Wreckage of CV-2 <i>Lexington</i> Discovered

Wreckage of CV-2 Lexington Discovered

We've located the USS Lexington after she sank 76 yrs ago. #RVPetrel found the WWII aircraft carrier & planes more than 3000m (~2mi) below Coral Sea near Australia. We remember her brave crew who helped secure 1st strategic US win in the Pacific Theater https://t.co/20ehjafD7d pic.twitter.com/HIvxNUDbsX
— Paul Allen (@PaulGAllen) March 5, 2018

“Lady Lex” went down with 35 planes. So far, #RVPetrel has found 11 of them. Here’s a look at two Douglas TBD-1 Devastators, resting on top of each other, and a close up of a Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat. https://t.co/19CuqvopwB pic.twitter.com/FEWZYD0iEo
— Paul Allen (@PaulGAllen) March 6, 2018

Two miles below the surface of the Coral Sea, 78 years after her loss in that same battle.

Lead ship of her class, the next one, Saratoga CV-3 entered service in the same year, 1928 a month after Lady Lex.

CV-2 Lexington fought, sank in the Battle of Coral Sea. Lost in the end to battle damage and aviation fuel sparking uncontrollable fires, she was scuttled on May 8, 1942.

Lexington, leading Task Force 11 met with CV-5 Yorktown leading TF 17 and fought from 4-8 May 1942. Coral Sea is often called a tactical loss but the strategic victory was slowing down the Japanese advance on Port Moresby and ultimately turned into their defensive posture after Midway.

Coral Sea was one month before Midway. We fought to a tie at Coral Sea. We broke their back at Midway, lost CV-5 Yorktown (heavily damaged at Coral Sea) to 4 of theirs, Sōryū, Kaga, Akagi and Hiryu. In the Battle of Coral Sea we lost the CV-2 Lexington, the USS Sims DD-409, and oiler USS Neosho AO-23 (scuttled after battle damage)

CV-16 Lexington was to be named Cabot at the time of her construction in 1942 but when the news of the loss of CV-2 reached home the shp was renamed Lexington to commemorate Lady Lex (and likely to mess with the IJN in wartime).

Last August Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen and his team found the wreckage of the WWII cruiser CA-35 Indianapolis. Prior to that his other discoveries include locating the wreckage of the IJN battleship Musashi and an Italian destroyer Artigliere.

656 American sailors perished in the Battle of the Coral Sea.

Posted by: Dave In Texas at 02:49 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Fair winds and following seas, mates.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at March 06, 2018 02:44 PM (eytER)

2 hi D in T

Posted by: concrete girl at March 06, 2018 02:45 PM (SJBL7)

3 Minds and columns blown.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 06, 2018 02:45 PM (KXVP7)

4 Official navy Statement back in the day:

You have to expect a few losses in a big operation. "Scratch one Flattop."

Today: We ram defenseless cargo ships. USN 7th Fleet.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 02:46 PM (hyuyC)

5 DiT... Good to see you blogging here again.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 06, 2018 02:47 PM (pvjTE)

6 DiT, welcome back.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 02:48 PM (hyuyC)

7 Margins blown!!!

Posted by: Sandra Flook at March 06, 2018 02:49 PM (vtcmf)

8 DiT -
There's a name we haven't seen in a long while. Welcome home.

Posted by: Emma Watson at March 06, 2018 02:49 PM (jxbfJ)

9 The photos of the airplanes are amazing. Such good condition.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 02:49 PM (ATVNj)

10
Too bad we no longer name carriers after battles where we kicked Limey ass.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (BWL+E)

11
Trump and the Russians sank it.

- things you learn on CNN

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (r+sAi)

12 God bless the sailors who went down with her.

Posted by: joncelli, going phalangist at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (RD7QR)

13 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface, but with her size and being 2 miles down, sadly no. I didn't know she went down with aircraft. I thought they had enough time to get them off deck before scuttling, I guess not. Cool pics!

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (7qnb5)

14 My 'ol man's first cruise was aboard the old Lexington, about 1937. It was his only cruise aboard a surface ship. Shortly afterwards, his transfer to submarine school was approved. That's where he spent the next 20 years.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (0tfLf)

15 Located the Lexington?

As someone said earlier, "why didn't we know exactly where she was? We sank her".

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (utT6Q)

16
CV-2 Lexington fought, sank in the Battle of Coral Sea. Lost in the end to battle damage and aviation fuel sparking uncontrollable fires, she was scuttled on May 8, 1942.

Great story and pics but the U.S. Navy likely knew her exact location all along

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (lKyWE)

17 I can't imagine losing that many sailors but know we experienced worse.

R.I.P. USS Lexington

Posted by: Michael the Texan at March 06, 2018 02:52 PM (nvMvs)

18 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface....

Yeah they could dig underneath the seabottom and refurb them with warp engines and turbolasers.

Posted by: CNN at March 06, 2018 02:52 PM (Z5y53)

19 Well, may the souls of those lost on that ship be set free. God Bless them. And thank you.

Posted by: Sponge at March 06, 2018 02:53 PM (w8Rs1)

20 Almost, but not entirely, a sock fail.

Posted by: blaster at March 06, 2018 02:53 PM (Z5y53)

21 Wonder which pilot already had 4 kills before the Coral Sea

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 02:53 PM (h/uSM)

22 That one plane splashed four japs.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (utT6Q)

23 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface, but with her size and being 2 miles down, sadly no. I didn't know she went down with aircraft. I thought they had enough time to get them off deck before scuttling, I guess not. Cool pics!
Posted by: Minnfidel

That tech is called salvage pontoons. or lift bags.

It's just to outfit, balance, and brace the entire ship would cost billions if not trillions.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (KXVP7)

24 Well fuck me sideways.

Posted by: Holier than Thou Asshole Bot at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (SkuXa)

25 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface....

Yeah, about that.

Posted by: Dirk Pitt at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (AM1GF)

26 10
Too bad we no longer name carriers after battles where we kicked Limey ass.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (BWL+E)
______________________________________

Even better, she was built in Quincy, Mass. where a few of those patriots lived.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (ATVNj)

27 Great story and pics but the U.S. Navy likely knew her exact location all along

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (lKyWE)

Probably not to the degree of accuracy needed to pinpoint the wreck on the sea floor. They didn't have GPS in those days.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (Dbv1R)

28 "why didn't we know exactly where she was?

The definition of exactly has changed.

Posted by: DaveA at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (FhXTo)

29 A thousand lifetimes ago, when "Time's Up" meant something totally different. Such brave and honorable souls; may they always rest in peace.

Posted by: Ever at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (OLS0m)

30 The USS Neosho (AO-23) died hard. A real fighting ship.

Hand Salute. Two.

The USN learned a lot in the Coral Sea. We learned the hard way, and we were shot full of luck as well. Plus, we should have paid attention to how hard it was to sink Lexington with our own torpedoes.

We narrowly missed having an entire CA / DD force spotted and wiped out. And the loss of CV-2 led to much better damage control at Midway. We almost got Yorktown back from that battle.

Some of the heroism rewarded with Navy Crosses were incredible. Like the Engineering folks that walked the entire shaft trunks of Lexington.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (hyuyC)

31 A ship graveyard? I want to have sex in it.

Posted by: Megan Barry at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (Dn4Uq)

32 Those pictures are magnificent. I hope a book comes out with all of the pictures they took noting where on the wreck.

And just the paint remaining on all of those aircraft!

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (hLRSq)

33 21 Wonder which pilot already had 4 kills before the Coral Sea
_____________________________________

Either John Kerry or Brian Williams.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (ATVNj)

34 That tech is called salvage pontoons. or lift bags.

It's just to outfit, balance, and brace the entire ship would cost billions if not trillions.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM

Yea I've seen them do it on smaller vessels in more shallow water. I don't think you could with the depth anyway.

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (7qnb5)

35 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface....

OT but read the story of raising the Soviet sub up right under their noses. Our covert agencies weren't always so incompetent.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 06, 2018 02:55 PM (SEnIW)

36 Dusty in here...

Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (0OmEj)

37 We really have no way to thank those boys, but just the same, thank you boys.

Posted by: goon at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (EaQ6/)

38 I didn't know she went down with aircraft. I thought they had enough time to get them off deck before scuttling, I guess not. Cool pics!

---

i'd always guessed that they were destroyed by fire/explosions. There's even a photo of her burning with a plane being cartwheeled off the deck by an explosion.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (h/uSM)

39 Yeah, about that.

Posted by: Dirk Pitt at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (AM1GF)

My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.

Posted by: Sponge at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (w8Rs1)

40 Great story and pics but the U.S. Navy likely knew her exact location all along

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM

Very likely...and they respected it. It was a tomb after all of their fellow Sailors and Marines.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (0tfLf)

41 Wonder which pilot already had 4 kills before the Coral Sea

John McCain. Of course it was Americans, but you know.

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (7qnb5)

42 Shortly afterwards, his transfer to submarine school was approved. That's where he spent the next 20 years.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (0tfLf)

Not a good student?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (wYseH)

43 That's a VF-31 logo on the Wildcat; now designated VFA-31 (Strike Fighter Squadron), flying F/A-18E Super Hornets out of NAS Oceana. The squadron call sign is "Felix".

Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (uiwCw)

44 My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.
_______________________________________

My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.

Posted by: Clive Cussler at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (ATVNj)

45 As mentioned yesterday here, Australia remembers the Battle of the Coral Sea and appreciates it more than we do.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (8iiMU)

46 I watched Midway two weeks ago. The movie made many references to the Lexington and the Battle of the Coral Sea.

Posted by: Michael the Texan at March 06, 2018 02:58 PM (nvMvs)

47 15 Located the Lexington?

As someone said earlier, "why didn't we know exactly where she was? We sank her".
Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (utT6Q)

Its not like we had GPS back then...

And she was emergency scuttled... when they didn't know if the enemy was in the area or not...

I'd bet most there were not worried about an exact location.... more worried about the location of the Japanese Navy...

Posted by: Don Q. at March 06, 2018 02:58 PM (NgKpN)

48 Rich people and their money. This is a benefit of great wealth. True now as with most of history. Wealthy people can fund and lead causes, expeditions, etc. that others cannot and in case of Mr. Allen finding two great ships. Good on him.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2018 02:58 PM (sX1BW)

49 I didn't even know Paul Allen was so involved in wreckage recovery, etc.

Posted by: IC at March 06, 2018 02:59 PM (a0IVu)

50
I'd bet most there were not worried about an exact location.... more worried about the location of the Japanese Navy...
Posted by: Don Q. at March 06, 2018 02:58 PM (NgKpN)

Yeah but they would have made note of the location in the ships log

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:59 PM (lKyWE)

51
I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface....

It would probably break up.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 06, 2018 03:00 PM (IqV8l)

52 Sorry to go OT briefly, but Bitch McTurtle and Chuckee Schemer have such punchable faces. Big-boobed Shep!-in-training Liz Claman just flashed clips of them bitching about this potential tariff thing.

Posted by: Anchorbabe fashion bot at March 06, 2018 03:00 PM (8iiMU)

53 Two miles down? I never realized the Coral Sea was that deep.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llamabutcher at March 06, 2018 03:00 PM (q+PVW)

54 A little known story is how Lexington powered Tacoma back about 1929. There was a drought and the reservoirs for the hydro plants were nearly empty. Tacoma was without power for most of the day. Hoover ordered the Navy to do something so the turbo-electric drive Lexington tied up in Tacoma and was hooked into the city system, supplying power for about a month before the rains fell and the reservoirs filled up.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:00 PM (hLRSq)

55 14 My 'ol man's first cruise was aboard the old Lexington, about 1937. It was his only cruise aboard a surface ship. Shortly afterwards, his transfer to submarine school was approved. That's where he spent the next 20 years.
Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (0tfLf)

Congratulations to your father. I would not have wanted to spend WWII on a sub in the Pacific.

Posted by: Michael the Texan at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (nvMvs)

56 Great story and pics but the U.S. Navy likely knew her exact location all along
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (lKyWE)

---

'exact' probably being within a 20 mile circle. No GPS back in the day. Plus driftage during the 2 mile descent to the sea floor. probably scared the shit out of a bunch of crabs.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (h/uSM)

57 Yeah but they would have made note of the location in the ships log

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:59 PM (lKyWE)

Lat and long, based on dead reckoning from the last celestial navigation fix.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (Dbv1R)

58 Pretty cool stuff! My dad fought in WWII, and I've always loved history of that war. Crazy to think we went from Pearl Harbor to complete unconditional surrender of Axis powers in less than 4 years. Unbelievable what America can accomplish when we are all in it together, and put our minds and backs into it.

Posted by: SteveOReno at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (2sCft)

59 Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (uiwCw)

Huh, looks like the squadron was VF-6 at the time and was redesignated VF-31 in 1948.

Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (uiwCw)

60 My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.

Posted by: Amy Schumer at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (8iiMU)

61 Was there any treasure on board? Secret Vatican artifacts? Signs of Ancient Astronauts?

Posted by: Deep Roots at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (roQNm)

62 I can't fathom how deep that is.

Posted by: Ray Mabus at March 06, 2018 03:02 PM (ctuyM)

63 I wonder if they can retrieve the ship's bell or anchor and transfer it to Arlington?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 03:02 PM (ATVNj)

64
I didn't even know Paul Allen was so involved in wreckage recovery, etc.
Posted by: IC at March 06, 2018 02:59 PM (a0IVu)

He has a mega exploration yacht named Octopus that I believe he used to dive on the Yamamoto too. He's into it in a big way

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 03:02 PM (lKyWE)

65 37
We really have no way to thank those boys, but just the same, thank you boys.

Posted by: goon at March 06, 2018 02:56 PM (EaQ6/)

We can thank them by remembering them, their sacrifice and what it was they were fighting for. And pray for them, thanking the Almighty for their sacrifice.

Posted by: Emma Watson at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (jxbfJ)

66 Horde, I pray that we remember the sacrifice of great men who came before us. Fair winds an following seas.

Posted by: USNtakim prfoundly deplorable! at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (0OmEj)

67 Shortly afterwards, his transfer to submarine school was approved. That's where he spent the next 20 years.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 02:51 PM (0tfLf)

Not a good student?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM

Actually it was based on a a coin toss. He and two buddies were sitting at the Royal Hawaiian and in two tosses of a nickel one went to Destroyers, one became an air gunner, and dad went to Subs. He is the only one to survive the war.
He was at Pearl Harbor and made his first patrol not long after. Was promoted to Chief after his third patrol and never looked back.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (0tfLf)

68 Battle of the Coral Sea?

Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (8iiMU)

69 DiT! Long time no see!

Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (sjdRT)

70 Read Darkest Hour. No it's not Churchill. How the Ausie's lost Rabaul. It's grim.

Posted by: Butter Face - smooooth at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (K3B2k)

71 There's a lot of glass featured in the new Apple headquarters - including the mind-blowing four-storey sliding glass doors of the cafeteria. When employees started moving in earlier this year, the world quickly caught wind of a nasty side-effect of this design decision.

Straight away, several staff members walked into glass panes, and on at least three occasions the injuries were bad enough to warrant a 911 call, according to reports by the San Fancisco Chronicle.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (e8kgV)

72 I don't care about this. Too preoccupied with thoughts of hot, dirty, Democrat Mayor sex.

Posted by: regular joe at March 06, 2018 03:04 PM (kb0cx)

73 My 'ol man's first cruise was aboard the old Lexington, about 1937. It was his only cruise aboard a surface ship. Shortly afterwards, his transfer to submarine school was approved. That's where he spent the next 20 years.
Posted by: Diogenes
..........
You would think they'd at least be able to hoist some of those planes up to the surface..

There's no oxygen down there to corrode the metal.. they look like they are in incredibly good shape!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at March 06, 2018 03:04 PM (so+oy)

74 Straight away, several staff members walked into glass panes, and on at least three occasions the injuries were bad enough to warrant a 911 call, according to reports by the San Fancisco Chronicle.

Posted by: undocumented illegal SMOD at March 06, 2018 03:03 PM (e8kgV)

Interesting juxtaposition with this post.

Posted by: blaster at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (Z5y53)

75 The ship broke up upon sinking and is in four pieces. ROVs is the only way to see it.

Still, I would expect a lot more deterioration in such relatively warm waters.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (hyuyC)

76 >>Straight away, several staff members walked into glass panes, and on at least three occasions the injuries were bad enough to warrant a 911 call, according to reports by the San Fancisco Chronicle.

No surprise that Apple employees can't deal with windows.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (/tuJf)

77 By the way, Project Azorian cost 800 million at the time. I'm sure that would be more than a few billion in today's money.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (SEnIW)

78 My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.
_______________________________________

Posted by: Clive Cussler at March 06, 2018 02:57 PM (ATVNj)

My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan, but found him stuck in a rut and the stories became repetitive.
------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Amy Schumer at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (EyPfd)

79 Huh, looks like the squadron was VF-6 at the time and was redesignated VF-31 in 1948.

Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM (uiwCw)

At that time VF-6 would have been aboard Enterprise, CV-6.

Early on the carriers had their original airgroups. The attrition was so great that swapping airgroups in and out was what we did. Yorktown CV-5 went to Midway with Saratoga's airgroup 3, the Saratoga being back home getting torpedo damage repaired. Hornet CV-8 lost all but one man out of VT-8 at Midway.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (hLRSq)

80 72
I don't care about this. Too preoccupied with thoughts of hot, dirty, Democrat Mayor sex.

Posted by: regular joe at March 06, 2018 03:04 PM (kb0cx)

Talk about headstones....

Posted by: BJ Clinton at March 06, 2018 03:06 PM (8iiMU)

81 >Posted by: JackStraw at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (/tuJf)

Golf clap.

Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2018 03:06 PM (sjdRT)

82 There's no oxygen down there to corrode the metal.. they look like they are in incredibly good shape!
_____________________________________

If they can ID the planes, they can tell us who flew them and earned the four Jap kills and a bomb strike.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 03:06 PM (ATVNj)

83 Probably not to the degree of accuracy needed to pinpoint the wreck on the sea floor. They didn't have GPS in those days.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM (Dbv1R)

Right. We've probably known the location within 60 miles or so since the battle.

Plus, we've only been able to research objects at that depth for the last 15 years or so.

Posted by: Michael the Texan at March 06, 2018 03:06 PM (nvMvs)

84 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface....
=======
There is no try, only do . . .

Posted by: master Yoda at March 06, 2018 03:07 PM (RSl5c)

85 62 Ray Mabus

--Snort-- Ray, you wanted Dinks and Twinks for your personal crew. Tool.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:07 PM (hyuyC)

86 Ok, so now we know where the Lex is... But what were they down there looking for in the first place? Seems like this is a side show covering a real purpose... Anyone have a guess?

Posted by: nsamike at March 06, 2018 03:07 PM (cGFTW)

87 OT:

San Francisco passed a proposition to allow non-citizens voting rights in school elections.

Then they realized that their own voting rolls could be used as a registry to find illegals.

Now they're trying to figure out how to warn all these illegals not to register to vote, because Trump might use this registry for purposes other than their original intent. They're estimating half a million per year to keep all the illegals informed against putting themselves on this registry.

L effing O. L.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybr94ngt

Posted by: bonhomme at March 06, 2018 03:07 PM (iv0p7)

88 Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:00 PM (hLRSq)

No way that is true. Drought on the west coast are a current phenomenon caused by global warming.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 06, 2018 03:08 PM (SEnIW)

89 She, and the planes look good.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at March 06, 2018 03:08 PM (EyPfd)

90 Some main character who should by all rights have drowned manages to survive by staying underwater longer than anyone would think possible, creating a tension-filled passage for the reader who hasn't read every other Clive Cussler Book.

Posted by: Every Clive Cussler Book, Ever at March 06, 2018 03:08 PM (Dn4Uq)

91 Straight away, several staff members walked into glass panes, and on at least three occasions the injuries were bad enough to warrant a 911 call, according to reports by the San Fancisco Chronicle.

No surprise that Apple employees can't deal with windows.
Posted by: JackStraw

Golf clap.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2018 03:08 PM (utT6Q)

92 That could well be Butch O'Hare's plane

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 03:08 PM (h/uSM)

93 Funny thing, I recall reading that the Japanese kept airgroups assigned to carriers, so if an airgroup got shot up the carrier was withdrawn to bring the airgroup back to strength instead of having spare airgroups that could be swapped in. Put that in place with their incredibly slow to panic-speed pilot training programs I am surprised their carriers were effective as long as they were.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (hLRSq)

94 But what were they down there looking for in the first place?

Looking for the lizard people, obvi.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (iv0p7)

95 Anyone have a guess?
Posted by: nsamike

Russian prostitutes that got the goods on Trump!

Posted by: Bruce at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (8ikIW)

96
Ok, so now we know where the Lex is... But what were they down there looking for in the first place? Seems like this is a side show covering a real purpose... Anyone have a guess?

Posted by: nsamike at March 06, 2018 03:07 PM (cGFTW)

Pual Allen is a multi billionaire who loves looking for sunken ships

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (lKyWE)

97 Yeah but they would have made note of the location in the ships log
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 06, 2018 02:59 PM (lKyWE)

Based on dead reckoning, as they were not in sight of land... and she was scuttled 'in the evening'.... to prevent capture.

After an entire day of combat maneuvering...

sure.... the location would have been logged... but navigation was more Art, than Science, back then..

Posted by: Don Q. at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (NgKpN)

98 Ok, so now we know where the Lex is... But what were they down there looking for in the first place? Seems like this is a side show covering a real purpose... Anyone have a guess?
Posted by: nsamike

Looking for Russian collusion.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 06, 2018 03:09 PM (utT6Q)

99 I guess now I'm plotting to have some cemetary secks too.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 06, 2018 03:10 PM (Dn4Uq)

100 Pual Allen is a multi billionaire who loves looking for sunken ships

-------------

We should probably just confiscate all his wealth.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2018 03:10 PM (sX1BW)

101 79 Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet!

That operational flexibility, of having squadrons on a different carrier, was a great USN strength. The IJN could have had a more robust Midway TF (including at least one more fleet CV) if they had done the same thing. But the IJN did not, and lost big at Midway.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:10 PM (hyuyC)

102 Congratulations to your father. I would not have wanted to spend WWII on a sub in the Pacific.

Posted by: Michael the Texan at March 06, 2018 03:01 PM

He actually liked it. A small group of men capable of sinking enemy ships. And close camaraderie. (He said the best movie he ever saw was Das Boot.) But he always said the best part was in bad weather they could go down a hundred feet and never spill the coffee.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:10 PM (0tfLf)

103 Had an uncle go down with the Sims, as a quirk of fate, while being a staff weenie in C7F, had the honor and privilege to participate in the 50th anniversary memorial of the battle. Iron men they were.

Posted by: Sumdumchief at March 06, 2018 03:10 PM (tW1qs)

104 We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

You people are not on your A game today.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 06, 2018 03:11 PM (/tuJf)

105 The Lexington and Saratoga were originally laid down as Washington Treaty "battle cruisers", which the US Navy actually never built (as the British and Germans did).

Sometime after the experiments with the old Langley, the two were converted to flat tops. They were bigger (deadweight displacement) than the Yorktown/Hornet /Enterprise class of carriers (and later the Essex class) but did not carry as big an air wing, because of the hangar deck, etc. design.

Saratoga survived the war, and was sunk at one of the A-bomb atoll tests.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....outlaw in America at March 06, 2018 03:11 PM (vcOmj)

106 My mom used to be a big Clive Cussler fan,

I'M ON A BOAT!

Posted by: Ben Roethlisberger at March 06, 2018 03:12 PM (FhXTo)

107 Listen Mike, I told you to stay over at LGF, this is my gig.

Posted by: Bob at the NSA at March 06, 2018 03:12 PM (r+sAi)

108 23
I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would
bring massive ships like that back to the surface,

That tech is called salvage pontoons. or lift bags.

It's just to outfit, balance, and brace the entire ship would cost billions if not trillions.
----------------
It would be hard to get a big enough bowl of rice to put it in. But it could be done...

Posted by: El Carbon Azzprint at March 06, 2018 03:13 PM (foYMy)

109 The photos are absolutely wonderful. Ah technology.

Posted by: Tuna at March 06, 2018 03:13 PM (jm1YL)

110 Damn, I missed the DTF thread!

Posted by: Concerned People's Front Splitter Chapter at March 06, 2018 03:13 PM (rdl6o)

111 Good to see you, Dave in Texas.

Thanks for the thread.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (xJa6I)

112 104 We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

You people are not on your A game today.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 06, 2018 03:11 PM (/tuJf)

Well, you just mentioned him.

Posted by: Surfperch at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (D7HXY)

113 >Still, I would expect a lot more deterioration in such relatively warm waters.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (hyuyC)

The depth here is about 3,000 meters. Water temp is probably less than 5 C.

https://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/temp.html

Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (sjdRT)

114 Silly, panic-generating big-boobed Shep!-in-training Liz Claman opened her show with something to the effect of "the tariffs are making investors hopping mad".

The DOW was up 18 points at that time. It's now down 26 points. Just random noise.

She really needs to just take off her snug white top and shut up for an hour.

Posted by: Anchorbabe fashion cop at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (8iiMU)

115 We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

You people are not on your A game today.

==

Just trying to be creative. Don't want to be repetitious as it seems to annoy some people.

Posted by: Deep Roots at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (roQNm)

116 And good on Paul Allen. He might have personality problems but he's using his money for more than just personal self-aggrandizement.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:15 PM (xJa6I)

117 We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

Quint was on the Indianapolis, not the Lexington. I strive to be historically accurate when referencing pop culture.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 06, 2018 03:15 PM (iv0p7)

118 >She really needs to just take off her snug white top and shut up for an hour.

Amen.

Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2018 03:15 PM (sjdRT)

119 >>Quint was on the Indianapolis, not the Lexington. I strive to be historically accurate when referencing pop culture.

So you didn't read ALL the content.

I'm telling.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (/tuJf)

120 112
104 We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

Quint was quoted without attribution in the Mayor DTF thread.

Posted by: Anchorbabe fashion cop at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (8iiMU)

121 Nope. Not O'Hare. He went back to the States after earning the MoH

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (h/uSM)

122 The depth here is about 3,000 meters. Water temp is probably less than 5 C.

Probably over 150C now because of global warming.

Posted by: Bruce at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (8ikIW)

123 Robert A. Heinlein was a communications officer aboard Lexington when she was new.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (H5rtT)

124 When I was a young "swab" stationed in San Diego, I attended church with a veteran WWII sailor named Bill H. who had served aboard 'Lady Lex' and was on the ship when it was sunk. Bill told me all about how the Japanese planes made their approach and their attack (Bill worked on the flight deck and was in the perfect position to witness the whole thing.) I was 18 or 19 at the time that Bill told me the story (about 1981 or 82) and I that I was standing next to a great man, and so I was all ears whenever he told me all his sea stories. He relived things in his mind as he did so, but always with a smile. Bill told me how some sailors were killed who had been standing next to him and how he jumped in the water when the order came to abandon ship and was picked up by another ship (I think by a "tin can"-- or destroyer.) He went on to fight in other battles, but the sinking of the Lexington was the most interesting story that I recall. Bill did 30 years in he navy (I did 20) and retired. What I remember most about him was his calloused and POWERFUL hands. I always imagined how immensely strong he would have been in his twenties. I wanted no part of him even when I was young and he was an old timer. But he was a very nice man and always came and said hello to me after Sunday service and asked me how things in the navy were going. As the saying goes, they don't make 'em like they used to.

Posted by: Andy in FL at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (Wi6+I)

125 CV-16 is a museum ship in Corpus Christi. I've visited several times.

Posted by: stace at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (gr5t5)

126 Just trying to be creative. Don't want to be repetitious as it seems to annoy some people.

Yeah, repetitious like Clive Cussler. He's in a rut and his stories are repetitive.

Posted by: WitchDoktor, AKA VA GOP Sucks at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (PFy0L)

127 Message traffic about the pilots of the Coral Sea who scored hits against the Japanese:

https://tinyurl.com/ybdsq7oa

Nine hits. The pilots are named.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (MnkFD)

128 Paul Allen found where the Lex went down, but is still looking for the cemetery where the Nashville Mayor did.

Posted by: Mel Gibson at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (+087i)

129 Quint was quoted without attribution in the Mayor DTF thread
==========
First Tuesday in March is always Quint Tuesday.

Posted by: master Yoda at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (vCCfM)

130 sure.... the location would have been logged... but navigation was more Art, than Science, back then..

---

Try being an Aviator.

We'll be somewhere's around here in 4 hours. Try to find us!

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (h/uSM)

131 112 Hot new poll from Quinipiac says 67% want an awb, 81% want 21+ for buying guns and 91% are cool with taking guns away without due process.

Posted by: Jeff the AG Guy at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (0LHZx)

99% of those surveyed want a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Don't doubt us or our methods, we are not pushing an agenda of any kind.

Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (D7HXY)

132 off sock of big eared green alien

Posted by: simplemind at March 06, 2018 03:18 PM (YNEiB)

133 I remember sitting in a restaurant watching the 2001 NCAA National Championship game where Duke beat somebody and at the table next to me was an old man showing his grandson a portfolio full of pictures. The photos were all of the Lady Lex under sail and in combat operations and then the sinking and it was simply amazing. He had about 200 photos of which most people have only seen about four of them in history books.

I remember walking over to him after the game and putting my hand on his shoulder and telling him thank you for being out there when we needed him. I wish I had that portfolio.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 06, 2018 03:18 PM (+BKF+)

134 Coral Sea is an interesting battle.

Tactically a draw, it has wider strategic effects. One being to shake up the Japanese confidence. Another was preventing additional carriers being present at Midway. (one or two more Japanese Carriers would have probably given the battle to Japan) It also helped prevent an invasion of Australia (If I'm recalling rightly, correct me if wrong) at a time when there were insufficient ground troops to defend ANZAC.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:18 PM (xJa6I)

135 125 CV-16 is a museum ship in Corpus Christi. I've visited several times.
Posted by: stace at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (gr5t5)

Its a good museum.
My flight instructor used to take trainees out of NAS Beeville to do training on her in the gulf. The good ol days before BRAC.

Posted by: Mel Gibson at March 06, 2018 03:18 PM (+087i)

136 Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse Grumble
Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:05 PM (hLRSq)

Looks like there may have also (according to wiki) been some bickering between VF-3 and VF-6 about who owned the Felix logo around that time.

Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 03:19 PM (uiwCw)

137 Andy in FL

Cool!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:19 PM (hyuyC)

138 Off sock

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2018 03:19 PM (+087i)

139 Posted by: Andy in FL at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM (Wi6+I)

Great story. Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at March 06, 2018 03:20 PM (8iiMU)

140 So did the Nashville mayor give oral testimony?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:20 PM (nBr1j)

141 It also helped prevent an invasion of Australia (If I'm recalling rightly, correct me if wrong) at a time when there were insufficient ground troops to defend ANZAC.

------------

An invasion of Australia in 1941 - 42 seems like it would have been a bad idea. Not sure I can say the same thing now.

Posted by: SH at March 06, 2018 03:20 PM (sX1BW)

142 But I think we are missing the most important part: Did the lack of mandatory sexual harassment training lead to sinking of the Lexington?

I think it did.

Posted by: Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-NY at March 06, 2018 03:21 PM (MnkFD)

143 Thank God for the US Military.

Posted by: simplemind at March 06, 2018 03:21 PM (8DfQp)

144
99% of those surveyed want a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Don't doubt us or our methods, we are not pushing an agenda of any kind.
Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:17 PM (D7HXY)

No one believes these shit polls. If they did, Nancy would be hanging from the Capitol spire gavel in hand to call for a vote

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2018 03:21 PM (+087i)

145 An invasion of Australia in 1941 - 42 seems like it would have been a bad idea. Not sure I can say the same thing now.
Posted by: SH at March 06, 2018 03:20 PM (sX1BW)

Well, they say a people get the government they deserve. Which is too bad, I like most of the Aussies I've met. A few were raging progs but most were very laid back, 'don't tread on me' types.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:22 PM (xJa6I)

146 140
So did the Nashville mayor give oral testimony?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:20 PM (nBr1j)

testemony
FIFY

Posted by: Anchorbabe fashion cop at March 06, 2018 03:22 PM (8iiMU)

147 So you didn't read ALL the content.

I'm telling.

Aw, hell.

Posted by: bonhomme at March 06, 2018 03:22 PM (iv0p7)

148 118 >She really needs to just take off her snug white top and shut up for an hour.

Amen.
Posted by: Muad'dib at March 06, 2018 03:15 PM (sjdRT)

+++
Honestly, isn't that the correct answer in almost every situation?

Posted by: SteveOReno at March 06, 2018 03:24 PM (2sCft)

149 Posted by: Andy in FL at March 06, 2018 03:16 PM @124.

Great story.
I met an old fellow in Kona last year who was part of the Lexington's crew but had been arrested on shore leave before she set sail. He was in the brig when she went down. It affected him to that very day. Once he got out (Captain's Mast?) he went on to be a very good sailor and finished the war.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:24 PM (0tfLf)

150 Rabaul was the target. Australia was beyond the ability of the IJA and IJN. Logistically impossible for them.

But the Aussies did not know, and they were practically defenseless. Their best troops were in the Middle East fighting Rommel.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (hyuyC)

151 If the crews of these ships were more diverse they wouldn't have sunk. Diversity is a Strength!!!

Posted by: A Guy That Says Poppycock at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (2LelM)

152 Impressive, gives me goosebumps

Posted by: pontiacdoug at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (mkKSe)

153 115
We are over 100 comments in and still no mention of Quint?

You people are not on your A game today.

==

Just trying to be creative. Don't want to be repetitious as it seems to annoy some people.

Posted by: Deep Roots at March 06, 2018 03:14 PM (roQNm)

In before Coburn

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at March 06, 2018 03:26 PM (ymnmz)

154 "Quinnipiac" in the Algonquin language means "emasculated wanderer who is hated by all of the other tribes."

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 06, 2018 03:26 PM (MnkFD)

155 Bless and comfort the souls of all those brave men.

Posted by: GuyfromNH at March 06, 2018 03:26 PM (Gs5TH)

156 Looks like there may have also (according to wiki) been some bickering between VF-3 and VF-6 about who owned the Felix logo around that time.

Posted by: Bert G aka Country Singer at March 06, 2018 03:19 PM (uiwCw)

I'm on a IIRC with where the airgroups *exactly* were. After Coral Sea and Midway the attrition was pretty intense and the carriers did need to pull back and reequip before they were sent to cover Guadalcanal. Shuffling them around (and CVEs were a God-send for bringing up fresh airgroups) was just getting started.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:26 PM (hLRSq)

157 Has the Samuel B Roberts ever been located in Leyte Gulf? Got a chance to spend time with one of the survivors that got off the ship before it sunk.

Would love to have Allen go up and locate that small group of escort class ships that turned into the IJN to keep them out of range of the landings.

Would be a nice thing to see.

Posted by: H Badger at March 06, 2018 03:27 PM (n/0Nw)

158 These running jokes are out of control!

Posted by: Max Power at March 06, 2018 03:27 PM (q177U)

159 150 Rabaul was the target. Australia was beyond the ability of the IJA and IJN. Logistically impossible for them.

But the Aussies did not know, and they were practically defenseless. Their best troops were in the Middle East fighting Rommel.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (hyuyC)

According to my Corregidor tour guide the Japanese budgeted two days to take Corregidor. The fact the Americans and Filipinos held out for more like four months meant Japanese troops intended for Papua New Guinea had to be diverted to Corregidor, which, in turn, allowed the Australians to defeat the Japanese on PNG.
Who knows how the war in the Pacific would have gone then.
That's based on my very shallow knowledge.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:28 PM (nBr1j)

160 150 Rabaul was the target. Australia was beyond the ability of the IJA and IJN. Logistically impossible for them.

But the Aussies did not know, and they were practically defenseless. Their best troops were in the Middle East fighting Rommel.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (hyuyC)

I agree they couldn't take and occupy AUS. I think the intent was to force a surrender but I need to go back and read more.

I know they had seriously planned on taking and holding NZ prior to Coral Sea and Guadalcanal.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:28 PM (xJa6I)

161 Final comment before I return to work.

The crews did not transfer as much back then.

So a considerable number of the senior enlisted had been on the Lex their entire career. That made the emotional impact on the survivors much greater. Their life-blood had keep the ship going for over a decade. It was home.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:28 PM (hyuyC)

162 Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2018 03:21 PM (+087i)

According to our super accurate and trustworthy polls (tm) Nancy Pelosi has a 90% approval rating nationwide.

Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (D7HXY)

163 I spent 5 years in HI and worked around the Pacific, the WWII vibe is everywhere. Kwaj, Okinawa, Oahu. It never gets old.

Posted by: pontiacdoug at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (mkKSe)

164 And less than a month before the 2016 election the Q had Hillary 47-40 over Trump with Johnson getting 7...

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (+087i)

165 162 Posted by: Jollyroger at March 06, 2018 03:21 PM (+087i)

According to our super accurate and trustworthy polls (tm) Nancy Pelosi has a 90% approval rating nationwide.
Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (D7HXY)

Yay for dementia.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (nBr1j)

166 Sabaton hasn't got a song about the Coral Sea but

https://youtu.be/h_5sK6VK0Hg

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Broke, Woke, Toke, Joke at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (+y/Ru)

167 I had a summer job working at a pharmacy in high school.
An older gent came in one day sporting a CV 2 hat.

I was flabbergasted and asked if he had been on the Lexington. He was equally surprised some one as young as I knew what that hat meant.

My boss and I ( he was a Nam vet) listened to that guy for over an hour to that guy. Best day on that job for me.

Posted by: Big V at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (6IQHC)

168 Another day in the books. Looks like beer-thirty.

Wonder if Paul Allan has tried to find the disappeared vessels and planes in the Bermuda Triangle.

Posted by: Traveling Man&&& at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (7RHIN)

169 163 I spent 5 years in HI and worked around the Pacific, the WWII vibe is everywhere. Kwaj, Okinawa, Oahu. It never gets old.
Posted by: pontiacdoug at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (mkKSe)

Good. I worry about people's memories about the
realities of back then.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (xJa6I)

170 Thanks, Dave in Texas, and thanks to the others here who shared some neat related stories.

Reading and thinking about something like this makes me feel extremely humble and very lucky.

Posted by: RM at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (U3LtS)

171 According to our super accurate and trustworthy polls (tm) Nancy Pelosi has a 90% approval rating nationwide.

This is accurate. We love her here.

Posted by: Peruvia at March 06, 2018 03:31 PM (vtcmf)

172 It must have been a real gut-check for the crew that had to torpedo the Lex., not knowing how many where still on board, wounded or trapped, waiting for help to come. I hope that as the years rolled by that sleep came easier.

Posted by: goon at March 06, 2018 03:31 PM (EaQ6/)

173 169
I share your concern

Posted by: pontiacdoug at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (mkKSe)

174 157 Has the Samuel B Roberts ever been located in Leyte Gulf? Got a chance to spend time with one of the survivors that got off the ship before it sunk.

Would love to have Allen go up and locate that small group of escort class ships that turned into the IJN to keep them out of range of the landings.

Would be a nice thing to see.

Posted by: H Badger at March 06, 2018 03:27 PM

For those who have not, read "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors."
We have Valley Forge, The Alamo, Custer, Battle of the Bulge, and the Ia Drang Valley. But the fight that the Samuel B Roberts was in to turn the Japanese fleet stands as every bit their equal. Unbelievable odds and incredible bravery.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (0tfLf)

175 According to our super accurate and trustworthy polls (tm) Nancy Pelosi has a 90% approval rating nationwide.

Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:29 PM (D7HXY)

Is that a North Korean polling firm?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (aVYsC)

176 166 Sabaton hasn't got a song about the Coral Sea but

https://youtu.be/h_5sK6VK0Hg
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Broke, Woke, Toke, Joke at March 06, 2018 03:30 PM (+y/Ru)

Awesome. Just getting into Saxon and Sabaton.

Gotta hunt down the movies used in that video.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (xJa6I)

177 Diogenes...
In '85 I checked into a new command (ACU-1 @ NAB Coronado) and the master chief gave me his speech (as he did with all newly arriving personnel). I was an E-5, 2nd class at the time. He said in his first hitch in the navy he went captain's mast once or twice a year. Well, 20+ years later he was an E-9 and apparently grew up somewhere along the way. His lesson was that one captain's mast these days (1985) and you'll likely be discharged or not recommended for reenlistment. Young people would no longer be allowed time to grow up. Now days it's even worse.

Posted by: Andy in FL at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (Wi6+I)

178 My seventh grade math teacher was in Pearl Harbor during the infamous attack on December 7, 1941. For the life of me, I can't remember which ship he was on.

Posted by: Traveling Man&&& at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (7RHIN)

179 Generic Ballot is D+100. Take our word for it, we are the most accurate polling company.

Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (D7HXY)

180 In shocking a development, researchers have found a missing Navy ship that the Trump Administration knew was missing but never knew where.

In addition to this administration's staggering lack of military knowledge, no one from the administration has yet condemned the inappropriate and disturbing use of the sexist term "Lady Lex" to describe the ship.

Let's go to women's rights activist Gloria Allred for her take on this shocking embarrassment to a White House already in crisis.

Posted by: Lester Holt at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (MnkFD)

181 Who knows how the war in the Pacific would have gone then.
That's based on my very shallow knowledge.
Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:28 PM (nBr1j)

---

We built 12 Essex Fleet carriers and 10 light carriers plus dozens of escort carriers from 43-45. There was no question of the outcome, just the body count before we won.

Posted by: Buzzsaw90 at March 06, 2018 03:34 PM (h/uSM)

182 178 My seventh grade math teacher was in Pearl Harbor during the infamous attack on December 7, 1941. For the life of me, I can't remember which ship he was on.
Posted by: Traveling Man&&& at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (7RHIN)

Wife's dad was on board the Nevada. If you jumped over the left side you lived, the right you died. He was listed as missing, presumed dead for 3 days.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 06, 2018 03:34 PM (VM6ev)

183 172 It must have been a real gut-check for the crew that had to torpedo the Lex., not knowing how many where still on board, wounded or trapped, waiting for help to come. I hope that as the years rolled by that sleep came easier.
-----------------------
It really doesn't. Watching my dad go down he wanted to see copies of his Companies' Daily Reports from Iwo. I think what bugged him most was how many replacements went through his company that he couldn't remember. It bothered him for the rest of his life.

Posted by: A Guy That Says Poppycock at March 06, 2018 03:35 PM (2LelM)

184 180 In shocking a development, researchers have found a missing Navy ship that the Trump Administration knew was missing but never knew where.

In addition to this administration's staggering lack of military knowledge, no one from the administration has yet condemned the inappropriate and disturbing use of the sexist term "Lady Lex" to describe the ship.

Let's go to women's rights activist Gloria Allred for her take on this shocking embarrassment to a White House already in crisis.
Posted by: Lester Holt at March 06, 2018 03:33 PM (MnkFD)

I almost believe this to be other than snark.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 06, 2018 03:35 PM (nBr1j)

185 13 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface,
===
All anime fans know it can be done!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYd8dC_WDVw

Posted by: exdem13 at March 06, 2018 03:35 PM (W+kMI)

186 and the palm goes to nimitz. (imho)

extraordinary guts. having lost nearly all of his assets at pearl harbor he goes on the offensive, seeks out a numerically superior enemy in far distant waters and stops them. then again, he sorties at midway with the last of his offensive weapons.

just remarkable. one of the great commanders of ww II.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 06, 2018 03:36 PM (Pg+x7)

187 And Townsville Australia is pretty good liberty...

Posted by: Sumdumchief at March 06, 2018 03:36 PM (tW1qs)

188 Allen has quite a WWII museum.

https://tinyurl.com/yvu2fr

Posted by: tu3031 at March 06, 2018 03:36 PM (O5Q3r)

189 IIRC the Japanese target was Port Moresby on the south coast of New Guinea. From a base there Japanese aircraft could patrol and attack over a wide area, interdicting some of the traffic between the US and Australia.

In support, the Japanese also dropped some troops and construction crews on this island called Guadalcanal to build an airfield that would support that interdiction. The Lexington and Yorktown raided Guadalcanal and Tulagi and sank a light carrier, Shoho, in one of the supporting groups before the big clash with Shokaku and Zuikaku.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Live Life to The Foulest! Grouse & Grumble Gear on Sale at The Outrage Outlet! at March 06, 2018 03:36 PM (hLRSq)

190 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface,

It's a graveyard. Leave it alone.

Posted by: tu3031 at March 06, 2018 03:37 PM (O5Q3r)

191 For those who have not, read "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors."
We have Valley Forge, The Alamo, Custer, Battle of the Bulge, and the Ia Drang Valley. But the fight that the Samuel B Roberts was in to turn the Japanese fleet stands as every bit their equal. Unbelievable odds and incredible bravery.
Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (0tfLf)

*bookmarked*
*Added to wishlist*

Thanks man.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:37 PM (xJa6I)

192 Trump shown to have 0% approval rating in our new super-accurate poll (tm).

Posted by: Quinninipianinicnac Polling Institute at March 06, 2018 03:37 PM (D7HXY)

193 Andy,
Had a similar experience in my Army career. As a senior at Washington State Army ROTC, we had a new Senior NCO come in...and E-8. He made no apologies about the 8 Article 15's he had. He told us that if you have a soldier in your platoon who has earned one, don't discard the kid...he may be just the kind of guy you need when the poopoo hits the air displacement system.
A great NCO!

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:38 PM (0tfLf)

194 It's a graveyard. Leave it alone.

Wait, what?

Posted by: Mayor Meghan Barry at March 06, 2018 03:38 PM (ATVNj)

195 177 Diogenes...
In '85 I checked into a new command (ACU-1 @ NAB Coronado) and the master chief gave me his speech (as he did with all newly arriving personnel). I was an E-5, 2nd class at the time. He said in his first hitch in the navy he went captain's mast once or twice a year. Well, 20+ years later he was an E-9 and apparently grew up somewhere along the way. His lesson was that one captain's mast these days (1985) and you'll likely be discharged or not recommended for reenlistment. Young people would no longer be allowed time to grow up. Now days it's even worse.
---------------
Andy, that doesn't happen anymore. Its a zero defect Navy/Marine Corps now. I saw the transition during the 80s. We had salty SNCOs and Boy Scout SGTs. One bad mark and you would never make Staff.

Posted by: A Guy That Says Poppycock at March 06, 2018 03:38 PM (2LelM)

196 157 Has the Samuel B Roberts ever been located in Leyte Gulf? Got a chance to spend time with one of the survivors that got off the ship before it sunk.

Would love to have Allen go up and locate that small group of escort class ships that turned into the IJN to keep them out of range of the landings.

Would be a nice thing to see.

Posted by: H Badger at March 06, 2018 03:27 PM (n/0Nw)

Just watched a documentary about Leyte. What a fight they put up and in the end, Kurita and Toyoda totally misread what was happening and retreated. A miracle, but it does not take away from the incredible bravery of Taffy 3(?) in that battle.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 06, 2018 03:38 PM (VM6ev)

197 It's a graveyard. Leave it alone.
Posted by: tu3031 at March 06, 2018 03:37 PM (O5Q3r)

Ooooo tell me more.

Posted by: DTF Ex-Nashville Mayor at March 06, 2018 03:39 PM (tKW45)

198 Diogenes,

Hell of a book.

You'll see a picture of Dudley Moylan within the book. Got to spend time with him a a bar by my old house in Minneapolis where he would go most nights for dinner or if he was a allowed that night a vodka.

Picture up of him still in the bar and I would venture to guess that not many people have or had any idea what he had been a part of...I usually got blank stares when I would tell people there the story of his ship and others that day.

Posted by: H Badger at March 06, 2018 03:39 PM (n/0Nw)

199 It's just to outfit, balance, and brace the entire ship would cost billions if not trillions.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 06, 2018 02:54 PM

Yea I've seen them do it on smaller vessels in more shallow water. I don't think you could with the depth anyway.

Posted by: Minnfidel

---

The change in atmospheric pressure is immense. The lift needed to move a vessel that size on the bottom would burst the lift bags from overpressure long before the surface. Atmospheric pressure increases by 15 psi every 33 feet of depth, and vice versa.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 06, 2018 03:39 PM (7ZVPa)

200 ... he didn't go on the defensive protecting his base or the homeland, or wait to build up his forces. no. with the cost of defeat catastrophic, he attacks.

and wins.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 06, 2018 03:39 PM (Pg+x7)

201 Nood

Posted by: tu3031 at March 06, 2018 03:40 PM (O5Q3r)

202 Nood.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 06, 2018 03:40 PM (tKW45)

203 Nood lawsuit

Posted by: Max Power at March 06, 2018 03:40 PM (q177U)

204 186 and the palm goes to nimitz. (imho)

extraordinary guts. having lost nearly all of his assets at pearl harbor he goes on the offensive, seeks out a numerically superior enemy in far distant waters and stops them. then again, he sorties at midway with the last of his offensive weapons.

just remarkable. one of the great commanders of ww II.
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 06, 2018 03:36 PM (Pg+x7)

And a hat tip to King, who fought tooth and nail to get men and planes to the Pacific theater when everyone else wanted them sent to Africa.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:40 PM (xJa6I)

205 I always wished there was some kind of cool technology that would bring massive ships like that back to the surface,

-------------------------

Glomar Explorer Embiggened.

Posted by: RioBravo at March 06, 2018 03:40 PM (5NMZN)

206 196 sefton:

perhaps the greatest display of heroism in naval history.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 06, 2018 03:41 PM (Pg+x7)

207
Battlefield - Leyte Gulf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lMdnA1RwCg

Very thorough if not a bit sterile. Still an excellent account of the battle.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 06, 2018 03:41 PM (VM6ev)

208 I have mixed feelings about all this.
I am from a serious Navy family, father KIA, an uncle survived the sinking of the Wasp.
I cried looking at it the video.
Such bravery and sacrifice.
Let the dead rest in the bosom of the sea.

Posted by: navybrat at March 06, 2018 03:41 PM (w7KSn)

209 But the fight that the Samuel B Roberts was in to turn the Japanese fleet stands as every bit their equal. Unbelievable odds and incredible bravery.
Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:32 PM (0tfLf)

--

While you are at it, look up "Old 666" about the longest dogfight in US history. One B17 versus two dozen zeros for approximately an hour. The B17 survived, and brought back photos of Bougainville necessary to get the Marines in their landing craft past the coral reef.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at March 06, 2018 03:42 PM (7ZVPa)

210 I think it is the Fort Rosecrans National Cemetery in San Diego that has a memorial to the members of Taffy 3. It is a stunningly beautiful place.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:44 PM (0tfLf)

211 navybrat...
amen

Posted by: Andy in FL at March 06, 2018 03:44 PM (Wi6+I)

212 Unbelievable odds and incredible bravery.

"Damn it, boys. They're getting away."

Posted by: Stringer Davis at March 06, 2018 03:45 PM (H5rtT)

213 People may change their minds regarding what the Aussie leadership did or didn't know regarding the run up to the Battle of Rabaul after reading Darkest Hour. It's still a pretty contentious topic in OZ.

Posted by: Butter Face - smooooth at March 06, 2018 03:46 PM (K3B2k)

214 Thanxs Vasta. I will.

Posted by: Diogenes at March 06, 2018 03:46 PM (0tfLf)

215 208 I have mixed feelings about all this.
I am from a serious Navy family, father KIA, an uncle survived the sinking of the Wasp.
I cried looking at it the video.
Such bravery and sacrifice.
Let the dead rest in the bosom of the sea.
Posted by: navybrat at March 06, 2018 03:41 PM (w7KSn)

I came across a photo of a dead GI with his head visible in the hatch of a knocked out Sherman, and his name and hometown was in the caption. That is inexcusable.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 06, 2018 03:47 PM (VM6ev)

216 157 Has the Samuel B Roberts ever been located in Leyte Gulf? Got a chance to spend time with one of the survivors that got off the ship before it sunk.

Would love to have Allen go up and locate that small group of escort class ships that turned into the IJN to keep them out of range of the landings.
-----
True that. Taffy 3 never got the honor and the glory they deserved for bravery in the face of overwhelming strength.

Posted by: exdem13 at March 06, 2018 03:52 PM (W+kMI)

217 I'm fascinated by the photos, its important to bring these to the public. Thats better than just knowing what happened and leaving it just to that.

Posted by: Skip at March 06, 2018 03:53 PM (aC6Sd)

218 Im sure others have read a book called Flyboys, about WWII flyers. Good bit in there about Bush Sr.

Posted by: pontiacdoug at March 06, 2018 03:53 PM (fu1JC)

219 Speaking of shipwrecks. MeAgain Kelly's Sunday show is cancelled. LOL.

Posted by: Minnfidel at March 06, 2018 03:54 PM (7qnb5)

220 Posted by: NaCly Dog at March 06, 2018 03:25 PM (hyuyC)

I was thinking of a documentary about the New Guinea invasion. It was all national guard troops. The commanding general call them "choko" as in, melts like chocolate.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 06, 2018 03:58 PM (suO/a)

221 My cousin served on the Lexington as fighter pilot at the Coral Sea battle. After the Lexington was lost he transferred to the Army Air Corp and flew a Thunderbolt in Europe. His squadron switched to Mustangs and that is what he was flying when he went down in channel on June 5, 1944 returning from a mission were he got too close to the German ammunition train he was strafing.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at March 06, 2018 03:58 PM (bML9A)

222 I have heard it argued that the fanatical bravery of the American naval units at Leyte was a shattering blow to the Japanese officer corps racially-driven certainty that the Americans would run away from a fight. When they did not, the Japanese admiral convinced himself that an overwhelming force must be just over the horizon, and he turned the Yamato around and retreated!

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at March 06, 2018 04:11 PM (khGoY)

223 #54

Really?
That's awesome.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at March 06, 2018 04:22 PM (jWe5r)

224 10
Too bad we no longer name carriers after battles where we kicked Limey ass.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 06, 2018 02:50 PM (BWL+E)

Pretty much started with the FDR.

Strictly, we didn't name them after battles, originally, but after "ships of the old (sailing) navy". Of course, many of them amounted to the same thing; others were named after the ships that did the kicking.

Posted by: George LeS at March 06, 2018 04:49 PM (+TcCF)

225 Interesting to note that in the close up of the F4F Wildcat that the VF2 squadron logo is still visable and the the pilot already had four air victories at that early stage of the war.

I had an uncle who went on to become a F4U Corsair squadron commander of the CV16. The ship went on to become the longest serving carrier in history. "The Blue Ghost" as she was known was finally retired in 1991 and is now a museum ship in Corpus Christi Texas.

Posted by: H. Davis Wall at March 06, 2018 05:22 PM (v4K82)

226
I agree they couldn't take and occupy AUS. I think the intent was to force a surrender but I need to go back and read more.

I know they had seriously planned on taking and holding NZ prior to Coral Sea and Guadalcanal.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 06, 2018 03:28 PM (xJa6I)

NZ was actively being recced by Japanese subs all around the coastline for some time before Coral Sea and until the loss of New Guinea. We had lots of meat, wheat and milk for them. The 2nd NZEF was in the ME and then Italy so NZ could not defend ourselves until the US Marines showed up, staging prior to Guadalcanal. God bless.

Posted by: NZFrank withanM2 at March 06, 2018 05:45 PM (bgJ0E)

227 There is one error of fact in the article. They state that the Lexington was the first carrier sunk in battle, which is incorrect. By May 1942, the Royal Navy had lost 4 carriers (2 to U-boats, 1 to naval gunfire, 1 to aircraft), the IJN had lost the Shoho earlier at Coral Sea, and the USN had lost the Langley (which wasn't really a carrier any more at that point.)

Posted by: Dave L at March 06, 2018 06:01 PM (g7uFZ)

228 Looks like it is Albert Vorse's Wildcat (F-5)
https://___ur.com/DtrEUhK

Posted by: KungPow at March 06, 2018 06:13 PM (l6DeF)

229
I searched last night and saw that a portion of IJN Kaga, one of the four Japanese carriers sunk at Midway, had been discovered back in 2002, but no further search results had been posted since then.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at March 06, 2018 06:16 PM (pNxlR)

230 There is still a Navy squadron flying under the banner of Felix the Cat:

VFA-31.

Those planes in the photos are from the predecessor squadron VF-6, which VFA-31 is derived from.

Posted by: Unknownsailor at March 06, 2018 08:07 PM (IX2GI)

231 I think that this was an Allied victory, not just a US victory. Australia was involved also.

Posted by: You'd never know at March 06, 2018 11:50 PM (gJwyV)

232 Please don't say "The" before the name of a ship. Ship's names are proper nouns...you don't say I was on cruise on The John F. Kennedy, you say I cruised on Kennedy.

That being said, thanks for posting. I grew up in Lexington Ky (Well, I'm a Naval Aviator, so I never REALLY grew up), and my Great Uncle was a Gunner's mate on Lex when she sank. His battery got knocked out early on the last day, and he sat and watched the battle. He was a tough guy, but said he was incredibly scared once he didn't have anything to do.

Once the battle was over and they decided she was unsavable, the Captain told the mess cranks to bring all the ice cream from below and they sat on the deck eating ice cream while they waited for other ships to come rescue them. Didn't want to go in the water - sharks in the water.

I remember he used the word "Surreal" to describe eating ice cream in the hot sun after the battle while the ship sank below them.

46 years after my Uncle watched his beloved Lexington sink, I got my first trap in a T-2 Buckeye on the "new" Lexington - she is now a museum in Corpus Christi bay.

Anyway, been thinking about Uncle Jack a lot over the past couple of days. He and his two brothers were all sailors. They were great, great, men.

Posted by: Nose at March 07, 2018 04:08 PM (pqWM2)

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