Freedom of Thought and Religion

Family friends recently returned from a visit to D.C., where the photo above was taken.

Northwest Portico
"Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens . . . are a departure from the plan of the holy Author of our religion . . . No man shall be compelled to frequent or support religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively."
-Excerpted from A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, drafted in 1777. First introduced in the Virginia General Assembly in 1779, after he had become Governor. Passed by the Virginia Assembly in 1786, while Jefferson was serving as Minister to France. The last sentence is excerpted from a letter to James Madison, August 28, 1789, as he was returning to America to assume his position as Secretary of State.

There seems to be some interest in religion in the news lately, with the Pope weighing in on the morality of war with Iran, conspiracy theories running amok and more . . .

Now that the hard work is over, another religious belief appears:

We did it. With Europeans in charge, Strait of Hormuz will be open in just 4-6 months, following a climate assesment and a summit in Davos https://t.co/ODfc8OEiDR
— Matthias Schmidt (@eurofounder) April 17, 2026

* * * * *

Is "Just War" the only moral consideration in dealing with Iran?

A lot of people were taken by surprise when the USA joined Israel in attacking Iran's leadership and defense industry. Lee Smith has an explanation in: The Return of the Echo Chamber - How the Obama-era communications infrastructure is working to rope Trump into the next JCPOA

Iran can’t have a nuclear bomb, says Donald Trump, so it can’t be allowed to enrich uranium—not now, not ever. Accordingly, former Barack Obama aides responded favorably to news that Vice President JD Vance told the Iranian delegation he met with in Pakistan last weekend that he was willing to erase his boss’s red line and offer Iran a deal that allows it to enrich after 20 years. . . .

Soon after the actions to take out Iran's existing bomb program, they massively increased their conventional weapons production. This is how they got to be suppliers of sophisticated drones to Russia, for example.

The JCPOA was designed to protect Iran’s nuclear weapons program until the regime could protect it itself. Thus, while the JCPOA put time-limited restrictions on the nuclear program, it undid restrictions on Iran’s conventional ballistic missiles program. This meant that by the time the restrictions on its nuclear activities expired, Iran would have an enormous arsenal of ballistic missiles to defend the nuclear program against Israel and any U.S. president willing to take military action to end it. As Iran’s conventional arsenal was approaching that point of no return, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came to see Trump in his Florida home at the end of December.

Whether or not to leave future generations to deal with an Iran thus armed was the question. Would the leaders of the country feel compelled at some point to bring chaos to the world (according to their theology) in order to allow for the return of the Hidden Imam?

* * * * *

The Pope does not think the current war is moral.

Grim at Grim's Hall:

Wretchard, or Richard Fernandez, says that he thinks you can't properly understand the discussion within the context of Just War Theory alone: you have to engage also the theory of Jihad, which is Iran's rather than ours.
Inevitably it requires us to consider not only what Christians believe but what the Islamic equivalent to Just War -- the doctrine of Jihad -- actually teaches. In many ways the two are as different as chalk and cheese. In the first place Christianity is a nonstate religion while Islam aims to be a “universal religion and a universal state”. . .

Daniel Greenfield: Pope Leo Ignores Christian and Jewish Genocide in Algeria

Alongside paying tribute to the 19 Martyrs of Algeria, beatified in 2018, priests, monks and nuns, including 7 beheaded monks and 2 nuns murdered on the way to mass, by Islamic terrorists who later received amnesty for their crimes from the Algerian government, Pope Leo also paid tribute to the Jihadis at their memorial.
Pope Leo visited Algeria’s so-called Martyrs’ Monument, “Maqam Echahid,” located above the El Mujahid or Jihadi Museum, erected by former Islamic-Socialist terrorist dictator Houari Boumédiène who had headed the ALN, one of whose specialties was the “Smile of Kabylie” in which the tongue was pulled through a slit throat, and which was responsible for the Oran Massacre of Christians and Jews that ethnically cleansing a formerly non-Muslim city.
Women and children had their throats cut by Muslim mobs bent on slaughter. 250,000 non-Muslims had lived in Oran. After the massacres, over 200,000 survivors fled, told that they had a choice between a “suitcase and a coffin”.

Praising the Arab Muslim terrorists who had set out to eliminate Christianity from Algeria, the pontiff declared that “they lost their lives but in doing so, they gave them up for the love of their own people. May their example sustain the people of Algeria and all of us on our journey, for true freedom is not merely inherited, it is chosen anew every day.”
The “love of their own people” was based on a fervent hatred of all non-Muslims, acted out through horrible atrocities, including the deliberate murder of children.

As one Catholic put it, pray both for the Pope and for Trump.

(And watch out for weird attempts to separate Catholics and Protestants politically.)

* * * * *

Weekend

The Week In Pictures: Swalwell Meets the Pope Edition

It was quite a week. The Democrats decided they needed to get rid of a candidate in the crowded field for Governor of California, and the fall guy was Eric Swalwell. It turned out that the Democrats and their reporters had known all along that Swalwell was a sexual predator, but until now it wasn’t opportune to mention it.
President Trump posted an AI-generated image of himself as Jesus, or maybe just as a doctor, healing someone. That prompted howls of outrage from the people who are always howling in outrage, and an extraordinary outpouring of memes showing Trump and others as Jesus, or just as healers.
Speaking of Jesus, the Pope tried to intervene in the midterm elections on behalf of the Democrats–he was a Chicago lefty before he became Pope–and President Trump didn’t take it lying down. The memesters were generally on Trump’s side.
In more positive news, Artemis returned to Earth and, as the week drew to a close, the Strait of Hormuz re-opened and an agreement with Iran seemed to be on the horizon.

* * * * *

Music

From Don in Kansas

* * * * *

Hope you have something nice planned for this weekend.

This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.

Serving your mid-day open thread needs

* * * * *

Last week's thread, April 11, Old Civilizations, Wonderful Things

Comments are closed so you won't ban yourself by trying to comment on a week-old thread. But don't try it anyway.

Posted by: K.T. at 11:29 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning KT

Posted by: Skip at April 18, 2026 11:30 AM (Ia/+0)

2 The Jefferson Memorial is too often skipped by DC tourists. It really ought to be #1.

Posted by: epador at April 18, 2026 11:34 AM (Ecic+)

3 Remember that after Islam.is in charge no other religions are allowed.

Posted by: Skip at April 18, 2026 11:35 AM (Ia/+0)

4 Starmer and Macron slapping each other on the back over their diplomatic victory in Iran is hilarious.

What a couple of comical midgets they are.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at April 18, 2026 11:35 AM (JkO4W)

5
*cranes neck*
*admires architecture*

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 18, 2026 11:35 AM (tgvbd)

6
Matthias Schmidt is a comic. His account is full of satire like that, but most xeeps miss it.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at April 18, 2026 11:35 AM (n7rxJ)

7 ""As one Catholic put it, pray both for the Pope and for Trump.""

Trump, yeah. As for the pope, he's on his own.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 18, 2026 11:36 AM (snZF9)

8 2 The Jefferson Memorial is too often skipped by DC tourists. It really ought to be #1.

----------

It remains the highest and best source for Stuff Jefferson Said.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at April 18, 2026 11:36 AM (JkO4W)

9 Thomas Jefferson isn't very high on Leftists list to learn about

Posted by: Skip at April 18, 2026 11:37 AM (Ia/+0)

10 My only complaint - come on Don in Kansas, okay sure that’s a good piece; but why not Magnum Opus from Leftoverture?

Posted by: Kerry Livgren at April 18, 2026 11:38 AM (yGQJD)

11 Europeans continue to demonstrate their delusions of their importance on the world's stage.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 11:38 AM (AkEZC)

12
I pray every day in my Rosary for the holy needs and intentions of the Pope.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 18, 2026 11:38 AM (tgvbd)

13 If you are of the faith, perhaps pray for Bob's conversion to Christianity.

Posted by: Glazing throat-cutting goatfuckers ain't Christlike at April 18, 2026 11:39 AM (TbWk/)

14
6
Matthias Schmidt is a comic. His account is full of satire like that, but most xeeps miss it.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at April 18, 2026 11:35 AM (n7rxJ)

Yes I’ve followed it. He’s hilarious! So close to the truth that many miss this.

Posted by: Tom Servo at April 18, 2026 11:39 AM (yGQJD)

15 My only complaint - come on Don in Kansas, okay sure that’s a good piece; but why not Magnum Opus from Leftoverture?

Posted by: Kerry Livgren at April 18, 2026 11:38 AM (yGQJD)

Because then Big Penguin™ will have assumed full control.

Posted by: 80s kids will get the joke at April 18, 2026 11:40 AM (TbWk/)

16 If you are of the faith, perhaps pray for Bob's conversion to Christianity.

Posted by: Glazing throat-cutting goatfuckers ain't Christlike at April 18, 2026 11:39 AM (TbWk/)

Been kinda praying for his conversion to fertilizer.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 18, 2026 11:40 AM (snZF9)

17
Europeans continue to demonstrate their delusions of their importance on the world's stage.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 11:38 AM (AkEZC)

__________

Like a pencil holder made from popsicle sticks glued onto a soup can by a young child. "Well, isn't that nice! Now, run along while we grown-ups talk."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 18, 2026 11:40 AM (tgvbd)

18
he was willing to erase his boss’s red line and offer Iran a deal that allows it to enrich after 20 years

================

Excuse me? I skimmed the article and that's exactly what happened. I feel like an idiot -- I missed this in the reporting.

Well, to hell with JD Vance. 20 years will be here before you know it.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (n7rxJ)

19 The Royal Navy hopes to have a seaplane tender to the Gulf of Oman by Christmas.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (JkO4W)

20 Someone should set this Pope down in one of those Clockwork Orange chairs that prop your eyes open, and force him to read the list of titular sees over and over and over again.

Not all of them are due to Muzzies, but most are.

Every one of them represents a Christian community that isn't there anymore.

https://tinyurl.com/sut42bcy

(note for morons who might not have had enough coffee yet: "titular see" has nothing to do with strip clubs)

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (IG3/x)

21 I don't know who Lee Smith is, but he seems very invested in making us view JD Vance with suspicion, and appears to take on faith the words of known Obama-aligned liars about what Vance wants, and about what has been said and done off-stage. Maybe there's something there - Vance could be "an excellent subordinate but an untrustworthy commander", but it feels more like trying to he's trying to poison the well. Is it just me?

Posted by: RandomDave at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (aJQbY)

22 I dunno... if that's what it takes to make the deal.

I think it most unlikely that the current regime in Iran will still be there in 20 years.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 18, 2026 11:43 AM (IG3/x)

23
And the holy needs and intentions of the Pope are sixfold.

1. The Exaltation of the Church
2. The Propagation of the Faith
3. The Extirpation of Heresy
4. The Conversion of Sinners
5. The Concord between Christian Princes
6. The Further Welfare of the Christian People

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 18, 2026 11:43 AM (tgvbd)

24 Like a pencil holder made from popsicle sticks glued onto a soup can by a young child. "Well, isn't that nice! Now, run along while we grown-ups talk."
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 18, 2026 11:40 AM (tgvbd)

Soup can? Popsicle sticks? PENCILS?! Luxury. Our parents made us use the charred fingerbones of our dead siblings, and to store them we were forced to swallow them and regurgitate them as needed.

Posted by: A Yorkshireman at April 18, 2026 11:44 AM (TbWk/)

25 3 Remember that after Islam.is in charge no other religions are allowed.

--

They may be allowed for a while, but they MUST be subordinate, preferably humiliated regularly. Never allowed into any sort of power.

Posted by: KT at April 18, 2026 11:45 AM (7vIsy)

26 (note for morons who might not have had enough coffee yet: "titular see" has nothing to do with strip clubs)
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (IG3/x)

see titulars > titular see

Posted by: Is now boob thread at April 18, 2026 11:45 AM (TbWk/)

27 >>I don't know who Lee Smith is

He's a smart guy very good writer. His book Disappearing the President about how the deep state tried to take Trump down is excellent.

I don't always agree with him. I don't always agree with me. But he's nobodies fool and his opinions are worth considering.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 18, 2026 11:48 AM (viF8m)

28
Speaking of Jesus, the Pope tried to intervene in the midterm elections on behalf of the Democrats–he was a Chicago lefty before he became Pope–and President Trump didn’t take it lying down.

I may be Catholic (lapsed), but I'm not interested in the opinions of some old commie priest wearing a dress and a funny hat.

Mind your own fucking business and stick to chanting in Latin, Pope.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 18, 2026 11:48 AM (y9nCu)

29 My favorite Jefferson quote:

"For I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 18, 2026 11:49 AM (IG3/x)

30 They may be allowed for a while, but they MUST be subordinate, preferably humiliated regularly. Never allowed into any sort of power.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2026 11:45 AM (7vIsy)
======

True, but you forgot the "taxed out the ying-yang" part.

Posted by: mrp at April 18, 2026 11:51 AM (rj6Yv)

31 The prayer thread became a Reformation II thread, and now the religious freedom thread has become a boob thread.

Can't wait so see what the book thread morphs into.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes. at April 18, 2026 11:51 AM (kpS4V)

32 That piano piece had me singing "God rest ye merry gentlemen let nothing you dismay".

Posted by: Dark Litigator at April 18, 2026 11:51 AM (W5mpo)

33 The the founder of the democrap party's memorial will have to be destroyed for our new illegal criminal invaders sensibilities the next time the democrap party is in power.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserious at April 18, 2026 11:54 AM (xvV+O)

34 Can't wait so see what the book thread morphs into.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes. at April 18, 2026 11:51 AM (kpS4V)
====

I'm reading Pope Benedict XVI's book "Faith and Politics".

Brilliant stuff.

Posted by: mrp at April 18, 2026 11:54 AM (rj6Yv)

35 4 Starmer and Macron slapping each other on the back over their diplomatic victory in Iran is hilarious.

What a couple of comical midgets they are.
Posted by: Cicero
======
Two losers as far as their countrymen are concerned. Both have approval ratings in the toilet.

That is apparently true across the board in Western Euroland because the ruling elites are destroying their own countrymen to permit Islamic invasion and impoverishment of their own citizens.

Posted by: whig at April 18, 2026 11:54 AM (E4rtv)

36 >>The prayer thread became a Reformation II thread, and now the religious freedom thread has become a boob thread.

Any religious freedom thread that doesn't pay homage to Rhode Island isn't real.

Heathens.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 18, 2026 11:55 AM (viF8m)

37 I'm reading Pope Benedict XVI's book "Faith and Politics".

Brilliant stuff.
Posted by: mrp
=======
Benedict was an excellent and sound theologian.

Posted by: whig at April 18, 2026 11:55 AM (E4rtv)

38 Just in from London, the RN will have a ship of the line on duty in the Strait as soon as carpenter artisans make new masts.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at April 18, 2026 11:56 AM (gm9Sb)

39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5G8dVhCIi8

Posted by: Ghost of Turbines past at April 18, 2026 11:56 AM (jrgJz)

40 JackStraw at April 18, 2026 11:48 AM

There are also a couple of pieces over at Tablet, one "Killing Nasrallah" from 2024 and one or two recent ones that help explain the situation in Lebanon, too. Sounds like after Israel took out Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah) in 2024, the USA wouldn't let them finish off Hezbollah.

Posted by: KT at April 18, 2026 11:57 AM (7vIsy)

41 Man of the people! From GatewayPundit...

Obama’s hideous new presidential library is set to open in June and unsurprisingly, it’s not going to be cheap. What is surprising, is how much the tickets will actually cost to get in the door.

In addition to having to show an ID, tickets are a whopping $30 for adults. Thirty dollars per ticket!

Does that come with a meal or a few drinks?

We’ve heard that they’re paying some hefty salaries at the library but $30 per ticket seems a bit ridiculous.

Posted by: Stateless - He ain't heavy, he's my dog. Old, but full of life. at April 18, 2026 11:57 AM (Sco7b)

42 I was in second grade when the Nixon-Kennedy campaigns were going on. I remember the serious faced newscasters on the evening news, I could read headlines of articles, and the hurriedly hushed arguments when kids were around. Know why? Kennedy was Catholic and this meant the Pope would be in charge, and this was bad. I find this respect for the Pope's opinion on our politics pretty surprising, to say the least.

Posted by: Lirio100 at April 18, 2026 11:57 AM (ky7/T)

43 27 >>I don't know who Lee Smith is

He's a smart guy very good writer. His book Disappearing the President about how the deep state tried to take Trump down is excellent.

I don't always agree with him. I don't always agree with me. But he's nobodies fool and his opinions are worth considering.
Posted by: JackStraw
=======
I agree with Jack's take. I came across Lee Smith on Real Clear Politics during Trump I term and unlike the online influencers, he is one the rare reporters on the right by actually going out and investigating rather than rely on opinion making.

Posted by: whig at April 18, 2026 11:59 AM (E4rtv)

44 Any religious freedom thread that doesn't pay homage to Rhode Island isn't real.

Heathens.
Posted by: JackStraw at April 18, 2026 11:55 AM (viF8m)

Rhode Island isn't real, therefore no homage is due.

Posted by: Only the deluded believe in Rhode Island at April 18, 2026 12:01 PM (TbWk/)

45 Ok, bone therapy over. Time to go frolic with Elvis.

Have a great day and keep Bertha at bay.

https://tinyurl.com/3xw5kckx

Posted by: JackStraw at April 18, 2026 12:02 PM (viF8m)

46 21 I don't know who Lee Smith is, but he seems very invested in making us view JD Vance with suspicion, and appears to take on faith the words of known Obama-aligned liars about what Vance wants, and about what has been said and done off-stage. Maybe there's something there - Vance could be "an excellent subordinate but an untrustworthy commander", but it feels more like trying to he's trying to poison the well. Is it just me?
Posted by: RandomDave
=======
Last time I checked, Lee writes now for Tablet magazine whose primary audience are those of the Jewish faith. And the suspicion on Vance was over Vance's hiring of Tucker's son for his communication shop and perhaps opposing the Iranian strikes. To the best of my knowledge, Vance has not denounced Tucker (unlike Trump) so that adds to the worry.

Rubio on the other hand has a long history as senator for being pro Israel.

Some of this boils down to Vance has a relatively short track record as a politician which is his virtue but also causes worry for some in the GOP coalition. Harder to predict how he would behave as prezzie.

Posted by: whig at April 18, 2026 12:05 PM (E4rtv)

47 Any religious freedom thread that doesn't pay homage to Rhode Island isn't real.

Heathens.
Posted by: JackStraw at April 18, 2026 11:55 AM (viF8m)

Rhode Island isn't real, therefore no homage is due.
Posted by: Only the deluded believe in Rhode Island at April 18, 2026 12:01 PM (TbWk/)
===

Roger Williams and RI's "lively experiment" was rather contentious in some quarters.

Posted by: mrp at April 18, 2026 12:05 PM (rj6Yv)

48 Is it just me?
Posted by: RandomDave at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (aJQbY)

there are a lot of people in politics that are hoping that they can outlast Trump and go back to what they like doing better, which is a lot of graft and engineered failure so they can sit on their butts and rake in money.
Vance is seen as the next phase of Trump, and worse since he is young with a large family, and very targeted on the things that make the average American weaker, poorer, and more dependent.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 18, 2026 12:05 PM (rbvCR)

49 41 Man of the people! From GatewayPundit...

Obama’s hideous new presidential library is set to open in June and unsurprisingly, it’s not going to be cheap. What is surprising, is how much the tickets will actually cost to get in the door.

In addition to having to show an ID, tickets are a whopping $30 for adults. Thirty dollars per ticket!

Does that come with a meal or a few drinks?

We’ve heard that they’re paying some hefty salaries at the library but $30 per ticket seems a bit ridiculous.
Posted by: Stateless
======
Houses across the US are expensive, yo.

Posted by: Barry Soetero at April 18, 2026 12:06 PM (E4rtv)

50 "were contentious", that is.

Posted by: mrp at April 18, 2026 12:06 PM (rj6Yv)

51
I dunno... if that's what it takes to make the deal.

I think it most unlikely that the current regime in Iran will still be there in 20 years.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia

================

I also think it unlikely, but spit happens. Democrat administrations happen. Trump said "never" and JD Vance said "20 years and then you can enrich it."

Maybe between now and 2046 we'll see it as a smart deal, maybe not.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at April 18, 2026 12:06 PM (n7rxJ)

52 Complete eradication of islam from the face of the Earth is the only moral position.

Posted by: harbqll at April 18, 2026 12:06 PM (T4KLc)

53 Empeach Pope Bob!

Posted by: Ecclesiastically Challenged at April 18, 2026 12:09 PM (oftw2)

54 Complete eradication of islam from the face of the Earth is the only moral position.

Posted by: harbqll at April 18, 2026 12:06 PM (T4KLc)

This.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 18, 2026 12:09 PM (snZF9)

55 Obama’s hideous new presidential library is set to open in June and unsurprisingly, it’s not going to be cheap. What is surprising, is how much the tickets will actually cost to get in the door.

In addition to having to show an ID, tickets are a whopping $30 for adults. Thirty dollars per ticket!

Does that come with a meal or a few drinks?

We’ve heard that they’re paying some hefty salaries at the library but $30 per ticket seems a bit ridiculous.
Posted by: Stateless - He ain't heavy, he's my dog. Old, but full of life. at April 18, 2026 11:57 AM (Sco7b)
======

I get the $30 entrance fee, but how much does it cost to leave the library?

Posted by: mrp at April 18, 2026 12:10 PM (rj6Yv)

56 Wasn't Jefferson a nutmeg merchant?

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 18, 2026 12:12 PM (8gDV2)

57 What of Providence Plantation?

Posted by: Boss Moss at April 18, 2026 12:13 PM (8gDV2)

58 I wouldn't be surprised if entrance to the JEF's tombstone of doom requires a background check. Seeing as how you have to show ID I figure the staff is checking for people of unfavored status.

In addition to the $30.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 12:20 PM (AkEZC)

59 The lid prop on that piano has just the right sheen to make it look like it's photoshopped/AIed in. Odd visual effect.

Posted by: GWB at April 18, 2026 12:21 PM (jZqxK)

60 Alright, so in general probably pretty good, even very good.

I think part of my wariness is that I keep seeing people _claiming_ that Vance is poison, based mainly, as far as I can tell, on the fact that he's not giving Trump-style thundering denunciations of T'kar nor firing the son for the sins of the father.

"Where there's smoke, there's fire", but in politics "where there's noise, there's an op to twist your opinion" seems more accurate.

Posted by: RandomDave at April 18, 2026 12:21 PM (aJQbY)

61 _250th is going to be lit.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:21 PM (izXCr)

62 It must be a day to talk about theistic stuff

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at April 18, 2026 12:21 PM (fE6HJ)

63 And watch out for weird attempts to separate Catholics and Protestants politically.
_______
Too late. The hatred Protestants have for Catholicism - in remission since the 70s - is fully out in the open. Here and elsewhere.

Posted by: Eeyore at April 18, 2026 12:23 PM (AlhUl)

64 >>>The Pope does not think the current war is moral.
---

The pope is not moral.
The pope is possessed by a demon.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:25 PM (izXCr)

65 Happening this year:

250th Anniversary of Independence
Obama's library opens
25th Anniversary of 9/11
NYC's first Muslim Mayor leads 9/11 Remembrance

WTF

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:27 PM (DmCto)

66 Complete eradication of islam from the face of the Earth is the only moral position.

What are we, chopped liver?

- the bowels of the earth

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at April 18, 2026 12:28 PM (Kt19C)

67 Don't take Theistic if you're allergic to Theistic.

Posted by: Big Fat Farma at April 18, 2026 12:29 PM (2Ez/1)

68 Everyone knows Jefferson was in the pay of Big Nutmeg!

Posted by: Art Bell listeners at April 18, 2026 12:31 PM (2Ez/1)

69 I'm one of those "fallen away" Catholics who is contemplating returning to the church, but after two distasteful Popes in a row, I'm not so sure. Pope Benedict was good.

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:31 PM (DmCto)

70
_______
Too late. The hatred Protestants have for Catholicism - in remission since the 70s - is fully out in the open. Here and elsewhere.

I think it depends on the particular Protestants. They don't hate Catholics in the church which I serve and neither do I. I am frequently pointing out here ( to redo Benjamin Franklins quote) that we as Christians better hang together or we will hang separately That is be united against the left and Islam. I also have rather regularly recommended books by RC authors I love including Francois Fenelon, Jean Pierre de Caussade and Brother Lawrence

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:32 PM (rZCVI)

71 I was in second grade when the Nixon-Kennedy campaigns were going on. I remember the serious faced newscasters on the evening news, I could read headlines of articles, and the hurriedly hushed arguments when kids were around. Know why? Kennedy was Catholic and this meant the Pope would be in charge, and this was bad. I find this respect for the Pope's opinion on our politics pretty surprising, to say the least.
Posted by: Lirio100 at April 18, 2026 11:57 AM (ky7/T)

I was in 7th grade, and I remember those conversations very clearly. It was not a "hushed, hushed" conversation thing, either. Quite out in the open. We were Protestants, belonging to a Hungarian church, and people were talking.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at April 18, 2026 12:32 PM (5xuJ/)

72 >>> The Democrats decided they needed to get rid of a candidate in the crowded field for Governor of California, and the fall guy was Eric Swalwell.

They realized their Jungle Primary is going to bite them in the ass as the leading candidates are Repubs and they need to consolidate all the Donks into just one guy to survive the primary and get one on the real ballot.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at April 18, 2026 12:32 PM (/lPRQ)

73 Happening this year:

250th Anniversary of Independence
Obama's library opens
25th Anniversary of 9/11
NYC's first Muslim Mayor leads 9/11 Remembrance

WTF

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:27 PM (DmCto)

Theodore Roosevelt presidential library's grand opening is on July 4.

Posted by: Vendette at April 18, 2026 12:33 PM (ABYRG)

74 Generally, I find religious arguments between RC's and Protestants rather a bore

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:33 PM (rZCVI)

75 Noticing that the last couple of popes are leftist shills first and foremost in additional to being openly heretical (glazing Islam, paganist ice rituals, etc.) =/= hating Catholics.

Posted by: Let's think a bit more critically here at April 18, 2026 12:35 PM (TbWk/)

76 Clinton bombed a part of Europe too.

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 12:35 PM (GD0B3)

77 Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:31 PM (DmCto

I would encourage you to return. Popes come and go but- as a friend of mine who is RC says- the faith remains.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:35 PM (rZCVI)

78 Thx K.T.
I have no doubt that if the Bolshevik Dems take over they'd try to tear down or alter the Jefferson Memorial because " he had slaves and was a white supremacist"

Posted by: Smell the Glove at April 18, 2026 12:36 PM (gu0hJ)

79 I thought that kennedy was an Irish Catholic as opposed to a roman catholic. I guess there is a difference

Irony. The current situation with islam traces all the way back to Dope Urban II sending a halfassed effort way back when to defend the offering plate

Money changing cocksuckers that popes are

Posted by: Ghost of Turbines past at April 18, 2026 12:39 PM (jrgJz)

80 76 Clinton bombed a part of Europe too.
Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 12:35 PM (GD0B3)

Hardly anyone cares much about the Balkans. Fewer still would even know what they were/are.

Posted by: The warm blanket of ignorance at April 18, 2026 12:40 PM (TbWk/)

81 *Generally, I find religious arguments between RC's and Protestants rather a bore*

I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I've got my plastic Jesus
Sitting on the dashboard of my car

Going 90 it ain't scary
Long as I've got the Virgin Mary
Sitting on the dashboard of my car

Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:41 PM (2Ez/1)

82 It does depend on the Protestants. My point about the Nixon-Kennedy dust up was simply pointing out the hypocrisy. I agree with Fenelon about hanging together. IMO the loudest voices are simply using a tool for their own ends.

Posted by: Lirio100 at April 18, 2026 12:41 PM (ky7/T)

83 Excuse me? I skimmed the article and that's exactly what happened. I feel like an idiot -- I missed this in the reporting.

Well, to hell with JD Vance. 20 years will be here before you know it.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia
---

That's disheartening. Playing a double game may be why many, against wishes, feel that he's not up to it. Observation from other sources would be helpful.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:43 PM (LA6Ib)

84 Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:41 PM (2Ez/1

I don't have a plastic Jesus on the dashboard of my car and I always thought that song was rather silly and patronizing - besides being the only verse which I ever heard. Is there more to it?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:43 PM (rZCVI)

85 Can the strait be opened without a land acknowledgement?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 18, 2026 12:44 PM (Cqx++)

86 Posted by: Lirio100 at April 18, 2026 12:41 PM (ky7/T)

Yes.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:45 PM (rZCVI)

87 Hardly anyone cares much about the Balkans. Fewer still would even know what they were/are.
Posted by: The warm blanket of ignorance
---

All of the Balkans are not worth the bones of one Pomeranian.
_Bismark

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:46 PM (LA6Ib)

88 Get yourself a sweet Madonna
Dressed in rhinestone sitting on a
Pedestal of abalone shells.
Comes in colors pink and pleasant
Glows in the dark 'cause its iridescent
Take it with you when you travel far.

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:48 PM (BNA0v)

89
Get yourself a sweet Madonna
Dressed in rhinestones
And sitting on a pedestal of Abalone shell

Drivin' ninety, it ain't scary
'Cause I've got the Virgin Mary
Assuring me that I won't go to hell

Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:48 PM (2Ez/1)

90 he was willing to erase his boss’s red line and offer Iran a deal that allows it to enrich after 20 years

================

Excuse me? I skimmed the article and that's exactly what happened. I feel like an idiot -- I missed this in the reporting.

Well, to hell with JD Vance. 20 years will be here before you know it.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at April 18, 2026 11:42 AM (n7rxJ)

Yeah...DJT probably wanted to see how he stands up to something like that. He already knows Rubio can, kicked China out of the Panama Canal and removed Maduro. Now DJT is directly involved, yelling at the iranians, as he himself admitted.

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 12:49 PM (GD0B3)

91 Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:48 PM (2Ez/1)

Equally stupid lyrics.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:50 PM (Nx5jP)

92 2028 is wide open, it might end up being Rubio/DUDE 44 Bravo for all we know

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 12:50 PM (GD0B3)

93
I would encourage you to return. Popes come and go but- as a friend of mine who is RC says- the faith remains.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:

-‐--

You and your friend are right, of course. And the church is all about "the long view".

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:52 PM (lQA6G)

94 70
_______
Too late. The hatred Protestants have for Catholicism - in remission since the 70s - is fully out in the open. Here and elsewhere.
---

When one knows its views are antithetical to the other but fosters them upon the other anyway, it inspires contempt.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:52 PM (LA6Ib)

95 Too late. The hatred Protestants have for Catholicism - in remission since the 70s - is fully out in the open. Here and elsewhere.
Posted by: Eeyore
-------

Criticisms of the Pope are not manifestations of hatred for Catholicism.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2026 12:54 PM (XeU6L)

96 I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I've got my plastic Jesus
Sitting on the dashboard of my car

Going 90 it ain't scary
Long as I've got the Virgin Mary
Sitting on the dashboard of my car
Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:41 PM (2Ez/1)

I don't have a plastic Jesus on the dashboard of my car and I always thought that song was rather silly and patronizing - besides being the only verse which I ever heard. Is there more to it?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:43 PM (rZCVI)

Since you ask:

I can drive 100 miles an hour
Long as I got The Almighty Power
Underneath my pair of fuzzy dice!

Alleluiaaaaa, alleluiiaaaa!
A-amen, amen, amen!

Posted by: Joe Kidd at April 18, 2026 12:55 PM (nbLIj)

97 What's next on that fag Starmer and that other fag Macron's list? Selling Bibles in Tehran or Saudi Arabia? Idiots.

Posted by: Dumb And Dumber at April 18, 2026 12:56 PM (onPc6)

98 Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 12:52 PM (lQA6G

I think you will find it a blessing to receive the Eucharist and be surrounded by the beauty of the Mass-and nobody is paying me to say this, though that would be funny, wouldn't it ? itProtestant pastor urging people to go back to the RCC. Maybe you consider calling up the church and having a chat with the priest. They love to hear that people want to come back, I expect.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:56 PM (Nx5jP)

99
Theodore Roosevelt presidential library's grand opening is on July 4.
Posted by: Vendette at April 18, 2026 12:33 PM

------

A great man. To think Biden occupied the same office as TR is appalling.

Posted by: JM at April 18, 2026 12:57 PM (BbMz+)

100 I have no doubt that if the Bolshevik Dems take over they'd try to tear down or alter the Jefferson Memorial because " he had slaves and was a white supremacist"
Posted by: Smell the Glove
------

Pete Butterjug said that Jefferson's presence on Mount Rushmore is 'problematic'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2026 12:57 PM (XeU6L)

101 "Plastic Jesus"
Besides the slow version Newman sings in the movie, there's a hundred more recordings of it.

This one has nice instrumental accompaniment:

https://youtu.be/pIqF-Mrh2bk

Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12:58 PM (2Ez/1)

102 Show of hands those who heeded Humanae Vitae in 1968? Thats what I thought, so shut up about the pope.

Posted by: Hokey Pokey at April 18, 2026 12:59 PM (+0v0J)

103 Posted by: Cool Hand Luke at April 18, 2026 12

That's ok. I'll give it a pass.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:59 PM (Nx5jP)

104 >>>I was in 7th grade, and I remember those conversations very clearly. It was not a "hushed, hushed" conversation thing, either. Quite out in the open. We were Protestants, belonging to a Hungarian church, and people were talking.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy
---

After observation, over time, general consensus was that he's a buffet Catholic so it doesn't make much difference.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 12:59 PM (LA6Ib)

105 Leo, old boy, you might want to tone down the overt politics a wee bit. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Pope Alexander VI, The Borgia Pope at April 18, 2026 12:59 PM (Riz8t)

106 97 What's next on that fag Starmer and that other fag Macron's list? Selling Bibles in Tehran or Saudi Arabia? Idiots.

Posted by: Dumb And Dumber at April 18, 2026 12:56 PM (onPc6)

"The Vagina Monologues" performed in Mecca.

Posted by: Stateless - He ain't heavy, he's my dog. Old, but full of life. at April 18, 2026 01:00 PM (Sco7b)

107 imo there are (real) Christians in all denominations, and in the "freelancer" group. But also a lot of evil leaders, as we saw with the Pharisees and even the early church.

Posted by: illiniwek at April 18, 2026 01:01 PM (vbXSk)

108 Vance and his team on one side, DeSantis and his team on the other vying for the big chair.

Oddly, I trust Rubio the most at this point which makes me nervous. Never trust a politician.

Posted by: connected and litigious at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM (cS1cw)

109 I'm going to be blunt. When I hear "Just War" my reaction is "False Doctrine."

Posted by: NR Pax at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM (+NIRm)

110 Vance won Ohio by first being a Never Trump guy (as he himself said in 2016) and then saying enough pro-Tump things around 2022 to get Trump to endorse him. Trump knew what he said in the past, but endorsed anyway, because we needed Ohio.

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM (GD0B3)

111

Maybe it's just me. I don't like when people come to my home wanting to "witness" to me.

I think it is intrusive.

Posted by: four seasons at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM (3ek7K)

112 1pm news

Strait of Hormuz closed again.
Nice oil wells you had there...

Posted by: Stateless - He ain't heavy, he's my dog. Old, but full of life. at April 18, 2026 01:04 PM (Sco7b)

113 Thank you, Fen, for your thoughtful guidance. I'll promise this: to attend Church for a month and get comfortable, then see about a one-on-one. Did you know Catholics require confession? Now that would be a long session, LOL.
Thanks

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 01:04 PM (BNA0v)

114 112 1pm news

Strait of Hormuz closed again.
Nice oil wells you had there...
Posted by: Stateless - He ain't heavy, he's my dog. Old, but full of life. at April 18, 2026 01:04 PM (Sco7b)

-----

That's why I drilled mine right here in Pennsylvania

Posted by: Edwin Drake at April 18, 2026 01:06 PM (SVeHj)

115 "Plastic Jesus"
Besides the slow version Newman sings in the movie, there's a hundred more recordings of it.

This one has nice instrumental accompaniment:

https://youtu.be/pIqF-Mrh2bk

That was really great, thanks.

Posted by: Archimedes at April 18, 2026 01:07 PM (Riz8t)

116 Once the churches, regardless of denominations, stop with their NGO and charity scams, I’ll re-engage. It’s all about the money and has little to do with faith and fellowship. Getting right with God has nothing to do with what I’ve witnessed recently regarding any religion.

Posted by: Unkaren at April 18, 2026 01:07 PM (utGqj)

117 BREAKING NEWS !

"Tucker Carlson’s son no longer works at the White House, as of this week.

@politico @adamwren just confirmed it"

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 01:08 PM (GD0B3)

118 I wouldn't be surprised if entrance to the JEF's tombstone of doom requires a background check. Seeing as how you have to show ID I figure the staff is checking for people of unfavored status.

In addition to the $30.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 12:20 PM (AkEZC)

Well, it's a grift, what do you expect?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2026 01:08 PM (utfVc)

119 Well, well, fuckity well...

Inconvenient Truths — Jennifer Zeng Reports
@jenniferzeng97
🚨Breaking! Another 5 PLA generals and multiple high-ranking military officials have been dismissed!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 18, 2026 01:08 PM (diia5)

120 "That's why I drilled mine right here in Pennsylvania"

on that US oil map from last night, I saw Illinois was pretty black as well. I've heard of smaller wells around, and my well driller from 2000 even mentioned it. But idk of any large scale production here ... guess I could check in five minutes ... heh.

Posted by: illiniwek at April 18, 2026 01:09 PM (vbXSk)

121 *I heard tell he shares much of the same views as his daddy.

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 01:09 PM (GD0B3)

122 I think Vance has been "sidelined" by choice. The current situation in and around Iran is volatile.... politically. For Trump, it doesn't matter how sideways it goes. For Vance, it does. He's protecting his political future. His worldview is considerably different from Trump's. His upbringing and age have a lot to do with it.

I think it's premature to know what Vance would/wouldn't do 2-3 years from now, presuming he's the candidate and wins.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 01:11 PM (AkEZC)

123 Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 01:04 PM (BNA0v)

I am glad to hear that. I have another guy I know who was lapsed from the RCC for about 30 years. He came back and went to confession and he told the priest "I've committed every sin but adultery and murder." I think they both had a laugh about it and the priest was surprisingly easy to confess to

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 01:12 PM (rZCVI)

124 hmm.

"Scoop in @playbookdc: Buckley Carlson has departed the White House, where he served as VP JD Vance’s deputy press secretary, to start his own political consulting firm, according to two sources familiar with the plan.

"Buckley first informed the VP’s office of his intention to depart in December, but stayed on for several months to ensure a smooth transition,” a Vance official told me."

Oh, you don't say. A 29 year old launching his own political consulting firm !

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 01:13 PM (GD0B3)

125 4 months is not "several months", quit lying.

Posted by: runner at April 18, 2026 01:13 PM (GD0B3)

126 Did you know Catholics require confession? Now that would be a long session, LOL.
Thanks

Posted by: JM in Illinois at April 18, 2026 01:04 PM (BNA0v)

When I got married I had to go to confession. Something I hadn't done since 6th grade. My exact words were I'm getting married next week, I haven't been here since I was 12, you got a bulk rate? lol

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 18, 2026 01:13 PM (snZF9)

127 Strait of Hormuz closed again

I was going to comment on this, but wanted to keep my powder dry. Just the threat, regardless of reality, will cause oil prices to fluctuate. Are we obligated to keep it open?

Posted by: Unkaren at April 18, 2026 01:13 PM (utGqj)

128 108 Vance and his team on one side, DeSantis and his team on the other vying for the big chair.

Oddly, I trust Rubio the most at this point which makes me nervous. Never trust a politician.

Posted by: connected and litigious at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM

-------

I'll settle for 80% agreement with a conservative politician, and still expect to be disappointed. I read that somewhere: All politicians disappoint.

Posted by: Edwin Drake at April 18, 2026 01:14 PM (v3gtd)

129 I think it's premature to know what Vance would/wouldn't do 2-3 years from now, presuming he's the candidate and wins.
Posted by: Martini Farmer

I don't see these Kremlin-watcher like observations at all. Absent some disaster, he's the presumptive nominee in the same fashion that every other VP has been. The noise is just noise

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 18, 2026 01:15 PM (diia5)

130
on that US oil map from last night, I saw Illinois was pretty black as well. I've heard of smaller wells around, and my well driller from 2000 even mentioned it. But idk of any large scale production here ... guess I could check in five minutes ... heh.
Posted by: illiniwek

I've seen oil rigs pumping in southwest Indiana down by the Gibson station power plant.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 18, 2026 01:16 PM (Cqx++)

131 Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 18, 2026 01:13 PM (snZF9

Bulk rate. LOL.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 01:16 PM (Nx5jP)

132 Maybe it's just me. I don't like when people come to my home wanting to "witness" to me.

I think it is intrusive.

Posted by: four seasons at April 18, 2026 01:02 PM (3ek7K)

Didn't mind it myself. I consider it an alternate form of worship. Had JWs coming by regularly at the old place and I'd always flip the script and end up witnessing to them. They always came in pairs, and the "elder" would often depart with a beleaguered look as he anticipated the multiple questions I (the Holy Spirit) planted in his younger companion's head...

Posted by: Joe Kidd at April 18, 2026 01:17 PM (nbLIj)

133 Equally stupid lyrics.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 12:50 PM (Nx5jP)

Maybe you should pay more attention. The song really mocks those who display the physical trappings of faith but who do not behave in a manner fitting for a believer.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2026 01:18 PM (utfVc)

134 The West seems to hold the Pope, any Pope, as exemplar of Christianity. Lifelong protestant that I am, I struggle with this. Seems that viewing that "Roman Guy" as just another churchy politician makes my perspective pragmatic and keeps me out of the binds and logical puzzles that trouble so many of my Catholic friends who struggle to reconcile "Pope Pronouncements" with their church's traditional theology. YMMV

Posted by: YellowBird at April 18, 2026 01:18 PM (MEbkQ)

135 Bush/Pence 2028...Make Milquetoast Great...Again!

Please clap...

Posted by: Jeb!, Inbred Retard at April 18, 2026 01:19 PM (onPc6)

136 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2026 01:18 PM (utfVc)

Did he have any songs examining himself?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 01:20 PM (Nx5jP)

137 I am glad to hear that. I have another guy I know who was lapsed
--

The evangelical thread was the thread before this one.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at April 18, 2026 01:20 PM (LA6Ib)

138 135, should gone with 'inbred retread', for the rhyme.

Posted by: RandomDave at April 18, 2026 01:20 PM (aJQbY)

139 Did he have any songs examining himself?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at April 18, 2026 01:20 PM (Nx5jP)

Who? I don't know who wrote the song, but it's pretty darned clear from the lyrics what the intended target of the mockery is.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2026 01:23 PM (utfVc)

140 "Seems that viewing that "Roman Guy" as just another churchy politician makes my perspective pragmatic"

Lots of people both in and out of the church make the mistake of forgetting this.

When the Pope opens his mouth, it isn't always as the Mouth Of God. That's what encyclicals are for.

He is VERY much a politician, or he would never have been in the running to be elected--ELECTED--Pope.

He is head of one of the richest and most exclusive sovereign states on the planet, and quite often speaks as that very political mouthpiece.

(raised catholic, talking here)

Posted by: barbarausa at April 18, 2026 01:23 PM (enw9G)

141 > on that US oil map from last night,
---------
You don't see maps like that very often, for some reason, do you? I wonder why. *

* I don't wonder why

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 18, 2026 01:25 PM (AkEZC)

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