Gun Thread: Rifling and Twist Rate [Weasel]

Rifling - we've all heard the term, but what does it mean? Rifling a barrel is the process of machining helical grooves inside the bore to impart spin on a bullet and stabilize it in flight. Credit for the idea goes to one of two inventors sometime in the 15th or 16th century. A spinning projectile is much more accurate to longer distances than one which is merely lobbed from a smoothbore barrel, and I'm not sure why it took the British so long to catch on. Let's take a look at the process, shall we?

Cutaway 105mm Tank Gun Barrel

There are three general machining techniques used to achieve the pattern of lands (high part) and grooves (low part); cut , button, and broach rifling. In "cut" rifling, an adjustable cutter is pulled through a cold barrel multiple times to make a single groove. The process is repeated until the desired number of grooves and depth are achieved. Cut rifling is an older and slower process, but results in very accurate barrels in the hands of a skilled machinist. The second is "button" rifling, where a very hard bullet shaped button is pushed or pulled through a cold barrel displacing metal to impart the desired pattern in a single pass. This is a more modern process which lends itself to mass production. Button rifled barrels can also be accurate. Lastly, "broach" rifling is sort of a hybrid of cut and button processes. A broach is a metal bar with multiple cutters of increasing depth which cut the pattern in a single pass. There are pros and cons for each method depending on the application and your budget.

Q: Gee, Weasel, that's fascinating! What do you use in your match guns?
A: Thanks for asking - I use barrels which are cut rifled.

Q: Excellent choice for accuracy! How about all of your other guns?
A: Uh, well, I don't really know and never gave it much thought. No more questions!

Regardless of the rifling process used, a key element is the twist rate, or the distance along the length of the barrel it takes the rifling to make one complete revolution. This twist rate should be stamped on the barrel, but can also be measured at home with a cleaning rod. Without delving into a whole lot of math and aerodynamic theory, the twist rate is important because different combinations of bullet design factors require different amounts of gyroscopic spin created by the rifling to properly stabilize them in flight.

It is not, as stabilization charts would imply, solely the weight of the bullet that makes a difference, but also length and several other factors including muzzle velocity and the bullets ballistic coefficient. The general rule is longer and heavier bullets require more spin or "faster" rifling to stabilize them. Ammunition manufacturers list the bullet weight on the packaging and that's what is used to generally group bullets in stabilization charts. For the aspiring Rocket Surgeons out there, many online stabilization calculators are available which are useful for determining if a rifle will stabilize a particular bullet. Here's one from Berger and another from JBM Ballistics if you're curious and have some basic information on a particular bullet. Both of these use the Miller Twist Rule and the required inputs can usually be found buried somewhere in the bullet manufacturer's website. The Berger calculator helpfully contains a library of their bullet specifications, but if you don't know what bullet you're using and the necessary data, just stick with a chart.

Sample 5.56mm Stabilization Chart

So why am I telling you all this? Very simply put, if you are wondering why some ammo shoots well in your rife while other ammo doesn't, it may be that you have not correctly matched a particular bullet and load to your rifle barrel twist. If you under stabilize a bullet or spin it too slowly it will not fly true and may begin to tumble (not good), and if you over-stabliize or spin a bullet too bigly, the jackets can separate and the bullet will disintegrate (very not good). Scroll down in the following articles here and here for recommended bullet weights by caliber and twist rate.

Suggested Reading
Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting - Volume 1 by Bryan Litz. This is a serious work not recommended for the math adverse. Having said that, the concepts are well presented and it's well worth your time, particularly if you are interested in shooting at longer distances. For those simply wanting to improve group size at a few hundred yards, a general understanding of the material and concepts will suffice.

So how many people believe they have used mismatched bullets and rifle twists, and what were the results? Have you since used a stability calculator? Has anyone had good luck outside the recommended performance envelopes or with marginally stabilized bullets?

*******

Link-O-Rama
American Rifleman Article: Rifling
Berger Bullets FAQ: Twist Rates
Guns and Ammo Article: Pairing Ammo and Twist Rates
Chuck Hawks: Rifling Twist Rates
Bison Ballistics: Barrel Twist and Bullet Stability

***Mail Bag***

PSA courtesy of our pal ibguy who reminds us: cigarette smoking is bad for your health!

*************

Please note the new and improved gmail account morongunthread at gmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 BOOM!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 30, 2019 07:01 PM (kQs4Y)

2 BaNG!

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:02 PM (z2xce)

3 That last picture is too funny.

Posted by: bluebell at June 30, 2019 07:02 PM (aXucN)

4 GUUUUNZZZ!!!!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:03 PM (NWiLs)

5 D'oh!!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 30, 2019 07:03 PM (438dO)

6 Let's twist again
Like we did last summer!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:04 PM (NWiLs)

7 now do HVFSDS-AP rounds.

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:05 PM (z2xce)

8 Let's shoot Grandpa!

Let's shoot, Grandpa!

Proof once again that punctuation saves lives.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:05 PM (NWiLs)

9 I did wonder if the twist rate was different on various barrels.
I did ask Weasel if opposite twisting was done and he did say yes but not often.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:06 PM (BbGew)

10 The model for Dick Cheney's smoking reduction program.

Posted by: DaveA at June 30, 2019 07:06 PM (FhXTo)

11 I did ask Weasel if opposite twisting was done and he did say yes but not often.
Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:06 PM (BbGew)

Only in the Southern Hemisphere.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (NWiLs)

12 Just bought a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 today. My first rifle and lever gun!

Posted by: In Exile at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (SDmIR)

13 ISTR that you can forge rifling by heating up the blank, then forging it onto an inside mold.

or am i just confused?

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (z2xce)

14 9 I did wonder if the twist rate was different on various barrels.
I did ask Weasel if opposite twisting was done and he did say yes but not often.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:06 PM (BbGew)
--------
Most are right hand twist but I think some are left hand twist.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:08 PM (MVjcR)

15 Oh, good! A gun thread for geeks.
Reporting for duty, SIR!

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:09 PM (pP8cY)

16 13 ISTR that you can forge rifling by heating up the blank, then forging it onto an inside mold.

or am i just confused?

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (z2xce)
--------
In ripping off material for this thread I did see some information on making your own rifled barrels but decided not to start down that particular rabbit hole!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:09 PM (MVjcR)

17 First thing I though was 'Lucy, you got a lot of splaining to do'. I know, not a redhead.

Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 07:10 PM (UUkQp)

18 I have plenty of .22LR already, but I looked a few days ago online, and the prices for decent everyday plinking rounds have dropped to levels I never thought I would see again.

There were some Federal 36 grain CPHP's in bulk for 4 cents each. I personally have had great luck with these.

But I still have many thousands of shots to take before I need more.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 07:10 PM (sy5kK)

19 Insom! Who were you twisting with last summer?

And yes, I went to the range with soon to be Marine son He was popping the cherry on his new Walther PPQ. It's hard to be inaccurate with such a lovely pistol. He shot the middle out of the target while I put a gaping hole in the head of the target with my Glock 19. My Glock is a bit clunkier, and the trigger not as smooth as his PPQ, but it's my eotwawki gun, so there's that.

Good day at the range, mark let us both shoot a few of his big CZs. And one of the guys next to us let me fire his AR. Now that made a big boom!

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 07:10 PM (PkVlr)

20 Is that Patricia Neal in that last photo? Kind of looks like her.

Posted by: Tuna at June 30, 2019 07:11 PM (jm1YL)

21 15 Oh, good! A gun thread for geeks.
Reporting for duty, SIR!

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:09 PM (pP8cY)
-----
Hey amigo - save your allowance for the Litz book suggested above!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:11 PM (MVjcR)

22 Barrel on a M-198 155mm towed howitzer had 64 lands & grooves. At least that's what was pounded into my head at cannoncocker school @ lovely Fort Sill Okla. it's not like I ever counted the stupid things. SERIOUS QUESTION: Since all big boy guns like the tank gun tube pictured above have a counter bore, why don't small arms barrels?

Posted by: Ug of Gug at June 30, 2019 07:11 PM (OKp8N)

23 If you under stabilize a bullet or spin it too slowly it will not fly true and may begin to tumble (not good),

Ask Baron bon Richthofen about the one that tumbled in under his arm and tore shit up.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 07:12 PM (LDbTO)

24 Just bought a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 today. My first rifle and lever gun!
Posted by: In Exile

And that's how the addiction started, your honor.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 07:13 PM (LDbTO)

25 Maybe all of NZ Frank's barrels go the wrong way

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:13 PM (BbGew)

26 Marlin 336 in .30-30...
What a beautiful weapon!
What NOT to go shoot 100 rounds with!
Sight it in, call it good.
Go hunting.
Congrats.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 07:15 PM (d9iRk)

27 ISTR that you can forge rifling by heating up the blank, then forging it onto an inside mold.

or am i just confused?

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (z2xce)

I'd typed this and then noticed that you'd mentioned it upthread:

There are also forged barrels that are a flat bar wrapped around a mandrel like a gun burrito and welded together along the length and then cut-rifled, but only people like JTB and GreyFox know about that.

To answer your question, I think the forging of the barrel is done first, and the rifling is cut as another step.

*looks around for AltonJackson*

Hey, I looked at a CZ Drake 20ga today. It's more than I have budgeted at the moment, but I think it might be worth saving for. It's pretty.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:15 PM (t+qrx)

28 SERIOUS QUESTION: Since all big boy guns like the tank gun tube pictured above have a counter bore, why don't small arms barrels?

Posted by: Ug of Gug at June 30, 2019 07:11 PM (OKp8N)
-------
My match barrels have an 11 degree counterbore. It's fairly common in custom work.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:15 PM (MVjcR)

29 -
--
ISTR that you can forge rifling by heating up the blank, then forging it onto an inside mold.

or am i just confused?

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM

I believe (and could easily be wrong) that most hammer forged barrels are made cold (no added heat). I think Steyr uses hammer forged barrels, as many others do.

Posted by: irright at June 30, 2019 07:17 PM (RVcmP)

30

Rifling inside barrel of USS Iowa's Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun

https://tinyurl.com/yy32tkfj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 30, 2019 07:17 PM (aKsyK)

31 what "counter bore"?

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:17 PM (z2xce)

32 So that body chart.
Green = good?
Red = bad?
Yellow = fair to poor.

If so, then all of those 1x7 AR barrels not so great for 55 gr bullets?

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:18 PM (jGqoT)

33 I dunno about "broach rifling", but in general machine shop practice, broaching is entirely a cutting operation.

There are also hammer forged barrels, in which the rifling and contour are simultaneously made.

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at June 30, 2019 07:19 PM (jkv81)

34 My hammer forged comment was about modern style firearms.

Posted by: irright at June 30, 2019 07:19 PM (RVcmP)

35 Rifling inside barrel of USS Iowa's Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun

https://tinyurl.com/yy32tkfj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 30, 2019 07:17 PM (aKsyK)
------
How cool is that?!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:19 PM (MVjcR)

36 https://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/05/
rifling-manufacturing-hammer-forged.html

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (z2xce)

37 Great as always, Weasel!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (gC2IV)

38 Helloooooo nurse!

Only twisting I did last summer was twisting in the wind.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (NWiLs)

39 For an interesting read on using lasers for non-destructive testing and barrel inspection, check out: http://www.laser-ndt.com/
Laser Techniques is an interesting little company near Seattle that does some incredible work. They use lasers to examine and measure the pitting and general wear-n-tear of barrels and breeches. They can do everything from 5.56 up to 155mm howitzers. Laser are incredible accurate and can detect issues at the micron level.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (axyOa)

40 So that body chart.
Green = good?
Red = bad?
Yellow = fair to poor.

If so, then all of those 1x7 AR barrels not so great for 55 gr bullets?

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:18 PM (jGqoT)
------
That's the idea. Yellow is marginal stability.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (MVjcR)

41 Why, yes, Perfesser Weasel, I am saving my money for lots of stuff from this thread. Mr Litz' Applied Ballistics stays under my pillow on the osmosis theory.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (pP8cY)

42 Huh, others mentioned hammer forging while I was typing with one hand, and eating with the other. Spot on, fellow Morons!

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (jkv81)

43 I'm also starting to suspect that you are not a real weasel.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (gC2IV)

44 I remembered what I wanted to ask
Last night watch American Sniper for the half dozen times, the snipers second, what is he supposed to do besides play games on his phone?

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (BbGew)

45 My hammer forged comment was about modern style firearms.
Posted by: irright at June 30, 2019 07:19 PM (RVcmP)

Mine was about sidelock muzzleloaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yu1gIVT4hA

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (t+qrx)

46
hogmartin, is that a O/U?

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (KCxzN)

47 37 Great as always, Weasel!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (gC2IV)
---
thanks Duke!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (MVjcR)

48 hogmartin, is that a O/U?
Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (KCxzN)

It is.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:22 PM (t+qrx)

49
Achtung!

Many of the barrels of the finest firearms on Earth are manufactured using the cold-forging process.

Posted by: Heckler & Koch at June 30, 2019 07:22 PM (DMUuz)

50 When I held that gun in my hand I felt a surge of power....like what God feels like when he holds a gun.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at June 30, 2019 07:23 PM (2DOZq)

51 Boxy chart
Geez

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:23 PM (jGqoT)

52 I've seen plenty of weasel type varmints in my day. Let's just say that I don't think many of them could pull off competition shooting.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:23 PM (gC2IV)

53 -
--
My hammer forged comment was about modern style firearms.

Posted by: irright at June 30, 2019 07:19 PM (RVcmP)

Mine was about sidelock muzzleloaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yu1gIVT4hA

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM

-------------------------------------

Yep, after reading yours I realized I hadn't even thought about those.

Posted by: irright at June 30, 2019 07:23 PM (RVcmP)

54 Thanks

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:25 PM (jGqoT)

55 My Larue has a 1:8 twist, and I'm sending 55gr rounds through it. Even though that puts me firmly in the "almost bad" block on the chart, it still outshoots me.

Reliably.

I AM ramped about my suppressor stamp, though, which is finally in work.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, LOL, get fucked at June 30, 2019 07:25 PM (T8HPM)

56 37 Great as always, Weasel!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (gC2IV)
-----
Am too! Ask anyone who has met me!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:25 PM (MVjcR)

57 The sniper's spotter is the one who figures what to do next.

Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 07:26 PM (UUkQp)

58 6 37 Great as always, Weasel!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:20 PM (gC2IV)
-----
Am too! Ask anyone who has met me!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:25 PM (MVjcR)
-----
copy and paste fail.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:26 PM (MVjcR)

59 Geek out to the hammer-forging process:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y5fy6egw

Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 30, 2019 07:27 PM (DMUuz)

60 There is a company in Phoenix that makes barrels in 25mm, 30mm and 40mm.
I was fortunate to get a tour. It was both fascinating and surprisingly underwhelming. I was expecting blast furnaces, noise, steel everywhere...not a quiet, clean and calm factory. It was cool none-the-less.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:29 PM (axyOa)

61 I only have one gun that I have stabilization problems with.

Apparently in Ye Olden Days before the Miller Twist Rule was figured out, the standard twist rate for 44mag rifles was an extremely slow 1 in 38". Less than one twist in a yard! Newer rifles use much tighter rates (varies, but closer to 1:20), but there are still some that use the old rate.

Like, for example, my Rossi M92 in 44mag! Factory 240gr ammo that's not loaded hot enough comes out of that barrel tumbling like an acrobat, giving me 20" wide patterns at 15 yards. Worse accuracy than my shotguns at that distance.

Posted by: Lazy Messenger at June 30, 2019 07:29 PM (f0Pv6)

62 Counterbore is when the rifling is drilled out at the muzzle. AFAIK everything from a Ma Deuce on up has it. It prevents the barrel from splitting. First done on Civil War artillery. Sometimes it's just a litttle bit but sometimes it is fairly long. I remember the tube on the old M-102 105mm had a counterbore of 2 inches or so.

Posted by: Ug of Gug at June 30, 2019 07:29 PM (OKp8N)

63 Geek out to the hammer-forging process:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y5fy6egw
Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 30, 2019 07:27 PM (DMUuz)

Got it. I understand what irright was saying now. I'd thought the forging and rifling were still two separate processes.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:31 PM (t+qrx)

64 Possible Moki.
Pretty sure the 155 I served on used a 30 caliber rifle blank for a primer.

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:31 PM (jGqoT)

65 Is 50 caliber the size of the primer?
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 07:26 PM (WC8Gu)

It is the length of the barrel, expressed in multiples of the bore diameter.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (t+qrx)

66

I Hereby Declare July to be Second Amendment Pride month.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (UvpTf)

67 Duncanthrax @60- The process sure has come a long way for Williamsburg Virginia gunsmiths process.

Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (UUkQp)

68 Is 50 caliber the size of the primer?
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 07:26 PM

Caliber in this sense is the length of the barrel.

A 16"/50 gun is (bore) diameter 16", and the length is 50 times that (= 800 inches = 66.67 feet long)

A 5"/38 gun (formerly very common, e.g. the destroyers shelling Omaha Beach on D-Day) has a bore diameter of 5 inches, and a length of 15.83 feet.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (DMUuz)

70 Possible Moki.
Pretty sure the 155 I served on used a 30 caliber rifle blank for a primer.

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:31 PM

*****

8 inch and 175s as well. Standardized design.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (axyOa)

71 Counterbore is also a quick, cheap, um, soviet way of re-crowning old rifles. Many Mosins have counterbored barrels - they've all been re-arsenaled since they were last used in large #s during WWII, or, where they were, the Great Patriotic War.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM (QDnY+)

72 Does counterbore differ from muzzle crowning, and if so, how?

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (t+qrx)

73 41 Why, yes, Perfesser Weasel, I am saving my money for lots of stuff from this thread. Mr Litz' Applied Ballistics stays under my pillow on the osmosis theory.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (pP8cY)
------
Ha! Good idea!
Bryan Litz is a good guy and a very serious competitor. His dad is a very good shooter, too.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (MVjcR)

74
I mentioned Fluid Film, last week. No one else here uses that stuff? It's the best anti-corrosion lubricant spray out there.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (UvpTf)

75 Many of the barrels of the finest firearms on Earth are manufactured using the cold-forging process.

Posted by: Heckler & Koch

Darn. I have the porous memory of a 29 year old.

Sometime last summer Germany had to sue the crap out of someone, I think H ampersand K, for making army rifles that don't shoot.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (fuK7c)

76 Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:15 PM (t+qrx)

Forging, rifling, then heat treat I would guess.

You will like that CZ. Trap gun?

Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (kiSdp)

77 Great thread Weasel!

The only rifle I have in 1:12 twist is my old Armalite AR-180 by Howa. I have never shot anything heavier than 55 gr thru her but may do some 62 gr just to see the difference.

This week was Walther P-1 week. Shot both of my Bundeswehr surplus pistols, one made in 1979 and one made in 1981.

Accurate and fun.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (Z+IKu)

78 73 Does counterbore differ from muzzle crowning, and if so, how?

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (t+qrx)
-------
That's what I was referring to. Styles differ but it's done to protect the muzzle end if the rifling.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (MVjcR)

79
I Hereby Declare July to be Second Amendment Pride month.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM

****

Excellent!
Lets have a parade! Everyone bring their favorite 2nd Amendment piece.
Invite 50-60,000 of your friends and neighbors and lets go march around Olympia. A good starter place. We can do lunch at Evergreen State afterwards.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (axyOa)

80 Woo! Guns!

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 07:35 PM (xJa6I)

81 The reason rifling took so long to catch on is it's not hugely practical until you also have good enough metallurgy for breach loading. Even through the mid 1800s there were a lot of generals who believed smooth bore guns were more practical because they produced a greater volume of fire and didn't lose any energy to impart the spin.

When your enemy is standing shoulder to shoulder accuracy isn't hugely important. If you miss the guy you're aiming at you'll hit his buddy.

Posted by: Ace's liver at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (h2Bdk)

82 80
I Hereby Declare July to be Second Amendment Pride month.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM

****

Excellent!
Lets have a parade! Everyone bring their favorite 2nd Amendment piece.
Invite 50-60,000 of your friends and neighbors and lets go march around Olympia. A good starter place. We can do lunch at Evergreen State afterwards.
Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (axyOa)

I would LOVE to see this. Bring your most evilest of EBRs!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (NWiLs)

83 Oh oh.
Mrs D. said its almost dinner time.
Gotta go.
Great thread Weasel.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (axyOa)

84 You will like that CZ. Trap gun?
Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (kiSdp)

That's the idea. I got to shoot trap at the MIMoMe for the first time since I earned the Shotgun Shooting merit badge and I'd forgotten how much fun it is.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (t+qrx)

85
I Hereby Declare July to be Second Amendment Pride month.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:32 PM

****

Excellent!
Lets have a parade! Everyone bring their favorite 2nd Amendment piece.
Invite 50-60,000 of your friends and neighbors and lets go march around Olympia. A good starter place. We can do lunch at Evergreen State afterwards.

Posted by: Diogenes

First, we need a flag!

Wait, I think we already have one. The Don't Tread On Me flag? I forrget what it's called...

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (UvpTf)

86 so Weasel/others, I was thinking of getting a 1/8 barrel for my first AR build.

But as I intend this to be a general purpose/short range tool, and use the common 55 and 62gr bullets in it, looks like I'm in the yellow zone on that chart - for all the common AR twist rates [1/7, 1/8/, 1/9].

What gives?

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (QDnY+)

87 Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 07:34 PM (Z+IKu)
------
Thanks!
Try them side by side and let us know if you see a difference!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (MVjcR)

88 Really good rifling breakdown, Weasel. I'll check out the links later. Muzzleloader shooters are generally aware of rifling because of the huge difference between shooting patched round ball and regular bullet shapes and the industry has sorta standardized on 1 in 20 something for elongated bullets, 1 in 48 for round ball calibers up to 45, and 1 in 66 for larger caliber patched round ball loads. Custom barrels will vary a bit.

Posted by: JTB at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (bmdz3)

89 Mark, my mane man! How you?

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (NWiLs)

90 18 walmart has 22lr for 4 cents per.
Also, today is the last day to buy ammo in ca. without a background check

Posted by: MAxIE, mentioned in dispatches at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (9TR2V)

91 The best pic I've ever seen is the one where some rifleman kept loading and firing his rifle and had about 10+ bullets jammed up the barrel.

The first bullet squibbed and the rest stopped.

Why the barrel didn't explode is a mystery. It did split a little.

I think he kept on firing until the bullet couldn't seat and the bolt go into battery so it wouldn't fire.

That's what's called over focus.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (3c5uG)

92 Wait, I think we already have one. The Don't Tread On Me flag? I forrget what it's called...
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (UvpTf)

Gadsden Flag

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (NWiLs)

93 My understanding what the 2nd does on a sniper team is target acquisition, weather variables, safety for area, then phone games.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:38 PM (BbGew)

94 Wait, I think we already have one. The Don't Tread On Me flag? I forrget what it's called...
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (UvpTf)

First Navy Jack.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:38 PM (t+qrx)

95

Yes. The Gadsen flag.

Sad I don't know who Gadsen was. Maybe, at one time, I did. Senile...

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:38 PM (UvpTf)

96 It is the length of the barrel, expressed in multiples of the bore diameter.

Width

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 07:39 PM (d9iRk)

97 Counterboring is done at the chamber end of the barrel; crowning is done at the muzzle.

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at June 30, 2019 07:39 PM (jkv81)

98 98 It is the length of the barrel, expressed in multiples of the bore diameter.

Width
Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 07:39 PM (d9iRk)

Girth

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:39 PM (NWiLs)

99 A German named Dicke patented cold rotary hammer forging as a barrel making process in January 1938 (DE 2104319). The Germans made almost all their rifle and machine gun barrels during WW II by this very efficient process. Winchester adopted the process in 1964 and today almost all volume production firearms have cold hammer forged barrels. CHF produces a very serviceable barrel and, when done well, a very accurate barrel.

Alfred George Greenhill's twist rate formula is still valid for lead cored bullets, and simpler than many more modern formulae.

Posted by: 10x25mm at June 30, 2019 07:40 PM (nV+fV)

100 Thanks Diogenes.

Hogmartin and Duncanthrax too.

Knowledge on the big navy guns is pretty much non-existant.

Did enjoy the Russian commander on Iceland's line when he saw the US destroyer fire for effect in Red Storm Rising.

"Mother of God."

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:40 PM (jGqoT)

101
I wore my Gadsden Flag t-shirt today'cause I thought I might have to go to Whole Foods in The Peoples' Republik of AnnArbor

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 07:40 PM (KCxzN)

102 Girth

Goddamighty... I grinned.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (d9iRk)

103 >>I'm in the yellow zone on that chart - for all the common AR twist rates [1/7, 1/8/, 1/9].
>>What gives?
>>Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (QDnY+)

My 1:8 ARs do very well with 62gr, so I think the chart may be lacking precision in the 60-65 section. I don't have have any 1:7 barrels to test, but I had the impression those were supposed to be ok for 62gr as well...

Posted by: Lazy Messenger at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (f0Pv6)

104 so Weasel/others, I was thinking of getting a 1/8 barrel for my first AR build.

But as I intend this to be a general purpose/short range tool, and use the common 55 and 62gr bullets in it, looks like I'm in the yellow zone on that chart - for all the common AR twist rates [1/7, 1/8/, 1/9].

What gives?

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (QDnY+)
--------
I'd take the chart with a grain of salt. Being in the yellow doesn't necessarily mean it won't stabilize, because there are other factors that count. The bullet design and velocity and even atmospherics in extreme cases. I'd refer you to one of the calculators and remind you that it's all theoretical until you start shooting.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (MVjcR)

105 After Gettysburg famously arms were collected and examined finding many multiple loads. I suspect the reason for the first miss fire is the reason for subsequent miss fires.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (BbGew)

106 Long range report follows, feel free to skip.

This week was all CZ all the time.

I brought my CZ P07 with the Kadet .22 adapter, a CZ 75 and a CZ 97.

All of them shot well, very well. In fact the CZ P-07 is starting to grow on me, especially since I can use my XD holsters for them.

I brought some 115 gr and 124 gr 9mm. The 115 shot a little high (keeping in mind that CZ favor a 6 o'clock hold) and the 124 shot a little lower. But both shot good groups out of the P07 and the 75.

Surprisingly, I shot really good groups in double action mode. I have no explanations for this but it may have been better than the single action groups.

The CZ 97 is a big boy gun, the recoil impulse out of it feels very different from a 1911 or the Glock 21. Closer to the slide movement of the PPQ 45. Still, shot a fist sized hole and put all 50 rounds into it.

Noice.

If you want a hammer fired pistol, I HIGHLY recommend the CZ family.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (xJa6I)

107 no step on snek

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (t+qrx)

108 The DVD "The Gunsmith of Williamsburg" shows the process of making a rifle in colonial america. I find it fascinating. And I've seen the rifle that was made for the video. It is a work of art. Definitely worth watching. It's available on Ytube. Search on Colonial gunsmith.

Posted by: JTB at June 30, 2019 07:43 PM (bmdz3)

109 Brings back some memories of '85.

SIR, THE RIFLING IN THE BARREL OF THIS M16 IS 1 IN 12 SIR!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:44 PM (gC2IV)

110 > That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Just got back a few hours ago.

Perforated Paper at 75 yards with the MP15.

Ummmm, the grouping wasn't bad but I couldn't make small adjustments to my aim using the peep sights. The sight picture when I was hitting 9" up and to the left looks pretty much the same as when I'm dead on the target. For the kind of shooting I like to do, I gotta get a scope.

On the other hand, the rifle continues to perform flawlessly. Still have had a malfunction except for that one time after I knocked the rifle off the table.
ooops.

Posted by: ArthurK at June 30, 2019 07:44 PM (fWJWX)

111 Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:33 PM (UvpTf)

I used Fluid Film on my pickup, it repels water like crazy, but it attracts and holds dirt also.

Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 07:44 PM (kiSdp)

112 When I was driving I delivered a quantity, only about 12Klbs, of expensive steel rods (otherwise known as bar stock) to a large building out in the middle of nowhere PA. A couple of guys in flip flops, shorts with no shirts and beards down to their waist came out of the building and approached the truck. I didn't know whether to hand them the bill of lading or backup and run. Turns out they had a contract with the Army to manufacture sniper rifler barrels. The inside of the building was stuffed with mills, lathes and other machine tools. They were delight to learn I was an veteran and proceeded to pullout all manner of weapons to show me, including an M-60 mg, an M-79 launcher, reconciles rifles, bazookas etc all hidden in the attic. One of my more bizarre deliveries.

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at June 30, 2019 07:45 PM (+N0R/)

113 Why, yes, perfesser, I have had stability issues. Also, some of the bullets I shot didn't go where I wanted them to go.
Specifically, my Win 7400 shoots real good with 100 g. bullets. I bought some nice long aerodynamic looking 105 g. sierras and bergers, just sure that they would put one ragged hole in the x. Nope, they were all over the place.
When I finally ran them through a calculator, it told me that 1x9 twist was insufficient to stabilize.
Damn, that math bit me in the butt. Again.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:47 PM (pP8cY)

114 Thanks!
Try them side by side and let us know if you see a difference!
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (MVjcR)

Hahaha....I did, but I am right handed so....

They both do shoot low and left from 30-40 feet and dead on from 10-20 feet thanks to Fritz the Kraut armorer.

The sights adjust but not worth the effort.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 07:48 PM (Z+IKu)

115 > 32 So that body chart.
Green = good?
Red = bad?
Yellow = fair to poor.

If so, then all of those 1x7 AR barrels not so great for 55 gr bullets?
Posted by: teej

Yeah.
US Military wants 1x7 because that's good for the longer tracer rounds they often use. But it degrades the regular bullet's accuracy some.
It's a trade off.

Posted by: ArthurK at June 30, 2019 07:48 PM (fWJWX)

116
Speaking of guns, today is the last day to buy ammuniton in California WITHOUT having to submit to a background check.

The entire sysyem has gone stupid, and by the end of the year, the Real ID will be needed for purchasing ammo, and even for getting on commercial aircraft.

I've already bought what I thought would be several years of ammo. I marvel at the weight of a 50-rd box of 124gr 9mm. I used to think the guys stockpiling thousands of rounds were ... weird ... moving 1000 rounds would be non-trivial ... recently, there was a guy in SoCal who left about 1 million rounds in his house ... but now that I see the stupidity of CA, I think they had a reasonable plan.

Time to renew my passport.

Posted by: Arbalest at June 30, 2019 07:51 PM (FlRtG)

117 96 Wait, I think we already have one. The Don't Tread On Me flag? I forrget what it's called...
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:36 PM (UvpTf)

First Navy Jack.
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:38 PM (t+qrx)

97

Yes. The Gadsen flag.

Sad I don't know who Gadsen was. Maybe, at one time, I did. Senile...

Different flags, both have a snake and "Don't Tread on Me" on them.

Someone I know is in a Western state this summer, and the husband wife team is working by managing campgrounds as a private contractor. They are 29-ish. This is pretty common these days out west.

Anyway, he told the story that he flew a Gadsten flag at his trailer campspot, under Old Glory. Then someone gave the ranger station a complaint, SJW style.

He was told to take it down or he could lose the contract. The SJW made a big stink and ran it, *ahem*, up the flagpole of management.

So he replaced the Gadsten with the Navy Jack. As the SJW's meander into summer, there were a couple more complaints. The ranger stopped by one time, asked what was up, and said, "hey, that's the Navy Jack!"

Ranger smiled, they traded a few stories, and there is now no longer a problem with him flying the Navy Jack over his campground every day.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 07:51 PM (sy5kK)

118
Knowledge on the big navy guns is pretty much non-existant.

Here's a training video:

https://youtu.be/0OmOQs0ziSU

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 30, 2019 07:51 PM (aKsyK)

119 Gah. I belong to a group on Facebook. (I know) and a woman that is disabled ( movement disorder) and uses a wheelchair asked about learning to shoot. You would have been hard pressed to think she wanted to play in traffic by all the its dangerous fuckwits. I stood up for her. Pointed her to a beginners class. Told her to adapt have fun be mindful of safety and just do it. People are scared of their own shadow. Gah. I need to leave the facebooks.

Posted by: usntakim at June 30, 2019 07:52 PM (0OmEj)

120 Has anyone here picked up hunting as a (nominal) adult, never having gone before? There are lots of beginner resources for youth hunters and how to teach your kids hunting, but very little for someone who has no kids and was not raised with it.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:53 PM (t+qrx)

121 If the rifling on a particular gun is done to exacting standards, how can the lands and grooves on bullets that help identify a unique gun for law enforcement be unique? From wear over time?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (438dO)

122 Until recently I never gave rifling much thought. I was shooting guns that had been around for a long time and bulet weights and shapes were pretty standard. A specific gun could do better with certain weight bullets but even that was standardized.

My recent interest in longer range accuracy (by my standards) smaller calibers like .223 Rem., 22 Hornet and 222 Rem. have shown rifling differences that really matter.

Posted by: JTB at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (bmdz3)

123 91 Mark, my mane man! How you?
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (NWiLs)

Hey Brother!

I'm ok, it was a long week but the next one should be better.

How are ya?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (xJa6I)

124 122 Has anyone here picked up hunting as a (nominal) adult, never having gone before? There are lots of beginner resources for youth hunters and how to teach your kids hunting, but very little for someone who has no kids and was not raised with it.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:53 PM (t+qrx)
-----
Good question! I've never been hunting.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:56 PM (MVjcR)

125
I used Fluid Film on my pickup, it repels water like crazy, but it attracts and holds dirt also.

Posted by: clutch

Not necessarily a bad thing on the undercarriage of your vehicle if you live in areas where they salt the roads.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:56 PM (UvpTf)

126 Rifling inside barrel of USS Iowa's Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber gun

Posted by: Bertram Cabot

----

Cool pic!

I have loads of 'brass' for the 5"/54 caliber Mark 45 deck gun but alas, every time I've tried to gather the appropriate propellants, primers and collect hyper velocity projectiles (HVP) for them I get a visit from the ATF.

*kicks dirt*

Posted by: Tonypete at June 30, 2019 07:56 PM (Y4EXg)

127 Watched the barrel forge video, a lot of work.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:56 PM (BbGew)

128 109 no step on snek
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (t+qrx

Hogmartin, I have a shoulder patch in Gadsden yellow that says that. I get some looks at Walmart.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (pP8cY)

129

For instance, a rear differential cover (and its bolts) coated in oil and then covered with a layer of dirt is the perfect undercoating.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (UvpTf)

130 123 If the rifling on a particular gun is done to exacting standards, how can the lands and grooves on bullets that help identify a unique gun for law enforcement be unique? From wear over time?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (438dO)
--------
That is a really good question!

Anyone?

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (MVjcR)

131 Hogmartin, I have a shoulder patch in Gadsden yellow that says that. I get some looks at Walmart.
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (pP8cY)

love it. I've seen some custom holsters with it too. And AR lowers.
https://tinyurl.com/yaz3f8lg

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:58 PM (t+qrx)

132 hogmartin, we can probably arrange a hog hunt for you.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 07:58 PM (wXDpy)

133 Weasel isn't counting trees I take it.

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 07:59 PM (BbGew)

134 Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 07:10 PM (PkVlr)

Eotwawki?

End of the world as we know it?

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 30, 2019 07:59 PM (2iPx5)

135 Thanks ArthurK.
I have two that I really need to get out and punch some holes with.
Stars have to come into alignment to make it happen.

Light to no wind, which happens rarely enough here, and two guys with busy schedules who are free on that kind of day.

Also my little sweetheart. I know what she does with her favorite bits but I bought some other stuff when her favorite wasn't available for a few years.
Thank God those little blue boxes are back. Yes, I pay more but the accuracy and knock down make it worth it to me.

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 08:00 PM (jGqoT)

136 130 109 no step on snek
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:42 PM (t+qrx

Hogmartin, I have a shoulder patch in Gadsden yellow that says that. I get some looks at Walmart.
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (pP8cY)

hogmartin, I love that saying.

it makes people who still have the capacity, to think.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:00 PM (sy5kK)

137 hogmartin, we can probably arrange a hog hunt for you.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 07:58 PM (wXDpy)

I'd be very interested to do this if it's not too much trouble, assuming it's all on the level and not some kind of The Most Dangerous Game thing.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:01 PM (t+qrx)

138 Has anyone here picked up hunting as a (nominal) adult, never having gone before? There are lots of beginner resources for youth hunters and how to teach your kids hunting, but very little for someone who has no kids and was not raised with it.

Sort of, but weakly. My father had hunted but quit before I was born. I always wanted to hunt.

The thing is, people seem to hunt as family units. They go away to deer camp. You don't just get invited to someone's deer camp. If you want to learn how to fish it's easy to find someone who will say come with me today, meet me at 0500.

So I tried to teach myself. I walked around in the woods a lot with a shotgun during grouse season and managed to murder two grouse in some hundreds of hours. I had way better luck with waterfowl. I kayaked a lot of marshes and shot stuff that flew. I had an ex girlfriend who was a chef and we'd cook whatever I shot. Some of it was brilliant, some awful.

And I walked around in the woods with a rifle and a license during deer season but I never had a shot at anything and only the most rudimentary idea of what to do if I had.

I do still want to shoot a deer. I need to make friends.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:01 PM (fuK7c)

139 > 123. If the rifling on a particular gun is done to exacting standards, how can the lands and grooves on bullets that help identify a unique gun for law enforcement be unique? From wear over time?

Most firearms matches today are made from the cartridge cases, not the bullets. Cold hammer forging produces barrel rifling which is virtually indistinguishable from one barrel to the next, over thousands of pieces. There is still a substantial variation in bolt face, extractor, ejector, and firing pin machining which make distinguishable impressions on cartridge cases and primers.

Posted by: 10x25mm at June 30, 2019 08:01 PM (nV+fV)

140 125 91 Mark, my mane man! How you?
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 07:37 PM (NWiLs)

Hey Brother!

I'm ok, it was a long week but the next one should be better.

How are ya?
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (xJa6I)

Glad to hear it. On balance, pretty good. Got out of the house for a change, saw BackwardsBoy's band last night and hung out with them some. Good bunch of guys.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:02 PM (NWiLs)

141
I'd like to deport/exile everyone who pretends to be offended by the Gadsen flag.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 08:02 PM (UvpTf)

142 hogmartin, not at all. The last time some guys came to hunt on the place we will be they shot 27 feral hogs.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:03 PM (wXDpy)

143 I have moved us outside on the deck to smoke a cigar. A nice Romeo y Julieta Aniversario.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:03 PM (MVjcR)

144 136 Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 07:10 PM (PkVlr)

Eotwawki?

End of the world as we know it?

Posted by: olddog in mo at June 30, 2019 07:59 PM (2iPx5)

And I feel fine

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:03 PM (xJa6I)

145 Primer we used on the M-198 was big, like a 45-70 without the bullet. M-114 155mm & M-110/M-107 8in/175mm primer was a little smaller....different breech assembly. Always fascinated me that so much black powder is used in modern artillery. Something to do with its properties as an igniter.

Posted by: Ug of Gug at June 30, 2019 08:03 PM (OKp8N)

146 Smoking a long stick of tobacco happiness on my patio also. Just saw a doe with two nursing fawns. Nice.

Posted by: Ug of Gug at June 30, 2019 08:05 PM (OKp8N)

147 I have seen the bottom photo before somewhere. Weren't they a pair of famous shooting enthusiasts?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 30, 2019 08:06 PM (ycWCI)

148 Hog hunting sounds tasty

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 08:06 PM (BbGew)

149 Hiya mark! Thanks for sharing your CZs with me and young ratched yesterday. He was all amped up for the rest of the day.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 08:06 PM (PkVlr)

150 The thing is, people seem to hunt as family units. They go away to deer camp. You don't just get invited to someone's deer camp. If you want to learn how to fish it's easy to find someone who will say come with me today, meet me at 0500.
(...)
I do still want to shoot a deer. I need to make friends.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:01 PM (fuK7c)

Yep. It always feels like I'd be imposing on a family event and I never bothered to ask. Or that I'd do something to skunk the hunt for them, which is nearly impossible with fishing. And likewise, I know the broad strokes of field dressing, but that doesn't count for much.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:06 PM (t+qrx)

151 Skip, the little ones yes. The big ones NO.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:07 PM (wXDpy)

152 That's great, it starts with an earthquake

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:08 PM (NWiLs)

153 151 Hiya mark! Thanks for sharing your CZs with me and young ratched yesterday. He was all amped up for the rest of the day.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 08:06 PM (PkVlr)

Hey Super Nurse!

It was my great pleasure to share my noisemakers with you.

I'm glad Marine-to-be son had fun. Bring him next time, if he wants.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (xJa6I)

154 hogmartin, not at all. The last time some guys came to hunt on the place we will be they shot 27 feral hogs.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:03 PM (wXDpy)

Neat. Should I bring anything besides boots? I got a gun around here somewhere.

What sort of terrain is it?

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (t+qrx)

155 Birds and snakes and aeroplanes

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (BbGew)

156
And I walked around in the woods with a rifle and a license during deer season but I never had a shot at anything and only the most rudimentary idea of what to do if I had.

I do still want to shoot a deer. I need to make friends.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:01 PM (fuK7c)

For any success at the bigger game, you should spend the months before opening day to learn of the habits of the local game. You need to scope out the area, figuring out their main trails, where they eat, drink, etc. It takes time, but it can be very enjoyable. It all has to happen long before hunting season to be successful.

And by all means, get a friend who is interested to go with you.

Often, families hunt together because they know a certain terrain and habits of the local game.

Waterfowl and pheasant are different, but knowing their patterns also helps.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (sy5kK)

157 When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power... like God must feel when he's holding a gun.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (yQpMk)

158 I don't hunt much anymore. My family wasn't into it, so I taught myself, went with friends, etc. Now I do more game camera shooting.
Yes, a hog hunt is a great way to get your feet wet/shoot something you can eat/make positive contribution to the hog overpopulation.
Hogs are smart, only come out at dusk/dawn and have thick gristle shoulder pads that give the armor. One in the ear is the best way to put the down.
Lots of places in the south sponsor hog hunts, usually from an elevated blind. So, you really don't need to bring a Bowie knife.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:10 PM (pP8cY)

159 I am not afraid.

Posted by: Lenny Bruce at June 30, 2019 08:10 PM (NWiLs)

160 here comes the rain again.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at June 30, 2019 08:10 PM (ykYG2)

161 For instance, a rear differential cover (and its bolts) coated in oil and then covered with a layer of dirt is the perfect undercoating.
Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (UvpTf)

But bad for door and tailgate drain holes.

Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 08:10 PM (kiSdp)

162 154 That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:08 PM (NWiLs)

Birds, snakes and aeroplanes?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:10 PM (xJa6I)

163 hogmartin, boots would be good but you don't need to bring anything else.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (wXDpy)

164 Someone asked about spotters upthread. In team shooting, the coach acts as a spotter and makes the wind calls, telling the shooter where to hold right or left and when to shoot (in addition to being responsible for everything else). The shooter owns the elevation and is responsible for pointing the gun where the coach tells them.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (MVjcR)

165 No love for Polygonal rifling?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)

166 I remember an old nam vet telling me for close range jungle fighting nothing splat a cong better than an early 1:14 twist 10 1/2 inch CAR15. Hit them in the shoulder and it would come out their asshole.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (9Om/r)

167 159 When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power... like God must feel when he's holding a gun.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (yQpMk)

There is something hilarious about that line. Doesn't God feel like that all the time without a gun?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (ycWCI)

168 It's a lovely evening, sun hasn't set but it's time for lights out.
Good night horde

Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 08:12 PM (BbGew)

169 hogmartin, it's Central Texas- it's flat

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:12 PM (wXDpy)

170 That's great, it starts with an earthquake
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:08 PM (NWiLs)

Birds and snakes and aeroplanes
Posted by: Skip at June 30, 2019 08:09 PM (BbGew)

*mumbles unconvincingly until the chorus*

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:12 PM (t+qrx)

171 Gub thread yay. I got nothing, well I have except the filth might track me down if I say what I think of them. Mr Weasel did you mention progressive twist? I have one rifle with it.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (bgJ0E)

172 167 No love for Polygonal rifling?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)

*raises hands*

Judging my the number of Glocks I have, it's past love and into obsession.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (xJa6I)

173 Re: learning hunting.
I hunted with my Pop for squirrel and rabbit as a kid. Learned the rudiments of gun safety, and shooting to kill efficiently.
But Pop grew up when there were no deer, no turkey, and no big game in Mo. at all, so he didn't have the first clue about that.
I learned by reading, hunting, and reading some more. I started out with the bow on deer, so it was up close and personal. I've killed 3 turks, all with the bow.
I also screwed up on the first big deer I ever shot with a gun. I'd been killing deer for several years with a bow. Always went for the double lung shot. Always expected a blood trail of varying length.
For some reason, i thought with a gun, I'd drop them in their tracks with the same shot. Har...
Anyway, I learned the gun is not a bow, and vice versa. Bow hunting made me a better hunter, in that I rarely use a gun to kill deer, or turkey, but would never hunt rabbit or birds with a bow. Go figger.
Join a local hunting forum.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (d9iRk)

174 Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 07:53 PM (t+qrx)

I guess I am unusual on this board in that the range bores me, it is just a tool to get ready for upland bird season with my dog. That is how I spend my fall.

Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 08:14 PM (kiSdp)

175 I've never been hunting. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at it, learning how to skin and clean a kill, etc. Outdoor skills are good things to have.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:14 PM (NWiLs)

176 167 No love for Polygonal rifling?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)
-------
I have ONE handgun with it!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:14 PM (MVjcR)

177 Got to the range to try out the new Rock Island GI 45 auto. A lot of fun and so different from my usual revolvers. I haven't had a 1911 Colt style 45 acp for decades and forgot how enjoyable they are. This is about the lowest priced Colt style 45 on the market and it did great. No FTF or FTE, the slide is smoother and tighter than the usual 45. And despite the 1911 GI fixed sights it was surprisingly accurate. Using crap steel case ammo, elbows braced, I could keep under 2 inch groups at 25 yards once I got a feel for the pistol. I am curious how well it will do with careful handloads.

Posted by: JTB at June 30, 2019 08:15 PM (bmdz3)

178 Ug, been so long I don't remember the designation on my 55.
Towed and a silver tube. WWII vintage I believe still being used during Nam.

Did ya ever work on slap firing one? No lanyard.
Get follow up rounds out quick.
I got to where I could have the breech handle down fast enough that recoil pulled the breech open. Guys shoving another round in as it was returning.
With two primer holders always had one ready.

Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 08:15 PM (jGqoT)

179 hogmartin, it's Central Texas- it's flat
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:12 PM (wXDpy)

Binoculars?

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:15 PM (t+qrx)

180 173 Gub thread yay. I got nothing, well I have except the filth might track me down if I say what I think of them. Mr Weasel did you mention progressive twist? I have one rifle with it.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (bgJ0E)
--------
You know, I thought about it and started to include it, but just describing it turned into a mess so I chickened out. As mentioned above, there are a couple other methods I didn't get into either!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:16 PM (MVjcR)

181 Not that I know anything but the place to start to learn to hunt is with birds.

Many places to shoot and get a little experience.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:16 PM (wXDpy)

182 weasel, there is someone posting as me on the thread below, and possibly here. Could you check on this please? They were at comment 476 on the food thread. Thanks friend. This is creeping me out.

Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (mFoNl)

183
Books on Rifling Machines (for making a machine to rifle a barrel):

"Rifling Machines & Methods Paperback"
by Clifford F. LaBounty

Available from Amazon.

"Steel Helix Paperback"
by Charles J. Moore (Author)

Check this guy's website. He didn't respond to e-mails, so I just put a check for the price + postage in the mail, waited, and the book appeared. I assume that others will have the same experience.

Posted by: Arbalest at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (FlRtG)

184 hogmartin, Nope, nothing else.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (wXDpy)

185 For any success at the bigger game, you should spend the months before opening day to learn of the habits of the local game. You need to scope out the area, figuring out their main trails, where they eat, drink, etc. It takes time, but it can be very enjoyable. It all has to happen long before hunting season to be successful.

Well, I like the weekend threads because you can mostly avoid politics when talking about books and food and such. But if you live in the Northeast and you're talking about hunting you're talking about guns and that means talking about politics.

In Massachusetts deer hunting is shotgun only and I want to murder a deer with my father's .30/30. Connecticut is shotgun only except on private land with landowner permission and I don't know any landowners. New Hampshire is totes cool and you can get an out of state license and walk around with a rifle as much as you want, but I've never been in a position to scout New Hampshire for the signs you're talking about. I have given New Hampshire money for licenses and traipsed about in it.

I may be in Pennsylvania this as of this fall and all of that may change. PA is still pretty sane for the Northeast.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (fuK7c)

186 No love for Polygonal rifling?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)

Only one I have is a CZ 82 in Makarov 9mm.

Very accurate.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:18 PM (Z+IKu)

187 188 No love for Polygonal rifling?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)

Only one I have is a CZ 82 in Makarov 9mm.

Very accurate.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:18 PM (Z+IKu)

Can confirm. So is my Mak

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:18 PM (xJa6I)

188 Gunga la gunga !

Posted by: JT at June 30, 2019 08:19 PM (c/nI1)

189 184 weasel, there is someone posting as me on the thread below, and possibly here. Could you check on this please? They were at comment 476 on the food thread. Thanks friend. This is creeping me out.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (mFoNl)
--------
Hi Moki - I will absolutely delete anything like that in this thread but don't think I can go back and make changes on the food thread.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:19 PM (MVjcR)

190 Thanks for the hunting tips, everyone. I'd forgotten about the necessity of pre-season reconnaissance. I should probably tag along with someone and do that for a while before I start to think about actually hunting.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:19 PM (t+qrx)

191 184 weasel, there is someone posting as me on the thread below, and possibly here. Could you check on this please? They were at comment 476 on the food thread. Thanks friend. This is creeping me out.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (mFoNl)

Wait. How do we know YOU aren't the fake Moki? Hmmm? *narrows eyes*

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:20 PM (NWiLs)

192 Bander, if you don't mind trekking north, I have 11 acres of woods and a tree stand. Just had a doe and newborn fawn 60 yds from my porch. You can shoot whatever the heck you want.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:21 PM (pP8cY)

193 A question for the company. What would you pay for a
U.S. Krag in .30-40 with a minty bore but a reduced forend every thing else being correct? The price range must vary state to state. I am looking at one here and wondering if its was worth releasing back to the wild in the US.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:21 PM (bgJ0E)

194 Wait. How do we know YOU aren't the fake Moki? Hmmm? *narrows eyes*
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:20 PM (NWiLs)

There is one odd little thing that the real Moki would know about me that we have in common, that an impostor would not. Not that sort of thing, you goons.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM (t+qrx)

195 Insomniac, it's me. The person posting on the last thread is changing hashs, and sounds far more stupid than me.

I mean, I'm pretty stupid, but good gravy.

And I'm the Moki that makes oatmeal dried cherry white chocolate cookies.

Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM (mFoNl)

196 Mr Weasel did you mention progressive twist? I have one rifle with it.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (bgJ0E)

A Carcano by chance?.....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM (Z+IKu)

197 Bander, if you want to scout New Hampshire, let me know. I know scat about deer hunting, but I do know the woods.

Posted by: fluffy at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM (dCRRg)

198 Not sure if this has been answered earlier but broach rifling is not generally used for rifles, cut and button are the std. from a drilled blank. The classic example of broached barrels is the 1911.

Hammer forged started with the Germans during WWII due to their need for machine gun barrels and mechanical hammers were used to hammer a barrel onto a mandrel (which served as a transferable template if you will) of the proper rifling. The tooling for these is somewhere in the millions for a complete work so only the big manufacturers used them. The benefit is that complete barrels can be turned out in a fraction of the time.

No, I did not go to the range this week but acquired a first variation Colt Police Positive in .32 New Police (aka .32 SW Long) instead.

Posted by: whig at June 30, 2019 08:23 PM (WT0Md)

199 You can shoot whatever the heck you want.

Hopefully, not the tree stand ...

Posted by: Adriane the Wot Says Oy A Lot Critic ... at June 30, 2019 08:23 PM (LPnfS)

200 And I'm the Moki that makes oatmeal dried cherry white chocolate cookies.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM (mFoNl)

Yep, that's the real Moki. No imposter would make such an outrageous claim.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:23 PM (NWiLs)

201 Thanks, Weasel. And Hogmartin, I'm so upset right now, I can't remember anything except talking your ear off at the MoMee. You were exceedingly kind.

Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (mFoNl)

202 Bander, if you don't mind trekking north, I have 11 acres of woods and a tree stand. Just had a doe and newborn fawn 60 yds from my porch. You can shoot whatever the heck you want.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:21 PM (pP8cY)

Um, gosh. Thanks. Where is north? No I don't mind. E-mail is in nick.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (fuK7c)

203 Yeah, hogmartin...
I learned going to Conservation sights. I'd log the hours, learning the trails, looking for early morning deer poop (tight) later poop (loose, like rabbits), learning where they bedded, where they ate, all that stuff.
I put the hours in early in life, and so now don't have to. But you either have to, or buy the expertise, or buddy up to it.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (d9iRk)

204 " 168 I remember an old nam vet telling me for close range jungle fighting
nothing splat a cong better than an early 1:14 twist 10 1/2 inch CAR15.
Hit them in the shoulder and it would come out their asshole.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at June 30, 2019 08:11 PM (9Om/r)"
..
This is a bit of a misconception that most likely came from the field evaluation reports from the very very early AR-15's (pre-M-16) sent for testing by ARVN and western advisors. Now granted, the 55gr ball can create surprisingly large and sometimes unpredictable wounds out to almost 200 yards with a 20" barrel, but the twist rate really has nothing to do with it.
A 10.5" barrel with VN era ball ammo is mostly just going to poke straight holes past 50 yards.
On the topic of contemporary AR's - unless you're using fairly expensive match barrels and expensive match ammo and have no need for barrel advice, just get a 1:7 twist and be done with it. It will shoot 55gr through 77gr just fine. It's the twist rate you'll find in any quality modern barrel outside of match barrels anyways.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (67XdO)

205 A question for the company. What would you pay for a
U.S. Krag in .30-40 with a minty bore but a reduced forend every thing else being correct? The price range must vary state to state. I am looking at one here and wondering if its was worth releasing back to the wild in the US.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:21 PM (bgJ0E)

You know, I just saw one this afternoon at the shop, but I didn't give it a second look because it had been drilled and tapped. I haven't got an answer to your question, sorry. Just thought that was an odd coincidence. They aren't extremely rare here, but they are a bit uncommon and moreso in unmolested condition.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (t+qrx)

206 Hey everybody.

If you were a Repub congresscriter, would you invite AOC over to the range with you sometime, so she can see real-life gun owners close up?

One one hand, I might. OTOH, if she gets hold of a loaded gun. OMG...

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 30, 2019 08:25 PM (miE9U)

207 203 Thanks, Weasel. And Hogmartin, I'm so upset right now, I can't remember anything except talking your ear off at the MoMee. You were exceedingly kind.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (mFoNl)
--------
Working on it.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:25 PM (MVjcR)

208 Hugs to you weasel. I owe you lunch.

Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:26 PM (mFoNl)

209 Just bought a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 today. My first rifle and lever gun!
Posted by: In Exile
Hey that was my first too! Then I started building Palmetto's.

Posted by: ck at June 30, 2019 08:26 PM (GXRoa)

210 Good evening horde. Platoon - "lock and load".

Posted by: None shall pass at June 30, 2019 08:26 PM (JdcHc)

211
201 You can shoot whatever the heck you want.

Hopefully, not the tree stand ...
Posted by: Adriane the Wot Says Oy A Lot Critic ... at June 30, 2019 08:23 PM (LPnfS

Ok, Adriane, I'll rephrase. You can shoot whatever firearm you want. Of sufficient caliber.
Tree stands require .50 cal.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:27 PM (pP8cY)

212 In Massachusetts deer hunting is shotgun only and I
want to murder a deer with my father's .30/30.

I may be in Pennsylvania this as of this fall and all of that may change. PA is still pretty sane for the Northeast.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (fuK7c)

---
I don't think it's a question of sanity so much as population density.

Michigan has a thing called the "rifle line." Everyone seems to know what it is, even people who don't hunt. South of the rifle line, you have to use a handgun or shotgun to take game, north of it rifles are fine.

I agree with the others that the trick is to have an idea of where you are going to hunt before going out.

I've taken only one deer in my lifetime, with a well-used Oldsmobile Cutlass. I've take some small game, but that's a slightly different style.

I may go out with my crossbow this year...but I say that every year and rarely actually do it.

Worst thing is I have a friend whose more than happy to let me hunt on his land. I'm just too busy.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:27 PM (cfSRQ)

213 At the suggestion of Mrs. JTB, I ordered the top Brownells magna-tip gunsmithing set. (I think seeing me install a scope on a 22 rifle using a Swiss Army knife might have something to do with it.) I'm building up a set of gunsmithing tools to be able to do basic maintenance and repairs. Should have done this many years ago. The 'tools' include books on gunsmithing, especially exploded views of my guns.

We both have a little bit of prepper in our hearts and these tools are an aspect of that.

Posted by: JTB at June 30, 2019 08:27 PM (bmdz3)

214 198, Not all Carcanos have progressive rifling, aka gain twist. That is for the Fusils up until the last few were made in the 1930's. The 1941 model and the 38 model do not have it.

Unfortunately, one of the reasons that Carcanos got a bad rep for accuracy apart from the Italian performance in WWII and JFK, is that the Italians needed carbines so one of the carbine variations uses a a rifle barrel that has been chopped. The problem then is that the chopped part remaining is too slow a twist to stabilize the long issued Carcano bullets. Thus, crappy accuracy. Believe most of that rot happened in late WWI and until the newer models in the later 1930's. Forget the exact model number to look out for.

Posted by: whig at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (WT0Md)

215 Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

Hugs to you all.
Moki

Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (mFoNl)

216 I've taken only one deer in my lifetime, with a well-used Oldsmobile Cutlass. I've take some small game, but that's a slightly different style.
Hee
My guess is that deer didn't go into the pot?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (d9iRk)

217 And Hogmartin, I'm so upset right now, I can't remember anything except talking your ear off at the MoMee. You were exceedingly kind.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:24 PM (mFoNl)

Aww, thanks. But yes, mFoNl is the real moki, confirmed.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (t+qrx)

218 198 Mr Weasel did you mention progressive twist? I have one rifle with it.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:13 PM (bgJ0E)

A Carcano by chance?.....
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:22 PM

I do have a Cacano carbine 1938 I think, and now remember some info from a long ago book mentioning progressive twist but I will have to check. But no I was thinking of a Drilling I have in 9.3mm which apparently has this type of twist..

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (bgJ0E)

219 Side note: I nominate White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham as the BADASS OF THE WEEK: https://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/press-sec-fights-north-korea.jpg

Posted by: Jonah Kyle at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (SH7Tr)

220 I've taken only one deer in my lifetime, with a well-used Oldsmobile Cutlass.

I just snorfled a lot.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (fuK7c)

221 217 Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

Hugs to you all.
Moki
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (mFoNl)

That's just because it's http and not https. Don't mean much.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:30 PM (NWiLs)

222 217 Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

Hugs to you all.
Moki
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (mFoNl)
------
Moki - I'll be in touch.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:30 PM (gcMCe)

223 A.H. Lloyd, I would love to have a crossbow.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:30 PM (wXDpy)

224 Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

Hugs to you all.
Moki
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (mFoNl)

It always says it's not secure. It's a certificate thing. It's not an issue unless it's asking for credentials or sensitive information.

But have a nice evening, if you're headed out.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:31 PM (t+qrx)

225 Moki, the real one. My internet has been showing the Not Secure message for weeks. Not sure when it first started.
And there are 3 messages under your name on this thread as well. Different hash.

Posted by: neverenoughcaffeine at June 30, 2019 08:31 PM (5vDKw)

226 195
A question for the company. What would you pay for a

U.S. Krag in .30-40 with a minty bore but a reduced forend every
thing else being correct? The price range must vary state to state. I am
looking at one here and wondering if its was worth releasing back to
the wild in the US.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:21 PM (bgJ0E)

---
I guess it would depend on what people expect from it.

If the goal is to own a Krag, the bore is going to be a big deal and everything else is just gravy.

I'm not up on Krags, but how hard it is to get replacement furniture? If it turned into a restoration project, would that enhance the value?

I'm having the bore of my M1930 Broomhandle relined, which is a no-no for historical fetishists, but since it's build out of spare parts, I think that makes it more of a shooter's gun and actually boosts the value.

But a purist would object, I'm sure.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:32 PM (cfSRQ)

227 I've taken only one deer in my lifetime, with a well-used Oldsmobile Cutlass.

Same. 2010 Dodge Avenger.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 08:33 PM (SCOa6)

228
But a purist would object, I'm sure.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:32 PM (cfSRQ)

Thanks for the info. Still like to know what they go for. A piece of string question if there ever was one.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:35 PM (bgJ0E)

229 No deer, but
3 armadillos
6 skunks
12 snakes
2 feral hogs.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:35 PM (wXDpy)

230 Thanks for the info on producing rifling. Never heard of the button method.

Posted by: None shall pass at June 30, 2019 08:36 PM (JdcHc)

231 Curious which tank fires a 105 mm round. Is that the M-1?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:36 PM (9SkN+)

232 Bander, check email. And maybe you can get Weasel to drive north on a road trip.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:36 PM (pP8cY)

233 I do have a Cacano carbine 1938 I think, and now remember some info from a long ago book mentioning progressive twist but I will have to check. But no I was thinking of a Drilling I have in 9.3mm which apparently has this type of twist..
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (bgJ0E)

Great! I have read about the Carcanos with the progressive twist but I have never seen or handled one.

It is on my short list but no luck so far.

For what it's worth, the most accurate Carcano I have is in 7.92 Mauser, but with no clips to be found it is a single shot only. The clips are like hen's teeth, as I have never seen one.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:37 PM (Z+IKu)

234 3 armadillos
6 skunks
12 snakes
2 feral hogs.

...and a partridge in a pear tree!

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:37 PM (fuK7c)

235 195,
Part of it depends on the model. The 1894 and 1896 Krags bring a premium over the later and more common 98 models. There is a 1899 model that is a carbine receiver that is pretty scarce.

Complete rifles start at about $1000 and go up depending on condition, cartouches, model, etc. Ironically, a collector will often pay more for a complete gun with a crappy barrel than for a incomplete one with a pristine barrel.

Posted by: whig at June 30, 2019 08:37 PM (WT0Md)

236 For summer carry I have swapped the trusty J-frame for the Sig P290 I bought last fall. Slightly thinner for better concealment is my thinking.
Alpha Holsters (dot -com) makes a good bellyband rig that goes nicely under a t-shirt, though I miss my old Bianchi that had better pockets.

Did range day on Friday, still doing the winter routine of 10 or a dozen rounds each from the carry guns at 21 feet; well, 10 feet sometimes for the mini .22.

Shooting Buddy and I are gonna do Tueller Drill next week, draw and fire from concealment holster with carry guns in 3 seconds or less ... we'll see how that goes, and I'll let alla youse know how that works out. Not sure about doing this from the bellyband; from the OWB on the hip I have managed it before, barely.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - they are gaslighting us 24/365 at June 30, 2019 08:38 PM (I1oSB)

237 I've taken only one deer in my lifetime, with a well-used Oldsmobile Cutlass.

-------

You have to hit them in exactly the right spot for a clean kill. I hear a golf course is good.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:38 PM (9SkN+)

238 230 Thanks for the info on producing rifling. Never heard of the button method.
Posted by: None shall pass at June 30, 2019 08:36 PM (JdcHc)
-----
My pleasure!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:38 PM (MVjcR)

239 For what it's worth, the most accurate Carcano I have is in 7.92 Mauser, but with no clips to be found it is a single shot only. The clips are like hen's teeth, as I have never seen one.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:37 PM (Z+IKu)

*Laughs manically, snorts, sharts*

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:38 PM (bgJ0E)

240 Hee

My guess is that deer didn't go into the pot?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (d9iRk)

---
I'm from MICHIGAN. You guess WRONG. We eat our roadkill here.

It was a yearling, hit me in the early fall, about a mile from my house. I had theoretical knowledge, but no practical experiency. Happily my housemate had both the skillz and a pickup truck.

So I marked the spot on the road, came home, told him to grab his truck and we went out and brought the carcass home. Broken neck. I called the sheriff and they sent a deputy out to give me the kill tag while he gutted it. Next day we drove it to the butcher and dined off of nature's bounty for many moons.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (cfSRQ)

241 Missouri decided a coupla years ago that the crossbow was indeed a bow and not a gun. Result? 801 deer killed by crossbow, out of 41,000 killed by bow total.
The crossbow is NOT the killing weapon you've been led to believe.
It's loud, and there is NEVER a second shot chance, unlike most bows.
Mostly it's for folks with shoulder problems... MHOO.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (d9iRk)

242 Oh, and great pictures, Weasel !
As always, thanks for my favorite thread of the week !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - they are gaslighting us 24/365 at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (I1oSB)

243 OK, I deleted the fake moki's here. Le5 me know if you see any others. Thanks

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (gcMCe)

244 Just bought a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 today. My first rifle and lever gun!

Congratulations. Great rifle and Caliber that ought to serve you well.

Posted by: An Observation at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (Wbena)

245 BTW, The grandpa pick is hilarious.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (9SkN+)

246 Weasel, have you gotten a reply to your email yet?

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:40 PM (wXDpy)

247 242 Oh, and great pictures, Weasel !
As always, thanks for my favorite thread of the week !
Posted by: sock_rat_eez - they are gaslighting us 24/365 at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (I1oSB)
-----
Thanks! Glad you liked them!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:40 PM (MVjcR)

248 BTW, The grandpa pick is hilarious.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (9SkN+)

"Wow, you blew his head clean off"

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 30, 2019 08:40 PM (miE9U)

249

Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing
this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from
commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

Your Mcafee or whatever antivirus protector you use is screwing with you.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 08:40 PM (Xd1wG)

250 Pick pic. Stupid autocorrect

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (9SkN+)

251 246 Weasel, have you gotten a reply to your email yet?
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:40 PM (wXDpy)
-------
Nothing yet - figured I'd give it a bit.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (MVjcR)

252 A.H. Lloyd
Great story!

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (d9iRk)

253 Thanks for the info. Still like to know what they go for. A piece of string question if there ever was one.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:35 PM (bgJ0E)

---
Gunbroker is a widely-used reference. There's a gun show coming up next weekend, so I can price any Krags, but there is wide variance. I'm not spun up on what the originals look like, but I can let you know what I see.

Ones in good condition fetch big money though. North of a grand based on the prices I've seen - and that was without checking the bore.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (cfSRQ)

254 Thanks all for the AR barrel twist input. Will do more study but for my purposes will probably go with 1/8.

Weasel, that cut-away photo of the tank barrel reminds me of the sections [2, I think] of 16"/5Ocal naval rifle barrel [Iowa-class battleship main battery] on display at the Hawthorne Ordnance Museum in Hawthorne, NV.

The muzzle section was the one standing next to the very informative display of 16" projectiles and info. This was from a new, unused spare barrel. The rifling was incredibly sharp. Think you could cut yourself on it.

In a previous gub thread I think I relayed the fascinating [esp. to reloaders] info about how the Navy remixed/recalibrated the powder for those guns after results in Lebanon in the early eighties, and the little tweaks that were developed to prolong barrel life by retarding throat erosion.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (QDnY+)

255 Posted by: sock_rat_eez - they are gaslighting us 24/365 at June 30, 2019 08:38 PM (I1oSB)

I'd like to hear how that goes, let me know.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (xJa6I)

256
Complete rifles start at about $1000 and go up depending on condition, cartouches, model, etc. Ironically, a collector will often pay more for a complete gun with a crappy barrel than for a incomplete one with a pristine barrel.
Posted by: whig at June 30, 2019 08:37 PM (WT0Md)

Wow . I'm rich I tell you. Real Merkin dollars?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (bgJ0E)

257 245 BTW, The grandpa pick is hilarious.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:39 PM (9SkN+)
-----
Credit goes to our pal ibguy for that!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (MVjcR)

258 And Weasel, thanks for another eeevil skeery edumucational gub thread!

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (QDnY+)

259 Someone should volunteer for an Occasional Hunting Thread. I'd give up an every three weeks spot for a hunting thread.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (fuK7c)

260 215 Guys, this is going to be my last comment. My computer keeps showing this site to be "not secure" so I think I am going to stay away from commenting. I love you guys, but this scared me.

--------

Google is only too happy to assist you in navigating the dangerous shoals of the Internet.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (9SkN+)

261 Wow . I'm rich I tell you. Real Merkin dollars?
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2

You mean there's another kind?
(I keed)

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:43 PM (d9iRk)

262 Hunting thread

Be quite
Stay downwind
Soak your hunting clothes in animal urine.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:44 PM (wXDpy)

263
In a previous gub thread I think I relayed the fascinating [esp. to reloaders] info about how the Navy remixed/recalibrated the powder for those guns after results in Lebanon in the early eighties, and the little tweaks that were developed to prolong barrel life by retarding throat erosion.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:41 PM (QDnY+)
-----
My overbore caliber (6.5-284) match rifle burns out a barrel due to throat erosion in about 800 rounds.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:44 PM (gcMCe)

264 219 Side note: I nominate White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham as the BADASS OF THE WEEK: https://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/press-sec-fights-north-korea.jpg
Posted by: Jonah Kyle at June 30, 2019 08:29 PM (SH7Tr)

I didn't think anyone could have gotten close to filling Sarah Sanders shoes.

But getting into a physical altercation with armed North Korean body guards on your first week on the job, expressly for the purpose of helping the US press to cover the President, is one helluva way to start.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:45 PM (sy5kK)

265 Shite, that was supposed to be quiet.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:45 PM (wXDpy)

266 258 And Weasel, thanks for another eeevil skeery edumucational gub thread!
Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (QDnY+)
-----
You're welcome!!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (gcMCe)

267
95% of anti-malware software and firewall software is malware.

Macafee is garbage. Norton is garrbage.
They want to control your shit.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (Xd1wG)

268 231 Curious which tank fires a 105 mm round. Is that the M-1?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 30, 2019 08:36 PM (9SkN+)

FWIW. I have a ring of the barrel shown from the tank in 105mm. The ring is a memento and engraved and case colour hardened. As to what tank it came from? Well lets say I am not a turrethead. Keep away from the big, noisy ,hot ,identifiable targets.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (bgJ0E)

269 12 Just bought a Marlin 336 chambered in 30-30 today. My first rifle and lever gun!
Posted by: In Exile at June 30, 2019 07:07 PM (SDmIR)

Congrats! Feels like a bit of history. Like riding on a stage coach.
Hint, if you want more accuracy, go with Hornady LeveRevolution rounds. Pointy tip, but made of plastic, so, with recoil, it won't set off the primer on the next round in the tube magazine. Much more aerodynamic than the round nose rounds.
I do seem to recall that the recoil means short range trips. And it's really a 100 yard woods gun. Which is fine. If you're in the woods. Where the deer are.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (pP8cY)

270 Wow . I'm rich I tell you. Real Merkin dollars?

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:42 PM (bgJ0E)

---
Yep. Yankee greenbacks.

Having all-original parts is definitely a thing, even if they are less than optimal. I wrecked the finish on my FrankenMauser when I was trying to degrease it and clean the rust off.

That made the decision to reline the barrel that much easier. Once that's done, I'll see about having it completely re-blued. It won't be original, but it will sure look great!

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (cfSRQ)

271 Shite, that was supposed to be quiet.

Yeah but you really took the romance out of there I was, my senses fully attuned to the magnetosphere, on the trail of the buck that's been called Sachem since the old people roamed...

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (fuK7c)

272 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 30, 2019 07:54 PM (438dO)
--------
That is a really good question!

Anyone?
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:57 PM (MVjcR)

Hatchers Notebook and his Police forensics book tells all.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (bgJ0E)

273 Be quite
Stay downwind
Soak your hunting clothes in animal urine.
Posted by: Ben Had

And you're hunting...?
Predators? Do you use mud?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (d9iRk)

274 273 Be quite
Stay downwind
Soak your hunting clothes in animal urine.
Posted by: Ben Had

And you're hunting...?
Predators? Do you use mud?
Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (d9iRk)
-------
Wabbit hunting!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:48 PM (gcMCe)

275 198, Not all Carcanos have progressive rifling, aka gain twist. That is for the Fusils up until the last few were made in the 1930's. The 1941 model and the 38 model do not have it. Believe most of that rot happened in late WWI and until the newer models in the later 1930's. Forget the exact model number to look out for.
Posted by: whig at June 30, 2019 08:28 PM (WT0Md)

Thanks Whig! I own and have shot all the post WW1 Carcano types but have never seen or handled a progressive twist one. I have gotten decent accuracy out of the carbines, cavalry and full length rifles but the Italians were definitely outgunned in 1940 and the clip system leaves a lot to be desired when fast shooting due to porpoising and double feeds. I had 6 rounds recently made in 1941, Italian Army surplus, which had the long cigar shaped bullet but only one went bang. Too long on the shelf I guess.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 08:48 PM (Z+IKu)

276 Be quite

Stay downwind

Soak your hunting clothes in animal urine.

Posted by: Ben Had

And you're hunting...?

Predators? Do you use mud?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM

---
Dogs roll in the dung of their prey to mask their scent.

Just sayin...........

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 30, 2019 08:49 PM (JUOKG)

277
Hatchers Notebook and his Police forensics book tells all.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (bgJ0E)
--------
I will have to check that out. Thanks NZFrank!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:49 PM (gcMCe)

278 Be quite

Stay downwind

Soak your hunting clothes in animal urine.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:44 PM (wXDpy)

---
The deer in my neighborhood will practically eat out of your hand.

More than once I was tempted to put one down with a pocket .38, but there's a municipal ordinance against hunting (which I get, it is densely populated).

Obviously some deer are more circumspect than others.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:49 PM (cfSRQ)

279 I'm not sure why it took the British so long to catch on.
Obviously, they were waiting for the French to invent the bullet that would work in them.

I'm sure you know, a British officer named Ferguson had a whole company of riflemen using breech loaders of his own design, during the Revolution.

As late as 1859, riflemen in the field could be defeated (by the French!) by musketeers using superior loading time and aggressive tactics. But mostly bayonets.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 08:50 PM (8ZmvG)

280 Duck season!

Posted by: Bugs Bunny at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM (NWiLs)

281 A friend has a Remington 788 in .222 , 1:14 twist.

45 grain boat-tail Speer hollow points dispatch 150 yard ground hogs, every time. A flat, accurate shooter.

Many will claim that their AR with 1:9, 1:8 twist is just accurate as hell, but, I'm dubious. Certainly with 55 gr. they are over-stabilized. Okay, *almost* certainly.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM (/dN1M)

282 I do seem to recall that the recoil means short range trips. And it's really a 100 yard woods gun. Which is fine. If you're in the woods. Where the deer are.
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 08:46 PM (pP8cY)

DNK if true, but I have heard many times that more deer in the USA have been taken with a 30-30, than any other round.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM (sy5kK)

283 Did enjoy the Russian commander on Iceland's line when he saw the US destroyer fire for effect in Red Storm Rising.

"Mother of God."
Posted by: teej at June 30, 2019 07:40 PM (jGqoT)

Well, actually, that was the part where the USS Iowa was opening fire on Soviet positions in Iceland. But yeah, I see your point. It is completely impossible for me to describe just how much I enjoyed Red Storm Rising.

As for that question at the end of the thread...that one that makes me feel as if I am forsaking my friends that go "boom" - I am currently 192 miles north of my favorite Texas range, not 600 miles away as I usually am. Which may call for me to make a road trip later this month.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (kKmz+)

284 And you're hunting...?

Predators? Do you use mud?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (d9iRk)

---
I think back to my late stepfather, you used to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, yet still managed to "limit out" during deer season.

Maybe the bucks liked the nicotine?

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (cfSRQ)

285 The deer in my neighborhood will practically eat out of your hand.

Because they know you can't shoot them. All animals know the regulations and dates of hunting season.

I would go up in the marshes with a shotgun and a kayak and ducks would flee the second I rounded a bend. Then I'd go to the dock that's near the road where you're not allowed to shoot and they'd just puddle around like carefree ducks.

Assholes.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (fuK7c)

286 When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power... like God must feel when he's holding a gun.
******
Something Homer Simpson said?

Posted by: Thanatopsis at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (JxDHY)

287 Wow! I never considered the weight/twist component. Maybe my erratic grouping at 100 yds is not completely operator headspace & timing.
Based on the table I'd be better off running 75 grain freedom seeds in my pistol.

Posted by: Glen the Deplorable Lurker at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (pb2K/)

288 I've had a cigarette in my mouth most the deer Ive killed.
I place various stands for the expected winds.
We have urban hunts in KCMo. We've kilt a coupla dozen within the city limits in the last 12 years. Urban deer aren't ... yeah, circumspect is a good word.
Archery only, of course. Who would shoot a gun in the hood?

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (d9iRk)

289 Cutaway 105mm Tank Gun Barrel

I would have hated deburring that.

Posted by: t-bird at June 30, 2019 08:54 PM (YPJrZ)

290
DNK if true, but I have heard many times that more deer in the USA have been taken with a 30-30, than any other round.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM

___

Pre 1915 or so that would have been true of the .35 WCF cartridge also.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 30, 2019 08:54 PM (JUOKG)

291 > The deer in my neighborhood will practically eat out of your hand.

Because they know you can't shoot them. All animals know the regulations and dates of hunting season.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (fuK7c)

That and the CWD makes them friendly.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:55 PM (t+qrx)

292 285 The deer in my neighborhood will practically eat out of your hand.

Because they know you can't shoot them. All animals know the regulations and dates of hunting season.

I would go up in the marshes with a shotgun and a kayak and ducks would flee the second I rounded a bend. Then I'd go to the dock that's near the road where you're not allowed to shoot and they'd just puddle around like carefree ducks.

Assholes.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (fuK7c)
---------
I was at (aboard?) Quantico MCB on the first day of deer season for a match or practice on their 1000 yd range. We started shooting at 600 and were working our way back. At one such evolution there were about 20 deer bedded in the grass behind us!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:55 PM (MVjcR)

293 281 A friend has a Remington 788 in .222 , 1:14 twist.

45 grain boat-tail Speer hollow points dispatch 150 yard ground hogs, every time. A flat, accurate shooter.

Many will claim that their AR with 1:9, 1:8 twist is just accurate as hell, but, I'm dubious. Certainly with 55 gr. they are over-stabilized. Okay, *almost* certainly.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM (/dN1M)

This sound repetitive, I have one of those 788s also. Very accurate. For some weird reason .222 is much more forgiving to a poor or even rusty bore compared to .223.
At least my crusty seat of the pants WAG evidence points to for me. I own a BSA Hunter in .222 that has a bore that looks like it was left for a year in a creek, but it shoots very well.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:56 PM (bgJ0E)

294 Weasel, thanks again for another great thread.

You seem to draw the kind of folks I like hanging out with.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:56 PM (sy5kK)

295 Every Sept, 1 I have 100 dove sitting on my fence.

opening day of dove season here.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 08:56 PM (wXDpy)

296 294 Weasel, thanks again for another great thread.

You seem to draw the kind of folks I like hanging out with.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 08:56 PM (sy5kK)
--------
Absolutely my pleasure. As you point out, it's all of you that make this fun.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:58 PM (gcMCe)

297 Weasel, I think there were some of the technical specs for the 16" guns [pressures, etc.] in the info at that museum. Always hilarious to those of us who deal in little popguns like rifles - the numbers are yuuuuge, unimaginable.

Vaguely recall one of the erosion-inhibiting tweaks was called "the swedish cure" or some hilarious thing and consisted of inserting packets of chemicals between the powder bags.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:58 PM (QDnY+)

298 I'm sure you know, a British officer named Ferguson
had a whole company of riflemen using breech loaders of his own design,
during the Revolution.

As late as 1859, riflemen in the field
could be defeated (by the French!) by musketeers using superior loading
time and aggressive tactics. But mostly bayonets.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 08:50 PM (8ZmvG)

---
Ah, a topic near and dear to my heart: Britain's miserable and pathetic contributions to modern small arms.

When you think of giants, there's John Browning and then the Germans. We'll give credit to the Russians for stealing the best of their designs. Kudos for the Czechs as well, since the best British weapon ever fielded (Bren gun) was actually designed by them.

But what have the Brits really brought to the table? The SMLE is nice, but not measurably better than its contemporaries. .303 endures as a legacy cartridge because the British Empire was so big, not because everyone else thought it was THE cartridge.

Indeed, the Brits pretty much suck at the whole small arms thing. .455 Webley was a dead end and after the Great War the Brits though a .38 REVOLVER was the way to go. Uh yeah, sure.

Everyone else in the world had a better side arm - even the Poles!

After the war, the Brits cooked up a bullpup but it went nowhere and they went with the FAL.

Finally, they came up with their own unique design (SA-80) that was so awful, the Germans had to fix it for them.

And by then, they were using Browning GP 35s like everyone else.

British small arms: Nothing to see here.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (cfSRQ)

299 We voted down a dove season a couple times because the antis bring out the sob stories. So, we fatten 'em up and Hoosiers shoot 'em.

Posted by: clutch at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (kiSdp)

300 Now I'm wondering about bird hunting. Don't you need a lot of... infrastructure to hunt waterfowl? Fake ducks? Kayaks? Camo netting? Little kazoos? Retrieving dogs?

I haven't got any of that stuff. Is upland hunting more approachable?

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (t+qrx)

301 297 Weasel, I think there were some of the technical specs for the 16" guns [pressures, etc.] in the info at that museum. Always hilarious to those of us who deal in little popguns like rifles - the numbers are yuuuuge, unimaginable.

Vaguely recall one of the erosion-inhibiting tweaks was called "the swedish cure" or some hilarious thing and consisted of inserting packets of chemicals between the powder bags.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 08:58 PM (QDnY+)
-------
I can only imagine what those numbers must be.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:00 PM (gcMCe)

302 Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (fuK7c)
---------
I was at (aboard?) Quantico MCB on the first day of deer season for a match or practice on their 1000 yd range. We started shooting at 600 and were working our way back. At one such evolution there were about 20 deer bedded in the grass behind us!
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:55 PM (MVjcR)

On various mil ranges over here I have shot wild pig(and then eaten them for lunch) , deer, goats and during a nighttime m.g. shoot unfortunately wild horses.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 09:00 PM (bgJ0E)

303 Major Israeli missle attack on Syria tonight

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 30, 2019 09:00 PM (85Gof)

304 No range time this week, but I did anneal about a hundred .30-'06 case necks today.
A year ago, I couldn't even spell anneal.
Thx, Weasel!

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (pP8cY)

305 clutch, a meadowlark is better than a dove, They are closer to a quail

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (wXDpy)

306 Way OT. How the fuck do you run out of Italian bread in a sub shop? That's the second place that's screwed me.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (SCOa6)

307 189 184 weasel, there is someone posting as me on the thread below, and possibly here. Could you check on this please? They were at comment 476 on the food thread. Thanks friend. This is creeping me out.
Posted by: Moki at June 30, 2019 08:17 PM (mFoNl)
--------
Hi Moki - I will absolutely delete anything like that in this thread but don't think I can go back and make changes on the food thread.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:19 PM (MVjcR)

Hey, it's me. I didn't know there was a Moki here.
Much apologies,

delete it all. I didn't say anything worth keeping. - Except for the definition of 16"/50 and thanks for the answer.

Posted by: 1 at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (WC8Gu)

308 British small arms: Nothing to see here.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd

I sure don't know the history, but at the WWi museum here at KC, most the European arms seemed to be 8mm.
Looks like they "did" 8mm like we "did" .30.
Don't even know what that means. Just an observation.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (d9iRk)

309 Range - indoor, for weekly brief handgun practice. 1911 - and confirmed that if I slow down quite a bit and focus a tremendous amount on exactly what my trigger finger is doing, and do not anticipate ..... it shoots exactly to point-of-aim.

Huh.

Don't see how I can speed all that up enough for competition or rapid fire purposes without quality going to s**t, but as long as I can maintain minimal practical accuracy, OK.

JTB, those Rock Islands do seem to be the bargain value of the 1911 world.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (QDnY+)

310
Because they know you can't shoot them. All animals know the regulations and dates of hunting season.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 30, 2019 08:52 PM (fuK7c)

---
When I lived in the country, the feral cats and wildlife knew what guns looked like. They'd posture and preen until I went inside and came out with the shotgun.

Then they scampered away. They knew what a boomstick was.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (cfSRQ)

311 Yeah, game can read calendars.

In-laws in central Wisconsin had well over 100 acres, over half wooded, and large cleared areas around the house and garage.

All summer, the flock of wild turkeys were pests, as many as 40 of them walking nearly up to the house, and all over the back yard area.

But spring or fall shoot, nothing but a few loose feathers on the ground.

How do they know? I can understand if they scatter after the first few hours of opening day, but a couple of days before opening day, nothing but ghost turkeys.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (sy5kK)

312 304 No range time this week, but I did anneal about a hundred .30-'06 case necks today.
A year ago, I couldn't even spell anneal.
Thx, Weasel!
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (pP8cY)
-------
You go, grasshopper! Started turning the necks yet?

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (gcMCe)

313 Great work, Weasel. Sometimes I wonder if we care too much about gubs. Nah.

Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 09:03 PM (UUkQp)

314

Ahhh, doves.

This is a good time to re-recommend Porterhouse Blue. If you liked House Of Cards, the real Brit one, not the new garbage, you'll like Porterhouse Blue.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 09:03 PM (Xd1wG)

315 There is a 14 point buck running around in the bottoms across the road.

I wonder if someone will get him this year.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:04 PM (wXDpy)

316 RI Red - what method do you use for annealing? This is looking down the road quite a bit, but thinking about how to stretch [heh] my 3O-O6 brass for the M-1.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:05 PM (QDnY+)

317
British small arms: Nothing to see here.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (cfSRQ)

Normally I would rise to the debate , but today you know what? Fuckit your'e prolly right.

Just leave out civilian makers like Dickson, Boss, Rigby, H&H, etc and we can be friends.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 09:05 PM (bgJ0E)

318 Way OT. How the fuck do you run out of Italian bread in a sub shop? That's the second place that's screwed me.

Posted by: rickb223
...............
That's like my local Panera Bread running out of to go coffee cups at 8:30- am last week! WTF?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 30, 2019 09:05 PM (438dO)

319
Hi Moki - I will absolutely delete anything like that in this thread but don't think I can go back and make changes on the food thread.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:19 PM (MVjcR)

Hey, it's me. I didn't know there was a Moki here.
Much apologies,

delete it all. I didn't say anything worth keeping. - Except for the definition of 16"/50 and thanks for the answer.
Posted by: 1 at June 30, 2019 09:01 PM (WC8Gu)
--------
Thanks for saying so, 1. No way you could be expected to know. I'm sure moki-moki will be relieved! And welcome to the gun thread!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:06 PM (gcMCe)

320 311
Yeah, game can read calendars.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:02 PM (sy5kK)

---
There have been some proposals in Michigan to give the game authorities (DNR) the ability to shift the start dates for the seasons based on prevailing factors.

Firearm deer season opens on Nov. 15. It's practically a state holiday. The Legislature adjourns, etc.

It hasn't gone anywhere, but it might. Makes sense, since conditions vary from year to year.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 09:06 PM (cfSRQ)

321 oh wow.

yes, mFoNl is moki and has been here for a long time.

WC8Gu, I'm curious now, where'd you get the notion to use moki as your name too ?

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at June 30, 2019 09:07 PM (ykYG2)

322 313 Great work, Weasel. Sometimes I wonder if we care too much about gubs. Nah.
Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 09:03 PM (UUkQp)
------
Thanks!

And yeah, nah.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:07 PM (gcMCe)

323 NGU, nothing at the IDF twatters site yet [my first place to check]. But there was an interesting little item about the first Druze IAF pilot.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:08 PM (QDnY+)

324 Normally I would rise to the debate , but today you know what? Fuckit your'e prolly right.

Just leave out civilian makers like Dickson, Boss, Rigby, HH, etc and we can be friends.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 09:05 PM (bgJ0E)

---
Note that I'm not talking about sporting cartridges. I hear British shotguns are the ne plus ultra.

But in terms of military arms, the freaking Austrians have more to show for it. Steyr and Glock, for example.

Do the British even make handguns anymore?

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 09:08 PM (cfSRQ)

325 Nah, the only neck turning I'm doing involves sweet young things entirely too young to be looking at. Like 30 years old.
It's still on the ever-expanding list. The turner thingy, that is.
And with that, I'm outa here. I look forward to every Sunday night here, Big W.
Good night, Maroons, near and far. Even as far away as NZ!

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (pP8cY)

326 Question for the gub thread:
Are some rifle barrels coated in chrome (chromium)?

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (w7KSn)

327 Nah, deer don't know dates. They always go into rut the same time every year... and get stupid.
Turkey, now... turkey are extremely stupid, but very paranoid. They sense vibes, I think.
The old line, "If they could smell, they'd live forever" is apt.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (d9iRk)

328 I'm the one that did it.
Much apologies to Moki. Did not know there was a Moki at AoS.

Posted by: 1 at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (5BoQt)

329 Enfields seem like excellent bolt guns. And Webleys are fun.

How about Brens and stens?

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (QDnY+)

330 ' night, RI Red!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:10 PM (gcMCe)

331
Guess what:

Antifa Plans Acid Attack On Free Speech Rally?

I have a feeling this is either a) a false rumor, or b) a false rumor (like a bomb-scare) started by Antifa to cause the city to cancel the rally, or c) true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emPhwonP71Y

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 09:10 PM (Xd1wG)

332 328 I'm the one that did it.
Much apologies to Moki. Did not know there was a Moki at AoS.
Posted by: 1 at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (5BoQt)
--------
No worries, and again, welcome!

You a shooter?

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:11 PM (gcMCe)

333 I have a feeling this is either a) a false rumor, or b) a false rumor (like a bomb-scare) started by Antifa to cause the city to cancel the rally, or c) true.

Preemptively strike, just to be sure.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (d9iRk)

334 1, you have made it right and that is a big plus for you.

Welcome.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (wXDpy)

335 "281 A friend has a Remington 788 in .222 , 1:14 twist.

45 grain boat-tail Speer hollow points dispatch 150 yard ground hogs, every time. A flat, accurate shooter.

Many will claim that their AR with 1:9, 1:8 twist is just accurate
as hell, but, I'm dubious. Certainly with 55 gr. they are
over-stabilized. Okay, *almost* certainly.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 30, 2019 08:51 PM (/dN1M)"
..
The thing is, most people shooting match quality projectiles in .223 or 5.56 ARs are shooting 69-77gr bullets. 1:7 and 1:8 are perfectly find choices for those, and they'll shoot great.
When most people in ARs shoot 55gr projectiles, it's usually FMJBT with cannelure, with a healthy case mouth crimp for good measure. It's not too hard to get those to shoot 1.25-1.5 MOA out of a decent barrel if they're handloads or very high quality factory ammo - and that's downright fantastic for a service pattern rifle, if we're talking an AR - but they're not match bullets. The twist isn't the issue, the bullet is.

People loading light varmint bullets is apples and oranges. Varmint bullets tend to have thinner jackets for a number of reasons - accuracy and consistency among them - and they'll spin apart if you push them hard out of a fast twist barrel.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (67XdO)

336
I want to go turkey hunting, but like others have mentioned upthread, I have no where to go hunting & no one to go with / guide me

I'd like to deer hunt, but I'm a practical man

you shout an average deer, you have about 125 pounds to haul out of the woods

shoot a world record turkey? 37 pounds

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (KCxzN)

337 if I slow down quite a bit and focus a tremendous amount on exactly what my trigger finger is doing, and do not anticipate ..... it shoots exactly to point-of-aim. Don't see how I can speed all that up enough for competition or rapid fire ...

Posted by: rhomboid

Yeah, that's always the problem. I've been working on speed for a year or three now, and I still have a threshold where if I get too fast, my accuracy goes from Acceptable to Garbage with no stops in between.

I recommend dry fire practice, if you've got a pistol that's ok with dry firing. The "balance a nickel on the barrel" exercise really helped me when I got started.

Posted by: Lazy Messenger at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (f0Pv6)

338 300 Now I'm wondering about bird hunting. Don't you need a lot of... infrastructure to hunt waterfowl? Fake ducks? Kayaks? Camo netting? Little kazoos? Retrieving dogs?

I haven't got any of that stuff. Is upland hunting more approachable?
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (t+qrx)

Dog is mandatory, everything else is dependent on the specific terrain or situation.

But duck hunting with out a dog? Are you going to jump into the 34 degree water and swim 50 yards to fetch it?

I've had multiple Labs in my life, all of them started as pups and were acclimated to hunting by bringing them along when about a year old, with an older, experienced dog.

The older dog hates the pup, but knows how much fun duck or pheasant hunting is, so will put up with the pup's nipping and other BS.

And once the pup figures out that *BOOM!* means you get to charge in the water and find it and fetch it, the pup is hooked for life!

I had one Lab that I could not even bring the shotgun out to clean it, because the dog would go literally insane, wimping, panting, wagging his tail at my feet. And he would not stop, until I put the gun away clean. Then, the dog would throw a tantrum and ignore me, because I wasn't loading up the truck with gear. Like ignore me for a few days. It was crazy.

No, buddy, it's only June, hunting isn't until mid-October. I know, I know.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:13 PM (sy5kK)

339 Late to th thread - Sorry!

Was grilling for several hundred folks at our synagogue's annual Kosher BBQ.

Yum!

Also: Thanks, weasel, for the gub thread!

Posted by: ibguy at June 30, 2019 09:13 PM (EHVbt)

340 Oh - and in the excellent history book I'm reading [about the planned invasion of Japan in '45/'46] there was a photo and bit of into on a Japanese anti-tank rifle, semi-auto.

Never knew they fielded one. Russian ones are best known.

It was among all the delights the Imperial Army had waiting for our boys if they came to visit, and probably would have had a fair amount of practical application, esp. in Olympic [Kyushu] that had lots of terrain favorable to concealment for engaging vehicles from the side/back [or under-bellies of tanks as they cleared innumerable dikes and obstacles in the rice paddy areas].

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:13 PM (QDnY+)

341 British small arms: Nothing to see here.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM (cfSRQ)

In their defense, the Lee-Enfield was a rifle that got the job done. It came about when the Brits needed a rifle with multiple shots to control the natives in their far flung Empire, who were barred from owning firearms. The events of WW1 and WW2 were not foreseen at the time.

The 10 shot magazine gave the British or Colonial Trooper a multiple shot rifle to plug 10 natives/rebels between each reload.

After WW2, the commies sent weapons all over the globe which made holding the Empire an impossibility.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (Z+IKu)

342 AltonJackson, can you go to Alabama for 3 days?

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (wXDpy)

343 331
Guess what:

Antifa Plans Acid Attack On Free Speech Rally?

I have a feeling this is either a) a false rumor, or b) a false rumor (like a bomb-scare) started by Antifa to cause the city to cancel the rally, or c) true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emPhwonP71Y

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 09:10 PM (Xd1wG)

Have you seen the mental cases Antifa attracts? Would you put it past them knowing what you know and have learned about Antifa?

Posted by: tomorrow's trends today at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (nAjD1)

344 Hatchers Notebook and his Police forensics book tells all.
Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at June 30, 2019 08:47 PM (bgJ0E)
--------
I will have to check that out. Thanks NZFrank!
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 08:49 PM (gcMCe)

I had a copy of the Forensics Handbook, about 29 years ago.

The actions leave a powder residue signature on the shooter's face, forearm, fingers. Residue from a revolver is very different from a bolt in placement, quantity, and composition.

Recovering an intact bullet can get you a list of makes & models of firearms with the same rifling, maybe ammunition used, but not the exact firearm. Spent brass can give an image of the chamber, bolt face, and firing pin... but if they are all clean/polished it will give nothing more than the ammo brand.

This is why "they" want micro imprints in all guns. It could be something really cheap like a bar code machined longitudinally in the chamber... but "they" want it prohibitively expensive and non-existent tech too.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (1g7ch)

345 315 There is a 14 point buck running around in the bottoms across the road.

I wonder if someone will get him this year.
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:04 PM (wXDpy)

I'm pretty sure that buck can read Calendar.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (sy5kK)

346 Preemptively strike, just to be sure.
Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (d9iRk)

This guy knows what's up.

Posted by: Moshe Dayan at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (t+qrx)

347 337 if I slow down quite a bit and focus a tremendous amount on exactly what my trigger finger is doing, and do not anticipate ..... it shoots exactly to point-of-aim. Don't see how I can speed all that up enough for competition or rapid fire ...

Posted by: rhomboid

Yeah, that's always the problem. I've been working on speed for a year or three now, and I still have a threshold where if I get too fast, my accuracy goes from Acceptable to Garbage with no stops in between.

I recommend dry fire practice, if you've got a pistol that's ok with dry firing. The "balance a nickel on the barrel" exercise really helped me when I got started.
Posted by: Lazy Messenger at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (f0Pv6)
-------
We had an excellent video a couple months ago on managing trigger pull. lin-duh found it and sent it in.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (gcMCe)

348 Rhomboid, just saw your query. I learned from Weasel: hold the case in a socket from your wrench set. Hold in flame of propane torch for no more than five seconds and dunk in water. Let dry.
Did I do good, W?

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (pP8cY)

349 Question for the gub thread:
Are some rifle barrels coated in chrome (chromium)?
Posted by: navybrat

Chrome lined, yes.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (SCOa6)

350 you shot an average deer, you have about 125 pounds to haul out of the woods

Alton, aren't you in Ill?
If you check some websites, there are great vids and instructions on de-boning in the field.
A large doe may go 130#, de-boned, maybe 40?
That's backpack stuff.

Posted by: MarkY at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (d9iRk)

351 347 337 if I slow down quite a bit and focus a tremendous amount on exactly what my trigger finger is doing, and do not anticipate ..... it shoots exactly to point-of-aim. Don't see how I can speed all that up enough for competition or rapid fire ...

Posted by: rhomboid

Yeah, that's always the problem. I've been working on speed for a year or three now, and I still have a threshold where if I get too fast, my accuracy goes from Acceptable to Garbage with no stops in between.

I recommend dry fire practice, if you've got a pistol that's ok with dry firing. The "balance a nickel on the barrel" exercise really helped me when I got started.
Posted by: Lazy Messenger at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (f0Pv6)
-------
We had an excellent video a couple months ago on managing trigger pull. lin-duh found it and sent it in.
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (gcMCe)

Agreed and agreed. Learning to pull straight back, especially under stress, is hard.

Honestly, at speed, I tend to put two our of three shots dead on and the third shot is ALMOST always on the body somewhere. I'll settle for that.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 09:17 PM (xJa6I)

352 British small arms: Nothing to see here.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 08:59 PM

Ahem.

Posted by: Wentworth at June 30, 2019 09:17 PM (DMUuz)

353 Lazy Messenger, you are surely correct.

As noted, I may be able to live with my "rapid fire" accuracy, as it's enough for steel plates at 35-45 feet, or [unlikely to become relevant] minute-of-torso @ 25 feet.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:17 PM (QDnY+)

354
AltonJackson, can you go to Alabama for 3 days?

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM

sure!

surely the statute of limitations has expired

when are we talking about? I'm off this week...

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:17 PM (KCxzN)

355 LCD, don't you know it.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (wXDpy)

356 348 Rhomboid, just saw your query. I learned from Weasel: hold the case in a socket from your wrench set. Hold in flame of propane torch for no more than five seconds and dunk in water. Let dry.
Did I do good, W?
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (pP8cY)
--------
Yep. Although I'd recommend testing and verifying that timing on sacrificial brass with a product called Templac

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (gcMCe)

357 Thanks, I always regarded chrome as somewhat decorative, but I saw some specs on barrels where it was mentioned.
Does it help accuracy?

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (w7KSn)

358 329
Enfields seem like excellent bolt guns. And Webleys are fun.

How about Brens and stens?

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:09 PM (QDnY+)

---
I have a Webley and it's neat, but all of its competitors were better.

Luger P08, Colt 1911, even a Broomhandle would be better in a pinch.

The Bren is a Czech design and the Sten is a nasty bit of wartime work that got dropped as soon as something better came along.

Also, it was chambered in 9mm Luger - showing German dominance in the art of small arms.

It says something that the British special ops community insisted that they be issued the Browning Hi Power clones the moment they learned of them.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (cfSRQ)

359 Good thread - leaves me with the impression that the simply way to get some accuracy is stick with the 'correct' bullet weights for your rifling. Or eliminate a source for inaccuracy....

Maybe next for rifling an article on do-it-yourself rifling?

I saw a method of using controlled galvanic corrosion or the like to do it. Seemed a lot easier than going with 1800s log cabin tech.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (1g7ch)

360 British small arms: Nothing to see here.
Define "modern."In the age of the falling-block action, the British had superiority in cycle time -- as they did with the SMLE. After that, their operations people thought, they had moved on to other things. We made more British-designed rifles, for our own army use, than we did Springfield 03's in WWI. But that was then.

Fulminate of mercury primers, British invention. Kind of made everything else possible. So, they were there, they were there first, and then it was over.

And then, the French. Let's all tell our one French joke.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (8ZmvG)

361 After WW2, the commies sent weapons all over the globe which made holding the Empire an impossibility.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 30, 2019 09:14 PM (Z+IKu)

Well, it's not like the Brits tried. Soon as they got rid of Churchill, Labour took over and began shitting all over the country. Too many good men were dead to stop them. All the cowards, traitors and women took over the country.

Nothing lasts forever.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (xJa6I)

362 I love my Rock Island 1911.

It's in the shop getting a new front sight. Can't wait to get her back.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (PkVlr)

363 Dog is mandatory, everything else is dependent on the specific terrain or situation.
Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:13 PM (sy5kK)

OK, well that's out then. I haven't got a dog, have never had a dog, and can't really keep a hunting dog here in quarters which would be fair to the dog.

And besides, I've never been hunting myself. I have no clue how to raise a retriever from a hatchling into a proper gun dog, certainly not if I don't know what sort of behaviors and skills to train.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (t+qrx)

364 Thanks, RI Red.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (QDnY+)

365 AltonJackson, I will email you.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (wXDpy)

366 I want to go turkey hunting, but like others have mentioned upthread, I have no where to go hunting & no one to go with / guide me

I'd like to deer hunt, but I'm a practical man

you shout an average deer, you have about 125 pounds to haul out of the woods

shoot a world record turkey? 37 pounds
Posted by: AltonJackson

Did it. The shoppers in the frozen food section liked to shit their drawers. The manager wasn't too impressed.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:20 PM (SCOa6)

367
We live in a time in our nation's history when a large, "mainstream" media-supported terrorist group called "anti-fascist" is about to violently protest a rally in the USA in support of the First Amendment.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 09:20 PM (Xd1wG)

368
copy, Ben Had

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:21 PM (KCxzN)

369 Late to the thread, back from little sister's memorial service.

Great thread, as usual, Weasel, though, I have nothing of note to contribute.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:21 PM (WEBkv)

370 Weasel, noted. But any annealing is probably a ways off, expect to reload my HXP brass a minimum of 3 times before worrying about it [I inspect all cases].

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:21 PM (QDnY+)

371

OF COURSE the Democrats and Fake News support the fascist "antifa" antics because they'd love nothing more than a repeat of charlottesville, which was a repeat of that idiot fascist rachel corrie's death.

Posted by: Soothsayer -- Fake Commenter at June 30, 2019 09:22 PM (Xd1wG)

372 Templac??!
Damn, Weasel, this sport keeps getting more complicated.

Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:22 PM (pP8cY)

373 Did it. The shoppers in the frozen food section liked to shit their drawers. The manager wasn't too impressed.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:20 PM (SCOa6)

---------------

But, did you eat what you shot?

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:22 PM (WEBkv)

374 hogmartin, there are game sights in Kansas that provide the dogs and the cleaning of your birds.

They are like going to a hunting hotel. Meals and lodging included.

Or, you can read the email I am sending Alton Jackson

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:23 PM (wXDpy)

375 Masked white Democrats attack a person of color in Portland.
Different from the KKK, how?

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:23 PM (w7KSn)

376 356 348 Rhomboid, just saw your query. I learned from Weasel: hold the case in a socket from your wrench set. Hold in flame of propane torch for no more than five seconds and dunk in water. Let dry.
Did I do good, W?
Posted by: RI Red at June 30, 2019 09:15 PM (pP8cY)
--------
Yep. Although I'd recommend testing and verifying that timing on sacrificial brass with a product called Templac

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:18 PM (gcMCe)
-------
I also use a cordless screwdriver to spin the brass in the flame tip and dump the brass on a wet towel in the sink. Timing is critical and it's possible to "overcook" brass.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:23 PM (MVjcR)

377 Thanks, I always regarded chrome as somewhat decorative, but I saw some specs on barrels where it was mentioned.
Does it help accuracy?
Posted by: navybrat

Helps against wear.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:24 PM (SCOa6)

378 369 Late to the thread, back from little sister's memorial service.

Great thread, as usual, Weasel, though, I have nothing of note to contribute.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:21 PM (WEBkv)
------
Sorry to hear about your day, blake.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (MVjcR)

379 But, did you eat what you shot?
Posted by: blake

After it thawed, yes.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (SCOa6)

380 I want to go turkey hunting, but like others have mentioned upthread, I have no where to go hunting & no one to go with / guide me
Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:12 PM (KCxzN)

There ought to be tearjerky late-night commercials with doe-eyed Morons looking forlornly at the camera in slow motion.

For only pennies a day, you can give a Moron the dream of hunting! Every month, you will receive a personal letter from your Moron, handwritten in crayon. Some of the drawings even have titties on 'em.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (t+qrx)

381 362 I love my Rock Island 1911.

It's in the shop getting a new front sight. Can't wait to get her back.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (PkVlr)
-----------

Loved my RI until I discovered Kimber. And Sig.

So many 1911's, so little time.

I'm looking into buying another Kimber so the one I have doesn't get lonesome.

But, then, my Sig might get jealous of not having a companion also.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (WEBkv)

382 123. If the rifling on a particular gun is done to exacting standards, how can the lands and grooves on bullets that help identify a unique gun for law enforcement be unique? From wear over time?

===
Manufacturing tolerances. It is almost impossible to make identical-identical machined parts. And I don't know of any commercial-item manufacturers who would spend the time to do so.

But...I can see where barrels button-rifled with the same button may have pretty gol-darned close to identical rifling.

Posted by: Gref at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (AMIL/)

383 @352 Wentworth?
Do you mean the Wentworth range in the UK, where some old regiments have rifle matches?

Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (8ZmvG)

384 Sorry to hear about your day, blake.
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:25 PM (MVjcR)
----------

Thanks you.

Enough about that, though, this is a gun thread and I shan't thread jack.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (WEBkv)

385 Or, you can read the email I am sending Alton Jackson
Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:23 PM (wXDpy)

Standing by, thank you.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (t+qrx)

386 Thanks for a very informative thread on rifling, Weasel!
I don't understand it like I should, but then, I don't understand automatic transmissions either, yet, I drive every day.

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (w7KSn)

387 Anyone have thoughts on Remington R1 1911?

The better half would like to get something go to the range.
I am thinking something classical and plain vanilla.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (1g7ch)

388 Masked white Democrats attack a person of color in Portland.

Different from the KKK, how?

Not at all. By the way, the victim developed a brain bleed.

Posted by: An Observation at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (Wbena)

389 Oh damn. The entire thread. Reposted.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (SCOa6)

390 Well that's a first.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (t+qrx)

391 Aww, jeez...

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (w7KSn)

392 363 Dog is mandatory, everything else is dependent on the specific terrain or situation.
Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:13 PM (sy5kK)

OK, well that's out then. I haven't got a dog, have never had a dog, and can't really keep a hunting dog here in quarters which would be fair to the dog.

And besides, I've never been hunting myself. I have no clue how to raise a retriever from a hatchling into a proper gun dog, certainly not if I don't know what sort of behaviors and skills to train.
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:19 PM (t+qrx)

It does NOT have to be your dog. It can be your friend's dog. Which means you are paying for the ammo and the gas to get there and back.

That was my rule anyway, and nobody without a dog had a problem with it. Of course, I made sure to go out once pre-season with them to make sure they knew how to handle a firearm.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (sy5kK)

393 Blake,
Prayers for you.

I can't afford a kimber! I've never shot one, nor have I held one. And that's a good thing! I did like Mark's Remington (I think) 1911.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM (PkVlr)

394 Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:28 PM (MVjcR)

Dude.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM (NWiLs)

395 389 Oh damn. The entire thread. Reposted.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (SCOa6)
-----
was not!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM (MVjcR)

396 Hot damn Weasel, I'm gonna be laughing all night at that.

Posted by: Emperor Country Boy at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (0cg3w)

397 Weasel got to clean up his own mess!
The perks of being a COB.
LOL

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (w7KSn)

398
too bad there aren't any pheasant around here anymore, hogmartin

you can pheasant hunt without a dog (with marginal success, but you can do it)

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (KCxzN)

399 Thanks for a very informative thread on rifling, Weasel!
I don't understand it like I should, but then, I don't understand automatic transmissions either, yet, I drive every day.

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:27 PM (w7KSn)
------
so good it's worth reading the comments twice!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (MVjcR)

400 One of the better commenters at The High Road is a police firearm forensics guy. Interesting posts.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (QDnY+)

401 It does NOT have to be your dog. It can be your friend's dog. Which means you are paying for the ammo and the gas to get there and back.
Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (sy5kK)

Well that simplifies things. I still need someone (with a dog) to go along as a sponsor/mentor, but that's no different than any other kind of hunt.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (t+qrx)

402 That's not fair that you can delete your wall posts and we can't!!!

Posted by: Emperor Country Boy at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (0cg3w)

403 was not!
Posted by: Weasel

Snort.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (SCOa6)

404 396 Hot damn Weasel, I'm gonna be laughing all night at that.

Posted by: Emperor Country Boy at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (0cg3w)
-----
THAT was an alertness test!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (MVjcR)

405 Nobody mentioned it so I will "be that guy."
If you've never hunted at all, and would like to just shoot something you can eat, there are many "pheasant farms" that set up controlled hunts. You'll want to practice trap-shooting quite a bit, and trap-shooters at clubs are pretty friendly about sharing the basic skills. Often you'll find a group of them who like to go shoot at something live just for a change (skeets are tough).

Farm will "plant" the birds, clearly indicate where to walk, and if dogs are needed to scare them up, they'll have the dogs. It costs more than finding your own open field and training your own dogs -- generally you will pay by the planted bird -- but you're almost guaranteed something to take home, you'll only be so far afield, and you can get help with the cleaning.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (8ZmvG)

406 too bad there aren't any pheasant around here anymore, hogmartin
Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:31 PM (KCxzN)

Put the Plucker's Union out of business, that did.

I wonder if I could train one of the cats to retrieve.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (t+qrx)

407 Cobs go to the Cob Barrel. Makes regular barrel look like Disneyland.

Posted by: josephistan at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (Izzlo)

408 I can't afford a kimber! I've never shot one, nor have I held one. And that's a good thing! I did like Mark's Remington (I think) 1911.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM (PkVlr)
-------------

Everything in life is a trade-off.

You might have to give up buying cute shoes for a few months if you decide to move up to a Kimber or a Sig.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (WEBkv)

409 401 It does NOT have to be your dog. It can be your friend's dog. Which means you are paying for the ammo and the gas to get there and back.
Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:29 PM (sy5kK)

Well that simplifies things. I still need someone (with a dog) to go along as a sponsor/mentor, but that's no different than any other kind of hunt.
Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:32 PM (t+qrx)

someone up-thread also mentioned to look up a local hunting website or group and introduce yourself. Start a conversation or two first, before you ask about riding along.

There are months to go before opening day. Good luck!

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:35 PM (sy5kK)

410 Bought one more can of factory [local not national brand] 45 Colt 'afore tomorrow's idiotic CA ammo change, in which I don't plan to participate [reload almost everything I shoot, have factory reserves of same for "guest" shooters, and self-defense ammo, plus healthy pile of shotgun and rimfire].

LAX Ammo, have shot about 15O of this load out of the 1866 repro and it works fine - plus it will be my reloading base of brass - and they use Starline.

Posted by: rhomboid at June 30, 2019 09:36 PM (QDnY+)

411 If you've never hunted at all, and would like to just shoot something you can eat, there are many "pheasant farms" that set up controlled hunts.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (8ZmvG)

It has its place, I imagine, but I'm more interested in developing the skills to be able to go out by myself at some point. That's why I wouldn't mind doing a season of empty-hand scouting with a hunter, learning to spot signs and get an idea for what terrain to look for.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 30, 2019 09:37 PM (t+qrx)

412 I can't afford a kimber! I've never shot one, nor have I held one. And that's a good thing! I did like Mark's Remington (I think) 1911.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM

Wait until you meet Les Baer.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 30, 2019 09:37 PM (DMUuz)

413 The type of hunting I would love to do is feral hogs in TX.
No license, no bag limit, no tags.
Just blast away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAfJG1PMjbY

Posted by: navybrat, another fine mess at June 30, 2019 09:38 PM (w7KSn)

414
Everything in life is a trade-off.

You might have to give up buying cute shoes for a few months if you decide to move up to a Kimber or a Sig.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:34 PM (WEBkv)

That's only a pair of Manolo Blahnik's or Jimmy Choos.

Your closet will never know the difference!

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:38 PM (sy5kK)

415
I can't afford a kimber! I've never shot one, nor have I held one. And that's a good thing! I did like Mark's Remington (I think) 1911.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM (PkVlr)
-------------

Thank you for the prayers, nurse, I really appreciate it.

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 30, 2019 09:39 PM (WEBkv)

416
recv'd, Ben Had

thanks

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:39 PM (KCxzN)

417 hogmartin, when you come in Oct you will meet a friend that pheasant hunts in Kansas/Nebraska and big game hunts in Namibia.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 30, 2019 09:39 PM (wXDpy)

418
hogmartin, got your e-mail; yes

Posted by: AltonJackson at June 30, 2019 09:41 PM (KCxzN)

419 Nood. Early ONT

Posted by: ALH at June 30, 2019 09:41 PM (htgmn)

420 I can't afford a kimber! I've never shot one, nor have I held one. And that's a good thing! I did like Mark's Remington (I think) 1911.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:30 PM
---
come visit us here in The Valley, like totally, fer sure.

R3sident 3vil will let you try all her Kimbers, and the Para Ords, the Dan Wesson, and....

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (PzPE7)

421 It was always my understanding that higher twist rates mainly benefited accuracy with quality, match-grade ammunition, and adversely affected accuracy with standard ammunition... And using quality ammo in low-twist-rate barrels offered only modest and negligible improvements in accuracy over standard ammo....

Posted by: Zettai Roshia-no Botto at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (7WaWV)

422 Navybrat, sometimes you can just sit on your deck and kill a feral hog here in Texas. Of course that's letting them get too close.

Posted by: Eromero at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (UUkQp)

423 Thank you for the thread, Weasel.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (PkVlr)

424 A spinning projectile is much more accurate to longer distances than one which is merely lobbed from a smoothbore barrel, and I'm not sure why it took the British so long to catch on.

The Brits were well aware of rifles, but since there was little big game in Britain and rifles weren't particularly useful in warfare they never made many until around 1850. Those they did make were generally very good, though, at least from around 1730 on.

Posted by: Grey Fox at June 30, 2019 09:44 PM (bZ7mE)

425 OK everyone! THANKS for stopping by and spending some of your Sunday watching me goof things up. You all passed the entirely on-purpose alertness test. Congratulations and I hope to see you next week!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:44 PM (MVjcR)

426 423 Thank you for the thread, Weasel.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (PkVlr)
------
My pleasure!

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:45 PM (MVjcR)

427 421 It was always my understanding that higher twist rates mainly benefited accuracy with quality, match-grade ammunition, and adversely affected accuracy with standard ammunition... And using quality ammo in low-twist-rate barrels offered only modest and negligible improvements in accuracy over standard ammo....

Posted by: Zettai Roshia-no Botto at June 30, 2019 09:43 PM (7WaWV)
------
It's really caliber/bullet/load specific.

Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 09:48 PM (MVjcR)

428
The "swedish cure" is actually the "Swedish Additive" (titanium dioxide and wax). An upgrade was to encase the propellant in polyurethans bags; when the powder ignited the poly formed a protective film, greatly reducing wear. Strangely, no "bow chikka wow wow" music used.

Posted by: Arbalest at June 30, 2019 09:48 PM (FlRtG)

429 It was always my understanding that higher twist rates mainly benefited accuracy with quality, match-grade ammunition, and adversely affected accuracy with standard ammunition... And using quality ammo in low-twist-rate barrels offered only modest and negligible improvements in accuracy over standard ammo....

A bullet needs a certain rotational speed to stabilize, mostly dictated by its length in proportion to its width. Heavier bullets for a given caliber need faster rates because they are longer. A higher velocity results in faster rotation for a given twist.

Posted by: Grey Fox at June 30, 2019 09:49 PM (bZ7mE)

430

I found this site a few years back, about feral hog hunting in East Texas.

The thread started in 2009. There is nothing else like it I have seen on the interwebz. This guy is a land owner. With a feral hog problem.

The thread has evolved and is possibly the most informative single source of hog hunting anywhere. Lots of pics and people adding to it.

Warning: If you click on the link and start reading it, you will not be able to stop.

I mean it.

Ask me how I know.

(wait! the sun is coming up! already?)

https://tinyurl.com/y3shdwyr

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at June 30, 2019 09:50 PM (sy5kK)

431 Anyone have thoughts on Remington R1 1911?

I have one. Feels good. Shoots good. Comes with a $75 rebate until September something. $479 + $8 shipping at http://bit.ly/2J6qsT1

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 10:19 PM (yQpMk)

432 Also in stainless

http://bit.ly/2LwycTh

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 10:23 PM (yQpMk)

433 Thanks Grump

Posted by: Burnt Toast at June 30, 2019 10:40 PM (1g7ch)

434 Ruger AR 556 AR 15 .223 / 5.56 NATO 16.1-inch 30 Rd

$479 + $7.99 Flat Rate Shipping

http://bit.ly/2LuoS2e

Posted by: Grump928(C) at June 30, 2019 10:42 PM (yQpMk)

435 I don't remember using a calculator, but as I set out to build a rifle that would be accurate to a half mile, everything I used had high BC's and fast twist rates.

I ended up putting a heavy .260 barrel on a Savage .308. I did this work myself, but I let a gunsmith collimate the scope on an elevated rail. Learned to load my own, and we got good at putting most bullets into a 10" circle on AR steel at 860yds from benchrest.

Posted by: cpurick at June 30, 2019 11:01 PM (7YrFp)

436 My one French joke:

Q. Why are the boulevards of Paris lined with trees?

A. So the Germans can march in the shade.

Posted by: Sharkman at June 30, 2019 11:04 PM (A+rex)

437 43 I'm also starting to suspect that you are not a real weasel.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 30, 2019 07:21 PM (gC2IV)
-----
Am too! Ask anyone who has met me!
Posted by: Weasel at June 30, 2019 07:25 PM (MVjcR)

Hah!
If you are a real weasel you are no stranger to
The Weasel War Dance.

Oops.
Link to follow.

Posted by: Waepnedmann at July 01, 2019 12:13 AM (pb9v3)

438 The Weasel War Dance:
https://youtu.be/uZOjwzInj2g

Posted by: Waepnedmann at July 01, 2019 12:15 AM (pb9v3)

439 97 Counterboring is done at the chamber end of the barrel; crowning is done at the muzzle.
Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at June 30, 2019 07:39 PM (jkv81)

+1

Vang used to counterbore shotgun barrels to tighten the pattern and reduce recoil (in addition to porting the barrel).
I have a counterbored barrel for my 870. It exceeds a full choke in patterning.
The Flitecontrol wad has pretty much eliminated the need for counterboring a shot gun to tighten patterns in buckshot rounds.

Posted by: Waepnedmann at July 01, 2019 12:36 AM (pb9v3)

440 175 I've never been hunting. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at it, learning how to skin and clean a kill, etc. Outdoor skills are good things to have.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 30, 2019 08:14 PM (NWiLs)

Check out Elk 101.
There is a great video about the gutless method of field dressing an elk.
It will make you want to hunt Elk just try try the gutless method.
Done with a small blade. A BFK is not needed.
One guy used a multi-tool.

Posted by: Waepnedmann at July 01, 2019 01:22 AM (pb9v3)

441 A couple of things:
The "weight" of the bullet is not the most critical factor in the twist-rate caper. Overall LENGTH is.
Classic, modern example: ,224" 62gn M855 / SS-109 bullets Vs Sierra 63gn "spire points". The 63 gn sierras will stabilize in a 1:12" twist barrel at "AR-15" velocities. The one grain LIGHTER 62gn M855 WILL NOT. The Sierra is only a whisker longer than the 55n M-193 bullet as opposed to the LIGHTER M-855 which, because of its composite core and greater length, needs a 1"10" twist or tighter in the same rifle.
The "Father" of all this was a bloke called Greenhill. There is, as always, a catch. Greenhill was crunching the numbers when smokeless powder and "streamlined", jacketed / composite bullets were barely thought about.
Another two ways of making a rifled barre are:
Hammer forging and EDM (Electro-Discharge Machining).
Hammer forging is best explained visually; but basically a short round bar of barrel steel with a precision-lapped, larger-than groove-diameter hole from end to end, is placed over an insanely expensive mandrel that has a "reverse" / negative of the required rifling n it. Revolving rings of round-ended "hammers" are driven into the outer circumference of the bar in opposite pairs and the whole assembly simultaneously moves lengthwise along the bar. This causes the steel to both "squeeze" onto the rifling mandrel and to flow lengthwise, with several "military" makers also form the chamber in the final few inches of the travel of the rotary hammers. It takes only a minute or so per barrel, is an incredibly noisy process , and the machinery is eye-wateringly expensive.
Invented by the Germans in the Second Great Unpleasantness, because the product testers in the field were going though machine-gun barrels like crazy. The process of "hammering" also seems to "toughen" the steel in the immediate radius of the rifling and thus extend barrel life a bit.

EDM uses a "plastic" mandrel onto which are wound the required number of conductive "tracks". This is inserted into a finely lapped "smooth-bore" barrel, immersed in an electrolytic brew and the juice turned on. It is not unlike reverse electroplating, with the electric current "eroding away" metal to form helical grooves; rifling with a very high precision. Time consuming and generally only used on barrels for some target-grade handguns.

Posted by: Bruce at July 01, 2019 03:19 AM (7rlrd)

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