Lunchtime Silly: No, The GOP Isn't Advising Lisa Murkowski On How To Run As A Libertarian (or Democrat)<br>And Apologies, Allah Didn't Say That

Lunchtime Silly: No, The GOP Isn't Advising Lisa Murkowski On How To Run As A Libertarian (or Democrat)
And Apologies, Allah Didn't Say That

Pure foolishness, he's doing no such thing, he's going up there to reassure her she can still suck off the tasty teat of the political establishment if she concedes her loss.

It's silly to even postulate otherwise.

Clarification [DrewM.]: Ace just emailed from a secure, undisclosed location and asked me to update this post to clarify that in an update to his post, Allah makes it clear he thinks the NRSC lawyer is heading to Alaska to advice Murkowski on options related to "recount, court battle, etc" (which is why it exists). No one thinks the RNSC is trying to help Murkowski become a Libertarian.

Sean Cairncross, the general counsel of the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, is headed to Alaska at the request of Sen. Lisa Murkowski to help provide guidance to the GOP incumbent finds herself trailing attorney Joe Miller by roughly 1,600 votes…
Committee sources insisted that too much should not be read into Cairncross’ presence in Alaska — only that the NRSC is an incumbent-retention committee and, as such, provides assistance when Senators ask for it.
As evidence that the committee is not putting all of its chips on Murkowski, a GOP source tells the Fix that Rob Jesmer, the bespectacled executive director of the NRSC, spoke by phone with a top Miller aide yesterday — making clear that if he wins the election the committee will support him wholeheartedly.

She asked him to advise her, so he's going to advise her, as is proper -- she remains a Republican senator at the moment, right? It's not like we just voted to make her persona non grata.

The GOP is going to accede to every Murkowski request, to make nice-nice and be all supportive and reassuring... except for one request.

Added [DrewM.]: Last night I emailed Scott Kohlhaas, who is listed as Chairman of the Alaska Libertarian Party and is running for the Alaska State House asking for a statement on the Murkowski/Libertarian situation.

I will tell you that it has been reported that David Haase would be willing to step down. If this is true, our executive committee would decide who to replace him with for November.
There are many considerations here, including a chance at the first elected Libertarian U.S. Senator in our party's history. There is also my race to consider and what impact if any it would have on my chances to defeat the longest serving Democrat in the Alaska House. There is no Republican on the ballot.
Ironically, just yesterday I did agree to "Caucus" with the Republicans if I am elected. My friend Eric will be doing a story on that at LibertarianRepublican.net later this evening.
Frankly, if pressed on the matter, my inclination at this moment is to vote yes.

I followed up to ask if he knew of any discussions between the Libertarian Party and either Sen. Murkowski or her people. I haven't heard back yet.

Hey, I Screwed The Pooch [ace]: Back now.

I misread Allah and accused him of silliness he didn't intend, as Drew clarified.

I would note that Lisa Murkowski is still a serving Republican, duly elected in 2004, and as such has the right to advice on election issues from the GOP's lawyer.

This does not indicate endorsement of her. It indicates she has the right to advice and that right is being honored.

It also indicates that Murkowski can, if she wants, blow up the race and run as a Libertarian, in which case there is a damn good chance the seat goes Democratic. There is then a major piece of diplomacy to be accomplished here.

Look, Murkowski is in shock. She never saw this coming (because she probably reads Dave Wiegel's girlfriend on amateur online webzine Slate.) She is in the denial state of grief, or bargaining, or whatever. Point is, right now she's angry and thinking about all sorts of nutty crap and it's the GOP's job to talk her down from the ledge.

It makes no sense that the GOP would throw over Miller. What does it get them? It gets them:

1) A base angry at them

2) The tea party convinced 3rd party is the only way

3) A weaker candidate than Miller

Now, what does screwing over the voters for Murkowski get them?

1) They get to keep the white-hot charisma, irreplaceable leadership and wide-ranging policy imagination of the Idea Factory that is Lisa Murkowski.

What is the percentage here? What do they gain by screwing you over? Absolutely nothing and a whole lot of bad.

They are trying to reassure her they are all still friends and so on. She feels betrayed; it's important, emotionally, she not have some burning grudge against the party and say "to hell with them all, I'll help elect the Democrat."

And they also have to convince her the game isn't rigged against her. Just as many of you are hopping mad and ready to quit the party over the idea that the "establishment" has fixed the game so that you can't win, she also needs to know that nothing has been fixed against her, or she'll quit the party, in which case there's a good chance we'll see Senator What's-His-Name-Democrat and the big "victory" here will be nothing but pushing Murkowski out in favor of a liberal.

Miller is a better candidate in virtually all ways than Murkowski. The GOP is not so stupid as to have failed to notice this. Nor is it lost on them that he actually won the race without any money or establishment connections.

Be calm. All is well.

As Aunty Entity explained... In Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, political expert Aunty Entity explained the deal -- when it's family, you need to be careful. Explaining why and how Mad Max must kill Blaster...

Aunty Entity: This is no enemy. It's almost family.
Max: Oh, I see, real civilized!
Aunty Entity: The reasons don't concern you, only the conditions. Do you want the deal or not?
Max: Mmm
[nods in agreement]
The Collector: The first is, no one knows you're working for Aunty. You hit him, you go. The second is, it's a fair fight. The third is, it's to the death.
Max: Who's the bunny?

This has to be perceived as fair (and, actually, be fair). And treating Murkowski in a manner that is objectively unfair is the surest route to getting a Democrat elected.

Posted by: Ace at 12:37 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 hmmmmmmm

Posted by: elspeth at August 26, 2010 12:39 PM (0AkWH)

2 I saw her on TV this morning at the gym with no sound. She looked like she was sounding exceptionally shrill.
Anyone know what she weas actaully saying?

Posted by: Gunslinger at August 26, 2010 12:40 PM (Zi+FQ)

3 Agreed. NRSC isn't that dumb.

Posted by: Countrysquire at August 26, 2010 12:40 PM (e910j)

4 Check the guys luggage. He may have a horse head in there.

Posted by: Moi at August 26, 2010 12:40 PM (Ez4Ql)

5 More silly shit:

I know it’s a stretch, but maybe this is what he meant by recovery:

Foreclosures fall but those who have discovered they don’t actually have to pay for shit rises.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at August 26, 2010 12:41 PM (RkRxq)

6 It's not like we just voted to make her persona non grata.

Shit, I didn't realize that was an option. I'd go for that for every incumbent.

Posted by: Bomber at August 26, 2010 12:42 PM (qzoN5)

7 Obviously, this is proof positive that the voters still reject the failed Bush era policies. Expect Nancy Pelosi to drag out the humongous gavel to begin the opening session of her next term.

Posted by: Typical Lefty at August 26, 2010 12:42 PM (IhHdM)

8 Hopefully he's there to advise her on how to bow out gracefully and to advise her that she really will be persona non grata if she tries to run as a Libertarian.

Also, you have to admire Sarah Palin for single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making.

Posted by: Shivv at August 26, 2010 12:43 PM (N3lkZ)

9 The first thing she needs to do is make a tinfoil hat to block the federal governments mind control rays.

Posted by: Alex Jones at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (9cflz)

10
Agreed. NRSC isn't that dumb.

O, ye of little faith.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (5aa4z)

11 I agree this is the right move. "Abandoning" her would give her an excuse for running as a third party candidate. And I'd rather have the RNSC advising her than some guy sent by George Soros.

Posted by: buzz at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (i27M5)

12 I left some nice fish on the hood of her car in the spirit of unity.

Posted by: Sarah Palin at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (fwSHf)

13 I want this to be true.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (wuv1c)

14 Say it ain't so!

Lisa promised a pound of Northern Lights.

Damn, that would of been a great high for a month!

Posted by: "David" Haase at August 26, 2010 12:44 PM (BP6Z1)

15 I don't think that's necessarily what he's saying.

She hasn't conceded the primary yet. Perhaps the lawyer is there to advise her on what she can do with absentee ballots and so forth.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 26, 2010 12:45 PM (FkKjr)

16 Also, you have to admire Sarah Palin for single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making.

Lacked panache.

Posted by: The Bolsheviks at August 26, 2010 12:45 PM (5aa4z)

17 I hope he's bringing some of that sweet pay-off spliff.

Posted by: David (L) at August 26, 2010 12:45 PM (pUfK9)

18
Maybe the National Reichwing Committee is smart enough to realize Alaskans won't vote for some extreme tea bagger. Moderates will take the day in 2010.

Posted by: stupid typical fucking moonbat© at August 26, 2010 12:46 PM (uFokq)

19 If the GOP was worth anything the lawyer would be going up there to give her advice for the end of the vote counting and tell her she's through if she switches parties. And that's it.

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 12:46 PM (i3PJU)

20 3
Agreed. NRSC isn't that dumb.

Posted by: Countrysquire at August 26, 2010 12:40 PM (e910j)

Don't sell them short

Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Team, Bacon Raconteur at August 26, 2010 12:47 PM (eCAn3)

21 Though in fairness, I guess, this is not the GOP. But still.

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 12:47 PM (i3PJU)

22 16
Also, you have to admire Sarah Palin for single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making.

Lacked panache.

Posted by: The Bolsheviks at August 26, 2010 12:45 PM (5aa4z)

I'll settle for missing teeth and multiple amputations. I'm way past wanting panache.

Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Team, Bacon Raconteur at August 26, 2010 12:48 PM (eCAn3)

23 What #15 said. I was concerned that the NRSC would rather have a cross-the-aisle bobblehead in the Senate than a Palinist.

Posted by: Zimriel at August 26, 2010 12:48 PM (9Sbz+)

24 But but but Allahpundit is a great blogger!

Of course the NRSC won't tell her to do this. Even I don't believe that and I'm pretty much done with the NRSC. But sheesh... all this "let's make nice-nice and treat Murky with kid gloves and stroke her little head..."

We've got close to 17% real unemployment, trillions in deficits, Iran fueling it's reactor, medicine going Soviet, and we have to spend time patting this little woman's greasy pate so she feels better? Fuck her.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:48 PM (AZGON)

25 Here, suck this.

Posted by: 310 million teats at August 26, 2010 12:49 PM (+sBB4)

26 Ace, Where in the article does it say Murkowski requested his advice?

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:49 PM (wuv1c)

27
Help retire tired re-tread pols. Get them OFF the public tit. Now.
...and their expensive Clair McCaskill staff too.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 26, 2010 12:49 PM (0fzsA)

28 Also, you have to admire Sarah Palin for single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making.

Posted by: Shivv at August 26, 2010 12:43 PM

I musta missed this. Did the Divine Sarah run for the AK Senate seat? I heard rumors there was some guy called "Miller" or something involved, but that's just me.

The backstory sounds suspiciously like a girl-on-girl catfight, with each combatant saying "Alaska is mine, bitch!"

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 12:49 PM (Ulu3i)

29 No need to fly all the way up there.

I could have provided the proper guidance over the phone....

Posted by: TXMarko at August 26, 2010 12:50 PM (0FcCH)

30 so, a suitcase full of cash is being presented to the queento avoid another florida fiasco. hmmm, couldn't the nsrcc just get her drunk at the strip club, take some incriminating pictures and call it a night. or is this how we did it before the economy became flush with obama money.

Posted by: befuddled at August 26, 2010 12:50 PM (xJU23)

31 nevermind, just read the whole thing which implies they send people up when they request help, but didn't specifically mention that she requested it. I guess you have to infer it was at her request, which is reasonable.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:50 PM (wuv1c)

32 Anyone want to take bets on if she'll bolt the party?
What other jobs could Murkowski get in Alaska politics?
I guess she could run for the other senate seat. How many congressmen do they have? 2? aren't they already filled with republican incumbants.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (wuv1c)

33 Ben, first paragraph of the excerpt:

Sean Cairncross, the general counsel of the National Republican
Senatorial Campaign Committee, is headed to Alaska at the request of
Sen. Lisa Murkowski

No inference necessary.

Posted by: Bomber at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (qzoN5)

34 The ghey bone in AP's head grows larger by the day.

Posted by: Barbarian at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (EL+OC)

35 @28
Isn't this a reference to Palin endorsing Miller? Am I wrong about this?

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (AZGON)

36 But what Allahlunkhead is saying is just dumb. I could see the NRSC advising someone to run as a Libertarian if the R candidate was disqualified a week before the election, or if the primary voters voted for David Duke. But Joe Miller is not dead and he's not David Duke, much as the media would like him to be.

Posted by: Zimriel at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (9Sbz+)

37 I guess I'll apply the wait and see here.

Posted by: Vic at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (/jbAw)

38 Never underestimate the stupidity of an elected Republicans

Posted by: Old grizzled gym coach at August 26, 2010 12:53 PM (QBQcg)

39 We are just guessing and stuff

Posted by: Journolistic ethics at August 26, 2010 12:53 PM (+sBB4)

40 only that the NRSC is an incumbent-retention committee

Say what?

If that's true, then that committee needs to be dissolved, immediately.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 12:53 PM (Qp4DT)

41 Maybe the National Reichwing Committee is smart
enough to realize Alaskans won't vote for some extreme tea bagger.
Moderates will take the day in 2010.

Posted by: stupid typical fucking moonbat© at August 26, 2010 12:46 PM (uFokq)
Thank you for agreeing.We need comity and understanding, or else Alaska will elect a Democrat for sure.

Posted by: "Bob the Concern Troll" at August 26, 2010 12:53 PM (BP6Z1)

42 The GOP is going to accede to every Murkowski request, to make nice-nice and be all supportive and reassuring... except for one request.

Posted by: Ace at 12:37 PM

.....That being her request for Ace's victim hole, That was promised to Rubio. Because he brought home the bacon on his primary

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 26, 2010 12:53 PM (R2fpr)

43 OT: Ball dippingly good. Ed Schultz crazier than usual.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 12:54 PM (xxgag)

44 Anyone want to take bets on if she'll bolt the party?

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM (wuv1c)
Yes. She definitely will when the primary results are finalized and she's lost. Assuming the libertards welcome her with open arms.

Posted by: Editor at August 26, 2010 12:54 PM (pUfK9)

45 #26 Here:
at the request of Sen. Lisa Murkowski

and here:
provides assistance when
Senators ask for it.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 12:54 PM (T0NGe)

46 Also can i point something out.
When i repeat what AP wrote in the last thread
"Has half the party just collectively lost their shit? Are half of us now where the trains don't run? Jesus, give the constant conspiracy-theories and dark-plots-against-me a break... can we observe a 24 hour rule before launching into them at least? "

But when you cite AllahPundit directly, his postulation isjust plain lunchtime sillyness.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:54 PM (wuv1c)

47 sean seems to insinuate himself into everything.

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 12:55 PM (p302b)

48 jeez, i was reading it at the WAPO site and completely missed the first sentence.
oops

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:55 PM (wuv1c)

49 Get. Out.

Posted by: Amityville House at August 26, 2010 12:55 PM (w41GQ)

50 the NRSC should stay out of primaires. End of story.

Posted by: unseen at August 26, 2010 12:55 PM (aVGmX)

51 It's not like we just voted to make her persona non grata.

We could do worse...

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:55 PM (AZGON)

52 Got to treat this with some delicacy. I'm sure Murky spent tons of time stumping for the NRSC and they owe her to see it thru until the end. That doesn't mean they'll try to get her on the ballot as a libertarian, that just wouldn't make any sense. The NRSC advising a member to join another party is a deliction of duty and would cost them millions in donor dollars. NRSC lawyer is there to make sure it ends smoothly with no 3rd party candidate coming out.

Posted by: Dunkirk at August 26, 2010 12:56 PM (kbHJ6)

53 So the HotAir thread is... amusing.

I acknowledge that AllahPundit's job is to generate traffic for his site, but I have to say that his post has the readers over there so whipped up that they're now calling the NRSC, jamming up their phones and wasting everyone's time.

It seems to me that stunts like this - which are not all that uncommon over there - do at least as much damage to the GOP as a few jokes about the FLOTUS that a handful of overly sensitive idiots find questionable. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 12:56 PM (4/eCJ)

54 Isn't this a reference to Palin endorsing Miller? Am I wrong about this?

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:52 PM

Of course you're right. But Palin's endorsement hardly qualifies as "single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making."

If anything will shove the Head Mama Grizzly into the storage bin of obscurity faster than over-the-top hero-worship and gross magnification of her every move, I don't know what it would be.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 12:57 PM (Ulu3i)

55 ....That being her request for Ace's victim hole, That was promised to Rubio. Because he brought home the bacon on his primary

How many politicians can dance on the end of a victim-hole?

Posted by: The Scholastics at August 26, 2010 12:57 PM (AZGON)

56 Yes. She definitely will when the primary results are finalized and she's lost. Assuming the libertards welcome her with open arms.
I don't know. If the Dems were smart they would dump their guy and run her. They are going to lose anyway, so they might as well make it a closer loss. Besides as we have seen from recent history, Republicans turned Democrats make for some of the most loyal democrats.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:57 PM (wuv1c)

57 Yawwwwwwwn

This just means the Rethugs will lose 200 seats this November.

Posted by: dennis crane at August 26, 2010 12:57 PM (TBzGs)

58 Allahpundit is becoming the John C. Dvorak of political bloggers. Yank fanboy chain, rake in page hits.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:58 PM (AZGON)

59 The GOP isn't going to help Merkowski if she loses. They aren't THAT stupid.

Posted by: maddogg at August 26, 2010 12:58 PM (OlN4e)

60 @54
Agreed.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 12:58 PM (AZGON)

61 more importantly, where was Murkowski when WTC 7 fell.

Buy gold and non genetically modified seeds.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 12:59 PM (wuv1c)

62 I would agree to this to a point. She doesn't expect help to go Libertarian. But I do think Murky wants reassurance that the NRSC will not interfere if she goes legal on the process, challenging ballots and such, and that if she wins the NRSC will throw her extra cash to make up for what she had to spend. She also wants them to insure other incumbents don't start endorsing Miller until that process is finished no mateer what the numbers say.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 12:59 PM (Q1lie)

63 I move that the National Rino Senate Committee be defunded, shutdown and vaporized. Can I get a second?

Posted by: Less Grossman at August 26, 2010 12:59 PM (K/USr)

64 well, is the NRSC is indeed doing this...

Posted by: eddiebear at August 26, 2010 12:59 PM (MhVow)

65 Got to treat this with some delicacy. I'm sure Murky spent tons of time
stumping for the NRSC and they owe her to see it thru until the end.

What is the end though?

Remember, Murkowski hasn't conceded. This could come down to a Minnesota-style ballot count.

If this goes to court, will the NRSC support her, or will they back away?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 26, 2010 01:00 PM (FkKjr)

66 Well, I don't know. The national republican establishment hasn't shown a great deal of integrity in acceding to the wishes of the electorate this year. I just sent the good Senator Cornyn an email, assuring him that I would give my money and my vote to any primary challenger that he faces in 2014 if the NRSC interferes in the Alaska primary.

Posted by: Phil Smith at August 26, 2010 01:01 PM (n+cpx)

67 I'm driving my crack legal team up to Senator Murkowski's office too. Must help out our colleagues. Senatorial comity, and all that.

You should see the size of the trunk on my Crown Victoria.

Posted by: Al Franken at August 26, 2010 01:01 PM (AZGON)

68
the NRSC should stay out of primaires. End of story
I am just going to do the old cut and paste from the last thread on this. But, here is one reason why the NRSC or the NRCC will not stay out of primaries:
Incumbents are always going to get money from the RCCC and the RSCC. Even for primaries. And one reason they will.......is because they helped raise it.
Most Senators/Congresspersons are required to spend some time on a phone during the week calling big donors and the like soliciting campaign cash from them. Particularly big donors in their district/state.
Now, your Congressman X. For several weeks, you have given up your time to help the NRCC raise money. Then, they tell you "sorry, you have a primary challenger, can't give you any funds. Thanks for the time, though. And, oh, by the way, we really need your vote on y. Yea, I have seen the polling in your district, going with us doesn't help you...but, come one, your willing to take one for the team, right?"
We can wrap ourselves up in lofty ideas of fairness, etc. but politics is not always about lofty ideas. There is an element of reality in it. And the reality is, start cutting people off, then they are not going to help you raise money. And money is the mother milk of politics. That is just the way it is.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 26, 2010 01:01 PM (OWjjx)

69 She asked him to advise her, so he's going to advise her, as is proper
Why can't he advise her over the phone? I don't get this.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:01 PM (Qp4DT)

70 what if she requests that her campaign dept be paid in full.......the gop agrees and then she files for the general as an independent?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at August 26, 2010 01:01 PM (rr5XB)

71 If this goes to court, will the NRSC support her, or will they back away?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 26, 2010 01:00 PM (FkKjr)

That is what she has questions and wants to hear from the NRSC about I think.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (Q1lie)

72 EXCLUSIVE: AllahPundit striptease for page hits

Posted by: next week's top link at HotAir at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (9Sbz+)

73 She called in the NRSC to administer last rites.

Posted by: maddogg at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (OlN4e)

74 She asked him to advise her, so he's going to advise her, as is properWhy can't he advise her over the phone? I don't get this.
yeah doesn't he know that flying in alaskan planes can be deadly?

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (wuv1c)

75 Stock up on pudding, NOW!
New Rashitler poll has voterstrusting Republicans more on all 10 key issues... http://tinyurl.com/RR1949

Posted by: Countrysquire at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (e910j)

76 Of course you're right. But Palin's endorsement hardly qualifies as "single-handedly destroying a political dynasty in the making."
Are you forgetting that Palin knocked off Frank Murkowski in the governor's primary four years ago?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (JxMoP)

77 64 well, is the NRSC is indeed doing this...

Now now, eddiebear... we little people just don't understand the complex and distant ways of the beneficent NRSC. Just trust them. Many here say so.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 01:03 PM (AZGON)

78 This could come down to a Minnesota-style ballot count.

No, it couldn't. She's not a Democrat.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:03 PM (T0NGe)

79 Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM (wuv1c)

But, seriously, what conceivable difference is there in being physically present in Alaska to "advise" her. I cannot think of even one reason.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM (Qp4DT)

80 Allahpundit crackbar!

Posted by: Hot Air Management at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM (kxQZx)

81 LOL @ ++undead.

Posted by: next week's top link at HotAir at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM (9Sbz+)

82 This could come down to a Minnesota-style ballot count.No, it couldn't. She's not a Democrat.
In Alaska, the Republicans are the Machine Party.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM (wuv1c)

83 This all really depends on the absentees. If they come down in Murky's favor and the lead drops down to less than a few hundred I think she will go Franken on the process. If they can find votes in the Minnesota suburbs they can find them in the hinterlands of Alaska that's for sure.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 01:05 PM (Q1lie)

84 I could help my esteemed colleague by having a car with a trunk full of absentee ballots to her location by tomorrow. What does she need, about 2,000 ballots with her 70/30?

Posted by: Al Franken Not S0 Funny Guy at August 26, 2010 01:05 PM (IhHdM)

85 AP is a fool. The RNC no matter how incompetant they are is not going to trade a solid republican for a squishy libertarian when they don't have to.

Posted by: robtr at August 26, 2010 01:05 PM (fwSHf)

86 Basically, I see the NRSC guy showing up and telling her "You fucked up, you trusted us."

Posted by: Countrysquire at August 26, 2010 01:06 PM (e910j)

87 "Committee sources insisted that too much should not be read into
Cairncross’ presence in Alaska — only that the NRSC is an
incumbent-retention committee and, as such, provides assistance when
Senators ask for it."

Does anyone else see the irony of getting excited over a party with an "incumbent-retention committee?"

Posted by: Evil Red Scandi at August 26, 2010 01:06 PM (khet/)

88 But, seriously, what conceivable difference is there
in being physically present in Alaska to "advise" her. I cannot think
of even one reason.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM (Qp4DT)

It's easier to lie over the phone then to someone's face. She wnats to know they ain't lying when they reassure her they have her back until the primary is officially certified.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 01:06 PM (Q1lie)

89 Quick, someone buy the NRSC a subscription to "GoToMeeting"! Stat!

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:06 PM (Qp4DT)

90 It just occurred to me that Ace IS Allahpundit. That would explain all this cross-pollination nicely.
Somethin's going on there, that's for sure, but of course not in a gay way, more in a Ken Mehlman kind of way. Oh wait....

Posted by: Tom Servo at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM (T1boi)

91 But, seriously, what conceivable difference is there
in being physically present in Alaska to "advise" her. I cannot think
of even one reason.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:04 PM

Gee, it's pretty common in business to have delicate conversations face-to-face so you can (1) convey your meaning more clearly, (2) read the other person's reaction, and (3) avoid any chance of the meeting being taped or misreported. Also, there may be some files or documents they need to see or officials or offices in Alaska they need to visit.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM (4/eCJ)

92 Amusing question, will Murky go Franken? There's nothing like entitlement mentality, and Murky has that in spades.

I denounce myself for oblique racism.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM (AZGON)

93 Are you forgetting that Palin knocked off Frank Murkowski in the governor's primary four years ago?

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at August 26, 2010 01:02 PM

No.

Did she do that single-handedly? All by her little lonesome?

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 01:08 PM (Ulu3i)

94
Great site. I agree with everything you say. We buy souls. We pay top dollar for souls. Broken souls? No problem. We buy all souls.

Posted by: Satan at August 26, 2010 01:08 PM (UQjUb)

95

There are many considerations here, including a chance at the first
elected Libertarian U.S. Senator in our party's history.
A LINO.
Ironically, just yesterday I did agree to "Caucus" with the Republicans
if I am elected.

Ironic, eh? I guess those firm Libertarian Party principles go out the window when some piece of hot political ass comes sashaying down the runway, huh?

Frankly, if pressed on the matter, my inclination at this moment is to vote yes.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Highly Principled Libertarian Party.

Save this post and pull it out everytime some Libertarian or libertarian talks about principle. I'd rather have RINOs than this trash.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:08 PM (T0NGe)

96 Basically, I see the NRSC guy showing up and telling her "You fucked up, you trusted us."

Okay, if the NRSC literally does that, I would pay real money to see it.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 01:09 PM (AZGON)

97 Hey, I was under the impression that only dems are allowed to break all the rules and have no one, nada, no body say a word....I didn't realize the rules extended to sitting people in power. wow, learn something new everyday. Wonder if the current governor of the state and all those people whose votes she is trying to make not count will be the least bit upset.

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 01:09 PM (p302b)

98 Dear RNSC-gobbling nitwits,

The Chamberlein-esque candy-ass RINO at HotAir has it exactly right. The RNSC has sent a lawyer to Alaska at the request of one Republican (the incumbent) in her electoral efforts against another Republican, the apparent primary winner.

The scum at RNSC claim they are "helping to count votes" as if the Alaska GOP cannot reliably count votes in their own effing primary. This is power-elite incumbent bullshit -- the very thing that seems to piss of Tea Partiers the most.

And I can easily understand why. The RNSC may be in the process of completely f*cking up November.

Posted by: Jaibones at August 26, 2010 01:09 PM (YygEy)

99 Great site. I agree with everything you say. We buy souls. We pay top dollar for souls. Broken souls? No problem. We buy all souls.

Do you have any royal me lace souls? How about a spare Senate seat? One with a cat filter?

Posted by: George Orwell at August 26, 2010 01:10 PM (AZGON)

100 GET. OUT.

Posted by: Amityville House at August 26, 2010 01:10 PM (w41GQ)

101 It just occurred to me that Ace IS Allahpundit. ....
Posted by: Tom Servo at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM

What a horrible friggin' thought!

Would explain a lot. You're right about that.

But still... *shakes head*

At least you didn't say ace is really "Poppin' Fresh...."

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 01:10 PM (Ulu3i)

102 The RNSC has sent a lawyer to Alaska at the request of one Republican
(the incumbent) in her electoral efforts against another Republican, the
apparent primary winner.

How can you say this? The absentee ballots haven't been counted yet.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:10 PM (4/eCJ)

103 AP:"To be clear, though, I’m not suggesting that they’re trying to get her
to run as a libertarian; I’m suggesting that they may be advising her on
how to challenge the results via a recount, court battle, etc."

Me as AP: "Which is why I've quietly changed my headline which suggested the NRSC is sending a lawyer to advise her on how to run as a Libertarian."

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (i3PJU)

104 So the Libertarian Party would be simply a fall-back vehicle for Big Government Conservative incumbents? Hey, now that's a way to stick it to the Federal Reserve and Military-Industrial Complex!

Posted by: John S at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (VVV5c)

105 In Alaska, the Republicans are the Machine Party.

Doesn't matter. Republicans just don't do machine the way Democrats do. Not enough lubricant.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (T0NGe)

106 The BEST thing she could do for all involved when the final votes are tallied ( and she loses) is to say that she respects the will of the Alaskan voter, thanks them for the opportunity to serve, and quietly fade away to a life of the well paid lobbyist.

Posted by: Bosk at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (pUO5u)

107 What's up with Charlie Crist's doped-up face on the ad? The guy looks like he's on Day Three of an epic ecstasy-and-sex binge.

Posted by: next week's top link at HotAir at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (9Sbz+)

108 followed up to ask if he knew of any discussions between the Libertarian Party and either Sen. Murkowski or her people. I haven't heard back yet.
Yeah, they called Murkowski to ask her if she was holding. If yes, then maybe they can cut a deal.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 01:11 PM (wuv1c)

109 Frankly, if pressed on the matter, my inclination at this moment is to vote yes.

And don't fool yourselves. The Libertarians would do this in anywhere if it meant a real shot at an honest to god Senator with a big L after their name. They'd do it for Snowe never mind Murky.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 01:12 PM (Q1lie)

110 Doesn't matter. Republicans just don't do machine the way Democrats do.

Google "Matt Amorello" or "Jane Swift".

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 26, 2010 01:12 PM (FkKjr)

111 Okay, time to lose that sock. (Although that's the headline we wish HotAir would run, instead of the crap it's running now.)

Posted by: Zimriel at August 26, 2010 01:12 PM (9Sbz+)

112 Why is AllahPundit important? (Will men in suits and dark glasses show up on my doorstep for asking this?)

Posted by: EZB at August 26, 2010 01:13 PM (Ty06w)

113 Gee, it's pretty common in business to have delicate
conversations face-to-face so you can (1) convey your meaning more
clearly, (2) read the other person's reaction, and (3) avoid any chance
of the meeting being taped or misreported. Also, there may be some
files or documents they need to see or officials or offices in Alaska
they need to visit.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM (4/eCJ)
I understand that people make those claims, but:1) is a joke. Anyone can convey EXACTLY what they want to on the phone. For many, it's even easier to say what they want over a phone line than in person.
2) The attendant gestures of face-to-face meetings tend to confuse issues more often than clarify them.3) You have as much of a chance of someone taping you with a little cell phone or other recorder, physically, as you do over some internet meeting or phone call. You can scramble the internet communications and restrict that worry to the principals.Any files or documents can be easily sent or viewed, securely. When people physically handle files, they tend to be left in cabs and bars and get thrown out in the normal trash.There is nothing so special and "physical" to deal with Murkowski that would warrant physically traveling to see her.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:13 PM (Qp4DT)

114 Google "Matt Amorello" or "Jane Swift".

Google "Boss Tweed". Well, you really shouldn't have to.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:14 PM (T0NGe)

115 They'd do it for Snowe never mind Murky.

The Libertarian party would roll over for Bernie Sanders if he agreed to take on the L label.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:15 PM (T0NGe)

116 101 It just occurred to me that Ace IS Allahpundit. ....Posted by: Tom Servo at August 26, 2010 01:07 PMWhat a horrible friggin' thought!Would explain a lot. You're right about that.But still... *shakes head*At least you didn't say ace is really "Poppin' Fresh...."
Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 01:10 PM (Ulu3i)
Nah. I like Ace. I hate Allahpundit with a livid passion.

Posted by: dagny at August 26, 2010 01:17 PM (75Bwe)

117 Nah. I like Ace. I hate Allahpundit with a livid passion.

I believe it's a split personality.

And so do I.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:17 PM (T0NGe)

118 I have to admit that those Alaska Libertarians sound like what we've long regarded as the caricature of Alaska Libertarians, but even dumber.

Russian fishing boat somewhere in the Bering Strait:

"Hmmm..."
"Alaska Libertarians. They save the good shit for the convention."

Posted by: JEM at August 26, 2010 01:18 PM (o+SC1)

119 Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:13 PM (Qp4DT)
Sorry, another copy and paste from the past thread. Hey, if Ace can double post, why can't the commentators do the same --- and is this counting toward my weeks total. Cause, if so, I may just put up one comment and paste it onto every thread 30 times to get the top spot each week. But, now, the answer to your questions:

A gentleman does not dump his girlfriend over the phone. The NRSC is the National Republican Seante Campaign.......of which Murkowski is still a member of. As a member of the Senate, the NRSC owes her a little respect and dignity than to dump her by a phone call. You send someone up, hopefully someone she knows and trusts, who tells her, look, I don't think you can win here, I don't think it helps your career if you go third party, we aren't giving you any money if you do, we have a chance to regain the Senate and if you run we have to drain funds away to hold an otherwise safe seat.
Lets just wait and see what happens.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (OWjjx)

120 I understand that people make those claims, but:1)
is a joke. Anyone can convey EXACTLY what they want to on the phone.
For many, it's even easier to say what they want over a phone line than
in person.
2) The attendant gestures of face-to-face meetings tend to confuse issues more often than clarify them.--What do you do for a living?

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (4/eCJ)

121 Why is AllahPundit important? (Will men in suits and dark glasses show up on my doorstep for asking this?)

Posted by: EZB at August 26, 2010 01:13 PM

If it wasn't for him and "Poppin' Fresh," we'd be short one squishy, often cheesy (not in a good way) website, that's why!

There seems to be some weird bond between bloggers which I don't really understand.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (Ulu3i)

122 so libertarians are so dumb as to think Murkowski is a libertarian?

Posted by: joeindc44 at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (QxSug)

123 Even more insanely funny silly shit:

Lefties equate treatment of peace loving muzzies who only want a little place – insignificant really – where they can store their shoes, rugs, fertilizer, detcord, blasting caps and other peaceful odds and ends, with 9/11 itself.

From Legal Insurrection via Instapundit.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at August 26, 2010 01:20 PM (RkRxq)

124 Google squish

Posted by: RINO at August 26, 2010 01:21 PM (+sBB4)

125 Meh...Carryincross is headed up there for the last of the Silver runs and to see the termination dust (not in the druggie sense). There's nothing more he can offer her.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 26, 2010 01:21 PM (8lCJT)

126 The Libertarians would do this in anywhere if it meant a real shot at an honest to god Senator with a big L after their name. They'd do it for Snowe never mind Murky.
so libertarians are so dumb as to think Murkowski is a libertarian?
If Murky gets the Libertarian nomination, I'm changing my affiliation.

Posted by: LibertarianJim at August 26, 2010 01:21 PM (PReJ3)

127 A gentleman does not dump his girlfriend over the phone.

Damn straight. That's why we have fax machines.

Posted by: Phil Collins at August 26, 2010 01:21 PM (T0NGe)

128 So Allahpundit, who I consider to be at the same level as Kos, is supposed to be some sort of icon?

Posted by: dagny at August 26, 2010 01:22 PM (75Bwe)

129 122
so libertarians are so dumb as to think Murkowski is a libertarian?

They believed Howard Stern when he ran as one for NY Governor.

Posted by: Gran at August 26, 2010 01:22 PM (xmjMj)

130 so libertarians are so dumb as to think Murkowski is a libertarian?

Posted by: joeindc44 at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (QxSug)

It doesn't matter. it's not like she will be able to pass what they want single handed anyway. But from a pr and access standpoint it's the ultimate prize. Hell the Dems took Specter for a few votes on bills.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 01:23 PM (Q1lie)

131 Google "Boss Tweed". Well, you really shouldn't have to.

The Democrats are worse, don't get me wrong. But Republicans can be pretty damn bad.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 26, 2010 01:23 PM (FkKjr)

132 In person you can do the wink, the nod, the knowing smile. All perfectly harmless but certain to convey whatever unspoken message one wants them to.
Everything else leaves a trail.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 26, 2010 01:24 PM (h6kb0)

133 Hoffman vs Scuzzyfuffa

Crist blah blah...

the bullshit that comes from Leslie Grahams hole....

Cmdr of the Intergalactic Space Warriors John Wayne McCain

M Steelehead

the list is endless

I cast my Vote of No Confidence in the gop. They will do nothing truly for this Republic ... it's all for their country club requirements.....

they are begging us to make them a footnote in history.

Posted by: J2 at August 26, 2010 01:24 PM (DCdSz)

134 Question: While Iran is arming itself with Nukes, Hamas is attacking Israeli blockade ships, a shariah lovin' muzzie is attempted to build a victory mosk at ground 0, Obama is placating them while eating his 20th plate of shrimp, we've had small but deadly attacks here, et al....the media is surprised that americans are not lovin' the islamist crew?

Posted by: dagny at August 26, 2010 01:24 PM (75Bwe)

135 That's substantially the same text I got from him.
Per RSMcCain, NRSC gave her quite a pot of money, so they have to protect their investment.

Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at August 26, 2010 01:25 PM (g9neE)

136 A gentleman does not dump his girlfriend over the phone.Damn straight. That's why we have fax machines.
Posted by: Phil Collins at August 26, 2010 01:21 PM (T0NGe)
Thank you - I also threw that hanging change up in the last thread and no one jumped on it. You have restored my faith in moron nation.

Posted by: Mallamutt, AOSHQ batting practice pitcher at August 26, 2010 01:25 PM (OWjjx)

137 Teh Alaskan Republican machine seized up pretty badly in 1998 and neverfully recovered.
I'm actually kind of surprised nobody launched an insurgent primary campaign against Don Young, but apparently even Sarah of Aquitaine has her limitations.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 26, 2010 01:26 PM (8lCJT)

138 If Murky gets the Libertarian nomination, I'm changing my affiliation.

I kinda hope she does, LibertarianJim. I don't think that she can win that way, not with a genuine Democrat on the ticket. And, frankly, it would put the final nail in the coffin of the Libertarian Party. It exists on this notion that it is pure and principled.

But it isn't. One of the things Medved has right is that it is the losertarian party. People in it either want to lose and snipe from the sidelines or they want to get money and adulation and it's easy to do that from a principled third party perch.

It would also wake small-l libertarians up to what their (your?) movement has descended into.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:26 PM (T0NGe)

139 A gentleman does not dump his girlfriend over the phone. Damn straight. That's why we have fax machines.
You're both Neanderthals. You simply change your Facebook status.

Posted by: Typical Lefty at August 26, 2010 01:27 PM (IhHdM)

140 I'm starting to smell.

Posted by: VictimHole at August 26, 2010 01:27 PM (+sBB4)

141 What do you do for a living?

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:19 PM (4/eCJ)
Programming. What does it matter? I know what can be done over the phone and I know the bullshit in these campaigns.
Tell me what Cairncross is going to do, physically, that needs to be done. I don't buy Mallamutt's idea that this needs to be an amiable breakup. Candidates/Senators are not tennagers. They are adults. This isn't a breakup. Murkowski lost (it seems) the primary. End of story. The NRSC should be concerned with having Republicans in Senate seats, not with incumbency. That's ridiculous. In the primary, they have no business, at all.But, tell me what Cairncross has to be present to say to Murkowski, or to do, and then explain how that is the legitimate job of the NRSC, which should be saving its money for better expenditures.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:28 PM (Qp4DT)

142 the NRSC is an incumbent-retention committee

ditto #40, EPIC FAIL. Remembering that I quit giving money to that organization 15 years ago gives me a very warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Posted by: John Galt at August 26, 2010 01:29 PM (NLWij)

143 Candidates/Senators are not tennagers.

Dude, there's a reason you haven't moved into management.

Churchill said it about diplomacy: It's the art of saying "nice doggie" while you reach for a stick.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:29 PM (T0NGe)

144 NRSC is NOT the RNC. As a matter of fact they've had some internecine conflict. NRSC keeps funding the RINO's that the rank and file don't want, especially in the primaries.
@63 Les Grossman, ya got my vote.

Posted by: chuck in st paul at August 26, 2010 01:30 PM (adr25)

145 Without incumbents there is no seniority. With no seniority, there's no institutional power. Democrats have understood this for generations.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 26, 2010 01:30 PM (h6kb0)

146 Eric? As in Eric Dondero of LibertarianRepublican? Good people.

Murkowski has never actually struck me as having a libertarian bone in her body though.

Posted by: Tom In Korea at August 26, 2010 01:31 PM (+gX1+)

147 IIRC, Ross Perot had a lot of support in Alaska. Maybe she'll announce her independent candidacy on Larry King Alive...because multigenerationalestablishmentmiddle-road Republicanisminspires flocks of volunteers to your campaign.
And fuck me for not sending in my absentee ballot.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 26, 2010 01:31 PM (8lCJT)

148 Rob Jesmer is the ad wizard who was gave us Charlie Crist among other failed candidates.
(Redstate)

The man is a walking disaster. Miller should be hang up on his ass and call Steele directly to demand cash and competent lawyers.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at August 26, 2010 01:31 PM (oL8lS)

149
Gee, it's pretty common in business to have delicate
conversations face-to-face so you can (1) convey your meaning more
clearly, (2) read the other person's reaction, and (3) avoid any chance
of the meeting being taped or misreported. Also, there may be some
files or documents they need to see or officials or offices in Alaska
they need to visit.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:07 PM (4/eCJ)

You can "accidentally" leave a brief case with $100,000 in unmarked, non sequential bills in her office in exchange for a certain outcome.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 01:32 PM (xxgag)

150 I am beginning the rethink my opinion on the 17th Amendment. A lot of people say that it hurts because it overly politicized the election of Senators and put money and campaigning into the matter. My original opinion was that I didn't think that really matters that much as appointment by the State Legislature would still do the same thing.

But this illustrates one other drawback to the 17th amendment. Senators owe their fealty to the national Party and DC now, and not the State or the people of the State.

Posted by: Vic at August 26, 2010 01:32 PM (/jbAw)

151 Without incumbents there is no seniority. With no
seniority, there's no institutional power. Democrats have understood
this for generations.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 26, 2010 01:30 PM (h6kb0)
That's not true. The caucus can decide how they want ot fill the committee assignments. Seniority is a CAUCUS issue, not a Congressional (House or Senate) one.Democrats controlled the House for decades. They had a certian amount of total power over the committees, without anything to do with seniority. Seniority was an internal issue as to how that power is split among the caucus.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:33 PM (Qp4DT)

152 I hope he stays at a Holiday Inn

Posted by: nine coconuts at August 26, 2010 01:35 PM (DHNp4)

153 I posted this in the thread below, but here it is, again, because I can't say it enough. Besides, the Republican establishment just pisses me the hell off, so there...
At this point, the NRSC has done more than enoughin this election cycleto make me distrust them. I expect, and it better happen, that within the next day or two, Little Miss Murky better concede and throw her support behind Miller. Nothing else will suffice. The people of AK voted, and chose their candidate. I seem to remember a statement from the NRSC not too long ago that they were going to let the people decide in the primaries. They damn well better stick to that promise.

Posted by: Steph at August 26, 2010 01:35 PM (580hG)

154 But this illustrates one other drawback to the 17th amendment. Senators
owe their fealty to the national Party and DC now, and not the State or
the people of the State.

If you repeal the 17th amendment, then Republican state legislatures are very likely to nominate the kind of milquetoast, RINO squishes that we have such a problem with now.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:35 PM (T0NGe)

155 A gentleman does not dump his girlfriend over the phone. Damn straight. That's why we have fax machines.

Wait for the next disaster like a plane crash then move, change your phone number, and have friend tell her that he thinks you were on that plane.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 01:35 PM (xxgag)

156 The caucus can decide how they want ot fill the committee assignments.

Seniority is more than committee chairmanship assignments, etc. It's institutional memory. There's a reason Bobby Byrd was effective even when he was in a coma.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:36 PM (T0NGe)

157 To DrewM's update for Ace.
I don't think anyone here argued that the lawyer was sent to help her swtich parties, i don't know of anyone who claimed allah said that.
The only claim was that allah, said, as can be read in his post, that it looked bad and appeared as thought they were interfering. he didn't say they were, but it appears bad.
Your poo pooing an argument no one is really making.

Posted by: Ben at August 26, 2010 01:37 PM (wuv1c)

158 Here are some reasons so many people are wary of the NRSC, and many "Republican" franchises:

Arlen Specter
Dede Scozzofava
Newt Gingrich
Charlie Crist
Arnold Schwarzenneger
John McCain
Lindsey Graham
Susan Collins
Olympia Snowe

Should I go on?

Posted by: ghost707 at August 26, 2010 01:38 PM (BNk7G)

159 155 Wait for the next disaster like a plane crash then move, change your phone number, and have friend tell her that he thinks you were on that plane.

Then edit the Wikipedia article about the crash and add yourself to the list of victims.

Posted by: Gran at August 26, 2010 01:38 PM (xmjMj)

160 It would also wake small-l libertarians up to what their (your?) movement has descended into.
I don't consider myself a "movement" libertarian. I've said on this blog before (a while ago) that I vote GOP in presidential elections because the LP are a bunch of adolescents when it comes to national security and foriegn policy. I went to their 2002 convention and they -- less than a year after 9/11 -- thought it would be a good idea to include a platform plank forcing the CIA to document its every budgetary expense.
I identify with the LP because I do believe in a lot of their limited government domestic policies. And, candidly, when I switched to the LP (and ran for state house for them) I was young, at a difficult point in my life, and it gave me a sense of belonging.
I've stuck with them since. But Murky is as big a "big government conservative" as they get. They take her, and the cake will indeed be a lie.

Posted by: LibertarianJim at August 26, 2010 01:40 PM (PReJ3)

161 Seniority is more than committee chairmanship
assignments, etc. It's institutional memory. There's a reason Bobby
Byrd was effective even when he was in a coma.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 26, 2010 01:36 PM (T0NGe)
That's true. But I was just saying that the total power wielded by a caucus has nothing to do with the seniority of its members, directly, but with the majority they hold in seats. It is true that seniority, within the caucus, leads to extra power for those holding it, as they become part of the furniture of a committee over decades, but that is a separate issue that could also happen without seniority being used in the caucuses.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:40 PM (Qp4DT)

162 "That's not true. "

Really? Ever? Well thanks for clearing that up. But I'm not talking about committees (the clue is that I didn't mention them).
In fact, seniority is a hugely important factor in, as I emphasized earlier, institutional power. When a Party has a nice 50 or so "untouchable icons", from random Kennedys to countless "Civil Rights heroes", they have 50 free seats. The only way to get there is seniority.
Should we mimic them? Probably not, but we should certainly be aware of the effectiveness of their methods.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 26, 2010 01:40 PM (h6kb0)

163 This is PROOF!! that the GOP is in such disarray and in denial about how bad they will get their asses handed to them in November.

Democrats will win all 531 house seats and all 100 senate seats.

Posted by: Moonbat at August 26, 2010 01:42 PM (DYJjQ)

164 In fact, seniority is a hugely important factor in, as I emphasized earlier, institutional power.
When a Party has a nice 50 or so "untouchable icons", from random
Kennedys to countless "Civil Rights heroes", they have 50 free seats.
The only way to get there is seniority. Posted by: Lincolntf at August 26, 2010 01:40 PM (h6kb0)

That's not "seniority". That's entrenchment, which is different.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:42 PM (Qp4DT)

165 Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:28 PM (Qp4DT)
And of course, if the RNSC just dumped her ass, and then tomorrow Murkoswki starts making noise about supporting card check or tax increases, the whine would be "Oh, God, the RNSC didn't handle it right...now she is gonna join with the Democrats and pass Cap and Trade, Card Check, Single Payer, the Universal Death to Kittehs law, the outlawing of Bacon act....Micheal Steele must go for allowing this! Coryn is an idiot! John Boehner is underminning us! Agh. The sky is falling, the sky if falling".
You treat her with some respect because 1) she still has a vote in the US Senate where ther are only 41 Republican Senators 2) as I noted earlier, she raised money for the RNSC 3) in political circles, it is what is expected. I know, a quant idea, but I am old fashion that way.

Posted by: Mallamutt, AOSHQ batting practice pitcher at August 26, 2010 01:43 PM (OWjjx)

166 I mean why can't she understand that maybe the alaska republicans were just slightly peeved that daddy appointed her and want to have their say and she isn't all that to them?

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 01:43 PM (p302b)

167 Wait for the next
disaster like a plane crash then move, change your phone number, and
have friend tell her that he thinks you were on that plane.

Then edit the Wikipedia article about the crash and add yourself to the list of victims.

Posted by: Gran at August 26, 2010 01:38 PM (xmjMj)
The beauty is that even if she finds out about your little counterfactual, the relationship is still over.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 01:43 PM (xxgag)

168 Programming. What does it matter? I know what can be done over the phone and I know the bullshit in these campaigns.

heh.

In people-centered enterprises, important or sensitive negotiations are handled face-to-face.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:44 PM (4/eCJ)

169 GET. OUT.
Posted by: Amityville House

And take this friggin' leaking lawnmower with you!

Posted by: Amityville house's shed at August 26, 2010 01:45 PM (R2fpr)

170 Millers lead with 100% of precincts in is 1668, That is a pretty good lead. It is my assumption that there are about 8000 ballots out. All of the ballots are not Republican, at least that's what I heard. Murk. would have to get most of the votes to make up 1668, She lost.That is of course unless some funny business happens.

Posted by: Donna at August 26, 2010 01:46 PM (A77nn)

171 In Alaska, the Republicans are the Machine Party.Doesn't matter. Republicans just don't do machine the way Democrats do. Not enough lubricant.
Posted by: AmishDude

And that's why Ace calls it the victim hole.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 26, 2010 01:46 PM (R2fpr)

172 @157I don't think anyone here argued that the lawyer was sent to help her
swtich parties, i don't know of anyone who claimed allah said that.

Yeah. It's really disingenuous of AP to add that comment on his post acting as if there was some confusion about that.

I still think ace's interpretation is right, but I understand how people might worry that the NRSC was going to help Murkowski fight off the challenger. That does seem to sort of fall within their charge, so it's possible.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:46 PM (4/eCJ)

173 That should read 1668 vote lead

Posted by: Donna at August 26, 2010 01:48 PM (A77nn)

174
-->And of course, if the RNSC just dumped her ass,
and then tomorrow Murkoswki starts making noise about supporting card
check or tax increases, the whine would be "Oh, God, the RNSC didn't
handle it right...now she is gonna join with the Democrats and pass Cap
and Trade, Card Check, Single Payer, the Universal Death to Kittehs law,
the outlawing of Bacon act....Micheal Steele must go for allowing this!
Coryn is an idiot! John Boehner is underminning us! Agh. The sky is
falling, the sky if falling".

Thanks for telling me how I would react. That's a neat trick. You're only off by a few million miles.

-->You treat her with some respect because 1) she still has a vote in
the US Senate where ther are only 41 Republican Senators 2) as I noted
earlier, she raised money for the RNSC 3) in political circles, it is
what is expected. I know, a quant idea, but I am old fashion that way.

Posted by: Mallamutt, AOSHQ batting practice pitcher at August 26, 2010 01:43 PM (OWjjx)
Flying to Alaska just to hold her hand for something that the NRSC has no business mucking around in is NOT "treat[ing] her with some respect". Quite the opposite. I'm old-fashioned that way.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:48 PM (Qp4DT)

175 The only reason you request a "face to face" meeting is to say something you cannot put in an email or a twit or a letter or a fax cause you don't want said thought on paper where it can be somehow found and pinned on you.

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 01:51 PM (p302b)

176 In people-centered enterprises, important or sensitive negotiations are handled face-to-face.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 01:44 PM (4/eCJ)
Master of the obvious. Thank you. But we are talking about politics, and not retail politics, but within a party.
The people-centered part of politics is not involved in recounts and such. The NRSC is not in a "people-centered enterprise" with respect to individual Senators, but in a relationship with the Senate seats, themselves.
And, once again, what "important of sensitive negotiations" does the NRSC need to have with Murkowski? Please be specific. They're just counting votes. Period.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:52 PM (Qp4DT)

177 At least the Alaska libertarian isn't pushing the liberaltarian bilge that you get from volokh.com and other places. Some of the "libertarians" even crow about how their economic ideas are shaping the Democratic Party. Let's see-I'm for little to no government and maximum freedom. Let me align myself with a party of unlimited government and controls on salt on restaurant menus.

Posted by: ed at August 26, 2010 01:52 PM (Urhve)

178 Didn't they promise to stay out of contested primaries less than 6 months ago?

I guess their promises have the same expiration date as Obama's.
i.e. right after being said.

Posted by: Veeshir at August 26, 2010 01:53 PM (aaL51)

179 The only question is who is more likely to beat the democrat nominee? Murkowski or Miller?
Yeah, I know, rinos blah blah might as well be a dem, blah blah but I still want to beat the dems. I'm watching to see if McCain got a ce's lue about rinoism or if he's a complete fool.

Posted by: dagny at August 26, 2010 01:54 PM (75Bwe)

180 But, tell me what Cairncross has to be present to say to Murkowski, or to do, and then explain how that is the legitimate job of the NRSC, which should be saving its money for better expenditures.

Two parts of his job become easier if he's on the ground in AK: examining documents (like ballots) and being more instantly "on call" for questions and advice.

Is it worth the NRSC's money? If it makes the difference between a disgruntled-but-accepting ex-senator and an angry third-party bid, sure. Tough to say what will happen before it happens.

Posted by: Starshatterer at August 26, 2010 01:55 PM (kcgje)

181
The only reason you request a "face to face" meeting is to say something
you cannot put in an email or a twit or a letter or a fax cause you
don't want said thought on paper where it can be somehow found and
pinned on you.

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 01:51 PM (p302b)
Most people just want to be taken seriously. I have found that when someone is upset with some decision I have made (which is quite frequent), if I take the time to talk to them personally, even if it involves me driving hours out of my way, I can usually get my way. If you just show them that their feelings and opinions have been considered and that you are sincere, you can avoid a lot of bitter recriminations later.

Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 01:57 PM (xxgag)

182
I'm just glad RINO season has begun. This scrunt is on the senate energy committee. HELLOOOO, cap 'n tax.

Posted by: Dang Straights at August 26, 2010 02:00 PM (fx8sm)

183 Don't forget that this process with the absentee ballots is going to take weeks. Murky would want the NRSC to work on other R nominees to keep them neutral. Miller is Tea Party/Palin gold at this point and a virtual lock to win. I wouldn't bet my life on that but I would put some serious money down.I am sure there are plenty of people running who need to shore up that support, like Mccain, that would love to come out and say "Miller is one great guy and I have great respect for Lisa both as Senator and friend but she should respect the people's wishes..." to gain some points. They may hold off out of loyalty to her for a few days but weeks? They are running out of time here and some still haven't had their primary yet.

Posted by: Rocks at August 26, 2010 02:01 PM (Q1lie)

184 The only question is who is more likely to beat the democrat nominee? Murkowski or Miller?
Posted by: dagny at August 26, 2010 01:54 PM (75Bwe)
No, that is not the question. That was answered by the voters in AK. As it stands, Murky can't win, because the #s don't add up, unless the #s are screwed with.
Period. End of story.

Posted by: Steph at August 26, 2010 02:02 PM (580hG)

185 If there's a recount, Miller's toast. It wasn't the suburbs of the Twin Cities that discovered the majority of "lost" votes, it was far up north on the Iron Range. I spent ten years up there andsuch dishonor doesn't surprise me in the least. Damn, but I hate this sh*t.
mac :]

Posted by: macbrooks at August 26, 2010 02:02 PM (J+MD4)

186 The only reason you request a "face to face" meeting is to say something you cannot put in an email or a twit or a letter or a fax cause you don't want said thought on paper where it can be somehow found and pinned on you.
Posted by: curious

I'd also note that the NRSC may be trying to get her to promise not to do a Crist like bit of stupidity. I've heard that thus far she hasn't ruled it out.If they fulfill their duty to her, and try to get her to accept the result, then they are better placed to isolate her if she decides to go to the bong side of the Force.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 26, 2010 02:02 PM (R2fpr)

187 182
I'm just glad RINO season has begun.

Dem Season!

RINO Season!

Dem Season!

RINO Season!

Posted by: Bugs & Daffy at August 26, 2010 02:02 PM (xmjMj)

188 She can get a job in the House as head of the pages or something. We'll be running the place. Bottom line, she doesn't want to go back to AK.

Where is Concophillips to buy her off when we need them?

Posted by: Richard Blaine at August 26, 2010 02:04 PM (BiwiI)

189 Posted by: WalrusRex at August 26, 2010 01:57 PM (xxgag)

not for anything but people voted, voted. Why is it that all of a sudden in this country it's ok to question the voters?

What do we really have as our say but our vote. They voted, they didn't want her, despite her millions spent. Look it goes back to 7th grade girls....when her daddy had enough power to take her friends to the paint ball place she was the girl to be friends with, but now, now that daddy's out of a job, she's just not that important anymore to the pack, she can't take them to paint ball anymore, and they really never liked her to begin with, so she's easy to let go from the group. She's a very poor loser and people will not forget. Unless of course this guy is going there to beg her not to vote with the dems in the lame duck session, out of pure spite.

Posted by: curious at August 26, 2010 02:04 PM (p302b)

190 From Fox News: Shades of Florida 2000 -- Hand Recount in Alaska

Posted by: NM Hick at August 26, 2010 02:09 PM (IzuWw)

191 One problem is the NRSC hasn't done much for which one would place a great deal of trust or faith in it. If you mention the name "Crist", just remember he was the same low life before losing that he showed himself to be after losing.

Posted by: ed at August 26, 2010 02:13 PM (Urhve)

192 Please, just don't tell the chicken.

Posted by: the pooch at August 26, 2010 02:14 PM (9Sbz+)

193 From Fox News: Shades of Florida 2000 -- Hand Recount in Alaska
Posted by: NM Hick

I'm on it

Posted by: Chad at August 26, 2010 02:15 PM (R2fpr)

194 @146. Dondero maight be "good people", but if Hitler ran against Stalin, Eric would be arguing that "Hitler is really a libertarian."
@177: Time was when the Democrats WERE the limited government party. Given the population that is now on the teat, we're going to get Democrats sometimes. If they come in with at least a few limited-government ideas, it will be better.

Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at August 26, 2010 02:15 PM (g9neE)

195 Rush talking about it now.

Posted by: jewells at August 26, 2010 02:17 PM (l/N7H)

196 Anyway, ace, since I'm one of the guys who was freaking out over the NRSC showing up, I apologise for the freak-out.

Posted by: Zimriel at August 26, 2010 02:19 PM (9Sbz+)

197 Eric? As in Eric Dondero of LibertarianRepublican? Good people.Murkowski has never actually struck me as having a libertarian bone in her body though.

Posted by: Tom In Korea at August 26, 2010 01:31 PM (+gX1+)
Dondero is also a major Palin ally. He blogs at Texas4Palin occasionally. He'll do whatever he can to help Miller if Palin asks him.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at August 26, 2010 02:22 PM (IoUF1)

198

What is the percentage here? What do they gain by screwing you over? Absolutely nothing and a whole lot of bad.
Who the fuck knows what their reasoning is? Why did they back Charlie Milkyloads in FL? Why did their sister organization the NRCC back DoDo Scuzzyfava in NY-23? They're completely out-of-touch with the Republican electorate and they could fuck up a wet dream. I have zero faith in their intelligence or their ability to ever do what's right.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at August 26, 2010 02:28 PM (IoUF1)

199 Dude. Don't apologize. Allah did suggest that. He changed his headline shortly after. He created the confusion, not you. I mean, I don't care. But that's what happened.

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 02:29 PM (i3PJU)

200 -->I would note that Lisa Murkowski is still a serving Republican, duly
elected in 2004, and as such has the right to advice on election issues
from the GOP's lawyer.-->This does not indicate endorsement of her. It indicates she has the right to advice and that right is being honored.
She doesn't have the right to just any sort of advice from GOP lawyers, only to certain types of advice. I would not include primary vote counting as one of those sorts of GOP advice, since that is really individual in nature, not really related to the seat, itself.
I'm not making a big stink about the NRSC sending someone up to her. They always do stupid things. I expect it of them. I just get a kick out of how worthless a gesture it is, and inappropriate, though nothing that will tear the fabric of space-time.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 02:33 PM (Qp4DT)

201 progress over peace, I notice a lot of your solutions call for "just making" people do what you want, even though you have no power to do so, and when someone offers carrots and sticks and persuasion, you seem to call it 'stupid."

Tell me how you go about "just making" Murkowski give up. What leverage exactly do you hold over her? What leverage does anyone have?

I am tired of this numbskull attitude that the way we get what we want is "just making" people do what we wish.

If you have some secret power to compel behavior, please, share it with me. Because what I hear is a guy who has no power to inflict his will on anyone, and no plan for doing so, who keeps insisting we "just make" these people do our bidding.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:37 PM (KUUXH)

202 peevishness is not a plan.

Lisa Murkowski is a *problem.* This problem needs to be resolved. The problem cannot just be wished away.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:43 PM (KUUXH)

203 -->Tell me how you go about "just making" Murkowski give up. What leverage
exactly do you hold over her? What leverage does anyone have?

Find anywhere I have said anything of the sort. I have not said one word about forcing her to do anything. I think you're confusing me with some other commenter.

I just think the NRSC has no business in this, and what little they might think they have, should be easily doable over the phone and video meetings. I can't imagine what they are going to be doing in Alaska, other than sitting in on a bunch of meetings that will be fairly silly. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough?

-->I am tired of this numbskull attitude that the way we get what we want is "just making" people do what we wish.
If you have some secret power to compel behavior, please, share it with
me. Because what I hear is a guy who has no power to inflict his will
on anyone, and no plan for doing so, who keeps insisting we "just make"
these people do our bidding.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:37 PM (KUUXH)
I don't ever really talk about making anyone do anything. That's not my schtick. I am very direct and sure about what I think is correct, but I answer all questions that are posed to me - at least I give an honest attempt, if one isn't convinced by them. I think I've done that in this little example of the NRSC and flying to Alaska. I don't think it's a huge deal, but I still think it's wrong and worthless.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 02:44 PM (Qp4DT)

204 sometimes I feel like I'm saying 'This is not the time for panic and chaos" and people keep saying "YES! YES IT IS! IT'S *EXACTLY* THAT TIME!!!"

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:45 PM (KUUXH)

205 Lisa "Crist" Murkowski is pissing me off. Republican candidates love to embrace the people and the power of the vote until it goes against them. You lost. Do your recount or whatever, then support the winner.

Posted by: jaihawkk at August 26, 2010 02:45 PM (A9nQ1)

206 It makes no sense that the GOP would throw over Miller. What does it get them? It gets them: 1) A base angry at them 2) The tea party convinced 3rd party is the only way 3) A weaker candidate than Miller
Judging by their behavior in all recent "insurgent candidate" type situations, that's a list of things they want—or at least want more.
Every organization's motives are internal. A Miller win is an external threat. Q.E.D.? Probably.

Posted by: oblig. at August 26, 2010 02:46 PM (x7Ao8)

207 >>>Find anywhere I have said anything of the sort.

When I suggested Park51 be offered an alternative site you told me, no, no accomodations, just make them move.

Make them? How? You have a legal tool you have in mind? You're going to boycott them? You're not even allowed there, how can you boycott?

So how do we actually "make them" move?

How do we actually make Lisa Murkowski do the right thing? Acting like a douchebag towards her is not likely to spur her into good behavior.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:47 PM (KUUXH)

208 >>>Judging by their behavior in all recent "insurgent candidate" type situations, that's a list of things they want—or at least want more.

You always say the same five things. Can you just shorten these to 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5? So you can just post "2," and then later "4," etc.

Good Lord you are a crushing bore, oblig. You have exactly three thoughts in your head and it's always the time to say them yet again.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:50 PM (KUUXH)

209 Speaking of Alaska... Anyone want to hear my new Ted Stevens "airplane to nowhere" material or is it too soon?

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 02:53 PM (i3PJU)

210 >>>Who the fuck knows what their reasoning is? Why did they back Charlie Milkyloads in FL?

Why do you think they did, o/d/b?

You know the answer; why are you asking it?

They backed him because he was a popular governor and the best chance (they thought) to hold the seat so they made efforts to coax him into running. *NO ONE KNEW RUBIO WAS RUNNING AND NO ONE KNEW HE'D BE SO DAMN GOOD AT IT.*

So they chose among their best chances. What would you have done?

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:56 PM (KUUXH)

211 I just looked up the process for a recount in AK after some people said a "hand recount" had started. I was flabbergasted.

The same kind of ludicrous shit goes on for recounts as what drove Palin out of office. ANY qualified voter can contest an election and demand a recount. If it is done by the contestant and no impact is found the contestant must pay for the recount. If done by a qualified voter no such charge occurs.

This State is totally at the mercy of any disgruntled or unethical asshole.

Posted by: Vic at August 26, 2010 02:56 PM (/jbAw)

212 -->When I suggested Park51 be offered an alternative site you told me, no, no accomodations, just make them move.

Make them? How? You have a legal tool you have in mind? You're going
to boycott them? You're not even allowed there, how can you boycott?

So how do we actually "make them" move?

Aha. I see. You misunderstood me. I would imagine that I wrote something like, "No. No offers from the government to the Victory Mosque. They have to move. Period."

What I mean by that is that it is inappropriate for the government (whichever level of government we were talkng about) to make an offer to appease the mosque-supporters. I made an emphatic statement about it to express how inappropriate I think that would be.

By saying, "They have to move," I mean that that is the only solution that I would be satisfied with. That doesn't mean that I can ensure it, or even help it to happen, but that doesn't change what I consider to be the only correct, proper, and smart resolution to the issue.

New York can stop anything they want to stop. I pined for the days of Robert Moses, who would have just paved over the Mosque site and that wouls have been that. (Obviously, I'm joking, but New York beauracracy can easily stop anything they want.)

-->How do we actually make Lisa Murkowski do the right thing? Acting like a
douchebag towards her is not likely to spur her into good behavior.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 02:47 PM (KUUXH)
I don't think her running as an independent is any sort of a threat. It would be political and financial suicide for her. She's not Charlie Crist. Her family business IS politics. She needs to accomodate more than anyone. Or she would have to just become a dem. I don't see other options for her.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 02:57 PM (Qp4DT)

213 >>>I don't think her running as an independent is any sort of a threat. It would be political and financial suicide for her.

Please. She has a lot of the Republican establishment there, she has the people who want federal $$$ (Miller ran against that), and she has most likely a pile of Democrats voting strategically-- she's pissed enough she could caucus with them.

As Crist did.

Your idea seems to be we should chance turning AK from an easy lay-up into a very difficult contest we might lose just for the all-important goal of sticking it to Lisa Murkowski on her way out.

You know, I think you consider yourself rational. I don't think you are, not especially. You keep putting getting substantive tangible results BEHIND getting some kind of petty emotional vindication.

This is just frickin' idiotic. On one hand you'll tell me the very existence of the Republic is at threat but when I say let's treat the Murkowski situation delicately you're like, "Nah, fuck her, kick her when she's down, it feels good."

Get your priorities in order, dude. We're not here to do shit that makes us "feel" good inside.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:07 PM (KUUXH)

214 No the NRSC isn't going up there to convince Murky to run as a libertarian, the NRSC is sending their lawyer up there with a suitcase full of absentee ballots marked Murky.

They are just as out of touch with the American people as Obama. They are trying to shove their ideas and preferences down the throats of the American people when the American people (Alaskans) have already spoken and they want Joe Miller.

Posted by: Firelight at August 26, 2010 03:09 PM (1kUwC)

215 Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 01:48 PM (Qp4DT)
And your probably the life of the party.

Posted by: Mallamutt, AOSHQ batting practice pitcher at August 26, 2010 03:10 PM (OWjjx)

216 To Firelight and the rest of the shrieking bitches,

whatever, I give up.

I thought I was talking to men, but I'm talking to hysterical shrieking sissies that want to jump on the chairs and start screaming like little girls every five minutes.

Whatever, you're right, you're all right.

STAY THE FUCK HOME ON ELECTION DAY. TEACH US ALL A FUCKING LESSON, HEROES.

I give up.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:12 PM (KUUXH)

217 I am going to start writing this blog as the "men" and the "True Conservative Heroes" wish it to be written: I am going to urge people to stay home and throw their votes away on protest candidates because that's how we defeat Obama, I guess.

You wanted it, okay, here it comes.

I am tired of dealing with petulant children. At some point screaming children get their way, they always do. Adults do not have the fucking patience to put up with the hysterical screaming and crying jags forever.

SO: I am now working, per the demands of the True Patirot Brigade, to lose as many seats as possible.

I hope you enjoy it, "Men."

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:14 PM (KUUXH)

218 Dude. Ace. You're doing it again. Go have a smoke.

Posted by: runninrebel at August 26, 2010 03:15 PM (i3PJU)

219 No, if it's what the people want, it's what the people want.

New post up on this.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:18 PM (KUUXH)

220 Folks might find this interesting. From an Alaskan friend of mine who is very active in local politics:

Every election we seem to have an election that goes within
single digits, so it is not that uncommon. In 2008, Stevens came out of
election eve with about a 2000 vote lead. After they counted the absentee
and questioned ballots – mostly from the bush (for non-Alaskans, the remote rural areas of the state not either POTUS), he had lost by about
3000. After 40 years of dumping billions into the bush, they turned
against him.

Murkowski doesn’t have that working for her, as this was a
primary and her people simply didn’t turn out strongly. There was a
ballot initiative that requires parental notification before an abortion was
performed on a minor to overturn a state Supreme Court brain fart that passed
55-45%. The pro life people who turned out all voted for Miller.
Lisa’s pro choice stands caught up with her. Her squishiness on defunding
and repealing ObamaCare also hurt her. Her support of Cap Trade
also hurt her. You do enough of these things and you end up losing –
especially in a conservative year. While she could probably run as a
losertarian, I don’t think she will.

More disturbing is the rumor that the democrat party in the
state will bounce their nominee off the ticket and install Phony Tony Knowles as
their nominee in an attempt to steal yet another senate seat. This is a
credible rumor and the democrats are sufficiently venal to pull it off. Palin
and Murkowski both beat Knowles in statewide races over the last 4 years.
I don’t think he will do as well as they think he is going to do, as expected
Obama administration actions against oil, natural gas, mining and other resource
extraction industries over the next few months will be used against him.
He also did several infuriating things while governor that we are still having
problems with.
All that being said, and with the democrat party being the only
fully legal criminal enterprise in this nation, I fully expect them to try
it.

Nobody is finding boxes of absentee ballots. We haven’t
that sort of problem since I have been living up here (18 years). I
wouldn’t be surprised if she loses. Wouldn’t be surprised if
she wins. The next couple of weeks are going to be most
interesting.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at August 26, 2010 03:19 PM (8kq7+)

221 I thought I was talking to men, but I'm talking to hysterical shrieking
sissies that want to jump on the chairs and start screaming like little
girls every five minutes.

Ace; some of these people like "Firelight" I have never seen posting here before. They may not be "concern trolls" but they are sure not regulars.

Posted by: Vic at August 26, 2010 03:20 PM (/jbAw)

222 A new type of concern troll? A true believer troll?

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 26, 2010 03:26 PM (X+sda)

223 -->Please. She has a lot of the Republican
establishment there, she has the people who want federal $$$ (Miller ran
against that), and she has most likely a pile of Democrats voting
strategically-- she's pissed enough she could caucus with them.

Okay. She's crazy enough and wild enough to do that, but she'll be convinced to be civilized with the visit of some dude from the NRSC. I see.

-->As Crist did.

I believe I addressed this concern in my last comment.

-->Your idea seems to be we should chance turning AK from an easy lay-up
into a very difficult contest we might lose just for the all-important
goal of sticking it to Lisa Murkowski on her way out.

Again, on the one side you argue what a back-stabbing, insane, lunatic she "could" be and then you seem to think that there is some easy fix for that that I am refusing to sanction, for whatever my sanction is worth. The NRSC has no business in primaries and certainly no business in primary recounts. What do you think they're going to say to her? What magical words are going to be uttered that soothes the savage political beast, as you seem to be describing her?

-->You know, I think you consider yourself rational. I don't think you
are, not especially. You keep putting getting substantive tangible
results BEHIND getting some kind of petty emotional vindication.

Huh? What I believe is right, and correct, is not some petty emotional vindication. That is what I think. What do you care what I think is correct? You disagree with me. You make it sound as if I'm trying to destroy the world for cheap kicks.

-->This is just frickin' idiotic. On one hand you'll tell me the very
existence of the Republic is at threat

It most certainly is.

-->but when I say let's treat the
Murkowski situation delicately you're like, "Nah, fuck her, kick her
when she's down, it feels good."

Yet, once again, I never wrote anything of the sort. Mischaracterizing my comments is almost a sport for you. And this situation is not going to have an effect, one way or another, on the ultimate fate of the Republic.

-->Get your priorities in order, dude. We're not here to do shit that makes us "feel" good inside.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:07 PM (KUUXH)
I argue for what I think is right and what I think is the correct way to effect that. I assume that pretty much everyone else here, save the trolls, is doing the same.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 26, 2010 03:27 PM (Qp4DT)

224 I'M A MAN, I'M 40!!!!

Posted by: I'm A Man I'm 40!! at August 26, 2010 03:27 PM (ngD76)

225 >>>A new type of concern troll? A true believer troll?

This may be a concern troll but it is mimicking the freak-outs that actually occur on a daily basis, the conspiracy-theories, the They-are-out-to-get-me stuff, the better-we-lose-than-win shit, etc.

I mean, this is a real thing and it's not new. If "Firelight" is a concern troll, it is successfully parroting the shit non-trolls say every three minutes.

Posted by: ace at August 26, 2010 03:29 PM (KUUXH)

226 WT flying F...?

Posted by: Kensington at August 26, 2010 03:30 PM (mEyVv)

227 The lawyer has to physically go to Alaska because that's the only way he can deliver the PUDDING!
Once Lisa smears on some butterscotch, she will see the wisdom of the electorate.

Posted by: Teran Solo at August 26, 2010 03:33 PM (NNM4l)

228 Ace, why do you care so much? This is the internet, and haters gonna hate. Ignore trolls, have smokes.

Posted by: ShreddyK at August 26, 2010 03:38 PM (5Wmn7)

229 And, once again, what "important of sensitive negotiations" does the NRSC need to have with Murkowski? Please be specific.

If, after the absentee ballots are counted, the race is close (but she has lost), she can request a recount. Obviously it would be better if she didn't.

And, if she has lost, she can either throw her support behind Miller or withhold it or, perhaps, try to run in the general (we're waiting to see if that's possible). Again, it would be best if she supported the nominee.

Those are sorts of things they are negotiating.

You know, I'm sorry that in your corner of reality everything is done by phone or email. And by sorry, I mean I'm terribly sorry for your clients, if you have any. When I had programmers working for me, they dealt with me (and my staff) face-to-face. Things went much better that way.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 03:39 PM (4/eCJ)

230 @231
Of course, to meet face to face you'd have to get out of your pajamas, shower, and work regular office hours.

Posted by: Y-not at August 26, 2010 03:40 PM (4/eCJ)

231 new thread

Posted by: maverick muse at August 26, 2010 03:42 PM (H+LJc)

232 Murky just needs to grow up and realize the seat isn't hers by birthright. SHE chose to dismiss conservatives in Alaska when she served in DC, supporting abortion and the disastrous cap-'n'-tax bill, and showing little interest in repeal of Obamacare. SHE chose not to spend all her money on the campaign, or even time on the stump. SHE chose to ignore Miller and dismiss him as a challenger.

SHE lost, and SHE needs to accept it and move on. There is no one to blame but the one in the mirror, Toots!

Posted by: Adjoran at August 26, 2010 03:50 PM (VfmLu)

233 Hi Ace.
My balls are bigger than a 1960 GMC Stepside pickup truck and my odor causes middle-aged women to spontaneously ovulate. When I fart, softwood forests crash down in splinters. I have been known to devour entire species with barbeque sauce as a nosh, my guns are all loaded and plated with elements taken from the heart of supernovae with my own fucking hands, and I can shoot quarks off of a tip of a hair on the head of an ovulating real estate agent more than a light-month away without looking.
My wrath is terrible, my generosity legendary, and I have been known to smile at cabbages so hard that they develop a culture, bluegrass music, and the ability to tapdance. Cabbages, may I remind you. Cabbages.
Therefore:
Anyone who doesn't vote is a pussy.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at August 26, 2010 03:50 PM (CMZEb)

234 Should we pile on Ace? How's this:

I hardly ever comment, but today I had to speak up. I thought the republicans were listening to us and finally making the changes the public needs. Not so, apparently. Now I'm rethinking supporting the GOP, and so should you."

Posted by: CC at August 26, 2010 03:51 PM (klw4o)

235 Instead of staying at home on election day, I think I'll just stay in a bar.

Posted by: Oilfield Dude at August 26, 2010 03:56 PM (Cx5cx)

236 @231
"You know, I'm sorry that in your corner of reality everything is done by phone or email. And by sorry, I mean I'm terribly sorry for your clients, if you have any. When I had programmers working for me, they dealt with me (and my staff) face-to-face. Things went much better that way. "
Is that because when you had programmers working for you all phones had cords and you can't exactly email punch cards now can you?

Posted by: Strategic Corporal USMC at August 26, 2010 03:57 PM (R2fpr)

237 Post #222
Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at August 26, 2010 03:19 PM (8kq7+)

Thank you for that post from your AK friend. ^_^ I don't mean to sound so negative but my home state drives me crazy.
mac :]

Posted by: macbrooks at August 26, 2010 03:57 PM (J+MD4)

238 222 Macbrooks:
You are welcome, I thought people might find actual knowledge from someone who lives in AK interesting -- and I don't think you are negative at all. I did not understand until I started visiting AK how freaking H U G E it is, and how isolated some areas are. It isn't a nefarious plot, it really could take a week to get some of those absentee ballots in. I am surprised more people aren't talking about the Knowles angle, that seem like a much bigger deal to me.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at August 26, 2010 04:11 PM (8kq7+)

239 Seems to me that Ace is right (what does that make, like 5000 in a row?) I can certainly see why people are totally ready to throw the NRSC out, but c'mon, the lawyer hasn't even gotten there yet! Let's not get the rope and erect the gallows until they actually DO something. To the extent that all this freaking out reminds these assholes how little we trust them or their motives, I think that it is probably slightly useful (and cathartic), but I think we should really wait before we go into full-throated "KILL THEM ALL AND LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT!" mode.

David (concern troll par excellence)

Posted by: David, infamous sockpuppet at August 26, 2010 04:14 PM (HvPvs)

240 What did it get them to help Specter over Toomey?

They should stay out of contested primaries.

Sure, they're in the business of helping incumbents, against Democrats.
Not in primaries.

They're just pissing us off and wish we would shut up, vote the way they tell us to and send in our money.

Maybe they need a new base.
I know we need a better class of politician, one that listens to what we're saying.

Posted by: Veeshir at August 26, 2010 04:30 PM (fHt2b)

241 Ace is exactly right. We don't know what the lawyer is up to, and certainly as the incumbent, Murky is entitled to advice/assistance from the NRSC.They have to know that the climate for funny-business is mostly cloudy with a 80% chance of insurrection if they some how throw this thing her way. We can't stop this socialist/progressive juggernaut without viable alternatives to their candidates, so we work with what we have, and continue to apply pressure where needed.If it looks like they're getting to some hanky-panky up there, I am sure there are plenty of folks willing to remind them just how cold Alaska winters can be when you're handcuffed to a tree in the middle of the ANWR.

Posted by: TimInVirginia at August 26, 2010 04:30 PM (uBNLO)

242 Don't post angry!

Posted by: BillMurray at August 26, 2010 04:41 PM (FjJQN)

243 This thread illustrates the limits of non-direct conversation.

Posted by: Dave at August 26, 2010 04:42 PM (FjJQN)

244 Calm down, Ace. Firelight is obviously a doucheholster. They exist. Get over it. And for the rest of you thinking of 3rd parties, etc., etc., the GOP establishment is going to be nearly as tough to take down as the asshats in the Democrat Party. They have a lot of power and money and they are NOT going to relinquish it without a fight. Pat Toomey andMarco Rubio are a REAL good start.

Posted by: DocinPA at August 26, 2010 04:47 PM (PmyVI)

245 But seriously, we should stay home. That'll show 'em.

Posted by: Oilfield Dude at August 26, 2010 05:00 PM (Cx5cx)

246 Don't underestimate the RNC's ability to spin everything that comes their way into a loss.

They didn't get where they are today by playing things smart.

Posted by: DngrMse at August 26, 2010 05:09 PM (YsSs5)

247 The NRSC aren't above encouraging her fight tooth and nail over the vote count then get stabbed in the back by her when she runs again under someone else's banner.

Quite frankly the NRSC is just stupid for getting involved at this stage to begin with. Their involvement should have been a phone call to Murkowski advising that she lose gracefully and preserve her future viability.

Posted by: Thomas M. at August 26, 2010 05:16 PM (WHCOZ)

248 Ok, lets turn election day into a drinking game. Bring a hidden bottle of single malt with you. Each time you ding a GOPer (RINO or real), you get a shot. Each time you ding a non GOPer, you have to give the shot back. I'll leave it to your imaginations on how to do that.

For those concerned with ideological purity being the most important thing, well, can't help you there. Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. I don't agree with every stance of Rick Snyder here in MI. But compared to the other guy ... So on election day, I'm gonna vote for Rick.

He ain't perfect. No one is. No one will ever be.

If that isn't acceptable to you (not Ace, I mean those who are panicking), then follow Ace's advice.

This ain't rocket science, and as a rocket scientist, I should know. You can't make meaningful change if you are out of power. And you can't get into power if you insist on perfection in ideology. So make up your mind. Do you want to be on the outside looking in ... forever? Or do you want to win, and then win the hearts and minds over time?

I say the latter is the right move.

Posted by: john galt at August 26, 2010 05:37 PM (9NQ6I)

249 Why waste a single malt on a drinking game?

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at August 26, 2010 05:52 PM (9eDbm)

250 I dunno why the Libertarian party would back Lisa. As a libertarian myself, joe miller is clearly better than lisa

Posted by: 4rc at August 26, 2010 06:05 PM (A+fzo)

251 Ace, my man, chill. They can't get to you if you don't submit to their game.

However it is that they try to get Murky to the general election, she would face the same guy she has already lost to -- and will be up against a more determined Palin machine. If she had done her job as servant to her constituents, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Her failure caused this. By pitching a hissie fit, she will only confirm that rejection. My guess, as a woman, is that she won't be able to take that risk.

Maybe the RNC lawyer should return from Alaska with the message to RINOs that we really do mean it and we really CAN make their lives miserable.

Pudding.......................

Posted by: Terry in GA at August 26, 2010 06:13 PM (7PgaS)

252 Do you think she'll do like the Dems and demand recount after recount until she wins? Scour the absentee ballots for "errors" by Miller's voters while demanding to go by "voter intent" when it comes to her own? The Democrats have this thing down to a science, just ask Al Franken. And in the Republican party, Murky is the ersatz Democrat, so she may feel entitled to play that game.

Posted by: Miss Iowa at August 26, 2010 08:17 PM (J3jFV)

253 The fuckin lefties have been systematically creeping up on us for the last 60 years to get to this point. It is going to take a steady march to bring this country back to a recognizable state, if anyone remembers how we were. Otherwise all we can do is interpret the constitution and build on that. But it will takemany yearsso this is no place for impatience. Get the fuck out and vote damn it!

Posted by: sonnyspats at August 26, 2010 10:07 PM (2DxKT)

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Posted by: VOB Converter Mac at August 26, 2010 10:09 PM (c18Ix)

255 I think Murkowski is still in shock over what transpired on Tuesday. The chance of her winning based on absentee ballots is slim, since the total ballots that have been mailed back are only 7,600 last time I checked. And these are ballots for both the Republican and Democrat primaries. She would need to captureat least60% of the ballots in order to win, which is a very tall order.
As an Alaskan, I will say that if the NRSC gets involved past giving Murkowski advice, then it will create a backlash because the people here have spoken and will not appreciate outside interference in the counting process. The right thing to do, if she ends up losing, is to bow out gracefully and support Miller. Trying to back door her way into the seat will doom her. Just my two cents.
Love reading the posts on here. Some of you are extremely funny.

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Lunchtime Silly: No, The GOP Isn't Advising Lisa Murkowski On How To Run As A Libertarian (or Democrat)And Apologies, Allah Didn't Say That

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Lunchtime Silly: No, The GOP Isn't Advising Lisa Murkowski On How To Run As A Libertarian (or Democrat)
And Apologies, Allah Didn't Say That