Saturday Politics Thread: Labor Policies, Part I [Y-not]

Good morning! Over the next two weeks I'd like to examine the candidates' records with respect to labor laws, focusing in particular on unionization. This has been a hot topic for several years now.

To my recollection, the person who first put this on the map nationally was Chris Christie when he took on the teacher's unions in New Jersey way back in 2010 (a battle that is still ongoing).

More recently, Scott Walker has become a hero on the Right for his battles with the public employee unions in Wisconsin (more about that later).

This topic is huge, so I've decided to divide it into two (I hope) posts, otherwise I will wind up paying short shrift to the candidates' records and accomplishments.

To get us started, here's a bit of background from National Affairs:

The effects of public-sector unionism can be grouped under three broad headings. The first centers on compensation, which includes wages, pensions, health care, and other benefits easily valued in monetary terms -- the core issues at stake in collective-bargaining negotiations. The second involves the amount of government employment, or the size of government, as reflected in the number of workers and in public budgets. The third involves the productivity and efficiency of government services. Insofar as unions negotiate detailed work rules, they share the power to shape the day-to-day responsibilities of public servants -- which influences what government does, and how well it does it.

These are complex matters that are hard for social scientists to measure, and on which scholars disagree. Nevertheless, the evidence supports a few broad conclusions.

Most economists agree that public-sector unions' political power leads to more government spending...

Follow the link to read the whole thing.

If you don't feel like reading, KT recommended this Andrew Klavan video about public employee unions:

As Governors Christie, Walker, and others have discovered, the burden on state budgets produced from public sector unions is onerous. Back to that National Affairs article:

When Chris Christie became New Jersey's governor in January, he wasted no time in identifying the chief perpetrators of his state's fiscal catastrophe. Facing a nearly $11 billion budget gap -- as well as voters fed up with the sky-high taxes imposed on them to finance the state government's profligacy -- Christie moved swiftly to take on the unions representing New Jersey's roughly 400,000 public employees.

On his first day in office, the governor signed an executive order preventing state-workers' unions from making political contributions -- subjecting them to the same limits that had long applied to corporations. More recently, he has waged a protracted battle against state teachers' unions, which are seeking pay increases and free lifetime health care for their members. Recognizing the burden that such benefits would place on New Jersey's long-term finances, Christie has sought instead to impose a one-year wage freeze, to change pension rules to limit future benefits, and to require that teachers contribute a tiny fraction of their salaries to cover the costs of their health insurance -- measures that, for private-sector workers, would be mostly uncontroversial.

Whether or not Christie succeeded (it appears he has not, by and large), what he set out to do in New Jersey is something that many states are confronting these days.

This is an encouraging sign:


You can read more about the new Illinois governor here.

A somewhat related issue is so-called Right-to-Work legislation:

The Right to Work principle... affirms the right of every American to work for a living without being compelled to belong to a union. Compulsory unionism in any form--"union," "closed," or "agency" shop--is a contradiction of the Right to Work principle and the fundamental human right that the principle represents.

Here's a recent map showing the states that have enacted Right-to-Work laws:

RightToWorkMap.jpg

Map showing Right to Work states

And this link lists when each state adopted RTW laws.

Of the candidates we're studying in depth, the governors of Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina, and Indiana are from Right-to-Work states, while Wisconsin and New Mexico have yet to pass Right-to-Work legislation.

Finally, this link to the AFL-CIO provides you a window into the other side's mindset:

Extremist groups, right-wing politicians and their corporate backers want to weaken the power of workers and their unions through "right to work" laws. Their efforts are a partisan political ploy that undermines the basic rights of workers. By making unions weaker, these laws lower wages and living standards for all workers in the state. In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states. Because of the higher wages, working families in states without these laws also benefit from healthier tax bases that improve their quality of life.

I think it's important to pay attention to how our opponents are making their case against right-to-work laws because it will certainly be an issue in the general election. Frankly, if the GOP is successfully painted as being hostile to the American worker, we will lose big in 2016.

It seems to me that there are several issues at play here. One is demonstrating fiscal responsibility by addressing budgetary burdens caused by public sector unions. Another is fostering pro-growth policies by creating a favorable labor market for employers. And the third, the kitchen table economics that affect the average American voter (for example keeping unions from picking the pockets of workers through forced dues).

But there are other factors at play that concern me when it comes time to make the case to general election voters.

One, do general election voters really vote for fiscally responsible Presidential candidates? When I looked at the 2012 and 2014 exit polling a while back issues like deficit reduction were less important to the voters than the economy, health care, and illegal immigration.

Two, the Democrats have been hammering on the class warfare thing for a long time now. Whatever the reality, they were effective at painting Romney/Ryan as being less concerned with "average Americans" than they were with the One Percent and Evil Corporations. Will the GOP be able to successfully counter the charge that by being anti-union they are putting the goals of corporate fat cats ahead of the average American worker?

That argument can be countered, but I'm concerned it becomes much harder to deflect if the GOP doesn't put a stake through the heart of the "more cheap labor" crowd, because then it will appear the GOP's policies are all about driving down wages for American workers.

I asked on Twitter if I was worrying needlessly. What do you think?

See you next week!


Previous "issues" threads:

Taxes

Economy Jobs and Wages

Energy here and here

Common Core

"Fiscal Scorecards" for each candidate (Mike Pence's is here)


Candidate Backgrounders:

Walker, Perry, Jindal here

Paul, Rubio, Cruz here

Kasich, Haley, Martinez here

Pence here

Gowdy, Sessions, Carson, Lee here

Huntsman, Bush, Christie here

Romney, Ryan, Huckabee, Palin here


(As a reminder, the candidates being studied in depth were determined after reviewing 20 prospective GOP candidates' records and conducting some highly unscientific polling at HQ. The goal is to determine which, if any, of these candidates are "conservative enough" (or qualified enough) for us to support, either as first choices in the primary against a Jeb Bush type or in the general election against the Democrat nominee.

ICYMI, Conservative Review is doing in depth treatments of fifteen 2016 prospects. Their list differs from ours to some extent (for example, they'll be reviewing Donald Trump, but not Governors Haley or Martinez), so you might want to check out their posts as they become available.)

Posted by: Open Blogger at 08:45 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Lots to read

Thanks Y-not

BRB

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 08:45 AM (Z8FQp)

2 Missouri's presently trying to pass Right-To-Work.

I'm down with anything that reigns in the union-dem crime family.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at February 14, 2015 08:46 AM (MMC8r)

3 Most economists agree that public-sector unions' political power leads to more government spending...

------
In other news political observers have noted that everything leads to more government spending...

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 08:47 AM (z27Ny)

4 >>Missouri's presently trying to pass Right-To-Work.

Yes, I saw that.

IIRC New Mexico is starting to debate it, too.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 08:47 AM (9BRsg)

5 Media reaction to Walker is convincing me that he's our guy.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 08:48 AM (NUH0o)

6 Unions have long since outlived their purpose. ESPECIALLY Public Unions which should be illegal

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 08:48 AM (rDqRv)

7 Public employee unions were illegal for most of our nations history and they should be illegal now. Unions are based on an adversarial relationship between management and labor. There is no such relationship for public employees.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 08:49 AM (wlDny)

8 And I do not think the Fat Man has done such a good job in NJ.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 08:49 AM (wlDny)

9 Public Unions are nothing more than an arm of the radical left wing and communist party

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 08:50 AM (rDqRv)

10 And I do not think the Fat Man has done such a good job in NJ.
-----
But his presence can fill a room...

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 08:51 AM (z27Ny)

11 By making unions weaker, these laws lower wages and living standards for all workers in the state.


This is BS. I posted a link in the morning thread that had a study that said wages actually decreased after a group went union shop.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 08:51 AM (wlDny)

12 It does seem that the left most fears Walker.

Posted by: Nikkolai at February 14, 2015 08:51 AM (aEfC9)

13 Normally when I do these threads I feel more encouraged about 2016 b/c I do think that our candidate pool is stronger this time.

But this week I became very glum -- I think because I am seeing how the GOP policies line up against the Dem/MSM drumbeat of class warfare and I don't have confidence that the GOP can/will counter that nonsense effectively.

Really what did it for me was the realization that the "comprehensive immigration reform" crowd (such as Zwick and Big Money Donors who were lobbying yesterday) are so hell bent on cheap labor for their corporate interests that they don't care what happens to American workers.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 08:52 AM (9BRsg)

14 I have no problems with unions in the private sector. People should be allowed, if they want to, to unionize and negotiate with a corporation. But they shouldn't be forced to, I can't believe there are so many states that are not right-to-work states!

Public unions are another story.. abolish them all!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 14, 2015 08:53 AM (/9Mak)

15 Does the supposed lower wages being non-union account for the fact that I don't have the Mafia taking it's cut off the top?

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at February 14, 2015 08:54 AM (MMC8r)

16 Another reform needs to be switching pensions to Defined Contribution plans instead of Defined Benefit.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at February 14, 2015 08:56 AM (MMC8r)

17 >>And I do not think the Fat Man has done such a good job in NJ.

I believe I acknowledged that above.


>> I posted a link in the morning thread that had a study that said wages actually decreased after a group went union shop.

Here's my concern. Real household incomes are down for the entire country over the past few decades. (I posted that study in an earlier thread.) The best-performing state is Texas with a 3% drop from peak. IIRC the national average is around -9%. So I think voters are going to be exquisitely sensitive - and easily duped by - arguments that the GOP only cares about cheap labor for Big Evil Business, especially if an entire wing of the GOP is pushing for more cheap labor from abroad.


So I am not proposing we change anything on the union stuff -- full speed ahead, I say -- but we have got to get these open borders people to quit their shit.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 08:59 AM (9BRsg)

18 >>Whatever the reality

Which they will just make up.

See Time-Traveling Scott Walker cutting jobs in the past:

http://tinyurl.com/o5256eu

Posted by: Shirley U. Jest/Mama AJ at February 14, 2015 09:00 AM (0xTsz)

19 "By making unions weaker, these laws lower wages and living standards for all workers in the state."



Good socialist tripe there.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 14, 2015 09:01 AM (7SUbI)

20 In other good news Walker does like building paths for DREAMers.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:01 AM (z27Ny)

21 Someone on our side needs to start talking about how much tax monies are going to retired union worker's pensions and not going into needed infrastructure maintenance.

And one more tidbit: someone needs to point out that a dollar of tax revenue gets a large chunk of it eaten by administrative overhead, something like 44 cents, by the time it gets back around to being seen by the taxpayer.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at February 14, 2015 09:01 AM (0HooB)

22 New Il Gov Bruce Rauner is gearing up for a major battle with the pub sec unions here in Illinois. Gonna be fun to watch...Not sure if he can do it though.

Posted by: Big Fuckin Al at February 14, 2015 09:02 AM (OZtuG)

23 And one more tidbit: someone needs to point out that a dollar of tax revenue gets a large chunk of it eaten by administrative overhead, something like 44 cents, by the time it gets back around to being seen by the taxpayer.
---

The solution to that is higher taxes for those charming people at the IRS to spend on high resolution monitors for watching pron.
/sarc

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:03 AM (9BRsg)

24 someone needs to point out that a dollar of tax revenue gets a large chunk of it eaten by administrative overhead, something like 44 cents, by the time it gets back around to being seen by the taxpayer.
-------
You're welcome.

Posted by: AFGE at February 14, 2015 09:04 AM (z27Ny)

25 >>Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:01 AM

Yeah, I saw that.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:04 AM (9BRsg)

26 "In other good news Walker does like building paths for DREAMers."


Yes, there is that. He's good pretty much everywhere else but he's mentioned pathways before. But, then again, who among the GOP runners hasn't?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 14, 2015 09:05 AM (7SUbI)

27 I do NOT support Christie for any National Office, and he's done a so-so job here in NJ. But the important thing is, whatever he did, he did it better than any Putz Democrat who we might have gotten if he as not in Office and I thank G-D for that little favor. Remember what State this is and who the voters are.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:05 AM (rDqRv)

28 @8

Christie has accomplished nothing in New Jersey.

The one thing he has done even though he's extremely week on the 2nd amendment, when Newtown happened and the other North East went gun law crazy, he told the Dems he would veto all of the proposed gun control laws they were itching to pass.

The nano second a dem governor is sworn in, those gun control laws will be on his desk.

Posted by: Kreplach at February 14, 2015 09:06 AM (3lxYj)

29 Christie has accomplished nothing in New Jersey.


That's really not true at all. He accomplished keeping a Democrat out of the State Mansion

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:07 AM (rDqRv)

30 But, then again, who among the GOP runners hasn't?
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 14, 2015 09:05 AM (7SUbI)

-----
Rick InSantorum?

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:07 AM (z27Ny)

31 That's entirely too much research for me to do. Hows about the horde figure it out for me and let me know. I trust your political judgment...

Posted by: Talibill at February 14, 2015 09:08 AM (JiHh6)

32 I do NOT support Christie for any National Office, and he's done a so-so job here in NJ. But the important thing is, whatever he did, he did it better than any Putz Democrat...
---

Yeah, I agree. I used him as an example b/c I thought that article was good (and it focussed on him) and b/c in all honesty he's the one I remember being in the forefront of this stuff first.

I'll be talking about Walker and the others in more depth next week. I started drafting that section but it was getting too long and I had to got to a wake last night.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:10 AM (9BRsg)

33 Shame that we can't build the narrative that Public Sector Unions are pretty much in the same class as petroleum based energy sources.

Both were needed in the development of our Nation.
But, just like non-renewable energy, Public Sector Unions are an outdated, un-necessary burden on the nation, the environments, our very planets climate, and right thinking Progressives should not be afraid to move forward.
Proudly
United

In a bold new workers world, where Unions do not strip away a portion of the workers hard earned, yet equally distributed wealth for the support of Union leaders.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:10 AM (Z8FQp)

34 @29

That's true but I was looking for a little bit more.

Like how about ending the endless construction on I-80?

I easy that way.

Posted by: Kreplach at February 14, 2015 09:11 AM (3lxYj)

35 GOP candidates can be pro-taxpayer here, and avoid the anti-union label. It's the Democrats who are anti-taxpayer.

But how does this issue become an issue in the Presidential campaign? I don't see it happening.

Public employee unions are anti-taxpayer, and states (like New Jersey, where I am right now) are going broke because if promises made to PEU members.

It's primarily a state issue though, and I don't know how much of a factor it'll be on the national race. For Walker I think it primarily shows he's tough enough to deal with spending cut fights on entitlements, even though the issues are directly analogous.

Posted by: MTF at February 14, 2015 09:11 AM (FCsIb)

36 In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states.

Are they lower cost-of-living states? Most likely, since the Dem ratholes are high CoL states.

And how much does the union steal? I'm not earning less if the unions steal that much from me.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at February 14, 2015 09:12 AM (MMC8r)

37 >>Shame that we can't build the narrative...

It seems as if for the past two Presidential elections we can't build ANY narrative.

That scares the shit out of me.

It's also why I am not on board with the "we need a boring candidate" stuff I read. I think we need to run a really good speaker.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:12 AM (9BRsg)

38 "Rick InSantorum?"


Is he a serious contender? No snark.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 14, 2015 09:12 AM (7SUbI)

39 When IN passed the right to work law, my former cousin was on facebook shrieking that it was "TERRRIBLE, AWFUL, EVIL, POISONOUS, OH MY GOD I COULD LOSE MY JOB HORRIBLE" I told him the truth about right to work and what it really meant. He called me a few really nasty names and unfriended me. That was a few years ago and I have not spoken to him since. I won't either. If he ever comes face to face with hubbymayhem, he will be crying, praying, and begging for it to stop. Union stooges are unhinged idiots.

Posted by: madamemayhem at February 14, 2015 09:12 AM (WPm3x)

40 All you need to know how upside down unionism is all you have to do is look at the NYPD.

They pay 4.6B for 36k active duty officers and 4.7B for 43k retirees.

That's untenable.

Posted by: Kreplach at February 14, 2015 09:13 AM (3lxYj)

41 OT: Defense Politics

Success! Operation Enduring Freedom is over. Long live Operations Freedom's Sentinel and Resolute Support !

In fake but accurate news:

1. In the DoD code word issuance department, Operation Enduring Stupidity continues.

2. For A-10 advocates there is a one-year win and the continuance of Operation Enduring Value

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:13 AM (z27Ny)

42 "Are they lower cost-of-living states? Most likely, since the Dem ratholes are high CoL states. "

Is there a legitimate argument to be made that Unions do indeed directly contribute to the higher cost of living in Non Right To Work (NRTW) States?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:14 AM (Z8FQp)

43 >>But how does this issue become an issue in the Presidential campaign? I don't see it happening.

Because most of the folks we're considering are governors and what they accomplished as governors will be the bulk of their records.

And when you couple it with any hint of "let's give legal status to millions of illegals" it really paints a picture of the GOP being hostile to U.S. workers.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:15 AM (9BRsg)

44 The key is private vs public unions. First public unions should be banned, second no person should be forced to join an organization to get a job.


I don't think the unions have much clout in most states any more. The ones have some juice are already blue states, so I say take them on head on.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:16 AM (0FSuD)

45 They pay 4.6B for 36k active duty officers and 4.7B for 43k retirees.

One thing breaking the back of the American system is how much money we spend on paying people to no longer produce.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at February 14, 2015 09:16 AM (MMC8r)

46 First public unions should be banned, second no person should be forced to join an organization to get a job.
---

Sounds good to me.

Someone remind me, was the genesis of public unions during the Kennedy era?

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:17 AM (9BRsg)

47 26 Yes, there is that. He's good pretty much everywhere
else but he's mentioned pathways before. But, then again, who among the
GOP runners hasn't?


Posted by: Ricardo Kill at February 14, 2015 09:05 AM (7SUbI)


Cruz is the only one who is not pro-amnesty in one form or another.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 09:18 AM (wlDny)

48 Right to work = you don't have to pay off anyone to get hired.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:18 AM (rRnrU)

49 Answered my own question. Postal workers union started in 1889.

We are boned.

smdh

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:18 AM (9BRsg)

50
Paraphrasing Y-Not: Who among the R candidates has not spoken at least favorably about pathways to citizenship?
I see this issue as the biggest concern facing our country and our political class is determined (or at best openly considering) selling us out.
At this time, I can support a squish on the pathway issue. Least bad option, and if they are being honest (I'll wait here for the laughter to end...) once in office they may decide America and Americans come first. (if y'all keep laughing like that you'll wet your pants!)
In short, I have 3 kids that are 20 something. I will fight for their future.

Posted by: tbodie at February 14, 2015 09:18 AM (bVtr0)

51 37 >>Shame that we can't build the narrative...

This. We (conservatives) or I should say our proxies can't pull their head out of their ass long enough to build a solid platform and stick to it. The Dems figured this out and are experts at maintaining the talking points.

Posted by: Talibill at February 14, 2015 09:18 AM (JiHh6)

52 I want Cruz to be POTUS. If he runs I'm all in.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:19 AM (rRnrU)

53 The other L word appropriate for today

http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/selection-du-weekend-127-27.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at February 14, 2015 09:19 AM (nZNJN)

54 Soon Illegals will come knocking on the union doors.



Posted by: eman at February 14, 2015 09:20 AM (MQEz6)

55 Y-not

I agree that a lackluster Candidate is mostly unable to build a narrative.

But, I was referring to the, for lack of a better word, Conservative Blogosphere.

You build the idea that Unions are past their sell by date.
That Minority women, many of them single mothers, are as entitled to their Constitution right to protect themselves as some rich white dude living in a mansion with a security staff.

That minority children should have access to a world class education, and why are Democrats blocking that access to vouchers.

that many times, inner city children, due to the poor economy only have access to one nutritious meal per day. And that meal is a hot school lunch.
And why is the First Lady preventing these suffering children from receiving a hot, filling and nutritious meal?

And on and on.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:21 AM (Z8FQp)

56 So does the alleged shortfall of $5300 to workers in right to work states take into consideration the union dues paid in states that require union membership for certain jobs? Asked another way, is the $5300 equivalent to the amount of dues that would be paid to the union?

I think that is where you will find the discrepancy and why the unions are actually pissed. They are not making $5300/per person/year in those states and realize the money lost - money their members would probably not actually see in any event as it is purloined into the union leadership pockets.

Posted by: Penfold at February 14, 2015 09:22 AM (LT7gV)

57 46 Someone remind me, was the genesis of public unions during the Kennedy era?

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:17 AM (9BRsg)

JFK legalized public sector unions with an executive order. However, someone say whoa, you can't do that. So the Democrat Congress passed a bill making them legal.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 09:22 AM (wlDny)

58 Imma optimistic person, but it's becoming more difficult. Between the illegals, gov't unions, (I interact with gov't unions on a daily basis at work) taxes and stupid policies coming out of both parties in DC, not sure there is much hope left for us.

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2015 09:22 AM (Buxty)

59 I want Cruz to be POTUS. If he runs I'm all in.
Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:19 AM (rRnrU)

Me too, but he does not seem to be getting that much support and Iowa and New Hampshire are not good places for him to build support. Out Primary system sucks

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:22 AM (rDqRv)

60 52 I want Cruz to be POTUS. If he runs I'm all in.


This. A lot, this! Every time I hear this man speak I want to have his babies. I WANT THIS GUY!!!

Posted by: madamemayhem at February 14, 2015 09:23 AM (WPm3x)

61 Cruze opposes amnesty but does want to expand H-1B visas dramatically and :

"Besides barring citizenship while instituting some level of legalization for those here already, Mr. Cruz has proposed increasing the number of green cards awarded annually, to 1.35 million from 675,000. He also wants to eliminate the per-country limit that he said left applicants from countries like Mexico, China and India hamstrung when they tried to gain legal entry to this country." (Texas Tribune via NYT)

Small steps...

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:23 AM (z27Ny)

62 43 And when you couple it with any hint of "let's give legal status to millions of illegals" it really paints a picture of the GOP being hostile to U.S. workers.
==========================

Different subject, and a much better subject. Are we talking immigration or state PEU and RTW laws?

I agree it's good background info for governors, going to strength of character and ability to govern, but I just don't see how this issue is a national issue in a Presidential campaign.

Posted by: MTF at February 14, 2015 09:23 AM (FCsIb)

63 In the Chicago area there are generations of Dem voters who spent their working lives in the trade unions and nothing anyone says or does will convince them to vote otherwise. I don't see Gov. Rauner changing much in Crook County, let alone in the city. Strong unions have owned the area too long.

Posted by: dartist at February 14, 2015 09:23 AM (ahBY0)

64 >>Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:21 AM

Yeah, good points.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:25 AM (9BRsg)

65 One of these days the money will run out and then all of these issues will melt together into a single blob of Doom.

Posted by: eman at February 14, 2015 09:26 AM (MQEz6)

66 To continue meme building...

When a neighbor complains about having to take their school age child for shots, suggest that they tell the school that the children are here illegally.
No shots required.

When a potential College student complains about the high cost of Out of State tuition, suggest that they claim illegal Immigrant status, and only pay In State Resident rates.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:27 AM (Z8FQp)

67 59 Me too, but he does not seem to be getting that much
support and Iowa and New Hampshire are not good places for him to build
support. Out Primary system sucks

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:22 AM (rDqRv)


And that's the way the RNCe wants it. They do not give a flying damn for the base. They are in it for themselves and their masters in big buisness. IOW the money men. That is why people like RUBIO and Jeb are getting all the money.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 09:28 AM (wlDny)

68 VIA some good memes there.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:28 AM (sgrGo)

69 You worry about how the Dems will demagogue the right to work issue? I'm not that concerned. If a governor can enact RTW here in Michigan, the birthplace of unionism, and cruise to re-election I don't think it will be a major issue nation-wide.

Posted by: Gary at February 14, 2015 09:29 AM (NNfS2)

70 Cont:

When a neighbor gossips about the drunk down the street finally losing his license after his third DUI, suggest that all he has to do is go to the MVA, tell them that he's an illegal Immigrant, and needs a drivers license so that he can take his six undocumented, un-vaccinated children to elementary school, to get their free breakfast and lunches because they qualify for the free meal program.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:30 AM (Z8FQp)

71 63 -

Rauner also doesn't have an "R" legislature like I believe Walker did, his is D and solidly D. He stepped in it this week with the union move, the comptroller and attorney general say it isn't legal. I think he needs to plan first to make sure he can actually pull off his ideas, or else he'll end up marginalized.

Like any R candidate, he will be fighting the press as well as the opposition, especially here in Illinois.

Posted by: ChicagoLurker at February 14, 2015 09:31 AM (mQacj)

72 In related news, the head of the NC SEIU affiliate has 'resigned' after it is revealed that he has been engaged in what appears to be embezzlement, and some sweetheart deals. His statement was typical smarmy crap:

"In recent days, I've come to realize that, in carrying out the duties of my job, I have blurred the line between my personal life and my professional life," Dana Cope said.


Right. "Blurred the lines" between union money and his own money. That seems to happen a lot to union execs...., and politicians.

Article : http://tinyurl.com/pmukgy4

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 14, 2015 09:31 AM (F2IAQ)

73 Ted Cruz "On The Issues".


End Obama's illegal amnesty via Congress' checks balances. (Nov 2014)


Defund amnesty; and refuse any nominees until rescinded. (Nov 2014)


No path to citizenship for 1.65 million illegals in Texas. (Oct 2012)



Give police more power to ask about immigration status. (Jun 2012)


Boots on the ground, plus a wall. (Apr 2012)


Triple the size of the Border Patrol. (Mar 2012)


Strengthen border security and increase enforcement. (Jul 2011)

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 09:31 AM (wlDny)

74 And I do not think the Fat Man has done such a good job in NJ.


Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 08:49 AM (wlDny)
NO anti public sector union advocate will succeed against the democrats who control the state legislature. Just ain't gonna happen. No governor, no matter how hard he or she tries, will ever get rid of the public sector unions in NJ. The democrat machine is too powerful and is too deeply entrenched. Has been for many, many years. Our county is very Republican, but we're offset by Newark, Jersey City, Hoboken, Camden, etc, etc. Guess who those cities prefer to be in power in Trenton?

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at February 14, 2015 09:32 AM (TPimP)

75 What is more illegal:

1. To be an illegal immigrant
2. To be a legal resident but say you are an illegal immigrant to pay lower tuition, etc.

Which will have the more severe penalty?

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:32 AM (z27Ny)

76 One of these days the money will run out and then all of these issues will melt together into a single blob of Doom.
Posted by: eman at February 14, 2015 09:26 AM (MQEz6)


Tell me about it

Posted by: Detroit at February 14, 2015 09:32 AM (rDqRv)

77
Someone remind me, was the genesis of public unions during the Kennedy era?

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:17 AM (9BRsg)
Yes, Kennedy signed this....
http://tinyurl.com/ku3ela4

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:33 AM (0FSuD)

78 Unlike many I'm pro-immigration. But I'm more pro secure borders and far more pro full employment. Under the Obama/GOPe economy we've only created 3.5 million new jobs since Jan 2009, but Obama has illegally granted 5.5 million work permits to immigrants.

Open borders means al Qaeda walks across the border openly. It means disease that kills children and, mostly, it has meant unemployment for workers.

Being pro-immigration is one thing. Being open borders is another entirely, and Obama is open borders.

Posted by: MTF at February 14, 2015 09:34 AM (FCsIb)

79 @72

Yeah Mike his lame excuses were just that lame.



He should get indicted. Made out a check to a consulting firm with a name similar to his landscape contractor and contractor cashed it!

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:34 AM (0FSuD)

80 Give police more power to ask about immigration status. (Jun 2012)
>> If you legalize everyone why will it matter?

No path to citizenship for 1.65 million illegals in Texas. (Oct 2012)
>> But they all get to stay and lower wages?

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:35 AM (z27Ny)

81 Unions exist for one reason:

Enable the worker to work less for more money.


Which is the exact polar opposite that you want in a public employee-

who for the most part are doing low to middle wage jobs(in the private sector) such as clerking.


There is simply no need for "the best and brightest" for these jobs-

their wages and benefits need to be cut to the bone

and the military pyramidal structure along with "advance or out" needs to be adopted.


Public unions stand between the gov't and the people the govt serve and should be eliminated.



Posted by: naturalfake at February 14, 2015 09:35 AM (KBvAm)

82 SO

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (rDqRv)

83 It's ironic that the unions are part of the monied progressive and yes, corporate, powerful "elite" that they publicly rail so much against. Then fat pigs like Trumka line their pockets at the expense of the rank and file.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (AVWYi)

84 @69

I agree. RTW is the future. States that don't have it will lose there manufacturing jobs.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (0FSuD)

85 Then fat pigs like Trumka line their pockets at the expense of the rank and file.
Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (AVWYi)


Trumka is the poster boy for what is wrong with Amierca

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:37 AM (rDqRv)

86 84 I agree. RTW is the future. States that don't have it will lose there manufacturing jobs.


Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (0FSuD)

Northern jobs have been moving South for decades now. And unions are the primary reason for that.

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 09:37 AM (wlDny)

87 Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (rDqRv)



So, how was the "kosher" lobster and did it lead to a "Kosher" BJ?


ha ha

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:37 AM (0FSuD)

88 Give police more power to ask about immigration status. (Jun 2012)

Eh... If that means more of these bullshit random checkpoints 100 miles inland, no thanks.

Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2015 09:38 AM (AVWYi)

89 I agree. RTW is the future. States that don't have it will lose there manufacturing jobs.
Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:36 AM (0FSuD)
-----
That has been happening for a while now and will continue.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:38 AM (z27Ny)

90 So, how was the "kosher" lobster and did it lead to a "Kosher" BJ?

Isn't a kosher BJ when she says "Oh my GAWD, I'm not putting that in my mouth!"

Posted by: Insomniac at February 14, 2015 09:39 AM (AVWYi)

91 changing much in Crook County, let alone in the city. Strong unions have owned the area too long.

This, I no longer discuss unions with my brother who retired from the union in Cook County, NV. Some big wig teamsters and afl-cia dudes were at the retirement party. I did not acknowledge them.

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2015 09:39 AM (Buxty)

92 "Which will have the more severe penalty?"

Good point.

Interact with people based upon the assumption that they are rational (Moonbats aren't but just pretend) , and want to be treated fairly.

Personalize the economic loss and health risk to the individual.
Show the unfairness of these things.
Ask them how they can sit back and allow minorities to be treated as second class citizens, assumed to be too stupid, weak and unable to provide for themselves, instead of assuming that most minorities only wish to be treated as more then 3/5's of a person.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:40 AM (Z8FQp)

93 Like any R candidate, he will be fighting the press as well as the opposition, especially here in Illinois.

Yep, and from talking to friends, it seems the labor unions are hurting for new members. My brother is a bricklayer and is worried about his pension being supported by Polish immigrants and Mexicans who have replaced Italian, Irish and Germans of the past. It's only a matter of time for the holes in labor to be filled with illegals, if it hasn't started already. American kids these days don't seem to want to work that hard.

Posted by: dartist at February 14, 2015 09:40 AM (ahBY0)

94 Sophia Loren in a western on AMC. Good God that woman is hot. I demand my RTW on her. (there - I made it on-topic)

Posted by: goatexchange at February 14, 2015 09:41 AM (aHZiv)

95 36 In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states

Wait, isn't that, the tax payers get $6K more value in the RtoW states?

Posted by: Jean at February 14, 2015 09:42 AM (ztOda)

96 American kids these days don't seem to want to work that hard.
----
Or learn Spanish.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:42 AM (z27Ny)

97 A kosher BJ? Is that like the famous Jewish wine?



"I want to go to Miami"?

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:42 AM (0FSuD)

98 >>There is simply no need for "the best and brightest" for these jobs-

I disagree. I want my government services run efficiently and well.

The core problem with unions is that they prevent employers from promoting the best and brightest and from firing the deadwood.

They are a singularly unAmerican concept because the decouple performance and effort from a person's marketability/employability.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:43 AM (9BRsg)

99 A feel good story from HA.



http://tinyurl.com/pqmm3yj

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 09:44 AM (0FSuD)

100 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:40 AM (Z8FQp)
------
Instead Republicans will sway the working class with calls for a reduction in capital gains tax rates and cuts in Social Security.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:45 AM (z27Ny)

101 Frankly, if the GOP is successfully painted as being hostile to the American worker, we will lose big in 2016.

The whole immigration fiasco is tailor-made for the Republicans to have a wave election in 2016.

The illegal immigrants can be shown to be driving down wages of the poor and lower classes..
Big companies can be proven to want more H1B workers to drive down middle class wages and increase unemployment.

Green policies enacted by the Dims can be proven to drive up costs of energy and food and harm the American worker.

Everyone hates Obamacare which can be proven to increase unemployment, underemployment and drive down wages of the American worker and take away discretionary income.

There is so much low-hanging fruit out there it is simply jaw-dropping.


The Republican candidates are being waved off of this train of thought so vigorously that-

I'm waiting for the Democrat candidate to show up who will tie this all together and run all the way to the White House.

It will all be a lie, of course, but lie or not- they will ride it to the White House.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 14, 2015 09:46 AM (KBvAm)

102 cio. Geez.

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2015 09:47 AM (Buxty)

103 93 -

I own a small business, and it is frustrating to hire new staff. We've been lucky with a few superstar workers, but the majority of respondents are just pitiful. A few years ago we had a contract that required either hiring from a low income labor pool or paying a percentage of the contract to fulfill it. I thought hiring would be better, and that we could assimilate anyone into our great company culture - wrong. The person told her manager she would rather be sitting at home watching tv then working, and proceeded to file our first wc claim in 12 years of business.

I've learned my lesson, now we just pay the percentage. It's sad, the purpose of the program is to help people get jobs so they don't need assistance, but they only apply so they can keep their assistance.


Posted by: ChicagoLurker at February 14, 2015 09:48 AM (mQacj)

104 Reuters is reporting the Iranians sent Obama a letter finally. And on Valentines Day too. So much love there.

Posted by: MTF at February 14, 2015 09:48 AM (FCsIb)

105 Instead Republicans will sway the working class with calls for a reduction in capital gains tax rates and cuts in Social Security.
---

Hey, we passed that law that allows you to donate 100s of thousands of dollars to our political party. What more do you want? Ingrates!

Posted by: GOPe at February 14, 2015 09:49 AM (9BRsg)

106 Happy Valentine's Day horde.

Happy Ending 2 for 1 Special at Hectors House of Gloryholes.

Act fast as his tummy fills up quickly.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at February 14, 2015 09:49 AM (Kbuxa)

107 So, how was the "kosher" lobster

The Lobster was outstanding.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 09:49 AM (rDqRv)

108 I own a small business, and it is frustrating to hire new staff. We've been lucky with a few superstar workers, but the majority of respondents are just pitiful.
----

Bone up on your Spanish.

You're welcome!

Posted by: GOPe at February 14, 2015 09:50 AM (9BRsg)

109 101 -

You're right, if an R would step up and talk about closing the border before any other immigration reform was discussed, and listed the reasons you did, that would be an issue independents, Rs and some democrats could get behind. With my liberal friends, immigration and unions are issues where we actually agree - they get that what's in place is weaking the American worker.

Posted by: ChicagoLurker at February 14, 2015 09:52 AM (mQacj)

110 It's true that immigrants, whether legal or illegal, will be self-selected to be more hard-working and ambitious than an entitled underclass which has been on welfare for generations.
The difference is that an illegal immigrant is one who has no respect for law, while a legal immigrant believes in obeying laws.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:54 AM (skjs0)

111 I know that it is frequently claimed that "big corporations" are in favor of illegal immigration in order to keep wages down. What big corporation hires illiterate, poorly trained workers? Most illegals in Krazyfornia seem to work in construction and menial labor jobs, as well as hotel/restaurant sector.

Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade at February 14, 2015 09:54 AM (cmBvC)

112 There is simply no need for "the best and brightest" for these jobs-

I disagree. I want my government services run efficiently and well.

The core problem with unions is that they prevent employers from promoting the best and brightest and from firing the deadwood.

They are a singularly unAmerican concept because the decouple performance and effort from a person's marketability/employability.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:43 AM (9BRsg)


Eh, we probably don't disagree.

By, we don't need the "best and brightest", I mean we don't need a Harvard MBA in these posts.

These are primarily clerking and low level middle man jobs - the kind of work that pegs out at about $50K max in the private sector.

Yes, we need the most efficient in these jobs-

that's why I mentioned a severe pyramidal structure like the military, and-

an "advance or out" policy like the military, i.e.. the spaces are increasingly limited as you advance and if you don't advance, you're out until you've amassed say 13 yrs on the job.

Posted by: naturalfake at February 14, 2015 09:54 AM (KBvAm)

113 Get your people to the polls. Get your opponents negatives up so their people won't go to the polls.

That is the entire recipe for victory in our system.

Posted by: toby928(C) at February 14, 2015 09:55 AM (rwI+c)

114 Most illegals in Krazyfornia seem to work in construction and menial labor jobs, as well as hotel/restaurant sector.
Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade at February 14, 2015 09:54 AM (cmBvC)
------
Which is where the jobs are. Manufacturing is declining (relatively) and energy employment will be collapsing again.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (z27Ny)

115 The difference is that an illegal immigrant is one who has no respect for law, while a legal immigrant believes in obeying laws.


So is the JEF legal or illegal?

Posted by: Infidel at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (Buxty)

116 All right, I'll bite... How is a kosher lobster different from any other one? AFAIK, one lobster is much the same as all the rest. Is it cooked differently?

Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (ThxKk)

117 >>that's why I mentioned a severe pyramidal structure like the military

Interesting.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (9BRsg)

118 111 Agriculture does depend on illegal immigrant labor.
Other big companies keep asking for H1-B visas, which is a way to pay lower wages without fear of employee leaving. It's a form of indenture.

Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:57 AM (PSvWu)

119 I do think that government entities should expect to pay market value for their employees at whatever rank the employee, from secretary on up.

I've seen some that think that they can always pay less than market value and then act surprised when they have poor performers in the jobs and when the few good people leave after a couple of years for better jobs.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 09:58 AM (9BRsg)

120 The construction and hotel/restaurant sectors are large, and especially in the hospitality industry small changes in wages could bring about large cuts to profits and/or increased costs to consumers.

A low wage work force makes them successful - and it is also a good place to start to work your way up. The traditional first job, most likely part time. But it isn't worth $15.00 hour, like pandering politicians seem to think.

Posted by: ChicagoLurker at February 14, 2015 09:58 AM (mQacj)

121 How is a kosher lobster different from any other one?
----
They are fed exclusively on kosher shit and kosher shellfish (?), of course.

Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:58 AM (z27Ny)

122 When a minority mother mentions to you that her boy is unable to find even a low paying job to start out, point out that this Administration would rather allow illegals here to work cheaper then her son could.
The Administration is screwing over her son.

And say what you wish, most parents that I know, regardless of ethnicity want there to be some hope that their children will have the opportunity to succeed.
And they can directly relate when you point out that they children are being treated unfairly.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 09:59 AM (Z8FQp)

123 I retired from both the military and from the civil service, and I can tell you that the lack of 'up or out' in the latter results is horrendous waste, in productivity, merit-based functionality, effectiveness, and efficiency. I don't mind allowing some individuals 'coast' for a couple years, once they hit their level of incompetence; but in civil service that often means clogging up the works for 10-20+ years. it will never get fixed, but I would vote instantly for any candidate who at least acknowledged it.

Posted by: goatexchange at February 14, 2015 10:00 AM (aHZiv)

124 Hotels and casinos are big business.

I have no idea what the tech firms are thinking except that perhaps the Silicon Valley ones realize that the communities their employees live in are collapsing b/c they've priced regular Joes who provide services out of the market. I think I read years ago that Silicon Valley has trouble with things like firemen and teachers. So maybe the tech guys are thinking of that, in addition to wanting more H1Bs for coders from India.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:00 AM (9BRsg)

125 Should I denounce Holder for investigating Hate Crime in the NC shooting, for the consistency, or be happy for the Blue on Blue aspect of hate criming a progressive atheist friend of Barack?

Posted by: toby928(C) at February 14, 2015 10:03 AM (rwI+c)

126 "I've seen some that think that they can always pay less than market value and then act surprised when they have poor performers in the jobs and when the few good people leave after a couple of years for better jobs.'

On the flip side, I have seen Unions provide protection for sub-optimum performers, allowing them to not only remain employed, but in many cases, continue to receive promotions based purely on the threat of EO suits being filed if they don't get promoted.
It's one reason why Government employment has become a self licking ice cream cone of advancement not based on merit, but on risk of legal action if not promoted.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:03 AM (Z8FQp)

127 Bone up on your Spanish.

You're welcome!


That's the funny thing. A legalizing illegals makes them just as expensive (wages, benefits, accounting, regulations) to hire as an American. Hiring illegals keeps their costs down. Don't know why they say they want amnesty.

Posted by: t-bird at February 14, 2015 10:04 AM (FcR7P)

128 All right, I'll bite... How is a kosher lobster different from any other one? AFAIK, one lobster is much the same as all the rest. Is it cooked differently?
Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (ThxKk)


It's a joke so us less than perfect Jews can eat Lobster and rationalize it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 10:05 AM (rDqRv)

129 116
All right, I'll bite... How is a kosher lobster different from any other
one? AFAIK, one lobster is much the same as all the rest. Is it cooked
differently?


Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at February 14, 2015 09:56 AM (ThxKk)


Tribe joke from yesterday. Lobster is NOT kosher but Nevermind convicted us/himself his was going to be.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 10:05 AM (0FSuD)

130 On the flip side, I have seen Unions provide protection for sub-optimum performers, allowing them to not only remain employed, but in many cases, continue to receive promotions based purely on the threat of EO suits being filed if they don't get promoted.
---

Yes, that's absolutely the case.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:06 AM (9BRsg)

131 Never give up, Never mind. Too many negative vibes here.

Posted by: Odd Job at February 14, 2015 10:06 AM (0FSuD)

132 Posted by: RioBravo at February 14, 2015 09:58 AM (z27Ny)

... I guess that's what I get for turning the politics thread into the food thread. At least I know my BS meter is still (sort of) working.

Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at February 14, 2015 10:06 AM (ThxKk)

133 Not all public organizations have unionized employees.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:08 AM (9BRsg)

134 Tribe joke from yesterday. Lobster is NOT kosher but Nevermind convicted us/himself his was going to be.


Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 10:05 AM (0FSuD)
Gotcha. I missed it b/c I wasn't here yesterday. I'm starting to think I'm the walking definition of 'late to the punchline'.

Posted by: right wing whippersnapper at February 14, 2015 10:09 AM (ThxKk)

135 127

That's what I don't understand, either. Maybe the thought is to put them in part time positions and don't offer benefits, but you still have the taxes and regulations to deal with.

Whatever the thinking is, it's destined to screw-over people who work hard and follow the rules.

Posted by: ChicagoLurker at February 14, 2015 10:09 AM (mQacj)

136 Should I denounce Holder for...

Are there so few racists available to the Democrats that he's too big to let go? Resign already! Retire to a nice villa on the Mexican border.

Posted by: t-bird at February 14, 2015 10:13 AM (FcR7P)

137 Now that dems have the first bisexual governor, I say they should get one that likes getting off to a horse and dog, in double penetration. PROGRESS!

Posted by: Middle Class at February 14, 2015 10:14 AM (TzeLs)

138 IDF medics treating wounded Syrians battle mental toll
Ever since Israel opened its border to Syrians wounded in the country's civil war, the IDF has provided medical aid to thousands, many in serious condition; medics say traumatic scenes have taken their toll, causing mental anguish.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4626448,00.html

The difference between Israel and Isis

Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 14, 2015 10:18 AM (rDqRv)

139 "Now that dems have the first bisexual governor,"

She couldn't get in trouble if she were caught in bed with a live girl, or a live boy.
Or, a live girl, and a live boy.

Hairy Reid approves.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:18 AM (Z8FQp)

140 Are there so few racists available to the Democrats that he's too big to let go? Resign already! Retire to a nice villa on the Mexican border.
Posted by: t-bird
-----------------

First, they have to find someone pliable, bereft of any sense of devotion to the Constitution, and philosophically devoted to the Left. In other words, Lynch.

I'm hoping that others will join me in communicating *directly* to their representatives that she is a 'hell no!'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 14, 2015 10:19 AM (F2IAQ)

141 A friend had posted a pic of a McDonalds menu board from 1972 or so. She wished that the prices could be that low now. She is also one that wants minimum wage hikes for fast food workers now. I worked at Mcds back then. We were paid $1.10 per hour because we were considered restaurant workers, and therefore could get tips. We did not get tips. We did get 15 cents an hour food allowance though. I think minimum was 1.60 at the time. Put that into the inflation calc and $1.60 is now equal to 9.06. A 40 cent Big mac then is 2.25 now.

Posted by: Bruce at February 14, 2015 10:22 AM (8ikIW)

142 " In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states."

Typical statistical sleight of hand. When CA, MA, NY, IL, etc are on the blue side of that map, one would expert the wages to skew higher in terms of basic dollars.

How about we compare right-to-work states with union sharecropper states in terms of real dollars (e.g. factor in purchasing power of those salaries)?

Economic illiteracy is the foundation of the socialist/Democratic project.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 14, 2015 10:23 AM (QKIQb)

143 " In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states."

And of course, women are paid even less than that.

Posted by: Bruce at February 14, 2015 10:24 AM (8ikIW)

144

31 That's entirely too much research for me to do. Hows about the horde figure it out for me and let me know. I trust your political judgment...
Posted by: Talibill at February 14, 2015 09:08 AM (JiHh6)





Teh Horde

Good Judgement

*snort*

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 14, 2015 10:26 AM (OMTVG)

145 When I worked at McD's it was a $1 hour. They didn't even have a fish sandwich yet, and Blacks were very rare customers, except on Sunday after church.


It was a big deal to go to McD's. No seating all take out. Man, some of those ladies could dress up for church.



Not ONE Black employee. We made our own fries. Peeled them, blanched them and cooked them in LARD!



Damn they were good. Cleanest place I ever worked. My home's floor is not as clean as the McD. They would throw away every burger in the bin if they were over five minutes old. That's a lot of food.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 10:27 AM (0FSuD)

146 Going forward, a key task is destroying Government Unions. Especially attacking their money spigot.

The Left big goal is to add to the roles of Government Unions -- a huge reason they want to Socialized and Nationalized Medicine. They're ultimate goal is to have every hospital admin and nurse be in Government Union and paying monthly dues to the Democrat Party.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at February 14, 2015 10:27 AM (ZPrif)

147 "" In fact, workers in states with these laws earn an average of $5,971 less a year than workers in other states."

I'm not going to take further time to debunk union propaganda, but if I were so inclined, I'd also take a look at what they call "workers."

I might even take a look at how they're defining "state" and "year."

Look for the union label - and particularly at what it's covering up.


Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at February 14, 2015 10:28 AM (QKIQb)

148 They would throw away every burger in the bin if they were over five minutes old. That's a lot of food.
Posted by: Nip Sip
------------------

Damn good eats, back then.

Posted by: Landfill microbes at February 14, 2015 10:29 AM (F2IAQ)

149 Say a prayer for Gov. Rauner. Illinois, that's a tough nut to crack.

BTW as a former public employee, I would like to say that we all hated the union because they stole from us to elect people who were ruining the state. It's the leadership that's the problem.

Posted by: PJ at February 14, 2015 10:30 AM (cHuNI)

150
Now that we're well over 100 posts......

Cake for breakfast

Pie for dinner

Discuss

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 14, 2015 10:30 AM (OMTVG)

151 With the huge wins of Repubs across state legislatures, you'd think we'd see some more states flip to Right to Work.

Interesting that Walker has not pulled the trigger on that in Wisconsin.

Reforming Government Union is a more pressing task, of course. I think he waited to not have that fight during a presidential run. I expect if he loses the nomination that he'll then make Wisconsin Right to Work.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at February 14, 2015 10:31 AM (ZPrif)

152 Agriculture does depend on illegal immigrant labor.

Other big companies keep asking for H1-B visas, which is a way to
pay lower wages without fear of employee leaving. It's a form of
indenture.
Posted by: @votermom DIY or die! at February 14, 2015 09:57 AM (PSvWu)


Ag visas, the H2B visas, have some serious teeth as to how to treat the migrant workers. There is specific language in the seasonal and migrant legislation that directs how they are to be housed and compensated. the H1B not so much, I understand.

Talking with pear producers I was told that the learning curve for teaching H2B's how to pick an use ladders really was a crapshoot. It really takes about a year to get a picker up to speed. It is a better deal to hire the guys who have actual experience instead of training them.
The benefit is that the farmers do provide migrant housing but the workers can earn at least minimum wage where the H2B's have a slightly higher floor for earning and they generally bring themselves and take themselves away when the work is done.
A lot of the big growers rely on professional migrants on the West coast.

Posted by: Kindletot (from a remote) at February 14, 2015 10:31 AM (H5Txy)

153 I ate a lot of those thrown away Big Macs, thanks to gf McD's worker. Got me through college, along with similar from KFC, when she changed jobs.

Posted by: goatexchange at February 14, 2015 10:31 AM (aHZiv)

154 "Discuss"

What's to discuss?
It's perfect as written.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:32 AM (Z8FQp)

155 Cake for breakfast

Pie for dinner

---

Ice cream for lunch.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:32 AM (9BRsg)

156 It's the leadership that's the problem.
Posted by: PJ
-------------------

The media.
Because they are so committed to the Leftist march that they fail to publicize the inherent flaws in political/social/economic agenda of the politicians.

Posted by: Landfill microbes at February 14, 2015 10:33 AM (F2IAQ)

157 "Ice cream for lunch."

Ok...ok


NOW, it's perfect as written.


*As long as we don't stray into sexual activity as a menu item*

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:34 AM (Z8FQp)

158 nood

Posted by: Vic at February 14, 2015 10:34 AM (wlDny)

159 @148

The most expensive thing? a $.20 cheeseburger. The manager said that one cent cheese slice made them millions. Shakes were 20 cents and it you were big you could get a double cheeseburger. I think it was 35 cents.



Who would ever have thought that integrating a McD's would have been a big deal in the 60's?



It was. I finally got sort of let go. The manager had a hard time with my ability to add up the order before he could. I was always right, he? No so much.

Posted by: Nip Sip at February 14, 2015 10:34 AM (0FSuD)

160 Honestly Trump is more likely to run for President than Haley or Martinez. But he won't go anywhere.

As much as I have said Walker-Haley, I would not be surprised if the party hacks trying to put together a perfect ticket go with Martinez.

Posted by: blaster at February 14, 2015 10:35 AM (Rx8ML)

161 The media.
Because they are so committed to the Leftist march that they fail to publicize the inherent flaws in political/social/economic agenda of the politicians.
Posted by: Landfill microbes
------------------------

Locally, in the last month, the paper has published lead editorials crowing about ghey marriage, solar power, and biofuels. Now there is some stuff that will put us to the road to prosperity!

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 14, 2015 10:35 AM (F2IAQ)

162 It was. I finally got sort of let go. The manager had a hard time with my ability to add up the order before he could. I was always right, he? No so much.
Posted by: Nip Sip
-----------------

First McD's that I recall was over on Independence Blvd., not too far from the Coliseum.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 14, 2015 10:37 AM (F2IAQ)

163 The key is not to look hostile to Unions but emphasize the freedom to voluntarily leave or join a Union.

Even rank and file Union members (which is an incredibly small amount of the workforce) have large swaths of members that would like the freedom to leave if they wanted to. It's a way to vote with their feet.

Posted by: Kal at February 14, 2015 10:38 AM (13G+x)

164
154 "Discuss"

What's to discuss?
It's perfect as written.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:32 AM (Z8FQp)






Well that's disconcerting. I was trying to stir up shit this morning, so I could slink away and giggle while Teh Horde argued.

I am depressed.

Yeah, I'm feeling ornery today.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 14, 2015 10:38 AM (OMTVG)

165 The key is not to look hostile to Unions but emphasize the freedom to voluntarily leave or join a Union.
--

Yes, I agree.

Also be prepared to counter with simple, easy to understand examples how GOP policies create jobs and GOOD jobs for U.S. workers.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:41 AM (9BRsg)

166 >>Yeah, I'm feeling ornery today.

CROSSBOWS!

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:43 AM (9BRsg)

167 "CROSSBOWS!"

Seles fire...for the win!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:45 AM (Z8FQp)

168 Seles=select
Fcuking auto-mispell

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at February 14, 2015 10:45 AM (Z8FQp)

169 Speaking of fast food restaurant jobs, nice story over at The Blaze:

http://linkis.com/www.theblaze.com/sto/EJEx6

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 10:46 AM (9BRsg)

170 Right to work is pro worker.
The biggest issue in most states is public unions, and most citizens recognize the huge and unfair burden laid on "the children" because of dirty deals.

Teachers or others that retired at 55 with golden deals, many of which would have been fired except for their union protection, will scream bloody murder and chant "collective bargaining" our right to assemble or something.

But we know the deals are coercion, quid pro quo, corrupt. Collective bargaining should be called "collective coercion", and "solidarity" is also known as "racketeering". The children were taxed without representation, and the whole deal was a fraud.

Another approach is to break the monopoly they have, and argue about their skirting the anti-trust laws other large corporations fall under. Chicago Public Schools union shut down their schools pre-election and got whatever they wanted despite poor performance, for pure political reasons ... simply because they are a monopoly. It's insane how they rob the taxpayer and "abuse" the kids with their Ayers like leftist crap.

Posted by: Illiniwek at February 14, 2015 11:04 AM (m2kvo)

171 Has anybody thought about reviving private sponsorship for immigrants? You know, allowing immigration if somebody already here will take financial responsibility if the immigrants flake out?

The lack of assimilation becomes a problem because the majority of our immigrants come from countries where the populace is comfortable with the idea of government patronage. Attaching immigrants to citizens could weaken that expectation.

Posted by: KT at February 14, 2015 12:56 PM (qahv/)

172 Another problem is when "private sector" unions become partly public sector through political clout. See Obama's special deal for UAW but not for other unions in the GM bailout.

Union leaders can be just as aristocratic as big business leaders.

Posted by: KT at February 14, 2015 01:02 PM (qahv/)

173 >>Posted by: KT at February 14, 2015 12:56 PM

I think there still is the sponsorship program or maybe a different one from the one you mean. The one I know about involves the employer and if the worker flakes out, s/he loses their work permit. I can't recall if they have a window of time to find a new sponsor or whatever, though.

I confess I'm less worried about the tech workers coming in here b/c our STEM education is so crapola in this country there really don't seem to be enough qualified Americans in certain fields. But I do not get flooding the U.S. with unskilled illegals.

Posted by: Y-not at February 14, 2015 02:26 PM (9BRsg)

174 Good idea, Kal. The union goons would still freak out, but at least the public would understand the real issue.

Posted by: PJ at February 14, 2015 05:16 PM (cHuNI)

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