Saturday Evening Movie Thread 06-12-2021 [Moviegique]

Final Account (2020)

Don't be a Nazi. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times! No matter how beautiful, charmingly quirky, sexy, or kinky, they make it look, no matter how much you hate Jews, or commies, or the French, or gays, or fairies, no matter how much power, prestige, privilege, wealth, art, gigs, animals or memes they offer you: Don't. Be. A. Nazi.

Seriously, I think I've averaged five or six documentary or narrative Holocaust-based films a year for the last two decades, and just once I'd like to see some pro-Nazi propaganda! Wait, I did see Triumph of the Will and—well, I wasn't impressed. I did not see (not-see?) the appeal, but I suppose one wouldn't at this late date. Bringing me to Final Account, which among the fairly standard "I see nothing!" and "Everybody Knew!/Nobody Knew!" tropes we've come to expect from the folks around at the time, contains an actual unrepentant paleo-Nazi.

Not this guy. This guy repents. He's still regretting choices made 70 years ago. (Filmed in 2008 ).

I stress paleo-Nazi, because the neo-Nazis seem to be all anti-Zionists or at least "anti-Zionists". But back in the day, one popular solution for "the Jewish Problem" was, of course, giving them their own homeland. So our one Waffen SS guy who doesn't blame Hitler for the Holocaust, also didn't agree with Der Fuhrer's "opinion" that all the Jews should be murdered. He didn't say he was pro-Israel, and I fault the late Luke Holland for not asking him directly.

In Holland's defense, on the other hand, is the fact that he inserts himself very little. There's certainly some careful editing going on, but for the most part he lets the old Nazis chatter about what they knew, what they didn't know, what they did or didn't do or shouldn't have done without a voice-over to pronounce "Nazis Is Bad". The high point, besides letting the old Waffen SS guy speak his (still pro-Hitler) mind, is letting everyone contradict each other, and sometimes just letting them contradict themselves, while asking what their own culpability might be.

The low point is the Wansee conference (no, not that one, but taking place in the same building for obvious reasons) where modern German nationalists are put in front of a remorseful ex-Nazi who's basically saying, "Hey, we killed a bunch of people, therefore you should be happy about Albanian criminals walking your streets." I mean, this part is gross exploitation (of an old Nazi, no less) and doubtless engineered by the typical "Turn The First World Into A Feudal Fiefdom" crowd where the genuine grief of a guy who made some Very Bad Choices seventy years ago is being used to blackmail some guys whose thought crime may be only that they want to control their borders.

Those Hugo Boss uniforms were TIGHT, tho'.

Because, look: What do we hear about from these people who were sometimes literal children? Well, a bunch of progressives got into power, instituted eugenics, virtue signaled like crazy, demanded complete fealty to an intellectual and morally corrupt government, and—well, at one point, a woman defends her ignorance of Jews being interned by saying "we"—and it's almost always "we" and not "I" in these stories—had thought they were political prisoners as if that somehow made it more palatable. Another says something to the effect of, "You have no idea the amount of pressure that was brought to bear [to enforce compliance]."

This was recorded in 2008, though, so I'll cut him some slack. Because I think, now, we all do have a pretty damn good idea. This is an overlooked aspect to "Never again" which is simply that if you don't understand what happened in the past, you have no chance of preventing it in the future. (See Watchers of the Sky for a great example of a documentary that seeks to end a phenomenon it doesn't grasp in the least.) I think I understand it very well, and I find it challenging to judge these survivors: Responsibility has both a collective and an individual aspect to it, and societies such as the Nazis (and practically every modern government in the world, if we're being honest) are oriented around the principle of creating apathy in their citizenry so they can do whatever they want. Which means the only way we can really "Never again" is by refusing to accept the notion that we can't do anything, individually or in groups, to "change the status quo" or "fight the system" or whatever it takes to prevent a repeat.

This picture, rather than the cute-happy-Aryan-girl pictures, is the one that's singled out in the promos and yet I feel it invites you to speculate baselessly.

On the 'gique-doc scale:

Subject matter: It's well-trod ground, and I'd sure like to see the victims of Communism arrange a push like the Jews have to get those crimes as well known, but that doesn't detract from the value.

Presentation: Pretty standard. Interviews and assorted archival footage that looks semi-related.

Slant: Well, I guess you could say it's anti-Nazi. But as I mentioned, the best aspect of this is that it's not really slanted that way. I mean, if you were pro-Nazi (I think there's, like, six pro-Nazi people in the world not already in this documentary) you could go into this and not be especially moved.

I have no idea why it took Holland 12 years to edit this into a movie, except maybe his more profitable work (and his 2015 cancer diagnosis) interfered, though part of me wondered if it wasn't the rise of Trump (and nationalism world-wide) that spurred it on. As it (mostly) avoided contemporary issues, I was okay with it. It doesn't have the compelling aspect of Shoah or Last of the Unjust, or the niche appeal of The Art of the Steal, but it at least avoided the weird self-flagellation of Hitler's Children.

Answered the question "Are we the baddies?" with "Nooooo!"

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:56 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 hiya

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 06:57 PM (arJlL)

2 Popcorn time

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 06:57 PM (Cxk7w)

3 Evenin' Horde!

Posted by: No One of Consequence at June 12, 2021 06:59 PM (CAJOC)

4 Tap-Tap-Tap is this thing on ?

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:00 PM (arJlL)

5 Not a pro-Naxi movie but excellent : Jojo Rabbit

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:01 PM (oEn12)

6 Is he related to JoJo Dancer ?

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:01 PM (arJlL)

7 My link "charmingly quirky" links to my Jojo review, vmom. ;-)

Most of those links go to a review I've written in the past 15 years. And I always realize, when I'm trying to build a mental list of things (like ALL the Nazi/Holocaust films I've seen), how many movies I see that I =don't= review.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:02 PM (dhFCT)

8 Hiya vmom !

Apparently, only people from Pa. can comment here !

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:02 PM (arJlL)

9 "The Day the Earth Caught Fire" (1961) The Yanks H-bomb the south pole, the Russkies H-bomb Siberia, the Earth gets all pissy, and so the Limeys take it up the arse. Lovely Brit birds molt their feathers in the heat, including sweaty towel-tease Janet Munro. Dialog is so brisk that they ran out of words before they could write an ending. (Spoiler: the Antarcticans quickly surrender, but it takes four more nuke strikes to pacify the Siberians.)

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (qpX6U)

10 Responsibility has both a collective and an individual aspect to it, and
societies such as the Nazis (and practically every modern government in
the world, if we're being honest) are oriented around the principle of
creating apathy in their citizenry so they can do whatever they want.
Which is EXACTLY what Gina Carano said.

Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (v16oJ)

11 ||6 Is he related to JoJo Dancer ?
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:01 PM (arJlL)||

Leave it to the Kiwis to cut out the BLACK MAN from their Nazi Germany.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (dhFCT)

12 Last few days decided ( not in stone forever) my often stated top 10 war movies list.
1 Last of the Mohicans
2 Master and Commander
3 The Great Escape
4 A Bridge to Far
5 Black Hawk Down
6 Battleground
7 Paths of Glory
8 Longest Day
9� Stalag 17
10 Full Metal Jacket

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (Cxk7w)

13 moviegique - have you ever seen Conspiracy, an HBO film ?

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (arJlL)

14 5 Not a pro-Naxi movie but excellent : Jojo Rabbit

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:01 PM (oEn12)

Missed it when it first came out in 2019, saw it a month ago. What a refreshing change from the formulaic dreck Hollywood usually churns out.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:04 PM (nGb+J)

15 13 moviegique - have you ever seen Conspiracy, an HBO film ?
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (arJlL

That's the one about the Wahnsee conference?

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:05 PM (nGb+J)

16 moviegique - have you ever seen Conspiracy, an HBO film ?
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (arJlL

That's the one about the Wahnsee conference?
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional

Yep

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:06 PM (arJlL)

17 I know this isn't the Book Thread, but I think it's on topic. I have a book titled "They Thought They Were Free," where the author interviews 10 Germans after the war. The interviewees weren't important or leaders of any kind. The parallels between what they lived through and what we're living through are disturbing, to say the least.

Posted by: Numbuh Two, 2x4 Technology Operative at June 12, 2021 07:06 PM (YWBlw)

18 "not-see"......100 style points for "Tusk" reference.....oiy,what a movie....lolol....

Posted by: uncouth jay marks at June 12, 2021 07:06 PM (9SGBP)

19 "Let My People Go' is the most definitive Holocaust movie. It set me on a path of research and awareness.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:06 PM (GOz58)

20 Last few days decided ( not in stone forever) my often stated top 10 war movies list.
You accidentally forgot "We Were Soldiers Once". I'll forgive you. Once.

Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:07 PM (v16oJ)

21 Even German viewpoint movies of WWII are not pro Nazi, at least none I can think of.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:07 PM (Cxk7w)

22 Don't. Be. A. Nazi.

==

Now wait a minute, we were treated very badly by that flying ghost lady.

Posted by: Melting nazis from Raiders at June 12, 2021 07:07 PM (V13WU)

23 13 moviegique - have you ever seen Conspiracy, an HBO film ?
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (arJlL)

I linked to that one where it says "no, not that one". ;-)

And to the original 1984 German TV production, which is probably better. (But both were before I was blogging movie reviews.)

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (dhFCT)

24 The only good nazi is a dead nazi.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (0OP+5)

25 You accidentally forgot "We Were Soldiers Once". I'll forgive you. Once.
Also, Das Boot.

Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (v16oJ)

26 "Jet Storm" (1959) Archetypal airliner terror plot, this time in a suspiciously roomy Tu-104. The most gruesome catastrophe is the awful theme music. Stanley Baker and Richard Attenborough, always reliable performers.

"The Murder of Mary Phagan" (198

Two-ep TV miniseries. Fascinating lynching story written by Larry McMurtry. Don't know how true it is, an' ah don' 'spec ahl evah fahnd out f'shuh.

"The King of Kings" (1927) I just watched this, and already totally forgot it. I'm not panning this movie at all, just noting that my memory is shit. Most honest movie review you'll read this week.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (qpX6U)

27 Finally got to see Greyhounds (found out daughter had Appletv). My goodness! It might be the best war movie I've ever seen. I already rewatched it twice and it doesn't get old.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (dmfmx)

28 I like We Were Soldiers Once but didn't get into top 10.
Went down a few sites top war movies just so wouldn't accidentally forget a good one.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (Cxk7w)

29 The miniseries "Holocaust" is a must-watch on this. Yes, Meryl Streep (great performance) but it also has one of the greatest honorary Morons - James Woods (as Streep's love interest/husband who dies at Auschwitz just before liberation). The military details are exquisite, especially for something filmed in 1978.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (KAi1n)

30 Finally got to see Greyhounds (found out daughter had Appletv). My
goodness! It might be the best war movie I've ever seen. I already
rewatched it twice and it doesn't get old.
I've seen clips from it on YT, but I don't get HBO, so I haven't seen it in its entirety. It looks really good, though.

Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (v16oJ)

31 One of our friends had a German grandmother, lived through WWII.

Would not say a bad word about Hitler. "He did many good things for Germany/"

What about all the Jews in your town who suddenly went missing?

"Oh, we didn't know."

Uh-huh. Right.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (nGb+J)

32 I watched Triumph of the Will on YouTube a while back. It took some dogged perseverance to sit through the whole thing. It's interesting as a historical piece but I really had to wonder about a society that would have been impressed by it.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (fLVm1)

33 I like We Were Soldiers Once but didn't get into top 10.
Went down a few sites top war movies just so wouldn't accidentally forget a good one.
Posted by: Skip

Did you ever see A Walk in the Sun ?

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:10 PM (arJlL)

34 Skip @ 12- You left off The Outlaw Josey Wales. And The Shootist.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:10 PM (0OP+5)

35 31 Finally got to see Greyhounds (found out daughter had Appletv). My
goodness! It might be the best war movie I've ever seen. I already
rewatched it twice and it doesn't get old.
I've seen clips from it on YT, but I don't get HBO, so I haven't seen it in its entirety. It looks really good, though.
Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (v16oJ)

I've also watched Greyhound (singular) twice. Great movie.

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:10 PM (nGb+J)

36 What I learned recently is that Antifa has its origins in nazi Germany, but the problem with it for lots of Americans today is they think of nazis as those German dudes, with the funny ways of goosestepping and killing Jews.

But the origins of Antifa are that basically EVERYONE who ain't communist, is a nazi. So the agitators in Germany weren't really all that interested in the actual, you know, nazis in their midst. No, they were interested in the social democrats, and the pinks and the Trotskeyites and whatever else wasn't orthodoxy from the perspective of their Soviet masters.

Same thing today, really.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:10 PM (naMR+)

37
IMDB used to be a good website. Then it started with the propaganda and agenda.

Now, IMDB is completely unreadable. It's a mess. They changed the layout without the option to view the "classic" or old version/.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Untrue But Accurate Tales at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (IjYIN)

38 One of my high school German teachers was a kid during WWII and was marched past the graves with the rest of the townsfolk.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (Dc2NZ)

39 One of our friends had a German grandmother, lived through WWII.

Would not say a bad word about Hitler. "He did many good things for Germany/"

What about all the Jews in your town who suddenly went missing?

"Oh, we didn't know."

Uh-huh. Right.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancin

She thought they went to Vegas

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (arJlL)

40 I've seen clips from it on YT, but I don't get HBO, so I haven't seen it in its entirety. It looks really good, though.
Posted by: pep

My goodness, once the action starts, which is very early, it doesn't stop until the very end. Just wow.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (dmfmx)

41 Movies love Nazis. They are very versatile bad guys.

Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (Tnijr)

42 It always starts small, with inconvenient people.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (V13WU)

43 "The Blue Max" (1966) Thanks to the moron who recommended this one recently! It's a pre-CGI aerial spectacle, with a focus on the pilots' personalities. Must have cost a fortune to stage and cast. I love the ending! I confess I am not a Peppard fan, and for me he's not quite menacing enough to play this psychopathic Hun. I don't get the two scenes where he dips his finger in champagne and sucks it. Seems an unmanly thing to do, and it sure doesn't make the wine taste any better. I don't understand why his superiors and fellow pilots put up with his insubordination and bad conduct when he first arrives on duty from flight school; at that point in the plot, they aren't so desperate for pilots that they couldn't wash him out. Maybe if I read the novel I'd understand this all better. Loni von Friedl dressed is way hotter than Ursula Andress undressed.

Posted by: gp's Movie Laffs at June 12, 2021 07:12 PM (qpX6U)

44 Apparently, only people from Pa. can comment here !
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:02 PM (arJlL)

White PArivilege

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:12 PM (oEn12)

45 Which is EXACTLY what Gina Carano said.
Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (v16oJ)

So after Disney tried everything to get rid of her, including cancelling the continued promotion of the Star Wars figure of her character, an upcoming Lego set has her character in it.

So her cancellation clearly wasn't complete.

Posted by: Bete at June 12, 2021 07:12 PM (Ojki1)

46 Movies love Nazis. They are very versatile bad guys.
Posted by: f'd

Even Illinois Nazis.

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:12 PM (arJlL)

47 Hitler made Mussolini make the trains run on time.

Posted by: klaftern at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (r4sI4)

48 27 Finally got to see Greyhounds (found out daughter had Appletv). My goodness! It might be the best war movie I've ever seen. I already rewatched it twice and it doesn't get old.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (dmfmx)

Yeah I thought it was overall pretty good.

Posted by: buzzion at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (vMCab)

49 Apparently, only people from Pa. can comment here !
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:02 PM (arJlL)

White PArivilege
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion

LOL !!!

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (arJlL)

50 Last few days decided ( not in stone forever) my often stated top 10 war movies list.
-------------
Eight Iron Men

Attack

Posted by: dartist at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (+ya+t)

51 ||18 "not-see"......100 style points for "Tusk" reference.....oiy,what a movie....lolol....
Posted by: uncouth jay marks at June 12, 2021 07:06 PM (9SGBP)||

It was unconscious, but I am one of the few people who like "Tusk".

https://moviegique.com/2014/10/tusk/

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (dhFCT)

52 Who can't forget "The Day the Clown Cried"?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (vuisn)

53 I don't know if it's a war movie, but 13 Hours gets me going every time.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (dmfmx)

54 Apropos, all the real talent, imagination now is not in Hollywood blockbusters, but is residing on TV. Netflix, Amazon those vehicles.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (V13WU)

55 One of our friends had a German grandmother, lived through WWII.
Would not say a bad word about Hitler. "He did many good things for Germany/"
What about all the Jews in your town who suddenly went missing?
"Oh, we didn't know."
Uh-huh. Right.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (nGb+J)

I knew a lass when I was in Germany, she said her grandfather basically acted as if it never happened. If she ever tried to approach him about it, he would simply clam up, play ignorant, and say NOTHING.

Nice.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (naMR+)

56 "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas" should be seen by everyone. The same with "The Stoning of Soroya M".

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (GOz58)

57 A thread like this worries me...I am sure the anti-semites will come out for this one

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (Irn0L)

58 Movies love Nazis. They are very versatile bad guys.
If you have to pick the least bad bad guys from WWII, it's the Italians. They clearly didn't have their hearts in it. They just wanted a good time.

Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (v16oJ)

59 A thread like this worries me...I am sure the anti-semites will come out for this one
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (Irn0L)

CBD ? He is probably asleep...

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:15 PM (V13WU)

60 I knew a lass when I was in Germany, she said her grandfather basically acted as if it never happened. If she ever tried to approach him about it, he would simply clam up, play ignorant, and say NOTHING.

Her grandpa was Sgt. Schultz ?

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:15 PM (arJlL)

61 Also saw Guy Ritchie's Wrath of Man. Not what I expected. Not Guy Ritchie humor like Snatched. Stands on its own though.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:15 PM (dmfmx)

62 59 A thread like this worries me...I am sure the anti-semites will come out for this one
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (Irn0L)

Always good for them to get identified and banned.

Posted by: buzzion at June 12, 2021 07:16 PM (vMCab)

63 Das Boot got erased! It should be 6th pushing Full Metal Jacket off the list
I wrote them down but lost it putting it in order.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:16 PM (Cxk7w)

64 If you have to pick the least bad bad guys from WWII, it's the Italians. They clearly didn't have their hearts in it. They just wanted a good time.
Posted by: pep at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (v16oJ)
---

And Boss threads!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 07:16 PM (Dc2NZ)

65 Think of all the movies that would never have been made without Nazis.

Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (Tnijr)

66 A thread like this worries me...I am sure the anti-semites will come out for this one
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (Irn0L)

CBD ? He is probably asleep...
Posted by: runner

He NEVER sleeps.

Go ahead...pour some maple syrup on a waffle.....

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (arJlL)

67 67 Think of all the movies that would never have been made without Nazis.
Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (Tnijr)

The Nazis has given us so much!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (Dc2NZ)

68 The only good nazi is a dead nazi.
Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (0OP+5)

Watch "Dead Snow."

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (naMR+)

69 I think Triumph of the Will was effective in context.

-assume that Germany had just come out of both WWI but also a period of extreme economic as well as social upheaval.

-notice how much emphasis the film places on several themes: Youth. Happiness. Working together toward a combined goal. Unity. It is all groups with less focus on the individual. Belonging. Stability. Plenty.

-especially in an era before too much deconstruction has gone on (or conversely, real deconstruction of WWI) and these themes would have much more power than we would understand.

-I would also point out the themes I mentioned above motivate a lot of the Woke and Antifa crowd.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (csEWM)

70
A photoshop of biden in this post as the catatonic nazi leader in that episode of Star Wars would've been a nice touch.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Untrue But Accurate Tales at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (IjYIN)

71 IMDB is owned by Amazon now..... they are screwing it up already...somehow.....

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (Psv/l)

72 I really was getting into Das Boot (the series) but damn Hulu won't pick up the latest season.

I still recommend it.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (vuisn)

73 I've always enjoyed my visits to Germany, both the mileage runs, the dance events, and the goth stuff. Aside from the language, you'd never know from just being around Germans that you're not in America. (That may be because Germany is the largest source of European immigration to the U.S.) Most of them struck me as non-religious and rather friendly actually. Historically, Germany (which was not unified until circa 1877) was a mixed bag for Jews. Some areas good, some not so good. Better than countries that were all bad, which was most of Europe at one time or another.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (KAi1n)

74 In addition to the question what did they know, perhaps more relevant to today is when did they know it? In, say, July 1938, who knew that in November Kristallnacht would occur and in three years Einsatzgruppe would be roaming the East shooting Jews? Looking back we can see that they were up to some serious evil from the get go but it must have been easy at the time to ignore the speech and conduct of a few fringe characters. And now we look around and see . . .

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (d9FiS)

75 Watched another multi episode documentary on WWII and found out France declared war on Germany first. I didn't know that. Didn't really matter much though.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (dmfmx)

76 Hmm, is 13 Hours a war movie? Dismissed Magnificent Seven because it's not a war yet fighting goes on.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (Cxk7w)

77 7 My link "charmingly quirky" links to my Jojo review, vmom. ;-)

***
Nice review

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (oEn12)

78 71 The only good nazi is a dead nazi.
Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:08 PM (0OP+5)

Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (naMR+)

Broaden to 'Nazi & Communist' and you have my emphatic newsletter money.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (csEWM)

79 NGU, moviequiqe better have his finger on the ban function and be paying attention.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:19 PM (GOz58)

80 Blutarski just read that part in last half hour in Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:20 PM (Cxk7w)

81 76 I've always enjoyed my visits to Germany, both the mileage runs, the dance events, and the goth stuff.

----------

"Dance events"? Like polka?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:20 PM (fLVm1)

82 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:20 PM (KAi1n)

83 I knew a German woman who was in the Hitler Youth at the very end of the war, captured by the Russians and horribly mistreated, rescued (later married) by American Major. She yet did not like Jews. I never heard her blame Hitler for anything.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:21 PM (0OP+5)

84 In addition to the question what did they know, perhaps more relevant to today is when did they know it?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston

One of my favorite scenes of Band of Brothers is after they've discovered the concentration camp. They KNEW the locals were lying about not knowing and made them deal with the dead bodies. Rough justice that we don't do anymore.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:21 PM (dmfmx)

85 Hey Skip, how about The Unknown Soldier?

Posted by: dartist at June 12, 2021 07:21 PM (+ya+t)

86 One of our friends had a German grandmother, lived through WWII.
Would not say a bad word about Hitler. "He did many good things for Germany/"
What about all the Jews in your town who suddenly went missing?
"Oh, we didn't know."
Uh-huh. Right.
Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Social Distancing Professional at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (nGb+J)

I knew a lass when I was in Germany, she said her grandfather basically acted as if it never happened. If she ever tried to approach him about it, he would simply clam up, play ignorant, and say NOTHING.

-
A nation of Sgt. Schultzes.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:21 PM (d9FiS)

87 82 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)
Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:20 PM (KAi1n)

Seems like I remember a case or two. I'll try to look it up.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:21 PM (csEWM)

88
Alternate post title:

Is It Safe?!?!

Posted by: Soothsayer's Untrue But Accurate Tales at June 12, 2021 07:22 PM (IjYIN)

89 Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC

Zombie Nazis is a surprisingly robust sub-genre of horror.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:22 PM (dmfmx)

90 The left has been going full throttle trying to dehumanize conservatives since Trump got elected in 2016. Their "Final Solution" attempt can't be more than 10 years away. We are already terrorists and insurrectionists according the MSM and the Democraps.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (h1jJh)

91 Okay; you guys are gonna make me have another beer; I WAS gonna go read my book !

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (arJlL)

92 ||Which is EXACTLY what Gina Carano said

I did not know that but I would be more than happy to discuss it with her at length.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (dhFCT)

93 To those that slunk back into the shadows I hope you burn in Eternal Hell forever any may all your generations be ravaged by cancer and AIDS. Fuck you all.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (GOz58)

94 Nazis or Commies . I hate them equally.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (2DOZq)

95 Movies love Nazis. They are very versatile bad guys.
Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:11 PM (Tnijr)

Movie makers love Nazis. And there have been many good ones. I just wish the ratio of Nazi to Communist horror films was a little but less than 20-1.

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 07:24 PM (KuDNQ)

96 Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:03 PM (Cxk7w)
***********
Love the soundtrack in Last of the Mohicans.

Posted by: redridinghood at June 12, 2021 07:24 PM (NpAcC)

97 "Dance events"? Like polka?
Posted by: Cicero

Well, yes actually.
earlydance.org

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:24 PM (KAi1n)

98 Had an East German refugee at my church who'd served in the Hitler Youth right at the end of the war when they were throwing 14 year olds on antiaircraft guns. A more gentle person you could not find. His name was Helmut. He could not surrender fast enough.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (dmfmx)

99 SFGoth, no less than Otto Skorzeny helped Israel in its effort against the Egyptian ballistic missile program (ahemm, which had German scientists and engineers in it), after Mossad sort of made a deal with him.

He would help them penetrate the things they wanted into, and they'd not put him on any priority list for, well, "action" or pursuit in the future. Wild.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (OTzUX)

100 There were a number of Germans who after the war assisted with capturing and bringing Nazi criminals to justice.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (V13WU)

101 One criteria was multiple viewings, seen lots of war movies for the first time within last year, many Russian ones.
Not sure Come and See I will again, but it's a powerful movie,

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (Cxk7w)

102 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)
Posted by: SFGoth

Many believe that super Nazi Otto Skorzeny became a hitman for the Israelis.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (d9FiS)

103 94 Nazis or Commies . I hate them equally.
Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:23 PM (2DOZq)

This.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (csEWM)

104 Evening.

The cute sullen aryan girl?

I'd hit it.

Posted by: Robert, not gonna speculate on her age at June 12, 2021 07:25 PM (1Yy3c)

105 In addition to the question what did they know, perhaps more relevant to today is when did they know it? In, say, July 1938, who knew that in November Kristallnacht would occur and in three years Einsatzgruppe would be roaming the East shooting Jews? Looking back we can see that they were up to some serious evil from the get go but it must have been easy at the time to ignore the speech and conduct of a few fringe characters. And now we look around and see . . .
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:18 PM (d9FiS)

I started reading "Beyond Belief" by Deborah Lipstadt. It's a hard read, so I didn't get very far. It's about what the American press knew, and when they knew it, and tries to give a clear account of who is culpable for NOT reporting, and why.

I don't blame the author for me not getting very far with it. It's a dry account, but it kinda has to be.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (naMR+)

106 Wait. Goth Polka?

Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (Tnijr)

107 "Babylon Berlin" is also pretty awesome on Netflix.
Weimar-era detective show, proto-nazis, proto-commies, and cabaret women.

"Oktoberfest: Beer & Blood" is also a good drama. Beer, business, betrayal, and bloodshed. And some boobs.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (vuisn)

108 Who we be punching tonite? Commies or Nazis....

Or both!?

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (3H9h1)

109 Go ahead...pour some maple syrup on a waffle.....
Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:17 PM (arJlL)
********(
He's ok with that, it's the French toast, for some crazy reason, he has a problem with.

Posted by: redridinghood at June 12, 2021 07:27 PM (NpAcC)

110 Interesting article on Major Karl Plagge who helped Lithuanian Jews DURING the war.

https://tinyurl.com/nnjuarch

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:27 PM (csEWM)

111 87 82 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)
Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:20 PM (KAi1n)

----------

Look up Otto Skorzeny. He was Hitler's go-to guy for insane commando missions, including the wild rescue of Mussolini from Italian imprisonment.He was Tom Cruise but in real life.

He went to work for Mossad (and, IIRC, the Irgun) after the war.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:27 PM (fLVm1)

112 The German attitude toward the Holocaust has evolved over the years. Given the Jews were such a small minority and heavily urbanized most Germans had been successfully conditioned to simply look away and not see, it was rather easy.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at June 12, 2021 07:27 PM (EZebt)

113 ||58 "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas" should be seen by everyone. The same with "The Stoning of Soroya M".
Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:14 PM (GOz5

||

TBitSP review is my very first link above, because that's where I coined the phrase "Don't be a Nazi". If you like that movie, you may not like my review, because while there is much good about it, I felt like the underlying message ("Don't be a Nazi") was a little too much like--well, these days we'd call it "virtue signaling".

I feel like the movie is manipulative (and unbelievable) in a way that encourages people to glibly say "Well, I'd have been different." I prefer movies like this where you're kind of left thinking, "Well, hell. I'd like to HOPE I'd fight it, but if I did, I probably wouldn't be around for interviews 70 years later."

But again, I am jaded. At some point, when I have a month or two, I may do a "Holocaust movie" roundup.

https://moviegique.com/2009/07/everybody-must-get-stoned/

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:27 PM (dhFCT)

114 Hey everybody! Hey Movie Thread! Hey Moviegique!

Question for you and TJM: have either of you seen Shoah?

I admit a few years ago when I had a little extra money, I bought the thing (all 9 hours!) on Criterion disc.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (L2ZTs)

115 where can we see this? is it on Amazon?
I doubt there have been a "pro Nazi?" movies in this world, why would there be. I recall a French movie about the French who saved many Jews, I forget the name.

I also realize Hollywood made movies like The Desert Fox and tv shows like Hogan's Heroes not that long after the war. For some reason many wanted to downplay everything. Now we make everything as stark as possible. It is interesting for many reasons. The Americans who suffered the most from it seemed to be more open to lampooning and seeing at least skill in their opponents.

Today we are sure of the evil, but really, 50 years ago they were sure of it too. The chance anyone makes a movie showing the skill of a German general today is nil. And it is interesting that all Germans are Nazis now. THey do have a lot to answer for, but they were not all Nazis. And for sure not all of the officer corps and troops were made up of Nazis. Maybe I am wrong, it is not my war of study.

Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (gJfTA)

116 Don't be a Nazi. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times! No matter how beautiful, charmingly quirky, sexy, or kinky, they make it look, no matter how much you hate Jews, or commies, or the French, or gays, or fairies, no matter how much power, prestige, privilege, wealth, art, gigs, animals or memes they offer you: Don't. Be. A. Nazi.

Shouldn't this be posted on one of those Democrat forums?

Posted by: Splunge at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (RzGcW)

117 106 Wait. Goth Polka?
Posted by: f'd at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (Tnijr)

---------

It's oom papa, but with the looming spectre of sudden death.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (fLVm1)

118 Eromero- Not sure if it's your reading type but Innocent Lost is a story of a German girl teenager and her mother and younger brother. Sounds probably very close to your friend's story.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (Cxk7w)

119 You know who's never come to terms with their wartime atrocities? Japan. That's who.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (dmfmx)

120 I never back away from those "hard reads". I read them, weep and plan accordingly.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (GOz58)

121 Otto Skorzeny

==

Prolific, double, triple quadruple agent.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (V13WU)

122 "Babylon Berlin" is also pretty awesome on Netflix.
Weimar-era detective show, proto-nazis, proto-commies, and cabaret women.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (vuisn)

Ooooo, that was good! Really slow paced but great looking period piece. One of the Horde recommended it and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

There's a third season, right?

Posted by: Robert, not gonna speculate on her age at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (1Yy3c)

123 The absolutely stupefyingly idiotic equation of "nationalism" with "evil Nazi-like stuff" would kind of negate any value in to the movie, to me.

Only nationalism enabled the destruction of Nazism. Duh.

Nationalism can be on the side of righteousness (for select countries, it typically is - scandalous reality for the dimwit moral narcissists, but they're much too dumb to grasp it).

Gee, which historic figures with Stalin resurrect to name the new decorations coined for the Great Patriotic War. Right. Russia's greatest national military heroes. Not a new Soviet- or commie-themed decoration or term in the whole GPW lexicon.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (OTzUX)

124 ||Question for you and TJM: have either of you seen Shoah?

I have not. But I have seen both "Last of the Unjust" and "The Four Sisters" (links are up there somewhere) which are lengthy films Claude Lanzmann made from leftover footage of Shoah.

My stepfather has seen Shoah in the theater twice, and at home once. If it plays, I'll definitely go see it. "Last of the Unjust" was amazing.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:30 PM (dhFCT)

125 Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 07:28 PM (gJfTA)

I would argue that there are tons of movies glorifying fascism- they just do not call it fascism. China is fascist (by my definition.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:30 PM (csEWM)

126 119 You know who's never come to terms with their wartime atrocities? Japan. That's who.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (dmfmx)

BLM and Antifa, too.

Posted by: Splunge at June 12, 2021 07:30 PM (RzGcW)

127 Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC

Fun

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:31 PM (oEn12)

128 He's ok with that, it's the French toast, for some crazy reason, he has a problem with.
Posted by: redridinghood

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:31 PM (arJlL)

129 Anyone seen "Nobody?" I think I want to see it, but would welcome a Horde opinion or 10.

Posted by: Splunge at June 12, 2021 07:31 PM (RzGcW)

130 Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC

Its sequel is something like Better Dead than Red. Nazis AND Commie zombies facing off.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:32 PM (dmfmx)

131 Thanks Skip @ 118. Author name?

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:33 PM (0OP+5)

132 I would argue that there are tons of movies glorifying fascism- they just do not call it fascism. China is fascist (by my definition.)
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:30 PM (csEWM)

-----------

China is the perfect paradigm of fascism.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:33 PM (fLVm1)

133 Anyone seen "Nobody?" I think I want to see it, but would welcome a Horde opinion or 10.
Posted by: Splunge

You'll love it. It's John Wickian.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:33 PM (dmfmx)

134 129 Anyone seen "Nobody?" I think I want to see it, but would welcome a Horde opinion or 10.
Posted by: Splunge at June 12, 2021 07:31 PM (RzGcW)

I have heard it is quite good. Some equated it to John Wick- which is high praise in my book. Just have not remembered to watch it when I have a minute.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:33 PM (csEWM)

135 Thanks Skip @ 118. Author name?
Posted by: Eromero

Ted

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:33 PM (arJlL)

136 I never back away from those "hard reads". I read them, weep and plan accordingly.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (GOz5

It sorta matters where I am at the time (time-wise, not location). I started reading the book last Fall. For reasons that probably need not be explained, I wasn't up to reading anything that heavy. I'll pick it up again... but I have so many "heavy" books around here...

Recently finished the Scott Pilgrim saga though.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (naMR+)

137 Moviegique, thanks!

Splunge: I wanna see Nobody, definitely. Everyone here who's seen it seems to like it.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (L2ZTs)

138 which brings us to today. we can all laugh over Karens and mask mandates , but what if next time something harsher comes down? how many will resist ? how many will tell on their neighbors? how many of your neighbors, relatives even, do you now trust ?

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (V13WU)

139 The movie of the boy in a Japanese prisoners of War is good, forgot the title.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (Cxk7w)

140 The Japanese do wonder why the Chinese hate them, as I mentioned in this review of "Labyrinth of Lies":

https://moviegique.com/2015/10/labyrinth-of-lies/

This (German) movie makes the case that by 1958, the Germans had all but forgotten the...more unpleasant...aspects of the war, and considerable effort was expended turning that around.

On a side-note, what a surreal experience to be a young person entering life and realizing that EVERYONE AROUND YOU WAS A LITERAL NAZI.

You can almost feel sorry for SJWs, who experience that every day.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (dhFCT)

141 130 Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC

Its sequel is something like Better Dead than Red. Nazis AND Commie zombies facing off.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:32 PM (dmfmx)

Wasn't there another one (Nazi Horror movie, modern) like Stronghold or Fortress or something like that? Nazi monster experiments during WWII is the setup.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (csEWM)

142 sorry , don't want to hijack the thread, a discussion for another time.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (V13WU)

143 moviegique, I respectfully disagree. To me , you missed the whole point of the movie from what you just said. I don't even know where to begin.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (GOz58)

144 The Japanese do wonder why the Chinese hate them

==

Chinese hate everybody.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (V13WU)

145 Well, on a happier topic, I saw Oblivion. I thought it was a pretty good action syfy movie even if confusing. I understand that there is a controversy between those who think the problem is too small audience attention span and those who think the problem is bad script.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (d9FiS)

146 Wasn't there another one (Nazi Horror movie, modern) like Stronghold or Fortress or something like that? Nazi monster experiments during WWII is the setup.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (csEWM)

Overlord.

Posted by: Napoleon XIV at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (AiZBA)

147 Michigan Public School Defends Allowing Student to Display Free Palestine Flag at Graduation

Another holocaust is not beyond my imagination

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (Irn0L)

148 The Pianist was a very good movie.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (2DOZq)

149 The movie of the boy in a Japanese prisoners of War is good, forgot the title.
Posted by: Skip

Empire of the Sun, maybe?

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (dmfmx)

150 Watch "Dead Snow."
Posted by: BurtTC

Its sequel is something like Better Dead than Red. Nazis AND Commie zombies facing off.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:32 PM (dmfmx)

I never saw the sequel, because I only kinda sorta liked the first one.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (naMR+)

151 139 The movie of the boy in a Japanese prisoners of War is good, forgot the title.
Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (Cxk7w)||

Steven Spielberg's "Empire of the Sun" perhaps, based on J.G. Ballard's novel and featuring boy-actor Christian Bale?

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (dhFCT)

152 Call me crazy but there's a Beatles movie I'm actually looking forward to seeing later this year: "Get Back."

It's McCartney and Peter Jackson's re-edit of "Let It Be," which did *not* paint a lovely picture of the band in 1969 at all.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (L2ZTs)

153 Skip, you might be thinking of "Empire of the Sun", a based-on-real-experience story of a young Brit boy in an internment camp in Shanghai.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (OTzUX)

154 142 sorry , don't want to hijack the thread, a discussion for another time.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (V13WU)

For my part, no need to apologize. It is all part and parcel of the same thing.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (csEWM)

155 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:35 PM (d9FiS)

I thought it was excellent. What was the alleged problem with it?

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (2DOZq)

156 I want to see next installment of Bond - No Time to Die. There, I said it.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:37 PM (V13WU)

157 Wasn't there another one (Nazi Horror movie, modern) like Stronghold or Fortress or something like that? Nazi monster experiments during WWII is the setup.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (csEWM)

You don't mean "Overlord," do you?

Quite enjoyable, that one.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:37 PM (naMR+)

158 Overlord.
Posted by: Napoleon XIV

Yes. But my personal favorite of the Nazi Zombie genre is Frankenstein's Army. It's a hoot.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:37 PM (dmfmx)

159 I believe Ballard actually lived the experience of internment as a young boy in China.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:37 PM (OTzUX)

160 Steven Spielberg's "Empire of the Sun" perhaps, based on J.G. Ballard's novel and featuring boy-actor Christian Bale?

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (dhFCT)

good film.

Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 07:37 PM (gJfTA)

161 Skip

Empire of the Sun, from the autobiographical novel by JG Ballard.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (u82oZ)

162 105 Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:26 PM (naMR+)

Burt, I always fall back on what a professor of mine once said, which was, "they knew enough to know that they didn't want to know."

Everyone in Germany knew Hitler hated the Jews, that wasn't open to debate. And after 1940-41, when the T4 euthanasia program became public knowledge, they knew Hitler was willing to eliminate his fellow Aryans if they were "defective," so what might he do to the Jews? Most wouldn't have known the details of the camps, because the Nazis did try to keep those secret, but there was enough evidence out there that anyone who thought about it for any length of time would have known that something very bad was happening. The claims of ignorance are simply not credible, regardless of how far a given German supported Hitler.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (Vgw1E)

163 Sort of like whathisname was a POW at Chang-I in Singapore, basis for his novel "King Rat".

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (OTzUX)

164 152 Call me crazy but there's a Beatles movie I'm actually looking forward to seeing later this year: "Get Back."

It's McCartney and Peter Jackson's re-edit of "Let It Be," which did *not* paint a lovely picture of the band in 1969 at all.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (L2ZTs)

The reedit or the original?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (csEWM)

165 I probably have distant German cousins of mine who killed more distant Jewish cousins.

Posted by: Baldy at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (LZ7J4)

166 Wasn't there another one (Nazi Horror movie, modern) like Stronghold or Fortress or something like that? Nazi monster experiments during WWII is the setup.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:34 PM (csEWM)

They used to show "Shock Waves" all the time on Channel 36 late night. That was nazi aquatic zombies vs. one of the Carradines.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (vuisn)

167 Has anyone here ever seen Apt Pupil?

I believe it's about a young teenage boy who discovers his elderly neighbor is an actual escaped Nazi, complete with uniform in the closet.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (L2ZTs)

168 Oh yeah, now I remember the deal with Skorzenny after the war. Not a bad one for him. Breaking Mussolini out of prison was definitely rarified work.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 07:39 PM (KAi1n)

169 For my part, no need to apologize. It is all part and parcel of the same thing.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:36 PM (csEWM

Yep, donks are conditioning a generation of informers. Bastards

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 07:39 PM (ONvIw)

170 ||To me , you missed the whole point of the movie from what you just said. ||

Wait. You mean the point of the movie is "Be a Nazi"? 'cause I did NOT get that.

;-)

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:39 PM (dhFCT)

171 167 Has anyone here ever seen Apt Pupil?

I believe it's about a young teenage boy who discovers his elderly neighbor is an actual escaped Nazi, complete with uniform in the closet.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (L2ZTs)

Saw it. Horrible fucking movie.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:39 PM (csEWM)

172 Look up Otto Skorzeny. He was Hitler's go-to guy for insane commando missions, including the wild rescue of Mussolini from Italian imprisonment.He was Tom Cruise but in real life.
---

Maybe if one Tom Cruise was sitting on the shoulder of another Tom Cruise and they had a big overcoat on. Wasn't Otto like 6'7"?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (Dc2NZ)

173 Aetius, Apt Pupil always sounded to me like an early SJW film: the kid is trying to humiliate the elderly Nazi to death.

And I now just read that it was based on a short story written by, who else, Stephen King.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (L2ZTs)

174 Everybody has their perspectives, I wasn't there. I did discuss somewhat indirectly with some of the "locals" when I was stationed over there.

Think about how batshit crazy people are getting here in this country. How they have been worked over and guilt tripped and indoctrinated, and the incredible pressure they are under to conform. And we're not coming out of a complete currency collapse and hyperinflation and punitive war crime reparations etc.

Certainly not excusing what they did, but I think it's fair to say it's not surprising they were led to destruction by a bunch of wack jobs. It's pretty easy to do, apparently. Plenty of scholarly works on how they took control, and how things got out of control. Nobody will admit to being cowards, but people are awfully quick to say they would have acted differently. That's not a whole lot different than people today who want to "cancel" US historical figures because they weren't perfect people by today's standards. What they are claiming, is they are better people, even though they have no idea what it was actualy like.

It's always easy to stand around and do nothing if your paycheck demands it. We've seen plenty of that.

Posted by: Common Tater at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (Ejylv)

175 Eromoro Else Elfriede Burt ( Hopp)
Kindle unlimited free, thinks that's where I found it. Was good, learned a bit about German socialism.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (Cxk7w)

176
Castle Wolfenstein was banned in Germany. Then it was allowed, but heavily edited, I think.

Which is funny because lots of stuff is "Verboten" in Germany, making the country, ironically, pretty nazi-ish.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Untrue But Accurate Tales at June 12, 2021 07:41 PM (IjYIN)

177 Kind of related, there's a documentary on UToob about the Jewish Brigade of the British Army. Very interesting. Highly recommend the book ("The Brigade") on the subject. Several of principal figures in the book are interviewed in the documentary.

The smarts, guts, elan, and enterprising mindset of these guys were just stunning.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (OTzUX)

178 Germans in the early 70s didn't mess with American GIs, our fathers beat their asses. I remember bums giving us the German finger and saying fuck the states that were around our father's age. GIs would beat their asses in bars for no reason and no one would say boo. Can't imagine that happening here.

Posted by: dartist at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (+ya+t)

179 The claims of ignorance are simply not credible, regardless of how far a given German supported Hitler.
Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (Vgw1E)

I think the gist of Lipstadt's position in her book, is that American journalists WERE hamstrung by nazi handlers inside the country, and so they weren't really allowed to reveal too much, or they'd be booted. So they had to be careful.

The real question then, becomes one about what the American editors here in good ol' US of A were willing to say, knowing what they DID know. And the indictment seems to lie there, primarily, and less so with the journalists on the ground in Germany.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (naMR+)

180 There was a point of no return for people living inside nazi Germany, or in countries under nazi occupation. What is appalling are incidents like S.S. St. Louis. The diplomats who knew and did nothing. The countries and their leaders who were on the outside and who either refused or did not care to believe.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (V13WU)

181 Maybe if one Tom Cruise was sitting on the shoulder of another Tom Cruise and they had a big overcoat on. Wasn't Otto like 6'7"?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes

What the heck; he was Reacher.

Guess Tom Cruise is gonna play Shaq next.

Posted by: JT at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (arJlL)

182 Maybe if one Tom Cruise was sitting on the shoulder of another Tom Cruise and they had a big overcoat on. Wasn't Otto like 6'7"?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (Dc2NZ)

So was fictional Jack Reacher. That didn't stop 'em.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (2DOZq)

183 What started my war movie list, talk of a prequel of a Master and Commander new movie.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:43 PM (Cxk7w)

184 JT, Tom's having himself stretched and widened as we speak! ;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:43 PM (L2ZTs)

185 I probably have distant German cousins of mine who killed more distant Jewish cousins.
Posted by: Baldy at June 12, 2021 07:38 PM (LZ7J4)

Sounds like you have some fun family reunions.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 07:44 PM (Vgw1E)

186 In all seriousness, it's just crazy how perfect of a villain Nazis make for Hollywood. Too perfect in fact.

I've said before that if the Nazis never existed, Hollywood would have *had* to invent them. They were straight out of casting central in hell.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:44 PM (L2ZTs)

187 173 Aetius, Apt Pupil always sounded to me like an early SJW film: the kid is trying to humiliate the elderly Nazi to death.

And I now just read that it was based on a short story written by, who else, Stephen King.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM (L2ZTs)

Yeah, I saw it when it came out. First movie I think I ever saw Ian McKellen in.

The biggest problem is that the movie almost treats the Nazi ideology as a virus that is communicable. The kid figures out that McKellen is this Nazi officer. And he ostensibly wants to learn about the time period from him. Then at the end after McKellen dies, the kid kills a bird for funsies and stares into the camera- like he 'caught' the Nazi.

This could have been done saying that the mindset of casual cruelty and dehumanizing those around you are fertile ground, and they do have some elements of that here, but they do not draw them together and instead seem to make the argument that it is better to not learn history because you might 'catch the Nazi.'

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:44 PM (csEWM)

188 I haven't seen "Empire of the Sun" in a very long time. I do recall enjoying it. It's quite good. The ending was very moving.

Posted by: Puddleglum at June 12, 2021 07:45 PM (7dTEx)

189 183 What started my war movie list, talk of a prequel of a Master and Commander new movie.
Posted by: Skip

A prequel? That would be awesome

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:45 PM (oEn12)

190 ..Hitler made Mussolini make the trains run on time.
Posted by: klaftern at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (r4sI4)

It was trivially easy for Il Duce to "make the trains run on time". 1930s Italy had pretty much a Wild West non-system of train schedules. There was minimal discipline given to keeping a Standard Time at train stations, and there was far too much rolling stock on such tracks as were available.

Mussolini took about sixty percent (or more) of the then existent trains and cars out of service, put 'em all in railyards and sidings, and what was left got put on strict schedules, with train stations required to check time by telegraph, several times per day.

So, no "five trains a day to Rome". Just one. But, it was very likely to be on time, or the engineer, conductor and station-master might well have to answer for it with fine, penalties or flat out loss of a job.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at June 12, 2021 07:45 PM (QzJWU)

191 Aetius, Apt Pupil always sounded to me like an early SJW film: the kid is trying to humiliate the elderly Nazi to death.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:40 PM

That is not the plot of the novella.

Posted by: Chuck C at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (aViol)

192 ||They used to show "Shock Waves" all the time on Channel 36 late night. That was nazi aquatic zombies vs. one of the Carradines.||

Carradine was in the first Nazi Zombie movie as well, if I'm not mistaken. 1943 (!) I reviewed it about the time Dead Snow came out:

https://bit.ly/3izaWVi

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (dhFCT)

193 runner: the impression I have is that the problem was, FDR didn't give a shit about what Germany was doing, until I believe Churchill scared the shit out of him about Hitler.

I also read recently that FDR was scared of America's involvement in WW2 looking too much like a "save the Jews war." Such an asshole elitist pig, FDR was.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (L2ZTs)

194 So far, ( and as said war has just started) reading Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Germans were gullible because they wanted to be seems my take of the authors experience.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (Cxk7w)

195 Int them old days, the Jews were the villains. Across the board. In folktales, fables, operas, plays. For two thousand years. That is a long time.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (V13WU)

196 What started my war movie list, talk of a prequel of a Master and Commander new movie.
Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:43 PM (Cxk7w)

Will it have women in it ?

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:47 PM (V13WU)

197 Germans knew. Russians knew. Chinese know. People in our society know - perhaps not things as horrible, but they know. The power of the human mind to compartmentalize is frightening.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:47 PM (xEIoY)

198 moviegique, Be a Nazi, was the message of the time. If you weren't you had no job. I take exception that you see the realization of what was happening as virtue signaling rather than an awareness. I offer no forgiveness to any of them for the too little, too late. Go watch "The Book Thief"

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:47 PM (GOz58)

199 I'm just glad Hitler was an impatient psycho. Germany's super weapons program was no joke.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:47 PM (2DOZq)

200 Remember the main events of the Holocaust (for German Jews, I mean) - deportation to death camps, especially - occurred after Allied journalists or diplomats were no longer around, well into the war. Of course there was no press or diplomatic access in the east, especially in Poland or the USSR, where most of the killing was done, by shooting, in 1941-1942.

Also important to consider that one of the main reasons so much (western) European Jewry fell victim/did not attempt to flee the Nazis was something the Allied intelligence sincerely shared: a disbelief that it could really be something as unimaginable and horrific as systematic extermination.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (OTzUX)

201 And my point is, total war is justified.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (xEIoY)

202 Aetius and Chuck C, hmmm.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (L2ZTs)

203 This is the subject we need to think about, mask-wearing is the fcuking equivalent of wearing the yellow star. I will brook no argument. The people we are dealing with are latter day nazis and they want us dead. Nevermind that when we are gone the ignorant evil bastards will kill and eat each other. I am not willing to die needlessly because I was not paying attention. Pay attention, people.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (0OP+5)

204 I've said before that if the Nazis never existed, Hollywood would have *had* to invent them. They were straight out of casting central in hell.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:44 PM (L2ZTs)

Wrong Steve. They were men. Just like we have today. You are making the same damn mistake all these fuckers are making with Antifa. You have historical precedent that men can and will be monsters if given the chance, but you are mystifying and making them unbelievable to yourself- so you are less likely to see the common elements with the jackholes today.

The point is that there are ALWAYS elements of Nazi ideology running around. Everyone should learn it. Realize that it was not 'uniquely evil' it was just fucking evil that men do.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (csEWM)

205 Vmom Russell Crowe is way older than Capt Jack Aubrey after the Napoleonic wars ended. They would need younger actors.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (Cxk7w)

206 Aetius, hmmm.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:49 PM (L2ZTs)

207 the impression I have is that the problem was, FDR didn't give a shit about what Germany was doing, until I believe Churchill scared the shit out of him about Hitler.

I also read recently that FDR was scared of America's involvement in WW2 looking too much like a "save the Jews war." Such an asshole elitist pig, FDR was.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (L2ZTs)

I believe the feeling was hey it's just the Jews, we don't like them anyway, why do we want to upset hitler over them , so why bother.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:49 PM (V13WU)

208 McCartney sucks, at least the post 66 doppleganger anyway. Silly Love Songs is a war crime.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (xEIoY)

209 runner, exactly.

Mexico was taking in Jewish refugees, for God's sake. America was not and would not.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (L2ZTs)

210 Skip @ 175, thanks. Will get Mrs. E to snag that one.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (0OP+5)

211 What is appalling are incidents like S.S. St. Louis. The diplomats who knew and did nothing. The countries and their leaders who were on the outside and who either refused or did not care to believe.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:42 PM (V13WU)

It has to be remembered that something like the Holocaust just was not part of anyone's mental inventory at the time. Until Kristallnacht, or around that time, even most German Jews didn't believe it would come to that, which is partly why there were still so many in Germany on the eve of WWII. Then, too, many countries were still feeling the effects of the Depression, and bringing in a lot of indigent refugees (the Nazis confiscated most of the property of those emigrating) was not necessarily a politically popular move.

All that said, stories like that of the St. Louis are very heartbreaking, and I have to think at least some of the people involved in that refusal were very remorseful after the fact.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 07:51 PM (Vgw1E)

212 What started my war movie list, talk of a prequel of a Master and Commander new movie.
Posted by: Skip

Just finished a book about the founding of the US Navy up to the War of 1812, Master and Commander time frame. One of the things that led to war was the British impressment of American (and anybody really) seamen in the merchant fleet.

The book said at the time the American and British accents were indistinguishable. Which I think is weird.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:51 PM (dmfmx)

213 I believe Churchill had to convince FDR, "it's not just Jews, these people are insane. They want to enslave everybody and everything for their bullshit pagan narrative. Would you please help us fight them here before you have to fight them there!"

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:51 PM (L2ZTs)

214 Such an asshole elitist pig, FDR was.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:46 PM (L2ZTs)

FDR was an evil man

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (oEn12)

215 That old man in the picture. I would have both his kneecaps.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (GOz58)

216 "Who Goes Nazi?" from the 1941 Harper's magazine is a classic read.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (vuisn)

217 Vmom Russell Crowe is way older than Capt Jack Aubrey after the Napoleonic wars ended. They would need younger actors.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:48 PM (Cxk7w)

this I can't agree with, tell that to Magnum PI. I agree they waited way too l ong. it is hard to feel sorry for these guys, they were talking about a sequel the day the movie landed.

Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (gJfTA)

218 Word of the death camps were leaking out to the Allies Leadeship by 1942. They were ignored or purposely surpressed

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (Irn0L)

219 I thought it was excellent. What was the alleged problem with it?
Posted by: Just a side note

-
The last 20 minutes, you've got multiple Cruises and multiple spaceships doing different things at the same time and place and then another Cruise lives happily ever after even though other Cruise died with Horatius defending his fathers' ashes at the bridge.

Although, I pretty much liked the movie (especially when there were multiple Victorias and Julias and I was imagining the possibilities). The action sequences were good.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (d9FiS)

220 Nazis?

>I was hoping for a romantic comedy like "What Women What."

Posted by: Dr. Bone at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (2k5ha)

221 ||Be a Nazi, was the message of the time. If you weren't you had no job. I take exception that you see the realization of what was happening as virtue signaling rather than an awareness.||

A movie that has you walking out saying, "Those darned Nazis! They were so bad!" can be fun but it's not The Very Serious Art that, e.g., Striped Pajamas was hailed as.

It's pandering. And if the last year hasn't taught us all that we're much, MUCH, MUUUUUCH closer to that than most of us realized (excepting Michael Malice, apparently), I shudder to think what comes next.

||I offer no forgiveness to any of them for the too little, too late. Go watch "The Book Thief"||

Saw it. Should've used it for my "hate commies" link, but I'd forgotten that aspect of it.

https://moviegique.com/2014/01/the-book-thief/

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (dhFCT)

222 In RaFotTR President FDR tried to talk Adolf out of aggression a few times after Czechs were given up. The NY Slymes were all for appeasement.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:53 PM (Cxk7w)

223 At the same time, once FDR got into the war and Germany was defeated?

FDR wanted *all* of Germany's industrial class and facilities liquidated 100%, forever. He would have turned the whole country into a permanently dependent welfare state.

Can't help but wonder how things would look today if that plan was followed through with.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:54 PM (L2ZTs)

224 Word of the death camps were leaking out to the Allies Leadeship by 1942. They were ignored or purposely surpressed

==

Yes. The State department did its best.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:54 PM (V13WU)

225 220 Nazis?

>I was hoping for a romantic comedy like "What Women What."
Posted by: Dr. Bone at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (2k5ha)

Watch 'Hitch'- you'll be screaming for Nazis in about 20 minutes.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 12, 2021 07:55 PM (csEWM)

226 199 I'm just glad Hitler was an impatient psycho. Germany's super weapons program was no joke.
Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 07:47 PM (2DOZq)

-----------

Not so sure about that.

Posted by: W. Heisenberg at June 12, 2021 07:55 PM (fLVm1)

227 Is that a Dead Kennedys flag behind that delightful Aryan cutie?

Posted by: jbspry at June 12, 2021 07:55 PM (ATe9j)

228 218 Word of the death camps were leaking out to the Allies Leadeship by 1942. They were ignored or purposely surpressed
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:52 PM (Irn0L)

Were the Germans allowing many Jews to leave after 41? The Holocaust Museum page says, "no".

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (ONvIw)

229 I believe the feeling was hey it's just the Jews, we don't like them anyway, why do we want to upset hitler over them , so why bother.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 07:49 PM (V13WU)

look at the Brits and the movie Remains of the Day. I realize a movie is not necessarily historical reality. In fact, the closer you get to Hollyweird the chance of touching history is next to nil. But that one movie had a lot of truth in it.

Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (gJfTA)

230 My father was in Europe during the end of WWII but his field of study was the Pacific theater. He said the Nazis were bad but didn't compare to the Japanese.

Posted by: Megthered at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (B3Dr0)

231 Blutarski never thought about accents but with 30 years separation probably not much different. Movies by rights of colonial days should have British actors.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (Cxk7w)

232 FDR wanted *all* of Germany's industrial class and facilities liquidated 100%, forever. He would have turned the whole country into a permanently dependent welfare state.

Actually no that was not FDR's plan. It was the plan of Henry Morgenthau, Jr. (1934 - 1945) Sec of The Treasury. And FDR ignored him

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (Irn0L)

233 FDR could not have accomplished a German state of dependence, Russia struggled with same with harsher methods. Odd that Merkel and Islam will turn the trick.

Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:57 PM (xEIoY)

234 I probably have distant German cousins of mine who killed more distant Jewish cousins.
Posted by: Baldy

Just don't talk politics or religion at Thanksgiving.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (d9FiS)

235 Nevergiveup, really? I thought FDR supported the Morgenthau plan and that it took (among other things) Truman to make sure it was abandoned.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (L2ZTs)

236 Were the Germans allowing many Jews to leave after 41? The Holocaust Museum page says, "no".
Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 07:56 PM (ONvIw)

No they weren't. The existence of the death camps leaked out from other sources inside of germany and occupied territories

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (Irn0L)

237 Just finished a book about the founding of the US Navy up to the War of 1812
-------------
Flying my War of 1812 flag as we speak. The original Star Spangled Banner. Chest out, crisp salute!

Posted by: dartist at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (+ya+t)

238 moviegique, once again I say you missed you missed the art in the movie being the irony and I will stop now.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (GOz58)

239 Movies by rights of colonial days should have British actors.
Posted by: Skip

Yes. The book said Americans impressed would claim they were American citizens, but they sounded just like the British tar. So no go. The Brits didn't single out Americans for impressment. They impressed everybody they could.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:59 PM (dmfmx)

240 Nevergiveup, really? I thought FDR supported the Morgenthau plan and that it took (among other things) Truman to make sure it was abandoned.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:58 PM (L2ZTs)

Well FDR's leadership style was to let his subordinates disagree over things and fight amongst themselves for his own benefit. But he never supported the Morgenthau plan and in private thought it stupid

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 08:00 PM (Irn0L)

241 FDR wanted *all* of Germany's industrial class and facilities liquidated 100%, forever. He would have turned the whole country into a permanently dependent welfare state.

Can't help but wonder how things would look today if that plan was followed through with.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 07:54 PM (L2ZTs)

My educated guess: humanitarian disaster coupled with sociopolitical implosion and most likely followed by a Communist takeover of the whole country. Even as it was, large parts of Germany were in dire straits for a year or two after the war. There were cases of out-and-out starvation, at the very worst. Trying to actually implement the Morgenthau plan might well have a resulted in a body count comparable to the Holocaust.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 08:00 PM (Vgw1E)

242 The principle of Gleischaultung or "coordination" in english, was a big one. I would say there's a whole lot of coordination going on right now in this country. You're soaking in it.

How often do you lower your voice, maybe look around briefly, to see who might overhear, before discussing certain topics with (whom you hope) are trusted individuals? Or just bite your tongue on certain subjects, not worth the risk bringing it up. Could lose your job!

Sound familiar? It should.

Posted by: Common Tater at June 12, 2021 08:00 PM (Ejylv)

243 Flying my War of 1812 flag as we speak. The original Star Spangled Banner. Chest out, crisp salute!
Posted by: dartist

Preble and Decatur were amazing, and I'd never heard of them.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 08:01 PM (dmfmx)

244 According to Holocaust museum :In 1939-40, more than 50% of all immigrants to the United States identified themselves as Jewish, but this is likely a low number.
Sure there should have been more. But by the time we knew the true extent, Germans were denying emigration.

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 08:01 PM (ONvIw)

245 Patrick Obrien in the series has impressment of sailors often.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 08:01 PM (Cxk7w)

246 The actual death camps (Aktion Reinhard) didn't begin operations until early 1942.

The KL camps began almost as soon as Hitler took power in 1933. They were two separate systems.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:01 PM (fLVm1)

247 Nevergiveup and Dr T, hmmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:01 PM (L2ZTs)

248
..Hitler made Mussolini make the trains run on time.

Posted by: klaftern at June 12, 2021 07:13 PM (r4sI4)

Per Richard Feinman, Enrico Fermi claimed there was no such thing as an Italian train that was online

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:02 PM (ySM85)

249 The death camps were outside Germany. The worst of the detention (concentration) camps inside Austria and Germany, towards the end, took on some characteristics of the death camps, but were never industrial murder operations.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 08:02 PM (OTzUX)

250 ||238 moviegique, once again I say you missed you missed the art in the movie being the irony and I will stop now.||

No worries, Ben. I thought the ironic ending was basically inevitable from scene one, and I consider that manipulative. No reason anyone has to agree with me.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:03 PM (dhFCT)

251 I had a German grandmother who lived through WW2. BUT she was born in Milwaukee and lived there her whole life before she finally moved out to Sun City the last few years.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 12, 2021 08:04 PM (q3gwH)

252 You know who else is a Nazi?

Mediaite
@Mediaite
CNN's @Acosta is utterly unsparing in his criticism of Fox News on Mediaite's The Interview - dismissing the network as a "bullsh*t factory" and describing Tucker Carlson as sounding like a "race-baiting tyrant."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 08:04 PM (d9FiS)

253 ontime

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:04 PM (ySM85)

254 The death camps were outside Germany.

===

The Nuremberg decrees were inside Germany.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:05 PM (V13WU)

255 241 FDR wanted *all* of Germany's industrial class and facilities liquidated 100%, forever. He would have turned the whole country into a permanently dependent welfare state.

Can't help but wonder how things would look today if that plan was followed through with.
------

That was the "Morgenthau Plan", after two world wars, the idea was to turn Germany into a pastoral state. That way they couldn't wage war again, as it was assumed they would try again.

I'd say there are similar concepts applied to the US, to prevent our ability to wage war, too. Detroit was one of the, if not the wealthiest cities on the planet at one time, including through WWII, it still looks worse than Hiroshima ever did, most likely.

Posted by: Common Tater at June 12, 2021 08:05 PM (Ejylv)

256 "It doesn't have the compelling aspect of�Shoah"

I've never met anyone who's watched this from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, I've met several people who've CLAIMED to have seen the whole thing. But every last one of them was a liar.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at June 12, 2021 08:05 PM (ifIJ2)

257 Common Tater, I have used "Gleichschaltung" here for months, referring to the disgusting and ridiculous descent of institutions and the public square into idiotic racism and the like. But ours is if anything more heinous than that of Germany's in 1933-35 - the American Gleichschaltung is self-actuated, not a result of a political monoculture backed by increasingly concrete levers of intimidation.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 08:05 PM (OTzUX)

258 McCartney sucks, at least the post 66 doppleganger anyway. Silly Love Songs is a war crime.
Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (xEIoY)

Saw a thing where McCartney was the number one solo artist who left a band. And Michael Jackson was number two. It made my head fvcking explode.

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (KuDNQ)

259 Is now a good time to talk about vaccination passports ?

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (V13WU)

260 123 The absolutely stupefyingly idiotic equation of "nationalism" with "evil Nazi-like stuff" would kind of negate any value in to the movie, to me.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 07:29 PM (OTzUX)

This is a good point. Another gripe I have with most Nazi related media material is that they focus almost exclusively on the genocidal aspect and not the rest of the broad-based dysfunction and general incompetence that destroyed most of Europe. Jewish advocacy groups love to say Never Again--and for good reason--but covering up how they did what they did and selectively eulogizing the victims of that regime is the best way to ensure that it does happen again.

Posted by: CppThis at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (8h1h1)

261 moviegique, Thanks for the fun discussion.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (GOz58)

262 William Shirer explained the US immigration laws were tighten up in late 20s so Jews had hard time getting to US, many got to low countries but that wasn't far enough to keep them alive for long. Seems 1938 was about end of getting out alive for Jews in Germany.

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (Cxk7w)

263 I'm listening to the Depeche Mode song "Never Let Me Down Again" and LOLing again over the wee car in it, the BMW Isetta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snILjFUkk_A

One car dealership I knew had one above the door as a sort of mascot.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (Dc2NZ)

264 The actual death camps (Aktion Reinhard) didn't begin operations until early 1942.

The KL camps began almost as soon as Hitler took power in 1933. They were two separate systems.
Posted by: Cicero

All of that is in the miniseries "Holocaust". There's even a segment with Hoess, the Auschwitz Kommandant, discussing its creation and purpose with a couple other guys. They even have a short scene with a German chemist from IG Farben (I think) demonstrating Zyklon-B to a Nazi. It's a fumigant (you know, rodents....) Nazi asks if it works on people. Chemist replies, with a sly smirk, something like "I wouldn't know that". Yeah, come on.

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (KAi1n)

265 McCartney sucks, at least the post 66 doppleganger anyway. Silly Love Songs is a war crime.
Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (xEIoY)

---------

I will see your Silly Love Songs and raise you Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas Time.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (fLVm1)

266 Oh sure guys, start pissing all over McCartney after I've gone and gotten his first solo album, Flaming Pie *and* Memory Almost Full.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:09 PM (L2ZTs)

267 (I have Ram and Band On The Run, too.)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:09 PM (L2ZTs)

268 ||256 "It doesn't have the compelling aspect of Shoah"

I've never met anyone who's watched this from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, I've met several people who've CLAIMED to have seen the whole thing. But every last one of them was a liar.
Posted by: Rusty ||

As I mentioned, my step-father watched it TWICE in the theater and once again when it played on TV.

And after sitting through both the 3 1/2 hour "Last of the Unjust" and the 4 1/2 hour "The Four Sisters," I can believe it.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (dhFCT)

269 267 (I have Ram and Band On The Run, too.)
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:09 PM (L2ZTs)

---------

Steve, this level of self-criticism isn't necessary at the HQ.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (fLVm1)

270 As for Wonderful Christmastime... yes it's horrible. But I attribute that to McCartney's laziness and pot habit of the time.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (L2ZTs)

271 I will see your Silly Love Songs and raise you Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas Time.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (fLVm1)

His Christmas song will play on a loop at the camps. Fucking horrible.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (Vzux+)

272 The book said at the time the American and British accents were indistinguishable. Which I think is weird.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 07:51 PM (dmfmx)

Thirty years is not a long time for dialect shift. Especially for areas with regular contact.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (ySM85)

273 Would love to see the Final Account

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 08:11 PM (Cxk7w)

274 ||261 moviegique, Thanks for the fun discussion.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 12, 2021 08:06 PM (GOz5

||

Likewise Ben!

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:11 PM (dhFCT)

275 His Christmas song will play on a loop at the camps. Fucking horrible.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (Vzux+)

---------

The most inane tribute to Xmas ever written.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:11 PM (fLVm1)

276 Well, the only legitimate time you can be a Nazi is if your trying to escape the Nazi's.
Check the film Europa, Europa for an example.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at June 12, 2021 08:12 PM (rjcBu)

277 I will see your Silly Love Songs and raise you Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas Time.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (fLVm1)

Band On The Run for total shlock.

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:12 PM (KuDNQ)

278 All Wings songs were pop nonsense

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 08:12 PM (Cxk7w)

279 Humiliation, dehumanization of Jewish citizens in nazi Germany began before the death camps were built. But the extermination, the final solution was never not part of the program. They just did it progressively, to see if there would be any repercussions.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:12 PM (V13WU)

280 I should probably address this:

||123 The absolutely stupefyingly idiotic equation of "nationalism" with "evil Nazi-like stuff" would kind of negate any value in to the movie, to me.||

The movie does not do this. The movie DOES show this being done.

We can speculate that Holland agreed, and we could argue its presence in the film reflects some degree of agreement, but it would speculative.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:13 PM (dhFCT)

281 You'd be surprised what a lot of solo artists think of their own repertoir.

Paul Simon has a boatload of S&G and other songs he's said he never wants to hear or perform ever again, and John Lennon himself implied he didn't really like Imagine very much anymore by the time he passed away. (He realized that people hate being preached to, especially by wealthy celebrities.)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:13 PM (L2ZTs)

282 His Christmas song will play on a loop at the camps. Fucking horrible.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM

Not in the camps; In Hell.

Posted by: Chuck C at June 12, 2021 08:13 PM (aViol)

283 "Silly Love Songs" is a great story though. It was catchy.

The reason McCartney wrote it, Lennon was interviewed by somebody and was talking shit, saying "Paul isn't doing anything, he's just writing silly love songs."

So McCartney writes and releases "Silly Love Songs" as a rejoinder, and it goes to #1 LOL!!! That had to stick in Lennon's craw. The boy had fried his brain a long time ago, it wasn't like he was tearing up the charts with anything listenable.

"Having a Wonderful Christmas Time", that is unforgivable. I agree with that.

Posted by: Common Tater at June 12, 2021 08:13 PM (Ejylv)

284 yes, you should not be a nazi,

however,

in fairness,

they did believe in their country, which is more than the democrats

the did decide to deomonstrate that in some unfortunate ways that I neither agree with or believe are acceptbl

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:13 PM (4Jold)

285 Better turn this off before the ONT shows up
Have a good night everyone

Posted by: Skip at June 12, 2021 08:14 PM (Cxk7w)

286 Speaking of immigration, I have a copy of a letter written from Prague to some distant relatives in L.A. asking for help emigrating to the U.S. (I've traced all the names involved and the relations are legit.) The guy who wrote was a lawyer, his wife was a doctor I think, so they were educated and had skills. (A Czech lawyer would probably be smart enough to become self-sufficient in America doing something.) From what my father told me, my relatives declined to help because of financial circumstances here and no one really knew what was soon to happen. Very soon. The letter was dated March 9, 1939....

Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 08:14 PM (KAi1n)

287 What transpired over the last 15 months should be a never again for us. I wonder how many realize that.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (V13WU)

288 I like Wonderful Christmastime. Sue me.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (Vgw1E)

289 Is now a good time to talk about vaccination passports ?
Posted by: r

barcode tattoos are the way to go, or implanted rfid

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (4Jold)

290 Common, yup. The story behind Silly Love Songs is epic.

And, here's a song of Sir Paul dissing allayouse:
;-)

https://youtu.be/0XjxQVCDepA

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (L2ZTs)

291 "It doesn't have the compelling aspect of Shoah"

I've never met anyone who's watched this from beginning to end.

Don't get me wrong, I've met several people who've CLAIMED to have seen the whole thing. But every last one of them was a liar.
Posted by: Rusty Nail

I've watched it all but not at one sitting. Much of it is slow, sort of a Hannah Arendt banality of evil thing. I remember, a long sequence of a train engineer driving his train. In earlier days his trains were filled with Jews. Still, watching him drive his train past trees, fields, and buildings is less than compelling.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (d9FiS)

292 Say what you will about the nazis, but they were real patriots !

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:15 PM (V13WU)

293 Kids and I are going to the Auschwitz exhibit at Union Station in July. From everything I am reading it is a very very sobering experience. I'm glad the kids are going with me. Maybe this will wake their asses up.

Posted by: Jewells45 at June 12, 2021 08:16 PM (nxdel)

294 @285
About 40 percent of the country tops.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at June 12, 2021 08:16 PM (rjcBu)

295 The letter was dated March 9, 1939....

-

wow

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:16 PM (V13WU)

296 Trump responded via a statement Saturday from his Save America PAC:

"This was a quote by the President of France. He and many other Leaders before him, in France and throughout Europe, were ripping off the United States like never before. We were treated very unfairly with horrible trade deals, and paying for a large portion of their defense.

"They were taking advantage of the United States and therefore, of course, they like Biden because now they will be allowed to return to their old ways of ripping off our Country. If I were a leader of these countries, I too would like Biden far better than President Trump.

"They will now get very rich off the United States just like they have in the past until a change is made. I am for AMERICA FIRST!"

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 12, 2021 08:17 PM (Irn0L)

297 Nazi Germany gobbled up a whole country and not one came to its aid.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (V13WU)

298 Say what you will about the nazis, but they were real patriots !
Posted by: r

murders > treacherous murders?

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (4Jold)

299 ||Paul Simon has a boatload of S&G and other songs he's said he never wants to hear or perform ever again,||

S&G is so of its time, it's groovy. Actually Simon's 70s albums were also ultra-70s.

||and John Lennon himself implied he didn't really like Imagine very much anymore by the time he passed away.||

The "Imagine" album is one of his better ones, regardless of the title song.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (dhFCT)

300 Nazi Germany gobbled up a whole country and not one came to its aid.
Posted by: r

austria?

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (4Jold)

301 His Christmas song will play on a loop at the camps. Fucking horrible.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 12, 2021 08:10 PM (Vzux+)

The most inane tribute to Xmas ever written.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:11 PM (fLVm1)

George Michael did a song about giving his "heart" to a dude in a rest stop men's room, only to have the guy disappear on him, so he swears he won't boff anyone next year unless the person is going to stick around (pun intended) longer.

Having a wonderful Christmas time is Handel in comparison.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (5ieoM)

302 moviegique, there was something compelling about angry Lennon, that's for sure. Good grief that guy could carry a grudge.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (L2ZTs)

303 Does Trump still have a website ? I did not know that.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (V13WU)

304 I was my privilege to have a high school classmate whose parents were under the thumb of the Nazis. One was a survivor of a camp. They came and spoke to us at school many times about their experiences but even with their eyewitness accounts, it was monumentally difficult for us to absorb the level of horrors these folks experienced.

Let alone approach understanding the vile folks that caused it all.

Mrs. Barbara Turkeltaub
https://is.gd/MX09CI

Posted by: Tonypete at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (Rvt88)

305 Nazi Germany gobbled up a whole country and not one came to its aid.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (V13WU)

----------

To be fair, Austria was kind of a poor excuse for a country.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (fLVm1)

306 Cicero @ 175- Starting in July I will no longer working on Sundays. First time in 10 years I will see (and hear) the Christmas, and Easter, music at church. And incidentally not have the pastor preach the 8th commandment directly at me. That Commandment that takes up four! verses.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (0OP+5)

307 What transpired over the last 15 months should be a never again for us. I wonder how many realize that.
Posted by: runner
----

[points]

Conspiracy theorist!

[smothers]

Posted by: MSM at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (bPH26)

308 austria?
Posted by: confederatefifth

Australia, dummy, geez

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 12, 2021 08:20 PM (a9DMy)

309 |Paul Simon has a boatload of S&G and other songs he's said he never wants to hear or perform ever again,||

We have something in common.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at June 12, 2021 08:20 PM (Vzux+)

310 To be fair, Austria was kind of a poor excuse for a country.
Posted by: Cicero

austrian is the ebnics of europe

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:20 PM (4Jold)

311 Having a wonderful Christmas time is Handel in comparison.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (5ieoM)

-----------

Touche

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:20 PM (fLVm1)

312 Australia, dummy, geez
Posted by: B

bet you do not know how to speak asutralian either

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:21 PM (4Jold)

313 Good friend's mother got out of Germany, small town in the Rhineland, in 1938. Very late. Of course not all extended family made it, but immediate family did.

Which reminds me of a stunning, hilarious, but also sickening anecdote concerning this woman (now passed away). Just after Trump was elected, one of her kids (the idiot one, at least when it comes to anything like this) actually said to her mom that she was worried about some kind of Nazism rising in the US (this gives you an idea of what a misinformed marinated bot she is).

Mother: "Shelley, I LIVED IN NAZI GERMANY. THE BROWNSHIRTS DID TORCHLIGHT MARCHES DOWN OUR STREET. WE GOT OUT AT THE LAST MINUTE, YOUR OTHER RELATIVES WERE ALL MURDERED BY THE NAZIS. STOP IT. THIS IS NOTHING LIKE THAT, NONE OF THAT IS GOING OT HAPPEN!"

That such an exchange could even occur in the US is a measure of the degradation.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 12, 2021 08:21 PM (OTzUX)

314 Hitler annexed Australia?

He hated those kangaroos.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (fLVm1)

315 ||302 moviegique, there was something compelling about angry Lennon, that's for sure. Good grief that guy could carry a grudge.||

Steel & Glass, I Found Out, Gimme Some Truth, without going anywhere near "Some Time In New York City," which no one should.

I have a fondness for "Ram", myself, even if the critics hated it. And the public. And the rest of the ex-Beatles.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (dhFCT)

316 297 Nazi Germany gobbled up a whole country and not one came to its aid.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (V13WU)

More than one, I'd say. And they built their little economic bubble on geopolitical piracy, with the same result as the pirate republics once the rest of the world got wise to the game.

Another of those "what actually happened" things whose absence of public discourse irritates me.

Posted by: CppThis at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (8h1h1)

317 From what my father told me, my relatives declined to help because of financial circumstances here and no one really knew what was soon to happen. Very soon. The letter was dated March 9, 1939....
Posted by: SFGoth at June 12, 2021 08:14 PM (KAi1n)

My husband's family had this experience as well. They didn't want to give up everything, and they didn't expect it to last. They, in Europe, didn't know the enormity of what happened and I know my in-laws had no idea. On my side, my grandmother's sister had fled to the Soviet Union and survived the war with her two children. Her husband fought with the Russians.

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (ONvIw)

318 Hitler annexed Australia?

He hated those kangaroos.
Posted by: Cicero

he went there to get the fucking pandas because they were half breeds

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (4Jold)

319 there was something compelling about angry Lennon, that's for sure. Good grief that guy could carry a grudge.
Posted by: qdpsteve

Maybe he's related to Mrs. Wrecks.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (d9FiS)

320 To be fair, Paul Simon is an artist and his range of music is impressive.

OTOH, he was a complete disaster as a playwright.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:23 PM (fLVm1)

321 moviegique, I like Ram too. :-)
It's another member of the club of albums and movies that everyone hated at first, and now everyone claims to love.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:23 PM (L2ZTs)

322 To be fair, Austria was kind of a poor excuse for a country.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (fLVm1)

Czechoslovakia. Austria was Anschluss Osterreichs.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:23 PM (V13WU)

323 297 Nazi Germany gobbled up a whole country and not one came to its aid.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:18 PM (V13WU)

Do you think we'd go to war over Taiwan or Vietnam or even Korea?

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 08:24 PM (ONvIw)

324 || To be fair, Paul Simon is an artist and his range of music is impressive.

OTOH, he was a complete disaster as a playwright.||

I liked "One Trick Pony," too. But I didn't see "The Capeman".

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:24 PM (dhFCT)

325 I've always thought of Austria as Germany's even-more-tightly-wound-in-the-stomach-and-genitalia twin.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:24 PM (L2ZTs)

326 Hitler annexed Australia?

He hated those kangaroos.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (fLVm1)

Little known fact, "put another shrimp on the Barbie" was NOT originally about seafood.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (5ieoM)

327 I have a fondness for "Ram", myself, even if the critics hated it. And the public. And the rest of the ex-Beatles.
Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (dhFCT)
---

I have always liked that album. It's like licking a Peter Max painting.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (Dc2NZ)

328 Do you think we'd go to war over Taiwan or Vietnam or even Korea?
Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 08:24 PM (ONvIw)

---------

Kamala or Sleepy Joe?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (fLVm1)

329 I calculate that between Czechoslovakia, Poland, and France, Germany could have picked two, sued for peace, and gotten away with it. But it wasn't their style...

Posted by: CppThis at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (8h1h1)

330

That's all rubbish. Can we get back to what's really important? Magnificent Nazi titties!

Posted by: Large Hardon Collider at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (Zx3Bu)

331 fact, "put another shrimp on the Barbie" was NOT originally about seafood.
Posted by: B

yeah, however, the fact that it originally and until the 70s referred to aboriginies is something they are not proud about

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (4Jold)

332 All Hail Eris, yup.

Don't forget the pic on the back cover of two beetles fornicating.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (L2ZTs)

333 Someone posted a neat image on a thread recently. Something like:

If you ever wondered what you would have done in Nazi Germany, now you know.

Posted by: Moron Robbie is a bridge at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (u9fwt)

334 More than one, I'd say....
Posted by: CppThis at June 12, 2021 08:22 PM (8h1h1)

After no one did anything, even though they had treaties, nazi Germany got an appetite.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (V13WU)

335 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)
Posted by: SFGoth

No, but they assisted the Arabs. Early on, the Egyptian air force flew Bf-109 Messerschmidts.
Hitler admired Islam (although Hitler was a pagan and didn't really like any religions) because he thought it was a "warrior" religion.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative.....Living on the prison planet at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (tjZg/)

336 Kamala or Sleepy Joe?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (fLVm1
No way in hell, and they know it. Europe is breathing a sigh of relief over this alone.

Posted by: CN at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (ONvIw)

337 ||It's another member of the club of albums and movies that everyone hated at first, and now everyone claims to love.||

"Band on the Run" was such a monster album but "Ram" always seemed more heart-felt to me. I like rough edges.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (dhFCT)

338 I've always thought of Austria as Germany's even-more-tightly-wound-in-the-stomach-and-genitalia twin.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:24 PM (L2ZTs)

----------

It's interesting that the most sadistic Nazis were almost all Austrians. Make of that what you will.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (fLVm1)

339 Let's be honest, the all-time, never-to-be-topped best movie about Nazis after WW2 is...

The Producers, 1968.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:27 PM (L2ZTs)

340 Does anyone know if, after WW2, any Nazis/military officers assisted Israel in any way? (Whether it's penance or whatever.)
Posted by: S

they have done a good job holding the germans over the barrel since.

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:27 PM (4Jold)

341 I'm sure we can all agree that "Iron Sky" was an excellent documentary.

Posted by: callsign claymore at June 12, 2021 08:27 PM (1+gbY)

342 It's interesting that the most sadistic Nazis were almost all Austrians. Make of that what you will.
Posted by: Cicero

Austrians - We're #2 so we try harder?

Posted by: Tonypete at June 12, 2021 08:27 PM (Rvt88)

343 I liked Ringo's solo hits more than any Lennon or McCartney had.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 08:28 PM (2DOZq)

344 ||I have always liked that album. It's like licking a Peter Max painting.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 12, 2021 08:25 PM (Dc2NZ)||

Is this where I ask about your onlyfans? ;-)

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:28 PM (dhFCT)

345 ||343 I liked Ringo's solo hits more than any Lennon or McCartney had.

Oh, my, my!

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:28 PM (dhFCT)

346 If the imprisoned without bail or indictment January 6 'Isurrectionists' end up hung with piano wire it wouldn't surprise me in the least. That's what they WANT to do

They're socialists. They thirst for blood.

Posted by: torabora at June 12, 2021 08:29 PM (Y274z)

347 moviegique, yup.

I can also really understand Paul being self-indulgent (more than he should have been at least, perhaps) on his first several solo and Wings albums, once he finally didn't have to run everything past John, plus he really truly was depressed about the Beatles breaking up.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:29 PM (L2ZTs)

348 341 I'm sure we can all agree that "Iron Sky" was an excellent documentary.
Posted by: callsign claymore at June 12, 2021 08:27 PM (1+gbY)

My kind of film.

Posted by: CppThis at June 12, 2021 08:29 PM (8h1h1)

349 It's interesting that the most sadistic Nazis were almost all Austrians. Make of that what you will.
Posted by: Cicero

Ukrainian Nazis make them look like puppies.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 08:29 PM (2DOZq)

350 It's interesting that the most sadistic Nazis were almost all Austrians. Make of that what you will.
Posted by: Cicero

Ukrainian Nazis make them look like puppies.
Posted by: J

similar to how the craziest guy in the gang is the short wiry guy that has to show everybody he is crazy and not to be fuckd with; so he does not get passed around in jail how he was befroe.

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:30 PM (4Jold)

351 Huh. I never Biden was in a movie. He looks remarkably lucid in that top pic, compared to today.

Posted by: skh.pcola at June 12, 2021 08:31 PM (K0zzZ)

352 Ukrainian Nazis make them look like puppies.
Posted by: J

in fairness, their women are hot, even biden agrees

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:31 PM (4Jold)

353 351 Huh. I never Biden was in a movie. He looks remarkably lucid in that top pic, compared to today.
Posted by: skh.pcola at June 12, 2021 08:31 PM (K0zzZ)

---------

It's motion capture technology. See, Gollum, LOTR.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:32 PM (fLVm1)

354 It's motion capture technology. See, Gollum, LOTR.
Posted by: Cicero

thought it was claymatin

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (MMtX5)

355 Hitler admired Islam (although Hitler was a pagan and didn't really like any religions) because he thought it was a "warrior" religion.
Posted by: Bozo Conservative.....Living on the prison planet at June 12, 2021 08:26 PM (tjZg/)

I really doubt Hitler admired Islam. Anymore than he admired shintoists. They were temporary allies of convenience.

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (KuDNQ)

356 Movies linked in the top parargaph:

Striped PJs
Triump of the Will
Jojo Rabbit
The Reader
Ilsa She-Wolf
1945
Innocents
Diplomacy
Bent
Wizards

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (dhFCT)

357 Last of the Unjust
Sound of Music
Four Sisters
Schindler
Art of the Steal
Django
Zookeeper's Wife
Downfall
Dead Snow
Overlord
Revenge of the Zombies
Shock Wave

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (dhFCT)

358 I (finally) watched the original DasBoot. It is odd to watch German made WWII movies.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (V13WU)

359 runner, yup.

The theme of Germany's own WW2 movies seems to be "look, we know we fcuked up royal, but look how frustrated and desperate we were."

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:34 PM (L2ZTs)

360 ||I can also really understand Paul being self-indulgent (more than he should have been at least, perhaps) ||

They all were. George's 3-disc "debut" and John's "primal scream" album and I think Ringo went full country.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:34 PM (dhFCT)

361 McCartney sucks, at least the post 66 doppleganger anyway. Silly Love Songs is a war crime.
Posted by: Too Bad Costa Rica Sucks at June 12, 2021 07:50 PM (xEIoY)

---------

I will see your Silly Love Songs and raise you Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas Time.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:08 PM (fLVm1)

Did you ever hear his insanely twatty coda to "It's So Easy" on his cut on a Rave On Buddy Holly tribute album? It sounds like something that blackfaced piece of shit Virginia governor would do while imitating "darkies". Unforgivable.

Posted by: Captain Hate Won't Forget Ashli Babbitt at June 12, 2021 08:34 PM (y7DUB)

362 I really doubt Hitler admired Islam. Anymore than he admired shintoists. They were temporary allies of convenience.
Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:33 PM (KuDNQ)

----------

Muslims hated the Jews. That was enough for Hitler.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:35 PM (fLVm1)

363 The theme of Germany's own WW2 movies seems to be "look, we know we fcuked up royal, but look how frustrated and desperate we were."
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:34 PM (L2ZTs)

yes, the duality, always feels like there is something they want to reconcile, and can't.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:35 PM (V13WU)

364 6 bagpipers on the rodeo channel now. Horses and bagpipes ftw.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 08:35 PM (0OP+5)

365 moviegique, true. :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:35 PM (L2ZTs)

366 Did you ever hear his insanely twatty coda to "It's So Easy" on his cut on a Rave On Buddy Holly tribute album? It sounds like something that blackfaced piece of shit Virginia governor would do while imitating "darkies". Unforgivable.
Posted by: Captain Hate Won't Forget Ashli Babbitt at June 12, 2021 08:34 PM (y7DUB)

----------

No, but now I will have to add it to my White Supremacist playlist.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:36 PM (fLVm1)

367 I visited Bletchley Park where they were breaking codes in the UK. The Brits had a good head start because Polish code breakers had already broken German codes. They the knew the Germans were coming. They told the Brits. The British government did not do anything. You know - peace in our time and all that. But they did send a clandestine crew to spirit the Polish code breakers out.

They knew. Those effers knew.

Posted by: blaster at June 12, 2021 08:37 PM (Yoq4u)

368 Hitler had muslim volunteers during WW II, just like other non-Germans. Hated Jews. goggle Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Posted by: Eromero at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (0OP+5)

369 Runner--

"The Wind Rises" is the hardest movie I can think of like that, and it's Japanese, of course. Ooh, or "In This Corner of the World".

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (dhFCT)

370 If you wanna hear McCartney saying/going YOLO, listen to his weird-ass impression of an American Southern singer on "Nineteen Eighty-Four."

Paul, you know I love ya but that's *not* how they sound.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (L2ZTs)

371 Brits were extraordinary in WWII. Well, after they elected Churchill that is.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (V13WU)

372 Oops, the song is "Nineteen Hundred and Eighty-Five." :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:39 PM (L2ZTs)

373 No, but now I will have to add it to my White Supremacist playlist.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:36 PM (fLVm1)

The song itself is fine but they should have just faded it out without him making an ass out of himself. The producer fucked up.

It's on Spotify and the rest of the disc is pretty good.

Posted by: Captain Hate Won't Forget Ashli Babbitt at June 12, 2021 08:40 PM (y7DUB)

374 || If you wanna hear McCartney saying/going YOLO, listen to his weird-ass impression of an American Southern singer on "Nineteen Eighty-Four."||

You mean Nineteen Eighty-Five?

Is he...is he doing a voice there?

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:40 PM (dhFCT)

375 moviegique, it sure sounds to me like he's trying to sound like some sort of country singer, and not doing a very good job.

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:41 PM (L2ZTs)

376 The funniest thing I ever heard about Paul McCartney is how he showed up at Beyonce's after-party following the Grammys and they wouldn't let him in because nobody had ever heard of him.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:41 PM (fLVm1)

377 The impression McCartney used to be able to do that was *really* good, was of Little Richard/Screamin' Jay Hawkins.

Listen to "Why Don't We Do It In The Road." :-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:42 PM (L2ZTs)

378 Brits were extraordinary in WWII. Well, after they elected Churchill that is.
Posted by: runner

Brits: The problem with Yanks is they're overpaid, oversexed and over here.

Yanks: The problem with Brits is they're underpaid, undersexed and under Eisenhower. (Mic drop)

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 12, 2021 08:42 PM (a9DMy)

379 Brits were extraordinary in WWII. Well, after they elected Churchill that is.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (V13WU)

With out doubt one the greatest historical stands. But they didn't elect Churchill.

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:42 PM (KuDNQ)

380 If you wanna hear McCartney saying/going YOLO, listen to his weird-ass impression of an American Southern singer on "Nineteen Eighty-Four."

Paul, you know I love ya but that's *not* how they sound.
Posted by: qdpsteve at June 12, 2021 08:38 PM (L2ZTs)

I can't listen to any of his interviews where he lectures American audiences on ignoring R and B artists. Look, Sir Cunt, not all of us were like that. Wanker bitch.

Posted by: Captain Hate Won't Forget Ashli Babbitt at June 12, 2021 08:43 PM (y7DUB)

381 The Battle of Britain was definitely the Brits finest hour but frankly they didn't fair too well anywhere else without American assistance.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 08:44 PM (2DOZq)

382 The Battle of Britain was definitely the Brits finest hour but frankly they didn't fair too well anywhere else without American assistance.
Posted by: J

they were out of the force projectin business

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:45 PM (MMtX5)

383 I am still watching these dogs for some reason. Just saw a Lhasa Apso. 11 inches from the paw to the head, 6 pounds of 'em.

Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 08:46 PM (gJfTA)

384 Oh, wow, I never even picked up on it.

||Listen to "Why Don't We Do It In The Road." :-)

No.

But I will l listen to Screamin' Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGPhpvqtOc&t=1s

Holy cats, I think that video is racist.

Screamin' Jay was in the Jim Jarmusch film "Mystery Train".

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:46 PM (dhFCT)

385 The Battle of Britain was definitely the Brits finest hour but frankly they didn't fair too well anywhere else without American assistance.
Posted by: Just a side note

And at the end of it, Britain was a spent force. Hitler had won but threw in the towel at that very moment. At least according to some WWII documentary I watched recently.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 08:46 PM (a9DMy)

386 383 I am still watching these dogs for some reason. Just saw a Lhasa Apso. 11 inches from the paw to the head, 6 pounds of 'em.
Posted by: Quint at June 12, 2021 08:46 PM (gJfTA)

--------

The tallest Apsos are from Lhasa.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:47 PM (fLVm1)

387 The Battle of Britain was definitely the Brits finest hour but frankly they didn't fair too well anywhere else without American assistance.
Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 08:44 PM (2DOZq)

Really? History much?

Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:48 PM (KuDNQ)

388 A good friend of mine, now deceased, was aTeam Leader of a SF team in Bad Tolz in the 60's/70's, between tours to Vietnam. Tolz was the location of the SS officer training school. The Americans made it the SF HQs and also the NCO academy for the Army in Europe. In the heart of Bavaria, it was the post war settlement area for a shitload of former Nazis.
My buddy took me there (1980) for a long weekend once. over the years, my friend had befriended a bunch of those old bastards. In 1980 they were still tough, and proud, and were actually interesting to chat with.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 12, 2021 08:48 PM (axyOa)

389 RE: this ONTs main Topic.

I had the pleasure of meeting and knowing, and the distress of hearing first-person accounts from First Person People, who saw, knew, and survived.

Among them Dr. George (Gyorgy) Heltai, long time professor at the College of Charleston.

What he told me has bothered my brain ever since. However, I promised to him and myself that I will never forget.

Posted by: Miklos at June 12, 2021 08:49 PM (QzkSJ)

390 And at the end of it, Britain was a spent force. Hitler had won but threw in the towel at that very moment. At least according to some WWII documentary I watched recently.
Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 08:46 PM (a9DMy)

Again fortunate that Hitler was not a very good military strategist. He was either very bold or overly cautious. It was pure luck when he chose correctly.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 08:49 PM (2DOZq)

391 ith out doubt one the greatest historical stands. But they didn't elect Churchill.
Posted by: TC at June 12, 2021 08:42 PM (KuDNQ)

my bad, when he was appointed PM

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:49 PM (V13WU)

392 after Chamberlain resigned

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:49 PM (V13WU)

393 If you are interested in lectures about Italian Fascism as opposed to German Naziism, look up the lectures by Ralph Raico on Youtube.
Raico has little love for Mussolini, but he finds him far better than Hitler as Mussolini was merely demented, corrupt and lead a corrupt incompetent dicatorship.

His essays are on the CATO website also.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:50 PM (ySM85)

394 Wonderful Christmas Time is one of my favorite Christmas songs. I watched the video and Paul looks so happy with Linda.

Posted by: Megthered at June 12, 2021 08:51 PM (0dmcN)

395 Who's Beyonce?

Posted by: klaftern at June 12, 2021 08:51 PM (r4sI4)

396 If you are interested in lectures about Italian Fascism as opposed to German Naziism, look up the lectures by Ralph Raico on Youtube.
Raico has little love for Mussolini, but he finds him far better than Hitler as Mussolini was merely demented, corrupt and lead a corrupt incompetent dicatorship.

His essays are on the CATO website also.
Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:50 PM (ySM85)

so he is suggesting that the italians were not hyper efficient and motivated?

huh.

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:51 PM (MMtX5)

397 The impression McCartney used to be able to do that was *really* good, was of Little Richard/Screamin' Jay Hawkins.

Listen to "Why Don't We Do It In The Road." :-)
Posted by: qdpsteve

*road trip music playlist expanded*

Posted by: Miklos. heading out maybe at June 12, 2021 08:52 PM (QzkSJ)

398 Let alone approach understanding the vile folks that caused it all.

Mrs. Barbara Turkeltaub
https://is.gd/MX09CI
Posted by: Tonypete at June 12, 2021 08:19 PM (Rvt8

wow.

Posted by: LASue at June 12, 2021 08:52 PM (Ed8Zd)

399 which brings us to today. we can all laugh over Karens and mask mandates , but what if next time something harsher comes down? how many will resist ? how many will tell on their neighbors? how many of your neighbors, relatives even, do you now trust ?

In Ohio, we went from "voluntary vaccines," to "vaccine lottery." The city of Columbus is now considering paying people $100 for the injection.

What's next? And why are they so passionate about injecting people with an unproven shot that has killed 6,000 for a disease that 99.73% survive?

/swine flu shots in '76 were stopped when 20 people died.

Posted by: vyx at June 12, 2021 08:53 PM (LS4XM)

400 he finds him far better than Hitler as Mussolini was merely demented, corrupt and lead a corrupt incompetent dicatorship.

---------

Mussolini was highly educated. His buffoon image doesn't do him justice.

Also, to his credit he consistently pissed Hitler off by refusing to crack down on Italian Jews. He even had one in his cabinet.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:53 PM (fLVm1)

401 One of my favorite apocryphal stories:

Air liners lined up on Frankfort runway waiting to take off. A German carrier speaks to the tower IN GERMAN and is admonished by the tower to please speak in English.

"Why", asked the German pilot, "I am German, flying German plane in Germany. Why can I not speak German?"

From a British carrier waiting to take off in a thick British accent, "Because you lost the bloody war!".

I love that one.

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 08:53 PM (a9DMy)

402 I always get Paul Simon and Neil Simon mixed up.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 12, 2021 08:54 PM (u82oZ)

403 ||What he told me has bothered my brain ever since. However, I promised to him and myself that I will never forget.||

I think it should be disturbing. That's why I'm mistrustful of movies that paint in black-and-white.

Anyway, I've now gone done a YT rabbit-hole of old blues guys playing guitar which is a much pleasanter diversion.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:54 PM (dhFCT)

404 What's next? And why are they so passionate about
injecting people with an unproven shot that has killed 6,000 for a
disease that 99.73% survive?

/swine flu shots in '76 were stopped when 20 people died.
Posted by: vyx at June 12, 2021 08:53 PM (LS4XM)

Washington state is bribing people with free pot. In violation of even state law I suspect

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:54 PM (ySM85)

405 The tallest Apsos are from Lhasa.
Posted by: Cicero

Apro-Tashi-Lun -po

Posted by: Calvinist Buddhist Monk Miklos at June 12, 2021 08:55 PM (QzkSJ)

406 402 I always get Paul Simon and Neil Simon mixed up.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 12, 2021 08:54 PM (u82oZ)

--------

Same here. Awkward.

Posted by: Marsha Mason at June 12, 2021 08:55 PM (fLVm1)

407 A good friend of mine, now deceased, was aTeam Leader of a SF team in Bad Tolz in the 60's/70's, between tours to Vietnam. Tolz was the location of the SS officer training school. The Americans made it the SF HQs and also the NCO academy for the Army in Europe. In the heart of Bavaria, it was the post war settlement area for a shitload of former Nazis.
My buddy took me there (1980) for a long weekend once. over the years, my friend had befriended a bunch of those old bastards. In 1980 they were still tough, and proud, and were actually interesting to chat with.
Posted by: Diogenes at June 12, 2021 08:48 PM (axyOa)

weird My ex was SF in Bad Tolz in the 80s. We went there in 90 and everyone (still) was pretty tough and fascinating.

Posted by: LASue at June 12, 2021 08:55 PM (Ed8Zd)

408 Blutarski

The lost Brit Air pilot over Germany wanting a vector to Dusseldorf.

He said, I found it during the war, but I need an airfield now.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 12, 2021 08:56 PM (u82oZ)

409 Have a great night, everyone.

May you be refreshed.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 12, 2021 08:56 PM (u82oZ)

410 The lost Brit Air pilot over Germany wanting a vector to Dusseldorf.

He said, I found it during the war, but I need an airfield now.
Posted by: N

nice

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 08:56 PM (MMtX5)

411 ||I always get Paul Simon and Neil Simon mixed up.||

Yeah, "Laughter on the 59th Street Bridge" was his greatest musical.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 08:56 PM (dhFCT)

412 One of my favorite apocryphal stories:

Air liners lined up on Frankfort runway waiting to take off. A German carrier speaks to the tower IN GERMAN and is admonished by the tower to please speak in English.

"Why", asked the German pilot, "I am German, flying German plane in Germany. Why can I not speak German?"

From a British carrier waiting to take off in a thick British accent, "Because you lost the bloody war!".

==

How undiplomatic !

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 08:57 PM (V13WU)

413 A blend of a gentle comforting agent and a thorough laxative.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 12, 2021 08:58 PM (vuisn)

414 Mussolini was highly educated. His buffoon image doesn't do him justice.

Also, to his credit he consistently pissed Hitler off by refusing to
crack down on Italian Jews. He even had one in his cabinet.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 08:53 PM (fLVm1)

The Italian fascist state was incompetent, however. It was an incompetence of self interest, empire building, and faction fighting.

Granted, Italy is the place where if 10 people are having an argument, and six of them wind up on the same side, those six immediately start screaming at each other because they think the others are agreeing for the wrong reason.

Posted by: Kindltot at June 12, 2021 08:59 PM (ySM85)

415 From and extensive Wikipedia entry on Hitler and Religion

Hitler's views on Islam are a matter of controversy. On the one hand, Hitler privately demeaned ethnic groups he associated with Islam, notably Arabs, as racially inferior. On the other hand, he also made private and public statements expressing admiration for what he perceived to be the militaristic nature of Islam and the political sharpness of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.

Hitler's overall views and opinions are convoluted and pretty weird. While believing in a "divine Providence", which sounds sort of like Washington, he also hated Christianity in general, and had a weird revisionist view that Jesus hated the Jews, and wanted to attack them (example of Jesus cleansing the Temple in Jerusalem of the moneychangers, etc.).\
He hated atheists, and thought they were barbaric animals, akin to the Bolsheviks (who were proudly atheists), and wanted to create an Aryan religion with Germany as the worshipped god.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative.....Living on the prison planet at June 12, 2021 09:00 PM (tjZg/)

416 I don't know about Mussolini but the guys running the show here in the USA are all "highly educated," too.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 09:00 PM (dhFCT)

417 I love that one.
Posted by: Blutarski

In the 80s, I met some Hungarian flight controllers in a pub. Their English was limited to Professional Flight Controller Stuff.

"Refuel"= another round

"Must dump excess weight"= go to toilet

"Circle again"= ok this chick maybe

"Must dump excess weight"=not that chick hell no

Posted by: Miklosian Bar Stories part 843 at June 12, 2021 09:01 PM (QzkSJ)

418 Mussolini was a journalist. That should explain everything.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 09:01 PM (2DOZq)

419 Trying to suss out what Hitler believed from what he said and wrote is like trying to suss out Iago by what he says in "Othello".

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 09:02 PM (dhFCT)

420
Washington state is bribing people with free pot. In violation of even state law I suspect
Posted by: Kindltot

The city of Columbus is talking about giving people a hundred dollars if they get vaccinated.

Sheesh, how totally corrupt. African- Americans are NOT getting vaccinated. I think the vaccination rate is around 20% among black folks.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative.....Living on the prison planet at June 12, 2021 09:03 PM (tjZg/)

421 McCartney was a good bass player and had good pipes for harmonies, maybe because of the bass.

Posted by: dartist at June 12, 2021 09:03 PM (+ya+t)

422 ONT up

Posted by: Blutarski at June 12, 2021 09:03 PM (a9DMy)

423 give out iphones

Posted by: confederatefifth at June 12, 2021 09:03 PM (MMtX5)

424 I watched Triumph of the Will on YouTube a while back. It took some dogged perseverance to sit through the whole thing. It's interesting as a historical piece but I really had to wonder about a society that would have been impressed by it.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at June 12, 2021 07:09 PM (fLVm1)

Back in the late 80s, we rented a VHS tape of it from the video store. I remember it had a big orange WARNING label printed on the box. I was nervous when we put it in the machine - such dangerous stuff, I was worried it might turn me into a Nazi if we watched it! I ended up falling asleep about 15 minutes in. All I remember was lots of shots of clouds. I think you pretty well had to already be committed to the propaganda for it to have any effect on you.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at June 12, 2021 09:03 PM (uPMQa)

425 weird My ex was SF in Bad Tolz in the 80s. We went there in 90 and everyone (still) was pretty tough and fascinating.
Posted by: LASue at June 12, 2021 08:55 PM (Ed8Zd)

I suspect it is like that today.
Your ex probably knee my friend. SF is a small community.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 12, 2021 09:04 PM (axyOa)

426 hitler and his clique were into weird stuff like astrology, numerology , you name it. collected religious memorabilia, so Raiders weren't too far off.

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 09:04 PM (V13WU)

427 I saw some woke critique of Othello that said he and Iago were gay lovers and that's why Iago wanted desdemona out of the way.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 12, 2021 09:05 PM (q3gwH)

428 426 hitler and his clique were into weird stuff like astrology, numerology , you name it. collected religious memorabilia, so Raiders weren't too far off.
Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 09:04 PM (V13WU)

Himmler was the head honcho for that.

Posted by: Just a side note at June 12, 2021 09:05 PM (2DOZq)

429 thank you for another great thread moviegique

Posted by: runner at June 12, 2021 09:06 PM (V13WU)

430 Thanks for joining in Runner & everyone!

||427 I saw some woke critique of Othello that said he and Iago were gay lovers and that's why Iago wanted desdemona out of the way.
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 12, 2021 09:05 PM (q3gwH)||

Ah, the plan to murder the arts proceeds apace.

Posted by: moviegique at June 12, 2021 09:09 PM (dhFCT)

431 I like Wonderful Christmastime. Sue me.
Posted by: Dr. T

I'll see you in court.

I grew up with The Beatles, but I think a LOT of what they wrote (at times) was pretty self-indulgent.

Paul McCartney is a flaming narcissist, for many reasons that I won't go into here. I think most of what he wrote after leaving The Beatles is pop-crap. My older sister loves him (she's 6

. My oldest sister and I both prefer George Harrison. My oldest sister actually saw The Beatles in concert in the 1960's and said they really weren't very good live (she saw the Stones live, and The Who when Tommy came out in 1968, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, etc).

People can have their own musical tastes, I am not the ultimate arbiter of what is good or bad. But Paul is just such a jerk sometimes. He treats people that work for him really badly. He is very friendly and nice to people that are his "peers".

Posted by: Bozo Conservative.....Living on the prison planet at June 12, 2021 09:10 PM (tjZg/)

432 291 "I've watched it all but not at one sitting. Much of it is slow, sort of a Hannah Arendt banality of evil thing. I remember, a long sequence of a train engineer driving his train. In earlier days his trains were filled with Jews. Still, watching him drive his train past trees, fields, and buildings is less than compelling."

I watched it in several parts, as a PBS special IIRC. I found that sequence highly effective, just because of those juxtapositions. If you can find an Al Stewart song called "Trains" it's largely based on it, including a reference to the one scene I found the most chilling of the entire movie.

Posted by: Pat*''s Hubby at June 12, 2021 09:39 PM (2pX/F)

433 My high school German teacher every year did a lesson on the Third Reich and the Holocaust, ending with pictures of the camps. Some from Life magazine, some not. In retrospect, it's obvious that he was in Army Intelligence and had been there.

He'd periodically go back to Germany for family stays to keep current on the language, and told us that many of those he spoke with remembered the 'Hitlerzeit' fondly and still thought well of Der F�hrer. He was mostly visiting Bavaria IIRC.

I suppose if you showed kids those photos these days some Karen would scream their head off. I never head a peep about it back then. This was in 1970-72.

Posted by: Pat*''s Hubby at June 12, 2021 09:48 PM (2pX/F)

434 ||I suppose if you showed kids those photos these days some Karen would scream their head off. I never head a peep about it back then. This was in 1970-72.||

I wonder! We used to get all kinds of appalling imagery at school. What was the Driver's Ed film? Red Asphalt?

Posted by: moviegique at June 13, 2021 11:23 AM (dhFCT)

435 Triumph of the Will is the prototype of all campaign ads. A masterpiece. The author is probably a proud follower of Mayor Buttplug. As far as not being a Nazi don't worry it appears half of all Americans believe the Nazis were pansy assed do gooders and much prefer really evil people like Marxists.

So in the end all people show their true characters and as the Bible says far fewer people will be entering heaven than those here who consider themselves above average in intelligence. The last time I looked that included 98% of all Americans.

Posted by: I am not corey Booker at June 13, 2021 09:41 PM (EcD5Y)

436 LOL, I consume massive amounts of anti-German propaganda and they are bad mmmkkayyyy? Your country supported Stalin a murderer who starved millions of Christians to death in the Holodomor, who murdered thousands of Poles in the Katyn forest and raped hundreds of thousands of German women. So fuck right off with your moral faggotry semite.

Posted by: RandbotFan at June 14, 2021 03:13 PM (i7ZAA)

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