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Saturday Evening Movie Thread 03-18-2017 [Guest Post by TheJamesMadison]

Last week, we had a good discussion about how movies (well, all of narrative fiction) are lies. We began to discuss the idea that you need to know how to watch a movie as well, and that itís a little more than plopping down in a seat. As an extension of that, I wanted to take this week to break down how I see narrative in 4 major elements, as well as presenting an alternate model.


The Four Elements of Narrative


new world.jpg


"All models are wrong, but some are useful."

-George Box, 1987

My model of narrative is wrong. It doesn't include some things. It emphasizes some stuff over other stuff that other people consider more important. It's got too much. It doesn't have enough. It's just wrong, but so is everything else.

Tens of thousands of movies, millions of books, and plays reaching back to antiquity all approach the basic issue of narrative in different ways. Some elements are emphasized over others. Sometimes, it can be argued, that certain elements don't appear at all. But, through all of my reading and watching, I have boiled down all of the different pieces that go into forming a narrative into four major elements: character, plot, theme, and style. All four are present in every movie you'll ever watch that's trying to convey a narrative, but what do I mean? Well, here's how I define them:

Character: These are the people who drive the action of the plot.

Plot: This is what the characters do, or have done to them.

Theme: This is the subtext of a narrative, i.e., the message or point.

Style: This is how the story is told. (This is also the most robust of the four with the most sub-elements such as cinematography, dialogue, sets, and prop design, but I feel that all of these factors can be concentrated into the general term style.)

In my model, all four elements are present in every narrative film, but they do not have the same level of importance in every film. Some movies prize character much more than plot, others do the opposite. Others still put style on the pedestal while theme takes second place. Which is correct?


To Each His Own

fellini.jpg


Different directors approach these elements with different priorities.

Frederico Fellini was an Italian director born of Italian neo-realism in the 50s and 60s who became his own genre that emphasized style and character over plot. His later films often feel like dreams rather than stories. Is this correct? Is this incorrect?

Alejandro Jodorowsky is a crazy Spaniard who made such odd films as El Topo that placed theme and style over anything else. Is this correct? Is this incorrect?

Steven Spielberg is an American director who puts character and plot above theme while infusing it all with his own distinct style. Is this correct? Is this incorrect?

Michael Bay is an American director who puts plots and style above theme and character. Is this correct? Is this incorrect?

The answer to all is (I'm sure you've guessed): None are correct and none are incorrect. They are all just different ways to tell stories (I'd love to live in a universe where all four of those directors were given the exact same script, whatever budget they wanted, and to see the end result of all four). I like some more than others, other people like different combinations than me. Even if you've never thought of movies in this way before, I bet you could come up with a preference for which of the four you'd rather have over the others.


My Personal Ordering of the Four Elements


dark knight rises.jpg


As implied before, I do have a preferred order for these four elements. It's not a scientific formula, though, and I don't reject movies that don't place their emphases the same way that I would. What it really means is that I look for certain things within a movie, and those things don't always align with what almost everyone else seems to think. I'll provide an example in a second, but first, my personal order of importance:

1. Theme
2. Character
3. Style
4. Plot

I place theme above everything else. What this means in practical terms is that when a movie does theme well, I'm willing to forgive "sins" of the other elements. A very good example of this is The Dark Knight Rises. There are two moments in the film that throw people: Bruce Wayne getting back to Gotham from the prison, and the Bat of fire on the bridge. "How did he get back?" and "Why did he take the time to do that?" are two common questions that movie receives, but I don't care about them. It's because plot, to the makers of the film and to me, is of a secondary importance to theme and character in that film. Including very short little scenes that explain both actions would add very very little to the film. But, we can understand the whys of them: Bruce Wayne spent many years running around the underworld, so he probably still knows his way around which is how he got back to Gotham. Symbols are important to the reality of Batman, so that kind of sight (a giant flaming bat) tells the citizens of Gotham, the police, and the bad guys what's in store. It doesn't matter how, but the why is implied by the overall theme.

Now, many people disagree and see the "plot hole" of Wayne's return as a serious flaw and the inexplicable use of the giant bat symbol as the same thing. We can disagree, assign the same movie different levels of quality, and move on. However, that whole process is easier if me, and this fake person, know that we value different elements in different amounts. For me, read above. For this other person, they place plot above theme and character. That's not wrong, it's just different.


Another Other Model


rogue one story.jpg


Mr. Plinkett of Red Letter Media (actually Mike Stoklasa) presents another model in this video explaining part of his response to the movie Rogue One. In this model, there are three elements: Character, Story, and Emotion.

This model is wrong, but then again, so is mine. And yet, it is useful. I would never use the model myself for a few reasons:

1) Story is too broad a term that encompasses too many important individual elements like plot and theme.

2)Emotion, to me, is a result of good character, not an element itself.

However, while the model is wrong, it is useful. What it does is provide Mr. Plinkett with a way to quantify, to a degree, why he feels that one movie is good and another is not. His examples in that video of Star Wars, The Force Awakens, and Rogue One fit quite neatly into his model and provides him a way to explain why Star Wars is superior to The Force Awakens which is superior to Rogue One.

Now, you can argue within his model, or you can approach it with another model out there, but at least if you ever met Mr. Plinkett and got into a discussion of Rogue One, you could approach the conversation in a constructive way that addresses his concerns while also finding a way to explain your own view in a way that he accepts.

And that's ultimately the point of thinking of movies like this: Figuring out how to explain why you like a movie to someone else. That person may have never seen it, or may have seen it a disagree with your assessment, but if you can provide a framework from which you see movies, you can explain it more clearly and intelligently.


Take Aways

So, what do you think of my model? Yes, it's wrong, but do you find it useful? Do you have another model that you can think of that would help to demonstrate your own priorities in movies? (Explosions divided by dialogue multiplied by hot girls might be a model Michael Bay came up with, but who knows?)

The next time you watch a movie, watch it with my model in mind and see if you can identify those parts of the film that you are most entertained by or interested in. Do you get turned off at any plot hole? Is it character actions that don't make sense that piss you off? Do you ever notice theme? If a movie is poorly made, will you care or not?


Movies of Today

Opening in Theaters:

Power Rangers
Life
CHIPS

Next in my Netflix Queue: Creepshow

Movies I Saw this Week:
Green Zone (3/5 Netflix Rating | 2/4 quality rating) - Poster Blurb: "A thin layer of thriller entertainment over a heap of propaganda"
Life Stinks (2/5 Netflix Rating | 1.5/4 quality rating) Poster Blurb: "Hit or Miss comedy affair that ends up glorifying homelessness and mental illness."
Push (2/5 Netflix Rating | 1/4 quality rating) Poster Blurb: "Inept, confusing, and pretty much incomprehensible misfire."

Posted by: OregonMuse at 07:15 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 He's cracked the secret formula!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 07:12 PM (0mRoj)

2 Seeing Michael Bay ref'd made me think of this awesomeness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wYtG7aQTHA

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:15 PM (EnKk6)

3

Yay! Movies.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 07:16 PM (lmIoG)

4 The Dork Knight rinses. Repeat.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 07:17 PM (IqV8l)

5 OK. Now I'm just spamming.

I see one movie a year,

This year it was Kedi, a documentary about the street cats of Turkey.

Really heartwarming, beautiful film.

/sorry for spamming, but it was filled with awwwws.

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:17 PM (FkAXz)

6 It's a review of movie reviews.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:18 PM (jw2Xw)

7 I've seen ads for CHIPS.

It looks like it would accompany a few beers.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:19 PM (jw2Xw)

8 Next movie for me to see is Guardians Of The Galaxy II. For the raccoon and the green girl.

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 07:20 PM (zLDYs)

9 I guess it would be what you prefer. I love mysteries and who done it's. Is that theme or plot?

Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:20 PM (uKRys)

10 What? Beauty & the Beast came out yesterday & NOTHING? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:20 PM (hscyr)

11 >>> Beauty & the Beast came out yesterday & NOTHING?

Disney fired their American IT workers. In order to receive severance they had to train their foreign replacements.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:22 PM (jw2Xw)

12 CHIPs looks like a looser out of the gate

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:22 PM (GPaiX)

13 Shit, Northwestern has gotten back in the game.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:23 PM (GsAUU)

14 CHIPS looks fun.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 07:23 PM (tJGHm)

15 We all bring ourselves and our history to a film, and I've liked movies that leave others cold because I can spackle in content from my own palette of stuff.

If it's all style, but engaging, I can provide the substance. Do others make up backstories for characters as they're watching a film?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:23 PM (EnKk6)

16
You're wrong.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:23 PM (cuZZW)

17 "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

Kate Upton, Carol Alt, Christie Brinkley....

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (oVJmc)

18
Those 4 categories are as good as any other.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (lmIoG)

19 Anyone want to help write a script?

I need real 50's slang for sex and naughty bits lol..

seriously.

Posted by: Jarvis W. Deplorable at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (1VbTq)

20 Delta IV launch scheduled for 7:44 EDT:

http://www.ulalaunch.com/webcast.aspx

It's launching an AIr Force payload.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 07:25 PM (sdi6R)

21 Personally I would rank character above everything else. If you can't get me to care about the character, I can't care about the other aspects of the movie.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:25 PM (Zd2ZF)

22 I will forgive a lot if a movie is fun/entertaining.
But if it's boring? Forget it.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 07:26 PM (NOIQH)

23 I have AAA insurance for my car and apartment, and my agent of record is named --no kidding-- Erick Estrada.

That's probably all I'll say about CHiPs.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:26 PM (GsAUU)

24 Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:22 PM

-------

????? Fluffy, is that you?

Posted by: olddog in mo at March 18, 2017 07:26 PM (Dhht7)

25
(I'd love to live in a universe where all four of those directors were given the exact same script, whatever budget they wanted, and to see the end result of all four)









The closest you'll probably get to that is the last Exorcist film.....well, two films. Same story/script to start with, same sets, most of the same cast, but one version directed by Renny Harlin and the other by Paul Schraeder.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (cuZZW)

26 21 Personally I would rank character above everything else. If you can't get me to care about the character, I can't care about the other aspects of the movie.
Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:25 PM (Zd2ZF)

============

I used to think this, but then I discovered Terrence Malick.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (Jj43a)

27 sorry for spamming, but it was filled with awwwws.

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:17 PM (FkAXz)


The synagogue I used to go to as a kid had an annual blessing ceremony for pets; they called it Days of Aww.

Film content: does anyone have recommendations for Asian horror flicks? There are lots of bubblegum teen girl horror movies from Japan and Korea, and the bigger budget stuff like The Ring and The Grudge, but I'm looking for something more like Ghost of Mae Nak or even better, R-Point.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (8nWyX)

28 Posted by: Jarvis W. Deplorable at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (1VbTq)

Have you considered reading the first few issues of playboy? I think it would help to find actual publications or movies from the period that deal with the subject.

Posted by: The Collector at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (a3sfz)

29 17 "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

Kate Upton, Carol Alt, Christie Brinkley....
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (oVJmc)

--Mmmmm, Carol Alt. Serious boner material for me in the '80s.

Kathy Ireland is also a timeless beauty.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (GsAUU)

30 I thought the four essential elements of contemporary were homosexuality, girl power, socialism, and environmentalism.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (Nwg0u)

31 I like movies based upon actual history and the events leading up to and surrounding what the movie is about.

Factual history. So Hollyweird has left me cold since about 1976. If you play fast and loose with historical facts, I can't watch.

Comedies, goof movies and fiction are all outside that box.

One of the best action movies I have ever seen was "Wake Island" and it was filmed in early 1942 I believe. Too bad they don't do a similar movie for our service men today.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (5VlCp)

32 i watched "train to busan" this week....i thought it was well done.....it's a zombie movie....and i must say, korean zombies are far more frightening than our slow moving zombies on twd......

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (0O7c5)

33
Anyone want to help write a script?

I need real 50's slang for sex and naughty bits lol..

seriously.

Posted by: Jarvis W. Deplorable at March 18, 2017 07:24 PM (1VbTq)






Read some James Ellroy. Especially his earlier books.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (cuZZW)

34 I think I'm the only person who liked the dinosaur sequence in Malick's "The Tree of Life".

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (EnKk6)

35 I lot plot.

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (FkAXz)

36 I used to think this, but then I discovered Terrence Malick. Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (Jj43a)

I'm not familiar.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (Zd2ZF)

37 25 The closest you'll probably get to that is the last Exorcist film.....well, two films. Same story/script to start with, same sets, most of the same cast, but one version directed by Renny Harlin and the other by Paul Schraeder.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (cuZZW)

==============

I've seen both. Schrader's version is flawed but a serious expiration of evil. The other is a bad horror movie.

And you're right, probably the closest I'll ever get.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (Jj43a)

38 hahaha.

Like.

I LIKE plot.

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (FkAXz)

39 Yes, fun and entertaining or interesting. For your value of interesting. I'm not a movie buff but I like older movies. Iconic stars from the past and a somewhat more innocent time. Seems to me so much of the stuff they put out now is garbage. But then I'm an old foof.

Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (uKRys)

40 One of the best action movies I have ever seen was "Wake Island" and it was filmed in early 1942 I believe. Too bad they don't do a similar movie for our service men today.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (5VlCp)

At least it wasn't "Woke Island."

Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (Zd2ZF)

41 30 I thought the four essential elements of contemporary were homosexuality, girl power, socialism, and environmentalism.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (Nwg0u)

Don't forget Blacks Invented Everything.

Posted by: Hidden Figures at March 18, 2017 07:31 PM (GsAUU)

42
10 What? Beauty & the Beast came out yesterday & NOTHING? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:20 PM (hscyr)



I checked Channel Awesome and they did a Sibling Rivalry review saying it sucked. They say if you loved the original and Disney can do no wrong and you go in wanting to love it you probably will like it. But otherwise no. And they were really disappointed in the "gay" stuff, meaning its really nothing. Timon and Pumba are gayer.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 07:31 PM (cAnNx)

43 11 >>> Beauty & the Beast came out yesterday & NOTHING?
Disney fired their American IT workers. In order to receive severance they had to train their foreign replacements.
Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:22 PM (

Oh we're going to do this again? Sorry I'm not boycotting ALL THE THINGS!!!! Eleventy!!!!!!!!

Let's all stay shut up in a windowless room with no radio, music, tv, music or anything. Whoopee joyless existence! Have fun being bitter. I'm gonna jump in the shower & then head for Disneyland.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:31 PM (hscyr)

44
I used to think this, but then I discovered Terrence Malick.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:27 PM (Jj43a)








Does Malick still use the same voiceover thing of having his angsty main character asking himself questions? "Why am I here?" "Why is there cruelty in the world?" "Where are my pants?"

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (cuZZW)

45 If it's all style, but engaging, I can provide the substance. Do others make up backstories for characters as they're watching a film?


Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:23 PM


The best screenplays/scripts usually prompt this. But, not always. If it is really, really solid, you don't need to. Sometimes it's enough to just know who they are and how they're engaging the here and now... without much explanation... not- "I am so and so and I'm freaking out in this situation" type gabbing. The best stories let you see this for yourself.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (lmIoG)

46 34 I think I'm the only person who liked the dinosaur sequence in Malick's "The Tree of Life".
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (EnKk6)

===========

That while creation sequence is really the that'd core of the whole movie. Needless to say, but it's my favorite part of the movie.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (Jj43a)

47 31 I like movies based upon actual history and the events leading up to and surrounding what the movie is about.

Factual history. So Hollyweird has left me cold since about 1976. If you play fast and loose with historical facts, I can't watch.

Comedies, goof movies and fiction are all outside that box.

One of the best action movies I have ever seen was "Wake Island" and it was filmed in early 1942 I believe. Too bad they don't do a similar movie for our service men today.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 18, 2017 07:28 PM (5VlCp)

--Have you seen The Great Raid. a great patriotic war movie made after 2000. I also enjoy We Were Soldiers (which is a little more grey because Vietnam but I do like how it protrays the NVA soldiers).

Posted by: Hidden Figures at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (GsAUU)

48 Nice thread

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:34 PM (voOPb)

49 36
I'm not familiar.
Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (Zd2ZF)

========

Badlands
Days of Heaven
The Thin Tree Line
The New World
The Tree Of Life
To The Wonder
Knight of Cups
Song to Song

I love that man.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:34 PM (Jj43a)

50 Launch is at 4 minutes and hold for some stupid alarm

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:35 PM (GPaiX)

51 44 Does Malick still use the same voiceover thing of having his angsty main character asking himself questions? "Why am I here?" "Why is there cruelty in the world?" "Where are my pants?"
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (cuZZW)

========

Yes. And if you don't like it in one you probably won't like it any.

I love it personally.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:35 PM (Jj43a)

52 OM really gets into movies. I guess my two main standards are:

1) Was what happened/done plausible
2) Was the movie entertaining

By plausible I mean things like a character or characters doing something a normal person would not do just so the plot could be advanced. Or, was the story full of holes? An example I have cited before is the movie Signs. Massive plot holes.

Entertaining? I go to be entertained. Joan of Arc is an example of a movie I enjoyed...until the last half. The anti-religious sneering pissed me off.
It seems that H-Wood has forgotten why people go to see movies in the first place.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (hVdx9)

53 Life Stinks (2/5 Netflix Rating | 1.5/4 quality rating) Poster Blurb: "Hit or Miss comedy affair that ends up glorifying homelessness and mental illness


So the story of HRC?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (voOPb)

54 50 Launch is at 4 minutes and hold for some stupid alarm
Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:35 PM (GPaiX)


Yeah, they should just power through that swing arm thingy.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (sdi6R)

55 ????? Fluffy, is that you?

Seems to be.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (jw2Xw)

56 /sock

39 Yes, fun and entertaining or interesting. For your value of interesting. I'm not a movie buff but I like older movies. Iconic stars from the past and a somewhat more innocent time. Seems to me so much of the stuff they put out now is garbage. But then I'm an old foof.
Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (uKRys)

--For me movie depends on mood and timing. I like meaty dramas, but if it's Friday night at the end of the workweek I'm too tired to give a "serious" movie the attention I'd like and I prefer either a mindless action or comedy flick, or a movie I'm familiar with and enjoy over and over like a Clint Western.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (GsAUU)

57 I like the model. (And am a character/plot person.)

I think most of the movies I've seen in the last 10 years could be explained better with just three axes, though:

1. Fan service
2. Style
3. CGI spectacle

Though this is undoubtedly my own fault for watching too much tentpole crap.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (i2uPg)

58 49 36
I'm not familiar.
Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:29 PM (Zd2ZF)

I love that man.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:34 PM (Jj43a)

You forgot to say "no homo."

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (0mRoj)

59 53 So the story of HRC?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (voOPb)

==========

Truly.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (Jj43a)

60 To me a good movie boils down to one ting, entertainment. I watch movies to be entertained. I don't give a shit about education. I read books for that.


A lot of things must mesh to make a good entertaining movie, good plot, good script, good actors who are right for the part. True Grit (original) is one of my favorite movies, but it was drug down from a Great Movie by two actors who were horribly miscast. Mattie Ross played by Kim Darby stunk and Glen Campbell was awful. But what held it together was John Wayne and Robert Duvall.


I will not even discuss the shitty remake.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (mpXpK)

61 So for 50 some years I had been watching movies incorrectly?

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 18, 2017 07:38 PM (2VN2E)

62
Yes. And if you don't like it in one you probably won't like it any.

I love it personally.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:35 PM (Jj43a)







Fair enough. Different strokes for different folks. I find it irritating myself, reminds me too much of emo adolescents.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:38 PM (cuZZW)

63 58 You forgot to say "no homo."
Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (0mRoj)

==============

Nope. I'd cuddle him.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:38 PM (Jj43a)

64 I'm watching a movie[/] now. It's called "March Madness." You can find it on 3 different channels.

Presently #4 Fl St is losing to #11 Xavier by 18.

Posted by: olddog in mo at March 18, 2017 07:39 PM (Dhht7)

65 62 61 So for 50 some years I had been watching movies incorrectly?
Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at March 18, 2017 07:38 PM (2VN2E)

========

EVERYONE HAS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 07:39 PM (Jj43a)

66 Some movies I can get through without liking or caring about the characters specifically. However, if the movie is focused on specific characters and I don't care about them then it's a bummer. Like The Road. I just didn't give a shit about the dad or the kid so I was completely disengaged.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (0mRoj)

67 I think most of the movies I've seen in the last 10 years could be explained better with just three axes, though:

1. Fan service
2. Style
3. CGI spectacle

Though this is undoubtedly my own fault for watching too much tentpole crap.
Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (i2uPg)

You forgot #4, Nostalgia. Though I guess that could be part of #1.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (Zd2ZF)

68 42 I checked Channel Awesome and they did a Sibling Rivalry review saying it sucked.
Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 07:31 PM (cAnNx)

I enjoyed it, it was fun. Yeah & the gai thing was a big nothing burger. Le Fou was the same butt kisser as in the original animation. But Josh Gad & Luke Evans played off each other well & looked like they were having a blast With the whole comic bad guys thing. The director was projecting, gotta promote the lifestyle. And now I'm getting in the shower. No, you can't calibrate the webcam.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (VE4yg)

69 Plausibility isnt alway a factor, but consistency in it is.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (GPaiX)

70 I like Terrence Malick, but it helps to know what you are in for.

His movies are slow and contemplative.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (jw2Xw)

71 I suppose the same categorization could be used for plays. For example, I particularly enjoyed the live stage production of Koyaanisqatsi put on by our local Intrepretive Dance company.

Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Gluten Free Souls at March 18, 2017 07:41 PM (a3sfz)

72 I decided to watch basketball practically for the first time in my life and my team is out in two games. Guess there is always next year

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:42 PM (GPaiX)

73
Plausibility isnt alway a factor, but consistency in it is.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (GPaiX)







Well, it has to be plausible by the rules in the make-believe world created by the script.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:42 PM (cuZZW)

74 On the subject of theme, lo these many years ago I read a review of Bull Durham which posed the question, how do you make a great baseball movie? It also supplied the answer, make it about something besides baseball. Consider Dr. Zhivago. It is a movie about an adulterous affair but also paints an horrific view of the Russian Revolution. The effect is a far more effective piece of anti-soviet propaganda than a simple polemic would have been.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 07:42 PM (Nwg0u)

75 Oh we're going to do this again? Sorry I'm not boycotting ALL THE THINGS!!!! Eleventy!!!!!!!!

Let's all stay shut up in a windowless room with no radio, music, tv, music or anything. Whoopee joyless existence! Have fun being bitter. I'm gonna jump in the shower & then head for Disneyland.
Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:31 PM (hscyr)

--Eh, I don't care for the Big Rat at all, but lately I just can't afford movies regardless of whether I like or not. Since the littl'un was born the only movies I've seen in the theater have been the three Hobbit ones and American Sniper in a second-run theater.

I totally believe in "buycotting" as well, supporting good movies to encourage more being made (e.g., the only Big Rat flick I've seen in the theater in the past decade plus have been Chronicles of Narnia), but it's also about money and time. It's mostly movies on cable or the occasional Redbox.

I did buy El Mariachi yesterday because it was cheap at K Mart. Haven't seen it in over 10 years and look forward to another viewing.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (GsAUU)

76 The two elements of film:

Modern:
1) Boobs
2) Explosions

1930's (according to Harry Cohn):
1) Cunt
2) Horses

Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (+sRjj)

77 if i watch a film in the theatre, i usually fall asleep......so i watch them at home and usually fall asleep.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (0O7c5)

78 Still holding for a swing arm issue. On the bright side, now we're getting into twilight, and twilight launches can be unusually spectacular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fR4g-9Pi0M

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (sdi6R)

79 Some movies I can get through without liking or
caring about the characters specifically. However, if the movie is
focused on specific characters and I don't care about them then it's a
bummer. Like The Road. I just didn't give a shit about the dad or the
kid so I was completely disengaged.

Posted by: Insomniac
****

I don't know how close to the book the movie was, but what a sh*tty movie.
Had somewhat the same problem as you. I didn't care about any of the characters and the plot seemed pointless and nihilistic almost until the very end.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (hVdx9)

80 Still at 4 minutes and holding

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (GPaiX)

81 I enjoyed it, it was fun. Yeah & the gai thing was a big nothing burger. Le Fou was the same butt kisser as in the original animation. But Josh Gad & Luke Evans played off each other well & looked like they were having a blast With the whole comic bad guys thing. The director was projecting, gotta promote the lifestyle. And now I'm getting in the shower. No, you can't calibrate the webcam.



Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at March 18, 2017 07:40 PM (VE4yg)



They ripped on Emma Watson's singing. And pointed out that apparently the wardrobe was played by some amazing singer, they said something like "Possibly one of the best voices of our time," and they do basically fuckall with her.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (cAnNx)

82 56 /sock

39 Yes, fun and entertaining or interesting. For your value of interesting. I'm not a movie buff but I like older movies. Iconic stars from the past and a somewhat more innocent time. Seems to me so much of the stuff they put out now is garbage. But then I'm an old foof.
Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:30 PM (uKRys)

--For me movie depends on mood and timing. I like meaty dramas, but if it's Friday night at the end of the workweek I'm too tired to give a "serious" movie the attention I'd like and I prefer either a mindless action or comedy flick, or a movie I'm familiar with and enjoy over and over like a Clint Western.
Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:36 PM (GsAUU)

You say that if it were a bad thing
Never go wrong with Clint except for one movie

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (voOPb)

83 77 if i watch a film in the theatre, i usually fall asleep......so i watch them at home and usually fall asleep.....


Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (0O7c5)



But at least you don't have to get up after the credits roll and drive home.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 07:45 PM (cAnNx)

84 74 how do you make a great baseball movie?


Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 07:42 PM (Nwg0u)



Good story, good actors. The Natural before Robert Redford turned to shit.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:45 PM (mpXpK)

85 You say that if it were a bad thing

Never go wrong with Clint except for one movie

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (voOPb)
which one? and if you say bronco billy....i'll cut you

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:46 PM (0O7c5)

86 >>> I'm not boycotting ALL THE THINGS!!!! Eleventy!!!!!!!!

I'm boycotting all things Disney/ABC.

Enjoy.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:46 PM (jw2Xw)

87 But what held it together was John Wayne and Robert Duvall.


I will not even discuss the shitty remake.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:37 PM (mpXpK)

--Robert Duvall. An all-time great.

Watched To Kill A Mockingbird in eighth grade and only many years later learned that he was Boo Radley.

Charlie don't surf!

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:47 PM (GsAUU)

88 enjoy over and over like a Clint Western.

Agreed. I also like Wayne westerns, and many others. Also love military films that aren't full of the PC crap.

Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:48 PM (uKRys)

89 He's f*cking Batman. He's getting back to Gotham.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 07:48 PM (FqgrG)

90
I totally believe in "buycotting" as well, supporting good movies to encourage more being made (e.g., the only Big Rat flick I've seen in the theater in the past decade plus have been Chronicles of Narnia), but it's also about money and time. It's mostly movies on cable or the occasional Redbox.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:43 PM (GsAUU)






Yup. For example, I bought tickets for all three Atlas Shrugged flicks, but didn't walk into the theater because I knew damned well that they were going to be awful, awful movies. But it was worth it to kick a little green towards movies that weren't blatant commie propaganda.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:48 PM (cuZZW)

91
I see one movie a year,
This year it was Kedi, a documentary about the street cats of Turkey.
Really heartwarming, beautiful film.
/sorry for spamming, but it was filled with awwwws.

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:17 PM (FkAXz)
***

I recently caught "Hachi" on TV. That was a pretty good AWW movie. Made me look into the real story of Hachiko, the dog it was modeled on.
I'd recommend it for dog lovers.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 07:49 PM (tJGHm)

92
85 You say that if it were a bad thing

Never go wrong with Clint except for one movie

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (voOPb)
which one? and if you say bronco billy....i'll cut you

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:46 PM (0O7c5)






The soft-porn flick with Meryl Streep?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:49 PM (cuZZW)

93 You say that if it were a bad thing
Never go wrong with Clint except for one movie
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:44 PM (voOPb)

--Actually, I may have been unclear, but I did not.

I love The Outlaw Josey Wales and since I know it so well it serves well when I am pooped and may miss some parts.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (GsAUU)

94 90 Yup. For example, I bought tickets for all three
Atlas Shrugged flicks, but didn't walk into the theater because I knew
damned well that they were going to be awful, awful movies. But it was
worth it to kick a little green towards movies that weren't blatant
commie propaganda.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:48 PM (cuZZW)

I like all three movies. My only problem was they kept changing the major character in every movie.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (mpXpK)

95 Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:46 PM (0O7c5)

Really? Come on, I thought you knew me better than that

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (voOPb)

96 FSU was the tallest team in the tournament and Xavier has taken them to school.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:51 PM (GsAUU)

97 93 I love The Outlaw Josey Wales and since I know it so well it serves well when I am pooped and may miss some parts.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (GsAUU)

Absolutely one of the best movies ever made.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:51 PM (mpXpK)

98 I thoroughly enjoyed Snakes on a Choo Choo. That Lorenzo Washington is really something.

Posted by: Smokin' Uncle Joe Biden at March 18, 2017 07:51 PM (Tyii7)

99 Have you seen The Great Raid. a great patriotic war movie made after 2000. I also enjoy We Were Soldiers (which is a little more grey because Vietnam but I do like how it protrays the NVA soldiers).
Posted by: Hidden Figures at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (GsAUU)

No....but I will now that you mentioned them.

Thanks HF!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (5VlCp)

100 I skipped seeing Beauty and the Beast because I have a penis.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (hVdx9)

101 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:49 PM (cuZZW)

Ding, ding, ding, Winnah

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (voOPb)

102
--Robert Duvall. An all-time great.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:47 PM (GsAUU)





I swear, it's impossible for that man to put in a bad performance. Even in the most awful piece of shit on celluloid, he's always great.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (cuZZW)

103
I recently caught "Hachi" on TV. That was a pretty good AWW movie. Made me look into the real story of Hachiko, the dog it was modeled on.
I'd recommend it for dog lovers.
---

Most animal movies are awesome.

/still weeping over Old Yeller... why do you hate children Uncle Walt?

Posted by: shibumi at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (FkAXz)

104 We were Soldiers - another great movie.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:53 PM (mpXpK)

105 which one? and if you say bronco billy....i'll cut you
Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:46 PM (0O7c5)

--Hmmm, three: the musical, the chick flick with Meryl Streep, and the one with the orang.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 07:53 PM (GsAUU)

106 Really? Come on, I thought you knew me better than that

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (voOPb)
sorry, i've been on edge for the past couple of days...... :p

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (0O7c5)

107 For baseball movies, I liked "61*" with Thomas Jane as Mickey Mantle and Barry Pepper as Roger Maris.

Now a sports movie is a very plot-driven thing, right? But this was all about character.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (EnKk6)

108
Ah... Clint's monkey movies. (also Bronco Billy)

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (lmIoG)

109 Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (0O7c5)

What's wrong?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (voOPb)

110 TJM,

I disagree with your emphasis on theme.

I see it more as the support structure for the other elements of character, plot, style.

Usually, whenever a movie or book goes awry, it's because the author/director decides his theme or message is too important for us to miss.

As evidence, i give you the quick review of "Kong" from the morning's EMT-


Saw "Kong" yesterday-


And yes, given that the movie is more or less structured like 'Apocalypse Now!' and that the context is American soldiers abandoning Viet Nam,

it should've been titled-

"Viet Kong"


It is probably the best "kaiju movie" evah made.

Spectacular action. Incredibly realistic FX. Great acting. Frantic pace. Just great stuff.

They need this team to do the next Godzilla movie.


And yes, we all know the context of the movie, it can easily be inferred what the theme is-

but this being Hollywood they've gotta go all crazy bananas with an on-point scene near the end between Kong and Samuel L Jackson and the rest of the crew- just so we know who the real villain is!!!11!!1


Given that there is an even bigger danger out there than Kong, the scene makes some sense-

but it could've easily been handled in an emotional way instead of a making old old oh, so very old political point way-

Man it's like Country Joe and the Fish wrote this scene.

but this being Hollywood...(50 year old) Political Point it is!


Anyway awesome(truly) monster movie that shoots itself in the foot making 75 year old hippies happy, who are obviously the demographic for this movie.

Check it out.


Your Batman example isn't really about theme IMO-

The how did Batman get back question is simply one of authorial editing.

No movie goer wanted to see Batman, riding on a camel for 15 minutes, then taking a taxi to the airport then standing in line for Air Afghanistan, etc.

So, Batman is back. How did he get back? Eh, who cares?

The fire bat emblem moment is an emotional moment. Not a theme moment.

It announces that hope is alive. That Batman is back and beyond the control of Bane, etc.

Not really a theme moment. Unless the theme of TDKR is Batman is a cool badass. Which it might be.

As to how the fire bat got there, I'm pretty sure i remember a squib of dialog, that indicates that it was Alfred or possibly Robin who set it up.

Annnnnywho, i guess my question would be-

Can you think of a movie where the characterization, plot, and style just blow chunks but the theme makes it a great movie?


Cuz "Kong" has boatloads of style, plot, and characterization, but it's the director figuratively stepping in front of the camera to deliver his theme that makes it a lesser movie.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (9q7Dl)

111 84 74 how do you make a great baseball movie?


Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 07:42 PM (Nwg0u)



Good story, good actors. The Natural before Robert Redford turned to shit.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:45 PM (mpXpK)



Put a kid in it!

Posted by: Rookie of the Year and Little Big League at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (cAnNx)

112 Chuck Berry, 90, dropped the chalupa this afternoon at his home in St Charles County, MO...

Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (kP16F)

113
Beauty and the Beast

http://tinyurl.com/lor8y3r

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (IqV8l)

114 Weren't there two with the orangutan?

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (jw2Xw)

115 Beguiled is very seldom on tv as is Play Misty For Me

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 07:56 PM (voOPb)

116 I like all three movies. My only problem was they kept changing the major character in every movie.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:50 PM (mpXpK)
---
Me too. For something on a shoestring budget they were pretty good, I thought.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 07:56 PM (EnKk6)

117
What's the diff between theme and plot, in words that a dummy like me can understand?

An example of each in movies would be best for me.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 07:57 PM (X4K8V)

118 So, Batman is back. How did he get back? Eh, who cares?


Immmf gwanngg hrrmf gffmgt!

Posted by: Bane at March 18, 2017 07:57 PM (0mRoj)

119 Plot: a hero solving a problem through his own efforts.

This is the core of almost all pre-modern and modern Western fiction. Without it, you're left with pastiche, tragedy, or shit found in a garbage dump*.

One of the biggest reasons why foreign fiction and movies are such soul-sucking bores is that they either don't understand plots or loath the idea of one.

Avant guard/ art-house movies are tedious and chore like because of this political framework. Those films actively set out to harass and annoy the audience. I used to be able to watch anything from Truffaut* to Van Sant.

No more. If there's no plot, it's a waste of my time.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 18, 2017 07:57 PM (4YGWz)

120 Move over Beethoven!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOrMg3pY7hw

Posted by: Zettai Ryoiki at March 18, 2017 07:57 PM (kP16F)

121 Put a kid in it!

Like "Bad News Bears"?

Posted by: olddog in mo at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (Dhht7)

122
I like all three movies. My only problem was they kept changing the major character in every movie.

They were good movies, but yes, changing the main characters sucked.

Posted by: Infidel at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (uKRys)

123
Have you seen The Great Raid. a great patriotic war movie made after 2000. I also enjoy We Were Soldiers (which is a little more grey because Vietnam but I do like how it protrays the NVA soldiers).
Posted by: Hidden Figures at March 18, 2017 07:32 PM (GsAUU)

No....but I will now that you mentioned them.

Thanks HF!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (5VlCp)







One of the really neat things about The Great Raid is that the tactics are incredibly accurate to the true event. Evidently, Hollywood's normal idea of brilliant battlefield tactics is to have everyone line up on a parade ground making angry faces at each other, before someone yells "Charge!" and they sprint directly at the enemy.

Note: About the only thing they got wrong in The Great Raid is the plane for the diversion, and that was because there wasn't a working P61 Black Widow available to put on film, so I can't blame the filmmakers.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (cuZZW)

124 Another criticism I've heard about TDKR is all he does to beat Bane is a bunch of push ups in jail.

Completely misses the point.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (FqgrG)

125 If I emphasize nudity over theme, is that wrong?

Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (/wWB4)

126
Speaking of Robert Duvall...

did anyone here watch GET LOW upon my recommends?

Good movie. Good movie for you to watch Tonight.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (X4K8V)

127 We began to discuss the idea that you need to know how to watch a movie as well, and that it's a little more than plopping down in a seat.

I think that film is art. And like all art, it has a tendency to pretentiousness. I have argued with some of my artist friends that if I don't get their work, it's the fault of the artist, not the viewer. To take it to the ridiculous extreme, if you write a novel in a language you made up, you can't fault the reader for not understanding your story. So in short, if I can't just plop down and enjoy the show, it's artistic fail.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (LTHVh)

128 108


Ah... Clint's monkey movies. (also Bronco Billy)

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 07:54 PM (lmIoG)
are you kidding? smh..... i'm not a sandra locke fan....but she was awesome in bronco billy....that movie has some of the best lines ever written for a movie......the monkey movies? clyde was an ape.......jeez....those were great too......

Posted by: phoenixgirl..spring training at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (0O7c5)

129 121 Put a kid in it!

Like "Bad News Bears"?

Posted by: olddog in mo at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (Dhht7)



That's a bunch of kids. You need just one! Have him say stuff like "Pitcher's got a big butt!"

Posted by: Rookie of the Year and Little Big League at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (cAnNx)

130 125 If I emphasize nudity over theme, is that wrong?
Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (/wWB4)

I'm certainly not going to judge.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (0mRoj)

131 If the 'ettes would like to discuss Charles Barkley's suit I would be interested in hearing their thoughts on his ensemble this evening.

Posted by: NC Ref at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (SpeiC)

132 If I emphasize nudity over theme, is that wrong?

Posted by: t-bird
****

Nudity ISN'T a theme?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (hVdx9)

133 Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (/wWB4)

Nudity is a theme

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (voOPb)

134 Knew I'd be bad luck if I went to ricki's lrocket launch link.
Still holding

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (GPaiX)

135
Absolutely one of the best movies ever made.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:51 PM (mpXpK)

--A lot of people say Movie X "could not be made today" but Josey Wales reasally fits the description. If it were remade today, it would be full of angsty PC guilt by Wales for being a Confederate.

I swear, it's impossible for that man to put in a bad performance. Even in the most awful piece of shit on celluloid, he's always great.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 07:52 PM (cuZZW)

--Last December for the first time I saw a movie I think called Four Christmases, a cheesy fluffy comedy that I have never heard of. Duvall was in it (it was an ensemble cast) playing the father-in-law and he was hilarious. He and Vince Vaughn made it watchable.

104 We were Soldiers - another great movie.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:53 PM (mpXpK)

--I think only Mel Gibson would make a Vietnam War movie that does not trash America and make American soldiers Teh Evil.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (GsAUU)

136 125 If I emphasize nudity over theme, is that wrong?
Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (/wWB4)
---
As long as it's tasteful and organic to the story.

Posted by: Petyr Baelish at March 18, 2017 08:01 PM (EnKk6)

137 basically whatever the Director is good at..Kurosawa epic depth story... one character.... Na hong-jin crazy ass Korean violence suspense The Chaser The Wailing...Sono is absolutely off the charts Why dont you play in Hell..Suicide Club..100... Refn violence
Myazaki animated Kurosawa without having to worry about reality...I never watch a trailer as i feel this ruins evrything and rely on several film blogs to anticiapte what's coimng.
Films i saw this week
World of Kanako...violent unending nihilism
Dragon Dentist...why i love Anime... endless borders of imagination and their dystopic view of future Big government

Posted by: qmark at March 18, 2017 08:01 PM (o3/+K)

138 Malick's best film is "Days of Heaven".

There he exactly the right balance of showing stuff like wheat waving in the wind and lackadaisical plotting because we're seeing an adult story through a child's distracted attention.

Great music too.

I think Malick probably realized that he'd done his best possible work, cuz what was it?....like twenty years before he made his next movie?

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 08:02 PM (9q7Dl)

139 136 125 If I emphasize nudity over theme, is that wrong?
Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 07:58 PM (/wWB4)
---
As long as it's tasteful and organic to the story.

Posted by: Petyr Baelish at March 18, 2017 08:01 PM (EnKk6)



And what her cup size is.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:02 PM (cAnNx)

140 They're getting ready to pick up the count. They said it's an instrumentation issue and the swing arm itself is healthy.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 08:02 PM (sdi6R)

141 "As long as it's tasteful and organic to the story."

And the tits and ass are awesome.

Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (+sRjj)

142 Who can forget such great lines as "its not for eatin', just for lookin' through".

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (mpXpK)

143 ..endeavor to persevere ...

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (LTHVh)

144 138 Malick's best film is "Days of Heaven".

There he exactly the right balance of showing stuff like wheat waving in the wind and lackadaisical plotting because we're seeing an adult story through a child's distracted attention.

Great music too.

I think Malick probably realized that he'd done his best possible work, cuz what was it?....like twenty years before he made his next movie?

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 08:02 PM (9q7Dl)

==============

I'm one of the very few who thinks that Days is actually his least movie.

I feel that it's too airy, and that's coming from me who put The Thin Tree Line in my to 10.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:04 PM (Jj43a)

145 I question why the main character was such a outcast in late mid war but really liked Hacksaw Ridge.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:04 PM (GPaiX)

146 if you hadn't come along when you did, I might have killed her.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:04 PM (LTHVh)

147 Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (9q7Dl)

--Wow, so a recommendation for Kong.

So Michelle Obama was awesome in her movie debut?

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:05 PM (GsAUU)

148 I'm one of the very few who thinks that Days is actually his least movie.

I feel that it's too airy, and that's coming from me who put The Thin Tree Line in my to 10.


Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:04 PM


The Thin Red Line?

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 08:05 PM (lmIoG)

149 Launch is back on, less than 4 minutes

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:05 PM (GPaiX)

150
I think that film is art. And like all art, it has a tendency to pretentiousness. I have argued with some of my artist friends that if I don't get their work, it's the fault of the artist, not the viewer. To take it to the ridiculous extreme, if you write a novel in a language you made up, you can't fault the reader for not understanding your story. So in short, if I can't just plop down and enjoy the show, it's artistic fail.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 07:59 PM (LTHVh)







THIS.

I have a semi-related theory in regards to all art forms, that while the artist is in control of the art and it's meaning while the art is being created, once it's complete, it's the AUDIENCE that controls the art and it's place in the culture. Which really pisses off artists to no end. Hence the epic butt-hurt every time a conservative uses a piece of rock music during their political campaigns.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM (cuZZW)

151 LMAO NC Ref Sir Charles is not on the halftime show on TBS so I haven't seen his duds.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM (GsAUU)

152
Why can't I just find a bag full of $$? Why?

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM (X4K8V)

153 148

The Thin Red Line?
Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 08:05 PM (lmIoG)

=======

Ugh.... Auto correct

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM (Jj43a)

154 I'm thinking my preference is
Character
Plot
Theme
Style

But that's not written in stone.
Also, I like "Push", but I like comic book style movies generally.

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 18, 2017 08:07 PM (6n332)

155 http://www.ulalaunch.com/webcast.aspx

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:07 PM (GPaiX)

156 Ugh.... Auto correct


Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM


Ahhh... I think TTRL may be his best flick and I'm an old Badlands fan.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 08:08 PM (lmIoG)

157 I thought that the Thin Red Line sucked monkey balls. And I don't ask much from a movie.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:08 PM (LTHVh)

158 142 Who can forget such great lines as "its not for eatin', just for lookin' through".
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (mpXpK)

143 ..endeavor to persevere ...
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (LTHVh)

Buzzards gotta eat, same as the worms.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:09 PM (GsAUU)

159 We were Soldiers - another great movie.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 18, 2017 07:53 PM (mpXpK)


I have one major complaint with that movie: the scenes with the wives back home. I'm not bothered by the idea of them, but they were jarring and insipid and took you out of what was happening on the field. I don't know how exactly they could have been done better, but they were like a needle coming off a record and switching to a new one.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:09 PM (8nWyX)

160 114 Weren't there two with the orangutan?
Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 07:55 PM (jw2Xw)
***

Every Which Way But Loose
and
Any Which Way You Can

Right turn, Clyde.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 08:09 PM (tJGHm)

161
You know what's a real good movie?

Revolver starring Jason Statham.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:10 PM (X4K8V)

162 Have you considered reading the first few issues of playboy? I think it would help to find actual publications or movies from the period that deal with the subject.
Posted by: The Collector

Thanks, I'll try to find some online..


Read some James Ellroy. Especially his earlier books.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur

Cool. will do!

Posted by: Jarvis W. Deplorable at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (1VbTq)

163 LMAO I'm a shitty Catholic.

Every Saturday I look up the sunset time so I can proceed to eat whatever I want, and curse DST for making me wait an hour longer.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (GsAUU)

164
151 LMAO NC Ref Sir Charles is not on the halftime show on TBS so I haven't seen his duds.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:06 PM (GsAUU)



He was on CBSs.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (cAnNx)

165 I like Jason Statham. Again, I don't demand a lot out of some movies.

de gustibus non disputandum est

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (LTHVh)

166 157 I thought that the Thin Red Line sucked monkey balls. And I don't ask much from a movie.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:08 PM (LTHVh)

--I agree. It was making the soldiers at Guadalcanal out to be angsty and navel-gazing like a typical Hollywood Vietnam flick. I think it was a remake and have not seen the original for comparison, though.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:13 PM (GsAUU)

167 --I think only Mel Gibson would make a Vietnam War movie that does not trash America and make American soldiers Teh Evil. Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (GsAUU)

Michael Bay probably could.

Posted by: Aunt Luna at March 18, 2017 08:13 PM (Zd2ZF)

168 Zoomie spacecraft launched.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:13 PM (EnKk6)

169 "if you write a novel in a language you made up, you can't fault the reader for not understanding your story. So in short, if I can't just plop down and enjoy the show, it's artistic fail"

It's still great business, though, if everybody buys it and nobody reads it.

Posted by: James Joyce at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (97XyN)

170 Looking in my stack I see that I have the old Ben Hur, and the new Ben Hur, and the 1925 Ben Hur. I rewatched Constantine last night and I remain convince that it is a good movie. Plus Rachel Weisz.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (LTHVh)

171
Another good Jason Statham movie is 13.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (X4K8V)

172 You can divide character into two types. Those in which the character remains the same throughout the movie and those in which the character grows (or deteriorates). The unchanging character is popular because it is easier and because it is conducive to sequels. Think James Bond or Jack Reacher. Occasionally changing character sequels and prequels are successful. For example, Darth Vader. Generally, I prefer the changing character movies; I.e., Rain Man, Lawrsnce of Arabia etc.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (Nwg0u)

173 I have one major complaint with that movie: the scenes with the wives back home. I'm not bothered by the idea of them, but they were jarring and insipid and took you out of what was happening on the field. I don't know how exactly they could have been done better, but they were like a needle coming off a record and switching to a new one.
Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:09 PM (8nWyX)

--I didn't notice. I was just appreciating Keri Russell's hotness with the '60s look.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (GsAUU)

174 >>> de gustibus non disputandum est

Look at Mr Fancypants speaking French.

Posted by: fuffy at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (jw2Xw)

175 Was wondering if one could see the rocket and how down south one could.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (GPaiX)

176 I place theme above everything else. What this means in practical terms is that when a movie does theme well, I'm willing to forgive "sins" of the other elements. A very good example of this is The Dark Knight Rises.

++++

It's interesting that you place theme above all else, and then choose a superhero movie for your example. What would you say was the theme of The Dark Knight Rises? You discussed the plot criticisms of others and dismissed them, but you never came back around and said anything about the theme itself.

I admit, I didn't watch the movie, at least not the whole thing (as I recall, I shut it off about 30 minutes in). However, my impression that the movie didn't have a whole lot to say in the message department. Criminals are bad and they should be punished?

The lack of an interesting theme is why I tend to avoid most superhero movies. They all say the same thing.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (R+30W)

177 I think it was a remake and have not seen the original for comparison, though.

I paid to see it in the theater because, hey, how can you fuck up a war movie?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (LTHVh)

178
He was on CBSs.
Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (cAnNx)


--Yeah, I liked it better the previous two nights when the halftime show was synched on all three networks (I don't get Tru TV).

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:17 PM (GsAUU)

179 Into the first second stage burn. Looking good so far.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 08:17 PM (sdi6R)

180 Just between us, I have a crush on Rachel Weisz.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:17 PM (LTHVh)

181
165 I like Jason Statham. Again, I don't demand a lot out of some movies.

de gustibus non disputandum est
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:11 PM (LTHVh)

--I bought Blitz for $3 at a K Mart about 3 years ago.

Fun and gritty movie, very much in the vein of Dirty Harry.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:18 PM (GsAUU)

182 It's still great business, though, if everybody buys it and nobody reads it.

Posted by: James Joyce at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (97XyN)



That's because you write tomlicks of great bloody yarbles.


Not like your humble narrator.

Posted by: Anthony Burgess at March 18, 2017 08:18 PM (9q7Dl)

183 172 You can divide character into two types. Those in which the character remains the same throughout the movie and those in which the character grows (or deteriorates). The unchanging character is popular because it is easier and because it is conducive to sequels. Think James Bond or Jack Reacher. Occasionally changing character sequels and prequels are successful. For example, Darth Vader. Generally, I prefer the changing character movies; I.e., Rain Man, Lawrsnce of Arabia etc.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (Nwg0u)

========

In terms of your two specific examples, Bond and Reacher, I'd say that those movies pretty much don't care about character and they're both plot driven movies.

Bond isn't really a character. He has character traits, but he mostly a vehicle for quips and mayhem.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:18 PM (Jj43a)

184 Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (R+30W)

Broadly speaking I'd say one of the biggest themes is self sacrifice. It's not surprising you didn't get it in the first thirty minutes though.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (FqgrG)

185 It's still great business, though, if everybody buys it and nobody reads it.
Posted by: James Joyce at March 18, 2017 08:15 PM (97XyN)


Frees up lots of time to write incredibly dirty letters, too.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (8nWyX)

186 We Were Soldiers Once did a good job with the mix of front and home, with the rocket thought just like the movie about the failed Apollo mission with Tom Hanks.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (GPaiX)

187 I rewatched Constantine last night and I remain convince that it is a good movie. Plus Rachel Weisz.
Posted by: Grump928(C)


It could have been a lot better. Lots of missed opportunities and the tone lacked seriousness or something.

It's too bad David Lynch doesn't do comic book movies.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (4YGWz)

188 161
You know what's a real good movie?

Revolver starring Jason Statham.

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:10 PM (X4K8V)

The guy can definitely carry an action movie.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (0mRoj)

189 For me, Character comes first.
If I don't have characters I care about, you gotta NAIL other elements. But if you have good characters, I can cut some slack for the other three deficiencies.
To a point.

Next is Plot/story. I have to care about what you do and it needs to make sense in the context of the movie.

Theme is important to me, I'm always asking what a movie is ABOUT. But I've seen a ton of movies I've loved that don't have much of a theme, mostly comedies (Caddyshack, Ghostbusters, Fletch)

Style is last and least. I hate style over substance. I like pretty pictures and pretty people but I need to care about them first, need to believe what they're doing, need to be entertained. Then I can rusticate about thinking about style and theme.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:20 PM (xJa6I)

190 176 It's interesting that you place theme above all else, and then choose a superhero movie for your example. What would you say was the theme of The Dark Knight Rises? You discussed the plot criticisms of others and dismissed them, but you never came back around and said anything about the theme itself.

I admit, I didn't watch the movie, at least not the whole thing (as I recall, I shut it off about 30 minutes in). However, my impression that the movie didn't have a whole lot to say in the message department. Criminals are bad and they should be punished?

The lack of an interesting theme is why I tend to avoid most superhero movies. They all say the same thing.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (R+30W)

========

That's reasonable.

The theme of that one is the idea of sacrifice. Wayne doing everything he can for his fellow man. Rejecting selfishness and embracing selflessness to the fullest measure.

That's how I read it at least.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:21 PM (Jj43a)

191 I favorite Jason Statham movie (okay, the only one I've seen) is Crank: High Voltage. It's packed with dafuq.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:22 PM (EnKk6)

192 MY.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:22 PM (EnKk6)

193 Character probably do come first, Fear the Waliking Dead I found no one to like so am rooting for the zombies to win.

Posted by: Skip at March 18, 2017 08:23 PM (GPaiX)

194 Enjoying these movie threads -- thanks TheJamesMadison!

The VALUES projected by a movie -- and to the extent they do or do not resonate with my own -- are usually (but not always) critical to whether or not I'll enjoy it.

I suppose that this is subsumed primarily in the Theme, and secondarily in one or more Characters.

Posted by: ShainS at March 18, 2017 08:23 PM (mt8X9)

195 184 Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:16 PM (R+30W)

Broadly speaking I'd say one of the biggest themes is self sacrifice. It's not surprising you didn't get it in the first thirty minutes though.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 08:19 PM (FqgrG)

++++

If only I had that trait... I could have watched the whole movie.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:23 PM (R+30W)

196 189 Style is last and least. I hate style over substance. I like pretty pictures and pretty people but I need to care about them first, need to believe what they're doing, need to be entertained. Then I can rusticate about thinking about style and theme.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:20 PM (xJa6I)

========

I normally agree, but one exception to that I've found is the movie The Neon Demon by Refn.

It's quite literally all style and I loved every second of it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:23 PM (Jj43a)

197 Best "Western" not set in America?

The Proposition.

Awesome movie.

I'm not really dropping a spoiler in saying that John Hurt's character gets killed in it.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (GsAUU)

198 "As long as it's tasteful and organic to the story."

And the tits and ass are awesome.
Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at March 18, 2017 08:03 PM (+sRjj)

Word

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (xJa6I)

199
I have one major complaint with that movie: the scenes with the wives back home. I'm not bothered by the idea of them, but they were jarring and insipid and took you out of what was happening on the field. I don't know how exactly they could have been done better, but they were like a needle coming off a record and switching to a new one.
Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:09 PM (8nWyX)

Blatant attempt to get a female audience buy in...

and with some Women... it did work.

Posted by: Don Q. at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (NgKpN)

200 How often have you watched movies made from books that you read and enjoyed and came away satisfied?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (LTHVh)

201 I favorite Jason Statham movie (okay, the only one I've seen) is Crank: High Voltage. It's packed with dafuq.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:22 PM (EnKk6)


waitwait... not even Snatch?

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (8nWyX)

202 I normally agree, but one exception to that I've found is the movie The Neon Demon by Refn.

It's quite literally all style and I loved every second of it.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:23 PM (Jj43a)
---
I just saw this! What a great chilly horror flick that was, by design, all surface. Nifty soundtrack too.

It reminded me of Liquid Sky.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (EnKk6)

203 The Gods Must Be Crazy really made sense to me.

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (zLDYs)

204 I haven't seen Neon Demon yet. Not a fan of gore and I hear its a bit juicy.

I'm two episodes into Westworld and enjoying that so far. Arguing with the wife about if it's a good show and if Westworld would be fun to visit for her.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (xJa6I)

205 Michael Bay movies have plots? Or just explosions?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (DotZb)

206 197 Best "Western" not set in America?

The Proposition.

Awesome movie.

I'm not really dropping a spoiler in saying that John Hurt's character gets killed in it.
Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (GsAUU)

=========

Yes.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (Jj43a)

207 The Gods Must Be Crazy really made sense to me.

*click*whistle*

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (LTHVh)

208 @ Anna

Check out 13 Hours. It's so good, you'll forget Bay made it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:26 PM (xJa6I)

209 The Thin Red Line

-
Small mercy. They'll never make a girl power Thin Red Line starring Amy Schumer and Lena Dunham. They'd have to call it The Fat Red Line.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:26 PM (Nwg0u)

210 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6)

211 200 How often have you watched movies made from books that you read and enjoyed and came away satisfied?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:24 PM (LTHVh)

=======

Many times. Movies and books are different. They convey information in different ways. Things books do all movies can't do well and vice versa.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:28 PM (Jj43a)

212 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6)


They're functionally identical films. Snatch just happens to be the one with Jason Statham.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:28 PM (8nWyX)

213 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6)

=====

There's a difference?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (Jj43a)

214 Style is last and least. I hate style over substance. I like pretty pictures and pretty people but I need to care about them first, need to believe what they're doing, need to be entertained. Then I can rusticate about thinking about style and theme.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:20 PM (xJa6I)

--Veering from movies to TV, that is my main criticism of Mad Men. Style-wise it is A+, especially the tasty women in it. But the characters? Blah. I binged when AMC had a marathon its final season, and nevertheless I could just not get interested/invested --love or hate-- in any of the characters.

In some ways, The Sopranos was very low on style, but the characters (except for Meadow, feh) were soooooo good and made it one of the GOAT.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (GsAUU)

215 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....



Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6



Snatch has Brad Pitt as some Irish/gypsy type guy.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (cAnNx)

216 It reminded me of Liquid Sky.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (EnKk6)



Hey, wasn't "Liquid sky" the freaky movie what had freaky Denise(???) Crosby, Bing Crosby's grand-daughter or something nekkid in it-

and then she became an officer on Star Trek TNG until she got eaten by the black goo monster of hate?


actually, somebody weave that all together into a movie starring Jennifer Lawerence.

I'd watch the hell outta that.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (9q7Dl)

217 So Chuck Berry's dead. Little Richard must be starting to feel lonely.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (LTHVh)

218 The one movie that was better than the book (at least to my kid self) was The Ten Commandments. Great sets, costumes, story, and an intermission! I read the very, very brief bit in my Children's Bible and it just lacked pizzazz.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:30 PM (EnKk6)

219 I hope Butler wins so they can bring their adorable mascot to the Sweet 16.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:30 PM (GsAUU)

220 >>Put a kid in it!


Heh. "Bad News Bears." Make sure some of the kids are sassy.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (NOIQH)

221 Theme: This is the subtext of a narrative, i.e., the message or point.

my personal order of importance:
1. Theme
2. Character
3. Style
4. Plot

++++

I disagree with this, strongly. I will turn a movie off if the message is too offensive or overbearing, but I can fully enjoy a movie that has a point I don't necessarily agree with. Warren Beatty's "Reds" was a fantastic movie. It gave an interesting portrayal of the events surrounding the beginning of the USSR, from the perspective of an American communist. The writer of the book the movie was based on, John Reed, one of only 3 Americans to be buried in Red Square.

I don't like communism. Ronald Reagan was right, it is an evil ideology, and the movie does not depict it as such. But, the movie does capture the naive idealism of some of the people who were supportive of that belief system. Plus, it told a good story on the personal level. Great acting, well developed characters, cinematically beautiful.

Using your rating system, it would be a bad movie. I place a higher priority on well developed characters and a plot that is interesting. Theme is also important for a movie to have; that is, I want it to say something, but I usually don't get put off by a message I don't agree with, as long as it doesn't go full SJW propaganda.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (R+30W)

222 How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this.

Also, when did the networks quit showing The Wizard of Oz on an annual basis?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (LTHVh)

223 MECO-1 and the spacecraft is in orbit. There will be a coast phase and two additional burns.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (sdi6R)

224 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6)

They're functionally identical films. Snatch just happens to be the one with Jason Statham.
Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:28 PM (8nWyX)

Both have Statham.

They're brothers from a different mother, both heist movies more or less. A good example of style, though I really like them both.

Lock, Stock is a little better as it feels like a story someone is telling their friends in a bar.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (xJa6I)

225 I read the very, very brief bit in my Children's Bible and it just lacked pizzazz.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:30 PM (EnKk6)

Tell it to God.



Posted by: tbodie at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (f9ze2)

226 It is best that I avoid watching 13 Hours because of the rage it will engender ... Hulk smash would be putting it mildly.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (DotZb)

227 203 The Gods Must Be Crazy really made sense to me.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (zLDYs)

--Classic movie. Have never seen the sequel; I heard it was Teh Suxxor.

It was so hilariously low-budget, but I love how it started out as a straight-up documentary, then unfolded into the story. I also like the "It's an interesting psychological phenomenon" motif.

It has been so long, and I have not seen it in years, even after I went to Namibia.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (GsAUU)

228 >>Snatch has Brad Pitt as some Irish/gypsy type guy.


And Jason Statham (mmmmm).

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (NOIQH)

229 Denise Crosby wan't in Liquid Sky, it was the unisexy Anne Carlisle.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (EnKk6)

230 @ logprof

I'm with ya.

I had a hard time with the Sopranos as it felt a little too much like glorifying people I feel should be killed by the Punisher.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:34 PM (xJa6I)

231 I can't swear that it was on your recommendation, sooth, but it probably was.
I watched Get Low with a girlfriend one weekend a while back. Great flick. Recommended with no reservations.

As noted above, Duvall can do no wrong. Add in another actor that can't miss I f he tried - Bill Murray - and you have entertainment gold.
I believe we watched St. Vincent that weekend, too. A wonderful Murray flick.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 08:34 PM (tJGHm)

232
They're functionally identical films.


Actually, Vinnie Jones is introduced in Snatch the same way he closes out Lock Stock: slamming someone's head in a car door. They aren't the same characters, but it's pretty obvious that the writers/director are acknowledging that it's basically the same movie.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:35 PM (8nWyX)

233 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.


You too?

Posted by: Timothy Richard Tebow at March 18, 2017 08:35 PM (GsAUU)

234
Little Richard is mort?

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:35 PM (X4K8V)

235 Oh kami, one of the new shows Amazon is pitching... Master Legend. Really? A skinny wharf rat looking guy in home-made armor, well except for the Robotcop bits, thinks he is a super hero?

Sorry but Kick-Ass thoroughly owns that concept.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (DotZb)

236 "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

-George Box, 1987



I think the reference is to scientific and mathematical models. A scientific model is an idealized construct of how things are thought to work, in the abstract, and within the context of various approximations. As such, they are necessarily inaccurate to some degree (i.e., "wrong"), but nevertheless provide a conceptual framework for thinking about the phenomenon in question.

The classic and obvious example is in calculus, where quadratic terms in dx are assumed to vanish. In physics, it would be manifest in, e.g., Taylor expansions that often neglect terms after quadratic.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (SRKgf)

237 215 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.

Oh wait, is that his heist flick? I think I saw that. Or maybe it was Lock, Stock....



Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:27 PM (EnKk6



Snatch has Brad Pitt as some Irish/gypsy type guy.
Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:29 PM (cAnNx)

Snatch is a great movie.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (0mRoj)

238 1. Character
2. Plot
3. Style
4. Theme
This is true for books as well.
I worked at a movie theater in high school. The two movies that opened there that really defined my movie experience were Dirty Harry and Jaws. Both character heavy.

Posted by: lauraleg at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (9vYU5)

239 How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this.

-
We need a John McClain Easter movie. Find the Egg Or Die Hard.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (Nwg0u)

240
Smokey Robinson still alive?

What about the guy who sings "I Feel Good!"?

Posted by: iSoothsayer iPro iLX at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (X4K8V)

241 221 Using your rating system, it would be a bad movie. I place a higher priority on well developed characters and a plot that is interesting. Theme is also important for a movie to have; that is, I want it to say something, but I usually don't get put off by a message I don't agree with, as long as it doesn't go full SJW propaganda.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (R+30W)

===========

I love Reds too, and for many of the same reasons you mention.

But this isn't a rating system. It's just a prism through which to view movies. My to 10 of all time doesn't include 10 movies that put theme first. Duck soup doesn't have much of a theme.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (Jj43a)

242 Both have Statham.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:32 PM (xJa6I)


Hah, no kidding. I missed that. I should watch that one again.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (8nWyX)

243 226 It is best that I avoid watching 13 Hours because of the rage it will engender ... Hulk smash would be putting it mildly.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (DotZb)

==============

I had already read the book and already had the rage.

The movie made me feel like I was there ... and cry.

Posted by: ShainS at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (mt8X9)

244 Denise Crosby wan't in Liquid Sky, it was the unisexy Anne Carlisle.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:33 PM (EnKk6)


Fiiiiiiiine.

Then maybe David Lynch can direct that movie with Jennifer Lawerence,

and Anne Carlisle becomes Denise Crosby in a dream when she stares into the eyes of a horned toad.

There. Plot hole fixed.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (9q7Dl)

245 233 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.
You too?
Posted by: Timothy Richard Tebow at March 18, 2017 08:35 PM (GsAUU)



Ahem.

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (SRKgf)

246 227 203 The Gods Must Be Crazy really made sense to me.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 08:25 PM (zLDYs)


Let me guess, you also love, Nacho Chihuahua

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 08:37 PM (voOPb)

247 Little Richard is mort?

No. He remains The Living Flame, which I always have found amusing.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:38 PM (LTHVh)

248 >>I disagree with this, strongly. I will turn a movie off if the message
is too offensive or overbearing, but I can fully enjoy a movie that has a
point I don't necessarily agree with.



When I think of movies I've truly hated - hated as opposed to "not my cup of tea" - it's usually message. I wanted to punch the tv at the end of "Life of David Gale" and "Nothing But the Truth."

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 08:38 PM (NOIQH)

249 218 The one movie that was better than the book (at least to my kid self) was The Ten Commandments. Great sets, costumes, story, and an intermission! I read the very, very brief bit in my Children's Bible and it just lacked pizzazz.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:30 PM (EnKk6)

--So it is written . . .

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:38 PM (GsAUU)

250 "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

-George Box, 1987

-
Boy, you said it!

- Al Gore

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:38 PM (Nwg0u)

251 All Hail Eris, the animated movie about Moses that came out in the '90s was pretty good and not offensive to Christians and Jews.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:39 PM (GsAUU)

252 236
I think the reference is to scientific and mathematical models. A scientific model is an idealized construct of how things are thought to work, in the abstract, and within the context of various approximations. As such, they are necessarily inaccurate to some degree (i.e., "wrong"), but nevertheless provide a conceptual framework for thinking about the phenomenon in question.

The classic and obvious example is in calculus, where quadratic terms in dx are assumed to vanish. In physics, it would be manifest in, e.g., Taylor expansions that often neglect terms after quadratic.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 18, 2017 08:36 PM (SRKgf)

========

You got it.

Fun fact: my dad meet Box on several occasions before Box's death.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:39 PM (Jj43a)

253 Yalikedags?

Posted by: Brad Pitt at March 18, 2017 08:39 PM (FqgrG)

254 210 I have not partaken of Snatch.
***

You don't know what you're missing!

(What? We're not doing "phrasing" anymore?)

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 08:39 PM (tJGHm)

255 Fish, and plankton. And sea greens, and protein from the sea. It's all here, ready. Fresh as harvest day. Fish and sea greens, plankton and protein from the sea. And then it stopped coming. And they came instead. So I store them here. I'm ready. And you're ready. It's my job. To freeze you. Protein, plankton...

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:40 PM (LTHVh)

256 Yalikedags?
Posted by: Brad Pitt at March 18, 2017 08:39 PM (FqgrG)


Supposedly Benicio Del Toro coached him on being nearly incomprehensible from his experience on The Usual Suspects.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:41 PM (8nWyX)

257 I think I'm generally plot-oriented (and my sense is that this tends to be disfavored).

I can forgive points of "style." And I find it fairly easily to forgive character flaws that others tend to find unforgivable. (I rooted for Dexter, to the bitter end when it seems that others really just wanted him to receive cosmic justice. I rooted for Walter White (and tend to regard Jessie as the one who doomed them to their fate) to the bitter end as well, just to give two examples.

I'm willing to accept the bounds of the world or universe presented to me. But I find it to be poor writing when the characters seem to make silly mistakes over and over again in the bounds of that world (see, e.g., The Walking Dead).

Going by your scale above, I guess my ranking would be:

1) Plot
2) Character
3) Theme
4) Style.

I love really complex series, like the BBC "Tinker Taylor Soldier Spy" and "Smileys' People." The more I'm exposed to a character I like (and understand the backstory) the more I suppose character matters). For example, I actually cried in theater a couple of times during the Fellowship of the Ring, in the scene where Galadriel refused the offer of the Ring by Frodo -- but that's only because I saw it as her coming to terms with her original decision, thousands of years ago, to pursue Morgoth to Middle-Earth to reclaim the Silmarils. She's being offered there everything that she's wanted for thousands of years, and chooses instead to "diminish, go into the West, and remain Galadriel." Without the backstory, I'd find it much less powerful.

That said, if I was presented with a Kafka-esque style-piece, I'm pretty sure I could accept it and run with that too.

Posted by: Revenant at March 18, 2017 08:41 PM (ER4LC)

258 Al Gore dies after being beaten with Manns Hockey stick.

Posted by: Fictitious and Ironic News Headlines at March 18, 2017 08:42 PM (W6Ch1)

259 257


That said, if I was presented with a Kafka-esque style-piece, I'm pretty sure I could accept it and run with that too.
Posted by: Revenant at March 18, 2017 08:41 PM (ER4LC)

=======

You're not wrong. There are probably a bunch of movies we won't agree on.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:42 PM (Jj43a)

260 TheJamesMadison,
Happy for you that Ace gave you a blog about films. Hope to have time to participate next week. Look forward to reading this later this weekend.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at March 18, 2017 08:43 PM (2qHjF)

261 MisHum @ 246- Nacho Chihuahua?
Never heard of that one. Is that a movie?

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 08:43 PM (zLDYs)

262 The classic and obvious example is in calculus, where quadratic terms in dx are assumed to vanish. In physics, it would be manifest in, e.g., Taylor expansions that often neglect terms after quadratic.

-
I like pi.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (Nwg0u)

263 Speaking of Kafka makes me think of bugs, and that leads me to Naked Lunch (remember his bug typewriter?). I think I need to see this again.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (EnKk6)

264 260 TheJamesMadison,
Happy for you that Ace gave you a blog about films. Hope to have time to participate next week. Look forward to reading this later this weekend.
Posted by: Widespread Pepe at March 18, 2017 08:43 PM (2qHjF)

=======

It's all OM.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (Jj43a)

265 The one movie that was better than the book (at least to my kid self) was The Ten Commandments. Great sets, costumes, story, and an intermission! I read the very, very brief bit in my Children's Bible and it just lacked pizzazz.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:30 PM (EnKk6)


If one were to, hypothetically, go ahead and admit to perving on a shirtless Yul Brynner, I don't think we're the judgmental type around here.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (8nWyX)

266 Um, Lena isn't fat.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (6FqZa)

267 I had managed to forget that movie All Hail Eris, now... thanks.

Where did I put the RAID?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:45 PM (DotZb)

268 Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 08:43 PM (zLDYs)

Yes it is, and a very, very, very bad movie

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 08:45 PM (voOPb)

269 Speaking of Jason Statham, saw "The Mechanic Reborn" or whatever the 2nd one is called, and he has been making essentially the same movie for years. Criminal with a very narrow specialty and deep moral code who gets screwed over by a client/fellow criminal so he goes on a wicked rampage seeking revenge, usually one that involves rescuing a babe or kid.

And yet I never tire of his movies .
Guess I'm a sucker for *cough* style.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 08:45 PM (NOIQH)

270
I had a hard time with the Sopranos as it felt a little too much like glorifying people I feel should be killed by the Punisher.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 18, 2017 08:34 PM (xJa6I)

--If you look at it as being about a Type A executive whose business happens to be illegal and the challenges of juggling his work with his family life, it's more enjoyable to settle in. It has great, great moments of morality. I *love* the scene where Paulie is trying to steal the money the old lday (I'm remiss about who she was) stashes in her home and she tells him even as he's about to kill her "You're a bastard. You've always been a bastard!"

Not to mention when Tony gets nonplussed when the Russian nurse turns out to be as detached about him as he was about his other paramours.

R.I.P. James Gandolfini. (I heard he was a good guy IRL.)

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:45 PM (GsAUU)

271 If one were to, hypothetically, go ahead and admit to perving on a shirtless Yul Brynner, I don't think we're the judgmental type around here.
Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:44 PM (8nWyX)
---
This is a safe space, Hogsworth. We never judge at the AoSHQ.

And I think there's a sexual special dispensation for period dramas.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:46 PM (EnKk6)

272 --I think only Mel Gibson would make a Vietnam War movie that does not trash America and make American soldiers Teh Evil.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:00 PM (GsAUU)

++++

The Deer Hunter was pro-American. Especially the American people. The movie gets off to a slow start, but it is because Cimino is showing us who those people are before he puts them in the middle of war. The bad guys were all the enemy: the Vietnamese.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:47 PM (R+30W)

273 This is a safe space, Hogsworth. We never judge at the AoSHQ.

And I think there's a sexual special dispensation for period dramas.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:46 PM (EnKk6)


Like a judo master, this one.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 08:47 PM (8nWyX)

274 Just finished traveling which included time to watch a bunch of movies. Here's one:

The Eagle Huntress:

Awesome movie. Go see it.

The 'feminism' as such is pitched perfectly. If you're worried about getting clubbed over the head by The Message - don't.

A 12yo girl steals an eagle from the nest and, with her dad's help, turns it into a weapon.

Great visuals.


-

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 08:48 PM (om8sC)

275 Um, Lena isn't fat.

Aroo? Hefty, chunky, pudgy?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:48 PM (LTHVh)

276 lday (I'm remiss about who she was)

Friend of his mother's at the retirement home IIRC.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (FqgrG)

277 Can no one be zaftig anymore? It's a great word.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (EnKk6)

278 Maybe not at the retirement home but definitely a friend of his mom.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (FqgrG)

279 Okay, lets talk science fiction movies. On TJM's four axis of comparison.

Forbidden Planet
2001: A Space Odyssey
Alien
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (DotZb)

280 All this talk of Snatch and Lock, Stock... makes me remember another good flick I bought about that same time and haven't seen since.
Not really related, but a great movie (as I remember it).

Lucky Number Slevin.
Awesome cast, great dialog, good action.
I think when/if the dog gets off my lap, I'll go make another drink and look in those boxes in the office for the dvd.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 08:50 PM (tJGHm)

281 The Deer Hunter was pro-American. Especially the American people. The movie gets off to a slow start, but it is because Cimino is showing us who those people are before he puts them in the middle of war. The bad guys were all the enemy: the Vietnamese.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:47 PM (R+30W)

--I'll have to see it again. It's been over 20 years. I do recall that it portrayed blue collar Americans --Trump's peeps-- in a sympathetic light.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:50 PM (GsAUU)

282 275 Um, Lena isn't fat.



Whales aren't fat?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 08:50 PM (voOPb)

283 To me, zaftig is still resisting gravity. Dunham surrendered years ago.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:51 PM (LTHVh)

284 Srsly, check out Lena now. She lost weight.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at March 18, 2017 08:52 PM (6FqZa)

285 Lena Dunham is fat. Did you not see her bikini pic the other week?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 08:52 PM (hVdx9)

286 Zaftig or Rubenesque?

Ah that is the question is it not?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:52 PM (DotZb)

287
It's my job. To freeze you. Protein, plankton...
Posted by: Grump928(C)


Logan! Spend the night in the box.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (IqV8l)

288 How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this.


Russian hacking.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (JZdsf)

289 278 Maybe not at the retirement home but definitely a friend of his mom.
Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (FqgrG)

--Yeah, I recall the setup. The old ladies were sneaking out rolls from the restaurant and the one lady lets out how she socks away money in her place while Pauley is at the table.

Paulie was a great character. Chris and Big Pussy as well.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (GsAUU)

290 Have always loved John Carpenter's The Thing, with Kurt Russell.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (Tyii7)

291 Zaftig is like a piece of fruit, turgid with juice, picked at the peak of flavor.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (LTHVh)

292 Lena is just big boned.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (JZdsf)

293
280 All this talk of Snatch and Lock, Stock... makes me remember another good flick I bought about that same time and haven't seen since.
Not really related, but a great movie (as I remember it).

Lucky Number Slevin.
Awesome cast, great dialog, good action.
I think when/if the dog gets off my lap, I'll go make another drink and look in those boxes in the office for the dvd.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 08:50 PM (tJGHm)







That's a fun one. The dialog between whatsisname and Lucy Liu is snappy, old school with a modern twist. Like if Howard Hawks or Preston Sturges were making movies now.

Plus, Liu is amazingly, heartbreakingly edible.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (cuZZW)

294 Zaftig or Rubenesque?

Ah that is the question is it not?



Traveling up the scale then you have "Porcine" and "Moose-like"

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 18, 2017 08:54 PM (JZdsf)

295 >>Lucky Number Slevin.


Good one. A revenge flick you have no idea is about revenge until the end. Brutal, though. Also great song at the end.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 08:54 PM (NOIQH)

296 279 Okay, lets talk science fiction movies. On TJM's four axis of comparison.

Forbidden Planet
2001: A Space Odyssey
Alien
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 08:49 PM (DotZb)
---
What else is there to talk about, really?

Movie: --> Magazine cover it resembles

FP: Amazing Stories
2001: Analog
Alien: ??
Star Trek II: Starlog

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:55 PM (EnKk6)

297 LMAO I'm a shitty Catholic.

Every Saturday I look up the sunset time so I can proceed to eat whatever I want, and curse DST for making me wait an hour longer.
Posted by: logprof
----
Well, the Church had a few issues with Galileo too so you're in good company.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 18, 2017 08:55 PM (tr2D7)

298 Middle Tennessee vs. Butler is at 11.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:55 PM (GsAUU)

299 285 Lena Dunham is fat. Did you not see her bikini pic the other week?

Should we rerun that on the ONT?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 08:55 PM (voOPb)

300 Speaking of Kafka-


Hey!

Speaking of Kafka, does anyone remember that Soderbergh movie, "Kafka"?

I really enjoyed that. I wish someone would put it on blu-ray.

it would make a great double feature with

Woody Allen's "Shadows and Fog".

They sort of have a similar vibe and share some plot points.


The laughing maniac in "Kafka" is super creepy. Just great whenever he shows up.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 08:56 PM (9q7Dl)

301 Alien: ??

NOVA of course.

Posted by: freaked at March 18, 2017 08:56 PM (BO/km)

302 The complaint about the wives' scenes in We Were Soldiers being out of place is a bit misguided. There were a bunch of deleted scenes in WWS, and every one is worth watching on the DVD. They put the wives' scenes in context and really flesh out an already great movie.

I'd like to see a version of WWS with each deleted scene restored.

Posted by: Outside Adjitator at March 18, 2017 08:57 PM (hbvkG)

303 290 Have always loved John Carpenter's The Thing, with Kurt Russell.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (Tyii7)

--I re-watched it a few weeks ago, and had forgotten that Keith David was in it.

KD is an actor whom you might overlook visually, but his voice is instantly recognizable.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 08:57 PM (GsAUU)

304 Anna,

I would rank them
Alien
Forbidden Planet
Wrath of Khan
2001

Posted by: Darth Randall at March 18, 2017 08:57 PM (6n332)

305 Posted by: freaked at March 18, 2017 08:56 PM (BO/km)

Of course!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:58 PM (EnKk6)

306 To me, zaftig is still resisting gravity.

Literally, juicy. We'd say plump. Flabby is not plump.

Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 08:58 PM (HwVbl)

307 Spacecraft separation a couple of minutes ago. Webcast ended.

I have to say, I love watching live rocket launches online. The coverage is so much better than when network TV covered the flights back in the 60s and 70s. And of course, they only covered manned launches. You would never have seen a communications satellite launch like this one back then.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 08:58 PM (sdi6R)

308 288 How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this.


Russian hacking.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (JZdsf)



I would say Ten Commandments is the "Easter" movie because of Passover.

Posted by: buzzion at March 18, 2017 08:59 PM (cAnNx)

309 Have always loved John Carpenter's The Thing, with Kurt Russell.

-
That movie has plot, character, theme, and arguably style. You could probably write a pseudo-psychological Ph.D. dissertation about how the movie shows that we use masks to hide our darker emotions. Not we morons, of course. We not so much let it all hang out as blast it out of both barrels.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 18, 2017 09:00 PM (Nwg0u)

310 The Wives scenes in We Were Soldiers didn't throw me. Madeleine Stowe and Keri Russell played a role in that, I guess.

I'm rewatching National Treasure now - the first 35 minutes is a narrative masterpiece.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 09:00 PM (om8sC)

311 What else is there to talk about, really?

Movie: --> Magazine cover it resembles

FP: Amazing Stories
2001: Analog
Alien: ??
Star Trek II: Starlog
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 08:55 PM (EnKk6)


Alien: Omni

Posted by: Hugh Jorgen at March 18, 2017 09:01 PM (6GTWP)

312 Clark: I dunno what the hell's in there, but it's weird and pissed off, whatever it is.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 18, 2017 09:01 PM (Tyii7)

313 BTW, ifg you like John Carpenter's The Thing, you will probably like Stranger Things. The influence is unmistakable.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:03 PM (GsAUU)

314
Plus, Liu is amazingly, heartbreakingly edible.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at March 18, 2017 08:53 PM (cuZZWu)
***

Yeah, she made Charlie's Angels almost watchable.

Posted by: Lance Armstrong's Missing Nut at March 18, 2017 09:03 PM (tJGHm)

315 Big Trouble In Little China. Baboom!

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:04 PM (zLDYs)

316 It's interesting how some schools will have a hot run, but are so wedded to the charisma of the coach that after he departs they fall off the map (UNLV, anyone?).

I thought for sure Butler would return to obscurity after Brad Stephens left, but they are still humming along, even if they have not returned to the Final Four.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:04 PM (GsAUU)

317

Over time, I've come to the conclusion that "The Thing" is every bit as good as "Alien" and I didn't think that was possible. It might even be better.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 09:05 PM (lmIoG)

318 BTW, ifg you like John Carpenter's The Thing, you will probably like Stranger Things. The influence is unmistakable.

Duly noted and thanks for the tip.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 18, 2017 09:06 PM (Tyii7)

319 The Deer Hunter was pro-American. Especially the American people. The movie gets off to a slow start, but it is because Cimino is showing us who those people are before he puts them in the middle of war. The bad guys were all the enemy: the Vietnamese.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 08:47 PM (R+30W)

--I'll have to see it again. It's been over 20 years. I do recall that it portrayed blue collar Americans --Trump's peeps-- in a sympathetic light.
Posted by: logpro
---
If I squint real hard, I recognize my 22 yr old self in the bar scene with De Niro, the Army Sgt. home on leave and the barfly. WAY WAY in the background. For reals. Summer of '77 shot at the Bowl a drome by the Youngstown Sheet and Tube in Struthers OH. We skipped out of work at 10am to drink lunch there - had no idea the movie guys would be there. They hired a few of us to drink beer in the background.

We had no idea who the actors were but were lusting heavily on the barfly.

Drinking beer at 10:30 in the morning - talk about typecasting.

Posted by: Tonypete at March 18, 2017 09:06 PM (tr2D7)

320 I have to say, I love watching live rocket launches online.
Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 08:58 PM (sdi6R)


Same. Little guys with a high TWR just leap off the pad, and with things like the Delta IV you get that delicious crackling rumble. I used to think it was mic clipping from the sound level, but someone explained that it's actually from the shock waves inside the bell constructively combining and then canceling each other out, and that when you're watching a real live launch, not only is it very much present, it makes your eyeballs vibrate.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:06 PM (8nWyX)

321 'Push' is loads of fun. It's great for gamers and comic book fans, and it's clear the actors had fun with it and got into it as well.

Posted by: Ingot9455 at March 18, 2017 09:07 PM (7Jg/P)

322 MacReady: Why don't we just...wait here for a little while...see what happens?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 18, 2017 09:08 PM (Tyii7)

323 Okay, lets talk science fiction movies. On TJM's four axis of comparison.


Okay, so "Zardoz".

Since TJM isn't coming up with a movie that sucks in plot, characterization, and style but the theme carries it through-

I give you "Zardoz".


Terrible FX, almost nonexistent plot, Sean Connery in a red diaper, but....

you keep watching in spite of all of that because the theme is strong enough to pull you thru.

Plus, nekkid Charlotte Rampling.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:08 PM (9q7Dl)

324 How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this.


Passover and Easter are, at times, happening at the same time?

Posted by: Puddleglum at March 18, 2017 09:08 PM (X3MK1)

325 310 The Wives scenes in We Were Soldiers didn't throw me. Madeleine Stowe and Keri Russell played a role in that, I guess.

I'm rewatching National Treasure now - the first 35 minutes is a narrative masterpiece.
Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 09:00 PM (om8sC)

--Madeline Stowe. Yum. Such a svelte woman with such a deep, sexy voice. Same reason Angie Harmon is so irresistible to me, plus brunette.

National Treasure is another fun action movie. And without trying to be, it's actually kind of patriotic. If nothing else, it can get children hooked on American history. Another mpvie I like despite The Big Rat.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:09 PM (GsAUU)

326 I don't watch movies. I don't like the feeling of being led to places I might not want to go.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:09 PM (lwiT4)

327 321 'Push' is loads of fun. It's great for gamers and comic book fans, and it's clear the actors had fun with it and got into it as well.
Posted by: Ingot9455 at March 18, 2017 09:07 PM (7Jg/P)

=========

*Covers mouth with hand in a bid to hold in vomit*

*Mostly succeeds*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:09 PM (Jj43a)

328 Butler advances, but I feel for Middle Tennessee. They played their asses off. The ups, the downs. That passion is almost 100% lacking in the NBA.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:10 PM (GsAUU)

329 but are so wedded to the charisma of the coach that after he departs they fall off the map

I think the coach's ability may go a long way towards explaining that.

Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 09:10 PM (ZIFyZ)

330 326 I don't watch movies. I don't like the feeling of being led to places I might not want to go.
Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:09 PM (lwiT4)

Oh what could possibly go wrong with Disneys Old Yeller?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 09:11 PM (voOPb)

331 Lucy Liu: Asian babe, with freckles.

Mmmmmmm.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:12 PM (GsAUU)

332 Okay, so "Zardoz".

Since TJM isn't coming up with a movie that sucks in plot, characterization, and style but the theme carries it through-

I give you "Zardoz".


Terrible FX, almost nonexistent plot, Sean Connery in a red diaper, but....

you keep watching in spite of all of that because the theme is strong enough to pull you thru.

Plus, nekkid Charlotte Rampling.
Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:08 PM (9q7Dl)

=========

I missed the challenge:

Persona by Bergman

I don't really like it though despite loving Bergman.

Just because I think theme is the most important thing doesn't mean that I'm willing to forgive everything.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:12 PM (Jj43a)

333 Somebody mentioned Jason Stratham. If you haven't seen The Bank Job, see it. Its really really good.

Posted by: Puddleglum at March 18, 2017 09:14 PM (X3MK1)

334 Oh what could possibly go wrong with Disneys Old Yeller?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 18, 2017 09:11 PM (voOPb)


I especially like that funny scene when Old Yeller has obviously dipped his head in Jimmy's bubble bath-

and walks around with his mouth all bubbly like a beard.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:14 PM (9q7Dl)

335 [jumps to bottom of page where the comment box is to express an opinion]

Good post, interesting ideas.

I go with

Character
Scenario
Ideology (the character's basic world view)

Die Hard
Character
Scenario

Ideology (how would a modern day progressive react to being in John McCain's situation?)

Style? lots of explosions, defiance, perseverance, ordinary man who takes a punch and gets back up to fight some more.

Apollo 13
situation
character

Style?


Don't no nuffin bout style.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 18, 2017 09:17 PM (ryKqg)

336 335 I thought style was the most important until I saw 2001: A Space Odyssey. It had style in buckets yet left me strangely dissatisfied. Characters were not well defined and the plot confusing. For a movie so hyped up it failed with me.

Now, the original Star Wars had it all and I still measure movies against it, particularly those on its genre.
Posted by: Decaf at March 18, 2017 09:16 PM (AYDbA)

=========

The secret of 2001 I'd that HAL is the main character and deserves and earns more sympathy than any of the human characters.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (Jj43a)

337 Best movie starts with a Z?
Why Zulu, of course. It's got battles, drama, comedy, singing, heroism, history. Everything.

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (zLDYs)

338 329 but are so wedded to the charisma of the coach that after he departs they fall off the map

I think the coach's ability may go a long way towards explaining that.
Posted by: t-bird at March 18, 2017 09:10 PM (ZIFyZ)

--I considered ability as part of the package, wrapped up in the charisma. Maybe persona is a better term?

Recruiting is so key to the college game that unless a school is a blueblood steeped in tradition (where recruting is almost on auto-pilot) it can dry up when a good coach departs or retires. It must be very important for a small school like Butler to have a coach who is a keen pupil of another good coach (especially if it's the previous head coach) to keep performing at a high level.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (GsAUU)

339 though despite loving Bergman.


Though Bergman is known for being all shoot-me-now-Scandanavian-gloom,

have you ever seen "Smiles of a Summer Night"?

Just a delightful comedy and wise in its own way.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:19 PM (9q7Dl)

340 337 Best movie starts with a Z?
Why Zulu, of course. It's got battles, drama, comedy, singing, heroism, history. Everything.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (zLDYs)

========

Z is better.

Political thriller set in Eastern Europe. It's almost perfect.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:19 PM (Jj43a)

341 Best movie starts with a Z?
Why Zulu, of course. It's got battles, drama, comedy, singing, heroism, history. Everything.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (zLDYs)


You chose... wisely.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:20 PM (8nWyX)

342
Best movie starts with a Z?
Why Zulu, of course.


What about "Z"?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 09:20 PM (IqV8l)

343 339 though despite loving Bergman.


Though Bergman is known for being all shoot-me-now-Scandanavian-gloom,

have you ever seen "Smiles of a Summer Night"?

Just a delightful comedy and wise in its own way.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:19 PM (9q7Dl)

========

Loved it. The Virgin Spring though is my favorite of his.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:20 PM (Jj43a)

344 TJM @ 340- political thriller?
I can't take another one of those after this past election and the current goatcluster.

Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:21 PM (zLDYs)

345
To be properly impressed by 2001 you had to watch it in 1968.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 09:21 PM (IqV8l)

346 345
To be properly impressed by 2001 you had to watch it in 1968.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 18, 2017 09:21 PM (IqV8l)

========

Pfft.... I'm 31 and that movie has interested me every time I've watched it.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:22 PM (Jj43a)

347 New Wisconsin State Motto:


Our White Boys Can Ball!

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:23 PM (GsAUU)

348 >>Best movie starts with a Z?


Zodiac?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 09:24 PM (NOIQH)

349 "The secret of 2001 I'd that HAL is the main character and deserves and earns more sympathy than any of the human characters."

Because he sang "A Bicycle Built for Two" at the end.

Posted by: navybrat at March 18, 2017 09:24 PM (w7KSn)

350 Pfft.... I'm 31 and that movie has interested me every time I've watched it.


Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:22 PM



Theme + Style?

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 09:25 PM (lmIoG)

351 Great movies that run the bases: Lilies of the Field, To Kill a Mocking Bird, Shane, Chinatown, LA Confidential, and Patton. There are others, but that is a good start.

Posted by: colfax mingo at March 18, 2017 09:25 PM (PX+kj)

352 344 TJM @ 340- political thriller?
I can't take another one of those after this past election and the current goatcluster.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:21 PM (zLDYs)

--Yeah, seriously, there has been nothing fictional created by the mind of man that comes even close to the past 2 years. It has been over three years since I've watched House of Cards, but I know I'll find it plodding and ponderous if I pick it up again.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:26 PM (GsAUU)

353 I remember when 2001 first came out. The sheet music became standard fare of high school marching bands.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:26 PM (lwiT4)

354 349 Because he sang "A Bicycle Built for Two" at the end.
Posted by: navybrat at March 18, 2017 09:24 PM (w7KSn)

========

Because he was the most human character despite being a robot.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:26 PM (Jj43a)

355 350 Theme + Style?
Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 09:25 PM (lmIoG)

========

+Character. HAL is a great tragic character.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:27 PM (Jj43a)

356 316 It's interesting how some schools will have a hot run, but are so wedded to the charisma of the coach that after he departs they fall off the map (UNLV, anyone?).

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:04 PM (GsAUU)

============

I grew up in Vegas and was there during the Tarkanian years.

He put UNLV on the map by bringing in mostly L.A. inner-city phenoms who couldn't get into real colleges, having their tests taken for them, and then spitting most of them out -- the ones who didn't make it to the NBA -- when they were no longer of use to him.

His players' graduation rate overall was something like 3% ...

Posted by: ShainS at March 18, 2017 09:27 PM (mt8X9)

357 The big reveal at the end of 2001 that no one seems to catch is it was Daisy who drove HAL crazy, not the mission.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:29 PM (DotZb)

358 Great movies that run the bases: Lilies of the Field, To Kill a Mocking Bird, Shane, Chinatown, LA Confidential, and Patton. There are others, but that is a good start.
Posted by: colfax mingo at March 18, 2017 09:25 PM (PX+kj)


Moon.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:30 PM (8nWyX)

359 +Character. HAL is a great tragic character.


Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:27 PM


Yes.

Posted by: otho at March 18, 2017 09:31 PM (lmIoG)

360 Wait, there is a CHIPS movie? Eric Estrada with a cameo, I am sure.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:31 PM (R7+kO)

361 "How come The Ten Commandments is the network Easter Movie, and not Ben Hur or The Robe? I have always wondered about this. "

TTC is the passover story. The Joos at ABC like to piss on the Christians at Easter.

Posted by: JAS at March 18, 2017 09:32 PM (Kresa)

362 357 The big reveal at the end of 2001 that no one seems to catch is it was Daisy who drove HAL crazy, not the mission.
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:29 PM (DotZb)

I'll have you know that I was informed by 2010 that it was evil humans who drove HAL crazy.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (R7+kO)

363
His players' graduation rate overall was something like 3% ...
Posted by: ShainS at March 18, 2017 09:27 PM (mt8X9)

--I still remember some of David Letterman's "Top Ten Classes at UNLV" at the time:

How to spell Tarkanian

Your Ass From a Hole in the Ground: A Comparitive Study

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (GsAUU)

364 My dad watched Zulu a bunch of times and I often watched it with him.
One heck of a movie.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (hVdx9)

365 >>Great movies that run the bases: Lilies of the Field, To Kill a Mocking
Bird, Shane, Chinatown, LA Confidential, and Patton. There are others,
but that is a good start.



"The Secret in Their Eyes" - the original Argentinian one.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (NOIQH)

366 Okay, yes, style shouldn't be placed above substance, but I like style *straddling* substance, or perhaps scissoring it. I think 2001: A Space Odyssey lets the settings be one of the characters and how the environment affects and interacts with them is what makes the movie so interesting to me. Kubrik always seems to make us, the audience, one step removed from the characters. Observing, like HAL. Other flicks put us right in the thick of it, personalizing the experience.

Like Kubrik's Barry Lyndon. We're reading the story, not in it.

Does this make any sense? I'm a bit out of it.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (EnKk6)

367 We only know that Dr. Chandra claimed to have found that in HAL's memory.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:34 PM (DotZb)

368 The big reveal at the end of 2001 that no one seems to catch is it was Daisy who drove HAL crazy, not the mission.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:29 PM (DotZb)


YES^^^^

Hal was half-crazy all for the love of her.

Posted by: naturalfake at March 18, 2017 09:35 PM (9q7Dl)

369 367 We only know that Dr. Chandra claimed to have found that in HAL's memory.
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:34 PM (DotZb)

And that guy was a creepy little gnome.

Good actor for those types of parts.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:35 PM (R7+kO)

370 One of my faves is Buckaroo Banzai (on Amazon Prime now!)

Style - Character - Plot - Theme. Maybe I should say Style - Style - Character - Plot.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, at Provisional Basestar at March 18, 2017 09:36 PM (66CWr)

371 366 Like Kubrik's Barry Lyndon. We're reading the story, not in it.

Does this make any sense? I'm a bit out of it.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (EnKk6)

==========

I think it does. It always seems that nothing is happening in Barry Lyndon but it's actually stuffed with information. Kubrick's style seems like it hides information from the viewer, but it's just a bit more demanding.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:36 PM (Jj43a)

372 NC Ref, LMAO now I see Barkley's suit.

It's a 3-piece; I like that. Old School.

Kenny Smith's coat is weirder to me.

--and that's probably all the fashion commentary I'm good for today.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:38 PM (GsAUU)

373 Where's this St. Mary's college at? They are hanging in there with Arizona.

Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (lwiT4)

374 Best movie starts with a Z?
Why Zulu, of course. It's got battles, drama, comedy, singing, heroism, history. Everything.
Posted by: Eromero at March 18, 2017 09:18 PM (zLDYs)

You chose... wisely.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:20 PM (8nWyX)



Starring Joseph Biden Stewart Granger and Ava Gardner?

Posted by: Maitre de Don at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (4lzWT)

375 Like Kubrik's Barry Lyndon. We're reading the story, not in it.

Does this make any sense? I'm a bit out of it.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:33 PM (EnKk6)

========

It does. I was a big Stephen King fan as a teenager. However, every one of the movies that came from them was disappointing because pre-accident he wrote in such a way as it was better read/viewed in your mind than on the big screen. Possible exceptions to this are The shining and Christine.

Posted by: Flyboy at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (Ikqnf)

376 Okay, good soundtracks (not just the big John Williams scores):

Darkon
Another Earth
The Neon Demon
Tron: Legacy

What do you like?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (EnKk6)

377 373 Where's this St. Mary's college at? They are hanging in there with Arizona.
Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (lwiT4)

--I think in CA. I know they're in Gonzaga's conference.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (GsAUU)

378 hogmartin

For Asian Horror check out THE GUARD POST and THE WAILING.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (dKiJG)

379 Thanks logprof

Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:41 PM (lwiT4)

380 376 Okay, good soundtracks (not just the big John Williams scores):

Darkon
Another Earth
The Neon Demon
Tron: Legacy

What do you like?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (EnKk6)

--Just listened to it twice yesterday (because St. Patrick):

Waking Ned Devine

Speaking of movies that nail all the narrative elements . . .

One of my Top Ten.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:42 PM (GsAUU)

381 Okay, good soundtracks (not just the big John Williams scores):
What do you like?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (EnKk6)


Moon.

Moonmoonmoonmoonmoon.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:42 PM (8nWyX)

382 377 373 Where's this St. Mary's college at? They are hanging in there with Arizona.
Posted by: grammie winger at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (lwiT4)

--I think in CA. I know they're in Gonzaga's conference.
Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (GsAUU)

10 miles east of Oakland, per wikipedia.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:43 PM (R7+kO)

383 For Asian Horror check out THE GUARD POST and THE WAILING.
Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (dKiJG)


tyvm, will do.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 09:43 PM (8nWyX)

384 I liked Moon a lot but don't remember the soundtrack.

Quick, to the YouTubeMobile!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:43 PM (EnKk6)

385 Why Zulu, of course. It's got battles, drama, comedy, singing, heroism, history. Everything.
Posted by: Eromero
-------------

I approve.

Posted by: Rorke at March 18, 2017 09:44 PM (ZO497)

386 Sidebar - Its Chuck Berry, not Barry. Please to be correcting, sahib.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 18, 2017 09:44 PM (JO9+V)

387 376 Okay, good soundtracks (not just the big John Williams scores):

Darkon
Another Earth
The Neon Demon
Tron: Legacy

What do you like?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (EnKk6)

The Last of the Mohicans is a classic.
Titanic has good music aside from the Celine Dion.
Braveheart

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:45 PM (R7+kO)

388 Thanks again TheJamesMadison for another great movie thread.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:45 PM (EnKk6)

389 >>Moon.

Moonmoonmoonmoonmoon.









Posted by: GERTY at March 18, 2017 09:45 PM (NOIQH)

390 For Japanese 'horror' that will make you check into a psyche ward for drug abuse even though you never touch the stuff, well there is from 1977 Hausu.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076162/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:46 PM (DotZb)

391 Apollo 13 was also good music.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:46 PM (R7+kO)

392 376 Okay, good soundtracks (not just the big John Williams scores):

Darkon
Another Earth
The Neon Demon
Tron: Legacy

What do you like?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:40 PM (EnKk6)

=======

Wrath of Khan
Sherlock Holmes 2

I get a kick out of both for very different reasons.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:46 PM (Jj43a)

393 [after reading 371 comments}

I liked 'Push'; liked the smart mouth girl who turns out to be right. Liked the idea (theme?) of the movie. Liked the style.

We were soldiers once. great movie, and I didn't 'like' it. I hate having my emotions jerked around.

Deer Hunter, tried to watch but wasn't in the mood for another anti war movie, which is what it looked like it was going to be.

Apocalypse Now great movie, but, depending on mood, I see it as an anti war movie.

Zulu, bought the dvd based on recommendations from the horde. Good movie. A couple of the battle scenes were thought provoking.

The Mechanic with Jason Stratham, love it; because of character and style. The Mechanic with Charles Bronson, same movie (same dialog in places) different style. A period piece, reflective of the time it was made, and didn't age well.

He who would be king. Great movie, didn't like what happened to the king (character), loved the style (Open set up - afterward), and enjoyed watching the two main characters preform.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 18, 2017 09:47 PM (ryKqg)

394 388 Thanks again TheJamesMadison for another great movie thread.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:45 PM (EnKk6)

=========

Yay!

You're welcome!!!!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:47 PM (Jj43a)

395 Waking Ned Devine

Theme: Friendship, even among crusty old guys

Plot: Oh my. I won't drop spoilers for those who have not seen it. Deception. Treachery. Allergies.

Character: Very, very humorous and instantly likeable --except for the Village Bitch

Style: The Irish coast is almost a character in itself. TV Tropes would call it Scenery Porn. And the aforementioned soundtrack is a delight in itself.

A movie I saw in the theater and wished would never end.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:47 PM (GsAUU)

396 Not necessarily soundtracks, but I like when music fits so well it elevates, such as in Kingsmen and Transporter.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 09:48 PM (NOIQH)

397 396 Not necessarily soundtracks, but I like when music fits so well it elevates, such as in Kingsmen and Transporter.
Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 09:48 PM (NOIQH)

This is an interesting point. Lileks had a podcast where he argued that if Star Wars had a typical 70's sci-fi soundtrack, it would be an unwatchable mess. He might well be right. I am not sure how many Bow-chikas Darth Vader could have carried off.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:50 PM (R7+kO)

398 Waking Ned Devine

Speaking of movies that nail all the narrative elements . . .

One of my Top Ten.
Posted by: logprof
-------------

AoSHQ, the home of obscure choice.

I have it on VHS. Ian Bannen was a good actor, he died not long after making that film. At the time of his death, he was living at Knockies Straight.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at March 18, 2017 09:51 PM (ZO497)

399 If someone wants a soundtrack that sets the mood, then yes Wrath of Khan gets almost a perfect score. Except for the East German judge who is a Klingon spy.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:51 PM (DotZb)

400 The Mission had a nice soundtrack too.

When I was a kid our classical music station had a great program featuring movie soundtracks and that's how I learned to appreciate the greats like Rozsa, Korngold, Waxman, Herrmann, Bernstein (Jooooooos), and moderns like Jerry Goldsmith.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:52 PM (EnKk6)

401 The Man Man From Nowhere, I really cared about the kid, and if you haven't seen it you should. great action movie.

Still don't know why DREDD didn't do well. It had character action and a great plot.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 09:52 PM (dKiJG)

402 I am not sure how many Bow-chikas Darth Vader could have carried off.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:50 PM (R7+kO)
---
He's a bad muthf---

Somebody needs to put Star Wars to 70's wakka-chikka musik.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:53 PM (EnKk6)

403 Just about any soundtrack by Ennio Morricone is awesome.

"Gabriel's Oboe" from The Mission (ooooo, what a great movie) has been performed over and over for a reason.

Wow, great version by 2 Cellos:

https://youtu.be/Dxxg6NenmBQ

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:53 PM (GsAUU)

404 Dimitri Tiomkin
Elmer Bernstein
Henry Mancini

Not in any order of preference

Posted by: Maitre de Don at March 18, 2017 09:54 PM (4lzWT)

405 Rozsa in Ben-Hur using period instruments succeeded very nicely.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:54 PM (DotZb)

406 Sherlock Holmes 2 is reminiscent of the Harry Lime theme.


And a lot of Roma-Klesmir type music.

Posted by: Kindltot at March 18, 2017 09:55 PM (WQX/u)

407 Off sock - stink

Posted by: gNewt at March 18, 2017 09:55 PM (4lzWT)

408 Still don't know why DREDD didn't do well. It had character action and a great plot.
Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 09:52 PM (dKiJG)

Too coldly focused on what it was trying to do. Probably lack of a character that the general audience could empathize with. Understand, maybe. Empathize with, probably not.

It was a good movie, and I liked what they did with it, but I can also see why people did not know what the heck they walked into.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:55 PM (R7+kO)

409 Many of the movies being recommend by the morons are movies I have never heard of. Poor education I'm guessing.

Whenever I want to be educated, I come here.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 18, 2017 09:55 PM (ryKqg)

410 404 Dimitri Tiomkin
Elmer Bernstein
Henry Mancini

Not in any order of preference

Posted by: Maitre de Don at March 18, 2017 09:54 PM (4lzWT)

John Wayne's Alamo has a darned good soundtrack (Tiomkin.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 18, 2017 09:56 PM (R7+kO)

411 Question for you knowledgeable Duke fans. I recently re-watched Sands of Iwo Jima on Amazon streaming and thought a scene was missing from what I remembered (misremembered?)

Which movie was it that had John Wayne as the Sergeant, assaulting the enemy's beach, sending his squad one-by-one up to set a charge (bangalore?) using reverse seniority (newest guy first). He had to threaten to shoot one of his guys to go do the task.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 18, 2017 09:56 PM (JO9+V)

412 Ahem.....ONT up

Posted by: Flyboy at March 18, 2017 09:56 PM (KXn9t)

413 It does. I was a big Stephen King fan as a teenager. However, every one of the movies that came from them was disappointing because pre-accident he wrote in such a way as it was better read/viewed in your mind than on the big screen. Possible exceptions to this are The shining and Christine.

Posted by: Flyboy at March 18, 2017 09:39 PM (Ikqnf)

++++

Creepshow, listed above as being in TJM's Netflix list, is excellent. It was made for the screen, so, no translation problems. The final product is very Stephen King and it's fun to watch.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 18, 2017 09:57 PM (R+30W)

414 All Hail Eris, like this???

https://youtu.be/6A0rwG39Jzk?t=3m17s

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 18, 2017 09:57 PM (DotZb)

415 I made my sons watch Zulu against their teenaged wishes.

A man's got to learn what to do with a drunk preacher and his daughter if, in a defensible position, they are surrounded by a superior force.
_

I also use the Color Sgt line:

I saw you ... you're ALIVE.

if they are non-responsive.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 09:59 PM (om8sC)

416 All Hail Eris, you beat me to The Mission.

We were soldiers once. great movie, and I didn't 'like' it. I hate having my emotions jerked around.

Deer Hunter, tried to watch but wasn't in the mood for another anti war movie, which is what it looked like it was going to be.

Apocalypse Now great movie, but, depending on mood, I see it as an anti war movie.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 18, 2017 09:47 PM

--I was actually debating Apocalypse Now with colleagues. I said that yeah, Full Metal Jacket was a better war movie, but I don't consider Apocalypse Now a war movie so much as about the human condition, since it is based on Heart of Darkness. It's too surreal to me to be a war flick, but if it is then it is anti-war.

Speaking of jerking with emotions, when I went to see Man on Fire with my dad and stepmother, at the end my stepmother (who is French, so she obviously tends to heavy movies) was tearing up.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 10:00 PM (GsAUU)

417 >>It does. I was a big Stephen King fan as a teenager. However, every one
of the movies that came from them was disappointing because pre-accident
he wrote in such a way as it was better read/viewed in your mind than
on the big screen.



Shawshank Redemption.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 10:01 PM (NOIQH)

418 I remember seeing a film about Chuck Berry. I think it was produced by Keith Richards. They interviewed Bruce Springsteen who volunteered to back Chuck when he needed a local band in New Jersey.
Bruce said Chuck had no idea who he was. Bruce asked what songs they were going to be playing. Chuck just said, "We're going to be playing Chuck Berry songs!", and then just started playing to intro to Johnny B Good!

Posted by: Very Irredeemably Undude at March 18, 2017 10:01 PM (2X7pN)

419 Another Soundtrack of Awesome:

The Power of One (Hans Zimmer)

The reprise of "Mama Africa" at the end is amazing.

Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 10:01 PM (GsAUU)

420 DREDD is damn near perfect.

A sequel featuring Trilby as the female lead with Urban in some capacity would be awesome. A riff on Fury Road if you will.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 10:01 PM (om8sC)

421 Another movie that checks all the boxes in your model: "Amelie."

Posted by: Lizzy at March 18, 2017 10:02 PM (NOIQH)

422 Just about any soundtrack by Ennio Morricone is awesome.
Posted by: logprof at March 18, 2017 09:53 PM (GsAUU)


Morricone was on deck to do the score for Sergio Leone's planned movie on the siege of Leningrad, starring Robert DeNiro. Leone died before it got off the ground.

So... hello, fellow denizens of what is clearly the wrong timeline.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 10:03 PM (8nWyX)

423 hogmartin

Really Really love BLOOD RAIN, it's more of a murder mystery but it's still good. Also THE HOST is now on Netflix, ignore the first 5 minutes.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 10:03 PM (dKiJG)

424 North by Northwest, a movie not to miss.

Posted by: gNewt at March 18, 2017 10:05 PM (4lzWT)

425 Which movie was it that had John Wayne as the Sergeant, assaulting the enemy's beach, sending his squad one-by-one up to set a charge (bangalore?) using reverse seniority (newest guy first). He had to threaten to shoot one of his guys to go do the task.
Posted by: Count de Monet at March 18, 2017 09:56 PM (JO9+V)

I think you're thinking of BIG RED ONE with Lee Marvin and Mark Hamil

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 10:07 PM (dKiJG)

426 A great movie that has a stupendously bad soundrack is "NIGHTHAWKS" starring Sylvester Stallone and Lando Callrisian. Score by Emerson of ELP.

And I say this as a person who's listened to AquaTarkus more than once.

The score is WAY too synth.

Movie from the same era that's really, really good is "The Soldier" starring Ken Wahl and Klaus Kinski. Thanks to Putin and Obama, the plot is relevant.

The soundtrack is by Tangerine Dream.

-

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 10:08 PM (om8sC)

427 >>>>>>Movies and books are different. They convey information in different ways. Things books do all movies can't do well and vice versa.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Thanks for this thread, I'm enjoying it. I wanted to repeat your wise comment here, because I think it's profound.

I'd add that it's the visual construction, the assemblage of images, plus sound and music that took narrative to a modern, higher level than books can reach.

Posted by: booknlass at March 18, 2017 10:11 PM (8mO0Q)

428 and Patrick is right. Big Red One has the scene described

Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 10:11 PM (om8sC)

429 Also THE HOST is now on Netflix, ignore the first 5 minutes.
Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 10:03 PM (dKiJG)


The Host pops up on my Netflix recommended list all the time, but I'm more into the Jacob's Ladder/R-Point/Silent Hill kind of thing than monster movies. I should probably just check it out though.

Posted by: hogmartin at March 18, 2017 10:12 PM (8nWyX)

430 "The secret of 2001 I'd that HAL is the main character and deserves and earns more sympathy than any of the human characters."

Because he sang "A Bicycle Built for Two" at the end.

Posted by: navybrat at March 18, 2017 09:24 PM
-------

OT, but reminds me of this: One of the first home computer kits, Altair 8080, had to be programmed in binary, through a set of toggle switches on the front panel. The programming tutorial included instructions on how to program the machine to play "Bicycle Built for Two." I think it was homage to Hal.

Posted by: EyeTest at March 18, 2017 10:12 PM (5x9My)

431 logprof at March 18, 2017 10:00 PM

Yep, Man on Fire, good movie.

Posted by: Skandia Recluse at March 18, 2017 10:12 PM (ryKqg)

432 I think you're thinking of BIG RED ONE with Lee Marvin and Mark Hamil

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at March 18, 2017 10:07 PM (dKiJG)


Don't think so as I've only ever watched that one once and only partially, but I will check it out to see. Thanks.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 18, 2017 10:14 PM (JO9+V)

433
and Patrick is right. Big Red One has the scene described



Posted by: BumperStickerist at March 18, 2017 10:11 PM (om8sC)

Thanks. My memory must be playing tricks on me.

Posted by: Count de Monet at March 18, 2017 10:16 PM (JO9+V)

434 I'm super late to the party but thanks for another great thread.

My personal ranking would be

1. Character
2. Plot
3. Theme
4. Style

If I care about the characters I'll watch through any amount of garbage to make sure they make it out (or not) okay. It takes a little bit to get me to care, but once that bridge is crossed I'm willing to forgive a lot.

Plot kind of ties into that, seeing as massive gaping plot holes would definitely put a damper on number 1.

Unrelated: Saw Lego Batman tonight. Good movie. A bit heavy handed on the liberalism (it takes a village) but it's a testament to the movie that I didn't hate it because of that. Original is still better though.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 18, 2017 10:41 PM (kXSGW)

435 394 388 Thanks again TheJamesMadison for another great movie thread.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at March 18, 2017 09:45 PM (EnKk6)

=========

Yay!

You're welcome!!!!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 18, 2017 09:47 PM (Jj43a)


Yes, I agree. I haven't watched very many movies lately, but it was good reading.

Maybe next time there won't be a rocket launch and I might be able to talk about movies.

Posted by: rickl at March 18, 2017 10:43 PM (sdi6R)

436 Sorry, but if there's no through line -- as in, PLOT -- it's a sequence of images or a group of people talking at each other. It's not narrative film.

Now, image-sequence can be profoundly disturbing & unforgettable. "The Act of Seeing with One's Own Eyes" (autopsies filmed with no sound) changed my life (okay: my filmmaker life). "Un Chien Andalou": the same. But these are a thing apart from narrative film.

Have fascinating characters. Profound themes. Stimulating dialogue. Without a plot to hang them from: it's not a movie.

Posted by: Shopgirl at March 18, 2017 10:59 PM (qWtD5)

437 Watch them 'elevens'.
"Nobody dies peacefully, in their sleep! It's what they tell people, to make them feel good. Want to know how people really die, in their sleep? "

Posted by: MichaelT at March 18, 2017 11:21 PM (JeAp+)

438 You shoulda started and stopped with Mr. Plinkett. He's got all this shit covered.

Posted by: noam sayen at March 19, 2017 12:21 AM (611Lm)

439 Speaking of jerking with emotions, when I went to see Man on Fire with my dad and stepmother, at the end my stepmother (who is French, so she obviously tends to heavy movies) was tearing up.
************

I too am French, so when that lovely, full-breasted Frenchwoman who lost her husband in the French-Indochinese war in "Apocalypse" jumps into bed with Martin Sheen and humps him "fou", I too was overcome with a jerking emotion--the one that made me starch my sheets.

Posted by: noam sayen at March 19, 2017 12:36 AM (611Lm)

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 19, 2017 05:31 AM (mpXpK)

441 I always thought those particular complaints about Dark Knight Rises were lame. Q1) How did he get back to Gotham from that prison? He's Bruce Wayne/Batman. It's not hard for him to get places. He probably has a plan for situations where he doesn't have his wallet or his batsuit handy. Q2) How did he have time to do the flaming bat signal? He did it beforehand, like he did lots and lots of other things beforehand, because he plans a lot. There are plot holes in the movie, but those aren't them.

Posted by: SplatticusFinch at March 19, 2017 06:35 AM (xCOv0)

442 The eighty foot hairy pussy monster from Bangkok...had all the
theme and hair I could handle.I PLOT'zed

Posted by: saf at March 19, 2017 07:01 AM (+zN6H)

443 "Can you think of a movie where the characterization, plot, and style just blow chunks but the theme makes it a great movie?"

You're not familiar with teen porn

Posted by: Carlos Danger at March 19, 2017 09:55 AM (3NPQF)

444
The reason why Rogue One is a better movie than Force Awakens (besides the fact the FA uses the first movie's plot beat for beat) is that Jyn Erso is a much better character than Rey. In FA, I would argue Finn is the more interesting character.

Rey is likeable, the actress is great, and she's full of can-do attitude about fixing things. However, all of her emotional impact comes from hanging out with Han Solo for half a day. Also, all of her problems are solved with magic. She 'magics' her way out of all of her conflicts.

Jyn, on the other hand, is the only SW lead character that has no magical abilities whatsoever. Not even a smidge, like Leia. She has grown up her whole life hearing that her dad is a pile of dog turds. She develops a hard cynical don't-care attitude against the galaxy because of it, because her memories of how good a man her father was colors her entire personality. When she gets the chance to essentially redeem her father and his legacy, so that everyone can see, like she does, that he isn't a pile of dog turds, she is all in on accomplishing it. And she does it without magic, and no contrived set of skills out of the blue, like piloting spaceships.

Posted by: FoxHunt at March 19, 2017 12:04 PM (8SF+v)

445 You must separate "Style" into Style and Spectacle, because the latter is so huge. And I say that as the guy that re-wrote the entire TV Tropes Wiki into a multi-relational form. I know categories, and (as you admit) you have yours wrong.

Posted by: SciVo at March 19, 2017 10:16 PM (6MhCC)

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