WHEN in the course of human events things get really personal

Winter sunset, Great Salt Lake

You may have already read that Gerard Van der Leun died yesterday. The search engine shows the entry for his American Digest blog with "WHEN in the course of human events it becomes . . ."

He had a broad array of interests, but among them, American freedom and liberty, along with distinctive elements of the American experience, were common themes in his blog entries. Today, the focus there is more personal.

We learned of his passing from another blogger, Neo, whose site gets linked here a lot, The New Neo. We learned just a few days ago that Gerard and Neo had been a couple for a long time:

I know that most of you have gotten the news that Gerard Vanderleun is in hospice care now. It is inexpressibly sad.
I've been wrestling with this for a while. And by "this" I mean: how to say what I'm about to say. Anyone who reads this blog knows I'm a very private person and don't go in for much disclosure, dramatic or otherwise. But I'm about to write something very personal because detachment doesn't work right now.
And it's something Gerard wanted me to write, too, and so I'm doing this at least in part for him as well.
Gerard and I met through our blogging nearly eighteen years ago, became a couple about a year later and stayed that way for many years, and for the past ten or so years have been extremely close friends. We never lived together but would visit each other for lengthy periods, travel together, and have talked on the phone almost every day for most of the time we've been apart. He deferred to my need for privacy by not writing about our relationship, although I appear in some of his writings as the mysterious woman who was there for this or that occasion.

I think it worked out well that they kept their relationship out of their respective blogs. But her description highlights the fact that, though most people would consider him to be very masculine, he was generally very open about his feelings in his writing.

On a personal note for me, her revelation means that they had a relationship at the time he lost his home in Paradise, California to the Camp Fire in 2018. We got smoke from that fire, and we heard and read about a lot of people who lost more than he did in the fire. It's kind of a comfort to learn now that they had a relationship, even though he had family in the area. And he still had his car, laptop and kitten.

Others lost much more. There were other fires that year, too. The whole Valley was full of anxiety. Some people and institutions coped, and helped, better than others. Still, Gerard went through a lot during this time period.

He moved into his mother's apartment in Chico. She was 104 years old. He wrote about taking her to Thanksgiving dinner at his brother's house not long after the fire:

Of late my mother has become a fan of the diva, Sarah Brightman, and one of her CDs is playing as we make the final turn towards my brother's place and, of course, Brightman's version of "Dust in the Wind" plays its four minutes when we are five minutes away. My mother listens thoughtfully and says nothing. I'm finding it difficult to see clearly. And then we are there.

After two sets of Grace for this family's deliverances this year, the turkey and side dishes are heaped and reheaped on the plates. Then it is desert and some football during digestion. I walk outside with a glass full of the local Placerville wine to a little patch of needles and leaves under the pines, now soaked with rain and hence, for now, less lethal.
I raise my glass to the four points of the compass and say a prayer for all those whose ashes are being washed clean and downstream by the rains in Paradise. Then I pour out my small libation to the dead. Then I drive down out of the mountains with my mother beside me through the most beautiful Sierra autumn sunset I can remember. By the time we get back to the Burned Zone, it's dusk and we can't see the gathering darkness.

* * * * *

If you would like to look around American Digest a little more today, the following showed up on the search engine and in the back pages for me:

Poem with an ironic meme that you can find yourself on the site:

Who Am I?
BY CARL SANDBURG

My head knocks against the stars.
My feet are on the hilltops.
My finger-tips are in the valleys and shores of universal life.
Down in the sounding foam of primal things I reach my hands and play with pebbles of destiny.
I have been to hell and back many times.
I know all about heaven, for I have talked with God.
I dabble in the blood and guts of the terrible.
I know the passionate seizure of beauty
And the marvelous rebellion of man at all signs reading "Keep Off."

My name is Truth and I am the most elusive captive in the universe.

The Centenarian: Arthur Warner McNair

This is a story about Gerard's visit with his mother to see his uncle on the latter's 100th birthday. Features remarkable examples of community cohesion, plus a new way to think about dementia.

There are some signs in this piece that Gerard was once a pro in the dead tree publishing business.

Monkey in a Box: Best long read of the year so far

This is a family story by another writer, chosen late last year by Gerard. Never embarrass your mother during her bridge party.

* * * * *

This has to be terribly difficult for Neo. From the announcement at her own site yesterday:

Gerard died peacefully in the small hours of the morning.
He left instructions to me for two last posts of his that he wanted me to publish on his blog. I will probably do that tomorrow. I also will be cross-posting a few more essays of my own about Gerard, but I will keep his two last posts pinned at the top of the page there. Therefore you'll need to scroll down past them to get to any new ones.
Thank you for all the loving and beautiful words expressing loving and beautiful thoughts for Gerard and for me.

You might want to drop her a line.

From the comments, a link to a memorial piece Gerard wrote for his brother. It includes descriptions of adventures for kids in gold country in California:

Once we were seated in the principal's office ringed by every authority figure short of the National Guard our interrogation commenced. The questioning could be boiled down into:
"Just where is the other half?"
and
"Is there any more and will you show us where right now this instant?"
This was the shortest interrogation record since we instantly confessed every detail of our crimes and misdemeanors, the location of "X," an estimate of the quantity of dynamite left at the site, and "We'll lead you there right now if you let us live!"
Within an hour we were back at the lava flow where we pointed out the box of TNT and the locations of where we'd thrown the sticks. At one point, hoping to get a reduced sentence, I told the Sherriff, it was okay to play with them since they were all damp. As a very young idiot, I knew nothing about old dynamite weeping pure nitroglycerine into the container it is stored in. I'm pretty sure the Sheriff and his men did since we were no longer needed at the site for the cleanup. So my brother and I slunk home with our parents to prepare for THE. END.

But of course, it wasn't the end. I imagine that our parents were so numbed by their sons' stupidity and grateful they weren't scraping said sons off the jagged black face of the lava flow that they could not find room for anger. Instead, we were forced to take, after cake, a solemn oath that we would never, ever again go to the place called "X."
And we so swore my brother and me. And we were so relieved that we weren't punished that we really meant it. And we never did go back to "X."
For at least a month. . .

Gerard chose a song to go with the story:

* * * * *

"WHEN in the course of human events it becomes . . .

I ran across a quote from the late Roger Scruton that summarizes much of the craziness we are seeing in the country right now. Interesting that he specifies "revolutionary government." I don't think it quite fits the American Revolution. Thoughts?

Revolutionary government inevitably moves in a totalitarian direction, absorbing subsidiary social powers, and conscripting the population to its ill-considered purposes. Moreover, because the goal is always receding, the regime must manufacture a conspiracy of enemies"
To maintain the state of emergency, a spectacle must be provided: show-trials, executions, dawn arrests and denunciations; propaganda, ceremonies, military parades; and of course the threat, constantly made and often executed, of internal and external war.

This quote invites careful reading, I think. Roger Scruton died in January of 2020. I can think of lots of examples of the phenomena he described here which have taken place since then. Can you?

* * * * *

Music

Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring

* * * * *

Hope you have something nice planned for this weekend.

This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.

Serving your mid-day open thread needs

* * * * *

Last week's thread, January 21, How much should we be focusing on the almost extraterrestrial meetings in Davos?

Comments are closed so you won't ban yourself by trying to comment on a week-old thread. But don't try it anyway.

Last comment from last week, from Gentlemen, this is junta manifest:

I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Sunrise, Central California

Posted by: K.T. at 11:10 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning KT

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:11 AM (xhxe8)

2 Hola

Posted by: Indignacio Vindacatorem at January 28, 2023 11:12 AM (cTA10)

3 Good morning!

Posted by: KT at January 28, 2023 11:13 AM (rrtZS)

4 I really don't know Gerard, but saw at NewNeo she visited him a couple days ago and might have more on his work soon

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:14 AM (xhxe8)

5 That Paradise fire was the stuff of nightmares.
People were incinerated in their cars while fleeing. The smoke choked us here, while hundreds of miles away.

Posted by: homo erectus 004 at January 28, 2023 11:16 AM (jTmQV)

6 My wife has a few CD's of Sarah Brightman, heard 1 this morning.
On my phone, hard to read content a paragraph at a time

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:17 AM (xhxe8)

7 Off, anthropological sock...

Posted by: gourmand du jour at January 28, 2023 11:17 AM (jTmQV)

8 Revolutionary government inevitably moves in a totalitarian direction, absorbing subsidiary social powers, and conscripting the population to its ill-considered purposes. Moreover, because the goal is always receding, the regime must manufacture a conspiracy of enemies"

To maintain the state of emergency, a spectacle must be provided: show-trials, executions, dawn arrests and denunciations; propaganda, ceremonies, military parades; and of course the threat, constantly made and often executed, of internal and external war....

I can think of lots of examples of the phenomena he described here which have taken place since then. Can you?

1) Xi threatening Taiwan
2) Putin invading Ukraine
3) January 6.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 28, 2023 11:18 AM (eOEVl)

9 You just have to believe there's gonna be a great gettin' up mornin'.

Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 11:23 AM (1vBNQ)

10 He was a kind, interesting man. I was always surprised to see one of my old comments when he reran a post.

When there was a member of the Horde struggling with his girlfriend's desire to have an abortion, I posted a link for him on Gerard's thoughts. And I let Gerard know. He did read the comments here from time to time, and sent me an email with the hope she would change her mind. Prayers sent out for someone he didn't know and would never meet.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 11:24 AM (4IUUf)

11 Sometimes I miss most of the earlier thread on Saturdays, which is more free form than this.

Death is on my mind quite a bit lately. Grief and loss, and how humans continue afterwards. Obviously it comes in many forms. Maybe there's a point in this life when one transitions from shying away from it, being scared of it, doing everything to avoid it, to a point where one is less... not less, more welcoming of it. Not to say wishing and hoping for it, but recognizing it's got a place in one's life, and is coming. And not being so opposed to it.

I believe I am going through this transition.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:25 AM (QBaJw)

12 I never got to play with dynamite when I was a kid
It's not fair

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:26 AM (xhxe8)

13 First 50!

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:27 AM (Emce2)

14 Posted by: Archimedes

They keep them going don't they:
x) Show trials
x1) Dawn raids
x2) External war
x3) Internal threats
x4) Protected anarchy

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:27 AM (/YFXY)

15 First 50!
Posted by: Emmie

Emmie wants to rule!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:29 AM (/YFXY)

16 Today I will be at the memorial service for my best friend's father, who passed New Year's Day. It seems the season for such things lately.

Prayers for all, no matter what.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez at January 28, 2023 11:29 AM (EsEFH)

17 I never got to play with dynamite when I was a kid
It's not fair

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:26 AM (xhxe

In my early teens in NJ, blasting caps were a "thing".

Posted by: BignJames at January 28, 2023 11:30 AM (AwYPR)

18 Emmie wants to rule!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:29 AM (/YFXY)

Yes, I lust for all the power! So I can ruthlessly leave everyone alone!

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:32 AM (Emce2)

19 I thought that this was an amazing story when it came out.

Ex-NFLer Derek Wolfe kills massive mountain lion terrorizing area

https://bit.ly/3Rcz3Z8

He had been recruited to kill the lion after it had killed dogs in the area and he did it with a bow.

Now.

Super Bowl Champion Derek Wolfe Reveals Threats From Radical Animal Rights Activists After Killing Mountain Lion

https://bit.ly/3Y7lbBx

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 11:32 AM (FVME7)

20 Super Bowl Champion Derek Wolfe Reveals Threats From Radical Animal Rights Activists After Killing Mountain Lion

https://bit.ly/3Y7lbBx
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 11:32 AM (FVME7)

—————-

After seeing the size of that mountain lion he killed with a bow, my money is on Derek.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 11:34 AM (u73oe)

21 Maybe there's a point in this life when one transitions from shying away from it, being scared of it, doing everything to avoid it, to a point where one is less... not less, more welcoming of it. Not to say wishing and hoping for it, but recognizing it's got a place in one's life, and is coming. And not being so opposed to it.

I believe I am going through this transition.
Posted by: BurtTC

You aren't alone Brother.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:35 AM (qoGsy)

22 I believe I am going through this transition.
Posted by: BurtTC

You aren't alone Brother.
Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:35 AM (qoGsy)

A well-worn path. Unique to us who are discovering it, but one taken by many many before us, those cursed and fortunate to have the time to contemplate such things.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (QBaJw)

23 My name is Truth and I am the most elusive captive in the universe.

“Truth is a precious resource. Conserve it.”—Robert Trevor, The Dream of Poor Bazin

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (EXyHK)

24 "I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle."

The distressing rhetorical question is "Aren't we already?"

Posted by: RobertM at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (+/lOf)

25 Tired of the Ginger v Mary Ann debates? I offer a reprise of Wilma v Betty (via Powerline)

https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2023/01/IMG_2519.jpg

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (fs1hN)

26 Yes, I lust for all the power! So I can ruthlessly leave everyone alone!
Posted by: Emmie

* swoons *

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (fs1hN)

27 Casks of gunpowder, dynamite sticks, blasting caps, M-80s, cherry bombs - these were the things I heard (and saw in cartoons) so much about as a yute but never once saw in real life.

Getting a pack of Black Cat firecrackers was as outlaw as we got.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (4I/2K)

28 To maintain the state of emergency, a spectacle must be provided: show-trials, executions, dawn arrests and denunciations; propaganda, ceremonies, military parades; and of course the threat, constantly made and often executed, of internal and external war....

I've said if forever - the absolute worst thing that ever happened to the American Empire was the fall of the Soviet Union.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (U93OM)

29 25 Tired of the Ginger v Mary Ann debates? I offer a reprise of Wilma v Betty (via Powerline)

https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2023/01/IMG_2519.jpg

"Charge it!"

Posted by: Fox2! at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (RK6SY)

30 Yes, I lust for all the power! So I can ruthlessly leave everyone alone!
Posted by: Emmie

* swoons *
Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (fs1hN)

How much power and effort does it take to force everyone else to leave everyone else alone too.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:42 AM (QBaJw)

31 Emmie wants to rule!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:29 AM (/YFXY)

Yes, I lust for all the power! So I can ruthlessly leave everyone alone!
Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:32 AM (Emce2)

That's NOT how you HOA!

Posted by: HOA Presidents Guild at January 28, 2023 11:43 AM (4I/2K)

32 How much power and effort does it take to force everyone else to leave everyone else alone too.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:42 AM (QBaJw)

An entire evening was dedicated to this topic yesterday.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:45 AM (U93OM)

33 Casks of gunpowder, dynamite sticks, blasting caps, M-80s, cherry bombs - these were the things I heard (and saw in cartoons) so much about as a yute but never once saw in real life.

Getting a pack of Black Cat firecrackers was as outlaw as we got.
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 28, 2023 11:41 AM (4I/2K)

Do you remember public service announcements on teevee, telling kids who are playing at construction sites, not to try to pick up blasting caps?

As a yoot, I was thinking "who are these irresponsible construction workers leaving explosives laying around where kids can find them?"

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:45 AM (QBaJw)

34 God bless the horde, one and all.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at January 28, 2023 11:45 AM (6BHDZ)

35 Gabriella Hoffman: An Inconvenient Truth for Environmentalists: Offshore Wind Endangers Whales

-
Well, the oceans are already boiling.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 11:46 AM (FVME7)

36 How much power and effort does it take to force everyone else to leave everyone else alone too.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:42 AM (QBaJw)

This. Because the busybodies will always require management.

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:46 AM (Emce2)

37 Gabriella Hoffman: An Inconvenient Truth for Environmentalists: Offshore Wind Endangers Whales

If Wind Power ever becomes economical - the opposition to it, because it negatively impacts the natural weather cycles of the planet, will begin about five minutes later.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:47 AM (U93OM)

38 Yes, I lust for all the power! So I can ruthlessly leave everyone alone!
Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:32 AM (Emce2)

That's NOT how you HOA!
Posted by: HOA Presidents Guild at January 28, 2023 11:43 AM (4I/2K)

The house I still own elsewhere, I read the HOA agreement, and thought "you people are fascist monsters," but then quickly realize the agreement was written some 30 years ago, and whoever wrote it is dead, and the people currently "in charge" couldn't give a rat's arse what other homeowners are doing.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:47 AM (QBaJw)

39 How much power and effort does it take to force everyone else to leave everyone else alone too.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:42 AM (QBaJw)

This. Because the busybodies will always require management.
Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 11:46 AM (Emce2)

Well, stepping away from the HOA types, and back toward those who would rule from capitols, this is why we do need to occasionally build scaffolds and/or line up rows and rows of sharpened pikes.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:49 AM (QBaJw)

40 Tired of the Ginger v Mary Ann debates? I offer a reprise of Wilma v Betty (via Powerline)
https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2023/01/IMG_2519.jpg
Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (fs1hN)

And here I was waiting for the incandescent "Is a Blintz a Burrito" debate

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 11:50 AM (xhaym)

41 This week in Italy 1944, from Dad's diary

Jan 27
Bright clear day. Little change in front lines. 34 Div still trying to break through N of Cassino. 36 Div holding on east side of Rapido. Little news from VI Corps. Seem to be doing O.K.
We had quite a number of observed missions (trucks, guns & personnel).

Jan 28
Very quiet. Warmer and clear.
Troops are being constantly pulled from this sector and moved up to VI Corps. Very little word from there, but it is apparent that sector is to be the main effort. We have only two divisions on the front - both weak. 10 Corps has one Bn holding a division sector.

I think next week his unit makes the jump over to Anzio.

Posted by: Muldoon at January 28, 2023 11:50 AM (ykeLU)

42 How much power and effort does it take to force everyone else to leave everyone else alone too.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:42 AM (QBaJw)

What price An-Cap-istan?

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 11:50 AM (xhaym)

43 So that settles it!

@EpochTimes 14m
“Pfizer has not conducted gain of function or directed evolution research,” @Pfizer said.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 28, 2023 11:51 AM (XF9Gj)

44 My personal opinion, if we wanna go down this road, Booth wasn't completely wrong, it's just that Lincoln was never quite the tyrant he (and others) made him out to be, and in fact, made the post-war period profoundly worse by eliminating the one guy who could have directed the process with wisdom, grace, and humility.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:51 AM (QBaJw)

45 That's ultimately what the entire COVID overreaction was all about: the most sacred of our American liberties: the right to be left the hell alone.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 28, 2023 11:52 AM (DhOHl)

46 So that settles it!

@EpochTimes 14m
“Pfizer has not conducted gain of function or directed evolution research,” @Pfizer said.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 28, 2023 11:51 AM (XF9Gj)

This just in:

Himmler sez "No, the camps are just happy fun places where everyone goes and plays volleyball and Mahjong."

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:53 AM (QBaJw)

47 So that settles it!

@EpochTimes 14m
“Pfizer has not conducted gain of function or directed evolution research,” @Pfizer said.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 28, 2023 11:51 AM (XF9Gj)

Well Pfizer is pretty much just a marketing business that subcontracts everything out to subsidiary labs.

Do their subsidiary labs do this bioweapons research? I am guessing they do.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 11:54 AM (xhaym)

48 That's ultimately what the entire COVID overreaction was all about: the most sacred of our American liberties: the right to be left the hell alone.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 28, 2023 11:52 AM (DhOHl)

The Branch Covidians were simply acting upon their own Objective Morality - so it's OK. I learned that yesterday. For them to do anything else, to simply live and let live, would have been foolish.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:54 AM (U93OM)

49 @EpochTimes 14m
“Pfizer has not conducted gain of function or directed evolution research,” @Pfizer said.
Posted by: weft cut-loop

"We hired others to do it under their name for us."

Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:54 AM (qoGsy)

50 As a yoot, I was thinking "who are these irresponsible construction workers leaving explosives laying around where kids can find them?"
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:45 AM (QBaJw)

Living inside the Capital Beltway in sunny southern Maryland, I now realize I should have directed my suburban bicycle ramblings to the Metro subway construction sites to pick up these fun items that apparently were just strewn about.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 28, 2023 11:55 AM (4I/2K)

51 The excuse given by those justifying the riots I'm Memphis and elsewhere is that, while all the officers were black, the deadly beating is an expression of white supremacy. I'm curious if these people would prefer to be arrested by the non-white supremacist police forces of China, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Azerbaijan, Iran, Mexico, Venezuela, etc.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 11:56 AM (fs1hN)

52 Can't find the post on her site, but Cat Bordhi had this wonderful attitude about her terminal cancer diagnosis. It was basically "well, I am going to die. That's part of life after all. I can't wait to see what comes next". And it is true. It happens to us all. And it should make us kinder towards those in our lives, but often doesn't.

There is a blessing, "May the Lord God grant us a restful night and a peaceful death." And I think of my 87 year old friend, dying in her chair with a smile on her face and thinking a peaceful death really is a blessing.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 11:56 AM (4IUUf)

53 Gabriella Hoffman: An Inconvenient Truth for Environmentalists: Offshore Wind Endangers Whales

If Wind Power ever becomes economical - the opposition to it, because it negatively impacts the natural weather cycles of the planet, will begin about five minutes later.
Posted by: I-IV-V

If the wingbeat of a butterfly can cause a tornado hundreds of miles away, just think what effect a large windmill has!! Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:56 AM (qoGsy)

54 "Directed evolution" is a deeply creepy phrase and so appropriate for Pfizer whose CEO pals around with the God wannabe malignant megalomaniacs at the WEF.

And I don't believe them.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 11:57 AM (D+F6R)

55 As a yoot, I was thinking "who are these irresponsible construction workers leaving explosives laying around where kids can find them?"
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:45 AM (QBaJw)

Living inside the Capital Beltway in sunny southern Maryland, I now realize I should have directed my suburban bicycle ramblings to the Metro subway construction sites to pick up these fun items that apparently were just strewn about.
Posted by: Count de Monet at January 28, 2023 11:55 AM (4I/2K)

I know, right? I've handled enough fireworks in my day to know the most important lesson is, handle the appropriately, and you have an exciting good time. Handle them poorly, and you lose fingers.

Just don't do with the fingerless boys in your neighborhood did.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (QBaJw)

56 I look forward to Paradise.

While this world has beautiful parts, it is not Heaven.

I am not going to hasten it, but I am not going to retard it either.

"Thy will be done."

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (TXFi7)

57 "What is truth?"
~ Pontius Pilate

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (DhOHl)

58 Muldoon don't read ahead, it will spoil the story

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (xhxe8)

59 Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:54 AM (U93OM)

You are confused, or dishonest, about the nature if Objective Morality. There is no "their" Objective Morality, or my Objective Reality, or your Objective Morality. Objective Morality, like Objective Reality, simply *is*. We can live our lives in agreement with it or choose not to. There are consequences either way.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (nC+QA)

60 God wannabe malignant megalomaniacs at the WEF.

And I don't believe them.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke

Should have used a small g and included the word pagan.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (6CAm7)

61 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.

Posted by: Marooned at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (w6hJ9)

62 If the wingbeat of a butterfly can cause a tornado hundreds of miles away, just think what effect a large windmill has!! Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:56 AM (qoGsy)

Consider this ... they, they environmentalists, used to criticize the use of oil as an energy source on the grounds that it is finite. Yet - all the rare earths needed for wind and solar are most definitely finite as well.

Not to mention the fact that we can now make a compelling case that oil may not be a finite resource at all - but rather a constant by-product of the extreme pressures and temperatures existing at the Earth's core. But by all means, lets make more solar panels.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:00 PM (U93OM)

63 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.
Posted by: Marooned

You should pray for them; but, if their goal is to murder you, you don't have to let them.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 12:01 PM (6CAm7)

64 Posted by: Marooned at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (w6hJ9)

I do pray for them-that they have a conversion experience to embrace the real Lord and give up their schemes and plans to control the world.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (D+F6R)

65 the Davos videos are re-assuring...that there is not one drop of empathy or human emotion...in any of them

Posted by: Qmark at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (ttO/Q)

66 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.
Posted by: Marooned

I'll pray they die in a fire. That's about as far as I'll go.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (U93OM)

67 There's a lot more oil than lithium.

Posted by: Just Sayin' at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (DhOHl)

68 Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 11:59 AM (6CAm7)

O.K.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (D+F6R)

69 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.
Posted by: Marooned

Ex Cathedral, etc, summa doctora, something something, ...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 28, 2023 12:03 PM (XF9Gj)

70 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.
Posted by: Marooned

It is the hardest tenet for me to do - Love your neighbor as yourself.

Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 12:03 PM (qoGsy)

71 There is a blessing, "May the Lord God grant us a restful night and a peaceful death." And I think of my 87 year old friend, dying in her chair with a smile on her face and thinking a peaceful death really is a blessing.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 11:56 AM (4IUUf)

Not the same, I know, but one of my cats died this week. She has been sickly for some time, but every time I took her to the vet and got a different diagnosis, and different, expensive meds, they helped for a little while, until they didn't.

This week, she was obviously not quite right, and was wandering around the house with a somewhat plaintive, quiet meow. She was on my bed, laying peacefully until it was time for me to go to bed, and I guess she didn't want to share the space with me. She jumped down, was heard wandering around for a bit, until she settled under my bed. The same plaintive, quiet meow...

TBC -

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:05 PM (QBaJw)

72 I got up to check on her, she was laying there, in no visible distress. I petted her for a bit, then went to the computer to check if there was a 24 hour vet hospital nearby. There is. I thought about taking her, but decided to go back to bed instead. Listening to her occasionally meow quietly.

Until she didn't. When I got up this time, she was gone. It was her time. She wasn't in pain, wasn't confused, wasn't desperately trying to be loved anymore.

She was and is loved, and I hope I gave her as good a life as I could.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (QBaJw)

73 Gerard was a special talent and a great man. He was generous and worked hard to help people as a more established, successful site. His writing was thoughtful, wise, and insightful. It is a tragedy and I feel like ACE last year when he yelled "EVERYBODY STOP DYING."

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (0hOvj)

74 There's a lot more oil than lithium.

Posted by: Just Sayin' at January 28, 2023 12:02 PM (DhOHl)

I made it through all of about three weeks of an "Environmental Science" class back in the day. I took it because it was supposedly an easy A - and I needed two more classes to sit for the PE Exam.

It really is amazing. I slogged through Thermodynamics back in the day. The "math" they teach this little minds of mush regarding supposed heat transfer between the sun and Earth is utter garbage. I couldn't do it. I could not make myself puke back to the professor complete fictional bullshit. Dropped the class.

Short story long, as only I can do it, is you are correct. There is indeed more oil than lithium. And there are a lot more basic, inconvenient little facts that today's young communist lemmings simply ignore as they babble incoherent nonsense. At least astrologists and Wiccans could be entertaining. This bunch is just a gaggle of New Age Puritan scolds.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (U93OM)

75 Cherry bombs in "cow pies"; and sling slotted over the top of the very small town I grew up in.

Posted by: Lotta nerve at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (JdcHc)

76 One person's view on praying for your enemies:

https://www.gotquestions.org/pray-for-your-enemies.html

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (D+F6R)

77 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.

They need Jesus and I want them to be saved, so that they can turn their influence, money, and personal charisma into the cause of goodness, not evil. I pray for them to be saved and to turn their lives around.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:10 PM (0hOvj)

78 If Wind Power ever becomes economical - the opposition to it, because it negatively impacts the natural weather cycles of the planet, will begin about five minutes later.
Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 11:47 AM (U93OM)

Yes, because it's not about protecting the environment or conserving resources. It's about restricting other people's freedom of movement, warmth, shelter, choices, and health.

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 12:10 PM (Emce2)

79 She was and is loved, and I hope I gave her as good a life as I could.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (QBaJw)

—————

You did.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:11 PM (u73oe)

80 Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:08 PM (QBaJw)

Sorry about your cat, Burt. If they're in pain we don't want them to suffer, but it is a member of one's family and so it can be so very hard when they die. I'm glad she seemed to go peacefully.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:12 PM (D+F6R)

81 Remember to not forget that we are instructed to pray for the WEF participants at Davos.
Posted by: Marooned

You should pray for them; but, if their goal is to murder you, you don't have to let them.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 12:01 PM (6CAm7)

Somewhat related, I do pray for my wife (we're close to the final divorce paperwork). I don't think she wants to murder me, but I'm not sure she doesn't.

I know how hard this life has been for her, and I will love her no matter what. She deserves prayer. We all do.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:12 PM (QBaJw)

82 Thanks for that, Fen.

Being a former soldier, destroying the enemy is much easier than forgiving them...but the Holy Spirit is working on me.
Not as fast as I'd like, but I'm kinda hard-headed.

Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:12 PM (xxfnZ)

83 Death has never scared me.

Living, otoh...

Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:13 PM (xxfnZ)

84 Sunrises in California must be colorful. I've been on the East Coast and on the water/ocean most of my life and the sun rises over the ocean so not so much dust and stuff.

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 12:13 PM (wsHtO)

85 Yes, because it's not about protecting the environment or conserving resources. It's about restricting other people's freedom of movement, warmth, shelter, choices, and health.

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 12:10 PM (Emce2)

You got it. If they really gave a shit about the earth, we'd all have little concrete-encased nuke reactors buried in our backyard - about as impactful on the environment as our septic tanks. Think of all the resources we'd save in transmissions lines and pole transformers and sub-stations.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:14 PM (U93OM)

86 You should pray for them; but, if their goal is to murder you, you don't have to let them.

Sure, its like forgiveness. You can forgive someone for mugging you, but you have to have the wisdom to not walk down a dark alley with them as well. Be gentle as doves and wise as serpents has real meaning: both loving and wise.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:15 PM (0hOvj)

87 Over 5,621 Christians Were Murdered for Following Jesus Last Year, Report

https://tinyurl.com/y8pyjjbt

Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:15 PM (KL6QW)

88 Not as fast as I'd like, but I'm kinda hard-headed.

We're almost all hard headed dear, and I think it's hard for most of us-me included. of course. The wonderful thing as we have given ourselves to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is always working within us to make us more like Christ.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:16 PM (D+F6R)

89 That's like my Pete cat, laying in front of the fridge on Christmas Day, finally dying when I came in and touched him.

We are all here for a purpose and will be here till our time is fulfilled.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 12:16 PM (4IUUf)

90 Over 5,621 Christians Were Murdered for Following Jesus Last Year, Report

Yeah, its one of those things that some people get really mad about but Christians are far more oppressed, abused, and attacked than Jews are these days. That doesn't mean Jews are not being oppressed, obviously they are. Just not as wide and numerous a scale.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:17 PM (0hOvj)

91 Yes, let’s build hundreds of windmills off the coast. I must admit, let’s save the planet by destroying the oceans is an interesting take.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:17 PM (u73oe)

92 75 Dad told me stories of putting carbide in a jar, putting it in a milk can with some water, and tossing it into an abandoned quarry. Boom.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 28, 2023 12:18 PM (lz5hY)

93 Yes, because it's not about protecting the environment or conserving resources. It's about restricting other people's freedom of movement, warmth, shelter, choices, and health.

Its properly called "decivilizing". India and China are going full speed ahead on their coal utilization for generating cheap, reliable power for homes, schools, hospitals and industry.

Preventing people from taking advantage of all of the technology that has moved civilization from short, miserable, subsistence lives to that of prosperity and all that wealth brings, is their main goal.

Pure evil - scheming to condemn billions of people to poverty, when it would be so simple to let the Unseen Hand work its wealth building magic.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at January 28, 2023 12:19 PM (l7lsb)

94
Then: Save the whales!

Now: Fuck the whales, pave the ocean floor!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:19 PM (u73oe)

95 hiya

Posted by: JT at January 28, 2023 12:19 PM (T4tVD)

96 Yes, let’s build hundreds of windmills off the coast. I must admit, let’s save the planet by destroying the oceans is an interesting take.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:17 PM (u73oe)

I've got a great idea. Let's extract hydrogen from water. It'll be green. At least until we run out of friggin' water. I'd like to say I can't believe they're going forward with this. But, of course, I can believe and they really are.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:20 PM (U93OM)

97 Happy birthday, JT!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:20 PM (u73oe)

98 Civilization for me but not for thee.

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 12:21 PM (wsHtO)

99 Weeping TNT? yeah damn lucky to live. Yikes.

Posted by: Anna Puma at January 28, 2023 12:21 PM (gPDe9)

100 Weeping TNT? yeah damn lucky to live. Yikes.
Posted by: Anna Puma at January 28, 2023 12:21 PM (gPDe9)

—————

I hate it when the TNT gets all maudlin.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:23 PM (u73oe)

101 Preventing people from taking advantage of all of the technology that has moved civilization from short, miserable, subsistence lives to that of prosperity and all that wealth brings, is their main goal.

The answer in this is to listen to what these WEF types say about themselves. They believe they are superior human beings. They believe they are better than the unwashed masses. They believe they are innately of more value. Literally they view themselves as a better human being.

For them, the idea of equality is abhorrent: how can you consider yourself equal to them? You didn't go to the right schools. You were not born to the right families. You were not part of the right organizations.

They are the new nobility and they want a new feudalism.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:24 PM (0hOvj)

102 Preventing people from taking advantage of all of the technology that has moved civilization from short, miserable, subsistence lives to that of prosperity and all that wealth brings, is their main goal.

That's really the thing to keep in mind. For most of them, it's not a matter of how many yachts they can accumulate to ski behind. They're perfectly happy with less yachts. But it chaps their ass to see you or me out there on our own deck boat.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:25 PM (U93OM)

103 Thanks for the post about Gerard! He was a top-notch blogger and a remarkable writer and person. What a life!

Posted by: DLSADA at January 28, 2023 12:26 PM (hUvRE)

104 Last week's thread, January 21, How much should we be focusing on the almost extraterrestrial meetings in Davos?

So on the one hand John Kerry is a pompous idiot and regularly says stupid things. On the other hand some people in the government have been trying to hint for a while that aliens are real - the FNM considered pushing this story line to get some bad Biden news off the front page but ultimately just let it dissipate.

I do wonder if this could be a "That Hideous Strength" situation. Basically in that story the government believed it had a conduit to a beneficial intelligence from beyond earth and decided to take its advice. That intelligence, of course, was from somewhere rather...hotter.

So could it be that our friends in the Deep State are getting messages from "helpful aliens" that are also actually from a hot place? It seems beyond ridiculous but every story from the government seems ridiculous now. Look at the demonic statue of RGB - how do you explain something like that outside of "influences" on our friends in the government?

Posted by: Alexander the Great at January 28, 2023 12:26 PM (lc5cP)

105 Thanks Duke !

Posted by: JT at January 28, 2023 12:26 PM (T4tVD)

106 Death has never scared me.

Living, otoh...
Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:13 PM (xxfnZ)[/i

I thought it was marsupials, 'cause they are fast[/b ]

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:26 PM (xhaym)

107

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:27 PM (xhaym)

108 Civilization for me but not for thee.

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 12:21 PM (wsHtO)

They are too foolish and arrogant to realize that civilization really is an "all in this together" thing. It takes tens of millions of people to run the infrastructure needed to make a comfortable life in just one continent. They have no conception of the complexity of the system needed to maintain their current lifestyle.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (nC+QA)

109 Pure evil - scheming to condemn billions of people to poverty, when it would be so simple to let the Unseen Hand work its wealth building magic.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at January 28, 2023 12:19 PM (l7lsb)

I never thought I'd see it play out in my lifetime. The planners are ascendant, and they have consolidated so much power and wealth already... it's hard to see how we stop them.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (QBaJw)

110 The answer in this is to listen to what these WEF types say about themselves. They believe they are superior human beings. They believe they are better than the unwashed masses.
--------
You know who else thought their fellow citizens were inferior beings?

Posted by: Chuck Martel at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (fs1hN)

111 For them, the idea of equality is abhorrent: how can you consider yourself equal to them? You didn't go to the right schools. You were not born to the right families. You were not part of the right organizations.

They are the new nobility and they want a new feudalism.

Before COVID there was constant stories in the travel media about how terrible it was that all the cool, hip travel locations were full of middle class Americans now that Trump was making them rich.

My favorite anecdote was some travel blogger whining that not only did he have to wait to get a table at his favorite restaurant in Europe he was behind a plumber...from Cleveland.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (lc5cP)

112 Whales have to get some skin in the game too to save the planet

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (xhxe8)

113 I wish you had mentioned Neo being female before the quoted piece. I read the entire thing assuming ...

Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at January 28, 2023 12:29 PM (1/Nwl)

114 The answer in this is to listen to what these WEF types say about themselves. They believe they are superior human beings. They believe they are better than the unwashed masses. They believe they are innately of more value. Literally they view themselves as a better human being.

This really does tie into yesterday's spat about Objective Morality. Because they also believe they've got the only correct interpretation of a superior moral code. That's the big problem - you could deal with them if they were just greedy, as C.S. Lewis pointed out decades ago. But they, just like others yesterday, feel in their gut that they are "right".

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:30 PM (U93OM)

115
Trump kicking off 2024 campaign today in New Hampshire. Will be covered live in a few minutes on NewsMax, smothered by the 'networks'.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at January 28, 2023 12:32 PM (enJYY)

116 I thought it was marsupials, 'cause they are fast..
Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:26 PM (xhaym)

I had such a bizarre dream last night. There were flying bugs, a couple that were HUGE. So in the process of killing them, first by throwing things at them, then by trying to crush them when they landed but would not die, by the time it got to the point of me finding a sledgehammer, and trying to crush their skulls, they had morphed into a being from another world. A mammal with huge tusks, the size of a large boar.

True story. Trying to crush their skulls with a sledgehammer only seems to make them angry.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:32 PM (QBaJw)

117 They're perfectly happy with less yachts. But it chaps their ass to see you or me out there on our own deck boat.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:25 PM (U93OM)

Much like how the USSR leadership's top guys really only had the equivalent lifestyle of a middle to upper-middle class US lifestyle. If that *isn't* what the WEF types are okay with, they're going to find out it's what they get anyway. Kick the middle out of a stack and the top falls too.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:33 PM (nC+QA)

118 The second most brutal place to be a Christian is the African nation of Somalia, a majority Muslim country where Christians are violently attacked.

The report notes that in Somalia, the "violent insurgent group al-Shabaab has repeatedly expressed its desire to eradicate Christians from the country," adding that Islamic militants have "intensified their hunt for people who are Christian and in a position of leadership."

Ilhan Omar is of Somali origin, I believe.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at January 28, 2023 12:33 PM (3J0De)

119 What's the birdbath status?

Posted by: Just Wondering at January 28, 2023 12:34 PM (DhOHl)

120 True story. Trying to crush their skulls with a sledgehammer only seems to make them angry.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:32 PM (QBaJw)

I have dreams about sitting in parked cars, or getting handfuls of corroded coins.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:34 PM (xhaym)

121 You can tell what these elite think of themselves, they let the disguise slip every so often, like John Kerry literally saying he is a superior human being. The sneering, snide contempt they show when the mask slips is obvious.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:34 PM (0hOvj)

122 The Somalias were mostly slavers historically.

I suspect when the "far right wing Christians" in Britain and France ended the slave trade it hit them hard.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 12:34 PM (lc5cP)

123 I wish you had mentioned Neo being female before the quoted piece. I read the entire thing assuming ...
Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at January 28, 2023 12:29 PM (1/Nwl)

Same. And then questioning why they had to keep their relationship secret. It's none of my business of course, but that's what I was thinking.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:35 PM (QBaJw)

124 I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Do you really want to be ruled by Sponge?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 28, 2023 12:36 PM (XIJ/X)

125 Now with SDB, looking up.

Posted by: rold at January 28, 2023 12:37 PM (cPeLk)

126 I never thought I'd see it play out in my lifetime. The planners are ascendant, and they have consolidated so much power and wealth already... it's hard to see how we stop them.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:28 PM (QBaJw)

Burt, allow me to give you some optimism from the last place you'd ever think to look ... me !!! We don't have to "stop" them. All we have to do is quit carrying them.

I would lose sleep if I thought the elites could keep this up. But they can't. This entire system will fall, because of their own incompetence, and yes - we'll fall with it. But I'm OK with that. Mostly because the fall will hurt them so much more than me. And I'm willing to hurt a little - just to get to enjoy watching them hurt a lot.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:37 PM (U93OM)

127 Sunrises in California must be colorful. I've been on the East Coast and on the water/ocean most of my life and the sun rises over the ocean so not so much dust and stuff.
Posted by: pawn

It's always a mountain sunrise, and the color depends on the amount of shit in the air. Looking at you Colton, CA.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 28, 2023 12:37 PM (XF9Gj)

128 I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Do you really want to be ruled by Sponge?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Why not?
He does seem to think he comes in FIRST all the time.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 12:37 PM (6CAm7)

129 113 I wish you had mentioned Neo being female before the quoted piece. I read the entire thing assuming ...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Obligatory Seinfeld reference at January 28, 2023 12:38 PM (DhOHl)

130 I wish you had mentioned Neo being female before the quoted piece. I read the entire thing assuming ...

Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at January 28, 2023 12:29 PM (1/Nwl)

Probably didn't think about some people never having read Neo's blog. If you've read it at all you know she's female, so it's easy to forget not everyone knows that.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:38 PM (nC+QA)

131 Do you really want to be ruled by Sponge?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 28, 2023 12:36 PM (XIJ/X)

Sponges don't rule well. They suck up all the ink so it is hard to draw straight lines with them.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (xhaym)

132 Because they also believe they've got the only correct interpretation of a superior moral code

The big difference being that they do not hold their moral code to be objective and absolute. They expressly state that their code is what they believe and it changes constantly.

I don't bring this up to be argumentative, but to point to the fact that you cannot build civilization on this kind of structure. If your moral code changes almost daily and is based merely on the whims of a person or small group of people, then the people living in this civilization have no idea what tomorrow brings or what rules they have to follow. There's nothing to build on, its like ever-shifting sand.

And that's the problem we face. Moral structures change over time from one to another. Religions are deposed and new ones take over. That's the pattern of history. What is key is how valid a religion is and how well it can sustain civilization. The Judeo Christian worldview was an iron clad, absolute, rock solid, trustworthy structure to build around. Secular humanism is absolutely not.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (0hOvj)

133 Probably didn't think about some people never having read Neo's blog. If you've read it at all you know she's female, so it's easy to forget not everyone knows that.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:38 PM (nC+QA)

Only Neo I'd ever heard of was Keanu Reeves.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (U93OM)

134 Do you really want to be ruled by Sponge?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Why not?
He does seem to think he comes in FIRST all the time.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 28, 2023 12:37 PM (6CAm7)

Maybe that's how you win elections? Just yell FIRST!

Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 12:40 PM (anj39)

135 Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:32 PM (QBaJw)

I have dreams about sitting in parked cars, or getting handfuls of corroded coins.
Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 12:34 PM (xhaym)

Hmmm, easy interpretation: Feeling like you're not going anywhere, and the "rewards" you are getting for where you are may be less than what you want/need.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:40 PM (QBaJw)

136 But I live in a pineapple under the sea!

Posted by: Square Pants at January 28, 2023 12:41 PM (DhOHl)

137 Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (U93OM)

This Neo has been a blogger for quite a while. Used to blog as Neo-Neocon and updated at some point to Neo-Neo for reasons I've forgotten. Used to read her site regularly along with quite a few others. Don't remember why I stopped.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:43 PM (nC+QA)

138 I had read Neo Neo for years off and on, but not much lately and I was not familiar with Gerard Van Der Leun. He sounds like a good and thoughtful man.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:43 PM (D+F6R)

139 Only Neo I'd ever heard of was Keanu Reeves.
Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (U93OM)

Same here.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 28, 2023 12:45 PM (4I/2K)

140 The Judeo Christian worldview was an iron clad, absolute, rock solid, trustworthy structure to build around. Secular humanism is absolutely not.

Didn't take your post as argumentative at all. If we're going to down the mental experiment of "what should a society look like" - starting with a blank sheet of paper ? I would also pick Judeo Christianity as a building block - just because of its track record.

What I keep pounding on, regarding the idea of Objective Morality, is that its still up - at the end of the day - to the interpretation of humans. At least until somebody from higher up shows a little interest and calls a meeting. At which point, even my godless ass will pay attention. But until then - I'm the type that will insist my interpretation is just as important as any president, preacher, or pope.

Marx was right, religion is the opiate of the masses. What Marx conveniently left out, however, was that most people need to get high now and then.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:46 PM (U93OM)

141 Gerard was a good man, I read him regularly for years, had an exchange or two in the comments. Will be missed.
As for experiences, try former editor for Penthouse magazine, I believe, among others. Also tangentially involved with things around the Dakota when John Lennon met his end.

Posted by: From about that time at January 28, 2023 12:47 PM (4780s)

142 I'm Henry the 50th I am iam.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at January 28, 2023 12:47 PM (5+wyi)

143 I think next week his unit makes the jump over to Anzio.
Posted by: Muldoon at January 28, 2023 11:50 AM (ykeLU)

Love these entries Muldoon.
This one reminds me of the only time I was called to be a survival assistance officer. The widow lived in Seattle and her husband had passed away. Retired army. She had collected all his army things into one box. It included the MoH he won at Anzio as a platoon leader. I told her she must of married a heck of a guy.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 12:47 PM (anj39)

144
I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Does anyone at Davos yell out "First!"

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 28, 2023 12:48 PM (63Dwl)

145 But I live in a pineapple under the sea!
Posted by: Square Pants at January 28, 2023 12:41 PM (DhOHl)

F is for fire that burns down the whole town
U is for uranium bomb
N is for no survivors!
When you have FUN!

Posted by: Plankton at January 28, 2023 12:48 PM (4I/2K)

146 And as for blasting caps, we used to have to break into the Buddliner commuter trains parked overnight to get our supply.
Apparently they were used like flares, only boom! if the train broke down. Somebody would run back and place them on the rails or something.

Posted by: From about that time at January 28, 2023 12:49 PM (4780s)

147 I believe I am going through this transition.
Posted by: BurtTC

You aren't alone Brother.
Posted by: Tonypete at January 28, 2023 11:35 AM (qoGsy)

A well-worn path. Unique to us who are discovering it, but one taken by many many before us, those cursed and fortunate to have the time to contemplate such things.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 11:39 AM (QBaJw)

Thoughtful words my friends. God bless you both.

Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at January 28, 2023 12:49 PM (+a8WH)

148 Long time reader of NewNeo, she stops by here very often, drops a comment in once in a while but links stuff from here a lot.

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 12:49 PM (xhxe8)

149 Probably didn't think about some people never having read Neo's blog. If you've read it at all you know she's female, so it's easy to forget not everyone knows that.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:38 PM (nC+QA)

I've followed links to her blog but this is one of the very few blogs I actually follow. So I recognized it when I clicked the link but that was only after reading the quote.

Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at January 28, 2023 12:50 PM (1/Nwl)

150 Does anyone at Davos yell out "First!"
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 28, 2023 12:48 PM (63Dwl)

——————

When someone yells nood, they all run to the new secret lair.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:50 PM (u73oe)

151 2nd verse same as the 1st.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at January 28, 2023 12:50 PM (5+wyi)

152 Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 12:46 PM (U93OM)

Just curious: If your ass is godless to whom are you praying when you say you pray that the Davos types die in a fire?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:51 PM (D+F6R)

153 Diogenes @ 143-
CACO is at once a bitter duty and one you're honored to perform.

Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 12:51 PM (1vBNQ)

154 What I keep pounding on, regarding the idea of Objective Morality, is that its still up - at the end of the day - to the interpretation of humans.

I have read a similar argument about truth: if we cannot know exhaustively every single thing about something, then we cannot know it at all. The flaw with that argument is that you can know enough to act on it and trust the information.

The argument that something is not objective because it is interpreted is the same thing as saying "there is nothing objective". We don't have to know every single aspect of a law to obey it, we just have to know enough to know how to obey it and avoid breaking it. Our weaknesses and lack of perfect knowledge does not make something not objective.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:52 PM (0hOvj)

155 Religion is man's way of reaching out to God.

Christianity is God's way of reaching out to man.

Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:52 PM (KL6QW)

156 He sounds like a good and thoughtful man.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 12:43 PM (D+F6R)

From the excerpts in the post I'm sad that I never read his blog. His writing is evocative and touching without being maudlin.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at January 28, 2023 12:52 PM (nC+QA)

157 Diogenes @ 143-
CACO is at once a bitter duty and one you're honored to perform.
Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 12:51 PM (1vBNQ)

Indeed.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 12:53 PM (anj39)

158 What I keep pounding on, regarding the idea of Objective Morality, is that its still up - at the end of the day - to the interpretation of humans.

That is where the break-down lies. What one is claiming is that if a benevolent alien ambassador came to earth and with adequate Power Point presentations and data convinced the Ruling Class that the Alien's Way was better, that somehow this would make for a better human existence.

The problem is not in the Law itself because our LORD gave us the Golden Rule (and some might add the Sliver Rule). It isn't any simpler than that. Where the breakdown in civilization is when Imago Dei is abandoned and replaced with Lebensunwertes Leben (Image of God vs Life Unworthy of Life)

I submit that civilization breaks down when looking at your neighbor you no longer see them as a special creation, but are evaluating their value to you as if they are some diseased cattle.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at January 28, 2023 12:55 PM (l7lsb)

159 I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Do you really want to be ruled by Sponge?
-
I'd like to see the President call the White House press corps to a briefing at 6 am every day to yell "First!"

Posted by: Tony S. at January 28, 2023 12:55 PM (kOpft)

160 I think about dying more often these days, 74 this month and gotta be close. Not afraid to die, know where I'm going. Not interested in the details.

Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM (1vBNQ)

161 I had posted occasionally on both Gerard's and Neo's blog under this name. This is my first post ever here at AOS, but I have been a lurker for years.

Gerard will be greatly missed. I'm not young, but fairly well-read. Gerard's essay titled "The Name in the Stone" remains, to me, the single best piece of writing that I have every encountered. It is worth your while to take it in.

https://www.newamericandigest.com/the-name-in-the-stone/

Posted by: Roll-aid at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM (X/wQt)

162 And that's the problem we face. Moral structures change over time from one to another. Religions are deposed and new ones take over. That's the pattern of history. What is key is how valid a religion is and how well it can sustain civilization. The Judeo Christian worldview was an iron clad, absolute, rock solid, trustworthy structure to build around. Secular humanism is absolutely not.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 12:39 PM (0hOvj)

It starts with the agreement to start with what came before, and not to throw out what is old and past and inconvenient.

Ye olde Chesterton's fence.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM (QBaJw)

163 Fifty Morons to rule them all, Fifty Morons to find them, Fifty Morons to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 12:59 PM (FVME7)

164 Religion is man's way of reaching out to God.

Christianity is God's way of reaching out to man.
Posted by: SMH at January 28, 2023 12:52 PM (KL6QW)

Worship is man reaching out to God. (One doesn't necessarily need a religion to do it.)

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at January 28, 2023 12:59 PM (BdMk6)

165 K.T., thank you so very much. The thread is beautiful - touching, thought provoking, a lovely tribute to, as Fenelon Spoke wrote above, "(He sounds like) a good and throughful man."

Posted by: Lola at January 28, 2023 01:00 PM (Wxlzw)

166 Ye olde Chesterton's fence.

Leftists starting in the 60s: Let's destroy every element of traditional American culture

Leftists now: Why is there so much crime, corruption, and despair in America?

Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 01:00 PM (lc5cP)

167 And Christianity is only one of the infinite ways God can speak to man.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at January 28, 2023 01:01 PM (BdMk6)

168 Welcome, Roll-aid!
Gerard was indeed a wonderful writer. I never commented on his blog but certainly read with delight.

Posted by: LadyS at January 28, 2023 01:02 PM (VGiJY)

169 I would rather be governed by the first 50 commentators on the HQ than any participant in this Davos spectacle.

Even 50 traditional despots would be better. Your average banana republican or Putin wants a share of the nation's wealth and to be El Jefe. He doesn't want to cut your kid's genitals off or make you suck ladypenis.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 01:02 PM (lc5cP)

170 157 Diogenes @ 143-
CACO is at once a bitter duty and one you're honored to perform.
Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 12:51 PM (1vBNQ)

Indeed.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 12:53 PM (anj39)

I had notification duty one for 24 hour period. Thankfully no one with family around Ft. Hood died that day.

Posted by: Javems at January 28, 2023 01:02 PM (3EZN1)

171 Off, alcoholic superhero sock!

Posted by: Methos at January 28, 2023 01:02 PM (kOpft)

172 Does anyone at Davos yell out "First!"
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 28, 2023 12:48 PM (63Dwl)

——————

When someone yells nood, they all run to the new secret lair.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at January 28, 2023 12:50 PM (u73oe)

Run? Don't you mean pad slowly, quietly, like a certain odd shaped dog?

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:03 PM (QBaJw)

173 thoughful man

Just one day w/o a type seems too much for me to do, darn it. My apology.

Posted by: Lola at January 28, 2023 01:04 PM (Wxlzw)

174 Fifty Morons to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 12:59 PM (FVME7)

Kinky!

Can I request the other 49 in my cohort all be 'ettes?

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:05 PM (QBaJw)

175 We don't have to know every single aspect of a law to obey it, we just have to know enough to know how to obey it and avoid breaking it.

We're going to go around and around about this, and never agree. Because, at the end of the day, those who ascribe to an Objective Morality - as you do - typically feel empowered not only to follow it but to enforce it.

I say - I'll obey or break a law as I see fit. And I do, plenty. Trust me. Because laws come from men. Even if the laws you support come from your God - you're still just a man pushing laws.

Now, if your God - you'll say the God, that's fine - comes down ? I'll listen accordingly.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:05 PM (U93OM)

176 So on the one hand John Kerry is a pompous idiot and regularly says stupid things.

-
The man is a war hero! He strangled Ho Chi Minh with his own intestines! Audie Murphy would doff his hat when he walked by.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:06 PM (FVME7)

177 I'm Henry the 50th I am iam.
Posted by: humphreyrobot at January 28, 2023 12:47 PM (5+wyi)

I don't think I want to be ruled by 50 yams.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 28, 2023 01:06 PM (xhaym)

178 Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 01:00 PM (lc5cP)

Good point.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 01:06 PM (D+F6R)

179 And Christianity is only one of the infinite ways God can speak to man.
-
It's the only one that offers forgiveness for sins. All the others are some degree of fire and brimstone.

Posted by: Methos at January 28, 2023 01:06 PM (kOpft)

180 *Now, if your God - you'll say the God, that's fine - comes down ? I'll listen accordingly.*

Ahem.

Posted by: Jesus of Nazareth at January 28, 2023 01:09 PM (DhOHl)

181 Ye olde Chesterton's fence.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM (QBaJw)

The irony of this is that, in twenty years, all these new fences getting erected now will be defended by shiny, fresh faced communists quoting the Chesterton's Fence argument.

Chesterton's problem, as is with those quoting Objective Morality, is that Chesterton always assumed he'd approve of the fences left standing.

FWIW - I really enjoy these kinds of conversations. I really do. If we were at a bar, I'd buy the next round. That's why I come here - because you simply can not find people in real life that can converse at this level.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:09 PM (U93OM)

182 160 I think about dying more often these days, 74 this month and gotta be close. Not afraid to die, know where I'm going. Not interested in the details.

Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM (1vBNQ)

I don't fear death. I just dread it. Won't be around to take care of my people.

Posted by: Javems at January 28, 2023 01:09 PM (3EZN1)

183 Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:05 PM (U93OM)

Again; You said that your ass is godless, so to whom are you praying when you say "I'll pray that te Davos types die in a fire.?" Are you praying to the god of your own will, your own decisios?n. Then I suggest you might consider going to the various houses of the Davoise and bring the fire.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 01:09 PM (D+F6R)

184 It's the only one that offers forgiveness for sins. All the others are some degree of fire and brimstone.
Posted by: Methos at January 28, 2023 01:06 PM (kOpft)L

I believe differently. You may believe as you wish. I really don't care.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at January 28, 2023 01:10 PM (BdMk6)

185 I wish you had mentioned Neo being female before the quoted piece. I read the entire thing assuming ...
Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at January 28, 2023 12:29 PM (1/Nwl)

Same. And then questioning why they had to keep their relationship secret. It's none of my business of course, but that's what I was thinking.
Posted by: BurtTC
===
Not kept secret in real life, that would be stupid. But in their public lives, their blogging, one chose to do so, and the other obliged that choice. What used to be called civil behavior. Pretty common once.

Posted by: From about that time at January 28, 2023 01:13 PM (4780s)

186 The conversations I find you can hear in public nowadays...

How about that Sportsball play? It was amazing, almost as good as the average quality of play 20 years ago!

Have you seen starlet X? She'd be hot if not for all those tattoos. And with autotune she can almost sing!

This new movie is really funny. You see the old straight white guy keeps doing stupid things. Why its almost as funny as a subpar bugs bunny cartoon!

Yeah my cousin just died suddenly. Its really sad he'd just gotten his last booster so he could join the running team but yeah I guess he had some undiagnosed heart issue.

Posted by: 18-1 at January 28, 2023 01:14 PM (lc5cP)

187 Fen, I often wonder about you. Are you really that literal, or do you just play dumb ? I don't pray, Fen. It was a throw-away line to make a point - the point being, I wouldn't ever consider asking a higher power for mercy for my enemies.

I don't discount the power of prayer for others, the same as I don't discount the power of meditation or other such spiritual pursuits. Its just not for me.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:14 PM (U93OM)

188 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:15 PM (Zz0t1)

189 Just found out a friend got his credit card info stolen again and they emptied his account at Walmart.com.

He's hating life again......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:16 PM (Zz0t1)

190 What is with the two UFOs in the top picture?

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 01:17 PM (wsHtO)

191
FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:15 PM

it's about time...you done got elected to something

Posted by: AltonJackson at January 28, 2023 01:17 PM (ENBF0)

192
it's about time...you done got elected to something
Posted by: AltonJackson at January 28, 2023 01:17 PM (ENBF0)

Uh oh......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:17 PM (Zz0t1)

193 188 FIRST!!!!!

Better late than never.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:18 PM (U93OM)

194 Just found out a friend got his credit card info stolen again and they emptied his account at Walmart.com.

He's hating life again......
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:16 PM (Zz0t1)
***

Heh,
I just got some span that says my Amazon Account has been frozen and the link is to LinkedIn.
Nope. Not clicking that.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 01:19 PM (anj39)

195 Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:14 PM (U93OM)

why do you feel a need to insult me instead of answering the question, Scoggy? My level of intelligence or naivete or lack therof for each has nothing to do with what I asked. You were the one who said "I"ll pray that the Davos types die in a fire, in which case you're not discounting praying, You're just not indicating to whom you do pray.

But I don't have time to pursue it now. Have a good day.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 01:20 PM (D+F6R)

196 So much about death.

The Good Lord didn't put you here on this rock to live in fear.

Get busy living or get busy dying, your choice.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2023 01:20 PM (R/m4+)

197 Does Chesterton's fence have an Overton window?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 28, 2023 01:21 PM (63Dwl)

198 "What is truth?"
~ Pontius Pilate

-
I watched a documentary (on NatGeo?) about the slaughter arising from our attempt to cross the Rapido, a small and seemingly insignificant river (and specifically about the archeological remains of the Casino campaign). The Rapido at that spot was narrow but deep and with steep banks. Once in the river, even on the flimsy boats provided, it was difficult to get out. And they had to approach the river, carrying the boats, across a few hundred yards of sparse cover.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:22 PM (FVME7)

199 Heh,
I just got some span that says my Amazon Account has been frozen and the link is to LinkedIn.
Nope. Not clicking that.
Posted by: Diogenes at January 28, 2023 01:19 PM (anj39)

It's amazing how many times I've supposedly renewed my Geek Squad support account......

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (Zz0t1)

200 Fifty Morons to rule them all, Fifty Morons to find them, Fifty Morons to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 12:59 PM (FVME7)

BELCH!

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (ZSK0i)

201 The conversations I find you can hear in public nowadays...

Yeah. I can count the number of times I've enjoyed a good back and forth regarding Milton Friedman while drinking a beer and shooting a rack of eight ball on ... zero hands.

Funny you mentioned sportsball. I find myself now going back over a ton of comments I used to hear from the old conspiracy theory hippies - as I used to view them as my not yet thirty right wing self - about how sports were a useful tool to distract the masses from more important things. Can't say they were wrong.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (U93OM)

202 185

I find it kind of sad that this is a default response. Yeah, that was my first reaction, and then being glad as to the real situation.
This is the road the left takes us down....
Wasn't that long ago we would just have assumed this was a normal, healthy relationship.
Again, very sad....

Posted by: COMountainMarie at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (F2Bjy)

203 We're going to go around and around about this, and never agree. Because, at the end of the day, those who ascribe to an Objective Morality - as you do - typically feel empowered not only to follow it but to enforce it.

That is a completely separate issue from whether or not objective morality exists. Not liking how people react to truth doesn't mean the truth is deleted.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (0hOvj)

204 198: I meant to paste Muldoon's dad's comments on the Rapido, not some spaghetti bender politician.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:24 PM (FVME7)

205
That is a completely separate issue from whether or not objective morality exists. Not liking how people react to truth doesn't mean the truth is deleted.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (0hOvj)

Unless you're a homosexual Pfizer employee.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:24 PM (Zz0t1)

206 That is a completely separate issue from whether or not objective morality exists. Not liking how people react to truth doesn't mean the truth is deleted.

Then how do we find it ? How do we objectively prove it ?

And I'll tell you in advance - I'm in the Heinlein camp on this. The only thing objective is mathematics. Everything else is opinion.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:26 PM (U93OM)

207 Funny you mentioned sportsball.

-
Speaking of sportspuck . . .

Bucks’ Halftime Drag Show for “Pride Night” Sparks Debate on Social Media

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:26 PM (FVME7)

208 Mark Spitz is the greatest competitive swimmer of all time.

Fight me.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:27 PM (yQpMk)

209 In a Democracy, the peepul get to choose their morality. Hence, Democracies degrade into anarchy.

There is something to be said for Monarchies. Heaven blesses a King that administers Justice and destroys those that do not.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at January 28, 2023 01:29 PM (TXFi7)

210 "The Name in the Stone" remains, to me, the single best piece of writing that I have every encountered. It is worth your while to take it in.

Thank you. Just started reading it and I can tell already that it's going to be excellent.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at January 28, 2023 01:30 PM (Xrfse)

211 Does Chesterton's fence have an Overton window?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at January 28, 2023 01:21 PM (63Dwl)

Good question. Let's ask Schrodinger's cat... oh.

Oh.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:30 PM (QBaJw)

212 And I'll tell you in advance - I'm in the Heinlein camp on this. The only thing objective is mathematics. Everything else is opinion.

So if there's any question or debate on math -- which there is at the highest level -- then its not objective. That's your argument in a nutshell. And you know that's ridiculous.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:30 PM (0hOvj)

213 There is something to be said for Monarchies. Heaven blesses a King that administers Justice and destroys those that do not.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at January 28, 2023 01:29 PM (TXFi7)

What exactly do you think the New Elite are trying to build ? Feudalism - its said here all the time. Everyone dreams of a Benevolent Monarch. That's typically not the Monarch you get.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (U93OM)

214 Arguing for relative morality and using strawmen to support the argument. No self awareness.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (Iu1CX)

215 So, there is no Divine Revelation?

LOL.

It starts with the Ten Commandments.

Disregard them at your peril.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (TXFi7)

216 The whole thing about objective truth is that it stands on its own. It is not negated or altered even if no one believes it and it cannot be twisted. Power (or force) is not what sustains it.

Subjective "truth" is the type that is unique to each person and can be wrong, right, or indifferent.

Posted by: Emmie at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (Emce2)

217 GARDEN NOOD IS BLOOMING

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (xhxe8)

218 Good question. Let's ask Schrodinger's cat... oh.

Oh.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:30 PM (QBaJw)

He's dead, Jim.

Posted by: Dr. McCoy at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (yQpMk)

219 She'd be hot if not for all those tattoos.

-
I've mentioned Prime's series Peripheral partially set in London in 2100. They've got animated tattoos. So we've got that to look forward to.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:31 PM (FVME7)

220 Animated tattoos?

Posted by: Two Dogs Fucking at January 28, 2023 01:32 PM (TXFi7)

221 So if there's any question or debate on math -- which there is at the highest level -- then its not objective. That's your argument in a nutshell. And you know that's ridiculous.

You're reaching, Chris. I can't tell you a thing about theoretical mathematics - its not my bag. But we call it theoretical for a reason. It's not fact.

Yet - when it comes down to applied mathematics - that's the only objective I know. Because I can prove it - on pen and paper, beyond dispute.

I know where you're going. It was where Red was going last night.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:34 PM (U93OM)

222 Mark Spitz is the greatest competitive swimmer of all time.

Fight me.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:27 PM (yQpMk)

Probably not. There was likely some unknown and unnamed sailor from the USS Indianapolis who was greater.

He just lost his last race.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:35 PM (QBaJw)

223 He just lost his last race.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2023 01:35 PM (QBaJw)

I laughed.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:36 PM (U93OM)

224 And I'll tell you in advance - I'm in the Heinlein camp on this. The only thing objective is mathematics. Everything else is opinion.
-
I'm told one proof of God is:

e ^ (pi * i) +1 = 0

Posted by: Methos at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (kOpft)

225
Bucks’ Halftime Drag Show for “Pride Night” Sparks Debate on Social Media
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:26 PM (FVME7)

And the NBA wonders why I never watch anything that has to do with it.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (Zz0t1)

226 Hell may be worse than I thought.

Austin, TX, Pastor Gerald A. Johnson (who for some reason is being called a priest) released a TikTok video where he explains that in 2016 he had a heart attack and went to hell where demons sang Rihanna songs to torture people.

https://bit.ly/40dhR9W

I assume Yoko songs are reserved to those who take up two parking spaces.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (FVME7)

227 I assume Yoko songs are reserved to those who take up two parking spaces.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (FVME7)

The 10th Circle of Hell.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:41 PM (yQpMk)

228 FIRST!!!!!
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at January 28, 2023 01:15 PM (Zz0t1)

THERE CAN ONLY BE 10,000!

Posted by: Nac Mac Feegles (all of them_ at January 28, 2023 01:41 PM (xhaym)

229 Yet - when it comes down to applied mathematics - that's the only objective I know. Because I can prove it - on pen and paper, beyond dispute.

*grinding sound of goalposts moving*

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:42 PM (0hOvj)

230 Pastor Gerald A. Johnson (who for some reason is being called a priest) released a TikTok video where he explains that in 2016 he had a heart attack and went to hell

I hope this inspired him to convert to the LCMS.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:42 PM (yQpMk)

231 I assume Yoko songs are reserved to those who take up two parking spaces.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (FVME7)

The 10th Circle of Hell.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:41 PM (yQpMk)

Dante' wrote about it, then burned the pages. It was just too much, even for him.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:42 PM (U93OM)

232 Subjective "truth" is the type that is unique to each person and can be wrong, right, or indifferent.
Posted by: Emmie
------

Simply stated, that's it.

I'm amused when someone says that they subscribe to a 'personal morality'. They might ramble on about the basis for that being DeCartes, Gandhi, etc., but the bottom line is that their 'morality' is highly malleable. It can (and does) change with a change of their mind, which is to say, it is no morality at all.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 28, 2023 01:42 PM (yMEwp)

233 What exactly do you think the New Elite are trying to build ? Feudalism - its said here all the time. Everyone dreams of a Benevolent Monarch. That's typically not the Monarch you get.
-
Israel didn't want to be ruled by God, they wanted a king like everyone else. The first one was every bit the monster God warned them "a king like everyone else" was going to be. Then they had David who engineered a defeat for his army to kill one of his best soldiers whose wife he had slept with just to cover it up, and his misrule eventually led to civil war.

And David was the best they ever got.

Posted by: Methos at January 28, 2023 01:43 PM (kOpft)

234 *grinding sound of goalposts moving*

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:42 PM (0hOvj)

Lets start at the basics. 1 + 1 = 2. That's objective. Or shall I prove it to you ? I can.

Chris, what you want to do - you're dying to - is tie Objective Morality to the Ten Commandments or some other Christian dictate. But you can't - even here - because even here, many folks will balk at the idea of living in a Theocracy.

That's where Red stopped yesterday.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:44 PM (U93OM)

235 Thank you KT, for posting about Gerard's passing.

Thank you very much...

Posted by: browndog Official Mascot of Team Gizzard at January 28, 2023 01:47 PM (CCSxw)

236 I'm amused when someone says that they subscribe to a 'personal morality'. They might ramble on about the basis for that being DeCartes, Gandhi, etc., but the bottom line is that their 'morality' is highly malleable.

I fouled the ten ball as I was cueing over it to sink the six in the side. My opponent did not see it, but I called it anyway. I consider that highly moral.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:48 PM (U93OM)

237 King Josiah and Don Schollander FTW!

Posted by: Fugitive From Board of Mental Health at January 28, 2023 01:48 PM (8ocB+)

238 I can't believe y'all are still arguing this. I doubt anyone's position has moved a millimeter in the last 24 hours.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (yQpMk)

239 Just realized Sundowner had the first ever Lunar New Year celebration at the White House honoring the Chinese New Year
They don't even try and cover up he is a Chinese employee

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (xhxe8)

240 The discussion over whether there is such a thing as an objective morality that can be discerned without reference to an external giver of that morality goes back to at least Kant. It cannot be resolved.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (7B5FA)

241 Just realized Sundowner had the first ever Lunar New Year celebration at the White House honoring the Chinese New Year They don't even try and cover up he is a Chinese employee Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (xhxe

I'm surprised the Clintons didn't have one. That sounds very much like something they would do. Of course, the Lunar New Year is also known as "Tet" in some circles, which might have brought up some other questions.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 01:54 PM (7B5FA)

242 I can't believe y'all are still arguing this. I doubt anyone's position has moved a millimeter in the last 24 hours.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (yQpMk)

To me, that's not the point. It's the argument itself that I come here for. Even if nobody moves - just getting my arms around it, for lack of a better expression - is why I do it.

Most people in real life just do what they do because that's what they do. Ask them why ? It usually comes out in a bunch of screaming that could be summed up as "because".

I use this analogy all the time. People are boats. The set the sail, push off in a direction ... and something happens. But they will not change that sail or rudder regardless. That fascinates me. It's usually tragic, but interesting all the same.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:56 PM (U93OM)

243 The discussion over whether there is such a thing as an objective morality that can be discerned without reference to an external giver of that morality goes back to at least Kant. It cannot be resolved.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 01:52 PM (7B5FA)

It's easily resolved, and you gave the game away in your response. The arguers of Objective Morality want Theocracy based on their particular Judeo Christian belief. But no way in Hell will they say it as plain as that. No way.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:58 PM (U93OM)

244 I suggest you considering reading Kurt Godel on mathematical proof for the existence of God, Scoggy:

https://tinyurl.com/yaubja7f

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 02:00 PM (D+F6R)

245 Most people in real life just do what they do because that's what they do.

Man is a reasoning creature, not necessarily a reason giving creature. An inarticulate opinion is still an opinion. In a Republic, no matter how I know, I know. That I can't, or won't, make a case to convince others makes no difference to me.

So, in the end, I'm right. Those that disagree, suck cock by choice.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 02:01 PM (yQpMk)

246 Posted by: Roll-aid at January 28, 2023 12:56 PM

Wow. You were not wrong. That essay is a masterpiece. Got a bit of dust in my eyes as I read. Again, many thanks. Happy trails, Gerard.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at January 28, 2023 02:02 PM (Xrfse)

247 Hell may be worse than I thought.

Austin, TX, Pastor Gerald A. Johnson (who for some reason is being called a priest) released a TikTok video where he explains that in 2016 he had a heart attack and went to hell where demons sang Rihanna songs to torture people.

https://bit.ly/40dhR9W

I assume Yoko songs are reserved to those who take up two parking spaces.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Not a Real Simulation at January 28, 2023 01:37 PM (FVME7)

What I found interesting about his story was his statement to the effect, "I knew I was going up to Heaven because I had done a lot of good." That's the sin of Presumption.

Also interesting was that after being lifted out of Hell, Jesus told him to forgive the people that had hurt him rather than wanting Jesus to condemn them. Agape' (unconditional love) does not require us to tolerate evil nor give good counsel; Agape' does require us to want our enemies to go to Heaven, too.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:02 PM (pJWtt)

248 So, in the end, I'm right. Those that disagree, suck cock by choice.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at January 28, 2023 02:01 PM (yQpMk)

A fine way to end the discussion, right there. I'm laughing my ass off. Thank you. Enjoy your weekend. Put a beer on my tab.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:04 PM (U93OM)

249 Have up Gerard's article but haven't looked yet.

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 02:04 PM (xhxe8)

250 It's easily resolved, and you gave the game away in your response. The arguers of Objective Morality want Theocracy based on their particular Judeo Christian belief. But no way in Hell will they say it as plain as that. No way. Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:58 PM (U93OM)

Well, no, it's not. Kant can argue for himself (or at least Zombie Kant can) and I encourage reading him, for example "Metaphysics of Morals" is short and dense. His substitute for an external lawgiver was what he called the "grundnorm" (that basically equates to the Golden Rule). There logically has to be some principle out there that society can agree, even if implicitly, makes one thing "right" and another thing "wrong."

Other dimensions are things like to what degree the rules are hard or fuzzy, to what degree the norms are hereditary versus learned, and the extent to which rules guide behaviors. But no one argues that the determination of "right" and "wrong" is always situational and never objectively resolved. The argument is always about who makes the rules.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:06 PM (7B5FA)

251 Have up Gerard's article but haven't looked yet.

You're in for a treat, Skip.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at January 28, 2023 02:07 PM (Xrfse)

252 I suggest you considering reading Kurt Godel on mathematical proof for the existence of God, Scoggy:

I probably will - have run out of shit to read. FWIW - I don't discount the idea of a God. I've been plain about that. The idea of Intelligent Design is what gets my attention the most.

Look around, at how everything works in the natural world. When you delve into the math about how things work, its just "unified" - for lack of a better term. The amount of negative feedback systems that exist is mind boggling. It's hard to believe, for me at least, that they all simply arose out of a uniform chaos.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:10 PM (U93OM)

253 There logically has to be some principle out there that society can agree, even if implicitly, makes one thing "right" and another thing "wrong."

Then we're back at the beginning. Because "live and let live" is how we started, a day ago. I say, "live and let suffer". But no, other folks like Red Turban Someguy - and now Chris Taylor - are compelled to tell me that Objective Morality means that's not acceptable.

And here's the kicker ... let me get Someguy and Taylor in a room. Give me an hour, and I'll have them at each other's throats like Kirk and the Gorn. But they both believe in Objective Morality.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:13 PM (U93OM)

254 That is a completely separate issue from whether or not objective morality exists. Not liking how people react to truth doesn't mean the truth is deleted.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at January 28, 2023 01:23 PM (0hOvj)
------
Then how do we find it ? How do we objectively prove it ?

And I'll tell you in advance - I'm in the Heinlein camp on this. The only thing objective is mathematics. Everything else is opinion.
Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 01:26 PM (U93OM)

You should give me your possessions. It is my opinion that I need them more than you do. You disagree; therefore, what standard should be used to resolve that dispute?

Your understanding of the Decalogue (i.e., Ten Commandments) is faulty. Obeying them does not equal "theocracy."

I suspect you're going to be listening to Rhianna on repeat if you're not careful.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:13 PM (pJWtt)

255 The arguers of Objective Morality want Theocracy based on their particular Judeo Christian belief. But no way in Hell will they say it as plain as that. No way.

You probably shouldn't speak for the entirety of Christians here and those who believe in objective moraility, Scoggy who have not argued here for a theocracy, or do you think that doing whatever we "feelz" like is a good basis for a society? Militant Atheist leftists believe that. There is no conductor for the orchestra needed because we'll be our own conductor. "My ten year old boy feels like he's a girl so I'll castrate him" but Bible says "Male and female he created them" or" I just wanted to take those things from the Walgreens and so I'll do it. but Bible says "THos shalt not steal" Let's all be our own God and do whatever we like because all morality should be subjective. Othewise we'll have a theocracy which we haven't actually had here since the 1600's.You bring the fire to Davos. You're praying to whoemever that they'll all die in a fire, right?

Dear Fibbies; I am not suggesting harm to the Davoise. Just making a point.

Catch you on your next handle, Scogg.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 28, 2023 02:14 PM (D+F6R)

256 Roll-aid

Thank you. "The Name in the Stone" is profound and poignant. Great writing, and underlies the sacrifices we all make to keep civilization moving forward.

I am glad I read that.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at January 28, 2023 02:14 PM (u82oZ)

257 I suspect you're going to be listening to Rhianna on repeat if you're not careful. Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:13 PM (pJWtt)

Could be worse.

Posted by: John Lennon at January 28, 2023 02:15 PM (7B5FA)

258 A very nice memoriam KT thank you

May his memory be a blessing

Posted by: San Franpsycho at January 28, 2023 02:16 PM (EZebt)

259 You should give me your possessions. It is my opinion that I need them more than you do. You disagree; therefore, what standard should be used to resolve that dispute?

I like where you're going with this.

I currently screwed with giving up about 40% of the yearly accumulation of my possessions to the government. They then give it away doing who knows what. I'd stop that arrangement if I had the power, trust me.

Yet, what I've got in the console of my truck at all times means I don't have to give one thin red time to the tweeker on the street.

It's all subjective.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:17 PM (U93OM)

260 You know what just struck me? The post mentioned Gerard had severe back pain. Same thing Kirstie Alley reported. And she went quickly afterwards too

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 02:18 PM (4IUUf)

261 Article was good

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 02:20 PM (xhxe8)

262 You know what just struck me? The post mentioned Gerard had severe back pain. Same thing Kirstie Alley reported. And she went quickly afterwards too Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 28, 2023 02:18 PM (4IUUf)

I had a niece who went to the ER one night with lower back pain. Turned out to be multiple tumors in her spinal fluid, a form of melanoma. She fought hard, but within 3 years was gone.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:23 PM (7B5FA)

263 I['m] currently screwed with giving up about 40% of the yearly accumulation of my possessions to the government. They then give it away doing who knows what. I'd stop that arrangement if I had the power, trust me.

Yet, what I've got in the console of my truck at all times means I don't have to give one thin red time to the tweeker on the street.

It's all subjective.
Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:17 PM (U93OM)

Collectivism is not charity; the Commies have done a great job of conflating charity with forcible redistribution of wealth. However, is no one deserving of charity?

Your argument that there is no objective truth is ultimately self-defeating. If everything is subjective, my truth (based on the Judeo-Christian Ethic) is that you're incorrect. Therefore, you have no standard by which to refute my argument.

In your view, I guess we're left with feats of strength to resolve what is true or not.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:30 PM (pJWtt)

264 I wrote this comment on American Digest about Gerard and his fine website:

We travel a short road, there is never enough time for the things that we love and never enough time for loving and being loved by others. Pain and suffering have been with mankind since the beginning and those functions remain rooted in us without refinement, coarse and unflinching; affection and love are famously unanchored and we might or might not find a place on that ship, many of us are stowaways and grab what we can find.

Your work here has given unmet friends like me just that comfort; a place of honesty and clarity, affection and appreciation. Just like that 50-cent piece your dad gave you, it is worth much more than face value.

Blessings Gerard, and a better life awaits. I wish I could say or do something that would help.

Posted by: Clear Eyed Killer at January 28, 2023 02:30 PM (c0zMy)

265 In your view, I guess we're left with feats of strength to resolve what is true or not.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:30 PM (pJWtt)

That's always what it comes down to. Which, once he got checked with that option, was the alley Red went down.

But if it all comes down to feats of strength ... or who can make who do what ? Then its not really all that Objective now is it ?

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:34 PM (U93OM)

266 262 I had a niece who went to the ER one night with lower back pain. Turned out to be multiple tumors in her spinal fluid, a form of melanoma. She fought hard, but within 3 years was gone.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at

I am so sorry, Caesar. My mom had back pain, and some abdomen pain which is why we thought gallstones. It’s pancreatic cancer, which by the time is shows symptoms, it’s too late. The tumor on her pancreas is 5cm and it has spread into her liver and digestive track. I understand there is a screening for pancreatic cancer now, as well as the galleri multi cancer screening, which is about $1300. I am going to speak with my doctor about either of this and get his take on it, I know we also have MDs here whose opinions I would love on these screening tools.

Posted by: Piper at January 28, 2023 02:36 PM (ZdaMQ)

267 263 In your view, I guess we're left with feats of strength to resolve what is true or not.
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:30 PM (pJWtt)

Isn't that basically the point that he's making, though? That the tribes fight each other and the one that comes out on top gets to declare what's right. It's certainly the history of human civilization, in any case.

Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:37 PM (PZvjL)

268 Collectivism is not charity; the Commies have done a great job of conflating charity with forcible redistribution of wealth. However, is no one deserving of charity? Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:30 PM (pJWtt)

@RBC, I think we probably agree on 99% of everything, but my view is that charity is about the giver, not about the recipient. No one has the right to demand me to give him anything. That I do so isn't because he's entitled, but because I choose to. So I guess I'd say that strictly, no one is deserving of charity. I give because of me, not because of him.

Now, there's a lot bigger questions about how we do it. You and I can choose to work together for our charity because it's easier than everyone seeking out recipients for themselves; collectively, we can decide to work with a large number of people to target our giving and reduce the overhead. I think of the Salvation Army or Catholic Charities as being particularly efficient at this, but we could all name a lot of others. Probably one of the least efficient methods for charitable giving is to have the government do it for us, yet here we are.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:39 PM (7B5FA)

269 Leftists have gotten Christians to think they are on the same side but to me Christians have nothing to learn from Leftists.

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 02:45 PM (xhxe8)

270 Isn't that basically the point that he's making, though? That the tribes fight each other and the one that comes out on top gets to declare what's right. It's certainly the history of human civilization, in any case. Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:37 PM (PZvjL)

Philosophically, the problem is that within the winning tribe, there is disagreement about what is right and wrong. Always. There is ultimately a reductio ad absurdum of this principle down to the individual that implies that unless there is something out there to guide us that we all agree on, it is always just a war of me versus you. So there has to be some standard of right and wrong that we can refer to.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:45 PM (7B5FA)

271 Just a random thought, how weird is it that Damar Hamlin supposedly attended the Buffalo Bills game completely swaddled so you could not see his face at all? Including goggles and a hood over his head and a scarf over his face?

Posted by: Beverly at January 28, 2023 02:46 PM (3k8kI)

272 Charity is something I've thought about a little bit of late, inasmuch as I don't do much of it and occasionally wonder if I should. But to whom would I give my money, and for what purpose? Everyone's begging for money for this and that but I have no direct relationship with any of these groups and achieve no personal satisfaction, spiritual fulfillment, or even a tax break (standard deduction, yo) from making donations.

One could make a strong argument that the collectivist definition of charity wins out if there's too many non participants like myself. But what solution exists that is not collectivist/communitarian coercion by a different name?

Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:47 PM (PZvjL)

273 When I called up the HQ this morning, I thought, perhaps KT will have an eulogy for Gerard. I can think of no one better to write it, you see. KT and Gerard lived fairly close, by western standards, but I don't know if they ever met.

A number of years ago, perhaps 15, Gerard was on his porch in Seattle with a friend who had been supposed to fly out the day before. Gerard dropped dead. That friend called 911, and started CPR. Gerard woke up two weeks later with a doctor sitting in a chair at the foot of his bed.

That friend is Neo-neocon, or The New Neo. I knew the story, as Gerard wrote about it, but I never knew until this week who that friend was. And now, years later, she was with him when he died for the second time.

My heart aches for her, as I have long been a fan of her writing, even when she politely scolded me for sloppy research.

Posted by: Gordon Scott at January 28, 2023 02:47 PM (HNQAY)

274 Leftists have gotten Christians to think they are on the same side but to me Christians have nothing to learn from Leftists. Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 02:45 PM (xhxe

You mean there's a problem with bringing a bunch of Somalis to our country to live off our welfare system?

Posted by: Minnesota church lady at January 28, 2023 02:48 PM (7B5FA)

275 On the other hand, what does "charity" even mean? Is there some rubric by which one's spending is deemed sufficiently wholesome? For example, I may not write checks to the Red Cross but I'm a staunch support-your-local-business guy and regularly pay more to get stuff from a mom and pop than to get it from Wally World or Dread Pirate Jeffrey's China/BLM Emporium. If I pay $500 more for goods that keep local people in my community employed and having a sense of self worth through honest work, is that more or less virtuous than writing a $500 check to a volunteer organization?

Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:50 PM (PZvjL)

276 But what solution exists that is not collectivist/communitarian coercion by a different name? Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:47 PM (PZvjL)

Then don't give. Charity is about your heart, not about the recipient. No one in America is starving to death, doesn't have access to health care, or needs to be given your money. Obesity is a much larger problem among the poor than starvation. You decide where your resources are best used and for what purpose.

As I posted above, Salvation Army and Catholic Charities both have very low overhead. I'm conflicted that both of them work with illegal aliens, which I believe encourages more illegal immigration. But there are a lot of people doing good works out there.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:54 PM (7B5FA)

277 If I pay $500 more for goods that keep local people in my community employed and having a sense of self worth through honest work, is that more or less virtuous than writing a $500 check to a volunteer organization? Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:50 PM (PZvjL)

See my post right below yours. I think we're in violent agreement.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:56 PM (7B5FA)

278 But if it all comes down to feats of strength ... or who can make who do what ? Then its not really all that Objective now is it ?
Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 02:34 PM (U93OM)

Using force to impose your will does not necessarily establish truth. You seem to be arguing for a moral relativism.

By their reasoning, Joe Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao, etc thought they were right in killing the 100+ million people under their control. There's no objective truth (according to you), so it's all good, no?

It was mentioned up-thread that there are two world-views at play: either humans are made in the image of God, or there are some not worthy of life. In other words, people have either an intrinsic or extrinsic value.

We're not going to agree on this, but your value system is not going to be spiritually fulfilling for you. Good luck.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 02:56 PM (pJWtt)

279 But what solution exists that is not collectivist/communitarian coercion by a different name? Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 02:47 PM (PZvjL)

Then don't give. Charity is about your heart, not about the recipient. ... You decide where your resources are best used and for what purpose.

As I posted above, Salvation Army and Catholic Charities both have very low overhead. I'm conflicted that both of them work with illegal aliens, which I believe encourages more illegal immigration. But there are a lot of people doing good works out there.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:54 PM (7B5FA)

Yes, there are many worthy charities out there. You just have to find the ones that align with your goals. I think you misunderstood me previously: I didn't mean to imply that pooling resources was the same thing as collectivism: if you're controlling where your resources are directed, that is not collectivism.

Besides the corporal works of charity, there are spiritual acts of charity.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 03:07 PM (pJWtt)

280 277 See my post right below yours. I think we're in violent agreement.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:56 PM (7B5FA)

I think we are, yes. But RBC has a good point about commies hijacking the concept of community participation and making it all about wealth transfer, and only wealth transfer. You and I would undoubtedly agree that a guy who agrees to be the mayor or his little town for a puny stipend is a model citizen, but many Americans--especially out-and-proud conservatives--hold dearly that one can only be a model citizen through monetary donations. Perhaps we thus find answers to the question of how exactly it was that The Right got so quickly and thoroughly cucked by The Left in the 21st century.

Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 03:08 PM (PZvjL)

281 "if you're controlling where your resources are directed, that is not collectivism." Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 03:07 PM (pJWtt)

Yup. It quits being charity when you and I decide to use the police power of the state to force someone else to contribute to our worthy cause.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 03:13 PM (7B5FA)

282 It's maybe worth noting at this point that I used to be in the nonprofit business; I wrote specialized software that 501 orgs use to manage their money. Not Blackbaud, though it's my understanding that the company eventually got bought by Blackbaud. As you might guess, this added significant complexity to the portion of my worldview that involves charitable giving.

Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 03:16 PM (PZvjL)

283 277 See my post right below yours. I think we're in violent agreement.
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 02:56 PM (7B5FA)

I think we are, yes. But RBC has a good point about commies hijacking the concept of community participation and making it all about wealth transfer, and only wealth transfer. ...Perhaps we thus find answers to the question of how exactly it was that The Right got so quickly and thoroughly cucked by The Left in the 21st century.
Posted by: CppThis at January 28, 2023 03:08 PM (PZvjL)

I just mentioned the concept of spiritual acts of charity. Praying for someone else is pleasing to God. He may not always grant that prayer in a way that we want, and sometimes his answer is "No."

One thing that has been occurring to me is that out-and-proud evils of the Commies/WEF globalists/ transgender mutilators makes sense if you understand that Satan and his demons are real beings, and influence people towards evil.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 03:17 PM (pJWtt)

284 The one thing that all of these "Bond villains" have in common is their overweening pride. Pride is the worst of the Deadly Sins for a reason.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at January 28, 2023 03:19 PM (pJWtt)

285 It was mentioned up-thread that there are two world-views at play: either humans are made in the image of God, or there are some not worthy of life. In other words, people have either an intrinsic or extrinsic value.

The blood always starts to flow when two people disagree as to what the image of their God looks like.

It's a simple point. It's what is so frustrating to me, because it's so damn simple that I often wonder if those who "don't" see it simply "won't" see it.

OK - so I don't wonder. I'm pretty sure it's a won't.

Posted by: I-IV-V at January 28, 2023 03:21 PM (U93OM)

286 Fight starts between those who believe in God and those who think they are

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 03:27 PM (xhxe8)

287 The money spent in the 'war on poverty' was wasted and is still being wasted. No part of it teaches self sufficiency.

Posted by: Eromero at January 28, 2023 03:29 PM (z3WCn)

288 Now that Joey's got eastern Europe in a roil he's moving on to stir up trouble in the far east.

"US Demands Return Of 1968 Seized Warship From North Korea"

Posted by: Braenyard, _ want nuremberg trials? badger your congressman at January 28, 2023 03:30 PM (oQbRJ)

289 Eromero on purpose one could add

Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 03:32 PM (xhxe8)

290 "US Demands Return Of 1968 Seized Warship From North Korea" Posted by: Braenyard, _ want nuremberg trials? badger your congressman at January 28, 2023 03:30 PM (oQbRJ)

I'd love to see Biden visiting Panmunjom to meet with Little Kim.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 03:33 PM (7B5FA)

291 Eromero on purpose one could add Posted by: Skip at January 28, 2023 03:32 PM (xhxe

I think LBJ had something salty to say about future voting constituencies.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 28, 2023 03:34 PM (7B5FA)

292 I get so upset when a chic comes on to me
I just don't know what to do.

-Google exec is suing because his female boss rubbed his abs and said her married life lacked spice.-

Posted by: Braenyard, _ want nuremberg trials? badger your congressman at January 28, 2023 04:10 PM (oQbRJ)

293 "Google exec is suing because his female boss rubbed his abs and said her married life lacked spice."

This is normal in that area of California.

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 04:13 PM (kYVzH)

294 But is it Wrong?

ha, ha....

Posted by: pawn at January 28, 2023 04:14 PM (kYVzH)

295 Gordon Scott at January 28, 2023 02:47 PM

I have been intrigued by Gerard's writing ever since I found it. Maybe you introduced it through comments here. I was intensely interested in what he wrote during the fires of 2018.

I was surprised about Neo, too.

Posted by: KT at January 28, 2023 04:54 PM (rrtZS)

296 About that linear city from Wednesday: this definitely reminded me of something, but I didn't know of what. The Dosadi Experiment!

Posted by: PG at January 28, 2023 05:50 PM (84jHt)

297 Hey KT

Thanks for the quote, and thanks for the post, and thanks for reading the comments to the end.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is junta manifest at January 29, 2023 03:41 AM (7LTRQ)

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