France's Hissy-Fit, Australia's Duplicitousness, And Biden's Drooling...A Pox On All Their Houses!

America and The United Kingdom (and its convicts) have been military and social allies since before World War I. Although we are separated by oceans and a common language, the relationship has been a powerful one.

While our relationship with France has been benign for far longer...since the Revolutionary War!, France has occasionally acted at cross-purposes to America and its other allies. For instance, during the American War of The Rebellion, France sent an army into Mexico which required a response from America. More recently France's longstanding relationship with the Arab world placed them at odds with American efforts against Iraq. De Gaulle's influence over French foreign policy forced an aggressive independence from its 20th century allies, that seemed more like childish petulance than thoughtful geopolitics. They were quite conveniently protected by NATO during the Cold War even though they withdrew from the treaty in the 1960s.

Australia cancelled a very large and lucrative contract for several French submarines that was part of a larger effort by both countries to counter Chinese expansion into the South Pacific. France got upset...very upset, and at first glance they do have a point.

France Accuses Biden Admin, Australia Of 'Lying, 'Duplicity' In What Is Now A 'Serious Crisis

The issue that sparked this entire ordeal was Australia's decision to cancel a multi-billion-dollar contract with the French to acquire conventional submarines built by France. However, the Biden administration, seeking to counter China's growing influence and military prowess in the region, formed a new technology-sharing alliance with Australia and the U.K.

A more measured and astute approach would have been an expansion of all four country's capabilities in the South Pacific while still recognizing the advantages of American nuclear powered submarines over their French diesel competitors. Including France (and its industry) in a larger strategic alliance would seem to be a reasonable accommodation that strenghtens all involved.

But then France's foreign minister just had to say something stupid and nasty and oh-so-deep stateish...

Immediately following the announcement of the new pact, Le Drian complained, “This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of what Mr. Trump used to do.”
Amazing. President Trump would have seen the inherent advantages to a larger alliance to counter the Chinese threat, and I am confident that he could have made a deal...a huge and luxurious and mutually beneficial deal that would have included all parties. There is a huge difference between placing tariffs on imported goods as part of a larger effort to improve American manufacturing (something that all countries do on occasion) and what the Biden junta has done...rejecting one ally for another. It is a testament to the degree to which President Trump changed the dynamic of America's relationship with the world that an action that is remotely upsetting to France is immediately linked to Trump.

What's next...a phylloxera outbreak in France's vineyards will be blamed on President Trump? Or maybe some surveillance tape will be discovered that shows President Trump setting fire to Notre Dame!

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM




Comments

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1 4th

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:00 AM (2JoB8)

2 Well done Skip!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:01 AM (OChGz)

3
Your French diesel sub. Built by Citroen.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 11:01 AM (/U27+)

4 Well we could send them all of the small pox infected illegals streaming across the Texas border, that will give them a pox.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at September 19, 2021 11:02 AM (JUOKG)

5 Norms Restored!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at September 19, 2021 11:02 AM (PiwSw)

6 As Anna said ( more or less) France was done in by their like kind back room dealing

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:03 AM (2JoB8)

7 Well France is killing tangos and we're killing kids and running home.

Posted by: dnice at September 19, 2021 11:03 AM (rBuEs)

8 The frogs can eat all the dicks. Who was undermining ME policy for years, trading with Iran, etc. I like to see stinkfinger with egg on his face as much as the next guy, but screw France.

Posted by: flounder at September 19, 2021 11:04 AM (KnJdm)

9 hiya

Posted by: JT at September 19, 2021 11:04 AM (arJlL)

10 Immediately following the announcement of the new pact, Le Drian complained, "This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of what Mr. Trump used to do."

I want the reporters, when they hear this kind of shit, to immediately ask for specific examples - name the thing that Trump did that was exactly like this. Also, I want a magic pony.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 19, 2021 11:04 AM (P4LRL)

11 Your French diesel sub. Built by Citroen.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 11:01 AM (/U27+)

Can we get in on this deal?

Posted by: Lucas Electronics at September 19, 2021 11:05 AM (4I/2K)

12 Australia is a puppet state of China. They're not going to do anything about the "China threat."

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:05 AM (/ikTA)

13
France is pissed because all their bribes are now wasted. The Aussies didn't stay bought.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 11:05 AM (/U27+)

14 Question - the deal the Aussies had with France were for "conventional" subs (diesel electric, not nuclear)?

With today's advanced technology that the US has, and China stole, anybody setting sail on a diesel sub better have their will and obituary written.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - FJB at September 19, 2021 11:05 AM (D3cJf)

15 Not sure how "Treason" would be an apt description. Must be something lost in translation.

Posted by: Javems at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (AmoqO)

16 Also, I want a magic pony.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 19, 2021 11:04 AM (P4LRL)

I am confident that he was referring to tariffs or something equally trivial.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (Q9lwr)

17 Two things in this deal not sure of but read
1 is it for 2040
2 was it started by President Trump?
Deals don't seem to be made on just a weekend call

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (2JoB8)

18 That was probably the best insult to Biden that Le Adrian could come up with. I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (axyOa)

19 Looked at another way Biden's Australia sub deal will allow/force France to work more closely with the Iranian's.
That's mission accomplished for the Deep State and Never-met-a-extremist-I-didn't-like Kerry.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:07 AM (OChGz)

20 anybody setting sail on a diesel sub better have their will and obituary written.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - FJB at September 19, 2021 11:05 AM (D3cJf)

Diesel subs are amazingly quiet, but they simply don't have the underwater range that nukes have...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:07 AM (Q9lwr)

21 Also, I want a magic pony.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 19, 2021 11:04 AM (P4LRL)

You got one. Its called a harley. lol

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 19, 2021 11:07 AM (VwHCD)

22 France has never been a stable ally to any nation.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:08 AM (Fs5vw)

23 Does France project military force into the South Pacific? It sure seems to make sense for Australia to prefer closer ties to the USA ... and there is surely other tech they get besides the nuke capacity of the subs.

New Zealand already announce nuke subs are to be excluded from their waters, as they already did with the USA (but they still expect our protection, nonetheless).

Posted by: illiniwek at September 19, 2021 11:08 AM (Cus5s)

24 Burt TC - Sundowner is China's lackey and not doing anything against them ( so see #17)

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:08 AM (2JoB8)

25 I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (axyOa)

Hmmm....that didn't occur to me.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:08 AM (Q9lwr)

26 Australia is a puppet state of China. They're not going to do anything about the "China threat."
Posted by: BurtTC

Australia might have gotten a wake up call when China refused coal from Australia.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:09 AM (OChGz)

27
But then France's foreign minister just had to say something stupid

...like I love you.

Posted by: Ol' blue eyes at September 19, 2021 11:09 AM (63Dwl)

28 That was probably the best insult to Biden that Le Adrian could come up with. I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.
Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (axyOa)

Yeah, I kinda think it was a "your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries" comment.

Meant as a taunt, not a genuine comparison.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:09 AM (/ikTA)

29 25 I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (axyOa)

Hmmm....that didn't occur to me.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:08 AM (Q9lwr)


Two words: Jerry Lewis.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at September 19, 2021 11:09 AM (PiwSw)

30 As far as I'm concerned we have no allies. We, and by "we" I mean us deplorables, are the only allies we have. Let us make use of that simple fact.

Posted by: Jak Sucio at September 19, 2021 11:10 AM (jvt6t)

31 I like the French. I worked with some of their people over the years when I was in the army. Good troops.
That said, their intelligence collection against foreign business is extremely aggressive. Not uncommon for US contractors to be in France and if staying at the same hotel to be assigned the same room. And you can bet your room is searched every day. The French aren't even subtle about it.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:11 AM (axyOa)

32 I heard some (woman) EU leader talk of this, noting that it again enforces that the EU must work to strengthen its own defenses ... or something like that. ... yes, they should stop depending on using US as a 911 response team and umbrella protection rider, while economically profiting from Iran or Russia.

Posted by: illiniwek at September 19, 2021 11:12 AM (Cus5s)

33 Australia is a puppet state of China. They're not going to do anything about the "China threat."
Posted by: BurtTC

Australia might have gotten a wake up call when China refused coal from Australia.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:09 AM (OChGz)

The fly does tend to get a wakeup call, when he's stuck in the spider's web.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:12 AM (/ikTA)

34 while economically profiting from Iran or Russia.

Embrace something-or-other...

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:13 AM (OChGz)

35 I am confident that he was referring to tariffs or something equally trivial.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (Q9lwr)


It seemed like it was directly in response to the defense pact though.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 19, 2021 11:13 AM (P4LRL)

36
I like the French. I worked with some of their people over the years when I was in the army. Good troops.

___________

I'm sure it's the same most places. The rank and file are good folks. The leadership consists of idiots.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (/U27+)

37 Morning.

We've still got three and a quarter more years of shit like this to look forward to.

At least my vodka headache is finally gone.

Posted by: Robert *Be Ungovernable* - Iron Maiden, Senjutsu, OUT NOW!!! at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (1Yy3c)

38 As far as I'm concerned we have no allies. We, and by "we" I mean us deplorables, are the only allies we have. Let us make use of that simple fact.
Posted by: Jak Sucio at September 19, 2021 11:10 AM (jvt6t)

And as far as I'm concerned, there isn't ANY foreign intrigue going on right now, that I want ANY entanglement with.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (/ikTA)

39 The French aren't even subtle about it.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:11 AM (axyOa)

I may be wrong, but that sort of circumspection just seems prudent for a nation that is serious about its continued viability. As far as I am concerned, foreigners should expect little in the way of broader domestic rights, except perhaps those secured by treaty with their home country.

Posted by: flounder at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (KnJdm)

40 I am confident that he was referring to tariffs or something equally trivial.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (Q9lwr)

It seemed like it was directly in response to the defense pact though.
Posted by: hogmartin

Oh, oh, I know, I know! Leave Nato... oh, yeah...

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (OChGz)

41 Australia is a puppet state of China. They're not going to do anything about the "China threat."
Posted by: BurtTC

If true, then our new deal effectively gives our nuclear subs to China. Knowing our current government, this fits. Also 10% to the Big Guy.

Posted by: Taqiyyologist, Rickrolled by Jesus at September 19, 2021 11:15 AM (OssQ4)

42 That was probably the best insult to Biden that Le Adrian could come up with. I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.
Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:06 AM (axyOa)


Agreed. Thought of the thing that would upset Dementia Joe the most.

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (ySQBZ)

43 If we had any allies we most likely don't anymore

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (2JoB8)

44 The funny part of this story is at the rate Australia is ruining their economy, they won't be able to pay for a row boat in five years.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (4thlk)

45 Remember when Trump was destroying NATO by asking them to pay the $they owed?

Good times

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (ySQBZ)

46

France would have known Australia had "deep and grave concerns" that a submarine fleet the French were building would not meet Australian needs, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Sunday after the contract's cancellation set off a diplomatic crisis.

Morrison blamed the switch on a deteriorating strategic environment in the Indo-Pacific. He has not specifically referred to China's massive military buildup, which has gained pace in recent years.

Australia's first nuclear submarines are not expected to be delivered until close to 2040.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (63Dwl)

47 "Or maybe some surveillance tape will be discovered that shows President Trump setting fire to Notre Dame!

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM"

Don't give them any ideas CBD!!

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (Vxu+H)

48 37 Robert - Low light was on?

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (2JoB8)

49 If true, then our new deal effectively gives our nuclear subs to China. Knowing our current government, this fits. Also 10% to the Big Guy.
Posted by: Taqiyyologist, Rickrolled by Jesus at September 19, 2021 11:15 AM (OssQ4)

At this point I'd just assume the Pentagon is giving all our tech to China already.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (/ikTA)

50 While our relationship with France has been benign for far longer...since the Revolutionary War!,

Why do people keep saying this? You know that we fought two wars against France between the Revolution and now, right?

Posted by: Wikitorix at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (smNyD)

51
The fly does tend to get a wakeup call, when he's stuck in the spider's web.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:12 AM (/ikTA)


A fly caught in the spider's web will soon be sucking arachnid dick.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (Fs5vw)

52 30 As far as I'm concerned we have no allies. We, and by "we" I mean us deplorables, are the only allies we have. Let us make use of that simple fact.
Posted by: Jak Sucio at September 19, 2021 11:10 AM (jvt6t)


The French, just to tweak Biden, might welcome Florida and Texas to open up a "Joint Travel and Tourism Bureau." You know...to promote trade and stuff.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (axyOa)

53 I could be wrong but I don't think the French are that stupid.

=====

Sure they are. Mrs Macron and Mrs Biden are a 'separated at birth' pair spitefully pulling various strings. Have to say that Mrs Biden has the edge on fashion, but Mrs Macron has the edge in experience. Women of a certain age who have the same hair color and style are vicious and I think it really boils down to which one has better control over their puppet. Dick-measuring, so to speak.

Posted by: mustbequantum at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (MIKMs)

54 A fly caught in the spider's web will soon be sucking arachnid dick.
Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (Fs5vw)


You should not write fortune cookies.

Posted by: hogmartin at September 19, 2021 11:19 AM (P4LRL)

55 At this point I'd just assume the Pentagon is giving all our tech to China already.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (/ikTA)

That might be true if the pentagon had access to sub tech. They don't.

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:19 AM (ySQBZ)

56 A fly caught in the spider's web will soon be sucking arachnid dick.
Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (Fs5vw)


Help me! Heeelp meee! What?

Posted by: David Hedison at September 19, 2021 11:19 AM (PiwSw)

57 45 Remember when Trump was destroying NATO by asking them to pay the $they owed?

Good times

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (ySQBZ)

I'm old enough to remember Trump sitting at a table with our NATO allies' leaders gathering around him like he was their king. That was good times.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - FJB at September 19, 2021 11:20 AM (D3cJf)

58 China basically owns Australia now, so we're selling them nuke subs through a wholesaler.

Posted by: Crazy Eddie at September 19, 2021 11:20 AM (IOXo1)

59 Why do people keep saying this? You know that we fought two wars against France between the Revolution and now, right?

Posted by: Wikitorix at September 19, 2021 11:18 AM (smNyD)

Yes...we had some naval spats in the 1790s, but by and large the relationship has been fairly good.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:20 AM (Q9lwr)

60 Yes...we had some naval spats in the 1790s, but by and large the relationship has been fairly good.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:20 AM (Q9lwr)

Paging Charles de Gaulle, please pick up the white phone.

Posted by: Jak Sucio at September 19, 2021 11:22 AM (jvt6t)

61 At this point I'd just assume the Pentagon is giving all our tech to China already.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (/ikTA)

That might be true if the pentagon had access to sub tech. They don't.
Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:19 AM (ySQBZ)

You're saying the military doesn't have access to military technology? How does that work?

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:22 AM (/ikTA)

62 46
Australia's first nuclear submarines are not expected to be delivered until close to 2040.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (63Dwl)

Taiwan will have fallen by then.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - FJB at September 19, 2021 11:22 AM (D3cJf)

63 I have been to Australia before and did not get the feeling that they were China's puppet. Remember Australia also contributed troops to Vietnam.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:23 AM (mpXpK)

64 I may be wrong, but that sort of circumspection just seems prudent for a nation that is serious about its continued viability. As far as I am concerned, foreigners should expect little in the way of broader domestic rights, except perhaps those secured by treaty with their home country.
Posted by: flounder at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (KnJdm)
***

Good point.
When I worked for a large NW-based airplane company, my trips to France were fun. Especially since I knew what to look for. In counter-surveillance. Several colleagues actually caught them in the act. A dude in a suit, a cop, and the hotel security guy opening the room safe while she was in the shower.
Said company then prohibited anyone taking any computer without a removable hard drive.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:23 AM (axyOa)

65 "War of The Rebellion" triggers me, so racisms or something!

Posted by: Harrumph! at September 19, 2021 11:23 AM (IOXo1)

66 About ten years ago we worked with the French to retake Mali - the French just needed US air transportation to drop their troops at the site - which says a lot about the lack of their ability to project power.

Also recall a French squad in Afghanistan getting ambushed and slaughtered. I think Michael Yon wrote about it in detail.

Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 11:24 AM (WZs8y)

67 Yes...we had some naval spats in the 1790s, but by and large the relationship has been fairly good.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:20 AM (Q9lwr)

Yup. A good relationship as long as we pay for everything.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:25 AM (Fs5vw)

68 the french have had several spy rings, there was the sapphire group, the basis for the uris book and hitchcock film, topaz, the john forsyth character was supposedly based on angleton,
about 20 years later there was the fairwell operation, which the max zorin character was loosely based on,

Posted by: alien covenant was much worse at September 19, 2021 11:25 AM (hMlTh)

69 but by and large the relationship has been fairly good
=====

'Lafayette, we are here!'

Posted by: mustbequantum at September 19, 2021 11:25 AM (MIKMs)

70 Australia....just a tourist trap now.

They have been killing tourist in horror movies there for decades.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at September 19, 2021 11:26 AM (T1fV4)

71 Yes...we had some naval spats in the 1790s, but by and large the relationship has been fairly good.

Also, go look up Operation Torch and see who it was that was killing American soldiers.

Posted by: Wikitorix at September 19, 2021 11:26 AM (smNyD)

72 Yes...we had some naval spats in the 1790s, but by and large the relationship has been fairly good.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Is this where there is a discussion of the French sucking us into their war in Indochina and then bailing out leaving us in the quagmire?

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:27 AM (OChGz)

73 I don't know if this is a man bites dog story or what but Ford's Theater attacks Lincoln.

https://bit.ly/2XzVNuA

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at September 19, 2021 11:27 AM (d9FiS)

74 Why would they make a deal with the US, when Biden has given all our tech to the Chinese?
And they'll have it for sale at half the price in a year?

Posted by: Lrrr at September 19, 2021 11:27 AM (jIL4c)

75 Just don't but secondhand subs from the Brits! The wiring sucks just like for Jaguars!
https://tinyurl.com/3pmke8fd

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 11:27 AM (UHVv4)

76 The French are helping the Brazilians construct nuclear boats. Should have offered the same to the Aussies.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 11:28 AM (QMwOT)

77 Anyway, did anyone say, "Fuck Joe Biden?"

Posted by: Lrrr at September 19, 2021 11:28 AM (jIL4c)

78 70 Australia....just a tourist trap now.

They have been killing tourist in horror movies there for decades.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at September 19, 2021 11:26 AM (T1fV4)

Not to mention the snakes and spiders in Australia chase YOU.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - FJB at September 19, 2021 11:28 AM (D3cJf)

79 Can't do shit down here, mate. We're all in the coof camps.

Posted by: Oz at September 19, 2021 11:28 AM (Xrfse)

80 45 Remember when Trump was destroying NATO by asking them to pay the $they owed?

Good times

Posted by: dagny, first of her name at September 19, 2021 11:16 AM (ySQBZ)

I think WWII is long over and we should stop shoring up Western Europe's non participation. There is an urge to keep fighting that war and its aftermath, but we fail to see today's threats.

I was not surprised to see Milley skate. It's hard to make the case that the nation that does most of your manufacturing is the "enemy".

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:29 AM (ONvIw)

81 I wrote by 2040 Australia will be getting a nuclear sub from the
Union of Soviet States of Amerika instead of Caliphate of Francistan

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (2JoB8)

82 I notice the word Vichy is absent from your list of French misdeeds (to be polite)

Posted by: Doug at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (fMIKy)

83 Yup. A good relationship as long as we pay for everything.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:25 AM (Fs5vw)

No argument from me. My current geopolitical stance is pretty much, "FVCK ALL OF YOU!"

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (Q9lwr)

84 Low light was on?
Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (2JoB

No, I didn't have nearly enough water. But it's cool. I got coffee. And I might sound like an eight year old but this Fruity Pebbles flavored coffee creamer is great!

Posted by: Robert *Be Ungovernable* - Iron Maiden, Senjutsu, OUT NOW!!! at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (1Yy3c)

85
anyone see the vid of the Capital Police arresting a Fed yesterday?

ha ha


almost as funny as the pic of different FEDs all wearing the same JCrew looking shit

Posted by: will choose a nic later at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (bTQ72)

86 The French aren't even subtle about it.
---------------------------------

Posted by: the rainbow warrior at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (UHVv4)

87 80 I was not surprised to see Milley skate. It's hard to make the case that the nation that does most of your manufacturing is the "enemy".

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:29 AM (ONvIw)

Recall that Japan had a massive amount of trade with the US before WWII.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:31 AM (mpXpK)

88 The French are helping the Brazilians construct nuclear boats. Should have offered the same to the Aussies.
Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 11:28 AM (QMwOT)

Truly, all of this sounds like used car salesmen arguing over who get to sell which clunker to whom. Has next to nothing to do with whether the customer has reliable transportation or not. Make a buck. Or whatever shitty currency the french and aussies use.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:31 AM (/ikTA)

89 I recall reading several years ago that, after the US, France was the world's biggest arms dealer.

Posted by: Lrrr at September 19, 2021 11:31 AM (jIL4c)

90 Is this where there is a discussion of the French sucking us into their war in Indochina and then bailing out leaving us in the quagmire?

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:27 AM (OChGz)

Not to mention the stupid Arab Spring and Libya. We don't need any help effing stuff up like that.

Posted by: flounder at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (KnJdm)

91 75:
The Canadians found this out the hard way.
Now we gotta get them to buy a few Virginia class boats.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (QMwOT)

92 I think WWII is long over and we should stop shoring up Western Europe's non participation. There is an urge to keep fighting that war and its aftermath, but we fail to see today's threats.
Posted by: CN

Follow the money: who benefits from keeping all those solders in Nato countries?
The Cheney's and their friends.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (OChGz)

93 Remember Australia also contributed troops to Vietnam.
Posted by: Vic

Lot can change in a half-century.

Posted by: Taqiyyologist, Rickrolled by Jesus at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (OssQ4)

94 Did business withthe French and Italians in Russia years ago - when you trust the Russians the most, you know you have issues.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at September 19, 2021 11:33 AM (oWBc3)

95 Waste of time, money and effort.

This is just a way of moving money to crooked defense firms.

Australia ain't gonna do jack with squat.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at September 19, 2021 11:34 AM (R/m4+)

96 The Canadians found this out the hard way.
Now we gotta get them to buy a few Virginia class boats.
Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (QMwOT)


Mrs D and I would take trips to Victoria from time to time. Beautiful city. Always rode the ferry from Seattle. And would always see a Canadian patrol boat moving very slowly in the Straight. At about the same place the subs would of been transiting.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:35 AM (axyOa)

97 A) well Trump does have a winery. Yes one of his sons owns it but the name is Trump.

B) In much of world techno commerce, it is us vs. the French. They are second to us in military sales (at least the use to be, who knows now considering China), and second to us in pharma sales. Both countries go at it like a very hot, Cold War.

Peeling off the Brits is a good move really. They where a big part of the Euro Airbus/military cabal. No question they have been smart enough to be in it with us as well. Rolls Royce has worked with Americans on defense for decades.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:35 AM (Ks/+3)

98 Follow the money: who benefits from keeping all those solders in Nato countries?
The Cheney's and their friends.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (OChGz)

Why, it's almost as if to our elites, everything in politics has nothing to do with what they say it does, and everything to do with enriching themselves and keeping us enslaved.

Almost.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:35 AM (/ikTA)

99 And let's not forget the mighty aircraft carrier, the pride and joy of Frogland, the de Gaulle, dropped the driveline and the propeller fell off when they tried to do burnouts to impress the other Continentals.

Posted by: Lrrr at September 19, 2021 11:36 AM (jIL4c)

100 Best spin: France has probably been playing footsie with China, Russia and Iran on an array of stuff. Security, economy, etc. France is an inconsistent ally at best. France had it coming.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at September 19, 2021 11:36 AM (V8JPv)

101 I may be wrong, but that sort of circumspection just seems prudent for a nation that is serious about its continued viability. As far as I am concerned, foreigners should expect little in the way of broader domestic rights, except perhaps those secured by treaty with their home country.
Posted by: flounder at September 19, 2021 11:14 AM (KnJdm)


But I expect they get really pissy when you put rat-traps in among your folded underwear

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (ssx3L)

102 My Dad fought against the French in Algeria in 1942. Some actually fought, for a while.

Posted by: Javems at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (AmoqO)

103 If Trump was in....everybody wins except for the egos of tyrants..

But noooo. We have to live this fake The Stand type reality.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (T1fV4)

104 How many "insurrectionists" were there on January 6th? Aren't most of them in jail? Who's left to riot?

Posted by: Mean Tweets at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (vGJY7)

105 Recall that Japan had a massive amount of trade with the US before WWII.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:31 AM (mpXpK)

This is true, but I don't think you'll find much support in DC for China is the Enemy.

Manufacturers are using the "responsibly made in China" BS to the hilt to keep profits up, and they will not support China loathing.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (ONvIw)

106 A) well Trump does have a winery. Yes one of his sons owns it but the name is Trump


Pretty good wine too.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:38 AM (axyOa)

107 Lot can change in a half-century.
Posted by: Taqiyyologist, Rickrolled by Jesus at September 19, 2021 11:32 AM (OssQ4)

*Looks at the woman laying in bed next to me*

You ain't kidding.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:38 AM (/ikTA)

108 104 How many "insurrectionists" were there on January 6th? Aren't most of them in jail? Who's left to riot?
Posted by: Mean Tweets at September 19, 2021 11:37 AM (vGJY7)

The FBI in MAGA drag

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (ONvIw)

109
hey man it does not matter the Chaiman of the JCS called the china to tell them when we might surprise attach them, at this point nothing is not possible

Posted by: will choose a nic later at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (bTQ72)

110 Welp, my next-door neighbor is in the middle of her all-day Opus to Yard Implements in D minor. FML

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (Xrfse)

111 I don't blame France for invoking the Cursed Name of the Devil Trump. Biden and his handlers have paper thin skin and calling them Trumpists might actually work. France is just playing a diplomatic card.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (FvCkv)

112 And let's not forget the mighty aircraft carrier, the pride and joy of Frogland, the de Gaulle, dropped the driveline and the propeller fell off when they tried to do burnouts to impress the other Continentals.
Posted by: Lrrr at September 19, 2021 11:36 AM (jIL4c)

Is nothink. We burn tires to make Admiral Kuznetsov fastest carrier ever!

Go Baby! Black smoke make us invisidible!

Posted by: Vlad Putin at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (R/m4+)

113
Pretty good wine too.
Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:38 AM (axyOa)

Yep, kid2 went there for a birthday. Loved it

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (ONvIw)

114 12 Australia is a puppet state of China. They're not going to do anything about the "China threat."

Yeah, no. The Victorian state government, yes. They're commies. More so than the Chinese.

Australia itself, not a chance. We're in the middle of a trade war with China, and we're winning. They can't feed themselves, and they can't supply their own industries with raw materials.

They could opt to march in and take it, of course. Hence the nuclear sub fleet.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (MqQvv)

115
There is a scene in Leon Panetta's memoir where he talks about Susan Rice screaming F YOU at a French diplomat.

Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (WZs8y)

116 "No argument from me. My current geopolitical stance is pretty much, "FVCK ALL OF YOU!"

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:30 AM (Q9lwr) "


Seconded, with enthusiasm !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez (jDHSU) at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (jDHSU)

117 France....how'd that deal w/the Martians work out?

Posted by: BignJames at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (AwYPR)

118 According to the bylaws at the time, France couldn't unilaterally withdraw from NATO. They did however, kick the US military out of all bases in France. I was in Germany in the late 70's and we used to do a once monthly training mission with the French Air Force. They would send a cadre of officers to our site to watch us score their training runs. We had to assign someone to accompany the Frogs wherever they went on site.

Posted by: That Guy What Always Says Yeah Buddy TM at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (R5lpX)

119 The FBI in MAGA drag

Disappointingly, that makes sense.

Posted by: Mean Tweets at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (vGJY7)

120 Cool story about what an Ottowan found buried in his backyard while building a deck.

https://bit.ly/3hN6SQd

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at September 19, 2021 11:41 AM (d9FiS)

121 We might as well get used to this. The junta is out to try and damage every non-islamic and non-communist ally we have around the world. We are seeing the foreign policy of Barky's third term.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 11:41 AM (Fs5vw)

122 Australia itself, not a chance. We're in the middle of a trade war with China, and we're winning. They can't feed themselves, and they can't supply their own industries with raw materials.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (MqQvv)

I think China is why our food prices here are climbing, a manufacturing army runs on its tum tum

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:41 AM (ONvIw)

123
Diesel subs are amazingly quiet, but they simply don't have the underwater range that nukes have...
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:07 AM (Q9lwr)


Modern diesel subs are extremely dangerous to an enemy navy in a shorter range role. The fact that the Aussies are going nuke for their subs is an indication that they are worried and want to have the ability to engage an unspecified asian adversary as far away from their own shores as possible, WITHOUT having to depend on the US Navy.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 19, 2021 11:41 AM (gbfHZ)

124 I don't blame France for invoking the Cursed Name of the Devil Trump. Biden and his handlers have paper thin skin and calling them Trumpists might actually work. France is just playing a diplomatic card.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 19, 2021 11:39 AM (FvCkv)

And if you don't go away, they will taunt you one more time.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (/ikTA)

125 "Australia is a puppet state of China. "

Unlike the USA?
I don't think so.
We are way beyond puppet state.
May as well call us a province of the CCP.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (aAP3z)

126 I have been to Australia before and did not get the feeling that they were China's puppet. Remember Australia also contributed troops to Vietnam.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:23 AM (mpXpK)


In 1969-73 China barely had control over China. Things change. Most of the elites in Australia (and in the US) today were trained that marxism and maoism are the next economic and societal evolution, as long as that nasty capitalism can be destroyed.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (ssx3L)

127 France is an inconsistent ally at best. France had it coming.
Posted by: occam's brassiere at September 19, 2021 11:36 AM (V8JPv)


They are not the global power they think they are. And they hate being reminded of it. But they are an impressive regional power. They have to be given the range of Iranian missiles.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:43 AM (axyOa)

128 Have the Australians changed their mind about nuclear power?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 19, 2021 11:43 AM (63Dwl)

129 Lot can change in a half-century.
*Looks at the woman laying in bed next to me*
You ain't kidding.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:38 AM (/ikTA)


You're going straight to hell. Probably by her hand.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 19, 2021 11:44 AM (4thlk)

130 May as well call us a province of the CCP.
Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (aAP3z)

Thanks Richie Rich the outsourcers!

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:44 AM (ONvIw)

131 That said, their intelligence collection against foreign business is extremely aggressive. Not uncommon for US contractors to be in France and if staying at the same hotel to be assigned the same room. And you can bet your room is searched every day. The French aren't even subtle about it.
Posted by: Diogenes at September 19, 2021 11:11 AM (axyOa)

It's not just France. A few years ago I attended a half day presentation by an FBI cyber security agent (I know, I know). He said that if you go to any country everything on your phone and laptop, etc will be compromised. He recommended taking a burner phone and laptop then wipe it when back home. This talked happened before Orange Man Bad.

Posted by: Beartooth at September 19, 2021 11:44 AM (UAr4S)

132 WITHOUT having to depend on the US Navy

I wonder if their navy is as woke as ours? I'm guessing it is. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:45 AM (Xrfse)

133 Cool story about what an Ottowan found buried in his backyard while building a deck.

https://bit.ly/3hN6SQd
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

There's quite a few YouTubers more than capable who would *love* to fully restore that sword.

Posted by: Taqiyyologist, Rickrolled by Jesus at September 19, 2021 11:45 AM (OssQ4)

134 have been to Australia before and did not get the feeling that they were China's puppet. Remember Australia also contributed troops to Vietnam.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:23 AM (mpXpK)

In 1969-73 China barely had control over China. Things change. Most of the elites in Australia (and in the US) today were trained that marxism and maoism are the next economic and societal evolution, as long as that nasty capitalism can be destroyed.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (ssx3L)

I think we can call agree historically Australia was a a beloved country and ally to most Americans. The issue at this moment is this moment. I am not saying they are gone, but nor are they like the Vietnam era. Hell, let's be honest, neither are we.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (Ks/+3)

135 128 Have the Australians changed their mind about nuclear power?

No sign of sense on that front from our government.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (MqQvv)

136 They could opt to march in and take it, of course. Hence the nuclear sub fleet.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 19, 2021 11:40 AM (MqQvv)

Australia is selling itself out from under Australians. Check how much China already owns. It's a process that is happening all over the world, China buys up industries and land. When they become the landlords, they don't have to invade.

Good luck with that trade war. We tried that too, but since they own all our medicine and toilet paper, we're not really in a position to put up much of a fight.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (/ikTA)

137 they are worried and want to have the ability to engage an unspecified asian adversary as far away from their own shores as possible, WITHOUT having to depend on the US Navy.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 19, 2021 11:41 AM (gbfHZ)

Good point. And a sad one.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (Q9lwr)

138 28 Have the Australians changed their mind about nuclear power?

No sign of sense on that front from our government.

Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (MqQvv)

New Zealand never has changed their mind about it. They have always been lefty nutters as far as I recall. Sure I haven't looked into it since the 80s, but still.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:47 AM (Ks/+3)

139 128 Have the Australians changed their mind about nuclear power?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 19, 2021 11:43 AM (63Dwl)


They would not allow us to pull into the harbor when we went there in 75 so they were anti-nuke then and I don't think things have changed.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:47 AM (mpXpK)

140 In 1969-73 China barely had control over China. Things change. Most of the elites in Australia (and in the US) today were trained that marxism and maoism are the next economic and societal evolution, as long as that nasty capitalism can be destroyed.
Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (ssx3L)

Yes. The boomer profs got swamped by the Marxist message in the 70s and never grew out of it. My husband, a prof, always says that academics are frustrated that the PhD does not equal riches and are angry. When you throw MArxism at jealous, frustrated, "genius" types, you can expect them to preach it.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:47 AM (ONvIw)

141 Those subs aren't to protect Australia from China. Those subs are to protect China from its neighbors.

Posted by: Drerbrerard at September 19, 2021 11:47 AM (U76Nz)

142 I wonder if their navy is as woke as ours? I'm guessing it is. Good luck with that.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:45 AM (Xrfse)

I kinda doubt it. I mean, I'm sure it's pretty woke. But the US saw all the fag shit going on in other countries, and immediately turned it up to 11. We have closed the Stupidity Gap, and are now on the bleeding edge of dumbness.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 19, 2021 11:48 AM (FvCkv)

143
well since the US Navy has a habit now of running ships into things


also making gay sailors stay on ship, so the burn down a billion dollar vessal

sure the USN has got this

Posted by: will choose a nic later at September 19, 2021 11:48 AM (bTQ72)

144 I wonder if their navy is as woke as ours?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:45 AM (Xrfse)

I'm sort of afraid that the next time I meet Nevergiveup (Captain, USN) for a beer he will be wearing red pumps and matching lipstick!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:48 AM (Q9lwr)

145 Trump is the enemy that all true villains need. The keep their infamy in the shadows.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:48 AM (u82oZ)

146 yeah. Is that the Trump who went to Paris for a Bastille Day parade in 2017? That Trump?

Posted by: The Charlie Daniels of the Torque Wrench at September 19, 2021 11:48 AM (TJtcP)

147 The Centurions is a great read on French soldiers, they can be badasses at times.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at September 19, 2021 11:49 AM (oWBc3)

148 the french (framatome/cogema) supplied the fledgeling iranian nuclear program and the iraqi one tammuz 16, that the israelis' took out in 1981, was dubbed o'chiraq,

the trade in nuclear material, from the former was so slipshod it wouldn't surprise me if a decent quantity of uranium did slip through, no one was going to investigate the radiation saturated oil and water in niger, not if they didn't mind being sterile,

Posted by: alien covenant was much worse at September 19, 2021 11:49 AM (hMlTh)

149 #120 Thanks for the Ottawa sword story, AW.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 11:49 AM (UHVv4)

150 "Australia is a puppet state of China. "
----------
Unlike the USA?
I don't think so.
We are way beyond puppet state.
May as well call us a province of the CCP.
Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:42 AM (aAP3z)

The main difference is we're bigger (economically and pop), so China is much further along in owning Australia than it is here.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:49 AM (/ikTA)

151 To me looks like Australia is forgoing China and heading straight for Nork Land

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 11:49 AM (2JoB8)

152 Good point. And a sad one.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 11:46 AM (Q9lwr)

Sad that we are not trusted, but good that a few countries are pulling the thumbs out of their mouths when it comes to defense, and taking action.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:50 AM (ONvIw)

153 past 100 so here's my good news of the day: found reasonably priced baby back ribs for doggeh at Aldi!

divvying it up now

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion (oEn12) at September 19, 2021 11:50 AM (oEn12)

154 CharlieBrown'sDildo

Never Nevergiveup. But his boss sure would.

Nevergiveup is a manly man.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:50 AM (u82oZ)

155 An interesting take on the French Revolution, during our own revolution vs. the Brits, the French loaned the US a pile of money, in addition to military support.
Money the US never paid back, harming the French.
Hence the French Revolution.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (aAP3z)

156 Doesn't matter, by 2040 Australia will be mostly under water anyway die to global warming.

Posted by: My Word as A at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (oWBc3)

157 divvying it up now
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion (oEn12) at September 19, 2021 11:50 AM (oEn12)

Lucky Doggeh! My good boy had to make do with scrambled eggs parmesan.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (ONvIw)

158 I'm sort of afraid that the next time I meet Nevergiveup (Captain, USN) for a beer he will be wearing red pumps and matching lipstick!

Heh. NGU seems to me to be more of the sensible shoes type.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (Xrfse)

159 This whole Aussie submarine thing has been a clusterfark from the beginning.

The original Australian goal - in theory - was to replace their ancient Collins (Oberon) diesel boats quickly with off-the-shelf technology and ideally an off-the-shelf design.

The Japanese thought they had a deal to sell them Soryu-class AIP subs. That one got tangled up in Aussie state politics - WA (Western Australia) had a need to keep a bunch of soon-to-be-unemployed GM Holden workers employed (Aussie unions are about as bloody-minded as US teachers) and the Japanese didn't seem to get that.

Enter the French, who hired themselves a bunch of Aussie political and military names, came up with an 'off-the-shelf' design that wasn't (it was a French nuke sub with the glowing bits replaced by underpants-gnome engineering), promised the world in re-industrializing the WA naval facilities (who can barely keep even two of their old Collinses running)...and the schedule kept slipping, and in the end the Aussies were going to get supposed-AIP boats at the price of nukes, a shrinking proportion of which was to be built in Australia.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (8erNz)

160 Ownership can turn on a dime.

And I will be looking for grasping official Criminality to cut the criminal Chinese out of the take.

What will China do when they are stiffed by the criminals they bought in our Government?

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (u82oZ)

161 Nevergiveup is a manly man.
Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:50 AM (u82oZ)



LOL, not sure where that is coming from.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (Irn0L)

162 Australia also has alot of coastline to patrol so the nukes make sense for that reason too besides wanting to fight the Chinks closer to Asian than to Oz.

We should have gotten nukes to patrol our coasts and under the Arctic ice [proposed in 1987 IIRC] especially re. Arctic sovereignty but it was shot down because it involved the evil word "nuclear" and we can't have that.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (UHVv4)

163 "separated by oceans and a common language"

I know Shaw said it first, but nice joke all the same.

Posted by: Pete in Texas at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (2RBkF)

164
What will China do when they are stiffed by the criminals they bought in our Government?
Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (u82oZ)

Not while Biden is in office. They'd release whatever they have on the election.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (ONvIw)

165 separated by oceans and a common language"


Can they please take harry and that bitch back

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (Irn0L)

166 I feel kinda bad for Pixy, we're shitting all over his country.
Oh well.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (4thlk)

167 My Word as A

Remember Acid rain? No trees left in New England? They lied.

Same as Global Warming / Climate Change.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (u82oZ)

168
I have read that the French were unable to provide submarines to Australia under the terms originally agreed. The price kept rising, delivery dates kept getting delayed, vessels did not perform. The deal was a cash cow for the French defense industry and the Australians were essentially being cheated.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (2iDSr)

169 The US did pay France back:


In 1795, the United States was finally able to settle its debts with the French Government with the help of James Swan, an American banker who privately assumed French debts at a slightly higher interest rate.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (mpXpK)

170 We are not bigger in population than China.
We are less than a third of population.
There is virtually no intellectual property of the US that has not been turned over to China.
There is a rumor that a 4 star US general has more allegiance to China than he does to the US.
I could go on, but we all know this. Look in your medicine cabinet, your hardware store.
10% for the Big guy...

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (aAP3z)

171 An interesting take on the French Revolution, during our own revolution vs. the Brits, the French loaned the US a pile of money, in addition to military support.
Money the US never paid back, harming the French.
Hence the French Revolution.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (aAP3z)

we also turned on them immediately after the war. Washington himself was pro Britain and not much on France. But they dug their own grave by being so shitty to each other.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (Ks/+3)

172
LOL, not sure where that is coming from.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (Irn0L)

Someone up thread envisioned you in red lipstick and pumps due to the wokiness of the military

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (ONvIw)

173 So I am guessing we should start seeing some Aussies showing up at our nuke and sub schools soon

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (Irn0L)

174
I've been to NZ and the people I met were pretty left wing. You know who weren't leftists? the Maori guys. They talked guns, hunting and fast cars.

Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (WZs8y)

175 I understand saying we should sell weapons to Country X to enrich our businesses. But don't try to ever pretend it's a security or policy thing. That's bullshit. Almost every country hates us. No country trusts us, and they shouldn't. They'll turn on us in an instant, as they should. Advanced weapons are a business, and no more than that.

And frankly, I'm no longer convinced by the trade argument, either. Our defense contractors hate us too, and would happily turn on us in an instant, too. Fuck them, too. I'm fine with it if they never turn another wrench. It's not as if we can win a war, in any event.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (FvCkv)

176 Someone up thread envisioned you in red lipstick and pumps due to the wokiness of the military
Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (ONvIw)

Oh I got the legs for it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (Irn0L)

177 The longer The Biden...the more foreign governments will hate us no matter. Hate loosing security and or hate us for winning and displaying the deadly shortcomings of their own governments.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (T1fV4)

178 What will China do when they are stiffed by the criminals they bought in our Government?
Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:52 AM (u82oZ)

When hyper-inflation kicks in, all that China debt will become damn close to worthless.

So there's that.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (/ikTA)

179 OK, thanks Vic, I will look that up.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (aAP3z)

180 CN

The Biddens and inner junta are stupid enough and venal enough to try. And Deep State will still be in control, as we slide down the toboggan.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (u82oZ)

181 Did the foreign minister offer a single example of the brutal unilateral things Trump did while president?

This delusional hallucinogenic alternate reality in which Trump was "authoritarian" and "erratic" and now "brutally unilateral"* is like nothing I can recall seeing.

* "unilateral" is a pejorative term for idiots, who don't understand an alliance is a means, not an end, and who pretend to or actually believe that sound decisions/actions by a superpower somehow benefit from or need the support or participation of minor countries from a legacy alliance

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (OTzUX)

182 I feel kinda bad for Pixy, we're shitting all over his country.

Nah, I think we're just lamenting the abysmal state of the entire free world.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (Xrfse)

183 Lucky Doggeh! My good boy had to make do with scrambled eggs parmesan.
Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:51 AM (ONvIw)

he's so spoiled
right now he's excotedly watching sumo wrestling on tv

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion (oEn12) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (oEn12)

184 Can they please take harry and that bitch back
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (Irn0L)


Hold on, he has three shows for L'oreal coming up, he just can't leave

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (ssx3L)

185 Nevergiveup

LOL. Shaved? Nooooo!

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (u82oZ)

186 We are not bigger in population than China.
We are less than a third of population.
There is virtually no intellectual property of the US that has not been turned over to China.
There is a rumor that a 4 star US general has more allegiance to China than he does to the US.
I could go on, but we all know this. Look in your medicine cabinet, your hardware store.
10% for the Big guy...

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (aAP3z)

If I see made in CHina i never buy it. THat is probably why most of the stuff doesn't mention where it is made. It is always crap unless it is a Peking Duck made in a few places in China.

btw, population doesn't really mean that much. There are a lot of large populations that never amounted to a hill of beans unfortunately.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:57 AM (Ks/+3)

187 Lot can change in a half-century.
*Looks at the woman laying in bed next to me*
You ain't kidding.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:38 AM (/ikTA)

You're going straight to hell. Probably by her hand.
Posted by: lowandslow

And sleeping on the couch until then...

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 11:57 AM (OChGz)

188 Remember Acid rain? No trees left in New England? They lied.

Same as Global Warming / Climate Change.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:54 AM (u82oZ)

I haven't thought of acid rain in years, but it was all the rage in the 70s. I worked part time in the University Library and was tasked with finding the proceedings of some obscure conference. It was all the University President could think of.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (ONvIw)

189 (cont'd)

The schedule dragged out and the first Frogboat was due for delivery in...2032? and French commitment on Australian participation kept getting pared back.

We don't know a lot of the details yet, who decided that maybe that blood on the sheets was the barbed cock of Gaul. What we can presume is that it's too much the right thing to do, and probably too long in the negotiation, for it ever to have originated under Biden's idiots.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (8erNz)

190 I've been to NZ and the people I met were pretty left wing. You know who weren't leftists? the Maori guys. They talked guns, hunting and fast cars.
Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 11:55 AM (WZs8y)

For what it's worth, a recent weekend excursion to Aspen was eye opening. Lots of expensive vehicles, everyone masked up. Lefties everywhere. It was literally like being in a foreign country.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (/ikTA)

191 This all boils down to France's grifters being mad that Biden's grifters are getting the business

Posted by: Methos at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (kOpft)

192 LOL. Shaved? Nooooo!
Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (u82oZ)

Shaved? No shave LOL. But I did just try on my Collar Whites for a Funeral at Arlington I was roped into participating in and I look marvelous!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 11:59 AM (Irn0L)

193 he's so spoiled
right now he's excotedly watching sumo wrestling on tv
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion (oEn12) at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (oEn12)

I'm sure he deserved every last snootful

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 11:59 AM (ONvIw)

194 The French Revolution began in 1789, so repayment of debts in 1795, better late than never, I guess.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:59 AM (aAP3z)

195 Nah, I think we're just lamenting the abysmal state of the entire free world.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (Xrfse)

The entire what??

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (/ikTA)

196 I feel kinda bad for Pixy, we're shitting all over his country.

Nah, I think we're just lamenting the abysmal state of the entire free world.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 11:56 AM (Xrfse)

what is Pixy's country? I once thought Pixy was a euphemism for when the site went haywire. But don't trust me, I am still getting the first generation of net slang terms. Is Pixy from France? I have often wondered if people think am a down low pro France guy. But that might be all in my mind lol.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (Ks/+3)

197 Japan has blacku rain.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (T1fV4)

198 This all boils down to France's grifters being mad that Biden's grifters are getting the business
Posted by: Methos at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (kOpft)

Concur. Criminals all of them. Money will change hands, phony baloney jobs will be protected/created and not one Aussie sub will do a damn thing.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (R/m4+)

199 #159 Thanks, JEM, for more background information.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (UHVv4)

200 The entire what??

Good point. I guess I'm reminiscing on what once was.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (Xrfse)

201 @155...True. And the French signed a disastrous trade agreement with Britain in the mid 1780s. Laughably lopsided...silk from English mills protected, wine from French vineyards not, that sort of thing. Terms were so bad rumor was French negotiators were bribed. Similar with US lians. Ben Franklin and company greased a few influential French palms to polite!y ignore the greater US debt. This all started dawning on the French people when inflation hit, they couldn't buy bread, but thearistos were wearing dresses with "Tax The Rich" sitched on to opulent galas.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (V8JPv)

202 196 Is Pixy from France? I have often wondered if people think am a down low pro France guy. But that might be all in my mind lol.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (Ks/+3)

He lives in New Zealand I believe.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (mpXpK)

203 Almost 60 percent of AZ voter registration last 24 month about 700k have no SSA recirds match

Posted by: Rhennigantx at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (LYheq)

204 or what it's worth, a recent weekend excursion to Aspen was eye opening. Lots of expensive vehicles, everyone masked up. Lefties everywhere. It was literally like being in a foreign country.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (/ikTA)

yeah, don't do that. plenty of ski joints in red areas.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (Ks/+3)

205 A Ph.D was never supposed to be a golden ticket. It was supposed to open the possibility for tenure, which was to provide a stable, high status low pay position to allow research free of political jockeying.

And they couldn't resist screwing that up either

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:02 PM (ssx3L)

206 These Aussie nukes will be needing vertical launch tubes.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 12:02 PM (+MWCq)

207 (cont'd)

What we can presume is that (a) having the Brits involved means our veto authority on how the boats are used will be limited, which was probably a political necessity in Oz, and (b) the deal would certainly have happened under a Trump administration, probably originated during his term and that may well account for French remarks, but the Frogs wouldn't be wiping so much bluntly-administered spittle off their faces in the way a Trump had rolled it out.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 12:02 PM (8erNz)

208 The entire what??
--------------------
Good point. I guess I'm reminiscing on what once was.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (Xrfse)

Yeah. While I hate to give the Wachowski sisters any credit, their Matrix analogy was spot on. I sure am glad I'm no longer hooked up to the machine, but it does suck sometimes knowing how dirty and painful this real world is.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:03 PM (/ikTA)

209 And if you doubt me, wait and see what happens if there's an open conflict in the USA. Every one of these defense firms will be in a race to rename their systems to things like the SJW-3000 MAGA Smasher.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 19, 2021 12:03 PM (FvCkv)

210 *points and laughs at Fwance*

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 19, 2021 12:03 PM (EZebt)

211 "For instance, during the American War of Northern Aggression . . ."


And that's when the fight started, yer 'onor!

Posted by: Sharkman at September 19, 2021 12:04 PM (axcmk)

212 Nevergiveup

Good morning, Sir.

Choker Whites? With white gloves, sword, and full medals?

Give we wash khaki any day. Just put railroad tracks on the collars and my SWO pin, and I'm good to go. Oh wait. Straightens up gig line.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:04 PM (u82oZ)

213 196 Is Pixy from France? I have often wondered if people think am a down low pro France guy. But that might be all in my mind lol.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:00 PM (Ks/+3)

He lives in New Zealand I believe.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (mpXpK)

ahh. thanks for the info. I have always heard it is an amazing country. One line I heard was NZ is what people want to find when they go to OZ.

But yeah, they are pretty left, at least on the Cold War and nuclear power. At least that is what I recall. But crap, we are so far left from what I recall these things are hard to measure.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:04 PM (Ks/+3)

214 Let's bring back Freedom Fries, and f the French.

Posted by: West at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (QY+6a)

215 so when Pixy posts in the middle of the night, he has a good reason. That is what I take from this.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (Ks/+3)

216 Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:04 PM (Ks/+3)

He's an Aussie.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (Q9lwr)

217 or what it's worth, a recent weekend excursion to Aspen was eye opening. Lots of expensive vehicles, everyone masked up. Lefties everywhere. It was literally like being in a foreign country.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (/ikTA)

yeah, don't do that. plenty of ski joints in red areas.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (Ks/+3)

We had folks in from out of state. They wanted to see "the mountains." Which have no snow on them right now anyway.

I'll take the desert over "the mountains" every time.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (/ikTA)

218 At this point I'd just assume the Pentagon is giving all our tech to China already.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (/ikTA)

Slick sold missile guidance tech and sub propeller secrets, I believe those to Hahachi. Nothing new here for Democrats.

Posted by: Clutch at September 19, 2021 12:06 PM (9UmRs)

219 "For instance, during the American War of Northern Aggression . . ."


And that's when the fight started, yer 'onor!

Posted by: Sharkman at September 19, 2021 12:04 PM (axcmk)

The War or Yankee Perfidy

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:06 PM (Ks/+3)

220 Australia itself, not a chance. We're in the middle of a trade war with China, and we're winning. They can't feed themselves, and they can't supply their own industries with raw materials.

Posted by: Pixy Misa

Posted by: SMH - The War has been won, only the battles remain, as usual at September 19, 2021 12:06 PM (bgWIn)

221 #169 Thanks, Vic.

I didn't know about the US-French debt specifically but I know countries are scrupulous about paying back war-treaty debt or they know no country in the world would deal with them ever again if they defaulted on purpose.

I vaguely recall with my failing memory that in the past 20 or so years that some major wartime debts were finally paid off [maybe from WW1??] so I didn't think the newly-founded U.S. would have defaulted even back then.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (UHVv4)

222 so when Pixy posts in the middle of the night, he has a good reason. That is what I take from this.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (Ks/+3)

And I give him a lot of credit for being able to type everything backwards (from his perspective), so us Northern Hemisphere folk can properly read it.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (/ikTA)

223 This deal with the nukes started under PDT and good on him! The Aussies get out of a bad deal and they get nuke boats for the vast Pacific. Biden just took credit. He did squat. As per normal.

Waiting on a waffle and bacon and toast!

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (+MWCq)

224 Choker Whites? With white gloves, sword, and full medals?

Yup, the whole nine yards. Amongst other things I will hand the flag to the widow on behalf of The President unless I change it to "On behalf of the Office of the President" LOL

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (Irn0L)

225 I hadn't followed the sub deal but as JEM noted it's extremely unlikely this all began since January. Seems that way, anyway. Not just the sub-fecklessness (heh) of the idiot children in power here now, but the nature of the business.

And "countering China" makes up no part of the idiot children's actual priorities, AFAIK.

And remember, Trump's radical shift, into a very forward-leaning aggressive confrontation with every aspect of China's global power and influence operations, is not something one can fine-tune. You either confront and push back, or you don't. As with what used to be a southern border, as with Iran's nukes - not taking action will almost certainly lead to adverse results. Any kind of passive or weak posture = doing nothing at all.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (OTzUX)

226 The French Revolution began in 1789, so repayment of debts in 1795, better late than never, I guess.
Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 11:59 AM (aAP3z)


the first major shock to the system was the realization that the French Exchequer had been cooking the books for a generation and the King's government was close to being insolvent. A lot of the policies tried to remedy that caused a lot of financial pain and the moves to ameliorate that made the situation worse. The cost of the 30 years war and the loans to the continental Congress were additional strains.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:07 PM (ssx3L)

227 {{{ SMH - The War has been won, only the battles remain, as usual }}}

* Respectful tip of the hat to Ex-Ex. *

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:08 PM (u82oZ)

228 Hey Salty.

He says hi.

Posted by: SMH - The War has been won, only the battles remain, as usual at September 19, 2021 12:08 PM (bgWIn)

229 We had folks in from out of state. They wanted to see "the mountains." Which have no snow on them right now anyway.

I'll take the desert over "the mountains" every time.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (/ikTA)

I like them both. I have been pretty upfront about loving the mountains and I am not taking that one back. But I have loved the deserts, my fave is the Mojave. What bores me are the suburbs.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:09 PM (Ks/+3)

230 By 1795, Louis XVI's head had been separated from his torso, likewise Marie Antoinette.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 12:09 PM (aAP3z)

231
But yeah, they are pretty left, at least on the Cold War and nuclear power. At least that is what I recall. But crap, we are so far left from what I recall these things are hard to measure.
Posted by: Quint

NZ is way more left than you imply (son lives there).
I have the distinct impression that Pixy is an Ozzy (and an excellent one at that). The people of Oz are fun to work and visit with (well at least they were in 1975 in P.I., Perth, and Freemantle).

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (OChGz)

232 I am confident that he was referring to tariffs or something equally trivial.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo



Or Trump's "unilateral" decision to ask Western Europe to finally pay their long negotiated and drastically in arrears accounts with NATO.

It's like whining because the person you borrowed money from 20 years ago but never paid finally calls your note due.

Posted by: Sharkman at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (axcmk)

233 France has been talking up a "third way" in dealing with Chinese expansionism. That is a signal that they will be a problematic partner in any alliance. Australia wisely declined to hitch itself to such an unreliable partner, and at the same time get kick-ass American sub tech, paid for mostly by the bigger boys! Good move, and it will keep China awake at nights! They were so looking forward to playing the French like a fiddle in order to weaken any Pacific alliance.

Ps. Last I heard, the French have nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed missile subs. Not sure if they work better than their nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (pcClA)

234 We need to plan for the implosion of the Chicom economy. Clean up and gloat. Capitalism always win for it is tied to human freedom.

Fuck Commies and Socialists!

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (+MWCq)

235 At this point I'd just assume the Pentagon is giving all our tech to China already.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:17 AM (/ikTA)

Slick sold missile guidance tech and sub propeller secrets, I believe those to Hahachi. Nothing new here for Democrats.
Posted by: Clutch at September 19, 2021 12:06 PM (9UmRs)

And Gope has been telling us for decades, if we send all our industry over to China, they'll democratize.

Aaaaaaany day now.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (/ikTA)

236
the first major shock to the system was the realization that the French Exchequer had been cooking the books for a generation and the King's government was close to being insolvent

_________

Well, thank goodness we have a Congress and Federal Reserve to help us avoid this scenario!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (/U27+)

237 04 or what it's worth, a recent weekend excursion to Aspen was eye opening. Lots of expensive vehicles, everyone masked up. Lefties everywhere. It was literally like being in a foreign country.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 11:58 AM (/ikTA)

yeah, don't do that. plenty of ski joints in red areas.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:01 PM (Ks/+3)


Aspen has been a leftist/communist hangout since the 50's.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (Fs5vw)

238 Oz has had an openly hostile situation with China for some time. Far more openly contentious and nasty then ours. As with 99% of what's actually going on in the world, it gets zero attention here, and when it does, it's mostly the usual "journalism" (i.e. crude distortion, not information).

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (OTzUX)

239 I hope France, along with the rest of Europe, is a Caliphate by the end of the decade. Fucking garbage. Let the muzzies have it.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (6FeV1)

240 Capitalism always win for it is tied to human freedom.

Fuck Commies and Socialists!
Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (+MWCq)

Another fake trillion dollars printed up in Washington enters the chat.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (/ikTA)

241 #201 wine from French vineyards not
-------------------
But at least it allowed Poldark's Cornish buddies to earn a living smuggling brandy when tin mines were going bust!

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (UHVv4)

242 Had a rugby coach who hailed from NZ. Guy was as far from left as one could imagine. Alas, that was long ago and far away.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (Xrfse)

243 And Gope has been telling us for decades, if we send all our industry over to China, they'll democratize.

Aaaaaaany day now.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:10 PM (/ikTA)

I've been listening to that shit for a long time. Richie Rich never gave a damn about "democracy", just money. See tech giants and the 2020 election.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (ONvIw)

244 The French gotta build more than 1 nuke carrier per class. Down time! The Brits got 2 carriers at least.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (+MWCq)

245 And I fondly recall the days of the US sub force based in Fremantle, when we were battling the Empire of the Sun.

I think the first (unauthorized) tests to confirm the problems with the Mark 14 torpedo were carried out there.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (OTzUX)

246 Yeah. While I hate to give the Wachowski sisters any credit, their Matrix analogy was spot on. I sure am glad I'm no longer hooked up to the machine, but it does suck sometimes knowing how dirty and painful this real world is.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:03 PM (/ikTA)


I dunno man, if given the option to take a blue pill and wind up in 1999 again, I might take it

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (ssx3L)

247 Nevergiveup

May it be moving and as soothing as possible under the circumstances.

In my time, those people delivering the flag were selected for sharp military bearing, A J squared away, and above average in appearance. So you gots that.

I did work the CACO side in the back offices of Naval Base Norfolk, back in my duty days. Some sad stories there.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:13 PM (u82oZ)

248 US sub force based in Fremantle
Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX)

My spelling error noted.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 12:14 PM (OChGz)

249 No F-111's allowed to fly over France to strike Libya.
Also the Frogs were already jerking the Diggers around with cost overruns, delays and time extensions.
Perfidiousness baguettes* gettin' perfidy'd.




*expost sorry, maybe, but probably not.

Posted by: walksfarwolf at September 19, 2021 12:14 PM (86WFG)

250 Kindltot

My stock purchases from rerunning 1999 would be lit.

I would have different life circumstances without selling all my Apple stock, and going long in Google and Amazon.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:15 PM (u82oZ)

251 We had folks in from out of state. They wanted to see "the mountains." Which have no snow on them right now anyway.

I'll take the desert over "the mountains" every time.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:05 PM (/ikTA)

I like them both. I have been pretty upfront about loving the mountains and I am not taking that one back. But I have loved the deserts, my fave is the Mojave. What bores me are the suburbs.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:09 PM (Ks/+3)

I don't mind visiting the mountains, but much of Colorado is high desert. As is all of Utah. When I moved out this way, I had absolutely no interest in living anywhere near the "front range," which politically is basically California without the beaches.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:15 PM (/ikTA)

252 Charleville muskets ain't free, guys!

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:16 PM (UHVv4)

253
Well, thank goodness we have a Congress and Federal Reserve to help us avoid this scenario!
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (/U27+)


France had already tried fiat money under John Law's Mississippi scheme, and that was another huge stress on the economic system.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:16 PM (ssx3L)

254 rhomboid

Most bureaucracy miss innovation. In the Civil War the Army Ordnance Branch passed on Sharps Repeating Rifles and the Gatling gun.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:17 PM (u82oZ)

255 251 When I moved out this way, I had absolutely no interest in living anywhere near the "front range," which politically is basically California without the beaches.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:15 PM (/ikTA

The beaches in Northern CA are worthless. The water is too cold.

Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

256 Yeah. While I hate to give the Wachowski sisters any credit, their Matrix analogy was spot on. I sure am glad I'm no longer hooked up to the machine, but it does suck sometimes knowing how dirty and painful this real world is.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:03 PM (/ikTA)

I dunno man, if given the option to take a blue pill and wind up in 1999 again, I might take it
Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (ssx3L)

It's not an easy choice. And once you make it you can never go back. Jeez, I'm practically quoting the damn movie. Stupid trannie Wachowskis. And I have no doubt they're going to fark up with new film.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:18 PM (/ikTA)

257 I've been listening to that shit for a long time. Richie Rich never gave a damn about "democracy", just money. See tech giants and the 2020 election.
Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:12 PM (ONvIw)

They wanted China to be democratic and Capitalist enough to let THEM into their markets, that's it. Which is what the money men SHOULD be concerned about.

But we fucked up. We trusted them.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:18 PM (mR6Gs)

258 Oz has had an openly hostile situation with China for some time. Far more openly contentious and nasty then ours....

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (OTzUX)
===

They Chinese factor in geographic proximity and number of aircraft carriers.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (EZebt)

259 Also, go look up Operation Torch and see who it was that was killing American soldiers.

Posted by: Wikitorix



The Vichy French troops defended the invasion beaches for about 10 minutes and then surrendered when their officers realized how stupid they were being.

Posted by: Sharkman at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (axcmk)

260 Perfidiousness baguettes* gettin' perfidy'd.
--------------------------
It's not advisable to get involved in the far yeast.

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (UHVv4)

261 whenever you here about the "third way" that translates to France being in charge. I read a really good book when I cared about this stuff that the USA and France are the only countries in the modern world (circa the '90s) that not only think they are the best, but they are the model for all other countries.

France has done a shitload considering its size. It has to be third after the USA and the UK. But they want to be the top dog and much of their policy is explained by that. They know they are weak, and they will find any way to use their advantage. They only care about the UN because it counters the US. When the UN criticizes France, they laugh like Hell and bomb away.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (Ks/+3)

262 Among the most interesting places to visit is places that aren't places. I'm talking about the transition area between mountains and high plains desert. That transition zone on the Calif. Sierra Crest is hundreds of miles long and fosters lots of animal life.

Eagle Lake in California is on that zone line .. and not infested by Woke-Yuppies.

Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (WZs8y)

263 When I moved out this way, I had absolutely no interest in living anywhere near the "front range," which politically is basically California without the beaches.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:15 PM (/ikTA

The beaches in Northern CA are worthless. The water is too cold.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

They're pretty. I don't swim, fish, or boat, so all I do is stand on the shore looking out at the water anyway.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (/ikTA)

264 Warai-otoko

Negative. We need the French on our side. ISTR the current French Military is planning how to take the country back. They are being thwarted by the politicos in power.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:20 PM (u82oZ)

265 France: Our Oldest Enemy

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at September 19, 2021 12:20 PM (yQpMk)

266 260 Perfidiousness baguettes* gettin' perfidy'd.
--------------------------
It's not advisable to get involved in the far yeast.
Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (UHVv4)

We're having enough trouble in the Levaint.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at September 19, 2021 12:20 PM (6FeV1)

267 They wanted China to be democratic and Capitalist enough to let THEM into their markets, that's it. Which is what the money men SHOULD be concerned about.

But we fucked up. We trusted them.
Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:18 PM (mR6Gs)

No. Money men should not be given a pass to screw their nation. The money men fucked the nation and got richer. I'd like to see them suffer.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:21 PM (ONvIw)

268 Well, thank goodness we have a Cong

No ! Thank Heaven for leetle girls....

Posted by: Zombie Maurice Chevalier at September 19, 2021 12:22 PM (jvt6t)

269
Think Ike had problems with Monty? I give you Devers and LeClerc.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:22 PM (/U27+)

270 Among the most interesting places to visit is places that aren't places. I'm talking about the transition area between mountains and high plains desert. That transition zone on the Calif. Sierra Crest is hundreds of miles long and fosters lots of animal life.

Eagle Lake in California is on that zone line .. and not infested by Woke-Yuppies.
Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (WZs8y)

Glenwood canyon fairly well separates alpine Colorado from high desert. As one travels along I-70, the transition is stark, in that the view to the south is still quite alpine, while the view to the north is all brown and craggy, uninviting landscrape. Which is the stuff I love the most.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:22 PM (/ikTA)

271 UN criticizes France, they laugh like Hell and bomb away.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (Ks/+3)

We should be equally cavalier about the UN and boot them out.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:23 PM (ONvIw)

272 With goings on in Australia every day wonder if Tech thread will show up.

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 12:23 PM (2JoB8)

273 In the Civil War the Army Ordnance Branch passed on Sharps Repeating Rifles and the Gatling gun.
------------------------------
Do you know how much expensive ammo those things use!!
-- bureaucrats and the general staff

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:23 PM (UHVv4)

274 Negative. We need the French on our side. ISTR the current French Military is planning how to take the country back. They are being thwarted by the politicos in power.
Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:20 PM (u82oZ)


I have heard this and I was impressed by the move at Calais, but I still don't see much happening.
The paratroopers had a plan for Algeria for 1969, after all.

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:24 PM (ssx3L)

275 They wanted China to be democratic and Capitalist enough to let THEM into their markets, that's it. Which is what the money men SHOULD be concerned about.

But we fucked up. We trusted them.
Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:18 PM (mR6Gs)

No. Money men should not be given a pass to screw their nation. The money men fucked the nation and got richer. I'd like to see them suffer.
Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:21 PM (ONvIw)

Yeah, sorry Joe, the money men didn't fark up. They ARE the people in charge, and all of this unfolded exactly as they wanted. The democracy business was the lie they told us to keep voting for their puppet politicians.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:24 PM (/ikTA)

276 >>> Aspen has been a leftist/communist hangout since the 50's.
Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:11 PM (Fs5vw)


True, but there's plenty better for skiing. Crustybutt, Copper Mountain, Monarch ...

Posted by: banana Dream at September 19, 2021 12:24 PM (4D/dn)

277 People ought to know we're just greedy bastards who payoff politicians so we can screw the nation to China's benefit (and more billions), so it's ok!

Posted by: Amoral moneymen who bribe pols at September 19, 2021 12:25 PM (ONvIw)

278 The beaches in Northern CA are worthless. The water is too cold.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

They're pretty. I don't swim, fish, or boat, so all I do is stand on the shore looking out at the water anyway.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (/ikTA)

While your there you can paint bad landscapes or write stories about lost loves and melancholy.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:25 PM (Fs5vw)

279
No. Money men should not be given a pass to screw their nation. The money men fucked the nation and got richer. I'd like to see them suffer.
Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:21 PM (ONvIw)

You're right. Fuck them

But I was talking about the political types. It was their job to look out for the nation's interests.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:26 PM (mR6Gs)

280 True, but there's plenty better for skiing. Crustybutt, Copper Mountain, Monarch ...
Posted by: banana Dream at September 19, 2021 12:24 PM (4D/dn)

Wolf Creek gets the most snow and has wonderful hot springs at the bottom.

Posted by: Drerbrerard at September 19, 2021 12:26 PM (U76Nz)

281 Have a great afternoon, everyone.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at September 19, 2021 12:27 PM (u82oZ)

282
Went to Vail once. A wretched hive of douchebags and slags.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:27 PM (/U27+)

283 While your there you can paint bad landscapes or write stories about lost loves and melancholy.
Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:25 PM (Fs5vw)

Where do you think Message In A Bottle was born?

Posted by: Sting at September 19, 2021 12:28 PM (jvt6t)

284 I wonder, did Nixon go to China to get the political heat off of him?
I visited China in 1984.
It was a different China at that time.
They revered Nixon.

Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 12:28 PM (aAP3z)

285 But I was talking about the political types. It was their job to look out for the nation's interests.
Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:26 PM (mR6Gs)

They want money, too. Follow the money, always. Pols were never going to protect the national interests when there's bribes to be taken.

Posted by: Amoral moneymen who bribe pols at September 19, 2021 12:28 PM (ONvIw)

286 They're pretty. I don't swim, fish, or boat, so all I do is stand on the shore looking out at the water anyway.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (/ikTA)

While your there you can paint bad landscapes or write stories about lost loves and melancholy.
Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:25 PM (Fs5vw)

If I had any talent, which I don't, I'd write sad songs. The world just doesn't have enough sad songs.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:29 PM (/ikTA)

287
I wonder, did Nixon go to China to get the political heat off of him?

_________

To piss off the Rooskies.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:30 PM (/U27+)

288 I wonder, did Nixon go to China to get the political heat off of him?
I visited China in 1984.
It was a different China at that time.
They revered Nixon.
Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 12:28 PM (aAP3z)

Nixon was an anti-Commie looking to play China and The Soviet Union off each other. He was very much interested in world affairs and I doubt he went through all that just to take the domestic political heat off himself.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 19, 2021 12:30 PM (mR6Gs)

289 I saw Acid Rain open for Oceans Rising at the Michael Mann Emporium in '08.

Posted by: That Guy What Always Says Yeah Buddy TM at September 19, 2021 12:31 PM (R5lpX)

290 I wonder, did Nixon go to China to get the political heat off of him?
I visited China in 1984.
It was a different China at that time.
They revered Nixon.
Posted by: casual observer 1019 at September 19, 2021 12:28 PM (aAP3z)

Start by asking a different question: Why did Kissinger go to China?

Then the answers change.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (/ikTA)

291 >>> Wolf Creek gets the most snow and has wonderful hot springs at the bottom.
Posted by: Drerbrerard at September 19, 2021 12:26 PM (U76Nz)

I agree. When I stayed there people were jumping out of the springs, running over and hopping into a hole in the ice of the river then dashing back to the springs. I never did that.

Posted by: banana Dream at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (4D/dn)

292 Those ADV China YouTubers (2 guys living in China for a long time, toured on bikes) are now in the US, but seem to think China is mostly paper tiger, on verge of collapse in many ways. ... idk, China seems overextended, into countries around the world that are now starting to reject their ham handed intrusion.

Our greatest threat seems to be the globalists, who want the IMF/BIS to manage our currency. Perhaps BigCorp is a part of that globalist venture, with the BigTech arm leading the charge against Liberty. But there are many covert moving parts.

I's like US to remain the superpower, but the infiltration of our military now seems largely complete ... still waiting on those Qanon White Hats to storm the capitol for real, and send half of DC to Gitmo ... #2weeks.

Posted by: illiniwek at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (Cus5s)

293
Nixon was an anti-Commie looking to play China and The Soviet Union off each other. He was very much interested in world affairs and I doubt he went through all that just to take the domestic political heat off himself.
Posted by: JoeF.

___________

Kissinger was dicking around with Chou well before Watergate.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (/U27+)

294 A case in point is Thermo Fisher Scientific, blithely assisting the Chinese track their people. They have a big presence in China and get around any block on tech transfer. All about the billions

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (ONvIw)

295 Always miss the book thread, but thought I'd toss in that so far "The Hardest Place" is pretty good. It's about the US involvement and actions in a key and very tough part of A'stan, the Pech Valley in Kunar province. Pretty impressive and thorough for a kid (very young author who interrupted college to go there for his first stint).

But may be upsetting or confusing for many.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 12:33 PM (OTzUX)

296 I's like US to remain the superpower, but the infiltration of our military now seems largely complete ... still waiting on those Qanon White Hats to storm the capitol for real, and send half of DC to Gitmo ... #2weeks.
Posted by: illiniwek at September 19, 2021 12:32 PM (Cus5s)

White hats. I wonder where Brian Cates is spreading this bullshit now that he flounced from QV. How did a paperboy become a "pundit"?

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:34 PM (ONvIw)

297 In the Civil War the Army Ordnance Branch passed on Sharps Repeating Rifles and the Gatling gun.
------------------------------
Do you know how much expensive ammo those things use!!
-- bureaucrats and the general staff

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 12:23 PM (UHVv4)

their guy was pretty good really. I forget his name at this moment but I will look it up and go "ahh!". The CSA guy was Gorgas. I know many think Gatling guns and other weapons would have been a game changer . But they were used in the Civil War and they never made an impact in any major battle.

the reality is a lot of stuff has to come together at a certain time. A fancy gun was never going to change a major Civil War battle, and history shows that is the case.

At Gettysburg the USA had the Whitworth Rifled Cannon. That weapon was as accurate as any technology on the face of the earth at the time. The problem was no matter how accurate a weapon, people back then had to see the target. Implied accuracy meant nothing when you had no one to aim at.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:36 PM (Ks/+3)

298
Glass beach on the north coast calif is pretty cool. The wild coast along the Olympic peninsula is awesome.

Posted by: 13times at September 19, 2021 12:37 PM (WZs8y)

299
They want money, too. Follow the money, always. Pols were never going to protect the national interests when there's bribes to be taken.
Posted by: Amoral moneymen who bribe pols

Or a Met Gala.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 12:37 PM (OChGz)

300 297 In the Civil War the Army Ordnance Branch passed on Sharps Repeating Rifles and the Gatling gun.
------------------------------
Do you know how much expensive ammo those things use!!
-- bureaucrats and the general staff


What I find fascinating is the degree to which machine guns - especially heavy MGs - were used for indirect-fire during WWI.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (8erNz)

301 This was a Trump deal, much to his credit. You don't negotiate a tripartite, $90 billion contract in a few weeks, and especially not with that drooling idiot Biden anywhere near. This was set in motion years ago. The truly remarkable thing is it didn't leak, because it was grown-ups only at the table. If we'd clued the French in on it, they'd have had just the same histrionic bout of pants-shitting and leaked it to the Chinese anyway, because the French government is composed of duplicitous bastards who would sell their allies into slavery for la gloire. France is a third-rate power with a fraction of the global power presence of the UK and that causes them almost intolerable grief every second of every day. Fuck the French. The deal they were offering the Australians was for a set of obsolete toy subs at an eye-watering unit cost. Now the Aussies are going to get Astute-class fleet SSNs, which is the most advanced design in the world today (better than Virginia-class even). The mere fact that the French are acting in such an over-the-top fashion to a strategic defence decision is further evidence, if any were needed, that France is not a serious country and we need pay it no heed.

Posted by: David Gillies at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (tjHrt)

302 At Gettysburg the USA had the Whitworth Rifled Cannon. That weapon was as accurate as any technology on the face of the earth at the time. The problem was no matter how accurate a weapon, people back then had to see the target. Implied accuracy meant nothing when you had no one to aim at.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:36 PM (Ks/+3)

The North won that battle... and the war, by having superior economic power, and more men (and guns).

Period.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (/ikTA)

303
If I had any talent, which I don't, I'd write sad songs. The world just doesn't have enough sad songs.
Posted by: BurtTC

Hey, what am I chopped meat?

Posted by: Country Western at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (OChGz)

304 Ah, I found Cates. He's busy insisting that Durham is perfection and it's over for the conspirators.

In the meantime, some character named TimR is trying to rally support for Mitch, Romney and Cheney on QV saying how much we need them and denying that Mitch has any personal financial goals. The denial never stops.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (ONvIw)

305 Or a Met Gala.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 12:37 PM (OChGz)

Think of all the starving Haitian refugees could have been fed by eating that frumpy dress.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (/ikTA)

306 Or a Met Gala.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at September 19, 2021 12:37 PM (OChGz)

Definitely a bribe for a very vain woman with "star" aspirations.

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:41 PM (ONvIw)

307 If I had any talent, which I don't, I'd write sad songs. The world just doesn't have enough sad songs.
Posted by: BurtTC

Hey, what am I chopped meat?
Posted by: Country Western at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (OChGz)

Kill yourselves.

*Flips hair back*

Posted by: Goth Metal at September 19, 2021 12:43 PM (1Yy3c)

308 278 The beaches in Northern CA are worthless. The water is too cold.
Posted by: Vic at September 19, 2021 12:17 PM (mpXpK)

They're pretty. I don't swim, fish, or boat, so all I do is stand on the shore looking out at the water anyway.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:19 PM (/ikTA)


Daughter has done some surf lessons, when we go somewhere near a decent coast we usually find an excuse to get her out there.

We were out west of Melbourne (VIC AU, not FL US) one year, think she was 13, it was fall and the water was not warm. That's never bothered her too much, but after the lesson she kept the board and we couldn't get her out of the water for another 2.5 hours, even with the suit by the time she came in she was one refrigerated little pickle.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 12:43 PM (8erNz)

309 It's simple, really. Say you're Austrailian and operating your submarine, and you have a problem, like a pump's acting up. You can't just order one from Grainger. You gotta fix it yourself, and the instructions better be English, not Fwench. Hell, that would be like German. Take forever.

Posted by: Eromero at September 19, 2021 12:43 PM (0OP+5)

310 JEM, most rifles of the time were also used as indirect fire as well, they were used against massed cavalry at extreme distance to break up charges before they closed. That was also the reason for the magazine cut-offs that were typical. A commander could call for long range volley fire and then have 10 rounds fire close up when the charge was going through.

Machine guns were used the same way, and did so much better they broke the use of cavalry.

(Q: What do you call cavalry after engaging fixed machine guns?
A: Infantry)

Posted by: Kindltot at September 19, 2021 12:43 PM (ssx3L)

311 If I had any talent, which I don't, I'd write sad songs. The world just doesn't have enough sad songs.
Posted by: BurtTC

Hey, what am I chopped meat?
Posted by: Country Western at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (OChGz)

If you wear pressed denim and have tattoos, you ain't country.

Is all I'm sayin'.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:44 PM (/ikTA)

312 >>We had folks in from out of state. They wanted to see "the mountains."


To Hell with your Mountains...

Show me your Busch!

Posted by: Great T-Shirts of Yesteryear at September 19, 2021 12:45 PM (xTW+j)

313
The North won that battle... and the war, by having superior economic power, and more men (and guns).

Period.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (/ikTA)

Shelby Foote summed it up pretty good at the end of a documentary I watched: The South never had a chance of winning that war.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (Fs5vw)

314 Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (/ikTA)

they won the war with economic power and men, no doubt there. They also finally got a group of Generals that could win battles. No Grant, no Union victory as far as I can see based on counter factuals.

The CSA had their chances. That is what I and a few others mention that so many ignore. Just because something happened, does not mean it was destined to happen.

I never brag here, in fact I never have. But I bet I know more about Gettysburg than most. I know Gettysburg did not win or lose the Civil War for either side no matter what book or teacher says otherwise.

Gettysburg was the greatest Civil War battle and the place the winning side decided to laud themselves.


Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (Ks/+3)

315 If we'd clued the French in on it, they'd have had just the same histrionic bout of pants-shitting and leaked it to the Chinese anyway, because the French government is composed of duplicitous bastards who would sell their allies into slavery for la gloire.

The French, to their credit, are willing to act when they have interests at stake. They pop up in various places around the world with loaded rifles fairly regularly.

On the other hand, they often mistake their interests for everyone else's, your remark brings to mind the Balkans where the UK/US/etc. had to keep the French out of the targeting meetings because the French would call the Serbs and rat it all out within ten minutes.

Posted by: JEM at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (8erNz)

316 I'm suddenly trying to imagine John Denver covered in tatts and doing a thrash album.

I mean, Pat Boone made In A Metal Mood.

Man, I bet Pat Boone got so much pussy.

Posted by: Robert *Be Ungovernable* - Iron Maiden, Senjutsu, OUT NOW!!! at September 19, 2021 12:47 PM (1Yy3c)

317 IIRC, South Carolina still owes the Brits millions from the Civil War.

Posted by: JAS, AoSHQ addict at September 19, 2021 12:48 PM (xopIz)

318 Trump grabbing Macron's wife by the pussy!

You betcha.

Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 12:48 PM (aa+zj)

319 318 Trump grabbing Macron's wife by the pussy!

You betcha.
Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 12:48 PM (aa+zj)

Nah, would be like Trump coming on to Dr Jill, unpossible

Posted by: CN at September 19, 2021 12:49 PM (ONvIw)

320 The Lincoln Gettysburg Address is part of Americana although it had nothing to do with the battle. Americans, mostly Northern Americans chose that specific site for their statues and lamentations. We have gone there at every great anniversary until Obama broke the chain.

It is a place of national hope. That is probably why few young people go there and the people that do are graying and growing white.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:51 PM (Ks/+3)

321 @JEM, there is an old book written post WWI called Infantry in Battle. What I found fascinating about it was the extensive discussion of how to use machine guns in the indirect fire mode, such as to cover targets on the reverse slopes of hills. I understand why machine gun battalions were organized into companies too - you would fire a company at a target like an artillery battery, then as the advance proceeded lift fires with that company and open fire with the next company on the next target. Lots of technical information about the employment.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at September 19, 2021 12:51 PM (N96yY)

322 they won the war with economic power and men, no doubt there. They also finally got a group of Generals that could win battles. No Grant, no Union victory as far as I can see based on counter factuals.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (Ks/+3)

The New York Yankees (yes, I'm going there) were a juggernaut from the early 20s to the mid-60s, and of course had a resurgence in the 90s, early 00s.

People can say "without Babe Ruth, and DiMaggio, and Mantle, and Jeter, they never would have won," but the point is, the money is responsible for them HAVING all those assets in the first place. The stars, and the other players. They weren't geniuses. Stengel and Torre and all the execs in NY used those assets, because they could afford them.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:52 PM (/ikTA)

323 Gettysburg was a "
great Northern Victory" in July of 1863. The war ended two years later and more died after Gettysburg than in the entire war up 'til and including Gettysburg. AND NO one loved G'Burg more than I . I plan to retire there some day, just like Ike.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:53 PM (Ks/+3)

324 If I had any talent, which I don't, I'd write sad songs. The world just doesn't have enough sad songs.
Posted by: BurtTC

Hey, what am I chopped meat?
Posted by: Country Western at September 19, 2021 12:40 PM (OChGz)

Kill yourselves.

*Flips hair back*

Posted by: Goth Metal at September 19, 2021 12:43 PM (1Yy3c)

yeah, not sure metal has any sad songs. Well, not including the poser fag hair metal that sing about their girlfriends.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 19, 2021 12:53 PM (VwHCD)

325 >>yeah, not sure metal has any sad songs. Well, not including the poser fag hair metal that sing about their girlfriends.


Dead Skin Mask is about as close as you get

...also, the Road Behind by GWAR.

But that is mostly a Joke at GnR's expense.

'Sad Whale, Baby'

Posted by: garrett at September 19, 2021 12:55 PM (xTW+j)

326 However, the Biden administration seeking to counter China's growing influence and military prowess in the region, formed a new technology-sharing alliance with Australia and the U.K.

This is a tell of the banks that put Biden in office do not want to kill the golden goose [America].
Maybe they have a bankers plan to bankrupt China.

Posted by: Braenyard at September 19, 2021 12:55 PM (UJBzp)

327 At Gettysburg Lee was living out of wagons and what he could scrounge or steal off the land.

I think he was hoping the inept Union would eff up so he could make his way to Washington and sack the place.

Perhaps. But instead that was his high water mark.

Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 12:55 PM (aa+zj)

328 There is Emo music

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 12:56 PM (2JoB8)

329 eople can say "without Babe Ruth, and DiMaggio, and Mantle, and Jeter, they never would have won," but the point is, the money is responsible for them HAVING all those assets in the first place. The stars, and the other players. They weren't geniuses. Stengel and Torre and all the execs in NY used those assets, because they could afford them.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:52 PM (/ikTA)

you and I can argue this any time you want. We have always got on well. I am not trying to dunk on you I promise. The debate is very complicated. It is true the North/Union/USA always had a marked financial advantage. They also had a major advantage in men when that meant a lot

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:56 PM (Ks/+3)

330 yeah, not sure metal has any sad songs. Well, not including the poser fag hair metal that sing about their girlfriends.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 19, 2021 12:53 PM (VwHCD)

I don't listen to metal, so I don't really know. I just assume the lyrics, when it's possible to call them that, are about murder death kill, and general mayhem.

Meanwhile, the goths are banging their girlfriends and singing about it. I'm not sure how that's a bad thing.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:57 PM (/ikTA)

331 CGP Gray just referred to the ancient insult "a most sordid whore-wretch".

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 19, 2021 12:57 PM (ybIRR)

332 >>Meanwhile, the goths are banging their girlfriends and singing about it.


The Goths sing about wishing they could bang a girl even though they secretly want to bang each other.

Posted by: garrett at September 19, 2021 12:58 PM (xTW+j)

333 Who could have guessed Maj Gen Gordon Meade Miley would have abandoned Cemetery Ridge, leaving every cannon, limber, caissons and rifle and beat it back to DC

Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 12:58 PM (2JoB8)

334
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at September 19, 2021 12:51 PM (N96yY)


Every war starts out with tactics from the last war fought. Spilled blood is the great teacher. Until the next war. Rinse, repeat.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:59 PM (Fs5vw)

335 Gettysburg has fireflys.
Anyplace with fireflys is magical.

Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 12:59 PM (aa+zj)

336 I don't listen to metal, so I don't really know. I just assume the lyrics, when it's possible to call them that, are about murder death kill, and general mayhem.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:57 PM (/ikTA)

Mayhem?

https://youtu.be/qcS0CVJ1KPg

Posted by: Robert *Be Ungovernable* - Iron Maiden, Senjutsu, OUT NOW!!! at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (1Yy3c)

337 Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 12:52 PM (/ikTA)

you and I can argue this any time you want. We have always got on well. I am not trying to dunk on you I promise. The debate is very complicated. It is true the North/Union/USA always had a marked financial advantage. They also had a major advantage in men when that meant a lot
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 12:56 PM (Ks/+3)

It's not really an argument. Just two different ways at looking at the same thing.

To put it more directly, it didn't take genius to replace the douchebag generals with Grant and Sherman and Sheridan. It took common sense. And it sure as hell wasn't genius that those guys employed, when they were put in charge of going at the enemy.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (/ikTA)

338
Who could have guessed Maj Gen Gordon Meade Miley would have abandoned Cemetery Ridge, leaving every cannon, limber, caissons and rifle and beat it back to DC
Posted by: Skip at September 19, 2021 12:58 PM (2JoB

_______

Ol' Abe wanted to declare the war over on July 4th.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (/U27+)

339 but that doesn't equal victory, it doesn't make it fore ordained. I grew up in the South so I know how huge this at least used to be, it used to be almost Biblical.There was a time when if Southerner strayed from the script,they were really in trouble. Like net jail to be honest.

and I agree the USA had the material and men advantage. But so did the UK in the American Revolution.So did so many armies over time who have lost.The USA/Union was a representative democracy. They could have lost the war simply by the populace saying enough is enough.That almost happened two times

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (Ks/+3)

340 The mere fact that the French are acting in such an over-the-top fashion to a strategic defence decision is further evidence, if any were needed, that France is not a serious country and we need pay it no heed.

Posted by: David Gillies at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (tjHrt)


They have good cheese.

Posted by: Javems at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (AmoqO)

341 #333 if Bi den told him to he would do that.
If Bi den didn't say otherwise he would do that.

Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 01:01 PM (aa+zj)

342
g'early afternoon, 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at September 19, 2021 01:01 PM (DUIap)

343 FIRST NOOD

Posted by: Skip guy who says NOOD at September 19, 2021 01:01 PM (2JoB8)

344 The Goths sing about wishing they could bang a girl even though they secretly want to bang each other.
Posted by: garrett at September 19, 2021 12:58 PM (xTW+j)

Or not so secretly. And then proceed to do so.

I don't judge. Bang whoever you want.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 19, 2021 01:02 PM (/ikTA)

345
Her Majesty was driving to a National Specialty in Gettysburg and got there around midnight. The GPS took her through the battlefield. Even the dogs could feel the ghosts.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 19, 2021 01:02 PM (/U27+)

346 309 It's simple, really. Say you're Austrailian and operating your submarine, and you have a problem, like a pump's acting up. You can't just order one from Grainger. ;;;
-----------

Had a Mack (mack sold out to Renault), overall it wasn't a bad truck unless you needed a repair that required a part. Which had to be shipped from Europe. Which could take up to 6 months.

Posted by: Braenyard at September 19, 2021 01:02 PM (UJBzp)

347 340 The mere fact that the French are acting in such an over-the-top fashion to a strategic defence decision is further evidence, if any were needed, that France is not a serious country and we need pay it no heed.

Posted by: David Gillies at September 19, 2021 12:38 PM (tjHrt)
--------------

They are very serious, they just have a unique way of looking at things.

Posted by: Braenyard at September 19, 2021 01:03 PM (UJBzp)

348
are we re-litigating The War of Northern Aggression? again?

Posted by: AltonJackson at September 19, 2021 01:04 PM (DUIap)

349 one before Gettysburg and one after Gettysburg. We now say it had to happen,but the people back then were shitting bricks. Anyone think Lee would have gone on a campaign with no chance of success? And look at all the Union dead. I know you are not discounting that. I am making my own point, my own statement on the issue since I have never commented on it lol.

I think the odds makers back then would have given the CSA at least a 50-50 chance.I know most don't believe that,and that is the reason to keep studying history.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:04 PM (Ks/+3)

350 Sabaton, who writes songs about heroic soldiers throughout history, did an anti-war song. Also one about the holocaust. I think sad moods break the essence of Sabaton, so I don't care for them.

https://youtu.be/zvdbDw5bXnQ

Posted by: BourbonChicken at September 19, 2021 01:04 PM (ybIRR)

351 The Goths sing about wishing they could bang a girl even though they secretly want to bang each other.

Posted by: garrett at September 19, 2021 12:58 PM (xTW+j)

Lol. This.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 19, 2021 01:04 PM (VwHCD)

352 Somebody's trying to. They ought to get a newsletter like that Covid one.

Maybe they could team up and cut costs.

Posted by: Braenyard at September 19, 2021 01:05 PM (UJBzp)

353 The Mosin-Nagants have sights that go out to 1,000 meters (maybe a bit more, should check), formerly "arshin", a measurement used by imperial Russia. Iron sights. So, obviously for indirect fire. Massed indirect rifle fire, sort of micro-artillery.

There was also massed use as anti-aircraft weapons. Have seen photos of the training, no idea how much this was done in combat. And of course the Arisaka at least, probably other rifles, had anti-aircraft sights or options for same.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 01:05 PM (OTzUX)

354 We're not going to have to worry about France leaking our submarine secrets to Chi nah. I'm sure Milley has already done that.

So something else is bugging the Big Green Machine about France.

Posted by: torabora at September 19, 2021 01:05 PM (aa+zj)

355 Willowed but anyway, French just offed head of ISIS in Greater Sahara (one of the kook jihadi franchises), via drone I believe. They can be quite serious and very competent. In parts of Africa where they have perceived interests or historic ties, generally, one doesn't mess with them. And their actions accord, generally, with our and "western" interests.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at September 19, 2021 01:07 PM (OTzUX)

356
and I agree the USA had the material and men advantage. But so did the UK in the American Revolution.So did so many armies over time who have lost.The USA/Union was a representative democracy. They could have lost the war simply by the populace saying enough is enough.That almost happened two times
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:00 PM (Ks/+3)


The Brits had a huge logistical problem called the Atlantic Ocean. Plus they had problems from those other pesky European nations. They chose their priorities.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 01:09 PM (Fs5vw)

357 Shelby Foote summed it up pretty good at the end of a documentary I watched: The South never had a chance of winning that war.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (Fs5vw)

he was wrong.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:09 PM (Ks/+3)

358 The Brits had a huge logistical problem called the Atlantic Ocean. Plus they had problems from those other pesky European nations. They chose their priorities.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 01:09 PM (Fs5vw)

very true.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:11 PM (Ks/+3)

359 Plus they had problems from those other pesky European nations.
------------------------
Bloody Frogs!

Posted by: andycanuck (UHVv4) at September 19, 2021 01:11 PM (UHVv4)

360 Slapping tariffs on other countries to improve manufacturing always works! Thanks to us, the 1930s were a massive boom period for the United States AND the world!

Posted by: Smoot Hawley Tariff at September 19, 2021 01:12 PM (CdZ4i)

361 but still if Las Vegas existed back then,all the money would have gone toward Britain. History i funny. Probably the best way to study it is to never draw a foregone conclusion. read it backwards and it will be more interesting.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:13 PM (Ks/+3)

362 357 Shelby Foote summed it up pretty good at the end of a documentary I watched: The South never had a chance of winning that war.

Posted by: Justsayin' at September 19, 2021 12:46 PM (Fs5vw)

he was wrong.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:09 PM (Ks/+3)

What a deep, insightful riposte.

The North had the industrial capacity and 22 million people versus the South's mostly ag and 9 million. Yeah, they had an embarrassment of riches in military leadership, but that's the only thing that could keep them going.

Posted by: Smoot Hawley Tariff at September 19, 2021 01:15 PM (CdZ4i)

363 @rhomboid, SAFAD (small arms for air defense) is well known for being far more dangerous for people on the ground than for airplanes. Big sky, little bullet.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at September 19, 2021 01:15 PM (N96yY)

364 The sock must die for I am a cow demon that just needs to be swept away.

Posted by: Cow Demon at September 19, 2021 01:15 PM (CdZ4i)

365 The North had the industrial capacity and 22 million people versus the South's mostly ag and 9 million. Yeah, they had an embarrassment of riches in military leadership, but that's the only thing that could keep them going.

Posted by: Smoot Hawley Tariff at September 19, 2021 01:15 PM (CdZ4i)

I love all the takes and I use them to add to my own views. They are not set in stone, if that were the case, how could I learn anything new. I recall a famous historian said yeah, the North had the advantage in men, materiel, international relations etc. But then what? They always had that. The war still went on four years and at least twice the population was ready to call it quits.

what gets me is the inevitable stuff. It is wrong, though understood. I know most are taught exactly that. Hell most today are never taught one thing about any Civil War battle.

It is also demeaning to both sides when you think about it. If that were true, both sides would have a lot of explaining to do.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:21 PM (Ks/+3)

366 What a deep, insightful riposte.

Posted by: Smoot Hawley Tariff at September 19, 2021 01:15 PM (CdZ4i)

i didn't notice your dig before because as everyone here knows I am good natured. But I don't want to get through to you.I want to be honest with people who read the blog and want to learn new things.

To be honest, my answer was right on and could not have been improved by another word or one less word. Foote was wrong. He was an excellent writer,with a great Southern drawl. But he was not a historian, his famous book didn't even have footnotes. You want to get into this with me? I will do it for the sake of the blog. But I promise you, you are already down by 20 points. And that is because iu have discussed the subject for years and have never tried to dunk on someone.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:29 PM (Ks/+3)

367 At least the French foreign minister didn't say "I faaart in your general direction!"

Kidding aside, I wonder if we will hear that the board of directors of General Dynamics or of a new subsidiary to be formed with an Australian firm will include Hunter Biden? Could it be that the impetus for this new alliance is really the businesses that will profit from it?

I didn't used to think this way. Now I see corruption everywhere. Is that just from getting old?

Posted by: George V at September 19, 2021 01:37 PM (U2Tva)

368 France refused to let us fly over their airspace - and thus had to fly around the Iberian Peninsula - when we bombed Uncle Mommar in 1986.

I was in the USAF at the time and we lost two airmen because of that.

Fuck France.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at September 19, 2021 01:44 PM (jWe5r)

369 Peeling off the Brits is a good move really. They where a big part of the Euro Airbus/military cabal. No question they have been smart enough to be in it with us as well. Rolls Royce has worked with Americans on defense for decades.
Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 11:35 AM (Ks/+3)

Fir decades, there were ads in the trade press about very Herc and Orion ever built flying with Allison engines. Then one day I noticed that same ad said they had always flown with RR engines.

This was back when GM was getting rid of everything that didn't make cars, such as Electro-Motive. Frigidaire. And Allison.

Posted by: Fox2 at September 19, 2021 01:45 PM (qyH+l)

370 France refused to let us fly over their airspace - and thus had to fly around the Iberian Peninsula - when we bombed Uncle Mommar in 1986.

I was in the USAF at the time and we lost two airmen because of that.

Fuck France.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at September 19, 2021 01:44 PM (jWe5r)

no one forgets that.

Posted by: Quint at September 19, 2021 01:53 PM (Ks/+3)

371 Diesel electric boats make sense defending coastlines. They can be very dangerous, but only in very specific (nasty sonar conditions/ water deeper than 200 fathoms/benefiting from contested air space) but in terms of an oceanic conflict they make less sense than the RAF buying biplanes instead of Spitfires and Hurricanes in 1940.

The French have always been there when they needed us.

Posted by: TmjUtah at September 19, 2021 02:46 PM (z+sjn)

372 I miss him so much....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUQm7UqF-YA

Posted by: Java Joe at September 19, 2021 02:52 PM (2p/1y)

373 Talk about mean girls. The French are really pushing buttons when they equate the adults in the room, those with experience and plans, to Orange diaper baby. That will leave a (well-deserved) mark!

Posted by: Oldfogey at September 19, 2021 04:51 PM (NWnwl)

374 The reality is that Canberra was getting frustrated by the French sub deal because Naval group (the prime contractor) had made very little progress in five years, the final build cost kept increasing and the completion date of the first boat kept getting pushed back. Canberra has very publicly expressed their increasing frustration about the project with Naval Group and the French Government over the last few years even going as far to warn them that if the program didn't get back on track soon Canberra may be forced to examine alternative options. The French ignored this and continued stuffing around and padding the contract because they assumed that they had Australia over a barrel on the deal because there were no other viable conventionally powered Submarine designs that met Australia's specific requirements. In the end given the deteriorating strategic situation in the Western Pacific and the need to have these new submarines online sooner rather than later Canberra said stuff it and went to its major security partners in England and the USA and made a better deal. The reality is that France f**ked and found out and have only themselves to blame for the loss of this contract.

Posted by: Hellridr at September 19, 2021 09:41 PM (NTMHR)

375 Doesn't matter, either way, France who would not build anywhere near what the Australian's wanted and the Australian's will probably have to base their subs anywhere BUT Australia because of the anti Nuke policies.
There is already a "Chernobyl at sea" movement to cancel the Subs.
By the time they have those subs, who will be based in Guam no doubt the Chinese will have three times as many ASW platforms, the US military will be a paper tiger and Taiwan will belong to China.
Doesn't. Matter.

Posted by: obsidian at September 20, 2021 11:20 AM (HvbS2)

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