The "Opioid Overdose Epidemic" Might Not Be As Bad As The Media Say...

I have been deeply suspicious of the neo-Puritanical drive to end the use of opioid pain medication in America. They are wonderful medications for otherwise intractable pain, and most people can use them without issue.

Because most people aren't addicts.

Just like most gun owners aren't criminals. And most drinkers aren't drunk drivers. But as usual, America is on the insane arc of the pendulum and is over-regulating, using suspicious data and hysterical media manipulation.

Who Is Telling The Truth About Prescription Opioid Deaths? DEA? CDC? Neither?

First, given the non-stop barrage of opioid crisis stories, most of which have been dead wrong, many people will automatically assume that "controlled prescription drugs" refers to prescription opioids. It does not. Other classes of drugs are also controlled and they are lumped together with opioids:

Controlled prescription drugs (CPDs) includes, but is not limited to narcotics (e.g. Vicodin, OxyContin), depressants (e.g. Valium, Xanax), stimulants (e.g. Adderall, Ritalin), and anabolic steroids (e.g. Anadrol, Oxandrin).
Indeed, if you look carefully enough there is a separate definition for opioid analgesic drugs:
Opioid analgesic overdose deaths include deaths from natural and semi-synthetics: codeine, morphine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, and methadone.
This means that:

•Controlled prescription drugs may be responsible for most drug-related overdose deaths, but since other classes are included in the CPD group we cannot know whether this conclusion applies to opioid analgesics without knowing the contribution of depressants, stimulants, and anabolic steroids.
•If you believe that this language is reminiscent of what we heard from PROP (Physicians for Responsible Opioid Prescribing) and the CDC you are not alone.
•If you believe that this language may be intentionally constructed to convey another message you are not alone.

Why, If I didn't trust my government, I would think we were being lied to!

Posted by: CBD at 12:15 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Firstest

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 12:18 PM (BbGew)

2 I no longer trust ANY government agency.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:19 PM (mpXpK)

3
Who is the Nearest Available Republican?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 12:20 PM (X3lUd)

4 Shame we can't have an actual discussion about how much is coming from Mexico.

Between that and the sh*thole diseases that are being blamed on Creationism and anti-vaxxers catching them from... somewhere? we'd have a wall in two weeks once soccer moms began to understand what was killing and maiming their kids.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - PROOF THAT TRUMP IS RACIST!!! at April 28, 2019 12:20 PM (uTPtJ)

5 Is there an official Government Endorsed, 'Opiod Pyramid'?

...because, that Food Pyramid did us a world of good.

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:21 PM (fuhxv)

6 I have some scepticism of this as well. Not that it's a quick prescription from Doctors who hand it out like candy but the amount of addicts on it.

Corgis dutifully caller BTW

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 12:21 PM (BbGew)

7 I think it's always a good idea to be suspicious of any government crusade, but I do think this is a real issue, just because I've known several people that got sucked into it.

I don't think it's so much the "death toll", but just a lot of functioning addicts.

Even someone like Rush Limbaugh got sucked into it yet somehow was able to carry on while using and be uber-successful and lucid.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:22 PM (UfkIY)

8 I always wondered if there was a "hate Whitey" component to this. See, it's just crackers and crazy vets who are addicted!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Lederpantsen Enthusiast at April 28, 2019 12:23 PM (kQs4Y)

9 Controlled prescription drugs may be responsible for most drug-related overdose deaths

I don't believe that for a second.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at April 28, 2019 12:23 PM (EgshT)

10 I trust the government, I trust them to do the wrong thing almost always.

Posted by: navybrat hates disco music at April 28, 2019 12:23 PM (108IH)

11 but I do think this is a real issue, just because I've known several people that got sucked into it.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:22 PM (UfkIY)

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Maybe it seems like we have more of a problem because the stigma of being an addict is decreasing day by day...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:24 PM (wYseH)

12 It is possible as soon as any government agency claims a problem I am wondering what their take is before buying in on it.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 12:24 PM (BbGew)

13 I don't believe anything the govt has to say, everything has been tainted by leftist spin and propaganda. But no doubt massive new regulations will be required to protect the children. And white privilege/racism is at the root of the problem.

Posted by: Ripley at April 28, 2019 12:24 PM (MxEKc)

14
We have a couple - friends - who lost their youngest son to an opioid overdose nearly three years ago. Since then, and surely out of grief, his father has been on a "no opioids for anyone!" rant whenever the spirit moves him.

This would include my wife, who does not abuse them and needs them to manage her spinal pain. Her take is "just because your child was a closeted opioid abuser does not mean everyone else who takes them is, too."

The two of them have not had a conversation on the subject, suffice it to say.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at April 28, 2019 12:25 PM (pNxlR)

15 The CDC is blaming failure to get vaccinations for the measles and mumps epidemics in places like NY. But that is not the problem. Both of those diseases had all but died out in the US. Now they are being brought back by people returning from 3rd world shit-holes and illegals.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:25 PM (mpXpK)

16 The Government rarely goes on these crusades against Non-Profit Organizations, does it?

Pretty much only the orgs that turn a large profit in the private sector need worry about them.

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:25 PM (fuhxv)

17 Almost all Opioid overdoses are coming from newly introduced fentanyl that is illegally made and mixed with heroin for extra punch at a reduced cost. There is an illicit drug problem caused by an open border to our south. Prescription drugs are not the problem.

Posted by: Spock at April 28, 2019 12:26 PM (+VE3Z)

18 Almost all Opioid overdoses are coming from newly introduced fentanyl
that is illegally made and mixed with heroin for extra punch at a
reduced cost. There is an illicit drug problem caused by an open border
to our south. Prescription drugs are not the problem.


Bingo.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at April 28, 2019 12:26 PM (EgshT)

19 Most opioid deaths are from fentanyl, coming from China, in through Mexico.

Prescription overdoses are rare.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2019 12:26 PM (cY3LT)

20 I no longer trust ANY Progressive.

My distrust for the government is for the same old same old reasons of incompetence and corruptions.

My distrust of progressivism is existential, both physically and the spiritually.

Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:27 PM (786Ro)

21 Over prescription led to a drug crisis, and one which affected the wrong kinds of people, especially.

Now, we've gone too far the other, IMO.

I didn't visit a doctor for ten years. It's impossible that I ever exhibited drug seeking behavior.

When I threw my back out last year, I didn't sleep for weeks, and they still wouldn't prescribe me anything. So I did just go buy some on the street. I only ended up using about ten of them, because CBD helped a whole lot.

This is how you empower street dealers. There has to be a balance somewhere.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 12:28 PM (5aX2M)

22 Anecdotal evidence is worthless.
.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo



This.

The other day, I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!" .

Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (786Ro)

23 >>I didn't visit a doctor for ten years. It's impossible that I ever exhibited drug seeking behavior.

When I threw my back out last year, I didn't sleep for weeks, and they still wouldn't prescribe me anything. So I did just go buy some on the street.


This.

I can buy all the heroin I want, illegally...but if I want a Flexoril to arrest back spasms, I am shit out of luck.

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (fuhxv)

24 Both of those diseases had all but died out in the
US. Now they are being brought back by people returning from 3rd world
shit-holes and illegals.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:25 PM (mpXpK)

Wrong. Measles is ubiquitous. The virus is everywhere. Certainly some component of the current problem is the increased number of unvaccinated illegals, but there are plenty of idiot unvaccinated citizens who spread the disease.

The issue is the destruction of herd immunity by the anti-vaxxers. If everyone in the US were vaccinated, then the 3rd world savages who bring these diseases into America would have a much smaller influence over our health.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (wYseH)

25 >>I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!"


This is retarded, Ma'am.

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:30 PM (fuhxv)

26 Big Mass Tort cases are rolling and will boil up to take lots and lots of money out of the opioid manufacturers/distributors and the like.

With the feds and local looters on their side, the cases will settle but little Johnny Fentanyl and little Mary Narcan will see little if any of the proceeds.

Your legal system at work.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at April 28, 2019 12:31 PM (Z+IKu)

27 Montana is only zoned for dennil floss.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Lederpantsen Enthusiast at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (kQs4Y)

28 19 Most opioid deaths are from fentanyl, coming from China, in through Mexico.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 28, 2019 12:26 PM (cY3LT)


Why, that almost sounds like chemical warfare.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (sdi6R)

29 The number one cause of opioid overdoses is no longer Rx drugs, it's heroin and/or fentanyl.

And most Rx opioid overdoses are not from legal prescriptions.

Chronic pain patients and their doctors are being targeted, but they account for a very small percentage of overdoses.


Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (SJiiM)

30 @4 Moron Robbie-Problem is counterfeit NORCO/Hydrocodone coming over the border that has Fentanyl in it. People "pad" their prescriptions, buy from someone selling this stuff, take Fentanyl laced pill and boom you hit the ground dead if it has a lethal amount.

For the record I agree, people that need pain medication should get it.

Posted by: JROD at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (c7pBL)

31 The orange groves in Montana are spectacular.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at April 28, 2019 12:33 PM (sHMBE)

32
27 Montana is only zoned for dennil floss.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Lederpantsen Enthusiast at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (kQs4Y)


Well, it is the only location where the face-sized Floss Spiders are native.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at April 28, 2019 12:33 PM (pNxlR)

33 .......people beat me to the Fentanyl. Typing on phone at work.

Posted by: JROD at April 28, 2019 12:33 PM (c7pBL)

34 A lot of what is behind this hysteria (and manufactured confusion) is the left target Big Pharma. When I say "confusion" I am talking about the media and these "concerned" health officials labeling heroin overdoses as opioid overdoses. Splitting hairs here? Not really. There is a huge difference between the two, both sociologically and legally.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at April 28, 2019 12:35 PM (EgshT)

35 >>> 25 >>I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!"


This is retarded, Ma'am.
Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:30 PM (fuhxv)

Ha! That's why we can grow peaches in Palisade, CO also (elevation not quite 5k feet).

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM (0ReGO)

36 Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Maybe it seems like we have more of a problem because the stigma of being an addict is decreasing day by day...
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

___________

Isn't this whole blog just anecdotes? Like you being "suspicious"?

Government always over reacts, and I'm sure they will screw this up. But all the stats point do point to a huge swath of people using this stuff as recreation that weren't before. Just looking at the sales of these drugs over the last few years is staggering.

I always considered "opiods" to be prescription pain killers. Is that the distinction you're trying to make? That it's not all the same?

The reason I don't have a huge problem cracking down on this is I would wager most prescription are paid through tax dollars with things like MediCaid. I don't really care if someone wants to drink beer all day, I just don't want to pay for the beer and then their welfare because they can't hold a job.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM (UfkIY)

37 North Slope wine is sublime.

Posted by: DR.WTF at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM (aS1PU)

38
Delaware switched to a system last year when any and all pain meds can only be legally prescribed by the staff of "pain management clinics". This policy change was recommended by a panel overstaffed with, you guessed it, pain management quacks.

A reign of overt quackery has since ensued.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at April 28, 2019 12:37 PM (pNxlR)

39 As I continue to point out, the purpose of the Federal, and now State governments, is to spend money, not to solve problems. How does the prescription drug crackdown increase spending? One, it forms task forces that require tax payer funds to continue. Decreasing prescription opioid writing just substitutes non-opoid pain prescriptions, as well as drives people to the black market. The cost of black market opioids is actually less, when you remove insurance expenditures and the profit margin is higher. Fighting the "Drug War" is a guaranteed money pit, since the government won't prevent banks from laundering money for drug dealers, and we have to increase financing to law enforcement agencies to fight "the war".. And besides, there are billions to be made by government grifters in protecting cartels. In addition, we have a thriving "rehab" industry for resulting addicts, which is subsidized by the taxpayer. "Rehab" is not that successful so you have multiple rounds of "rehab", at taxpayer expense, natch. Always remember: the closest thing to eternal life on earth is a government program, which always increases their budget each year.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at April 28, 2019 12:37 PM (3sjI6)

40 >>The orange groves in Montana are spectacular


You haven't lived until you have tasted a Phillipsberg Papaya!

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:37 PM (fuhxv)

41 People with uncontrollable chronic pain are the biggest victims in this whole mess. They have nothing too lose by going too street drugs. I hope I or my wife don't get to that point. Fuck me. both of us are on the slippery slope of progressive disease that eventually get very painful. Tylenol and gabapnenten only work so much. Our drug possibilities are going too come up short eventually.

Posted by: usntakim at April 28, 2019 12:38 PM (0OmEj)

42 First a disclaimer - I do not take opioids, and do not have any personal axe to grind on this topic...

so having said that, for the sake of argument, what's wrong with allowing someone to live as a functional addict, as long as they can afford to do it? If they get too far gone, they're going to lose family and the ability to afford what they're doing, so it's a self correcting problem.

I don't see the value in making people be "good" for it's own sake. And as far as the OD's - regulate the supply and cut out the fentanyl, and most of that goes away. That's like the problem of wood alcohol during prohibition - the prohibition regime is what made the poison widely available.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 12:38 PM (V2Yro)

43 They are wonderful medications for otherwise intractable pain, and most people can use them without issue.

Because most people aren't addicts.


They are great drugs for serious pain but this is not the issue. Opioids are dangerous because they are PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE, as opposed to habituating, which is what most people mean when they say "addicting", but there is a huge difference.

I agree with you that this is a bullshit "crisis". I don't who thought it up but everyone and his brother have been pushing it. There is an issue, for sure, and not one to scoff at. Many doctors have been prescribing opioids like candy and they are not drugs to be toyed with in any way. THe new "crisis" seems to stem from the fact that they are now available in a very simple to use form of a pill, whereas you used to have to inject them (which, in and of itself, kept tons of people from ever taking them and stopped doctors from even trying to prescribe them for any out-patients).

There is a crisis, though, and it is with our shitty doctors. Now, we have always had a crisis with them. Back, decades ago, they managed to get a huge number of housewives hooked on speed pills (diet pills) and then valium and then quaaludes and then xanax and then ... Our doctors don't seem to be trustworthy with the prescription power - and it is only doctors who can prescribe any of these things. Not pharmaceutical companies, not anyone else. Just doctors.

Of course, we just had people pushing through this "medical marijuana" bullshit and managed to not only pass that but skip right ahead to recreational pot without any delay (which was always the real intention behind the "medical marijuana" farce) so I guess we shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 28, 2019 12:38 PM (AQToM)

44 As with gun deaths, I always want to know the
sub-categories statistics, ...which are never available.

A. How many people are killed by gunshot:
no drugs, no gang-related, no suicide.
Straight murder of an acquaintance, or during
commission of a felony robbery.

What's that? 10% of the total?

B. How many deaths are due to opiod overdose
in patients with a real prescription for intractable pain?

How many are addicts who use "pill mill"
fake prescriptions, as a source of opiods?

How many "opiod deaths" are addicts killed by
fentanyl laced heroin?

Again, like firearm related deaths, I bet the accidental overdose
of *real* patients is a small percentage of all deaths.

A gang member who shoots a rival over drugs,
or a street junkie killed by fentanyl
concerns me not in the least.

Posted by: retropox at April 28, 2019 12:39 PM (0NCXk)

45
Hudson Bay Pinot Noir '17 is to die for, I'm told. It's the polar bear feces that renders the grapes so superb for this wine.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at April 28, 2019 12:39 PM (pNxlR)

46 Coconuts migrated to Washington State.

Posted by: nurse ratched at April 28, 2019 12:39 PM (PkVlr)

47 OK...here's the opioid deal:

1) Today it all comes from Mexico, & it's mixed with fentanyl, & it's the fentanyl that kills most drug abusers now.

2) Doctors over-prescribing oxycontin & so on? That's quaint! The feds came down like a ton of bricks on that-- so the Mexican cartels picked up the ball years ago. The idea that we need to crack down more on doctors TODAY is real "build a better buggy whip" thinking.

Posted by: mnw at April 28, 2019 12:40 PM (Cssks)

48 Fentanyl

In BC we have 1000s of Opioid deaths, but only a few hundred are non-fentanyl related.

And Carfentanil is coming on strong.

Posted by: JON at April 28, 2019 12:40 PM (ty4oL)

49 Pretty much every news story, especially ones about a crisis, are probably fake to some degree. We live in a fake narrative. Its interesting how hostile the news media is to am actual crisis, like our boarder. They get very hostile when the real problems get attention.

Posted by: Max Power at April 28, 2019 12:40 PM (QCc6B)

50 Kind of an Odd Topic for Big CBD to be pushing, no?


You'd think he'd be all about replacing opioids with his own pain relieving products?

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:41 PM (fuhxv)

51 First of all , I don't believe the Media is overstating the epidemic. In fact, I see it being played down No one really wants to talk about it because of what it reveals about the state of the white middle and upper-middle class.
the Opioid Crisis has devastated New Jersey. Bergen Country kids from wealthy families are regularly coming into Paterson and buying fentanyl-laced heroin and many of them never make it back home--either OD'ing right in their car ---or in a horrific crash on the way home.
Few families have been directly or indirectly touched by it, yet few really want to talk about it.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 28, 2019 12:41 PM (NFEMn)

52 This.

The other day, I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!" .
Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (786Ro)

assuming that's true (and I don't), ask her how those peach trees did in the 40 below weather Montana had in January.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 12:42 PM (V2Yro)

53 I don't trust the media reporting on anything. If they say it's raining, I look outside before I believe it's raining.
Similarly I distrust a lot of what government agencies put out. Too many years in DC. There is always an agenda.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 28, 2019 12:43 PM (0tfLf)

54 Although it may be tightening up, I remember when I practiced pharmacy that those special and abused "pets" of the system got a free pass when it came to opioid prescribing. It actually seemed that welfare patients would get opioids prescribed 100 at a time, while true pain sufferers that could afford to buy it would only get maybe 30. And the "pets" subsidized their income by selling the opioids, which were usually given to them cost free, on the street for $5 to $10 a dose. Funny how socialism inevitably breeds capitalism for those that can game the system.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at April 28, 2019 12:43 PM (3sjI6)

55 I always considered "opiods" to be prescription pain
killers. Is that the distinction you're trying to make? That it's not
all the same?

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM (UfkIY)

Read the article.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:43 PM (wYseH)

56 ask her how those peach trees did in the 40 below weather Montana had in January.


Well it's 40 below and I don't give a fuck, got a heater in my truck and I'm going to the rodeo...

Posted by: That Song at April 28, 2019 12:45 PM (fuK7c)

57 That's why our State Credo is -

Montana : The Last Great Peach (Before Edmonton)

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:45 PM (fuhxv)

58 Wrong. Measles is ubiquitous. The virus is
everywhere. Certainly some component of the current problem is the
increased number of unvaccinated illegals, but there are plenty of idiot
unvaccinated citizens who spread the disease.

The issue is the
destruction of herd immunity by the anti-vaxxers. If everyone in the US
were vaccinated, then the 3rd world savages who bring these diseases
into America would have a much smaller influence over our health.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (wYseH)

Read this and note how wrong you are. Also note that the NY outbreak has already spread to MI. Note also that it has spread to unvaccinated citizens but it had to start somewhere else. In NY's case it was returning Joos from Israel.



Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:45 PM (mpXpK)

59 the Opioid Crisis has devastated New Jersey.

The Democrats and our corrupt modern culture have devastated New Jersey. Opioid abuse is just one of the minor symptoms. Focusing on that is like focusing on a runny nose in a patient that has cancer.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 12:45 PM (V2Yro)

60 Also, any overdose death where an opioid is found in the system is called an "opioid-related death", even if the primary cause is, say, Zanax and alcohol.

So if someone took an oxycontin days earlier and then overdosed on something else, that's categorized as "opioid-related", because it will still be detected in the person's system.


We have been barraged by government/media propaganda on this, and it's fueled by grieving "activist" parents who want their children's deaths to mean something.



Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:46 PM (SJiiM)

61
The other day, I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!" .
Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (786Ro)

assuming that's true (and I don't), ask her how those peach trees did in the 40 below weather Montana had in January.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 12:42 PM (V2Yro)

Yeah, and not too long ago they were making wine in Scotland.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at April 28, 2019 12:46 PM (Ct55T)

62 Isn't this whole blog just anecdotes? Like you being "suspicious"?

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM



That "gotcha" question is faulty. Comparing apples to oranges. Comparing alleged scientific claims to a little Sunday morning commentary.

Is this blog a federal agency? A science foundation? Shall we all subject CBD's post to peer review, attempting replicate his finding?

Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (786Ro)

63 I've never forgotten this article, over two years old now. Dennis Prager: Why my stepsons father killed himself.

Apparently I cant post the link? Anyway it's easy to google.

Posted by: Quilp at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (toTro)

64 left out link
https://tinyurl.com/y7pm4sgr

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (mpXpK)

65 ......let's not forget......there's addiction and there is dependent.....there's a difference. I had to take opiates for a few years no thanks to dipshit doctors. Had to fight like hell just to get an MRI only to have them finally tell me what I already knew that, "hey, your neck is fucked up". If it wasn't for the pain killers, I wouldn't have made it through day to day. Neck is good to go by the way. Haven't had to take anything for a few years.

Posted by: JROD at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (hRbV/)

66 'Opiods and Mongoloids
and Feces on the Ground'

Posted by: James Taylor at April 28, 2019 12:48 PM (fuhxv)

67 Breaking911
@Breaking911
Richard Lugar, the longest-serving U.S. senator in the history of Indiana and an ardent foe of nuclear proliferation, has died. He was 87

Posted by: Deep State Is In DEEP SHIT at April 28, 2019 12:48 PM (BqBId)

68
They are great drugs for serious pain but this is not the issue. Opioids are dangerous because they are PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE, as opposed to habituating, which is what most people mean when they say "addicting", but there is a huge difference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Good point. There's a big difference between habit and addiction.
How can some people stop smoking cold turkey and never look back while others can't even last a day or need patches and gum--which still won't work?
It's worse with opioids because you can very easily OD.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 28, 2019 12:48 PM (NFEMn)

69 24. CBD not true. When I was in college at University of Tennessee at Martin in the late 80s early 90s there was a HUGE Japanese influx of students. There were a couple of big measles outbreaks due to the new population and we all had to get a second MMR vaccine. Vaccines work but not everyone sero-converts. I have had the Hep B series TWICE and still do not have immunity.

Posted by: Cheribebe at April 28, 2019 12:48 PM (a4qVe)

70 Between that and the sh*thole diseases that are being blamed on Creationism and anti-vaxxers catching them from... somewhere? we'd have a wall in two weeks once soccer moms began to understand what was killing and maiming their kids.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - PROOF THAT TRUMP IS RACIST!!! at April 28, 2019 12:20 PM (uTPtJ)

Well, the soccer moms are, through their personal and voting choices. But don't expect the I'm With Her, vag-voting, Paolo-fucking brigade to be capable of self-awareness.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (NWiLs)

71
OK...here's the opioid deal:

1) Today it all comes from Mexico, & it's mixed with fentanyl, & it's the fentanyl that kills most drug abusers now.


Open borders supporters assure me that most of it comes in through "ports of entry."

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (aKsyK)

72 There's plenty of studies that show that people who don't take drugs for sport-

ie. take it for temporary pain

don't become addicted. Even if they take it over a period of weeks.

When the problems over, they quit the drugs and that's that.

But, if people are in chronic pain, that's probably another challenge.

I just wonder how much of the "chronic pain" is like "disability" in SS.

And people who are dying - Holy Cow! just give them whatever drug makes them comfortable.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (CRRq9)

73 Also, any overdose death where an opioid is found in the system is called an "opioid-related death", even if the primary cause is, say, Zanax and alcohol.

So if someone took an oxycontin days earlier and then overdosed on something else, that's categorized as "opioid-related", because it will still be detected in the person's system.

We have been barraged by government/media propaganda on this, and it's fueled by grieving "activist" parents who want their children's deaths to mean something.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:46 PM (SJiiM)

-------------------------

Much the way that anyone who dies a natural death who smokes is classed as a "smoking related death".

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 12:50 PM (ffYR/)

74 46 Coconuts migrated to Washington State.

Posted by: nurse ratched at April 28, 2019 12:39 PM (PkVlr)

Actually, they found palm tree fossils in Washington and tortured logic until it confessed it proved global warming. Current thinking is plate tectonics moved that chunk from equatorial regions.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at April 28, 2019 12:50 PM (e1mEI)

75 so having said that, for the sake of argument, what's wrong with allowing someone to live as a functional addict, as long as they can afford to do it?
Posted by: Tom Servo
________________

If there was zero social safety net, it would be a good argument. I also don't think that these drugs are as easy to be a functioning addict over time. So someone that's chronically out of work, guess who's paying for their cost of living?

It is weird that places like the Rust Belt have especially higher rates of this. Is it a chicken or egg problem?

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:50 PM (UfkIY)

76 this is just one of the problems with a corrupt government that lies about every damn thing, to protect their donor class. the problem is that no one believes them on even basic important things, like vaccinations.

so we get a broader base of un-vaccinated, which reduces the "herd protection", which makes us more vulnerable when we start importing the not just un-vaccinated, but carriers of the diseases. Great planning ... I say sarcastically, but there are times it does seem they are trying to kill us off.


the meth/fentanyl death and destruction is also directly tied to the elite wanting their slaves back, and finding them in China, hollowing out middle America, and telling us it is a "natural outcome of capitalism, don't worry, it is all for the best" (for them). Thousands of small towns became ghost towns, but the elite got their slaves back, and imported even more to be cheap nannies and lawn boys, subsidized via our welfare system.


Since illegals have been counted in the census, they have about 25 reps just for them, from neighborhoods full of the worst of them, and the drugs/crime that came with them. But Pelosi and the sanctuary cities love their MS-13 gangs, getting out the vote.

Posted by: illiniwek at April 28, 2019 12:51 PM (Cus5s)

77 I always considered "opiods" to be prescription pain
killers. Is that the distinction you're trying to make? That it's not
all the same?

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:36 PM (UfkIY)


The government started conflating heroin and fentanyl with Rx opioids awhile back, about the time it became obvious that their war on Rx drugs had backfired and caused a massive increase in heroin overdoses.

There's never a good reason to be obscure in language when it's easy to be clear and specific.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:51 PM (SJiiM)

78 he Opioid Crisis has devastated New Jersey.

The Democrats and our corrupt modern culture have devastated New Jersey. Opioid abuse is just one of the minor symptoms. Focusing on that is like focusing on a runny nose in a patient that has cancer.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 12:45 PM (V2Yro)

Can't argue. Democrats have a lock on the state and they are fucking it up.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 28, 2019 12:51 PM (NFEMn)

79 I suspect some of the overdose deaths are in fact suicides. Chronic, debilitating pain can suck the will to live out of you. Especially if the future holds no hope of relief other than more drugs.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 12:51 PM (m9DnX)

80 Vaccines work but not everyone sero-converts.

Posted by: Cheribebe at April 28, 2019 12:48 PM (a4qVe)

Of course they aren't 100% effective, which is why there is almost always going to be a reservoir of virus. That's what's so amazing about our success against smallpox!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:52 PM (wYseH)

81 There's plenty of studies that show that people who don't take drugs for sport-

ie. take it for temporary pain

don't become addicted. Even if they take it over a period of weeks.


Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (CRRq9)


That's just ridiculous. People who have legitimate needs for opioids become addicted to them just as recreational users do. Do you think that being in pain somehow gives you addictive immunity to certain classes of addictive drugs? No, it doesn't. When you have a legitimate need for addictive pain killers (and many do) you still have to be extra-careful in your use of them.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 28, 2019 12:52 PM (AQToM)

82 My rectum is wrecked!

Posted by: pissworld at April 28, 2019 12:53 PM (sxqdd)

83 Posted by: Quilp at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM

https://tinyurl.com/

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 12:54 PM (BbGew)

84 Fentanyl, from China and from Mexican cartels cooking it from Chinese precursors. If there is a surge, that is what is causing the most deaths. Dealers cut their heroin with it as it is much cheaper per dose.

The estimated LD50, ie causes death in 50% of cases, in humans is ~2 milligrams, or .03 mg/kg of body weight.

Carfentanil, another synthetic opioid analog making its way into the US, has an LD50 one fiftieth that of fentanyl. Touching it in pure form can kill you.

Posted by: GnuBreed at April 28, 2019 12:54 PM (Z4rgH)

85 Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (mpXpK)

So Israel is a 3rd world shithole?

These people are anti-vaxxers, which proves my point.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:54 PM (wYseH)

86 Back when my late wife was a palliative care nurse she would from time to time run into dying people who would refuse morphine for fear of getting addicted.

Posted by: Northern Lurker, irritable, so very irritable. Have I mentioned I'm irritable? at April 28, 2019 12:55 PM (JgA4k)

87 79 Your probably right just as firearm deaths are.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 12:55 PM (BbGew)

88 I'm sitting here OD'ing on sugar-free Werther's caramel candy.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:55 PM (mpXpK)

89 Also, any overdose death where an opioid is found in the system is called an "opioid-related death", even if the primary cause is, say, Zanax and alcohol.

-------------------------------

This is something I've heard about. Wouldn't this be considered suicide? I mean, how much Xanax mixed with booze is fatal? It would seem to me it would have to be intentional.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 12:55 PM (ffYR/)

90 The government started conflating heroin and fentanyl with Rx opioids awhile back, about the time it became obvious that their war on Rx drugs had backfired and caused a massive increase in heroin overdoses.

There's never a good reason to be obscure in language when it's easy to be clear and specific.
Posted by: girldog

______________

Fetanyl though is a prescription pain killer. Once people get hooked, I'm sure there's other channels other than Walgreens, but a huge amount of it is a legally prescribed pain killer.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 12:56 PM (UfkIY)

91 I'm sitting here OD'ing on sugar-free Werther's caramel candy.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:55 PM (mpXpK)


As long as you're not gorging on the sugar-free Haribu gummy bears you should be okay.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 28, 2019 12:56 PM (AQToM)

92 82 holy fuck you people are fucking stupid, conservatism is just as much a disease as liberalism
Posted by: pissworld at April 28, 2019 12:53 PM (sxqdd)

Oh, now There's an Informed Opinion.

Posted by: Long John Silver at April 28, 2019 12:56 PM (V2Yro)

93 >>I'm sitting here OD'ing on sugar-free Werther's caramel candy.


Those things are a Gateway Drug to Sugar Free Gummies!

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:56 PM (fuhxv)

94 #76 Exactly, the desire for cheap labor at any cost is what drove the slave trade, and it's what's driving the insistence on open borders and our trade agreement with China.


Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:57 PM (SJiiM)

95 This is another situation that drives me crazy because there isn't one damn source of imformation, government or private, that can be trusted to tell the truth. NOT ONE!!! (Sure there may be a source but how can you tell?)

Posted by: JTB at April 28, 2019 12:57 PM (bmdz3)

96 85
Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:47 PM (mpXpK)

So Israel is a 3rd world shithole?

These people are anti-vaxxers, which proves my point.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:54 PM (wYseH)

That is only for NY's case. TX also has a big problem and so does CA and OR and they are coming from guess where.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 12:57 PM (mpXpK)

97 Oxy's are sold on streets of Susanville for ten bucks.

Two teenagers that died got them from a girl at high school who stole them from her granny.

All objects can be misused. You can't protect against everything.

The left though would decriminalize damn near everything ... and out here heroin use gets a measely ticket. So junkies shoot up openly. Bart...city sidewalks, public parks. Awful

Posted by: torabora at April 28, 2019 12:58 PM (pyXtH)

98 Anyone saying this isn't an issue in rural America has never been to rural America.

In Michigan I personally know two doctors who ran pill mills and handed this stuff out like crazy.

I think they're overcorrecting (as usual) but it has been a major issue for rural areas especially.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 12:58 PM (cfSRQ)

99 The biggest problem with opioids is they don't work. At least they don't work for me.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 28, 2019 12:59 PM (/tuJf)

100 CBD said:
"...there is almost always going to be a reservoir
of virus. That's what's so amazing about our
success against smallpox!"

No. there is no natural reservoir of smallpox.

Save the samples at CDC, and Russia (officially).

However, twice in the last twenty years,
a sample was found a) in a letter b) in an old hospital fridge.

Posted by: retropox at April 28, 2019 12:59 PM (0NCXk)

101 >>The biggest problem with opioids is they don't work. At least they don't work for me.


Well. You're in love with MaryJane.

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 12:59 PM (fuhxv)

102 email from the campaign of the paste eater:

Donald Trump is doubling down on his comments describing neo-Nazis in Charlottesville as "very fine people."

"If you look at what I said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly" - Donald Trump

This is exactly why we are running this campaign. So in moments like this we can show Trump that we stand united against those who use white supremacy and hate to divide us.

Posted by: mallfly the Georgia Peach at April 28, 2019 01:00 PM (ZqRa6)

103 Opiods make me throw up. Small addiction probability.

Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2019 01:01 PM (lwiT4)

104 >>Well. You're in love with MaryJane.

Unfortunately, doesn't work either.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 28, 2019 01:01 PM (/tuJf)

105 22
The other day, I heard a woman claim global warming was real because " they're growing peaches in Montana!" .
Posted by: Hands at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (786Ro)


Get back to me when they have vineyards in England like they did 1000 years ago.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 01:01 PM (sdi6R)

106 Actually, they found palm tree fossils in Washington and tortured logic until it confessed it proved global warming. Current thinking is plate tectonics moved that chunk from equatorial regions."

Even Antarctica was once full of lush forests. It's widely accepted that during the Jurassic and Cretaceous, the Earth was about 9 degrees warmer than it is today - and it's also estimated that in terms of bio-mass, there was twice as much on the surface of the Earth then than there is now. In other words, the warmer it gets, the *Better* Life on this Earth does. There was no permanent ice anywhere on the Earth in those ages, and the world and everything on it did just fine. In fact, better than fine.

Think on that the next time some clown says the World will End if temperatures go up by 2 degrees.

Posted by: Long John Silver at April 28, 2019 01:02 PM (V2Yro)

107 103
Opiods make me throw up. Small addiction probability.


Posted by: grammie winger at April 28, 2019 01:01 PM (lwiT4)

---
They were great on me, but I don't like the constipation.

As soon as the pain becomes bearable, I stop taking them.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:02 PM (cfSRQ)

108 8 I always wondered if there was a "hate Whitey" component to this. See, it's just crackers and crazy vets who are addicted!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Lederpantsen Enthusiast at April 28, 2019 12:23 PM (kQs4Y)

Chicago gets a few now and then caught in the crossfire fighting over the business of opioids.

Posted by: Roy at April 28, 2019 01:03 PM (ABjxW)

109 Anyone saying this isn't an issue in rural America has never been to rural America.

In Michigan I personally know two doctors who ran pill mills and handed this stuff out like crazy.

I think they're overcorrecting (as usual) but it has been a major issue for rural areas especially.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd

_________________

Exactly, this is a real problem. Ask any law enforcement in rural areas.

If you want to say government will over react and over state the problem, I've got no argument there. That's what they do.

But to pretend it's purely manufactured problem and "nothing to see here" is just ignorant.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:03 PM (UfkIY)

110 No. there is no natural reservoir of smallpox.

Posted by: retropox at April 28, 2019 12:59 PM (0NCXk)

Uh...that was my point. It is amazing that we actually eradicated it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:04 PM (wYseH)

111 off sock

Posted by: Tom Silver at April 28, 2019 01:04 PM (V2Yro)

112 I am acquainted with more people who died from OD on narcotics than I do who have had abortions.

Posted by: Roy at April 28, 2019 01:04 PM (ABjxW)

113
Chronic pain patients and their doctors are being targeted, but they account for a very small percentage of overdoses.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 12:32 PM (SJiiM)


That is because the Gov(tm) promised that in exchange for your freedom, just a tiny bit mind you, they would solve most of this problem. However forcing compliance on non-compliant people like addicts is politically problematic, and forcing compliance on traffickers and dealers is hard, so they do the next best thing, forcing compliance and restrictions on people who will obey the law. Like people who drive their kids to school, and vets.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 28, 2019 01:05 PM (TN7xY)

114 Opiods make me throw up. Small addiction probability.

same here

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 01:05 PM (V2Yro)

115 I've noticed a growing campaign attacking vaping lately "FOR THE CHILDREN". I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end.

Posted by: Panchito Pistoles at April 28, 2019 01:05 PM (5wAVp)

116 But to pretend it's purely manufactured problem and "nothing to see here" is just ignorant.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:03 PM (UfkIY)

Read the article.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:06 PM (wYseH)

117 All I know is that I have to put on a real show to get any Hyrocodone.

Posted by: I WAS PHONE at April 28, 2019 01:07 PM (vtd+q)

118
It's easier to go after doctors, insurance companies and Pharma than it is to go after the real culprits. Just like all government crusades.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 01:07 PM (X3lUd)

119 Read the article.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:06 PM (wYseH)
---
Ha ha ha ha - expecting people to read content!

I was responding - and so was he - to other commenters.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:07 PM (cfSRQ)

120 115 I've noticed a growing campaign attacking vaping lately "FOR THE CHILDREN". I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end."

Just as the puritans before them, SJW's are afflicted with the terrible, ongoing fear that Someone, Somewhere, is enjoying themselves.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (V2Yro)

121 I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end.
Posted by: Panchito Pistoles at April 28, 2019 01:05 PM (5wAVp)

Yup...but they will always have asbestos.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (Z+IKu)

122 Ha ha ha ha - expecting people to read content!

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:07 PM (cfSRQ)

I stand corrected.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (wYseH)

123 It is indeed very hard to overdose on oxycodone or hydrocodone. You're more likely to die from too much acetaminophen, which gets added to almost all Rx painkillers to, ironically, try to curb abuse.

Fentanyl is obviously a different story.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (oZ6kz)

124 Fent and H are the bigger killers to be sure.

But we get worked up about Percocet and OC because of quality, not quantity.

For better or worse, nobody cares much about the inner-city culture of poverty, ignorance, addiction, and cradle-to-grave dependence and misery.

But drugs that hook your accountant and your kid are a big fucking concern to normies.

There has to be a reasonable balance to strike between doctors being candy dispensers and doctors being sadists.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:09 PM (YCuAg)

125 110 No. there is no natural reservoir of smallpox.

Posted by: retropox at April 28, 2019 12:59 PM (0NCXk)
Uh...that was my point. It is amazing that we actually eradicated it.

Oh. I read it otherwise. no sweat.

Posted by: retropox at April 28, 2019 01:09 PM (0NCXk)

126 Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (CRRq9)

That's just ridiculous. People who have legitimate needs for opioids become addicted to them just as recreational users do. Do you think that being in pain somehow gives you addictive immunity to certain classes of addictive drugs? No, it doesn't. When you have a legitimate need for addictive pain killers (and many do) you still have to be extra-careful in your use of them.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 28, 2019 12:52 PM (AQToM)


I think what he means is that people who take opioids for pain have no problem getting off them when the pain in no longer an issue. I took morphine every day for about six years and then easily weened myself off.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:09 PM (SJiiM)

127
The Opium War II: Revenge of the East.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 01:10 PM (X3lUd)

128 To all Orthodox Christians in the Horde: Christos Anesti!!!


We have an "escape from reality" problem in the human race, hence the drug problem. Making things like weed legal simply enables this.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at April 28, 2019 01:10 PM (QMwOT)

129 115 I've noticed a growing campaign attacking vaping lately "FOR THE CHILDREN". I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end.
Posted by: Panchito Pistoles at April 28, 2019 01:05 PM (5wAVp)


I've heard that sales of nicotine gum and patches have plummeted since vaping caught on. So I'd look at Big Pharma.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 01:10 PM (sdi6R)

130 I trust the government, I trust them to do the wrong thing almost always.
Posted by: navybrat hates disco music at April 28, 2019 12:23 PM (108IH)

Just "almost always"?

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at April 28, 2019 01:11 PM (3sjI6)

131 I've noticed a growing campaign attacking vaping lately "FOR THE
CHILDREN". I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial
lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end.
=====

Made me laugh. Just like moar taxes on gas, tobacco, and liquor. By taxing creating a diminishing fund. Same with 'War on Drugs' nonsense. Endless 'wars' like prohibition.

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (MIKMs)

132 Just got home so I missed all the Sunday Talk Shows. Will I need opiods before getting a synopses of what was said?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (Y+V3r)

133 I've noticed a growing campaign attacking vaping lately "FOR THE CHILDREN". I'm not sure who profits from attacking vapers. Maybe trial lawyers are upset that the tobacco funds are coming to an end."

Just as the puritans before them, SJW's are afflicted with the terrible, ongoing fear that Someone, Somewhere, is enjoying themselves.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (V2Yro)

------------------------------

The attack on vaping is no doubt primarily funded by the tobacco and pharma lobbies. It is easy to get politicians on board when you combine lobbyist cash with the fact that vaping reduces tobacco taxes collected.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (ffYR/)

134 My folks lived in a 55+ community in FL. Illegally gotten pain meds were extremely common amongst the residents. Pam Bondi (AG) basically made Physicians scared to death to prescribe so rather than suffer, many were forced to become criminals. My 82 yr old Mother, who is recently deceased, had spinal stenosis and her Dr. told her she would have to go to a pain Dr. So, she did but they could only prescribe 20 days worth on a 30 day cycle. The other 10 days she was out of luck.

Posted by: StellasTwoCents at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (Z0huu)

135
I personally believe that a big component of the government/media emphasis on Rx drugs is a desire to distract attention away from the illegal drugs that are coming across the border and that now account for most overdose deaths.

They don't want the public to start demanding a border wall, or see that Trump is right about that.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (SJiiM)

136 Around 1900, somewhere around 3/4 of Americans were hooked on morphine.

Posted by: I WAS PHONE at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (vtd+q)

137 I thought a hefty proportion of opiod overdoses occurred from illegally obtained drugs, not people for whom they were prescribed.

Am I wrong?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (plMK3)

138 Let's close the southern border for 2 years and see what happens to our drug problem. Our illegal problem will all but vanish and I bet our drug crisis will drop considerably.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (QMwOT)

139 I think what he means is that people who take
opioids for pain have no problem getting off them when the pain in no
longer an issue. I took morphine every day for about six years and then
easily weened myself off.





Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:09 PM (SJiiM)

---
Some people can do that, others can't.

Both my parents smoked cigarettes into their late 30s when popular opinion turned against it.

My father simply quit. He finished a pack one day and decided not to buy more. That was it. He quit a 20-year habit cold turkey with zero side effects.

My mother quit around 1990 and ever since then has struggled to stay away.

So yes, some people can stop taking them and other really struggle to do it.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (cfSRQ)

140 When you have a legitimate need for addictive pain killers (and many do) you still have to be extra-careful in your use of them.


Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at April 28, 2019 12:52 PM (AQToM)

I'm not sure that is the case. I'll bet most people dislike the side-effects as much as they like the decrease in pain, so have no problem simply stopping.

Although...that's called an anecdote!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (wYseH)

141 The measles outbreak in Israel is centered on Jerusalem among the "ultra-orthodox Joos many of who refuse to be vaccinated


Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:14 PM (mpXpK)

142 The attack on vaping is no doubt primarily funded by
the tobacco and pharma lobbies. It is easy to get politicians on board
when you combine lobbyist cash with the fact that vaping reduces tobacco
taxes collected.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 01:12 PM (ffYR/)

---
Don't forget the anti-smoking organizations. They are dying off. This gives them new fund-raising opportunities.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:14 PM (cfSRQ)

143 From. the archives, obligatory:

************

Ron Howard's Lament - a limerick

My manners are sweet, I'm the nicest
I've given up all of my vices
Gee-whillikers Aunt Bea, I said
I'm freckled and my hair is red
Lord help me, it's an Opie-oid crisis!

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (mvenn)

144 Read the article.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

__________

I did

I still think opioid addiction is a real problem.

The article wants to make the point that controlled prescription drugs are not the same as opioid analgesic drugs, so therefore the numbers aren't right because they add the two together.

I think 99% of the population shorthands "opioids" with all pain pills. Regardless of where they come from.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (UfkIY)

145 link

https://tinyurl.com/ya8gw6qv

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (mpXpK)

146
I thought a hefty proportion of opiod overdoses occurred from illegally obtained drugs, not people for whom they were prescribed.

Am I wrong?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara


Please report to the nearest re-education camp at once, Citizen.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 01:16 PM (X3lUd)

147 I'm not sure that is the case. I'll bet most people dislike the side-effects as much as they like the decrease in pain, so have no problem simply stopping.

-------

Also, most people aren't ignorant of the addictive potential.

Personally, I think they're pretty fun. That means: Danger! Use sparingly.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:17 PM (YCuAg)

148 All I know is that I have to put on a real show to get any Hyrocodone.

Posted by: I WAS PHONE at April 28, 2019 01:07 PM (vtd+q)

Been taking 15/20mg a day since 2010....can't get a 90 day supply anymore, only 30. For about the last 5 years, I've been drug tested during my semi-annual labs....for $800+...to ensure I'm taking the script and not selling them, and not using "street" drugs.

Posted by: BignJames at April 28, 2019 01:17 PM (ykq7q)

149 I thought a hefty proportion of opiod overdoses occurred from illegally obtained drugs, not people for whom they were prescribed.

Am I wrong?
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (plMK3)

No, you are not wrong.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:17 PM (SJiiM)

150 Just as the puritans before them, SJW's are
afflicted with the terrible, ongoing fear that Someone, Somewhere, is
enjoying themselves.
Posted by: Tom Servo at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (V2Yro)


And Bierce got that wrong. Puritians, Original and Neo, are not worried about people having fun, they are on a crusade to suppress and extinguish modes of belief they feel dangerous to their own in group or culture. They fear that their right thinking flock will be seduced by whatever is shiny and attractive from their sworn enemies (Papists, 2 car garage suburban families, whatever) and will abandon the One True Faith and no longer support their control over them.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 28, 2019 01:18 PM (TN7xY)

151 Although...that's called an anecdote!


*********

One occurrence: "In my experience..."
Two occurrences: "I've seen this time after time."
Three occurrences: "In a recent series..."

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (mvenn)

152 137
I thought a hefty proportion of opiod overdoses occurred from illegally
obtained drugs, not people for whom they were prescribed.



Am I wrong?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (plMK3)

---
Right but what about prescribed drugs that were then sold off?

In 1990s Appalachia, any time a coal miner hurt his back, he'd get a bottle from the local doctor. My wife knew families that had piles of these lying around. No one really worried about what happened with the excess.

So naturally a trade developed.

Now we're going too far the other way, and people in pain are going to suffer for those mistakes.

The real issue isn't the pills of course, it's the lack of work and collapse of domestic industry.

Which Trump is fixing. I have a 21-year-old kid who literally has never seen an economy like this one. It's opening some other eyes as well.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (cfSRQ)

153 So yes, some people can stop taking them and other really struggle to do it.
=====

30 years I have been trying to quit. All the prescriptions, counseling, OTC, and all the stuff. Unfortunately, any research is rather unreliable. I would like to see some kind of honest research about nicotine -- good and bad -- to figure out why it is easy for some and difficult for others.

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (MIKMs)

154 link

https://tinyurl.com/ya8gw6qv
Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (mpXpK)

???

Did you happen to look at the date?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (Y+V3r)

155 I think 99% of the population shorthands "opioids" with all pain pills. Regardless of where they come from.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (UfkIY)

Bu that is a problem, because a lot of it is illegal...heroin, fentanyl, etc.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (wYseH)

156 It is indeed very hard to overdose on oxycodone or hydrocodone. You're more likely to die from too much acetaminophen, which gets added to almost all Rx painkillers to, ironically, try to curb abuse.

Fentanyl is obviously a different story.
Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at April 28, 2019 01:08 PM (oZ6kz)

---------------------------

From what I understand, it is those that cross opioids with something like benzodiazipines like xanax and then throw booze into the mix that are the most susceptible to ODing. The mix amplifies the effects of all substances taken.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (ffYR/)

157 I have been deeply suspicious of the neo-Puritanical drive to end the use of opioid pain medication in America.

Me too. Reason? The hysteria surrounding them is reminiscent of oh, about the last 500 leftist causes, including, most recently, plastic straws, plastic bags, use of deodorant (OK, I made that one up), and, of course, global warming.

Leftists LOVE to create crises (which as Rahm advised, they do not waste) as a way to grasp more power. ("We must come together to fit this existential threat, comrade, never mind the Constitution or common sense! We must act NOW!"

These manufactured crises gain traction because they hit suburban soccer moms where they live, which makes them easy to stampede. (Lifetime channel, which features story after story about strong women whose existence is threatened by someone/ something, from they need to be saved, a la rescued from the train tracks to which they've been tied by Simon Legree. They apparently get a thrill from such stories.)

Some judging merely by the tenor of the proposals, I default to intense skepticism.

I listen to this: "Gee, it seems we may be having a small problem. Perhaps we should take some steps to mitigage it."

I ignore this: "RUN! We're doomed! Time is running out! We must act NOW to save ourselves!! It may be too late already!!!"

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (plMK3)

158
One occurrence: "In my experience..."
Two occurrences: "I've seen this time after time."
Three occurrences: "In a recent series..."

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (mvenn)


Four occurrences: "A peer-reviewed Harvard study proves..."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 01:21 PM (X3lUd)

159 fit --> fight

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:21 PM (plMK3)

160 The biggest problem with opioids is they don't work. At least they don't work for me.

Me either. Oxycodone makes me throwing up sick immediately. After surgery a few weeks ago, as I came of IV, they attempted small dose of the stuff. Told the nurse to get the pan cause it was coming right back up. Switched to Tramadol which I was already taking without issue.

Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 01:21 PM (m9DnX)

161 Some --> So

Sheesh.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:22 PM (plMK3)

162 Also remember that people abuse multiple drugs at once. I saw a figure that benzo's were invovled in 31% of overdoses from 2017. But how many of those were just benzos? Very few. Most of the fatalities included something else, like alcohol or opiates. Again, it's quite uncommon to OD on just, say, Xanax. Mix in booze and it's a different story.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at April 28, 2019 01:22 PM (oZ6kz)

163 I think 99% of the population shorthands "opioids" with all pain pills. Regardless of where they come from.
Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (UfkI

And this is because the government and media deliberately conflate legally obtained Rx opioids with heroin, fentanyl and illegally obtained Rx drugs.

It's no accident. They don't want people to start thinking that a border wall might solve most of the problem.

Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:22 PM (SJiiM)

164 One occurrence: "In my experience..."

Two occurrences: "I've seen this time after time."

Three occurrences: "In a recent series..."

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (mvenn)


Put more succinctly: "The plural of anecdote is not 'data'"

Posted by: Kindltot at April 28, 2019 01:22 PM (TN7xY)

165 mitigage --> mitigate

Good Lord. I'm starting to type like raimondo.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:23 PM (plMK3)

166 'From what I understand, it is those that cross opioids with something like benzodiazipines like xanax and then throw booze into the mix that are the most susceptible to ODing. The mix amplifies the effects of all substances taken.
Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (ffYR/)"

Yup. They don't play well with each other.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at April 28, 2019 01:24 PM (oZ6kz)

167 One occurrence: "In my experience..."

Two occurrences: "I've seen this time after time."

Three occurrences: "In a recent series..."

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (mvenn)


"Experts say ..."

Totally anonymous experts, whom we're not going to name, because then you'd realize that we just made up the whole thing, or cited someone like AOC or Maxine Waters as our authority.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:24 PM (plMK3)

168 154
link



https://tinyurl.com/ya8gw6qv

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:15 PM (mpXpK)



???



Did you happen to look at the date?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (Y+V3r)


Must still be going on since that is supposed to be where NY got it.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:24 PM (mpXpK)

169 I listen to this: "Gee, it seems we may be having a small problem. Perhaps we should take some steps to mitigage it."

I ignore this: "RUN! We're doomed! Time is running out! We must act NOW to save ourselves!! It may be too late already!!!"
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (plMK3)

-------

This. The answer is to aggressively target doctors who overprescribe. Bust up the pill mills and Dr. Feelgoods of the world. Not all of the medical industry.

Their first impulse is always to turn every policy up to 11.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:25 PM (YCuAg)

170 Mixing benzos with any CNS depressant is dancing with the reaper.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:26 PM (YCuAg)

171 And this is because the government and media deliberately conflate legally obtained Rx opioids with heroin, fentanyl and illegally obtained Rx drugs.

Yep. See also "homeless" for a small number of worthy people who really did fall on hard times, through no fault of their own, and will probably be back on their feet soon, as opposed to the buttload of druggies, alkies, and nutjobs who are on the street strictly and solely through their own actions or internal variables, and most of whom are probably refractory to any program.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:27 PM (plMK3)

172 If the information comes from any government, media, or "experts" it is a lie at worst and just wrong at best.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at April 28, 2019 01:27 PM (pw+jk)

173
Her Majesty is going to undergo knee-replacement surgery this summer. To try to quell the pain in her knee, she's undergone an enormous number of injections into the knee and been prescribed every medication under the sun. None has helped.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 28, 2019 01:27 PM (X3lUd)

174 Some judging merely by the tenor of the proposals, I default to intense skepticism.



I listen to this: "Gee, it seems we may be having a small problem. Perhaps we should take some steps to mitigage it."



I ignore this: "RUN! We're doomed! Time is running out! We must act NOW to save ourselves!! It may be too late already!!!"

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (plMK3)

---
What's interesting about Trump's administration is that it isn't doing the standard "Big Government will solve this" schtick.

The emphasis is on addressing other issues, what the left used to call "root causes."

Crappy trade deals gutted rural economies and small-scale manufacturing. All those federal grants did nothing but line pockets.

By shifting to addressing the market failure, the other pieces begin to fall into place.

Rural areas need updated infrastructure and opportunity. Trump is bringing both.

Suddenly they have tax revenue rolling in. They also have less people on public assistance. Young people start to stick around or even move there.

"Free trade" crushed rural areas. Dubya's big solution was ethanol bribes to corn farmers. Obama simply wrote them off.

Trump's policies are reducing the despair that leads to addiction in the first place.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:28 PM (cfSRQ)

175
Must still be going on since that is supposed to be where NY got it.
Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:24 PM (mpXpK)

Nope:

Ukraines measles outbreak began in 2017 and has had almost 70,000 cases, The New York Times reported Wednesday. In late September, following Rosh Hashanah and the annual Uman pilgrimage, measles cases exploded in Israel, to 949 in October, according to the newspaper, citing Dr. Patrick OConnor, leader of the rapid disease control team at the World Health Organizations European office, which oversees Israel. The cause is believed to be the numerous pilgrims who returned from Ukraine with the virus.





Israels measles outbreak began in March 2018, according to OConner, in a small Orthodox community in Safed, in the northern part of the country.


Orthodox Jews in Israel for the most part do not have a problem with vaccines, which are provided free there. However, large Orthodox families often are not careful about making sure all their children have their vaccinations.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:28 PM (Y+V3r)

176 There's plenty of studies that show that people who don't take drugs for sport-

ie. take it for temporary pain

don't become addicted. Even if they take it over a period of weeks.

When the problems over, they quit the drugs and that's that.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 12:49 PM (CRRq9)

Everyone is different. Why do you thing some people are addicted to methamphetamine as opposed to opiates? The neurotransmitters released (Dopamine, Endorphins, etc.) for one give a more "pleasurable" feeling for certain people than for another. And it's not like those that use meth don't have access to opiates. They could get them if they wanted. If "addiction" followed some universal rule for all, why wouldn't everyone that ever used opioids or meth be an addict? There is individual variance.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at April 28, 2019 01:29 PM (3sjI6)

177 139 I think what he means is that people who take
opioids for pain have no problem getting off them when the pain in no
longer an issue. I took morphine every day for about six years and then
easily weened myself off.





Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:09 PM (SJiiM)

---
Some people can do that, others can't.

Both my parents smoked cigarettes into their late 30s when popular opinion turned against it.

My father simply quit. He finished a pack one day and decided not to buy more. That was it. He quit a 20-year habit cold turkey with zero side effects.

My mother quit around 1990 and ever since then has struggled to stay away.

So yes, some people can stop taking them and other really struggle to do it.
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:13 PM (cfSRQ)



Well...cigarettes are a different issue.

You're not smoking to take pain away.

You're smoking because you enjoy it and want to do it.

That's a different paradigm.

That is using a drug (nicotine) recreationally, as opposed to relieving pain.

It's the difference between trying to quit something you enjoy,

and quitting something that you no longer have use for.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 01:30 PM (CRRq9)

178 Me either. Oxycodone makes me throwing up sick immediately. After surgery a few weeks ago, as I came of IV, they attempted small dose of the stuff. Told the nurse to get the pan cause it was coming right back up. Switched to Tramadol which I was already taking without issue.
Posted by: Agitator at April 28, 2019 01:21 PM (m9DnX)


After two surgeries in the last decade to fix broken bones I was prescribed Oxycodone, and took it for one day. I felt awful; bunged up, dizzy, weird, it was totally unpleasant. I stopped taking it after that, preferring to deal with the pain (which wasn't really that bad).

I'm astonished that anyone finds the experience pleasurable.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:30 PM (plMK3)

179 My last comment: The CDC doesn't track pain-related deaths the way they track opioid-related deaths.

My best friend's husband died of a massive brain hemorrhage which the hospital neurologist attributed to years of undertreated pain. He told my friend that he sees it all the time.

Pain creates surges in blood pressure that wears on the cardio-vascular system resulting in heart attacks, aneurysms, strokes.


And that doesn't count the suicides.


Posted by: girldog at April 28, 2019 01:30 PM (SJiiM)

180 As if there's something wrong about getting relief from chronic pain.

Posted by: Random Thought Generator at April 28, 2019 01:31 PM (iOKfQ)

181 Ever pass a kidney stone? I have and I know what it feels like.

I was passing another stone and called the Doc for a pain prescription. Fine, but I'm not allowed to call it in you must come to my office and pick it up.

You who have passed a stone know how one feels.
Drive 30 miles to the Doc etc etc, then to the pharmacy, and wait for it to be filled - that's a quickie -

USG helping Americans again.

Wait for the adverse reaction; there always is one. It's the law.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 01:31 PM (lkl+P)

182 Orthodox Jews in Israel for the most part do not
have a problem with vaccines, which are provided free there. However,
large Orthodox families often are not careful about making sure all
their children have their vaccinations.



Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:28 PM (Y+V3r)

---
Isn't it funny how every other disease that is making a comeback is some sort of mystery?

No one knows who brought it here. Just showed up.

But measels? Joos. Israeli ones. Dirty Israeli Joos.


Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:32 PM (cfSRQ)

183 152
The real issue isn't the pills of course, it's the lack of work and collapse of domestic industry.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 01:19 PM (cfSRQ)



A thousand times this.

I have some old Scientific American magazines from the 1950s and 60s. Looking at the classified ads, every town in America had businesses like machine shops, and companies that manufactured electronic components and chemicals for industry.

They're all gone now. They were bought out by big corporations and the jobs were sent overseas.

Today many people in small towns have little to look forward to other than a job as a clerk in a giant retail chain. And you can't sustain a middle class lifestyle on that pay.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 01:33 PM (sdi6R)

184 Bu that is a problem, because a lot of it is illegal...heroin, fentanyl, etc.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

______________

Isn't all prescription drug abuse illegal?

A lot of this addiction starts out with "the doctor won't write me a prescription anymore" (maybe because they are cracking down?) So then they source pain pills from sources outside their doctor.

Fetanyl is a manufactured real medical pain killer from legit pharmaceutical companies, has names like Sublimaze and Duragesic. If somebody overdoses on some version they got from a dealer (and not a their doctor) is it no longer an opioid overdose?

I still think "street" versions of pain killers count as opioids.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (UfkIY)

185 Yeah the "epidemic" is bullshit. I can tell because the Ad Council is all in on it.

Posted by: freaked at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (UdKB7)

186 From what I understand, it is those that cross opioids with something like benzodiazipines like xanax and then throw booze into the mix that are the most susceptible to ODing. The mix amplifies the effects of all substances taken.
Posted by: Calm Mentor at April 28, 2019 01:20 PM (ffYR/)


It's almost as if self-medicating is not a good idea.

And self-medicators are a self-selected group for drug problems, for obvious reasons.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (plMK3)

187 CBD, to paraphrase the formerly brilliant PJ O'Rourke, I'm not a liberal so I don't have much to say about things I know little about, which includes the opioid thing. But Trump and his crew seem to think it's a thing. Didn't even glance at details, but they've had several high-profile events, including this past week.


Anyone here know if the WH is on the wrong track on this?

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 01:35 PM (QDnY+)

188 Opioids have been used by humans since before written history began. It seems unlikely that they would present a new problem now that, gosh darn it, we have to give the Fed Govt. more power to solve.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:36 PM (1ISKN)

189 It only takes five days to become addicted to opioids.

Brought to you by:

Your tax dollars

And

Posted by: The Ad Council, at April 28, 2019 01:36 PM (UdKB7)

190 175 Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:28 PM (Y+V3r)




NY officials say that a returning group of Joos from Israel brought to disease back so blame them, not me.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:37 PM (mpXpK)

191 Yeah the "epidemic" is bullshit. I can tell because the Ad Council is all in on it.

Posted by: freaked at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (UdKB7)

Yep.."you can become addicted from a 3 day prescription"...

Posted by: BignJames at April 28, 2019 01:37 PM (ykq7q)

192 Pretty sure it's going to be glazed donuts that kill me, not opioids.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:39 PM (1ISKN)

193 191 Yeah the "epidemic" is bullshit. I can tell because the Ad Council is all in on it.

Posted by: freaked at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (UdKB7)

Yep.."you can become addicted from a 3 day prescription"...
Posted by: BignJames at April 28, 2019 01:37 PM (ykq7q)


I'm waiting for their campaign that warns people that one trip to a bathhouse can result in AIDS.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:39 PM (plMK3)

194 Pretty sure it's going to be glazed donuts that kill me, not opioids.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:39 PM (1ISKN)



Big Donut, man.

They're killers.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 01:40 PM (CRRq9)

195 We need a new thread.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:40 PM (mpXpK)

196 NY officials say that a returning group of Joos from Israel brought to disease back so blame them, not me.
Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:37 PM (mpXpK)

Most of the cases were reported in Borough Park and Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Four of the cases contracted the illness in Israel, where a large outbreak is likewise occurring. One case contracted measles in Ukraine, while another contracted the illness in the United Kingdom.

And as I posted before the cases in Israel originated in the Ukraine.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:41 PM (Y+V3r)

197 Opioids have been used by humans since before written history began. It seems unlikely that they would present a new problem

--------

For some reason, certain cultures seem predisposed toward massive abuse of opiates. Russians, Chinese, and Americans, specifically. The only one that doesn't currently have an issue with this is China, because they have draconian enforcement. Death penalties for users have finally been curtailed, but they still machine gun dealers in public. Historically, they've had the worst problem with it.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:41 PM (YCuAg)

198 I love it when my computer says it's not responding.

No shit, computer. I never would have noticed.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:42 PM (1ISKN)

199 The Brits made a fortune getting the Chinese hooked on opiates.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:43 PM (1ISKN)

200 194
Pretty sure it's going to be glazed donuts that kill me, not opioids.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:39 PM (1ISKN)





Big Donut, man.



They're killers.





Posted by: naturalfake at April 28, 2019 01:40 PM (CRRq9)

That is what ran my blood sugar up to 600 a few weeks ago.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:43 PM (mpXpK)

201 >>>2) Doctors over-prescribing oxycontin & so on? That's quaint! The feds came down like a ton of bricks on that-- so the Mexican cartels picked up the ball years ago. The idea that we need to crack down more on doctors TODAY is real "build a better buggy whip" thinking.

Posted by: mnw at April 28, 2019 12:40 PM (Cssks)
---------------------


Docs have been under the gun from the fed since the early middle of the last century.

Most Docs are still self employed and a fat target for the IRS. Now they are a target for the regulators. They must employ or farm out staff just to code their every activity.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 01:43 PM (lkl+P)

202 The issue is the destruction of herd immunity by the anti-vaxxers. If everyone in the US were vaccinated, then the 3rd world savages who bring these diseases into America would have a much smaller influence over our health.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 12:29 PM (wYseH)


This.

It's a simple matter of kinetics. The rate of spread is proportional to the product of the proportion of unprotected people in the population multiplied by the proportion of infected people.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:43 PM (plMK3)

203 198 I love it when my computer says it's not responding.

No shit, computer. I never would have noticed.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:42 PM (1ISKN)


My favorite: "You do not have permission to access this file."

Whose computer is this, anyway?

A close second: "consult with your system administrator." I AM the system administrator.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:45 PM (plMK3)

204 It only takes five days to become addicted to opioids.

Brought to you by:

Your tax dollars

And

Posted by: The Ad Council, at April 28, 2019 01:36 PM (UdKB7)


Well, it takes five days to get addicted to heroin, and heroin is an "opioid", so we're not *exactly* lying.

It's close enough to the truth for government work.

Posted by: The Ad Council at April 28, 2019 01:45 PM (SJiiM)

205 We need a new thread.
Posted by: Vic

And not a needle and thimble

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 01:46 PM (BbGew)

206 I once got an error message that was so cryptic that I memorized it.

"The object referenced does not reference the instance of an object."

Pure poetry.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:47 PM (1ISKN)

207 A Washburn University (Kansas) football player was killed and Giants sixth-round draft pick Corey Ballentine was injured in a Saturday night shooting in Topeka, according to Washburn.

What are the odds? LOL

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:48 PM (Y+V3r)

208 Joos from Israel brought to disease back so blame them, not me.

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:37 PM (mpXpK)

It's spelled "Jews."

"Joos" is used ironically.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:48 PM (wYseH)

209 Another point to be aware of is the co-opting of the language of epidemiology as a means of coercing public policy. I am usually leery of the words "crisis" and "epidemic" when applied to societal behaviors. The.CDC has become weaponized by activists.

"opioid crisis:"
"an epidemic of gun violence"
etc.

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:49 PM (mvenn)

210 "opioid crisis:"
"an epidemic of gun violence"
etc.
Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:49 PM (mvenn)

"the heartbreak of psoriasis"

Posted by: Pug Mahon at April 28, 2019 01:50 PM (n6eEP)

211 206 I once got an error message that was so cryptic that I memorized it.

"The object referenced does not reference the instance of an object."

Pure poetry.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at April 28, 2019 01:47 PM (1ISKN)


"An unexpected error has occurred."

As opposed to the expected errors from Microsoft software, presumably.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 01:51 PM (plMK3)

212 "Drug Overdose Deaths Involving Selected Drugs, 2009-2016 - Involving medications" (purple line on graph)
includes over the counter medications ( a change) and not just prescription medicines and not just opiods?

No shit sherlock. You are a genius Josh Bloom!

Posted by: Undocumented at April 28, 2019 01:51 PM (iQKgg)

213 I still think "street" versions of pain killers count as opioids.

Posted by: Blago at April 28, 2019 01:34 PM (UfkIY)

Of course they do, and I don't think that is an issue.

But I want to see the breakdown of opioid ODs between street junkies who use fentanyl and heroin depending on what they can get, and soccer mom who ODs on her Vicodin prescription.

Lumping them together makes it very easy to demonize opioids without understanding the issue.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:52 PM (wYseH)

214 I had a pain, terrible pain, the Doc said it was epidemiologyitis and I should lay off girls for a while.

I said, I do, I do.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 01:52 PM (lkl+P)

215 208It's spelled "Jews."

"Joos" is used ironically.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:48 PM (wYseH)

Aren't you the one who started that "Joo" shit?

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:53 PM (mpXpK)

216 Muldoon - not poetic, not funny, but perfect and important.


That "gun violence epidemic", especially, intrigues me. Didn't know doing a hit on a rival gang (most "gun violence"), knocking over a liquor store, or shooting up your local synagogue was communicable behavior.


Must have been that education that lacked any references to intersectionality, white science, under-development of the 3rd World by the West, and gender studies that is hampering my reasoning ability.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 01:53 PM (QDnY+)

217 Also, just a small not to pick: opiates and opioids are different classes of drugs.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 01:54 PM (YCuAg)

218 Opie dopie

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 01:55 PM (lkl+P)

219 Well Opie is a dope. And a left wing one at that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 28, 2019 01:56 PM (Y+V3r)

220 Okie Dokie

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 01:57 PM (lkl+P)

221 Muldoon - not poetic, not funny, but perfect and important


*******

I'm not JUST a pretty face.

Posted by: Muldoon at April 28, 2019 01:58 PM (mvenn)

222 Speaking of the Joos (eternal and otherwise), some Israeli paper did a hilarious cartoon mocking the NYT for its little Der Sturmer imitation this past week.


Dershowitz of course is furious and is demanding an investigation, not just an apology/explanation, from the NYT. Watching Dersh on this is sort of sad, because it reminds one how clueless he remains about the bigger picture.


Alan, the NYT and every other media source you have regarded as important or even good your entire life, and the people in them, and the people they appeal to, have morphed beyond recognition, and now in many respects are as repugnant to you as that odious cartoon this week. A dramatic case of self-identification inertia and social pressure blinding a brilliant mind to his current reality.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 28, 2019 01:58 PM (QDnY+)

223 My neighbors across the street appear to be having a garage sale. They have stuff spread out all over their driveway, but there are no signs.

Meh. I don't see any books or old vintage magazines, which are the only things I'd be interested in. And I don't have any more room for those anyway.

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 01:59 PM (sdi6R)

224 >>I don't see any books or old vintage magazines,


Nothing like Vintage Hustlers.

Beaver Hunt for pennies on the dollar!

Posted by: garrett at April 28, 2019 02:00 PM (fuhxv)

225 I'm 100% with OP on this. I am suspicious of everything that comes out of the media and gov's mouth. This crusade has seemed odd from inception.

I know they want to take pain pills away from people that need it. It's just the kind of shit they do. After taking all other options away first.

Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:00 PM (uEbPt)

226 The other thing that bothers me is this nonsense that drug use/addiction is a
disease. It may act like a disease in some ways and it may require
outside treatment or intervention BUT IT IS NOT A F*CKING DISEASE.

The
road this leads down is "stealing" is a disease, "raping" is a disease,
"pedophilia" is a disease. And as usual they are using the young and
dumb, and people who are really suffering to push it.

Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:01 PM (uEbPt)

227 Are you talking about the cartoon of Trump leading Netanyahu, as a dog, on a leash?

You would think Dershowitz would figure it out.
Alan, are you waiting for them to put a star on your shoulder?

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 02:01 PM (lkl+P)

228 What am I, a schmuck on wheels?
Oh it's Sunday.

Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:02 PM (uEbPt)

229 But I want to see the breakdown of opioid ODs between street junkies who use fentanyl and heroin depending on what they can get, and soccer mom who ODs on her Vicodin prescription.

Lumping them together makes it very easy to demonize opioids without understanding the issue.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 28, 2019 01:52 PM (wYseH)


Exactly. It's a classic leftist maneuver: make some sympathetic character the face of the movement, and let the totally unsympathetic draft on that character. That's why they never mention inner city in connection with gun violence, or the Folsom Street Fair in connection with homosexuality.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 02:05 PM (plMK3)

230 225
I know they want to take pain pills away from people that need it. It's just the kind of shit they do. After taking all other options away first.
Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:00 PM (uEbPt)


Send grandma home and give her a pain pill.

Ha! Psyche!

Posted by: B. Hussein O. at April 28, 2019 02:06 PM (sdi6R)

231 Are you talking about the cartoon of Trump leading Netanyahu, as a dog, on a leash?
Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 02:01 PM


Actually, the imagery is a blind Trump being led by his seeing-eye dog.

Posted by: Chuck C at April 28, 2019 02:06 PM (zCabI)

232 227 read a few articles on that, Leftist Anti-Semitism coming out in the open.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 02:06 PM (BbGew)

233 The other thing that bothers me is this nonsense that drug use/addiction is a disease. It may act like a disease in some ways and it may require outside treatment or intervention BUT IT IS NOT A F*CKING DISEASE.

The road this leads down is "stealing" is a disease, "raping" is a disease, "pedophilia" is a disease. And as usual they are using the young and dumb, and people who are really suffering to push it.
Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:01 PM (uEbPt)


Cue the classic line from a British magistrate, on being told that the accused suffered from the disease of kleptomania: "That is just the disease I am here to cure."

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at April 28, 2019 02:06 PM (plMK3)

234 231 More exactly a Jewish Trump being lead by a Jewish seeing eye dog tied by a Jewish leash.

Not too much visualization I hope.

Posted by: Skip at April 28, 2019 02:08 PM (BbGew)

235 I and the Corgis are awaiting some serious sh*t that smells like dog ass X 100 with a hint of catnip....Oh we have those LSD, Psylocybin peyote and toad lickin' exudate bufo bufoes.


all natural and coming back to a neighbourhood near you.....non toxic TOO.

Posted by: saf at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (5IHGB)

236 CBD: I think maybe what you should say is that most people taking opioids for pain aren't trying to get high unlike others (abusers).

That's cause most of us technically ARE addicts. Yes me. I take a synthetic; Tramadol which is a step above some NSAID's in pain relief. But it's still addictive in that I am inured to it to the point where my body will react if the drug is taken away. Oh they're not train spotting type reactions but they are not any fun and can be very debilitating. I've not tried to get completely off (because the docs don't want to give me the stronger stuff as a substitute [they have protocols they have to follow or the DEA comes and yanks their license to practice])

But I've tried to cut back just to see what it's like. And along with the increased pain I get the jitters, twitches and cramps and big time anxiety flashes. Not. Fun.

So I am an addict. I just don't take the pain pills to get high. I take them to be normal, otherwise the pain is enough to immobilize me.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (ACz8/)

237 Happy Easter to all my Eastern Orthodox friends!

Posted by: Archer at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (vzk+c)

238 Holy fuck.

I tend to write off accusations of antisemitism in pop culture as being needlessly exaggerated, but that's a very ugly look for the NYT. Uglier even than the homophobic portrayals of Trump and Putin they saw fit to run.

Blind Trump in a yarmulke being led by weasel-like Netanyahu dog with a Star of David?

Damn, guys.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (YCuAg)

239 Aren't you the one who started that "Joo" shit?


Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:53 PM (mpXpK)
---
How about some hypotheticals?

Imagine a guy named Mohammed Deathtoamerica Jihadi opens fire on an American venue, screaming "Death to America!" wearing a t-shirt reading "Death to America Jihad!" and has a facebook page that has nothing but Death to America Jihad" written on it - except for his pledge of allegiance to ISIS.

His motive will immediately be an impenetrable mystery, right?

Now imagine some illegal immigrants arrive in a town and people start getting sick. No one will know who it was. The disease just sort of showed up. Officials will bend over backwards to hide who it was and where they came from.

Third scenario is what we're seeing right now, which is when measels popped up we have precision-targeted origin within days. They ran this thing to ground hard, didn't they, and wanted everyone to know the exact population and origin country of the infection.

Because it was Da Jooz! Israeli Jooz.

The only foreign group you can instantly name and blame for something, amirite?

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 02:10 PM (cfSRQ)

240 IIRC, it's budget season. Remember NASA's scams-for-budget-dollars?
Now every local fire department is demanding lotsa extra $$--just like DEA--for no reason, or maybe it's Orange Man Bad or Global Warming.
The real addiction here? Tax money.

Posted by: dad29 at April 28, 2019 02:10 PM (7Kti7)

241 Control the border(s) or control nothing.

Posted by: klaftern at April 28, 2019 02:11 PM (RuIsu)

242 "The other thing that bothers me is this nonsense that drug use/addiction is a

disease"


The whole concept of addiction is a myth. It's become widely accepted because people don't want to admit to their own weaknesses, like lack of self control. It's billion dollar industry based on no medical evidence.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 28, 2019 02:13 PM (4thlk)

243
Third scenario is what we're seeing right now, which is when measels popped up we have precision-targeted origin within days. They ran this thing to ground hard, didn't they, and wanted everyone to know the exact population and origin country of the infection.

Because it was Da Jooz! Israeli Jooz.

The only foreign group you can instantly name and blame for something, amirite?
Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 02:10 PM (cfSRQ)

And yet.....plenty, if not most secular Jewish-Americans have no problem with this. They are well-represented in this same media.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 28, 2019 02:13 PM (NFEMn)

244 98 Anyone saying this isn't an issue in rural America has never been to rural America.

In Michigan I personally know two doctors who ran pill mills and handed this stuff out like crazy.

I think they're overcorrecting (as usual) but it has been a major issue for rural areas especially.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 12:58 PM (cfSRQ)

This!

I live in a rural area. Huge problem here in Missouri.

Posted by: Tami at April 28, 2019 02:14 PM (cF8AT)

245 >>>Damn, guys.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (YCuAg)
-------------------

Could it be more blatant?

I thought the dog part was meant to look like a dachshund. Another dig at Netanyahu.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 28, 2019 02:14 PM (lkl+P)

246 238
Blind Trump in a yarmulke being led by weasel-like Netanyahu dog with a Star of David?

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 28, 2019 02:09 PM (YCuAg)


I read a comment at another site: Imagine a cartoon with a dog with Khomeini's face leading Ilhan Omar. Think the Times would run that?

Posted by: rickl at April 28, 2019 02:14 PM (sdi6R)

247 The real addiction here? Tax money.
Posted by: dad29 at April 28, 2019 02:10 PM (7Kti7)

-------------

Borrowed money.

Posted by: Undocumented at April 28, 2019 02:16 PM (iQKgg)

248 Anyone saying this isn't an issue in rural America has never been to rural America.

In Michigan I personally know two doctors who ran pill mills and handed this stuff out like crazy.

I think they're overcorrecting (as usual) but it has been a major issue for rural areas especially.

Posted by: A.H. Lloyd at April 28, 2019 12:58 PM (cfSRQ)

This!

I live in a rural area. Huge problem here in Missouri.
Posted by: Tami at April 28, 2019 02:14 PM (cF8AT)

It's a problem EVERYWHERE--the cities, the wealthier suburbs and the rural areas.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 28, 2019 02:16 PM (NFEMn)

249 Nood. The NYT cartoon.

Posted by: Chuck C at April 28, 2019 02:17 PM (zCabI)

250 Aren't you the one who started that "Joo" shit?
Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 01:53 PM (mpXpK)

Probably J.J. Sefton. Being a member of the tribe he was free to say it and everyone take it as meant as a typical AoSHQ snark word.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at April 28, 2019 02:17 PM (ACz8/)

251 Nood

Posted by: Vic at April 28, 2019 02:19 PM (mpXpK)

252
Send grandma home and give her a pain pill.

Ha! Psyche!

Posted by: B. Hussein O. at April 28, 2019 02:06 PM (sdi6R)


YEP! Got it in one.

Posted by: ... at April 28, 2019 02:25 PM (uEbPt)

253 47 Expanding on my post:

The pill mills are out of business. The MDs who ran those got their tickets pulled. You can't DO that today without getting to know a cop up close & personal real fast.

(cough! a disproportionately large number of the pill pushing docs were FMGs-- foreign medical school graduates. cough!)

The drug companies have modified oxys & hydromorphine so that it's now much harder to turn them into an injectable form.

It all leads back to Mexico now.

One other thing: The cartels also put Walter White out of business. The concept of an industrial-size, big time meth lab within the U.S. is also quaint.

Posted by: mnw at April 28, 2019 02:34 PM (Cssks)

254 Most heroin addicts didn't start off with a doctor approved prescription, they just did pills at a party. I've seen the numbers as skewed as 96/4 as to the percentages of addicts that did casual drugs at parties vs ones who had an actual doctor's precription.

Posted by: Mollo at April 29, 2019 01:17 AM (s4JnT)

255 2 weeks ago I broke a couple of ribs when I stepped in a sidewalk hole left unfilled due to (of course) budget shortfalls...so it's my fault b/c I'm just not paying enough taxes. Anyway broken ribs are very painful and I was given a 7 day prescription for Tramadol, supposedly an addictive narcotic. They didn't tell me that I had to take it with 2 shots of whiskey to activate it. Three Advil works a lot better.

Posted by: liz953 at April 29, 2019 09:37 AM (frv51)

256 In Utah there is a cottage industry that young Mormons have.
They visit sick elderly Mormons, go to the bathroom and check the medicine chest.
They steal SOME of any opiods they find and sell them to people whose doctors have cut them off so they've turned to the streets.
There was a TV special about what a great way it is to make a living without "really" hurting anyone.
SCUM.

Posted by: Nan Gladden at April 29, 2019 02:24 PM (60yhg)

257 As someone who has been to prison, once, for 2 years, I found it shocking how many prisoners get out and are dead within weeks. Fentanyl is 5x stronger than heroin from what I understand. They cut it to hell but its junkies doing the cutting and hot spots remain. Junkies released from prison also forget that they lack tolerance and are quick to inject grams at a time, because that's what they remember.

Regardless, there's always been addicts and there always will be. The worst of the addicts will kill themselves. Heroin leads to death. Fentanyl leads to it faster is all.

Posted by: Mark at April 29, 2019 11:39 PM (Ufqvy)

258 Whats really disturbing is the Suboxone epidemic. I tried Suboxone once and found it quite like heroin. Yet its perfectly acceptable and handed out to junkies because it makes one sick when they use heroin. It's a nasty, hard drug, and its quite obvious when someone is on it.

Posted by: Mark at April 29, 2019 11:45 PM (Ufqvy)

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