Sunday Morning Book Thread - 04-23-2023 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading. Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, especially if you are wearing these pants...

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, warm up some toaster strudel, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

Lurker Chris sent the above pic, which is from the University of Santa Clara. They've implemented an automatic retrieval system (ARS) that allows patrons to search for the materials and have them delivered by robot to the library staff, who then take it to the patron. Chris also included a link to the following video, showing the ARS in action. I get a strong "Amazon" vibe watching the video. Also, kind of takes the fun out of wandering among the stacks of the library just looking for odd or interesting books.

UNFINISHED EPIC FANTASY

This epic rant from Larry Correia has popped up a few times here on the blog in the past week. In fact, Pixy Misa mentioned it on the Wednesday Tech Thread. So I thought I'd share some of my thoughts on the subject while it's still relatively fresh in my mind. If epic fantasy is not your bag, feel free to skip down to the more interesting sections below or just dive into the comments and talk about the books you are reading these days.

I believe Correia's argument can be boiled down to the following syllogism:

Epic fantasy is an exceptionally difficult genre to break into as a writer--especially for new authors--because it requires a huge investment of time and energy with no guarantee of a reward at the end.

George R.R. Martin and Patrick Rothfuss--being among the more popular fantasy authors who have unfinished series--have created a substantial backlash in the fan community *against* epic fantasy because of their inability (or outright refusal) to finish A Song of Ice and Fire(5 out of 7 books completed) and The Kingkiller Chronicles(2 out of 3 books completed), respectively.

Therefore, it's now even *harder* for new authors to write epic fantasy stories because of the reluctance of a very vocal subset of the fan community that has determined they will only read *finished* epic fantasy series.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I own both A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin and The Kingkiller Chronicles by Patrick Rothfuss. I don't understand the hype about these two authors because I found their writing to be competent, but overall I wasn't too keen on their stories. It's clear that Martin wanted the audience to like certain characters (Ned Stark, Jon Snow, Tyrian Lannister, etc.), but they come with flaws that to me make them somewhat unlikeable (Ned is an adulterer, Jon is an oathbreaker, and Tyrian commits patricide). In Rothfuss' series, I found the main character to be a bit too much of a Gary Stu for me to become invested in him. People rave about Rothfuss' prose, but it just didn't grab me like it does others. I must be jaded after reading too many other epic fantasy series with much better prose.

It's important to note that Correia's ire isn't directed at the entire epic fantasy fan community, but only those who have expressed their opinion that epic fantasy stories need to be completed before they'll even take a look at them. They are extremely vocal on the usual social media channels (e.g., Twitter and Reddit). They are also affecting sales by posting negative comments about series completion on Amazon reviews. They might LOVE the first book in the series, but give the author a 1 or 2 star review because the series isn't finished. That's not good for an author's reputation on Amazon, especially when they are just getting started. They may have the remaining books well in the publishing pipeline, but it takes time to go from book 1 to book 2 to book 3.

According to Correia, George R.R. Martin and Patrick Rothfuss between them have irrevocably damaged the epic fantasy genre to the point that it's nearly impossible for up-and-coming authors to break into that field. He spends a lot more time talking to writers and fans than I do, so he can see the state of the publishing field a lot more clearly than I can. I admit that I am somewhat reluctant to start new series myself, but that's mostly because my TBR pile is already several hundred books and growing. However, I can confidently say that I am not afraid to start a new series simply because it hasn't been finished. I picked up Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series after reading his enjoyable Night's Angel trilogy, which I had found at a used bookstore, I think, in omnibus format. At the time, only a couple of books in the series had been published, but it eventually ran through 5 books, each one more insane than the last. Definitely worth the wait, though some reviewers have mixed feelings. One series I'm currently hoping gets finished before I die is Jim Butcher's Cinder Spires. The first book came out in 2015, but there doesn't seem to be any future releases in the series any time soon. I know Butcher has released a couple of Dresden Files novels since then. He's nearing the end of that series, so that may be occupying most of his time. I think he's also been assisting his son James J. Butcher start his own publishing career, so I'll cut Jim Butcher some slack. I know he is more than capable of finishing a series and making it awesome (see the Codex Alera series).

As a lover of epic fantasy myself, I can say that anticipating the next book in the series is part of the enjoyment! I *LIKE* waiting for the next book, because it gives me something to look forward to. Now, if the next book doesn't show up in a reasonable time (2-3 years), then I'm likely to drop the author and move onto a new series. However, when the next book does show up, then there's a genuine pleasure in opening that package, or taking the book off the shelf at the bookstore, holding it in my hands, running my fingers over the cover, and hearing that first "crack" when you open the book to begin reading. One of the highlights of my reading experience was when Robert Jordan's final book in The Wheel of Time arrived on my doorstep. Now THAT was an epic series where I waited 22 years to complete the entire 15-book saga (14 books in the main series plus a prequel).

One epic fantasy series that has been ongoing intermittently for the past 40 years is P.C. Hodgell's Chronicles of the Kencyrath. The first three were published between 1982 and 1994. Then there's a 12-year gap until Book 4 was published in 2006. Then the publishing house Hodgell worked with went belly-up or something. Fortunately, Baen Books decided to start publishing her series again and the remaining 6 books that have been published so far were published between 2010 and 2022. It's an epic fantasy where I don't care if the author finishes it because the backdrop of the story is so grand that the events of the stories are only a miniscule part of a history stretching back over 30,000 years to the long distant past, when Perimal Darkling breached the Barrier protecting the Chain of Creation and started devouring world after world. Only the enigmatic Three-Faced God had the power to forge three races into a resistance force that have fought against the Perimal Darkling for millennia. It's huge and weird and just all around entertaining, even if the series is never finished. Highly recommended.

Many moons ago, when I was a teenager living overseas in Germany, the only access to books (besides the base library) was the local Stars and Stripes bookstore on the military base. During one of my many, many visits to said bookstore--which had a limited selection--I picked up a book by a relatively unknown author, Tad Williams, called The Dragonbone Chair, which was the first book in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn. I only chose it because it was a) fairly thick, at over 700 pages, b) had what I thought was interesting cover art (Michael Whelan), and c) had a decent premise in the back cover blurb. Also, the selection was very limited, so there wasn't much else to choose. This one book, by an unknown author, changed my life profoundly. Although the pacing was indeed slow, just the everyday life of the main character, Simon, was so immersive, I found it hard to put down. Then key events happened at the end of the first third of the book and I was hooked for the rest of the series. I eagerly awaited Book 2, Stone of Farewell, and when I was able to purchase it, I devoured it over a couple of days. Then I had to wait...and wait...and wait for the final volume, which didn't come out until my second year in college (1993). Naturally, as soon as I saw it was available, I took it home and devoured it as well. Just an amazing, incredible epic fantasy. It's the kind of story that George R.R. Martin and Patrick Rothfuss, both of whom were inspired by Tad Williams, wished they could write. I'm now eagerly awaiting the final novel, The Navigator's Children, in the sequel series, The Last King of Osten Ard. I've even put off reading Book 3, Into the Narrowdark, just so I can read the entire series from start to finish.

Since I've taken over the Sunday Book Thread, I've taken more time to read books written by Morons. I do this in part to support your writing activities. I also do it because I'm constantly surprised by the quality and care that Moron Authors put into their works. Genuine quality writing. Keep up the good work! And if you haven't tried reading a book by a Moron Author, I strongly encourage you to do so!

Enough of my own ranting...I'll just end with this video from The Library Ladder explaining why Tad Williams is worth your time if you are looking for someone you haven't read in epic fantasy. Or if you are looking to start, Tad Williams is an excellent entry point.

NOTE: Correia has another epic rant towards a former influential gossip columnist who destroyed his own credibility over time. This "cancerous tumor of the prolapsed anus of fandom" (Correia's words, not mine) objected to Correia's previous rant about Martin and Rothfuss, so Correia lets him have it with both barrels. Always fun to read.

++++++++++

(If this gets me banned, it's totally worth it!)

++++++++++

IT PAYS TO INCREASE YOUR (MEDIEVAL) WORD POWER

Here is something a little different. Since I started this Sunday Morning Book Thread talking about epic fantasy, which usually implies a medieval European-style setting, let's go back in history and look at some REAL words that we should be using nowadays but which have fallen into disuse:

++++++++++

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

This week I am reading Crossings: consisting of three manuscripts, by Alex Landragin.
Hey, fiction with a subtitle. It's my son's choice for family book club. The book is written to be read two ways: front to back as normal, or starting somewhere in the middle, and at the end of each chapter, a note to tell you what page to go to next. Almost like I imagine Choose Your Own Adventure books to be, though I never read those.
Just for kicks, I decided to try the second way. The basic theme of the book is that there are two characters from an 18th century tribe on a south Pacific island. The tribe has a tradition of "crossing," or switching bodies with another person. These two perform the crossing illegally, with multigenerational consequences.
I am really disoriented reading a book this way. I can't tell if I am still near the beginning, or near the end, or what. Apparently, I like to be able to measure my progress in reading a book, and this method takes that away.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 16, 2023 09:14 AM (OX9vb)

Comment: I know this isn't exactly a recommendation, but I do think it's an interesting way to tell a story. I'll probably do a post one of these days about "experimental" or non-conventional storytelling, where the author tries something different. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Making a story more confusing to the reader than it needs to be should be done with great care, and only if there is a satisfying payoff at the end, as the story suddenly makes sense.

+++++

I finished Joe Sharkey's true crime book, Above Suspicion, about a rookie FBI agent in 1980s Eastern Kentucky, and his relationship with a local female informant, which goes horribly wrong. I thought the book was extremely well written and Marc Cashmans narration performance was excellent. I am familiar with the area where the book is set and was actually working nearby some of the time during which the story takes place. There is a recent movie version of the story available on Prime or Netflix. The movie tells the tragic story well, and Emilia Clarke is fantastic in her role, as the tragic and doomed Susan Smith. The book's layers of detail really flesh out the story and create a lot of depth for the stories of all involved in the events. Just a sad and tragic story all the way around, but it is a fascinating read or listen.
Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-Give Me My 4th Term You Peons at April 16, 2023 09:33 AM (/Hc9U)

Comment: It's always interesting to read a story where you have some familiarity with the details, especially for a true crime story. A buddy of mine used to live in Wichita, KS. I went to visit him one summer and he was telling me that the BTK Strangler had been active in his neighborhood and had even disposed of a body in a nearby pond next to his apartment complex.

+++++

This week I read Proof of Heaven by Eben Alexander III. (BTW it has a subtitle that accurately describes the contents: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife.) Alexander gives you enough of a memoir to put the critical events of the book into context. He is a very accomplished neurosurgeon who, in 2008, suffered a sudden and catastrophic illness. At first his medical team could not diagnose the illness and when they did it seemed that he would almost certainly die and if he didn't he would be left in a vegetative state.
While his Alexander's condition was being treated (ineffectively) he was in a coma for 7 days. During this time he went to Heaven. (Yes, this is a non-fiction book.) He describes his experiences there but, as he often tells the reader, they weren't really describable by words. After seven days Alexander suddenly wakened from his coma. Although it took some time, he fully recovered from the disease. So basically two miracles.
I found the book intensely moving and illuminating. Its message is very uplifting for Christians and, I would think for everyone else.
I would be very interested to hear the reactions of other morons who have read this book.
Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at April 16, 2023 09:49 AM (fTtFy)

Comment: I've always been a bit fascinated by stories of Near-Death Experiences, though I have not really read much on the subject. I'm convinced there is something after death waiting for us. The universe as we know it is simply too strange for there not to be. Although we like to hear about stories where the NDE involved an encounter with Heavenly beings, there are also NDEs where the person encountered Hell instead. Those are downright terrifying. In last week's thread, I speculated that perhaps we are permitted only a glimpse of the Divine through an NDE because to experience the true reality of it before we are ready (i.e., fully dead) would drive us mad.

+++++

Also, I read that book about inflation during the French Revolution period, what is its title, Fiat Money Inflation In France, it's on another device back at the hotel.
THAT is one of the most disturbing books I have ever read, period. As in, it left me seriously disturbed, kind of upset and nervous. It raises multiple very important questions about US money policy at this present time, and how on Earth any of these 'geniuses' could do something that's been done many, MANY, times in the past with the exact same results.
Frightening book.
Posted by: LenNeal at April 16, 2023 11:09 AM (Z94Ov)

Comment: There's been a fair amount of discussion on the blog lately about various moves away from the dollar as the world's reserve currency in the near future. This is expected to be a financial disaster for the United States as dollars flood back into the U.S. and drive inflation to unimaginable levels. Any scenario sounds like it will be unpleasant, especially in the short term. Buckle up, folks. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. I'm not even sure how an average person like myself can be prepared for that scenario. I have little wealth to speak of, just some savings and some retirement investments. I'm about as middle class as it's possible to be these days (really lower middle-class if I'm being honest).

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (742 Moron-recommended books so far!)

+-----+-----+-----+-----+

WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

Forgotten Realms - Homecoming Book 2 - Maestro by R.A. Salvatore -- Catti-Brie launches an ambitious campaign to rebuild the Hosttower of the Arcane while Drizzt Do'Urden braves the terrors of the Underdark to return to a place even more terrifying: Menzoberranzan, the dark elf city in which he was born. Also features an EPIC smackdown at the end...Maybe the most epic Ludicrous Gibs for a one-on-one combat in all of fantasy literature.

Forgotten Realms - Homecoming Book 3 - Hero by R.A. Salvatore -- The conclusion of the Homecoming saga. Drizzt Do'Urden experiences a psychotic break with reality and it's up to his former mortal enemies to bring him out of it.

Saga of the Forgotten Warrior Book 1 - Son of the Black Sword by Larry Correia -- I've enjoyed Correia's Monster Hunter series quite a bit and this one was also recommended, though it's quite a bit different. It's largely inspired by Indian culture, so there is a lot of talk about caste and proper etiquette.

Saga of the Forgotten Warrior Book 2 - House of Assassins by Larry Correia -- Disgraced Protector Ashok begins his campaign of rebellion, war, and destruction as he searches for the captured prophet of a god he doesn't believe in.

That's about all I have for this week. Thank you for all of your kind words regarding the Sunday Morning Book Thread. This is a very special place. You are very special people (in all the best ways!). The kindness, generosity, and wisdom of the Moron Horde knows no bounds. Let's keep reading!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, reading recommendations, or discussion topics that you'd like to see on the Sunday Morning Book Thread, you can send them to perfessor dot squirrel at-sign gmail dot com. Your feedback is always appreciated! You can also take a virtual tour of OUR library at libib.com/u/perfessorsquirrel. Since I added sections for AoSHQ, I now consider it OUR library, rather than my own personal fiefdom...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 04-16-23 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

(Huggy Squirrel recommends only the very BEST in epic fantasy!)

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning, my pretty bookish Hordelings!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 08:59 AM (Dc2NZ)

2 Those pants don't look bad, in fact, they look grape!

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:00 AM (Angsy)

3 I'm about as middle class as it's possible to be these days (really lower middle-class if I'm being honest).
---

I prefer "shabby genteel".

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:00 AM (Dc2NZ)

4 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 09:01 AM (7EjX1)

5 For me at least, an ARS would remove the random discovery and excitement of the chase when looking for a volume to read. I love to roam around the stacks.

Posted by: Tonypete at April 23, 2023 09:02 AM (qoGsy)

6 Tolle Lege
Going to have bone to pick with Cobs, starting early is becoming a habit around here and it will upset the time/space continuum

Anyway getting into, if could find more reading time, David Walder's biography of Admiral Nelson

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 09:03 AM (xhxe8)

7 I think they used that ARS system to store waitress clones in "Cloud Atlas".

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at April 23, 2023 09:04 AM (PiwSw)

8 I read In His Image by James Beauseigneur. This is the first book in The Christ Clone Trilogy which was recommended here some time ago. At first I thought that a trilogy based on the cloning of Christ was a little far-fetched, but I'm happy I took a chance and soon was engrossed in a story of the world rapidly heading to the end times.

Posted by: Zoltan at April 23, 2023 09:05 AM (sDFJU)

9 That Automated Retrieval System seems like a great place to stage a murder (if Callahan or analog would ever find himself chasing a well-read psycho into a library).

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:06 AM (Dc2NZ)

10 Will of iron? More like tofu. I hit the library book sale and got a quad of SF paperbacks:

An ABC of Science Fiction: Twenty-Six Excursions into the Fantastic From Aldiss to Zelazny
Pavane by Keith Roberts
Space Visitor by Mack Reynolds
Planet of No Return by Harry Harrison

Saw, but did not purchase, a Star Trek manga, a thing I never knew existed. But there it was. Kirk with that "shitting a watermelon" manga expression.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:07 AM (Dc2NZ)

11 Actually, Perfessor, I think that ARS system is perfectly suited to today's college student. They know what they are told to read, they can get it delivered to them, keeping them from wandering the stacks, and possibly finding something very upsetting to their world view. It will keep them from seeing bad things....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:07 AM (Angsy)

12 Continuing to read Nial Fergusson's Empire. Really enjoying it, but more than a little disturbed by all the reflections of our times I am noticing.
More so because the people then seemed to have a far firmer grasp of history and current events than the people of our times do, and still managed to fuck up royally.

Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 09:07 AM (4780s)

13 No reading this week.

Posted by: rhennigantx at April 23, 2023 09:10 AM (BRHaw)

14 Perfessor, you can drive that ruggedized bookmobile through the barren wastelands of the End Times. You will be a light in the darkness.

"Do you, perchance, have 'How Things Work'?"
"Of course!"
"And...'Slave Bimbos of Gor'?"
"Naturellement!"

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:10 AM (Dc2NZ)

15 In the previous thread was a discussion about gout, which I suffer from. I have not been bothered in years because I watch my diet. If I have red meat two or three days in a row I know I must eat chicken or fish and take a break. I try to drink Red Tart Cherry Juice 2 or 3 times a week. I take a supplement from the vitamin store called , Quercetin drop uric acid. The combination of Cherry juice and Quercetin have kept me from having a flare up for years now. I just thought I would pass this on.

Posted by: StewBurner at April 23, 2023 09:11 AM (Guh8+)

16 The charm of a library is browsing among the shelves. No robot can do that for me.

Also, this means some books may never get seen and therefore enjoyed.

I protest.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:11 AM (Emce2)

17 Yay book thread!

Regarding the fantasy epic thing, I am firmly in the "I'll wait until it is done" camp. I've not yet written a fantasy epic (and may never do so), but I made a point of at least finishing the rough draft of the complete Man of Destiny series before any of the books was released.

Indeed, you can go to my site (link in nic) and follow the path of drafts, editing, and publication to see how it went down.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:12 AM (llXky)

18
g'mornin', book-ish 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at April 23, 2023 09:13 AM (ENBF0)

19 Actually, Perfessor, I think that ARS system is perfectly suited to today's college student. They know what they are told to read, they can get it delivered to them, keeping them from wandering the stacks, and possibly finding something very upsetting to their world view. It will keep them from seeing bad things....
Posted by: OrangeEnt

Bingo! If some entity really wanted to make something disappear, and I mean really disappear within the millions of square feet warehouses of the Navy, you'd would misfile or mis-categorize that item within the location system. It's there but effectively lost forever.

ARS systems are perfectly suited for commodity retrieval though. Books? Nah.

Posted by: Tonypete at April 23, 2023 09:14 AM (qoGsy)

20 When it comes to waiting for a series to finish, the Myth-Adventures series by Robert Asprin took its sweet time. RA hit a terrible writer's block just as the stories seemed to churn right out. It took him years to get restarted. I have all 12 books, but I've hit reader's block, never having really gone through the last three. (Aaagh, more for the backlog list!)

And in comics, Warren Ellis must be the champion of delay. Planetary, which began as a monthly, quickly fell behind schedule and took years between issues near the end. And Ministry of Space, a three-issue mini, took years, too. (Although part of that delay may lie with the artist.)

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:14 AM (uIu2G)

21 > Ned is an adulterer

Without going into spoilerish details, that is apparently...not the case.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:15 AM (bW8dp)

22 Did you ever hear your grandparents mention the Columbus Day riot of 1944? It started when thousands of bobby-soxers tried to get into New York's Paramount Theater to see the hot new singer, "Frankie." (Do I have to say Sinatra?) Too many fans, not enough seats -- Boom. Windows broken in Times Square.

That's just one incident retold in "Helluva Town: The Story of New York City During World War Ii" by Richard Goldstein. This was Book No. 2 on my backlog.

Drawing on research and interviews, Goldstein tells what happened in the city from Pearl Harbor to V-J Day and afterward. The military influx, Mayor La Guardia, the inferno aboard the Normandie, the Stage Door Canteen, the Harlem race riot, "On the Town," the German-American Bund, Weegee -- all this and more are included.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I only now finished this; when I first posted about it, OM mentioned it in the subsequent Book Thread. Yes, it's been a while.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:15 AM (uIu2G)

23 Yesterday I hit the wall and could go no further on C.S. Lewis' "space" trilogy. I like some of the guy's stuff, but the non-stop allegory was just too much.

Yes, That Hideous Strength actually reads like a real book, but every single character is clearly put there to make a point. "See, here is how a civil servant sees it." "This guy shows you how an ageing chemist sees it."

I get it, fine, just give me the moral lesson already. I don't hate all allegory - Orwell did it well, but Orwell also kept it short and to the point.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:16 AM (llXky)

24 Good Sunday morning, horde!

I don't think I need a series to be "finished." If a book doesn't stand on its own, what is it worth? Does every thread need to be tied?

That said, I read the first of Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicle series, and enjoyed it enough to read the second. There , I encountered the (seemingly) pages of fairy porn, which was boring and eye-rolling enough for me to not even want the third book.

But then he wrote The Slow Regard of Silent Things, which drew me in and I loved it--critics say it is boring, and I can see that, but I loved the character Auri, and I thought this was a beautiful story. Probably because I'm a chick, but I'm ok with that.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 09:16 AM (OX9vb)

25 OrangeEnt has described my disapproval with the automated book retrieval system.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:16 AM (Emce2)

26 > And...'Slave Bimbos of Gor'?"

I believe there was an incident many years ago where Gor author "John Norman" signed up to present at a feminist science fiction convention, apparently just as a troll.

I'm probably misremembering the details there.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:16 AM (bW8dp)

27 Automatic Retrieval System?

Posted by: Dog at April 23, 2023 09:17 AM (SYTee)

28 I also read The Final Day by William R. Forstchen. This is the third book in The One Second After series. It continues the story of the small town of Black Mountain, NC, after an EMP attack. It's discovered that some governmental officials knew of the attack ahead of time and moved themselves and their families to a safe location in a hollowed out mountain near Gettysburg, PA, while giving no warning to the rest of the country. The forces from Black Mountain join with others to rectify the situation.

Posted by: Zoltan at April 23, 2023 09:17 AM (sDFJU)

29 2 Those pants don't look bad, in fact, they look grape!
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:00 AM (Angsy)

Bravo!

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 09:17 AM (OX9vb)

30 The library in the photo looks like a safety-deposit box vault, or, a well-stocked comics shop.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:18 AM (uIu2G)

31 If some entity really wanted to make something disappear, and I mean really disappear within the millions of square feet warehouses of the Navy, you'd would misfile or mis-categorize that item within the location system. It's there but effectively lost forever.

Do you think such a system, perhaps one in a more primitive state, could be repurposed for objects other than books?

Posted by: Top Men at April 23, 2023 09:18 AM (eOEVl)

32 Also, this means some books may never get seen and therefore enjoyed.

I protest.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:11 AM (Emce2)
---
When I roamed the stacks at Michigan State, I wasn't looking for a particular book, but where books on a given topic were kept. Once I found that spot, I could browse contentedly.

Only rarely did I want a specific book.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:19 AM (llXky)

33 I am listening to Tolkien and the Great War by John Garth. It's read by the author. It's interesting, but a bit odd. He spends a lot of time on Tolkien developing the languages that he would use when creating his world. Then he ventures off into what Tolkien was dealing with during the war. I probably should have read a regular biography first and would have a better point of reference for this.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at April 23, 2023 09:19 AM (u7leW)

34 I am listening to Tolkien and the Great War by John Garth. It's read by the author. It's interesting, but a bit odd. He spends a lot of time on Tolkien developing the languages that he would use when creating his world. Then he ventures off into what Tolkien was dealing with during the war. I probably should have read a regular biography first and would have a better point of reference for this.

You would probably like the bio movie "Tolkien", with Nicholas Hoult.

Posted by: Top Men at April 23, 2023 09:20 AM (eOEVl)

35 Jan Morris also wrote a good love letter to New York at the end of WWII: Manhattan '45. It's basically a snapshot of the city during the brief moment after the war but before what we would recognize as the "post-war" years. Kind of an indrawing of breath.

I'm not even particularly fond of New York and I found it a very good book. Some details even made me tear up a little -- not for themselves but for the lost world they evoke. Anyway, recommended.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 09:21 AM (QZxDR)

36 Well, at least they weren't assless chaps. Those things chap my ass, so to speak.

I'm finishing up my second novel in the SF genre, and funny thing, I had to research fashion shows as it was a plot point for the Main Character who was following a suspected enemy spy posing as a fashion designer. The trick is, The first five or six items on the runway are the attention getters, just to wake up the fashionistas who are nursing their hangovers with cups of Starbucks. The real stuff comes next, if it even makes it on to the runway at all. Nobody actually buys that junk.

Posted by: Put that kid back where it came from or so help me at April 23, 2023 09:21 AM (HPNqc)

37 Meant to say seemingly 400 pages of fairy porn, but didn't notice numbers lock was off. Heh.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 09:22 AM (OX9vb)

38 Thanks so much for posting my review of "Proof of Heaven," Perfesser.

In possible defense of using an ARS in a library, for 25 years I worked very closely with a library and librarians. The push for many years has been to divest of print materials because (1) they take up too much space and (2) younger patrons don't use them. If the ARS would allow for preservation and retrieval of printed materials, that would certainly be preferable to destroying them.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at April 23, 2023 09:22 AM (fTtFy)

39 > You would probably like the bio movie "Tolkien", with Nicholas Hoult.

I enjoyed this quite a bit. Caution: don't go into it expecting a big action movie -- it's a biopic about an Oxford don.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:23 AM (bW8dp)

40 I bought Teddy Roosevelt's "The Ranch Life and Hunt Trail " for my kindle. It's about his time as young man in the Dakota territory. I'm curious to see how it stands up to Joe Biden's alleged life story.

Posted by: Cosda at April 23, 2023 09:23 AM (sZqVy)

41 Yes, That Hideous Strength actually reads like a real book, but every single character is clearly put there to make a point.

I get it, fine, just give me the moral lesson already. I don't hate all allegory - Orwell did it well, but Orwell also kept it short and to the point.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:16 AM (llXky)

I had the most trouble getting through Perelandra. There were so few people that it felt kind of lonely.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:23 AM (Emce2)

42 In possible defense of using an ARS in a library, for 25 years I worked very closely with a library and librarians. The push for many years has been to divest of print materials because (1) they take up too much space and (2) younger patrons don't use them. If the ARS would allow for preservation and retrieval of printed materials, that would certainly be preferable to destroying them.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at April 23, 2023 09:22 AM (fTtFy)
---
Even in the 90s there were situations where books that didn't get much use were removed to "remote storage" and you had to request them. It took about a week for them to arrive at circulation, so it's been going on for a while.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)

43 Took 2 sittings to see al most of Tolkien, saw end then most of movie. Liked it

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 09:24 AM (xhxe8)

44 I am so happy!

I found a Terry Pratchett Discworld book I hadn't read yet.

See ya later.

Posted by: pawn at April 23, 2023 09:25 AM (wsHtO)

45 Regarding today's pants, that outfit looks like something you would wear if you were expecting to fall out of a helicopter.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:26 AM (Emce2)

46 To answer Skip and publius on the Tech thread, they were 10" sliding compound miter saws. Identical packaging.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 23, 2023 09:27 AM (/xaUq)

47 The library in the photo looks like a safety-deposit box vault, or, a well-stocked comics shop.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:18 AM (uIu2G)

I thought it was a card file at first. Yeah, old....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:27 AM (Angsy)

48 Morning, 'rons and 'ronettes.

Haven't been doing much reading. Whenever I'm driving, I'm slowly making my way through the audio version of David McCulloch's John Adams. I did read a new book called The Nail in the Skull and Other Victorian Urban Legends, but the title is really the only interesting thing about it. The book is really more of a scholarly dissertation than a popular history book. Can't really recommend it.

Finally finished chapter 4 of my new Theda Bara novel, but since I've been putting off typing the whole thing up, I've now got about 50-off longhand pages to transcribe, and the thought of that effort paralyzes me.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:27 AM (AW0uW)

49 > these pants...

Bowie wore it better.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:28 AM (bW8dp)

50 I hardly ever go into the shelves at our library branches in quest of books. I do it all online. Search for author.

CDs, however, I select at random.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:28 AM (uIu2G)

51 > You would probably like the bio movie "Tolkien", with Nicholas Hoult.

I enjoyed this quite a bit. Caution: don't go into it expecting a big action movie -- it's a biopic about an Oxford don.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:23 AM (bW8dp)
---
I recall hearing about a Tolkien biopic that came out that covered his life but completely left out his religious views. Not sure if this was that film.

Fans picked on it not just because it was very important to Tolkien but also because being a Catholic in England at that time (particularly in academic circles) was a significant social liability.

Yes, C.S. Lewis wore his faith on his sleeve, but he was also a High Church Anglican, not a filthy papist.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:28 AM (llXky)

52 On Crossings, I started re-reading it this week from front to back. It is also a good book this way, but I think I liked the other way better--just because the story jumps from era to era, and character to character, and back.

This is not an unusual device. Lots of authors write books this way, and I don't see any reason why Alex Landragin didn't just write it that way from the beginning, without the gimmick.

I do recommend the book, though.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 09:30 AM (OX9vb)

53 I had the most trouble getting through Perelandra. There were so few people that it felt kind of lonely.

Posted by: Emmie at April 23, 2023 09:23 AM (Emce2)
---
There are books where I decide to gut it out and see where it goes. Nostromo was one of those. I felt the setup was taking forever, but I really wanted to see where it went. Having finished it (and understanding what it was), I think I would enjoy re-reading it a lot more.

None of these books brought me much reading pleasure. Feels like I'm trying to do a book report. No thanks.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:31 AM (llXky)

54 I bought a couple of books this week.

To Save an Army by Robert Forsyth. It is about the failure to resupply the trapped German 6th Army surrounded at Stalingrad by air. It begins with the successful air supply a year earlier of the pocket at Demyansk. The Germans learned the wrong lesson. They learned that such air supply was feasible when, in fact, it was barely successful at the far smaller scale at Demyansk at a huge cost and impossible at Stalingrad.

A Survival Guide: Living With Dinosaurs In the Jurrasic Period by Dougal Dixon. Not a novel but rather a quasi scientific discussion of how a human could survive during that era. What flora and fauna were available for nourishment and which were dangerous and how to avoid them.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 09:31 AM (FVME7)

55 Even in the 90s there were situations where books that didn't get much use were removed to "remote storage" and you had to request them. It took about a week for them to arrive at circulation, so it's been going on for a while.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 09:24 AM (llXky)

That's the first step in disappearing "pesky" books.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:32 AM (Angsy)

56 Jan Morris also wrote a good love letter to New York at the end of WWII: Manhattan '45. It's basically a snapshot of the city during the brief moment after the war but before what we would recognize as the "post-war" years. Kind of an indrawing of breath.

Just bought it. Thank you!

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:32 AM (AW0uW)

57 If The Illuminatus! Trilogy is conspiracy on acid and shrooms, then A Conspiracy of Tall Men is conspiracy on military-grade caffeine pills and truck stop coffee.

Thanks to whoever referenced this in the Book Thread.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (Dc2NZ)

58 Yesterday, KT, on her thread before the gardening thread, had a wonderful entry about Kipling's "The Gods of the Copybook Headings". She also brought up CS Lewis and his writing about the value of old books. It's worth going back to read the post but don't comment.

In very short order I was going down various rabbit holes. I started with Kipling then to Lewis' "On the Reading of Old Books" which is part of his introduction to an edition of St. Athanasius' "On the Incarnation". That led to other Lewis writings such as his intro to Paradise Lost and English Literature in the 16th Century, his various essays about writing, and The Screwtape Letters.

Following even more devious paths led to Alexander Pope's translations of Homer and Peter Green's recent version of The Odyssey. There were other paths that became apparent, to the the point where I started a list of reading for the near future. (As opposed to the ever growing pile of TBR.

to be continued ...

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (7EjX1)

59 Jim Butcher's next Cinder Spires book, The Olympian Affair, will be out this fall, November 7. It is currently available for pre order. He is working on the next Dresden Files.

Posted by: Terentiaj at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (9Nlqa)

60 Yesterday I was surprised to see the most thoughtful and awesome wife ever had secretly ordered A Distant Mirror by B. Tuchman for me for my Birthday. I asked her to look it up and find out how much it is before I went on a hunt through the used bookstores around here. She just ordered it. Told me it's stupid the way I look for things and I probably would never find it that way.
I like my book hunts and I find a lot of other stuff on them. Shopping for books is half the fun but finding a $15 Clarinet worth $700. Or a rare Gibson Falcon Tube amp for $5 is the shit.

Anyway I'm only into it a couple dozen pages so no opinion yet. I did surf the wiki pages for the author and fear she have been a hard core Lib but I'll give it a chance.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 09:35 AM (Xcc6o)

61 I'm just finishing up an old book, _The Starship and the Canoe_, by Kenneth Brower. I remember reading it (maybe at the school library?) back in the early 1980s when it came out, and when I came across a copy at a used bookstore I grabbed it.

It's kind of a dual biography of Freeman Dyson and his son George Dyson. Freeman probably needs no introduction, but George is his semi-hippie son who became obsessed with boatbuilding in the Pacific Northwest, and created innovative seagoing kayaks.

George and Freeman didn't get on well -- a stereotypical Greatest Gen vs. Boomer relationship, complicated by the fact that both are a bit Aspie and Freeman is quite possibly the most intelligent living human.

About a third of the book covers Freeman's work on Project Orion, and 2/3 is about George's boat building, and a canoe trip he and the author took through the waters between Alaska and Seattle. George (and the reader) got a little annoyed with the author along the way.

Anyway, it's a good book if you like Freeman Dyson, or boats, or a look at the time when Boomers were starting to realize they had to grow up.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 09:35 AM (QZxDR)

62 (from picture)
Dave - "Hal, retrieve me Robert Spencer's History of Islam"
Hal - " No Dave, that is no longer allowed, it is restricted reading"

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 09:36 AM (xhxe8)

63 Epic fantasy books are LARPing for those who can't bother to play dress up and go out to the park on a sunny Saturday and play sword fighting with their fellow LARPers. YMMV

Posted by: Muldoon at April 23, 2023 09:37 AM (H4ZB9)

64 Jim Butcher's next Cinder Spires book, The Olympian Affair, will be out this fall, November 7. It is currently available for pre order. He is working on the next Dresden Files.
Posted by: Terentiaj at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (9Nlqa)
---
Excellent. Good to know! I didn't see it on Amazon yet, but I'll check back later...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 09:37 AM (BpYfr)

65 Speaking of fiat money, I once read "This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly" by Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff. Yup. Governments inflate the currency. Socialists tax the middle-class up the wazoo and waste the money on stupid things.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 09:37 AM (5u1+1)

66 9 That Automated Retrieval System seems like a great place to stage a murder
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:06 AM (Dc2NZ)

Oh, that would be good.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 09:38 AM (OX9vb)

67 Anyway, it's a good book if you like Freeman Dyson, or boats, or a look at the time when Boomers were starting to realize they had to grow up.

Wut?

Posted by: A Boomer at April 23, 2023 09:38 AM (eOEVl)

68 So, I asked myself "What is the intrinsic value of gold and silver?"

Not much. But it may have more value than the ones and zeroes.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 09:39 AM (5u1+1)

69 That Automated Retrieval System seems like a great place to stage a murder
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 09:06 AM (Dc2NZ)

Oh, that would be good.

Murder on the ARS Express?

Posted by: Archimedes at April 23, 2023 09:39 AM (eOEVl)

70 I found the book intensely moving and illuminating. Its message is very uplifting for Christians and, I would think for everyone else.

I would be very interested to hear the reactions of other morons who have read this book.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at April 16, 2023 09:49 AM (fTtFy)

I haven't read the book, and will probably not. But, I have watched a few of those NDE vids on YT. Positing a Christian afterlife view being the correct one, I've seen vids where non-Christians had "good" NDEs. But if we posit unbelievers don't get a "good" afterlife, it makes me think those who experience them are not experiencing "death," or the true afterlife, but a hallucination based on how they perceived themselves. Possibly caused by lack of oxygen or by nervous systems shutting down. Because, no one who really dies, comes back and tells us what's next.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:39 AM (Angsy)

71 The SUN'S OUT !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:40 AM (T4tVD)

72 Hiya

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:40 AM (T4tVD)

73 Actually, Perfessor, I think that ARS system is perfectly suited to today's college student. They know what they are told to read, they can get it delivered to them, keeping them from wandering the stacks, and possibly finding something very upsetting to their world view. It will keep them from seeing bad things....
Posted by: OrangeEnt

Bingo! If some entity really wanted to make something disappear, and I mean really disappear within the millions of square feet warehouses of the Navy, you'd would misfile or mis-categorize that item within the location system. It's there but effectively lost forever.

ARS systems are perfectly suited for commodity retrieval though. Books? Nah.

Actually, the idea of an ARS library should be the premise of at least one best-seller, I would think.

Posted by: mrp at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (rj6Yv)

74 Chilly and heavy rain here. A good day to stay by the fire and read.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (QZxDR)

75 I'm about as middle class as it's possible to be these days (really lower middle-class if I'm being honest).
---

I prefer "shabby genteel".
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread)

You'll ALWAYS be High Class to me !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (T4tVD)

76 The SUN'S OUT !

Lucky you. It's pouring rain here.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (AW0uW)

77 That ARS image reminds me of the opening sequence of every episode of _The Prisoner_, when his dossier is dropped into the ex-agents file by an automated system.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 09:43 AM (QZxDR)

78 Epic fantasy books are LARPing for those who can't bother to play dress up and go out to the park on a sunny Saturday and play sword fighting with their fellow LARPers. YMMV
Posted by: Muldoon at April 23, 2023 09:37 AM (H4ZB9)

Dress up? I was only there to hit people with sticks.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (Xcc6o)

79 # 44 -which Pratchett novel?

That's how I feel when I occasionally find a Librivox Anthony Trollope novel audiobook I haven't already heard (to accompany daily physical therapy exercise).

Or a Chirp discount Pratchett. Monstrous Regiment was recently on sale.

Posted by: dilys at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (Vw47p)

80 Finally finished chapter 4 of my new Theda Bara novel, but since I've been putting off typing the whole thing up, I've now got about 50-off longhand pages to transcribe, and the thought of that effort paralyzes me.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:27 AM (AW0uW)

Gah! You work longhand? I use the computer. Any other author here use pad and pencil?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (Angsy)

81 59 Jim Butcher's next Cinder Spires book, The Olympian Affair, will be out this fall, November 7. It is currently available for pre order. He is working on the next Dresden Files.
Posted by: Terentiaj at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (9Nlqa)

Hell, that only took... when the heck did the first one come out? 5? 7? 10? years ago?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (/xaUq)

82 Want to know how irrelevant Mike Glyer really is? Check the name of his web site, _File 770_. It used to be a print fanzine before he went online. What does that mean, File 770?

It refers to a hotel room, Room 770 of the St. Charles Hotel in New Orleans, where Glyer and some pals had a room party at a science fiction convention and some writers showed up.

The St. Charles Hotel was torn down in 1974. That's how relevant Mike Glyer is.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 09:46 AM (QZxDR)

83 "Helluva Town: The Story of New York City During World War II"

-
I see there is a new book out by Julia Boyd, the author of Travellers In the Third Reich, entitled A Village In the Third Reich. It's about the southern most village in Germany, Olberstdorf, and how Nazism affected the residents of this Alpine village. My belief is that we are now living in a Third Reich-like country and headed for disaster. This book is on my mental list so I can catch a glimpse of our future.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 09:46 AM (FVME7)

84 R. Scott Bakker, The Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor were my personal white whales of epic fantasy series. Fairly dense reading when they did come out.

Posted by: Stacy0311 at April 23, 2023 09:46 AM (ixC6O)

85 Another of the pleasures of epic fantasy is if you find others reading the same series. I remember reading WoT and having many lively discussions about the various stories. Great times, indeed.

OTOH, a potential pitfall for epic fantasy is the possibility that the ending will be a bit of a let down. Which is how I felt after finishing WoT. Still, I did appreciate the effort Jordan made to get the series finished.

Posted by: yara at April 23, 2023 09:47 AM (QdFtX)

86 Larry Correia writes wonderful rants. I'd happily read his rant about mattress tags, if he wrote one

A bit of industry insider knowledge about the epic fantasy problem. Correia is writing from the perspective of traditional publishing, and currently if a writer doesn't bring in baskets of cash on the first book they are DONE. The publishers don't have any patience. Mostly owned by corporations that regard that side of the business as selling extruded book-shaped objects. So yes, if you wait for the final book in a series with *them* you may never see it, because trad-pub dumped that author years ago.

Indie writers (such as yours truly, and many fine Moron authors) don't have that problem, at least not so bad. I DID finish my initial trilogy without earning a cent first. I do agree that spiteful one star reviews are counterproductive, and I believe Amazon lets you go back and revise a review later--so why not give a full, honest review of the book you actually read?

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at April 23, 2023 09:48 AM (P+D9B)

87 The SUN'S OUT !

Lucky you. It's pouring rain here.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing

Yesterday I thought I was gonna hafta build an Ark !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:48 AM (T4tVD)

88 The retrieval system is the murder but it's programed to kill only when a particular book is asked for, and the programmer knows the person who is going to ask for the book

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 09:49 AM (xhxe8)

89 If you were intrigued with Dickson-White's Fiat Money Inflation in France, you might be interested to read about modern world problems with government money,

What Has Government Done to Our Money? By Murray Rothbard

"Rothbard shows precisely how banks create money out of thin air and how the central bank, backed by government power, allows them to get away with it. He shows how exchange rates and interest rates would work in a true free market. When it comes to describing the end of the gold standard, he is not content to describe the big trends. He names names and ferrets out all the interest groups involved."

Rothbard has detractors, but not about his ability to research and present information. This work can be found at the Mises Foundation website, in HTML. PDF. ePub, and audoibook formats for free.

https://mises.org/library/what-has-government-done-our-money

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 09:49 AM (xhaym)

90 This week I finished Germinal by Zola. A masterpiece. The descriptions of the lives of the miners is harrowing but the management are portrayed as complete evil. IMO the book only flaw is it's paean to socialism at the end although even that is forgivable since it was written at a time when it was all theory and no practice to judge it.

Started "In the First Circle" by Solzhennitsyn and that is starting out great as well.

Posted by: who knew at April 23, 2023 09:51 AM (4I7VG)

91 continued from 58 ...
KT's thread was about, in part, the value of reading older books to provide a perspective and as antidote to the constant shifting and distractions of 'the new' which often open a door to arrogance, closed minds, and evil. This fits in so well with my reading habits for the last ten or fifteen years. Being able to understand and appreciate the work of earlier generations, whether 50 years or 3,000 years, may not have made me wise (that would have been nice) but has provided perspective that armors me, to a point, against the tyranny of unimportant distractions. I really believe that has improved my quality of life.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 09:52 AM (7EjX1)

92 "Bingo! If some entity really wanted to make something disappear, and I mean really disappear within the millions of square feet warehouses of the Navy, you'd would misfile or mis-categorize that item within the location system. It's there but effectively lost forever."

What would you file it under?

Posted by: davidt at April 23, 2023 09:52 AM (SYTee)

93 Posted by: Sabrina Chase at April 23, 2023 09:48 AM (P+D9B)
---
Thanks for the insider perspective. I suspected as much. I figure an author needs to demonstrate that they have written most of the trilogy--or at least have a very solid outline with a first novel mostly complete--before they can get picked up by a traditional publisher. Publishing is expensive and publishers don't want to take huge risks on unknowns.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 09:52 AM (BpYfr)

94 Murder on the ARS Express?

Posted by: Archimedes at April 23, 2023 09:39 AM (eOEVl)

Ooooh! I love a train story.

Wait, I thought you wrote Murder on the ARSe Express. Well, that derailed my enthusiasm.

Posted by: Pete Buttgiger at April 23, 2023 09:53 AM (Angsy)

95 You'll ALWAYS be High Class to me !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (T4tVD)

That was just a lie!

Posted by: Hound Dog at April 23, 2023 09:55 AM (Angsy)

96 Where I live is very close to a temperate rain forest, about an hour away, and is very close to being one itself. But in the sunny South, not grim Pac NW.

So except in the dead of winter, the rain is very pleasant. More often than not, it's a gentle, sun-flecked, ladylike rain accompanied by an orchestra of birdsong.

It's like how I imagine heaven.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 09:55 AM (oINRc)

97 LARPing is very fashionable in academic circles. SCA gas has many university based chapters around the world. It was never for me, but seeing a medieval battle by the Red Cedar stayed with me. Larpers are like bees, they're everywhere

Posted by: CN at April 23, 2023 09:56 AM (Zzbjj)

98 I'm about as middle class as it's possible to be these days (really lower middle-class if I'm being honest).
---

I prefer "shabby genteel".
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread)

You'll ALWAYS be High Class to me !
Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 09:41 AM (T4tVD)/i]

Having twice had the pleasure of meeting Eris, I can assure everyone that she is exceedingly genteel and not at all shabby.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:56 AM (AW0uW)

99 " 'Under consideration' means we've lost the file. 'Under active consideration' means we're trying to find it!"

-- "Yes, Minister"

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:56 AM (uIu2G)

100 Part of my reading this week was a couple of the "MASH Goes to XXX" books. These are among my guiltiest reading pleasures. They are completely silly but amusing. Sort of Three Stooges silly combined with the pace of the Keystone Kops.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 09:57 AM (7EjX1)

101 Probably, the rage about unfinished series is mostly due to the Anger Accelerant that was GoT on HBO.

The series pulled in a lot of new reader for GRRM only to literally have him play "keep away" for years,

something that GRRM as a 3 ft 10inch waddling tub of lard has to be very familiar with.

Remember how all progtard politics seems to be revenge for not being popular in high school once they have power over you?

Yeah, that.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 09:57 AM (RJQ8g)

102
What would you file it under?
Posted by: davidt

The most common dodge was to transpose a few sku/part numbers. In the old days, the systems didn't have reasonability checks or hash digits.

Posted by: Tonypete at April 23, 2023 09:57 AM (qoGsy)

103 Thank you Perfessor, as always, for another informative and entertaining Book Thread. I appreciate that you use your smarts, time, and effort to bring us all together each Sunday morning for a Moron Reading Circle!

Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-Buffest Mayor In America at April 23, 2023 09:57 AM (/hIpD)

104 Gah! You work longhand? I use the computer. Any other author here use pad and pencil?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (Angsy)

Not an Author of anything worth reading yet but I do dockets and scribble notes and ideas. Currently 4 of them full and collecting dust. Funny thing is this habit of using them was the clincher on getting this well beyond my education level job I have now. During my interview my boss saw it in my jeep and asked what I did with it. I told him I note everything in some way as I have learned not to trust my memory or anyone elses for that matter.
First day on the job he hands me a new one and says continue to do that please. Now I keep a work one and a personal one. It has saved my ass more that once.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 09:58 AM (kPu32)

105 91. I'm not sure where I read it, but it's said that CA has purged classics from HS reading lists. All modern wokey shit

Posted by: CN at April 23, 2023 09:58 AM (Zzbjj)

106 Morning.

I read the Osten Ard series. I thought it kinda meh. But really the only reason I picked it up in the first place was because I had read the main female character turned into a giant ho bag halfway through. I was like, yeah, I'm down with giant ho bags.

Spoiler alert! She turns into a moderate ho bag.

Posted by: Robert at April 23, 2023 09:58 AM (TWLRj)

107 I see there is a new book out by Julia Boyd, the author of Travellers In the Third Reich, entitled A Village In the Third Reich.

I liked Travellers. I'll have to get the new one.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 09:59 AM (AW0uW)

108 In my long distant past I read some Conan books and found some by Lin Carter. I ended up not being that impressed by his writing, but did find a book he'd written about writing fantasy which did impress me. Though I couldn't find it now on The Great Brazilian River,

Posted by: yara at April 23, 2023 10:00 AM (QdFtX)

109 As for Rothfuss, I read those two books of his and I can't remember a single thing about them. The only thing I can recall is that it was like Harry Potter if Harry Potter was dirt poor and an asshole.

Posted by: Robert at April 23, 2023 10:00 AM (TWLRj)

110 Dave - "Hal, retrieve me Robert Spencer's History of Islam"
Hal - " No Dave, that is no longer allowed, it is restricted reading"

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 09:36 AM (xhxe

---
Of course this was prophesied in "Rollerball," where the gleaming computerized library only had certain books in it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:00 AM (llXky)

111 91. I'm not sure where I read it, but it's said that CA has purged classics from HS reading lists. All modern wokey shit
Posted by: CN at April 23, 2023 09:58 AM (Zzbjj)
---
This is the current trend in modern education. Purge the "canon" of classic Western literature and replace it with woke garbage.

This is the same thinking behind infiltrating school libraries with groomer shit.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:00 AM (BpYfr)

112 STOP I fat fingered it, the management is NOT portrayed as completely evil, they are conflicted people just like the rest of us.

Posted by: who knew at April 23, 2023 10:01 AM (4I7VG)

113 Being able to understand and appreciate the work of earlier generations, whether 50 years or 3,000 years, may not have made me wise (that would have been nice) but has provided perspective that armors me, to a point, against the tyranny of unimportant distractions. I really believe that has improved my quality of life.
Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 09:52 AM (7EjX1)
---

Pithy and cromulent!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:01 AM (Dc2NZ)

114 "Jim Butcher's next Cinder Spires book, The Olympian Affair, will be out this fall, November 7. It is currently available for pre order. He is working on the next Dresden Files.
Posted by: Terentiaj at April 23, 2023 09:33 AM (9Nlqa)

Hell, that only took... when the heck did the first one come out? 5? 7? 10? years ago?"

It's been so long I've completely forgotten the story of the first book. Will have to go back and reread if I decide to read the second book.

Posted by: Tuna at April 23, 2023 10:02 AM (gLRfa)

115 A Survival Guide: Living With Dinosaurs In the Jurrasic Period by Dougal Dixon. Not a novel but rather a quasi scientific discussion of how a human could survive during that era. What flora and fauna were available for nourishment and which were dangerous and how to avoid them.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 09:31 AM (FVME7)

Dougal Dixon wrote a series of books with the theme "After Man" reimaging the biosphere of earth after a sort of catastrophe similar tot he K-T impact and subsequent evolution
It is speculative biology, and only considers the fauna and not the flora. These are set up like the animal index books with a picture, name, family and description of the critter and habitat and attributes.
Originally Dixon had done the artwork but for some reason the publisher brought in other artists to do the finished work.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:04 AM (xhaym)

116 Speaking of fiat money, I once read "This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly" by Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff. Yup. Governments inflate the currency. Socialists tax the middle-class up the wazoo and waste the money on stupid things.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse

New bipartisan bill would let the U.S. Mint alter the metal content of coins to save money

https://bit.ly/41xU7xI

-
Yeah, debasing the currency always work. Well, at least it's a bipartisan bill.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 10:05 AM (FVME7)

117 Not an Author of anything worth reading yet but I do dockets and scribble notes and ideas. Currently 4 of them full and collecting dust.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 09:58 AM (kPu32)

Thanks. I can understand when out in the world doing other things to jot stuff down, but if you're actively writing it seems it would be easier to use the computer. Just save constantly to avoid loss.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (Angsy)

118 Anyway I'm only into it a couple dozen pages so no opinion yet. I did surf the wiki pages for the author and fear she have been a hard core Lib but I'll give it a chance.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 09:35 AM (Xcc6o)
---
The first few chapters are very good, but as the book progresses, the author cannot resist condescending to her subjects, marveling that they couldn't figure out how Equal Rights would have made everything better and also getting rid of the Catholic Church.

It makes the book feel very dated because those are very 70s "all differences between men and women are due to sexism" viewpoint. Er, no. In an age where land was ultimately controlled by violence, women couldn't really "own" it - you needed dudes with swords and stuff.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (llXky)

119 @100 --

JTB, I love those "M*A*S*H" books, although the last two were weak.

Still have them.

Started with the Las Vegas story. Took me a while to realize that they were set in contemporary times. But I was hooked.

Probably never would have seen them if it weren't for the hometown library, which had a shelf for free exchange. As a teenager, I was looking for sex and violence. Brought home only the violence (the Executioner).

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (uIu2G)

120 That 'these pants' photo looks like the girl is about to burst and give birth to thousands of baby spiders. Whether that says something about me or the POS who designed the clothes is another matter.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (7EjX1)

121 Epic fantasy books are LARPing for those who can't bother to play dress up and go out to the park on a sunny Saturday and play sword fighting with their fellow LARPers. YMMV
Posted by: Muldoon

Wow. That is a perfect description. Probably why I took to Dungeons and Dragons. I had a game piece, Clea the Cleric, I could identify with. Later I had a sneaky thief whose small stature got her into difficult to access spaces.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:08 AM (Y+l9t)

122 To be perfectly fair about Larry Correia's rant, a number of years ago he wrote a defense of Jim Butcher, who was being pressured to write more Harry Dresden. In that blog post, Larry wrote the that the writers don't owe the fans anything so if an author chooses to not write the next book in the series, that's just too bad.

The truth, of course, is somewhere between those two rants. Authors and readers have a kind of symbiotic relationship. That means that writers have at least a little responsibility to their audiences to write engaging stories that finish with a satisfying conclusion, and audiences should be patient for the next installments that could be many years coming.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at April 23, 2023 10:08 AM (iZEhM)

123 I don't think the pants guy owns a weedwhacker (if you catch my drift....)

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 10:08 AM (T4tVD)

124 That 'these pants' photo looks like the girl is about to burst and give birth to thousands of baby spiders. Whether that says something about me or the POS who designed the clothes is another matter.
Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (7EjX1)
---
In the book Wit'ch Storm by James Clemens, one of the villains does indeed give birth to spiders. It's just as horrific as you can imagine. Worse, she can "recall" the spiders to her womb...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (BpYfr)

125 I've been dipping in and out of

Robertson Davies, ghost story volume, "High Spirits", which is wonderful in a kind of verbose jolly way. There are no real scares, just...uh, ironies and Canadianisms and concerns of ye olde school.

And-

"The Complete Works of Saki", which are almost the polar opposite of "High Spirits".

Saki's stories are very short, to the point, may or may not involve the supernatural but almost always involve malice. And are meant to entertain you and make you laugh.

With Saki you can clearly see the origins of PG Wodehouse and Evelyn Waugh's writing.

You you've never drunken deep of Saki(!), "Beasts and Superbeasts" is a good place to start.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (RJQ8g)

126 I can understand when out in the world doing other things to jot stuff down, but if you're actively writing it seems it would be easier to use the computer. Just save constantly to avoid loss.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (Angsy)

Not for me. I've always written in longhand first; it allows me to take my time and ponder different ways of saying things.

When I type things up, I consider that my 'first edit,' where I might expand, delete or change things as I go.

My problem is that I type for a living, so spending a few hours typing up something I've written doesn't appeal to me and so I end up where I am - many, many pages behind the 8-ball.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (AW0uW)

127 Yeah, debasing the currency always work. Well, at least it's a bipartisan bill.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 10:05 AM (FVME7)
---
The problem arises when the metal in the currency is worth more than the currency itself.

I actually think we passed that point a while ago, but people are now realizing just how much money could be made in melting down the coinage on a large scale.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (llXky)

128 Greetings and a happy Sunday to all!
This week I finished "The Heart of Everything That Is" by Bob Drury and Tom Clavin.
This book is an historical account of the period known as "Red Cloud's War". Red Cloud was a plains warrior active along the Bozeman Trail who dealt a very serious defeat to Union troops during his campaign, which preceded Custer and the Little Big Horn. He had help from a young brave who was just getting started, Crazy Horse.
Very interesting reading, though grisly at times.

Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (jTmQV)

129 Metal content of coins?

What's left? Are nickels made of nickel?

There is no silver in quarters and dimes. There is little copper in pennies.

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 10:10 AM (5u1+1)

130 As to Ace's ponderings in the sidebar: nothing is ever enough, and never quit beating the enemy down.

If, against my predictions, this becomes the first boycott on the Right to ever work, and force a company to climb down from the Party's position and abjectly apologize for the taking the Party's position on an issue... then that is the green light to intensify the beating and demand more and more and more until they're releasing a series of cans with Heros of Conservative Politics on them, or they go out of business.

That's how you terrorize boardrooms into kowtowing. That's how the Left has always played this game. Not by saying "I hope you've learned your lesson," and letting them off the hook. Grab them by the necktie and punch them til they stutter.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:10 AM (oINRc)

131 Yeah, debasing the currency always work. Well, at least it's a bipartisan bill.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 10:05 AM (FVME7)

That doesn't make sense. Our coins aren't precious metal anyway. Who would melt down our coins for the metal?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:11 AM (Angsy)

132 108 In my long distant past I read some Conan books and found some by Lin Carter. I ended up not being that impressed by his writing, but did find a book he'd written about writing fantasy which did impress me. Though I couldn't find it now on The Great Brazilian River,
Posted by: yara at April 23, 2023 10:00 AM (QdFtX)
---
That would be "Imaginary Worlds: The Art of Fantasy":

https://tinyurl.com/p35usk7z

I've had this since teenhood and still love it.

Hmmm, sounds familiar: "Carter frequently cited his own writings in his non-fiction and almost always included at least one of his own pieces in each of the anthologies he edited. The most extreme instance of his penchant for self-promotion is in the sixth novel in his Callisto sequence, Lankar of Callisto, which features Carter himself as the protagonist."

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:11 AM (Dc2NZ)

133 Not for me. I've always written in longhand first; it allows me to take my time and ponder different ways of saying things.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (AW0uW)
---
My handwriting has become almost entirely illegible, even to me. The thought of cranking out 50,000+ words with a pen or pencil fills me with horror.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (llXky)

134 The truth, of course, is somewhere between those two rants. Authors and readers have a kind of symbiotic relationship. That means that writers have at least a little responsibility to their audiences to write engaging stories that finish with a satisfying conclusion, and audiences should be patient for the next installments that could be many years coming.
Posted by: Cybersmythe at April 23, 2023 10:08 AM (iZEhM)
----
I agree that the truth is probably somewhere in between. I wonder if today's youth have been spoiled by instant gratification. They can binge watch entire series, download music, movies, books, and games instantly to their device. They just don't have the patience to wait for an author to work on a series over many years. When Brandon Sanderson announced he was writing a 10-book epic fantasy, I expected it to take AT LEAST 20 years to finish it. The first one came out in 2010 and book 4 (out of 10) was released in 2020. Looks like Book 5 might be out in 2024.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (BpYfr)

135 I found a nickel recently. Nice and shiny. I thought "Is this real nickel? I wonder how much it's really worth."

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (5u1+1)

136 Morning again, folken!

A quick technique question for your writers and aspriing writers out there. I have a story to submit to the Baen Fantasy Adventure Contest, deadline 4/30. The story's done. However, two of my writing group people complain about the technique I use to hook the reader.

I begin with a crisis/action scene which introduces the two lead characters in the middle of danger. Then I step back two days in the past, proceed forward, until I get to the scene I sampled. I restate the scene in a much shorter fashion. Then, on with the adventure, no more flashbacks, to the end. In other words, if the scenes proceed, A, B, C, D, E, et al., I move D to the front to grab the reader; proceed with A through C; quickly restate D; and move on.

Is this a legitimate technique?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)

137 George RR Martin is in a class by himself. I hate his books. Each chapter jumps to a different story line so there is no continuity on what is happening. He runs multiple story lines and does not conclude a single one at the end of a book. I will always regret reading all 5 books hoping to find out what happens to the characters.
At least Rothfuss only wrote two books and although I liked them, his main character was not typical of my fantasy reading so didn't care that much that there was no third book.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:15 AM (Y+l9t)

138 I can understand when out in the world doing other things to jot stuff down, but if you're actively writing it seems it would be easier to use the computer. Just save constantly to avoid loss.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (Angsy)

I am also Not An Author, but if I were, I think I would write longhand. With a pencil. And rough paper. Because that appeals to me.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 10:15 AM (OX9vb)

139 BOOKEN MORGEN HORDEN!!!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at April 23, 2023 10:16 AM (vHIgi)

140 Happy Birthday William Shakespeare!!
I am sure our educated bookworms here have already given the Bard a shoutout.

Posted by: Jmel at April 23, 2023 10:16 AM (bVhJi)

141 Not for me. I've always written in longhand first; it allows me to take my time and ponder different ways of saying things.

When I type things up, I consider that my 'first edit,' where I might expand, delete or change things as I go.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:09 AM (AW0uW)

I work the same way, just on the computer. I'll start writing a sentence, then stop and think, and either complete it or redo. Once complete, I call it a rough draft. I've been rewriting the whole time, but only in bits and pieces, never the whole story until its sat unread for a while, then I go back over it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (Angsy)

142 My handwriting has become almost entirely illegible, even to me. The thought of cranking out 50,000+ words with a pen or pencil fills me with horror.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (llXky)

Ugh. Yes.

I've never had the beautiful penmanship of my parents, but now-

My handwriting looks like my pen is barfing up the sloppy runes of retarded elves.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (RJQ8g)

143 Wolfus, they do it in movies all the time.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (Y+l9t)

144 "the author cannot resist condescending to her subjects, "
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:06 AM (llXky)

I often wonder if they even realiize they are doing that. I hate it when I get the impression the author is writing down to my level and seems proud of it. I read to better myself, elevate me, don't call me stupid in so many hundreds of words.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (Qs1PU)

145 That doesn't make sense. Our coins aren't precious metal anyway. Who would melt down our coins for the metal?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:11 AM (Angsy)
---
In many applications, coins are now less expensive than the things you buy with them.

Thus: if I have a top-heavy miniature, I just glue a nickel into the bottom of the base. That costs less than buying a washer or slug for the same purpose.

It's like drilling out the center of pennies for use as copper washers. Can't buy a washer for less than a penny, can you?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (llXky)

146 If, against my predictions, this becomes the first boycott on the Right to ever work, and force a company to climb down from the Party's position and abjectly apologize for the taking the Party's position on an issue... then that is the green light to intensify the beating and demand more and more and more until they're releasing a series of cans with Heros of Conservative Politics on them, or they go out of business.

I'm with you, YD. This 'boycott' is on its last legs. By this time next year, A-B stock price will be back where it was before the kerfuffle and Bud Light will be touting some of the highest sales in brand history. I guarantee it.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (AW0uW)

147 Off and on I'm doing a sci-fi book written in late 1950s style, for fun, and the most fun is using techobabble. Vidscreen, hashcom, stuff like that you just name but don't have to actually describe in detail! That book retrieval system: people live in enormous blocks, whisked to their apartments by a similar system. I used 'elevpod' and got into an unexpected argument with a colleague who absolutely hated it! I'm not sure why, we went around for weeks over it. He just bristled at elevpod. Elevator + pod, seemed fine to me, but...

Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:18 AM (JgsYr)

148 Is this a legitimate technique?

It certainly is. Starting out with a bang is the best way to get your readers' interest.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:19 AM (AW0uW)

149 I often wonder if they even realiize they are doing that. I hate it when I get the impression the author is writing down to my level and seems proud of it. I read to better myself, elevate me, don't call me stupid in so many hundreds of words.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (Qs1PU)
---
Perhaps the defining feature of 70s feminism was the absolute certitude of its advocates. Why it was self-evident that if women just had a fair chance, if men could just keep their hands to themselves, everything would be better!

The same sensibility also applied to religion - why those big church buildings were a waste of money and pointless. And all those useless monks just standing around and praying?

Same vibe.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:19 AM (llXky)

150 Handwriting is a "use it or lose it" kind of skill, in my personal experience. I have a collection of fountain pens and if I neglect them I have to regain the skill until it becomes passable.

Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023 10:19 AM (jTmQV)

151 Is this a legitimate technique?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)
---
Were they complaining about the technique itself? Starting a story "in media res" is perfectly valid. Helps grab the reader and engage them in the story.

Or did they complain that they found the technique hard to follow? In that case, there may be a structural weakness in the story that is difficult for the reader to connect all of the elements of the story together. Is there a key gap in the story that creates a discontinuity for the reader?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:20 AM (BpYfr)

152 Gah! You work longhand? I use the computer. Any other author here use pad and pencil?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 09:45 AM (Angsy)

Supposedly, Shelby Foote wrote w/a quill, really focuses the mind.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2023 10:20 AM (AwYPR)

153 Wolfus, they do it in movies all the time.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023

***
True. IN fact I got it from the old Fugitive TV series, where they would pinch up a dramatic scene from later in the episode to use as a teaser before the main credits. I do it because I usually have trouble "hooking" a reader unless I can start with a crisis or bit of action. The only other way I can see is to start with the two leads (a human and a griffin) meeting; and that could be intriguing. But I don't feel it to be as dramatic.

The two complainers in the group find it confusing. That I hate to do to any reader, especially an editor who is judging my work.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:21 AM (omVj0)

154 Is this a legitimate technique?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)

Why not? I used that technique in my first "Harry" story. Others have too. I sorta like that. It's like a dust jacket blurb. It hooks you, you want to find out what happens.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:21 AM (Angsy)

155 I refuse to watch a lengthy Youtube video when a list would have sufficed.

Posted by: Jim at April 23, 2023 10:21 AM (2subk)

156 I'm with you, YD. This 'boycott' is on its last legs. By this time next year, A-B stock price will be back where it was before the kerfuffle and Bud Light will be touting some of the highest sales in brand history. I guarantee it.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (AW0uW)
---
Disagree. Bud Light was already losing popularity, this simply accelerates a permanent decline. It's cheap bellywash and even in my liberal college town, the unsold cases are piling up.

The target audience was never going to make up sales - those people drink fancy IPAs. Easy for the masses to shift over to PBR.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:22 AM (llXky)

157 He just bristled at elevpod. Elevator + pod, seemed fine to me, but...
Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:18 AM (JgsYr)
----
Hmmm...I rolled "elevpod" around and it just doesn't seem to flow right. Maybe "levpod?" Shorten it to two syllables and it seems to work. Or even 'levpod (with an apostrophe) indicating a deliberate missing letter.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:22 AM (BpYfr)

158 Is this a legitimate technique?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius

Seen it done,specially in tv, In my personal opinion, it can be annoying.
1. Super exciting opening, suddenly becomes boring. Specially bad if it's totally different characters in the two scenes. I as a reader just want to get to the exciting part.
2. Confusing. If this is being done, be very clear about the time jump.
That said, sometimes it works well. I guess it comes down to how well you do it?

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at April 23, 2023 10:23 AM (vHIgi)

159 On reflection, I think Terry Pratchett's approach to epic fantasy was better.
Each book is stand-alone, the stories follow the world and not so much individuals changing the world, and all against a fantasy world.
if you fail to read them in strict order you don't get lost, and it avoids those long discussions of who did what to whom and put it mostly on a personal level.

The Reconquista, or the Peloponesian war, or the collapse of the Alexandrian Empire was both stories of giant figures doing titanic things, but it was also a lot of small people doing hard things as well. Or not doing them.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:23 AM (xhaym)

160 I am also Not An Author, but if I were, I think I would write longhand. With a pencil. And rough paper. Because that appeals to me.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 10:15 AM (OX9vb)

Plus a quill pen? Or maybe a nice, messy fountain pen. I liked fountain pens, but the ink starts spreading on rough paper.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:23 AM (Angsy)

161 Also not an author, but when I do write I prefer the tactile connection of pen and paper, which seems directly connected to my thoughts, unlike the interface of a keyboard.

I write faster than I can type. That's how bad my typing is.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:23 AM (Dc2NZ)

162 @136 --

Wolfus, I am no writer, but yes, that technique is legit. Comics do it all the time.

The splash page is often action. The hero thinks, "How did I get into this mess?", and then comes the flashback.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 10:24 AM (uIu2G)

163 An ABC of Science Fiction: Twenty-Six Excursions into the Fantastic From Aldiss to Zelazny
Pavane by Keith Roberts
Space Visitor by Mack Reynolds
Planet of No Return by Harry Harrison . . .

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023

***
I've read Pavane; it's considered one of the best alternate-history stories. Harrison's book, is that one of the "Deathworld" novels?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:24 AM (omVj0)

164 Is this a legitimate technique?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)

I would think so. I am certain that I've read books that used this technique, and I don't have a problem with it.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023 10:25 AM (OX9vb)

165 good morning and thank for the thread, perfessor.

Just haven't had time for the book thread, lately. Which is a pity.

I'm always entertained when Larry Correia goes on a rant. Wrong or right, though, near as I can tell, he's usually right, the man does have righteous rant style.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 10:25 AM (2YtOq)

166 Is this a legitimate technique?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)
---
Well into the 80s, TV shows would start with quick frames of what was in that evening's episode, usually featuring a statement taken gratuitously out of context to make you think a character was dead or something.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:25 AM (llXky)

167 Happy Birthday William Shakespeare!!
I am sure our educated bookworms here have already given the Bard a shoutout.

Posted by: Jmel at April 23, 2023 10:16 AM (bVhJi)

glares

I did not!

Posted by: Francis Bacon, the Real Shakespeare Author at April 23, 2023 10:25 AM (Angsy)

168 I remember Avram Davidson in one of his stories (don't recall which one) had a pulp writer musing about the formula for adventure stories: "Show the guy on the cliff. Tell how he got on the cliff. Get him off the cliff."

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:25 AM (QZxDR)

169 OMG, you too?!
Ugh. Fine, I'll think about it some more.
Also, in Europe a lot of elevators are Schindler make, and every single time I think, 'Schindler's Lift'.

Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:26 AM (JgsYr)

170 I find the roboticized library in the pic horrifying

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at April 23, 2023 10:26 AM (vHIgi)

171 High Class Shabby Genteel.
I think a lot of us here can cotton up to that description of ourselves.

Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 10:26 AM (4780s)

172 Thirty years ago I was reading A LOT of Stephen King. I was really enjoying the Dark Tower Series through Book 4, Wizard and Glass, which I still think is a masterpiece of story-telling, and probably the best King work I have read. Well ole Steve got lazy, almost died, and then figured he had better dash off Books 5-7 to finish the series. For me, the final three books paled in comparison to the earlier works; there were moments, but very little of the magic the earlier works held. I just never forgave him for rushing through a story I had a lot invested in. Then he *retired*, then he came back, then he figured we all needed to know his politics. I moved on and haven't looked back, except to read Wizard and Glass one more time to see if it was as good as I had remembered...it was.

Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-Buffest Mayor In America at April 23, 2023 10:26 AM (/hIpD)

173 I find that working in longhand forces some degree of clean-up or revision when I'm typing up the work. (If only because I'm trying to decipher my own atrocious handwriting -- would kill to have handwriting like the way-beyond-nifty Mrs Some Guy)

If you know exactly what you want, that retrieval system is okay if properly managed and maintained. It does in fact eliminate the serendipity of finding something you didn't know you wanted (which was half the fun of using a library), but these days I'm not sure if a lot of librarians think that's the point of the library shelves anyway. Been a long time since I was a librarian, and I doubt I'd be a good fit for the job any more.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (a/4+U)

174 I write faster than I can type. That's how bad my typing is.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:23 AM (Dc2NZ)
---

We can barfle fling that four ewe.

Posted by: Dragon Naturally Speaking at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (2YtOq)

175 I finished Agency by William Gibson. Book has me a little conflicted because in a lot of ways it is one of his best books. But he does some things he doesn't normally do and they bug me. One is delve in current world politics. He never names Trump and Hillary by name but he has an alt history stream in which Hillary won and man, is she evermore awesome!

Posted by: blaster at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (oob1u)

176
Just got home from my seditious extremist service, where white, black, Hispanic and Oriental white supremacists heard a Traditional Latin Mass. Just like the Ku Klux Klan!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (MoZTd)

177 I started three different books this week and nothing grabbed me. I had just finished Agency, the Gibson sequel to The Peripheral and everything just paled in comparison. Then got a copy of Pattern Recognition from the library. There was only one copy in the entire Montgomery County system. Opened it last night and to my horror, some one underlined and wrote stupid comments in the margins. It was so distracting I could not read the book. I read very quickly and these notes kept drawing my eyes away from the text.
Who does such a despicable thing? Just selfish and rude.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (Y+l9t)

178 What would you file it under?
Posted by: davidt at April 23, 2023 09:52 AM (SYTee)

Actually you would want to give it a valid ID and a boring accession number, place it correctly in the stacks, and then fail to do the entry in the index computer and backup card catalog.
Any competent librarian or stock clerk will ID and correct misfiled item, but will ignore anything correctly filed unless it is ordered.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (xhaym)

179 Seen it done,specially in tv, In my personal opinion, it can be annoying.
1. Super exciting opening, suddenly becomes boring. Specially bad if it's totally different characters in the two scenes. I as a reader just want to get to the exciting part.
2. Confusing. If this is being done, be very clear about the time jump.
That said, sometimes it works well. I guess it comes down to how well you do it?
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at April 23, 2023

***
Good points. Yes, the scene immediately following the opening involves the same two leads, in fact shows how they meet.

As a reader, I would far rather have a story that begins with some action, even if I'm asking "What the hell is going on here?", than one which begins with the hero riding up to an abandoned building -- even if he is reflecting that he needs to make it to Point A before winter chokes the mountain passes, or something like that.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:28 AM (omVj0)

180 I've never had the beautiful penmanship of my parents, but now-

My handwriting looks like my pen is barfing up the sloppy runes of retarded elves.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (RJQ8g)

The Sloppy Runes of Retarded Elves. A fantasy series presented by Nutflix. Premieres August 2023!

Posted by: Nutflix at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (Angsy)

181 Just got home from my seditious extremist service, where white, black, Hispanic and Oriental white supremacists heard a Traditional Latin Mass. Just like the Ku Klux Klan!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (MoZTd)
---
I just learned that my old parish (not far away at all) does a Latin Mass on the second Sunday of each month. Already on the calendar!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (llXky)

182 In theory I love epic fantasy. Alas, I don't read much of it these days, not because of any of the reasons Correia stated (I had never heard of Martin until the tv show, and I still haven't heard of the other guy) but just because I've largely fallen out of the novel-reading habit.

One issue I'm running into in the fantasy epic I do periodically try to make progress on (The Buried Goddess Saga) is character bloat. The story established three protagonists in the first book. Then separated the three into separate quests in the second and third books. Starting in the fourth book, the original protagonists are still each on separate quests, but now they've introduced additional 'protagonists' who are also on their own, not yet interacting with any of the established heroes! But I don't really care about the new characters, and they just mean more time between reading about the originals. Sometimes I just want to rage-skip the new-character chapters so I can get back to the people I care about, and hopefully advance their plot to the point where they can reunite with their friends...

Posted by: Castle Guy at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (92RsY)

183 That's some library book storage and retrieval system. Only thing similar I've seen IRL is the currency storage and retrieval system used by the Federal Reserve Bank branch in Houston.

Hope they have power backups and backup to that.

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (4I/2K)

184 I remember Avram Davidson in one of his stories (don't recall which one) had a pulp writer musing about the formula for adventure stories: "Show the guy on the cliff. Tell how he got on the cliff. Get him off the cliff."
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023

***
That is exactly what I'm trying for!!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (omVj0)

185 Harrison's book, is that one of the "Deathworld" novels?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:24 AM (omVj0)
---

It's a follow-on to Planet of the Damned (which I haven't read).

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (Dc2NZ)

186
Who does such a despicable thing? Just selfish and rude.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (Y+l9t)

___________

Could have been worse. They could have dog-eared the pages.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:30 AM (MoZTd)

187 Who does such a despicable thing? Just selfish and rude.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (Y+l9t)
---------------

Wow, that's terrible. I was taught to treat library books like they're treasure.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 10:30 AM (2YtOq)

188 Wolfus,

If memory serves, Lawrence Block discussed that technique in one of his books on writing, and has used it himself. It's valid.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023 10:30 AM (a/4+U)

189 Hey Perfesser, the link is up now:
The Olympian Affair (The Cinder Spires Book 2)
https://www.amazon.com /dp/0451466829
(hardcover, because switching to Kindle returns a giant URL which I'm too lazy to tiny-ize)

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (llON8)

190 All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:11 AM (Dc2NZ)

thanks, Eris.

Posted by: yara at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (QdFtX)

191 Morning Hordemates!

Anything wearing pants like those gets swatted with a rolled up magazine.

Sheesh.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (anj39)

192 Is this a legitimate technique?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023
*
I would think so. I am certain that I've read books that used this technique, and I don't have a problem with it.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at April 23, 2023

***
I can think of at least two short stories that do it: Larry Niven's "Neutron Star," and Heinlein's "Ordeal in Space." With novels, you have more room and can explain stuff at a little more length. In a short you have to move fast. But it can be done.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (omVj0)

193 Could have been worse. They could have dog-eared the pages.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:30 AM (MoZTd)
---
I'll confess that I used to dog-ear pages when I was a child. I don't do that anymore, though. Now I use a proper bookmark.

Did you know Magic: The Gathering land cards make excellent bookmarks? I have enough for all of my books with plenty of spares...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:32 AM (BpYfr)

194 I went so far as to buy actual Space Science books from the mid-1950s just to get a sense of what seemed possible at the time. Also to ground the techobabble in actual terms of the times. It's fun to write 'Soviets', too.
Been a long time!

Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:32 AM (JgsYr)

195 High Class Shabby Genteel.
I think a lot of us here can cotton up to that description of ourselves.
Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 10:26 AM (4780s)

Most of my friends are in low places.

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 23, 2023 10:32 AM (4I/2K)

196 Not a Doctor, but my handwriting could pass for a Dr.'s.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2023 10:33 AM (AwYPR)

197 I refuse to watch a lengthy Youtube video when a list would have sufficed.

Posted by: Jim at April 23, 2023 10:21 AM (2subk)

Or a ten minute vid with only the last minute with useful information you need. The rest, showing off fluff.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:33 AM (Angsy)

198 Hey Perfesser, the link is up now:
The Olympian Affair (The Cinder Spires Book 2)
https://www.amazon.com /dp/0451466829
(hardcover, because switching to Kindle returns a giant URL which I'm too lazy to tiny-ize)
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (llON

---
*sigh* November 7th is going to be an awesome--yet conflicted--day. That's when Tad Williams' The Navigator's Children will also be arriving...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:34 AM (BpYfr)

199 Re: Correia's rant

I understand his disdain of complainers. He gets more than his sue share sue to politics, and his poking the bear (Sad Puppies), and his brashness in general.

I will say, I am personally noticing I am migrating towards prolific authors (that I also write in a genre I enjoy, I.e, fantasy and sci-fi, not mysteries or romances) so Correa, jack Campbell, Ilona Andrews, David drake, Glenn cook, and so on. And quite few Patreon web novels ( where they provide routine content, like serials of old)

I think the flip side of Correias rant is that new authors may have to adjust their approach and not rely on the 1930s-1970s approach to breaking in.

Of course, Correia is correct that his targets are worth some of, if not all, of his disdain.

Posted by: Legion of Boom at April 23, 2023 10:34 AM (1ceR8)

200 Maybe he is a Brit ex-pat and prefers "lift-pod?"

Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 10:34 AM (5u1+1)

201 On Jim Butcher and Dresden, it's now over 23 years in the making. We're coming up on 3 years since the last release and while Butcher is working on the next book, realistically it doesn't seem likely to be published before the 4th anniversary of the last once. And this next book has been inserted into his planned series after the last book - so effectively, stretching out the conclusion to the series even further. By way of comparison, based upon Butcher's pace when I started reading Dresden, I expected the series to conclude about the time I retired. I've been retired for over 2 years now, and Butcher is 6 or 7 books from being finished (assuming he doesn't insert more). So, what, another 20 years before the end?

I won't start another series that hasn't been finished. Fool me once; fool me twice. Plus, too much good content out there to spend my time being frustrated with authors who can't finish what they started.

Posted by: Kreskin at April 23, 2023 10:35 AM (xP8Wr)

202 If memory serves, Lawrence Block discussed that technique in one of his books on writing, and has used it himself. It's valid.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023

***
I knew I didn't invent it myself, and wasn't the first to apply the visual TV/movie technique to the printed page. The two members of my writing group, one of whom claims to have been a copy editor and is now a "published" author with Black Rose Writing, say you can't do it, or that it's always confusing. Neither has read as widely as I have in mystery or SF.

The fourth member had no problem with the technique. Nor did our own OrangEnt, who was kind enough to read the ms. last week and give me some feedback.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:35 AM (omVj0)

203 Could have been worse. They could have dog-eared the pages.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:30 AM (MoZTd)
---
A terrible habit which I learned from my mother when I was young was not bother with a bookmark of any sort, just squash the book down onto a table. This usually creased the spine, but since she rarely kept books around after she was done with them, no worries.

I did that while visiting my father and he almost stroked out in rage. I get a sense that this was one of the irreconcilable issues that doomed their marriage. He sent me home with a bunch of magazine business reply cards. It's no longer an issue because I have so many book store bookmarks lying around, plus endless scrap paper.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:35 AM (llXky)

204 Also I need to order that China Military book, his book on the Spanish Civil War is very very good.
Note to self.

Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:36 AM (JgsYr)

205 I used 'elevpod' and got into an unexpected argument with a colleague who absolutely hated it! I'm not sure why, we went around for weeks over it. He just bristled at elevpod. Elevator + pod, seemed fine to me, but...

Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:18 AM (JgsYr)

Why not "levpod" instead? Makes it easier to read and say. Maybe that was their objection? Or Pneutube? Just don't use "Servibot," I'm using that in my sci-fi attempt....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:36 AM (Angsy)

206
Did you know Magic: The Gathering land cards make excellent bookmarks? I have enough for all of my books with plenty of spares...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:32 AM (BpYfr)

__________

I use dog show ribbons. Perfect length, width and thickness.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:36 AM (MoZTd)

207 Someone recommended a book. Infinite Jest. I looked it up, and it's very, very long and it seems pretentious. That's a whole lot of pretense to fight through. Anybody here ever read it? Is it worth the time? Or should I pass?

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (oINRc)

208 Hmmm...I rolled "elevpod" around and it just doesn't seem to flow right. Maybe "levpod?" Shorten it to two syllables and it seems to work. Or even 'levpod (with an apostrophe) indicating a deliberate missing letter.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:22 AM (BpYfr)

See! I was right!

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (Angsy)

209 Blaster knows I have a completely different take on Agency than he does. The book takes place in 2017 but you have to go looking for a political context because the story is about the melding of an AI with a personality with the main character who proceeds to go on an adventure orchestrated by said AI.
In the background is the reason that this alternate timeline exists is because there has been outside interference which has set them on the road to Armageddon. The President does not play any role in the "adventure".
Can't say more without spoilers but this is a great exciting read and don't want people to avoid it because they think it is woke.
Also pretty important to read the Peripheral first and Agency explains a lot of the ambiguity in the first book.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:38 AM (Y+l9t)

210 My handwriting has become almost entirely illegible, even to me. The thought of cranking out 50,000+ words with a pen or pencil fills me with horror.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (llXky)

Murray Rothbard wrote his initial works in longhand then annotated them and then did the typed manuscript. He died while doing the annotation of his final book, and his handwriting was so bad/atypical that no one could read it, and took years before they publisher could get someone to decipher it.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:39 AM (xhaym)

211
Anybody here ever read it? Is it worth the time? Or should I pass?
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (oINRc)

___________

I haven't, but it seems like the kind of book status-anxious women want to say they've read. Therefore, best avoided.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:39 AM (MoZTd)

212 @168 "Show the guy on the cliff. Tell how he got on the cliff. Get him off the cliff."

That's the opening scene of The Fountainhead.
"Howard Roark laughed."

Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at April 23, 2023 10:39 AM (jYCXf)

213 Is this a legitimate technique?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:14 AM (omVj0)

Andre Norton did most of her books like that

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:40 AM (xhaym)

214 Murray Rothbard wrote his initial works in longhand then annotated them and then did the typed manuscript. He died while doing the annotation of his final book, and his handwriting was so bad/atypical that no one could read it, and took years before they publisher could get someone to decipher it.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:39 AM (xhaym)

That's why I usually print.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2023 10:40 AM (AwYPR)

215 80 ... "Gah! You work longhand? I use the computer. Any other author here use pad and pencil?"

I'm not an author but when I wrote for the local newspaper (features, not breaking news) I did my first drafts long hand, usually with a fountain pen. It gave me the time to find the right tone and words. (Keep in mind, Shelby Foote wrote his Civil War trilogy using a dip pen and most of the world's literature was done with a quill.)

Sometimes the writing instrument can make a difference. One article I did about an 1800s market fair was drafted with a quill. Another article about a Civil War exhibition was done with a metal nib dip pen. The right tool helped me catch the attitude I was wanted to get across.

When I want to get modern I use a manual typewriter and carbon paper, if needed. Nothing says up to date like composing on a 1940 Royal KHM desk top typewriter. :-)

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 10:40 AM (7EjX1)

216 Speaking of bookmarks...

When doing research for Long Live Death and Walls of Men, I was at first trying to use actual bookmarks combined with old business cards, etc.

Finally, I got serious and started tearing paper into uniform little card-sized pieces by way of folding them in half multiple times. This generated 16 bookmarks per page and there's always plenty of scrap around.

When the book was finally published, I would then with great joy remove all the bookmarks and put the books on the shelves. Very satisfying.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:41 AM (llXky)

217 And all those useless monks just standing around and praying?

Same vibe.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:19 AM (llXky)

Heh. Part of my dive into the 14th century is my ancestry in the Austin Friars. Standing around and praying is in my blood, mostly standing around. I'm really good at that.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 10:42 AM (J/6RF)

218 Dollar bills make good bookmarks.

Posted by: davidt at April 23, 2023 10:42 AM (SYTee)

219 Bing's main page today is Stuttgart's public library. I would never want to visit such an eye searing aesthetic blight in real life.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 23, 2023 10:42 AM (wPlLO)

220 I haven't, but it seems like the kind of book status-anxious women want to say they've read. Therefore, best avoided.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:39 AM (MoZTd)

That's kinda the vibe I got, but couldn't quite put my finger on it. A bien pensant bourgeois midwit thing.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:42 AM (oINRc)

221 Just finished rereading The Best and The Brightest. Contains one of my favorite political stories. LBJ was talking to his mentor Sam Rayburn about how Kennedy had brought in all the experts with degrees from the major universities like the Bundys, Ball, MacNamara etc and how smart they were. Mr. Sam responded " that's great but I wish one of them had just run for sheriff"

Posted by: Smell the Glove at April 23, 2023 10:42 AM (1Ohlm)

222 218 -

And if our current geniuses-in-charge have their way, seems like bookmarks is all they'll be good for.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023 10:43 AM (a/4+U)

223 Is this a legitimate technique?
*
It certainly is. Starting out with a bang is the best way to get your readers' interest.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023

***
Thanks, MP4! I guess the only worry I might have is that, when the reader reaches the re-appearance of Scene D, which I opened with, he may say to himself, "Didn't I just read this?" Personally I would think any literate fiction reader will realize what I've done and say, "Right, right. Now what?" I keep it short and don't dawdle. Before he knows it, I'm already into the next scene.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:44 AM (omVj0)

224 Edwin Newman had a line in one of his books making fun of the name McGeorge Bundy. Something like "we can't just open the place up to every McTom, McDick, and McHarry!"

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:44 AM (QZxDR)

225 >>> 142 My handwriting has become almost entirely illegible, even to me. The thought of cranking out 50,000+ words with a pen or pencil fills me with horror.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:13 AM (llXky)

Ugh. Yes.

I've never had the beautiful penmanship of my parents, but now-

My handwriting looks like my pen is barfing up the sloppy runes of retarded elves.
Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 10:17 AM (RJQ8g)

LOL

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:44 AM (llON8)

226 Reading "The Fall of Hyperion", the second book in the 4 book "Hyperion Cantos" by Dan Simmons. Easily the most complicated, challenging, mind-bending science fiction I have ever read. I will definitely need to read this series a couple more times once I finish it just to figure out what the Hell is really going on.

Enjoying it immensely, despite the fact that one of the main characters is a poet, and I have less patience with poets than I do for French mimes.

Posted by: Sharkman at April 23, 2023 10:45 AM (PMYn/)

227 (It's possible I resemble that remark...)

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:45 AM (llON8)

228 That is exactly what I'm trying for!!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:29 AM (omVj0)

That was apparently the technique Keaton and Lloyd did in the silents.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:45 AM (Angsy)

229 I have a small box to hold bookmarks: from bookstores, made from old notecards, things I've drawn, and gimmes from independent print conventions I've attended.

It's important that the bookmark fit the book, you know!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:45 AM (Dc2NZ)

230 In medea raeus [spelling?]

In the middle of things.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 23, 2023 10:46 AM (wPlLO)

231 Hey Perfesser, the link is up now:
The Olympian Affair (The Cinder Spires Book 2)
https://www.amazon.com /dp/0451466829
(hardcover, because switching to Kindle returns a giant URL which I'm too lazy to tiny-ize)

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:31 AM (llON

You could have written it longhand, you know....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 10:46 AM (Angsy)

232
I have to use block capitals now because my handwriting is otherwise illegible.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:46 AM (MoZTd)

233 I wonder how co-authoring a book works. The book I just finished is an example of it. I couldn't determine who wrote what. Do they say "ok, I'll do chapters 1 thru 10, and you take 11 thru 20..." etc.

Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023 10:47 AM (jTmQV)

234 I was able to solve my jonesing for a Gibson book. My old library in MA which still allows me to read ebooks, had a copy of Gibson's Virtual Light which it turns out preceded IDORU which I recently read. There was a copy available, could check it out electronically immediately(ant 12:30 am) and Voila! Problem solved.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 10:48 AM (Y+l9t)

235 Way back in high school one of my teachers taught us to take notes in block capitals rather than cursive. If you're rushing to keep up with a speaker, caps remain legible better than cursive, which just turns into a wiggly line.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:48 AM (QZxDR)

236 Sharon(willow*s apprentice), thank you for the scoop on Agency. I have one Audible credit to spend and now I know what to spend it on!

Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-Buffest Mayor In America at April 23, 2023 10:48 AM (/hIpD)

237 Speaking of the Black Rose Writing publisher: I've seen mixed commentary on them. Are they legit, do they actually do editing and publicity for you? They don't require a fee, do they?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:49 AM (omVj0)

238 Time for Mass. Thanks again, Perfesser!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at April 23, 2023 10:49 AM (llXky)

239 I read Proof of Heaven 5 years ago or so- very good, interesting, and gave me a push to start thinking about these crucially important and deep issues.

Today I'm reading Jesus on Trial by David Limbaugh. A well-written, modern apologetic that uses Limbaugh's own faith journey to explain various historical facts and mysteries surrounding Christ. So far, I would recommend.

Posted by: LASue at April 23, 2023 10:49 AM (Ed8Zd)

240 Happy Birthday Notsothoreau!!

Posted by: washrivergal at April 23, 2023 10:50 AM (jWvBS)

241 I wonder how co-authoring a book works. The book I just finished is an example of it. I couldn't determine who wrote what. Do they say "ok, I'll do chapters 1 thru 10, and you take 11 thru 20..." etc.
Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023

***
The Ellery Queen cousins fought like Hatfields and McCoys for 40-some years. One devised the brilliant mystery plots and clues for the most part, and the other devised the characters to bring all that to life.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:51 AM (omVj0)

242 OK, folks, going to make a cup of tea and see if I can at least type up chapter 1.

Hope you all have a lovely day.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 23, 2023 10:51 AM (AW0uW)

243 In medea raeus [spelling?]

In the middle of things.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 23, 2023

***
n media res is the way I've usually seen it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (omVj0)

244
Something like "we can't just open the place up to every McTom, McDick, and McHarry!"
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:44 AM (QZxDR)

__________

I remember a baritone named McHenry Boatwright.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (MoZTd)

245 Wolfus,

There's a site (or there used to be -- think it's still out there) called Writer Beware; devoted to scams and gotchas aimed at writers. You might check to see if Black Rose is in there?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (a/4+U)

246 I've collaborated on some nonfiction works, and in those we just picked chapters, and each author went over the other's text for style and clarity.

From what I've heard, some writers divide up the characters in a collaborative novel, and write it that way.

Gladstone and El-Mohtar wrote their epistolary novel _This is How You Lose the Time War_ by literally just writing letters back and forth.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (QZxDR)

247 >>> 175 I finished Agency by William Gibson. Book has me a little conflicted because in a lot of ways it is one of his best books. But he does some things he doesn't normally do and they bug me. One is delve in current world politics. He never names Trump and Hillary by name but he has an alt history stream in which Hillary won and man, is she evermore awesome!
Posted by: blaster at April 23, 2023 10:27 AM (oob1u)

In Bill Quick's Lightning Fall President Millicent Carter and the First Gentlemen Beauregard Jeff Carter do not deal well with the aftermath of an EMP attack on the U.S. Speaking of books with dangling sequels...

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (llON8)

248 243 In medea raeus [spelling?]

In the middle of things.
Posted by: Anna Puma at April 23, 2023

***
n media res is the way I've usually seen it.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023

***
Oops. In media res.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (omVj0)

249 after it was mentioned on a previous thread, I got a copy of "The Encyclopedia of Country Living". I'm too old to do a lot of the stuff covered but it is well-written and fun reading. And there is some good and useful stuff in there.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 10:54 AM (7EjX1)

250 >>> 198

---
*sigh* November 7th is going to be an awesome--yet conflicted--day. That's when Tad Williams' The Navigator's Children will also be arriving...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 23, 2023 10:34 AM (BpYfr)

Eh, who needs to sleep when you have good books to read?

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 10:54 AM (llON8)

251 Sometimes in song writing you see a person attributed as co-composer but that person had little or nothing to do with the creation of the song, it's just a financial agreement. For instance on a lot of Duke Ellington publications you will see Irving Mills attributed but Mr. Mills was Ellington's manager and had no musical ability whatsoever.

Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023 10:55 AM (jTmQV)

252 I would be very interested to hear the reactions of other morons who have read this book.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at April 16, 2023 09:49 AM (fTtFy)

Proof of Heaven

I read this and found it to be very convincing. I was especially intrigued by his experience in returning to consciousness; that it was difficult to "fit" back into this world, which was so limiting.

Of course, I'm already on board with reincarnation, since it seems to explain so much about people. Tim and I used to discuss the afterlife, and while he adhered to the more traditional Christian views, he understood why I might choose to believe in it.

Then, some months after he died, he "visited" me and confirmed that reincarnation was real and that he had been my younger brother in a previous life.

I know, sounds crazy, right? But now I "know" as opposed to "believe" in an afterlife.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 23, 2023 10:55 AM (Mzdiz)

253 Off to slay the day. I'll be back later to critique your comments.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread) at April 23, 2023 10:56 AM (Dc2NZ)

254 which just turns into a wiggly line.
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:48 AM (QZxDR)

I have tomes of notebooks written by my Grandmother in the 30's.. in shorthand. No idea what they say. Her penmenship was incredible though and I'm sure the assuredly precice squiggly lines could be read but not by me

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 10:56 AM (J/6RF)

255 n media res is the way I've usually seen it.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:52 AM (omVj0)

I have always asserted that "In Media Res" means "cattle wearing socks"

(then I have to explain the joke - so a free cookie to anyone that gets it)

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 10:56 AM (xhaym)

256 after it was mentioned on a previous thread, I got a copy of "The Encyclopedia of Country Living". I'm too old to do a lot of the stuff covered but it is well-written and fun reading. And there is some good and useful stuff in there.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 10:54 AM (7EjX1)

Awaiting delivery of the entire "Foxfire" series....might need to slaughter a hog.

Posted by: BignJames at April 23, 2023 10:59 AM (AwYPR)

257 Thanks for the thread Perf!

Posted by: gourmand du jour, mmm diesel chicken at April 23, 2023 10:59 AM (jTmQV)

258
There's a site (or there used to be -- think it's still out there) called Writer Beware; devoted to scams and gotchas aimed at writers. You might check to see if Black Rose is in there?
Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023

***
Yes, and part of the mixed commentary I've seen references what they say about Black Rose on that blog. As late as 2019 BR was still "strongly encouraging" their writers to buy their own books (they used to include that in the writers' contracts!). Beyond that, they have other enterprises like pay-to-play marketing programs. Reputable publishers don't sell marketing and publicity services to their authors.

The fellow I know, if he was a copy editor once upon a time, his skills have fallen mightily. You should have seen the red ink I spread in correcting on his
opening chapter for an SF novel.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:00 AM (omVj0)

259 Someone recommended a book. Infinite Jest. I looked it up, and it's very, very long and it seems pretentious. That's a whole lot of pretense to fight through. Anybody here ever read it? Is it worth the time? Or should I pass?
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (oINRc)

David Foster Wallace.

I really tried to read it, but couldn't.
Don't waste your time.
Pass

Posted by: JoeF. at April 23, 2023 11:03 AM (mR6Gs)

260 Speaking of the Black Rose Writing publisher: I've seen mixed commentary on them. Are they legit, do they actually do editing and publicity for you? They don't require a fee, do they?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 10:49 AM (omVj0)

Just checking the site now, they have links to favored editors. Some might be free. But they don't pub Westerns....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:04 AM (Angsy)

261 "a financial disaster for the United States as dollars flood back into the U.S. and drive inflation to unimaginable levels"

Yep, it's going to be a wild ride. Like you, Perfessor, we have limited means, so we need to allocate carefully. I just can't seem to get Publius on board with precious metals. He's in denial. His parents have investments, and if I had a say-so (which I do not arrogate to myself), I would take at least 10% and buy physical gold. This, to protect value (not to get rich). Ideally this is money you don't intend to spend. Then another 10% in smaller amounts of silver, bullion and constitutional silver (pre-1965 US coinage). That will be for trade during the post-dollar times.

As to ideal preps for the hard years to come: I would say, stock up on essentials, including but not limited to food and medicine, and security. Get the fuck out of cities, they will be killing grounds. Prepare for 2-5 very hard years as we figure things out.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 23, 2023 11:04 AM (Mzdiz)

262 Money should flow TOWARD the writer, not away. If you have to hire editing services, fine. If you want to hire someone for marketing fine. In both cases be sure you're getting actual value for your dollars.

But either you're selling the rights to your work to a publisher in exchange for payment, or you are acting as your own publisher and will get the profits, if any.

If you're just paying to have your book "published," eliminate the middleman and hire a printer to manufacture a few dozen copies to put on your shelf and give to friends.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 11:05 AM (QZxDR)

263 Shorthand can be learned Reforger. Sometimes old journals are fantastic insights into the time they were written.
My dad put out a book of grandfather's stories from his remembering them, from some interviews he did, and Grandma's writing them down as well

It is called Tenino, Washington: The Decades of Boom & Bust

though it is way out of print and I can find no copies online and the copyright is now owned by the South Thurston Historical Society

Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 11:07 AM (xhaym)

264 >>> 260

==
Just checking the site now, they have links to favored editors. Some might be free. But they don't pub Westerns....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:04 AM (Angsy)

Publish them yourself.

Look up Peter Grant's Ames Archive series, or for that matter the republished editions of old Western and SF stories by D. Jason Fleming.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:09 AM (llON8)

265 Speaking of the Black Rose Writing publisher: I've seen mixed commentary on them. Are they legit, do they actually do editing and publicity for you? They don't require a fee, do they?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023
*
Just checking the site now, they have links to favored editors. Some might be free. But they don't pub Westerns....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023

***
After looking around on the 'Net, I'm distinctly wary of the whole thing. I haven't read my group member's mystery novel . . . but if BRW doesn't do much editing for you, doesn't market the thing, and yet takes most of the royalties, I think I'd be better off going with Amazon at least to start.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:10 AM (omVj0)

266 I know, sounds crazy, right? But now I "know" as opposed to "believe" in an afterlife.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 23, 2023 10:55 AM (Mzdiz)

Interesting. Hebrews 9:27 says: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment, that's why I don't believe in reincarnation.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:10 AM (Angsy)

267 Forget it, guys. It's all over. Geraldo has endorsed Chris Christie.

Geraldo Rivera@GeraldoRivera
Like Chris Christie, I believe Donald Trump lost the right to be president when he undermined our elections and incited the January 6th insurrection. Shocking how so many GOP voters are giving Trump a pass on his attempted coup.
Christie is a rock solid alternative to Trump.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 11:12 AM (FVME7)

268 >>> Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 11:12 AM (FVME7)

Clown World.

It's full of Clowns.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:13 AM (llON8)

269 Hi Miley.

My wife is finally on board with keeping both cash and precious metals on hand.

Cash in case electronic banking goes south and precious metals if currency value is wiped out.

Which reminds me, I need to keep some cheap vodka and tinned tobacco on hand, Trade value should be quite good and there should be a certain amount of medicinal value from the vodka.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 11:13 AM (2YtOq)

270 >>> 269 Hi Miley.

My wife is finally on board with keeping both cash and precious metals on hand.

Cash in case electronic banking goes south and precious metals if currency value is wiped out.

Which reminds me, I need to keep some cheap vodka and tinned tobacco on hand, Trade value should be quite good and there should be a certain amount of medicinal value from the vodka.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 11:13 AM (2YtOq)

The "tea" made by soaking tobacco leaves is a great pesticide.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:14 AM (llON8)

271
If anyone wants a cute 9-month old Borzoi puppy, Her Majesty is willing to give you Diana, who woke her up at 4:20 this morning.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 23, 2023 11:14 AM (MoZTd)

272 It's no longer an issue because I have so many book store bookmarks lying around, plus endless scrap paper.
===
If you can find them under the all the tissues and paper towels strewn about.

Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 11:15 AM (4780s)

273 .... allegedly, since I haven't tried it myself!

If / when I do, it will be a garden thread comment.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:15 AM (llON8)

274 Part of my reading this week was Alexander Pope's intro to his translation of Homer. Loved it. Never-ending sentences with commas every few words can be both explicit and amusing. It's like finding your way through a word maze.

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 11:15 AM (7EjX1)

275 thanks Helena. I hadn't thought of that.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 11:16 AM (2YtOq)

276 Publish them yourself.

Look up Peter Grant's Ames Archive series, or for that matter the republished editions of old Western and SF stories by D. Jason Fleming.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:09 AM (llON

Heh, don't know if any of my stuff is ready to publish yet. One submission was rejected by a magazine and they didn't say why. So I don't know if my writing's crap or it just wasn't what they wanted. Although it seemed to fit their guidelines.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:17 AM (Angsy)

277 Thanks to all for the feedback. I'm leaving the story as it is with the action scene up front and flashing back. Sure, I see a couple of places in the ms. where I can tighten the prose a bit, but it's a mistake trying to do a major rewrite on something I think works at this late date (the contest closes on 4/30).

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:18 AM (omVj0)

278 so finished up Lucifer's Hammer...

a classic, we are if anything less likely to survive these days.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 11:19 AM (Lzpvj)

279 Posted by: Kindltot at April 23, 2023 11:07 AM (xhaym)

From what I can gather they are college notes and she was a clerk typist for her judge husband. She also never threw anything away. I have some diaries from an uncle that detail everyday life in Rural MI in the 1910's too. Some of the things of note are funny. How pink a bow was on a local girl or the cost of a bucket of lard going up a penny.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 11:20 AM (xRk5O)

280 129 Metal content of coins?

What's left? Are nickels made of nickel?

There is no silver in quarters and dimes. There is little copper in pennies.
Posted by: Chatterbox Mouse at April 23, 2023 10:10 AM (5u1+1)

Tons of zinc, right?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at April 23, 2023 11:21 AM (/xaUq)

281 270 Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:14 AM (llON

It is a balancing act, of course one risk is eventually they will make anonymous cash purchses an actionable "suspicious activity". The (idiot IMHO but I digress) kids being the CRS Firearms channel was busted for organizing a legal defense fund for a defendant and charged a process crime for the size of withdrawl. I am not yet to the point I think the entire financial system has been weaponized, but I am a lot closer than I was even in 2015.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 11:22 AM (Lzpvj)

282 Heh, don't know if any of my stuff is ready to publish yet. One submission was rejected by a magazine and they didn't say why. So I don't know if my writing's crap or it just wasn't what they wanted. Although it seemed to fit their guidelines.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023

***
That's one of the infuriating things about the biz: The editors rarely explain why your story "is not right for us." Unless you are really really close to their mark, and then they'll tell you and want to see the story again.* Usually, though, they don't have time for critiquing, and they send a form letter. It's not personal (though it feels that way to us). Everybody gets that.

* Anecdote about Larry Niven as a new writer: He'd had a story rejected by Frederik Pohl, but Pohl gave him some suggestions for a rewrite. He took them, then sold the story somewhere else. Pohl told him later, gently, "When an editor has suggestions, it usually means he wants to see the story again." "Oops!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:23 AM (omVj0)

283 Ned is an adulterer
----
Without going into spoilerish details, that is apparently...not the case.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at April 23, 2023 09:15 AM (bW8dp)

The books never settled the question, but I believe the teevee series did. Although by then I was done watching it. As for the other two points, I'm not sure how Jon is an "oathbreaker." The fellas to whom he swore his oath "killed" him. I think they broke the oath first. As for Tyrion killing his daddy, if there was ever a daddy who needed killing, it was his. I wouldn't hold that against him either.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 23, 2023 11:23 AM (URoVT)

284 From what I can gather they are college notes and she was a clerk typist for her judge husband. She also never threw anything away. I have some diaries from an uncle that detail everyday life in Rural MI in the 1910's too. Some of the things of note are funny. How pink a bow was on a local girl or the cost of a bucket of lard going up a penny.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 11:20 AM (xRk5O)

That's knowledge that needs to be saved. Have someone translate the shorthand. We never have enough information about common lives during history. There'll be plenty of books about political leaders and their policies, but nothing about how they affected mom and pop.
My grandmother had a diary for a period in the depression, I don't know where it is, but it covered their trek from OK to CA and what their daily life was like. I'm not sure if someone else in the family has it or not.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:24 AM (Angsy)

285 Book marks. If it's just a book I'm reading off and on, any magazine renewal card or similar will do and there is a good pile of book marks from the local used book store. For my 'good' books and where the pages will stay marked, I use extra heavy, acid free index cards. They won't stain the paper and I can make notes on them (in pencil, not ink).

Posted by: JTB at April 23, 2023 11:24 AM (7EjX1)

286 Ace Atkins "White Shadow" was a terrific read.

Tampa's Ybor City neighborhood got its first cigar factory in the early 1880s, when makers wanted to move manufacturing from Key West to avoid unionization. By the 1950s, Ybor was a nest of cigar plants, and home to the Sicilian mob, which considered Cubans a subspecies, and white crackers even lower.

But the town's crime boss was a cracker, Charlie Wall, by then in his upper 60s and self-proclaimed as "retired." He was brutally murdered in his home after a night of heavy drinking in his usual watering holes. The murder is the heart of the story.

It's a fictional weave around true crime, and gets the reader deep inside the cops (mostly dirty), the Sicilians (murderers), the Cubans (tough as nails, some in love with Castro), and of course, anglos, some crackers some not.

Posted by: Mr Gaga at April 23, 2023 11:24 AM (KiBMU)

287 I know, sounds crazy, right? But now I "know" as opposed to "believe" in an afterlife.
Posted by: Miley,
====
I'm sorry Miley, but I'd be more convinced if Tim was writing this.

Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 11:25 AM (4780s)

288 267 Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 11:12 AM (FVME7)

This, this is a republican I could damn with lies, calumny on motives, and work to defeat and feel good about it!

//Jerry Rivers

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 11:25 AM (Lzpvj)

289 Does a series nowadays, fantasy or not, *have* to have an ending? In Ellery Queen's Ellery stories, for example, and Rex Stout's Wolfe and Archie tales, each is a standalone story -- though some have callbacks to earlier entries. And an emotional effect on Ellery the detective (from being wrong and letting people die) affects his attitude in a succeeding book. But neither series had a wrapup or final ending.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:27 AM (omVj0)

290 >>> 287 I know, sounds crazy, right? But now I "know" as opposed to "believe" in an afterlife.
Posted by: Miley,
====
I'm sorry Miley, but I'd be more convinced if Tim was writing this.
Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 11:25 AM (4780s)

On the internet, how would you know?

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at April 23, 2023 11:27 AM (llON8)

291 How to read a rejection:

If it's a form, that means you didn't get past the "first reader" who is typically the lowest man on the totem pole at the magazine who gets the crap job of reading unsolicited submissions. If they bounced you that means either the story didn't grab them, it seemed formulaic, you used some off-putting non-standard style, you had obvious spelling or grammar errors, or it just . . . didn't appeal.

If you get a note from the editor, that means it was good enough to get passed up the chain, but the boss chose not to run it. That could mean it wasn't good enough -- or just that it was too similar to something they've run recently or have already slated for the next issue, or it just . . . didn't appeal.

There's always a subjective element. The main difference is that the first reader is actively LOOKING for reasons to bounce a story, so they can go on to the next one. The editor wants to encourage potential talent.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 11:28 AM (QZxDR)

292 Well, Lord of the Rings, is literature, not epic fantasy, and Tolkien had finished it all before I became aware of it.

But epic fantasy ought to be real easy to write. The titles, especially.

"The Mimpfstroink of Fnord"

See?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 23, 2023 11:30 AM (tkR6S)

293 I am probably going to force myself to read Kamau Kambon's book and then go to therapy.

https://tinyurl.com/Kamau-Kambon

https://tinyurl.com/Kambon-His-Final-Solution

Essentially back in 05 when I saw him on C-Span and he was removed from NC State's circle I thought he was a lone nut.

Given the last two years I need to understand the people the feds are siding with.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 11:32 AM (Lzpvj)

294 Geraldo Rivera@GeraldoRivera
Like Chris Christie, I believe Donald Trump lost the right to be president when he undermined our elections and incited the January 6th insurrection. Shocking how so many GOP voters are giving Trump a pass on his attempted coup.
Christie is a rock solid alternative to Trump.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 11:12 AM (FVME7)

The thing that astonishes many of us, is the extent to which people like Rivera are willing to make bald faced lies publicly, and I would argue, we shouldn't be astonished.

Whores are more honest that our media. At least whores give you something for their lies, these people only serve masters who put things in their mouths, that they subsequently spew at us, to our detriment. We get nothing. We get worse than nothing. We are irreparably harmed because there are people like Geraldo Rivera, and entire media empires hiding truth, with no one to hold them accountable.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 23, 2023 11:36 AM (WTJYG)

295 re Trimegistus @168, I think the Avram Davidson story you are thinking of is his 1965 novel "Masters of the Maze".

By the way, a lot of Davidson's work is now available on Kindle. His godson, Seth Davis, has set up a publishing house devoted to getting AD's work back in print.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at April 23, 2023 11:39 AM (2SWLc)

296 Late in the book thread, but since RFK Jr. is newsworthy (for now), I'm going to plug the book, "A Lie Too Big To Fail" by Lisa Pease.

About the RFK Sr. murder. The case is almost airtight. The only reason we still pretend Sirhan Sirhan killed him is because the Deep State seems to get perverse pleasure leaving their lies in the public consciousness, knowing the whispers of truth will never be loud enough to be heard above the din.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 23, 2023 11:39 AM (WTJYG)

297 "That's knowledge that needs to be saved. Have someone translate the shorthand. We never have enough information about common lives during history."

I'll look into it. They are safe for now. The school books from the late 1800's are cool too. It's all part of a halfassed, as usual, project of mine dealing with the family history. Started out as family tree project about 20 years ago and balloned into a mess. I have so much crap to go through. I still haven't opend my Grandmas diary. I can't bring myself to do it.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 11:40 AM (ZcZbG)

298 Someone recommended a book. Infinite Jest. I looked it up, and it's very, very long and it seems pretentious. That's a whole lot of pretense to fight through. Anybody here ever read it? Is it worth the time? Or should I pass?
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (oINRc)

David Foster Wallace.

I really tried to read it, but couldn't.
Don't waste your time.
Pass
Posted by: JoeF. at April 23, 2023 11:03 AM (mR6Gs)

I didn't care for it. Very clever and all that, but I think its fame is mostly due to the fact that it seems like a long affirmation of whatever was politically correct at that time. YMMV.

If you want a famous big thinky book, "Gravity's Rainbow", may be the gold standard.

If you want a longish humorous novel that a lot of fun to read and is thinky if you care to look for it but that's not necessary for enjoyment, may I humbly suggest my novel, "Wearing the Cat".

Amazon provides a generous sample if you care to sample before you buy.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 23, 2023 11:41 AM (RJQ8g)

299 Ace's new endorsement. Biden 2024.

https://tinyurl.com/4fshhz6s

Posted by: You Really Don't Want to Know at April 23, 2023 11:41 AM (W8S/J)

300 K do find the best reading time is the doldrums of the PET thread after checking in and the later Book Thread peeking in to see if can add anything or give a comment on something

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 11:42 AM (xhxe8)

301 There's always a subjective element. The main difference is that the first reader is actively LOOKING for reasons to bounce a story, so they can go on to the next one. The editor wants to encourage potential talent.

Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 11:28 AM (QZxDR)

The magazine that rejected my submission only said, "it does not meet our needs at this time." It was from the editor listed on the website. All I know is my submission was an open call. Apparently that's all they do. It seemed the style of stories they publish. I bought a previous issue and read all the stories. I thought mine fit.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:43 AM (Angsy)

302 re Trimegistus @168, I think the Avram Davidson story you are thinking of is his 1965 novel "Masters of the Maze".

By the way, a lot of Davidson's work is now available on Kindle. His godson, Seth Davis, has set up a publishing house devoted to getting AD's work back in print.
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at April 23, 2023

***
Davidson was the ghost writer on at least one of the Ellery Queen titles about Ellery and his father published between 1962 and 1967. Theodore Sturgeon also did one or two. Something about SF writers, those two anyway, made them good fits for the intellectual EQ detective story.

His SF short story "And All the Seas With Oysters" suggests that paper clips, wire coat hangers, and bicycles are all different life stages in the same alien life form. He points out that when you see lots of paper clips, there are rarely any coat hangers or bicycles around; if you see bicycles and maybe coat hangers, there are no paper clips. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:44 AM (omVj0)

303 His SF short story "And All the Seas With Oysters" suggests that paper clips, wire coat hangers, and bicycles are all different life stages in the same alien life form. He points out that when you see lots of paper clips, there are rarely any coat hangers or bicycles around; if you see bicycles and maybe coat hangers, there are no paper clips. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:44 AM (omVj0)

Aw crap! You caught me!

Posted by: Clippy at April 23, 2023 11:47 AM (Angsy)

304 In a bit I'll run off and do some chores, nap for a bit, and then I'll indulge in a classic B & W movie on YooToob.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:49 AM (omVj0)

305 re #302, Avram Davidson did two Ellery Queen books. The experience led him to include a less than flattering picture of the original EQ authors in his "The Reward Edward Papers".

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at April 23, 2023 11:49 AM (2SWLc)

306 If anyone cares, Black Rose's suggested editors has some dead links. But Book Puma has a price list showing for what they do, and it doesn't seem excessive. Joel the Writer is also still a live link, but he doesn't give prices without contact.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:49 AM (Angsy)

307 [Davidson's] SF short story "And All the Seas With Oysters" suggests that paper clips, wire coat hangers, and bicycles are all different life stages in the same alien life form. He points out that when you see lots of paper clips, there are rarely any coat hangers or bicycles around; if you see bicycles and maybe coat hangers, there are no paper clips. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023
*
Aw crap! You caught me!
Posted by: Clippy at April 23, 2023

***
Where's that "applause" icon when you need it . . .?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:50 AM (omVj0)

308 Someone recommended a book. Infinite Jest. I looked it up, and it's very, very long and it seems pretentious. That's a whole lot of pretense to fight through. Anybody here ever read it? Is it worth the time? Or should I pass?
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 23, 2023 10:37 AM (oINRc)

David Foster Wallace.

I really tried to read it, but couldn't.
Don't waste your time.
Pass
Posted by: JoeF. at April 23, 2023 11:03 AM (mR6Gs)

Wallace has another book, title is something like Remember the Lobster (I'm not going to look it up). It's a series of essays. Some are fine, but I don't think I finished it. I kinda got tired of his writing. He has a "style."

Or should I say, had. Mr. Wallace ended his own life, prematurely. Personally, I think that taints the work.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 23, 2023 11:51 AM (3jD8i)

309 I have so much crap to go through. I still haven't opend my Grandmas diary. I can't bring myself to do it.

Posted by: Reforger at April 23, 2023 11:40 AM (ZcZbG)

Reforger, if you're afraid because you might find out Grandma liked sex or something like that, have someone else read it first. Treat it like historical research, forget it's your family.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 11:52 AM (Angsy)

310 Avram Davidson did two Ellery Queen books. The experience led him to include a less than flattering picture of the original EQ authors in his "The Reward Edward Papers".
Posted by: John F. MacMichael at April 23, 2023

***
On the one hand I'd like to read that. On the other, I'd prefer to keep my illusions about the two EQ authors mostly intact, so I dunno.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at April 23, 2023 11:52 AM (omVj0)

311 Which reminds me, I need to keep some cheap vodka and tinned tobacco on hand, Trade value should be quite good and there should be a certain amount of medicinal value from the vodka.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing(2YtOq) at April 23, 2023 11:13 AM (2YtOq)

Medicinal - use the cheap stuff. You might want to get some premium booze for trade. I don't have any of that, not even a stash for us. I'd like some Everclear-type for herbal extractions.

It's weird because you have to have one foot in this reality and another in a Great Depression mentality.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 23, 2023 11:56 AM (Mzdiz)

312 I'm sorry Miley, but I'd be more convinced if Tim was writing this.

Posted by: From about that Time at April 23, 2023 11:25 AM (4780s)

He was never big on internet.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 23, 2023 11:57 AM (Mzdiz)

313 Happy Birthday Notsothoreau!!
Posted by: washrivergal

Seconded !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 11:58 AM (T4tVD)

314 Thanks Perfessor. I love that there is a place to discuss books other than woke bestsellers which is what my condo book club thinks is worth talking about. I am reluctant to read anything that starts out "based on a true story".
Have a great day all.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at April 23, 2023 11:59 AM (Y+l9t)

315 Sorry to go darkish on the book thread, the guy's name came up over at Insty and it relit my memory of him.

Writing a piece does not mean you are held in esteem by the intelligenzia necessarily, and not being published or put out front and center by electronic media means your views are considered unseemly to whatever degree or not marketable.

I just am fascinated by what views his department head was willing to tolerate until sunshine on c-span disinfected him.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 12:00 PM (Lzpvj)

316 Swa and I have our own ongoing book thread at times.

We have been discussing Agency. I almost did not read because of a review in Amazon about how Gibson had to rewrite after the 2016 election.

It is NOT woke but the Hillary fanboyism is there. Easily one of Gibsons top two books. It may be his best. He doesn't purposely throw the reader into the deep end having to struggle to catch up to his built world. A lot of action. And as swa said fills in backstory for The Peripheral. Some pieces of this book obviously got to the script writers for the series as some things from Agency show up in the series.

Posted by: blaster at April 23, 2023 12:00 PM (1hLWb)

317 Happy birthday NotSoThoreau, and happy reading all.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 12:00 PM (Lzpvj)

318 Off to slay the day. I'll be back later to critique your comments.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Sans-Culottes (except for the Book Thread)

(Shirley she doesn't mean mine !)

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 12:00 PM (T4tVD)

319 WE HAZ NOOD

Posted by: Skip at April 23, 2023 12:01 PM (xhxe8)

320 The saddest part of Sunday morning. The end of the book thread. Thanks, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at April 23, 2023 12:01 PM (Angsy)

321 Hiya Heidi !

Regards to The Artist formerly know as Da Cannibal !

Posted by: JT at April 23, 2023 12:01 PM (T4tVD)

322 william gibson's older material like neuromancer, that included more imagination and less modern day polemic, set about 100 years from the publication date, it ponders a not so cold war

david williams nee constantine, did an update the mirrored shades trilogy but it was very skydragon,

Posted by: no 6 at April 23, 2023 12:02 PM (PXvVL)

323 New bipartisan bill would let the U.S. Mint alter the metal content of coins to save money

https://bit.ly/41xU7xI

-
Yeah, debasing the currency always work. Well, at least it's a bipartisan bill.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? at April 23, 2023 10:05 AM (FVME7)

Well, that is stupid. The bill, that is. The currency is already as debased as it can get. No coins are made from precious metal anymore. And there is really no money in scrapping them. They say it costs ten cents to mint a 5-cent piece. Well, here is a solution. There is a lot of hoarded (or simply accumulated) change out there. I may have 20 buck's worth sitting on this desk right here. Have the Treasury make a deal with the operators of the Coinstar machines to give us plebes a 4% premium for every dollar in coin we feed into them. And Treasury gives Coinstar another 1% for brokering the deal. That gets them used nickels back into circulation for 6 cents, instead of ten cents for minting new, a 40% saving.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 23, 2023 12:03 PM (tkR6S)

324 323 Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 23, 2023 12:03 PM (tkR6S)

another indicator of a dying empire....

may as well start the fed approved special beads.

Posted by: sven at April 23, 2023 12:08 PM (Lzpvj)

325 Have a good one, gang. Thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

(Off to act like I'm working, or more likely diving back into some Elmore Leonard...)

Posted by: Just Some Guy at April 23, 2023 12:11 PM (a/4+U)

326 I used 'elevpod' and got into an unexpected argument with a colleague who absolutely hated it! I'm not sure why, we went around for weeks over it. He just bristled at elevpod. Elevator + pod, seemed fine to me, but...
Posted by: LenNeal at April 23, 2023 10:18 AM (JgsYr)

The "vp" succession just doesn't trip off the tongue very well. In practice, it would become "elepod", anyway. May as well use that. Could even make it a plot point, that "elevpod" was coined to describe the device, but users found the word cumbersome, and truncated it to "elepod".

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 23, 2023 12:13 PM (tkR6S)

327 30 The library in the photo looks like a safety-deposit box vault, or, a well-stocked comics shop.

Posted by: Weak Geek at April 23, 2023 09:18 AM (uIu2G)

I thought of The Matrix.

Posted by: a.moron at April 23, 2023 12:22 PM (F6Xpw)

328 Way back in high school one of my teachers taught us to take notes in block capitals rather than cursive. If you're rushing to keep up with a speaker, caps remain legible better than cursive, which just turns into a wiggly line.
Posted by: Trimegistus at April 23, 2023 10:48 AM (QZxDR)

I write notes by printing. My cursive is unreadable. But I print in both upper and lower case. Nice thing about printed notes is, even if very sloppy, one can usually guess at an undecipherable letter from context.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 23, 2023 12:27 PM (tkR6S)

329 Several months ago, this column mentioned an epic fantasy writer, Robin Hobb. My wife, who didn't like F&SF has become engrossed with her. I'd like to (re-) throw her hat in the ring of fantasy fiction writing.

Posted by: coarsehair at April 23, 2023 12:35 PM (lvDHa)

330 Any discussion of contemporary "epic fantasy" that doesn't even mention Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen is seriously deficient.

The series of ten books, all doorstoppers, was one of the most engrossing reading experiences I ever had, filling in a lot of down time while deployed. Bought the first copy of Gardens of the Moon at a PX in Tikrit, and started ordering off of Amazon as soon as I could.

Very well-written books that somehow, coming from a guy who never did time as a soldier at all, capture an awful lot of the mentality of soldiers down at the ground level. His treatments of sappers and fantasy-type explosives managed to do a better job of capturing the deliriously psychotic motivations and attitudes of the low-level combat engineer types. You'd almost think he did a lot of time in the Canadian Army as a Combat Engineer, or someone very close to him did.

Posted by: Kirk at April 23, 2023 01:24 PM (pVima)

331 I have three beautiful cross-stitched bookmarks given to me by my neighbor as Christmas presents the past three years. Last year's was two hummingbirds. One is feeding at a fuchsia and the other is sitting on a fuchsia branch.

Posted by: Zoltan at April 23, 2023 02:00 PM (sDFJU)

332 I like punch cards for bookmarks. Unfortunately, they've gotten tough to get.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at April 23, 2023 05:37 PM (iZEhM)

333 I thought I had found a source for unpunched cards a couple of years ago, but if I did, I lost the link.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at April 23, 2023 05:40 PM (iZEhM)

Processing 0.06, elapsed 0.0687 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0209 seconds, 341 records returned.
Page size 241 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.