Red Chinese Real Estate Dominoes

In 2021, the Red Chinese real estate market started making world headlines when the real estate titan Evergrande Group defaulted on some of its massive debts. As that country's second-largest real estate developer, the risk of financial contagion was - and remains - high. Evergrande is deeply indebted and as Red China's property market was purposefully "cooled," it ran into serious trouble.

When Evergrande started stalling, there was some worry about the other gigantic Red Chinese real estate majors. There are none larger than Country Garden, the top dog in the country. The loss of another real estate major will compound the contagion risks in and beyond Red China, and that looks like it might be in the early stages of happening. This month, Country Garden started missing debt payments. They aren't technically in default yet - they are in the grace period - but it's a very bad sign. The Red Chinese real estate economy has been teetering for years, and the failure of a player as big as Country Garden would mark the fall of another major domino.

The potential consequences for their economy are profound. The country has long depended on real estate development to generate GDP growth. More construction, more employment, more sales for intermediate companies and manufacturers, more banking activity, more revenue, more everything. Real estate is awesome, but only on the way up. On the way down, it wreaks havoc and when it represents between a quarter and a third of your entire GDP, the consequences are profound for everything from government to individuals to the vast industrial complex. What isn't geared toward export is often geared toward real estate, at least in some fashion.

It's even worse in Red China because of the unusual way real estate works there. All land is owned by the state, and tracts are leased out to "buyers" at auctions. The leases are for 70 years and the money goes to the local government. Land finance is a primary local and provincial government funding mechanism. Unlike countries with a proper property market, a real estate downturn there has huge consequences on all government operations - including financing massive infrastructure projects, which are another enormous chunk of Red China's GDP.

Another distinctly Chinese consequence of declining real estate is how it is financed. There is a pre-sale system for new developments, where the buyer gets a mortgage and buys the house or apartment before it exists, and repayment starts immediately. The money is transferred to the builder to build the development and when finished, units are handed over to the buyers. The money is ostensibly held in trust and is to be used for construction, but there is a lot of fraud and corruption and a lot of the money goes to other things like buying more land and greasing Party members. When this breaks down, the buildings don't get finished and they become "rotten tail" projects. The buyer still has to pay the mortgage because if he doesn't, his social credit score collapses not just for himself but for his children. The buyers are left holding rights to unfinished buildings that the developer can't finish, and they must keep paying or be punished by the government. Generations' worth of a family's accumulated wealth vanishes or ends up locked up in finished properties that can't be profitably sold, putting still more downward pressure on the economy.

The banks, of course, are also hit. The Red Chinese banking and real estate sectors are deeply entwined, and cascading failure is a meaningful risk. People and businesses are caught in the crossfire, their money gone and the government unable or unwilling to bail them out. The government is probably unable - it's simply too much money.

This all matters for two reasons. First, there is a huge amount of foreign capital - including American capital - tied up in Red Chinese real estate. It is unlikely to cause a crisis over here, but it could result in major losses for those who gambled on it. Much more important, however, is that this is going to continue deeply stressing that country, adding more strain to an economy that is likely already in structural decline. Some consequences of this will be positive, because Red China will have less money to throw at things like the belt-and-road projects and it will be less able to dictate terms around the world. But compounding, all-levels economic decline also has the potential to make the country - and its ruling party and emperor - increasingly desperate.

A desperate Red China may also be a reckless Red China, and that may have extremely significant consequences both inside and outside its own neighborhood.

Posted by: Joe Mannix at 03:45 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 I love dominoes!

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:46 PM (zjgNU)

2 They're a lot better after the reworking of their recipe. Definitely an acceptable pizza now.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:46 PM (zjgNU)

3 They're a lot better after the reworking of their recipe. Definitely an acceptable pizza now.
Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:46 PM (zjgNU)
++++
I bet there's decent pizza somewhere in Red China.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (WkNQM)

4 And back after nooding.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (zjgNU)

5 Ahh so, you like Acee backee?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenko stuff at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (Xui2y)

6 What's the word for Ponzi scheme in Chinese?

Posted by: Zombie Sonny Bono at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (guGkK)

7 i was looking into throwing some money into some ai stock or other but the lists i came up with via google all seemed to be small companies in china. nuh uh.

Posted by: gnats local 678 at August 15, 2023 03:48 PM (B1FKF)

8 What's the word for Ponzi scheme in Chinese?
Posted by: Zombie Sonny Bono at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (guGkK)
++++
"Real Estate Pre-Sale System"

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:48 PM (WkNQM)

9 I bet there's decent pizza somewhere in Red China.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (WkNQM)

Okay, you've never been to China, have you?

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 03:48 PM (K+UlC)

10 I saw a video about an abandoned fishing village in China being reclaimed by nature.

Those residents may wish they never left as a fishing village has a lot of options when the country goes bust. Big cities, not so much.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:49 PM (zjgNU)

11 I dunno, I’ve been hearing about the imminent Chinese real estate collapse for years. Hell, decades. Not saying it won’t happen but I’m not about to break out the champagne and celebrate either.

Posted by: Montec at August 15, 2023 03:49 PM (3bhNa)

12 Well good for us that the US is not dependent on how well the Chinese economy is doing.

Oh, wait

Posted by: BEN ROETHLISBERGER at August 15, 2023 03:49 PM (Jk9SN)

13 7 i was looking into throwing some money into some ai stock or other but the lists i came up with via google all seemed to be small companies in china. nuh uh.
Posted by: gnats local 678
------
Wait for the collapse in AI speculation before investing. Pay attention to Pixie's tech column before investing as this years AI is last years block chain/crypto craze. Anything to take bucks from investors.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (6BfIu)

14 Kudos, Joe Mannix. You are doing a fine job today filling in for Lamont.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (Xrfse)

15 Okay, you've never been to China, have you?
Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 03:48 PM (K+UlC)
++++
Nope. But there are seriously rich parts with westerners. I'll bet it's available somewhere. Not common, but there's probably one dude who knows what's he doing.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (WkNQM)

16 Will China collapse before we do? It's a question I ask myself.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (IjPMX)

17 Historical note - depressions are always preceded by real estate bombs.

Posted by: Puddinhead at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (J7wri)

18 Control-F "Ghost Cities"

Results: 0

I think you might be missing another issue...

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (zjgNU)

19 Also, one big problem with Chinese high rises is their tendency to fall over with little warning.

https://tinyurl.com/mr44skub

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 15, 2023 03:51 PM (guGkK)

20 I know this is gonna start a flame war but I have been hearing about how the Chinese real estate market is going to collapse for over a decade now and it hasn't happened yet.

It's a red herring IMO.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 03:51 PM (QNSds)

21 For anyone that invested in china and loses money I have only laughter.

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at August 15, 2023 03:51 PM (fv27Y)

22 A desperate Red China may also be a reckless Red China, and that may have extremely significant consequences both inside and outside its own neighborhood.

Posted by: Joe Mannix

This is a euphonism for "dictatorships go to war to hide their failures".

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 03:52 PM (zbP2D)

23 I dunno, I’ve been hearing about the imminent Chinese real estate collapse for years. Hell, decades. Not saying it won’t happen but I’m not about to break out the champagne and celebrate either.
Posted by: Montec at August 15, 2023 03:49 PM (3bhNa)
++++
It's been melting down in slow motion for about four years now.

The CCP understood that the real estate market was totally out of control and posed unacceptable systemic risks. Xi then moved to take the wind out of the sails, hoping to manage the decline without a total catastrophe. This was the "Three Red Lines" policy that cracked down hard on leverage and operations for developers.

It worked. The real estate market there has slowed dramatically. But they're also facing a universal reality: there's really no such thing as a gentle deflation of a bubble or a smoothly-managed decline of an entire economic sector.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:52 PM (WkNQM)

24 Will China collapse before we do? It's a question I ask myself.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (IjPMX)

I don't think the order matters as one will quickly follow the other, whoever goes first.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:52 PM (zjgNU)

25 A desperate Red China may also be a reckless Red China, and that may have extremely significant consequences both inside and outside its own neighborhood.
........

Don't worry. The Biden admin will bail them out.
With our money.

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 03:52 PM (v0R5T)

26 This is a euphonism for "dictatorships go to war to hide their failures".
------------------
You think Biden knows this?

Posted by: Puddinhead at August 15, 2023 03:53 PM (J7wri)

27
All those yuan are gone?

Ahhhh ... too bad!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 03:53 PM (8cA5w)

28 What's the word for Ponzi scheme in Chinese?
Posted by: Zombie Sonny Bono

CCP.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 03:53 PM (zbP2D)

29 I know this is gonna start a flame war but I have been hearing about how the Chinese real estate market is going to collapse for over a decade now and it hasn't happened yet.

It's a red herring IMO.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 03:51 PM (QNSds)

This isn't like cold fusion, forever being promised.

This is watching a jenga tower getting built. It's going to fall, just it might take longer than you thought.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (zjgNU)

30 The problem with the Chinese invading Taiwan and otherwise a guiding real estate is, an hour later, they want more.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (FVME7)

31 Unreal Estate. It's what's cooking.

Posted by: BlackLock at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (lZVy/)

32 I love dominoes!
Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:46 PM (zjgNU)

Claudine Auger, 1965.

Posted by: spindrift at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (pyXMr)

33 Willowed from earlier this morning...

China is big because the firms in Atlanta want access to the Chinese markets and the port in Savannah was designed to bring in Chinese goods via giant containerships going through the Panama canal.
Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 01:51 PM (6BfIu)

Access to Chinese markets my ass. The Chinese market is a ghost, always has been.

Dumbass business people look at 1.4 billion people and think that it's an ocean of money to be easily scooped up. Except that over a billion of them are mostly illiterate peasants who barely make enough to feed themselves, live in mud huts or crumbling concrete boxes with dirt floors, have no electricity or running water and who's idea of public sanitation is to shit in the road rather than in the river.

That leaves aside the fact that the ChiCom government and Chinese companies will only do business with foreign devils long enough to reverse-engineer your products before they kick you to the curb.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (n+4am)

34 27
All those yuan are gone?
----------------
And the sky is grey

Posted by: Puddinhead at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (J7wri)

35 Nope. But there are seriously rich parts with westerners. I'll bet it's available somewhere. Not common, but there's probably one dude who knows what's he doing.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (WkNQM)

I've been to the Westernized parts right outside of Hong Kong on the mainland - its rich, yes. But the food is universally horrible. That can't even do a burger right - one guide called it "the land of almost right - but oh so wrong." It's - in a word - gross. Hong Kong food was decent when I was there, not great, but decent - mainland China? RUN!

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (K+UlC)

36 I will amend my statement. All of the COBs are doing yeoman's work whilst Chuy is getting his crocs bejewelled.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (Xrfse)

37 Red Chinese Real Estate Dominoes

----

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of commie despots.

Posted by: Just Lily at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (RLLZj)

38 Control-F "Ghost Cities"

Results: 0

I think you might be missing another issue...
Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (zjgNU)
++++
Ghost cities are just another facet of gigantic malinvestment. They're not special in terms of consequences.

The biggest issue is the banks and the local governments. The loss of land finance for local and provincial governments is a huge problem, and the marginal areas are already extremely strained. Many local governments are cutting civil service salaries and sending smaller pension payments to residents. Governments don't do that unless they're extremely cash-strapped.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (WkNQM)

39
Leal estate boom ovuh!

You go bwoke now!

You been on bubble foh yeah!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (8cA5w)

40 What is the plan to fill all those empty cities that the Chinese built in the good times?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:55 PM (IjPMX)

41 I hope Red China implodes and they go full on chubby civil war like in the 1920's and 30's. Whores, opium dens, gun running, warlords and Japs on every street corner.

Might even get some new chinese chicken dishes out of it like last time.

A man can dream.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 03:55 PM (hqgX1)

42 Been hearing for some time China real-estate is going to crash but they have to be hiding it

Posted by: Skip at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (MOY79)

43 What is the plan to fill all those empty cities that the Chinese built in the good times?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:55 PM (IjPMX)
++++
Nobody. Squatters. Tear them down. Whatever.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (WkNQM)

44 Well good for us that the US is not dependent on how well the Chinese economy is doing.

Oh, wait
Posted by: BEN ROETHLISBERGER at August 15, 2023 03:49 PM (Jk9SN)
......

I still don't get it.

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (v0R5T)

45 This is a euphonism for "dictatorships go to war to hide their failures".
------------------
You think Biden knows this?
Posted by: Puddinhead

They may know it; but, they don't acknowledge it.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (zbP2D)

46 Will China collapse before we do? It's a question I ask myself.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:50 PM (IjPMX)

I don't think the order matters as one will quickly follow the other, whoever goes first.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at August 15, 2023 03:52 PM

Spot on.....our economies are literally Siamese twins at this point. If one fails the other will be dragged down with it and the rest of the world will follow not too long after.

We are overdue for a reset and the longer the fiscal shenanigans go on the more painful the reset will be.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (QNSds)

47 anybody know of any cheese that comes out of China? There can't be pizza without cheese.

Posted by: DanMan at August 15, 2023 03:57 PM (DB6tu)

48 20 I know this is gonna start a flame war but I have been hearing about how the Chinese real estate market is going to collapse for over a decade now and it hasn't happened yet

11 I dunno, I’ve been hearing about the imminent Chinese real estate collapse for years. Hell, decades. Not saying it won’t happen but I’m not about to break out the champagne and celebrate either.

—-

Le mindest du horde.

Posted by: Montec at August 15, 2023 03:57 PM (3bhNa)

49 ITC, did you get your mail?

Posted by: Ben Had at August 15, 2023 03:58 PM (WJN9p)

50 The Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement of the University of Pennsylvania and/or The Joseph R. Biden Jr. School of Public Policy and Administration in Delaware will know what to do.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 03:59 PM (GshMh)

51 Chinese dominos? 骨牌

Posted by: Martini Farmer at August 15, 2023 03:59 PM (Q4IgG)

52 China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 03:59 PM (IjPMX)

53

SHANGHAI/SINGAPORE, Aug 15 (Reuters) - China's central bank unexpectedly cut key policy rates for the second time in three months on Tuesday, in a fresh sign that the authorities are ramping up monetary easing efforts to boost a sputtering economic recovery.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (63Dwl)

54 The poor bastards that took out mortgages only to see construction stall or stop must be pissed.

Posted by: mr tmz at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (rJ48h)

55

Imagine the rule of law in China. Consequences.

When this collapse comes there will just be the ccp with guns pointed at you and some twerp shrugging.

Posted by: Auspex at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (j4U/Z)

56 What is the plan to fill all those empty cities that the Chinese built in the good times?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

I have a Dream!

Posted by: NYC Mayor Eric Adams at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (lZVy/)

57 The wise man is the one that makes you think that he is dumb.

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (v0R5T)

58 anybody know of any cheese that comes out of China? There can't be pizza without cheese.
Posted by: DanMan

IIRC they think it's spoiled milk.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (zbP2D)

59
Whoa Oh, Domino!!!

Posted by: Economist Van Morrison at August 15, 2023 04:00 PM (QzZeQ)

60 CCP will solve the problem by killing the 20 million leading capitalist parasites in the country and taking there money after declaring them enemies of the state. Then they'll do something crazy like invade Afghanistan and kill everyone there and take their minerals.

Posted by: Smell the Glove at August 15, 2023 04:01 PM (GGja9)

61 All land is owned by the state, and tracts are leased out to "buyers" at auctions. The leases are for 70 years and the money goes to the local government. Land finance is a primary local and provincial government funding mechanism.

That system makes more sense than the current scam run in the FUSA, where people "buy" property and forever must pay annual rent. What is worse, the same government imposes an annual wealth tax on the improvements and any value of the land based on its desirability by others.

You pay X for a property, but over the years, lots of people are willing to hypothetically give you 10X for the property, regardless of your willingness to sell, the government will increase your rent by at least 10 times just due to hypothetical strangers desiring your property.

Communist China probably has a better model.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:01 PM (p8A+W)

62 It worked. The real estate market there has slowed dramatically. But they're also facing a universal reality: there's really no such thing as a gentle deflation of a bubble or a smoothly-managed decline of an entire economic sector.

Yup. The numbers are real. Everyone can see the entire cities that were built on speculation where nobody bought any of the completed properties.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:01 PM (2ocoG)

63 Yard by yard life is hard. On your knees, it's a breeze.

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:02 PM (v0R5T)

64
ITC, did you get your mail?

Posted by: Ben Had at August 15, 2023 03:58 PM (WJN9p)

As a matter of fact, I did. Came in yesterday, just hadn't had a chance to email you back. You rock.

*Snoopy dance*

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 04:02 PM (n+4am)

65 How will the demographic collapse in China affect the real estate markets?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 15, 2023 04:02 PM (YIVH2)

66 illiterate peasants who barely make enough to feed themselves, live in mud huts or crumbling concrete boxes with dirt floors, have no electricity or running water and who's idea of public sanitation is to shit in the road rather than in the river.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (n+4am)

Are we talking about Red China or Portland?

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:02 PM (hqgX1)

67 Many local governments are cutting civil service salaries and sending smaller pension payments to residents. Governments don't do that unless they're extremely cash-strapped.
Posted by: Joe Mannix

This might get the rest of the population angry with the CCP overlords, then watch out.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (zbP2D)

68 I have been told for over 20 years that the Chinese economy was unsustainable and about to crash but somehow they persevere.

Much like the long predicted Hispanic shift to Republicans, it might happen one day, but it's so far defied predictions.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (9yUzE)

69 This post is exactly what a cop would write.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (5xURv)

70 Isn't China tearing down a crapload of apartment building in cities that apparently nobody wants to live in? I recall something like 7 of them coming down at once in a YouTube video some time ago.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (Q4IgG)

71 52 China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

Invade other nations, kill the men, take the women. Duh!

Posted by: The Old Ways Return at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (sAmhv)

72 Part of the problem is the CCP finances residential real estate like the NSDAP financed volkswagens, via subscription.

The owner pays in advance of construction. If the apartment is never built, you are out of the game.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (JvZF+)

73 The poor bastards that took out mortgages only to see construction stall or stop must be pissed.

Not as much as me when I discover someone who borrowed the equivalent of a house on their college goofing off then stick me with the payments.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (p8A+W)

74 China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?

Import American feminism. The single men will feel happy and fulfilled for not having to deal with crazy.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:03 PM (2ocoG)

75 One that would have the fruit must climb the tree.

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (v0R5T)

76
illiterate peasants who barely make enough to feed themselves, live in mud huts or crumbling concrete boxes with dirt floors, have no electricity or running water and who's idea of public sanitation is to shit in the road rather than in the river.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (n+4am)

Are we talking about Red China or Portland?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:02 PM (hqgX1)

Yes.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (n+4am)

77 Spot on.....our economies are literally Siamese twins at this point. If one fails the other will be dragged down with it and the rest of the world will follow not too long after.

We are overdue for a reset and the longer the fiscal shenanigans go on the more painful the reset will be.
Posted by: Mister Scott
-------
China is more dependent now on exports than ever is what is going on. What might cause real difficulty for the US is that so much of the supply chain of manufacturing precursors is still in China for critical goods. Imports to China will mainly affect agricultural goods and some tech goodies that the Chinese cannot yet make.

The US might hurt but the Chinese face collapse which is why doing something stupid like trying to invade Taiwan might do Xi in.

In any given era, most leaders of countries got there by networking among cronies and interest groups, not by their particular brilliance or wisdom. That includes Xi and his economic platform was always ga ga typical of communist regimes.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (6BfIu)

78 And yes, absolutely - the rumors of China's real estate death have been greatly exaggerated. In part, this is because of the CCP's own actions to try to let the market down easy. This has been partially successful, but the problems are only starting to shake out. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is on local/provincial government finance and, by extension, infrastructure finance. Much depends on real estate in China.

And for the first time in a long time, China's economy is likely declining. The "Little Tigers" in SE Asia - not to mention Mexico, India and even parts of the US - are hurting their export-driven economy at a time when it can ill afford declines because of the real estate and COVID-related problems.

The outcomes scrawled on China's economic wheel of fortune are increasingly strained.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (WkNQM)

79 I wonder if all the gold in Taiwan will help?

China's gonna China in 2024.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (5xURv)

80 Sorry didn't read all the content

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (JvZF+)

81 ANARCHY!

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (2HWEq)

82
Do to the COVID lockdown and practically instant delivery in big cities like Tokyo,

Domino's Pizza has really broken thru to the big time.

Their selections there are different than here.

What seems to be popular is a pizza where there are 4 separate types of pizza on each quarter.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (QzZeQ)

83 Smell theglove, the Chinese already have all the mineral rights. No need to invade.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (WJN9p)

84 A desperate Red China may also be a reckless Red China, and that may have extremely significant consequences both inside and outside its own neighborhood.

-
Meanwhile, Drooling Joe is desperate to change the subject.

P.S.

Benny Johnson
@bennyjohnson
WATCH: Biden once again SMIRKS then runs away from reporters asking about the rising death toll of Americans from the Maui wildfires— quickly zips away in helicopter for a ONE WEEK vacation in Lake Tahoe

https://tinyurl.com/4c3nfvhf
-
Hardest working man in DC.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (FVME7)

85 Ugh

do = due

Stupid brain!

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (QzZeQ)

86 I posted this yesterday, but I think this guy is one of the better commenters. This link and the preceding posts deal with deflation in China, but he has excellent posts on Russia as well.

One nice thing is that he provides an introduction and a summary for each post, if you don't have time to listen to all the data, graphs, and explanations. They are marked on the time line.

https://tinyurl.com/93wvzfwy

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (eOEVl)

87 To get ahead you must give it.

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (v0R5T)

88 I bet there's decent pizza somewhere in Red China.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (WkNQM)

Okay, you've never been to China, have you?
=
If it survived covid - place around the corner from the Hotel Monroe in Suzhou. Neapolitan style. Run by an Italian guy at the time.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (UVyKP)

89
Really, Krebs? Low rent pidgin Chinese? Tou should be ashamed!

* thinks it over *

Nope, I'm good ...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (8cA5w)

90 Invade other nations, kill the men, take the women. Duh!
Posted by: The Old Ways Return
-----------
They were importing brides from human traffickers operating in SE Asia countries. With COVID, and real estate crashes, that has probably declined as well.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (6BfIu)

91 65
Demand will slacken as all the silver medalists of the one child policy race won’t need housing.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (UXVMR)

92 So if China is broke, will they have to sell some of our politicians back to us?

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM (9yUzE)

93 How will the demographic collapse in China affect the real estate markets?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

It doesn't have to involve a demographic collapse.
When you open a factory in China you provide housing for the workers.
Guess what happens when you close the factory (which western businesses have been doing)?
Yeah, homeless high-tech workers.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 04:06 PM (zbP2D)

94 Nobody. Squatters. Tear them down. Whatever.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 03:56 PM (WkNQM)

Make work. This is what socialist/communist regimes do to keep the populace busy and not thinking about their liberty or their rights as human beings. Make them labor on huge projects all poorly designed and done for no one at all.

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:06 PM (K+UlC)

95 So if China is broke, will they have to sell some of our politicians back to us?
Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM

No deal, we have a no return policy. Even with the receipts.

Posted by: Minnfidel at August 15, 2023 04:06 PM (wQvIv)

96 I have never played Red Chinese Real Estate dominoes before. I have played Chickenfoot.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:06 PM (iH7eX)

97 China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

So it'd be an act of charity to ship them our trannies?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (FVME7)

98 Invade other nations, kill the men, take the women. Duh!

I would be totally willing to put the tatted up, danger haired, obese, woke shrews and their XY chromosome impersonators onto as many cargo ships as necessary to make up for the "female" deficit in China.

These communists would feel right at home, and this may begin to compensate for China dumping fentanyl on us.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (p8A+W)

99 So if China is broke, will they have to sell some of our politicians back to us?

What if we don't want them?

Although it would be fricking hilarious if Trump, through a chain of intermediaries, bought the Biden family.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (2ocoG)

100 9
‘ Okay, you've never been to China, have you?’
I have. American food restaurants exist.’

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (UXVMR)

101 Huh. Last week, there were some of those "Wow! The Chinese spend tons of money on infrastructure to help their economy! Why can't we be as awesome as the Chinese here?" stories popping up in sidebars as "news" items. Wonder who was pushing those?

Posted by: red speck at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (0Id0S)

102 So if China is broke, will they have to sell some of our politicians back to us?
Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at August 15, 2023 04:05 PM

No deal, we have a no return policy. Even with the receipts.
Posted by: Minnfidel

You owned them four owa! You go now.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (iH7eX)

103 anybody know of any cheese that comes out of China? There can't be pizza without cheese.
Posted by: DanMan

Macau was settled by Portuguese and brought a bunch Euro food over. The southwestern part has local cheese, as well as the Tibetan region. Think yak/goat milk. And the mongolian border obviously has a bunch as well.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (IG4Id)

104 You been fourclosa, you brok now.

Posted by: Minnfidel at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (wQvIv)

105 https://tinyurl.com/4c3nfvhf
-
Hardest working man in DC.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:04 PM (FVME7)

——-

The Budget moving van in the background is Hunter’s stash of coke.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (2HWEq)

106 ... That system makes more sense than the current scam run in the FUSA, where people "buy" property and forever must pay annual rent. What is worse, the same government imposes an annual wealth tax on the improvements and any value of the land based on its desirability by others. ...
Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:01 PM (p8A+W)
++++
It's changing. As of today, Red China does not have property taxes for exactly this reason: you don't own the land, the state does. Your lease is up in 70 years. Nobody knows what will actually happen when those 70 years pass, because it hasn't happened yet. It's going to be a difficult problem to solve, but it ain't my problem.

But the Chinese government is running out of money and it's piloting property tax schemes. For right now, it's only second or more properties (doesn't apply to primary residences), but it will spread. Then they will have the worst of both worlds. It will probably happen within a few years as the Party works the bugs out of the property taxing scheme and determines how hard it will have crack down on opposition to it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (WkNQM)

107 Something like estimated 15-20 percent youth unemployment isn't going to help matters.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (6BfIu)

108 I have never played Red Chinese Real Estate dominoes before. I have played Chickenfoot.
Posted by: rickb223

This is more like liar's poker, played with dollar bills.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (FVME7)

109 Access to Chinese markets my ass. The Chinese market is a ghost, always has been.

Dumbass business people look at 1.4 billion people and think that it's an ocean of money to be easily scooped up. Except that over a billion of them are mostly illiterate peasants who barely make enough to feed themselves, live in mud huts or crumbling concrete boxes with dirt floors, have no electricity or running water and who's idea of public sanitation is to shit in the road rather than in the river.

That leaves aside the fact that the ChiCom government and Chinese companies will only do business with foreign devils long enough to reverse-engineer your products before they kick you to the curb.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 03:54 PM (n+4am)
==
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. For their 1.25 to 1.3 million people just faced their first deflationary month (if stats are to be believed). The math was never supported. And now they are starting to have to make up the difference, which they don't have.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (UVyKP)

110 I have never played dominoes.

Posted by: redridinghood at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (NpAcC)

111 Really, Krebs? Low rent pidgin Chinese? Tou should be ashamed!

* thinks it over *

Nope, I'm good ...
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot

*snort

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:08 PM (iH7eX)

112 96 >>>I have never played Red Chinese Real Estate dominoes before. I have played Chickenfoot.

Is that anything like mahjong?

Posted by: red speck at August 15, 2023 04:09 PM (0Id0S)

113 They can sit on mined materials (chips, EVs) and our pharmaceutical needs.

That concerns me.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 04:10 PM (GshMh)

114 Happiness isn't an outside job, it's an inside job. IYKWIM

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:10 PM (v0R5T)

115
I find it interesting (in the Chinese Curse sort of way) that China generally has cycles where they slaughter 10s of millions of their own people about every 50 years or so. The last big one was the Great Leap Forward, where Mao starved at least 50M people to death. Either on purpose or by accident, depending on who you believe.

In any case, it appears that they are somewhat overdue for a vigorous bloodletting, historically speaking.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 04:10 PM (n+4am)

116 Ding ding ding! We have a winner. For their 1.25 to 1.3 million people just faced their first deflationary month (if stats are to be believed). The math was never supported. And now they are starting to have to make up the difference, which they don't have.
Posted by: Black JEM

I learned way back when in the 80's that statistics for communist countries were largely exercises in imaginary fantasies. What was good was increased to incredible and that which was bad was either converted to good or not reported at all.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (6BfIu)

117 So it'd be an act of charity to ship them our trannies?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM

Beijing Needs Ladyboys...this Fall on Disney+

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (Wnv9h)

118 We use to play Chinese Checkers with a game board my grandfather made and marbles

Posted by: Skip at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (MOY79)

119 Happiness isn't an outside job, it's an inside job. IYKWIM
Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies

Ahhhhh so. Happiness at end of job.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (iH7eX)

120 Is that anything like mahjong?
Posted by: red speck at August 15, 2023 04:09 PM (0Id0S)
++++
No. Chickenfoot has way less ritual involved.

Similar chance of being stabbed while adjudicating disagreements, though.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (WkNQM)

121 The real estate market there has slowed dramatically. But they're also facing a universal reality: there's really no such thing as a gentle deflation of a bubble or a smoothly-managed decline of an entire economic sector.

Even worse, for the average Chinese, that RE investment was as close as they got to a retirement system. I would hate to have been a factory slave for the CCP for the last 50 years, only to find that my only option in retirement is starvation.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (eOEVl)

122 Macau was settled by Portuguese and brought a bunch Euro food over. The southwestern part has local cheese, as well as the Tibetan region. Think yak/goat milk. And the mongolian border obviously has a bunch as well.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM

The one thing I vividly remember about the border crossing between Macau and China during a port visit there in 1987 was that every other person going into China at the border check point had a huge clear garbage bag filled with toilet paper on their backs. They went and bought the TP while they were in Hong Kong and were bringing back into China.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 04:12 PM (QNSds)

123 Chinese checkers?

Posted by: Yuan Valdez at August 15, 2023 04:12 PM (EbyjP)

124 WWJCD.

What would Jackie Chan do?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at August 15, 2023 04:12 PM (lf83v)

125 The worst part of the Chinese real estate market is that the construction standards are awful. Every bad practice you have ever heard of, and a few more are used in Chinese construction. The call it “Tofu Dreg”.
New building are falling apart as the new owners are moving in. Sometimes it’s a hole in the wall or the floor. Sometimes it’s the building exterior falling off.
Frankly, with the exception of historical buildings, there are few buildings over 50 years old. The Chinese have this thing about making their homes match them, no matter how many walls they have to knock out.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:12 PM (RHGPo)

126 Happiness isn't an outside job, it's an inside job. IYKWIM
Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:10 PM

"One swallow does not a Summer make....but it does make you popular."

- Kamala's Other Fortune Cookies

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (Wnv9h)

127 I find it interesting (in the Chinese Curse sort of way) that China generally has cycles where they slaughter 10s of millions of their own people about every 50 years or so. The last big one was the Great Leap Forward, where Mao starved at least 50M people to death. Either on purpose or by accident, depending on who you believe.

In any case, it appears that they are somewhat overdue for a vigorous bloodletting, historically speaking.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur

They have 1.4 billion people. They could lose the entire US population and not blink.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (iH7eX)

128 They can sit on mined materials (chips, EVs) and our pharmaceutical needs.

That concerns me.

Yup. There's actual movement happening on pulling chip and other production back out of China (although a lot of it won't be on line for 5 or more years), but nothing on pharmaceuticals. That's worrying.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (2ocoG)

129 Thanks to an additional 50 million or so, it might be ours too.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (GshMh)

130 115
With 100s of millions living so close together with such a precarious food supply I’m surprised it’s gone as long as it has.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (UXVMR)

131 Even worse, for the average Chinese, that RE investment was as close as they got to a retirement system. I would hate to have been a factory slave for the CCP for the last 50 years, only to find that my only option in retirement is starvation.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (eOEVl)
++++
Yup. Or the parents of them, who put all of their money into the place. An oddity of the Chinese reality is how much generational wealth is available to go into real estate. They are thrifty as a people and have a high savings rate, which is one of the ways real estate got so out of control from a price standpoint.

With the one-child policy, each couple has four grandparents pouring accumulated savings into getting them a house. At the individual level, truly staggering amounts of accumulated capital has been dumped into real estate, since it is often a prerequisite to get married and it's central to wealth management.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:14 PM (WkNQM)

132 I have. American food restaurants exist.’
Posted by: Dr. Claw at August 15, 2023 04:07 PM (UXVMR)

As of 1990 - that's all they did - exist. And that was the heyday of Westernism in the rich provinces outside of Hong Kong on the mainland. I've been there more than a few times and the food was inedible by western standards.

If you wanted to eat something nice, everyone went to Jimmy's Kitchen in Kowloon or, maybe the casinos over on Macau - not great but not horrible. Nothing over the border into the Mainland was edible - nothing.

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:14 PM (K+UlC)

133 WWJCD.

What would Jackie Chan do?
Posted by: Adirondack

Pimp for the CCP.
Next question.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 04:14 PM (zbP2D)

134 In the future when they look back at this time, they will determine that the Democrats decision to demonize and make an enemy of Russia because they didn't like that Trump won as the end of the West.

China and Russia are natural enemies and they share a huge lightly defended border. The Chinese have a huge woman deficit, and the Russians have a woman surplus (even if it is a much smaller population).

The West should have embraced Russia and used it as a Chinese offset, but instead we have driven them together. This will prove to have been very foolish.

Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (Jk9SN)

135 The Chinese have this thing about making their homes match them, no matter how many walls they have to knock out.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:12 PM (RHGPo)

Chinese Drywall has been very good to me!

Posted by: John Morgan, Fat democrat Super Lawyer at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (hqgX1)

136 China has 1.4 billion people, whats 50 million give or take to them?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (IjPMX)

137 China is more dependent now on exports than ever is what is going on. What might cause real difficulty for the US is that so much of the supply chain of manufacturing precursors is still in China for critical goods.
==
That chain is getting replaced more by the day. Apple just announced they are leaving China. Investment is massively returning to NA. We will have some crazy disruptions on some things. And inflation, on top of the stupid stuff the FBJ administration has done. We don't have enough employees. We need to at a minimum tighten up SS disability eligibility - which Obama tweaked to hide his poor economy to lower the unemployment rate. While torpedoing the labor participation rate.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (UVyKP)

138 113 They can sit on mined materials (chips, EVs) and our pharmaceutical needs.

That concerns me.
Posted by: L - Practice
---------
Most of the minerals are available elsewhere--the West simply is caught up with the eco cult that believes that pollution in third world countries is virtuous but a crime in the West.

Most of the chips are produced on machines made elsewhere. There might be a couple of cycles where you don't get a newest fastest computer or a new Iphone but that would probably be fixed in two years or so partially by recycling chips and then new factories.

Pharmaceutical precursors shipped to India is what might be the most problematic in the short run. In the long run, less so as once again the equipment and knowledge in the West exists to recreate production lines for these. Take a couple a years but for those dependent on those drugs will definitely cause unnecessary pain and suffering in the West.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (6BfIu)

139 huge clear garbage bag filled with toilet paper

I’ve heard the same thing about Cuba.
Nobody just hangs a roll of TP in the bathroom.
This applies to government venues as well.

God help you if you need to go at a government event

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (RHGPo)

140
What would Jackie Chan do?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot

Fuck that guy in particular

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 04:16 PM (8cA5w)

141 Pimp for the CCP.
Next question.
__________

You're right. I saw that piece of crap movie he made for Netflix the other night. The other CCP pimp was John Cena.

Pure propaganda for the Chinese military.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at August 15, 2023 04:16 PM (lf83v)

142 Its interesting, in a true capitalist system the economy can easily handle companies screwing up and collapsing. In fact, it is part of the "creative destruction" of capitalism.

But in our mixed, "too big to fail system", which we share with China, any time a megacorp gets in trouble it requires the government to save it...by hurting the whole rest of the economy.

This is I suspect related to the core problem of socialism - you cannot get and use enough information to correctly decide how to slate all the resources in a modern economy. Capitalism does it because it farms out most of the decision making to individuals who actually do know what they want and need.

Posted by: 18-1 at August 15, 2023 04:16 PM (lc5cP)

143 With 100s of millions living so close together with such a precarious food supply I’m surprised it’s gone as long as it has.
Posted by: Dr. Claw

That has only last so long because if it ever had a heartbeat, they eat it.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:16 PM (iH7eX)

144 Yup. There's actual movement happening on pulling chip and other production back out of China (although a lot of it won't be on line for 5 or more years), but nothing on pharmaceuticals. That's worrying.
Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (2ocoG)

Good thing Western medicine isn't totally focused on pharmaceutical solutions and we have plenty of locally sourced production for what we need.

Oh, wait

Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2023 04:16 PM (Jk9SN)

145 What would Jackie Chan do?

Blow the chairman?

Posted by: Jackie Chan's favorite kneepads at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (lc5cP)

146 Sounds like China may soon be calling some of their Belt and Road suckas to collect.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (ssESX)

147 136. ... whats 50 million give or take to them?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM

American.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (GshMh)

148 China has 1.4 billion people, whats 50 million give or take to them?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

What's 400 million if it's old people?

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (iH7eX)

149 In the long run, less so as once again the equipment and knowledge in the West exists to recreate production lines for these.

I was following along until I got to that statement.

You grossly inflate the capabilities of this generation and their education and work ethic.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (p8A+W)

150 China has 1.4 billion people, whats 50 million give or take to them?

It's tempting to think that way, but the Chinese of today are much less willing to accept such losses. In particular, this is because the loss of one male child is often the end of the family line.

China already faces demographic collapse. The last thing they want to do is take another big chunk out of the younger segment of the population.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (eOEVl)

151
A company I once worked for bought containers of furniture from China, when they landed the seals were broken, so an inventory of contents had to be made.

The fuckers had opened them back up to recover and steal maybe a couple hundred screws and washers before shipping them to us. Maybe fifty bucks worth.

Don't underestimate the sheer industriousness of their malice.

Posted by: Auspex at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (j4U/Z)

152 China has 1.4 billion people, whats 50 million give or take to them?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (IjPMX)
++++
If you're talking about war, it's a lot. A whole lot.

China has an enormous population, but not many kids comparatively. It's the fastest-aging population in the world. Throwing them away on a pointless military exercise that doesn't net them either wealth or women - preferably both - is akin to eating your seed grain.

Not to mention that most Chinese have one child. This isn't due to the one-child policy anymore (that was rolled back in the teens), but due to various other factors including cost and hyper-urbanization. When you tell someone that you want to throw away the life of his *one* child on a pointless war, it tends to breed discontent on the home front.

I don't think war is off the table by any means (if anything, it's likely), but that doesn't mean that war is costless for the Chinese population or its government.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:19 PM (WkNQM)

153 Its interesting, in a true capitalist system the economy can easily handle companies screwing up and collapsing. In fact, it is part of the "creative destruction" of capitalism.

But in our mixed, "too big to fail system", which we share with China, any time a megacorp gets in trouble it requires the government to save it...by hurting the whole rest of the economy.

It doesn't require it. It's just easier to grift that way.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:19 PM (iH7eX)

154 China generally has cycles where they slaughter 10s of millions of their own people about every 50 years or so.

-
Killing 10s of millions of your own people can solve a lot of problems. Take our blue third world shit hole cities, please!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:19 PM (FVME7)

155 Commie trash.

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:19 PM (33nmr)

156 No jobs, no wives for eligible males and no where to live!

...but enough about the US, this thread is about China.

Posted by: Blake - semi lurker at large at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (2YtOq)

157 Sounds like China may soon be calling some of their Belt and Road suckas to collect.

I suspect the sucka will turn out to be China.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (eOEVl)

158 Apple just announced they are leaving China. Investment is massively returning to NA.

.. Apple seems to be hot for India and Brazil.
I would expect them to assemble some iPhones still in China for “local” sales”, but assemble in India allows them to sell in India. Brazil makes them a better citizen in South America.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (RHGPo)

159 Thousands of military-age chinese have crossed our borders since bai-din stole the election.

Posted by: Eromero at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (NxC5+)

160 A big issue is if Chinese owners of US real estate exit the market.

Blackrock, Blackstone and Goldman all have huge positions in CHN real estate. Last I checked.

Posted by: Thesokorus at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (P0plo)

161
Sounds like China may soon be calling some of their Belt and Road suckas to collect.
Posted by: Chairman LMAO at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (ssESX)

Which is really funny, because BandR was designed so that the African/SW Asian nations would go bankrupt, not Red China. Then, the ChiComs would write off the debts in exchange for resources and more importantly, military bases. No one gave any thought that it would be the ChiComs who went bankrupt.

Oops.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (n+4am)

162 Someone needs to make a movie about the Tiannamen Massacre.

Somebody with billions of dollars and FU money.

The Great Humiliation Part 2.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (lf83v)

163 Know this sounds insane, but what is the difference between our Police State and the Chinese police state at this moment?

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (33nmr)

164 China has 1.4 billion people
......

That's a whole lot of noodles. Where do they poop?

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (v0R5T)

165 I suspect the sucka will turn out to be China.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (eOEVl)
++++
Yup. China is going to a learn a lesson that prior empires learned and forgot. In order for it to work, you have to have boots on the ground. Venezuela defaulted on a lot of its BRI obligations. So did Sri Lanka. If the Chinese want to be paid, they're going to have to occupy those places. They can't.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (WkNQM)

166 I remember my boss about 8 years ago saying that India and China had gotten too expensive. He saw VietNam as the new haven for investment.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (RHGPo)

167 What would Jackie Chan do?

Blow the chairman?
Posted by: Jackie Chan's favorite kneepads at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (lc5cP)

Probably.

Jackie Chan's turned into a real running dog.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (QzZeQ)

168 That's a whole lot of noodles. Where do they poop?
Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:21 PM (v0R5T)

You ever wonder how drywall - DRYWALL - is cheaper to get from halfway around the planet?

Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (Jk9SN)

169 They have 1.4 billion people. They could lose the entire US population and not blink.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:13 PM (iH7eX)
==
They HAD 1.4 Billion. And I think Zeihan is being too generous to think they will only drop to around 700M in the next 30 years. The pit is deep and wide. They have already started to lose their first US population and another one will be right on their heels. They are going to lose 2 US populations. And they will more than blink.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (UVyKP)

170 Me so hawny.

Posted by: 18 year-old Chinese dude at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (Xrfse)

171 148. What's 400 million if it's old people?
Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM

Likely smart since they made it that far.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (GshMh)

172 Gee I hope this doesn't hurt the CCP's Roads and Bridges project that the US State Department admires so.

Posted by: Regular joe at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (nnp+f)

173 I was following along until I got to that statement.

You grossly inflate the capabilities of this generation and their education and work ethic.
Posted by: Reuben Hick

Not every country in the West is the US. A lot of those chemical plants were actually in the EU.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (6BfIu)

174 Apple just announced they are leaving China. Investment is massively returning to NA.

.. Apple seems to be hot for India and Brazil.
I would expect them to assemble some iPhones still in China for “local” sales”, but assemble in India allows them to sell in India. Brazil makes them a better citizen in South America.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM (RHGPo)
++++
Apple was among the first big players to fully Sino-ize their production, and is among the last to start diversifying in a meaningful way. Apple is following on this, not leading.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (WkNQM)

175 162. Too many CCP board members in the movie studios for that. Even a conservative billionaire would find it impossible to find distribution

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (33nmr)

176 China has an enormous population, but not many kids comparatively. It's the fastest-aging population in the world. Throwing them away on a pointless military exercise that doesn't net them either wealth or women - preferably both - is akin to eating your seed grain.

Communists aren't known for effective or successful long-term planning though.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (2ocoG)

177 The great culling approaches.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:23 PM (BIG3/)

178 174. Chinese pulled the plug on Little Boys for Tim Cook, so he moved over to India

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:24 PM (33nmr)

179 what is the difference between our Police State and the Chinese police state at this moment?

some say "Toe mah Toe"

vs others who say "Toe may Toe"

Xi shits his pants less than Biden, so there is that.

Posted by: The Walking Dude at August 15, 2023 04:24 PM (cCxiu)

180 And India's population is now slightly greater than China's.

Posted by: L - Practice makes perfect. They know their enemy at August 15, 2023 04:24 PM (GshMh)

181 .. Apple seems to be hot for India and Brazil.
I would expect them to assemble some iPhones still in China for “local” sales”, but assemble in India allows them to sell in India. Brazil makes them a better citizen in South America.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:20 PM

If apple really does leave China I phones will no longer be sold there. The Chinese government will take over the factories and workers and make the "iphones" themselves. They will not let apple have a presence in China if they pull out of the country and move their factories elsewhere.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 04:24 PM (QNSds)

182 What would Jackie Chan do?
Blow the chairman?
Posted by: Jackie Chan's favorite kneepads at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (lc5cP)

Charlie Chan > Jackie Chan

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:25 PM (hqgX1)

183 China is heavily socially conservative.
Young Chinese men learn about sex from Japanese porn.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:25 PM (RHGPo)

184 I know in my life, that the commies 5 year plans have always worked out swimmingly.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:25 PM (IjPMX)

185 Go into Home Depot. The best plywood comes from Vietnam.

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 04:25 PM (8erNz)

186 And now, believe it or don't!

Townhall.com
@townhallcom
Joe Biden claims that he watched a bridge in Pittsburgh collapse in January 2022.
"I watched that bridge collapse! I got there, and saw it collapse!"

-
SPOILER ALERT! He's lying. The bridge collapsed before he got there. You know, like his credibility.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:26 PM (FVME7)

187 "Know this sounds insane, but what is the difference between our Police State and the Chinese police state at this moment"

The Chinese surveillance state puts ours to shame. They have almost zero privacy. They get a social credit score, and if that gets too low, privileges are taken away. The US is far behind, but catching up.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at August 15, 2023 04:26 PM (MeG8a)

188 167 What would Jackie Chan do?

Blow the chairman?
Posted by: Jackie Chan's favorite kneepads at August 15, 2023 04:17 PM (lc5cP)

Probably.

Jackie Chan's turned into a real running dog.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (QzZeQ)
----
He old man.

Posted by: Confucious Say at August 15, 2023 04:26 PM (ssESX)

189 China has 1.4 billion people, whats 50 million give or take to them?

It's tempting to think that way, but the Chinese of today are much less willing to accept such losses. In particular, this is because the loss of one male child is often the end of the family line.

China already faces demographic collapse. The last thing they want to do is take another big chunk out of the younger segment of the population.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (eOEVl)
==
It will be interesting to watch the next Chinese civil war. In modern times with modern media.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (UVyKP)

190 Yeah lets all go to Vietnam, another commie shithole with no elections. Do they still give tours on where our GI's were tortured? Or Does Disney own that now?

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (33nmr)

191 @townhallcom
Joe Biden claims that he watched a bridge in Pittsburgh collapse in January 2022.
"I watched that bridge collapse! I got there, and saw it collapse!"
-
SPOILER ALERT! He's lying. The bridge collapsed before he got there. You know, like his credibility.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:26 PM (FVME7)
++++
His demented fabulism strikes again.

What was this in reference to?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (WkNQM)

192 Apple seems to be hot for India and Brazil.
I would expect them to assemble some iPhones still in China for “local” sales”, but assemble in India allows them to sell in India. Brazil makes them a better citizen in South America.

They're actually moving production to Vietnam too, which isn't ideal (Xi has made noises about Vietnam really belonging to China) but I do enjoy the idea of US companies making stuff in the literal shadow of Hanoi's giant statue of John Kerry, Vietnam War Hero.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (2ocoG)

193 Confucius say: Always poop downstream.

Posted by: Kamalama's Fortune Cookies at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (v0R5T)

194 I could see anyone who started talking about LGBTQ+ in China quickly be sent to a reeducation center

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (RHGPo)

195 His demented fabulism strikes again.

What was this in reference to?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (WkNQM)

He's always been a liar.

And oddly enough it works for him.

Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (Jk9SN)

196 Pharmaceutical precursors shipped to India is what might be the most problematic in the short run. In the long run, less so as once again the equipment and knowledge in the West exists to recreate production lines for these. Take a couple a years but for those dependent on those drugs will definitely cause unnecessary pain and suffering in the West.
Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:15 PM (6BfIu)
==
How quick can we stand Puerto Rico back up as a primary pharma manufacturing site?

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (UVyKP)

197 6 What's the word for Ponzi scheme in Chinese?
Posted by: Zombie Sonny Bono at August 15, 2023 03:47 PM (guGkK)

---

banana daiquiri

Posted by: Michael Corleone at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (wzAuc)

198 China is heavily socially conservative.
Young Chinese men learn about sex from Japanese porn.

Are they sexually aroused by squid and octopus?

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (eOEVl)

199 Did you all see that KJP posted a Tweet, "when I ran for President...."

So yeah, she's running Biden's Twitter account

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (wbBkh)

200 It's tempting to think that way, but the Chinese of today are much less willing to accept such losses. In particular, this is because the loss of one male child is often the end of the family line.

When you are communist, it doesn't matter to the government what you think.

Kinda like ours.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (iH7eX)

201 India will get nothing until they bow to the Globalists on the Muslim Issue.

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:29 PM (33nmr)

202 Are they sexually aroused by squid and octopus?

That's just that one journalist.

Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:29 PM (2ocoG)

203 Not every country in the West is the US. A lot of those chemical plants were actually in the EU.

That is a different problem: No industrial energy available for factories and manufacturing.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:29 PM (p8A+W)

204 Xi has made noises about Vietnam really belonging to China

A few years after the US left VietNam, the Chinese tried to invade. The Vietnamese beat the silly.

The last Chinese victory was Tiananmen Square

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:30 PM (RHGPo)

205 If the Chinese want to be paid, they're going to have to occupy those places. They can't.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (WkNQM)

So - they have huge disadvantages. A huge land mass and, not much taming of that landmass in real infrastructure that works (think dams, roads, transportation of heavy vehicles) - so movement of troops to ports and then being able to deployment that invasion force at sea - all done in closed in straits and/or in small sea lanes versus open oceans - so easy to bottle up and close that down. Add to that the history of sloppy communist Chinese engineering and workmanship - this is not happening, a disaster in the making. And they know it - that is why they are using money warfare instead of boots - just easier.

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:30 PM (K+UlC)

206 When you are communist, it doesn't matter to the government what you think.

Of course it matters. They keep tabs on what the population thinks; if they didn't, they wouldn't bother.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (eOEVl)

207 I remember my boss about 8 years ago saying that India and China had gotten too expensive. He saw VietNam as the new haven for investment.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:22 PM (RHGPo)
==
He was not wrong. Vietnam is more capitalist than we are.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (UVyKP)

208 Chinese are good people. I was always hoping they would rise up with a leader, and overthrow the old CCP men.

Technology made that impossible. They are on par with our corrupt FBI

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (33nmr)

209 " ... Hanoi's giant statue of John Kerry, Vietnam War Hero."

is that a real thing?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying liars have been lying for decades at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (vbuLV)

210 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (WkNQM)

211 Communists aren't known for effective or successful long-term planning though.
Posted by: Ian S.

5 year plans are nothing to the Chinese.

Posted by: SFGoth at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (KAi1n)

212 His demented fabulism strikes again.

What was this in reference to?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:27 PM (WkNQM)

He's always been a liar.

And oddly enough it works for him.
Posted by: blaster at August 15, 2023 04:28 PM (Jk9SN)

He's never made it work.

When he was running for Preezy and stealing speeches from some Limey commie, the Press actually did its job and he failed instantly.

Biden's lies only work when the Press lets them work.

We're seeing more about them now because the Dims/Press want Biden out.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (QzZeQ)

213 207. Please. Captalist? they do not have elections and are still run by their Own Communist party

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (33nmr)

214 Are the same companies that are going to get hosed on commercial real estate here also going to hosed there? Cause that will be bad.

Posted by: Joey Sausage at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (eheVn)

215 Heavy flooding in China has often been cited as proof of the loss of the mandate of heaven.

Guess what's happening now.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (eOEVl)

216 202 Are they sexually aroused by squid and octopus?

That's just that one journalist.
Posted by: Ian S. at August 15, 2023 04:29 PM (2ocoG)
-----
Yeah, can you believe that guy?!

Posted by: Kurt Eichenwald in disguise at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (ssESX)

217 What was this in reference to?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

He's promoting an infrastructure bill.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (FVME7)

218 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (WkNQM)
.......

She's already got plenty of real estate.

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:33 PM (v0R5T)

219 How quick can we stand Puerto Rico back up as a primary pharma manufacturing site?
Posted by: Black JEM
-------
My guess is two to three years if the precursor chemicals are there.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:33 PM (6BfIu)

220 We're seeing more about them now because the Dims/Press want Biden out.

I disagree, we are seeing more of Biden's lies because it doesn't change anything.

They used to piss in your face and convince you its raining, now they just piss in your face and don't care what you think.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:33 PM (p8A+W)

221 So - they have huge disadvantages. A huge land mass and, not much taming of that landmass in real infrastructure that works (think dams, roads, transportation of heavy vehicles) - so movement of troops to ports and then being able to deployment that invasion force at sea - all done in closed in straits and/or in small sea lanes versus open oceans - so easy to bottle up and close that down. ...
Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:30 PM (K+UlC)
++++
Their internal transportation is better than it ever has been.

But China's geography sucks. It always has. Not enough water in the north, too little arable land in the west, etc. Not enough food production. It's why despite its vast size and huge population (virtually always, throughout its history), it's so rarely been unified and so often been externally controlled in a piecemeal fashion after it fractures yet again into city-states. It's too big to conquer, but also not really worth having.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (WkNQM)

222 Vietnam is just another China waiting to happen down the road a few years. Commies gonna Commie.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (IjPMX)

223

Young Chinese men learn about sex from Japanese porn.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:25 PM (RHGPo)

That explains a lot.

Posted by: Auspex at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (j4U/Z)

224 How quick can we stand Puerto Rico back up as a primary pharma manufacturing site?
Posted by: Black JEM

Hurricane Alley is not the best place to put that.

Posted by: SFGoth at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (KAi1n)

225 I used to hear that India had an impenetrable bureaucracy that wasn’t prone to bribes.
This made setting up in India a long and arduous process. Normally a few bribes would grease the skids but not in India.
The example I was given was a venture to see garments. They got a building, the sewing machines, but it took over a year to get power.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (RHGPo)

226 At least Kerry served, Jane Fonda is the one I still hate.

Kronkite was theone my WW2 vet father hated. Thought he was a traitor

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (33nmr)

227 In the long run, less so as once again the equipment and knowledge in the West exists to recreate production lines for these.

I was following along until I got to that statement.

You grossly inflate the capabilities of this generation and their education and work ethic.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:18 PM (p8A+W)

Agree. BUT if those younger generations get hungry and cold enough, their work ethic may change.

There's a lot of suffering ahead in the USA's future.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 04:35 PM (BdMk6)

228 I wonder how much $ it would take to gear a plant up to make one, and ONLY one chemical formulation, that would result in say, the production of Ampicillin or some common Blood Pressure pill.

Especially if they're of the Off Patent variety.

Who cares if a 90 day supply is on the $12 generic list at Wal-Mart? They sell a bazillion such pills a week, they're still gonna make bank.

Proven formulas, long ago approved by the FDA. Only big hurdle for them to clear would be approval of the plant itself for sanitation and such.

The Big Pharma companies want to sell their Brand Name stuff that's still under patent. Let 'em. Meanwhile, let's see some entrepreneurs step in and fill the marketplace voids.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 15, 2023 04:35 PM (e6UQI)

229 I used to hear that India had an impenetrable bureaucracy that wasn’t prone to bribes.
This made setting up in India a long and arduous process. Normally a few bribes would grease the skids but not in India.
The example I was given was a venture to see garments. They got a building, the sewing machines, but it took over a year to get power.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (RHGPo)
++++
India is deeply corrupt, but the corruption is more distributed and involves a lot of criminal syndicates. Want power? Best pay off the power mafia.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (WkNQM)

230 India will get nothing until they bow to the Globalists on the Muslim Issue.
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:29 PM (33nmr)
==
Which they will not do. Hindus have their own fanatical side. They hate muslems with a passion.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (UVyKP)

231 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM

OK that is just wrong......

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (QNSds)

232 214 Are the same companies that are going to get hosed on commercial real estate here also going to hosed there? Cause that will be bad.
Posted by: Joey Sausage
----------
The big hedge/investment funds might be. Check and see if you have exposure to REIT or some other real estate investment funds. Might have to dig into SEC filings to know what assets these hold.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (6BfIu)

233 224 How quick can we stand Puerto Rico back up as a primary pharma manufacturing site?
Posted by: Black JEM

Hurricane Alley is not the best place to put that.

.. more importantly, the power systems in Puerto Rico are awful. For years, all power came from one power plant, that was the site of every demonstration for every imaginable cause.

Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (RHGPo)

234 Really. At least China does not pretend to be a utopia, like our corrupt Gubmint does

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (33nmr)

235 Agree. BUT if those younger generations get hungry and cold enough, their work ethic may change.

Recent empirical evidence out of Maui suggests that when they get hungry enough, they whip out guns and steal from whoever has what they want.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:37 PM (p8A+W)

236 Please. Captalist? they do not have elections and are still run by their Own Communist party
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:32 PM (33nmr)
==
I didn't say democratic.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:38 PM (UVyKP)

237 Which they will not do. Hindus have their own fanatical side. They hate muslems with a passion.

Given their history, it's easy to understand why. There's a reason the mountains between Afghanistan and India are called the Hindu Kush (Hindu Slayer).

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:38 PM (eOEVl)

238 229. Bribes in india? how is that different than D.C, Chicago, or Wall Street?

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:38 PM (33nmr)

239 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (WkNQM)

She looks more like the new school marm.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 04:38 PM (BdMk6)

240 The example I was given was a venture to see garments. They got a building, the sewing machines, but it took over a year to get power.
Posted by: SMOD at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM (RHGPo)

I remember reading somewhere recently that since the Brits left in 1948, that David Patel and the boys have not laid down one new mile of railroad track in all of India.

Things just move slow there I guess.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (hqgX1)

241 228 I wonder how much $ it would take to gear a plant up to make one, and ONLY one chemical formulation, that would result in say, the production of Ampicillin or some common Blood Pressure pill.

Especially if they're of the Off Patent variety.

Who cares if a 90 day supply is on the $12 generic list at Wal-Mart? They sell a bazillion such pills a week, they're still gonna make bank.

Proven formulas, long ago approved by the FDA. Only big hurdle for them to clear would be approval of the plant itself for sanitation and such.

The Big Pharma companies want to sell their Brand Name stuff that's still under patent. Let 'em. Meanwhile, let's see some entrepreneurs step in and fill the marketplace voids.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim
-------
Jim, it is not so much the investments as the processes are well known but getting the precursor chemicals and then protective tariffs to prevent Indian pill mills from destroying the newly onshored pill mfg.

No one will invest if they cannot make a profit long term.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (6BfIu)

242 The big hedge/investment funds might be. Check and see if you have exposure to REIT or some other real estate investment funds. Might have to dig into SEC filings to know what assets these hold.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:36 PM (6BfIu)

Will do. It's interesting.

Posted by: Joey Sausage at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (eheVn)

243 >>Their internal transportation is better than it ever has been.

Their Ganges River projects, including their poor dam engineering and construction methods, are the end of any real troop mobilization or transportation happening in the huge 600 plus square mile valley below - and everyone knows it. Not buying the Chinese praise of infrastructure.

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (K+UlC)

244 237. India was forced by the globalists years ago, to make room for Pakistan and Bangladesh on the east, to appease UN Memebership, I believe

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:40 PM (33nmr)

245 This attractive redhead wearing glasses and non slutty attire is rather amazed that anyone thinks that a woman wearing peekaboo breast shirts for photos is actually knowledgeable about the Chinese real estate market.

https://tinyurl.com/an7vn4jw

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 04:40 PM (Keyt1)

246 Tim Cook is the Ted Kennedy of the Apple Dynasty.

Posted by: Regular joe at August 15, 2023 04:40 PM (nnp+f)

247 Recent empirical evidence out of Maui suggests that when they get hungry enough, they whip out guns and steal from whoever has what they want.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:37 PM (p8A+W)

So Kihei has already been invaded. Good to know.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 04:41 PM (BdMk6)

248 Their Ganges River projects, including their poor dam engineering and construction methods, are the end of any real troop mobilization or transportation happening in the huge 600 plus square mile valley below - and everyone knows it. Not buying the Chinese praise of infrastructure.
Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (K+UlC)
++++
Yup. The number of poor-quality dams is staggering, and it fucks with transport. Their internal transportation is better than it's ever been, but it's often not very good and they've done themselves few favors in various parts of the country.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:41 PM (WkNQM)

249 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:

Would bang!!! Would bang!!!

Posted by: 18 year-old Chinese dude at August 15, 2023 04:42 PM (Xrfse)

250 186 And now, believe it or don't!

Townhall.com
@townhallcom
Joe Biden claims that he watched a bridge in Pittsburgh collapse in January 2022.
"I watched that bridge collapse! I got there, and saw it collapse!"

-
SPOILER ALERT! He's lying. The bridge collapsed before he got there. You know, like his credibility.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

He's not lying. I was there. I saw it all.

Posted by: Brian Williams seen things at August 15, 2023 04:42 PM (sAmhv)

251 MirelaMonte
@MirelaMonte
At this point [in Maui], the government is just the middleman, working on behalf of the corporations & their Billionaire Owners.
Insurance Companies are now invoking zoning infractions on the land, to deny people’s claims. You won’t believe this!

-
Why wouldn't I believe that?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:42 PM (FVME7)

252 Time for a Hot Chinese Women's Army marching video?

https://tinyurl.com/2p9d5btu

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:43 PM (v0R5T)

253 236. with all due respect, Capitalism is a term for free markets. Markets are not free without a democratic gubmint.

Nephew went to Hanoi and said it was a slum. Dogs hanging upside down in the windows etc...

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:43 PM (33nmr)

254 it is not so much the investments as the processes are well known but getting the precursor chemicals and then protective tariffs to prevent Indian pill mills from destroying the newly onshored pill mfg.

Wouldn't this be a natural industry to extend into Mexico?

Their politicians are pretty cheap, and clearly they have the construction industry down pat. Regulations would be competitive to India and the gigs could go to Mexicans.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:43 PM (p8A+W)

255 Jim, it is not so much the investments as the processes are well known but getting the precursor chemicals and then protective tariffs to prevent Indian pill mills from destroying the newly onshored pill mfg.

No one will invest if they cannot make a profit long term.
Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (6BfIu)
==
And Indian pharma is not the most reliable manufacturer of that product.

Posted by: Black JEM at August 15, 2023 04:43 PM (UVyKP)

256 This attractive redhead wearing glasses and non slutty attire is rather amazed that anyone thinks that a woman wearing peekaboo breast shirts for photos is actually knowledgeable about the Chinese real estate market.

https://tinyurl.com/an7vn4jw
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 04:40 PM (Keyt1)
++++
Heh. She looks seriously unamused.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:44 PM (WkNQM)

257 So Gordon Chang is right?

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at August 15, 2023 04:44 PM (FxH7T)

258 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:

Would bang!!! Would bang!!!
Posted by: 18 year-old Chinese dude at August 15, 2023 04:42 PM (Xrfse)

Is it in yet?

Posted by: busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde at August 15, 2023 04:44 PM (v0R5T)

259 Kronkite was theone my WW2 vet father hated. Thought he was a traitor
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:34 PM

Cronkite gave news dicks the go ahead to opine on news and it opened the floodgate. They all want to be activists for the left.

Posted by: Minnfidel at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (wQvIv)

260 Okay, what did you reprobates do with Ace???

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (PCK5/)

261 251. Forgive me, but twitter says Maui votes 95% Dem.

One party Dem rule is the reason for the weak response

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (33nmr)

262 Even worse, for the average Chinese, that RE investment was as close as they got to a retirement system. I would hate to have been a factory slave for the CCP for the last 50 years, only to find that my only option in retirement is starvation.
Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:11 PM (eOEVl)

Retirement as a concept, even in the West, is relatively new. The 401(k) is less than 50 years old. Defined Benefit plans go back to the founding of the USA, but they weren't widely adopted until the 20th century (IIRC). Most people alive today don't realize this.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (/iWhV)

263 https://tinyurl.com/an7vn4jw
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 04:40 PM (Keyt1)
++++
Heh. She looks seriously unamused.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

Seriously unamused.

Posted by: SFGoth at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (KAi1n)

264 The buyers are left holding rights to unfinished buildings that the developer can't finish, and they must keep paying or be punished by the government. Generations' worth of a family's accumulated wealth vanishes or ends up locked up in finished properties that can't be profitably sold, putting still more downward pressure on the economy.'

---------

Sounds like a great new "Democrat" Communist Party plank.

Posted by: ShainS -- Misinflation, Disinflation, & Malinflation Researcher at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (Y/MO8)

265 Governor of Hawaii is a Pennsylvania white Boy ER doctor, who does not have a clue

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (33nmr)

266 Maui will be a disaster and nothing will touch President Mudpants.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (TZ75n)

267 I wonder how much $ it would take to gear a plant up to make one, and ONLY one chemical formulation, that would result in say, the production of Ampicillin or some common Blood Pressure pill.
Especially if they're of the Off Patent variety.
Who cares if a 90 day supply is on the $12 generic list at Wal-Mart? They sell a bazillion such pills a week, they're still gonna make bank.
Proven formulas, long ago approved by the FDA. Only big hurdle for them to clear would be approval of the plant itself for sanitation and such...
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim
Jim, it is not so much the investments as the processes are well known but getting the precursor chemicals and then protective tariffs to prevent Indian pill mills from destroying the newly onshored pill mfg.
No one will invest if they cannot make a profit long term.
Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:39 PM (6BfIu)

My sis is a medicinal chemist.

Given what she's told me about the quality control and formulation issues, IMHO you wouldn't want them making PEZ let alone the drugs you actually take.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (QzZeQ)

268 remember reading somewhere recently that since the Brits left in 1948, that David Patel and the boys have not laid down one new mile of railroad track in all of India.

Things just move slow there I guess.

-

I just recently learned that you are supposed to excuse all of that by calling it "island time" and then looking away quickly before you make any type of connection.

Posted by: Have you figured out that the gay flag is a p3d0 flag? at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (qs1Py)

269 244 237. India was forced by the globalists years ago, to make room for Pakistan and Bangladesh on the east, to appease UN Memebership, I believe
Posted by: Jonah
------
Actually, the Brits did not care and was anxious to get its people out before the violence began and Gandhi himself did not want the partition--but soon to be Gandhi successor in the Congress Party (Nehru) and Muslims leaders did and thus the violence began. Muslims did not want to be submerged in Hindu political control and Hindis hated the Muslims since the Moghul Empire days.

Globalists forget that people are not potatoes and places have all sorts of hatreds, social class issues, prejudice, and past histories between ethnic groups. There is no kumbaya when Empires collapse--even in the US as I suspect it will.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (6BfIu)

270 Okay, what did you reprobates do with Ace???

I think he had to make a quick trip to Endor and settle some family business.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (Bd6X8)

271 Ciampino's Rescue kitties

There's another more extensive photo update #145 at the link.
Take a look if interested. Make sure to click on
"See Older Updates" as well if it's your first time.
https://is.gd/WQ5JcT

ALSO LIVE STREAMING!! - Biscuits' BABIES ON WEBCAM
Now most nights as well

https://www.twitch.tv/kittenwatch

Posted by: Cia,pino - today is Ferragosto at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (qfLjt)

272 Time for a Hot Chinese Women's Army marching video?

https://tinyurl.com/2p9d5btu
Posted by: wth

Why you here wearing funny red suit? You CCP, right?
You go get pregnant now.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (zbP2D)

273 We're from the government and we're here to help!

T R U T H P O L E
@Truthpole
Apparently Maui Police Officers blockaded the escape and evacuation routes 🤬
The police officer said
"I'm under order to keep them here"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (FVME7)

274 You want meds??? Go to Mexico. Bring cash…

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:47 PM (PCK5/)

275 My sis is a medicinal chemist.

Given what she's told me about the quality control and formulation issues, IMHO you wouldn't want them making PEZ let alone the drugs you actually take.
Posted by: naturalfake
-----------
Not surprised. Just recently the FDA had to step in when some heart medications made in India were grossly unsafe to give to patients.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:47 PM (6BfIu)

276 Is it in yet?

I don't get it.

Posted by: 18 year-old Chinese dude at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (Xrfse)

277 251 MirelaMonte
@MirelaMonte
At this point [in Maui], the government is just the middleman, working on behalf of the corporations & their Billionaire Owners.
Insurance Companies are now invoking zoning infractions on the land, to deny people’s claims. You won’t believe this!

-
Why wouldn't I believe that?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Strangely enough, when you vote for fascist policies, you get fascism. Weird.

Posted by: Puddleglum at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (sAmhv)

278 Insurance Companies are now invoking zoning infractions on the land, to deny people’s claims. You won’t believe this!
-

I sorta assumed that was why the fires were set and the warning alerts turned off in the first place.

Posted by: Have you figured out that the gay flag is a p3d0 flag? at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (qs1Py)

279 Maui will be a disaster and nothing will touch President Mudpants.

I sometimes wish that not every problem becomes a federal problem. If Leviathan is satisfied that Hawaii will remain a faithful producer of four electoral votes, two communist senators and two communist representatives, then it will remain just "local news".

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (p8A+W)

280 The Mrs and I owned a condo in China for a few years and sold it a decade or so ago. Thank God for that.

Posted by: The Walking Dude at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (cCxiu)

281 210 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (WkNQM)

--

Looks more like a "hot for teacher" scenario. With a New Testament on her desk. Seminary.

Posted by: SloPitch Whiffer at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (wzAuc)

282 it's often not very good and they've done themselves few favors in various parts of the country.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:41 PM (WkNQM)

I think we agree that an initial mobilization of troops is all the CCP is going to get before they get bottled up pretty quick on reinforcements and supplies - both in the interior below the Ganges and Yellow rivers and in the tight sea straights they will have to deploy in and out of.

I can't imagine that the CCP hasn't war gamed this out - that is why the party pursues a strategy of spies, money and pressure to get what they want - invasion of the US or any allies in the Pacific outright? Nope. Might not be needed, you see...

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 04:48 PM (K+UlC)

283 Retirement as a concept, even in the West, is relatively new. The 401(k) is less than 50 years old. Defined Benefit plans go back to the founding of the USA, but they weren't widely adopted until the 20th century (IIRC). Most people alive today don't realize this.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (/iWhV)

Concur. Most people in the past worked until death or lived with their family while old and unable to work. Sometimes old ways are best.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (hqgX1)

284 Idea: All that American property that is being sold to Chinese buyers could be leased to them instead, maybe.

Posted by: KT at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (rrtZS)

285 Apparently Maui Police Officers blockaded the escape and evacuation routes 🤬
The police officer said
"I'm under order to keep them here"
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at August 15, 2023 04:46 PM (FVME7)

Who gave the order?

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (TZ75n)

286 We're from the government and we're here to help!

T R U T H P O L E
@Truthpole
Apparently Maui Police Officers blockaded the escape and evacuation routes 🤬
The police officer said
"I'm under order to keep them here"

Pretty sure that preventing someone from leaving a life threatening situation is at least manslaughter if not murder.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (Bd6X8)

287 Forgive me, but twitter says Maui votes 95% Dem.

One party Dem rule is the reason for the weak response
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (33nmr)

Yup. It's why my givesafuck meter is reading 0 for the residents.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (BdMk6)

288 I don't even like . Food.

Posted by: Minnfidel at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (wQvIv)

289 "Strangely enough, when you vote for fascist policies, you get fascism. Weird. "

I know, right?
Who knew?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying liars have been lying for decades at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (vbuLV)

290 Retirement as a concept, even in the West, is relatively new. The 401(k) is less than 50 years old. Defined Benefit plans go back to the founding of the USA, but they weren't widely adopted until the 20th century (IIRC). Most people alive today don't realize this.

When we were a primarily agricultural society with many kids to care for you and a relatively short lifespan after the end of work, that wasn't such a problem.

Of course, you also didn't expect to go on cruises to Hawaii, so expectations have changed a bit.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM (eOEVl)

291 I sorta assumed that was why the fires were set and the warning alerts turned off in the first place.

I thought it was to prevent people from stuffing their children down storm drains.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:50 PM (p8A+W)

292 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:

Would bang!!! Would bang!!!
Posted by: 18 year-old Chinese dude at August 15, 2023 04:42 PM (Xrfse)

Is it in yet?
Posted by: busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde

In? I'm done. I got mine, you get yours.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 15, 2023 04:50 PM (iH7eX)

293 After Churchill lost in 1945 to the Socialists, Atlee and his comrades freed India.

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:50 PM (33nmr)

294 "China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?"

They could go old school and turn them into eunuchs to serve in the government.

Posted by: FeatherBlade at August 15, 2023 04:51 PM (ou9hh)

295 Globalists forget that people are not potatoes

With certain well-known exceptions from CNN.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 15, 2023 04:51 PM (eOEVl)

296 Joe Man is wrote an excellent piece. (Golf clap) Now, where's my topless Cheryl Hines pics?

Posted by: Regular joe at August 15, 2023 04:51 PM (nnp+f)

297 Jonah, the same thing happened in Palestine. The Arabs on the ground did not accept the UN partition and wanted all the Jews out or dead. Then the Jews kicked their asses including sovereign armies from Arab powers trying to assist their Palestinian proxies.

Empires often work by playing one group against another as do most autocracies. The Empire or despot (see Saddam Hussein as example) provides the coercive muscle to make people tow the line even as their policies cause increasing hate between groups. Sooner or later the Empire blows up and the groups take out vengeance on each other. Sometimes it burns out like in Lebanon after about thirty years or so or Northern Ireland. But it can revive like in Yugoslavia when the money runs out and groups that didn't like each other much was corralled into one big unhappy family of a nation.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (6BfIu)

298 But Boobettes aside,

Congratulations to you, JoeMannix, for becoming a COB and thanks to all the folks filling in for Ace for writing interesting and informative articles..

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (Keyt1)

299 Ah, the annuity vs lump payout debate…

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (PCK5/)

300 It was three short years ago that we watched the same people permanently shut down 50%+ of private businesses so that Amazon and Walmart and other multinational corporations could exclusively sell their goods and food from China.

That's probably not related to what's happening in Maui, though.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (OeAlt)

301 This whole Maui thing stinks to high heaven.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (TZ75n)

302 Hear state of Hawaii is going to use eminent Domain on Maui, to battle the scum Private Equity firms from NY, on buying down burned to make more elitist condos

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (33nmr)

303 Yup. The number of poor-quality dams is staggering, and it fucks with transport. Their internal transportation is better than it's ever been, but it's often not very good

I recall being in Guangzhou some years back and rolling along a new freeway. Went back four years later and there were gangs of guys out there with picks busting it up to fix it. Not so much as a Bobcat with a hammer attachment in sight.

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 04:53 PM (8erNz)

304 295 Globalists forget that people are not potatoes

With certain well-known exceptions from CNN.
Posted by: Archimedes
---------
NPCs aka Globalists are pretty much of a hive mind, the vast majority of the populations of the world, not so much.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:54 PM (6BfIu)

305 I hear the fires started either by electrical lines, or absentee landlord farms that had not been kept clean from brush etc..

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:54 PM (33nmr)

306 But Boobettes aside,

Congratulations to you, JoeMannix, for becoming a COB and thanks to all the folks filling in for Ace for writing interesting and informative articles..
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 04:52 PM (Keyt1)
++++
Thanks, Fen!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:54 PM (WkNQM)

307 If we invade China I intend to impregnate a few of those women in the red uniforms and white boots.
All's fair in love and war, amirite?

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (v0R5T)

308 Old Soviet saying… nothing is cheaper than a human life..

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (PCK5/)

309 I hear the fires started either by electrical lines, or absentee landlord farms that had not been kept clean from brush etc..
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:54 PM (33nmr)
++++
Electrical lines is the dominant theory that I've seen, but it's just that. The investigation has barely begun.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (WkNQM)

310 Maui will be a disaster and nothing will touch President Mudpants.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (TZ75n)

--------

His vote totals in 2024 from Hawaii -- even if he's dead -- will be double the population.

Posted by: ShainS -- Misinflation, Disinflation, & Malinflation Researcher at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (Y/MO8)

311 Good news JoeMannix on the promotion. Hope the Dental plan came in time to save your teeth as you have to been grinding them a lot lately over the insanity in our country.

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (6BfIu)

312 I hear the fires started either by electrical lines, or absentee landlord farms that had not been kept clean from brush etc..
Posted by: Jonah

Who the fuck knows at this point. Nobody is truthful about anything.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (TZ75n)

313 Globalists forget that people are not potatoes

They liken us to diseased livestock. And we know the WEF's thoughts on the value of livestock.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (p8A+W)

314 293 After Churchill lost in 1945 to the Socialists, Atlee and his comrades freed India

And gave Stalin the Rolls-Royce Nene.

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (8erNz)

315 I hear the fires started either by electrical lines, or absentee landlord farms that had not been kept clean from brush etc..
Posted by: Jonah

--

That's the rumor the government is spreading so that they have someone to blame for their negligence.

Unless there has been some new discovery since last Wednesday, the commander general of the National Guard said no one knows what started them.

Which means it's probably arson, because IIRC that's how 85%+ of wildfires start.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (OeAlt)

316 one of the worst globalists in this country is Gov Kemp of Gerorgia. A frequent visitor to the Nazi World Forum in Davos.

Kemp owned many subsidiaries dealing in China. Reason he hates Trump so much

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (33nmr)

317 Good news JoeMannix on the promotion. Hope the Dental plan came in time to save your teeth as you have to been grinding them a lot lately over the insanity in our country.
Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (6BfIu)
++++
Nobody gets dental. They just sent me a recommendation for a do-it-yourself laminating kit for my cardboard membership card.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (WkNQM)

318 Their Ganges River projects, including their poor dam engineering and construction methods, are the end of any real troop mobilization or transportation happening in the huge 600 plus square mile valley below - and everyone knows it.
Posted by: Boswell

Poor quality, of course, doesn't stop there. My son was voluntold to tour a brand new Chinese destroyer with a small group of other sailors during a 'friendship' harbor call. Of course, most spaces were off limits but even then, with the areas he was able to inspect, he said the welds were sub-standard, many hatches and p-way doors couldn't possibly be made watertight, and tolerances were way too large for the task at hand.

And that was for one of their newest ships.

Posted by: Tonypete at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (EadwG)

319 If we invade China I intend to impregnate a few of those women in the red uniforms and white boots.
All's fair in love and war, amirite?

China's population is already in enough of a decline that they're now encouraging all women who can to have a babies. So you'd be doing the bidding of the CCP.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (Bd6X8)

320 210 This busty, bespectacled strawberry blonde in a slutty approximation of office attire is glad she's not invested in Chinese real estate:
https://is.gd/BWqmIm
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:31 PM (WkNQM)

Our multi-talented cob-logger!

Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (x5hic)

321
My guess is two to three years if the precursor chemicals are there.
Posted by: whig

“I only work with the blue drums with the bee on them."

-- Jesse from "Breaking Bad"

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (8cA5w)

322 315. Any big abortion facilities in Maui? Hand of God

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (33nmr)

323 Joe Mannix, thanks for a most informative post!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (YqDXo)

324 Globalists forget that people are not potatoes

They are beetroots!

Posted by: Radio Davos at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (v0R5T)

325 George W. Bush and Dick Cheney put Fauci in charge of the US bioweapons program.
_Robert Kennedy Jr.
zerohedge

Posted by: Braenyard at August 15, 2023 04:57 PM (AbYHm)

326 Which means it's probably arson, because IIRC that's how 85%+ of wildfires start.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (OeAlt)
++++
That seems high. When I lived in fire country (CO), lightning strikes were the most common cause, followed by electric lines going down, followed by negligence (cigarette butts, unattended/poorly-doused campfires, etc.). Arson (or any kind of deliberate fire-setting) was exceedingly rare.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (WkNQM)

327 Invade China? Wuhan Flu 2 will stop that

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (33nmr)

328 48 20 I know this is gonna start a flame war but I have been hearing about how the Chinese real estate market is going to collapse for over a decade now and it hasn't happened yet

11 I dunno, I’ve been hearing about the imminent Chinese real estate collapse for years. Hell, decades. Not saying it won’t happen but I’m not about to break out the champagne and celebrate either.

This is exactly what my MIL says about Social Security not being solvent.

" My uncle in the 1970's always said that but I still get my check every month. "

Posted by: Just Lily at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (RLLZj)

329 I feel like I've been reading about Chy-na's ever-immanent but never-quite actualizing economic collapse for 15+ years now.

But I'm sure it's all going to get worse from here.

Posted by: The Guy Who Always Says It's Gonna Get Worse at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (PWI4f)

330 325. Good for Kennedy

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (33nmr)

331 308 Old Soviet saying… nothing is cheaper than a human life..
Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (PCK5/)

They said it out loud?

Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (x5hic)

332 Is anybody else worried that Maui doesn't have enough Spam? Is FEMA on that? Do I need a sarc tag?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 04:59 PM (IjPMX)

333
Nobody gets dental. They just sent me a recommendation for a do-it-yourself laminating kit for my cardboard membership card.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

It's a true pity that Chiclets Gum is no longer available. They made for some great ersatz veneers!

-- Ben Affleck

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 05:00 PM (8cA5w)

334 Hear state of Hawaii is going to use eminent Domain on Maui, to battle the scum Private Equity firms from NY, on buying down burned to make more elitist condos

From what I hear, the wealthy weren't effected. If true, it would seem to reason that putting the property in the hands of people who could afford to keep it up will help prevent a future reöccurance.

But looking at the weather models, quite a few stars had to align to make this inferno happen.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 05:00 PM (p8A+W)

335 Is anybody else worried that Maui doesn't have enough Spam?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

We need common sense Spam control!!!

Posted by: Tonypete at August 15, 2023 05:00 PM (EadwG)

336 318. Gange River Project? LOL. That was how the book "World War Z" started.

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:00 PM (33nmr)

337 Is anybody else worried that Maui doesn't have enough Spam? Is FEMA on that? Do I need a sarc tag?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

It isn't sarc if it is the truth.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (zbP2D)

338 Lahaina, I have to admit, was a pretty little town. But it was also Maui's biggest tourist trap. Never like it as much as the other towns around. Up-country is much more pleasant and interesting. Even Kihei was more desirable than Lahaina.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (BdMk6)

339 335. Will Oprah eat Spam?

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (33nmr)

340 Is anybody else worried that Maui doesn't have enough Spam? Is FEMA on that? Do I need a sarc tag?

***WARNING: Horribly insensitive joke ahead. :WARNING***

Meh, they've got plenty of barbecued long pig on the ground right now.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (Bd6X8)

341 Almost 85% of wildfires in the United States are caused by humans, according to the National Park Service. Fires that are sparked this way can result accidentally from leaving campfires unattended, burning debris, using various kinds of equipment and discarding cigarettes improperly. Intentional acts of arson are another source of human-caused wildfires, the agency says.

---

Sorry, 85% are caused by humans. I'm not sure of the breakdown from there. I'd wager 30-50%.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (OeAlt)

342 Nobody gets dental. They just sent me a recommendation for a do-it-yourself laminating kit for my cardboard membership card.
Posted by: Joe Mannix
-------
Second look at joining SEIU and staging a work action?

Posted by: whig at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (6BfIu)

343 There are numerous regions of Asia with population decline but plenty of seriously hot women.

Proposed: we will come in do the fucking your dudes won't, we promise to shower and not otherwise smell farang, you ensure 18 years of education for the product

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (8erNz)

344 331 308 Old Soviet saying… nothing is cheaper than a human life..
Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (PCK5/)

They said it out loud?
Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (x5hic)

Only once..

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (PCK5/)

345 334. Elitist wealthy dems do not make anything better, Reuben

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (33nmr)

346 Is anybody else worried that Maui doesn't have enough Spam?
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby

We need common sense Spam control!!!
Posted by: Tonypete at August 15, 2023 05:00 PM (EadwG)
----
This is what happens when you don't replenish the Strategic Spam Reserve in times of plenty...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (YIVH2)

347 Will Oprah eat Spam?
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (33nmr)
.......

Oprah IS Spam

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (v0R5T)

348 And that was for one of their newest ships.

Posted by: Tonypete at August 15, 2023 04:56 PM (EadwG)

I was on a western province China mainland tour bus in the early 90's and the bus rail handle came off in my hand when I held it and the seats were all sunken in, poorly designed and installed. This was their richest province - for western tourists - imagine out in the hinter lands - disaster.

Posted by: Boswell at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (K+UlC)

349 Presdent Bidum shoulds doo somthing abouts the Real estate markit on maui Now !!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, VT at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (hSa/7)

350 Smithsonian says arson is 21%

"Rice reports that debris burning starts the most human-caused fires, at 29 percent, with arson the cause of 21 percent of fires."

Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (OeAlt)

351 343. Not many lady Bic Razors though.

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (33nmr)

352
Meh, they've got plenty of barbecued long pig on the ground right now.
Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310

I don't get it.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (8cA5w)

353 Meh, they've got plenty of barbecued long pig on the ground right now.
Posted by: Blanco Basura

I'm sure jokes are had about long pig koloa...

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (8erNz)

354 That seems high. When I lived in fire country (CO), lightning strikes were the most common cause, followed by electric lines going down, followed by negligence (cigarette butts, unattended/poorly-doused campfires, etc.). Arson (or any kind of deliberate fire-setting) was exceedingly rare.

Over my 29 years on this planet the vast majority of wildfires I have seen originated from cigarettes improperly disposed.

On more than one occasion I noticed a fire starting from a recently discarded cigarette and was able to stop the fire from spreading with water carried on my bicycle.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (p8A+W)

355 Retirement as a concept, even in the West, is relatively new. The 401(k) is less than 50 years old. Defined Benefit plans go back to the founding of the USA, but they weren't widely adopted until the 20th century (IIRC). Most people alive today don't realize this.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at August 15, 2023 04:45 PM (/iWhV)

Concur. Most people in the past worked until death or lived with their family while old and unable to work. Sometimes old ways are best.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 15, 2023 04:49 PM

Back in the day.....most people were able to actually put money in the bank for their retirement and it would grow and increase in value with compounding interest. It would not be eaten up by inflation as it is today.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (QNSds)

356 Long pig is Hawaiian slang for whitey

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (8erNz)

357 If we invade China I intend to impregnate a few of those women in the red uniforms and white boots.
All's fair in love and war, amirite?

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 04:55 PM (v0R5T)

--------

Out: The Rape of Nanking.
The Rape of Hot Ting.

Posted by: ShainS -- Misinflation, Disinflation, & Malinflation Researcher at August 15, 2023 05:04 PM (Y/MO8)

358 Will Oprah eat Spam?
Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:01 PM (33nmr)
.......

Oprah IS Spam
Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM

Just the fat jelly part.

Posted by: Minnfidel at August 15, 2023 05:05 PM (wQvIv)

359 Is anybody old enough, to remember the Spam line from Dawn of the Dead?

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:05 PM (33nmr)

360 Sorry, 85% are caused by humans. I'm not sure of the breakdown from there. I'd wager 30-50%.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 05:02 PM (OeAlt)

Well if you include the number of fires that are caused because Sierra Club et Al refuse to allow proper clean up and management of various areas....85% is a plausible number.

I live in a forest. I know this to be true.

Posted by: Just Lily at August 15, 2023 05:05 PM (RLLZj)

361 Attention everyone:

Fartclam.

That is all.

Posted by: ballistic at August 15, 2023 05:05 PM (oXNqT)

362 Isn't Opra like 2/3rds Spam?

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 15, 2023 05:05 PM (IjPMX)

363 That seems high. When I lived in fire country (CO), lightning strikes were the most common cause, followed by electric lines going down, followed by negligence (cigarette butts, unattended/poorly-doused campfires, etc.). Arson (or any kind of deliberate fire-setting) was exceedingly rare.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (WkNQM)
---
Yeah, we like to blame a lot of things on human activity, but Mother Nature was setting wildfires long before humans were around to bitch about it.

Of course, some of them could be mitigated by better land management policies, which *is* a function of human activity.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (YIVH2)

364 I don't get it.

That's the problem with dark humor. It's kind of like food under socialism.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (Bd6X8)

365
On more than one occasion I noticed a fire starting from a recently discarded cigarette and was able to stop the fire from spreading with water carried on my bicycle.
Posted by: Reuben

And you can't tell that those fires were not intentional arson (the perps saw Stalag 17, after all).

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (zbP2D)

366 I wonder if the “ haole” talk will be muted for a little bit??

Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (PCK5/)

367 To the people of Hawaii.........

Elections have Consequences !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Franklin Stien at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (hSa/7)

368 Haole Hash

Posted by: wth at August 15, 2023 05:07 PM (v0R5T)

369 Most realistate is shell buildings..that why there are so many metropolitan ghost towns. Investors never really finish and furnish the building units...they hold to sell later. Also due to superstition about buying another souls home. All a little weird. BUT if the market tanks China will tank.

Posted by: Esperman at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (nNH2y)

370 --or Lobster Thermidor aux crevettes with a Mornay sauce served in a Provençale manner with shallots and aubergines, garnished with truffle pâté, brandy and a fried egg on top and Spam.

Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (x5hic)

371 367 To the people of Hawaii.........

Elections have Consequences !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Franklin Stien at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (hSa/7)

The Democrats are the ultimate haoles.

Posted by: Just Lily at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (RLLZj)

372
If you don't wanna see Trump in chains you ain't black.

Posted by: Anonymous Dementia Patient in Delaware at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (enJYY)

373 Haole Hash

Scrappleface may become an actual recipe.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (Bd6X8)

374 Went to Octoberfest in Munich once. Drunk as I was, noticed at least 10 young women there, that had Human sweater legs, and pits hairier than Doctor J. Kicker is that they were pretty faced

Posted by: Jonah at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (33nmr)

375 noodmovies

Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 05:08 PM (x5hic)

376 Didn't they elect a "Haole" as Governor ??????????

Posted by: Franklin Stien at August 15, 2023 05:09 PM (y9QBQ)

377 Smithsonian says 21% is arson.

https://tinyurl.com/yjreammw

Posted by: Moron Robbie - The EPA has determined US has cooled since 1948 at August 15, 2023 05:09 PM (oZ23Y)

378 Went to Octoberfest in Munich once. Drunk as I was, noticed at least 10 young women there, that had Human sweater legs, and pits hairier than Doctor J. Kicker is that they were pretty faced

Yeah, some of the local girls were like that.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - Z28.310 at August 15, 2023 05:09 PM (Bd6X8)

379 It looks like nobody called it yet, so NOOD

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 05:09 PM (WkNQM)

380 In rural Northern Arizona (we have a monsoon season every summer), most of our wildfires are caused by lightning strikes.

After that, it's idiots driving vehicles (usually tourists) dragging their chains during the hot & dry late spring / early summer.

Posted by: ShainS -- Misinflation, Disinflation, & Malinflation Researcher at August 15, 2023 05:10 PM (Y/MO8)

381 Another reason that us knuckle draggers are not inclined to listen to the impossibly educated Elites (tm) is that they are SO wrong SO often

P. Krugman 1998, “The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the flaw in ‘Metcalfe’s law' becomes apparent: most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005, it will become clear that the Internet’s impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine’s”

Yeah, Metcalfe's law, you RUBES!

Posted by: ed gibbon at August 15, 2023 05:11 PM (nUO1n)

382 Young Chinese men learn about sex from Japanese porn.

Wait a minute...so your lower parts are NOT all pixelated in real life?!?

Posted by: Some young chinese man the first time he is with a woman at August 15, 2023 05:11 PM (lc5cP)

383 I wonder if the “ haole” talk will be muted for a little bit??
Posted by: tubal at August 15, 2023 05:06 PM (PCK5/)

LOL. Yeah. Right.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at August 15, 2023 05:12 PM (BdMk6)

384 Those Spam plate meals are...well my family likes them but I find them awful. And, of course, they're here in California now.

I'll go two doors down and get kung pao chicken, thank you.

Not sure if true everywhere but the pizza by the slice at our local Whole Foods has more in common with the box than anything made of dough cheese and tomato sauce.

Posted by: JEM at August 15, 2023 05:13 PM (8erNz)

385 366 I wonder if the “ haole” talk will be muted for a little bit??
Posted by: tubal

No, of course not.

Posted by: Puddleglum at August 15, 2023 05:13 PM (sAmhv)

386 So, did the estates off Obama and Oprah get burned down?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 15, 2023 05:14 PM (Keyt1)

387 326
negligence (cigarette butts, unattended/poorly-doused campfires, etc.)

versus

Arson (or any kind of deliberate fire-setting)
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at August 15, 2023 04:58 PM (WkNQM)

Sounds like a very thin line. Although perhaps in law it is not.

Posted by: m at August 15, 2023 05:15 PM (x5hic)

388 with arson the cause of 21 percent of fires."

Posted by: Moron Robbie - Some comments were lost, so if you said something interesting, repeat it here. at August 15, 2023 05:03 PM (OeAlt)

I'm the firestarter
twisted firestarter

Posted by: The Prodigy at August 15, 2023 05:16 PM (pyXMr)

389 "The specific people who were involved in it were pretty much all associated with a Miami station, which was the largest CIA station at the time. It was basically, it was the Cuban station," said Kennedy.

"And the people who were involved in that station were people like Bill Harvey and David Atlee Phillips who was clearly involved in my uncle’s assassination. He was by all evidence, he was Lee Harvey Oswald’s handler at the CIA."

Posted by: Braenyard at August 15, 2023 05:22 PM (AbYHm)

390
You ever wonder how drywall - DRYWALL - is cheaper to get from halfway around the planet?
Posted by: blaster

Federal income tax, FICA, etc. is on the production end.
Effectively doubling the cost compared to imports from countries that do that.
Basically an excise tax on domestic goods.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at August 15, 2023 06:01 PM (ga8qR)

391 Thing is, all these problems feed on each other. You have a decline in births, meaning there is no younger generation to buy up all this real estate. You have no tax base. You have a government addicted to development. And way to much to big to fail stuff. The government can't bail them out, but must bail them out.

Posted by: Comrade Roboto at August 15, 2023 06:39 PM (nJ1bF)

392 52 China has way to many single men with no hope of having a wife or girlfriend, what would a communist govt do with that?
----------------
Get American males to cut their junk off and drill a bonus hole?

Posted by: Puddinhead at August 16, 2023 08:57 AM (DmtxH)

393 386 So, did the estates off Obama and Oprah get burned down?
-------------
Sparky's digs are on Oahu. I think Oprah has a spread in Maui but I don't know where.

Posted by: Puddinhead at August 16, 2023 08:59 AM (8Sqzu)

Processing 0.07, elapsed 0.0781 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0207 seconds, 402 records returned.
Page size 213 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.