world when it comes to "education" in the way we think about it. At least in public schools in the suburbs.

I think a lot of countries -- get this -- lie. And I know cheating is RAMPANT in many asian cultures. Like you're an idiot if you don't hire someone to take the TOEFL for you.

And I think Asian and Indian education focuses far too much on memorizing things and far too little on applying knowledge / intuition to situations.

For example, in US Math curriculum, calculators are introduced pretty early. It's important to know how to do the math, but your time is better spend learning the theory behind it then spending an entire school year memorizing multiplication tables. That's not true in India or China. They grade based on memorization.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at December 27, 2024 02:58 PM (uCjyK)

299 "but it is also true that our students don't work nearly as hard on average"

Those kids work very hard! Do you think it's easy keeping those pronouns sorted properly? And that social issues class! Man! That white priviledge section is HARD!!! They expect kids to know the victim hierarchy!!! IT CHANGES EVERY DAY!!!!

Posted by: Madame Mayhem (uppity wench) at December 27, 2024 02:58 PM (4XwPj)

300 Oh, "the left" forced Vivek to say some stupid, insulting shit? Lol ok.

yeah no lol

but I liked the discussion on X - yes it got heated but it is healthy! and healthy to do it here

pawn - I totally agree with your last post!

I love that Vivek kind of stepped in it and I love that we can agree and disagree and learn things! I changed my mind like ten times on this over the past three days!

it's ok to be wrong and it's ok to think things over and it's ok to change your mind

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 02:59 PM (Pv3Rg)

301 >>For example, in US Math curriculum, calculators are introduced pretty early. It's important to know how to do the math, but your time is better spend learning the theory behind it

Give them a stick and a string and show them how they can build a house using them.

BOTH systems neglect hands on experience.

Posted by: garrett at December 27, 2024 03:00 PM (j6KoD)

302 NOOD H1-B

Posted by: ShainS -- Eliminate vast bureaucracies of civil servants, no longer servants and no longer civil at December 27, 2024 03:00 PM (W35BD)

303 I think a lot of countries -- get this -- lie. And I know cheating is RAMPANT in many asian cultures.

This is true, but even so, the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese systems are far more competitive than ours.

And I think Asian and Indian education focuses far too much on memorizing things and far too little on applying knowledge / intuition to situations.

And they are starting to recognize this. The point is that they're adapting to make themselves more competitive, while if anything, we're hamstringing our best and brightest, while the middle descends further into mediocrity every year.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 03:01 PM (xCA6C)

304 The enrollment at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology here in NoVa is 72% Asian, and 17% white. Res ipsa loquitur.
Posted by: Archimedes

I went to Annandale, about 5 miles west of TJ. Senior year was the year before it became Sci-Tec. I, and 4 friends, took AP Chem 2 at TJ (we had to get ourselves there everyday so we usually carpooled). It was me, a Greek kid (from Greece), a Taiwanese kid, and 2 Vietnamese. We had a lot of Asians in my school, and by-and-large, they excelled. One kid from Vietnam had to spend an hour a day reading the dictionary after school. Those are the educational values they had.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 27, 2024 03:01 PM (KAi1n)

305 I think a lot of countries -- get this -- lie. And I know cheating is RAMPANT in many asian cultures. Like you're an idiot if you don't hire someone to take the TOEFL for you.

you are so right - they cheat here too (my kids' private schools had foreign students and the Chinese ones crowed about getting the SAT answers a day early - still not sure how they managed to get the answers in to the test site but it def happened and that entire test site had the tests cancelled)

Posted by: Black Orchid at December 27, 2024 03:01 PM (Pv3Rg)

306 it's ok to be wrong and it's ok to think things over and it's ok to change your mind

This is not the AOSHQ way.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 27, 2024 03:02 PM (xCA6C)

307 new thread, more about h1b or whatever it is

Posted by: gnats local 678 at December 27, 2024 03:03 PM (CWTWj)

308 "They expect kids to know the victim hierarchy!! It changes every day!!"

I beg your pardon.

Posted by: White Karen at December 27, 2024 03:03 PM (PKKgH)

309 It only takes one generation for things to change. Look at Japan and now China. They started out making junk and now they can produce world class stuff.

Offshoring started all this along with the proliferation of networking and PCs. Those of us that were around then all knew what the end game looked like and here it is.

But we also know that things change all the time. "Events my dear boy, events"

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 03:06 PM (QB+5g)

310 Nearly all employment problems stem from the fact that the management class wishes to pay nothing to enrich the class that is already rich beyond any practical purpose. They can't control material price or actual production cost but it is theoretically possible to lower labor cost. And Americans are not motivated to work hard for no reward. Foreigners need less to think they are succeeding. The main goal of globalism is to lower American expectations so that workers everywhere are cheap. Sounds Marxist, but Marxism/government does nothing but replace the management class with the less functional political class

Posted by: azjaeger at December 27, 2024 03:06 PM (J0zoA)

311 Cheating is a creative solution. Just ask Captain Kirk.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at December 27, 2024 03:08 PM (QB+5g)

312 Diddy says I might have what it takes to be a music star, but that I gotta go through an "initiation" first.

Anyone knows what he means by that?
Posted by: Luigi Mangione at December 27, 2024 01:54 PM (3SqIx)

It means the same as when you shot that guy - it's from behind.

Posted by: CTHillary, dead but dreaming at December 27, 2024 03:19 PM (zSyrn)

313 But that mindset / culture does not mesh well with ours.

You know, fish don't know they're wet. Perhaps by an accident of age, many here never saw 'ethnicity' in action except for racial equity drives -- but for most of the 19th and 20th centuries, each "ethnicity" that arrived had its own active hiring subculture, and God help you if you happened in from elsewhere and didn't have "an uncle in the Local." When we pretend that never happened and get haughty, well, that's what the white fragility is all about.

We presume a very great deal here, in the heat of action.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at December 27, 2024 03:29 PM (zdLoL)

314 Not all Muslims are Violence Prone just a a few who listen to the hardliners

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at December 27, 2024 04:50 PM (wGqjj)

315 It's always a pudgy white chick who thinks she is being cool. Stop drying to make gender switching a thing.

Posted by: wferrin at December 27, 2024 05:22 PM (NKvpw)

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