Gun Thread: Sunday Evening Edition!

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Howdy, Ya'll! Welcome to the wonderously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also a big welcome any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

So wrapping up kind of a crazy week. The NoVaMoMe is behind us, and I have had a few things going on that have kept me at home rather than down at the farm doing some much needed shooting practice. It's 'pointy-end' downrange, right? The weather this coming week seems to be reasonable, so maybe I'll make it down there for a few days. I really need to check on things, do some chores, and spend a little time behind a few guns.

With that, let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

******

Lately we've been talking about the aftermath of a self-defense use of force, and what to say and what not to say to the responding police officers. There are a lot of videos available on what to expect at the scene, and later when being questioned at the police station, where you are almost certainly going to be taken. I think it's safe to say the first person you want to have a conversation with is an attorney, and with the possible exception of our pal bluebell, most of us do not have defense attorneys on retainer. That's a problem.

So what do you do? Who do you call with that one phone call you're allowed to make? It's probably a good idea to think about this before you're in the pokey and staring blankly at the phone.

The cost of your defense is probably going to be significant, and you are going to want someone representing you who has very specific and relevant experience, and that is not your cousin Vinny. It's very easy for me to believe some of the six-digit estimates of what your self-defense defense might ultimately cost you, and you need to get it right the first time. This is also probably not a great time to start clipping coupons and trying to save a few dollars. Competent counsel is going to be expensive. So what do you do? Start looking through the yellow pages? Do they even have yellow pages anymore?

Here is a 15 minute video on the legal defense cost question.

In order to mitigate the risk of giving all of your money to an attorney and going to prison anyway, many people have turned to self-defense insurance for a solution. There are three main providers of this type of product.

- USCCA or U.S. Concealed Carry Association

- U.S. Law Shield

- CCW Safe

Here's a video comparing the three:

Not all companies and coverages are the same, and each have programs designed to sell you additional add-on products once you become a member. Have you chosen one, and are you covered? Which one did you choose and why? Let's go back to the earlier question; you've just been involved in a self defense shooting and have invoked your right to counsel. Who are you going to call? It seems to me to be a really good idea to have this planned in advance, with a 24 hour telephone number for your first call to an attorney in your wallet next to your concealed carry license.

Our pal and occasional Gun Thread commenter Andrew Branca is a recognized expert on the Law of Self Defense and offers a Platinum Membership which includes legal consulting services. I encourage you to check out his site also.

WeaselThoughts
Insurance exists to protect you from catastrophic economic losses. It does not eliminate risk altogether, but rather shares the risk with an insurer. I have a $500 deductible on my automobile policies, because I can afford the $500 should a loss occur. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I'm probably not going to miss many meals if I have to cough up that amount to get the car fixed with the insurer picking up the rest. Keeping your ass out of prison seems like a really very good idea, unfortunately, you could quickly end up needing to sell everything you own to pay for even barely adequate legal representation, and depending on your circumstances even that may not be enough. If you are going to carry a gun, you really owe it to yourself to think about these things to protect yourself and your assets after the shooting stops.

At a minimum, these plans offer the opportunity to speak with an attorney immediately, which is clearly something you need to do. Beyond that, the levels of coverage vary, and you may find later in the process you need to engage subject matter expert witnesses on your own dime, but some level of initial coverage seems to me like a very good idea.

So, am I full of shit? Are any of you willing to go it alone and face the possible economic consequences should the unthinkable occur? Again, have you insured yourself, who did you choose, and why did you choose them?

******

First up, we have an interesting issue with surplus ammunition from our pal rhomboid.

Last duty day at the range, an older guy had a beautiful (honest wear/tear) 1911, WWII issue, that he said his father, an Army physician, had used. He also had some 45ACP ammo he'd inherited from his father. Remington commercial production, dated April 1941.

rhomboid 1 072521 scaled.jpg

rhomboid 2 072521 scaled.jpg

rhomboid 3 072521 scaled.jpg

rhomboid 4 072521 scaled.jpg

The ammo looks fine, a bit of patina on it, no sign of water or other damage to boxes, which are also in excellent condition. However - all this ammo was a dud, when fired not just from his 1911, but those of two other shooters next to him on the bench, who also tried it out. Nice big dimples on the primers from firing pin strikes. Perhaps some more expert Moron can comment on the interesting terms on the boxes: "Full Patch" and "Staynless Oilproof". Intriguing, and there's no "patch" of any kind, I'm disassembling the rounds to use the bullets.

Very interesting rhomboid. I do not think I have ever had a single dud that I can recall when shooting surplus ammunition. I have to think the most likely culprit was improper storage at some point. Anyone else?

******

Next up we have a great range & match report from our pal Blake

Definition of a gun nut: A guy who will drive 75 minutes to spend a minute and a half shooting.

Today saw my first rifle/pistol combo shoot at the Kern River Valley Gun Range. Very low round count: 10 rifle, 20 pistol, but it was a fun match, though arguably it was an event that involved guns, so no way to avoid having fun. Because I cannot pass up a chance to shoot my Garand in a competition, naturally, that was the rifle I brought. Surprisingly, I didn't do too badly.

The match opened with the rifle, shooting roughly 25 yards, through a doorway, at two balloons. The balloons, after bursting, released two swinging targets, each of which required two rounds on target.

But wait, there's more! The balloons were set up so one partially covered the other, about 30%, but, one was required to shoot them individually, or, a penalty was involved. Yeah, I pulled off the balloon sequence, and managed to make the shots. After that, meh what did I care, because hey, I pulled off a shot most of the competitors struggled with.

Unfortunately, I misunderstood the rules, and, didn't realize this was a limited match so I lost some points due to procedural errors, i.e., too many rounds on targets.

This was a great match for me to shoot, as I was unfamiliar with the people, setup, etc., so a bit of adrenaline was pumping. Yet, I still managed to make my shots which was good.

One thing to note: Even if at a match where you don't know anyone, don't be afraid to speak up and get clarity on safety rules. Sometimes, the smaller clubs don't do a good job of articulating safety rules, so, don't be afraid to speak up!

Even though the match didn't involve a lot of shooting, it was still a lot of fun.

Excellent report, blake! As some of you will recall, I have often advocated match shooting as training tool. When I was shooting competitively, I would use club-level matches as training opportunities, or sometimes mid-range matches as a warm up for more important long range events. With a little planning, any range time can be productive!

******

Here's a very good and short video on on considerations for patterning your shotgun for self-defense. [h/t] redc1c4

Really interesting - anyone else doing this?

******

Some of Jerry Miculek's favorite guns, in case you were wondering.

How much fun would it be to have 'Jer' at the TXMoMe?

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Wyoming DOT gets a Howitzer!

Well that looks like fun!

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Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop

***Mail Bag***

Our pal WTM shares a great photo. Is that cool, or what?

tommy gun scaled.jpg

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Bang!

Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 06:02 PM (nfrXX)

2 and so it begins

Posted by: that guy that always thinks it's beginning at August 01, 2021 06:02 PM (i9ZF7)

3 Tonight, it's run what ya brung, and no alibis.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 06:03 PM (a3Q+t)

4 Please don't tell me what you have in your basement unless I can come play with it.
Germany: WW2 Panther tank seized from pensioner's cellar

https://tinyurl.com/au4vr67u

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2021 06:04 PM (qaiJN)

5 Shoot Yeah Buddy.

Posted by: That Guy What Always Says Yeah Buddy TM at August 01, 2021 06:05 PM (R5lpX)

6 What does Staynless on the cartridge box mean?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 06:06 PM (yQpMk)

7 Lately we've been talking about the aftermath of a self-defense use of force, and what to say and what not to say to the responding police officers.


"I plan to cooperate fully. AFTER I speak with my attorney."

Period. Full stop.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 06:06 PM (OCTRt)

8 I found that the AK fits quite nicely in a trombone case, with room for all those extra mags, and I have soft side guitar case with the double shoulder straps that fits a 1897 trench gun.

I would suggest a viola case for a tommy gun by the way

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2021 06:08 PM (qaiJN)

9 "you could quickly end up needing to sell everything you own to pay for even barely adequate legal representation"

And this is equality under the law? Sheesh.
(Yeah, yeah, I know. But the kvetching is necessary.)

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:08 PM (IVYWX)

10 The only dud (other than .22LR) I can recall was a Wolf .223 round whose primer sort of cracked in two.

And Wolf offered absolutely no information and were sort of douchy about the whole thing.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 06:09 PM (Q9lwr)

11
g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at August 01, 2021 06:09 PM (DUIap)

12 All of this has me really shaken up. I'll speak with you tomorrow. And then... SHUT UP...

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:09 PM (6Je/Q)

13 I haven't watched a second of the Woke-olympics but did see this and doubt they are Woksters

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/trio of us shootersclaim-olympic gold

https://tinyurl.com/2beyeu3k

Posted by: Skip at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM (Cxk7w)

14 Back in the 80's we shot surplussed 303 that was made in the 20's through the 40's it was quality stuff. I would not worry about 1941 .45 ACP, the only shame is it can be collectable to the right collector. Like one who needs a box for his display case.

Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM (qaiJN)

15 Ah, Staynless seems to refer to the primers.

https://bit.ly/3ykr3uP

But you said they were all duds so, staynless but not immaculate.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM (yQpMk)

16 That Tommy Gun Set Up Is Gorgeous!

Posted by: davidt at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM (F7Ght)

17 Guy in my Sunday School class asked me this morning what kind of handgun to buy his wife. I told him never to buy his wife a handgun nor allow a salesman to sell his wife a handgun. Instead let her buy what she wants after handling and firing a couple dozen.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM (0OP+5)

18 I use USCCA. Got the lawyer card behind the CCW in my wallet.

Posted by: That Deplorable SOB Van Owen at August 01, 2021 06:11 PM (CmPBR)

19 Lobsters molt in the summer and about 1/3 of their body weight then becomes water.

Posted by: Jamaica Queens at August 01, 2021 06:11 PM (b+v9B)

20 The patina on the 45acp rounds seems to me to say bad storage somewhere.

Posted by: Skip at August 01, 2021 06:12 PM (Cxk7w)

21 If someone can get me "Jer's" contact info I will definitely make sure he gets an invite. Also the gal the does the videos.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 01, 2021 06:12 PM (WQsA3)

22 Posted by: Kindltot at August 01, 2021 06:04 PM (qaiJN)

Is that a flak 88 he also had in his basement?

Posted by: clutch at August 01, 2021 06:12 PM (9UmRs)

23 Range Strange Report:

Gave the Sig P238 a go, along with some "refresher" rounds from the Taurus Titanium Model 85. Things weren't right. Slightly left, actually. Of the "X" ring. And my "groups" were about three times the size of my normal. I can usually keep 25 rds. each in the "X" ring from the Taurus at least, and I was having trouble even staying in the "10", and that with the group left of the "X".

Turns out, my 1.5 readers are rendering the front sight clearly, and so I'm going to try it again with a pair of 1.75s. One small review detail on the Sig, of which I'll report more in detail, later. It's grooved trigger is a sharp-edged little bugger, with a bite unique to this gun. A little edge-breaking with some emery cloth will be in order, I think.

Meanwhile. What carry rig for Howitzer? Humvee or Deuce n'a Half?


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 06:12 PM (QzJWU)

24 Love the 45 in the case photo but that is going to seem like the heaviest fricking violin on the planet until they open the case.

Posted by: JTB at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (7EjX1)

25 Best caliber to shoot lobsters with??

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (6Je/Q)

26 Grump 928
Staynless was Winchester/Olin's answer to Remington Kleenbore primers. Both Kleenbore and Staynless were touted as non corrosive and sometime just before WWII, Winchester got rid of mercuric primers. Dunno about Kleenbore but the transition was on to eliminate potassium chlorate primers that caused bores to rust without prompt cleaning (left salts that absorbed water). Winchester Staynless labeled primers and ammo were made until the early 50's

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (pO7gM)

27 Hey there Weasel! Hey there gun cranks...No range report for me yet, still packing to un ass DC...
Hope everyone else had a great week and got some shooting in...
As always though, THANKS WEASEL!!!

Posted by: jesse in dc at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (fLIYo)

28 "Yeah. You blend."

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (EZebt)

29 "I plan to cooperate fully. AFTER I speak with my attorney."

Period. Full stop.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 06:06 PM (OCTRt)


Lots of folks noted last week (and week before, I think) that giving a basic narration of events to the cops so they can preserve witnesses and evidence was important.

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (IVYWX)

30 The dud ammo rhomboid sent a pic of reminded me of something. My inherited M1 came with a box of 30.06 that the gunsmith said looks good. He did throw out some of it. What should a newbie look for on long-stored ammo to see if it's a problem? This box had gotten wet, and I was more looking for proper disposal of the ammo as I thought it all would be ruined. Is it more likely not to go boom than to explode like the video a few weeks ago?

Thanks for the thread, Weasel!

Posted by: Catherine at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (vdTIg)

31 Hiya, Weasel! Hiya, Horde!
I am with CCW Safe. I looked at USCCA, but they were having some issues as I was considering which one to choose. CCW Safe has excellent support, articles and videos about all things concealed carry, self defense situations (not only with firearms), and interactions with the legal system. Every now and again an email from them will appear with another article or video. Highly recommended.

Posted by: Numbuh Two, 2x4 Technology Operative (YWBlw) at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (YWBlw)

32 I always thought it was just a fable tommyguns in violin cases.

Posted by: Skip at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (Cxk7w)

33 "The ammo looks fine, a bit of patina on it, no sign of water or other
damage to boxes, which are also in excellent condition. However - all
this ammo was a dud, when fired not just from his 1911, but those of two
other shooters next to him on the bench, who also tried it out. Nice
big dimples on the primers from firing pin strikes. Perhaps some more
expert Moron can comment on the interesting terms on the boxes: "Full
Patch" and "Staynless Oilproof". Intriguing, and there's no "patch" of
any kind, I'm disassembling the rounds to use the bullets."

80 years of questionable storage will degrade any ammo. I had some .357 magnum ammo that I found in a closet in the garage that had been there for over 25 years and it would not fire. Temperature extremes will degrade ammo even faster.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (JUOKG)

34 Posted by: jesse in dc at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (fLIYo)-
---
Howdy bro!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (MVjcR)

35 Howdy Weasel, the midrange match that I was in a couple of weeks ago, they put me in tactical, my buddies were shooting in sling but most of the guys were shooting F class. I got my tablet hooked into the range targeting system so I'm going to give it another try next Saturday. I also ordered a 20 moa scope mount to take out to the 1000 yard match next month, I only need 32 moa and my scope tops out at 38 but that will keep me a little closer to the center of my lenses.

Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (iBg56)

36 Thank you for the content Weasel!
Regarding who you are gonna call if the SHTF. I found myself in a non gun related predicament some few years ago. One of the first things they did was take away my cell phone. I was left in a cell with a bunch of fellow hoodlums, and a phone we were supposed to share, but no idea of a number I could call.
Once I escaped, haha, I realized I probably should have the number tattooed somewhere? Or memorize someones number etc. Be prepared.

Posted by: MikeM at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (tA/XW)

37 Anyone ever "stroked" a 1911?...given the slide more travel?

Posted by: BignJames at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (AwYPR)

38 Howdy gub threaders!

USCCA Platinum for me and the missus.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (mbFEM)

39 Just gotta say re the sidebar:
that story about the rioter who got beaned in the head? Feel-good news story of the year!

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (L2ZTs)

40 I would like to see the annual costs of an insurance policy geared towards gun owners. Over, say, a decade.
Vs.
The actual costs of a one in a decade cost for a typical firearm incident with existing homeowner's or typical insurance (a rider if necessary) against this type of insurance.

Gimmick comes to mind.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (BFigT)

41 Is the Howitzer for avalanches?

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (2DOZq)

42 Gun thread!!!

I can't stay right now but will try to come back later.

Maybe Bluebell will show up and give us all advice about keeping a criminal attorney on retainer.

Posted by: Ladyl at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (+4oV5)

43 Had an interesting interaction with a home defense shotgun I purchased last year.

It's a Barretta Comp 1301, semi auto.

Like I said, never shot it. Just haven't taken the time. But the thing was sitting in my closet, with shells in the tube ready to go should that need arise.

The other day I realized it's been a year since I went through the manual on load/unload and operation and if I was being honest with myself, I couldn't remember the operation at all. It's a different beast than a standard pump action.

I took it out, had to pull the manual to read how to operate everything again before unloading it and finally deciding it makes more sense to store it for good until I take the time to gain muscle memory on its operation.

I have muscle memory on handguns. Wheel guns, semi autos and even rifles. But not that shotgun.

Moral of the story - don't rely on a gun you bought and never practice with to save your life. Just dumb. Don't be me. Shoot the damn things at the range until it's engrained.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (4fSQf)

44 Jim, we normally used a deuce and a half for the M101A1 howitzer, but a Gama Goat worked well getting them out of the sand on Onslow Beach.

Posted by: That Deplorable SOB Van Owen at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (CmPBR)

45 Hey steve!!

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (6Je/Q)

46 Best caliber to shoot lobsters with??
Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM

OK, maybe one time 145acp isn't the best choice.

Posted by: Skip at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (Cxk7w)

47 Posted by: Catherine at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (vdTIg)
------
Howdy and welcome Catherine!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (MVjcR)

48 So after the fit hits the shan, what will be the code word for "gun"?

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (L2ZTs)

49 ..Turns out, my 1.5 readers aren't rendering the front sight clearly.

typeD'oh!


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (QzJWU)

50 My DPMS SBR came last week so I have been putting little holes in cardboard and cans behind the shot. Great full auto bb fun but only 25 rounds per mag. It's pretty hefty and well built.

It's pretty accurate at 25 -40 feet but over 50 it's beebees so what do you expect. Also the sights are crap but it has rails so you can put whatever you want on it. I wish there was a 100 round mag and I would rate it excellent.

Posted by: f'd at August 01, 2021 06:16 PM (Tnijr)

51 Hey kraken!
You know they named a rum after you right?

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (L2ZTs)

52 I probably should have the number tattooed somewhere?

Posted by: MikeM at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (tA/XW)

inside your eyelid

Posted by: BignJames at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (AwYPR)

53 Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (pO7gM)


Now, see, that's why you read the comments around here! Good stuff!

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (IVYWX)

54 1/x. Went to Elite Shooting Sports (ESS) in Manassas VA on Saturday. Originally sra blaster and I were going to meet up with Hrothgar and Sharon(willow's apprentice) and Iris on Sunday but we have teen girls and you know plans go awry.

I usually shoot at NRAHQ. ESS advertises itself as the most advanced range in the country. It's a step up from the NRA range actually so probably so. The owner is a former manager of the NRA range so I guess he learned some stuff there.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (mbFEM)

55 Staynless was Winchester/Olin's answer to Remington Kleenbore primers.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:13 PM (pO7gM)



It is scary how much some of you Morons know.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (yQpMk)

56 Shop not shot.

Posted by: f'd at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (Tnijr)

57 Hey Weasel. Another great gun thread, thanks.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (L2ZTs)

58 Thanks for the kind mention!

--Andrew

Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (HMC8i)

59 51 Hey kraken!
You know they named a rum after you right?
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (L2ZTs)

Yeah... have not tried it yet...

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (6Je/Q)

60 I always thought it was just a fable tommyguns in violin cases.
Posted by: Skip


Always thought it was funny that they would put it in a violin case when it's nickname was "Chicago Typewriter".

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (OCTRt)

61 2/x. The range is automated from intake to shooting and has a different vibe than NRA. And right now NRA has to abide by all the COVID restrictions. Every other lane, masks, no more than two shooters per lane and must be closely related to share. None of that at ESS. Range Safety Officers were very unobtrusive. It's a nice place. Not that NRA isn't. But this is nicer. Range fees are very reasonable (25 yd lane is $20. Same as in town.). Or you could become a member for $35/mo ($50 initiation fee) and then you have access to all the ranges. They don't say it is unlimited but looks like an unlimited plan.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (mbFEM)

62 USCCA, just ignore the attempts to sell you everything under the sun. Wife is covered too, as can be sued for an event occurring at home as well

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (RJCvt)

63 Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:15 PM (iBg56)
----
Let us know how it goes!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (MVjcR)

64 kraken, I'm thinking of bringing some Skrewball and Howler Head to the TXMoMee.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (L2ZTs)

65 Regarding ammunition: I've an ammo container I used exclusively for matches, loose 45 acp rounds, with mags on top.

It finally penetrated that I hadn't shot my way to the bottom of the case in a few years, so, I set about doing so. Just about there. Obviously, this requires a bit of planning, so, I bring a few boxes of 45 acp for that magic day when I finally empty my ammo box. Which will be in about 2 weeks. (next IDPA match)

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:19 PM (2SdPm)

66 Weasel, you're gonna be at the TX MoMee right?

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:19 PM (L2ZTs)

67 3/x. My visit to the range was to try out a new to me Ruger P95DC. My original has a stainless slide (yes I bought it in 2000 as a two tone yuppie gun) and this one is blued. But otherwise they are the same. Mostly. Because as it turns out there is a difference. My stainless one just shoots. Everything. It will eat steelcase TulAmmo with not a single problem. This one was more problematic.

I didn't take the factory 10 rd mags that it came with because they were loaded up with Hornady Critical Defenses and I was too lazy too unload when there were a couple of empty mags right there in my bag. Well, this pistol did not like one of those mags at all. Slide wouldn't even go forward. I tried different things with it. I could put it in just right and it would shoot. But it might stovepipe. Or it might just kind of jam up. Or, if it was empty, it wouldn't hold the slide back. The other mag was perfect at first, and then it would not let the slide go all the way forward after a shot. And then it would stovepipe. Or it would be fine. It was very inconsistent.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:19 PM (mbFEM)

68 64 kraken, I'm thinking of bringing some Skrewball and Howler Head to the TXMoMee.
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (L2ZTs)

Be sure and let your Bail Bondsman know....

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:19 PM (6Je/Q)

69 No shooting for me out here. All public lands are closed because of fire danger. Happens every year and it's real. Can't afford a lawyer for self defense? ,Imagine paying to put out a brush fire.
The WYDOT 105 is cool. WA state has used those, 75 mm pak howitzers, 105 mm recoilless rifles and a couple of M-60 tanks, 90 MM, I think, for pass avalanche control. Cool to watch them work asw well as bomb dropping from helicopters.

Posted by: Winston, GOPe, not one dime, not one vote at August 01, 2021 06:20 PM (FtJ1S)

70 58 Thanks for the kind mention!

--Andrew
Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 06:17 PM (HMC8i)
-----
Absolutely!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:20 PM (MVjcR)

71 30 Catherine, the headstamp on the ammo, if military, will indicate the year of production. One should never use corroded ammo and if you have an M1 Garand, one should be careful as to not use commercial ammo not labeled for a Garand.

The normal problem with old ammo is duds as seen above or something called a hangfire which can be dangerous. That is that the powder is slow to ignite resulting in the click, delay, then boom. If the round is in the process of being extracted when it goes boom then it will fragment. Other problems depending on the powder can be changed burn rates resulting in either more pressure and faster ammo or less pressure and ammo nearly falling to the ground or being stuck in the barrel.

There are other issues but that is all for now. I would get new ammo for the Garand personally as they are severely collectible and fixing one would be expensive. New ammo is cheaper than a medical bill and fixing a rifle.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:20 PM (pO7gM)

72 4/x. I am sure it was the mags as they acted differently. Though it may have been compounded by ammo as they weren't box ammo they were purchased at a gun show in plastic bags and they are reloads. But I don't think it's the ammo.

The factory mag for the first generation P95s were 10 rounders. These mags were pro mag 15 rounders. Searching forums everyone has mag troubles with every brand apparently but the pro mags were called out for the behavior I experienced on several with P95s. Some people are like hey they are fine others are like they are crap. Well I get both because they work just fine in the stainless one. I expect the factory mags will run fine in this pistol but will need another range trip to find out.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:20 PM (mbFEM)

73 Keeping both a criminal and civil lawyer's business card handy at all times does seem like a good idea. When I got shitcanned last year I knew I needed to get the various agreements reviewed by counsel pronto, but didn't have anyone lined up which led to a bit of panic trying to find a good one and get it taken care of.

Posted by: CppThis at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (8h1h1)

74 kraken, I was hoping to skip telling him. That way maybe I can get Dog The Bounty Hunter to make a cameo at the MoMee. ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (L2ZTs)

75 "you could quickly end up needing to sell everything you own to pay for even barely adequate legal representation"

**

Yep. This is why I went with CCW Safe. I'm old enough and have lived frugally enough that I've accumulated a bit of wealth, and I don't want it to disappear because Deonkay decides to break into my house in an election year.

I went with them after comparing plans. I don't remember the specifics, but I remember their overall amounts being very high, and no "you pay and then we reimburse you" silliness. They also cover any self defense act, not just ones including firearms, and will fight "red flag" attempts against you IIRC.

It isn't the one for everyone but it was the one for me and my family.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (em09h)

76 66 Weasel, you're gonna be at the TX MoMee right?
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:19 PM (L2ZTs)
--------
If they will let me come back!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (MVjcR)

77 This is why I have USCCA coverage. Rather than relying on the family lawyer who probably doesn't have expertise in this area, I have access to lwayers specializing in this.

Posted by: butch at August 01, 2021 06:22 PM (cHvOo)

78 74 kraken, I was hoping to skip telling him. That way maybe I can get Dog The Bounty Hunter to make a cameo at the MoMee. ;-)
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (L2ZTs)

At least you are not under house arrest, so safe travels...

Posted by: kraken at August 01, 2021 06:22 PM (6Je/Q)

79 FYI, for those of you who are USCCA members, or who may be considering becoming USCCA members, I would urge you tao take a look at my blog post on their failure to cover one of their Platinum-level members following a claimed self-defense shooting: https://lawofselfdefense.com/uscca

Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 06:23 PM (HMC8i)

80 Nice Tommy gun, one of the original batch that Colt made under contract for Thompson, pre military. I got to shoot one of that batch a few months ago. It was way cool but I need a lot of practice shooting in full auto, I was pretty pitiful, shot a horrible group!!

Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:23 PM (iBg56)

81 I'm thinking of bringing some Skrewball and Howler Head to the TXMoMee.
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:18 PM (L2ZTs)


And why have those not turned up as nicks around here? They seem terribly appropriate......

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:23 PM (IVYWX)

82 There a a few slots left for Weasel's gun clinic at the TXMoMe. Email him if you want in.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (WQsA3)

83 GWB, good point.

For those not in the know, Skrewball is a peanut butter-flavored whiskey, and Howler Head is a banana-flavored ("infused") Kentucky bourbon.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (L2ZTs)

84 Turns out, my 1.5 readers are[ n't* ] rendering the front sight clearly, and so I'm going to try it again with a pair of 1.75s

* assumed typo

Be sure you're adjusting in the right direction. My regular readers are 1.75 but I keep a pair of 1.25 in the range bag because the front sight is further away than a book or screen.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (nfrXX)

85 So, would it be unseemly for me to point out that I've now made honorable, or, dishonorable, mention on back to back threads?

In your face....ummmmm.....

Well, drat.

Thanks for the thread, weasel!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (2SdPm)

86 Did the .mil even do copper clad .45 then? I thought it was all LRN.

Posted by: RI Red - (z5WJZ) at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (rDsem)

87 IMHO all the specialty flavored whiskeys and bourbons are getting out of hand.

I hear Gwyneth Paltrow has one on the way... :-P

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (L2ZTs)

88 Since I moved to the country, I've shot less than when I lived in town. I guess it's just because it's been running 95+ degrees outside every day.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (OCTRt)

89 Very cool rhomboid. I was always a bit jealous of guys whos dads were in ww2 and brought back.45s. I never understood the torpedo in the backyard.

The ammo reminds me off some of the ammo and propellant we had in my first artillery battalion. Some of that crap was from 1944-45.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (axyOa)

90 Very interesting rhomboid. I do not think I have ever had a single dud that I can recall when shooting surplus ammunition. I have to think the most likely culprit was improper storage at some point. Anyone else?

------

I have had a number of issues with old .303. Now, this was mainly loose gun show ammo, 1950s British. A few duds, a few clean and most a slight click-bang. A few neck splits, here and there.

The old Pakistani .303 surplus from the early 2000s was nortorius for the click-bangs.

I currently have a couple of thousand rounds of mixed handstamp .303 in .50 cal cans. The last bulk of old surplus on the market. US, Canadian, British, US. 1917 -1950s. Some boxer primed and reloadable. About 25% with corrosion to pull for bullets. The rest a mix of clean shooting, to duds (the WWI ear, mainly, to click bangs. Got it cheap so not complaining.

The best old surplus .303 I have is late 1930s Indian. About 1000 rounds and 100% clean shooting. Odd because you would think the storage conditions would be similar to the Pakistani, and Indian-touched Enfield's I've seen and owned have not shown a lot of care in handling and storage.

Posted by: Keith - Pinochet/Bell Helicopter 202447 at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (jdGlx)

91 For those in the DC area. The Gainesville, Va Cabelas has 'limited stock' (usually means one or two) Pietta Navy Yank 36 caliber percussion revolver(s). This is the steel frame, 7.5", octagon barrel version. $280.00 is a decent price these days.

These get good reviews and would make a great intro to BP revolvers. (This is the model Wild Bill carried.) They work fine with Pyrodex P powder, although I prefer real black powder. The recoil is very mild. The problem of where to get percussion caps remains.

Just FYI.

I would get it myself but already have one.

Posted by: JTB at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (7EjX1)

92 Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 06:23 PM (HMC8i)
------
I cancelled them and went with U.S. Law Shield shortly thereafter.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (MVjcR)

93 75 I went with them after comparing plans. I don't remember the specifics, but I remember their overall amounts being very high, and no "you pay and then we reimburse you" silliness. They also cover any self defense act, not just ones including firearms, and will fight "red flag" attempts against you IIRC.

It isn't the one for everyone but it was the one for me and my family.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:21 PM (em09h)


I might look into that. The non-gun part sounds useful--I keep the boomsticks locked up like a good boi, but the same cannot be said of swords, knives, and various polearms so a fatal home-defense scenario not involving guns is very much a possibility.

Posted by: CppThis at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (8h1h1)

94 Someone offered me some Skrewball and peanut butter and whiskey just sounded like abomination to me. But it was actually good!

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM (mbFEM)

95 Also Weasel, I don't know if I've told you, but there's a really well-regarded new firearms shop that opened up right in my hometown, Wanney's Firearms.

I guess they're big on OPSEC as they don't even have a website up. Open by appointment only.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:26 PM (L2ZTs)

96 Rhomboid said: He also had some 45ACP ammo he'd inherited from his father. Remington commercial production, dated April 1941.
I see the problem with the ammo. I'm surprised you guys didn't see it. It's as plain as the nose on your faces........... Some joker put the Remington ammo in Winchester boxes. Probably to make them look bad................

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 06:26 PM (7bRMQ)

97 17 ... " I told him never to buy his wife a handgun nor allow a salesman to sell his wife a handgun. Instead let her buy what she wants after handling and firing a couple dozen."

THIS!!

Posted by: JTB at August 01, 2021 06:26 PM (7EjX1)

98 blaster, I wanna get Skrewball and the Howler Head and make an Elvis. :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:27 PM (L2ZTs)

99 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:24 PM (2SdPm)
-----
My pleasure, blake!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:27 PM (MVjcR)

100 Thanks, Whig!

Posted by: Catherine at August 01, 2021 06:27 PM (vdTIg)

101 Good evening, Morons.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 01, 2021 06:28 PM (CIzRU)

102 BIL just ran up and left his pew pew stuff at our house while they get their house in the DFW metroplex ready to sell and he handed me a sealed intact spam can of .30 cal M2 Ball, 192 round on enbloc clips in bandoleers.


This thing is pristine, no rust, no big dents this thing looks like it came straight out of the factory except for some dust. US Made in the Twin Cities Ammo plant in the mid 50s.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at August 01, 2021 06:28 PM (JUOKG)

103 Kraken
Not only a rum but a hockey team named in your honor.
Of course, it's in Seattle so you may want to not associate with them.

Posted by: Winston, GOPe, not one dime, not one vote at August 01, 2021 06:28 PM (FtJ1S)

104 The Kraken is our go to rum in casa blaster.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:29 PM (mbFEM)

105 Use a run of the mill tactical 12 gauge pump for home defense. I try to shoot it as often as possible, but the local range does not encourage shotguns. Every week, I rack all the rounds through the weapon, and reload. These rounds are the first used when do get to live fire. Helps retain familiarity with handling.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at August 01, 2021 06:30 PM (RJCvt)

106 Hash update, dammit.

Posted by: RI Red - (rDsem) at August 01, 2021 06:30 PM (rDsem)

107 Is that the troll that socks Regs?

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:31 PM (mbFEM)

108 blaster @ 72- I have factory mags, aftermarket mags, and various other mags but I carry factory mags for defense. Only exception is Wilson Combat mags which always work.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (0OP+5)

109 Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:31 PM (mbFEM)
---
yep. I'll deal with it.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (MVjcR)

110 Posted by: Diogenes at August 01, 2021 06:25 PM

/Being socked by boring

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (EZebt)

111 Those nasty .45 ACPs I would throw in the campfire so we could have fireworks display.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (bCkNL)

112 My inherited M1 came with a box of 30.06 that the gunsmith said looks good. He did throw out some of it. What should a newbie look for on long-stored ammo to see if it's a problem?

Pitting, cracking, black or green corrosion. Just my opinion, but as much as we bitch 'n' whine about ammo prices, it really isn't all that big a deal in the long run. Keep the old ammo as a memento and buy some newer factory stuff.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (nfrXX)

113 With lockdowns probably on the horizon again, if it applies to your needs and concerns, take this opportunity to buy some of the cheap ammo that starting to show back up. Might not get the chance again for a while (if ever).

Posted by: Moron Robbie - firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:33 PM (em09h)

114 Oh wow. Kraken also has a coffee rum.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:33 PM (L2ZTs)

115 Weasel: use your .357 Magnum on the punk... ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:33 PM (L2ZTs)

116 Ignore the troll please.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:34 PM (MVjcR)

117 Glowie's back.
How much the NSA pay ya in crack to troll her glowie?

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:34 PM (L2ZTs)

118 so, if there is no trickery in the clint smith vid, why is it when they blast the blue target at the end of the vid the red target that spins around does not have any marks showing?

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 06:35 PM (mOAwy)

119 Oops, sorry Weasel.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:35 PM (L2ZTs)

120 whig - I figured you'd know!

Did you mean to say *Remington* "Staynless"? This was Remington commercial (not surplus) - I don't think the guy knew why/how his Army father had pre-war commercial ammo for his 1911.

And of course they're not all known to be duds - since as you can see from the unmarked primers, an entire box was not tried in anyone's gun.

Very interesting. Well I'm netting about 80 230g FMJ projectiles out of the deal, as well as having been put some knowledge about older primer branding and development.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:35 PM (OTzUX)

121 /Being socked by boring
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 01, 2021 06:32 PM (EZebt)

Who is who here? Getting confused.

Posted by: blaster at August 01, 2021 06:35 PM (nb2vX)

122 I tried and liked Kraken. I tried some Blackheart recently and liked it as well. Completely different demographics and aimed more towards the Captain Morgan mixing crowd, but still tasty. Nice bottle art, too. Almost nose-art from WWII bombers.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:36 PM (em09h)

123 Gave the Sig P238 a go, along with some
"refresher" rounds from the Taurus Titanium Model 85.
Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 06:12 PM (QzJWU)
---
Huh, must have been something in the air. I also took my Taurus 85 Total Titanium out for a spin. To spice things up, I did the entire session left-handed (I am not a southpaw).

It went surprisingly well. Well, until the canoe accident afterwards.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 06:36 PM (llXky)

124 This box had gotten wet, and I was more looking for proper disposal of the ammo as I thought it all would be ruined. Is it more likely not to go boom than to explode like the video a few weeks ago?

Thanks for the thread, Weasel!
Posted by: Catherine at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (vdTIg)
-------------

Unless the box and ammo are explicitly labeled for use in an M1, do not use. If you know someone who has a good bolt gun chambered in 30.06, might be a good way to get rid of the ammo.

Though, I'd probably err on the side of caution and just get rid of the ammo, shortage or not.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:36 PM (2SdPm)

125 the hq is going to hell, in the overnight last night nobody understood what the ghm in the b&t ghm was for.

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 06:36 PM (mOAwy)

126 I see.

So, yeah interesting my stainless P95 doesn't care what mags. The blued one hates those promags

Posted by: blaster (mbFEM) at August 01, 2021 06:37 PM (mbFEM)

127 Moron Robbie, Blackheart Rum sounds like Joan Jett's personal juice. :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:37 PM (L2ZTs)

128 Ha. I should put black clothes on.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:37 PM (em09h)

129 Did you mean to say *Remington* "Staynless"? This was Remington commercial

Doesn't it say Winchester on the box?

I'm confused now.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:37 PM (yQpMk)

130 Howdy, Horde and fellow followers of the gub thread! Late again. And this visit will likely be just a drive by, tho I hope to stop in again later. Much tasking for this coming week. L8tR!

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (Iw46i)

131 Moron Robbie, Blackheart Rum sounds like Joan Jett's personal juice. :-)
Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs)

**

I was honestly hoping there was a connection, although I didn't bother checking.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (em09h)

132 I had some old Lake City 30-M2 a WWII vet gave me. Manufactured 1943. It shot like it was made yesterday from my 1903A3. But it was also stored properly and in very good shape. Visual inspection can help assess the round, but it's no guarantee.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (XKgKh)

133 Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (Iw46i)
----
Howdy amigo!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (MVjcR)

134 Kyle Rittenhouse is going to do time for defending himself and probably get the fvck sued out of him to boot. No concealed carry for me until this Biden crew gets out. Time to get small for awhile.

Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (+ya+t)

135 nobody understood what the ghm in the b&t ghm was for.

Grashüpfermäuse?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (yQpMk)

136 Great advice. Just got CCW Safe a couple days ago. Glad to see others like it.

Posted by: Eternity Matters at August 01, 2021 06:40 PM (MTm8X)

137 Moron Robbie, I looked it up and apparently there is no connection, which is probably a good thing as I've read Joan is a libtard.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:41 PM (L2ZTs)

138 nobody understood what the ghm in the b&t ghm was for.

Grashüpfermäuse?
Posted by: G




indeed!

and how effing cool is that

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 06:41 PM (mOAwy)

139 Some of those gun safes are big enough to move into.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 06:41 PM (L2ZTs)

140 The only thing that keeps me from lmao for the own goal in the side bar is we tax payers are probably footing the medical bills.

*spits*

Posted by: Infidel at August 01, 2021 06:41 PM (VDqwV)

141 and how effing cool is that

It's always amusing how the Germans just string words together rather than inventing a new word, or just stealing a word from another language like English does.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:42 PM (yQpMk)

142 Kraken
Not only a rum but a hockey team named in your honor.
Of course, it's in Seattle so you may want to not associate with them.
Posted by: Winston, GOPe, not one dime, not one vote at August 01, 2021 06:28 PM (FtJ1S)


They only drafted defensepersons because scoring is an act of misogynistic patriarchy.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 01, 2021 06:45 PM (axyOa)

143 RI Red, pretty sure standard M2 ball 45ACP ammo was 230g FMJ, like this stuff. Years back, also at the range, a guy gifted me a box of WWII arsenal ammo (either Twin Cities or Denver), 45ACP, still in the box. FMJ.

Diogenes - actually, this guy said his father was a surgeon who entered service late (1944), Army, and was assigned, of all things, to San Diego - a huge Navy/Marine town, of course. Other than an air defense gunnery school at the present site of the Torrey Pines golf course, don't think there was any Army presence here. He never left CONUS, and actually mostly worked in civilian hospitals.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:45 PM (OTzUX)

144 Gun safes would be a good GT thread topic. I want to get a bigger one, but good ones are mucho dinaro. And even expensive ones only protect against amateur thieves. I'm thinking of just welding up a thick steel box.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:45 PM (yQpMk)

145 As a seasoned lurker, I often hit the click bait after the tip jar for shits and giggles. So pathetic.

Posted by: Infidel at August 01, 2021 06:46 PM (VDqwV)

146 Mass shooting in Queens NYC.
A preliminary report shows two males approached eastbound on the sidewalk on the north side of 37th Avenue from 97th Street while brandishing firearms. "The shooters advanced toward the crowd, firing numerous shots before jumping back on two scooters driven by two other males and fleeing the scene."

Emphasis added. Is an Ewok moonlighting?

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at August 01, 2021 06:46 PM (u82oZ)

147 Remember your tap, roll, rack drills for hang fire. Squibs are sometimes worse if you don't realize what's happened and you put another down the pipe. I have a close friend who still has scars on his hands and face from a squib. SA when your shooting is very important. If you hear a click or something doesn't discharge, stop and assess.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 01, 2021 06:46 PM (XKgKh)

148 Kyle Rittenhouse is going to do time for defending
himself and probably get the fvck sued out of him to boot. No concealed
carry for me until this Biden crew gets out. Time to get small for
awhile.


Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (+ya+t)

---
Rittenhouse is young and that youth carries with it the virtue of having zero assets. Sue him all you want, he's a kid who owns nothing.

They key factor in the current climate is the local jurisdiction's posture on self-defense, which varies widely.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 06:47 PM (llXky)

149 146 Gun safes would be a good GT thread topic. I want to get a bigger one, but good ones are mucho dinaro. And even expensive ones only protect against amateur thieves. I'm thinking of just welding up a thick steel box.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:45 PM (yQpMk)
-------
We did a couple of threads on them a year or so ago.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:47 PM (MVjcR)

150 Yikes, no, it's me that's confusulated (there's a first!). Of course it's Winchester on the box.

Trying to think of why/how Remington was on my brain for this.

So whig's comment lines up correctly with the labeling.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:48 PM (OTzUX)

151 It's always amusing how the Germans just string
words together rather than inventing a new word, or just stealing a word
from another language like English does.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:42 PM (yQpMk)

---
One of their games is to see who can come up with the longest, most absurd compound word.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 06:48 PM (llXky)

152 We did a couple of threads on them a year or so ago.
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:47 PM (MVjcR)


Thanks, I'll google for them. If only we had a functioning archive system in pixyware.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:48 PM (yQpMk)

153 More on what to tell law enforcement: thanks to Scalia, (!), you should avoid saying "I'm taking the Fifth, or "It is my right not to incriminate myself ". Courts have evolved to allow prosecutors to use such statements to imply that only guilty person would stay silent.

So, if LEO appears without your request, and begins asking questions, "just to clear things up", your response is to firmly state: "I want a lawyer" as many times as necessary -- and then STFU

Posted by: JM in Florida at August 01, 2021 06:49 PM (v1wAI)

154
went to the range with my son & daughter today; big fun was had by all

They've both been playing the Red Dead Redemption video game, so the Heritage Rough Rider got the most play on the pistol range. Exhausted my supply of 22WMR, so we swapped out the cylinder and ran a siht tonne of .22LR through it as well.

Small victory for me: they both shot well with my 20" "optics" AR; I had been struggling to get it dialed in; today's shooting proved it out. It's not quite "perfect" but it's real close and seems to be holding zero

Posted by: AltonJackson (DUIap) at August 01, 2021 06:49 PM (DUIap)

155 Gun safes would be a good GT thread topic. I want to get a bigger one, but good ones are mucho dinaro. And even expensive ones only protect against amateur thieves.

Just MHO again, but seems to me that a $1000 Cannon and a $3500 Liberty will both stop a smash-and-grab amateur and both not stop a determined professional. The latter looks much nicer of course. I'll likely be adding one of the former soon.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 06:50 PM (nfrXX)

156 Have shot piles of Soviet and Soviet-bloc surplus 54R, never a dud or problem.

Only exception, some 182g yellow-tip "heavy ball" (this was the spec for Soviet sniper ammo, known in Russian - not kidding - as "sniperskiye" - a few years back you still saw spam cans of it, so labeled, for sale). Given to me by my former lead range officer. Pretty sure had seen some high heat storage.

Click. Half-second. Bang. After three of those, it all went in the dud can (not a large amount involved).

Speaking of which, what's up with that - the click/pause/bang? I understand duds. I understand misfires due to deteriorated propellant. This one I don't understand - is it a version of the bad propellant issue?

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:51 PM (OTzUX)

157 Gun safes would be a good GT thread topic. I want to get a bigger one, but good ones are mucho dinaro. And even expensive ones only protect against amateur thieves. I'm thinking of just welding up a thick steel box.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:45 PM (yQpMk)
-------
We did a couple of threads on them a year or so ago.
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:47 PM (MVjcR)
-----------------

Yeah, I did some checking on gun safes, and, it turns out, if thieves know you're going to be gone for a while, they'll break in, and take a grinder to your safe and cut it open.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:51 PM (2SdPm)

158 It's always amusing how the Germans just string
words together rather than inventing a new word, or just stealing a word
from another language like English does.
That's why English has a million words and everybody else is in the 150,000- 450,000 range.

Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:51 PM (iBg56)

159 "I plan to cooperate fully. AFTER I speak with my attorney."

Period. Full stop.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 06:06 PM (OCTRt)

**

I like this approach btw.

I still think I'd call 911 to request an ambulance for me and my attacker that I had to stop attacking me, because gosh I sure hope he's okay and it definitely wasn't my intent to do anything beyond stop the attack.

(don't say that, of course, but let your attorney point it out)

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (em09h)

160 Yeah, it almost looks like concealment is a better option than a gun safe.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (yQpMk)

161 Kyle Rittenhouse is going to do time for defending
himself and probably get the fvck sued out of him to boot. No concealed
carry for me until this Biden crew gets out. Time to get small for
awhile.


Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 06:39 PM (+ya+t)

They were trying to KILL HIM. At least he is alive to have his day in court.

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (oHd/0)

162 Yeah, I did some checking on gun safes, and, it turns out, if thieves know you're going to be gone for a while, they'll break in, and take a grinder to your safe and cut it open.

**

Wrap a chain around it and drag it out of your house, crashing through any and everything on its way.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (em09h)

163 First rule of buying a safe. If a gun safe says it holds 10 rifles it really hold 6.

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 06:53 PM (2DOZq)

164 a year or so ago.
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:47 PM (MVjcR)


And you expect us to remember things that happened waaaaay back then? Sheesh. I'll bet you can even remember what you had for breakfast. :p

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:53 PM (IVYWX)

165 Wrap a chain around it and drag it out of your house, crashing through any and everything on its way.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (em09h)
------------

Forgot about that one. Yeah.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 06:53 PM (2SdPm)

166 121 WRA headstamp (Winchester Repeating Arms) of the 45 ACP in the picture shown above is Winchester/Olin by that point. The powder company was Western Powder Co.

Remington of that era might have Peters or Remington. Their original non corrosive primer was called Kleenbore. Think the German company, still around, RWS licensed the non corrosive primer technology to Remington in the 20's.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:54 PM (pO7gM)

167 Rhomboid,
Sounds a lot like stuff my folks told me. Mom was shipped home after Pearl Harbor and spent the next couple years in Groton before moving back to Long Beach. She said that by the end of the war everywhere you went there were uniforms of every kind.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 01, 2021 06:54 PM (axyOa)

168 Yeah, it almost looks like concealment is a better option than a gun safe.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (yQpMk)


I will opt for both (when I can afford a safe).

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (IVYWX)

169 It takes a grinder to get into a $150 walmart gun cabinet, just like a $10,000 safe.

Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (iBg56)

170 86 Did the .mil even do copper clad .45 then? I thought it was all LRN.

IIRC, all GI ammo was FMJ until just a couple of years ago. At least the .45 ammo issued to me thirty years ago was. .45 ACP in the WWII era was almost entirely FMJ. Variants included blanks, tracer (for signaling), dummy (for training), and shot (hunting game for aircrew survival). Reference is US Military Automatic Pistols, 1920-1945, by Edward Scott Meadows.

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (7je7d)

171 Do those US arsenal production spam cans of 30-06 "hiss" due to vacuum seal being broken, the way the Soviet 54R spam cans do?

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (OTzUX)

172 qdpsteve @ 83; Peanut butter-flavored whiskey and banana-flavored ("infused") Kentucky bourbon?

Jesus, no wonder you can't fry decent hamburgers!

Posted by: butch at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (cHvOo)

173 First rule of buying a safe. If a gun safe says it holds 10 rifles it really hold 6.
Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 06:53 PM (2DOZq)

**

2nd rule: If it says "fire rated to XX minutes" and you paid less than $10K for it, it is mostly going to ruin everything inside when the drywall fireproofing material cooks off in the heat.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:56 PM (em09h)

174 I looked up serial numbers on the Ruger site and the new to me P95 is a first year production pistol (1996] and my stainless is 2000 production.

Posted by: blaster (mbFEM) at August 01, 2021 06:56 PM (mbFEM)

175 Shut up, Dunce.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) (yQpMk) at August 01, 2021 06:57 PM (yQpMk)

176 Wish I had gun compartments in my canoe. 

I lost them all in the Kaw (Kansas River). Likely beneath 5 feet of sediment and topsoil by now. Sad.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at August 01, 2021 06:58 PM (u82oZ)

177 whig I remember seeing Kleenbore on old ammo boxes in recent years.

Oh - if I've missed it, sorry - what is "Full Patch" in this case?

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (OTzUX)

178 Ignore the trolls please.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (MVjcR)

179 86 Did the .mil even do copper clad .45 then? I thought it was all LRN.

The Hague conventions at the beginning of the twentieth century more or less eventually put an end to use of lead ammo--ammo was not supposed to fragment into pieces by design. Accordingly, the Brits had to change their .38-200 aka .38 S&W (not Special) which used a heavy lead bullet to a new round in the 30's because of it.

Thus, either steel or copper (some used gilding metal) jacketed ammo became the std. for militaries across the world.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (pO7gM)

180 Guy in my Sunday School class asked me this morning what kind of handgun to buy his wife. I told him never to buy his wife a handgun nor allow a salesman to sell his wife a handgun. Instead let her buy what she wants after handling and firing a couple dozen.
Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 06:10 PM


* blinzelt die Augen *

Posted by: Gaston at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (a3Q+t)

181 179 full patch is full metal jacket.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (pO7gM)

182 I dislike this timeline where just saying things makes them true.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (em09h)

183 @175. To quote the image from the article head.

"Everything that guy just said is bullshit."

Posted by: Eisenhorn at August 01, 2021 07:00 PM (F2An5)

184 FWIW, I have always considered Kurt a regular.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:00 PM (em09h)

185 butch, I don't fry with whiskey :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 07:00 PM (L2ZTs)

186 Make sure you bolt your safe down with lags. If you're not going to be home, get an internet camera with a motion alarm.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 01, 2021 07:01 PM (XKgKh)

187 Ignore the trolls please.
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 06:59 PM (MVjcR)


When you sock Ace, it seems it should invoke some sort of retaliatory strike by Pixy - maybe light their computer on fire?

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:01 PM (IVYWX)

188 Have shot piles of Soviet and Soviet-bloc surplus 54R, never a dud or problem.



I have two spam cans of Russian .223 and one can of .45 acp for extreme shtf scenario. I believe Wolf brand.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:01 PM (OCTRt)

189 It takes a grinder to get into a $150 walmart gun cabinet, just like a $10,000 safe.
Posted by: ck at August 01, 2021 06:55 PM (iBg56)

This is why booby traps should be legal inside one's own property.

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:01 PM (2DOZq)

190 Ed L, thanks for the info. I don't recall ever seeing WWII ammo that was anything other than FMJ, including here the specialty types like tracer and armor-piercing (the differences there being inside the jacket, or at the rear of the projectile).

And of course due to Hague Convention and logistical/cost efficiency as well as I suppose operational considerations, FMJ has as Ed L stated been the standard military ammo for a very long time. I think some wandering into expanding designs began in recent years.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:02 PM (OTzUX)

191 Schieß dem Fenster

Posted by: Hans Gruber at August 01, 2021 07:02 PM (yQpMk)

192 Sorry about that weasel.

Some serious fedposting going on with the troll that copied me.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (2SdPm)

193 I have two spam cans of Russian .223 and one can of .45 acp for extreme shtf scenario. I believe Wolf brand.

**

(fistbump)

It's very liberating once you no longer have to worry about longevity and firing pins and the like.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (em09h)

194 Created Equal, by Clarence Thomas is on newsmax at 9 mdt tonight.

Posted by: Infidel at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (VDqwV)

195 ..Wrap a chain around it and drag it out of your house, crashing through any and everything on its way. Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (em09h)

That would be a Big Fail, here. See, my RSC (Residential Security Container)

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (QzJWU)

196 Make sure you bolt your safe down with lags. If you're not going to be home, get an internet camera with a motion alarm.
Posted by: Marcus T


That automatically and instantaneously uploads to the cloud. That way, even if they take the camera, you still have video.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (OCTRt)

197 I bought a Vortex Diamondback 4-16x44 scope and LaRue LT104 mount for my Remington 700 today.

Posted by: Eisenhorn at August 01, 2021 07:04 PM (F2An5)

198 Rhomboid, OTM or open tip match during the Great War on Terror was designated as legal for US troops to use as the open tip was designed for aerodynamics, not for expansion. This happened sometime during the GWB era.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:04 PM (pO7gM)

199 whig, again with the answer, thanks. I clearly do not have the historical firearms knowledge you do, and I'd never seen/heard the term "full patch". Seems like an odd term for what we call FMJ, but there we are.

And I hadn't seen your comment above when I mentioned Hague and FMJ becoming military standard.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:04 PM (OTzUX)

200 I believe a fake gun safe filled with gender-reveal Tannerite is not kosher. Especially in a shed you do not like, near the driveway, and with the house outside the blast radius.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at August 01, 2021 07:04 PM (u82oZ)

201 sweet: the gub thread now cones with an inert round...

Posted by: redc1c4 *OTUS Zhou Bai-Din Cheated & we all know it. at August 01, 2021 07:05 PM (BHU1I)

202 I still say the most amazing thing Kyle did during that whole event - beyond the obvious, of course, and keeping his cool the entire time he was retreating - was clear the jam in between Tony Hawk and the One Armed Bandit.

That's the only reason the "medic" criminal is still alive today. You could tell it f*cked up Kyle's aim. A half-second difference and he got the shot off at his attacker's arm instead of chest.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:05 PM (em09h)

203 sweet: the gub thread now cones with an inert round...
Posted by: redc1c4 *OTUS Zhou Bai-Din Cheated & we all know it. at August 01, 2021 07:05 PM (BHU1I)



Yesss!

Posted by: Ed McMahon at August 01, 2021 07:06 PM (yQpMk)

204 Well, hell. Couple hundred typed words, gone.

Goes like this. My box sits atop a foundation piling which is driven 36 ft. into the ground. Then, steel struts and a steel collar are all bolted and welded, so as to unify the safe with that foundation member.

I'd like to see what's left of any truck that tried a chain snatch, here. lol


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 07:06 PM (QzJWU)

205 "That automatically and instantaneously uploads to the cloud. That way, even if they take the camera, you still have video.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:03 PM (OCTRt)"

Exactly. Or if hard wired, a device that is hidden and able to pull video clips.

A safe is meant to buy you time. The better the safe, the more time it buys you. But a cheap video system can be a force multiplier. Always remember that.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 01, 2021 07:06 PM (XKgKh)

206 The Kyle issue gives me pause.

He took a firearm, loaded it into his car and drove to a known danger zone looking for trouble.

He did have the right to defend himself, after being attacked.

But he willingly put himself in a bad situation.

Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (U2p+3)

207 Wrap a chain around it and drag it out of your
house, crashing through any and everything on its way. Posted by: Moron
Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in
smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 06:52 PM (em09h)




If they tried that with mine they would be ripping through two internal walls and a garage door. Some of my neighbors or our dogs might notice that happening.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (JUOKG)

208 No range report, but I do have a new acquisition. S&W 66-1 snubbie. I guess I'm collecting S&W 66s now, as I also have a 4 inch model. For the latter, I picked up a Bianchi shoulder rig at a flea market a couple of weeks ago.

Range report will likely be next week. I put down $100 on the snubbie and the seller told me to take it home, as we live about 5 min drive from one another and on the condition we go shooting together.

He displays only a fraction of his stuff for sale and I now have a standing invite to peruse his gun safe. He's got fine and rare pieces.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (8C7+r)

209 rickb223, you beat me to it, I was going to mention the spam-cans of 9mm, 223, etc available from Wolf (Russkis). Seems like a perfect SHTF deep reserve option for those that desire to stock such things. I assume they are vacuum-sealed, like the 54R surplus.

Most of the 54R I've shot was 70s/80s production, but I did have some 1945 - shot just fine (though it objected to being fired into a dirt berm on a range, and not at the Wehrmacht).

As many have noted - in general, so long as the ammo is stored properly (meaning moisture and heat, mostly), it should work for a very very long time, no problem.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (OTzUX)

210 Dropping back in, as I want to tout Andrew's Site and Platinum membership. I think it's worth it to be able to call an expert witness if necessary and there's also good info on his blog. Additionally, I've been to a seminar with Andrew and if you get a chance DO IT. Also, after comparing coverages and satisfaction levels of others, Giggles an I went with CCW Safe Ultimate. Covers the both of us both in VA and MT, at home and not. Some "fluff" like a coin, but nbd. I'll be back this is going easier than I thot this evening

McGyver, over

Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (Iw46i)

211 Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (8C7+r)
----
Nice!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (MVjcR)

212 Ammo is beginning to trickle onto the shelves.

Amusingly, there was a commercial bag of new 9mm brass available. $32.99/100. .40 Short & Weak seems to be the current bargain, at prices for White Box not too elevated from before.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 07:08 PM (a3Q+t)

213 I DID get to the range this week, with Lazy Messenger and the Nurse. Due to range density, didn't get to shoot next to the other two morons, but I can say that both of them can SHOOT TF out of stuff.
I had two gun malfunctions, one minor-ish and the other ended the session. First, took the Glock 36 out of my fanny pack and put 50 rounds through it. The first round...failure to extract. Extractor would not grab the spent case. Got it out via finger nail and the next 50 rounds fired fine, so no idea what happened there but not what I want to see in a defensive firearm.

Next I did some shooting with my CZ 82 in 9mm Makarov. Nurse and Lazy Messenger both shot the gun well. I was hitting a bit low. Seemed to me to have a 'combat hold' where the front sight dot covers the target. Not a fan.
I'm also not a fan of getting hit in the face with the firing pin. Yep, the firing pin stop failed and the firing pin shot out the back and smacked my lip. I swear to God, I have more trouble with CZ firing pin stops. It's critically failed on my CZ 75, on my CZ P97, on one CZ P-07. It's a serious fucking design flaw. I hear the Shadow 2 doesn't have a firing pin stop or retaining pin.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:09 PM (eeRB6)

214 He did have the right to defend himself, after being attacked.

But he willingly put himself in a bad situation.

**

Yeah, I feel for him because of how things worked out, and he and his family will pay for it for the rest of their lives one way or the other.

It's a shame that "was he breaking the law" doesn't matter in his case. And it doesn't. Not one bit. He's going to be buried under the jail for not breaking the law.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:09 PM (em09h)

215 On the 1941 surplus .45 ACP ammo, "full patch" is what they called "full metal jacket" back then. "Staynless Oilproof" refers to the primers and is why they are now duds. Most ammunition in 1941 used chlorate primers, which are corrosive and will rust or stain "stayn" the barrel unless cleaned thoroughly with a polar solvent. Remington was a pioneer in the use of non-corrosive primers, which they jingoistically called "staynless"; but the priming compound they came up with didn't have nearly the shelf-life of the standard chlorate primers nor the vast majority of modern non-corrosive primers. The "oilproof" part was the lacquer or some other paint-type sealant around the primers to keep gun lubricant from contaminating a primer on a chambered round and causing a dud. Unfortunately, time did that anyway.

Posted by: atlanticproducts at August 01, 2021 07:09 PM (75fSI)

216 Ammo is beginning to trickle onto the shelves.



Rifle prices are also back down. I guess everyone is stocked up.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM (yQpMk)

217 I am more than a little tempted to sell most of my CZs and buy a Shadow 2...but with my luck , the fucking firing in on it would smack me in the face too.

And people wonder why I stick with the XD9 or XD45....

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM (eeRB6)

218 My box sits atop a foundation piling which is driven 36 ft. into the ground. Then, steel struts and a steel collar are all bolted and welded, so as to unify the safe with that foundation member.

You go to that much trouble, you almost want 'em to try just because you'd hate to think you did all that work for nothing.

Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM (nfrXX)

219 Posted by: atlanticproducts at August 01, 2021 07:09 PM (75fSI)
-------
Great info. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM (MVjcR)

220 No range report, but I do have a new acquisition. S&W 66-1 snubbie. I guess I'm collecting S&W 66s now, as I also have a 4 inch model. For the latter, I picked up a Bianchi shoulder rig at a flea market a couple of weeks ago.


I would love to find a 66 4" stainless. Carried it when I worked for the prison system. They were workhorses. Nothing fancy. Not pretty.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:11 PM (OCTRt)

221 Graffunder is a SAFE. Some of the higher end Fort Knox-es, are SAFES.

Mine, and most all of yours, is a Residential Security Container. Quite a ways short of a SAFE, in terms of brute force resistance, grinder endurance, and fire protection. Graffunders start at about $7,500 or so, last time I looked? And yes, those UL tests are brutal, and for real.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 07:11 PM (QzJWU)

222 "You go to that much trouble, you almost want 'em to try just because you'd hate to think you did all that work for nothing.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM (nfrXX)"

Ok so if they broke in I would want to watch that with a large bowl of popcorn and a six pack. Maybe bbq a steak, and invite a few friends over because you have that much time.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 01, 2021 07:12 PM (XKgKh)

223 IMG, I hate you. 66 snubbie has been a kind of semi-grail gun for me for a while. Actually wanted a Model 19 snub, as I have the 4-inch 66 (favorite revolver). Have seen a few for sale (remember, here in CA I have to buy it from an individual, in-state, no Gun Joker for us), but ..... my longing was dimmed by the prices.

The 4-inch is wonderful, have used it in matches for years. Fortunately S&W included it in their Classic line, so they can be bought new (4.25" barrel, I think, for the Canadian market?).

For now I console myself with a King Cobra snub (featured in an early gun thread), a Magnum Carry, and a Model 60. But both the 19 and 66 snubs might well be added if I come across either ....

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:12 PM (OTzUX)

224 nurse, I replied to your email. But, I had to use my hotmail account.

Thanks!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 07:12 PM (2SdPm)

225 M-66s w/3" are quite special.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 07:13 PM (a3Q+t)

226 The major issues with old ammunition is that there are chemical additives to the powder that regulate the burn rate and the second prevents the powder from literally decomposing. Decomposition of ammo rates depend on the original powder form (such as ball, stick, flake), single base (nitrocellulose) versus double (nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin), and the temperature/humidity that it is stored, and in some cases the primers (mercuric, potassium chlorate, etc.)
Over time, the powder stabilizers break down and you get an acidic mess that if dumped smells acrid and appears rusty. Usually it will weaken the case walls via corrosion as well. Under the right conditions, the deteriorated powder can self combust. Tumbling old rounds to remove corrosion can cause stick and flake powders to crumble resulting in a changed burning rate that can either generate too much or too little pressure. The same thing can happen when the powder burn rate regulator chemical breaks down.
Mercuric primered ammo should be pitched as it deteriorates the case and will generally be a dud anyway. Oil and water are the enemies of primers and powder. Potassium chlorate primered ammo requires cleaning.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:13 PM (pO7gM)

227 Yep, the firing pin stop failed and the firing pin shot out the back and smacked my lip.

Is it actually breaking? It's grooved in and I would not have expected the firing pin spring to have that much pressure so I guess the hammer is cracking it then?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:13 PM (yQpMk)

228 Rifle prices are also back down. I guess everyone is stocked up.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:10 PM

I scored a case of 600 rounds of JHP 45 Colt for $1.00 a round last month. Haven't seen that price or any JHP 45 Colt ammo in over 2 years. Everything I could get was the lead bullet Cowboy Action mouse fart stuff.

Posted by: Mister Scott (formerly GWS) at August 01, 2021 07:13 PM (JUOKG)

229 Mail sent to you Weasel.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 07:14 PM (7bRMQ)

230 Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 07:14 PM (7bRMQ)
---
I'll look for it. Thx

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:15 PM (MVjcR)

231 Is it actually breaking? It's grooved in and I would not have expected the firing pin spring to have that much pressure so I guess the hammer is cracking it then?
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:13 PM (yQpMk)

It's intact and I don't see any cracks...but I don't see what was holding it in the back of the slide either, unless the spring pressure around the firing pin was strong enough to hold it there.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:15 PM (eeRB6)

232 If Cabela's/BPS has anything new you're thinking about, a big sale will starting 17 Aug.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 07:16 PM (a3Q+t)

233 199 rhomboid, no problem.

FMJ was called full patch because some ammo was half jacketed (still fairly common for some handgun bullets) and some had their lead base exposed. Think it referred to the old full patching of bullets to keep them from lead fouling but not sure about the origin of the term.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:17 PM (pO7gM)

234 It's intact and I don't see any cracks...but I don't see what was holding it in the back of the slide either, unless the spring pressure around the firing pin was strong enough to hold it there.


The end of the firing pin goes through the hole in the plate and locks it in. Is the pin too short and going so far in inertially that it is passing right out of the plate? I figured it would hit the primer and stop before going that far.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:17 PM (yQpMk)

235 Starting to find powder online. Way to expensive with shiping. Might be getting to stores some day.

Posted by: Javems at August 01, 2021 07:18 PM (8SSHh)

236 Mark AE, huh? Have never heard of a CZ problem with firing pin stops (or anything else really). My surplus CZ-83 gets shot a lot, no issues. Very very naturally pointing handgun, but yes the elevation situation is odd, but I've found that with several smaller guns, including all my snub-nose revolvers. CZ-75 still probably my next acquisition.

Also a huge XD fan, toying with the idea of an XD45, since I reload 45. People used to have them for sale around here for very cheap (XDs work great but I notice they have fairly low resale prices), sometimes unused/barely used. Never pulled the trigger. Now I'll wait til panic pricing has subsided before considering anything but a sweetheart deal.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:18 PM (OTzUX)

237 He took a firearm, loaded it into his car and drove to a known danger zone looking for trouble.
-----------
I thought he was helping friends defend a business from the riots.

Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 07:19 PM (+ya+t)

238 I'm going to go get my 82 and gentle push the firing pin in, with a cartridge in the chamber, and see if it stops or goes all the way through.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:19 PM (yQpMk)

239 Thank you Weasel. Good and timely topics!

I will ask a local attorney to recommend a lawyer for my pragmatic group. Because the issue may be governmental over-reach, not just a self-defense issue.

Manhattan is now a woke city in Kansas. Still not Berkley on the Kaw (Lawrence, Kansas) but still.

Head on a swivel, folks.

Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at August 01, 2021 07:20 PM (u82oZ)

240 Posted by: NaCly Dog (u82oZ) at August 01, 2021 07:20 PM (u82oZ)
----
Happy to do it, salty.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:21 PM (MVjcR)

241 Starting to find powder online. Way to expensive with shiping. Might be getting to stores some day.
Posted by: Javems


I'm in a Facebook handloading group and they are squealing about sky high prices. $400+ for an 8lb jug.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:21 PM (OCTRt)

242 MAE, do you dry fire your CZ's often? Some firearms do not like dryfiring without a snap cap.

For general information to those who may or may not know it, snap caps are especially needed if you are dryfiring old firearms as the firing pin may have to be fabricated to replace a damaged one.
Most rimfire handguns and rifles should not be dry fired without a snap cap either. It can cause the chamber edge to burr causing problems with loading and extraction and it can cause the firing pin to shatter on the edge of the chamber.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (pO7gM)

243 Mark AE, huh? Have never heard of a CZ problem with firing pin stops (or anything else really). My surplus CZ-83 gets shot a lot, no issues. ...
Also a huge XD fan, toying with the idea of an XD45, ...
Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:18 PM (OTzUX)

I may have bad luck. I also had apparently the world's only PPQ and PPQ 45 lemons that had frequent hard lockups with cheap (read: affordable) ammo. But the firing pin retaining pin/plate has failed on several CZs now.

I have seen the XD9 for under $400, even now. Odd but I'd take it if I didn't have 2. Luck to you on getting an XD45, I'm very happy with them.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (eeRB6)

244 whig - now that you mention that, in my brief web searching re "full patch", I did come across a reference to it linking it to the days when patches were part of the loading process (muzzle-loaders).

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (OTzUX)

245 atlanticproducts - thanks for the input, lurk less/comment more.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (OTzUX)

246 But he willingly put himself in a bad situation.
Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:07 PM (U2p+3)


Which is the reason for every "duty to retreat" law ever enacted. Sorry, but he was going to help protect property and lives. I don't think that should EVER be considered a bad thing. (And to hell with society that says otherwise.)

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (IVYWX)

247 Rittenhouse was in MN to help protect businesses and subsequently to help those innocents caught in the middle of the riots.

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (2DOZq)

248 Did you say, "yutes"?

Posted by: Judge Chamberlain Haller at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (VxC1e)

249 245 atlanticproducts - thanks for the input, lurk less/comment more.
Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (OTzUX)
----
Agreed!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (MVjcR)

250 MAE, do you dry fire your CZ's often? Some firearms do not like dryfiring without a snap cap.

For general information to those who may or may not know it, snap caps are especially needed if you are dryfiring old firearms as the firing pin may have to be fabricated to replace a damaged one.
Most rimfire handguns and rifles should not be dry fired without a snap cap either. It can cause the chamber edge to burr causing problems with loading and extraction and it can cause the firing pin to shatter on the edge of the chamber.
Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:22 PM (pO7gM)

I don't dry fire CZ's for just that reason. EXCEPT, one of my CZ P-07 has a CZ Custom firing pin retaining pin (after the first broke) that is solid and is rated safe for dry fire.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (eeRB6)

251
Lots of folks noted last week (and week before, I think) that giving a basic narration of events to the cops so they can preserve witnesses and evidence was important.
Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (IVYWX)


If there are witnesses they're going to talk anyway. Let them talk. For yourself, attorney first, then talk and let the police sort the witnesses out.

Say NOTHING to the police until the attorney shows. Remember: Police can lie. They'll make every effort to make you lie.

Posted by: Justsayin' at August 01, 2021 07:24 PM (Fs5vw)

252 236 rhomboid, the XD 45 is one of the most accurate service size 45's that I have shot. Mine has the optional safety which coincides with the Browning High Power original safety in both size and location so easy to manipulate. The XDM is reportedly even better. I like the Ruger P90 which is a tank and also very accurate but the grip is just too big for comfortable manipulation.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:24 PM (pO7gM)

253 Full patch means that the ammo has successfully passed its probationary period and is now a full member of the club.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (kTF2Z)

254 Howdy Weasel, howdy Horde

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (tkB2V)

255 Howdy, cc!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (MVjcR)

256 Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (IVYWX)

247 Rittenhouse was in MN to help protect businesses and subsequently to help those innocents caught in the middle of the riots.
Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (2DOZq)

That must be correct since it was said twice .

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (2DOZq)

257 Gaston @ 180- Blink the eyes? You ever handgun shop with a woman? It's like shoes, sorta. Unless the woman is Mrs. E. She cares of practical use of 'iron on target'. She never asks 'How does this one look?' Or 'Does this go with my outfit?'

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (0OP+5)

258 Occasionally check via ammoseek, just as a break from whatever else I'm reading, and have seen a few common powders pop up/disappear quickly. Prices: 2-3 times "normal".

However, have read from gun-nuts in far flung regions, via gun forums, of people finding powder in local gun stores, more expensive than pre-2020, but not like the enormous premiums one sees online.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:26 PM (OTzUX)

259 He took a firearm, loaded it into his car and drove to a known danger zone looking for trouble.

He did have the right to defend himself, after being attacked.

But he willingly put himself in a bad situation.
Posted by: n


he did exactly what he was supposed to do, if you believe in the Constitutin

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 07:26 PM (mOAwy)

260 Which is the reason for every "duty to retreat" law
ever enacted. Sorry, but he was going to help protect property and
lives. I don't think that should EVER be considered a bad thing. (And to
hell with society that says otherwise.)



Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:23 PM (IVYWX)

---
There's a difference between the way things ought to be and the way they are.

It's always useful to know the difference before acting.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 07:26 PM (llXky)

261 247 Rittenhouse was in MN to help protect businesses and subsequently to help those innocents caught in the middle of the riots.
Posted by: J



WI

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 07:27 PM (mOAwy)

262 25 kraken, it's not the caliber that counts. It's the pistol.

You need a Glock. Glock lobster.

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 07:27 PM (tkB2V)

263 At a minimum, these plans offer the opportunity to speak with an attorney immediately, which is clearly something you need to do.

----------

Excuse me, I think a modicum of gratitude would not be out of line here.

Posted by: Vinny Gambini, Esq. at August 01, 2021 07:27 PM (VxC1e)

264 WI
Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 07:27 PM (mOAwy

My bad.

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:28 PM (2DOZq)

265 I did not go to the range, but I replaced the batteries in the display case that holds my 1911 and Swiss Lugar. (Pretty weak statement there, McGyver) Hi! Weasel and otras. I think I'll go experience a MonteCristo. The cigar, not the sammich

McGyver, over

Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 07:28 PM (Iw46i)

266 I'm not saying Kyle broke the law in any way. Nor did I say he was wrong for doing what he did. He was brave. But he walked into trouble.

Call me a coward. I won't be a hero to anyone, save my boys.

Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (U2p+3)

267 he did exactly what he was supposed to do, if you believe in the Constitutin

Posted by: confederatefifth at August 01, 2021 07:26 PM (mOAwy)

The Constitution? That old rag? Why it was written by old white guys who didn't know the difference between f and s for sucks fake.....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (7bRMQ)

268 I don't kick myself for past "coulda woulda shoulda's", generally, but perhaps I should have jumped on one of the (barely) used XD9 and XD45 deals I've seen around here over the past few years.

And whig - XD45 has an optional thumb safety?? Thought the design was identical to the 9 - grip safety, and kinda safety-ish trigger thinggie.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (OTzUX)

269 My Cousin Vinny is hands down the finest depiction of the lot of the trial lawyer ever brought to the silver screen.

FIGHT ME

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (VxC1e)

270 Reminder:


The police are NOT your friends.

They do NOT care about justice.

They ONLY care about closing the case with the least work.

Posted by: butch at August 01, 2021 07:30 PM (cHvOo)

271 whig, I always dry fire w/ snap caps. Using snap caps (especially w/ revolvers and shotguns) also allows me to practice loading, unloading, and reloading. Some revolver grips don't play nice w/ some speed loaders. And for those who have Benelli M4's, practicing "ghost loading" an extra round on the lifter w/ a round in chamber is always recommended using snap caps before you try live ammo.

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 07:30 PM (7je7d)

272 You ever handgun shop with a woman? It's like shoes,
sorta. Unless the woman is Mrs. E. She cares of practical use of 'iron
on target'. She never asks 'How does this one look?' Or 'Does this go
with my outfit?'


Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM (0OP+5)

---
There is a certain degree of brand loyalty as well. In our family, Colt = Good, SW = bad. Glock = tacky, never. SIG or HK = nice, need second look. Beretta is also prized because they have a nice clothing line to match their wares (crafty Italians know the game!).

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 07:30 PM (llXky)

273 Lots of folks noted last week (and week before, I think) that giving a basic narration of events to the cops so they can preserve witnesses and evidence was important.
Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 06:14 PM (IVYWX)

***

Spoilers: Cops are human and are REALLY bad at that kind of stuff. Very much not CSI Whatever. I suspect a lot of cases are lost procedurally because of poor evidence collection, securing the scene, etc.

Granted you'd need a competent attorney or at least one who knew how to go after that side of the case, but still.

I don't know if it's better or worse to try to "help" them.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:31 PM (em09h)

274 And range time with MAE and Lazy Messenger is always fun. I always learn something. And they are such great mentors.

I worked on raise and shoot. Shot 50 rounds through my PPQ. Was working on going faster. I only loaded 5 rounds at a time. Learned that I'm more accurate with both eyes open and trusting my grip and squeeze than I am trying to focus super hard with one eye. Probably something you guys figured out when you were ten. But it was an eye opening experience for me.

Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:33 PM (U2p+3)

275 223 IMG, I hate you....
Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:12 PM (OTzUX)


If it makes you feel any better, it's got an atrocious rubber grip.

Shopping tonight for walnut. Heh.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 07:33 PM (8C7+r)

276 Call me a coward. I won't be a hero to anyone, save my boys.

**

That's where I've been moved over the last few years. If you want to come with me as I get my family out of harm's way, fine, but I probably won't actively try to end the situation unless it's unavoidable, especially if there's any type of minority anything involved. Sucks, but it's true.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:34 PM (em09h)

277
FIGHT ME
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (VxC1e)
----------------

Yeah, if I disagreed, I'd not only have to fight you, but AtC would come after me.

No thanks.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 07:34 PM (2SdPm)

278 I don't know if it's better or worse to try to "help" them.
Posted by: Moron Robbie


Fuck the cops. Not your job. Keep your mouth shut until you talk to a competent lawyer. And then only say what he allows you to say.

This can't be stressed enough.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (OCTRt)

279 Rhomboid, the original XD 45 design had the option to have a manual safety or not but still also has the grip safety. The one with the safety was less popular I think and probably why I got a deal on it brand new years and years ago. Don't think the later XDM models offered that option.

I was used to a Browning High Power so the safety was no big deal for me.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (pO7gM)

280 I've pushed snap caps (dummy rounds) here forever, so will reprise my spiel now, since Ed L and others have pointed out how useful they can be.

I recommend to every single new shooter at the range, and anyone "gunning up" for the first time, to make snap caps part of their original set-up, as important as magazines for a semi-auto.

Function testing (I very strongly reco new gunnies not to chamber live rounds anywhere but the firing line). Practice. And more practice.

Since I reload, I make my own. Prior to that, I got excellent ones from Dummybullet.com - unfortunately that one-man business is suspended, for the moment, not sure he'll be back. He makes excellent inert rounds, advantage being (as with my own) they are actual brass/bullet rounds, obviously minus live primer and powder, so they perfectly mimic normal rounds, for function checks and reloading practice.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (OTzUX)

281 Yeah, just checked and the firing pin should be holding the retaining plate in place. I racked a round, dropped the mag, put the CZ on safe and gently pushed the pin with a plastic general disassembly tool and it didn't even go flush with the plate before the live primer stopped it. Even with dimpling the primer it should barely go below flush I should think.

If the plate didn't break, and the groove in the slide is good, I think your pin has to be too short.

But I'm just guessing really.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (yQpMk)

282 That violin case photo is a thing of beauty.

Posted by: Draki at August 01, 2021 07:36 PM (Nt0u1)

283 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (VxC1e)


LOL. I agree!

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (IVYWX)

284 282 That violin case photo is a thing of beauty.
Posted by: Draki at August 01, 2021 07:36 PM (Nt0u1)
----
Isn't that cool?

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (MVjcR)

285 A.H. Lloyd, ask Eromero about the Star Pistola he shot last weekend.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (WQsA3)

286 Gaston @ 180- Blink the eyes?
Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 07:25 PM

Ich blinzle mit den Augen, da du Perfection nicht empfiehlst

Posted by: Gaston at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (a3Q+t)

287 Much as I love the Thompson, I'd trade it in a heartbeat for a Colt Monitor.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (2SdPm)

288 Fuck the cops. Not your job. Keep your mouth shut until you talk to a competent lawyer. And then only say what he allows you to say.

This can't be stressed enough.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (OCTRt)

**

+1, although I can certainly see where some people would feel like it could help their situation.

I'm not even 100% sure I'd tell them I'd done the shooting, just that I needed an ambulance and my lawyer.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (em09h)

Posted by: Gaston at August 01, 2021 07:38 PM (a3Q+t)

290 Ed L. I work on and restore old firearms so I either use snap caps or in some cases, clearly marked dummy ammo to test actions, feeding, and the like. Usually dummy ammo can be converted to snap caps by either putting hot glue in the primer pocket or cutting a rubber pencil erase to fit. Brownells used to sell quite a bit of dummy ammo and it is relatively easy to make at home. Good use for aluminum or steel cased ammo as well.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:38 PM (pO7gM)

291 BING A-Zoom Snap Caps. Metal.
Feels like a loaded round.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:39 PM (OCTRt)

292 Buddy just bought a Colt SA .45 from 1971, in the box, supposedly never fired for $2600. The thing is beautiful, I'd have paid more.

Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 07:39 PM (+ya+t)

293 I'm not saying Kyle broke the law in any way. Nor
did I say he was wrong for doing what he did. He was brave. But he
walked into trouble.


Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:29 PM (U2p+3)

---
I concur. There's the old joke about never volunteering for stuff in the military, but that applies triply in this case. Going across a state line to defend someone else's stuff in someone else's town because their police aren't up to the job...er no.

Because the fact is, police vary greatly depending on where you are, and if the cops suck where you're at...well, what have you done to change that?

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 07:40 PM (llXky)

294 287 Cue that great gun shop scene in "The Highwaymen."

.45 ACP had trouble with car bodies. .30-06 did not.

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 07:40 PM (tkB2V)

295 IMG, congrats on the M66 snub. As I said, I can console myself for the moment with the two Colt snubbies. My M66 came with the original wood grips, but it wears some Pachmayrs (also came with it), which are very nice.

If'n you want to see purty wood grips on a snub, dig up one of the first couple of gun threads, Weasel graciously featured some gun porn of that Colt King Cobra (original series, not the revived line now for sale).

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:40 PM (OTzUX)

296 A.H. Lloyd, ask Eromero about the Star Pistola he shot last weekend.

Posted by: Ben Had at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (WQsA3)

---
Was it in 9mm Largo? Because *real* Spanish pistols are in 9mm Largo.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 07:41 PM (llXky)

297 291 AZoom got bought by Lyman Products and unfortunately discontinued some of their lesser selling products. But, they are clearly marked and are clearly unable to fire. This makes them also useful if you like to shop for used firearms as you can test the action.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:41 PM (pO7gM)

298 If not family, you're on your own.

Not sticking my neck out for anyone not kin, meaning hubby, kids, and grandkids.

Posted by: SMH at August 01, 2021 07:41 PM (+tqLU)

299 Sorry if this is off topic, apologies to

Posted by: ErikInTexas at August 01, 2021 07:43 PM (UdmP5)

300 Not sticking my neck out for anyone not kin, meaning hubby, kids, and grandkids.

Posted by: SMH at August 01, 2021 07:41 PM (+tqLU)
---
I stick my neck out for no one. I'm the only cause I'm interested in now.

Posted by: Rick Blaine at August 01, 2021 07:43 PM (llXky)

301 Ready
Shoot
Aim

Posted by: Big JiLm at August 01, 2021 07:44 PM (DUa+Q)

302 Re the attorney stuff:

Part of the problem is, you never know what you're gonna get, if you're hauled into interrogation.

In some cities? With some cops? Just say "attorney" and they leave you alone and hand you a phone.

Others? You could end up locked in a small windowless room for days, left to crap your pants and starve, and/or beaten severely.

Would be nice if we as citizens could know what we're getting.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 07:44 PM (L2ZTs)

303 Sorry if this is off topic, apologies to
Posted by: ErikInTexas at August 01, 2021 07:43 PM (UdmP5)



Premature posting. It happens to all guys, or so my wife says.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 07:45 PM (yQpMk)

304 I see the Kyle Rittenhouse situation as analogous to the scenario of an attractive girl in a tight dress walking alone into a neighborhood known for crime and gang activity.

If she ends up raped or dead, the assailant is no less guilty, but voluntarily putting yourself in a risky situation just because you have the theoretical right to do it is bound not to end well.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:45 PM (VxC1e)

305 I'm not even 100% sure I'd tell them I'd done the shooting, just that I needed an ambulance and my lawyer.
Posted by: Moron Robbie

It is known.

I've told this story before - I made a mistake when I spoke with the investigative detectives on site when my late wife died. The initial responding beat cop warned me not to, but I was too shook up to hear/listen. Long story short - they were looking at me as the bad guy when it was clear her injuries were self-inflicted. The coroner finally dragged me out of their clutches.

There are plenty of great cops. That is not the point here though.

Posted by: Tonypete at August 01, 2021 07:45 PM (mD/uy)

306 thanks grump

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, shotguns solve problems at August 01, 2021 07:46 PM (eeRB6)

307 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:45 PM (VxC1e)

Why was she there? Going to help her sick grandma?

Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:46 PM (2DOZq)

308 I've told this story before - I made a mistake when I spoke with the investigative detectives on site when my late wife died. The initial responding beat cop warned me not to, but I was too shook up to hear/listen. Long story short - they were looking at me as the bad guy when it was clear her injuries were self-inflicted. The coroner finally dragged me out of their clutches.

There are plenty of great cops. That is not the point here though.
Posted by: Tonypete at August 01, 2021 07:45 PM (mD/uy)
---------

I remember you mentioning that. So yeah, good point.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 07:47 PM (2SdPm)

309 Hi A bit late but wanted to follow up on Blaster's comments on Elite Shooting Sports. I was really impressed with the facility. The place that Iris and I took our HQL course was small, dark and dingy and had maybe 5 lanes. This place is big, ,high ceilings, comfortable waiting area but even on Sunday afternoon did not have to wait long. It seems to be very well run and was glad to see so many women working there. Sometimes these places can be intimidating for novice women shooters. There were families there. Just a nice vibe. They even have a small cafe. Plenty of parking.Took Iris and I almost 45 minutes to get there but it was an easy drive.Prices are reasonable and I think all three of us, Hrothgar, Iris and I are pretty sure we will join.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 01, 2021 07:48 PM (Y+l9t)

310 whig when I make my own dummy rounds I just put a spent primer back in the primer pocket, instead of glue.

The Dummybullet guy drills nice holes in the case, so it's obvious they are inert rounds. I did that with a few calibers, but it gets difficult on smaller ones. All of my dummies get navy blue nail polish on the bullets and the bases, just to make it even easier to know.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:48 PM (OTzUX)

311 i've told this story before - I made a mistake when I spoke with the investigative detectives on site when my late wife died. The initial responding beat cop warned me not to, but I was too shook up to hear/listen. Long story short - they were looking at me as the bad guy when it was clear her injuries were self-inflicted. The coroner finally dragged me out of their clutches.
*

Sorry. You're not the first person I've heard say something similar.

I wasn't joking when I wrote that. I'm 90% sure it would be a mistake to say you'd shot the person. It might work out fine if the dice roll in your favor, but there's always the snake eyes.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:50 PM (em09h)

312 ..I'm not even 100% sure I'd tell them I'd done the shooting, just that I needed an ambulance and my lawyer. Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:37 PM (em09h)

Consider this? After you've called 911 and given 'em request for ambo & cops, and your own "good guy" physical description, hang up and call your lawyer BEFORE the cops can show up. 'Cause soon as they do, your cel is getting taken, right along with your gun.

Just tell your lawyer "need you here, been in a shooting, Jurisdiction "X", is responding." He'll either make the scene or show up at the P.D. as mentioned.

Either way, you gotta send the Lawyer Bat Signal before your phone is taken from you. Find a way to do it.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 07:50 PM (QzJWU)

313 For all viewers here, it is important to decide BEFORE any event occurs whether you would come to the aid of others or not.

Under common law, there is no duty to come to the aid of others and thus some people do not and will not. Others will. Depending on the circumstances and personal values, it might be a right call or not.

What is important is to decide these boundaries between using deadly force or not well before it actually happens. Firearms are not magic talismans that end conflicts automatically and if you are not informed about the laws of your area, can regally screw you to the wall if you err.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:50 PM (pO7gM)

314 Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 07:44 PM (L2ZTs)

----------

In theory a clear statement that you do not want to answer questions until you speak to an attorney must end all questioning. They can't putt you in the hole until you break down and are willing to talk again.

In reality, the FBI used to sort of follow the rules. We don't live in that theoretical world anymore.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:50 PM (VxC1e)

315 Cicero, exactamundo.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 07:51 PM (L2ZTs)

316 Either way, you gotta send the Lawyer Bat Signal before your phone is taken from you. Find a way to do it.

**

This. Memorize the number, have it on your person, in your phone, however you have to do it. But do it and do it quick.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:51 PM (em09h)

317 Fuck the cops. Not your job.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 01, 2021 07:35 PM (OCTRt)


I will say two things:
Yes, it IS your job, if you want to live as a free citizen. If you abdicate to the authorities, then you've stopped being a citizen and are a subject. Be involved and be pro-active. (And yes, that is an ideal - but one you should protecting or reaching for, imo.)

Second, similar to the first in some ways, is to know your cops. You don't have to know individuals, but at least know how your local department views self-defense, guns, and the citizenry in general. Know if you've got a local Soros-funded DA or a wanna-be.

Tying this in to the choice of a CCW insurance provider, do any of them have that sort of info, and provide it to their clients (*before* an incident)? Could/would they provide you with an "In your area I would handle it this way" before you need that 24-hour line?

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 07:52 PM (IVYWX)

318 I render aid to people who have had a medical emergency. That's a no brained for me.

But I'm not going to pick up a firearm, leave my home and try to rescue anyone else.

Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 07:53 PM (U2p+3)

319 Why was she there? Going to help her sick grandma?
Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 07:46 PM (2DOZq)

----------

Heh. Word around the enchanted forest is that Grandma came to a bad end too.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:53 PM (VxC1e)

320 Rhomboid, I've always thought that snap caps or dummy rounds would be very useful for the Army to train soldiers on loading or unloading weapons. Yet, I never saw dummy rounds or snap caps in use in my entire military career. I always thought ROTC should have had a few on hand; as a cadet, my weapons handling skills were pretty bad. We needed the practice.

Whig, I'm not a reloader, otherwise I'd do the same thing myself. Agree w/ rickb223 that A-ZOOM are the best out there. Tried a few cheaper ones and they fell apart pretty quickly after repeated use.

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 07:54 PM (7je7d)

321 Gaston @ 286- So ok I get the Perfection. Mrs. E does in fact do her own shopping and her carry is Kimber Micro9. Her target guns are Glock 17s or 34s. I bought those and set them up for her. She thinks they are perfect and anybody here who has seen her shoot agrees. But to me looks mean nothing, a handgun is a tool.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 07:55 PM (0OP+5)

322 Ed L, there may well be a perfectly good reason the military doesn't have dummy rounds for practice - but I can't think of one.

Of course there are dummy rounds for the larger calibers (think, artillery), but I'm not sure they are used for training or practice.

Posted by: rhomboid (OTzUX) at August 01, 2021 07:55 PM (OTzUX)

323 All of us think that anyone that does not gets the vaccine should not be treeted in a horspital. Every new death from this virusus is Trump,s fault and should be she puts in jail for crimes against humernaty.

Posted by: Mary Cloginstien from Brattleboro, VT at August 01, 2021 07:55 PM (zMaGC)

324 I also suggest a small rechargeable USB recorder that's in your pocket and turned on and recording anytime you leave the house and are armed.

$20 well spent.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:55 PM (em09h)

325 310 rhomboid, I am not a fan of putting back a used primer pocket because it might not cushion the blow from a hit like a pencil eraser or hot glue will but I also use dummy rounds/snapcaps to evaluate used firearms so I don't want anything that resembles a live round.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:56 PM (pO7gM)

326 Let's try that again. Anyway, off topic. Apologies. But, in an earlier thread, an astute poster, perhaps a Costa Rican, suggested what might happen if illegal immigrants were forcibly vaccinated? Let's take that a bit further and suppose that uniformed military types showed up in the heart of one of these deep blue cities and started forcibly vaccinated people, especially people of color? What if every military age male illegally crossing the border was immediately drafted into the military (like your daughters will soon be) to enforce the Green New Deal in those same blue cities? Mandatory curtailment of utilities, restricted use of air conditioning, being told what you can and drive around in, travel restrictions, perpetual surveillance? Isn't that pretty much exactly what all these leftist fucks pretend to be afraid of?

Posted by: ErikInTexas at August 01, 2021 07:56 PM (UdmP5)

327 Would be nice if we as citizens could know what we're getting.

Posted by: qdpsteve (L2ZTs) at August 01, 2021 07:44 PM (L2ZTs)

---
A few years ago a guy in Detroit was stopped in an intersection and a guy waved a gun at him and told him to get out of his car. The driver had a CPL, drew and killed his attacker, who as it turned out was using a toy gun painted black.

The cops arrived, took the shooter's weapon, consulted with witnesses and looked at the physical evidence. They concluded the shooting was justified, returned the handgun to his owner, and sent him on his way.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 07:56 PM (llXky)

328 How much should I expect to pay to keep an attorney on permanent retainer?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at August 01, 2021 07:56 PM (63Dwl)

329 Thanks for the thread, Weasel.


Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 07:58 PM (7bRMQ)

330 Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 01, 2021 07:58 PM (7bRMQ)
----
Happy to do it. Apologies for being a little distracted tonight policing the thread.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:59 PM (MVjcR)

331 323 rhomboid and Ed L. Some militaries use dummy rounds, the Swedes and Swiss for example, some do not. My personal guess is that the US military really does not stress (aside from the USMC and perhaps Spec Ops) small arms training.

Both the Swedes and Swiss have existed for centuries in a bad neighborhood for wars and thus stress personal marksmanship as a result.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:59 PM (pO7gM)

332 322 Is everyone else staying up late to watch NZ weightlifter Lola Hubbard win the "shut up you haters, a birthing person with a penis is still a birthing person" Gold

----------

Well, I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman but talked like a man
Oh my Lola
La-la-la-la Lola
La-la-la-la Lola

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 07:59 PM (VxC1e)

333 How much should I expect to pay to keep an attorney on permanent retainer?

**

I'm sure it depends on the individual and his practice, but I've spoken to a couple who would do it for a few hundred. Essentially "call me if you have a problem". The key for me is that it's very easy to ring up a $100K debt before even getting close to court, and that's not counting bail or any other expenses.

For our situation the $500-$700 insurance made more sense over attempting to self-insure.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 08:01 PM (em09h)

334 Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 07:50 PM (pO7gM)

Well put.

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 08:01 PM (IVYWX)

335 Posted by: Just a side note at August 01, 2021 06:20 PM (zEIsv)

Just saw your response in prevoius thread. Thank-you.

Posted by: tbodie at August 01, 2021 08:02 PM (HXx+D)

336 309 Hi A bit late but wanted to follow up on Blaster's comments on Elite Shooting Sports. I was really impressed with the facility. The place that Iris and I took our HQL course was small, dark and dingy and had maybe 5 lanes. This place is big, ,high ceilings, comfortable waiting area but even on Sunday afternoon did not have to wait long. It seems to be very well run and was glad to see so many women working there. Sometimes these places can be intimidating for novice women shooters. There were families there. Just a nice vibe. They even have a small cafe. Plenty of parking.Took Iris and I almost 45 minutes to get there but it was an easy drive.Prices are reasonable and I think all three of us, Hrothgar, Iris and I are pretty sure we will join.
Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 01, 2021 07:48 PM (Y+l9t)


So glad you three found a great place!

Posted by: Ladyl at August 01, 2021 08:02 PM (+4oV5)

337 A.H. Lloyd @ 296- It was in the original box from maybe 30= years ago and had 5 jhp rounds my eyes could not read. I had a box of 9mm Luger fmj 115 gr Winchester white box and each of us guys fired 5 rounds of that. I then held my eyes shut and fired the old rounds, even hit the target a few times. It's a 9mm Luger gun. You can still get them at places like JampersandG Sales for $3 maybe 4 depending of condition. Hers looks new.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 08:04 PM (0OP+5)

338 Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 07:55 PM (em09h)


I mentioned body cams and the like a couple of weeks ago. I concur that if you carry, you should have a recorder about you in some fashion, even if only audio.

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 08:04 PM (IVYWX)

339 How much should I expect to pay to keep an attorney on permanent retainer?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at August 01, 2021 07:56 PM (63Dwl)


I would guess hundreds of dollars a month, in general. The insurance is a lot less because it's very specific and the cost is spread out.

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 08:07 PM (IVYWX)

340 Law of Self Defense also offers some info on finding and choosing self-defense "insurance".
READ THE FINE PRINT, most "insurance" is going to pay you later after you've been found not -guilty". But

1. You're gonna need the funds right away, not after you've re-mortgaged the house, cashed out your 401k, and borrowed every dime you can grab.
2. If you're not found not-guilty, no money. You might take a lesser plea deal on the advise of your counsel to avoid years in the slammer, and then Poof, no reimbursement, and now the house, 401k and you got Vinnie banging on your door looking for the cash he loaned ya. Law of Self Defense has a class on this that helps you find some coverage and what to look for, along with the other overall and state specific self defense law classes.
Overall, LoSD is WORTH EVERY DIME! As is tag line says "Carry A Gun, So You're Hard To Kill. Know The Law So You're Hard To Convict." Going to prison for 20-30 years and going broke leaves your loved ones in a spot nearly as bad as if you had died in a shootout.

Posted by: Janir at August 01, 2021 08:08 PM (7FTeO)

341 I'm checking out early. A poster on a previous thread today got me thinking about Cormac McCarthy books, and I'm going to start them over and re-read everything. It's been long enough (and I'm old enough) that I don't remember the stories, only that I liked them. So I'm starting tonight.

Thanks as always, Weasel.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 08:08 PM (em09h)

342
Posted by: Moron Robbie - (emo9H) firemen don't wear disposable blue masks to breathe in smoke-filled areas at August 01, 2021 08:08 PM (em09h)
-----
My pleasure. G'night.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:09 PM (MVjcR)

343 Posted by: Janir at August 01, 2021 08:08 PM (7FTeO)
----
Howdy and welcome!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:10 PM (MVjcR)

344 Thank you for all your hard work, Weasel. I look forward to your post every Sunday.

Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (U2p+3)

345 Happy to do it. Apologies for being a little distracted tonight policing the thread.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 07:59 PM (MVjcR)

---
In the remote fastness of Weasel Acres, a calm face surveys the site traffic for AoSHQ. It is Sunday night. The mood is sedate, but the same eyes that are capable of deadly accuracy on the range now scour six monitors in search of trolls, tomfoolery and bloody-mindedness. A soft chime sounds.

"Geez," he sighs. "How many socks are you going to spawn, Jonah?" With practiced ease, the farm-calloused hands move to delete the lame spam comments created by National Review's former enfant terrible. With the same calmness he uses to rip the bullseye out of a target half a mile away, he also directs a dozen bogus orders of Ewok plush toys to the miscreant's home, sent overnight delivery, COD.

"See ya next week, dweeb."

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (llXky)

346 Well, my sword finally arrived. I take some photos and send in a little paragraph for Mr. Weasel to maybe share with all y'all.

Posted by: BifBewalski @ (VcFUs) - at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (VcFUs)

347 Posted by: nurse ratched at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (U2p+3)
---
Happy to do it, nurse. Thanks for being here!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:12 PM (MVjcR)

348 Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (llXky)
---
Ha!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:13 PM (MVjcR)

349 Posted by: BifBewalski @ (VcFUs) - at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (VcFUs)
----
Sure! Send it in!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:13 PM (MVjcR)

350 Move to a state with castle doctrine laws.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 01, 2021 08:15 PM (4fSQf)

351 the same eyes that are capable of deadly accuracy on the range now scour six monitors in search of trolls, tomfoolery and bloody-mindedness.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM


Mein Gott, ist Narrheit nicht erlaubt? Das ist schlimmer als der Samstagmorgen-Kaffee-Thread!

Posted by: Gaston at August 01, 2021 08:18 PM (a3Q+t)

352 Whig, I'm afraid you're right. It's just not a priority.
Considering how many staff officers I personally knew who shot clearing barrels or things they weren't supposed to on my deployments to Baghdad and Kabul, more training was definitely needed. I guess knowing how to set up the daily/weekly Power Point slide decks was a more important priority. Considering that a negligent discharge was/is a pretty good way to wreck one's career (letter of reprimand signed by a general), one would think that people would take a few minutes to learn and practice unloading and clearing their weapons before loading up w/ live ammo.

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 08:18 PM (7je7d)

353 345 Well played, AH Lloyd.

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 08:18 PM (tkB2V)

354 Thanks, Weasel. Looking forward to October and seeing you good people.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 08:20 PM (0OP+5)

355 Mein Gott, ist Narrheit nicht erlaubt? Das ist schlimmer als der Samstagmorgen-Kaffee-Thread!





Posted by: Gaston at August 01, 2021 08:18 PM (a3Q+t)

---
Wenn mine Gorssmutter vier Rede hatte, wurde sie eine Omnibus sein!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:20 PM (llXky)

356 "See ya next week, dweeb."
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:11 PM (llXky)
------------

Heh.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:20 PM (2SdPm)

357 Thanks, Weasel. Looking forward to October and seeing you good people.
Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 08:20 PM (0OP+5)
----
My pleasure, amigo. Really looking forward to getting back down there!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:21 PM (MVjcR)

358 Grossmutter. Scheisse!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:21 PM (llXky)

359 If you like summaries of state laws with a bit of actual interpretation of what those statutes and court decisions mean, Mitch Vilos and his son have compiled laws and included interpretations of what those laws mean in the book, Self Defense Laws of All 50 states, 2nd ed. If you prefer the outline format, then the latest by Andrew Branca, Law of Self Defense and/or his website subscription will help.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:21 PM (pO7gM)

360 Can anyone translate Dutch?

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 01, 2021 08:21 PM (4fSQf)

361 Well, shit... Maybe Chris "The Rhodes Scholar" Greene should have been letting his wife Tonieh "make all the decisions best for him" BEFORE he knocked that statue down and brained himself. DERRRRRRRP!!

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at August 01, 2021 08:22 PM (JN3xP)

362 By the way, the club I shot the above mentioned match at is having an aspirin shoot this month.

50 yards, rim fire, 100 yards, center fire.

From what I'm told in order to win at 50 yards, one has to go 10 for 10.

At 100 yards, generally, 7 of 10.

I'm hitting the range to set the zero on my 22 Mag.

I may also enter the center fire with my .243.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:23 PM (2SdPm)

363 Weasel, thank you for hosting and cleaning up the aisles tonight. Whig and rhomboid, thanks for the conversation. See everyone next week.

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (7je7d)

364 For those wondering, which I suspect is almost all of you, Gaston is speaking Austrian.

Posted by: Barack H. Obama at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (FC1Oo)

365 g'night everyone, & thanks, Weasel !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez (uQuhA) at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (uQuhA)

366 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:23 PM (2SdPm)
---
Good luck! Take a few pictures and send in a report!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (MVjcR)

367 352 Ed L.
John Farnam of Defense Training International ( a noted firearms trainer and former Army officer) shreds the military regarding their small arms training. His Quips (highly amusing and recommended) are available for free on his website and resemble Col. Cooper (another one not enamored of the military training in small arms).

From my own experience and my father's, firearms training was regarded as something to be checked off rather than for excellence.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:25 PM (pO7gM)

368 Good luck! Take a few pictures and send in a report!
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (MVjcR)
----------

Thanks, will do!

I plan to take a bottle of aspirin to the range when I sight in. Might as well practice a bit!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:25 PM (2SdPm)

369 Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (7je7d)
-----
You're welcome! Thanks for tuning in!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:26 PM (MVjcR)

370 Posted by: sock_rat_eez (uQuhA) at August 01, 2021 08:24 PM (uQuhA)
---
Nite sock!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:26 PM (MVjcR)

371 Ed L. have a good night and rest of the week.

Weasel, thanks for hosting this week, sorry about the trolls. They have been appearing everywhere in the comment sections lately across the web.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:27 PM (pO7gM)

372 I plan to take a bottle of aspirin to the range when I sight in. Might as well practice a bit!
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:25 PM (2SdPm)

Aim small, miss small.


Something Mel Gibson said.

Posted by: tbodie at August 01, 2021 08:28 PM (HXx+D)

373
OK. 9:30ish thank you time.

I say it every week but I appreciate you being here every week, and I really mean it!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:28 PM (MVjcR)

374 Move to a state with castle doctrine laws.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 01, 2021 08:15 PM (4fSQf)

And Stand Your Ground statutes.

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 08:29 PM (IVYWX)

375 I say it every week but I appreciate you being here every week, and I really mean it!
Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:28 PM (MVjcR)
----------

And thank you for all the effort you put forth to keep things going here, much appreciated!

Later and have a good one!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:29 PM (2SdPm)

376 Thanks Weasel, always appreciated!

Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 08:30 PM (+ya+t)

377 Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:27 PM (pO7gM)
----
Sorry for the distraction. I don't mind deleting the comments as soon as they post them, and eventually they get tired and go away. Appreciate your being a regular.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:31 PM (MVjcR)

378 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (2SdPm) at August 01, 2021 08:29 PM (2SdPm)
----
Happy to do it!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:31 PM (MVjcR)

379 Posted by: dartist (+ya+t) at August 01, 2021 08:30 PM (+ya+t)
---
My pleasure!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:32 PM (MVjcR)

380 Ha!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:13 PM (MVjcR)

---
I try. I mean, I am an Ace-Endorsed Author after all. I may have some material for you in the near term. Expect me when you see me.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at August 01, 2021 08:32 PM (llXky)

381 Florida and ironically Washington State have very good self defense laws. Washington State gives an opportunity to recoup losses, Florida requires the state have the burden of proof including to disprove reasonableness in the individual using force. There is also an immunity pre trial hearing that allows the defendant to be protected against civil judgment if their use of force is deemed reasonable in a criminal context. GA has a similar law but different burden of proof.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:32 PM (pO7gM)

382 Weasel, I think you've been hammering me. Check proton.

Posted by: RI Red - (rDsem) at August 01, 2021 08:33 PM (Cexhq)

383 Considering how many staff officers I personally knew who shot clearing barrels

Posted by: Ed L at August 01, 2021 08:18 PM (7je7d)


Ed, it wasn't staff officers shooting the clearing barrels in Tuzla when I was there, it was the privates. The day I witnessed THREE of them do it in quick enough succession that the Division Sergeant Major was screaming at the first two adjacent to said clearing barrel when the third one pulled the trigger.... HOO BOY.
And, in Bosnia, it was an automatic Article 15.

(And it wasn't necessarily because the privates were dumb, but a great many were horribly tired, and the M-16 has that awful step of "pull the trigger" ....)

Posted by: GWB at August 01, 2021 08:34 PM (IVYWX)

384 Posted by: RI Red - (rDsem) at August 01, 2021 08:33 PM (Cexhq)
---
I saw a comment disappear. Wasn't me!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:34 PM (MVjcR)

385 Our troll is such a wee man. A child among adults.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 08:34 PM (yQpMk)

386 Gotta Go. Giggles is on the phone. Thanx! All and specially Weasel for the content. L8tR all!

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 08:35 PM (Iw46i)

387 Posted by: McGyver at August 01, 2021 08:35 PM (Iw46i)
----
Adios, brother!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:36 PM (MVjcR)

388 I guess another glorious Gub Thread is in the books. Thank you, weasel, and thanks to the many knowledgeable Morons. I learn something every week.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 08:36 PM (yQpMk)

389 Thanks Weasel!Good times!

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 01, 2021 08:37 PM (Y+l9t)

390 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at August 01, 2021 08:36 PM (yQpMk)
-----
Happy to do it, g'rump!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:37 PM (MVjcR)

391 "359 If you like summaries of state laws with a bit of actual interpretation of what those statutes and court decisions mean, Mitch Vilos and his son have compiled laws and included interpretations of what those laws mean in the book, Self Defense Laws of All 50 states, 2nd ed."

FYI, I'm a fan of the Vilos book, have a copy in my office, but folks may find it a bit dated at this point. The 2nd edition, which I believe is their most recent, was published back in 2013.

Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 08:38 PM (HMC8i)

392 Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 01, 2021 08:37 PM (Y+l9t)
-----
Happy to have you here, Sharon!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:38 PM (MVjcR)

393 "374 Move to a state with castle doctrine laws."

EVERY state has some version of Castle Doctrine law in effect, if Castle Doctrine is being properly defined.

Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 08:39 PM (HMC8i)

394 Okay...Jim mentioned it way up at the top, but...my 29-year-old eyes are having a tough time seeing the front sight AND the black circle on the target.

So my first thought is to get a tritium front sight, or maybe something equivalent but a different technology.

Any old fucks still floating around? I know it's late and past our bedtimes, but maybe....


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 08:41 PM (Q9lwr)

395 394, CBD, is it a rifle or a handgun.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:42 PM (pO7gM)

396 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 08:41 PM (Q9lwr)
-----
Sorry. If you figure it out, please let me know!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:42 PM (MVjcR)

397 @Rhomboid

Thanks! I just ordered some rosewood looking grips from Thailand. Exposed backstrap, but that doesn't bother me. Prolly a couple weeks until they get here. I hate the laminated crap out there.

If I don't like them, I'll drop the bucks for a Nill Griffe. I have a set on my Redhawk and love them. Spendy, though. Getting something more along the lines of a round-butt to square butt conversion profile.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 08:42 PM (8C7+r)

398 ..Move to a state with castle doctrine laws."

EVERY state has some version of Castle Doctrine law in effect, if Castle Doctrine is being properly defined.
Posted by: Law of Self Defense LLC at August 01, 2021 08:39 PM (HMC8i)


Move to a State with a Bounty on the futhermuckingbunofasitches!

/i keed, i keeed!


Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at August 01, 2021 08:43 PM (QzJWU)

399 CBD, consider a red dot? Holosun makes some good ones, one with an 8 MOA circle and a 1 MOA dot in the middle. Small (micro pistol) size, you can replace the battery w/o removing it, and you don't have to focus.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (a3Q+t)

400 My usual practice is to make sure that the front sight is prominent and let the target be fuzzy. Otherwise, a red dot sight is probably indicated. A few people have trouble with fire sights (fiber optic), red dots, and tritium "blooming" if you have cataracts. The old std. gold bead also still works if that is the case or something like rear ghost sights (circular arrangement).

There is also express sights for handguns with a tritium/orange ball front sight that is centered on the rear sight's V inflection point.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (pO7gM)

401 394 Okay...Jim mentioned it way up at the top, but...my 29-year-old eyes are having a tough time seeing the front sight AND the black circle on the target.

So my first thought is to get a tritium front sight, or maybe something equivalent but a different technology.

Any old fucks still floating around? I know it's late and past our bedtimes, but maybe....


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 08:41 PM (Q9lwr)


That's not age. It's physics. Peep sights with small apertures do help you see a distant target sharper while focusing on the front sight.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 08:46 PM (8C7+r)

402 399 Hey Weasel, I read Guntest Magazine instead. I have dropped most of my magazine subscriptions because I got tired of reading the same article by different authors.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:47 PM (pO7gM)

403 My usual practice is to make sure that the front sight is prominent and let the target be fuzzy.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (pO7gM)
------
This.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:48 PM (MVjcR)

404 400 My usual practice is to make sure that the front sight is prominent and let the target be fuzzy...
Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (pO7gM)


This is correct basic marksmanship.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 08:48 PM (8C7+r)

405 If you're TxMoMeing, can hook you up with a chance to try a couple different ones.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 08:48 PM (a3Q+t)

406 Why are the pages of my latest G&A mag stuck together?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 08:49 PM (a3Q+t)

407 404 400 My usual practice is to make sure that the front sight is prominent and let the target be fuzzy...
Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (pO7gM)

This is correct basic marksmanship.
Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at August 01, 2021 08:48 PM (8C7+r)
-------
Go to the WeaselAcres YouTube channel and find the Model 64 video I made. That was the method I used in the vid.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:51 PM (MVjcR)

408 As far as rifles are concerned Iron Mike is correct. Aperture sights are some of the best of iron sights.

Red Dots do fine in the shorter distances if you don't have cataracts but at longer you need a scope of some sort.

It all depends on accuracy versus speed, you want to acquire the target with more speed, open sights are excellent but your accuracy will be pedestrian. Use an ap sight, then your speed will decrease but your accuracy will generally be better. AR and some of the older military sights had coarse ap battle sights and then finer apertures for more precise work.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:51 PM (pO7gM)

409 Thanks Weasel for all your work with the Gun thread. Also, all you gun nuts for sharing your knowledge.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at August 01, 2021 08:51 PM (l5R6/)

410 Posted by: Cannibal Bob at August 01, 2021 08:51 PM (l5R6/)
----
Howdy brother!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:52 PM (MVjcR)

411 Trying on a different device.
But only to say goodnight.
I am reloading my f*cks.

Did anyone see my query regarding Form 1s?

Posted by: RI Red at August 01, 2021 08:52 PM (JOV35)

412 403 My usual practice is to make sure that the front sight is prominent and let the target be fuzzy.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (pO7gM)

---------

Or you could just fire crazily in the general direction of the noise and hope for the best.

YMMV

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at August 01, 2021 08:53 PM (VxC1e)

413 GWB @ 383- I saw a SgMAJ shoot the barrel at Camp Arifjan.

Posted by: Eromero at August 01, 2021 08:55 PM (0OP+5)

414 Howdy brother!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:52 PM (MVjcR)

Howdy back my friend! Rarely miss this thread although I've stopped flapping my gums in any post comments. Hope all is well with you and family.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at August 01, 2021 08:55 PM (l5R6/)

415 I learned in the olden days using iron sights and even now just use scopes with minimal powers because I found it easy to get lost in the scope.

Some of my favorite bolt action sights are the No. 4 Enfield 'Singer' sights and the Springfield 03A3 sights.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:55 PM (pO7gM)

416 Posted by: Cannibal Bob at August 01, 2021 08:55 PM (l5R6/)
-----
All good here! Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:56 PM (MVjcR)

417 Well, my Jovian 35 seems to work.
F the trolls.

Posted by: RI Red at August 01, 2021 08:56 PM (JOV35)

418 CBD, is it a rifle or a handgun.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:42 PM (pO7gM)

Handgun. Walther PPQ .45ACP...my current favorite (I'm sorry Mr. Browning!).

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 08:56 PM (Q9lwr)

419 412 Cicero,
Heck ammo and reloading components cost too much to do mag dumps. If you just want to make noise, fireworks are much cheaper.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 08:57 PM (pO7gM)

420 Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 01, 2021 08:45 PM (a3Q+t)

I have a red dot on another pistol...my HK VP9. I like it a lot, but I have a tough time acquiring a sight picture quickly.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 01, 2021 08:58 PM (Q9lwr)

421 Thank you, Weasel. Have a great week, everybody.

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 08:59 PM (tkB2V)

422 Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 08:59 PM (tkB2V)
---
My pleasure cc! Thanks for checking in!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 08:59 PM (MVjcR)

423 One can only imagine how stupid it would be to provoke Miculek to the point of shooting at one.

Posted by: irongrampa at August 01, 2021 08:59 PM (KATBx)

424 ONT is up everyone! Thank you for spending part of your weekend here, enjoy the rest of your evening and have a great week. Hope to see you next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 09:00 PM (MVjcR)

425 418 CBD, if you want speed, then the express type sights are good and include a tritium ball. If you want precision but not night sights, then consider fiber optic sights which is what a bunch of competition shooters used to use before red dots.

There are some hybrid fiber optic/tritium sight sets out there as well or even just the front sight. I am partial to these for my daytime/range firearms.

Posted by: whig at August 01, 2021 09:00 PM (pO7gM)

426 Since when does firearm have a "pointy" end?

I mean, I know what you mean but these days, I parse everything with a jaundiced eye.

Not quite as classic as the two gats in their cases but I took and made two separate foam (solid) pieces and put the shapes of the rifles I was going to put in a two rifle carrying case (soft sided) for travel. Works out pretty well. I've got places for the scope on on rifle and for the laser sight on the other will lots of slots for different sized magazines.

Lot better than juggling two cases and still having to back to the car to get more stuff. This case also has some pockets on the outside that I didn't even fill. I guess I'll put targets and stuff in them and some more ammo.

Posted by: jakee308 at August 01, 2021 09:02 PM (wb4G5)

427 422 I saw the opportunity to drag the B-52s into the gun thread. Someone had to say Glock Lobster to kraken at #25!

Posted by: callsign claymore at August 01, 2021 09:09 PM (tkB2V)

428 Programming Note: I'm closing the comments on the thread early.

Posted by: Weasel at August 01, 2021 09:10 PM (MVjcR)

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