Unintended Consequences [Pete Bog]

The financial wizards who set the rules for our financial markets have inadvertently created a two tier system. They have designated a few very large financial institutions as “Systemically Important” or in the vernacular “too big to fail”. They have made it very clear the institutions to which they are referring. That seems smart as a way to say these banks, insurance and investment companies are large and if they fail it will have significant negative impacts for the country. It therefore also establishes a second group of financial institutions, those which are allowed to fail.

This would be okay, but for the existence of the FDIC and insurance for depositors. For every federally licensed financial institution the FDIC provides insurance to depositors, generally $250,000 per account. There are some exceptions that allow for a higher amount but for this discussion $250k works. In the recent Silicon Valley Bank (SVB) failure and the run on First Republic (FRC) the $250,000 dollar limit created much of the angst for those institutions. SVB and First Republic had fallen into the classic banking trap. They had made a lot of loans that had a term in years, and were generally fixed rate. These loans were funded by depositor accounts which 18 months ago were paid very little in interest. Great deal for the banks. Loan money for 3.5% and pay the depositors .25%. The difference between what banks pay depositors and the rate on loans they make is their “net interest margin”. When the expense side of the equation changes it can become precarious for the bank.

Over the last year or so the Federal Reserve has been trying to fight inflation by raising interest rates in the market. One impact is that banks now have to pay their depositors more interest or those deposits will be withdrawn. If those deposit funds were tied up in long term low interest loans the bank has a problem. The loans may be good loans and likely to be paid off, but it doesn’t matter. The bank needs cash to repay depositors who are withdrawing funds. As people start withdrawing funds the bank has a cash flow squeeze. When people realize the bank is squeezed they try to take their money out as soon as they can. All of them. At once. The result is that the bank cannot repay its’ depositors and is effectively bankrupt regardless of the quality of the assets it owns. They can potentially sell some of those assets but loans that earn less than the market rate of interest are not worth their face value. The result is large losses and the taxpayer stepping up to bail out the banks. Or at least the first $250,000 per depositor. Then the political cat fight starts. Big depositors caught short or asleep immediately start screaming for relief in the form of an expanded deposit guarantee. This happened in 2008 and again last month with SVB. Big depositors are typically politically connected. You will be stunned to hear that the government stepped in to guarantee all of the deposits and save the bacon of a bunch of tech companies and their financial backers. Right or wrong it happened.

So who is next? The government cannot afford to fight inflation and guarantee all of the deposits of the banking system. Doing so would give the banks no incentive to make good loans that would be repaid rather they would simply make as many loans as they could to allow the banksters to collect big bonuses, consequences be damned. The Treasury Department personified by one Janet Yellen, a Berkeley Finance type distinguished mostly by being wrong a lot, starts trying to simultaneously calm fears of a bank run and deny that deposit insurance will be increased beyond the current limits. Despite what happened last month for the SVB depositors and now for First Republic. That was different because shut up.

Here is where it gets ugly. Regional and local banks tend to make the majority of the small business and commercial real estate loans in the country. Those banks have the misfortune of not belonging to the club of “Too Big to Fail”, which means the Treasury department is saying “we can allow this this bank to fail”. That implies that the deposit limits are in place for the smaller banks and more importantly their depositors, but not for the depositors of the Wells Fargo, Bank of America and JP Morgans of the financial world. I could add Prudential, Pimco and Blackrock to that list as well but you get the picture. No rational depositor will keep more than $250,000 in any single account in any of the smaller, “Not Too Big to Fail” banks. You would be stupid to do so when you have the Federal Government effectively saying that they will backstop 100% of the deposits in the Systemically Important Banks.

Most people do not have deposits in excess of $250,000. But a lot of those who do, local businesses, retirees and the like want to support their local bank but simply cannot justify the risk. The local bank now has a hard time growing their deposit base no matter how secure. With limited deposits the local bank’s ability to make loans to the local community business, or real estate development is severely constrained. No problem, this means that the Big Banks will just step in and make those loans. Right. Not a chance. Big banks try not to make small loans or loans that are based on knowing their customers. They are heavily incentivized to make “safe” loans or buy government bonds as an investment. Convenient for the government and the big banks which have a locked in source of cheap capital. Lousy for the regional and community banks and the customers who depend on them for credit.

Over the next 18 to 24 months credit available to small and medium sized businesses will gradually dry up. As borrowing costs increase fewer investments make business sense. This will result in lots of companies being starved for capital or simply closing. Business may be doing fine for the big companies as credit is still available to help them take market share from smaller competitors. The result is small business job loss, and more economic hardship for the suburbs and rural areas. I suspect we will see more bank failures as well. Congress created this mess. I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed. Be sure to thank your representatives when you see them.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 no monkey?!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:01 AM (cD1dp)

2 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:01 AM (Zz0t1)

3 Hey Chef!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:01 AM (Zz0t1)

4 Willowed:

Stephen King@StephenKing
It might be time to stop talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop and do something about America’s problem with gun violence.

Ok, let's talk about Hunter Biden circumventing federal gun laws and purchasing a firearm illegally.
Posted by: Stu Podaso

Let's talk about Hunter Biden paintings selling for a half million dollars.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:02 AM (Cay8n)

5 "Too Big To Fail"....can't fail or too big to allow to fail?

Posted by: BignJames at May 04, 2023 11:02 AM (AwYPR)

6 We will be made to goose step!

Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:03 AM (bA3Ln)

7 Over the next 18 to 24 months credit available to small and medium sized businesses will gradually dry up. As borrowing costs increase fewer investments make business sense. This will result in lots of companies being starved for capital or simply closing. Business may be doing fine for the big companies as credit is still available to help them take market share from smaller competitors. The result is small business job loss, and more economic hardship for the suburbs and rural areas. I suspect we will see more bank failures as well. Congress created this mess. I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed. Be sure to thank your representatives when you see them.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:00 AM

Dodd-Frank already did a number on small and medium sized banks and new bank creation.

What has happened is their replacement with private debt funds. Usually categorized as a form of "shadow banking".

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:03 AM (eYoxG)

8 No blah blah blah

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 04, 2023 11:04 AM (X+Ku8)

9 And now we are returned to our regularly scheduled, buttocks-free programming. Whew.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 04, 2023 11:04 AM (Xrfse)

10 Aye...the Pete.

Wait. Who the hell is Pete Bog?

Posted by: garrett at May 04, 2023 11:04 AM (5U4ij)

11 Morning.

No monkey.

No heinies.

Not even one of those apes with the sagging red ass.

Posted by: Robert at May 04, 2023 11:04 AM (F2fc4)

12 Nice explanation.
Good job!

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (ufFY8)

13 The bank needs cash to repay depositors who are withdrawing funds. As people start withdrawing funds the bank has a cash flow squeeze. When people realize the bank is squeezed they try to take their money out as soon as they can. All of them. At once. The result is that the bank cannot repay its’ depositors and is effectively bankrupt regardless of the quality of the assets it owns.

George Bailey, a nation turns it's lonely eyes to you
Woo woo.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (Cay8n)

14 Doing so would give the banks no incentive to make good loans that would be repaid rather they would simply make as many loans as they could to allow the banksters to collect big bonuses, consequences be damned.
++++
This is the story of WaMu. They made bad loan after bad loan, in every possible venue, to inflate the balance sheet in a race to death.

I benefited personally from this. In college (2007), I got a WaMu credit card. I was honest my application. I had no credit, no income to speak of, plenty of student debt, no chance at income for at least 18 months. They gave me the card - with a $15,000 credit limit at 9.5% interest. Insanity.

When WaMu went tits up and the Fed and Treasury transferred most of it to Chase, my card went to Chase with the rest. My credit limit was slashed to $500, and the interest rate spiked to 24.9% - to a level much more appropriate to my conditions.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (O4oKn)

15 Small banks are to be acquired by mega, politically connected, banks. This happened in 2008 and it is happening again.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (aD39U)

16 11 Morning.

No monkey.

No heinies.

Not even one of those apes with the sagging red ass.
Posted by: Robert at May 04, 2023 11:04 AM (F2fc4)

Alright, enough talk about "The View."

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (X+Ku8)

17 Let's talk about Hunter Biden paintings selling for a half million dollars.
Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:02 AM (Cay8n)
---
Is Hunter Biden "too big to fail?"

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (YIVH2)

18 Could be your last chance to buy PacWest at this price, folks! I see big things in their future...

Posted by: Jim Cramer at May 04, 2023 11:05 AM (CaJIi)

19 Too Big To Fail"....can't fail or too big to allow to fail?
Posted by: BignJames

Too big to ALLOW to fail.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:06 AM (Cay8n)

20 The result is small business job loss, and more economic hardship for the suburbs and rural areas. I suspect we will see more bank failures as well. Congress created this mess. I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed. Be sure to thank your representatives when you see them.

By design.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

21 Upside to private debt funds is that the interests of the participants are better aligned and there isn't usually an issue with duration or early liquidation being needed.

The downside is private debt is a rich-only thing pretty much, what's going to happen to ordinary banking services over time?

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:06 AM (eYoxG)

22 19 Too Big To Fail"....can't fail or too big to allow to fail?
Posted by: BignJames

Too big to ALLOW to fail.
------------------
Woody threw America into a WW to save Wall Street Banks.

Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (bA3Ln)

23 I don’t think the creation of the two tiered system was inadvertent.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (1huWu)

24 Wow that is such an excellent post! Thanks! Can we run Pete Bog for prez 2024?

Related: bogs and peatlands are exquisitely beautiful, and they often smell better than wherever you happen to be sitting right now. I'm a fenophile myself.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (MvF+J)

25 Wah, you're not even a cripple!

https://ytube.io/3dzj

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (aD39U)

26 According To Hoyt: SO ABOUT THAT KING HARV GUY…

https://tinyurl.com/mtzj6xa5

Posted by: Robert at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (F2fc4)

27 The dollar amount of the bank failures in the past 60 days is larger than all of 2008. And more to come.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (lTGtQ)

28 The Treasury Department personified by one Janet Yellen, a Berkeley Finance type distinguished mostly by being wrong a lot, starts trying to simultaneously calm fears of a bank run and deny that deposit insurance will be increased beyond the current limits.
++++
Even worse. Yellen caused this run in the regional banks. SVB collapsing was what it was, but the more recent pressure can be traced *directly* to Janet Hellen. She told everyone that they would do whatever it took to make depositors whole, but only at the "Systemically Important Financial Institutions" (aka "too big to fail"). Everyone with jumbo deposits are regional banks started pulling them, to transfer them to SIFI/TBTF banks where Yellen told them those deposits would be protected.

This is at her feet. She moved the goalposts, and did so very, very stupidly in a way that has triggered major pressure in the regional banks - and will likely cause many of them to fail.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (O4oKn)

29 Qualcomm Plunges After Smartphone Demand Weakness Persists

Posted by: SMOD at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (RHGPo)

30 "Great deal for the banks. Loan money for 3.5% and pay the depositors .25%. The difference between what banks pay depositors and the rate on loans they make is their “net interest margin”."
===

Mostly correct. But the big kicker is that banks only need 5% cash deposits to fund 100% of a loan from the FED. Banks get a 20 to 1 kicker at the federal funds rate.

So you have some schmuck puts in $100K, bank can get $2,000,000 from the fed and pay a very low rate was in the neighborhood of ZERO PERCENT. >25% to the schmuck, 0% to the fed, 6% to the bank from the borrower. Bank wins, WINS BIG.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (17s+e)

31 You can't fight inflation by printing money and handing it our to evert country, Woke companies and every person not working.

Posted by: Skip at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (1khX8)

32 So what have we learned this morning? America is going to hell in a bullet train, we're likely facing another banking/credit crisis, and CBD has a thing for man ass. Pretty educational for a Thursday.

Posted by: Learn something new every day around here at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (FEapg)

33 Geraldo Rivera@GeraldoRivera
Does anybody really believe President Joe Biden was involved in a criminal bribery scheme? Dollars to donuts it's another bogus, blowhard, pretend whistleblower.
Hint: If the person announcing a would-be criminal scheme is a partisan politician, it's a partisan political event
---------

I guess Geraldo has figured out how not to get fired from Fox.

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (MrPAc)

34 Stephen King@StephenKing
It might be time to stop talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop and do something about America’s problem with gun violence.

Got it. You're on the laptop. Care to go double-or-nothing on the Epstein trials?

Posted by: t-bird at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (CaJIi)

35 The article was great, except for one singular point which, when adjusted, sets the whole situation in a whole new light.

That point is the inclusion of the word "inadvertently".

They did not accidentally created a two-tiered system. Class warfare has been the design of the Western banking system since the beginning.

Their problem is that the powers-that-be thought that they could ride the tiger, and are finding out, as everyone does eventually, that the tiger cannot be tamed.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at May 04, 2023 11:09 AM (D/abK)

36 Too Big To Fail"....can't fail or too big to allow to fail?
Posted by: BignJames

Too big to ALLOW to fail.
------------------
Woody threw America into a WW to save Wall Street Banks.
Posted by: Pudinhead

Hello Ukraine.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:09 AM (Cay8n)

37 27 The dollar amount of the bank failures in the past 60 days is larger than all of 2008. And more to come.
----------------
Did you see any banks earnings reports that posted a profit last week?

Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:09 AM (bA3Ln)

38 Speaking of two tiers -- I always wonder about that proposed $600 reporting threshold on transactions. The Anointed aren't going to agree to that, so how would they get around it, assuming it becomes law?

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:09 AM (PiwSw)

39 Most people do not have deposits in excess of $250,000. But a lot of those who do, local businesses, retirees and the like want to support their local bank but simply cannot justify the risk.

-

Any employer with more than 75-100 employees has over $250K in one bank account.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:09 AM (lTGtQ)

40 Not a chance. Big banks try not to make small loans or loans that are based on knowing their customers.
++++
That second one is key. They only want to lend algorithmically. They don't want to have to *think* about the loans they make. Knowing the customer, knowing the local conditions, etc. is slow. Letting a computer spit out a credit risk is fast.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (O4oKn)

41 27 The dollar amount of the bank failures in the past 60 days is larger than all of 2008. And more to come.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:07 AM (lTGtQ)

The issue would tend to be how much they are underwater, which was a lot less clear in 2008. If the amount of loss is well understood, it's a lot easier to sort things out.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (eYoxG)

42 The Treasury announced they are buying back some securities too. Just a stealth bank bailout.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (1huWu)

43 24 I’m a fenophile myself.

Have you told her of your feelings for her?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (rHzf3)

44 I am in this predicament right now. I've been procrastinating though keeping an eye on the status of my bank. I really don't want to withdraw some of my funds but it is the prudent thing to do. I also don't want to contribute to the panic problem either. It sucks.

Posted by: polynikes at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (acrwL)

45 How do you think they're going to usher in the 15 minute cities.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)

46 The dollar amount of the bank failures in the past 60 days is larger than all of 2008. And more to come.

Posted by: Thomas Paine
===

Look fat, you stupid son of a bitch. This IS the best economy ever and inflation is transitory, ask any economist. The Biden economic plan is working!

My word as a Biden.

Posted by: Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:11 AM (17s+e)

47 Isn't it strange how every single policy seems to benefit large corporations who donate to political central committee, at the expense of their smaller competitors who eat up their potential market share, and the expense of those firms' customers?

It's just the damnedest thing.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at May 04, 2023 11:11 AM (oINRc)

48 43 Actually, I did!

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:11 AM (MvF+J)

49 Oh, and nice write up Pete Bog.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:11 AM (Zz0t1)

50 Yo, Pete Bog! You haz writing / ranting skilz!
*purses lips together and nods head slowly*

Posted by: Doof at May 04, 2023 11:11 AM (0dJLW)

51 If I recall correctly, Yellen's claim to fame was to ask everyone to help the economy by increasing the number of abortions.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:12 AM (lTGtQ)

52 I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed.
---------

No they will pass laws forcing banks to give valuable loans to known credit risks. Completely intuitive if you live on the planet Zaxxon.

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:12 AM (57NLB)

53 i love the law of unintended consequences...

so many people fail to consider that possibility...

Posted by: SturmToddler at May 04, 2023 11:12 AM (nXhwP)

54 Inflation was created by insanely excessive federal spending, financed by a Federal Reserve creating money through "Quantitative Easing". The Congress recently passed the "Inflation Reduction Act" (which spends trillions more), so the spending is ongoing and getting bigger. Inflation will too.

Menawhile, the Fed is reversing QE, and shrinking the money supply as fast as they can. This is what is called in the biz a "contradiction in policy", otherwise known to the smart guys as a "disaster".

To those of us poor schmucks working for a living, this all adds up to very hard times are coming. Thanks, Washington.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:12 AM (whk/K)

55 I really don't want to withdraw some of my funds but it is the prudent thing to do. I also don't want to contribute to the panic problem either.

Losing your money, in an attempt not to set a bad example, is a really piss poor move.

Posted by: Mentioned in Mayfair at May 04, 2023 11:13 AM (Cuhby)

56 Government going all-in on destroying small business, regional banks, consolidating all finance to oligarchs that will fund crooked politicians at the level they are becoming accustomed to. It's criminal, it's sad, dire, but at least there are no bare buttocks on this thread.

Posted by: Thankful For Little Blessings at May 04, 2023 11:13 AM (Nn3xT)

57 My Great Grandfather who lived through the depression had his saving spread out between five different banks when he passed in the early nineties. Had a 2,000 acre dairy farm in Maine and didn't trust banks.

Posted by: JROD at May 04, 2023 11:14 AM (IlL6s)

58 Did you see any banks earnings reports that posted a profit last week?

Posted by: Pudinhead

Chase

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:14 AM (lTGtQ)

59 i love the law of unintended consequences...

so many people fail to consider that possibility...
Posted by: SturmToddler at May 04, 2023 11:12 AM (nXhwP)
---
Remember, homebuyers with a good credit score are now subsidizing those with a low credit score. The *intended* consequences are bad enough (squeezing the middle class). The *unintended* consequences may be unimaginably bad.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 04, 2023 11:14 AM (YIVH2)

60 Ladies and gentlemen welcome to manifest fascism-communism.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (17s+e)

61 Bidens peoplr just upended mortgage lending to promote loans to people with bad credit. Perfect timing.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (1huWu)

62 Pete Bog, on the blog, leaves us agog!

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (rHzf3)

63 "so many people fail to consider that possibility..."

It's the very definition of our politicians. Rare indeed is the politician who thinks of unintended consequences when formulating policy. Basically, it pays them more handsomely to ignore UCs.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (MvF+J)

64 Over the next 18 to 24 months credit available to small and medium sized businesses will gradually dry up. As borrowing costs increase fewer investments make business sense. This will result in lots of companies being starved for capital or simply closing. Business may be doing fine for the big companies as credit is still available to help them take market share from smaller competitors.
++++
So much the better! Fewer small businesses and more concentration in the monopolies and cartels is a *good* thing if you happen to be a tyrant.

Except that big companies are in trouble, too. Almost none of them outside of high tech are healthy. They're weighed down with debt and the revenues aren't there to deal with it - not in a higher-interest environment. They can turn the leverage wheel forever as rates decline (you actually don't even need revenue *at all* if you play it right), but then their faces get ripped off on the moment they go up.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (O4oKn)

65 "Big banks try not to make small loans or loans that are based on knowing their customers. They are heavily incentivized to make “safe” loans or buy government bonds as an investment. Convenient for the government and the big banks which have a locked in source of cheap capital."

Not also the games the powers that be play in regards to reserve requirements... and what forms they allow those reserves to be in. It's all about shell games.

This wasn't an accident, they've intended to implode everything for a while. Question is whether or not this is the start of the big one and what that means for the progress of their neofuedalist bullshit.

Posted by: somedood at May 04, 2023 11:15 AM (428dN)

66 Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:16 AM (Zz0t1)

67 Willowed: Mrs. Wolfus No. 2 charmed the hell out of waiters, and even some waitresses.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius,
*
You sure got the grand prize! Congratulations
Posted by: Cheri at May 04, 2023

***
A grand prize that turned out to be a Nigerian prince scam, I'm afraid.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:16 AM (J2vNu)

68 JoeTato stopped inflation by putting a woman in charge of government spending. Never put a leftist woman in charge of monetary policy.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at May 04, 2023 11:16 AM (17s+e)

69 Congress created this mess. I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed. Be sure to thank your representatives when you see them.
++++
Sure, to a point. Congress has some of the blame. Treasure and the Fed have far, far more. Is what they did about SVB legal? Is what they did in 2008-2012 legal? Is Yellen's position that deposits are sacrosanct regardless of size but *only* at TBTF banks legal?

Probably not. They're running unchecked, and doing tremendous damage.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (O4oKn)

70 Posted by: t-bird at May 04, 2023 11:08 AM (CaJIi)

Also you have to admire how they lie about the laptop for three years through two elections, then the truth gets admitted and by then it's old news and you need to move on.

I find "Hunters Laptop" to be a lot like "Hillarys Emails". Emails and Laptop are two of the most innocuous safe sounding words in the language. Nothing about classified info, bribes, payoffs, racketeering, incest, hack jobs, threats, political favoritism or family porn.

Just a "laptop".

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (eh4B6)

71 JoeTato stopped inflation by putting a woman in charge of government spending. Never put a leftist woman in charge ~~of monetary policy~~.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable a Clear and Present Danger at May 04, 2023 11:16 AM (17s+e)

Corrected for accuracy.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (Zz0t1)

72 "44 I am in this predicament right now. I've been procrastinating though keeping an eye on the status of my bank. I really don't want to withdraw some of my funds but it is the prudent thing to do. I also don't want to contribute to the panic problem either. It sucks.
Posted by: polynikes at May 04, 2023 11:10 AM (acrwL)"

Well don't forget that most people are long overdue for considering what percentage of their assets they hold in steel, brass, lead, and beans.

Posted by: somedood at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (428dN)

73 "Bog sat alone is a boggy marsh, totally motionless except for his heart."

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (xcxpd)

74 Also notice the use of Hillary and Hunter vs Clinton and Biden.

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (eh4B6)

75 Posted by: Mentioned in Mayfair at May 04, 2023 11:13 AM (Cuhby)

I'm going to move it but there is no certainty much less a hint right now that my bank is going to fail . Of course if everyone starts withdrawing their money like me that could change. Thus the suck.

Posted by: polynikes at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (acrwL)

76 It might be time to stop talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop and do something about America’s problem with gun violence.

I'm thinking a constitutional amendment to deny anyone that has ever voted for a Democrat for president the RKBA. That would solve the "problem" so...King would be on board with it right?

Posted by: 18-1 at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (lc5cP)

77 Except that big companies are in trouble, too. Almost none of them outside of high tech are healthy. They're weighed down with debt and the revenues aren't there to deal with it - not in a higher-interest environment. They can turn the leverage wheel forever as rates decline (you actually don't even need revenue *at all* if you play it right), but then their faces get ripped off on the moment they go up.

Posted by: Joe Mannix

Even the tech companies are in trouble. Too much cheap capital was handed out, and now the flow is reversing.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (lTGtQ)

78 Yet again we have a problem created by...government trying to solve some other problem.

Clearly the answer is more laws and regulations because it worked so well last time.

Posted by: 18-1 at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (lc5cP)

79 In the 2008-2012 crisis, large bank failures were the big problem. America's 10,000 community banks were the safer places to be. The Dodd-Frank bill dranatically increased the cost of regulation, and banks began to disappear. We are down to 4,000 or so today. No one would be surprised to hear JP Morgan and other big banks largely wrote and campaigned to pass Dodd-Frank.

Rent seeking corporations win in the ned.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (whk/K)

80 But seriously, good post Pete. Thanks.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (xcxpd)

81 Many a stone age celt has been found buried in pete bog.

Posted by: NL at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (eGTCV)

82 Yet again we have a problem created by...government trying to solve some other problem.
-------

I question whether they are trying to solve anything

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (eh4B6)

83 no monkey?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:01 AM

The lack of respect for tradition and community mores is staggering.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 04, 2023 11:19 AM (a3Q+t)

84 "Bog sat alone is a boggy marsh, totally motionless except for his heart."

Bog sat alone in a boggy marsh, totally motionless, for 6000 years, his body well preserved by the mildly acidic water.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (MvF+J)

85 Well don't forget that most people are long overdue for considering what percentage of their assets they hold in steel, brass, lead, and beans.
Posted by: somedood at May 04, 2023 11:17 AM (428dN)
++++
And cash. I have long believed that one should have a meaningful amount of cash on hand. I do this myself, and think everyone should do it. Have at least a month's expenses in actual, physical cash in your house. Yes, it earns nothing. Yes, it is not insured. It is itself, however, an insurance policy.

What if the network goes down? What if there's a power failure? What if your bank fails and the FDIC takes a while to make you whole? What if you need money when the banks aren't open?

There are a ton of reasons to have an emergency fund on hand in cash, preferably in $20s and $50s, which are easy to spend. Benjamins are harder to spend in real life.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (O4oKn)

86 and now the flow is reversing.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (lTGtQ)

If only

Posted by: Joetato at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (eh4B6)

87 I feel no pity for the cell phone companies. They fund and shill for this shit. They price their product for a good economy and when the pols they support f*ck the economy into the ground and no one can afford a $1400 cell phone, ESAD, assholes.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (Zz0t1)

88 @4

>>Let's talk about Hunter Biden paintings selling for a half million dollars.

Plausible Deniability Take:

Hey, if a Rothko can sell for 240M, then some Chinese Oligarch who's into blown art can pay 500k to The VP's son without there being a wink and a nod/quid pro quo.

There is no accounting for taste.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (sNQ62)

89 Wall Street may be too big to fail, but it's geographically and demographically tiny. I mean, a few battalions worth of sans-cullotes could probably extinguish all human life there in a matter of days, or even hours.

Just something to ponder in that black car, after a short workday in the corner office, and before the hookers and blow, I suppose.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (oINRc)

90 86 and now the flow is reversing.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (lTGtQ)

If only
Posted by: Joetato at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (eh4B6)

=======

Joe...just...shit does not go back up.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (cD1dp)

91 Then: It doesn't matter if the Trump economy is awesome - Mr Trump is a terrible person why...he said p*ssy!

Now: Ok, ok, so the President's son might be a crackhead, and he might be taking bribes for his dad, and yeah sure some of those hookers he is frolicking with probably are under 18. Maybe. But we need to focus on the important things like fixing the economy.

Posted by: The left at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (lc5cP)

92 Interest rates are effectively limiting credit now.

I am going to buy a used car, and we pay cash for cars, but I went to my bank's website to see what their rates were - 9.9%!

Schnikies!

30 yr mortgages are at 5.5%!

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (pwExq)

93
=======

Joe...just...shit does not go back up.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM (cD1dp)

But, there's that South Park episode.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (Zz0t1)

94 Even the tech companies are in trouble. Too much cheap capital was handed out, and now the flow is reversing.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (lTGtQ)
++++
Some are, but their trouble is more routine. Most of the big tech firms don't have a ton of debt. The tech recession is starting and profits will be down, layoffs will be up, etc., but rising interest rates don't spell balance sheet death for most of the big tech firms.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (O4oKn)

95 91 Then: It doesn't matter if the Trump economy is awesome - Mr Trump is a terrible person why...he said p*ssy!

Now: Ok, ok, so the President's son might be a crackhead, and he might be taking bribes for his dad, and yeah sure some of those hookers he is frolicking with probably are under 18. Maybe. But we need to focus on the important things like fixing the economy.
Posted by: The left at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (lc5cP)

=========

"Also, the economy under Trump was illusory and actually terrible while the economy today is fucking awesome!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (cD1dp)

96
Hey, if a Rothko can sell for 240M, then some Chinese Oligarch who's into blown art can pay 500k to The VP's son without there being a wink and a nod/quid pro quo.

My understanding is that a significant portion of the fine art market is just a legal way to launder money and bribe people.

Posted by: 18-1 at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (lc5cP)

97 Never put a leftist woman in charge of monetary policy.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable

Never put a leftist woman in charge of ANYTHING!

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (Wy1BU)

98 75 Posted by: Mentioned in Mayfair at May 04, 2023 11:13 AM (Cuhby)

I'm going to move it but there is no certainty much less a hint right now that my bank is going to fail . Of course if everyone starts withdrawing their money like me that could change. Thus the suck.
Posted by: polynikes at May 04, 2023 11:18 AM (acrwL)

If it's under $250K, leave it - you're protected. Just make sure you have some cash on hand and a separate account in another bank for bill paying in case one gets closed.

If you are over $250K, pull out the overage and start a new account in another regional bank. See above for the rest.

I always keep my money in a regional bank - I don't support the globalists, so I tend to vote with my money.

Posted by: Nova Local at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (exHjb)

99 Janet Yellen, a Berkeley Finance type distinguished mostly by being wrong a lot

She's also distinguished by collecting millions of dollars in "speaking fees" from Wall Street.

She's paid to treat some institutions as "too big to fail".

Posted by: Oregon! at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (2tUFv)

100 Once you realize the Macro Economy is a game of Jenga and the government is horrifically bad at Jenga, everything will be understood.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (sNQ62)

101 Now: Ok, ok, so the President's son might be a crackhead, and he might be taking bribes for his dad, and yeah sure some of those hookers he is frolicking with probably are under 18. Maybe. But we need to focus on the important things like fixing the economy.
Posted by: The left at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (lc5cP)

I read that in a James Carville voice.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (PiwSw)

102 Never put a leftist woman in charge of ANYTHING!

I'm right here.

Posted by: The Sandwich making at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (lc5cP)

103 102 Never put a leftist woman in charge of ANYTHING!

I'm right here.
Posted by: The Sandwich making at May 04, 2023 11:22 AM (lc5cP)

=========

"Kale?! On a sandwich?!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:23 AM (cD1dp)

104 Bog sat alone in a boggy marsh, totally motionless, for 6000 years, his body well preserved by the mildly acidic water.
Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:20 AM

We're right here you know.

Posted by: Danish Bog Bodies at May 04, 2023 11:23 AM (Wnv9h)

105 Personally, I think it was Cleopatra’s limericks that charmed Caesar and Antony. In Egyptian, her name was Muldoonititi.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 04, 2023 11:23 AM (rHzf3)

106 "Also, the economy under Trump was illusory and actually terrible while the economy today is fucking awesome!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (cD1dp)

"...and we've reduced illegal immigration by 90%".

Posted by: BignJames at May 04, 2023 11:23 AM (AwYPR)

107 30 yr mortgages are at 5.5%!
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (pwExq)

Pfft.

Posted by: Jimmy Carter - Former Leader Of The Free World at May 04, 2023 11:24 AM (AiZBA)

108 Its Star Wars day.

Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at May 04, 2023 11:24 AM (CecP5)

109 @96

>>My understanding is that a significant portion of the fine art market is just a legal way to launder money and bribe people.

Everything is a racket, everything.

There is no plausible reason you give Obama and Big Mike a 60M dollar book deal or a 100M dollar production deal without some other hidden services being rendered.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:24 AM (sNQ62)

110 108 Its Star Wars day.
Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at May 04, 2023 11:24 AM (CecP5)

=======

Only on Alderaan.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (cD1dp)

111 Western Alliance bank was halted, then resumed trading, then halted again when it dropped 45%.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (lTGtQ)

112 89 Wall Street may be too big to fail, but it's geographically and demographically tiny. I mean, a few battalions worth of sans-cullotes could probably extinguish all human life there in a matter of days, or even hours.
---------------
This is true. You need to add the San Francisco banks as well. Please note, both locales like to import others and bums to protect themselves from the Americans.

Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (bA3Ln)

113 "Also, the economy under Trump was illusory and actually terrible while the economy today is fucking awesome!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (cD1dp)

The big bottle of Cholula Hot Sauce is $10. In what world does that equal a good economy?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (Zz0t1)

114 You can't fight inflation by printing money and handing it our to evert country, Woke companies and every person not working.
Posted by: Skip

That's fighting fire with gasoline!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (FVME7)

115 Credit is overrated.... Joey B.

I see you have worked hard to get a great credit score, good, it'll cost you more in interest rates.

Posted by: TC in NC at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (FjlUt)

116 The repricing of every asset in the economy to reflect higher real rates will be a drag on growth for years. That’s why Wall Street and soon Main Street are screaming for rate cuts.

Inflation is not so bad. There are no reasons for fearing a loose money policy. Keep those deficits high and mint the ten trillion dollar coin !

Posted by: Pete Bog at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (AIylV)

117 113 The big bottle of Cholula Hot Sauce is $10. In what world does that equal a good economy?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (Zz0t1)

======

One where the media doesn't mention it, Trump isn't president, and the labor market participation rate won't increase?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (cD1dp)

118 Pete Bog posting truth in the Morning Rant. Who's next-Tundra Muck? Gertie Gravel? Stanley Schist?

Posted by: Marty Macadam at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (Nn3xT)

119 Only on Alderaan.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:25 AM (cD1dp)

Mein Fuhrer ... Alderaan ...

Posted by: G'rump928(c) tugs collar at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (aD39U)

120 Some are, but their trouble is more routine. Most of the big tech firms don't have a ton of debt. The tech recession is starting and profits will be down, layoffs will be up, etc., but rising interest rates don't spell balance sheet death for most of the big tech firms.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (O4oKn)

Small/upcoming tech with negative cash flow is in serious trouble though as investment money for them is drying up.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (eYoxG)

121 1 no monkey?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:01 AM (cD1dp)

Monkey is at the bank withdrawing all his money.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (anj39)

122 107 30 yr mortgages are at 5.5%!
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (pwExq)

Pfft.
Posted by: Jimmy Carter - Former Leader Of The Free World at May 04, 2023 11:24 AM (AiZBA)

Yeah I know. I am 29 enough to recall.

Heck my first house was a 7.25% mortgages, so in comparison, LUXURY!

But, they are also double what they were 2 years ago. That has an effect.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (pwExq)

123 Jesse Watters is informing me the Biden administration is corrupt. A shocking revelation. Like he and FNC just discovered this.

Another Fox useful idiot propaganda tool.

Posted by: Maj. Healey - Eff Fox at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (N5C4b)

124 ======

One where the media doesn't mention it, Trump isn't president, and the labor market participation rate won't increase?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (cD1dp)

DING!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (Zz0t1)

125 There is no plausible reason you give Obama and Big Mike a 60M dollar book deal or a 100M dollar production deal without some other hidden services being rendered.

For the record the beejers I gave the producers at Netflix were honestly on the house.

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (lc5cP)

126 Interest rates are effectively limiting credit now.
===================
Very true, and soon the credit losses are coming (which will further tighten credit). Bank loans generally required interest rate cap protection, and as those caps expire (1-3 year durations generally), not only will new loans stop, but old bank loans will suddenly be exposed to much higher interest rates.

Loan defaults will skyrocket, particularly in commercial real estate. All those covid-emptied office buildings in big cities? Bank-owned, soon, and then FDIC owned.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (+iiWN)

127 "Great deal for the banks. Loan money for 3.5% and pay the depositors .25%. The difference between what banks pay depositors and the rate on loans they make is their "net interest margin".

afaik, smaller banks can play the fractional reserve game, so if they make good loans, could (in theory) lend out $9 for every dollar they hold in reserve (cash, I assume, or T-bills maybe). So done perfectly the bank makes 30%, while they were paying depositors under 1%.

at least that is my understanding. Banks create a lot of "money" that way, which can be good for building a local economy ... until the oligarchs use BigGov to destroy small business and centralize everything (banks, health care, law enforcement, voting).

Posted by: illiniwek at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (Cus5s)

128 "Never put a leftist woman in charge of ANYTHING!"

I'm fine with repealing the 19th Amendment. Sorry, gals. I feel crappy about it, but what else can we do?

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (MvF+J)

129 Justice Sonia Sotomayor took $3.6 million from Penguin Random House publishing when the company did have business before the court, and declined to recuse herself.

Posted by: SMOD at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (RHGPo)

130 A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7!

Prices are ridiculous.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (pwExq)

131 /undead sock

Posted by: Napoleon XIV at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (AiZBA)

132 30 yr mortgages are at 5.5%!
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:21 AM (pwExq)
++++
This is going to be a problem for real estate, probably starting this year in a meaningful way. Real estate is local and some places have almost unlimited demand (the migration targets like Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc.), but higher interest demands a lower price.

Assume you have $1,500 to put toward your mortgage every month and have 20% down:
At 4.5%, that payment buys you about a $375k house
At 5.5%, it buys you around $335k
At 6.5%, it buys you around $300k

Most people don't buy houses, they buy payments. Higher interest and the same payment requires a smaller purchase price. Housing's moon-shot is going to end, and might end rapidly.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (O4oKn)

133 Its Star Wars day.
Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at May 04, 2023

=======
Only on Alderaan.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023

***
Or if you lisp

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (J2vNu)

134 Funny...I went to my Wells Fargo bank yesterday and they could not cash a check because their system was "frozen."
Hmmmm..
Thanxs for the write up Pete.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (anj39)

135 no monkey?!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures

You seen the price of monkeys lately?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (FVME7)

136 Loan defaults will skyrocket, particularly in commercial real estate. All those covid-emptied office buildings in big cities? Bank-owned, soon, and then FDIC owned.

Posted by: Huck Follywood

Stand by for a construction boom as downtown office buildings are converted to Section 8 apartments.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (lTGtQ)

137 116 The repricing of every asset in the economy to reflect higher real rates will be a drag on growth for years. That’s why Wall Street and soon Main Street are screaming for rate cuts.
-----------------
The first rule of Cartoon World is if the Banks can't make money, no one can make money. Rates will increase until Banks make money. Yellen is a whore. Powell understands the first rule of money making.

Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (bA3Ln)

138 "The big bottle of Cholula Hot Sauce is $10. In what world does that equal a good economy?"

Our good economy gives you Valentina pepper sauce, which is just as tasty, and shockingly lower in price.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (MvF+J)

139 Thank you very much for the excellent explanation.

I was worried in a more vague way.

Now I know what I am worried about.

Thank you.

Posted by: Just Lily at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (h/ad6)

140 Probably better to invest in hard assets.

Posted by: fd at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (0uN1f)

141

There seems to be a Bud Light ad where the art thread is supposed to be.

Posted by: Diesel Jones, Biologist at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (Vu7A1)

142 afaik, smaller banks can play the fractional reserve game, so if they make good loans, could (in theory) lend out $9 for every dollar they hold in reserve (cash, I assume, or T-bills maybe). So done perfectly the bank makes 30%, while they were paying depositors under 1%.

at least that is my understanding. Banks create a lot of "money" that way, which can be good for building a local economy ... until the oligarchs use BigGov to destroy small business and centralize everything (banks, health care, law enforcement, voting).
Posted by: illiniwek at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (Cus5s)

Banks have overhead and such. Iirc the rule of thumb is 10% return on equity for 1% return on assets. Looking at Wells Fargo for instance, they have 0.72% ROA and 7.59% ROE, which is about that 10:1 ratio.

What the bank makes per depositer dollar is the ROA number. Otherwise banks would rapidly compound to being the entire economy.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:30 AM (eYoxG)

143 Loan defaults will skyrocket, particularly in commercial real estate. All those covid-emptied office buildings in big cities? Bank-owned, soon, and then FDIC owned.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM (+iiWN)

Gravity will soon be reinstated in the commercial real estate market.

Banks won't allow the developers to cut rates to get places rented because they can't service the debt at those lower rates. So they get left empty, and the building management can't offer incentives for companies to extend the leases on office space left empty in a post-Covid work from home world.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:30 AM (pwExq)

144 Proud Boys found guilty of seditious conspiracy

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at May 04, 2023 11:30 AM (rxNdQ)

145
Our good economy gives you Valentina pepper sauce, which is just as tasty, and shockingly lower in price.
Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (MvF+J)

Amazon has Valentina at $11.99........

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:30 AM (Zz0t1)

146 Proud Boys found guilty of seditious conspiracy
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at May 04, 2023 11:30 AM (rxNdQ)

Of course they were. But Antifa is just a concept.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:31 AM (Zz0t1)

147 @130

>>A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous.

A gallon of Tropicana OJ is over 10 bucks at Acme.

A gallon of milk, a gallon of OJ, a loaf of bread, a dozen eggs, a pound of butter, a pound of bacon and a large bottle of ketchup will run you 50 bucks.

All of those things will fit in one large grocery bag.

THAAAAAT.... Is f**king ridiculous.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:31 AM (sNQ62)

148 Ms. WisRich has a small business. We just transferred excess funds out of her regional bank.

Posted by: WisRich at May 04, 2023 11:31 AM (G0vdT)

149 All of those things will fit in one large grocery bag.

THAAAAAT.... Is f**king ridiculous.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:31 AM (sNQ62)

But the democrats LOVE the middle class and FIGHT for the POOR!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (Zz0t1)

150 Most people don't buy houses, they buy payments. Higher interest and the same payment requires a smaller purchase price. Housing's moon-shot is going to end, and might end rapidly.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (O4oKn)

Nominal wages also went up a fair amount and builders didn't build much. We're currently seeing a story of two-housing markets where things are doing pretty well in some areas (the economically stronger South) and poorly in others, like California where the tech economy is sagging.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (eYoxG)

151 "The big bottle of Cholula Hot Sauce is $10. In what world does that equal a good economy?"

Our good economy gives you Valentina pepper sauce, which is just as tasty, and shockingly lower in price.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (MvF+J)

I like Frank's Red Hot...you can brush your teeth w/it.

Posted by: BignJames at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (AwYPR)

152 I'm old enough to remember when I couldn't carry $50 worth of groceries.

I must be getting stronger in my old age.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (aD39U)

153 Market down.
Gold up again.

Posted by: Maj. Healey - Eff Fox at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (N5C4b)

154 And since we're past 100 posts, I just wanted to post a little humor from William Jacobsen of "Legal Insurrection". Leftists outraged at a DeSantis staffer who eats cake while they're doing a sit in at DeSantis' office:

tinyurl.com/3fhuhd9

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (Keyt1)

155 Another way to handle FDIC limits is a brokerage sweeps account. These are meta-accounts with the brokerage, where the money is actually held in your name at multiple participating banks.

An E-Trade Sweeps account is insured up to $500k rather than $250k, because they "sweep" the money around to various institutions. The specific actual deposits at multiple institutions are all under the FDIC limit.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (O4oKn)

156 Most people don't buy houses, they buy payments. Higher interest and the same payment requires a smaller purchase price. Housing's moon-shot is going to end, and might end rapidly.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:27 AM (O4oKn)

Yep. Fed has to fight inflation from the waves of "free" money.

But car sales are already down. Looking at 84 months of payments at 6 or 7% on an average transaction of $48k....

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (pwExq)

157 137 116 The repricing of every asset in the economy to reflect higher real rates will be a drag on growth for years. That’s why Wall Street and soon Main Street are screaming for rate cuts.
-----------------
The first rule of Cartoon World is if the Banks can't make money, no one can make money. Rates will increase until Banks make money. Yellen is a whore. Powell understands the first rule of money making.
Posted by: Pudinhead at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (bA3Ln)

Banks don't need higher rates to make money as they operate off a spread. They want stable rates and large volume, which tends to imply favoring low interest rates.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (eYoxG)

158 The result is small business job loss, and more economic hardship for the suburbs and rural areas. I suspect we will see more bank failures as well. Congress created this mess. I am certain they will quickly pass more laws resulting in more bank regulation, but will not improve credit conditions for the people most squeezed. Be sure to thank your representatives when you see them.

By design.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

I sense that America today won't take kindly to of the hardships coming. Not kindly at all. Nice banks you got there...it'd be a shame...

Posted by: Diogenes at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (anj39)

159 156 Yep. Fed has to fight inflation from the waves of "free" money.

But car sales are already down. Looking at 84 months of payments at 6 or 7% on an average transaction of $48k....
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:33 AM (pwExq)

========

Making cheaper cars with fewer features is not an option, though.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (cD1dp)

160 Stand by for a construction boom as downtown office buildings are converted to Section 8 apartments.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (lTGtQ)
===================
funny you should mention that, because I was just talking to a real estate guy about that. He told me it probably won't happen, because of the need to build bathrooms (no plumbing in most of those offices), and because windows are required for apartments, while interior office space.

He is thinking these will just stay empty until torn down.

But Section 8 housing is a grift to end all grifts, I just learned.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (+iiWN)

161 Good post & I need to double back and read it more thoroughly. However, I believe 2008 was a governmental test case for banking & housing systems; unionization, interest rates for smaller depositors, IRAs; social security, government pensions, etc. And at what f*cking point - if any - were the common people, citizens going to grab the proverbial "pitchfork" and demand some "heads on pikes" and common sense, fair governing vs. redistribution and theft. We failed.

Spending highlights, 2008: Aid to the poor & unemployed $43 billion; Health care $40 billion to subsidize & provide through Medicaid, etc. Infrastructure: $43 billion for highway and bridge construction transportation, $12 billion for mass transit, $19 billion for water projects & more. Education: $41 billion in grants to local school districts to prevent cuts, $21 billion for school modernization, billions for Head Start. Energy - $32 billion for smart grid, $6 billion to weatherize homes. $10 billion for Science & Tech; $6 billion for high speed internet in rural & underserved areas, $1 billion for 2010 Census. Housing: $13 billion. And so on...

SSDD but now trillions upon trillions.

Posted by: Lola - ALL the 1/6 videotapes from Alexandra and Jade, too. at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (GshMh)

162 >>A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous.

In some old show they had a joke where a rich out of touch woman was asked how much a banana cost and her answer was "It couldn't be more then $10 right?"

Bidenomics is making this joke a reality...

Posted by: 18-1 at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (lc5cP)

163 "Amazon has Valentina at $11.99........"

I saw that! I usually find the giant bottles here in the brick and mortar stores for $2-$3, but a bottle lasts so long, I must admit I haven't priced it in the last 12 months or so.

Therefore I withdraw my remark.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (MvF+J)

164 We're currently seeing a story of two-housing markets where things are doing pretty well in some areas (the economically stronger South) and poorly in others, like California where the tech economy is sagging.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:32 AM (eYoxG)
++++
It has always been that way. Real estate is always local. There are national trends (like rising interest rates), but each local market is its own thing.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:35 AM (O4oKn)

165 I guess the plus is you can buy a savings bond that will pay 7.5% now.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:35 AM (pwExq)

166 >>A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous.

A gallon of Tropicana OJ is over 10 bucks at Acme.

A gallon of milk, a gallon of OJ, a loaf of bread, a dozen eggs, a pound of butter, a pound of bacon and a large bottle of ketchup will run you 50 bucks.

All of those things will fit in one large grocery bag.

THAAAAAT.... Is f**king ridiculous.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 04, 2023 11:31 AM (sNQ62)
-------

Dropped into grocery store to buy a lb of butter (4 sticks). The regular butter was out of stock so I grabbed the next "salted butter" product I could find.

I check out. $10.00 for a pound of butter I go WTF. I pull it out of the bag in the car, look at it....Organic...jeesh.

Posted by: WisRich at May 04, 2023 11:35 AM (G0vdT)

167 TL DR: It's all Trump's Fault!!
- Reddit

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:35 AM (OalnH)

168
I-uh s-s-s,, uh-s-s-s-mell cab-uh, cabbage

yeah

Posted by: John Fetterman at May 04, 2023 11:36 AM (vwCZJ)

169 We're half way walking across a frozen lake and the ice is starting to make strange noises.

Many cities are f*cked from post-Covid changes. Until now the Feds have been plugging this. The budget ceiling fight is about whether this should continue. This affects the Left's core constituencies.

Commerical real estate is especially at risk, which ties to many banks, especially those local and regional.

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (RqMSv)

170 NPR, in part, 4/6/2020: Joe Biden was instrumental in getting the 2009 recovery act through Congress, then supervised the stimulus for the Obama administration.

Ho, ho, ho.

Posted by: Lola - ALL the 1/6 videotapes from Alexandra and Jade, too. at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (GshMh)

171 Bag of m&ms at the local quickie mart.....2.50 dollars. Best economy ever. 16 Oz Bottle of coke. 2. 96. Let's go Brandon!!

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (0Qrr3)

172 Only once in my life (many years ago) did I have enough at one point that I had to worry about FDIC limits, and even back then, I opened up additional accounts at other banks to keep balances under the limits. Today, I live month-to-month with very little left, so not worried about it.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (ynpvh)

173 funny you should mention that, because I was just talking to a real estate guy about that. He told me it probably won't happen, because of the need to build bathrooms (no plumbing in most of those offices), and because windows are required for apartments, while interior office space.

He is thinking these will just stay empty until torn down. ...
Posted by: Huck Follywood at May 04, 2023 11:34 AM (+iiWN)
++++
Likely. Converting office space to residential space is much, much harder and way more expensive than most people think. You can *design* a building to be convertible, but if you didn't then conversion is so difficult and expensive that it is unlikely to be feasible.

Big box stores are another example. When one closes, another big box opens in that space or it gets torn down. Big box stores are big, but they tend to be weak and inflexible buildings that can't be converted to other purposes.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (O4oKn)

174 Real estate turned on a dime where I am about a year ago. It went from 5 offers on the first day a house is listed to houses sitting for 60+ days without an offer. As soon as interest rates started going up, that was it.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:38 AM (OalnH)

175 The question is at this point, is the best strategy hoarding cash and stuff, or go YOLO.

I think that there is a pretty fair chance of economic crash in the next year, and CW2 in the next 5.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:38 AM (pwExq)

176 175 The question is at this point, is the best strategy hoarding cash and stuff, or go YOLO.

I think that there is a pretty fair chance of economic crash in the next year, and CW2 in the next 5.
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:38 AM (pwExq)

=========

Probably better to be the child of one of the elite. Try that.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some more Best Pictures at May 04, 2023 11:39 AM (cD1dp)

177 "A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous."

Yeah, all chips are off the list now. Any 'snack' at any convenience store is going to start at $5. They sell individually packaged onesies of processed cheese and baloney in the freezers.

In Chicago yesterday, $18.50 for a pack of Newport 100s. (For my sister. I'm a Kool guy, and I sure as hell ain't buying any there.)

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:39 AM (MvF+J)

178 "What the bank makes per depositer dollar is the ROA number. Otherwise banks would rapidly compound to being the entire economy." Posted by: Red Turban Someguy

yeah, they have expenses. But once they made the investor banks (like Goldman Sachs) qualify as "banks" (in TARP days I think) ... then there was more leverage in those institutions. And with (still unregulated?) derivatives, not sure if anyone knows what is really out there in the ether.

Supposedly that was an issue with SVB going down, so again middle America bailed out the billion hedge fund players (who had the money to make payroll, but preferred someone else pay)

Posted by: illiniwek at May 04, 2023 11:40 AM (Cus5s)

179 I guess another point of clarity about the fractional reserve thing.

You need $10 of deposits to lend out $9 and keep $1 in reserve at a 10% reserve ratio. Without deposits you can't lend.

The money creation comes from the borrower then spending that money, and the merchant then depositing that $9 at a bank (of which the bank can lend out 90%, so $8.1).

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:40 AM (eYoxG)

180 You can buy the finest in hot sauces at popular prices at Gristedes in Manhattan. NYC continues to innovate and lead the world.

Posted by: Mayor Adams at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (Nn3xT)

181 BlackRock is not currently listed as a SIFI. They have resisted that designation in hopes of avoiding regulation
There are at least a half dozen other asset management firms , with over a trillion $ under management, that could possibly be considered . No more free money is impacting all of them and those of you who have funds in 401ks or a government pension fund . Another aspect of no more free money is large corporations are no longer able to perform stock buy backs to manipulate their stock price . There are too many fires and not enough fire hose

Posted by: Sock Monkey * of the Horde clan at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (95FzE)

182 Oh, linked at Insty:

Half of America’s banks are potentially insolvent - this is how a credit crunch begins

So we got that going for us.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (pwExq)

183 Saw a chyron this morning that the Senate has voted to remove Bidens trade tariff exception for China from Solar panel manufacture China has to pay a tariff such as India etc.China is going to want the big guys 10% back.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (Ym61S)

184 Many cities are f*cked from post-Covid changes. ... Commerical real estate is especially at risk, which ties to many banks, especially those local and regional.
Posted by: Ignoramus at May 04, 2023 11:37 AM (RqMSv)
++++
Not just COVID. There's a double-whammy hitting the central business districts. The other punch is those cities themselves. The CBD areas of our big cities have become filthy, smelly, crime-ridden shitholes. Even businesses returning to the office don't want to be downtown. In some places, this is already causing an inversion in commercial office pricing. Good office space in Seattle's better suburbs is more per square foot than in a Class A office tower in downtown Seattle. Why? Because the city is awful and nobody wants to work there. A nice suburban office park is less risky, and makes your employees happier.

This inversion is hitting other places, too. Class A office space in the CBD will be cheaper than in the decent - let alone good - suburban office parks.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (O4oKn)

185 This is also may be an option for some people (if your bank participates)

https://is.gd/gNdbsT

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (PiwSw)

186 "The question is at this point, is the best strategy hoarding cash and stuff, or go YOLO."

I dunno. Park cash in +4% CDs, keep your powder dry, and hope the stock market crashes hard like it did in 2008-2009. That was an amazing buying opportunity. Like $100 bills littering the streets, waiting to be plucked. YMMV.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:42 AM (MvF+J)

187 I went to a sandwich place last week with my wife. It's not a hole in the wall but it's not 5 star or anything, just a typical independent (ie not a chain) sandwich place. Two sandwiches, she got a lemonade, I got a coffee. $24.

It's fucking insane.

But inflation is totally under control, CNBC says so.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:42 AM (OalnH)

188 177 "A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous."

Yeah, all chips are off the list now. Any 'snack' at any convenience store is going to start at $5.

This was at Walmart!

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:42 AM (pwExq)

189 175 The question is at this point, is the best strategy hoarding cash and stuff, or go YOLO.

I think that there is a pretty fair chance of economic crash in the next year, and CW2 in the next 5.
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:38 AM (pwExq)

Love the optimism.

Ammo prices are lower than they've been in years. As always, stock up, then sit back and watch the fire spread.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 04, 2023 11:42 AM (xcxpd)

190 It was even bad at the local store having a sale on flowers.
Those old bitties are feral. It was brutal, vicious, no quarter asked, none given.
The first old crone came slashing in with her walking stick. I swept the leg and just had time to grab the stick to use on a blue-hair with evil in her eye and her fat ass in a motorized wheelchair. I thrust the stick into the spokes and sent her flying. Behind her, in diamond formation, came the Butt sisters. I throat-punched the first one and set her waddles to quivering. The second took a forearm to the face and that set her back. The other circled warily, her face screwed up in rage and just as she charged, I pointed to a nearby plant stand and shouted “Spider!” Her shriek rattled the bottles in the beer section. With the way clear, I grabbed two of the baskets and made my way to the check stand.
Of course, it didn’t happen like that. I smiled and gallantly stepped aside and let the ladies forge ahead, and I even helped get a basket down for the lady in the wheelchair.
But in my mind, this was choreographed like a John Wick movie.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 04, 2023 11:43 AM (anj39)

191 Real estate turned on a dime where I am about a year ago. It went from 5 offers on the first day a house is listed to houses sitting for 60+ days without an offer. As soon as interest rates started going up, that was it.
Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:38 AM (OalnH)
++++
Prices are holding up in my area, but volumes are way down and time-on-market is up. This is how a housing decline starts. When the price-cutting starts - usually to move a property that the owner *needs* to move and can't wait anymore - it tends to accelerate quickly. Lots of properties on the sidelines - stuff the owners can but needn't sell - floods in as they want to maximize before the declines deepen.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:43 AM (O4oKn)

192 151 "The big bottle of Cholula Hot Sauce is $10. In what world does that equal a good economy?"

Our good economy gives you Valentina pepper sauce, which is just as tasty, and shockingly lower in price.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:29 AM (MvF+J)

Is this the food thread? I put this sh*t on everything:

https://www.flatironpepper.com/

Get a grinder, too.

Posted by: Bacon Jeff at May 04, 2023 11:43 AM (VGRuw)

193 185 This is also may be an option for some people (if your bank participates)

https://is.gd/gNdbsT

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (PiwSw)

I'll keep that in mind should I win the lottery...

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:44 AM (ynpvh)

194 This busty brunette has started gardening to help lessen the pain at the supermarket:
https://is.gd/Cxbgvw

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:44 AM (O4oKn)

195 yeah, they have expenses. But once they made the investor banks (like Goldman Sachs) qualify as "banks" (in TARP days I think) ... then there was more leverage in those institutions. And with (still unregulated?) derivatives, not sure if anyone knows what is really out there in the ether.

Supposedly that was an issue with SVB going down, so again middle America bailed out the billion hedge fund players (who had the money to make payroll, but preferred someone else pay)
Posted by: illiniwek at May 04, 2023 11:40 AM (Cus5s)

Hedge funds, investment banks, and regular banks are basically different things. Regular banks can also be divided into commercial or retail.

An investment bank is a marketing firm, Goldman Sachs isn't really a borrow and lend sort of business, though they did try a failed foray into consumer credit recently.

The hedge funds are broadly unrelated to this stuff, though they are affected by it.

The derivatives in 2008 were insurance products , which encouraged reckless lending as the mortgages were "insured". AIG was a provider of insurance and blew up as a consequence.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:45 AM (eYoxG)

196 "A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous."

Yes, but in addition to all that air, you get 3, count 'em 3 chips.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 04, 2023 11:45 AM (eOEVl)

197 Prices are holding up in my area, but volumes are way down and time-on-market is up. This is how a housing decline starts. When the price-cutting starts - usually to move a property that the owner *needs* to move and can't wait anymore - it tends to accelerate quickly. Lots of properties on the sidelines - stuff the owners can but needn't sell - floods in as they want to maximize before the declines deepen.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:43 AM (O4oKn)

__

Prices in my area are down 10ish % since the peak. It's always a very slow burn with real estate downturns. The last crash took from 2007/8 to 2011/12 (depending on location) to go peak to through.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:45 AM (OalnH)

198 194 This busty brunette has started gardening to help lessen the pain at the supermarket:
https://is.gd/Cxbgvw

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:44 AM (O4oKn)

She's figured out how to make money at home.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:45 AM (ynpvh)

199 This busty brunette has started gardening to help lessen the pain at the supermarket:
https://is.gd/Cxbgvw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:44 AM (O4oKn)

See 190.
None of them looked like her!

Posted by: Diogenes at May 04, 2023 11:46 AM (anj39)

200 194 This busty brunette has started gardening to help lessen the pain at the supermarket:
https://is.gd/Cxbgvw
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:44 AM (O4oKn)

She looks fertile

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 04, 2023 11:46 AM (xcxpd)

201 192 My info was stale, and I withdrew the remark at 163.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:46 AM (MvF+J)

202 196 "A party size bag of Lay's chips is $7! Prices are ridiculous."

Yes, but in addition to all that air, you get 3, count 'em 3 chips.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 04, 2023 11:45 AM (eOEVl)

I can help with that! :::crunches bag to make more chips:::

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:46 AM (ynpvh)

203 Prices are holding up in my area, but volumes are way down and time-on-market is up. This is how a housing decline starts. When the price-cutting starts - usually to move a property that the owner *needs* to move and can't wait anymore - it tends to accelerate quickly. Lots of properties on the sidelines - stuff the owners can but needn't sell - floods in as they want to maximize before the declines deepen.

Here in the DC burbs, the prices have stabilized, but not really dropped. What you see is the good houses selling immediately, and the lesser ones not selling at all.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (eOEVl)

204 $18.50?

For 20 cigarettes?

What the actual fuck?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (zZu0s)

205 196 Lay's chips don't even taste that good. Never did, really. Kind of like the Wonder Bread of potato chips.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (MvF+J)

206 This is also may be an option for some people (if your bank participates)

https://is.gd/gNdbsT
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:41 AM (PiwSw)
++++
That's essentially brokerage sweeps account, just with a local front-end. It probably works well, but I'd have to look into it a lot more deeply.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:48 AM (O4oKn)

207 I know it's anecdotal but our business is beginning to feel a little pain. We have 100% client retention still but requests for new projects have dropped of dramatically and those have always buttered the bread, so to speak.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 04, 2023 11:48 AM (Xrfse)

208 204 $18.50?

For 20 cigarettes?

What the actual fuck?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (zZu0s)

Come to Kalifornia, where you'd need a loan to by a carton.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:48 AM (ynpvh)

209 205 196 Lay's chips don't even taste that good. Never did, really. Kind of like the Wonder Bread of potato chips.
Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (MvF+J)

The secret to Lay's chips? Salt, plenty of it.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at May 04, 2023 11:48 AM (zZu0s)

210 205 196 Lay's chips don't even taste that good. Never did, really. Kind of like the Wonder Bread of potato chips.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:47 AM (MvF+J)

But that's the only way some incels have of getting Layed.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:49 AM (ynpvh)

211 I have a theory that many minorities prefer some crime and other urban dysfunction because it keeps their rents low. I grew up in The Bronx, so ask me why I believe this.

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 04, 2023 11:49 AM (RqMSv)

212 I'll say this: funemployment has really focused our food spending. Eating out is a once every two week thing now. Cooking at home saves a lot of money, I know, shocker.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 04, 2023 11:49 AM (xcxpd)

213 204 That's what I said! I could maybe have bought 20 loosies from the bums standing outside for less that $18.50, but there'd be some nasty Marlboro menthols mixed in there. Yuck.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:49 AM (MvF+J)

214 I don't smoke but I see signs at convenience stores for $5-7 for a pack. That $18 thing is just extra taxes in Illinois.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:50 AM (OalnH)

215 211 I have a theory that many minorities prefer some crime and other urban dysfunction because it keeps their rents low. I grew up in The Bronx, so ask me why I believe this.
Posted by: Ignoramus at May 04, 2023 11:49 AM (RqMSv)

That's really what the anti-gentrification crowd is about.

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (pwExq)

216 214 No doubt.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (MvF+J)

217 That's really what the anti-gentrification crowd is about.
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (pwExq)

__

Can't really blame them.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (OalnH)

218 Yeah I know. I am 29 enough to recall.

Heck my first house was a 7.25% mortgages, so in comparison, LUXURY!

But, they are also double what they were 2 years ago. That has an effect.
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM

Yay. I'm shopping for a house right now. And my rent just went up. Good times.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (Wnv9h)

219 Liquidate everything.
Drown yourself in hookers and blow.
Go out with a big stupid grin on your face.

Posted by: The only rational approach to times like these at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (FEapg)

220 Not one upping but we eat out about twice a year. Mostly because saving but also because eating out has become little more than an expensive crapshoot.

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (PTLob)

221 That's essentially brokerage sweeps account, just with a local front-end. It probably works well, but I'd have to look into it a lot more deeply.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:48 AM (O4oKn)

I've been wondering lately whether money markets can replace ordinary banks.

Private debt seems to be an ok alternative for commercial, and perhaps something similar might work for residential mortgages.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (eYoxG)

222 I don't smoke but I see signs at convenience stores for $5-7 for a pack. That $18 thing is just extra taxes in Illinois.
Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:50 AM (OalnH)
++++
Yup. The excise taxes on cigarettes in New York are entirely counterproductive, though I'm not sure about IL. In NY, no part of the state is all that far from another state or an Indian reservation.

When I was in college, some enterprising young men started bootlegging. They'd take cigarette orders, go to the Rez, buy the cartons, sell 'em to their customers at a modest profit.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (O4oKn)

223 You rich kids and your $7 chips. When I was a child, my brother and I sneaked onto our more prosperous neighbor's yards at night to feast on their pine bark mulch. And we were thankful!

Posted by: Poor, Old, Sap at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (Nn3xT)

224 "Heck my first house was a 7.25% mortgages, so in comparison, LUXURY!"

18% here. 1987. I paid it off quick.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (MvF+J)

225 In Lower Manhattan there have been a couple of buildings that were offices converted to residential.

The Wall Street I worked in back in the early 80's has changed dramatically. Besides the Stock Exchange and BONY, very few financial companies have addresses there anymore.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (qoLdL)

226 Charges are always falling on Hunter Biden, but somehow only seem to land on Trump.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (DhOHl)

227 I don't smoke my pipes that much, but I'm stocking up on a few favorite pipe blends. The 'backy will never be cheaper than it is right now. And who knows who much tax your state will decide to impose on a pouch or tin of tobacco?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (J2vNu)

228 219 YOLO is old and busted. Suicide is the new hotness.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (MvF+J)

229 You want to know what a potato chip is supposed to taste like get your hands on some (non expired) Walker's Crisps.

They are based in the UK. It's mostly in the type of potato used.

Makes our chips seem like the substandard cardboard they are.

Posted by: ... at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (PTLob)

230 Rational transexual rights argument.

https://bit.ly/42apZZt

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (FVME7)

231 on the good news front, there is a bill moving thru congress with bi partian support

to double the capital gain exclusion on the sale of your homestead

backed heavily by the National Realtor Assoc

Posted by: REDACTED at May 04, 2023 11:54 AM (us2H3)

232 Perhaps apropos: PSA has the Exothermic Technologies Pulsefire UBF Underbarrel Flamethrower on sale for $429

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:54 AM (pwExq)

233 When I was in college, some enterprising young men started bootlegging. They'd take cigarette orders, go to the Rez, buy the cartons, sell 'em to their customers at a modest profit.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023

***
Do reservation stores carry pipe tobacco too?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:55 AM (J2vNu)

234 218 Yeah I know. I am 29 enough to recall.

Heck my first house was a 7.25% mortgages, so in comparison, LUXURY!

But, they are also double what they were 2 years ago. That has an effect.
Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 11:26 AM

Yay. I'm shopping for a house right now. And my rent just went up. Good times.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 04, 2023 11:51 AM (Wnv9h)

My first mortgage was 8.25% with penalty for early payment in the first 5 years. I got out of it as soon as I could.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:55 AM (ynpvh)

235 Do reservation stores carry pipe tobacco too?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:55 AM (J2vNu)
++++
No idea. You could call 'em.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (O4oKn)

236 You got pine bark mulch? Man, that's the GOOD stuff!

Posted by: The Other Side of the Tracks at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (DhOHl)

237 Andrew Jackson was right!

Posted by: Unkaren at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (lU72/)

238 I love it when a plan comes together.

Josh Kraushaar@JoshKraushaar
President Biden “has no immediate plans to barnstorm key states with large rallies. He will instead try to burnish his record, and hope Republican infighting continues.”

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)

239 @JoshKraushaar
President Biden “has no immediate plans to barnstorm key states with large rallies. He will instead try to burnish his record, and hope Republican infighting continues.”
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)
++++
Biden Election 2: Basement Boogaloo

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:57 AM (O4oKn)

240 When I was in college, some enterprising young men started bootlegging. They'd take cigarette orders, go to the Rez, buy the cartons, sell 'em to their customers at a modest profit.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (O4oKn)

__

Bro did we go to the same college? I too was part of a similar operation.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:57 AM (OalnH)

241 Now do Schwab and TD centigrade.

Posted by: Muchas buchas at May 04, 2023 11:57 AM (6LQ9Z)

242 222 I don't smoke but I see signs at convenience stores for $5-7 for a pack. That $18 thing is just extra taxes in Illinois.
Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 11:50 AM (OalnH)
++++
Yup. The excise taxes on cigarettes in New York are entirely counterproductive, though I'm not sure about IL. In NY, no part of the state is all that far from another state or an Indian reservation.

When I was in college, some enterprising young men started bootlegging. They'd take cigarette orders, go to the Rez, buy the cartons, sell 'em to their customers at a modest profit.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (O4oKn)

Kali: We want to discourage smoking, so will tax tobacco heavily
Also Kali: We can't understand why the income for tobacco exicise taxes have gone down! We must do something to increase revenues from this source!

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:57 AM (ynpvh)

243 230 Rational transexual rights argument.

https://bit.ly/42apZZt
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (FVME7)

She seems nice.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at May 04, 2023 11:58 AM (PiwSw)

244 223 You rich kids and your $7 chips. When I was a child, my brother and I sneaked onto our more prosperous neighbor's yards at night to feast on their pine bark mulch. And we were thankful!

Posted by: Poor, Old, Sap at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (Nn3xT)

You had pine bark?

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:58 AM (ynpvh)

245 224 "Heck my first house was a 7.25% mortgages, so in comparison, LUXURY!"

18% here. 1987. I paid it off quick.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:52 AM (MvF+J)

Those who did in the late 70's/early 80's had to deal with up to 25% interest rates. Nightmare fuel.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:58 AM (ynpvh)

246 229 We had a brand in Chicago in the 1950s. It was "Yo Ho" or "Yoo Hoo," something like that. Potato chips used to have bubbles, right? Yo Hos had bubbles full of lard. Very tasty! One bag waterproofs your mouth and esophagus for the whole rest of the day. Good for juicers.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:59 AM (MvF+J)

247 Dude WTF was that art thread entry?

Posted by: DB - language, please at May 04, 2023 11:59 AM (geLO8)

248 228 219 YOLO is old and busted. Suicide is the new hotness.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 11:53 AM (MvF+J)

YODO. You only die once (not like James Bond)

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:59 AM (ynpvh)

249 Stand by for a construction boom as downtown office buildings are converted to Section 8 apartments.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 04, 2023 11:28 AM (lTGtQ)

...

No no--equitable housing has to follow the high end real estate. If that flies out of the CBD, then the equitable housing has to move to wherever the money is. I mean, where the "jobs" are. So it's equitable.

Gotta love developers being forced to set aside X percent of space for rent controlled apartments in downtown Austin--where are those people supposed to buy their groceries? Whole Foods? They better get a parking space for that unit and god help them if they ever have to pay to park anywhere but that space downtown...the list goes on. Housing in only one part of the cost of living in a given area.

Posted by: TexasDan at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (z9npv)

250 Ya can eat an entire pine tree, ya know.

Posted by: Zombie Euell Gibbons at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (Xrfse)

251 233 When I was in college, some enterprising young men started bootlegging. They'd take cigarette orders, go to the Rez, buy the cartons, sell 'em to their customers at a modest profit.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023

***
Do reservation stores carry pipe tobacco too?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at May 04, 2023 11:55 AM (J2vNu)

CRV plastics smuggling. CRV in some states is higher than others, so trucks filled with plastic bottles will take them to another state for the $$$.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (ynpvh)

252 Kali: We want to discourage smoking, so will tax tobacco heavily
Also Kali: We can't understand why the income for tobacco exicise taxes have gone down! We must do something to increase revenues from this source!

___

Also Kali: we understand that when you tax something, people buy less of it and find an alternative

Also Kali: what do you mean higher income taxes leads productive workers to leave the state? Krazy talk!!

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (OalnH)

253 245 Yeah we had +10% nominal inflation, and in my town, 25% nominal unemployment. That was the only time in my career I had to take a layoff, but it was very short. At least now, there are some jobs to be had.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (MvF+J)

254 Let's just say the art made us all feel happy. And gay.

Posted by: Just Sayin' at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (DhOHl)

255 Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 11:02 AM (Cay8n)

Stephen King's stupid tweet is just self-flattering nonsense. Has he ever been curious about the shady shenanigans of Hunter's laptop? Has he ever not weighed in with a stupid hot-take w/r/t gun violence? His brilliant epiphany basically boils down to "You know, it's about time we start doing what I've always done and stop doing what I've never done." Gee, thanks for that insight, King.

Posted by: Simple Stevo at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (DqUoy)

256 239 @JoshKraushaar
President Biden “has no immediate plans to barnstorm key states with large rallies. He will instead try to burnish his record, and hope Republican infighting continues.”
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at May 04, 2023 11:56 AM (FVME7)
++++

What would barnstorming by the shambling fungus look like?

Posted by: NL at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (eGTCV)

257 241 Now do Schwab and TD centigrade.

Posted by: Muchas buchas at May 04, 2023 11:57 AM (6LQ9Z)

I read that as centipede.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (ynpvh)

258 How the mighty have fallen:
South Africa’s only driver’s licence card printing machine has broken down — again
The Department of Transport says South Africa’s only driving licence card printing machine has broken down and will take 2–3 weeks to repair.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (O4oKn)

259 YODO. You only die once (not like James Bond)
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 11:59 AM (ynpvh)

I know a guy who was struck by lightning and died, then revived.

He had a real interesting approach to life. Like double YOLO

Posted by: blaster at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (pwExq)

260 Rational transexual rights argument.

https://bit.ly/42apZZt
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

What rights are left? They get both male and female rights.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 12:02 PM (Cay8n)

261 NOODlum.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 04, 2023 12:02 PM (Zz0t1)

262 Posted by: Zombie Euell Gibbons at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (Xrfse)

I saw you at the saw mill...picking up casserole ingredients?

Posted by: BignJames at May 04, 2023 12:02 PM (AwYPR)

263 What would barnstorming by the shambling fungus look like?
Posted by: NL

A shit slick a mile long and wide.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 04, 2023 12:03 PM (Cay8n)

264 cabbage

I am Lump.

Posted by: Fetterman's Lump at May 04, 2023 12:03 PM (Vu7A1)

265 ace is nood. His taunt, furry buttocks clenched as he lifts his spear and stares off into the distance...

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at May 04, 2023 12:04 PM (zZu0s)

266 CRV plastics smuggling. CRV in some states is higher than others, so trucks filled with plastic bottles will take them to another state for the $$$.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at May 04, 2023 12:00 PM (ynpvh)

I've crunched the numbers. You overload your inventory and you blow your margins on gasoline. Trust me, it doesn't work.

Posted by: Kramer at May 04, 2023 12:04 PM (VGRuw)

267 I saw the Barnstorming Shambling Fungus exhibit at Burning Man in 2017. It was cool. If you were stoned.

Posted by: Just Sayin' at May 04, 2023 12:05 PM (DhOHl)

268 258 America's future, if we don't get nuked, and we don't get COVID-23.

Posted by: Hacked gp's Feed Off The Bird at May 04, 2023 12:05 PM (MvF+J)

269 The Department of Transport says South Africa’s only driving licence card printing machine has broken down and will take 2–3 weeks to repair.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 04, 2023 12:01 PM (O4oKn)

___

So 8 weeks.

Posted by: Monetc at May 04, 2023 12:06 PM (OalnH)

270

WASHINGTON ― Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) introduced a bill Thursday that would gradually increase the federal minimum wage to $17 per hour, well over double the current rate of $7.25.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at May 04, 2023 12:09 PM (63Dwl)

271 Aside from the clear equities that should come into play the only, conceivable way I could see any criminal act here would be if after he knew the guy was unconscious, he then held a blood choke for an additional, long period of time (like another 20+ secs after that).

The only video I've seen shows the guy still struggling, in a RNC and with multiple others (ie it wasn't really "on" as to cut off all the flow) or really "on" for a brief period, who then (maybe) appears to go limp on camera.

Then video cuts to guy laying on the ground with everyone separated. No sense of the timing between unconscious and letting the hold off.

And, as multiple people were holding and moving the guy from the front meant that the guy in back really couldn't tell if the guy was limp yet, because he was still moving or being moved all around.

Done BJJ for years. We choke each other out ALL the time. It's the least damaging way you could possibly subdue someone. If the choke wasn't held, obviously, for WAY after the guy was unconscious = conclusive evidence of NO criminality. Yet this time interval is not even discussed by the mob.

Posted by: Zek at May 04, 2023 12:14 PM (5FPX4)

272 Helpful Hint: If you hold a bank account, you can name "Beneficiaries" just as you would on an insurance policy, and allocate the amounts to each, either by % or dollar amounts as low as $1, each named beneficiary to an account also is then insured by the FDIC for $250k. Depending upon individual banks, some which will limit # of beneficiaries, a single account could have $Billions of FDIC coverage with some simple, do it online, account management.
Institutional investors, such as the State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio, one of SVB's largest losers, could have listed hundreds or thousands of their Teachers as beneficiaries and NOT lost $10's of Millions of those teachers hard earned retirement savings.
(Why a Teachers Union in ohio would have dumped soooo much cash into an obscure NorCal Bay Area Bank? That is gonna be a BIG issue within the Union here locally)

Posted by: birddog at May 04, 2023 12:44 PM (uAI4S)

273 "Have you ever eaten a Pine Tree? Some parts ARE edible"-Euell Gibbons

Posted by: birddog at May 04, 2023 01:11 PM (uAI4S)

274 Smokes? NW Ohio, been to four Krogers over the last two weeks, ALL of them out of, or nearly out of, all major brands.
Instead of buying cartons, I am having to buy a couple of packs of whatever they have that is closest to my regular. (Marlboro special blend, red Short). As the result I did happen to discover Marlboro Southern Cut, pretty good, but $1more per pack..

Posted by: birddog at May 04, 2023 01:17 PM (uAI4S)

275 Smokes? NW Ohio, been to four Krogers over the last two weeks, ALL of them out of, or nearly out of, all major brands.
Instead of buying cartons, I am having to buy a couple of packs of whatever they have that is closest to my regular. (Marlboro special blend, red Short). As the result I did happen to discover Marlboro Southern Cut, pretty good, but $more per pack..

FYI -
Be smart if you like to smoke. Roll-your-own. Better and a fraction of the cost. By roll, I mean using a machine such as the PowerMatic III. I do. I make great filter cigarettes for $0.90/pack. Way better than store-bought.

Posted by: Ring O' Fire at May 04, 2023 04:55 PM (J/pqx)

276 Besides Gold and Silver - get ye some bitcoin and hold it!! My stack is up 60% this year and bought more yesterday. Don't laugh until you learn and educate yourself.
FYI - If you are a reader purchase and read, The Creature of Jekyll Island. Written 10-12 years ago. It will tell you everything you need to know. Starting with the cartel FED!!

Posted by: Ring O' Fire at May 04, 2023 05:00 PM (J/pqx)

277 Seems simple to me. Insure the big deposits, but charge them for it; just like any other type of insurance--the larger the policy, the larger the premium. Banks routinely calculate interest daily on accounts, so they can also routinely calculate deposit insurance premiums daily.

It ain't rocket science. Even the geniuses who brought us "quantitative easing" should be able to figure it out.

Posted by: timactual at May 04, 2023 07:00 PM (Cmxuw)

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