MORNING RANT: The Electric Vehicle Transition Just Collapsed, and a Day of Reckoning Has Hit for Auto Manufacturers Who Bet Wrong on EVs

The wheels have fallen off the electric vehicle revolution. Consumers are assertively rejecting EVs, and traditional auto manufacturers who bet heavily on “the EV transition” are at a day of reckoning.

The past few weeks appear to be the “gradually, then suddenly” moment when the problems with the EV transition suddenly collapsed into total failure, and auto manufacturers not named Tesla have had to admit that they bet wrong on EVs as they seek to stop the financial bleeding.

Usual Disclaimer: Tesla is a successful manufacturer of a boutique product favored by status-seeking luxury car buyers who have access to other vehicles for hauling, towing, and long-distance driving, and who have access to overnight charging. It is a niche product of limited utility.

As auto manufacturers started looking at their third-quarter financial results, they finally had to acknowledge that their EV commitments are, ahem, unsustainable, and that they cannot continue to sink billions more capital into the failed notion that EVs will replace internal combustion (“ICE” vehicles. Here are some of the stories that have just broken:

“Ford again warns on EV results, withdraws 2023 forecast” [Reuters – 10/27/2023]

Ford said its EV unit posted a higher-than-expected loss in earnings before interest and taxes of $1.3 billion.

Ford sold 20,952 electric vehicles in Q3 2023. The $1.3 billion loss in that quarter averages out to $62,000 per unit. That is catastrophically bad.

The company has forecast a full-year loss of $4.5 billion for the Ford Model e unit.

With Ford referring to its EV division as “Model e,” a commenter here once referred to it as the “Model e-dsel.” That’s funny, but Ford survived its Edsel debacle, it may not survive its EV misadventure.

The automaker said its EV business was experiencing "sharply compressed" prices and profitability, and said customers were not willing to pay a premium for EVs over comparable combustion and hybrid models.

Correct. Customers willing to pay a premium for a less-functional vehicle want a very exclusive hood ornament. Those customers purchase Teslas, not Ford e-dsels.

“Ford will postpone about $12 billion in EV investment as buyers become more cautious” [CNBC – 10/26/2023]

[Ford CFO John Lawler] said that Ford will postpone about $12 billion in planned spending on manufacturing capacity for EVs, including a planned second battery plant at a new campus in Kentucky.

Something is puzzling here, because Ford is saying that it is not yet killing off its massive “Blue Oval City” EV plant that is under construction near Memphis, but previous reports about Ford’s $12 billion EV commitment included the Memphis plant in that commitment. Perhaps Ford will re-purpose Blue Oval City for ICE vehicles if it actually gets built.

Reality has also hit at General Motors. It just announced that the manufacture of electric pickups at one of its plants was being pushed back to late 2025 due to ”evolving EV demand,” which is a polite way of saying consumers will not buy them.

“GM delays EV truck production by a year at Michigan plant” [Reuters – 10/17/2023]

General Motors said on Tuesday it will delay production of the electric pickup trucks at its Orion Township, Michigan, plant as it grapples with "evolving EV demand."

In addition, GM has just announced that several other new EVs that were about to hit the market are also on hold.

“GM Delays Launch Of Chevy Equinox EV, Silverado EV RST and GMC Sierra EV” [GM Authority – 10/24/2023]

The announcement that the launch of the Chevy Equinox EV, Chevy Silverado EV RST, and GMC Sierra EV Denali would be delayed was announced by GM CEO Mary Barra during GM’s Q3 earnings presentation.

Here is what General Motors’ CEO Mary Barra had to say about the delay in launching these new EVs, after which I will translate it from corporate word-salad into English.

“The software organization team is optimizing the software strategy in fine-tuning the plans for our new vehicles to help make sure we execute with the highest possible quality and customer experience while positioning the company to drive significant revenue growth from subscriptions in the future,” Barra said during the presentation.

Translation: “GM dealers don’t want to stock these new electric albatrosses because customers won’t buy them.”

Beyond the problem traditional auto manufacturers have selling EVs to luxury car buyers with the means to afford them is that there is effectively zero market for EVs among less affluent buyers who just need affordable transportation. The auto manufacturers are finally waking up to this reality.

“GM, Honda scrap plans to co-develop ‘affordable’ sub-$30,000 EVs” [CNBC – 10/25/2023]

General Motors and Honda Motor have canceled plans to jointly develop affordable electric vehicles as they face slower-than-expected demand and changing market conditions.

Contrary to the expectations of elite executives with their fancy degrees, demand for EVs is not slower than I expected. In fact, the consumer rejection of EVs was absolutely expected by people like me, and entirely predictable by anyone not blinded by climate ideology or impaired with an elite university degree.

At least Honda has accepted the inevitable:

Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe told Bloomberg Television on Tuesday that the company determined the affordable EV program “would be difficult as a business.”

Over at Toyota, Chairman Akio Toyoda is gloating, as well he should. He battled internal pressures as he promoted hybrids and traditional ICE vehicles, while correctly predicting that consumers would reject EVs.

“Toyota’s Chairman Is Having His ‘I Told You So' Moment About EVs” [Jalopnik – 10/25/2023]

Speaking as head of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, the Wall Street Journal reports that Toyoda said automakers should have continued investment in hybrids instead of going all-in on EVs.
Toyota has taken a “wait and see” approach with EVs, deciding to invest in hybrid models like the new Prius, Corolla Cross Hybrid, even full size hybrids like the Sequoia SUV and Tundra pickup.
Meanwhile Toyota can’t keep up with hybrid demand. The Journal said that in September 2023, Toyota dealers had “a little more than a week’s worth of Prius hybrids in stock, compared with more than two months’ supply of its electric SUV, the bZ4X.”

Even Mercedes dealers are choking on lots full of unwanted luxury EVs.

“Despite Mercedes' zeal for EVs, models are slow to sell” [Automotive News – 10/20/2023]

Mercedes retailers interviewed by Automotive News blame their bloated stockpiles on the product and on the brand's unwillingness to respond to increased competition with sales programs.
A Mercedes store operator said he has a more than six-month supply of EVs compared with about a 50-day supply of gasoline-powered vehicles. "The EVs are coming whether or not you asked for them or earned them," he said.

Over in Europe the bloom is off the rose too. VW has made a serious commitment to electric vehicles, but EVs still make up less than 10% of its product sales, and car buyers are sending a message about what they want going forward:

“Volkswagen says EV orders are down 50% in Europe” [Electrek – 10/26/2023]

Volkswagen CFO and COO Arno Antlitz explained on a media call that EV orders in Europe are down to 150,000. That’s 50% lower than last year’s total of 300,000.

Even rental car companies are weary of EVs:

“Hertz pulls back on EV plans citing Tesla price cuts, high repair costs” [CNBC – 10/26/2023]

An important part of the revenue model for rental car companies is selling the cars when they are pulled out of livery service. In contrast to ICE cars, used EVs do not hold their value well. It’s even worse for those selling used Teslas. That is because Tesla keeps dropping new car selling prices, which further erodes the re-sale value of those who bought when the price was higher.

Hertz is pumping the brakes on plans to electrify more of its rental car fleet after EV repair costs came in higher than the company anticipated, and after Tesla price cuts reduced the resale value of the majority of electric cars in its fleet by about one-third.

Hertz’s Q3 results fell short, causing its stock price to plunge. CEO Stephen Scherr wasn’t afraid to point blame at the problems EVs are causing them.

The rental car company reported lower than expected margins for the period ending September 2023, and the CEO said EV repairs were one challenge. “Our direct operating expenses remained controlled in the quarter as they grew with transaction volume. On a unit basis, we achieved productivity gains across most categories of auto. The exception remained vehicle damage costs, particularly those on our EVs.”

The EV revolution has met its Waterloo. The challenge for poorly managed companies like Ford and GM is can they navigate a successful retreat back into what they are capable of doing profitably, specifically, producing ICE vehicles that consumers want.

Blue states like California have outlawed the sale of non-EVs in just a few years. It will be interesting to see how they respond to the reality that mass market EV production is not going to happen.

*****

There was much discussion about EVs in the latest Cut Jib Newsletter podcast. Jim Lakely of the Heartland Institute joined JJ Sefton and CBD to discuss the climate craziness and the various political battles we’re having to fight against the climate cultists. Here is a link to the podcast. I encourage you to give it a listen.

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:00 AM (Zz0t1)

2 Mayor Pete assures me that it's inevitable!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:00 AM (ELpxa)

3 I'll noodlum.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:00 AM (Zz0t1)

4 Slacking today

Posted by: Skip at October 30, 2023 11:02 AM (fwDg9)

5 The past few weeks appear to be the “gradually, then suddenly” moment when the problems with the EV transition suddenly collapsed into total failure, and auto manufacturers not named Tesla have had to admit that they bet wrong on EVs as they seek to stop the financial bleeding.

I'm waiting for the US government to acknowledge this, and also to admit they were wrong and should stay out of things about which they know less than nothing.

In the meantime, I'm going to start on a PhD.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:03 AM (I/Qkd)

6 If one wanted to collapse the automobile industry....

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at October 30, 2023 11:03 AM (R4t5M)

7 Let's just go full nuclear houses, cars and trebuchets cuz we can.

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (jrKun)

8 Wikipedia: Hogg has dyslexia, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder.[22][23]

-
Also asshole personality disorder.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (FVME7)

9 Correct. Customers willing to pay a premium for a less-functional vehicle want a very exclusive hood ornament. Those customers purchase Teslas, not Ford e-dsels.
++++
Or they want a particular thing that EVs do well - like be quick as hell with balls-to-the-wall acceleration, or be little low-maintenance runabouts that charge at home for the school and grocery run and are willing to pay a premium for it.

But neither of these are primary markets.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (ELpxa)

10 Taking business advice from a Biden?....Seems to work for them.

Posted by: BignJames at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (AwYPR)

11 Despite all our efforts chief, the buyers aren't buying our EVs. - Ford marketing genius

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (4I/2K)

12 I have a Tesla, and for what I use it for (short commute) it's so far been great. Certainly didn't buy it for the status of showing how green I am or any of that preening bs.

Posted by: Plantaganet at October 30, 2023 11:04 AM (4MWrj)

13 I'm waiting for the US government to acknowledge this, and also to admit they were wrong and should stay out of things about which they know less than nothing.

But...but...but...I CAN'T have been wrong. I have a Bitter Women Gender Studies degree from Harvard!

Posted by: 23 year old making industrial policy at October 30, 2023 11:05 AM (I/Qkd)

14 Electric vehicles - an answer to a problem that didn't exist, from a question no one asked.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (Y2tls)

15 The automaker said its EV business was experiencing "sharply compressed" prices...
-------

[adds 'sharply compressed' to glossary of Corporatespeak]

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (XeU6L)

16 The second EV battery plant being built in Kentucky by "Blue Oval" (Ford's EV division) was recently put on hold.

Regardless, Ford's likely to go tits up in another couple years anyway.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (Q4IgG)

17 According to a guy I know, who knows a guy, who knows a guy, Toyota didn't put much into the EV-devolution after their research and testing said - "Nah." Rather, they are pushing a bunch of research $$$ into Ammonia powered vehicles. Seems to have promise.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (IaTa3)

18 I guess their "the customer is always wrong" sales strategy isn't working out.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (FVME7)

19 The ONLY reason these auto makers went hard for EV's is intense pressure from our government.
EPA milage figures that absolutely cannot be met by ICE vehicles but EVs bring up the average to make the fleet acceptable to EPA.

Too bad nobody wants them. And don't get me wrong, there's a place for them as second vehicles for affluent owners, but that's about where we are at already.

US gov to automakers: You fucked up. You trusted us.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (FCbAQ)

20 When governments and business try to force a market, ithat is anti-capitalism. It always fails.

In capitalism, capital chases profits. That works when we don’t interfere.

Posted by: Legion of Boom at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (k8boH)

21 Tesla has historically been supported by major outpouring of grift without which even those wouldn't even be a niche at all. Tesla has historically made up for losses by selling "green credits" to makers of real vehicles. They were also being grifted 7500 per vehicle straight from the govt as well

Posted by: Chuck Hemangioma at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (JZocw)

22 Translation: “GM dealers don’t want to stock these new electric albatrosses because customers won’t buy them.”
++++
In part. It also says something else:
"The plan to nickle-and-dime customers with 'subscriptions' for physical property they own is hitting roadblocks because our customers aren't interested. We'll get there, though, and expect that our rent-extraction schemes will work well in the future once we wear down opposition (likely in coordination with other manufacturers so everyone plays the same game)."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (ELpxa)

23 Also, Fuck Gaia. It has been trying to kill me since the day I was born.

Posted by: Legion of Boom at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (k8boH)

24 I'm going to suggest a possibility that AFAIK few have considered. Is it possible that the leaders of Ford, GM, etc. knew all along that EVs weren't going to replace ICEs, but just went along with the government so as to get sweet subsidy money, and to avoid drawing the ire of the EV fanatics running government?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (I/Qkd)

25 Meanwhile Toyota can’t keep up with hybrid demand. The Journal said that in September 2023, Toyota dealers had “a little more than a week’s worth of Prius hybrids in stock, compared with more than two months’ supply of its electric SUV, the bZ4X.”
++++
Toyota might come out on top by default.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (ELpxa)

26 Mary Barra . . . what a retard. Who talks like that? That's like someone asked AI to create the most empty nothingness corporate mumbo-jumbo, and she just regurgitated what came out.

This woman is CEO of a major American and international company?? I wouldn't trust her to run a hot dog stand.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (iFTx/)

27 https://autos.yahoo.com/
us-government-just-made-buying-220000957.html

Saw this just this morning, cash give away to get one off their hands. Article claimes it's a win win free money and great cost free vehicle

Posted by: Skip at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (fwDg9)

28 Edsel Ford, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

Posted by: Queequeg the Harpooner at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (9X60i)

29 Rather, they are pushing a bunch of research $$$ into Ammonia powered vehicles. Seems to have promise.
---------------
Have you ever cleaned a Parris Island shower with a Toothbrush, Ammonia and Hot Water? Its an old favorite on the island. The DI's love that one.

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (jrKun)

30 Funny how we unwashed plebs called this a LONG time ago but the overpaid overcredentialed titans of industry screw the electric powered pooch.

Posted by: I'll gladly make company-destroying decisions for half their pay! at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (B9RjC)

31 Rascal and Hoveround will replace Ford and GM.

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (4I/2K)

32 The remaining chards of the American auto industry desperately bet on Government support, via EV's, and bet wrong.

Buh-bye.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (oOorw)

33
I think Ford shot itself in both feet, both hands, and possibly in the chest with all their EV lust.

Posted by: Frank Barone at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (+oR7L)

34 “The software organization team is optimizing the software strategy in fine-tuning the plans ..."

These words have never presaged anything good.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (MvF+J)

35 Why is the Toyota Hilux not allowed in the US?

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (jrKun)

36 Hybrids seem to be a very good innovation on the ICE. Increased gas mileage and no need to change fueling infrastructure.

I don't know enough about the "sustainability" issues with hybrids with respect to whether there is any advance in the direction of net-zero, not that I care. I do wonder if little African kids still need to work in the poison cobalt mines for components for the hybrids, which, as someone concerned about pollution and exploitation, I care much more about than net-zero b/s.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (fs1hN)

37 Correct. Customers willing to pay a premium for a less-functional vehicle want a very exclusive hood ornament. Those customers purchase Teslas, not Ford e-dsels.

Should have just stuck with Jaguar.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (Y2tls)

38 29 Rather, they are pushing a bunch of research $$$ into Ammonia powered vehicles. Seems to have promise.

Squeaky-clean energy

Posted by: Use some Windex! at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (B9RjC)

39 People won't buy EVs? Time to outlaw ICE engines!

Posted by: Your Betters in Government at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (vqhPW)

40 "Loud bang, then just stopped."

https://is.gd/v21mob

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (Zz0t1)

41 Biden and/or Congress will bail out any and all transportation system pensions, yet again, until such time as the money for all of the pension system bailouts* runs out.

It's been the game for how long & under what administrations? (Rhetorical Q)

*Also see teachers' unions and new jobs, such as paraprofessional.

Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (GshMh)

42 No worries, I'm sure Joey Shitbrains is planning a yuge bailout of these idiot car companies. After all, it really wasn't their idea to go all-in on EV. The government all but forced them.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:10 AM (iFTx/)

43 Have you ever cleaned a Parris Island shower with a Toothbrush, Ammonia and Hot Water? Its an old favorite on the island. The DI's love that one.
Posted by: Pudinhead

You had hot water while there?

Luxury!!

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:11 AM (IaTa3)

44 Why is the Toyota Hilux not allowed in the US?
Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (jrKun)

Because that's how you end up with a real insurrection.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at October 30, 2023 11:11 AM (FCbAQ)

45 Mary must know a lot about cars and stuff. More than most men is this country. Good for her.

Posted by: DOYLE at October 30, 2023 11:11 AM (Z8Yh2)

46 Tesla might have some staying power, depending on how they're pricing and future engineering goes. I wouldn't write them off entirely, yet.

But Toyota made all the right moves. Their CEO is going to live long in auto history.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 30, 2023 11:12 AM (oOorw)

47 Electric vehicles - an answer to a problem that didn't exist, from a question no one asked.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (Y2tls)

Well said.

Posted by: Archer at October 30, 2023 11:12 AM (gmo/4)

48 Translation: “GM dealers don’t want to stock these new electric albatrosses because customers won’t buy them.

Very few people want to actively burn down their homes.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:12 AM (Y2tls)

49 16 The second EV battery plant being built in Kentucky by "Blue Oval" (Ford's EV division) was recently put on hold.

Regardless, Ford's likely to go tits up in another couple years anyway.
____

That will be a huge benefit to our membership.

Posted by: Union Leadership at October 30, 2023 11:12 AM (fs1hN)

50 I do wonder if little African kids still need to work in the poison cobalt mines for components for the hybrids, which, as someone concerned about pollution and exploitation, I care much more about than net-zero b/s.
Posted by: Chuck Martel at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (fs1hN)

Of course. It's a small price to pay for well-heeled white liberals to show how much they care about their fellow well-heeled white liberal friends' opinions of them.

Posted by: They HATE kids anyway at October 30, 2023 11:12 AM (B9RjC)

51 Why is the Toyota Hilux not allowed in the US?
Posted by: Pudinhead

Factory installed hard points.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (Y2tls)

52 Rascal and Hoveround will replace Ford and GM.

In principle you're 100% right. In detail, Ford and GM replaced more or less successful product lines with Rascals and Hoverounds. Without asking odd men out like customers and the working staff, The Board voted to do this.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (4PZHB)

53 Mary must know a lot about cars and stuff. More than most men is this country. Good for her.

She makes $29M a year. She must know what she's doing, right? RIGHT?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (I/Qkd)

54 Nothing new.

Twenty-five years ago:

The Zero-Emission Vehicle (ZEV) mandate, one of the most daring environmental policies related to transportation, was implemented in September, 1990, by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). It originally required that, starting in 1998, 2% of the in-state new light duty vehicle sales of major automakers had no emissions of criteria pollutants. The required ZEV percentage would be increased to 5% in 2001 and to 10% in 2003.

Yeah, that happened.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (2tUFv)

55 Second look at Segway?

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (4I/2K)

56 Get all warm and fuzzy. Not an ev fire warm but still warm.

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (ytSiK)

57 A professional hockey player died on live television after being slashed across the neck with a skate blade

https://tinyurl.com/a9xycaex

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (FVME7)

58 Why is the Toyota Hilux not allowed in the US?
Posted by: Pudinhead

Imported terrorists would be easier to spot.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:14 AM (Zz0t1)

59 25 Meanwhile Toyota can’t keep up with hybrid demand. The Journal said that in September 2023, Toyota dealers had “a little more than a week’s worth of Prius hybrids in stock, compared with more than two months’ supply of its electric SUV, the bZ4X.”
++++
Toyota might come out on top by default.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (ELpxa)
________

Yea, but their hybrid numbers are a little misleading because for some of their most popular models, they either don't make any non-hybrid version (Sienna) or they technically do but it's all but impossible to get. So if you want a Toyota, and many people do, you'll be forced into a hybrid whether you want it or not.

Toyota is kinda in the same place as Tesla when it comes to hybrids. Their Prius was the first Hollywood-approved virtue-signaling small hybrid on the market, and it remains at the top of that pile.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:14 AM (iFTx/)

60 Second look at Segway?
Posted by: Count de Monet

Didn't demand fall off a cliff for that?

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna39377851

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:14 AM (IaTa3)

61 Volvo is also a huge loser, having abandoned internal combustion entirely (in favor of EVs) and also for having paired up with Google. Who wants all their movements used by Google to sell ads. Screw that.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (oOorw)

62 Very few people want to actively burn down their homes.

I wonder how the insurance companies are responding to people storing electric vehicles in their garages.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (2tUFv)

63 Why doesn't Ford just build trucks only?

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (sX1BW)

64 I'm seeing a lot of Teslas on the road around here, and half tempted to buy a nerf toy so I can shoot them and watch them explode

Posted by: The Unvaxxed and Unmasked Ranger - Blackpilled and Longing for Zooey Deschanel's Bosom at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (VTu1l)

65 My recommendation to the auto industry is to focus on hybrids . Perfect that technology . Skipping that step and going almost all in on marketing EVs goes down as the worst woke business mistake ever IMO.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (MNhXM)

66 "I do wonder if little African kids still need to work in the poison cobalt mines for components for the hybrids"

Cobalt is an important strategic metal vital to the US for many applications. If all EVs disappeared overnite, we'd still need some poor bastards somewhere to mine it. So that particular anti-EV argument doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (MvF+J)

67 Governments pushing electric cars seems to be causing
a re volt!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (RSbhh)

68 Bailouts!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (63Dwl)

69 Toyota is kinda in the same place as Tesla when it comes to hybrids. Their Prius was the first Hollywood-approved virtue-signaling small hybrid on the market, and it remains at the top of that pile.

I remember when Hollywood types started arriving at the Oscars driving a Prius. I'd bet a lot that not one of them did it more than once.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (I/Qkd)

70 26 Mary Barra . . . what a retard. Who talks like that? That's like someone asked AI to create the most empty nothingness corporate mumbo-jumbo, and she just regurgitated what came out.

---------

Hah!

Mary Barea is also a Director at the Walt Disney Co.

Mary Barra was all in on GM's big money partnership with Nikola just as it was revealed to be a huge fraud.

What does that tell you?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (hiMh5)

71 The whole point of developing EVs was to rid the planet of private transportation. They were never intended to replace the utility of ICE vehicles.

Posted by: Jack Squat Bupkis at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (GD2xa)

72 Toyota might come out on top by default.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:07 AM (ELpxa)
________
Not a bit "by default". By intent and strategy.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (oOorw)

73 A professional hockey player died on live television after being slashed across the neck with a skate blade

https://tinyurl.com/a9xycaex
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:13 AM (FVME7)

what the hell was the skater doing kicking his leg up like that?

The dude got his carotid slashed and was dead quickly. I'm amazed he got up and skated to the bench where he died.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (Zz0t1)

74 I wonder how the insurance companies are responding to people storing electric vehicles in their garages.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (2tUFv)

I got an idea....not covered.

Posted by: BignJames at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (AwYPR)

75 57 Looks deliberate, but I'm no hockey expert.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (MvF+J)

76 The wheels have fallen off the electric vehicle revolution.

---------

Next you'll be telling me that auto manufacturers like Tesla don't even provide you with spare tires anymore.

Oh, wait ...

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (6BN4r)

77 I wonder how the insurance companies are responding to people storing electric vehicles in their garages.

Don't.

Posted by: insurance companies at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (I/Qkd)

78 "The second EV battery plant being built in Kentucky by "Blue Oval" (Ford's EV division) was recently put on hold."

Is that the one on Rte 65? If it is the place is humongous.

Posted by: Tuna at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (oaGWv)

79 EVs are the Disco Music of our times.

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (jrKun)

80
Next you'll be telling me that auto manufacturers like Tesla don't even provide you with spare tires anymore.

Oh, wait ...
Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (6BN4r)

And not going to Tesla for tire replacement will void your warranty.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (Zz0t1)

81 "Loud bang, then just stopped."

https://is.gd/v21mob
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023

***
Lucid? More like delusional

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (J2vNu)

82 "The $1.3 billion loss in that quarter averages out to $62,000 per unit. That is catastrophically bad."

How is that even possible? They are losing as much as the as the sales price?

Experts probably responsible

Posted by: Ripley at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (JojsZ)

83 Study: Cost of ‘fueling’ an electric vehicle is equivalent to $17.33 per gallon

The study authors say the $1.21 cost-per-gallon equivalent of charging a car cited by EV advocates excludes the real costs born by taxpayers for subsidies, utility ratepayers for energy investments, and non-electric vehicle owners for mandate-and-environmental-credit-driven higher vehicle costs, which they say total $48,698 per EV. Those costs must be included when comparing fueling costs of EVs and traditional gas-powered vehicles, TPPF maintains.

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (RHGPo)

84 Good.

Posted by: Adlib at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (p7g/T)

85 They tried to call an electric supplier a 'Mustang'.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (pYac8)

86 Loud bang, then just stopped."

https://is.gd/v21mob
Posted by: Sponge

I'll take "What was Hamas' frontal assault" for $200 Alex?

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (Y2tls)

87 Oh Noes! The market is saturated.

Anyways...

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (GTQR/)

88 I remember when Hollywood types started arriving at the Oscars driving a Prius. I'd bet a lot that not one of them did it more than once.

They'd drive their SUVs to a mile from the Oscars, and then switch to a Prius for the last mile and all the cameras.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (2tUFv)

89 Why is the Toyota Hilux not allowed in the US?
Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (jrKun)

Well the Toyota Tacoma has the same frame as the Hilux. Toyota says it designed the "Taco" as an everyday hauler for the North American market? I believe the Hilux can also be purchased with a diesel? I'd love to own one. As a happy Taco owner, I've had numerous people offer me cash for my pickemup, yeah no, not selling. Looking to buy a V8 Tundra in the next two years or so.

Posted by: Ganowicz Commie Exterminators, LTD. at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (7Vi0c)

90 63 Why doesn't Ford just build trucks only?
Posted by: SH (no more socks) at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM (sX1BW)
___________

It pretty much only does. Trucks and SUVs. The Mustang is the only real car they build.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (iFTx/)

91
I wonder how the insurance companies are responding to people storing electric vehicles in their garages.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM

Probably gonna raise rates on everyone to have a cushion for that day. I had to shop around when I saw my latest homeowners bill. The result? It wasn't too bad.

On a monthly basis more then the mortgage on the first house I owned.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (enJYY)

92 LOL at California BTW, where apparently no cars will be sold at all.

Posted by: Jack Squat Bupkis at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (GD2xa)

93 As the civilian market for EVs crashes, state governments keep making up EV laws and cracking down on gas power vehicles.

Posted by: Skip at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (fwDg9)

94 Beard Meets Food . . . PASS. These competitive eating contests and people just creep me out. I see nothing appealing about even thinking about some guy – or worse, gal – slobbering down pounds of food, let alone watching it.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (iFTx/)

95 There is a police investigation into the hockey incident now. May have been deliberate though not intending to kill the guy.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:18 AM (MNhXM)

96 The ev battery plant was one of the many retarded things Beshear is most proud of. Oh and murdering babies.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (pYac8)

97 81 "Loud bang, then just stopped."

Like that weirdo who was stalking Bjork

Posted by: It didn't end well. For him at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (B9RjC)

98 Toyota is kinda in the same place as Tesla when it comes to hybrids. Their Prius was the first Hollywood-approved virtue-signaling small hybrid on the market, and it remains at the top of that pile.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:14 AM (iFTx/)

Don't forget to factor in that Toyota hybrids are actual good vehicles and the Prius was a brilliant idea and a pretty good car. Surprisingly roomy for such a little thing.
With a decades long track record of doing it right, maybe they should be on top

Posted by: OneEyedJack at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (FCbAQ)

99 Cobalt is an important strategic metal vital to the US for many applications. If all EVs disappeared overnite, we'd still need some poor bastards somewhere to mine it. So that particular anti-EV argument doesn't make sense to me.
____

Valid point. Probably ought to bring this up with Biden admin which closed off huge deposits of rare earth minerals (cobalt included, IIRC) in Minnesota to mining. If I'm not mistaken, US mining doesn't involve African children.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (fs1hN)

100 “The software organization team is optimizing the software strategy in fine-tuning the plans for our new vehicles to help make sure we execute with the highest possible quality and customer experience while positioning the company to drive significant revenue growth from subscriptions in the future,” Barra said during the presentation.

I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (uvymP)

101 Governments pushing electric cars seems to be causing
a re volt!
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM

It does seem to be experiencing a lot of resistance.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (vqhPW)

102 Interesting about the rental companies. I'll bet that there is a fair amount of demand in that market for cars that people want to try...which suggests that even casual interest in EVs is collapsing, separate from the higher costs that also drive down demand.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (3Gtis)

103 The Republican Electric Vehicle Tantrum Better technology that helps America fight climate change? No thanks, say conservatives. BY RYAN COOPER OCTOBER 30, 2023

The major automakers and federal government have decided that the future is electric cars. Every manufacturer now plans to phase out traditional gas-powered cars, and the Biden administration has said that by 2035 the federal government will stop buying them.

conservative hatred of EVs is baffling...EVs have long been associated with guilty liberal consciences—something that NPR listeners buy to do their part to protect the environment—and a big part of conservative politics is doing the opposite of what liberals want. That holds double when doing that thing makes liberals upset.

Reverse psychology aside, there is one strategy that will work: banning the sale of carbon-fueled automobiles. Cars wear out, and if there’s nothing else to buy, then even conservatives with the most severe case of oppositional defiant disorder will have no choice.

As usual, if America is going to be brought into a brighter, cleaner, healthier future, Republicans are going to have be dragged along kicking and screaming.

Posted by: Intercepted The American Prospect Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (JCZqz)

104 Volkswagen CFO and COO Arno Antlitz explained on a media call that EV orders in Europe are down to 150,000. That’s 50% lower than last year’s total of 300,000.
++++
I can't fathom how there's a market for them at all there, or in places like California. Electricity price *wholesale* in Germany is 7.8 eurocents (8.3 cents) per kWh. Retail price is much higher, of course, since it has to include delivery, taxes, etc. I see estimates mostly in the 30 eurocent range - at least 31.8 cents per kWh. That is eye-watering cost for electricity.

Diesel in Germany is 1.83 EUR per liter ($1.94). A Tesla Model 3 standard has a 54 kWh battery and a 272 mile range - about 200 Wh per mile, or 1 kWh per five miles, or $0.636 in energy per mile. A BMW 3 series diesel gets about 40 MPG, or 0.025 gallons per mile, or 0.095 liters per mile, or $0.204 in energy per mile.

Fueling an equivalent diesel vehicle has a *third* the cost as compared to an EV in Germany. It's amazing that there's a market at all.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (ELpxa)

105 It would be interesting to run a regression analysis of the relative success of a corporation with the political contributions and college graduated from for the corporation's top executives and directors.

Posted by: Kam Fong as Chin Ho at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (gf7Ez)

106 Honda CEO Toshihiro Mibe told Bloomberg Television on Tuesday that the company determined the affordable EV program “would be difficult as a business.”

Yet Honda still has ads on TV touting their goal to be carbon neutral by 2030. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (N39Ws)

107 'Over at Toyota, Chairman Akio Toyoda is gloating, as well he should.'

I wonder how much pressure Toyoda got to have an EV line.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (bVfY0)

108 Joe Biden was tapped as former President Barack Obama’s running mate “specifically for being bad with money.”

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (RHGPo)

109 An battery company from Canada slated to take over 500000 feet in an IBM site here filed for bankruptcy and when last seen there stock was well below $1. The NY and local politicians promised all kinds of graft and corruption and it never came to be

Posted by: Smell the Glove at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (0dTR/)

110 I wonder how the insurance companies are responding to people storing electric vehicles in their garages.

Don't worry - well simply ban insurance companies from considering the fire risk from EVs in pricing insurance coverage.

Posted by: California And Others! at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (2tUFv)

111 The exception remained vehicle damage costs, particularly those on our EVs.
++++
Does that mean that the EV rentals are being wrecked or vandalized/burgled more?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (ELpxa)

112
It does seem to be experiencing a lot of resistance.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (vqhPW)

No one is as amped up as they were expected to be.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (Zz0t1)

113 I have a cousin who lives near Yellowstone. When we last saw each other she was joking about the huge number of EVs being towed out of the park every day.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (N39Ws)

114 EVs are the Disco Music of our times.
Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023

***
People loved disco music at the time, at least dancing to it and getting close with the opposite sex. And in contrast to EVs, disco tunes can still be enjoyed 35+ years later.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (J2vNu)

115 Memphis seems like a good place to build a simple, smallish basic pickup truck, like everybody's been squealing for for 15 years.

Anybody know what became of that GM complex at Spring Hill TN, where the Saturn was made, stem to stern? Must look like the Twentieth Century Motor Car Company by now.

Honda "made a commitment" to use their big Ohio facility for nothing but all-electric vehicles. Wonder where that stands now. Keep in mind, Honda's "partnership" with GM was a separate venture. They did not merge with GM, even in the EV-only field.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (4PZHB)

116 Ford said its EV unit posted a higher-than-expected loss in earnings before interest and taxes of $1.3 billion.

----------

Unexpectedly!

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (6BN4r)

117 Mary Barra was all in on GM's big money partnership with Nikola just as it was revealed to be a huge fraud.

What does that tell you?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:16 AM (hiMh5)
=================
Mary Barra only has her job because she can deal with government. They saved her ass in the financial crisis, by stealing from bondholders, and she has been a loyal functionary ever since.

She's a bureaucrat; she belongs in the Cincinnati office. That's all. Not an auto manufacturer, or any kind of manufacturer.

There used to be a hilarious video floating around of her n a Cruise taxi, obviously completely unfamiliar with the vehicle (even though she's CEO of the company that develops it).

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (1og5U)

118 Should have just stuck with Jaguar.
Posted by: rickb223
-------

AoSHQ - Where cruelty is practiced as fine art.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (XeU6L)

119
Fueling an equivalent diesel vehicle has a *third* the cost as compared to an EV in Germany. It's amazing that there's a market at all.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (ELpxa)

That's a shitload of math there, bucko.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (Zz0t1)

120 Don't forget to factor in that Toyota hybrids are actual good vehicles and the Prius was a brilliant idea and a pretty good car. Surprisingly roomy for such a little thing.

----------

Prius is the automotive equivalent of the hair shirt.

Don't get behind one at a light.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:21 AM (hiMh5)

121 Someday electric cars will be known as "Teslas". Not in the generic 'q-tip' or 'kleenex' sense with much competition, but more in the 'edsel' sense. A great idea before it's time to put a happy spin on it.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (GTQR/)

122 LOL!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (+vFC3)

123 There are a couple of coworkers that get hard ons just thinking about buying an EV but bitterly complain that there aren't enough subsidies for them to buy one.

They never have an answer for why should I, the tax payer, should subsidize their personal vehicle. Would they pony up the down payment for my new SUV? Of course not but because they want to virtual signal, I need to give them tax dollars.

F. Them

Posted by: Beartooth at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (TDQgG)

124 Over at Toyota, Chairman Akio Toyoda is gloating, as well he should.

The guy who used to be CEO and got forced out because he said that going "all in" on EVs was stupid?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (uvymP)

125 "Loud bang, then just stopped."

-
Snuff channel on PornHub?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (FVME7)

126 I have a cousin who lives near Yellowstone. When we last saw each other she was joking about the huge number of EVs being towed out of the park every day.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM (N39Ws)

Do you have to lift up the seat and put the car in tow mode like you do battery golf carts?

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (Zz0t1)

127 I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

I feel confident that you are a complete idiot.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (I/Qkd)

128 Ford said its EV unit posted a higher-than-expected loss in earnings before interest and taxes of $1.3 billion.
-----

If your corporate plans include 'expected losses', it may be time to reconsider your strategy.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (XeU6L)

129 Iirc, wwd, the joint venture between Honda and gm was 'put on hold' according to a news broadcast I overheard. The broadcast hastened to add that both Honda and gm were still committed to evs...

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (pYac8)

130 Meanwhile Toyota can’t keep up with hybrid demand.

I've been waiting for 11 months now for a hybrid Highlander.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (uvymP)

131 Sigh. I screwed up. Disregard 104 entirely.

It's $0.0636 cost per mile for electricity in Germany, at the low end - quite a bit lower than diesel. Major infrastructure costs (installing a charger) and the EV premium make break-even pretty distant, but the daily operation costs are apparently lower.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (ELpxa)

132 I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

"Socialism has failed where tried because they didn't do it right."

- - - John F. Kerry

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (Zz0t1)

133 And remember,

News Bloomberg Law, February 10, 2022
General Motors Taps Biden Niece as Automaker’s New ESG Chief, by Elizabeth Olson Special Correspondent

> Obama administration alum ran Coca-Cola government relations shop
> GM is bolstering policy team as it looks to electric vehicle future

In part, General Motors Co. has hired Missy Owens, President Joe Biden’s niece and a former Big Law attorney, as its new head of environmental, social and corporate governance.

Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM (GshMh)

134 I saw just this past weekend that the CEO of GM has said they will go with hydrogen, not EVs.

General Motors has a history of developing hydrogen fuel cell cars, starting from the 1966 GM Electrovan. Some of its concept cars include the Hy-wire, which runs on hydrogen and is controlled electronically, the HydroGen, which was certified for regular roads in Japan, and the AUTOnomy and HyWire, which were designed to reinvent the automobile for the 21st century. However, GM does not have a hydrogen-powered consumer vehicle as of 20225. It is working with Honda to develop hydrogen technology and manufacture fuel cells. It may also produce a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle for the military.

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (RHGPo)

135 Its really too bad that Jaguar can't build a car that looks like a Jaguar.

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (jrKun)

136 I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

You'll own nothing, and be happy!

Posted by: Chuck Martel at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (fs1hN)

137 No one is as amped up as they were expected to be.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:20 AM

Watt's up with that?

- The Left

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (vqhPW)

138 127 I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

-----------

Your car as a data collection device. And you pay for it by the month.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (hiMh5)

139 This calls for a little Nelson Muntz. Ha ha!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (FVME7)

140 98 Toyota is kinda in the same place as Tesla when it comes to hybrids. Their Prius was the first Hollywood-approved virtue-signaling small hybrid on the market, and it remains at the top of that pile.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:14 AM (iFTx/)

Don't forget to factor in that Toyota hybrids are actual good vehicles and the Prius was a brilliant idea and a pretty good car. Surprisingly roomy for such a little thing.
With a decades long track record of doing it right, maybe they should be on top
Posted by: OneEyedJack at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (FCbAQ)
___________

I mostly agree except the first-gen Prius was flung-together plasticky dogshit. But it captured the zeitgeist and sold very well. That enabled Toyota to spend more $$ on developing and improving it, as well as expanding the hybrid tech to other models. My mom and sister are Toyota buyers. Mom has a Highlander and my sis a Sienna and a Corolla. Good vehicles.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (iFTx/)

141 Eliminating EVs and their demand for cobalt would reduce the amount of mining for cobalt thus reducing child miners. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (MNhXM)

142 Looking to buy a V8 Tundra in the next two years or so.
Posted by: Ganowicz Commie Exterminators, LTD.

Good luck with that! I played hell getting a new Camry this summer and that vehicle isn't even at the top of outrageous demand. Pity the folks wanting a 4Runner also.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (IaTa3)

143 I not only did math, I did *bad* and wrong math. As an act of contrition, here is a busty boat blonde in a one-piece:
https://is.gd/PgUI9H

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (ELpxa)

144 Any predictions we'll see some CxO staff turnover at the Big 3? Looking at you, Mary Barra.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:25 AM (N39Ws)

145 127 I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee for a feature that we advertise in our vehicles. -- Mary Barra

I feel confident that you are a complete idiot.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:22 AM (I/Qkd)

"The braking feature requires a subscription fee of $399 per month."

Posted by: Your subscription fee is delinquent and your ability to stop has been suspended at October 30, 2023 11:25 AM (B9RjC)

146 FEN off the goldarn top rope, delivering a Muldoon!

Way to go F.S.!

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at October 30, 2023 11:25 AM (4PZHB)

147 I saw just this past weekend that the CEO of GM has said they will go with hydrogen, not EVs.

They're assuming they'll be around when (if) hydrogen technology is a viable choice for cars. I'm not.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (I/Qkd)

148 141 Eliminating EVs and their demand for cobalt would reduce the amount of mining for cobalt thus reducing child miners. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (MNhXM)
__________

You're assuming that they want to eliminate or even reduce child miners. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (iFTx/)

149 101 Governments pushing electric cars seems to be causing
a re volt!
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM

It does seem to be experiencing a lot of resistance.

ohm. my. god. i'm not certain i have the capacitance up with which to put these puns.

Posted by: anachronda at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (sGtp+)

150 Cobalt is an important strategic metal vital to the US for many applications. If all EVs disappeared overnite, we'd still need some poor bastards somewhere to mine it. So that particular anti-EV argument doesn't make sense to me.
____

Valid point. Probably ought to bring this up with Biden admin which closed off huge deposits of rare earth minerals (cobalt included, IIRC) in Minnesota to mining. If I'm not mistaken, US mining doesn't involve African children.
Posted by: Chuck Martel

If it's that friggen important, maybe we shouldn't try putting it in 310 million registered vehicles every 10 years.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (Y2tls)

151 >>Volkswagen CFO and COO Arno Antlitz explained on a media call that EV orders in Europe are down to 150,000. That’s 50% lower than last year’s total of 300,000.

Have they ever seen the wiring in a European Home?

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (eD8KA)

152 Eliminating EVs and their demand for cobalt would reduce the amount of mining for cobalt thus reducing child miners. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (MNhXM)
++++
All children are minors!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (ELpxa)

153 Report: Democrats Admit Biden’s Migration Is Splitting the Party

you . think

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (RHGPo)

154 117
'There used to be a hilarious video floating around of her '

She sounds like a living parody of girl power.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (bVfY0)

155 150 I feel that way about wasting helium on party balloons.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (MvF+J)

156 It is too funny car companies will go down lead by the government hand that dragged them to doom

Posted by: Skip at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (fwDg9)

157 138
Your car as a data collection device. And you pay for it by the month.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (hiMh5)

Check on YT, there are videos where the cell data card can be removed from the radio. Reportedly no impact on vehicle operations, it just can't phone "home". As an added benefit, you'll no longer be tracked by the govt. using the cell signal.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (N39Ws)

158 Cobalt miners > guano miners

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (hiMh5)

159 Even granting that EVs are just as useful as regular cars for most people in most circumstances (which they're not, but whatever), it's still a monumentally bad idea to be on the early-adopter side of the curve for this sort of thing. Your car is in the top 2 most expensive purchases you're going to make (behind your house, if you can afford one in this market). You want to be damn sure that your car manufacturer has thought about all the weird corner cases that can turn your shiny expensive investment into a stack of bricks, and that's really hard for them to do without seeing how people actually drive their cars and seeing what happens to them for a couple of years. Nobody wants to be in the position of realizing that oh, the part of the country that you live in happens to have a climate that will corrode the battery charging port after five years of normal use and that wasn't something the manufacturers thought of because they did their design and testing in southern california, so now that's a $10k expense you didn't realize you'd have to shell out for.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (fKIdX)

160 After the Broncos shocked the football-watching world by beating Kansas City for the first time since 2015, the folks running the music at Empower Field at Hile High had a little fun trolling their division foe by playing one of Swift’s hits, Shake It Off.

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (RHGPo)

161 EV sales are declining but I don't see fuel-burning ones making a comeback. I see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars. And I see no reason to assume this result wasn't intended.

Posted by: RatMan29 at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (3SFo/)

162 "The braking feature requires a subscription fee of $399 per month."

Not to worry. For those who don't want to pay a subscription, they'll offer the barefoot "Flintstone" braking option.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (I/Qkd)

163 151
Have they ever seen the wiring in a European Home?

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (eD8KA)

They don't have enough electricity to heat their home, much less recharge their EV.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (N39Ws)

164 130. I've been waiting for 11 months now for a hybrid Highlander.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM
---
Hang on.

Toyota Highlander SUVs Recalled Because Bumper Cover Can Fall Off - Consumer Reports, consumerreports dot org
2 hours ago

Toyota is recalling over 750,000 Highlander and Highlander Hybrid SUVs from the 2020 through 2023 model years because their lower bumper cover could fall off. The problem could occur after a minor impact to the lower front bumper cover assembly, according to a statement from Toyota.

Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (GshMh)

165 Ford Model A- driver's pal
Ford Model E- driver's imaginary friend

Posted by: Eromero at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (NxC5+)

166 Eliminating EVs and their demand for cobalt would reduce the amount of mining for cobalt thus reducing child miners. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (MNhXM)
__________

You're assuming that they want to eliminate or even reduce child miners. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (iFTx/)

I agree. I was just responding to the comment that said he didn’t understand the child miner argument in opposition to EVs.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (MNhXM)

167 141 Eliminating EVs and their demand for cobalt would reduce the amount of mining for cobalt thus reducing child miners. Seems pretty obvious to me.

i'm sure we can find some other use for those child miners.

Posted by: zombie jeffery epstein at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (sGtp+)

168 Check on YT, there are videos where the cell data card can be removed from the radio. Reportedly no impact on vehicle operations, it just can't phone "home". As an added benefit, you'll no longer be tracked by the govt. using the cell signal.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:27 AM (N39Ws)
++++
Or just disconnect the antenna. Without an external antenna, stuff buried in the works of a car is usually pretty radio-isolated.

But you can't do that if you have a "subscription" for your car hardware. No phone-home, no function.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (ELpxa)

169 149 101 Governments pushing electric cars seems to be causing
a re volt!
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 30, 2023 11:15 AM

It does seem to be experiencing a lot of resistance.

ohm. my. god. i'm not certain i have the capacitance up with which to put these puns.
Posted by: anachronda at October 30, 2023 11:26 AM (sGtp+)

Watts this? Fenelon getting in on the puns? AWESOME!

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (N39Ws)

170 To Tesla owners: have you experienced this? (From the CNBC article on Tesla):

"The reality of electric vehicles is that they can be 1,000 pounds heavier or more than gas vehicles, and they move faster, with higher torque. Since they're extremely zippy and heavier, it's just physics -- the ability to overcome inertia so quickly is going to effect their suspension systems, the brakes and steering columns. It's counter-intuitive, but even with fewer moving parts they are susceptible to requiring more maintenance. They especially require tire-swapping, because the tires wear out more quickly from that high torque and weight."

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (G9sfT)

171 >>"The braking feature requires a subscription fee of $399 per month."

Remember when a payphone would ring, after you used it, and the operator would tell you that you owed them money for the call you just ended?

Good memories.

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (eD8KA)

172 164 130. I've been waiting for 11 months now for a hybrid Highlander.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:23 AM

There can be only one!

Posted by: Connor McLeod at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (B9RjC)

173 "I see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars"

I'll never be able to afford a new car.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (MvF+J)

174 127
'I feel confident that GM will succeed where BMW failed in convincing our customers to pay a monthly subscription fee...'

I feel confident she will ask her democrat friends to force this on the public like the Covid shot.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (bVfY0)

175 Report: Democrats Admit Biden’s Migration Is Splitting the Party

Biden's Migration?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (I/Qkd)

176 ohm. my. god. i'm not certain i have the capacitance up with which to put these puns.
Posted by: anachronda
------

You seem to be displaying reluctance.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (XeU6L)

177 "conservative hatred of EVs is baffling.."

Maybe it is because we have noticed that not only is the atmosphere not boiling, there is no climate chaos or even any noticeable difference from 50 years ago. Everything appears to be about the same, except for the MSM freak-out over every weather related event, big and small. For example past month has been beautiful fall weather around here with not even a hint of apocalypse.

That could be it.

Posted by: Ripley at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (JojsZ)

178 I can't fathom how there's a market for them at all there, or in places like California. Electricity price *wholesale* in Germany is 7.8 eurocents (8.3 cents) per kWh. Retail price is much higher, of course, since it has to include delivery, taxes, etc. I see estimates mostly in the 30 eurocent range - at least 31.8 cents per kWh. That is eye-watering cost for electricity.

Diesel in Germany is 1.83 EUR per liter ($1.94). A Tesla Model 3 standard has a 54 kWh battery and a 272 mile range - about 200 Wh per mile, or 1 kWh per five miles, or $0.636 in energy per mile. A BMW 3 series diesel gets about 40 MPG, or 0.025 gallons per mile, or 0.095 liters per mile, or $0.204 in energy per mile.

Fueling an equivalent diesel vehicle has a *third* the cost as compared to an EV in Germany. It's amazing that there's a market at all.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:19 AM (ELpxa)

Ow. Ow ow ow owow. All that math makes my head hurt.
Hey, it's a good thing someone does it so the numbers can be compared side by side. Otherwise it's comparing apples to kiwis and the kiwi fans will never accept apples being the equal to their precious.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (FCbAQ)

179 On the Blue Ridge eatery’s menus, it says that customers will be charged an extra 20 percent for parties over six people, parties that ask for separate checks, and parties that order from the birthday menu. There is also a $3 surcharge listed for sharing food and a disclaimer that the menu’s prices are for cash payments only and that card payments will get an extra 3.5 percent charge.
With all of those extra requirements, one, in particular, stood out to some people: “Adult surcharge: For adults unable to parent $$$.”

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (RHGPo)

180 Good luck with that! I played hell getting a new Camry this summer and that vehicle isn't even at the top of outrageous demand. Pity the folks wanting a 4Runner also.
Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:24 AM (IaTa3)

I recon used car lots as a hobby. In my neck of the woods (Peoples Socialists Democratic Republics of Northern VA), I've seen Tundras, 4Runners, and Tacos for sale. The 4Runners sell the fastest, followed by the Tacos. The Tundras do move, more so than the domestic full-size pick ups. It's all about patience in the used car market. Seen a lot of Jeep Gladiators for sale, recently.

Posted by: Ganowicz Commie Exterminators, LTD. at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (7Vi0c)

181 Were there US government subsidies to the major vehicle manufacturers for EV production and development? If so how many US taxpayer dollars are at stake? Are there bailout penalties for manufacturers if they don't meet minimum EV manufacturing commitments by a certain date(s)? If so, how much? Elections are coming.

Posted by: mrp at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (rj6Yv)

182 161 EV sales are declining but I don't see fuel-burning ones making a comeback. I see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars. And I see no reason to assume this result wasn't intended.

what we really need is some sort of cheap people's car.

Posted by: you know who at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (sGtp+)

183 >>They don't have enough electricity to heat their home, much less recharge their EV.

Exposed wiring stapled to walls...push button switches...sure, plug in your EV.

Did you bring an adaptor?

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (eD8KA)

184 160 After the Broncos shocked the football-watching world by beating Kansas City for the first time since 2015, the folks running the music at Empower Field at Hile High had a little fun trolling their division foe by playing one of Swift’s hits, Shake It Off.
-----------------
I enjoyed watching the Jacksonville Jags celebrating their victory over the Steelers by waving Terrible Towels.

Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (jrKun)

185 Thanks, Buck. A very good Morning Rant.

Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (GshMh)

186 “The software organization team is optimizing the software strategy in fine-tuning the plans for our new vehicles to help make sure we execute with the highest possible quality and customer experience while positioning the company to drive significant revenue growth from subscriptions in the future,” Barra said during the presentation.

----------

That sounds like it was written by an AI chat bot mocking ChatGPT.

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (6BN4r)

187 "The reality of electric vehicles is that they can be 1,000 pounds heavier or more than gas vehicles, and they move faster, with higher torque. Since they're extremely zippy and heavier, it's just physics -- the ability to overcome inertia so quickly is going to effect their suspension systems, the brakes and steering columns. It's counter-intuitive, but even with fewer moving parts they are susceptible to requiring more maintenance. They especially require tire-swapping, because the tires wear out more quickly from that high torque and weight."
Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 30, 2023 11:29 AM (G9sfT)
++++
Tires and brakes are well-understood for EVs (regen braking is helpful for saving brake wear). The other stuff is news to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if suspension components need to be *super* beefy.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (ELpxa)

188 see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars"

30 year mortgages…I mean car loans.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (MNhXM)

189 181 Were there US government subsidies to the major vehicle manufacturers for EV production and development? If so how many US taxpayer dollars are at stake?

none. we funded them with ious to the social security fund. we don't have to pay those back.

Posted by: your betters at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (sGtp+)

190 Am I the only one who thinks a nicely equipped 4-Runner is a +2 for Hotness for the chick driving it?

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (eD8KA)

191 It seems like rental cars would be the worst possible use for an EV. People who rent cars are disproportionally heading off into the unknown. "EVs" + "unknown" = a bad bad time, with margins between ok and not ok being measured in a few minutes or a few miles

Posted by: arminius at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (Dpgtk)

192 The EV revolution has been pushed back in the same manner as Disney's "live action" "Snow White and the Seven 'What the Hell Is That'(s)?," has been.

Posted by: Marooned at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (kt8QE)

193 I had an electric car that I leased. When I went to purchase it, the dealer told me to lease it because it was like a cell phone and would be obsolete after 3 years. I still got the tax benefit so my lease payments were lower. It was a blast to drive and I really had fun but it had its drawbacks. When I turned it in, I had no interest in getting another. I never took it on a long trip (lacked range). I live where I could recharge every night. IMHO, EVs are still cult cars and not practical for the average shmoe.

Posted by: actually inside the beltway at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (roPuI)

194 They especially require tire-swapping, because the tires wear out more quickly from that high torque and weight."
Posted by: Darrell Harris
-----
Well, at least you don't have to be concerned about the spare. You're welcome.

Posted by: Tesla at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (XeU6L)

195 160 After the Broncos shocked the football-watching world by beating Kansas City for the first time since 2015, the folks running the music at Empower Field at Hile High had a little fun trolling their division foe by playing one of Swift’s hits, Shake It Off.
Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:28 AM (RHGPo)
_____________

LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)

196 "I OHM THE LAW!!!"

- - - Judge Watt

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:33 AM (Zz0t1)

197 Ripley Johnson is right!

Posted by: DOYLE at October 30, 2023 11:33 AM (Z8Yh2)

198 175 Biden's Migration?

Kay: You should've been here for the Zeronian migration in 1968.

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:33 AM (RHGPo)

199 They especially require tire-swapping, because the tires wear out more quickly from that high torque and weight."
Posted by: Darrell Harris

I'm sure those extra tires aren't a strain on the environment at all.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:33 AM (fKIdX)

200 On the Blue Ridge eatery’s menus, it says that customers will be charged an extra 20 percent for parties over six people, parties that ask for separate checks, and parties that order from the birthday menu. There is also a $3 surcharge listed for sharing food and a disclaimer that the menu’s prices are for cash payments only and that card payments will get an extra 3.5 percent charge.

Why on earth would anyone eat in such a place? Are they masochists with money?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (I/Qkd)

201 Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:30 AM (RHGPo)

Do people still eat there? If so, why?

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (MNhXM)

202 194 They especially require tire-swapping, because the tires wear out more quickly from that high torque and weight."
Posted by: Darrell Harris
-----
Well, at least you don't have to be concerned about the spare. You're welcome.
Posted by: Tesla at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (XeU6L)
____________

I can't remember the last car I had with a spare. Only the sedans and bigger vehicles have them now.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (iFTx/)

203 182 161 EV sales are declining but I don't see fuel-burning ones making a comeback. I see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars. And I see no reason to assume this result wasn't intended.

what we really need is some sort of cheap people's car.
Posted by: you know who at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (sGtp+)

Didn't it take a world war for one of those "people's car" companies to enter the market?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (N39Ws)

204 EV sales are declining but I don't see fuel-burning ones making a comeback. I see a large majority of the population in 2030 being unable to afford cars. And I see no reason to assume this result wasn't intended.

Of course it's intended. It's all of a piece with 15-minute cities, eating zee bugz, living in zee pod, owning nothing and being happy about it.

Posted by: A freely mobile decentralized populace is harder to monitor and control at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (B9RjC)

205 If the goal is fuel economy, bring back the Ford Focus and other sedans that were discontinued when the EV push began. 40+ mpg on the highway is good enough.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (fxCK2)

206 I'm fairly certain the feds will pony up a couple billion for the "big 3" when the EV market finally collapses.

Like the MIC, the auto manufactures are beholden to the State. And provide a sizable number of ballots at election time.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (Q4IgG)

207 Maybe it is because we have noticed that not only is the atmosphere not boiling, there is no climate chaos or even any noticeable difference from 50 years ago.

That why the environmental movement increasingly relies on teenagers, who aren't aware that there have been continuous predictions of environmental doom for the last half century.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (2tUFv)

208 Hey! Good thread. It reminds me, I need to pick up some AAs.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (uSHSS)

209 202
I can't remember the last car I had with a spare. Only the sedans and bigger vehicles have them now.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (iFTx/)

GM trucks all look nice with 18" or 20" wheels. The spare? 17"

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (N39Ws)

210 Funny how we unwashed plebs called this a LONG time ago but the overpaid overcredentialed titans of industry screw the electric powered pooch.
Posted by: I'll gladly make company-destroying decisions for half their pay! at October 30, 2023 11:08 AM (B9RjC)

People in the upper echelons of, well, everything in the west CANNOT deviate from orthodoxy and remain in the upper echelons. As a result, the decision makers will neither hear a contradictory opinion nor be able to form one themselves.

The funny thing is that THEY did this deliberately to try and control us. The sad thing is that WE will be screwed as a result. The other funny thing is that they will be also.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (uvymP)

211 On the Blue Ridge eatery’s menus, it says that customers will be charged an extra 20 percent for parties over six people, parties that ask for separate checks, and parties that order from the birthday menu. There is also a $3 surcharge listed for sharing food and a disclaimer that the menu’s prices are for cash payments only and that card payments will get an extra 3.5 percent charge.

Ah, the "Master of the House" technique. How much for looking in the mirror twice?

Posted by: spindrift at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (wwfd9)

212 what we really need is some sort of cheap people's car.
Posted by: you know who at October 30, 2023 11:31 AM (sGtp+)

Ein Voltswagen!

Posted by: An EV for the volks! at October 30, 2023 11:36 AM (B9RjC)

213 General Motors and Honda Motor have canceled plans to jointly develop affordable electric vehicles as they face slower-than-expected demand and changing market conditions.

-------------

Unexpectedly!

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:36 AM (6BN4r)

214 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)

Yeah I dislike Mr Pfizer more that I do Swift. At least she’ll get a couple of songs out of the relationship when they split.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:36 AM (MNhXM)

215 I can't remember the last car I had with a spare. Only the sedans and bigger vehicles have them now.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (iFTx/)

I have the 'space' for a spare in the mustang- but instead of a tire there's an air pump. I am thinking of not putting run flats back on it when I have to get new tires. They are very hard, but do not seem as grippy as they should be.*

*used to a miata that weighed 1000 lbs less

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:36 AM (pYac8)

216 "what we really need is some sort of cheap people's car."

Geo Metro xFi cost me $7K new. Ran forever. Fun to drive! OTOH, tincan deathtrap with no airbags.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (MvF+J)

217 180 I recon used car lots as a hobby. In my neck of the woods (Peoples Socialists Democratic Republics of Northern VA), I've seen Tundras, 4Runners, and Tacos for sale

especially on tuesdays.

Posted by: anachronda at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (sGtp+)

218 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.

It's either them receiving wall-to-wall media coverage or us!

Choose wisely!

Posted by: Harry and Meghan! at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (2tUFv)

219 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)
++++
What does "FB" mean in this context? "Footballer?" "Facebook?" Something else?

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (ELpxa)

220 Geo Metro xFi cost me $7K new. Ran forever. Fun to drive! OTOH, tincan deathtrap with no airbags.

Did you live?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (I/Qkd)

221 If the goal is fuel economy, bring back the Ford Focus and other sedans that were discontinued when the EV push began. 40+ mpg on the highway is good enough.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (fxCK2)

The goal is to push hoi polloi into "15 minute" cities to work for government-mandated wages. Oh, and to put bugs on the menu.

Posted by: mrp at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (rj6Yv)

222 Good. I could have told those idiots a few years ago that this was gonna happen, but then they would have had to pay me and eat a BOD's too while I watched.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 30, 2023 11:38 AM (R/m4+)

223 If the goal is fuel economy, bring back the Ford Focus and other sedans that were discontinued when the EV push began. 40+ mpg on the highway is good enough.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (fxCK2)
++++
The perverse incentives of CAFE are manifold.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:38 AM (ELpxa)

224 Why is (insert any awesome product not allowed in the US) not allowed in the US?
Posted by: Pudinhead at October 30, 2023 11:09 AM (jrKun)

Government regulation. In this case, I believe, it lacks the 30 tons of mandated safety equipment which causes most vehicles in the US to have worse gas mileage, and a higher sticker, than might otherwise be the case.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:38 AM (uvymP)

225 GM trucks all look nice with 18" or 20" wheels. The spare? 17"
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed

That's on purpose. It reminds you to get your friggen tire fixed and stop driving on an emergency donut for a year.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:38 AM (Y2tls)

226 208 Hey! Good thread. It reminds me, I need to pick up some AAs.
Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:35 AM (uSHSS)

Something classic like a quad .50 or an 88? Or modern like a MANPAD?

Posted by: I'm gonna catch flack for this at October 30, 2023 11:39 AM (B9RjC)

227 Bofors.

Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:39 AM (pYac8)

228 What does "FB" mean in this context? "Footballer?" "Facebook?" Something else?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (ELpxa)

If he's dating Taylor Swift, probably "fuckboy"

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:39 AM (fKIdX)

229
Anybody know what became of that GM complex at Spring Hill TN, where the Saturn was made, stem to stern?

Workers at the Spring Hill General Motors plant walked out of the facility shortly after 5 p.m. Saturday to join the United Auto Workers "Stand Up Strike" for better wages, retirement benefits and work/ life balance initiatives among other requests.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 30, 2023 11:39 AM (63Dwl)

230 219 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)
++++
What does "FB" mean in this context? "Footballer?" "Facebook?" Something else?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM (ELpxa)
_____________

Football . . . she's supposedly dating Travis Kelce of the Chiefs. I say "supposedly" because I think he gargles cock and 90% of these celebrity relationships are fake as fuck.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:40 AM (iFTx/)

231 227 Bofors.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at October 30, 2023 11:39 AM (pYac

And aftors.

Posted by: The results are picture perfect at October 30, 2023 11:40 AM (B9RjC)

232 I made a semi large to go order at a Mexican restaurant in person. After they added up the bill they said there was a 5% surcharge for to go orders. I canceled the order and haven’t been back since.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:40 AM (MNhXM)

233 The Delaware team knew the FD-1023 was not Russian disinformation, was not from Giuliani, came from a highly reliable CHS, and merited further investigation. The Delaware U.S. attorney’s office received a detailed briefing that established the FD-1023 implicating Hunter and Joe Biden in a Ukrainian bribery scandal was not Russian disinformation and was not sourced to Rudy Giuliani, according to a transcribed interview of former Pittsburgh U.S. Attorney Scott Brady. Yet the Delaware U.S. attorney’s office seemingly ignored the work undertaken by the Pittsburgh office and acted with willful blindness to the evidence implicating the now-president and his son.

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:41 AM (RHGPo)

234
Gas is $2.71 here in Brazoria County, TX.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:41 AM (MoZTd)

235 220 Never wrecked it. I miss that 5-speed stick. Awesome fuel efficiency.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:41 AM (MvF+J)

236 218 It's either them receiving wall-to-wall media coverage or us!
Choose wisely!
Posted by: Harry and Meghan! at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM

Hey! We're right here!

Posted by: Will and Jada Smith at October 30, 2023 11:42 AM (lqvOK)

237 Workers at the Spring Hill General Motors plant walked out of the facility shortly after 5 p.m. Saturday to join the United Auto Workers "Stand Up Strike" for better wages, retirement benefits and work/ life balance initiatives among other requests.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr.

You want work/life balance? Start your own company. Work for yourself. Be your own boss. Work when you want to.

Otherwise, sell your time for when someone else's company needs you.

ps. It's always been that way.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:42 AM (Y2tls)

238 Fox Business: Oil - Published October 30, 2023 11:12am EDT

Israel-Hamas war: Oil prices could see 'large increases' if conflict spreads, World Bank warns

World Bank says Middle East conflict threatens food prices as well

Posted by: L - Can't make 'em love you more or hate you less at October 30, 2023 11:42 AM (GshMh)

239 Hertz is pumping the brakes on plans to electrify more of its rental car fleet after EV repair costs came in higher than the company anticipated, and after Tesla price cuts reduced the resale value of the majority of electric cars in its fleet by about one-third.

----------

Unanticipatedly!

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (94u8B)

240 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)

Possibly unpopular opinion: If you're a woman over the age of 25 that's inordinately invested in Taylor Swift, that's just as much a red flag as if a guy listens to Andrew Tate.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (fKIdX)

241 Hey! Good thread. It reminds me, I need to pick up some AAs.
Posted by: Diogenes
-------

Heh. If you've never seen the Julia Dreyfus spoof ad for the Mercedes 'AA' class EV, it is damned funny.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (XeU6L)

242 My attitude toward big business has changed quite a lot since they all went woke and started funding organizations that want me dead.

I hope Ford and GM go fucking broke.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis, Domestic Terrorist at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (sWM8x)

243 Ein Voltswagen!
Posted by: An EV for the volks!

You know who else liked Volkswagens?

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (IaTa3)

244 Sheesh. Whoever writes Fox's Online headlines is either a liar or just fu*king stupid. Probably both.
"US Announces Deadliest Nuke More Powerful Than Bombs Dropped On Japan"

Well no shit Sherlock!

So we've upgraded some of the weapons. Big deal. We do that all the time. And the arsenal has many far bigger that this one they are "reporting" on.
Fu*king idiots.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:44 AM (uSHSS)

245 Alexander "YOU KNOW" Soros

poor Alexander Soros can barely complete a sentence without "YOU KNOW" uncontrollably popping up in his mouth

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:44 AM (RHGPo)

246 Possibly unpopular opinion: If you're a woman over the age of 25 that's inordinately invested in Taylor Swift, that's just as much a red flag as if a guy listens to ~~Andrew Tate~~ Taylor Swift.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (fKIdX)

Fixed. (Sorta. Kinda.)

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 30, 2023 11:45 AM (GZ+sX)

247 LOL Hertz pushed their EVs so much with Tom Brady in those ads, I hope they take a bath on it.

Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:45 AM (FQmDC)

248 >I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent.

would you tell him so in person?

Posted by: shield at October 30, 2023 11:45 AM (uwJDI)

249 I'm a little surprised they're backing off this soon. I was expecting the boondoggle to get much larger first.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at October 30, 2023 11:45 AM (eYoxG)

250 244
'"US Announces Deadliest Nuke More Powerful Than Bombs Dropped On Japan"

1951 called. they want their headline back.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (bVfY0)

251 240 LOLOL. I'm so fucking sick of Taylor Swift and her FB "boyfriend" is an annoying America-hating leftwing twat who would be cleaning toilets with his tongue if he didn't have supreme athletic talent. To hell with them both.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (iFTx/)

Possibly unpopular opinion: If you're a woman over the age of 25 that's inordinately invested in Taylor Swift, that's just as much a red flag as if a guy listens to Andrew Tate.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM (fKIdX
___________

There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.

Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

252 Buck's completely missing the forest for the trees: there wasn't ever intended to be an EV transition. Just more taking cars away from the peasants, like Obama pioneered with Cash for Clunkers. You will ride the bus eating your bug jerky and be happy.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (2ocoG)

253 EVs...

still more popular than Mike Pence.

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (eD8KA)

254 US Announces Deadliest Nuke More Powerful Than Bombs Dropped On Japan"

1951 called. they want their headline back.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (bVfY0)

Headline makes it seem like this is a new more powerful nuke when it’s the same of what it’s replacing.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (MNhXM)

255 US conducts nuclear test in Nevada hours after Russian move to revoke global test ban
The test came hours after Russian lawmakers said they plan to revoke the ratification of a global nuclear test ban treaty

.. this story went by quietly

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (RHGPo)

256 Great rant! F and GM thought the state was going to shackle consumers to EVs. "Finally," Farley thought, "Ford is going to become a utility company with captive consumers paying state-approved prices with guaranteed profit margins. The capitalist dream come true!"

Let's not start sucking each others d***s just -- the state isn't going to easily give up on those green dollar kickbacks.

Posted by: Oglebay at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (ogTiX)

257
There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

I mean.. to be charitable, it's possible that some percentage of them are there with their kids.

I'm not saying you have to despise her music, but if you're a "Swiftie" or whatever, you've got a few screws loose.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (fKIdX)

258 "The wheels have fallen off the electric vehicle revolution. "

As those persons with any common sense knew long ago. One response: Yea! Finally!

Posted by: Question authority bumper sticker at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (Rbu5d)

259 253 EVs...

still more popular than Mike Pence.
Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (eD8KA)

Have the "Mike Pence for President" coffee mugs hit the local garage sales yet?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (N39Ws)

260 251 Women are inexplicable.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (MvF+J)

261 I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (ZV+pB)

262 249 I'm a little surprised they're backing off this soon. I was expecting the boondoggle to get much larger first.
Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at October 30, 2023 11:45 AM (eYoxG)

I would not count chickens yet. This might be a signal from the company to get more government funding.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (48xVe)

263 '"US Announces Deadliest Nuke More Powerful Than Bombs Dropped On Japan"

Which reminds me, the lovely R. asked me yesterday "If Oak Ridge gets nuked, will the fallout blow this way?"

Interesting in that this is from a woman that gives no shits about current events, doesn't watch the news in any form, and avoids political talk of all types.

As I said, interesting.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (IaTa3)

264 US Announces Deadliest Nuke More Powerful Than Bombs Dropped On Japan"

1951 called. they want their headline back.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (bVfY0)

Headline makes it seem like this is a new more powerful nuke when it’s the same of what it’s replacing.
Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (MNhXM)
***

Click-bait headline.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (uSHSS)

265 You know who else liked Volkswagens?
Posted by: Tonypete at October 30, 2023 11:43 AM

Hippies. Filthy, patchouli-soaked hippies.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (vqhPW)

266 Instead of Tay Tay and What's His Name, I was kinda hoping some NFLer would date Lizzo.

That's what the people need to see.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (R/m4+)

267 >>I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice.

Her legs make a good argument for your disposition.

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (eD8KA)

268 Excellent piece, Buck. Folks should remember the American Taxpayer subsidized Musk to the tune of about $6B to get Tesla to 'market'.

As a volunteer firefighter we just locally had to pour thousands of gallons of water to cool down - not extinguish - and EV fire recently. I will never own one. Period.

Posted by: Danimal28 at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (klw0w)

269 Blue states like California have outlawed the sale of non-EVs in just a few years. It will be interesting to see how they respond to the reality that mass market EV production is not going to happen.

---------

"California officially changes name to Venezuela Morte as millions of "climate change refugees" flood into bordering states and across the Mexican border."

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (FVR5P)

270 Buck's completely missing the forest for the trees: there wasn't ever intended to be an EV transition. Just more taking cars away from the peasants, like Obama pioneered with Cash for Clunkers. You will ride the bus eating your bug jerky and be happy.
Posted by: Ian S

Bingo. See my #6.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (68ETX)

271 255 That was an HE test with no nuclear yield. We haven't tested a weapon at yield in about 35 years.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (MvF+J)

272 I love in the ads you see a woman( always women in car ads today unless it is a black guy) unplug the car and drive off. I want ads where she is at the side of the road waiting for the tow truck because the battery is dead....

Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (FQmDC)

273 This is all intended. Some states they can simply jack up the price of gas via taxes, ban new ICE vehicle registrations (they've already passed this law in CA and WA, with an effective date a few years out... this will also start nixing investment in gas stations). For red states, they're squeezing with CAFE standards and - this, sabotaging traditional auto makers.

The goal here isn't just putting the auto makers into financial distress; they want plants closed, tooling sold off as scrap and skilled workers leaving to do whatever else they're going to do instead. It's an attempt to murder the industry in it's currently scaled incarnation. The progs don't give a shit about the jobs, or the capacity; the military vehicle production lines will stay open and the elites can be shuttled around in things produced on a much smaller scale.

Posted by: somedood at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (8umef)

274 There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

American women are regressing and becoming increasingly infantile.

Posted by: And it's going to get way worse before it gets better, if at all at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (B9RjC)

275 There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

I can understand 30 + fan base since Swift is 33 years old herself.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (MNhXM)

276 271 Yeah apparently some isotopes in it to test detection capability

Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (FQmDC)

277 There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

***

REPEAL THE 19TH

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (ZV+pB)

278 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (MvF+J)

279 They'd drive their SUVs to a mile from the Oscars, and then switch to a Prius for the last mile and all the cameras.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 30, 2023 11:17 AM (2tUFv)

Not unlike that German? environment minister who took a private jet, then a fleet of SUVs to an environmental conference but stopped a mile away to switch to bikes for the grand entrance.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (uvymP)

280 When they drop the price to $15k, I will take one of the trucks off their hands. My truck use is local ... and I could always put a gas generator in the bed for longer trips. heh.

Posted by: illiniwek at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (Cus5s)

281
I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

___________

Taylor Swift: whiny voiced woman complaining about her ex-boyfriends.

40+ women: whiny voice women complaining about their ex-gusbands.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (MoZTd)

282 "272 I love in the ads you see a woman( always women in car ads today unless it is a black guy) unplug the car and drive off. I want ads where she is at the side of the road waiting for the tow truck because the battery is dead....
Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (FQmDC)"

Or forced to sit at a charger in the fucking ghetto at 1 AM for an hour, more likely.

Posted by: somedood at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (8umef)

283 Hedge Funds Load Up On Uranium Stocks, Betting On "Dramatic Upside"

"50%, 100%, possibly more"

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (RHGPo)

284 We don't need no flamey, sparky cars!

Thing is, they burn for DAYS, so a good heat source when natural gas is outlawed and no one can afford electricity.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 30, 2023 11:51 AM (tEB0M)

285 278 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (MvF+J)

"Too little...Too late."

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:51 AM (N39Ws)

286 Folks should remember the American Taxpayer subsidized Musk to the tune of about $6B to get Tesla to 'market'.

Yeah, but that was a good investment given the extent to which they're freaking out about him now.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 11:51 AM (2ocoG)

287 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom

Arby Looking Meats

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:51 AM (Y2tls)

288 283 Hedge Funds Load Up On Uranium Stocks, Betting On "Dramatic Upside"

"50%, 100%, possibly more"
Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (RHGPo)

Hillary Clinton made a fortune selling off US Uranium, IIRC.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (N39Ws)

289 There are red flags flying proudly across the country. Probably half or more of her fans are 40+ women. Look at any concert footage. Half the audience is middle-aged women or pushing middle age. I don't get it.
Posted by: Elric Blade at October 30, 2023 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

I guess you don't have a teenage daughter? I thought my daughter was done with TS, nope. She purchased her latest album, as did all of her friends. Don't get TS phenomenon? Just waiting for the new breakup songs.

Posted by: Ganowicz Commie Exterminators, LTD. at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (7Vi0c)

290 I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice.

Her legs make a good argument for your disposition.
Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:48 AM (eD8KA)

She must have taken after her Dad. Her mom is short and dumpy.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (MNhXM)

291 285 "Climbing Truck Monkey Bars."

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (MvF+J)

292 There's a lot of ruin in a nation, as Smith said.

But there's also a lot of ruin in following government fads, as Ford is finding out.

And that's why we must bail them out with money borrowed from your great-grandchildren's children, as Congress will say.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (QDIvD)

293 40+ women: whiny voice women complaining about their ex-gusbands.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (MoZTd)

Like, oh my GOD I only get $4500 a month from him! Like how am I supposed to LIVE?!
*drinks more Franzia*
*checks Tinder date with Paolo*

Posted by: American ex-wives at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (B9RjC)

294 ++++
Or they want a particular thing that EVs do well - like be quick as hell with balls-to-the-wall acceleration, or be little low-maintenance runabouts that charge at home for the school and grocery run and are willing to pay a premium for it.

But neither of these are primary markets.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
---------

A Tesla went off a 300 ft cliff and all four inside survived with minor injuries (an over night stay at hospital for observation).
IF I lived and worked in the city, especially if workplace had charging station, it would be high on my list of considerations.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (42fr6)

295 Or forced to sit at a charger in the fucking ghetto at 1 AM for an hour, more likely.
Posted by: somedood at October 30, 2023 11:50 AM (8umef)
++++
Or find a charger that isn't in reduced-output mode and so can charge quickly, or hunting for an adapter if you want to use a functional Tesla Supercharger (next year, when it opens) instead of a non-functional "Electrify America" charger. Or needing different apps on your phone to enable delivery, etc.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (ELpxa)

296 The charging waiting would torture me to no end. I seen people waiting far from home wasting a Saturday just to charge their vehicle

Posted by: Skip at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (fwDg9)

297 EVs...

still more popular than Mike Pence.
Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (eD8KA)

***

Syphilis...

Still more popular than Mike Pence

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (ZV+pB)

298 I can't wait for the Travis Kelce break up song....

Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (FQmDC)

299 266
What would be funnier than hell is if What's his name dumped Tay-Tay for Lizzo.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (bVfY0)

300 >>"I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.

'Pumped and Dumped'

Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (eD8KA)

301 Kamala Harris Downplays Political Ambition: ‘Biden Is Very Much Alive’

Posted by: SMOD at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (RHGPo)

302 We don't need no flamey, sparky cars!

Thing is, they burn for DAYS, so a good heat source when natural gas is outlawed and no one can afford electricity.
Posted by: nurse ratched

Except you can't get close enough to feel the warmth for the burning lithium.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (Y2tls)

303 *that was supposed to be Venezuela Norte (damn auto-cucumber, but Morte works as well ...

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (FVR5P)

304 Companies often make stupid decisions. Massive ones.

Ford Edsel is a really great example of that.

But to have an entire industry make this many stupid decisions, you need the government.

Government: Just another word for what we do together... at the point of a gun.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (zjgNU)

305 The key question for any mode of transportation:

Is this more or less convenient than just riding a damn horse?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (GZ+sX)

306 If you turn that chart 90 degrees counterclockwise, both are going up!

/s/ Harvard graduate with a degree that proves he's smarter than you.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (QDIvD)

307 Except you can't get close enough to feel the warmth for the burning lithium.
Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:53 AM (Y2tls)

Stay warm and treat bipolar disorder at the same time!

Posted by: Ahhhh, smell the stability at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (B9RjC)

308 As many have pointed out, its when socialist schemes fail to produce that the real coercion starts. They promise "green energy" but what we'll get is No Energy (for personal transportation). They can (and likely will) effectively outlaw the ICO, unless an "essential worker" for "essential" (i.e. government) function and functionaries.

So from their point of view you can bicycle in your 15 minute city and like it.

Posted by: Zek at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (5FPX4)

309 Once a month I drive by the Kentucky Blue Oval battery plant under construction on 65 north of Bowling Green, KY. It's a $6 billion joint venture with SK Inno (South Korean EV battery maker). They continue to build this massive plant (it's huge - one of the largest industrial construction projects in the USA right now).

Heading for ghost town status so it seems.

Posted by: Java Joe at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (WaLgG)

310 >>> The reality of electric vehicles is that they can be 1,000 pounds heavier or more than gas vehicles, and they move faster, with higher torque. Since they're extremely zippy and heavier, it's just physics -- the ability to overcome inertia so quickly is going to effect their suspension systems,

Sounds like fun on icy roads.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (GTQR/)

311 I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama

Personally, I can't figure out why she's viewed as a hottie. She's just kind of meh, IMO.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (V8he0)

312 *checks Tinder date with Paolo*
Posted by: American ex-wives

The Paolo suggests, how you say, that calling The Paolo's visit a 'date' implies a dignity that does not exist.

Posted by: The Paolo at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (IaTa3)

313 The charging waiting would torture me to no end. I seen people waiting far from home wasting a Saturday just to charge their vehicle
Posted by: Skip

Ignore the itony. Carry a gas generator on a trailer with you. For "emergencies".

😂😂😂

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (Y2tls)

314

Most people don't want EVs because they're frivolous toys.

Those who do want EVs aren't willing to pay the actual price sans massive subsidies.

That should tell you something.

And if Trump or DeSantis win they should gut those subsidies first day in.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 30, 2023 11:55 AM (QzZeQ)

315 Interesting that the EV market is collapsing just after the auto makers stopped making ICE vehicles in quantities. Like, there's an effort to make the public less mobile, perhaps more dependent on FedGov to move around.

I certainly don't see Ford, GM or Chrysler ramping up production for vehicles put out to pasture.

I've always thought the plan our betters had in store was to pull a 'bait and switch' with EV's. In the future there wont be vehicles of any kind within the normal person's financial reach.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 30, 2023 11:55 AM (Q4IgG)

316 Tesla went off a 300 ft cliff and all four inside survived with minor injuries (an over night stay at hospital for observation).
IF I lived and worked in the city, especially if workplace had charging station, it would be high on my list of considerations.
Posted by: Braenyard at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (42fr6)

Don’t use the parking garage unless they reinforce it.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 11:55 AM (MNhXM)

317 253 EVs...

still more popular than Mike Pence.
Posted by: garrett at October 30, 2023 11:47 AM (eD8KA)

Tick bites and poison ivy are more popular than Mike Pence in this household.

Posted by: Question authority bumper sticker at October 30, 2023 11:55 AM (Rbu5d)

318
TS. Imagine a woman of 33 who looks like she's 23 and sounds like she's 13.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:56 AM (MoZTd)

319 I'd rather have polio than Mike Pence!

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 11:56 AM (Y2tls)

320 >>TS. Imagine a woman of 33 who looks like she's 23 and sounds like she's 13.

How old does she smell, tho?

Posted by: Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (eD8KA)

321 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
***

Gone by Halftime

Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (uSHSS)

322 268 As a volunteer firefighter we just locally had to pour thousands of gallons of water to cool down - not extinguish - and EV fire recently. I will never own one. Period.
Posted by: Danimal28 at October 30, 2023 11:49 AM (klw0w)

How do hybrid vehicle fires compare with regard to effort required to extinguish? And, do they ever spontaneously combust while not in use?

Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (DTX3h)

323 Imagine a woman of 33 who looks like she's 23 and sounds like she's 13.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:56 AM (MoZTd)

*does as directed*

AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!
The PAIN! THE PAAAAAAIIIIINNNNN!!!!!

Posted by: I am now scarred for life. at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (B9RjC)

324 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom

***

Who's to say that I won't write a song about it...

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (ZV+pB)

325 Mike Pence is Chris Christie without the morbid obesity

Posted by: steevy at October 30, 2023 11:58 AM (FQmDC)

326 "But there's also a lot of ruin in following government fads, as Ford is finding out."

The ruin is in a government that distorts markets with subsidies, tax tricks, punitive regulations, etc, that create the perverse industrial incentives, with no consideration for unintended consequences. I don't think the automakers would have taken such a deep dive if the government hadn't filled the pool for them.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:58 AM (MvF+J)

327 I've always thought the plan our betters had in store was to pull a 'bait and switch' with EV's. In the future there wont be vehicles of any kind within the normal person's financial reach.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 30, 2023 11:55 AM

*shifty eyes*

You might very well think that. We couldn't possibly comment."

*shifty eyes*

Posted by: The WEF at October 30, 2023 11:58 AM (vqhPW)

328

On the other hand, they rechargeable lithium ion vibrator market has never been more robust and growing!

Posted by: Monday at October 30, 2023 11:58 AM (xX1BH)

329 The second EV battery plant being built in Kentucky by "Blue Oval" (Ford's EV division) was recently put on hold.

Regardless, Ford's likely to go tits up in another couple years anyway.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 30, 2023 11:06 AM (Q4IgG)
==
Ford has a real problem. It has the big selling truck - the F-150, which no longer sells to construction minded people and businesses because of its aluminum bed which is worthless. The have decent SUV's, but if you want domestic, GM's are better, and Toyota and Nissan are strong quality options. Their ICE cars are garbage based upon any mechanic I've ever spoken to.

GM's woefully unqualified CEO will be saved by Ford's faster moving inept CEO. GM still has a full product line they can sell. But Mary Barre needs to go quickly.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 30, 2023 11:58 AM (GZYu7)

330 321 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
***

Gone by Halftime

Monkey-Trucker.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 30, 2023 11:59 AM (bVfY0)

331 "Who's to say that I won't write a song about it..."

Oh hell yes, I would too. I seek virality.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 11:59 AM (MvF+J)

332 "Usual Disclaimer: Tesla is a successful manufacturer of a boutique product...It is a niche product of limited utility."

The Tesla Model Y is set to finish the year 2023 as the best-selling car in the world. Not EV... Car.

Respected Wall Street analysts have valued Tesla at about $700 Billion, Toyota at $400 Billion, everybody else below $100 Billion.

Although you make many valid points, a lot of the angst in Detroit and Europe is positioning for government to bail them out, again. And anyone who attributes Tesla's success to grift is simply misinformed.

In summary, to paraphrase Churchill, "Some boutique, some niche!"

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at October 30, 2023 11:59 AM (OCVty)

333 Aw fuck.

Posted by: Glitch McConnell at October 30, 2023 12:00 PM (l10hq)

334 I think the Edsel gets a bad rap or at least should share their face of failure with the DeDoto, Studebaker, Nash and Packard.

I think the US entered a recession when the Edsel was released.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 12:01 PM (MNhXM)

335 Imagine a woman of 33 who looks like she's 23 and sounds like she's 13.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 30, 2023 11:56 AM

Now imagine a 26 yr old man trying to look like an 18 yr old woman and sounding like a 13 yr old girl.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 12:01 PM (vqhPW)

336 How do hybrid vehicle fires compare with regard to effort required to extinguish? And, do they ever spontaneously combust while not in use?
Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik

Must be how they use a smaller battery pack because you rarely hear of one going hot.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:01 PM (Y2tls)

337 Lithium was a big step forward in battery technology but it's not enough for EVs. Gasoline has about 50 times the energy density. Wake me up when they make another quantum leap in battery technology, more power per pound, more charging cycles, and faster charging. Then I'll want one for the home backup, but not for transportation.

Posted by: These Fish Sticks Are Hard As Tits at October 30, 2023 12:01 PM (Somy5)

338 Now imagine a 26 yr old man trying to look like an 18 yr old woman and sounding like a 13 yr old girl.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

Lia Thomas, the swimmer?

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:02 PM (Y2tls)

339 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom

***

Who's to say that I won't write a song about it...
Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (ZV+pB)

***

Bitch Hen North of Richmond

Posted by: Truck Monkey Report at October 30, 2023 12:02 PM (ZV+pB)

340 I'm not going to go on my full TS rant again, but she was a snotty bitch 17 years ago and I imagine she's only worse now. In my experience her parents were always personable, though.

Posted by: Bert G at October 30, 2023 12:02 PM (VARTN)

341 Although you make many valid points, a lot of the angst in Detroit and Europe is positioning for government to bail them out, again. And anyone who attributes Tesla's success to grift is simply misinformed.

-----------------

Much of Tesla's success is due to grift as they took advantage of the government subsidies offered. But Tesla has certainly differentiated themselves as well.

But completely agree, Ford and GM can always make bad business decisions as the government has consistently been willing to bail them out.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at October 30, 2023 12:02 PM (sX1BW)

342 Lia Thomas, the swimmer?
Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:02 PM

I was thinking Dylan Mulvaney, but your point is valid.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 30, 2023 12:03 PM (vqhPW)

343 How do hybrid vehicle fires compare with regard to effort required to extinguish? And, do they ever spontaneously combust while not in use?

Most Toyota hybrids use NiMH or LiFePo batteries and their software is much more conservative than Tesla's so the batteries last longer and don't have those kinds of issues.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:03 PM (2ocoG)

344 339 LOL!

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:03 PM (MvF+J)

345 Joe Mannix--Your math is off. The EV cost is 6.4 cents/mile using your own numbrrs.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at October 30, 2023 12:03 PM (PGtkS)

346 If the goal is fuel economy, bring back the Ford Focus and other sedans that were discontinued when the EV push began. 40+ mpg on the highway is good enough.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (fxCK2)

The goal is to push hoi polloi into "15 minute" cities to work for government-mandated wages. Oh, and to put bugs on the menu.
Posted by: mrp at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM

I know that's the overarching goal, but the first company to go back to making Dad-Mom-and-2-kiddos, fuel-sipping cars would make bank.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (fxCK2)

347 Personally, I can't figure out why she's viewed as a hottie. She's just kind of meh, IMO.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at October 30, 2023 11:54 AM (V8he0)

Bucket of Lincoln Logs.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (48xVe)

348 EVs can never be a replacement unless we build a 100 more nuclear plants.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (MNhXM)

349 I think the Edsel gets a bad rap or at least should share their face of failure with the DeDoto, Studebaker, Nash and Packard.

Yeah, the Edsel wasn't an obviously bad car, it just wasn't what people wanted headed into a pretty major recession.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (2ocoG)

350 "Women are inexplicable.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom"

It ads to the attraction.

Men are much more logical.

Look. Man throw, catch, hit, kick ball. Wow

'Pulls out wallet and forks over all money there.'

Posted by: Ripley at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (JojsZ)

351 The goal is to push hoi polloi into "15 minute" cities to work for government-mandated wages. Oh, and to put bugs on the menu.
Posted by: mrp at October 30, 2023 11:37 AM

I know that's the overarching goal, but the first company to go back to making Dad-Mom-and-2-kiddos, fuel-sipping cars would make bank.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (fxCK2)

The funny thing is, the companies did not realize that the 'plan' is for them to be out of business.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (48xVe)

352 EVs can never be a replacement unless we build a 100 more nuclear plants.

I'm all for 100 more nuclear plants.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (2ocoG)

353 321 "I, for one, would like to ride Taylor Swift once or twice. Just a test drive... no drama"

I wonder what title she will put on that song.
***

Gone by Halftime
Posted by: Diogenes at October 30, 2023 11:57 AM (uSHSS)

How the Horde made me a man

Posted by: XTC at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (UnA8+)

354 Or find a charger that isn't in reduced-output mode and so can charge quickly, or hunting for an adapter if you want to use a functional Tesla Supercharger (next year, when it opens) instead of a non-functional "Electrify America" charger.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 11:52 AM (ELpxa)

I have read that using the high output chargers significantly reduces battery life.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (3Gtis)

355 Ford will survive this because we the taxpayers will bail them out. Again. And again. The federal gov will bleed us dry to protect these large corps and the labor unions.

Posted by: demonsheep at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (DvKPL)

356 I know that's the overarching goal, but the first company to go back to making Dad-Mom-and-2-kiddos, fuel-sipping cars would make bank.

Which is why it's going to be illegal.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (2ocoG)

357 352 EVs can never be a replacement unless we build a 100 more nuclear plants.

I'm all for 100 more nuclear plants.
Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (2ocoG)

Me too!

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:06 PM (48xVe)

358 I know that's the overarching goal, but the first company to go back to making Dad-Mom-and-2-kiddos, fuel-sipping cars would make bank.
Posted by: NaughtyPine at October 30, 2023 12:04 PM (fxCK2)
++++
Can't be done. Between safety and technology requirements and, ironically, fuel economy requirements (as implemented today), such a product could not be sold.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 12:06 PM (ELpxa)

359 'He Put Hot Iron to It.'

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:06 PM (48xVe)

360 I have read that using the high output chargers significantly reduces battery life.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (3Gtis)
++++
It does. You don't want to make a habit out of it (charge at home, overnight, at lower current), but if you're on the road, then you're on the road.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 12:07 PM (ELpxa)

361 Imma gonna start calling my gas car a "carbon cell net zero emissions" vehicle.

It has a carbon fuel cell that emits no more carbon into the atmosphere than was in the atmosphere before.

Before start date is 185 million BC.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 12:07 PM (QDIvD)

362 Yeah, the Edsel wasn't an obviously bad car, it just wasn't what people wanted headed into a pretty major recession.
Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023

***
Some models had a gimmick, a push-button transmission. Given the state of electronics in 1957, I'll bet that featured a *lot* of actual wires and a *lot* of glitches.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 30, 2023 12:07 PM (J2vNu)

363 It seems like rental cars would be the worst possible use for an EV. People who rent cars are disproportionally heading off into the unknown. "EVs" + "unknown" = a bad bad time, with margins between ok and not ok being measured in a few minutes or a few miles
Posted by: arminius at October 30, 2023 11:32 AM (Dpgtk)

Also, as I understand it, even a minor collision requires that the EV be totaled as battery integrity can no longer be ensured.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 30, 2023 12:07 PM (uvymP)

364 350 It frees the mind to accept female inexplicability, and to stop trying to divine it. It is what it is. No hard feelings.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (MvF+J)

365 Ignorant and incompetent upper management at these auto companies were unreasonably influenced by flawed woke ideology.

Either they anticipated government bailouts as payment for going along with these idiotic business decisions, or they bought into the green religion without a realistic look at what was being pushed and how the public was likely to respond.

E-vehicles are an expensive toy for the rich and virtue-signalling twats. The vast majority of Americans are content with their ICE vehicles and have neither the financial resources nor inclination to switch over to such imperfect technology.

This will be a great case study at Harvard B-school and Wharton in another decade or two.

Posted by: ruralcounsel at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (96wFa)

366 “23 Also, Fuck Gaia. It has been trying to kill me since the day I was born.”
Legion of Boom
Heh. Perfect.

Posted by: FINGERS at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (lnw9s)

367 Ford will survive this because we the taxpayers will bail them out. Again. And again. The federal gov will bleed us dry to protect these large corps and the labor unions.
Posted by: demonsheep at October 30, 2023 12:05 PM (DvKPL)

Ford didn't take the bailout last time around like Government Motors did.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (Zz0t1)

368 EVs can never be a replacement unless we build a 100 more nuclear plants.

I'm all for 100 more nuclear plants.
Posted by: Ian S.
---
An actual advanced civilization--which we are not-- would have mini-nuke powered flying cars.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (QDIvD)

369 It frees the mind to accept female inexplicability, and to stop trying to divine it. It is what it is. No hard feelings.
Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (MvF+J)

The crazy /hot matrix is real .

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 12:09 PM (MNhXM)

370 I did the math recently for a grad course research paper - using average costs for the US you end up with around 5 to 7 cents per mile to power an EV and 12 to 14 for an ICE (this is just for operation - does not account for maintenance costs), Given the $10k ish bump for a similar class car that you get for an EV, you need to driver it about 125000 miles to equalize the cost, considering all the issues EV's have, has any owner actually put that many miles on their car?

Posted by: Ryan Frank at October 30, 2023 12:09 PM (fgmuN)

371 Ford didn't take the bailout last time around like Government Motors did.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (Zz0t1)

I think in the final reckoning they were forced to take the money.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:09 PM (48xVe)

372 Some models had a gimmick, a push-button transmission. Given the state of electronics in 1957, I'll bet that featured a *lot* of actual wires and a *lot* of glitches.

IIRC it was a cable-per-button, not electronic at all.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:10 PM (2ocoG)

373 Ford will survive this because we the taxpayers will bail them out. Again. And again. The federal gov will bleed us dry to protect these large corps and the labor unions...

--

I'm starting to lean towards this being the plan re:EVs all along.

A self-licking lollipop, with the same people who would bail out the EV industry being the politicians and their family members who invested in them.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:10 PM (O69GV)

374 I was thinking Dylan Mulvaney, but your point is valid.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState

Oooooh. Yours too.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (Y2tls)

375 372 Yup.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (MvF+J)

376 So, does this mean that Biden's Corvette has a shot at the Secretary of Transportation slot? It can't do worse than Pothole Pete does now, and it might roll back the EV mandates that would destroy it.

If were in the end of empire days, let's act like it and nominate cars as senators!

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (mNmNo)

377 I'd be ok with 15 minute cities--which most people lived in 100 years ago--if we had the freedoms of 100 years ago.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (QDIvD)

378 Some models had a gimmick, a push-button transmission. Given the state of electronics in 1957, I'll bet that featured a *lot* of actual wires and a *lot* of glitches.

IIRC it was a cable-per-button, not electronic at all.

Posted by: Ian S.

-

We drove a new Honda Pilot a couple of weeks ago. It had a push button transmission. It was very disconcerting.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (O69GV)

379 Also, as I understand it, even a minor collision requires that the EV be totaled as battery integrity can no longer be ensured.

They can determine if the battery was tweaked (if the frame was bent is the usual first-level check). But Teslas in particular get totaled a lot for minor collisions because they make all their money on repair parts. A couple of body panels cost more than you paid for the car.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (2ocoG)

380 They all took the money in the bailout. I'm curious, when was the last time any of the 3 top US car manufactures made any money? Was that when Lee Iacocca was around?

Posted by: sidney at October 30, 2023 12:12 PM (Uy/WF)

381 Some models had a gimmick, a push-button transmission. Given the state of electronics in 1957, I'll bet that featured a *lot* of actual wires and a *lot* of glitches.

IIRC it was a cable-per-button, not electronic at all.
Posted by: Ian S.

Same with the heat & air. Manual is better.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:12 PM (Y2tls)

382 "Blue states like California have outlawed the sale of non-EVs in just a few years"

Hopefully it means that they'll all be walking everywhere, and then their constituents get tired of walking and start decorating lampposts with the people who proposed and signed the bill

Posted by: FeatherBlade at October 30, 2023 12:12 PM (ou9hh)

383 ord didn't take the bailout last time around like Government Motors did

--

I wonder if GM is required to pay federal taxes yet? I remember that was a big part of the deal no one else could ever get. They were exempt per the feds for years and years.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:13 PM (O69GV)

384 I'd be ok with 15 minute cities--which most people lived in 100 years ago--if we had the freedoms of 100 years ago.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice

Thompson submachine gun and Browning BAR on sale at corner hardware store.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (Y2tls)

385 They all took the money in the bailout. I'm curious, when was the last time any of the 3 top US car manufactures made any money? Was that when Lee Iacocca was around?
Posted by: sidney at October 30, 2023 1

***
As we used to say in the Eighties, "Buy a Chrysler -- win a date with Lee Iacocca!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (J2vNu)

386 They can determine if the battery was tweaked (if the frame was bent is the usual first-level check). But Teslas in particular get totaled a lot for minor collisions because they make all their money on repair parts. A couple of body panels cost more than you paid for the car.

Posted by: Ian S.

-

BuT YOu SaVE SIxTy DoLLArs a YeaR in OiL ChangES!!!!

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (O69GV)

387 370 I did the math recently for a grad course research paper - using average costs for the US you end up with around 5 to 7 cents per mile to power an EV and 12 to 14 for an ICE (this is just for operation - does not account for maintenance costs), Given the $10k ish bump for a similar class car that you get for an EV, you need to driver it about 125000 miles to equalize the cost, considering all the issues EV's have, has any owner actually put that many miles on their car?
Posted by: Ryan Frank at October 30, 2023 12:09 PM (fgmuN)

====================

There must not be many - responses to queries about things like "how long do EV batteries last" seem to always refer to projections, not to experience.

(The projected battery life is 100K to 200K so the EV might incur a 4K to 20K cost for battery replacement prior to the 125,000 mile threshold.)

Posted by: Oglebay at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (ogTiX)

388 We drove a new Honda Pilot a couple of weeks ago. It had a push button transmission. It was very disconcerting.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:11 PM (O69GV)

I can almost accept paddle shift might be interesting. Push button? Might as well have an auto.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (48xVe)

389 Well since the consumers won't consume the electric cars the consumers will bail out the electric car companies and eventually will only have electric cars to buy. Because your government knows what you want. It's a soft dictatorship.

Posted by: torabora at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (igNpK)

390 383 ord didn't take the bailout last time around like Government Motors did

--

I wonder if GM is required to pay federal taxes yet? I remember that was a big part of the deal no one else could ever get. They were exempt per the feds for years and years.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:13 PM (O69GV)

Not sure if it's what you're thinking of, but the new company received the losses of the old bankrupt company. It's a specific value that offsets future earnings until it's used up.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (eYoxG)

391 I live up in the Pac NW, where (until the green fascists start breaching dams to "save the orcas") we have relatively cheap electricity. But even up here, the infrastructure for them (charging stations) blows. And it would take DECADES to build it up. Add to that the fact that it gets COLD in the winter, we get snow in our mountain passes, we rely on a lot of long haul trucks and rail to transport goods (like pretty much everywhere), and the sun doesn't always shine up here, it is sheer lunacy to think that EVs will ever be more than a pricey niche item.

And unless and until the greenies get serious about nuclear, we won't be decarbonizing our energy sector anytime soon.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at October 30, 2023 12:15 PM (uY1j2)

392 (The projected battery life is 100K to 200K so the EV might incur a 4K to 20K cost for battery replacement prior to the 125,000 mile threshold.)
Posted by: Oglebay at October 30, 2023 12:14 PM (ogTiX)
++++
And long gone are the days of "the car hit 100k miles so the engine and transmission are on borrowed time."

Solid engines nowadays are good to 350k or more, transmissions to at least 150k for the bad ones.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 12:15 PM (ELpxa)

393 Manual heat? Is that a little container under the dash you put the hot coal in?

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (48xVe)

394 Given the $10k ish bump for a similar class car that you get for an EV, you need to driver it about 125000 miles to equalize the cost, considering all the issues EV's have, has any owner actually put that many miles on their car?
Posted by: Ryan Frank

--

There was a piece couple of months ago on data that had been gathered over the years. Most non-Teslas are driven 6000 miles per year.

Also it's weird how the additional tire wear and high additional cost for low-resistance tires are never in the "cost" mix.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (O69GV)

395 Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:13 PM (O69GV)

I noticed that the government started going hard after Toyota (the "stuck gas pedal" hoax, etc) immediately after buying GM.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (nC+QA)

396 If car manufacturers don't make EVs, they won't get any likes on Twitter!!!

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (H9sxy)

397 An actual advanced civilization--which we are not-- would have mini-nuke powered flying cars.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 30, 2023 12:08 PM (QDIvD)

---------

Where the f*ck is my mini-nuke powered jet pack?

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (dX28C)

398

All the automakers are in the process of building EV battery plants, and all of them are using joint ventures with battery manufacturers such as Samsung to build and run the plants. They have all insisted that will make the employees of the plants employees of the joint ventures, not the automakers themselves. And the pay at US EV battery plants that have opened so far is a fraction of what UAW members get when working for the automakers.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (63Dwl)

399 There was a piece couple of months ago on data that had been gathered over the years. Most non-Teslas are driven 6000 miles per year.

Also it's weird how the additional tire wear and high additional cost for low-resistance tires are never in the "cost" mix.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (O69GV)
---
I've had my little Nissan Sentra for over 20 years and only have around 70,000 miles on it. I'm still not getting an EV because I can't afford it and don't want it.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (YIVH2)

400 The Ewok Awakens.

Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (48xVe)

401 NOODlum.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at October 30, 2023 12:18 PM (Zz0t1)

402 Manual heat? Is that a little container under the dash you put the hot coal in?
Posted by: Aetius451AD Work Laptop at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (48xVe)

There once was manual A/C. Thing hung in the window with water/ice in it and as it evaporated in the breeze cooled the inside of your car or truck.

Forgot it's name...

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at October 30, 2023 12:18 PM (R/m4+)

403 Noodus kamel-toe

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 30, 2023 12:18 PM (J2vNu)

404 355 "Ford will survive this because we the taxpayers will bail them out. Again..."

To be fair, Ford did not declare bankruptcy as GM and Chrysler did. Not saying the govt never helped them, but they did handle the economic crash much better than their rivals.

Some analysts think Tesla, Toyota, and maybe Ford, will be the only survivors of the coming shakeout. They make the point that there will still be other recognizable car brands, (e.g., Chevy) but they will be just names, not owned by (say) GM.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at October 30, 2023 12:18 PM (OCVty)

405 nood

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:18 PM (MvF+J)

406 There was a piece couple of months ago on data that had been gathered over the years. Most non-Teslas are driven 6000 miles per year.

I currently do 23,040 miles a year driving only 3 days a week, with ZERO side trips.

Posted by: rickb223 at October 30, 2023 12:19 PM (Y2tls)

407 "Didn't it take a world war for one of those "people's car" companies to enter the market?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 30, 2023 11:34 AM (N39Ws) "

well, the administration is working on that right now, top men on the job!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at October 30, 2023 12:19 PM (+vFC3)

408 I've had my little Nissan Sentra for over 20 years and only have around 70,000 miles on it. I'm still not getting an EV because I can't afford it and don't want it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at October 30, 2023 12:17 PM (YIVH2)

I sold my mom’s 1997 Sentra last year I bought new for her. It had 16,297 miles.

Posted by: Drive by at October 30, 2023 12:19 PM (MNhXM)

409 There it is:

"Usually, companies that undergo a significant change in ownership risk having major restrictions put on their tax benefits. The U.S. bailout of GM, in which the Treasury took a 61% stake in the company, ordinarily would have resulted in GM having such limits put on its tax benefits, according to tax experts.

But the federal government, in a little-noticed ruling last year, decided that companies that received U.S. bailout money under the Troubled Asset Relief Program won't fall under that rule."

https://tinyurl.com/ypozybuk

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:20 PM (O69GV)

410 and nood!

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying for decades at October 30, 2023 12:20 PM (+vFC3)

411 If car manufacturers don't make EVs, they won't get any likes on Twitter!!!

--

This guy understands the market!!!

Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:20 PM (O69GV)

412 "Forgot it's name..."

Frozorola. Chill-Ease.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:21 PM (MvF+J)

413 I, and others, have said before and will continue to say it's not about getting us all into EVs; it's about getting us out of ICE vehicles and into easily controlled hives. Gotta keep the peasants on foot, malnourished, unarmed, and corralled.

Posted by: butch at October 30, 2023 12:22 PM (TBRil)

414 There was a piece couple of months ago on data that had been gathered over the years. Most non-Teslas are driven 6000 miles per year.

Also it's weird how the additional tire wear and high additional cost for low-resistance tires are never in the "cost" mix.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:16 PM (O69GV)

---

Honestly it was a pain in the ass enough to try to put numbers on what is essentially the fuel cost. Because they are marketed to such a narrow part of the public its hard to get an apples to apple comparison on what 'standard' maintenance costs should be. Some luxury ICE cars also have stupid high maintenance costs as well.

Posted by: Ryan Frank at October 30, 2023 12:22 PM (fgmuN)

415 409 There it is:

"Usually, companies that undergo a significant change in ownership risk having major restrictions put on their tax benefits. The U.S. bailout of GM, in which the Treasury took a 61% stake in the company, ordinarily would have resulted in GM having such limits put on its tax benefits, according to tax experts.

But the federal government, in a little-noticed ruling last year, decided that companies that received U.S. bailout money under the Troubled Asset Relief Program won't fall under that rule."

https://tinyurl.com/ypozybuk
Posted by: Moron Robbie - If you're on a well, make sure you've got a spare pressure switch at October 30, 2023 12:20 PM (O69GV)

That does seem like it's related to the losses the business had pre-bankruptcy, which became a tax-loss carryforward.

Those should be exhausted by now based on a number I'm seeing cited in 2018.

Posted by: Red Turban Someguy - The Republic is already dead! at October 30, 2023 12:22 PM (eYoxG)

416 393 Heaters in cars were an option. I was watching a car show featuring a Model A, and the heater was simply a funnel drawing heat from the engine bay, with a butterfly valve the driver or passenger could open or close. Very early cars, brass era and Model Ts were often sold with a box to hold a heated brick placed by the feet. VW beetles with their notorious bad heat often came with a gas heater. Sold a 61 to a friend and he defeated the timer so it would run and keep the car warm while he was drinking. He came out of the bar and the passenger front tire was smoldering being near the heater's exhaust.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at October 30, 2023 12:23 PM (0EOe9)

417 Hey climate cultist EV manufacturers....

we forsake you
gonna rape you
let's forget you better still

Posted by: look whats not at October 30, 2023 12:24 PM (nakGR)

418 IceBreeze. Polarac.

Posted by: gp In The Center Of A Stool Boom at October 30, 2023 12:25 PM (MvF+J)

419 Speaking of EVs, not sure if you have already posted about this, Buck, but a friend of mine alerted me to this a week or so ago:

The Luton Airport Fire: https://bit.ly/3QG5KzK

This guy gives a good breakdown showing that the airport garage fire, that ended up setting aflame every car in the parking garage, was started by an EV. Yet there is apparently a cover-up going on, as the powers that be are blaming the catastrophe on a diesel vehicle.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at October 30, 2023 12:27 PM (/azSq)

420 >>>Ford didn't take the bailout last time around like Government Motors did.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden
---

Ford unionized at the point of FDR's gun, literally.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 30, 2023 12:27 PM (42fr6)

421 How come Greta isn't a paid shill for EVs?

HOW DARE YOU TO NOT BUY THIS CAR!

Posted by: torabora at October 30, 2023 12:27 PM (igNpK)

422 Our town has a lot of old retired hot rodders, and there are frequently gatherings where they can show off their vehicles.

One had this contraption attached to the passenger side rear window, and I asked the owner what it was. It was an original swamp cooler ... pretty cool!

Posted by: ShainS -- Overimaginative Scamp and AGAAVE Plant at October 30, 2023 12:28 PM (dX28C)

423 G.M. has always been first on the govt tit and most favored by the govt. (|)

Posted by: Braenyard at October 30, 2023 12:28 PM (42fr6)

424 Ford is also threatening to pull out of the Blue Oval facility they were to build in Marshall, MI.

After the State of Michigan has already sunk nearly a billion dollars into it!
Good job Whitmer!!!

Posted by: Bugsdaddy at October 30, 2023 12:29 PM (PF9PP)

425 422 Those work!. Superintendent on a job in AZ had one for his beater truck. Sometimes he would load it with ice. Even with just water it made a big difference.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at October 30, 2023 12:31 PM (0EOe9)

426 share their face of failure with the DeDoto, Studebaker, Nash and Packard.

Imma go out on the limb and state that with a gun to your head, you could not relate what actually became of any of those brands. BTW WTF is a "DeDoto"?

Studebaker/Packard made a conscious choice to leave a part of the industry that they could see had no long term future. They did not go bankrupt, and no one lost their investment. They went into other businesses, and have owned several other major firms.

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at October 30, 2023 12:38 PM (4PZHB)

427 Incentives, hell. Time for government coercion.

Posted by: Ordinary American at October 30, 2023 12:38 PM (GFoyL)

428 I'm not so negative about Es - they serve a purpose. I am negative about attempts to shove them down people's throats. And also adopt them before the infrastructure is ready.

In a 14 million car market, I could see EVs being 1.4 million cars or so. 10% seems about right.

And, if you want people to buy EVs, make EVs better. Get to say 600 miles of range and < $40k for all models. That is likely doable in the next 5 years.

Posted by: Fire! Bad! at October 30, 2023 12:38 PM (8E/8X)

429 the myriad of subsidies/taxes/deductions/regulations make it impossible to know if EVs would be viable in a free market

Posted by: Bitcoin Fixes Everything at October 30, 2023 12:41 PM (V6W16)

430 And long gone are the days of "the car hit 100k miles so the engine and transmission are on borrowed time."

Solid engines nowadays are good to 350k or more, transmissions to at least 150k for the bad ones.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 30, 2023 12:15 PM (ELpxa)

368,000 miles on my '06 Mustang GT. Oil/filter changes every 3000 miles. Most of the mileage is highway. 56 miles each way to work, 5 days a week. From Feb '06 to Dec 2019, when I retired.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at October 30, 2023 12:45 PM (h4nev)

431 We need to build 100 nuclear power plants just to keep the lights on. Convert the entire US to electricity, and somebody will have the job of shipping our oil and coal, the finest anywhere, to China to be burned in what amounts to open pits. "Smithfield Ham."

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at October 30, 2023 12:48 PM (4PZHB)

432 The Lightning sucks as a road vehicle, but it sounds like it might make an excellent yard tug, taking advantage of its pulling torque and being able to keep it charged up. Especially in enclosed work places where emissions actually are important.

Posted by: Michael Gilson at October 30, 2023 01:18 PM (kS4zg)

433 A Tesla model 3 is now cheaper than the average new car. Hardly a boutique product.

Posted by: Sixiron at October 30, 2023 01:24 PM (c4Wfm)

434 "... share their face of failure with the DeDoto [sic], Studebaker, Nash and Packard."

Nash and Packard combined to form American Motors, which is now part of Chrysler. Studebaker, which started out making horse-drawn carriages, went into other areas of manufacturing.

Ford and GM are in the unenviable position of having an inferior technology forced on them by our government. In some ways, they went into it willingly; after all, if the EV thing ever took hold, every car owner in the country would be compelled to replace his ICE car with a new EV that was more expensive to buy and whose key component (the battery) had a relatively short lifespan. They thought they'd make out like bandits; but consumers are not cooperating.

Posted by: Nemo at October 30, 2023 01:42 PM (S6ArX)

435 I own 3 cars. One is electric. Home charging makes it extremely cheap to drive. The electric motor is very silent and agile like a ninja. Alot of fun to drive. Impractical for towing or long trips but I have other cars for those.

Left love to say that electric cars are like computers we just have to wait for technology development. That is a horrible example.

We have had battery's and electric motors for as long as internal combustion. All that has happened to our battery in a century is we went from lead acid to cobalt/lithium and other extremely rare earth mineral battery. More expensive/more dangerous. Slightly better.

Things like solid state and other battery tech are over the horizon. I do think it's worth putting the research into but everything is over the horizon.

Posted by: Shiggz (defective slave) at October 30, 2023 02:19 PM (0SrVS)

436 No! That's not true! That's impossible! Nooooo!

Posted by: Not Joe Xiden at October 30, 2023 03:09 PM (xttsV)

437 Just like those early aircraft with multible wings that ended up falling apart and small planes that crashed

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at October 30, 2023 04:47 PM (wGqjj)

438 FWIW, "A 'livery vehicle' remains a legal term of art in the U.S. and Canada for a vehicle for hire, such as a taxicab or chauffeured limousine, but excluding a rented vehicle driven by the renter."

Posted by: ewb at October 30, 2023 04:47 PM (WTzBo)

439 Something else that’s a problem for the car manufacturers is that, anticipating the EV (phone home) revolution, they cut back on the ICE development. Virtually every SUV my wife and I have been looking at from GM and Toyota come with moderately powered 4 cylinder engines. Fine for putting around the neighborhood, but underpowered on the highway.

You’ve got to push $50k to see a V6, and full-size suburbans for a V8. Those are stratospheric, much like pickups.

Posted by: Advo at October 30, 2023 07:50 PM (VHN21)

440 This issue is one of Marxists inside governments believing that they have the power to force consumers to buy crap. They were successful with compact florescent lightbulbs, so they tried it with automobiles and light trucks. Let's hope the Marxists don't up the ante by trying to use force. Keep an eye on whether the Biden administration starts ignoring federal judges. That will be the canary in the coal mine.

Posted by: Al in St. Louis at October 31, 2023 10:53 AM (XU3QZ)

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