Libertarians and Their Favorite Forms of Authoritarianism<br>[BUCK THROCKMORTON]

Libertarians and Their Favorite Forms of Authoritarianism
[BUCK THROCKMORTON]

Ace recently had some fun at the expense of self-proclaimed libertarians whose politics are clearly far-left, even though they choose not to identify as Democrats.

In my younger days I kind of considered myself a libertarian, until I realized that the most vocal libertarians tended to be either pot-heads or anarchists. Nowadays I don’t even know what “libertarian” means any more, nor do I understand why people identify as libertarian when their agenda is actively anti-liberty.

Libertarians actually seem to come in all sorts of flavors now – none of which have much to do with limited government. Here are some of the libertarian sub-groups and the poster child for each:

SOCIALIST LIBERTARIANS: Megan McArdle. McArdle’s form of principled libertarianism compels her to vote for a communist, Bernie Sanders, because she disapproves of Donald Trump using his 1st Amendment right to mock journalists.

POLICE STATE LIBERTARIANS: Rep. Justin Amash: Amash’s principled libertarianism believes that unelected officials in America’s intelligence agencies, including the CIA, have a duty to try to unseat politicians that the deep state doesn’t approve of. Further, he supports spy agencies trying to frame and entrap law-abiding associates of those politicians as punishment for politically consorting with the wrong people.

TAX AND SPEND LIBERTARIANS: William Weld: Weld is a big government tax and spend liberal. As Massachusetts governor he not only went on a major spending spree with taxpayer money, but he was also anti-2nd Amendment, and a big fan of eminent domain. Weld was the Libertarian Party’s Vice-Presidential candidate in 2016, which makes perfect sense in a world where libertarian doesn’t mean libertarian.

BAKE THAT CAKE LIBERTARIANS: Gary Johnson: While Johnson is certainly a classic libertarian when it comes to dope – the dude likes to toke – he supported the government’s right to shutter a bake shop for not creating a custom cake that violated the business owner’s Christian faith. All the same, as Libertarian presidential candidate in 2016, Gary Johnson was the top choice among people who had to lie about the fact that they were actually going to vote for Donald Trump.

CORPORATIST LIBERTARIANS – Koch Brothers: The Kochs’ brand of libertarianism believes the government’s role is to serve and protect the largest corporations, providing them with a steady supply of cheap foreign labor, and protecting those corporations from upstart competition.

TECH TYRANNY LIBERTARIANS – Silicon Valley Executives & NeverTrump: Libertarian tech company executives atone for their massive profits, unfathomable wealth, and monopoly market shares by de-platforming citizens for expressing the wrong opinion. The authoritarian dream of denying Americans their Bill of Rights protections is being realized by outsourcing tyranny to monster tech monopolies. NeverTrump “conservatarians” who want to elect Democrats and have Trump voters de-platformed from American society are well represented here.

It seems that the definition of libertarian has transitioned. It was once the identity of individuals with varied “leave me alone” priorities. Now it is simply a euphemism embraced by anti-freedom leftists who no longer want the stigma of identifying as a Democrat.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 03:23 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 hey!

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (Y4EXg)

2 wt45c

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (Hygy1)

3 omg

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (Hygy1)

4 not first

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (zZbCU)

5 So much Throckmorton

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (l4C/z)

6 I nooded

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:23 PM (Y4EXg)

7 Ace, put that time machine away. Now.

It's not funny.

- Ace's Mom.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at February 28, 2020 03:24 PM (u82oZ)

8 Willowed:

Well. Just came from my Costco in Puyallup.
Not crowded but a large number of the folks there definitely bulk buying.
Sadly my fav beer was already sold out.

Damn.
If I get sick I have no intention of dying sober.
Posted by: Diogenes

I didn't survive drinking everclear all thru high school to be taken out by a beer virus.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:24 PM (QFqpA)

9 It seems that the definition of libertarian has transitioned. It was once the identity of individuals with varied "leave me alone" priorities. Now it is simply a euphemism embraced by anti-freedom leftists who no longer want the stigma of identifying as a Democrat.

=========

Unpossible!

Being a Democrat is popular with all the kids!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:24 PM (zZbCU)

10 I actually have voted Libertarian.

I'm small government, pro sex and pro gun. So they appealed to me and I was pissed off at the way the GOP had been running candidates.

Plus I read a lot of Heinlein Sci fi and L. Neil Smith fantasies when I was young and impressionable.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (l4C/z)

11
Alternate post title:

Libertarians Come In Several Flavors, But They All Taste Like Totalitarians

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (Vmh67)

12 Libertarian is just another word that means, "You must do what I tell you to do."

Posted by: tbodie at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (V0CWC)

13 Zod is the only true libertarian.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (a/AB1)

14 Not top ten.
SPONGE!

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (ufFY8)

15 A type of Weasel, are they?

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:26 PM (90T4r)

16 "Libertarian" used to be synonymous with "minarchist". Not anymore.

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 03:26 PM (OUMaO)

17 10 I actually have voted Libertarian.

I'm small government, pro sex and pro gun. So they appealed to me and I was pissed off at the way the GOP had been running candidates.

Plus I read a lot of Heinlein Sci fi and L. Neil Smith fantasies when I was young and impressionable.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (l4C/z)

=========

I've never voted for Lindsay Graham.

I've only ever voted for his Libertarian opponents.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:26 PM (zZbCU)

18 Libertarians just cannot get their shit together.

They really are alike identity politics liberals, constantly splitting into smaller groups and unable to co-operate.

Democrats fall in line, it's why they win.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (l4C/z)

19 13 Zod is the only true libertarian.
Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:25 PM (a/AB1)

==========

Libertarianism = solipsism.

Discuss.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (zZbCU)

20 RE: Megan McArdle

I remember she was very good at reporting on Obamacare, but apparently not good enough to get people to stop it. That's what libertarians are good for, documenting our loss of liberties, but not much else.

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (zqs/f)

21 Tim Cook is Anderson and Rachel's love child

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (rpxSz)

22 I'm small government, pro sex and pro gun.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you.

---

I'm still amateur sex.

Womp womp.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (Y4EXg)

23 How about libertines? I can self-identify as a libertine, right?

Posted by: zeera BMGG - Books Make Great Gifts! at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (X+a7J)

24 18 Libertarians just cannot get their shit together.

They really are alike identity politics liberals, constantly splitting into smaller groups and unable to co-operate.

Democrats fall in line, it's why they win.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (l4C/z)

==========

Splitter!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (zZbCU)

25 Wow - you nailed it! I think when I was turned off of the official Libertarian label permanently was in the final stages of the 2016, when Bill Weld, who as you pointed out was the official VP nominee of the Libertarian Party, publicly stated that he knew his ticket wasn't going to win, and it would really be a whole lot better if his supporters would vote for Hillary instead.

oh yes he really did say that. That's when I said goodbye to him and his fellow travelers forever.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (Kpl3J)

26 24 18 Libertarians just cannot get their shit together.

They really are alike identity politics liberals, constantly splitting into smaller groups and unable to co-operate.

Democrats fall in line, it's why they win.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (l4C/z)

==========

Splitter!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (zZbCU)

I THOUGHT I smelled Libertarians in here....

*narrows eyes*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (l4C/z)

27
I turned my back on the GOP forever in early 2015.

Only one I've got use for is Trump.

And just in time for me to maybe, possibly consider registering in their weird little party, The Libertarians went full-retard.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (fUqBx)

28 Im a "Leave the Toilet Seat Up Libertarian" despite my occasional female company complaints.

Posted by: Horus Hearsay at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (DB16e)

29 25 Wow - you nailed it! I think when I was turned off of the official Libertarian label permanently was in the final stages of the 2016, when Bill Weld, who as you pointed out was the official VP nominee of the Libertarian Party, publicly stated that he knew his ticket wasn't going to win, and it would really be a whole lot better if his supporters would vote for Hillary instead.

oh yes he really did say that. That's when I said goodbye to him and his fellow travelers forever.
Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (Kpl3J)

===========

The Party has been a disaster, even on the local levels where I've lived, since I become politically aware in 2010.

But I've never quite shucked off the libertarian label.

Without really knowing how he defines it, I've always like the sound of Charles CW Cook's Conservatarian, though.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:29 PM (zZbCU)

30 Toyed with the Libertarian idea, but always found too many faults with them. Also, theory versus practice.

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:29 PM (90T4r)

31 IRL, libertarians want freedom for themselves, and maybe a few select friends, and regulation for everyone else.

Posted by: AMartel at February 28, 2020 03:29 PM (WWgnZ)

32 I think it's nice of Buck to give Ace a break to have some time with his shelves..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (so+oy)

33 Im a "Leave the Toilet Seat Up Libertarian" despite my occasional female company complaints.
Posted by: Horus Hearsay at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (DB16e)

-----

Hey... strong, modern, liberated women today dont need no mans help to put down the lid. They are perfectly capable on their own.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (8XRCm)

34 Nope. You're not taking the word away from me. I've been a (small L) libertarian forever and it's the best descriptor of my political views. You can call it classic liberal, if you want, but that's the same thing.

Every descriptor on your list is incompatible with libertarianism (police state, tax and spend, really?) so those phrases mean fuck all. There's no such thing as a tax and spend libertarian.

So no, also fuck no. I do not accept your terms of debate.

I'm for limited government and maximum individual liberty and the best word for that is libertarian.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (gd9RK)

35
I'm still amateur sex.

Womp womp.
Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (Y4EXg)

LOL.

I guess pro sex means endorsing legal prostitution. I don't know enough about Libertarians to know what their platform is?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (WI7YS)

36 The problem is that real Libertarians want to be left alone, and also DON'T want to be telling other people how to live.

Thus, the 'Leaders' of a Libertarian party, are not and cannot be, Libertarian.

Because they are busy telling other people how to live.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (NgKpN)

37 Funny how all these various people identify as anything other than an American who supports the Constitution as it was written.

Progressives don't do it, either. They identify as Progs and never cite anything in the Constitution unless a particular part of it can be used as a cudgel to beat the rest of us with. But support the Second Amendment? Never!

Democrats booed God three times back in '012 at their convention. They'll get whatever it is that's coming to them, but probably not in my lifetime. Which is sad since I really did want to gloat with wild abandon.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy's new band is called The Swinging Epsteins at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (HaL55)

38 As adopted by convention, July 2018

Libertarian Party - Immigration

3.4 Free Trade and Migration
We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders. However, we support control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a credible threat to security, health or property

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (QFqpA)

39 Good afternoon, Horde.

I consider myself a libertarian, but a very conservative one.

I really don't care what other people do in their personal lives as long as they don't expect me to agree with it, promote it or subsidize it.

I want limited government, but I believe the laws on the books should be enforced evenly.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (TdMsT)

40 32 I think it's nice of Buck to give Ace a break to have some time with his shelves..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (so+oy)

Buck is a giver and a surprisingly tender lover, so I hear.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (l4C/z)

41 33 Im a "Leave the Toilet Seat Up Libertarian" despite my occasional female company complaints.
Posted by: Horus Hearsay at February 28, 2020 03:28 PM (DB16e)

-----

Hey... strong, modern, liberated women today dont need no mans help to put down the lid. They are perfectly capable on their own.
Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (8XRCm)

So, weapon free, guys, weapon free!!

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (90T4r)

42 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (Zz0t1)

43 To be fair, 50% of the Koch Brothers are dead.

Posted by: Sponge at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (Zz0t1)

44 Eh, the only real form of libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism, and that's only slightly less ghastly than left anarchism.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (RD7QR)

45 In the primary I'm thinking about voting for the only candidate I actually know personally...

Jacob Hornberger
Libertarian for President
https://jacobforliberty.com/about-jacob-hornberger/

Of course I'll still be voting for President Trump in November when it matters.

Posted by: Matthew John at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (miVFj)

46 If Buck Throckmorton did a guilty sekrit gay playlist post, what would it include?

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (dfRN6)

47 I've never voted for Lindsay Graham.

-
Didja see that Hollyweird lefty Bette Midler queer smeared Lindsay?

https://bit.ly/2wetUua

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (+y/Ru)

48 It seems that the definition of libertarian has transitioned. It was once the identity of individuals with varied "leave me alone" priorities. Now it is simply a euphemism embraced by anti-freedom leftists who no longer want the stigma of identifying as a Democrat.

Yeah the party has completely lost its identity and meaning, its just a wing of the Democrats now that wants weed and legalized prostitution.

True libertarians think taxation is theft, that businesses should be able to deny service to anyone they want, and that government should not require you to need a license to do anything or pay to go anywhere.

Not many of those around, these days. None in the party, as far as I can tell.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:32 PM (KZzsI)

49
Too many Libertarians are only interested in being able to sort their stems and seeds out with the widow shades up.

Other than than that.... they pretty much dont care.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:32 PM (8XRCm)

50 IRL, libertarians want freedom for themselves, and maybe a few select friends, and regulation for everyone else.

Posted by: AMartel

They want to be free, but want to do it by having the state use its powers to its benefit. It's utterly unprincipled.

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 03:32 PM (OUMaO)

51 47 I've never voted for Lindsay Graham.

-
Didja see that Hollyweird lefty Bette Midler queer smeared Lindsay?

https://bit.ly/2wetUua
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (+y/Ru)

==========

She's a bitch.

I like Lindsay 3.0, but I'm still gonna find a way to vote against him.

He needs to either feel uncomfortable with his place in SC, or he needs to leave the Senate. That's the only way to get him to behave.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (zZbCU)

52 Libertarians just cannot get their shit together.

They really are alike identity politics liberals, constantly splitting into smaller groups and unable to co-operate.

Democrats fall in line, it's why they win.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:27 PM (l4C/z)
***************
Exactly and it's why we lose.
There are 2 choices, you either vote for the Republican or the Democrat. To not vote is a vote for the Democrat to vote for the Libertarian as a protest vote is a vote for the Democrat.

Posted by: redridinghood at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (wiXsO)

53 OT

2 new cases in US. Not sure of location.

Posted by: LOL at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (EsGqq)

54 Buck is a giver and a surprisingly tender lover, so I hear.

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (KZzsI)

55 Libertarianism = solipsism.

Discuss.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts

This moron gets it!

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (a/AB1)

56 I really don't care what other people do in their personal lives as long as they don't expect me to agree with it, promote it or subsidize it.

Posted by: Ladyl

----

Unlike Bootygig who wants to butt in and stuff it down our throats.

Wow - that didn't come out right.

Ugh. Again.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (Y4EXg)

57 55 Libertarianism = solipsism.

Discuss.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts

This moron gets it!

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (a/AB1)

==========

Of course you agree with me.

You are just a figment of my imagination.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (zZbCU)

58 37 Democrats booed God three times back in '012 at their convention. They'll get whatever it is that's coming to them, but probably not in my lifetime. Which is sad since I really did want to gloat with wild abandon.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy's new band is called The Swinging Epsteins at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (HaL55)

They wouldn't have dared had the Dems just used "Allah" instead.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (UnA8+)

59 39 Good afternoon, Horde.

I consider myself a libertarian, but a very conservative one.

I really don't care what other people do in their personal lives as long as they don't expect me to agree with it, promote it or subsidize it.

I want limited government, but I believe the laws on the books should be enforced evenly.
Posted by: Ladyl

I know we are going to get along famously.
My only caveat is when other folks' actions result in the murder of unborn children.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (d7Ww2)

60 I'm a libertarian in the "live and let live" sense, but dammit, if every day I don't become more and more rigidly conservative just in response to the left. Where once I could have said "let's agree to X weeks as an abortion cutoff - anything before is fine and anything after isn't. But, no, we need abortions even after birth and it's now a binary choice between always abortions or never abortions. And, of course we all have to choose a side. So I choose never abortions. And, I'm doing this on more and more issues where before I didn't care.

Posted by: Texas99 at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (4Hf9E)

61 Didja see that Hollyweird lefty Bette Midler queer smeared Lindsay?

https://bit.ly/2wetUua
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:31 PM (+y/Ru)

Nope. Because I give 2 sharts what that fat cuunt whore says.

Posted by: Sponge at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (Zz0t1)

62 54 Buck is a giver and a surprisingly tender lover, so I hear.

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (KZzsI)

I heard tell Buck is a bad Motherfu...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (l4C/z)

63 Thirst!

it's Fryday, and i just survived another VA visit.

i've definitely earned a beer or twelve.

Posted by: redc1c4 at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (5kQtt)

64 I guess pro sex means endorsing legal prostitution. I don't know enough about Libertarians to know what their platform is?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke

http://www. lp.org/platform/

Remove the space.

1.4 Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.

So yes. Cash works. $20. Same as in town.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (QFqpA)

65 What really kills me is when anyone advocates for actual anarchy - we've got it in the world today, you can have all the anarchy you want, if you really want it. Libya, much of Syria, most of sub-saharan Africa, most of Afghanistan. Go ahead, you'll just love living in anarchy.

I always remember the guy who was on the net who moved to Mexico because he hated US drug laws and other laws, and he would go on about how much easier it was to make money there and not have to live under the fear of US Law Enforcement. And then one day 2 guys knocked on his door, presumably from one of the cartels, and blasted him as soon as he opened the door, because I guess he had annoyed someone in the Cartel one way or another. And the police never even bothered to investigate, because it's Mexico, that's just how it goes there.

People don't realize how much they get to take for granted just by virtue of living in this country.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 03:35 PM (Kpl3J)

66 Pretty good piece, kudos.

Posted by: irright at February 28, 2020 03:35 PM (pMGkg)

67 Unlike Bootygig who wants to butt in and stuff it down our throats.

Wow - that didn't come out right.

Ugh. Again.
Posted by: Tonypete

...no, I think you got it about right there.

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 03:35 PM (OUMaO)

68 Libertarians just cannot get their shit together.

They should try some Imodium.

Posted by: Johnson & Johnson at February 28, 2020 03:35 PM (h5TKJ)

69 Classic Libertarians are now the Gran Torino party.

Posted by: Sponge at February 28, 2020 03:35 PM (Zz0t1)

70 What really kills me is when anyone advocates for actual anarchy - we've got it in the world today, you can have all the anarchy you want, if you really want it. Libya, much of Syria, most of sub-saharan Africa, most of Afghanistan. Go ahead, you'll just love living in anarchy.

------

Most of those that advocate for anarchy would be among the first to perish if actual anarchy ever came to pass.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:36 PM (8XRCm)

71

I know we are going to get along famously.
My only caveat is when other folks' actions result in the murder of unborn children.
Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (d7Ww2)

I'm absolutely pro-life.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:36 PM (TdMsT)

72 > You can call it classic liberal, if you want, but that's the same thing.

Sadly, the authoritarian communists have perverted the meaning of "liberal" forever, with the active collusion of the authoritarian "conservatives".

Both groups believe people are the property of the state. They just disagree on what duties the state should require its slaves to perform.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:36 PM (lbYzk)

73 College Libertarians: Wanted to be the president of the College Democrats, but they distrusted a white kid with clean clothes. Then wanted to be the president of Young Republicans, but they distrusted someone who wanted an office that bad. So then he became president of College Libertarians, because he wasn't so stoned that he missed the meeting.

Posted by: Ted K. at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (FJYfm)

74 39
I really don't care what other people do in their personal lives as long as they don't expect me to agree with it, promote it or subsidize it.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (TdMsT)

This!

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (Ez6QX)

75 57 55 Libertarianism = solipsism.

Discuss.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts

This moron gets it!

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (a/AB1)

Hmmmm...
I don't think so.
Libertarians are selfish and self-focused but they don't think they are the only reality. Unless they're high...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (l4C/z)

76 Also, I know Throckmorton is only his porn name but why is it in all caps?

Nobody does all caps.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (gd9RK)

77 I used to sometimes consider myself more libertarian than conservative just because some of the culture wars I thought were over the top. I'm an Evangelical Christian, but the sort of melding of 700 club style conservatism in the 80's era could be a bit oft putting. Not really interested in crusades like ending porn, etc. Smaller government was in the bedroom also, etc.

But now being a social conservative is just for basic common sense like there being only two genders.

Posted by: Blago at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (sjTfF)

78 2.10 Sex Work

The Libertarian Party supports the decriminalization of prostitution. We assert the right of consenting adults to provide sexual services to clients for compensation, and the right of clients to purchase sexual services from consenting sex workers.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (QFqpA)

79 76 Also, I know Throckmorton is only his porn name but why is it in all caps?

Nobody does all caps.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (gd9RK)

Buck is always angry. That's his secret.

Or...one of them...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (l4C/z)

80 What happened to the Dewey Decimal Libertarians who wear tight skirts and lacy bras three sizes too small, and sexy eye spectacles?

Posted by: Fritz at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (ATCV4)

81 A lot of so-called Libertarians I call Suicide Libertarians. Their devotion to Open Borders would spell the end of any type of limited government in the US.

Posted by: Michael K at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (MhsqC)

82
Nobody does all caps.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:37 PM (gd9RK)

------

Da fuq ???

Posted by: ACME HAT COMPANY at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (8XRCm)

83 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

*buffs nails*

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (GbPPJ)

84 > Libertarianism = solipsism.

> Discuss

Non-libertarianism = slavery.

Discuss.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (lbYzk)

85 83 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

*buffs nails*
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (GbPPJ)

===========

*pokes with stick*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (zZbCU)

86 Buck is always angry. That's his secret.

Or...one of them...

Or it's a Sarah Hoyt pen name

Posted by: JEM at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (8erNz)

87 OT

2 new cases in US. Not sure of location.
Posted by: LOL at February 28, 2020 03:33 PM (EsGqq)

CNN reported 2 new cases today from Diamond Cruise.

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (zqs/f)

88 You know, I read that headline fast as "Librarians and their favorite forms of authoritarianism".

Smh...

I'm clearly ready to go home and commence drinking.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (ejd/p)

89 They wouldn't have dared had the Dems just used "Allah" instead.

Ayup. The Dems have a congresscretin who defrauded and lied her way into orifice.

Have they even uttered one word of disdain in her direction, much less said anything derisive about the laws she broke? No. Because they absolutely refuse to give up one micro-particle of power.

A serious country would've arrested her, removed her from office and deported her. And spat after the mention of her name.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy's new band is called The Swinging Epsteins at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (HaL55)

90 Well part of it is the lock-step orthodoxy on much of the Democratic platform - 99% a democrat but don't think people should kill babies? Sorry, not welcome, go be a libertarian or something. 98% a democrat but think having a dong makes you a dude? Sorry, not welcome. 92% a democrat but understand that socialism as economic policy leads to suffering and misery? Sorry, not welcome.

That's why you get so many left of center branding themselves as libertarian, one heretical position and you're unpersoned.

Posted by: SB at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (rO6Rh)

91 I really don't care what other people do in their personal lives as long as they don't expect me to agree with it, promote it or subsidize it.

Posted by: Ladyl

Problem is, you will wind up paying for it.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (QFqpA)

92 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

----

*fistbump*

I wish I had a nickle for everytime Ive said this.

Posted by: ACME HAT COMPANY at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (8XRCm)

93 85
83 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

*buffs nails*

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (GbPPJ)

===========

*pokes with stick*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (zZbCU)

(( grabs popcorn and thinks this could be fun to watch ))

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (N39Ws)

94
*pokes with stick*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (zZbCU)

AVENGE ME, RAVAGE!

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (GbPPJ)

95 Libertarians can only exist in the context of a moral and legal climate that Christianity provided.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (KUaJL)

96
off hat ... sock .... hat.... whatever

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (8XRCm)

97 83 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

*buffs nails*
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (GbPPJ)

Yeah.

I'm honestly dreading this whole "A Time For Choosing" stuff on the horizon.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (UnA8+)

98 I am a libertarian libertarian. Leave me the fuck alone and I'll leave you the fuck alone.
A crime is committed when one party infringes the liberty of another. The government should exist to the extent that there is a judicial remedy to the encroachment.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (dNzKv)

99 If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot Oxford Shoe stamping on a human face - forever. ..

Posted by: Michael K at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (MhsqC)

100 Sadly, the authoritarian communists have perverted the meaning of "liberal" forever, with the active collusion of the authoritarian "conservatives".

Correct, which is why I won't give up the word libertarian.

I think Ace wasn't joking and Throckmorton is literally Hitler and Ace doesn't like us and is being mean. Friday afternoon is usually a great time at the HQ and he's letting some rando make shit up. "Totalitarian libertarian", right.

This guy's shit is all retarded.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (gd9RK)

101 Follow your dream, chase your bliss, be all you can be. You are special, you are unique, You be you. You create your own reality. What is the operative word? What is everything about?

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (90T4r)

102 97 Yeah.

I'm honestly dreading this whole "A Time For Choosing" stuff on the horizon.
Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:40 PM (UnA8+)

===========

"I WILL SAVE YOU FROM THE CHOOSING OF DEODORANTS IN THE NEW SOCIALIST FUTURE, COMRADE!"
-Bernie Sanders

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (zZbCU)

103 "CNN reported 2 new cases today from Diamond Cruise."

Virus of the Seas Cruise Line?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (tT0V4)

104 Bander, I still haz teh Coronas and you need to be nice to me.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (GbPPJ)

105 THIS IS A GLOBAL MELTDOWN CRISIS!!

Posted by: FOX BUSINESS at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (EsGqq)

106
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:30 PM (gd9RK)

------

Well, Buck didn't take it from you... the Libertarian Party did. When I realized I had nothing left in common with the people calling themselves Republicans, I dropped the label. Don't know what to call myself.

It annoyed my mom to no end what the word "liberal" turned into, but when it came to mean "big government authoritarian," she quit calling herself that.

Leftist marauders have a very neat trick of co-opting labels like this all over the political spectrum. It's not like it can be stopped, since they're holding all the levers of power in all political parties.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (fUqBx)

107 Wait, what? Libertarian aren't just conservative who are atheists and like to use street drugs?

Posted by: Random Thought Generator at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (EIz7d)

108 80 What happened to the Dewey Decimal Libertarians who wear tight skirts and lacy bras three sizes too small, and sexy eye spectacles?
Posted by: Fritz at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (ATCV4)

Dewey Decimal? Those libertarians are retired and have saggy tits, alas.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (RD7QR)

109 Is Buck Throckmorton related to Buck Nasty?

Posted by: the Butcher at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (DIosY)

110 81 A lot of so-called Libertarians I call Suicide Libertarians. Their devotion to Open Borders would spell the end of any type of limited government in the US.
Posted by: Michael K at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (MhsqC)

EU is about to get a taste of that, good and hard.

Turkey has opened their borders to anyone from Syria who wants to cross to the EU.

No questions asked for the next 72 hours.

So, Social Services? Possible Plague? meet open borders.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (NgKpN)

111 The number of people on here saying that they are libertarian fills me with confidence in my hypothesis that the roughly 3.3 million people who voted Libertarian in 2016 but not in 2012 are going to vote Republican in 2016.

That's the popular vote majority for Trump right there.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (zZbCU)

112 60 I'm a libertarian in the "live and let live" sense, but dammit, if every day I don't become more and more rigidly conservative just in response to the left. Where once I could have said "let's agree to X weeks as an abortion cutoff - anything before is fine and anything after isn't. But, no, we need abortions even after birth and it's now a binary choice between always abortions or never abortions. And, of course we all have to choose a side. So I choose never abortions. And, I'm doing this on more and more issues where before I didn't care.
Posted by: Texas99 at February 28, 2020 03:34 PM (4Hf9E)

Ugh I'm bad at writing. But I agree 100%, and I feel the same way. For instance, I have lots of gay people in my family, and as long as their partner treats them well, what business is it of mine? But then I see all the boundaries the left is constantly pushing and I just want to push back twice as hard.

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (Ez6QX)

113 ASSHOLE LIBERTARIANS: Bill Maher and his ilk.

I was an Objectivist and thought that libertarianism was a natural fit -- but Ayn Rand rejected that movement because, in general, they were subjectivists/moral relativists rather than believers in objective reality, epistemology, and morality.

Of course, the mutual hatred between her and Murray Rothbard was legendary.

Posted by: ShainS at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (u1sWf)

114 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

----

*fistbump*

I wish I had a nickle for everytime Ive said this.
Posted by: ACME HAT COMPANY

Problem is?
Out of 330 million people, someone won't.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (QFqpA)

115 Great post, ace.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (szhjU)

116 110 EU is about to get a taste of that, good and hard.

Turkey has opened their borders to anyone from Syria who wants to cross to the EU.

No questions asked for the next 72 hours.

So, Social Services? Possible Plague? meet open borders.
Posted by: Romeo13 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (NgKpN)

==========

There are people left in Syria?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (zZbCU)

117 The problem that I have identified with Libertarianism is that real, actual, human beings are uncooperative, irrational, assholes.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tickets Available for Bulwark - The Cuck Whisperer at The Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

118 102
"I WILL SAVE YOU FROM THE CHOOSING OF DEODORANTS IN THE NEW SOCIALIST FUTURE, COMRADE!"
-Bernie Sanders
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (zZbCU)

Please. All the wannabe Che Guevaras would have me first against the wall.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (UnA8+)

119 THIS IS A GLOBAL MELTDOWN CRISIS!!

-----

Jeebus.

I fell like Kevin Bacon in Animal House shouting ALL IS WELL!!!

ITS THE FUCKING FLU!!!

EXCEPT ITS GONNA KILL ALOT LESS PEOPLE THAN THE FLU DOES.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (8XRCm)

120 80 What happened to the Dewey Decimal Libertarians who wear tight skirts and lacy bras three sizes too small, and sexy eye spectacles?
Posted by: Fritz at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (ATCV4)

*Finishes two smooth ounces of Buffalo Trace*

I could hear more.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (l4C/z)

121 For the so-called "Wild West of the Internet" - a whole lot of posts just disappear that seem to be nothing more than critical argument.

Fender couldn't build a better reverb.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (TnxsG)

122 Libertarians are one reason Colorado went blue. Free weed free weed free weed and then When weed was legalized there was an avalanche of libs. Now they are busy telling kids that they must use zis pronoun or zi will see them in jail, and by the way better not complain about tranny story hour or zi is a hateful bigot.

Libertarians desire for weed and no frills immigration open the door for that totalitarian left to import third world leftists. They still think every republican is a bible thumper.

Posted by: Morticus Khan at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (gnRSu)

123 117 The problem that I have identified with Libertarianism is that real, actual, human beings are uncooperative, irrational, assholes.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tickets Available for Bulwark - The Cuck Whisperer at The Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

There's always going to be someone out there who wants your stuff, and he's willing to kill you to get it.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (UnA8+)

124 You know, I read that headline fast as "Librarians and their favorite forms of authoritarianism".

Smh...

I'm clearly ready to go home and commence drinking.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
-----------------------------------------

Real Men flashback?

Posted by: Erebus at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (EPXLU)

125 Why be a libertarian when flake is so much more concise?

Posted by: Regular joe at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (6/uwW)

126 I am a Leave Me The Fuck Alone Libertarian, which is the only kind that really counts.

*buffs nails*
Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:38 PM (GbPPJ)

This.

I want to live life on my own terms, within the bounds of the constitution.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:43 PM (TdMsT)

127 Problem is?
Out of 330 million people, someone won't.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (QFqpA)

----

I know.

THATS what the guns are for.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (8XRCm)

128 118 102
"I WILL SAVE YOU FROM THE CHOOSING OF DEODORANTS IN THE NEW SOCIALIST FUTURE, COMRADE!"
-Bernie Sanders
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:41 PM (zZbCU)

Please. All the wannabe Che Guevaras would have me first against the wall.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (UnA8+)

The wall isn't so bad when you think about it. There's a living wage, free healthcare, and according to the NYT, great sex!

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (qexAi)

129 CNN reported 2 new cases today from Diamond Cruise.

Posted by: Serious Cat at February 28, 2020 03:39 PM (zqs/f)

That would be good news.

Posted by: LOL at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (EsGqq)

130 Bander, I still haz teh Coronas and you need to be nice to me.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around.

I'm always nice to you my dear, my darling, my big bosomed bestie.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (gd9RK)

131 I'm honestly dreading this whole "A Time For Choosing" stuff on the horizon.

Posted by: Allie

Horizon, hell. It's tapping on the window to get your attention. Before long it won't be tapping.

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (OUMaO)

132 117 The problem that I have identified with Libertarianism is that real, actual, human beings are uncooperative, irrational, assholes.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tickets Available for Bulwark - The Cuck Whisperer at The Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

Everyone operates out of self interest, ultimately. Some people are sicker and more twisted than others.

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (90T4r)

133 I used to consider myself a libertarian, in the sense of "leave me alone and I'll grant you the same courtesy. Keep the state out of my life unless my rights have been violated. Minimize state action generally. Any state action should be the minimum required and at the most local reasonable level. The Constitution is essentially a liberal document. It should be respected. It should be interpreted widely in the sense of individual power and narrowly in the sense of state power."

I still basically believe that. I learned that big-L Libertarians do not. The Libertarian Party is a joke. That the Libertarians are almost all anti-libertarian statists is an ironic joke.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (I2dne)

134 EU is about to get a taste of that, good and hard.

Turkey has opened their borders to anyone from Syria who wants to cross to the EU.

No questions asked for the next 72 hours.

So, Social Services? Possible Plague? meet open borders.
========

Speaking of open borders, 9th Circus has ruled that Trump's stay-in-Mexico plan is no-go.

I guess it's another trip to the SC.

Fuckers.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (vg8iE)

135 But then I see all the boundaries the left is constantly pushing and I just want to push back twice as hard.
Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (Ez6QX)

Extremism pushes extremism.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (GbPPJ)

136 In hindsight, I would rather have voted for Republican-turned-Libertarian Gary Johnson instead of RINO-turned-squish Mitt Romney in 2012.

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (ch6++)

137 I am a libertarian libertarian. Leave me the fuck alone and I'll leave you the fuck alone.
A crime is committed when one party infringes the liberty of another. The government should exist to the extent that there is a judicial remedy to the encroachment.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy

So I can buy dynamite to remove tree stumps on my 100 acres? Somehow, I don't see a libertarian government going along with that.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (QFqpA)

138 "EXCEPT ITS GONNA KILL ALOT LESS PEOPLE THAN THE FLU DOES."

Baltimore City Government is in an uproar about the Coronavirus threat in the city.

Yet, more people will die in the city by criminals shooting them than any virus will.

But hey, we banned plastic shopping bags.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (tT0V4)

139
The wall isn't so bad when you think about it. There's a living wage, free healthcare, and according to the NYT, great sex!
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (qexAi)

Right before the bullet.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (TdMsT)

140 i refuse to be labeled as anything. i still want to be left the fuck alone.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (KP5rU)

141 A good example of how the "conservative" mentality often backfires.

Remember the "Defense of Marriage Act" and how every "conservative" was on-board for that, all of them apparently being too stupid to understand that this was conceding the definition "marriage" to the federal government.

Of course, they were not so happy when the federal government later redefined "marriage" in a way that they did not like.

LOLGF. You asked for it. You got it.

If someone had suggested to the founders that the FEDERAL MOTHERFUCKING GOVERNMENT should be involved in marriage, they would've looked at you like you had two heads.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (lbYzk)

142 140 i refuse to be labeled as anything. i still want to be left the fuck alone.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (KP5rU)

==========

I shall label you a curmudgeon.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (zZbCU)

143 I'm always nice to you my dear, my darling, my big bosomed bestie.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (gd9RK)

Yes. I can tell by how you claim I fall over whilst lying down.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (GbPPJ)

144 RickB why not? Who are you hurting? Buy some heroin and shoot up in your living room.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (dNzKv)

145 This coronavirus caused the cancellation of EVE Fanfest 2020.
I wasn't planning on going to Iceland, anyway.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (ufFY8)

146 142 140 i refuse to be labeled as anything. i still want to be left the fuck alone.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (KP5rU)

==========

I shall label you a curmudgeon.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (zZbCU)

And a poet

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (l4C/z)

147 140 i refuse to be labeled as anything. i still want to be left the fuck alone.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (KP5rU)

---

*fistbump*

Posted by: SMH at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (RU4sa)

148
There are people left in Syria?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (zZbCU)

7 MILLION displaced people.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (NgKpN)

149 > So I can buy dynamite to remove tree stumps on my 100 acres?

When I was a kid, a lot of local farmers had dynamite supplies for just that purpose.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (lbYzk)

150 Speaking of open borders, 9th Circus has ruled that Trump's stay-in-Mexico plan is no-go.

----

Sooooo..... the 9th can compel flocking MEXICO to do something???

WTACTUALF???

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (8XRCm)

151 I'm a conservative libertarian and no i have not thought it through for what it actually means so shaddup already.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (Orx/W)

152 The 700 Club's approach to public morality was flawed in its solutions, not its goals. What they advocated for would make for a safer, better, more orderly society, but they wanted to impose it from above by crushing government tyranny stomping a boot in everyone's face until they complied. That is not what Jesus taught.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (KZzsI)

153 Everyone operates out of self interest, ultimately. Some people are sicker and more twisted than others.

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (90T4r)

Welcome to the fallen nature of man, the angel with the fiery sword outside of the Garden should have told ya.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tickets Available for Bulwark - The Cuck Whisperer at The Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (hLRSq)

154 151 I'm a conservative libertarian and no i have not thought it through for what it actually means so shaddup already.
Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (Orx/

So am I.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (TdMsT)

155 My gosh, I just noticed my balls are the size of grapefruit.

Is this because of the Corona virus, or my Italian heritage?

Posted by: Regular joe at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (6/uwW)

156 Everything wrong with higher education in two tweets. Ted Cruz asked AOC to define chromosome to which she responded:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez@AOC

Sen. Cruz, while I understand you judge people's intelligence by the lowest income they've had, I hold awards from MIT Lincoln Lab and others for accomplishments in microbiology.

Secondly, I'm surprised you're asking about chromosomes given that you don't even believe in evolution.

Sincerely,
an Intel global finalist,
a fmr multi-year intern for Sen. Kennedy,
a cum laude dual major in Economics and International Relations,
a fmr Educational Director for national organization,
Who to you is "just a bartender,"
And also your colleague

-
AOC may have a spark of the divine but I defy anyone to find in her a spark of intelligence, nevertheless, she begins condescending ad hominem attacks then resorts to credentials to "prove" her intellegence. It's like The Wizard of Oz, the Scarecrow gets a piece of paper saying that he is smart and all is well. Higher education today sells you smugness and phony credentials at an inflated price and competence be damned!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (+y/Ru)

157 RickB why not? Who are you hurting? Buy some heroin and shoot up in your living room.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy

Why not? Because some asshole who lives on the 9th floor of an apartment building will whine that they aren't being treated "fairly" because they can't have dynamite.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (QFqpA)

158
So I can buy dynamite to remove tree stumps on my 100 acres?

------

Diesel and ammonium nitrate are alot cheaper.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (8XRCm)

159 What do they all have in common? Illegal Drugs, Prostitution, and Pornography.

That's what libertarians really care about.

Posted by: Ernst Schreiber at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (xmKbk)

160 Both socialism and libertarianism assume that human nature is good. Both require humans to be something other than they are.

One exalts the community (socialism/communism)-- do what the commune tells you while the other exalts the individual over community (libertarianism)--do as thou wilt.

They diverge on the social ills that are to be expected as a result repression versus anarchy.

Traditional liberals and to some extent conservatives are in the middle and our political system is constructed that way.

The social community and institutions coupled with the government's powers being check and divided provide the best way for ordered liberty to flourish. Ambition must be made to check ambition and so forth.

A true libertarian is unlikely compared to a leftist to directly try to subjugate a person. But, the libertarian opens the door by allowing people with ill intent to overwhelm order with predictable consequences.

The absence of social and governmental power to curtail individuals harming society and other individuals is rule of the strongest not libertarian utopia.

Balance in all things is better.

Posted by: whig at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (EUDB2)

161 151 I'm a conservative libertarian and no i have not thought it through for what it actually means so shaddup already.
Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:46 PM (Orx/W)

LOL. Well said, Bob.

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (Ez6QX)

162 "Buy some heroin and shoot up in your living room."

I've been considering this lately. Luckily I'm too scared of all the heroin dealers.

Posted by: Chris M at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (eAZVt)

163 I don't think "live and let live" is a viable political position anymore, if it ever was. There is virtually no one on the left who is willing to accept those terms on any social issue. The government is going to reflect someone's morality; the only question is whether it will be theirs or ours. In terms of the culture, that kind of libertarianism is the equivalent of pacifism or surrender.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (H5knJ)

164 So I can buy dynamite to remove tree stumps on my 100 acres? Somehow, I don't see a libertarian government going along with that.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (QFqpA)

Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Or is that something that was legal in AZ in the long, long ago, in the before times?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (l4C/z)

165 The problem that I have identified with Libertarianism is that real, actual, human beings are uncooperative, irrational, assholes.

That's the point of libertarianism. Free markets are an essential component of liberty.

You're an asshole. You have shit I want. I'll give you $10 for just as I would to any other nice person or asshole who has shit that I want and will sell it to me for $10.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (gd9RK)

166 As long as the K street money flow s in, call is whatever you want peasants.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (6wsTp)

167 155 My gosh, I just noticed my balls are the size of grapefruit.

Is this because of the Corona virus, or my Italian heritage?

Posted by: Regular joe

---

Uhhh, you have the mumps.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (Y4EXg)

168 Well done, Buck. That pretty much sums up all but the philosophical libertarians, who exist in theory but not in reality.

I used to call myself a conservatarian by which I meant fiscally conservative but socially liberal, inasmuch as government not interfering in the lives of its citizens means more freedom but also more responsibility.

Planned Parenthood? Why are we funding it? If you want less abortions stop paying for them. Moves the ball in the right direction at least. You don't have to be a moralist about the issue, but government shouldn't fund it either.

Wanna smoke your dope? Fine, but your addictions and issues aren't mine, and the consequences of them won't be paid by the public trough. Etc.

I guess I gave up on the whole idea when it became clear none of that'll ever happen and besides, a country has borders for a reason and there's a world beyond it we can't completely ignore.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)

169
I used to call myself a libertarian as well, loud and proud, although I never went along with the Libertarian Party. And I flirted with Ayn Rand's Objectivism as well. There were untenable things with the latter.

As I've gotten older, I've come to realize more of it as untenable.

But the current crop who use the label are just a bunch of lunatics and grifters, as Buck's post details.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (rCwaK)

170 The problem that I have identified with Libertarianism is that real,
actual, human beings are uncooperative, irrational, assholes.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Tickets Available for Bulwark - The Cuck
Whisperer at The Outrage Outlet! at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

As opposed to real, actual human beings playing for the other parties. Because they'd never try to push norms or definitions to serve their own asshole ambitions.

No - of course they wouldn't.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (TnxsG)

171

> Libertarianism = solipsism.

> Discuss

Non-libertarianism = slavery.

Discuss.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

We are not here to write Jonah's next article for him for free. Ghostwriting costs money.

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (SFOr6)

172 Hey, here's an easy test to spot a Libertarian:

They want to argue about what actually constitutes Libertarianism.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (l4C/z)

173 > Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Of course you can. It's a lot harder nowadays, but it's still possible.

As I mentioned earlier, it was a piece of cake when I was a kid. Few, if any formalities were involved.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (lbYzk)

174 155 My gosh, I just noticed my balls are the size of grapefruit.

Is this because of the Corona virus, or my Italian heritage?

Posted by: Regular joe at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (6/uwW)

Have you had surgery recently? (That happened to me after I had my gallbladder yanked out; the surgeon used a bunch of fluid to clean things out and, well, it had to go somewhere. Somewhere on my computer is a picture of the result.)

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (RD7QR)

175 When I was a kid, a lot of local farmers had dynamite supplies for just that purpose.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

I know. You can't anymore. Trust me. I've checked Tractor Supply.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (QFqpA)

176 ASSHOLE LIBERTARIANS: Bill Maher and his ilk.

I was an Objectivist and thought that libertarianism was a natural fit -- but Ayn Rand rejected that movement because, in general, they were subjectivists/moral relativists rather than believers in objective reality, epistemology, and morality.

Of course, the mutual hatred between her and Murray Rothbard was legendary.
Posted by: ShainS at February 28, 2020 03:42 PM (u1sWf)
************
Maher isn't a Libertarian & has been corrected, he thought because he wanted Drugs legalized that made him a Libertarian

Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (BqBId)

177 I've been considering this lately. Luckily I'm too scared of all the heroin dealers.
Posted by: Chris M at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (eAZVt)

That is because they make criminals out of heroin salesmen. Imagine going to Walgreens and buying Bayer heroin with the easy 1 step injector. You know you are getting 100mg, because it is a branded product, and you know it isn't cut with talc and fentanyl.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (dNzKv)

178 173 > Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Of course you can. It's a lot harder nowadays, but it's still possible.

As I mentioned earlier, it was a piece of cake when I was a kid. Few, if any formalities were involved.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (lbYzk)

===========

And then CBS local news started running stories about kids mainlining dynamite powder and the government just couldn't help itself.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (zZbCU)

179 Remember the "Defense of Marriage Act" and how every "conservative" was on-board for that, all of them apparently being too stupid to understand that this was conceding the definition "marriage" to the federal government.

Right, the problem is that the small government for too many people on the right tends to mean "I want you to have less power" not actual, you know, small government

You could do a list like this for social conservatives too (such as myself): the type who want to regulate what you can see on TV, the type who want to burn bad books, the type who think public schools should have prayers before class, etc.

Like the Libertarians what they seek isn't always bad but the methods are awful.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (KZzsI)

180
The Anarcho-capitalist wing of the libertarianism was another one I never supported even in my youthful flirting.

Posted by: publius, Rascally Rapscallion of a Poperin Pear at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (rCwaK)

181 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?

Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (Tnijr)

182 141 A good example of how the "conservative" mentality often backfires.

Remember the "Defense of Marriage Act" and how every "conservative" was on-board for that, all of them apparently being too stupid to understand that this was conceding the definition "marriage" to the federal government.

Of course, they were not so happy when the federal government later redefined "marriage" in a way that they did not like.

LOLGF. You asked for it. You got it.

If someone had suggested to the founders that the FEDERAL MOTHERFUCKING GOVERNMENT should be involved in marriage, they would've looked at you like you had two heads.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (lbYzk)

It had already been defined in a number of state constitutions and legislatures. I don't see how this would have impacted the legal reasoning regarding the "mysteries of the universe at all".

I think this comes from the false perspective that principles, precedents, and logical consistency matter in lawfare.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (qexAi)

183 I find I get nasty discussing libertarianism. So I will identify as an anarchocapitlist with Austrian leanings. And a JacksonIan approach to government.

I do find it odd how so many decide to dog pile libertarian ideals. I am told it is impossible to have free self directed individuals who wish to be more than just a point on the spectrum between citizen and slave And i am required to support my controlling authority lest i loose my position on that spectrum.

I am trying figure out how the second makes me free and the first makes me a crank who needs to be jeered into embarrassed silence.

I wI'll state that if you judge me by the LP party, it is like you are judging Christians thought via the tenets of Jim Jones People's Church.

Posted by: Sweeny Todd at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (x9tsA)

184 My gosh, I just noticed my balls are the size of grapefruit.

Mine are the size of ... a tangerine.

Posted by: Alfred the Butler at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (h5TKJ)

185 176 Maher isn't a Libertarian & has been corrected, he thought because he wanted Drugs legalized that made him a Libertarian
Posted by: Ghost Of Qassem Soleimani at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (BqBId)

===========

Breitbart called him out on that when he guested on the show.

"Shouldn't a libertarian believe in libertarian things?"
-paraphrase

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (zZbCU)

186 Mine are the size of ... a tangerine.
Posted by: Alfred the Butler at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (h5TKJ)
++++++++++++
Just one?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 03:51 PM (I2dne)

187
Baltimore City Government is in an uproar about the Coronavirus threat in the city.

Yet, more people will die in the city by criminals shooting them than any virus will.

But hey, we banned plastic shopping bags.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (tT0V4)

Can't they just herd corona patients into the bad neighborhoods with a sign on their backs "I have corona". Hilarity ensues. Sounds like it might work itself out.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:51 PM (Orx/W)

188 Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Of course you can. It's a lot harder nowadays, but it's still possible.

As I mentioned earlier, it was a piece of cake when I was a kid. Few, if any formalities were involved.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

A lot harder? Try next to impossible. Good luck getting a license.
That's why farmers went to Amfo.
Thanks for nothing Timothy McVeigh.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:51 PM (QFqpA)

189 Just went have Tex max

ordered a Blatz

but pretty sure the subbed a Corona

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 03:51 PM (rpxSz)

190 Back when I first had anything to do with Libertarians, it was right after 9/11. They were all "truthers", and I got a lot of contempt for not believing their wild theories about CIA plots or absence of Jewish employees, or not having just a few questions about the official account of the other surrounding buildings that were damaged in the attack. Got called a badge-licking fascist quite a few times.

Though I don't keep in touch with any of those assholes any more, I can see how they could have gone antifa. Not a very far journey.

Posted by: A Bucket of Hot Diarrhea at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (BrfST)

191 175 Rodrigo,
Tannerite is close enough. Don't abuse it or it will get banned too.

Posted by: whig at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (EUDB2)

192 Speaking of legally buying stuff...

https://youtu.be/1jgpPNqzH80

Don't know about the LEOs getting these, but this would have been a wet dream in my Army days.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (W+kMI)

193 I told people I was voting for Jill Stein.

Posted by: Joe Biden at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (OHZm8)

194 hiya

Posted by: JT at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (arJlL)

195 This coronavirus caused the cancellation of EVE Fanfest 2020.
I wasn't planning on going to Iceland, anyway.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

Wasn't that being held in San Diego this year?

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (OUMaO)

196
Anyone else notice Amy Klobberchar shows a lot of knee?

She has a most un-attractive face and body.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (Vmh67)

197 That's why farmers went to Amfo.
Thanks for nothing Timothy McVeigh.
Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:51 PM (QFqpA)

----

You can still buy black powder tho.....

or

so Im told.

Posted by: fixerupper at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (8XRCm)

198 193 I told people I was voting for Jill Stein.
Posted by: Joe Biden at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (OHZm

=========

Thought she was your wife, huh?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (zZbCU)

199 Libertarian goals and ideals suffer more from sinful human nature than other movements (except Communism) because in order for it to work people have to all be decent, trustworthy, honorable, and hard-working. Like Ayn Rand's ideal world where everyone is virtuous, healthy, and adult and it works great!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (KZzsI)

200 Libertarianism to me meant just leave me the fuck alone. So I was one. Now I have no idea what it means so I am not one.

Posted by: Hotgas VIP Member at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (6wsTp)

201 Wanna smoke your dope? Fine, but your addictions and issues aren't mine, and the consequences of them won't be paid by the public trough. Etc.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)

Name one country where this is the case. Can't live in the world of theory.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (qexAi)

202 Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

Yes. With the proper permits and licenses.
Good luck being approved.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (QFqpA)

203 > It had already been defined in a number of state constitutions and legislatures.

That was up to the states, as the Tenth Amendment explicitly specifies.

I don't care how many emanations, penumbras, or auras you invent, the Constitution of the United States simply does not give the federal government the power to regulate marriage.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (lbYzk)

204

The real problem with libertarianism is the blank-slate philosophy. We can't just have a "leave me the fuck alone" society once the welfare state is in place. We all know this, but people who are libertarian after age 30 remain willfully blind to it. Just like the open borders garbage: the "free flow of labor" doesn't work when it's more like the "free flow of charity cases."

Also, much like communism, we are not starting out with cogs, but with people. Libertarianism views people as utterly rational beings, which itself is the highest irrationality.

It is really any wonder that self-proclaimed "libertarians" are so woefully hypocritical or contradictory?

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (SFOr6)

205 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?
Posted by: freaked

---

A deplorable?

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (Y4EXg)

206 ...a fmr multi-year intern for Sen. Kennedy,
...
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (+y/Ru)

As an intern for Kennedy, she didn't make sandwiches, she *was* the sandwich.

Posted by: DR.WTF at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (aS1PU)

207 Everyone operates out of self interest, ultimately. Some people are sicker and more twisted than others.

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 03:44 PM (90T4r)

The thing is the Founders understood that and tried to find a way to make that work for society/government instead of against it. The other thing they tried to do was severely limit both the government's power, as well as it's ability to gather more power through taxation.

Since the permanent income tax was passed and the Civil War changes, the government has amassed more and more power. These days we simply want them to not use it instead of actually do the dirty work of taking it away from them.

However, as long as the government/judges/Google has that power, there will always be people who want to use it. They cannot help themselves. It is in their nature.

I fear we are merely rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic- even with the good things Trump has done as long as we leave in place the machinery that allows the government to retain and amass power.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (XyVor)

208 as to the Libertarian ideas on Prostitution - I think that as a society, we dealt with the issue better in the 19th century than we do today. It wasn't expressly legal, but it was allowed, and it was limited and restricted to certain areas which kept it from spilling out into the better parts of town. Banning it sure hasn't worked, we've got as much or more prostitution now, when it is supposedly "illegal", than ever before. So allow it but keep an eye on it and and prevent the most destructive abuses, like the trafficking of young women from third world countries, from happening.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (Kpl3J)

209 heh.

I just voted for Biden in the primaries here in WA State.

I'm feeling pretty darn good about it.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (d7Ww2)

210 Also, where the fuck is BUCK THROCKMORTON? He just drops these turds and doesn't defend his arguments in the comments.

The only Agent Provacateur I like is the ad that Kylie Minogue did for them. This one just insults the audience and fucks off.

I do not like Buck Throckmorton
I do not like him, Cuck Cock Horton.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (gd9RK)

211 Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)
^^^^^
This!

I may lurk most of the time, but this whole progressive philosophy creep into the "Leave me the F&*k alone" it is/was in my mind is irritatiting, moreso lately. Nobody wants to push the responsibility of the consequences onto the party that committed the offence, alas we have a non-viable party.

Posted by: SkinnerVic at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (nbwH3)

212 Hmmmm...
I don't think so.
Libertarians are selfish and self-focused but they don't think they are the only reality. Unless they're high...
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you.

My esteemed and wise grey box friend I will strongly disagree with you. Selfish and self-focused? Every man, woman and child, with only one exception, who has ever walked the face of this earth possesses that nature. It is encoded on our genome. From my perspective, words are of little value. A person's actions define their true beliefs. As for labels the only ones I care for are Christian, American, husband, father and friend.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (a/AB1)

213 179 Right, the problem is that the small government for too many people on the right tends to mean "I want you to have less power" not actual, you know, small government

You could do a list like this for social conservatives too (such as myself): the type who want to regulate what you can see on TV, the type who want to burn bad books, the type who think public schools should have prayers before class, etc.

Like the Libertarians what they seek isn't always bad but the methods are awful.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (KZzsI)

The issue is that the Lefty SJWs getting all Boot-Stompy makes the So-Cons want to be all Boot-Stompy too.

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (UnA8+)

214 So I can buy dynamite to remove tree stumps on my 100 acres? Somehow, I don't see a libertarian government going along with that.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:45 PM (QFqpA)

You live in the 100 Acre Woods?

That makes you rickb223 the Pooh.

And Pooh Bears are not allowed to have dynamite!

It's the law.

Go look for hunny or something.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (z0XD8)

215 181
What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?

Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (Tnijr)

Nazi?

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (Orx/W)

216 > That's why farmers went to Amfo.
> Thanks for nothing Timothy McVeigh.

Okay, I'm confused. Didn't McVeigh actually use ANFO, not dynamite?

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (lbYzk)

217
I dimly recall a Libertarian presidential candidate appearing on stage naked, and apparently high. Was that 2016?

I recall it dimly because I don't pay much attention to those people.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (k7VAT)

218 Bill Weld: drunk, high, or both?

Posted by: Pete in Texas at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (5eToK)

219 Everyone operates out of self interest, ultimately

Everyone has mixed motives, nobody does anything, ever, for just one reason. One tends to overshadow the other reasons, and as sinful human beings self interest is usually dominant, but there's always other stuff.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (KZzsI)

220 We can't just have a "leave me the fuck alone" society once the welfare state is in place.

That is half the problem with libertarians. "I can't vote for trump because he won't institute 100% libertarianism immediately upon entering office. Therefore we have to vote for sanders"

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (dNzKv)

221 205 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?
Posted by: freaked

A Confederate.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (Kpl3J)

222 It had already been defined in a number of state
constitutions and legislatures. I don't see how this would have impacted
the legal reasoning regarding the "mysteries of the universe at all".

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (qexAi)

Yeah - but people in State XYZ can't stand how people in State ABC might say 16 is ok instead of 18. The same way they can't stand how State XYZ might limit a gun magazine to 8 rounds instead of 20. Or how Colorado voted for the sticky green. Call me when Colorado sends raiders out making Good God Fearing Conservative Christians take a toke.

The notion of Incorporation killed this republic as much as anything. It wasn't always like that. The original ten articles only applied to the Fed at first.

But the Anti-Federalists argued exactly this point - that those ten articles were a waste of paper. They, it turns out, were right.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (TnxsG)

223 Racist and/or a Nazi. Plus homophobic, transphobic, and sexist.

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (n3MYL)

224
Buck Throckmorton once killed a man for snoring.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (Vmh67)

225 Okay, I'm confused. Didn't McVeigh actually use ANFO, not dynamite?

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

Yes he did. Buy over a certain amount and have a meet & greet the ATF.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (QFqpA)

226

I just voted for Biden in the primaries here in WA State.

I'm feeling pretty darn good about it.
Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (d7Ww2)

LOL!

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (TdMsT)

227 Dammit, copy/paste fail again. That was in response to this:

181 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?
Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (Tnijr)

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 03:56 PM (n3MYL)

228 217
I dimly recall a Libertarian presidential candidate appearing on stage naked, and apparently high. Was that 2016?

I recall it dimly because I don't pay much attention to those people.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (k7VAT)

=========

Yes, that was 2016.

Shoulda gone with him. Less embarrassing than Gary Johnson.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:56 PM (zZbCU)

229 196

Anyone else notice Amy Klobberchar shows a lot of knee?

She has a most un-attractive face and body.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (Vmh67)

She is a real life Dolores Umbridge.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 28, 2020 03:56 PM (ufFY8)

230 216 > That's why farmers went to Amfo.
> Thanks for nothing Timothy McVeigh.

Okay, I'm confused. Didn't McVeigh actually use ANFO, not dynamite?

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

---

The rental truck was just as guilty as the explosive yet there were no calls to pass common sense rental truck control.

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 03:56 PM (Y4EXg)

231 The issue is that the Lefty SJWs getting all Boot-Stompy makes the So-Cons want to be all Boot-Stompy too.

Sure, a lot of it is defensive, but old Blue Laws and Dry Counties and stuff predate the woke modern lefty. The tendency to want to have absolute power to MAKE things just the way you think they ought to be lurks in almost all our hearts. Some, like Doomberg, show it more than others.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:56 PM (KZzsI)

232 229 196

Anyone else notice Amy Klobberchar shows a lot of knee?

She has a most un-attractive face and body.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (Vmh67)

She is a real life Dolores Umbridge.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

monitor meet coffee

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (d7Ww2)

233 Don't blame me, I voted for Harry Browne.

Posted by: Chris W at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (Y9uNK)

234 Libertarian as a political movement will always fail because it lacks a moral basis

What is their argument against slavery (indentured servitude), abortion?

Thing is, there are wrongs that harm society for which their philosophy cannot address within the framework of the justification for their other positions, e.g. drug legalization.

Posted by: RoyalOil, Vicroy Canadian Territories at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (vPKfA)

235

What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?
Posted by: freaked

Frank Meyer

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (SFOr6)

236 The real problem with libertarianism is the blank-slate philosophy. We can't just have a "leave me the fuck alone" society once the welfare state is in place. We all know this, but people who are libertarian after age 30 remain willfully blind to it. Just like the open borders garbage: the "free flow of labor" doesn't work when it's more like the "free flow of charity cases."
Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (SFOr6)
+++++++++++
People like to point back and mega-immigration periods in US history (like the Irish influx, the Ellis Island system for Europeans generally, etc.) and talk about how it was fine and we shouldn't be worried about immigration.

It was disruptive but it was also generally okay. But what was different then?
- No welfare state
- Aggressive Americanization
- Little Balkanization outside of things like "Little Kiev" and "Chinatown" and the like.

Now we have an enormous and crippling welfare state, the woke folk/diversity crown refuses anything approaching systematic Americanization (not even English-only policies for the government) and the same people promote cloistered ethnic enclaves and "sensitivity" to their backward barbarism at the expense of the dominant culture.

They are not the same thing, and it is why large-scale immigration has become extremely dangerous.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (I2dne)

237 217

I dimly recall a Libertarian presidential candidate appearing on stage naked, and apparently high. Was that 2016?

I recall it dimly because I don't pay much attention to those people.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (k7VAT)

Yeah, now thats what i think about when I hear Libertarian. Hey, not my fault.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (Orx/W)

238 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?

Posted by: freaked

Constitutionalist. Aka, me.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (QFqpA)

239 Next on Okra, Authoritarians and the Libertarians Who Love Love Them.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (+y/Ru)

240 Buck Throckmorton once killed a man for snoring.

There we go. I'm going to spend the rest of this thread insulting Throckmorton.

FACT: Throckmorton's dog doesn't like him.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (gd9RK)

241 She is a real life Dolores Umbridge.

There was a judge in Wisconsin who looked almost exactly like Umbridge, and acted the same way. She was responsible for a lot of the abuse of power and crazy legal crap the left was pulling in that state trying to destroy Walker.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (KZzsI)

242 224
Buck Throckmorton once killed a man for snoring.
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (Vmh67)

Buck Throckmorton's so mean, he stuffed a rattler down a man's drawers just for fun.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (RD7QR)

243 That is because they make criminals out of heroin salesmen. Imagine going to Walgreens and buying Bayer heroin with the easy 1 step injector. You know you are getting 100mg, because it is a branded product, and you know it isn't cut with talc and fentanyl.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (dNzKv)

Now do methamphetamine.

Most illicit drugs SHOULD be illegal, because the consequences of their use are suffered by society in general. See, e.g., the burgeoning vagrancy problem.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (auq4b)

244 She is a real life Dolores Umbridge.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

monitor meet coffee

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (d7Ww2)

You can never, ever unsee that in your mind now, nurse.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (ufFY8)

245 Thought she was your wife, huh?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 03:52 PM (zZbCU)

I was wondering what the hell you were talking about

Posted by: ... at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (OHZm8)

246 > Libertarianism = solipsism.

> Discuss

Non-libertarianism = slavery.

Discuss.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

You can't avoid slavery. Either you're a slave to God or a sufficiently robust moral philosophy, or you're a slave to whatever passion urges you most strongly at that point in time.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (KUaJL)

247 212 Hmmmm...
I don't think so.
Libertarians are selfish and self-focused but they don't think they are the only reality. Unless they're high...
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you.

My esteemed and wise grey box friend I will strongly disagree with you. Selfish and self-focused? Every man, woman and child, with only one exception, who has ever walked the face of this earth possesses that nature. It is encoded on our genome. From my perspective, words are of little value. A person's actions define their true beliefs. As for labels the only ones I care for are Christian, American, husband, father and friend.
Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (a/AB1)

I'll continue to play the Devil's Advocate here....but purely for the hotties.

True, everyone except saints is selfish. But most people except Libertarians and Anarchists believe in co-operation, submission to lawful authority and altruism as a good. The good of society is less important than their own needs/kinks/addictions.

It's that inability to co-operate that dooms them as a party.

But I don't think Libertarians are sophists. They aren't crazy.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (l4C/z)

248 Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:50 PM (qexAi)

Whole problem stemmed from the Court's who can no longer define what a Right is.

The Founders had a clear definition they followed, but it was muddied by creating a RIGHT to vote after the Civil War.

By doing so, they redefined a legal power, or authority, into a Right.

Which is how we suddenly get to the place where you have a RIGHT to a License? Huh? a RIGHT to something created by the Government of Man?

Or how we get to 'Healthcare' being a RIGHT, which means everyone else has to pay for your healthcare.

Posted by: Romeo13 at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (NgKpN)

249 and that's a bottom

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (rpxSz)

250 203 > It had already been defined in a number of state constitutions and legislatures.

That was up to the states, as the Tenth Amendment explicitly specifies.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (lbYzk)

Hah. So based on this you think the Supreme Court would not have redfined marriage via a challenge to any of the state laws?

Our adversaries do not need precedent or concession of abstract theoretical limitations on power. Wilson didn't. FDR didn't. The Supreme Court does not.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (qexAi)

251 159 What do they all have in common? Illegal Drugs, Prostitution, and Pornography.

That's what libertarians really care about.
Posted by: Ernst Schreiber at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (xmKbk)

Decriminalize victimless crimes. You traffic humans? Prosecute that. You kill someone whole intoxicated? Prosecute that. Vice crimes that criminalize behaviors people just don't like is what libertarians are against.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (dNzKv)

252
Buck Throckmorton drives a Ford Probe.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (Vmh67)

253 Buck Throckmorton once killed a man for snoring.

...and another for leaning on his car.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (Orx/W)

254 242 224
Buck Throckmorton once killed a man for snoring.
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 03:55 PM (Vmh67)

Buck Throckmorton's so mean, he stuffed a rattler down a man's drawers just for fun.
Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (RD7QR)

Buck Throckmorton is a friend to the working man.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (l4C/z)

255 What is their argument against slavery (indentured servitude), abortion?

Jesus Fucking Christ on a Pogo Stick you have No Fucking Idea what libertarian means. Slavery is the way way opposite. The all the way on the other side of the galaxy and then ten steps further opposite.

You asshats think libertarian means stuff you don't like.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (gd9RK)

256 What do you call someone who wants to follow the Constitution as it was laid down by the founders?

Constitution party.

But be aware that a very, very strict reading of the constitution is excessively isolationist. The founding fathers probably would have considered paying taxes to permanently house soldiers a violation of the 3rd amendments and a big standing army a tyrannical atrocity.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (KZzsI)

257 Excellent summary of the different subtypes.

I'd also add "Fonzie Libertarians" to include Nick Gillespie.

If you read a Reason magazine from 1990 it's not even the same movement anymore.

I think they gave up on budgetary sanity because everyone else did and now it's all about pot and open borders, pretending that the welfare state needed to deal with the fallout of that doesn't exist.

Posted by: James OBrien at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (26jYA)

258 182, The reason that government got into marriage was because of property and custody rights in divorce cases. The old common law marriage was a similar imposition by judges to avoid the all too common attempt to claim a marriage never existed to gain advantage in court. Thus, states passed laws to prevent people from claiming this in court.

The pure libertarian would substitute contractual relations but you still have to have someone enforce the contract and deal with breaches of them.

The left would simply issue a dictate based on whatever the "community" thinks marriage is at any one time for the benefit of society and force people to comply if they did not like it.

Liberals and the conservatives would observe that families are the building blocks of society so an attempt should be made to lessen the risk to community and individuals from misconduct by individuals in that marriage and that experience, not some overarching principles should guide government solutions to the problem. They came up with marriage licenses issued by the state.

Which lasted until some individuals wanted to redefine marriage in Hawaii and then by the full faith and credit clause, impose that on other states. Thus, the DOMA was passed so that a decision in Hawaii would not apply to other states nor to the federal government. It was reactive to what the left was doing in that case, not pushing dreaded social conservatism.

Posted by: whig at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (EUDB2)

259 BUCK THROCKMORTON

So your dogs name was Buck when you lived on Throckmorton Drive. I am Tippy Grandview or Ferocious Arapaho.

Posted by: rhennigantx at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (JFO2v)

260 Buck Throckmorton thinks the 9mm is superior to the 45 ACP

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (l4C/z)

261 Ferocious Arapaho.
Posted by: rhennigantx at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (JFO2v)
++++++++++
Racist.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (I2dne)

262 255 What is their argument against slavery (indentured servitude), abortion?

Jesus Fucking Christ on a Pogo Stick you have No Fucking Idea what libertarian means. Slavery is the way way opposite. The all the way on the other side of the galaxy and then ten steps further opposite.

You asshats think libertarian means stuff you don't like.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (gd9RK)

===========

Yeah, slavery is pretty antithetical to every reading of libertarianism I've ever seen.

The whole, "Your rights end at my body" is kind of intrinsic to the ideology.

Unless you're using libertarianism as a cover for something else.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (zZbCU)

263 Hah. So based on this you think the Supreme Court would not have redfined marriage via a challenge to any of the state laws?

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (qexAi)

Before the end of the Civil War - they knew not to. Because they would have been ignored. And were, from time to time.

Wrong side won, as far as State Sovereignty was concerned.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (TnxsG)

264 Is there a "Leave me the Hell ALONE!" Party?

Yeah, thought not.

Posted by: JB1000 at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (Kf5r9)

265 subways has new carrot cake cookies. needs more chili.

Posted by: Anachronda at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (sGtp+)

266 the ad I'm getting on the front page right now is STOP RX DRUG ABUSE BREAK THE HEROIN CONNECTION

lol libertarian just a synonym for junkie

Posted by: vmom 2020 v20 at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (G546f)

267 BUCK THROCKMORTON once shot an elephant in his pajamas.

Posted by: rhennigantx at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (JFO2v)

268 All I know about Throckmorton

is it is one helluva place to hunt dove

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (rpxSz)

269 Leave me alone libertarian today means you have to defend free speech, property rights, civil liberties with forceful resistance and possibly firearms.

Which makes you a conservative.

Posted by: Josh Brolin's Blistered Taint at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (26jYA)

270 252
Buck Throckmorton drives a Ford Probe.
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (Vmh67)

I thought it was a Nissan Cube.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (TdMsT)

271 Ferocious Arapaho.

That's a pretty good name, actually

Libertarians tend to be very pro-abortion because they don't consider unborn humans to be, you know, human.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (KZzsI)

272 "But be aware that a very, very strict reading of the constitution is excessively isolationist."

I could live with that.

Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (Tnijr)

273 Buck Throckmorton does the Electric Glide

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (l4C/z)

274 244 She is a real life Dolores Umbridge.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

monitor meet coffee

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 03:57 PM (d7Ww2)

You can never, ever unsee that in your mind now, nurse.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

and the next debate will be all the more entertaining

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (d7Ww2)

275 You asshats think libertarian means stuff you don't like.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (gd9RK)

Asshat Bander!? Asshat!? Ass-hat!?

well ok.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (Orx/W)

276 However I would argue that real libertarianism should be violently opposed to abortion on the grounds of human rights and self-rule.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (KZzsI)

277 Libertarians tend to be very pro-abortion because they don't consider unborn humans to be, you know, human.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:02 PM (KZzsI)

The libertarians I know are pro life. Like me.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (TdMsT)

278 LOL, I'm getting emails from Acorns about how everyone needs to calm their tits about the stock market.

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (n3MYL)

279 I know. You can't anymore. Trust me. I've checked Tractor Supply.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 03:49 PM (QFqpA)
Kehoe, the Mad Bomber of Bath, ruined the army-surplus access for everyone.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (fxCK2)

280 Ah, once again the Great Libertarian Argument:

1) Libertarianism will go away instantly were pot ever to be legalized.

2) Libertarianism does provide for the continued organization of society or the safety and education of the young.

At best, it would be a one generation phenomenon.

But, more likely, it would just be a parasitic commune on the butt of a welfare state society.

In fact, you can live the libertarian life-style right here and now by going on welfare.

If you live in SF, you can shit on the sidewalks as well.

Heaven!

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (z0XD8)

281 I'd call the McArdle version a "Karen Libertarian", because the root of it is that a certain population of women completely hates men being aggressive, even though they themselves march up to a counter 7 times a day and demand to see the manager.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (ZGrMX)

282 Buck Throckmorton can't tell the difference between Whizzo margarine and a dead crab.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (dfRN6)

283 Fenelon, the doctrinal answer to prostitution is that laws push it into the shadows where abuse cannot be identified.

Prostitution laws do the really solve that problem, they just expand the pool of criminals without any real societal gain.

Posted by: Sweeny Todd at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (x9tsA)

284 Buck Throckmorton uses baby ducks for target practice...and then he gets MEAN.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (RD7QR)

285 You asshats think libertarian means stuff you don't like.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:00 PM (gd9RK)

Just like Buck Throckmorton.

Posted by: DR.WTF at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (aS1PU)

286

I thought Scion made the Cube?

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (Vmh67)

287

Okay, I'm confused. Didn't McVeigh actually use ANFO, not dynamite?

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 03:54 PM (lbYzk)

----

McVeigh and Nichols used 55 gallon drums filled with ANFO, with a bag of ammonium nitrate / nitromethane on top of the drums as a booster.

I believe dynamite in general has largely been replaced by various ammonium nitrate based products. There is a binary product called Kinestick . A sensitizing liquid is poured into a container of solid ammonium nitrate to activate it. There's also a family of AN gels called Tovex -- comes in long plastic tubes that look like sausage links..

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (k7VAT)

288 278
LOL, I'm getting emails from Acorns about how everyone needs to calm their tits about the stock market.

Posted by: Jordan61 at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (n3MYL)

Those Acorn commercials really, really annoy me.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (ufFY8)

289 Is Buck Throckmorton related to Buck Nasty?
Posted by: the Butcher

Nope, but he is Buck Naked incognito.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (a/AB1)

290 Buck Throckmorton killed a bear when he was only three

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (l4C/z)

291 Libertarians are the farthest RIGHT on the American political spectrum. We have to look left to see Conservatives. Democrats are way over to the left right next to Fascists. You silly NEO Cons that are half Progressive are the problem. Not Libewrtarians. America was founded on Libertarian principles. Libertarians dont all smoke Pot you silly Neo Con (Progressive Conservative). Stop reading Wikipedia for political misinformation.

Posted by: fisht at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (g5ddn)

292 290 Buck Throckmorton killed a bear when he was only three
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (l4C/z)

===========

I need to know his preferred hat.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (zZbCU)

293 263 Hah. So based on this you think the Supreme Court would not have redfined marriage via a challenge to any of the state laws?

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (qexAi)

Before the end of the Civil War - they knew not to. Because they would have been ignored. And were, from time to time.

Wrong side won, as far as State Sovereignty was concerned.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:01 PM (TnxsG)

So the fugitive slave law was an example of respect for state and individual sovereignty? Yeah, fake history. If the Confederacy cared so much about state rights they would've featured it as prominently in their declaration of causes as they did slavery.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (qexAi)

294 LOL, I'm getting emails from Acorns about how everyone needs to calm their tits about the stock market.
Posted by: Jordan61

---

My broker called this morning (I last spoke with her on Tuesday) and said "Shits still on sale. Want anything else?"

Posted by: Tonypete at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (Y4EXg)

295 You forgot Specto Libertarianism......

Leave me the fuck alone.

Posted by: SpectoVia at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (IbeKg)

296 Buck Throckmorton is the private dick who's a sex machine to all the chicks.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (l4C/z)

297

Constitution party.

*****
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

constitutionalist, maybe. But the "Constitution Party" tends toward the more whack-job end of the political spectrum, and one that frequently ignores the establishment clause of the First Amendment when it suits them.

Even as someone who is highly sympathetic to most faith-based arguments on a philosophical level, I would not want strict 6,500 year old earth creationism taught in public school.

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (SFOr6)

298 But I don't think Libertarians are sophists. They aren't crazy.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (l4C/z)

No, but they are intellectually immature. Because they try to fit their entire world view into a narrow, one size fits all doctrine on the basis of being intellectually consistent. Adults recognize that reality throws up ambiguous, gray areas that resist hard and fast rules. Instead, such areas require judgment on a case by case basis.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (auq4b)

299 and that's a bottom

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (rpxSz)

Barry O: Why is everyone looking at me?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (mpeBU)

300 I'm getting emails from Acorns about how everyone needs to calm their tits about the stock market.

My major freakout is figuring out when the bottom is, because there's gonna be some nice bargains.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (ZGrMX)

301 Buck Throckmorton stole my childhood.

Posted by: Greta Thunberg, meatball-scented Druid philosopher at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (vtcmf)

302
The Australian version of Buck Throckmorton drives the Australian version of the Isuzu Trooper, which is called the Jackaroo.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (Vmh67)

303 However I would argue that real libertarianism should be violently opposed to abortion on the grounds of human rights and self-rule.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:03 PM (KZzsI)
++++++++++++
This comes down to the fundamental basis in the abortion debate generally, and I suspect any given libertarian's position on it may well differ from other libertarians' position on it, and for the same reason.

Is the fetus a person? If yes, a libertarian *must* be opposed to abortion, as the mother's rights in the form of the ownership of her own person don't extend to taking another life. If no, a libertarian may support abortion as it involves the mother's ownership of her own person and no action that does not harm another person should be forbidden. If the fetus is *not* a person, there is no conflict.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (I2dne)

304 The libertarians I know are pro life. Like me.

And to me that's a consistent libertarian position. But I distinguish between libertarians (philosophical) and Libertarian (political party affiliation).

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (KZzsI)

305 286

I thought Scion made the Cube?
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (Vmh67)

Nissan made a Cube lookalike that looked like one of those "You Had One Job" pictures.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (RD7QR)

306 286

I thought Scion made the Cube?
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:04 PM (Vmh67)

Toyota, I think.

The stupidest looking cars ever made.

I apologize if I've offended anyone here...

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (TdMsT)

307 The question that Libertarians really hate is "where do you draw the line?". Because it rends their whole school of thought asunder.

When does my right to do something interfere with your right to have me not do it?

Can I just blare a siren up and down a quiet street all day and night long? It's my "right", isn't it? If not on the street, can I put one outside my house? Just a siren that screams at random intervals? Why not?

Posted by: ... at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (OHZm8)

308 While we're on the subject of misnomers, if conservatives were actually conservative they would resist this debasement of our language.

Leftists aren't liberal (in the original and international sense of the word): There's nothing about individual freedom and rights that they particularly like.

Leftists aren't progressive. They tend to hate real technological progress.

Leftists aren't liberatarian. Libertarian (at least as of 10 years ago) was what liberals called themselves because a bunch of communists had taken over the term.

If trends continue, in 30 years everyone will be decrying those backstabbing conservatives for being tyrannical communist bastards.

Posted by: MadRocketSci at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (+G8SK)

309 Buck Throckmorton killed a bear when he was only three
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (l4C/z)

===========

I need to know his preferred hat.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (zZbCU)

heh. I had a coonskin hat when I was a tyke. I lived in that thing.

Posted by: DR.WTF at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (aS1PU)

310 good day to buy

not as good as 2008 but not bad

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (rpxSz)

311 "Can't you already legally buy dynamite?

Or is that something that was legal in AZ in the long, long ago, in the before times?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 03:47 PM (l4C/z) "

That was in the before times.
Weathermen in the 60's fixed that.

Now, try to buy ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
That ahole who blew up OKC fixed that.

Meth has made many common solvents and cold pills watchlist items.

I could go on, every year the lists get longer.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (zlgJP)

312 Paul Krugman, who predicted economic doom because of Trump's election, tweets 'Dow 25,000!' and dropping due to 'Trumpvirus'

-
And yet I think he's an idiot asshole.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (+y/Ru)

313 251 Decriminalize victimless crimes. You traffic humans? Prosecute that. You kill someone whole intoxicated? Prosecute that. Vice crimes that criminalize behaviors people just don't like is what libertarians are against.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at February 28, 2020 03:59 PM (dNzKv)

I'm just so done with the concept of "what you owe to society".

Posted by: Allie at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (UnA8+)

314 Libertarian as a political movement will always fail because it lacks a moral basis

And a profound lack of understanding that actions have consequences.

There isn't a vice that libertarians don't want to decriminalize - and they don't have the vocabulary to even contemplate how an individual's personal gambling, drug, sex or other destructive habit splashes over on to others.

The sophomoric "A person has the right to swing the first as much as they like, but not in my face." does not calculate risk and error. That is, can I fire my handgun in the general direction of the libertarian, and its perfectly OK for as long as I miss?

Dittos with drug habits and gambling - like it has absolutely no effect on anyone else, and if it did ? Well, just get over it.

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (C+evo)

315 Guy is right and has an awesome name.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (vP0/o)

316 I used to like Penn Jillette quite a bit, and he was an outspoken libertarian. When he endorsed Hillary, or at least told people to vote for her against Trump, I lost a lot of respect.

Posted by: Grimaldi at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (mo7QJ)

317 What is their argument against slavery (indentured servitude), abortion?

Oh, nothing really, other than the fundamental tenant that no person has a right to another person's body.

My God.

That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this blog and I'm including MUMR.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (GbPPJ)

318
You're right; Nissan made the Cube.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (Vmh67)

319 317
That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read on this blog and I'm including MUMR.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:08 PM (GbPPJ)

==========

So, Prometheus...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (zZbCU)

320 292 290 Buck Throckmorton killed a bear when he was only three
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (l4C/z)

===========

I need to know his preferred hat.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:05 PM (zZbCU)

Buck Throckmorton has a long, flowing mane of golden hair. But when it must be restrained (for it cannot be tamed) he favors a trucker hat that says 'BEER' on it.

(and yes, props for getting my reference

)

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (l4C/z)

321 But I don't think Libertarians are sophists. They aren't crazy.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you.

I can't argue with someone who doesn't exist.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (a/AB1)

322 If no, a libertarian may support abortion as it involves the mother's ownership of her own person and no action that does not harm another person should be forbidden. If the fetus is *not* a person, there is no conflict.

The problem with this approach is that no human being alive can determine when this lump of tissue magically becomes a human person. Its certainly not upon exiting the mother. And with that kind of uncertainty and lack of trustworthy clarity, the philosophically consistent libertarian must err on the side of caution.

But none of us are truly philosophically consistent.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (KZzsI)

323 304 The libertarians I know are pro life. Like me.

And to me that's a consistent libertarian position. But I distinguish between libertarians (philosophical) and Libertarian (political party affiliation).
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (KZzsI)

That is a very good distinction. Thank you.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (TdMsT)

324 I thought Scion made the Cube?

Nissan made the Cube.

Like Nissan, though, Toyota (Scion) made a vehice that looked like it was constructed out of 8020, called the xB.

Posted by: spindrift at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (h5TKJ)

325 Cube (name) == Nissan
B2 (boxy cubical car) == Scion (a Toyota marquee)
Element (boxy cubical car) == Honda

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (I2dne)

326 Buck Turgidson >> Buck Throckmorton

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (rpxSz)

327 Maybe someone else commented on this already. It's understandable that people are more afraid of the Corona virus than the flu. The flu is something we have a great deal of understanding about while the Corona virus represents an unknown threat. It's possible more people will die from the ordinary flu, but the fatality rate for people who actually contract the Corona virus may be much, much higher.

Posted by: Max Power at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (q177U)

328 I was discussing that very thing - why some people insist on identifying as libertarians - just last night.

My take is that people do it to try and be hipster-level kewl. They are not dull, boring, republicans or conservatives; they are libertarians!

My student asserted it was more because of socons and other big government types, who do not mind more government as long as it supports their pet projects, infesting the Republican Party and getting so much attention from the media as "conservative" spokesmen.

Overall we both agreed that "libertarian" is a near-meaningless term these days, identifying one more as a contrarian than suggesting any set of beliefs.

Posted by: Sam at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (ohyxL)

329 I can't stand libertarians. They call themselves that to wrap themselves in freedom just to get high as fuck.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (vP0/o)

330 I'm just so done with the concept of "what you owe to society".

So basically you reject the fundamental principles of a civilized society?

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (C+evo)

331 Can I just blare a siren up and down a quiet street all day and night long? It's my "right", isn't it? If not on the street, can I put one outside my house? Just a siren that screams at random intervals? Why not?

No, because that would make you an asshole. Also, you would be infringing on others' rights to the peacable enjoyment of their realms.

Libertarians are all about respecting others' rights.

Also, when BUCK THROCKMORTON was in prison he didn't have the common courtesy to give his boyfriend a reacharound.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (gd9RK)

332 Murray Rothbard is famous in saying we can have open borders or a welfare state but never both. If we try both we wind up broken

Posted by: Sweeny Todd at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (x9tsA)

333 The perfect crime is a trifecta of Libertarian canon.

Posted by: Fritz at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (ATCV4)

334 As I have written often in recent days, the entire thrust of the Constitution was rewritten by the 14th Amendment, the most muscular of the Reconstruction Amendments. (btw, did you know that the Southern States were not allowed to rejoin the Union unless they ratified this Amendment? Military Occupation continued until they complied)

Article 1: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It sounds fine, but note what happened here - the Federal Government is the sole authority with the Power to enforce this provision. This single paragraph right here gave the Federal Government total compulsory power over the States, and it changed the Nation forever.

Article 5: "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

and this is so vague that it gave the Congress the Constitutional Authority to do anything it wanted to, including overriding the rest of the existing constitution. These two paragraphs are the source of it all.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (Kpl3J)

335 325 Cube (name) == Nissan
B2 (boxy cubical car) == Scion (a Toyota marquee)
Element (boxy cubical car) == Honda
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (I2dne)

And they all looked like they had been cobbled together by two drunk rednecks and a drunker Mexican.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (RD7QR)

336 McVeigh and Nichols used 55 gallon drums filled with ANFO, with a bag of ammonium nitrate / nitromethane on top of the drums as a booster.

I believe dynamite in general has largely been replaced by various ammonium nitrate based products. There is a binary product called Kinestick . A sensitizing liquid is poured into a container of solid ammonium nitrate to activate it. There's also a family of AN gels called Tovex -- comes in long plastic tubes that look like sausage links..
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug

And all the talk about using anfo or black powder?
Start buying "farm" quantities or 40 lbs of BP out of nowhere and set an extra place at the dinner table for BATFE.

Again, a libertarian government will only step in when you have encroached upon someone else's rights.

Guess what? That guy living on the 9th floor or an apartment building? He can't buy it because he has no where to use it. But hasn't his rights been abridged?

And all of a sudden, we're back to where we are now.

No one gets shit. Easier to deal with than picking winners snd losers.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (QFqpA)

337

Libertarians dont all smoke Pot you silly Neo Con (Progressive Conservative). Stop reading Wikipedia for political misinformation.
Posted by: fisht /I]

Who are you talking to?

Virtually no one here is a neocon.

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (SFOr6)

338 >>>So, Prometheus...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (zZbCU)

*weaponized eye roll*

Posted by: Max Power at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (q177U)

339 C'mon man! Was it over when the Germans appointed Mazie Horono to the Senate? My word as a Biden, FAT. That's storybook man.

Posted by: Joe Biden no malarkey at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (U8dAf)

340 So, Prometheus...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts

dude, you're taunting AtC?

*backs away*
*pours drink*

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (d7Ww2)

341 Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (KZzsI)

Of course you can that's easy. When do we declare death? Lack of a heartbeat right? So when a heartbeat is detected thats a life.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (vP0/o)

342 > The reason that government got into marriage was because of property and custody rights in divorce cases.

And how is that a legitimate function of the FEDERAL government?

> So based on this you think the Supreme Court would not have redfined marriage via a challenge to any of the state laws?

That ratchet only goes one way. Both "liberals" and "conservative" statists have been all about handing more power to the feds when it serves them, while being quick to screech when the pendulum swings the other way.

The Fourteenth Amendment has been abused nearly as much as the Commerce Clause. It's likely too late to unwind it at this stage, but that doesn't mean we should let it spin further.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (lbYzk)

343

Damn.

You guys are really giving it to RoyalOil, and giving it to him real good.

Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (Vmh67)

344 340 So, Prometheus...
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts

dude, you're taunting AtC?

*backs away*
*pours drink*
Posted by: nurse ratched at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (d7Ww2)

=========

I like to imagine that AtC and I are cool.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (zZbCU)

345 326 Buck Turgidson >> Buck Throckmorton
Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (rpxSz)

Turd Ferguson >> Buck Turgidson >> Buck Throckmorton

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (Kpl3J)

346 I'm beginning to suspect that anyone that calls themselves a word based on "liberty" is full of shit. (liberals, libertarians)

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (1ISKN)

347 310
good day to buy

not as good as 2008 but not bad

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (rpxSz)

Monday may be better. About 10-10:30.

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 04:12 PM (Orx/W)

348 > Lack of a heartbeat right?

It's generally brain function nowadays, I believe, but it probably varies from state to state.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (lbYzk)

349 My take is that people do it to try and be hipster-level kewl. They are not dull, boring, republicans or conservatives; they are libertarians!

It also permits them to triangulate. To be above it all since Libertarians never will be in a position of power nor have skin in the game. Always on the outside looking in.

So they take that position to heckle, ridicule and continuously find fault in everyone else.

Libertarians allow people to always be smug. If something doesn't go perfectly well, then figure out what political party that person should belong to and then mock everyone in that party.

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (C+evo)

350 Overall we both agreed that "libertarian" is a near-meaningless term these days, identifying one more as a contrarian than suggesting any set of beliefs.

Ultimately I think that is accurate, but as people have brought up here before (including the boss ewok) so is conservatism and indeed progressivism. What is President Trump? He's not a conservative, but he has been in practice the most conservative president in my lifetime.

Things have gotten so confused and mixed up and lost in the sea of arguments that they hardly have any fixed meaning any longer.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (KZzsI)

351 So the fugitive slave law was an example of respect
for state and individual sovereignty? Yeah, fake history. If the
Confederacy cared so much about state rights they would've featured it
as prominently in their declaration of causes as they did slavery.
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (qexAi)

Let me cut this short - mostly because I don't give a damn about hearing how much you love the current Union as constituted. You've went on and on about it many, many times before. And I gave not a damn then either.

There was nothing - not a damn thing - in any ratifying documents that implied any State that joined the Union was required to stay. Two states, New York and Virginia, included language reserving their right to leave.

Yes - slaves were considered property. And - get this - that war was not about slavery. Ask your bud Lincoln. He was willing to leave the slave in bondage, or free some and enslave others, to preserve the Union. It was not about slavery. That war was about the right of an economic block to leave over two distinct regional views regarding tariffs and exports. Nothing more.

The next time you spout off about how Such and Such Territory should be free - and everybody does when they see it on TV - just be quiet. You've got the same mentality that every person did in Moscow when the Poles went to riot.

You like your SuperPower when you like it. And you don't when it's somebody else's.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (TnxsG)

352 348 > Lack of a heartbeat right?

It's generally brain function nowadays, I believe, but it probably varies from state to state.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (lbYzk)

=========

Can we please stop talking about Joe Biden?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (zZbCU)

353 Oh, nothing really, other than the fundamental tenant that no person has a right to another person's body.

Tenet, my large bosomed bestie who only occasionally falls over while lying down and shouldn't die of the coronas.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (gd9RK)

354 > I'm beginning to suspect that anyone that calls themselves a word based on "liberty" is full of shit. (liberals, libertarians)

Meh. "Conservative" actually means "someone who wants to keep things exactly the way they are".

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (lbYzk)

355 312 Paul Krugman, who predicted economic doom because of Trump's election, tweets 'Dow 25,000!' and dropping due to 'Trumpvirus'

They're busy exposing themselves but not in their usual way. I think they have lost the plot on how they actually sound to the average person.

"Obamavirus" at least would have been funny if this was back then. It has personality. It has the same number of syllables. But naming this thing after Trump is beyond retarded and will fool no one.

Posted by: ... at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (OHZm8)

356 And they all looked like they had been cobbled together by two drunk rednecks and a drunker Mexican.

Those are all left-hand-drive versions of unedited Japan-market models. In Japan in general and Tokyo in particular, cars need to be short and narrow, so you get cargo space by making them tall.

The fact that that setup also was advantageous for hauling around, say, a Marshall stack and a Les Paul to a bar gig wasn't lost on a specific population of Americans.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (ZGrMX)

357
And they all looked like they had been cobbled together by two drunk rednecks and a drunker Mexican.
Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 04:11 PM (RD7QR)

Toasters on wheels.

Posted by: Ladyl at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (TdMsT)

358 Of course you can that's easy. When do we declare death? Lack of a heartbeat right? So when a heartbeat is detected thats a life

Which is abject nonsense.

My cells are alive but have no heartbeat. A human being who has no brain activity didn't cease to be a human person.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (KZzsI)

359 OT: Calling All Jews!!!

I found what looks to me to be a good recipe for Flanken.

What do you normally serve with this?

Looks like it's a mashed potatoes/rice/noodles sort of dealio with, maybe a green salad.

But, hey, I'm just a goyim. What do I know?

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (z0XD8)

360 You're right; Nissan made the Cube.
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a gentle glide applicator tip at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (Vmh67)

That was a freaky movie.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (Kpl3J)

361
But none of us are truly philosophically consistent.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (KZzsI)

An obsession with philosophical consistency, and indeed perfection, is the primary problem suffered by many self identified libertarians and some conservatives. Liberals have the reverse thing going where they can accept any number of contradictory things.

You want a perfect philosophy of governance? It is beyond you, it is beyond any of us. We can work with what we have and try to make do, but trying to adhere perfectly to abstract principles we've chosen is a trap.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (qexAi)

362 Wanna smoke your dope? Fine, but your addictions and issues aren't mine, and the consequences of them won't be paid by the public trough. Etc.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)

Name one country where this is the case. Can't live in the world of theory.
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 03:53 PM (qexAi)

Which is why in literally the next line in my post I said none of that was ever going to happen so I gave up on the whole idea.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (z79tQ)

363 I can't stand libertarians. They call themselves that to wrap themselves in freedom just to get high as fuck.
Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (vP0/o)

I have never done a single illegal drug in my life.

But, you know, I'm *ecstatic* to know that you think I base decades of contemplation about the least awful way to govern humanity upon LULZ GET HIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Ecstatic. Thrilled. Delighted to know that you can't stand me.

I assure you, the feeling is now utterly mutual.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (GbPPJ)

364 The question that Libertarians really hate is "where do you draw the line?". Because it rends their whole school of thought asunder.

That was kind of my point above. Some lines have to be drawn arbitrarily. An 18 year old can vote (never mind the wisdom of that). Why not a 17 year old? How about someone who is 17 years and 11 months old?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (auq4b)

365 The reason that government got into marriage was because of property and custody rights in divorce cases.

Try again. Think after-effects of the damned Sixteenth Amendment.

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:15 PM (C+evo)

366 Meh. "Conservative" actually means "someone who wants to keep things exactly the way they are".

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (lbYzk)

Things. Some things. Bedrock things. Foundational things. Other things are expected to change within that framework. I feel this is generally understood.

Posted by: ... at February 28, 2020 04:15 PM (OHZm8)

367 Buck Turgidson >> Buck Throckmorton

There we go. Would you like some Trisquits?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:15 PM (gd9RK)

368 One square only.

Posted by: Sheryl Crow at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (X53Hn)

369 On the speed dial of The World's Most Interesting Man, the #1 position is held by Chuck Norris.
#2? Buck Throckmorton

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (l4C/z)

370 An obsession with philosophical consistency, and indeed perfection, is the primary problem suffered by many self identified libertarians and some conservatives. Liberals have the reverse thing going where they can accept any number of contradictory things.

You want a perfect philosophy of governance? It is beyond you, it is beyond any of us. We can work with what we have and try to make do, but trying to adhere perfectly to abstract principles we've chosen is a trap.
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (qexAi)

Yep. Also my point above.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (auq4b)

371 We need a new label, one that stands in total contrast as a total opposite of the left.

What's a word that means not a total f'ckup or creepy weirdo or money launderer?

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (1ISKN)

372 Undernood has arrived.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (tT0V4)

373 My left nut is Libertarian. My right nut is Republican. Which one is high and tight?

Posted by: Fritz at February 28, 2020 04:16 PM (ATCV4)

374 Posted by: Max Power at February 28, 2020 04:10 PM (q177U)

Oy...and here we go. But the over reaction is absurd Max.The whole worlds events have been cancelled. Fo' reals?

Posted by: Cannibal Blob at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (Orx/W)

375 good day to buy�

not as good as 2008 but not bad

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:07 PM (rpxSz)

Correct. Started buying yesterday and bought more today.

And I'll be ready if Monday offers another sale.

Posted by: Ha at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (EsGqq)

376 I like to imagine that AtC and I are cool.

AtC is cool.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (gd9RK)

377

and this is so vague that it gave the Congress the Constitutional Authority to do anything it wanted to, including overriding the rest of the existing constitution. These two paragraphs are the source of it all.
Posted by: Tom Servo

As Akil Amar wrote a long time ago now, the 4th Amendment fundamentally reoriented the constitution as a restraint upon the states. Most people don't realize this, but that was its exact purpose. Following slavery, the fundamental nature of the federal republic was changed to impose specific restraints on "states' rights", making the system itself no longer truly federal, but more of a unitary/federal hybrid.

Arguing about federal overreach has accordingly become confused, because much of the initial constitutional system was not designed with a strong federal government in mind. The 14th was as fundamentally transformative as the shift from the Article of Confederation to the Constitution.

Posted by: imp at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (SFOr6)

378 Now Joe is inventing new states.

Joe Biden says he's "right here in the state of North South Carolina"

https://bit.ly/3ahGXKi

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (+y/Ru)

379 'Sup, y'all?

Posted by: Weasel at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (spA/L)

380 361
But none of us are truly philosophically consistent.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (KZzsI)

An obsession with philosophical consistency, and indeed perfection, is the primary problem suffered by many self identified libertarians and some conservatives. Liberals have the reverse thing going where they can accept any number of contradictory things.

You want a perfect philosophy of governance? It is beyond you, it is beyond any of us. We can work with what we have and try to make do, but trying to adhere perfectly to abstract principles we've chosen is a trap.
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (qexAi)

Yes, this. Also, some people have some odd ideas about the Confederacy.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (RD7QR)

381 POTHEAD LIBERTARIANS: What were we talking about man?

Posted by: Ganja at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (mBXrl)

382 []"Conservative" actually means "someone who wants to keep things exactly the way they are".

That seems more "preservative" like freezing a moment in time. Conservation is about maintaining something while working with changes. Its used in natural contexts like this.

A preservationist wants every twig to be exactly as it was and nobody ever setting foot in this pristine environment under a bubble.

A conservationist is fine with people using an outdoor area wisely and respectfully.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:18 PM (KZzsI)

383 Wanna smoke your dope? Fine, but your addictions and issues aren't mine, and the consequences of them won't be paid by the public trough. Etc.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)

I say again: consider the vagrancy problem, which is at heart largely a drug abuse problem (convolved with a mental health problem). Vagrancy costs an enormous amount of money, especially here in California. IIRC LA alone is dropping something like $600 million on programs and housing for vagrants.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 04:18 PM (auq4b)

384 351 So the fugitive slave law was an example of respect
for state and individual sovereignty? Yeah, fake history. If the
Confederacy cared so much about state rights they would've featured it
as prominently in their declaration of causes as they did slavery.
Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:06 PM (qexAi)

Let me cut this short - mostly because I don't give a damn about hearing how much you love the current Union as constituted. You've went on and on about it many, many times before. And I gave not a damn then either.

There was nothing - not a damn thing - in any ratifying documents that implied any State that joined the Union was required to stay. Two states, New York and Virginia, included language reserving their right to leave.

Yes - slaves were considered property. And - get this - that war was not about slavery. Ask your bud Lincoln. He was willing to leave the slave in bondage, or free some and enslave others, to preserve the Union. It was not about slavery. That war was about the right of an economic block to leave over two distinct regional views regarding tariffs and exports. Nothing more.

The next time you spout off about how Such and Such Territory should be free - and everybody does when they see it on TV - just be quiet. You've got the same mentality that every person did in Moscow when the Poles went to riot.

You like your SuperPower when you like it. And you don't when it's somebody else's.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (TnxsG)

Disregarding the false assumptions, it is the South who asserted the war was about slavery. Correctly, you note the Union's cause for war was about preservation of the unified state.

Stupidly, you digress into a legal argument. Let's say the Confederacy seceded and this is all perfectly legal. Guess what, the Union can just annex them. They lost, tough shit. If they'd have won, they'd be independent. Secession is not a question of law but power.

Romanticize history all you want but I'm fine rustling jimmies about accuracy.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:19 PM (qexAi)

385 Interesting fight we have going on here. At its heart, I believe, is how we view human nature. Are we basically good, bad, or a constant mashup of both qualities? What we ARE has a lot to do with the proper form of governance we adhere to, es?

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 04:19 PM (90T4r)

386 321 But I don't think Libertarians are sophists. They aren't crazy.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you.

I can't argue with someone who doesn't exist.
Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 04:09 PM (a/AB1)

That's...not entirely true.

*Shifty eyes*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:19 PM (l4C/z)

387 Stupid Sweeny Todd sock. Dunno how that stuck around . . .

People create organization as a species imperative. It is when the organization rules us instead of the other way around is when it becomes tyranny.

Rothbard also said that if we could make all government disappear by pushing a button, it would be recreated and more powerful and with less concern for freedom within 10 years.

Government does perform valuable functuons, but ones that must be done in socitey. One solution to this is to have a government. Libertarianism is trying to find another solution that focuses on what government was supposed to create in the first place, which was greater security and greater freedom

Posted by: Kindltot at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (x9tsA)

388 Most illicit drugs SHOULD be illegal, because the consequences of their use are suffered by society in general. See, e.g., the burgeoning vagrancy problem.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 03:58 PM (auq4b)

Before I address the above I want to say that you are a million percent right about the "consistency" thing. Making intellectual consistency a god is the most childish immature way of dealing with reality. No one can be consistent and wearing it as a badge is pointless. I am NOT consistent and it doesn't bother me. I am consistently inconsistent and it is not the end of the world for my belief system. Context matters and my brain has matured beyond the age of 12.

...

As far as illicit drugs, they allow you to enslave yourself very easily, and slavery is illegal. We are not allowed to voluntarily surrender our freedom to something else.

Posted by: ... at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (OHZm8)

389 > A human being who has no brain activity didn't cease to be a human person.

Joe Biden has already been cited.

Seriously, though, I disagree with you here. If your heart stops, you're a person whose heart has stopped. If it starts again, or if you get slapped onto a heart-lung machine soon enough, you'll be fine. The heart is just a pump. Replace it with an artificial one and it's still gonna be the same person, with the same memories, same likes and dislikes, same everything.

A body with no brain activity whatsoever, by contrast, isn't a person any more. It's a piece of meat. Replace the brain with a different one and it's gonna be a different person.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (lbYzk)

390 Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:14 PM (GbPPJ)

I've read your posts when I come across them. I don't really read or comment during the day but from the ones I have read I've never thought of you to be a libertarian in the sense of the ones I'm talking about. The ones I'm talking about are the ones that get screen time and screech the loudest and seem to be obsessed with drugs and open borders.

Hopefully that clears the air.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (vP0/o)

391 The question that Libertarians really hate is "where do you draw the line?". Because it rends their whole school of thought asunder.

Yeah, propose to build a hog rendering plant upwind of their dream home and watch how fast they start screaming about zoning, building codes and deed restrictions that they will impose upon you.

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (C+evo)

392 379 'Sup, y'all?
Posted by: Weasel at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (spA/L)

This is a hot thread, Weasel. Lots of mines laid.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (l4C/z)

393 I'm reactionary, an opponent of progressives and liberalism, an extreme conservative.

Posted by: Archer at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (gmo/4)

394 They're busy exposing themselves but not in their usual way. I think they have lost the plot on how they actually sound to the average person.

Steering the Titanic by committee.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (a/AB1)

395 I consider myself a "minarchist libertarian".

I say that "libertarian" means someone who thinks it's axiomatic that individual liberty should be maximized. Then you have to argue over what that means; I'm firmly in the "negative rights" camp. You have no right to force me to give you stuff, you have no right to force me to bake a cake, you have no right to force me to say something you want me to say. But you do have the right to be left alone. You can use drugs, hire a prostitute, be a prostitute, own and carry weapons, worship how you like, marry multiple people, etc. Government should not have any laws designed to make us better people (like laws against prostitution). "The right for you to swing your arm stops at the front of my nose."

I'm a "minarchist" which means I think we need a small ("minimal") government. I believe that the proper role of government is to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves. We can buy our own food, but we need official courts and police and such.

Some libertarians who are "anarchocapitalists" think that the free market ("capitalism") can solve all our problems, up to and including national defense. We don't need courts... people will freely engage in arbitration! We don't need police... people will hire private police companies! National defense? People will buy "invasion insurance" and the big insurance companies will have fighter jets, soldiers, etc. to ward off invasion! This all sounds great but I am conservative enough that I want to see it tried by someone else before I agree that it will work.

A minarchy has been tried. Consider the government of the United States about 200 to 150 years ago. There was no Department of Education, there was no income tax, etc. The Federal government was small and didn't do very much. And it worked.

Of course, back then, the government didn't do a good job of protecting the rights of certain people (black people, Chinese, etc.) so I'm not claiming it was an awesome golden age in all ways. But it serves as an example of a minarchy that I will claim worked pretty well. I'm not aware of any country in history that tried all the anarchocapitalist ideas and showed that they work.

By the way, one reason I'm dubious about "invasion insurance" is the free-rider problem. If everyone assumes that all their neighbors are paying for invasion insurance, they might not want to pay it. The idea of privatized fire departments has been tried and works, because there is no free rider problem: if you didn't pay for fire insurance, the fire department lets your house burn down (or accepts a one-time emergency payment, much higher than the insurance payment, and then saves your house). But there's no way to let a foreign country invade just the people who didn't pay, so the protection has to be universal, and I think that national defense is a legit function of a government.

In a libertarian paradise, Google and Facebook really would be free to do whatever they want. I won't lie, I'd feel better if the government put its boot on the neck of those companies and made them treat us better. But the libertarian paradise only works if its citizens are adults, and adults can solve the problems of Google and Facebook by taking their business to competing platforms. Also, it would still be illegal to defraud people in the libertarian paradise, so if you could make a case that the mistreatment of non-progressive thought rises to fraud you would still be able to sue.

Google and Facebook are in enviable positions right now. The only way they can lose is if they screw up. I think their mistreatment of conservatives and libertarians is an example of them screwing up. I'd love to see competitors to them rise up and eat their lunch... ideally I'd like to see a distributed social media platform where you publish your own social media posts and people subscribe to them or not, thus removing the central point of control. (Again I won't lie... the early Internet was more decentralized than what we have now, and I'm not sanguine about people really making it a priority to decrease the reliance on Big Tech.)

P.S. Historically, libertarians (including the Libertarian Party) have done a terrible job of convincing everyone of their ideas. I really don't know why anyone would try to ride such coattails without actually believing in libertarian ideas. I suspect that the people who call themselves libertarians really believe that they are libertarians and it makes them feel good about themselves somehow. But if they think that forcing people to bake cakes for others is libertarian, they are either stupid or intellectually dishonest.

Posted by: mr_jack at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (57l0O)

396
I was thinking that maybe we could use AlextheChick a standard to calculate Mike Bloombergs height.

It's a well-known fact that AtC is the exact same height as a Big Mac.

Using The AtC to MacDonald's Food-stuffs Comparison Chart, that would make Mike Bloomberg the same height as a-

Filet-O-Fish Sandwich.

There you go. Mini-Mike is one Filet-O-Fish Sandwich tall.

It's science people!

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (z0XD8)

397 Vagrancy costs an enormous amount of money, especially here in California. IIRC LA alone is dropping something like $600 million on programs and housing for vagrants.

Because you get more of things you subsidize. If they stopped spending that money and making vagrancy, if not attractive, then at least tolerable, it'd go down.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (ZGrMX)

398 You like your SuperPower when you like it. And you don't when it's somebody else's.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:13 PM (TnxsG)

There's no point lamenting it, because it was an historical inevitability that transcended any of the personalities or ideas involved. A group of smaller jurisdictions will always gradually transform into one large uniited jurisdiction through war, it's the logic of power and expansion. Ancient China ans it's warring States, Medieval France, old Muscovy, 19th Century Germany - as soon as one group is able to mobilize enough military power, they are going to be able to knock off and absorb any smaller powers around them that try to stay separate. It always happens in human societies, it can't be stopped.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:21 PM (Kpl3J)

399 I love how the main response to "Why is Pot bad" is "We're all connected".

I don't friggin' smoke pot. It would cost me too much money with what I do for a living. I'll just drink beer.

But listen to yourselves. You're friggin' Liberals - with different nouns that you hate and others you love. At the end of the day - you still sound like dicks that want to shape how everybody else behaves behind closed doors.

If you've accepted the "We're All Connected" premise - then we're all just arguing over the form of our Nanny State.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:22 PM (TnxsG)

400 What we ARE has a lot to do with the proper form of governance we adhere to, es?

The founding fathers thought of humans as fundamentally able to act in decent ways, but untrustworthy and flawed. So they built a system which had in its intent at least checks and balances to preserve liberty while maintaining order, and it could work... with fundamentally moral people and a culture based on the Judeo-Christian principles the founders followed.

But ultimately, people are at heart, bad. It doesn't even take much study of human history to figure this out. Every parent who thinks babies are innocent learns in a damned hurry that's not the case. We're all bastards deep down, restrained only by outside forces and pressures that help shape us into better behavior. We'll be as bad as we're allowed and our conscience will allow us to be.

No form of government can completely and perfectly address that. The founders understood that as well, which is why they built the best system they could then say "BUT IT ONLY WORKS IF YOU ARE VIRTUOUS"

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:22 PM (KZzsI)

401 > Other things are expected to change within that framework. I feel this is generally understood.

I think if you asked a hundred people what "bedrock things" should never be changed, you'd get at least 20 or 30 different answers.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:22 PM (lbYzk)

402 The ones I'm talking about are the ones that get screen time and screech the loudest and seem to be obsessed with drugs and open borders.

By that standard, Mitt Romney and Jenn Rubin are conservatives and you aren't.

Whoever yells the loudest doesn't get to define a movement. That's ATC's point.

Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:22 PM (ZGrMX)

403 Sup, y'all?
Posted by: Weasel

Patiently waiting for my special order to arrive. Beginning to accumulate large quantities of 9mm in anticipation.

Posted by: Sock Monkey. ..bringing up the rear at February 28, 2020 04:23 PM (a/AB1)

404 Can't we all just get along?

Posted by: Arkansas Biden Baby at February 28, 2020 04:23 PM (vtcmf)

405 Now lets get back to the real issue: The 9mm pistol is for girly-men the M1911 in .45 is where its at, brother.

Posted by: Archer at February 28, 2020 04:23 PM (gmo/4)

406 So it looks like the Deep State and Globalists are willing to sacrifice trillions of dollars in market equity, devalued 401k's and decreased economic output and GDP to get rid of Donald Trump by causing a global panic over what is essentially a cold virus that the Chinese let escape from a lab.

I bet they fail.

I hope revenge is swift and merciless.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at February 28, 2020 04:23 PM (rw8je)

407 No offense mr_jack, I describe myself as a Lazy Conservative, I'm not reading all that.

Posted by: lowandslow at February 28, 2020 04:24 PM (4thlk)

408 385 Interesting fight we have going on here. At its heart, I believe, is how we view human nature. Are we basically good, bad, or a constant mashup of both qualities? What we ARE has a lot to do with the proper form of governance we adhere to, es?
Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 04:19 PM (90T4r)

If men were angels, there'd be no need of governments.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:24 PM (Kpl3J)

409 > The founding fathers thought of humans as fundamentally able to act in decent ways, but untrustworthy and flawed.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:24 PM (lbYzk)

410 Meh. "Conservative" actually means "someone who wants to keep things exactly the way they are".

Usually why I characterize my leaning as "policies
that favoring human flourishing".

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:25 PM (C+evo)

411 A body with no brain activity whatsoever, by contrast, isn't a person any more. It's a piece of meat. Replace the brain with a different one and it's gonna be a different person.

Its still a human, its just a dead one. The brain activity ceased life, not humanity. You didn't become something else by dying, not at that fundamental a level.

Did you cease to become a person? Physically at least, I can see that argument. So if you want to argue that a baby only becomes a person -- its obviously human -- when it develops enough of a brain to register mental activity, okay that's one method. It might even be acceptable to a lot of people.

That's 6-7 weeks into pregnancy.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:25 PM (KZzsI)

412
This is a hot thread, Weasel. Lots of mines laid.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo. Yes, you. at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (l4C/z)

-------

Yeah. I know what topic to hit if you wanna turn this place into a melee, lol.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 28, 2020 04:25 PM (fUqBx)

413 402 The ones I'm talking about are the ones that get screen time and screech the loudest and seem to be obsessed with drugs and open borders.

By that standard, Mitt Romney and Jenn Rubin are conservatives and you aren't.

Whoever yells the loudest doesn't get to define a movement. That's ATC's point.
Posted by: Ian S. at February 28, 2020 04:22 PM (ZGrMX)

==========

I'd put more stock in how Milton Friedman defined libertarianism than how Gary Johnson defines it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, back to random thoughts at February 28, 2020 04:25 PM (zZbCU)

414 I've read your posts when I come across them. I don't really read or comment during the day but from the ones I have read I've never thought of you to be a libertarian in the sense of the ones I'm talking about. The ones I'm talking about are the ones that get screen time and screech the loudest and seem to be obsessed with drugs and open borders.

Hopefully that clears the air.
Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:20 PM (vP0/o)

Oh, it does. Thank you for the reply.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:25 PM (GbPPJ)

415 > I'd put more stock in how Milton Friedman defined libertarianism than how Gary Johnson defines it.

I forget who it was who said that the Johnson/Weld commercials reminded them of a couple of creepy real estate salesmen trying to talk their secretary into a threesome.

Heh.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:27 PM (lbYzk)

416 >>I say again: consider the vagrancy problem, which is at heart largely a
drug abuse problem (convolved with a mental health problem). Vagrancy
costs an enormous amount of money, especially here in California. IIRC
LA alone is dropping something like $600 million on programs and housing
for vagrants.

Thought that in 2018 or19 CA passed a ballot issue allocating over $1 billion to fight homelessness? It's only going to generate more funding as the bureaucracy and all those orgs that get a piece of that pie get bigger, as always.

Posted by: Lizzy at February 28, 2020 04:27 PM (bDqIh)

417 Also, thank you, Bander.

Posted by: alexthechick - Ragebunny. Hopping all around. at February 28, 2020 04:27 PM (GbPPJ)

418 For everyone referencing my point about who barks the loudest seems to miss my bottom point as well; obsessed with legalizing everything and open borders.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:28 PM (vP0/o)

419 The drug argument is a tough one. I can see good arguments on both sides. I think we can all agree that certain drugs just shouldn't be publicly legal like PCP or LSD which can cause incredibly violent and destructive behavior. Others, like Heroin are so unbelievably damaging and ultimately lethal that they probably shouldn't be legal either.

But barbiturates? Marijuana? Cocaine? Any of these can be very destructive to someone's life, but then so can booze and cigarettes.

And like the cowboy says, every man has a right to make a fool of himself. Freedom means allowing people to do stupid stuff with their own bodies. The alternative is Mike Gloomberg banning drinks he deems too big for you, or the British government taking children away from parents because they get "too fat."

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:29 PM (KZzsI)

420 408 385 Interesting fight we have going on here. At its heart, I believe, is how we view human nature. Are we basically good, bad, or a constant mashup of both qualities? What we ARE has a lot to do with the proper form of governance we adhere to, es?
Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 04:19 PM (90T4r)

If men were angels, there'd be no need of governments.

Posted by: Tom Servo at February 28, 2020 04:24 PM (Kpl3J)

We operate on a spectrum. The more noble and independent we are in character, the better suited to liberty. The more vicious and debased, the more we must be constrained.

Posted by: Someguy at February 28, 2020 04:29 PM (qexAi)

421 Wanna smoke your dope? Fine, but your addictions and issues aren't mine, and the consequences of them won't be paid by the public trough. Etc.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 03:48 PM (z79tQ)

I say again: consider the vagrancy problem, which is at heart largely a drug abuse problem (convolved with a mental health problem). Vagrancy costs an enormous amount of money, especially here in California. IIRC LA alone is dropping something like $600 million on programs and housing for vagrants.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at February 28, 2020 04:18 PM (auq4b)

I don't understand how someone could not read the next line where I say that the theory is unworkable and gave up on it.

Posted by: my .02 at February 28, 2020 04:29 PM (z79tQ)

422 People are at heart, bad. There are no utopias. So screw socialism and communism. We are all too driven by self interest for that shit.
We need governance, but not jailers. We need rope, but not enough to hang ourselves with.
Society is haaaard.

Posted by: tubal at February 28, 2020 04:29 PM (90T4r)

423 Thought that in 2018 or19 CA passed a ballot issue
allocating over $1 billion to fight homelessness? It's only going to
generate more funding as the bureaucracy and all those orgs that get a
piece of that pie get bigger, as always.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 28, 2020 04:27 PM (bDqIh)

The problem is California. They CHOSE to spend that much money over a problem that should be self-correcting.

Anything you subsidize will grow. Anything you tax will shrink.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:29 PM (TnxsG)

424 > Its still a human, its just a dead one.

A dead body is a corpse, not a human being. It has no civil rights. There are laws and regulations that control what you can do with it, but it has no rights in and of itself.

> So if you want to argue that a baby only becomes a person -- its obviously human -- when it develops enough of a brain to register mental activity, okay that's one method.

As far as we know, human-level (or even mammalian-level) thought requires a functioning neocortex, which doesn't really develop until the third trimester.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:30 PM (lbYzk)

425 "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

Which is antithetical to today's Libertarian expressions of liberty. Ultimately this is a debate between Edmund Burke and Thomas Paine.

Self regulating people don't need much government. Those who engage in vice or recommend tearing down any civil prohibitions against it have absolutely no concept on man's nature.

Thus, those who don't self regulate, in order to not take down those around him need to be externally regulated. Rome used to manage that through excommunication, since then, government has taken over that role. Now with the abdication of Rule of Law within our government, it becomes Big Tech's responsibility to regulate behavior.

Posted by: 🐧 at February 28, 2020 04:30 PM (C+evo)

426 boobies anyone?

Posted by: Archer at February 28, 2020 04:30 PM (gmo/4)

427 As far as we know, human-level (or even mammalian-level) thought requires a functioning neocortex, which doesn't really develop until the third trimester.

See now we're redefining already. How smart do you have to be to be considered a person, again? Is someone in a coma now not a human person because their brain activity is so minimal?

As you state, we don't really know. And again, the error has to be on the side of caution because this is a helpless innocent baby's life at stake.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:32 PM (KZzsI)

428 boobies anyone?
Posted by: Archer at February 28, 2020 04:30 PM (gmo/4)

That's the real problem with Libertarians is that they're against boobs!

UnAmerican Boob-Hating Libertarians!

Posted by: naturalfake at February 28, 2020 04:33 PM (z0XD8)

429 "the libertarian paradise only works if its citizens are adults"

I think I see the problem.

Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 04:33 PM (Tnijr)

430 I think we can all agree that certain drugs just shouldn't be publicly
legal like PCP or LSD which can cause incredibly violent and destructive
behavior.

No. We can't. This is the kind of language that is not helpful in the slightest. Your statement is false.

"WE" can't even agree on if MJ should be legal. And "WE" should not have to. There is a mechanism for that. It's called the State. Which is where all balls and strikes should be called.

Don't want the Sticky Green in your State. Then don't vote for it. But I firmly believe every State should be able to decide for themselves.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:34 PM (TnxsG)

431 > See now we're redefining already.

I'm not "redefining" anything.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:34 PM (lbYzk)

432 For everyone referencing my point about who barks
the loudest seems to miss my bottom point as well; obsessed with
legalizing everything and open borders.

Posted by: thathalfrican - phlexxin at February 28, 2020 04:28 PMThe only libertarians I've met are 1) a political candidate for the Libertarian Party, 2) anarchists who figured out that government needed to exist in some form, and 3) people who didn't know how to spell or pronounce "libertine."I think you're describing a subset of the third.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at February 28, 2020 04:35 PM (fxCK2)

433 A dead body is a corpse, not a human being. It has no civil rights.

But WHY does it not have any rights?

Its human, that's impossible to scientifically deny. This is human tissue, human DNA.

The question is when something becomes a "person" not human. A corpse is no longer a person because they're inanimate and lifeless. Still human, just dead human, and not a person any longer.

And does the potential, near-certainty that something will inevitably become a person have moral and legal import? Say this is just a lump of 16 cells rapidly dividing, which will one day develop into a toddler. At what point is it reasonable, moral, and legal to kill this creation? Its human, no question about that -- again, human tissue, human DNA. it is distinct from its mother, in DNA and structure.

This is why abortion is something so ghastly to me and so many others.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:35 PM (KZzsI)

434 And I'll be ready if Monday offers another sale.
Posted by: Ha at February 28, 2020 04:17 PM (EsGqq)

I wish you all the luck in the world

I'm too fucking old to use the luck

Posted by: REDACTED at February 28, 2020 04:36 PM (rpxSz)

435 No. We can't. This is the kind of language that is not helpful in the slightest. Your statement is false.

The operative word here is CAN. It is possible to, it is something which can at least theoretically be agreed upon. Not MUST or COMPELLED.

Can.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:36 PM (KZzsI)

436 There are way too many Islamic Vultures the Dove needs a escort

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at February 28, 2020 04:37 PM (wGqjj)

437 The founding fathers thought of humans as fundamentally able to act in decent ways, but untrustworthy and flawed.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

God did not intend for the Israelites to have kings, so long as they had Him. He was sad when they begged him for a king. I can't help but notice many of Israel's biblical problems stem from moving obedience from the divine to the state. This is not to say we should go full theocrat, but it does say something about how the nature of the state proceeds from the nature of the people.

Posted by: Brother ~~Cavil~~ Tim at February 28, 2020 04:37 PM (OUMaO)

438 There is a mechanism for that. It's called the State. Which is where all balls and strikes should be called.

I don't even know who you're arguing with or what you think I'm saying here.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:37 PM (KZzsI)

439 > But WHY does it not have any rights?

Because it is not alive. It can't have "rights" any more than a rock can have rights.

I don't really understand why this is an issue. Both from the religious and the scientific perspective, a corpse is not a human being. It is property.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:37 PM (lbYzk)

440 NOOD

Posted by: Max Power at February 28, 2020 04:38 PM (q177U)

441 I don't know what I am but I dang sure ain't no lefty nitwit commie nutcase.

Posted by: freaked at February 28, 2020 04:38 PM (Tnijr)

442 Because it is not alive. It can't have "rights" any more than a rock can have rights.

I'm sorry I was trying to puzzle out the philosophical meaning and import of personhood and rights and apply them to abortion.

No, really. I'm very sorry I tried.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at February 28, 2020 04:39 PM (KZzsI)

443 #429 The American system described in the Construction has the same problem.

"The Constitution isn't perfect but it's better than what we have now"

Posted by: mr_jack at February 28, 2020 04:41 PM (5qySz)

444 The operative word here is CAN. It is possible to, it is something which can at least theoretically be agreed upon. Not MUST or COMPELLED.
Can.

And wrong. No. Just wrong.

The entire reason you divide a region up into segments - lets call them States - is precisely to provide boundaries upon with they can agree to disagree, and do what pleases them within those boundaries.

Can has nothing to do with it. If "Can" worked very often - we wouldn't need States. It's "possible" my ol' lady will blow me bow-legged tonight - it "Can" happen - but I'm going to have a Plan B ready all the same. Because "Can" makes about as much sense as digging into a pile of Horse Shit to find a Pony.

Posted by: Really ? at February 28, 2020 04:41 PM (TnxsG)

445 > Say this is just a lump of 16 cells rapidly dividing, which will one day develop into a toddler.

"May (not 'will') one day develop into" is not the same thing as "is". That washed-out place under the hose spigot on the back of my house "might one day have developed into" a second Grand Canyon (except that I put a piece of concrete under it, so now it won't), but that's not the same as saying it IS a second Grand Canyon.

I'm aware that there are only two allowed positions on abortion in American politics, one being that a single cell is a human being, and the other being that it's not a human being until one nanosecond after it emerges from the vagina.

You know what? All y'all are crazy.

I'm not going to argue it any more, because there's simply no point. Those two equally nutty positions have poisoned the well so thoroughly that it's just not possible to have a rational discussion of the topic.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 28, 2020 04:43 PM (lbYzk)

446 Buck Throckmorton is not allowed in pet stores due to his unnatural love of rodents.

I hear he's up to guinea pigs now.

Posted by: Erebus at February 28, 2020 04:47 PM (EPXLU)

447 Progressives and libertarians want the state to legislate and enforce their morality over the moralities of the majority who founded America. Tyranny of the minority is used by Libertarians and Progressives. But once the majority wants their morality to be legislated and enforced, or reinforced, progressives and libertarians join together screaming and throwing a fit about their rights and morals like theirs are the only ones that matter. Funny that.

Posted by: Ahwoo Flu at February 28, 2020 04:47 PM (oesln)

448 342 Rodrigo,
Read Reynolds v. US dealing with the Morrill Act, The Congress barred any territory from becoming a state unless it outlawed polygamy. The result would have been that polygamy in Utah would be recognized nation wide.

The reason is that under full faith and credit, any marriage valid in one state would be held to be valid in another. Even when Mass did its thing, what was coming down the pike is that people married in Mass were getting divorced in GA and so a GA judge would have to apply GA law to a non-existent marriage under GA law.

One thing leads to another.

Posted by: whig at February 28, 2020 04:53 PM (EUDB2)

449 http://bit.ly/2I7nhg1
********
Like Warren, I Had My Own Sexist Run-In with Chris Matthews | GQ

Posted by: Ghost of Qassem Soleimani at February 28, 2020 04:57 PM (BqBId)

450 LOL, whatever.

There have been arrests for sex slavery when the agreement that lead to the condition was a contact between consenting adults.
No one else was hurt by the transaction.

Give me the libertarian argument for using government force to void that contact.

If you want to argue the unequal position, how is that consistent with consenting adults should be free to enter into any contact they please?
Now you're assigning moral weight to the question. As to where to draw the line as to which transactions are good and bad based on a subjective delineation of who is superior and who is inferior.

If I pay a whore $20 for sex, that's a good transaction.
But somehow, if I loan her $20k on the condition she has to live at my house until she pays me back the $20k through sex work, that's bad.

Posted by: RoyalOil, Vicroy Canadian Territories at February 28, 2020 04:59 PM (vPKfA)

451 Then there are the Natural Law libertarians, who view themselves as classical liberals (echoing the founding fathers) and tracing those roots back to their initial development in the Middle Ages.

Posted by: civil truth at February 28, 2020 05:00 PM (ymrPC)

452 451, Yeah, my monicker is about when that sort started to die out but they never called themselves libertarians and they felt there was governments were created by consent of the governed and that you have a natural right to revolt if a government descended into tyranny.

But once a social compact enforcing natural rights was created, then the government had a right to act in the name of the people as long as it did not breach the compact and the community, not the individual, would judge if that happened through institutions of government.

Posted by: whig at February 28, 2020 05:08 PM (EUDB2)

453 Bullshit

Posted by: Kazi at February 28, 2020 06:25 PM (0x00j)

454 #407 You don't have to read all that if you don't want to.

Buck Throckmorton, in the posting, wrote: "Nowadays I don't even know what 'libertarian' means any more..." So I wrote what libertarianism means to me. So you can go watch reality TV or whatever it is you would rather do. Really, if you were truly lazy, you could have just not bothered to post any comment about what I wrote.

Posted by: mr_jack at February 28, 2020 07:08 PM (M59SC)

455 1) Abortion Uber Alles Libertarians
2) Freedom of Sale & Consumption of Drug of Choice Libertarians
3) Freedom of Consenting Individuals to Have Transactional Sex Libertarians

Posted by: Transactional Sex Libertarians Love Abortion Uber Alles Libertarians at February 28, 2020 08:03 PM (+nWCH)

456 Libertarian is like communism. Sounds good, doesn't work. Not that can't work but there is a reason why governments just endlessly grow larger and more intrusive until collapse. There will always be a new generation of people willing to gamble on government robbing the "other" to pay for their bad decisions.

Until we become immortal authoritarian redistributionism must be discredited every generation.

Posted by: Shiggz at February 29, 2020 07:58 PM (8PxpI)

457 So it's what I've been suspecting for decades...The big L libertarians are being co-opted by the big S socialists just as the grabbed up and twisted the meaning of the word "anarchist" to mean something completely out of phase with it's original intent....It's their way of controlling the conversation so that you have to use their definitions...which are bullshit.

Posted by: C. Schwehr at March 01, 2020 08:21 AM (Ef/Em)

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Libertarians and Their Favorite Forms of Authoritarianism[BUCK THROCKMORTON]

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Libertarians and Their Favorite Forms of Authoritarianism
[BUCK THROCKMORTON]