Tariffs Are A Legitimate And Effective Tool In American Foreign Policy

A strict economic analysis of tariffs will always put them in a bad light, because after all, they are designed to distort trade. But tariffs are a powerful tool in the foreign policy arsenal, and they stop short of war, which, I am sure, disappoints the Never-Trumper neo-cons who never met a diplomatic issue that didn't require dead American soldiers.
Trump says tariffs on China could be raised by another $300 billion if necessary
I'll take a trade war over a shooting war every time!

Negotiations between Beijing and President Donald Trump’s administration took a turn for the worse in early May with the increase of tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods exported to the U.S., and an effective ban on American companies doing business with Chinese telecom giant Huawei.

Notice how this is framed by the reporter? The reality is exactly the opposite, because the tariff signals another step in the negotiations over our trade imbalance. You can argue whether that imbalance is important, but the fact that the president is using tariffs as a negotiating tactic simply means that he is serious.

And the stuff about Huawei is just silly. They are the de facto electronic spying division for the Chinese government and military. President Trump is acting as a prudent commander in chief by restricting their products, and he should be praised for taking seriously the security of the United States.

Posted by: CBD at 06:24 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 First?

Posted by: Curby William Graham at June 06, 2019 06:29 PM (KKzVa)

2 2ND

Posted by: Big Star at June 06, 2019 06:29 PM (nb8+g)

3 My people don't care for these giant taxes called tariffs. And I take care of my people.

Posted by: Sen John Cornhole at June 06, 2019 06:31 PM (hjaPQ)

4 Lenovo also has had built-in spyware.

I wouldn't have one of those either.

Posted by: Miklos, supposed to have been in Beijing 30 years ago at June 06, 2019 06:31 PM (QzkSJ)

5 Tariffs piss off my wife's family.

Capiche?

Posted by: The Turtle at June 06, 2019 06:31 PM (LowzQ)

6 let's even the score.

Posted by: trapper's girl at June 06, 2019 06:31 PM (xUM2B)

7 I want a big fat tariff imposed on this fraudster:

Brother- f&&$er filing fraudulent federal tax returns with her non brother. .

@IlhanMN was married to Ahmed Nur Said Elmi from 2009-2017.

LOLGF

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 06:33 PM (wMHPW)

8 Hamilton loved tariffs. Libtards love Hamilton.

Why don't libtards love tariffs?

Posted by: torabora at June 06, 2019 06:34 PM (LowzQ)

9 I'll take a trade war over a shooting war every time!

====

You don't have to have either one if you are always willing to be robbed, raped, enslaved or murdered.

Posted by: jc at June 06, 2019 06:35 PM (PuMKG)

10 tarrifs are rayciss and unconstitutional !!!!

but obamacare penalties are legit a tax

Posted by: vmom superior, order of sweet merciless ninjas at June 06, 2019 06:35 PM (dm05u)

11 No matter what Trump does they will attack him for it. Doesn't matter. He should just tell the far left congress to ESAD.

Posted by: Vic at June 06, 2019 06:36 PM (mpXpK)

12 Elaine tells me there's no support for these raysis tariffs.

Posted by: Bitch McConnell Checking His Net Worth at June 06, 2019 06:36 PM (hjaPQ)

13 Gee, a reporter framing things to make PDT look bad? Say it ain't so!

Posted by: blake - used sock salesman at June 06, 2019 06:37 PM (qC1Sy)

14 You can't have a negotiation unless the other side has something to gain, or something not to lose.

Previously our "negotiations" with China (also Mexico, NATO, etc.) went like this:

"How about you do what we want?"

"How about you go fuck yourself? We're perfectly happy with the present situation."

"OK. This has been a productive exchange of views."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:37 PM (YqDXo)

15 Por favor, Meester Trump

We don wan do stinkin tarifas

Posted by: Mexico, pursuing a Bad Neighbor Policy at June 06, 2019 06:37 PM (QzkSJ)

16 Imagine how much more amazing trump would be if the dems and press were only as oppositional as they were to Reagan. They are an absolute insurgency now.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:37 PM (dNzKv)

17 Bbbbbut 5 cent burrito increase!!!!!!

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at June 06, 2019 06:37 PM (FiUMj)

18 Willowed comment on previous thread:

Washington State court rules against florist in gay case.

The
court had previously heard the case, State of Washington v. Arlene's
Flowers, ruling that Barronelle Stutzman and her store, Arlene's
Flowers, violated the Washington Law Against Discrimination (WLAD) for
refusing to make floral arrangements for a gay couple in 2013.

I
don't know who concocted that BS lie but it wasn't that they refused to
make floral arrangements. They refused to attend the wedding and the
whole case was a setup by those two homo-Nazis.

Posted by: Vic at June 06, 2019 06:38 PM (mpXpK)

19 Ace if you're reading comments - NYT and WaPo are making noise about a possibly impending cave-in by Mexico on immigration / asylum prior to tariff d/l on Mon.

I'd link but I'm on a stupid phone.

Anyway, it might be good for a post if it's true...

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at June 06, 2019 06:38 PM (/7J8c)

20 What this country needs is a good 5 cent burrito.

Posted by: Miklos, from the Chamber of Commerce at June 06, 2019 06:39 PM (QzkSJ)

21 Trump designates Grim Reaper as an illegal immigrant.
Funeral industry hard hit.
Mr Reaper only doing job Americans unwilling to do.

Posted by: N.L. Urker, champion of Urkers everywhere at June 06, 2019 06:39 PM (JgA4k)

22 I like the escalating sanctions. The ball (or, la pelota!) is completely in Mexico's court and they can stop this BS anytime they want. They just have to want to.

I get Cornyn is concerned about trade, but we are out of non-violent options to stop the madness at the border.

And China.... pfttt. They'll adjust and frankly, the only thing they understand and respect is strength.

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 06:39 PM (wMHPW)

23 I am all for stopping illegal immigration. As long as my guacamole doesn't cost me more.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:39 PM (dNzKv)

24 I propose from now on that Nazis and fascists be called socialist and only socialists. Let's use our power of words back at the socialists of the democrat party.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (pw+jk)

25 Sorry I know this is so last thread. But Trump knocked it out of the park. I don't think I would have been able to get through that speech, because you know, allergies, dust and whatnot. God bless those men.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (P9m8O)

26 The Turtle @ 5- I would not be surprised that Elaine Chao was forced/bought/embraced being more Chinese than American.

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (qBNEP)

27 Pres Trump increasing healthcare costs on middle class Americans by imposing an immigration ban on grim reapers.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:41 PM (dNzKv)

28 Dollar Tree Store Hardest Hit.

How much crap do Americans need from little starving children making stupid plastic trinkets in the PRC?

I will pay more just to see the McConnells of the world bitch about their lost profits and shrinking influence.

Posted by: Czech Chick at June 06, 2019 06:41 PM (J9wxX)

29 I have been thinking about all of the NeverTrumps, especially Erick Erickson who have been cluck cluck clucking their tongues over how could anyone possibly have criticized that nice David French.

But David French is the epitome of the kind of man who cannot conceive of a leader actually Fighting for his goals, and fighting to win. Calm and meek surrender while timidly noting a couple of minor concerns you may have, but not even that if anyone would be offended.

David French is shocked, shocked, shocked that anyone could ever advocate doing anything as vulgar as using Tariffs to advance your foreign policy goals. That Just Is Not Done by Gentlemen.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 06, 2019 06:41 PM (V2Yro)

30 ruling that Barronelle Stutzman and her store
=====

That's a great name.

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (JcXHH)

31 Hamilton loved tariffs. Libtards love Hamilton.

Why don't libtards love tariffs?

Posted by: torabora at June 06, 2019 06:34 PM (LowzQ)

====
Which Hamilton? The racist white Hamilton or the all good black Hamilton?

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (pw+jk)

32 But tariffs are just taxes on American citizens and have no effect whatsoever on the country the tariff is placed on!

Posted by: blaster at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (ZfRYq)

33 Mexico is blocking illegal immigrants already. I've always wanted a President who kicks ass and don't give a shit and I think this is as close as we will ever get.

Posted by: freaked at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (UdKB7)

34 I am all for stopping illegal immigration. As long as my guacamole doesn't cost me more.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:39 PM

As someone last night pointed out. These same smacktards will tell you the tariff will make guac cost a nickel more but then tell you that doubling minimum wage won't. Suddenly they care!

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (P9m8O)

35 Mexico is blocking illegal immigrants already. I've always wanted a President who kicks ass and don't give a shit and I think this is as close as we will ever get.
=====

It's gone from "Mexico will pay for the wall," to "Mexico will be the wall."

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (JcXHH)

36 I don't know who concocted that BS lie but it wasn't that they refused to make floral arrangements. They refused to attend the wedding and the whole case was a setup by those two homo-Nazis.
Posted by: Vic at June 06, 2019 06:38 PM (mpXpK)

Hope you noted my comments in the previous thread - I think the Washington State Supreme Court made a huge mistake by kicking this back to the SCOTUS.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (V2Yro)

37 25 Sorry I know this is so last thread. But Trump knocked it out of the park. I don't think I would have been able to get through that speech, because you know, allergies, dust and whatnot. God bless those men.
Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (P9m8O)
------
Just watched it. Amazing job.

Posted by: Weasel at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (MVjcR)

38 Meanwhile, Vlad Putin and Mao II renewed their vows of eternal partnership and mutual admiration yesterday. And Russia signed on for a Huawei 5G telecom network. "We have no secrets to hide from our Chinese comrades", Putin probably said.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 06:44 PM (Pqytn)

39 Trump may be America's first Blackjack president.

Posted by: Miklos, Every century or so gotta remind people at June 06, 2019 06:44 PM (QzkSJ)

40 It will take companies a year or two to source their products in other countries. Then it will be "China who?"

I remember reading somewhere that the Chinese had to create 25 million jobs per year just to keep pace with population growth. A small contraction in the manufacturing sector will crush them.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:44 PM (dNzKv)

41 I ain't no ways tahrr'iffd.
*hic*

Posted by: Hilldabeast is Three Sharts To The Wind at June 06, 2019 06:44 PM (9n8Ty)

42 TFG -- I object to these trade imbalances, your honor.

China -- Overruled.

TFG -- I strenuously object!

China -- Lol get fucked.

*our prior negotiating strategy*

Posted by: GnuBreed at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (Z4rgH)

43 The thing that made me saddest about Trump's speech today is that I remember Reagan's speech on the 40th anniversary - and it seems like it was just yesterday.

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (V2Yro)

44 They'd be legitimate if anybody actually thought they were.

But it's turning into another "Perception is Reality" shitshow.

Posted by: Hikaru at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (pgXNG)

45 Just comparing the last 25 years with the last 2 years should be enough for anyone to applaud us forcing China to play fair.

As he did in Europe, he offered the Chinese real free trade. If they would remove THEIR tariffs and barriers, he would remove ours.

Ask the Europeans did, they said no and thus Trump demands there be a balance.

That the media doesn't understand this is no surprise. What' going to become a problem is that the Coc suckers of the GOPe will now reveal themselves as being more concerned over China's workers than American workers.

This should be a scary thing for any Senators up for reelection.

We forgot what having a job and working for a living meant. And it's much more than having a few more bucks in your pocket. You feel like you're in charge of your life and you feel as if you're making a difference let alone giving your children some positive role models and some Founding Father Wisdom to be passed on.

That Mexico has stepped on their dick is just a bonus. Some Senator of a Mexican state (probably cartel bought and paid for) has claimed Mexico should take the American States back.

Molon Labe pendejo!

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (sc+Xh)

46 We are talking about a trade *war*, are we not? And it is to be expected that there will be casualties, is it not?
Wars are fought in the full knowledge that there are immediate cost, losses. We accept these losses in the short term for greater benefit (or to avoid greater losses) in the future.
This oughtn't to be difficult to understand. A great concentration of attention is required to misunderstand.

Posted by: ameryx at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (W0i9q)

47 Good thing is there's a good chance we crush China's banking and finance system. They've been playing fucky fucky with the numbers and the whole system is floating massive credit on very little actual assets.

Really it'll be good for them. Flush all those toxins out of the system.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 06, 2019 06:45 PM (4ErVI)

48 From the previous thread: I haven't been following the story but in the 4th quarter Lowry made a diving ball-save into the crowd through the first few rows of courtside seats. A VIP-type in the front row punched/pushed him while he was laying there trying to get up. Lowry told the officials and the NBA guys reviewed the incident and had the VIP tossed from the game. I don't know who the VIP guy was.

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 06:46 PM (Dh1wo)

49 But tariffs are just taxes on American citizens and have no effect whatsoever on the country the tariff is placed on!
Posted by: blaster at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (ZfRYq)

Lol wut?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:46 PM (dNzKv)

50 Why don't libtards love tariffs?

Posted by: torabora at June 06, 2019 06:34 PM (LowzQ)

Meanwhile, California Reds are laying awake at night trying to figure out a way around Prop. 13, so they can jack property taxes on the ~~bourgeoisie~~ homeowners through the roof.

So a tariff (in essence) on the property of American citizens is A-OK, but one on a foreign, semi-hostile power is anathema, and outrage against galactic justice.

Oh. OK.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:46 PM (YqDXo)

51 Two kinds of tariffs, business and punishment, China is business, Mexico is punishment

Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 06:47 PM (BbGew)

52 But tariffs are just taxes on American citizens and have no effect whatsoever on the country the tariff is placed on!
Posted by: blaster at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (ZfRYq)

Cue the earlier thread where the "journalist" admitted she didn't know shit about business.

Is the situation becoming clearer now?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:47 PM (YqDXo)

53 foreign, semi-hostile power
=====

They're favorite kind.

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (JcXHH)

54 Their*

Sorry

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (JcXHH)

55 As to avos.

I just got back from my local Mexican market. I go there because they have the cheapest, best (because of turnover) produce and a great butcher counter.

Mexi avos 1.29 each. Locally grown avos 1.39. The Mexican avos go black the minute you buy them and suck. The local, California avos take a few days to get ripe and no brown spots or rotten areas. I'd say they are cheaper by 30% for usable avocado.

The avocado gambit is complete socialist democrat propaganda. Plus the cartels are big in the avocado market from Mexico. More payoffs from the Mexican criminals to the socialist democrats and the media but I repeat myself.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (pw+jk)

56 On the 75th Anniversary of D-Day, the media is trying to convince America to be scared of more expensive burritos. What's sad is that it actually works.

Posted by: the dandy at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (bR08X)

57 Aw Dr John has passed.

Posted by: freaked at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (UdKB7)

58 Replace tool with weapon and we agree.

Posted by: Marcus T at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (+/wt2)

59 Sorry I know this is so last thread. But Trump knocked it out of the park. I don't think I would have been able to get through that speech, because you know, allergies, dust and whatnot. God bless those men.
Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (P9m8O)
------
Just watched it. Amazing job.

Posted by: Weasel at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM

Agreed. There was a guy highlighted on FOX. I apologize that I can't remember his name. But it was something I never put much thought into for some reason. The guy was a graves registration unit leader. Him and 15 other guys processed something like 1,000 bodies in the first day after alone. What a shit job, and I can't imagine the stuff they saw. But, no man left behind. God bless them.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (P9m8O)

60 "Allow us to make the conservative case for invading and occupying countries of no immediate strategic interest of America..." -NRO

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (32YRo)

61 Tariffs have never been used by real 'Merican Presidents until Drumpf came along.

Oh, btw, you're acting entitled if you think that you should be able to exercise your free speech rights on this thing that tax dollars (and eminent domain) were used to build called Teh Interwebs...

https://tinyurl.com/y4yqmzgz

Posted by: French Davidians at June 06, 2019 06:49 PM (Ta69/)

62 That Mexico has stepped on their dick is just a bonus. Some Senator of a Mexican state (probably cartel bought and paid for) has claimed Mexico should take the American States back.

That guy should do stand up. Mexicans can't even construct toilets properly.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:49 PM (YqDXo)

63 But his tariffs are going to start WAR!!!

Posted by: RKae at June 06, 2019 06:49 PM (hEma3)

64 Tax the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Doing nothing also has unintended consequences.

Posted by: klaftern at June 06, 2019 06:49 PM (RuIsu)

65 I get Cornyn is concerned about trade, but we are out of non-violent options to stop the madness at the border.

Cornyn is as American as an anchor baby.

He should have to file as a foreign representative given how much he hates America and favors the interests of foreigners.

He will be the reason why Texas turns blue in 2020.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (lD3vL)

66 It's a tariff.

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (EgshT)

67 @49 you haven't gotten the lecture yet?

Posted by: blaster at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (ZfRYq)

68 I'm not even convinced, as a matter of economics, that tariffs are that bad of a deal for us.

Tariffs tend to look bad economically if you assume both players are playing on equal, level playing fields and that the trade between the country is about even.

But China effectively locks US companies out of China (they can only enter as a joint venture with a Chinese company), imposes higher taxes, lower / different regulatory burdens, and we impose very few barriers for China and their state owned / subsidized at times companies to sell their shit to our much bigger and wealthier middle class at the expense of our lower class, who used to sell shit to our middle class.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (GBteo)

69 That guy should do stand up. Mexicans can't even construct toilets properly.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

The two footprints aren't properly aligned?

Posted by: Miklos, better than nothing I guess at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (QzkSJ)

70 It's gone from "Mexico will pay for the wall," to "Mexico will be the wall."

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (JcXHH)

And if not, it'll be "What's a Mexico?"

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:51 PM (YqDXo)

71 Watch for the next Dem president to try and tariff Israel to death... :-P

Posted by: qdpsteve at June 06, 2019 06:51 PM (miE9U)

72 But tariffs are just taxes on American citizens and have no effect whatsoever on the country the tariff is placed on!

Posted by: blaster at June 06, 2019 06:42 PM (ZfRYq)

Lol wut?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 06:46 PM

Imagine the sarc tag. It's easy if you try...

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 06:51 PM (OF95o)

73 I love the way that Mexico has suddenly brought the night stick down on the human fuck piles' heads that are engineering this whole migration disaster - but CNN still wonders why...

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 06:52 PM (32YRo)

74 Libertarians hate tarrifs because of markets, but I have to hear one talk about what they do actually accomplish.

Like counteract 5he effects of dumping for one

Posted by: Kindltot at June 06, 2019 06:52 PM (/8EBC)

75 55 The avocado gambit is complete socialist democrat propaganda. Plus the cartels are big in the avocado market from Mexico. More payoffs from the Mexican criminals to the socialist democrats and the media but I repeat myself.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:48 PM (pw+jk)

Apparently "Avocado Toast" is kind of a massive meme in Texas because there was a Dallas Radio host, Russ Martin, who absolutely hated it, and his co-hosts just wouldn't stop bringing it up over and over again.

Posted by: Hikaru at June 06, 2019 06:52 PM (pgXNG)

76 69 That guy should do stand up. Mexicans can't even construct toilets properly.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

The two footprints aren't properly aligned?
Posted by: Miklos, better than nothing I guess at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (QzkSJ)

They use 2" sewer pipes that clog when toilet paper is flushed. So they use receptacles for used toilet paper. God forbid they use 4" sewer pipes.

They use receptacles for used toilet paper in Mexico. In California, they use the restroom floor for that.

But all cultures, etc. etc.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (YqDXo)

77 Tarrifs ? BFD. *Yawn*

Posted by: Dow Jones at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (nzKWW)

78 Many years ago, when I was (briefly) a GOP precinct chairman in a liberal town, one of my precinct workers was a Dutch-born lady who had somehow survived serving in the Dutch Resistance during WWII. Tough as nails, but still a lady. The Dutch Resistance was the most deeply penetrated network in Europe (see "Soldier of Orange" for a taste).

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (Pqytn)

79 I love the way that Mexico has suddenly brought the night stick down on the human fuck piles' heads

Jose Ramos hardest hit?

Posted by: Miklos, what a pleasant thought at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (QzkSJ)

80 That guy should do stand up. Mexicans can't even construct toilets properly.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

----

Every couple of years, my church sends the youth group down to Mexico to help build houses.

They come back with the same stories: "We were in a village with no plumbing! There's just an open ditch of filth running down the side of the street!"

And, every time, I ask the same thing: Will it ever change?

Why is it we're discussing cars that drive themselves and putting nanobot drones in our bloodstream... and they still don't have clean water or a sewer system?

Of course, it's "hateful" to notice things like that.

Posted by: RKae at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (hEma3)

81 Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM

So many people put everything on the line. It is a testament to the human spirit!

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:54 PM (P9m8O)

82 There's a new tariff in town.

Posted by: jsg at June 06, 2019 06:54 PM (KvBLY)

83 It's gone from "Mexico will pay for the wall," to "Mexico will be the wall."

Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 06, 2019 06:43 PM (JcXHH)

And if not, it'll be "What's a Mexico?"
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:51 PM (YqDXo)

We changing nombre de Mejico to the de facto nombre de Cartel Land. Like Disney Land, just mas unpredictable.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 06:55 PM (m79Dg)

84 The fact remains that we have had a seriously negative trade imbalance with China since the late 1970s. Canada is next followed by Mexico.

The American consumer is propping up the economies of three separate Countries.

That has to be addressed.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 06, 2019 06:55 PM (JUOKG)

85

I've heard reports that Mexico and the Admin are trying to come to some agreement along the lines of a "Safe Third Country" policy where we send back any Central Americans crossing Mexico border and Mexico in Turn Sends back any Hondurans crossing the Guatemala border. I hope that sticks, as it is a long term solution while sending troops to Guatemala border may dissolve over time.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (Xqo6t)

86 Tariffs do no harm to the US consumer UNLESS they buy their stuff from the country trying to screw us.

This was my argument to Harley Davidson when they complained they would be hurt by the tariff.

And I said; "Don't buy shit from people trying to screw the US". Easy peasy.

Don't buy their steel or aluminum or parts or what have you.

Thing is though this supposed American Company isn't and is making a profit off of Americans losing their jobs.

Just like Mitt did or does I guess.

It's not that complicated.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (sc+Xh)

87 They use 2" sewer pipes that clog when toilet paper
is flushed. So they use receptacles for used toilet paper. God forbid
they use 4" sewer pipes.

They use receptacles for used toilet paper in Mexico. In California, they use the restroom floor for that.

But all cultures, etc. etc.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM

Dear Greece,

Try larger pipes. Kthx.

- A tourist who hates that little "diaper pail" in all the bathrooms.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (OF95o)

88 They use receptacles for used toilet paper in Mexico. In California, they use the restroom floor for that.

But all cultures, etc. etc.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (YqDXo)

====
I was at a camp ground when a bunch of Mexicans came for a revival. The bathrooms were a foot thick with used TP. My good conservative friend says "Hey it's their culture." To which I tore him a new asshole saying they are in the USA. LEARN to use the fucking toilet and not make someone else clean up. He sheepishly skulked away. Later said he was sorry.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (pw+jk)

89 And, every time, I ask the same thing: Will it ever change?
Posted by: RKae at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (hEma3)

There's a reason why the Third World is the Third World. And it's nothing to do with the geography.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (YqDXo)

90 There's not even a libertarian argument against what Trump is doing with tariffs.

What Trump is basically doing is demanding free trade. So if China doesn't open up their markets to us, we won't open our markets to them.

The new "smart set"position from the media is America needs to let other countries have lopsided and unfair trade agreements with us because "globalism" and "colonialism".

I also love now how much left-wingers care about the stock market and corporate profits.

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (6RfEx)

91 Jose Ramos hardest hit?

Posted by: Miklos

There isn't a hard enough stick to bring down on that tin-horn-dictator-loving clown fucks' head as far as I am concerned - he needs to cool his heels in some third world crap hangar dungeon as the guest of incessant his butt-licking head of some South American shit hole.

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 06:57 PM (32YRo)

92 Mexico has interfered in our elections so much more than Russia, and a big part of that is amount of votes put in by Mexicans

Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 06:57 PM (BbGew)

93 The Carrot: Access to the US market.The Stick: Tariffs.

Sounds like a good way of conducting diplomacy.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Summer Savings on Nitwits, Dimwits, Lackwits, and Halfwits! at June 06, 2019 06:57 PM (7K0oX)

94 Just remember SaDICK Khan was the lost Hijacker on 9/11 layer too

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (BqBId)

95 85

I've heard reports that Mexico and the Admin are trying to come to some agreement along the lines of a "Safe Third Country" policy where we send back any Central Americans crossing Mexico border and Mexico in Turn Sends back any Hondurans crossing the Guatemala border. I hope that sticks, as it is a long term solution while sending troops to Guatemala border may dissolve over time.
Posted by: Serious Cat at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (Xqo6t)

Send them to Cuba.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (zBaqJ)

96 There's a new tariff in town.

Posted by: jsg at June 06, 2019 06:54 PM

The new tariff is a {BONNNGGGGG!!!!!}

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (OF95o)

97 My good conservative friend says "Hey it's their culture." To which I tore him a new asshole saying they are in the USA.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (pw+jk)

I think I see the problem.

And I don't give a rat's ass about their culture.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (YqDXo)

98 Is that a training brassiere you're wearing? I'll bet your young breasts are perky and firm.

Posted by: Uncle Touchy at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (LuPts)

99 #48 The guy who pushed Lowry is Warriors' minority owner, Mark Stevens, who the NBA has banned from attending games for a year, and fined $500Gs for "pushing and directing obscene language towards" Lowry during the incident.

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 06:59 PM (Dh1wo)

100 Layer= LAWYER

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 06:59 PM (BqBId)

101 Dear Greece,

Try larger pipes. Kthx.

------------

The Paolo, he is doing his best

Posted by: The Paolo at June 06, 2019 06:59 PM (Izzlo)

102 Libertarians hate tarrifs because of markets, but I have to hear one talk about what they do actually accomplish.

I thought it was a Statement of Faith for a Libertarian to push the "Fair Tax" which is basically an economy destroying mechanism where the government has intimate details on the exact price of every single purchase that you make.

Tariffs is that same beloved sales tax - only on foreign made goods.

Since they whine about that, clearly Libertarians hate America since they would only want US products to be taxed.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 06:59 PM (lD3vL)

103 I also love now how much left-wingers care about the stock market and corporate profits.

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (6RfEx)

============================
Because how the Elite and their political worker bees game the financial markets establishes their merit and thus their legitimate argument for the privilege of ruling the rest of us.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (Pqytn)

104 73 I love the way that Mexico has suddenly brought the night stick down on the human fuck piles' heads that are engineering this whole migration disaster - but CNN still wonders why...

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 06:52 PM (32YRo)

I saw some footage of a Mexican cop shoving some people around.

What I didn't see, but would really like to see, is a Mexican cop lowering a truncheon on a white shitlib head...you know, the people from here who went down there to organize this shit. Those are the people who should be disappearing into the desert.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (4ErVI)

105 The new tariff is a {BONNNGGGGG!!!!!}

Posted by: RedMindBlueState

"I shot the Tariff!" - GOPe

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (32YRo)

106 There's a reason why the Third World is the Third World. And it's nothing to do with the geography.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (YqDXo)

Are you saying it's....genetic? That's racist! Accurate, but still....

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (m79Dg)

107 Free trade /=/ bend the American worker over and have your way with him... except to our betters.

They might be surprised that the American worker might come a calling with pineapples, barbed wire, and very hot sauce.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (pw+jk)

108 The cruise ship staff is going to whine about whatever they're told to whine about, or whatever Trump does, or both.

He could come out with a push to ban tariffs tomorrow and they'd scream about it.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (67XdO)

109 I also love now how much left-wingers care about the stock market and corporate profits.
Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (6RfEx)

Is there nothing Trump can't do?

He is a master at psychic ju-jitsu. At this rate the Democrat Party is going to want to cut welfare and other entitlements to address the national debt.

I'm just hoping Trump comes out in favor of the DH rule, so the Democrats will fight to get rid of it.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (YqDXo)

110 I would honestly "give away the store" to just have Mexico solve our immigration problem.

Like lopsided trade agreements as long as they keep the illegals in check. Even if it cost American jobs and factories outsourced more.

Would be pennies on the dollar to keep a million illegals out every year.

Far and away the biggest threat to the US is immigration. If Trump can't cut a deal, I say just put troops on the border.

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:01 PM (6RfEx)

111 "I shot the Tariff!" - GOPe

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM

But you didn't shoot the Assistant Deputy Secretary of Commerce?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 07:01 PM (OF95o)

112 Send them to Cuba.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 06, 2019 06:58 PM (zBaqJ)

Just say they're tourists. Give each of them a dollar to spend there.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (4ErVI)

113 LASue: "I get Cornyn is concerned about trade, but we are out of non-violent options to stop the madness at the border."

The only ledger he and his ilk concern themselves with is the temporary flux in product pricing as the market adjusts to the direct imbalance. They never - NEVER - incorporate the costs associated with illegal immigration/excess immigration (some of which are incalculable) taxpayers have to pay for security, health, welfare, sovereignty, law, culture etc. which are permanent and make those tariffs trivial.

They use and abuse economics to con people who are even less versed in the field than they are themselves.

Posted by: AnonyBotymousDrivel at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (6eEQ+)

114 I thought the Left loved taxes. What are tariffs but taxes?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (oVJmc)

115 There's not even a libertarian argument against what Trump is doing with tariffs.

What Trump is basically doing is demanding free trade. So if China doesn't open up their markets to us, we won't open our markets to them.

The new "smart set"position from the media is America needs to let other countries have lopsided and unfair trade agreements with us because "globalism" and "colonialism".

I also love now how much left-wingers care about the stock market and corporate profits.
Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 06:56 PM (6RfEx)

I'd say I'm broadly libertarianish, and the argument is that economically speaking, the US government is distorting effective markets by throwing up big taxes in the middle of the free flow of trade, which encourages all kind of economic waste and inefficiencies.

Which would be completely 100% true if both the US and China were bastions of free trade with low taxes, similar markets and laws, similar / low regulations, etc.

Which we aren't.

So like... in theory, yeah, tariffs are economically inefficient.

But I could make that same argument against regulations, taxes, welfare, agricultural and other subsidies, etc.

But no one seems to be making those arguments. I don't know why the left and "smart conservatives" thing a tariff is any different than say, a tax on income in it's effects on market distortions.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (GBteo)

116 If Trump has his way, we'll be shopping at the $5 Tree! Rheeeee!

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (Pqytn)

117 Spreading measles and disposable diapers to keep a culture alive in a foreign land. No me lo agradezcas, es un placer mio, yanqui.

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (qBNEP)

118 Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (m79Dg)

People say it's cultural. Maybe, but where did the culture come from? Did they just win their culture in the Publishers' Clearinghouse? They opened an envelope and said, "Oh shit, we've received a lousy backward culture. Oh well."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (YqDXo)

119 116 If Trump has his way, we'll be shopping at the $5 Tree! Rheeeee!

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (Pqytn)

LMAO.

Posted by: IC at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (a0IVu)

120 106 Are you saying it's....genetic? That's racist! Accurate, but still....
Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 07:00 PM (m79Dg)

*sigh*

Every time this comes up, it just sounds like non-white/non-asians are being told to go back to the plantation if they aren't exceptional.

Posted by: Hikaru at June 06, 2019 07:03 PM (pgXNG)

121 68 I'm not even convinced, as a matter of economics, that tariffs are that bad of a deal for us.

Tariffs tend to look bad economically if you assume both players are playing on equal, level playing fields and that the trade between the country is about even.

But China effectively locks US companies out of China (they can only enter as a joint venture with a Chinese company), imposes higher taxes, lower / different regulatory burdens, and we impose very few barriers for China and their state owned / subsidized at times companies to sell their shit to our much bigger and wealthier middle class at the expense of our lower class, who used to sell shit to our middle class.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 06:50 PM (GBteo)

Believe it or not, once the argument was between low "revenue maximizing" tariffs and high "protective" ones. It's like they understood economics better than we do now. Oh, wait....

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 06, 2019 07:03 PM (ujg0T)

122 The conservative case for letting Huawei do whatever they want

by Ben Shapiro

cuz muh private spies

Posted by: James OBrien MD at June 06, 2019 07:03 PM (Nc1T8)

123 OF COURSE the elites are angry about this attempt to stem the tide of illegals. THEY WANT THE ILLEGALS and have been stonewalling it for decades. The broken system they produced is WHAT THEY WANT.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:03 PM (oVJmc)

124 But you didn't shoot the Assistant Deputy Secretary of Commerce?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState

That's 'cause they saw Tariff Jose' Mexico coming to shoot them down - so they shot it down...

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:04 PM (32YRo)

125 I thought the Left loved taxes. What are tariffs but taxes?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (oVJmc)

======
SHUT. UP!!!

Posted by: The LEFT at June 06, 2019 07:04 PM (pw+jk)

126 Sorry I know this is so last thread. But Trump
knocked it out of the park. I don't think I would have been able to get
through that speech, because you know, allergies, dust and whatnot. God
bless those men.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 06:40 PM (P9m8O)

The wife can't even talk to one of those old vets without losing it.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at June 06, 2019 07:04 PM (9Om/r)

127
"I shot the Tariff!" - GOPe

But I did not shoot the subsidy.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 06, 2019 07:05 PM (aKsyK)

128 I thought it was a Statement of Faith for a Libertarian to push the "Fair Tax" which is basically an economy destroying mechanism where the government has intimate details on the exact price of every single purchase that you make.

Tariffs is that same beloved sales tax - only on foreign made goods.

Since they whine about that, clearly Libertarians hate America since they would only want US products to be taxed.
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 06:59 PM (lD3vL)

Well, in theory, a federal sales tax is less market distorting (and way less personally intrusive) than our federal income tax system.

In practice... I don't think you could realistically get a sales tax high enough to be revenue neutral and not have a massive grey market that tries to get around it.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (GBteo)

129 Very few ppl here are watching the show Gentleman Jack, I'm sure, but there is a subplot in it that reminds me of Trump's tariffs.

The victorian landowner/protagonist Anne Lister returns home and finds out that the coal beds on her land are valuable and should be developed. An evil man of importance in town has been stealing her coal and pocketing the profits. Instead of outright accusing him of theft in public, she comes to him with a proposition to allow him to develop those beds for an outrageously inflated price. That deal would allow her to be recompensed for the coal, and save face for both of them.

In a similar fashion, we know China has been stealing from us. Tariffs are a way that, short of outright war, allow us to recompense some of our losses and let both parties save face. It is a savvy move.

So of course both the left and the GOPe hate it.

Posted by: LizLem at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (hvf9s)

130 Alex Salvi @alexsalvinews
#NEW on @OANN: House Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal on Pres. Trump's pending tariffs on Mexico: "If the President does declare a national emergency and attempt to put these tariffs into place, I will introduce a resolution of disapproval to stop his overreach.'

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (BqBId)

131 It's pretty clear that the main purpose of globalism is to "equalize" the various regions of the world. This can only be done by weakening the First World, especially the United States. Free trade and open borders are tools designed to de-industrialize the US, and lower our standard of living.

Posted by: rickl at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (sdi6R)

132 Whaddaya know-

WAPO-

"Faced with Trump’s threat to impose escalating tariffs on Mexican goods beginning Monday, Mexican officials have pledged to deploy up to 6,000 National Guard troops to the country’s border region with Guatemala"

Posted by: Miklos, funny how things happen at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (QzkSJ)

133 The wife can't even talk to one of those old vets without losing it.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads

I know they were the greatest generation - they just don't whine about the job they had to do - and that's the what they have that is not shared with a lot of other war vets - hardships though they've all seen...

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:07 PM (32YRo)

134 years ago, when I was (briefly) a GOP precinct chairman in a liberal town, one of my precinct workers was a Dutch-born lady who had somehow survived serving in the Dutch Resistance during WWII. Tough as nails, but still a lady. The Dutch Resistance was the most deeply penetrated network in Europe (see "Soldier of Orange" for a taste).
Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 06:53 PM (Pqytn)

Also THE RESISTANCE BANKER
and RIPHAGEN, which is heartbreaking because he is such a scum bag, "Helping" the Jews by taking their money to hide them then he turns them in.

Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at June 06, 2019 07:07 PM (dKiJG)

135 No no no, the measles outbreak has nothing to do with thousands of people coming in from shitholes. Turns out it a couple of anti vaxers in NYC and one other in LA. Nothing to worry about.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 06, 2019 07:07 PM (gC2IV)

136
I'd say I'm broadly libertarianish, and the argument is that economically speaking, the US government is distorting effective markets by throwing up big taxes in the middle of the free flow of trade, which encourages all kind of economic waste and inefficiencies.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes

___________

The same arguments for free trade are there for open borders. It distorts labor markets, etc.

I guess I hold the "controversial" position there should be some economic incentive for manufacturing in the US as opposed to going offshore. Some sort of import tax is as American as apple pie. This country was built on tariffs.

A 5% tax (about half the average state sales tax) for you to import goods from Mexico sounds awfully trivial.

I care more about the American worker and our domestic economy than I do "price efficiency"

I'll gladly pay an extra nickel for guacamole if I think it will mean more jobs in the US.

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:07 PM (6RfEx)

137 Believe it or not, once the argument was between low "revenue maximizing" tariffs and high "protective" ones. It's like they understood economics better than we do now. Oh, wait....
Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 06, 2019 07:03 PM (ujg0T)

Right. Historically, in the US, the battle was between industry (who wanted high tariffs on foreign goods for obvious reasons) and farmers (who wanted low, revenue maximizing tariffs on both sides of the deal because they wanted to be able to export their crops, and crops are super fungible.)

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:08 PM (GBteo)

138 One of my regular customers was a USN crewman serving on landing craft in the Med and the ETO during WWII. He was at Normandy.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:08 PM (Pqytn)

139 In practice... I don't think you could realistically get a sales tax high enough to be revenue neutral and not have a massive grey market that tries to get around it.

It is the perfect anti-American tax.

Foreigners come to the US, work, save and pay little to no tax. Then they return to their home country with the untaxed earned money while Americans have to pay the tax unless they expatriate - taking their retirement savings with them.

Lets say that on Jan 1, 2020 the Fair Tax were to be deployed, why not buy as much crap on credit before that date and pay off the debt on untaxed income?

I would think that would be catastrophic mangling of the market and astronomic debt, while sales people starve for months after the feast in December.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:09 PM (lD3vL)

140 Flynn; 302,

FLYNN explained that other meetings between the TRUMP team and various foreign countries took place prior to the inauguration, and were sensitive inasmuch as many countries did not want the then-current administration to know about them.

Posted by: Braenyard at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (ir75J)

141 The thing about tariffs is this: the basis of all human relationships, from foreign policy to marriages, is reciprocity.

When one party consistently takes advantage of the other, the relationship is metastable at best.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (YqDXo)

142 If Trump came out tomorrow and said he wanted all taxes raised 25% the Democrats would scream they should be lower not higher.

Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (BbGew)

143
#NEW on @OANN: House Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal on Pres. Trump's pending tariffs on Mexico: "If the President does declare a national emergency and attempt to put these tariffs into place, I will introduce a resolution of disapproval to stop his overreach.'

lolgf

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (TAmPV)

144 131 It's pretty clear that the main purpose of globalism is to "equalize" the various regions of the world. This can only be done by weakening the First World, especially the United States. Free trade and open borders are tools designed to de-industrialize the US, and lower our standard of living.
Posted by: rickl at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM (sdi6R)

Right. Open borders and "free trade" (as used in our ridiculously named "free trade agreements," not actual free trade) are designed to redistribute wealth from the first world to the rest of the world.

Of course, like all socialism, it never works out as anticipated.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (GBteo)

145 Under certain circumstances "Free Trade" is a way to outsource slavery without having to be honest about it.

Posted by: jc at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (PuMKG)

146 Can I make an obvious interjection here?

"Trump says tariffs on China could be raised by another $300 billion if necessary."

That is NOT what is fucking happening. He would raise tariffs on $300 billion worth of GOODS. Tariffs are like 5%, so the additional cost is about $15 billion.

The press always reports the amount of goods that the tariff applies to as if that is the actual tariff - the money the U.S. is charging. I don't think this is accidental. They want it too look like a huge number.

NOW, this tariff hurts because profit on the goods is about 10%, so yeah, you're gonna lose half your profit. or you have to raise prices 5%. So it sucks.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:12 PM (VPvxh)

147 Tariffs are Taxes, but ones I ONLY pay if I buy foreign objects.

I can live with that. Its less insidious than taxing my LABOR, which makes me a peasant.

Except Peasants only gave ONE day per weeks labor to their lord, a lot of us give more.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:12 PM (NgKpN)

148
I'd say I'm broadly libertarianish, and the argument is that economically speaking, the US government is distorting effective markets by throwing up big taxes in the middle of the free flow of trade, which encourages all kind of economic waste and inefficiencies.

=====

As far as I know, Trump's tariffs aren't strictly economic. They're also meant to make China change its behavior in matters like IP theft and spying. Just like smacking a kid in the butt isn't meant to improve the kid's anatomy or yours; it's meant to change the kid's behavior.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (M9ntN)

149 That's 'cause they saw Tariff Jose' Mexico coming to shoot them down - so they shot it down...

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:04 PM

Ahh. *nods sagely*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (OF95o)

150 The same arguments for free trade are there for open borders. It distorts labor markets, etc.

And the socialism. The American worker is taxed to pay for all of the myriad of social services freely delivered to those who could not afford these services even if taxed.

So the purchasing power of the American worker is destroyed. Lose it in lower wages, Lose it higher taxes, Lose it in loss of liberty, culture, language, history, and standard of living.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (lD3vL)

151 True Peace and Prosperity will rule the land when, on some glorious day, the ethanol subsidy is repealed.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (Pqytn)

152 "I shot the Tariff!" - GOPe

But I did not shoot the subsidy.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 06, 2019 07:05 PM

I like this one better. *golf clap*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (OF95o)

153 Lets say that on Jan 1, 2020 the Fair Tax were to be deployed, why not buy as much crap on credit before that date and pay off the debt on untaxed income?

I would think that would be catastrophic mangling of the market and astronomic debt, while sales people starve for months after the feast in December.
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:09 PM (lD3vL)

All taxes distort markets, but an equal tax on all purchases does so less than a than an unequal tax on income.

It also creates an incentive to save instead of spend, which in the long term, is much better for an economy (although, as you say, in the short term would be problematic.) And income tax creates a disincentive to work, while a sales tax creates a disincentive to spend.

So the argument is that working and saving is more important than accumulating a lot of material stuff.

I'm not sure how any of that is anti- american.

But yes, all taxes distort markets.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (GBteo)

154 The press always reports the amount of goods that the tariff applies to as if that is the actual tariff - the money the U.S. is charging. I don't think this is accidental. They want it too look like a huge number.

NOW, this tariff hurts because profit on the goods is about 10%, so yeah, you're gonna lose half your profit. or you have to raise prices 5%. So it sucks.
Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:12 PM (VPvxh)

Yup, when Trump announced the last round of Tariffs, the market lost over 100 Billion in a temper tantrum, over $9 Billion in collected new tariff tax.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:14 PM (NgKpN)

155 142 If Trump came out tomorrow and said he wanted all taxes raised 25% the Democrats would scream they should be lower not higher.
Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (BbGew)

Trump should announce he wants to impose a 25% surcharge on economic activity, but be a bit ambiguous about what he means. Then if the Democrats cheer, he can say he was talking about tariffs, not taxes.

And conversely, he's going to cut the surcharge. Democrats cheer, and he says he was referring to taxes, not tariffs.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:14 PM (YqDXo)

156 It's time conservatives realize that continuing to support Big Business is the equivalent of the sybarite left allying with Islamism.

For a while business seemed to be on the side of conservatives, then they at least took a neutral stand in the culture wars. But now that corporations are an active participant on the side of the left, for conservatives to continue helping business is suicidal.

Why strengthen your foes? Let business appeal to their leftist allies for legislative assistance in the future.

Posted by: Cato at June 06, 2019 07:14 PM (gwzGM)

157 Mushrooms are really, really fungible!

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (Dh1wo)

158 When one party consistently takes advantage of the other, the relationship is metastable at best.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

I always thought that Tucker Carlson had a pretty good argument here - that those TrueCons that opposed tariffs could careless what sacrifice in blood and treasure is needed to occupy some god-forsaken Ozymandous ruled wasteland but crimp the style of the better business bureau - the horror..the horror

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (32YRo)

159 As far as I know, Trump's tariffs aren't strictly economic. They're also meant to make China change its behavior in matters like IP theft and spying.

The Mexican tariffs are also about China since all the Chinese tariffs do is bring the same products in to the US, only through different ports and benefiting a different stevedore union.

Tariffs on Chinese products only mean Taiwan, Vietnam and Mexico are made intermediaries.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (lD3vL)

160 They're becoming the new Clintons....

@chuckwoolery

They Just Won't Go Away: Obamas Sign Multi-Year Deal With Spotify to Produce Podcasts to 'Lift Up Diverse Voices'.

Posted by: Tami at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (cF8AT)

161 This could be something. Possibly 8 years of fraudulent federal and state taxes by the brotherfucker ?

https://tinyurl.com/y26ulvrk

Posted by: jsg at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (KvBLY)

162 I hear Congress critters, including gutless Repubes, whining about tariffs on Mexico. They quote some figure (how would they know?) on what it will cost the American people, as if they they cared. I notice they never mention how many billions we spend already on illegals. Or how much crime they bring in. Or how the Mexican border is a gateway to terrorists. You know, little matters of public safety and national security.

Posted by: JTB at June 06, 2019 07:16 PM (bmdz3)

163
I thought the Left loved taxes. What are tariffs but taxes?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:02 PM (oVJmc)

Only taxes that punish Americans. Taxes that are intended to help America are bad because America is the source of all earthly evil. The evil that isn't sourced by Israel, of course.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Outrage Outlet Summer Savings on Nitwits, Dimwits, Lackwits, and Halfwits! at June 06, 2019 07:16 PM (7K0oX)

164 The wife can't even talk to one of those old vets without losing it.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at June 06, 2019 07:04 PM

I wish I had talked with my Grandfather more or at least told him how proud I was. But he didn't like to talk about it like many don't. He flew 29's in the Pacific out of Saipan and Tinian. I found out after he passed from my Grandmother that his plane was shot down. They lost their tail gunner and I think he always blamed himself. They got picked up after a few days by a US Destroyer. He never spoke of it though. Bless them all.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (P9m8O)

165
House Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal on Pres. Trump's pending tariffs on Mexico: "If the President does declare a national emergency and attempt to put these tariffs into place, I will introduce a resolution of disapproval to stop his overreach.'
Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT

=====

LOL, the visual: Richard Neal launches Shield of Disapproval, erects it at Mexican border. Trump's tariffs come flying at it, and hit it -- and they bounce off!!!!

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (M9ntN)

166 Rudy Giuliani
@RudyGiuliani
I have no plan to cease personal representation of @realDonaldTrump. I was brought on to handle the Mueller investigation and I am still dealing with the possible crimes committed by the investigators. I'm here until Pres. doesn't need me or needs something else.

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (BqBId)

167 As far as I know, Trump's tariffs aren't strictly economic. They're also meant to make China change its behavior in matters like IP theft and spying. Just like smacking a kid in the butt isn't meant to improve the kid's anatomy or yours; it's meant to change the kid's behavior.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at June 06, 2019 07:13 PM (M9ntN)

No, he's using them as a political negotiating tool.

Which is fine.

Historically, we just tariffs to keep out British manufactured goods to encourage our own domestic economy.

We also have historically used tariffs as Trump is using them -- as an economic weapon.

The thing is, prices probably won't even go up for Americans at the cash register. Most of the stuff China exports to us is incredibly fungible. They know that. Americans don't care if their socks are made in China or Vietnam. If Vietnam has cheaper labor or lower tariffs, their socks are cheaper, and Walmart will source them from wherever they can get them cheapest.

So like... other than a few specialty things, China has way more to lose then the US economy or consumer does.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (GBteo)

168 When all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

Whenever I make the free trade argument against tariffs there's a contingent here who says oh but protecting steel is strategic.

Yeah, and Trump says he'll use Mexico tariffs to fund the wall. And now he'll use tariffs to make Mexico stop migration. And he'll use tariffs to address the trade imbalance with China. And tariffs to keep Huwei from spying on us.

The Trump tariff defenders always say he's using them tactically to achieve ends and wants to get back to zero tariffs. But he often speaks of how much money his tariffs will bring in. He loves tariffs in and of themselves.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (fuK7c)

169 They Just Won't Go Away: Obamas Sign Multi-Year Deal With Spotify to Produce Podcasts to 'Lift Up Diverse Voices'.
Posted by: Tami at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (cF8AT)

First up.

That 8 YO drag queen wannabe.

Posted by: golfman at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (OE84+)

170 I prefer "One Tin Tariff" to "I Shot the Tariff" but then again I liked Billy Jack!

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (Dh1wo)

171 So the argument is that working and saving is more important than accumulating a lot of material stuff.

I'm not sure how any of that is anti- american.

Translation: All work and not being able to enjoy the fruits of that work

Translation of the Translation: Slavery.

Yeah, that would be antebellum America

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (lD3vL)

172 Some weeks ago heard there are hundreds of tariffs on various goods already in place, many for years.

Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (BbGew)

173 Yup, when Trump announced the last round of Tariffs, the market lost over 100 Billion in a temper tantrum, over $9 Billion in collected new tariff tax.
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:14 PM (NgKpN)

No, the market didn't. The DJIA closed today at 25,720, pretty much in the same area it's been bouncing around since February.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia

Look at the 6 month or one year timescale.

The NYSE fell out of bed for a couple days, but has since rebounded to essentially where it was before.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (YqDXo)

174
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (M9ntN)

====

Crud, I blew that. It was supposed to be Trump's *overreach* flies at it and bounces off.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (M9ntN)

175 Posted by: jsg at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM

The commie rag Red Startribune spun it as sof as they could for her. Nothing will come of it. She's got like the triple class protection thing working for her.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 07:19 PM (P9m8O)

176 Flynn; 302,

FLYNN explained that other meetings between the TRUMP team and various foreign countries took place prior to the inauguration, and were sensitive inasmuch as many countries did not want the then-current administration to know about them.

Posted by: Braenyard at June 06, 2019 07:10 PM (ir75J)

Cuz Obama would be jealous and retaliate against them in his own, special, hissy fit way?

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 07:19 PM (wMHPW)

177 The Mexican tariffs are also about China since all the Chinese tariffs do is bring the same products in to the US, only through different ports and benefiting a different stevedore union.

Tariffs on Chinese products only mean Taiwan, Vietnam and Mexico are made intermediaries.
Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (lD3vL)

Eh, I think most countries do a pretty good job of tracking and being honest about country of origins on products.

I suppose it's possible some Chinese goods ship out through Vietnam and are labeled as Vietnamese goods, but our customs people (and tax people) are usually pretty on top of that kind of stuff. I'm sure some stuff does slip through the cracks though.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:19 PM (GBteo)

178 @mollyfprince 4 minutes ago

NEW: @IlhanMN confirms that she will be joining the Black-Jewish caucus despite long history of anti-Semitism

Posted by: Tami at June 06, 2019 07:19 PM (cF8AT)

179 147 Tariffs are Taxes, but ones I ONLY pay if I buy foreign objects.

I can live with that. Its less insidious than taxing my LABOR, which makes me a peasant.

Except Peasants only gave ONE day per weeks labor to their lord, a lot of us give more.
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:12 PM (NgKpN)

Practically speaking, no. Foreign competition also creates price pressure on domestic goods.

Posted by: Someguy at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (mX8Vr)

180 Question - why does "free trade" have to be negotiated? We have free trade agreements between every state in the union. These agreements are basically, yeah, there is free trade - trade away, whatever you want. No one has a tariff on anything.

These trade "deals" take a long time to negotiate because both parties are looking to maximize their advantages - I'll reduce the tariff on mayonnaise, if you cut the tariff on steel. That is why they take a long time to negotiate, and when someone tears one up everyone gets pissed.

BUT these are not FREE trade. They are managed trade, managed to protect the elites of both countries. It takes forever to negotiate because both side shave to appease their moneyed interests.

What's fucking in it for me? Or you? They'll happily trade away YOUR job and YOUR money to protect their interests. Your life is just a chip in the poker game.

When Trump rails away at these unfair trade deals that is exactly what he is railing about - this cozy chip trading that isn't to everyone's benefit. We have traded away all sorts of things in the name of geopolitical prosperity, unity, friendship, and a night of drinking with the boys. You're kids college future? Who fucking cares about that?

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (VPvxh)

181 The Trump tariff defenders always say he's using them tactically to achieve ends and wants to get back to zero tariffs. But he often speaks of how much money his tariffs will bring in. He loves tariffs in and of themselves.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (fuK7c)

So did the Founding Fathers.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (NgKpN)

182 Historically, we just tariffs to keep out British manufactured goods to encourage our own domestic economy.

And the British simply laid a reciprocal tariff on agricultural goods. So north of the Mason Dixon, federal policy was a benefit paid for at the expense of those south of the Mason Dixon.

These are the children of the men who went to war over a simple tax on a beverage.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (lD3vL)

183 Alex Salvi @alexsalvinews

#NEW on @OANN: House Ways and Means Chair Richard Neal on Pres.
Trump's pending tariffs on Mexico: "If the President does declare a
national emergency and attempt to put these tariffs into place, I will
introduce a resolution of disapproval to stop his overreach.'

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 07:06 PM

---

Go ahead. Resolutions don't overturn established law. And Congress has abdicated it's control over tariffs to the Executive branch.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (JUOKG)

184 Why strengthen your foes? Let business appeal to their leftist allies for legislative assistance in the future.
Posted by: Cato

__________

Agreed, I have ZERO incentive to push for politically unpopular proposals that help big business.

From now on, I ONLY want to hear Republicans push economic policy that helps small business owners and individual taxpayers.

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (6RfEx)

185 "hear Congress critters, including gutless Repubes, whining about tariffs on Mexico"

That thwack you hear tonight is Mexico's night stick on the heads of the organizers of these migrant crowds - thanks, Trump, for showing these Mexican shit for brains where that stick was hanging in their basement....

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (32YRo)

186 The NYSE fell out of bed for a couple days, but has since rebounded to essentially where it was before.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:18 PM (YqDXo)

It's because the mainstream economic view (which I'm not sure is totally wrong, but I suspect may be) is that tariffs hurt both sides of the trade deal.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (GBteo)

187 And talking of who is against tariffs, the US CoC is trying to tell Ontario's conservative government of
Doug Ford what to do as well -- trying to protect the big international
breweries' government-granted monopoly on beer sales in the province...

The leftist-globalist view although with conservative replies:
https://twitter.com/LisaYaxiXing/status/
1136273897911963658

And the conservative view:
https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/
1136281909816954881

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (Dh1wo)

188 Podcasts to 'Lift Up Diverse Voices'.
Posted by: Tami at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (cF8AT)

Maybe they meant "Lift Up The Worst Voices."

Posted by: Pug Mahon at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (xPJvm)

189 This could be something. Possibly 8 years of fraudulent federal and state taxes by the brotherfucker ?

https://tinyurl.com/y26ulvrk
Posted by: jsg at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (KvBLY)

I believe that is indeed something.

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (wMHPW)

190 They Just Won't Go Away: Obamas Sign Multi-Year Deal With Spotify to Produce Podcasts to 'Lift Up Diverse Voices'.

Posted by: Tami at June 06, 2019 07:15 PM (cF8AT)

=======================
A subscribership measuring in the dozens, I'd assume. Right up there with Jim Wright's warehouse books and Hillary's number one bestselling tomes, like "Stronger Together". Remember that "hic", I mean "hit"?

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (Pqytn)

191 And the British simply laid a reciprocal tariff on agricultural goods. So north of the Mason Dixon, federal policy was a benefit paid for at the expense of those south of the Mason Dixon.

These are the children of the men who went to war over a simple tax on a beverage.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (lD3vL)

Correct, and it was a constant battle in DC between agriculture (not just in the south) and industry (not just in the north) over where tariffs should be set.

Some would argue that that battle is partially what led to the breakdown in relationships that culminated in the civil war.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (GBteo)

192 OT, so just saw some Florida woman stabbed herself, claiming it was because of Trump. Yes, she was mentally unstable but the knives probably were of Russian make and a collision charge will be looked into.

Posted by: morigu at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (Eu98u)

193 Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (VPvxh)

This is actually no longer correct.

Just tried to buy LIGHT BULBS here in California, and over half of the light bulbs I found online could not be shipped to this State.

Only certain performance car parts, are legal in California, although legal everywhere else.

And soon? Ammunition cannot be brought into the State without going through a Federally Licensed Gun Store.

We no longer even have free trade in the US.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (NgKpN)

194 Black-Jewish caucus??? I thought Sammy Davis Jr. was dead??

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (Dh1wo)

195 Trump should announce he wants to impose a 25% surcharge on economic activity, but be a bit ambiguous about what he means. Then if the Democrats cheer, he can say he was talking about tariffs, not taxes.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:14 PM (YqDXo)

Are you kidding? Trump could say he was pro-abortion, wants the New Green Deal, wants open borders, and was going to change his gender and the Demonicrats would suddenly be against those things because OrangeManBad.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 07:23 PM (m79Dg)

196 When Trump rails away at these unfair trade deals that is exactly what he is railing about - this cozy chip trading that isn't to everyone's benefit. We have traded away all sorts of things in the name of geopolitical prosperity, unity, friendship, and a night of drinking with the boys. You're kids college future? Who fucking cares about that?
Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (VPvxh)

Exactly right.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:23 PM (GBteo)

197 OT, but three and out. New Orleans lost Ronnie Virgets (local historian), Leah Chase (restaurateur) and Dr. John (jazz musician), all New Orleans icons, in the last week or so.

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (8nYF9)

198 http://bit.ly/2ZjjOBJ
*******
FOOL NELSON on Twitter: "Even BIGGER, the OIG report from last week appears to point to Strzok's cooperation. They're both singing.

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (BqBId)

199 191 And the British simply laid a reciprocal tariff on agricultural goods. So north of the Mason Dixon, federal policy was a benefit paid for at the expense of those south of the Mason Dixon.

These are the children of the men who went to war over a simple tax on a beverage.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (lD3vL)

Correct, and it was a constant battle in DC between agriculture (not just in the south) and industry (not just in the north) over where tariffs should be set.

Some would argue that that battle is partially what led to the breakdown in relationships that culminated in the civil war.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (GBteo)

And the South almost succeeded in 1840 over this very issue.

And YES, even though not of the 'popular' history, it was a major cause why many supported Southern Succession in 1860.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (NgKpN)

200 The Trump tariff defenders always say he's using them tactically to achieve ends and wants to get back to zero tariffs. But he often speaks of how much money his tariffs will bring in. He loves tariffs in and of themselves.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:17 PM (fuK7c)

He's jawboning, that's all. Leftists here are bleating about tariffs, which would encourage our economic adversaries to try to wait him out. He instead talks up how thrilled he is with tariffs, and all the money they will bring in, dashing their hopes.

It's a negotiating ploy, I suspect. "Hey, sticking it up your ass is kinda fun AND lucrative. We shoulda done this a long time ago!"

The target is now desperate to get him to rescind the tariff, and reluctantly has to consider playing ball to get that to happen.

It's Negotiation 101. The other side HAS to have some reason to negotiate in good faith. If they're perfectly happy with the present situation, then you need to make them unhappy to have any hope of negotiating with them successfully. Otherwise, they'll just fart you off.

See #14.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (YqDXo)

201
Correct, and it was a constant battle in DC between agriculture (not just in the south) and industry (not just in the north) over where tariffs should be set.

Some would argue that that battle is partially what led to the breakdown in relationships that culminated in the civil war.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM (GBteo)

Worth noting the South was cash crops and some subsistence farming. Food was imported from the North. Part of what contributed to the inability to supply itself for the South.

Posted by: Someguy at June 06, 2019 07:25 PM (mX8Vr)

202 I believe that is indeed something.

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 07:22 PM

Forget it, the BroFu is a protected class. Hillary with a Hijab.

Posted by: Minnfidel at June 06, 2019 07:25 PM (P9m8O)

203 Also THE RESISTANCE BANKER
and RIPHAGEN, which is heartbreaking because he is such a scum bag, "Helping" the Jews by taking their money to hide them then he turns them in.
Posted by: Patrick from Ohio at June 06, 2019 07:07 PM (dKiJG)

Soros's cousin?

Posted by: LASue at June 06, 2019 07:25 PM (wMHPW)

204 But, but, but,,,

David Cruz with the Com(munist)stock report says...

Posted by: shame on the moon at June 06, 2019 07:25 PM (A3w0Q)

205 If Trump was using tariffs purely as a weapon to make American made goods more competitive, that would be where I would take issue with it.

Like say an established ally like Japan, and Trump said he was going to jack up Japanese cars to a 25% tariff to make Americans buy more Big 3 products, that's when my pro-business side would take issue.

Trump is using tariffs as a weapon against countries like China and Mexico primarily because they are the two biggest problems for our country on a number of levels.

But at the end of the day, I think there should be an import tax (a low one) on every import.

If I buy something in my own state, I pay a sales tax. Shouldn't say China pay something similar when they import something?

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:26 PM (6RfEx)

206 Berserker Dragonheads, my sister in S.C. was at Partiot Point on the Yorktown for the remembrance today. She met some 95 year old vets, one of whom told her he went in on the second wave (after our Pappy Eromero), so sister sent me some pictures. I said 'you hugged their necks and cried didn't you?' Because I damn sure cried this morning when I saw those pictures. Pappy Eromero has been gone since August 2004, 60 years after the medics told him at ST. Lo on 22 JUN 1944 that he probably wouldn't make it back to the beach, much less live.

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:26 PM (qBNEP)

207 Are you kidding? Trump could say he was pro-abortion, wants the New Green Deal, wants open borders, and was going to change his gender and the Demonicrats would suddenly be against those things because OrangeManBad.
Posted by: Anonymous White Male at June 06, 2019 07:23 PM (m79Dg)

I was, kind of. The idea was to get the other side to agree or disagree with something on the principle involved BEFORE they find out the specifics. It's the old "one kid cuts the pie, the other chooses which piece he wants."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:26 PM (YqDXo)

208 Podcasts to 'Lift Up Diverse Voices'.

"Diverse", of course, means anyone but 'straight white male.'

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:27 PM (oVJmc)

209 Worth noting the South was cash crops and some subsistence farming. Food was imported from the North. Part of what contributed to the inability to supply itself for the South.
Posted by: Someguy at June 06, 2019 07:25 PM (mX8Vr)

Broadly, sure. But we also grew (and still do) a lot of tobacco, for example, in CT.

There are / were a lot of farms in New England in the mid atlantic that grew cash crops as well.

But yeah, the southern economy was broadly more agriculture based, while the northern was broadly more industrial.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:27 PM (GBteo)

210 It's Negotiation 101. The other side HAS to have some reason to negotiate in good faith. If they're perfectly happy with the present situation, then you need to make them unhappy to have any hope of negotiating with them successfully. Otherwise, they'll just fart you off.

See #14.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (YqDXo)

What most here don't understand is that the Mexican Tariff is not even really aimed at Mexico.

Its aimed at the US Congress.

They won't fix the Law, so Trump is FORCED into extreme actions. So when they complain? He just says 'Well, then fix the damn law'.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:27 PM (NgKpN)

211 "Say 'slavery'."
"Slavery it is!"
/the simpsons 20 years ago when it was still funny

Posted by: andycanuck at June 06, 2019 07:27 PM (Dh1wo)

212 And the South almost succeeded in 1840 over this very issue.

And YES, even though not of the 'popular' history, it was a major cause why many supported Southern Succession in 1860.
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:24 PM (NgKpN)

The South had political dominance for roughly a decade with the collapse of the Whigs.

Posted by: Someguy at June 06, 2019 07:28 PM (mX8Vr)

213 Fuck it, if people decide that it's time to re-segregate, I'm invoking the Reverse One Drop Rule.

Posted by: Hikaru at June 06, 2019 07:28 PM (pgXNG)

214 Like say an established ally like Japan, and Trump said he was going to jack up Japanese cars to a 25% tariff to make Americans buy more Big 3 products, that's when my pro-business side would take issue.

Trump is using tariffs as a weapon against countries like China and Mexico primarily because they are the two biggest problems for our country on a number of levels.

But at the end of the day, I think there should be an import tax (a low one) on every import.

If I buy something in my own state, I pay a sales tax. Shouldn't say China pay something similar when they import something?
Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:26 PM (6RfEx)

Yeaaah, except Japan, China, South Korea (and to a lesser extent the EU) all do that same shit to us.

You don't see too many American cars in Asia (or the EU) for a reason.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (GBteo)

215 Tariffs are good.

Now let's go after those that employee the ilegales.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (e+rs5)

216 Are you kidding? Trump could say he was pro-abortion, wants the New Green Deal, wants open borders, and was going to change his gender and the Demonicrats would suddenly be against those things because OrangeManBad.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male

My wife said the same thing about the bishes on the View- Trump believes in abortion, watch Whoopi suggest that every life is precious - Trump suggests that guns are evil and need to be confiscated, watch Joy Behar advocate for AK 47's for everyone - Trump says John McCain was the salt of the earth? Watch Meghan denounce her own father like a red diaper Moaist red book carrier denounce her dad as a communist traitor!

Posted by: Boswell at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (32YRo)

217 These fuckers are playing the world like it is a game of Monopoly. "I'll trade you Park Place for Atlantic avenue." Oh, and 1) we happen to live on Park Place and could never get into Atlantic Avenue and 2) they aren't especially good at playing the game.

They always win these types of games, or at least avoid losing.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (VPvxh)

218 Patriot Point, dangit!

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (qBNEP)

219 It's because the mainstream economic view (which I'm not sure is totally wrong, but I suspect may be) is that tariffs hurt both sides of the trade deal.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:21 PM (GBteo)

Of course. But notice that the market freaked on a Monday, and had largely recovered by the Friday. What changed in five days?

Interpreting the spasmodic jerking of the stock market is, IMO, a fool's errand. The market is more squirrelly than a 13 year old girl unexpectedly getting her first period.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (YqDXo)

220 Broadly, sure. But we also grew (and still do) a lot of tobacco, for example, in CT.

One of my favorite ironies is that this ultra-liberal state got rich on tobacco and guns.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (fuK7c)

221 These fuckers are playing the world like it is a
game of Monopoly. "I'll trade you Park Place for Atlantic avenue." Oh,
and 1) we happen to live on Park Place and could never get into
Atlantic Avenue and 2) they aren't especially good at playing the game.

They always win these types of games, or at least avoid losing.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (VPvxh)

===========================
Well, they write the rules. That's what campaign contributions and overseas bank accounts are for.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:31 PM (Pqytn)

222 One of my favorite ironies is that this ultra-liberal state got rich on tobacco and guns.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (fuK7c)

It's true.

Then came the big bad insurance companies and the military-industrial complex (Sikorsky, etc.)

There is some irony in that.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (GBteo)

223
Interpreting the spasmodic jerking of the stock market is, IMO, a fool's errand. The market is more squirrelly than a 13 year old girl unexpectedly getting her first period.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (YqDXo)

There is a large portion of the market that is built around Computer trading, and betting on whether its going up or down.

There is still mostly long term investment (401Ks and such) which is the BOTTOM the market will see, but there are some trading companies that just think of it as Vegas.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (NgKpN)

224 You don't see too many American cars in Asia (or the EU) for a reason.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:29 PM (GBteo)

The Europeons have a more clever approach re American agricultural products. They block GMO foods, ostensibly because they're the boogie man, but in fact to keep out American products and to protect the (much less efficient) Europeon farmers, who have powerful lobbies (especially in France).

But it's not a national thing. No. It's a health matter. Because GMO.

Oh. OK.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (YqDXo)

225 Pappy Eromero has been gone since August 2004, 60 years after the medics told him at ST. Lo on 22 JUN 1944 that he probably wouldn't make it back to the beach, much less live.
Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:26 PM (qBNEP)
-------

Your Pappy was a hero and a fighter all the way. You have every right to be proud of him. God bless him and his fellow fighters.

Posted by: bluebell at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (aXucN)

226 CNN right now treating the tariffs on Mexico as a deranged bit of hysteria, using "some critics" tropes.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (0C0Ri)

227 Bander -- i don't know if you've ever had the chance, but in the basement of the CT Supreme Court (IIRC) building there is a reaaalllly cool Colt museum.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:33 PM (GBteo)

228 Interpreting the spasmodic jerking of the stock
market is, IMO, a fool's errand. The market is more squirrelly than a 13
year old girl unexpectedly getting her first period.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (YqDXo)

I saw Spasmodic Jerking open for the Butthole Surfers at the Horse and Cow in San Diego in the 90's.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at June 06, 2019 07:33 PM (t6MX/)

229 The Europeons have a more clever approach re American agricultural products. They block GMO foods, ostensibly because they're the boogie man, but in fact to keep out American products and to protect the (much less efficient) Europeon farmers, who have powerful lobbies (especially in France).

But it's not a national thing. No. It's a health matter. Because GMO.

Oh. OK.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (YqDXo)

Right, and the Japanese keep out American cars by designing their safety, emissions, and taxes on engine size to specifically keep out American cars.

In the name of the environment and safety.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:34 PM (GBteo)

230 Yeaaah, except Japan, China, South Korea (and to a lesser extent the EU) all do that same shit to us.

You don't see too many American cars in Asia (or the EU) for a reason.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes

_________

And somehow Trump demanding a "fair" trading deal where they drop all their import taxes and regulations if we drop ours (what I was always taught was free trade) and suddenly asking for that is now wrong?

We're never going to get that until we put the shoe on the other foot.

Somehow conservatism got this idea that we just accept lopsided trading deals no matter what the terms because any short term turbulence is "un-conservative"

Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:34 PM (6RfEx)

231 There is a large portion of the market that is built around Computer trading, and betting on whether its going up or down.

There is still mostly long term investment (401Ks and such) which is the BOTTOM the market will see, but there are some trading companies that just think of it as Vegas.
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:32 PM (NgKpN)

Of course. That's why the market's day-to-day gyrations are basically noise (barring, e.g., declarations of war, etc.). The gyrations are driven by sentiment, and the expectation of what other people/ programs will do, and just doing it before them.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:34 PM (YqDXo)

232 75 years ago men stormed Omaha Beach to save civilization.

Today we can't pay a nickel more for a fucking Avocado?

I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds!

Posted by: Regular Dennis Reynolds at June 06, 2019 07:35 PM (6/uwW)

233 After reading through the Flynn 302, it is my very calm, rational opinion that Ex-Preznit Cock-Curious should be hung up by his balls for what he and his Cabal did to Flynn.

After a fair trial and sentencing phase, of course.

Posted by: Sharkman at June 06, 2019 07:35 PM (NoKAc)

234 226 CNN right now treating the tariffs on Mexico as a deranged bit of hysteria, using "some critics" tropes.
=================

You mean the same cnn that has 700k viewers at any given time?

Posted by: DXO at June 06, 2019 07:35 PM (nzKWW)

235 Of course. That's why the market's day-to-day gyrations are basically noise (barring, e.g., declarations of war, etc.). The gyrations are driven by sentiment, and the expectation of what other people/ programs will do, and just doing it before them.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:34 PM (YqDXo)

But it gives the Economic talking heads something to Scare people with... soooo....

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:36 PM (NgKpN)

236 Somehow conservatism got this idea that we just accept lopsided trading deals no matter what the terms because any short term turbulence is "un-conservative"
Posted by: Raven at June 06, 2019 07:34 PM (6RfEx)

My guess: it's a holdover from the post WWII era, when we went easy on our trading partners to help them rebuild their shattered economies. The Marshall Plan being the archetype of that attitude.

But now it's been over 70 years since the war, and their economies are as rebuilt as they're ever going to be. It's time for those countries to put on their big boy pants.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:37 PM (YqDXo)

237 "They're both singing."

Have known that for a fair amount of time ( a few months? ) now.

Came really late to a post a few days back and asked if anyone had brought up that possibility yet.
Came back later to read comments later and shor'enuff, RickB @33 or 38, round there.

Posted by: teej at June 06, 2019 07:37 PM (A3w0Q)

238 232 75 years ago men stormed Omaha Beach to save civilization.

Today we can't pay a nickel more for a fucking Avocado?

I am untethered and my rage knows no bounds!
Posted by: Regular Dennis Reynolds at June 06, 2019 07:35 PM (6/uwW)
------
Agree 100%. From the greatest generation to the most pathetic.

Posted by: Weasel at June 06, 2019 07:38 PM (MVjcR)

239 bluebell @ 225- Thank you m'lady. He was indeed a hell of a hombre, and certainly my hero. I miss him and Mama so much.

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:38 PM (qBNEP)

240 We must destroy the media. I don't see another option. We have no greater enemy. They're a 24/7 lying, slander and subversion machine.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at June 06, 2019 07:39 PM (H8QX8)

241 180
BUT these are not FREE trade. They are managed trade, managed to protect the elites of both countries. It takes forever to negotiate because both side shave to appease their moneyed interests.

What's fucking in it for me? Or you? They'll happily trade away YOUR job and YOUR money to protect their interests. Your life is just a chip in the poker game.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 07:20 PM (VPvxh)

Bingo. "Free Trade" as it exists today is designed to promote and protect corporate interests--you know, those people who consider themselves "citizens of the world" and have no loyalty to any nation-state.

America used to have a variety of manufacturing businesses in every city and town in the country. That is how we were able to win WWII: because we shifted that manufacturing to a wartime footing. None of our adversaries could compete with us.

I don't believe we could do that today, because all of those businesses, jobs, and skills are gone now. They didn't go away because of free market competition, but because "free trade" advocates enacted policies that deliberately destroyed them and sent them overseas to the benefit of multinational corporations.

Posted by: rickl at June 06, 2019 07:40 PM (sdi6R)

242 Detroit Free press Michigan

Bitme 51

Trump 41

In the run up to 2016 election, only the last poll taken, Trafalger (R), showed Trump with a lead . All the rest for the entire year had the old cow up, many by double digits

These cucks from the DFP had Cankles up by 10, 3 months before the election.

why doesn't anyone on the tube point this out ?

Posted by: REDACTED at June 06, 2019 07:40 PM (DPjeO)

243 But it gives the Economic talking heads something to Scare people with... soooo....
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:36 PM (NgKpN)

The media generally are a blight on the nation. Ninety-nine percent of our crises etc. are as manufactured as "shark summer," and for the same reason: to drive viewership/ readership.

Suppose a news outlet said, "No big news today. Everything's fine, and under control. Enjoy your lives."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:40 PM (YqDXo)

244 You mean the same cnn that has 700k viewers at any given time?

Posted by: DXO at June 06, 2019 07:35 PM (nzKWW)

========================================
Let's see ... if CNN is cablecasted to, say, 100 regional airports across the USA and the territories, and there are, say, 100 monitors in each airport, and, on average 70 people are within viewing/hearing range of each monitor, what are we looking at? Answer: AOSHQ and FOX.

Posted by: mrp at June 06, 2019 07:41 PM (Pqytn)

245 Granny Rictus McBotoximplants was fungible before her ladybits became a suburb of the Majave.

Posted by: Fritz at June 06, 2019 07:41 PM (LuPts)

246 I would be all on board with a 500% tariff on imports deemed to be plastic crap. Thinks like doodads stuck into prepackaged Easter eggs, intended to be toys, but sit on the floor until they are thrown away. I don't mind sending money to China if they are using their manufacturing to create something of value. But sending our fortunes to them for shit they won't even take back as recycling is stupid. Other countries are likely scrambling to pick up manufacturing contracts from US companies. More every day this trade war goes on.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 07:41 PM (dNzKv)

247 What's the Left going to do when Flynn walks?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 06, 2019 07:41 PM (oVJmc)

248 A sad day for the music world. Dr John has passed away. RIP

Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT at June 06, 2019 07:42 PM (BqBId)

249 I've read some analysis that proclaim that a trade imbalance is not always the worst thing, in fact the opposite.

The general gist of these analysts essentially posit that we trade worthless fiat currency representing computer blood and in return we receive tangible goods and resources like oil. In this way we are able to exploit the labor and resources of other countries and we simply exchange them for promissory notes that we can generate at will.

Thoughts?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 06, 2019 07:42 PM (gkD/j)

250 Bander -- i don't know if you've ever had the chance, but in the basement of the CT Supreme Court (IIRC) building there is a reaaalllly cool Colt museum.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:33 PM (GBteo)

I will check that out.

(On the phone with Mommy so out of the thread for a while).

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 06, 2019 07:43 PM (fuK7c)

251 Trump has been saying the same thing for decades. Other nations have been taking advantage of us. Whether you agree with his tactics or not, he's at least got our best interests at heart. Can't say the same for previous administrations, from '88 on.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 06, 2019 07:44 PM (gC2IV)

252 My guess: it's a holdover from the post WWII era, when we went easy on our trading partners to help them rebuild their shattered economies. The Marshall Plan being the archetype of that attitude.

But now it's been over 70 years since the war, and their economies are as rebuilt as they're ever going to be. It's time for those countries to put on their big boy pants.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:37 PM (YqDXo)

There was some of that. There is also the idea among our smart class that it's unfair that the US is only 2% of the world population, but has x% of the worlds wealth, etc. etc.,so it's a way to transfer money from the first world to the third world without being super obvious about it (because most people are economically illiterate.)

Like we get very little out of trading with China. We get to offshore some of our pollution, and maybe get slightly cheaper shit (MAYBE, because in the US capital is much cheaper than labor, so I think we could manufacture things almost as cheaply as they do in china with more automation then they us).

They get untold billions of USDs though, and we lose a bunch of jobs.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:44 PM (GBteo)

253 Of course. But notice that the market freaked on a Monday, and had largely recovered by the Friday. What changed in five days?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:30 PM (YqDXo)

What changed was the Fed Chairman's comments on Tuesday that any slowdown resulting from trade disputes would be met with actions appropriate to sustain the expansion (i.e. rate cuts). The market reacted instantly.

The markets do tend to overreact to news, both good and bad. One of the reasons is that the bulk of trading is done by mutual and pension funds, which are large enough to actually be "making" the market even as they react to it. Personally, I think a lot of volatility is also because of options trading, leveraged positions and short-selling, all of which are more akin to gambling than to "traditional" buy-and-hold investing.

Posted by: HTL at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (gVyJ+)

254 Thoughts?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 06, 2019 07:42 PM (gkD/j)

Sounds like a post hoc rationale for maintaining the status quo, whereas if it were a proposal for future action, I would expect a plan to reduce knock-on effects like gutting the middle class and our manufacturing capacity in exchange for cheap Chinese baubles.

Posted by: flounder, rebel, vulgarian, deplorable, winner at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (t6MX/)

255 The general gist of these analysts essentially posit that we trade worthless fiat currency representing computer blood and in return we receive tangible goods and resources like oil. In this way we are able to exploit the labor and resources of other countries and we simply exchange them for promissory notes that we can generate at will.

Thoughts?
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 06, 2019 07:42 PM (gkD/j)

The problem is that although it is 'Fiat' money, it still has value in the world.

Its how we keep score. And while we may devalue the dollar, its still the worlds primary currency.

So we are, in essence, exporting wealth.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (NgKpN)

256 But it's not a national thing. No. It's a health matter. Because GMO.

Oh. OK.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

it's much more than that.

Absurd rules about mycotoxins in grains or peanuts, for example.

Posted by: Miklos, knowing too much at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (QzkSJ)

257
By the way, Mexico is now getting ready to place troops on its southern border to keep America-bound migrants out. Wonder what that would look like.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia's phone at June 06, 2019 07:46 PM (Vhrbh)

258 The general gist of these analysts essentially posit that we trade worthless fiat currency representing computer blood and in return we receive tangible goods and resources like oil. In this way we are able to exploit the labor and resources of other countries and we simply exchange them for promissory notes that we can generate at will.

Thoughts?
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at June 06, 2019 07:42 PM (gkD/j)

That's the traditional economic view.

There's never actually a deficit or surplus since we give USDs for things, and the foreign government either holds the USDs, or likely converts them in to US Treasury bonds, so it all evens out.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:46 PM (GBteo)

259 It won't Dr. John, most likely Elton John. Elton John is next on the list of dead entertainers, right after Freddy Mercury.

Posted by: Eromero at June 06, 2019 07:47 PM (qBNEP)

260 A sad day for the music world. Dr John has passed away. RIP
Posted by: Deep State is in DEEP SHIT

I hope he walks on gossamer golden splinters.

Posted by: Miklos, yeah you rite at June 06, 2019 07:48 PM (QzkSJ)

261 The media is bad, but twitter makes them worse. A NY times reporter writes an article, presumably it is read by an editor and fact checker before it goes to print. With twitter this cunt with a blue check and a NY times bio can see trump doing an interview with Fox 15 minutes after the scheduled start of the d day ceremony, presume it is his arrogance and self centered desire to interview with Fox that is delaying the ceremony, and tweet that thought to her thousand followers, with the weight of her blue check and byline behind it. Immediately that tweed is sent around the world and stokes outrage. The retraction is seen by nobody.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at June 06, 2019 07:48 PM (dNzKv)

262 NOOD Target Homo

Posted by: DR.WTF at June 06, 2019 07:48 PM (aS1PU)

263 The problem is that although it is 'Fiat' money, it still has value in the world.

Its how we keep score. And while we may devalue the dollar, its still the worlds primary currency.

So we are, in essence, exporting wealth.
Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (NgKpN)

I think economically is probably mostly right, but we need to look at the bigger picture.

Let's take it to the extreme -- we import 100% of the shit we consume in the US, and we all just sit around not working. But in exchange we print and send over USDs.

That doesn't sound like an economically successful model, but according to keynesian economics, it should be totally kosher.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:49 PM (GBteo)

264 Dr. John and Leon Redbone- The day the music died.

Posted by: Ben Had at June 06, 2019 07:49 PM (HDU3E)

265 Like we get very little out of trading with China. We get to offshore some of our pollution, and maybe get slightly cheaper shit (MAYBE, because in the US capital is much cheaper than labor, so I think we could manufacture things almost as cheaply as they do in china with more automation then they us).

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:44 PM (GBteo)

I remember an article years ago about Apple and iPhones. They used to make them in the U.S., but moved their manufacturing to China where it was $20 per phone cheaper, i.e. not much at all when you consider the ridiculously high price of such phones. I hope they are getting well and truly bitten in the behind by the tariffs these days.

Posted by: HTL at June 06, 2019 07:51 PM (gVyJ+)

266 Dr John

Indeed Deep State. Say Goodnight Mac,,, and thanks.

Maybe tonight's ONT cob will put that one up from The Last Waltz.

Posted by: teej at June 06, 2019 07:51 PM (A3w0Q)

267
Posted by: HTL at June 06, 2019 07:45 PM (gVyJ+)

I question how much of this is driven by foreign money as well.

In 2016 $5.5 Trillion of 23 Trillion in stock was owned by foreigners.

Interesting I can't seem to find it broken down by country.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:53 PM (NgKpN)

268 I remember an article years ago about Apple and iPhones. They used to make them in the U.S., but moved their manufacturing to China where it was $20 per phone cheaper, i.e. not much at all when you consider the ridiculously high price of such phones. I hope they are getting well and truly bitten in the behind by the tariffs these days.
Posted by: HTL at June 06, 2019 07:51 PM (gVyJ+)

Seems like shipping costs would pretty much eat up a $20 per phone cheaper manufacturing cost.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:55 PM (NgKpN)

269 Posted by: Harry Paratestes at June 06, 2019 07:49 PM (GBteo)

Fiat currency is merely a call on a country's goods and services. If they have no goods and services that anyone wants, their fiat currency is worth bupkis.

That's why Soviet rubles weren't worth shit; the Soviets didn't produce anything that anyone else wanted to buy, and so no one bothered to exchange hard fiat currency for their worthless fiat currency.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:55 PM (YqDXo)

270 In 2016 $5.5 Trillion of 23 Trillion in stock was owned by foreigners.

Posted by: Don Q at June 06, 2019 07:53 PM (NgKpN)

Actually, I think that that's good. It means that other countries have an interest in our economy doing well, and conversely, that torpedoing our economy will hose them too.

Btw, this is why threats of war clobber stock markets - because investors are worried about getting their money out of a country with which their own may soon be at war, and so sell in a panic.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at June 06, 2019 07:58 PM (YqDXo)

271 We must destroy the media. I don't see another option. We have no greater enemy. They're a 24/7 lying, slander and subversion machine.
Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice
---------

They came out of the schools.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 06, 2019 08:01 PM (D22Dj)

272 Just watched Trump's speech downstairs. Boy, what a tear jerker of a great speech.

Posted by: Infidel at June 06, 2019 08:10 PM (xzK3J)

273 Of course good, I just got here.

Ok, 1 more then lights out.

Posted by: Skip at June 06, 2019 08:19 PM (BbGew)

274 It's worse than that.

It is a poker game, and the chips are our lives and jobs. Hmmmm. If I trade this chip on steel, I get this chip in wood products. If I trade this chip on aluminum, I get china's promise not to oppose sanctions on Iran.

That's on a good day.

On a bad day, If I trade this chip on steel, I get and $100,000 contribution from this corporate donor. If I trade this chip on glass, I get to go home a week early and get a blow job from a hooker.

It is all monopoly money to these guys, and they will happily trade your livelihood for a smidgeon more prestige for themselves.

Free trade isn't a complicated concept. If I were to trade my chainsaw for my neighbors' lawn mower, we'd both likely benefit. If I trade YOUR chainsaw for the neighbors' lawnmower, both my neighbor and I would benefit.

You'd be screwed of course, but hey, fuck you.

Free trade assumes the person doing the trading, negotiating the deals, has a stake in what is being traded. Once that stake is gone, once the costs and benefits are to other people, well, that is where it all becomes monopoly money to these guys.

Trump's worked so many deals he doesn't know how to have a deal where his side gets nothing, or gets prestige, or draft picks in the nebulous future. he just doesn't buy in. It's a visceral thing.

Why the fuck do we have any free trade agreement with Mexico, when Mexico won't stop illegal border crossing? We don't need them for anything. Why would I loan my neighbor my lawn mower if that prick let's his dog shit in my yard every day? Either we are friends or we are not, and trade is just one aspect of that.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 09:20 PM (VPvxh)

275 Chinese ships owned by the Chinese government ship Chinese junk to us for free.

Big scam.

But hey, $20 for an iphone - a shipping container cost $3,000 to ship to the U.S. Just 150 iPhones in that container pay the cost of shipping.

Posted by: Inspector Kemp at June 06, 2019 09:25 PM (VPvxh)

276 I love it when progressives argue for free trade with dictatorships. I really don't think they understand there cannot be free trade with a nation that depends on slavery.

Posted by: I am not corey Booker at June 07, 2019 04:02 PM (nRj4F)

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