<font color="red"><i>Investigatory Reporter Seymour Hersh Files An Incredibly Detailed Report: The US Blew Up the Nord Stream Pipelines on Sheriff Joe's Orders</font></i>

Investigatory Reporter Seymour Hersh Files An Incredibly Detailed Report: The US Blew Up the Nord Stream Pipelines on Sheriff Joe's Orders

You should read the whole thing, if you haven't already done so. It takes about twenty minutes to get through, and it's worth it.

Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22, planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.
...
Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, "This is false and complete fiction." Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: "This claim is completely and utterly false."

The scheme used Navy divers from the Panama City diving school in Florida, not Special Operations personnel, to avoid reporting requirements to Congress:

There was a vital bureaucratic reason for relying on the graduates of the center's hardcore diving school in Panama City. The divers were Navy only, and not members of America's Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership--the so-called Gang of Eight. The Biden Administration was doing everything possible to avoid leaks as the planning took place late in 2021 and into the first months of 2022.

Hersh notes that the US foreign policy establishment had long opposed both Nord Stream pipelines on the grounds that they gave Russia an easy way to sell its gas, and reduced Europe's, and especially Germany's, dependence on the US.

In December of 2021, two months before the first Russian tanks rolled into Ukraine, Jake Sullivan convened a meeting of a newly formed task force--men and women from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, and the State and Treasury Departments--and asked for recommendations about how to respond to Putin's impending invasion.
It would be the first of a series of top-secret meetings, in a secure room on a top floor of the Old Executive Office Building, adjacent to the White House, that was also the home of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB). There was the usual back and forth chatter that eventually led to a crucial preliminary question: Would the recommendation forwarded by the group to the President be reversible--such as another layer of sanctions and currency restrictions--or irreversible--that is, kinetic actions, which could not be undone?
What became clear to participants, according to the source with direct knowledge of the process, is that Sullivan intended for the group to come up with a plan for the destruction of the two Nord Stream pipelines--and that he was delivering on the desires of the President.

Over the next several meetings, the participants debated options for an attack. The Navy proposed using a newly commissioned submarine to assault the pipeline directly. The Air Force discussed dropping bombs with delayed fuses that could be set off remotely. The CIA argued that whatever was done, it would have to be covert. Everyone involved understood the stakes. "This is not kiddie stuff," the source said. If the attack were traceable to the United States, "It's an act of war."

Indeed.

Throughout "all of this scheming," the source said, "some working guys in the CIA and the State Department were saying, 'Don't do this. It's stupid and will be a political nightmare if it comes out.'"
Nevertheless, in early 2022, the CIA working group reported back to Sullivan's interagency group: "We have a way to blow up the pipelines."

This being an "act of war," it was imperative that the US cover its tracks so that Russia would not have a causus belli for its own attack on the United States.

Joe Biden, being demented, did not understand this, and just flat-out announced the US had the intention and capability of blowing up the Nord Stream pipelines:

What came next was stunning. On February 7, less than three weeks before the seemingly inevitable Russian invasion of Ukraine, Biden met in his White House office with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who, after some wobbling, was now firmly on the American team. At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, "If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."
Twenty days earlier, Undersecretary Nuland had delivered essentially the same message at a State Department briefing, with little press coverage. "I want to be very clear to you today," she said in response to a question. "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward."
Several of those involved in planning the pipeline mission were dismayed by what they viewed as indirect references to the attack.
"It was like putting an atomic bomb on the ground in Tokyo and telling the Japanese that we are going to detonate it," the source said. "The plan was for the options to be executed post invasion and not advertised publicly. Biden simply didn't get it or ignored it."

Covert operations have to be reported to Congress.

But CIA lawyers decided that because the senile president had made reference to a plan to blow up the pipelines, it was no longer technically a "covert operation" and they could keep it secret from Congress.

One senses the Deep State makes a lot of these "technically we don't have to obey the law" kind of decisions, especially involving covert actions against the citizenry of the United States.

Biden's and Nuland's indiscretion, if that is what it was, might have frustrated some of the planners. But it also created an opportunity. According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline "no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it."
The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, "There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress. All they had to do now is just do it--but it still had to be secret. The Russians have superlative surveillance of the Baltic Sea."

Ad libbing a Tough Guy Boast about committing a formerly-covert act of war against Russia: That's Our Senile President.

Norway apparently provided the scouting for the right place to attack the pipelines, as well as additional expertise and advice.

The Norwegians also had a solution to the crucial question of when the operation should take place. Every June, for the past 21 years, the American Sixth Fleet, whose flagship is based in Gaeta, Italy, south of Rome, has sponsored a major NATO exercise in the Baltic Sea involving scores of allied ships throughout the region. The current exercise, held in June, would be known as Baltic Operations 22, or BALTOPS 22. The Norwegians proposed this would be the ideal cover to plant the mines.
The Americans provided one vital element: they convinced the Sixth Fleet planners to add a research and development exercise to the program. The exercise, as made public by the Navy, involved the Sixth Fleet in collaboration with the Navy's "research and warfare centers." The at-sea event would be held off the coast of Bornholm Island and involve NATO teams of divers planting mines, with competing teams using the latest underwater technology to find and destroy them.
It was both a useful exercise and ingenious cover. The Panama City boys would do their thing and the C4 explosives would be in place by the end of BALTOPS22, with a 48-hour timer attached. All of the Americans and Norwegians would be long gone by the first explosion.

Hersch reports that Biden -- who infamously advised Obama not to take out Osama bin Ladin -- then got cold feet. The plan had been to set the C4 charges with a 48 hour timer, so that the pipes would blow up two days after they'd been planted.

But now Biden threw a curveball and demanded that the charges be remotely detonated, so he could continue to delay actually deciding whether or not to commit an act of war against Russia or not.

That's an interesting part of the story, and you should read it, but I'm moving on to the media joining the covert operation and pretending that Russia bombed its own pipelines, "just to show how crazy they are" or whatever bullshit they sold the country on.

In the immediate aftermath of the pipeline bombing, the American media treated it like an unsolved mystery. Russia was repeatedly cited as a likely culprit, spurred on by calculated leaks from the White House--but without ever establishing a clear motive for such an act of self-sabotage, beyond simple retribution. A few months later, when it emerged that Russian authorities had been quietly getting estimates for the cost to repair the pipelines, the New York Times described the news as "complicating theories about who was behind" the attack. No major American newspaper dug into the earlier threats to the pipelines made by Biden and Undersecretary of State Nuland.
While it was never clear why Russia would seek to destroy its own lucrative pipeline, a more telling rationale for the President's action came from Secretary of State Blinken.
Asked at a press conference last September about the consequences of the worsening energy crisis in Western Europe, Blinken described the moment as a potentially good one:
"It's a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs. That's very significant and that offers tremendous strategic opportunity for the years to come, but meanwhile we're determined to do everything we possibly can to make sure the consequences of all of this are not borne by citizens in our countries or, for that matter, around the world."
More recently, Victoria Nuland expressed satisfaction at the demise of the newest of the pipelines. Testifying at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in late January she told Senator Ted Cruz, "Like you, I am, and I think the Administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea."

Tucker Carlson has previously been claimed to be "spreading Russia propaganda" by Deep State stenographer and fake ABC "journalist" Jonathan Karl, as well as State Department spokesmen and even Regime Republicans, when he pointed out how insultingly stupid was the cover story that "Russia blew up their own billion dollar pipelines just to show how evil and psycho they are."

It's just so great. I mean, it's perfectly bipartisan here. You have a Republican from Utah, Chris Stewart, and a Democrat from Massachusetts, Seth Moulton, agreeing precisely. It's exactly what Vladimir Putin wants. He wants you to blame the Biden administration for something he did. That's the bipartisan view in Washington. What's interesting is they don't really know that. They have no evidence that that's true. Briefers from the intel agencies have, as of this afternoon, told members of Congress they have no idea who committed industrial terrorism against these pipelines. Now, that itself is a lie, of course. The CIA has no idea at all? Right, they have no idea, but as far as members of Congress, Chris Stewart and Seth Moulton know, there is no evidence either way. They have no facts. That is a fact. They have no facts.
So, again, as a factual matter, neither of those guys nor any member of Congress, no matter what committee they sit on, has any idea who did this, but if you suggest the obvious, Russia probably didn't do it, because why would they do it, it's against their own interest, no matter what dumb story you're trying to sell us, if you suggest that, if you apply common sense, you're evil, and then they go farther and say things that are like completely implausible. Seth Moulton and we're quoting, "The last thing we want is to raise gas prices in Europe." Really? Seth Moulton, is that true? Because isn't the Biden administration philosophically opposed to low gas prices? Aren't they opposed to all fossil fuels? Oh, right, they are. How do we know that? Is that Russian propaganda? No, because we can't read Russian propaganda because it's been banned in favor of our propaganda. We know that because Joe Biden himself has said so many times on television. Okay. So maybe there is a motive here. Maybe there's more than one motive, but don't ask because, warn the media, asking obvious questions is forbidden.
JOSH ROGIN, WASHINGTON POST: Other than Putin and Tucker Carlson, it seems pretty clear that everyone knows that Putin did this himself.
JONATHAN KARL: And Tucker Carlson this past week, actually once again directly repeated Russian propaganda, suggesting it was somehow the United States behind the attack on the Nord Stream pipeline. How real is that movement? Is it growing?

On last night's show, starting at 21:30, Tucker Carlson pointed out that Hersch's report is so filled with details that it seems impossible that it's wrong.

He also notes that not a single media company reported on the story, nor asked any questions about it during the day's White House briefing. "I'm beginning to think this country is North Korea," he says.

It's hard to dispute that.

The cover story that "Russia blew themselves up because they're just that loco" continues being the State-Sanctioned Lie that all Regime stenographers enforce on the "free" citizens of the United States.

Tulsi Gabbard recently commented on Victoria Nuland's essentially-a-confession bragging about making the Nord Stream pipleline a "hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea."

"I think there are two really important things for the American people to take away from what you have just outlined here," Gabbard told Carlson. "Number one, that statement from Victoria Nuland just exposed her and the administration's truth which is that they have been lying to us all along."
"There is no way the United States was not either involved or knew about this or at the very minimum approved it. So they've been lying to us, they've been deceiving us saying, 'Hey, look, the United States had absolutely nothing to do with this,' while also trying to sell us the absurd lie that, well, of course, Russia somehow bombed their own -- exploded their own energy infrastructure to hurt their own economic interest."

"It shows how stupid they think we are that we would buy such an absurd argument," she said. "Their lying to us shows us we can't trust anything that they're saying. You can't trust any of these narratives that are coming out of the mainstream media."
"The second thing that is important to recognize that is very dangerous is that they're setting a precedent through what their statements are and their actions that now that it's now acceptable to go and essentially use sabotage against infrastructure as an acceptable strategy. So we have to look at our own vulnerabilities in this area. Whether it's the undersea cables, our communication systems, our financial systems, our own power grid and energy system vulnerabilities. The list goes on and on."

Posted by: Ace at 01:27 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Yo!

Posted by: Doof at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (ChAEn)

2 In other news...water is wet.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (YIVH2)

3 So, the military was willing to follow Joe's orders on blowing up a Russian pipeline but not when he ordered them to shoot down a Chinese balloon?

Which country owns us again?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (LvTSG)

4 It's so comforting to know that the adults are in charge again.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:28 PM (guGkK)

5 Nooded accordingly

Posted by: Doof at February 09, 2023 01:28 PM (ChAEn)

6 This being an "act of war," it was imperative that the US cover its tracks so that Russia would not have a causus belli for its own attack on the United States.
++++
It already has one.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:29 PM (t0OGg)

7 His name is Seymour Hersh.

Posted by: fr in sc at February 09, 2023 01:29 PM (MuGcl)

8 But...how are they going to blame this on Trump?

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at February 09, 2023 01:29 PM (S7une)

9 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (Zz0t1)

10 Whiterageous!

Posted by: General Milley at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (r6f6k)

11 Seymour Clevarge > Seymour Hersch

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (9UlRk)

12 Have y'all read that first Hunter email with the 21 points? The Biden's didn't give a rats ass about Europe or anyone in the EU going back at least to 2014.

Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (DB6tu)

13 This business will get out of control, and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (guGkK)

14 But...how are they going to blame this on Trump?
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at February 09, 2023 01:29 PM (S7une)

He didn't start any wars. Dems and Big Armament got bored.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (Zz0t1)

15 12 Have y'all read that first Hunter email with the 21 points? The Biden's didn't give a rats ass about Europe or anyone in the EU going back at least to 2014.

Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (DB6tu)

=========

To be completely fair, I don't give a rat's ass about Europe or anyone in the EU.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (LvTSG)

16 I'm no expert at diplomacy/world chess, but if true, I believe this op was a bad idea

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (geLO8)

17 But hang on, wasn't Hersh a douchebag as far back as Vietnam?

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (j+FHS)

18 Remember when the Drooler and Child-Fondler in Chief looked right at the reporter and said (paraphrasing) "oh, they'll be taken out, allright. . . .don't worry. . . it'll happen." Remember what that Leftie Maya Angelou said "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time." No shit. . . . . now, remember back again to what Sundowner Joey Bidet said Tuesday night about 'assault rifles.'

Posted by: Despise Marxist Rat Bastards & Lying DeepFuzzies at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (5DfsO)

19 More and more I find myself rooting for the Russians in all of this.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (guGkK)

20 Waiting for the inevitable pivot to "irresponsible reporter knowingly endangers Americans by exposing covert operations."

Posted by: Dr. T at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (bhRsz)

21 Welding accident. Wrong shirt from cleaner. Diesel is gas vehicle. Moon phase. Switch upside down. Lumbago attack. Reaction to vaccine. But certainly not deliberate, unless bai-din could have ordered it after watching Austin Powers.

Posted by: Eromero at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (1vBNQ)

22 So, the military was willing to follow Joe's orders on blowing up a Russian pipeline but not when he ordered them to shoot down a Chinese balloon?

Which country owns us again?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (LvTSG)
---
I also find that odd...They just obey orders when they find it convenient to their own goals, I guess.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (YIVH2)

23 The cover story that "Russia blew themselves up because they're just that loco" continues being the State-Sanctioned Lie that all Regime stenographers enforce on the "free" citizens of the United States.
++++
This was an obvious lie, and was at the time. This forum was full of speculation, but not that Putin would blow his own pipeline. There are two realistic possibilities:
1. Lack of maintenance resulting in failure
2. State action

If it was door #2, the question is "which state?" The answer to that question being "Russia" or "Germany" never made any sense in the slightest. Why would either country cut its own dick off? The answer to that question being "The United States of America: is much easier to believe, for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is "it will prevent Germany from signing a separate piece or changing direction on this war."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (t0OGg)

24 Jonathan Karl

"Now I have a machine gun. Ho.....Ho.....Ho...."

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:32 PM (Zz0t1)

25 My only concern with this story is that Hersh is often wrong. He's sticking his neck out big time, but I'd really like some confirming evidence. I am unlikely to get it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:32 PM (t0OGg)

26 Months ago, Tucker did a spot on how you can believe we did it, because Joe even threatened to "do something about it", and advised the press not to underestimate what that something could be.

I mean, he probably got "in trouble" for saying it....

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:32 PM (krQz2)

27 According to snakehead, we're all White Trash.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:32 PM (a3Q+t)

28 yep

we're the bad guys

Posted by: BlackOrchid at February 09, 2023 01:32 PM (w0NJk)

29
People poo-poo Hersh just because he is an America-hating Lefty, but for him to report this at least shows he's intellectually honest.

Same deal with Naomi Wolf, Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and the like.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (x0n13)

30 Does Joe actually issue orders?

Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (eGTCV)

31 Hersch is a pathological liar and a psychopath who always believes the worst about the United States. No way this story has any merit whatsoever.

Really digging the Space Ice movie videos in the sidebar, ace. He REALLY REALLY hates Steven Seagal. Heh. As do we all.

Posted by: Sharkman at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (cUWlp)

32 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (GnNvu)

33 purty shore this is gonna take some industrial grade "nuttin gonna happen"

but in the end, NGH

Posted by: sofasaver at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (us2H3)

34 8 But...how are they going to blame this on Trump?
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at February 09, 2023 01:29 PM (S7une)

The Russians blew up their own pipelines 6 times during the Trump administration!

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (UuD2k)

35 Meh. I don't believe this. Joey Shitbrains doesn't have the balls for this. Nobody in the country does. It also makes no sense and isn't remotely worth the risk. Do I smell something fishy about the pipeline? Yes. But I don't believe this.

Posted by: Elric Blade at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (iFTx/)

36 More recently, Victoria Nuland expressed satisfaction at the demise of the newest of the pipelines. Testifying at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing in late January she told Senator Ted Cruz, "Like you, I am, and I think the Administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea."
++++
Victoria Nuland should have been in prison for the past several years, not testifying before congress and going to parties.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (t0OGg)

37 I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies.

The country that I thought I knew has not actually existed since before I was born.

Posted by: Just Lily at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (cABdu)

38 The cover story that "Russia blew themselves up because they're just that loco" continues being the State-Sanctioned Lie that all Regime stenographers enforce on the "free" citizens of the United States.

Posted by: Ace at 01:27 PM

Not exactly surprising.

I will quibble that 'details' in of themselves are validating. Many fantasies can be quite complicated and fleshed out. Ask me about my meeting with Tessa Fowler on a train going through the swiss alps. It involves nazis, a jump into a raging, freezing river, gun fights involving FG-42s left over from WWII after discovering a cache...

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (zZu0s)

39 well TJM I'm somewhat in that boat but leveraging their energy supply for their own wealth in 2014 and cutting their energy off going into winter in 2022 is a bit beyond my scorn fo sho. That's playing with peoples lives big time.

Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (DB6tu)

40 29
People poo-poo Hersh just because he is an America-hating Lefty, but for him to report this at least shows he's intellectually honest.

Same deal with Naomi Wolf, Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and the like.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (x0n13)

=========

American-hating lefty blames America for damage to pipeline is not really some kind of stretch.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (LvTSG)

41 1. Lack of maintenance resulting in failure

this strains credulity as well

multiple explosions conveniently located basically at the same time is why

Posted by: BlackOrchid at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (w0NJk)

42 Taking into account Putin's supposed health crisis - rumored to be terminal - how much more escalation do you think he is willing to take before he ratchets up against the US? If he is truly dying, what would he have to lose?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (N39Ws)

43 The only warning I get from this Story is the fact that Hersh is the Reporter.

Otherwise...yeah, who else would have done this other than GB? And they are our Cats Paw in this type of situation.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (s4qIM)

44 I have pointed it out earlier, but in case you missed it, Germany was moving towards a separate peace with Russia, because they desperately needed the natural gas. The only way to force them into line was to destroy the tempting pipeline.

German industry cannot survive without cheap Russian gas. Both as a fuel and feedstock for their entire manufacturing chain. They cannot do this with American gas or African/middle East gas as the transport costs are too high. They are now in terminal decline. BASF and other major German firms are moving operations out of the country as we speak.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (lTGtQ)

45 I saw this yesterday and become decidedly unenthusiastic when I saw the story was seemingly supported by a single anonymous source. I don't know if this story goes in the "too good to be true" file or something right next to that one.

Posted by: Octochicken at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (oCS0o)

46 Holy smokes! Republican pols being assassinated in NJ:

https://nitter.moomoo.me/i/status/1623692802210013185

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (VBoTR)

47 17 But hang on, wasn't Hersh a douchebag as far back as Vietnam?
Posted by: dagny, first of her name at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (j+FHS)

He made his bones on the My Lai massacre story. While that incident sadly was true, it was used by the Left to smear the entire American Military as the Einsatzgruppen.

And John Kerry rode that pony all the way to infamy and fortune to this day.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (x0n13)

48 If this is true and I have no reason(s) to think it isn't, nothing will happen.

I mean biden and his team conducted an outright act of war on a sovereign nation and nobody cares because it's Russia and they have been painting Russia as the enemy since 2015.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (uNylN)

49 46 Holy smokes! Republican pols being assassinated in NJ:

https://nitter.moomoo.me/i/status/1623692802210013185
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (VBoTR)

Got it in the sidebar.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (x0n13)

50 Seymour Clevarge > Seymour Hersch
Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (9UlRk)

Seymour Titzenass >

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (Zz0t1)

51 Why would either country cut its own dick off?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM

For transnationalism?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (a3Q+t)

52 1. Lack of maintenance resulting in failure

It was a brand new pipeline.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (lTGtQ)

53 I read this morning that the Swiss are actually going to hold members of their government *responsible* for lying to the people about Covid 19.

And I'm sure the press will pretend like its not happening the way they pretended that the Indian government wasn't handing out ivermectin to anybody who came down with C19.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (krQz2)

54 32 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (GnNvu)

Isn't part of the upside for C4 is that is is stable and not really reactive until an electrical current is applied?

Note: I am not familiar with modern military explosives too extensively.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (zZu0s)

55 I still believe the British took out the pipelines but that's me. I'm sure the US was involved but I don't think it was they who acted.

Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (lfSFb)

56 Hersch is a pathological liar and a psychopath who always believes the worst about the United States.

If you don't believe the worst about the feral government, you haven't been paying attention for the last 25 years.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (ZGrMX)

57 Asked for comment, Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, "This is false and complete fiction." Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: "This claim is completely and utterly false."

.. these denials are standard Russian operating procedure

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (RHGPo)

58 >>I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies.

Relativism demands that everyone is the baddie, every time.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (s4qIM)

59 I still think it was just a maintenance issue from shoddy Russian welding.

Posted by: Full-On Retarded Conservative at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (Zqeqr)

60 "The plan was for the options to be executed post invasion and not advertised publicly. Biden simply didn't get it or ignored it."
--------

Just Biden being a "tough guy".

Posted by: Javems at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (AmoqO)

61 USINT is running the country. It's much worse than most people understand - or are capable of facing - and it's going to get so much worse.

If you can accept this, then the context for Trump's stumbling blocks (unintentional self-owns aside), and both recent selections, begins to make sense.

Brandon ain't goin' nowhere so long as he's breathing, the election-rigging is only becoming more solidified, and things are going to get worse in ways most people can't even conceive.

Posted by: insurgens ad opus at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (fIHI1)

62 58 >>I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies.

Relativism demands that everyone is the baddie, every time.
Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (s4qIM)

=========

Except minority women. They are saints.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (LvTSG)

63 I never saw that coming.. Said no one

Posted by: It's me donna at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (bs+z0)

64 Does Joe actually issue orders?
Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (eGTCV)

"He does what I tell him to do , mostly."

- - TOTUS

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (Zz0t1)

65 What pisses me off most is the penny ante nickel fuckery of it all. Everyone is just pissing about doing stupid shit assuming that Actual War won't break out, because "No one wants Actual War", so they do a bunch of asinine bullshit thinking everything will be fine. Which is exactly how shit like World War One happens.

Just wait until one of Soros' kids get popped in some shithole somewhere and suddenly Everyone is at War with Everyone Else, overnight.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (9UlRk)

66 >>>7 His name is Seymour Hersh.

thanks, I think i've fixed the errors now.

Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (C1Zwz)

67 >I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies....
Posted by: Just Lily

If not out-and-out bad guys, we're at the very least not helping

I mean, when was the last time the US swooped in, made everything right, then went home

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (geLO8)

68 USINT is running the country.

-----------------------------------

And the scary part is that they aren't even remotely competent.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (UuD2k)

69 I must have been thinking of Seemore Butts.

Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (C1Zwz)

70 Some interesting details about Russian detection capabilities in that report.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (a3Q+t)

71 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (GnNvu)

"Fire in the HOOOOLE!!!"

Posted by: Boyd Crowder at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (ChAEn)

72 Tucker Carlson pointed out that Hersch's report is so filled with details that it seems impossible that it's wrong.

The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too. You can track the phase of the moon mentioned in the text and find it fits a 28-day schedule, for example.

Yet it's still fiction.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (UJJWg)

73 Except minority women. They are saints.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (LvTSG)

Only the ones with dinks.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (9UlRk)

74 Mmmmmm…Tessa Fowler…mmmmmm…

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (ffbyg)

75 The Russians blew up their own pipelines 6 times during the Trump administration!

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (UuD2k)
---
Not to mention that one time when Trump nuked the world that nobody remembers.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (krQz2)

76 66 >>>7 His name is Seymour Hersh.

thanks, I think i've fixed the errors now.
Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (C1Zwz)

=========

His real name is Seymour Butts.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (LvTSG)

77 I'm betting we still have a thread full of people saying "No, seriously though, I wonder who really blew up Nordstream?"

Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (frXg8)

78 I dunno. There seems a lot to be skeptical about in this report. I'm not saying it isn't true, it just requires some healthy expert review on capabilities, logistics and asset movements.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (M5z+9)

79 Tammy Thorp, a spokesperson for the Central Intelligence Agency, similarly wrote: "This claim is completely and utterly false."

But have 51 American IC leaders signed onto to this denial yet?

That's what I want to know.

*snort*

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (guGkK)

80 Just for nothing I don't think we did it. Too many moving parts.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (bZMpx)

81 I must have been thinking of Seemore Butts.
Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (C1Zwz)

I LOVE his writing style.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (Zz0t1)

82 President Biden is a courageous hero! We have to stand up to Russia since they stole the election for Trump! This is a blow for our precious democracy and freedom!...and the CHILDREN!

Every Lefty Retard Hypocrite in 3, 2, 1......

Posted by: Just sayin at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (Uw44z)

83 So, the military was willing to follow Joe's orders on blowing up a Russian pipeline but not when he ordered them to shoot down a Chinese balloon?

Which country owns us again?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

No, who owns the military, is the question.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (fUnHJ)

84 The scheme used Navy divers from the Panama City diving school in Florida, not Special Operations personnel, to avoid reporting requirements to Congress:

—————-

This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (u73oe)

85 If I want to see more Hersh, I watch Taxi on reruns.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (krQz2)

86 > Does Joe actually issue orders?
Posted by: That Northern skulker

there's a committee
he's a member, but not the last word

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (geLO8)

87 This makes sense. Occam's Razor tells us it's likely what happened (Cui bono? It ain't Russia, and it ain't Western Europe, for starters. But it is us.). But Sy Hersh is in my "Boy Who Cried Wolf" category. If only it was someone respectable reporting it.

Posted by: Wally at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (FJYfm)

88 Meh. I don't believe this. Joey Shitbrains doesn't have the balls for this. Nobody in the country does. It also makes no sense and isn't remotely worth the risk. Do I smell something fishy about the pipeline? Yes. But I don't believe this.
Posted by: Elric Blade at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (iFTx/)
++++
Biden doesn't have the brains or the balls for it.

Does the Pentagon? That is the real question, and the answer might well be, "yes." I have no trouble believing it. Nuland certainly has the balls and the brains for it. Klain might, too. It's a major power play that will cripple German industry, make all of central and western Europe dependent on the United States, keep NATO fully aligned against Russia (for lack of any other choice, because now they're screwed), ensure American energy dominance in Europe for the forseeable future and more.

The potential rewards are manifold, and I think this government is shitty enough - and reckless enough - to try for it. Is what Hersh is reporting the truth? I have no idea. I have no trouble believing that it is *or* that it isn't - but that the US would do this is not at all inconceivable. It's monstrous, but it's who we are now.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (t0OGg)

89 Did I do that?

Posted by: Friendly Neighborhood CIA Officer at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (0A5+1)

90 If the attack were traceable to the United States, "It's an act of war."

--------

This asshole is out of control. He's out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

"Give me a nuke, Vasili. One nuke only, please."

Flaming mushroom-cloud skull-worthy?

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (pUZyl)

91 Not very many people are noting that this was also an attack on an ostensible ally, Germany.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (iKBwy)

92 This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (u73oe)

If you don't want something leaked, you don't brief Congress.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (UuD2k)

93 Tucker Carlson pointed out that Hersch's report is so filled with details that it seems impossible that it's wrong.

The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too.

Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)

94 Huh. Sounds like an act of war.

Posted by: T C at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (g7nnY)

95 I just re-read all his "controversies." Where once I would have dismissed his america-hating, I'm now more likely to believe him, not because I hate America but because we now know that the government is corrupt AF, esp IC.

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (j+FHS)

96 40 American-hating lefty blames America for damage to pipeline is not really some kind of stretch.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (LvTSG)

Except 99% of America-hating lefties are 100% of the time in CYA and excuse-making mode for their fellow travelers.

Hersh has serious baggage regarding his personal animus to the USA, but he is not wrong here and in fact is performing actual journalism.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (x0n13)

97 93 Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)

=========

It's just what the Sacksville-Bagginses would do!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (LvTSG)

98 >>>31 Hersch is a pathological liar and a psychopath who always believes the worst about the United States. No way this story has any merit whatsoever.

Well, I'm starting to agree with his general take on the Regime.

>>>Really digging the Space Ice movie videos in the sidebar, ace. He REALLY REALLY hates Steven Seagal. Heh. As do we all.

I've watched a lot of the videos three times.

Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (C1Zwz)

99 Reminiscent of Funny Mustache, Heydrich, and the guys faking an attack by the Poles on the Gleiwitz radio station.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (FVME7)

100 Biden and his cohort couldn't care less about Russia except as it serves as an Oceania/Eastasia distraction and a means of consolidating domestic power.

Posted by: Ordinary American at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (H8QX8)

101 81 I must have been thinking of Seemore Butts.
Posted by: ace at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (C1Zwz)

I LOVE his writing style.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (Zz0t1)

.....

Under the Bleachers was one of my favorite books growing up.

Posted by: Full-On Retarded Conservative at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (Zqeqr)

102 Never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up

Posted by: The JEF at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (M+Lyo)

103 For transnationalism?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (a3Q+t)
++++
The whole point of transnationalism is that you get play empire games and set direction. Germany won't be doing that without an industrial economy, and they're not going to have much an industrial economy when this all shakes out and it won't stop Russia if that's their goal. This is why they keep going after Russian shipping and the transportation of Russian energy products through the insurance market and with other tactics.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (t0OGg)

104 After the past 6 years I have no problem believing every word of this.

Posted by: Fool Otto at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (DB16e)

105 Interesting corralary article at Insty, how the government is so far gone--because they are infested with no-nothing but high-credentials ideaologs-- from doing their jobs, that all they are good at anymore is lying.

The official story here was always a lie. Everyone knew Russia didn't blow it.
A lie we were forced to hear to prop up their war in Ukraine.
But, that lie was just a lie to cover up another lie.
This story is a step from one lie to another-- we're still a bit from the truth.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (H4uE3)

106 If I want to see more Hersh, I watch Taxi on reruns.
Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (krQz2)

Or how about Dear John?

Posted by: Doof at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (ChAEn)

107 >>The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too.

Why is everyone looking at me?

Posted by: Tom BOMBadil at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (s4qIM)

108 He didn't start any wars. Dems and Big Armament got bored.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (Zz0t1)

Right. Opposition to Trump was because of his foreign policy. That's the reason.

He coalesced a generationally persistent electoral coalition opposed to violent foreign action. "Isolationist" but only militarily.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (1ais2)

109 Tucker Carlson pointed out that Hersch's report is so filled with details that it seems impossible that it's wrong.

The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too.

Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)

Or at least someone who launched into a long, pointless poem.

Posted by: Wally at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (FJYfm)

110 91 Not very many people are noting that this was also an attack on an ostensible ally, Germany.
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (iKBwy)

The Junta is pissed at the Krauts for slow-walking aid to the Ukrainians because they need Putin's oil.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (x0n13)

111 80 Just for nothing I don't think we did it. Too many moving parts.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (bZMpx)

Betting on incompetence is usually a good bet.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (zZu0s)

112 Putin called the US "an empire of lies".

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (44ww/)

113 This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM

To congress= oversight

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (j+FHS)

114 So the US blew it up to punish Germany? I mean its not like Putin can't sell his gas/ oil to other markets.

I'm thinking there is another reason why they wanted to destroy those pipelines and Putin provided them with an excuse. Also, Biden baited him into invading, essentially inviting a little invasion. The whole thing is fantastically weird. I mean Sy Hersch is Hillary's Renfield, so really who the hell knows what to think.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (8DSrd)

115 "If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the ... border of Ukraine again, then there will be ... no longer a Nord Stream 2. We, we will bring an end to it," Biden said. Asked how, given the project is in German control, Biden said: "I promise you, we'll be able to do it."

https://tinyurl.com/22jjpuw3

Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (frXg8)

116 96 Except 99% of America-hating lefties are 100% of the time in CYA and excuse-making mode for their fellow travelers.

Hersh has serious baggage regarding his personal animus to the USA, but he is not wrong here and in fact is performing actual journalism.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (x0n13)

========

Meh. You brought up Glenn Greenwald as well. Greenwald is someone I still don't trust. He went against the narrative regarding Russian collusion, and I don't think it's because he is dedicated to the truth. I think he was just defending Russia.

Nah. These people will throw American establishment liberals to the rhetorical wolves, and they often do.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (LvTSG)

117 Hmmm... and Chief of Staff Klain, resigned... so can't be called by Congress in a normal oversite role.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (oHd/0)

118 This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (u73oe)
++++
Keeping it in the family makes some degree of sense.

Hersh is really sticking his neck out on this, and he is not a historically reliable source. He'd better have receipts - and he'd better make sure those receipts are attached to a dead-man switch.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (t0OGg)

119 The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too. You can track the phase of the moon mentioned in the text and find it fits a 28-day schedule, for example.

Yet it's still fiction.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (UJJWg)

the main difference is the end in this drama result actually happened

Posted by: sofasaver at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (us2H3)

120 We were afraid the Europeans would get cold and lose their resolve, so we fortified their backbones.

Posted by: DFCtomm at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (xge03)

121 Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)
---
I hates hobbitses!!

Posted by: Gollum at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (krQz2)

122 Sounds legit. Now what?

Posted by: Maj. Healey at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (D25PY)

123 >Putin called the US "an empire of lies".

Posted by: BourbonChicken

is he wrong?

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (geLO8)

124 Norms Restored, right Con Inc?

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (TNyrE)

125 Not very many people are noting that this was also an attack on an ostensible ally, Germany.
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (iKBwy)

It's an attack on the German People. The cultists running the joint would jump for glee at eeeeevil fossil fuels not coming in, AND not having to take the blame for it. Let the peasants freeze. It's Putin's fault.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (9UlRk)

126 If you don't want something leaked, you don't brief Congress.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (UuD2k)

—————

I get that, but why be concerned with briefing congress? Just ignore the requirement.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (u73oe)

127 An example of Biden's chimp-with-a-machinegun foreign policy.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (FVME7)

128 It's just a coincidence that Burisma is in the natural gas business in Ukraine. Cui bono?

[h/t Bongino]

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (LPCDR)

129 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (x0n13)

The first may be a political hit job, or some Nigerian Muslim who doesn't like Christians (she was from Nigeria) or a domestic dispute, but the second one took place fairly close to where the church I serve is, and the man who shot the other guy was an ex employee, so that sounds more like workplace violence against someone he perceived who wronged him and fired him.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (D+F6R)

130 Wonder how Putin will retaliate. If he does anything at all. Might unload all the dirt he's got on rezident retard out of spite.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (Q4IgG)

131 Why would the U.S bomb a high end department store?

Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (eGTCV)

132 Sounds legit. Now what?
Posted by: Maj. Healey at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (D25PY)
++++
Nothing. The war in Ukraine will grind on and nobody in Europe will consider changing direction because they utterly depend on us now. Putin remains a wildcard, and if he lets fly with the nukes, then he lets fly with the nukes.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (t0OGg)

133 But hang on, wasn't Hersh a douchebag as far back as Vietnam?
Posted by: dagny, first of her name

Attacking the messenger is a fallacy. The truth is true no matter who says it. This is why criminals are allowed to testify in court against other criminals. What people are doing here regarding Hirsh is literally no different than what progs do when you link to a true article at Breitbart. "Breitbart? LOL"

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (iKBwy)

134 122 Sounds legit. Now what?
Posted by: Maj. Healey at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (D25PY)

========

They get away with it. The GOP doesn't even hold a hearing about it (they need to yell at former Big Tech employees and Ticketmaster instead). The news is forgotten in a week.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (LvTSG)

135 The only way I believe Biden would order the pipeline be blown up is if China told him to. China is hoping to corner all of Russia's energy exports. See the pipelines being built.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (bZMpx)

136 No, who owns the military, is the question.

====

The dudes who wear yellow-blue ties and wave yellow -blue flags?

Posted by: runner at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (6F7eb)

137 It is all unnamed sources. That being said, Biden is fucked up enough to do something like this

Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (M+Lyo)

138 You mean you accept the Sy Hersh story of US involvement, like at face value?

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (vN+oL)

139
I mean biden and his team conducted an outright act of war on a sovereign nation and nobody cares because it's Russia and they have been painting Russia as the enemy since 2015.
Posted by: Mister Scott

The 'sovereign nation' schtick is getting old.
-Some people blow a pipeline.
-Iran sponsors terrorism all over the world.
-China spies on multiple countries using balloons.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (Q2OxF)

140 It is all unnamed sources. That being said, Biden is fucked up enough to do something like this

Yeah, that's where I am. Plausible.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (0hOvj)

141 Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (8DSrd)

India is set to become the fastest growing economy in the world.... partly due to cheap Russian Oil.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (oHd/0)

142 If I want to see more Hersh, I watch Taxi on reruns.
Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (krQz2)

Or how about Dear John?
Posted by: Doof at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM (ChAEn)
---
I watch that for Jere Burns, who steals that show.

Posted by: Gollum at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (krQz2)

143
Ray Epps says this is not true

Posted by: Yo! Ultra MAGA at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (5FyHa)

144 The Junta is pissed at the Krauts for slow-walking aid to the Ukrainians because they need Putin's oil.

The Kraut government probably doesn't mind eeeevil oil not coming in (they were promoting video of a demolition company blowing up one of their nuclear power plants last week, feel the greenness!), but Kraut industry and the Kraut people sure do.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (ZGrMX)

145 Wonder how Putin will retaliate. If he does anything at all. Might unload all the dirt he's got on rezident retard out of spite.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (Q4IgG)
++++
I doubt that whatever plans Putin has or whatever game Putin is playing will be changed by this if it's true. What do you think the odds are that Putin didn't already know what caused Nordstream to fail?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (t0OGg)

146

SH destroyed his credibility years ago. If he's going to be taken seriously he's going to have to be able to document sources not just base his claims on unnamed whistleblowers. We're talking an act of war against Russia. Pissing out " he said this she said that " in his usual bombastic b******* fashion does nothing but a dangerous all. If it's true, and it very well may be, it has to be proved.

I offer you 100% utter guarantee that both the pentagon and the CIA already had plans in place for destroying this ever since construction started. That's what they do. There would be no reason for the PFIAB to try and reinvent the wheel. All they would have to do is open the notebooks and see the contingency options.

Unless of course they were denied access or, plausibly, the entire upper level of this administration both political appointee and permanent civil servants are so incompetent they don't even know that.

Facts. Proof. Anything less....

Posted by: Hunter Bidet, Running Down Jill's Inner Thigh at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (rbv8d)

147 People poo-poo Hersh just because he is an America-hating Lefty, but for him to report this at least shows he's intellectually honest.
Same deal with Naomi Wolf, Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald and the like.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (x0n13)

American-hating lefty blames America for damage to pipeline is not really some kind of stretch.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (LvTSG)

Exactly. The anonymous source is just the cherry on top for not buying into Hersh's story.

Could it be true? Sure. Russia blowing up its own pipeline was always stupid as hell. They could just "turn off the spigot" if they wanted to stop the oil flow. It could easily be other things as well.

I'm going to need a far better source than Seymour "I Fucking hate America" Hersh plus BONUS Anonymous source before I buy into it.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (KLPy8)

148 Why would the U.S bomb a high end department store?
Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (eGTCV)

heh

Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (M+Lyo)

149 46 Holy smokes! Republican pols being assassinated in NJ:
___

Nothing to see here, move along...

Posted by: "News" Media at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (fs1hN)

150 I've been wanting to talk about this for a while now, but I've never quite found a way to bring it up in the comments without sounding insane.

Everyone: the conflict in Ukraine is not a result of "Russian aggression", nor is it "going poorly" for the Russians. The Russians are bleeding their enemy, the West, out dry and the imperialists in Western government either don't realize or don't care that they are losing the conflict, and badly.

This was not just an act of war against Russia, it was an attack on Europe, most particularly the EU, most particularly Germany, which we must all understand to be vassal states of an empire that is fatally wounded.

There is a lot of wild stuff going down. I recommend reading "Reminisnce of the Future", "Moon of Alabama", SONAR21, and other sites to get some alternative takes on the conflict being waged in Europe. We are in very interesting times.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (ZZUGK)

151 A Russian Pipeline gets blown up and we didn't have any thing to do with it

try selling that to Hollywood

Posted by: sofasaver at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (us2H3)

152 In other news of the Ride of the Four Horsemen . . .

Second N.J. Republican council member shot dead just a week after the first — will MSM care?

https://bit.ly/3jErw9n

-
They didn't care about the ghey activist adoptive parents.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (FVME7)

153 I really don't need an excuse to go fetch more ammo, but this'll do fine.

Posted by: BifBewalski at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (3CCua)

154 Attacking the messenger is a fallacy. The truth is true no matter who says it. This is why criminals are allowed to testify in court against other criminals. What people are doing here regarding Hirsh is literally no different than what progs do when you link to a true article at Breitbart. "Breitbart? LOL"
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (iK

Truth hasn't been established. As such you still consider the credibility of the person giving the story.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (bZMpx)

155 Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)

Hobbiton, shit. I'm still only in Hobbiton. Every time I think I'm going to
wake up back in the Mirkwood. When I was home after my first tour,
it was worse. I'd wake up and there'd be nothing...
I hardly said a word to my wife until I said yes to a divorce.
When I was here I wanted to be there. When I was there, all I
could think of was getting back into the woods.
I've been here a week now. Waiting for a mission, getting
softer. Every minute I stay in this room I get weaker. And every minute Baggins squats in the bush he gets stronger...

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (wmDcS)

156 I can see the agency and certain Pentagon elements being squirrely on this type of action as a tactical measure. Turnabout is fair play and attacking undersea assets represents a whole new front. But if you think this through, it's hard to believe anyone, no matter how dense, would use this as a measure to keep the Germans onboard with Ukraine. Why this pipeline? The Russians have numerous other pipelines into Europe.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (M5z+9)

157 More and more I find myself rooting for the Russians in all of this.
Posted by: Cicero

Between Russia and our Satan-worshipping Western cabal, the choice was easy for me, from day one.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (iKBwy)

158 Biden doesn't have the brains or the balls for it.

Does the Pentagon? That is the real question, and the answer might well be, "yes." I have no trouble believing it. Nuland certainly has the balls and the brains for it.
==
So if you are in NATO, say like Germany. And you find out that your allies attacked your fuel supply, what rights do you have under NATO treaty as against "allies". I can't imagine they'd be putting money into NATO going forward without extracting some kind of compensation restitution.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (v/57k)

159 >It is all unnamed sources. That being said, Biden is fucked up enough to do something like this

you mean the circle of people running him

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (geLO8)

160 Ace! You are indeed the man! Thanks so much for the link to Tucker's October 5 tour de force on Gramps' pipeline terrorism. I watch Tucker on the internet the morning after not wanting to subscribe to cable after all. He varies from 8 to 10 on a scale of 1 to 10 and October 5 was an eleven.

I had the October 5 TCT bookmarked until the bookmark went dead and now you've given me a new one. Thanksl

There is nothing more satisfying than mockery of Gramps and his maidservants in the legacy media particularly when the mocking is done with passion and humor.

Posted by: Wade Hampton at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (Su9Le)

161 116 Nah. These people will throw American establishment liberals to the rhetorical wolves, and they often do.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:41 PM (LvTSG)

Give me one prime example of this happening pre-Obama.

Again, the politics of those mentioned my be abhorrent or at best, out of phase with my beliefs. But the fact that they are honest enough to honestly report COVID, Collusion and now this shit is something to be commended.

The so-called legacy media are doing jack shit and worse, acting as propagandists.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (x0n13)

162 >>India is set to become the fastest growing economy in the world.... partly due to cheap Russian Oil.

Betting on India getting their shit together...that's not for me.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (s4qIM)

163 you mean the circle of people running him
Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (geLO

Yup.. His puppet masters

Posted by: It's me donna at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (bs+z0)

164 Putin says the sky is blue.

You're not going to side with Putin, are you?

Posted by: Gollum at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (krQz2)

165 161 Give me one prime example of this happening pre-Obama.

Again, the politics of those mentioned my be abhorrent or at best, out of phase with my beliefs. But the fact that they are honest enough to honestly report COVID, Collusion and now this shit is something to be commended.

The so-called legacy media are doing jack shit and worse, acting as propagandists.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (x0n13)

========

LBJ?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (LvTSG)

166 And just like that, “LawDog” joined Scott Adams in the pantheon of Blowhard Internet Jag-offs.

Posted by: Thirdtwin at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (+mdG4)

167 Gee. Maybe the big guys wants wars.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (slG0i)

168 55 I still believe the British took out the pipelines but that's me. I'm sure the US was involved but I don't think it was they who acted.
Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (lfSFb)

It's also interesting Hersh didn't mention London. We know of the txts about 'it's done" etc etc.

Maybe London fed the info to Hersh.

Scum of the earthm

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (1ais2)

169 Meh. I don't believe this. Joey Shitbrains doesn't have the balls for this. Nobody in the country does. It also makes no sense and isn't remotely worth the risk. Do I smell something fishy about the pipeline? Yes. But I don't believe this.
Posted by: Elric Blade at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (iFTx/)

Neither does the entire war they forced on Ukraine, militarily its idiotic. Yet they refused all negotiations beforehand, and now publicly admit they had lied about enforcing a peace treaty and armed Ukraine to fight Russia for years.

Also, stripping your own military while provoking a war is double-plus stupid, yet the EU and UK are doing it, and the US has stripped its artillery stocks.

You need to recalibrate your view of what sense is with these pukes. They stand thousands of miles off and draw nice lines on the map with sharpies, not caring about the reality of war and the people on both sides who do the dying.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (eoQWY)

170 Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (wmDcS)

First Blood?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (zZu0s)

171 Truth hasn't been established. As such you still consider the credibility of the person giving the story.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (bZMpx)
++++
Bingo, and Hersh has little. This is entirely a "sources say" thing - which is why I posted up there somewhere that he'd better have the receipts. I have no trouble at all believing that we blew the pipeline, but Hersh is pretty light on actual evidence for it - which is why I suspect there will be (or rather, I suppose, there'd better be) another chapter on this forthcoming with some harder points of evidence.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (t0OGg)

172 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (FVME7)

The don't care, but in the second incidence they both worked together at PSEG and the guy who was shot was supposedly a supervisior of the guy who shot him and the shooter had been fired.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (D+F6R)

173
84 The scheme used Navy divers from the Panama City diving school in Florida, not Special Operations personnel, to avoid reporting requirements to Congress:

US Navy Divers ARE Spec OPs.

Welcome to the party Ace.

Posted by: Auspex at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (j4U/Z)

174 This is insane.
Remember how those generals didn't follow Trump's orders because they were too aggressive?
But setting the stage for WW3 is fine.
Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.
Seems to be relevant.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (Y+l9t)

175 I dunno. There seems a lot to be skeptical about in this report. I'm not saying it isn't true, it just requires some healthy expert review on capabilities, logistics and asset movements.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM

Pretty easy actually, barely an inconvenience.

The explosives were planted during BALTOPS 2022. US Navy submarines were present during that exercise and most now can carry the SDV that SEALs use. They had saturation divers trained up and they join the sub for the *exercise*. Totally normal stuff happens and the sub launches the SDV with the divers in a routine training evolution. The divers go down, plant the explosives and come back to the sub and then everyone leaves after the exercise is over.

The submarine crew has no clue what they did, though some of the smarter ones may have put two and two together by now, so no leaks there. Less than 25 military people need to be in the know for this to happen.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (uNylN)

176 I'm going to need a far better source than Seymour "I Fucking hate America" Hersh plus BONUS Anonymous source before I buy into it.

There was also something about the UK PM telling Blinken "it's done" right as the pipeline blew up.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (ZGrMX)

177 War is profitable.
Massive fortunes are gained by the weapons dealers from war.
The Pentagon is totally captured by the weapon manufacturers.
Yes, they will--and have--prevoked wars merely to sell arms.
And the Pentagon loves it because wars = promotions.

So what if it's our blood and our treasure?

We're not patriotic if we don't salute whatever flag the military hoists.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (H4uE3)

178 it is all unnamed sources. That being said, Biden is fucked up enough to do something like this
+++++++

Biden wears diapers and gets laughed at while he's giving the SOTU address. He's a nasty man that got old and senile. Call him evil Grandpa. However, nobody has officially come up with a term for what the executive branch has become. A cabal? I guess we should just refer to it as "The Biden Administration".

Posted by: DFCtomm at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (xge03)

179 CTRL-F "Article 5 Nato"

no search results.

Seems to me nato was attacked by ... nato/.

Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (MLrvz)

180 >>> 39 well TJM I'm somewhat in that boat but leveraging their energy supply for their own wealth in 2014 and cutting their energy off going into winter in 2022 is a bit beyond my scorn fo sho. That's playing with peoples lives big time.
Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (DB6tu)

You haven't been keeping up with our work so far, have you?

Posted by: WEF at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (llON8)

181 'Investigatory Reporter' can & should be replaced by 'Conspiracy Monger'.

Not that I wouldn't put it past this administration to have blown up the Nord Stream pipelines, but it's a lot to hang on the word of a nut job.

Posted by: aelfheld at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (Zy9Yy)

182 15 12 Have y'all read that first Hunter email with the 21 points? The Biden's didn't give a rats ass about Europe or anyone in the EU going back at least to 2014.

Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:30 PM (DB6tu)

=========

To be completely fair, I don't give a rat's ass about Europe or anyone in the EU.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:31 PM (LvTSG)
----
I know what you mean but I have family in England and friends in Scotland so I can't be sweepingly cavalier about it.

Posted by: Ciampino -- like green and black mambas at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (qfLjt)

183 Seymour hasn't had a great record in recent years.[/] Naming the US Navy as the saboteur is really provocative, I am sure Putin and his gang will use this posting to claim this is a direct attack on Russian property by the United States.

Hersh is a journalistic legend. His work tends to get supported when he exposes malfeasance under a GOP administration, and attacked when it's the other party. That's just the truth of it

His recent stuff, particularly on the Iranian nuclear threat and the threat of Iran starting another war hasn't been quality.

Bullshit! Pro-Putler propoganda on the part of Hersh if he is making that accusation. He has lost his professional mind

Did we really have the motive? I mean, it could have potentially been a two-edged sword. OTOH, we certainly want Europe to stop using Russian energy. OTOH, doing that, at that time, could have potentially caused Europe to suffer a very tough winter and weakened their resolve. The German's were already waffling because of their "need" for Russian energy.

If it was the US, it was a pretty big gamble.

Posted by: Intrepid Democratic Underground AoS Liaison at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (AjVcg)

184 Taking into account Putin's supposed health crisis - rumored to be terminal - how much more escalation do you think he is willing to take before he ratchets up against the US? If he is truly dying, what would he have to lose?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (N39Ws)

A question I would pose instead, and I do not mean this as hostile in any way, I mean this sincerely; ask yourself why you would believe anything Western media and leadership tells you about the world beyond our borders, and the conflicts therein?

As the next few years unfold, keep a sharp eye out and trust nothing we are told domestically, and only half of what you read or see from abroad. The war going on right now has nothing to do with Russian aggression, and everything to do with the collapse of the American empire.

We export only Boeing, debt, and bloodshed, and the piper is now starting to be paid.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (ZZUGK)

185 It's possible Hersh was fed some false info so the whole story will be discredited by the government media and we'll never know who for sure blew them up, but it was probably that crazy madman Putin. Or, more likely, the US did the deed.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (fs1hN)

186 179 CTRL-F "Article 5 Nato"

no search results.

Seems to me nato was attacked by ... nato/.
Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (MLrvz)

==========

I look forward to Germany's one working fighter jet facing down the US military.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (LvTSG)

187 So if you are in NATO, say like Germany. And you find out that your allies attacked your fuel supply, what rights do you have under NATO treaty as against "allies". I can't imagine they'd be putting money into NATO going forward without extracting some kind of compensation restitution.
Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (v/57k)
++++
None, and they will probably pay even less than they do now but they have little if any choice in the matter at this point. They're fucked, and they know it. Fucked forever. They withdraw from NATO and join the war on the Russian side, or they do nothing. And they won't be quitting NATO and invading Ukraine through a bunch of NATO territory, including territory belonging to Poland which probably has the strongest army in Europe.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (t0OGg)

188 >I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies....
Posted by: Just Lily

If not out-and-out bad guys, we're at the very least not helping

I mean, when was the last time the US swooped in, made everything right, then went home
Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (geLO

Probably WWI.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (eoQWY)

189 > The scheme used Navy divers from the Panama City diving school in Florida,...to avoid reporting requirements to Congress

why would they follow the law

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (geLO8)

190 Second N.J. Republican council member shot dead just a week after the first — will MSM care?

https://bit.ly/3jErw9n
---
They don't belong in New Jersey!

Posted by: NJ's Kathy Hochul at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (krQz2)

191 That's an interesting part of the story, and you should read it, but I'm moving on to the media joining the covert operation and pretending that Russia bombed its own pipelines, "just to show how crazy they are" or whatever bullshit they sold the country on.

----------

"Here, hold my water." -- Marco Rubio

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (rp3uN)

192 Remember how a dozen or so times during the Iraq war that the FNM told us Shrub committed war crimes and should be impeached?

THIS is a war crime.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (lc5cP)

193 If one wonders whether Joe Biden himself is directly involved in a given action or policy decision, the test is whether the action or policy decision is the most outrageously, impossibly stupid, shortsighted, and disastrous action or decision imaginable, and voila! There he is.

Posted by: troyriser at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (7Cx1V)

194 135 Hmmm, the theory that China was behind it actually makes a lot of sense.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (ffbyg)

195 I don't want to hear any whining when the Russians start breaking our pipelines.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (iayUP)

196 If Seymour Hersh reported the sun rises in the East, I'd want some verification. The guy was right, once, 50 years ago and a fount of misinformation since.

Posted by: Bud Norton at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (6cOMd)

197 195 I don't want to hear any whining when the Russians start breaking our pipelines.
Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (iayUP)

=========

"Just buy a Tesla. Also we're arresting Elon Musk."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (LvTSG)

198 "Under the Grandstand" by C. Moore Butz was a best-seller in the 1970s.

Posted by: Sasquatch, the Original Trans-Wookie at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (WDYfZ)

199 What's really amusing is that our German allies are willing to impoverish and freeze their own citizens and deindustrialize their country rather than call out Gramps and his fascist regime for their act of terrorism against Germany.

Posted by: Wade Hampton at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (Su9Le)

200 So what they’re saying is that at the very least Trump gets a do over.

Posted by: Beavis or Butthead at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (glGDV)

201 Probably WWI.

Even that's not quite true - the settlement at the end of WWI led directly to WWII. But that fits neatly into "Woodrow Wilson: History's Greatest Monster".

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (ZGrMX)

202 I will quibble that 'details' in of themselves are validating. Many fantasies can be quite complicated and fleshed out. Ask me about my meeting with Tessa Fowler on a train going through the swiss alps. It involves nazis, a jump into a raging, freezing river, gun fights involving FG-42s left over from WWII after discovering a cache...
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (zZu0s)

Aren't they MG-42s?

Everything else fit, now a myth exploded.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (eoQWY)

203 There was also something about the UK PM telling Blinken "it's done" right as the pipeline blew up.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (ZGrMX)

I think that was about Biden farting on the royals

Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (M+Lyo)

204 all this cuz Putin hates gays

Posted by: sofasaver at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (us2H3)

205 199 What's really amusing is that our German allies are willing to impoverish and freeze their own citizens and deindustrialize their country rather than call out Gramps and his fascist regime for their act of terrorism against Germany.
Posted by: Wade Hampton at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (Su9Le)

=========

They literally cannot stand alone militarily.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (LvTSG)

206 The Kraut government probably doesn't mind eeeevil oil not coming in (they were promoting video of a demolition company blowing up one of their nuclear power plants last week, feel the greenness!), but Kraut industry and the Kraut people sure do.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:43 PM (ZGrMX)

The Greens have always been CIA. Note their pedo stuff.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (1ais2)

207 147 I'm going to need a far better source than Seymour "I Fucking hate America" Hersh plus BONUS Anonymous source before I buy into it.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (KLPy

Seymour Hersh hates America and yet he reports something of this magnitude that his fellow travelers have done?

OK, he's a rabid lefty. But that doesn't discount this report especially because it's Democrats doing it.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (x0n13)

208 Isn't part of the upside for C4 is that is is stable and not really reactive until an electrical current is applied?

Note: I am not familiar with modern military explosives too extensively.
Posted by: Aetius451AD

C-4 might be. I'm wondering how salt water tight the blasting caps/remote detonators are.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (GnNvu)

209 >First Blood?

Rambo Baggins.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (44ww/)

210 The only way I believe Biden would order the pipeline be blown up is if China told him to. China is hoping to corner all of Russia's energy exports. See the pipelines being built.
==
This makes more sense to me that the US doing it. I mean if you where them, you'd do it and try to figure a way to pin it on a third party. THe odd thing is you have Biden and NUland both pretty much saying in advance they were going to do it. Which, is almost the clincher. Its what stupid people would do. They'd make a public threat and then act on it secretly.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (Xrfmm)

211 Most subs do not carry the SDV that SEALs use. Only a handful do.

The nub cuts 10 knots off your speed.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (UuD2k)

212 178 it is all unnamed sources. That being said, Biden is fucked up enough to do something like this
+++++++

Biden wears diapers and gets laughed at while he's giving the SOTU address. He's a nasty man that got old and senile. Call him evil Grandpa. However, nobody has officially come up with a term for what the executive branch has become. A cabal? I guess we should just refer to it as "The Biden Administration".

Posted by: DFCtomm at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (xge03)
----
Biden announced they would do it and we discussed that here at the time.
I call it the Biden Junta.

Posted by: Ciampino -- like green mambas at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (qfLjt)

213 ... Did we really have the motive? I mean, it could have potentially been a two-edged sword. OTOH, we certainly want Europe to stop using Russian energy. OTOH, doing that, at that time, could have potentially caused Europe to suffer a very tough winter and weakened their resolve. The German's were already waffling because of their "need" for Russian energy.

If it was the US, it was a pretty big gamble.
Posted by: Intrepid Democratic Underground AoS Liaison at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (AjVcg)
++++
I actually feel bad for this DU poster. He clearly still thinks that we're the good guys, and we wouldn't thrust Europe into privation and destroy their most powerful industrial economy in the pursuit of Machiavellian power games.

He is in for a rude awakening, one way or another. There are a lot of people on both "sides" of this country who don't yet grok that we're not the good guys.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (t0OGg)

214 98 >>>31 Hersch is a pathological liar and a psychopath who always believes the worst about the United States. No way this story has any merit whatsoever.

Well, I'm starting to agree with his general take on the Regime.

////////////

as we learned with Glenn Greenwald, just because an obnoxious lefty has a deepseated hatred...that doesn't mean we have to reject their alignment with us out of spite.

Glenn may think the GWOT was done for Exxon or whatever. Seymour Butts may just hate America...but now that America is an evil empire, it's time to at least be aware of the truth so we can know we're being lied to.

I mean, there's on one hand lies by the govt to protect an operation...like not telling us that the bombs drop at midnight on Saddam Hussein. It's another to fucking start a war (or you know stage a rheichstagg fire and imprison hundreds of people without trial).

Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (MLrvz)

215 OK, I was probably wrong - it was not the Poles.

I am sorry and it will never happen again.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (jZmoD)

216 Definition:
Occam's Corrupt Razor - The most corrupt explanation is the most likely.

Posted by: Haywood at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (e1/md)

217 I mean, when was the last time the US swooped in, made everything right, then went home
Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:36 PM (geLO

Probably WWI.
Posted by: Oldcat
____

Thought it was right at the time. *shrugs*

Posted by: Zombie Woodrow Wilson at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (fs1hN)

218 > If one wonders whether Joe Biden himself is directly involved in a given action or policy decision, the test is ...
Posted by: troyriser

the people running him are idiots too

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (geLO8)

219 188 >I'm beginning to wonder if we are the Baddies....
Posted by: Just Lily
-----
Lets see:
Venezuela
Afghanistan
Ukraine
Iraq
Syria
Libya
Egypt
Any number of Sub Saharan African countries
Arizona
Texas
Canada
Britain
Germany

its a long list

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (C7jzY)

220 >>> 55 I still believe the British took out the pipelines but that's me. I'm sure the US was involved but I don't think it was they who acted.
Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (lfSFb)

Even if this was Brit military action, at this point I see that as no different than say, MI6 spying on American citizens and the CIA spying on Brits. It's all driven by the same corrupt clusterfck.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (llON8)

221 This is insane.
Remember how those generals didn't follow Trump's orders because they were too aggressive?
But setting the stage for WW3 is fine.
Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.
Seems to be relevant.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (Y+l9t)
---
China signed off on the Nordstream 2 demolition.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (krQz2)

222 213 I actually feel bad for this DU poster. He clearly still thinks that we're the good guys, and we wouldn't thrust Europe into privation and destroy their most powerful industrial economy in the pursuit of Machiavellian power games.

He is in for a rude awakening, one way or another. There are a lot of people on both "sides" of this country who don't yet grok that we're not the good guys.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (t0OGg)

=========

The only good guys are the Ukrainian government, son.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (LvTSG)

223 US Navy Divers ARE Spec OPs.

Welcome to the party Ace.
Posted by: Auspex at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (j4U/Z)

Not until they are out of school and Join the Spec Ops Command. Until then, they are just normal Navy Personnel.

Spec Ops Command stuff must be reported to Congress, 'normal' US Navy stuff, does not.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (oHd/0)

224 Probably WWI.

Even that's not quite true - the settlement at the end of WWI led directly to WWII. But that fits neatly into "Woodrow Wilson: History's Greatest Monster".
Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (ZGrMX)

The US didn't ratify that, or deal with enforcing. I know Wilson was waving around his 14 points but my impression is nobody listened to the idiot and he went home and stroked out.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (eoQWY)

225 A-hobbit-clypse Now

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (44ww/)

226 or to put it another way, maybe Mr. Butts is lying.

Ok, so who blew it up?

The ghost of keeve?

Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (MLrvz)

227 So, has anyone demanded Biden take a cognitive test yet? Seems those came quite often duriing the Trump adminstration.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (Y+l9t)

228 The only good guys are the Ukrainian government, son.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (LvTSG)
++++
Right, right. I forgot. Please forgive me.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (t0OGg)

229 Truth hasn't been established. As such you still consider the credibility of the person giving the story.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth

I consider the plausibility of the story itself, first. Before even considering a person.

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (iKBwy)

230 It's also interesting Hersh didn't mention London. We know of the txts about 'it's done" etc etc.

Maybe London fed the info to Hersh.

Scum of the earthm
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (1ais2)
if the information was fed by the Brits to Hersh that would be understandable. I wouldn't want to be an island nation incurring the wrath of a nuclear nation right now.
But it is highly likely the US Navy was involved in an advisory or support role.

Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (lfSFb)

231 Say my name!

Posted by: Seymour Hirsch at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (w3DYt)

232 >Probably WWI.
Posted by: Oldcat

or WW2

But since then, our record is a little shaky
imo
we're great at moon landings, tho

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (geLO8)

233 "Posted by: Bud Norton

Hi Bud. Long time no see!

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (iayUP)

234 My source was the New York Times (now known as "Putin Stooges").

Posted by: Martin Tell at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (yUdfq)

235 If one wonders whether Joe Biden himself is directly involved in a given action or policy decision

Biden's only involved in choosing ice cream flavors and sniffing young girls. The junta does the rest.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (ZGrMX)

236 "Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 01:47 PM (uNylN"

What I'm hearing from UD types are some capabilities pauses. They haven't fully scoped it out yet. But they have questions. Also, some of these asset movements have not been verified. And some of them can be, pretty easily for those with the right clearance.

Again. There may be some truth. But it needs time to marinate.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (M5z+9)

237 Isn't part of the upside for C4 is that is is stable and not really reactive until an electrical current is applied?

Note: I am not familiar with modern military explosives too extensively.
Posted by: Aetius451AD

C-4 might be. I'm wondering how salt water tight the blasting caps/remote detonators are.
==
Don't over think it. They have off the shelf deployable limpet type mines that are sufficient to sink ships. Just put a couple of them on in the right spot of the pipe line - viola. Probably already set up with remote detonation trigger vs. timer.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (7zMqD)

238 Remember how those generals didn't follow Trump's orders because they were too aggressive?

///

stop trying to use the lefts' words to define their actions.

they're fucking crazy. they can invade the capitol to stop a justice from being voted on for SCOTUS and attack people leaving the white house (and spend a year mortaring and lasering cops) and the next day put 100 people in jail for insurrection.

Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (MLrvz)

239 Spec Ops Command stuff must be reported to Congress, 'normal' US Navy stuff, does not.
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:51 PM (oHd/0)

Yeah, because the Executive Branch has been real sticklers about following the laws that limit their power.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (UuD2k)

240 So, the military was willing to follow Joe's orders on blowing up a Russian pipeline but not when he ordered them to shoot down a Chinese balloon?

Which country owns us again?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (LvTSG)

Just goes to show how brilliant Putin's machinations are.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (uvymP)

241 Does our military even still use c-4 ? Though using C-4 could be intentional to throw off the investigators.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (bZMpx)

242 206 The Kraut government probably doesn't mind eeeevil oil not coming in (they were promoting video of a demolition company blowing up one of their nuclear power plants last week, feel the greenness!), but Kraut industry and the Kraut people sure do.
----
Those are gas pipelines not oil.

Posted by: Ciampino - like green mambas at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (qfLjt)

243 Biden and NUland both pretty much saying in advance they were going to do it.
___

What's the point of having all this power if my high school class doesn't know I could crush all of them at my whim?

Posted by: Tory Nuland at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (fs1hN)

244 If Putin ordered a hit on Victoria Nuland, and then blamed the American government for killing her, would the credulous media accept that stupidity? Of course not, despite it's actual inane equivalence to their ridiculous pipeline story, because it would obviously be an act of retribution (and a minor act at that comparatively) but the Junta would no doubt use her murder to whip Americans into a war frenzy against Russia.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (BPs5U)

245 Attacking the messenger is a fallacy. The truth is true no matter who says it. This is why criminals are allowed to testify in court against other criminals. What people are doing here regarding Hirsh is literally no different than what progs do when you link to a true article at Breitbart. "Breitbart? LOL"
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (iKBwy)

Wouldn't really call it "attacking the messenger" so much as reminding folks of the messenger's questionably credibility. Trust is easy to lose and VERY hard to re-earn.
See Buck's recent Morning Rant regarding climate scare-mongers and junk science "medical" folks.

Posted by: Doof at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (ChAEn)

246 >So, has anyone demanded Biden take a cognitive test yet? Seems those came quite often duriing the Trump adminstration.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice)

word on the street is, he has an annual physical coming up- I'm sure we'll be told he is in excellent health

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (geLO8)

247 DanMa'am and I were talking about this last night and her take was she believed it was us all along.

I told her I considered the list of listed countries that had the wherewithall to do it and had eliminated Germany and Europe in general because it wasn't in their interests.

"That's why I believe we did it" she said.

Posted by: DanMan at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (DB6tu)

248 Panama City is a fun, out of the way, place. Yes, they do have a dive school there. Everything about SOCOM vs Straightleg is real. Two different chains of command.

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (C7jzY)

249 Is the Flaming Skull (tm) because, shock of all shocks, there still is an actual investigative reporter left in the US, or because (unsurprisingly) our demented fake president has likely turned his pet proxy war into a hot war.

Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (Ed8Zd)

250 This bikini brunette has no trouble believing the premise, but she doesn't think that Hersh is exactly reliable and would really like to see some evidence beyond a highly-detailed "sources say" article:
https://is.gd/a3lMyW

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (t0OGg)

251
I look forward to Germany's one working fighter jet facing down the US military.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:48 PM (LvTSG)

Right. And I am surprised I don't see more discussion of what happens if (when) UKR falls. All Europe is exposed. "Soft white underbelly".

That's why Johnson's begging UK to send it all to UKR makes sense.

RUS has to be stopped in UKR. UKR is (was) by far the best and only competent mil in EUR.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (1ais2)

252 55 I still believe the British took out the pipelines but that's me. I'm sure the US was involved but I don't think it was they who acted.
Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 01:35 PM (lfSFb)

That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.

Posted by: DaisyB at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (AbL8c)

253 or WW2

But since then, our record is a little shaky
imo
we're great at moon landings, tho
Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:52 PM (geLO

We didn't go home after WW2... hell, we're still there.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (oHd/0)

254 Speaking of the Four Horsemen . . .

Chick-fil-A's newest sandwich ditches chicken for … cauliflower.

The aptly named "Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich" is being tested in three cities beginning next week, marking the chicken chain's first-ever plant-based sandwich.

https://bit.ly/3RKdiQJ

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (FVME7)

255 Biden announced they would do it and we discussed that here at the time.
I call it the Biden Junta.
Posted by: Ciampino -- like green mambas at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (qfLjt)

Jackass presents: Bad Grandpa

Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (M+Lyo)

256 I have pointed it out earlier, but in case you missed it, Germany was moving towards a separate peace with Russia, because they desperately needed the natural gas. The only way to force them into line was to destroy the tempting pipeline.

German industry cannot survive without cheap Russian gas. Both as a fuel and feedstock for their entire manufacturing chain. They cannot do this with American gas or African/middle East gas as the transport costs are too high. They are now in terminal decline. BASF and other major German firms are moving operations out of the country as we speak.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (lTGtQ)

Likely true about the industry, but the Greens in power in GER were been as gung-ho about the war as anyone at the time of the boom until the sanctions started blowing up in their face. I could see them signing off on it because otherwise they might have blown the cover if they had investigated on their own.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (eoQWY)

257 Those are gas pipelines not oil.

Greta doesn't differentiate the two. They both make Gaia sad. HOW DARE YOU!

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (ZGrMX)

258
It's interesting how everyone wants to see Biden, Garland, Wray, Vanilli Milley and all the rest swinging from lampposts.

Yet when Sy Hersh confirms that they actually fired the first shot in a potential WW3, suddenly he's not to be trusted?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (x0n13)

259 Fkn Biden came right out and said it. I admit though he lies all the time though so he might have been lying when he said "there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (iayUP)

260 Not hypocrisy, hierarchy.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (44ww/)

261 The Daily Daddario feels pretty confident that she's hotter than this thread's Mannix girl. She also totally believes the report because it feeds her previously held ideas:

https://tinyurl.com/yjjcxnra

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (LvTSG)

262 I can attest that the Spooks have been in control of Ukraine since at least 2014 and likely earlier. Bidens are Grift Magnets. Wherever they show up you know there's money to be had.

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (C7jzY)

263 >We didn't go home after WW2... hell, we're still there.

Posted by: Romeo13

That's right! Huh.

Posted by: DB at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (geLO8)

264 So, can efforts to start a war be considered a war crime? Because this was an act of war against Russia by the US. And Biden ordered it.

War criminal?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (Zz0t1)

265
Again, non-com professionals in the US military are put into impossible positions and told to get it fucking done, "analist" pansies phanticise, parse and publish. Then issue illegal orders.

Fuck Joe Biden, Lloyd Austin, Milley Vanilli and the rest of the cross dressing, drug abusing satanist fake leadership.

Smart military blog or not, know your allies. There are suffering patriots in uniform, support them.

Posted by: Auspex at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (j4U/Z)

266 BASF and other major German firms are moving operations out of the country as we speak.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 09, 2023 01:34 PM (lTGtQ)
++++
And BASF is gambling hard in a race against time to pull their industrial plant and rebuild it in Louisiana. They have maybe two years to pull it off.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (t0OGg)

267 Remember how Joe argued that Germans buying Russian oil put Russia at a disadvantage to Germany?

I do. Nobody has gone back and fact-checked that in light of how that totally happened the way Trump said it would.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (krQz2)

268
Chick Filler is a porn name . . .

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (x0n13)

269 They want their World War 3 and they'll stop at nothing to get it.

Posted by: No Shirt Shylock at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (PWI4f)

270 Yet when Sy Hersh confirms that they actually fired the first shot in a potential WW3, suddenly he's not to be trusted?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (x0n1

It's any thing but suddenly.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (bZMpx)

271 I am not going to believe anything until 50+ intelligence agents tell me what to think in a full page ad in the Washington Post.

Posted by: Bang-a-gong at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (SRiFu)

272 Aren't they MG-42s?

Everything else fit, now a myth exploded.
Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:49 PM (eoQWY)

No, the paratrooper FG-42 machine gun. Mk II probably- I am not a huge fan of the extremely swept grip on the first gen. 8mm mauser. Select fire. Weird side loading magazine. Shoulder fire. Bipod. Muzzle device.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (zZu0s)

273 "Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich"

Tastes the same going down as coming up.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (iayUP)

274 The Daily Daddario feels pretty confident that she's hotter than this thread's Mannix girl. She also totally believes the report because it feeds her previously held ideas:

https://tinyurl.com/yjjcxnra
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (LvTSG)
++++
That's a good picture of her.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:56 PM (t0OGg)

275 Chick-fil-A's newest sandwich ditches chicken for … cauliflower.

The aptly named "Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich" is being tested in three cities beginning next week, marking the chicken chain's first-ever plant-based sandwich.

https://bit.ly/3RKdiQJ
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (FVME7)

Suck.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (Zz0t1)

276 258
It's interesting how everyone wants to see Biden, Garland, Wray, Vanilli Milley and all the rest swinging from lampposts.

Yet when Sy Hersh confirms that they actually fired the first shot in a potential WW3, suddenly he's not to be trusted?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (x0n13)

=========

Can we get more than an anonymous report that shows that he's trustworthy now? What if the general thrust of the article is correct but it's full of errors of detail?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (LvTSG)

277 This is insane.
Remember how those generals didn't follow Trump's orders because they were too aggressive?
But setting the stage for WW3 is fine.
Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.
Seems to be relevant.

Posted by: sharon

This. A thousand times this.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (GnNvu)

278 Because no cluster is completely fucked until you get a Seymour Hersh expose.

Posted by: DaveA at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (FhXTo)

279 Biden will be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize,

Posted by: mr tmz at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (rJ48h)

280 Chick-fil-A's newest sandwich ditches chicken for … cauliflower.

The aptly named "Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich" is being tested in three cities beginning next week, marking the chicken chain's first-ever plant-based sandwich.

https://bit.ly/3RKdiQJ
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (FVME7)

Homely. So, there's a chance.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (Zz0t1)

281 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:39 PM

You are correct; but I was trying to make a joke - cut off dicks = trans- nationalism.

I'll keep my day job.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (a3Q+t)

282 >>> 125 Not very many people are noting that this was also an attack on an ostensible ally, Germany.
Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (iKBwy)

It's an attack on the German People. The cultists running the joint would jump for glee at eeeeevil fossil fuels not coming in, AND not having to take the blame for it. Let the peasants freeze. It's Putin's fault.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (9UlRk)

Warai-otoko Johnson is right!

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (llON8)

283 RUS has to be stopped in UKR. UKR is (was) by far the best and only competent mil in EUR.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (1ais2)

Why would Russia invade the EU, UNLESS they see them as an existential threat? oh... wait... that would be the US and the call for Regime Change.

But Russia does not have the population to do anything to the EU. Just like Germany in WW2 was outmanned by all its opponents...

It was different when the Warsaw Pack existed, as that gave the USSR a LOT more manpower... now though?

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (oHd/0)

284 So Russia is going to dump 500,000 soldiers into Ukraine around May.
And our plan is that the Ukraine troops we're training on our weapons we're giving them will meet and hold against that threat.

A strategy we successfully deployed in both Iraq and Afghanistan as the local troops easily and early took over the defense of their democracy.

Oh wait. That never happened. But we spent a trillion dollars and tens of thousands of lives over 20 years so we must have learned how to do it right, right?

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (H4uE3)

285 Biden is very good at shutting down energy pipelines.

Posted by: Bang-a-gong at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (SRiFu)

286 You are correct; but I was trying to make a joke - cut off dicks = trans- nationalism.

I'll keep my day job.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (a3Q+t)
++++
Ooooooooh

No, please don't. I need to catch the obvious jokes when they happen. Oy, I missed that one.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (t0OGg)

287 RUS has to be stopped in UKR. UKR is (was) by far the best and only competent mil in EUR.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (1ais2)

RUS could have been stopped by some pen strokes at a bargaining table before the war started and Biden given a smashing victory. They didn't really want it to come to this but they were ready if it did.

RUS now cares nothing for EUR even for trading. They are turning to the rest of the world. They just don't want them attacking them, and with their gutted militaries that won't happen for long.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (eoQWY)

288 The regime will add this to the "you're a truth denier" class of stuff, so you can be unpersoned, or fired, or have your accounts frozen, our your kids taken from you, or picked up at zero dark thirty and hustled off to an unknown location, if you say Biden blew up the pipeline.

I gotta reread "The Orphan Master's Son," to get in the new mood.

Posted by: Mr Gaga at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (KiBMU)

289 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?

I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?

Posted by: Oddbob at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (nfrXX)

290 So many of these decisions can be attributed to the crazy notion that the global warming is going to kill the planet. Could it be that the blosing up of the pipeline is just another way to eliminate gas and oil as fuels. This way you donlt need permission and people freezinig to death cannot be blamed on government.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (Y+l9t)

291 30 Does Joe actually issue orders?
Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (eGTCV)

Yes: Chocholate. Vanilla. Tutti-Frutti. Three scoops.

Posted by: Not Enough Lampposts at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (UGrpJ)

292 Suck.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (Zz0t1)
---
Embrace.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (krQz2)

293 FG-42

https://tinyurl.com/3humb2db

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (zZu0s)

294 If you don't believe the worst about the feral government, you haven't been paying attention for the last 25 years.

Posted by: Ian

We're bad, but we aren't The Baddies quite yet. Though we are diligently working up to that.

Hersh thinks we are the ultimate evil, worse than the Nazis, Stalinists and Maoists put together. We aren't.

Posted by: Sharkman at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (cUWlp)

295 That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.

And as everyone knows, governments absolutely hate "crisis". Oh, wait.

Posted by: No Shirt Shylock at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (PWI4f)

296 Chick-fil-A's newest sandwich ditches chicken for … cauliflower.

The aptly named "Chick-fil-A Cauliflower Sandwich" is being tested in three cities beginning next week, marking the chicken chain's first-ever plant-based sandwich.

https://bit.ly/3RKdiQJ
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (FVME7)

Likely the only thing on the menu that tastes like crap, too.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (eoQWY)

297 >>RUS has to be stopped in UKR. UKR is (was) by far the best and only competent mil in EUR.

*Sad Trombone*

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (s4qIM)

298 "This was not just an act of war against Russia, it was an attack on Europe, most particularly the EU, most particularly Germany, which we must all understand to be vassal states of an empire that is fatally wounded."

Absolutely.

Posted by: DaisyB at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (AbL8c)

299 Explosive devices leave signatures. The explosives themselves do also, including residues. That's why some ops use the other guys stuff.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (M5z+9)

300 This Hersh is apparently a commie or a sympathizer. It's important to remember that, despite all our name calling, the people running shit right now are NOT communists. Not in any meaningful sense. They're cultists. They're power mad. They're evil. But they ain't communist. So there's no reason to assume he'd be on their side just because he isn't on our side.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (9UlRk)

301 "I'm beginning to think this country is North Korea," he says.

---------

[X] Run by a Totalitarian Cult Oligarchy
[X] Owned By & Taking Orders From China

All that's missing is political prisoners, the lights going out, and starvation. Oh, wait ... they're admittedly working on it.

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (rp3uN)

302 Are people clamoring for a cauliflower sandwich? Why, when there are so many other good things to eat? What the hell is wrong with people?

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (iayUP)

303 So, has anyone demanded Biden take a cognitive test yet?

-
Matt Walsh On Biden’s Bizarre SOTU Behavior: “Classic Symptom of Alzheimer’s”

https://bit.ly/3RMlu2Q

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (FVME7)

304 Biden is very good at shutting down energy pipelines.
Posted by: Bang-a-gong at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (SRiFu)

His excuse will be "I did it for THE PLANET! OIL IS BAD!"

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (Zz0t1)

305 Don't be so desperate to find ammunition against this administration that you hang your hopes on Seymour Hersh.

And it's "casus belli", not "causus belli".

Posted by: aelfheld at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (Zy9Yy)

306 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (t0OGg)

Looks like a summer camp fling. Cute but you think she's smoking hot because it's slim pickings over on the girls side of the lake.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (x0n13)

307 It's interesting how everyone wants to see Biden, Garland, Wray, Vanilli Milley and all the rest swinging from lampposts.

Yet when Sy Hersh confirms that they actually fired the first shot in a potential WW3, suddenly he's not to be trusted?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

Problem is, he hasn't confirmed anything. He has posited a thesis to fit an already known outcome.

Does he have video? Audio? Hard evidence? I'd hate to start WWIII over unsubstantiated claims.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (GnNvu)

308 Popeyes has a better chicken sammich than CF.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (s4qIM)

309 A strategy we successfully deployed in both Iraq and Afghanistan as the local troops easily and early took over the defense of their democracy.

I saw a blurb a few days ago that Putin and the Taliban had reached a deal for him to pick up all the stuff Biden abandoned there and and use it against KEEEV. That's gonna be amazing.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (ZGrMX)

310 So, the military was willing to follow Joe's orders on blowing up a Russian pipeline but not when he ordered them to shoot down a Chinese balloon?

Which country owns us again?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM

I don't think I want to know "who run Barter Town".

Posted by: Grimmy at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (AjVcg)

311 purty shore this is gonna take some industrial grade "nuttin gonna happen"
-
I guess we'll know for sure when dozens of Biden/Deep State officials start dying of sudden cancer.

Posted by: Methos at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (kOpft)

312 Guess we're a "rouge nation" now. I seem to recall what happens to "rouge nations" and it's not pleasant. Yet, somehow we certainly deserve whatever's coming. If anything.

"We" being the husk of what was the US. Not "we" as us here on the blog.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (Q4IgG)

313 Wouldn't really call it "attacking the messenger" so much as reminding folks of the messenger's questionably credibility. Trust is easy to lose and VERY hard to re-earn.
See Buck's recent Morning Rant regarding climate scare-mongers and junk science "medical" folks.

Posted by: Doof

Quite true, and so

Consider the credibility of the men and women - and women who think they are men, and men who claim to be women - who are all telling you that's bullshit, this is a fight for democracy and freedom, and our cause is righteous.

Our people tend to swallow whatever lines they are fed about foreigners because it falls right in line with American exceptionalism (as our nation crumbles into ruin and degeneracy) and the assumption that, no matter how things are going at home, on the world stage, America is righteous.

If we're considering the sources and their trustworthiness... Look at the people who are telling you "THIS IS RIGHT AND TRUE".

The same people telling you Biden won.

The same people telling you kids can chop their genitals off and be okay.

Dare we trust those sources?

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (ZZUGK)

314 But Russia does not have the population to do anything to the EU. Just like Germany in WW2 was outmanned by all its opponents...

It was different when the Warsaw Pack existed, as that gave the USSR a LOT more manpower... now though?
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (oHd/0)

EUR can't field an army. Even if they could (they can't) they don't have time.

I doubt we have the logistics or supply chain defense to land an army over RUS counters.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (1ais2)

315 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?

I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?
Posted by: Oddbob at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (nfrXX)

Long wavelength stuff goes deep, there's a transmitter in Michigan that can hit any sub at any depth.

Probably didn't use that though.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (eoQWY)

316
Likely the only thing on the menu that tastes like crap, too.
Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (eoQWY)

No. It will taste like cauliflower. Just like everything ELSE that's made from cauliflower.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (Zz0t1)

317 I told her I considered the list of listed countries that had the wherewithall to do it and had eliminated Germany and Europe in general because it wasn't in their interests.

"That's why I believe we did it" she said.
==
Logically it was either us or Chi Na. But Biden announcing he was going to do it and the Nuland announcing again is odd. One way or another Nordstream is gone . . . (Of course they are both stupid/malignant and think they can do whatever they want but that's epic stupidity). I mean don't you think Germany is going to be more than a little put out?

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (CT/3H)

318 305 Don't be so desperate to find ammunition against this administration that you hang your hopes on Seymour Hersh.

And it's "casus belli", not "causus belli".
Posted by: aelfheld at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (Zy9Yy)

If Cassius Clay married Attorney Melvin Belli . . .

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (x0n13)

319
Does Joe actually issue orders?
Posted by: That Northern skulker

He orders one of the thirty-three flavors every day.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (63Dwl)

320 The only truth is that we'll never actually know the truth.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (KbCG3)

321 So if you are in NATO, say like Germany. And you find out that your allies attacked your fuel supply, what rights do you have under NATO treaty as against "allies". I can't imagine they'd be putting money into NATO going forward without extracting some kind of compensation restitution.
Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 01:45 PM (v/57k)

The Germans signed off ahead of time. Too bad about destroying the economy folks.

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (xhaym)

322 We have to stop Russia. Otherwise, the Satanists lose.

Won't someone think of the Satanists?

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (iKBwy)

323 "I'm beginning to think this country is North Korea," he says.

---------

[X] Run by a Totalitarian Cult Oligarchy
[X] Owned By & Taking Orders From China

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 01:59 PM (rp3uN)
---
But--as far as I know--we aren't shipping our people into Russia to sell their labor and making them think they are still within America.

Again, as far as I know.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (krQz2)

324 Whatever "the truth" really is, it's probably far more stupid than this.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (9UlRk)

325 At this point the burden of proof is on our warmongers at State DoD and the IC to demonstrate that they didn't blow up the pipeline. The US and its vassal state Ukraine had the most to gain, and the US had the capability. The Russians blowing up their own cash cow was always laughable. The Europeans cutting off their supply of oil is also laughable. The American government has been lying about everything from Patriot Front to Russian collusion to gain of function research on viruses so there is a presumption they are lying here. No plausible alternative actor has even been proposed.

Posted by: Ted Torgerson DeSantis/Lake 2024 at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (vN+oL)

326
If Cassius Clay married Attorney Melvin Belli . . .
Posted by: J.J. Sefton

The offspring would be an unfriendly angel.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (63Dwl)

327 OT: This is why FBI rank and file are dying to be in VA - law and proper behavior still exist here - aspiring DC rapper who waved a gun in the Tyson's Mall with his gang and took some pot shots (missing everyone) had to plead to 4 felonies today and is looking at up to 33 years in June sentencing...I expect he'll probably get 8-10, which is world's higher than the misdemeanors his attorney wanted...

https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/ 2023/02/dc-man-faces-33-years-in-prison- after-plea-in-tysons-mall- shooting-that-sparked-panic/

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (exHjb)

328 The only truth is that we'll never actually know the truth.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (KbCG3)
---
Some of us are planning to go somewhere where all truth will be revealed.

So, no. I do not recognize that as "the truth".

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (krQz2)

329 This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (u73oe)

They are bureaucrats. Reporting requirements are more real than artillery ammunition or the road network in the Donbass.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (eoQWY)

330 I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?
Posted by: Oddbob at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (nfrXX)

Doubt it's possible. There is VLF/ULF (very low freq/ultra) capability, but that requires a very long antenna.

The signal was sent by sonar buoy in Hersh's piece.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (UuD2k)

331 I'd hate to start WWIII over unsubstantiated claims.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (GnNvu)

Don't worry about it, WW3 is already started.

Issue is, once it really gets going, Europe's probably going to want to switch sides, and I don't think the Ruskies will be in the mood to accept their offer.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (ZZUGK)

332 I trust Sy Hersh even less than I trust Joe Biden.

Posted by: Johann Amadeus Metesky at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (VHk4v)

333 >>>downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support

There was no intelligence mission or operation at all, if the account is to be believed. Destruction was the mission.

Posted by: Comrade flounder, Disinformation Demon at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (PyOKD)

334 "No. It will taste like cauliflower. Just like everything ELSE that's made from cauliflower.
Posted by: Sponge"

So, barf flavor.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (iayUP)

335 256 I have pointed it out earlier, but in case you missed it, Germany was moving towards a separate peace with Russia, because they desperately needed the natural gas.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

Not a separate peace, a collaboration to undo Anglo dominance in Europe. A "pact" if you will.
They wanted Germany up, US out, and that meant Russia in. They were OK with that. In fact they were divvying up Europe all over again.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (jZmoD)

336
Whatever "the truth" really is, it's probably far more stupid than this.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

The pipe broke because they used Chinese parts.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (63Dwl)

337 >Chick-fil-A's newest sandwich ditches chicken for … cauliflower.

Man, recently I used riced cauliflower in a recipe once. My gas cleared the room and the only other beings here are my two bulldogs.

Posted by: Fool Otto at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (DB16e)

338 252 That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.
Posted by: DaisyB at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (AbL8c)

Managed decline is part of the NWO WEF agenda. The event happened right after the Brits had secured new petroleum shipments from the emirates. Even if the British petroleum amount is down thats okay as its really only meant to keep afloat the people who can afford it.

Posted by: Spiff The Spaceman at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (lfSFb)

339 Does our military even still use c-4 ? Though using C-4 could be intentional to throw off the investigators.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:53 PM (bZMpx)

Because I'm old, I've had some training in C4 in the Army while attending Recondo School. We blew up mock bridges. That stuff is a dream to work with. Follow a few safety fundamentals and you're golden.

Posted by: troyriser at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (7Cx1V)

340 Problem is, he hasn't confirmed anything. He has posited a thesis to fit an already known outcome.

Does he have video? Audio? Hard evidence? I'd hate to start WWIII over unsubstantiated claims.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (GnNvu)

Amen - a thesis we've all ALREADY had for months as we debated Britain vs the US for the culprit...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (exHjb)

341
So, barf flavor.
Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (iayUP)

Mostly, yes. But with SEASONING!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (Zz0t1)

342 Are you suggesting that Hobbits are responsible?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 09, 2023 01:38 PM (guGkK)

if a giant spider wreathed in Darkness stung it, go with Melkor.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (eoQWY)

343 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (GnNvu)

Sea mines can stay deadly for decades.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (tkR6S)

344 >>Not a separate peace

Finny Dies!

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (s4qIM)

345 307
Does he have video? Audio? Hard evidence? I'd hate to start WWIII over unsubstantiated claims.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (GnNvu)

True. But I think a lot of folks are just totally dismissive of the assertions, and the fairly alarming circumstantial evidence that Hersh alludes to. They see it's Hersh and just dismiss any further discussion out of hand because of who he is, not of what he is claiming.

It demands further investigation given what's going on, the players and what is at stake.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (x0n13)

346 I don't think Trump is generally considered part of the "establishment", and he pretty much killed N2, whereas the clownshow replacing him revived it.

When did the bilaterals with the Russians in Geneva end? Before or after December planning meetings?

This entire episode is not some inevitable thing, nor do its roots extend back just a year or so. Nor did it involve any Russian intention or plan to do more than ensure Ukrainian military non-alignment (an impossible goal over the longer term). But this involves actually following and understanding the situation as it developed over a quite a few years.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (OTzUX)

347 RUS now cares nothing for EUR even for trading. They are turning to the rest of the world. They just don't want them attacking them, and with their gutted militaries that won't happen for long.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (eoQWY)

100% agree. But after RUS takes UKR all of EUR is open. I'm not even saying RUS will do anything. But RUS could do anything they wanted. Defenseless.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (1ais2)

348 ... This was not just an act of war against Russia, it was an attack on Europe, most particularly the EU, most particularly Germany, which we must all understand to be vassal states of an empire that is fatally wounded. ...
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (ZZUGK)
++++
Yup. This has been my position for some time. It's bad for Russia, but it's utterly catastrophic for Central Europe. Germany is the economic engine of the intra-European empire, and it's finished now. Their entire industrial economy is centered on natural gas. This will destroy them because now when the war is over (one way or another), those taps cannot be turned back on. Major German industrial concerns are working manfully to relocate before they collapse. BASF is going to be an American company when this is finished. The car companies probably will be, too, as will various others. European aerospace is a major target of US policy, too, and we will pull Britain out of Airbus with the upcoming trade agreement. Europe is going to collapse, and will be an utterly dependent vassal state orbiting the US.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (t0OGg)

349 289 C-4 underwater for three months? Remotely detonated?

I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?
------------------
The remote thingy went away and they made it direct wire detonation according to Hersh. C-4 is remarkably stable. I've picked up unexploaded line charges and used the C-4 to cook my coffee years after the line charge was shot. If old C-4 becomes brick like just soak in gas for a day and its plasticity returns.

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (C7jzY)

350 Does Joe actually issue orders?

Posted by: That Northern skulker at February 09, 2023 01:33 PM (eGTCV)
---
Yes, and Dr. Jill pats him on the head and tells funny stories to the White House staff about it.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (krQz2)

351 The DU internal fight over this is amusing...they want to support investigative journalists, but not if they embarrass Democrats. They want to support Biden, but (the old Lefties) still have distrust of government and think the US starts wars all across the world...which they want to support for Ukraine, but only this time.

There are more and more hard lefties like Jimmy Dore bailing on the Dem party, which is good in the short-term, but terrifying because they're true socialists.

Posted by: Intrepid Democratic Underground AoS Liaison at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (AjVcg)

352 We're bad, but we aren't The Baddies quite yet.

--

So long as you disregard the bioweapons labs in Ukraine and the patented genetic sequence in the COVID-19 virus that we funded.

Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (frXg8)

353 US probably promised Huge investments in Ukraine to those who participate . Basically sold Uke to whoever helped keep Russia preoccupied. Old story , keeps repeating.

Posted by: runner at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (6F7eb)

354 Russia can use it as a reason to attack us whether it's true or not. I don't want to have World War III even if we can blame it on Biden.

Posted by: zmdavid at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (xqRaG)

355
The offspring would be an unfriendly angel.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (63Dwl)

You asked for it........

https://youtu.be/1UUYjd2rjsE

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (Zz0t1)

356 That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.

And as everyone knows, governments absolutely hate "crisis". Oh, wait.
Posted by: No Shirt Shylock

Governments HATE events that could get them physically overthrown. Just ask Marie Antoinette.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (GnNvu)

357 332 I trust Sy Hersh even less than I trust Joe Biden.
Posted by: Johann Amadeus Metesky at February 09, 2023 02:02 PM (VHk4v)

And for that, Biden and the Left are most appreciative.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (x0n13)

358 Oh, and the political prisoners.

Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (frXg8)

359 I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?
Posted by: Oddbob at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (nfrXX)

ELF can get through about 200 meters of sea water... this explosion was in about 100 meters if memory serves.

Do able... but you would need a local transmitter to do it.

ELF or VLF could do it from the other side of the world.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (oHd/0)

360 >>> 147
==
Exactly. The anonymous source is just the cherry on top for not buying into Hersh's story.

Could it be true? Sure. Russia blowing up its own pipeline was always stupid as hell. They could just "turn off the spigot" if they wanted to stop the oil flow. It could easily be other things as well.

I'm going to need a far better source than Seymour "I Fucking hate America" Hersh plus BONUS Anonymous source before I buy into it.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 09, 2023 01:44 PM (KLPy

I said yesterday (?) I didn't recognize the name Hersh, but the 'sources say' reminded me of Bob Woodward's amazing deathbed confessions.

...on the other hand, I have also said long before this that it's plausible our feralgov retards would bomb Nordstream, for several reasons.

So I think I'm agreeing in the approved Horde fashion here.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (llON8)

361 351 There are more and more hard lefties like Jimmy Dore bailing on the Dem party, which is good in the short-term, but terrifying because they're true socialists.
Posted by: Intrepid Democratic Underground AoS Liaison at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (AjVcg)

========

"Meh."
-Philly

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (LvTSG)

362 https://tinyurl.com/yjjcxnra
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 01:55 PM (LvTSG)
=================
dayam...

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (b5LfX)

363 Problem is, he hasn't confirmed anything. He has posited a thesis to fit an already known outcome.

Does he have video? Audio? Hard evidence? I'd hate to start WWIII over unsubstantiated claims.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:00 PM (GnNvu)

Seems like that boat may have sailed.

Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (Ed8Zd)

364 If Biden did this, he should be removed from office for reckless endangerment. But the report sounds a little gossipy.

Posted by: Caliban at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (iC8vi)

365 Probably already posted, but.... nothing will happen.

Posted by: InZona at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (2aWgS)

366
It's also interesting Hersh didn't mention London. We know of the txts about 'it's done" etc etc.

Maybe London fed the info to Hersh.

Scum of the earthm
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (1ais2)

Perfidious Albion...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (CCSxw)

367 "They see it's Hersh and just dismiss any further discussion out of hand because of who he is, not of what he is claiming."

True, but understandable given his history. And as these comments sections demonstrate non-stop, ad hominem fallacies and inability or unwillingness to look at the substance of matters is SOP for almost everyone.

So while credibility of "source" is always a factor in evaluating something, it's not the only one.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (OTzUX)

368 I have had long talks with German who could give you extreme detail about why the US wanted to end Nordstream (years ago) because the US was evil and Russia would never ever ever invade any neighbor.

I understood that they had been fed detailed and incessant russian propaganda, and it was coherent, but wrong.

This story about the pipeline sounds like that. I am not 100% convinced but it has a lot of detail. Still though, it might be an op to blame the US and it might be all wrong.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (jZmoD)

369 100% agree. But after RUS takes UKR all of EUR is open. I'm not even saying RUS will do anything. But RUS could do anything they wanted. Defenseless.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (1ais2)

I can't believe that Europe's safety up until now has rested entirely upon a big flat field full of au pairs and drunks being in the way.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (9UlRk)

370 The Germans signed off ahead of time. Too bad about destroying the economy folks.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:01 PM (xhaym)
++++
I seriously doubt that, but it is one of the areas where I'd love to see detail if it comes out in the future. There is zero reason for Germany to go along with this, and plenty of reason for them to blow the whistle and scuttle the plan before it got off the ground. I would bet that Germany was kept in the dark.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (t0OGg)

371 So long as you disregard the bioweapons labs in Ukraine and the patented genetic sequence in the COVID-19 virus that we funded.
Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (frXg

And blowing up pipelines...

Shit... we ARE a Bond Villain! And I don't even own a CAT!!

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (oHd/0)

372 "Suddenly, Seymour is standing beside you"

Thanks Seymour!

Posted by: The Chap in the Deerstalker Cap at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (N/KJF)

373 If you believe the myths, who dies first? Biden or Putin?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (Zz0t1)

374 C4 soaked in gasoline sounds like fun.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (iayUP)

375 351 The DU internal fight over this is amusing...they want to support investigative journalists, but not if they embarrass Democrats. They want to support Biden, but (the old Lefties) still have distrust of government and think the US starts wars all across the world...which they want to support for Ukraine, but only this time.

There are more and more hard lefties like Jimmy Dore bailing on the Dem party, which is good in the short-term, but terrifying because they're true socialists.
Posted by: Intrepid Democratic Underground AoS Liaison at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (AjVcg)

CPUSA last I heard was still Russian-aligned and out of favor with "normal" progressives. It's a sort of Bolshevik/Menshevik split. Favors us I tihnk.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (eYoxG)

376 "Suddenly, Seymour is standing beside you"

Thanks Seymour!
Posted by: The Chap in the Deerstalker Cap at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (N/KJF)

"FEED ME SEYMOUR!!!!!"

- - Plant from Little Shop of Horrors

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (Zz0t1)

377 375 CPUSA last I heard was still Russian-aligned and out of favor with "normal" progressives. It's a sort of Bolshevik/Menshevik split. Favors us I tihnk.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (eYoxG)

=========

"Meh..."
-Maricopa County

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:07 PM (LvTSG)

378 ELF or VLF could do it from the other side of the world.
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (oHd/0)

One ping only...

Posted by: Captain Marko Ramius at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (CCSxw)

379 We're bad, but we aren't The Baddies quite yet.

Hey we are on the side of the angels*. Now hand me that toddler so I can cut his genitals off.

*The lightbringing one specifically

Posted by: Your elites at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (lc5cP)

380 The US has/had a communication center for out submarines in the UP of Michigan using ultra-low frequency comms. Basically, the signals can travel everywhere.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (ufFY8)

381 We have to stop Russia. Otherwise, the Satanists lose.

Won't someone think of the Satanists?
-
This.

It's hard to see how the Europeans would be worse off being ruled by Moscow than by Brussels, in the unlikely case Putin's ambition could be stretched that far.

Posted by: Methos at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (kOpft)

382 If Biden did this, he should be removed from office for reckless endangerment. But the report sounds a little gossipy.
Posted by: Caliban at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (iC8vi)
---
Few, if any, believe Biden did this.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (krQz2)

383 One thing is for sure, much like Covid, the seeming lack of international curiosity about the actual happenings is something to behold.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (KbCG3)

384 I will let someone with the technical knowledge educate me. How hard is it to propagate a radio signal to whatever depth the pipeline was at?
Posted by: Oddbob at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (nfrXX)

The Germans lost a ship off of Argentina in the 60's from a WWI mine. There is a lot of concern about dragging nets too deep in the English Channel too. As for propagation of radio, I think it is kind of hard, which is why per the article they were using low amplitude sonic.

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (xhaym)

385 seriously doubt that, but it is one of the areas where I'd love to see detail if it comes out in the future. There is zero reason for Germany to go along with this, and plenty of reason for them to blow the whistle and scuttle the plan before it got off the ground. I would bet that Germany was kept in the dark.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (t0OGg)

The Greens are CIA. I mean actually CIA. 100% run and controlled.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (1ais2)

386 ELF or VLF could do it from the other side of the world.
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 02:05 PM (oHd/0)

Yeah, but you need a 2000 ft antenna to get the signal. Subs tow a wire behind them to receive the signal. You have to be careful how you drive or you'll cut it.

Then you have to load all 2000 ft of the new antenna onto a spool by hand. Don't ask me how I know.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (UuD2k)

387 It's also interesting Hersh didn't mention London. We know of the txts about 'it's done" etc etc.

--

That's right, I forgot about that.

“To be honest, I don’t care who got this information and how. I’m interested in London’s answer to the following question: Did Prime Minister Liz Truss of Britain send a message to US Secretary of State Antony Blinken immediately after the Nord Stream gas pipeline was blown up with the words ‘It’s done’?” asked Maria Zakharova on Telegram as per Sputnik."

https://tinyurl.com/26tqyb9g

Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (frXg8)

388 369 100% agree. But after RUS takes UKR all of EUR is open. I'm not even saying RUS will do anything. But RUS could do anything they wanted. Defenseless.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM (1ais2)

I can't believe that Europe's safety up until now has rested entirely upon a big flat field full of au pairs and drunks being in the way.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (9UlRk)

Well at least from the eastern direction that's traditionally been the case. Mongols and Muslims.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (eYoxG)

389 No one is going to investigate, no one is going to care. MSM defense will be to first, stonewall the story, report nothing on it at all. If they are dragged kicking and screaming to say something about it, they'll say "oh well everyone always knew this, of course we did and a good thing too."

This has been obvious for months, at the very least from the point that Sweden did an in depth investigation based on its own Balstic monitorinig data, and then said "well we know how it happened but that information is too sensitive so we're not telling anyone what we found out." The US of course knew exactly what they had found out.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (trdmm)

390 Time to rebuy defense contractor stock.

Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (Ed8Zd)

391 RUS has to be stopped in UKR. UKR is (was) by far the best and only competent mil in EUR.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (1ais2)
=======================
what a load of bullshit.

The US Army is the best and only competent force in Europe. It was so 2016-2020, when Trump was jumping up and down pushing the Eurotrash to build a more capable defensive force. Ukraine was an incompetent force then, and is only competent now thanks to $120 billion of weapons transfers.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (b5LfX)

392 Shit, meant LF can get through 200 meters of sea water....

Not enough day drinkin I guess.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (oHd/0)

393 Johann Amadeus Metesky must have rode in with Bud Norton.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (iayUP)

394 Wonder how Putin will retaliate. If he does anything at all. Might unload all the dirt he's got on rezident retard out of spite.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (Q4IgG)

The Germans had already shut off the flow of gas for sanctions, and Putin had already told them that there would be no new contracts after this one, as gas would in future go to other customers - China, Turkey, and plans for a pipeline toward India and Iran.

So the goal of crippling Europe had already been met, but like idiots these people had to prove their toughness and blow the line. Unaligned countries in the UN took note of this and other blunders at once, and are not sympathetic to the West in their demands because of the recklessness.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (eoQWY)

395 Betting on incompetence is usually a good bet.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 01:40 PM (zZu0s)

I believe that two separate European countries involved in the investigation have already reported that it was an explosive device and that it doesn't appear that Russia was involved.

We can sit around and argue that it totally wasn't us and that this reporter is an ass so anything he says is untrue but the days of suggesting it was Russian incompetence are past.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (uvymP)

396 Whatever "the truth" really is, it's probably far more stupid than this.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

The pipe broke because they used Chinese parts.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 09, 2023 02:03 PM (63Dwl)

----------

"Whose idea was it to use Chinese drywall in a underwater pipeline?!?!?"

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (KLzGl)

397 I guess the sourced don't want to be whacked?

Posted by: runner at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (6F7eb)

398 I was told only Trump could possibly get us into a war.

Posted by: Seems Legit at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (DcKNO)

399 385 seriously doubt that, but it is one of the areas where I'd love to see detail if it comes out in the future. There is zero reason for Germany to go along with this, and plenty of reason for them to blow the whistle and scuttle the plan before it got off the ground. I would bet that Germany was kept in the dark.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (t0OGg)

The Greens are CIA. I mean actually CIA. 100% run and controlled.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (1ais2)

Don't the Russians run a bunch of western Green orgs?

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (eYoxG)

400 Time to rebuy defense contractor stock.
Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (Ed8Zd)
============
this

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (b5LfX)

401 Few, if any, believe Biden did this.
Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (krQz2)

The man can't even dress himself.

Of course he did it.../s

Posted by: Captain Marko Ramius at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (CCSxw)

402 199. willing to impoverish and freeze their own citizens and deindustrialize their country rather than call out Gramps and his fascist regime for their act of terrorism against Germany.
Posted by: Wade Hampton

They were well on their way to doing that before this event. This just gives the ruling party Germans a way out of accountability now.

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (NW9xb)

403 This isn't some gossip about "dr. "
jill, this is pretty serious stuff.

Posted by: runner at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (6F7eb)

404 This has been obvious for months, at the very least from the point that Sweden did an in depth investigation based on its own Balstic monitorinig data, and then said "well we know how it happened but that information is too sensitive so we're not telling anyone what we found out." The US of course knew exactly what they had found out.
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (trdmm)

So Sweden didn't want to start WWIII. Interesting factoid.

Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (Ed8Zd)

405 /off submarine sock

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (CCSxw)

406 The Kagan cult needs removed via concrete and lead.

Posted by: Crom Laughs at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (Gcdtg)

407 Huh. The chinese want their balloon back? I'd say fuck you, but I am sure we are rushing to accommodate.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (zZu0s)

408 It demands further investigation given what's going on, the players and what is at stake.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 09, 2023 02:04 PM

We're on it! Let's see...Biden said he didn't do it. Welp, guess Hersch was lying! We need to throw him in jail for 24 months or so awaiting trial for sedition. Move along, nothing to see here!

Posted by: MSM at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (AjVcg)

409 That's right, I forgot about that.

“To be honest, I don’t care who got this information and how. I’m interested in London’s answer to the following question: Did Prime Minister Liz Truss of Britain send a message to US Secretary of State Antony Blinken immediately after the Nord Stream gas pipeline was blown up with the words ‘It’s done’?” asked Maria Zakharova on Telegram as per Sputnik."

https://tinyurl.com/26tqyb9g
Posted by: Trainwreck: Billions of people stuck with a broken immune response at February 09, 2023 02:08 PM (frXg8

Absolute scum of the earth.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (1ais2)

410 We have to stop Russia. Otherwise, the Satanists lose.

Won't someone think of the Satanists?

Under Trump the chief Satanic Temple in New York burned down - it was generally believed to be arson.

And the left was OUTRAGED that the federal government wasn't going after whoever burned it down.

Bonus points - there are enough Satanic Temples in NY that there is a chief one...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (lc5cP)

411 Don't the Russians run a bunch of western Green orgs?
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (eYoxG)

If not run, at least fund...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (CCSxw)

412 So the goal of crippling Europe had already been met, but like idiots these people had to prove their toughness and blow the line. Unaligned countries in the UN took note of this and other blunders at once, and are not sympathetic to the West in their demands because of the recklessness.
Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (eoQWY)
++++
Desperation voids all contracts and prior declarations. Today's promise that there will be no future deliveries of energy are tomorrow's amusing historical footnote in an article about the fourth renewal of energy contracts after the war, as a part of the explanation for why the rates are persistently higher than they were pre-war.

Blowing the pipeline prevents that kind of change.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (t0OGg)

413 If they are still around the Navy used to have aircraft that would trail really long antenna wire out the back... like miles of it to communicate with submerged submarines. Boomers IIRC.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (Q4IgG)

414 >>Bonus points - there are enough Satanic Temples in NY that there is a chief one..

I think Portland holds the Title.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (s4qIM)

415 So…do we believe if this is true that Russia doesn’t know? And they haven’t done anything because?

Looks like weave returned to the perpetual war normal!

Posted by: Piper at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (ZdaMQ)

416 BTW,
There probably was a forth bomb that failed, and someone has that. It will be traceable.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (jZmoD)

417
The man can't even dress himself.

Of course he did it.../s
Posted by: Captain Marko Ramius at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (CCSxw)

https://youtu.be/A1veW1s24Xo?t=6

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (Zz0t1)

418 Huh. The chinese want their balloon back? I'd say fuck you, but I am sure we are rushing to accommodate.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (zZu0s)
---
They would dock vassal points if we didn't.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (krQz2)

419 I could imagine a scenario where they rigged the thing to blow and then did it accidentally because some drug addled zoomer sent an automated email by mistake while trying to do something else.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (9UlRk)

420 I dunno.

I suppose I'll take Biden is an idiot for $500 Alex.

The Swedes say they know the answer, but can't reveal it. Why?

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (+DS2f)

421 Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.
Seems to be relevant.

Posted by: sharon

This. A thousand times this.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:57 PM (GnNvu)

There were similar torpedoing of potential talks with Macron and Schultz before the war started. Also blocked by the US.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (eoQWY)

422 I'll go further and say Russia is now absolutely not a danger to NATO in Europe and hasn't been one in decades. Russia's ability to project force beyond it's borders, thanks to its dumb-ass decision to invade Ukraine has been exposed and non-existent.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (b5LfX)

423 Hersh isn't breaking this story. There are already so many dots on the page you can see the cat staring back at you. FFS, Biden bragged that he'd do it.

Trivia: Hersh broke My Lai by getting William Calley to talk after he was court-martialed in secret. A young Colin Powell ran the investigation and pinned it all on Calley.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (SJsWC)

424 >>Blowing the pipeline prevents that kind of change.

Finally. A Win we can set up for Kamala!

Posted by: White House at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (s4qIM)

425 Huh. The chinese want their balloon back? I'd say fuck you, but I am sure we are rushing to accommodate.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (zZu0s)
++++
It fell in our EEZ. They can pound sand. I don't know what they're bitching about. We got a disintegrated comms array we have to fish out of the sea, and they got a whole spy plane.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (t0OGg)

426 Could it be true? Sure. Russia blowing up its own pipeline was always stupid as hell. They could just "turn off the spigot" if they wanted to stop the oil flow. It could easily be other things as well.

IF Russia did it, 2 things.
1. The spigot is turned off. And 2. They get to play the world victim card.

If they turn it off, they are the heavy. If it's blown up, they are the victim.

"But muh Pipeline!"

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (GnNvu)

427 The Kagan cult needs removed via concrete and lead.
Posted by: Crom Laughs at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (Gcdtg)

How RUDE!!!!

Posted by: Elena Kagan at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (Zz0t1)

428 I wouldn't be surprise at all to find out that the US did this or that it was a Russian screw up.

The only thing that bothers me about Hersh's story is that he says the US Military did it. The US would have traditionally used a cut-out that was untraceable back to them.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (UuD2k)

429 I'm not shocked or surprised, just curious about the source of the info.

Sadly, not the dirtiest thing ""our"" government has done.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (pyVNc)

430 This Administration is doing everything they can to start WWIII.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (WsJuq)

431 So…do we believe if this is true that Russia doesn’t know? And they haven’t done anything because?

Russia doesn't want to give Biden an excuse to formally enter the war.

They are having their hands full with the Ukes using our weapons. They don't want to face the US using them.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (lc5cP)

432 If they had built a t-section every mile or so, then repairing it would be easier, right?

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (44ww/)

433 The Oscars have been in shocking decline for years—from plummeting ratings, representation issues, the irrelevance of Old Hollywood in the face of streamers (not to mention the Andrea Riseborough controversy, Envelopegate and Will Smith’s handsy tantrum). Recently, Former Paramount CEO Barry Diller offered his own prognosis of the beleaguered industry showcase. Spoiler alert: The situation’s terminal.

“It’s an antiquity,” the current IAC and Expedia chairman told Firing Line‘s Margaret Hoover of the awards process. Citing the Riseborough Affair, Diller noted the internal collapse the movie and awards-show industry have long been suffering. “All awards ceremonies were based on this hierarchical process of a movie going to a theater, building up some word of mouth if it was successful, having that word of mouth carry itself over,” Diller said. “That path no longer exists.”

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (RHGPo)

434 >>Bonus points - there are enough Satanic Temples in NY that there is a chief one..

I think Portland holds the Title.
Posted by: garrett

How many Satanic Temples are there in Moscow?

Posted by: Taq, Rickrolled by Jesus at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (iKBwy)

435 Russia attack the US? Where? How? No WWIII, nothing close, and never crossed anyone's mind, on any side. And of course Moscow knew or assumed, instantly, it was the US - or the UK, along with Norway, with Polish cheering - or any permutation of that, doesn't matter.

And of course Moscow had already gamed out things assuming as worst-case that N2 sales would end, so short-term impact was baked in as a contingency.

And what's this nonsense about European vassalage or their fate not being in their own hands? The EU has played bad-faith hardball at all times in the trade sphere (as is generally to be expected). Their energy idiocy is entirely of their own volition, ditto their military incapacity.

The (duh, obvious) smart move all along would be to cultivate *multiple* sources of gas, for the (again, duh obvious) purpose of competition on price and redundancy for situations just like this. Such things were never even considered - though there was some wake-up involved when Trump killed N2 and was pushing US gas imports.

Just as in the US, "green" idiocy is a choice, and Europe has jumped on that nonsense harder than CA.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (OTzUX)

436 >> I'll go further and say Russia is now absolutely not a danger to NATO in Europe and hasn't been one in decades. Russia's ability to project force beyond it's borders, thanks to its dumb-ass decision to invade Ukraine has been exposed and non-existent.

That's a pretty bad read.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (s4qIM)

437 411 Don't the Russians run a bunch of western Green orgs?
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (eYoxG)

Prob. Idk. I was referencing the GER Green Party. The actual party not the movement.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (1ais2)

438 Russian Disinformation News: the only source to be 100% accurate for the past 6 years!

Posted by: Crazy to be sane at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (YqQ+/)

439 The Russians know who did it already.

Posted by: fd at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (iayUP)

440 Let's be clear, NO one thinks Russia blew up the pipeline.

There are only two possible culprits

The US
One of the US's allies using US equipment.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (lc5cP)

441 So…do we believe if this is true that Russia doesn’t know? And they haven’t done anything because?

Looks like weave returned to the perpetual war normal!
Posted by: Piper at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (ZdaMQ)

They knew at once, if they didn't know of the plan beforehand. They were already using the sanctions to move away from engagement with the West. This just gave them more reasons to.

They will make us pay eventually - the spike of oil and gas prices we induced is a good start and they just rake in money for it.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (eoQWY)

442 Ms. Parker's opening statement at House Oversight hearing is a great watch.

Posted by: Fool Otto at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (DB16e)

443 If Hersh has the receipts, then goodie, but of course everyone knows this already. And anyone pretending they don't know it already is a liar and a Russian agent*.

*I just said Russian agent because that's what they always say.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (ZD1/Q)

444 o…do we believe if this is true that Russia doesn’t know? And they haven’t done anything because?

Russia doesn't want to give Biden an excuse to formally enter the war.

They are having their hands full with the Ukes using our weapons. They don't want to face the US using them.

Posted by: 18-1

---

It sucks to know that Russia is the side that is trying to avoid a full-on war.

Posted by: If we had signed, we would have opened our borders and killed our own manufacturers - Ukraine, 2013 at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (ZLyax)

445 The only thing that bothers me about Hersh's story is that he says the US Military did it. The US would have traditionally used a cut-out that was untraceable back to them.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (UuD2k)
++++
A clandestine undersea demolition operation in a military hotspot half a world away is a pretty tall order for a cutout. The only thing I can think of that comes close is the Glomar Explorer, where the CIA used Howard Hughes as the cutout but even that was too big to keep secret and so they spun a story around it and did it in public instead.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (t0OGg)

446 422 I'll go further and say Russia is now absolutely not a danger to NATO in Europe and hasn't been one in decades. Russia's ability to project force beyond it's borders, thanks to its dumb-ass decision to invade Ukraine has been exposed and non-existent.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (b5LfX)

They never really had it. Even the USSR was really only ever a danger to their immediate neighbors. Except for the nukes.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (UuD2k)

447 >>> 252
==
That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.
Posted by: DaisyB at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (AbL8c)

Why do you believe our so-called leaders give a shit about that?

This is what they *want*.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (llON8)

448 The mayor and all four council members in New Jersey's East Hanover township are switching from the Democrat to Republican Party, in a move they say is in the "best interest of the community."

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (RHGPo)

449 Been expecting a Flaming Skull, but while it's probably true
Can II get a insurance policy on Hersh,Deep State won't be happy

Posted by: Skip at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (AKgG3)

450 But Seymour Hersh ... I dunno. He's been wildly wrong more often than right, and what he is credited with as scoops were more often sensational things dropped in his lap, as he had the pull and connections to bring them to a larger audience.

OTO - the Biden administration is just dumb and venial and unthinking enough to do order such a thing, without considering consequences. Or - horrifying thought - they wanted exactly such dire consequences as may come out of this.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (xnmPy)

451 This part doesn’t make sense. They’re planning an act of war and they’re worried about reporting requirements? It’s like robbing a bank and worrying about the getaway car being properly insured.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (u73oe)

If I was making a wild guess, I would say that they set this up in a compartmentalized manner so no one part had enough information to ask for the orders in writing.

The Navy divers set up an Easter Egg hunt, the counter measures people didn't check the pipelines, oops.
The Norwegians got the info on what the freqs were, but another group dropped a sonar bouy. Possibly the US dropped another bouy.
No reporting is needed there since there was no overt axction by covert units

The Intel committee can't report on any act of war they don't get told about, and can't start action to prevent it.
Imagine pushing through BBB once it was found out that Biden covertly angling for a war

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (xhaym)

452 ++++
That's a good picture of her.
///
link broken for me

Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (MLrvz)

453 "Their energy idiocy is entirely of their own volition, ditto their military incapacity."

The GER Green Party is the CIA. From inception until now. The whole thing.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (1ais2)

454 Had we disbanded NATO following the Soviet Collapse we wouldn't be here.

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (C7jzY)

455 Prob. Idk. I was referencing the GER Green Party. The actual party not the movement.
Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (1ais2)

A distinction without a difference...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (CCSxw)

456 454 Had we disbanded NATO following the Soviet Collapse we wouldn't be here.
Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (C7jzY)

A pity.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (eYoxG)

457 Whatever "the truth" really is, it's probably far more stupid than this.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

In Len Deighton's novel Funeral In Berlin, a burned out Soviet General is musing about the latest diplomatic crisis. He thinks that was stupid, and their response will be stupid, and our response will be stupid. And here we are.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (FVME7)

458 Of course, we blew it up.

We needed steam to send 100 BILLION more dollars to Ukraine for laundering. And crippling a pipeline is a bonus for the eco dicks.

How is this even questionable?

Posted by: Seems Legit at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (DcKNO)

459 I am so glad I am not in the army anymore.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (44ww/)

460 Force and manpower go out the window if someone decides to light off a nuke. Hell, anyone setting one off intentionally would get the entire globe shitting it's pants or creaming their jeans- depending. In some cases both at once.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (zZu0s)

461 Time to rebuy defense contractor stock.

Posted by: LASue at February 09, 2023 02:09 PM (Ed8Zd)

-----------

Long potassium iodine and psyllium.

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (9lMLi)

462 425 Huh. The chinese want their balloon back? I'd say fuck you, but I am sure we are rushing to accommodate.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:11 PM (zZu0s)

I seem to recall in the first few month of GW Bush's first term, our Chinese friends forced a US plane out of the sky, held the crew hostage and sent the plane back to us in pieces. They can eff off.

Posted by: Bilwis Devourer of Innocent Souls, I'm starvin' over here at February 09, 2023 02:17 PM (cupoy)

463 Maybe Russia will nuke DC. *fingers crossed*

Posted by: Blow it up! at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (UKe2c)

464 So Europe can Biden for their fuel shortages and the resultant loss of life.

Posted by: Darth Randall at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (wUTz1)

465 2 In other news...water is wet.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at February 09, 2023 01:27 PM (YIVH2)
----
What about dehydrated water?

Posted by: Ciampino - instant water, just add coffee at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (qfLjt)

466 Don't the Russians run a bunch of western Green orgs?
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:10 PM (eYoxG)

They used to. The Russians ran out of money in the 90's for funding them for some reason.

I have wondered who was funding them since then. No one seems interested.

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (xhaym)

467 I don’t know about Seymour Hersh. I do know, from my middle school days, that Seymour Butts wrote a book titled Under the Bleachers.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (u73oe)

468 433 “It’s an antiquity,” the current IAC and Expedia chairman told Firing Line‘s Margaret Hoover of the awards process. Citing the Riseborough Affair, Diller noted the internal collapse the movie and awards-show industry have long been suffering. “All awards ceremonies were based on this hierarchical process of a movie going to a theater, building up some word of mouth if it was successful, having that word of mouth carry itself over,” Diller said. “That path no longer exists.”
Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:14 PM (RHGPo)

========

I'm fairly certain the early Best Picture winners were about awarding producers who made a lot of money.

That changed a while back, but it's now seems to be the opposite: the producer that makes the least money gets the award.

There was a happy coincidence where awarding producers also affirmed the tastes of the masses. That's the antithesis of what the Academy wants to do these days.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (LvTSG)

469 So while credibility of "source" is always a factor in evaluating something, it's not the only one.
Posted by: rhomboid at February 09, 2023 02:06 PM (OTzUX)

There's not much else to evaluate here. No one here has any way to confirm the veracity of the details.

An American-hating commie using an anonymous source to report on a supposed classified operation doesn't add anything new to the party unless you choose to believe the source. If you don't then nothing has changed from before which is all just speculation.

Posted by: Sjg at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (gDSJf)

470
They never really had it. Even the USSR was really only ever a danger to their immediate neighbors. Except for the nukes.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (UuD2k

Pls tell that to any US tanker in EUR at the time. Or any strategic planner.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (1ais2)

471 Gee, I don't know. We could have really done something dangerous and undercut the Rooskies, selling Europe gas at a cheaper price!

Posted by: RobertM at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (+/lOf)

472 That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.
Posted by: DaisyB at February 09, 2023 01:54 PM (AbL8c)

Why do you believe our so-called leaders give a shit about that?

This is what they *want*.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (llON

------

I thought that was an obvious WEF bonus.

Posted by: Seems Legit at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (DcKNO)

473 The Lord of the Rings is filled with details, too. You can track the phase of the moon mentioned in the text and find it fits a 28-day schedule, for example.

Yet it's still fiction.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at February 09, 2023 01:37 PM (UJJWg)

It wouldn't surprise me if Hersh embellished the story with a bunch of fake details. But the basic premise, that the pipelineS were blown up by U.S. agents acting under Pedo Joe's orders is pretty damned believable. Since Joe bragged about it beforehand.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (tkR6S)

474 link broken for me
Posted by: sockamster, Doctor at blogothopy at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (MLrvz)
++++
https://is.gd/4GZD0e

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (t0OGg)

475 Or - horrifying thought - they wanted exactly such dire consequences as may come out of this.
------------------
Everything they do is hostage taking and brinkmanship. This is how they roll. Amazing what you can get away with by having a lap cat media.

Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (C7jzY)

476 Of course, we blew it up.

We needed steam to send 100 BILLION more dollars to Ukraine for laundering. And crippling a pipeline is a bonus for the eco dicks.

How is this even questionable?

Posted by: Seems Legit

--

Stop it. Just because Biden promised to blow it up and our Secretary of State received a text message immediately after it was blown up saying "It's done" and our allies investigated and refused to disclose their findings doesn't mean that we blew it up.

That's Science!

Posted by: If we had signed, we would have opened our borders and killed our own manufacturers - Ukraine, 2013 at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (ZLyax)

477 448 The mayor and all four council members in New Jersey's East Hanover township are switching from the Democrat to Republican Party, in a move they say is in the "best interest of the community."
Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (RHGPo)

And that was 2 days ago...and then yesterday, another Repub councilman was shot...

just sayin'....

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (exHjb)

478
Why should Biden and his administration have to adhere to national or international rules?

Posted by: portlandon at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (+oR7L)

479 Isn't part of the upside for C4 is that is is stable and not really reactive until an electrical current is applied?

Note: I am not familiar with modern military explosives too extensively.
Posted by: Aetius451AD

C-4 might be. I'm wondering how salt water tight the blasting caps/remote detonators are.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (GnNvu)

C4 is like TNT. It needs a spark and a firm nudge. C4 needs blasting caps to detonate. I've used burning C4 to boil water in the field when everything is wet.

And C4 does well in water. There are waterproof blasting caps. I've used them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (BdMk6)

480 446 422 I'll go further and say Russia is now absolutely not a danger to NATO in Europe and hasn't been one in decades. Russia's ability to project force beyond it's borders, thanks to its dumb-ass decision to invade Ukraine has been exposed and non-existent.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (b5LfX)

They never really had it. Even the USSR was really only ever a danger to their immediate neighbors. Except for the nukes.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:15 PM (UuD2k)

No, they had global force projection capabilities and to a very limited extent Russia still has it.

Back in the day(WW2 and prior) most of the European powers could operate meaningfully around the globe. Not so much anymore.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (eYoxG)

481 District police will soon become lots more aggressive against homeless drug addicts, because a querty Democrat was mugged in her apartment building elevator yesterday.

Attacking Democrats is not allowed.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (b5LfX)

482 " Yes, negotiations and diplomacy follow the situation on the ground, not the other way around. We need to make sure that when there are negotiations, and there will eventually be, Ukraine is in the strongest possible position. That is not now. "

Condi Rice VOA 1/13/23

Posted by: mr tmz at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (rJ48h)

483 The only way I believe Biden would order the pipeline be blown up is if China told him to. China is hoping to corner all of Russia's energy exports. See the pipelines being built.
Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at February 09, 2023 01:42 PM (bZMpx)

Putin had already told China that the gas from Nord was going to go to him henceforward before the blow. No need to run an op 2 years earlier.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (eoQWY)

484 I would bet that Germany was kept in the dark.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

There is no way Germany would have approved this.

Hunting for a reason, well maybe the Gov. wanted to shut it down but did not want responsibility for dumping the economy and killing citizens with cold and starvation. Nah - the gov. wanted the gas more than the public even.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (jZmoD)

485 Each pipeline had two pipes. They only got 3 out of 4 pipes. Biden even fucked this up.

Posted by: Valiant at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (cy2xC)

486 473 It wouldn't surprise me if Hersh embellished the story with a bunch of fake details. But the basic premise, that the pipelineS were blown up by U.S. agents acting under Pedo Joe's orders is pretty damned believable. Since Joe bragged about it beforehand.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2023 02:18 PM (tkR6S)

========

And if the general thrust is correct but the details are all bullshit, then it becomes easier to dismiss the overall assertion later since Hersh's take is one of the earliest, detailed takes, and it will soon be debunked.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (LvTSG)

487 Well, it's not like they made something out of whole cloth and lied about it.

Posted by: The Gulf Of Tonkin at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (EIIsz)

488 That would be spectacularly idiotic as this has plunged the UK into a cost of living crisis.

I mean, Klaus' #1 commandment to world leaders is "cause a cost of living crisis, kill everyone who complains, and feed bugs to the survivors".

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (ZGrMX)

489 Couldn't Putin had just shut off the pipeline at his end?

I think he could have.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (krQz2)

490 "At the press briefing that followed, Biden defiantly said, "If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.""

That slapping sound you heard when he said this was the generalized face palm from all the CIA/DOD/WH/Etc folks who said, "We have to be werry, werry quiet! There are Rabbits about!"

Posted by: RobertM at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (+/lOf)

491 The US would have traditionally used a cut-out that was untraceable back to them.

-
They stole the White House in plain view of the entire world.

Why would they think there's anything they can't get away with?

Posted by: Methos at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (kOpft)

492 >>> 290 So many of these decisions can be attributed to the crazy notion that the global warming is going to kill the planet. Could it be that the blosing up of the pipeline is just another way to eliminate gas and oil as fuels. This way you donlt need permission and people freezinig to death cannot be blamed on government.
Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 09, 2023 01:58 PM (Y+l9t)

sharon Johnson is right too!

Hersh could be completely full of shit in all his claimed details but I've suspected we did it, or drove it, simply because of "who benefits". You have to remember what these psycho idiots think of as "benefits". See also, woo floo BS for the past three years, just for starters.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (llON8)

493 Had we disbanded NATO following the Soviet Collapse we wouldn't be here.
Posted by: Puddihead at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (C7jzY)

- Had NATO disbanded.
- Had NATO stopped expanding eastward (as promised).
- Had we stayed out of Ukraine (as promised).

There were lots of points where this could have been prevented and, in each case, the US government chose otherwise.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (uvymP)

494 And if the general thrust is correct but the details are all bullshit, then it becomes easier to dismiss the overall assertion later since Hersh's take is one of the earliest, detailed takes, and it will soon be debunked.

Yep.

My argument from yesterday was Hersh was fed a flawed story for this reason.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (lc5cP)

495
Condi Rice VOA 1/13/23
Posted by: mr tmz at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (rJ48h)

You asked for it.......

https://youtu.be/_c51qJ3Ad_4?t=27

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (Zz0t1)

496 481 District police will soon become lots more aggressive against homeless drug addicts, because a querty Democrat was mugged in her apartment building elevator yesterday.

Attacking Democrats is not allowed.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (b5LfX)

Shocked she's living in DC and not VA...DC is not safe anywhere overnight except the main Capitol area right now...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (exHjb)

497 Adrienne Watson, a White House spokesperson, said in an email, "This is false and complete fiction."

I think she's referring to her own email.

The Badlands crew had one of their best shows last night on this topic. This exposé is nuclear.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (CaJIi)

498 And if the general thrust is correct but the details are all bullshit, then it becomes easier to dismiss the overall assertion later since Hersh's take is one of the earliest, detailed takes, and it will soon be debunked.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (LvTSG)

Something something kraken

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (9UlRk)

499 The cover exercise is in June. 48 hour timers are attached to the c4 explosives, and the pipeline explodes in September?

Salt water corrosion?

Or just bullshit from Hersch?

Posted by: Steven Fletcher at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (+eUEt)

500 Been expecting a Flaming Skull, but while it's probably true
Can II get a insurance policy on Hersh,Deep State won't be happy

Posted by: Skip at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (AKgG3)

---------

Seymour Hirsch didn't kill himself.

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (l+kMy)

501 The incredibly detailed report was written with the same template he's used since 1968. Best to ignore it.

Posted by: Art Deco at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (1BrBu)

502
And if the general thrust is correct but the details are all bullshit, then it becomes easier to dismiss the overall assertion later since Hersh's take is one of the earliest, detailed takes, and it will soon be debunked.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (LvTSG)

Yeah, common problem. The general thrust isn't too hard to make out from a distance (many people here myself included concluded it was likely a US/US-backed job at the start). The fine details are much harder to discern.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (eYoxG)

503 421 Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.
Posted by: sharon

There were similar torpedoing of potential talks with Macron and Schultz before the war started. Also blocked by the US.
Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM

Kosovo and Serbia would probably have some sort of treaty by now, except the US has reasons to limit peace options (like land swaps), or the EU wants to keep poor Kosovars from flooding western Europe looking for jobs, so they perpetually keep the region unstable.

Hell, the Europeans loved it because it because we still deploy tons of troops there under the NATO banner, so they could say they were contributing to NATO while avoid Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: Military Moron at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (AjVcg)

504 C-4 is remarkably stable. I've picked up unexploaded

Before all the coastal bases were folded into the golden gate park recreation area, one could pickup bits of c4 off the bushes from poorly detonated charges in training area. Some trespassing may have been removed. Free campfire starter.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenko Solutions at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (huxld)

505 returned to the perpetual war normal!
Posted by: Piper at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (ZdaMQ)

I think you misspelled "never stopped."

Posted by: BurtTC at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (ZD1/Q)

506 428
The only thing that bothers me about Hersh's story is that he says the US Military did it. The US would have traditionally used a cut-out that was untraceable back to them.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (UuD2k)
----
They used an internal cutout in the form of Navy divers.

Posted by: Ciampino -- instant water, just add coffee at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (qfLjt)

507 489 Couldn't Putin had just shut off the pipeline at his end?

I think he could have.
Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (krQz2)

He already had iirc.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (eYoxG)

508 If they turn it off, they are the heavy. If it's blown up, they are the victim.

"But muh Pipeline!"
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:13 PM (GnNvu)

The Russians had already turned it off, the compressors were off line and the replacements that had been serviced in Cananda were stuck in a German port waiting for permission from the EU to ship to Russia in spite of the embargo. NS 2 was not opened yet because it had not been certified and wouldn't be until the EU and the US said it was OK to do so.

Hate the man all you want, but this argument is not based on reality

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (xhaym)

509 My argument from yesterday was Hersh was fed a flawed story for this reason.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (lc5cP)

I'm coming around to London seeded the story to escalate with RUS.

Their lack of presence in the story is strong evidence of authorship.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (1ais2)

510 502 Yeah, common problem. The general thrust isn't too hard to make out from a distance (many people here myself included concluded it was likely a US/US-backed job at the start). The fine details are much harder to discern.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (eYoxG)

=========

And this becomes the problem with someone like Hersh. He sees smoke, knows there's a fire, and then he's given details that affirm what he already thinks and runs with it. Add in the anonymous sources, and this report is suspect as fuck.

So, no, Hersh is not suddenly to be praised for saying mean things about Biden. He's probably being used by Biden's people to undermine the public's perception of the event.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (LvTSG)

511 Wanted the pipe blowed up
-China
-Greens
-Poles
-maybe some in UK, US who wanted Russia to lose war
-usual masters of universe who think they can control everything including economies without gas and nations at war

Did not want pipe blowed up
-Russia
-Germany
-Most of Europe who do not want to freeze and be out of work
-Japan, ROW who do not want high gas prices

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (jZmoD)

512 Sen. John "Lumpy" Fetterman (D-Pa.) was hospitalized Wednesday night after feeling lightheaded during a Senate Democratic retreat.

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (RHGPo)

513 https://is.gd/4GZD0e
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM (t0OGg)

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (uvymP)

514
C-4 might be. I'm wondering how salt water tight the blasting caps/remote detonators are.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 01:50 PM (GnNvu)

C4 is like TNT. It needs a spark and a firm nudge. C4 needs blasting caps to detonate. I've used burning C4 to boil water in the field when everything is wet.

And C4 does well in water. There are waterproof blasting caps. I've used them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM

I doubt we used C4. The Navy has specialized explosive packages for this sort of thing. We routinely use them for testing new ships survivialibity by setting off massive explosions to make sure the ship can survive a near miss.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (uNylN)

515 Remember how Pizzagate came out shortly before Epstein leaked?

There are only two answers for that

1) Some White Hat got wind of Epstein but had some of the details wrong
2) The people running Epstein knew the story would leak and floated Pizzagate to claim the Epstein story was some crazy conspiracy theory.

And...it was #2. How do I know? Because lefties and the FNM *intentionally* conflate Pizzagate and Epstein all the time now.

I suspect Hersh's story is another #2 here...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (lc5cP)

516 512 Sen. John "Lumpy" Fetterman (D-Pa.) was hospitalized Wednesday night after feeling lightheaded during a Senate Democratic retreat.
Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (RHGPo)

=========

He didn't accidentally say crudite, did he?

He'd have to resign his Senate seat in that case.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (LvTSG)

517 Germany was already telling it's people they needed to gather wood for the winter because they were going to freeze because Germany would no longer use 'fossil fuels' for energy.

The pipeline didn't matter. Now it REALLY doesn't matter.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (Zz0t1)

518 It would not surprise me in the least if any of this were true, but a single anonymous source from Seymour Hersh is not enough to hang your hat on.

Posted by: Bitcoin Fixes Everything at February 09, 2023 02:26 PM (V6W16)

519 Doubt it's possible. There is VLF/ULF (very low freq/ultra) capability, but that requires a very long antenna.

The signal was sent by sonar buoy in Hersh's piece.
==
So an acoustic signal, makes sense.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:26 PM (sJAKh)

520 511 Wanted the pipe blowed up
-China
-Greens
-Poles
-maybe some in UK, US who wanted Russia to lose war
-usual masters of universe who think they can control everything including economies without gas and nations at war

Did not want pipe blowed up
-Russia
-Germany
-Most of Europe who do not want to freeze and be out of work
-Japan, ROW who do not want high gas prices
Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (jZmoD)

In your "wanted it blown up" you forgot Norway, who opened a pipeline to Poland the same week as the blow up...they had HIGH desires to not compete with Russia for European dominance...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:26 PM (exHjb)

521 Trump's breath destroyed the Nordstream pipelines and not US divers !!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Dorcus Blimeline at February 09, 2023 02:26 PM (B/7uq)

522 Under the Trump administration, the success of the energy sector in the US had seriously blunted Russia's energy weapon. This administration destroyed our thriving energy sector, and then blew up Russia's pipeline?

We have some malevolent and stupid people running the country.

Posted by: Blake - semi lurker at large at February 09, 2023 02:26 PM (2YtOq)

523
=========

He didn't accidentally say crudite, did he?

He'd have to resign his Senate seat in that case.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:25 PM (LvTSG)

I thought you couldn't say 'macaca.'

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Zz0t1)

524 Also story last week from the Israelis aboout how Zelensky and Putin were ready to negotiate early on and the West kayoed peace talks.

To be fair, most of the Western leadership would rather send troops to "Palestine" now and kill the Israelis.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (ZGrMX)

525 "Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline?!?"
To cripple German industry and freeze its people.

Did you know that Russians and Germans sometime don't like each other and do bad things to each other?

It is extraordinary to see so many conservative and right-wing outlets 100% buy Seymour Hersh's unsourced story. All of a sudden, they trust an anti-American communist. In a way, it shows how low the legitimacy of the US government has fallen. The government in DC has certainly earned its illegitimacy, but that's no reason to believe an unsourced story.

Why is Russia invading Ukraine? In Putin's own words, it is a nazi regime and its lands properly belong to Moscow.
Take that logic and apply it to Germany. Putin is refighting WWII in a number of ways. He laments the loss of Moscow's post-war empire. East Germany was a part of that empire, if you recall.

So, his antagonism to Ukraine just as well applies to any German government which also rejects Moscow's hegemony.

Who blew up the pipeline? I haven't seen any real evidence. But I can see the political motivation for Moscow to do it as much as DC. Maybe they both did it at the same time.

Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Yp6nz)

526 PS - And Norway does also have a pipeline to England. See, I'm still keeping England as #1 culprit

...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (exHjb)

527 And if the general thrust is correct but the details are all bullshit, then it becomes easier to dismiss the overall assertion later since Hersh's take is one of the earliest, detailed takes, and it will soon be debunked.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:20 PM (LvTSG)

I'm curious though, how would one debunk a detail without simultaneously validating the overall assertion?

Posted by: moon_over_vermont at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (NxOLn)

528 523 I thought you couldn't say 'macaca.'
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Zz0t1)

=========

Macaca is just nonsense.

Crudite is a killing word.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (LvTSG)

529 2) The people running Epstein knew the story would leak and floated Pizzagate to claim the Epstein story was some crazy conspiracy theory.

And...it was #2. How do I know? Because lefties and the FNM *intentionally* conflate Pizzagate and Epstein all the time now.
==
Number 2 is how they roll. Tell the truth, but embed some crazy shit (aliens are real, but they anal probed us) and then people dismiss the whole thing for decades.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (+JJvP)

530 When is the last time Hersh was actually right about something? Vietnam? This story has one source. One. And Hersh has bordered on being a fabulist for at least two decades.

Please let’s not fall into the trap of all of a sudden trusting this doofus NOW because it suits our politics. It’s plausible, sure, but I don’t think Hersh’s price by itself is enough to be convincing. Sorry.

Posted by: SomeAsshole at February 09, 2023 02:28 PM (1q60j)

531 The cover exercise is in June. 48 hour timers are attached to the c4 explosives, and the pipeline explodes in September?

Salt water corrosion?

Or just bullshit from Hersch?

Posted by: Steven Fletcher at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (+eUEt)
---------
In the post, the claim is that Biden wanted more time to make up his mind. Presumably the timers could be reset remotely?

"But now Biden threw a curveball and demanded that the charges be remotely detonated, so he could continue to delay actually deciding whether or not to commit an act of war against Russia or not."

Posted by: ShainS -- I'm a Freeborn Man of the USA at February 09, 2023 02:28 PM (JkdQ8)

532 527 I'm curious though, how would one debunk a detail without simultaneously validating the overall assertion?
Posted by: moon_over_vermont at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (NxOLn)

==========

"This person wasn't there at the time. He was in another country."

It's that sort of thing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:28 PM (LvTSG)

533 I've used burning C4 to boil water in the field when everything is wet.

And C4 does well in water. There are waterproof blasting caps. I've used them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:19 PM

Burning C4 has a ... peculiar ... smell.

Some cannon fuse will burn underwater as well.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 02:28 PM (a3Q+t)

534 It's worth looking back at the 'conservative' commentators (mostly off this blog) who talked about how this was probably caused by 'poor Russian maintenance'. That excuse smelled then, and it really stinks now.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (pyVNc)

535 Number 2 is how they roll. Tell the truth, but embed some crazy shit (aliens are real, but they anal probed us) and then people dismiss the whole thing for decades.

Alternative theory: aliens aren't real, it's just the federal government kidnapping people to set gays loose on. Hence the anal probing.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (ZGrMX)

536 525 "Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline?!?"
To cripple German industry and freeze its people.

Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023

They don't need to blow up the pipeline to do so.

They had already shutdown the pipeline.

This just removes a Russian negotiating chip/leverage over Europe. It'd be self-sabotaging.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (eYoxG)

537 534 It's worth looking back at the 'conservative' commentators (mostly off this blog) who talked about how this was probably caused by 'poor Russian maintenance'. That excuse smelled then, and it really stinks now.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (pyVNc)

==========

I still think it was Colonel Mustard.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (LvTSG)

538

Alien rapebots tried to get a valve job but forgot that on earth it's " righty tighty "...

Posted by: Hunter Bidet, Running Down Jill's Inner Thigh at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (rbv8d)

539 Kosovo and Serbia would probably have some sort of treaty by now, except the US has reasons to limit peace options (like land swaps), or the EU wants to keep poor Kosovars from flooding western Europe looking for jobs, so they perpetually keep the region unstable.

Hell, the Europeans loved it because it because we still deploy tons of troops there under the NATO banner, so they could say they were contributing to NATO while avoid Iraq and Afghanistan.
Posted by: Military Moron at February 09, 2023 02:23 PM (AjVcg)

Remember how, before Trump, peace in the Middle East was always a process designed to fail?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (uvymP)

540 Salt water corrosion?
Or just bullshit from Hersch?
Posted by: Steven Fletcher at February 09, 2023 02:22 PM (+eUEt)

Sien and drag netters in the North Sea have to be really cautions about dredging up dumped shells, unexploded mines and old chemical weapons shells dumped after WWI

Any underwater explosive packet that can't last a year in the ocean may not be favored by anyone's navy. Except maybe the Paraguayan Navy, I suppose.

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (xhaym)

541 One thing I can say for certain, even after Hersh's piece, no one will be investigating this in the MSM. Not even a single reporter.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:30 PM (Y5qcH)

542 534 It's worth looking back at the 'conservative' commentators (mostly off this blog) who talked about how this was probably caused by 'poor Russian maintenance'. That excuse smelled then, and it really stinks now.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (pyVNc)

I agree. Classic disinformation tactic, explain it all away with some hand waving and then say "You can't prove it's NOT true!!!"

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:30 PM (trdmm)

543 "Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline?!?"
To cripple German industry and freeze its people.

They

had

the

spigot

you

window-licking

spaz.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 02:30 PM (44ww/)

544 Qui bono?

Posted by: Philosomoron at February 09, 2023 02:30 PM (a3Q+t)

545 526 PS - And Norway does also have a pipeline to England. See, I'm still keeping England as #1 culprit...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (exHjb)

+1

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:30 PM (pyVNc)

546 Read a few stories yesterday on this and Hersh does have a history of government axes he has grinding

Posted by: Skip at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (xhxe8)

547 >>> 419 I could imagine a scenario where they rigged the thing to blow and then did it accidentally because some drug addled zoomer sent an automated email by mistake while trying to do something else.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:12 PM (9UlRk)

LOL

*zoomer in the car, pushing the garage remote button*

"Why won't the stupid $#@*&%#*(& door open?!"

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (llON8)

548 Who blew up the pipeline? I haven't seen any real evidence. But I can see the political motivation for Moscow to do it as much as DC. Maybe they both did it at the same time.

Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM

So you are saying that Russia had the motivation to blow up it's own pipeline instead of just turning off the gas?

That does not pass the smell test.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (uNylN)

549 Time to impeach the pants shitter in chief.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (JbZEe)

550 I'm curious though, how would one debunk a detail without simultaneously validating the overall assertion?
____

We do it all the time! Sometimes we don't even need to debunk anything, we just say it's debunked and that's enough for a majority of people. We're professionals!

Posted by: "News" Media at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (fs1hN)

551 Number 2 is how they roll. Tell the truth, but embed some crazy shit (aliens are real, but they anal probed us) and then people dismiss the whole thing for decades.

I roll in number 2 every night!!!!

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (Zz0t1)

552 Who blew up the pipeline? I haven't seen any real evidence. But I can see the political motivation for Moscow to do it as much as DC. Maybe they both did it at the same time.
Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Yp6nz)

Yeah, because when you control the spigot, blowing up the pipeline makes sense. Really? Kagan, Nuland is that you?

Posted by: Crom Laughs at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (I76dP)

553 Sen. John "Lumpy" Fetterman (D-Pa.) was hospitalized Wednesday night after feeling lightheaded during a Senate Democratic retreat.
Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:24 PM (RHGPo)
---
Yup. Feeling began to come back slowly from his head and it scared him.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (krQz2)

554 Where does the window licking thing come from? I am guessing a movie, but I have never known the derivation.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (zZu0s)

555 I still think it was Colonel Mustard.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (LvTSG)

Martin Mull is very sus

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (pyVNc)

556 Welp. I am back to London did it and also screwed us again.

God I hate them.

Posted by: Thesokorus at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (1ais2)

557
That does not pass the smell test.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (uNylN)

I smell something burning.....

Posted by: John Fetterman at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (Zz0t1)

558 Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline?!?"
To cripple German industry and freeze its people.
==
So a drug dealer, gets you hooked first. Then he cuts off your supply. He doesn't blow up his distribution network before you get the first dose.

It really is a big stretch that Russia would invest so many years, so much money and effort and then blow it up themselves. Its not impossible, just very unlikely. The ONLY reason they would do it, would be if they built it, but then at completion realized it wouldn't work at all and they had to come up with a way to recoup its costs/save face. That's it, the only reason. Its within the realm of conceptual possibility, barely. Barely.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (8VVpY)

559 555 I still think it was Colonel Mustard.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (LvTSG)

Martin Mull is very sus
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo, food, water at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (pyVNc)

========

I claim the French maid!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (LvTSG)

560 A second Republican council member has been shot to death, just about a week after the shooting of Sayreville Councilwoman Eunice Dwumfour. Russell Heller, 51, who had been a member of the Milford Borough Council since 2020, was found around 7 a.m. on Wednesday, shot to death in the parking lot of the PSE&G in Somerset, where he was employed.

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (RHGPo)

561 @507 489 Couldn't Putin had just shut off the pipeline at his end?

I think he could have.
Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:21 PM (krQz2)

He already had iirc.

----

Correct. The "accidental explosion" theory relies on the idea that the Russians tried to restart it (possibly in preparation for actions in the near future), but neglected to take care of some important functions before they got the gas moving again.

The big oddity in this whole thing, imo, is the timing of the first explosion in relation to the others. IIRC, the first blast was ten hours before the subsequent ones. Why the gap there, particularly if the blast was intentional? I don't know.

But the Swedes have apparently found explosive residue at the blast sites, which would appear to suggest it wasn't an accident. And I'm pretty confident that the Russians wouldn't have willingly blown it up (for one thing, it was ridiculously expensive to lay the thing down). So...

Posted by: junior at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (PTw5h)

562 Burning Skeleton Head!

Posted by: Weasel at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (WoIMU)

563 Who blew up the pipeline? I haven't seen any real evidence. But I can see the political motivation for Moscow to do it as much as DC. Maybe they both did it at the same time.
Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Yp6nz)

It was a joint military exercise.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (Zz0t1)

564 Who blew up the pipeline? I haven't seen any real evidence. But I can see the political motivation for Moscow to do it as much as DC. Maybe they both did it at the same time.
Posted by: dbdbdb at February 09, 2023 02:27 PM (Yp6nz)

That's idiotic.

The pipeline was what *assured* Putin hegemony in Europe. That's why even Trump was against Germany having it while being in a military alliance against Russia, NATO. It fatally compromises any potential defense against a Russian move.

Now, Putin has no carrot for GER. So no leverage.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (eoQWY)

565 but forgot that on earth it's " righty tighty "...
Posted by: Hunter Bidet, Running Down Jill's Inner Thigh at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM

The story of Ewoks.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (a3Q+t)

566 It's stupid to say Russia blew it up, patently stupid. Why would they go to that trouble, when all they had to do to turn it off was close the valve on their end? Especially since THEY owned the pipeline? That's like saying somebody burned their own house down because they were scared it would get robbed. It's idiotic.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (trdmm)

567 Sen. John "Lumpy" Fetterman (D-Pa.) was hospitalized Wednesday night after feeling lightheaded during a Senate Democratic retreat.

Did NORAD pick up his lump?

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (CaJIi)

568 I claim the French maid!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (LvTSG)

Yvette was definitely not suss.

Her accent, sure.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (zZu0s)

569 Who did it? was always a Holy Shit Headline that got buried. Before Hersh. The dog that didn't bark.

Posted by: Ignoramus at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (SJsWC)

570 Late to the party, but I'd take anything Sy Hirsch wrote with a block of salt. He is a classic example of a journalist quoting "anonymous sources" that turned out to be people repeating hearsay or unconnected to the supposed events.

Before his book about JFK came out, he had to remove sections of it because his source about the relationship between JFK and Marilyn Monroe was arrested (and later convicted) of forging JFK's signature on bogus documents. Then he got fact-checked by someone who bothered to look up back issues of old newspapers and proved that he made up the details of a supposed front-page news story during JFK's presidency.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (fxCK2)

571 So you are saying that Russia had the motivation to blow up it's own pipeline instead of just turning off the gas?

That does not pass the smell test.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 09, 2023 02:31 PM (uNylN)

I figure the poster is someone paid to sow FUD.

Posted by: Crom Laughs at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (I76dP)

572 561 But the Swedes have apparently found explosive residue at the blast sites, which would appear to suggest it wasn't an accident. And I'm pretty confident that the Russians wouldn't have willingly blown it up (for one thing, it was ridiculously expensive to lay the thing down). So...
Posted by: junior at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (PTw5h)

==========

Have we ruled out a wildly outrageous and hilarious insurance fraud scheme?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (LvTSG)

573 We all understand we live in a banana republic, right?

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (d2bW3)

574 Seymour Hersh is a fabulist. Not saying he is wrong here, just to take what he writes and says with a grain of salt. Or a pound of it.

We are in the Age of All Conspiracies are 6 to 7 Newz Cycles Away, so yea, this may actually be true.

Posted by: Puddleglum at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (sAmhv)

575 I read the whole thing yesterday. Crazy story but rings true in a lot of ways.

I'm about 99% of the way to believing Hersh's account.

For all the Hersh-haters out there, sure, the guy has not always hit the mark. But there is enough here that any real journalist should be digging deeply into it.

And I don't mean ask the White House or CIA for comment, report that they denied it, and then say well case closed, wipe hands. I mean do some real journalism for a change.

Posted by: Brass Bancroft at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (T7017)

576 In an interview with “PBS NewsHour” host Judy Woodruff, Biden was asked how he planned to deal with the House Oversight Committee’s investigation into his son’s shady business interests in China and Ukraine.

“The public is not going to pay attention that,” Biden, 80, insisted.

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (RHGPo)

577 It's worth looking back at the 'conservative' commentators (mostly off this blog) who talked about how this was probably caused by 'poor Russian maintenance'. That excuse smelled then, and it really stinks now.
-
We're hiring

Posted by: The Daily Wire at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (kOpft)

578 And it's "casus belli", not "causus belli".
Posted by: aelfheld

Well, I was told different~

Posted by: guy with bells on his dick at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (XF9Gj)

579 I believe it was a consortium of maybe three or four countries contributing to this op. China and the US? Most definitely two of them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (BdMk6)

580 Have we ruled out a wildly outrageous and hilarious insurance fraud scheme?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (LvTSG)

This is honestly a much better theory than the other ones for why the Russians did it.

Problem is I don't think there is any insurance coverage of this nature.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (eYoxG)

581 Russia had already shut off or curtailed flow before the pipelines were destroyed. Remember when they said they couldn't fix the compressors because they couldn't get parts because of sanctions.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (Y5qcH)

582 @318 Melvin Muhammed?

Posted by: Smell the Glove at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (ABZrG)

583 Just came in from shooting holes in my car and setting the roof of my house on fire!

Posted by: Weasel at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (WoIMU)

584
“The public is not going to pay attention that,” Biden, 80, insisted.
Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (RHGPo)

These are not the droids you're looking for........

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (Zz0t1)

585 So Biden destroyed the pipeline, and is now responsible for how many dead people after the end of winter?

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (d2bW3)

586 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (trdmm)

587 I figure the poster is someone paid to sow FUD.

Lotta unfamiliar nicks on this thread.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (ZGrMX)

588 580 This is honestly a much better theory than the other ones for why the Russians did it.

Problem is I don't think there is any insurance coverage of this nature.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (eYoxG)

=========

"They told me it was insured!"
-Putin, pausing for audience laughter

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching some Best Pictures at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (LvTSG)

589 Just came in from shooting holes in my car and setting the roof of my house on fire!
Posted by: Weasel at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (WoIMU)

Doing your best Elvis impression?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (Zz0t1)

590
On Joe's orders, LOL.

Hunty probably slapped the dotard on the back of the head
and said "wtf, old man? I told you to blow that pipe up two years ago... but my pipe can't wait. Get it done, catch me in Kiev, and I'll send whatever's left of your money by the time the deal is sealed. Tick tock. Crack awaits no man, and I have a roll labeled 10% burning a hole in my pocket, buddy."

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (oINRc)

591 It was a joint military exercise.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (Zz0t1)

I was thinking about it when someone mentioned both did it above.

So, you are a wetsuit clad team swimming beside a pipeline to blow it up. You run into a second group of black clad, wetsuit wearing guys also carrying heavy explosives.

What do you do?

Seems like a scene out of Top Secret.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (zZu0s)

592 A second Republican council member has been shot to death, just about a week after the shooting of Sayreville Councilwoman Eunice Dwumfour.

From FOXN

Curtis was reportedly a former PSE&G employee who allegedly shot Heller before taking off and driving to Bridgewater, where he killed himself.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (lc5cP)

593 In the days before the destruction of the pipeline, massive protests were breaking out in Germany over rising fuel costs. Had the pipeline remained, Germany would’ve caved. So goes Germany, so goes the EU. The entire Ukraine thing would’ve collapsed.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (u73oe)

594 We all understand we live in a banana republic, right?
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (d2bW3)
---
It's all that potassium that makes it great.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (krQz2)

595 >>> 450 But Seymour Hersh ... I dunno. He's been wildly wrong more often than right, and what he is credited with as scoops were more often sensational things dropped in his lap, as he had the pull and connections to bring them to a larger audience.

OTO - the Biden administration is just dumb and venial and unthinking enough to do order such a thing, without considering consequences. Or - horrifying thought - they wanted exactly such dire consequences as may come out of this.
Posted by: Sgt. Mom at February 09, 2023 02:16 PM (xnmPy)

Never underestimate the craziness of the WEFtards and their fellow travelers. "There are too many of you" so they are heroically *spit* going to pursue their goals "by any means necessary".

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (llON8)

596 Hunter Biden and his high-powered and expensive legal team sent Rudy Giuliani, Tony Bobulinski, and 12 others a “litigation hold” letter to preserve “Laptop from Hell” records, a move seen by some critics as a public relations tactic to change the troubling narrative for the Biden family.

The litigation letter asks the individuals to “preserve potential evidence for future lawsuits related to the alleged theft of personal data that may include information from his laptop,” NBC News reported.

Posted by: SMOD at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (RHGPo)

597 573 We all understand we live in a banana republic, right?
Posted by: Wyatt Earp at February 09, 2023 02:33 PM (d2bW3)

at least Banana Republics have warm winters.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (trdmm)

598 A second Republican council member has been shot to death, just about a week after the shooting of Sayreville Councilwoman Eunice Dwumfour.

If someone shot 2 low-level Democrats it'd be wall to wall coverage on MSNBC.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (ZGrMX)

599 Hear me out guys. Hear me out, serious guys.

The guy who holds the remote, he's the one who shot the television.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (44ww/)

600 Hmmm. Klain leaves then this anonymous detailed story comes out from the POV of someone in Klsin’s position.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (N1D+s)

601 583 Just came in from shooting holes in my car and setting the roof of my house on fire!
Posted by: Weasel at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (WoIMU)

Lotta unfamiliar nicks on this thread.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (ZGrMX)

Nah, Weasel's a long timer. I figure he got some really good moonshine or someone slipped some wacky tabacky into his cigars.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (zZu0s)

602 Curtis was reportedly a former PSE&G employee who allegedly shot Heller before taking off and driving to Bridgewater, where he killed himself.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (lc5cP)
---
Sounds pretty IC.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (krQz2)

603 I just wonder why 'the source' is feeling so open about things now. There have to be an easily-identified very few who could provide these details.

Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (CaJIi)

604 So, you are a wetsuit clad team swimming beside a pipeline to blow it up. You run into a second group of black clad, wetsuit wearing guys also carrying heavy explosives.

What do you do?

Seems like a scene out of Top Secret.
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:35 PM (zZu0s)

Thunderball...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at February 09, 2023 02:37 PM (CCSxw)

605 Weasel is a type of Commenting Weasel!

He's been here a long time.

Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:37 PM (s4qIM)

606 When is the last time Hersh was actually right about something? Vietnam? This story has one source. One. And Hersh has bordered on being a fabulist for at least two decades.

Please let’s not fall into the trap of all of a sudden trusting this doofus NOW because it suits our politics. It’s plausible, sure, but I don’t think Hersh’s price by itself is enough to be convincing. Sorry.
Posted by: SomeAsshole at February 09, 2023 02:28 PM (1q60j)

It isn't by itself. Most of the logic was apparent the instant the pipeline blew, and details have only supported it since. It is common supposition that we did it in the unaligned nations outside the West and has impacted diplomatic efforts. There have been several known attempts to blow the pipelines overland to Turkey and South Europe since, all failed.

Hersh's details might be right, or all crap. It doesn't change the bedrock information known since it happened at all.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:37 PM (eoQWY)

607 The don't care, but in the second incidence they both worked together at PSEG and the guy who was shot was supposedly a supervisior of the guy who shot him and the shooter had been fired.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 09, 2023 01:46 PM (D+F6R)

If you are seeking to assassinate somebody, or a group of somebody's, what better way to do it than recruit some rando who already has a grudge, real or imagined, against said somebody?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2023 02:37 PM (tkR6S)

608 603 I just wonder why 'the source' is feeling so open about things now. There have to be an easily-identified very few who could provide these details.
Posted by: t-bird at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (CaJIi)

Ron Klain wants to make Joe look Tuff on his way out.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (trdmm)

609 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?

During the Iraq war, not only did Iran arm jihadis fighting Americans, at one point they got their hands on Iraq Army uniforms and ambushed and killed an American squad.

Shrub choose not to respond and buried the story.

Why? Because he didn't want to have to respond - the dems had just taken congress and would have impeached him if he did anything meaningful in response.

Putin doesn't have to worry about being impeached, but if he formally responds by destroying American economic resources he'll just give Biden the excuse he needs to formally have the US enter the war.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (lc5cP)

610
He's been here a long time.
Posted by: garrett at February 09, 2023 02:37 PM (s4qIM)

And gives long range shooting instruction at the TxMoMe.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (Zz0t1)

611 Nood.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (zZu0s)

612
Doing your best Elvis impression?
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (Zz0t1)
----
Nah, doing my Russia impression!

Posted by: Weasel at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (WoIMU)

613 "Why would Russia blow up their own pipeline?!?"
To cripple German industry and freeze its people.

They

had

the

spigot

you

window-licking

spaz.
Posted by: BourbonChicken

They turn off the dpigot and 100,000 Germans freeze to death, that could be considered "crimes against humanity".

If their pipeline is blown up by unknown actors, they are the victim. And fuck the Germans. Rus still remembers Stalingrad.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:38 PM (GnNvu)

614 at least Banana Republics have warm winters.
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (trdmm)

That reminds me, i need a new coat.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 09, 2023 02:39 PM (9UlRk)

615 Russia wouldn't blow off their nose in spite of their face

Posted by: Skip at February 09, 2023 02:39 PM (xhxe8)

616 But the Swedes have apparently found explosive residue at the blast sites, which would appear to suggest it wasn't an accident. And I'm pretty confident that the Russians wouldn't have willingly blown it up (for one thing, it was ridiculously expensive to lay the thing down). So...
Posted by: junior at February 09, 2023 02:32 PM (PTw5h)

==========

Have we ruled out a wildly outrageous and hilarious insurance fraud scheme?
==
Nope. See me at 558. It is barely within the realm of conceptual possibility that the Russians built it, realized it wasn't going to work, and needed a way to save face, and or recoup costs. Its ridiculous tho. it was working before he shut it off. And 'insurance" isn't going to cover an act of war anyway.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:39 PM (OPgQe)

617 So, I'm supposed to believe that the US, using divers operating from a Norwegian minesweeper (and getting the permission to do so), planted explosives 3 months beforehand and then detonated them, inexplicably, from a Norwegian aircraft by dropping a specially adapted sonar buoy that only managed to trigger these bombs several hours apart.

I'm sorry, but too much of this is pure assertion without any evidence and to me it seems like Hirsch is trying to fill holes in his own story. There are easier ways to do it and it just doesn't ring true or even plausible.
I have no idea if the pipeline was sabotaged or not, personally I lean towards it being an accident caused by poor Russian maintenance and this folktale doesn't change that.

Posted by: stv at February 09, 2023 02:39 PM (FOTzD)

618 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (trdmm)

I guess you haven't been paying attention to anything since then.

Posted by: Oldcat at February 09, 2023 02:39 PM (eoQWY)

619 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (trdmm)

Russia doesn't want WWIII. WWI and WWII make too many people think that every war is a battle for existence. Russia simply wants to annex the ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine, Ukraine to at least be neutral, and unfettered access to Crimea. In other words, it is the typical mode of wars. They have limited objectives and goals.

Posted by: Crom Laughs at February 09, 2023 02:40 PM (I76dP)

620 In tandem, the much smaller story of the weather balloon as claimed by one of Jimmy Dore's recent show's You're Being Lied To About The Chinese "Spy" Balloon

In so many words (and jokes) he states that all of it always goes down to the $'s for the military complex. And that they just create a chain of events to keep feeding the mammoth military complex. He asks, what do we still build in the US? Weapons. Who has to buy them per NATO agreement? Member states - he says are supposed to buy 2%. Etc. Each and every act is put the fear of God in us, while feeding at the military complex trough (per our tax dollars).

Posted by: artisanal ette at February 09, 2023 02:40 PM (9qHsE)

621 Alien rapebots tried to get a valve job but forgot that on earth it's " righty tighty "...
Posted by: Hunter Bidet, Running Down Jill's Inner Thigh at February 09, 2023 02:29 PM (rbv8d)

If I know anything about aliens, and I don't, it's that they're all about the scientific method.

So why would they only select toothless idiots, and women with borderline personality disorder to anally probe? You'd think they would want a wider variety of test subjects, so they could more generalize their data.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 09, 2023 02:40 PM (ZD1/Q)

622 They turn off the dpigot and 100,000 Germans freeze to death, that could be considered "crimes against humanity".

If their pipeline is blown up by unknown actors, they are the victim. And fuck the Germans. Rus still remembers Stalingrad.
Posted by: rickb223
===
They were so worried about world opinion that they decided not to invade Ukraine. I mean logically it would work, if you weren't dealing with Putin, who doesn't really give a shit. He doesn't. He cheated his balls off at his own Olympics. Does. Give. A. Single. Fuck.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:41 PM (qJg0O)

623 I still think the most plausible scenario is that the Ukes blew it up, and wanted to make it look like a US /NATO operation.

It is in their strategic interest to draw NATO and the US into the war, and no one else's.

Posted by: Zek at February 09, 2023 02:42 PM (5FPX4)

624 So what do you do when the Deep State declared war and forgot to tell anyone, maybe even Sundowner?

Posted by: Skip at February 09, 2023 02:42 PM (xhxe8)

625
The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?

-----

Because Putin doesn't want to retire to a dacha in the country like Khrushchev, just yet.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 09, 2023 02:43 PM (oINRc)

626 Sounds pretty IC.

Posted by: Axeman at February 09, 2023 02:36 PM (krQz2)

There was a movie called "Nick of Time" where the premise was some IC types kidnap some normie's daughter and tells him if he wants her to live he has to assassinate some politician the IC types want dead. So they give him a gun and point out the politician.

And since it is a hollywood movie he finds a way to beat them without killing the politician.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (lc5cP)

627 They were so worried about world opinion that they decided not to invade Ukraine. I mean logically it would work, if you weren't dealing with Putin, who doesn't really give a shit. He doesn't. He cheated his balls off at his own Olympics. Does. Give. A. Single. Fuck.
Posted by: Comedy Explainer

They have a semi plausible explanation for Ukraine. Trying to claim 1943 and killing Germans 80 years later is a little harder.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (GnNvu)

628 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?
==
Trump annihilated an entire battalion of russian irregulars with artillery. Not a peep from Putin.

Posted by: Comedy Explainer at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (5LHl+)

629 Lotta unfamiliar nicks on this thread.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (ZGrMX)

Rather than randomly casting aspersions on comments, you can copy paste someones hash and put site:acecomments.mu.nu in your search engine and actually see if they are new or not.

Posted by: Sjg at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (gDSJf)

630 There are no good guys in any of what's going on in that part of the world. And that includes the US.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:45 PM (BdMk6)

631 My only concern with this story is that Hersh is often wrong. He's sticking his neck out big time, but I'd really like some confirming evidence. I am unlikely to get it.
Posted by: Joe Mannix

That is what is bothering me as well. Hersh blows hot and cold with his stories over the years. In this case, lots of details and I can believe this admin. did this while others were warning against it. Also, statements on record made by Biden, Nuland, etc. adds to me believing this while remaining somewhat wary.

Posted by: Cheri at February 09, 2023 02:46 PM (oiNtH)

632 I can't picture Navy divers doing it. We would not want our fingerprints on it, and it's not like there aren't thousands of contractors out there with the necessary skills. That doesn't make any sense.

Divers work around oil rigs and pipelines all the time. Now that they're wasting money on offshore wind turbines, I'm sure there are divers at work there too.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at February 09, 2023 02:46 PM (7B5FA)

633 It's worth looking back at the 'conservative' commentators (mostly off this blog) who talked about how this was probably caused by 'poor Russian maintenance'. That excuse smelled then, and it really stinks now.

Yea, couldn't be that.

Posted by: Chernobyl at February 09, 2023 02:47 PM (sAmhv)

634 @632 "I can't picture Navy divers doing it. We would not want our fingerprints on it, and it's not like there aren't thousands of contractors out there with the necessary skills. That doesn't make any sense.

Divers work around oil rigs and pipelines all the time. Now that they're wasting money on offshore wind turbines, I'm sure there are divers at work there too."

I rate this as Extremely Persuasive.

Posted by: Zek at February 09, 2023 02:48 PM (5FPX4)

635 I still think the most plausible scenario is that the Ukes blew it up, and wanted to make it look like a US /NATO operation. It is in their strategic interest to draw NATO and the US into the war, and no one else's. Posted by: Zek at February 09, 2023 02:42 PM (5FPX4)

Cui bono, as they say?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at February 09, 2023 02:48 PM (7B5FA)

636 There was a movie called "Nick of Time" where the premise was some IC types kidnap some normie's daughter and tells him if he wants her to live he has to assassinate some politician the IC types want dead. So they give him a gun and point out the politician.

And since it is a hollywood movie he finds a way to beat them without killing the politician.
Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (lc5cP)

Well shit. You've ruined it now. I was going to watch it.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 09, 2023 02:48 PM (BdMk6)

637 Nah, Weasel's a long timer. I figure he got some really good moonshine or someone slipped some wacky tabacky into his cigars.

I was agreeing with Weasel, not saying he's a Moby.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 09, 2023 02:49 PM (ZGrMX)

638 Anyone not advocating for immediate, thermonuclear war with Russia is a Pootin Puppet!

Posted by: Zek at February 09, 2023 02:51 PM (5FPX4)

639 Setting aside the morality of the destruction of the pipeline, and the lying to the American people about it, there are two other things worth mentioning:

1. The White House clearly took the initiative in forcing this operation. It is difficult to say which is scarier, a senile fool like Joe Biden deciding this, or Biden having it pushed upon him by those who a clearly running the country!

2. Since the start of the Cold War 70-odd years ago, the Democrat Party has played a political game with potentially deadly consequences: only they would allow America to mount a robust defense.

If action was needed, but they were not in power, they would hamstring the Republican President, aggrandizing themselves as forces for peace. If they were in power, they would do whatever they wanted, and pose as America's defenders. Thus they subtly trained Americans to regard them as the party of security, and Republicans as risky.

Democrat power has always been their #1 priority, and they would happily risk our security in order to prevent their political opponents from being perceived as strong. This was their fundamental enabling justification for their treason against Trump!

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at February 09, 2023 02:51 PM (gMml8)

640
Well shit. You've ruined it now. I was going to watch it.

It wasn't a very good movie so...you are probably better off not watching.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 09, 2023 02:53 PM (lc5cP)

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Posted by: Kristina Jackson at February 09, 2023 02:54 PM (JDWa+)

642 Keep also in mind..taking out the Nordstream increases the viability of LNG exports/imports, One of the Hunter scams was him being in charge of a yuuuuge LNG refinery/facility operation in Louisiana, for a Chinese company. A $12Billion+ project with Hunter etal retaining nearly 50% ownership.

Posted by: birddog at February 09, 2023 02:54 PM (uAI4S)

643 Rather than randomly casting aspersions on comments, you can copy paste someones hash and put site:acecomments.mu.nu in your search engine and actually see if they are new or not.
Posted by: Sjg at February 09, 2023 02:44 PM (gDSJf)

Or we can scream "Glowie!" instead.
I think that is why Malor flounced.

Posted by: Kindltot at February 09, 2023 03:09 PM (xhaym)

644 The real question is why Russia did nothing about this, since I'm sure they know what happened. Are they really that incompetent? Why just let it happen and blow it off?
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 09, 2023 02:34 PM (trdmm)

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 09, 2023 03:21 PM (tkR6S)

645 he pointed out how insultingly stupid was the cover story that Russia blew up their own billion dollar pipelines just to show how evil and psycho they are.

Joe Biden's next inspired move- Nuke the moon!
He plagiarizes everything.

Posted by: Better Late Posted Than Never at February 09, 2023 03:25 PM (SmFPm)

646 I'm way late.
So an act of war.
What did the Russians do to deserve this?

Posted by: Diogenes at February 09, 2023 03:29 PM (anj39)

647 It was ok to split up Serbia.

So, dividing the Ukraine is ok.

Posted by: Goatweed at February 09, 2023 03:33 PM (0Q/6W)

648 Jake Sullivan, who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is, belongs in Gen Pop, where i'm sure he would be very popular.

Posted by: Luke Duke at February 09, 2023 03:37 PM (rkGoe)

649 I can't believe people are falling for this. Hersh is a liar and a fabulist and hasn't written a truthful thing since Vietnam. He lied about the US "torturing" people at Abu Ghraib and also spun a fantastical fairy tale about how the raid to kill Bin Laden in Pakistan was staged. This NY Mag article from 2005 is a good example of how loose Hersh is with the truth: https://archive.is/Zbz0c

When I was a college student, I used one of his books extensively for a major term paper in my senior year that I was pretty proud of, got a lot of back slapping from my professors for it. Later on in my life, I found out that most of what he'd put in the book was false and felt ashamed of myself. As soon as saw Hersh's name on the byline, I was 99% certain this report was false.

Without substantial secondary confirmation, don't believe any of this. Don't buy into things just because they "sound truthy."

Posted by: Doomberg at February 09, 2023 04:18 PM (DwtjC)

650 Ran this by my brother -- former USMC, career diver. He calls bullshit. Details don't add up re: using trimix and C4, and the "secret training facility" has been known since the 70s. The admin may have done it, but the story's specific details are questionable.

Posted by: Rosa Erik at February 09, 2023 04:25 PM (2hJEH)

651 If the Biden family benefitted in some way from blowing it up, then I'd guess we blew it up. They don't do anything that doesn't cause money to flow into the family bank accounts.

Posted by: Syracuse1989 at February 09, 2023 04:26 PM (exm8+)

652 I don't buy it. Hersh has lied far too often to be trusted here.

I think it's entirely possible that Biden did order the pipeline destroyed - after all, first lifting sanctions on the pipeline, then blowing it up is exactly what a fool like Biden would do - but unless and until there's solid evidence of his having done it, I have to say that I simply don't know. And "anonymous sources" via a known liar doesn't cut it.

Posted by: Nemo at February 09, 2023 04:27 PM (S6ArX)

653 So should we just shrug it off when a pipeline explodes in Alaska? What a mess....

Posted by: Garyfl at February 09, 2023 04:40 PM (xhiNd)

654 And this is another example of why we are not supposed to have a standing army. (Even though this was the Navy, which IS authorized to be "standing".) There's a huge temptation to do this kind of crap when you have a pretty effective (for now) force to do it.

Also, I don't believe anything coming from "anonymous sources" anymore. Not until evidence actually comes out.

On the gripping hand, Biden actually is stupid enough to do this, and the 0bama/Biden powers in the US military are stupid enough to follow along. (Pretty sure an order to commit an act of war without Congressional authorization would constitute an "illegal order.")

Posted by: GWB at February 09, 2023 05:39 PM (PkFyV)

655 I dunno Hersh has always been a conduit for whatever the deep stare wants blather about. Did the US bomb Nordstream. Possibly? Why not the Ukranians or the Baltic states?
We won't know but the truth will come out decades later

Posted by: Xavier Basora at February 09, 2023 09:31 PM (HZCl6)

656 You mean the Pravda reporter Hersh?

Oh I believe him like I believe Brandon.

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Posted by: Emily at February 10, 2023 09:51 AM (1WEOE)

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Posted by: hosts at February 17, 2023 06:41 PM (7j8Y9)

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