Support




Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
Powered by
Movable Type





THE MORNING RANT: Conservative, Inc. and The Conservative Case for Removing Statues of Our Founding Fathers

The statue of Thomas Jefferson was just removed from New York’s City Hall. This was inevitable, with America’s left now comfortable in its spitting hatred of the United States’ heritage.

“Thomas Jefferson statue removed from City Hall after 187 years” [NY Post – 11/23/2021]

Keri Butler, executive director of the Public Design Commission that voted to banish the statue, at first tried to block the press from witnessing its removal. Butler relented after members of the mayor’s office and City Council intervened.
The commission also attempted to vote on the statue’s removal without a public hearing on the controversial move until The Post revealed the plan.

This was also enabled by the polite conservatives of Conservative, Inc. who cheered on the initial rounds of statue removal a couple years ago.

Rando Jefferson statue NYC.JPG


Rich Lowry of National Review was a pom-pom waving fanboy of the left’s statue removal agenda in 2020.

National Review - Lowry - Statues.JPG


Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.

Lowry was also trying to get a dig in at Trump.

For his part, President Donald Trump has been a steadfast defender of the statues and other forms of recognition of the Confederacy. He has come out in favor of preserving the names of military bases named after Confederate generals and pointedly said that we should build on our heritage rather than tear it down.

Conservatives tend to think the same way. They reflexively oppose politically correct campaigns to destroy anything giving offense. They fear where the slippery slope of woke iconoclasm will lead — first it’s Jefferson Davis, ultimately George Washington.

We conservatives feared the slippery slope because we knew it was inevitable. To be fair, I suspect that Mr. Lowry also knew it was inevitable that statues of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln would be torn down soon thereafter. His role in the faux-conservative movement is to ease conservatives into polite surrender to the left’s agenda.

Rando Lowry.JPG

There is nothing before 2008 (Obama’s election) that the left doesn’t despise about this country. It’s not stopping with monuments of the founding fathers either. The Flag, the National Anthem, patriotism, and the Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) will all be targeted by the left, and there will be plenty of surrender-cons like Rich Lowry to explain the conservative case for each incremental erosion of our heritage, our liberty, and our national identity.

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:00 AM (Zz0t1)

2 SPONGE!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (PiwSw)

3 st?!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (d04cU)

4 /plants flag

Posted by: Brother Tim sez Max Headroom for President! at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (OUMaO)

5 Drat

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (d04cU)

6 Rich Lowry is a fag and his shit's all retarded.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (Zz0t1)

7 Damn, I'm slow.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez Max Headroom for President! at December 01, 2023 11:01 AM (OUMaO)

8 Useless assholes trolling for adulation for being 'one of the good ones' from the people who would make Stalin blush.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:02 AM (zZu0s)

9 Next: remove the tomb of the unknown soldier.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (Snu1j)

10 I loathe the Confederacy. I also loathe the removal of their statues.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (JrojV)

11 Maybe rather than bemoan the loss of these things we do something to stop it?

"We" being normal people, not just those on this here blog.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (Q4IgG)

12 The statue of Thomas Jefferson was just removed from New York’s City Hall.

OK, now do Mt Rushmore. Erase that other slave owner while you are there.

Posted by: Next2Nothing at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (tA1/w)

13 Next: remove the tomb of the unknown soldier.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (Snu1j)

They'd love to.

Posted by: BignJames at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (AwYPR)

14 Thomas Jefferson is gone, next the document he mostly wrote will be next

Posted by: Skip at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (g7VdI)

15 We conservatives feared the slippery slope because we knew it was inevitable. To be fair, I suspect that Mr. Lowry also knew it was inevitable that statues of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln would be torn down soon thereafter. His role in the faux-conservative movement is to ease conservatives into polite surrender to the left’s agenda.
++++
If you have a spot of history and culture in your educational background, you know where this leads.

After conquering, the first thing the invaders (or revolutionaries) do is tear down the statues and symbols. When the USSR failed, the statues of Stalin and Lenin came down toot sweet. When we conquered Iraq, the statues of Hussein came down promptly. When the Muslims - the closest in spirit to the contemporary Left - take over, they raze *every* cultural artifact within reach.

We've been conquered, and so the statues are coming down. ConInc knows it, they're just a version of the Vichy regime.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (d04cU)

16 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation,



Please point to the place in the Constitution that says it's illegal to secede.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 01, 2023 11:05 AM (p8cAR)

17 Are there any Union soldier / leader statues?


We should start demanding those get torn down as well. I mean, full f*cking Monty. You want to erase history?

Erase all the histories. The world didn't f*cking exist till today.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:05 AM (Zz0t1)

18 Who's Thomas Jefferson?

Posted by: Hillcrest High School Class of 2023 at December 01, 2023 11:05 AM (PiwSw)

19 When will they be getting rid of Grant's tomb? He was a Republican, too, after all. And white. And from the Bad Era.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (d04cU)

20 Rich Lowery? Who dat?

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg, Ace Plagiarist at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (Lj2Cc)

21 This reminds me of the question I pose to my military friends, active and retired (but being 29, mostly retired.) Burning the flag, taking down statues, graffiti on monuments, all that is one thing, but our oath is to support and defend the Constitution. So, when the lefties start spiting on, trampling on, and burning copies of the Constitution, what will you do?
I ask them, because this day is coming.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (uSHSS)

22 "When in the course of human events...."

Posted by: Doof at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (+cH+C)

23 The Charlottesville fiasco (PsyOp to establish the "conservatives are white supremacists" meme) attracted a lot of the general public who thought it was about conserving the RE Lee stature. That was transformed into KKK versus America by the media, though only the "save the statue" group had a permit to meet, not the Antifa goons.

RE Lee in Lee Circle in New Orleans was also a key removal, hated by much of New Orleans. I don't think they melted that one down though.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (Cus5s)

24 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.

------------

Now do the American Revolutionary War, Lowry.

Asshat.

Posted by: ShainS -- CISA Cognitive Security Agent at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (QuOAU)

25 It's disgusting that so many on the "Right" (like the idiots at NR) pretended to accept what the MSM was saying and never said what the statue removal was really about. It wasn't about "racism" or "white supremacy" or even the Confederacy - it was about destroying the Consensus about the aftermath of the Civil War that had been in place for 140 years. And that was the idea that both sides fought hard for what they believed, one side won, one side lost, and the best way forward as a nation was to re-integrate and accept all the blood spilled as the full price to be paid.

It was viciously manipulative and wicked to try and refight the aftermath of a war that had been over for 140 years.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (i9ffA)

26 hiya

Posted by: JT at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (T4tVD)

27 Good morning everyone.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (+5YjI)

28 I loathe the Confederacy. I also loathe the removal of their statues.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (JrojV)



I don't. I loathe slavery, sure. I admire them for willing to die for the fighting against government overreach.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (Zz0t1)

29 Lowry just being oh so reasonable. Lots of that going around.

Posted by: DOYLE at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (Z8Yh2)

30 Next year will be lit.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (R4t5M)

31
Those engaged in statue removal are just the advance soldiers for the Caliphate.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (enJYY)

32 Let's not forget the "conservative choice of GOPe" Nikkiii Haley was the first to embolden them.

Oh, all the racial healing and goodwill toward all, with forgiveness and tolerance for all that she delivered as promised by removing the Confederate flag from the state Capitol!

That was all they wanted and no more, just removing that newly-discovered symbol of hate.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (TzW+Y)

33 it was about destroying the Consensus about the aftermath of the Civil War that had been in place for 140 years. And that was the idea that both sides fought hard for what they believed, one side won, one side lost, and the best way forward as a nation was to re-integrate and accept all the blood spilled as the full price to be paid.


Yes. Well said.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:08 AM (JrojV)

34 We should start demanding those get torn down as well. I mean, full f*cking Monty. You want to erase history?

Erase all the histories. The world didn't f*cking exist till today.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:05 AM (Zz0t1)

A lot of societies have gone through waves of Iconoclasm that erased much of their history. The Muslims are the worst; they've put out a concerted effort in every country they've conquered to erase the history of anything that came before them.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:08 AM (i9ffA)

35 I do enjoy a good dunking on 'ol Rich Lowery... thank you.

Posted by: Inogame at December 01, 2023 11:08 AM (53oGX)

36 The slippery slope argument is undefeated since at least 2000.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (2ocoG)

37 >Secession was a traitorous act


>>it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security


so which one is right

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (geLO8)

38 "Blind dedication to the nation is bad. Blind dedication to the party is good."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (GBKbO)

39 Looks like war might be flaring up...again. Headed to the garage for a coffee/khalua and a smoke. Hold your positions.

Posted by: BignJames at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (AwYPR)

40 I don't. I loathe slavery, sure. I admire them for willing to die for the fighting against government overreach.
Posted by: Sponge

In my area, the CSA and USA are given equal honors at the Courthouse Memorial. The KIA are roughly equal too. Some of the same surnames are on both memorials. Brothers or cousins at least.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (+5YjI)

41 I admire them for willing to die for the fighting against government overreach.
Posted by: Sponge


What overreach? They were pissed because they didn't like the outcome of an election.

And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (JrojV)

42 Yankees, can't live with them, can't live - wait, we can live without them! Time to ponder.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (C4/Hz)

43 I used to travel on Lee hwy in VA quite a bit. It no longer exists. When are they going to tear down his house at Arlington?

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (ZV+pB)

44 "Blind dedication to the nation is bad. Blind dedication to the party is good."
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (GBKbO)
++++
All within the Party, nothing outside the Party, nothing against the Party.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (d04cU)

45 15
When the Muslims - the closest in spirit to the contemporary Left - take over, they raze *every* cultural artifact within reach.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (d04cU)
----
You mean Talibalization, where statues, paintings and other cultural riches will be actually destroyed, not merely put into storage.

Posted by: Ciampino -- Golfers always carry an extra pair of socks in case they get a hole in one at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (qfLjt)

46 13 Next: remove the tomb of the unknown soldier.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in solidarity with the struggle to maintain Moron standards at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (Snu1j)

They'd love to.

The Confederate monument in Arlington is being removed. Lloyd Austin decided "Fuck what the public thinks, get rid of it."

Posted by: Stacy0311 at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (HvIu2)

47 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.

-
I posted this the other day but I think it is interesting and moving. Confederate General James Longstreet visits Gettysburg 25 years later. (6 minutes)

https://youtu.be/fw85GoSsHYc

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (FVME7)

48 Those who erase history are DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

The left is f*cking stupid. I will forgive them for what they've done, only on my deathbed because I HAVE to as I believe in Christ and he compels me to forgive those that have wronged.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)

49 $10 says this becomes a Civil War thread

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (geLO8)

50 You mean Talibalization, where statues, paintings and other cultural riches will be actually destroyed, not merely put into storage.
Posted by: Ciampino -- Golfers always carry an extra pair of socks in case they get a hole in one at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (qfLjt)
++++
The Taliban takes it further than most, but it's a common theme.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (d04cU)

51 "And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over."

Yeah, thats it. Sigh.

Posted by: DOYLE at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (Z8Yh2)

52
And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (JrojV)



Slavery wasn't the only reason.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (Zz0t1)

53 Who's Thomas Jefferson?


He owned a chain of dry cleaners in NYC. Married to Weezy.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (JrojV)

54 I used to travel on Lee hwy in VA quite a bit. It no longer exists. When are they going to tear down his house at Arlington?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report

There's going to be a "fire".

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (R4t5M)

55 Those who erase history are DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

Which is exactly why both the left and Islam want to erase history.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (2ocoG)

56 37 >Secession was a traitorous act
----------------
>>it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security
--------------------
so which one is right
-----------------
You are allowed to kill your wife to preserve the union. Achmed Lincoln.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (C4/Hz)

57 49 $10 says this becomes a Civil War thread
Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (geLO

=======

Bet came in too late. It already started.

All we're accepting now is:
Over/under on comment when it becomes a movie thread. and
Whether Sid or Paul appears first.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (GBKbO)

58 43 I used to travel on Lee hwy in VA quite a bit. It no longer exists. When are they going to tear down his house at Arlington?
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (ZV+pB)

I'm sure they'll sell it to someone like Obama as being somehow 'just.'

I wish that was more outlandish...

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (zZu0s)

59 And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (JrojV)


Slavery wasn't the only reason.


It was the main reason.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (JrojV)

60 28 I loathe the Confederacy. I also loathe the removal of their statues.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:03 AM (JrojV)


I don't. I loathe slavery, sure. I admire them for willing to die for the fighting against government overreach.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (Zz0t1)

Secession occurred before they were governed by not-Democrats. Their declarations of causes centered around slavery.

There aren't oither immediate grievances to point to at the onset of the war because the Democrats had been the dominant party of the country, with the Whigs defunct and the Rs a new party on the block.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (eYoxG)

61 Those who erase history are DOOMED TO REPEAT IT. ...
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)
++++
Those who erase history are clearing the path in order to more easily repeat it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (d04cU)

62 A farmer sees a beaver gnawing at a tree, and goes to tell him to stop. The beaver says "Let me have fifty bites, that is reasonable." The farmer says no. They argue for a while. Eventually the farmer counter offers with one bite. The beaver says thirty. They settle on five.

The beaver will come back later and negotiate again. He does not like the taste of wood, but he loves felling trees.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (44ww/)

63 The masthead over the doors at Conservative, Inc., is "Today, we're one more surrender away from victory!"

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (TzW+Y)

64 You mean Talibalization, where statues, paintings and other cultural riches will be actually destroyed, not merely put into storage.

The Left is there too. There was just a story a few weeks ago where they're melting down Confederate monuments to make statues of transgenders.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:13 AM (2ocoG)

65 At my job, our "Christmas" tree in the front lobby of the hospital this year is a 6' fake birch tree that is lighted. It isn't called a Christmas tree, or even angel tree...just a giving tree. Names of needy Veterans kids are placed on the tree every year with their Christmas wish for a toy or clothes. Every year employees, including myself, will take a name or several and buy the wished for gifts for the kids and then are distributed. This is the first year that it isn't an actual Christmas tree.

Directly across from this fake birch is an actual Christmas tree beautifully decorated in red, white, and blue with American flags at the top and was set up by the local VFW. They were instructed to put a sign by the tree saying that this was donated by the VFW. I guess so the VA doesn't have to take responsibility for this Christian holiday tree.

This makes me sick. Sick enough that it would be a shame if the local press got wind of this.

Posted by: Cheri at December 01, 2023 11:13 AM (oiNtH)

66 The Tragedy of the Confederacy is that they were legally and constitutionally correct, but morally wrong. The war they started utterly destroyed the version of the US that the framers had envisioned; the Government we have now is the Federal structure created by Lincoln to fight and win that war, given an international direction by Wilson, and vastly expanded by FDR. Now we have a behemoth that is far more oppressive than anything our founders faced in 1776.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:13 AM (i9ffA)

67 Santos expelled from Congress

They couldnt have waited a few more months for him to leave?

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Blackpilled and Longing for Zooey Deschanel's Bosom at December 01, 2023 11:13 AM (VTu1l)

68 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.

I would argue that, if the people who FOUGHT the war accepted the statues... and they did, bed wetting jackasses like Rich Lowry should accept that.

I can think of lots of former Presidents who have been shown to have been, at best, pond scum, who are memorialized. I do not favor removing these honors.

First we hide the past, then we forget the past, then we repeat the past.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (1Z8zZ)

69
It was the main reason.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (JrojV)



Admitting your comment was incorrect. Slavery was A reason.....not THE reason.

Stop it.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (Zz0t1)

70 66 The Tragedy of the Confederacy is that they were legally and constitutionally correct, but morally wrong. The war they started utterly destroyed the version of the US that the framers had envisioned; the Government we have now is the Federal structure created by Lincoln to fight and win that war, given an international direction by Wilson, and vastly expanded by FDR. Now we have a behemoth that is far more oppressive than anything our founders faced in 1776.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:13 AM (i9ffA)

========

Let's not forget Hayes signing the civil reform law that created the "unbiased, professional" bureaucracy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (GBKbO)

71 Slavery wasn't the only reason.
-------------
Yep. A Federated System requires States. Some people are very impatient and want to kill others. Wonder where that comes from?

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (C4/Hz)

72 Jahr Null is here.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (aD39U)

73 Jefferson had to go to make room for installation of a new statute, all gold and 90 feet tall, representing "Hope & (Can You Spare Any) Change."

Posted by: Ju at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (aTmM/)

74 The Tragedy of the Confederacy is that they were legally and constitutionally correct

Bullshit.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (JrojV)

75 When will they be getting rid of Grant's tomb? He was a Republican, too, after all. And white. And from the Bad Era.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (d04cU)

----------

Looking forward to every place with Washington in the name being appropriately renamed as Obamavilles.

Posted by: ShainS -- CISA Cognitive Security Agent at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (QuOAU)

76 There's going to be a "fire".

Yup. Interestingly the fires at major food facilities stopped when a lot of people started connecting the dots.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:14 AM (2ocoG)

77 37 >Secession was a traitorous act


>>it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security


so which one is right
Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:09 AM (geLO

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate, that governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient causes" -Declaration of Independence

What are the grievances? What is the issue that they were hoping to resolve? Threats to slavery and the corresponding threat to the South's ruling class.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:15 AM (eYoxG)

78 What’s the problem? SWEEP AWAY ALL MONSTERS AND DEMONS!!!

DEATH TO THE FOUR OLDS!!!

Posted by: CPC at December 01, 2023 11:15 AM (BRJFo)

79 go all in NY: replace it with a George floyd statue

Posted by: brak at December 01, 2023 11:15 AM (AR07F)

80 taking down statues is wrong, IMO

when you remove a statue, you are saying 'that part of history never happened'

we can't deny our history- we should examine it and learn from it, and carry on

not pretending that taking down a statue changes the historical record

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (geLO8)

81
Santos expelled from Congress

That sucks. They should have had a slow motion, never ending 'inquiry' into whether to expel him or not.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (enJYY)

82 Spent a good deal of time in Richmond when the kid was doing bolc at fort Lee. Glad we got to see the history because a lot of it is gone now. Wondering how long privately owned monuments/places will survive.

Posted by: nckate at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (SnxUt)

83 Next: remove the tomb of the unknown soldier.

-
Well, OK so long as you don't touch the celebrity footprints at Grauman's Chinese Theater.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (FVME7)

84 66 The Tragedy of the Confederacy is that they were legally and constitutionally correct, but morally wrong.
---------------
Morally wrong would imply the Bible is immoral. No where in the Bible is slavery a sin. Economic status is not a sin. Its economic status. Reread some Bible. Duh. Yankees are always in a Purity Spiral. Always.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (C4/Hz)

85 " and the best way forward as a nation was to re-integrate and accept all the blood spilled as the full price to be paid."

Lincoln (allegedly) thought long and hard about what to do with the freed slaves. Returning them to Africa was considered. In the long run, that would perhaps have been better?

Instead many were put in camps where they died ... not real sure on the numbers, but blacks mostly improved (as a whole) until LBJ "put them back in chains" of handouts and government programs. (I'll have those n**s voting Dem for 200 years .. lbj).

When the initially won public office they were Repub's. Until LBJs Great Society, the black fathers were mostly at home with their kids.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (Cus5s)

86 Rich Lowry is a Kansas City faggot.

Posted by: He could be from Kansas City. Who knows. at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (r/JV0)

87 That sucks. They should have had a slow motion, never ending 'inquiry' into whether to expel him or not.

As I said yesterday, if the GOP were a functional party that's pretty much what would happen, because that's exactly what the Democrats would do in the same situation.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (2ocoG)

88 52
And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:10 AM (JrojV)


Slavery wasn't the only reason.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (Zz0t1)

It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes.

The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)

89 All presidents from 1 to 43 need to be removed from history. 45 has already been removed from history. The logical endpoint.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (lTGtQ)

90 30 Next year will be lit.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (R4t5M)

No, it won't.

Only one side doesn't have children.

Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (sm6Pk)

91
-
Well, OK so long as you don't touch the celebrity footprints at Grauman's Chinese Theater.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (FVME7)



They removed Trump. Did they remove Weinstein?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (Zz0t1)

92 Secession was a traitorous act


Not if you win.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (uSHSS)

93 Are there any Union soldier / leader statues?


We should start demanding those get torn down as well. I mean, full f*cking Monty. You want to erase history?

Erase all the histories. The world didn't f*cking exist till today.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:05 AM (Zz0t1)

That's their goal. BLM and friends defaced a monument to the Buffalo Soldiers.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (nC+QA)

94 There were veterans in 1865 who lost many friends. It was easier for them to forgive than the bugmen puritans of 2023.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (44ww/)

95 We don't need to remember old dead white men. Forward!

Posted by: Nikki Haley at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (vFG9F)

96 The moron republicans in The House just kicked Santos out to reduce their majority...Fuckin Morons

FUCKIN MORONS

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (pVWRI)

97 66 The Tragedy of the Confederacy is that they were legally and constitutionally correct,

They lost. Get over it.

I look forward to seeing posts authored by Confederacy apologists when I land in DC.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (BRJFo)

98 45
Imagine, La Pietá, David, Mona Lisa destroyed and burnt. Hey maybe that fountain in Vienna will be gone - that's one upside.
St. Peter in the Vatican and Il Duomo in Milan will be mosques?

Posted by: Ciampino - Opportunity knocks and you complain about the noise? at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (qfLjt)

99 Slavery wasn't the only reason.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (Zz0t1)


You're wasting your time.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (1Z8zZ)

100 They hate the founding and its constraints on their power. It’s as simple as that. It is not deep or sophisticated thinking to note that slavery is evil but that slaveholder Thomas Jefferson made overall positive and important contributions to government and freedom and for that he should be recognized and remembered.

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (4pZxP)

101 Rep. George Santos expelled from Congress after 311-114 vote

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (RHGPo)

102 75 When will they be getting rid of Grant's tomb? He was a Republican, too, after all. And white. And from the Bad Era.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:06 AM (d04cU)
--------------
He also owned slaves.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (C4/Hz)

103 Instead many were put in camps where they died ... not real sure on the numbers, but blacks mostly improved (as a whole) until LBJ "put them back in chains" of handouts and government programs. (I'll have those n**s voting Dem for 200 years .. lbj).

When the initially won public office they were Repub's. Until LBJs Great Society, the black fathers were mostly at home with their kids.


Yup. Blacks were projected to be solidly middle class by ~1980 and that trend line died with the Great Society.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (2ocoG)

104 >Posted by: Red Turban Someguy -


hey I'm just throwing fuel on the fire for no apparent reason
I'm no historian

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (geLO8)

105
It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes.

The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)



So, my statement wasn't wrong, you're just putting forth things to make me feel like I'm wrong for some reason because...........

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (Zz0t1)

106 @67

>>Santos expelled from Congress

Fun Fact: George Santos had a more conservative voting record than that bow tied hump ProTempore Speaker from North Carolina.

Imagine that, a Gay Republican from Queens was more conservative than a Republican from the south.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (XV/Pl)

107 Boobs

In case you Morons get to busy with the other fights.

Posted by: DaveA at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (FhXTo)

108 I'm not saying that Rich Lowry is a cocksucker, but I've got a crisp $20 that says he's had a penis in or around his mouth before.

Posted by: ballistic at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (oqH4h)

109 There is no difference between tearing down statues of our founding fathers or military heroes than the taliban blowing up religious icons. None. The same thought process is involved - remove history and replace it with a lie.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (lTGtQ)

110
FUCKIN MORONS

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM


Don't hold back NGU. Something tells me you're holding back.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (enJYY)

111 What’s the problem? SWEEP AWAY ALL MONSTERS AND DEMONS!!!

DEATH TO THE FOUR OLDS!!!
Posted by: CPC at December 01, 2023 11:15 AM (BRJFo)
++++
The Four Olds is exactly right. The modern "woke" (postmodern, 'cultural marxist,' etc.) shit on the Left is pure Maoism.

For those who don't know, it was a slogan of the Cultural Revolution in Red China. The Four Olds were Old Ideas, Old Culture, Old Customs, and Old Habits. They were, of course, to be replaced by the Four News - new customs, new culture, new habits, new ideas.

Anything old - that is, anything pre-socialist - had to be destroyed and replaced. The "culture war" in China became a war of naked conquest by the Party against the people.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (d04cU)

112 96 The moron republicans in The House just kicked Santos out to reduce their majority...Fuckin Morons

FUCKIN MORONS
---------------
Yep. Nutless Fuckers all the way down.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (C4/Hz)

113 Unrealized Losses At US Banks Exploded In Q3 As US Teeters On Full-blown Recession, Thanks To Bidenomics

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (RHGPo)

114 I'm not saying that Rich Lowry is a cocksucker, but I've got a crisp $20 that says he's had a penis in or around his mouth before.

At the very least he, like Pete Townshend, knows what it's like to be a woman.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (2ocoG)

115 *squirts baby oil all over body*

THERE ARE NO SLIPPERY SLOPES, Conservatards!

*wheeeeeeeeeeee*

Posted by: Democrats at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (mE7cY)

116 Admitting your comment was incorrect. Slavery was A reason.....not THE reason.

Stop it.
Posted by: Sponge -

It was the MAIN reason.

OK, I'm gonna have to get off this thread before I have an aneurism.

Later, all.

Sponge, Puddin, Servo, I love you guys, so that's why i leaving now before I type something I'll regret. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm still opposed to taking down the Confederate statues, though.

Bye.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at December 01, 2023 11:19 AM (JrojV)

117
You're wasting your time.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (1Z8zZ)



Yes....it's why I'll be back later......


🙄

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (Zz0t1)

118 Oh, all the racial healing and goodwill toward all, with forgiveness and tolerance for all that she delivered as promised by removing the Confederate flag from the state Capitol!


She removed the Confederate Flag from the Memorial to the Confederate War Dead on the Capitol grounds, not from the Capitol. That was removed years ago when the Republicans replaced the Democrats as the ruling party in SC.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) reminds you at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (aD39U)

119 There were a lot of tensions being pulled this way and that. Trade (industrialized north vs the agricultural south), Industry, Slavery sure, states rights.

No conflict in life between groups of people, especially something like this, is all one thing or another. We like to think it works like that, but it doesn't.

Boobs.
https://tinyurl.com/4a23vxkz

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (zZu0s)

120 Morning.

So the end result if tearing down history is that history gets torn down. No shit. Who'd have fucking thought?!?

Thanks, National Review!

Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (1Yy3c)

121 So, Star Trek...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (GBKbO)

122 so when is the scheduled demolition of the Washington Monument

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (geLO8)

123 84 No where in the Bible is slavery a sin.
Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:16 AM (C4/Hz)

But apparently being born north of Jawja is.

Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:21 AM (sm6Pk)

124 Imagine that, a Gay Republican from Queens was more conservative than a Republican from the south.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (XV/Pl)
----
Keep following this trail of crumbs and you'll come to understand why they expelled him.

Posted by: ballistic at December 01, 2023 11:21 AM (oqH4h)

125 What overreach? They were pissed because they didn't like the outcome of an election.

And slavery was a shitty cause to attempt to break up the country over.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus


NC voted against secession first. Voted again, but for, when ordered to march on SC.

Posted by: Oedipus at December 01, 2023 11:21 AM (Z6vKV)

126 so when is the scheduled demolition of the Washington Monument

They're going to re-sculpt it so it's a scale model of Big Mike's wang.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:21 AM (2ocoG)

127 105
It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes.

The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)


So, my statement wasn't wrong, you're just putting forth things to make me feel like I'm wrong for some reason because...........
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (Zz0t1)

Your statement that "slavery isn't the only reason" misleads by suggesting some equality in the other things. If slavery wasn't under threat, there's no secession or war.

It is the driving reason, the other stuff amounted to petty squabbling as far as the politicians were concerned.

Your original argument about government overreach makes no sense at all, aside from the Fugitive Slave Law the federal government wasn't particularly invasive.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:21 AM (eYoxG)

128 It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes.
---------------
You must be listening to John Brown - a Fucking Mass Murderer twice over. Now tell me how Imma Evil.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (C4/Hz)

129 Former Fox News pundit Tucker Carlson knows who he’ll be supporting in the 2024 presidential election. “I became an active Trump supporter when they raided Mar-A-Lago last summer,” Carlson said on an episode of Roseanne Barr’s podcast this week. “That can’t stand. And I agree with Trump on a lot, but even if I disagreed with Trump on a lot, I’d still be a Trump supporter because you cannot allow that.”

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (RHGPo)

130 The Taliban takes it further than most, but it's a common theme.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (d04cU)

Try attending Christian worship at the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. For that matter, try finding Constantinople.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (yLuBw)

131 What the left is doing here has absolutely nothing to do with the Civil War. People continually conflate their desire to erase anything they disagree with with historical conflict.

There's nothing remotely 'historical' about what the left is doing here. Other than erasing it to suit their whims.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (Q4IgG)

132 He also owned slaves.
Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (C4/Hz)

I think he had a freed slave as a manservant/butler/PA named... Bill? His wife came from a family of slave owners though.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (zZu0s)

133 If you wiki the term "Barbarian" it's 1st image is of hordes tearing down statues in Rome. All around the world they defaced any statue or Icon, that is why so much of the history of the greeks, romans, and even the Pharoes was lost. What remains is headless or at least with noses smashed off. The great libraries burned, destroyed. In some areas it was based upon the "No Graven Images" aspects of certain religions, in others it was mere destruction of ANYTHING conceived by a more successful society. The left does it today...as does the Taliban and ISIS

Posted by: birddog at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (1E8/t)

134 I think I want a Dixie horn in my truck like the General Lee in The Dukes Of Hazzard.



Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (R/m4+)

135 Anything Democrats support, I'm opposed to.
It's an imperfect reflex but it's right more than its wrong.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (xcxpd)

136 Hamas terrorists branded Israeli children hostages in case they escaped, relative says

.. shades of the Nazi camps

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (RHGPo)

137 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.
---
How many Confederates were tried for treason after the Civil War?

What an awful human this Lowery is, so brave slandering the dead--welcomed back as full brothers and citizens by the people they fought.
But not him, safely 150 years and a world removed! Oh no.

Fucking coward would have been leading draft riots no matter what side of the Mason-Dixon he was on.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (TzW+Y)

138 oh boy this is gonna be great!

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (geLO8)

139 You just know they are going to replace it with some hideous modern are by a black lesbian or yet another statue of MLK or some other mediocre POC.


A lot of this could have been avoided if after the Civil Rights act passed when he left continued howling racism and all that BS decades was instead of conceding the point that "yes there is racism but...." respond with "Too bad. This a is a free country, if you don't like it go somewhere else that is better."

Posted by: Ripley at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (JojsZ)

140
so when is the scheduled demolition of the Washington Monument

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM


Gimme a little time.

Posted by: New Madrid Fault Line at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (enJYY)

141 We knew

Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (QgUWg)

142 121 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (GBKbO)

Lemme guess, you love 'Lower Decks'...

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (zZu0s)

143 Or to be even more specific, if slavery wasn't believed to be essential to the wealth and status of Southern elites, there would have been no war.

The South's economy didn't change that much post-slavery, so arguably they went to war over a misperceived threat.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (eYoxG)

144 The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)


The harm inflicted by the Northern population? The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (1Z8zZ)

145 too

Posted by: DaveA at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (FhXTo)

146 There's nothing remotely 'historical' about what the left is doing here. Other than erasing it to suit their whims.
---------------
Well, Maoism is historical. So is Mau-Mau ism. Collective murder is good.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (C4/Hz)

147 134 I think I want a Dixie horn in my truck like the General Lee in The Dukes Of Hazzard.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (R/m4+)

That and a nice Thomas Jefferson statue in the back would be perfect.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (mE7cY)

148 Sandra Day O'Connor tits up

https://tinyurl.com/yyxuazzj

Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (1Yy3c)

149 136 Hamas terrorists branded Israeli children hostages in case they escaped, relative says

.. shades of the Nazi camps
Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (RHGPo)

If anyone ever asks you if murder is always wrong...

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (zZu0s)

150 Yay, another fight over Lincoln's War to Destroy the Republic.

Posted by: Some folks just love the taste of authoritarian dick at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (r/JV0)

151 57 49 $10 says this becomes a Civil War thread
Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:11 AM (geLO

=======

Bet came in too late. It already started.

All we're accepting now is:
Over/under on comment when it becomes a movie thread. and
Whether Sid or Paul appears first.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (GBKbO)
----
This is also the plaice where we scale it up and go for fish puns.

Posted by: Ciampino - Opportunity knocks and you complain about the noise?! at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (qfLjt)

152 128 It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes.
---------------
You must be listening to John Brown - a Fucking Mass Murderer twice over. Now tell me how Imma Evil.
Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (C4/Hz)

You're not evil. You're either swallowing some rather slanted scholarship uncritically or you're trolling.

Which is fine.

I don't want an echo chamber here any more than it already is.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (xcxpd)

153 Guess who else has endorsed N!KK!? Jen Rubin. lol

Posted by: Chairman LMAO, AI Expert at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (pIx7m)

154 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Why anyone ever left the Holodeck is beyond me.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (+5YjI)

155 The MLK statue in DC looks more chinese than black... I guess the right person made it so it will stay

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (ZV+pB)

156 87 That sucks. They should have had a slow motion, never ending 'inquiry' into whether to expel him or not.

As I said yesterday, if the GOP were a functional party that's pretty much what would happen, because that's exactly what the Democrats would do in the same situation.
Posted by: Ian S. at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (2ocoG)

This is obviously uniparty getting pissy with the base they hate.
This will teach you for not supporting McCarthy.

Posted by: Inogame at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (53oGX)

157 They lost. Get over it.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (BRJFo)


Putting aside who was right and who was wrong in the middle of the nineteenth century, are you happy with the prize you got out of it?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (1Z8zZ)

158 Was Willowed so repost.

"November is over and I failed to note that it was National Adoption Month"

-
We adopted our girls after an involuntary termination of parental rights because bio dad was a criminal* and bio mom a drug addict. (Both girls are now married, up, and gone.) It's a small town so we occasionally run into or hear about bios. Bio mom's latest escapade was stealing her mom's pain killers prescribed because she was dying of cancer.

*Bio dad was a genuine, no question about it, straight up violent white supremacist. He's dead now.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (FVME7)

159 150 Yay, another fight over Lincoln's War to Destroy the Republic.
----------------
He did destroy the First Republic.

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (C4/Hz)

160 the Olds are passing

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (geLO8)

161 All we're accepting now is:
Over/under on comment when it becomes a movie thread. and
Whether Sid or Paul appears first.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (GBKbO)
----
This is also the plaice where we scale it up and go for fish puns.
Posted by: Ciampino - Opportunity knocks and you complain about the noise?! at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (qfLjt)

Talk about a slippery slope...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (xcxpd)

162 154 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Why anyone ever left the Holodeck is beyond me.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (+5YjI)

Gotta hydrate some time TP.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (zZu0s)

163 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Why anyone ever left the Holodeck is beyond me.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (+5YjI)

Wesley Crusher started some ghey shit in there that got stuck on loop.

Posted by: Ruined it for everyone at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (r/JV0)

164 He did destroy the First Republic.
Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (C4/Hz)
++++
Second. The First Republic failed under its own power.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (d04cU)

165 160 the Olds are passing
Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (geLO

The destruction of the past was seen as essential in both Russian communism as well as Chinese.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (zZu0s)

166 157 They lost. Get over it.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (BRJFo)
-----------------
Why have Yankees been fleeing Yankee Land since 1969? What happened to cause such an Exodus?

Posted by: Pudinhead at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (C4/Hz)

167 re: sidebar

Mad Max: Stronk Empowered Woman, Coming Soon

I'm kidding, Fury Road was good fun and this seems like a natural follow-up, but Max got taken out of his own series

Posted by: brak at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (AR07F)

168 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (GBKbO)

Worf's son needed to be shot out of an airlock along with Wesley.

Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (1Yy3c)

169 32 Let's not forget the "conservative choice of GOPe" Nikkiii Haley was the first to embolden them.

Oh, all the racial healing and goodwill toward all, with forgiveness and tolerance for all that she delivered as promised by removing the Confederate flag from the state Capitol!

That was all they wanted and no more, just removing that newly-discovered symbol of hate.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:07 AM (TzW+Y)

THIS.

This is my first - and main - problem with Haley. As a black guy who lives in CT, the Confederate flag meant nothing to me; heck, as a youth I saw the Dukes of Hazzard and laughed along with the rest of America. I thought we moved past the Civil War.

However, if SC wanted to get rid of the flag, they had the right to do that under a regular, deliberative legislative process. That never happened. Blacks moved to the South in droves anyway. Instead, Haley panicked at the first opportunity and rode a wave of emotion to get rid of it, simply to score political points. You can draw a straight line between her folding on that issue and the Summer Of Love in 2020 a few short years after Emmanuel.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (9cfgd)

170 That big tall monument in the District of Corruption is named for a slave owner. Tear it down.

Posted by: Amirite? at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (NBVIP)

171 The reasons the South seceded are laid out in their declarations, if anyone were included to read them.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) reminds you at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (aD39U)

172 >All we're accepting now is:
Over/under on comment when it becomes a movie thread. and
Whether Sid or Paul appears first.
---


I want to see it devolve to a thread about which Civil War movie is most accurate

twofer

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (geLO8)

173 63 The masthead over the doors at Conservative, Inc., is "Today, we're one more surrender away from victory!"

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:12 AM (TzW+Y)
----
Excellent choice for Comment of the Week
(or is it Excellent choice for Comment of the Weak)

Posted by: Ciampino - Opportunity knocks & you complain about the noise?! at December 01, 2023 11:28 AM (qfLjt)

174 157 They lost. Get over it.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 01, 2023 11:18 AM (BRJFo)

Putting aside who was right and who was wrong in the middle of the nineteenth century, are you happy with the prize you got out of it?
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:25 AM (1Z8zZ)

Well let's consider the two alternatives

1. Southern victory and a series of wars leading to eventual annexation of the North and more enduring slavery
2. Enduring and periodic conflict between two countries(this is very ugly and high casualty stuff in a region)
3. Slower Northern victory with more antagonism and death

Seems to have turned out ok. Could've been a shorter war, but certainly not the most painful way to have a resolution.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:28 AM (eYoxG)

175 Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation, and the South’s leaders don’t deserve to be given a place of honor.

--

(looks around at what's been happening since Obama's last action in January 2017 of placing a British intelligence officer in charge of our military spying on Americans)

I know it's difficult to tear away and go against all of the things taught to you your entire life in school and movies and news and people you trust that told you things prior to 2020, but it's okay to admit the South was right.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:28 AM (Kojh8)

176 167 re: sidebar

Mad Max: Stronk Empowered Woman, Coming Soon

I'm kidding, Fury Road was good fun and this seems like a natural follow-up, but Max got taken out of his own series
Posted by: brak at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (AR07F)

Fallout was more or less a Mad Max clone with Mad Max and Australia not in it. Some things are character based and some are world based. I'd say the semi-silent Max was always the viewer's window onto the world- which was really what the movies were about.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:28 AM (zZu0s)

177 >That big tall monument in the District of Corruption is named for a slave owner. Tear it down.

Posted by: Amirite?
---


don't joke
could happen

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:28 AM (geLO8)

178 144 The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)

The harm inflicted by the Northern population? The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (1Z8zZ)

It WAS about slavery for some Northerners. It was about national unity for many more. Breaking up a strong and growing nation into two smaller, weaker nations was opposed by a lot of people. And, don't kid yourself, opposition to the EXANSION of slavery was absolutely a primary driver of the Civil War 1.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (xcxpd)

179 "November is over and I failed to note that it was National Adoption Month"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

My brother has eight children - two adopted.

Sometimes, folks will ask him or my sil about their adopted kids - he always says "We adopted two - I forget which two."

Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (+5YjI)

180 I want to see it devolve to a thread about which Civil War movie is most accurate

twofer
Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (geLO

***

Gods and Generals. Hands down

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (ZV+pB)

181 Very long wars generally bode poorly for the liberty and welfare of the populace it's worth adding.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (eYoxG)

182 She removed the Confederate Flag

-
But the "Palestinian" terror flag is A OK!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (FVME7)

183 The reasons the South seceded are laid out in their declarations, if anyone were included to read them.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) reminds you

-

SHUT UP THE GOOD GUYS WON

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (Kojh8)

184 This slender brunette in her underwear isn't a Civil War (or War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, or War of Southern Pigheadedness, or The Late Unpleasantness, etc.) scholar, but she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)

185 The federales are broke, busted, corrupt, rapists, molesters, criminals, thieves, liars, child diddlers, sodomites, war mongers and rapists.

Their time will come sooner or later.

Hopefully sooner but why rush.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (R/m4+)

186 Self-willowed...very late to the Last Thread Edition:

Young Billy was a titanic farter
Making Mom an olfactory martyr
She brought a candle to his room
There was a tremendous BOOM!
Now everyone calls Billy "Firestarter".


I suffered for my art. Now, it's your turn.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (QzZeQ)

187 168 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (GBKbO)

Worf's son needed to be shot out of an airlock along with Wesley.
Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:26 AM (1Yy3c)

There's room enough in the airlock for Neelix and Kes.

Oh and Beshear.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (zZu0s)

188 Sandra Day O'Connor tits up


Can't get much looser than that.

Posted by: Riggo at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (FhXTo)

189 The Longstreet remembrance was good. Attached is this comment: "Confederate Lieutenant General James Longstreet is one of the most controversial figures of the American Civil War. His political views after the war turned a lot of his former comrades against him."

The situation is even more interesting than that; in the 25 years after the War ended, the former commanders put a lot of effort into putting out memoirs and stories of what happened, trying to both take credit for themselves and deflect blame for any disasters. As a part of that, the dissension and hate inside the surviving officer corps of each side become intense, while at the same time many ex-Federal officers became personal friends with the Confederate officers they had opposed on the battlefield, and vice versa.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (i9ffA)

190 Posted by: birddog at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (1E8/t)

yes they went on quite the destructive spree, but thank goodness so much of antiquity remains.

the first time I was in Rome we navigated traffic around a pyramid. My cousin told me it was built to honor Cleopatra's visit there in 46 BC

Posted by: kallisto at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (dCxaZ)

191 171 The reasons the South seceded are laid out in their declarations, if anyone were included to read them.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) reminds you at December 01, 2023 11:27 AM (aD39U)

It's probably more fun to argue without checking the primary sources.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (xcxpd)

192 CLAIM: California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) said more Floridians have moved to California in the past two years than vice versa. VERDICT: MOSTLY FALSE. The raw numbers favor Florida. Newsom is relying on a “per capita” migration rate.

.. this is like elections where 37.5% vote for X
..37.5% are voters, 34,375 are voters

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (RHGPo)

193 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Why anyone ever left the Holodeck is beyond me.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (+5YjI)


Between replicator and holodeck technologies, why would anyone leave Earth? In the new movies they show people building a starship on Earth. Why? Who would work on that day after day, dealing with HR and an asshole boss if you didn't NEED the paycheck?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (1Z8zZ)

194
How did DeSantis fare last night?

All I can find is the Progtard's view,

which even if Newson finished the debate curled into a ball weeping in the corner, they would've said he won.

So, DeSantis real debating dealio or no?

Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (QzZeQ)

195 DEATH TO THE FOUR OLDS!!!

Cutlass, 98, 442, Toronado!

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (zdLoL)

196 If the left is OK with removing statues you can be sure they will be fine with burning history books they don't like. Not that that should surprise anybody but maybe some Republican could point it out.

Posted by: Ripley at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (JojsZ)

197 144 The other reasons that can be given are things like tariffs and infrastructure spending, but that doesn't balance out at all with the harm that the breakup inflicted on the Southern general population.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:17 AM (eYoxG)

The harm inflicted by the Northern population? The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (1Z8zZ)

The harm inflicted on the Southern population was largely a product of losing trade access to their primary partners, that is the North, and the brutal taxation policies of the Confederacy and its otherwise ineffective administration.

And again, if you're founding a new country or taking over one, conflict is assumed.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (eYoxG)

198 142 121 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:20 AM (GBKbO)

Lemme guess, you love 'Lower Decks'...
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:23 AM (zZu0s)

========

Haven't watched it, but my Star Trek loving friend really likes it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (GBKbO)

199 188 Sandra Day O'Connor tits up
Can't get much looser than that.
Posted by: Riggo at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (FhXTo)

Well that's three - the senior members of the Ruling Class are dropping like flies.
Rosalynn Carter, Kissinger, O'Connor.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (i9ffA)

200 the first time I was in Rome we navigated traffic around a pyramid. My cousin told me it was built to honor Cleopatra's visit there in 46 BC
Posted by: kallisto at December 01, 2023 11:30 AM (dCxaZ)

The Pons Fabricius.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (zZu0s)

201 184 This slender brunette in her underwear isn't a Civil War (or War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, or War of Southern Pigheadedness, or The Late Unpleasantness, etc.) scholar, but she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)

Toned. And based.
Endorsed.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (xcxpd)

202 Try attending Christian worship at the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. For that matter, try finding Constantinople.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (yLuBw)
---
Why did Constantinople get the works?

Posted by: ballistic at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (oqH4h)

203 something completely different ..

A teenager claiming to be the girlfriend of the Uvalde mass shooter was arrested Wednesday for threatening victims of the massacre and the grieving community for half a year. Victoria Gabriela Rodríguez-Morales, 19, of Puerto Rico was slapped with 13 counts of making interstate threats through social media sites and emails with names like “SchoolShooter” and “Killer22,” the US Attorney’s Office for the District of Puerto Rico said. “Me and Salvador wanted to do this together but he don’t wait for me to come,” she allegedly wrote in Instagram messages in June.

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (RHGPo)

204 I remember Shelby Foote saying something like this in Ken Burns civil war…. The gentleman’s agreement made after the civil war is the south agreed to return and be part of the nation and acknowledge they lost; the north agreed to respect the sacrifices made in that war by the south and that they fought hard and nobly (that would include statues BTW)

Seems like a good agreement to me which should be kept

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (4pZxP)

205 I just want to see an actual fist fight break out at a MoMe over this.

Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (sm6Pk)

206 Can someone explain to me why Santos was just expelled?

Cuz he was a shameless liar and cuz he skimmed from some campaign funds? Doesn't that just describe everyone in Congress?

Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (1Yy3c)

207 202 Try attending Christian worship at the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. For that matter, try finding Constantinople.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:22 AM (yLuBw)
---
Why did Constantinople get the works?
Posted by: ballistic at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (oqH4h)

"That's nobody's business but the Turks."*


*I disagree with this, but that's the lyric

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (xcxpd)

208 It can be lunch time

Posted by: Skip at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (g7VdI)

209 So the war against Hamas is back on... Good

Posted by: It's me donna at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (n2vyf)

210 This slender brunette in her underwear isn't a Civil War (or War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, or War of Southern Pigheadedness, or The Late Unpleasantness, etc.) scholar, but she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)


WE HAVE BUSH!

Posted by: Booger at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (aD39U)

211 This slender brunette in her underwear isn't a Civil War (or War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, or War of Southern Pigheadedness, or The Late Unpleasantness, etc.) scholar, but she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)


Weird lighting. Head looks photoshopped on.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (1Z8zZ)

212 The Conservative Case For Locking Rich Lowry in a Dungeon

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (J2vNu)

213 This is all about us, isn't it?

Posted by: slender brunettes in underwear at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (NBVIP)

214 The harm inflicted by the Northern population? The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.

-

Everyone knows all the dirt-poor Southerners with no manufacturing were the ones buying all the cotton and driving the slave industry.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (Kojh8)

215 I look at this entire ACW discussion kind of objectively because I have no dog in this fight, my parents didn't even land here until 1960.

regarding this episode as somewhat of an outsider, I do perceive that had the Confederacy maintained, it would have been the perfect opening for foreign powers to come in and cause mayhem due to the fractured nature of late 19c CONUS

Posted by: kallisto at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (dCxaZ)

216 which even if Newson finished the debate curled into a ball weeping in the corner, they would've said he won.

So, DeSantis real debating dealio or no?
Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (QzZeQ)

By almost all accounts, DeSantis humiliated Newsom, probably knocked him out of the 2024 sweepstakes for good. It's amusing that the only people saying different this morning everywhere are the hardcore Gavin fanbois, and a few hardcore Trump fanbois on twitter (which is really weird)

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (i9ffA)

217 Surprised Karl Marx statues haven't started popping up

Posted by: Skip at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (g7VdI)

218 I'm conflicted on the Confederacy stuff, it was silly but it was the perfect virtue signal issue for Democrats.

Eventually, conservatives were going to lose and look bad doing it. It doesn't help that a lot of this stuff went up purposely right around the 1960's during the civil rights debate to make a point. It wasn't like it was up there for 150 years.

I'm in the camp that the Civil War was not just over slavery, it really should have been 2 countries. If this nation ever has a "national divorce" like 99% of people here want, I guarantee you the reason the "other side" will say it was over racism.

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (zdp32)

219 212 The Conservative Case For Locking Rich Lowry in a Dungeon
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (J2vNu)

=======

Written by Lowry.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

220 183 The reasons the South seceded are laid out in their declarations, if anyone were included to read them.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) reminds you

-

SHUT UP THE GOOD GUYS WON
Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (Kojh

And when you read them, you find the primary reason they give is slavery.

It's not complicated. the Southern gentry believed they were slowly losing the political battle on slavery, though Lincoln's victory did not present an immediate threat.

As they viewed slavery to be essential to their wealth and status, they went to war over the issue.

The Mexican-American war was to expand slavery. They wanted to invade Cuba to expand slavery.

It's not exactly a hidden motive.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (eYoxG)

221 Robert E. Lee Doesn’t Deserve a Statue, But Thomas Jefferson Does. Lee was no hero. by MONA CHAREN OCTOBER 20, 2021

In New York City, a statue of Thomas Jefferson has graced the City Council chamber for 100 years. This week the Public Design Commission voted unanimously to remove it. “Jefferson embodies some of the most shameful parts of our country’s history,” explained Adrienne Adams, a councilwoman from Queens. As if on cue, TFG chimed in with a statement chiding the city for “evicting” [him]...

When iconoclasts topple Jefferson, they seem to validate the argument advanced by defenders of Confederate monuments that there is no escape from the slippery slope. “First they come for Nathan Bedford Forrest, and then for Robert E. Lee. Where does it end? Is Jefferson next? Is George Washington?”

Do we overlook Jefferson’s shameful private behavior? No, but we take him in full. His contribution to human liberty, despite his personal behavior, entitles him to a place of honor. There will always be an asterisk, but to say that statues honoring him “shouldn’t exist” as the New York City assemblyman did, is to dismiss the Declaration, the American anthem.

Posted by: Intercepted TheBulwark Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (JCZqz)

222 The paradigm for thinking about what the left is & what it wants is Pol Pot's Year Zero in Cambodia.

Everything before is despicable & worthless.

Posted by: mnw at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (NLIak)

223 The harm inflicted by the Northern population? The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic

Last yankee state to free slaves was New Jersey on January 23rd, 1866.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (p8cAR)

224 Elon Musk to boycotting corporate advertisers: “Go F*ck Yourself!”

That corporate "journalists" were shocked and horrified by this defiance of establishment power so perfectly encapsulates the fraud at the center of their increasingly irrelevant industry

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (RHGPo)

225 "That's nobody's business but the Turks."*


*I disagree with this, but that's the lyric
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (xcxpd)

The dome of the Hagia Sophia was designed so that when the sun was rising, because the lower part was all windows, it would appear like the dome was floating without support over the church.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (zZu0s)

226 They might as well do away with the Holidays of Presidents Day, Flag Day, and Independence Day.

Posted by: TC at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (FjlUt)

227 I'm in the camp that the Civil War was not just over slavery, it really should have been 2 countries. If this nation ever has a "national divorce" like 99% of people here want, I guarantee you the reason the "other side" will say it was over racism.

Pretty much any opposition to the left is already called "racism" so it's not like you're going out on a limb here.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (Bd6X8)

228 Gruesome if he is out, say hello the Mooch

Posted by: Skip at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (g7VdI)

229 219 212 The Conservative Case For Locking Rich Lowry in a Dungeon
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (J2vNu)

=======

Written by Lowry.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

He writes the worst self insert fan fiction

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (xcxpd)

230 "It was the driving reason both practically and explicitly in their declarations of causes."

Do governments ever put their (DeepState) real intent into their "mission statements"? Or do they find a popular cause to get the public on their side?

The argument has been made that the tariffs benefitted the wealthy, and was a driving factor. Of course the wealthy Southern elites wanted/needed the slaves to keep their agricultural profits, but the tariffs put an "undue" burden on them.

Slavery could have been ended over some longer term (20 years?) without the death and ruination, but there were other forces at work (perhaps).

Posted by: illiniwek at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (Cus5s)

231 They might as well do away with the Holidays of Presidents Day, Flag Day, and Independence Day.
Posted by: TC

Getting rid of pride year would be okay by me.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (+5YjI)

232 Auron MacIntyre has a video about how the US is on it's fifth republic.

My friends, I finally see we are like France. Let us console each other like the guys in the furnace at the end of Toy Story 3.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (44ww/)

233 222 The paradigm for thinking about what the left is & what it wants is Pol Pot's Year Zero in Cambodia.

Everything before is despicable & worthless.
Posted by: mnw at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (NLIak)

This. It always comes down to this in it's purest form. Cambodia was a distillation of all of the other commie fucktards of the 20th century. Same or worse things happened everywhere it was tried, it was just in it's purest form there.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (zZu0s)

234 229 Written by Lowry.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (GBKbO)

He writes the worst self insert fan fiction
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (xcxpd)

========

"They do their job."
-Lowry

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (GBKbO)

235 We conservatives feared the slippery slope because we knew it was inevitable.

You can always tell who the liars are on slippery slopes because their argument invariably is that it doesn't follow that "if x, then y," as if we are just debating formal logic, while ignoring the mountain of evidence that the people at the top of the slope intend to and are working toward pushing people down that slope. It's not that gay marriage simply had to lead to "bake the cake," it's that it was the plan all along. Cultural warriors are engaged in a war; the individual battles are not their objective.

Posted by: The goal is enslaving you at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (pjs7m)

236 And when you read them, you find the primary reason they give is slavery.

-

Yep.

And like I said, thank goodness the Good Guys won and settled the whole THE United States vs the United States issue once and for all.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (Kojh8)

237 "I say that we must not interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists, because the constitution forbids it, and the general welfare does not require us to do so."

Abraham Lincoln, 1859 when running for President.

So I guess Lincoln never thought this war was about slavery either, since he said he wouldn't end it.

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (zdp32)

238 "Confederate Lieutenant General James Longstreet is one of the most controversial figures of the American Civil War.

-
Sumbitch up and went Republican!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (FVME7)

239 Honoring the deserving Confederates was part of this:

"With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (og/kO)

240 The conservative case for removing statues of the founders:

These great men don't deserve to be tarnished by being associated with what we've allowed this country to become.

It certainly isn't what they created.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (JMAcK)

241 213 This is all about us, isn't it?
Posted by: slender brunettes in underwear at December 01, 2023 11:34 AM (NBVIP)

God, I hope so

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (xcxpd)

242 she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)


I can imagine some post-conquest glee...

Posted by: Diogenes at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (uSHSS)

243 So I guess Lincoln never thought this war was about slavery either, since he said he wouldn't end it.

The Confederates made it about slavery.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (og/kO)

244 I remember back in... oh, somewhere around 2001-2003, everyone was all offended because muzzies were destroying old Buddhist and other assorted statues that weren't in praise of their glorious moon god.

Oh how we laughed and laughed: "Look at those savages, destroying their heritage."

Not so funny now.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (dGCAG)

245 215 I look at this entire ACW discussion kind of objectively because I have no dog in this fight, my parents didn't even land here until 1960."

I live in Texas now, and feel that except for the huge issue of Slavery, the south wasn't really wrong. I'll admit, however, that one of my ancestors was a Staff Officer for Sherman on his march through Georgia, and was decorated by Sherman for his service.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:38 AM (i9ffA)

246 This attractive brunette in a modest dress rejects the idea of underwear being able to cause a "political conversion" from leftist to conservative in the women who wear it for Instagram, but the idea does cause her some amusement:

https://is.gd/hoYgBw

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (RSbhh)

247 Cutlass, 98, 442, Toronado!
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (zdLoL)

Well, GM did kill them off. 86'd the 88, too.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (yLuBw)

248 This slender brunette in her underwear isn't a Civil War (or War Between the States, or War of Northern Aggression, or War of Southern Pigheadedness, or The Late Unpleasantness, etc.) scholar, but she is opposed to a bunch of Maoists tearing down American historical symbols in ecstatic bouts of post-conquest glee:
https://is.gd/hoYgBw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:29 AM (d04cU)

See through. Racing stripe confirmed.

Posted by: Robert at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (1Yy3c)

249 So, Star Trek...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Why anyone ever left the Holodeck is beyond me.
Posted by: Tonypete at December 01, 2023 11:24 AM (+5YjI)

Between replicator and holodeck technologies, why would anyone leave Earth? In the new movies they show people building a starship on Earth. Why? Who would work on that day after day, dealing with HR and an asshole boss if you didn't NEED the paycheck?
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (1Z8zZ)


That might actually make a decent Star Trek series or couple of movies.

The people of Earth vote that Space Travel is to oppressive to other cultures and tooo haaaaard!

Esp. when they have replicators for everything they need and holodecks to fulfill their lives.

So, they withdraw from space. Dismantle their ships and space program, and start livin' the good life.

Until...the Space muslims(or whatever) arrive!!!!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (QzZeQ)

250 And like I said, thank goodness the Good Guys won and settled the whole THE United States vs the United States issue once and for all.
Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:36 AM (Kojh


And now we, and our children, will be blessed to live under the rule of people like Obama and Biden forever.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (1Z8zZ)

251 237 "I say that we must not interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists, because the constitution forbids it, and the general welfare does not require us to do so."

Abraham Lincoln, 1859 when running for President.

So I guess Lincoln never thought this war was about slavery either, since he said he wouldn't end it.
Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (zdp32)

The South's cause was FOR SLAVERY.

Licoln's cause was TO PRESERVE THE UNION.

Reasons given very explicitly by both sides. Obviously there is no war without the secession. So the war is caused by the issue of slavery and its perceived essential nature to the Southern gentry.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (eYoxG)

252 The Confederates made it about slavery.

-

Let me go on record:

I don't give a crap about the slaves. Couldn't care less.

My only concern is the states, 10th Amendment, etc., and whether the wife is required to remain in an abusive relationship with the husband.

And that matter was settled when the Good Guys won.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (Kojh8)

253 Greetings! I've been in a funk since the Covid thread yesterday. I lost friends who died, not from Covid but from the vax. Damn near lost my wife. Lost my career, which I enjoyed. I've got 3 friends right now who are circling the drain, so to speak. All my age. Trying to stay upbeat, but it's a challenge.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (MeG8a)

254 >I just want to see an actual fist fight break out at a MoMe over this.
Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:33 AM (sm6Pk)

I'll be swinging a Gibson Thunderbird at anyone near me.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (44ww/)

255 237 "I say that we must not interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists, because the constitution forbids it, and the general welfare does not require us to do so."

Abraham Lincoln, 1859 when running for President.

So I guess Lincoln never thought this war was about slavery either, since he said he wouldn't end it.
Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (zdp32)

Lincoln's views on slavery changed during the war. He was not an abolitionist when he was elected. But there were a lot of Republicans in Congress who were very hard core abolitionists.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (xcxpd)

256 Glad I've been re-watching Ken Burn's "Civil War"...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (TTAGa)

257 Replace Jefferson's statue with George Floyd ... there is a Real Man of Virtuous Character!

Posted by: illiniwek at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (Cus5s)

258 That might actually make a decent Star Trek series or couple of movies.

The people of Earth vote that Space Travel is to oppressive to other cultures and tooo haaaaard!

Esp. when they have replicators for everything they need and holodecks to fulfill their lives.

So, they withdraw from space. Dismantle their ships and space program, and start livin' the good life.

Until...the Space muslims(or whatever) arrive!!!!
Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (QzZeQ)


Wasn't there a story line where it was discovered that warp drive slightly but accumulatively fucks up the fabric of space-time and so FTL needed to be abandoned?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (aD39U)

259 This attractive brunette in a modest dress rejects the idea of underwear being able to cause a "political conversion" from leftist to conservative in the women who wear it for Instagram, but the idea does cause her some amusement:

https://is.gd/hoYgBw

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (RSbhh)

That's just funny.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (1Z8zZ)

260 Cutlass, 98, 442, Toronado!
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 01, 2023 11:31 AM (zdLoL)

Well, GM did kill them off. 86'd the 88, too.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (yLuBw)


I was at 6's and 7's when they did that.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (uSHSS)

261 It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is.
---
All wars are fought for profit.
All of them.
There are no just wars, that's a lie by those who are profiting.

The South's growing ties with industrial Europe threatened greatly the economic dominance by the North.
All other reasons are lies put out by those who profited.

If the North cared about slavery, John Brown's raid would have sparked the war.

We can abhor slavery and equally admit the North lied. And wrote those lies into all the history books.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (TzW+Y)

262 116

OK, I'm gonna have to get off this thread before I have an aneurism.
----
Why not go for a conniption?

Posted by: Ciampino -- Opportunity knocks & you complain about the noise?! at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (qfLjt)

263 249 So, they withdraw from space. Dismantle their ships and space program, and start livin' the good life.

Until...the Space muslims(or whatever) arrive!!!!
Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (QzZeQ)

=======

I had an idea for a new Star Trek series where the Federation was defeated by some outside force hundreds of years before, and Sol has become an oppressive system occupied by an outside force.

A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

264 The dome of the Hagia Sophia was designed so that when the sun was rising, because the lower part was all windows, it would appear like the dome was floating without support over the church.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (zZu0s)

The Byzantines lost the technology after a while but that was the biggest dome for a long, long time. It's withstood a lot of earthquakes over the years too.

The Ottomans eventually surpassed it (I think with the Sulimaniya) but them claiming the dome for Islam was very very significant. Former seat of the eastern church etc etc. but the visual of the dome is so dominant, and still standing, that to me it's really the symbol.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (z/ifB)

265 By the 1780's, the New England states and Pennsylvania had already begun to eliminate slavery. First the importation of slaves and then actual slave ownership. To say the North didn't give a shit about slavery is historically incorrect. Northerners marched, voted and petitioned to end the practice of slavery for generations before the Civil War began.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (2cS/G)

266 253 Greetings! I've been in a funk since the Covid thread yesterday. I lost friends who died, not from Covid but from the vax. Damn near lost my wife. Lost my career, which I enjoyed. I've got 3 friends right now who are circling the drain, so to speak. All my age. Trying to stay upbeat, but it's a challenge.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (MeG8a)

Hang in there, try to focus on something you enjoy and spend as much time with your friends as you can. Nobody sticks around forever

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (xcxpd)

267 The paradigm for thinking about what the left is & what it wants is Pol Pot's Year Zero in Cambodia.

Everything before is despicable & worthless.

Posted by: mnw at December 01, 2023 11:35 AM (NLIak)

------------

"And every year is a new Year Zero, comrade!"

Posted by: ShainS -- CISA Cognitive Security Agent at December 01, 2023 11:42 AM (3VPky)

268 Can someone explain to me why Santos was just expelled?

Cuz, not being a Democrat , he was a shameless liar and cuz he skimmed from some campaign funds

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:42 AM (FVME7)

269 "Confederate Lieutenant General James Longstreet is one of the most controversial figures of the American Civil War.

-
Sumbitch up and went Republican!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:37 AM (FVME7)

Who are you quoting? Controversial? Everyone's controversial to someone. If you aren't controversial, you're just an NPC, going through this life, like a leaf on the wind.

I guess Longstreet pissed off some southerners by being somewhat critical of Lee.

And had the difficult task of trying to hold off the inevitable in the west for a while. Otherwise, seems he was a brilliant tactician, and was respected and loved by those who served under him.

I'm not sure that's controversial.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:42 AM (dGCAG)

270 258 Wasn't there a story line where it was discovered that warp drive slightly but accumulatively fucks up the fabric of space-time and so FTL needed to be abandoned?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (aD39U)

=======

They kept that as a very minor plot point for a season or two before forgetting all about it. The bits where they had to say shit like, "We've gotten permission to go faster than Warp 5 because the galaxy is about to end," were always just dumb.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (GBKbO)

271 I had an idea for a new Star Trek series where the Federation was defeated by some outside force hundreds of years before, and Sol has become an oppressive system occupied by an outside force.

A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (GBKbO)

Young men shouldn't go chasing after space Communism.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (xcxpd)

272 Greetings! I've been in a funk since the Covid thread yesterday. I lost friends who died, not from Covid but from the vax. Damn near lost my wife. Lost my career, which I enjoyed. I've got 3 friends right now who are circling the drain, so to speak. All my age. Trying to stay upbeat, but it's a challenge.

Posted by: gourmand du jour

-

I saw (maybe here) that a military whistleblower came out and released data showing that heart problems in the ranks have increased by 900% or so IIRC since the mandatory shot.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (Kojh8)

273 Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (1Z8zZ)

That is funny. Wrong picture. LOL.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (RSbhh)

274
Lincoln's views on slavery changed during the war. He was not an abolitionist when he was elected. But there were a lot of Republicans in Congress who were very hard core abolitionists.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (xcxpd)

I think it's clearer to say he was a "moderate abolitionist", which iirc was one of the categories they used at the time.

Radical abolitionists called for an immediate end, moderates hoped to do something slowly, and conservative abolitionists opposed slavery but were much more incremental.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (eYoxG)

275 Wasn't there a story line where it was discovered that warp drive slightly but accumulatively fucks up the fabric of space-time and so FTL needed to be abandoned?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (aD39U)

Yes. The global warming bullshit.

This is why I hate TNG, for the most part. There are some gems in there, but it was a sea of boring/useless pap.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (zZu0s)

276 271 Young men shouldn't go chasing after space Communism.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (xcxpd)

========

Kirk era tech, complete with a copy of the American constitution.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (GBKbO)

277 If seriously watching Ken Burns Propaganda Civil War hopefully it will be your last of his crap

Posted by: Skip at December 01, 2023 11:44 AM (g7VdI)

278 The north cared so much about the slaves that they said stay the fuck in the south after the war was over.

Posted by: nckate at December 01, 2023 11:44 AM (SnxUt)

279 A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (GBKbO)
++++
But with some changes. The Prime Directive must be to eliminate commies!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:44 AM (d04cU)

280 “Me and Salvador wanted to do this together but he don’t wait for me to come,” she allegedly wrote in Instagram messages in June.
Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:32 AM (RHGPo)

She sounds like she's nuts. And we have to accept that some cases of insanity are incurable and terminal, and take steps to hasten that outcome.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (yLuBw)

281 279 A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (GBKbO)
++++
But with some changes. The Prime Directive must be to eliminate commies!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:44 AM (d04cU)

=======

I thought that was implied.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (GBKbO)

282
The Confederates made it about slavery.
Posted by: Rob Crawford
____

No law had been passed ending slavery and Lincoln promised not to end it. Pretty clear cut.

So clearly other things were going on.

Of course slavery was in the mix, no one is saying otherwise.

No one here is pro-slavery when they make a case we shouldn't shit on any historical american figure.

Our Founders owned slaves, and they specifically protected slavery. That doesn't mean America was founded purely on slavery. that's what the Left though pushes

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (zdp32)

283 I'd say the semi-silent Max was always the viewer's window onto the world- which was really what the movies were about.

that's true

well we'll be there soon enough. Lord Humungous 2024

Posted by: brak at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (AR07F)

284 Can someone explain to me why Santos was just expelled?

Cuz, not being a Democrat , he was a shameless liar and cuz he skimmed from some campaign funds
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:42 AM (FVME7)


I would have thought that wardrobe and Botox would be legitimate campaign expenses for a politician.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (aD39U)

285 279 But with some changes. The Prime Directive must be to eliminate commies!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:44 AM (d04cU)

And Islam.

Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (sm6Pk)

286 256 Glad I've been re-watching Ken Burn's "Civil War"...
Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (TTAGa)

Skip Burns and just read Shelby Foote.

I try to read his Civil War narrative at least once a year.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:46 AM (xcxpd)

287 I wonder how many of the people who were apotheosizing RBG know that O'Connor was the FIRST female SCOTUS justice? I'll bet damn few. Likewise, I'll bet the media coverage, if there is any, will be a tenth of RBG's, and much more critical.

I wasn't a big fan of SOC's rulings, but she was doubtless light years ahead of whomever the Dems would have put in that slot.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 01, 2023 11:46 AM (I/Qkd)

288 The Civil War was because Southern opinion leaders did not connect the end with the beginning. They let their states be dragged into 1) secession and 2) war by their most radical elements.

All this to preserve the Southern states' God-given right to grow cotton and rice in WY & MT.

We all know how speedily Congress moves in the face of furious opposition by a sizable minority. GLACIALLY.

Posted by: mnw at December 01, 2023 11:46 AM (NLIak)

289 Everyone gets the blues now and then. I seldom do, but something about that thread put everything in perspective. It wasn't natural, what was done to us. It was a crime and the people that did it made bank and have suffered nothing.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (MeG8a)

290 Dad had a 1969 Olds Delta 88
what a boat
and no AC

Posted by: Don Black at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (geLO8)

291 No law had been passed ending slavery and Lincoln promised not to end it. Pretty clear cut.

So clearly other things were going on.

Of course slavery was in the mix, no one is saying otherwise.

No one here is pro-slavery when they make a case we shouldn't shit on any historical american figure.

Our Founders owned slaves, and they specifically protected slavery. That doesn't mean America was founded purely on slavery. that's what the Left though pushes

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (zdp32)

Read their declarations of causes(there's one for each of the states). The threat of an eventual end was sufficient.

Keep in mind the Southern elites thought their wealth and status was inextricably tied to slavery. Had they known sharecropping would replace it, probably less of an issue.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (eYoxG)

292 Lincoln's views on slavery changed during the war.

-

Same as Obama and every other politician. See also: Gays

"Does saying this give me a political advantage in order to remain in power and do the stuff I want to do?"

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (cSqub)

293 that's true

well we'll be there soon enough. Lord Humungous 2024
Posted by: brak at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (AR07F)

Don't blame me, I voted for Auntie Entity.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (zZu0s)

294 Lincoln's views on slavery changed during the war. He was not an abolitionist when he was elected. But there were a lot of Republicans in Congress who were very hard core abolitionists.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (xcxpd)

Seems to me, Lincoln left enough of a paper trail that people ought not to have any doubts about where he stood on this issue.

He was absolutely, firmly opposed to slavery. In her personal opinions, his moral perspective, and his overall vision for the nation.

He was also a politician. He wasn't a tyrant (no matter what some people say), and he knew he didn't have the political clout to push for the end of slavery... until he could.

I don't think his views evolved at all. The political situation did.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (dGCAG)

295 It's so much easier to reduce the entire Confederate South to mustache-twirling Simon LeGrees and the Union to glowing angelic bastions of abolitionist virtue. Working your way through complex motivations and circumstances, genuine Constitutional issues at work, and the ultimate effect it had on federal supremacy is haaaaarrrd.

Posted by: But we're stuck with the results regardless at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (r/JV0)

296 276 271 Young men shouldn't go chasing after space Communism.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (xcxpd)

========

Kirk era tech, complete with a copy of the American constitution.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (GBKbO)

See now that I'm ok with. Next Gen on...I'm siding with the Gorn.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (xcxpd)

297 Also Blago, the Democrats had a decade of nearly uncontested control of the government prior to seceding. There didn't really exist other ongoing grievances to fight about.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (eYoxG)

298 I had an idea for a new Star Trek series where the Federation was defeated by some outside force hundreds of years before, and Sol has become an oppressive system occupied by an outside force.

A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

A young MAN discovers it? Is he at least trans and black? I couldn't help but notice your lack of ANY important plot points in your summary...no gay romance, trans-allegories, white fascists...what kind of crappy pitch are you working here?

Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy and all the other Media Executives at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (JCZqz)

299 I have thought a great deal about the real reaason the war was fought, considered slavery and economics. I used to have long discussions with my father about it, who was quite the Civil War historian. I haven't just read resources, I've read letters written by men of the time, not politicians or leaders, but ordinary soldiers.

And I've concluded that the answer is something our society cannot really conceive of now, not even those of us who consider ourselves conservative. It is because the men on both sides thought it right, proper, and fitting that they should volunteer to go die for their political beliefs - nothing more or less than that. Most of them didn't even hesitate, and although Death was not to be welcomed, they also did not fear it. That's why hundreds of thousands of them did it, on both sides.

and every last one of them would look down in disgust at the craven cowards we have all become today. Some psychopathic man wearing a dress shits in the middle of the street, and we're scared to even say boo. Every last one of them would have killed such a man on the spot.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (i9ffA)

300 These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

p1.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (aD39U)

301 We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

P2

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (aD39U)

302 The Shelby Foote books are on sale at audible for $5 per volume. Today is the last day.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (44ww/)

303 College kids think every southerner owned multiple slaves

Posted by: nckate at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (SnxUt)

304 This week, Judge Valeri Caproni of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York granted leave for Energy Policy Advocates (EPA) to file an amicus brief with that Court in City Of New York v. Exxon Mobil Corporation et al. The brief includes an appendix of over 100 pages of emails and memos sent to and from the New York Attorney General’s Office (NYAG), which were recently obtained by Government Accountability & Oversight (GAO). Most of these emails were recently released for the first time and following years of stonewalling. All of this reveals the Rockefeller Family Fund’s (RFF) instrumental role in originating the ever-expanding climate litigation campaign which began with the New York Attorney General’s November 2015 subpoena of ExxonMobil.

In a breathtaking read, the public now sees in the principals’ own words that the admitted objective is to obtain discovery for help with, and otherwise help move along, a national campaign of lawfare designed to coerce defendants “to the table” in support of unpopular national ‘climate’ (i.e., energy-constraint) policy.

Posted by: SMOD at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (RHGPo)

305 " The North could have let the South go but they didn't. Why? It wasn't slavery. Northerners give give two shits about slavery. It was about money. It always is."

idk the details of the tariffs, but it seems maybe removing or restructuring the tariffs could have been an alternative relief, instead of "forcing secession"?

Was BigRailroad influencing Lincoln, or other BigMoney interests? Almost certainly, but keeping the union together meant war, not compromise on BigMoney interests?

Certainly in the end, federal power increased and sovereign state power was diminished, and that trend has been kept intact (except for Roe v Wade being overturned? and a couple other recent decisions?).

Posted by: illiniwek at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (Cus5s)

306 Replace Jefferson's statue with George Floyd ... there is a Real Man of Virtuous Character.

This tracks. After all, we let people who wear Che shirts and think "God Damn America" is the beginning of a beautiful sermon tell us that it's just morally wrong to have anything General Lee, including a car on a decades-old B-grade TV show.

Posted by: you'd think people would reflect on who they's trying to share "the high ground" with, but nope at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (pjs7m)

307 For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

P3

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (aD39U)

308 Kirk era tech, complete with a copy of the American constitution.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:43 AM (GBKbO)

The Yangs and the Comes!

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (i9ffA)

309
I saw (maybe here) that a military whistleblower came out and released data showing that heart problems in the ranks have increased by 900% or so IIRC since the mandatory shot.
Posted by: moron robbie

Heart attacks.
But random otherwise healthy people have been dropping dead for no reason... since forever.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (cOq4q)

310 294 Lincoln's views on slavery changed during the war. He was not an abolitionist when he was elected. But there were a lot of Republicans in Congress who were very hard core abolitionists.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:40 AM (xcxpd)

Seems to me, Lincoln left enough of a paper trail that people ought not to have any doubts about where he stood on this issue.

He was absolutely, firmly opposed to slavery. In her personal opinions, his moral perspective, and his overall vision for the nation.

He was also a politician. He wasn't a tyrant (no matter what some people say), and he knew he didn't have the political clout to push for the end of slavery... until he could.

I don't think his views evolved at all. The political situation did.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (dGCAG)

I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.
I agree, I think he personally thought 'all men should be free' but I don't think he was politically committed to it until later in the war.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (xcxpd)

311 296 See now that I'm ok with. Next Gen on...I'm siding with the Gorn.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (xcxpd)

========

I always imagined the Dominion.

I had another idea for a series set at the very end of the First Romulan War.

An admiral offers an older ship to a wounded captain in an effort to reclaim what Starfleet was about: exploration, since most of Starfleet's efforts had become about fighting the war. The ship goes in a brand new direction (we could call it up) and ends up in the middle of a large, harsh vision of space without any intelligent life to be found. Perhaps the first season would end with them meeting some kind of terrible and huge intelligence kind of like V'ger.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (GBKbO)

312 >Dad had a 1969 Olds Delta 88

Did he shop at S-Mart?

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (44ww/)

313 298 A young MAN discovers it? Is he at least trans and black? I couldn't help but notice your lack of ANY important plot points in your summary...no gay romance, trans-allegories, white fascists...what kind of crappy pitch are you working here?
Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy and all the other Media Executives at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (JCZqz)

=======

I could make him female, gay, and lame.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (GBKbO)

314 Skip Burns and just read Shelby Foote.

I try to read his Civil War narrative at least once a year.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:46 AM (xcxpd)

I like it for the time line aspect. I take the political discussions with a grain of salt.

You're referring to Foote's Gettysburg trilogy?

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (TTAGa)

315 We just watched the SCOTUS refuse to hear a case between Texas and Pennsylvania regarding election fraud before jailing political dissidents, and we're critical of Americans who said "No. No more. We're done. Leave us alone."

But the Good Guys can never leave other people alone.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (cSqub)

316 Manifest Destiny did not extend in just one direction. The progressive thinkers of the south, Knights of The Golden Circle, wanted to 'filibuster' the entire Caribbean shoreline and take over the slave empires there.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (zdLoL)

317 295 It's so much easier to reduce the entire Confederate South to mustache-twirling Simon LeGrees and the Union to glowing angelic bastions of abolitionist virtue. Working your way through complex motivations and circumstances, genuine Constitutional issues at work, and the ultimate effect it had on federal supremacy is haaaaarrrd.
Posted by: But we're stuck with the results regardless at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (r/JV0)

People build stories in their heads. I think people look at the south kind of as Noble, Tragic anti-heroes. Lee is a good example of this.

But people want to think of things as all one thing or another. The combo breakers like... say Bedford Forrest or Sulla (Lucius Cornelius) make you realize that people do not always fit a narrative or even a 'type'. They change. Or you do. Or you never understood them to begin with.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

318 Eli Whitney saved slavery and 30 more years of industrialization would have killed it.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (TzW+Y)

319 I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.
I agree, I think he personally thought 'all men should be free' but I don't think he was politically committed to it until later in the war.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (xcxpd)

The radical abolitionists were not a very large group. Without secession and the war, slavery probably muddles along for another 20-30 years before moving to sharecropping.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (eYoxG)

320 >>>Sidebar: Ace? Is this something?

No. Mad Max is men doing men stuff. Enough stick girl empowerment garbage.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (i4S1+)

321 ...
Our Founders owned slaves, and they specifically protected slavery. That doesn't mean America was founded purely on slavery. that's what the Left though pushes

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:45 AM (zdp32)

Read their declarations of causes(there's one for each of the states). The threat of an eventual end was sufficient.

Keep in mind the Southern elites thought their wealth and status was inextricably tied to slavery. Had they known sharecropping would replace it, probably less of an issue.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:47 AM (eYoxG)

And it did. The slaves living in the South in the period just before the CW (1860-ish) were valued at over $3 billion. The slave market was completely decoupled from the market for cotton, and at those values there was no capacity for the North to purchase and free the slaves either - much less the South. In their eyes, the South couldn't afford to free them. Their hand needed to be forced.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (9cfgd)

322 I could make him female, gay, and lame.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (GBKbO)

Don't forget the haircut.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (zZu0s)

323 298 A young MAN discovers it? Is he at least trans and black? I couldn't help but notice your lack of ANY important plot points in your summary...no gay romance, trans-allegories, white fascists...what kind of crappy pitch are you working here?
Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy and all the other Media Executives at December 01, 2023 11:48 AM (JCZqz)

Only a white woman (or someone roleplaying one) would think (or roleplay thinking) that black people troon out.

Posted by: XTC at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (sm6Pk)

324 Heart attacks.
But random otherwise healthy people have been dropping dead for no reason... since forever.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher

-

They bumped into something in between heartbeats, duh.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (cSqub)

325 the Democrats had a decade of nearly uncontested control of the government prior to seceding. There didn't really exist other ongoing grievances to fight about.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy
___

They had been feuding for a long time over a variety of issues. Trade, banking, foreign policy, the power of the central government. Their place at the table, etc.

Just like the moving of the capital from Philadelphia (North) to DC (more South) was about who controlled the nation. And that was in 1790 when slavery was unquestionably legal everywhere in the US.

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (zdp32)

326 319 I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.
I agree, I think he personally thought 'all men should be free' but I don't think he was politically committed to it until later in the war.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (xcxpd)

=========

He only wanted to write the first 2 volumes dealing with Lincoln before his presidency. They're significantly better than the last 4 volumes which feel like text book detailed explanations of the entire war effort.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (GBKbO)

327 I could make him female, gay, and lame.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (GBKbO)
++++
You'd better. "Modern Audiences" will reject it if not.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (d04cU)

328 What a shame Ken Burns and Turtledove are both shitlibs.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (44ww/)

329 and whether the wife is required to remain in an abusive relationship with the husband.

And that matter was settled when the Good Guys won.
Posted by: moron robbie


And the bitch needs to shut up and sit down. Or die by his hands.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (p8cAR)

330
People build stories in their heads. I think people look at the south kind of as Noble, Tragic anti-heroes. Lee is a good example of this.

But people want to think of things as all one thing or another. The combo breakers like... say Bedford Forrest or Sulla (Lucius Cornelius) make you realize that people do not always fit a narrative or even a 'type'. They change. Or you do. Or you never understood them to begin with.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (zZu0s)

The Progressives did a lot of revisionism to try to make the ACW about early 20th century issues. Hence Birth of a Nation, promoted by Woodrow Wilson.

The America of the Civil War era was not the America of the 1900s and those ideologies argued to be at play were not prominent.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (eYoxG)

331 And the bitch needs to shut up and sit down. Or die by his hands.

-

DONE TOLT HER ONCE

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (cSqub)

332 >>My only concern is the states, 10th Amendment, etc.

Most people don't know but the last colony to ratify the Constitution was Rhode Island. They held out for a year over concerns that boiled down to federalism, the didn't want to trade one king for another.

They earned the derisive term Rogue Island from the other colonies and boycotts were set up to hinder trade. Basically, they wanted to starve the colony until they surrendered and agreed to sign. They got some concessions but eventually gave in a signed rather than face certain ruin.

Rhode Island was the South before the South existed. So bless all your hearts, y'all. Have a quahog and a lobsta.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (ZLI7S)

333 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023 11:49 AM (aD39U)

I'm just going to point out that what they said was that the North had broken the compact. The matter over which they broke it was slavery but the issue was that they broke it. They were moving in the direction of an omnipotent federal government and the South didn't want it.

It is pointless, however, to discuss the matter because the two sides won't agree.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (1Z8zZ)

334 318 Eli Whitney saved slavery and 30 more years of industrialization would have killed it.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (TzW+Y)

The radical abolitionists were not a very large group. Without secession and the war, slavery probably muddles along for another 20-30 years before moving to sharecropping.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (eYoxG)

Two comments in a row of good sense. The thing is, people also like drama. They like momentous events.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (zZu0s)

335 328 What a shame Ken Burns and Turtledove are both shitlibs.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:53 AM (44ww/)

I've seen Turtledove on Twitter recently, he's gotten really, really stupid.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (i9ffA)

336 I wanted the holodeck to simulate the deep ocean, and the doors become a geyser that floods the Enterprise.


Wesley did it.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (44ww/)

337 He was also a politician. He wasn't a tyrant (no matter what some people say), and he knew he didn't have the political clout to push for the end of slavery... until he could.

I don't think his views evolved at all. The political situation did.


c.f. FDR and Woodrow Wilson. I despise both of them, but they were playing a political game, hoping that something would change the minds of Americans. Unfortunately, something turned out to be Pearl Harbor and Germany's resumption of submarine attacks on passenger and merchant ships.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (I/Qkd)

338 Slavery wasn't the only reason.
-------------
But it was a common denominator, the lowest common denominator, like the number '1'.

Enough of that shiite...

Jefferon's denial of his mixied race granddaughter in enough reason to wipe him from history.
- progtard whoreally knows he is against fascism while goes all orwell.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 01, 2023 11:55 AM (cOq4q)

339 Middle East war:
Israeli Mia Schem was operated on by a VET while held by Hamas

https://mol.im/a/12813533

Posted by: Ciampino - It's hard to keep track of how many trains have derailed at December 01, 2023 11:55 AM (qfLjt)

340 I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.
I agree, I think he personally thought 'all men should be free' but I don't think he was politically committed to it until later in the war.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:50 AM (xcxpd)

I think Lincoln was something of a proto-Trump. An outsider, who everyone in DC thought was a bumbling fool.

Of course he wasn't. He was a man, flawed, and it's relatively easy for any of us to point out those flaws. One of the telling facts of Lincoln though, is when he went to Richmond, after the fighting there stopped. The black people saw him as a savoir. a living saint who was there to change their lives forever.

He seemed to have been deeply touched by the experience, and I think if he had lived, he would have been much more committed to improving the lives of black people in this nation. We would have been better off, all of us, if he had lived.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:55 AM (dGCAG)

341 I look at this entire ACW discussion kind of objectively because I have no dog in this fight, my parents didn't even land here until 1960.

Were their arms tired ?

Posted by: JT at December 01, 2023 11:55 AM (T4tVD)

342 325 the Democrats had a decade of nearly uncontested control of the government prior to seceding. There didn't really exist other ongoing grievances to fight about.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy
___

They had been feuding for a long time over a variety of issues. Trade, banking, foreign policy, the power of the central government. Their place at the table, etc.

Just like the moving of the capital from Philadelphia (North) to DC (more South) was about who controlled the nation. And that was in 1790 when slavery was unquestionably legal everywhere in the US.

Posted by: Blago at December 01, 2023 11:52 AM (zdp32)

The secession happens before their elected opponents do anything. Before they take office. And again, these are things they've tolerated the back and forth on for decades and overall were not very material.

Compare it to say the Whiskey tax which promoted an immediate revolt. Some government policy can be a pain point for people, but Congress was mostly doing irrelevant dicking around for the first few decades, which was in many ways ideal.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at December 01, 2023 11:56 AM (eYoxG)

343 I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.

-
Nobody understands him but Mary Todd.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)

344 Wasn't there a story line where it was discovered that warp drive slightly but accumulatively fucks up the fabric of space-time and so FTL needed to be abandoned?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 01, 2023


***
I remember that. Star Fleet issued a mandate that ships were not supposed to exceed a certain warp factor, Four or something like that. Which would have added years to many interstellar trips.

(Kind of like the 55-mph speed limit on interstates in the '70s and '80s. Imagine Riker singing: "I can't drive -- Warp Factor Four!!!")

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 01, 2023 11:56 AM (J2vNu)

345 I could make him female, gay, and lame.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Now we're talking!! Now, Old Trek had a bunch of boring scenes of ships fighting in space, Klingnons cutting people with sword things, but maybe in this one, we could remake the ship's bar into a more queer-themed space, and spend most of our time there. Rename it "Too Forward" or something...

Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy and all the other Media Executives at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (JCZqz)

346 We've been conquered, and so the statues are coming down. ConInc knows it, they're just a version of the Vichy regime.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 11:04 AM (d04cU)
==
Yep, pretty much. It is probably the thing that will result in our next civil war, which actually is already happening. The bullets just aren't flying - yet.

Posted by: Black JEM at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (GZYu7)

347 Proper photo for post for woman in modest attire #259,

https://tinyurl.com/4kv257s4

I should not post when I have a fever.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (RSbhh)

348 Eli Whitney saved slavery and 30 more years of industrialization would have killed it.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (TzW+Y)

...

My understanding is that Whitney borrowed from other people's inventions, maybe combined them in a clever way, but what he did that the others didn't was patent it. And then sue everyone else out of existence.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (z/ifB)

349 343 Nobody understands him but Mary Todd.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)

========

Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Mary Todd > Sally Field as Mary Todd

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (GBKbO)

350 I think Lincoln was something of a proto-Trump. An outsider, who everyone in DC thought was a bumbling fool.

Of course he wasn't. He was a man, flawed, and it's relatively easy for any of us to point out those flaws. One of the telling facts of Lincoln though, is when he went to Richmond, after the fighting there stopped. The black people saw him as a savoir. a living saint who was there to change their lives forever.

He seemed to have been deeply touched by the experience, and I think if he had lived, he would have been much more committed to improving the lives of black people in this nation. We would have been better off, all of us, if he had lived.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:55 AM (dGCAG)

For me, the absolute worst POTUS was Andrew Johnson. Wilson comes close, but Johnson hurt America at least as much, if not far more. You couldn't have Wilson without Johnson.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (9cfgd)

351 Wow. Rhode Island sent 25,000 men to fight in the Civil War. That's crazy.

Posted by: moron robbie at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (cSqub)

352 I really want to see the faces of these faux (foe?) conservatives when their backs are put to a wall while sporting a blindfold and vape pen...but that means I'd be next in line.

Posted by: Stu Podaso at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (c12Xv)

353 343 I have Sandburg's 6 volume book on Lincoln. I need to dust it off. He's a complicated man.

-
Nobody understands him but Mary Todd.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here at December 01, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)

lol

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, anti-Marxist, buy ammo at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (xcxpd)

354 c.f. FDR and Woodrow Wilson. I despise both of them, but they were playing a political game, hoping that something would change the minds of Americans. Unfortunately, something turned out to be Pearl Harbor and Germany's resumption of submarine attacks on passenger and merchant ships.
Posted by: Archimedes at December 01, 2023 11:54 AM (I/Qkd)

Wilson and FDR were lying sons of bitches. I'm not going to get into how FDR got us into the war, but Wilson was, in every respect, the bad guy. The Germans attacked merchant ships because they thought we were using those ships to send munitions to their enemies.

And we were.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (dGCAG)

355 Next you'll be telling me he didn't hunt vampires.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (44ww/)

356 355 Next you'll be telling me he didn't hunt vampires.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 01, 2023 11:58 AM (44ww/)

That reminds me! Pride and Prejuidice and Zombies was available for free on ewetub. I wanted to watch it for the hot women if nothing else.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 11:59 AM (zZu0s)

357 So...bomb threats against 15 synagogues in NY this morning.
it's coming...

Posted by: Diogenes at December 01, 2023 12:00 PM (uSHSS)

358 Oh, we're doing the Civil War/War Between the States/War of Northern Aggression debate again?. How....novel.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 12:00 PM (RSbhh)

359 For me, the absolute worst POTUS was Andrew Johnson. Wilson comes close, but Johnson hurt America at least as much, if not far more. You couldn't have Wilson without Johnson.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (9cfgd)

I haven't looked into Johnson enough to know what he was, except to say, he wasn't up to the job. Was he corrupt? Evil? I don't know. But he sure as hell didn't do anything to improve the situation.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 01, 2023 12:00 PM (dGCAG)

360 My understanding is that Whitney borrowed from other people's inventions, maybe combined them in a clever way, but what he did that the others didn't was patent it. And then sue everyone else out of existence.
Posted by: TexasDan at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (z/ifB)


I suspect there's a lot of that in history.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at December 01, 2023 12:00 PM (1Z8zZ)

361 Nood.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (zZu0s)

362 For me, the absolute worst POTUS was Andrew Johnson. Wilson comes close, but Johnson hurt America at least as much, if not far more. You couldn't have Wilson without Johnson.

I'd put Barky in the running for worst. The only reason I don't give him the big prize now is that we aren't sure yet just how much damage he did, and continues to do.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (I/Qkd)

363 I could make him female, gay, and lame.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Now we're talking!! Now, Old Trek had a bunch of boring scenes of ships fighting in space, Klingnons cutting people with sword things, but maybe in this one, we could remake the ship's bar into a more queer-themed space, and spend most of our time there. Rename it "Too Forward" or something...

Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy and all the other Media Executives at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (JCZqz)

-----------

Whoopi would be perfect as a transgender male whale bartender!

Posted by: ShainS -- CISA Cognitive Security Agent at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (ZZRSz)

364 Eli Whitney saved slavery and 30 more years of industrialization would have killed it.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice - Personality Commentator at December 01, 2023


***
The peculiar thing is that he was involved in the early days of industrialization, or at least the standardized production of machine parts. In essence, he set both sides, North and South, on the paths they were to follow some sixty years later.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (J2vNu)

365 316 Manifest Destiny did not extend in just one direction. The progressive thinkers of the south, Knights of The Golden Circle, wanted to 'filibuster' the entire Caribbean shoreline and take over the slave empires there.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 01, 2023 11:51 AM (zdLoL)

Well in alternate history musing, dispense with the slavery part and imagine what the Caribbean could have been if starting 150 years ago, the US had taken control of it and nurtured it? Rather than a collection of the biggest international basket cases, the Caribbean could have been one of the greatest, most beautiful peaks of civilisation known. Instead - we have Cuba, Haiti, and Jamaica.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (i9ffA)

366 I had an idea for a new Star Trek series where the Federation was defeated by some outside force hundreds of years before, and Sol has become an oppressive system occupied by an outside force.

A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison


The concept is enough by itself that you could lay out a compelling story without involving Star Drek IP.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at December 01, 2023 12:01 PM (Bd6X8)

367 My favorite story of the war period was that of Nathan B. Forrest. His story of repentance is one that inspires the greatest of sinners. That seldom gets mentioned tho'.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at December 01, 2023 12:02 PM (MeG8a)

368 >>Wow. Rhode Island sent 25,000 men to fight in the Civil War. That's crazy.

Long before the Boston Tea Party, Rhode Islanders were attacking British ships up and down Narragansett Bay. Newport, Bristol and Providence were major shipping ports back then and RIers were a pretty rebellious lot that didn't much care for the taxes the Brits were whacking the merchants with.

But the cultural appropriators in Boston who dressed up like injuns get all the press.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 01, 2023 12:02 PM (ZLI7S)

369 I should not post when I have a fever.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 11:57 AM (RSbhh)
++++
I hope it breaks and you feel better soon, Fen.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 12:02 PM (d04cU)

370 So, they withdraw from space. Dismantle their ships and space program, and start livin' the good life.

Until...the Space muslims(or whatever) arrive!!!!
Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 11:39 AM (QzZeQ)

=======

I had an idea for a new Star Trek series where the Federation was defeated by some outside force hundreds of years before, and Sol has become an oppressive system occupied by an outside force.

A young man discovers a trove of Starfleet material in a hidden cave on a moon of Jupiter and starts a rebellion with Starfleet tech and ideals.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, celebrating anarchy and 50s B-movies with Joe Dante at December 01, 2023 11:41 AM (GBKbO)


Yeah! I might like that better.

They find old videos of Old Man Kirk giving them advice, etc. as his legacy to the future. (of course, they better hurry on that part before Shatner croaks. Oh, and forget that bullshit fall into a hole death of Kirk in that lousy ST movie).

"Star Trek: Freedom Rises" or some such title.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 01, 2023 12:02 PM (QzZeQ)

371 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 01, 2023 12:02 PM (d04cU)

Thanks.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 01, 2023 12:04 PM (RSbhh)

372 What I like most about the ACW debate is its "even though the heavens should fall" quality. Slavery is bad and had to be ended no matter what, and that determines who the good and bad guys are. Period. Kinda like South African apartheid did. But ending apartheid didn't work out so well for South Africa, did it? And, looking at the U.S., it's increasingly hard to conclude the ACW worked out well for us in terms of all its consequences too. This is no pro-slavery brief. But I think an awful lot of people would cut a great road through America to get at this particular devil. And they're so busy doing so, they've lost sight of all else. And the irony? With all this "ending whiteness" talk, we really haven't even achieved better views on race. But the "right side" hath prevailed. Thank goodness.

Posted by: moral idiots, there's a lot of them at December 01, 2023 12:05 PM (pjs7m)

373 So I looked up the claim that Thomas Jefferson fathered kids with his slaves.
Surprise, surprise, it has not been proven it was him like the left says.
Just another way to tear down the founding fathers.

Posted by: Erebus- ex-killer whale at December 01, 2023 12:09 PM (QgUWg)

374 Someone male in the Jefferson family fathered children with a slave, yes. Via DNA testing. The left immediately claims it was Thomas. The DNA doesn't prove that at all. Could be. Or could not be. But doesn't prove it.

Posted by: nckate at December 01, 2023 12:20 PM (SnxUt)

375 We are at a point in these United States where Thomas Jefferson (!) is being erased from public memory.

And everyone just shrugs.

So glad my dad passed on before he could witness any of this.

Posted by: DaisyB at December 01, 2023 12:23 PM (AbL8c)

376 People like Lowry are the ones who will tell you to 'be careful you don't trip' as you walk up the steps to the cattle cars taking you to the camps ... he and his ilk are the ones who need to be stood against a wall and shot first.

Posted by: Dr_No at December 01, 2023 12:34 PM (ayRl+)

377 I've known Rich Lowry as a hosenschlange snoggler since way back.

Posted by: Baron Maximilian von Heune at December 01, 2023 01:40 PM (Eqssc)

378 > Secession was a traitorous act that threatened to destroy the American nation,

The Declaration of Independence has entered the chat.

Posted by: Scott at December 01, 2023 03:38 PM (kmvkg)

379 Removing the statue of Che from Central Park would be a Great Idea

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at December 01, 2023 05:03 PM (wGqjj)

(Jump to top of page)






Processing 0.04, elapsed 0.0498 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0179 seconds, 388 records returned.
Page size 232 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.



MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!

Real Clear Politics
Gallup
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat