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Changes and challenges to our healthcare system [KT]
Ten hospitals--three in Alabama and seven in Australia--have been hit with paralyzing ransomware attacks that are affecting their ability to take new patients . . .This is a relatively new health care challenge. But others have been developing for many, many years. WeirdDave knows more that I do about health care systems, and last night in the ONT, he posted this link on Trump's requirement that hospitals disclose their negotiated rates. He said:
If you want to know how to reform health care to bring down costs, this is where you start, right here, with absolute price transparency. There's no reason that people can't shop for health care like they do anything else. This is a good start, but it doesn't go nearly far enough. Baby steps.So, hospitals are suing Trump to keep their negotiated prices secret. Of course. Anyway, what would ordinary consumers do differently if they had access to the prices of their health care in advance? This piece, linked in J.J. Sefton's Morning Report a while ago, provides a few ideas. Why primary care costs a trillion dollars more than it should:
As a Direct Primary Care physician in Greeneville, Tennessee, who has not accepted health insurance for over 18 years, I have been in a unique position to see how insurance for nonemergency outpatient medical care not only increases our country's debt but also how it stifles our overall economy leading to reduced tax revenues from which to resolve this debt. Americans carry insurance for unexpected catastrophes such as car accidents, burned houses, and inpatient hospital care. We don't purchase it for routine car or home maintenance, so why do we have it for everyday medical care? The reason is, unlike other insurance, it is a pre-tax expense enjoyed primarily by large and medium-sized corporations that exert a large amount of political influence. Most people don't know that this tax exemption for employer-provided health insurance adds about $350 billion to our national debt each year while discriminating against the self-employed and employees of small businesses, many of whom can't afford health insurance yet were cruelly forced to pay ObamaCare penalties. The increasing number of families choosing membership in Christian health care sharing ministries don't benefit from this tax exemption. As a matter of justice both to future generations who will be responsible for this debt and to the many uninsured, Congress should eliminate this tax favor. While they are at it, Congress should remove the tangle of insurance regulations so companies will have to compete by offering consumers the opportunity to buy policies that make sense. When Americans pay directly for outpatient medical care at facilities that make their pricing transparent, they pay much less than they would at facilities that don't. Doing so -- I estimate -- would return to the economy as much as $1 trillion a year, mainly because insurance for routine health care makes it easier to conceal and inflate prices while charging for services that patients wouldn't necessarily allow to be done if they knew ahead of time that they would have to pay for them with their own money.Examples are given at the link. Remember that one other way to reduce the cost of medicine is to promote the idea that western medicine is colonialism. Improving the quality of health care Via Instapundit, I agree that there are too many alarms in hospitals. I feel like I'm in jail.
The commission has estimated that of the thousands of alarms going off throughout a hospital every day, an estimated 85% to 99% do not require clinical intervention. Staff, facing widespread "alarm fatigue" can miss critical alerts, leading to patient deaths. Patients may get anxious about fluctuations in heart rate or blood pressure that are perfectly normal, the commission said. And bed alarms, a recent arrival, can lead to immobility and dangerous loss of muscle mass when patients are terrified that any movement will set off the bleeps.This seems dumb. I was in the hospital for a couple of days recently. In addition to patient monitors, there were two or three extended hospital-wide alarms. Sort of disconcerting, since I did not know what they were about. I had some mobility once I got past the emergency room. I appreciated that. What do you think would improve the quality of care in hospitals? I vote that we don't make our hospitals too much more like Italy's. Get off Facebook for your health?
Holly Shakya, assistant professor at UC San Diego, and Yale professor Nicholas Christakis spent two years following 5,208 adults who are part of a Gallup long-term study. After asking permission, they monitored these subjects' Facebook use directly from Facebook, rather than asking subjects to report their own use. (People often don't realize how much time they spend on the social network.) And they checked in with subjects on their emotional and physical well-being, as well as their body-mass index (BMI), three times over the course of two years. "Overall, our results showed that, while real-world social networks were positively associated with overall well-being, the use of Facebook was negatively associated with overall well-being," the researchers wrote in a Harvard Business Review article. "These results were particularly strong for mental health; most measures of Facebook use in one year predicted a decrease in mental health in a later year." Yikes.O.K. These results are not unexpected. But I'm not sure the study design can lead to sweeping conclusions that correlation = causation here. Maybe people who are feeling mentally unhealthy turn to Facebook more than other people, for example. But there are reasons I don't have Facebook on my phone.
Why is too much Facebook bad for your emotional health? Previous research has shown that the social network creates a sort of false peer pressure. Since most people are cautious about posting negative or upsetting experiences on Facebook, the social network creates a misleading environment where everyone seems to be doing better and having more fun than you are. As the researchers put it, "Exposure to the carefully curated images from others' lives leads to negative self-comparison."Well, that makes sense. Facebook also doesn't show the effort that goes into many meatspace social interactions. Like the little community Christmas celebration I have been involved with recently. A little group of adults were recruited to sing, and we practiced a few times, got costumes together, and coordinated with the committee running the celebration. Meanwhile, other folks arranged entries for a parade, brought a tree from the mountains - taller than the one at Rockefeller Center - stabilized it in the middle of the road and decorated it, brought snow from the mountains for the kids to play in, got people to provide food and activities, brought in a live camel and dwarf reindeer, and roasted chestnuts on an open fire. Little of the planning and work that went into the event is evident in the Facebook photos of the final fun phase. You see the crowd and the lights. Not the dirty trucks. The dirty truck phase is more personal than the crowd phase for most participants. Sometimes there are fun or rewarding aspects to the dirty truck phase, but they seldom get memorialized on Facebook.
This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
The requirement to provide pricing is long overdue. Wish I'd had that available before my husband spent 28 days in the hospital a couple of years ago.
Posted by: Ever at December 07, 2019 11:24 AM (R0z7P)
2
First?
Posted by: skywch at December 07, 2019 11:24 AM (IWvy/)
3
Oh well
Posted by: skywch at December 07, 2019 11:25 AM (IWvy/)
4
Scammers don't like being called scammers. Gives them the sadz.
Posted by: klaftern at December 07, 2019 11:25 AM (RuIsu)
5
I find it amazing that the can require pricing and information for a burger but the medical industry seems to think it should not post this information.
Posted by: Big V at December 07, 2019 11:25 AM (B06Zw)
6
So, where is everyone?
Posted by: Ever at December 07, 2019 11:25 AM (R0z7P)
7
OK, now I see you.
Posted by: Ever at December 07, 2019 11:26 AM (R0z7P)
8
First thing? Get the government out of healthcare.
I worked I healthcare IT for a number of years. The government forced Doctors to go to computer based record systems, but then did not give any format for medical records themselves.
Which is why the dream of having a digital copy of your medical record to have with you, and the dream of easily being able to send you entire record to a specialist, has not happened.
I worked I healthcare IT for a number of years. The government forced Doctors to go to computer based record systems, but then did not give any format for medical records themselves.
Which is why the dream of having a digital copy of your medical record to have with you, and the dream of easily being able to send you entire record to a specialist, has not happened.
Posted by: Don Quixote USN, Ret. at December 07, 2019 11:26 AM (NgKpN)
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 07, 2019 11:28 AM (Ct55T)
10
transparent pricing does not make a helluva lot of sense when there are about a million medical codes for procedures/equipment/supplies you cannot even pronounce.
And how are you going to "shop" for something when you have no idea what is wrong with you and/or what combination of those million codes will be needed?
This is silliness.
And how are you going to "shop" for something when you have no idea what is wrong with you and/or what combination of those million codes will be needed?
This is silliness.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:31 AM (438dO)
11
I never did see anyone calculate what Obamacare (that is still law waiting on the next D president) actually cost.
We know the estimated tax dollars cost to the government, but not the cost of increasing premiums, accounting, deductibles, etc.
I'm certain it's well over $4T a decade.
And we're exactly where we were, and the exact same number of people remain uninsured.
We know the estimated tax dollars cost to the government, but not the cost of increasing premiums, accounting, deductibles, etc.
I'm certain it's well over $4T a decade.
And we're exactly where we were, and the exact same number of people remain uninsured.
Posted by: Moron Robbie is a bridge at December 07, 2019 11:32 AM (0GvUH)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 11:33 AM (7rVsF)
13
The requirement to provide pricing is long overdue. Wish I'd had that available before my husband spent 28 days in the hospital a couple of years ago.
Posted by: Ever
............
And if you had that available? You would have done what?
Pulled him out of that hospital and on to another and another hospital for each procedure to find the best price?
Posted by: Ever
............
And if you had that available? You would have done what?
Pulled him out of that hospital and on to another and another hospital for each procedure to find the best price?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:33 AM (438dO)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 11:35 AM (7rVsF)
15
And if you had that available? You would have done what?
Pulled him out of that hospital and on to another and another hospital for each procedure to find the best price?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:33 AM (438dO)
The thing with transparency is that different people get charged different prices within the same facility.
Then you have the docs that refer everyone within their circle of friends.
Pulled him out of that hospital and on to another and another hospital for each procedure to find the best price?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:33 AM (438dO)
The thing with transparency is that different people get charged different prices within the same facility.
Then you have the docs that refer everyone within their circle of friends.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:35 AM (HALdu)
16
The "hospitalists" took full advantage of those patients whose primary physician was not local and also had sufficient insurance (not Medicare.) Those creeps made sure they glanced at my husband's chart or (on weekends) sent their nurse practitioner by for a $300 "visit" every day. And, I learned, they refused to accept Aetna, or any other insurer's, customary and reasonable rate. To add insult to injury, after I paid these blood-suckers almost $7000 oop, they tried to double bill me for visits I had paid 6 months earlier, threatening me w legal action. Obviously, they made a practice of bullying sick ppl. These are medical groups that need to provide transparency.
Posted by: Ever at December 07, 2019 11:37 AM (R0z7P)
17
The thing with transparency is that different people get charged different prices within the same facility.
Then you have the docs that refer everyone within their circle of friends.
Posted by: not so
.............
Yes.. different insurers negotiate different prices.
How does knowing what the price to Blue Cross members help you when you have Humana? Or Medicare?
The thing with transparency is that different people get charged different prices within the same facility.
Then you have the docs that refer everyone within their circle of friends.
Posted by: not so
.............
Yes.. different insurers negotiate different prices.
How does knowing what the price to Blue Cross members help you when you have Humana? Or Medicare?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:39 AM (438dO)
Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 11:40 AM (axyOa)
19
hiya
Posted by: JT at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (arJlL)
20
One of the reasons they don't want disclosure is that there has always been a measure of negotiation. A friend of mine had an epileptic seizure, and had to be transported to the hospital. Not having insurance, but some money, he got the bill of a bunch of bucks and told them he would pay, what he thought fair for both parties. Now this was, say 5K billed and he offered half. They accepted.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (C1Lsn)
21
Yes.. different insurers negotiate different prices.
How does knowing what the price to Blue Cross members help you when you have Humana? Or Medicare?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:39 AM (438dO)
Yes, yes, yes, but transparency is not going to hurt anything so what is the argument against transparency?
How does knowing what the price to Blue Cross members help you when you have Humana? Or Medicare?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:39 AM (438dO)
Yes, yes, yes, but transparency is not going to hurt anything so what is the argument against transparency?
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
22
Hospitals and doctors have no say and are also bound by the Medicare fee schedule and State Workers Comp fee schedules.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (2DOZq)
23
The best piece of advice this moron learned was don't pay any bills for a couple of months. They are going to be adjusted and readjusted a half dozen times before they know what something cost.
Posted by: Moron Robbie is a bridge at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (0GvUH)
24
If you are bored and want to watch an excellent Moroniffic movie I highly recommend Good Boys.
It is funny as hell.
The Vietnam war movie Tigerland is also really good. I cannot believe it flew under my radar for a couple of decades.
Stay Turgid, Morons.
It is funny as hell.
The Vietnam war movie Tigerland is also really good. I cannot believe it flew under my radar for a couple of decades.
Stay Turgid, Morons.
Posted by: SnakePlizzken at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (nhOIp)
25
I get a kick out of Facebook exhibitionists who post carefully curated scenes from their incredible lives, obsessively. I never tire of seeing pics of the meals they ordered in a restaurant orders and the exotic places they go for their vacations.
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (XVuno)
26
Now this was, say 5K billed and he offered half. They accepted.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (C1Lsn)
-
Yep. There was a hospital franchise in NC that openly says they'll give cash payers a 60% discount. Not sure if that is the case post Obamacare.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (C1Lsn)
-
Yep. There was a hospital franchise in NC that openly says they'll give cash payers a 60% discount. Not sure if that is the case post Obamacare.
Posted by: Moron Robbie is a bridge at December 07, 2019 11:43 AM (0GvUH)
27
I never did see anyone calculate what Obamacare (that is still law waiting on the next D president) actually cost.
______
And beyond the financial cost, the incalculable (opportunity?) cost that is immeasurable: the unnecessarily induced increased pain and suffering, bankruptcies (apparently most now are owing to medical bills), and premature deaths of those unable to afford or access the f*cked-up system.
This includes the loss of physicians who simply retired out of frustration or, like my wonderful doctor, went into private practice with a concierge service (24x7 access to a small, finite group of patients).
And how many future doctors decided to screw medical school -- not wanting to eventually stay on the trajectory to eventually becoming government employees with low/controlled pay in a "single-payer" utopia -- opting instead for law school, because Lord knows we need more lawyers?
Oh well, we can always import more third-world doctors ...
BTW, there was another excellent WierdDave link and read from a couple nights ago about "concurrent surgeries" (one doctor performing surgeries on two different patients at the same or in overlapping scheduled times) from the point-of-view of a former MLB pitcher victimized by this practice and hoping to enlighten the rest of us:
https://tinyurl.com/rzpsepd
I never did see anyone calculate what Obamacare (that is still law waiting on the next D president) actually cost.
______
And beyond the financial cost, the incalculable (opportunity?) cost that is immeasurable: the unnecessarily induced increased pain and suffering, bankruptcies (apparently most now are owing to medical bills), and premature deaths of those unable to afford or access the f*cked-up system.
This includes the loss of physicians who simply retired out of frustration or, like my wonderful doctor, went into private practice with a concierge service (24x7 access to a small, finite group of patients).
And how many future doctors decided to screw medical school -- not wanting to eventually stay on the trajectory to eventually becoming government employees with low/controlled pay in a "single-payer" utopia -- opting instead for law school, because Lord knows we need more lawyers?
Oh well, we can always import more third-world doctors ...
BTW, there was another excellent WierdDave link and read from a couple nights ago about "concurrent surgeries" (one doctor performing surgeries on two different patients at the same or in overlapping scheduled times) from the point-of-view of a former MLB pitcher victimized by this practice and hoping to enlighten the rest of us:
https://tinyurl.com/rzpsepd
Posted by: ShainS at December 07, 2019 11:44 AM (WqPYg)
28
I had a back surgery hospital bill for one of my WC claimants in the amount in excess of 400k. The audited payment was 63k.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:45 AM (2DOZq)
29
20 One of the reasons they don't want disclosure is that there has always been a measure of negotiation. A friend of mine had an epileptic seizure, and had to be transported to the hospital. Not having insurance, but some money, he got the bill of a bunch of bucks and told them he would pay, what he thought fair for both parties. Now this was, say 5K billed and he offered half. They accepted.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (C1Lsn)
Paying cash precludes hours and hours of expensive administrative costs for the hospital. They will negotiate for cash.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (C1Lsn)
Paying cash precludes hours and hours of expensive administrative costs for the hospital. They will negotiate for cash.
Posted by: Sooner at December 07, 2019 11:45 AM (Fs5vw)
30
Someone already imported the Syrian doctors into Cleveland.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:46 AM (HALdu)
31
13 Chi-town
I would have negotiated w the hospital on any requirement for a "hospitalist." My husband had multiple specialists. There was no need to throw this group in the mix. Plus, the hospital was a preferred provider. No one warned me these guys weren't. Everyone of the specialists accepted Aetna and we had small oop payments. Why weren't we warned about the anomaly w this group? I think this is what needs to be revealed.
I would have negotiated w the hospital on any requirement for a "hospitalist." My husband had multiple specialists. There was no need to throw this group in the mix. Plus, the hospital was a preferred provider. No one warned me these guys weren't. Everyone of the specialists accepted Aetna and we had small oop payments. Why weren't we warned about the anomaly w this group? I think this is what needs to be revealed.
Posted by: Ever at December 07, 2019 11:46 AM (R0z7P)
32
To begin with, the insurance model requires costs for numerous levels of bureaucracy be paid for with your money.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 11:47 AM (oVJmc)
33
The little girls in meatspace video are adorbs!
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 11:48 AM (O/X1S)
34
I had a back surgery hospital bill for one of my WC claimants in the amount in excess of 400k. The audited payment was 63k.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:45 AM (2DOZq)
Wow
I had a back surgery hospital bill for one of my WC claimants in the amount in excess of 400k. The audited payment was 63k.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:45 AM (2DOZq)
Wow
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 11:49 AM (unlwL)
35
The other issue no one talks about is how little Medicaid and Medicare pay/reimburse for services.
Altho if the pricing structure changes then the reimbursement structure should/could then be addressed so there aren't such big deficits.
Altho if the pricing structure changes then the reimbursement structure should/could then be addressed so there aren't such big deficits.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 11:50 AM (a4qVe)
36
Way back when- I was working out-of-town, and my wife needed emergency surgery. She didn't have our insurance info; they invoiced us immediately ~ $10K. After I provided the info, we received a 'revised' invoice for $2300.
Posted by: Beefy Meatball at December 07, 2019 11:51 AM (s87W2)
37
Ever - I'm not saying hospitals are not blood sucking rats. They are.
But when you are sick, you are not in a place to go "shopping" for care.
I have told y'all my plan for solving this several times. Here it is again:
A 1.5% payroll tax (matched) all goes into a catastrophic pool. Every American is in this pool.
This covers any major medical procedure/hospitalization/life saving drugs after you pass a certain out of pocket threshold... Let's say that is $10,000 per year.
You are responsible for $0.00 to $10,000.
You can get insurance to cover that gap, or your employer might.
All hospitals are required to take any and all patients and the services will be paid for using current Medicare formularies and negotiated prices.
Making patients responsible for their own every day medicare care will bring down prices, because those are the things you can "shop" for.
Want a cheap primary care visit for your kid's ear infection? Walgreens minute clinic offers a visit for $25 vs $50 for your doctor..
And maybe your gap insurance provider will cover some of that as an enticement to become a member.
We need to change the way we think about medical care and coverage in this country.
But when you are sick, you are not in a place to go "shopping" for care.
I have told y'all my plan for solving this several times. Here it is again:
A 1.5% payroll tax (matched) all goes into a catastrophic pool. Every American is in this pool.
This covers any major medical procedure/hospitalization/life saving drugs after you pass a certain out of pocket threshold... Let's say that is $10,000 per year.
You are responsible for $0.00 to $10,000.
You can get insurance to cover that gap, or your employer might.
All hospitals are required to take any and all patients and the services will be paid for using current Medicare formularies and negotiated prices.
Making patients responsible for their own every day medicare care will bring down prices, because those are the things you can "shop" for.
Want a cheap primary care visit for your kid's ear infection? Walgreens minute clinic offers a visit for $25 vs $50 for your doctor..
And maybe your gap insurance provider will cover some of that as an enticement to become a member.
We need to change the way we think about medical care and coverage in this country.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:51 AM (438dO)
38
Hit by fires and droughts, California voters call 'climate change' top priority...
-
I guess Ron White was right; you can't fix stupid.
-
I guess Ron White was right; you can't fix stupid.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (+y/Ru)
39
I heard a new term this week: Pharmacoeconomics.
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (hku12)
40
I get a kick out of Facebook exhibitionists who post carefully curated scenes from their incredible lives, obsessively. I never tire of seeing pics of the meals they ordered in a restaurant orders and the exotic places they go for their vacations.
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (XVuno)
I'm with you on this.
So you ordered a hamburger and took a picture of it and felt the need to show everyone? Whoopee!
Who cares?
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (XVuno)
I'm with you on this.
So you ordered a hamburger and took a picture of it and felt the need to show everyone? Whoopee!
Who cares?
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 11:53 AM (CqE5x)
41
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 11:50 AM (a4qVe
Yes very low relatively speaking. Most state Workers Comp fee schedules are based on Medicare fee schedules. For example, in Texas , hospital charges under WC fee schedule can be 145% of the Medicare fee. That shows how low Medicare reimbursements can be.
Yes very low relatively speaking. Most state Workers Comp fee schedules are based on Medicare fee schedules. For example, in Texas , hospital charges under WC fee schedule can be 145% of the Medicare fee. That shows how low Medicare reimbursements can be.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:54 AM (2DOZq)
42
36 Way back when- I was working out-of-town, and my wife needed emergency surgery. She didn't have our insurance info; they invoiced us immediately ~ $10K. After I provided the info, we received a 'revised' invoice for $2300.
Posted by: Beefy Meatball at December 07, 2019 11:51 AM (s87W2)
Looks bad, but you can thank Tax law for that.
Not having insurance, they never expected you to actually PAY for the services, so the cost would end up being a loss, ie, a Tax write off.
And why write off $2300 when you can write off $10,000?
Posted by: Beefy Meatball at December 07, 2019 11:51 AM (s87W2)
Looks bad, but you can thank Tax law for that.
Not having insurance, they never expected you to actually PAY for the services, so the cost would end up being a loss, ie, a Tax write off.
And why write off $2300 when you can write off $10,000?
Posted by: Don Quixote USN, Ret. at December 07, 2019 11:55 AM (NgKpN)
43
Try reading thru a bill from a hospital after surgery. Dad had lung surgery. OMG, it's insane what they charge for an aspirin or box of kleenex. And as said above, wtf is a hospitalist? It's all bs to subsidize medicaid and illegals on your back. Thankfully, dad had great supplemental at a reasonable price.
Although, try cancelling that even with a death cert.
Although, try cancelling that even with a death cert.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 11:55 AM (O/X1S)
44
"Meatspace" sounds.....pornographic?
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 11:55 AM (CqE5x)
45
Not having insurance, they never expected you to actually PAY for the services, so the cost would end up being a loss, ie, a Tax write off.
They might write that off but the sell it to a bill collector that will terrorize you to pay.
They might write that off but the sell it to a bill collector that will terrorize you to pay.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 11:56 AM (a4qVe)
46
3 Chi-town
I would have negotiated w the hospital on any requirement for a "hospitalist." My husband had multiple specialists. There was no need to throw this group in the mix. Plus, the hospital was a preferred provider. No one warned me these guys weren't. Everyone of the specialists accepted Aetna and we had small oop payments. Why weren't we warned about the anomaly w this group? I think this is what needs to be revealed.
Posted by: Ever
.....
Both my wife and I have experienced the same thing.
We got bills from anesthesiologists, etc. who were billed separately from the hospital for an ER visit!
Our hospital is a preferred provider. All the other bills went through the hospital and through BC/BS.. these guys didn't. I raised holy hell with them.
My point though is you are not in a position the shop prices in that situation.
I think legislation banning this kind of outside services completely would be more appropriate.
I would have negotiated w the hospital on any requirement for a "hospitalist." My husband had multiple specialists. There was no need to throw this group in the mix. Plus, the hospital was a preferred provider. No one warned me these guys weren't. Everyone of the specialists accepted Aetna and we had small oop payments. Why weren't we warned about the anomaly w this group? I think this is what needs to be revealed.
Posted by: Ever
.....
Both my wife and I have experienced the same thing.
We got bills from anesthesiologists, etc. who were billed separately from the hospital for an ER visit!
Our hospital is a preferred provider. All the other bills went through the hospital and through BC/BS.. these guys didn't. I raised holy hell with them.
My point though is you are not in a position the shop prices in that situation.
I think legislation banning this kind of outside services completely would be more appropriate.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 11:56 AM (438dO)
47
willowed
SUCCESS! ( my plumbing leak)
Banning voter laws is only step 1 ( second is getting all comers voting rights, third is popular vote wins.
Count on it
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 11:47 AM
SUCCESS! ( my plumbing leak)
Banning voter laws is only step 1 ( second is getting all comers voting rights, third is popular vote wins.
Count on it
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 11:47 AM
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 11:57 AM (ZCEU2)
48
Quick way to improve healthcare and reduce costs.
Have ICE routinely visit hospitals and arrest/deport illegals.
In my last few trips to the ER I have seen it is full of overdoes/detoxes of which at least half of whom don't speak English...
Have ICE routinely visit hospitals and arrest/deport illegals.
In my last few trips to the ER I have seen it is full of overdoes/detoxes of which at least half of whom don't speak English...
Posted by: 18-1 at December 07, 2019 11:58 AM (WdocV)
49
Chi town, I think there was some sort of legislation the president signed that addresses this exact thing.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 11:58 AM (a4qVe)
50
Banning voter laws is only step 1 ( second is getting all comers voting rights, third is popular vote wins.
***
We really need to do the other way.
No voting if you aren't fully an adult - ie you aren't on your parents insurance.
***
We really need to do the other way.
No voting if you aren't fully an adult - ie you aren't on your parents insurance.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 07, 2019 11:59 AM (WdocV)
51
Here's something simple and down to earth. I needed a refill on some BP meds, and didn't want the pain of driving 45 miles to the VA. I go to the walk in clinic, tell the doc I've been on the stuff for 14 years. She gives me a quick vitals, writes the script and wants to charge me 250 bucks, and I say Outrageous. Tell them I have no insurance other than the VA. I've waived medicare part B. I offer 100 bucks, from wallet, and they take it.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 11:59 AM (C1Lsn)
52
I am playing catch-up on the health care price discussion, for apologies if anyone has mentioned these points.
1. It's not just about unforeseen/emergency care. Mrs IMG and I have taken into account planned and anticipated care during open enrollment for the past 10 years.
2. Younger couples have this too, with respect to having children.
3. One thing that becomes visible is comparing total costs of various health plans you can get either through an employer or privately (like from WeirdDave). I think this is a big deal to insurance companies.
4. It could well affect who you choose as a provider, since many are tightly coupled to particular facilities or hospital services. I think this is a big deal to hospitals.
What we are likely never to know is how much of your hospital bill is really a tax to provide indigent care. I suspect it is a goodly portion.
1. It's not just about unforeseen/emergency care. Mrs IMG and I have taken into account planned and anticipated care during open enrollment for the past 10 years.
2. Younger couples have this too, with respect to having children.
3. One thing that becomes visible is comparing total costs of various health plans you can get either through an employer or privately (like from WeirdDave). I think this is a big deal to insurance companies.
4. It could well affect who you choose as a provider, since many are tightly coupled to particular facilities or hospital services. I think this is a big deal to hospitals.
What we are likely never to know is how much of your hospital bill is really a tax to provide indigent care. I suspect it is a goodly portion.
Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at December 07, 2019 12:00 PM (di1hb)
53
To be fair, using Hospitals as doctors and for emergencies by illegals ,legal immigrants, and indigents is expensive for these hospitals.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:00 PM (frty6)
54
Reviewing medical bills for appropriate charges and proper billing is my least favorite thing to do. My entire job is about someone trying to put something over you. It's made me cynical to say the least.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 12:00 PM (2DOZq)
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 12:01 PM (Z+IKu)
56
What we are likely never to know is how much of your hospital bill is
really a tax to provide indigent care. I suspect it is a goodly portion.
***
Health care costs have dramatically exceeded inflation. Part of that is increased bureaucracy and lack of cost transparency....but most of it is giving "free" healthcare to a larger and larger group of people.
really a tax to provide indigent care. I suspect it is a goodly portion.
***
Health care costs have dramatically exceeded inflation. Part of that is increased bureaucracy and lack of cost transparency....but most of it is giving "free" healthcare to a larger and larger group of people.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 07, 2019 12:01 PM (WdocV)
57
18-1 that's because they everybody knows that you can't be turned away from the ER in this country. They go to th ER and get free room and board and are back to the same crap when they are discharged.
There was an article a year or so ago that tracked a couple of homeless people and their abuse of ER services. The total charges were in the millions. Even if you scale back to 20% of the cost it was still at least 6 figures.
There was an article a year or so ago that tracked a couple of homeless people and their abuse of ER services. The total charges were in the millions. Even if you scale back to 20% of the cost it was still at least 6 figures.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 12:02 PM (a4qVe)
58
The idea that healthcare has to be "free" is really weird. We don't provide "free" food, housing, or clothing to the working/middle class....so why would health care be different?
Of course we give all this stuff to the dependent/illegal alien class.
Of course we give all this stuff to the dependent/illegal alien class.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (WdocV)
59
I get a kick out of Facebook exhibitionists who post carefully curated scenes from their incredible lives, obsessively. I never tire of seeing pics of the meals they ordered in a restaurant orders and the exotic places they go for their vacations.
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (XVuno)
I'm with you on this.
So you ordered a hamburger and took a picture of it and felt the need to show everyone? Whoopee!
Who cares?
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 11:53 AM (CqE5x)
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations, and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
It's like the modern version of those xeroxed annual newsletters that people used to send out with their Christmas cards, only now it's year-round.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at December 07, 2019 11:42 AM (XVuno)
I'm with you on this.
So you ordered a hamburger and took a picture of it and felt the need to show everyone? Whoopee!
Who cares?
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 11:53 AM (CqE5x)
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations, and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
60
As usual, the problem with the system isn't capitalism, it's that capitalism isn't really being tried. Government either puts its thumb on the scale or refuses to act when the healthcare industry screws its customers.
Posted by: Matt_SE at December 07, 2019 12:05 PM (+WSKI)
61
"Meatspace" sounds.....pornographic?
-
Meatspace in a Kentucky courtroom.
https://dailym.ai/2Rx0Uqa
Her gavel wasn't the only thing she was banging.
-
Meatspace in a Kentucky courtroom.
https://dailym.ai/2Rx0Uqa
Her gavel wasn't the only thing she was banging.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 12:05 PM (+y/Ru)
62
great article !
heathcare insurance gets my BP boiling
and could you add a link for thge fb thing? thx
heathcare insurance gets my BP boiling
and could you add a link for thge fb thing? thx
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 12:07 PM (G546f)
63
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations,
and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my
life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
I think it's also part of the reality TV culture. People think they are famous because people online can see what they are doing. That's why so many people have a YouTube channel of them just talking into a camera.
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations,
and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my
life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
I think it's also part of the reality TV culture. People think they are famous because people online can see what they are doing. That's why so many people have a YouTube channel of them just talking into a camera.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 12:07 PM (unlwL)
64
Speaking of pharmaceuticals this week I heard radio ads for a drug that prevents a person from contracting AIDS. They mentioned that it was possible to get help paying for the drug.
Somehow I'm managing to not contract AIDS just fine with no drugs or extra cost. What's my secret?
Somehow I'm managing to not contract AIDS just fine with no drugs or extra cost. What's my secret?
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:07 PM (87gB3)
65
If my memory is correct, hospitals were all in on Obummer Care, thought it was a a force to only go to them.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:08 PM (ZCEU2)
66
Banksters own Corps
Corps deploy Lobbyists
Lobbyists buy Congressional sockpuppets
Sockpuppets safeguard Corps / Banksters
Each and every time that a healthcare entity fails to disclose pricing for services or materiele, it is a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.
EACH. F'IN. TIME. Check out penalties per event
Of course they'll fight BadOrangeMan tooth n nail
Corps deploy Lobbyists
Lobbyists buy Congressional sockpuppets
Sockpuppets safeguard Corps / Banksters
Each and every time that a healthcare entity fails to disclose pricing for services or materiele, it is a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.
EACH. F'IN. TIME. Check out penalties per event
Of course they'll fight BadOrangeMan tooth n nail
Posted by: OD at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (f6tGE)
67
Yes, yes, yes, but transparency is not going to hurt anything so what is the argument against transparency?
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (1glZx)
68
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations, and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (P0nip)
69
for blood tests I know I need I go to online discount sites, they send me a lab order I take to the local.LabCorp or Quest Labs, they email me results.
CBC is like $9 + $5 processing
CBC is like $9 + $5 processing
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 12:10 PM (G546f)
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:10 PM (O/X1S)
71
Last laugh.
Charles V Payne @cvpayne
So, let me get this straight. Canada lost 71,000 jobs last month (equvilent to US losing 500,000) and Paris is shutdown from massive strike over awful economy and governance. But Trudeau n Macron found time to snicker at Trump?
Really?
Charles V Payne @cvpayne
So, let me get this straight. Canada lost 71,000 jobs last month (equvilent to US losing 500,000) and Paris is shutdown from massive strike over awful economy and governance. But Trudeau n Macron found time to snicker at Trump?
Really?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 12:11 PM (+y/Ru)
72
There's a gin commercial going around twatter that appears to feature the gal from the infamous Peleton commercial out drinking with her pals, celebrating new beginnings. People are yaaaas qween perfect! but there was a kid mixed in there somewhere too so...I dunno, really mission accomplished?
Posted by: jhawk90 at December 07, 2019 12:12 PM (xXPpO)
73
While reviewing the bills after my son was born, I noticed a very specific charge appeared twice. It was several hundred dollars, so I contacted the hospital's billing department to get the duplicate removed from the bill.
I was told that the charge was covered under my insurance, so I didn't have to worry about it. The billing person couldn't understand why I insisted that the duplicate charge be removed since I didn't have to pay for it.
It was a real eyeopener for me.
I was told that the charge was covered under my insurance, so I didn't have to worry about it. The billing person couldn't understand why I insisted that the duplicate charge be removed since I didn't have to pay for it.
It was a real eyeopener for me.
Posted by: squeakywheel at December 07, 2019 12:12 PM (cBpq4)
74
"There's no reason that people can't shop for health care like they do anything else."
this goes way back to a discussion here, about a "free market" always providing the "right price". To get to that point, we need "Efficient Market Theory" to be practiced. The price will ALWAYS be right, automatically -- In THEORY. The elements needed to approach RightPrice in PRACTICE, are Efficiency and MarketPlace (and many other regulatory/tax/border/fraud elements we can ignore for now).
Efficiency means all motivated buyers and sellers have instant access to market forces info ... which for health care means transparency into what everyone else is paying (e.g. why is there a gouge price for those paying cash, but an insurance company gets half price? ... or why do drugs cost less in other countries?)
For medical needs, government is more heavily involved since (for example) border hospitals were forced to care for illegals from Mexico, who show up just for the free health care (stories of ambulances coming across just to drop off patients burdening their own care system).
Hospitals then got inventive on how to shift that forced cost burden to the poor American soul that showed up without insurance, and BigGov accepted the "fraud" since it acted as a (covert) tax on middle America, and the politician could bray about how he cares for the little guy. (Dem candidates all raised their hands to affirm they would supply free health care for the whole hemisphere if they just sneak over our border)
The other half of efficient market theory is the Market ... we have that, many motivated buyers and sellers. BUT some buyers walk in for free, some have golden plans. The self employed, or part time worker without insurance, both get pushed into a different inflated price category where they get fleeced, since they don't have their own lobbyist to force fair treatment.
Those without a lobbyist are not allowed to use the pricing mechanism where all (Americans) are in one open market. They are locked out and forced into the manipulated price zone, not allowed market forced pricing, often not even allowed to see the price till the bill arrives. It is lobbyist forced gouging, where those that bribe DC goons get special treatment outside the "open market". That is not efficient, nor is it an open market, it is mostly the DC Cartel business as usual.
this goes way back to a discussion here, about a "free market" always providing the "right price". To get to that point, we need "Efficient Market Theory" to be practiced. The price will ALWAYS be right, automatically -- In THEORY. The elements needed to approach RightPrice in PRACTICE, are Efficiency and MarketPlace (and many other regulatory/tax/border/fraud elements we can ignore for now).
Efficiency means all motivated buyers and sellers have instant access to market forces info ... which for health care means transparency into what everyone else is paying (e.g. why is there a gouge price for those paying cash, but an insurance company gets half price? ... or why do drugs cost less in other countries?)
For medical needs, government is more heavily involved since (for example) border hospitals were forced to care for illegals from Mexico, who show up just for the free health care (stories of ambulances coming across just to drop off patients burdening their own care system).
Hospitals then got inventive on how to shift that forced cost burden to the poor American soul that showed up without insurance, and BigGov accepted the "fraud" since it acted as a (covert) tax on middle America, and the politician could bray about how he cares for the little guy. (Dem candidates all raised their hands to affirm they would supply free health care for the whole hemisphere if they just sneak over our border)
The other half of efficient market theory is the Market ... we have that, many motivated buyers and sellers. BUT some buyers walk in for free, some have golden plans. The self employed, or part time worker without insurance, both get pushed into a different inflated price category where they get fleeced, since they don't have their own lobbyist to force fair treatment.
Those without a lobbyist are not allowed to use the pricing mechanism where all (Americans) are in one open market. They are locked out and forced into the manipulated price zone, not allowed market forced pricing, often not even allowed to see the price till the bill arrives. It is lobbyist forced gouging, where those that bribe DC goons get special treatment outside the "open market". That is not efficient, nor is it an open market, it is mostly the DC Cartel business as usual.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 12:12 PM (Cus5s)
75
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations,
and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
I think it's also part of the reality TV culture. People think they are famous because people online can see what they are doing. That's why so many people have a YouTube channel of them just talking into a camera.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 12:07 PM (unlwL)
Some a$$holes just talking to a camera are better than others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on2duCFAJ7Q
and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
I think it's also part of the reality TV culture. People think they are famous because people online can see what they are doing. That's why so many people have a YouTube channel of them just talking into a camera.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 12:07 PM (unlwL)
Some a$$holes just talking to a camera are better than others:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on2duCFAJ7Q
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:15 PM (hku12)
76
For example, in Texas , hospital charges under WC
fee schedule can be 145% of the Medicare fee. That shows how low
Medicare reimbursements can be.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:54 AM (2DOZq)
Medicare pays less than the actual cost of the procedure, and the difference is carried by making up from the billing on the non medicare procedures.
Also, I am told by people in the business that the documentation required for reimbursement is a nightmare and adds additional costs to the provider, which is also not reimbursed.
You can push prices very low if you compel a provider to perform services for much less than cost.
Shoot, I could paint a house for $100 at gunpoint. Think of the savings for the homeowner!
fee schedule can be 145% of the Medicare fee. That shows how low
Medicare reimbursements can be.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 11:54 AM (2DOZq)
Medicare pays less than the actual cost of the procedure, and the difference is carried by making up from the billing on the non medicare procedures.
Also, I am told by people in the business that the documentation required for reimbursement is a nightmare and adds additional costs to the provider, which is also not reimbursed.
You can push prices very low if you compel a provider to perform services for much less than cost.
Shoot, I could paint a house for $100 at gunpoint. Think of the savings for the homeowner!
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:16 PM (1glZx)
77
Capitalism is in effect for elective procedures. Admittedly the dynamic of it being elective instead of medically necessary/emergency does make it easier to accomplish.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 12:16 PM (2DOZq)
78
Yes, yes, yes, but transparency is not going to hurt anything so what is the argument against transparency?
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (1glZx)
I have no complaints about the doctors or the system from a personal perspective what I want is anything that is going to make the system more effective for everyone.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (1glZx)
I have no complaints about the doctors or the system from a personal perspective what I want is anything that is going to make the system more effective for everyone.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 12:17 PM (HALdu)
79
Know anybody that sells medical equipment? I do. They make a killing and live better than doctors. It's a racket.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:17 PM (P0nip)
80
Heh, BurtTC. First thing I did when I bought a new laptop a few years ago was cover the camera. Same with the phone I was forced to replace last weekend.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (O/X1S)
81
I'm in a healthcare cost-sharing ministry. I picked Samaritan Ministries because there is no requirement that I apply for Medicaid, unlike some of the others.
Recently, they very apologetically announced a $7 monthly increase after three years of no increases.
We had health insurance during Obama's administration and were getting increases in monthly premiums of several hundred dollars every year. We eventually got priced out of the market.
A nice thing about Samaritan is I don't have to worry about whether providers are in a network. I go wherever I want.
Recently, they very apologetically announced a $7 monthly increase after three years of no increases.
We had health insurance during Obama's administration and were getting increases in monthly premiums of several hundred dollars every year. We eventually got priced out of the market.
A nice thing about Samaritan is I don't have to worry about whether providers are in a network. I go wherever I want.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (87gB3)
82
It is a good baby step, and I admittedly don't know enough about it, but I think the special interests are so dominant in politics that the only other baby step I can see making it is allowing nationwide sales of all types of insurance.
Plus people are very protective of their work insurance. Even if you explained to them that they may be paying more than they would overall*, most would want to keep it they way they have it.
*This wouldn't be true for everybody of course.
Plus people are very protective of their work insurance. Even if you explained to them that they may be paying more than they would overall*, most would want to keep it they way they have it.
*This wouldn't be true for everybody of course.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2019 12:19 PM (r+sAi)
83
Know anybody that sells medical equipment? I do. They make a killing and live better than doctors. It's a racket.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:17 PM (P0nip)
Recently a neurosurgeon in South Dakota arrested for fraud for performing hundreds of unnecessary surgeries where he used a medical device he invented and charged the government. He made millions also from pushing others to unnecessarily use his medical device.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:17 PM (P0nip)
Recently a neurosurgeon in South Dakota arrested for fraud for performing hundreds of unnecessary surgeries where he used a medical device he invented and charged the government. He made millions also from pushing others to unnecessarily use his medical device.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 12:23 PM (2DOZq)
84
If anyone is interested, the Accad and Koka report talks about Direct Patient Care and self insurance . . . and an amazing number of other things
https://accadandkoka.com
https://accadandkoka.com
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:23 PM (1glZx)
85
80 Heh, BurtTC. First thing I did when I bought a new laptop a few years ago was cover the camera. Same with the phone I was forced to replace last weekend.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (O/X1S)
I bought some stickers especially designed for that. I wanted something that wouldn't leave sticky residue.
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (O/X1S)
I bought some stickers especially designed for that. I wanted something that wouldn't leave sticky residue.
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (87gB3)
86
When my sister was pregnant with her first child 28 years ago, she called the hospital that she was going to deliver at, said she had Blue Cross, and they gave her a price of $3,600 for her stay.
Then she called them back a week later, said she was self-pay, and they quoted her $1,800.
Granted, this was a long time ago as you can tell by the costs, but double?
Then she called them back a week later, said she was self-pay, and they quoted her $1,800.
Granted, this was a long time ago as you can tell by the costs, but double?
Posted by: Marybeth at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (4pK1/)
87
KT routinely delivers an awesome weekly rant.
Thank you.
Congress should eliminate this tax favor. While they are at it, Congress should remove the tangle of insurance regulations so companies will have to compete by offering consumers the opportunity to buy policies that make sense.
Ahhh, I found the fly in the ointment. And by ointment, I am referring to KY Jelly; and by fly, I'm referring to Congressional election funds.
'Sense' has nothing to do with it. I was a member of a private clinic for several years. It cost me ~$25/month in dues. For that, I got unlimited visits at $15 each, stitches were $60, bloodwork was priced at $5-$15 per test, etc. All prices were posted. No insurance accepted.
They lasted for about 6 years. Dammit.
Thank you.
Congress should eliminate this tax favor. While they are at it, Congress should remove the tangle of insurance regulations so companies will have to compete by offering consumers the opportunity to buy policies that make sense.
Ahhh, I found the fly in the ointment. And by ointment, I am referring to KY Jelly; and by fly, I'm referring to Congressional election funds.
'Sense' has nothing to do with it. I was a member of a private clinic for several years. It cost me ~$25/month in dues. For that, I got unlimited visits at $15 each, stitches were $60, bloodwork was priced at $5-$15 per test, etc. All prices were posted. No insurance accepted.
They lasted for about 6 years. Dammit.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (Z4rgH)
88
First, ALL medical expenses become tax-deductible (no 2% threshold).
Second, just make "benefits" post-tax. Yeah, it will hurt me a bit as companies will probably stop providing stuff like no-cost(-to-me) life insurance. But it will make compensation more negotiable, imo.
Third, total price transparency. That means that all costs are known beforehand, including whether or not any cost is discounted for a particular plan. *Individually negotiated* costs, are, of course, not really part of this.
Fourth, allow anyone, anywhere, to associate on some basis for medical insurance or managed care benefits. Just like credit unions. So, smokers could band together and negotiate for certain coverages at certain costs, or whatever. This would particularly help the self-employed and retired, imo.
Fifth, make a sharp distinction between health INSURANCE and managed care setups. Allow the former to be TRULY insurance, and not just a managed care plan with really high deductibles.
Sixth, portability across state lines. Within the bounds of state laws, of course, just like car insurance. But if I insure my car in Texas, and drive to Alabama and get in an accident, my insurance covers me. Or if I move to Alabama, I might have to change my coverage a bit, but I can stay with that insurance company if I want.
Seventh, no state (or federal) mandated coverage. You can't require anyone to cover birth control or joint replacements or whatnot. But, you require it to be plain to a non-lawyer what is and is not covered.
Of course, all of this requires a sea change in attitudes in America, and a willingness to suffer through the changes to get to a better end.
And, sadly, I don't see that happening with this electorate.
Second, just make "benefits" post-tax. Yeah, it will hurt me a bit as companies will probably stop providing stuff like no-cost(-to-me) life insurance. But it will make compensation more negotiable, imo.
Third, total price transparency. That means that all costs are known beforehand, including whether or not any cost is discounted for a particular plan. *Individually negotiated* costs, are, of course, not really part of this.
Fourth, allow anyone, anywhere, to associate on some basis for medical insurance or managed care benefits. Just like credit unions. So, smokers could band together and negotiate for certain coverages at certain costs, or whatever. This would particularly help the self-employed and retired, imo.
Fifth, make a sharp distinction between health INSURANCE and managed care setups. Allow the former to be TRULY insurance, and not just a managed care plan with really high deductibles.
Sixth, portability across state lines. Within the bounds of state laws, of course, just like car insurance. But if I insure my car in Texas, and drive to Alabama and get in an accident, my insurance covers me. Or if I move to Alabama, I might have to change my coverage a bit, but I can stay with that insurance company if I want.
Seventh, no state (or federal) mandated coverage. You can't require anyone to cover birth control or joint replacements or whatnot. But, you require it to be plain to a non-lawyer what is and is not covered.
Of course, all of this requires a sea change in attitudes in America, and a willingness to suffer through the changes to get to a better end.
And, sadly, I don't see that happening with this electorate.
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (7hcwx)
89
Taking pictures of your dining out, vacations, and general fun is a way for people to say to their "friends" that "my life is better than yours."
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (P0nip)
It's staggering to think how we are changing human relationships, in ways that nobody can genuinely contemplate just yet.
One small example, it is now common for teenagers to exchange nudes with each other. In fact, if you are a boy, you can send a pic of you peener to a girl (or boy, I guess) you like, and if she accept the photo (and/or send you one in return), you've essentially entered into an agreement that you will have sex at some point.
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (P0nip)
It's staggering to think how we are changing human relationships, in ways that nobody can genuinely contemplate just yet.
One small example, it is now common for teenagers to exchange nudes with each other. In fact, if you are a boy, you can send a pic of you peener to a girl (or boy, I guess) you like, and if she accept the photo (and/or send you one in return), you've essentially entered into an agreement that you will have sex at some point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (hku12)
90
82 It is a good baby step, and I admittedly don't know enough about it, but I think the special interests are so dominant in politics that the only other baby step I can see making it is allowing nationwide sales of all types of insurance.
Plus people are very protective of their work insurance. Even if you explained to them that they may be paying more than they would overall*, most would want to keep it they way they have it.
*This wouldn't be true for everybody of course.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2019 12:19 PM (r+sAi)
For one thing, I would buy medical insurance not health insurance. Big difference between the two.
Plus people are very protective of their work insurance. Even if you explained to them that they may be paying more than they would overall*, most would want to keep it they way they have it.
*This wouldn't be true for everybody of course.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2019 12:19 PM (r+sAi)
For one thing, I would buy medical insurance not health insurance. Big difference between the two.
Posted by: Sooner at December 07, 2019 12:27 PM (Fs5vw)
91
Recently, our not-for-profit hospital was bought out by HCA (See: Bain Capital).
Now, in the past a local charity operated a free medical clinic. The clinic was supported strictly by donations and volunteers, mostly retired medical people, and functioned to provide care to minor indigent cases.
One of the largest donors was said not-for-profit hospital. Why? Well, easy, the clinic provided walk-in treatment for non-critical care, and thus significantly reduced the ER load for the hospital. Moreover, the clinic was not burdened with the overhead associated with insurance claims, paperwork and etc.
The hospital also provided the clinic with imaging and pharmaceutical services. Win-win.
Ah...but now comes HCA. Two things. One, HCA sends the clinic a letter saying 'Sorry, we won't be supporting you anymore. No more imaging, no more pharmaceuticals, no more grant money'.
But why? Why do that if it is more efficient to have the free clinic operating? Easy. HCA is a private, for-profit hospital, they ONLY accept life-threatening cases at the ER. They are under no obligation to accept or treat anyone with a cold, or the flu, etc., i.e. cases that used to be off-loaded to the clinic.
So, that's that. I will point out that in at least one case a community is now trying to buy back their hospital from HCA.
The clinic is struggling to find resources to replace the hospital-provided services and grants, but it is grim.
Now, in the past a local charity operated a free medical clinic. The clinic was supported strictly by donations and volunteers, mostly retired medical people, and functioned to provide care to minor indigent cases.
One of the largest donors was said not-for-profit hospital. Why? Well, easy, the clinic provided walk-in treatment for non-critical care, and thus significantly reduced the ER load for the hospital. Moreover, the clinic was not burdened with the overhead associated with insurance claims, paperwork and etc.
The hospital also provided the clinic with imaging and pharmaceutical services. Win-win.
Ah...but now comes HCA. Two things. One, HCA sends the clinic a letter saying 'Sorry, we won't be supporting you anymore. No more imaging, no more pharmaceuticals, no more grant money'.
But why? Why do that if it is more efficient to have the free clinic operating? Easy. HCA is a private, for-profit hospital, they ONLY accept life-threatening cases at the ER. They are under no obligation to accept or treat anyone with a cold, or the flu, etc., i.e. cases that used to be off-loaded to the clinic.
So, that's that. I will point out that in at least one case a community is now trying to buy back their hospital from HCA.
The clinic is struggling to find resources to replace the hospital-provided services and grants, but it is grim.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:29 PM (oTMWb)
92
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (87gB3)
Emmie, I use black electrical tape. cut off the size you need.
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (87gB3)
Emmie, I use black electrical tape. cut off the size you need.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:29 PM (O/X1S)
93
One small example, it is now common for teenagers to exchange nudes with each other. In fact, if you are a boy, you can send a pic of you peener to a girl (or boy, I guess) you like, and if she accept the photo (and/or send you one in return), you've essentially entered into an agreement that you will have sex at some point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (hku12)
Is this really a thing? I mean is it that widespread, outside of a small clique?
I've heard stories of groups of young people who have all slept with each other at some point and all the girls know which guys are hung and yet they all hang out.
Mindblowing.
One small example, it is now common for teenagers to exchange nudes with each other. In fact, if you are a boy, you can send a pic of you peener to a girl (or boy, I guess) you like, and if she accept the photo (and/or send you one in return), you've essentially entered into an agreement that you will have sex at some point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (hku12)
Is this really a thing? I mean is it that widespread, outside of a small clique?
I've heard stories of groups of young people who have all slept with each other at some point and all the girls know which guys are hung and yet they all hang out.
Mindblowing.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 12:30 PM (CqE5x)
94
87 Was thinking that last week but didn't mention it I am thinking.
KT does bring it every week.
And after lunch got to go see if my dad is doing better in the hospital. God only knows how it will be paid for.
KT does bring it every week.
And after lunch got to go see if my dad is doing better in the hospital. God only knows how it will be paid for.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:30 PM (ZCEU2)
95
Heh, BurtTC. First thing I did when I bought a new laptop a few years ago was cover the camera. Same with the phone I was forced to replace last weekend.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (O/X1S)
I bought some stickers especially designed for that. I wanted something that wouldn't leave sticky residue.
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (87gB3)
The cameras don't really concern me. I'm not doing anything that's going to get me into trouble.
What is interesting though, if you have googer maps on your phone, check your history. The damn thing knows exactly where it's been. With pinpoint accuracy.
Now, I suppose googer says it's not giving that info to the government or anybody else who might "harm" us, but does anybody believe that they won't? Or that having that much power doesn't affect how a company operates with its customers?
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:18 PM (O/X1S)
I bought some stickers especially designed for that. I wanted something that wouldn't leave sticky residue.
This has worked for all of my devices except for the phone face camera. Every sticker I put on falls off within a few hours. Weird.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 12:25 PM (87gB3)
The cameras don't really concern me. I'm not doing anything that's going to get me into trouble.
What is interesting though, if you have googer maps on your phone, check your history. The damn thing knows exactly where it's been. With pinpoint accuracy.
Now, I suppose googer says it's not giving that info to the government or anybody else who might "harm" us, but does anybody believe that they won't? Or that having that much power doesn't affect how a company operates with its customers?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (hku12)
96
*This wouldn't be true for everybody of course.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2019 12:19 PM (r+sAi)
This is part of the issue, as well. The current managed care silliness socializes costs for the small number of folks who have a LOT of medical bills.
Again, with this electorate I don't see overcoming the perception of "throwing those people out in the cold" because many Americans have come to a really warped understanding of charity.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 07, 2019 12:19 PM (r+sAi)
This is part of the issue, as well. The current managed care silliness socializes costs for the small number of folks who have a LOT of medical bills.
Again, with this electorate I don't see overcoming the perception of "throwing those people out in the cold" because many Americans have come to a really warped understanding of charity.
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (7hcwx)
97
One of the big things I don't like about company insurance is the constant harangue about how I should live more healthy and all the "suggestions" on how I should live my life.
Posted by: Sooner at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (Fs5vw)
98
Now, I suppose googer says it's not giving that info to the government or anybody else who might "harm" us, but does anybody believe that they won't? Or that having that much power doesn't affect how a company operates with its customers?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (hku12)
---
*snort*
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (hku12)
---
*snort*
Posted by: OPM says Ooops at December 07, 2019 12:33 PM (RU4sa)
99
One of the big things I don't like about company insurance is the constant harangue about how I should live more healthy and all the "suggestions" on how I should live my life.
Posted by: Sooner
--------
Oh, yes. They offer to, and do, send people around to visit and evaluate your lifestyle, as a service.
Yeah, no. LOLGF, you're not setting foot in my house, or life.
Posted by: Sooner
--------
Oh, yes. They offer to, and do, send people around to visit and evaluate your lifestyle, as a service.
Yeah, no. LOLGF, you're not setting foot in my house, or life.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:33 PM (Zo1XC)
100
One small example, it is now common for teenagers to exchange nudes with each other. In fact, if you are a boy, you can send a pic of you peener to a girl (or boy, I guess) you like, and if she accept the photo (and/or send you one in return), you've essentially entered into an agreement that you will have sex at some point.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (hku12)
Is this really a thing? I mean is it that widespread, outside of a small clique?
I've heard stories of groups of young people who have all slept with each other at some point and all the girls know which guys are hung and yet they all hang out.
Mindblowing.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 12:30 PM (CqE5x)
I haven't seen any data, but anecdotal information suggests it's pretty widespread. Like anything else though, if anyone says "everybody is doing it," they're wrong. Everybody is NOT doing it.
Sorta like years ago, when it was simply a matter of teenagers having sex. When they wanted to give out condoms to everybody, that was the reason: They're all having sex anyway.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:26 PM (hku12)
Is this really a thing? I mean is it that widespread, outside of a small clique?
I've heard stories of groups of young people who have all slept with each other at some point and all the girls know which guys are hung and yet they all hang out.
Mindblowing.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 12:30 PM (CqE5x)
I haven't seen any data, but anecdotal information suggests it's pretty widespread. Like anything else though, if anyone says "everybody is doing it," they're wrong. Everybody is NOT doing it.
Sorta like years ago, when it was simply a matter of teenagers having sex. When they wanted to give out condoms to everybody, that was the reason: They're all having sex anyway.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
101
Now, I suppose googer says it's not giving that info to the government or anybody else who might "harm" us, but does anybody believe that they won't? Or that having that much power doesn't affect how a company operates with its customers?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (hku12)
Hmm, now I need to figure out how to disable that shit. fk.
Now, I suppose googer says it's not giving that info to the government or anybody else who might "harm" us, but does anybody believe that they won't? Or that having that much power doesn't affect how a company operates with its customers?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:31 PM (hku12)
Hmm, now I need to figure out how to disable that shit. fk.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (O/X1S)
102
I'll never enter a relationship with a girl on social media again. The last relationship I had few months ago last about a year. She had an average of 3-4 random guys and guys she knew (married and not married) a day asking her to hookup and trying to drive a wedge between us.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
103
Yes, yes, yes, but transparency is not going to hurt anything so what is the argument against transparency?
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (1glZx)
I have no complaints about the doctors or the system from a personal perspective what I want is anything that is going to make the system more effective for everyone.
Arguing that we should not give people the information because they are not going to understand it and it is going to make them angry is kind of of Pelosiish.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:41 AM (HALdu)
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (1glZx)
I have no complaints about the doctors or the system from a personal perspective what I want is anything that is going to make the system more effective for everyone.
Arguing that we should not give people the information because they are not going to understand it and it is going to make them angry is kind of of Pelosiish.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 12:37 PM (HALdu)
104
Sorta like years ago, when it was simply a matter of teenagers having sex. When they wanted to give out condoms to everybody, that was the reason: They're all having sex anyway.
------------------
The same rationale is applied to needles. 'Well, they're going to do it anyhow...'
Perhaps. But to embrace and nurture that behavior is not a winning strategy. A free needle-exchange opening in you town is NOT a positive change..
------------------
The same rationale is applied to needles. 'Well, they're going to do it anyhow...'
Perhaps. But to embrace and nurture that behavior is not a winning strategy. A free needle-exchange opening in you town is NOT a positive change..
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:37 PM (x/2Z8)
105
Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
Yep. It's called "normalization". It's one of the reasons the homosexual movement cited that "10%" bullcarp. It's already happened with teen sex. It's happenING with adult-child sex. It's happening with transgender crap.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
Yep. It's called "normalization". It's one of the reasons the homosexual movement cited that "10%" bullcarp. It's already happened with teen sex. It's happenING with adult-child sex. It's happening with transgender crap.
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:38 PM (7hcwx)
106
The phony effort to keep up with your friends is pathological.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (P0nip)
The big impact I think is in the online dating scene. Every profile for a woman online basically reads like she's spent too much time on instagram.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:03 PM (hku12)
Yep. It also destroys families and future families by dividing man and woman in relationships, mainly women who are susceptible to believing the grass is greener while getting hit on privately in their DMs. This is not the case for the vast majority of men.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:09 PM (P0nip)
The big impact I think is in the online dating scene. Every profile for a woman online basically reads like she's spent too much time on instagram.
Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 07, 2019 12:38 PM (SgjGX)
107
102 I'll never enter a relationship with a girl on social media again. The last relationship I had few months ago last about a year. She had an average of 3-4 random guys and guys she knew (married and not married) a day asking her to hookup and trying to drive a wedge between us.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
Were there pictures? Asking for a friend.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
Were there pictures? Asking for a friend.
Posted by: Sooner at December 07, 2019 12:39 PM (Fs5vw)
108
There has been local governments who want to give out free drug use safe spaces.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:40 PM (ZCEU2)
109
I'm probably the only one in my immediate family (besides the hubs) who does not have a FB account.
As far as FB being pron for women, that may be true.
Fortunately for me, pron is boring.
As far as FB being pron for women, that may be true.
Fortunately for me, pron is boring.
Posted by: OPM says Ooops at December 07, 2019 12:41 PM (RU4sa)
110
Off troop-betraying govt sock.
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 12:42 PM (RU4sa)
111
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
To some extent, yes. Remember that women are much more.. cerebral when it comes to being stimulated. Titillate a woman with words. Impress her with feelings. She is being fulfilled the same way a guy is looking at KDABear's Friday tweet links.
And those things are much easier to do in written form than in person. (IMHO)
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
To some extent, yes. Remember that women are much more.. cerebral when it comes to being stimulated. Titillate a woman with words. Impress her with feelings. She is being fulfilled the same way a guy is looking at KDABear's Friday tweet links.
And those things are much easier to do in written form than in person. (IMHO)
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:42 PM (7hcwx)
112
I now know what it feels like to be dying of thirst in the desert and then get hit by a tsunami. It's, uh, different.
Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at December 07, 2019 12:42 PM (icI8A)
113
I'll never enter a relationship with a girl on social media again. The last relationship I had few months ago last about a year. She had an average of 3-4 random guys and guys she knew (married and not married) a day asking her to hookup and trying to drive a wedge between us.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
I've been on the other side of that, been in communication by text with women who are in committed relationships.
I guess I figured it wasn't my problem, but I did have a female friend who argued those women were cheating. It didn't matter that I wasn't engaging in any overtly sexual behavior with them, online or otherwise. Her belief was, I wasn't the husband/boyfriend, so the gal shouldn't be looking for whatever it was she was getting from me.
She claimed she didn't use it much, but looking back she spent 1-2 hours a night before bed on it even when I was there.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:35 PM (P0nip)
I've been on the other side of that, been in communication by text with women who are in committed relationships.
I guess I figured it wasn't my problem, but I did have a female friend who argued those women were cheating. It didn't matter that I wasn't engaging in any overtly sexual behavior with them, online or otherwise. Her belief was, I wasn't the husband/boyfriend, so the gal shouldn't be looking for whatever it was she was getting from me.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:42 PM (hku12)
114
Almost gone from sidebar:
"EXCLUSIVE TO ACE OF SPADES: Brian Stelter is a "God-cursed chimptato hybrid," according to roving correspondent sock_rat_eez
DEVELOPING... "
Full disclosure:
I didn't make that up, some other Hordeling did, I thought it was funny and seconded it. Somehow I got quoted.
Still gives me a chuckle every time I think about it.
"EXCLUSIVE TO ACE OF SPADES: Brian Stelter is a "God-cursed chimptato hybrid," according to roving correspondent sock_rat_eez
DEVELOPING... "
Full disclosure:
I didn't make that up, some other Hordeling did, I thought it was funny and seconded it. Somehow I got quoted.
Still gives me a chuckle every time I think about it.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 12:42 PM (JwHjN)
115
gellerreport.com/rep rashida tlaib wears jihad war scarf on the house-floor while rejecting israel resolution
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:43 PM (ZCEU2)
116
So, let me get this straight. Canada lost 71,000 jobs last month (equvilent to US losing 500,000)
More like 750,000, from my reckoning.
So, let me get this straight. Canada lost 71,000 jobs last month (equvilent to US losing 500,000)
More like 750,000, from my reckoning.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 12:43 PM (oVJmc)
117
To some extent, yes. Remember that women are much more.. cerebral when it comes to being stimulated. Titillate a woman with words. Impress her with feelings.
---
Boy, that is so not me.
Tanks.
Want to impress me? Drive up to my house with a fully loaded M1A2.
---
Boy, that is so not me.
Tanks.
Want to impress me? Drive up to my house with a fully loaded M1A2.
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 12:44 PM (RU4sa)
118
Hey I'm glad for social media because I was able to end things with the future bunny boiler because she's so insane that she pestered me enough today that I just excised her from my life, even though I'm an idiot who was going to see her again next week because, you know, guy with a penis.
Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at December 07, 2019 12:44 PM (icI8A)
119
115 https://tinyurl.com/tnp3b6l
Wonder if a MAGA hat would fly
Wonder if a MAGA hat would fly
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:44 PM (ZCEU2)
120
Want to impress me? Drive up to my house with a fully loaded M1A2.
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 12:44 PM (RU4sa)
As always, these are generalizations. Some women (thank God) are ~different~.
(Some men, too.)
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 12:44 PM (RU4sa)
As always, these are generalizations. Some women (thank God) are ~different~.
(Some men, too.)
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:45 PM (7hcwx)
121
Someone already imported the Syrian doctors into Cleveland.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:46 AM (HALdu)
In my pre Medicare daze, we used to go to Kaiser. One of my series of doctors (they were all so good I assume they left for private practice) was an Iranian doll baby who was flat out gorgeous. I was cursed with good health and was afraid she'd know what I was doing if I faked being a hypochondriac...
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 11:46 AM (HALdu)
In my pre Medicare daze, we used to go to Kaiser. One of my series of doctors (they were all so good I assume they left for private practice) was an Iranian doll baby who was flat out gorgeous. I was cursed with good health and was afraid she'd know what I was doing if I faked being a hypochondriac...
Posted by: Captain Hate at December 07, 2019 12:46 PM (y7DUB)
122
Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
Yep. It's called "normalization". It's one of the reasons the homosexual movement cited that "10%" bullcarp. It's already happened with teen sex. It's happenING with adult-child sex. It's happening with transgender crap.
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:38 PM (7hcwx)
If you could find good, solid unbiased numbers, which we probably can't, I'd believe there is a much higher percentage of young people, male and female, who have engaged in homosexual behavior, than in years past.
But the numbers of those who identify as homo (or bi or whatever), probably doesn't change all that much. Still well below 10%, I believe.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
Yep. It's called "normalization". It's one of the reasons the homosexual movement cited that "10%" bullcarp. It's already happened with teen sex. It's happenING with adult-child sex. It's happening with transgender crap.
Posted by: GWB at December 07, 2019 12:38 PM (7hcwx)
If you could find good, solid unbiased numbers, which we probably can't, I'd believe there is a much higher percentage of young people, male and female, who have engaged in homosexual behavior, than in years past.
But the numbers of those who identify as homo (or bi or whatever), probably doesn't change all that much. Still well below 10%, I believe.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:48 PM (hku12)
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 12:48 PM (RU4sa)
124
"60 As usual, the problem with the system isn't capitalism, it's that capitalism isn't really being tried. Government either puts its thumb on the scale or refuses to act when the healthcare industry screws its customers.
Posted by: Matt_SE at December 07, 2019 12:05 PM (+WSKI) "
Exactly this.The nearest thing to free-market capitalism I've ever experienced was Maxwell Street market on Sunday mornings, back last century.
Posted by: Matt_SE at December 07, 2019 12:05 PM (+WSKI) "
Exactly this.The nearest thing to free-market capitalism I've ever experienced was Maxwell Street market on Sunday mornings, back last century.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 12:48 PM (JwHjN)
125
Want to impress me? Drive up to my house with a fully loaded M1A2.
Posted by: SMH
--------
Well, I'm old school. I'd happily settle for an Ontos. Really, really, happily settle.
Posted by: SMH
--------
Well, I'm old school. I'd happily settle for an Ontos. Really, really, happily settle.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:48 PM (Zo1XC)
126
With the huge success of government competence in rolling out the ObamaHellCare websites, I am shocked to hear of this. SHOCKED.
The biggest threat to American Healthcare is criminal illegal invasion. in just 5 short years in 2002-2007 over 8 major hospitals closed their door in southern California. Why? criminal illegal invaders bankrupted them.
That is a very big problem coming to your hospitals as the government resettles criminal illegal invaders EVERYWHERE in the USA.
The biggest threat to American Healthcare is criminal illegal invasion. in just 5 short years in 2002-2007 over 8 major hospitals closed their door in southern California. Why? criminal illegal invaders bankrupted them.
That is a very big problem coming to your hospitals as the government resettles criminal illegal invaders EVERYWHERE in the USA.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserios at December 07, 2019 12:49 PM (pw+jk)
127
"39 I heard a new term this week: Pharmacoeconomics.
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (hku12) "
Easy, it's who you voted for in the last Presidential election !
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (hku12) "
Easy, it's who you voted for in the last Presidential election !
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 12:49 PM (JwHjN)
128
"Do you need catheters? Would you like a motorized wheelchair or runabout at no cost to you?"
TV commercials like this, courting medicare and insurance patients, show just what an industry it is...
TV commercials like this, courting medicare and insurance patients, show just what an industry it is...
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (oVJmc)
129
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (Zo1XC)
130
rep rashida tlaib wears jihad war scarf on the house-floor while rejecting israel resolution
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:43 PM (ZCEU2)
If anybody was wondering why the sand ticks engage in animal "husbandry" at a high rate, between her hideous face and dumpster sized ass is the reason.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:43 PM (ZCEU2)
If anybody was wondering why the sand ticks engage in animal "husbandry" at a high rate, between her hideous face and dumpster sized ass is the reason.
Posted by: Captain Hate at December 07, 2019 12:52 PM (y7DUB)
131
"Do you need catheters? Would you like a motorized wheelchair or runabout at no cost to you?"
TV commercials like this, courting medicare and insurance patients, show just what an industry it is...
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
-------
"Hi, I'm Joe Namath..."
TV commercials like this, courting medicare and insurance patients, show just what an industry it is...
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
-------
"Hi, I'm Joe Namath..."
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:52 PM (f6lTY)
132
I heard a new term this week: Pharmacoeconomics.
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (hku12) "
Easy, it's who you voted for in the last Presidential election !
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 12:49 PM (JwHjN)
Oh, I bet there are plenty of "Don't take away my pension" union retirees who still vote for Dems, who will soon not qualify for "values-based" decisions on which drugs they will have access to.
It's basically what you think it is. The "study" of how to measure the "value" of one medication versus another.
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 11:52 AM (hku12) "
Easy, it's who you voted for in the last Presidential election !
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 12:49 PM (JwHjN)
Oh, I bet there are plenty of "Don't take away my pension" union retirees who still vote for Dems, who will soon not qualify for "values-based" decisions on which drugs they will have access to.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:52 PM (hku12)
133
A Striker would be more practicable be it a snow storm or zombie apocalypse
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 12:52 PM (ZCEU2)
134
TV commercials like this, courting medicare and insurance patients, show just what an industry it is...
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (oVJmc)
There was a guy here that made a mint on selling diapers to hospitals, nursing homes and the like thru medicare/medicaid. He ended up with a car museum. He croaked and daughter inherited it. It is now defunct.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (oVJmc)
There was a guy here that made a mint on selling diapers to hospitals, nursing homes and the like thru medicare/medicaid. He ended up with a car museum. He croaked and daughter inherited it. It is now defunct.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 12:53 PM (O/X1S)
135
- - - They are under no obligation to accept or treat anyone with a cold, or the flu, etc., i.e. cases that used to be off-loaded to the clinic.
So, that's that. I will point out that in at least one case a community is now trying to buy back their hospital from HCA.
The clinic is struggling to find resources to replace the hospital-provided services and grants, but it is grim.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:29 PM (oTMWb)
Staid conservative Republicane Bill Frist.
So, that's that. I will point out that in at least one case a community is now trying to buy back their hospital from HCA.
The clinic is struggling to find resources to replace the hospital-provided services and grants, but it is grim.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:29 PM (oTMWb)
Staid conservative Republicane Bill Frist.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 07, 2019 12:53 PM (W54U5)
136
Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (Zo1XC)
Remember when Sarah Palin talked about death panels? Everyone laughed and laughed.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (Zo1XC)
Remember when Sarah Palin talked about death panels? Everyone laughed and laughed.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:54 PM (hku12)
137
Emmie, I use black electrical tape. cut off the size you need.
=====
In truth, I had problems keeping the electrical tape over cameras.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
=====
In truth, I had problems keeping the electrical tape over cameras.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
Posted by: mustbequantum at December 07, 2019 12:55 PM (MIKMs)
138
136 Guess how they determine what is and is not valued here. Go ahead, guess.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (Zo1XC)
Remember when Sarah Palin talked about death panels? Everyone laughed and laughed.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:54 PM (hku12)
In their defense, the thought of killing Americans citizens fills them with joy.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------
Illegal immigrant >> elderly life-long citizen?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:51 PM (Zo1XC)
Remember when Sarah Palin talked about death panels? Everyone laughed and laughed.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:54 PM (hku12)
In their defense, the thought of killing Americans citizens fills them with joy.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 12:56 PM (P0nip)
139
Well...I may of just screwed up.
I've already purchased a new S&W .380 and I just ordered an Instapot for Mrs D. (I know, romantic SOB I am!)
Daughter #1 just pointed out that I'll probably get a visit from Homeland Security for ordering guns and pressure cookers.
Fu*k Me!
I've already purchased a new S&W .380 and I just ordered an Instapot for Mrs D. (I know, romantic SOB I am!)
Daughter #1 just pointed out that I'll probably get a visit from Homeland Security for ordering guns and pressure cookers.
Fu*k Me!
Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 12:56 PM (axyOa)
140
Sorta like years ago, when it was simply a matter of teenagers having sex. When they wanted to give out condoms to everybody, that was the reason: They're all having sex anyway.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
141
In truth, I had problems keeping the electrical tape over cameras.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
Posted by: mustbequantum
-------
Clean the surface with alcohol-wetted paper towel. Wipe it a couple of times, till squeaky clean.
In truth, I had problems keeping the electrical tape over cameras.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
Posted by: mustbequantum
-------
Clean the surface with alcohol-wetted paper towel. Wipe it a couple of times, till squeaky clean.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (elfAG)
142
Hmm. Thread is on life-support.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:00 PM (elfAG)
143
Bathroom shelf is up!
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 01:01 PM (MVjcR)
144
In truth, I had problems keeping the electrical tape over cameras.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
Posted by: mustbequantum
-------
Clean the surface with alcohol-wetted paper towel. Wipe it a couple of times, till squeaky clean.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07
For covering the cam on your computer?
Just put the sticky part of a post it note over the cam. I put one there more than a year ago and it is just fine.
I use Gorilla Tape (or duct tape).
Posted by: mustbequantum
-------
Clean the surface with alcohol-wetted paper towel. Wipe it a couple of times, till squeaky clean.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07
For covering the cam on your computer?
Just put the sticky part of a post it note over the cam. I put one there more than a year ago and it is just fine.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:01 PM (HALdu)
145
And in a rare burst of productivity, I put the tools away rather than leaving them on the dining room table.
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 01:02 PM (MVjcR)
146
Rush used to tell a story about wanting to pay for a hospital stay (His ear thing I believe) and the hospital billing clerks actually did not know how to ring up a 'cash' payment .President Trump again scores big and The Cronies , Big Health Care , go nuts . Reelect The President 2020.
Posted by: jaytrain at December 07, 2019 01:03 PM (eh3OZ)
147
The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
A little skepticism is in order when considering PP "data."
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
A little skepticism is in order when considering PP "data."
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:04 PM (87gB3)
148
Bathroom shelf is up!
Posted by: Weasel
------------
This just inviting some cosmic, unpleasant consequence.
------
And in a rare burst of productivity, I put the tools away rather than leaving them on the dining room table.
Posted by: Weasel
-----
But, how will you know where to find them later?
Posted by: Weasel
------------
This just inviting some cosmic, unpleasant consequence.
------
And in a rare burst of productivity, I put the tools away rather than leaving them on the dining room table.
Posted by: Weasel
-----
But, how will you know where to find them later?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (TQyCa)
149
I get a kick out of Facebook exhibitionists who post carefully curated scenes from their incredible lives, obsessively. I never tire of seeing pics of the meals they ordered in a restaurant orders and the exotic places they go for their vacations.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)
=======
There's a pretty smart/funny movie about this called Ingrid Goes West.
I get a kick out of Facebook exhibitionists who post carefully curated scenes from their incredible lives, obsessively. I never tire of seeing pics of the meals they ordered in a restaurant orders and the exotic places they go for their vacations.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero)
=======
There's a pretty smart/funny movie about this called Ingrid Goes West.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (13CQC)
150
Clean sheets in dryer and red sauce on stove for Christmas lasagna.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (O/X1S)
151
Hi, I'm Y.A. Tittle...
Posted by: klaftern at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (RuIsu)
152
Weasel. It's Saturday, don't wear yourself out.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (k8pI4)
153
Clean sheets in dryer and red sauce on stove for Christmas lasagna.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (O/X1S)
What the heck do you need sheets and red sauce for?
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (O/X1S)
What the heck do you need sheets and red sauce for?
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (HALdu)
154
But, how will you know where to find them later?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (TQyCa)
-------
True. Plus now WeaselWoman thinks something is wrong with me.
But, how will you know where to find them later?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM (TQyCa)
-------
True. Plus now WeaselWoman thinks something is wrong with me.
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (MVjcR)
155
For those with smartphone-watching-and-listening-to-you concerns, and they are real and serious, the Librem 5 open source phone has started shipping.
https://puri.sm
I'll have mine sometime next year ....
https://puri.sm
I'll have mine sometime next year ....
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (JwHjN)
156
Wow, that is some tree KT! Good Job!!
Posted by: kallisto at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (DJFLF)
157
-------
True. Plus now WeaselWoman thinks something is wrong with me.
Posted by: Weasel
--------
Wives take notice of unusual behavior.
True. Plus now WeaselWoman thinks something is wrong with me.
Posted by: Weasel
--------
Wives take notice of unusual behavior.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (TQyCa)
158
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
I get your point. Teenagers always find a way to have sex--most of them anyway. Even when they were told not to.
The thing is they usually had sex with their boyfriend or girlfriends--someone they were going steady with. Yes, there were a few promiscuous or "free spirited" ones, and there were always the odd drunken hook-ups.
But when the started distributing condoms--or when parents told them it was okay for them to have sex under their roof--it went to another level.
Telling teenagers to save it for marriage --or someone they truly loved--at least kept the sex down to a minimum.
Now, they're all so jaded.
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
I get your point. Teenagers always find a way to have sex--most of them anyway. Even when they were told not to.
The thing is they usually had sex with their boyfriend or girlfriends--someone they were going steady with. Yes, there were a few promiscuous or "free spirited" ones, and there were always the odd drunken hook-ups.
But when the started distributing condoms--or when parents told them it was okay for them to have sex under their roof--it went to another level.
Telling teenagers to save it for marriage --or someone they truly loved--at least kept the sex down to a minimum.
Now, they're all so jaded.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (CqE5x)
159
Clean sheets to sleep on. Red sauce goes to lasagna tomorrow and into the freezer for easy Christmas dinner. Have to wait til tomorrow for a good tiramasu recipe.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:08 PM (O/X1S)
160
152 Weasel. It's Saturday, don't wear yourself out.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (k8pI4)
-------
Your little pal WeaselDog is helping me rest now.
152 Weasel. It's Saturday, don't wear yourself out.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (k8pI4)
-------
Your little pal WeaselDog is helping me rest now.
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 01:08 PM (MVjcR)
161
>>The commission has estimated that of the thousands of alarms going off
throughout a hospital every day, an estimated 85% to 99% do not require
clinical intervention. Staff, facing widespread "alarm fatigue" can miss
critical alerts, leading to patient deaths.
THIS
Due to congenital heart defects, our son had 3 major surgeries, several hearth caths and several other issues that required a hospital stay. I can confirm that the alarms are both disruptive to sleep AND cause the nurses to tune them out. On more than one occasion, when an alarm went off, the nurse would shrug it off and comment that the doctor had set it so that it would go off to easily (e.g., that the setting was too sensitive and didn't account for normal variances in in his pulsox %).
Fine , except. . .after one surgery where the result was to get my son's pulsox to ~75%, because that's what his heart could handle prior to the upcoming surgery, the alarm kept going off when his pulsox was at 95%. In the nurses' minds: the higher the better. However, I knew something was not right. I mentioned my concern with the assigned nurse who shrugged it off as she shut off the alarm (again). I mentioned it to the assigned resident who looked at me like I was crazy for wanting a lower pulsox. Finally got the older, experienced head nurse in the room and she figured it out: the spigot that determined how much oxygen he got was an adult one, so it did not go low enough to give him prescribed amount of oxygen - oxygen he was weaning off of so he could go home. Argh!!
I have other stories like this, but I won;t bore you.
throughout a hospital every day, an estimated 85% to 99% do not require
clinical intervention. Staff, facing widespread "alarm fatigue" can miss
critical alerts, leading to patient deaths.
THIS
Due to congenital heart defects, our son had 3 major surgeries, several hearth caths and several other issues that required a hospital stay. I can confirm that the alarms are both disruptive to sleep AND cause the nurses to tune them out. On more than one occasion, when an alarm went off, the nurse would shrug it off and comment that the doctor had set it so that it would go off to easily (e.g., that the setting was too sensitive and didn't account for normal variances in in his pulsox %).
Fine , except. . .after one surgery where the result was to get my son's pulsox to ~75%, because that's what his heart could handle prior to the upcoming surgery, the alarm kept going off when his pulsox was at 95%. In the nurses' minds: the higher the better. However, I knew something was not right. I mentioned my concern with the assigned nurse who shrugged it off as she shut off the alarm (again). I mentioned it to the assigned resident who looked at me like I was crazy for wanting a lower pulsox. Finally got the older, experienced head nurse in the room and she figured it out: the spigot that determined how much oxygen he got was an adult one, so it did not go low enough to give him prescribed amount of oxygen - oxygen he was weaning off of so he could go home. Argh!!
I have other stories like this, but I won;t bore you.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 01:08 PM (bDqIh)
162
I kind of gave up with the smart phone watching and listening thing.
My new smartphone has a camera built into the screen so there is no way to cover it and there is no way to remove the battery either.
It is more or less the same thing as those tracking collars they used to put on bears now.
My new smartphone has a camera built into the screen so there is no way to cover it and there is no way to remove the battery either.
It is more or less the same thing as those tracking collars they used to put on bears now.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:09 PM (HALdu)
163
Exactly this.The nearest thing to free-market capitalism I've ever experienced was Maxwell Street market on Sunday mornings, back last century.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez
........
And that's how you want to buy your healthcare?
I would hazard a guess that most mothers in charge of finding health care for their family, especially children, would kinda disagree with you.
I got some really cheap shit on Maxwell St, but some of it was pretty crappy cheap shit.
Exactly this.The nearest thing to free-market capitalism I've ever experienced was Maxwell Street market on Sunday mornings, back last century.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez
........
And that's how you want to buy your healthcare?
I would hazard a guess that most mothers in charge of finding health care for their family, especially children, would kinda disagree with you.
I got some really cheap shit on Maxwell St, but some of it was pretty crappy cheap shit.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:09 PM (438dO)
164
We need to change the way we think about medical care and coverage in this country.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
=======
I wonder if there's a leader in the land who can start this.
We need to change the way we think about medical care and coverage in this country.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
=======
I wonder if there's a leader in the land who can start this.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:09 PM (13CQC)
165
Clean sheets in dryer and red sauce on stove for Christmas lasagna.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM
Sounds like something that needs to be done sober cause mixing that up would be...bad.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:05 PM
Sounds like something that needs to be done sober cause mixing that up would be...bad.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 01:10 PM (axyOa)
166
I'll have mine sometime next year ....
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (JwHjN)
So I can take my SIM card from current phone, place it in the Librem and I'm good to go?
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (JwHjN)
So I can take my SIM card from current phone, place it in the Librem and I'm good to go?
Posted by: kallisto at December 07, 2019 01:10 PM (DJFLF)
167
If my parents had told my sisters having sex under their roof was ok while I was there, had I caught them doing so, I would have beat their asses. Even if it was with a hot lesbian.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:11 PM (HALdu)
168
-------
Your little pal WeaselDog is helping me rest now.
Posted by: Weasel
----------
Oh, woe. I'm off to the pet hospital in a few minutes. Our little dog is having a hard time. Just a dog, I know, but dammit, the little critter is a member of the family for a long time. Pancreatitis, and it doesn't look good.
Your little pal WeaselDog is helping me rest now.
Posted by: Weasel
----------
Oh, woe. I'm off to the pet hospital in a few minutes. Our little dog is having a hard time. Just a dog, I know, but dammit, the little critter is a member of the family for a long time. Pancreatitis, and it doesn't look good.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (8ruUE)
169
I kind of gave up with the smart phone watching and listening thing.
My new smartphone has a camera built into the screen so there is no
way to cover it and there is no way to remove the battery either.
It is more or less the same thing as those tracking collars they used to put on bears now.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:09 PM (HALdu)
Well your hash is HAL so if your phone starts talking to you, "What are you doing? I'm sorry I can't allow that." Run
My new smartphone has a camera built into the screen so there is no
way to cover it and there is no way to remove the battery either.
It is more or less the same thing as those tracking collars they used to put on bears now.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:09 PM (HALdu)
Well your hash is HAL so if your phone starts talking to you, "What are you doing? I'm sorry I can't allow that." Run
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (gUgXg)
170
Want to impress me? Drive up to my house with a fully loaded M1A2.
And run into ex-ex when he just happens to be in the yard with a FGM-148 Javelin ant-tank missile?
Doesn't seem like the smart move.
And run into ex-ex when he just happens to be in the yard with a FGM-148 Javelin ant-tank missile?
Doesn't seem like the smart move.
Posted by: Blanco Basura -It's OK, I'm with the banned at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (xkSJa)
171
Well your hash is HAL so if your phone starts talking to you, "What are you doing? I'm sorry I can't allow that." Run
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (gUgXg)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (gUgXg)
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:13 PM (HALdu)
172
Oh, woe. I'm off to the pet hospital in a few minutes. Our little dog is having a hard time. Just a dog, I know, but dammit, the little critter is a member of the family for a long time. Pancreatitis, and it doesn't look good.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (8ruUE)
--------
Sorry to hear that, MH. Hoping for the best possible outcome.
Oh, woe. I'm off to the pet hospital in a few minutes. Our little dog is having a hard time. Just a dog, I know, but dammit, the little critter is a member of the family for a long time. Pancreatitis, and it doesn't look good.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 01:12 PM (8ruUE)
--------
Sorry to hear that, MH. Hoping for the best possible outcome.
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 01:13 PM (MVjcR)
173
A little skepticism is in order when considering PP "data."
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:04 PM (87gB3)
That's a very fair point. The best article I could find on the topic is from NPR (so yeah, I get it) but nonetheless it has multiple reference links:
https://tinyurl.com/us7pbd4
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:04 PM (87gB3)
That's a very fair point. The best article I could find on the topic is from NPR (so yeah, I get it) but nonetheless it has multiple reference links:
https://tinyurl.com/us7pbd4
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 01:14 PM (Z4rgH)
174
In a few months I'll be on Medicare, the first time I've had insurance since I was laid off in 2016. Since I was a contractor after that, I wasn't eligible for health insurance. So this will be a whole new phase in my life. I'm trusting that USAA will help me choose the best supplemental insurance. They were wonderful when my husband passed away, and I'm grateful to he able to avail myself of their services.
Posted by: Miley, the Duchess at December 07, 2019 01:15 PM (NMAzL)
175
Sorta like years ago, when it was simply a matter of teenagers having sex. When they wanted to give out condoms to everybody, that was the reason: They're all having sex anyway.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
My "premise" is not about pregnancy rates, nor is it about who is teaching what in schools.
I was talking about the "everybody's doing it" mentality, which passes for common knowledge in lots of settings. Not just schools.
I don't think there are any real accurate studies of who is doing what, so we're all just guessing. Including the people who like studying things like pregnancy rates of "abstinence only" sex ed classes.
Well, back then, they weren't. Lots more of them are now though, because we TOLD them everybody was, and if you weren't, well you must be the weirdo.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 12:34 PM (hku12)
I doubt your premise. Teens may not have been as open about having sex, but they were still doing it. The pregnancy rate of female teenagers in abstinence only sex ed is higher than in the general FT population.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 12:57 PM (Z4rgH)
My "premise" is not about pregnancy rates, nor is it about who is teaching what in schools.
I was talking about the "everybody's doing it" mentality, which passes for common knowledge in lots of settings. Not just schools.
I don't think there are any real accurate studies of who is doing what, so we're all just guessing. Including the people who like studying things like pregnancy rates of "abstinence only" sex ed classes.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:15 PM (hku12)
176
SMH, you here?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:15 PM (k8pI4)
177
lol Blanco
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 01:15 PM (RU4sa)
178
Ben Had!
Thank you! Got the package!
G-babies are out of town at the moment, but will see them tomorrow evening.
Thank you! Got the package!
G-babies are out of town at the moment, but will see them tomorrow evening.
Posted by: SMH at December 07, 2019 01:16 PM (RU4sa)
179
SMH, did you get your package?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:17 PM (k8pI4)
180
We need to change the way we think about medical care and coverage in this country.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
=====
Out of the blue bubble, CTJ, like I know you are capable. Remember the miracle of you even being here to listen and contribute.
Now, tell me what national Reps or Sens from the noisy state are capable of any remotely definable 'thinking'.
I'll wait.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry
=====
Out of the blue bubble, CTJ, like I know you are capable. Remember the miracle of you even being here to listen and contribute.
Now, tell me what national Reps or Sens from the noisy state are capable of any remotely definable 'thinking'.
I'll wait.
Posted by: mustbequantum at December 07, 2019 01:17 PM (MIKMs)
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:18 PM (O/X1S)
182
Nurses, paramedics, and EMTs are underpayed. The burnout rate is huge.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 01:18 PM (+ObfJ)
183
BTW, there was another excellent WierdDave link and read from a couple nights ago about "concurrent surgeries" (one doctor performing surgeries on two different patients at the same or in overlapping scheduled times) from the point-of-view of a former MLB pitcher victimized by this practice and hoping to enlighten the rest of us:
https://tinyurl.com/rzpsepd
Posted by: ShainS at December 07, 2019 11:44 AM (WqPYg)
==
Holy crap. I sort of hate I read that.
https://tinyurl.com/rzpsepd
Posted by: ShainS at December 07, 2019 11:44 AM (WqPYg)
==
Holy crap. I sort of hate I read that.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:19 PM (dFD3i)
184
For those with smartphone-watching-and-listening-to-you concerns, and they are real and serious, the Librem 5 open source phone has started shipping.
Is it still $600?
Is it still $600?
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 01:20 PM (oVJmc)
185
I'll probably buy the Librem 6.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:20 PM (dFD3i)
186
That said, I'd invest in the company making the Librem 5.
(looks to see if it's publicly traded)
(looks to see if it's publicly traded)
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:21 PM (dFD3i)
187
I want one of those little shops in the front of WalMart to be WalMart care .... complete blood test, $150 ... shingles vaccine shots ... $45 ... maybe even some minor stitches, straight forward tests.
I bet they (or maybe independent labs outside WalMart) could even get into various other tests .... MRIs, and such, various tests that could be useful, that could be emailed to a "reputable" specialist for analysis. idk, too many regs designed to help a certain industry, including the lawyers.
I bet they (or maybe independent labs outside WalMart) could even get into various other tests .... MRIs, and such, various tests that could be useful, that could be emailed to a "reputable" specialist for analysis. idk, too many regs designed to help a certain industry, including the lawyers.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:21 PM (Cus5s)
188
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot
========
You'd think hospitals might want to put an end to this.
Because anyone seeing how the system is actually run without understanding the distortions caused by regulations, laws, restrictions, and behind closed doors agreements will consider the whole thing a scam and a way to force legalized theft onto the people least able to pay.
And the majority will clamor for a fundamental change. (And the minority will call for stakes and piles of very flammable brushwood)
Posted by: Kindltot
========
You'd think hospitals might want to put an end to this.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:21 PM (13CQC)
189
Weasel would have traded you a plumbing leak for shelving
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 01:22 PM (ZCEU2)
190
My house smells sooo yummy; Greek cheese pies/tyropitas. Buttered phyllo stuffed with feta and ricotta. Mmmmmm delicious!
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 01:22 PM (a4qVe)
191
KT, as always, an outstanding post. Yours are consistently interesting and usually a change of pace.
The massive systematic artificial disaster that is health care financing has been easy to diagnose for decades [it only became a gigantic and economy-damaging thing in the last two, but was always a drag].
WWII Office of Price Control expedient to allow firms to compete for scarce labor is *not* supposed to be the cornerstone of a major sector of the world's largest economy [the tax treatment of insurance].
Just before the O-care catastrophe, 2 major companies adopted a simple approach that replicated actual, logical insurance [similar to that described by the TN physician in the quote] - reimbursement for everyday matters up to around $5K [with help in finding/pricing services], actual insurance above that level, with it underwritten as a set of insurable events, not a massive cartel negotiation. Voila - their health care costs flattened immediately, while the general trend for corporations continued up sharply. And this was with a simple, limited innovation, in a "market" utterly dominated by cartel pricing and massive dysfunction.
The massive systematic artificial disaster that is health care financing has been easy to diagnose for decades [it only became a gigantic and economy-damaging thing in the last two, but was always a drag].
WWII Office of Price Control expedient to allow firms to compete for scarce labor is *not* supposed to be the cornerstone of a major sector of the world's largest economy [the tax treatment of insurance].
Just before the O-care catastrophe, 2 major companies adopted a simple approach that replicated actual, logical insurance [similar to that described by the TN physician in the quote] - reimbursement for everyday matters up to around $5K [with help in finding/pricing services], actual insurance above that level, with it underwritten as a set of insurable events, not a massive cartel negotiation. Voila - their health care costs flattened immediately, while the general trend for corporations continued up sharply. And this was with a simple, limited innovation, in a "market" utterly dominated by cartel pricing and massive dysfunction.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 01:23 PM (El6T/)
192
Weasel. It's Saturday, don't wear yourself out.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (k8pI4)
Did you get the wheel fixed on your Gator?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:06 PM (k8pI4)
Did you get the wheel fixed on your Gator?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 07, 2019 01:24 PM (/sgva)
193
>>BTW, there was another excellent WierdDave link and read from a couple nights ago about "concurrent surgeries"
I saw that, and that is horrifying. Having loved ones who have had multiple surgeries, my experience with meeting with their surgeons is this: they are focused on getting in and out, minimizing the time my loved one is in the OR. Heck, they are even economical in the words they use, the time they spend in discussions before and after the surgery (not in a bad way, it's just they have always been really efficient, direct people). Makes me wonder why this is happening - is it surgeon ego or hospital admins trying to squeeze more out of the hours the surgeon is there?
I saw that, and that is horrifying. Having loved ones who have had multiple surgeries, my experience with meeting with their surgeons is this: they are focused on getting in and out, minimizing the time my loved one is in the OR. Heck, they are even economical in the words they use, the time they spend in discussions before and after the surgery (not in a bad way, it's just they have always been really efficient, direct people). Makes me wonder why this is happening - is it surgeon ego or hospital admins trying to squeeze more out of the hours the surgeon is there?
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 01:25 PM (bDqIh)
194
155 For those with smartphone-watching-and-listening-to-you concerns, and they are real and serious, the Librem 5 open source phone has started shipping.
https://puri.sm
I'll have mine sometime next year ....
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (JwHjN)
When they are for sale on Amazon they will be ready for we commoners.
https://puri.sm
I'll have mine sometime next year ....
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:07 PM (JwHjN)
When they are for sale on Amazon they will be ready for we commoners.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 07, 2019 01:25 PM (W54U5)
195
>>My house smells sooo yummy; Greek cheese pies/tyropitas. Buttered phyllo stuffed with feta and ricotta. Mmmmmm delicious!
Uh, so how close are you to MA?
Uh, so how close are you to MA?
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 01:26 PM (bDqIh)
196
FL and TX eliminated frivolous liability lawsuits, that helped.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 07, 2019 01:26 PM (W54U5)
197
I don't even know how that surgeon was allowed to do two surgeries simultaneously. That violates all safety practices and some patient rights. The hospital knew, why did they let it continue? That was a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 01:27 PM (a4qVe)
198
Litzy, I'm in Chicago. Sorry sweetie.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 01:27 PM (a4qVe)
199
For health care, I turn to New Balance. For medical care, I turn to hospitals and doctors and so on. Absolute price transparency is great, but:
Buying medical insurance should be like buying auto insurance. I do not go through my employer to get auto insurance. It is said that enrollment periods for medical insurance lasts what, 1-2 months? For auto insurance, the enrollment period lasts from January 1 to December 31. Then, it needs to be used like auto insurance: break your arm? Go to an urgent care clinic and pay for it there with cash/check/debit card/credit card. Save your medical insurance until something happens that is debilitating.
And get the bloody government out of it unless it involves government employees. (And how can government run the medical world? They can't even manage the very simple task of providing medical care to the vets, and they are - what? 5% of the population?
Buying medical insurance should be like buying auto insurance. I do not go through my employer to get auto insurance. It is said that enrollment periods for medical insurance lasts what, 1-2 months? For auto insurance, the enrollment period lasts from January 1 to December 31. Then, it needs to be used like auto insurance: break your arm? Go to an urgent care clinic and pay for it there with cash/check/debit card/credit card. Save your medical insurance until something happens that is debilitating.
And get the bloody government out of it unless it involves government employees. (And how can government run the medical world? They can't even manage the very simple task of providing medical care to the vets, and they are - what? 5% of the population?
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 07, 2019 01:27 PM (a4oGS)
200
Tip for water in copper lines preventing sweating the joint. Tried blowing air out with air compressor but didn't totally work so used shop vac holing up to basement sink and sucking water out.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 01:28 PM (ZCEU2)
201
And I'll re-post it:
Step one - Medicaid patients are eligible for care only at government warehouse clinics staffed by nursing students working there in agreement with student loan obligations and overseen by one actual degreed nurse.
Think DMV, but a doctors office, and it can be done in any old warehouse that was abandoned by Sears, Big Lots, etc.
Step two: Outside of every ER is a Lowes outbuilding staffed by an actual nurse. Any emergency room patients paying with Medicaid have to be checked in - or directed to the warehouse - through her.
Don't want that level of care? Don't use Medicaid.
Step one - Medicaid patients are eligible for care only at government warehouse clinics staffed by nursing students working there in agreement with student loan obligations and overseen by one actual degreed nurse.
Think DMV, but a doctors office, and it can be done in any old warehouse that was abandoned by Sears, Big Lots, etc.
Step two: Outside of every ER is a Lowes outbuilding staffed by an actual nurse. Any emergency room patients paying with Medicaid have to be checked in - or directed to the warehouse - through her.
Don't want that level of care? Don't use Medicaid.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:28 PM (dFD3i)
202
For those with smartphone-watching-and-listening-to-you concerns, and they are real and serious, the Librem 5 open source phone has started shipping.
Is it still $600?
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
............
$1995.00
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5-usa/
Is it still $600?
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
............
$1995.00
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5-usa/
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:28 PM (438dO)
203
It drives me nuts that Obama assured his funders that the purpose of his healthcare bill was to destroy private insurance and force everyone onto public plans.
But people who supported Obama and his healthcare plan insisted it was going to make healthcare better for everyone. They didn't even believe what Obama said about it himself. They only believed what Obama told the LIVs.
Now, those very same people are complaining about the astronomical cost of healthcare, which happened after they helped Obama get his plan passed.
But people who supported Obama and his healthcare plan insisted it was going to make healthcare better for everyone. They didn't even believe what Obama said about it himself. They only believed what Obama told the LIVs.
Now, those very same people are complaining about the astronomical cost of healthcare, which happened after they helped Obama get his plan passed.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:29 PM (87gB3)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:29 PM (438dO)
205
Tip for water in copper lines preventing sweating
the joint. Tried blowing air out with air compressor but didn't totally
work so used shop vac holing up to basement sink and sucking water out.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 01:28 PM (ZCEU2)
I have seen plumbers shove bread in the water line. It stops the water long enough to sweat the joint and then it just dissolves.
the joint. Tried blowing air out with air compressor but didn't totally
work so used shop vac holing up to basement sink and sucking water out.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 01:28 PM (ZCEU2)
I have seen plumbers shove bread in the water line. It stops the water long enough to sweat the joint and then it just dissolves.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 07, 2019 01:29 PM (9Om/r)
206
"So I can take my SIM card from current phone, place it in the Librem and I'm good to go?
Posted by: kallisto at December 07, 2019 01:10 PM (DJFLF)"
Um, yes, maybe ?
I think so, but I'm still using a 13 y.o. flip phone so I don't entirely speak the lingo yet.
"nano SIM tray" in the product specs ...
Posted by: kallisto at December 07, 2019 01:10 PM (DJFLF)"
Um, yes, maybe ?
I think so, but I'm still using a 13 y.o. flip phone so I don't entirely speak the lingo yet.
"nano SIM tray" in the product specs ...
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 01:30 PM (JwHjN)
207
AOP, not yet. The thickness of the frame where the hole is only about 3/8th and even the drill bit allows for that little bit of slippage to keep things from lining up. I'm going to try putting a riser under the floor jack and raise everything a couple of more inches.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 01:30 PM (k8pI4)
208
202. There's one for $700, but I can't tell what the difference is between that and the costlier USA one.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:31 PM (87gB3)
209
My sim card transferred nothing from my g3 to A10e. Fuckwads.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:32 PM (O/X1S)
210
$1995.00
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5-usa/
That's the US built version.
The Built-by-Chinese-Slave version is $699.
What I really want to see is an alternative to Android, that will work on most phones like Linux will work on most computer architectures. The problem isn't phones themselves, it's the operating system that is controlled by the totalitarians at Google.
$1995.00
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5-usa/
That's the US built version.
The Built-by-Chinese-Slave version is $699.
What I really want to see is an alternative to Android, that will work on most phones like Linux will work on most computer architectures. The problem isn't phones themselves, it's the operating system that is controlled by the totalitarians at Google.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 01:32 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:33 PM (438dO)
212
Now, those very same people are complaining about the astronomical cost of healthcare, which happened after they helped Obama get his plan passed.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:29 PM (87gB3)
--
Yep. Four trillion dollars later and everything is either the exact same or worse.
One of the big things that irritated me was how people were falling for the whole "medical bankruptcy" bullsh*t. The study the advocates were always referencing deemed bankruptcy related to medical bills if it was something like $4200 or above of money owed at the time.
So if you were earning $50K per year but leasing three BMWs for $700/month each, paying an adjustable rate mortgage on a $2M home, and just got a loan for a new $25K Harley, it was the $4200 in medical bills that caused your bankruptcy.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:29 PM (87gB3)
--
Yep. Four trillion dollars later and everything is either the exact same or worse.
One of the big things that irritated me was how people were falling for the whole "medical bankruptcy" bullsh*t. The study the advocates were always referencing deemed bankruptcy related to medical bills if it was something like $4200 or above of money owed at the time.
So if you were earning $50K per year but leasing three BMWs for $700/month each, paying an adjustable rate mortgage on a $2M home, and just got a loan for a new $25K Harley, it was the $4200 in medical bills that caused your bankruptcy.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:33 PM (dFD3i)
213
I'll never enter a relationship with a girl on social media again.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan
========
What do they call porn for men? Oh yes, porn. No customers for that on the internet, thank God. We women have it too easy.
I'll never enter a relationship with a girl on social media again.
It's porn for women.
Posted by: squirrelly dan
========
What do they call porn for men? Oh yes, porn. No customers for that on the internet, thank God. We women have it too easy.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:34 PM (13CQC)
214
My sim card transferred nothing from my g3 to A10e. Fuckwads.
Posted by: Infidel
.........
Android phones let you back up to the cloud and then download from the backup.. all your contacts at the very least.
Posted by: Infidel
.........
Android phones let you back up to the cloud and then download from the backup.. all your contacts at the very least.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (438dO)
215
The economic illiteracy and general ignorance and laziness of most people is nowhere more spectacularly on display than in the health care area.
For a routine screening even years back I recall utterly confounding the hospital finance people by opting to pay directly for it. Took half their operation to figure out what to charge. Along the way, I'd ask each person if they could name *any* service or product in their lives for which they didn't know the cost. Blank stares, "well ..... no, of course not, um ....".
O-care was pretty strong evidence the country is too lazy, illiterate, and structurally dysfunctional to take seriously. The "reform" debacle, the response to the backlash it helped create [Tea Party], and the ongoing passive acceptance [of course only about 15+ million people were devastated by O-care, most just had minor problems or just continued hyper-inflation, so "meh", not a big deal].
For a routine screening even years back I recall utterly confounding the hospital finance people by opting to pay directly for it. Took half their operation to figure out what to charge. Along the way, I'd ask each person if they could name *any* service or product in their lives for which they didn't know the cost. Blank stares, "well ..... no, of course not, um ....".
O-care was pretty strong evidence the country is too lazy, illiterate, and structurally dysfunctional to take seriously. The "reform" debacle, the response to the backlash it helped create [Tea Party], and the ongoing passive acceptance [of course only about 15+ million people were devastated by O-care, most just had minor problems or just continued hyper-inflation, so "meh", not a big deal].
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (El6T/)
216
What do they call porn for men? Oh yes, porn. No customers for that on the internet, thank God. We women have it too easy.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:34 PM (13CQC)
--
In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:34 PM (13CQC)
--
In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
217
What I really want to see is an alternative to Android, that will work on most phones like Linux will work on most computer architectures. The problem isn't phones themselves, it's the operating system that is controlled by the totalitarians at Google.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
........
The best phone I ever had was my Windows Mobile phone.. a Nokia.
But Microsoft eff'd up and gave the whole market away to Apple and Android.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles
........
The best phone I ever had was my Windows Mobile phone.. a Nokia.
But Microsoft eff'd up and gave the whole market away to Apple and Android.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 01:37 PM (438dO)
218
Did anyone ever figure out what makes medical bill dollars so mysterious and magical that they can't be paid the exact same way Americans pay for their student loans ($17K median), car loans ($19K median), mortgages ($237K median), etc.?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:38 PM (dFD3i)
219
In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
220
I cut the bad fitting out, made sure all new parts and old pipe ends were cleaned and flux, but failed in a connection. Being a low section had to get water out ( and lines were charged), as long as I could get water out could solder them again.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (ZCEU2)
221
In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Researchin' divorce lawyers, dear.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Researchin' divorce lawyers, dear.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (hku12)
222
"It drives me nuts that Obama assured his funders
that the purpose of his healthcare bill was to destroy private insurance
and force everyone onto public plans." Posted by: Emmie
right ... and complaining now is just another step in that plan "Oh my this is so bad, "universal care" is the only way to save US".
The grifters in Ukraine are part of the same package as the grifters in health care ... the military (hand in glove with government) industrial complex branched out into medical, education, "academic" research, even product development for tech like Google uses. BigGov is BigGraft ... the payouts/bribes to Biden/Pelosi/MitchChao/etc. is the small cost ... that open the door to the BigCost (trillions) to consumers and America itself. And with "FreeTrade" the funny money went global ...
The cartels come in many forms ... all those government pensions sitting in the red, health care a big part of those packages as well. Trump upset their apple carts ... prosecutions are essential to breaking their grip on every damn thing they (globalists/commies) touch.
that the purpose of his healthcare bill was to destroy private insurance
and force everyone onto public plans." Posted by: Emmie
right ... and complaining now is just another step in that plan "Oh my this is so bad, "universal care" is the only way to save US".
The grifters in Ukraine are part of the same package as the grifters in health care ... the military (hand in glove with government) industrial complex branched out into medical, education, "academic" research, even product development for tech like Google uses. BigGov is BigGraft ... the payouts/bribes to Biden/Pelosi/MitchChao/etc. is the small cost ... that open the door to the BigCost (trillions) to consumers and America itself. And with "FreeTrade" the funny money went global ...
The cartels come in many forms ... all those government pensions sitting in the red, health care a big part of those packages as well. Trump upset their apple carts ... prosecutions are essential to breaking their grip on every damn thing they (globalists/commies) touch.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (Cus5s)
223
as long as I could get water out could solder them again.
-
Make sure you turn the handle to "off" before you recharge the line, especially if you are not hooking it directly back up to a valve downstream or an outlet with a drain.
It's amazing how quickly a bathroom can flood with a line running full blast for about 45 seconds.
-
Make sure you turn the handle to "off" before you recharge the line, especially if you are not hooking it directly back up to a valve downstream or an outlet with a drain.
It's amazing how quickly a bathroom can flood with a line running full blast for about 45 seconds.
Posted by: Moron Robbie is a bridge at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (0GvUH)
224
This cold is going to be one of those annoying bastards that holds on forever.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (ycWCI)
225
In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Researchin' divorce lawyers, dear.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (hku12)
Emotional Faceboo Affair =OK!
Watching Porn = NOT OK!
Not that I am a proponent of porn.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Researchin' divorce lawyers, dear.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (hku12)
Emotional Faceboo Affair =OK!
Watching Porn = NOT OK!
Not that I am a proponent of porn.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (HALdu)
226
The biggest, most direct, simplest "reform" Trump could make his priority that would further jump start economic growth and dynamism much more than all of his other agenda items would be "radical" [i.e. obvious and logical] deregulation of health insurance and aggressive enforcement of laws against anti-competitive behavior within the sector.
Eliminating the enormous, entirely artificial rents and waste out of this large sector would be like reducing energy costs by 25% or more. It would be the single largest boost to American competitiveness that policy could create.
Jawboning the Fed on the value of the dollar [whatever the merits] is an annoying waste of time and political energy by comparison.
Eliminating the enormous, entirely artificial rents and waste out of this large sector would be like reducing energy costs by 25% or more. It would be the single largest boost to American competitiveness that policy could create.
Jawboning the Fed on the value of the dollar [whatever the merits] is an annoying waste of time and political energy by comparison.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (El6T/)
227
Everyone gravitate to the gardening thread?
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
228
Everyone gravitate to the gardening thread?
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
BurtTC, codename Agent Orange
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
BurtTC, codename Agent Orange
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:47 PM (HALdu)
229
Chi-town Jerry, not in Greektown, very few Greeks in the city these days. I'm in the incognito far northwest burbs.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 01:48 PM (a4qVe)
230
219 In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
A shocking percentage of total porn use is women. So once again they have their porn and get to eat it too.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
A shocking percentage of total porn use is women. So once again they have their porn and get to eat it too.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 01:48 PM (CtABd)
231
Not that I am a proponent of porn.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (HALdu)
--
Nekkid women bad, lifetime holiday movies good.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (HALdu)
--
Nekkid women bad, lifetime holiday movies good.
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 01:48 PM (yS1Ln)
232
Trump upset their apple carts ... prosecutions are essential to breaking their grip on every damn thing they (globalists/commies) touch.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (Cus5s)
Yes, Illiniwek, the Left's panic shows that they fear losing what corruption gives them.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:44 PM (Cus5s)
Yes, Illiniwek, the Left's panic shows that they fear losing what corruption gives them.
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 01:48 PM (87gB3)
233
219 In fairness, it's generally frowned upon for men to check their interests at dinner, during movie night, on long trips in the car with the kids, etc.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
I don't know if Emotional Facboo Affair was an intentional spelling error, but Faceboo is gold. I laughed.
Muh Faceboo
Posted by: Moron Robbie - Rainbow flags on men indicate poop is a major sexual turn on at December 07, 2019 01:35 PM (dFD3i)
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my Facebook dear.
vs
Whatcha doin' hon?
Checking my porn dear.
Guessing one of those get's a lot use than the other.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:41 PM (HALdu)
I don't know if Emotional Facboo Affair was an intentional spelling error, but Faceboo is gold. I laughed.
Muh Faceboo
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 01:52 PM (CtABd)
234
i had to put a fitting on the copper pipes for the pool, and the connection was right at water level, so soldering it was a no go.
went to the hardware store, and they had a two part epoxy type mix designed just for copper.
#ProblemSolved
went to the hardware store, and they had a two part epoxy type mix designed just for copper.
#ProblemSolved
Posted by: redc1c4 at December 07, 2019 01:52 PM (YOl0X)
235
I never use my phone's forward facing camera so I put a spot decal on the inside of the screen protector to cover it. Sure it creates a small dead spot on the screen but the area was not useful, so don't care.
Posted by: Shanks for the memory at December 07, 2019 01:52 PM (TdCQk)
236
Emotional Faceboo Affair =OK!
Watching Porn = NOT OK!
Not that I am a proponent of porn.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (HALdu)
Faceboo!
Watching Porn = NOT OK!
Not that I am a proponent of porn.
Posted by: not so at December 07, 2019 01:45 PM (HALdu)
Faceboo!
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 01:52 PM (CtABd)
237
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
Burt, I get a gallon of Markaze from the local co-op. you have to dilute it with water. Kills everything. That's why i need to drill a hole. A little spendy at $56 a gal. But well worth it.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
Burt, I get a gallon of Markaze from the local co-op. you have to dilute it with water. Kills everything. That's why i need to drill a hole. A little spendy at $56 a gal. But well worth it.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:54 PM (O/X1S)
238
No, complete and fundamental difference between private goods and public goods, health care and defense procurement being textbook examples of the difference.
Health care is a private good, there always be a thriving natural demand and supply, so best "policy" is least policy of any kind [public health matters like immunization, response to extraordinary/emergency events are exceptions but economically trivial as a %].
Defense procurement and policy are entirely public goods, by definition, and while use of competition and private supply should be maximized, it's nothing like health care. There can be, should be, and are a zillion clinics of all kinds [and there'd be more, and much cheaper, if real economics were allowed to play] - there's *one* shipyard that can build nuke aircraft carriers. Not a natural market of supply and demand.
Health care is a private good, there always be a thriving natural demand and supply, so best "policy" is least policy of any kind [public health matters like immunization, response to extraordinary/emergency events are exceptions but economically trivial as a %].
Defense procurement and policy are entirely public goods, by definition, and while use of competition and private supply should be maximized, it's nothing like health care. There can be, should be, and are a zillion clinics of all kinds [and there'd be more, and much cheaper, if real economics were allowed to play] - there's *one* shipyard that can build nuke aircraft carriers. Not a natural market of supply and demand.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 01:54 PM (El6T/)
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 01:58 PM (CtABd)
240
My goal for 2020: Kill every living piece of vegetation on my property.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
Burt, I get a gallon of Markaze from the local co-op. you have to dilute it with water. Kills everything. That's why i need to drill a hole. A little spendy at $56 a gal. But well worth it.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:54 PM (O/X1S)
I have 4-5 scraggly little flowering bushes in the front. I can pull them up by hand, if I want to. Or just starve them.
There's a 4'x4' garden box in the back, which had tomato and pepper plants. I might... might try to do tomatoes meself someday, so I'm not inclined to put any chemicals in there, but I'm also not going to cultivate it next Spring.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:46 PM (hku12)
Burt, I get a gallon of Markaze from the local co-op. you have to dilute it with water. Kills everything. That's why i need to drill a hole. A little spendy at $56 a gal. But well worth it.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 01:54 PM (O/X1S)
I have 4-5 scraggly little flowering bushes in the front. I can pull them up by hand, if I want to. Or just starve them.
There's a 4'x4' garden box in the back, which had tomato and pepper plants. I might... might try to do tomatoes meself someday, so I'm not inclined to put any chemicals in there, but I'm also not going to cultivate it next Spring.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 07, 2019 01:58 PM (hku12)
241
"So if you were earning $50K per year but leasing three BMWs for
$700/month each, paying an adjustable rate mortgage on a $2M home, and
just got a loan for a new $25K Harley, it was the $4200 in medical bills
that caused your bankruptcy." robbie
I haven't studied it, but the problem is with the blue collar guy that did not have company insurance (part time, self employed, contractor, whatever). So he couldn't afford the insurance, and the house payment. It was not the $4200 that broke him, it was a stroke and stints that cost $200,000 (or whatever). He was not overextended ... be was priced out of the market ... $20k/year for his family, $6K deductible. (idk how "Obamacare" supplemented those prices, but it was almost that high just for me alone, refusing Obamacare)
$700/month each, paying an adjustable rate mortgage on a $2M home, and
just got a loan for a new $25K Harley, it was the $4200 in medical bills
that caused your bankruptcy." robbie
I haven't studied it, but the problem is with the blue collar guy that did not have company insurance (part time, self employed, contractor, whatever). So he couldn't afford the insurance, and the house payment. It was not the $4200 that broke him, it was a stroke and stints that cost $200,000 (or whatever). He was not overextended ... be was priced out of the market ... $20k/year for his family, $6K deductible. (idk how "Obamacare" supplemented those prices, but it was almost that high just for me alone, refusing Obamacare)
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (Cus5s)
242
What about those medical bills that appear many months after the fact? What the hell? Backstory:
**Dad had Medicare A/B and Medicare Advantage. Seemed like he paid a heckuvalot in copays in his last couple of years, but he didn't dispute the *legitimacy* of his bills. (Oh yes he complained about the amounts, like we all do...)
**I took Dad to ER on a Friday in January; he stayed the whole weekend "for observation" so it didn't count as an admission for Medicare Inpatient purposes, then he went home Monday. (Swollen prostate had blocked urethra-- catheter placement ended up being permanent from then on.)
**By the end of February, I was able to get him into a skilled nursing facility. He needed way more care than I could provide but was still mentally sharp and ambulatory. (He was able to pay oop for the facility, fortunately, as he didn't have LTC coverage.)
**Hospice staff and treatments were 100% covered, they had visited him at his house, and then later at the nursing home.
**Rx coverage had very low co-pays, bills were sent monthly and Dad paid timely, by check.
**Dad passed away in June. He was up 'n' at 'em until just a few days beforehand and declined rapidly at the end. Bam!
----------
I've been diligent about picking up his mail, paying his bills, cancelling services and all that other stuff. Didn't find anything outstanding, unusual or in arrears until...
Three bills arrived in late October:
2 of them (30 bucks a pop) with the dates he was hospitalized in January. No doctor name, no description other than the billing codes (which I can't even look up to see their full description, because the gd AMA has *copyrighted* them and I'm not an authorized entity!)
The other with date he signed in to nursing home, but again-- no doctor name, just a billing code w/o full description and they want $142 for that one.
I researched the billing outfit and found his ER Dr on their list of clients. Didn't recognize any other names, so don't know who they represented for, well, what exactly? Did some Dr somewhere need to "allow" him to check into a private-pay arrangement at the nursing home?
Anyway, 2 weeks after the first 3 bills... the "hospitalists" sent another 3 bills (for the same things) NOW stating these were "final notice" and would be sent to collection if not paid within 10 days. F'ing BS-- I'd only just sent their payments out!
So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before another month is up?
Very... Off-putting... to say the least!
**Dad had Medicare A/B and Medicare Advantage. Seemed like he paid a heckuvalot in copays in his last couple of years, but he didn't dispute the *legitimacy* of his bills. (Oh yes he complained about the amounts, like we all do...)
**I took Dad to ER on a Friday in January; he stayed the whole weekend "for observation" so it didn't count as an admission for Medicare Inpatient purposes, then he went home Monday. (Swollen prostate had blocked urethra-- catheter placement ended up being permanent from then on.)
**By the end of February, I was able to get him into a skilled nursing facility. He needed way more care than I could provide but was still mentally sharp and ambulatory. (He was able to pay oop for the facility, fortunately, as he didn't have LTC coverage.)
**Hospice staff and treatments were 100% covered, they had visited him at his house, and then later at the nursing home.
**Rx coverage had very low co-pays, bills were sent monthly and Dad paid timely, by check.
**Dad passed away in June. He was up 'n' at 'em until just a few days beforehand and declined rapidly at the end. Bam!
----------
I've been diligent about picking up his mail, paying his bills, cancelling services and all that other stuff. Didn't find anything outstanding, unusual or in arrears until...
Three bills arrived in late October:
2 of them (30 bucks a pop) with the dates he was hospitalized in January. No doctor name, no description other than the billing codes (which I can't even look up to see their full description, because the gd AMA has *copyrighted* them and I'm not an authorized entity!)
The other with date he signed in to nursing home, but again-- no doctor name, just a billing code w/o full description and they want $142 for that one.
I researched the billing outfit and found his ER Dr on their list of clients. Didn't recognize any other names, so don't know who they represented for, well, what exactly? Did some Dr somewhere need to "allow" him to check into a private-pay arrangement at the nursing home?
Anyway, 2 weeks after the first 3 bills... the "hospitalists" sent another 3 bills (for the same things) NOW stating these were "final notice" and would be sent to collection if not paid within 10 days. F'ing BS-- I'd only just sent their payments out!
So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before another month is up?
Very... Off-putting... to say the least!
Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (gP/Z3)
243
Mike Hammer, prayers for your pooch
Posted by: VM's phone at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (EGSGm)
244
The economic illiteracy and general ignorance and laziness of most people is nowhere more spectacularly on display than in the health care area.
Posted by: rhomboid
=========
I wonder what stealth fixes would be possible.
The economic illiteracy and general ignorance and laziness of most people is nowhere more spectacularly on display than in the health care area.
Posted by: rhomboid
=========
I wonder what stealth fixes would be possible.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (13CQC)
245
there's *one* shipyard that can build nuke aircraft carriers. Not a natural market of supply and demand.
=====
Ongoing wish for Christmas for the US -- at least two icebreakers.
=====
Ongoing wish for Christmas for the US -- at least two icebreakers.
Posted by: mustbequantum at December 07, 2019 02:03 PM (MIKMs)
246
By golly, I damned near wrecked everything, eh? What a legacy!
Posted by: Baracky O'Cracky at December 07, 2019 02:03 PM (EgshT)
247
Anyway, 2 weeks after the first 3 bills... the "hospitalists" sent another 3 bills (for the same things) NOW stating these were "final notice" and would be sent to collection if not paid within 10 days. F'ing BS-- I'd only just sent their payments out!
So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before another month is up?
Very... Off-putting... to say the least!
When my FiL died, we had several credit card bills come in well after the fact. Just under his name, not my MiL or anyone else.
We simply told them he was dead. No one to collect from. Too bad for them.
Anyway, 2 weeks after the first 3 bills... the "hospitalists" sent another 3 bills (for the same things) NOW stating these were "final notice" and would be sent to collection if not paid within 10 days. F'ing BS-- I'd only just sent their payments out!
So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before another month is up?
Very... Off-putting... to say the least!
When my FiL died, we had several credit card bills come in well after the fact. Just under his name, not my MiL or anyone else.
We simply told them he was dead. No one to collect from. Too bad for them.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 02:03 PM (oVJmc)
248
Teagan was a trap.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 02:04 PM (CtABd)
249
>>What about those medical bills that appear many months after the fact? What the hell? . . . So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and
then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before
another month is up?
YES, this!! It took you many months to bill and suddenly it's urgent, and it's for stuff that the insurance company was supposed to cover, so now you have to get on the phone with the insurance agency, and only they can discuss it with the hospital, and you have to hope that they connect and work it out while *you* are sitting there with the bill should it not be resolved.
Not to mention the occasional double-billing, where it's been a year, so you have to go back and review the insurance statement sent at the time, the initial billing, and so on.
then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before
another month is up?
YES, this!! It took you many months to bill and suddenly it's urgent, and it's for stuff that the insurance company was supposed to cover, so now you have to get on the phone with the insurance agency, and only they can discuss it with the hospital, and you have to hope that they connect and work it out while *you* are sitting there with the bill should it not be resolved.
Not to mention the occasional double-billing, where it's been a year, so you have to go back and review the insurance statement sent at the time, the initial billing, and so on.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:05 PM (bDqIh)
250
So, wtf with waiting 8 freaking months to send a "first billing" and
then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before
another month is up?
=====
Send certified copy of death certificate with copy of first billing and 'final notice'.
Amazing how those disappear, especially if you don't open a formal 'estate' after death.
then whammo, "final notice" complete with threatening language before
another month is up?
=====
Send certified copy of death certificate with copy of first billing and 'final notice'.
Amazing how those disappear, especially if you don't open a formal 'estate' after death.
Posted by: mustbequantum at December 07, 2019 02:06 PM (MIKMs)
251
Do we have the best heslhhcare system in the world ?
Or is it one of those socialist ones like Switzerland or Ireland?
Or is it one of those socialist ones like Switzerland or Ireland?
Posted by: Kurt at December 07, 2019 02:06 PM (G3z3D)
252
Kurt brings the mindfarts.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 02:10 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 02:11 PM (aFGPu)
254
I haven't studied it, but the problem is with the blue collar guy that did not have company insurance (part time, self employed, contractor, whatever). So he couldn't afford the insurance, and the house payment. It was not the $4200 that broke him, it was a stroke and stints that cost $200,000 (or whatever). He was not overextended ... be was priced out of the market ... $20k/year for his family, $6K deductible. (idk how "Obamacare" supplemented those prices, but it was almost that high just for me alone, refusing Obamacare)
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (Cus5s)
--
I'm not saying there weren't 2-3% of situations that happened that way, but the studies that were pushing Obamacare.
It's hard to believe they allow it to stay up, but from WaPo:
March 2018
"Barack Obama, for example, was fond of saying that "the cost of health care now causes a bankruptcy in America every 30 seconds."...
But behind the scenes, the debate has continued. And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists... The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent
https://tinyurl.com/weyvd9z
---
Statistically a non-problem.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 01:59 PM (Cus5s)
--
I'm not saying there weren't 2-3% of situations that happened that way, but the studies that were pushing Obamacare.
It's hard to believe they allow it to stay up, but from WaPo:
March 2018
"Barack Obama, for example, was fond of saying that "the cost of health care now causes a bankruptcy in America every 30 seconds."...
But behind the scenes, the debate has continued. And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists... The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent
https://tinyurl.com/weyvd9z
---
Statistically a non-problem.
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:12 PM (yS1Ln)
255
The other thing that happens all the time is that we go in for a procedure (MRI, heart cath) and provide the insurance info during check-in. Months later we receive a bill for the whole thing, despite it being covered. Contact the hospital and again provide the insurance and they're like, "Oh, OK, we'll contact them for reimbursement." - wtf? Other times we have been told the initial insurance coverage was denied because the insurer said they weren't sure they were the only insurance we had. Hospital billing is more complicated because there's a third party, and there are delays between when there is an issue/dispute/dropped ball between the hospital and insurer, and when you are notified about it.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:12 PM (bDqIh)
256
The other thing that happens all the time is that we go in for a procedure (MRI, heart cath) and provide the insurance info during check-in. Months later we receive a bill for the whole thing, despite it being covered.
--
Yeah, I think that's part of why they send bills out to everyone immediately. Do you have any idea how much interest those companies can earn on overpayments that they don't have to return for months?
--
Yeah, I think that's part of why they send bills out to everyone immediately. Do you have any idea how much interest those companies can earn on overpayments that they don't have to return for months?
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:15 PM (yS1Ln)
257
I think that there is a law that healthcare bills can only go into collections after 6 months
Posted by: VM's phone at December 07, 2019 02:17 PM (EGSGm)
258
Been livin' most your lives in a Bolshevik-run paradise.
Posted by: Baracky O'Cracky at December 07, 2019 02:17 PM (EgshT)
259
By golly, I damned near wrecked everything, eh? What a legacy!
Posted by: Baracky O'Cracky at December 07, 2019 02:03 PM (EgshT)
Yes Urkel, you did do that
By golly, I damned near wrecked everything, eh? What a legacy!
Posted by: Baracky O'Cracky at December 07, 2019 02:03 PM (EgshT)
Yes Urkel, you did do that
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 02:18 PM (aFGPu)
260
JQ, I'm very sorry for your loss
Posted by: VM's phone at December 07, 2019 02:18 PM (EGSGm)
261
>>Yeah, I think that's part of why they send bills out to everyone
immediately. Do you have any idea how much interest those companies can
earn on overpayments that they don't have to return for months?
Yeah, hadn't thought of that.
I know that dealing with insurers can be a PITA for hospitals, but there are times I get the feeling they don't try so hard because we've signed something that says we'll pay whatever the insurer doesn't. Hey, if they drop the ball, or the insurer's being a pain, just bill the patient. It's a safety net.
So much of the payment process is in the dark for the patient - we don't know the itemized charges going in, the reimbursement is a conversation between the insurer and the hospital, but you get the surprise bill many months later should things not go as expected. If you were part of this from the get-go it would be easier, such as with Trump's regulation that costs be published.
immediately. Do you have any idea how much interest those companies can
earn on overpayments that they don't have to return for months?
Yeah, hadn't thought of that.
I know that dealing with insurers can be a PITA for hospitals, but there are times I get the feeling they don't try so hard because we've signed something that says we'll pay whatever the insurer doesn't. Hey, if they drop the ball, or the insurer's being a pain, just bill the patient. It's a safety net.
So much of the payment process is in the dark for the patient - we don't know the itemized charges going in, the reimbursement is a conversation between the insurer and the hospital, but you get the surprise bill many months later should things not go as expected. If you were part of this from the get-go it would be easier, such as with Trump's regulation that costs be published.
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:23 PM (bDqIh)
262
Super late to this party, but the biggest issue in my estimation is the existence of an oligopsony in health care. There are, by and large, only a handful of large entities (government, major insurers) that are paying for and effectively setting the prices of health care goods and services. The usual pricing signals between the party actually furnishing the good or service and the end consumer of the good or service simply aren't there. And because commercial insurers frequenty take their cues from Medicare for pricing, the government more or less sets prices for a lot of things, and this creates serious distortions. This goes back decades and has evolved into the mess we see today.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:26 PM (NWiLs)
263
Man, all that erudition and insight and nobody's gonna see it. *sigh*
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:28 PM (NWiLs)
264
Repost it in the chess thread
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:29 PM (yS1Ln)
265
If you were self-employed and someone in your family came down with a long term illness you, within two years, were priced out of the market.
Thank you BC.
Thank you BC.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 07, 2019 02:30 PM (W54U5)
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:32 PM (bDqIh)
267
264 Repost it in the chess thread
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:29 PM (yS1Ln)
Capital idea, simply capital!
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:29 PM (yS1Ln)
Capital idea, simply capital!
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:32 PM (NWiLs)
268
Man, all that erudition and insight and nobody's gonna see it. *sigh*
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:28 PM (NWiLs)
See what? /s
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:28 PM (NWiLs)
See what? /s
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 02:33 PM (aFGPu)
269
266 >>Man, all that erudition and insight and nobody's gonna see it. *sigh*
I saw it, Insom!
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:32 PM (bDqIh)
Yay! And thanks for saying so!
I saw it, Insom!
Posted by: Lizzy at December 07, 2019 02:32 PM (bDqIh)
Yay! And thanks for saying so!
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:33 PM (NWiLs)
270
- - - But behind the scenes, the debate has continued. And last week, the New England Journal of Medicine published a new estimate done by a team of health and labor economists... The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent
https://tinyurl.com/weyvd9z
---
Statistically a non-problem.
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:12 PM (yS1Ln)
My calculator say that 4% = 14,000,000
https://tinyurl.com/weyvd9z
---
Statistically a non-problem.
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 02:12 PM (yS1Ln)
My calculator say that 4% = 14,000,000
Posted by: Braenyard at December 07, 2019 02:34 PM (W54U5)
271
268 Man, all that erudition and insight and nobody's gonna see it. *sigh*
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:28 PM (NWiLs)
See what? /s
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 02:33 PM (aFGPu)
This: 🖕
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:28 PM (NWiLs)
See what? /s
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 02:33 PM (aFGPu)
This: 🖕
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:34 PM (NWiLs)
272
Infidel. FWIW, since it's an open thread, I can recommend this tiramisu recipe: https://tinyurl.com/yd9v3yk6
I'd never made it before, and this came out great and got rave reviews, even from the non-dessert eaters.
I'd never made it before, and this came out great and got rave reviews, even from the non-dessert eaters.
Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at December 07, 2019 02:35 PM (S+f+m)
Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 07, 2019 02:35 PM (1g7ch)
274
273 And all of this insurance because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 07, 2019 02:35 PM (1g7ch)
And thus ZeroCare was born.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 07, 2019 02:35 PM (1g7ch)
And thus ZeroCare was born.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 02:36 PM (NWiLs)
275
"No, complete and fundamental difference between private goods and public
goods, health care and defense procurement being textbook examples of
the difference." rhomboid
what are you saying "No" to?
Ideally defense is purely government, and some waste might afford us the opportunity of remaining as the super power. Health care for returning military could be made more open to private servers ... I think that is suggested.
But defense is now also academic research, such as what helped Google or others, where the research was gifted, then basically shared with China. Huawei now becomes a major threat, and that too (I'm guessing) was stolen out of US funded academic research.
Health care should be mostly private enterprise sure, and education, and most things. But much of industry is now subsidized by governments trying to "corner the market" ... China used to say 25 in 25 (something like that) ... meaning they were subsidizing 25 industries they had targeted as production they wanted to dominate. So for US to compete globally might not be as simple as turning it over to the private "free market". Economics is warfare, education has become warfare, open borders is warfare ... national "common defense" has to broaden out beyond military. imo defense of liberty and heritage ... Western Civ itself, is part of the deal.
goods, health care and defense procurement being textbook examples of
the difference." rhomboid
what are you saying "No" to?
Ideally defense is purely government, and some waste might afford us the opportunity of remaining as the super power. Health care for returning military could be made more open to private servers ... I think that is suggested.
But defense is now also academic research, such as what helped Google or others, where the research was gifted, then basically shared with China. Huawei now becomes a major threat, and that too (I'm guessing) was stolen out of US funded academic research.
Health care should be mostly private enterprise sure, and education, and most things. But much of industry is now subsidized by governments trying to "corner the market" ... China used to say 25 in 25 (something like that) ... meaning they were subsidizing 25 industries they had targeted as production they wanted to dominate. So for US to compete globally might not be as simple as turning it over to the private "free market". Economics is warfare, education has become warfare, open borders is warfare ... national "common defense" has to broaden out beyond military. imo defense of liberty and heritage ... Western Civ itself, is part of the deal.
Posted by: illiniwek at December 07, 2019 02:36 PM (Cus5s)
276
4% of bankruptcy
.uscourts.gov/just facts consumer bankruptcy filings 2006-2017
https://tinyurl.com/sc4owe4
12.8M in this period I make out to be 512,000 from medical issues.
.uscourts.gov/just facts consumer bankruptcy filings 2006-2017
https://tinyurl.com/sc4owe4
12.8M in this period I make out to be 512,000 from medical issues.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 02:45 PM (ZCEU2)
277
These Epstein lights won't hang themselves, so better go do it.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 02:45 PM (ZCEU2)
278
Had some Mexican't for lunch. I may die, haven't decided as of yet.
Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 02:48 PM (CtABd)
279
Well, I had to open an Estate, and these bills just squeaked in under the cut-off wire for claims. (Billing outfit probably pays someone to scan legal notices.)
Too late to dispute; I paid them. Not that I didn't laugh about their threat to ruin Dad's credit rating, lol! There had better not be any more of this sh!t, though...
Dad trashed all his medical billings after paying, so I don't have written records of everything. I do remember most of this year's events, though, as I was his primary caregiver and source of transportation.
Accounts closed/transferred to Estate, Auto-pay stuff like cellphone, TV, utilities cancelled and/or changed to snail mail billing to my addy... &ect.
The real fun will be his personal and estate tax filings. I've got to make appt w/tax accountant-- pretty sure these are beyond my ability.
Too late to dispute; I paid them. Not that I didn't laugh about their threat to ruin Dad's credit rating, lol! There had better not be any more of this sh!t, though...
Dad trashed all his medical billings after paying, so I don't have written records of everything. I do remember most of this year's events, though, as I was his primary caregiver and source of transportation.
Accounts closed/transferred to Estate, Auto-pay stuff like cellphone, TV, utilities cancelled and/or changed to snail mail billing to my addy... &ect.
The real fun will be his personal and estate tax filings. I've got to make appt w/tax accountant-- pretty sure these are beyond my ability.
Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 02:49 PM (gP/Z3)
280
Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at December 07, 2019 02:35 PM (S+f+m)
Thank you! Bookmarked. May short the coffee a little and use dark rum.
Thank you! Bookmarked. May short the coffee a little and use dark rum.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 02:56 PM (O/X1S)
281
The real fun will be his personal and estate tax filings. I've got to make appt w/tax accountant-- pretty sure these are beyond my ability.
Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 02:49 PM (gP/Z3)
JQ, they are. Trust me, I had to go thru this last spring. Let me know if you have any questions. A few here have my personal email. Slap, WDS, qdp.
Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 02:49 PM (gP/Z3)
JQ, they are. Trust me, I had to go thru this last spring. Let me know if you have any questions. A few here have my personal email. Slap, WDS, qdp.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 02:59 PM (O/X1S)
282
Oh, and Emmie too.
Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 02:59 PM (O/X1S)
283
My own personal experience with healthcare is limited, but as an example. Went in to the hospital one night with a kidney stone that would not move. Total Bill: $1500-2000. In this process the only things I had were a CT scan, a bag of fluid and synthetic, medical heroin.
The cost of the fluids and drugs? Around $100-150. Everything else was taken up by the CT scan and analysis of said scan. Which was just verifying that indeed, I had a kidney stone.
That seems kind of insane to me.
The cost of the fluids and drugs? Around $100-150. Everything else was taken up by the CT scan and analysis of said scan. Which was just verifying that indeed, I had a kidney stone.
That seems kind of insane to me.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 03:01 PM (ycWCI)
284
Pet thread is nood.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 03:06 PM (ycWCI)
285
4% of bankruptcy
.uscourts.gov/just facts consumer bankruptcy filings 2006-2017
https://tinyurl.com/sc4owe4
12.8M in this period I make out to be 512,000 from medical issues.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 02:45 PM (ZCEU2)
--
512K over 11 years.
Hey, let's spend four or five trillion dollars because something unpleasant happened to one tenth of one percent of the population.
.uscourts.gov/just facts consumer bankruptcy filings 2006-2017
https://tinyurl.com/sc4owe4
12.8M in this period I make out to be 512,000 from medical issues.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 02:45 PM (ZCEU2)
--
512K over 11 years.
Hey, let's spend four or five trillion dollars because something unpleasant happened to one tenth of one percent of the population.
Posted by: Moron Robbie abridged at December 07, 2019 03:12 PM (yS1Ln)
286
I suspect a lot of "medical bankruptcies" are caused by buying whores & fireworks instead of health insurance.
Errol Flynn famously said, "Anyone who has $1000 left when he dies is a failure." Errol walked the walk, too.
I hate it that the tail which wags the dog in our society is far too often the irresponsible derelicts.
Errol Flynn famously said, "Anyone who has $1000 left when he dies is a failure." Errol walked the walk, too.
I hate it that the tail which wags the dog in our society is far too often the irresponsible derelicts.
Posted by: mnw at December 07, 2019 03:15 PM (Cssks)
287
Thanks, Infidel! So kind of you to offer!
I have a trusted referral, so will make appt and find out what documents I'll need to locate.
Dad kept fairly good records up until the final month or two, when he'd feel so lousy some days and get confused.
He may have trashed some important papers. His personal files seem organized, though not quite complete.
I have a trusted referral, so will make appt and find out what documents I'll need to locate.
Dad kept fairly good records up until the final month or two, when he'd feel so lousy some days and get confused.
He may have trashed some important papers. His personal files seem organized, though not quite complete.
Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 03:21 PM (gP/Z3)
288
Another job completed, only 1 hour this time
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 03:49 PM (ZCEU2)
289
Solve the medical ills by making it ALL government! Hire all the docs and nurses and let us into the gov't employees' unions! It works so well in the VA and TSA. In fact, include the TSA and Biden in health care, they'd just need to document what they feel!
Posted by: Hall Dall MD at December 07, 2019 04:10 PM (KDTOE)
290
In reality, there is no need to fix medical care, it is already perfect due to Obamacare! Or so I have been assured.
Posted by: Hall Dall MD at December 07, 2019 04:12 PM (KDTOE)
291
Yes, it's odd that governments have subsidized and distorted health insurance policies and markets, one would think for personal profit motives. But there's something slightly more insidious, in that politicians seem to want to promise all kinds of medical care, if you let them control it all and make life-changing decisions in what medical care you can receive. This looks like a matter of people's desire for arbitrary control of others. I thought this was odd until I read what is happening in the UK.
There, the NHS they has determined that medical care will be withheld if someone is not PC; that is, not agreeing with government sanctioned "human rights" of "dignity and respect", such as the government's position on transgenderism, "transgender" pronoun mandates, presumably including it's teaching of transgender and gender fluid sexual matters to children, and every other form of false phobia.
The moral is, as always: If they "give" it to you, and then they become the sole provider, they can then take it away, if you think or say the wrong thing. And this I understand.
There, the NHS they has determined that medical care will be withheld if someone is not PC; that is, not agreeing with government sanctioned "human rights" of "dignity and respect", such as the government's position on transgenderism, "transgender" pronoun mandates, presumably including it's teaching of transgender and gender fluid sexual matters to children, and every other form of false phobia.
The moral is, as always: If they "give" it to you, and then they become the sole provider, they can then take it away, if you think or say the wrong thing. And this I understand.
Posted by: Flicker at December 07, 2019 05:10 PM (mKCGE)
292
Emmie, I use a little piece of paper to keep the gum off the lens and then use duct tape, stays on very well.
Posted by: Flicker at December 07, 2019 05:14 PM (mKCGE)
293
In my former life as an HR manager, I came up with the brilliant/crazy idea to ask local health care providers to BID on various areas of medicine. You know, like Purchasing 101. Yes, people said I was crazy. Said I would get no offers. But I represented approx. 17000 employees and their families in a smallish town with 2 competing hospitals and a bunch of doctors from every discipline. Long story short: I got quotes. Lots of them. Got bids from local pharmacies for prescription drugs. Doctors asked "what do I get for lower fees?" I said: more patients. It was all voluntary. Every employee had a Health Cost Coalition membership card to present for the lower fee. Best example/quote: prescription drugs for 25% below WHOLESALE! Yes, it worked.
Posted by: devan at December 07, 2019 06:06 PM (kC+1/)
294
Obamacare, rape the masses, jeopardize people jobs for medicines greed. Took a sleep test, was diagnosed in need of a bi-pap breathing machine. Later a fellow user told me all people tested were diagnosed as needing a b-pap machine. Machine was of littler use, butif you didn't use it every day the government would cancel its part and you haveto the the $8,000 price tag and lose your CDL drivers liscense. The machine is probably a $100 cheap plastic breathing machine.with a tattletale cellphone in it. The breathing mask is cheap and quickly wears out, the government pays $250 on it, you pay about $32. The exact same product form the same company of manufactureer on ebay is $30. The sham/scam nature of turning ht government/taxpayers treasury over the the rich and wealthy, utopian care is REAL. How they must laugh while filling their pockets with their ill gotten gain. A fool born every minute and two to take -em. PT Barnum sure understood the liberals and their age that was coming.
Posted by: ron n. at December 08, 2019 12:06 PM (3qP6l)
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