Mid-Morning Art Thread [Kris]

Lea 1000.jpg

The 2000 Yard Stare
Thomas Calloway Lea III

Thomas Lea was a muralist and illustrator of western and Texas landscapes when World War II broke out. He was commissioned by Life magazine to follow the US Navy during the War in the Pacific and witnessed many of the theatre’s major battles. He was following the Marines when they landed on the tiny south Pacific island of Peleliu in 1944. His works recording that battle would become his most famous pieces.

In the background of this work is the Umurbrogol Ridge where some of the most vicious fighting of the war took place. The Japanese were entrenched there and the Marines were tasked with flushing them out. The Americans eventually succeeded but were chewed up in the process. Lea has rendered the mountain face with quick, jagged lines and strokes that, I think, help communicate the difficult terrain and the niches and hollows which effectively hid and shielded the enemy.

At the foot of the ridge, the thick jungle is shredded. Three Marines rest near a tank which has its gun pointed up at the ridge. The plume of smoke rising to the right (behind the main figure) looks like it might line up with the angle and sighting of the gun, implying the tank fired the shot that caused the smoke. It adds noise and drama and chaos to what seems, at first, a quiet work. Whether the tank fired the shot though is up to the viewer and will affect the viewer’s overall reaction to the piece as a whole. The battle lasted two months and one of the Marines collapses behind a tank in utter fatigue.

The main figure of the work is in the extreme foreground, so close to the viewer that we cannot ignore him. His uniform hangs off his sun-burned body. It covers him but doesn’t clothe him. It is dirty and torn. His helmet sits on his head at an awkward angle, like it was just mindlessly placed there. It is dented and the strap is ripped.

With all the action and noise of the surrounding work, it is that face, and those eyes specifically, that dominate the work. It is gaunt, with hollow cheeks and an unshaven beard that testifies to the stresses this man underwent. The condition of his face matches his uniform. The skin just hangs off his skull. His eyes sit in sunken sockets. They stare wide and are baggy and ringed with swollen red lids. How long has it been since this man has slept? Is sleep even possible here? At first it seems that he is staring at me, but soon I realize that he isn’t staring at anything at all. He is looking through me, past me. I’m not there. His pupils are so dilated that his eyes have no color, no individuality—no life. They are big, black, empty pits. The things this man has experienced has caused his mind to shut down. He is a robot now, his actions are automatic. There is nothing there. He has been so beaten down by the endless terror of this endless battle that his mind and soul have become blank. I have heard that many veterans don’t like talking about their service. The memories must be too horrible to recall. They are this man.

The painting gives the viewer a look at two different ways of coping. The two Marines talking seem oblivious to the battle. Their body language is neither urgent nor attentive. Their uniforms are more “put-together”. The one man even has his back to the battle! Battle is an occupation and they go about it like a job. The other two Marines in the work demonstrate the other type. They are stripped bare. Their uniforms, like their psyches are tattered and warn. They are in all ways tired. That the two tired Marines are more prominent may suggest that this was the most common type Lea encountered.

This work is an illustration. Through quick strokes, jagged lines, and hash marks, Lea is quickly sketching what he sees in a quickly changing, chaotic landscape. Like an Impressionist, he is trying to capture a mood or experience, and uses the blank stare of a Marine to solidify the work’s objective. Like Mathew Brady’s pictures of the Civil War, Lea captures the horrors of battle, what those men went through, and what we owe them.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:30 AM




Comments

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1 !

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:30 AM (arJlL)

2 Good choice, matches my mood these days.

Posted by: Tom Servo at November 18, 2020 09:31 AM (V2Yro)

3 Dammit JT, that was supposed to be MY 1st ! It's my birthday !

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 09:31 AM (zr5Kq)

4 Hiya !

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:31 AM (arJlL)

5 (disclaimer, today is not my birthday)

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 09:31 AM (zr5Kq)

6 Art. Solid. 'MERICA.

Posted by: FIIGMO at November 18, 2020 09:32 AM (Qf08A)

7 That look when you see Lena Dunham naked

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at November 18, 2020 09:32 AM (J+CnC)

8 Dammit JT, that was supposed to be MY 1st ! It's my birthday !
Posted by: runner

Sorry.

Want me to wrap it up and mail it to ya ?

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:32 AM (arJlL)

9 (disclaimer, today is not my birthday)
Posted by: runner

You should change yer nic to Pants on Fire !

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:33 AM (arJlL)

10 Half the country has had that stare for two weeks.

Posted by: Brett at November 18, 2020 09:34 AM (8BW0+)

11 Very good choice.

Great context, Kris!

Would hang in the den.


Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:34 AM (u82oZ)

12 top TEN!

Posted by: Silent at November 18, 2020 09:34 AM (CrU4U)

13 perfect art for these times

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:34 AM (nUhF0)

14 Finally, some real art.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (oVJmc)

15 S. Pacific fighting was pretty horrendous. I lived on Okinawa as a kid in the early 60's and some areas were still barren...I mean barren.

Posted by: BignJames at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (AwYPR)

16 That is an interesting painting. Muralistic.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (zr5Kq)

17 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (mpeBU)

18 top TEN!
Posted by: Silent

Woulda been; but for Pants on Fire !

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (arJlL)

19
He has another horrifying picture of a grievously wounded Marine staggering around in a daze moments before falling over dead.

Read "With the Old Breed on Pelelieu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (s2VJv)

20 Brett

**Slap** **Slap**

Snap out of it, man.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (u82oZ)

21
Good morning, horde.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (G51Gf)

22 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (Zz0t1)

23 That's our face after election night.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (Zz0t1)

24 I woulda been first if this post had not been processed in Barcelona.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (ZfRYq)

25 Interesting art. Would hang in the office.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (ejd/p)

26 oops... still too slow on the keyboard... note to self: quit reading the content first...

Posted by: Silent at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (CrU4U)

27 The 2000 Yard Stare

aka Mooch takes a Leak

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (arJlL)

28 Great painting, *great* commentary.

Posted by: GuyFromNH at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (Gs5TH)

29 Good Art today, I'm visualizing that this is the expression on all our faces right now.

Posted by: spypeach at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (Up/Jb)

30 Read "With the Old Breed on Pelelieu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (s2VJv)

You recommended that book to me....

Absolutely incredible read.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (xT2tT)

31 (museum catalog subtitle

"You let BIDEN steal the white house?"

Posted by: Banned at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (DMjj7)

32 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (Zz0t1)

33 Thank you Kris. Texas bred a number of decent artists, hasn't it.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (zr5Kq)

34 fookin japs

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:38 AM (nUhF0)

35 CLOSE PEREN, NOT SMILEY EMOJI!!!

Posted by: Banned at November 18, 2020 09:38 AM (DMjj7)

36 Read "With the Old Breed on Pelelieu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 18, 2020 09:35 AM (s2VJv)

You recommended that book to me....

Absolutely incredible read.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Yep, dat was a good one.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:39 AM (arJlL)

37 Looks like the artist pointed the turret at the soldier's head, and smoke from the explosion is coming out the other side of his helmet

Posted by: stumck at November 18, 2020 09:39 AM (w9Wax)

38 30 You recommended that book to me....

Absolutely incredible read.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2020 09:37 AM (xT2tT)

Listen to Sledge talking about combat here. It's amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCIJfM_CgWo&t=1s

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (s2VJv)

39 "They are in all ways tired"

This is a beautiful exposition of a really difficult piece. I don't want to look at it, because it shows how war breaks people. I don't want to think of sending our men and women to fight in wars, particularly ones in which we have no business, or in which we re not allowed to win. Winning means finality, and the end of sweet contracts for certain people, ones who don't care about the men and women who come home with that stare.

"They are in all ways tired."

Such a juxtaposition to the woman who will never be president. She didn't care about these folks - she didn't answer the 3:00 a.m call about Benghazi, after all. Their pain or death are inconsequential to her, her party, her like minded fellow travelers.

Posted by: Moki at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (+X9Vs)

40 My fathers first wife was a young child on Saipan. Her story is heartbreaking.

Worst part was when her aunt took her out in the ocean to drown her because they had no hope they would survive.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (ZfRYq)

41 He's concussed.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (Zz0t1)

42 34 fookin japs
Posted by: vmom Trump Won!

oops, not to offend anyone
I meant to say

fookin nips

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (nUhF0)

43 40 My fathers first wife was a young child on Saipan. Her story is heartbreaking.

Worst part was when her aunt took her out in the ocean to drown her because they had no hope they would survive.

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (ZfRYq)


My poor uncle was KIA there in what was called "Death Valley."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (s2VJv)

44 I had never heard of the Battle of Peleliu before watching HBO's "The Pacific". If the battle's depiction on that series is even half-way accurate, then I think this artist captured its effects on the Marines effectively. What a horror it must have been, and I think Okinawa was even worse, correct?

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (OyyDO)

45 Encourages exhausted soldier by slapping him

Posted by: George S Patton at November 18, 2020 09:43 AM (mqtFe)

46 Not even commenting on a Sniper...they were there. This painting/sketch has always haunted me...in the same category as "The Scream".

Posted by: USMC 8541 at November 18, 2020 09:43 AM (FzhYM)

47 fookin nips
====

They're officially white now, so you can call them whatever.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at November 18, 2020 09:44 AM (sGnvY)

48 FYI -

The nearest aircraft is an F4F Wildcat. The others are likely Wildcats but are too small for me to positively identify.

The tank is actually a Marine amtrac amphibious landing vehicle, modified to mount an open-topped turret with a 75mm howitzer. Designation: LTV4 or LTV5 (I can't determine which model).

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (AMIL/)

49 Visual metaphor of the Nietzsche quote: "And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

Posted by: Thomas Bender at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (k0lFF)

50 Looks like a self-propelled howitzer, not a Sherman tank.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (u82oZ)

51 I had never heard of the Battle of Peleliu before watching HBO's "The Pacific". If the battle's depiction on that series is even half-way accurate, then I think this artist captured its effects on the Marines effectively. What a horror it must have been, and I think Okinawa was even worse, correct?
Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (OyyDO)
-----
They were all awful in their own ways.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump at November 18, 2020 09:46 AM (Uhu8A)

52 The Imperial Japanese Army were a blight on the land

worse mfers than the Nazi Heer

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:46 AM (nUhF0)

53 39 "They are in all ways tired"

This is a beautiful exposition of a really difficult piece. I don't want to look at it, because it shows how war breaks people. I don't want to think of sending our men and women to fight in wars, particularly ones in which we have no business, or in which we re not allowed to win. Winning means finality, and the end of sweet contracts for certain people, ones who don't care about the men and women who come home with that stare.

"They are in all ways tired."

Such a juxtaposition to the woman who will never be president. She didn't care about these folks - she didn't answer the 3:00 a.m call about Benghazi, after all. Their pain or death are inconsequential to her, her party, her like minded fellow travelers.

Posted by: Moki at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (+X9Vs)

Thanks for this. I was not thinking of her when I wrote that, but it immediately recalled her to mind. I thought about changing the line because I didn't want it to be distracting from my overall point but kept it anyway. I'll let you guys decide.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:46 AM (OyyDO)

54 Interesting art. Would hang in the office.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (ejd/p)



After a few days you may want to remove it, I think.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 09:47 AM (zr5Kq)

55 Looks like Ya Boi Zack

Posted by: Chris W at November 18, 2020 09:47 AM (ENWT/)

56 fookin japs
Posted by: vmom Trump Won!

oops, not to offend anyone
I meant to say

fookin nips
Posted by: vmom Trump Won!

Oh, yeah, THAT'S better !

!

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:47 AM (arJlL)

57 45 Encourages exhausted soldier by slapping him
Posted by: George S Patton

Was that wrong?

Posted by: George Costanza at November 18, 2020 09:47 AM (nUhF0)

58 Where will you be when your laxitive kicks in.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 18, 2020 09:48 AM (5myV4)

59 Yeah, that about captures the feeling.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at November 18, 2020 09:48 AM (EZebt)

60 50 Looks like a self-propelled howitzer, not a Sherman tank.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (u82oZ)

It may be an LVT, Landing Vehicle, Tracked

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 09:49 AM (Izzlo)

61 The Imperial Japanese Army were a blight on the land

worse mfers than the Nazi Heer

Posted by: vmom Trump Won!

Heer ?

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 09:49 AM (arJlL)

62 In that one moment if searing consciousness, I knew that the me that had arrived in that torrid jungle hell would never be the me that left it.

Posted by: Brian Williams at November 18, 2020 09:49 AM (wPVhA)

63 I served on the USS Peleliu and we hosted a reunion of vets of the battle once. Very humbling getting to meet them. Even pushing 90, most of them still seemed like they could kick your ass.

Posted by: Biggs Darklighter at November 18, 2020 09:50 AM (LZ7Gl)

64 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: Cosda at November 18, 2020 09:50 AM (fTOE8)

65 That Marine is no Dick "dick" Blumenthal.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 09:50 AM (ptqGC)

66 Heer = Army

Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump at November 18, 2020 09:50 AM (Uhu8A)

67 Worthy of mention is that Peleliu was horrifically bloody, one of the most difficult operations of the entire war in the Pacific, and almost a total waste of time, effort, and lives. The US really had very little use for the island once it was secured.

Posted by: Andrew X at November 18, 2020 09:50 AM (P7RU+)

68 War has always been hell and always will be. It's not so much the dying as it is the killing and watching your brothers die.

Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (WUuhi)

69 On the fourth day of Guam my father had to be sedated due to exhaustion (1,000 yard stare). He had no idea where he was. He was not alone. His battalion had been advancing for three days straight of constant combat without rest when that evening the Japanese launched a battalion sized Kamkazi attack that ripped through the center rifle company. My father was in command of the machine gun platoon but only had half a belt of ammo per machine gun. He wisely decided against firing into the attackers (they were drunk and were instructed to attack anything shooting at them) thus saving his command. The CO and XO of the center rifle company that was wiped out slept through the entire attack due to exhaustion. The H&S Co called forward to my father for help in dealing with Japs in the rear and he had to tell them he didn't have any troops available to help them. By morning the Japs had been spent and were mopped up by another Marine battalion. At the end of the fourth day my father was spent and was sedated. The moral of this lesson is never expect more than 3 days of combat by any unit. After 3 days men just break down.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (anrTJ)

70 I recently watched a WWII documentary (originally shot in color). The horror these men endured was unreal.
The interviews they conducted with surviving vets made me realize that many of their minds and emotions never made it back. The painting seems to capture that sad reality of a mind pushed beyond its limits.

Posted by: DC at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (onMzM)

71 Dang, I was thinking Peleliu before I even read the description. Looks just like the documentaries and movies I have seen there.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (1ISKN)

72 (Willowed from JJ's thread.)


It's wood pulp. Methyl cellulose doesn't exist in nature and therefore was never meant to be ingested.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 08:55 AM (xfb67)

************************

Wood pulp can be tasty. I enjoyed it very much!

Though it did tend to give me a case of the winds, IYKWIM.

Posted by: Euell Gibbons at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (xxG/v)

73 After watching "The Pacific" many years ago on HBO (before I cancelled that and other channels), I read the two books that were used as material, the aforementioned "With The Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge and "Helmet For My Pillow: From Parris Island to the Pacific" by Robert Leckie. Both were very good reads.
We could use men that like in these times.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (uyKdz)

74 this was the reality that justified Little Boy and Fat Man
the cost of invasion was too high

also, the Imperial Army deserved the reckoning

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (nUhF0)

75 "With the Old Breed" is a good, and heart-breaking, read. Sums up the horrors of war.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (ptqGC)

76 48 FYI -

The nearest aircraft is an F4F Wildcat. The others are likely Wildcats but are too small for me to positively identify.

The tank is actually a Marine amtrac amphibious landing vehicle, modified to mount an open-topped turret with a 75mm howitzer. Designation: LTV4 or LTV5 (I can't determine which model).
Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (AMIL/)

My military machine knowledge is: if it's big, has tracks and a large gun up front, it's a tank, otherwise it's a not-a-tank. But if you want a detailed description of ancient Chinese tomb vessels, I'm your chick.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (OyyDO)

77 Pacific fighting was pretty horrendous. I lived on Okinawa as a kid in the early 60's and some areas were still barren...I mean barren.
Posted by: BignJames

Okinawa mid 50's.... My brother and sister collected the bones of a Japanese soldier they dug up in the weeds. When the shoebox was discovered it was turned over to the Japanese authorities for appropriate honors.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (FTlwv)

78 60 50 Looks like a self-propelled howitzer, not a Sherman tank.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:45 AM (u82oZ)

It may be an LVT, Landing Vehicle, Tracked
Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 09:49 AM (Izzlo)

Yes, it seems to be an LVT(A)-4. Mounted a 75mm howitzer

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 09:53 AM (Izzlo)

79 Pedantic, I know, but I don't believe that it's a tank-tank: I think it's an Alligator LVT (Landing Vehicle, Tracked) with a 75mm howitzer mounted.

The LVT amphibious part gets it from the ship to the shore and to the beach; once through the water, the coral, the whatever, the howitzer provides the infantry the extra punch they need while ashore.

Posted by: Al Shabbah at November 18, 2020 09:53 AM (VCQE+)

80 I thought there was a black and white cartoon called the Thousand Yard Stare.

Is this inflation, an homage, or is this the original and I'm misremembering?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 18, 2020 09:53 AM (wzVKm)

81 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: Silent at November 18, 2020 09:53 AM (CrU4U)

82 When son was on Okinawa, he and some buddies were fortunate to be given a tour of some "off limits" areas by a historian who was working on something for the History Channel.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 09:54 AM (ptqGC)

83 USMC 8541

In this painting, the snipers are all IJA ones. Marines are doing the American thing-- firepower to victory. But control of the ground cost a lot of very good men.

Thanks, MacArthur.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:54 AM (u82oZ)

84 note to self... gotta go find my dog tags.

Posted by: Silent at November 18, 2020 09:55 AM (CrU4U)

85 Oh, yes. I'd hang this in a heartbeat.


Hugs to every soldier here.

Posted by: creeper at November 18, 2020 09:55 AM (+Ta2A)

86 Notice the tracks on the LTV have scoop-shaped links. That's to help propel it through the water

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 09:55 AM (Izzlo)

87 Thanks, MacArthur.
Posted by: NaCly Dog

I don't think much of that guy

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (nUhF0)

88 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (48RE5)

89 Kris's commentary is as always illuminating!

At my first glance I thought, "Rockwell!" But he didn't really paint such dark subjects, did he? He had serious ones, like the working-class voter standing up at the town meeting, and the lighthearted ones we know from the Saturday Evening Post covers. But he was never one to deal with such a raw subject as the horror of war.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (wQDH5)

90 What a beautiful write-up of this piece. And what real heroes these men were.

Posted by: Forheremenaremen at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (pmRSz)

91 I'm going to be contrarian. I usually like your write-ups, Kris, but in this instance I think you are trying too hard. I think the simplicity of the painting speaks for itself and finding hidden meaning in the angle of the tank turret or the texture of the mountainside is overreaching.

Sometimes a gun barrel is just a gun barrel, not an indicator of something more.

Posted by: Muldoon at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (m45I2)

92 100 comment rule. [CBD]

Posted by: naturalfake at November 18, 2020 09:57 AM (dWwl8)

93 Okinawa mid 50's.... My brother and sister collected the bones of a Japanese soldier they dug up in the weeds. When the shoebox was discovered it was turned over to the Japanese authorities for appropriate honors.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (FTlwv)

Lucky they didn't dig up some live ordnance.

Posted by: BignJames at November 18, 2020 09:57 AM (AwYPR)

94 To those of Teh Horde quicker on the draw than I re: the LVT, what you said.

Posted by: Al Shabbah at November 18, 2020 09:57 AM (VCQE+)

95 The interviews they conducted with surviving vets made me realize that many of their minds and emotions never made it back. The painting seems to capture that sad reality of a mind pushed beyond its limits.
Posted by: DC at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (onMzM)

Yet they came home, worked hard, fed their families. It was their spoiled kids who ruined the country. The WWII vets knew what would happen if the country failed to keep its values, they lived it. Their kids threw it all away and raised their kids to be even worse. Of course the Bill Kristol and Jay Nordlinger (die white working class) are no help, but then Kristol is a perfect case: dad was a WWII infantryman, Bill rejected his father's legacy (except the money part)

Posted by: DOJ is fat and incapable at November 18, 2020 09:57 AM (ONvIw)

96 After watching "The Pacific" many years ago on HBO (before I cancelled that and other channels), I read the two books that were used as material, the aforementioned "With The Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge and "Helmet For My Pillow: From Parris Island to the Pacific" by Robert Leckie. Both were very good reads.
We could use men that like in these times.
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (uyKdz)
-----
I, also. I came away disliking Leckie - he rarely, if ever, has anything good to say about others, and his writing style is self-consciously "literary", which I have come to detest.

Sledge, on the other hand, was someone I would have liked to have met. He has much good to say about his fellow soldiers (particularly heartbreaking when he introduces you to someone he thought highly of who dies a couple of pages later) and tells his story simply but eloquently.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump at November 18, 2020 09:58 AM (Uhu8A)

97 BignJames was your family military or with the Agency?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 09:58 AM (FTlwv)

98 Apologies for the pre-mature thread-moving posting and any side-tracking of what is turning out to be a very good and respectful discussion regarding WWII.

Posted by: Euell Gibbons at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (xxG/v)

99 Margins blown at 88

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (nakwk)

100 At my first glance I thought, "Rockwell!" But he didn't really paint such dark subjects, did he? He had serious ones, like the working-class voter standing up at the town meeting, and the lighthearted ones we know from the Saturday Evening Post covers. But he was never one to deal with such a raw subject as the horror of war.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (wQDH5)


I think the most serious Rockwell ever was was The Problem We All Live With:

https://tinyurl.com/y2wcao8w

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (2JVJo)

101 I think its easy to get caught up in the romantic notion of glorious war and completely forget what it does to these men. This, here, is the reason they deserve all the respect, forever. Veterans' Day and Memorial Day are not enough, in my opinion.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (OyyDO)

102
Dan Carlin has a really good podcast series going about the war in the Pacific

the series is called Supernova in the East, part of his most excellent Hardcore History series

Posted by: AltonJackson at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (RmyQZ)

103 Thanks for the ID help. Knew it was not a Sherman. Not an expert on LVTs with a 75mm howitzer. Would have been worse without those and the flamethrower tank with the satchel charge team.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (u82oZ)

104 fookin japs
Posted by: vmom Trump Won!

oops, not to offend anyone
I meant to say

fookin nips
Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (nUhF0)



Take your jackets there is a bit of a jap in the air.

He means nip.


-- Attack of the Killer Tomatoes

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (Un9AW)

105 War has always been hell and always will be. It's not so much the dying as it is the killing and watching your brothers die.
Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 09:51 AM (WUuhi)


There's an aspect to it that creates much of the psychological damage, and that's the sense that the person has no way out, isn't going to get out, and can't do anything to change what is happening.

War has been changing over the years, and the Pacific theater, more than any other, had men trapped for weeks at a time in zones of hell. No amount of death and destruction was going to be as terrible, as the constant, inescapable dread that it was never going to end.

The human mind can only take so much of that.

And no offense to those saying so here, but comparing that kind of experience to our own now.. this election... just no.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:00 AM (hku12)

106 Thank you, Kris! We owe so much to so many.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:00 AM (Li1iO)

107
77 Pacific fighting was pretty horrendous. I lived on Okinawa as a kid in the early 60's and some areas were still barren...I mean barren.
Posted by: BignJames

Okinawa mid 50's.... My brother and sister collected the bones of a Japanese soldier they dug up in the weeds. When the shoebox was discovered it was turned over to the Japanese authorities for appropriate honors.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (FTlwv)


Hardcore History podcast is currently doing "Supernova in the East." Just released part five of what will be six parts apparently. Covering Japan in the Pacific with some basic background to start and then heavily getting into it with the origins of the pacific theater starting with their fighting in China. Part four ended around Midway. Part five has had a lot of focus on New Guinea and some Guadalcanal and a lot of other nasty island fighting. So if you don't subscribe it might not be a bad series to check out.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:00 AM (+f/dc)

108 My military machine knowledge is: if it's big, has tracks and a large gun up front, it's a tank, otherwise it's a not-a-tank.

Posted by: Kris

#metoo

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:00 AM (nUhF0)

109 Heer = Army
Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump

Oh.

vmom's speaking in tongues.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (arJlL)

110 I just recently saw a documentary about Saipan and the cliffs at Marpi Point where all the Japanese civilians committed suicide. The footage is chilling.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (1ISKN)

111 I know M*A*S*H is not well thought of here. But to me the pinnacle of the series was the "documentary" episode, in which a newsreel reporter interviews each of the regular characters for their takes on various aspects of the war and on being in Korea. The classic part is from Father Mulcahy, when he tells us how, on a cold morning, a surgeon may warm his hands in the heat and vapor released from the chest of the patient on the table.

Eyes misting, Mulcahy concludes: "How anyone could look upon that, and not be moved . . ."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (wQDH5)

112 Thank you Kris, for the write-up. Powerful.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (4I/2K)

113 109 Heer = Army
Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump

Oh.

vmom's speaking in tongues.
Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (arJlL)

Or Dutch

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (nakwk)

114 My Uncle Bill, fought in the Pacific and was wounded in the Solomon Islands campaign. Joined up at 17. His father, my grandfather, was aboard the Battleship Vermont in the great white fleet. Brave men. All gone now.

Posted by: Archer at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (gmo/4)

115 BignJames was your family military or with the Agency?

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 09:58 AM (FTlwv)

Air Force

Posted by: BignJames at November 18, 2020 10:01 AM (AwYPR)

116 Yeah, Truman did the right thing.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:02 AM (nakwk)

117 My military machine knowledge is: if it's big, has tracks and a large gun up front, it's a tank, otherwise it's a not-a-tank. But if you want a detailed description of ancient Chinese tomb vessels, I'm your chick.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (OyyDO)


Hi Kris,
Hey, no problem with calling a tracked vehicle with a turret a tank. It took me a few moments to figure out what was depicted. I was only trying to add a few details to your wonderful description.

And...when you get into officially what's called a "tank" and what's not, you get into the weeds of tank, tank destroyer, gun-motor carriage, self-propelled gun, landing vehicle-tracked, and a few other designations.

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 10:02 AM (AMIL/)

118 It wasn't the battle. That marine just heard about the 2020 election.

Posted by: Cosda at November 18, 2020 10:02 AM (fTOE8)

119 Margins blown at 88
Posted by: Insomniac

(Stool pigeon)

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:03 AM (arJlL)

120 I've never understood why it's called a 1000- (sometimes 2000) yard stare. I'll see if someone's addressed that in the comments. It seems to me they're closed within themselves, and that they are "looking" (not "seeing") about 2 inches from the surface of their eyes.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:03 AM (Li1iO)

121 And this is why I laugh at the idiots who say Japan would have surrendered without us dropping the nukes.

Every anniversary of Hiroshima, all of the peaceniks bring out their "experts" who say the war would have been over without the bombs.

Bullshit. The Japs were willing to fight for 2 months for this little island.. They would have fought to the death of every last man, woman and child to defend the home islands.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (CjFDo)

122 Alternate title:

"Wait. What? You're Telling Me I Just Fought Through Hell So TechnoFascists Can Steal The Election in 2020, Burn the Constitution, and Destroy the Country for My Grandchildren. What the..."

Posted by: naturalfake at November 18, 2020 09:57 AM (dWwl



A 95 year old WWII vet was on the radio last week. He fought in the Pacific said he lost his friend to the Japs. They bayonetted him. He said his whole family was for Trump because Trump is pro-America. Biden he said is a traitor to the country. Thanks again you cheating mother frackers for trying to steal the election and the same to the Vichy Republicans.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (Un9AW)

123 Thanks, MacArthur.
Posted by: NaCly Dog

I don't think much of that guy
Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (nUhF0)

I have the opposite opinion. But that is keeping up with the Hordes's tradition.

Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (WUuhi)

124 119 Margins blown at 88
Posted by: Insomniac

(Stool pigeon)
Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:03 AM (arJlL)

Whatever. I got results.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (nakwk)

125 99 Margins blown at 88
Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (nakwk)

Sorry. There's still gray space between the end of the line and the edge of the box.
Is there a magic number for characters?

Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (48RE5)

126 Trivia: cultural superiority conspiracy theory.

Prior to the War, Japan and Korea each had two spellings or names in English, which were both used simultaneously. Korea was spelled as it is today, or as "Corea." Japan was either Japan or Nippon.

Korean nationalists claimed that the pivot in English from Nippon to Japan was so that Japan would come before Korea in alphabetical lists, and that this was a deliberate move to subordinate Korea to Japan in the West. They pushed for the "Corea" spelling, but that didn't work - which was, of course, more evidence of anti-Korean sentiment in the English-speaking hegemony.

It is one of the more absurd things I ever heard.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:05 AM (hYcqw)

127 My dad was in the 1st Marine division and was at Peleliu. I remember seeing this picture in his copy of "The Old Breed". One of my brothers still has the book.

Posted by: AshevilleRobert at November 18, 2020 10:05 AM (HBlzO)

128 Not all WWII vets raised shitty, spoiled kids. I'm not, and we raised a Marine and patriot. Of course, there's my socialist sister. But she was a good kid who went off to journo school. Sigh.


Now, my husband's family.....I thank God every day that my late dad opened my husband's eyes to conservatism and made a better man out of him.

It would also help if our public schools and universities weren't indoctrination centers.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:06 AM (ptqGC)

129 And this is why I laugh at the idiots who say Japan would have surrendered without us dropping the nukes.

Every anniversary of Hiroshima, all of the peaceniks bring out their "experts" who say the war would have been over without the bombs.

Bullshit. The Japs were willing to fight for 2 months for this little island.. They would have fought to the death of every last man, woman and child to defend the home islands.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020


*
*

My mechanic's father is 90-something, and he was on track to invade the Japanese islands. He was never so glad in his life as when he heard about the bombs, and Japan's surrender.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 18, 2020 10:06 AM (wQDH5)

130 Sorry. There's still gray space between the end of the line and the edge of the box.
Is there a magic number for characters?
Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (48RE5)

Any long unbroken links will blow out the margins for anyone on a smartphone or similar device. Anything longer than a YouTube link should be run through tinyurl or bitly.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:06 AM (nakwk)

131 A 95 year old WWII vet was on the radio last week. He fought in the Pacific said he lost his friend to the Japs. They bayonetted him. He said his whole family was for Trump because Trump is pro-America. Biden he said is a traitor to the country. Thanks again you cheating mother frackers for trying to steal the election and the same to the Vichy Republicans.
----------------------
What can't unlimited immigration do for you?

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:06 AM (anrTJ)

132 The Pacific War was perhaps the most brutal exercise in American military history. The Japanese were a terrible adversary.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (hYcqw)

133 There's an aspect to it that creates much of the psychological damage, and that's the sense that the person has no way out, isn't going to get out, and can't do anything to change what is happening.

==

it will break anyone

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (nUhF0)

134
125 99 Margins blown at 88
Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 09:59 AM (nakwk)

Sorry. There's still gray space between the end of the line and the edge of the box.
Is there a magic number for characters?
Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (48RE5)


Browsers behave differently. Looked fine on my computer browser. Blown out some on my phone.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (+f/dc)

135 Michiganders please call Mike Shrikey and let him know that the phrase "winner of the popular vote" refers to legal votes and that he has a responsibility to make sure only legal votes are counted. Point out to him that a conditional certification of the vote that admits irregularities is also an admission of fraud.




Also please call all of your non-crazy legislators and ask them to intervene because it is clear that fraud was rampant in Detroit.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (946rW)

136 88 100 comment rule. [CBD]
Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 09:56 AM (48RE5)

Whups, I denounce myself

Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (48RE5)

137 It is one of the more absurd things I ever heard.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:05 AM (hYcqw)

Makes it more believable.

Posted by: BignJames at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (AwYPR)

138 25 Interesting art. Would hang in the office.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 18, 2020 09:36 AM (ejd/p)

How great it would be if a lot of people really did that. And kept the horrors of war a current topic.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (Li1iO)

139 Just heard on Bannon's War Room, PDT has canceled going to Mar-a-Lago.


War.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:08 AM (ptqGC)

140 And I have had margins get blown on my computer before and it looked perfectly fine on my phone.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:08 AM (+f/dc)

141 My boy spawns grandma passed away last night.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Vxu+H)

142 random lurker commenter

42.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (u82oZ)

143 126 Trivia: cultural superiority conspiracy theory.

Prior to the War, Japan and Korea each had two spellings or names in English, which were both used simultaneously. Korea was spelled as it is today, or as "Corea." Japan was either Japan or Nippon.

Korean nationalists claimed that the pivot in English from Nippon to Japan was so that Japan would come before Korea in alphabetical lists, and that this was a deliberate move to subordinate Korea to Japan in the West. They pushed for the "Corea" spelling, but that didn't work - which was, of course, more evidence of anti-Korean sentiment in the English-speaking hegemony.

It is one of the more absurd things I ever heard.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:05 AM (hYcqw)

Korea=Goryeo

What Koreans call Korea is Hanguk.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Zm+LZ)

144 My boy spawns grandma passed away last night.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Vxu+H)


I am so sorry! Prayers up.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (ptqGC)

145 Whups, I denounce myself

Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (48RE5)

No problem. And...I think any more than about 30-35 characters without a break makes phone reading problematic.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (xT2tT)

146 Georgians, please keep up the pressure on Kemp and your legislators too. They still have not checked absentee ballot signatures as the law sets out. Demand that, demand a full hand recount with proper monitoring in Fulton County and demand that your jackass of a SoS resign for the disgrace he is.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (946rW)

147 41 He's concussed.
Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (Zz0t1)

He really does seem to be.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:10 AM (Li1iO)

148 For those in GA walkway is having a protest in Atlanta this weekend. Please double check. Rumors that the SOS wants to certify original count not recount numbers. Also that certification is this weekend?

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:10 AM (gU9Gm)

149 [152 comment rule]

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:10 AM (nakwk)

150 Great choice for today's thread.

Semper Fi.

Posted by: Tonypete at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (Rvt88)

151 92 100 comment rule. [CBD]


Yeah, I miscalculated. Mea culpa.


Alternate title:

"Wait. What? You're Telling Me I Just Fought Through Hell So TechnoFascists Can Steal The Election in 2020, Burn the Constitution, and Destroy the Country for My Grandchildren. What the..."

Posted by: naturalfake at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (dWwl8)

152 "Wait. What? You're Telling Me I Just Fought Through Hell So TechnoFascists Can Steal The Election in 2020, Burn the Constitution, and Destroy the Country for My Grandchildren. What the..."
Posted by: naturalfake at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (dWwl

Pretty much, yeah.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (nakwk)

153 My boy spawns grandma passed away last night.
Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench

Prayers up.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (arJlL)

154 We should have let Japan keep China, tho.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (1ISKN)

155 Would I defend myself if necessary with a weapon and fatally wound an attacker? Absolutely. Defend my property? Sure. But would I commit violence in the streets to let my legislators know I mean business and risk losing all. No I would not.
----
And when their inflation has eaten away all your savings and devalued your assets
When their regulations have strangled your business
When their taxes have driven you to sell what little you had left

Comfort your sweet wife, when she asks, "why didn't you do something?!" with "they never came for me, dear."

No one ever came for 99% of those impoverished and starved under communism and socialism.

You don't have to come for a rat in a trap...

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (aO8Gd)

156 For those in GA walkway is having a protest in
Atlanta this weekend. Please double check. Rumors that the SOS wants to
certify original count not recount numbers. Also that certification is
this weekend?

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:10 AM (gU9Gm)


I heard somewhere (maybe here?) that there was a protests today.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (946rW)

157 53 Thanks for this. I was not thinking of her when I wrote that, but it immediately recalled her to mind. I thought about changing the line because I didn't want it to be distracting from my overall point but kept it anyway. I'll let you guys decide.
Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:46 AM (OyyDO)

I would remove it. I thought of her immediately, and could not shake that image.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (Li1iO)

158 And this is why I laugh at the idiots who say Japan would have surrendered without us dropping the nukes. ...
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (CjFDo)
++++++++++++
The probably would have. The blockade (especially the submarine wolf packs) were racking up incredible destruction on Japanese shipping. The home islands were beginning to starve. Public sentiment was cracking leading in to August.

We would have won anyway, even without the atomic bomb. But that is not the point. We dropped them and we *should* have dropped them. Just because we would have won without them is *not* a valid argument. Each *day* of the conflict was costing hundreds of American lives. Taking the southern home islands would have cost hundreds of thousands of American causalities at a minimum. Stalin was ripping through Manchuria and *landed* on Hokkaido prior to the dropping of the bombs, looking to seize the northern islands against their agreement at Yalta. The number of Japanese casualties would have been staggering, at least in the low millions.

Yes, we would have won even without the bomb. And we would have had piles of Japanese and American corpses, nothing left in Japan, a Soviet occupation zone in the North, and likely another year of open warfare.

In other words, Japan would have looked like Korea after the Korean War. I wouldn't wish that on *anyone.* With the knowledge available at the time - and, I would argue, even in hindsight - the dropping of the atomic bombs was the right move. Indeed, the dropping the atomic bombs may well have been an actual mercy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (hYcqw)

159 The Wayne County Election Board Republicans reversed their decision not to certify after their children were threatened, among other things. Too bad the Eric Holders only work for the other side. One of the most vocal intimidators was an individual actually involved in vote-counting for the State. Nothing about this election is honest.

Posted by: EveR at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (DsGxB)

160 Also, there are claims that a Trump tweet stated the Republicans in Michigan certifying Wayne county did not sign the required forms for certification(?)

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (gU9Gm)

161 [152 comment rule]
Posted by: Insomniac

(Stoolie !)

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (arJlL)

162 Have been trying for days to reach Kemp's office. Lines are constantly busy.

He's hiding under his desk.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (ptqGC)

163 Moderna's stock ticker is MRNA, like mRNA ... cute.

Posted by: spindrift at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (h5TKJ)

164 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out.

Posted by: Fortcoins at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (xnt28)

165 @joshdcaplan 1m

WSJ: House Democrats backed Nancy Pelosi for another term as speaker

Posted by: Tami at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (cF8AT)

166 Hardcore History podcast is currently doing "Supernova in the East." Just released part five of what will be six parts apparently. Covering Japan in the Pacific with some basic background to start and then heavily getting into it with the origins of the pacific theater starting with their fighting in China. Part four ended around Midway. Part five has had a lot of focus on New Guinea and some Guadalcanal and a lot of other nasty island fighting. So if you don't subscribe it might not be a bad series to check out.
Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:00 AM (+f/dc)

Thanks for the recommend. I mostly follow true crime & paranormal podcasts, but have been looking for a good military history podcast

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (Izzlo)

167 141
My boy spawns grandma passed away last night.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Vxu+H)
Condolences. I lost my mom last week. First time any family member was able to hold her hand and comfort her since very beginning of March. My soul will forever be haunted by the feelings of abandonment she must have felt.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (D3cJf)

168 We also live in a time when the term PTSD is tossed around like candy at Mardi Gras.

"OMG, I got a B-minus on my midterm, I have PTSD!!!"

There are a lot of military men and women who, although they see horrible things, are able to depersonalize it or recognize it for something that is outside of themselves and not ultimately about them. Compartmentalization if you will, but in a way that allows them to go on about their lives.

My dad, for example, in WWII, had his jeep come into a barrage of enemy artillery. They stopped, he dove into the roadside ditch on one side, his driver dove into the ditch on the other side. When the barrage was over Dad stood up, walked around the Jeep and found his driver dead from a head injury.

Yet Dad eventually came home, raised a family, was an active church member, led Boy Scout troops, was a regular blood donor was a Big Brother and did not sink into the despair such as depicted in the art.

Ask me sometime about seeing a newborn infant die as a direct result of a medical intervention I performed. I learned a lot from my dad.

Posted by: Muldoon at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (m45I2)

169 161 [152 comment rule]
Posted by: Insomniac

(Stoolie !)
Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (arJlL)

Snitch.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (nakwk)

170 153My boy spawns grandma passed away last night. 
Posted by: Madamemayhem


RIP. Condolences to you and family.

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (gU9Gm)

171 Just got back from Dunham's Sporting Goods. The ammo shelves were bare! Shotgun shells only.

As I was leaving, a salesman put three boxes of 9mm on the shelf and I pounced. A guy from northern Michigan said the situation was even worse up there. Nothing to be had.

Weasel was right!

Posted by: All Hail President Eris, Benevolent Dictatoress at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (Dc2NZ)

172 164 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out.

Posted by: Fortcoins at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (xnt2

You know there was a handful of Japanese civilians to have been present and survived both atomic bombs? Talk about bad luck, getting nuked twice.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (1ISKN)

173 Korea=Goryeo

What Koreans call Korea is Hanguk.
Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Zm+LZ)
++++++++++++
Yes, based on that period's ruling power when the West made contact. And the North have different names for things, too. What is "Han-" in the South is typically "Chosen-" in the North - the name of the country, the language, the script, etc.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (hYcqw)

174 132 The Pacific War was perhaps the most brutal exercise in American military history. The Japanese were a terrible adversary.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:07 AM (hYcqw)

Once a while back I saw some frontline video taken during the pacific war, taken by some army photographer who actually dragged a movie camera up to the front. It wasn't pretty, and it wasn't ever shown much. The part I saw was heavy fighting, Japanese infantry dug in on the edge of a jungle, then one marine with a flamethrower works his way to the end of their line and lights it up. The film captured them writhing and trying to run while completely engulfed in flame.

It was a lot worse than getting shot.

Posted by: Tom Servo at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (Kpl3J)

175 165
@joshdcaplan 1m



WSJ: House Democrats backed Nancy Pelosi for another term as speaker

Posted by: Tami at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (cF8AT)
This is my shocked face.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (D3cJf)

176 I see snipers, everywhere!

Posted by: tbodie at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (lwpdV)

177 "Wait. What? You're Telling Me I Just Fought Through Hell So TechnoFascists Can Steal The Election in 2020, Burn the Constitution, and Destroy the Country for My Grandchildren. What the..."
Posted by: naturalfake at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (dWwl



And they'll call you a Nazi.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (oVJmc)

178 172 164 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out."

Massive vote fraud?

Posted by: Tom Servo at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (Kpl3J)

179 The Wayne County Election Board Republicans reversed their decision not to certify after their children were threatened, among other things. Too bad the Eric Holders only work for the other side. One of the most vocal intimidators was an individual actually involved in vote-counting for the State. Nothing about this election is honest.
Posted by: EveR at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (DsGxB)



Welcome to our mobocracy.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (Un9AW)

180 And, Good morning y'all!

Posted by: tbodie at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (lwpdV)

181 Have been trying for days to reach Kemp's office. Lines are constantly busy.

He's hiding under his desk.


Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (ptqGC)


Keep calling Jane. The number I got through on was 404-656-1776. Blast him out of the water. Also call your legislators.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (946rW)

182 171
Just got back from Dunham's Sporting Goods. The ammo shelves were bare! Shotgun shells only.



As I was leaving, a salesman put three boxes of 9mm on the shelf and I pounced. A guy from northern Michigan said the situation was even worse up there. Nothing to be had.



Weasel was right!

Posted by: All Hail President Eris, Benevolent Dictatoress at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (Dc2NZ)
There is nothing in the seacoast area of NH. I need to go to the range and practice, but will have to suffice with dry fire exercises. Don't want to burn through my stores.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (D3cJf)

183 bad as the IJA was back then
China's Army is worse

they have no ideals beyond power and obedience to power

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (nUhF0)

184 Timely.

Excellent commentary.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (YA914)

185 This painting makes me think of my grandpa and all that he suffered in that war. I'm so thankful for him, and I'm glad that he is at peace. I miss him terribly.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (hQg+k)

186 My dad who was in the Pacific called them Japs all his life. I guess he would be a racist today.

Posted by: AnnaS at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (l4l/z)

187 Good grief. Dems on Nextdoor are giddy about Ossoff and Warnock winning.

One crazy hag (a *surprise!* kollege perfesser) sez she knows Ossoff personally and he's a "wonderful young man."

Also, they are saying there is No Voter Fraud, and there should be no problem with people moving here to vote in the GA runoff. Oh, and all the stories about Dominion machines are lies.


I'm keeping a list.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (ptqGC)

188 164 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out.
Posted by: Fortcoins at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (xnt2

With 20 years of hindsight, I think we should have used nuclear weapons on Afghanistan after 9/11. They played host to, and allied with, a terrorist organization that executed a mass casualty attack on our country and we should have responded in kind.

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (Izzlo)

189 in the same category as "The Scream".
Posted by: USMC 8541 at November 18, 2020 09:43 AM


A print of which I hang in my office. For obvious reasons.

It's fun seeing who gets it and who says "what the heck is that?"

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (ejd/p)

190 I saw this illustration in a WW II book many many years ago. It wasn't really meant for my age then (precocious reader me) but the book had some image that were closer to the truth of the matter than the sanitized war histories for younger readers available then. (Are any of those military histories for young readers even in the libraries now?) But that picture has always stayed with me, as the indelible image of a man who has given it his all and has nothing left to give. Time for him and his fellow Marines to get packed onto a transport and shipped back to Australia to get revived.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (W+kMI)

191 185 This painting makes me think of my grandpa and all that he suffered in that war. I'm so thankful for him, and I'm glad that he is at peace. I miss him terribly.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (hQg+k)

I never knew my grandfather was in Europe in WWII until I read it in his obituary. He never talked about it.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (1ISKN)

192 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out.

Posted by: Fortcoins at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (xnt2

Cleaning out DC...may come to that.

Posted by: BignJames at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (AwYPR)

193 Hi Kris,
Hey, no problem with calling a tracked vehicle with a turret a tank. It took me a few moments to figure out what was depicted. I was only trying to add a few details to your wonderful description.

And...when you get into officially what's called a "tank" and what's not, you get into the weeds of tank, tank destroyer, gun-motor carriage, self-propelled gun, landing vehicle-tracked, and a few other designations.
Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 10:02 AM (AMIL/)

No offense taken. I'm better are military flying objects. It's either a fighter plane or a bomber or a helicopter, and I actually know what a huey is!

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (OyyDO)

194
Keep calling Jane. The number I got through on was 404-656-1776. Blast him out of the water. Also call your legislators.


Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (946rW)


That's the number I've been calling. I've been hitting redial like a monkey on crack.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (ptqGC)

195 Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (Izzlo)

What would we have nuked?

Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (WUuhi)

196 I regret that I never served my country.

I enlisted but was DQed at MEPS in 1991.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (YA914)

197 Where my mom grew up, there was a family that told people that they were related to my mom's family.

And, my mom would make sure to tell people that they were NOT related.

The patriarch of that clan was a real piece of work, constantly getting into fistfights, getting carted off to jail. etc.

My uncle (mom's bro) insisted that his behavior was due to being gassed in WWI.

My mom insisted that his rare moments of sanity were due to being gassed.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:18 AM (arJlL)

198 Is there any scenario where deploying a nuclear bomb would be justified today? I hope I never find out.

Posted by: Fortcoins


You know there was a handful of Japanese civilians to have been present and survived both atomic bombs? Talk about bad luck, getting nuked twice.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe


Why? Are they living in DC?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2020 10:18 AM (0mP7b)

199 Thanks for the recommend. I mostly follow true crime & paranormal podcasts, but have been looking for a good military history podcast
Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:13 AM (Izzlo)


Blueprint for Armageddon is still available on the podcast download. That's all about WW1.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:18 AM (+f/dc)

200 The Wayne County Election Board Republicans reversed
their decision not to certify after their children were threatened,
among other things. Too bad the Eric Holders only work for the other
side. One of the most vocal intimidators was an individual actually
involved in vote-counting for the State. Nothing about this election is
honest.

Posted by: EveR at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (DsGxB)







Welcome to our mobocracy.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:15 AM (Un9AW)


Even with the threats, they only got a conditional certification which I think should be very vulnerable to being overturned in court.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (946rW)

201 I lost my mom last week. First time any family member was able to hold her hand and comfort her since very beginning of March. My soul will forever be haunted by the feelings of abandonment she must have felt

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed


So sorry and sad to hear that. I cant even begin to imagine the elderlys pain. I wasn't allowed to see Mom at the hospital before she passed. May your Mom rest in peace. Prayers for you and family.

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (gU9Gm)

202 My boy spawns grandma passed away last night.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (Vxu+H)

I am so sorry for your loss

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (nUhF0)

203 154 We should have let Japan keep China, tho.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (1ISKN)

Probably. But it's tough to say that without sounding like one is endorsing the R*pe of Nanjing.

Of course, that also triggers the current Fake-Geek Left, who hate Japan and like to bring that up as evidence of why China is good and Japan is still The Worst (TM).

Posted by: Allie at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (vmRc0)

204 147 41 He's concussed.
Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 09:40 AM (Zz0t1)

He really does seem to be
----------------------
There are tons of photos of the 1,000 yard stare available. Concussed people wobble and fall. Exhausted people do the Zombie Walk. He is not concussed. He is totally exhausted.

The NAZIs would use amphetamines to get another day of combat out of a unit. The downside is when the unit crashed it took around a week to bring them back to basic utility. The three day combat limit is pretty steadfast. The old infantry battalions had four rifle companies and were normally deployed two up, one in reserve and the fourth in rest. The amphibious landings were pretty much everyone up with the imperative to gain ground fast at all costs. At Peleliu the Marines were doing this merely to score a quicker take down than the last island. Once you had the Japs in holes with no ability to use their airstrips you could take your time exterminating them. Having been a Marine I can tell you we have a whole lot of obsessive compulsives in command. Sometimes they miss the obvious.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (anrTJ)

205 175 Maybe I am just stupid . What does backed actually mean? The House Democratic Party supports Nancy Pelosi running again for speaker? They voted in the majority to re-elect her. I am really tired of the ignorant and functionally illiterate journalists immediately going into twitter and posting a sentence that requires me to search for an hour to understand what actually happened.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (lo1Wn)

206 Our Country is Screwed, do sorry

prayers and hugs

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (nUhF0)

207 Oops looks like Blueprint isn't available for download anymore. I've just got it saved to my phone still.

Posted by: Buzzion at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (+f/dc)

208 My heart is broken for all of you who have lost loved ones during the Chinese flu.

Prayers for you and your loved ones.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (ptqGC)

209 Military nerd note: the vehicle in the picture is not actually a tank. It is the Howitzer Motor Carriage M8, an attempt to make a budget assault gun, American style. In Europe it was replaced pre-Overlord by a Sherman armed with a 105mm howitzer, which seems like a much better idea. But the M8 did well in the Pacific for infantry support, owing to a general lack of Japanese AT guns and its ability to reach tight places occupied by stubborn Japanese soldiers.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (W+kMI)

210 Of course, that also triggers the current Fake-Geek Left, who hate Japan and like to bring that up as evidence of why China is good and Japan is still The Worst (TM).
Posted by: Allie at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (vmRc0)
+++++++++
The Japanese were unalloyed barbarians and had to be destroyed. China today would likely be as bad as Japan was in the early and middle parts of the last century. There is plenty of capacity to hate them both, and anyone who justifies China by pointing at the barbarism of Japan is an asshole.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (hYcqw)

211 That guy in the painting looks like I feel...

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (Zmnko)

212 This painting makes me think of my grandpa and all that he suffered in that war. I'm so thankful for him, and I'm glad that he is at peace. I miss him terribly.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (hQg+k)

I never knew my grandfather was in Europe in WWII until I read it in his obituary. He never talked about it.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (1ISKN)

My grandpa only started to talk to me about his time in Europe after I had my boys. He didn't share much, but enough for me to understand that war is indeed hell.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (hQg+k)

213 195 Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:16 AM (Izzlo)

What would we have nuked?
Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (WUuhi)

Kabul, Kandahar, wherever. Better than sending our young men & women to fight & die in an unwinnable war for 20 years.

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (Izzlo)

214 That's the number I've been calling. I've been hitting redial like a monkey on crack.




Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (ptqGC)

Keep at it Jane and thank you for doing what you can. My brother also has made it a point to call each of his legislators every day.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (946rW)

215 "The NAZIs would use amphetamines to get another day of combat out of a unit."

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:19 AM (anrTJ)

Pervitin and Benzadrine had disastrous consequences in the long run. You really have to wonder WTF they were thinking.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (1ISKN)

216 RE: 84. I wish I could find my dog tags. Half a century long gone. Too bad for me. . . .

Posted by: FIIGMO at November 18, 2020 10:22 AM (Qf08A)

217 On a Pacific atoll two Marines came across two Japanese women bathing in the still water. They watched for a bit, and after making sure the coast was clear, they stood up and pointed to their chests and said, "Americans."

The Japanese women, naked from bathing, stood and pointed at their own chests and said. "Nip-on-ese."


---a joke my mother told me from the WWII era.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 18, 2020 10:22 AM (FTlwv)

218 83 USMC 8541

In this painting, the snipers are all IJA ones. Marines are doing the American thing-- firepower to victory. But control of the ground cost a lot of very good men.

Thanks, MacArthur.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 09:54 AM (u82oZ)

yep, that's what I was alluding to...

Posted by: USMC 8541 at November 18, 2020 10:22 AM (xGZ+b)

219 My grandpa only started to talk to me about his time in Europe after I had my boys. He didn't share much, but enough for me to understand that war is indeed hell.
Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (hQg+k)
++++++++++++
My next door neighbor was a bomber over Europe. He never really talked about it. He kept his card from his service that identified him as an aviator in his wallet, and showed it to me once. He was clearly very proud of his service in Europe, but never discussed it in any detail.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (hYcqw)

220 203 154 We should have let Japan keep China, tho.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:11 AM (1ISKN)
-------------------------
Not really. We had a long term foreign policy to bring China into the first world. Where China failed was expending their nationalists to fight the Japanese while Mao built his army to make him emperor. We were very surprised when Mao succeeded. At that point Japan and latter Korea became our outposts.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (anrTJ)

221 44 I had never heard of the Battle of Peleliu before watching HBO's "The Pacific". If the battle's depiction on that series is even half-way accurate, then I think this artist captured its effects on the Marines effectively. What a horror it must have been, and I think Okinawa was even worse, correct?
Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:41 AM (OyyDO)

-------------------------

Great uncle at Okinawa. Had the same look in his eyes until the day he died.

Posted by: CZ = FNG To Remain Silent Because, FNG at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (MkuC5)

222 I'm old enough to remember when sources said Nancy didn't have the votes for speaker.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (22mNy)

223


Have been trying for days to reach Kemp's office. Lines are constantly busy.

He's hiding under his desk.
Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (ptqGC)


Jane,


from Lin Wood :

"Last night, I filed an Emergency Motion for Injunctive Relief against GA Secretary of State.

Relief sought includes an order prohibiting certification which includes defective absentee ballots & requiring that a hand recount be performed."

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (zr5Kq)

224 Evidently, we need a better Kraken

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (Zmnko)

225 Pervitin and Benzadrine had disastrous consequences in the long run. You really have to wonder WTF they were thinking.
===============
That using heroin to relieve toothaches was just peachy??

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (UDapT)

226 Pervitin and Benzadrine had disastrous consequences in the long run. You really have to wonder WTF they were thinking.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:21 AM (1ISKN)

They sold it over the counter in Germany. On their retreat in Russia during the winter, lot of frostbite because they didn't realize their extremities were freezing.

Posted by: Alabaster Jones at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (WUuhi)

227 We also live in a time when the term PTSD is tossed around like candy at Mardi Gras.

"OMG, I got a B-minus on my midterm, I have PTSD!!!"

There are a lot of military men and women who, although they see horrible things, are able to depersonalize it or recognize it for something that is outside of themselves and not ultimately about them. Compartmentalization if you will, but in a way that allows them to go on about their lives.

My dad, for example, in WWII, had his jeep come into a barrage of enemy artillery. They stopped, he dove into the roadside ditch on one side, his driver dove into the ditch on the other side. When the barrage was over Dad stood up, walked around the Jeep and found his driver dead from a head injury.

Yet Dad eventually came home, raised a family, was an active church member, led Boy Scout troops, was a regular blood donor was a Big Brother and did not sink into the despair such as depicted in the art.

Ask me sometime about seeing a newborn infant die as a direct result of a medical intervention I performed. I learned a lot from my dad.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 18, 2020 10:14 AM (m45I2)


PTSD, as with a lot of other mental health conditions, is not terribly well understood by many.

The problem with diagnosing based on the event, as you make quite clear, is that the individual involved is as much a factor as the event itself.

So in other words, that person who is introduced to the trauma, and has a healthy view of themselves, that will often be the most important factor that determines whether the PTSD symptoms occur or not.

However, you take someone with an unhealthy sense of self, put them in seemingly much less horrific situations, and yeah, the symptoms are going to develop.

And that doesn't mean they're faking it, it just means they came into it with a more susceptible brain.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (hku12)

228 208 - Military nerd seen & raised: it's actually an LTV(A)-4, which used the same turret as the M8. The chassis is much different from the M8, though.

Posted by: josephistan at November 18, 2020 10:25 AM (Izzlo)

229 227 We also live in a time when the term PTSD is tossed around like candy at Mardi Gras.


And all the kids have ADHD,,

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:25 AM (Zmnko)

230 That guy in the painting looks like I feel...
Posted by: It's me donna

But, ya don't need a shave, right ?

RIGHT ?

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:25 AM (arJlL)

231
But, ya don't need a shave, right ?


LOL... No

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (Zmnko)

232 Not really. We had a long term foreign policy to bring China into the first world. Where China failed was expending their nationalists to fight the Japanese while Mao built his army to make him emperor. We were very surprised when Mao succeeded. At that point Japan and latter Korea became our outposts.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (anrTJ)
++++++++++
We poured staggering amounts of treasure down Chiang and gave him every benefit of every doubt. He and the KMT stole most of it. Had the KMT not embodied pathological corruption combined with awful discipline and systemic cowardice, Mao likely would have been dispatched after the war.

Chiang's regime was terrible and we pissed away the wealth of nations on him and his organizations. They were ineffective against the Japanese and were humiliated by barefooted peasants under Mao. He was a better horse to bet on than Mao from an ideological standpoint, but only barely. His avarice, corruption and casual cruelty gave us the Chinese disaster that haunts us to this day.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (hYcqw)

233 Motion looks pretty potent.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (zr5Kq)

234 With 20 years of hindsight, I think we should have used nuclear weapons on Afghanistan after 9/11. They played host to, and allied with, a terrorist organization that executed a mass casualty attack on our country and we should have responded in kind.


Agreed. I made my way to what is now known as "Ground Zero" to help dig for bodies. While there, I heard a young woman from the Army say that the Army shouldn't get involved in retaliation - that it was an Air Force problem and Afghanistan should be turned into a sheet of glass.

Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (Ggb9q)

235 My next door neighbor was a bomber over Europe. He never really talked about it. He kept his card from his service that identified him as an aviator in his wallet, and showed it to me once. He was clearly very proud of his service in Europe, but never discussed it in any detail.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (hYcqw)

My grandpa was a paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne. He was a supply sargeant. Difficult task.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (hQg+k)

236 Trees, so ... yeah.
Obviously sniper is on the hill.

Posted by: FrodoB-
cause I am at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (dQF3z)

237 76 But if you want a detailed description of ancient Chinese tomb vessels, I'm your chick.
Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 09:52 AM (OyyDO)

Chy-na! How currently relevant.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:27 AM (Li1iO)

238 227 We also live in a time when the term PTSD is tossed around like candy at Mardi Gras.

Um, they don't toss candy at Mardi Gras. They have enough trouble keeping the kids from getting run over by the floats.

There was one parade that did Moon Pies, but I don't know if they are still around.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:27 AM (1ISKN)

239 224
Evidently, we need a better Kraken

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (Zmnko)

Less talk and b.s., more scorched earth. Getting tired of the hype of #kraken, #twoweeks, #bombshell, etc. Know what it feels like? The b.s. fed to us by the GOP(e) during Obama's reign of error. 1) We need the House. 2) We need the Senate, 3) We need the WH, then do nothing after we delivered.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at November 18, 2020 10:27 AM (D3cJf)

240 I'm beyond believing anything anybody says about this election. For the first time in my life, I am deeply sickened by half the people in this country that think stealing an election is a worthy goal. I will choose to no longer participate as a good citizen (worker bee) so they can use my tax dollars to hurt the country. Good luck trying to lead a country where no one feels loyalty to the Government any longer.

Posted by: Stellastwocents at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (cRbt7)

241 232 Not really. We had a long term foreign policy to bring China into the first world. Where China failed was expending their nationalists to fight the Japanese while Mao built his army to make him emperor. We were very surprised when Mao succeeded. At that point Japan and latter Korea became our outposts.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (anrTJ)
++++++++++
We poured staggering amounts of treasure down Chiang and gave him every benefit of every doubt. He and the KMT stole most of it. Had the KMT not embodied pathological corruption combined with awful discipline and systemic cowardice, Mao likely would have been dispatched after the war.

Chiang's regime was terrible and we pissed away the wealth of nations on him and his organizations. They were ineffective against the Japanese and were humiliated by barefooted peasants under Mao. He was a better horse to bet on than Mao from an ideological standpoint, but only barely. His avarice, corruption and casual cruelty gave us the Chinese disaster that haunts us to this day.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (hYcqw)

Why doesn't Taiwan reflect that? You seem to be blaming what was the existing and somewhat natural state of Chinese governance on a relative newcomer.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (Zm+LZ)

242 Evidently, we need a better Kraken

Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (Zmnko)

A Godzilla-like Kraken, start stompin'.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (4I/2K)

243 234 With 20 years of hindsight, I think we should have used nuclear weapons on Afghanistan after 9/11. They played host to, and allied with, a terrorist organization that executed a mass casualty attack on our country and we should have responded in kind.


Agreed. I made my way to what is now known as "Ground Zero" to help dig for bodies. While there, I heard a young woman from the Army say that the Army shouldn't get involved in retaliation - that it was an Air Force problem and Afghanistan should be turned into a sheet of glass.
Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (Ggb9q)

___

I think a warning shot somewhere in the desert, with the message that another one is coming in 72 hours if OBL is not handed over.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:29 AM (22mNy)

244 If you Americans only had a tank that threw tanks at tanks, like our panzerwerfer, you could deploy your tanks more efficiently.

Posted by: Hermann Fegelein at November 18, 2020 10:29 AM (nUH6Y)

245 Why doesn't Taiwan reflect that? You seem to be blaming what was the existing and somewhat natural state of Chinese governance on a relative newcomer.
Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (Zm+LZ)
+++++++++++
Taiwan took a while to get moving. And I don't know why Taiwan worked better than China. Probably a lot of things. Historical Chinese state incompetence as you mention probably played a role, as probably did desperate survival straits as they were pushed off the mainland.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (hYcqw)

246 It is kinda funny how when there's a painting posted that sparks something in the commenters, they usually don't start getting serious about their commentary until AFTER the 100 comment rule has elapsed.


Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (Zz0t1)

247 Um, they don't toss candy at Mardi Gras.


***********

So those "beads" weren't strands of hard candy on a string? Maybe that explains all my broken teeth.

Posted by: Muldoon at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (m45I2)

248 @175

Nancy Pelosi is 80, she'll be 82 in 2022.

Hopefully some manifestation of The Universe calls her home before then.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (k0lFF)

249 142 random lurker commenter

42.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at November 18, 2020 10:09 AM (u82oZ)

Thanks

Posted by: random lurker commenter at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (48RE5)

250
My next door neighbor was a bomber over Europe. He never really talked
about it. He kept his card from his service that identified him as an
aviator in his wallet, and showed it to me once. He was clearly very
proud of his service in Europe, but never discussed it in any detail.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:23 AM (hYcqw)



My grandpa was a paratrooper with the 82nd Airborne. He was a supply sargeant. Difficult task.

Posted by: California Girl (not Caligirl) at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (hQg+k)

My granddad served in the navy in the Pacific (on a destroyer I think?). The only part of it he would talk about was the fact that he couldn't swim and his commander almost drown him trying to make him learn.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (946rW)

251 129 And this is why I laugh at the idiots who say Japan would have surrendered without us dropping the nukes.

Every anniversary of Hiroshima, all of the peaceniks bring out their "experts" who say the war would have been over without the bombs.

Bullshit. The Japs were willing to fight for 2 months for this little island.. They would have fought to the death of every last man, woman and child to defend the home islands.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020

*
*

My mechanic's father is 90-something, and he was on track to invade the Japanese islands. He was never so glad in his life as when he heard about the bombs, and Japan's surrender.
==============
My mom's uncle on grandma's side was a Marine in the Pacific, and he fought through a few island-taking operations. He was part of the third landing on Iwo Jima to rescue the first two, and his platoon was nearly wiped out as they landed on the beach. He recovered in time to be put on a transport bound for Olympic as well, and was likewise glad almost beyond words when news came that the Imperial government had surrendered following the bomb blasts.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (W+kMI)

252 So those "beads" weren't strands of hard candy on a string? Maybe that explains all my broken teeth.
Posted by: Muldoon at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (m45I2)
++++++++++++
This is like when I mistook "egg whites" to mean "egg shells" - it's hell on oral soft tissue.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (hYcqw)

253 The guy sitting on the ground has taken off his helmet - I would think that would be a big no-no in such a situation, his commander would probably yell at him to put it back on if he saw him. But the guy is so exhausted and past reacting, he's not even thinking about self-preservation at this point.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (NPokB)

254 IL announced tighter restrictions, but not in effect until Friday. Just before T-Day travel sets in.
If it's so important why wait 2.5 more days? Oh that's right.. it's not about the virus at all anymore. Break the spirit and the body follows.
No apologies, I won't be broken.

Posted by: IP at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (w9UC1)

255
from Lin Wood : 

"Last night, I filed an Emergency Motion for Injunctive Relief against GA Secretary of State. 

Relief sought includes an order prohibiting certification which includes defective absentee ballots & requiring that a hand recount be performed




Can other GA citizens do the same? As a group?

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (gU9Gm)

256 If the same people who cheated on the original count are doing the recount, what's the point? This from Georgia -

David Shafer
@DavidShafer
One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.

Had this counting error not been discovered, Biden would have gained enough votes from this one batch alone to cancel out Trump's gains from Fayette, Floyd and Walton.

We were limited to 1 monitor for every 10 counting tables and we were kept some distance from the tables. There is no telling what we missed under these unreasonable restrictions. The miscounted batch had been be signed off by two official counters.

Biden's margin of victory in this batch of votes (99.9%) bested Bashar al-Assad's 2007 margin (97.6%) and Raul Castro's 2008 margin (99.4%). It matched Kim Jong-il's 2009 margin (99.9%).

Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (BJKQV)

257 What's the latest Kraken status?

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (22mNy)

258 20 "Snap out of it, man."
Still angry and ready to fight, sir!

Posted by: Brett at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (8BW0+)

259 from Lin Wood :



"Last night, I filed an Emergency Motion for Injunctive Relief against GA Secretary of State.



Relief sought includes an order prohibiting certification which
includes defective absentee ballots requiring that a hand recount
be performed."

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (zr5Kq)

I'm looking at filing. Lin Wood the plaintiff? Apparently he's suing GA as an individual voter.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (CQ3Qb)

260 But, ya don't need a shave, right ?


LOL... No
Posted by: It's me donna

(whew)

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (arJlL)

261 Madamemayhem, so sorry for your son's, and your family's, loss.

Posted by: Tonypete at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (Rvt88)

262 254 IL announced tighter restrictions, but not in effect until Friday. Just before T-Day travel sets in.

same here in PA

Wolf pissing on turkey day

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (nUhF0)

263 Good morning, fellow morons.

Posted by: Walter Freeman at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (+WWsf)

264 Wakes up
Scratches
Looks around
Dang. Remembers. The look when you've seen the elephant.
Goes looking for coffee.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (axyOa)

265 Chiang's regime was terrible and we pissed away the wealth of nations on him and his organizations. They were ineffective against the Japanese and were humiliated by barefooted peasants under Mao. He was a better horse to bet on than Mao from an ideological standpoint, but only barely. His avarice, corruption and casual cruelty gave us the Chinese disaster that haunts us to this day.
-----------------------------------------
I grew up in Taiwan. My dad was there to teach the ROC Marines how to do amphibious landings and function as a modern military. Its not that Mao had better warriors, he didn't, he had better murderous sychopants. Bringing Fuedal peasants into the 20th C in one generation is not an easy task. Mao understood ruthlessness. Chiang understood governing.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (anrTJ)

266 So Trump gained 10K votes in the count? That's pretty huge news, no?

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (22mNy)

267 158 And this is why I laugh at the idiots who say Japan would have surrendered without us dropping the nukes. ...
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020 10:04 AM (CjFDo)
++++++++++++
The probably would have. The blockade (especially the submarine wolf packs) were racking up incredible destruction on Japanese shipping. The home islands were beginning to starve. Public sentiment was cracking leading in to August.

We would have won anyway, even without the atomic bomb. But that is not the point. We dropped them and we *should* have dropped them. Just because we would have won without them is *not* a valid argument. Each *day* of the conflict was costing hundreds of American lives. Taking the southern home islands would have cost hundreds of thousands of American causalities at a minimum. Stalin was ripping through Manchuria and *landed* on Hokkaido prior to the dropping of the bombs, looking to seize the northern islands against their agreement at Yalta. The number of Japanese casualties would have been staggering, at least in the low millions.

Yes, we would have won even without the bomb. And we would have had piles of Japanese and American corpses, nothing left in Japan, a Soviet occupation zone in the North, and likely another year of open warfare.

In other words, Japan would have looked like Korea after the Korean War. I wouldn't wish that on *anyone.* With the knowledge available at the time - and, I would argue, even in hindsight - the dropping of the atomic bombs was the right move. Indeed, the dropping the atomic bombs may well have been an actual mercy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:12 AM (hYcqw)


If we and the Brits* had simply kept up the blockade - no invasions, no A-bombs - many, many more Japanese and Allied persons would have been killed than were killed by the two A-bombs. Certainly by the end of 1945, and likely by September or October.

On the Japanese side: deaths from disease and starvation, from continued conventional bombing raids, from accidents and exhaustion while constructing beach and countryside defense positions, and crew of air and naval kamikaze attacks on our fleets and Okinawan airbases.

On the Allied side, deaths from aerial combat and accidents/plane failures during missions and training flights, deaths on ships and shore from kamikaze attacks, deaths of POWs and civilian prisoners due to starvation, disease, and brutality.

* The Brits had aircraft carrier task forces integrated with the USN Pacific Fleet beginning in 1945 (maybe late '44). They took kamikaze hits. The RAF was sending a Bomber Command force to Okinawa when the war ended.

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (AMIL/)

268 Through quick strokes, jagged lines, and hash marks, Lea is quickly
sketching what he sees in a quickly changing, chaotic landscape.



I don't know, the military hardware is pretty thoroughly and carefully rendered. So is the Marine's uniform (note the tear on shoulder) and his physical features.

Posted by: kallisto at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (DJFLF)

269 Just saw this tweet from Ron @codemonkey - a letter from Maricopa county board of elections regarding concerns over sharpie problems. She asks that ballpoint pens are handed out until 11/3 when they MUST use sharpies? WTF?

https://tinyurl.com/yy4eupkq

Maybe sharpiegate is real?

Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (8B6Ng)

270 I never knew my paternal grandfather. He survived the battle of the Argonne Forest in WWI, was awarded the Croix de Guerre (which I have hanging on a wall, and have his medal), and came home and went about trying to resume life and be normal (per my dad). He died in his 40s from stomach and liver cancer, crying in agony in the hospital ward in Greenville, SC, because the docs wouldn't give him enough morphine to ease his pain.


My dad never got over it.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (ptqGC)

271 Evidently, we need a better Kraken



Posted by: It's me donna at November 18, 2020 10:24 AM (Zmnko)

A Godzilla-like Kraken, start stompin'.


Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (4I/2K)


Guys don't lose faith now. We are not nearly done. All of what is going on has to happen before this is ripe for SCOTUS. Also, isn't it odd that AZ STILL has not reported results? I think that if Biden truly won that state they would not be dragging their feet as they are.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (946rW)

272 Can other GA citizens do the same? As a group?
Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (gU9Gm)


Plaintiff (Lin) is an "elector", not a citizen of state Georgia.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (zr5Kq)

273 234 With 20 years of hindsight, I think we should have used nuclear weapons on Afghanistan after 9/11. They played host to, and allied with, a terrorist organization that executed a mass casualty attack on our country and we should have responded in kind.


Agreed. I made my way to what is now known as "Ground Zero" to help dig for bodies. While there, I heard a young woman from the Army say that the Army shouldn't get involved in retaliation - that it was an Air Force problem and Afghanistan should be turned into a sheet of glass.
Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:26 AM (Ggb9q)

If we had a real 'Pax Americana', that would mean that any country that harbored anyone that harmed an American would get the treatment you described above. Traveling with an American passport should mean something to the rest of the world.

I've said it before, but I lay this mess at the feet of Reagan. If he had planted a nuke in Iran after they released the hostages, it would have sent the message to the rest of the region that we were not to be messed with. Reagan's inaction after the Beirut bombing only reinforced the fact that we weren't going to lift a finger in the face of evil, and that everything else was just a negotiation point.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (4tiP2)

274 Filed as...

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (zr5Kq)

275 Got my first Invisalign tray in today.

Huzzah.

Now, to schedule a tooth extraction.

Double huzzah.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (NWM+b)

276 245 Why doesn't Taiwan reflect that? You seem to be blaming what was the existing and somewhat natural state of Chinese governance on a relative newcomer.
Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:28 AM (Zm+LZ)
+++++++++++
Taiwan took a while to get moving. And I don't know why Taiwan worked better than China. Probably a lot of things. Historical Chinese state incompetence as you mention probably played a role, as probably did desperate survival straits as they were pushed off the mainland.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (hYcqw)

You can look at Chiang's platform. 3 steps to the constitutional republic he was aiming for. Unfortunately he never really accomplished step 1, control over a united China. The program worked just fine in Taiwan where they didn't have all these warlords and communists running about. Granted he was a supporter of many of China's old practices including the state monopolies, but the actual republican ideals he supported inevitably resulted in a more capitalist and free outcome. He wasn't a perfect reformer by any means but he's not the cause of many long-standing practices in China.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (Zm+LZ)

277 So Trump gained 10K votes in the count? That's pretty huge news, no?
Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (22mNy)



He did ?

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (zr5Kq)

278 Pervitin and Benzadrine had disastrous consequences in the long run.

You really have to wonder WTF they were thinking.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe


Just like us. "If we lose, nothing else matters".

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (0mP7b)

279 I grew up in Taiwan. My dad was there to teach the ROC Marines how to do amphibious landings and function as a modern military. Its not that Mao had better warriors, he didn't, he had better murderous sychopants. Bringing Fuedal peasants into the 20th C in one generation is not an easy task. Mao understood ruthlessness. Chiang understood governing.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (anrTJ)
++++++++++++
Chiang also understood theft. Had he not spent the War years of American largesse stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, he may - but only may - have been able to defeat Mao. It got the point where our materiel and cash losses on the other side of the Hump were so bad that we had to relocate significant personnel into China just to try to keep the theft containable. Chiang was not a paragon of good government. He was just the less bad option.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (hYcqw)

280 Guys don't lose faith now. We are not nearly done.


Posted by: redbanzai

While Trump fights
we fight

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (nUhF0)

281 It didn't help Chiang that our State Department was packed with effete Communists like Owen Lattimore, who'd have gladly taken a knee and smiled like a donut for Mao.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (BvLWD)

282 I'm looking at filing. Lin Wood the plaintiff? Apparently he's suing GA as an individual voter.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (CQ3Qb)


no, as an "elector"

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (zr5Kq)

283 We are building the best, yugest case of fraud.

Shot clock is at 2....

Time to fight with the army you have, President.

Posted by: dIb at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (VJOLZ)

284 Lin is not that stupid.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (zr5Kq)

285 While Trump fights

we fight

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (nUhF0)

Concur.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (4I/2K)

286 277 So Trump gained 10K votes in the count? That's pretty huge news, no?
Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (22mNy)



He did ?
Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (zr5Kq)

__

I dunno, that's what I was asking. Referring to this above:

256 If the same people who cheated on the original count are doing the recount, what's the point? This from Georgia -

David Shafer
@DavidShafer
One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (22mNy)

287 It is kinda funny how when there's a painting posted that sparks something in the commenters, they usually don't start getting serious about their commentary until AFTER the 100 comment rule has elapsed.



We're really just running the clock on the artificial deadline.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (oVJmc)

288 If we and the Brits* had simply kept up the blockade - no invasions, no A-bombs - many, many more Japanese and Allied persons would have been killed than were killed by the two A-bombs. Certainly by the end of 1945, and likely by September or October. ...
Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (AMIL/)
++++++++++
There is no doubt about this. This is one of *many* reasons that the argument "we would have won without the atom bomb" is asinine. We would have, but it would have been wildly more barbaric, deadly and destructive for everyone involved.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (hYcqw)

289 Now, to schedule a tooth extraction.

Double huzzah.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (NWM+b)
------------------

*Rummages in tool box for vice grips*

Aha!

Okay, so, $50 and, bonus, you save money to purchase more movies!

Deal?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (WEBkv)

290 The guy sitting on the ground has taken off his helmet - I would think that would be a big no-no in such a situation, his commander would probably yell at him to put it back on if he saw him. But the guy is so exhausted and past reacting, he's not even thinking about self-preservation at this point.
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at November 18, 2020 10:31 AM (NPokB)


Keegan's book "Face of Battle" describes this quite well, how one of the significant changes in war is the concept of "the front" versus "the rear."

In places like this, there was no rear. And that's one of the reasons these places took such a toll on the men... the ones not physically wounded. Because there was nowhere to go to escape the horrors.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (hku12)

291 Mr Cain lived next to GreatNonna - he had served as a navigator in either B-17s or 24s. His plane was shot down over Germany. It took him a year or so but he and a companion walked out of there and made it back to American lines traveling by night, hiding out during the day.

He sat in his chair in the back yard all day, every day. Never said anything to anyone.

Posted by: Tonypete at November 18, 2020 10:38 AM (Rvt88)

292 196
I regret that I never served my country.



I enlisted but was DQed at MEPS in 1991.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:17 AM (YA914)

Happened to a buddy of mine, we both went to MEPS in 1990 on delayed entry program for the Marines. I passed and he washed out, he still has regrets. I told him I would have never become a Marine if not for him.

Posted by: Quilter's Irish Death at November 18, 2020 10:38 AM (k/TB6)

293 It didn't help Chiang that our State Department was packed with effete Communists like Owen Lattimore, who'd have gladly taken a knee and smiled like a donut for Mao.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 10:36 AM (BvLWD)
++++++++++
By the end of the war, the State Department was cutting off Chiang. They weren't directly supporting Mao, but there were many who wanted to do so. Had it not been for the atomic bombs and if the war had dragged on for another year, the US likely would have directly backed Mao, if only informally.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:38 AM (hYcqw)

294 248
@175



Nancy Pelosi is 80, she'll be 82 in 2022.



Hopefully some manifestation of The Universe calls her home before then.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at November 18, 2020 10:30 AM (k0lFF)
HA HA HA HA--RBG

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (D3cJf)

295 289
*Rummages in tool box for vice grips*

Aha!

Okay, so, $50 and, bonus, you save money to purchase more movies!

Deal?
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (WEBkv)

=========

*finishes tying tooth string to door knob*

I got this.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (NWM+b)

296 This paining is...legitimately moving for once

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (d1uFV)

297 Chiang also understood theft. Had he not spent the War years of American largesse stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, he may - but only may - have been able to defeat Mao. It got the point where our materiel and cash losses on the other side of the Hump were so bad that we had to relocate significant personnel into China just to try to keep the theft containable. Chiang was not a paragon of good government. He was just the less bad option.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (hYcqw)

In that era, and in many eras for China, armies are closer to personal affairs than state units. If you stop seeing it as 'financing the nationalist chinese government which runs things' and instead see it as 'financing the warlord who leads the nationalist coalition of warlords', it makes more sense.

Burma still has a lot of this state of affairs going on.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:40 AM (Zm+LZ)

298 228 208 - Military nerd seen & raised: it's actually an LTV(A)-4, which used the same turret as the M8. The chassis is much different from the M8, though.
====
You got me, there. I focused on the turret but the hull makes it a Water Buffalo. Marines had a great idea there, with a swimming support APC, they had the BMP-1 beat by decades! Still recall seeing the later models on the road to Baghdad about 17 years ago.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 18, 2020 10:40 AM (W+kMI)

299 Just saw this tweet from Ron @codemonkey - a letter
from Maricopa county board of elections regarding concerns over sharpie
problems. She asks that ballpoint pens are handed out until 11/3 when they MUST use sharpies? WTF?



https://tinyurl.com/yy4eupkq



Maybe sharpiegate is real?

Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 10:34 AM (8B6Ng)


Of course it is real. Richmond uses the same optical scanners and it says RIGHT ON THE BALLOT to only use blue or black ball point pen.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:40 AM (946rW)

300 We're really just running the clock on the artificial deadline.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (oVJmc)


It's a lot like being at work that way.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 18, 2020 10:40 AM (nakwk)

301 I don't think PDT gained or lost any, but the recount w the erroneous number would have increased Biden's numbers.

Posted by: EveR at November 18, 2020 10:41 AM (DsGxB)

302 As I said up thread, PDT has canceled his trip to Mar-a-lago for Thanksgiving.

Posted by: President-Elect Jane D'oh at November 18, 2020 10:41 AM (ptqGC)

303 Always reminded me of Wally Wood's style, even though the guy was a comic artist.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at November 18, 2020 10:42 AM (vuisn)

304 289

*Rummages in tool box for vice grips*



Aha!



Okay, so, $50 and, bonus, you save money to purchase more movies!



Deal?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing

at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (WEBkv)



=========



*finishes tying tooth string to door knob*



I got this.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (NWM+b)

*hands TJM a candied apple*

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:42 AM (4I/2K)

305 Now, to schedule a tooth extraction.

Double huzzah.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future!

Just stick a white Good n' Plenty in the space.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (arJlL)

306 *Rummages in tool box for vice grips*

Aha!

Okay, so, $50 and, bonus, you save money to purchase more movies!

Deal?
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (WEBkv)

=========

*finishes tying tooth string to door knob*

I got this.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (NWM+b)
--------------

Fine, I'll toss in a Directors Cut of "Desperately Seeking Susan."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (WEBkv)

307 Just stick a white Good n' Plenty in the space.
Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (arJlL)
+++++++++++
What do esoteric constitution clauses have to do with dental work??

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (hYcqw)

308 She asks that ballpoint pens are handed out until 11/3 when they MUST use sharpies? WTF?


I wonder if you could dial down the contrast and suddenly the scanner would miss votes that it wouldn't miss with a pen.

Seems odd to have a memo specifically changing a common procedure for Election Day.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (oVJmc)

309

I wonder if 2000 yard stare man is a composite or a real person?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (63Dwl)

310 the GI's look: That's the truth?

Voice from afar: "You can't handle the truth!"

Posted by: Silent at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (CrU4U)

311 My late FiL was in the Philippines during McArthur's return. He'd occasionally get exactly that look when he was sitting drinking a beer on the back porch.

He was also part of the occupation of Japan. Marched through Hiroshima on his way north several months after it got nuked. The man had seen things.

And he never talked about them.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (Gringo fuertemente armado-Si Vis Pacem, Pac Bellum) at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (N3El/)

312 Runner,
Can you explain to non legal peeps like me what is the difference in a GA citizen vs an elector in being able to have standing to file a grievance? What if any legal means can voters pursue in GA and other states besides calling their congresscritters overwhelmed or disconnected phone lines?

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (gU9Gm)

313 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (4I/2K)

314 313 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.
Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (4I/2K)

==========

Right after the dating advice.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:45 AM (NWM+b)

315 Clink link and read thread. Send this to the surrender monkeys and the CuckRight thought leaders.

https://mobile.twitter.com/unseen1_unseen/ status/1328891311991246850

"observations"
found 3 vote batches with Trump getting majority of those votes in GA
Wayne County unable to certify vote
NV unable to certify an election in one precinct with 153K votes
Poll watchers locked out of counting rooms
all battleground states stopped counting at same /1
9:42 PM Nov 17, 2020

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (E9WGk)

316 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.


Slap a hot iron to it.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (oVJmc)

317 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.
Posted by: Count de Monet

NGU tells us what to say.

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (arJlL)

318
277 So Trump gained 10K votes in the count? That's pretty huge news, no?

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (22mNy)







He did ?

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (zr5Kq)



__



I dunno, that's what I was asking. Referring to this above:



256 If the same people who cheated on the original count are doing the recount, what's the point? This from Georgia -



David Shafer

@DavidShafer

One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb
County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for
Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count
for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.



Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (22mNy)


He has gained more than that (but this DeKalb error is excellent news and I would think puts them near even now). An extra 2700 votes were discovered in Floyd County and and extra 2600 in Lafayette? County... the split on both sets of votes was about 2/3rd for Trump and 1/3 for Biden. Also a third County "found" votes but I am not sure how many.



Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (946rW)

319 Right after the dating advice.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:45 AM (NWM+b)
------
Slap hot iron to her!

Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (Uhu8A)

320 Gonna call my state senator (Pete McGregor - MI) and express displeasure at the Majority Leader's remarks. Insist upon taking action on the vote fraud in Wayne County (as well as machine count fraud across the state). Might be worthless, but it is worth more than bitching on AoSHQ.

I know the Wayne County no-cert / cert was a little bit jarring, but it could be part of a plan (yeah, I know). When I spoke to my state rep's spokemouth last week, he said one of the strategies was to get a recanvassing, audit and recount. Perhaps the no-cert (then later cert) was the execution of that plan. Probably not. They probably just backed down out of cowardice and fear, but you never know.

I have very little faith in any of our governmental institutions right about now. I will, however, remind them of their duties and the expectations of their constituents.

Posted by: Seamus Moon at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (KDahs)

321 I wonder if 2000 yard stare man is a composite or a real person?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 18, 2020 10:43 AM (63Dwl)


Good question.

It's not funny, but I'm picturing the artist doing his sketches, and the guy standing there saying "Come on, man, there's Japs up on that cliff, I gotta go fight 'em."

And the artist is saying "Just another couple minutes... yes, keep your eyes open wide like that. No, don't scratch your nose and rub some of the dirt off. Cock your helmet. Ok... hold it, just like that."

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (hku12)

322 296 This paining is...legitimately moving for once
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 18, 2020 10:39 AM (d1uFV)

I've been wanting to write about this work a long time.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (OyyDO)

323 Sat and chatted with a wonderful old gentleman that by the items in his office I could tell he was a pilot, and a true republican. (Him standing next toRonald Reagan in front of a P-51 was the giveaway.)He said he flew the recon camera version of the P-38 at the end of the war before flying in a B-36 crew.I was there for business, but he pulled a photo album out of a file cabinet and it was solid gold history. We got the deal done, it took all afternoon, but I cherish the time.
I heard he passed away in 2019, Godspeed Mr. Sandage.

Posted by: IP at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (w9UC1)

324 Slap hot iron to her!
Posted by: Captain Obvious, USS Sea Chump at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (Uhu8A)
++++++++++++
If she's a complicated art school girl, she might even be in to it!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (hYcqw)

325 It's unclear whether the Dekalb county "error" only exists in the recount or was part of the original total.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (Zm+LZ)

326 256
David Shafer
@DavidShafer
One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.
Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (BJKQV)

Wow.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (Li1iO)

327 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

I had Invisalign years ago when it was just getting known and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You will not regret it.

Posted by: DJ at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (O3/K+)

328 Where is Dave in Fla.?

Posted by: IrishEi at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (sGotD)

329 I dunno, that's what I was asking. Referring to this above:

256 If the same people who cheated on the original count are doing the recount, what's the point? This from Georgia -

David Shafer
@DavidShafer
One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.
Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:37 AM (22mNy)

No. The way I read it is that this "error" giving Biden 10,000 votes was in the recount (which really inspires confidence), not in the original count.

Millions of Democrats believe with all their hearts that Trump is Hitler and a Russian asset. Why should we trust any of them to count votes fairly? Why would they if so much is at risk?

And it only takes a very few "mistakes" like this to swing an election.

Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (BJKQV)

330 209 Military nerd note: the vehicle in the picture is not actually a tank. It is the Howitzer Motor Carriage M8, an attempt to make a budget assault gun, American style. In Europe it was replaced pre-Overlord by a Sherman armed with a 105mm howitzer, which seems like a much better idea. But the M8 did well in the Pacific for infantry support, owing to a general lack of Japanese AT guns and its ability to reach tight places occupied by stubborn Japanese soldiers.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 18, 2020 10:20 AM (W+kMI)


I first thought the vehicle is an M8, but I'm confident what the artist depicts is a Marine LVTA4 or LVTA5. The Marines didn't use M8's, plus, the track shoes have "paddles." The M8 had standard M5 Stuart tracks, without paddle-type shoes. No slam intended; my inner military history nut-case demon takes control of the keyboard some days.

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (AMIL/)

331 328 Where is Dave in Fla.?

Posted by: IrishEi at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (sGotD)

Florida?

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (xfb67)

332 312
Runner,

Can you explain to non legal peeps like me what is the difference in
a GA citizen vs an elector in being able to have standing to file a
grievance? What if any legal means can voters pursue in GA and other
states besides calling their congresscritters overwhelmed or
disconnected phone lines?

Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (gU9Gm)

I'm pretty sure he's just using "elector" as the legal term for regular voter. Lin Wood isn't on the slate of Trump electors for the Electoral College.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (CQ3Qb)

333 @DavidShafer
One of our monitors discovered a 9,626 vote error in the DeKalb County hand count. One batch was labeled 10,707 for Biden and 13 for Trump - an improbable margin even by DeKalb standards. The actual count for the batch was 1,081 for Biden and 13 for Trump.
Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 10:32 AM (BJKQV)
++++++++++++
Didn't Stein find exactly this kind of shut in MN during her recount, and then cancel her recount demand almost immediately?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (hYcqw)

334 PTSD, ADHD and the like are pervasive because what is accepted as "normal" is increasingly narrow.

It's almost, but not completely, analogous to COVID.

By that I mean, testing positive for coronavirus does not mean you have COVID.

Having minor symptoms does not mean you have COVID.

Gasping for breath from a lack of oxygen and requiring hospitalization and courses of medical treatment means you have COVID.

Likewise, with mental/personality disorders, what we would have previously considered medically significant years ago is that which required treatment and medical intervention.

But now we will critique even the slightest deviation from the norm and classify it as a disorder, and it is not always with the purest of intentions.

Children are often classified not because their parents, who care about them most, noticed some abhorrent behavior that was causing substantive problems that hinder development and significantly put a child at risk to their safety and ability to operate in society. Such children would be taken in of the parents' concern and of their own volition.

But most children that are diagnosed are classified because a teacher didn't care for the child's attention in class, behavior in the classroom or attitude. So though the child is likely to be able to operate in society in a perfectly normal capacity in the larger sense, they are forever chemically altered in their adolescence with no concern for their long term neurological health for the purpose of being able to operate in a classroom.

Likewise, i've no doubt many suffer PTSD, but to a certain extent, EVERYONE should suffer an irrational aversion to certain stimulus, its actually very natural and very healthy. The reason you don't place your hand on a hot stove eye a second time is that the first time cause trauma. Should your aversion cause you to never step foot within 10 feet of a range again, yes, perhaps intervention is required. But if your aversion simply cause you to be wary of it, that is good.

So while certainly PTSD is very real in many, for many becoming classified as PTSD carries with it a goody-bag of benefits if one can get classified that way. And so it has become a cottage industry to actually get classified as mentally unstable. If you are mentally unstable, technically, you can take your doggie on the plane or in the courthouse. If you are classified as mentally unstable, you can get a government check. If you are mentally unstable, you can smoke pot. Etc, etc.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (YA914)

335 It got the point where our materiel and cash losses on the other side of the Hump were so bad that we had to relocate significant personnel into China just to try to keep the theft containable.
---------------------------
At the start of America's WWII the number one general was sent immediately to China - Stilwell. That was America's number one objective in January 1942. Keeping the Nationalists in the field against the Japanese was our first priority. Second was keeping the Russians in the fied against the Germans/Italians/Romanians... Tojo was the dumbest wartime leader in WWII. He chose to attack Pearl Harbor before Hitler took either Leningrad or Moscow. Had he waited to see if Hitler could take one or the other he would have survived the war and grown the Japanese empire.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (anrTJ)

336 We will fight them behind the keyboards! We will fight them...well just behind the screens with anonymous nics.

Posted by: DOJ is fat and incapable at November 18, 2020 10:49 AM (ONvIw)

337 327 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

I had Invisalign years ago when it was just getting known and it is one of the best decisions I ever made. You will not regret it.
Posted by: DJ at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (O3/K+)

=========

Dolley got it a couple years back to fix the gap in her teeth.

My teeth are...a bit less easy to fix.

Hence the tooth extraction.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:49 AM (NWM+b)

338 wow. this painting is haunting. would hang but definitely somber.

Posted by: IC - Call me Madam President-Elect at November 18, 2020 10:49 AM (a0IVu)

339 Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (946rW)


No he hasn't gained more than 10k in GA. It's closer to 2500.


Posted by: Let's get this right at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (2KBwe)

340 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (22mNy)

341 Runner,
Can you explain to non legal peeps like me what is the difference in a GA citizen vs an elector in being able to have standing to file a grievance? What if any legal means can voters pursue in GA and other states besides calling their congresscritters overwhelmed or disconnected phone lines?
Posted by: FloridachickTrump WON at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (gU9Gm)

I am not a lawyer, but it reads to me that he filed in his official capacity as one of the "electors" so the suit does get thrown out for lack of "standing". Which is what happened to multitude of suits, and at USSC during BO rise to power in 2008.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (zr5Kq)

342 Ace is the place for the helpful toothcare lore.

Posted by: Moron Robbie's - Keep praying, keep fighting, keep your head up, and keep your flag flying at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (XSoJN)

343 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.
Posted by: Count de Monet at November 18, 2020 10:44 AM (4I/2K)

I haven't been since... December, I think? Had an appointment scheduled for April, that got cancelled of course. They foolishly rescheduled for May.

Yeah, no.

For the last several months I get regular calls and texts and emails, but really, I'm too busy to schedule something, make a hole in my schedule, only for them to tell me I can't come in.

Meanwhile... my breath. The.. horror.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (hku12)

344 It's remarkable, even breathtaking, how quick Republican elected officials are to surrender to a fabricated, imaginary, nonexistent constituency.

Biden did not win Michigan or Georgia (or the other swing states). It stands to reason, therefore, that Trump did. And if Trump did, that means Trump's voters are real, actual, flesh and blood people; the very people that elected those Republican officials into power.

And in response, the Republican officials will say "piss off" to them? Is that really what's going to happen? They're going to side, not with Democrat voters over Republican voters. That would at least be an old fashioned kind of backstabbing. We're used to that.

No. They're going to side with IMAGINARY Democrat voters over ACTUAL Republican voters.

That's...again, it's breathtaking.

Posted by: Shenanigans at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (ZR7kf)

345 288 If we and the Brits* had simply kept up the blockade - no invasions, no A-bombs - many, many more Japanese and Allied persons would have been killed than were killed by the two A-bombs. Certainly by the end of 1945, and likely by September or October. ...



Funny thing - General Marshall was in charge of invading Japan. He was also aware of the success of the Manhattan project. He put dibs in on bombs #3 through #5 to use in the invasion! Meant to use them too. So even if we hadn't nuked Japan, we still would have.

Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (Ggb9q)

346 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.
Posted by: Count de Monet


Moron Advice Mart Table of Contents has been updated.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (0mP7b)

347 Tojo was the dumbest wartime leader in WWII. He chose to attack Pearl Harbor before Hitler took either Leningrad or Moscow. Had he waited to see if Hitler could take one or the other he would have survived the war and grown the Japanese empire.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (anrTJ)
++++++
If he had just ignored the Philippines, Australia and the Eastern Pacific, the Japanese Empire would likely have survived with all of its Oriental possessions and satellite slave states intact. Japan probably could have helped itself to the European possessions in SE Asia, too.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (hYcqw)

348 "observations"
found 3 vote batches with Trump getting majority of those votes in GA
Wayne County unable to certify vote
NV unable to certify an election in one precinct with 153K votes
Poll watchers locked out of counting rooms
all battleground states stopped counting at same

...time on election night
Failure to match signatures on mail in ballots
Dead voting in record numbers
numerous arrests for voter fraud across country
Dominion "glitches"
Reversed elections in NH
Down ticket wins
5 cities way outside avg Biden result
Affidavits of 100's to fraud

Bellwether counties no longer bellwethers for "some" reason.
GOP Voters saying their mail in votes were not counted
massive ballot drops with 90-10 or even 100-0 Biden advantage in middle of night when counting resumed.
Whistleblowers at USPS

300 lawsuits BEFORE election brought by dems to force changes in state election laws.
Election Laws not followed
Agreements not followed
100k's of change of address votes in GA alone.
Statistical abnormalities in votes
Delay in counting until "margin needed" was known
"curing" of dem ballots but not GOP ballots.
Mail in ballot envelopes destroyed
refusal/resistance to investigations
censorship by social media
narrative building by media
quick call of AZ by foxnews
late calls of FL, AK, NC, OH, IA by media.

- It's over! Trump should accept Biden! There is no evidence of election rigging or voter fraud! The traitors and cucks screamed ignoring evidence as of last night.


Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (E9WGk)

349 I'm pretty sure he's just using "elector" as the legal term for regular voter. Lin Wood isn't on the slate of Trump electors for the Electoral College.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (CQ3Qb)


Do you know this for a fact or guessing ?

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (zr5Kq)

350 AoSHQ is the place for dental advice.
===================
Especially once Muldoon writes you a prescription for German heroin!

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (UDapT)

351 How the f'k could any voter in a state not have standing for voter fraud? You don't need to be a lawyer to know this is BS.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (xfb67)

352 Y'know, I think that if we discovered an enemy germ warfare lab, that would justify nuclear sterilization - even if we were not at war with them.

Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (Ggb9q)

353 My teeth are...a bit less easy to fix.

Hence the tooth extraction.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future!

I'll send you a box of Good n' Plenty !

Posted by: JT at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (arJlL)

354 For years we knew the GOPe didn't care about us, or about winning. They were happy to be the opposition party giving speeches and fundraising. So it should be no surprise that they're shrugging their shoulders at what happened in GA, AZ and PA.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (22mNy)

355 Medical advice, legal advice...

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (zr5Kq)

356 Interesting...

Ever since WitchDoktor's negative review of my Battle of Lake Erie book went away, my sales have picked up.

It's not exactly retirement money or anything, but I'm seeing some regular sales which is nice.

The power of the negative review in microcosm.

Still love ya, WitchDoktor.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (NWM+b)

357 I am not a lawyer, but it reads to me that he filed
in his official capacity as one of the "electors" so the suit does get
thrown out for lack of "standing". Which is what happened to multitude
of suits, and at USSC during BO rise to power in 2008.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (zr5Kq)


Lin Wood is not an "elector" in GA.
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/ uploads/2020PresidentialElectors.pdf

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (CQ3Qb)

358 I know the Wayne County no-cert / cert was a little bit jarring, but it could be part of a plan (yeah, I know). When I spoke to my state rep's spokemouth last week, he said one of the strategies was to get a recanvassing, audit and recount.
---------------------
My take is by letting them certify the results then a court case can be mounted. As long as it remains a daily dripping of found ballots then you are losing time to perform the necessary legal surgery. The Trump people know exactly what they are looking for. So now the race is on with hopefully Supreme Court oversight.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:53 AM (anrTJ)

359 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.
Posted by: Asshoes


Wal Mart has them for free.
All you have to do is outrun security.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2020 10:53 AM (0mP7b)

360 Funny thing - General Marshall was in charge of invading Japan. He was also aware of the success of the Manhattan project. He put dibs in on bombs #3 through #5 to use in the invasion! Meant to use them too. So even if we hadn't nuked Japan, we still would have.
Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (Ggb9q)
+++++++++++
Yes, no question. Major ports and transit infrastructure were penciled in for atomic destruction in support of the invasion. But the overall point does still hold up, I think, which is that we would indeed have won in Japan even without the atom bombs (forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki, assume we didn't have any working bombs) - but that would have been a far worse outcome than the outcome we - and the Japanese - got.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (hYcqw)

361 277 So Trump gained 10K votes in the count? That's pretty huge news, no?
Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:33 AM (22mNy)

He did ?
Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:35 AM (zr5Kq)

10K over count for Joey The Giant A-Hole. T picks up the delta.

Posted by: CZ = FNG To Remain Silent Because, FNG at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (MkuC5)

362 271
Guys don't lose faith now. We are not nearly done.

hang tight. gettin' my shoes on.

Posted by: Steiner at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (sGtp+)

363 My teeth are...a bit less easy to fix.

Hence the tooth extraction.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, going back...to the Future! at November 18, 2020 10:49 AM (NWM+b)
----------------

Heh.

I believe a full complement of teeth is 32.

I have 24.

So yeah, I've felt your pain. Multiple times.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (WEBkv)

364 My dad, for example, in WWII, had his jeep come into a barrage of enemy artillery. They stopped, he dove into the roadside ditch on one side, his driver dove into the ditch on the other side. When the barrage was over Dad stood up, walked around the Jeep and found his driver dead from a head injury.

That reminds me of a war story Spike Milligan told in his book, Adolf Hitler: My Part in His Downfall:

He and his squad were marching along a road with their commander, Major Chaterjack, when a formation of bombers (Allied, though they didn't know it) flew overhead and the entire squad - except for Chaterjack - threw themselves into the ditch.

Sheepishly, they all got out again as the Major stood in the middle of the road, luxuriously smoking a cigarette.

When they'd get back into formation, the Major said, "Very good. You realize you did the right thing and I the wrong."

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (2JVJo)

365 Rockwell did paint some bloody pictures of battle.
Saw them on display at his estate museum. Very emotionally charged works.

Posted by: George Horne at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (dUHi7)

366 JFC the Doom Team is back

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (nUhF0)

367 355 Medical advice, legal advice...


You forgot tactical military advice. This is a smart military blog, y'know!

Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (Ggb9q)

368 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (22mNy)



You could still be mourning George Floyd and get it for free.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (mpeBU)

369 Lin Wood is not an "elector" in GA.
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/ uploads/2020PresidentialElectors.pdf
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (CQ3Qb)

file not found

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (zr5Kq)

370 I know the Wayne County no-cert / cert was a little bit jarring, but it
could be part of a plan (yeah, I know). When I spoke to my state rep's
spokemouth last week, he said one of the strategies was to get a
recanvassing, audit and recount.

---------------------

My take is by letting them certify the results

---------
My take is they just got bullied into certifying. That doesn't mean Trump doesn't have a plan in a response. You plan for multiple events and make the most of it.

Posted by: SH at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (sX1BW)

371
Sat and chatted with a wonderful old gentleman that by the items in his office I could tell he was a pilot, and a true republican. (Him standing next toRonald Reagan in front of a P-51 was the giveaway.)He said he flew the recon camera version of the P-38 at the end of the war before flying in a B-36 crew.I was there for business, but he pulled a photo album out of a file cabinet and it was solid gold history. We got the deal done, it took all afternoon, but I cherish the time.
I heard he passed away in 2019, Godspeed Mr. Sandage.
Posted by: IP at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (w9UC1)





Back in the early 90s one of the regulars at the breakfast place I frequented was a P51 pilot in the war. Told some great stories, including the one time he went up against a pair of Me262s while on an escort mission. They got his wingman, and were bearing down on him so that he knew he was screwed. So he nosed over and dove for low altitude to break contact, but also so that he could get into the heavier air where he could even the odds a bit. His description of the way his Mustang was vibrating and flapping it's wings as he dove was both hilarious and frightening.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (EGyGV)

372 Picture would have been better without the cartoonish looking guy. "Stylized" I guess we'll call it, but he doesn't really look traumatized or stunned to me, more like nonplussed, "You want to stand still out here for how much longer?"

Posted by: All Just Part of the Plan at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (dYe5S)

373 file not found

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (zr5Kq)

Take the space out. Or https://tinyurl.com/yxwm5l26

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (CQ3Qb)

374 My dad who was in the Pacific called them Japs all his life. I guess he would be a racist today.
Posted by: AnnaS


My Dad and his friends that served in the Pacific in WWII also always called them Japs. He wasn't a combat soldier, but saw a lot of the ugly things the Japanese army did. It was not some silly joke with those guys.
He pretty much hated them until we had a Japanese exchange student stay with us in the 1970's; she was so adorable and sweet, it helped him get over it.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....unfrozen caveman moron at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (ZCiJZ)

375 would have fought to the death of every last man, woman and child to defend the home islands.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020

Official War Department projections (based on experience) for the invasion put the casualties at around 1 million Allied and 5-10 million Japanese. Japan had a population of about 70 million at the time.

We'd have literally decimated the nation, if we went in with a conventional war, and killed the best part of a generation of American men.

There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that Truman made the right call.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est, Post-Apocalyptic Scourge of the Seas at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (Msrhc)

376 ok, now found.

he is not on the list. why is this list public ?

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (zr5Kq)

377 342 Ace is the place for the helpful toothcare lore.
---------------------
I thought it was the place for helpful otter tactics?

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (anrTJ)

378 355 Medical advice, legal advice...
Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (zr5Kq)

Worth what you pay for it!

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (Li1iO)

379 Interesting that Orwell (and others) were writing about the "Orwellian" PsyOp warfare, right after WW2. Certainly the war we have been in at least since WW2 has been Soviet style infiltration and their march through our institutions.


That march was not military, it was SJW style infiltration. The open internet was to allow us all to have transparency, but they co-opted it via Google and the MSM to actually direct all searches toward their propaganda, and threaten and expose Trump supporters. We also have smaller units of resistance like here at AoS, but the masses are controlled and tracked.


The 1000 yard stare ... now they have everyone staring into their smart devices, all day, every day. That guy in the painting ... an icon for the SJW warrior, that now blankly obeys, unable to process logical thought or normal America?


idk, but the current war has been going on for decades ... The four year Coup from within demonstrated that they hold a lot of the "high ground". If Biden gets in do they start seeking out the remaining pockets of resistance, or are the Hinterlands not ready to surrender to DC/NY mafiosa? Whatever ... the real enemy is domestic ... maybe they start foreign wars to kill of more of our true patriots ... hard to say.

Posted by: illiniwek at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (Cus5s)

380 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.
Posted by: Asshoes


Wal Mart has them for free.
All you have to do is outrun security.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 18, 2020 10:53 AM (0mP7b)


In Dallas, you can take 3 without being arrested, as long as you outrun security.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (Zz0t1)

381 Yes, no question. Major ports and transit infrastructure were penciled in for atomic destruction in support of the invasion. But the overall point does still hold up, I think, which is that we would indeed have won in Japan even without the atom bombs (forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki, assume we didn't have any working bombs) - but that would have been a far worse outcome than the outcome we - and the Japanese - got.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (hYcqw)
----------------

200,000 killed by the atomic bombs,(probably a bit of a generous estimate on my part) versus a minimum of 1 million casualties, both sides, if we'd have invaded. (I think there would have been far more losses had we invaded, but, good round number)

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (WEBkv)

382 I know the Wayne County no-cert / cert was a little bit jarring, but it could be part of a plan (yeah, I know). When I spoke to my state rep's spokemouth last week, he said one of the strategies was to get a recanvassing, audit and recount.
---------------------
My take is by letting them certify the results then a court case can be mounted. As long as it remains a daily dripping of found ballots then you are losing time to perform the necessary legal surgery. The Trump people know exactly what they are looking for. So now the race is on with hopefully Supreme Court oversight.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:53 AM (anrTJ)


If this was 5D chess then it's a funny way to play it. It looked very much like two members of the board of canvassers were coerced into certifying against their better judgement because they and their families were threatened.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (t+qrx)

383 well, if he filed as a citizen, I doubt it will go anywhere. but he is the lawyer not me.

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (zr5Kq)

384 368 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (22mNy)



You could still be mourning George Floyd and get it for free.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (mpeBU)

__

Literally LOLed. Well played.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (22mNy)

385 >>> Florida?
~~~~~

Weisenheimer!

Posted by: IrishEi at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (sGotD)

386 all battleground states stopped counting at same [time] /1
==================
At the same time "despite three times zones difference" I'm sure the tweet/s continue

AND those five urban areas (or seven including the western ones like in NV) had Joe getting higher vote totals than Obama so more blacks voted for Biden in e.g. Philly than for Obama. That's really believable isn't it?

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 10:58 AM (UDapT)

387 Best Buy has Black Friday sales with 65" TVs going for $250. JFC that's cheap. It's a Hisense, but still $250 is crazy cheap.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (22mNy)



You could still be mourning George Floyd and get it for free.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (mpeBU)


I wonder if "Black Friday" will be declared racist.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (YA914)

388 he is not on the list. why is this list public ?

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (zr5Kq)

In my state the electors are listed on the ballot. Why would they be secret? How do they do it in your state?

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (CQ3Qb)

389
If this was 5D chess then it's a funny way to play it. It looked very much like two members of the board of canvassers were coerced into certifying against their better judgement because they and their families were threatened.
Posted by: hogmartin at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (t+qrx)


Fucking pussies.

They threaten your family, you break their fucking nose.

We're SOOOOOO bad at this, politically.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (Zz0t1)

390 365 Rockwell did paint some bloody pictures of battle.
Saw them on display at his estate museum. Very emotionally charged works.
Posted by: George Horne at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (dUHi7)

Yep. Rockwell did get heavy at times. The heaviest work of his I saw was his take on the Mississippi Burning murders. Haunting. I have not been to his museum in Vermont.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (OyyDO)

391 200,000 killed by the atomic bombs,(probably a bit of a generous estimate on my part) versus a minimum of 1 million casualties, both sides, if we'd have invaded. (I think there would have been far more losses had we invaded, but, good round number)
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing
at November 18, 2020 10:57 AM (WEBkv)
+++++++++++++
Yes, without doubt. And it isn't just the bloodshed, either. There was *some* Japanese physical and government infrastructure that survived the War, not to mention that Stalin wasn't able to take the northern islands.

Had the bombs not been dropped, Stalin would have stripped everything from the North and sent it home to the USSR as reparations (just like he did in Manchuria), nothing would be left standing in the South, and blood loss would have been staggering. There is less than no doubt in my mind that the dropping of the atomic bombs was the best possible conclusion to the Pacific War.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (hYcqw)

392
That march was not military, it was SJW style infiltration. The open internet was to allow us all to have transparency, but they co-opted it via Google and the MSM



Don't forget the CIA, FBI, etc.

It's very possible the entire 'internet' as we know it has been a method of control by people who have been after that for a long, long time.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (oVJmc)

393 AND those five urban areas (or seven including the western ones like in NV) had Joe getting higher vote totals than Obama so more blacks voted for Biden in e.g. Philly than for Obama. That's really believable isn't it?
Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 10:58 AM (UDapT)
-----------

Like totally, man!

Posted by: brain dead liberal idiot at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (WEBkv)

394 So while certainly PTSD is very real in many, for many becoming classified as PTSD carries with it a goody-bag of benefits if one can get classified that way. And so it has become a cottage industry to actually get classified as mentally unstable. If you are mentally unstable, technically, you can take your doggie on the plane or in the courthouse. If you are classified as mentally unstable, you can get a government check. If you are mentally unstable, you can smoke pot. Etc, etc.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (YA914)


The problem with all these concepts is that it's messy, and damn near impossible to sort out.

To what extent is PTSD overdiagnosed? Probably a lot. And those people going everywhere with their Emotional Support Lizards and whatnot... yeah, some of them have been through horrors many of us can't imagine.

They're insufferable to be around, but yeah, not as bad as living in their head.

Otherwise, you have the random assortment of personality disorders, and those too, if we get down to the nitty gritty, are often caused by exposure to horrible trauma.

And it doesn't help that for the past 50 years or so, mental health has been dominated by psychiatry's love of the medications that don't really do jack shit to help a person change, and often don't do jack to relieve symptoms either.

Throw on top of all that, crumbling communities, single parent households, increasingly Soviet style school systems, and a political landscape that is... you know what it is... and yeah, there really ARE more crazy people wandering around today.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (hku12)

395 365 Rockwell did paint some bloody pictures of battle.
Saw them on display at his estate museum. Very emotionally charged works.
Posted by: George Horne at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (dUHi7)

Searching for

Norman Rockwell war

brings up some.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (Li1iO)

396 I had a barber who was an Engineer in WWII. Came ashore at Normandy on D+10, went across Europe with Patton.

One day while cutting my hair he says "That Mustang was a Hell of a plane.

I still remember the first time I saw one.

It was strafing us."

Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (ZfRYq)

397 @392 Mr. Peebles


The Internet is for porn. Control was inherent in the design.

Posted by: squid_hunt at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (Ectld)

398 I wonder if "Black Friday" will be declared racist.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (YA914)
+++++++++++
No, it's fine. The "black" in Black Friday refers to ink color - as in the day that the retail complex achieves profitability. In this case, because "black" is *good,* it isn't racist and can stand.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (hYcqw)

399 More proof machines hooked up to internet band the placement of routers. Screenshot Thread.

https://mobile.twitter.com/We_Have_Risen/ status/1328797585256099849

I mean.... /1

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (E9WGk)

400 If this was 5D chess then it's a funny way to play it. It looked very much like two members of the board of canvassers were coerced into certifying against their better judgement because they and their families were threatened.
------------------------------
They likely were coerced. This, too, can be part of the court case. The problem was how much time do you have to perform an audit, investigation and bring it to court (either MI State Legislature or Fed/Supremes).

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (anrTJ)

401 Very late to the thread, dammit!

Kris,
Thanks for choosing this image. It is one of the most haunting to come out of the Pacific theater. There is nothing unusual or overly dramatic about the background. But the marine's face gives the viewer an idea of what had gone on. He isn't screaming (that might come later) or determined in battle (which he was). There is simply nothing left to give.

My dad worked at a VA hospital as a male nurse, one of the few big and strong enough to work with the more violent vets with what is now called PTSD. His description of some of the patients reminds me of this image.

Think of the shock seeing this painting after all the years of clean, smiling GIs in ads during the war.

Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (7EjX1)

402 Had the bombs not been dropped, Stalin would have stripped everything from the North and sent it home to the USSR as reparations (just like he did in Manchuria), nothing would be left standing in the South, and blood loss would have been staggering. There is less than no doubt in my mind that the dropping of the atomic bombs was the best possible conclusion to the Pacific War.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (hYcqw)
--------------

Yeah, yet, the revisionist history crowd always says, "But we dropped nukes!" and hand waves away the body count of an invasion.

Yeah, I hate revisionist pukes.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (WEBkv)

403 I have actually stood on that very spot on the Island of Peleliu around aged WWII vets visiting in their final days and whose expressions are often nearly the same as they stand, look around in silence, and salute the ghosts they see. Makes the hair on the back of your neck stand straight out. It's quiet and lush now and still littered with many WWII artifacts lying where they fell. Mad respect. We are so far from that now, sadly.

Posted by: JazzyJ at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (8//Hq)

404 Yeah, yet, the revisionist history crowd always says, "But we dropped nukes!" and hand waves away the body count of an invasion.

Yeah, I hate revisionist pukes.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (WEBkv)
++++++++++++
You and me both, brother.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:02 AM (hYcqw)

405 One day while cutting my hair he says "That Mustang was a Hell of a plane.

I still remember the first time I saw one.

It was strafing us.
-----------------------
My dad told me the story of him shooting down a Corsair while shooting at a Zero with a truck mounted M2 .50 cal. He was a little embarrassed.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 11:03 AM (anrTJ)

406 360 Funny thing - General Marshall was in charge of invading Japan. He was also aware of the success of the Manhattan project. He put dibs in on bombs #3 through #5 to use in the invasion! Meant to use them too. So even if we hadn't nuked Japan, we still would have.
Posted by: Cthillary, dead but dreaming at November 18, 2020 10:50 AM (Ggb9q)
+++++++++++
Yes, no question. Major ports and transit infrastructure were penciled in for atomic destruction in support of the invasion. But the overall point does still hold up, I think, which is that we would indeed have won in Japan even without the atom bombs (forget Hiroshima/Nagasaki, assume we didn't have any working bombs) - but that would have been a far worse outcome than the outcome we - and the Japanese - got.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:54 AM (hYcqw)


Yeah. I left out of my looong post above that if we'd only done blockade and city-bombing in hopes the Japanese would surrender, I believe it would have been a long wait. Allied combat deaths would have gone down some, month by month, but Japanese civilian and military non-combatant deaths would have increased month by month. All but a few Allied POWs would have died or been killed within 6 months. Eventually I believe the US would have decided it was monetarily cost-effective to invade and end it, instead of keeping millions of men and uncounted planes and ships at the ready.

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 11:03 AM (AMIL/)

407 Tojo was the dumbest wartime leader in WWII. He chose to attack Pearl Harbor before Hitler took either Leningrad or Moscow. Had he waited to see if Hitler could take one or the other he would have survived the war and grown the Japanese empire.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 10:48 AM (anrTJ)
++++++
If he had just ignored the Philippines, Australia and the Eastern Pacific, the Japanese Empire would likely have survived with all of its Oriental possessions and satellite slave states intact. Japan probably could have helped itself to the European possessions in SE Asia, too.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 10:51 AM (hYcqw)

Imagine what would have happened if, instead of attacking the USA, he'd attacked Russia while the Germans were still advancing.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est, Post-Apocalyptic Scourge of the Seas at November 18, 2020 11:03 AM (Msrhc)

408
Trump paying for partial recount in WI.

What he needs to do is get ahold of the list of 240,000 WI voters who either moved or are dead and we're due to be purged from the voter roles. The WI SC didn't rule on the lawsuit so the purge didn't happen. The WI election commission has the list but wont release it to the public.

If just 10% of the people on that list, presumably voting for Biden, was thrown out, Trump would be the winner

Posted by: WisRich at November 18, 2020 11:04 AM (G0vdT)

409 Think of the shock seeing this painting after all the years of clean, smiling GIs in ads during the war.
Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (7EjX1)

Yeah. Similar to the Brady/O'Sullivan pictures from the Civil War. You have this belief of honorable battle and a glorious death, then those get released. It must have been a punch to the face.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 11:05 AM (OyyDO)

410 More proof machines hooked up to internet band the placement of routers. Screenshot Thread.

https://mobile.twitter.com/We_Have_Risen/ status/1328797585256099849

I mean.... /1

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (E9WGk)

-

It's so weird how sports and entertainment pages load on the first try, but conservative political posts "aren't available to you" and require at least one refresh.

Posted by: Moron Robbie's - Keep praying, keep fighting, keep your head up, and keep your flag flying at November 18, 2020 11:05 AM (XSoJN)

411 I've been wanting to write about this work a long time.
Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 10:46 AM (OyyDO)


Good job.

Posted by: Captain Hate at November 18, 2020 11:05 AM (y7DUB)

412 Imagine what would have happened if, instead of attacking the USA, he'd attacked Russia while the Germans were still advancing.
Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est, Post-Apocalyptic Scourge of the Seas at November 18, 2020 11:03 AM (Msrhc)
++++++++++++
I doubt they could have. That would have been a major land campaign while they were still struggling to consolidate gains in China. Why poke the Russian bear when you're still barely off the coast in China? I could see them violating Soviet sovereignty for the purposes of encircling Chinese targets and in support of operations there, but not going after the USSR. The accessible part of the USSR wasn't particularly valuable. I am sure Hitler would have loved for them to try, but I can't think of a scenario where they actually *would.*

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:05 AM (hYcqw)

413 Planners requested 3 A-bombs per main invasion area on Kyushu for Operation Olympic, so, 9 nukes for the (first) invasion. November 1 1945. If you look at the 3 planned invasion zones, it doesn't seem nukes would make that much difference, because the defenses in depth are not concentrated (especially the Miyazaki area).

In any case, it was never a situation of "atomic attacks, OR invasion". It was both.

Reason #459 that the entire "debate" over use of the nukes is among the most ridiculous of the many ridiculous false disputes of the post-war era.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:06 AM (OTzUX)

414 It's unclear whether the Dekalb county "error" only exists in the recount or was part of the original total.

Posted by: Warlord Someguy - General Who Pacifies The East and West at November 18, 2020 10:47 AM (Zm+LZ)


David Shafer (chairman of the GOP in GA) is saying that they won't know whether the mistake was included in the original count without an audit.https://twitter.com/DavidShafer/status/1329089702029262850

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 11:06 AM (946rW)

415 Lin Wood is not an "elector" in GA.
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/ uploads/2020PresidentialElectors.pdf
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:52 AM (CQ3Qb)

He voted. He is an elector. Everybody who votes is an elector.
You may want to sell your shares in Smartmatic and Dominion, bro.

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 11:06 AM (E9WGk)

416 Posted by: blaster at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (ZfRYq)

for some reason that made me lol

bless him

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 11:06 AM (nUhF0)

417 The Japanese did indeed try to hit the Russians early in the war. Zukov kicked their asses so hard, they didn't seriously try it again for the rest of the war.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Trump WON, buy guns at November 18, 2020 11:07 AM (ifmtJ)

418
A lot of people don't realize just how chaotic Japanese "politics" were during Tojo's rise - it had essentially descended into a turf war between Tokyo gangs, while the Japanese citizens more or less governed themselves, as they're wont to do.

The type of person who rises through the military to the top of that kind of system isn't a general as much as a mobster. It explains a lot about Tojo's thought processes.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 11:07 AM (BvLWD)

419 I assume that there *are*, in fact, snipers seen by some in this painting?

Vaguely recall having seen this painting (not in person).

Instantly thought "Pelelieu" when I saw the background. Nothing else quite like it in the Pacific war.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (OTzUX)

420 There's no electronic proof that someone sat down and reprogrammed the machines during the coordinated shutdown to make them show that Lin Wood voted.

Posted by: Moron Robbie's - Keep praying, keep fighting, keep your head up, and keep your flag flying at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (XSoJN)

421 Japan joined forces with Germany because evil attracts evil

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (nUhF0)

422 In a sense we reestablished Japan, and flipped them into a more capitalist "democracy". They retained much national heritage identity probably. Are they still as racist as ever? idk, maybe. To the extent they are "Americanized", has it helped them?


People visit Japan and love it ... clean, relatively crime free, and they don't let foreigners take over their country. But they are not having enough children, it seems, and we have been their protectorate. And still they went into incredible debt, the forerunners of MMA (which is economic communism, mostly) Their unity of culture shows the benefits of NOT claiming "diversity is our strength".

But I don't see them as the icon for individual liberty ... which I see in the American Heartland. My impression is Japan is centrally controlled, but they are fairly tidy and organized. Some have long commutes and work long hours ... I don't have a clear picture of life for the average Japanese working class.

Posted by: illiniwek at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (Cus5s)

423 Sorry that Anna Puma is missing this thread.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (Li1iO)

424 373 file not found

Posted by: runner at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (zr5Kq)

Take the space out. Or https://tinyurl.com/yxwm5l26

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (CQ3Qb)

(7) "Elector" means any person who shall possess all of the qualifications for voting now or hereafter prescribed by the laws of this state, including applicable charter provisions, and shall have registered in accordance with this chapter.

Per OCGA 21-2-2

Lin Wood filed as a citizen voter in Fulton County, as defined by statute - not as a "elector" selected to the electoral college.

Is there a problem with that, Brian?

Posted by: CZ = FNG To Remain Silent Because, FNG at November 18, 2020 11:08 AM (MkuC5)

425
would have fought to the death of every last man, woman and child to defend the home islands.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 18, 2020

Official War Department projections (based on experience) for the invasion put the casualties at around 1 million Allied and 5-10 million Japanese. Japan had a population of about 70 million at the time.

We'd have literally decimated the nation, if we went in with a conventional war, and killed the best part of a generation of American men.

There's not a shred of doubt in my mind that Truman made the right call.
Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est, Post-Apocalyptic Scourge of the Seas at November 18, 2020 10:56 AM (Msrhc)






Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with the idea that Japan was nuked mostly as vengeance. The bombing of Shanghai, the Rape of Nanking, 20MM dead Chinese, Unit 731, Pearl Harbor, the Bataan Death March, the Rape of Manila etc etc. They did shit in China that would make the most brutal Nazi SS concentration camp guard puke in disgust. Imperial Japan had it coming, and frankly with only two bombs they got off easy.

The ironic thing is, I'd trust Modern Japan as a strategic partner even more than the UK these days, considering how the fucking Limeys were found to be meddling in US domestic politics with the whole Russia Russia hoax and related issues.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (EGyGV)

426 More proof machines hooked up to internet band the placement of routers. Screenshot Thread.

https://mobile.twitter.com/We_Have_Risen/ status/1328797585256099849

I mean.... /1

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (E9WGk)


The stuff these guys are digging up is scary AF, the rabbit hole is deep. I get the feeling this guy has a long past, not a kid.

Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (8B6Ng)

427 Japanese leadership considered going north (attacking USSR), but it was never a leading idea. China and the resource zones to the south were the entire basis for the war (which started for them in '37 at the latest).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (OTzUX)

428 421 same reason Dems, Globalists, and Chynah ally

Posted by: vmom Trump Won! at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (nUhF0)

429 398 I wonder if "Black Friday" will be declared racist.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (YA914)
+++++++++++
No, it's fine. The "black" in Black Friday refers to ink color - as in the day that the retail complex achieves profitability. In this case, because "black" is *good,* it isn't racist and can stand.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (hYcqw)

Never underestimate the stupidity of the left.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/great-moments-in-journalism-is-black-friday-racist/

Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (BJKQV)

430 The MI flip flop by the GOP is sad but understandable. You're some mid level bureaucrat with 50M people ready to burn your house down after your name and address is splattered on Twitter. Hard to keep the course.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (22mNy)

431 Yikes, I just accidentally enlarged the photo and it's really scary when the soldier's face is lifesize.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (Li1iO)

432 The type of person who rises through the military to the top of that kind of system isn't a general as much as a mobster. It explains a lot about Tojo's thought processes.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 11:07 AM (BvLWD)


Unlike our OWN military system, where the top men (and lady Generals too!) are nothing but stalwart warriors, who got the top jobs for being true blue American patriots.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 18, 2020 11:10 AM (hku12)

433 412 Imagine what would have happened if, instead of attacking the USA, he'd attacked Russia while the Germans were still advancing.
Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est, Post-Apocalyptic Scourge of the Seas at November 18, 2020 11:03 AM (Msrhc)
---------------------------
At some time during December 41 Stalin got word that the Japanese would not attack in the east. This allowed him to move a million troops from the east to hammer the NAZIs at Stalingrad. I have never heard who was this individual/group in Japan that Stalin trusted. Its sort of a mystery.

Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (anrTJ)

434 398 I wonder if "Black Friday" will be declared racist.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (YA914)
+++++++++++
No, it's fine. The "black" in Black Friday refers to ink color - as in the day that the retail complex achieves profitability. In this case, because "black" is *good,* it isn't racist and can stand.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (hYcqw)

________


But you can't spell Friday without "Fairy" -- so cancel it now, homophobes!

Posted by: ShainS at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (EBwdC)

435 Back in the day, we had an intern from Palau, the country of which the island of Peleliu is a part. She was very impressed that I knew something about Palau which I knew about only because I'm a history buff and knew about this battle.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (+y/Ru)

436 409 Think of the shock seeing this painting after all the years of clean, smiling GIs in ads during the war.
Posted by: JTB at November 18, 2020 11:01 AM (7EjX1)

Yeah. Similar to the Brady/O'Sullivan pictures from the Civil War. You have this belief of honorable battle and a glorious death, then those get released. It must have been a punch to the face.

Posted by: Kris at November 18, 2020 11:05 AM (OyyDO)


Sometime in 1943, the War Department agreed to let photos of dead American Marines and soldiers be printed in papers and magazines, and used in newsreels. I've read that the first photos shown were a big shock-event Stateside, and contributed to a hardening of public opinion to have no mercy on the Japanese.

Posted by: Gref at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (AMIL/)

437 There is a new thread.

Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (Li1iO)

438 I wonder if "Black Friday" will be declared racist.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (YA914)
+++++++++++
No, it's fine. The "black" in Black Friday refers to ink color - as in the day that the retail complex achieves profitability. In this case, because "black" is *good,* it isn't racist and can stand.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at November 18, 2020 11:00 AM (hYcqw)

Never underestimate the stupidity of the left.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/great-moments-in-journalism-is-black-friday-racist/
Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (BJKQV)


Yep, they've been saying it's racist for years. The whole in the black, in the red mean nothing to them. Public education on display. "In spades" has also been in the crosshairs.

Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (8B6Ng)

439 430 The MI flip flop by the GOP is sad but understandable. You're some mid level bureaucrat with 50M people ready to burn your house down after your name and address is splattered on Twitter. Hard to keep the course.
Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (22mNy)

um... voted to certify under duress....

This could be an issue we see discussed further.

Posted by: CZ = FNG To Remain Silent Because, FNG at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (MkuC5)

440 They threaten your family, you break their fucking nose.



We're SOOOOOO bad at this, politically.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (Zz0t1)

To be fair one of them was a woman. She should have pulled out a gun instead.

Posted by: redbanzai the Southerner at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (946rW)

441 In my state the electors are listed on the ballot. Why would they be secret? How do they do it in your state?
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 10:59 AM (CQ3Qb)

In Michigan they are not listed. If you asked the average Michigander who the electors are , if they even know what an elector is, they wouldn't have a clue.

Posted by: Jen the original at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (7sidJ)

442 NOOD!

Donkey Kong.

Posted by: Sponge - Office of the President Elect at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (Zz0t1)

443 He voted. He is an elector. Everybody who votes is an elector.

You may want to sell your shares in Smartmatic and Dominion, bro.

Posted by: bat nationalist at November 18, 2020 11:06 AM (E9WGk)


That's exactly what I said. Dominion isn't publicly traded and I don't know anything about Smartmatic.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (CQ3Qb)

444
The problem with arguing the moral or military aims of the atomic bombings is that there isn't any real case to be made against them, and the crying doves who purported to be aghast at it couldn't care less about the Nips.

They had two aims:

1.) Justify Soviet nuclear intimidation by painting it as a defensive posture against naked American aggression.

2.) Use our shitbird peacenik fifth-columnists to pressure our government into constantly hobbling our nuclear advantage over the Soviets.

No amount of arguing could have convinced them, because they were disingenuous Commie tools.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (BvLWD)

445 430 Asshoes

Not only were the Wayne County Republicans doxxed and vilified, the mob went after their kids.

Posted by: EveR at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (DsGxB)

446 Yikes, I just accidentally enlarged the photo and it's really scary when the soldier's face is lifesize.
Posted by: m at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (Li1iO)


He certainly got the bloodshot eyes down.

Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 11:13 AM (8B6Ng)

447
At some time during December 41 Stalin got word that the Japanese would not attack in the east. This allowed him to move a million troops from the east to hammer the NAZIs at Stalingrad. I have never heard who was this individual/group in Japan that Stalin trusted. Its sort of a mystery.
Posted by: Puddin Head at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (anrTJ)






Richard Sorge, who was the Soviet Union's spy in Japan. One of the greatest spies in history, especially since virtually everything he gave the Soviets was good accurate intel. Almost too accurate, the Soviets often ignored the intel.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 18, 2020 11:14 AM (EGyGV)

448 430 The MI flip flop by the GOP is sad but understandable. You're some mid level bureaucrat with 50M people ready to burn your house down after your name and address is splattered on Twitter. Hard to keep the course.

Posted by: Asshoes at November 18, 2020 11:09 AM (22mNy)

__________


If only domestic terrorism was criminal -- and we had governmental agencies in place to punish those who engaged in it ... good and hard as a disincentive.

Posted by: ShainS at November 18, 2020 11:14 AM (EBwdC)

449 Maybe by 'Elector' he meant the rightful ruler of Hannover??

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 11:15 AM (UDapT)

450 Yep, they've been saying it's racist for years. The whole in the black, in the red mean nothing to them. Public education on display. "In spades" has also been in the crosshairs.
Posted by: clutch cargo at November 18, 2020 11:11 AM (8B6Ng)

I remember Rush talking about how "Picnic" was supposedly racist. Some race hustler had decided that it was short for "Pick a N*gger" - to hang while the white folk eat lunch and watch.

I did a search on this to find the original (which was decades ago) and see that people are still making the claim. Because they are uneducated and stupid.

Posted by: 29Victor at November 18, 2020 11:16 AM (BJKQV)

451 No amount of arguing could have convinced them, because they were disingenuous Commie tools.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at November 18, 2020 11:12 AM (BvLWD)

________


This comment could accurately be repeated in just about every post at this site these days and for the past several years ... and whatever remaining time before it's deplatformed.

Posted by: ShainS at November 18, 2020 11:18 AM (EBwdC)

452 know the Wayne County no-cert / cert was a little bit jarring, but it
could be part of a plan (yeah, I know). When I spoke to my state rep's
spokemouth last week, he said one of the strategies was to get a
recanvassing, audit and recount.

---------------------

My take is by letting them certify the results

---------
My take is they just got bullied into certifying. That doesn't mean Trump doesn't have a plan in a response. You plan for multiple events and make the most of it.
Posted by: SH at November 18, 2020 10:55 AM (sX1BW)



-----

I will not give up as long as Trump hasn't given up,but I am watching all Repubs closely. Any repub who is not actively fighting and helping Trump will never have my support. So far that leaves VERY few Repubs for me to support in the future.

Posted by: Chillin the most at November 18, 2020 11:18 AM (lonOK)

453 Mr Open Blogger, great pic post.

Posted by: humphreyrobot at November 18, 2020 11:19 AM (pB6Gt)

454 Japan faced an actual resource shortage (mostly oil) as it contemplated its war plans in 1941. There was a time element to their considerations.

The book "Japan - 1941" by Eri Hotta is a very good review of the process beginning the 30s that resulted in the war.

The most shocking part is how the irrational fixed ideas of a few, the overall failure of real leadership from anyone, and inside-political dynamics basically took the country to a suicidal war despite the fairly clear perception by most involved that it was likely a losing gamble.

Total contrast to the German case, where a focused charismatic leader built momentum with early bloodless successes, then took the country over the brink (with many still not that enthusiastic).

It's amazing. Tojo was implored by top Army officers in China to *not* get into a conflict with the US. Most top Army and Navy leaders did not believe a war with the US was a good option. There was a key juncture where the two rival services would not state their view clearly in the official meetings (whereas they did in private), because they wanted *the other service to go first, in foreclosing the option of war with the US*. Petty internal political dynamics literally played a key part in launching the country into a meat-grinder.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:21 AM (OTzUX)

455 The description you've given of the artwork is excellent except in one element. The scene is of the immediate aftermath of a fight. Which is why the Marine's back is turned to the fighting and the two others are discussing it somewhat calmly.

Posted by: TSgtCiz at November 18, 2020 11:23 AM (af5xa)

456 Puddin Head, it was Richard Sorge, as noted by ITC, and it was the (critical) Battle of Moscow for which Stalin brought in the Siberians and other units from the Far East. Stalingrad was a year later.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:25 AM (OTzUX)

457 Do we even have the full story on MI? Was there a commitment to an audit as part of the certification? From that board, or how about the legislature's audit demand (from last week)?

And I saw the board said only 72% of Wayne's votes could be recounted. This is absolutely to be expected - that is, it's a disaster and obviously the country's "results" cannot be trusted.

Still don't think I have any real understanding of where things stand there.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:28 AM (OTzUX)

458 Back in the day, we had an intern from Palau, the country of which the
island of Peleliu is a part. She was very impressed that I knew
something about Palau which I knew about only because I'm a history buff
and knew about this battle.
==================
My one-year Hong Kong housemate in college was similarly amazed when I asked him about Mount Butler in Hong Kong that I knew from our brigade sent there in pre-Pacific-War 1941, that fell on Christmas Day.

Posted by: andycanuck at November 18, 2020 11:29 AM (UDapT)

459 And just checking the Trumpentwatters, my confusulation is deepened, about MI. No idea what really happened (I mean results, critical details - the late 1920s Germany thing going on there, that I get).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 18, 2020 11:33 AM (OTzUX)

460 .

Posted by: DR.WTF at November 18, 2020 11:36 AM (AiZBA)

461 I'm currently reading "Twilight of the Gods" by Ian Toll, the third volume in his trilogy on the naval war in the Pacific. He writes of both this painting and another painting of a machined gunned, dying marine staggering up the beach on Peleliu. Very moving.
The true horror of the battle comes out best in Eugene Sledges memoir, "With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa."

Posted by: STW at November 18, 2020 12:10 PM (mYibQ)

462 Been there. 1/67 1 Mar Div Pendleton. 58 guys got orders to Nam. 3/68 only 29 or us up and around. 29 gone!

Picked up 3 scars n face and chest; but clearly still here!

Posted by: an ol exJarhead at November 18, 2020 12:16 PM (gY0et)

463 It's probably already been mentioned, but Sledge's WWII Marine memoir, WITH THE OLD BREED, has a searing, lengthy account of the battle of Peleliu. It was horrific.

That book is a classic, by the way.

Posted by: Beverly at November 18, 2020 03:19 PM (7N9W2)

464 Tom Lea also wrote several novels about the Texas southwest, with <i>The Wonderful Country</i> being the best. It's still in print.

And if you think "The 2000 Yard Stare" is jolting, you need to see one of his other Peleliu paintings, "The Price."

Here: https://tinyurl.com/y57m7rf5

More about Lea here: https://www.historynet.com/tom-lea-created-some-of-world-war-2s-most-powerful___s.htm

Posted by: PubliusII at November 18, 2020 03:59 PM (NCsa7)

465 That HistoryNet link is: https://tinyurl.com/y26g8l7s

Posted by: PubliusII at November 18, 2020 04:00 PM (NCsa7)

466 Nice work!

Posted by: GlobalTrvlr at November 18, 2020 04:55 PM (6qmBU)

467 My parents had a book put out by the Naval Institute, I think, that showcased the artwork of Tom Lea and other artists sent to record the naval war of WW2. 50 years after first looking at this painting, it still is haunting.

Peleliu was an incredibly costly, probably unnecessary campaign. MacArthur insisted on the operation (ironically codenamed "Stalemate II") as a protection for the right flank of his eventual Philippines campaign. As others have noted, what was predicted to be a 4-day op turned into a 2-month long bloodbath. The Japanese had by this point in the Pacific War adopted a nihilistic strategy of inflicting as many casualties as possible, and fighting to the last man.

God bless the Marines who endured this hell on earth.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at November 18, 2020 05:17 PM (ViC0A)

Posted by: jasonj at November 18, 2020 06:44 PM (qSQLQ)

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