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Fantastic Op-Ed The New York Times Actually Allowed to be Published: "The Immigration Debate We Need "

Trust me, you're gonna want to read the whole thing.

And yes, this is the debate we need to have. Including from Trump himself -- lay out the case reasonably and with all the facts. Don't rely on just emotion to carry you, or else people will assume that emotion is all you have, and so there's no logical, economic case to be made.

A taste. Then read the whole thing:

The Immigration Debate We Need

By GEORGE BORJAS

FEBRUARY 27, 2017

The first month of the Trump administration has already changed the direction of the immigration debate, with many more changes coming soon. So far, executive orders and deportations dominate the discussion. But the fight over how many refugees to admit or how best to vet those refugees obscures what the debate is really about.

Changes in social policy do not make everyone better off, and immigration policy is no exception.>b> I am a refugee, having fled Cuba as a child in 1962. Not only do I have great sympathy for the immigrantís desire to build a better life, I am also living proof that immigration policy can benefit some people enormously.

But I am also an economist, and am very much aware of the many trade-offs involved. Inevitably, immigration does not improve everyoneís well-being. There are winners and losers, and we will need to choose among difficult options. The improved lives of the immigrants come at a price. How much of a price are the American people willing to pay, and exactly who will pay it?

This tension permeates the debate over immigration's effect on the labor market. Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do. But we all know that the price of gas goes down when the supply of oil goes up. The laws of supply and demand do not evaporate when we talk about the price of labor rather than the price of gas. By now, the well-documented abuses of the H-1B program, such as the Disney workers who had to train their foreign-born replacements, should have obliterated the notion that immigration does not harm competing native workers.

Over the past 30 years, a large fraction of immigrants, nearly a third, were high school dropouts, so the incumbent low-skill work force formed the core group of Americans who paid the price for the influx of millions of workers. Their wages fell as much as 6 percent. Those low-skill Americans included many native-born blacks and Hispanics, as well as earlier waves of immigrants.

But somebody's lower wage is somebody else's higher profit. The increase in the profitability of many employers enlarged the economic pie accruing to the entire native population by about $50 billion. So, as proponents of more immigration point out, immigration can increase the aggregate wealth of Americans. But they don't point out the trade-off involved: Workers in jobs sought by immigrants lose out.

They also donít point out that low-skill immigration has a side effect that reduces that $50 billion increase in wealth. The National Academy of Sciences recently estimated the impact of immigration on government budgets. On a year-to-year basis, immigrant families, mostly because of their relatively low incomes and higher frequency of participating in government programs like subsidized health care, are a fiscal burden. A comparison of taxes paid and government spending on these families showed that immigrants created an annual fiscal shortfall of $43 billion to $299 billion.

Even the most conservative estimate of the fiscal shortfall wipes out much of the $50 billion increase in native wealth. Remarkably, the size of the native economic pie did not change much after immigration increased the number of workers by more than 15 percent. But the split of the pie certainly changed, giving far less to workers and much more to employers.

Like I said, read the whole thing. He then get into the former model of immigration -- based on the assumption of assimilation -- being replaced by a new model favoring keeping one's ethnic identity and remaining in ethnic enclaves.

He finished by noting this debate over real problems, real trade-offs, and actual economic pain experienced by the working class is chiefly answered by attacks of immigration skeptics as "racist."

He concludes:

But those accusations of racism reflect their effort to avoid a serious discussion of the trade-offs. The coming debate would be far more honest and politically transparent if we demanded a simple answer from those who disagree with "America First" proposals: Who are you rooting for?

Yes, this is precisely the debate we should be having, but can't, because the Democrat-Media Party blows up any discussion of these issues with cries of "Racism," and the President, while generally familiar with the contours of the argument, does not make these points with as much numerical and logical detail as he should.

Posted by: Ace at 01:34 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 You can't have it.

Posted by: Magic Racist Bus at March 03, 2017 01:26 PM (IqV8l)

2 nd

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:28 PM (vur0q)

3 debates are racist.

Posted by: mallfly of the Jungle at March 03, 2017 01:28 PM (b7fwp)

4 what we need are conversations, if you know what I mean.

Posted by: mallfly of the Jungle at March 03, 2017 01:29 PM (b7fwp)

5 and maybe more pictures of Lena Dunham in a bikini, so immigrants know what they can look forward to.

Posted by: mallfly of the Jungle at March 03, 2017 01:30 PM (b7fwp)

6 The laws of supply and demand do not evaporate when we talk about the price of labor rather than the price of gas.

=====================

"Silly fool. We all know that gas prices would NEVER go down with increased supply. Let me mangle the idea of price elasticity to explain why..."
-Liberals, 2002

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:30 PM (vur0q)

7
Like I said, read the whole thing.

You can't just give us the cliffs, bro?

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:30 PM (anu2o)

8 I don't want a horde of third worlders invading my country. I'm not a racist, I'm an unapologetic culturist.

Posted by: kathysaysso at March 03, 2017 01:31 PM (43OZ6)

9 On a year-to-year basis, immigrant families, mostly because of their relatively low incomes and higher frequency of participating in government programs like subsidized health care, are a fiscal burden. A comparison of taxes paid and government spending on these families showed that immigrants created an annual fiscal shortfall of $43 billion to $299 billion.

======================

I've been told by my betters that this is an out and out lie.

Immigrants never EVER take out benefits. Not even in California where the state government made sure that illegal immigrants were eligible for the ACA.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:31 PM (vur0q)

10 Holy shit, someone at the NYT reads my blog?!

I wrote this months ago: http://cutjibnewsletter.com/2016/09/lets-talk-immigration/

And Just last week I noted CA relies on illegal immigration to survive: http://cutjibnewsletter.com/2017/02/they-hypocrisy-of-california/

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:31 PM (dzmBR)

11 the President does not need to be a policy wonk. If we wanted a policy wonk Americans would have done what I recommended in 1992 and elected Perot.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 03, 2017 01:32 PM (/zEQr)

12
*Looks out window to see if pigs are flying*

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 03, 2017 01:32 PM (kTF2Z)

13 re 9: umpossible. Obama said so.

Posted by: mallfly of the Jungle at March 03, 2017 01:32 PM (b7fwp)

14 But those accusations of racism reflect their effort to avoid a serious discussion of the trade-offs. The coming debate would be far more honest and politically transparent if we demanded a simple answer from those who disagree with "America First" proposals: Who are you rooting for?

======================

"Well, this Cuban man who fled from another country obviously is racist and has no sense of the immigrant experience."
-Very smart college student who's struggling with their core classes but acing that gender studies course

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:32 PM (vur0q)

15 Borjas has pointed out before how the globalist open-borders people play games with the numbers.

One way is when a foreign woman immigrates to the US and has children, the welfare she now qualifies for is not counted as a cost of immigration, because her US-born children are considered citizens. Therefore her eligibility for welfare on account of her children is placed under the category Native-Born US Citizen Welfare Costs" as distinguished from "Immigrant Welfare Costs to make it look like immigrant costs are lower and US citizen costs are higher in comparing welfare usage by immigrants vs citizens.

Posted by: Scalia's Ghost at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (3OAG2)

16 Good article. We just received our school budget for next year which shot up again. Buried at the bottom of the explanation for the increase was a huge uptick in money for ESL classes in the public school. Yet, you are branded a racist if you even politely point out that it is unsustainable.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (OD2ni)

17 The coming debate would be far more honest and politically transparent if we demanded a simple answer from those who disagree with "America First" proposals: Who are you rooting for?

-
And who's in your wallet?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (Nwg0u)

18 I was told there would be no reading.

Posted by: Weasel at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (C8aCP)

19 Yes, this is precisely the debate we should be having, but can't, because the Democrat-Media Party blows up any discussion of these issues with cries of "Racism," and the President, while generally familiar with the contours of the argument, does not make these points with as much numerical and logical detail as he should.

Posted by: Ace at 01:34 PM

========================

Well, it's a good thing that Jeff Sessions is ultimately responsible for law enforcement now. I mean, he's the guy who was on the forefront of making this exact case in the Senate for years.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (vur0q)

20 what should Trump do instead? curious here. he could link to Borjas' article I guess, as a starting point

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (/zEQr)

21 "A comparison of taxes paid and government spending on these families showed that immigrants created an annual fiscal shortfall of $43 billion to $299 billion."

43 to 229 That's a wide range, no?

At least the article does some math to show that Americans as a whole are big net losers from Illegal Immigration.

I've pointed out before that one of the constituencies for Illegal Immigration are public sector unions, especially teachers, and lower-wage health care workers. Which is why the likes of the SEIU are so tight with the D Inner Party

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (SIY7D)

22 The left can't have this debate because all their eggs are in the group identity basket. They have entirely alienated everybody else.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (RD7QR)

23 11 the President does not need to be a policy wonk. If we wanted a policy wonk Americans would have done what I recommended in 1992 and elected Perot.
Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at March 03, 2017 01:32 PM (/zEQr)

====================

Presidents are managers.

They need to know how to hire people who can do things, not necessarily know how to do the things themselves.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (vur0q)

24 Sweden, here we come.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (IqV8l)

25 For economic reasons, for safety & security reasons, and for preserving our unique American culture, such as it still is.

Posted by: josephistan at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (7HtZB)

26 The truly stunning thing here is that the author implies, and the NYT publishes, the idea that accusations of racism do not necessarily trump everything else.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 03, 2017 01:35 PM (Nwg0u)

27 And who's in your wallet?
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks. Now worse than Hitler! at March 03, 2017 01:33 PM (Nwg0u)

EEEVERRRYOONNNEE!!!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 03, 2017 01:35 PM (0mRoj)

28 By GEORGE BORJAS


Mr. Borjas, to his massive credit, has been sounding this alarm for years.

But it won't matter to the Left Treason Lobby, nor to the GOPee greedheads who just cynically want the cheaper gardeners and maids.

I first saw this here in CA in 1994, when then Governor Pete Wilson, who was actually otherwise a RINO in many respects, clearly saw what was coming. He was disowned by national GOPee putzes like Jack Kemp and Bob Dole.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (ujg0T)

29 Why did the NYT publish this? This goes against everything they have printed about immigration since 2015 when the election started.

Something is not right in the Universe.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (le7jz)

30 22 The left can't have this debate because all their eggs are in the group identity basket. They have entirely alienated everybody else.
Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 03, 2017 01:34 PM (RD7QR)

===================

They'll need at least one more solid drubbing before they begin to recenter on another issue.

Please, let 2018 lead to a supermajority of Republicans in the Senate. Maybe then, Democrats will begin to cast off the identity politics.

It's probably just as likely to make it worse, though. Most of their moderating voices (who don't moderate very much) will be gone from elected federal government positions, leaving the children of the activist left.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (vur0q)

31 I'm not sure having an economics based discussion is going to be all that useful with a group that doesn't understand economics any better than they understand science. It's really pretty basic stuff but it would go right over the heads of those who think the most important thing in the world is allowing men to use bathrooms with 12 year old girls.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (/tuJf)

32 Borjas has pointed out before how the globalist open-borders people play games with the numbers.
---

There's a video called "Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs."

Explains it all very simply.

There is only so much we can do. And even bankrupt our nation, and turn it into a third world country where everyone lives in abject poverty, there will still be massive numbers of people living in poverty.

Posted by: shibumi at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (J5mC3)

33 Mi amigo Timoteo Kaine dice que no es posible!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (Ad0Tk)

34 Let us also have a debate about legal and illegal immigration.

Let's talk about that one. A lot.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (B+qrE)

35
And who's in your wallet?

William Devane?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (IqV8l)

36 I smell a rat.
Is this a case of the NYT trying to appear fair and balanced?

Posted by: Diogenes at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (0tfLf)

37
George Borjas?

More like George Boris.
This guy sounds like he has "ties" to Russia.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (anu2o)

38 He then get into the former model of immigration -- based on the assumption of assimilation -- being replaced by a new model favoring keeping one's ethnic identity and remaining in ethnic enclaves.

Immigrants always tended to remain in ethnic enclaves, for pretty much the whole history of this nation. Chinatown, Little Italy, etc...

The difference was that even as those ethnic enclaves retained good parts of their native cultures they still wanted to assimilate, as a whole, as much as possible and to make sure that their children were true Americans. Often they stopped speaking their native languages at home. They appreciated the idea of being "American" and the initial immigrants, themselves, understood full well that they were not really "Americans" but that their kids would be.

The difference now is that people think that getting a piece of paper declaring one a citizen of this nation automatically makes them actual "Americans", culturally. That's a joke, of course. My Great-Grandparents were embarrassed about their accents. They knew that that the presence of such accents indicated that they were not really American, though they loved the idea of America. But their kids were real Americans.

And this is about IMMIGRATION, not illegal aliens, who have no right to be here and should be deported the second they are made known to the federal government.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (zc3Db)

39 George Rojas is a racist!

Posted by: CNN at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (FqgrG)

40
Anyone watch Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum's fake town hall on CNN?

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (anu2o)

41 Yes, a fiscal burden. It is a mystery to me that people who will admit that illegal aliens will use a made up or stolen SS number to get work believe that they would never, ever use that number to fraudulently obtain benefits. Or register to vote. Or vote. For democrats.

Posted by: huerfano at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (jkkMG)

42
Why did the NYT publish this?

They got hacked!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (IqV8l)

43 The whole point is missed in this. No one wants to stop immigration. We want to stop the invasion of third-worlders from coming across our borders illegally.

You know. Fucking lawbreakers the second they step foot in
our country without permission.

Let them eat shit.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (Fmupd)

44 I'm not sure who is going to be more angry about this op-ed, the Dem-dems or the GOPe.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (4YGWz)

45 Why did the NYT publish this? This goes against everything they have printed about immigration since 2015 when the election started.

Something is not right in the Universe.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (le7jz)



The Russians hacked the NY Times

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (493sH)

46 29 Why did the NYT publish this? This goes against everything they have printed about immigration since 2015 when the election started.

Something is not right in the Universe.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 03, 2017 01:36 PM (le7jz)
-------------------
Cover.
They can point to this one op-ed out of thousands and claim they play it down the middle.

Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (adsVM)

47 Not for nothing, I never see a Latino begging on the streets of Houston.

I'm not sure what that would indicate since there are plenty of beggars in South America.

Posted by: MAC-SOG at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (QPdNE)

48 You want to have a debate based on reason and logic. That you can have so long as all of the participants are willing to play that way. One side is not.

Since all of the arguments from the Left are emotion based appeals, using reason and logic is akin to fighting submarines with cavalry. You will lose, like the right has lost everytime it has tried to counter the Left with reason and logic.

Me, right now I want to win, and to win is to fight using the correct weapons. Since that happens to be appeals to emotions, that is the way the other side has decided the fight is to waged, then that is how we need to fight. Beat the Left at the emotional appeal and they will be begging to go back to reason and logic - and that is the only way they will.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Purchase A Plethora of Pungent Pithy Phrases at the Outrage Outlet! at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (hLRSq)

49 Good article and good discussion. I expect the author will be fired soon.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (loyrT)

50
I've had success talking to lefties by having the labor participation rate chart in front of me, going back to 1950. I point to about 1997 and say, 'at this point in time the government spent as much money as it took in in taxes'. It took this percentage of Americans working for that to happen. Then point to the fact that we are now on the other side of the mountain, back to 1979 labor participation rate.

I then point back to 1997, and tell them that every government program is dependent on this level of employment. Every social welfare program. Dependent.

The silence is deafening.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (ZFUt7)

51 "Why did the NYT publish this? "


They got confused. They thought it was written by Jorge Ramos.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:40 PM (OD2ni)

52 Why did the NYT publish this?

They got hacked!




F'n Russians!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 01:41 PM (x/Nq/)

53 The Times does include some articles like this but it hardly comes out balanced.

e.g.,During the ObamaCare debate they published a piece by a former CBO director who called out the bullshit in the CBO saying that ObamaCare would reduce the deficit -- published an hour before the vote went through.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 03, 2017 01:41 PM (SIY7D)

54 Borjas is a very highly regarded economist (Harvard, iirc) who specializes in immigration and migration and just published a book on teh subject last year.

An immigrant, himself, legal and high-economic-value.

Posted by: mhj at March 03, 2017 01:41 PM (oqESW)

55 I'm thinking Trump needs to consider hiring George, or at least contract him as a consultant.

Posted by: Fritz at March 03, 2017 01:41 PM (YAPkP)

56 Not for nothing, I never see a Latino begging on the streets of Houston.

I'm not sure what that would indicate since there are plenty of beggars in South America.





We have ebt cards that work?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (x/Nq/)

57 pro illegal supporters know they are wrong. You only have to provide a micro analogy and they end the conversation.

The one I use today involves my health club that is surrounded by a fence with a guard shed. One loud mouth lady was spouting off about Trump and I asked her if the members at the $10 a month Fitness Connection were able to sneak into our club should they be able to stay?



Posted by: Ghost girl at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (fcqmr)

58 And nobody EVER mentions the fact that the US lets in more LEGAL immigrants than all the other western nations combined. And since the Kennedy fiasco in the 60s 95% of those are from third world shitholes.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (mpXpK)

59
Borjas is a very highly regarded economist (Harvard, iirc)...[/i


How much can he bench?

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (anu2o)

60 on the assumption of assimilation
with cries of "Racism,"

DeAssimilation and Tribalism keep us in our phoney-baloney jobs.
At the rate we're going blacks in England will have more in common with American whites than American blacks.

Posted by: Your ProgTarded Superiors and their GOPe shareholder buddies at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (8J/Te)

61 Why did the NYT publish this?

------

TLDR

Posted by: LIVs at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (8XRCm)

62 "53 The Times does include some articles like this but it hardly comes out balanced."


As of today, they are more balanced on immigration than the Wall Street Journal.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (OD2ni)

63
Sonofa....

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (anu2o)

64 George Rojas is a racist!

Posted by: CNN at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (FqgrG)



A white Hispanic of the worst sort

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (493sH)

65 If you're here illegally, leave. If you're here illegally and working, you're a criminal. If you are deported you can never become a citizen or cross our border legally again. If you are deported and decide to abandon your citizen children in our country, they should be part of a new no-cost adoption program and you lose all rights to visit them.

Although I would consider allowing you to pay to have them bussed home. It breaks my heart to think of you separating your family like that, after all.

Posted by: Moron Robbie at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (/f1mm)

66 "Controversial White Hispanic nativist and radical economist George Borjas, whose theories have long enjoyed currency among alt-right activists...."

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (lutOX)

67 >>43
The whole point is missed in this. No one wants to stop immigration. Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (Fmupd)

Zod wants to stop immigration. We have enough people.

Posted by: General Zod at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (Bdeb0)

68 Discussion, my ass. It'll never happen until the damaged children, the poverty pimps, and the fake media are locked in the other room. It's literally impossible to have a conversation with the chronically delusional and insane left.

Posted by: cornbred at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (Opy/4)

69 That op-ed was well put indeed.

I think a great deal of the current horror show that is the state of political discourse in the US today is due to people refusing to set out their actual positions.

Let's move from immigration to, say, gun control. No one believe the Left's we just want common sense gun reform. No one. The Left wants outright ban and confiscation. So when whatever the common sense claim du jour is made, I ignore it because that argument is not being made in good faith.

How about what is the balance between privacy rights and both national security and routine policing? Let's discuss license plate readers. Should police be able to take nigh to unlimited snapshots of all cars out in public? Well, we can't discuss the tension between if you are in public you have no right of privacy with the exponential expansion of the ability to track a single person and maintain that data for years. On the one hand you have me screaming I have a right to be left alone utterly don't you dare strip away the ability to get lost in a crowd and on the other side OMFG YOU WANT COPS TO BE SHOT.

Pick your pet topic and the recognition that life is difficult and complex and full of complex and difficult tradeoffs is all lalalalalala I can't hear you.

I have no solution for this.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (mf5HN)

70 44: every fortune 500 company and all of d.c. greed drives everything in this country. nobody gives a shit how they get theirs. as long as they get it. disney is everything wrong with this country. never watched their shit, never spent any money on their shit. don't have to boycott those evil, twisted fucks. my son has hated them since he was in eigth grade.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (KP5rU)

71 Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 01:37 PM (zc3Db

It's arguable that the enclaves were less isolated then than now though.

We've got a Little Italy (the Hill) here and an Little Bosnia. Separated in time by probably more than 150 years.
Both groups assimilated fairly well. While they lived in close knit neighborhoods, they had jobs outside of those neighborhoods, plus has to go to stores outside of them, send their kids to schools outside of them etc.

There's a growing "Little Mexico" too, but assimilation is different to say the least. Full grocery stores are springing up. Those who don't get jobs or open restaurants in the immediate area tend to work in industries where language isn't a huge barrier (construction.)

The result is a hit or miss assimilation, with some even second generation people not having great mastery of English.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (dzmBR)

72 I had one of our executives boiling mad about this very topic yesterday after work.

Guy flat out said he wanted to replace Americans with cheaper Hispanic labor whenever possible ... and would not tolerate anything other than peaceful acceptance of said policy by the displaced masses.

I advised him to go long on gun and ammo futures. He looked at me like I'd sprouted a second head.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (1ZlS3)

73 62 "53 The Times does include some articles like this but it hardly comes out balanced."


As of today, they are more balanced on immigration than the Wall Street Journal.
Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:42 PM (OD2ni)
===

If you haven't already, you should check out how PewDiePie responded to the WSJ hitpiece against him.

Posted by: Independent George at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (BDZWU)

74 How long before the Left decries this as #FakeNews, and that the NYT is already a known #FN purveyor?

Because they will use any toll, even a rightie one, to protect The Narrative.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (xpfRn)

75 oh how i wish ace could do with a podcast with this guy.

Posted by: concrete girl at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (4j3+m)

76
They're not "immigrants," tho.

They're not here to become Americans.

They're foreign nomad peasant looking to freeload.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (anu2o)

77 Reasoned debate = talking like a fag

Reality is that political discourse has sunk to a food fight among retards. And if that is the playing field, I would rather have MasterBlaster on our side than William F Buckley. Our tards will beat their tards

Posted by: wooga at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (3I7wr)

78 47 Not for nothing, I never see a Latino begging on the streets of Houston.

I'm not sure what that would indicate since there are plenty of beggars in South America.
Posted by: MAC-SOG at March 03, 2017 01:39 PM (QPdNE)

Causes lot of contact with law enforcement . Illegals may want to avoid that even in a sanctuary environment.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (fcqmr)

79 Zod wants to stop immigration. We have enough people.





With 1/3 of the workforce out of work, the country is full.
Moose out front should have told you.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 01:45 PM (x/Nq/)

80 I figure there's a NYT editor that let this 'un slip through that will soon be in need of new employment opportunities.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 01:45 PM (xpfRn)

81 How did this even get published? Shocking.

It would be nice if words and logical arguments could carry the day in our arguments over immigration.

I am afraid, though, that it will always be Trumpitler Stomping on the Human Face Forever While Defending His Berlin Wall.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 03, 2017 01:45 PM (BZY6c)

82 67 >>43
The whole point is missed in this. No one wants to stop immigration. Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 01:38 PM (Fmupd)



I actually do. I can think of at least four legal immigrant categories abused.
--Refugees
--"Diversity Lottery" (this one should not even exist.
--H1's
--Family reunification

After having the proverbial floodgates open since 1965, it may be time to go back to the restrictive policies of 1921 to 1965.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:45 PM (ujg0T)

83 Principle #1. Illegal Aliens have no right to be here.

There shouldn't be an issue over this, but there is.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (SIY7D)

84 Damn right.

In many ways I consider myself to be a liberal. Not in the political sense of the word (and the abuse of the word), but in the sense that I have a keen sense of right and wrong, based on things other than what you can afford, and how much power you have.

Many of us have been essentially silenced, because a perspective of wanting immigrants to enjoy the same benefits native born Americans do, cannot be discussed outside the context of the left/right, you see it my way or I call you names debate.

Let's have this dialogue. Please, and thank you.

Posted by: BurtTC at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (TOk1P)

85
If you're here illegally, leave. If you're here illegally and working,
you're a criminal. If you are deported you can never become a citizen or
cross our border legally again. If you are deported and decide to
abandon your citizen children in our country, they should be part of a
new no-cost adoption program and you lose all rights to visit them.



Although I would consider allowing you to pay to have them bussed
home. It breaks my heart to think of you separating your family like
that, after all.

Posted by: Moron Robbie at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM



Throw in a bit about your employer being fined and possibly jailed. I love that idea.

Posted by: huerfano at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (jkkMG)

86 >>65
If you're here illegally, leave. If you're here illegally and working,
you're a criminal. If you are deported you can never become a citizen or
cross our border legally again. If you are deported and decide to
abandon your citizen children in our country, they should be part of a
new no-cost adoption program and you lose all rights to visit them.
Posted by: Moron Robbie at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (/f1mm)

And if none of this applies to you, you play an important civic role by being "repurposed" via the Soylent Corporation.

Posted by: General Zod at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (Bdeb0)

87 ObamaCare would reduce the deficit

Still trails

"It was a video..."

"Jeff Sessions is a Russian mole."

and

"Saved or created"

in the Bullshit rankings.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (B+qrE)

88 Th Russians hacked the NYT?

Posted by: USNtakim at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (hMqvx)

89 Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (mf5HN

Well it would help if we would at least acknowledge fundamental truths.

As I pointed out, no one wants to acknowledge Friedman's key realization that illegal immigration is only beneficial to the extent that it's illegal. And that as we keep trying to change the laws of economics we become more and more dependent on that illegal labor to cover for the mistakes of say...a $15/hr minimum wage.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (dzmBR)

90 A taste. Then read the whole thing:

---

I still have 4 1/2 tons of pron mags to read first. I'll get to it tomorrow

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (h/uSM)

91 Before the 1965 immigration overhaul that put our country on it's current path that will render the white population a minority, our immigration was centered around allowing immigration from first world countries.

We now admit virtually nobody from first world countries.

90pct of immigrants come from either South America, Mexico, Africa, and Asia.

You couple this with virtually no affirmative assimilation and you have a disaster on our hands.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (Gh/jd)

92 I'd love to read the entire article, but I refuse to give my email address out to any group I dont trust. All it takes is one time of having your network constantly attacked, emails hacked, and computers destroyed. And that one time was almost 3.years ago.

Posted by: Widespread Pepe at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (jJHMW)

93
Throw in a bit about your employer being fined and possibly jailed. I love that idea.


No "possibly" about it -- jail the violating employers, too. Sometimes a 2x4 across the head is necessary to get their attention.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (v1g1+)

94 With 1/3 of the workforce out of work, the country is full.
Moose out front should have told you.

---

teach the Moose Spanish

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (h/uSM)

95 They're not "immigrants," tho.

They're not here to become Americans.
-----

This.

If want to come here legally, enbrace American exceptionalism and culture and want to become one of us.... Welcome Aboard.

If you want to come here and despise Amnerican culture, want to wall yourself off culturally, religiously and linguistically and want US to bend to your 6th Century Psuedo Religeous Laws......

.....GTFO.

Posted by: fixerupper at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (8XRCm)

96 Excellent op-ed!!!


Re: Increased profits *but* lower wages:

The reason why they don't mention it is because the people who want open borders (that lower wages) are the same ones who are also agitating doe $15/minim wage.

They know these two things are incompatible, like so many of the things they agitate for. So we also need to talk about what the Lefty/Commie open borders crowd is really trying to do. It's not about corporate profits, it's about destroying capitalism

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (NOIQH)

97
Why should we even debate this??

We "debate" every stupid cockamamie thing the Left cooks up.

We "debate" the weather. We're now even "debating" gender. These are stupid debates designed to waste our time and divide us.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (anu2o)

98 The report he's referring to:

https://www.nap.edu/download/23550#

Posted by: JEM at March 03, 2017 01:49 PM (TppKb)

99 68 Discussion, my ass. It'll never happen until the damaged children, the poverty pimps, and the fake media are locked in the other room. It's literally impossible to have a conversation with the chronically delusional and insane left.
Posted by: cornbred at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (Opy/4)



I actually hold out a little bit of hope that some African Americans are starting to realize that they are getting shoved aside and "Brown Is The New Black", and they will get short shrift in public education, public schooling, and public services.

Even the hoodrat elements are noticing that the new breed of imported hoodrats does not like them at all, and in fact even hates them far more than the (largely imaginary) Whitey boogeyman ever did.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:49 PM (ujg0T)

100 One question:
After decades of incredible (it's a real word, and it is not a compliment) content, why do I trust the NYT now?

Posted by: navybrat at March 03, 2017 01:49 PM (w7KSn)

101 31 I'm not sure having an economics based discussion is going to be all
that useful with a group that doesn't understand economics any better
than they understand science.


Jack, Pelosi understands economics and science just as well as she does The Word.

Now if you're talking graft and corruption, NOW you're in her and their wheelhouse.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 01:49 PM (xpfRn)

102 Before the 1965 immigration overhaul

Coupled with the simultaneous expansion of the welfare state.

And here we are.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:50 PM (B+qrE)

103 So we also need to talk about what the Lefty/Commie open borders crowd is really trying to do. It's not about corporate profits, it's about destroying capitalism

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (NOIQH)



And the country. They are driven by their raging hatred of the country. At least the way it used to be

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 01:50 PM (493sH)

104 Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:48 PM (NOIQH

I don't think they really do realize it. check out my post. It's full of cognitive dissonance about all of this.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (dzmBR)

105 99 68 Discussion, my ass. It'll never happen until the damaged children, the poverty pimps, and the fake media are locked in the other room. It's literally impossible to have a conversation with the chronically delusional and insane left.
Posted by: cornbred at March 03, 2017 01:43 PM (Opy/4)
===

We want to have a reasonable discussion you racist, xenophobic homophobes!

Posted by: Cenk "Buffalo" Uygur at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (BDZWU)

106
btw, the stupid phrase "we're a country of immigrants" is stupid and only said by stupid people who think you're stupid, too.

It's like saying We're A Country Of Zygotes.

Well, yes, I guess we are.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (anu2o)

107 The result is a hit or miss assimilation, with some even second generation people not having great mastery of English.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (dzmBR)


That's the big difference - and it's huge.

Most of the older immigrant communities (real immigrants we're talking about) tended to lose their native language in most part with the second generation (a lot of kids could understand but not speak it) and almost entirely by the third generation. This was part of a conscious push by the initial immigrants to make sure that their kids were actually American. The difference now is that:

1) illegals aren't immigrants

2) legal immigrants are often encouraged to not become American, and many come here not wanting to ever become American, anyway.

Yeah ... it's time to put the brakes on legal immigration for a good while. Strict quotas from places that are closer to American culture, very little, at all, from other parts. Case by case examinations for people who actually have important skills that we can benefit from.

And no more of this multi-lingual bullshit in the schools. If people speak other languages ... good for them, but all schooling and business and government operation in America take place in English. End of story.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (zc3Db)

108 Illegal aliens are criminals. They all need to be arrested and deported, period, end of story.

Posted by: Strobe at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (gbWkA)

109 M-13 should be the only evidence needed that illegal immigration is a grave threat to our Country.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (fcqmr)

110 72 I had one of our executives boiling mad about this very topic yesterday after work.

Guy flat out said he wanted to replace Americans with cheaper Hispanic labor whenever possible ... and would not tolerate anything other than peaceful acceptance of said policy by the displaced masses.

I advised him to go long on gun and ammo futures. He looked at me like I'd sprouted a second head.
Posted by: ScoggDog at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (1ZlS3)



I deal with people like this who think they can remain unaffected in their gated enclaves. They SO deserve a mugging, or worse, by the underclass they are so eager to import.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (ujg0T)

111 They're not "immigrants," tho.
They're not here to become Americans.
They're foreign nomad peasant looking to freeload.
Posted by: Soothsayer 45


There's a certain sort of elitism on the left that naturally assumes they want to become citizens and live here forever.

I can't understand that. Facts not in evidence.

I want to move to Belize and collect every benefit possible for the next 20 years. But I have every intention of returning 'home' to die. The only reason I'd become a citizen of that country would be if it was in my financial interests.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (ZFUt7)

112 One thing that editorial mentions troubles me:

"Regardless of the allocation, employers should not walk away with all the gains, and workers should not suffer all the losses. We need to ensure a more equitable sharing of the gains and losses among the American people."

Equitable sharing? I would like clarification here.

Posted by: Beau Bidens Freebasing and boozing Babe Banging Brother at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (jxbfJ)

113 They know these two things are incompatible, like so many of the things they agitate for.

They don't care. For them it's not about rational policy making, it's about power.

Lie to get the power. Lie to keep the power. Lie even more when power is lost.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (B+qrE)

114 >>And the country. They are driven by their raging hatred of the country. At least the way it used to be


Exactly.

This is not about caring for immigrants any more than the SSM and transgender bathroom wars are about caring for LGBTQ people.

Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (NOIQH)

115 108; yes. pretty damn simple, actually.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (KP5rU)

116 I had one of our executives boiling mad about this very topic yesterday after work.

Guy flat out said he wanted to replace Americans with cheaper Hispanic labor whenever possible ... and would not tolerate anything other than peaceful acceptance of said policy by the displaced masses.

I advised him to go long on gun and ammo futures. He looked at me like I'd sprouted a second head.

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 03, 2017 01:44 PM (1ZlS3)




Fine. Let's replace him first

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (493sH)

117 And no more of this multi-lingual bullshit in the schools. If people speak other languages ... good for them, but all schooling and business and government operation in America take place in English. End of story.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (zc3Db


I'm torn on this part, if only because it's easier to learn a different language when you're young and learning a second language does help in the job market.

Having said that, it's not carved out in that way now. (Otherwise it'd be Chinese or Japanese, not Spanish.)

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (dzmBR)

118 "The whole point is missed in this. No one wants to stop immigration."


Chris Matthews of all people said that on election night in trying to explain Trump's victory to Maddow. He said Dems want their votes and Repubs want the cheap labor for their donors so nobody does anything which gave an opening to Trump.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (OD2ni)

119
That's what the Left is really good at -- they invent these stupid phrases that are mostly true and difficult to argue with that are designed to SHUT DOWN the complainers.

When someone says to you We're a nation of immigrants and puts that QED Cocksucker Face on, tell them to shut the fark up.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:54 PM (anu2o)

120 That this got published in the New York Times is further evidence that the computer simulation we're living in has gone haywire.

Posted by: josephistan at March 03, 2017 01:54 PM (7HtZB)

121 Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (ujg0T)

Like I said, they would not tolerate a non resident behind their gated community much less providing free food and money to them,

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (fcqmr)

122
We're a nation of molecules.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (anu2o)

123 Our immigration policy prior to 1965 focused on Europe and Eastern Europe and individuals who could contribute. If a group stayed together it wasn't a big deal because they weren't hostile to this country nor were their culture 180* different than what was here. Now we have an entire political class who insists that we import and acquiesce to a foreign culture that is completely opposed to our values and is at war with it.

Posted by: Jen the original at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (K7A0z)

124 This is O/T but interesting. It's an article about pizza gate, but drifts into Shep Smith.

Link in nic

Posted by: Chilling the most at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (Cl52v)

125 108; they should be chipped first, easier to find if they come back. damn i'll probably go to hell for that one.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (KP5rU)

126 >>Chris Matthews of all people said that on election night in trying to explain Trump's victory to Maddow. He said Dems want their votes and Repubs want the cheap labor for their donors so nobody does anything which gave an opening to Trump.

Surprisingly enough, Matthews has been beating this very drum for years. I don't know why he has picked immigration as the one issue not to be a raging loon over but he has had this same position for years.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2017 01:55 PM (/tuJf)

127 A benefit of low skill immigration is an increase the native wealth of the country by $50 billion.

But the burden is $43 to $299 billion, which "reduces that $50 billion increase in wealth".

Without factoring in social factors, or how much of the increase and decrease is from illegal as opposed to legal immigration.

Doesn't sound exactly like a great deal memorandum to take to the higher ups.

'Splain to me like a 6 year old why we can't have this conversation.

Posted by: RM at March 03, 2017 01:56 PM (U3LtS)

128 >>"Regardless of the allocation, employers should
not walk away with all the gains, and workers should not suffer all the
losses. We need to ensure a more equitable sharing of the gains and
losses among the American people."
Equitable sharing? I would like clarification here. Posted by: Beau Bidens Freebasing and boozing Babe Banging Brother at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (jxbfJ)

Concur. Some people read the Melian Dialogue as an irredeemable indictment of power and its exercise (if they've read it at all). Some, ahh, don't.

Posted by: General Zod at March 03, 2017 01:56 PM (Bdeb0)

129 Pelosi thinks that Sessions meeting with the Russian Ambassador is night and day different from AG Lynch meeting with Bill on the tarmac:

"Attorney General Lynch had a social encounter, serendipitous, some might say, that the former president of the United States came by to say hello and they discussed their grandchildren"

So who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes.

Posted by: Ignoramus at March 03, 2017 01:56 PM (SIY7D)

130
But if we send all the mexicans back that means I have to WOOOORRRRRRK!!! Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

Posted by: SJW College Student Studying non-cis-heteronormative bullshit at March 03, 2017 01:56 PM (OZmbA)

131 and maybe more pictures of Lena Dunham in a bikini, so immigrants know what they can look forward to.
Posted by: mallfly


Rather than live in a world like the ME, I'd rather live in a world populated only by Lena Dunham clones, and be one myself.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at March 03, 2017 01:57 PM (vRcUp)

132 https://hiveminer.com/Tags/chile,minefield

Posted by: milo oblong at March 03, 2017 01:57 PM (CKqT5)

133 112 One thing that editorial mentions troubles me:

"Regardless of the allocation, employers should not walk away with all the gains, and workers should not suffer all the losses. We need to ensure a more equitable sharing of the gains and losses among the American people."

Equitable sharing? I would like clarification here.
Posted by: Beau Bidens Freebasing and boozing Babe Banging Brother at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (jxbfJ)

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. ---W.C.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 01:57 PM (fcqmr)

134 We need to ensure a more equitable sharing of the gains and losses among the American people.

This is where the whole thing falls apart.

Making things "fair" kills innovation, economic growth, and personal independence. It's also loaded with moral hazard.

How about we have policies that make the economy roar and then watch in amazement as poverty, education, and assimilation take care of themselves? Yes, lefties, this is how you do it when you're not atomizing everyone into zip code voting pools.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:57 PM (B+qrE)

135 Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???
Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (NOIQH)
***
Because we are living in a white supremacist capitalist patriarchy. Haven't you been paying attention to anything the SJW's and Our Betters have been saying?

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at March 03, 2017 01:57 PM (lutOX)

136 "We want to have a reasonable discussion you racist, xenophobic homophobes!

Posted by: Cenk "Buffalo" Uygur"


I had not even heard of that guy until a couple of months ago, but someone made a bunch of hilarious cutups of his election night meltdown on Youtube. Comedy gold. Smugness turned to rage in a few short hours.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (OD2ni)

137
Guy flat out said he wanted to replace Americans with cheaper Hispanic labor whenever possible ... and would not tolerate anything other than peaceful acceptance of said policy by the displaced masses.

The Brain Center at Whipple's

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0734633/

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (IqV8l)

138 108 Illegal aliens are criminals. They all need to be arrested and deported, period, end of story.
Posted by: Strobe at March 03, 2017 01:51 PM (gbWkA)


-----------------


Yup. Fuck discussing this. Get the lawbreaking feces out of our country first, THEN we can have a discussion on immigration.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (Fmupd)

139 The debate we need to be having is that massively increased immigration, both illegal and legal, is nothing less than a deliberate vote-buying scheme by the Democratic party, with the goal of installing themselves permanently in power.

They don't like the voting preferences of America's current citizens, so they propose to dissolve the electorate and import a new one.

Posted by: cool breeze at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (StZrq)

140
>>pictures of Lena Dunham in a bikini, so immigrants know what they can look forward to.
Posted by: mallfly


me likeee nalgas grandotas!!

Posted by: Jose at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (OZmbA)

141 "Attorney General Lynch had a social encounter, serendipitous, some might say, that the former president of the United States came by to say hello and they discussed their grandchildren"

Up next, how sheep's bladders can prevent earthquakes.

Later, heroin: the fun drug.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 01:59 PM (B+qrE)

142 Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???
Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (NOIQH)



Simple. Their cherished Marxist model fell apart. They are looking for new models. I think this model explains it well:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/purpleslog/3455894014

I would add a 5th option to the four listed, however: LGBTQXYZ. Try to destroy the family and thinks some kind of gender bent utopia emerges.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 01:59 PM (ujg0T)

143 I deal with people like this who think they can remain unaffected in their gated enclaves. They SO deserve a mugging, or worse, by the underclass they are so eager to import.

I went into that with him ... which is what sent him over the edge. As I explained - who's going to keep all this law and order you crave when you turn the US into an economic zone rather than a country ? And what's going to keep all these lazy Americans you can't stand from just showing up and taking your shit ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at March 03, 2017 01:59 PM (1ZlS3)

144 I'm torn on this part, if only because it's easier to learn a different language when you're young and learning a second language does help in the job market.

Having said that, it's not carved out in that way now. (Otherwise it'd be Chinese or Japanese, not Spanish.)

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:53 PM (dzmBR)


I'm only speaking about official business in America. That should ALL be in English and English, only. No government documentation should be in any other language. No (public) schooling should be in any other language. Learn English. That's our language. Period.

I think being multi-lingual is great and encourage people to learn other languages ... but the language of America is English and that's the only language that any government documentation, law or anything else should be written in. And individuals and individual families are responsible for making sure that they and their children can speak English.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (zc3Db)

145 Posted by: Beau Bidens Freebasing and boozing Babe Banging Brother at March 03, 2017 01:52 PM (jxbfJ

In the context of immigration policy I think this is fair. We shouldn't privilege big business at the expense of the rest of the citizenry.

Can't pick winners and losers even here.

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (dzmBR)

146
The Left is always getting us to "debate" our Rights and even rope us into debating reality.

How many times a year does the Left force us into a "debate" on our First and Second Amendment rights?

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (anu2o)

147 "This is not about caring for immigrants any more than the SSM and transgender bathroom wars are about caring for LGBTQ people.

Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???"

THIS is the dirty little secret we aren't allowed to talk about.

Posted by: RM at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (U3LtS)

148 Immigrants always tended to remain in ethnic enclaves, for pretty much the whole history of this nation. Chinatown, Little Italy, etc...

The difference was that even as those ethnic enclaves retained good parts of their native cultures they still wanted to assimilate, as a whole, as much as possible and to make sure that their children were true Americans."

This. My paternal grandparents arrived here as adults and had a very difficult time with English, from what I understand (My grandpa died before I was born; I was small when his wife died but I have a vague memory of being confused by this old lady hugging me and babbling away in Czech.) I'm sure they appreciated having an enclave where they could speak the mother tongue and feel at home, even though they loved this country.

But their children? My dad sat down on the curb and cried after the first day of school because he didn't know English and had no idea what was going on. There was no bilingual ed. But he kept on going back - and within months he was speaking English.

I also think WWII and the post-war period helped with Americanization of the Ellis Island immigrants. A lot of those GIs grew up in ethnic enclaves - after the war, they moved out of the cities and farms into suburbs that might not have had the "color" of Little Italy or Brooklyn but gave them space and land to call their own.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (ZM2xo)

149 There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo".


Nothing like doubling down on dumbassery, I guess.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 03, 2017 02:01 PM (uiwCw)

150 My grandparents on my father's side came to America from Macedonia in 1920 (my mother's side had arrived in America in 1642). My grandparents worked hard and became American citizens. They had to learn English on their own and only spoke their native languages in the home or at church functions. My father was encouraged to "be American" from early on, served in the Navy during the war and received a college education via the G.I. Bill afterwards.
What's is so awful about following the law that these 3rd world shitheads can't understand?

Posted by: Strobe at March 03, 2017 02:01 PM (gbWkA)

151
Posted by: Cenk "Buffalo" Uygur"


I had not even heard of that guy until a couple of months ago, but someone made a bunch of hilarious cutups of his election night meltdown on Youtube. Comedy gold. Smugness turned to rage in a few short hours.

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 01:58 PM (OD2ni)




No need to panic. Here comes Hillary!
(a couple hours later)Fuck you, Democrat Party! Fuck everybody!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 02:01 PM (493sH)

152 What follows is a comprehensive list of things the Democrat Party and their apparitchiks are willing to discuss reasonably and honestly without personal attacks and other distractive measures:


















Posted by: Mega at March 03, 2017 02:02 PM (i77TV)

153 Throw in a bit about your employer being fined and possibly jailed. I love that idea.

Posted by: huerfano at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (jkkMG)

Oops. Forgot. What are some reasonable EPA/OSHA/Gay Bathroom fines? We should make it comparable.

$10K/illegal/day work for y'all?

Posted by: Moron Robbie at March 03, 2017 02:03 PM (/f1mm)

154 Great. Then maybe we can also have 'a discussion' about Islam, and the fact that large numbers of muzzies right here in the US want sharia law to replace US laws.

Radical Islamic terrorism isn't the only problem with Islam. But at least the former is finally being named since PDJT took office.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 02:04 PM (xpfRn)

155 EEEVERRRYOONNNEE!!!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 03, 2017 01:35 PM (0mRoj)

Oblig.:

http://tinyurl.com/Gary-Oldman-EVERYONE

Posted by: Sharkman at March 03, 2017 02:04 PM (zKIA2)

156 149 There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo".


Nothing like doubling down on dumbassery, I guess.

Posted by: Country Singer at March 03, 2017 02:01 PM (uiwCw)

That's okay, but you have to admit being willing to go on foodstamps to show she means it is totes badass.

Posted by: Moron Robbie at March 03, 2017 02:04 PM (/f1mm)

157 5 and maybe more pictures of Lena Dunham in a bikini, so immigrants know what they can look forward to.

Posted by: mallfly of the Jungle at March 03, 2017 01:30 PM (b7fwp)

Where's all the food?
Where's the white women at?

Posted by: The Culturally Equivalent Yearning For Social Justice at March 03, 2017 02:05 PM (Mt8T4)

158
After 9/11, the Left had us "debating" what we did to cause it.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:05 PM (anu2o)

159 What's is so awful about following the law that these 3rd world shitheads can't understand?

It's inconvenient.

Posted by: 3rd world shithead at March 03, 2017 02:05 PM (4WhSY)

160 The problem with the Democrat situation:

If you tell someone there's 32 genders, once they stop laughing they're never going to believe another thing you say.

Posted by: JEM at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (TppKb)

161 155 EEEVERRRYOONNNEE!!!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 03, 2017 01:35 PM (0mRoj)

Oblig.:

http://tinyurl.com/Gary-Oldman-EVERYONE
Posted by: Sharkman at March 03, 2017 02:04 PM (zKIA2)

Yes! And there it is!

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (0mRoj)

162 "No need to panic. Here comes Hillary!
(a couple hours later)Fuck you, Democrat Party! Fuck everybody!
Posted by: TheQuietMan"


I see you've seen them as well. I was sad to see the guy from TCM on there. Kind of ruins my enjoyment of TCM. Also, the chick (Ana something) is kind of cute but has crazy eyes

Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (OD2ni)

163 There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo".

...of Ulm.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (B+qrE)

164 I went into that with him ... which is what sent him over the edge. As I explained - who's going to keep all this law and order you crave when you turn the US into an economic zone rather than a country ? And what's going to keep all these lazy Americans you can't stand from just showing up and taking your shit ?
Posted by: ScoggDog at March 03, 2017 01:59 PM (1ZlS3)



The Wall Street Journal article that he read stopped short of raising that question, and he couldn't think ahead.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (ujg0T)

165 Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (h/uSM)

166 160 The problem with the Democrat situation:

If you tell someone there's 32 genders, once they stop laughing they're never going to believe another thing you say.
Posted by: JEM at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (TppKb)

=================

Except for those who really, REALLY belief it. They'll fight to the death for you.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:07 PM (vur0q)

167 >>There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo".


"You're doing it wrong" - Jeff Stone, formerly Jeff Gillooly

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 02:07 PM (NOIQH)

168 Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???
--------

Because they are funded by Islamists. And it turns out hating America a very nice moneymaking opportunity.

Posted by: Mega at March 03, 2017 02:07 PM (i77TV)

169 #149. Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:00 PM (ZM2xo)




This is spot on. They had their neighborhoods, churches/synagogues but they became part of the country. And their kids wanted to be Americans. They joined the Boy and Girl Scouts, played baseball, went into the service or factories when the war start. Not like now where they want to remain cut off and we're supposed to be guilty for everything and subsidize them

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 02:08 PM (493sH)

170 >>165
Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do. Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (h/uSM)

We should debate why those who want more immigration for that reason aren't forced to wear locked ball-gags in public.

Posted by: General Zod at March 03, 2017 02:08 PM (Bdeb0)

171 I think being multi-lingual is great and encourage people to learn other languages ... but the language of America is English and that's the only language that any government documentation, law or anything else should be written in.

Para Espanol, marque numero uno . . . .

Posted by: McCool at March 03, 2017 02:08 PM (sZaoP)

172 My mom used to do those "jobs Americans won't do", which in our farm-based area meant picking asparagus and such. Many women did that to pick up extra money to improve their families' incomes and save for their kids' education.

She did not stop doing it because she didn't want to do those jobs (she never wanted to do those jobs, but she did them anyway). She stopped doing it because the farms stopped hiring them.

The farms stopped hiring them because it became progressively more expensive to hire part-time workers due to the regulatory burden per employee. Most likely it also became more expensive to hire legal employees for the same reason: the paperwork and added regulatory expenses.

The wage difference is important. But even more important is that the administrative state actively discourages hiring more workers and hiring legal workers.

Ask employers what they love doing, and few of the lists you'll get back will include "bullshit paperwork". Even fewer will include "trying not to stand out from the crowd because there's no way we're not breaking some arcane rule we're not even aware of".

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:09 PM (2lndx)

173 Sorry, country's full.

Posted by: Moose Out Front at March 03, 2017 02:09 PM (kTF2Z)

174 156 149 There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo".


Amadou Diallo changed his name to Amadou What The Cops Tell Me To Do.

NSFW! Don't say you weren't warned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajg8QrSsr_A

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:09 PM (ujg0T)

175 I see you've seen them as well. I was sad to see the guy from TCM on there. Kind of ruins my enjoyment of TCM. Also, the chick (Ana something) is kind of cute but has crazy eyes
Posted by: Benji Carver at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (OD2ni)
***
Ana Casparian - she's better than you.

https://youtu.be/yvkRXi00p8c

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine. Glory to Kekistan! No Longer Accepting Harem Applicants at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (lutOX)

176
The Left is currently making us "debate" gender as a "social construct" while making the case that "identifying" as a particular gender is totes not a social construct.


By its very definition, transgenderism is the biggest and worst 'Social Construct' in the history of humanity!

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (anu2o)

177 Well it would help if we would at least acknowledge fundamental truths.

As I pointed out, no one wants to acknowledge Friedman's key realization that illegal immigration is only beneficial to the extent that it's illegal. And that as we keep trying to change the laws of economics we become more and more dependent on that illegal labor to cover for the mistakes of say...a $15/hr minimum wage.
Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at March 03, 2017 01:47 PM (dzmBR)



Exactly. The economic benefits of illegal immigration are per se tied to it being illegal.

I have no problems, none, with, say, giving Tyson a multiple billion dollar fine for serially violations of verification of employment. These claims that you can only run a farm or do construction if you hire illegals are based on other people not having to jump through the hoops you must to hire legally. As we're waiting for those hoops to go away, let's pour encourager les autres to maybe, I don't know, abide by the freaking laws on the books.

Make it so that hiring illegals is a net negative and it will stop.

Posted by: alexthechick - Pentaverate? I have no idea what you mean! at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (mf5HN)

178 Am I the only one who thinks Dana Perino is a bumbling idiot. I cannot stand to listen to her read. Ugh.

Posted by: StacyAW at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (X22I2)

179 Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do.

----

I'm in the top 10% of wage earners in the country. And I've just taken up uber driving on the side. Making ~$40 a day so far working by 2-3 hours. I wonder if anyone I've driven so far makes as much as i do.

Why?

Because it pays well enough to be worth my time to drive around students and housewives and immigrants.


Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (h/uSM)

180 168 Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???
--------

Because they are funded by Islamists. And it turns out hating America a very nice moneymaking opportunity.
Posted by: Mega at March 03, 2017 02:07 PM (i77TV)

Don't forget George Soros, who makes billions from economic depression and destabilization.

Posted by: Insomniac - sin valor at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (0mRoj)

181
O/T... but found this gem sifting trough the intertubes.

http://tinyurl.com/zmjdfyv


Hillarious and safe for work.

Posted by: fixerupper at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (8XRCm)

182 >>Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do.

This doesn't apply to, say, seasonal produce picking jobs, but:

--- A lot of teens used to have part-time jobs after school, and during the summers.

--- Then the Left/academia convinced kids they should be interning for free (supporting Lefty organizations, such as environmental non-profits) in order to beef up their college applications.

--- Now most/all of those part-time/summer jobs are filled with immigrants labor.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (NOIQH)

183
I was sad to see the guy from TCM on there. Kind of ruins my enjoyment of TCM.

He's been whining about the "blacklist" for years.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (IqV8l)

184 http://bit.ly/2mOEyys
------
Mike Pence: We're 'putting the finishing touches' on health plan over weekend - Washington Times

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (y3aQB)

185 172
The wage difference is important. But even more important is that the administrative state actively discourages hiring more workers and hiring legal workers.

Ask employers what they love doing, and few of the lists you'll get back will include "bullshit paperwork". Even fewer will include "trying not to stand out from the crowd because there's no way we're not breaking some arcane rule we're not even aware of".
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:09 PM (2lndx)

=====================

I think more people would try to hire other people to do work if they could just hand them $50 at the end of the day and not worry about anything else.

Now, that's not exactly optimal for the single mom with 3 kids from 4 dads (I was never very good at math), but it'll be just fine for the 15 year old kid who's trying to develop skills for when he breaks free from mom and dad and has to join the workforce full time in a few years.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (LmWWz)

186 I heard Rod Stewart joined ISIS.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (fPOHh)

187 I think being multi-lingual is great and encourage people to learn other languages ... but the language of America is English

The language of aviation? Anywhere on the globe?

English.

Winner decides. Not the loser. We were first.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (ZFUt7)

188 176
The Left is currently making us "debate" gender as a "social construct" while making the case that "identifying" as a particular gender is totes not a social construct.


By its very definition, transgenderism is the biggest and worst 'Social Construct' in the history of humanity!
Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:10 PM (anu2o)

==================

"I never thought of it that way....and I never will because you're a racist."
-Very smart college student who's struggling with their core classes but acing that gender studies course

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (LmWWz)

189 The question of who benefits from immigration, and illegal immigration in particular, was one that was not allowed to be asked.

Trump, short-fingered vulgarian that he is, asked the question anyway. The fact is that the benefits attributed to immigration that most of us see, are emanations of penumbras-- tertiary or quaternary results of this plus this plus this, which means they may or may not manifest, or be watered down, or even reverse before they deliver.

The direct benefits, however, go to Our Ruling Elites. Wages immediately get driven down. Government dependence is immediate and long-term. Expensive labor gets replaced.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (oVJmc)

190 >>This is spot on. They had their neighborhoods,
churches/synagogues but they became part of the country. And their kids
wanted to be Americans. They joined the Boy and Girl Scouts, played
baseball, went into the service or factories when the war start. Not
like now where they want to remain cut off and we're supposed to be
guilty for everything and subsidize them Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 03, 2017 02:08 PM (493sH)

...and they didn't have some "well-intentioned" cocksucking 1970s-era liberal bureaucrat telling them that their enclaves must be dismantled by the State so that they could be forced, via busing, subsidized housing, or other means, to physically integrate into communities that they didn't want to be integrated into (and that didn't want "newcomers" forced upon them by that State).

Posted by: General Zod at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (Bdeb0)

191 Posted by: EVLINC! at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (y3aQB)

And Rand Paul is still not allowed to see it?

Posted by: fenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (fDdVG)

192 Throw in a bit about your employer being fined and possibly jailed. I love that idea.

Posted by: huerfano at March 03, 2017 01:46 PM (jkkMG)

Oops. Forgot. What are some reasonable EPA/OSHA/Gay Bathroom fines? We should make it comparable.

$10K/illegal/day work for y'all?
Posted by: Moron Robbie




Asset forfeiture.
If you will take a guys car for getting a blow job from a hooker, you can easily take CAT Diesel for hiring illegals.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (x/Nq/)

193 We're a nation dying in darkness.

Posted by: Fritz at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (2Mnv1)

194 Scott Adams (dilbert.com) has convincing arguments in his blog posts that logical arguments are a waste of time. Beyond that no one involved is willing to compromise with the co*ksuckers on the other side of the argument.

March 15 Trump will start destroying his opposition and implementing his plan (whatever it is). Ask David Stockman why March 15th. :-)

Posted by: Ok at March 03, 2017 02:13 PM (K2SnJ)

195 How about we have an IQ-based immigration policy ?

A pluralistic democratic republic will not function well if we continue to import people with IQ's less than 85.

Here's the average IQ by country throughout the world
http://tinyurl.com/zg7592a




Posted by: McCool at March 03, 2017 02:13 PM (sZaoP)

196 I think more people would try to hire other people to do work if they could just hand them $50 at the end of the day and not worry about anything else.

Oddly enough, Hollywood gets to do this, or they did in the late eighties/early nineties when I was there. As an extra, you would get your pay at the end of the day and that was that. A good craft service was a nice bonus.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:13 PM (2lndx)

197 168 Now that is the *real* discussion we need to have: why is the Left intent on destroying America, and western civilization???

---

Because Marxism can't be the 'best' otherwise.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (h/uSM)

198 "178 Am I the only one who thinks Dana Perino is a bumbling idiot. I cannot stand to listen to her read. Ugh.
Posted by: StacyAW"


I am going to poop on your lawn.

Posted by: Jasper at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (OD2ni)

199 156 149 There's a report that Rachel Dolezal is changing her name to "Nkechi Amare Diallo

Klaatu Barada Nikto

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (fPOHh)

200 I think the president tries to make the argument...maybe not well enough..but he`s facing down an army of democrat surrogates flooding the media with disinformation....

who are president trump`s surrogates?.....does he even have any?....this is one of the main issues I have with the establishment republican party...I think they want him to fail...

Posted by: rocky mattioli at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (nkfDI)

201 187 I think being multi-lingual is great and encourage people to learn other languages ... but the language of America is English

The language of aviation? Anywhere on the globe?

English.

Winner decides. Not the loser. We were first.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (ZFUt7)

===================

Also scientific journals.

English displaced French as the language of the ruling elite hundreds of years ago. We'll need to see another common language become dominant through economic and possibly military strength before English gets displaced itself.

I'm in the camp that believes that China is, while not a paper tiger, is far from guaranteed to dominate the world in the next century.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (LmWWz)

202 Posted by: fenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:12 PM (fDdVG)
----
Actually I like Rand a lot at one time, now he is just like his dad, Batshit crazy Attention whore

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 03, 2017 02:15 PM (y3aQB)

203 194 Scott Adams (dilbert.com) has convincing arguments in his blog posts that logical arguments are a waste of time. Beyond that no one involved is willing to compromise with the co*ksuckers on the other side of the argument.

March 15 Trump will start destroying his opposition and implementing his plan (whatever it is). Ask David Stockman why March 15th. :-)
Posted by: Ok at March 03, 2017 02:13 PM (K2SnJ)

===================

I've always thought they were of limited use to convincing the person you're arguing with, but of great use to people observing the argument.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:15 PM (LmWWz)

204 186 I heard Rod Stewart joined ISIS.
Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 03, 2017 02:11 PM (fPOHh)

They'll only take him if they think he's sexy.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 03, 2017 02:15 PM (RD7QR)

205 165 Those who want more immigration claim that immigrants do jobs that native-born Americans do not want to do.
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:06 PM (h/uSM)


------------------


When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.

It was fun, for the most part. And put a little walking-around money in our pockets to boot.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 02:16 PM (Fmupd)

206 196 I think more people would try to hire other people to do work if they could just hand them $50 at the end of the day and not worry about anything else.

Oddly enough, Hollywood gets to do this, or they did in the late eighties/early nineties when I was there. As an extra, you would get your pay at the end of the day and that was that. A good craft service was a nice bonus.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:13 PM (2lndx)

===================

Well, that sounds like an industry that needs to be crushed by government because it's hiring practices don't conform with the present day progressive dogma.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:16 PM (LmWWz)

207 195 How about we have an IQ-based immigration policy ?

A pluralistic democratic republic will not function well if we continue to import people with IQ's less than 85.

---

Sell immigrant Visas on Ebay

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (h/uSM)

208 Why did NYT publish this? Possibly to get their MFM and Prog think tank readers to read a set of detailed anti-open borders arguments, so those readers can in turn start building counter-arguments and start cooking-up pro-open border immigration economic statistics.

Posted by: Gref at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (AMIL/)

209 "Jobs Americans Won't Do" is only part of the phrase.

The rest of it is "--At These Wages."

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (oVJmc)

210 Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 02:16 PM (Fmupd)

Like Napoleon Dynamite.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (fcqmr)

211 195---I call bullshit on that "IQ by Country."

Israel came in 12th??

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (7uYFy)

212 "We're a nation dying in darkness."

Nope. USA starting out in a new direction. Trump is a new direction. Democrats and GOPe (rhymes with dope) want to repeat the Soviet Union's demise.

Posted by: Ok at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (K2SnJ)

213 All I'm getting from that article is that I should be hiring a hell of a lot more illegal immigrants.

Posted by: Dr. Mr. Badman at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (cfjq1)

214 Well, that sounds like an industry that needs to be crushed by government because it's hiring practices don't conform with the present day progressive dogma.

I think I've heard that around here before

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (2lndx)

215 205 When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.

It was fun, for the most part. And put a little walking-around money in our pockets to boot.
Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 02:16 PM (Fmupd)

====================

"Child labor is the root of all evil! You were exploited! Tell me where the bad men touched you! I'm here to help you!!!!"
-Childless hippie woman

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (LmWWz)

216 Reading through the comments on the article you can see it's a waste of time to to dialogue this with the left. WAR!

Posted by: Bosk at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (n2K+4)

217 When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.




Mow: Front yard $2. Front & back: $5. Hand edge with manual clippers Additional $2.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (x/Nq/)

218 211 195---I call bullshit on that "IQ by Country."

Israel came in 12th??
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:17 PM (7uYFy)

====================

You know what they say about IQ tests: All they prove is how good you are at taking IQ tests.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (LmWWz)

219 214 Well, that sounds like an industry that needs to be crushed by government because it's hiring practices don't conform with the present day progressive dogma.

I think I've heard that around here before
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (2lndx)

======================

"I said it first."
-Amy Schumer

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:19 PM (LmWWz)

220 I'm in the camp that believes that China is, while not a paper tiger, is far from guaranteed to dominate the world in the next century.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (LmWWz)



Ironically, Red China's demogrpahic policies under Mao will come back to bite them.

Meanwhile, the one time Axis Powers with their "Master Aryan and Yamato races" are not reproducing themselves.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:19 PM (ujg0T)

221 182 This doesn't apply to, say, seasonal produce picking jobs, but:

--- A lot of teens used to have part-time jobs after school, and during the summers.


The fast food industry is almost exclusively staffed by part time teens. The industry has adapted the workplace to enable their low skills to work.

I remember in Iowa in the 70s, the hordes of high schoolers in the fields when it was time to detassel the corn. I saw a recent blurb at Drudge about FL growers worrying about how they will get in this year's crops.

The answer lies at the local high schools.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 02:19 PM (xpfRn)

222 Has the author gotten any death threats yet from tolerant and loving leftists?

Posted by: fenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:20 PM (fDdVG)

223 You know what they say about IQ tests: All they prove is how good you are at taking IQ tests.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (LmWWz)


I think there is *something* to IQ tests, but yeah, a lot of it is as you say.
And that's doubly true of SAT tests....

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:20 PM (7uYFy)

224 221 The fast food industry is almost exclusively staffed by part time teens. The industry has adapted the workplace to enable their low skills to work.

I remember in Iowa in the 70s, the hordes of high schoolers in the fields when it was time to detassel the corn. I saw a recent blurb at Drudge about FL growers worrying about how they will get in this year's crops.

The answer lies at the local high schools.
Posted by: GnuBreed at March 03, 2017 02:19 PM (xpfRn)

===================

Which is why the Fight for $15 thing (or whatever it's called) largely doesn't make sense.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:20 PM (LmWWz)

225
Isn't it telling that when a man like Donald Trump comes along and turns over all the rocks in Washington and in the fake news, we start hearing lamentations of democracy dying in darkness.

It has never been Lighter in my lifetime!
The blinders are off. The sun is shining on all worms crawling out from under the rocks.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (anu2o)

226
I am going to poop on your lawn.
Posted by: Jasper at March 03, 2017 02:14 PM (OD2ni)

After you poop on my lawn, bad boy.

Posted by: Dana Perino, Jasper's Lover at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (X22I2)

227 211 195---I call bullshit on that "IQ by Country."

Israel came in 12th??

---

They test the Palestinians too

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (h/uSM)

228 This op-ed is a very brief summary of his book, We Wanted Workers. I HIGHLY recommend reading it. It's the most sobering look at the economic impact of immigration you'll read...and it shows the lengths to which the academic community has been dishonest with research regarding that economic impact due to academia's personal policy preference towards increased immigration.

Posted by: JM at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (fw+Ko)

229 223
I think there is *something* to IQ tests, but yeah, a lot of it is as you say.
And that's doubly true of SAT tests....
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:20 PM (7uYFy)

================

I think they're indicative of intelligence, but not solid proof.

If someone has an IQ of 130, they're probably smart. If two people have IQs of 130 and 140, the 140 isn't necessarily smarter than the 130.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (LmWWz)

230 Also, many on the left seem to think that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty is some sort of binding document such as the Constituion or a congressional act.

FFS - its a poem written to raise money for the construction of the statue.

"The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus (1849–1887) wrote in 1883 to raise money for the construction of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. In 1903, the poem was engraved on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level.

Last I checked, poems were not in any way legally binding.

Posted by: McCool at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (sZaoP)

231 I read the post. Then dug in and read the Director's Cut. Just have to shake my head and wonder.... Who the F*CK doesn't know this as as as huge...Well, duh!

Honestly. My head is spinning from this week: Russkies lurking, immigration issues getting a sliver of daylight, shadow governments, sedition, treason, coups....AAARRRGGGHHH!

I have a handful of goofy foodie murder mysteries, which I plan to bury myself in this weekend and to Hell with reality.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (ge9Ug)

232 I actually dug ditches when I was a teen.

Good exercise. Not as good as baling hay but pretty good.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (fcqmr)

233 This doesn't apply to, say, seasonal produce picking jobs, but:

--- A lot of teens used to have part-time jobs after school, and during the summers.




St. Louis - mid '70's - Mow yards in spring, summer & fall.
Shovel snow in winter. Had regular customers.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (x/Nq/)

234 Yes, this is precisely the debate we should be having, but can't, because the Democrat-Media Party blows up any discussion of these issues with cries of "Racism," and the President, while generally familiar with the contours of the argument, does not make these points with as much numerical and logical detail as he should.
Posted by Ace at 01:34 PM

++++

I agree with the first part of that statement, but the second part, particularly the word "numerical" reflects your biases as a wonk. Most people are completely bored by that kind of discussion. I know there is nothing you love better than digging into some polls, comparing which demographic answered what question in however way, how that compares to some other demographic, compared to some other nuance in another question, and how that has all changed from the last poll conducted 3 months ago.

You're weird that way. Most people's eyes glaze over when the discussion gets that far into the weeds. Now, I know this isn't polls you are talking about here, but rather economic estimates based various factors. It comes out the same for most people. It's not that they can't follow the logic or even the specific numbers, if they were motivated to really dig into the minutia. But, as it is with polls, it is easy to skew the results with estimates. For most, it's too much work for too little gain to try to figure out the specifics of every possible bias.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (R+30W)

235 I'm in the camp that believes that China is, while not a paper tiger, is far from guaranteed to dominate the world in the next century.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison


We've exported 'our' middle class to their country through our unilateral surrender of American manufacturing. Could be interesting to see the strains on their economy if we succeed in an American rebirth.

I imagine they'll stop building artificial islands and threatening everyone when their standard of living begins to nosedive like ours has since the year 2000.

They have one helluva lot more mouths to feed.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (ZFUt7)

236 230 It's in the constitution!
Ignorant Left Winger

Posted by: steevy at March 03, 2017 02:23 PM (r/0kC)

237 ...and the President, while generally familiar with the contours of the argument, does not make these points with as much numerical and logical detail as he should.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Problem: Trump's emotional immigration argument is the most rational argument from any major political leader in the country, and until that changes don't expect anything beyond that.

Maybe he will, but he is one major leader. On the other side you have not only the entire Democrat leadership, but the GOP one as well.

It is hard for me to be too critical of Trump, until someone steps up and shows me something better and more polished. Free Market...

Posted by: William Eaton at March 03, 2017 02:23 PM (MuTTO)

238 http://bit.ly/2mOLuMf
----
EXPOSED: Dirty Laundry of the Congressional Black Caucus is Being Aired Out and Boy Does it STINK!

Posted by: EVLINC! at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (y3aQB)

239 Not to mention that a strong and secure border would probably help Mexico more than us because the unstabilizing forces (cartels) in Mexico rely on being able to easily transport illicit goods across the border. Without that ability, they wouldn't have the resources to wreak the havoc that they do in Mexico.

Posted by: gm at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (kNCfG)

240 230 Also, many on the left seem to think that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty is some sort of binding document such as the Constituion or a congressional act.

FFS - its a poem written to raise money for the construction of the statue.

"The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus (1849-1887) wrote in 1883 to raise money for the construction of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. In 1903, the poem was engraved on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level.

Last I checked, poems were not in any way legally binding.
Posted by: McCool at March 03, 2017 02:21 PM (sZaoP)

=====================

"Fuck you. Living constitution, bitch. Also, Heller and Citizen's United are the devil."
-Leading Liberal Legal Scholar

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (LmWWz)

241
Which leads me to....

Peeps.

It's that time of year again for marshmallow Peeps.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (anu2o)

242 Which is why the Fight for $15 thing (or whatever it's called) largely doesn't make sense.



When you can't get a simple fucking order correct, one that YOU have reduced to a number, don't expect me to help your cause.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (x/Nq/)

243 Last I checked, poems were not in any way legally binding.
________________________

FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (FqgrG)

244 >>It was fun, for the most part. And put a little walking-around money in our pockets to boot.

In 5th and 6th grade I had a paper route (shared w/my little brother).
In junior high I made money babysitting.
In HS I worked as cashier at at hardware store.

Not only did this teach responsibility, but yes, it provided financial independence, and was a common way for kids to save up for a car, college, and other hobbies/interests. Now college is priced beyond something a part-time job could cover, and kids are taking out ginormous loans that not only cover tuition, but living expenses, including smartphones, vacations, etc. Sad.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (NOIQH)

245 Israel came in 12th??

Ashkenazi Jews have really high IQ's

A Jewish average IQ of 115 is 8 points higher than the generally accepted IQ of their closest rivals—Northeast Asians—and approximately 40% higher than the global average IQ of 79.1 calculated by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and Global Inequity.

'Palestinians' not so much....

Posted by: McCool at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (sZaoP)

246 OT, of course: Armament for AtC against creepy crawlers!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/hzxmxbj

Posted by: hambone at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (g6yUI)

247 I have no problems, none, with, say, giving Tyson a multiple billion
dollar ...
Make it so that hiring illegals is a net negative and it will stop.


Companies just pass thru fines that don't break them. Billions would get gamed down to millions before actually getting paid and might burn a CFO.

Just keep chasing all the illegals off and the hassle of re-hiring will fix it with less lawyering.

Posted by: Your ProgTarded Superiors and their GOPe shareholder buddies at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (8J/Te)

248 235 We've exported 'our' middle class to their country through our unilateral surrender of American manufacturing. Could be interesting to see the strains on their economy if we succeed in an American rebirth.

I imagine they'll stop building artificial islands and threatening everyone when their standard of living begins to nosedive like ours has since the year 2000.

They have one helluva lot more mouths to feed.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (ZFUt7)

=====================

Too bad that Chinese people still only have 10% of the purchasing power of Americans.

China is largely being held up by massive deficit spending. Our trade imbalance with them isn't going to save them.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (LmWWz)

249 Here's the average IQ by country throughout the world
http://tinyurl.com/zg7592a

----

if you correlate that with birth rates...

DOOM!

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (h/uSM)

250 Makes sense. So no. Btw did George have a sister named Lucreczia?

Posted by: Color me pissed 'Adult Coloring Books' at March 03, 2017 02:25 PM (Pby3z)

251 241 They have added so many varieties and flavors it is ridiculous.Got to go with the classic Peeps.

Posted by: steevy at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (r/0kC)

252 Per Polizette--FBI and DOJ Now have names of CIA leakers.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (LbnLf)

253 239 Not to mention that a strong and secure border would probably help Mexico more than us because the unstabilizing forces (cartels) in Mexico rely on being able to easily transport illicit goods across the border. Without that ability, they wouldn't have the resources to wreak the havoc that they do in Mexico.
Posted by: gm at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (kNCfG)

=================

Objection: This presumes that Mexico has any interest in beating the cartels.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (LmWWz)

254 Also, many on the left seem to think that the inscription on the Statue of Liberty is some sort of binding document such as the Constituion or a congressional act.

----

The Constitution is the only thing that isn't binding for the left.

Posted by: buzzsaw90 at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (h/uSM)

255 Marshmallow pepe

Posted by: Dr. Varno at March 03, 2017 02:27 PM (fPOHh)

256 When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.

Yeah, but for kids these days to get into the "best" colleges, they have to have a zillion fancy extra-curricular interests and achievements, so there goes the after-school time. Summer jobs are out because those same kids need to go to a summer sports camp and/or do SJW-approved volunteer work. No self-respecting high school kid these days with a helicopter parent is going to have to flip burgers or mow lawns.

Posted by: Gref at March 03, 2017 02:27 PM (AMIL/)

257 I imagine they'll stop building artificial islands and threatening everyone when their standard of living begins to nosedive like ours has since the year 2000.

They have one helluva lot more mouths to feed.
Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:22 PM (ZFUt7)



On the other hand, if Japan circa 1920 to 1940 showed anything, they might get more belligerent.

Either way, modernization of our armed forces is a must.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:27 PM (ujg0T)

258
The $15/hr minimum wage makes perfect sense when you realize it's a quasi way to Unionize every single worker in the USA.

And, more importantly, to quasi Unionize every single employer in the USA.


Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:28 PM (anu2o)

259 How about we have an IQ-based immigration policy ?

Look buddy, this blog already has enough smart-asses.

Posted by: DaveA at March 03, 2017 02:28 PM (8J/Te)

260 Isn't it amazing that the author of that op-ed, George Borjas, is a Harvard professor who advocates lower immigration levels?

Posted by: Robert at March 03, 2017 02:29 PM (8uCXp)

261 >>Why did the NYT publish this? This goes against
everything they have printed about immigration since 2015 when the
election started.

Something is not right in the Universe.


Posted by: The Great White Scotsman

We were hacked by the Russians! And Trump helped them!

Posted by: NYT at March 03, 2017 02:29 PM (/Nite)

262 Remember the National Review and Wall Street Journals rational argument on immigration is for white working class people to die.

That is their idea of rational debate.

We are in emotional times...I think Ben Franklin said something about that back in the day.

Posted by: William Eaton at March 03, 2017 02:29 PM (MuTTO)

263 230, I have been pointing that out to everybody i know for years. It's just a nice sentiment on a pedestal of a statue --- that was a gift from a friendly, foreign nation. It is in no way the law of the land and it's not legally-binding.
Our immigration laws are subject to change--and always have been--for a variety of reasons.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:30 PM (7uYFy)

264 252 Per Polizette--FBI and DOJ Now have names of CIA leakers.
Posted by: Under Fire at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (LbnLf)

PROSECUTE. Nothing will change until people lose their clearance and their job and do time.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at March 03, 2017 02:30 PM (RD7QR)

265 258
The $15/hr minimum wage makes perfect sense when you realize it's a quasi way to Unionize every single worker in the USA.

And, more importantly, to quasi Unionize every single employer in the USA.


Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:28 PM (anu2o)

====================

It also makes perfect sense when you realize that the foot soldiers just don't understand economics or how businesses operate.

I had a friend in college, who was an actual friend, but once we left college we never spoke (it's kind of my way). Anyway, on Facebook about 5 years ago, she wrote about how businesses were perfectly able to predict business coming through their doors which meant that they could very easily schedule employees to maximize their profits.

The basic argument was really stupid (a lot of her friends who I didn't know jumped on with "Oh, my gosh! You're so smart!"), but she never even mentioned supply and demand in the whole thing.

I'm glad we only ever talked about scifi stuff when I actually knew her. My brain might have melted from talking about anything else.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:31 PM (LmWWz)

266 Wow, a Harvard professor advocating for immigration reduction.

Posted by: Robert at March 03, 2017 02:31 PM (8uCXp)

267 259. Really?? We have our share of dopes and imbeciles.
If we had an IQ test as a residency requirement, many of us would have to emigrate...

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (7uYFy)

268 Per Polizette--FBI and DOJ Now have names of CIA leakers.

To the gibbets!

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (oVJmc)

269 OT -

Instapundit has a link to an interesting story over at The Weekly Standard. Mark Hemingway writes at TWS that one week before Obama left office, he changed the order of succession for the US AG. Boente was cut out, and instead the order was the attorneys for the districts of DC, Northern Illinois, and Central California. Obama claimed that this was done in coordination with the incoming Trump administration. But the Trump administration reversed the order, which suggests that was not the case.

The article also notes that it may have been the actions by Yates that tipped the administration off to the fact that they needed to take a closer look at the succession for the AG, and thus caused Boente to be placed back at the top of the list. The DC attorney is a guy named Channing Phillips, who has worked off and on with Holder since all the way back in 1994.

The obvious conclusion noted by the article is that the Obama administration likely hoped to get Sessions to recuse himself (which he was apparently already planning to do before the latest uproar), and then Phillips would pick a rabid anti-Trump special prosecutor to investigate the claims of ties between the administration and Russia.

Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (nsZ+m)

270 Rush is absolutely right on today. Trump has no one but the people who voted for him. W's book tour is evidence that there is only a Uniparty and they are against We The People.

Dear Lord, how I despise these people.

Posted by: Pete Seria at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (lJW6d)

271 268 Per Polizette--FBI and DOJ Now have names of CIA leakers.

To the gibbets!
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (oVJmc)

==================

No single leaker was going to last very long. The larger question is: how many are there?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (LmWWz)

272 If two people have IQs of 130 and 140, the 140 isn't necessarily smarter than the 130.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison


I equate IQ to horsepower. Two cars, two identical cloned drivers on racetrack. One car 600 hp, the other 400. The 600 hp car, spins out, smokes tires, sits in place while the 400 hp car quietly assumes full speed. The 600 hp is more difficult to control, getting sideways on gear changes.

In a short race less is more. The 600 hp driver may eventually learn how to deal with all that power but there's no guarantee.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 02:33 PM (ZFUt7)

273 264---who said the FBI has the names of the leakers? This has been floating around for a couple of days and no one else has picked up on it.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:33 PM (7uYFy)

274 presumes that Mexico has any interest in beating the cartels.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (LmWWz)

The cartels ARE the Mexican Govt.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/02/01/
u-s-media-ignore-mexican-presidents-ties-to-drug-cartels/

Posted by: hambone at March 03, 2017 02:33 PM (g6yUI)

275 Not more than ten minutes ago...

RNC: Is this Marc?

Me: Yes it is.

RNC: As you know we've blah-blah-blah and our agenda continues to blah-blah-blah can we count on you for a thirty-five dollar donation to...

Me: When you repeal Obamacare, call me back.

*click*

Posted by: Cream of Sum Yung Gai at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (6gk0M)

276 I had a friend in college, who was an actual friend, but once we left college we never spoke (it's kind of my way). Anyway, on Facebook about 5 years ago, she wrote about how businesses were perfectly able to predict business coming through their doors which meant that they could very easily schedule employees to maximize their profits.


It is ok to say that once you were interested in more than just friendship with her. :-)

That said, her idea that "businesses were perfectly able to predict business coming through their doors" makes me bang my head on my desk, just thinking of her vapidly stating it.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (ujg0T)

277 Illegals and unskilled immigration is a net loss, no doubt in my mind. The monetary benefits mostly accrue to the already wealthy at the expense of poorer citizens while the costs are spread throughout society. It's a form of wealth transfer with the added benefit of community destabilization.

Posted by: Make America Great Again at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (A4HOq)

278
The Left doesn't care if unemployment is 40%. Unions don't care if their members are working or not. As long as some are working is enough.

All that matters is The Law that employers must pay $15/hr min.

That opens the door for more Laws and more govt power over employers....full Communism eventually.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (anu2o)

279 Stupid sock.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (6gk0M)

280
The obvious conclusion noted by the article is that the Obama administration likely hoped to get Sessions to recuse himself (which he was apparently already planning to do before the latest uproar), and then Phillips would pick a rabid anti-Trump special prosecutor to investigate the claims of ties between the administration and Russia.


It's completely clear that the Russian Interference claim is a lie invented by the Obama Administration in a clear case of domestic political sabotage. All the operatives that abused their official power in this need to be cast into the oubliette.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (oVJmc)

281
Is Bush's book something that requires crayons to fully enjoy??

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:35 PM (anu2o)

282 I was part of a conservative group here years ago, and did a presentation on immigration; I think I still have the slides somewhere, at least a printed copy.

I had stats from Pew Hispanic Center, Center for Immigration Studies, the Census... I spent several hours many days over several weeks. I pointed out many of the same things in this article and other things too, like how, 'they are such a big part of the workforce' is BS. The stats said they make up 30% of drywall installers, and that was the highest. It showed how they were a net drain because of the services they require, how a percentage of the money they make leaves our economy in the millions transferred back to Mexico. It was met politely.

The next month someone else did a presentation on immigration. It was the party line BS. 'Jobs Americans won't do', even though I refuted that, 'they have values like us because they are largely religious, so they'll vote GOP'... you all know the lines. Everyone was so excited about his presentation!

That was the beginning of the end of us for that group. We were the two youngest people there, I've been a Republican my whole life. They weren't interested in facts or reasonable debate and the leader, 'Joe', ran cover for Dave Reichert when Reichert was supporting some anti-global warming BS and other nutty-ness like illegal immigration. I got a lecture when I challenged Joe on that. There was even a dog-and-pony show of a few invited people, (including a huge contributor to Reichert's campaign), who sat with him, he fed them lines, Joe sent out an email telling us they were satisfied with Reichert's explanation and we should support him. There was no intellectual honesty, no debate, no principled stand. I was absolutely ready to leave the party behind, and I did leave that group behind.

The GOP made things worse too when concerned people (like me), would call or email and get treated like dirt, or McStain aided and abetted the left with his racist intimations. He is way past his 'best if used by' date.

I've had friends I knew from my MSFT days, immigrants here legally for years, maybe 18 months away from citizenship and got laid off because of outsourcing. They had a few weeks to find a job or be deported. That's something else that pissed me off; no one talks about that, the disparity between how legal immigrants are treated and illegals. I always thought that was a violation of the equal protection clause, but I'm not a lawyer.

Sorry for the rant. I am so GLAD - surprised? - the NYT printed this. Halle-fucking-lujah.

Posted by: atomicplaygirl (Gab: atomicplaygirl) at March 03, 2017 02:36 PM (Gim9y)

283 267 259. Really?? We have our share of dopes and imbeciles.
If we had an IQ test as a residency requirement, many of us would have to emigrate...
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (7uYFy)



As with the Left's claims of moral equivalency whenever they bring up home grown KKK boogeymen as an "answer" to Muslim terrorists, stating that "we have bad or defective people here too" is hardly a justification for importing more of them.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:36 PM (ujg0T)

284 276 It is ok to say that once you were interested in more than just friendship with her. :-)

That said, her idea that "businesses were perfectly able to predict business coming through their doors" makes me bang my head on my desk, just thinking of her vapidly stating it.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (ujg0T)

===================

She...was not hot.

We just ended up in a few of the same literature classes and discovered that we both liked to read scifi novels.

I fought with myself about responding with something like, "This is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read," but I considered it just too rude and left it alone.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:36 PM (LmWWz)

285 You know what they say about IQ tests: All they prove is how good you are at taking IQ tests.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:18 PM (LmWWz)


That's incorrect. IQ tests (good ones) are very important and specific measures of the basic mechanisms of intelligence. A high IQ doesn't ensure that one is intelligent but they are a very good indicator.

You can look at IQ tests like general athletic measures. One can measure the athletic ability of someone by having them run a 100 yard dash, a mile, vertical jump, bench press, coordination drills, flexibility, etc. These fundamental measures help to ascertain the athletic potential of a person. They don't guarantee that someone who scores highly will be a great football player or tennis player or gymnast or whatever. But they are the fundamental measures that every great athlete WILL do well on ... because they are the foundations of athletic ability. IQ is the same for thinking - i.e. intelligence.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 03, 2017 02:36 PM (zc3Db)

286 It's completely clear that the Russian Interference claim is a lie invented by the Obama Administration in a clear case of domestic political sabotage. All the operatives that abused their official power in this need to be cast into the oubliette.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:34 PM (oVJmc)

How about the stocks? Who wouldn't want a chance to pelt the God King with rotten vegetables? I'd buy tomatoes, just to leave out for this.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:37 PM (R7+kO)

287 We are we always on the defense:

Why is Mexico, and other latin american countries, not blamed for nourishing a social and economic environment in which sending to the US their most marginalized members of society is equal to ethnic cleansing? This "system" allows the mexican elites ( who are mostly of european descent and control most of the wealth in that country) to take the pressure off their very racist society. They are preserving an apartheid-like and non meritocratic society. If they did not have the USA onto which to dump their unwanted and diffuse the stress of their racist and elitist society, there would be massive anti government and anti elites revolt in Mexico.

Posted by: Martell at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (ri7Kw)

288 258
The $15/hr minimum wage makes perfect sense when you realize it's a quasi way to Unionize every single worker in the USA.

And, more importantly, to quasi Unionize every single employer in the USA.


Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:28 PM (anu2o)



Or to bring back Stagflation, which really WAS a hidden and massive tax increase on the American middle class.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (ujg0T)

289 Not more than ten minutes ago...

Hmmm. My phone rang just a minute ago from a DC number. Probably called me right after you.

I lifted the receiver and put it back to dump the call.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (oVJmc)

290 Pfft. Victor Davis Hanson had this pegged a decade ago. Old real news repackaged as fresh, innovative and daring commentary.
A sort of Virtue Signalling where they build cred with LIV's by showing how edgy they can be before posting 83 other articles conforming to party doctrine.
His interactions with ice axes will tell you if it meets the favor of the Central Committee.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (FtrY1)

291 274 presumes that Mexico has any interest in beating the cartels.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:26 PM (LmWWz)

The cartels ARE the Mexican Govt.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/02/01/
u-s-media-ignore-mexican-presidents-ties-to-drug-cartels/
Posted by: hambone at March 03, 2017 02:33 PM (g6yUI)

========================

Weaken the cartels, and you weaken their hold on the Mexican government, possibly leading to better times for Mexico.

Could be violent first, though.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (LmWWz)

292 @205 When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.

It was fun, for the most part. And put a little walking-around money in our pockets to boot.
------------------

People are told practically from the moment that they enter elementary school that jobs involving any form of manual labor are demeaning. So it's small wonder that people avoid it.

However, if the problem is that Americans aren't willing to do the work, it occurs to me that there is a very simple and entirely legal solution. Simply increase the number of LEGAL temporary work visas. A quick check of the US visa system indicated that there is already one in place for agricultural workers - the H2 Visa. If citizens won't pick the lettuce, then simply increase the number of H2 visas to allow enough people in to do the work.

Problem solved, no illegals involved, and no one gets paid sub-standard wages. And if anyone whines about the cost of groceries going up, ask them if they're really willing to let minorities get treated poorly just so that they can buy cheaper lettuce.

Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (nsZ+m)

293 He then get into the former model of immigration -- based on the assumption of assimilation -- being replaced by a new model favoring keeping one's ethnic identity and remaining in ethnic enclaves.

Posted by: Ace at 01:34 PM
__________

I know that some on the right like to make "assimilation" or "integration" the central points in their arguments, so that they still can talk positively about immigration in general and to make the sell of a slightly critical immigration position easier.

ut at some point we have to ask ourselves, despite this being a temptingly easier argument to make, wether it is actually true or not. Can we really still "assimilate" people in an age with global media, when intercontinental travel is a nothing burger and when the sheer scale of immigration, that has already happened and cant be undone, makes it very likely that you can stay in your ethno-national community, wether we want to encourage this as a "model" or not?

I think the facts on the ground regarding immigration dictate far more polarized alternatives than these easily sold arguments suggest.

Posted by: Nurse Ratched at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (atEqi)

294 Short story-- Not everything comes with no strings, every policy has winners and losers. Reality is like that.

Posted by: USNtakim at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (hMqvx)

295 Can we just get monsters like this out of our country? The left would have a problem with this?!!. Illegal from Guatemala rapes 3 year old girl:

http://tinyurl.com/z3rsgha

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:39 PM (fDdVG)

296 287

THIS X 1000

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:39 PM (7uYFy)

297 290 Pfft. Victor Davis Hanson had this pegged a decade ago. Old real news repackaged as fresh, innovative and daring commentary.
A sort of Virtue Signalling where they build cred with LIV's by showing how edgy they can be before posting 83 other articles conforming to party doctrine.
His interactions with ice axes will tell you if it meets the favor of the Central Committee.
Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (FtrY1)

====================

It's new to the people who read the New York Times and don't remember what the paper was saying in the 80s (or am I thinking of their complete opposition to any minimum wage?).

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:39 PM (LmWWz)

298
How about the stocks? Who wouldn't want a chance to pelt the God King with rotten vegetables? I'd buy tomatoes, just to leave out for this.
Posted by: Aetius451AD


But tomatoes will cost $5 each if we don't import cheap labor!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 02:39 PM (IqV8l)

299 It's that time of year again for marshmallow Peeps.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (anu2o)

You can have mine. I'll take the Cadbury eggs.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (ZM2xo)

300 But tomatoes will cost $5 each if we don't import cheap labor!
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 03, 2017 02:39 PM (IqV8l)

Rotten corn might be more fun actually. That's subsidized, right?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (R7+kO)

301 -Posted by: atomicplaygirl (Gab: atomicplaygirl) at March 03, 2017 02:36 PM (Gim9y)

Holy Shit...

*Standing Ovation*

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (6gk0M)

302 22 The Dems are not making any new friends with their Goebbels act, and only hardening those who already despise them. Actually, not just hardening them, but REALLY pissing them off.

Posted by: ISpy at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (0Su3S)

303 ...IQ tests (good ones) ...

Most University Professors score quite high on these. Just what we need. More Woodrow Wilson types. (sarcasm)

Posted by: Ok at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (K2SnJ)

304
271 268 Per Polizette--FBI and DOJ Now have names of CIA leakers.

To the gibbets!
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (oVJmc)



The Polizette? Sounds like a news letter that still uses a mimeograph machine to serve their 10 subscribers.

I'll wait until FBN or Ace picks this up as bonified.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (Fmupd)

305 281
Is Bush's book something that requires crayons to fully enjoy??
Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:35 PM (anu2o)

No but if you are okay with all the proceeds being donated to military charities it's worth buying.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (fcqmr)

306 The most important thing is that we crush the employers. Whether they employ illegals or not, they should all be fined and imprisoned!

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (eAZVt)

307 299 It's that time of year again for marshmallow Peeps.

Posted by: Soothsayer 45 at March 03, 2017 02:24 PM (anu2o)

You can have mine. I'll take the Cadbury eggs.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (ZM2xo)

Aye to the Cadbury eggs. Peeps are disgusting.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (R7+kO)

308 303 ...IQ tests (good ones) ...

Most University Professors score quite high on these. Just what we need. More Woodrow Wilson types. (sarcasm)

Posted by: Ok at March 03, 2017 02:40 PM (K2SnJ)

====================

"We're so smart we're going to run your lives for you."
-Modern day Philosopher Kings

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (LmWWz)

309 There is a broader issue with immigration that I have not seen rationally discussed.

For decades, we have patted ourselves on the back as college enrollment and graduation rates have increased exponentially. Let's pretend that everyone is coming out of school well educated and prepared to take on meaningful, productive employment as set aside the glaring fact that college has become the new high school and a significant number of high school and college graduates cannot do basic math are would be considered barely literate by standard a generation or two ago.

These graduates have been told that they have endless opportunities and near or higher than 6 figure salaries waiting for them when they graduate. Let's pretend that is even remotely true and 6 figure jobs are replicating like rabbits and faster than swelling graduation rates.

Now we look opposite these "successes" in education. Low skilled jobs go unfilled because graduates (and their massive and increasing student loan debt ) cannot afford to take the job and cover their debt payments. We see manufacturing and trade jobs either fleeing the country, going unfilled, or spiking in rates, making basic services less and less affordable.

Let's assume that there are no such thing as jobs that "Americans won't do". I'd sincerely like to believe that. With unions, regulation, litigation, taxes, Fight for $15, and the fact that savings rates have plummeted while personal debt has swelled at exponential rates and ever Millennial at Starbucks is financing the latest and greatest tech, cars on 7+ year notes, paying skyrocketing rent.... there ARE jobs American cannot afford to do and because they cannot afford what the products and services will cost if they did do them.

Short version: you cannot send generations of people to college (who would have been better served entering a trade or taking an entry level job and working their way up while getting paid), hand them degrees and giant debt payments and expect the debt to get paid or jobs to appear in response to graduate want or need. No, even if they we willing (they are not) your fresh minted PhD in Wimmez Studies is not going to go to work in manufacturing, pick oranges, become a plumber or welder, or fill jobs that used to be plentiful and offered long term stability and a path for growth.

Congratulations. You've educated your workforce out of work, America. The result is if the job stays here, it will be done by someone else or it will leave the country for friendly shores without 40% tax rates and where your employees are grateful for meaningful, stable work and aren't going to sue you on their first day because you failed to give them their first 6 months off with pay because their wife is pregnant, or you have designated genders on the office restrooms, or they failed to show up for two weeks because someone they didn't like got elected and they needed time in their safe space to cry.

You know who still shows up for work every day no matter who got elected and what sign is on the bathroom? Paco from Mexico or Ming from China or Singh from Indian. Why? Because they understand that work feeds them and their families, not Obamabucks. They didn't spend 4-8 years running up government guaranteed debt on pizza, booze, video games and strippers. For them, work is a privilege and a necessity that they worked hard to earn and depend on for to build a life for themselves and support their families. It's not an entitlement with an ever increasing list of demands for more while showing up and producing less.

Posted by: Damiano at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (71OEY)

310 Then we can have the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:42 PM (eAZVt)

311 306 The most important thing is that we crush the employers. Whether they employ illegals or not, they should all be fined and imprisoned!

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (eAZVt)

====================

*sarcasm...troll...or genuine belief...very unsure*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:42 PM (LmWWz)

312 I was wearing-off last-night's sock while atomicplaygirl was laying down the damn LAW.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:42 PM (6gk0M)

313 287 Bingo about Mexico!

Posted by: ISpy at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (0Su3S)

314 I used to work cherry harvest. Typically you work 10 hour days straight for about 21 days. When I started, high school kids could still work there. Then Washington passed a law that kids under 18 could only work up to 60 hours a week and there were also limits on the hours in the day they could work. It wasn't worth it to the company and they stopped hiring them.

Posted by: notsothoreau at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (5HBd1)

315 266 Wow, a Harvard professor advocating for immigration reduction.
Posted by: Robert at March 03, 2017 02:31 PM (8uCXp)
---------------------
Bah. I was arguing that for years. Years.

Posted by: Cesar Chavez at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (Nox3c)

316 And you notice how Mexican officials--and prominent white Mexican assholes like Jorge Ramos--are not the least bit embarrassed that their fellow countrymen WANT TO LEAVE.
Think about it. Has any other country anyone can think of ever been so butthurt that another nation would try to make it harder for their county's (Mexico) citizens to LEAVE?

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (7uYFy)

317 The obvious conclusion noted by the article is that the Obama administration likely hoped to get Sessions to recuse himself (which he was apparently already planning to do before the latest uproar), and then Phillips would pick a rabid anti-Trump special prosecutor to investigate the claims of ties between the administration and Russia.
Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:32 PM (nsZ+m)
--------

Just saw this. Obama is attempting a soft coup and force Trump with trumped up charges.

When Session recused himself, I was hoping he was ahead of the curve on the Dem's treachery.

He was...along with Trump.

Obama had set a trap and they navigated around it.

I only hope they're planning a counter attack.





Posted by: WisRich at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (hdpay)

318 You know who still shows up for work every day no matter who got elected and what sign is on the bathroom? Paco from Mexico or Ming from China or Singh from Indian. Why? Because they understand that work feeds them and their families, not Obamabucks. They didn't spend 4-8 years running up government guaranteed debt on pizza, booze, video games and strippers. For them, work is a privilege and a necessity that they worked hard to earn and depend on for to build a life for themselves and support their families. It's not an entitlement with an ever increasing list of demands for more while showing up and producing less.




Or, they sat back and waited for their ebt card to be reloaded.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (x/Nq/)

319 310 Then we can have the dictatorship of the proletariat.

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:42 PM (eAZVt)

311 306 The most important thing is that we crush the employers. Whether they employ illegals or not, they should all be fined and imprisoned!

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (eAZVt)

====================

*sarcasm...troll...or genuine belief...very unsure*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:42 PM (LmWWz)

Given his next post, I am thinking sarcasm. I approve.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (R7+kO)

320 316 And you notice how Mexican officials--and prominent white Mexican assholes like Jorge Ramos--are not the least bit embarrassed that their fellow countrymen WANT TO LEAVE.
Think about it. Has any other country anyone can think of ever been so butthurt that another nation would try to make it harder for their county's (Mexico) citizens to LEAVE?
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (7uYFy)

======================

....Cuba?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (LmWWz)

321 >>I used to work cherry harvest.

Me too. Oh to be young again.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (/tuJf)

322 319 Given his next post, I am thinking sarcasm. I approve.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (R7+kO)

====================

I agree.

Continue sarcasm mystery man!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:45 PM (LmWWz)

323 "sarcasm...troll...or genuine belief...very unsure"

Sarcastic troll and also an employer.

Posted by: Chris M at March 03, 2017 02:45 PM (eAZVt)

324 @282 I've had friends I knew from my MSFT days, immigrants here legally for years, maybe 18 months away from citizenship and got laid off because of outsourcing. They had a few weeks to find a job or be deported. That's something else that pissed me off; no one talks about that, the disparity between how legal immigrants are treated and illegals. I always thought that was a violation of the equal protection clause, but I'm not a lawyer.
-----------------

I've got a friend who came here legally to work as a nurse (I think). She attempted to switch employers (don't remember whether it was voluntary or involuntary), and at the last minute Immigration told her that her new job (which was nearly identical to what she'd been doing) didn't qualify. She managed to stay in the country by taking classes and working under the table (waitressing and in-home assisted living for people who didn't speak English very well) to get the money she needed. She just got a fully legal job as a paid intern, so she's pretty happy right now.

Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:46 PM (nsZ+m)

325 321 >>I used to work cherry harvest.

Me too. Oh to be young again.
Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2017 02:44 PM (/tuJf)

I think this has a double meaning.

Posted by: Roman Polanski at March 03, 2017 02:46 PM (fcqmr)

326 316 And you notice how Mexican officials--and prominent white Mexican assholes like Jorge Ramos--are not the least bit embarrassed that their fellow countrymen WANT TO LEAVE.
Think about it. Has any other country anyone can think of ever been so butthurt that another nation would try to make it harder for their county's (Mexico) citizens to LEAVE?
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (7uYFy)

It is not just that they would like to get some of their more undesirables out, it is that they want them to send hard currency back. It is a weird phenomena, like tourism, but where the money you put into the economy is sent back to where you left.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:46 PM (R7+kO)

327 320---no. Cuba doesn't want it's people to leave.
Maybe I was unclear.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:47 PM (7uYFy)

328 Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:46 PM (nsZ+m)

Filipino?

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:47 PM (fcqmr)

329 How about the stocks? Who wouldn't want a chance to pelt the God King with rotten vegetables? I'd buy tomatoes, just to leave out for this.
Posted by: Aetius451AD
****

It allow his admirers to really get up close and personal with him IYKWIMAITTYD

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (0x/TW)

330 327 320---no. Cuba doesn't want it's people to leave.
Maybe I was unclear.
Posted by: JoeF. at March 03, 2017 02:47 PM (7uYFy)

==================

I didn't grock.

Lack of sleep. Close to weekend. No food since last night.

It's their fault, not mine!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (LmWWz)

331 328 Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:46 PM (nsZ+m)

Filipino?
Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:47 PM (fcqmr)

Just out of curiosity: why don't we type Philipino?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (R7+kO)

332 See, I think the leftists love the ethnic enclaves. They can visit the Mexican restaurant and the market on the main drag (not too far into the bad neighborhood) and feel "authentic" without having to leave the US. It's like going to a museum for them. Oh, how quaint. They're not the ones who have to deal with the gangs and crappy schools and 10 people in a 2 bedroom apartment.

Keeping immigrants from assimilating always means your children will never have to compete against theirs, except for the few that are permitted to rise though affirmative action.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (ZM2xo)

333 315 266 Wow, a Harvard professor advocating for immigration reduction.
Posted by: Robert at March 03, 2017 02:31 PM (8uCXp)
---------------------
Bah. I was arguing that for years. Years.
Posted by: Cesar Chavez at March 03, 2017 02:43 PM (Nox3c)



He actually WAS, at one time.

But toward the end of his life, Ceasar Chavez became a "Fausto", as "La Causa" of better wages and benefits was subordinated to "La Raza" of importing a larger underclass.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 03, 2017 02:49 PM (ujg0T)

334 I've taken-up a new hobby. Every number I don't reckognize is answered in a new accent. It is dour and foreboding and it warns that I am on the federal "Do Not Call List".

I was a Russian and an Italian today.

I've got nothing since I cancelled XBoxLive.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:49 PM (6gk0M)

335 329 How about the stocks? Who wouldn't want a chance to pelt the God King with rotten vegetables? I'd buy tomatoes, just to leave out for this.
Posted by: Aetius451AD
****

It allow his admirers to really get up close and personal with him IYKWIMAITTYD
Posted by: Tilikum KAW at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (0x/TW)

Gah. Images.

On the other hand, any misses would hit his supporters. Win-Win.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:49 PM (R7+kO)

336 309 There is a broader issue with immigration that I have not seen rationally discussed.


Bullshit tradesmen are in demand and can do quite well for themselves no education beyond tech/trade school required. Collage is still worth it if you are selective a stay in stem or healthcare.

Posted by: USNtakim at March 03, 2017 02:50 PM (hMqvx)

337 Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:48 PM (R7+kO)

The island is spelled with an F in Spanish.

Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:50 PM (fcqmr)

338 The island is spelled with an F in Spanish.
Posted by: Jack Sock at March 03, 2017 02:50 PM (fcqmr)

Ahhh, ok- that makes sense. Thanks. Non Sarcasm.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:51 PM (R7+kO)

339 Nood.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at March 03, 2017 02:51 PM (R7+kO)

340 Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:49 PM (6gk0M)

LOL. That's quite a talent. Congratulations!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:51 PM (fDdVG)

341 @328 Filipino?
-----------------

No. She's the Japanese national I've mentioned here on occasion.

Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:51 PM (nsZ+m)

342 I have been pointing that out to everybody i know for years. It's just a nice sentiment on a pedestal of a statue --- that was a gift from a friendly, foreign nation.

And it was a bunch of happy horseshit designed as cover for the real reason all the indigents of Southern Europe were allowed in: to build the infrastructure of the big cities and work in the sweatshops.

Posted by: kallisto - at March 03, 2017 02:52 PM (nNdYv)

343 Congratulations. You've educated your workforce out of work, America. "

Mike Rowe makes this point all the time.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at March 03, 2017 02:52 PM (ZM2xo)

344 "LOL. That's quite a talent. Congratulations!"
-Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:51 PM (fDdVG)

I think I have mastered at least seven accents. Others need improvement.

Posted by: Slapweasel, (Cold1), (T) at March 03, 2017 02:53 PM (6gk0M)

345 332 See, I think the leftists love the ethnic enclaves.

=====

I believe a bigger factor in the leftist love for Central American "immigrants" is because the Central Americans are another group of non-whites who were stomped-on by evil white Christian Europeans.

Posted by: Gref at March 03, 2017 02:54 PM (AMIL/)

346 I was a Russian and an Italian today.




So what did YOU talk to Sessions about?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:54 PM (x/Nq/)

347 Ah, talking about Mexicans reminds me of south Texas. I don't mind Mexicans. They're harder working than other minorities and their families stick together. I just don't understand the thing they all seem to have with stealing. Swiper no swiping!!!

But Laredo might as well be another country. Anything south of San Antonio is getting kind of scary.

Posted by: H at March 03, 2017 02:55 PM (b4rXB)

348 Nood

Posted by: rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:56 PM (x/Nq/)

349 309----.....You know who still shows up for work every day no matter who got elected and what sign is on the bathroom? Paco from Mexico or Ming from China or Singh from Indian. Why? Because they understand that work feeds them and their families, not Obamabucks. They didn't spend 4-8 years running up government guaranteed debt on pizza, booze, video games and strippers. For them, work is a privilege and a necessity that they worked hard to earn and depend on for to build a life for themselves and support their families. It's not an entitlement with an ever increasing list of demands for more while showing up and producing less.
Posted by: Damiano at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (71OEY)
----------------------------
This is a reality we have to take into account.
It's not just that illegals are cheaper labor --- sometimes they aren't --- but they are better.

For example, look at the rebuilding of the Mississippi coast after Katrina. You had extremely high unemployment rates among the natives yet few showed up for work. Those that did had terrible work habits and most often didn't stick around to complete the job.
In the end, the work was done by illegals, mostly Mexicans.

Both the welfare state and the attack on manual labor that you describe are poisonous and must be overcome.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at March 03, 2017 02:57 PM (Nox3c)

350 So what did YOU talk to Sessions about?
Posted by

rickb223 at March 03, 2017 02:54 PM (x/Nq/)

LOL. I'm not regular Rush listener, but he said that today, between the election and the inauguration of Trump, Obama met with the Russian ambassador at least 10 times. i forget the actual number.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 03, 2017 02:57 PM (fDdVG)

351
292 @205 When I was around 12-13 years old, the cotton farmers in our area used to be waiting outside the school when it let out to recruit us to pick cotton for 2 cents a pound. They always had more than enough of us to get their crop in.

It was fun, for the most part. And put a little walking-around money in our pockets to boot.
------------------

People are told practically from the moment that they enter elementary school that jobs involving any form of manual labor are demeaning. So it's small wonder that people avoid it.

However, if the problem is that Americans aren't willing to do the work, it occurs to me that there is a very simple and entirely legal solution. Simply increase the number of LEGAL temporary work visas. A quick check of the US visa system indicated that there is already one in place for agricultural workers - the H2 Visa. If citizens won't pick the lettuce, then simply increase the number of H2 visas to allow enough people in to do the work.

Problem solved, no illegals involved, and no one gets paid sub-standard wages. And if anyone whines about the cost of groceries going up, ask them if they're really willing to let minorities get treated poorly just so that they can buy cheaper lettuce.
Posted by: junior at March 03, 2017 02:38 PM (nsZ+m)

I think Pol Pot had the answer to this problem.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at March 03, 2017 02:58 PM (FtrY1)

352 Posted by: Damiano at March 03, 2017 02:41 PM (71OEY)

A coworker and I were chit-chatting, somehow we got on the subject of self-employed people. At one point he realized that most of the small business entrepreneurs he knows are LEGAL immigrants. He said, "My family's been here for generations, and they made all this money in less than 20 years!"

I told him that foreigners don't risk all and leave their extended families behind in order to occupy a stall in a cube farm. They come to America for the economic opportunity.

My dad and his brothers-in-law never even graduated high school and their balance sheets are far healthier than their American born, college educated children.

I tried to follow in my dad's footsteps but I don't have the same drive he had. I guess because I didn't grow up dirt poor.

Posted by: kallisto - at March 03, 2017 02:59 PM (nNdYv)

353 @349 Margarita DeVille

I agree. That is an excellent point no one talks about. Many Americans are lazy. Too much TV and alcohol (and drugs). Our forefathers were hard working badasses. I'm sure they'd be embarasssd or horrified at their modern progeny.

Posted by: H at March 03, 2017 03:00 PM (b4rXB)

354 You had extremely high unemployment rates among the natives yet few showed up for work.

You destroy the values, family structure, and work ethic of a class - and they will vote for you for 50 years.

Posted by: LBJ the legacy at March 03, 2017 03:00 PM (zZb/S)

355 And FYI, most of the folks we are getting from Mexico are from the cities. They aren't interested in doing farm work either. It's been that way since the 70s.

There is no reason for us to import labor for these jobs. All college seems to do is encourage people to hold non-college graduates in contempt. I actually loved doing orchard work. You are outside a lot and there is a seasonal rhythm. There's an start and an end to harvest, pruning, etc. And you have lots of time to think. It's a lot better than office work.

Posted by: notsothoreau at March 03, 2017 03:01 PM (5HBd1)

356
When it comes to Ace and IQ - what do we say? I know my own command of the English language, my own ability to turn a phrase, make something humorous, my 99.99% rankings on standardized tests. His abilities and performance leave me in the dust, shaking my head and shaking a fist.

I still think Breitbart should have hired him to replace Milo. Under a different name. Too much dirty laundry back here for leftists to wade through.

Posted by: E Depluribus Unum at March 03, 2017 03:01 PM (ZFUt7)

357 320.

In Cuba's case they were losing their middle class, business people, working class, professionals. Therefore, the communist government in that island started making it very very difficult for those people to leave. A decade of trying to be let out. Work camps included. Prison. Torture. Personal family history. People wanted to leave. The communists did not want to let them out.

These maggots can't fool people like me.

Posted by: Martell at March 03, 2017 03:03 PM (ri7Kw)

358 1. Suspend ALL immigration until we get a handle on how many illegal aliens are in the US. My guess is MANY millions more than generally estimated.
2. Immediately stop any and all public welfare benefits to all illegals. The Immigration & Naturalization Act actually says that even legal immigrants are barred from taking public assistance -- the "public charge" ineligibility.
3. Stop birthright citizenship. Anyone who is not a legal resident or citizen can NOT transmit citizenship to a child born in the US.
4. ONLY after 1-3 are accomplished should we have the "immigration debate" about how many immigrants the US should take.
5. H-1B work visas are a sham. American workers first. Send all those Student F visa holders who convert to work visas after graduating back to their own countries to apply the skills they learned in US universities to fix their own countries. Family reunification MUST stop. Spouse and minor children ONLY. No one needs their parents and adult siblings to move to the US just because they did.
6. Suspend all refugees until there is a real investigation into refugee resettlement. The UN refugee system is not working according to the Refugee Convention. Even "extreme vetting" is impossible in countries without functioning governments, secure vital document systems, civil wars. Refugees are supposed to stay in the the first safe country they reach -- the country of "first asylum". NO muslim refugees until Muslim countries take an equal number of refugees as western democracies.

This is just all common sense.

Posted by: Delilah at March 03, 2017 03:18 PM (rPtfr)

359 I can personally attest to the cost of immigration policies...

Because I care for my aging Mom, I am really limited as to how far I can travel for work... and am in a depressed area in Central Calif.

There was an IT opening about to be put on the Jobs boards for a good position at UC Merced CA... and because of inside info, I had a line on it...

Ooops... Janet Nap outsourced the entire UC IT system support... that job is now held by an H1B person, because Colleges do not even have enter the 'drawing' for H1B Visas... they do not count against the Cap, and so have an unlimited supply.

So.... American citizen is unemployed... Foreigner is HERE working that job...

Posted by: Don Q. at March 03, 2017 03:21 PM (NgKpN)

360 I recommend Borjas' most recent book "We Wanted Workers" too.

Posted by: Lawrence Larson at March 03, 2017 03:35 PM (d/r2I)

361 Seems like Trump 's argument was pretty persuasive even without the wonky facts. Final score:306_232

Posted by: Regular joe at March 03, 2017 04:43 PM (ROIz5)

362 Totally awesome and informative post.

Posted by: Wendy at March 03, 2017 04:51 PM (J/iGX)

363 My company, many co-workers will be leaving us soon, after spending March training their Indian replacements. Argh.

Posted by: waelse1 at March 03, 2017 07:16 PM (cgXcI)

364 Scab labor.

With all the extra costs offloaded on you and me, Mr Ms John Q Public.

Posted by: Beverly at March 04, 2017 02:29 AM (10AIJ)

365 Canada deports illegal aliens.
Hysterical lefties want to move to Canada over Trump's efforts to enforce America's immigration laws, which would mean deporting illegal aliens.
Does that mean all those droves of hysterical liberals will now be moving to Canada and threatening to move to some other country when they find out Canada's Prime Minister Zoolander also deports illegal aliens?
And, what country doesn't deport illegal aliens?

Posted by: Stan at March 05, 2017 12:51 PM (n8g88)

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MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!

Real Clear Politics
Gallup
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Top Top Tens
Greatest Hitjobs

The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat