Upton vs. Landrieu

The House is debating the Upton bill. It will pass; the only question is how much Democratic support it will have. Upton himself told Greta Van Sustern that he hasn't whipped this, so he doesn't know how many votes they'll have. But he guessed that even after Obama's fake administrative fix, the bill might get 50 Democratic votes.

I previously predicted that Democrats would resort to arguing against changes to Obamacare by claiming the changes constituted "socialism," whereas the Democratic mandates represented "free markets.' The idiot of ~~Northern Virginia, Jim Moran,~~ Washington, Jim McDermott, just made that exact case, misrepresenting the Upton bill as mandating that insurance companies sell policies.

He got confused. That's the Landrieu bill. Or, more likely, he was simply, get this, lying as usual.

These seem to be the differences between Upton and Landrieu:

Upton provides only for a year-long ability to buy your old policy. Landrieu's bill says the policy must be offered until there are no longer any subscribers to the policy. Advantage: Landrieu

Landrieu's bill applies only to people who actually had the policy before October 1st. Upton is much more expansive: Upton says that if the policy is being offered to anyone, then new customers may buy into that policy as well. Landrieu thus seeks to limit the pool of people who can self-exempt from Obamacare, whereas Upton seeks to expand it. Advantage: Upton

Upton's bill says that insurance companies may offer the old plans. Landrieu says they must.

Many conservatives don't like that last part, because it's a "new mandate." Fine, but insurance companies have been mandated to do things for 50 years, and Obamacare imposes a slew of new mandates. One more mandate won't hurt -- and further, this mandate is necessary to undo the harm that Obama is imposed.

Let's face it, insurance companies are in bed with Obama (but getting uncomfortable with being used by him). They have no more interest in exempting people from Obamacare than Obama himself does. To get them to actually offer these policies will in fact take a mandate -- otherwise, they'll be content to dump everyone in the exchanges.

The insurance companies went along with every other mandate. I will not cry if they get hit with a new one. They were fine with mandates so long as citizens were being mandated themselves, to buy their product; they have, as a group, announced their openness to mandates.

So, impose the mandate on them. They surrendered their right to complain on this point. They're not victims, they're volunteers.

Advantage: Landrieu

My call: Go with Landrieu... but, if possible, add in Upton's provision that any other similar customer who qualifies for a plan that's being offered can also buy it.

The "drawback" of this is that it destroys Obamacare. It undermines the system. Yes, fine: This is what is needed. A decision must be made, and that decision must be forced.

Even if we have to make things so bad that insurance companies bring suit against the government, or begin dropping out of the individual market entirely.

The insurance companies are currently afraid of Obama, and are still playing footsie with him. The only way to overcome the Chicago Mob's coercion of insurance companies is, frankly, to coerce them from the other direction.

We may not be able to repeal Obamacare in one swoop, but we can repeal it piece-by-piece, exempting this class of the population, then this one, then the next one, until no one at all is in Obamacare except the uninsurable.

At that point, the American people can decide whether or not it wants to accept huge new spending levels to insure the uninsurable, or not. But at least the public will have an honest accounting of the actual costs, as opposed to Obamacare's current scheme, in which Obama imposes hidden taxes on specific citizens to pay for his boondoggle.

Obama, as you probably know, has threatened to veto any bill that forces him to keep his promise:

The President just threatened to veto our bipartisan bill to allow you to #KeepYourPlan. pic.twitter.com/dXMhsTXWtn
— Eric Cantor (@GOPLeader) November 15, 2013

We must make him do that.

And we must make Democrats vote to override his veto.

Corrected: It was Jim McDermott who made the "Republicans love socialism, and Obamacare is 'free market' capitalism" argument, not Jim Moran. I have trouble telling these two crusty communists apart.

Posted by: Ace at 11:48 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 first

Posted by: Mallfly at November 15, 2013 11:50 AM (bJm7W)

2 I see the squid pies are going to be flying across the aisle today.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2013 11:51 AM (0fdrC)

3 To-may-to, to-mah-to, let's call the whole thing off!
Repeal it.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 15, 2013 11:51 AM (JRmiD)

4 I take full responsibility. Now, watch this drive.

Posted by: Barky O'Links at November 15, 2013 11:52 AM (KQp38)

5
I love the optics.

Go ahead, Dogeater, veto a bill that seeks to make your vociferous and oft repeated promises come true.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 11:52 AM (LA7Cm)

6 Seriously?
Kate is way hotter than Mary.
Not.Even.Close.

Posted by: RolandTHTG at November 15, 2013 11:52 AM (QM5S2)

7 My call: we should all focus on Kate Upton.

Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (aA2hG)

8 Wait, am I the only moron who's thinking of Kate Upton?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 56% more DOOM! at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (09o/X)

9 I said you could keep your plan. I never said anything about your policy.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (+H/11)

10
Fuck Landrieu and fuck Upton.
Let the country stew in its awfulness then go full repeal.
Nothing less than repeal.

Posted by: rrpjr at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (rNCV5)

11 I can't help but laugh.

Did Obama never hear the phrase "stop diggin?" God, I hope not. Watching this marxist asshole implode is making my holiday season.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (x3YFz)

12 I take full responsibility. For discovering that the insurers are greedy because they won't now honor expired plans.
Go get 'em and don't forget the pitchforks.

Posted by: Barack the Magnificent at November 15, 2013 11:53 AM (JRmiD)

13 Screw this shit.

Posted by: Insurance companies in bed with B.O. at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (LA7Cm)

14
Landru, save us!

LANDRU!

Posted by: The Body at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (uhAkr)

15 Repeal, repeal, repeal. Period.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (LSJmV)

16 Combine the bills? Oh my!

Then would have the Up-Landrieu Bill.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (0fdrC)

17 I think Drew said that Fred Upton is actually Kate Upton's uncle or something.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2013 11:54 AM (/FnUH)

18 And by rule, any mention of any Upton in any circumstance should also have a picture or artist's representation of teh boobez accompanying it.

Posted by: RolandTHTG at November 15, 2013 11:55 AM (QM5S2)

19 Am I a wacko-bird if think I see the hand of God in this chaos?

Posted by: Yeah.Probably at November 15, 2013 11:55 AM (pj6Nr)

20
"Then would have the Up-Landrieu Bill..."

Ain't nobody that wants to take that path....

Posted by: Topper Harley at November 15, 2013 11:55 AM (LA7Cm)

21 "The President just threatened to veto our bipartisan bill to allow you to #KeepYourPlan"

More of this, please. Is that so much to ask?

Posted by: Lizzy at November 15, 2013 11:56 AM (JRmiD)

22 what's that saying? chickens and roosting? something... /taps forehead...

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:56 AM (x3YFz)

23 Ok I need a civics lesson, is the house voting on one and the senate voting on one and they will merge them together or if one passes the other one is dead? I can't remember which way bills flow. Yeah I'm an idiot, but at least I am the kind that votes conservative.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at November 15, 2013 11:56 AM (RZ8pf)

24
"Am I a wacko-bird if think I see the hand of God in this chaos? "

No. You'd just be, like me, tired of fixing sh!t after liberals have FUBAR'd it.

Posted by: G.O.D. at November 15, 2013 11:57 AM (LA7Cm)

25 I disagree, Ace.

The Upton bill is, in essence, enabling ChoomCare. Solidifying the cement holding the bricks of horrendously bad policy together. In the end, it will make things easier for our felonious president no matter how he chooses to deal with it,

I know it's impossible -- see: Boner, John, C*ntor, Eric, and other notable sellouts -- but what should happen is an endless line of Republican House members walking their bills, each repealing ChoomCare in full, and nothing more, up to the front desk.

Playing politics with this regime is a lose/lose proposition, no matter how many pundits are making hay off of gaming it and offering optically correct solutions that won't offend their Democrat pals.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 15, 2013 11:57 AM (kaGpp)

26 Jocularity! Jocularity!

Posted by: Father Mulcahy at November 15, 2013 11:57 AM (LA7Cm)

27 Normally I would not agree, but you've made a very good case. The insurance companies are already compromised. They're tainted. Nearly all the players in health care bowed down to Obama in 2009 as though he had been acknowledged the supreme dictator. They decided to get on board to make the best deal possible as crony capitalists.

There's no use in trying to deal with Insurance as though they will operate in a free market. They have to be pushed back against, made fearful of, Republicans. I don't know how you get out of government control of an industry once you've imposed it.

Posted by: Jane at November 15, 2013 11:57 AM (J+Bq4)

28 Am I one of the few who thinks doing something for the sake of optics is wrong?

Forest, trees. Some assembly required.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (LSJmV)

29 Great post, Ace, and thank you for pointing out the insurance companies weren't raped. They drank a whole bunch of rent-seeking, got into bed with Obama, and it's the next morning and they're now horrified by their poor life choices. 'Ef em.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (hslAc)

30
I have come to the conclusion that there is going to be massive chaos either way, changing the law or keeping the law as is or killing the whole thing outright.

That box that got opened with this flustercluck belonged to Pandora.

Killing the whole thing is the best option, but everyday that goes by that that happens is going to make it that much worse.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (iGPSR)

31 21
"The President just threatened to veto our bipartisan bill to allow you to #KeepYourPlan"

More of this, please. Is that so much to ask?

Posted by: Lizzy at November 15, 2013 11:56 AM (JRmiD)

When faced with difficult situations, politically or otherwise, Obama flails about like a 4 year old in a tantrum.

It's freaking hilarious.

He's an infant.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (x3YFz)

32 Upton vs. Landrieu
-

Maryann v. the Skipper

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (Hx5uv)

33 I would like to amend the Upton bill including a provision that immediately after it passes the House Kate Upton does the Cat Daddy on the Capitol steps.

Posted by: CAC at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (rXzWE)

34 32
Upton vs. Landrieu
-

Maryann v. the Skipper

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (Hx5uv)

Skipper. Sarcasm always wins.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (x3YFz)

35 Well, at least he's threatening to be constitutional.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:00 PM (659DL)

36 Posted by: Yeah.Probably at November 15, 2013 11:55 AM (pj6Nr)

Just keep praying regardless.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 12:00 PM (23Kgq)

37 35
Well, at least he's threatening to be constitutional.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of
doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:00 PM (659DL)

I doubt he's even read it.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:00 PM (x3YFz)

38 Of course, if you go with Landrieu's plan, all the chaos teh insurance companies were talkinga bout after Obammy's presser yesterday would be forced into fruition. They've set up their premiums and their actuary tables for the upcoming year, so telling them they now have to sell their old policies again is going to completely screw them and their customers.
I don't care about the insurance companies -- fuck them, the traitorous swine -- but I do care about the people who are going to be double fucked by this stupid law and its cheerleaders. Unlike our idiot Preezy and his lackeys, I actually want people to feel safe and comfortable again.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:01 PM (4df7R)

39 Your move, Senator Cruz.

Posted by: Mr. Powerstroke Super Duty 4X4 King Ranch Edition at November 15, 2013 12:01 PM (LSJmV)

40 Why is this fuckstick Upton throwing Barky a lifeline?

Posted by: Powderhouse Rules at November 15, 2013 12:01 PM (Xv7f/)

41
"Am I one of the few who thinks doing something for the sake of optics is wrong?"

Politics is optics. It conveys a message as well. We have a POTUS who the general population and media at large is now coming around to understanding to be a liar. Driving home that impression, large, loud, and, publicly, by having him deny to allow what he explicitly said would happen if we just "trusted" him is a gigantic message.

LIVs don't understand much but when the POTUS has become a "liar" they get it. See.G.W.B.

Posted by: Father Mulcahy at November 15, 2013 12:01 PM (LA7Cm)

42 OVERRIDE THE VETO!!!!!

That will be so, so awesome. That would almost make this whole disaster worth while.

Twist the knife, you fuckers!

Posted by: Eton Cox at November 15, 2013 12:01 PM (q177U)

43 This Valasquez speaking sounds like a real Einstein.

Posted by: UWP at November 15, 2013 12:02 PM (fdXMW)

44 I would like to amend the Upton bill including a provision that immediately after it passes the House Kate Upton does the Cat Daddy on the Capitol steps.

***

Finally....A law I can get behind.

Posted by: B at November 15, 2013 12:02 PM (twiRb)

45 Kate Upton - Hawt

Mary Landrieu - Puffier than Ashley Judd after being stung by a swarm of bees while holding a bag of Sta-Puft marshmallows.

Advantage: Upton

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:03 PM (7ObY1)

46 What I like about this bill is that it throws everything into chaos again.

The insurance companies dont kno from one minute tp the next what the hell will be forced on them. And if there's one thing insurance companies hate, it's unpredictability. For all they know, there could be some other bill making things topsy-turvy next month too. And so on.

If the bill passes, many will bail out of the system. Throwing it into more chaos.

As an added benefit, with endless changes, the average "young healthy" American will no longer know whether or not he's compelled or even expected to buy insurance, guaranteeing that essentially no one will ever again use healthcare.gov to sign up for anything -- leading to the death spiral more quickly.

Embrace the chaos. Chaos is our friend!

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:03 PM (+cx5n)

47 does Ace actually support forcing insurance companies to offer specific plans in perpetuity?

Posted by: Jose at November 15, 2013 12:03 PM (zc/sw)

48 I favor passing Upton, just to make Barky use his "historic first" veto.

I favor passing Upton just to see Nancy Pelosi whipping Democrats to keep them from voting to keep Obama's promise.

I favor passing Upton just to see how many Democrats you can get to walk the "no, you liked your plan, but you can't keep it" plank.

I favor passing Upton just to see Kate Upton photoshopped somehow into this whole process.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 15, 2013 12:03 PM (OWjjx)

49 This Valasquez speaking sounds like a real Einstein.
Posted by: UWP at November 15, 2013 12:02 PM (fdXMW)

It's amazing how many Congress critters (among others in DC) don't know to follow the simple advice, "It's better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:03 PM (4df7R)

50 More public bufoonings are not a bad thing in this case.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (LA7Cm)

51 Has any president before Obama ever had a formal printed "Veto Threat" document? I sure as hell don't remember seeing one.

It reminds me of the Office of the President Elect BS during the transition.

The bastard is so narcissistic that he even needs some fake-formal pronouncement of a simple threat.

Posted by: Stirner at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (l1p2K)

52 How did these two dumbshits end up in position to act as savior? Upton is the genius responsible for banning the incandescent light bulb. Outside of his niece's spectacular cans he has zero redeeming qualities. Landrieu was born without that gene that gives you the ability to feel shame for being embarrassingly transparent. This fucking gaggle of incompetents and blowhards in congress are a stain on the course of human evolution.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (+lsX1)

53 Re 23

As long as the law passed by both Houses of Congress have identical wording, it is constitutional. Now, if the bill changes taxes then it must originate with the House.

Thus, if the House and Senate bills are different--one way is to go to conference where House and Senate members produce the final bill for both houses to vote upon. Another way is for either chamber to simply pass the other chamber's bill and give up their own bill. Last, but not least, sometimes an existing bill passed by one house is gutted and an amendment is passed that is essentially the other house's bill that has passed. If I recall correctly, this is how the Senate's Obamacare bill was passed--a House bill with minor taxes was amended with the Obamacare bill--thus recounciliation procedures could be used and also the tax bill theoretically originated in the House. Then, the Obamacare bill was passed by the House. Voila--the current law.

Posted by: wg at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (P5HVp)

54 Why is this fuckstick Upton throwing Barky a lifeline?

Gives me the chance to say once again, they aren't who you think they are.

Both sides are doing this dance to save their phoney baloney jobs, nothing more.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (iGPSR)

55 It is kind of astounding after listening to our representatives for a while how many of them appear to be blathering idiots. Though I suppose these days that is just an indication that they are "representative" of the majority of their constituents. But still it is a bit scary these morons have their hand on the law making tiller.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (RZ8pf)

56 What I like about this bill is that it throws everything into chaos again.
-

I'm fine with that but it must remain 100% Donk chaos.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (Hx5uv)

57 Martin Landrieu was great in Space:1999.

Posted by: jakeman at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (vH4YP)

58 I don't think any of these fixes can help us.

My husband's company discontinued it's insurance program because the insurance company discontinued that plan. In fact, I believe they discontinued the entire subsidiary that managed the plan. Poof! I don't know if they can just say "Whoops, nevermind" and bring that back. And even if the *do* bring it back, will all the companies that dropped their insurance programs due to the original policy cancellations just jump right back in and start offering coverage for their employees again?

The deadline for all of this is Dec. 15, because most of us are losing coverage on Jan. 1. Can this be fixed in a month? I really, really, really don't think so.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (hFL/3)

59 Isn't Obama's veto threat exactly the same thing as the "Blazing Saddles Gambit" that Sheriff Bart did with the gun? i.e. Nobody move or...

Posted by: Roy at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (VndSC)

60 Uh.... under what Constitutional Authority is the Congress doing this?

What gives them the authority to order STATES to tell Insurance companies what they must do, seeing as how these policies do not cross State Lines?

BOTH of these bills are coercive in Nature... are expanding the roll of the Federal Government... and placing Federal Law in charge of Contracts.... even those already signed?

And.... as this does change who will get taxes, and who will not... does this not affect revenue, and therefore it MUST start in the HOUSE?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (lZBBB)

61
So Obama is threatening to veto two acts which will, in essence, put in writing the very thing which he was blathering about yesterday?

If I were an insurance company executive, I sure as heck would want that guarantee in writing - that way, I wouldn't get burned when the President capriciously changes his mind again.

That is, after all, why we have LAWS.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (PZ6/M)

62 I'm confused by the sunsetting timeframes. Do either of these extend past 2014?

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at November 15, 2013 12:06 PM (zDsvJ)

63 Martin Landrieu was great in Space:1999.

That was Brian Dennehy.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:06 PM (659DL)

64 He is not of the body.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 15, 2013 12:06 PM (OQjmU)

65 57 Martin Landrieu was great in Space:1999.

And he NAILED his portrayal of Bela Lugosi in ED WOOD.

Killer performance.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (7ObY1)

66 Why is this fuckstick Upton throwing Barky a lifeline?

What lifeline? It guts Obamacare. You will have the market flooded with "substandard" policies and make them even more popular. You will force Obama to veto keeping his promise.

What the hell do you think his veto message will be.......I know I said you could keep your promise, but you can't. I know I said this would be deficiet neutral...it ain't.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (OWjjx)

67 Thanks for the answer wg!

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (RZ8pf)

68 Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:05 PM (hFL/3)

Yep; It's total games playing.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (23Kgq)

69 Has any president before Obama ever had a formal printed "Veto Threat" document? I sure as hell don't remember seeing one.

I'm sure there's always been some kind of formal notification of a President's intent to veto, as a way to get the legislature to work on crafting something more palatable instead of wasting time and money putting the finishing touches on a bill that's going to end up in the round file anyway.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (4df7R)

70 I thought we wanted to Just Win the Senate back. Why offer the Dems a lifeline for next year?

I don't see, and probably am missing something, but why do we need do anything? The Dems aren't going to give credit to the GOP for saving their asses. Transactionally I don't see what we get out of this. And please don't say we get to look like our guys are being proactive, because that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (rSTkb)

71 Posted by: wg at November 15, 2013 12:04 PM (P5HVp)

but this bill WILL affect Revenue, and so MUST start in the House....

If we are even pretending to follow the Constitution anymore...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (lZBBB)

72 From the dark days of 2009:

QUESTION: �My question would be about accountability. Would you be willing to accept 100% responsibility, 100% accountability for the failure or success of whatever you vote for?�

LANDRIEU: �I do, already, because that�s what I do every election. I mean I, you all have to�when I run for reelection you say to me �Senator we like what you�ve done we voted for you, we don�t like what you�ve done we voted against you.��

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (Hx5uv)

73 Gah, that stupid fucking signature.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 15, 2013 12:07 PM (LwqhW)

74 Oh and Obama's "apology" that he "fumbled" the roll out?

That's not a fumble on the opponent's 45 yard line.

That's a preconceived fumble where you didn't game plan and you put 9 men on the field instead of 11, and 3 were hockey players, two were hookers and 2 were hobos.

on the 1 yard line.

which led to the other team scoring 45 unanswered points.

That's the fumble.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (x3YFz)

75 That was Brian Dennehy.

Moonbase Alpha was his biggest role, literally.

Posted by: jakeman at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (vH4YP)

76
>>>These seem to be the differences between Upton and Landrieu:<<<

missed one: indoor and outdoor plumbing.

Posted by: Roy at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (VndSC)

77 45 Mary Landrieu - Puffier than Ashley Judd after being stung by a swarm of bees while holding a bag of Sta-Puft marshmallows.

*
*
I've always thought Mary looked more like Miss Piggy. Once upon a time ML was fairly cute for a lib, but she's been porking out on the sausage gumbo in recent years.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (BDU/a)

78 I also find it interesting that the president is doing the very thing which he was accusing the Republicans of doing just a few weeks ago - obstructing the implementation of his Signature Legislation.....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (PZ6/M)

79 Credit where credit is due: I think we now know why Sebelius included the mental health clauses in all plans last week.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (659DL)

80
"Can this be fixed in a month? I really, really, really don't think so."

No, they can't. Acts like these simply add to the chaos that makes this behemoth unworkable, unmanageable, and unviable. It adds to the crash. Good.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (LA7Cm)

81 I already fixed the Affordable Care Act. I won.

Posted by: Teh Obama at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (OZmbA)

82 If I were an insurance company executive, I sure as heck would want that guarantee in writing - that way, I wouldn't get burned when the President capriciously changes his mind again.

I'd want it written in arterial blood.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (p9JxP)

83 Repeal, repeal, repeal. Nothing less.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (LSJmV)

84 My gut says reject both.

Focus on treating the symptoms of the D's Obamacare, but don't treat the disease.

Middle class tax cuts, energy policy, and corporate tax rate cuts. Sell them to Americans as GOP's way to help working Americans slammed by Obamacare.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (zDsvJ)

85 I saw Donk Chaos open for Scritti Politti in 1980.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (sbV1u)

86 Fight chaos with chaos.
These people who say "repeal or nothing" are playing fucking checkers.

Pass bill after bill. Foment unease and mistrust. Exempt this, exempt that. Obama likes uncertainty and crisis?

Fucking give it to him in spades.

Posted by: Eton Cox at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (q177U)

87
What lifeline? It guts Obamacare. You will have the market flooded with "substandard" policies and make them even more popular. You will force Obama to veto keeping his promise.

Why does Obama want to veto this? If he signs it, he drags the Republicans into this hot mess. He can say he did what the GOP wanted and things are still screwed up.

He'll sign this if it passes the House and Senate.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (uhAkr)

88 May I pop some more popcorn now?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (0FSuD)

89 I don't get how people are calling these bills "fixes". If either passes, Obamacare is f#$%ed.

Posted by: Paul at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (JM48I)

90 Next up: Nationalizing prostitution. But if you like your whore you can keep your whore.

Posted by: Teh Obama at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (OZmbA)

91 80

"Can this be fixed in a month? I really, really, really don't think so."

No,
they can't. Acts like these simply add to the chaos that makes this
behemoth unworkable, unmanageable, and unviable. It adds to the crash.
Good.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (LA7Cm)

Guess I'm not the only one who snorted coffee out my nose at the Nov 30 deadline/rope they decided to hang themselves with.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (x3YFz)

92 I love his "veto threat" decree. I imagine he stomped his foot as he signed it and then curled up in a ball and sucked his thumb.

Posted by: Paranoidgirlinseattle at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (RZ8pf)

93 I've always thought Mary looked more like Miss Piggy. Once upon a time ML was fairly cute for a lib, but she's been porking out on the sausage gumbo in recent years.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 15, 2013 12:08 PM (BDU/a)

Landrieu did used to be pretty hot. Bad karma from her ridiculous hijinks during Katrina caught up with her.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (7ObY1)

94 Kate Upton. Advantage: The Middle Class.

Posted by: johnd01 at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (ukNFU)

95 Does this mean Ted Cruz was right?

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (O7OxF)

96 I saw Upton vs. Landrieu on the undercard of the Hearns vs. Leonard fight in '81.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (LSJmV)

97 He'll sign this if it passes the House and Senate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:09 PM (uhAkr)

Yep and nobody's plan will be saved anyway. Win for Obama.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (23Kgq)

98 If you would like to keep your plan, F1UCKYO.

Posted by: Barry Il Douche at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (FcR7P)

99 He'll sign this if it passes the House and Senate.

Apparently, we have someone who thinks the Sleestak will allow a vote on these bills in the Senate.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (659DL)

100 "Why does Obama want to veto this? "

Simple. It's an act against him, personally. That can not stand. He can wave his hands and allow us to keep our plans thanks to his benevolence, but he'll be damned before he lets anyone else take his glory or expose his failure.

The Obama presidency is really only about one thing: Obama's personality disorders.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:11 PM (hFL/3)

101 With respect to AllenG
Barack Obama is a Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Malignant Traitor.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (RtBoA)

102 People are missing the point about how destructive these new bills are.

Without FORCING people out of their cheaper old plans, and with FORCING previosuly uninsured people to buy ObamaCare, then the system simply does not function. So these new bills remove the engine that drives ObamaCare. That's not saving it -- that's gutting it.

Think of it this way:

Ford releases the new Pinto. Its gas tank keeps exploding. The care is deemed a disaster -- its very design renders it unsafe.

Some one then comes along and says, "I know a way we can save the Pinto!"

"How? It's so badly designed, it can't be saved."

"By removing the gas tank altogether!"

True. Without a tank, nothing can explode. But without a tank, there's no gas, so it just sits there!

And without 10 million healthy people forced by law to fund ObamaCare, it simply sits there in the driveway, dead.

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (+cx5n)

103 Let it burn.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (RtBoA)

104 Why, why why? Why do you white people hate President Obama so much?

Posted by: Oprah at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (OZmbA)

105 He'll sign this if it passes the House and Senate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yep, and then we're stuck with it for good.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (LSJmV)

106 Just do nothing. Vote present on any Dem bills. Watch the collapse. Repubs should stay away from this piece of crap or they will partially own it too. Just repeat 'Law of the Land' and 'We now know what Nancy meant by Find out whats in it.'

Stay Away

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262� at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (9Bdcz)

107 Ahem...

http://tinyurl.com/lzto8r5

nsfw

its friday

your welcome

Posted by: dananjcon at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (wmU4G)

108 The Obama presidency is really only about one thing: Obama's personality disorders.
Posted by: Lauren (hFL/3)

THIS

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (sbV1u)

109 If I were an insurance company executive, I sure as heck would want that guarantee in writing

An Obama guarantee written in blood and sworn on a stack of bibles is worth about as much as the rolled bathroom paper product it would be written on.

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (Xlbr8)

110 Advantage Kate

Posted by: teh Wind at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (B3WUC)

111 The care is deemed a disaster

=

The CAR is deemed a disaster

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (+cx5n)

112 Hard to get excited about anything from a guy who thinks he knows better than me what light bulbs I should use in my own home.

Posted by: GM at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (K0tm3)

113 Ooh. A Friday night that might take a turn for the interesting.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (m7EhJ)

114 If I like my plan for your destruction, I can keep my plan for your destruction.

Posted by: Barry Il Douche at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (FcR7P)

115 Ace, your point from a few weeks ago -- that the terms of the grandfather clause were severely limited not by congress and explicitly by the ACA but by the sec of HHS -- this makes O's declaration yesterday legal, correct? if that were the case the insurers would have to comply, for good or ill.

Posted by: Tron at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (j6Pk9)

116 Has any president before Obama ever had a formal printed "Veto Threat" document? I sure as hell don't remember seeing one.

This surprises you? Coming from the Office of the President Elect seal?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (p9JxP)

117 What a minute...you mean that the president actually signs documents entitled "Veto Threat"?

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (T0NGe)

118
"Simple. It's an act against him, personally. That can not stand..."

True. true. He takes this entire thing very personally. Thin skinned he be and all.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (LA7Cm)

119 Where's erg been lately? Shouldn't he be here to have his nose rubbed in the epic clusterfuck that is Obamacare?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (sbV1u)

120 Things you don't hear much anymore:

You get free blood pressure screenings!!!!

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (659DL)

121
And without 10 million healthy people forced by law to fund ObamaCare, it simply sits there in the driveway, dead.

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:12 PM (+cx5n)

Another project, brought you courtesy of the letter "E" and the liberals.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (x3YFz)

122 >>>29 Great post, Ace, and thank you for pointing out the insurance companies weren't raped. They drank a whole bunch of rent-seeking, got into bed with Obama, and it's the next morning and they're now horrified by their poor life choices. 'Ef em.Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (hslAc)<<< There's still time for them toget an abortion....*sorry, couldn't resist*

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (PZ6/M)

123 I don't get how people are calling these bills "fixes". If either passes, Obamacare is f#$%ed.
Posted by: Paul at November 15, 2013 12:10 PM (JM48I)

Obammycare's already fucked, and they know it. These aren't fixes; they're political theater meant to make the masses believe that Things Are Being Done At The Highest Levels By Top Men (tm). Neither of these "fixes" will fix a damn thing. All they do is provide some semblance of political cover for those who vote for them: "See, we tried! Please don't vote us out of office."

Personally I'm not for providing any of these assclowns with political cover, but YMMV.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (4df7R)

124 120
Things you don't hear much anymore:

You get free blood pressure screenings!!!!

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of
doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (659DL)

Um... buy a bp cuff? Spend 10 minutes on google?

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (x3YFz)

125 119
Where's erg been lately?

Spooning with Julia

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (Xlbr8)

126 Let him veto the damn bill.

And then we can have a Constitutional discussion...crisis, I mean. It's high time.

Posted by: PJ at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (ZWaLo)

127 Further, if the GOP forces an override, Barky gets his scapegoat.

If the GOP alters the bill, the Dems will have a bill to wave in the face of angry constituents,"It would have worked if not for those damned wreckers in the TEA-O-PEE!"

Attempting to be 'too clever by half' is dangerous enough even before factoring in the Stupid Party.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (rSTkb)

128 Skipper. Sarcasm always wins.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (x3YFz)

Not over tits it doesn't.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (da5Wo)

129 Veto Threat blew The Pretenders off the stage at The Lyceum in 1982.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (7ObY1)

130 Not over tits it doesn't.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (da5Wo)

::: fist bump :::

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:15 PM (sbV1u)

131 Let's try this again:>>>29 Great post, Ace, and thank you for pointing out the insurance companies weren't raped. They drank a whole bunch of rent-seeking, got into bed with Obama, and it's the next morning and they're now horrified by their poor life choices. 'Ef em.Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at November 15, 2013 11:58 AM (hslAc)<<<There's still time for them to get an abortion.....*sorry - couldn't resist*

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX (@Teresa_Koch) at November 15, 2013 12:15 PM (PZ6/M)

132 Hot damn! ot, but still...

http://tinyurl.com/m7mu23e

Difference between Lennix and Obama is who's fluent as himself, and who's the over stylized mimic.

Posted by: OMoobaCare at November 15, 2013 12:15 PM (MhA4j)

133 buy a bp cuff? Spend 10 minutes on google?

Stick your arm in the thingie at any WMT pharmacy.

Free is always the right price.

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:15 PM (Xlbr8)

134
Simple. It's an act against him, personally. That can not stand. He can wave his hands and allow us to keep our plans thanks to his benevolence, but he'll be damned before he lets anyone else take his glory or expose his failure.

Obama's defining trait is shifting blame. If Republicans offer him a way to take some blame, he'll give it to them.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (uhAkr)

135 http://tinyurl.com/l84qvtd

OT "sorta"

EPA not letting cities install lead fire hydrants...

one catch almost all fire hydrants are lead based because of cost and reliability.

Your EPA overlords at work...

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (9jfyN)

136 if that were the case the insurers would have to comply, for good or ill.

Posted by: Tron at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (j6Pk9)

The President does not have the authority to abrogate contracts created under the law as it was at the time the contract was signed...

That would create Ex Post Facto Law... which is explicitly not allowed under the Constitution.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB)

137 Obama will take the hit and veto any legislation that is passed by the Dems.

The Dems then get to go out and campaign that they TRIED to help people but Obama "held them hostage" or whatever stupid phrase they'll come up with.

They will think they are off the hook with their voters, but in fact they passed this piece of shit to begin with.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (f9c2L)

138 "Let's face it, insurance companies are in bed with Obama (but getting uncomfortable with being used by him). They have no more interest in exempting people from Obamacare than Obama himself does. To get them to actually offer these policies will in fact take a mandate -- otherwise, they'll be content to dump everyone in the exchanges."

I don't think you get how this whole thing works. There is no "exchange plicy" and "non-exchange policy". Every policy is the same, whether in or out of the exchange. The only difference is via the exchange you get govt subsidies.

But Policy XYZ available on the exchange is also available directly via the insurance company for the same price with the same benefits. Every single health plan in the land has the same benefits.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (0LHZx)

139 With respect, I think you should consider a couple of additional factors, Ace.

1. Just as a matter of practicality, neither Upton's nor Landrieu's bills can be implemented before 1/1/14. There's simply not time to get the rates approved, get the programming done, get the letters out, get the letters back, collect the premium, etc.

2. That might be fine, you say, because it further degrades Obamacare. However, it will severely destabilize the insurance industry. Recall what happened when AIG went bankrupt. Now consider how much worse it would be if Kaiser, Aetna, United and a couple of the Blues went down.

That latter scenario sounds extreme, but if they get caught between the Obama Administration on one hand and legislation that requires them to keep offering plans from the status quo ante, they could easily be in big trouble.

It's one hell of a mess, and I don't see a way out at the present time. I think the only thing to do is to allow the law to go forward as written, with the full brunt of the consequences, intended and unintended, to unfold on the populace.

Then, once it turns 2014, we can begin to plan for a properly considered way to retrench, overturn, etc.

Note that as a practical matter, the closer we get to elections in 2014, the more the Dems have an incentive to play ball.

Posted by: Andrew at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (cq0FO)

140

My friends, we have nothing to fear with Barack Obama in the White House

Posted by: John McCain at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (Pr6hk)

141 Upton (Kate, that is) improved the health of America by unblocking millions of prostate glands.

Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (+cx5n)

142 If you like your D.C. goatfuck, you can keep your D.C. goatfuck.

Posted by: wth at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (wAQA5)

143 You wingnutz will never be able to throw Obamacare into the volcano!

Posted by: urg at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (+H/11)

144 Why does Obama want to veto this? If he signs it, he drags the Republicans into this hot mess. He can say he did what the GOP wanted and things are still screwed up.

He'll sign this if it passes the House and Senate

Oh holy crap..........are you kidding me.....

Oh Lord. Obama will not sign it for 3 reasons. First, he said he would veto it. If he backs down now he looks completely ineffectual, no one will ever take his threat seriously and his second term is, at that point, over. Second, if he signs it, he pisses off his left wing base and his left wing donor base....and that means no more money for OFA. Third, his minions are up there right now telling Democrats to vote no against Upton. If these idiots walk the plank, vote no and then see Obama cave........they will never, ever, ever walk a plank for him again.

He has too publicly said he will veto to back off now.

And what if he does....that does not obligate the GOP to fix this crap. They passed a single bill addressing a single problem. Period. The rest of the mess....hey, O, that is yours. You figure it out. We want to repeal it.

You are also forgetting that we are going to see a wave of new cancellations once the employer mandate kicks in.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (OWjjx)

145
It doesn't matter really, insurance companies or any other business can operate under this sort of changing environment. Its the same as Venezuela taking over those retail stores and telling them what price to charge.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (iGPSR)

146 The only reason the Dems in the House are voting for these bills is for cover. They know Reid and Barky will kill the bills.

CYA.

Repeal!

Posted by: PJ at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (ZWaLo)

147 Rush reporting now that there may not be enough votes for the Upton Bill.

AND...

Back from the colonoscopy. All normal. Next one in 5 years, if I still have insurance or a doctor.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (olDqf)

148 Why, why why? Why do you white people hate President Obama so much?

It's all about his white half. I hate that creepy ass cracka.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (p9JxP)

149 Not over tits it doesn't.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (da5Wo)

Bah. 2 boobies for every girl, with 50/50 population distribution that means there's 66/33 boobie distribution.

I've done the math. It's on the white board.

we're virtually covered in boobs.

Mathematically speaking.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (x3YFz)

150 The insurance commissioner in Washington said yesterday he won't allow my insurance plan to remain in effect.

Fuck him. And fuck every Democrat alive. I cannot state in words how much I hate these people.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (0LHZx)

151 Skipper. Sarcasm always wins.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 11:59 AM (x3YFz)

Not over tits it doesn't.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:14 PM (da5Wo)

The Skipper had tits, too.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (4df7R)

152 can should be can't in 145.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (iGPSR)

153
"if that were the case the insurers would have to comply, for good or ill..."

The black and white letter of the law still stipulates that insurers have to comply with the provisions of the ACA in 2014. Period.

Is "well, the President said in a press conference that we didn't have to after all" going to have legal standing should the letter of the law get challenged in court?

Fuck.No.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (LA7Cm)

154 HOW could this be happening

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (Pr6hk)

155 Every single health plan in the land has the same benefits.

No, they do not. They differ based on geography, age, and sex in a great many ways. Most of the differences, as one would now expect, don't make a great deal of sense.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (659DL)

156

Hmmm, Rush saying he is hearing Dem's won't support Upton bill.

Same as the poodle said yesterday:

But Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) told CNN on Thursday she was confident that Democrats would hold rank against the bill.

�Tomorrow when that legislation comes on the floor, I�m confident the Democrats are going to stand, as we have, in unity to continue to support fully implementing the Affordable Care Act,� she said.

thehill

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (IXrOn)

157 No one will keep their plan. Even those with employer insurance. This bill will not reach the Senate Floor. We need to repeal the law.

Posted by: genew at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (0Titl)

158 we're virtually covered in boobs.

~~Mathematically speaking.~~

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (x3YFz)

Fixed. Hopefully.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (da5Wo)

159 141 Upton (Kate, that is) improved the health of America by unblocking millions of prostate glands.
Posted by: zombie at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (+cx5n)

_______

Actually she may have increased the number of prostate cancer victims. Fer realz.

http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (0LHZx)

160 Back from the colonoscopy. All normal. Next one in 5 years, if I still have insurance or a doctor.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:17 PM (olDqf)

Or a colon. Which, given the ass-raping the gubmint intends to force upon every American, is looking less and less likely.

Glad to hear all's well, though. ^_^

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (4df7R)

161 136 Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB)

It's a watch!

//Judas Iscariot Roberts

More seriously the only law Presidents create is Martial Law our whole Republic is fucked because of hyper-regulatory fiat.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (9jfyN)

162 155
Every single health plan in the land has the same benefits.

No, they do not. They differ based on geography, age, and sex in a
great many ways. Most of the differences, as one would now expect,
don't make a great deal of sense.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of
doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (659DL)

Thanks for putting that meme down. They're not even close to equal. Benefits vary wildly.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (x3YFz)

163 O/T Hair Plugs Joe was in CLT for a fundraiser, BUT they would not give out where it was held because?

Protestors. He did manage to fuck up traffic and piss a lot of people off, so he had that going for him.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (0FSuD)

164 EPA not letting cities install lead fire hydrants...

The biggest lead threat was always from hot water lines. Leaching from cold water lines is a much slower process. These people are imbeciles. Dangerous imbeciles.

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (Xlbr8)

165 Obama's defining trait is shifting blame. If Republicans offer him a way to take some blame, he'll give it to them.

He is blaming them now for not doing anything. He will blame them later for just wanting repeal and nothing more. He will blame them if the sun rises in the east, he will blame them if the sun sets in the west, he will blame them if the day ends in y, he will blame them till he dies.

The only way you can avoid Barack Obama blaming republicans is not to have anymore Republicans.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (OWjjx)

166 The bill should not expire ever. Isn't the Senate bill a one year delay?

Posted by: GM at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (K0tm3)

167 The Skipper had tits, too.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (4df7R)

For that, I curse thee. With spiders in your bedroom slippers.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (da5Wo)

168 Hmmm, Rush saying he is hearing Dem's won't support Upton bill.

Fine. Make 'em put it on record.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (659DL)

169 Ace: The insurance companies are currently afraid of Obama, and are still
playing footsie with him. The only way to overcome the Chicago Mob's
coercion of insurance companies is, frankly, to coerce them from the
other direction.
====

The insurance companies are also afraid of their stockholders. And the markets.

Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (HjPtV)

170
But I waved my Magic Wand! I waived it!!!!

Posted by: Prez Barry Ofairy at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (iGPSR)

171 158
we're virtually covered in boobs.

Mathematically speaking.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (x3YFz)

Fixed. Hopefully.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (da5Wo)

One can dream.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (x3YFz)

172 hes not gonna veto anything

ever seen a promise he has kept? no you havent

Posted by: Bigby's Thumb at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (CozRk)

173 Don't call my bluff...

Posted by: AmishDude at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (T0NGe)

174 119 Where's erg been lately? Shouldn't he be here to have his nose rubbed in the epic clusterfuck that is Obamacare?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:13 PM (sbV1u)

Project Spade. He'll be a little late.

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (fWAjv)

175 No fix! REPEAL. Stupid pubs! Dems are shooting at each other, shooting themselves in the foot, and totally peeing their pants. The GOP has to step in to take a bullet and change diapers.

Posted by: Havedash at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (gvqyH)

176 Great post, Ace!

Ace's key paragraph: "The "drawback" of this is that it destroys Obamacare. It undermines the
system. Yes, fine: This is what is needed. A decision must be made,
and that decision must be forced"

Absolutely. Tension has been building and we're rapidly approaching the climax. If we want to survive when the curtain drops we need to force into effect the conditions that will ensure the debate ends where we desire it to.

Can't they pass the Landrieu bill and then tack-on the one Upton conditional opening up enrollment as an amendment in the House or during conference?

I'm rust on my procedural knowledge.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (jhI6f)

177 The Skipper had tits, too.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (4df7R)

Gee.... thanks for ruining THAT childhood memory....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (lZBBB)

178 Studies used to show that frequent masturbation REDUCED the odds of prostate cancer.

Now they say masturbation increases it?

Studies are like statistics, in other words...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (7ObY1)

179 No, they do not. They differ based on geography, age, and sex in a great many ways. Most of the differences, as one would now expect, don't make a great deal of sense.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (659DL)

_________

No they don't. They are all exactly the same. The only difference is price which varies by age, geography, etc.

That's why a 72 year old man has maternity coverage. Because every plan covers the same shit.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (0LHZx)

180

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is trying to limit defections by calling on her members to consider the Democratic alternative over the GOP bill, which the White House has said it will veto.

A Democratic leadership aide in the House said the proposal is similar to one offered by Democrats in the Senate, but has some key provisions that scale back Sen. Mary Landrieu�s (R-La.) legislation.

thehill

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (IXrOn)

181 No, they do not. They differ based on geography, age, and sex in a great many ways. Most of the differences, as one would now expect, don't make a great deal of sense.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:18 PM (659DL)

That's true, but those differences are the same (yeah, I know -- makes sense) whether you buy your plan through the marketplace or direct from the insurer. The only difference is buying direct from the company means you don't get the subsidy; or at least you don't get it automatically applied.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (4df7R)

182 continue to support fully implementing the Affordable Care Act

Quadrupling down on stupid...YES!!!!!! For the win.

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (Xlbr8)

183 164 Purp at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (Xlbr

The Romans grasped it for fuck's sakes...

a bunch of neo-luddite motherfuckers who give narry a fuck to maintaining our society.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (9jfyN)

184 Pelosi is unbelievable. "Success for President Obama is success for everyone in America"

0_o

Posted by: WisRich at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (hdpay)

185 The only way you can avoid Barack Obama blaming republicans is not to have anymore Republicans.

Only a matter of time. Only a matter of time.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (23Kgq)

186 178
Studies used to show that frequent masturbation REDUCED the odds of prostate cancer.

Now they say masturbation increases it?

Studies are like statistics, in other words...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (7ObY1)

The most disturbing part is that the study/studies actually exists.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (x3YFz)

187 Ace: I can't blame the ins. co.s for taking mandates up the ass for whatever # of yrs. What should they have done?

I would propose that the way to cheaper coverage through ins. co.s: do away with as many previous mandates as possible. That would be truly radical/revolutionary. (within bounds of course.... but minimize the bounds.)

Posted by: jb at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (tByES)

188 Studies are like statistics, in other words...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:21 PM (7ObY1)

If you like your ~~butter~~..~~margarine~~..aw fuck it, nevermind.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (da5Wo)

189 Hmmm, Rush saying he is hearing Dem's won't support Upton bill.

Fine. Make 'em put it on record.

Exactly. The President said you if liked your plan, you could keep your plan. One party tried to make the President live up to that promise. One party didn't. One Party tried to prevent this disaster, one party didn't. One Party tried, 40 times, to stop this disaster before it happened. One party didn't.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (OWjjx)

190 For that, I curse thee. With spiders in your bedroom slippers.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (da5Wo)

! I just calls 'em like I sees 'em!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (4df7R)

191 Maybe erg got a cancellation letter?

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (Xlbr8)

192 "There is no "exchange plicy" and "non-exchange policy". Every policy is the same, whether in or out of the exchange. The only difference is via the exchange you get govt subsidies."

That's not true. There are legacy policies that can be bought before Dec. 31 which are basically the old policies that one used to be able to buy before Obamacare. You can still buy these policies, and they're guaranteed for a year. The problem is that they're a pretty narrow group now because that market has been throughly gutted.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (hFL/3)

193 184
Pelosi is unbelievable. "Success for President Obama is success for everyone in America"

0_o

Posted by: WisRich at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (hdpay)

She's like one of those dolls with the string you pull and just says the same stupid shit over and over and over.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (x3YFz)

194 Make the insurance companies offer the old plans to anyone and make sure that it never expire. Obamacare effectively repealed. Other than creating Obamacare high risk pools. Which is fine.

Posted by: GM at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (K0tm3)

195 Pelosi is worried.....big time.

Posted by: WisRich at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (hdpay)

196 Thanks for putting that meme down. They're not even close to equal. Benefits vary wildly.
Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:20 PM (x3YFz)

__________

You can say this all you want, it's simply not true. The plans all cover the same stuff. The only difference is price and which doctor is in the network. But as far as benefits provided, they're all the same.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (0LHZx)

197 Insurance is one of the most government regulated industries in America. Free market is not a term that can be associated with Insurnace in any fashion.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (m2CN7)

198 The most disturbing part is that the study/studies actually exists.

LOL, yeah I'd like to see the methodology there.

All you guys jack off in a cup to some Kate Upton pics. Then come back in 5 years and we'll see what's what...

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (7ObY1)

199 191
Maybe erg got a cancellation letter?

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (Xlbr

I was hoping on natural selection.

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (x3YFz)

200 O/T again.

OK lighten up and see if you can do this at home. SFW

http://tinyurl.com/q7gzpog

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (0FSuD)

201 193 tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (x3YFz)

Ken is gay, but Rico is hung like a stud....

//San Fran Barb Pelosi

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (9jfyN)

202 Back from the colonoscopy. All normal. Next one in 5 years, if I still have insurance or a doctor.

Or a colon after all this....

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (p9JxP)

203 Back from the colonoscopy. All normal. Next one in 5 years, if I still have insurance or a doctor.

In five years we'll all be consigned to the shadows, forced into back alley colonoscopies like our forefathers.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (+lsX1)

204 That's why a 72 year old man has maternity coverage. Because every plan covers the same shit.

No they do not. That maternity coverage is "optional" in plans for women under 30 (stop and think about that one).

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (659DL)

205 Effective immediately, fire hydrants must be made from cheese, so if they are used for drinking water they will also provide nutrition. Additionally,since some people are lactose intolerant or vegan, a second fire hydrant made of vegan cheese must be installed alongside all regular cheese hydrants.

Posted by: EPA at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (+H/11)

206 You can say this all you want, it's simply not true.
The plans all cover the same stuff. The only difference is price and
which doctor is in the network. But as far as benefits provided, they're
all the same.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (0LHZx)

well, isn't "Coverage" = "Price"?

Isn't that the whole freaking point?

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (x3YFz)

207 I hate to give that Landrieu scrunt anything.

We want her defeated next year.

We want every Senate D that is up next year defeated due to their support for the lie of Obamacare.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (tmFlQ)

208 >>I favor passing Upton just to see Kate Upton photoshopped somehow into this whole process.

That would be the illustrated version of the "If you like your shadenboner, you can keep it for more than 4 hours" Act, IIFC.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (SUKHu)

209 I just calls 'em like I sees 'em!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (4df7R)

Me too.

Know what I see?

That spider crawling across the ceiling above your face while you're sleeping.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (da5Wo)

210 "No they don't. They are all exactly the same. The only difference is price which varies by age, geography, etc.

That's why a 72 year old man has maternity coverage. Because every plan covers the same shit."

No, there are still differences in plans. Some cover things like bariatric surgery, and there are still plans available to Under 30s which don't require maternity coverage.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (hFL/3)

211 We're gonna slow bleed these fuckers right up to election day. In their hearts they know they're fucked they just can't bring theirselves to accept it. Yet.

Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (ugAvG)

212 That's not true. There are legacy policies that can be bought before Dec. 31 which are basically the old policies that one used to be able to buy before Obamacare. You can still buy these policies, and they're guaranteed for a year. The problem is that they're a pretty narrow group now because that market has been throughly gutted.
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:23 PM (hFL/3)

______________

VERY VERY narrow, as in virtually non-existent anymore. If they were still around, there'd be no need for a year delay since you could just go ahead and buy a policy good for 2014 not subject to Obamacare. But those policies for all intents and purposes do not exit anymore.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

213 @200

Try this one. Why does youtube do that shit?

http://tinyurl.com/p24quve

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (0FSuD)

214 Maybe erg got a cancellation letter?

Posted by: Purp

Or a warrant for his arrest.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (rSTkb)

215 If you are going to have Upton in the titled it is required that you have a photo of Upton's boobs for illustrative purposes with the caption, no not this Upton, morons.

Posted by: Jesse Pinkman, PhD Bitches! at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (kkbgQ)

216 Posted by: WisRich at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (hdpay)

She has to say that bs. She's one of the head cheerleaders-along with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (23Kgq)

217 That spider crawling across the ceiling above your face while you're sleeping.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (da5Wo)

*big, sad eyes* Why do you hate me?

*single tear rolls down cheek*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (4df7R)

218 204 Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (659DL)

Oh I have believe me.

Basically they have undermined every cornerstone of actuarial theory and got the insurance companies to go along via the "heads we win, tails they lose" bail out mechanism.

If I had one wish I'd use it to totally obliterate all contra market intervention in healthcare and obliterate the frankenstein monster of insurance.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:27 PM (9jfyN)

219 Or a colon after all this....

Posted by: rickb223

Glad to hear that. Avoid the cheese hydrants.

Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2013 12:27 PM (HjPtV)

220 No they do not. That maternity coverage is "optional" in plans for women under 30 (stop and think about that one).

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:24 PM (659DL)

____________

No they're not optional in the plans. Under 30 year olds have access to catastrophic plans that people over 30 do not have access to.

But the non-catastrophic plans available to a 30 year old or a 20 year old or a 70 year old offer the exact same benefits.

See the difference?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:27 PM (0LHZx)

221 My Grandfather (May he RIP) used to do handwriting analysis. I was always surprised by how accurate he was when he was given handwriting samples to look over. That being said, I look at Teh JEF's signature and laugh. He signs his name as a 13 year old girl would.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (32Ze2)

222 I feel so liberated today.
As if the Black Queen hath looked upon the serfs and has knighted all the Kingdom with the sword of legitimacy.

Posted by: 7 Days in May at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (j6DTo)

223 "They drank a whole bunch of rent-seeking, got into bed with Obama, and
it's the next morning and they're now horrified by their poor life
choices. 'Ef em."

This is where they start screaming"date rape"

Posted by: George Orwell at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (Vv4Go)

224 *big, sad eyes* Why do you hate me?

*single tear rolls down cheek*

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (4df7R)

Hey, I'm not the one who combined the words "tits", "has them" and "Skipper" in the same sentence, now am I?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (da5Wo)

225 220 Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:27 PM (0LHZx)

You'll have to talk over the bleeding in my ass from the double standard dildo Barry is slinging bud.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (9jfyN)

226 No they're not optional in the plans. Under 30 year olds have access to catastrophic plans that people over 30 do not have access to.

You're proving my point. The plans differ. End.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (659DL)

227 No, there are still differences in plans. Some cover things like bariatric surgery, and there are still plans available to Under 30s which don't require maternity coverage.
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:25 PM (hFL/3)

__________

Yes, under 30 year olds have access to more plans. They can buy catastrophic plans. But a 25 year old man who buys a non-catastrophic plan, has the exact same benefits as a 55 year old woman buying that plan. The only difference is how much they pay for it.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (0LHZx)

228 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:27 PM (0LHZx)

so you're saying the same plans are the same except for the plans that are not the same.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (m2CN7)

229 Sen. Mary Landrieu�s (R-La.) legislation.

---

Freudian slip on their part?

Landrieu's from a long line of Dem vote-stealers in New Orleans.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (/Crba)

230
And we must make Democrats vote to override his veto.

Nice thought but it's just that: wishful thinking.

It'll never happen. There's not enough vulnerable Democrat senators in 2014.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (tOkJB)

231
Oh holy crap..........are you kidding me.....

Oh Lord. Obama will not sign it for 3 reasons. First, he said he would veto it. If he backs down now he looks completely ineffectual, no one will ever take his threat seriously and his second term is, at that point, over. Second, if he signs it, he pisses off his left wing base and his left wing donor base....and that means no more money for OFA. Third, his minions are up there right now telling Democrats to vote no against Upton. If these idiots walk the plank, vote no and then see Obama cave........they will never, ever, ever walk a plank for him again.

So your claim is that Barry would rather veto a bipartisan bill? That's looney. He becomes 100% the villain as he flounders about in abject failure. Something has to change to fix this. If Barry does it on his own, he's going to look ineffectual times a million.

It's a nice fantasy, Mallamutt, but it probably won't happen like that. This isn't a magic sword that will kill all the Democrats forever.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (uhAkr)

232 I can't believe the amount of racism! It's overwhelming!

It's so bad I went to bed in my jammies and woke up wearing a KKK outfit...with hood. How did that happen?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 12:30 PM (oFCZn)

233 I imagine a few years from now we'll laugh about all of this new plan/expired plan stuff because plans won't matter when all of the good hospitals have been destroyed, decent doctors have fled their practices, and pharmaceutical and medical tech innovation is a a standstill.

Just look to NHS to see where this leads.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 15, 2013 12:30 PM (JRmiD)

234 Under O-Care insurance companies are essentially utility companies. They are the administrators of health insurance, selling an identical product. Just like the electricity you get is identical from Utility Company X vs Utility Company Y, your health insurance is identical from Insurance Company X vs Insurance Company Y.

The only choice you have is what letterhead do you want on your billing statement?

This is why this notion of being in or out of the exchange is silly. The exchange is just a mechanism by which to purchase the product. But the products is the same in or out of the exchange.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:31 PM (0LHZx)

235 Liberals and public at large finally seeing the light? I guess we're all racists now.

Posted by: Hoss at November 15, 2013 12:31 PM (LkCGG)

236 Just look to NHS to see where this leads.

---

You think you hate talking to people from India for tech support?

Wait until they're your new doctor because no American will take that job.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:31 PM (/Crba)

237 It's so bad I went to bed in my jammies and woke up wearing a KKK outfit...with hood. How did that happen?
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 12:30 PM (oFCZn)

That's not as embarrasing as waking up with just the hood and nothing else. Neighbors didn't like it when I went to pick up the paper.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (m2CN7)

238 161 136 Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (lZBBB)

It's a watch!

//Judas Iscariot Roberts

More seriously the only law Presidents create is Martial Law our whole Republic is fucked because of hyper-regulatory fiat.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:19 PM (9jfyN)

I was somewhat alarmed when the doc and the staff came in dressed as New Mexico Highway Patrolmen.

Then he said, "psych!"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (olDqf)

239 It took 5 years or so and a few trillion dollar failures to go from "We're all socialists now" to "We're all racists now."

Posted by: Hoss at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (LkCGG)

240 We're gonna slow bleed these fuckers right up to election day. ...
Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell

Not sure if you're talking about us or the enemy.

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (FcR7P)

241 OT "sorta"

EPA not letting cities install lead fire hydrants...

one catch almost all fire hydrants are lead based because of cost and reliability.

Your EPA overlords at work...

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:16 PM (9jfyN)
**

Unless we're drinking water from hydrants, licking said hydrants or if lead poisoning could magically jump into my dog's dick, the EPA can go FOAD.

Posted by: dananjcon at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (wmU4G)

242
He is blaming them now for not doing anything. He will blame them later for just wanting repeal and nothing more. He will blame them if the sun rises in the east, he will blame them if the sun sets in the west, he will blame them if the day ends in y, he will blame them till he dies.

This doesn't have anything to do with who Obama is blaming. It has to do with who is being blamed. Blaming Republicans for not doing anything (or wanting repeal) doesn't work.

If Republicans pass something that doesn't fix anything (which it probably won't), you'll hear about it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (uhAkr)

243 "VERY VERY narrow, as in virtually non-existent anymore. If they were still around, there'd be no need for a year delay since you could just go ahead and buy a policy good for 2014 not subject to Obamacare. But those policies for all intents and purposes do not exit anymore."

Eh, Humana has a fairly large selection of them here in Texas. By that I mean, 8 or so plans. We're seriously considering getting one. The only reason we haven't yet is that we'll be right back where we are now in a year.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (hFL/3)

244 I'm off to register Cheese Hydrant as the name of my new experimental avant-garde electronic rock music band.

Posted by: BlueStateRebel at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (7ObY1)

245 239 It took 5 years or so and a few trillion dollar failures to go from "We're all socialists now" to "We're all racists now."

---

It took a much shorter timeframe for Newsweek to go from "We're all socialists now" to "Want some fries with that?"

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (/Crba)

246 226 No they're not optional in the plans. Under 30 year olds have access to catastrophic plans that people over 30 do not have access to.

You're proving my point. The plans differ. End.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)-also drooling imbecile incapable of doing algebra or something at November 15, 2013 12:29 PM (659DL)

__________

Let's try again..

Under 30 year olds have access to more plans. A 25 year old can purchase either Plan 1 or Plan 2. A 35 year old only has access to Plan 1.

Both the 25 and 35 year old get the exact same benefits with Plan 1.

And a 22 year old and 29 year old get the exact same benefits with Plan 2.

Within each plan, the benefits are identical. The only variable, is cost.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (0LHZx)

247 236 Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:31 PM (/Crba)

Best Doc I ever had was a short Indian named "George John"

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (9jfyN)

248 Creating that formal veto document Photoshop is going to be yet another embarrassment for the JEF.

Posted by: Moochelle O at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (ztKLQ)

249 Hey, I'm not the one who combined the words "tits", "has them" and "Skipper" in the same sentence, now am I?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 15, 2013 12:28 PM (da5Wo)

Harumph!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (4df7R)

250 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (olDqf)

It could have been worse....a Reggie Love mask.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (oJ5Fd)

251 Please see your doctor if your schadenboner lasts more than 4 hours.

If you still have a doctor, that is. And don't expect us to cover you for it, because your insurance is cancelled. And you can't get new insurance, because that's all screwed up. And without new insurance, you owe the federal government a fine.

Hey, that schadenboner went away on its own! You're welcome!

Posted by: We're From The Federal Government, And We're Here To Help. Ourselves. at November 15, 2013 12:34 PM (DLu2s)

252 I imagine a few years from now we'll laugh about all of this new plan/expired plan stuff because plans won't matter when all of the good hospitals have been destroyed, decent doctors have fled their practices, and pharmaceutical and medical tech innovation is a a standstill.

Just look to NHS to see where this leads.

Go long on chicken bones & tea leaves.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:34 PM (p9JxP)

253 Havedash said: No fix! REPEAL. Stupid pubs! Dems are shooting at
each other, shooting themselves in the foot, and totally peeing their
pants. The GOP has to step in to take a bullet and change diapers

No, fucking no. When will conservatives smarten the fuck up?

If we push repeal the story instantly change from "Obamacare is a total and unmitigated disaster" (today's NYPost cover) to something else entirely: "Republicans want to take away your healthcare -- see this single, poor latino mother!!"

Only an idiot would expend energy pulling down something which is already crashing down. We just guide the process, we set boundaries so that when it falls it falls where we want it. Think of cutting down a tree and tying ropes to pull the pieces where you want them to end up (and not on your house!).

Think strategically.

We push policy decisions which expedite the unraveling of Obamacare organically so that it becomes unworkable. Either it just collapses; or it's collapsed by voter revolt in 2014/2016; or -- IMHO, in the best case -- it's so bad that Obama tries to change it via executive fiat and we can force a fatal blow in the Supreme Court.

Just remember, the Court has already supported the law and maintained it's perception of being impartial and fair on this law. If it goes back to them again, and they knock it down 5-4 when 50-60% of the country hates it -- it's a HUGE win not only for us, as it's politically clean, but the court maintains it's perceived impartiality.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 15, 2013 12:34 PM (jhI6f)

254 I stand by my prediction.

Democrats will vote for the bill, but not to override a veto, claiming the latter is not "bipartisan."

They will try to split the baby.

Then after engaging in their standard infant sacrifice, they'll try to have it both ways (a yes vote for the bill, but no veto override)

Posted by: tsrblke PhD(c) (No Really!) at November 15, 2013 12:34 PM (GaqMa)

255 Eh, Humana has a fairly large selection of them here in Texas. By that I mean, 8 or so plans. We're seriously considering getting one. The only reason we haven't yet is that we'll be right back where we are now in a year.
Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (hFL/3)

____________

Are you sure they're actually valid for 2014? There are still plans sold now for the rest of 2013 that become null and void in 2014.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:34 PM (0LHZx)

256 Folks, let me be clear, I never said you couldn't keep your plan. Isn't it your plan to remain healthy? You can keep your plan!

You're welcome.

Posted by: Barky The Magical Fuckstick at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (FcR7P)

257 Within each plan, the benefits are identical. The only variable, is cost.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (0LHZx)

Are all the deductibles identical?

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (m2CN7)

258 We're gonna slow bleed these fuckers right up to election day. ...
Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell

Not sure if you're talking about us or the enemy.

Yes.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (p9JxP)

259 I'm loving all this Dem infighting. Landrieu in particular was going to rely on her family name and the large black population in her district and ally herself with the president, embrace him and his signature legislation haha. She's in deep shit, and this bill is proof the wheels are coming off the wagon.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (Y92Nd)

260 247 236 Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:31 PM (/Crba)

Best Doc I ever had was a short Indian named "George John"

---

Not saying anything about the quality as much as the amount of bitching people do when dealing with a thick accent.

The most bitching you'll hear from college students usually comes from someone taking classes from a foreign professor or TA in a subject like calculus, making it hard for people to follow them in class.

I don't think this was as much of a problem with the marketing students I knew who had a French professor, as they kept wondering why she kept talking about "fuckus groups".

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (/Crba)

261 We have been informed that making fire hydrants out of cheese is impractical and/or physically impossible. Tough shit. Just do it, or you'll find out why the EPA was buying so many bullets.

Posted by: EPA at November 15, 2013 12:37 PM (+H/11)

262 Are all the deductibles identical?
Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (m2CN7)

____________

That's part of the cost variation. The benefits are identical. The only variance is cost/deductible combinations. Higher premium = lower deductible or vice versa. But the benefits don't change.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 15, 2013 12:37 PM (0LHZx)

263 250 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:32 PM (olDqf)

It could have been worse....a Reggie Love mask.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2013 12:33 PM (oJ5Fd)

Anesthesiologist told me he had a patient who wanted him to shave his body. I said that that is NOT what I wanted to hear before a colonoscopy!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2013 12:37 PM (olDqf)

264 214 Maybe erg got a cancellation letter?

Posted by: Purp

Or a warrant for his arrest.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2013 12:26 PM (rSTkb)

I think Erg is still on Palin Steele's policy.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:37 PM (0FSuD)

265 260 Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 15, 2013 12:35 PM (/Crba)

The accent made me pay closer attention and ask more questions...

ANYWAY if we're really going to make America look like the 2d and 3d world then we may as well get used to it...

India is gonna have a manned space program before us.

Thanks America.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:38 PM (9jfyN)

266 What a minute...you mean that the president actually signs documents entitled "Veto Threat"?

The Federal Executive Response Form Library (FERFL) contains a lot of other useful forms too, including "Icy Glare" and "WTF?"

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2013 12:38 PM (8ZskC)

267 But the products is the same in or out of the exchange.

The law specifies minimum offerings, not maximums. You can offer anything you want above the minimum and charge more for it

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:38 PM (Xlbr8)

268 261 EPA at November 15, 2013 12:37 PM (+H/11)

My Balonium Fire Electrical plant works gangbusters!

Thanks EPA

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:39 PM (9jfyN)

269 112 Hard to get excited about anything from a guy who thinks he knows better than me what light bulbs I should use in my own home.
---

Heh. I thought the same thing.

I also noticed ace scored Landrieu's bill higher than Upton's, that also doesn't surprise me.

Posted by: Y-not on her last nerve reserve at November 15, 2013 12:40 PM (zDsvJ)

270 The benefits are identical.

Then you'll have no problem citing say...3 different vendors offering absolutely identical policy product.

I'll take two examples to make it easier for you.

Proof by repeated assertion != data

Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:40 PM (Xlbr8)

271 The urge to be clever is too fucking strong for politicians to resist.

Republicans should not be offering any other bill than a straight repeal of this entire shitburger.

"You want to keep your plan? Let us repeal this fucking soup sandwich and you can. You want to keep your plan for a year, just long enough for the Democrats to buy your vote before kicking you to the exchange curb AGAIN and tripling your insurance premiums? Then let the Democrats 'fix' Obamacare with this meaningless bill."

The problem with Obamacare is that it is fucking UNWORKABLE. There is no "fix" because it can't be fixed.

Trying to be clever with these stupid bills won't work in our favor. It NEVER works in our favor.

Take a principled stand that people can understand:

"We tried to defund this thing, going so far as to let the government shut down, because we KNEW this was going to hurt millions of Americans, which it has. And millions more will be hurt when their employers are FORCED by Obamacare to drop their insurance plans or lay off workers.

This was a shit idea. We told you it was a shit idea, and now you're seeing the results. Let us get rid of it."

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 12:41 PM (CJjw5)

272 Proof by repeated assertion != data
Posted by: Purp at November 15, 2013 12:40 PM (Xlbr

Says you.

Posted by: EPA at November 15, 2013 12:42 PM (+H/11)

273 We're the cure for schadenboner syndrome. You guys ready for some immigration reform?

Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell at November 15, 2013 12:42 PM (ugAvG)

274 Hey bloggers et al: More highlights of Obama's "trillion dollar lesson's from my failures" please:

Stimulus: 'projects weren't as shovel-ready as we hoped."

Ocare: 'Building [website] would have been easier in private sector. Government is inefficient with 40 pages of regulations related to building site'

Posted by: Hoss at November 15, 2013 12:43 PM (gTnJn)

275 teh photo

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4828884427604327pid=1.7

Posted by: Prez Barry Ofairy at November 15, 2013 12:43 PM (iGPSR)

276 The law specifies minimum offerings, not maximums. You can offer anything you want above the minimum and charge more for it

In that case, I want flamethrowers included so I can take care of my lawn if I'm confined to a wheelchair.

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2013 12:43 PM (FcR7P)

277 Hey republicans!

You can't fix FUBAR!

stoopid jackwagons

Repeal or do nothing.

and I went to public school

Posted by: Fred Q. at November 15, 2013 12:44 PM (W6iIX)

278
arggg....photo and sock fail. a double bogey.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 12:44 PM (iGPSR)

279 This was a shit idea. We told you it was a shit idea, and now you're seeing the results. Let us get rid of it."

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 12:41 PM (CJjw5)

That's not sufficiently clever for the geniuses who we have elected to higher office in America.

And it's the truth, is short and snappy, uses words people understand, and it's not in legalese.

So....they definitely won't use it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2013 12:44 PM (oJ5Fd)

280 >>Take a principled stand that people can understand:

As you said, EoJ, they think we are too stupid to understand anything. Our Betters know what's best for us.

Posted by: Y-not on her last nerve reserve at November 15, 2013 12:45 PM (zDsvJ)

281 >>>>This was a shit idea. We told you it was a shit idea, and now you're seeing the results. Let us get rid of it."

*

What he said^^^

Posted by: dananjcon at November 15, 2013 12:45 PM (wmU4G)

282
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 12:41 PM (CJjw5)

Yep. 'Destroying' ObamaCare in part or 'fixing' it isn't going to do any good for anybody. People are still going to lose their plans, there will still be chaos.

We need to push to go back to the old system. The old system is better and not chaos. We shouldn't be talking about the old system's 'problems.' It's better than this. Let's get back to there.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:45 PM (uhAkr)

283 And we must make Democrats vote to override his veto.

Or, in a perfect world, vote to sustain.

Posted by: VADM(Red) Cuthbert Collingwood (Mentioned in Despatches) at November 15, 2013 12:45 PM (O7OxF)

284 271 That's what I said this morning, EoJ, just not as eloquently. I say give this a few more months to really implode and the Dems will be begging to vote for a repeal. The outcry of their constituents will be too much to ignore.

This is about a step to restore our liberty, not make TFG look bad.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:45 PM (LSJmV)

285 274 Hoss at November 15, 2013 12:43 PM (gTnJn)

He's had at least 7 Krugatons worth of fuck ups there Hoss

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2013 12:46 PM (9jfyN)

286 None of the two will work. It's only more chaos. The way to end a nightmare is to wake up, not open another closet with a monster in it. Repeal!

Posted by: RS at November 15, 2013 12:46 PM (YAGV/)

287 Pelosi is unbelievable. "Success for President Obama is success for everyone in America"

0_o

Posted by: WisRich at November 15, 2013 12:22 PM (hdpay)

The botox needles obviously penetrated her tiny brain a long time ago.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2013 12:47 PM (1Jaio)

288 That's what I said this morning, EoJ, just not as eloquently. I say give this a few more months to really implode and the Dems will be begging to vote for a repeal. The outcry of their constituents will be too much to ignore.

---------------------

But First, They Will Blow Us.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2013 12:47 PM (CJjw5)

289 I think people are convincing me we need to be real careful here and take some time to destroy this fucker. Just running right out to a microphone and screaming repeal isn't good enough. Let the slow bleed set in and eventually the arteries will collapse and the heart will stop.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 12:47 PM (oFCZn)

290
None of the two will work. It's only more chaos. The way to end a nightmare is to wake up, not open another closet with a monster in it. Repeal!

But Obama will veto a Repeal bill! Except the claim is that Obama will veto either of these two plans also...

I don't get it.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 15, 2013 12:48 PM (uhAkr)

291 271 EoJ brings the common sense to this thread.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at November 15, 2013 12:48 PM (Y92Nd)

292 I thought in the new United Socialist States of America, only the President had the authority to write or change laws?

That's what the press conference was about yesterday, right?

Why doesn't Congress get back to the important business of naming post offices and amnesty.

Posted by: Damiano the Economic Traitor at November 15, 2013 12:48 PM (j0wOO)

293
The insurance companies are currently afraid of Obama, and are still
playing footsie with him. The only way to overcome the Chicago Mob's
coercion of insurance companies is, frankly, to coerce them from the
other direction.

We may not be able to repeal Obamacare in one swoop, but we can
repeal it piece-by-piece, exempting this class of the population, then
this one, then the next one, until no one at all is in Obamacare except
the uninsurable.

At that point, the American people can decide whether or not it wants
to accept huge new spending levels to insure the uninsurable, or not.
But at least the public will have an honest accounting of the
actual costs, as opposed to Obamacare's current scheme, in which Obama
imposes hidden taxes on specific citizens to pay for his boondoggle.

EXCELLENT ANALYSIS, ACE

Posted by: Chants at November 15, 2013 12:48 PM (cdS5P)

294 "Landrieu in particular was going to rely on her family name and the large black population in her district"

Good plan. Except Senator Landrieu's district has been gerrymandered.

Posted by: MSNBC Expert Commentator at November 15, 2013 12:49 PM (O7OxF)

295
http://tinyurl.com/k7a6ufc

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2013 12:49 PM (iGPSR)

296 Any bill coming out of congress should include the following provision:

All cancellations or modifications of rates or coverage in insurance plans that start in or continue into the next year have to be announced by October 15th of the current year.

Don't let the bastards delay next year's pain until after the election.

Posted by: Pluskat's Dog at November 15, 2013 12:49 PM (YN3Q4)

297 Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 12:47 PM (oFCZn)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Absolutely. Making a move right now is liking knealing in the victory formation with eight minutes remaining in the third quarter.

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (LSJmV)

298 By evil republicans.

Posted by: MSNBC Expert Commentator at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (O7OxF)

299 EoJ brings the common sense to this thread.

The Light Opera-fu is strong in this one.

Posted by: Obi Wan Kenobi at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (8ZskC)

300 President Barack Obama�s credibility may have taken a big hit with voters, but he�s also in serious danger of permanently losing the trust of Democrats in Congress. The Obamacare debacle has been bad enough that it�s tough for Democrats to take on faith that the president can fix the problems. His one-time allies are no longer sure that it�s wise to follow him into battle, leaving Obama and his law not only vulnerable to existing critics, but open to new attacks from his own party.

�I don�t know how he f�-ed this up so badly,� said one House Democrat who has been very supportive of Obama in the past.

Posted by: Ralph Malph at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (e8kgV)

301 Rumor has it that Obama is so tone-deaf, it took him 15 tries before he was able to sing "Na-na-na Na, Hey Jude," on key.

Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (UzPAd)

302 has the exact same benefits>>

I think language is the problem here. The same diseases, mental health and other things are covered. But pay out differently. With insurance my only benefit is when they start paying. So the benefits to me are quite different between plans.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (tf9Ne)

303 I saw Nationalizing prostitution open for Deep Purple in 1972.

Posted by: Trav at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (m8PQQ)

304 Who will save your soul after all the lies that you told, boy?
Who will save your soul if you won't save your own?

Posted by: Jewel's Fucked Up Grill at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (/Crba)

305 But First, They Will Blow Us. Posted by: Empire of Jeff

http://tinyurl.com/npsqetj

Ummmm. NO. Nyet. Nein. Nunca.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (JpC1K)

306 Osama bin Laden is dead and so is your healthcare coverage.

Posted by: Barky O'Genius at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (8ZskC)

307 Posted by: Ralph Malph at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (e8kgV)

Hop in the barrel, pardner.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:51 PM (JpC1K)

308 This is what's coming for insurance executives that don't play the game.

http://tinyurl.com/n5nsegn

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 15, 2013 12:52 PM (0FSuD)

309 knealing = kneeling. Sigh...

Posted by: Countrysquire at November 15, 2013 12:52 PM (LSJmV)

310

Obama in '08: My Weakness Is Being Messy, Disorganized

theweeklystandard.com

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 15, 2013 12:53 PM (IXrOn)

311 President Barack Obama�s credibility may have taken a
big hit with voters, but he�s also in serious danger of permanently
losing the trust of Democrats in Congress. The Obamacare debacle has
been bad enough that it�s tough for Democrats to take on faith that the
president can fix the problems. His one-time allies are no longer sure
that it�s wise to follow him into battle, leaving Obama and his law not
only vulnerable to existing critics, but open to new attacks from his
own party.

�I don�t know how he f�-ed this up so badly,� said one House Democrat who has been very supportive of Obama in the past.

Posted by: Ralph Malph at November 15, 2013 12:50 PM (e8kgV)

LIVs: You have no idea how stupid and gullible we are

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2013 12:53 PM (1Jaio)

312 "Success for President Obama is success for everyone in America"

0_o

Posted by: WisRich

And then ... back to the attic.

Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2013 12:54 PM (HjPtV)

313 And then ... back to the attic.

Posted by: mrp at November 15, 2013 12:54 PM (HjPtV)

Is the attic like the barrel but maybe roomier?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 15, 2013 12:55 PM (oFCZn)

314 Don't forget that a lesson to be screaming from the mountain tops: expect these kinds of bills in perpetuity based on whatever the outrage du jour is.

Ie Americans need to be reminded when you put the reins of an industry in the hands of politicians expect not just that government is incompetent and ineffecient - but that your product becomes what they hate most: politicized. They will be held captive to capricious motivations of pandering and favor seeking.

Posted by: Hoss at November 15, 2013 12:55 PM (Fw/gZ)

315 "Success for President Obama is success for everyone in America"
Ah. This is obviously some strange usage of the word "success" that I hadn't previously been aware of.

Posted by: Arthur Dent at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (+H/11)

316 The President does not have the authority to abrogate contracts created under the law as it was at the time the contract was signed...

136. Romeo

Remember Obama's first move as POTUS was breaking contract law re: auto bailout. Nothing new to him.

True enough, the President has NOT the authority to abrogate contracts. But until "Because I Could" is no more, there it is. In your face.

Posted by: OMoobaCare at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (MhA4j)

317 Nood

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (JpC1K)

318 Nood up

Posted by: rickb223 at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (p9JxP)

319 Instead of a fix, Republicans should pass a free market based replacement for Obamacare. Make the Democrats vote against that. Make the 2014 elections a choice between a simple, free market health system and the Obamacare kluge.

Posted by: Raul Johnson at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (5rdqb)

320 I am appalled that the Administration has imposed this massive, sweeping legislative takeover that implements socialist policies, makes individual responsibility illegal and prohibits Americans from freely choosing options best for their unique situation.

This is nothing more than a ponzi scheme, designed to divert money from hard working Americans to government coffers and a blatant attempt to buy votes from target constituencies.

Rather than protecting freedoms, we have made every American a slave and dependent to the Federal government.

Oh well. We'll fix it.

Posted by: 1940s Republicans re: Social Security at November 15, 2013 12:58 PM (j0wOO)

321 the gov't should be removed from healthcare and insurance all together....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at November 15, 2013 12:58 PM (8v/hq)

322 If under 30's have access to plans over 30's do not???

Blatant Age Discrimination?

Interesting.... didn't know that one...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 12:59 PM (lZBBB)

323 More pain is necessary. Much more. The longer we wait, the higher price the Dems will pay.

Posted by: John Boehner and Mitch McConnell at November 15, 2013 12:59 PM (ugAvG)

324 Pro/Con : Up/Lan

Rather, win/win rescind all.

Impeach the POTUS for signing and insisting on this unconstitutional law. No facelifts. No cosmetic big boobs to make it less ugly. Just X it.

Posted by: OMoobaCare at November 15, 2013 12:59 PM (MhA4j)

325 319. Absolutely.

Night v. Day

Posted by: OMoobaCare at November 15, 2013 01:00 PM (MhA4j)

326 Any bill passed by republicans - even if it destroys Obamacare forever by changing plans, will be the reason Obamacare failed by 2014 according to the media.

It will be hammered every night by democrats on the airwaves - the history will be changed from Obamacare failing to Obamacare working until the republicans broke it.

We laugh today - "Nobody would buy that garbage"... but in 2014 the LIV will have forgotten, and will accept this new history.

Repeal all or none ... the time to strike is now - make democrats own this and do not give them your hand to allow them to pull you into this fire. Put the democrats on record as supporting either all or none of this - don't let them pick and choose what to blame republicans for.

Posted by: Reality Man at November 15, 2013 01:00 PM (obXkJ)

327 Posted by: Raul Johnson at November 15, 2013 12:57 PM (5rdqb)

Yup, make all health related costs non taxable.... if either paid directly or via an insurance premium, or whether paid by company or individual...

Pass a Health cost equalization law, where for a specific procedure you cannot make one person or entity pay more than another... (ie, all insurance co., Government, or individual pay the same price for a given thing)...

Then get out of the way of the Free market...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2013 01:03 PM (lZBBB)

328 Our plan is the only plan which guarantees our release. Let the Dems twist in the wind until they beg for repeal.

Posted by: The Kraken wing of the GOP at November 15, 2013 01:07 PM (ugAvG)

329 If we force the old policies and force the old rates, how is that not Chavez/Maduro territory?

Posted by: OCBill at November 15, 2013 01:15 PM (rFipM)

330 139
I disagree. The best solution is repeal now.
You would be surprised how quickly insurance companies (unlike the govt.) could get up and running to provide replacement plans to the people they cancelled. And, they could do so in time to be protected from much (if not all - of the financial fallout predicted).
Right now the most reasonable thing to do for everyone's sake is to repeal Obamacare.
So let's get on with demanding repeal - not pursuing this silly gamesmanship. I have zero confidence that our side will win these political machinations. And when we demand repeal, lets have some free market-based reforms ready to take its place.

Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2013 01:16 PM (Hd5n8)

331 Upton vs. Landrieu?

Upton, by a mile. She's hot. I don't even want to think of Landrieu in body paint.

Posted by: red speck at November 15, 2013 02:59 PM (9/Ug/)

332 The insurance companies were bludgeoned into "accepting" the ACA, the alternative being the industry just being destroyed. Democrats controlled the House, 60 votes in the Senate, and the White House. They had a gun to the head of the industry.

Insurance executives have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders to preserve and earn the best possible return on their equity, NOT to save the Republican Party or America from the fruits of their own follies.

If you are out to punish the insurance industry, you're just as much a socialist as the Democrats. You just have different cronies.

Posted by: Adjoran at November 15, 2013 03:18 PM (473jB)

333 331
Upton vs. Landrieu?

Upton, by a mile. She's hot. I don't even want to think of Landrieu in body paint.

Posted by: red speck at November 15, 2013 02:59 PM (9/Ug/)

Maxine Waters in a thong. All oiled up.

Have a great day!

Posted by: tangonine at November 15, 2013 03:36 PM (x3YFz)

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