Wednesday Morning Rant

Depopulation

No, not some WEF scheme or diabolical plan from the rest of the global elite. They want depopulation, of course, but they are not the architects of reality. As usual with the plans of our betters, it won't pan out the way they envision. We are getting depopulation right now, with no end in sight and it isn't unfolding according to some grand plan. It is now so obvious, however, and such a huge topic of worry that places further along the curve than we are have "Depopulation" as a coverage category in the newspaper.

That example from Japan (from the English-language "Japan Times" paper) is focused on Japan, of course, but includes coverage about population declines from across Asia. A few articles a week usually pop up under the "Depopulation" tag. Demographic trends. Similar issues in other countries. The continuing decline in rural population. What to do with abandoned houses. What can be done to reverse the baby bust. What are foreigners doing about it?

One big part of this is the "what can we do about it" aspect of the population crisis (and I do think it is a crisis, albeit the opposite of the crisis that's usually discussed by elites who aren't named "Elon Musk"). As the West's demography continues to falter and follows what we're seeing in Asia, it is worth paying attention to what they're trying to do about it and whether it's working. The government plans usually boil down to two things:
1. Financial incentives
2. Mating-promotion activities

The first is fairly straightforward: cash for kids and sometimes a lot of it. The Republic of Korea - home to the world's lowest fertility rate - has hurled hundreds of billions of dollars at the problem in the form of incentives, bonuses, tax exemptions, education offsets, housing assistance, etc. Backed by tax incentives, even Korean mega-corporations are getting in on it, offering company-paid incentives to employees who have children, some up to around $75,000 or so. The country's fertility rate continues to fall.

Japan's policies, subsidy schemes and incentives are similarly numerous. Japan and Korea, being the worst off, are trying the most options and spending the most money. They are not alone. There are similar government-backed cash incentive programs throughout Asia. Singapore and Taiwan have incentive programs, too. Red China scrapped its "One Child Policy" years ago and it's now the "Three Child Policy" and Party members are instructed to go have kids. The fertility rate trend in all of these countries do not indicate that these schemes are successful.

Which leads to the second part. Marriage is both down and, when it still happens, occurs later in life in all of these countries - and in our own. People date less and marry less. Fewer people reproduce and those who do reproduce do so at lower rates. To try to tackle this, the governments are encouraging dating-for-marriage and providing venues for dating and to help people find dates. Megalopolises like Seoul, Korea host blind date events to help young singles meet each other and hopefully get married. Korea, Japan and Red China (at least) all have government-sponsored "meet markets" for singles to try to get them to meet each other, get married and have children - with promises of financial incentives if they follow through. In Japan, Tokyo is developing its own marriage-oriented dating app with identity, income, marital status and age verification to try to overcome the "everyone lies about everything and just want to hook up" problem with online dating. Like Tokyo's new effort, Red China also has marriage-focused dating apps sponsored by the government.

The latter approaches - the approaches other than "throw money at the problem" - are relatively new. Will these government shadchonus programs work where money has failed? It's too soon to tell, but if past is prologue, then probably not. But with fertility rates peaking or actively declining essentially everywhere in the developed and developing world, it is worth paying attention to what others are doing - both to avoid going down well-traveled but dead-end roads, and to see what if anything works. I don't know what's next, but I suspect it will be legal, social or religious in nature rather than financial. It is arguable that these state-sponsored matchmaking practices are the first major foray into the social side of things in search of a solution.

Dreams of the global elite aside, depopulation is a nightmare scenario for cultures, nations, economies and possibly even the species - and various countries are trying more and more things to try to arrest it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:00 AM (v6JzV)

2 Yes! I'll cull the otters.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:00 AM (v6JzV)

3 Morning.

Posted by: Robert at June 19, 2024 11:01 AM (hKDCS)

4 Dreams of the global elite aside, depopulation is a nightmare scenario for cultures, nations, economies and possibly even the species

We will be treating this problem at the source: the global elites.

Posted by: t-bird at June 19, 2024 11:02 AM (OkFiN)

5 Government even screws up sex.

Posted by: blaster at June 19, 2024 11:03 AM (IFNME)

6 Given the number of clinically insane people running around, I'm not sure they should be producing kids anyway. Not that they will. I doubt any of the alphabet people can or will reproduce.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 19, 2024 11:03 AM (Q4IgG)

7 >>depopulation is a nightmare scenario for cultures, nations, economies and possibly even the species - and various countries are trying more and more things to try to arrest it.

Yes.
This is why Putin is so against all the LGBTQ stuff -- he needs heterosexual couples having babies. The Left hates him for it, but he's got a country to keep going.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 19, 2024 11:03 AM (cCVOS)

8 Well, the current tik tok generation of booty calls, hookups and sexting is going to have to die off, first.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (Q0kLU)

9 Modern feminism is the major cause.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (pohLc)

10 What can be done to reverse the baby bust?

Fuck. I don't know.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (OuWLw)

11 "shadchonus"

Love it!

There are groups that have a birthrate far above replacement...coincidentally they are religious and place a high value on marriage.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (d9fT1)

12 Happy Good Friday.

Never Forget.

Posted by: Duh at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (Ahg10)

13 I hate to say it, but feminist women got what they wanted: no men. Men have finally had enough after decades of demonization, blame for all problems, and generally being shit on. Why bother?

There are much easier and cheaper ways to get sex and even companionship than putting a ring on it and starting a family. This problem will continue to get worse.

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:05 AM (iFTx/)

14 The first is fairly straightforward: cash for kids and sometimes a lot of it.

How much for little girl? You sell?
Posted by: Russian Oligarch

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:05 AM (OuWLw)

15 What does "shadconus" mean?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (v6JzV)

16 The cost of raising a family is prohibitively expensive. The solution isn't to throw money at the problem, the solution is to get the government out of the fucking way.

Stop restricting land use so that way homes can become affordable. Get the government out of healthcare so families can afford to take sickly chil'uns to the doctor. Stop throwing money at universities because it only inflates tuition.

Ya know what?

Put me in charge as Dictator For Life. I'll fix alla this shit.

Posted by: Robert at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (mfUZH)

17 Poland is encouraging families, too.
Every global organization, and the Left here condemn it as homophobic blah blah blah, but like Russia, they have a people they want to continue, and recognize it takes families with kids to do so.

Maybe not a globalist conspiracy, but the woke culture labels any value or behavior that promotes fertility/childbearing as some sort of hate.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (cCVOS)

18 I was stationed in Italy 30ish years ago. Their culture was VERY child friendly. As an American I found it odd but children lived in the family home until they married and then the family gave the married couple an apartment sometimes even in the same building. I look at it now and think they had it figured out.

And yet they didn't. Italy has the lowest birth rate in Europe.

Posted by: blaster at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (IFNME)

19 Perhaps the species has run it's course? Die offs happen. We're not smart enough keep around. Pick one.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 19, 2024 11:07 AM (Q4IgG)

20 Our modern civilization lets women do without men. They want money and a career. They don't need no men. This will inevitably lead to collapse of modern civilization. At which point all the strong independent women can become slaves to the warlords, and traditional sex roles will again be prevalent, because survival will dictate.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at June 19, 2024 11:07 AM (pohLc)

21 At least Musk is doing his part to perpetuate the species.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:08 AM (v6JzV)

22 >>Modern feminism is the major cause.

Yes. They see pregnancy as a disease that needs to be fixed with *air quotes* reproductive health.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 19, 2024 11:08 AM (cCVOS)

23 Industrialized countries are expensive to live in and their people are usually literate, meaning they can do the math and have decided to spend their time and money on themselves. That's a shame, because in less literate and developed places as soon as a famine is busted either by foreign aid or good luck (peace and farming), they fuck like rabbits and boom, there's a new generation.

Maybe the reality is that opulence and decadence isn't a good recipe for family formation, because people focus on their own pleasures once the basics of life are met easily.

Just spitballin'

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 19, 2024 11:08 AM (FCbAQ)

24 How are Africa and India faring?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 19, 2024 11:09 AM (63Dwl)

25 Put bench seats back in cars. Fertility decline solved.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at June 19, 2024 11:09 AM (JTwsP)

26 So can I expect to see 1-877-KASH-4-KIDZ commercials soon?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:10 AM (Q0kLU)

27 Also in the 80s and 90s the French had programs to encourage birth of French children. Immigrants not eligible for the cash payments and extensive paid parental leave.

Also did not work. I think France is 2d behind Italy in low birth rates.

Posted by: blaster at June 19, 2024 11:10 AM (IFNME)

28 Maybe the reality is that opulence and decadence isn't a good recipe for family formation, because people focus on their own pleasures once the basics of life are met easily.

Just spitballin'
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 19, 2024 11:08 AM (FCbAQ)

Is it a bad sign if she's scrolling through BookFace while you're sexing her butt?

Posted by: Robert at June 19, 2024 11:10 AM (mfUZH)

29
I see families with four, five and six kids at my Traditional Latin Mass.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 19, 2024 11:10 AM (MoZTd)

30 Well, the current tik tok generation of booty calls, hookups and sexting is going to have to die off, first.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (Q0kLU)
++++
This is a big part of it, yes. But how? It's fun and accessible for most women and some men, and as long as both (especially women, since they gatekeep sex, though men gatekeep marriage) are convinced it's a consequence-free activity with no long-term effects on their ability to marry or have children, there is no incentive to change it. There are also huge welfare schemes and legal systems (liability-transferring schemes) to deal with the consequences.

We used to handle this through social mores, shame and consequences. That's all been burned down and something else will have to replace it or it will have to be rebuilt. If I had to guess, it will start with smarter and more observant young people seeing exploding middle-aged misery and trying connect the dots.

If indeed "traditions are solutions to problems that society forgot it had," then a re-emergence of those problems will lead to new traditions to address them. If we survive long enough to build them.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (d04cU)

31 Here's the thing: There is nothing government can do. There are a lot of things it needs to stop doing as a necessary precondition, but what needs to happen is far beyond the scope of government to accomplish to any degree of competence.

What has happened--and this is not entirely on governments, but they sure as hell facilitated and amplified it--is a general decay of the human spirit. I can't do justice to the entirety of how it happened but big parts are creeping secularism that renders human living meaningless, constant pushing of pessimistic anti-human propaganda, and constant restrictions on the most basic of human activities for purposes of virtue signaling and arrogation of power. There's a lot more but those three are off the top of my head.

Something has to change culturally. It's not something you can reliably do in a purposeful and directed way. Normally I would say something has to sweep away the old orders in the normal way, but at the moment I'm apprehensive about the results of such a thing, given that the usual cultural fallbacks have been so compromised, well, nearly everywhere. Though I may be wrong, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (OUMaO)

32 Know who else wanted to get lots of young girls pregnant?

Posted by: Aryan Nookie at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (dg+HA)

33 How are Africa and India faring?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 19, 2024 11:09 AM (63Dwl)
++++
India has peaked and is probably beginning its decline. Africa is spottier and is a very big place.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (d04cU)

34 18 I was stationed in Italy 30ish years ago. Their culture was VERY child friendly. As an American I found it odd but children lived in the family home until they married and then the family gave the married couple an apartment sometimes even in the same building. I look at it now and think they had it figured out.

And yet they didn't. Italy has the lowest birth rate in Europe.
Posted by: blaster at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (IFNME)

If there is no afterlife and a good government run old person safety net, there is very little incentive for either men or women to have children. Children require responsible parenting, adult lifestyle and monetary trade offs, and lack of freedom to be raised by either adult party. They don't "pay off" until they become adults themselves, as far as being a net gain to the one who birthed them vs a net drain.

So, without a faith-based, forward-future thinking, you have both men and women doing what they do now - not having kids.

Japan has no broad-based faith or real Christian-esque religion in their society...and thus, they have no kids, even with all the financial resources to do so.

Posted by: Nova Local at June 19, 2024 11:12 AM (exHjb)

35 Know who else wanted to get lots of young girls pregnant?
Posted by: Aryan Nookie at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (dg+HA)

Me and every other person with a wang?

Posted by: Robert at June 19, 2024 11:13 AM (mfUZH)

36 Who knows? Maybe it ain't just us. I remember running across a book or article about the search for advanced civilizations in space -- if they're supposed to be out there, where is everybody?

Could be we're about to find out the hard way?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at June 19, 2024 11:13 AM (q3u5l)

37 Something has to change culturally. It's not something you can reliably do in a purposeful and directed way. Normally I would say something has to sweep away the old orders in the normal way, but at the moment I'm apprehensive about the results of such a thing, given that the usual cultural fallbacks have been so compromised, well, nearly everywhere. Though I may be wrong, and hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:11 AM (OUMaO)
++++
I largely agree. It's a widespread social problem with lots of causes. Expense is one such problem, though I think it's probably more likely a rationalization as opposed to a justification for a lot of people. Social fabric and faith is another. Perverse incentives is another.

Some kind of revolution is increasingly likely in my opinion. No culture can survive what is happening.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:13 AM (d04cU)

38 At church this past Sunday, I sat behind a couple with seven children and in front of a couple with four. I doubt they are the population stabilizers that Dems find acceptable.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 19, 2024 11:14 AM (5L1F8)

39 Japan is different from Europe, in that they've been obsessed with overpoopulation for decades. It was part of the reason they were so expansionist prior to WWII.

But Europe started down the depoopulation road, mostly due to prosperity, mixed with socialism. And a loss of values.

A nation that wants to be prosperous can do so, and continue to grow its own people... if there's a sense of purpose behind the nation, and one's place in it.

But take away those incentives, and I'm damn well not going to bring kids into this shithole.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:14 AM (OfSkg)

40 Depopulation has been around since the 1700s

Posted by: Skip at June 19, 2024 11:14 AM (xE0Xz)

41 I suspect that much of the lower birth rate in the West is due to abandonment of religion in particular Christianity.

The experience of the U.S. may dispute that theory but i think much of our fertility rate is held up by immigrants who still hold their religious belief.

Do they track native birth rates anymore? I wonder what Euro birth rates would look like without immigration

Posted by: blaster at June 19, 2024 11:14 AM (IFNME)

42 Today, June 19, is the day the United Nations will observe the annual International Day for the Elimination of Sexual Violence in Conflict. Another token feel-good gesture.

Probably doesn't apply to Israeli women.

Posted by: SMOD at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (GITLP)

43 The problem is largely cultural, in my opinion: people have had it pounded into their heads for decades that delaying marriage and reproduction until you have a stable and flourishing career is the admirable, even responsible thing to do. And no one government policy is going to change that value system.

To be even more pessimistic, I think the only thing that will change it is a demographic collapse, leading to such a massive degradation of our living standards that the contemporary "career-first" lifestyle is no longer feasible.

Posted by: Dr. T at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (jGGMD)

44 Hans Rosling video on population growth.
Ten minutes.
https://youtu.be/fTznEIZRkLg

Posted by: Stop worrying at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (dg+HA)

45 What does "shadconus" mean?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:06 AM (v6JzV)
++++
"Shadchonus" is the Jewish matchmaking process. A person who delivers matchmaking services is called a "shadchan."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (d04cU)

46 The Earth's population will stabilize naturally. We may not like the results but that's how it is.

Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (PLXMa)

47 Paul, isn't there a donkey's ass out there you need to be french kissing?

Posted by: Xipe Totec at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (pohLc)

48 "Shadchonus" is the Jewish matchmaking process. A person who delivers matchmaking services is called a "shadchan."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

Thanks. Is that like a yenta?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (v6JzV)

49 Today, June 19, is the day the United Nations will observe the annual International Day for the Elimination of Sexual Violence in Conflict. Another token feel-good gesture.

Probably doesn't apply to Israeli women.
Posted by: SMOD at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (GITLP)

lol silly goose!

Everyone knows Jews aren't people.

Posted by: UN Human Rights Council at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (mfUZH)

50 A nation that wants to be prosperous can do so, and continue to grow its own people... if there's a sense of purpose behind the nation, and one's place in it.

I wonder what the birth rate was during the decline of the western Roman Empire.

And come to think of it, Nineteen Eighty-Four had its Junior Anti-Sex League.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (Q0kLU)

51 Joe seems to leave out the fact that even in the USA white depopulation is increasing.
Rural red areas are losing their population especially the young who want to live in areas where there is greater opportunities for education, work, social engagement.
Chinas 3 kids policy? That will not become effective for another 21 years. Until then kids are economic losers.
Posted by: C0cksucker at June 19, 2024 11:14 AM (c0ck$)
++++
Tell me you didn't bother reading the post without telling me you didn't bother reading the post.

Specific sub-demography aside, I do mention the problems in the West. It's why looking at the problem among places where it's far worse - that is, the East - may be useful to see what does or does not work. It usually doesn't work, which is sort of the point.

And yeah, China's efforts - including the stupidity of trying to hold on to a brain-dead policy (centralized 'family planning' laws) with little tweaks without meaningful underlying changes - aren't any more successful than her neighbors'.

Next time, consider reading.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (d04cU)

52 Well, the current tik tok generation of booty calls, hookups and sexting is going to have to die off, first.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:04 AM (Q0kLU)
________

Except I think that not only is that not going to die off, but it will take over. People respond to incentives. That is universal conduct that can never be changed.

And what are today's incentives? All of them are against families and in favor of independent casual relationships. Government incentives favor unmarried, single women (with or without kids). Feminist incentives favor the same.

Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)

53 How are Africa and India faring?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 19, 2024 11:09 AM (63Dwl)

Bill Gates tried to sterilize all the Africans. They mostly figured out what he was up to and tossed him out. India never let him in to begin with.

So birthrates are chugging along in both parts of the world.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:20 AM (Cp+5w)

54 This is a big part of it, yes. But how? It's fun and accessible for most women and some men, and as long as both (especially women, since they gatekeep sex, though men gatekeep marriage) are convinced it's a consequence-free activity with no long-term effects on their ability to marry or have children, there is no incentive to change it. There are also huge welfare schemes and legal systems (liability-transferring schemes) to deal with the consequences.

We used to handle this through social mores, shame and consequences. That's all been burned down and something else will have to replace it or it will have to be rebuilt. If I had to guess, it will start with smarter and more observant young people seeing exploding middle-aged misery and trying connect the dots.

If indeed "traditions are solutions to problems that society forgot it had," then a re-emergence of those problems will lead to new traditions to address them. If we survive long enough to build them.
Posted by: Joe Mannix

Shut down no fault divorce and the guy being an atm. Guys finally figured out giving away half your stuff every time just isn't worth it.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:20 AM (OuWLw)

55 Thanks. Is that like a yenta?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (v6JzV)
++++
They're often conflated, but technically no.

A yenta is just a gossip - a busybody. Yentas often also try to marry off the youth, but they are not primarily matchmakers. They're busybodies who know (or at least familiar with) everybody and usually attempt to fix up kids with each-other. Unlike a shadchan, however, yentas are amateurs and usually unpaid. Shadchanim are professionals and do it as a business and the process is more or less formalized.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:21 AM (d04cU)

56 To be even more pessimistic, I think the only thing that will change it is a demographic collapse, leading to such a massive degradation of our living standards that the contemporary "career-first" lifestyle is no longer feasible.
Posted by: Dr. T at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (jGGMD)

The world population keeps increasing.
We're only talking about demographic collapse as regards our own populations. The Chinese and Japanese are only worried about their own populations ( and in China only some of their populations) and in America the only folks worried are the whites.
What will happen is demographic collapse but not societal collapse. Whites wither out and are replaced by browns economically and politically and standards of living will fall rapidly as nobody but whites have pushed for "equality for all" in the history of forever.
In short, we'll be conquered by those who show up.
It's the way of the world.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 19, 2024 11:21 AM (FCbAQ)

57 The Earth's population will stabilize naturally. We may not like the results but that's how it is.
Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (PLXMa)

None of this is natural. Unless you consider politics, and the various ways humans F up their civilizations to be natural.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:22 AM (Cp+5w)

58 "Shadchonus" is the Jewish matchmaking process. A person who delivers matchmaking services is called a "shadchan."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:16 AM (d04cU)

You asked for it:

https://tinyurl.com/mum5efhp

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:22 AM (Q0kLU)

59 I think there's a connection to low birth rates, marriage, and traditional male/female interactions and what's being taught to kids in public schools.

I also think that school used to be a conditioning as well as an educating experience. You were conditioned to arrive at a certain time, go here, go there and you interacted with the opposite sex normally.

And occasionally learned stuff.

None of that is happening in public schools today.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at June 19, 2024 11:22 AM (Q4IgG)

60 "None of this is natural. Unless you consider politics, and the various ways humans F up their civilizations to be natural.
Posted by: BurtTC"

I do. Humans gotta human.

Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:23 AM (PLXMa)

61 Depopulation, it seems to me, is the natural result of the emancipation of women. Given the pain and risk of child-bearing, quite a few women, post-emancipation, are opting out of it; and most of the rest are opting to have fewer children. Nor can I (a male) blame them; if they're being selfish, they're being selfish in a way that I would be, had I been conceived with two X chromosomes.

I don't see a way out of this dilemma. As Mark Steyn pointed out, the future will belong to the people who show up for it; and those showing up for it will be from cultures that subjugate women.

Posted by: Nemo at June 19, 2024 11:23 AM (S6ArX)

62 And what are today's incentives? All of them are against families and in favor of independent casual relationships. Government incentives favor unmarried, single women (with or without kids). Feminist incentives favor the same.

Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)

The incentives are all AGAINST being in the faith. The attack on Catholics have just gotten bigger and more open year after year (as well as against Jews), the Covid vax debacle also went after those of strong faith of all types, the DEI and Pride support statements continue to go after them, etc...strong faith begets strong families...so, you destroy strong faith to destroy families...

Mission accomplished for Dems...but they might not like the effects, b/c they never think of long term and unintended effects...

Posted by: Nova Local at June 19, 2024 11:23 AM (exHjb)

63 Meanwhile sub-Saharan Africa continues to explode in population, with the highest fertility rates in the world.

Going to be a dicey next century.

Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:24 AM (25k9m)

64 Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)
++++
And undesirable men get nothing. Half of men under 30 don't date or pursue women *at all* anymore, which is a serious problem if you want people to get married and have kids. The top quarter is knee-deep in casual sex, the next quarter has some semi-routine access, the next quarter burned out and gave up, the bottom quarter never had access in the first place and threw in the towel early.

An interesting related problem is youth dating. Something like 75% of Boomers dated in high school. Under half of Zoomers do or did. They're giving up earlier than ever.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:24 AM (d04cU)

65 To be even more pessimistic, I think the only thing that will change it is a demographic collapse, leading to such a massive degradation of our living standards that the contemporary "career-first" lifestyle is no longer feasible.
Posted by: Dr. T at June 19, 2024 11:15 AM (jGGMD)

Oh, you're not pessimistic enough.

Covid 19 taught them much. And the desire for elites to control the human race and the planet has not lessened one bit.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:24 AM (Cp+5w)

66 As if kids or young adults even know what a marriage is- with all the divorced role models in their lives. And they grew up without siblings so they don't know how to have major conflicts with someone close to them and have to resolve the issues in a manner that often involves compromise and working past hurt feelings. Throwing money around is what got these cultures into low reproductive states, and it will not fix the problem.

Posted by: ama at June 19, 2024 11:24 AM (ez10z)

67 We could solve a lot of that problem here with merit based legal immigration, since so many still want to come to America. But the drug cartel run system is a disaster, especially since The Foundations are funding much of the run for the (our) border.

And the DEI push has made it more difficult for a strong man to be a father. Also the courts usually side with the woman. The push against Christianity is also not helpful ... sex is for fun from age 10 and up, and the groomers push the most perverted sex starting in grade school.

Lots of problems to resolve, but first society must recognize the issues and want change.

Posted by: illiniwek at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (Cus5s)

68 One element of the population bust is the lack of sexual activity among the yout. I think one explanation for that lack of sexual interest, particularly among the Japanese, is the widespread proliferation of Western pr*n.

Have you seen the size of those Johnson bars? Now imagine you are hung like a Chihuahua, or in my case like a can of tuna. How are you going to compete? How embarrassed would you be to whip out Wee Willie when your partner is expecting Shaft?

Posted by: Candidus at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (JKWTt)

69 Our culture has become so cynical in regards to marriage. If we're going to promote healthier marriages and families, we need to actually promote healthy marriages and families.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (KbCG3)

70 "None of this is natural. Unless you consider politics, and the various ways humans F up their civilizations to be natural.
Posted by: BurtTC"

I do. Humans gotta human.

Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:23 AM (PLXMa)

Sure. Abortion is natural, communism is natural, world wars and nukular exchanges are natural. Gain of function research is natural.

All part of God's plan.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (Cp+5w)

71 Barbra Streisand @BarbraStreisand
The NY Post is printing lies about President Biden. No other media outlets should amplify its disinformation.

.. is she so tone deaf that she hasn't heard of the "Streisand Effect"

Posted by: SMOD at June 19, 2024 11:27 AM (GITLP)

72 Who knows? Maybe it ain't just us. I remember running across a book or article about the search for advanced civilizations in space -- if they're supposed to be out there, where is everybody?

Could be we're about to find out the hard way?

Posted by: Just Some Guy

If you haven't read The ThreeBody Problem by Cixin Liu, you should. It is one answer to your question.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at June 19, 2024 11:27 AM (t/2Uw)

73 We must stop the poison being pumped out of our nation's universities.

An almost impossible task.

Posted by: Not trying to be mean but... at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (ppOTy)

74 Our culture has become so cynical in regards to marriage. If we're going to promote healthier marriages and families, we need to actually promote healthy marriages and families.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (KbCG3)
++++
Yup. Marriage has been under low-grade (and sometimes high-grade) attack for a long time.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (d04cU)

75 Depopulation does not bother me as much as the replacement we are having shoved down our throats. The population will stabilize eventually but will cause some pain along the way. Beside there are a LOT of people that probably shouldn't be raising or even having kids anyways. But what the ruling class is doing to us is destroying our culture and future without much realistic thought to what the country will look like in a few decades.

Posted by: Ripley at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (xwuga)

76
Today, June 19, is the day the United Nations will observe the annual International Day for the Elimination of Sexual Violence in Conflict.

Juneteenth

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (63Dwl)

77 Look, I did my part - I had seven children - that I know of.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (WXNFJ)

78 If you haven't read The ThreeBody Problem by Cixin Liu, you should. It is one answer to your question.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at June 19, 2024 11:27 AM (t/2Uw)

Ugh!

Awful book!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 11:29 AM (d9fT1)

79 "ure. Abortion is natural, communism is natural, world wars and nukular exchanges are natural. Gain of function research is natural.

All part of God's plan.
Posted by: BurtTC "

Maybe he didn't think it all the way thru.

Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:31 AM (PLXMa)

80 Depopulation does not bother me as much as the replacement we are having shoved down our throats. The population will stabilize eventually but will cause some pain along the way. ... But what the ruling class is doing to us is destroying our culture and future without much realistic thought to what the country will look like in a few decades.
Posted by: Ripley at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (xwuga)
++++
There are two meta-approaches to the problem:
1. Ride it out
2. Import a new population from anywhere you can find one

Japan has chosen Door Number 1. Korea, so far, has done the same. China will do the same, in part because there's no population reservoir big enough to patch the hole there.

The West, writ large, has chosen Door Number 2, at least so far.

Japan - weaker and smaller - may exist in 100 years. Much of the West will not.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:31 AM (d04cU)

81 75 Our culture has become so cynical in regards to marriage. If we're going to promote healthier marriages and families, we need to actually promote healthy marriages and families.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:26 AM (KbCG3)

++++
Yup. Marriage has been under low-grade (and sometimes high-grade) attack for a long time.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (d04cU)

Most notably, look at Hollywood. A bunch of maladjusted, broken people telling stories about maladjusted, broken people.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:31 AM (KbCG3)

82 NO, global "depopulation" is not a problem - there are far, far too many people in the world, and if you don't think that, you haven't traveled around the world much, where places you think would be small and quaint are jammed with high rises and slums as far as the eye can see, even in small little countries.

When I was a kid there were about 200 million Americans and things were far, FAR better than today (330 million plus), and things worked better than today with a third less of the population. And the US was much more pleasant - you didn't need a year reservation to get into a National Park, you could actually get out of the cities into the country, and airports, schools, hospitals weren't jammed 24/7.

The "problem" is how governments fund themselves and especially pay for retirement and welfare programs. It is a giant Ponzi scheme, and the people screaming "depopulation" are basically the ones figuring out there are not enough new suckers to scheme into the giant pyramid of the social programs.

The solution to "depopulation" is to change the worlds financial system and Ponzi shemes. The problem is not to up the population to keep the Ponzi schemes going.

Posted by: whatever at June 19, 2024 11:31 AM (uFEKx)

83 What has happened--and this is not entirely on governments, but they sure as hell facilitated and amplified it--is a general decay of the human spirit. I can't do justice to the entirety of how it happened but big parts are creeping secularism that renders human living meaningless, constant pushing of pessimistic anti-human propaganda, and constant restrictions on the most basic of human activities for purposes of virtue signaling and arrogation of power. There's a lot more but those three are off the top of my head."

Niall Ferguson has written a great piece with the idea that We in the US are now late stage Soviets. The evidence is far more compelling than we'd like to believe.
https://www.thefp.com/p/were-all-soviets-now
He points out that life expectancy in the US is now actually decreasing, due to a large increase in "deaths of despair", including alcoholism, rampant drug use, and suicide. "In 2022 alone, more Americans died of fentanyl overdoses than were killed in three major wars: Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan."

Posted by: Tom Servo at June 19, 2024 11:32 AM (wyMQY)

84 to see what if anything works

It might help to recognize that forces are coordinating to prevent anything from working. Call that a conspiracy theory if you want, but I think this is about as organic as all other efforts to overthrow the republic. None of this is just happening.

Posted by: The Illusion of Freedom at June 19, 2024 11:32 AM (DctLG)

85 Abortion is natural, communism is natural, world wars and nukular exchanges are natural. Gain of function research is natural.

All part of God's plan.
Posted by: BurtTC "

Maybe he didn't think it all the way thru.
Posted by: fd

Sure He did: God gave humans everything we need to live a good, moral life. He also allowed us to completely destroy ourselves.

Choose wisely Grasshopper.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM (WXNFJ)

86 Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)
++++
And undesirable men get nothing. Half of men under 30 don't date or pursue women *at all* anymore, which is a serious problem if you want people to get married and have kids. The top quarter is knee-deep in casual sex, the next quarter has some semi-routine access, the next quarter burned out and gave up, the bottom quarter never had access in the first place and threw in the towel early.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:24 AM (d04cU)
_____

I don't disagree, but the undesirable men -- or the less desirable men -- could do better if they put some effort in. I'm continually amazed at how poorly many guys (mostly younger guys) plan for dates and how little effort they put in. Girls notice that and tune out if they aren't actively repelled. Attractive girls have no shortage of guys chasing them. If you drop the ball, they're like "NEXT!"

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM (iFTx/)

87 Juneteenth

National parks are free today.

They aren't free on the Fourth of July.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM (uxCna)

88 An almost impossible task.
Posted by: Not trying to be mean but... at June 19, 2024 11:28 AM (ppOTy)

People who don't support their way of life could stop sending their children to them.

And we could end taxpayer "loans" to these schools.

Neither of those things are impossible.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:34 AM (b9y9p)

89 73,
Thanks, Sharon. Sending a sample to the Kindle. May be a while, though -- the Amazing Colossal To-Be-Read Pile is already huge enough to last me or my ghost until after the Second Coming.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at June 19, 2024 11:34 AM (q3u5l)

90 All these "incentives" are really just pointing out many of the reasons people aren't having kids.
"Honey were pregnant."
At that moment you're on the hook for a shit ton of work and money.
And at birth in the US the kid is what... $150,000 in debt.

Posted by: Reforger at June 19, 2024 11:34 AM (xcIvR)

91 Maybe he didn't think it all the way thru.
Posted by: fd at June 19, 2024 11:31 AM (PLXMa)

I'm sure that's it.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:34 AM (b9y9p)

92 What are foreigners doing about it?

*checks teeth in mirror*
*adjusts tie*

OK ladies, call for an appointment. But never on a Sunday.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 19, 2024 11:35 AM (W/lyH)

93 Yup. Marriage has been under low-grade (and sometimes high-grade) attack for a long time.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

Most notably, look at Hollywood. A bunch of maladjusted, broken people telling stories about maladjusted, broken people.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

Oh come on! Theresa Dunn in Looking for Mr. Goodbar was stunning, brave and living her best life!! Amirite?

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:35 AM (WXNFJ)

94 National parks are free today.

They aren't free on the Fourth of July.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM (uxCna)

They're full of Chinese tourists on the 4th of July.

You'd be better off going today, even if it wasn't free.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:36 AM (b9y9p)

95 Today's Accuweather propaganda forecast: "Hot with times of sun and clouds; stay hydrated with temperatures remaining dangerously high."

Forecast high - 91. (Six degrees above historical average, "real feel" heat index won't even reach 100.)

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 11:36 AM (Dm8we)

96 He points out that life expectancy in the US is now actually decreasing, due to a large increase in "deaths of despair", including alcoholism, rampant drug use, and suicide. "In 2022 alone, more Americans died of fentanyl overdoses than were killed in three major wars: Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan."
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 19, 2024 11:32 AM (wyMQY)

Processed foods enter the chat.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:38 AM (b9y9p)

97 You aren't going to promote healthy marriages and families until FEMINISM is rooted out of the CHURCH. The church, every denomination, has to purge itself of all the secular, politically correct BS it has absorbed into its teachings. The church is ANTI-MALE.

Mothers Day at church; women praised to the hilt.

Fathers Day at church: men ostracized and told they're pieces of shit that need to do better.

"......this doesn't happen at my church you lousy bastard JROD!!!"

Bullshit. It does.

We need an enlightenment.......or something. Our churches and Christianity in the western world need to be reformed and strengthened. It needs to start in the church.

Posted by: JROD at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (IlL6s)

98 Throwing money might help a little, but my theory is that leisure time has now increased so much in value, that it is far more valuable now than it was in the past. Think about your childhood...you were bored sometimes. now there is 24/7 entertainment.

So, in Korea, children = lots of house work, stress for exams, and loots and lots of cram school, and husbands who don't help.

So why would you have kids when you could binge watch shit instead?

My suggested policy would be to tax the childless.

Posted by: Harun at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (IuIym)

99 Rekieta slow train wreck continues. Here he is "not" talking about his case. For 22 minutes:
youtube.com/watch?v=UBPIHq7bEnc

The TV series American Crime Story will make an ass-kicking season out of this story. If nobody else beats them to it.

Posted by: gp's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (MvF+J)

100 I don't disagree, but the undesirable men -- or the less desirable men -- could do better if they put some effort in. I'm continually amazed at how poorly many guys (mostly younger guys) plan for dates and how little effort they put in. Girls notice that and tune out if they aren't actively repelled. Attractive girls have no shortage of guys chasing them. If you drop the ball, they're like "NEXT!"

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM (iFTx/)

Spot on. Sure, there are some guys who are just hopeless but so many are simply too lazy or immature. If you don't care to put in any effort, why should anyone care? You have nothing to offer.

We have a lot of adult males in this world, very few men.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (KbCG3)

101 You asked for it:

https://tinyurl.com/mum5efhp
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:22 AM

Heh. Saw that at the theater Saturday. Always a great show.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (Wnv9h)

102 If this is a problem, why all the emphasis on gender identity, LGBTQ+, abortion. Everything that the government is doing discourages normal male/female interactions. The government is actually forcing this agenda on us. It is somehow wrong to be heterosexual.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at June 19, 2024 11:39 AM (t/2Uw)

103 We need an enlightenment.......or something. Our churches and Christianity in the western world need to be reformed and strengthened. It needs to start in the church.

mainstream Christianity has been heavily feminized, and has embraced a lot of feminism as a result, which no doubt contributes to falling attendance

Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:41 AM (25k9m)

104 I can't find any mention of this on the site but it looks like Los Angeles now has its own Daniel Penny. Evil DA Gascon, what say you?

https://tinyurl.com/2a4tfu2n

Posted by: PJ at June 19, 2024 11:42 AM (G1dq6)

105 An interesting related problem is youth dating. Something like 75% of Boomers dated in high school. Under half of Zoomers do or did. They're giving up earlier than ever.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:24

The teens in my area are mostly doing group outings instead of one-on-one dates.
During Covid, some boys watched a lot of porn, and the girls are leery of being sexual experiments. The ones who are dating have known each other for years.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 19, 2024 11:43 AM (5L1F8)

106 ...and I would not do a conventional tax.

I would do a labor corvee.

So the childless would be forced to work 1 day per week doing chores for families.

This would reduce the work of those with children and increase the worklload of the childfree.

So, mowing lawns, folding laundry etc.

(I know it won't be practical)

Posted by: Harun at June 19, 2024 11:43 AM (IuIym)

107 I think we also need to determine the reasons for the dropoff in male fertility. Not just sperm count, but why more and more males are content not having sex. Libido is in decline, and nobody is completely sure why, but I suspect many of the chemicals we encounter on a daily basis have a lot to do with it.

That's a relatively easy partial fix, involving the banning of particularly problematic chemicals such as plasticizers.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:44 AM (xCA6C)

108
Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)

This only applies to a very small percentage of men. Most men have little or no sexual access.

Posted by: Be Chad, don't not be Chad at June 19, 2024 11:44 AM (mIzto)

109 Had my Gen Z babysitter tell us boys of her generation are either extremely effeminate or obsessed with porn, or both, so dating is difficult. Maybe they'll grow out of it, but probably not

Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:45 AM (25k9m)

110 108 I think we also need to determine the reasons for the dropoff in male fertility. Not just sperm count, but why more and more males are content not having sex. Libido is in decline, and nobody is completely sure why, but I suspect many of the chemicals we encounter on a daily basis have a lot to do with it.

That's a relatively easy partial fix, involving the banning of particularly problematic chemicals such as plasticizers.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:44 AM (xCA6C)

Ugh, going to sound like an old man but video games and porn.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:45 AM (KbCG3)

111 Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)

This only applies to a very small percentage of men. Most men have little or no sexual access.

Even assuming you're both right, that still leaves the problem of the asexual herbivores.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:46 AM (xCA6C)

112 At my church, there are three levels of men: men, fathers, and KofC.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 19, 2024 11:46 AM (5L1F8)

113 An interesting related problem is youth dating. Something like 75% of Boomers dated in high school. Under half of Zoomers do or did. They're giving up earlier than ever.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:24

Eldest granddaughter of Diogenes had her high school experience pretty much ruined by covid and doesn't date in college. Granddaughter #2 does the group thing but never had a boy friend per ce. Both are very attractive young women. I am not worried about them...yet.

Posted by: Diogenes at June 19, 2024 11:46 AM (W/lyH)

114 Ugh, going to sound like an old man but video games and porn.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:45 AM (KbCG3)
++++
That's a part of it, yes, and I think it's an important part.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:46 AM (d04cU)

115 Well I guess we're going to start sharing lifetime body counts. Mine's under ten.

Posted by: gp's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (MvF+J)

116 28

Is it a bad sign if she's scrolling through BookFace while you're sexing her butt?

Posted by: Robert at June 19, 2024 11:10 AM (mfUZH)
----
Well you'll never make babies that way. It's the 'bonus' hole not the fartclam.

Posted by: Ciampino - Wed Update #03 at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (qfLjt)

117 Ugh, going to sound like an old man but video games and porn.

No, you don't sound old. I agree with you completely. That's why I said a "partial fix". Even if it turns out that chemicals aren't a significant contributor, we should at least eliminate them as a suspect.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (xCA6C)

118 I think we also need to determine the reasons for the dropoff in male fertility.

average testosterone levels have been dropping for decades (and coincide nicely with the push against "toxic masculinity" if I put my tinfoil hat on)

exposure to certain plastics, phytoestrogens, seed oils, lack of sunlight, lack of exercise, environmental estrogens, pot use -- all lower testosterone

Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (25k9m)

119 97 He points out that life expectancy in the US is now actually decreasing, due to a large increase in "deaths of despair", including alcoholism, rampant drug use, and suicide. "In 2022 alone, more Americans died of fentanyl overdoses than were killed in three major wars: Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan."
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 19, 2024 11:32 AM (wyMQY)

Processed foods enter the chat.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:38 AM (b9y9p)

I was gonna add sedentary lifestyle and pharmaceutical pills for lifestyle (birth control as one example) also into the chat.

Posted by: Nova Local at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (exHjb)

120
mainstream Christianity has been heavily feminized, and has embraced a lot of feminism as a result, which no doubt contributes to falling attendance
Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:41 AM (25k9m)

Guys don't really want to go to a Father's Day service to be harangued about what losers they are and how they need to "step up" when the same pastors on Mother's Day talk about what amazing and holy gifts from god women are.

Posted by: This happens more than you think at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (mIzto)

121 this doesn't happen at my church you lousy bastard JROD!!!"

Bullshit. It does.

I wouldn't ever call you a losy bastard, but it doesn't happen at my church. We had a song "Faith of Our Fathers", my husband gave the message (a father always gives the message) and we also had a time of sharing where people shared what they learned, valued and appreciated about their fathers and then we prayed a prayer in part about thanking people for wonderful fathers, Oh, yes, we also sang "This is my father's world" about God our father.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (XkYcA)

122 I see people that are good at dating but don't know how to maintain a relationship. And there are too many women that don't seem to understand that a single mom raises a kid on one income, something they say is impossible if it's a guy with a stay at home wife.

Do any of those cultures put restrictions on birth control? Cause you have to start there.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (xjTDL)

123 Who knows? Maybe it ain't just us. I remember running across a book or article about the search for advanced civilizations in space -- if they're supposed to be out there, where is everybody?

Could be we're about to find out the hard way?
Posted by: Just Some Guy

If you haven't read The ThreeBody Problem by Cixin Liu, you should. It is one answer to your question.
Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice)

There have been a lot of theories about "The Great Filter" of the Fermi Paradox. The "Dark Forest" hypothesis strikes me as a characteristically Chinese way of viewing the question. The idea of social entropy kicking in has a lot of merit as well. I suspect we'll never really know.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (OUMaO)

124 Well you'll never make babies that way. It's the 'bonus' hole not the fartclam.
Posted by: Ciampino

Huh! The things you learn here. This explains a few awkward moments.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:49 AM (WXNFJ)

125 exposure to certain plastics, phytoestrogens, seed oils, lack of sunlight, lack of exercise, environmental estrogens, pot use -- all lower testosterone

Hence the push to eat zee bugs. No chance of much protein there.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:49 AM (Q0kLU)

126 BTW, I can't recommend the Niall Ferguson article mentioned in #83 enough.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:49 AM (xCA6C)

127 National parks are free today.

They aren't free on the Fourth of July.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at June 19, 2024 11:33 AM

I wonder if this is because it's not a real holiday?

Posted by: NaughtyPine at June 19, 2024 11:49 AM (5L1F8)

128 The thing for women is THE WALL. After 30 she becomes less fertile, has a load of personal baggage, and has gone through multiple men. So she is no longer wife material. So many of them pretend this isn't so, but it is so.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at June 19, 2024 11:50 AM (pohLc)

129 Guys don't really want to go to a Father's Day service to be harangued about what losers they are and how they need to "step up" when the same pastors on Mother's Day talk about what amazing and holy gifts from god women are.

Posted by: This happens more than you think at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (mIzto)

I can say that at my church, there was a distinct difference but I think it was a good one. The men weren't harangued but were called to greatness, in a way.

I think we make a mistake as men when we want to be celebrated instead of challenged. Celebrate my wife for the great woman she is. Challenge me to be a better man.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:50 AM (KbCG3)

130 Processed foods enter the chat.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:38 AM (b9y9p)

I was gonna add sedentary lifestyle and pharmaceutical pills for lifestyle (birth control as one example) also into the chat.

Posted by: Nova Local at June 19, 2024 11:47 AM (exHjb)

Oh yes, and let's be clear, the pharmaceutical industrial complex is set up in large part to feed consumers drugs that are meant to counteract all the bad habits we engage in, that cause all the maladies we suffer from.

We're almost literally fattened up cows, so they can feed us their "solutions."

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (4nh7V)

131
That's a relatively easy partial fix, involving the banning of particularly problematic chemicals such as ~~plasticizers~~ birth control pills.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:44 AM (xCA6C)

Fix-ed.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (MoZTd)

132 I strongly suspect that declining fertility is far more a social phenomenon than a biological phenomenon. Declining sperm count is a serious red flag and indicator that something is terribly wrong somewhere, but it hasn't declined to the point of infertility.

Age is a big part of it. Deferring family formation for women decreases volume of children and increases the potential for problems and negative outcomes and that is a biological reality but it's amplified by the social side of it.

The longer you wait to start, the harder it will be and fewer children you will have. Time is a harsh mistress.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (d04cU)

133 Even assuming you're both right, that still leaves the problem of the asexual herbivores.

Posted by: Archimedes

In older days many would have gone into the priesthood or such. I suspect it's always been with us. Now the social mechanisms to find a decent place for folks outside a certain base profile are completely broken, often intentionally. The results are pretty damn clear to see.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (OUMaO)

134 That's a relatively easy partial fix, involving the banning of particularly problematic chemicals such as plasticizers birth control pills.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:44 AM (xCA6C)

Fix-ed.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (MoZTd)

Pope Paul VI was a pretty prescient fellow.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (Q0kLU)

135 How anybody can even properly afford to start a family today baffles me.

Posted by: gp's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (MvF+J)

136 Ugh, going to sound like an old man but video games and porn.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer
_____________

I'm not sure about video games. I bet my generation (older gen x) spent as much time on Atari, Nintendo, Playstation, and at arcades as these current kids do on video games. Probably some data on that somewhere.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (Dm8we)

137 120
mainstream Christianity has been heavily feminized, and has embraced a lot of feminism as a result, which no doubt contributes to falling attendance
Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 11:41 AM (25k9m)

Guys don't really want to go to a Father's Day service to be harangued about what losers they are and how they need to "step up" when the same pastors on Mother's Day talk about what amazing and holy gifts from god women are.
Posted by: This happens more than you think at June 19, 2024 11:48 AM (mIzto)

I've written off organized Christianity altogether.

It is filled with soy.

Posted by: Shame, But This Religion Could Never Replicate The Templars at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (DctLG)

138 I think we make a mistake as men when we want to be celebrated instead of challenged. Celebrate my wife for the great woman she is. Challenge me to be a better man.

Yes. Very good. Men aren't women, and while they don't want to be treated like dirt, they also don't respond to the same inducements as women.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (xCA6C)

139 Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the one advanced country with above-replacement birth rates is Israel. Maybe it's because there really is something bracing and energizing about genuine challenges in life, and a more important mission than simply minimizing pain and maximizing pleasure. Just saying.

Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (wwf+q)

140 @121 Fenelon Spoke-you have been vile towards me in the past.
You said you used to be a liberal, I believe it because of how you resort to feminist talking points on these subjects. It's obvious. Not an attack, just an observation. Several other female commenters do it here and some of the males.

Posted by: JROD at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (IlL6s)

141 Y'all:
I said "Go forth and multiply."
It was simple.

Buncha morons.

Posted by: God at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (AbL8c)

142 Crowder's show today is about an investigation they did into the Butler County Ohio student program, that led to a 17 year old girl being sex trafficked and becoming a drug mule for criminals in federal prison.

Yay.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (4nh7V)

143 By the time we reached our 20th HS reunion, we found that over 70% of our graduating class was divorced. A class of 525. Some were on their third marriage. We graduated in 1966.

Wife and I were both members of that class, began dating two months after HS. We just passed our 52nd anniversary.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (iODuv)

144 In the Baptist churches I attend, there ain't no damn soy, and Dads are recognized and honored.

Posted by: Xipe Totec at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (pohLc)

145 Well you'll never make babies that way. It's the 'bonus' hole not the fartclam.
Posted by: Ciampino

If she yells, "agujero equivocado!" you know you are doing it wrong.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (OuWLw)

146 Men? They can get whatever they want -- even if it's just sex -- quite easily and without any commitment. A desirable man will have multiple women vying for his attention. So of course men respond and react accordingly.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:19 AM (iFTx/)

This only applies to a very small percentage of men. Most men have little or no sexual access.

Even assuming you're both right, that still leaves the problem of the asexual herbivores.
Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:46 AM (xCA6C)
______

As we used to say in the car business, "there's an ass for every seat." The problem with many less-desirable men is the same as with many less-desirable women: they are aiming too high. The high school dork ain't getting the head cheerleader. The fat girl at the punchbowl ain't getting the football star. If they played in their own field, they would do a lot better.

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)

147 It's not as prevalent in Japan (probably because their entertainment is focused on those below twenty), but I have noticed that Korean entertainment, specifically romance, is focused on late-twenties/early-thirties characters. A standard plotline involves a woman who is 28 and a successful man who is either 24 or 32 (older than her if he's spent time abroad, younger if the author wants him to be a entrepreneur/brash).

Think about that. Not starting to look for someone to marry until you're almost thirty. No wonder their fertility is in the dumps.

Posted by: pookysgirl, going off of manhwa and K-Dramas at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (dtlDP)

148 We just passed our 52nd anniversary.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy

Congrats!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (Ka3bZ)

149 The longer you wait to start, the harder it will be and fewer children you will have. Time is a harsh mistress.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (d04cU)

Yes, but let's not forget another factor: cost.

You come out of college in massive debt, find a low-paying job that barely allows you to afford rent.

It's hard to see over the horizon and envision a financial uplift in having a kid. Much easier and more realistic to support yourself and only yourself.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (KbCG3)

150 Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but the one advanced country with above-replacement birth rates is Israel. Maybe it's because there really is something bracing and energizing about genuine challenges in life, and a more important mission than simply minimizing pain and maximizing pleasure. Just saying.
Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (wwf+q)
++++
I wonder what happens if you remove the Hasadim from the equation. I'll have to go look to see if that datum exists. It would not surprise me that if the ultra-orthodox are removed from the data set, Israel is in decline. It would be an interesting thing to see, though. I will throw it on my pile of things to look into.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (d04cU)

151 Wife and I were both members of that class, began dating two months after HS. We just passed our 52nd anniversary.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy

Congratulations!

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (OuWLw)

152 JROD, WTF? She brings up a specific counterpoint of her own experience and you go for the jugular? Someone piss in your Kaboom this morning or something?

Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (OUMaO)

153 Just sayin, as a young person, I see both sides of the aisle fearmonger so much and so constantly about the state of the world, pointing and screaming at their coming desired apocalypse-of-choice and offering no semblence of a practical solution. This, combined with the disdain, arrogance and pity that the older generations feel about the young people today in regards to said state of the world, when it's not our fault, we *just got here*, it's disheartening as f*ck.
The elders don't care about us, and their incompetant greed is causing a societal collapse the likes of which our world has never seen before. The modern world grew with no provisions for us. They treat us like human-insect-units to feed the cancerous growth of queens and their unnatural machines for their enrichment and we just have to wallow in the scraps that only poison and sicken us more.
This world f*cking sucks, and it's the fault of who we are supposed to trust. 9/11 happened when I was a toddler - we have never felt safe or protected. And with how coddled or neglected most of us have been, most of us are not up to the task of bringing the world back from the brink of our parents' failure. Doom awaits the weak

Posted by: Little Dawg Dave at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (nqEci)

154 sted by: JROD at June 19, 2024 11:53 AM (IlL6s)

I've been vile to you?. I called you rude names? Disagreement is not vile. Yes, I can see where talking about a Father's Day Service where fathers were celebrated is a feminist talking point. Uhhh huh

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (XkYcA)

155 The problem with many less-desirable men is the same as with many less-desirable women: they are aiming too high. The high school dork ain't getting the head cheerleader. The fat girl at the punchbowl ain't getting the football star. If they played in their own field, they would do a lot better.

I have it on good authority (Hollywood) that all they need to do is let their hair down and take off their glasses (women) or trick women by wearing a mask, then being the enormous stud muffin we know them to be.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:56 AM (xCA6C)

156 And for the record the Global Methodist congregation I've been attending since January is on point on these and other matters so far as I've seen. Yes there are garbage denominations, but also a lot that have their heads screwed on proper.

Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:56 AM (OUMaO)

157 The longer you wait to start, the harder it will be and fewer children you will have. Time is a harsh mistress.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:51 AM (d04cU)

And there are multiple issues that are correlated with delayed child bearing.

But we can look at the 1960s as the period where it began in earnest.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 11:57 AM (d9fT1)

158 Even assuming you're both right, that still leaves the problem of the asexual herbivores.

Posted by: Archimedes

In older days many would have gone into the priesthood or such. I suspect it's always been with us. Now the social mechanisms to find a decent place for folks outside a certain base profile are completely broken, often intentionally. The results are pretty damn clear to see.
Posted by: Brother Tim

Lack of wars.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:57 AM (OuWLw)

159 Crowder's show today is about an investigation they did into the Butler County Ohio student program, that led to a 17 year old girl being sex trafficked and becoming a drug mule for criminals in federal prison.

Yay.
Posted by: BurtTC

The biggest source, by far, of human trafficking here in our county is the foster parent program. I shit you not.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:57 AM (WXNFJ)

160 As we used to say in the car business, "there's an ass for every seat." The problem with many less-desirable men is the same as with many less-desirable women: they are aiming too high. The high school dork ain't getting the head cheerleader. The fat girl at the punchbowl ain't getting the football star. If they played in their own field, they would do a lot better.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)
++++
"An ass for every seat" requires that asses and seats are in 1:1 relationship, at least approximately. Staggering numbers of women are essentially in harems. They're willing to share that top percentage if it means they get to have fun with it.

Lower-tier women can land higher-tier men fairly easily. They can't get those men to marry them (or often even take them seriously), but they can get those men to have some fun with them for a while and then that's the level. Nobody less will do.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:58 AM (d04cU)

161 Posted by: Brother Tim sez fuck cancer at June 19, 2024 11:56 AM (OUMaO)

Glad you are going to church (Hope it is helpful) and yes-The Global Methodist Church is conservative.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 11:58 AM (XkYcA)

162 We have it covered.

Posted by: Mohammad, Mohamed, Mehmet, and Mohamad at June 19, 2024 11:59 AM (wGerL)

163 The elders don't care about us, and their incompetant greed is causing a societal collapse the likes of which our world has never seen before. The modern world grew with no provisions for us. They treat us like human-insect-units to feed the cancerous growth of queens and their unnatural machines for their enrichment and we just have to wallow in the scraps that only poison and sicken us more.
This world f*cking sucks, and it's the fault of who we are supposed to trust. 9/11 happened when I was a toddler - we have never felt safe or protected. And with how coddled or neglected most of us have been, most of us are not up to the task of bringing the world back from the brink of our parents' failure.

Dude. Read what you wrote. Today's kids are the OPPOSITE of neglected. You've been handed an easier life than any generation in history. Man up and stop blaming others for your shortcomings.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 11:59 AM (xCA6C)

164 136 Ugh, going to sound like an old man but video games and porn.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer
_____________

I'm not sure about video games. I bet my generation (older gen x) spent as much time on Atari, Nintendo, Playstation, and at arcades as these current kids do on video games. Probably some data on that somewhere.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 11:52 AM (Dm8we)

I grew up on Nintendo and PlayStation. What I didn't also have was a gaming system where all my friends could play together. Also didn't have SnapChat and texting to stay connected to friends or girls I may have been interested.

At some point, you needed to disconnect. Not so today.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:59 AM (KbCG3)

165 Don't try to marry the head cheerleader. Take it from me. I've got stories. Yeesh.

Posted by: brak at June 19, 2024 12:00 PM (25k9m)

166 Wife and I were both members of that class, began dating two months after HS. We just passed our 52nd anniversary.
Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy

Congratulations!
Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (OuWLw)

Thank you! And we never had a fight. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Me....Hungarian/Slovak ancestry. Outward yeller.
Her....Irish. But, not an emotional type. Stews, instead.
Total opposites.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at June 19, 2024 12:00 PM (iODuv)

167 140
‘ Fenelon Spoke-you have been vile towards me in the past’

Objection!
Facts not in evidence.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 19, 2024 12:01 PM (jbnUc)

168 It would not surprise me that if the ultra-orthodox are removed from the data set, Israel is in decline.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (d04cU)

Removing the Haredim still yields a birthrate of something like 2.4 for Jews in Israel.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (d9fT1)

169 Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at June 19, 2024 12:00 PM (iODuv)

Congratulations! That's wonderful. God bless you both.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (XkYcA)

170 And with how coddled or neglected most of us have been, most of us are not up to the task of bringing the world back from the brink of our parents' failure. Doom awaits the weak

Posted by: Little Dawg Dave at June 19, 2024 11:55 AM (nqEci)

Stop thinking about the world. Think about your home. You're smart enough to recognize that you haven't been given the tools you need. Go find them. Plenty of good role models out there who came from your circumstances.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (KbCG3)

171 The biggest source, by far, of human trafficking here in our county is the foster parent program. I shit you not.
Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 11:57 AM (WXNFJ)

I don't doubt it. This stuff is a part of the cycle, and frankly, I've come to believe the greatest human ill is the abuse and neglect that happens to countless children, especially early on.

Damn near everything starts there. And we have so-called leaders who not only don't do anything about it, but actively participate in it. One way or another.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (4nh7V)

172 I really don’t fully understand this. Countries don’t need to be overpopulated, like the USA.
They only need enough to maintain their status of living.

We could ship a million illegals there, they populate like rabbits.

They have been smart and not let in much “immigrants “.

Generally more immigrants, more short and long term trouble

Posted by: Gonzotx at June 19, 2024 12:03 PM (MwHgU)

173

I volunteer to go to Japan and certain other asian countries and help them increase their population.

Posted by: Dirty Frank at June 19, 2024 12:03 PM (KyI4t)

174 Don't try to marry the head cheerleader. Take it from me. I've got stories. Yeesh.

I didn't marry the prom queen, I married the girl who organized the whole damn thing, and is still organizing EVERYTHING to this day. To say she's someone you can count on is to sell her way short.

Life is much, MUCH easier when you have that.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 12:03 PM (xCA6C)

175 I grew up on Nintendo and PlayStation. What I didn't also have was a gaming system where all my friends could play together. Also didn't have SnapChat and texting to stay connected to friends or girls I may have been interested.

At some point, you needed to disconnect. Not so today.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer
____________

All of those gaming systems allowed you to play together with your friends. Just had to be in person. Don't know how much time I wasted playing Air/Sea Battle against friends on the Atari. But maybe the in person vs online difference does contribute somehow.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (Dm8we)

176 Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)
++++
"An ass for every seat" requires that asses and seats are in 1:1 relationship, at least approximately. Staggering numbers of women are essentially in harems. They're willing to share that top percentage if it means they get to have fun with it.

Lower-tier women can land higher-tier men fairly easily. They can't get those men to marry them (or often even take them seriously), but they can get those men to have some fun with them for a while and then that's the level. Nobody less will do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 11:58 AM (d04cU)
_________

There's always enough asses for enough seats if you look. There are a LOT of single women and single men. That's part of the whole problem. Even if you take out the top end of desirables, you are still left with a lot of available people. If they did a better job sorting themselves out by desirability, they would have more dating luck. If that's indeed what they wanted (and I'm not sure they do).

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (iFTx/)

177 ANALYSIS: To Reverse Canada’s Declining Birth Rate, Cultural Changes May Be More Important Than Economic Ones

Tesla CEO and X owner Elon Musk says the “biggest problem that humanity faces is population collapse.” The business magnate isn’t the only one to point out the severity of the declining birth rates situation that many countries face.

A Lancet study published in March warned that by the end of the century, fertility rates in 198 out of 204 countries will be too low to sustain their populations, with Sub-Saharan Africa accounting for one in every two children born.

While many governments, such as Sweden, Norway, and Taiwan, have attempted pro-natalist economic policies to encourage their citizens to have more children, they have ultimately been largely ineffective in reversing the decline.
https://archive.ph/iSduG

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (ZdexC)

178
The problem with churches nowadays is that they've stopped telling people to do what's right and not do what's wrong. Instead, God always loves you no matter what. That's true, He loves us like a Father, but screw up enough and you'll be disinherited.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 19, 2024 12:05 PM (MoZTd)

179 Removing the Haredim still yields a birthrate of something like 2.4 for Jews in Israel.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (d9fT1)
++++
Huh. Good for them.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:05 PM (d04cU)

180 Mayorkas responded, “Jim, first and foremost, of course, our hearts break for the children, the families, the loved ones, the friends of the individual who was murdered, the woman, the mother. Jim, a criminal is responsible for the criminal act. The criminal who committed this heinous act should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law, and forcefully so. That is my response.”

a criminal is responsible for the criminal act .. I assume that goes for guns as well

Posted by: SMOD at June 19, 2024 12:05 PM (GITLP)

181 ... If they did a better job sorting themselves out by desirability, they would have more dating luck. If that's indeed what they wanted (and I'm not sure they do).
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (iFTx/)
++++
This is one of the things churches and parents used to do.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (d04cU)

182 Congratulations! That's wonderful. God bless you both.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (XkYcA)

Thank you, Fen. It's been some journey, for sure.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (iODuv)

183 Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (Dm8we)

Intellivision Sea Battle was the best. The little PT boat running circles around the battleship and dropping secret mines. I am laughing now just thinking about it.

Posted by: Mohammad, Mohamed, Mehmet, and Mohamad at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (wGerL)

184 As we used to say in the car business, "there's an ass for every seat." The problem with many less-desirable men is the same as with many less-desirable women: they are aiming too high. The high school dork ain't getting the head cheerleader. The fat girl at the punchbowl ain't getting the football star. If they played in their own field, they would do a lot better.
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on.

Men have lower relative attractiveness standards than women for who they will sleep with. A 5/10 man will sleep with a 3/10 woman and maybe even a 2/10(though he wouldn't want to be seen in public with her). The women however come to self-evaluate based on the most attractive man she's ever dated or slept with. That means a 5/10 woman tends to be convinced she can land an 8/10 man. This is aggravated by the tendency of women to tell each other that they're all 10s, including the most hideous of them. Except for the actual 10s which they'll gaslight.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (eYoxG)

185 Huh. Good for them.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:05 PM (d04cU)

Yup. Israel has many problems, but that isn't one of them!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (d9fT1)

186 It's odd that the hippie generation of the late 60's , 70's with the advent of the birth control pill was so reviled due to the feminist movement and yet, everyone I know from that period ended up married and had kids.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (t/2Uw)

187 Repost from last night:

There is a very important Supreme Court Case which I have not seen discussed anywhere:

Moore v. U.S., No. 22-800 [Arg: 12.5.2023]
Issue(s): Whether the 16th Amendment authorizes Congress to tax unrealized sums without apportionment among the states.

Taxing unrealized gains, if it is allowed will be a disaster for the country, which will result in the utter destruction of the middle class. (Imagine a 20% tax on the increased value of the assessment of your house. The tax collector says its gone up $100,000 in value, so you owe $20,000 in federal taxes. Of course if the value goes down next year, you don't get any of those unrealized losses subtracted from your bill. )

Posted by: An Observation sez China Joe not my president at June 19, 2024 12:07 PM (CecP5)

188 There's always enough asses for enough seats if you look. There are a LOT of single women and single men.

Lot of single women come with some others guy's kids. NTTAWWT.

But not every guy is looking for that.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 19, 2024 12:07 PM (OuWLw)

189 The problem with churches nowadays is that they've stopped telling people to do what's right and not do what's wrong. Instead, God always loves you no matter what. That's true, He loves us like a Father, but screw up enough and you'll be disinherited.

Don't make me stop this car.
*fingers God belt*

Posted by: God at June 19, 2024 12:07 PM (xCA6C)

190 @154 Fenelon Spoke-yes you have been. I've seen you give more respect towards trolls clowning on you than me and a few other commenters here. I mentioned mine and my fathers relationship one time and you used it as a way to impugn and whack me over the head at a time when it was unnecessary. Rather than resort to doing the christian thing you used it negatively.

You are the reason I put the lousy bastard thing in my comment because you are predictable........and sure enough you popped up.

Posted by: JROD at June 19, 2024 12:07 PM (IlL6s)

191 Good rant. Thanks.

UN Global Compact for Immigration, i.,e, NEWS, GLOBAL, 06 May 2024, Launch of the official website of the Los Angeles Declaration: A Regional Commitment on Migration and Protection

In part, "We invite governments, non-governmental organizations, academics, media, and the public to visit the website, explore all the features and content endorsed by the Los Angeles Declaration endorsing states, as well as join us in promoting safe, orderly, and regular migration under the Global Compact for Migration."

Secretary Antony J. Blinken at Los Angeles Declaration on Migration and Protection Ministerial
REMARKS, NATIONAL PALACE OF CULTURE, GUATEMALA CITY, GUATEMALA, MAY 7, 2024

FJB, king of the UN. US, 3rd in population size & is planning to remain so. 'Our' responsibility and money keeps the bureaucracy rolling & they'll do as they damn please.

Posted by: L - If they do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (NFX2v)

192 Posted by: Archimedes at June 19, 2024 12:03 PM (xCA6C

Thanks. I appreciate these stories when men share what they like and love about their wives.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (XkYcA)

193 Intellivision Sea Battle was the best. The little PT boat running circles around the battleship and dropping secret mines. I am laughing now just thinking about it.
Posted by: Mohammad, Mohamed, Mehmet, and Mohamad
__________

Great game. And Utopia on Intellvision too. Those controllers were, uh ...

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (Dm8we)

194 Objection!
Facts not in evidence.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 19, 2024 12:01 PM (jbnUc)

Yep, I'm reading the comments today, and it's not there, and considering who is involved, this would be a hard case to make, without overwhelming evidence.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (BFqLx)

195 178 Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God:
https://tinyurl.com/5n73zdn5

I like it.

Posted by: gp's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (MvF+J)

196 If they did a better job sorting themselves out by desirability, they would have more dating luck. If that's indeed what they wanted (and I'm not sure they do).
Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 12:04 PM (iFTx/)
++++
This is one of the things churches and parents used to do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:06 PM (d04cU)
_____

I agree. And before SM created artificially enhanced lives and looks. The whole equation is now out of whack. I see no likelihood that it will right itself.

Posted by: Elric Blade at June 19, 2024 12:09 PM (iFTx/)

197 Posted by: JROD at June 19, 2024 12:07 PM (IlL6s)

Sorry if I impugned you.

Adios.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 12:09 PM (XkYcA)

198 I was going to say something about fine birthing thighs but I didn't won't to be banned.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at June 19, 2024 12:10 PM (J8LnB)

199 177 Don't quote Lancet like they're a reliable source on anything. They've driven the narrative on every science lie for at least 20 rears

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at June 19, 2024 12:10 PM (wBaIH)

200 ... In part, "We invite governments, non-governmental organizations, academics, media, and the public to visit the website, explore all the features and content endorsed by the Los Angeles Declaration endorsing states, as well as join us in promoting safe, orderly, and regular migration under the Global Compact for Migration." ...
Posted by: L - If they do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at June 19, 2024 12:08 PM (NFX2v)
++++
The major reason - among the smarter people in government, anyway, though they don't go on TV - for the open border is population decline. The west is broadly trying to import its way out of the problem.

It will lose itself in the process.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:10 PM (d04cU)

201 175
‘ Don't know how much time I wasted playing Air/Sea Battle against friends on the Atari’

I was able to max that out at 99 consistently and was so GD proud of that .
I guess that sounds trivial now.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM (jbnUc)

202 I really don’t fully understand this. Countries don’t need to be overpopulated, like the USA. They only need enough to maintain their status of living.

There's a connection between the risk-averse safetyism and small families. If most of society only has one, maybe two kids, parents become far more protective. Hence, the helicopter parenting.

Posted by: Safety First is Guaranteed Failure at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM (DctLG)

203 nood

Posted by: gp's Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM (MvF+J)

204 Don't quote Lancet like they're a reliable source on anything. They've driven the narrative on every science lie for at least 20 rears

Nature, once probably the most prestigious journal in all of science, has gone woke, to the point I no longer trust it.

Posted by: God at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM (xCA6C)

205 Remember last week when Bing's home page acknowledged Flag Day and Google's didn't? Today Google has a Juneteenth theme and Bing has... a cute puppy.

Posted by: Oddbob at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM (/y8xj)

206 Oh brother. Are we being chastised again?

Posted by: Dude, again? at June 19, 2024 12:12 PM (qJ19H)

207 i was first so yeah new thread.

Posted by: gnats local 678 at June 19, 2024 12:12 PM (CWTWj)

208 Oh, perhaps I am incorrect. That is just one of a set of default Brave home pages. Sorry for the misinformation.

Posted by: Oddbob at June 19, 2024 12:13 PM (/y8xj)

209 Intellivision Sea Battle was the best. The little PT boat running circles around the battleship and dropping secret mines. I am laughing now just thinking about it.
--------
Or Civilization where fortified phalanxes on hilltops could fight off armoured Tank Division attacks!

Posted by: andycanuck (ZdexC) at June 19, 2024 12:13 PM (ZdexC)

210 NOOD BOSS

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:13 PM (d04cU)

211 The folks in power don't get it. While the incentives for reproducing are nice you still need to have a culture that celebrates having families and makes it normal.

As for Japan, their younger members are not even interested in sex or having families. Maybe that's one of the reasons Shinzo Abe was murdered. His pro family stance rankled the wrong people.

Posted by: NR Pax at June 19, 2024 12:13 PM (lXCUP)

212 I saw that PrEP advertisements have been dropped from tv, or greatly reduced in nature some weeks ago, to be replaced with ads for Hospice/Palliative care; home healthcare & assistance, and more medications related to depression and other mental health-related conditions.

I'd say there's a plan to make or take $ 1st, depose of the issue 2nd.

Posted by: L - If they do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at June 19, 2024 12:15 PM (NFX2v)

213 Thanks. I appreciate these stories when men share what they like and love about their wives.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke

R. is honest, loving, and kind to a fault. She is the best thing that ever happened to me. She helps me to be a better man than I could be by myself.

Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 12:15 PM (WXNFJ)

214 I grew up on Nintendo and PlayStation. What I didn't also have was a gaming system where all my friends could play together. Also didn't have SnapChat and texting to stay connected to friends or girls I may have been interested.

At some point, you needed to disconnect. Not so today.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at June 19, 2024 11:59 AM

True, but as a counterexample, my friend's son met his sweetheart of a wife on an online gaming forum/platform/whatever. Talk about nerd calling to nerd.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 19, 2024 12:17 PM (Wnv9h)

215 179 Removing the Haredim still yields a birthrate of something like 2.4 for Jews in Israel.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 19, 2024 12:02 PM (d9fT1)
++++
Huh. Good for them.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at June 19, 2024 12:05 PM

****
Indeed. Back in the '90s, it was assumed among the "educated" that population growth in Israel was all due to the Arabs, who would soon overwhelm the country and turn it into "Palestine." Not only did that prove to be doomer propaganda, but it turns out that even the fancy-ass rich secular liberals of North Tel Aviv prioritize marriage and children. It's nice when the good guys notch an easy win.

Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at June 19, 2024 12:20 PM (wwf+q)

216 Posted by: Tonypete at June 19, 2024 12:15 PM (WXNFJ)

That's great!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 19, 2024 12:20 PM (XkYcA)

217 205 Remember last week when Bing's home page acknowledged Flag Day and Google's didn't? Today Google has a Juneteenth theme and Bing has... a cute puppy.
Posted by: Oddbob at June 19, 2024 12:11 PM
****
Bing has a Juneteenth-themed mosaic on my Bing homepage.

Posted by: werewife, princess of Delray Beach at June 19, 2024 12:22 PM (wwf+q)

218 I don't know why people are making this so complicated.

When the majority of the population in this, and every other, nation were subsistence farmers you had a large family because it meant free labor and children to take care of you when you got older.

Child mortality was also a major problem when large percentages of infants never made it to their first birthday. People had more kids to make up for it.

Today's populations are more urban/suburban.
We have private and government pensions & healthcare.
The general cost of living and taxes are much higher, so having a lot of children is impossible for most couples unless the government is paying for them through welfare schemes.

Feminism has turned a lot of women off of marriage or children. Divorce rates having turned a lot of children against marriage from watching their own parents.

There's a lot of reasons for depopulation.
Not a lot of good solutions short of total societal change or dictatorship.

Posted by: JustSpitballin at June 19, 2024 12:26 PM (6ydKt)

219 I have two beautiful, smart, educated, married daughters. One has eight children, the other has five. We are doing our part.

Posted by: esteve at June 19, 2024 12:32 PM (weH2K)

220 I have three GenZers(19, 24, 26) and here in communist MN life is barely affordable. One daughter and her family moved to Texas where life is 25% cheaper.

To solve this you simply do what Ronaldus and Trump did:

- Unleash hydrocarbon energy
- Lower the corporate tax rate
- Deregulate
- Tighten the money supply

Life will flourish quite nicely - remember Feb 2020.

Posted by: Danimal28 at June 19, 2024 01:21 PM (klw0w)

221 The primary driver of lack of making enough babies are social welfare programs that tell people that they can grow old and have other people's children support their old age.

Keeping social security and medicare is begging for declines in births.

Posted by: MarineVet at June 19, 2024 01:35 PM (VcZlJ)

222 I didn't read all the comments, so I don't know if this has already been said, but the Korean idiom that gets translated as "blind date" means "looking for marriage."

Posted by: pkudude99 at June 19, 2024 02:50 PM (WwZ5M)

223 Feminism has turned a lot of women off of marriage or children. Divorce rates having turned a lot of children against marriage from watching their own parents.

There's a lot of reasons for depopulation.
Not a lot of good solutions short of total societal change or dictatorship.

Posted by: JustSpitballin at June 19, 2024 12:26 PM (6ydKt)
==
Funny that the Boomers have the highest divorce rate - driven by the same people getting re-divorced.

Posted by: Black JEM at June 19, 2024 04:33 PM (GZYu7)

224 WEF is us like and Organization of Valians who want to rule the world they would make good role model for evil Organizations like Kaos from Get Smart

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at June 19, 2024 05:24 PM (FLiOE)

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