Sunday Morning Book Thread - 05-01-2022 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

(HT: Peter (my friends call me Pete) Zah)

Good morning, Horde! Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading (this has NOT aged well!). Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material, even if it's nothing more than Elon Musk's latest trolling on Twitter. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants...(minifigs not included)

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, sprinkle powdered sugar over those strawberry-topped Belgian waffles, and crack open a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

Today's pic is courtesy of Peter (my friends call me Pete) Zah. His daughter was trying out the panoramic view on her new phone. You can see the full picture HERE. Peter has quite the man-cave! I'm a little jealous...Here is some of the backstory on this room:

Just over 20 years ago, my wife and I purchased a Victorian/Edwardian hotel in a small, rural SE Washington state town. (There's a picture of this building HERE [It's worth checking out this website! -- PS]
Following demo of the insides... Do you have any idea of how much lathe is on the walls and ceilings of a 16,000 sq ft, 45-room hotel plus main floor business? Laying the sticks end to end, about 46 miles. or so I estimated when we were done. we reframed the small guest rooms of the 2nd and 3rd floors into residence and public areas including a couple of bed/breakfast suites. After 3+ years of having my library still in boxes and estimating it'd be five years before we would finish my room, my wife remarked that books were probably good insulation and once in shelves were as good as drywall in blocking the view. (grin) That was about 2003. Guess how much has changed since then? Not much. I STILL have bookshelves as drywall and books as insulation. We're still moving along but nowhere as quickly as we did 15 years ago when we were still 29 years old.
I'm not complaining. I've ended up with a roughly 14' wide by 20' long room with lots of books. The beautiful shelving is what I got over the years from garage/surplus sales and inexpensive shelving because it's not going to be needed long (haha). The only problem with it is it's not enough. So I've ended up with books sideways, on the floor, even 3 more shelves in the hall outside. (Yes, thank you, I'd like some cheese with that whine!) Looking at the picture, the middle section is my scanning center (with me in the center) It looks like her image got about 80-85 of the room, so she did quite well with a new device.

WHO DIS

CLUE 1 - Roman historian.

CLUE 2 - Close friend of Pliny the Younger.

CLUE 3 - Wrote biographies of several Roman emperors.

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(Full Disclosure: I *hate* it when books are mis-shelved! I'm a bit OCD when it comes to arranging books...)

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BOOKS BY MORONS

Longtime Moron reader here, who appreciates your taking over one of my must-read Sunday morning sites!
I have just published Cold Secrets, Book 2 in the Swamp Yankee Mystery series (hey look! It's a series!).
Book 1, Glitter Girl, came out in February and has done quite nicely, thanks. Book 3 due later this summer.
In this new one, Julius Haddock, the former chief of police of the small Rhode Island town of Little Penwick (and not to be confused with his son, Gus Haddock, who is the current chief) is out of jail (put there by a corrupt Rhode Island AG) and planning his revenge.
But first, he takes up an old cold case from the police files, a 30-year-old unsolved murder case involving a young girl abducted and killed on her way to work at a farm stand.
In digging into the case, Julius discovers several other secrets, new and old, that refuse to stay buried.
Swamp Yankee is a small-town cop mystery/thriller genre, centering on those ay-yup Swamp Yankees that inhabit this part of New England.
Thanks in advance for any promo help you can provide!
Regards,
Jim Bartlett
www.jamesybartlett.com

Comment: Jim has written a number of mysteries. Apparently golf courses are quite the hotbeds of murder and intrigue! I used to work at a golf course, but never discovered any dead bodies...Just means they were really well-hidden! His current series is set in the smallest town of the smallest state. I guess that makes the pool of suspects fairly small as well...Nobody saw nuffin'!

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MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

I wanted to tell you about an author named Tom Holland. He is NOT the actor who plays Spiderman in the eleventy-billionth reboot of that unfortunate franchise. The first of Holland's books I read was also his most recent, called Dominion. That book is outstanding, and is about Christianity's influence throughout the world over the last 2,000 years. Holland is also the author of Rubicon about Julius Caesar's fated decision to destroy the Roman Republic; Dynasty, about the Rise and Fall of the House of Caesar, The Shadow of the Sword, about the rise of Islam; and The Forge of Christendom, about Christianity at the year 1,000 AD. I have all of these books, and can say that they are very well-researched and written. He is a fine writer.
Holland is an agnostic who loved dinosaurs and ancient civilizations as a lad. He went to Northern Iraq after ISIS was finally deposed during the Trump administration, and he visited a Yazidi village where all the men had been murdered, many by crucifixion. He wrote Dominion as a result of having mulled over how for ISIS, the cross was still an instrument of torture and death, whereas for Westerners, the Cross is a symbol of victory over brutality. That difference made him rethink his childhood fascination with the Greek and Roman Empires, which he now realizes were very brutal places lacking in any real morality. In Dominion Holland writes that Christianity has laid the foundation for nearly all of the ethical and moral ideas we have now, and that even in post-Christian Britain where he is from, Christianity undergirds how people see "rights" and "obligations" even if they are not religious. Holland also has an excellent podcast on Spotify with his historian/author/friend Dominic Sandbrook, called "The Rest is History", in which they weekly talk about subjects that a history nerd such as myself simply must immerse himself in. It is a podcast full of humor, understated English wit and previously unknown facts that I highly recommend. They very frequently interview authors who have new books out on any number of interesting historical subjects.
Anyway, thanks, Perfessor.
Sharkman

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The best option for original books would be Tacitus or Suetonius. Very lively and readable. Suetonius did The Twelve Caesars, which is a series of imperial biographies that are a fun read (be sure to get the Robert Graves translation).
Tacitus' shorter works are Agricola (a biography) and Germania, which is basically a tourist guide to Germany.
I think THE BEST Roman book is The Histories by Tacitus, which is about the Year of the Four Emperors. The pacing and structure is superb, and that's probably why it survived. I'm told that Tacitus' Latin style is also the best evah.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 24, 2022 09:24 AM (llXky)

+++++

I started Quo Vadis last night, sad to say that I never read it before. The translation is smooth and easy to read, and it has plenty of footnotes to let you know about the terminology and actual Romans mentioned.
I am intrigued at how the Romans made use of the 1619 projects and made slavery sound so quotidien.
Posted by: CN The First at April 24, 2022 09:29 AM (ONvIw)

+++++

I would recommend The Twelve Caesars by Suetonius (121 AD), translated by Robert Graves as a good starting point. Also, Gladius by Guy de la Bedoyere. It depends on what you find interesting whether it's the military/government or the daily life of the average citizen.
Posted by: RetsgtRN at April 24, 2022 09:33 AM (NVtgT)

Comment: You may notice a common thread in today's Moron Recommendations. Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you. I'm a dabbler, at best, but I do find it interesting. It's hard not to notice the parallels in the collapse of the Roman Empire and our own American nation. Hmmm. It's almost as if the saying, "Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it" was a portent or warning for future generations. Rome collapsed over 1,500 years ago, but we still learn from it even today. BTW, for my money, the best Roman historical documentary is the Asterix and Obelix comic book series by Goscinny and Uderzo.

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE!

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That's about all I have for this week. Thank you for all of your kind words regarding my Sunday Morning Book Thread. This is a very special place. You are very special people (in all the best ways!). The kindness, generosity, and wisdom of the Moron Horde knows no bounds. Let's keep reading!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, reading recommendations, or writing projects that you'd like to see on the Sunday Morning Book Thread, you can send them to perfessor dot squirrel at-sign gmail dot com. Your feedback is always appreciated! You can also take a virtual tour of OUR library at libib.com/u/perfessorsquirrel. Since I added sections for AoSHQ, I now consider it OUR library, rather than my own personal fiefdom...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 04-24-22 (hat tip: vmom stabby stabby stabamillion) (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

(Huggy Squirrel says, "The town librarian did it!")

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Tolle Lege

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:00 AM (2JoB8)

2 Still on the David Eddings Belgariad series. Too bad you can not get the followup series on the Kindle in the US. I tried to get it from Amazon in Great Britain, it would not let me.

Posted by: Vic at May 01, 2022 09:01 AM (mZwKe)

3 I presume 'who dis' is Suetonius?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:02 AM (2JVJo)

4 hiya

Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:02 AM (arJlL)

5 Well pick up I did
Got soft cover The Russian Revolution by Richard Pipes,
800 pages
Other possible pick up is Laptop from Hell, so anyone read it?
Maybe next

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:03 AM (2JoB8)

6 Another great Tom Holland book is Millenium, which is his look at the world of 1000 AD.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:03 AM (2JVJo)

7 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:04 AM (7EjX1)

8 Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you.

I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:04 AM (y7DUB)

9 I don't think the pants guy owns a weedwhacker (if you catch my drift....)

Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:04 AM (arJlL)

10
g'mornin', book-ish 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at May 01, 2022 09:04 AM (DUIap)

11 Free Bill Cosby!

Nice pants.

The Who Dis is Hillary, A Self Portrait.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 01, 2022 09:05 AM (R/m4+)

12 I finished my Excalibur comics (Marvel) and decided to keep only the ones written by Warren Ellis in the early '90s. Gawd, those were from nearly 30 years ago.

Recent commentary disfavors the run because Ellis treated women inappropriately at the time he was writing it. (I didn't bother to look up the details.) He set up a May-December romance -- OK, a sexual relationship was implied -- between Kitty Pryde, who joined the X-Men at 14, and Peter Wisdom, who was about 10 years her senior. He wrote her as a young adult and not still a teenager. Current critics say Wisdom, a nasty Brit, was his Marty Sue.

I liked the run then, and I still do. I disagree that, in mainstream comics, the first romance for young people has to be the only one. Teenage Peter Parker went through a string of girlfriends!

For me, Pryde and Wisdom were THE power couple in comics of the '90s. I'm sorry that subsequent writers ended the relationship. The danger of corporate comics.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:05 AM (Om/di)

13 Also regarding comics, the legendary artist Neal Adams died this past week. He was 80. I have reprints of his X-Men and Avengers stories. I say again, I wish comics could have had the artists of the Bronze Age, the writers of the '80s, and the printing technology of today.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:06 AM (Om/di)

14 I'm re-reading Edwin O'Connor's The Last Hurrah (the movie was on TCM the other day). I've always liked the book, though O'Connor writes in a lengthy, discursive style that hasn't aged well and - at least in Hurrah - the book is better in it's set-pieces, such as Knocko Minahan's wake or the dismissal of Johnnie Boyle.

I've never really liked the movie; I find Spencer Tracy off-putting and the original book is so sprawling that it's difficult to make an adaptation. The movie has its pleasures, though to me it's only a shadow of the book.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:07 AM (2JVJo)

15 I read Network Effect by Martha Wells. This is the fifth book in the Murderbot series, and the first that is a full-length novel. The plot doesn't move along as fast as in the novellas, but the introspection and humor of Murderbot is there along with an interesting story.

Posted by: Zoltan at May 01, 2022 09:07 AM (/qOe8)

16 That pic of Peter's library is incredible.

Posted by: dantesed at May 01, 2022 09:07 AM (88xKn)

17 Imagine I'm a Super-Villain. Your Arch-Nemesis.

Can you guess my super-power?

Posted by: The Disheveled Mis-Shelver at May 01, 2022 09:09 AM (sReZj)

18 Finally broke into the top 20 comments!

Another life goal met.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:09 AM (Om/di)

19 Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you.

I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt

Hoot ?

Bob ?

Debbie ?

Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:11 AM (arJlL)

20 Book-related current news:
Hunter Biden's laptop has revealed a lot, including the depths to which Joe Biden seemed intertwined with his son Hunter's business, his accounts, and his business partners.

But the laptop has also revealed how they wanted to keep his involvement in the business on the down-low, and Tony Bobulinski has confirmed that. That would suggest that they knew they were doing something wrong and/or doing things they didn't want people to know about. The emails referred to Joe Biden by various codenames including "Celtic" and "the big guy."

One of the other things that the email revealed was another alias of Joe Biden's, even when he contacted his son and others in the emails seen on the laptop. The pseudonym he went by might make one wonder. He used the name "Peter Henderson" -- the name of the fictional Soviet KGB spy in the novels of Tom Clancy. The name was connected to his email "67stingray", which references the Corvette that Biden prizes.

Can we ask why Joe Biden is using the name of a Soviet spy, and what that might portend?

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 09:12 AM (UHVv4)

21 One selling reason for getting Russian Revolution was a book review mentioning Pipes analysis was it was a Coup by the intelligentsia and nothing for the common man.
History does rhyme often and we are reliving the Russian Revolution I fear.

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:13 AM (2JoB8)

22 Worked this week on a couple of projects for the Teeny Publishing Bidness, but managed to get some work done on the next Luna City installment. My daughter (co-writer on the series) and I want to wrap it up at twelve volumes since a couple of long story arcs will conclude at that point ... and once those arcs end ... well, unsatisfactory to keep the narrative going.
Unless I have another major inspiration...

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at May 01, 2022 09:14 AM (xnmPy)

23 I don't trust Suetonius. It's like basing your knowledge of American history on the works of Kitty Kelly.

Was Tiberius an old perv? Suetonius is the only source. Otherwise his unpopularity seems to come from two factors: 1) being a tightwad -- not a bad feature when you're running an empire, and 2) not being Augustus, which is a problem most people have.

Was Caligula a loon? Maybe. Or was that the excuse the military coup that overthrew him used?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:14 AM (QZxDR)

24 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (Om/di)

25 andycanuck- too cute by half

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (2JoB8)

26 I know virtually nothing about Roman history.

But that was like 200 years ago, amirite?

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (EZebt)

27 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?
Posted by: Weak Geek

PlumbDumb.

Plum fer short.

Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:16 AM (arJlL)

28 Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you.

I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt

Yeah, monkeys are the worst.

What'd he do? Throw feces at your history books?

Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 09:17 AM (5NkmN)

29 yo wut sup

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (yrol0)

30 In the link to the Victorian/Edwardian hotel:

****** was arrested by officers Friday evening after his car had broken down on the highway about one-half mile west of Pomeroy.
[The arrested youth's name was edited out in 2022 by your editor.]

It was garrett, wasn't it.

Posted by: m at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (2Q+cC)

31 @27 --

That's an insult to Wodehouse.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (Om/di)

32 I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:04 AM (y7DUB)
---
Gibbon has his moments though. He hits his stride early on, and I think an abridgement is the best way to experience him.

The biggest weakness is his need to let the world know how much smarter he is than all those superstitious Church Fathers. Even in his own time, he got a lot of grief from people who saw through his arrogant nonsense and let him know all about it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (llXky)

33 I should prolly save this for the Food Thread, but my stove works better when I turn it on....

Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (arJlL)

34 Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:14 AM (QZxDR)

Wasn't Suetonius a secretary to one the early emperors and thus had access to documents about Rome?

Posted by: dantesed at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (88xKn)

35 MP4 I'm part way through your latest novel. I have a question about the movie Intolerance. I've seen conflicting accounts of how well it was received and its box office take. Was it a dud or was it panned because of blowback from Birth of Nation and people hating on DW Griffith?

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at May 01, 2022 09:19 AM (2NHgQ)

36 Tom Holland really is an excellent historian. Dominion is great, The Shadow of the Sword (about early Islam) is interesting reading. Rubicon is probably his best book, and is guaranteed to make you nervous about contemporary politics.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:20 AM (QZxDR)

37 Code Name: Dipstick. Cromulently respectful in my eyes.

Posted by: klaftern at May 01, 2022 09:20 AM (taPSh)

38 Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you.

I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt

I prefer Greek history. I turned to Quo Vadis, after having read one of Sienkiewicz lesser known works. Not reading Polish, I simply can't tell if the easy conversational tone of this translation is completely accurate, but it makes ancient Rome come to life, and of course, it's fictional ancient Rome.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 09:21 AM (ONvIw)

39 History does rhyme often and we are reliving the Russian Revolution I fear.
Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:13 AM (2JoB

The Russian Revolution happened in the middle of WW1 when the krauts gave Lenin safe passageway from Zurich to Petrograd in a sealed railroad car. There were so many times Lenin was almost snuffed that it was almost like an accidental revolution. Plus the czar was very unpopular.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:21 AM (y7DUB)

40 If you enjoy fictionalized histories and want to learn something about the end of the Roman Republic, I highly recommend the three-book series by Robert Harris, with Cicero as the central character - Imperium, Conspirata, and Dictator.

Posted by: Gref at May 01, 2022 09:21 AM (AMIL/)

41 I don't trust Suetonius. It's like basing your knowledge of American history on the works of Kitty Kelly.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:14 AM (QZxDR)
---
Tacitus correlates some of what Suetonius says and there are other records that substantiate the fact that Caligula was a piece of work.

Keep in mind that Suetonius is the only source that *survived* and the likely reason was that he was considered a trusted and valued source. We know that Claudius wrote a memoir, and there were other records that Suetonius' contemporaries could check his work against.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:22 AM (llXky)

42 Those pants are fine. I would wear them to barbecue at a block party.

Posted by: A. Blockhead at May 01, 2022 09:23 AM (vrz2I)

43 Reading a book recommended here a few weeks ago: "The Socialist Phenomenon" by Igor Shafarevich (foreword by Solzhenitsyn). It's fascinating. Thank you.

Posted by: Ordinary American at May 01, 2022 09:24 AM (H8QX8)

44 I should prolly save this for the Food Thread, but my stove works better when I turn it on....
Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (arJlL)
===
Don't need your stove to sous vide.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (EZebt)

45 My mind is wandering in odd directions today.

This discussion of ancient historians makes me wonder when and where the first bookstore opened.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (Om/di)

46 Yay bookzzz!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (5IT5y)

47 There is a humble bundle for Terry Moore graphic novels, 45 books $35.

Another one for European authored scify & fantasy comics for $25.

33 books about helping you to write for $18.

9 volumes of image comics for $25, things like spawn and witchblade, etc..

Normal stuff they normally have like Maker books and WH40K grim dark books, programming books for the budding journalist.

They also have some really spatacularly gay, Japanese Yaoi novels if thats your want. I've seen before that these are read mostly by young Japanese women, teen girls, etc.. So they are kind of the hetero female's version of busty lesbian porn. Sure ok. Whatever floats your boat.

Posted by: banana Dream at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (0fVbu)

48 Suetonius was one of Hadrian's secretaries, and did run the archives, but that doesn't mean he was telling the truth about people who all died before he was born. Would a Federal official in 2022 really be any better a source about the Roosevelt administration than anyone else? And if you knew that official's party affiliation, wouldn't it make you more skeptical?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:26 AM (QZxDR)

49 BTW all those green and gold volumes are Scotts' stamp albums . A lot of loot there unless they are collections of third world garbage 'commemoratives' and t'opicals' , if so nothing but wasted shelf space'.

Posted by: f j hoenemeyer at May 01, 2022 09:26 AM (M2OgO)

50 The biggest weakness is his need to let the world know how much smarter he is than all those superstitious Church Fathers. Even in his own time, he got a lot of grief from people who saw through his arrogant nonsense and let him know all about it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (llXky)

Gibbon is Exhibit A of the perils of an autodidact.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:26 AM (y7DUB)

51 MP4 I'm part way through your latest novel. I have a question about the movie Intolerance. I've seen conflicting accounts of how well it was received and its box office take. Was it a dud or was it panned because of blowback from Birth of Nation and people hating on DW Griffith?
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at May 01, 2022 09:19 AM (2NHgQ)

I hope you're enjoying the book! As for Intolerance, it cost half a million to make and made $4 million in box office (equivalent to about $98 million today, costing $8 million to make). So it did recoup its costs, but audiences found the shift among viewpoints confusing and its nearly 4 hour running time hard to last through. It wasn't as successful as Birth, but nothing could be.

Intolerance wasn't a complete flop (as I hint in my novel, using author privilege), but it is a lengthy dud, IMO, save for the Babylon sequence.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:27 AM (2JVJo)

52 Wasn't Suetonius a secretary to one the early emperors and thus had access to documents about Rome?

Posted by: dantesed at May 01, 2022 09:18 AM (88xKn)
---
No, later Emperors, which is how he got access to the earlier items.

This discussion highlights one of the problems with modern researchers who want to challenge ancient sources, particularly the Bible. They highlight problems with the text, inconsistencies between surviving copies and try to come up with alternative interpretations or question if the whole thing was just made up.

Thing is, there's a REASON these books survived, and it wasn't idle curiosity. When they were written, people had first-hand knowledge of the events and if they were crap, no one would have bothered. Instead, they were highly valued and even though complete works are rare, we do have lots of fragmentary references to other people (who knew a lot more than we did) who held this sources to be excellent.

Which is why they survived to reach us. Again, consider the time and expense of copying a book back then. Only the most prized works got that effort.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:27 AM (llXky)

53 [The arrested youth's name was edited out in 2022 by your editor.]

Yeah, I noticed that as well. What's the point of redacting the name of someone arrested in 1958? I mean, he may have been a juvie at the time but it's not like his guilt was in question.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 09:27 AM (nfrXX)

54 It's a crying shame that we don't have Claudius's histories. Even if they were self-serving and full of lies they'd be a valuable insight into what he wanted people to think.

Though the Emperor I really wish had written a memoir is Vespasian.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:28 AM (QZxDR)

55 BTW BTW a similar but better library is from Marathon Man , Dustin Hoffman's library . Dustin as grad student at Columbia , those would be serious books on serious topics , Columbia before it got woke by Mattress Girl and friends

Posted by: f j hoenemeyer at May 01, 2022 09:28 AM (M2OgO)

56 This discussion of ancient historians makes me wonder when and where the first bookstore opened.
Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (Om/di)

Off the top of my head, I would suspect one of the first would have been in London at the time of printer William Caxton in the 1470s.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (2JVJo)

57 There were so many times Lenin was almost snuffed that it was almost like an accidental revolution. Plus the czar was very unpopular.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:21 AM (y7DUB)

I always wondered how history would have turned out if Lenin, Stalin etc. had simply been shot when they were in the hands of authorities. Hell, Stalin was a bank robber. Too bad he didn't catch a bullet.

More coffee.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (R/m4+)

58 I thought the "Who 'Dis" was Virgil?

I'm nearly finished with Taylor's _Principles_of_Scientific Management_ and will try to pick up both Henri Fayol's _General_and_Industrial_Managment_ and _Kouzes' & Posner's _The_Truth_About_Leadership_ soon thereafter.

Enjoy what's left of the weekend! I'm off to finish a paper I started at 10:00 PM last night.

Posted by: SPinRH_F-16 at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (DSTSG)

59 Last week I mentioned that I had started MP4's "The Stuff That Freams Are Made Of" and was enjoying it. Well, I finished it and can say it just kept getting better. I felt immersed in the era from the first pages. (No current attitudes to get in the way.) The characters aren't stereotypes; their personal stories and motivations flow and develop during the book. And the pace of the story, never slow, speeds up as the story unfolds. The ending is exciting, satisfying, and poignant. I haven't enjoyed new fiction this much in a long time. No kidding. This is seriously fun reading.

Yes, I submitted a review on Amazon but it hadn't appeared as of this morning.

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (7EjX1)

60 Capt Hate that was my perception too from past reading, Pipes started 1899 and so far is going through the intelligentsia rabble rousers, exactly what we have going on.
The Universities Marxists sucked in the unions

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (2JoB8)

61 I finished "Never" by Ken Follett.

I was half way through and I still didn't like any of the characters.

Loved the ending.

Too much bs. Overall? I only read it because I loved "Pillars of the Earth" and "The Evening and the Morning."

I am probably done with Ken Follett.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 01, 2022 09:31 AM (lKAqb)

62 Over Easter season I read a book that I've had on my list for too long.
"The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.
Mr. Strobel wrote this book while a Chicago lawman around 1981. He was a non-believer, a secular humanist, but took it upon himself to present facts and evidence as if he was in a court of law. This he does in fine fashion and comes out the other side as a convert. Highly recommended.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 09:31 AM (jTmQV)

63 Suetonius was one of Hadrian's secretaries, and did run the archives, but that doesn't mean he was telling the truth about people who all died before he was born. Would a Federal official in 2022 really be any better a source about the Roosevelt administration than anyone else? And if you knew that official's party affiliation, wouldn't it make you more skeptical?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:26 AM (QZxDR)
---
His contemporaries could check his work against other records, which we know existed. Publishing is not like today, where propaganda is cranked out for the mass market in cheap paperbacks.

Suetonius' work was clearly a compilation, which is why it was so popular and survived.

Again, Tacitus has quite a bit to say about Julio-Claudian malfeasance. It's not just Suetonius.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:31 AM (llXky)

64 Love Pete's library/man cave. It's almost big enough to hold all our books and my ancillary stuff.

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:33 AM (7EjX1)

65
Latin is a dead language,
As dead as it can be.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:33 AM (jYQlA)

66 Thanks MP4. Wikipedia (I know, Wikipedia) says it ruined Griffith financially and he never recovered. Your explanation helped.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (2NHgQ)

67 Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (7EjX1)

**blushes** You are much, much too kind. I am so glad you liked the book, and thank you for the review - I'm looking forward to it!

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (2JVJo)

68 Tried reading a Jane Kirkpatrick book, "All Together in One Place." Ugh. Hated the writing but was interested in the story. Couldn't do it. I enjoy historical fiction for reading I don't have to think too hard about. Anybody got any suggestions for an author?

Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (BjGT6)

69 Latin is a dead language,
As dead as it can be.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:33 AM (jYQlA)

My grandsons are learning it. I'm very pleased.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (ONvIw)

70 Latin is a dead language,
As dead as it can be.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:33 AM (jYQlA)
===
Yet Quebecois persists.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (EZebt)

71
First it killed the Romans...

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:35 AM (jYQlA)

72 >>> I am probably done with Ken Follett.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 01, 2022 09:31 AM (lKAqb)

I tapped out after PotE. Oh good, finally, a writer that revels in the darker side of humanity, cruelty and nihilism, I mean there's so few...[eye roll]

Posted by: banana Dream at May 01, 2022 09:35 AM (0fVbu)

73 I always wondered how history would have turned out if Lenin, Stalin etc. had simply been shot when they were in the hands of authorities. Hell, Stalin was a bank robber. Too bad he didn't catch a bullet.

More coffee.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (R/m4+)

Stalin seemed to be much more street smart than Lenin; he didn't make his blatant move to coopt the revolution until Lenin had more than one massive strokes and Koba had his pieces in place. You can almost picture Lenin thinking "oh fuck" as it played out and he was helpless to do a damn thing to countermand it.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:36 AM (y7DUB)

74 Latin is a dead language,
As dead as it can be.

That's the beauty of it. It doesn't change.

Ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostae.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at May 01, 2022 09:36 AM (lKAqb)

75
And now it's killing me!

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:37 AM (jYQlA)

76 I do enjoy reading Roman history but I also have many other genres I enjoy. I’m currently reading “Pyrates” by George MacDonald Fraser of Flashman fame. It’s quite funny as would be expected coming from him. I think it was recommended here a while back.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at May 01, 2022 09:37 AM (NVtgT)

77 Okay, some writing/book news. I'm working my way through From Emperor to Citizen, which is Pu-Yi's autobiography. Very interesting, it's got lots of detail about palace life and the guy comes across as a petulant, spineless squish.

Yes, the Chi-Coms had the final edit, but it's still interesting. The movie The Last Emperor follows it fairly closely, but so far I've one massive error in the film: when Pu Yi is forced out of the Forbidden City at gunpoint, it is by Nationalist troops, which in the film are shown as Kuomintang. False. He was moved out by a small detachment of "National Army" troops - soldiers of a warlord.

It's close enough to be an honest mistake, except that every reference in the film to the KMT and Chiang Kai-shek is a negative one. Obviously that's what you get when you get PRC cooperation.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:37 AM (llXky)

78 Weekly Book Report:
Stayed up way too late teo nights reading Brandon Sanderson first 2 Mistborn books.
Also just got hold of an ebook version of the last book in the SPQR series from a library

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:37 AM (5IT5y)

79 Biden's Secret Service codename?
Depends.

Posted by: PabloD at May 01, 2022 09:38 AM (pU8Zi)

80
Rimshot.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:38 AM (jYQlA)

81 Claudius crushed a coup in thr senate, thats why tacitus and suetonius painted him as a fool.

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (hMlTh)

82 Morning Bookists, hello all, Thanks Squirrel!

Question for y'all, my esteemed and steamed colleagues:

To follow up the raging success of my first book (Combat Engineer, which has sold almost several copies!), I am trying to convince a friend to let me write about his family's service in WWII. And I want to change publisher.

For a military-themed book, what publishers do you recommend?

Thanks all.

Posted by: goatexchange at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (APPN8)

83 Hairyback Guy at May 01, 2022

re:Lenin, Stalin etc being killed before coming to power

Don't you think someone else would have risen up to basically do the same types of things? I look at what they have done and think the desire to control people, kill people, be a god-like person/ruler is a natural consequence of our sinful nature. It just happened that these particular people made it to the top.

Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (BjGT6)

84 43 Reading a book recommended here a few weeks ago: "The Socialist Phenomenon" by Igor Shafarevich (foreword by Solzhenitsyn). It's fascinating. Thank you.
Posted by: Ordinary American at May 01, 2022 09:24 AM (H8QX

Here is part of the forward by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KBJTLbwV3FV8YvE26

One sentence:

Socialism seeks to reduce human personality to its most primitive levels and to extinguish the highest, most complex, and G D-like aspects of human individuality.

Hmm JUST LIKE CRT!!!

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 09:40 AM (yrol0)

85 I am intrigued at how the Romans made use of the 1619 project and made slavery sound so quotidian.

Posted by: CN The First

Douglas Murray's new book "The War on the West" discusses this very thing (how the trans-Atlantic African slave trade is viewed ONLY as whites subjugating blacks, when it was nothing of the sort):

https://tinyurl.com/The-War-On-The-West

Murray was on Rogan's show as well as Jordan Peterson's last week (his book dropped on 4/26):

https://tinyurl.com/Douglas-Murray-JR
https://tinyurl.com/Douglas-Murray-JP

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:40 AM (8gxrg)

86 I finished To A Daffodil, Life on an Oregon Flower Farm 1937-1978 by Ione Reed. It is a follow up book to Pioneering in Oregon's Coast Range.

Ione and her husband Ike bought a run down farm outside of Mapleton Oregon, and after the war decided to go into growing and selling flower bulbs by mail, and eventually discovered the market was in cut daffodils for the flower shops, selling cut flowers from San Francisco to Seattle, dealing with vagaries of the market, climate and the local logging companies.
When the market was good Ike worked solely on the farm, when the market was bad, Ike found additional work off the farm. They were committed to making the farm work.
Ione also wrote an article in the Eugene Register-Guard's Sunday Supplement, Emerald Empire, for years until the paper decided to print the national Parade supplement instead. She wrote about camping and wildflower hikes in the Northwest, and had published a couple of books of her articles.
When market for cut flowers collapsed, she went into consulting on landscape architecture until she retired to the coast.
Ione was the sort of person who would do something, and if it didn't work, she would do something else.

Posted by: Klandis122@cyberis.net at May 01, 2022 09:41 AM (xhaym)

87 Heres a link to the PDF file of the entire book:

https://tinyurl.com/yckup6wr

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 09:41 AM (yrol0)

88 Latin is not dead
hoc modo olet ridiculam

Posted by: Guy who relates everything to something Zappa said at May 01, 2022 09:41 AM (vrz2I)

89 Thanks MP4. Wikipedia (I know, Wikipedia) says it ruined Griffith financially and he never recovered. Your explanation helped.
Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at May 01, 2022 09:34 AM (2NHgQ)

It didn't ruin him, per se, but it didn't help. When I mention that the LAFD ordered him to destroy the set and he couldn't afford to, that's the truth. Griffith's 'ruin' was, in a large way, self-administered, as he took a very long time to make a film and his storytelling technique (along with his choice of material) grew more and more ossified as time went on. Movies changed, but Griffith didn't.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:41 AM (2JVJo)

90 The town librarian, in the stacks, with the Dewey decimal system.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 09:41 AM (KAi1n)

91 Is there a book on how to learn Latin? I can only make out some words.

Posted by: dantesed at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (88xKn)

92 Stalin was blunter lenin was smoother remember the cheka was dzerzinskys brainchild

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (hMlTh)

93 It killed off all the Romans
And now it's killing me!

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (QZxDR)

94 WOW on Pete ZAH's lieberry!!!
And on their stately manor! Do they still take B&B guests?

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (5IT5y)

95 The Universities Marxists sucked in the unions
Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 09:29 AM (2JoB

Which was helped by the shortages and widespread discontent of a world war being poorly executed. Just a continual series of clusterfucks...

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (y7DUB)

96 83 Hairyback Guy at May 01, 2022

re:Lenin, Stalin etc being killed before coming to power

Don't you think someone else would have risen up to basically do the same types of things? I look at what they have done and think the desire to control people, kill people, be a god-like person/ruler is a natural consequence of our sinful nature. It just happened that these particular people made it to the top.
Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (BjGT6)

Peterson comments on this very subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXBjVau1w7Y

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (yrol0)

97 Vmom, that was last week for me. Waiting for book 3 from the library. The Mistborn series is a bit easier read than The Stormlight Archives but his characters still take on a life of their own. You know who they are almost from the start. There is a scene in book 2 where Wayne goes to the Temple of the Common Man to pray that had me laughing out loud.
I think Sanderson is brilliant and truly unique.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (Y+l9t)

98 Don't you think someone else would have risen up to basically do the same types of things? I look at what they have done and think the desire to control people, kill people, be a god-like person/ruler is a natural consequence of our sinful nature. It just happened that these particular people made it to the top.

Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (BjGT6)
---
Hayek has noted that when normal restraints are removed from political power, the side that fights dirtiest always wins. This is why people whining that "if only things had gone differently" are wrong because the same ruthlessness that creates massacres is necessary to gain power in the first place.

History proves this to be correct.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:42 AM (llXky)

99 Got almostno reading done except for finishing up The Disappearing Spoon so I could loan it to a friend. My son gave me a book called Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. I know nothing about it and the introduction isn't promising but I will give it a shot based on the source.

Posted by: who knew at May 01, 2022 09:43 AM (4I7VG)

100 I'm in a book reading quandary. I've bought a bunch of books about what's going on right now, but start them and can't finish them, because we're in the middle of it. But I can't read anything about recent history, because it all seems so irrelevant.

And I'm not interested in fiction. So...

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (NWBBy)

101 It just happened that these particular people made it to the top.
Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (BjGT6)
===
Yes all these folks were surrounded by like-minded individuals.

If Strasser had became Fuhrer or Trotsky Chairman, history would not have diverged much.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (EZebt)

102 Another great Tom Holland book is Millenium, which is his look at the world of 1000 AD.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing

I think sometimes the book is called "Millennium" and sometimes called "The Forge of Christendom" on Amazon. The version that downloaded to my Kindle was the latter, and his wiki bio shows the former as the title.

Odd, that.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (8gxrg)

103 Who Dis? My guess is Tacitus

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (5IT5y)

104 @68 --

First name that comes to mind regarding historical fiction is George MacDonald Frasier, for his Flashman tales.

Then there is Max Allen Collins, for his "historical tragedy" murder mysteries. His Nate Heller books also draw on historical events, such as the murder of Huey Long.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:46 AM (Om/di)

105 Why would Lenin have given a turd about Stalin? It's not as if Lenin actually cared about making communism live up to its "lofty" ideals.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 09:46 AM (KAi1n)

106 Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:40 AM (8gxrg)

Thanks for the recommendations.

Sadly the West is engaged in a civil war as well as outside pressures. People like Garland, Jen Rubin, Mayorkas, and now the odious Jankowicz are every bit as bad as the invasion forces. It's interesting that the Roman Empire is today's theme.

After I finish Quo Vadis, I'm going to try to find Sienkiewicz' Without Dogma in a used hardcopy. I downloaded the e-book.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 09:46 AM (ONvIw)

107 I've bought a bunch of books about what's going on right now, but start them and can't finish them, because we're in the middle of it. But I can't read anything about recent history, because it all seems so irrelevant.

And I'm not interested in fiction. So...
Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (NWBBy

Same problem with current era books.
Aside from fantasy and historical fiction, I find history soothing

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (5IT5y)

108 Don't you think someone else would have risen up to basically do the same types of things? I look at what they have done and think the desire to control people, kill people, be a god-like person/ruler is a natural consequence of our sinful nature. It just happened that these particular people made it to the top.
Posted by: TecumsehTea at May 01, 2022 09:39 AM (BjGT6)

Yes, a leadership vacuum had to be filled by someone. The White Russians could have done it if they weren't so fucking blind to the populist support for ditching the old ways of doing things.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (y7DUB)

109 BTW, for my money, the best Roman historical documentary is the Asterix and Obelix comic book series by Goscinny and Uderzo.

What's funny is that I probably wouldn't have been interested in Roman history as a yute if I hadn't first enjoyed reading Asterix and Obelix*.

*Okay, that's bullshit, as my folks regularly found me sleeping face down in the Encyclopedia Britannica when I was 3.5 y/o.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (8gxrg)

110 Reading The Spy and The Traitor by Ben McIntyre.
True story of KBG spy Gordievsky who worked with M16 during height of the Cold War. Fascinating reading and insights into espionage back then. Particularly interesting are the insights into how Reagan and Thatcher used Gordievsky's understanding of the Russian mindset, an understanding that is sorely lacking today.

Posted by: Ziba at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (S1hrL)

111 Douglas Murray's new book "The War on the West" discusses this very thing (how the trans-Atlantic African slave trade is viewed ONLY as whites subjugating blacks, when it was nothing of the sort):

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:40 AM (8gxrg)
---
About three years ago a middle school teacher in my old school district got in deep trouble for having an assignment that required students to examine slavery from all sides, including the economic benefits it provided. This assignment had been given for 20 years without incident.

But because we've raised a generation of Red Guards, parents got involved and it become a local news story and NATURALLY the school board turned on the guy for daring to make the kids do some actual critical thinking.

As a follow-up, last week another teacher used the N-word as an example in class and the students naturally walked out, and the district groveled because intelligent discussion is now banned. School is a daycare for the soon to be unemployed Reserve Army of the Proletariat.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:48 AM (llXky)

112 Breaking news: Google Translate works with Latin.

I think this "internet" thing might really catch on...

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:48 AM (jYQlA)

113 Yes, a leadership vacuum had to be filled by someone. The White Russians could have done it if they weren't so fucking blind to the populist support for ditching the old ways of doing things.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (y7DUB)

Well they didn't have to consult the public, much like the empire in DC.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 09:48 AM (ONvIw)

114 Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (NWBBy

Same problem with current era books.
Aside from fantasy and historical fiction, I find history soothing
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (5IT5y)

Doesn't stop me from buying the books though. I find myself wanting to support the authors.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (NWBBy)

115 Oh, and I have been reading "Alamo in the Ardennes" online, for free. Its another conventional Bulge history, not overly impressive, in my view.

Posted by: goatexchange at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (APPN8)

116 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?
Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (Om/di)

Broken Arrow

Posted by: Klandis122@cyberis.net at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (xhaym)

117 Germania, which is basically a tourist guide to Germany.

-
Author Christopher B. Krebs argues in his book, A Most Dangerous Book: Tacitus's Germania from the Roman Empire to the Third Reich, that this book, which contains many factual errors, is the root of the idea that the Germans are special people destined to rule.

https://amzn.to/3Ks1z49

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (FVME7)

118 Dammit, I knew "Frasier" didn't look right!

I have a Flashman trilogy just three feet from where I'm lying, but I couldn't stir myself to get up at check the spine.

It's Fraser.

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (Om/di)

119 I think hitler uniquely gets Germany into WW2. The rest of them, even the generals, were like today's Gop: fundraising off the iniquities but not gonna do a damn thing about them. Hitler meant what he said.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (KAi1n)

120 Obliquely related, also over Easter I finished "The Jewish War" by Josephus.
Josephus' account is the most complete we have of the Palestinian period which encompasses the ministry of Jesus, and beyond, including the sack of Jerusalem and the unpleasantness at Masada.
Josephus, himself a Jew, tilts to the Roman point of view and all are of the opinion that he was paid by Rome for his effort.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (jTmQV)

121 Slavery?

Outlawed in Saudi Arabia 1962.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (EZebt)

122 I finished "The Truth and Beauty" by Andrew Klavan. It's an account of how, in his desire to better understand the Gospels and Christ's meanings and life, he found resonance in the works of Romantic literature of the late 1700s and early 1800s. This was mostly poetry but also Mary Shelley. It deals with the importance of imagination as a way for humans to perceive and appreciate creation in an era of growing secularism and destruction of societal norms. (Sound familiar?) He found their writings to be a push back against such matters and a way to appreciate the teachings and life of Jesus, both holy and human.

Klavan's writing is lively and clear, not dully pedantic. But this is a complex topic with roots going back to antiquity and branches reaching out to today. It ties in with other reading, especially by CS Lewis and Malcolm Guite, that also discusses the human imagination as a means to understand and participate in creation. Definitely worth reading.

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:50 AM (7EjX1)

123 The plot doesn't move along as fast as in the novellas, but the introspection and humor of Murderbot is there along with an interesting story.

Posted by: Zoltan

Hmmmm, I've been thinking of jumping into that series, as I have been bereft since The Expanse closed out with Leviathan Falls late last year.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:51 AM (8gxrg)

124 If Strasser had became Fuhrer or Trotsky Chairman, history would not have diverged much.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 09:44 AM (EZebt)

I don't know that Gregor Strasser would have started a war or the Holocaust. The same with Goering. Himmler and Heydrich, OTOH, would definitely had the ovens running.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 09:51 AM (2JVJo)

125 Strassee was all for nationalizatiins and thats not what the magnates who funded the nazis wanted

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 09:51 AM (hMlTh)

126 Hitler meant what he said.
Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 09:49 AM (KAi1n)

Ya know who else meant what he said?

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 09:51 AM (yrol0)

127 Isn't that something Sun Tazoo said?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 01, 2022 09:52 AM (vuisn)

128 "Ya know who else meant what he said?"

Oh I know! Horton the elephant.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 09:53 AM (vrz2I)

129 Sun Tazoo used to tour with Earth Wind and Fire back in the day, IIRC.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 09:53 AM (jYQlA)

130 If kornilev had not been hampered by kerensky no lenin the bolsheviks would have been crushed

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 09:54 AM (hMlTh)

131 Yes, a leadership vacuum had to be filled by someone. The White Russians could have done it if they weren't so fucking blind to the populist support for ditching the old ways of doing things.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 09:47 AM (y7DUB)
---
The Whites had a lot of problems, not the least of which was that the military itself had been corrupted by cronyism and the need to curry favor for promotion. The Reds were much more ruthless about removing underperformers.

An interesting distinction highlighted by Stanley G. Payne (whose books you should read), is that the Orthodox Church in Tsarist Russia was impotent in the face of revolution. No capability to motivate the masses because it was so closely associated with the Imperial regime. Peasants joined in looting the churches.

In Spain, by contrast, the left's war on the Catholic Church was a key factor in creating resistance to the Popular Front. Mass attendance was low, but the Spanish valued the art and tradition embodied in the Church and seeing the priest that baptized the village children and performed marriages lynched really pissed people off.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 09:54 AM (llXky)

132 Can we ask why Joe Biden is using the name of a Soviet spy, and what that might portend?

Posted by: andycanuck

You can ask, and the truthful answer will be that Paste-Eatin' Joe was a non-stop firehose-like source for Rooskie infiltration into our government since the 70s, and we'll never hear a word about it from the MFM.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:54 AM (8gxrg)

133 TIME's Charlotte Alter explains that free speech means something entirely different now than it used to:

"[F]ree speech" in the 21st century means something very different than it did in the 18th, when the Founders enshrined it in the Constitution. The right to say what you want without being imprisoned is not the same as the right to broadcast disinformation to millions of people on a corporate platform. This nuance seems to be lost on some techno-wizards who see any restriction as the enemy of innovation.

-
It's like how Madison and Jefferson didn't mean AR-15s or Glock semiautomatic pistols when they wrote the first amendment.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 09:54 AM (FVME7)

134 If Hitler was not around we might have gotten someone worse than Hitler. Someone who knew what they were doing.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 09:55 AM (vrz2I)

135 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek

Celtic

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:56 AM (8gxrg)

136 Those pants are fine. I would wear them to barbecue at a block party.
Posted by: A. Blockhead

******

I think that style is very popular in Switzerland, particularly around Interlaken.

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 09:56 AM (kXYt5)

137 Hence a january 6th type narrative had to be created and a dumtz like reed spread it

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 09:57 AM (hMlTh)

138 Currently reading portions of A Companion to JRR Tolkiien by Stuart D. Lee. Mainly because lots of people here talk about LoTR. I'm mostly interested about the origins of Galadriel and Ungoliant. And as I was looking through the various chapters one sentence jumped out. [...] "the Battle of Pellenor Fields; the eucatastrophe of Aragon's unexpected arrival..."

This past week we've been witness to a secular-temporal eucatastrophe; the Fall of Twitter, Major Stronghold of the Woke. Elon Musk's unexpected arrival, the sudden joyous turn of events and sudden joyous moment.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 09:57 AM (QcZeT)

139 "I think that style is very popular in Switzerland, particularly around Interlaken.
Posted by: Muldoon"

That fits.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 09:58 AM (vrz2I)

140 Why would Lenin have given a turd about Stalin? It's not as if Lenin actually cared about making communism live up to its "lofty" ideals.
--------------------------
Picky, picky, picky.

Posted by: zombie leon trotsky at May 01, 2022 09:58 AM (UHVv4)

141 Andrew Klavan, in his attempt to better understand the Gospels and Christianity, taught himself Greek (he said badly) so as to read the oldest versions of the Gospels without 2,000 years of translation and interpretation.

I'm not going to do that, but does anyone know of a good English version of the Gospels based as closely as possible on the original Greek?

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 09:59 AM (7EjX1)

142 Tom Holland really is an excellent historian. Dominion is great, The Shadow of the Sword (about early Islam) is interesting reading. Rubicon is probably his best book, and is guaranteed to make you nervous about contemporary politics.

Posted by: Trimegistus

I really can't recommend his podcast with Dominic Sandbrook more highly. "The Rest is History" on Spotify. They are funny, witty and they bring a shyte-load of new information to each subject, and very often have authors on to explain excellent new works that've been published.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 09:59 AM (8gxrg)

143 Suetonius. I had Latin classes for 3 years in the Catholic school I attended up North. Doubt many highschools have it these days. Not in this country, anyway.

Posted by: docweasel at May 01, 2022 09:59 AM (m8LDo)

144 Now we see why Student Debt is coming up:
According to Catalist data, roughly 43 percent of the 2020 Biden electorate graduated from a four-year college or university. Compare that with 2012, when, according to Pew, just 36 percent of registered Democrats had completed a four-year degree or more. Given that trend, student-loan forgiveness may seem like the classic tale of a political party transferring a valuable benefit to a crucial constituency.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (yrol0)

145 It's like how Madison and Jefferson didn't mean AR-15s or Glock semiautomatic pistols when they wrote the first amendment.

I wonder if there's a name for this particular rhetorical bogusness? That is, analogizing Thing A to Thing B and using your opinion of A to "validate" your opinion of B.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (nfrXX)

146 ...sprinkle powdered sugar over those strawberry-topped Belgian waffles...

******

Just don't spill any on Those Pants,

Wouldn't want to Eggo™ your Legos™!!

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (kXYt5)

147 I wanted to tell you about an author named Tom Holland.

-
His brother is James Holland, a historian of WWII who has written such books as Big Week: The Biggest Air Battle of World War II, Dam Busters, The Battle of Britain, and many others.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (FVME7)

148
This discussion of ancient historians makes me wonder when and where the first bookstore opened.
Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:25 AM (Om/di)

Ur. It was down on Euprhates road where Nabopolassar street runs into the canal, by the stoneworkers' quay. Initially it was a masonry and brick supply warehouse, but then one of the buyers got a real good deal on a load of used bullae and tablets with the idea of selling them as tile.

Posted by: Klandis122@cyberis.net at May 01, 2022 10:01 AM (xhaym)

149 Reed was the chuck todd or chris cilizza of foreigj cirrespondences likewise if batista had just killed fidel in stead of sparing him they probably coul not have recovered.

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 10:01 AM (hMlTh)

150 You people areall way too serious for me. I read to escape the world I read about every day, I want to be transported to some place else. I want complex characters and mysteries to solve. I want to fall asleep wondering what will happen next. I rarely reread books. Too many new ones waiting to be read.
This week I read a book of Reacher short stores by Lee Child called No Middle Name and the newest book in Kelley Armstrong's Rocton series, called The Deepest of Secrets. Think it might be the last book in the series but had a very satisfactory ending.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at May 01, 2022 10:01 AM (Y+l9t)

151 Picky, picky, picky.

Posted by: zombie leon trotsky at May 01, 2022 09:58 AM (UHVv4)
---
It's interesting to dig into the intra-Marxist power struggles. One thing I learned is that anarchism in the 20th Century sense is really libertarian communism.

Instead of using state power to control society, you use corporations - which are supposed to be collectives, but of course someone has to run it, right?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:01 AM (llXky)

152 .sprinkle powdered sugar over those strawberry-topped Belgian waffles...

******

Just don't spill any on Those Pants,

Wouldn't want to Eggo™ your Legos™!!
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (kXYt5)
---
Thread Winner!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 10:02 AM (K5n5d)

153 I wonder if there's a name for this particular rhetorical bogusness? That is, analogizing Thing A to Thing B and using your opinion of A to "validate" your opinion of B.
Posted by: Oddbob

********

Perhaps a form of transference?

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:03 AM (kXYt5)

154 The best option for original books would be Tacitus or Suetonius.

==

Is that a hint ...????

Posted by: runner at May 01, 2022 10:03 AM (V13WU)

155 Good morning, a couple of questions before I head to Home Depot. Is the book Quo Vadis you speak of written by Henri S.? And, I have been out the reading arena for sometime now but started back with the suggestion of Iain Pears. Nice, but would like something with a little more bite to it. I used to read and loved PD James, John Le Carre, Grisham. Read most of Christy's and Steinbeck. The intensity of "In Cold Blood" took me a couple of times to pick up and finish. I thought it well written thou. I will pickup Quo Vadis. But wondering if anyone has read any books co-written by Gene Hackman? Worth a try?
I will look back in a little bit. Enjoy your day.

Posted by: sidney at May 01, 2022 10:04 AM (itAo5)

156 Though the Emperor I really wish had written a memoir is Vespasian.
Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022

***
His son Titus was supposed to have said on his deathbed that he had only one sin he regretted . . . and then didn't tell anybody what it was.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:04 AM (c6xtn)

157 I would say tacitus for the win.

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 10:04 AM (hMlTh)

158 Looks like a monk, not a Roman historian, no ?

Posted by: runner at May 01, 2022 10:04 AM (V13WU)

159 Love Pete's library/man cave. It's almost big enough to hold all our books and my ancillary stuff.

Posted by: JTB

Reminds me of many a used book store of blessed memory.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:05 AM (8gxrg)

160 The acts of reading and writing themselves, for most of human history, have been reserved for the few, scribes and priests, etc.
The Age of Literacy for the majority of humanity has only been within the last thousand years or so. Exceptions abound, but they are a minority.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:05 AM (jTmQV)

161 This past week I read The Mad Scientist's Guide to World Domination. It's an excellent anthology of stories mostly told from the mad scientist's point of view. Some are hilarious, some are black comedy, and a few are deadly serious. It's not all fun and games trying to take over the world.

Good stuff. I enjoy this type of anthology because the authors clearly are having fun with the topic.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 10:05 AM (K5n5d)

162 Its all conjecture, but I did not mean Strasser and Trotsky specifically rather generally as examples of the coterie necessarily surrounding emerging dictators.

People like to shriek "Hitler!" when the list of names of those responsible for hitlerism is long indeed.

There is always a junta.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at May 01, 2022 10:06 AM (EZebt)

163 I applaud Professor's originality with the pic selection ! I like, well done !

Posted by: runner at May 01, 2022 10:06 AM (V13WU)

164 Lovely weekend up here in New England. When I've had a couple more cups of coffee and the Book Thread dries up, I'm going to cut a tree which is hung up on another in the yard. And start marinating some nice little steaks to put on the grill this evening. It's finally warm enough to cook outside again!

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 10:06 AM (QZxDR)

165 OK, folks, it's supposed to be a lovely day, so I think I will fire up the pipe and take a walk.

Hope you all have a good weekend.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 01, 2022 10:06 AM (2JVJo)

166 Titus was an Imperial-level troll, apparently.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 10:07 AM (QZxDR)

167 Ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostae.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse

"That's easy for YOU to say!!"

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:07 AM (8gxrg)

168 Suetonius was one of Hadrian's secretaries, and did run the archives, but that doesn't mean he was telling the truth about people who all died before he was born. Would a Federal official in 2022 really be any better a source about the Roosevelt administration than anyone else? And if you knew that official's party affiliation, wouldn't it make you more skeptical?

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 09:26 AM (QZxDR)

My take on Suetonius is that while not everything he wrote about the Julio-Claudians may have been correct, he didn't make those stories up out of whole cloth either. Caligula may not actually have had an affair with his sister, but he definitely made people angry enough to kill him in four years flat, and left the empire heavily in debt. And besides, we are talking about people who had near-absolute power; it's not like that doesn't lend itself to some fairly bestial behavior, then and now.

Posted by: Dr. T at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (tp+tP)

169 If Hitler was not around we might have gotten someone worse than Hitler. Someone who knew what they were doing.
------------------------
Or the Communists taking over a modern Western country. So I wouldn't kill Hitler if I could time travel because worse could happen.

Marx and Engels on the other hand... you'd have still had e.g. Fabian asshole types but not with so much intellectual support.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (UHVv4)

170 Nothing to see here: Just Socialist Kid AOC parking here $100k Tesla outside a DC area Whole Foods.

https://tinyurl.com/225842z9

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (yrol0)

171 I love Peter's library! And his hotel, and the website which gives all the history. So fascinating.

Has anyone here read The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle? My library had "unlimited copies" for Kindle so I checked it out, and I guess they stopped the unlimited copies business because now I have a notice that 37 people are waiting for it.

I just started reading it and, hmmm. I looked at the reviews on Amazon and people either love love LOVE it or hate hate HATE it. I just started the third incarnation (if you've read it, you'll understand) and right now I'm leaning towards the hate camp. I'd love to hear what you all have to say if you've read it.

Posted by: bluebell - NoVaMoMe 2022! at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (wyw4S)

172 Greetings:

What no, "Ave, Caesar !!! Mortuatori te salutant !!!" ???

What no, "Ad deum te latificat, juven tutem meam" on a Sunday ???

Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (uuklp)

173 I wonder if there's a name for this particular rhetorical bogusness? That is, analogizing Thing A to Thing B and using your opinion of A to "validate" your opinion of B.

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 10:00 AM (nfrXX)
---
I've found a very effective way to shut down these idiots is to engage them as if you think they're super smart and start right in with specifics "So how do you think that squares with the 1689 Bill of Rights?" and stuff like that.

Ask about whether wheel-locks threatened aristocratic sensibilities - really dig in until they're out of their depth and then draw back with disappointment when they sputter. "Oh, I thought you actually studied this stuff. Sorry. My mistake."

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (llXky)

174 Well, so much for being awake on a morning. is it a sock when it is a mistake?

Posted by: Kindltot at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (xhaym)

175 Muldoon at 9:56: Genius.

Posted by: who knew at May 01, 2022 10:09 AM (4I7VG)

176 Suetonius is the patron saint of defense lawyers.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 10:09 AM (KAi1n)

177 The town librarian, in the stacks, with the Dewey decimal system.

Posted by: SFGoth

"Dear Penthouse Forum:

I never thought I would write a letter like this, but . . . "

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:10 AM (8gxrg)

178 I wonder if there's a name for this particular rhetorical bogusness? That is, analogizing Thing A to Thing B and using your opinion of A to "validate" your opinion of B.
-----------------------------
Argument cocksuckery by choice.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (UHVv4)

179 The other book I finished this week was Downtiming the Night Side by Jack L. Chalker. It's one of the most convoluted time travel stories I've ever read. It starts out with time travelers killing Karl Marx (yes, the same one) twice--once when he is old and once when he was younger. Then things get weird. The main character ends up being both mother and father to his own children.

It's Jack L. Chalker, so there's a lot of body-swapping happening...It can be tricky to keep track of who is who.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (K5n5d)

180 143 Suetonius. I had Latin classes for 3 years in the Catholic school I attended up North. Doubt many highschools have it these days. Not in this country, anyway.
Posted by: docweasel at May 01, 2022 09:59 AM (m8LDo)

You have to find a private school without wokeness to find Latin on the curriculum. Even Catholic high schools around here have dropped it. In NJ, you have to look to Pingry, Peddie, Lawrenceville and such. PDS has Greek and Latin, but the curriculum is smothered with its queer, yes gender, shit

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (ONvIw)

181 I love all the recommendations for Roman history. Thank you to all for those.

Posted by: bluebell - NoVaMoMe 2022! at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (wyw4S)

182 161 This past week I read The Mad Scientist's Guide to World Domination. It's an excellent anthology of stories mostly told from the mad scientist's point of view. Some are hilarious, some are black comedy, and a few are deadly serious. It's not all fun and games trying to take over the world.

Good stuff. I enjoy this type of anthology because the authors clearly are having fun with the topic.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 10:05 AM (K5n5d)

Pinky and the Brain.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (yrol0)

183 I would say tacitus for the win.
Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022

***
Looks like we have tacit-us agreement then.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:11 AM (c6xtn)

184 If Hitler was not around we might have gotten someone worse than Hitler. Someone who knew what they were doing.

Like someone who recognized the tactical advantages of keeping the Jooooo physicists around?

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (y7DUB)

185 Every serous student of the Bible always ends up studying, at the very least, Greek and Hebrew.
I know a few, one went to Israel a decade and is still there now.
The problem is once you start translating to any other language, the waters get muddied. Or so I am told, I certainly don't speak those.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (jTmQV)

186 Perfessor never read Mad Scientist but did see a few Pinky and Brain shows

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (2JoB8)

187 My take on Suetonius is that while not everything he wrote about the Julio-Claudians may have been correct, he didn't make those stories up out of whole cloth either. Caligula may not actually have had an affair with his sister, but he definitely made people angry enough to kill him in four years flat, and left the empire heavily in debt. And besides, we are talking about people who had near-absolute power; it's not like that doesn't lend itself to some fairly bestial behavior, then and now.

Posted by: Dr. T at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (tp+tP)
---
Suetonius also gives both sides to the same event. He says that Antony's partisans claimed X while Augustus' claimed Y. He makes it clear when he's not sure or there are facts in dispute.

This tells us that when he states something happened, he feels he is on firm ground.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (llXky)

188 It's an excellent anthology of stories mostly told from the mad scientist's point of view.

"In retrospect, I question the need for a self destruct button in the first place."

-- Dr. Heinz Doofenschmirtz

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (nfrXX)

189 Now that's a proper messy library!

I'm also on the list of morons who like Roman history and authors. Tacitus is fine, I have 3 translations of his books, I think. He's a bit of a whiner. I'd also include Plutarch, though he was Greek, Lives is interesting and very readable.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 01, 2022 10:14 AM (eeRB6)

190 When you think about it except for the grave robbing and stiching together a murderous homunculus what was mad about frankenstein

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 10:15 AM (hMlTh)

191 I Am Pilgrim is a good spy action-adventure. Main and subplot are both very good.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 10:15 AM (QcZeT)

192 2 Still on the David Eddings Belgariad series. Too bad you can not get the followup series on the Kindle in the US. I tried to get it from Amazon in Great Britain, it would not let me.
Posted by: Vic at May 01, 2022 09:01 AM (mZwKe)

Most of what Eddings (husband and wife team) did was just re-tell the Belgariad over and over and over again. So you're reading the best of his offerings.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards (Logan Tiberius 2012-2021) at May 01, 2022 10:15 AM (eeRB6)

193 The problem is once you start translating to any other language, the waters get muddied. Or so I am told, I certainly don't speak those.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:13 AM (jTmQV

Often deliberately so. It seems important to make the Bible a living document in many circles.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:16 AM (ONvIw)

194 Greetings:

Dewey's decimal system has been genocided from our local library branch to be replaced by word descriptions.

Haven't figured out the benefit yet other than some make work use of somebody's Christmas label gun.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 10:16 AM (uuklp)

195 Lenin was a special kind of psychopath, which was ably described by Gary Saul Morson in The New Criterion recently:

https://tinyurl.com/LeninThink

Lenin removed all safeguards from revolutionary behavior, and Stalin took advantage of that very shrewdly.

If the Kerensky government had survived, world history in the 20th Century would have been much more benign. Lenin and Stalin were the ones who made it a charnel house, with Hitler's help, of course.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:16 AM (8gxrg)

196 I say again, I wish comics could have had the artists of the Bronze Age, the writers of the '80s, and the printing technology of today.

The Bronze Age of comics stretched into the late 80s so there's some overlap there. But I would love to see the inks from great comics back then recolored using modern techniques and printed on modern systems.

Were I to launch, say, Marvel Comics today I would do it very differently than they have. I would put out an ongoing series perhaps twice a month that was just the Marvel Universe, containing short stories and one shots taking place in that setting, as good stories and ideas arose.

Then, I would put out individual titles not as an ongoing permanent thing, but as limited series, telling story arcs as writers get good ideas and a great storyline. Then when that storyline is done, end it until someone else comes up with a great storyline.

This is largely how BBC does its television, they don't have many continual series, they have short series that are pitched to the beeb and produced if someone has an idea for a storyline, then it stops when that story is ended.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:17 AM (KZzsI)

197 I'm not going to do that, but does anyone know of a good English version of the Gospels based as closely as possible on the original Greek?
=====

King James.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 10:17 AM (MIKMs)

198 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:18 AM (Zz0t1)

199 Happy Sunday.

Even though it means tomorrow is Monday.....

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:19 AM (Zz0t1)

200 I agree, the King James is as good as you will get for faithful translation. It was the first, and the very publication of it was considered a revolutionary act, at the time.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:20 AM (jTmQV)

201 Jesus preferred the King James version.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022 10:20 AM (jYQlA)

202 Literacy has always been a big deal among a certain middle eastern-originating people.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 10:21 AM (KAi1n)

203 Finished "Burning the Sky: Operation Argus and the Untold Story of the Cold War Nuclear Tests in Outer Space" by Mark Wolverton.

The book belongs to a neighbor and it is not my usual reading fare. It was a slog for me to get through it but I'm glad I did. Fascinating history of nuclear tests in outer space in the late 50s and early 60s, at a time when the nuclear test ban was being hammered out. And a time when state secrets really were secret, for the most part.

Scary to think how it might have gone very wrong and endangered the entire world. Ignore the author's few editorializations. Though recent, they have not aged well.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient, HONK! Believing in America at May 01, 2022 10:22 AM (xT18z)

204 I'm not going to do that, but does anyone know of a good English version of the Gospels based as closely as possible on the original Greek?

The New American Standard Bible has the most direct and literal translation of the original language, which makes it read sort of odd and stilted at times, but its most what the original writers gave us.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:22 AM (KZzsI)

205 When you think about it except for the grave robbing and stiching together a murderous homunculus what was mad about frankenstein
Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 10:15 AM (hMlTh)

Grave robbing was how medical schools got cadavers to use for teaching. The stitching together stuff is harder to find a benign parallel for...

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 10:23 AM (y7DUB)

206 202 Literacy has always been a big deal among a certain middle eastern-originating people.
Posted by: SFGoth at May 01, 2022 10:21 AM (KAi1n)

We seem to be varying toward the mean.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:23 AM (ONvIw)

207 Jesus preferred the King James version.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at May 01, 2022

***
Well, sure. Just check out His blurb on the back cover of the 1611 edition.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:23 AM (c6xtn)

208
***
Well, sure. Just check out His blurb on the back cover of the 1611 edition.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:23 AM (c6xtn)

LOL.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:23 AM (Zz0t1)

209
Grave robbing was how medical schools got cadavers to use for teaching. The stitching together stuff is harder to find a benign parallel for...
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022

***
Just the flip side of anatomy class.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:24 AM (c6xtn)

210

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:24 AM (c6xtn)

211 Grave robbing was how medical schools got cadavers to use for teaching. The stitching together stuff is harder to find a benign parallel for...
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022

Conan Doyle covered this topic IIRC

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:25 AM (ONvIw)

212 What no, "Ave, Caesar !!! Mortuatori te salutant !!!" ???
What no, "Ad deum te latificat, juven tutem meam" on a Sunday ???
Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (uuklp)

When I was a receptionist I had the sign "Morituri Nolumus Mori" hung over my desk, until someone came in when I was gone and asked for "Mr Morituri"

Posted by: Kindltot at May 01, 2022 10:26 AM (xhaym)

213 Pete's mention of redoing his home reminded me. The house I grew up in was Victorian and the walls were plaster and lath. The real stuff with horse hair in the plaster. I helped dad refurbish some walls. That damn stuff would have stopped artillery.

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 10:26 AM (7EjX1)

214 The closest I have been to Pomeroy WA is Milton-Freewater, OR.

Posted by: Kindltot at May 01, 2022 10:27 AM (xhaym)

215 I'm not going to do that, but does anyone know of a good English version of the Gospels based as closely as possible on the original Greek?
=====

King James.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 10:17 AM (MIKMs)

Not really. There are more modern translations that get at the root of the original languages more precisely.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 01, 2022 10:27 AM (45fpk)

216 Some parts of the English translation are puzzlingly un-grammatical, perhaps purposely so.
Genesis 26
"And God said, 'let us make man in our own image".
Huh?
God is referring to itself in the third person plural?

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:27 AM (jTmQV)

217 The New American Standard Bible has the most direct and literal translation of the original language, which makes it read sort of odd and stilted at times, but its most what the original writers gave us.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:22 AM (KZzsI)
---
The problem is that words don't always line up and so one has to come up with new words or concepts, which are open to dispute.

And then there's the "this is the only instance of this Hebrew or Greek word" problem, which makes even the original language open to debate.

It's not like the Koran, where every point of dispute was solved by fire and sword. All part of the mystery of faith.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:28 AM (llXky)

218 The New American Standard Bible has the most direct and literal translation of the original language, which makes it read sort of odd and stilted at times, but its most what the original writers gave us.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:22 AM (KZzsI)

THIS

Posted by: grammie winger at May 01, 2022 10:28 AM (45fpk)

219 I bought the Didache Study Bible which is an RSV translation because it is apparently the best of the limited selection of Catholic study bibles, but I plan to get a KJV study bible too.
Not sure which yet.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 10:28 AM (5IT5y)

220 Yeah autopsies were not at all the thing in the past, which is why it bothers me when I read some historical mystery and some medico is cutting up bodies to tell what happened to them.

It was actually illegal (and considered dishonorable and disrespectful to the dead) in most societies in the past. And even if people did do so (which, they did), they didn't really know what they were looking for or even how a human body was put together inside very well for most of history.

Egyptians, for example, would cut bodies apart for burial, but did not do so to dissect and analyze for criminal investigation. There were some ancient Greeks in the late BC period that did some autopsies, when it was unusual in the culture, and after the middle ages, scientists started to do so, but again getting a body to work on was often the work of grave robbers.

Later, in the 1700s to 1800s it was considered improper and distasteful to cut open a body to find out how they died (especially a wealthy and powerful person's body), so it was rarely permitted.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:29 AM (KZzsI)

221 "And God said, 'let us make man in our own image".
Huh?
God is referring to itself in the third person plural?

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:27 AM (jTmQV)

The Godhead, as seen in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 01, 2022 10:29 AM (45fpk)

222 You people are all way too serious for me.
Posted by Sharon (willow's apprentice)

********

Toga Party!! - a limerick

Here's something for you history nerds to ponder
'Bout all those Roman dudes over yonder
When you talk of ancient Rome
My mouth begins to foam
Eyes glaze, and my mind starts to wander

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:30 AM (kXYt5)

223 God is referring to itself in the third person plural?
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:27 AM (jTmQV)

The ego on that guy...

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:30 AM (47mFt)

224 To follow up the raging success of my first book (Combat Engineer, which has sold almost several copies!), I am trying to convince a friend to let me write about his family's service in WWII. And I want to change publisher.

I read Combat Engineer. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I always think back to when men like our fathers and grandfathers were the backbone of this country. I know it’s been said many times before, “Where do we find such men as these?” I believe today’s veterans are meant to fill that gap.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at May 01, 2022 10:30 AM (NVtgT)

225 I'm not going to do that, but does anyone know of a good English version of the Gospels based as closely as possible on the original Greek?
=====
King James.
----------------------------------------
The Robert Barker and Martin Lucas printing.

https://tinyurl.com/2rmezhd4

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:31 AM (UHVv4)

226 I'm with Sharon. I read for fun.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 01, 2022 10:31 AM (45fpk)

227 Deep-six the Dewey Decimal System and replace with word descriptions? Dear God in Heaven. And presumably some librarian okayed that. Almost makes me ashamed to be a (former) librarian.

I've often thought that if students knew the basic 10 (and better, 100) Dewey categories they'd be able to use a library to learn anything they wanted to know even if they couldn't hit on the right phrasing to find what they wanted in the card or computer catalog.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 01, 2022 10:31 AM (JzDjf)

228 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (Om/di)

The agent w/the least seniority..."Newby".

Posted by: BignJames at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (AwYPR)

229 The problem is that words don't always line up and so one has to come up with new words or concepts, which are open to dispute.

Yeah, they had to kind of guess at what some bits meant, based on context and use although a lot of those have subsequently been cleared up through later scholarship. That's the problem with translating ancient or mostly dead languages.

Then there is the issue of multiple different copies of text which there is more fighting over which is best and most accurate. The New King James uses one set, the New English Standard uses another. In the end the all converge on the same thing but theologians get very specific in their concerns.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (KZzsI)

230 Another outstanding limerick, Muldoon!

Posted by: Legally Sufficient, HONK! Believing in America at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (xT18z)

231 It was actually illegal (and considered dishonorable and disrespectful to the dead) in most societies in the past.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:29 AM (KZzsI)
---
Also a really great way to spread disease.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (llXky)

232 Also a really great way to spread disease.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (llXky)

Certainly can be, and past societies had poor personal protection gear.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:33 AM (ONvIw)

233 I loved Mori Amsterdam on the Dick Van Dyke Show!

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:33 AM (UHVv4)

234 His brother is James Holland, a historian of WWII who has written such books as Big Week: The Biggest Air Battle of World War II, Dam Busters, The Battle of Britain, and many others.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022

Indeed he is. Holland and Sandbrook had James Holland on the Rest is History podcast to talk about the year 1940, which was obviously pivotal in European history.

Tom Holland's first attempted professional writing was in the Victorian period vampire genre, BTW. Which I find hilarious.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:33 AM (8gxrg)

235 I'm always on the hunt for newish science fiction - preferably not military focused navy-in-space sci-fi. I grabbed a 2018 space opera from the library - the author had some very good science concepts but ruined all of it with page upon page of non-stop internal dialogue of a proto-woke character. And if that weren't enough the narrator showed hyper awareness of the reader and in brief asides speaks directly to the reader "better living through chemistry" and such.

Bleh.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 10:35 AM (QcZeT)

236 Haven't figured out the benefit yet other than some make work use of somebody's Christmas label gun.
Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 10:16 AM (uuklp)

I was at the ortho getting bad leg looked at. There were 20 fucking 3 notices, labels, or signs in the exam room!

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 10:35 AM (yrol0)

237 Then there is the issue of multiple different copies of text which there is more fighting over which is best and most accurate. The New King James uses one set, the New English Standard uses another. In the end the all converge on the same thing but theologians get very specific in their concerns.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (KZzsI)
---
Also, the limitations of modern English, which lacks formal and informal tenses in everyday use.

We have three genders, but do not always indicate them with articles or suffixes. This has gotten worse as those with endings have been written out - women are now called "actors" rather than "actresses" and who uses "comedienne" any more?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:35 AM (llXky)

238 We need a new real-life Frankenstein story, where -

Biden dies but Our Betters decide to revive him with a new a better brain for their purposes...say Lenin's preserved brain.

But, the knuckle-headed, hunchbacked lab assistant brings back Milton Friedman's brain and they implant that.

Hijinks ensue.

Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:35 AM (LV9Tl)

239 Later, in the 1700s to 1800s it was considered improper and distasteful to cut open a body to find out how they died ...
*******

improper and distasteful perhaps, but not unheard of:

Diggin' Up Bones - a limerick

Burke and Hare were known for their thuggery
For mugging and all sorts of buggery
But they got into trouble
At a grave with a shovel
Engaged in pernicious skull-duggery

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (kXYt5)

240 God is referring to itself in the third person plural?

There are several different interpretations why this was done.

1) God was using the royal "we" like Queen Elizabeth does.
2) God was referring to Himself and His angelic hosts
3) God was referring to the trinity: God, Son, Holy Spirit
4) While Elohim has a plural meaning, sometimes its used as singular in the Bible

I'm sure there are other interpretations I've not heard of. The simplest and most natural explanation is either 2 or 3, Christians preferring 3 and Jews preferring 2.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (KZzsI)

241 I understand the modern application of the Trinity.
Genesis pre-dates Christianity and is originally in Hebrew, of course.
I always considered it a puzzlement...

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (jTmQV)

242 My mom was a Navy doctor, a pathologist, in the 50s, 60s. She said they used to brown bag it for lunch and eat in their workplace. which all the other doctors found weird and gruesome.

Posted by: goatexchange at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (APPN8)

243 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (Om/di)

I'm going with Husk.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (VwHCD)

244 224 To follow up the raging success of my first book (Combat Engineer, which has sold almost several copies!), I am trying to convince a friend to let me write about his family's service in WWII. And I want to change publisher.

You sold one to me. Very much enjoyed it. Best wishes on your next venture.

Posted by: Ordinary American at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (H8QX8)

245 Also a really great way to spread disease.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (llXky)

Certainly can be, and past societies had poor personal protection gear.
Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:33 AM (ONvIw)

Actually, there was a great deal of fear that bodies were causing all sorts of diseases we now know cannot be spread by dead bodies.

So the effort to move burials out of churches, and into parks that were further away from residential areas was started because the way diseases spread was poorly understood.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:37 AM (47mFt)

246 understand the modern application of the Trinity.
Genesis pre-dates Christianity and is originally in Hebrew, of course.
I always considered it a puzzlement...

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (jTmQV)
---
The Trinity pre-dates Genesis.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (llXky)

247 If we're going to discuss ancient Roman literature, there is an intriguing literary mystery. The poet Ovid fell from Augustus' favor and was banished to a barbarian village. Ovid blames his exile on "carmen et error"; i.e., a poem and a mistake. No one knows precisely the reason but there is speculation that the offending poem was the sexually explicit Ars Amatoria (The Art of Love) which may have been unfortunately timed in that Augustus was then contrasting his morality to the immorality of Antony and Cleopatra and his other enemies. Ovid contend that whatever the mistake was, it was not illegal but was worse than murder. There is speculation that he may have seen something that he wasn't supposed to see.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (FVME7)

248 I loved Mori Amsterdam on the Dick Van Dyke Show!
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:33 AM (UHVv4)

And Mary Tyler Moore as the Beaver!

Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (LV9Tl)

249 Also a really great way to spread disease.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at May 01, 2022 10:32 AM (llXky)

That was not a consideration in the West. If you remember, Semmelweis was eventually committed to a mental hospital for insisting that doctors wash their hands going from the dissecting room to the maternity wards since no one believed there was a mechanism for transmitting infection like childbed fever

Posted by: Kindltot at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (xhaym)

250 I grabbed a 2018 space opera from the library - the author had some very good science concepts but ruined all of it with page upon page of non-stop internal dialogue of a proto-woke character.

Yeah, that's how you get published these days. Sci Fi has long been a bastion of traditional ideas and approaches to culture that the woke crowd hated and wanted to fix, so this is what you get now. Fantasy is getting the same treatment. Traditional big house publishing is thrashing around in its death throes spewing a lot of terrible stuff.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (KZzsI)

251 243 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek at May 01, 2022 09:15 AM (Om/di)

Depends.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (vuisn)

252 I wonder what code name the Secret Service assigned to Biden?

Posted by: Weak Geek

"Depends".

Posted by: NaCly Dog at May 01, 2022 10:40 AM (vUkRo)

253 Yeah autopsies were not at all the thing in the past, which is why it bothers me when I read some historical mystery and some medico is cutting up bodies to tell what happened to them.

It was actually illegal (and considered dishonorable and disrespectful to the dead) in most societies in the past. And even if people did do so (which, they did), they didn't really know what they were looking for or even how a human body was put together inside very well for most of history.

Egyptians, for example, would cut bodies apart for burial, but did not do so to dissect and analyze for criminal investigation. There were some ancient Greeks in the late BC period that did some autopsies, when it was unusual in the culture. . .
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022

***
Wasn't here some point where physicians would hold public dissections for the crowds, as entertainment? I'd presume the dissecters would be learning something as they went, but it was intended as a spectator event. Ancient Rome -- Galen's time, maybe?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:41 AM (c6xtn)

254 I've often thought that if students knew the basic 10 (and better, 100) Dewey categories they'd be able to use a library to learn anything they wanted to know even if they couldn't hit on the right phrasing to find what they wanted in the card or computer catalog.
=====

Something that absolutely makes me crazy. Card catalogs (and why in the name of literacy can't it be searchable without artificial 'systems'?) is more flexible than the more rigid computer systems. More 'happy wandering discoveries'.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 10:41 AM (MIKMs)

255 Whoa.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at May 01, 2022 10:41 AM (Y5qcH)

256 Genesis pre-dates Christianity and is originally in Hebrew, of course.

Christians teach that Christianity is only the modern expression of God's truth through the ages. There's always only been one faith, one truth of God, which reached its final revelation in Christ. If Christianity is true, then it was true long before creation. If the Trinity is truth, then it always was the truth, and you get glimpses of it in the Old Testament.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:41 AM (KZzsI)

257 My mom was a Navy doctor, a pathologist, in the 50s, 60s. She said they used to brown bag it for lunch and eat in their workplace. which all the other doctors found weird and gruesome.
Posted by: goatexchange at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (APPN

It was very common esp when studying after school with the cadavers for anatomy tests, to

grab some Church's Fried Chicken from across the street, and eat as you gamboled among the cadavers.

You get used to it.

Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:42 AM (LV9Tl)

258 But, the knuckle-headed, hunchbacked lab assistant brings back Milton Friedman's brain and they implant that.

Hijinks ensue.

Posted by: naturalfake

I would read the Hell out of that!

Posted by: Sharkman at May 01, 2022 10:42 AM (8gxrg)

259 Wasn't here some point where physicians would hold public dissections for the crowds, as entertainment?

I don't know about that, but they would do a dissection in a classroom with dozens of students watching to try to learn from that. There are several Renaissance paintings depicting this, for some reason. Given human nature I wouldn't be surprised, autopsy shows and bits in shows like NCIS and CSI are really popular today so...

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:42 AM (KZzsI)

260 Ovid contend that whatever the mistake was, it was not illegal but was worse than murder. There is speculation that he may have seen something that he wasn't supposed to see.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022

***
If Ovid had been fooling around with one of Augustus' daughters -- there was one who was quite the party girl, I believe -- he'd have found himself dead instead of exiled to the Black Sea area.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:42 AM (c6xtn)

261 I'm trying to re-read the complete collection of George O. Smith's "Venus Equilateral" stories. Unfortunately, I could only get them in a 468-page paperback, with very small print, so reading them is going to take quite a while.

Even with my strongest reading glasses (4.00), the print's small enough my eyes get tired quickly, and I have to switch to something larger, preferably on the Kindle. But the stories I've managed so far are as good as I remember from lo those many years ago, so I'm going to persist.

Posted by: Ann Wilson, aka Empire 1 at May 01, 2022 10:43 AM (y0zVi)

262 It seems like everybody is doing Roman historical mysteries nowadays (many of them REALLY BAD, like having female characters who talk and like woke 21st century female academics), but allow me to recommend the SPQR series by John Maddox Roberts. His main character, Decius Caecilius Metellus, is convincingly thuggish and the other characters mostly ring true for me. His wife, a (fictional) niece of Julius Caesar, is maybe a little bit too "liberated", but given her family background a little bossiness isn't that far out of character.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 10:44 AM (bW8dp)

263 Thanks for all the suggestions for reading the Gospels. It gives me a starting point. (This quest should have started 60 years ago but, alas, ir didn't.)

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 10:44 AM (7EjX1)

264 My footnoted on-line KJV directs Gen. 1:26 to original Hebrew for clarification

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:44 AM (jTmQV)

265 Speaking of grave-robbing and such, looking forward to Mincemeat, coming out soon. Great story.

Posted by: goatexchange at May 01, 2022 10:45 AM (APPN8)

266 Actually, there was a great deal of fear that bodies were causing all sorts of diseases we now know cannot be spread by dead bodies.

So the effort to move burials out of churches, and into parks that were further away from residential areas was started because the way diseases spread was poorly understood.
Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:37 AM (47mFt)

Some of it was poor understanding of disease (miasma theory), and disease v trauma.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:45 AM (ONvIw)

267 I remember when Ovid-19 ravaged the Roman Empire.

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:45 AM (kXYt5)

268 > It was very common esp when studying after school with the cadavers for anatomy tests, to

I remember reading a non-fiction book by a forensic scientist who worked in a university setting. When they'd get a burn victim in, the other people in the building would sometimes unknowingly say stuff like "Mmm... who ordered barbecue?" He'd just smile and nod and move on.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 10:46 AM (bW8dp)

269 Morning Hordemates.
I have read a number of Mr Bartlett's books and enjoyed each one.
I recommend them to you all.

Posted by: Diogenes at May 01, 2022 10:47 AM (axyOa)

270 I remember when Ovid-19 ravaged the Roman Empire.

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:45 AM (kXYt5)

Please don't egg me on.

Posted by: BignJames at May 01, 2022 10:47 AM (AwYPR)

271 "The Mad Scientist's Guide to World Domination.-- It's not all fun and games trying to take over the world."
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

Did it include any global pandemic scenarios? Or Global Reset run by shadow bankers? Those seem more viable than global nuke scenarios.

Posted by: illiniwek at May 01, 2022 10:47 AM (Cus5s)

272 Its a common trope in movies and TV to have the coroner eating while doing an autopsy or in the room with the bodies, all sloppy while everyone else is grossed out. I mean, there's some truth to it but it became such a cliche.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:47 AM (KZzsI)

273 And Mary Tyler Moore as the Beaver!
Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (LV9Tl)

And what a beaver it was.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:48 AM (47mFt)

274 Wasn't here some point where physicians would hold public dissections for the crowds, as entertainment? I'd presume the dissecters would be learning something as they went, but it was intended as a spectator event. Ancient Rome -- Galen's time, maybe?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:41 AM (c6xtn)

Also in William Godwin's time. It was these dissections and experiments with electricity, that gave Mary inspiration and Frankenstein's monster its life.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 10:48 AM (ONvIw)

275 My footnoted on-line KJV directs Gen. 1:26 to original Hebrew for clarification

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:44 AM (jTmQV)

Check Proverbs 30:31. You'll see 'greyhound' mentioned (the only time a dog breed is mentioned in the Bible). However, in more modern (and IMO more accurate) translations, that word is translated 'rooster'. Much to my chagrin because I love greyhounds.

Posted by: grammie winger at May 01, 2022 10:48 AM (45fpk)

276 The miasma theory of malaria, though wrong, at least did have some recognizable connection to cause and effect, even if they did confuse correlation with causation.

"People who live in swamps get malaria. It seems like swamps cause malaria."

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 10:48 AM (bW8dp)

277 Code Brown.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:49 AM (UHVv4)

278 Wasn't here some point where physicians would hold public dissections for the crowds, as entertainment?

*******

"What's showing at the Bijou this weekend?"

"Prudence Witherspoon's Liver, want to go?"

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:49 AM (kXYt5)

279 but allow me to recommend the SPQR series by John Maddox Roberts
=====

Yes. I would also add older Davis and Saylor (haven't read their newer stuff) as worthwhile.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 10:49 AM (MIKMs)

280 *Wasn't here some point where physicians would hold public dissections for the crowds, as entertainment?"

Wear a mask.

Posted by: Karen of old at May 01, 2022 10:50 AM (jYQlA)

281 I have been reading a lot more this year, for some reason, but its also been a lot of re-reads as I slowly buy series I always wanted to keep that I'd read in the library out of order, whatever was available to check out. Most of them it doesn't matter, but some are progressive and build on the previous.

Something I have found out is that I like self-contained, individual stories a lot more than the "Big Plot" stories that are just episodes in the overarching storyline. In fact, when I run into the "Big Plot" in a series, I am disappointed and dislike it.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:50 AM (KZzsI)

282 Its a common trope in movies and TV to have the coroner eating while doing an autopsy or in the room with the bodies, all sloppy while everyone else is grossed out. I mean, there's some truth to it but it became such a cliche.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:47 AM (KZzsI)

I recall starting a job once, where I was supposed to give a urine sample as part of the employee physical process. So I went to the lab (this was at a hospital), finished my business, and was told to put the sample down on the desk. Right next to the work space.

I had a strong suspicion this is where she ate her lunch too.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:51 AM (47mFt)

283 However, in more modern (and IMO more accurate) translations, that word is translated 'rooster'. Much to my chagrin because I love greyhounds.

The NIV is kind of infamous for translating "strong drink" as "Beer" because we must not imply that holy men drank booze! Translation choices like that make me grind my teeth.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:51 AM (KZzsI)

284 Depends!

Posted by: Amy Schumer at May 01, 2022 10:51 AM (Zz0t1)

285
And Mary Tyler Moore as the Beaver!
Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (LV9Tl)

I would look at Mary Tyler Moore's beaver.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:53 AM (Zz0t1)

286 Depending on time and staffing, card catalogs could be a real chore to maintain. Cards stuck to other cards during filing were as good as lost forever, and I couldn't begin to count the number of times people tore the card for the book they wanted out of the drawer and took it to the shelf with them while they looked for the book (the card either left where the book belonged or stuffed back into some random location in the card drawer). That doesn't happen with the computer catalog. And you can wander through the machine catalog as well if it's properly set up (browse it in shelf order, any key words, etc).

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 01, 2022 10:53 AM (JzDjf)

287 It might be interesting to see how low COVID-19 infection rates were among hospital pathologists. Those folks probably have incredibly robust immune systems, having been exposed to every imaginable infectious pathogen throughout their careers.

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (kXYt5)

288 Something I have found out is that I like self-contained, individual stories a lot more than the "Big Plot" stories that are just episodes in the overarching storyline. In fact, when I run into the "Big Plot" in a series, I am disappointed and dislike it.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022

***
Same here. Though I do like references in Novel 6 of a series to events that happened in Novel 2, etc. The Ellery Queen cousins did it, as did Rex Stout with the Wolfe stories, and Fleming with James Bond. It gives you a feeling that you are dealing with real people who (like us) remember earlier events in their lives -- events that sometimes strongly affect the events in the current installment. But the current installment is a story on its own and you don't need to have read the earlier pieces to enjoy this one.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (c6xtn)

289 > Yes. I would also add older Davis and Saylor (haven't read their newer stuff) as worthwhile.

Saylor is one of the ones where the characters don't really ring true for me, but in his case I forgive it because he's a really good writer.

For instance, I'm pretty sure that a real Roman father's reaction to discovering that his daughter was being banged by the male slave would be...different.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (bW8dp)

290 I tried to write an opera about early medicine but it was one mal aria after another.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (UHVv4)

291 The NIV is kind of infamous for translating "strong drink" as "Beer" because we must not imply that holy men drank booze! Translation choices like that make me grind my teeth.

Seems like wine would be more likely but it's not like they had distillation technology, is it?

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 10:55 AM (nfrXX)

292 I tried to read a book called The Mummy of Monte Cristo, but found it wasn't my sort of thing. Its one of those "what if an old book were supernatural" things, setting the Count of Monte Cristo in a fantasy world with spellcasters and so on. The problem with doing this kind of thing is that these old classics were usually extraordinarily well written so your new updated cool version with strong grrls using stakes and martial arts suffers in comparison in the writing.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:55 AM (KZzsI)

293 I tried to write an opera about early medicine but it was one mal aria after another.
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022

***
A plague on both your houses!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (c6xtn)

294 And Mary Tyler Moore as the Beaver!
Posted by: naturalfake at May 01, 2022 10:38 AM (LV9Tl)

I would look at Mary Tyler Moore's beaver.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:53 AM (Zz0t1)

You could never make that show today. At the very least they would make them change the name to "The Penis Van Lesbian Show."

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (47mFt)

295 After finishing several books, fiction and non-fiction, recently I'm in the mood for shorter pieces that can be completed in a couple of hours or less. Sarah Hoyt's "Odd Magics" fits the bill. Also got out my copies of the complete works of Montaigne and complete Robert Howard Conan stories. (Don't want to get tied to just one style.)

Posted by: JTB at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (7EjX1)

296 There's a fun space opera book by a writer named James Cambias called The Godel Operation. I think it got mentioned on the Book Thread a while back.

Also, Suzanne Palmer wrote a pretty interesting book called Finder, which is very space-operatic and avoids contemporary political posturing.

And for hard-core space opera, you might want to look at Allen Steele's official reboot of the Captain Future series.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (QZxDR)

297 > Chris

Yeah. Bleh. I saw you mention LOTR and female characters and female viewers of the film. Stuart Lee's book spends a lot of time on that aspect of the book. Shelob, Galadriel and Eowyn.

The left-intelligencia hate Tolkien. Evelyn Waugh's son spent years attacking Tolkien. His specific thing was snobbery towards popular books - the "escape of the prisoner versus the flight of the traitor" and that sort of thing. Because we should be reading Finnegan's Wake. The Waugh Clique blocked a lot of authors from getting published.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (QcZeT)

298 Depending on time and staffing, card catalogs could be a real chore to maintain. Cards stuck to other cards during filing were as good as lost forever, and I couldn't begin to count the number of times people tore the card for the book they wanted out of the drawer and took it to the shelf with them while they looked for the book (the card either left where the book belonged or stuffed back into some random location in the card drawer).

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 01, 2022 10:53 AM (JzDjf)

People that did this should be hanged by the neck until dead.

It's the ultimate in selfishness.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:57 AM (Zz0t1)

299 Good morning, Perfessor, Horde

Posted by: callsign claymore at May 01, 2022 10:57 AM (KQ1d9)

300 I tried to write an opera about early medicine but it was one mal aria after another.
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (UHVv4)

I tried writing one about a pub crawl, but the critics complained there were too many songs. They said "couldn't you just hum a few bars?"

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:57 AM (47mFt)

301 Beer and wine were widely consumed because the water could kill you.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:58 AM (jTmQV)

302 In a Biblical context, "strong drink" means unmixed wine.

Posted by: Trimegistus at May 01, 2022 10:58 AM (QZxDR)

303 Those folks probably have incredibly robust immune systems, having been exposed to every imaginable infectious pathogen throughout their careers.

Medical types seem to be weeded out (probably by the residency program) so that only the really healthy and super resistant types make it to the job. You rarely hear of a doctor or nurse getting the latest sniffles, despite working in a stew of bacteria and virus. Its interesting.

More relevant to me was the way street people didn't get this stuff and die off in hordes. Seriously, they have terrible living conditions, terrible diets, live in filth, and are among the most vulnerable, yet the Wuhan Flu didn't march through them like death incarnate. That seems significant to me, but nobody at all seems to comment on that or study it.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:58 AM (KZzsI)

304 It's dark and raining steadily here. I got back from the grocery just in time! Very pleasant to sit here, chat with all of you, puff on my pipe, and sip coffee.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 10:59 AM (c6xtn)

305
You could never make that show today. At the very least they would make them change the name to "The Penis Van Lesbian Show."
Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 10:56 AM (47mFt)

And the Ed Asner character would need to be Admiral Levine-ish.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 10:59 AM (Zz0t1)

306 "People who live in swamps get malaria. It seems like swamps cause malaria."

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

Apparently, the swamp also causes corruption.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 11:00 AM (FVME7)

307 Sponge,
In my fantasies, the people who screwed around with the card catalog didn't get off nearly as easy as simple hanging.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 01, 2022 11:00 AM (JzDjf)

308 And the Ed Asner character would need to be Admiral Levine-ish.

"You've got spunk. I love spunk."

-- "Ms." Grant

Posted by: Oddbob at May 01, 2022 11:00 AM (nfrXX)

309 It might be interesting to see how low COVID-19 infection rates were among hospital pathologists. Those folks probably have incredibly robust immune systems, having been exposed to every imaginable infectious pathogen throughout their careers.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (kXYt5)

Not to mention likely high inventories of Ivermectin and HCQ.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:00 AM (Zz0t1)

310 Sponge,
In my fantasies, the people who screwed around with the card catalog didn't get off nearly as easy as simple hanging.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 01, 2022 11:00 AM (JzDjf)

*fistbump*

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:01 AM (Zz0t1)

311 > Seriously, they have terrible living conditions, terrible diets, live in filth, and are among the most vulnerable, yet the Wuhan Flu didn't march through them like death incarnate.

In one of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin books the doctor is amazed by how healthy the sailors are, overall. Something like "Maybe sleeping in 28 inches of space, doing hard labor in every conceivable weather, eating no fresh food, and drinking a gallon of beer and a pint of grog every day is the key to health."

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 11:01 AM (bW8dp)

312 My walls are plaster and slats too. The house was built in the 40s by one of the characters in that Midnight In the Garden of Good and Evil book. At first this was just based on something the previous owner said at closing. But you know people will say stuff. So afterwards I dug into it and it gets more complicated. The book was somewhat fiction somewhat fact. The people are all real savannah people but names are changed and some are a construct of multiple. I found information on the people behind the characters from some documentary and article produced by a local university. So I had names and then saw that one of them matched the guy that built my house.

Its not 100% as I see the guy's sister on the records too and she still had her maiden name so its hard to see who was who. But I think it was after he died or was convalescent. The history matches up real well with the events of the book as I understand them. I haven't actually read it just read about it.

Posted by: banana Dream at May 01, 2022 11:01 AM (0fVbu)

313 It might be interesting to see how low COVID-19 infection rates were among hospital pathologists. Those folks probably have incredibly robust immune systems, having been exposed to every imaginable infectious pathogen throughout their careers.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 10:54 AM (kXYt5)

If you found a dead body on a walking trail, with all sorts of footprints all over the place, who is the REAL pathologist, the medical examiner or the Indian tracker?

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:02 AM (47mFt)

314 > And the Ed Asner character would need to be Admiral Levine-ish.

Could still be played by Ed Asner.

That rat-bastard communist would be perfect.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at May 01, 2022 11:02 AM (bW8dp)

315 Yeah. Bleh. I saw you mention LOTR and female characters and female viewers of the film. Stuart Lee's book spends a lot of time on that aspect of the book. Shelob, Galadriel and Eowyn.

I loved the reaction of one female Tolkien fan to seeing Galadriel wearing armor and carrying a sword in the Amazon Rings series preview: "that's downgrading her power. She didn't NEED a sword".

The problem with too much of genre writing done today is that its being done by people who don't like (or understand) the genre.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:02 AM (KZzsI)

316 Beer and wine were widely consumed because the water could kill you.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 10:58 AM (jTmQV)

Beer required reaching a certain agricultural sophistication level to have excess grain to use for brewing it.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 11:03 AM (y7DUB)

317 My walls are plaster and slats too.

Posted by: banana Dream at May 01, 2022 11:01 AM (0fVbu)

SHIPLAP!!!!!

- - Chip Gaines

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:03 AM (Zz0t1)

318 Quite possibly ancients knowing other diseases came from dead bodies made them think all could come from the dead

Posted by: Skip's phone at May 01, 2022 11:04 AM (Ml5lM)

319 End of yard and phone dropped wifi

Posted by: Skip's phone at May 01, 2022 11:04 AM (Ml5lM)

320 "Maybe sleeping in 28 inches of space, doing hard labor in every conceivable weather, eating no fresh food, and drinking a gallon of beer and a pint of grog every day is the key to health."

And there's probably something to that. But these were men with regular, steady (if somewhat dubious) diet, limited liquor, and vigorous daily exercise, plus a very strict schedule, which has been shown to be very healthy (keeping on a schedule of exercise, food, and rest).

Bums eat little and its usually crap, drink too much, get almost no exercise, and have a very random schedule.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (KZzsI)

321 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

322 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

English. The Bible is written in English.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

323 Saylor is one of the ones where the characters don't really ring true for me, but in his case I forgive it because he's a really good writer.

-
I agree. I quite liked his The Throne of Caesar. It's one of those murder mysteries that misleads you not only as to the identity of the murderer but also the real victim and the real murder.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 11:06 AM (FVME7)

324 Thanks JTB. Godel Operation.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (QcZeT)

325
Bums eat little and its usually crap, drink too much, get almost no exercise, and have a very random schedule.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (KZzsI)

Huh. Maybe I should've tried that instead.

Posted by: Jim Fixx at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (Zz0t1)

326 Beer required reaching a certain agricultural sophistication level to have excess grain to use for brewing it.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 11:03 AM (y7DUB)

Plus bacteria will kill yeast. So my guess is they learned to clean pots and find clean water.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (yrol0)

327 "And God said, 'let us make man in our own image".
Huh? God is referring to itself in the third person plural?"

I learned this was "the royal we", but I don't really know Hebrew, so not sure they had "the royal we".

Posted by: illiniwek at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (Cus5s)

328 322 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

English. The Bible is written in English.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

Was raised in ABA churches and seen Jesus with a crew cut.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:08 AM (yrol0)

329 Before I forget (I'm 29), I found my old paperback of Bimbos of the Death Sun and am looking for my Zombies of the Gene Pool. Both are in terrible condition and I can't tell whether it was the flood or cat/dog pee. Anyway, that is my plan for this week.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 11:08 AM (MIKMs)

330 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

Yiddish.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 01, 2022 11:09 AM (XIJ/X)

331 It all began in a 5,000 watt radio station in Fresno, California...

Posted by: Ted Baxter at May 01, 2022 11:09 AM (jYQlA)

332 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

English. The Bible is written in English.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

Yeah, it's weird when they try to translate the Bible into Greek or Roman or Aramaic or whatever. How do you translate a phrase like "You can have my walking stick [some translations say staff, but that's too dirty if you ask me] when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!"

Powerful stuff.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:10 AM (47mFt)

333
Was raised in ABA churches and seen Jesus with a crew cut.
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:08 AM (yrol0)

That would be downright weird.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)

334 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?

Yes, but he also knew and was literate in Hebrew in no small part because of his nanny being his mom. He probably spoke a bunch of different languages.

There's a short series about a former Gladiator and his slave investigating mysteries by Ashley Gardner, she just started writing the series so there's only a couple books out so far but I enjoy them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:11 AM (KZzsI)

335 The problem with too much of genre writing done today is that its being done by people who don't like (or understand) the genre.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022

***
Larry Niven's comment on fantasy (yes, he has written some very good stuff in the genre) was that if you are writing fantasy, you have an obligation to deal with universal concepts. He added, "One may ignore any obligations, of course."

Knowing LN's work as I do, I'm sure he's never let "dealing with universals" get in the way of a good story.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:11 AM (c6xtn)

336 "And God said, 'let us make man in our own image".
Huh? God is referring to itself in the third person plural?"

I learned this was "the royal we", but I don't really know Hebrew, so not sure they had "the royal we".
Posted by: illiniwek at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (Cus5s)

SEE? God was inclusive and believed in equity!!!

- - Liberal Shitard

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:11 AM (Zz0t1)

337 My thanks to the Perfessor for the thread!
[tips hat]

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 01, 2022 11:12 AM (Wmbtn)

338 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 01, 2022 11:12 AM (Wmbtn)

How are you doing?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:13 AM (Zz0t1)

339 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:05 AM (yrol0)

After being kicked out I'm sure he learned the language of his wife.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:13 AM (LG5dc)

340 Lovely thread, Perfesser. What a good job you are doing!
Nice to be here- watched Mass on livestream early.

Very interested in the Holland recs. My old excuse for watching HBO's Rome was to experience why they needed Christianity. (That excuse did not work for Deadwood of course...)

Posted by: sal at May 01, 2022 11:14 AM (bJKUl)

341 We went to the SAT night service, so I am on time for The Book Thread! Thanks Perfessor! I been catching up on the audiobooks I*ve accumulated. I listened to Lawrence Wright’s The Looming Tower, about the rise of Al Quida, and FBI agent John O*Niel*s hunt for Bin Laden. In 2018, Discovery did a 10 part mini-series based on the book. I purchased the mini-series, and it was very well done. Did an Audible Original titled Cut and Run. It was a cute and pithy screwball comedy. I think it was a freebie. It is worth two and a half hours of your listening time. Just started a Philip K. Dick book Time Out Of Joint. Have a good week All!

Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-So Buff I Should Be Illegal at May 01, 2022 11:14 AM (w+4mj)

342 I second Sharkman's recommendation of Holland. After reading "Dominion" I went on to read the rest of his books; Sharkman's right, he's an excellent writer. And "The Rest of History" podcasts with Dominic Sandbrook are fun and quirky. Both men are VERY British and there's a lot of cricket talk and references that go over a non-Brits head I now want to read some of Sandbrook's work, because he's as engaging on the air as Holland is.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at May 01, 2022 11:15 AM (HabA/)

343 Moses didn't speak much anyway. He left the talking to his brother. Speak softly and carry a big staff.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:15 AM (LG5dc)

344 The problem with too much of genre writing done today is that its being done by people who don't like (or understand) the genre.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:02 AM (KZzsI)
---
Agreed. They don't bother to take the time to properly understand the genre in which they want to write. Or they are so focused on *THE MESSAGE* that they are willing to throw out any story worth reading.

They find a lot of the older stuff "problematic" so they try to "correct" the original author's work, without really understanding the context in which it was written.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 11:15 AM (K5n5d)

345 Am I the only person who runs across a current article by Timothy Snyder and thinks after he wrote Bloodlands for whatever reason he completely lost his shit?

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 11:15 AM (y7DUB)

346 Moses was a foreign exchange student.

Posted by: klaftern at May 01, 2022 11:16 AM (taPSh)

347 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022

***
Of course. He was raised as Pharoah's son, and his education would probably not have included extensive learning of what was to the royal family slave talk. Which is part of why I'm not convinced that Moses would suddenly throw over his position as the most exalted prince in the land to lead the Hebrews just because he saw a Hebrew slave being beaten. Possibly there was someone else, a real alpha leader among the Hebrews, who did a lot of the dramatic things ascribed to Moses, and the two characters were conflated into one for the sake of good storytelling.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:16 AM (c6xtn)

348 Would not Moses have spoken and written Egyptian?

Yes, but he also knew and was literate in Hebrew in no small part because of his nanny being his mom. He probably spoke a bunch of different languages.

***
Ah! I'd forgotten that. Okay, maybe his nurse/nanny (who was in actuality his mother) might have implanted some strong sympathy for the Hebrews, slaves or not.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (c6xtn)

349 After being kicked out I'm sure he learned the language of his wife.
-------------------
It would cut down on nagging though.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (UHVv4)

350 That would be downright weird.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at May 01, 2022 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)

It was!!

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (yrol0)

351 Huh. Maybe I should've tried that instead.
Posted by: Jim Fixx at May 01, 2022 11:07 AM (Zz0t1)

True story. My husband was a very avid runner right up to age 80. Jim Fixx was a huge hero and running was the secret to near immortality in my husband's circle of friends. On his way home from Manhattan one evening, he learned of Fixx's death. My husband almost immediately developed chest pains, and they stopped the train between stations to hall him off for a night at the The Beth.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (ONvIw)

352 Which is part of why I'm not convinced that Moses would suddenly throw over his position as the most exalted prince in the land to lead the Hebrews just because he saw a Hebrew slave being beaten.

Which is why that's not how it happened. He was unhappy with that event, beat the person doing it too badly and killed him, fled Egypt, spent decades living outside that, had a huge revelation from God which he really fought against with lots of excuses why he could not, then finally went to confront the pharaoh, then left most of the talking to his brother Aaron.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (KZzsI)

353 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:16 AM (c6xtn)

He was in a sibling rivalry and didn't leave on his own choosing.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:19 AM (LG5dc)

354 "One may ignore any obligations, of course."
=====

Like manners, I think you must know the requirements before you can ignore them.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 11:20 AM (MIKMs)

355 After being kicked out I'm sure he learned the language of his wife.
-------------------
It would cut down on nagging though.
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022

***
"You're not listening to me!"

"Wha are you saying??? Speak Egyptian!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:20 AM (c6xtn)

356 OK, I'm off.
Thanks for the enlightening discussion, as always, and thanks to our kind host of the Book Thread, the Perfesser!

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 01, 2022 11:21 AM (jTmQV)

357 Which is why that's not how it happened. He was unhappy with that event, beat the person doing it too badly and killed him, fled Egypt, spent decades living outside that, had a huge revelation from God which he really fought against with lots of excuses why he could not, then finally went to confront the pharaoh, then left most of the talking to his brother Aaron.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022

***
I didn't realize the timeline, or that he fled because he had killed the Egyptian overseer. That gives him a good deal more motivation.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:22 AM (c6xtn)

358 moron James Bartlett should write about a murder at a winery.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:23 AM (LG5dc)

359 " I loved Mori Amsterdam on the Dick Van Dyke Show!
Posted by: andycanuck"

Check out "Uncle Morey's Mixed Up Stories For Smart Kids". I had the album when I was a kid. It's still a hoot. It's on the uoob.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 11:23 AM (vrz2I)

360 It would cut down on nagging though.
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022

***
"You're not listening to me!"

"Wha are you saying??? Speak Egyptian!"
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:20 AM (c6xtn)

You guys are silly. Why would ANY husband need a translator to understand his wife's nagging?

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:23 AM (47mFt)

361 I didn't realize the timeline, or that he fled because he had killed the Egyptian overseer. That gives him a good deal more motivation.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:22 AM (c6xtn)

Did not his FiL trick him onto marrying the older daughter?

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:23 AM (yrol0)

362 I simply don't know enough about the lord of the rings and Christpher Tolkien's follow-on books to Declare Things Not Canon - though Galadriel seems to have multiple origin stories. And Ungoliant is a space alien from the interstices of quantum space (truly).

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 11:24 AM (QcZeT)

363 Cracked open a used book copy of a novel I had read in the early '70's- The Peaceable Kingdom by Jan de Hartog.
It's an admittedly fictionalized account of the beginning of the Quaker movement in 17th cent England and the challenges they faced in mid-17OO's America a century later.

Very long and dense, vivid characters, and an unobtrusive sense of place and time.

For me, this is one reason why re-reading novels is not a waste of time- the insights and understanding that I brought to the book 40+ years later improved the reading experience immensely.

Posted by: sal at May 01, 2022 11:24 AM (bJKUl)

364 "One may ignore any obligations, of course."
=====

Like manners, I think you must know the requirements before you can ignore them.
Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022

***
Exactly. You have to know the rules of grammar before you can bend or even break them effectively. In my writing group, I was continually get dinged for "Sentence fragment!" Hey, man, I've known what a sentence fragment was since I was 8 or 9. I'm writing fiction, not a scholarly article.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:24 AM (c6xtn)

365 Moses was a foreign exchange student.

******

He was fascinated by the intricate and highly effective Egyptian aqueducts and water handling systems.

Yep, in school he was a Pharaoh faucet major.

Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (kXYt5)

366 358 moron James Bartlett should write about a murder at a winery.
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:23 AM (LG5dc)

Blood on the Vines
Crushed Grapes
To Prune Man

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (yrol0)

367
Yep, in school he was a Pharaoh faucet major.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (kXYt5)

shit Mul ha

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:26 AM (yrol0)

368 I loved Mori Amsterdam on the Dick Van Dyke Show!
Posted by: andycanuck"

He was a clever guy.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (ONvIw)

369 Yep, in school he was a Pharaoh faucet major.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (kXYt5)

Heh. Some have claimed he was an angel come to save the Hebrews.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (LG5dc)

370 For me, this is one reason why re-reading novels is not a waste of time- the insights and understanding that I brought to the book 40+ years later improved the reading experience immensely.
Posted by: sal at May 01, 2022 11:24 AM (bJKUl)

My problem with re-reading (or re-watching a movie) is I already know how it ends, so the experience of getting there, I lose my patience and just want them to get on with it.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (47mFt)

371 "There's a short series about a former Gladiator and his slave investigating mysteries by Ashley Gardner, she just started writing the series so there's only a couple books out so far but I enjoy them."

I've read those. They are, indeed, very enjoyable. I keep checking Amazon to see if the author has a new one out. Sadly, nothing yet.

Posted by: Tuna at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (gLRfa)

372 He was fascinated by the intricate and highly effective Egyptian aqueducts and water handling systems.

Yep, in school he was a Pharaoh faucet major.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (kXYt5)
* * * *
*SNORT*

Oh, waiter, I'll have whatever coffee HE'S having please! *points to Muldoon*

Posted by: Legally Sufficient, HONK! Believing in America at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (xT18z)

373 Lee Majors got some seriously good vajaja

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (yrol0)

374 Darn you booksters!

I have spent a lot more than I intended to this past week because of your recommendations.
- two Tom Holland books
- several books from previous recommendations bought at a library sale this week (There's nothing like showing your list to Friends of the Library and they manage to find them in the piles!)
- Processional by David Mamet

I also bought some journals to handwrite the final draft of my WIP, since 3 hours of screentime seems to be the upper limit before the headache is triggered.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at May 01, 2022 11:28 AM (/+bwe)

375 Lee Majors got some seriously good vajaja
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (yrol

Peak vajaja.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:28 AM (LG5dc)

376 Thanks for including Quo Vadis, Perfessor. See you next weekend for Pets, Gardens, and Books.

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 11:28 AM (ONvIw)

377 Lee Majors got some seriously good vajaja
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:27 AM (yrol0)

Up to his eyeballs in poon.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 01, 2022 11:29 AM (NVjgU)

378 " he wrote Bloodlands for whatever reason he completely lost his shit?"

In Snyder's defense, if there's one thing that could do it, it's researching and writing "Bloodlands." I had to put the book down and walk away from it at several points. It really makes you despair of humanity.

Posted by: Donna&&&&&&V at May 01, 2022 11:29 AM (HabA/)

379 He was fascinated by the intricate and highly effective Egyptian aqueducts and water handling systems.

Yep, in school he was a Pharaoh faucet major.
Posted by: Muldoon at May 01, 2022 11:25 AM (kXYt5)

Heh. I hear Moses was also the props guy in the school's production of "The Burning Bed."

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:29 AM (47mFt)

380 Like manners, I think you must know the requirements before you can ignore them.

When I was learning to play the piano my wise mother gave me some very good advice: you have to learn the rules before you can break them. Basically, you have to learn and become proficient at using the rules before you can effectively and skillfully begin to bend or break them and have a proper result.

Patrick O'Brian and Elmore Leonard are good examples of this. Both learned how to write very well, then began to violate all the rules of writing to excellent effect.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:30 AM (KZzsI)

381 Vintage Violations
Snifter Snuffings

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:30 AM (UHVv4)

382 SPQR wasn’t on the short list of recommendations of Roman history?!

Posted by: Brometheus at May 01, 2022 11:31 AM (0J5RN)

383 Ixnay on the Latin deadnay! Late to the party, imma finally reading Mark Levin's American Marxism. Yeah, what he said.

Posted by: Cicero kaboom kid at May 01, 2022 11:32 AM (n/szn)

384 Heh. I hear Moses was also the props guy in the school's production of "The Burning Bed."
Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:29 AM (47mFt)

Poor old Francine. Got to interview her as an undergrad.

Now, I'm really off. Roses to fertilize, dog to walk, and groceries to buy before the rain

Posted by: CN at May 01, 2022 11:32 AM (ONvIw)

385 Murderer's Must

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (UHVv4)

386 When I was learning to play the piano my wise mother gave me some very good advice: you have to learn the rules before you can break them. Basically, you have to learn and become proficient at using the rules before you can effectively and skillfully begin to bend or break them and have a proper result.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:30 AM (KZzsI)

Same with batting stances. Many a kid was ruined by his efforts to imitate guys like Musial, Rose, Yastrzemski, or Carew.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (47mFt)

387 I just started reading it and, hmmm. I looked at the reviews on Amazon and people either love love LOVE it or hate hate HATE it. I just started the third incarnation (if you've read it, you'll understand) and right now I'm leaning towards the hate camp. I'd love to hear what you all have to say if you've read it.
Posted by: bluebell - NoVaMoMe 2022! at May 01, 2022 10:08 AM (wyw4S)

Hated 'Evelyn" so much I chose not to finish it, mostly b/c I didn't care.

Posted by: sal at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (bJKUl)

388 Sono Pazzi Questi Romani!

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (UHVv4)

389 Watching Silence of Lambs

Hannibal just hung up on Clarise

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (yrol0)

390 >>Murderer's Must

Posted by: andycanuck

must what

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:35 AM (geLO8)

391 Its always disappointing and somewhat depressing to me to start a book and realize its terrible or just not what I like to read. My "did not finish" shelf at Goodreads isn't very big but it keeps growing as I try new authors and books.

I'm on this mailing list that sends me lists of books that are offered for very low or free prices. I've found some real gems in there, but sadly most of the time they're worth what they are charging, or less.

I looked into maybe getting one of my books on that list, but they want hundreds of dollars and I cannot imagine selling that many more books to make up for the cost. Plus, I can't afford to throw hundreds of dollars to a book list.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:35 AM (KZzsI)

392 >Hannibal just hung up on Clarise

Posted by: rhennigantx

she's kind of chatty

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (geLO8)

393 Watching Silence of Lambs

Hannibal just hung up on Clarise
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (yrol0)

I don't know where she got her supposed West Virginia accent . I've known a number of people from WV and the accent is unfamiliar to me. Any WV morons here to elaborate?

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (LG5dc)

394 Now watching a Christmas Movie

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (yrol0)

395 Many a kid was ruined by his efforts to imitate guys like Musial, Rose, Yastrzemski, or Carew

If you gotta copy a batting stance, copy guys like Will Clark or Ken Griffey. Dat Swing!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (KZzsI)

396 I'm still reading Peterson's Field Guide

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (geLO8)

397 Timothy Snyder and Ann Applebaum both lots their minds after 2016. Sometime around 2000 the popular publishing industry signaled that it was okay to punch-down on Marxism and Stalin.

So we got a few good books about the interwar period from right-spectrum leftists - though Applebaum's Red Famine is derivative of Robert Conquest's Harvest of Sorrow.

Posted by: 13times at May 01, 2022 11:37 AM (QcZeT)

398 I read enough important crap at work. I read for fun in my spare time.

Just finished the excellent Night Watch series. I had read a few of the first few books a while ago and finally got around to finishing the series (final book came out in 2015).

I’ve also decided to dive back into Glen Cook’s Dread Empire series. Always found it a lot more difficult to read than his better-known Black Company series, but a lot richer world.

I figure Dread Empire should take a few weeks to knock out.

Posted by: egd at May 01, 2022 11:37 AM (cOB2v)

399 Murderer's Must

Posted by: andycanuck

must what
Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:35 AM (geLO

Bought Twitter. It was in all the papers.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:37 AM (47mFt)

400 What cracks me up is that series like Monster Hunter International are unabashedly based, and sell in the bazillion range, while the latest grrl power woke screed is lucky to sell a thousand copies. Yet that's what the publishing companies keep shoveling out the door and hate MHI books.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:38 AM (KZzsI)

401 Hannibal just hung up on Clarise
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (yrol0)

I don't know where she got her supposed West Virginia accent . I've known a number of people from WV and the accent is unfamiliar to me. Any WV morons here to elaborate?
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (LG5dc)

I've never thought much of Foster's acting, but she was darned haut in that movie. If I was Hannibal, I'd want to eat her.... liver.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (47mFt)

402 Was it a book where a squad of Marines somehow ended up in Roman times?

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (LG5dc)

403 >>I don't know where she got her supposed West Virginia accent

well my dad was from far far sw Virginia, coal country, and he had that Appalchin' twang to his speak, but Clarisse is kinda pushing it a little 'futher'

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (geLO8)

404 240 God is referring to itself in the third person plural?

There are several different interpretations why this was done.

1) God was using the royal "we" like Queen Elizabeth does.
2) God was referring to Himself and His angelic hosts
3) God was referring to the trinity: God, Son, Holy Spirit
4) While Elohim has a plural meaning, sometimes its used as singular in the Bible

I'm sure there are other interpretations I've not heard of. The simplest and most natural explanation is either 2 or 3, Christians preferring 3 and Jews preferring 2.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (KZzsI)

Every religion reads between the lines in the Bible.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (Qhnrt)

405 402 Was it a book where a squad of Marines somehow ended up in Roman times?
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (LG5dc)

Roman Bath Platoon

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:40 AM (yrol0)

406 Watching Silence of Lambs

Hannibal just hung up on Clarise
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022

***
Thomas Harris doesn't get the respect as a writer he deserves. Lambs the novel is not only riveting and horrifying, it is beautifully constructed and written. There is a moment after Lecter has escaped and is in his hotel room where Harris writes, "The suite seemed enormous to Dr. Lecter after his long confinement. He enjoyed going to and fro in his suite and walking up and down in it."

Which of course is the same phrase used to describe Satan in the Bible. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:40 AM (c6xtn)

407 must what
---------------------
Mustly yeast -- Murder Most Yeastly

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:40 AM (UHVv4)

408 If you gotta copy a batting stance, copy guys like Will Clark or Ken Griffey. Dat Swing!
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (KZzsI)

When I was a kid, we'd copy Morgan's arm pump or Stargell's big round circle with his bat. Didn't help at all, but it sure looked cool.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 01, 2022 11:40 AM (47mFt)

409 >>I've never thought much of Foster's acting, but she was darned haut in that movie. If I was Hannibal, I'd want to eat her.... liver.

Posted by: BurtTC

in between her 2 Oscar performances, she made one of the worst movies ever, called "Catchfire" with Dennis Hopper. Really bad. But she looked great in it.

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:41 AM (geLO8)

410 well my dad was from far far sw Virginia, coal country, and he had that Appalchin' twang to his speak, but Clarisse is kinda pushing it a little 'futher'
Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (geLO

I figured there were a number of different dialects / accents because of the different regions separated by mountains.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:41 AM (LG5dc)

411 come to the coast
well get together
have a few laughs

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:42 AM (yrol0)

412 93 Watching Silence of Lambs

Hannibal just hung up on Clarise
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:33 AM (yrol0)

I don't know where she got her supposed West Virginia accent . I've known a number of people from WV and the accent is unfamiliar to me. Any WV morons here to elaborate?
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (LG5dc

It's more like the accent heard in Arkansas.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 11:42 AM (Qhnrt)

413 Was it a book where a squad of Marines somehow ended up in Roman times?
=====

Another Eric Flint?

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 01, 2022 11:42 AM (MIKMs)

414 Frank Yuntz is on Media Buzz. I hate to admit I need to watch and mock him.

Posted by: Mean Tweets at May 01, 2022 11:43 AM (BOJAx)

415 Timothy Snyder and Ann Applebaum both lots their minds after 2016.

Trump seems to have badly broken Snyder.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 11:43 AM (y7DUB)

416 410 well my dad was from far far sw Virginia, coal country, and he had that Appalchin' twang to his speak, but Clarisse is kinda pushing it a little 'futher'
Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (geLO

I figured there were a number of different dialects / accents because of the different regions separated by mountains.
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:41 AM (LG5dc)

There is some very scholarly writing of black dialect and the real redneck WV both comes from a way the poor folks of England spoke.

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:44 AM (yrol0)

417 Didn't help at all, but it sure looked cool.

Like the leg kick every kid learns today. Its a timing mechanism, so its not bad, but it doesn't really help any. Looks cool though.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:44 AM (KZzsI)

418 I’ve also decided to dive back into Glen Cook’s Dread Empire series. Always found it a lot more difficult to read than his better-known Black Company series, but a lot richer world.

I figure Dread Empire should take a few weeks to knock out.
Posted by: egd at May 01, 2022 11:37 AM (cOB2v)
---
I just started reading Glen Cook's Instrumentality of the Night series. He throws a lot of names and places at the reader very quickly, so it's a challenge to figure out what's going on. However, it does make more sense in the context of European/Middle Eastern history with the names changed....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 01, 2022 11:44 AM (K5n5d)

419 414 Frank Yuntz is on Media Buzz. I hate to admit I need to watch and mock him.
Posted by: Mean Tweets at May 01, 2022 11:43 AM (BOJAx)

You mean Mrs Gaetz

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:44 AM (yrol0)

420 Thomas Harris also knows when to bend or break the rules. We are told endlessly to stay with one tense in the story; if you are doing past tense, don't suddenly drop into present. But several times in Red Dragon and in Lambs, he suddenly switches to present in describing Lecter: "Dr. Lecter's eyes are maroon and they reflect the light in points of red." It makes the character somehow even more vivid and believable, as if he exists in our world and might cross you path someday.

Harris also switches to present tense in Ch. 5 of Lambs to show the FBI guy Crawford as he waits for his wife to pass away. Very effective.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 01, 2022 11:45 AM (c6xtn)

421 There is some very scholarly writing of black dialect and the real redneck WV both comes from a way the poor folks of England spoke.

Thomas Sowell has a really great section in one of his books about the history of rednecks and the population of the south, coming from west and south poor "white trash" English and such. He notes how their way of speaking (he be, she be, we be, etc) was copied over to the south as well as the culture.

...and how, black slaves stripped of their culture copied the mannerisms and language style of their masters and white culture around them, and for some dumb reason carry it on to this day. How black slaves from the Caribbean islands are different in culture and language, etc. Its actually a very interesting study, and dovetails into my confusion of why black people want to talk like redneck sharecroppers.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:46 AM (KZzsI)

422 There is some very scholarly writing of black dialect and the real redneck WV both comes from a way the poor folks of England spoke.
Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:44 AM (yrol0)

I've also read that the southern accent we associate with the plantation owners derives from the British upper class .

Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:46 AM (LG5dc)

423 John just threw a terrorist out the window

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:48 AM (yrol0)

424 404 240 God is referring to itself in the third person plural?
There are several different interpretations why this was done.
1) God was using the royal "we" like Queen Elizabeth does.
2) God was referring to Himself and His angelic hosts
3) God was referring to the trinity: God, Son, Holy Spirit
4) While Elohim has a plural meaning, sometimes its used as singular in the Bible.
I'm sure there are other interpretations I've not heard of. The simplest and most natural explanation is either 2 or 3, Christians preferring 3 and Jews preferring 2.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:36 AM (KZzsI)

Every religion reads between the lines in the Bible.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 11:39 AM (Qhnrt)

That's a good summary of the possibilities. They all revolve around the fact that culturally, we think of the plural form as meaning "more than one", because in our culture it can't mean anything else. But that's not necessarily true for an ancient language.

Posted by: Tom Servo at May 01, 2022 11:48 AM (r46W7)

425 "Basically, you have to learn and become proficient at using the rules before you can effectively and skillfully begin to bend or break them and have a proper result."

Rules?

Posted by: Yoko at May 01, 2022 11:49 AM (vrz2I)

426 Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:46 AM (KZzsI

Sowell thats him

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:50 AM (yrol0)

427 I don't know where she got her supposed West Virginia accent . I've known a number of people from WV and the accent is unfamiliar to me. Any WV morons here to elaborate?
Posted by: Anti doesn't matterlander at May 01, 2022 11:36 AM (LG5dc

Heavier southern accents south of Buckhannon. North of there is a mix of southern, yinzer, and Appalachian accents.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 01, 2022 11:50 AM (NVjgU)

428 There's a YouTube channel which is nothing but someone reading Sowell's writings in excerpts which I recommend to all. This is the (2 hour) talk about ebonics and modern "black culture"

https://youtu.be/FT4NQ9D0M6w

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:51 AM (KZzsI)

429 Projection is a river in Egypt.
FJB at the WHCD-
“At home, a poison is running through our democracy. … All this taking place with disinformation massively on the rise,” he continued. “But the truth is buried by lies, and the lies live on as truth. What’s clear, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, that you, a free press, matter more than you ever did in the last century.”

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at May 01, 2022 11:52 AM (R8uWY)

430 Rules?

Posted by: Yoko at May 01, 2022 11:49 AM (vrz2I)

Scales...standard harmony...that kinda' stuff.

Posted by: BignJames at May 01, 2022 11:53 AM (AwYPR)

431 Projection is a river in Egypt.

ha

Posted by: rhennigantx at May 01, 2022 11:53 AM (yrol0)

432 I know of a Scottish minister (Sinclair Ferguson) who says that feels most at home in the south of the USA because the accent feels so familiar to him.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:53 AM (KZzsI)

433 425 "Basically, you have to learn and become proficient at using the rules before you can effectively and skillfully begin to bend or break them and have a proper result."

--------------

Truth.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 11:54 AM (Qhnrt)

434 In the deranged mind of Brandon msm lies are truth I guess.

Posted by: Joe Xiden at May 01, 2022 11:54 AM (3vQN0)

435 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement. Apparently it is racist to use capital letters so some leftist lunatics no longer use them.

Posted by: Joe Xiden at May 01, 2022 11:56 AM (3vQN0)

436 How are you doing?
Posted by: Sponge
----

Slow reply, was interrupted by a telephone call. I'm doing well, still trying to claw my back to normal, but in the big scheme of things, doing well.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 01, 2022 11:56 AM (wcs7v)

437 '...my way back to...'

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 01, 2022 11:57 AM (wcs7v)

438 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement.

ee cummings did this in the early 20th century and his writing is nearly incomprehensible as a result. No punctuation, no capitols. Because he was either an ass or a lunatic. Much of early 20th century art and culture was trash.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:57 AM (KZzsI)

439 Article on what happened to Timothy Snyder

tinyurl.com/3ceh8j5t

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at May 01, 2022 11:58 AM (y7DUB)

440 435 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement. Apparently it is racist to use capital letters so some leftist lunatics no longer use them.
Posted by: Joe Xiden at May 01, 2022 11:56 AM (3vQN0)

e e cummings- a man ahead of his time!

Posted by: sal at May 01, 2022 11:58 AM (bJKUl)

441 Ilya Shapiro @ishapiro · 21h
My mortgage identifies as a student loan.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at May 01, 2022 11:58 AM (UHVv4)

442 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement. Apparently it is racist to use capital letters so some leftist lunatics no longer use them.
Posted by: Joe Xiden

At least they are easy to identify. Danger hair, multiple piercings, no capitals.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at May 01, 2022 11:58 AM (R8uWY)

443 Star Trek marathon on Decades TV today. It's the one where Kirk beams down to LA and becomes a cop.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (vrz2I)

444 I went to a local gun show yesterday and was surprised at the number of danger hair antifa types.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (R8uWY)

445 The NIV is kind of infamous for translating "strong drink" as "Beer" because we must not imply that holy men drank booze! Translation choices like that make me grind my teeth.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 10:51 AM (KZzsI)

Probably was beer. Distillation had not yet been discovered. Beer and wine were what people drank, because safer than the water.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (llc0G)

446 432 I know of a Scottish minister (Sinclair Ferguson) who says that feels most at home in the south of the USA because the accent feels so familiar to him.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:53 AM (KZzsI)

I was fortunate to travel to the UK with a group of friends in 2016, we started in London and finished in Edinburgh. We found the London accent heavy and difficult for us at times (this is the one you hear the most) The Scottish accent in Edinburgh was mild and very pleasant. The biggest surprise was the Yorkshire area, where we all agreed that they sounded like some part of the Northern US that we couldn't quite put our finger on.

It suggested to us that a lot of people came here from the Yorkshire region.

Posted by: Tom Servo at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (r46W7)

447 It's the one where Kirk beams down to LA and becomes a cop.

I understand he spends a lot of time clinging to the hood of cars

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (KZzsI)

448 >Heavier southern accents south of Buckhannon. ...

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory

that's where dad was from- Buckhannon Co.

Posted by: DB at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (geLO8)

449 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement. Apparently it is racist to use capital letters so some leftist lunatics no longer use them.
Posted by: Joe Xiden
-----

Uh, I notice that you are still using periods. That's aggressive culturism. You'll be docked Social Status Credits.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 01, 2022 12:00 PM (wcs7v)

450 Nood. Farzrohr.

Posted by: fd at May 01, 2022 12:01 PM (vrz2I)

451 The period is such an abrupt ending It triggers me with its violence

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at May 01, 2022 12:01 PM (R8uWY)

452 I was fortunate to travel to the UK with a group of friends in 2016, we started in London and finished in Edinburgh. We found the London accent heavy and difficult for us at times (this is the one you hear the most) The Scottish accent in Edinburgh was mild and very pleasant. The biggest surprise was the Yorkshire area, where we all agreed that they sounded like some part of the Northern US that we couldn't quite put our finger on.

It suggested to us that a lot of people came here from the Yorkshire region.
Posted by: Tom Servo at May 01, 2022 11:59 AM (r46W7)

You almost need a translator in the middle of the country.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at May 01, 2022 12:01 PM (NVjgU)

453 We haz a Nood

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 12:02 PM (2JoB8)

454 Not even fast at Nood today

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 12:02 PM (2JoB8)

455 440 435 Have any if you heard about the no capitals movement. Apparently it is racist to use capital letters so some leftist lunatics no longer use them.
Posted by: Joe Xiden at May 01, 2022 11:56 AM (3vQN0)

There are a few that comment here who have that problem. And it is a problem.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 12:03 PM (Qhnrt)

456 I find language and accents, slang etc fascinating, and it peeks out in every one of my books because I cant help it. The most obvious is Old Habits where I tried to show how the main character was from a different part of the world than the area he was in, and his grammar and word choice is different than usual. I got some complaints in reviews that the word choice was odd and confusing, so apparently the idea didn't carry over as well as I'd hoped.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 12:03 PM (KZzsI)

457 In the deranged mind of Brandon msm lies are truth I guess.

-
It's like a time machine. The truth is found to be lies and I want somebody to love.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter 2022 at May 01, 2022 12:07 PM (FVME7)

458 Clearly i was i being sarcastic about frankenstein

Posted by: No 6 at May 01, 2022 12:15 PM (hMlTh)

459 There are a few that comment here who have that problem. And it is a problem.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 01, 2022 12:03 PM (Qhnrt)

Could be the "virtual" keyboard on smart phones. Which are actually very stupid.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 01, 2022 12:15 PM (MLgWJ)

460 you have to be some kind of snob to blame the XX cent on ee cummngs without even mentioning archy or mehitabel.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at May 01, 2022 12:21 PM (videA)

461 allow me to recommend the SPQR series by John Maddox Roberts. His main character, Decius Caecilius Metellus, is convincingly thuggish and the other characters mostly ring true for me. His wife, a (fictional) niece of Julius Caesar, is maybe a little bit too "liberated", but given her family background a little bossiness isn't that far out of character.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

Seconded!!!
So much fun. Just 2 to go btw.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 12:22 PM (5IT5y)

462 (I apologize for the delay in answering, but because of the timing of Mass, I don't usually get here until about 9:30 Pacific time)

Regarding the editing out of the radio thief's name, I easily found him on the internet along with his children and grandchildren's names. This was apparently his only indiscretion as a yute and he lived the straight and narrow for the rest of his life.

I didn't want to be responsible for some kid or even adult looking up grandpa and finding he was a common thief one time as a teenager.

Posted by: Peter (My friends call me Pete) Zah at May 01, 2022 12:34 PM (a4vvV)

463 Julia Caesar seems pretty reasonable as a character, given her background and family. They weren't exactly normal Romans and gave their women a lot more leeway than usual. I love the SPQR series.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at May 01, 2022 12:38 PM (KZzsI)

464 Forgot to bring up 1984, I read that in probably 10th grade and wonder if I should read it again.

Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 12:49 PM (2JoB8)

465 Forgot to bring up 1984, I read that in probably 10th grade and wonder if I should read it again.
Posted by: Skip at May 01, 2022 12:49 PM (2JoB

I started it again a year or so ago, and found it horribly bleak, especially since it's so spot on with what's happening now. I decided to move on to less dystopian books.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Gen X Ne'er-Do-Well at May 01, 2022 12:50 PM (x8Wzq)

466 To follow up the raging success of my first book (Combat Engineer, which has sold almost several copies!), I am trying to convince a friend to let me write about his family's service in WWII. And I want to change publishe

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goatexchange, I missed this. Link???

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 12:52 PM (CjLzK)

467 Roman history is quite obviously a passionate subject for many of you.

I think that shithead Gibbon ruined it for me.
Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt

Hoot ?

Bob ?

Debbie ?
Posted by: JT at May 01, 2022 09:11 AM

Funky!

Posted by: Cybersmythe at May 01, 2022 12:55 PM (wpoHi)

468 Greetings:

I've pretty much gotten my PLSD (Post Librarian Stress Disorder) under control these days. But in a kind of weird way, I miss the "Sssussh" and "No running in the library" and, most of all "The next time you come to the library bring your parents.".

My parents, on the other hand, almost always seemed pleased when I told them that I had been to the library.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 01:05 PM (uuklp)

469 464 Forgot to bring up 1984, I read that in probably 10th grade and wonder if I should read it again.

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Read it? You're living in it!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 01:11 PM (CjLzK)

470 Greetings:

Marines in Ancient Rome ???

Sonny Chiba's GI Samurai - Post war Japs in ancient Samurai times

Posted by: 11B40 at May 01, 2022 01:11 PM (uuklp)

471 Marines in Ancient Rome ???

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There is a scifi book where a bunch of modern day Marines get thrown into a time portal in which other groups from other time periods have also ended up, including a bunch of Roman soldiers

Can't remember title or author but it was published in the 21st century I think

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 01:16 PM (CjLzK)

472 vMom: Michael Z. Williamson's _A Long Time Until Now_? I sort of have the audiobook to that.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Cryptid Anarchist at May 01, 2022 01:19 PM (E57Xa)

473 I actually have something for the Book Thread for once! It's getting willowed, but I'm still posting it.

Yesterday my order of the three Guild Wars books (Ghosts of Ascalon, Edge of Destiny, Sea of Sorrows) arrived. I've read the two that were published in 2011 and 2012 when they came out, but never the one from 2013. They did a fantastic job of introducing the world and gameplay without going into specifics like skills and attributes. Plus the writing was great ("You're the jackass brother I never had!").

Posted by: pookysgirl, GW2 fan...atic at May 01, 2022 01:30 PM (XKZwp)

474 CBD is up.

Posted by: Ciampino at May 01, 2022 02:04 PM (qfLjt)

475 Posted by: pookysgirl, GW2 fan...atic at May 01, 2022 01:30 PM (XKZwp)

Heh. Son #2 is an yuge GuildWars fan.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Gen X Ne'er-Do-Well at May 01, 2022 02:17 PM (x8Wzq)

476 472 vMom: Michael Z. Williamson's _A Long Time Until Now_? I sort of have the audiobook to that.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain

Omg yes that's it!
And now I find there's a book 2 that came out last year - thanks!!!!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 02:27 PM (CjLzK)

477 He throws a lot of names and places at the reader very quickly, so it's a challenge to figure out what's going on.

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It definitely takes a while to get used to his writings. It's probably my favorite part of his writing style. This is the world and you're in it. No one is going to explain everything for you.

Stephen Erikson (Malazan) was definitely inspired by Cook.

Posted by: egd at May 01, 2022 03:34 PM (cOB2v)

478 I will add my voice to the recommendations for John Maddox Roberts excellent SPQR historical mystery series (@262, 382,461 and 462). I have just recently been working my way through these (my local library does not have 3 of them so I am going to have to find used copies). One of things I enjoy about these stories (aside from the very solid historical background) is the way in which everyone else regards Decius Caecilius Metellus (the investigator/hero) as something of a weirdo for his insistence on finding out who actually committed the murders (and why). Rather than just using them to attack their political enemies (or preventing their enemies from using accusations of murder to attack them) which is almost everyone else's primary concern.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at May 01, 2022 03:59 PM (Xjtag)

479 John F. MacMichael , my local library only had 2 in the SPQR series but I was able to find a library with Libby (app) that had almost all of them.

I try to join libraries with ebooks when I can

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 04:40 PM (GXTsi)

480 vmom @479, thank you for the recommendation.

Ironically, I first got a Kindle because years ago I checked to see if my library had a certain book and was annoyed to discover they only had it as an ebook. I grumped about this to my gf. This was not long before Christmas. Christmas morning we were unwrapping presents and I was startled to find that she had given me a Kindle (among other things).

My initial reaction to this new gadget was much like that of the apes to the Monolith in the opening scene of 2001. Warily circling it, grunting in bewilderment and finally reaching out a trembling finger to touch it. Now it has become "my Precious...". I rarely leave the house without it. I still love having physical books but convenience of having a library I can carry in my pocket is still a marvel to me.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at May 01, 2022 05:35 PM (Xjtag)

481 My initial reaction to this new gadget was much like that of the apes to the Monolith in the opening scene of 2001. Warily circling it, grunting in bewilderment and finally reaching out a trembling finger to touch it.
Posted by: John F. MacMichael

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 01, 2022 06:03 PM (kf6Ak)

482 Ӏf some one wishes to be updated with newest technologies after that he must be go to see this
web site and Ƅe up to datе everyday.

Posted by: stimulate at May 03, 2022 07:03 PM (iiD/o)

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