THE MORNING RANT: Was the EV Charging Nightmare in Chicago the “Exploding Pinto” Moment for the Electric Vehicle Transition; plus Other Bad News for EVs

For those of us who follow the electric vehicle industry closely, the dangerous failures of EVs and their charging infrastructure during a deep freeze is not unexpected. But the story about the nightmare scenario that played out in Chicago last week, with desperate EV owners unable to charge their cars in the midst of a harsh - but not unusual - cold snap, broke out across all media, with widespread coverage in print, television, and social media outlets.

This may have been the “exploding Ford Pinto” moment for the EV industry, from which there is no recovery. In 1974 the Pinto was America’s best-selling car, with sales exceeding 500,000 units. In 1976 there started to be media coverage of the vehicle’s risk of exploding from gas leaks during rear-end collisions. By 1978 Ford issued a recall and 60 Minutes did a feature story on the Pinto’s gas tank issue. Sales dropped below 200,000 that year and the Pinto was discontinued in 1980.

A few things stand out in the media coverage of the Chicago EV disaster, not only did the media report on the travails of the people who were the victims of EV ownership, but the media also did some reporting on why EVs and their chargers are so ineffective in cold temperatures.

Before we dive a little deeper into the desperate situation that EV owners went through, here are a few examples of the breadth of the coverage of the Chicago EV charging debacle. For people who get their news only from the mainstream media, this may have been the first time they were presented negative stories about operating an EV.

“Tesla owners say EV batteries won't charge as brutally cold temperatures hit Chicago“ [USA Today – 01/17/2024]

“Electric vehicle drivers stranded because of cold-weather charging problems“ [CBS News – 01/15/2024]

“Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather; In freezing temperatures, the batteries of electric vehicles can be less efficient and have shorter range, a lesson many Tesla drivers in Chicago learned this week.“ [NY Times – 01/18/2024]

“Tesla Disaster As Cars Won't Charge in Freezing Cold“ [Newsweek – 01/17/2024]

“Here’s why electric cars don’t go as far in the cold“ [CNN – 01/16/2024]

Being stranded in dangerously cold weather is simply terrifying, and there are an abundance of anecdotes and quotes about the EV graveyards that were found in Chicago and other frozen cities. Here is an example:

“Chicago-area Tesla charging stations lined with dead cars in freezing cold: 'A bunch of dead robots out here'” [MSN / Fox Business – 01/16/2024]

"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent," Tyler Beard, who had been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook, Illinois Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon, told the news outlet. "And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday."
Beard and several other Tesla owners were trying to charge their cars amid long lines and abandoned cars at other Tesla charging stations in the Chicago area, the news station reported.
"This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.
Mizelle said she abandoned her car and got a ride from a friend after hers would not charge.

The hassles of maintaining a charge are so ubiquitous that even the simple act of parking a “fueled up” vehicle at the airport and expecting it to be available to drive when you return is not applicable to electric vehicles.

Kevin Sumrak told the Fox station that he landed Sunday night at Chicago O'Hare International Airport and found his Tesla dead and unable to start. He was forced to hire a flatbed tow truck to haul the vehicle to a working charging station.

As Mark Twain is alleged to have said, “There is nothing to be learned from the second kick from a mule.” A great many EV owners have received a very painful “first kick,” and this lesson will likely cause a significant number of them to forego the desire to ever again experience the exclusive eco-virtue of trying to charge a dead EV in winter.

*****

As CBD and JJ Sefton have kindly mentioned on these pages, I have been extended the opportunity to share my passion regarding electric vehicles and related topics at The Pipeline (the-pipeline.org), which is run by Michael Walsh, a friend to the Ace of Spades HQ blog, and a periodic guest on the Cut Jib Newsletter podcast (which can be accessed on the sidebar.)

My first column was published this past week: “Electric Vehicles: Running on Empty”

In it I wrote the following:

This past year was the year that “the EV transition” stalled. The coming year of 2024 will be a year for legacy auto manufacturers to address the financial reality that their EV investments are an unrecoverable sunk cost. Their survival and future profitability will require them to re-focus on being profitable manufacturers of ICE vehicles (which include “hybrids” rather than being failed mass-market EV manufacturers, a niche for which there is no “mass market.”

I wrote that piece before the story broke about the total breakdown in the ability to charge EVs in Chicago during winter.

2023 was a year in which it became evident that the mass market of automobile consumers had rejected electric vehicles, and that there would not be an “EV transition.” After the Chicago incident, 2024 is now shaping up as the year in which consumer rejection of EVs turns to outright consumer revulsion.

Don’t be surprised if 2020s-era electric vehicles are someday remembered as fondly as 1970s-era Ford Pintos.

*****

I usually try to space a little more time between my periodic roundups of EV stories, but the EV industry is imploding so fast that I’m already falling behind. Here are some other stories that have recently broken:

*****

“Hertz is selling 20,000 EVs so it can buy more gas guzzlers” [The Verge – 01/11/2024]

The rental car agency said in a regulatory filing today that it will sell 20,000 vehicles, or roughly one-third of its global EV fleet, and use that money to buy gas guzzlers. The decision was made after Hertz reported higher depreciation and damage than expected to its EVs, amounting to $245 million in costs for the company.

The higher damage costs that Hertz incurred relate to how even small fender benders can cause catastrophically expensive repairs, especially if the battery needs to be replaced, which is often required in even the smallest of fender benders.

As for the additional depreciation charge, the rental car business model does not include taking an additional write-down against balance sheet value when selling vehicles being retired from rental status. Hertz badly misjudged the re-sale value of these vehicles when purchasing them.

In addition, the consumer rejection of EVs is so thorough that people don’t even want to drive an EV when they rent a car…

Also, Hertz apparently couldn’t find enough customers for the EVs in its fleet, so selling a huge chunk of them will “better balance supply against expected demand of EVs,” the company said. The company had previously set a target for 25 percent of its fleet to be electric by the end of 2024.

Also, it is apparently deleterious to an electric vehicle if it is actually driven in the manner in which gasoline vehicles are routinely driven.

Hertz’s problem is a bit unique. Of the 100,000 Teslas acquired by Hertz, half were to be allocated to Uber drivers as part of a deal with the ridehail company. And while drivers said they loved the Teslas, they also tend to drive their vehicles into the ground. This higher rate of utilization can lead to a lot of damage — certainly more than Hertz was anticipating.

Hertz has apparently learned quite a bit in its first kick from the mule, and is seeking to avoid a second kick.

*****

Ford’s flagship EV is failing so spectacularly that it is hard to keep up with all the announcements about production cuts. Barely a month after announcing it was halving the scheduled production of Ford F150 ~~Conflagrations~~ Lightnings, Ford is already being forced to cut production further.

“Ford is cutting F-150 Lightning production again amid ‘slower than expected’ demand” [Electrek – 01/19/2024]

Ford is cutting Lightning production (again) as demand slips. Ford announced plans Friday to reduce F-150 Lightning output to “achieve the optimal balance of production, sales growth and profitability.”

Bill Ford and his CEO Jim Farley had drunk the EV Kool-Aid from their globalist, eco-communist friends, so they radically overcommitted to this boutique, dead-end technology. Now they are desperately trying to adjust EV production from their original goals to align with actual consumer demand, or to be more specific, the lack thereof.

The news comes after Ford already cut production at its Rouge EV plant in mid-October. Ford spokesperson Martin Gunsberg confirmed to Electrek that the facility has been running with three crews working two shifts. It will now go down to one crew working one shift. The changes go into effect April 1, 2024.

The dramatic cuts in EV production still probably won’t be enough. When Ford previously announced that it was halving its production of the unpopular electric truck, unit assembly was cut from 3,200 unit per week (approximately 150,000 units per year including down time) to 1,600 units per week (approximately 75,000 units per year.) But based on total 2023 sales of just 24,165 Lightings, this is still triple the actual demand. With early adopters having already bought their EV pickups, and dealer inventories of these limited purpose vehicles growing, Ford still hasn’t cut enough.

*****

Another way to write the headline immediately below might be ”Half of Ford Dealers Have Declined to Opt-In on EV Sales, Service”

“Ford says half its dealers are waiting to opt in on EV sales, service” [Detroit Free Press – 12/21/2023]

Half the Ford dealers in the nation, or some 1,550, have chosen to stick with selling hybrid and internal combustion engine vehicles only in 2024, waiting to decide whether to make the investments needed to sell and service electric vehicles, the Detroit Free Press has learned.

The cost to a Ford dealer to be EV certified is up to $1,200,000. A lot of dealers who previously committed to the EV boondoggle are backing out.

The latest data provided by Ford indicates a cooling-off period with dealers. A year ago, the Free Press reported that Ford CEO Jim Farley had "secured commitments" from 2 out of every 3 dealers to go all-in on selling EVs.

There were originally 1,920 dealers signed up to be EV certified, so the math would indicate that 370 Ford dealers have since decided to call it off before putting a million-dollar ring on their EV engagement.

At that time, Ford said it had enrolled 1,920 dealers in the voluntary Model e Program for the initial 2024 to 2026 periods. Some dealers later withdrew, Gunsberg confirmed.

*****

Most of the critical correspondence I receive from EV fans will start with something like “Buck, you really need to educate yourself about EVs.” I generally reply, politely, that because EVs require taxpayer subsidies to entice consumers to buy them at all, and because EV advocates are pressuring legislative bodies to ban gas-powered cars so as to eliminate consumer choice, that is all I need to know about how atrocious EVs are. They clearly cannot compete in the real world without government incentives and the removal of competition.

This development isn’t going to help the death spiral that has descended on the EV transition…

“More EVs lose US tax credits including Tesla, Nissan, GM vehicles” [Reuters – 01/02/2024]

Many electric vehicles lost eligibility for tax credits of up to $7,500 after new battery sourcing rules took effect on Monday, including the Nissan Leaf, Tesla Cybertruck All-Wheel Drive, some Tesla Model 3s and Chevrolet Blazer EV, the U.S. Treasury said.
The Treasury issued guidelines in December detailing new battery sourcing requirements aimed at weaning the U.S. electric vehicle supply chain away from China. They took effect on Monday.

Of the 43 all-electric vehicles on the market, only 19 remain eligible for the tax credit. Other EVs no longer eligible include the Volkswagen ID.4, BMW X5 xDrive 50e, Cadillac Lyriq, Ford E-Transit, and Audi Q5 PHEV 55.

*****

Where there are government mandates and tax credits, corruption will follow.

“The Electric-Vehicle Cheating Scandal; A government rule makes them look nearly seven times as efficient as they are” [WSJ – 01/16/2024]

When carmakers test gasoline-powered vehicles for compliance with the Transportation Department’s fuel-efficiency rules, they must use real values measured in a laboratory. By contrast, under an Energy Department rule, carmakers can arbitrarily multiply the efficiency of electric cars by 6.67. This means that although a 2022 Tesla.
Model Y tests at the equivalent of about 65 miles per gallon in a laboratory (roughly the same as a hybrid), it is counted as having an absurdly high compliance value of 430 mpg. That number has no basis in reality or law. For exaggerating electric-car efficiency, the government rewards carmakers with compliance credits they can trade for cash. Economists estimate these credits could be worth billions: a vast cross-subsidy invented by bureaucrats and paid for by every person who buys a new gasoline-powered car.

I took a dive into some of these tax credits a few months ago, and documented how Tesla is receiving up to $12,350 per unit in tax credits that it can then sell to other car manufacturers who need to purchase EV tax credits in order to sell the gasoline powered cars that their customers desire.

“Distorted Markets - Tesla’s Amazing Revenue Stream from EV Credits” [Buck Throckmorton – Ace of Spades HQ – 6/16/2023]

By being all-electric, Tesla earns various government credits for exceeding arbitrary thresholds on carbon emissions and EV sales. These arbitrary thresholds are set by the climate communists that control California and other left-wing governments. Other auto manufacturers who don’t sell many EVs can be fined or prohibited from doing business in those locales for not meeting those thresholds. So instead, they are paying Tesla for its excess credits to remain compliant with the laws of those states.

*****

There is so much more going on in the failing world of EVs, but this is enough for one day.

Have a great week.

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st?

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:00 AM (f79f5)

2 FIRST!!

SPONGE!!

Posted by: SturmToddler at January 22, 2024 11:00 AM (bving)

3 I'll take it!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:00 AM (f79f5)

4 ok, i got first sponge. so that works

Posted by: SturmToddler at January 22, 2024 11:01 AM (bving)

5 No sponge.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:01 AM (4p0Xq)

6 Nooded the Art aficionados.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:01 AM (f79f5)

7 Oh, no!

Anyway...

Posted by: Owners of real cars at January 22, 2024 11:02 AM (NBVIP)

8 it's ok, global warming will save them

Posted by: brak at January 22, 2024 11:02 AM (AR07F)

9 Hehe he, too funny.

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:02 AM (fwDg9)

10 And a good number of these idiots would buy another one in a heartbeat.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 11:03 AM (R4t5M)

11 That poor a-hole trying to push a 5000 lb Tesla on the icy parking lot. LMAO.

Posted by: Little Larry Sellers at January 22, 2024 11:03 AM (xaNfJ)

12 Wh-ewe!
A new thread.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 11:03 AM (W/lyH)

13 The Pinto being the number 1 car in America tells you everything you need to know about the 70's in America.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (sX1BW)

14 How do EVs do in extreme heat? I know my cell phone won't charge in high heat.

Posted by: Northernlurker at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (SExFt)

15 Q-Why won't my EV start when it's cold out?

A- There's no gas in it.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (VwHCD)

16 Ford’s flagship EV is failing so spectacularly that it is hard to keep up with all the announcements about production cuts. Barely a month after announcing it was halving the scheduled production of Ford F150 Conflagrations Lightnings, Ford is already being forced to cut production further.

“Ford is cutting F-150 Lightning production again amid ‘slower than expected’ demand” [Electrek – 01/19/2024]

Ford is cutting Lightning production (again) as demand slips. Ford announced plans Friday to reduce F-150 Lightning output to “achieve the optimal balance of production, sales growth and profitability.”

I'm expecting a news release that Ford will produce fractions of an EV truck per week. Gotta keep that line humming.

Posted by: That guy who thinks everything is AI at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (CsUN+)

17 I saw Exploding Pinto open for Social Distortion at the Salt Shed last year...

Posted by: Inogame at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (53oGX)

18 No, no, it'll be fine once Klaus Schwab exterminates 90% of the global population.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (sm6Pk)

19 Whoops. Archimedes = That guy who thinks everything is AI

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:05 AM (CsUN+)

20 Posted elsewhere but again Congratulations Buck

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:05 AM (fwDg9)

21 The libtards with their EV's will brush this off and move on as if nothing happened.

The media: "Nothing happened."

Posted by: Martini Farmer at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (Q4IgG)

22 A buddy of mine had a blue Pinto well into the 80s. We used to laugh at him but he didn't see the need to move on. It isn't like America was producing a lot of good cars at that point.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (CsUN+)

23 Beard and several other Tesla owners were trying to charge their cars amid long lines and abandoned cars at other Tesla charging stations in the Chicago area, the news station reported.

"This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

Mizelle said she abandoned her car and got a ride from a friend after hers would not charge.

Fuck you. Walk. You shouldn't receive ANY ice benefits.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (SbJgO)

24 Wh-ewe!
A new thread.
Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 11:03 AM

ISWYDT.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (jA9ul)

25 The rental car agency said in a regulatory filing today that it will sell 20,000 vehicles, or roughly one-third of its global EV fleet, and use that money to buy gas guzzlers. The decision was made after Hertz reported higher depreciation and damage than expected to its EVs, amounting to $245 million in costs for the company.

That hertz.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (4p0Xq)

26 The libtards with their EV's will brush this off and move on as if nothing happened.

The media: "Nothing happened."

They'll try, but this is their money, not yours. They won't repeat the error.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (CsUN+)

27 Answering the headline: No

Those who want them or those who don't won't be persuaded either way.

And the reply to cold charging from EV supporters is: well figure it out / this is growing pains. (Though the issue has always been present and got headlines this time)

Though, a few will trade in their EVs or buy ICE.

The downfall, IMHO, will be when these owners in 5-10 years have to replace their batteries. Hence, 2035 to stop all ICE buying options in many states and to be fully locked into EVs.

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (FxH7T)

28 Top Secret 2: Frigid Conflagration Boogaloo.

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:08 AM (vQ+cR)

29 Greetings! Most cars sucked during the 1070s.
I owned a Pinto with a stick shift for a time. Did all my own maintenance on it too. I seem to have survived the experience. Then I had an AMC Pacer and it was a piece of crap.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:08 AM (MeG8a)

30 The downfall, IMHO, will be when these owners in 5-10 years have to replace their batteries. Hence, 2035 to stop all ICE buying options in many states and to be fully locked into EVs.

But EVs have been out for awhile, and the market segment that's interested in them is saturated. Battery replacement is looming, and the owners of those EVs are in for a shock.

ICE sales will NOT stop, no matter what CA says.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM (CsUN+)

31 26 They'll try, but this is their money, not yours. They won't repeat the error.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (CsUN+)

They'll just ask for bigger subsidies, so that it WON'T be their money.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM (sm6Pk)

32 And a good number of these idiots would buy another one in a heartbeat.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 11:03 AM

And we just need some more sweet, sweet gubmint $ to make it work!

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM (4p0Xq)

33 They'll try, but this is their money, not yours. They won't repeat the error.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:06 AM (CsUN+)

They'll just ask for bigger subsidies, so that it WON'T be their money.

President Trump will laugh at them.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (CsUN+)

34 30 ICE sales will NOT stop, no matter what CA says.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM (CsUN+)

How many states have signed those stupid "We'll adopt every stupid thing California does" declarations, again?

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (sm6Pk)

35 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …

Posted by: tubal at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (PCK5/)

36 Electric cars won't work in bitter cold? Simply shocking!

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (tkR6S)

37 29 AMC Gremlin. They were sure vacuum wipers would make a comeback.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (0EOe9)

38 Are there any statistics on Tesla owners - how many own another car v. Tesla being their sole car?

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (sX1BW)

39 Hopefully this whole EV craze collapses completely, and we can get back to drilling and mining

energy production drives prosperity

Down with wind & solar farms, which are a blight on the 'fruited plain'

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (geLO8)

40 EV's are stupid and pointless but they are going to be jammed down our throats weather we want them or not.

All of if extra-legislatively and outside of representational government.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (rc3Z7)

41 Well, at least none of those EVs will get carjacked.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (9yWhg)

42 The Treasury issued guidelines in December detailing new battery sourcing requirements aimed at weaning the U.S. electric vehicle supply chain away from China. They took effect on Monday.

Bwahahahahahahaha!
Without China, those sources don't exist.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:11 AM (SbJgO)

43 It's strange people could live in the Midwest and not understand that battery performance degrades in the cold.

Have you never started your ICE car on a cold morning and noticed it takes longer? Or that part of winterizing your car is making sure you have a good battery?

It's as though tech has gotten so advanced people just assume it can do anything, or they lack the intellectual curiosity to learn about how things work, or both.

"It's a Tesla. It's super magic tech. It's impervious to cold!"

Posted by: brak at January 22, 2024 11:11 AM (AR07F)

44 Someone dumb enough to live in Chitcago deserves an EV.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:11 AM (XetL6)

45 Boondoggle

Posted by: Ben Had at January 22, 2024 11:11 AM (7+zq2)

46 35 Joe Xiden?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:11 AM (9yWhg)

47 Mizelle said she abandoned her car and got a ride from a friend after hers would not charge.

An ICE vehicle I would imagine.

hehe - it is to laugh.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (qoGsy)

48 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …

-

Montec, help us out here. What was that old handle?

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (2WOSG)

49 I gotta say Buck that this is probably my favorite non-Ace recurring article on the site.

I have a personal EV story to relay.. well two actually. Both having to do with the F150 Golf Cart edition.

While we up here in the land of state-sanctioned voter-suppression Maine didn't get the frigid blast that the midwest got - it was down in the teens overnight and low 20's for most of the week and this weekend. My neighbor has an F150 Golf Cart and I noticed that at least 3 days last week, he took his Audi Q5 to work instead of his normal F150 Golf Cart. Hmm. Wonder why.

My second story has to do with another F150 Golf cart doing ACTUAL TRUCK stuff and offloading some storm debris at the landfill. He had unloaded his bed (I was pulling in with my H1-M1102 full of tree debris) and was stuck on the ice. He couldn't get traction in a particularly hard frozen rut. I had my recovery gear (always do) and just gave him a little tug to get him back on earth. Whereupon his dash started alerting him to < 5% battery left and to find a charger. He said when he got stuck it was at 30%.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (Hyfwy)

50 Well, at least none of those EVs will get carjacked.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

How much copper is in them? I know a few meth heads.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (SbJgO)

51 Musk skinning the effete… no tears from me..

Posted by: tubal at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (PCK5/)

52 Saw a video this weekend in a shopping mall it looks is walking along inside and her pocketbook burt into flames from her phone self destruction app.

Doubt she was a Impossible Mission agent more likely her battery

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (fwDg9)

53 "Up to 1.2 million", nope small Ford Dealership my company brokered a few years ago signed up for that. Its a very small TN dealership, mostly does Fleet sales for its parent company.

Cost to complete the program, 2.2 million. They had to make massive changes to their new facility on top of the tools, training etc. They canceled it during the summer.

Even better! Ford is unable to produce enough Maverick small trucks to fill customer demand, which is a small hybrid truck with very good mpg.

Worse they messed up the Bronco rollout so bad, I ordered two Broncos on day 1. First took 2 years and 4 months to get, the second took 2 years 8 months to get. I ended up flipping them both and bought another Toyota 4Runner.

Posted by: AFlyingSQRL at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (5qQor)

54 That hertz.
Posted by: Minnfidel

Ewe nailed it.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (f79f5)

55 All I can say is:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Just wait a couple more years as the battery replacement fiasco picks up speed.

Here's a hint: They are so expensive as to make the vehicle basically worthless......

Posted by: zooomzooom at January 22, 2024 11:13 AM (rfnUk)

56 You'll never convince me that the entire "EV Revolution" is nothing more than an orchestrated wedge to destroy the internal combustion engine industry. This is confirmed by the fact that no effort is being made to upgrade the power grid (which is already straining) to accommodate the increased electrical power use.

The ultimate goal is to take away personal transportation and force people towards urban settings. They want you living in cities while corporations reap the benefits of non-urban real estate (inclusive of all food production).

Posted by: Orson at January 22, 2024 11:13 AM (dIske)

57 Good Morning Rant; thanks.

Harvard Business Review, Government
"How Cash For Clunkers Failed American Taxpayers"
by John Quelch, August 21, 2009
Today, let us celebrate the end of an unjustifiable drain on the US taxpayer: the Cash for Clunkers (C4C) program.

Fifteen years, by far enough for many to forget - and others to never have known - that debacle which, really, is simply being reworked and replayed. (The government always circles back - every 7 years or so - much like the entertainment industry.)

Also see Solyndra Energy company, ceased operations 2011.

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:13 AM (GshMh)

58 The Treasury issued guidelines in December detailing new battery sourcing requirements aimed at weaning the U.S. electric vehicle supply chain away from China.

The Department of the Treasury?

The Leviathan must leviathate.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (qoGsy)

59 How much copper is in them? I know a few meth heads.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:12 AM (SbJgO)

They should do a bait car Tesla and see how many crack addicts they can fry.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (R4t5M)

60 So do early adopters become early abandoners or are they more likely to be bitter clingers. In other words s it a first in first out scenario or a first hired last fired type thing?

Posted by: Muldoon at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (991eG)

61 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …
Posted by: tubal

Xiden, he outed himself as a friend of the other troll raimondo just before the last stolen pres election.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (f79f5)

62 Interesting that so many of the MSM headlines are Tesla specific .Gotta destroy Elon at any cost.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (WFBbt)

63 If Musk was still in good standing with the libs, the denizens of DU would be screaming that this is all a ploy by republicans to sabotage Musk and EVs.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (KbCG3)

64 Oh no! Awwww.

Posted by: The Flaming 20s at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (vFG9F)

65 Anyway...

Posted by: The Flaming 20s at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (vFG9F)

66 With the EV tax credits they are nothing but a bribe to the upper class to by them . Without they aren't going to sell to anyone. Either way they're an environmental bomb. A friend is a firefighter and they way he was told to put out a EV fire us to come back in three days

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (wJraq)

67 You know you've hit the Big Time when you quote yourself, eh?

Posted by: Muldoon at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (991eG)

68 61 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …
Posted by: tubal

Xiden, he outed himself as a friend of the other troll raimondo just before the last stolen pres election.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (f79f5)

Yes, he was a paid plant...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (exHjb)

69 >Well, at least none of those EVs will get carjacked.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

--

XLNT point- I never thought of that
I wonder what the stats are on Tesla thefts

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (geLO8)

70 This wasn't really an attack on EVs generally. Unless I missed one, none of these articles even suggested rethinking pimping these the EV pieces of shit. This was primarily an attack on Tesla[iv]. Elon Musk is now the bad guy and must be destroyed.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (iFTx/)

71 The Pinto being the number 1 car in America tells you everything you need to know about the 70's in America.
Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (sX1BW)

There was a "gas crisis" on. Pintos were peppy, had an overhead cam 4 cylinder engine made of cast iron, not aluminum, and had precise rack & Pinion steering. They were fun to drive. And the dangers of the fuel-tank issue were massively overstated.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (tkR6S)

72 How do Teslas do trying to drive through standing water?
Like rain flooded roads.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (1Zjbf)

73 I just dropped another $3k on my car, routine maintenance, it's a 2001, but I own it, it has low mileage and most importantly, I fit inside of it, which is more than I can say for most modern vehicles, including the new Rav4 I rented last year.
Cars today are designed for the "average" size person, which I ain't.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (MeG8a)

74 This wasn't really an attack on EVs generally. Unless I missed one, none of these articles even suggested rethinking pimping these the EV pieces of shit. This was primarily an attack on Tesla. Elon Musk is now the bad guy and must be destroyed.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (iFTx/)

75 I should look up how much a F-150 Golf Cart weights

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (fwDg9)

76 “Hertz is selling 20,000 EVs so it can buy more gas guzzlers” [The Verge – 01/11/2024]
_____

Gas guzzlers? Like a '82 Lincoln Town Car? I'm going to guess they are using a bit of hyperbole here, Hertz will buy gas sippers, rather than gas guzzlers.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (fs1hN)

77 If you want to see the EV buyer/enthusiasts understanding of cars, go read the comments in this thread.

Electrek
Dead Tesla cars pile up at Chicago Superchargers in extreme cold

http://tinyurl.com/5n897x4t

The commenters are doing their best to convince people that ICE cars also don't start or run during cold weather, and that oil freezes up prevents proper operation of engines.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (2WOSG)

78 I’m generally a fan of EVs but would never rent one. Because renting one (assuming I’m out of town) means having to rely on public charging stations. That is a no from me dawg. Charging at home, great. Charging out in the wild, that’s still a few years away from being reliable and easy.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (WFBbt)

79 >>My second story has to do with another F150 Golf cart doing ACTUAL TRUCK stuff and offloading some storm debris at the landfill.

All vehicles are depreciating assets, the idea that someone would pay upwards of 100k and more for something that will essentially be a paperweight in 10 years or less is ludicrous.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (rc3Z7)

80 Probably not far off a Bradley FV

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (fwDg9)

81 The ultimate goal is to take away personal transportation and force people towards urban settings. They want you living in cities while corporations reap the benefits of non-urban real estate (inclusive of all food production).
---------------
My sense of it is it was designed to encourage China to climb out on that limb. Hopefully, I am right.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (XetL6)

82 "In addition, the consumer rejection of EVs is so thorough that people don’t even want to drive an EV when they rent a car"

Inspector and I made sure to specify no EV when we rented a vehicle this past December. It's possible the place the hotel people parked the car at may have had charging stations, but if they didn't Inspector didn't have 3 hours to charge it among all the other things he needed to do.

Also, there was an instance, of the curve of an off-ramp being tighter than expected, where I'm extremely glad not to have had a bunch of extra weight going in the wrong direction. I wonder how often that extra inertia causes those fender benders that require the battery to be replaced.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (nC+QA)

83 IF you could bypass the lack of working chargers and get those lithium batteries to begin charging at below 0F temps the batteries get all 'splody'.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:16 AM (f79f5)

84 14 How do EVs do in extreme heat? I know my cell phone won't charge in high heat.
Posted by: Northernlurker
--------
They don't do that well in extremes of cold or hot right now.

Essentially this was an attempt by govt coupled with auto companies to force consumers to buy prototype technology. Technological wise, there is a lot to like about battery powered vehicles but the current iterations have a lot of teething problems.

We also have not designed our increasingly shaky electrical network infrastructure to support wholesale conversion to electric vehicles and it requires an excessive demand for relatively expensive natural resources. This is fairly typical of new technology plus overpromising to power things like large trucks, busses, etc. To run it, we basically have to move to nuclear power to remain carbon neutral.

We would have similar problems pivoting to a hydrogen vehicle technology--expensive infrastructure investment and new prototype technology that has not been debugged yet.

Hybrids, on the other hand, have been around for over 20 years and offer a better deal currently than EVs both environmentally and economically.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (ZcPYF)

85 Is no one going to mention that Hertz is returning 1/3, aka 20,000 EV's?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (SbJgO)

86 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …
Posted by: tubal at January 22, 2024 11:10 AM (PCK5/)

mr_jack, I believe. He showed up on an ONT a few nights ago.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (tkR6S)

87 Instead of wasting all that money and time and resources on EVs, they could easily be perfecting the hydrogen engine or hybrid engine.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (rJ7Hd)

88 They aren't even trying to hide it any longer. The judge hearing the moronic Trump defamation case in NYC delayed the trial until tomorrow, election day in NH.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (ZLI7S)

89 I am not beholden to gas/oil. IF we can find a reasonable/feasible/realistic alternative. Fine. Don't care. But none of these ideas meet the criteria above. The batteries etc. are worse for the environment than ICE. Same with wind, solar etc. It is our money being transferred for a unicorn fart of an idea.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (4p0Xq)

90 Whereupon his dash started alerting him to

-

Dang, he sure did use up a bunch of power not going anywhere.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:18 AM (2WOSG)

91 Essentially this was an attempt by govt coupled with auto companies to force consumers to buy prototype technology. Technological wise, there is a lot to like about battery powered vehicles but the current iterations have a lot of teething problems.

We also have not designed our increasingly shaky electrical network infrastructure to support wholesale conversion to electric vehicles and it requires an excessive demand for relatively expensive natural resources.

Remember to turn your thermostat down to 60 so your neighbor can charge his car.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:18 AM (SbJgO)

92 So do early adopters become early abandoners or are they more likely to be bitter clingers. In other words s it a first in first out scenario or a first hired last fired type thing?
Posted by: Muldoon at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (991eG)

I think it has to do with how much self identification the new adopter gets from being the new adopter. I don't think there are many old-school punks left, but there are a lot of hard core ride-or-die Jimmy Buffet fans

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:18 AM (D7oie)

93 Remember to turn your thermostat down to 60 so your neighbor can charge his car.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:18 AM (SbJgO)

"Oh, you have a smart thermostat? We can take care of that for you."

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:19 AM (KbCG3)

94 If you like your gasoline car you can keep your gasoline car.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 11:19 AM (NYzgN)

95 94 If you like your gasoline car you can keep your gasoline car.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 11:19 AM (NYzgN

Can I keep my five burner gas stove?

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (rJ7Hd)

96
88 They aren't even trying to hide it any longer. The judge hearing the moronic Trump defamation case in NYC delayed the trial until tomorrow, election day in NH.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (ZLI7S)

At this point does it even matter? If you like Trunp you don’t give a shit about the trials. If you hate Trump, you already hate him and the trial just reinforces the hate. I don’t think there’s anyone left in the middle on him.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (WFBbt)

97 Hybrids, on the other hand, have been around for over 20 years and offer a better deal currently than EVs both environmentally and economically.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM

True. My biggest thing with any of this. Don't force me to go to a technology I don't want and don't make me pay for said tech I don't want.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (4p0Xq)

98 Is no one going to mention that Hertz is returning 1/3, aka 20,000 EV's?
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (SbJgO)

Reading the content is so passé.

Posted by: Catherine at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (ZSsrh)

99 1957 Cuban EVs are still running strong.

Mad Max set for January release

Russian EV Tanks defeat the Nazis at Kursk

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (MNhXM)

100 @73 Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (MeG8a

That $3k expense is what 4-5 months payments on a new car.? Not to mention all the other expenses associated with a new car. Smart move and a good investment.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (gxRWI)

101 83 IF you could bypass the lack of working chargers and get those lithium batteries to begin charging at below 0F temps the batteries get all 'splody'.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron

There is battery tech that avoids that problem but enviro weenies simply fail to recognize how dense in power carbon fuels like gasoline or diesel are. So, essentially to even try to match that energy density using batteries means you have very high current flows which risk catastrophic consequences for shorting out due to accidents or wear and tear.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (ZcPYF)

102 I love the smell of internal combustion engine exhaust in the morning

smells like

civilization

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:20 AM (geLO8)

103 The hassles of maintaining a charge are so ubiquitous that even the simple act of parking a “fueled up” vehicle at the airport and expecting it to be available to drive when you return is not applicable to electric vehicles.
++++
Self-discharge is a problem, as are phantom loads, over a decent chunk of time.

Your regular car doesn't lose gas or diesel as it sits there unattended* but your electric car will lose the equivalent. The problem can be big or small and will vary with conditions, but it is always there.

* There will probably be some evaporative losses depending on the age and design on the vehicle along with ambient temperate. A "PZEV" vehicle should suffer no evaporative losses, but time makes fools of us all. This notwithstanding, however, fuel losses from a traditional vehicle are trivial.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (mwCIn)

104 I would really like to see the end of all EV subsidies. Period. Then let's see just how popular they are. My general view is that EVs suck dog ass.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (JNTt1)

105
And the reply to cold charging from EV supporters is: well figure it out / this is growing pains. (Though the issue has always been present and got headlines this time)

Though, a few will trade in their EVs or buy ICE.

The downfall, IMHO, will be when these owners in 5-10 years have to replace their batteries. Hence, 2035 to stop all ICE buying options in many states and to be fully locked into EVs.
Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal

A good time to remind people that the oldest EV in the world was produced over 180 years ago. In 1837 Robert Davidson built an electric locomotive as a demo vehicle. In the interim, we've seen rocket ships, computer chips, and all manner of things that worked well and improved. EV is a solution chasing a problem and always will be.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (IG4Id)

106 Imma pretty sure the next great craze will be a return to the Bicorn hat.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (XetL6)

107 I have to laugh at Hertz. Less than a year after trumpeting that they were buying a massive amount of EV, they are dumping them. Not only are they outrageous to repair, nobody at Hertz thought about renters having to spend 3 hours or more trying to charge them before returning.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (CyVQR)

108 All vehicles are depreciating assets, the idea that someone would pay upwards of 100k and more for something that will essentially be a paperweight in 10 years or less is ludicrous.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

-

There was a Car and Driver article not too long ago about investing in vehicles and how it's pointless. Big money spent on muscle cars and pristine examples of rare and unusual low mileage performance cars from the 80s and 90s, and when you actually look at the numbers its a 5% annual return (and doesn't count the garage, upkeep, etc)

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (2WOSG)

109 “There is nothing to be learned from the second kick from a mule.”

Nonsense! I learned the first time wasn't a fluke!

Posted by: Brain-dead Leftist at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (JCZqz)

110 The commenters are doing their best to convince people that ICE cars also don't start or run during cold weather, and that oil freezes up prevents proper operation of engines.
Posted by: Nikki Haley

😂😂😂 Except ICE vehicles have been used in frozen climes for a hundred years.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (SbJgO)

111 ICE sales will NOT stop, no matter what CA says.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM (CsUN+)

How many states have signed those stupid "We'll adopt every stupid thing California does" declarations, again?

Do you really think that won't change when the deadline approaches and people don't have the option to buy the car they want?

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (CsUN+)

112 The Pinto being the number 1 car in America tells you everything you need to know about the 70's in America.
Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:04 AM (sX1BW)

I learned to drive in a Pinto, it was about as good as the volkswagen dad had, but it worked.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (D7oie)

113 I want a car that runs on crystals and inner peace.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (XetL6)

114 The only close to practical EV I've seen was out in Wellton AZ. Pulled into a store and a guy had a golf cart, street legal there, with a solar cell canopy for trickle charge. He said it got him around town for errands like the post office or liquor store but still cost him a bunch replacing batteries about once a year. AZ heat bad juju on batteries.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (0EOe9)

115 29 Greetings! Most cars sucked during the 1070s...

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:08 AM (MeG8a)

--------------------------------

Primarily because they were 800 years ahead of their time.

Posted by: No One of Consequence at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (F4bAW)

116 Being stranded in dangerously cold weather is simply terrifying, and there are an abundance of anecdotes and quotes about the EV graveyards that were found in Chicago and other frozen cities.
++++
Not to mention that EVs cannot do something that traditional vehicles can do: act as a heater of last resort. Running you car at idle to keep the heat on is wasteful and inefficient, but it can keep your ass above freezing for a long period of time if you have a decent amount of fuel in the tank when you get stuck (and assuming you aren't breathing exhaust, of course).

The EV can't do that, since it's out of fuel with no way to put more in.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (mwCIn)

117 Electric cars have been around since the first ICE vehicles. The problems known then are the problems known now. The lithium ion battery is upgrade on prior tech, but a very dangerous upgrade. Small lithium batteries like in your phone or other devices aren't that big a deal , but the larger they get the more the danger increases.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (wJraq)

118 "This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

Sorry that your first encounter with reality was so unsettling.

Posted by: t-bird at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (KfN19)

119 There was a "gas crisis" on. Pintos were peppy, had an overhead cam 4 cylinder engine made of cast iron, not aluminum, and had precise rack & Pinion steering. They were fun to drive. And the dangers of the fuel-tank issue were massively overstated.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024

***
The little Mercury Capri ("the sexy European") was around at the same time, but it probably cost more to buy new than a Pinto.

Gas mileage was not bad on my Ford Maverick for the time. A gallon was .55 and I got about 15 mpg on the highway, so $1.00 = ca. 30 miles. If the same ratio were to hold today, your average car on $3.00/gal. regular should get ca. 90 mpg. But we don't.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (J2vNu)

120 True. My biggest thing with any of this. Don't force me to go to a technology I don't want and don't make me pay for said tech I don't want.
Posted by: Minnfidel
-----------
Unfortunately, I would guess somewhere around 10-20k of new gas vehicle prices stem from technology that a lot of people don't want or don't need but government mandates. For example the coming mandate for a kill switch on new vehicles that even GOPe supported.

Witness the 10k Toyota pickup that cannot be sold here due to government regs.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (ZcPYF)

121 The hassles of maintaining a charge are so ubiquitous that even the simple act of parking a “fueled up” vehicle at the airport and expecting it to be available to drive when you return is not applicable to electric vehicles.
++++
Self-discharge is a problem, as are phantom loads, over a decent chunk of time...

-

Some lady was interviewed not too long ago and was discussing how she loved her car itself, but not the secondary bits of EV ownership that no one discusses or ever has to worry about in a real car.

Getting back to the airport after a 10 hour flight home and you've got to stop for another two hours to charge up your car? Yay.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (2WOSG)

122 Every other year I drop 3 or 4 thousand for maintenance, no problem. In this case the broken shifter cable prompted me to get it done, and AOP said they will find other things needing attention, and he was correct as usual. New drive belt, for instance. Radiator hoses, etc.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:24 AM (MeG8a)

123 The rental car agency said in a regulatory filing today that it will sell 20,000 vehicles, or roughly one-third of its global EV fleet, and use that money to buy gas guzzlers. The decision was made after Hertz reported higher depreciation and damage than expected to its EVs, amounting to $245 million in costs for the company.
++++
I like the negative language. They might as well have written, "Unvirtuous corporation sells holy vehicles to buy demonic ones."

And yeah, the depreciation is a bitch and a half.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:24 AM (mwCIn)

124 How much is the 2001 car worth? Spending $3k on a car worth $5k, isn’t a great investment. At some point it’s just throwing money away vs buying something newer (newer doesn’t mean new).

Sweet spot is 3-5 year old car that has taken the initial huge depreciation hit but doesn’t need much maintenance/repairs. Drive it for 1-2 years, ell, rinse and repeat.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:24 AM (WFBbt)

125 [i Greetings! Most cars sucked during the 1070s...

Especially those ones with the guy walking alongside, yelling "Bring out yer dead!".

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:24 AM (CsUN+)

126 >>At this point does it even matter? If you like Trunp you don’t give a shit about the trials. If you hate Trump, you already hate him and the trial just reinforces the hate. I don’t think there’s anyone left in the middle on him.

Not really the point. The point is the judge in this trial is so blatantly biased you can see it from Mars. Trump asked for a 1 day continuance to be able to attend his mother in law's funeral and the judge refused. But he has no problem rescheduling the trial to a very crucial election day where Trump is the favorite.

It's blatant election interference.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (ZLI7S)

127 One of the kiddos was considering a Tesla since the base model price had dropped to $27K and they have an old car.

I think I talked him out of that, basically saying that a hybrid gives you most of the same bennies with fewer of the downsides.

However-

this EV fiasco in Chicago looks to have permanently caused them to drop any EV/hybrid type car, and hold onto their car until it's absolutely time to buy a new one...an ICE.

I think this battery catastrophe is going to destroy the hybrid market as well with spreading disaffection.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (nFnyb)

128 There was a Car and Driver article not too long ago about investing in vehicles and how it's pointless. Big money spent on muscle cars and pristine examples of rare and unusual low mileage performance cars from the 80s and 90s, and when you actually look at the numbers its a 5% annual return (and doesn't count the garage, upkeep, etc)
Posted by: Nikki Haley
-------
I think large parts of our economy as far as collectibles, etc. are related to money laundering.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (ZcPYF)

129 Every EV owner should have a back up ICE vehicle. That’s almost a given. Not doing so is like a primary urban solar powered house not being hooked up to the grid also.

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (MNhXM)

130 Dang, he sure did use up a bunch of power not going anywhere.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:18 AM (2WOSG)

I don't know how long he was there... I didn't see him spinning tires trying to get out... but he did have his heat on in the truck.

I donno how the traction control works on these things but even when he floored the accelerator the wheels would spin a fraction of an inch and then just stop.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (wMCwJ)

131 110 The commenters are doing their best to convince people that ICE cars also don't start or run during cold weather, and that oil freezes up prevents proper operation of engines.
Posted by: Nikki Haley

😂😂😂 Except ICE vehicles have been used in frozen climes for a hundred years.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (SbJgO)

-------------------------------

I saw an article where they quoted someone as saying that the problem wasn't the EVs, but that the charging stations were failing in the cold weather. They said that EVs and ICEs perform about the same in cold weather.

Posted by: No One of Consequence at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (F4bAW)

132 Ford dropped several billion dollars into multiple EV battery manufacturing facilities. Some still under construction. Some canceled.

How long before Ford either goes bankrupt or gets a massive federal bailout?

Posted by: Martini Farmer at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (Q4IgG)

133 Some lady was interviewed not too long ago and was discussing how she loved her car itself, but not the secondary bits of EV ownership that no one discusses or ever has to worry about in a real car.

Getting back to the airport after a 10 hour flight home and you've got to stop for another two hours to charge up your car? Yay.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (2WOSG)

So what she really likes is the idea of her car, not the car itself.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (KbCG3)

134 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (Zz0t1)

135 Toyota is not wildly embracing EV’s… Toyota ama pretty solid pragmatic company..

Posted by: tubal at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (PCK5/)

136 For every Ford lightening not sold Ford makes around $35,000.

Posted by: Jukin at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (17s+e)

137 88 They aren't even trying to hide it any longer. The judge hearing the moronic Trump defamation case in NYC delayed the trial until tomorrow, election day in NH.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (ZLI7S)

———

The administration of justice in the USA is blind, without fear or favor.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (nC3Sx)

138 One of the kiddos was considering a Tesla since the base model price had dropped to $27K and they have an old car.

-

The MSM and manufacturers try so hard to convince young people and gullible buyers that EVs are performance cars.

The problem being: Performance also involves performing routine tasks like moving when it's cold.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (2WOSG)

139 By contrast, under an Energy Department rule, carmakers can arbitrarily multiply the efficiency of electric cars by 6.67. This means that although a 2022 Tesla Model Y tests at the equivalent of about 65 miles per gallon in a laboratory (roughly the same as a hybrid), it is counted as having an absurdly high compliance value of 430 mpg. That number has no basis in reality or law.

------------

Well at least they're consistent with the fraudulent numbers reported as a result of the F. Joe Mugabe "Bidenonomics Miracle."

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (ceqM0)

140 120 Unfortunately, I would guess somewhere around 10-20k of new gas vehicle prices stem from technology that a lot of people don't want or don't need but government mandates. For example the coming mandate for a kill switch on new vehicles that even GOPe supported.

Witness the 10k Toyota pickup that cannot be sold here due to government regs.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (ZcPYF)

Don't forget the Breathalyzer Interlock Mandate (that the GOPe also supported).

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (sm6Pk)

141 Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

I'm going to take a wild guess that her? parents are progressives.

Posted by: Northernlurker at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (SExFt)

142 I want a car that runs on crystals and inner peace.
Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (XetL6)

The Barsoom fliers were developed using the 8th ray, and are sustained by the rays stored within buoyancy tanks. The ships engines are run using a marvelous concentrated martian fuel.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (D7oie)

143 Kind of liked the Mercury Merkur back in the day. Never owned one but it had those European touches than US cars didn't come with.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (XetL6)

144 I dunno what the blue book on it says. The car is mint, garage kept, not a scratch on it. Never been in so much as a fender bender. The interior shows wear. I can still play my favorite cassette of Tom Jones' Greatest Hits.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (MeG8a)

145 How much is the 2001 car worth? Spending $3k on a car worth $5k, isn’t a great investment. At some point it’s just throwing money away vs buying something newer (newer doesn’t mean new).

That's not the question to ask. The question is "what's the replacement cost?". If you're happy with what you have, and replacing it is going to cost you $10k/year, then sticking with what you have is the smart play.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (CsUN+)

146 I saw an article where they quoted someone as saying that the problem wasn't the EVs, but that the charging stations were failing in the cold weather. They said that EVs and ICEs perform about the same in cold weather.
Posted by: No One of Consequence at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (F4bAW)

"Hi there. I have this bridge located in the beautiful oceanfront lands of eastern Arizona. I am willing to sell it to you at a loss....."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (Zz0t1)

147 132 Ford dropped several billion dollars into multiple EV battery manufacturing facilities. Some still under construction. Some canceled.

How long before Ford either goes bankrupt or gets a massive federal bailout?
Posted by: Martini Farmer at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (Q4IgG)

They are supposedly building a massive EV plant in Kentucky. I don't think it will survive

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (rJ7Hd)

148 How do EVs do in extreme heat? I know my cell phone won't charge in high heat.
Posted by: Northernlurker

Almost as badly as in the cold. I was involved in a study, and EV were not realistic unless temperatures were in the 50 to 80 range.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (CyVQR)

149 Some lady was interviewed not too long ago and was discussing how she loved her car itself, but not the secondary bits of EV ownership that no one discusses or ever has to worry about in a real car.
____

Hmm. Sounds like - "Tranny loves the idea of the sex change but the secondary bits of needing to take hormones and surgeries and a lifetime of expensive maintenance, loss of reproductive function and literaly smelling like excrement, no one really discusses that part."

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (fs1hN)

150 but he did have his heat on in the truck.

---

Ah, that's what did it.

Speak to any EV driver in cold climates. They're driving to and from work looking like Linus in the Peanuts Christmas Special. You know, because they're driving a real car.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:28 AM (2WOSG)

151 All of this EV doom talk assumes Americans are capable of learning from their mistakes, and that the political class gives a shit whether EVs work.

Posted by: I'm skeptical at January 22, 2024 11:28 AM (L81HX)

152 148 How do EVs do in extreme heat? I know my cell phone won't charge in high heat.
Posted by: Northernlurker

Almost as badly as in the cold. I was involved in a study, and EV were not realistic unless temperatures were in the 50 to 80 range.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (CyVQR

So just California?

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at January 22, 2024 11:28 AM (eYoxG)

153 @108

>>and when you actually look at the numbers its a 5% annual return (and doesn't count the garage, upkeep, etc)

As an example, I have a 2015 Jeep Wrangler, over the years I've owned it, I've dropped about 20k in suspension and performance upgrades and a little over a year ago, I dropped an LS into it, all told, I probably spent 80k to purchase it and upgrade it.

As nice as it is, nobody is going to give me 80k for it.

I don't plan to ever sell it but the most I could probably get is about 55k for it.

As I said, the vast overwhelming majority of vehicles are depreciating assets and the only ones that will appreciate are few and far between.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:28 AM (rc3Z7)

154 128 There was a Car and Driver article not too long ago about investing in vehicles and how it's pointless. Big money spent on muscle cars and pristine examples of rare and unusual low mileage performance cars from the 80s and 90s, and when you actually look at the numbers its a 5% annual return (and doesn't count the garage, upkeep, etc)
Posted by: Nikki Haley
-------
I think large parts of our economy as far as collectibles, etc. are related to money laundering.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (ZcPYF)
_______________

I've long thought that the art market is mostly money laundering. The insane values of "collector" cars and the obviously-fraudulent origin stories ("this three-units made 1962 Ferrari Mega Ultimativa was just discovered in some rando barn!") suggest the same is true of that market.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:28 AM (iFTx/)

155 How long before Ford either goes bankrupt or gets a massive federal bailout?

That's the whole game.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (CsUN+)

156 All vehicles are depreciating assets, the idea that someone would pay upwards of 100k and more for something that will essentially be a paperweight in 10 years or less is ludicrous.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

Buying new is where the depreciation hit comes in. See my comment above for buying slighly used.

But cars last well past 10 years if maintained well. I have a 2013 that was $45k msrp. I bought it for $19k in 2020 at 50k miles and today it’s worth about $14-15k with 105k miles.

The initial owner took the massive hit. The 2nd owner, who I bought it from and me barely took any depreciation cost,

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (WFBbt)

157 There is nothing wrong with options in the marketplace. I couldn't give a fuck if EVs are a thing.

The problem started when goofy foreign dictators and little Swedish girls started telling everyone that had to buy an EV and eat bugs.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (rJ7Hd)

158 More and more, the wisdom of the Toyota strategy is obvious, laser-focused as they are on hybrids and IC engines (with enough fully electric to keep the crazy Feds at bay). What a home run for that company.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (1UEDr)

159 Getting back to the airport after a 10 hour flight home and you've got to stop for another two hours to charge up your car? Yay.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (2WOSG)

At my dinky airport in Portland ME, there is a whole row of EV charging parking ... of course right in the sought-after area right next to the skyway bridge access to the terminal.

I don't think I've ever seen an empty spot there - which to me indicates, if I was brain damaged enough to drive an EV, I'd have to leave it in a normal spot, not plugged into anything. In Maine. In the winter.

There are signs on every garage support column with a phone number on it for 24/7 jump services. I had to use it once. Took 15 minutes for them to show up but then I was back on the road, enjoying my heater.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (wMCwJ)

160 They aren't even trying to hide it any longer. The judge hearing the moronic Trump defamation case in NYC delayed the trial until tomorrow, election day in NH.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (ZLI7S)

———

The administration of justice in the USA is blind, without fear or favor.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at January 22, 2024 11:26 AM (nC3Sx)

----------

I was assured by Cheap Justice Benedict Roberts that there were no partisan judges AT ALL across the nation.

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (ceqM0)

161 All these EV's seem to work fine in Norway, Sweden and the other Nordic countries in subzero winter weather. Are Chicago EV owners dumber, and/or was this just 1 charging station that experience a breakdown that the media blew totally out of proportion because Elon bad now because he likes the orange man?

Posted by: Sixiron at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (c4Wfm)

162 😂😂😂 Except ICE vehicles have been used in frozen climes for a hundred years.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:21 AM (SbJgO)

A new or late model ICE car will probably handle winter weather down to about zero F without any special attention at all. But as the battery ages out, and the engine ages, eventually the battery will fail during a cold spell. You can get away with deferred maintenance for a long time in fine weather, but when Winter hits look out!

But the EV's being knocked out by the cold are brand new.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (tkR6S)

163 I think large parts of our economy as far as collectibles, etc. are related to money laundering.
Posted by: whig

-

I'm starting to accept that large parts of our society / economy as a whole are related to money laundering. It's very disheartening.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (2WOSG)

164 Plus (and this is a big one) the car accommodates me, my wife, my mom and my upright bass with amp.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (MeG8a)

165 ... Hertz badly misjudged the re-sale value of these vehicles when purchasing them.
++++
They're not the only ones. The secondary market for lightly-used EVs is kinda sorta okay, but the market for more heavily-used or older EVs is (and will increasingly become with more time) a nightmare.

The powertrain wears out too quickly. Virtually any somewhat modern gas car kept in good repair is good for at least a quarter million miles on the engine, likely a third of a million or better. ICE technology is at an incredible level of development. Transmissions tend to wear out sooner, but you should expect to get a least 150k miles out of one, probably better, with proper maintenance.

And that gas car will cost less to repair, even in the event of powertrain failure. If my car needed both major powetrain components, the engine would be about $5k and the transmission about $7k. Combined, it is less than the cost of replacing a Tesla Model 3 battery pack - and it is unlikely to ever need to be done over the useful life of the vehicle.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (mwCIn)

166 The little Mercury Capri ("the sexy European") was around at the same time, but it probably cost more to buy new than a Pinto.
---------------
My college girlfriend had one. We went to New Orleans in it. Fun little car.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (XetL6)

167
They are supposedly building a massive EV plant in Kentucky. I don't think it will survive
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (rJ7Hd)

They followed the government mandate lead. They should've lagged behind and waited to see wat happened. They didn't, but will demand money from the government, not a bailout, but a recoup of losses for doing what the government told them to do.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (Zz0t1)

168 113 I want a car that runs on crystals and inner peace.
Posted by: Pudinhead

Visit https://marianne2024.com/ and consider even a small $5 donation, and you can help us fight to make crystal and inner-piece powered cars a reality!

Posted by: Marianne Willaimson 2024 at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (JCZqz)

169
ABC News: Hybrids vs. Hydrogen: Which Future Is Brighter?
November 19, 2004

Owned a Ford Pinto, manufactured in Cali, way back and the timing belt broke more than a few times, always while driving a distance at a certain pace, like on the PA Turnpike, etc.

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (GshMh)

170 A lot of our problems today are the fault of people who refuse to accept reality. EV cars are not ready for prime time. Someday, maybe, but the technology is just not there right now.

Same with wind and solar. Free energy from the sky is a lovely dream, but dreaming doesn't make it real.

"If you build it, they will come" is false.

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (geLO8)

171 Posted by: Muldoon at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (991eG)

Don't know about others, but my late Father-in-law was a bitter clinger. He used his BetaMax video machine for about 20 years. He used VHS too, but always used his early-adopted stuff until the bitter end of serviceability. They had a Sears whole house service contract that may have made that more practical than for most people.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (nC+QA)

172 115 29 Greetings! Most cars sucked during the 1070s...

--------------------------------

Primarily because they were 800 years ahead of their time.
Posted by: No One of Consequence at January 22, 2024 11:22 AM (F4bAW)

Those Byzantine regulations didn't help.

Posted by: J. Frank Parnell at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (IGKzA)

173 Sweet spot is 3-5 year old car that has taken the initial huge depreciation hit but doesn’t need much maintenance/repairs. Drive it for 1-2 years, ell, rinse and repeat.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024

***
My 2016 Buick LaCrosse, assuming it came off the assembly line in late 2015, is 8.5 years old, 76K miles. It has needed very little other than maintenance, new tires, two new batteries. Even if I wanted to get into something newer, what's out there? Buick no longer makes sedans; I don't want or need an SUV. I'd have to go Toyota, say an Avalon, or the Lexus ES model.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (J2vNu)

174 157 There is nothing wrong with options in the marketplace. I couldn't give a fuck if EVs are a thing.

The problem started when goofy foreign dictators and little Swedish girls started telling everyone that had to buy an EV and eat bugs.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (rJ7Hd)

Oh, and don't forget to get your sixth vaccine booster!

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (KbCG3)

175 Remember to turn your thermostat down to 60 so your neighbor can charge his car.
Posted by: rickb223
------
Heck, it would probably mean blackouts given what has happened in California during high demands. They told people simply to not charge their vehicles and have come up with the lame idea that your car should be hooked up as a power provider when not in use so as to use its power when needed to balance the grid.

Great way to shorten battery life and make your property less than your own.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (ZcPYF)

176 I wish I had some 70s cars like the Torino.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (rJ7Hd)

177 A good time to remind people that the oldest EV in the world was produced over 180 years ago. In 1837 Robert Davidson built an electric locomotive as a demo vehicle. In the interim, we've seen rocket ships, computer chips, and all manner of things that worked well and improved. EV is a solution chasing a problem and always will be.
Posted by: weft cut-loop

They had an EV 110 years ago. Range: 80 miles.

So they added 120 miles in 110 years.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (SbJgO)

178 The Pinto got a bad rap. All rear mounted fuel tank vehicles stood the chance of a gas leak in a rear end collision.

Remember how ABC News (I think) got in trouble for doing the same thing with Chevy trucks where they side impacted and 'helped' ignite the fuel?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

179 I am not beholden to gas/oil. IF we can find a reasonable/feasible/realistic alternative. Fine. Don't care. But none of these ideas meet the criteria above. The batteries etc. are worse for the environment than ICE. Same with wind, solar etc. It is our money being transferred for a unicorn fart of an idea.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:17 AM (4p0Xq)

-------------

"We're only 50 years away from viable nuclear fusion."

/I'll take 'Things I've been hearing for the past 50 years, Alex!'"

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (ceqM0)

180 Even if I wanted to get into something newer, what's out there?

-

A tiny stripped-out base Civic or Corolla for $28K.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (2WOSG)

181 I wish I had some 70s cars like the Torino.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (rJ7Hd)

The Torino and Galaxies were VERY underappreciated cars.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

182 44
‘ Someone dumb enough to live in Chitcago deserves an EV.’
You just know most of them are lefties.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (jbnUc)

183 Trump's lawyer.

https://twitter.com/DrMariaX/status/1749391347675496824

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (FVME7)

184
That's not the question to ask. The question is "what's the replacement cost?". If you're happy with what you have, and replacing it is going to cost you $10k/year, then sticking with what you have is the smart play.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:27 AM (CsUN+)

Say you have the $5k 2001 car. And you can buy a 2010 version for $15k. You then have a $15k asset that costs much less to maintain and repair. And yes that $15k will depreciate but very slowly since the depreciation curve is pretty flat.

It’s a much better investment than throwing money into an$5k car and driving a 9 year older vehicle.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (YofvK)

185 Remember how ABC News (I think) got in trouble for doing the same thing with Chevy trucks where they side impacted and 'helped' ignite the fuel?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

No way!! The Media would never!!

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (rJ7Hd)

186 It should be pointed out (and Buck has probably stated this in previous posts) that the multiplier for electrics is very attractive to the OEMs because their vehicle sales need to meet an average efficiency standard that is quickly approaching impossible.
You see, people want SUVs but SUVs can't really achieve the USGov's idea of fuel efficiency, because they just weight too much. As a result the produce a ton of cars, little econo boxes that no one really wants.. as a result they basically give them away. They make it up with extravagant markups on the cars people actually want. This in my opinion doesn't get pointed out enough. If not for the efficiency standard averaging model the cars we want would be much cheaper.

Posted by: Inogame at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (53oGX)

187 Heck, it would probably mean blackouts given what has happened in California during high demands. They told people simply to not charge their vehicles and have come up with the lame idea that your car should be hooked up as a power provider when not in use so as to use its power when needed to balance the grid.

Great way to shorten battery life and make your property less than your own.
Posted by: whig

If I'm using it as an electricity provider when not in use, it won't have a charge when I need it.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (SbJgO)

188 Most of the critical correspondence I receive from EV fans will start with something like "Buck, you really need to educate yourself about EVs."

Suddenly I hear Nya saying, "You fellas need to inform yourselves... of where we're at culturally."

Posted by: pookysgirl hasn't done her monthly forced rewatch of the Ninjago Movie at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (dtlDP)

189 My 2016 Buick LaCrosse, assuming it came off the assembly line in late 2015, is 8.5 years old, 76K miles. It has needed very little other than maintenance, new tires, two new batteries. Even if I wanted to get into something newer, what's out there? Buick no longer makes sedans; I don't want or need an SUV. I'd have to go Toyota, say an Avalon, or the Lexus ES model.

I own a 2013 Ford Fusion, garage kept, maintained, nice interior, and 96k miles. Since I retired and don't commute, my miles / week has dropped by 80-90%. Why on earth would I sell it for a new car that is going to cost me $80k?

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (CsUN+)

190 How do Teslas do trying to drive through standing water?
Like rain flooded roads.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism

The Tesla Model 3 (or maybe Y) had s design defect where the rear bumper assembly acted like a giant scoop when driven through standing water. If you collected enough water, it ripped off the bumper.

Posted by: Grudge Harbor at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (hCzfy)

191 Owned a Ford Pinto, manufactured in Cali, way back and the timing belt broke more than a few times, always while driving a distance at a certain pace, like on the PA Turnpike, etc.
Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024

***
My '84 Ford Escort, the Pinto's successor, stranded me and/or stuck me with a $$ repair every year of the seven long years I owned it. I bet if I'd bought a used, top-of-the-line Ford LTD/Crown Vic or Mercury Grand Marquis, I would have had a lot fewer problems.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:34 AM (J2vNu)

192 A lot of our problems today are the fault of people who refuse to accept reality. EV cars are not ready for prime time. Someday, maybe, but the technology is just not there right now. ...
Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:30 AM (geLO

++++
It depends on what you mean by "prime time." For some use cases, they are fine even if they still won't usually make economic sense from the standpoint of total cost of ownership - but that is secondary and up to the individual buyer.

In-town, short-haul runabouts are a fine use for EVs. If all you need to do is make the grocery and school run and occasionally go downtown for a doctor's appoint and similar, and EV is fin if that's what floats your boat and you like.

Another fine use case is sports cars. EVs have loads of torque and the acceleration curve is bonkers. They can be a ton of fun and a blast to drive. If that's your thing, cool. Fun is more important than economy in the first place when it comes to sports cars.

What EVs are *not* is all things to all men, or a viable replacement for the general-purpose mixed use case of most people.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:34 AM (mwCIn)

193 Most cars sucked during the 1070s...

Posted by: gourmand du jour

*********

Wasn't that about when Ford came out with the Millennium Falcon?

Posted by: Muldoon at January 22, 2024 11:34 AM (991eG)

194
No way!! The Media would never!!
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (rJ7Hd)

Perish the thought!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:34 AM (Zz0t1)

195 I'm starting to accept that large parts of our society / economy as a whole are related to money laundering. It's very disheartening.
Posted by: Nikki Haley
--------
That is at the core to some extent why both the GOPe and the Dems do not want the drug and human trafficking cartels shut down. Lot of 'respectable' people get their cut from laundering that revenue stream from real estate, banks, and so on.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (ZcPYF)

196 Is flooding the engine still a thing? Or did they develop some technology that prevents it?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (9yWhg)

197 This whole event has to be dis-mis-information from evil right wingers. They probably staged the whole thing. Any fule no that freezing temperatures, snow and ice no longer occur because of climate change, duh!

Posted by: Limey at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (xSXnS)

198 Chicago again. I pointed out last thread that Chicago Mayor Brandon has been hospitalized for panic attacks. Some of the comments are spot on. " Can you imagine the panic when the DNC shit show hits town?" " Panic attacks happen when you have your first real job"

Posted by: Smell the Glove at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (wJraq)

199 I miss my old '72 pinto. I was my dad's (he built it). In '81 I started commuting to law school in Newark. Traded my truck with my dad. Never worried about my car getting stolen.

Posted by: teh Wind at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (l+V04)

200 156 All vehicles are depreciating assets, the idea that someone would pay upwards of 100k and more for something that will essentially be a paperweight in 10 years or less is ludicrous.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

Eh speak for yourself. I bought my 2003 Hummer H1 in 2021 for $85k. I've got a standing offer to buy it from me for $125k.

Bought my last Hummer H1 for $68k in 2018. Insurance totaled it after a side-impact-rollover in 2021 for... $128k.

Yes maintenance is a bitch (its in the shop now getting an oil change, some leaks fixed, new brakes and a front locker installed) but overall, I've made out like a bandit with these huge tanks.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (8BPH1)

201 Judging from all the headlines the problem with charging EVs in extremely cold weather is limited to Teslas.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO, Bird Law Expert at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (snyZJ)

202 Getting back to the airport after a 10 hour flight home and you've got to stop for another two hours to charge up your car? Yay.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:23 AM (2WOSG)

The EV industry could solve that one real easily: concierge parking. You don't drive direct to the airport, you drive to the nearby concierge parking facility, put your bags in their shuttle, and hand over the keys, and give an expected return time. Upon your arrival, the concierge driver picks you up at the arrivals level in your own fully-charged car.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (tkR6S)

203 195 That is at the core to some extent why both the GOPe and the Dems do not want the drug and human trafficking cartels shut down. Lot of 'respectable' people get their cut from laundering that revenue stream from real estate, banks, and so on.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (ZcPYF)

=======

Dolley does fraud work for one of the Big Three Banks. She's upgraded from a regional bank, and the level of fraud that she's been fighting for the past few months is weighing on her.

It's never ending.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (GBKbO)

204 Self-discharge is a problem, as are phantom loads, over a decent chunk of time.

Posted by: Joe Mannix

It isn't a phantom load, EV batteries have a heater so they can charge when temps are below zero. They drain their batteries keeping the battery warm.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (f79f5)

205 Say you have the $5k 2001 car. And you can buy a 2010 version for $15k. You then have a $15k asset that costs much less to maintain and repair.

If that is the case, but you're making a big assumption. The Fusion I described in #189 requires minimal maintenance. When it starts costing me $10k a year, I might buy another car, but until then, I'd be a fool to do so.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (CsUN+)

206 Biden strikes back!

Biden-Harris HQ
@BidenHQ
Trump slurs his words while ranting: In Mexico until [unintelligible]

http://tinyurl.com/6jz9kunn

-
Something about a mote in your brother's eye . . .

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (FVME7)

207 The people who buy teslas & other uvs are completely unphased by criticism.

Posted by: banana Dream at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (Y6IkP)

208 This busty blonde with great teeth loves the sporty fun of an EV, so she has one as a second car:
http://tiny.cc/1ox8wz

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (mwCIn)

209 Off topic. Nothing on FJB's schedule, again, today. But -

NPR, Why Vice President Harris is going to Wisconsin today to talk about abortion, Updated January 22, 2024

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (GshMh)

210 My pretty clean little 2010 Kia is worth about $3500. It goes to the shop tomorrow, and I'm planning on $1K in repairs because that was a magic number out of thin air. Anything less is a bonus. I would like to replace it as the stick shift is a bit hard on the hip and knee, but I only drive about 300 miles a month unless on a road trip. If I'm on a road trip there's not that much clutch action. I'm just at the age where a big car loan or outlay of cash makes no sense.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (0EOe9)

211 It isn't a phantom load...

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (f79f5)

That's what he said!

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (KbCG3)

212 59
'They should do a bait car Tesla and see how many crack addicts they can fry.’

I saw a video of this with a bait bicycle and just about pissed myself laughing.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (jbnUc)

213 All these EV's seem to work fine in Norway, Sweden and the other Nordic countries in subzero winter weather.
Posted by: Sixiron

Do they park them on the street and use public chargers?

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (SbJgO)

214 Say you have the $5k 2001 car. And you can buy a 2010 version for $15k. You then have a $15k asset that costs much less to maintain and repair. And yes that $15k will depreciate but very slowly since the depreciation curve is pretty flat.

It’s a much better investment than throwing money into an$5k car and driving a 9 year older vehicle.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024

***
The rule of thumb is, if your monthly repairs are costing you the same or more than the payment on a new or younger vehicle, then perhaps it's time to jump into something newer.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (J2vNu)

215 Turns out they're horrible sports cars. Races often require two laps. And in reality each time you go to the well you wonder "am I going to get home?" even more than you normally do, which is apparently already always.

If you want to go silently drag race once or twice they're probably interesting for a moment. Again, right up until the drive says "Okay, I can't do that again because I have to drive home" and one of those new stripped out Corollas wins the next heat.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (2WOSG)

216 68 61 We had a commentor here who was pretty passionate in his defense of EV’s, forget who it was …
Posted by: tubal

Xiden, he outed himself as a friend of the other troll raimondo just before the last stolen pres election.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (f79f5)

Yes, he was a paid plant
==
And also stupid. He was telling everyone they should get rid of the fixed rate mortgages, to go to a variable rate. In2016 2017 when it was in 3s. Now the rate is like 8%. My fixed is still in the 3s.

Posted by: Progressive = magical thinking at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (GDXZc)

217 Billionaire collectors usually are not laundering money (Russian Billionaires may be the exception). Bill Gates bought The Codex Leicester ( one of DaVinci’s notebook ) for 31million.

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (MNhXM)

218 Those Byzantine regulations didn't help.
Posted by: J. Frank Parnell at January 22, 2024 11:31 AM (IGKzA)

You. Stop it.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (D7oie)

219 The EV industry could solve that one real easily: concierge parking. You don't drive direct to the airport, you drive to the nearby concierge parking facility, put your bags in their shuttle, and hand over the keys, and give an expected return time. Upon your arrival, the concierge driver picks you up at the arrivals level in your own fully-charged car.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (tkR6S)
++++
Sounds expensive. I like it.

Posted by: EV Manufacturer at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (mwCIn)

220 208 This busty blonde with great teeth loves the sporty fun of an EV, so she has one as a second car:
http://tiny.cc/1ox8wz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (mwCIn)

Once upon a time, tattoos were for sailors.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (rJ7Hd)

221 I had a 1974 Pinto wagon, it was monkey shit brown, kinda golden looking. My dad sold it to me for $500 bucks in 1980. I lasted a long time and I traded it in for a 1982 Ford Escort. I will never purchase an EV ever.

Posted by: Jaimo at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (DBrN4)

222 196 Is flooding the engine still a thing? Or did they develop some technology that prevents it?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

If you flood the engine of your EV while traveling at 88mph, the excess photons will coalesce into an interdimensional wormhole, flooding the area with demonic radiation and turning the frogs gay!

Posted by: Alex Jones at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (JCZqz)

223 This ersatz busty blonde with great teeth loves the sporty fun of an EV, so she has one as a second car:

FIFY.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (CsUN+)

224 The initial owner took the massive hit. The 2nd owner, who I bought it from and me barely took any depreciation cost,
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (WFBbt)

I need to commute about 65 miles a day for my job so I looked for a VW dieselgate car.
I found a 2016 Audi A6 in St. Louis with only 6,750 miles.
Original sticker was 80k, I got it for 35k.
Just hit 50K miles and I could sell the car from 28-30K.
I won't, but I'm getting 35 mpg and have lost very little in 3 years.

Posted by: Inogame at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (53oGX)

225 61 All these EV's seem to work fine in Norway, Sweden and the other Nordic countries in subzero winter weather. Are Chicago EV owners dumber, and/or was this just 1 charging station that experience a breakdown that the media blew totally out of proportion because Elon bad now because he likes the orange man?
Posted by: Sixiron at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (c4Wfm)

The articles this weekend pointed out that the overwhelmingly majority of folks in those countries live in single family houses with garages - so they can charge from home and keep the car warm inside.

Inner cities don't have that...at all...and physically can't.

So, EVs are for the rich, and not the poor and middle class - which is and has been the point. Driving for the elite and not the rest...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (exHjb)

226 161 All these EV's seem to work fine in Norway, Sweden and the other Nordic countries in subzero winter weather. Are Chicago EV owners dumber, and/or was this just 1 charging station that experience a breakdown that the media blew totally out of proportion because Elon bad now because he likes the orange man?
Posted by: Sixiron at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (c4Wfm)

Yeah Norway is something like 70% of new cars are EVs. And somehow they do manage in the cold. The msm lies all the time. Why are we assuming they’re telling the truth now?

And it did seem like all the news was from Chicago. But it got really cold all over the Midwest. Why was all the need about Chicago specifically? How did it fare in Detroit or Cleveland or St Louis?

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (YofvK)

227 It isn't a phantom load, EV batteries have a heater so they can charge when temps are below zero. They drain their batteries keeping the battery warm.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (f79f5)
++++
That sounds like a really big phantom load to me ("phantom load" defined as "shit that sits there consuming power even when you're not using it" - possibly a very bad definition).

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (mwCIn)

228 I think that campaign against the Pinto was a hoax, if memory serves. It was an explosive device they planted on the car, then filmed it.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (MeG8a)

229 216 And also stupid. He was telling everyone they should get rid of the fixed rate mortgages, to go to a variable rate. In2016 2017 when it was in 3s. Now the rate is like 8%. My fixed is still in the 3s.
Posted by: Progressive = magical thinking at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (GDXZc)

=========

"Psh...barely anyone in Europe does fixed rate. We should be more like them!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (GBKbO)

230 What EVs are *not* is all things to all men, or a viable replacement for the general-purpose mixed use case of most people.

------------

Most Tesla owners I know love them. But most have access to other cars. And those that don't, map out their long trips and seem to enjoy the stopping they have to do to charge them. Personally, I think Teslas are very cool cars. If I had the disposable income, I might be inclined to get one as a supplemental vehicle. I'd certainly prefer that we not supplement their cost with governmental incentives. But don't blame people for taking advantage of them.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (sX1BW)

231 I think hybrid vehicles are a good idea. You can get wicked range and mileage with those. A lot of what people want is better obtained from hybrids with modern ultra efficient ICE.

Posted by: banana Dream at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (Y6IkP)

232 If I'm using it as an electricity provider when not in use, it won't have a charge when I need it.

Bingo!
- California gov newsom

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (1Zjbf)

233 Off topic. Nothing on FJB's schedule, again, today. But -

NPR, Why Vice President Harris is going to Wisconsin today to talk about abortion, Updated January 22, 2024

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (GshMh)

Soooo... when is it going to be the most politically convenient for her to "shout her abortion"? Cuz you know she's had at least one.

Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (dtlDP)

234 I've had my current car for 15.5 years now. (77,000 miles, 32,000 of them put on in the first 2 years)

I don't really make enough to make a winning financial play regarding replacing it.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (sm6Pk)

235 "We're only 50 years away from viable nuclear fusion."

/I'll take 'Things I've been hearing for the past 50 years, Alex!'"
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (ceqM0)

Nuclear batteries are here, just not very powerful

they use mildly radioactive isotopes an put out milliamps

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (D7oie)

236 Turns out they're horrible sports cars. Races often require two laps. And in reality each time you go to the well you wonder "am I going to get home?" even more than you normally do, which is apparently already always.

If you want to go silently drag race once or twice they're probably interesting for a moment. Again, right up until the drive says "Okay, I can't do that again because I have to drive home" and one of those new stripped out Corollas wins the next heat.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (2WOSG)
++++
Those are slightly different scenarios. A "sports car" is not the same as a "track day car."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (mwCIn)

237 Is flooding the engine still a thing? Or did they develop some technology that prevents it?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024

***
I've never had a flooding problem since I've had cars with fuel injection, some thirty years now. Electronic fuel management for the win!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (J2vNu)

238 233 Soooo... when is it going to be the most politically convenient for her to "shout her abortion"? Cuz you know she's had at least one.
Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (dtlDP)

=======

The most Kamala thing would be for her to shout her abortion but for to not actually have had one.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

239 If I'm using it as an electricity provider when not in use, it won't have a charge when I need it.
Posted by: rickb223
--------
That is why top down government mandates never really work well but simply introduce a bunch of new problems.

I keep up with tech but generally it takes at least 3 generations or so for smooth running assuming the rest of the infrastructure to support the new tech is there.

For example, micro inverter (changing DC into AC) solar cells work better than the cheaper single inverter solar systems. The micro inverter has less safety issues, allows each panel to generate maximum power separately, and can be backfed into the house if external power fails (assuming a grid tied system). Price is still fairly expensive on them but if you compare the cost with a nat gas generator on standby plus annual maintenance, it begins to make economic sense if you get a price drop from its current premium.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (ZcPYF)

240 For me, EVs and Nikki Haley are in the same category: I won’t consider either and that’s final…

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (1jdMT)

241 Joe Xiden hit hardest...

Posted by: browndog stays away from electrified collars at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (TTAGa)

242 Is flooding the engine still a thing?

Or did they develop some technology that prevents it?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

Fuel injection. I haven't heard of flooding a car with fuel injectors like an engine with a carburetor.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (SbJgO)

243 http://tiny.cc/1ox8wz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

I hate it when chicks can't figure out what color their hair should be.

Also, not that busty.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (9yWhg)

244 articles this weekend pointed out that the overwhelmingly majority of folks in those countries live in single family houses with garages

—

Quick Google search shows in Norway, 40% give or take live in multi family housing. I would imagine the US is a lower percent.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (YofvK)

245 Some politician somewhere is trying to figure out how to get corn subsidies for EVs.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (rJ7Hd)

246 Is flooding the engine still a thing? Or did they develop some technology that prevents it?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:35 AM (9yWhg)

-------------

Good question -- maybe fuel injection systems prevent or minimize that potential?

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (ceqM0)

247 To me the EV push it a bow to the Church of Global Warming

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (fwDg9)

248 240 For me, EVs and Nikki Haley are in the same category: I won’t consider either and that’s final…
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (1jdMT)

=======

I have Nikki's autograph. She came to my work when they opened a new campus and gave a small speech.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (GBKbO)

249 A great big clockwork spring with a giant key coming out of the trunk. That's the ticket.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (0EOe9)

250 "Psh...barely anyone in Europe does fixed rate. We should be more like them!"
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024

***
When Pixy bought his house a couple of years ago, he mentioned that a fixed rate is almost unheard of in Oz.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (J2vNu)

251 Step brother had a 74 Maverick (basically a 4 door pinto). That thing was actually bad ass. Had the I-6 in it, but was torquey and fun to drive.

Dad had a guy put a silly manual oil pressure gauge in it, for some reason, which broke and spewed oil everywhere, while my brother was driving it, which, in turn, caused the motor to blow, sending a rod through the block, releasing what oil remained all over the Infinity that happened to be following behind at the time.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (Zz0t1)

252 So just California?

EV's are meant to be driven indoors.

Posted by: t-bird at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (WLk7l)

253 EVs are vehicles for Mars not earth.

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (MNhXM)

254 "Psh...barely anyone in Europe does fixed rate. We should be more like them!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (GBKbO)

Remember when Pixy told us that you can only get an ARM in Australia and that fixed-rate was pretty much an American thing? Suddenly a lot of the world's economy (and view of banks) made more sense to me.

Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (dtlDP)

255 "We're only 50 years away from viable nuclear fusion."

/I'll take 'Things I've been hearing for the past 50 years, Alex!'"
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions

So by this time next wek . . .

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (FVME7)

256 A great big clockwork spring with a giant key coming out of the trunk. That's the ticket.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (0EOe9)
++++
Combine it with an electric winging mechanism, and it would be an EV.

Electric motor to wind it is the input power, the spring is a battery.

Design it and line up for subsidy checks.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (mwCIn)

257 That sounds like a really big phantom load to me ("phantom load" defined as "shit that sits there consuming power even when you're not using it" - possibly a very bad definition).
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (mwCIn)

Don't forget that it also has its computer running even when the car is off, downloading those-oh-so-exciting "system updates" that may or may not result in your car turning into a nice looking brick.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (8BPH1)

258 132 Ford dropped several billion dollars into multiple EV battery manufacturing facilities. Some still under construction. Some canceled.

How long before Ford either goes bankrupt or gets a massive federal bailout?
Posted by: Martini Farmer at January 22, 2024 11:25 AM (Q4IgG)
=======
Remember when GM and Chrysler got big bailouts from Uncle Sam during Ws administration? Ford did not participate in that.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (JNTt1)

259 Off topic. Nothing on FJB's schedule, again, today. But -

NPR, Why Vice President Harris is going to Wisconsin today to talk about abortion, Updated January 22, 2024

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:37 AM (GshMh)

Soooo... when is it going to be the most politically convenient for her to "shout her abortion"? Cuz you know she's had at least one.

Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (dtlDP)

Guh, yeah!

We got enough of her "mistakes" that we set up Kamalaville here on the other side.

Posted by: Ghost baby mayor of Kamalaville at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (nFnyb)

260 I laugh at the Ford F150 commercials that light up the house when the power goes out. GTFO. Yea, it will work great for about 12 minutes, then you also have no power and a dead truck.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (4p0Xq)

261 Joe Xiden hit hardest...
Posted by: browndog stays away from electrified collars at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (TTAGa)

Heh.

What a maroon.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (Zz0t1)

262 Remember when Pixy told us that you can only get an ARM in Australia and that fixed-rate was pretty much an American thing? Suddenly a lot of the world's economy (and view of banks) made more sense to me.
Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (dtlDP)
++++
Long-term fixed-rate mortgages are extremely rare outside of the US. Lots of lender risk for a loan like that.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (mwCIn)

263 >>>>When it starts costing me $10k a year, I might buy another car, but until then, I'd be a fool to do so.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:36 AM (CsUN+)

Exactly, as long as it can get you where you need to go, reliably keep it. A vehicle is not an asset. At best it’s a tool, but generally a financial liability.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (gxRWI)

264 I have Nikki's autograph. She came to my work when they opened a new campus and gave a small speech.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (GBKbO)

I wonder if Tesla’s (at least the smart ones) give autographs?

If you shook her hand was it firm or squishy?

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (1jdMT)

265 Would you invest $60k into a $100k house even if the house would still only be worth $100k? No of course not. But that’s what you’re doing spending $3k on a $5k, 20 year old car.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (YofvK)

266 Teslas are very popular in my locale. They are at least 40 or 50 percent of the traffic.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (MeG8a)

267 Remember how ABC News (I think) got in trouble for doing the same thing with Chevy trucks where they side impacted and 'helped' ignite the fuel?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

No way!! The Media would never!!
Posted by: AlaBAMA at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (rJ7Hd)

Pretty sure that was Dateline NBC back in the Stone Phillips and/or Jane Pauley days.

Posted by: Doof at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (XIF9h)

268 Those are slightly different scenarios. A "sports car" is not the same as a "track day car."

-

Getting on the fun pedal has the same effect on the street.

And we're not even touching on tire wear (special expensive EV specific tires) and handling or the part where the EVs weigh the same as large pickup trucks. And those tires wear faster the more fun you have in that heavy one-trick pony.

They can go straight really fast really well for a few times, but anything else is mainly marketing silliness to try to convince people with money to buy one instead of another toy they were considering.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (2WOSG)

269 Say you have the $5k 2001 car. And you can buy a 2010 version for $15k. You then have a $15k asset that costs much less to maintain and repair. And yes that $15k will depreciate but very slowly since the depreciation curve is pretty flat.

It’s a much better investment than throwing money into an$5k car and driving a 9 year older vehicle.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (YofvK)

Except we are approaching the point where the electronics and nannyware built into the newer cars makes them less reliable and restricts our freedom. My newest vehicle is an '08 Suburban, and it never had the OnStar crap in it. That's a deal-breaker, in my book.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (tkR6S)

270 264 If you shook her hand was it firm or squishy?
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (1jdMT)

========

I did, but I don't remember. Probably firm. In my experience politicians have firm handshakes.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (GBKbO)

271 254 "Psh...barely anyone in Europe does fixed rate. We should be more like them!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:39 AM (GBKbO)

Remember when Pixy told us that you can only get an ARM in Australia and that fixed-rate was pretty much an American thing? Suddenly a lot of the world's economy (and view of banks) made more sense to me.
Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (dtlDP)

The European banks borrow money at fixed rates and lend at floating rates, the American banks borrow money at floating rates and lend at fixed. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense from the perspective of financial theory either way, since the mismatch causes problems.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (eYoxG)

272 If you want to go silently drag race once or twice they're probably interesting for a moment. Again, right up until the drive says "Okay, I can't do that again because I have to drive home" and one of those new stripped out Corollas wins the next heat.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (2WOSG)
++++
Those are slightly different scenarios. A "sports car" is not the same as a "track day car."
Posted by: Joe Mannix

Big Daddy Don Garlits in an EV Rail. Where you only need two trips down the track a day before blowing the engine.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (SbJgO)

273
Pretty sure that was Dateline NBC back in the Stone Phillips and/or Jane Pauley days.
Posted by: Doof at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (XIF9h)

Meh. Same difference.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (Zz0t1)

274 256 Heh. It was designed already. Mad Magazine parody of Car and Driver magazine. Introducing the Mitsubishi Micro Mini Midget V Zero. The only complaint was the gauges were cardboard glued to the dash.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (0EOe9)

275 To me the EV push it a bow to the Church of Global Warming
Posted by: Skip

Verily I say unto you, the oceans will boil, the forests will burn, and deserts will appear in the wake of a rider on an ICE buggy!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (FVME7)

276 93
‘ you have a smart thermostat?’
My idea of a smart thermostat is one that let’s me set it to whatever I want while sending the power company a reading that keeps them from fucking with my thermostat.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (jbnUc)

277 It’s a much better investment than throwing money into an$5k car and driving a 9 year older vehicle.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:33 AM (YofvK)

Vehicles are not assets. Vehicles are utilities that depreciate. Treating them as assets guarantees that you will worry about losing value.
I bought a large number of thousand dollar cars on the side of the road, and drove them for two years. Amortization: fifty bucks a month.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (D7oie)

278 >>> A great big clockwork spring with a giant key coming out of the trunk. That's the ticket.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:42 AM (0EOe9)
++++
Combine it with an electric winging mechanism, and it would be an EV.Electric motor to wind it is the input power, the spring is a battery. Design it and line up for subsidy checks.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:43 AM (mwCIn)

There were big flywheel designs. Spin up from breaking. You wouldn't want that to happen in a turn. Electrical regenerative breaking is a better idea for that.

Posted by: banana Dream at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (Y6IkP)

279 217 Billionaire collectors usually are not laundering money (Russian Billionaires may be the exception). Bill Gates bought The Codex Leicester ( one of DaVinci’s notebook ) for 31million.

Posted by: Headlines
------
They use the strategy for tax avoidance via cap gains and the runup in values before 'donating' the item for a tax deduction. Given all of that is legal, not money laundering in the illegal sense but that is because they pay legislators to make sure those loopholes are available for them.

The cap gains rate is theoretically there to promote investment but obviously 'investment' in a painting, rare object, etc already produced is not particularly a worthwhile economic activity.

Ditto for runup in value donations from such items. but virtue signalling on the cheap has long been an item for our wealthy.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (ZcPYF)

280 That reminds me.

My mom used to call Jane Pauley "Cerebral Pauley."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (Zz0t1)

281 236 Turns out they're horrible sports cars. Races often require two laps. And in reality each time you go to the well you wonder "am I going to get home?" even more than you normally do, which is apparently already always.

If you want to go silently drag race once or twice they're probably interesting for a moment. Again, right up until the drive says "Okay, I can't do that again because I have to drive home" and one of those new stripped out Corollas wins the next heat.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (2WOSG)
++++
Those are slightly different scenarios. A "sports car" is not the same as a "track day car."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:40 AM (mwCIn)
_________________

EVs are pretty much useless at the track. Maybe you get a few laps and that's it. Everyone else is getting a full day, usually 4-5 sessions of 15 minutes each, and using probably a full tank of gas.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (iFTx/)

282 Pretty sure that was Dateline NBC back in the Stone Phillips and/or Jane Pauley days.
Posted by: Doof at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (XIF9h)

Meh. Same difference.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (Zz0t1)

True. But I demand accuracy!!!

Posted by: Doof at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (XIF9h)

283 "But that’s what you’re doing spending $3k on a $5k, 20 year old car."

True unless you like the car and there is nothing on the market comparable for the money. A similar car to mine new on the market is $75-100k then you have the additional insurance costs.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (MeG8a)

284 Vehicles are not assets.

--------------

Of course they are assets.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (sX1BW)

285 264 If you shook her hand was it firm or squishy?
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (1jdMT)

========

I did, but I don't remember. Probably firm. In my experience politicians have firm handshakes.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (GBKbO)

I always imagined that Ted Cruz’s handshake would be clammy (and I like him for the most part). I hate the wet clammy handshake….

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (1jdMT)

286 Step brother had a 74 Maverick (basically a 4 door pinto). That thing was actually bad ass. Had the I-6 in it, but was torquey and fun to drive. . . .

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024

***
My first car was a '75 four-door Maverick, which was styled a lot like the first gen Mustang. Metallic green over matching green fabric/vinyl, A/C, power steering but not power brakes, AM radio. I'd find it tinny and unpleasant to drive today, but I loved it then.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (J2vNu)

287 I haven't thought about Jane Pauley in years. I guess a lot of guys fancied her back in the day. She never did anything for me, though.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (9yWhg)

288 I laugh at the Ford F150 commercials that light up the house when the power goes out. GTFO. Yea, it will work great for about 12 minutes, then you also have no power and a dead truck.
Posted by: Minnfidel

And no way to get to the fueling station for a bucket of electrons.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (SbJgO)

289 In addition to the purchase price of a new car, which has now reached absurd levels, there is also the need to pay property tax on it. An old car with low blue book value is minimally taxed. A brand new, expensive car will cost a small fortune just to own.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:49 AM (CsUN+)

290 Expect hybrids to be pushed now. Unless we get a miracle in November and get rid of the stupid high CAFE fuel goals and other federal BS meant to force people out of owning cars.

And I owned a Prius hybrid and it was a good enough car that my parents bought one for themselves. They make more sense than a full EV for boosting MPG.

But I'd prefer for the U.S. to wake up and realize that Al Gore's church of GAIA cult should be regarded about like the Jim Jone's cult.

Posted by: PaleRider at January 22, 2024 11:49 AM (3cGpq)

291 Also, not that busty.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (9yWhg)

-------------

First love was small-breasted and used to say that anything more than a mouthful was a waste.

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:49 AM (nW4F6)

292 Mandate 100% EVs for cities over 700k. And ban gas stoves while you are at it. And ship in 1M illegal immigrants to each city. Give them what they say they want. The best way to troll a liberal is say "Sounds like a great idea! You first!"

Posted by: Tom at January 22, 2024 11:49 AM (ZvGil)

293 Vehicles are not assets.

--------------

Of course they are assets.
Posted by: SH

Your 1985 K Car is not an asset.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:50 AM (SbJgO)

294 This wasn't really an attack on EVs generally. Unless I missed one, none of these articles even suggested rethinking pimping these the EV pieces of shit. This was primarily an attack on Tesla. Elon Musk is now the bad guy and must be destroyed.

This was my take as well. It's a very sad state of affairs that I now view all media reporting through the lens of leftist narrative advancement.

Posted by: Halfhand at January 22, 2024 11:50 AM (y0xrl)

295 Great work, Buck!

Yesterday, I accidentally set off a long explanation of technical details about hybrids by an enthusiast who used to work for Ford. He started out defending EVs, but ending up concluding that they were not ready for prime time.

Posted by: KT at January 22, 2024 11:50 AM (rrtZS)

296 Your 1985 K Car is not an asset.

--------------

It is if you are a Private Investigator.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:50 AM (sX1BW)

297 289 In addition to the purchase price of a new car, which has now reached absurd levels, there is also the need to pay property tax on it. An old car with low blue book value is minimally taxed. A brand new, expensive car will cost a small fortune just to own.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:49 AM (CsUN+)

Not every state has a car tax like VA...and yes, I get cheap cars b/c of VA's car tax, and hold my cars awhile - incentives at work...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (exHjb)

298 >I haven't thought about Jane Pauley in years. I guess a lot of guys fancied her back in the day.
---

I was more a Dorothy Hamill enthusiast

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (geLO8)

299 a couple of years ago a brand new graduate got hired at the company I used to work for and he promptly dropped $54k for a new Tesla Y. He crowed and crowed about what a cool car it was. Within about a week he hit a Chevy full of illegals in Houston. They all bailed out and ran away.
His air bags didn't go off. He could open both front doors. It was totaled because at that time Tesla was not producing enough parts for replacements.
So cool.

Posted by: DanMan at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (8uzBS)

300 Question: wasn't it a thing in the cold zones years ago to 'plug the car in' to run low level heaters so the engine and fluids would not completely freeze? Couldn't you do something similar for EVs to be able to charge them?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

301 Gov. Burgum Announces He Won't Seek Third Term

http://tinyurl.com/9hvbkemr

Posted by: old chick at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (sOete)

302 “Tesla owners say EV batteries won't charge as brutally cold temperatures hit Chicago“

It helps.if after you plug it in, you pee on it.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (W/lyH)

303 Would you invest $60k into a $100k house even if the house would still only be worth $100k? No of course not. But that’s what you’re doing spending $3k on a $5k, 20 year old car.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (YofvK)
++++
Depends on useful life and what you're after. If I want a nice place to live and I'm in it for the long haul, I might make non-economic investments into my house. The total return isn't the point because "this is a place I want to live for a long time" is the point.

If my car is worth $5k and needs another $5k of repairs (say, engine or transmission), that looks insane on the surface but in that current state, the car only has scrap value because it isn't a car anymore. I'll get a couple of hundred bucks for it, then take my repair budget as a down payment and go pick up a $10k car loan for the $15k late-model car. If the car is otherwise in decent shape and I can expect several more years of workable operation after the major repair, I might gamble on doing the repair rather than replacing it since the interest on the $10k, 4-year note at 9% is about two grand - or 40% of the repair cost - that I could otherwise save.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (mwCIn)

304 Vehicles are not assets. Vehicles are utilities that depreciate.

—

If you want to treat them like that, go ahead. But they are assets. Anything I own that I can sell for a positive value is an asset. And the rate of depreciation decreases every year. By year 10ish the depreciation rate is virtually flat for most cars.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (YofvK)

305 Mandate 100% EVs for cities over 700k. And ban gas stoves while you are at it. And ship in 1M illegal immigrants to each city. Give them what they say they want. The best way to troll a liberal is say "Sounds like a great idea! You first!"
Posted by: Tom

Mandate EV busses for cities that get below freezing in winter.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (SbJgO)

306 EV's.

Just leave them by the side of the road for the homeless to use as a Soup Kitchen or a toilet.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (EvkyC)

307 Not every state has a car tax like VA...and yes, I get cheap cars b/c of VA's car tax, and hold my cars awhile - incentives at work...
--------------
Same here.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (uqyzO)

308 279 217 Billionaire collectors usually are not laundering money (Russian Billionaires may be the exception). Bill Gates bought The Codex Leicester ( one of DaVinci’s notebook ) for 31million.

Posted by: Headlines
------
They use the strategy for tax avoidance via cap gains and the runup in values before 'donating' the item for a tax deduction. Given all of that is legal, not money laundering in the illegal sense but that is because they pay legislators to make sure those loopholes are available for them.

The cap gains rate is theoretically there to promote investment but obviously 'investment' in a painting, rare object, etc already produced is not particularly a worthwhile economic activity.

Ditto for runup in value donations from such items. but virtue signalling on the cheap has long been an item for our wealthy.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:47 AM (ZcPYF)
____________

In many cases the crazy-high sales of art or collectibles are to "anonymous" buyers. That always raises red flags to me as to whether the sale is on the up-and-up.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (iFTx/)

309 289 Here in Arkansas we have personal property tax on vehicles (I'm exempt, disabled vet). Also no sales tax on cars under $4K. Many, many cars are sold well below book in AR, with a wink and a nod.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:52 AM (0EOe9)

310 Here's something that's interesting to realize:

EVs are less popular than manual transmissions. 1.7% total sales annually.

There are more manual transmission cars on the road than EVs.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (2WOSG)

311 And I just know that all these dead cars are going to be either broken into and ransacked or stolen entirely. It's Chicago.

Posted by: PJ at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (G1dq6)

312 300 Question: wasn't it a thing in the cold zones years ago to 'plug the car in' to run low level heaters so the engine and fluids would not completely freeze? Couldn't you do something similar for EVs to be able to charge them?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

If you live in a single family home with a garage...

How many of those does downtown Chicago have?

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (exHjb)

313 I point and laugh at my neighbor as he swishes by in his Tesla with his nose held high. Douchebag.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (eYF7X)

314 What the world needs is the Renault Dauphine.

Posted by: Pudinhead at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (uqyzO)

315 Seems like most people go to one of two extremes with cars. Either drive the 20 year old beater or buy a brand new car with a loan.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (YofvK)

316 @301

>>Gov. Burgum Announces He Won't Seek Third Term.

Well, there you go, that's Trumps VP.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (rc3Z7)

317 310 Here's something that's interesting to realize:

EVs are less popular than manual transmissions. 1.7% total sales annually.

There are more manual transmission cars on the road than EVs.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (2WOSG)

DU assures me that this is just because of the overwhelming demand for EVs.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (KbCG3)

318 And we're not even touching on tire wear (special expensive EV specific tires) and handling or the part where the EVs weigh the same as large pickup trucks. And those tires wear faster the more fun you have in that heavy one-trick pony.

They can go straight really fast really well for a few times, but anything else is mainly marketing silliness to try to convince people with money to buy one instead of another toy they were considering.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (2WOSG)
++++
True, but having fun on some twisty roads for the morning, having lunch out and then going home is a *much* less intense operating scenario than a track.

Tire wear is a different issue, but is a serious problem. EVs chew through tires and they're expensive to replace.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (mwCIn)

319 296 Your 1985 K Car is not an asset.

--------------

It is if you are a Private Investigator.
Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:50 AM (sX1BW)

Because a Daihatsu won't stand out, right?

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (sm6Pk)

320 316 @301

>>Gov. Burgum Announces He Won't Seek Third Term.

Well, there you go, that's Trumps VP.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (rc3Z7)

=======

Nah. Ace assured me it was Nikki.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (GBKbO)

321 304 Vehicles are not assets. Vehicles are utilities that depreciate.

—

If you want to treat them like that, go ahead. But they are assets. Anything I own that I can sell for a positive value is an asset. And the rate of depreciation decreases every year. By year 10ish the depreciation rate is virtually flat for most cars.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (YofvK)
_______

Vehicles are clearly assets if you own them (putting aside leasing). Except in very rare cases, vehicles are not investments, but they are assets. Anything that has some tangible value is an asset, whether it's expected to appreciate or depreciate.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)

322 I recently talked to my BIL in Iowa where temps are around zero. Unless your car is in an enclosed garage with an electric dipstick you ain't going nowhere he says.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (MeG8a)

323 I haven't thought about Jane Pauley in years. I guess a lot of guys fancied her back in the day. She never did anything for me, though.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (9yWhg)

I always thought she was pretty cute back in the day. I thought that about Katie Couric at first as well

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:55 AM (1jdMT)

324
If you shook her hand was it firm or squishy?
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:44 AM (1jdMT)

Moist and Squishy...

Posted by: browndog wants nothign to do with Miss Vindaloo at January 22, 2024 11:55 AM (TTAGa)

325 From what I've heard from hybrid owners, the acceleration and switch-over is still weird. All in all they still make infinitely more sense than EVs. But you just don't get that VPG (virtue per gallon) that Karen desires.

Posted by: SloPitch Whiffer at January 22, 2024 11:55 AM (wzAuc)

326 In many cases the crazy-high sales of art or collectibles are to "anonymous" buyers. That always raises red flags to me as to whether the sale is on the up-and-up.
Posted by: Elric Blade
-------
Lots of foreign buyers in countries with punishing tax rates too and art/collectibles are a store of value.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:55 AM (ZcPYF)

327 316 @301

>>Gov. Burgum Announces He Won't Seek Third Term.

Well, there you go, that's Trumps VP.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (rc3Z7)

Well, Trump never wants to spend his own money, and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (exHjb)

328 Vehicles are clearly assets if you own them (putting aside leasing). Except in very rare cases, vehicles are not investments, but they are assets. Anything that has some tangible value is an asset, whether it's expected to appreciate or depreciate.
Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)
++++
Yup. Cars are durable goods. They're assets, but usually *not* investments except indirectly (I need a car to go to work, so the car's cost is worth it because without it, I have no income (or similar)). The car itself is a durable good like any other.

So is a house.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (mwCIn)

329 Sounds expensive. I like it.
Posted by: EV Manufacturer at January 22, 2024 11:38 AM (mwCIn)

It would be a boon to owners of ICE cars too. Concrete example: I flew to the Texas MoMee in October from Calgary. Parked the 'burb at Park and Jet and it was about 55 degrees at 0800 on that Wednesday. Flew home the following Monday, and there had been an ice storm and snow (ongoing), and it was about 19 degrees F at 2330 hr. The 'burb started just fine, but I had to run it for 20 minutes just to clear the ice off the windows.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (tkR6S)

330 I wonder if that King of the Hill episode where Hank shook W's hand and discovered that W was a limp fish of a shaker influenced consultants to emphasize stronger handshakes.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (GBKbO)

331 Vehicles are not assets. Vehicles are utilities that depreciate.

—

If you want to treat them like that, go ahead. But they are assets. Anything I own that I can sell for a positive value is an asset. And the rate of depreciation decreases every year. By year 10ish the depreciation rate is virtually flat for most cars.

Posted by: Montec

When you pay $48k for a vehicle and can sell it for $3000, that's a $45k loss. Not an asset.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (SbJgO)

332 @320

>>Nah. Ace assured me it was Nikki.

Yep, Trumps going to announce the 2nd Chicken Tikka Masala drops out, probably after she gets tandoried in SC.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (rc3Z7)

333 FJB is a destroyer. Is there anything he has not degraded?

Posted by: torabora at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (OUiUM)

334 Except we are approaching the point where the electronics and nannyware built into the newer cars makes them less reliable and restricts our freedom. My newest vehicle is an '08 Suburban, and it never had the OnStar crap in it. That's a deal-breaker, in my book.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:45 AM (tkR6S)

Bingo. My brother has a brand new ram promaster. It doesn't have 3K miles on it and it broke down twice already. He's ready to burn it in the driveway. Its an electrical nightmare. He also has a 2006 Ram diesel pickup with 200K on it, probably the best one they ever made. Its in great shape, but he's going to spend 15-20K revamping the entire thing because new ones are 80K and they are dog shit. Once it's done he's going to dump the new promaster.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (VwHCD)

335 Remember how ABC News (I think) got in trouble for doing the same thing with Chevy trucks where they side impacted and 'helped' ignite the fuel?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)
==
It was NBC. I was higher up in the GM ranks at the time and got to watch the specific response GM made about the report. The test NBC had done had been filmed around Indianapolis, GM found the truck and proved what had happened.

A bunch of people at NBC got fired for that. GM let them off the hook financially.

Posted by: Black JEM at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (GZYu7)

336 Well if my choices are exploding pinto or dead EV, gotta say I'm going dead EV. Only seems prudent.

Posted by: Weasel at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (RG6z4)

337 What the world needs is the Renault Dauphine.

Depends on how you pronounce it.
Ray-No Dah-Feen?

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (CsUN+)

338 It was totaled because at that time Tesla was not producing enough parts for replacements.
So cool.

Posted by: DanMan at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (8uzBS)

Ouch. That's a painful lesson for someone to learn. Well, figuratively, since he (hopefully) didn't get hurt too bad in the crash.

Posted by: pookysgirl, whose guardian angels work overtime with hazard pay at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (dtlDP)

339 When you pay $48k for a vehicle and can sell it for $3000, that's a $45k loss. Not an asset.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (SbJgO)
++++
It's still an asset. It just isn't (usually) an investment.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (mwCIn)

340 All of MSM's negative coverage of EVs and Teslas in particular has absolutely nothing to do with its hatred of Elon Musk.

Posted by: Braenyard at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (5WOkT)

341 always thought she was pretty cute back in the day. I thought that about Katie Couric at first as well
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 11:55 AM (1jdMT)

Small window for her. She was cute.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (R4t5M)

342 332 Yep, Trumps going to announce the 2nd Chicken Tikka Masala drops out, probably after she gets tandoried in SC.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (rc3Z7)

=======

Mmm...chicken tikka masala...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (GBKbO)

343 >Unless your car is in an enclosed garage with an electric dipstick you ain't going nowhere he says.

---

recent cold wave (Denver metro), we had subzero temps overnight for 4 days
my 20-yr old F150 started every morning

anecdotal, but still

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (geLO8)

344 Also no sales tax on cars under $4K. Many, many cars are sold well below book in AR, with a wink and a nod.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:52 AM (0EOe9

The VA DMV staff would smile when looking at the sales price shown on the title and say “well let’s look at the blue book”. Pay up citizen

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (gxRWI)

345 But you just don't get that VPG (virtue per gallon) that Karen desires.
Posted by: SloPitch Whiffer
--------
That only happens if Karen is not stuck somewhere in cold temperatures with a dead car waiting to recharge.

Cloud people hate that sort of thing interfering with their virtue signalling because consequences are always supposed to happen to the unworthy, not the select. See the same panic when shops at Rodeo Drive are hit by shoplifting gangs.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (ZcPYF)

346 The 'burb started just fine, but I had to run it for 20 minutes just to clear the ice off the windows.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM

Get a good scraper!

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (4p0Xq)

347 314 Heh. There's a blast from the past. We had one of those many marque foreign car dealers in my home town, the ones where you get a sign, one car and invest fifty bucks for a few parts you're a dealer. There were a few Dauphines around town, mostly stranded along the roadside. If there was ever the Gay car, that was it.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (0EOe9)

348 parked outdoors

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (geLO8)

349 336 Well if my choices are exploding pinto or dead EV, gotta say I'm going dead EV. Only seems prudent.
Posted by: Weasel at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (RG6z4)

Don't short EV's on explody potential...

Posted by: Inogame at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (53oGX)

350 The European banks borrow money at fixed rates and lend at floating rates, the American banks borrow money at floating rates and lend at fixed. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense from the perspective of financial theory either way, since the mismatch causes problems.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at January 22, 2024 11:46 AM (eYoxG)

In the US the big banks own the FED (which is our central bank), and in the rest of the world, the central banks own the big banks

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (D7oie)

351 True, but having fun on some twisty roads for the morning, having lunch out and then going home is a *much* less intense operating scenario than a track.

-

You need new driving friends

No, in all seriousness I understand your point. I just also know that each time that pedal is pushed the car loses range. The little Corolla doesn't have to worry about that. It won't take long before the Corolla will continue his day in the curvy mountain roads while the EV is worrying about how far it is back to Charlotte.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (2WOSG)

352 When you pay $48k for a vehicle and can sell it for $3000, that's a $45k loss. Not an asset.

-------------

Come on Rick - that's not the definition of an asset.

If you drive the vehicle for 5 years to a job that earns you $250,000, it was an asset.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (sX1BW)

353 163 I think large parts of our economy as far as collectibles, etc. are related to money laundering.
Posted by: whig

-

I'm starting to accept that large parts of our society / economy as a whole are related to money laundering. It's very disheartening.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:29 AM (2WOSG)

———-

The laundering doesn’t even include the rigging, most of which benefits the ultra rich.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (nC3Sx)

354 FJB is a destroyer. Is there anything he has not degraded?
Posted by: torabora

The child trafficking market.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (NYzgN)

355 335 A bunch of people at NBC got fired for that. GM let them off the hook financially.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (GZYu7)

=======

To be fair, they are on the same side GM and the media.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (GBKbO)

356 331 When you pay $48k for a vehicle and can sell it for $3000, that's a $45k loss. Not an asset.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (SbJgO)

Nonsense, everything is a competition, and you must find a sucker to defeat.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (sm6Pk)

357 Well if my choices are exploding pinto or dead EV, gotta say I'm going dead EV. Only seems prudent.
Posted by: Weasel at January 22, 2024

***
I'm in there pitching, you know

Posted by: Burning EV at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (J2vNu)

358 @327

>>Well, Trump never wants to spend his own money, and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job.

Trumps going to win Virginia and probably bring Youngkin into his administration.

You should be pretty happy about that.

Or are you one of those very special 15% of "Republicans?"

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (rc3Z7)

359 It seems I remember Pat Buchanan winning the NH primary?

Or was it that his large percentage against incumbent Bush foreshadowed the defeat of Bush in the general?

No matter, my point is:
Look how far to the left the Republicans have drifted where Nikkiii is now the 2nd in NH when it wasn't that long ago the 2nd placed due to the squishiness of the leader.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (C2U4G)

360 The Ford Exploder

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (R4t5M)

361 322 I recently talked to my BIL in Iowa where temps are around zero. Unless your car is in an enclosed garage with an electric dipstick you ain't going nowhere he says.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (MeG8a)
____________

I don't think that's right. I've rented cars on ski trips where they sat overnight in -27 weather. Yes, negative 27. They started up the next day. Oil doesn't "freeze" like water. It just loses the "oily" viscosity until it warms up.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (iFTx/)

362 Vehicles are not assets.

--------------

Of course they are assets.
Posted by: SH

Yup, depreciating assets are still assets, just worth less than you paid.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (f79f5)

363 Well, there you go, that's Trumps VP.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

I thought that the night of the Trump speech in Iowa.

Burgum must being leaving as Gov for an important position one way or the other.

Posted by: old chick at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (sOete)

364 233. Soooo... when is it going to be the most politically convenient for her to "shout her abortion"? Cuz you know she's had at least one.
Posted by: pookysgirl, one-ish month along

Odd timing, indeed, but I don't think she would, regardless. She's not too bright but keeps certain things under wraps much like her mentor, Barrack. And, there are always many other surrogates in/for the Democratic party, such as Cecil Richards formerly head of PPH, and older 'divas' to step up for publicity.

Best wishes & hugs to you & Pooky for your lovely news.

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (GshMh)

365 If my car is worth $5k and needs another $5k of repairs (say, engine or transmission), that looks insane on the surface but in that current state, the car only has scrap value because it isn't a car anymore. I'll get a couple of hundred bucks for it, then take my repair budget as a down payment and go pick up a $10k car loan for the $15k late-model car. If the car is otherwise in decent shape and I can expect several more years of workable operation after the major repair, I might gamble on doing the repair rather than replacing it since the interest on the $10k, 4-year note at 9% is about two grand - or 40% of the repair cost - that I could otherwise save.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (mwCIn)
***

But!!! But!!! She likes the color.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (W/lyH)

366 I knew the F150 "lightning" was a bust when Tyler Hoover (Hoovies Garage on youtube) got ahold of one and barely got 75 miles of range towing a '30 Model A truck.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (f6YJh)

367 Musk's Tesla should have the Sybian option available. Blow the Karen market wide open so to speak.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (eYF7X)

368 344 Also no sales tax on cars under $4K. Many, many cars are sold well below book in AR, with a wink and a nod.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:52 AM (0EOe9

The VA DMV staff would smile when looking at the sales price shown on the title and say “well let’s look at the blue book”. Pay up citizen
Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (gxRWI)

At one point, I had an 18 year old dented Chrysler Sebring that VA still said was worth $1500 b/c if it was worth less than $1K, I wouldn't have to pay the car tax on it...yeah, I figure there are 5 cars in the whole state they let drop below $1K - probably all driven by politicians...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (exHjb)

369 FJB is a destroyer. Is there anything he has not degraded?

Posted by: torabora at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (OUiUM)

--------------

At least he hasn't yet raped his German Shepherd "Commander."

Wait, wut?

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (nW4F6)

370 EVs aren't the solution to all of our climate problems??? C'mon, Buck - next you'll tell me we don't need to ban styrofoam cups and plastic grocery bags.

Posted by: Doof at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (XIF9h)

371 There were a few Dauphines around town, mostly stranded along the roadside. If there was ever the Gay car, that was it.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM

Le'Car is holding on line two.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (4p0Xq)

372 342 Mmm...chicken tikka masala...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (GBKbO)

Libsoftiktok has been circulating a picture from the days when ol' Nimrata was eating too damned much of it.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (sm6Pk)

373 A neighbor just bought a 1969 Chevy Impala convertible.
I'm sure it is completely restored by the looks of it Looks mint, new canvas, paint, tires, chrome.
I wonder if he won it a poker game.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (MeG8a)

374 We getting a Trump rant in 5 minutes?

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (fwDg9)

375 OT

What’s the difference between a Buffalo Bill and a dollar bill ?

You get four solid quarters from a dollar bill

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (geLO8)

376 359 No matter, my point is:
Look how far to the left the Republicans have drifted where Nikkiii is now the 2nd in NH when it wasn't that long ago the 2nd placed due to the squishiness of the leader.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (C2U4G)

=======

If I remember correctly, NH has been much further to the left of the other early Republican states for a long time.

It's always the last, best hope for "centrist" candidates before they get wiped out in SC.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (GBKbO)

377 No vehicle is an investment unless it's part of your job.
If you are a wrecker driver and buy a wrecker it's an
investment.

Posted by: Braenyard at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (5WOkT)

378 No, in all seriousness I understand your point. I just also know that each time that pedal is pushed the car loses range. The little Corolla doesn't have to worry about that. It won't take long before the Corolla will continue his day in the curvy mountain roads while the EV is worrying about how far it is back to Charlotte.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (2WOSG)
++++
Yup, true.

But a lot less fun. EV sports cars are fun. The way they deliver power is fun. The torque curve is fun. The handling (on a good one) is fun. The acceleration is fun.

If what you're after is fun and you don't really care about the comparative cost or the issue like tires, an EV can be a good choice. Different strokes, etc.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (mwCIn)

379 Also a car payment isn’t a 100% cost.

Say there is a $500 car payment and of that amount $50 goes to interest and $450 to pay down the loan. The cost to the car owner is $50/mo not $500. The other $450 is just transferred on your balance sheet but it’s still $450 that is yours.

This is a simple example obviously ignoring extra insurance costs or sales tax, etc for a new car.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (YofvK)

380 Well, Trump never wants to spend his own money, and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job...
Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:56 AM (exHjb)

Trump needs those ND electoral delegates!

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (MNhXM)

381 300 Question: wasn't it a thing in the cold zones years ago to 'plug the car in' to run low level heaters so the engine and fluids would not completely freeze? Couldn't you do something similar for EVs to be able to charge them?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

My 22 year old IDI diesel truck has a plug receptacle right on the front bumper. I can plug it and it warms up an 800W heating element in the coolant passage of the engine. Via normal thermodynamic processes, it acutally causes the coolant to "flow" throughout the engine block by itself, thus warming up everything.

However, it's not needed. Just Saturday I cranked it up when it was 8'F after a single glow plug cycle and while it was more clickity-clackity than usually, I was up and running.

Something those idiots in Chicago can't claim.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (8gEf6)

382 You don't believe that tripped over the dog getting out of the shower do you?

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

383 358 @327

>>Well, Trump never wants to spend his own money, and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job.

Trumps going to win Virginia and probably bring Youngkin into his administration.

You should be pretty happy about that.

Or are you one of those very special 15% of "Republicans?"
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (rc3Z7)

I know Trump's not winning VA, b/c I'm in reality. But you don't seem to want to put in the work or money to try to win it for your candidate, so you and I are giving him the same one vote. The difference is I know mine is pointless and will be going all in on the House...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (exHjb)

384 337 What the world needs is the Renault Dauphine.

Depends on how you pronounce it.
Ray-No Dah-Feen?
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (CsUN+)

THAT'S "DOLPHIN"!!!

Posted by: Brian Blessed at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (T+Iwg)

385 372 342 Mmm...chicken tikka masala...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:57 AM (GBKbO)

Libsoftiktok has been circulating a picture from the days when ol' Nimrata was eating too damned much of it.
Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (sm6Pk)

=======

Can't blame her. Indian food is delicious. It's the best English food you'll ever have.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (GBKbO)

386 Hoovie single-handedly destroyed the Lightning. He went into that video as a fan.

Oddly, he hasn't shown up in my feed much since then. Probably apropos of nothing.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (NYzgN)

387 Best wishes & hugs to you & Pooky for your lovely news.

Posted by: L - Confident they're working on new 'rope-a-dope' techniques for the Presidential election at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM (GshMh)

Awww, thanks! The Horde is a wonderful place.

Posted by: pookysgirl, whose guardian angels work overtime with hazard pay at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (dtlDP)

388 Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (YofvK)

Less depreciation

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (MNhXM)

389 @363

>>I thought that the night of the Trump speech in Iowa.

I'm happy about that, I liked what I heard on the debate stage from him, he will temper Trump and he's the closest to Jack Kemp we are going to get.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (rc3Z7)

390 69 Was a very good year for Chevy.

Posted by: Braenyard at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (5WOkT)

391 OT

The latest example comes from the House Judiciary Committee, which announced on Wednesday that the Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government is in possession of documents showing that our government is surveilling the financial transactions of people buying Bibles and other religious texts.

-
Uh oh. I have probably a dozen Bibles and, in fact, I bought another kind of Bible last night, The Story by.David Fincher. He just rearranged the verses in the four Gospel chronologically to present a unified, interwoven story of Christ.

http://tinyurl.com/ksmphx9z

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (FVME7)

392 A lot of Teslas fail at simple aesthetics, particularly those with no grill. They don't really need a grill, but it looks weird. As a Clevelander, I think the car should be rebranded the MayFly because it has no mouth.

Posted by: Oglebay at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (ogTiX)

393 What the world needs is the Renault Dauphine.
*
Depends on how you pronounce it.
Ray-No Dah-Feen?
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024

***
In late '83 I rented a Renault. Not a Dauphine; I can't recall the model. Alliance? It was a tiny thing compared to my big Mercury, nowhere near the power, but it was kinda fun to try it as a change. I was nver tempted to buy one.

Posted by: Burning EV at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (J2vNu)

394 At one point, I had an 18 year old dented Chrysler Sebring that VA still said was worth $1500 b/c if it was worth less than $1K, I wouldn't have to pay the car tax on it...yeah, I figure there are 5 cars in the whole state they let drop below $1K - probably all driven by politicians...
Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM

Good old MN taxes you on the "average" loan value on a vehicle, then it falls to a flat rate. A car bought new and resold here is taxed numerous times. Not to mention getting to pay hundreds for license tabs each year. Fuckers.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (4p0Xq)

395 No vehicle is an investment unless it's part of your job.
If you are a wrecker driver and buy a wrecker it's an
investment.
Posted by: Braenyard at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (5WOkT)
++++
Some are. Rare cars and limited-run vehicles can be investments (some Porches have been in this condition periodically). Classic cars can be an investment, too.

But most cars aren't.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (mwCIn)

396 On X I saw a video of the new Toyota pickup truck for $10k available only in Asia.
Everything is a la carte, even the bumpers. 4 cylinder diesel, manual trans.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (MeG8a)

397 If you want to treat them like that, go ahead. But they are assets. Anything I own that I can sell for a positive value is an asset. And the rate of depreciation decreases every year. By year 10ish the depreciation rate is virtually flat for most cars.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (YofvK)

all your money is running out of a hole in the side of your piggy bank, and nothing will stop the loss. Either treat it as an expense or fret about how you are getting poorer.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (D7oie)

398 Here's something that's interesting to realize:

EVs are less popular than manual transmissions. 1.7% total sales annually.

There are more manual transmission cars on the road than EVs.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:53 AM (2WOSG)
***

Daughters of Diogenes learned on a stick.
Sons-in-law, no.
There were humorous incidents.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (W/lyH)

399 @386

>>Oddly, he hasn't shown up in my feed much since then. Probably apropos of nothing.

He wen through a nasty divorce and had to sell most of his collection to satisfy the distribution of assets that his wife had no hand in amassing.

But, there it is.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (rc3Z7)

400 300 Question: wasn't it a thing in the cold zones years ago to 'plug the car in' to run low level heaters so the engine and fluids would not completely freeze? Couldn't you do something similar for EVs to be able to charge them?
Posted by: Aetius451AD

Diesels in cold climates require plug in engine heaters (or be kept in a heated garage) because otherwise the glow plugs simply do not have enough umph to ignite the diesel. Once you have it running and the proper fuel degelling additive in the tank, you can run them at well below zero temps.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (ZcPYF)

401 Indian food is delicious. It's the best English food you'll ever have.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife and I joke that the English conquered India to get decent cuisine.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (9yWhg)

402 351 No, in all seriousness I understand your point. I just also know that each time that pedal is pushed the car loses range. The little Corolla doesn't have to worry about that. It won't take long before the Corolla will continue his day in the curvy mountain roads while the EV is worrying about how far it is back to Charlotte.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (2WOSG)

Just remember, if you let the water spill out of the cup, the tofu is ruined.

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (sm6Pk)

403 The other $450 is just transferred on your balance sheet but it’s still $450 that is yours.

You are never going to get that back out of it unless it becomes a collector. House is a bit different in that regard, but if you do it wrong, even a house costs you more than it it worth in the long run.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (NYzgN)

404 But a lot less fun. EV sports cars are fun. The way they deliver power is fun. The torque curve is fun. The handling (on a good one) is fun. The acceleration is fun.

If what you're after is fun and you don't really care about the comparative cost or the issue like tires, an EV can be a good choice. Different strokes, etc.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

-

I will also readily admit that I'm a big fan of the "music" of driving, and the EVs I've ridden are utterly soulless. Winding out a twenty year old Honda Fit is more appealing.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (2WOSG)

405 396 On X I saw a video of the new Toyota pickup truck for $10k available only in Asia.
Everything is a la carte, even the bumpers. 4 cylinder diesel, manual trans.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (MeG8a)

========

I think it's going to come to America as well, but it won't be as base. The "standard" will have more, but it should still cost something like $15,000.

But, this is the vehicle I've wanted the car companies to be making more available, not less. Wheels and a chasis are base.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (GBKbO)

406 Ditch your gas guzzler for a coal guzzler.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (63Dwl)

407 But a lot less fun. EV sports cars are fun. The way they deliver power is fun. The torque curve is fun. The handling (on a good one) is fun. The acceleration is fun.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM (mwCIn)

Speak for yourself. Having driven a Tesla Plaid, the "feeling" of speed is greatly diminished when there's no engine or exhaust noise. It's almost a sterile environment - like going to the sperm bank to make a deposit versus the way God intended us to procreate.

If you want a truly religious experience behind the wheel... find the next Ferrari 458 and just.... sit in it.... turn it on... wait for it to warm up and then just put the right foot down. Doesn't even need to be in gear. Listen to the glorious tones of a flat plane crank engine and the acoustic tuning of a Stradivarius.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (8gEf6)

408 EVs aren't the solution to all of our climate problems??? C'mon, Buck - next you'll tell me we don't need to ban styrofoam cups and plastic grocery bags.

*plastic straws begin circling ominously as Jaws theme begins*

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (CsUN+)

409 REN-NAU Dough-feen

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (zZu0s)

410 Of course they are assets.
Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 11:48 AM (sX1BW)

They are consumable assets. Eventually you use them up.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (tkR6S)

411 401 Indian food is delicious. It's the best English food you'll ever have.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife and I joke that the English conquered India to get decent cuisine.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (9yWhg)

=======

That's not a joke.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (GBKbO)

412 Uh oh. I have probably a dozen Bibles and, in fact, I bought another kind of Bible last night, The Story by.David Fincher. He just rearranged the verses in the four Gospel chronologically to present a unified, interwoven story of Christ.

http://tinyurl.com/ksmphx9z
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (FVME7)

Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3)

413 >>Gov. Burgum Announces He Won't Seek Third Term.

Well, there you go, that's Trumps VP.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (rc3Z7)

=======

Nah. Ace assured me it was Nikki.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:54 AM (GBKbO)

--------

I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.

Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (nW4F6)

414 Some are. Rare cars and limited-run vehicles can be investments (some Porches have been in this condition periodically). Classic cars can be an investment, too.

But most cars aren't.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

-

I no-joke think that a sub-5000 mile Aztek will go for BIG bucks one day.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (2WOSG)

415 You are never going to get that back out of it unless it becomes a collector.

House is a bit different in that regard, but if you do it wrong, even a house costs you more than it it worth in the long run.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy

Don't bail of out a neighborhood in time and that $400,000 house won't sell for shit.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (SbJgO)

416 I have another EV question. Let's say you have one as an extra vehicle you only take for short trips in perfect weather.
So you charge it up and then unplug until you want to use it.
Would an EV work after a week unplugged and unstart3d?

Posted by: Northernlurker at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (SExFt)

417 401 Indian food is delicious. It's the best English food you'll ever have.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife and I joke that the English conquered India to get decent cuisine.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (9yWhg)

--------------

Indian food sucks.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (sX1BW)

418
all your money is running out of a hole in the side of your piggy bank, and nothing will stop the loss. Either treat it as an expense or fret about how you are getting poorer.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 12:02 PM (D7oie)

The cost of a vehicle is depreciation and maintenance. And if there’s a loan, the interest. That’s how accounting works.

But you do you.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (YofvK)

419 Different strokes

Two strokes.
Four strokes.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (1Zjbf)

420 >>371 There were a few Dauphines around town, mostly stranded along the roadside. If there was ever the Gay car, that was it.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM

Le'Car is holding on line two.
Posted by: Minnfidel

Fiat 500 calls in.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (eYF7X)

421 Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:00 PM

My cars all have the plug in. Keeps the antifreeze warm so the block is heated. Works like a charm. Not sure why they don't have something like this in an EV, to cycle antifreeze around the battery to keep it warm.

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (4p0Xq)

422 393 The Renault Alliance was a joint AMC Renault venture. That says it all.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (0EOe9)

423 >Ditch your gas guzzler for a coal guzzler.

that's silly- you can't 'guzzle' coal
you chew it

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (geLO8)

424 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (FVME7)

I have one Bible I bought In 1973 I have on my nightstand.

The Living Bible

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (MNhXM)

425 386 Hoovie single-handedly destroyed the Lightning. He went into that video as a fan.

Oddly, he hasn't shown up in my feed much since then. Probably apropos of nothing.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (NYzgN)

Jerryrigeverything just released a video of a Cybertruck *yak* *vomit* *faint* only got 90 miles of range while towing his blasphemed electric converted HMMWV.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (8gEf6)

426 @405

>>But, this is the vehicle I've wanted the car companies to be making more available, not less. Wheels and a chasis are base.

It's more than likely going to be the exact same thing as the Ford Maverick.

The Maverick was supposed to be a sub-20k mock pickup, but has now morphed into a roughly 30-40k pickup truck.

The Toyota will probably start at around 25k and the base OTD price will be closer to 28-30k.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (rc3Z7)

427 I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.

Interesting. However, I think it's not his time. He's had too little experience.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (CsUN+)

428 Judge orders the release of men framed by the FBI: “The FBI invented the conspiracy; identified the targets; manufactured the ordinance.”

http://tinyurl.com/4uk85px7

-
I know what you're thinking. Which totally made up conspiracy?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (FVME7)

429 And I think EVs can continue as a niche market, commuter car. They probably make sense for west coast cites with smog issues and mild climates. And for people with a 4 car garage that want to virtue signal on their commute for 6-7 months of the year. But only over credentialed idiots and various gub'mints could have thought EV busses or EV as the sole vehicle made sense in places that have real winters.

Posted by: PaleRider at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (3cGpq)

430 Ditch your gas guzzler for a coal guzzler.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (63Dwl)

Eustace The Mountain Man converted his Toyota 4Runner into a wood burning vehicle .

Wonder how he's doing...

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (EvkyC)

431 Or wait, is it dough-fawn?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (zZu0s)

432 413 I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (nW4F6)

Was Youngkin ever being considered?

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (sm6Pk)

433 And the award for Stupidest looking EV goes to....Rivian

Posted by: Maj. Healey at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (eYF7X)

434 428 Judge orders the release of men framed by the FBI: “The FBI invented the conspiracy; identified the targets; manufactured the ordinance.”

http://tinyurl.com/4uk85px7

-
I know what you're thinking. Which totally made up conspiracy?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:06 PM (FVME7)

=======

The moon landing?!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (GBKbO)

435 At one point, I had an 18 year old dented Chrysler Sebring that VA still said was worth $1500 b/c if it was worth less than $1K, I wouldn't have to pay the car tax on it...yeah, I figure there are 5 cars in the whole state they let drop below $1K - probably all driven by politicians...
Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:59 AM
++++
The CO "ownership tax" is insane. It's based not on the price you paid for the car, but on what they call "original taxable value" which is 85% of sticker MSRP.

It then decays over the next seven years until it reaches zero, which is then a flat rate IIRC.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (mwCIn)

436 244
‘ Quick Google search shows in Norway’
No one here wants to be like Norway even if it did somehow promote EV usage.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (jbnUc)

437 I no-joke think that a sub-5000 mile Aztek will go for BIG bucks one day.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (2WOSG)

https://carsandbids.com/search/pontiac/aztek

Looks like you could get $10k for one in good condition!

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (8gEf6)

438 For example, micro inverter (changing DC into AC) solar cells work better than the cheaper single inverter solar systems. The micro inverter has less safety issues, allows each panel to generate maximum power separately, and can be backfed into the house if external power fails (assuming a grid tied system). Price is still fairly expensive on them but if you compare the cost with a nat gas generator on standby plus annual maintenance, it begins to make economic sense if you get a price drop from its current premium.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 11:41 AM (ZcPYF)
==
Solar at the source can work - if you live in the right place. The US has a fair amount of good places to do that - mostly west of the Mississippi. Other places on the globe have a lot less.

Posted by: Black JEM at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (GZYu7)

439 432 413 I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (nW4F6)

Was Youngkin ever being considered?
Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (sm6Pk)

He won't want it. He can bankroll himself in 2028, and now his biggest competitor, DeSantis, was damaged from this race...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:07 PM (exHjb)

440 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3

Again, The Living Bible.

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (MNhXM)

441 I no-joke think that a sub-5000 mile Aztek will go for BIG bucks one day.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (

The Aztek looks like it was designed by a high school kid in shop class. It was the day before the assignment was due. He went out to his dad's garage and cut out a chunk of wood on the mitre saw. 45 and 22 degree angles! Looks great!

Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (4p0Xq)

442 UHD sales make up about 1/6 of all disc sales, and it's considered niche compared to Blu-ray and DVD (still king).

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (GBKbO)

443 and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job...
Posted by: Nova Local

I don't know what that means, but, Burgum has been a very strong conservative for 2 terms as Gov of ND and has supported Trump since 2015.

Posted by: old chick at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (sOete)

444 Nova local. Please clarify your comment about PDT not spending his own money. Are you talking about campaign funds or legal fees. Thanks

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (2NHgQ)

445 Mom of girl strangled in home by alleged MS-13 gang member sues Homeland Security for $100M

http://tinyurl.com/mn72hvvw

-
I wish her luck but I don't think she has a prayer.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (FVME7)

446 Was Youngkin ever being considered?

I expect so. I don't know if one must resign the governorship in order to run, though.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (CsUN+)

447 I have another EV question. Let's say you have one as an extra vehicle you only take for short trips in perfect weather.
So you charge it up and then unplug until you want to use it.
Would an EV work after a week unplugged and unstart3d?

-

The range would vary depending on other factors like temperature, but I'm sure you'd be able to at least see the lights turn on for it to tell you to charge it.

It's funny that you hit on EV ownership so well here, though:

"I have another EV question. Let's say you have one as an extra vehicle"

That is the info NO ONE will release, and I'm betting it's 99% of EV owners. They all have real cars to use when they need real cars, but they talk about EVs constantly and how great they are.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (2WOSG)

448 Question: wasn't it a thing in the cold zones years ago to 'plug the car in' to run low level heaters so the engine and fluids would not completely freeze? Couldn't you do something similar for EVs to be able to charge them?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

Still is. Block heaters are standard equipment on cars sold in cold climates. My understanding of EV's is that their software causes them to run a heater to keep the battery pack warm.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (tkR6S)

449 Don't bail of out a neighborhood in time and that $400,000 house won't sell for shit.
Posted by: rickb223

Well, there is that, too.
But take a 30yr mortgage then cash out re-fi every couple years to pay off credit cards or put new siding on, and you are paying interest forever.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (NYzgN)

450 440 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3

Again, The Living Bible.
Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (MNhXM)

Thanks.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (KbCG3)

451 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3)

That is never a dumb question.

it does remind me of the Sheldon joke.
Hey Sheldon! How come your grandma reads the Bible so much?
I think she's cramming for her finals.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (W/lyH)

452 If you want a truly religious experience behind the wheel... find the next Ferrari 458 and just.... sit in it.... turn it on... wait for it to warm up and then just put the right foot down. Doesn't even need to be in gear. Listen to the glorious tones of a flat plane crank engine and the acoustic tuning of a Stradivarius.
Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (8gEf6)
++++
I'm with you (and Nikki) in that I love the *sound* of nice engines. And yeah, EVs don't do it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (mwCIn)

453
Plastic straws? Now do discarded "COVID" masks.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (1Zjbf)

454 443 and Burgum is not above doing it to buy the job...
Posted by: Nova Local

I don't know what that means, but, Burgum has been a very strong conservative for 2 terms as Gov of ND and has supported Trump since 2015.

Posted by: old chick at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (sOete)

Look up how Burgum got in the 1st 2 debates...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (exHjb)

455 I kind like the idea of sneaking up on proPalestinian protectors in an EV.

Posted by: Northernlurker at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (SExFt)

456
He won't want it. He can bankroll himself in 2028, and now his biggest competitor, DeSantis, was damaged from this race...

OTOH, it might be a dynamite ticket with either one or the other at the top.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (CsUN+)

457 I rented a Renault in Europe a few years ago. Pretty nice car. Surprisingly.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (YofvK)

458 413 I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (nW4F6)

Was Youngkin ever being considered?

---------------

Got to say, I have no clue who it could possibly be. But as I've said before, I'm not sure it helps our side to pull out a decent Senator from the Senate for a position that doesn't really matter. Though, I can see why someone would take it since Trump would only be a one-termer.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (sX1BW)

459 Diesels in cold climates require plug in engine heaters (or be kept in a heated garage) because otherwise the glow plugs simply do not have enough umph to ignite the diesel. Once you have it running and the proper fuel degelling additive in the tank, you can run them at well below zero temps.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024

***
A lady I worked with in Denver said she'd lived in Alaska. It was common, she said, to see diesel pickups running in the parking lot of stores. becasue a diesel's idle uses very little fuel, and no one wanted to risk not being able to start up when they came back out. She said on the very coldest nights they'd run their diesel in the garage all night. I don't know how they handled the exhaust fumes, though.

Posted by: Burning EV at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (J2vNu)

460 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3)

I grew up on the NIV, but The Message translation seems to be more "accessible."

Posted by: pookysgirl, amateur theologian at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (dtlDP)

461 453
Plastic straws? Now do discarded "COVID" masks.
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (1Zjbf)

========

But first, servers for The New York Times.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (GBKbO)

462 I no-joke think that a sub-5000 mile Aztek will go for BIG bucks one day.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (

The Aztek looks like it was designed by a high school kid in shop class. It was the day before the assignment was due. He went out to his dad's garage and cut out a chunk of wood on the mitre saw. 45 and 22 degree angles! Looks great!
Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (4p0Xq)

I've always thought the Aztek looked like it was designed as a running shoe.

Posted by: Napoleon XIV at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (AiZBA)

463 I like Indian food. It seems like most is based on the northwestern part of the subcontinent. I've eaten at a couple of places where the cuisine was from a different part of India. Also good, but totally different menu and flavor profiles.

Posted by: Street Shitter at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (L81HX)

464 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:04 PM (KbCG3

Again, The Living Bible.

-

Different people find different appeal, so try a few and don't get discouraged. A friend of mine has a Good News Bible from the 70s or so that is pretty great if you want modern language.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (2WOSG)

465 Xiden, he outed himself as a friend of the other troll raimondo just before the last stolen pres election.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 11:14 AM (f79f5)

Yes, he was a paid plant...
Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 11:15 AM (exHjb)

Al least he got paid for his abuse

Posted by: Harvey Weinstein's Ficus at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (FCbAQ)

466 That is the info NO ONE will release, and I'm betting it's 99% of EV owners. They all have real cars to use when they need real cars, but they talk about EVs constantly and how great they are.
Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (2WOSG)

Of the people I know that own golf carts (neighbors). One has an F150 Golf Cart but also: An Audi Q5, a Audi S4 and a Chevy Traverse. My other neighbor has a Tesla Model S, a Nissan Leaf and a Subaru outback (he literally sells seaweed for a living).

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (8gEf6)

467 The Aztek looks like it was designed by a high school kid in shop class. It was the day before the assignment was due. He went out to his dad's garage and cut out a chunk of wood on the mitre saw. 45 and 22 degree angles! Looks great!
Posted by: Minnfidel

Kinda like the Tesla pick up.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (SbJgO)

468 >>For example, micro inverter (changing DC into AC) solar cells work better than the cheaper single inverter solar systems. The micro inverter has less safety issues, allows each panel to generate maximum power separately, and can be backfed into the house if external power fails (assuming a grid tied system). Price is still fairly expensive on them but if you compare the cost with a nat gas generator on standby plus annual maintenance, it begins to make economic sense if you get a price drop from its current premium.

Micro inverters come with their own set of issues. Australia, who is way ahead of the US with solar adoption, is wrestling with the problem right now.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (ZLI7S)

469 463 I like Indian food. It seems like most is based on the northwestern part of the subcontinent. I've eaten at a couple of places where the cuisine was from a different part of India. Also good, but totally different menu and flavor profiles.
Posted by: Street Shitter at January 22, 2024 12:10 PM (L81HX)

======

The general rule I was told was that the further south you went, the spicier the food because the further south was generally warmer, necessitating more spices to cover up spoiling meat.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (GBKbO)

470 RSV was the Bible translation I grew up on.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (9yWhg)

471 444 Nova local. Please clarify your comment about PDT not spending his own money. Are you talking about campaign funds or legal fees. Thanks
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at January 22, 2024 12:08 PM (2NHgQ)

I'm talking his own millions/billions. Trump will spend what you send him, but not a dime of his funds. So, his supporters better send him a ton if they want an army in the midwest and northeast, where those are the swing states he can win...if he has an army to prevent fraud.

Youngkin spent his own fortune to get the army for VA in 2021. It's the difference between 2 rich candidates.

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (exHjb)

472 Ohio had that bullshit where taxes were to be paid according to Blue Book. It was so unpopular they axed it in less than a year. In my area, you had a lot of people driving "mill cars", anything that would get you to the Republic parking lot and not have to worry about the coke plant fumes destroying it. I paid sales tax on a bomb twice what I paid for it.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (0EOe9)

473 Nobody commented on my Buffalo Bills joke.

Are we not men?

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (geLO8)

474 The Aztek became UGLY because it took a life of its own. Like why does everyone hate Nickelback? Because everyone hates Nickelback.

Is it the most beautiful thing out there? No. But there’s a lot more ugly shit out there.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (YofvK)

475 456
He won't want it. He can bankroll himself in 2028, and now his biggest competitor, DeSantis, was damaged from this race...

OTOH, it might be a dynamite ticket with either one or the other at the top.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM (CsUN+)

Right, but in 2028, Youngkin would now be in the driver seat for the top of the ticket, not DeSantis...just like Cruz didn't recover from 2016...

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (exHjb)

476 I'm now leaning toward it being JD Vance; would help him win the usual (but not in 2020) bellwether state of Ohio.
Posted by: ShainS -- I did not come here to guide lambs, I came here to awaken lions at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (nW4F6)

Was Youngkin ever being considered?

---------------

Got to say, I have no clue who it could possibly be. But as I've said before, I'm not sure it helps our side to pull out a decent Senator from the Senate for a position that doesn't really matter. Though, I can see why someone would take it since Trump would only be a one-termer.
===
NICK SABIN

Posted by: Why the fu k not at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (GDXZc)

477 386 Hoovie single-handedly destroyed the Lightning. He went into that video as a fan.

Oddly, he hasn't shown up in my feed much since then. Probably apropos of nothing.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at January 22, 2024 12:01 PM (NYzgN)

He's going through a divorce and sold about half of his existing collection, but he's been doing videos about twice a week since then. He bought a farm and is trying to build a 60x100 garage on it. He also has a new channel, "Good Morning YouTube" that he hosts with a very attractive girl.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (f6YJh)

478 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)

Though not Catholic, I like the Catholic Study Bible. Has some commentary and footnotes.

Posted by: It's a doorstop though at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (L81HX)

479 I actually felt sorry for Bills fans last night. Right after the game they showed a grown man in the stands bawling his eyes out. No shame. It was a pathetic sight….. but wide right again?!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (1jdMT)

480 Interesting that the headlines mentioning a brand all used Tesla. It's almost like the papers/"news" sites associated with said articles had an axe to grind with a particular car manufacturer.

Also: "“Hertz is selling 20,000 EVs so it can buy more gas guzzlers”. Hmm...no loaded verbiage in that headline.

Posted by: NotEnoughLampposts at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (nWnIH)

481 Remember Biden’s 7.5 billion dollar “investment “ in EV charging stations? Guess how many have been built?

2

Not all that money has been spent of course, but the feds put so many restrictions on how to get those funds (has to be in low income areas, etc) that the program is completely unworkable.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (uKeRS)

482 459 Diesels in cold climates require plug in engine heaters (or be kept in a heated garage) because otherwise the glow plugs simply do not have enough umph to ignite the diesel. Once you have it running and the proper fuel degelling additive in the tank, you can run them at well below zero temps.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024

A diesel that has a properly functioning glow plug system will start just fine. Modern dieself (Duramaxes, Cummins, Powerstrokes) don't even use glow plugs - they use something called a grid heater.

My 22 year old diesel cranks up just fine in very cold temps. As long as the diesel isn't solidified (thats an actual problem) the glow plugs can get it running.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (8gEf6)

483 476 Got to say, I have no clue who it could possibly be. But as I've said before, I'm not sure it helps our side to pull out a decent Senator from the Senate for a position that doesn't really matter. Though, I can see why someone would take it since Trump would only be a one-termer.
===
NICK SABIN
Posted by: Why the fu k not at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (GDXZc)

=======

Any sack of meat.

VP's don't have appreciable effects on voting behaviors, and they don't actually do anything in office.

Jack Kemp's corpse would do.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (GBKbO)

484 She said on the very coldest nights they'd run their diesel in the garage all night. I don't know how they handled the exhaust fumes, though.
Posted by: Burning EV

Vent fan or exhaust hose to the outside. Car dealerships in cold climates do that for repair shops where they'll need the car to run but the bay doors closed.

Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (SbJgO)

485 Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 11:51 AM (YofvK)

Everyone is missing an important bit of information from the original post. Gourmand said he could fit comfortably in this vehicle, unlike most others. That immediately raises its value to him in a way that very few other vehicles could compete with, and those that can are *much* more expensive.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (nC+QA)

486 Hoovie is getting divorced? Bummer. Seems like a good dude.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (YofvK)

487 Was Youngkin ever being considered?
Posted by: XTC
-----
Yes. Don't rule him out either.

I am sure that part of Trump's equation is he doesn't want a Mike Pence II as VP. Pence and his office staff were at the heart of a lot of the turmoil in the administration and Pence took over personnel staffing issues in the 2016 transition period when Christie was 'fired'.

Basically, you deny the GOPe an insurance policy to impeach Trump to get the GOPe VP officeholder it wants. This time, he can impose on the GOP who is his running mate, before, he had to negotiate some sort of peace with the GOPe in 2016 and Pence was the insurance policy for GOPe.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (ZcPYF)

488 My preference for Trump's VP is someone who is an untethered presence that I would like to see running in 2028.

JD Vance
Rand Paul
Vivek (bulldog)
Zeldin
Kari Lake

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (KbCG3)

489 467 The Aztek looks like it was designed by a high school kid in shop class. It was the day before the assignment was due. He went out to his dad's garage and cut out a chunk of wood on the mitre saw. 45 and 22 degree angles! Looks great!
Posted by: Minnfidel

Kinda like the Tesla pick up.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (SbJgO)

I knew the Aztek was bad when my mother said she thought it was kinda cute. She is a wonderful woman in almost every where, but sadly has always had very bad taste, can't help it. I remember helping her at a party for friends at her house once, she said "I got sushi, I don't know much about it, do you think they'll like it?" And I replied "well as long as you didn't buy it at a gas station, I'm sure they will." As I looked at the expression on her face, I thought "oh noooo...."

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (i9ffA)

490 Jack Kemp's corpse would do.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison,

Has it stopped talking yet?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (9yWhg)

491 >>Diesels in cold climates require plug in engine heaters (or be kept in a heated garage) because otherwise the glow plugs simply do not have enough umph to ignite the diesel. Once you have it running and the proper fuel degelling additive in the tank, you can run them at well below zero temps.
Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024

Our 2024 Chevy Duramax came with a block heater standard. Of course, the plugin under the front bumper has a proprietary receptacle so you have to use their power cable. Genius.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (eYF7X)

492 I kind like the idea of sneaking up on proPalestinian protectors in an EV.
Posted by: Northernlurker at January 22, 2024 12:09 PM

Are there EV bulldozers? Asking for a friend.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (jA9ul)

493 >>I'm talking his own millions/billions. Trump will spend what you send him, but not a dime of his funds. So, his supporters better send him a ton if they want an army in the midwest and northeast, where those are the swing states he can win...if he has an army to prevent fraud.

>>Youngkin spent his own fortune to get the army for VA in 2021. It's the difference between 2 rich candidates.

I don't know where you get your info but its wrong. Trump spent close to $70 million of his own money in 2016.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (ZLI7S)

494 I'm a big fan of the "music" of driving

-
Heavy metal thunder?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (FVME7)

495 Right, but in 2028, Youngkin would now be in the driver seat for the top of the ticket, not DeSantis...just like Cruz didn't recover from 2016...

You might be right, you might not be. I think DeSantis has hurt himself a lot less than you think, but who knows? Youngkin will have been out of office for almost 2 years, so he won't be the new face he is now. Regardless, I'd happily take either one at the head of the ticket.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (CsUN+)

496 To be fair, they are on the same side GM and the media.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (GBKbO)
==
Yes, in that they were both members in good standing of the club. But they had very differing opinions on what that meant. NBC was moving very stealthily towards communism and GM wasn't. Of course GM's current leadership is poor, almost as bad as Ford's, and is all in on State supported fascist business support. They are backtracking as quietly as they can. I expect new leadership there next year - especially if Trump wins, they are all going to be out.

Posted by: Black JEM at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (GZYu7)

497 addendum to the Good News Bible post

You can get a sampling of different versions online for free

http://tinyurl.com/3u9uupbw

There's a pulldown on the top right, and you can choose verses on the left.

Posted by: Nikki Haley - Click to see the HQ after DeSantis concedes to Nikki at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (2WOSG)

498 "The Pipeline (the-pipeline.org), which is run by Michael Walsh"
Michael Walsh is of the opinion that the 2020 elections were completely legitimate. Make of that what you will with regard to his intelligence and discernment.

Posted by: Isolden at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (dB99g)

499 Colorado taxed my 2004 F150 for $3

various 'fees' brought that figure up to $133.36

they charge me $25/yr for the plate I bought in 2006

Posted by: Don Black at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (geLO8)

500 490 Jack Kemp's corpse would do.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison,

Has it stopped talking yet?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (9yWhg)

========

That's the trick. It has not! Good enough for radio ads, at least.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (GBKbO)

501 He's going through a divorce and sold about half of his existing collection, but he's been doing videos about twice a week since then. He bought a farm and is trying to build a 60x100 garage on it. He also has a new channel, "Good Morning YouTube" that he hosts with a very attractive girl.
Posted by: Jeff Weimer at January 22, 2024 12:12 PM (f6YJh)

That "very attractive girl" is actually his colleague at Barrett-Jackson and is technically his fiancée now.

And she's a supermodel.

He's given Star Trek nerds the world over hope that they, too, can land a stunningly beautiful blonde.

Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (8gEf6)

502 We do need a weekly car thread. Maybe an aviation thread.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (0EOe9)

503 .

NOOD

An NGO to Fly Illegal Aliens Into America Is Founded By Former "American" Presidents Clinton, Obama, and George W. Bush

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (qPw5n)

504 I wish her luck but I don't think she has a prayer.

Nope.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (V8he0)

505 I don't know where you get your info but its wrong. Trump spent close to $70 million of his own money in 2016.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 12:15 PM (ZLI7S)

What did he spend in 2020? And what did he spend for J6ers? Personally.

Posted by: Nova Local at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (exHjb)

506 I actually felt sorry for Bills fans last night. Right after the game they showed a grown man in the stands bawling his eyes out. No shame. It was a pathetic sight….. but wide right again?!
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (1jdMT)

I laughed.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (R4t5M)

507 BOSS HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (fwDg9)

508 479 I actually felt sorry for Bills fans last night. Right after the game they showed a grown man in the stands bawling his eyes out. No shame. It was a pathetic sight

—

The team that happens to play in the same city where I live lost a game. I’m going to cry now.
🤣

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (YofvK)

509 Get a good scraper!
Posted by: Minnfidel at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (4p0Xq)

My bad. Thought I had one in the burb, but it wasn't there. It was a slow drive home, even once I had it warmed up. Snowing like a bastard, and I was doing good to maintain 40 mph on deserted highways.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (tkR6S)

510 Not all that money has been spent of course, but the feds put so many restrictions on how to get those funds (has to be in low income areas, etc) that the program is completely unworkable.

--

If there's any group that can afford EVs, it's low income people!

/s

Posted by: Lady in Black at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (mupln)

511 Well, just build a bubble over Chicago, heat it with diesel generators and allow all the EVs to recharge there. Problem solved!!!

Posted by: WarEagle82 at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (b5mAA)

512 Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (ZcPYF)

Again the buck never stops with Trump. Always somebody else’s fault.

Posted by: Headlines you would never see in an EV alternate universe at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (MNhXM)

513 There B a NOOD !

Posted by: JT at January 22, 2024 12:16 PM (T4tVD)

514
Again, The Living Bible.

Is that any thing like The Living Constitution?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (63Dwl)

515 Nick Saban would be fine for me.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (sX1BW)

516 ========

I think it's going to come to America as well, but it won't be as base. The "standard" will have more, but it should still cost something like $15,000.

But, this is the vehicle I've wanted the car companies to be making more available, not less. Wheels and a chasis are base.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, walking with hope in America with Frank Capra at January 22, 2024 12:03 PM (GBKbO)
------------------

Trump is going to blow up CAFE. We will be able to purchase $15,000 Toyota pickups from Mexico. And other fun deals.
It will turn the Govt/Auto Cartel on its head.

Posted by: Braenyard at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (5WOkT)

517 I don't care about pollution
I'm an air conditioned gypsy
That's my solution
Watch the police and the tax man miss me

Posted by: Oglebay at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (ogTiX)

518 Nova Local. Burghum spent his own millions on his campaign and he is allowed to do that. PDT spent millions of his own money in 2020 on his campaign. Both of them could also use donations. PDT may be using only campaign donations this time around, don't know and don't know how to check that. Both options are allowed. What I do know is that PDT has spent millions on his legal defense fighting bullshit law suits. If people want to donate to his campaign it's their right and it's his option on where that money is spent. I'm guessing that 2024 is a bit different due to the law suits.
Could you provide a few links to what has been spent on his current campaign?

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (2NHgQ)

519 The cost of a vehicle is depreciation and maintenance. And if there’s a loan, the interest. That’s how accounting works.

But you do you.
Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:05 PM (YofvK)

Oh, so it is more complicated than just having something like a car and claiming it makes you rich. I wish you had said that to begin with instead of coming over all top-lofty like a whale.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 22, 2024 12:17 PM (D7oie)

520 A diesel that has a properly functioning glow plug system will start just fine. Modern dieself (Duramaxes, Cummins, Powerstrokes) don't even use glow plugs - they use something called a grid heater.

My 22 year old diesel cranks up just fine in very cold temps. As long as the diesel isn't solidified (thats an actual problem) the glow plugs can get it running.
Posted by: Defenestratus
--------
I drove diesels back in the day for mostly for work and interesting to hear about grid heaters new tech. That being said, cold snaps, using the engine heater takes pressure off teh batteries and lessens the necessity to grind on the starter. Dunno about the grid heater system types as my diesel experiences stop with the early 2000's both personal and work on big iron construction equipment.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 12:18 PM (ZcPYF)

521 Ace NOOD

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 22, 2024 12:18 PM (f79f5)

522 Who claimed a car makes you rich? lol.
Like I said, you do you.

Posted by: Montec at January 22, 2024 12:18 PM (YofvK)

523 479 I actually felt sorry for Bills fans last night. Right after the game they showed a grown man in the stands bawling his eyes out. No shame. It was a pathetic sight….. but wide right again?!
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (1jdMT)

No Shame?

His father should have been beating the living shit out of him, screaming "I'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT, YOU PANSY-ASS PISSBABY!!!"

Posted by: XTC at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (sm6Pk)

524 29 -- Gourmand: the XO and I got through most of the '70s and '80s with VDubs. I gave him a copy of the book The VDub Bible, and he was able to do all the maintenance by himself. If one was beyond hope, we just went out and bought another ten year old one.

One night, in a dark parking lot, I was scared out of my mind by these two guys stalking me. I hopped into the van, locked all the doors, and hoped for the best. Turned out they were VW collectors and really, really wanted to buy my split window Vanagon. Evidently, split window Vanagons were few and far apart by that time.

Any one ever get stalked by collectors of their Pintos?

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I stand with Israel and all Jews everywhere at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (6TzTY)

525 Seeing you talk about the old Pinto reminded me of this old chestnut:

Have you driven a Ford lately?

And did you live to tell about it?

Also: FORD = Found on Road, Dead.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (wtvvX)

526 I don't think that's right. I've rented cars on ski trips where they sat overnight in -27 weather. Yes, negative 27. They started up the next day. Oil doesn't "freeze" like water. It just loses the "oily" viscosity until it warms up.
Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 11:58 AM (iFTx/)

Modern oils can stay reasonably fluid at much colder temperatures than did oils of even only 15 years ago. 0W-30 is the norm, now.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (tkR6S)

527 How is that not a criminal conspiracy (importing illegal aliens)?

Posted by: What's the difference between them and other traffickers? at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (L81HX)

528 Question -- for someone who has never read The Bible and is beginning to attend church, is there a particular one you would recommend reading? (Yes, this may be a dumb, dumb, stupid question)

It's not a dumb question and it's wonderful you are attending church. God bless you. Catholics seem to like the Catholic study Bible. If you're not attending a RCC I find that the Life Application Bible-NRSV is very helpful and my suggestion is to start with the Gospel of John.. There are also suggestion of online about how to read the Bible for the first time.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 22, 2024 12:19 PM (Ki//m)

529 >>What did he spend in 2020? And what did he spend for J6ers? Personally.

What did you spend on J6ers? What did Youngkin or Ron? He has no more responsibility for the government going after people on J6 that anyone else.

Trump didn't cause the J6 stuff and according to Bill Shipley, one of the lawyers actually defending J6ers, Trump has contributed to their defense.

Posted by: JackStraw at January 22, 2024 12:20 PM (ZLI7S)

530 I love this analysis. I think you could apply it to what my town and State (Massachusetts) is doing with fossil fuels. Starting this year, no new construction (or major renovation) in my town of a home can be done with gas or oil heating. It has to be all electric. No competition and heat pumps subsidized by government with rebates. I think Massachusetts is moving to get rid of all natural gas in a decade or something like that. I don't think they realize what they are walking into. But they are good people so that's all they need to know. That and heavy gaslighting (pun!) about the evidence this needs to be done.

Posted by: Lex at January 22, 2024 12:21 PM (fMN7A)

531 Nood ace illegals & GWB

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 22, 2024 12:21 PM (J2vNu)

532 489 467 The Aztek looks like it was designed by a high school kid in shop class.
Posted by: Minnfidel

Kinda like the Tesla pick up.
Posted by: rickb223 at January 22, 2024 12:11 PM (SbJgO)

I knew the Aztek was bad when my mother said she thought it was kinda cute. S
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 22, 2024 12:14 PM (i9ffA)
_______

The Aztek concept car was cool. Probably could not have been built. But regardless, GM took the concept and butt-fucked it, shat on it, ran over it with a front-loader, set it on fire, and then pissed on it to put the fire out. The result was the production Aztek.

Although oddly, what the Aztek was -- a small, deliberately cutesy somewhat car-y, somewhat SUV-y vehicle -- was ahead of its time. That type of vehicle is a large part of the vehicle market today.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 12:21 PM (iFTx/)

533 Although oddly, what the Aztek was -- a small, deliberately cutesy somewhat car-y, somewhat SUV-y vehicle -- was ahead of its time. That type of vehicle is a large part of the vehicle market today.

Posted by: Elric Blade at January 22, 2024 12:21 PM (iFTx/)

The problem was GM insisted on developing it on their minvan chassis. The hardpoints were all wrong but there was little they could do about it.

Posted by: Jeff Weimer at January 22, 2024 12:24 PM (f6YJh)

534 I just rented at Hertz. When I was dropping my gasoline car off, I asked the person dropping off a Tesla in front of me how it was. They said, the part that sucked is you had to bring it back 70% charged.

Electric vehicle car rental is a terrible business model since you need lots of room to charge your fleet in between uses even though you save on maintenance costs. Tire costs are higher as well.

Hertz getting out is more due to a crappy business model due to logistics than anything else.

Posted by: jeff at January 22, 2024 12:25 PM (ZiwLX)

535 "14 How do EVs do in extreme heat? I know my cell phone won't charge in high heat"

The BMS will shut the battery down if it is too hot or too cold.

And my power tool batteries won't charge if they get too hot. Even they have a BMS. Also the tool will stop working when the battery is too hot.

Posted by: Don at January 22, 2024 12:28 PM (2GPfT)

536 Could you provide a few links to what has been spent on his current campaign?
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine
-------
Pretty funny about the gross overspending by DeSantis and Nikki in Iowa compared to Trump. Haley spent 37 million on ads to come in third, DeSantis spent nearly that for second, 34 million or so. Trump spent about 18 million. The rest of the GOPe clown show spent a total of 33 million to get nothing.

Overall ad spending was over 1000 per voter.

Posted by: whig at January 22, 2024 12:28 PM (ZcPYF)

537 Why can't the US companies make a reliable car? I mean, breaking down with 3000 miles on it?

Ridiculous.

Posted by: PJ at January 22, 2024 12:29 PM (G1dq6)

538 "Hertz getting out is more due to a crappy business model due to logistics than anything else."

There is the depreciation issue. Rental companies need something that retains resale value, and they sell the cars after a short time.

Posted by: Don at January 22, 2024 12:31 PM (2GPfT)

539 A diesel that has a properly functioning glow plug system will start just fine. Modern dieself (Duramaxes, Cummins, Powerstrokes) don't even use glow plugs - they use something called a grid heater.

My 22 year old diesel cranks up just fine in very cold temps. As long as the diesel isn't solidified (thats an actual problem) the glow plugs can get it running.
Posted by: Defenestratus at January 22, 2024 12:13 PM (8gEf6)

A block heater definitely helps, though. Saves wear and tear on the engine. Just because you can start it without the block heater doesn't mean you should.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 22, 2024 12:34 PM (tkR6S)

540 Remember how ABC News (I think) got in trouble for doing the same thing with Chevy trucks where they side impacted and 'helped' ignite the fuel?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 22, 2024 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

NBC.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at January 22, 2024 12:58 PM (iODuv)

541 Why can't the US companies make a reliable car? I mean, breaking down with 3000 miles on it?

Ridiculous.
Posted by: PJ at January 22, 2024 12:29 PM (G1dq6)

My 06 Mustang GT has 369,000 miles on it. No breakdowns. Oil/filter change every 3000 miles (do it myself), and consumable items such as tires, brake pads (do that myself as well). 3 batteries. Not bad.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at January 22, 2024 01:09 PM (iODuv)

542 The Wall Street Journal is still all-in on EVs for some reason. They just ran a column by a guy who says don't listen to the naysayers; they will work and save energy yada yada yada.

Posted by: Bud Norton at January 22, 2024 01:31 PM (6cOMd)

543 I will make some testable predictions here:

Tesla sales will not be significantly affected by the news story out of Chicago. It's not any kind of "Pinto moment".

Tesla will continue its amazing growth.

If all subsidies on EVs were cancelled the EV market would continue to grow. More slowly, for a while... cost has an effect on demand.

The Chinese EV makers don't care what the US car dealers are doing. Chinese EVs are going to be a tidal wave and any US car maker that can't make competitive EVs is in for a world of hurt.

Within five years max, brand-new EVs will be available for under $25K even if all EV subsidiesare cancelled.

Believe me, or don't, but wait and see if I am correct.

Posted by: mr_jack at January 22, 2024 01:37 PM (LNPSJ)

544 I don't get why they bypassed hybrids. It has some of the same downsides, especially about the battery replacement, but it also runs fine on gas. I have one to offset the high cost of fueling my truck, and i think it's great so far.

Posted by: patg00 at January 22, 2024 02:07 PM (gGa0X)

545 EVs are really nothing but boutique, status vehicles. Great if you can afford one AND the actual working ICE vehicle that really provides the vast majority of your transportation needs. It's like owning a classic car that you wheel out for local car shows and on nice sunny days to go for a brief drive and show it off.

Posted by: Syracuse1989 at January 22, 2024 02:13 PM (exm8+)

546 Toyota has argued for the last ten years that the proper solution was plug in hybrids. 90% emission reduction with zero compromises.

Posted by: Garbled memo at January 22, 2024 02:33 PM (8E/8X)

547 ICE sales will NOT stop, no matter what CA says.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 22, 2024 11:09 AM

New ICE sales will stop, because new ICE production has already been stopped. Because EPA regulations (emissions and fuel economy) that start in 2025 cannot be met by ICE vehicles. Which is by design by the politicians who wrote the EPA regulations and the penalties for not meeting the regulations.

The penalty for not meeting the fuel economy standards is a fine per every .1mpg over the standard for every vehicle in the fleet. The penalty for not meeting the emissions standards is a ban on selling any vehicles.

Since development of vehicles is 3-5 years ahead of Job 1, to meet 2025 standards, all vehicles in development and production since 2021 have been EVs.

So unless the EPA standards are scrapped with a new Administration in January of 2025, there will be no more new ICE vehicles in production or sold going forward. Best anyone can do is get an old used ICE vehicle.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at January 22, 2024 02:34 PM (UKWFA)

548 EVs are just less convenient than gas in every way. If a gas car and an EV are sitting on a lot together, all things being equal, you would never choose the EV. The gasser is just so much more easier. EVs aren't going to happen unless we run out of gas or the government outlaws ICEs.

Posted by: DFCtomm at January 22, 2024 02:52 PM (50VAR)

549 Went into a Hertz location after making a "we pick" reservation, which means that they give you a car they have and you don't get to object.

The only "car" the location had was an EV. I planned on doing a lot of driving and had no time to waste hours on charging. I canceled the reservation. Thank goodness I didn't pay ahead. The location proudly and in-my-face *bragged* that they anticipated Hertz being ALL-electric within three years (words fail).

Two months later, Hertz is unloading 1/3 of its EVs. L-O-bleeping-L.

My experience of Hertz trying to force people who didn't select a specific car in advance into renting EVs probably wasn't unusual. Hertz should be unloading 100% of its electric fleet. I would guess that millions/billions in US government subsidies motivated the stupid decision to get them in the first place.

Posted by: Stealthy LOL at January 22, 2024 03:00 PM (u9YH3)

550 EVs aren't going to happen unless we run out of gas or the government outlaws ICEs.

Posted by: DFCtomm at January 22, 2024 02:52 PM

The government has already outlawed ICE vehicles through the EPA standards that automakers have to meet. The standards that go into effect in 2025 were set by Obama such that ICE vehicles could never meet them.

Trump had halted those standards (which were on pace to increase from the Obama Administration through to 2025 and beyond) during his Administration from January 2017 to January 2021. But when the Marxist Left rigged and stole the election and installed Biden, they put all the Obama-era regulations back in place and the 2025 plan back in effect. It was then in 2021 that every Big3 automaker set in motion the WEF electrification agenda for their product plans.

Which effectively outlawed new ICE vehicle production in USA.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at January 22, 2024 03:24 PM (UKWFA)

551 EVs aren't going to happen unless we run out of gas or the government outlaws ICEs.

Posted by: DFCtomm at January 22, 2024 02:52 PM

I should also note that EVs are not meant to happen. Because no one is building an energy or charging infrastructure to support 100% EV ownership. Because that has never been the goal.

The goal is, and always has been, for people to own nothing and be happy. Which means not owning a home, not owning a vehicle, not travelling anywhere except within one's 15-minute city. Look to China for what the WEF and Deep State have been pushing for every Western nation in the world.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at January 22, 2024 03:29 PM (UKWFA)

552 Mandating EV's is typical of the Liberal Left Its time t o put the Politicians UN and Hollywood Greens on EV,s Only just imagine a whole lot of EV's parked under the UN Facility all recharging then comes the Fire

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo at January 22, 2024 04:21 PM (wGqjj)

553 Keep dreaming.
EV's are growing at 30% per year. And Tesla has the biggest lead.

Posted by: JoeNYC at January 22, 2024 05:30 PM (c2xeu)

554 Agree 100% with this. Look at the data.

543 I will make some testable predictions here:

Tesla sales will not be significantly affected by the news story out of Chicago. It's not any kind of "Pinto moment".

Tesla will continue its amazing growth.

If all subsidies on EVs were cancelled the EV market would continue to grow. More slowly, for a while... cost has an effect on demand.

The Chinese EV makers don't care what the US car dealers are doing. Chinese EVs are going to be a tidal wave and any US car maker that can't make competitive EVs is in for a world of hurt.

Within five years max, brand-new EVs will be available for under $25K even if all EV subsidiesare cancelled.

Believe me, or don't, but wait and see if I am correct.

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