Obamacare Going Back to Supreme Court, Now That Lower Court Has Ruled It Unconstititional

Eighteen Republican states attorneys general and two Republican governors sued to strike down Obamacare, arguing that the original bullshit ruling upholding it did so by claiming that the tax power was broad, and that the individual mandate could be construed, sort of, as a tax, and ergo, Obamacare was a tax bill and was presumptively constitutional.

But since then, Congress passed, and President Trump signed, a law eliminating the tax that enforced the individual mandate -- the individual mandate still existed, in theory, but there was no penalty for ignoring it.

Thereby making Obamacare no longer a tax bill, and thereby stealing away Chief Justice Roberts' entire (phony) rationale for claiming an unconstitutional bill was unconstitutional.

A Texas federal judge agreed with this argument and voided Obamacare as unconstitutional.

"In some ways, the question before the Court involves the intent of both the 2010 and 2017 Congresses," O'Connor wrote in his 55-page decision. "The former enacted the ACA. The latter sawed off the last leg it stood on."

That decision is here.

Resolution of these claims rests at the intersection of the ACA, the Supreme Court's decision in NFIB, and the TCJA. In NFIB, the Supreme Court held the Individual Mandate was unconstitutional under the Interstate Commerce Clause but could fairly be read as an exercise of Congress's Tax Power because it triggered a tax. The TCJA eliminated that tax. The Supreme Court's reasoning in NFIB--buttressed by other binding precedent and plain text --thus compels the conclusion that the Individual Mandate may no longer be upheld under the Tax Power. And because the Individual Mandate continues to mandate the purchase of health insurance, it remains unsustainable under the Interstate Commerce Clause--as the Supreme Court already held.
Finally, Congress stated many times unequivocally--through enacted text signed by the President--that the Individual Mandate is "essential" to the ACA. And this essentiality, the ACA's text makes clear, means the mandate must work "together with the other provisions" for the Act to function as intended. All nine Justices to review the ACA acknowledged this text and Congress's manifest intent to establish the Individual Mandate as the ACA's "essential" provision. The current and previous Administrations have recognized that, too. Because rewriting the ACA without its "essential" feature is beyond the power of an Article III court, the Court thus adheres to Congress's textually expressed intent and binding Supreme Court precedent to find the Individual Mandate is inseverable from the ACA’s remaining provisions.

So, the Individual Mandate was "essential" to Obamacare and, being essential to it, the entire Obamacare law falls if this essential, non-severable part of it is struck down. As Roberts (and the rest of the Court) already ruled that there was no part of the Constitution (including the Interstate Commerce Clause) giving Congress such a huge power to simply order people to buy insurance, except for the power of taxation, the idea that the Individual Mandate was a kind of tax was the only justification for this mandate. Now that that's gone, there is no justification for Congress ordering Americans to make purchases, and that section of Obamacare is voided as unconstitutional, and because that part of Obamacare was "essential" to its function in total, the whole law falls.

That ruling, though, did not come with an injunction ordering the federal government and states to stop administering Obamacare. Only leftwing judges, usually from Hawaii, order the rest of the country to obey their decisions without further review.

The ruling is on the books, but will not be enforced until the Supreme Court agrees with it.

The problem, of course, is Roberts. Roberts invented a farcical excuse to rule the unconstitutional law constitutional -- changing his vote from one to strike down the unconstitutional law to one to preserve it after he got pressure from the Democrat media -- and if he was willing to engage in fantasy rule-making once to save Obamacare there's not much to discourage him from doing so again.

Sure, he already ruled that no other power but the taxation power could uphold Obamacare, but wait for the Democrat media campaign to start working on this pussy.

The Affordable Care Act -- and the multitude of regulations, taxes and benefits that come with it -- once again could be on the road to the Supreme Court after a Texas judge ruled the law unconstitutional.
The surprise decision Friday already has both sides of the debate posturing, with Democrats claiming the ruling is but a hiccup and Republicans suggesting this could be their chance, at last, to abolish the law -- which remains largely in place despite President Trump’s past claims to the contrary.
A Supreme Court ruling in their favor would be Republicans' only shot at overturning the law in the foreseeable future, with Democrats taking control of the House in January...

"A confirming Supreme Court Decision will lead to GREAT HealthCare results for Americans," Trump tweeted Monday.

[tweet follows]
@realDonaldTrump
The DEDUCTIBLE which comes with ObamaCare is so high that it is practically not even useable! Hurts families badly. We have a chance, working with the Democrats, to deliver great HealthCare! A confirming Supreme Court Decision will lead to GREAT HealthCare results for Americans!

If the court were to overturn the law, it would leave the Trump administration and a divided Congress in a remarkably difficult situation – scrambling to come up with an alternative that has eluded the law’s critics in Washington ever since its passage in 2010.
"We have a chance, working with the Democrats, to deliver great HealthCare!" Trump claimed.

Chuck Schumer promised to fight the court's ruling "tooth and nail," and will fight for a bill already pushed by super-conservative Joe Machin (thanks, West Virginia!) to permit Democrats in Congress to intervene in the lawsuit as interested third-parties.

Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin III introduced a resolution back in July that would authorize the legal counsel of the Senate to take part in the legal proceedings against Texas and the other states involved, including Manchin's home state of West Virginia.
It became a key issue for Manchin in part because his 2018 challenger was the state's GOP attorney general.
"This ruling is just plain wrong," Manchin said in a statement issued Friday night. "I look forward to its appeal to a higher court, and I intend to fight to ensure that the Senate has an opportunity to intervene to defend these critical health safeguards."
Democrats tried and failed to force a vote on the Manchin proposal in August, and a Manchin unanimous consent request to call up and pass the measure Sept. 5 faced objection.

All that bill would do is allow Senate Democrats to file their own brief in the case and that kind of thing.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at 12:18 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Hi

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:17 PM (oGNNA)

3
Hey, this is weird-looking.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:18 PM (oGNNA)

4
I didn't get censored at #2. It's just all weird and grey-looking.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:18 PM (oGNNA)

5
Fixed!

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:18 PM (oGNNA)

6 Manchin. pfff. What is WRONG WITH WEST VIRGINIA!?!?

Posted by: LASue at December 17, 2018 12:19 PM (XROPS)

7 7!

Posted by: LASue at December 17, 2018 12:20 PM (XROPS)

8 I think you have accurately described Roberts. Curse his fucking name.

I look forward to more Supreme Idiocy.

Posted by: nip at December 17, 2018 12:20 PM (DfGpI)

9 Eh, the world is full of bullshit rationales and Roberts will find one.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at December 17, 2018 12:20 PM (RD7QR)

10 Somewhere, some Dem operative is pulling out an envelope containing the pictures that has Roberts so worried.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 17, 2018 12:20 PM (0tfLf)

11 It is so legal, because reasons.

Posted by: Judge Don Ho at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (TpAxy)

12 Roberts is going to have to invent something even more absurd to overturn this ruling.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

13 Roberts is going to have to invent something even more absurd to overturn this ruling.

He will

Posted by: It's me donna at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (O2RFr)

14 Falls into the penumbra of the Hawaii clause! Overruled! Ribbit!

Posted by: Chief Justice Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (RD7QR)

15 If I had to wager money on it right now, I'd bet that the Supreme Court disagrees with the severability analysis and thus upholds Obamacare for the most part.

I'm not particularly invested in the Court's ruling one way or another though. The GOP are cowards who could have addressed this, but decided not to do so. The Court isn't going to save us from the GOP.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (ppBhU)

16

This is just the kick in the butt the Dems need to go whole hog Medicare for all.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (aKsyK)

17 It's a Tax!

Posted by: Kavanaugh with Roberts hand up his ass at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (88+cf)

18 I wash my hands of this.

Posted by: John Iscariot Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (t2P6q)

19 Roberts is such a sleezeball.

Whatever it is, he will do it in order to cram this unconstitutional law passed by only one party down the plebe's throats.

Why worry about it? He (along with Congress) doesn't have to have Obamacare. Just us.

Posted by: Charlotte the sailor at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (lGLBx)

20 Coverage of PreExisting conditions requires mandatory coverage to work. Otherwise there is no money to pay the claims.

I despise the Republicans that believe in the free lunch money tree, even Trump on this issue.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 17, 2018 12:23 PM (i82aL)

21 It's still a tax.
John Roberts who stays bought

Posted by: steevy at December 17, 2018 12:23 PM (BXMxN)

22 Wanna make a bet that parts of Obamacare suddenly become severable?

And I'm going to lay dollars to donuts it's going to come from Neil "Arbitrary and Capricious" Gorsuch.

What a clown show.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:23 PM (qxq6t)

23 6 Manchin. pfff. What is WRONG WITH WEST VIRGINIA!?!?

Mountain Dew. It starts with rotting the teeth, it gets worse.

Posted by: Pseudo Authority at December 17, 2018 12:23 PM (87pBM)

24 18 I wash my hands of this.
Posted by: John Iscariot Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:22 PM (t2P6q)

Julia "Errin' " Crockovich.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (/9p9e)

25 And when everyone has Medicare, then nobody will have Medicare.

Posted by: Syndrome at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (9rXxD)

26 Don't save government health care, abolish it.

I don't want some clock punching nihilist with a comb over deciding my health care choices, and neither do you.

All they do is take the money, siphon off a vig, and pay the medical community after you get short changed.

Get some competition in to the business.

And ban the John Edwards types of vexing litigants.

Watch healthcare come back.

Posted by: navybrat, on a mission from Odin at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (w7KSn)

27 The GOP are cowards who could have addressed this, but decided not to do so. The Court isn't going to save us from the GOP.

I see McCain's bony middle finger sticking up from the grave.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (i82aL)

28
If SCOTUS punts on this, then the lower court ruling stands and ergo it is repealed, no?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (/9p9e)

29 I'm a soft supporter of overturning Obamacare!

(Because I'm not sure what I'll be allowed to support tomorrow.)

Posted by: The Morning Dolt at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (76Nxz)

30 Justice Roberts is busy working hard on a way to overturn this ruling

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (39g3+)

31 So Trump gets the Dims to argue that Judges are not political last week, then this week they are. He is truly the master.

Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (jsWA8)

32 25 And when everyone has Medicare, then nobody will have Medicare.
Posted by: Syndrome at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (9rXxD)

Or decent health care.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (RD7QR)

33 12 Roberts is going to have to invent something even more absurd to overturn this ruling.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (/tuJf)
--------

Super easy, barely an inconvenience.

Posted by: WisRich at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (G0vdT)

34 ugh

One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law

Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

35 34 ugh

One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law
Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

The Examiner is Hot Air without fat fatsos.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (/9p9e)

36 Ace-
bad link

Posted by: pep at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (TpAxy)

37 Roberts will save the day, again, for Democrats. Especially now with his personal asswipe, Kavaugh, they will team up with liberals to piss on the republic.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (VpIIl)

38 This morning on AM 560, they talked to C Steven Tucker who is a health insurance broker and works a lot with Barry Care. He doesn't think the Supreme Court will reverse itself on its previous ruling and we'll be stuck with Barry Care.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (OLCnA)

39 The Fifth Circuit in New Orleans is next, before SCOTUS. If they uphold TX Judge, then it goes to Judas Roberts

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (HrSJb)

40
The deductibles are so high that only a fool or someone with an expensive pre-existing condition would buy it.

The only answer is 'Medicare for All'. Based on a 100% surcharge on your taxes. Would add another 3 trillion or so in revenue and we could all have the greatest 3rd world medical care often available.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (jYje5)

41 If SCOTUS punts on this, then the lower court ruling stands and ergo it is repealed, no?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (/9p9e)
------
Yeah, that's not going to happen. All they need is four justices to take up the case. The four libs won't hesitate one minute.

Posted by: WisRich at December 17, 2018 12:27 PM (G0vdT)

42 33 12 Roberts is going to have to invent something even more absurd to overturn this ruling.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (/tuJf)
--------

Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
Posted by: WisRich at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (G0vdT)

Sophistry is TIGHT!

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:27 PM (NgKpN)

43
34 ugh

One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law

Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

Nothing a man says before the word "but" really matters.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (veoSD)

44 Marcus that is depressing. If Kav shivs us after all the Dems did to him and his family, then what is the point on Judges?

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (HrSJb)

45 Assault on the rule of law only when laws Democrats like are struck down.The one way rule.

Posted by: steevy at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (BXMxN)

46
So if the ACA is upheld in SCOTUS but the mandate stays gone...what happens? Premiums skyrocket even more, right?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (oGNNA)

47 Roberts is going to have to invent something even more absurd to overturn this ruling.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

Challenge.....ACCEPTED!

Posted by: Judge Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (TpAxy)

48 >>One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

Klein is a dishonest jerk. He's been one for a long, long time.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (/tuJf)

49 Severability will be what the debate is over. Sure, the mandate is dead, they'll say. But, we can sever that from the rest of the law.

By the time it gets to SCOTUS, RBG might have shed her mortal coil.

Posted by: WOPR at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (J70i0)

50 40
The deductibles are so high that only a fool or someone with an expensive pre-existing condition would buy it.

The only answer is 'Medicare for All'. Based on a 100% surcharge on your taxes. Would add another 3 trillion or so in revenue and we could all have the greatest 3rd world medical care often available.
Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (jYje5)

And third world doctors, if the British system is any guide.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (RD7QR)

51 Does the Supreme Court get 3-3.5 million unique hits per month?

Yeh...didn't think so.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (cqNba)

52 @20

I have already discussed how you can tackle PreExisiting conditions.

1. Health Insurers must have an option to buy up for preexisting conditions on all plans that they offer.

2. Insurees must pay for this buy up.

3. The buy up can be a set fee, percentage or whatever the fuck is negotiated by the dipsticks in congress, but it has to be reasonable for both the Insurance companies and the insured.

Otherwise the Donsks are going to Demogague this shit to victory in a manner that the GOP demagoged getting rid of Obamacare to victory.

Except the Donks will ram their policy preferences through whereas the GOP being the useless pieces of shit they are bukaked all over themselves.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (qxq6t)

53 So if the ACA is upheld in SCOTUS but the mandate stays gone...what happens? Premiums skyrocket even more, right?
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (oGNNA)

Pretty much.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (wCmLp)

54 The only answer is 'Medicare for All'. Based on a 100% surcharge on your taxes. Would add another 3 trillion or so in revenue and we could all have the greatest 3rd world medical care often available.
Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 12:26 PM (jYje5)

People can then run up to Canada for elective treatments, since their wait times will be a few years shorter.

Posted by: Roy at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (9rXxD)

55 Nothing a man says before the word "but" really matters.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (veoSD)

Yup...

My Mom's only 'apologies' are 'I'm sorry but'...

Which is an explanation, not an apology.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (NgKpN)

56 42. Correct. Roberts would have to re-implement the Tax, that was thrown out by the Tax Cuts.
Roberts is a whore to the Corporations, and in 2009 protected the Insurance Industry.

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (HrSJb)

57
And third world doctors, if the British system is any guide.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (RD7QR)

Witch doctors would that be?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (veoSD)

58 Hummm. Wondering if Trumpybear foresaw this.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (d6PIl)

59 10, it is Robert's murky adoption of Irish kids via Latin America that is supposedly the blackmail issue here.

Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (ROzyM)

60 So if the ACA is upheld in SCOTUS but the mandate stays gone...what happens? Premiums skyrocket even more, right?
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (oGNNA)
-----

The Dem's get what they always wanted. The Gov't has to bail out the insurance companies by taking them over.

Gov't run healthcare, here we come.

Posted by: WisRich at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (G0vdT)

61 One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law

Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

The goofy thing is that every criticism he makes about the ruling could be correct, but that wouldn't make it an assault on the rule of law. Most legal arguments have weaknesses or counterarguments. They get resolved by courts. Pressing non-frivolous arguments in court is not an assault on the law. The opposite really.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (ppBhU)

62 46
So if the ACA is upheld in SCOTUS but the mandate stays gone...what happens? Premiums skyrocket even more, right?
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:28 PM (oGNNA)

If the mandate is necessary for the law does that mean it is necessary for the accompanying bureaucracy and all the rules that go with it?

This shit is nuts. No better time for a deregulation of insurance and an abolition of the de facto state run monopolies.

HHS needs to step up to the plate and utilize the "as the administrator sees fit" rule that SCOAMF put into this and gut the fucking thing from within.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (/9p9e)

63 One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law

Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

It's not that they're cowards... they're opportunists. Why support something that you've pushed for years, when you can reverse course at the last moment and hold it hostage for a sweet payoff?

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (wCmLp)

64 I read Kavanaugh's reasoning in "Gee". He completely took it up the squeakhole and agreed with Roberts, not the originalists. I then went back and looked u some of his appeals court reasoning that went to SCOTUS, including the Second Amendment. I'm calling it now, Kavanaugh will bend the originalist point of view over a barrel like Liberace at a Homo Carnival.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (VpIIl)

65 This whole 'So many will suffer' argument sort of reminds me of the impact on certain incomes and lifestyles when slavery was abolished.

Probably a greater percentage of Americans were negatively effected by that decision than any impact that the death of Obamacare will bring.

But, it was the morally right, thing to do.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (cqNba)

66 59 10, it is Robert's murky adoption of Irish kids via Latin America that is supposedly the blackmail issue here.
Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (ROzyM)

Where did this first appear? I know there is a rumor mill but I never saw the origins.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (/9p9e)

67
Witch doctors would that be?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur

Yes

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (aKsyK)

68 Wait, you thought I said it was constitutional because it was a tax?

No no no, what I said was, it was constitutional because it was NOT a tax.

Clean out your ears!

Posted by: John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:32 PM (DuAZ5)

69 The more it is litigated the better.

Posted by: SH at December 17, 2018 12:32 PM (CNm1v)

70 My chemo is $12,513.25 a month. I don't want anyone fucking with my insurance now.

Posted by: CSMBigBird at December 17, 2018 12:32 PM (jsWA8)

71 Earl Warren Roberts, protecting the Elites

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:32 PM (HrSJb)

72 HHS needs to step up to the plate and utilize the "as the administrator sees fit" rule that SCOAMF put into this and gut the fucking thing from within.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (/9p9e)

The problem is that once you do that, the demand for repeal goes away, and the law sits there on the books until the day another Dem gets elected and decides that they want to impose even worse regulations.

One thing that strikes me about Trump is that he seems hostile to the notion of the imperial presidency. He doesn't want to use some workaround to fix this shit, he wants Congress to do their damn jobs and fix it. Same thing with immigration.

Which is why they hate him.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 17, 2018 12:33 PM (wCmLp)

73 After the IRS scandal, the FBI scandal, the NSA scandal, et al, if you think that government controlled health care won't be weaponized in order to make your own personal life shorter (if you don't fall in their guidelines and vote the way they want), then I have a big woman with an SEIU pin on her smock and a smile on her face, holding a syringe as you bend over pantless, for you.

Posted by: navybrat, on a mission from Odin at December 17, 2018 12:33 PM (w7KSn)

74 Count me in with previous commenter -

Kagan, Sotomayor, Ginsburg, and Breyer to retain. Thomas and Alito to strike down. Kav to follow Roberts. Roberts to do whatever makes The Supremes more popular in the Court of Public Opinion.

The wild card is Gorsuch. He's a "The Law is the Law" kinda' guy. Law could be Jews Wear Gold Stars - and Gorsuch wouldn't care. The Law is the Law.

I say Gorsuch joins Roberts and the rest. 7-2 to retain ObamaCare.

Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 12:33 PM (rNRoZ)

75 Of all places, the WSJ Editorial page slammed this today. It's the biggest piece of shit sophistry I've seen in a long time.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:34 PM (VpIIl)

76 so, here's my obamacare story.....our business was sold, we were let go...too young to retire and be on medicare, not currently working.....cobra was going to be 2k a month....for self, husband, two college age daughters, boys are on their own. we don't qualify financially for reduced rates on aca.....we qualify financially to pay full price which was 1900.00 a month. ended up getting a shared medical coverage for $750 a month..... sadly....it really only covers if something big happens.....but it's something and it's not 2k a month.

see the fairness in the whole thing? i pay taxes that pays for aca....i then have the pleasure of qualifying for a premium of 2k while someone who doesn't pay taxes or very very little....can get that policy for $45 bucks a month. so i'm priced out of what i fund......lovely....i can't afford the affordable care act....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at December 17, 2018 12:34 PM (0O7c5)

77 Single Payor will fix EVERYTHING!

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 17, 2018 12:34 PM (zJ7J0)

78 " the individual mandate still existed, in theory, but there was no penalty for ignoring it."

On my 2017 taxes I paid a $700 penalty for not have health insurance ... Turbo Tax did that ... unless I read it wrong. And that was updated as late as September 2017. It surprised me since I thought that penalty/tax (fee to help illegals with free care) ... was eliminated.

Maybe it was eliminated starting 2018? Hope so.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 17, 2018 12:34 PM (Cus5s)

79 >>>Klein is a dishonest jerk. He's been one for a long, long time.

the party is full-up of people who are actually working for Democrats 90% of the time.

The 100 people in the country who give a shit about TWS were suuuuuper butthurt about my article on Friday.

What do they expect? They are Democrats in all but name. They fight us at every turn and fight on behalf of George Soros and Pierre Omidyar.

Why would I be any sadder about TWS shutting down than I would be about Newsweek or The New Republic?

Saboteurs are worse than enemy soldiers. At least enemy soldiers, wearing the proper uniforms, aren't dishonest about which flag they're fighting for.

Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:34 PM (PbpT7)

80 59. Or a Male Lover. Realistically he is a Ivy League Statist, and a Establishment Bushie.
Loves to state his devout Roman Catholic Faith, but upholds pro abortion Obamacare. Separate Church and State

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:36 PM (HrSJb)

81 So the Democrats are using the Cortez designed government where the US Senate and the President don't have to be consulted on new laws?

This should be fun.

After all as Chuck AsshatSchmuck and Nancy reminded the President the other day, Elections have consequences.

And the consequences of the last two elections is the Democrats only control the House of Representatives.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 12:36 PM (37IEG)

82 79. There are no Conservatives in D.C outside of Congress

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:36 PM (HrSJb)

83 >>The 100 people in the country who give a shit about TWS were suuuuuper butthurt about my article on Friday.

Well. You came to chew bubblegum and hurt butts. And you were all out of bubblegum...

So. Fuck them.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 12:37 PM (Q1ZdF)

84
This shit is nuts. No better time for a deregulation of insurance and an abolition of the de facto state run monopolies.

HHS needs to step up to the plate and utilize the "as the
administrator sees fit" rule that SCOAMF put into this and gut the
fucking thing from within.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:30 PM (/9p9e)

====
Ay-freaking-men. Congress certainly isn't going to clean up its own mess, which the courts are making even worse. We have five or six years to let the free market do what it can if HHS gets cracking. What does anyone know about Alex Azar?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:37 PM (oGNNA)

85 I caught a link where that right down the middle Texas Tribune mocked the lawsuit when it was filed in August 2018. Ha!

Posted by: DanMan at December 17, 2018 12:37 PM (XTiHL)

86 Manchin has gone full lefty on Judges etc.. Trump wins WVA by 30, but the WV Gop gets behinds a Jersey carpetbagger to run against him

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:38 PM (HrSJb)

87 I tried to have a reasonable argument with a friend about the TWS closure last week. My basic premise was they are essentially Judas on Clozapine. His was it was a blow to the republic. I almost beat him to death for being an idiot

Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:38 PM (VpIIl)

88 My husband's company's health insurance costs just went up 29%.

I can't even begin to express how I hate our shitweasel Betters. Every single member of Congress, and every president, should have to pay for their own health insurance. Better yet, let them go to the VA for their healthcare.

The fact that Barry Hussein Disaster will have the best healthcare in the world for the rest of his miserable life, sets my hair on fire.

Grrrr.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 12:38 PM (ptqGC)

89
If SCOTUS punts on this, then the lower court ruling stands and ergo it is repealed, no?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 17, 2018 12:24 PM (/9p9e)

Yes. We should be talking of the appeals process now instead of the SC. A lot of obstacles ahead for this ruling before Roberts even considers taking it.

And yes, the SC could very well punt this if it gets that far.

Posted by: Sooner at December 17, 2018 12:38 PM (Fs5vw)

90 Now that that's gone, there is no justification for Congress ordering Americans to make purchases, and that section of Obamacare is voided as unconstitutional, and because that part of Obamacare was "essential" to its function in total, the whole law falls.

------

The obvious route here is for the left and Roberts to claim the repeal of the tax redefined the mandate as not essential to Obamacare.

Posted by: MAGA at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (VAR2Y)

91 but how will Obama afford his AZT?

Posted by: x at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (nFwvY)

92 Congress fucked up my health insurance when they passed BammyCare. I have no reason to believe they won't do it again.

Posted by: wth at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (HgMAr)

93 I love how Schemer ignores the original SC ruling, even though it was wrong and proclaims this one from TX is wrong.

I am going long popcorn because I think President Trump is quite capable of making the Dems come to the table on health insurance reform.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (qC1Sy)

94 Back to checking out the Penis shadows in the Constitution that will allow me to find another reason Obamacare is legal when we said it wasn't!

Posted by: Chief waaahooo_Justice at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (37IEG)

95 The deductibles are so high that only a fool or someone with an expensive pre-existing condition would buy it.

The only answer is 'Medicare for All'. Based on a 100% surcharge on your taxes. Would add another 3 trillion or so in revenue and we could all have the greatest 3rd world medical care often available.
Posted by: Newest Nic

...............

That's ridiculous.

High deductibles is really good if you plan to stay healthy.

High deductible plans is what Obamacare got rid of! Young people flocked to high deductible plans that had cheap monthly premiums.

Now yer bitching that you can get a plan with high deductibles? I have looked at the O'Care plans.. someone not making a lot of money can actually afford insurance against a catastrophic illness for not a lot of money out of pocket per month on premiums... especially on a Bronze level plan.

There's a lot wrong with O'Care.. but high deductibles ain't it.

Most employers have put their employees on high deductible plans these days..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (so+oy)

96 74. Kav votes to uphold, to take the heat off from Congressional Dems on rape charges.
Sad scenario

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (HrSJb)

97 What we need now is some catastrophe or series of disasters wherein Stevens, Ginsberg, and Kagan all drop dead

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (39g3+)

98 91 but how will Obama afford his AZT?
Posted by: x at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (nFwvY)

Richard Branson can afford to pay for that on his behalf.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (RD7QR)

99 Well, the WSJ Editorial Page seems to have the inside track on the next appeal. They say this judges ruling will and should be struck down, for the children.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (VpIIl)

100 Two Trump Judges upholding Obamacare, kind of takes the mojo from McConnell on Judges

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (HrSJb)

101 73 After the IRS scandal, the FBI scandal, the NSA scandal, et al, if you think that government controlled health care won't be weaponized in order to make your own personal life shorter (if you don't fall in their guidelines and vote the way they want), then I have a big woman with an SEIU pin on her smock and a smile on her face, holding a syringe as you bend over pantless, for you.

Posted by: navybrat, on a mission from Odin at December 17, 2018 12:33 PM (w7KSn)

Very true. It'll be shit like cigarettes, red meat, vaping, owning guns, etc.

Oh you own a gun? No healthcare for you. Someone saw you with a cigarette. No healthcare for you. You get the idea.

Any goofy fad pushed by liberals will immediately translate into you better not being doing X because you'll get your healthcare yanked or curtailed.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (4ErVI)

102 [Roberts invented a farcical excuse to rule the unconstitutional law constitutional -- changing his vote from one to strike down the unconstitutional law to one to preserve it ]

Actually, that is not true. Roberts did not go along with the ABSURD notion of the minority that they could not sever the mandate and therefore had to strike the entire statute. (Talk about judicial activism!) He was willing to strike the Medicaid expansion and the mandate but when told it was all or nothing, he sided with the backup argument of the government that the mandate could be read as a tax -incidentally, something the Senate themselves made clear before they passed the statute to begin with.

I do not see SCOTUS going along with the "it is not severable" nonsense this time around any more than they did previously. However, they could very well rule the mandate is no longer constitutional since it cannot be read as a tax anymore and has already been ruled unconsititutional under the commerce clause. (And thus sever it from the statute which would make the statute an unworkable mess.) If I was to guess offhand, that is what I suspect they will do with two of the most ardent (and in this case, hypocritical!) "it cannot be severed" folks from 2012 no longer on the court.

Posted by: Shawn at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (gqJGk)

103 What we need now is some catastrophe or series of disasters wherein Stevens, Ginsberg, and Kagan all drop dead

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:40 PM (39g3+)

Like a tragic My Pillow accident in a remote hunting lodge?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (ptqGC)

104
Thereby making Obamacare no longer a tax bill, and thereby stealing away Chief Justice Roberts' entire (phony) rationale for claiming an unconstitutional bill was unconstitutional.

Maybe Roberts knew that would be a posion pill a few years down the road and put it there on pupose.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (TAmPV)

105 92 Congress fucked up my health insurance when they passed BammyCare. I have no reason to believe they won't do it again.
Posted by: wth at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (HgMAr)

Yup, expecting them to give power BACK?

Not gonna happen.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (NgKpN)

106 Single payer is the only conservative answer!!!
TOOOT TOOT~!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: GONAH JOLDBERG at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (ZejZP)

107 95. Keep paying those Illinois Taxes Jerry.

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (HrSJb)

108 A late night Washington DC phone call:

"Yes?"

"Justice Roberts? We still have the videotapes. You know what to do."

-click-

Posted by: The Democrats at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (I2/tG)

109 I am the law.

I sentence this Texas judge to five years in the iso-cubes.

Posted by: Judge Dredd Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (XkVXQ)

110 High deductible plans is what Obamacare got rid of! Young people flocked to high deductible plans that had cheap monthly premiums.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (so+oy)

Before Govt came to help, me and both kids had a 10K max out of pocket plan with Anthem. $150/month.

They offer no such shit now in Indiana. Nothing.

Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (349nX)

111 Like a tragic My Pillow accident in a remote hunting lodge?

I'd prefer it was really unabiguous and Biblical, like "devoured by worms" or "the earth opens up and swallows them in front of a crowd."

Something nobody comes up with a conspiracy theory about, or at least no conspiracy theory that gets traction.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:42 PM (39g3+)

112 On Robert's childrens adoption. This is a fair summary of the issue. Irish law forbids foreign adoption of its citizens. Roberts and his wife adopted the toddlers who were born in Ireland apparently. Since Irish law forbids it, then the claim has been that the children came to the U.S. via an adoption agency from Latin America which would have no law.

From heavy dot com
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y89qxk9p

What gave grist to the rumor is that the Obamacare dissent is very curious as if it was written as a majority opinion then Roberts (supposedly as the other four justices were firm in supporting the law) changed his vote on the merits and withdrew from it. The dissenters, either as a oblique insult or due to lack of time if Roberts double crossed them, simply left their opinion as it was.

CJ Burger used to do this kind of crap all the time and ultimately neither the liberals or conservatives on the court liked him for it. Reportedly CJ Fiske did the same in his era. CJ Taney did the same thing as did the failed CJ nominee LBJ crony Fortas. Better just to follow what the law means than try to be CJ Marshall who operated in a different era.

Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (ROzyM)

113
The fact that Barry Hussein Disaster will have
the best healthcare in the world for the rest of his miserable life,
sets my hair on fire.

Grrrr.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 12:38 PM (ptqGC)
When you use the government loaded gun to force everyone to buy your product and make sufficient cash and in kind contributions to the law makers you too can control things like we do!
Till then, haha!

Posted by: Health Insurance Companies at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (37IEG)

114 104. I wish that were true on roberts, but he is a DC statist

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (HrSJb)

115 >>The 100 people in the country who give a shit about TWS were suuuuuper butthurt about my article on Friday.

>>What do they expect? They are Democrats in all but name. They fight us at every turn and fight on behalf of George Soros and Pierre Omidyar.

I think that watching TWS sink beneath the waves terrified them. They have no actual skills save for the ability write sometimes cogent articles. There real "skill" was there presumed knowledge of how things work and there ability to therefore tell us how to behave.

They chose to go all in on NeverTrump and are now trapped. We have seen that they don't know what they are talking about and have no real core principles and we don't want them back and they now realize their new buddies on the left don't really want them either. They used them to bash us but that is the limit of their value.

Now they have nowhere to go.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (/tuJf)

116 On my 2017 taxes I paid a $700 penalty for not have health insurance ... Turbo Tax did that ... unless I read it wrong. And that was updated as late as September 2017. It surprised me since I thought that penalty/tax (fee to help illegals with free care) ... was eliminated.

Maybe it was eliminated starting 2018? Hope so.
Posted by: illiniwek

..............

2019

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (so+oy)

117 Actually, that is not true. Roberts did not go along with the ABSURD notion of the minority that they could not sever the mandate and therefore had to strike the entire statute. (Talk about judicial activism!)

How is it absurd, when the LAW ITSELF does not claim, as required, that it is severable.

Posted by: GMan at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (sxq57)

118 Maybe Roberts knew that would be a posion pill a few years down the road and put it there on pupose.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (TAmPV)

So he allowed Government intrusion, Unconstitutionally, into a large portion of the economy, because he thought it would get overturned later???

I find that very hard to believe.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (NgKpN)

119 Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2018 12:31 PM (VpIIl)

Look, AtC and Brent (carrots in chili) Cochrane both said the decision wasn't the massive ruling. It could be argued either way and was far from showing the tendencies of anyone on the court. So, maybe chill a bit.

Posted by: WOPR at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (J70i0)

120 Roberts said it was up to Congress to end this. Good luck with that.

Posted by: freaked at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (VPJap)

121 I have ruled that Obamacare is Constitutional because the writing in invisible ink on the back of the Constitution says that any law named "The Affordable Care Act" is constitutional regardless of substance!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (Aaxh4)

122 There are plenty of other banana republics down south where you can buy good healthcare.

Posted by: We made Bill Nye wear the dress, happy now? at December 17, 2018 12:44 PM (1L9V9)

123 110. Jerry lives in IL. It is dominated by corrupt Obama loving Blue Cross and Blue Shield.

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:44 PM (HrSJb)

124 Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (/tuJf)

Yup, the very concept of making a living as a 'thought leader' is very UnAmerican IMO.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:44 PM (NgKpN)

125 Before Govt came to help, me and both kids had a 10K max out of pocket plan with Anthem. $150/month.

They offer no such shit now in Indiana. Nothing.
Posted by: B.Eadie

.............

And that right there is one of the biggest problems with O'Care..

Providers end up opting out of whole geographical areas where it is not optimally profitable.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:45 PM (so+oy)

126 One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/i-hate-obamacare-but-texas-judges-
decision-on-its-unconstitutionality-is-an-assault-on-the-rule-of-law
Posted by: ace at December 17, 2018 12:25 PM (PbpT7)

Why is it ONLY ever a "conservative" ruling that's an assault? One might believe these "conservative" writers are nothing of the sort since their views tend to a singular direction...

Posted by: SturmToddler at December 17, 2018 12:45 PM (8D42x)

127 Maybe Roberts knew that would be a posion pill a few years down the road and put it there on pupose.

Nah. He got convinced by his colleagues and legal peers that it would ruin his legacy and forever be a blight on the "Roberts Court." So he ruled in a way that they approved and from now on blighted his court by being a dumbass.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

128 Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before obamacare, for sure. It's funny that people think insurance costs will go down if it gets repealed. The real problem is the fucking scumbag lawyers. They act like their system is some kind of moral good, but it's just a way to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Posted by: Chris M at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (eAZVt)

129 "Something nobody comes up with a conspiracy theory about, or at least no conspiracy theory that gets traction."

Call me

Posted by: SMOD at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (cqNba)

130 We had a 3 options for insurance at our company. The cheapest family coverage was well north of $20k/year. Something like $6k family deductible and $1,200/month premiums. Blue Cross/Blue Shield basic that included co-pays for prescriptions and doctor visits.

I did the HSA option.

Posted by: DanMan at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (XTiHL)

131 There's a lot wrong with O'Care.. but high deductibles ain't it.

Most employers have put their employees on high deductible plans these days..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (so+oy)

-----------------

Absolutely not true. The high out of pocket annual costs are exactly what is wrong with CommieCare, coupled with the high premiums that do not count toward your out of pocket expenditure.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (ffYR/)

132 >>Roberts said it was up to Congress to end this. Good luck with that.

And they did.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (/tuJf)

133 To the tune of O Christmas Tree:

Obamacare
Obamacare
How lawless are thy mandates
Obamacare
Obamacare
How lawless are thy mandates
Criminal in summertime
Criminal in wintertime
Obamacare
Obamacare
How lawless are thy mandates

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (+y/Ru)

134 One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

Wait, so ruling something unconstitutional is... an assault on the rule of law??

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

135 A question I have for the "medicare for all" crowd. If Medicare is the bestest, most stupendous health insurance plan known to modern man, why do people buy Medicare Advantage plans? Why are they wasting their money?

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (hKi6n)

136 I have ruled that Obamacare is Constitutional because the writing in invisible ink on the back of the Constitution says that any law named "The Affordable Care Act" is constitutional regardless of substance!

I have found Obamacare to be legal under Admiralty Law.

To show this, I have signed my decision in blue ink, which is the color of the ocean.

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (I2/tG)

137 Obamacare, at the very least, was accurately named.

A poorly conceived, feckless law that nobody likes and everyone is stuck with.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (Q1ZdF)

138 I have found that once a law has been ruled to be a tax, it cannot be ruled to be unconstitutional regardless of what it actually is or what changes are made to it!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (Aaxh4)

139 Roberts is probably looking for one his hack FISA Judges, to pressure the 5th circuit to dump the TX decision

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (HrSJb)

140 Yeah, well....shut up!

Posted by: Future Roberts Ruling at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (dKTNo)

141 I'm not getting my hopes up, I could see Roberts coming back with something equally stupid.

The more likely scenario is if Roberts gets a ruling he likes "ObamaCare stays" he'll make sure not to grant cert with 4 other Democrats and he won't have to get his hands dirty.

Still, nice to give Democrats a taste of their own medicine.

Posted by: Blago at December 17, 2018 12:47 PM (UfkIY)

142 110. Jerry lives in IL. It is dominated by corrupt Obama loving Blue Cross and Blue Shield.
Posted by: Jonah

............

I will be the first to admit that my choices are probably much better than other parts of the country.. as I said above, O'Care has devastated some parts of the country by driving providers out.

Doesn't really matter for me, however. I turned full SSA retirement age this past year and was forced to go off my employer's plan and on to Medicare. And I lost my employer's HSA contribution.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (so+oy)

143 If Roberts is being blackmailed, maybe the Right should find out what it is, and force him to retire

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (HrSJb)

144 So he allowed Government intrusion, Unconstitutionally, into a large portion of the economy, because he thought it would get overturned later???

I find that very hard to believe.
Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (NgKpN)

Not that stupid, Roberts is playing 5D chess argument again? You don't have to play 5D chess if you just followed the law. Plus didn't Roberts support some other provision a year or two later in another contorted decision?

Posted by: WOPR at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (J70i0)

145 "One of our alleged conservative writers is already arguing that we must spare Obamacare

Wait, so ruling something unconstitutional is... an assault on the rule of law??"

No

"For the Children" trumps the Constitution.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (cqNba)

146 gotta love the VA: got a call this morning to confirm my surgery for Wednesday...

the surgery NO ONE called me last week with a time slot. they couldn't pick one while i was there one Tuesday, and i got a call later that day that they still didn't have one, but would call when they did.

i called them several times, but the one indispensable person was out sick, and no one covered for her.

they they had the nerve to upset with ME because i got on with my life...

assholes.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (zJ7J0)

147 Fair enough Jerry

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (HrSJb)

148
So he allowed Government intrusion, Unconstitutionally, into a large portion of the economy, because he thought it would get overturned later???

I find that very hard to believe.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (NgKpN)

Perhaps allowing people to actuallysee the complete government take over of a large portion of the economy instead of just hearing about it was exactly what was needed.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (TAmPV)

149 Whelp, I guess this will be a chance to see what Kavanaugh's made of. At this point he'd be a fool not to see how corrupt and vicious Democrats are and not rule against their idiot schemes.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at December 17, 2018 12:49 PM (/qEW2)

150 Maybe Roberts knew that would be a posion pill a few years down the road and put it there on pupose.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic

__________

You know what's better than a poison pill? Killing it on the spot.

Roberts buckled because Obama called him out, but Roberts seems to have zero fear of Trump calling him out and saying mean things.

Posted by: Blago at December 17, 2018 12:49 PM (UfkIY)

151 I have ruled that Barack Obama was a "Super-President", meaning that any laws signed by him are superior to the Constitution and therefore cannot be ruled unconstitutional!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:50 PM (Aaxh4)

152 Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:29 PM (qxq6t)

Your pre-existing conditions plan is great, except what the Democraps say is that they want YOU AND ME to pay for the Dems voter's healthcare. Their voters pay for their own pre-existing conditions? Oh hell no!

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 12:50 PM (kiSdp)

153 I think that watching TWS sink beneath the waves terrified them.

I'm hoping that the reference was intentional, but in any case you've given me a poetry earworm from Old Ironsides.

"O better that her shattered hulk should sink beneath the waves
Her thunders shook the mighty deep and there should be her grave"

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2018 12:50 PM (fuK7c)

154 I hope Roberts does not drag down Kav and Gorsuch with him? It would take away a Trump strength for 2020.
How they can claim to be pro life and support his garbage amazes me

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:50 PM (HrSJb)

155 Wait, so ruling something unconstitutional is... an assault on the rule of law??
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (39g3+)

It's the principle you see.

Posted by: GOPe Losers at December 17, 2018 12:50 PM (J70i0)

156 Freaking Glitch Girl. IIRC, she's not even American. She's a dog whistle, signaling to Central Americans to please come and invade, with those those beady little avaricious eyes of hers.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at December 17, 2018 12:51 PM (/qEW2)

157 Over ruled! Bonk, bonk - on the head bonk! - Child judge in Star Trek.

Posted by: Archer at December 17, 2018 12:51 PM (gmo/4)

158 128 Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before obamacare, for sure. It's funny that people think insurance costs will go down if it gets repealed. The real problem is the fucking scumbag lawyers. They act like their system is some kind of moral good, but it's just a way to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Posted by: Chris M at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (eAZVt)

Everything about it is a mess. Notice how nothing is being said about doing changes like making sure they post the costs associated with treatments, etc. Congress gets paid off to avoid stuff like that. Imagine buying a house and you've got no idea how much it costs until after you sign the papers. Why do I have to pay a doctor $200 for a visit when I know I've got *fill in the blank* and just need antibiotics? Someone who has recurring bronchitis or urinary tract infections must pay every single time they go in to get the antibiotics. Why? How about allowing nurse practitioners to set up shop and handle all of that jazz? And that excuse that everything is so expensive because of technology doesn't fly either. We aren't getting Star Trek tech developments on a regular basis that would justify these sky high and continually rising costs.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 12:51 PM (4ErVI)

159 Re 143
See above in my earlier posting what is the rumored cause. Or simply read the heavy.com article below
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y89qxk9p

Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 12:52 PM (ROzyM)

160 The UPS Store
@TheUPSStore
If your child addresses a letter to the North Pole, you can leave it with us. We do shredding.

-
Duuuuuude!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 12:52 PM (+y/Ru)

161 Calm Mentor - No. HDHP's are growing at a faster pace.

http://tinyurl.com/yckhs9xb

"Enrollment in high-deductible health plans with and without accompanying health savings accounts surged among working age adults, while use of traditional health plans decreased, the CDC reported Thursday."

Surged.. google it.. lotsa hits.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:52 PM (so+oy)

162 "it's impossible to see how the mandate can be seen as inseparable from Obamacare after Congress just acted to separate it," said Klein in the Washington Times article.
______________________

A Republican congress in a 2017 tax law separated it. Because they knew that the original law, passed in 2010 by a Dim congress, did not contain a severability clause, and they wanted to kill the entire law.

So it's not at all "impossible to see how the mandate can be seen as inseperable" when the 0-Care law does not work without the mandate and penalty, and the 2010 congress recognized that, commented on it repeatedly during the law-making process, and designed the law so that the entire thing would fail if the mandate was eliminated.

The 2010 congress thought the mandate might be eliminated by SCOTUS holding it to be unconstitutional, but instead it was eliminated by a subsequent congress killing it in a tax law. But it doesn't really matter how the mandate died, the fact is that it did die, and now the rest of the O-Care law must die too.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at December 17, 2018 12:52 PM (fqUgw)

163 Now, if only RBG goes soon....

Posted by: LASue at December 17, 2018 12:52 PM (FeOTH)

164
So, the Individual Mandate was "essential" to Obamacare and, being essential to it, the entire Obamacare law falls if this essential, non-severable part of it is struck down.

Dude, that argument is so, like, four years ago. We've moved on and grown.

Besides, the SC decision is a super-precedent, like Roe v. Wade, and can never be overturned.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 17, 2018 12:53 PM (LsBY9)

165 Roberts buckled because Obama called him out, but Roberts seems to have zero fear of Trump calling him out and saying mean things.

Posted by: Blago at December 17, 2018 12:49 PM (UfkIY)

Yep.

Roberts will go with whatever side gets the most votes - giving an appearance of a somewhat united court.

Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 12:53 PM (349nX)

166 I keep expecting to see Manchin show up on one of the click-bait things "Funny Pictures Taken Moments Before Disaster Strikes."

Posted by: Diogenes at December 17, 2018 12:53 PM (0tfLf)

167 143 If Roberts is being blackmailed, maybe the Right should find out what it is, and force him to retire
Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (HrSJb)

My bet is that they know what it is, but are being blackmailed also.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 12:54 PM (kiSdp)

168
(which would make
the statute an unworkable mess.)

Posted by: Shawn at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (gqJGk

====

That's the part that I'm looking forward to.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 12:54 PM (oGNNA)

169 Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before obamacare, for sure. It's funny that people think insurance costs will go down if it gets repealed.

Well a lot of it WAS cheaper before the ACA but yeah the entire system is a disaster and certainly something needs to be done.

The biggest frustration to me is that the only person who's doing anything at all to reduce COSTS in medical care is... ol' Two Scoops himself by directing the elimination of regulations.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:54 PM (39g3+)

170
Roberts buckled because Obama called him out, but Roberts seems to have zero fear of Trump calling him out and saying mean things.

Posted by: Blago at December 17, 2018 12:49 PM (UfkIY)

Roberts hung the biggest tax increase in American history around Obama's skinny neck. It's not his fault nobody seemed to care.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (TAmPV)

171 I have ruled that the repeal of the Individual Mandate made Obamacare even more of a tax and thus, even more constitutional!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (Aaxh4)

172 @152

I understand that the Democrats are evil pieces of shit but that does not excuse our side from..

A. Not understanding the reality of the situation

and...

B. Not trying to offer a solution

I watched Mikie fucking Sheryl demogogue Jay Webber for 6 months straight over this bullshit with zero push back from that putz, guess what...

Jay Webber is not in congress and Mikie Sherril is.

And if the GOP keeps fucking the chicken 2020 is going to be a blood bath.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (qxq6t)

173
Someone saw you with a cigarette. No healthcare for you. You get the idea.

Tell 'em it was pot. That seems to be exempt.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (aKsyK)

174 The 2010 congress thought the mandate might be eliminated by SCOTUS holding it to be unconstitutional, but instead it was eliminated by a subsequent congress killing it in a tax law. But it doesn't really matter how the mandate died, the fact is that it did die, and now the rest of the O-Care law must die too.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer
.....

yes.. unless they rule the repeal of the mandate was not lawful because of the non-separability.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (so+oy)

175 My bet is that they know what it is, but are being blackmailed also.

Its blackmailers all the way down! And the earth is flat! 9/11 was an inside job using controlled demolition! We never landed on the moon! Obama is secretly a gray alien!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (39g3+)

176 Perhaps allowing people to actuallysee the complete
government take over of a large portion of the economy instead of just
hearing about it was exactly what was needed.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:48 PM (TAmPV)

---
yeah, because that's w*rked so well here in #Failifornia

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (zJ7J0)

177 This will settle the question of whether or not Roberts is/was being blackmailed

Posted by: Biggs Darklighter at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (vWyk0)

178 Jonathan Gruber straightens us out:

https://bit.ly/2rFddCu

-
Yeah, go with that, Jon.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (+y/Ru)

179 Roberts will put on his SEG face and say that even if the cost of the tax is zero, it's still a tax.

Posted by: w at December 17, 2018 12:57 PM (cYWKd)

180
Hey the Supreme Court found some convoluted logic to make the ghey marriage legal. Once they blazed through the forest to clear that path the second time is easier.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 12:57 PM (jYje5)

181 I wouldn't be afraid of mandatory insurance, if the insurance companies were allowed to sell quickie, no frills emergency coverage.

Unfortunately, the government must be involved: ten month, rationed wait for cancer treatments - instant, universally available sex reassignment for your children.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 17, 2018 12:57 PM (+wxxW)

182 128 Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before obamacare, for sure. It's funny that people think insurance costs will go down if it gets repealed. The real problem is the fucking scumbag lawyers. They act like their system is some kind of moral good, but it's just a way to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.

No, there's far more to it than ambulance chasers, though they're a factor.

There's Big Pharma who charges the US 5X because they can only charge the rest of the world 0.4X.

There's hospitals who have to deal with the emergency-room mandate and treat subsidized patients below (what they think is) cost, and have to shift that cost somewhere else (including billing the uninsured 3X because they can write off the bad debt when they don't pay).

There's specialists (hi, gas-passers!) who think that they should be able to pay for an ex-wife, two houses and a fractional-jet card by working four hours three days a week.

I've seen cases to be made about medical-school programs, etc.

Posted by: JEM at December 17, 2018 12:57 PM (8erNz)

183 I'm still shocked that the ACA didn't result in open warfare.

The premium increases for some people were absolutely absurd. The only reason the balloon didn't go up was because those hit the hardest were also the most law-abiding segment of society - which was of course intentional.

Those people are not going to forget this whole mess, though. As someone noted recently... something about a switch with two positions....

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 17, 2018 12:58 PM (eAshZ)

184 166 I keep expecting to see Manchin show up on one of the click-bait things "Funny Pictures Taken Moments Before Disaster Strikes."

Posted by: Diogenes at December 17, 2018 12:53 PM (0tfLf)

If it's him getting eaten by an anaconda, I'll click to watch.

Posted by: IC at December 17, 2018 12:58 PM (a0IVu)

185 Roberts will probably backstab us again.

But who knows, maybe we'll get a miracle win. (Can we get some intense (non-statist) media pressure for Kagan to recuse herself like she should have the first time?)

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at December 17, 2018 12:58 PM (JcPeV)

186 Roberts will go with whatever side gets the most votes - giving an appearance of a somewhat united court.
_______________

He'll go with whatever Linda Greenhouse (who covers the SCOTUS for the NYT) and her lefty cohorts in the MSM say.

They are who Roberts cares about. It is their approval he craves. It was their columns that convinced him that he had to save 0-Care in order to save the reputation of "The Roberts Court."

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (fqUgw)

187 I'm betting 5-4 to overturn lower court, Roberts swings.

Possibly 6-3, but I'm gonna guess 5-4.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (AzW6q)

188 118 Maybe Roberts knew that would be a posion pill a few years down the road and put it there on pupose.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:41 PM (TAmPV)

So he allowed Government intrusion, Unconstitutionally, into a large portion of the economy, because he thought it would get overturned later??? I find that very hard to believe.
Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (NgKpN)

I agree with Flawless Male Logic, and have always felt this way. But I guess we'll find out, won't we?

Posted by: Caliban at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (qEujL)

189 The only reason the balloon didn't go up was because those hit the hardest were also the most law-abiding segment of society - which was of course intentional.

Well that was how it had to be. There was no possible way to cover all the poorest people for basically free without charging the rest huge amounts of money to pay for it all.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (39g3+)

190 The 2010 congress thought the mandate might be eliminated by SCOTUS holding it to be unconstitutional, but instead it was eliminated by a subsequent congress killing it in a tax law. But it doesn't really matter how the mandate died, the fact is that it did die, and now the rest of the O-Care law must die too.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer
.....

yes.. unless they rule the repeal of the mandate was not lawful because of the non-separability.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (so+oy)

---------------

They did not repeal the mandate. They set the non compliance penalty at $0. There is a reason they did it this way.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (ffYR/)

191 B. Not trying to offer a solution
Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (qxq6t)

There is no solution.

Insurance is what you buy before an accident. And a pill you take every day is no accident.

What people want is to name their own price for other people's labor. And that price is often "free".

There is no fix for this.

Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM (349nX)

192 I watched Mikie fucking Sheryl demogogue Jay Webber for 6 months straight over this bullshit with zero push back from that putz, guess what...

Jay Webber is not in congress and Mikie Sherril is.

And if the GOP keeps fucking the chicken 2020 is going to be a blood bath.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM
(qxq6t)

Yep. People want a solution and just intoning over and over Muh Small Government N' Shit isn't the answer, or at least an answer people will accept.

There are ways to at least improve the situation, but they don't want to because SURPRISE SURPRISE they're on the take from the medical/insurance cabal.

Funny how they kept saying REPEAL AND REPLACE OH YES WE WILL and then they got caught short and all of a sudden they're in conference trying to figure something out. It's like hey I thought you already had it figured out? They never had any intention of doing anything about this issue.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (4ErVI)

193 I've ruled that, since it's not explicitly prohibited by the Constitution, Obamacare is constitutional!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (Aaxh4)

194 Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) addressed rumors about his sexuality in a recent interview, telling The Philadelphia Inquirer that he is straight.

"I'm heterosexual," Booker told the newspaper. "Every candidate should run on their authentic self, tell their truth, and more importantly, or most importantly, talk about their vision for the country."

-
Tomahawk Lizzie, Beto O'Rourke, and Joe Biden agree.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (+y/Ru)

195 Roberts hung the biggest tax increase in American history around Obama's skinny neck. It's not his fault nobody seemed to care.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (TAmPV)

There is minimum 47% who don't care if federal taxes go up.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (kiSdp)

196 They are who Roberts cares about. It is their approval he craves. It was their columns that convinced him that he had to save 0-Care in order to save the reputation of "The Roberts Court."

Exactly. People talking about blackmail don't understand the mindset of people like Roberts. The approval of peers and those he esteems matters more than the law.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (39g3+)

197 There is no fix for this.

Then prepare for Medicare for all and Democrat majorities. Because the American public, including a lot of the GOP's base, is not going to accept "[t]here is no fix for this."

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (ppBhU)

198 >>yes.. unless they rule the repeal of the mandate was not lawful because of the non-separability.

They didn't repeal the mandate. The reduced the tax penalty to zero.

Even if the SC does rule against this, and it will take some incredible twists of logic to make that happen, Obamacare cannot work without the penalty. That's why it was put their in the first place.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (/tuJf)

199 195. Hung the tax around Obama's neck? The guy was re-elected 3 years later

Posted by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (HrSJb)

200 There is minimum 47% who don't care if federal taxes go up.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (kiSdp)

They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (ptqGC)

201
Jonathan Gruber straightens us out:

https://bit.ly/2rFddCu

-

Yeah, go with that, Jon.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 12:56 PM (+y/Ru)

====
omg, that snake dares to stick his head above ground to say something that stupid?

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (oGNNA)

202 Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 12:55 PM (qxq6t)

How did Mike Sherrill tell New Jersey to pay for pre-existing? Now is his time to shine.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (kiSdp)

203
Hung the tax around Obama's neck? The guy was re-elected 3 years later

by: Jonah at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (HrSJb)

Because we nominated Mittens

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (TAmPV)

204 @182

There are many problems with the health Insurance/Care System, virtually all of them relate to the fact that it is run as a fascist economic system.

It's controlled massively by government but not fully, it's has all sorts of perverse financial incentives/discinsentives whereby it is not run in a true free market model.

It's model/workings are as fundamentally fucked up as you can get and still the US has the best health care/delivery system in the world.

Which is crazy when you think about it.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (qxq6t)

205 I am perpared to rush in from the sidelines and use my executive authority to derail this miscarriage of justice to make sure people remember me every time they mention healthcare!

Posted by: Citizen Obama at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (37IEG)

206 Mikie Sherill is a chick. Her nickname is Mikie. Yeah it's fucking retarded, but so is she.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (4ErVI)

207 It's like hey I thought you already had it figured out? They never had any intention of doing anything about this issue.

They actually DID have it figured out (like a dozen different laws were proposed by the GOP and shot down by Pelosi and Schumer when Dems controlled congress) but that was just theater. They never really wanted to do anything about it, just make us think they did so we'd give them power.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (39g3+)

208 I'm visualizing some Georgetown salon where Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are off in a corner by themselves and all the Kool Kids are like giggling and snickering and G and K are all so sad and teared up and 'I wanna go home' 'they're all so not nice' 'so mean' and so I'll get with the Kool Kids and everything I ever said or said I believed in so over if you please please let me play in your reindeer Games , Please .

Posted by: jay hoenemeyer at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (3GR94)

209 175,
Something clearly happened regarding Roberts and the PPACA decision. Whether it was political pressure, personal pressure, giving in to the more liberal justice etc., Roberts effectively ignored and damaged his own standing to uphold it. For better or worse, CJ Rehnquist put himself out there, Roberts refuses to do so apart from adopting what he perceives as popular opinions. If Trump gets one or two more appointments, Roberts will essentially be shelved as Burger was. Burger retired, in part, because of his lack of standing among his colleagues and they eventually just went around him. Even the liberals on the court welcomed Rehnquist as CJ as an administrator even if they did not like his politics.

Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (ROzyM)

210

We must tax all the employed more for the benefit of the masses except if they are unemployed with three jobs or Latino or Jewish or Muslim or Trans or whatever I am this week while nationalizing all penii to deploy to the fields and mines to ensure a wonderful standard of living for undocumented immigrants of colors who poop rainbow unicorns and ohhh something just fell out of my vajayjay shiny but kind of smelly lets confiscate all white bank accounts to pay for happiness and dog doody picker uppers and jkqwebfjefhweghqwgiqwejgeieieororfrop

*seizes, sharts, seizes some more*

Posted by: Little Lupe Occupied-Cervix at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (fJdgm)

211 I have ruled that Obamacare is actually a Constitutional Amendment and therefore cannot be ruled unconstitutional!

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (Aaxh4)

212 If Congress took care of ocare then why are we still talking about it?

Posted by: freaked at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (VPJap)

213 Happy Birthday, Fenelon!

Posted by: Taqyia2Me at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (Ftuf+)

214 128
Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before
obamacare, for sure. It's funny that people think insurance costs will
go down if it gets repealed. The real problem is the fucking scumbag
lawyers. They act like their system is some kind of moral good, but it's
just a way to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.

Posted by: Chris M at December 17, 2018 12:46 PM (eAZVt)

Add the AMA and state licensing boards too. They place an artificial limit on the number of licenses that can be issued in order to maintain super high salaries for doctors. Same for medical schools. Want to lower healthcare costs? Flood the market with doctors.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (CQ3Qb)

215 They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Well, them and the people so rich they aren't harmed by it

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (39g3+)

216 OT: Leftists, NeverTrumpers and 'conservative' anti-Trumpers going ape over "Flynn working for the Turks!!!1!1!1!" bullshit from Mueller.

See? We told you he was/they are corrupt!

Sorry. Don't feel like linking the NTs' et alia tweets about it.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2018 01:05 PM (Evws/)

217 That shit-eating grin photo of Roberts on the day of the decision told me all I need to know about his motives. Then, IIRC, he took an extended vacation so he wouldn't have to answer any questions about it. He knew the score.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 17, 2018 01:05 PM (AzW6q)

218 I've seen cases to be made about medical-school programs, etc.

Posted by: JEM at December 17, 2018 12:57 PM (8erNz)

The only way to reform will be from outside the system. The doctors aren't going to do it.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:06 PM (4ErVI)

219 Hey the Supreme Court found some convoluted logic

-
Steely Dan did that decades ago.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 01:06 PM (+y/Ru)

220 208, Probably not Gorsuch as his mother was savaged by the Dems in Washington (look up Anne Burford) and I suspect that humiliation is best served by cold revenge on those folks.

Kavanaugh was also pretty heroic in dissents on the DC Circuit on all sorts of policies where the question was not Sup. Ct. precedent but don't let me prevent you from defeatism.

Posted by: whig at December 17, 2018 01:06 PM (ROzyM)

221 Inertia is DC's friend, so I figures Roberts will come up with something that helps Congress avoid having to actually do something.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at December 17, 2018 01:06 PM (dHkYG)

222 Mmm. Burger.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2018 01:06 PM (Evws/)

223 217 Gave some kind of. Speech in Malta Ithink where he joked about having to get out of the country after the decisio...

Posted by: steevy at December 17, 2018 01:07 PM (BXMxN)

224
They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (ptqGC)

That is why I will retire at the first opportunity. I won't be a slave to the welfare state any longer than I have to.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:07 PM (kiSdp)

225 Roberts buckled because Obama called him out, but
Roberts seems to have zero fear of Trump calling him out and saying mean
things.

Posted by: Blago at December 17, 2018 12:49 PM (UfkIY)

That tends to happen when all you do is call people out and say mean things about the dumbest shit imaginable every single day. Normal people just tune you out and mock.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:07 PM (CQ3Qb)

226 Remember that small period of time when Obama and the Donks tried to unperson the name "Obamacare" and refer to it as the "Affordable Care Act"?

Good times, good times.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 17, 2018 01:08 PM (ctuyM)

227 Then prepare for Medicare for all and Democrat majorities. Because the American public, including a lot of the GOP's base, is not going to accept "[t]here is no fix for this."

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:01 PM (ppBhU)

Probably.

Best thing that could happen - honestly ? Medical Science just fucking STOP for about fifty years. No innovation. No more modern medical miracles. Just drive down the costs of what we have now.

Because everybody wants World Class Cutting Edge Treatment for free. They'd be happier - honestly - if the shit did not exist. Because they wouldn't know what they were missing.

Same thing will fix this that will fix most everything else. A collapsing dollar. Depression Era Folks didn't worry to much about their Co-Pays. We won't either.

Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 01:08 PM (349nX)

228 Add the AMA and state licensing boards too. They place an artificial limit on the number of licenses that can be issued in order to maintain super high salaries for doctors. Same for medical schools. Want to lower healthcare costs? Flood the market with doctors.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans

Restricting entrants into the marketplace is just good old fashioned free trade!!!

Posted by: GONAH JOLDBERG at December 17, 2018 01:08 PM (ZejZP)

229
Leftists, NeverTrumpers and 'conservative' anti-Trumpers going ape over "Flynn working for the Turks!!!1!1!1!" bullshit from Mueller.

How dare him work for a NATO ally

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 01:08 PM (TAmPV)

230 That tends to happen when all you do is call people
out and say mean things about the dumbest shit imaginable every single
day. Normal people just tune you out and mock.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:07 PM (CQ3Qb)
Right! So I don't understand why he kowtowed to the Black Messiah on this.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (37IEG)

231 "I'm heterosexual," Booker told the newspaper. "Every candidate should run on their authentic self, tell their truth, and more importantly, or most importantly, talk about their vision for the country."

There is no truth to the rumor that Booker is gay and actually lives in Manhattan, not New Jersey.

And you are racist if you don't believe that.

Posted by: The ARC of History at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (I2/tG)

232 There's a lot wrong with O'Care.. but high deductibles ain't it.

Most employers have put their employees on high deductible plans these days..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 17, 2018 12:39 PM (so+oy)

....

High deductibles are great, if the premiums reflect them.

High deductibles and high premiums is what everyone is paying, and what has everyone upset.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (yL25O)

233 206 Mikie Sherill is a chick. Her nickname is Mikie. Yeah it's fucking retarded, but so is she.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (4ErVI)

Ok, well I left NJ in 1996 and haven't kept up with the place.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (kiSdp)

234 What people want is to name their own price for other people's labor. And that price is often "free".
Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 12:59 PM

You say that like it's a Bad Thing.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (ctuyM)

235 This country is so fucking OVER. It's pathetic and we're just pretending we still have a government that has the consent of the governed.

Posted by: LGoPs at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (WfMDW)

236
High deductibles are great, if the premiums reflect them.

High deductibles and high premiums is what everyone is paying, and what has everyone upset.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (yL25O)
Well, ALMOST everyone. he he he he

Posted by: Health Insurance Companies at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (37IEG)

237 That tends to happen when all you do is call people out and say mean things about the dumbest shit imaginable every single day. Normal people just tune you out and mock.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:07 PM (CQ3Qb)

------

Obama called out the Court and mocked it repeatedly. As he did with many, many others.

What this boils down to is which politicians and which voters fake conservative judges want to kiss up to, and isn't the ones on the right.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (AzW6q)

238 the best part of our system is I get to pay for the FSA's soda pop and their diabeetus and hoveround.

Posted by: x at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (nFwvY)

239 That damn Trump has stepped in it again!

Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (+y/Ru)

240 We are sleepwalking into servitude.

Posted by: LGoPs at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (WfMDW)

241 There is no truth to the rumor that Booker is gay and actually lives in Manhattan, not New Jersey.

And you are racist if you don't believe that.

Posted by: The ARC of History at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (I2/tG)

There's also no truth that Booker is known as "The Toilet" in the gay community.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (4ErVI)

242 Re Manchins bill: Why would the majority Republican Senate file a brief supporting Obamacare? Not going to happen even if the bill passed.

Posted by: LASue at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (XROPS)

243 Want to lower healthcare costs? Flood the market with doctors.

Maybe. But it won't be healthcare you actually want to receive. I've had poor medical coverage, and lived in areas without great options. The medical care available on the cheap is generally terrible. Go receive treatment where the poor folk go some time. It ain't pretty.

I often hear the same argument about lawyers. As a lawyer, I am fine with this proposal because the kind of folks who hire cheap lawyers will end up needing my services after the cheap guy makes a complete hash of their client's life.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (ppBhU)

244 They did not repeal the mandate. They set the non compliance penalty at $0. There is a reason they did it this way.
________________

Yes, because the penalty was a tax (according to Roberts, and that's what made the mandate constitutional), and the law congress passed in 2017 (eliminating the penalty) was a tax law. Now the tax is eliminated, and the mandate is not constitutional as an exercise of congress' power under the Commerce Clause (because SCOTUS said so), so the mandate must fail. And since the mandate must fail, so must the rest of the non-severable 0-Care law.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (fqUgw)

245 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM (+y/Ru)

You made that up, right?

LOL.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (AllCR)

246 OT: Leftists, NeverTrumpers and 'conservative' anti-Trumpers going ape over "Flynn working for the Turks!!!1!1!1!" bullshit from Mueller.
----------------------------------------------------------

So this is news? We've known for a long time that Flynn lobbied for Turkey.
I love how the Mueller investigation allows the media to come up with headlines about things we already know.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (NFEMn)

247 Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM

Say what you want about witches, at least they know how to spell.

Posted by: Assistant Associate AoSHQ Copy Editor, Spelling and Punctuation Division at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (ctuyM)

248 This country is so fucking OVER. It's pathetic and we're just pretending we still have a government that has the consent of the governed.
Posted by: LGoPs at December 17, 2018 01:09 PM (WfMDW)

-----------

The Country may still be pretty phuched up, but it is in no way over.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (ffYR/)

249 Health insurance has been a clusterfuck for a long time. Since before obamacare, for sure.
========================
What I'm trying to figure out is why my employee provided health insurance keeps going up and up, and the big jumps happened starting with the "implementation' of Ocare. if i was a cynical person, I would think it was just insurance companies trying to gouge us, b/c... Ocare, don'tchaknow?

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (ty7RM)

250 Guessing they will rule that a mandate without any penalty isn't a mandate anymore, but just a suggestion and so, constitutional.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (9qOCq)

251 >>Yes, because the penalty was a tax (according to Roberts, and that's what made the mandate constitutional), and the law congress passed in 2017 (eliminating the penalty) was a tax law. Now the tax is eliminated, and the mandate is not constitutional as an exercise of congress' power under the Commerce Clause (because SCOTUS said so), so the mandate must fail. And since the mandate must fail, so must the rest of the non-severable 0-Care law.

I agree with this and it is absolutely logical.

I have to admit I don't fully trust Roberts to do the right and logical thing.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (/tuJf)

252
I live on a fairly wealthy street. But even the married Drs. down the street both work. Wanna guess who has a stay at home wife, second home, a couple of boats, five acres, swimming pool, landscapers, etc?

The guy who fvcking sells insurance.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 01:13 PM (jYje5)

253 Because everybody wants World Class Cutting Edge Treatment for free. They'd be happier - honestly - if the shit did not exist. Because they wouldn't know what they were missing.

Same thing will fix this that will fix most everything else. A collapsing dollar. Depression Era Folks didn't worry to much about their Co-Pays. We won't either.
Posted by: B.Eadie at December 17, 2018 01:08 PM (349nX)

Amen brother.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:13 PM (kiSdp)

254 The latter sawed off the last leg it stood on."

**********

"Come back and fight! I'll bite your kneecap! It's just a flesh wound!

/The Black Knight

Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:13 PM (lLoBm)

255 Steely Dan did that decades ago.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler

True 'dat.

Any major dude will tell you.

Posted by: Adriane the But I Like Maps Better than GPS Critic ... at December 17, 2018 01:13 PM (LPnfS)

256 >>That is why I will retire at the first opportunity. I won't be a slave to the welfare state any longer than I have to.

The Free Rider problem has a mirror image of itself in these situations.

Higher confiscatory tax rates have the same problem as Socialist wealth distribution. Whereby you end up
encouraging the productive to abandon work due to it not benefitting them, enough.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (Q1ZdF)

257 Same for medical schools. Want to lower healthcare costs? Flood the market with doctors.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:04 PM (CQ3Qb)

...
Agreed.

There was an excellent bit in the Interlocutor or whatever it's called that Hillsdale College sends out on the historical underpinnings of medical insurance and the structure that has been handed down to us as a result.

From the get-go they were an income stream to prop up hospitals. Health Insurance has never been structured as a hedge against catastrophic payments for the end user (the way insurance should be), and of course with the switch to employers providing HI the consumer is no longer the customer.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (yL25O)

258 Because everybody wants World Class Cutting Edge Treatment for free. They'd be happier - honestly - if the shit did not exist. Because they wouldn't know what they were missing.

There's a theory that in Ye Olden Days, a good plague would actually be beneficial for the population, as it would cull the weakest first.

To strong a plague, though, and you get worse effects, like abandoned fields.

Anyway, it's well-documented that average life expectancy shot up in the 20th Century, less so but still significant if you remove infant mortality from the equation (i.e. if you lived past 2 or 3 or 5 you were much more likely to make it to 30 or 40), and the *actual maximum* hasn't gone up much. Socrates was *executed* at 70, and was still what we would call "with it" mentally.

My point is that we seem to be approaching the limits of human longevity, barring massive innovations in artificial organs and the like.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (84QUd)

259 OT: Leftists, NeverTrumpers and 'conservative' anti-Trumpers going ape over "Flynn working for the Turks!!!1!1!1!" bullshit from Mueller.
----------------------------------------------------------

So this is news? We've known for a long time that Flynn lobbied for Turkey.
I love how the Mueller investigation allows the media to come up with headlines about things we already know.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (NFEMn)
--------------------------------------

But but but... I thought Turkey = good.
Saudi Arabia = bad.

So Flynn + Turkey = double plus good.

Posted by: Boots at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (jRkIE)

260 Mikie Sherill is a chick. Her nickname is Mikie. Yeah it's fucking retarded, but so is she.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 17, 2018 01:03 PM (4ErVI)

She has a name redolent of a Vegas lounge singer. Or Catskill comedian of either sex.

She'll probably be governor some day.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (NFEMn)

261 Same thing will fix this that will fix most everything else. A
Posted by: B.Eadie

good, old fashioned, world war.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (xzezz)

262 There is minimum 47% who don't care if federal taxes go up.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (kiSdp)

They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (ptqGC)

And they shouldn't be allowed to vote. But that'll never happen.

Posted by: Archer at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (gmo/4)

263 Lamar Alexander is not going to run for re-election to the Senate from Tennessee next time around. The winnowing continues.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, Starlet Picture Inspector at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (LISuA)

264 >>Someone saw you with a cigarette. No healthcare for you. You get the idea.

There's a Buttboy Carve Out, though.

Remember :

Smoking = Bad

Butt Fucking Dudes = Noble

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (Q1ZdF)

265 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (AllCR)

-------------------

Happy Birthday!

Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (ffYR/)

266 Say what you want about witches, at least they know how to spell.

********

Yeah, they've had their eye on Newt Gingrich for quite a while.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (lLoBm)

267 262 There is minimum 47% who don't care if federal taxes go up.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (kiSdp)

They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (ptqGC)

And they shouldn't be allowed to vote. But that'll never happen.
Posted by: Archer at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (gmo/4)

With the Tax cut, I bet that is now over 50%.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 01:16 PM (NgKpN)

268 Anyway, it's well-documented that average life expectancy shot up in the 20th Century, less so but still significant if you remove infant mortality from the equation (i.e. if you lived past 2 or 3 or 5 you were much more likely to make it to 30 or 40), and the *actual maximum* hasn't gone up much. Socrates was *executed* at 70, and was still what we would call "with it" mentally.

So were our founding fathers.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 17, 2018 01:16 PM (xzezz)

269 the best part of our system is I get to pay for the FSA's soda pop and their diabeetus and hoveround.

Posted by: x at December 17, 2018 01:10 PM

Know who has the highest propensity for Type 2 diabeetus? Folks from south of our border. But the (D)'s are fine and dandy with bringing them in en mass and flooding the system.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (jYje5)

270 Maybe. But it won't be healthcare you actually want
to receive. I've had poor medical coverage, and lived in areas without
great options. The medical care available on the cheap is generally
terrible. Go receive treatment where the poor folk go some time. It
ain't pretty.

I often hear the same argument about lawyers. As a lawyer, I am fine
with this proposal because the kind of folks who hire cheap lawyers
will end up needing my services after the cheap guy makes a complete
hash of their client's life.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (ppBhU)

The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a $20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (CQ3Qb)

271 There was an excellent bit in the Interlocutor or whatever it's called that Hillsdale College sends out on the historical underpinnings of medical insurance and the structure that has been handed down to us as a result.

Don't forget "you get health insurance from your employer" is largely a relic of WW2 wage and price controls. (You don't get automobile or property insurance from your employer, or your mortgage, for example.)

Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (84QUd)

272 Maybe. But it won't be healthcare you actually want to receive. I've had poor medical coverage, and lived in areas without great options. The medical care available on the cheap is generally terrible. Go receive treatment where the poor folk go some time. It ain't pretty.

I often hear the same argument about lawyers. As a lawyer, I am fine with this proposal because the kind of folks who hire cheap lawyers will end up needing my services after the cheap guy makes a complete hash of their client's life.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:11 PM (ppBhU)

The original reasoning for the restrictions on doctors, over a century ago, was to clear out the crackpots and the con-men from the profession. That's largely been done, and in fact we've gone too far, IMHO, by creating an aura of mystical knowledge around doctors. Many of them begin to believe their own BS.

Probably the best thing would be to loosen restrictions such as limitations on the number of med students in any state, and encourage the growth of PAs and nurse practitioners operating under the supervision of an M.D. or D.O. We don't have to eliminate all safeguards, just get rid of the most onerous restrictions which do the least amount of good.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (wCmLp)

273 Higher confiscatory tax rates have the same problem as Socialist wealth distribution. Whereby you end up
encouraging the productive to abandon work due to it not benefitting them, enough.
Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (Q1ZdF)

I can keep myself fit by bird hunting in MT or ID. And trout fishing, too. The Hell with work.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (kiSdp)

274 268 Anyway, it's well-documented that average life expectancy shot up in the 20th Century, less so but still significant if you remove infant mortality from the equation (i.e. if you lived past 2 or 3 or 5 you were much more likely to make it to 30 or 40), and the *actual maximum* hasn't gone up much. Socrates was *executed* at 70, and was still what we would call "with it" mentally.

So were our founding fathers.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 17, 2018 01:16 PM (xzezz)

Three score and ten. Anything more than that is gravy.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (NWiLs)

275 @259

These indictments just allow the Mueller clown show to keep on rolling and to keep the narrative keeping on.

It's probably a retaliation for Flynn fighting Mueller.

I'm sure Muller and his bully boys have all sorts of shiny objects in their back pockets for occasions like this.

Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (qxq6t)

276 Say what you want about witches, at least they know how to spell.

********

Yeah, they've had their eye on Newt Gingrich for quite a while.
Posted by: Muldoon

Eye of newt, tail of frog, etc.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (xzezz)

277 How dare him work for a NATO ally
-----
It involves his business partner; and he wasn't properly FIRA (or whatever the acronym is) registered from before the election (that everyone thought Trump was going to lose) from what I could make out from the tweets.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (Evws/)

278 There is minimum 47% who don't care if federal taxes go up.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:00 PM (kiSdp)

They're the ones who pay no federal taxes. The Free Sh*t Army.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2018 01:02 PM (ptqGC)

Yes, but this doesn't include the rich people who vote Democrat all the time.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (NFEMn)

279 Roberts will rule that a tax is still a tax even if its reduced to 0%.

I think they have pictures of him being naughty.

Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (xss3U)

280 There's a theory that in Ye Olden Days, a good plague would actually be beneficial for the population, as it would cull the weakest first.

This is a tangent, but one of the weird things of the Spanish Influenza of 1918 is that it was more deadly to the young and healthy than to the old and infirm or to children.

Something about attacking the very attributes of health.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (fuK7c)

281 Brian in New Orleans

Classy Obama who did nasty things by stealth

One may smile and smile and still be a villain.

Shakespeare adapted.]

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (AllCR)

282 Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."

"Was Christine O'Donnell part of that? Because I heard she was a witch and we totally shouldn't vote for her"
--"Conservative" pundits

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (39g3+)

283 Well when we win the new Civil War we can enslave Californians to pay for our healthcare and pick our salad fixins. So there is hope.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (2LelM)

284 Want to lower healthcare costs? Eliminate third-party payers.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:19 PM (lLoBm)

285 Yeah, they've had their eye on Newt Gingrich for quite a while.
Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM

We like to tow a' Frog.

Posted by: Wiccan Peugeot Recovery and Roadside Assistance at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (ctuyM)

286 284 Want to lower healthcare costs? Eliminate third-party payers.
Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:19 PM (lLoBm)

This this this this this. SMASH THE OLIGOPSONY!

Posted by: Insomniac at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (NWiLs)

287 250
Guessing they will rule that a mandate without any penalty isn't a
mandate anymore, but just a suggestion and so, constitutional.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (9qOCq)
Right, it will be like the Income Tax as defined by the IRS, voluntary!

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (37IEG)

288 Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."

I thought witches were trying to put a hex on Trump or something.

Posted by: rickl at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (xjiRE)

289 Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 01:15 PM (ffYR/)

Thx.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (AllCR)

290 Don't forget "you get health insurance from your employer" is largely a relic of WW2 wage and price controls. (You don't get automobile or property insurance from your employer, or your mortgage, for example.)
Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (84QUd)

...

I would cry unashamed tears of manly joy if the practice of providing health insurance through employers were outlawed.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (yL25O)

291 From the get-go they were an income stream to prop up hospitals. Health Insurance has never been structured as a hedge against catastrophic payments for the end user (the way insurance should be), and of course with the switch to employers providing HI the consumer is no longer the customer.
Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:14 PM (yL25O)

And Health Insurance being offered by employers was a result of WW2.

The were controlling wages, so in order to keep good workers companies had to come up with news methods of compensation.

Which is why Company paid for Health insurance is non taxable, and not considered income.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (NgKpN)

292

Notice how it's a "Texas" judge, not a "Federal" judge.

Some local yokel redneck lower court judge somewhere in the middle of Texas.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (GDutV)

293
The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a $20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (CQ3Qb)

Go ahead Brian, I'll take my chances with the 'Murrican RN or NP over the Honduran.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (kiSdp)

294 >>Want to lower healthcare costs? Eliminate third-party payers.

Or we could just enslave the tonsil wranglers and toe cutters.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (/tuJf)

295
Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."

Maybe people would take their claim more seriously if they weren't gathering to cast spells on Trump outside the White House gates.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (TAmPV)

296 Hot french cop chick photo. Just a reminder because, hot.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (37IEG)

297 The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a $20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.

Isn't that kind of what's been happening with nurses and techs? Instead of having an expensive doctor do a minor thing, you have a cheaper worker do it.

I mean, yeah, there's logical reasons for some of that too (like in most professions), but I get the sense that in the medical field, it's much more out of whack than, say, carpentry.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (84QUd)

298 Probably the best thing would be to loosen
restrictions such as limitations on the number of med students in any
state, and encourage the growth of PAs and nurse practitioners operating
under the supervision of an M.D. or D.O. We don't have to eliminate all
safeguards, just get rid of the most onerous restrictions which do the
least amount of good.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (wCmLp)

We don't even have to lower the standards, just allow as many people who want to to take the tests. They're limiting the number of people who are even allowed to try.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (CQ3Qb)

299 288 Daily Beast reports the actual witch community is requesting that Trump stop calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' because they find it "deeply problematic and, frankly, a bit hurtful."

I thought witches were trying to put a hex on Trump or something.
Posted by: rickl at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (xjiRE)

...

Right. Witches aren't supposed to have to use the political process to get what they want.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (yL25O)

300 Want to lower healthcare costs? Eliminate third-party payers.

By which you presumably mean have the transaction be between doctor and patient. Good idea.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, Starlet Picture Inspector at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (LISuA)

301 This is a tangent, but one of the weird things of the Spanish Influenza of 1918 is that it was more deadly to the young and healthy than to the old and infirm or to children.

Something about attacking the very attributes of health.
-----------------------
Those that worked outdoors were susceptible to it. This is best example of spermogeneisis (spooge from outer space). Space Aliens fap a lot.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (2LelM)

302
Some traffic court judge in a Texas town...

Might as well be the Register of Deeds in Podunk, USA.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (GDutV)

303 I think they have pictures of him being naughty.
Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (xss3U)

-----

Personally, I think he's just another statist goon in a black robe, who hid his true intentions until he'd grabbed the brass ring.

Ain't the first, won't be the last.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (AzW6q)

304 293

The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a
small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a
$20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (CQ3Qb)

Go ahead Brian, I'll take my chances with the 'Murrican RN or NP over the Honduran.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (kiSdp)
Fine, just don't charge me for your decisions.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (37IEG)

305 293
The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a $20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (CQ3Qb)

Go ahead Brian, I'll take my chances with the 'Murrican RN or NP over the Honduran.
Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (kiSdp)

...

There are no more 'murican RN's. have you not been to the hospital recently?

Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (yL25O)

306 283 Well when we win the new Civil War we can enslave Californians to pay for our healthcare and pick our salad fixins. So there is hope.
Posted by: Puddin Head at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (2LelM)

Threadwinner.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (kiSdp)

307 And quit calling it Health Insurance.
It is nothing of the sort, unless I can buy fire insurance the day after my house burns down.

Posted by: navybrat, on a mission from Odin at December 17, 2018 01:23 PM (w7KSn)

308 Notice how it's a "Texas" judge, not a "Federal" judge.

Some local yokel redneck lower court judge somewhere in the middle of Texas.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (GDutV)

I noticed that. They have every angle covered. Kind of like how Palin was "Mayor of Wasilla", not governor of one of the 50 states--or Trump is a "reality show star"--not a billionaire developer who's been well-known for 40 years

Posted by: JoeF. at December 17, 2018 01:23 PM (NFEMn)

309 279 Roberts will rule that a tax is still a tax even if its reduced to 0%.

I think they have pictures of him being naughty.

Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (xss3U)
--------------------------

It's been mentioned that his adopted children are from Ireland, but they were adopted through a South American country or something and it was a shady deal that wouldn't look good coming from the chief justice of the US Supreme Court.

Posted by: Boots at December 17, 2018 01:23 PM (jRkIE)

310
I employed highly skilled workers, took years to train, difficult to replace, and I provided them with health insurance because it was in my own damned interest to have them as healthy as possible.

Any other reasoning is bullshit.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 17, 2018 01:23 PM (jYje5)

311 Maybe. But it won't be healthcare you actually want
to receive. I've had poor medical coverage, and lived in areas without
great options. The medical care available on the cheap is generally
terrible. Go receive treatment where the poor folk go some time. It
ain't pretty.

I remember when a Comedian on Compound Media (Podcast) talked about how he visited a mobile clinic to get treatment for something and it sounded like a horror show with him describing the people waiting. Hookers with STDs attics looking for needles etc a horror show and they kept asking if he caught AIDS while in line.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (kuDXe)

312 I'm not kidding when I say that I am fine with eliminating professional barriers to entry. But there's an important caveat: I'm soulless and don't care what terrible things happen to underinformed and incapable consumers on the general ground that bad things are going to happen to them anyway.

But you really shouldn't underestimate how bad bottom-tier medical care and legal representation would become if you eliminated regulatory barriers to entry.

I spent a decade or so representing big pharma companies in product liability suits. So doctors were frequently co-defendants. You'd be amazed even now, with barriers to entry, how bad the really bad docs are and how mediocre a lot of doctors are.

The same is even more true of lawyers.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (ppBhU)

313 Native Americans are fucking idiots.

They could have 60-75% of the healthcare Market cornered by now.

Build Hospitals next to your Casinos.
Hire Doctors.
Tell the US Government to go fuck themselves.

It'd be like printing money.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (Q1ZdF)

314 The Country may still be pretty phuched up, but it is in no way over.

Posted by: Calm Mentor at December 17, 2018 01:12 PM (ffYR/)

Well, yeah, it will still physically exist as a geographical entity between Canada and Mexico but no, not in the way it was founded or in the way I knew it when I was young.

Posted by: LGoPs at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (WfMDW)

315 Some local yokel redneck lower court judge somewhere in the middle of Texas.
Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM

The Dallasinians do refer to Ft. Worth as "Cowtown".

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (ctuyM)

316 I think we ought to separate emergency care from the rest of healthcare. Make ambulances and ERs a local emergency service in the vein of police and fire. With how the law is structured that they have to treat everyone regardless, we're already paying for uninsured ER abusers anyway.

Splitting emergency medicine away from the rest destroys any rationale for keeping health providers out of direct competition. If we made general health insurance to follow the same standards as vision and dental, where providers are still in competition, prices would come down and quality would start improving.

Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (J+mig)

317 FTSB - It's a Cuck Stampede! The Herd of Independent Minds Who Style Themselves "Conservative Thought-Leaders" Have Held a Twitter Conclave and Decided That the Ruling Striking Down Obamacare is "Bad"
Ever get the feeling you've been conned for the past 20-30 years?

Yes, but I've been "woke" now.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (yQpMk)

318 Most of you are 29 and too young for this but for those a bit older, ask your grandparents or remember what they said about medicine. They didn't have big insurance plans, they went and paid the bill like you do with a car being fixed or buying a dress. Why did they do that?

Because it didn't cost a kabillion dollars to see the doctor back then. COST is the problem, reduce cost and you fix the problems.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (39g3+)

319 Those that worked outdoors were susceptible to it. This is best example of spermogeneisis (spooge from outer space). Space Aliens fap a lot.
Posted by: Puddin Head at December 17, 2018 01:21 PM (2LelM)

I tried to tell you people.

Posted by: Zombie Charles Fort at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (7HtZB)

320 nstead of having an expensive doctor do a minor thing, you have a cheaper worker do it.

*********

You're partially correct. The NP or PA is paid less, but the service is billed at the same level as if a physician had done it. Total cost at the point of sale does not go down as the system currently stands.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (lLoBm)

321 But but but... I thought Turkey = good.
-----
LOL. I said the same thing reading one of the hysterical tweets.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (Evws/)

322 how come doctors are so over-represented in murder for hire?

Posted by: x at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (nFwvY)

323 nood

Posted by: navybrat, on a mission from Odin at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (w7KSn)

324 There are no more 'murican RN's. have you not been to the hospital recently?
Posted by: TexasDan at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (yL25O)

My RN daughter is not a furriner.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (kiSdp)

325 These indictments just allow the Mueller clown show to keep on rolling and to keep the narrative keeping on.

It's probably a retaliation for Flynn fighting Mueller.

I'm sure Muller and his bully boys have all sorts of shiny objects in their back pockets for occasions like this.
Posted by: Kreplach at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (qxq6t)

Flynn was a target all by himself.

The Deep State hated him, as he did not agree with their agenda.

And, he was on the short list for National Security Advisor... AND already knew where the system was screwed.

To them? he was a traitor to the deep state, and could not be allowed into authority.

Flynn was not all about Trump.

Posted by: Don Q at December 17, 2018 01:25 PM (NgKpN)

326
It must really bother them that the major airport is called Dallas/Ft Worth.

Posted by: Soothsayer SLX Pro Series II Platinum Turbo at December 17, 2018 01:26 PM (GDutV)

327 >>I thought Turkey = good.

Meh. Without Gravy and all the Trimmings, it's kinda boring.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:26 PM (Q1ZdF)

328 313
Native Americans are fucking idiots.

They could have 60-75% of the healthcare Market cornered by now.

Build Hospitals next to your Casinos.

Hire Doctors.

Tell the US Government to go fuck themselves.

It'd be like printing money.

Posted by: garrett at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (Q1ZdF)
Shit! Train their own doctors and create an association - Native American Medical Association.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:26 PM (37IEG)

329 This is a tangent, but one of the weird things of the Spanish Influenza of 1918 is that it was more deadly to the young and healthy than to the old and infirm or to children.

Something about attacking the very attributes of health.

I didn't know that, and I'm not crazy about that theory I posted (for one, just because something doesn't kill you, doesn't mean you're not weakened), but things like that really make a hash of it.

But the underpinning is really part of civilization itself-- protecting the weak often means they're still weak and need protection.

See also Death Panels.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:26 PM (84QUd)

330 Keep in mind, the words cost', 'price', 'spending' and 'value' are not equivalent, but they are often used inter changeably in these discussions.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 17, 2018 01:27 PM (lLoBm)

331 Here is the result of the ACA. I work in rev cycle.

People who don't have insurance go to the ER. People that have Obamacare go to the ER because it's not really insurance.

No one pays the 'self pay' portion of the bill.

You and I end up paying the bill through rising deductibles, copays, and premiums keeping insurance companies whole.

Insurance companies win. The government wins.

The poor are the same.

Posted by: MJ at December 17, 2018 01:27 PM (gqRmZ)

332
The Dallasinians do refer to Ft. Worth as "Cowtown".

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 17, 2018 01:24 PM (ctuyM)
Some of us refer to it as Real Texas. As opposed to Dallas, or Austin.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:28 PM (37IEG)

333 I would cry unashamed tears of manly joy if the practice of providing health insurance through employers were outlawed.
Posted by: TexasDan

Remember when the GOP complained that they can't pass legislation allowing nation-wide health insurance policies because they didn't control all three parts of the Federal government?

Good times. Good times.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 17, 2018 01:28 PM (ZejZP)

334
It's been mentioned that his adopted children are from Ireland, but they were adopted through a South American country or something and it was a shady deal that wouldn't look good coming from the chief justice of the US Supreme Court.

Posted by: Boots at December 17, 2018 01:23 PM (jRkIE)

I never bought that it would make him look bad. He adopted the kids through the Catholic Churchwhich has well established adoption services inLatin America and Ireland.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 17, 2018 01:28 PM (TAmPV)

335 I didn't read the link, is it definitely going to scotus? I can see them just not taking it up and letting it stand. Saves them a lot of headaches.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 17, 2018 01:29 PM (r+sAi)

336 293

The point is to allow people the choice. The Honduran doctor with a

small practice might not have a degree from John Hopkins but charges a

$20 flat-rate for a shot? Let me decide.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at December 17, 2018 01:17 PM (CQ3Qb)

Go ahead Brian, I'll take my chances with the 'Murrican RN or NP over the Honduran.

Posted by: clutch at December 17, 2018 01:20 PM (kiSdp)
Fine, just don't charge me for your decisions.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 17, 2018 01:22 PM (37IEG)

There's some folks who live down under the interstate bridge that work a lot with needles. Could give you an injection real cheap.
You usually get what you pay for.

Posted by: Archer at December 17, 2018 01:30 PM (gmo/4)

337 You're partially correct. The NP or PA is paid less, but the service is billed at the same level as if a physician had done it. Total cost at the point of sale does not go down as the system currently stands.

That's IMO messed up. You should get a discount, or alternately pay a premium for the actual expert, though I suppose setting a rate for the service would help select for that (instead of setting a rate for apprentices vs. journeymen or interns or whatever.)

Posted by: Lance McCormick at December 17, 2018 01:30 PM (84QUd)

338 But what about the "I Know That Is What We Wrote Down But That Is Not What We Meant!" precedent?

I mean, can't Judge Roberts just re-write the original bill...again, adding a severability clause?

Or maybe Obama can issue an Ex-Executive Order to straighten this all out.

I know! John Brennan can 'find' an executive order that Obama signed on January 10, 2017 that straightens this all out.

Posted by: JB1000 at December 17, 2018 01:31 PM (jSar8)

339 You and I end up paying the bill through rising deductibles, copays, and premiums keeping insurance companies whole.

Insurance companies win. The government wins.

The poor are the same.

Posted by: MJ at December 17, 2018 01:27 PM (gqRmZ)

And the increased costs drive the middle class and working class down towards poverty, which is the real design. They hate that there is anything to blur the line between the elite and the starving masses.

Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 17, 2018 01:31 PM (J+mig)

340 279 Roberts will rule that a tax is still a tax even if its reduced to 0%.

I think they have pictures of him being naughty.
Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:18 PM (xss3U)

He did some shady stuff in order to adopt his kids, He had the Mother fly to another country to get around Ireland's adoption laws.

The Hospitals want RN with 4 year degrees instead of the cheaper 2 year, it's bull now my wife has to go back to school at least she isn't paying for it but still its crap.

We are seeing alot of Dr from India and you don't want them thier view on quality of Life is SCARY if they think you are beneath them they don't care about you to the point that you should die.

We also see some Russians they are good but they give 2 craps about pain management. Break a leg here some aspirin

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 17, 2018 01:32 PM (kuDXe)

341 "They never had any intention of doing anything about this issue."

Fen: Repeal Obamacare

GOP: Got to control the House first.

Fen: Done. Now repeal it.

GOP: Still need a Senate majority

Fen: Done. Now repeal it.

GOP: Can't without a Republican President

Fen: Done. Anything else? (sigh)

GOP: A few new justices on the Supreme Court?

Fen: Done and done. Now repeal Obamacare already!

GOP: Are you nuts? We'll lose our majority!

Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:33 PM (xss3U)

342 Probably the best thing would be to loosen restrictions such as limitations on the number of med students in any state, and encourage the growth of PAs and nurse practitioners operating under the supervision of an M.D. or D.O. We don't have to eliminate all safeguards, just get rid of the most onerous restrictions which do the least amount of good.

I don't know the specific statistics in the US but we certainly recruit a whole lot of our RNs and below, and an increasing number of those up the tree from that, from outside the US. Was listening to an NPR piece the other day about a doctor treating opioid addiction in BFE, Pennsyltucky or some such, he'd come in from Guam or the Philippines IIRC.

I will note that my daughter's orthodontist is US-trained Iranian from part of the post-Shah diaspora, my dentist (and friend and sometimes traveling companion and parent of my kid's frenemies) is part of a Filipino family of dentists (the practicing generation are all US-trained), my wife's GP is Indian and I don't know her background, etc.

There are certain specialties that are on path to be mostly automated out of existence (hey, gas-passers!)

Posted by: JEM at December 17, 2018 01:34 PM (8erNz)

343 At the rate we are going, I'm expecting a Hawaiian judge to re-impose the tax by fiat to make everything cool again.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 17, 2018 01:36 PM (DodRu)

344 Now they have nowhere to go.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 17, 2018 12:43 PM (/tuJf)

____

I hope hell isn't full yet.

Posted by: ShainS -- #WokeStasi Dragnet Survivor at December 17, 2018 01:36 PM (4qsb0)

345 They didn't have big insurance plans, they went and paid the bill like you do with a car being fixed or buying a dress. Why did they do that?

Because it didn't cost a kabillion dollars to see the doctor back then. COST is the problem, reduce cost and you fix the problems.

--

When the consumer does not pay the bill, expect rapid price inflation

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 17, 2018 01:38 PM (DodRu)

346 "And the increased costs drive the middle class and working class down towards poverty, which is the real design. They hate that there is anything to blur the line between the elite and the starving masses."

The pattern repeats. Mega Corp lobbies for government interference to keep pesky startups from competing. It's like the Great Filter that invalidates Fermi's Paradox.

Same pattern with high taxes. The rich can afford an army of lawyers to loophole their assets. The middle class gets Quicken.

Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:40 PM (xss3U)

347 Question for lawyers:
Assuming Roberts' problem is that he adopted two kids from Ireland, which has a law against foreign adoptions, does it make a difference how old they are now? When they were 8, 10, 12 years old, could the Irish government have taken them back and put them up for adoption to Irish parents if they could prove they were Irish? Presumably yes.* What about when they turn 18? Are they safe from something-like-extradition when they're officially adults and American citizens? As far as I can tell, at least one is 18 and the other is also 18 or will be soon. (An article linked above says one was born in the summer of 2000, and they're only 4 months apart in age.) If so, would that take away the threat to Roberts' family, and set him free to judge by the Constitution? I would hope so, but don't know.

*The stuff about born in Ireland vs born in Latin America makes sense if you assume that someone working for Roberts found a couple of pregnant Irish women who were poor enough or single enough to want to put their children up for adoption, and paid them to fly to Latin America to give birth and hand over the newborns to the Robertses there, without the babies ever taking a breath in Ireland. I imagine (e.g.) $10,000 + all expenses paid + a guarantee that they would stay in hotels and hospitals way above the Latin American average of quality would have done the job, giving the Robertses cute blond babies and the mothers plenty of money plus a prospect that their babies would grow up in a prosperous and successful household. Of course, that would violate the spirit of the Irish law against foreign adoptions, and maybe the letter, too, depending on how the law is phrased.

Posted by: Dr. Weevil at December 17, 2018 01:40 PM (sPgZ5)

348
The AMA doesn't have shit to say about anything. Few docs even belong anymore, they keep their membership numbers up by giving it free to students. They are dicks, and old dying dicks at that.

Speaking of dicks, state licensing boards should be taken out back and shot. They are a huge problem. and seem to go out of their way to fuck with physicians.

More doctors would be great. A new medical school opens every few years - it's a hell of a process - and a new Residency every year, sometimes several. It's also a process.

So the new docs can graduate with $250,000 in student loans.

So they go into left nostril surgery or some well reimbursing specialty instead of primary care. So you end up seeing a minimally trained NP at big box clinic who gives you antibiotics you don't need for the bacterial infection you don't have and gets you hooked on Ambien or worse.

The job sucks for many physicians and they are bailing left right and sideways. Yeah, there are specialists out there making big bucks, most though are doing nice enough but not driving Jags between their McMansions.

Medicare/Caid doomed medicine in his country and OCare was nothing but the tee-up for 100% government takeover. Free markets, interstate insurance and competition and direct primary care with some sort of safety net program a la New Zealand or Switzerland is the only hope.

And won't happen.

Posted by: Truth Hurts at December 17, 2018 01:43 PM (tsUHu)

349 And guess what's coming next? Taxpayer bailout for student loans.

Yes, you know those SJWs always hectoring you for your racist sexist homophobic nazi white privilege? We get to pay for their indoctrination.

Much like the families of Chinese dissidents forced to pay for ths firing squad's ammo.

Posted by: Fenrisulven at December 17, 2018 01:44 PM (xss3U)

350 At the last NoVaMoMe, I was talking to Gabe Malor about O-care and whatever the current post-SCOTUS challenge to the law was. He made some optimistic sounds and I replied "Whatever they had on Roberts last time, they still have on him this time." Pretty sure that that will be the case this time.

Roberts: "When I said it fell under Congress' ability to tax, I never meant it to include only taxes that were actually collected. It also covers any taxes they might think about using. One member of Congress right now is probably thinking about taxing men on the size of their junk. Even though no bill has been passed and signed, nor has even such a bill been proposed, it's a legitimate tax and therefore O-care is still constitutional."

Posted by: physics geek at December 17, 2018 02:06 PM (lSau+)

351 Let me tell you about my legal theory of Chimerical Penumbraic Emanations. It'll light your ass up, baby.

Posted by: John Roberts at December 17, 2018 02:20 PM (hjaPQ)

352 The answer to allow the sale of ANY plan anywhere.

The free market will eliminate any voluntary participation in Obamacare and even the people with pre-existing conditions wouldn't participate because there would be no suckers to subsidize them.

I understand there are some programs (high-risk pools, (anything else?)) for people with pre-conditions and that is the way to handle that.

The market and tort reform would reduce costs. Some small subsidy (maybe a small tax on the other plans (maximum 3 %) might be in order.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at December 17, 2018 02:38 PM (kfcYC)

353 The Volokh Conspiracy (a law profs blog) is near-unanimous that the Supreme Court, or even a federal circuit appeals court, will reverse the decision by the trial judge in Texas.
The problem with the trial judge's rationale is actually quite simple.
So long as the entire PPACA (ObamaCare law) stood as it was originally enacted, the courts had to treat the individual mandate as inseparable from the rest because the text of the PPACA said exactly that. But that changed when Congress in 2017 repealed the individual mandate while leaving the rest of the PPACA intact. It doesn't make sense to argue that Congress still considers the mandate inseparable from the rest of the law now that Congress itself has repealed the mandate but left the rest in place.

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