Sunday Morning Book Thread - 07-03-2022 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

(click on the image above to see more of the inside - ht: Nemo)

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading (don't blame me if your results transcend the fourth dimension--ht: All Hail Eris). Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material, even if it's nothing more than the economic predictions of Paul Ehrlich. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants (ht: Weird Dave)...

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, fire up the grill for morning brats (with bacon), and crack open a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

Moron Nemo sent me today's pic.

Dear Perfessor,
Something that may interest you and our fellow bibliophiles: Renaissance Books is a classic used-book store that's located in Milwaukee's Mitchell International Airport. To my knowledge, it's the only used-book store in an airport, anywhere. Anyone who's looking for a good read to take on a flight will finds lots of good used books, not just the usual bestsellers. The sci-fi/fantasy section is especially well stocked (I found a copy of Heinlein's "Magic, Inc." there, which I'd been seeking for quite a while).
BTW, my nom-de-ace is "Nemo".
Regards ...

I think a used bookstore at an airport is a fine idea. Or maybe a "library" of sorts where travelers can swap out books for different reading materials. Not sure how that would work in practice, though. It's been a while since I've been in an airport, but from what I can remember, airport bookstores are very similar to the one depicted below:

THE DEATH OF LITERATURE (ht: Captain Hate)

Is literature a dying form? If so, what will replace it, if anything? Captain Hate sent me this article: The deracination of literature by Mary Gaitskill.

It's a very long-winded article, but the author makes several interesting points along the way. She compares stories to the human body. We see the exterior plainly enough, but we do not really see the underlying mechanisms that make us live and breathe. However, we know they are there. Encountering a dead body triggers a very different emotional response than interacting with a living person because we know that the animating force is missing. Stories, as well, have an "inner" force that triggers our emotional responses, even if we are not fully conscious of the reasons *why* we respond to stories in a particular way. Authors are often ignorant of the "inner" force within their own stories. They may not fully realize just how much impact their stories have on readers until they become major bestsellers. Who could have predicted Harry Potter would become the billion-dollar franchise it is today?

Gaitskill also talks about teaching literature to students today. Her students struggled with reading John Updike for a couple of different reasons. First, "he was sexist and backward in his racial attitudes." We tend to see this a lot these days in literature with authors being "cancelled" for having the wrong views. There was a major campaign against science fiction author Orson Scott Card several years ago because he dared espouse traditional views about homosexuality. Now, I've read quite a few of his books and I don't recall homosexuality being any sort of major plot point where he inserts his own views about the subject. It just isn't relevant to his stories. His personal opinions were just that--his own opinions.

Secondly, her students didn't like Updike because his descriptions of the worlds were very, very dense. The prose interfered with students' understanding of the story. I've never read Updike, so I can't speak to that, but it's possible that the students were woefully unprepared for dense prose because they had never encountered it before. We know a sizable fraction of students are graduating high school with subpar reading abilities. A huge number of minority students in particular are functionally illiterate. Worse, the are culturally illiterate because they do not know all of the great stories that came before them.

The last point Gaitskill makes is that people are being trained to be ignorant of their surroundings. They simply do not see or hear the amazing world around them, nor the people that inhabit it. When was the last time you went outside at night and just looked up at the stars? Think about how small our planet really is in the grand scope of the cosmos. Each one of those stars is vast in comparison to our tiny blue planet. Most of them have planets of their own, with weird and bizarre configurations that we are still struggling to understand with our rudimentary knowledge of physics. Who knows? Maybe an alien is looking up at the stars on its planet, contemplating the same ideas...

Is literature dead? No, probably not. As Books by Morons proves, we as a species have an infinite capacity to generate stories. Good stories with captivating characters, intriguing plots, and underlying themes exploring all aspects of the human condition. As long as there is one human being on Earth who can read, literature will remain alive and well.

Put the book you are reading right now up to your ear. Still your mind and listen...Can you hear its heartbeat?

++++++++++

(Who won? SPOILER: Not George R.R. Martin!)

++++++++++

BOOKS BY MORONS

Comment: No Books by Morons this week... However, about 250 years ago a group of men came together and drafted a superb document that is always worth reading this time of year. You may have heard of it...

The Declaration of Independence

This is more relevant today than ever before.

How many of us could sign our name to such a document, knowing that we really are risking our freedom, our fortune, and our very lives?

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

Thanks to everyone who recommended short stories or author of short stories last week! Lots of great recommendations. As usual, there's not enough space to list them all below, but I have captured your short story recommendations in another document HERE

I know the Horde tends more to SF and fantasy, which are not my genres, but I will put PG Wodehouse forward as a master of short stories - not just the Bertie Woosters, but the Psmiths, as well. IMO, the longer-form novels, with rare exceptions, just don't work as well.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 26, 2022 09:26 AM (2JVJo)

Comment: Hmmm. I don't actually know if the Horde tends towards science fiction and fantasy literature. Sure, a lot of us read it, including myself. But one of the things I enjoy most about the Sunday Morning Book Thread is all of the great literature you have read that's outside my comfort zone. I've heard of the P.G. Wodehouse stories, of course, but have never bothered to read them. I shall have to put them on my TBR list... MP4 makes an interesting point about the difference between the short stories and longer novels. Not all short story authors are well-suited to writing novels. Asimov, for instance, writes fantastic short stories, but his novels just don't have the same impact. Very few authors are able to maintain the same quality in both short stories and novels.

+++++

I like Larry Niven's Flatlander (The Collected Tales of Gil "The Arm" Hamilton). It's a collection of S/F detective stories based on an idea that as he says is "is terrifyingly and uncomfortably real." That idea being: There is a shortage of transplantable organs; people disappear, capital crimes are increased to solve that problem. His term for that is "organlegging."
The stories have all the pleasures of the detective story combined with a psychokinetic element thrown in for fun, all in a future with too many people and asteroid mining.
I liked this book enough that when my paperback version disappeared (or fell into my french drain; can't remember which) and I switched over to the Kindle, I bought a copy.
Posted by: yara at June 26, 2022 09:42 AM (hBsVD)

Comment: Another group of short stories that are foreign to me, though I've read a few of Niven's novels. Last week, Wolfus Aurelius mentioned one of Niven's short stories published in a pulp magazine in the '60s. Thanks to the power of the internet, I was able to find it and read it. Not bad at all. Niven is able to take an interesting idea and then "game it out" to see what the potential ramifications might be. I suspect that's what he does in this collection as well. And of course, thanks to the power of the internet, if we lose a book or it becomes too damaged to read anymore, we can find an electronic copy on demand for a modest fee.

+++++

I read Summer of Night and A Winter Haunting both by Dan Simmons. Summer of Night is about a group of kids in Illinois in 1960. It's like a Stephen King story (but way better). I would recommend it just for the descriptions of what it's like to be an 11 year old boy in summer. A Winter Haunting takes place in the same town in Illinois but 30 years later. It was okay, but Summer of Night was way better.
Posted by: prophet of the group W bench at June 26, 2022 10:48 AM (s37kI)

Comment: The only book I've read by Dan Simmons is Hyperion, which is essentially The Canterbury Tales in space. But I do enjoy stories about life as a kid in rural areas where there may be a supernatural or science fiction element that takes a group of kids on a grand adventure. Ray Bradbury was an absolute master of this, as was Clifford D. Simak.

+++++

Just finished Christopher DiGrazia's second Theda Bara book, The Stuff That Dreams Are Made Of. Enjoyed the first book a lot and this one as well, she's filming Cleopatra and a deadly mystery follows Theda and her sidekick Toby. Very well written dialogue and characters, enjoy traveling back in time to the filming of silent movies. There is a hint at the end the series might continue, which I would welcome.
Posted by: waelse1 at June 26, 2022 10:35 AM (pNeon)

Comment: As I mentioned last week, I always like to see Moron Recommendations of Books by Morons. Your feedback and encouragement is much appreciated, I'm sure! I'm also sure he'd appreciate an Amazon review, if possible! I just ordered me a copy of this book...

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (255 Moron-recommended books so far!)

+-----+-----+-----+-----+

WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

The Evolutionary Void by Peter F. Hamilton -- Book 3 in The Void Trilogy. Finally finished it! It took me a while to get through it (650+ pages). Life gets in the way of good reading, sometimes.

Star Wars: The Hutt Gambit (Han Solo Trilogy Book 2) by A.C. Crispin -- I'm going to start working my way through my unread pile of Star Wars novels...PRE-DISNEY, of course (most of them). They are good fluff material and generally entertaining.

The Stuff that Dreams are Made of by Christopher DiGrazia -- A very interesting look at Hollywood during the Silent Era of movie-making.

Dragonlance: The Legend of Huma by Richard A. Knaak -- A classic tale of chivalry and adventure. This is one of the most important histories in the entire Dragonlance Saga. It's also very good.

Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and What to Do Instead) edited by Susan D. Blum -- This is for my day job. We're hosting a summer book reading program with several of our faculty. We will be discussing this book, which looks at alternative forms of assessing students instead of assigning them a grade.

That's about all I have for this week. Thank you for all of your kind words regarding my Sunday Morning Book Thread. This is a very special place. You are very special people (in all the best ways!). The kindness, generosity, and wisdom of the Moron Horde knows no bounds. Let's keep reading!

If you have any suggestions for improvement, reading recommendations, or writing projects that you'd like to see on the Sunday Morning Book Thread, you can send them to perfessor dot squirrel at-sign gmail dot com. Your feedback is always appreciated! You can also take a virtual tour of OUR library at libib.com/u/perfessorsquirrel. Since I added sections for AoSHQ, I now consider it OUR library, rather than my own personal fiefdom...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 06-26-22 (hat tip: vmom stabby stabby stabamillion) (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

(HAN SHOT FIRST!)

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Book Thread!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 08:59 AM (RA08Q)

2 For Vmom!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:00 AM (Dc2NZ)

3 Fetched.

(and that 1st is for vmom who claimed it in the EMT before going to take a shower.)

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 09:01 AM (RA08Q)

4 Tolle Lege
Finished Robert Pies Russian Revolution
We are reliving it

Posted by: Skip's phone at July 03, 2022 09:01 AM (6UUEB)

5 Horde mind Eris!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 09:01 AM (RA08Q)

6 Facebook Marketing for Dummies

And it hurts my brain

I can only read about 30 minutes at a time!

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 09:02 AM (ex2Cx)

7 Good Sunday morning, horde!

I wonder what surrealist cooking is like?

*trots off to find the Dali cookbook

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 09:02 AM (OX9vb)

8 The last point Gaitskill makes is that people are being trained to be ignorant of their surroundings. They simply do not see or hear the amazing world around them, nor the people that inhabit it.

Hard to see "the amazing world" when your stupid face is stuck staring at your worthless 'smartphone' 24/7.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:03 AM (2JVJo)

9 Roy Thomas' Avengers ends, Steve Englehart's Avengers begins. Some panels are half captions. It made for chatty reading, but the rule is "show, not tell."
A change of genres is next.

Do I have a problem? I bought two Perry Mason books I have already read just because the stories are good and I like the cover dress. (Ballantine Books editions of the 1980s.) If I could, I would buy all the PM books with BB covers.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:03 AM (Om/di)

10 Pipes you stupid tablet

Posted by: Skip's phone at July 03, 2022 09:04 AM (6UUEB)

11 Those pants are fine. For me to poop on.

Posted by: Triumph at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (sn5EN)

12 Here's a link re: Dali's cookbook, with accompanying illustrations:

https://tinyurl.com/yp5v99bn

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (Dc2NZ)

13 Hard to see "the amazing world" when your stupid face is stuck staring at your worthless 'smartphone' 24/7.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:03 AM (2JVJo)
---
Exactly! That's one of the things she points out. We are being conditioned (on purpose?) to engage with our smartphones, not our environment. How many people are convinced that Twitter represents the "real" world?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (K5n5d)

14 Good morning hordelings. I've returned from vacation, during which time I only read three of the ten books I had loaded onto my paperwhite for get-away reading. You know you're lazy when you're too lazy to read.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (45fpk)

15 I think a new rule has been established - you should take a shower before entering the Book Thread, so you're fresh and clean.

The Book Thread is all about a sound mind in a clean body.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at July 03, 2022 09:06 AM (a3Q+t)

16 There is a hint at the end the series might continue, which I would welcome.
Posted by: waelse1 at June 26, 2022 10:35 AM (pNeon)

**blushes**

Thank you so much! And you too, Perfessor! I'm glad you both like the book. It means a great deal to me. And yes, an Amazon / Goodreads review would be most welcome.

The series will continue. I was up at 6 this morning writing 3 pages of the new one (working title: Ten Thousand Midnights). It takes place in 1922 and has Theda and Toby caught up in the mysterious murder of director William Desmond Taylor.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:06 AM (2JVJo)

17 What threw me about the Tolkien v. George R.R Martin video is that the guy on the right looks nothing like Tolkien but does look like George Martin, the Beatles producer...

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:06 AM (PiwSw)

18 J.R.R.Tolkien and George R.R. Martin aren't the same person?

Posted by: San Franpsycho at July 03, 2022 09:06 AM (EZebt)

19 The series will continue. I was up at 6 this morning writing 3 pages of the new one (working title: Ten Thousand Midnights). It takes place in 1922 and has Theda and Toby caught up in the mysterious murder of director William Desmond Taylor.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:06 AM (2JVJo)

Wonderful! I shall look forward to it.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:07 AM (45fpk)

20 And Crazy Sal's wine book:

https://tinyurl.com/59bf7pzf

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:07 AM (Dc2NZ)

21 Good morning hordelings. I've returned from vacation, during which time I only read three of the ten books I had loaded onto my paperwhite for get-away reading. You know you're lazy when you're too lazy to read.
Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (45fpk)
---
Hopefully you were having fun doing something else besides reading!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (K5n5d)

22 And I am still reading The Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell's description of the hate-filled socialists and their loathing for the working class they aspire to represent rings so true with today's Democrats, it isn't funny.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (2JVJo)

23 "I wonder what surrealist cooking is like?"

Instead of putting your cookie dough on the pan, you arrange them around the edge and let half hang off.

Posted by: Dali Madison at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (sn5EN)

24 The squirrel's pimp hand is not strong this week.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (EZebt)

25 Hopefully you were having fun doing something else besides reading!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (K5n5d)

Not especially. Rev and I both caught the covids.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (45fpk)

26 J.R.R.Tolkien and George R.R. Martin aren't the same person?
Posted by: San Franpsycho

They can't be, otherwise each of the main characters would have been abandoned in separate states of mayhem.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (RA08Q)

27 Idly flipped through Garrett Graff's "Raven Rock: The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself -- While the Rest of Us Die". Honestly, I'd rather roam the wastelands watching my mutating flesh fall from my irradiated bones than share an underground lair in the BidenBunker.

I would have loved to witness the highly curtailed tour of SAC that Curtis LeMay gave to then-candidate John F. Kennedy. JFK fumed that he was only getting the Potempkin show tour. You weren't read in, Kennedy! LeMay was not impressed by JFK. That smug little lace curtain Irish punk! Or that's how I imagined it. Like he'd want to bomb something into the Stone Age as a palate cleanser.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (Dc2NZ)

28 I am reading "A Pictorial History of the American Revolution" It has pictures and watercolors. (Of course it has text too.) by Rupert Furneaux. FenSon's college library was tossing it out and he snagged it. It was first published in 1972 and this was a bicentennial edition . Perhaps it wasn't woke enough for the current crop of librarians and academics. Nice book, so far

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 03, 2022 09:10 AM (FZ2cV)

29 it's always a good day when you get a mention in the book thread.

Posted by: yara at July 03, 2022 09:10 AM (hBsVD)

30 Last night's movie thread was very interesting.

TJM said:

So, let's start with the book by Phillip Reeve. I have literally no idea how this thing made it to publishing, much less spawned several sequels. It is, quite possibly, the worst book I have ever read.

And:

The fan base for this book seems to be really, really small. Who were they expecting to come to the theaters on the power of the book's popularity? Who invests this kind of money (at least $100 million) on a special effects laden spectacle with a fan base this tiny?

So, for those obscure writers and those trying to be writers, how does that make you feel? Are you discouraged because apparently utter garbage gets green lit for publishing and screen, or does it make you elated, thinking maybe some day you can get somewhere in your writing?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:10 AM (7bRMQ)

31 I retrieved "Bleak House" from the library this last week and started off by reading the introduction. That lasted about 4 pages and I quit. The author of the introduction evidently decided the best way to get her masters thesis published was using it as the forward to "Bleak House."

The author's introduction was much more concise and readable.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:11 AM (5pTK/)

32 Morning, book people! I'm back from working out, washing the car, and grocery shopping, and am not having breakfast. The video above parodying Tolkien and Martin makes me want to light up a pipe.

Perfessor, I'm glad you were able to find and read "By Mind Alone" by Niven. I don't know why he has never issued it in another of his collections; it's a very effective story even though it doesn't fit any of his series.

There is another of his early stories, his second pro sale, called "Wrong Way Street" that has very much the quality of a nightmare without being surreal. The kind of nightmare where every step you take, sensible as it seems, makes things worse. It's in his 1979 collection Convergent Series.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 09:11 AM (c6xtn)

33 Not especially. Rev and I both caught the covids.
Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (45fpk)

Sorry to hear that. Ae you doing better now? Will pray for you both.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 03, 2022 09:11 AM (FZ2cV)

34 Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:11 AM (5pTK/)

Introductions are a waste of paper.

Posted by: dantesed at July 03, 2022 09:13 AM (88xKn)

35 Thanks Fenelon. Rev is having a harder time than I am. Simply cannot get out of bed. Me, just seems like a bad head cold. Thanks for your prayers.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:13 AM (45fpk)

36 On the whiteboards ,in my office break room (that all of my 30 something employees had to walk by Friday afternoon btw) I wrote the following two phrases-

We hold these truths to be self evident

and on the other board

When in the course of human events,

Of the dozen or so comments- one person said it was some kind of psychotic break, one asked why I'd put up something from the Bible and the rest were dumb founded. One semi well informed post 29er said "I've never heard that in my life" before I told him what it was

cont

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:13 AM (cknjq)

37 I kinda liked the Mortal Engines books. it's far-future YA, so more like fantasy.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (PiwSw)

38 22 And I am still reading The Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell's description of the hate-filled socialists and their loathing for the working class they aspire to represent rings so true with today's Democrats, it isn't funny.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (2JVJo)

The SocDems really hate the working class. Look at licensing and how it shuts down opportunities to become independent. Look at the destruction of industrial education at the high level. We had kids building and selling houses back in the 1970s.

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (ex2Cx)

39 Do I have a problem? I bought two Perry Mason books I have already read just because the stories are good and I like the cover dress. (Ballantine Books editions of the 1980s.) If I could, I would buy all the PM books with BB covers.
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022

***
I love the Pocket Books editions of the '50s and '60s. Invariably there is an attractive woman on the cover, usually doing something cool, like sitting on a beach or perched on the railing of a beach house.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (c6xtn)

40 Several asked what it was.

Not one person knew. Not even a close guess.

Not one.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (cknjq)

41 40 Several asked what it was.

Not one person knew. Not even a close guess.

Not one.
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (cknjq)

Thank a teacher.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:15 AM (PiwSw)

42 The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 09:15 AM (ex2Cx)

43 Several asked what it was.

Not one person knew. Not even a close guess.

Not one.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (cknjq)

That's alarming.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:15 AM (45fpk)

44 And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 09:15 AM (ex2Cx)

45 That's sad WF. Maybe hand out some copies with their next paychecks?

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (sn5EN)

46 So, for those obscure writers and those trying to be writers, how does that make you feel? Are you discouraged because apparently utter garbage gets green lit for publishing and screen, or does it make you elated, thinking maybe some day you can get somewhere in your writing?

I do get discouraged, sometimes. I remember my agent (of years past) sending The Director's Cut out, only to be continually told by the publishing houses that there was no market for silent movie mysteries by a first-time author. But I also know that, were I shackled to a contract, I'd be trying to pump out a new Theda Bara book every year and I know that I cannot work on that schedule.

My ideal would be a variant of the way movie studios used to do it in the old days - they'd send scouts to local am-dram productions or wade through publisher's slush piles to find a promising actor or book to bring back to the studio and pitch. I would love it if someone would skim Cut[/] or Dreams and take out a film option.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (2JVJo)

47 Oops. At 32 I meant to write "am NOW having breakfast." I don't function well without a little food in me as well as coffee.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (c6xtn)

48 It must be disheartening as a writer to remain obscure when so many "airport authors" are raking in the big bucks.

Here are some writers who only achieved greatness after they passed on:

https://tinyurl.com/2tf3wsh8

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (Dc2NZ)

49 I just finished Red Horizens, Chronicles of a Communist Spy Chief that I highly recommend, written by Ion Mihai Pacepa. He was the highest ranking defector, at that time, of a communist country and immigrated to the United States in '78. His story is fascinating. He was literally a right hand man, the highest of advisors, to Romania's dictator president Nicolae Ceausescu and his ghastly wife, Elena.

The book goes into great detail on Ceausescu's stealing of technology from capitalist countries, and his favorite techniques involving "disinformation" campaigns and the placing of "influence" persons abroad to achieve his goals. I was particularly struck by the web of deception that can be created to achieve any outcome, just through disinformation being injected into the mainstream. Helped along by the press and false documentation. As Pacepa explained, disinformation campaigns can achieve anything. He said it was easy to do, especially with the leftists in America as they were gullible enough to believe anything.

He ultimately came to deeply love America, and in the end, died last year at 92 from covid. Fascinating book. Fascinating man.

Posted by: Lady in Black at July 03, 2022 09:17 AM (sVtYq)

50 >>> 13 Hard to see "the amazing world" when your stupid face is stuck staring at your worthless 'smartphone' 24/7.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:03 AM (2JVJo)
---
Exactly! That's one of the things she points out. We are being conditioned (on purpose?) to engage with our smartphones, not our environment. How many people are convinced that Twitter represents the "real" world?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:05 AM (K5n5d)

This totes won't be a problem when the destruction of the electrical grid reaches a tipping point in CA and other states.

Posted by: Darwin Awards at July 03, 2022 09:18 AM (llON8)

51 Not one person knew. Not even a close guess.

Not one.
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:14 AM (cknjq)
----------

I'm with grammie on that.

Which, by the way, Hi grammie!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:18 AM (5pTK/)

52 It must be disheartening as a writer to remain obscure when so many "airport authors" are raking in the big bucks.

Here are some writers who only achieved greatness after they passed on:

https://tinyurl.com/2tf3wsh8
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (Dc2NZ)
---
That's a good list. Yeah, sometimes greatness doesn't come in one's own lifetime.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:19 AM (K5n5d)

53 I don't think pants girl really has a Harley iykwim.

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 09:19 AM (sn5EN)

54 Finished Red Shirts by John Scalzi. It's mostly well written and clever enough. And it's way more than the initial conceit of what happens when the red shirts realize they are cannon fodder.

I am not 100% sold on it as some parts annoy me.

Posted by: blaster at July 03, 2022 09:19 AM (paGh3)

55 Perfessor, you make a salient point.

Anything more than 240 characters, including emojis, and, the younger generation loses interest.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (5pTK/)

56 That's alarming.
Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:15 AM

But, sadly, not surprising.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (ftFVW)

57 And yes, I do get depressed when I look at what's out there and is chosen as a best seller or a movie source.

But that's what alcohol is for.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (2JVJo)

58 @40 --

weirdflunky, that's sad.

I'm reminded of a scene in a Matt Helm story in which the sign and countersign between the Brits and Yanks were a phrase from the Declaration of Independence and one from the Magna Carta.

Having never read the latter, I would have failed that test.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (Om/di)

59 Try the test on people you know.

Ask or write out the source of "my phrases" and see what happens.

You might be surprised.

Not one.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (cknjq)

60 Hi blake!

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:21 AM (45fpk)

61 I just tried to post and it disappeared. Uggh! I am reading "The Pictorial History of the American Revolution" by Rupert Furneaux and published by Doubleday. It has prints and lovely watercolors, and text too, of course. This was a bicentennial edition. It was being tossed out by my son's community college library and he snagged it. Whether they were tossing it out because of no room or it wasn't "woke" enough for the current crop of librarians I do not know.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 03, 2022 09:21 AM (FZ2cV)

62 The Guilty Pleasure has something about frogs cooking frogs I think.

Those pants...now why don't you just drop them pants. Take'em right off.

I never understood how Jabba The Hutt could keep Princess Leia as a sex slave as he has no genitals.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 09:22 AM (R/m4+)

63 The squirrel's pimp hand is not strong this week.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at July 03, 2022 09:09 AM (EZebt)

"A pimp's hand is very different from that of a squirrel"

Posted by: Kindltot at July 03, 2022 09:22 AM (xhaym)

64 Been binge-reading some 90's X-Men comics recently. #300 and thereabouts: Fatal Attractions, Bloodties, Wedding of Cyclops and Pheonix, and Phalanx Covenant. It's essentially peak X-Men, with the roster and costumes that inspired the animated series. Some of the stories are great, some are a bit overblown, and some and just plain incomprehensible without an extensive knowledge of all the insanity that had transpired in the previous 50 issues. But in the end, it is all fun....

...The only downside is that it's hard not to think about what has been done to the current X-Men, and that just makes me cry...

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:22 AM (Lhaco)

65 Thank you, Perfessor, for that Epic Rap Battle. It is one of my favorites. It's right up there with Darth Vader versus Hitler.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 09:23 AM (ftFVW)

66 "Father of the H-Bomb" Edward Teller proposed that most of America's life should be moved underground to create a network of shelters, to include schools, libraries, and museums.

Ah, the imminent demise of life on earth. We forget the shitty parts of the past.

The book is very dense (in the good sense) and every page has something to entertain and enlighten the Cold War buff. I had never heard of Operation Sky Shield, a series of massive scale military exercises run by NORAD to test against a hypothetical air attack from the USSR. The USAF, the RAF, and the RCAF participated, with the Canadians playing the Soviets. The results were pretty scary: the official word was "99% effectiveness!", but the reality was that no more than a quarter of "enemy" planes were intercepted. I was blown away that they were able to ground civilian and international flights over North America during Sky Shield II. "Hundreds of NORAD fighters and SAC bombers took to the air to dogfight over American cities, as bombers tried to sneak south from Canada and evade early warning radars. Chaff from dogfights rained down on homes and business up and down the East Coast."

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:23 AM (Dc2NZ)

67 Good morning fellow Book Threadists and happy 4th of July. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at July 03, 2022 09:24 AM (7EjX1)

68 Weirdflunky maybe next time make it fill in the blank. Like:

Give me liberty, or give me ______ .

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 09:25 AM (sn5EN)

69 That Simpson's clip is one of my favorites.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:25 AM (PiwSw)

70 As an academic, I rarely read fiction, but I'm currently reading "Banging the Monkey" by Tod A. (vocalist/bass player for 90's also-rans Cop $hoot Cop and the criminally underrated Firewater), and thoroughly enjoying it.

Posted by: SomeAsshole at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (l6U1s)

71 I've *tried* to like Sci-Fi, but with very few exceptions, I just can't get into it. Especially written form. The one big exception is my wife and I both love the original Blade Runner movie, which was arguably based on a total crap short story. Also, I enjoyed The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe series, but that is a mashup of some reading and more movie. Tolkien I will watch, but never sit down and read.
Is it ok if I still post here??

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (7Fj9P)

72 I never understood how Jabba The Hutt could keep Princess Leia as a sex slave as he has no genitals.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 09:22 AM (R/m4+)
---
I believe Hutts are hermaphrodites...at least in the Legends continuity, which is the only continuity that matters (Disney canon is garbage)

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (K5n5d)

73 By the way, TJM, thanks for taking the "Mortal Engines" bullet.

Though, I'm surprised you weren't injecting heroin into your eyeballs about the mid-point of your efforts.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (5pTK/)

74 I've *tried* to like Sci-Fi, but with very few exceptions, I just can't get into it. Especially written form. The one big exception is my wife and I both love the original Blade Runner movie, which was arguably based on a total crap short story. Also, I enjoyed The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe series, but that is a mashup of some reading and more movie. Tolkien I will watch, but never sit down and read.
Is it ok if I still post here??
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (7Fj9P)
---
Of course! What do you like to read? We have lots of different readers here....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:28 AM (K5n5d)

75 I've *tried* to like Sci-Fi, but with very few exceptions, I just can't get into it.

Same here.

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:28 AM (45fpk)

76 Hiya Grammie ! Welcome back !

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 09:28 AM (arJlL)

77 I'm afraid I've been lazily rereading Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series. I love them and just can't motivate myself to read something new right now.

Also, I've been thinking about reading Uncle Tom's Cabin here lately. Heard the Warrant song on my streaming service and felt guilty for not actually reading that back in high school when I was supposed to. Mostly feel bad because I really liked and respected the teacher who assigned, but hey, I was a dumb teenager.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 09:28 AM (ftFVW)

78 Bah. Jefferson should do his own damn writing, that plagiarizer.

Posted by: George Mason at July 03, 2022 09:29 AM (/NCI4)

79 Hiya JT! Thank you!

Posted by: grammie winger at July 03, 2022 09:29 AM (45fpk)

80 Surprising that for the first time in a long time I did not read much of anything this week. I have been watching The Terminal List on Prime. It is based on a book by Jack Carr that I read some time ago.
I think they have done an excellent job of following the book and I find the acting superb especially Chris Pratt. You forget that he is a movie star and see a man, not a glamorous arrogant Seal. It is subtle with his hair style and clothing. You can see he is extremely fit but unfortunately does not take his shirt off.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 09:29 AM (Y+l9t)

81 Currently I am reading Liane Moriarty's Nine Perfect Strangers. This is the lady whose Big Little Lies became the miniseries with Nicole Kidman. So far so good. Not sure if there is a crime element or thriller component to it, but the backstories, and the narration by the characters as the viewpoint comes around to each of them, are quite good.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 09:29 AM (c6xtn)

82 74 I've *tried* to like Sci-Fi, but with very few exceptions, I just can't get into it.
..
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (7Fj9P)

What did you like? We may be able to offer suggestions for similar books?

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:30 AM (PiwSw)

83 My ideal would be a variant of the way movie studios used to do it in the old days - they'd send scouts to local am-dram productions or wade through publisher's slush piles to find a promising actor or book to bring back to the studio and pitch. I would love it if someone would skim Cut[/] or Dreams and take out a film option.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:16 AM (2JVJo)

Thanks. That leads to the question: who thought that Mortal Engines book was good, and how did they convince a studio to pay for the movie, while they ignore your work?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:30 AM (7bRMQ)

84 Thanks for the links, Eris! Would like to add those to my shelf; they look fascinating.

I read a book a few years back, had kind of forgotten about it, but I think I'm going to put it in the re-read list. It is "Toros &Torsos" by Craig McDonald. There is a gruesome murder, Black Dahlia style, and the author weaves critique of surrealist art into the story.

I've always loved art, and this book gave me a completely different perspective on surrealism, while satisfying my murder mystery jones.

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (OX9vb)

85
Lots of sitting around doing nothing. Re-reading Savage Grace by Natalie Robins and Steve Aronson about the murder of Barbara Baekeland by her son Antony, great-grandson of the inventor of Bakelite.

It's an oral history told by the biggest bunch of vacuous, horrifying people ever assembled. Little mag editors, authors, painters, art gallery curators, socialites and ladies who lunch, all backbiting and name dropping to beat the band.

The worst characters are the family itself. Two of them are dead, but the husband and father Brooks Baekeland takes the cake with stuff like "I was always free. I was always successful in everything I wished to do. But I despised success. I despised money and show. I laughed - a grave offense to those who cannot laugh! I thumbed my nose at my father and at the sheepism of Man." Then the brutal truth comes down from someone sensible: "a brilliant wealthy man who has never actually done any productive work though he made one expedition to South America and wrote an article about it.”

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (/U27+)

86 Guten morgen horden!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (/jQbM)

87 Recently pledged to/pre-ordered Hunter Ninja Bear on kickstarter, but I've got a feeling in the pit of my stomach that it won't get funded. You'd think that a comic book would be the perfect place for a story about Ninjas verses Indians, particularly with a veteran writer (Chuck Dixon) and artist. But the usual suspects have destroyed the comic industry so badly that silly-but-neat ideas have to resort to crowd-funding, and are seemingly failing even there....

But at least I can smile at George Martin being called a myopic manitee. I've seen that rap battle video a couple times, and ripping on Martin never gets old.

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (Lhaco)

88 Posted by: Dali Madison at July 03, 2022 09:08 AM (sn5EN)

Ha! Clever nic!

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (OX9vb)

89 I don't really like cell phones, but I have to say that my son reads a lot of articles (and not silly ones-because I ask. Soe I don't even understand what it is from the title) and even parts of books on his cell phone. If I've given him nothing else as a legacy he has gained from his dad and me, he does appreciate books and reading. He went to school with some kid who said that he never read a complete book while he was in high school, which I found sad. Apparently he's a smart kid-just doesn't like reding for pleasure.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 03, 2022 09:32 AM (FZ2cV)

90 "the inventor of Bakelite."

For years on BBSs and elsewhere my handle was "Bakelite".

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 09:33 AM (sn5EN)

91 Yay, book thread! I guess I'm one of those sci-fi centric authors, although I've since moved away from the genre somewhat. I may come back to the rest of Battle Officer Wolf (it's on my 'to do' list), but CHINA is taking up all my damn time.

So...over 64,000 words, which makes this the second longest thing I've ever written (Fall of the Commonwealth, book 3 of the Man of Destiny series holds the record a 75,000 words).

I'm in the middle of World War II, and my goal is to hammer out this chapter and dig into the subsequent civil war by the end of the holiday weekend.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:33 AM (llXky)

92 Castle Guy, I wish I knew when Marvel became dead to me.

The seeds of the abandonment began with Bendis' destruction of the Avengers. His New Avengers book did nothing for me despite the high sales and critical acclaim. And his Secret Invasion miniseries had a great concept, but the execution was so lackluster that I abandoned it halfway through.

As far as I'm concerned, current Marvel takes place in a parallel universe, and I don't have to go there.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:33 AM (Om/di)

93 The short story 'the black ravine' is a fun read - written by a Soviet Ukrainian back in the 80's. Free for download at archive.org/details/theblackravine the epub and mobi files are good to go but the pdf is a hot mess.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 09:33 AM (gx4Oa)

94 I mentioned the other day, KTE & I went to used bookstore we'd never been to. Well organized, lots of old scifi that gave me nostalgia. I was very disciplined and only got 6 books.
We'll be back.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (/jQbM)

95 I think they have done an excellent job of following the book and I find the acting superb especially Chris Pratt.

Hi, Sharon. I believe we were discussing it a few nights ago. At the time, I had only seen episodes 1-2 and thought it was slow, and you said it got better after that. I agree. It's very nicely done in ep. 3-4. I'm looking forward to the others.

However, as always, I find myself trying to figure out the plot twists ahead of time (at least I think so). I need to stop thinking and just enjoy it. Perhaps that's why I read less fiction than I used too.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (/NCI4)

96 Time for church! Have a good day all. Keep on reading, and praying, and thanks for the book thread.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (FZ2cV)

97 I've *tried* to like Sci-Fi, but with very few exceptions, I just can't get into it. Especially written form. The one big exception is my wife and I both love the original Blade Runner movie, which was arguably based on a total crap short story. Also, I enjoyed The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe series, but that is a mashup of some reading and more movie. Tolkien I will watch, but never sit down and read.
Is it ok if I still post here??
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022

***
There was a time, when I was about 15-18, that I didn't "get" written SF either. Then I ran across Robert A. Heinlein's collection The Past Through Tomorrow, and suddenly saw what it was all supposed to be about. You might want to try some of his work.

Tolkien is pretty dense stuff. I like Fred Saberhagen's Empire of the East and the Books of Swords.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (c6xtn)

98 I read a ton of sci-fi as a teen blake. Most of it is sadly dated.

For example, I recently read a collection of short stories by Philip K. Dick. Good grief, no idea why that man continued to be published, back when.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (5pTK/)

99 Wolfus, I thought "Nine Perfect Strangers" was great. The psychologist's unorthodox method to break through barriers was...trippy.

I liked how your initial assumptions about each character are proved wrong as you get to know them.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (Dc2NZ)

100 2 For Vmom!
Posted by: All Hail Eris

*Salutes Eris*

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 09:34 AM (/jQbM)

101 went through Kal Sprigg's (multiple, apparently; it's not the best organized, IMHO) Valor series. Sigh. Another series I'm in the middle of. I don't think Terry Mancour's gonna finish his SpellMonnger series, Andrew Wareham's gotta a couple ongoing, Nathan Lowell's Ishamael books. And his Wizard's butler (TBF, only one, which stands alone, but he's talked about a sequel). And probably others I can't remember. Gave up on Laurence Dhaner's latest series since it felt like he wanted to show his SJW creds too strongly I do like his older stuff though, Hyliss Family and Bonesetters. He's good at taking an idea (e.g., telekenisis, mind reading), limiting their effect (sometimes) and exploring practical uses.

Anyway, got a new (for me, it's been out a couple of months) book from Doug Boulter (Kindle only, apparently) and saw an Agatha Christie on KU, so, since it's been a LONG time since I read and AC, I picked that up.

Posted by: yara at July 03, 2022 09:35 AM (hBsVD)

102 Jabba may or may not have had genitalia, but he had a tongue that went on for miles.

*sighs wistfully*

Posted by: Leia O. of Alderran at July 03, 2022 09:35 AM (ySCnP)

103 Re: PG Wodehouse. I love the Jeeves and Wooster series, both the books and film adaptations. I bought his Anthology of Golf Stories, and was quickly bored. It was essentially variations on one story, and a handful of recycling characters.
The guy wrote a lot, that much is sure.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:35 AM (7Fj9P)

104 Jabba may or may not have had genitalia, but he had a tongue that went on for miles.

*sighs wistfully*
Posted by: Leia O. of Alderran at July 03, 2022 09:35 AM (ySCnP)
---
Need Brain Bleach! STAT!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:36 AM (K5n5d)

105 9 Roy Thomas' Avengers ends, Steve Englehart's Avengers begins. Some panels are half captions. It made for chatty reading, but the rule is "show, not tell."
A change of genres is next.

Do I have a problem? I bought two Perry Mason books I have already read just because the stories are good and I like the cover dress. (Ballantine Books editions of the 1980s.) If I could, I would buy all the PM books with BB covers.
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:03 AM (Om/di)

I think I've read the books you're going through. (Avengers Omnibus 4) For me, at least, the diologue and caption style of that era just made the books kind of hard to get into. But it is amusing to think that practically every hero of those books has been adapted into a movie or tv spin-off...

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:36 AM (Lhaco)

106 It is "Toros &Torsos" by Craig McDonald. There is a gruesome murder, Black Dahlia style, and the author weaves critique of surrealist art into the story.

That sounds interesting. The Dahlia case has always fascinated me. Too bad the DePalma movie was such a mess.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:37 AM (2JVJo)

107 That's a good list. Yeah, sometimes greatness doesn't come in one's own lifetime.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:19 AM (K5n5d)

But it keeps us in money!!!

Posted by: The Heirs at July 03, 2022 09:37 AM (7bRMQ)

108 *sighs wistfully*
Posted by: Leia O. of Alderran at July 03, 2022 09:35 AM

Ugh, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 09:37 AM (ftFVW)

109 arrgh. how could i forget AHL's Man of Destiny books. Loved them and he completed the series. (Maybe that's why I didn't think of them)

Posted by: yara at July 03, 2022 09:38 AM (hBsVD)

110 And I am still reading The Road to Wigan Pier. Orwell's description of the hate-filled socialists and their loathing for the working class they aspire to represent rings so true with today's Democrats, it isn't funny.
=====

Solidarnosc.

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 09:38 AM (MIKMs)

111 I seem to recall a day when one aspired to writing, "The Great American Novel."

These days, writing "The Great American Tweet" seems to be the summit of ambition.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:39 AM (5pTK/)

112 As part of my research (and because I was curious) I read Richard B. Frank's Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire.

This is not happy reading. It's not as bad as Bloodlands, but Frank does not pull punches in describing what happens when an incendiary raid creates a firestorm.

The thrust of the book is that the Pacific War ended in about the best possible way. None of the alternatives bandied about by historians were viable. Frank digs into documents that only became available in the 90s to prove that Japan was in fact going to fight to every last man, woman and child and that careful study of our tactics had given them a large bag of "dirty tricks" to use on our troops if we landed. Operation Olympic would have been a bloodbath.

The other alternative - favored by the Navy and Army Air Force - was to just starve the Japanese to death. The Air Force had mastered incendiary attacks and figured that if every town was razed and all grain supplied wrecked, the Japanese would sue for peace or die.

It gives insight into how military decisions were made as well. This is the definitive case for dropping atomic bombs and IMO irrefutable.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:39 AM (llXky)

113
But it keeps us in money!!!
Posted by: The Heirs at July 03, 2022 09:37 AM (7bRMQ)

_________

Oh, look! An undiscovered chapter!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 09:39 AM (/U27+)

114 "Are you discouraged because apparently utter garbage gets green lit for publishing and screen, or does it make you elated, thinking maybe some day you can get somewhere in your writing?"

Well, I am energized, because I can look at such drek, and know that I can indeed write better, and I have readers and fans enough to be reassured of that. That the NY-based Literary Industrial Complex doesn't recognize it is just ... well, they're looking inward, offering huge contracts to politicians for books that no one will ever read as a kind of money-laundering set-up, and keeping a handful of establishment authors going, even after death, by paying ghostwriters to carry on a series that is well past it's best-if-by-date.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at July 03, 2022 09:40 AM (xnmPy)

115 OK, think I will go outside and enjoy the day before it starts raining.

https://tinyurl.com/fhc5b

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:40 AM (2JVJo)

116 And yes, I do get depressed when I look at what's out there and is chosen as a best seller or a movie source.

But that's what alcohol is for.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM (2JVJo)

Do you think it motivates you to write more? Also, do you find it hard to write, or easy? I mean, do ideas and writing flow, or do you have to spend hours on a sentence or paragraph?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:41 AM (7bRMQ)

117 Pseudopods. It's a thing.

Posted by: Jabba at July 03, 2022 09:41 AM (sn5EN)

118 ...and keeping a handful of establishment authors going, even after death, by paying ghostwriters to carry on a series that is well past it's best-if-by-date.
Posted by: Sgt. Mom at July 03, 2022 09:40 AM (xnmPy)

...speaking of Robert Ludlum...

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:41 AM (PiwSw)

119 I read "The Statesman as Thinker: Portraits of Greatness, Courage, and Moderation" by Daniel Mahoney. It's a thin volume which draws the common character traits of men the author considers as great statesmen, including Washington, Lincoln, Churchill, and surprisingly, De Gaulle, rather than just power hungry types like Napoleon and Caesar. The key is "moderation", which sounds kind of banal, but is essential to differentiating the two types.

The book was okay, but the most interesting part was his description of De Gaulle. Yes, he was a PITA, but he had reasons of statecraft for doing what he did. It wasn't exclusively about his ego.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (/NCI4)

120 Archimedes, I still have the last episode to watch but still really impressed. It is hard to watch at times but that is because you see the agony of James Reese. I also like how they remind you with the flashbacks of how the other characters fit in the story and why they are important.
In a way, I like it better than the book. I read it a long time ago but the book has a lot of military description that I didn't care about at the time(I know more about guns now.lol) while this series just tells the story.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Y+l9t)

121 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Om/di)

122 I just finished The Lost Man by Jane Harper. I liked it. I have enjoyed all her books. My next book is The Lincoln Highway by Amor Towles. I hope it is as good as his last one, A Gentleman in Moscow.

Posted by: Quirky bookworm at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (EbJ6H)

123 It gives insight into how military decisions were made as well. This is the definitive case for dropping atomic bombs and IMO irrefutable.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:39 AM (llXky)
--------------

Chicago Boyz did a deep dive into what would have happened, had the allies invaded Japan. Great read, and, their conclusion; Well, Chicago Boyz titled the article, "The Million Casualty Lie."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (5pTK/)

124 I have to admit -- I did not have "discussion of Jabba the Hutt's No No Square" on my bingo card today...

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (PiwSw)

125 Currently reading “True Raiders”, by Brad Ricca. It’s the story of the 1909 expedition to find the Ark of the Covenant. Very interesting so far. Love those turn of the century Brits. Can’t wait to finish so I know if they find it!!!

Posted by: RetSgtRN at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (NVtgT)

126 An excerpt from my real-book reading this past week: 'The Roman Empire and the Silk Routes', which features a quotation by the Roman writer Procopius describing the physical appearance of Huns:

"The Hun haircut was achieved by 'clipping the hair short on the front of the head down to the temples, then letting it hang down in great length and disorder at the back.'"

So.....A mullet? Now I want to a movie/comic/whatever that portrays the Huns as a bunch of marauding rednecks!

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (Lhaco)

127 This totes won't be a problem when the destruction of the electrical grid reaches a tipping point in CA and other states.
Posted by: Darwin Awards at July 03, 2022 09:18 AM (llON

I wonder if, deep down in ther subconscious, they want that kind of dystopia so they can be freed from their devices.

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (OX9vb)

128 I read a book a few years back, had kind of forgotten about it, but I think I'm going to put it in the re-read list. It is "Toros &Torsos" by Craig McDonald. There is a gruesome murder, Black Dahlia style, and the author weaves critique of surrealist art into the story.

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 09:31 AM (OX9vb)

there's a whole series of those about the main character, Hector Lassiter. And they're on KU. (Add to TBR list)

Posted by: yara at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (hBsVD)

129 Hey, let's not slam smartphones. Without them, I don't read Ace.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (Om/di)

130 The thrust of the book is that the Pacific War ended in about the best possible way. None of the alternatives bandied about by historians were viable.

The atomic bombs used on Japan were almost the definition of a deus ex machina.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 03, 2022 09:44 AM (/NCI4)

131 121 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Om/di)

I just saw the beginning of The Last Jedi last night, where the Rebel Alliance had Space Bombers. Gravity in space? How does it work?

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:44 AM (PiwSw)

132 I haven't been there in a while, but the Portland International Airport (PDX) has a branch of Powell's books that may or may not carry some used books in addition to new ones. I suppose they might stock some used ones that are known to still be in high demand (recent bestsellers).

Posted by: PabloD at July 03, 2022 09:44 AM (ySCnP)

133 "...it's possible that the students were woefully unprepared for dense prose because they had never encountered it before."

Yes; that's called "learning."

It's supposed to be a challenge. Otherwise we would have high school seniors reading graphic novels and 4th grade level books...

Oh. Wait...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (XIJ/X)

134 AHL - last week you mentioned the book 'origins of the chinese revolution 1915-1949. Out of print but available to read for free at archive.org. Several edition can be found there - Open Library has one or two copies. And more copies can be found at the ordinary archive.org site texts and community texts for one hour checkout or multi day checkout.

On my paperwhite at the local cafe - clumsy keyboard!

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (gx4Oa)

135 After last week's discussion of short stories I started a list to be investigated, or re-read like the PG Wodehouse books. The next day I learned that Spencer Quinn, who writes the Chet and Bernie mysteries released an e-book of short stories. Good timing. I've read others of his and they are excellent. My favorite title from them is "A Cat Was Involved". Delightful.

Posted by: JTB at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (7EjX1)

136 I believe Hutts are hermaphrodites...at least in the Legends continuity, which is the only continuity that matters (Disney canon is garbage)
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (K5n5d)

That explains it. You would think Jabba would have kept Leia in the kitchen making slug sammichs for him instead of prancing around half nekkid on a chain.

Thanks Perfessor Squirrel!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (R/m4+)

137 An excerpt from my real-book reading this past week: 'The Roman Empire and the Silk Routes', which features a quotation by the Roman writer Procopius describing the physical appearance of Huns:

I just finished rereading that book, and really enjoyed it. In my daydreams, I think about what it must have been like to set out on one of those journeys. Wakhan Corridor here I come!

Posted by: Archimedes at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (/NCI4)

138
If, in 1948, Japan finally fell after a bloody campaign that cost 250,000 American lives and it came out that we had a weapon that might have ended the war three years earlier but chose not to use it, well, there would be a lot of politicians hanging from lamp posts.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 09:46 AM (/U27+)

139 Do you think it motivates you to write more? Also, do you find it hard to write, or easy? I mean, do ideas and writing flow, or do you have to spend hours on a sentence or paragraph?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:41 AM (7bRMQ)
---
Speaking for myself, YES. Bad writing is a huge inspiration to me. Battle Office Wolf was a response to all the awful Beowulf movies that came out a few years ago.

The Man of Destiny is 250,000 words of me yelling "YOU DID IT WRONG!!!" to George Lucas and showing how the Star War prequels should have been.

Vampires of Michigan is my response to Twilight, Vampire Diaries and every other emo angst-filled entry in the genre.

Long Live Death is a direct attack on the left's lies about the Spanish Civil War and my *still untitled* China book is directed against all the Chi-com sycophants out there.

I feed on bad writing. It is my fuel.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (llXky)

140 Someone mentioned "Chase the Wild Pigeons" here, and I just finished it. Great read. It's kind of a Huck Finn story, but with the Civil War raging as a backdrop. It is as politically incorrect as can be, and would likely be purged from the shelves if it had a wider following. It has wonderful characters, and captures an extremely complicated moment of our history.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (7Fj9P)

141 Well, Chicago Boyz titled the article, "The Million Casualty Lie."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (5pTK/)

Bingo! I have been ranting about that for years. The U.S. armed forces was an incredible war machine in the summer of 1945. They would have beaten the Japanese far more easily and convincingly than the supposition.

That being said...Thank God for the atomic bomb!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (XIJ/X)

142 Now I want to a movie/comic/whatever that portrays the Huns as a bunch of marauding rednecks!
Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM

NO! I already see too many mullets even without new media hyping the look to the kiddies.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (ftFVW)

143 So new bookless now, want to continue on Russian history, not sure if forward of backward from the Russian Revolution

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (2JoB8)

144 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Om/di)
---
There are a lot of shades of science fiction, so many that TV Tropes has a "Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness" trope:

https://tinyurl.com/n57zm6v9

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:48 AM (K5n5d)

145 Gravity in space? How does it work?

Artificially.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:49 AM (Om/di)

146 Can’t wait to finish so I know if they find it!!!
Posted by: RetSgtRN

It's in the warehouse; but, it'll be very hard to find.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 09:49 AM (RA08Q)

147 AHL - last week you mentioned the book 'origins of the chinese revolution 1915-1949. Out of print but available to read for free at archive.org.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 09:45 AM (gx4Oa)
---
Cool! I'm almost done with it. The author is really insightful, but he does buy a bit too much into the "Chiang Kai-shek was greedy and incompetent," line of thinking. It's hard to think of anyone else who could have done better than he did under the circumstances.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:49 AM (llXky)

148 I just saw the beginning of The Last Jedi last night, where the Rebel Alliance had Space Bombers. Gravity in space? How does it work?
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 09:44 AM (PiwSw)
---
And that's not even the dumbest thing that happens in that movie...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:50 AM (K5n5d)

149 Here are some writers who only achieved greatness after they passed on:

-
Some are born great, some achieve greatness, some have greatness shoveled upon them.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 09:50 AM (FVME7)

150 "Gravity in space? How does it work?"

Well.

Posted by: Jabba at July 03, 2022 09:52 AM (sn5EN)

151 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."
=====
Niven and Pournelle. Bear, Benford, and Brin. Enough real science to anchor the speculative world building.

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (MIKMs)

152 Some are born great, some achieve greatness, some have greatness shoveled upon them.

What?

Posted by: Maya Angelou at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (/NCI4)

153 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Om/di)

I've noted many SciFi books are travelogues with short vignettes. See most(any!) of Alan Dean Foster's works.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (RA08Q)

154 And that's not even the dumbest thing that happens in that movie...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:50 AM (K5n5d)
-----------

I remember being entranced by the Star Wars trilogy when they came out. The special effects were so advanced, they distracted one from the insipid dialogue and acting.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (5pTK/)

155 92 Castle Guy, I wish I knew when Marvel became dead to me.

The seeds of the abandonment began with Bendis' destruction of the Avengers. His New Avengers book did nothing for me despite the high sales and critical acclaim. And his Secret Invasion miniseries had a great concept, but the execution was so lackluster that I abandoned it halfway through.

As far as I'm concerned, current Marvel takes place in a parallel universe, and I don't have to go there.
Posted by: Weak Geek

For me, Marvel died progressively from New X-Men to One More Day, to Civil War. That's the point where it started to feel like writers really hated the characters, or the history of the characters....

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (Lhaco)

156 Well, Chicago Boyz titled the article, "The Million Casualty Lie."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (5pTK/)

Bingo! I have been ranting about that for years. The U.S. armed forces was an incredible war machine in the summer of 1945. They would have beaten the Japanese far more easily and convincingly than the supposition.

That being said...Thank God for the atomic bomb!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

And that's why there's no Million Comment Rule !

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 09:54 AM (arJlL)

157 Ah Renaissance. I remember looking through it while waiting for someone's flight to come In.

I remember the allergic reaction to dust I had afterword more however.

Posted by: Bete at July 03, 2022 09:55 AM (a0KPx)

158
"Chiang Kai-shek was greedy and incompetent,"

_________

China when Mao took over was in better shape than when Mao died.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (/U27+)

159 Chicago Boyz did a deep dive into what would have happened, had the allies invaded Japan. Great read, and, their conclusion; Well, Chicago Boyz titled the article, "The Million Casualty Lie."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (5pTK/)
---
Given than none of them were going to be in the first, second or third waves, I'd tell them to STFU.

Seriously, it takes some serious stones to call out Nimitz, King, and their subordinates as pussies. The Navy had intel that the Japanese were going to use training biplanes as kamikazes. They could fly off of short strips, go low and slow and radar could not pick them up until they were practically on top of the ships. They were light enough that proximity fuzes didn't pick them up.

A 'live test' by the Japanese blew the bow off a destroyer and the whole navy crapped their collective pants.

The real fear was they'd aim for the troopships (which was in fact the Japanese plan).

And then there were the shore-launched suicide torpedoes...

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (llXky)

160 Maybe Jabba being the business creature he was was pimping her out?

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (2JoB8)

161 I hacked three recent articles about woke culture and jammed them into epub and mobi ebook form and named the 'book' Progressive [in]breeding. Subversive conservatism! Do not download the pdf - that file version is auto-converted by archive software.

archive.org/details/progressive-inbreeding

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (gx4Oa)

162 I read "To The Last Man" by Zane Grey last week. I also read "The Bar 20-Three" by Clarence Mulford, a Hopalong Cassidy book. I read those to see how the classic western writers wrote. A bit more flowery than I expected.

I'm currently reading through "A Century of Great Western Stories" on the recommendation of Wolfus Aurelius. I haven't read "Sergeant Houck" yet, I'm reading in order. There are typical shootouts, a science fiction western, and a laugh out loud story. Interesting because my retirement time "try to write stories" makes me wonder if I can even do it.

Was a massive reader when a kid, and did some college newspaper work, so you'd think I could do it, but who knows.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (7bRMQ)

163 @144 --

Eeek, I already have half a dozen TVTropes tags open on the machine at work (for lunch break reading)!

That said, the site also has a scale for espionage/secret agent fiction, from Champagne to Stale Beer.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (Om/di)

164 For me, Marvel died progressively from New X-Men to One More Day, to Civil War. That's the point where it started to feel like writers really hated the characters, or the history of the characters....
Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 09:53 AM (Lhaco)
---
That's a very common trend these days. The authors tasked with continuing the adventures of existing franchises HATE the original characters and do everything they can to destroy them, in favor of "woke" versions of the same characters. It's idiotic.

No wonder the fans are turning away from Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, Doctor Who, pick a franchise...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (K5n5d)

165 I always associate the 4th of July with the Battle of Gettysburg as well as Independence Day. So I'm reading Shelby Foote's "The Stars in their Courses" about Gettysburg. I forget just how good Foote is at describing the scene and circumstances of the situation without endless footnotes and context. This is literature even as history. He drops the readers into that world and lets them discover the story as the participants do. It's very effective.

I also got out my good hard bound copy of the founding documents. Reading the Declaration is a refreshing and bracing experience. And so appropriate right now.

Posted by: JTB at July 03, 2022 09:57 AM (7EjX1)

166 Hmmm. I don't actually know if the Horde tends towards science fiction and fantasy literature
=====
Actually Prof, it's a bit of mirror time. I don't know about the Horde either, but you clearly lean that way, and hence as Cob, so does this feature. So naturally, it draws responses in the same area.
So it's up to us whose interests float in other seas to gird our loins and speak up, which many do in interesting ways.
Nothing wrong with any of this, it's the way these things work.

Posted by: From about that time at July 03, 2022 09:58 AM (4780s)

167 Maybe Jabba being the business creature he was was pimping her out?
Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (2JoB

---
Hutt culture is largely based on "gangster" or "mobster" culture, so yeah, it would not surprise me if he handed out slaves as "party favors" for his preferred clients.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:58 AM (K5n5d)

168 it takes some serious stones to call out Nimitz, King, and their subordinates as pussies.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (llXky)

Nonsense. Nobody called those men "pussies."

The point was that they were planning a worst-case invasion, and the odds were overwhelming that it would not progress that way.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:59 AM (XIJ/X)

169 The pants guy isn't a guy. The pants she's wearing serves as a lesson from Mother Nature.

She's a rabid porcupine with a ten gallon bladder of skunk juice.

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 09:59 AM (arJlL)

170 Maybe Jabba being the business creature he was was pimping her out?
Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (2JoB

Excellent point. I missed that one but it also makes sense.

Thanks Skip!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 09:59 AM (R/m4+)

171 The real fear was they'd aim for the troopships (which was in fact the Japanese plan).

And then there were the shore-launched suicide torpedoes...
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 09:56 AM (llXky)
---------------

The conclusions by Chicago Boyz were "The Million Casualty Lie" was government understating, by a wide margin, the actual number of expected casualties.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:00 AM (5pTK/)

172 It's not my motivation any longer, but a Clive Cussler novel was what drove me to finish and submit my first book, which eventually got published. The Cussler novel in question was Sahara, and I decided that if that pointless pile of . . . sand . . . could get published, I could, too.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:00 AM (QZxDR)

173 137 'The Roman Empire and the Silk Routes'

I just finished rereading that book, and really enjoyed it. In my daydreams, I think about what it must have been like to set out on one of those journeys. Wakhan Corridor here I come!
Posted by: Archimedes

What great timing! I'm about done with it myself. I just need one more sunny day in the park, without mosquitoes tormenting me...

...I've had an interest in those forgotten central Asian empires (Bactria, Sogdia, etc.) ever since I read 'Wolf of the Steppes' by Harold Lamb, and the 'El Borak' collection by Robert E Howard. Its just.....such a different world than what we normally get in fantasy/historical epics.

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 10:00 AM (Lhaco)

174 Bingo! I have been ranting about that for years. The U.S. armed forces was an incredible war machine in the summer of 1945.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:47 AM (XIJ/X)
---
Actually, war-weariness was setting in a big way. The losses at Okinawa were appalling to both Army and Navy. Domestic opinion wanted Japan crushed, but also wanted the draft curtailed. No one under 19 was to be sent overseas.

In addition, long-service ground troops wanted to go home. As part of the redeployment from Europe to the Pacific, the senior-most troops were reassigned to non-combat duties. This meant that First Army was going to be pretty green.

Meanwhile, the Japanese had learned from their mistakes. I'm not saying we wouldn't have won, but at what cost? And what counts as "winning" when your optimistic estimate is adding 50 percent more war dead to our WW II total?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:01 AM (llXky)

175 Actually Prof, it's a bit of mirror time. I don't know about the Horde either, but you clearly lean that way, and hence as Cob, so does this feature. So naturally, it draws responses in the same area.
So it's up to us whose interests float in other seas to gird our loins and speak up, which many do in interesting ways.
Nothing wrong with any of this, it's the way these things work.
Posted by: From about that time at July 03, 2022 09:58 AM (4780s)
---
I try not to let me personal leanings get too much in the way of providing content, though it will naturally leak through from time to time.

I'm happy to include content from other Morons who have different reading interests, but they have to send me something I can use as a starting point. For instance, the link Captain Hate sent me.

If you have a particular reading interest you'd like to highlight, send me an email and I'll see what I can do...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:01 AM (K5n5d)

176 @155 --

Civil War. Another miniseries that I abandoned.

That's also when I realized that Millar wrote purely for shock. Sold all of his Ultimates books and never regretted it.

And to think I was once a steady reader of his Millarworld website.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 10:02 AM (Om/di)

177 I think a new rule has been established - you should take a shower before entering the Book Thread, so you're fresh and clean.

The Book Thread is all about a sound mind in a clean body.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
===
Agree, but results in violations of the sans pantaloons rule. Air dry for the win.

Posted by: From about that time at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (4780s)

178
The conclusions by Chicago Boyz were "The Million Casualty Lie" was government understating, by a wide margin, the actual number of expected casualties.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:00 AM (5pTK/)
---
The Army was. American Caesar himself, who wanted to wade into the surf. If The Bomb hadn't intervened, the Navy planned to tell Truman they couldn't do it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (llXky)

179 Asking for Horde direction here:

Does anyone know where I should look for correspondence between Adams and Jefferson regarding the 'crime' of sedition? I seem to remember it, but have no idea where to start looking.

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (MIKMs)

180 I think a lot of what's called "science fiction" is better described as "fantasy with space travel."

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:42 AM (Om/di)

Star Wars, right?

Posted by: Star Trek at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (7bRMQ)

181 My reading this week:

Finally finished Jordan Peterson's Beyond Order. Speaking of dense writing... that man thinks in paragraphs. Paragraphs that take up an entire page. Worth it, though.

John Ringo & Lydia Sherrer's Into the Real was a lovely palette cleanser. As readable in quick bits of free time as Beyond Order was not, and while I skimmed over the RPG mechanics bits (it's LitRPG, so I can't blame 'em for those. The LitRPG fans probably enjoyed those bits), the story itself was amusing, and the twist at the end I clearly saw coming, but the protagonist's choices I did not.

Posted by: Not From Around Here at July 03, 2022 10:04 AM (wrzAm)

182
The point was that they were planning a worst-case invasion, and the odds were overwhelming that it would not progress that way.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:59 AM (XIJ/X)

___________

Casualties steadily increased from Saipan to Iwo Jima to Okinawa. I'm not sure it would have been a cakewalk.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 10:05 AM (/U27+)

183 I always associate the 4th of July with the Battle of Gettysburg as well as Independence Day. So I'm reading Shelby Foote's "The Stars in their Courses" about Gettysburg.
Posted by: JTB at July 03, 2022 09:57 AM (7EjX1)
---
The Killer Angels is a great novel about Gettysburg. The movie sucks, but it's a wonderful read. Highly recommend even for people who aren't particularly interested in military history because it tells the story of the battle on a human level.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:06 AM (llXky)

184 Regarding why I keep toiling away at the laptop when hacks like Dan Brown make millions from cutting and pasting paragraphs from Wikipedia and travel guidebooks into the same plot over and over . . .

The SF writer John Wright wrote a great little blog post about "the Book of Gold" -- that amazing book you read and never forget. It's different for everyone (and may change during your life). He posited that your book may be the Book of Gold for one person, maybe not even born yet. Write it for that reader.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:06 AM (QZxDR)

185 Someone recommended "Comanche Empire" by Pekka Hamalainen, so I finished that this week. It's a very thorough study of the natives of the Comancheria range of West Texas from the time of the Spanish influence (1750 or so) until they gave up the battle and went to the rez.
Interestingly, they were "raiding and trading" the whole time, with the exception of the period of the Civil War then it was "where did all the wipipo go?"

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:08 AM (jTmQV)

186 Back from a constitutional with the lively and athletic Mrs naturalfake.

Now, lessee what this here thread is all about.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 10:08 AM (5NkmN)

187 I'm so sorry I missed the short story thread. I can access the thread, but not the comments. Anyone else having better luck?

As for me, I write short stories for different reasons, though I rarely understand that until I'm looking back. Sometimes it's a way of getting to know a character before I write a full-length work. Some characters I can only handle in short takes--one does murder for hire and works in spas and hair salons to get close to her victims. She's scary, and I can't write about her often, but alas, she won't leave me alone. I also once challenged myself to write a novel in which each chapter was a short story. No idea why I did that.

Posted by: Wenda at July 03, 2022 10:09 AM (TK9+5)

188 The Army was. American Caesar himself, who wanted to wade into the surf. If The Bomb hadn't intervened, the Navy planned to tell Truman they couldn't do it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (llXky)
----------------

Truman also claimed he never second guessed himself about the decision to drop the bomb. I suspect Truman's war experience might have had something to do with it.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:09 AM (5pTK/)

189 Never saw Killer Angels, everyone says it's bad. July 4 should be Vicksburg day, 1,2,3 are Gettysburg

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:09 AM (2JoB8)

190 The SF writer John Wright wrote a great little blog post about "the Book of Gold" -- that amazing book you read and never forget. It's different for everyone (and may change during your life). He posited that your book may be the Book of Gold for one person, maybe not even born yet. Write it for that reader.
Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:06 AM (QZxDR)
----
That sounds like good advice. Write the book that *you* would like to read.

I scan through reddit's r/fantasy thread from time to time. People have some really bizarre requests for highly specific recommendations. They seem confused why no one has written the book they desire to read. Of course, it doesn't seem to occur to them to WRITE that book...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:09 AM (K5n5d)

191 The sudden end of the war in the Pacific versus the alt-history of the extension of the war. Post-war events in China would've been much changed.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (gx4Oa)

192 Forget those racist, sexist, homophobe, white male American soldiers, the atomic bombings saved far more Japanese lives than they cost. They were preparing to send Japanese school girls armed with bamboo into machine gun fire and up against tanks. As we are finding out in our own country, there is no limit on how crazy a country can get. Rational discussions on whether the Japanese should have realized that they were beaten simply have no relevance. They were going to kamikaze their entire country.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (FVME7)

193 Last week's theme of short stories inspired me to by a collection of Evelyn Waugh's works. I'm holding back on getting into it, though I couldn't resist starting "Basil Seal Rides Again."

Basil Seal was Waugh's anti-hero from his Smart Set books during the 30s. Waugh last featured him in Put Out More Flags, which shows how the Smart Set reacted to the outbreak of the war.

The current short story is about Basil in middle age, and it is a hoot.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (llXky)

194 ...he deracination of literature by Mary Gaitskill.It's a very long-winded article...
... The prose interfered with students' understanding of the story...

*******

you must also consider attention-span. My nephews run a moderately successful website devoted to video games (tips and reviews) and some sports-related content. They are very tuned in to the metrics of their viewership, and can track number and duration of page views et cetera. They tell me that when they post an article with paragraphs consisting of multiple sentences that page 'stickiness' (or duration of views) drops off precipitously. Their readers (heavily skewed towards older teens, 20s and 30s) will not keep attention focused on even a little wall of text. So they limit their posts to broken up sections with no more than two sentences in each block of text. It's tough to write Moby Dick in that format.

Even old farts such as ace's readers have that same tendency. There is a lot of stuff competing for eyeballs.

Posted by: Muldoon at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (kXYt5)

195 There are a lot of shades of science fiction, so many that TV Tropes has a "Mohs Scale of Science Fiction Hardness" trope:

https://tinyurl.com/n57zm6v9
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 09:48 AM (K5n5d)

Interesting read but not once were Niven and Pournelle mentioned. Hmmpphh.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 10:11 AM (ZSK0i)

196 there's a whole series of those about the main character, Hector Lassiter. And they're on KU. (Add to TBR list)
Posted by: yara at July 03, 2022 09:43 AM (hBsVD)

Yes! I've read a few of them. Craig McDonald could be a Moron.

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 10:11 AM (OX9vb)

197 179 Asking for Horde direction here:

Does anyone know where I should look for correspondence between Adams and Jefferson regarding the 'crime' of sedition? I seem to remember it, but have no idea where to start looking.
Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 10:03 AM (MIKMs)

There are the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, online hosted by Princeton, but not sure wherein to look.

Posted by: Not From Around Here at July 03, 2022 10:11 AM (wrzAm)

198 Oh, I am wearing a skirt today.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (/jQbM)

199 Never saw Killer Angels, everyone says it's bad. July 4 should be Vicksburg day, 1,2,3 are Gettysburg
Posted by: Skip

The Killer Angels book is brilliant. I think the movie is not bad despite the stupid beards.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (FVME7)

200 Jefferson on the Sedition Act:
If the Alien and Sedition Acts should stand, these conclusions would flow from them: that the General Government may place any act they think proper on the list of crimes, and punish it themselves whether enumerated or not enumerated by the Constitution as cognizable by them: that they may transfer its cognizance to the President, or any other person, who may himself be the accuser, counsel, judge and jury, whose suspicion may be the evidence, his order the sentence, his officer the executioner, and his breast the sole record of the transaction: that a very numerous and valuable description of the inhabitants of these states being, by this precedent, reduced, as outlaws, to the absolute dominion of one man, and the barrier of the Constitution thus swept away from us all, no rampart now remains against the passions and the powers of a majority in Congress to protect from a like exportation, or other more grievous punishment, the minority of the same body, the legislatures, judges, governors, and counselors of the States

I guess he foretold the J6 Committee!

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (ex2Cx)

201 Now, lessee what this here thread is all about.
Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 10:08 AM (5NkmN)

Jabba The Hutt's No No Square. Now you're all caught up.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at July 03, 2022 10:13 AM (PiwSw)

202 For Jefferson, my recommendation would be to inquire with U of Va, at Charlotte.

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:13 AM (jTmQV)

203 Their readers (heavily skewed towards older teens, 20s and 30s) will not keep attention focused on even a little wall of text. So they limit their posts to broken up sections with no more than two sentences in each block of text. It's tough to write Moby Dick in that format.

Even old farts such as ace's readers have that same tendency. There is a lot of stuff competing for eyeballs.
Posted by: Muldoon at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (kXYt5)
---
A generation of the internet has trained us to be "burst" readers. We tend to read in small bursts. I'm now this way. I have a hard time sitting down and just reading for hours at a time, but I used to do that when I was a kid. Now I read a few chapters here or there, then take a short break.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:13 AM (K5n5d)

204 I guess he foretold the J6 Committee!
Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (ex2Cx)
-------------

Want another shock? Read some of the anti federalist writings. A lot of what the writers feared came true.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:13 AM (5pTK/)

205 198 Oh, I am wearing a skirt today.
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (/jQbM

Obviously your are not headed to FORNEY, Texas.

Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 10:14 AM (ex2Cx)

206 Actually, war-weariness was setting in a big way. The losses at Okinawa were appalling to both Army and Navy. Domestic opinion wanted Japan crushed, but also wanted the draft curtailed. No one under 19 was to be sent overseas.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:01 AM (llXky)

War-weariness was not unique to America. And the Japanese war machine had already been seriously degraded, thus the reliance on civilians, kamikazis, etc.

Marshall calculated close to 900,000 casualties, but that was based on the Pacific experience without the additional support from the European armies, and maybe even the Russians.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 10:15 AM (XIJ/X)

207 Forget those racist, sexist, homophobe, white male American soldiers, the atomic bombings saved far more Japanese lives than they cost. They were preparing to send Japanese school girls armed with bamboo into machine gun fire and up against tanks. As we are finding out in our own country, there is no limit on how crazy a country can get. Rational discussions on whether the Japanese should have realized that they were beaten simply have no relevance. They were going to kamikaze their entire country.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (FVME7)
---
The civilian members of the Japanese government were trying to get some sort of peace deal put in place and the Emperor supported them, but there were fears that the military would launch a coup, potentially replacing Hirohito with one of his brothers.

It so happened that one of the most influential Japanese generals personally surveyed the damage caused by the atomic bombs and at the subsequent cabinet meeting he broke down and wept over the destruction. It was the decisive moment.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:15 AM (llXky)

208 Obviously your are not headed to FORNEY, Texas.
Posted by: rhennigantx

Are skirts illegal there?

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:15 AM (/jQbM)

209 A generation of the internet has trained us to be "burst" readers. We tend to read in small bursts. I'm now this way. I have a hard time sitting down and just reading for hours at a time, but I used to do that when I was a kid. Now I read a few chapters here or there, then take a short break.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:13 AM (K5n5d)
------------

I don't know if "burst reading" that really applies to AoS. I liken AoS to be closer to a bunch of curmudgeons sitting around a pot bellied stove, smoking pipes, and arguing about various topics.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:16 AM (5pTK/)

210 I am wearing a skirt today.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM (/jQbM)

Garrett...is that you?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 10:16 AM (XIJ/X)

211 Interesting read but not once were Niven and Pournelle mentioned. Hmmpphh.
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 10:11 AM (ZSK0i)
---
Maybe this will help:

https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/60/westfahl60art.htm

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:16 AM (K5n5d)

212 "How many of us could sign our name to such a document, knowing that we really are risking our freedom, our fortune, and our very lives?"

And what makes you think you haven't, in this era of "woke" and internet archives? Defend the ideals of America, and you are on the list. Bank on it.

Posted by: SDN at July 03, 2022 10:16 AM (o6RxL)

213 reeding is overrated

Posted by: REDACTED at July 03, 2022 10:17 AM (us2H3)

214 I disagree about the thread concentrating on sci-fi/fantasy. I find there is a lot of discussion about non fiction, military writing, biographies. Personally I prefer fantasy and escape from real life when I read. So, not every book thread is what I am interested in. However, it is certainly an eclectic bunch of morons here and I am always interested in what interests them.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 10:17 AM (Y+l9t)

215 I guess he foretold the J6 Committee!
Posted by: rhennigantx at July 03, 2022 10:12 AM

Gee, those dead white dudes were too smart. Erase them!

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 10:17 AM (ftFVW)

216 I don't know if "burst reading" that really applies to AoS. I liken AoS to be closer to a bunch of curmudgeons sitting around a pot bellied stove, smoking pipes, and arguing about various topics.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:16 AM (5pTK/)
----
How many of us just sit around waiting for that next dopamine hit when someone declares "NOOD!"?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:18 AM (K5n5d)

217 'Gettysburg' by Allen Guelzo is worth a read.

Posted by: dantesed at July 03, 2022 10:18 AM (88xKn)

218 I'm so sorry I missed the short story thread. I can access the thread, but not the comments. Anyone else having better luck?

Replace the "minx.cc" in the URL bar with "acecomments.mu.nu."

Posted by: Oddbob at July 03, 2022 10:18 AM (nfrXX)

219 How many of us just sit around waiting for that next dopamine hit when someone declares "NOOD!"?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:18 AM (K5n5d)
------------

That's the equivalent of one of the curmudgeons breaking out a bottle of Rye to be shared whilst arguing.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (5pTK/)

220 I like to watch sci-fi but I really don't like to read it. I can watch and usually read fantasy. I'll probably get flamed but I can't get through a Sanderson book...
I haven't been able to find books I can get through lately. I was a voracious read when younger. Would read several books a week, staying up all night lots of times. Now, nothing sucks me in anymore.
I do like the monster hunter series a lot but the f-bombs are getting to be too much... I'm getting old!

Posted by: lin-duh at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (UUBmN)

221 Maybe this will help:
https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/60
/westfahl60art.htm

Nice. Speaking of Niven, where did you find his time travel story of which you mentioned in the posting?

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (ZSK0i)

222 It's not my motivation any longer, but a Clive Cussler novel was what drove me to finish and submit my first book, which eventually got published. The Cussler novel in question was Sahara, and I decided that if that pointless pile of . . . sand . . . could get published, I could, too.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:00 AM (QZxDR)

Thanks.

So maybe a lot of books get written and sold as "revenge publishing?"

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (7bRMQ)

223 However, it is certainly an eclectic bunch of morons here and I am always interested in what interests them.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 10:17 AM (Y+l9t)
---
Same here! Don't let my own reading preferences dissuade anyone lurking here from sharing their own!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (K5n5d)

224 Today's politicians won't sign something if their social media standing is tarnished

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:20 AM (2JoB8)

225 Excuse me, Charlottesville, not Charlotte, (which is in NC...).

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:20 AM (jTmQV)

226 > The video above parodying Tolkien and Martin makes me want to light up a pipe.

There once was (possibly still is) a web page run by a "don't drink the Koolaid"-type pseudo-Christian group devoted to the thesis that Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and all their fellow Inklings were Tools of Satan.

Why? Because they smoked pipes. And drank beer in pubs. Ergo: obviously not real Christians.

Never mind that the Bible says nothing about tobacco use, and is chock-full of people drinking wine (wedding at Cana ring a bell?).

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (bW8dp)

227 John Ringo & Lydia Sherrer's Into the Real was a lovely palette cleanser.
---

This is currently in my teetering TBR stack! Maybe I'll move it to the top.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (Dc2NZ)

228 I also once challenged myself to write a novel in which each chapter was a short story. No idea why I did that.
Posted by: Wenda

******

I did exactly that with The Curious Disappearance of Seamus Muldoon. It sort of just emerged that way. Following my F-I-L's disappearance people would come up to us and speculate about possible theories (ran off with another woman, committed suicide, alien abduction, witness protection, etc). Each of those, from the ridiculous to the highly plausible, became the nucleus for a chapter, as a stand alone story within the larger fabric. Each chapter was essentially "What if...?"

Posted by: Muldoon at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (kXYt5)

229 Marshall calculated close to 900,000 casualties, but that was based on the Pacific experience without the additional support from the European armies, and maybe even the Russians.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 10:15 AM (XIJ/X)
---
Frank points out that when the invasion was initially planned in May, Kyushu was sparsely garrisoned and by August intel was showing a major buildup. The invasion was slated for November, and even the Army commanders were getting cold feet because none of the islands they'd invaded before saw this level of defensive work.

There was some discussion about canceling Olympic and shifting to Coronet (landing near Tokyo) because Honshu was less heavily defended.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (llXky)

230 Secondly, her students didn't like Updike because his descriptions of the worlds were very, very dense.

I've only read one Updike novel. I'm inclined to think the density was all on the part of the students.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (KFhLj)

231 So maybe a lot of books get written and sold as "revenge publishing?"
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (7bRMQ)
---------

Supposedly, Berkely Breathed created "Bill the Cat" because he despised Garfield.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (5pTK/)

232 Nice. Speaking of Niven, where did you find his time travel story of which you mentioned in the posting?
Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (ZSK0i)

---
Right here:

https://archive.org/details/1966-06_IF/page/n1/mode/2up

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (K5n5d)

233 Benjamin Franklin getting pilloried by that English barrister in the 'Cockpit' was a J6 event and likely affected Jefferson's thought process in that later essay.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 10:23 AM (gx4Oa)

234 My youngest is home from college and cleaned out some of the shelves in his room. Most of it went to the donate/discard box but I did save a couple of items.

One was Homer Price, by Robert McCloskey. He was an excellent writer/illustrator in the mid-20th century. Probably best known for Make Way For Ducklings.

Anyway, Homer Price is a group of short stories about a boy in a small town with amusing eccentrics and some goofy goings-on. What interested me on the re-read was the amount of inadvertent historical documentary in the book.

It was published in 1943 but there's no mention of the War at all. One story mentions Homer hoping to save up enough to buy a television receiver. There's also a whole story about a mass-produced subdivision of identical houses, which we tend to think of as a postwar phenomenon. Horse-drawn wagons were still common (and a ten-year-old could be trusted to drive one home after dark). "Comic Magazines" are treated as a silly fad.

Worth looking for a copy. I doubt many school libraries still have it.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:23 AM (QZxDR)

235 Is literature dead? No, but it is under siege. The unending deluge of the world through a screen (news, entertainment, music, endless selfies and woke demonstrations, alleged education, and more) prevents people from experiencing the real world. And that includes holding a book in your hands and appreciating the power of words.

There are a few young folks, like our nieces and nephews, who still value reading and that gives me hope.

Posted by: JTB at July 03, 2022 10:23 AM (7EjX1)

236 Supposedly, Berkely Breathed created "Bill the Cat" because he despised Garfield.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (5pTK/)
---
I think that's pretty obvious that Bill the Cat is a "Take That" at Garfield (and maybe also Heathcliff)

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:23 AM (K5n5d)

237 I say you can't beat Edwin Coddington's Gettysburg a Study in Command, a book I had for decades and pick up often starting at any chapter that suits me.

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:23 AM (2JoB8)

238 The attention span thing is real. As a kid I read a number of books by Dickens, Dumas, Verne -- guys who did not tend to write short and streamlined -- and thought nothing of it. Discovered Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov and others at 12 and for the next decade read almost nothing but sf for pleasure. After that, the dense prose and the doorstop books don't go down as easily as they once did. I still have a hard time with late Henry James and I think long and hard before taking up a book in excess of 500 pages unless it's a big short story collection. Got used to pulp-magazine based storytelling, and if I had it to do over again I'd go much lighter on sf and mystery.

So here I am, working my way slowly through War & Peace. Very slowly. Almost 40% in and counting...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at July 03, 2022 10:24 AM (JzDjf)

239 I don't find Updike particularly dense. I do, however, find him particularly boring.

As the saying goes, I Don't Care What Happens To These People.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 03, 2022 10:24 AM (bW8dp)

240 Right here:

https://archive.org/details/1966-06_IF/page/n1/mode/2up
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (K5n5d)

Sweet! That's the only Niven work I don't have a copy of.

Thanks.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 10:25 AM (ZSK0i)

241 I think that Niven story hasn't been reprinted because he basically gave away the plot twist when he wrote his essay "Theory and Practice of Teleportation."

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:27 AM (QZxDR)

242 I scan through reddit's r/fantasy thread from time to time. People have some really bizarre requests for highly specific recommendations. They seem confused why no one has written the book they desire to read. Of course, it doesn't seem to occur to them to WRITE that book...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:09 AM (K5n5d)

Ah, that's the thing. "Can" I write. Only someone else can tell me that, I can't be sure.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:27 AM (7bRMQ)

243 Supposedly, Berkely Breathed created "Bill the Cat" because he despised Garfield.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:22 AM (5pTK/)
--

I think he wanted to create a loathsome creature that would be totally unmarketable as a suction-cupped plushy to the kiddies. And yet, somebody did make plush BilltheCats.

Whenever I think of BTC, I think of him disconsolate after his breakup with Jeane Kirkpatrick, crying as he fired off his machine gun from the rooftop. *sniff*

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Analog Hipster at July 03, 2022 10:27 AM (Dc2NZ)

244 I read a fair amount of sci-fi, but I like to take breaks from it. I came across a book in my kindle library (probably a freebie I picked up sometime) called Disaster Inc, by Caimh McDonnell. An Irish detective in New York gets into all sorts of trouble. A fun read, it actually made me laugh out loud a few times.

Posted by: DIY Daddio at July 03, 2022 10:28 AM (RJscS)

245 There was some discussion about canceling Olympic and shifting to Coronet (landing near Tokyo) because Honshu was less heavily defended.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (llXky)

There was also planning for the use of poison gas in Olympic!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 10:28 AM (XIJ/X)

246 Books I've read or am reading based on recommendations from here. Thank you.

The Screwtape Letters
The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich (basically the history of socialism going back to the 13th century. Unbelievably rich in detail and reads like a novel)
Machiavelli or the Demonic Confusion by Olava de Carvalho (the great Brazilian philosopher recently passed away). I would love to read more of Carvalho but I can't find translations from Spanish).

I tried reading Jurassic Park for entertainment. I gave up after the 10th reiteration of "Chaos Theory" and the pedestrian characterizations and dialogue. But I can't fault his incredible research.

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:28 AM (H8QX8)

247 In yesterday's TJM movie thread he mentions the "shrike." But his shrike is not the shrike made famous in Dan Simmon's four book Hyperion Cantos.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 10:29 AM (gx4Oa)

248 About Updike.

I've read some of his stuff. Mostly, because he was touted as a great writer. I didn't really find any of it compelling. But, yeah, he can write. Still, he's a writer whose books died with his death.

His best book, IMO, is "The Witches of Eastwick", which is a very simple, moral tale told well.

The devil comes to Eastwick, works his wiles on three women, tempts then into committing murder. His job done, their souls damned. The devil goes away.

The funny thing is that Hollywood treated this story as an ode of women's lib and the power of the feminine.

Nope. In the same way, H'wood hailed "The Witch" as an ode to blahblahblah. Same story basically. Devil destroys a family. Tempts the eldest daughter into damnation, off she goes to commit evil.

Anywho, if you're going to read Updike, read TWoE.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 10:29 AM (5NkmN)

249 I'm currently reading How To Dismantle A Corrupt Tyranny by We're Going To Kick Their Ass.

I'll let you know how it ends.

Posted by: Jak Sucio at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM (jvt6t)

250 Tolkien I will watch, but never sit down and read.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 03, 2022 09:27 AM (7Fj9P)

You gotta be into reading about how the sun hits the leaves, and how the leave falls from the tree, and how a small rock rolls over the leave as it hits the ground, and how the dirt feels about having a small rock roll over it, and then go into the family history of the rock, and ooh there's the wind and how it fucked the leave over by blowing it into the path of the rolling rock, and on and on and on. I read LOTR, and it cured me from reading for a very long time.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM (VwHCD)

251 Why? Because they smoked pipes. And drank beer in pubs. Ergo: obviously not real Christians.

Never mind that the Bible says nothing about tobacco use, and is chock-full of people drinking wine (wedding at Cana ring a bell?).

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 03, 2022 10:21 AM (bW8dp)
---
There is a strain of evangelical Christianity that has pronounced an anathema against Tolkien.

This article is an amusing look at it. Remove the space.

https://www.firstthings.com/ article/2019/03/the-art-of-spiritual-warfare

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM (llXky)

252 I's like a sofcovered copy of that blnde so I can take her shoe shopping.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 10:31 AM (XTdJ4)

253 You gotta be into reading about how the sun hits the leaves, and how the leave falls from the tree, and how a small rock rolls over the leave as it hits the ground, and how the dirt feels about having a small rock roll over it, and then go into the family history of the rock, and ooh there's the wind and how it fucked the leave over by blowing it into the path of the rolling rock, and on and on and on. I read LOTR, and it cured me from reading for a very long time.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM (VwHCD)
---------------

Yeah, that guy!

Posted by: Victor Hugo at July 03, 2022 10:31 AM (5pTK/)

254 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 10:31 AM (Zz0t1)

255 Anywho, if you're going to read Updike, read TWoE.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 10:29 AM (5NkmN)

Agreed...It was a good book. His other stuff is good too; the guy worked hard at his craft. But I wonder why he was hailed as a great writer.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 10:32 AM (XIJ/X)

256 "Never mind that the Bible says nothing about tobacco use..."

Genesis I the Lord gave to Adam and Eve every plant which bears fruit.

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:32 AM (jTmQV)

257 "I didn't really find any of it [Updike] compelling. But, yeah, he can write. Still, he's a writer whose books died with his death.
Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 10:29 AM (5NkmN)

One of the best short pieces I ever read was Updike's ode to the Boston & Maine commuter rail line from Ipswich to Boston. He was a beautiful writer. But I agree about his novels.

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:33 AM (H8QX8)

258 I am reading "Hell Spawn: A Catholic Action Horror Novel" by one Declan Finn and I'm fairly sure I'm going to read more. The hero seems to be a member of Opus
Dei and quite a solid believer and an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion: an all-round good guy. Bonus: his helpful psychiatrist and possible exorcist friend is a Dominican friar which is AWESOME: I belong to a Dominican parish and you can't beat them for intelligence, knowledge of scripture and church doctrine and their ability to teach. I'm just on page 91 but I feel sure there will be more of this series for me.

Posted by: Tonestaple at July 03, 2022 10:33 AM (3qAOE)

259 Re-read A Long Dark Te-Time for the Soul, again, yesterday.

The 1st 3 Chapters of that one are some of Adam's best, imo.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 10:33 AM (XTdJ4)

260 Even old farts such as ace's readers have that same tendency. There is a lot of stuff competing for eyeballs.

Posted by: Muldoon at July 03, 2022 10:10 AM (kXYt5)

tl:dr

kan u cndnse

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:33 AM (7bRMQ)

261 There's also a whole story about a mass-produced subdivision of identical houses, which we tend to think of as a postwar phenomenon.

-
You used to be able to buy mail order houses from Sears.

The Sears mail order homes: One of the first lines of do-it-yourself house kits produced from 1906 to 1940

https://bit.ly/3R7kllD

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:34 AM (FVME7)

262 I would argue if you read not reading Tolkien is a tragic mistake

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:34 AM (2JoB8)

263 Homer Price. I read that oh some 29+ and a score years ago. I had forgotten completely about it though and should revisit.

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (sn5EN)

264
The point was that they were planning a worst-case invasion, and the odds were overwhelming that it would not progress that way.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 09:59 AM (XIJ/X)

___________

Casualties steadily increased from Saipan to Iwo Jima to Okinawa. I'm not sure it would have been a cakewalk.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at July 03, 2022 10:05 AM (/U27+)

IMHO, I think Truman wanted to wrap up a victory before Russia got fully involved. Stalin had no qualms about spending lives and blood to gain territory. Hence the atomic gambit.

Buy the time WWII was ending, I think the US was fully aware that Stalin was as much or more of an enemy than Japan.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (Qhnrt)

265 Harris poll has Brandon at 38% approval. And in the same poll thr generic ballot is a tie. Can the Rs really fuck up this mid term gimme?

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (3vQN0)

266 The Sears mail order homes: One of the first lines of do-it-yourself house kits produced from 1906 to 1940

https://bit.ly/3R7kllD
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:34 AM (FVME7)
-----------

some of those old Sears homes were darn nice.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (5pTK/)

267 I read LOTR, and it cured me from reading for a very long time.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM

I had to start LotR three times before I could make it all the way through as a teen. Once I made it past the birthday party and years long wait to leave the Shire, getting to some of the payoff sections in Fellowship I was hooked. Tolkien is definitely not a concise writer, but eventually I got into the flow and the extra descriptions didn't weigh me down. I lover the story, but yeah, I've got to be ready to commit to the long haul when I decide to reread.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 10:36 AM (ftFVW)

268 So maybe a lot of books get written and sold as "revenge publishing?"

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:19 AM (7bRMQ)
---
No, I'd say it's part of the creative give-and-take that happens. Someone puts out an imperfect idea and someone else refines it, which is pretty much how humans react to each other.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (llXky)

269 I would argue if you read not reading Tolkien is a tragic mistake
Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:34 AM (2JoB

---
He's not for everyone...I would much prefer people enjoy reading for its own sake, instead of trying to convince them to read something they aren't much interested in.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (K5n5d)

270 Can the Rs really fuck up this mid term gimme?
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (3vQN0)

Let me count the ways. Anyway, at best they'll play ball control and do nothing with their majority anyway. Fear rules them.

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (H8QX8)

271 I read the LoTR books as a kid, because that's what fantasyland shit is written for.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (Zz0t1)

272 Oh, I am wearing a skirt today.
=====

vmom - It is a KILT. We must honor those with different views. /s

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 10:38 AM (MIKMs)

273 Updike is also a great example of working your connections. His mother wrote for the New Yorker, and then John started out there. If your career starts at the New Yorker, you really have to work hard NOT to be successful.

Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022 10:38 AM (QZxDR)

274 You should watch Jordan Peterson on You Tube talking about his Twitter ban. He is practically spitting out pronouns and shows the absurdity of what the Woke are demanding.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at July 03, 2022 10:38 AM (YynYJ)

275 @222 --

Robert Asprin said, "You write your first Thieves' World (a shared universe) story for money -- and all the others for revenge!"

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (Om/di)

276 Let me count the ways. Anyway, at best they'll play ball control and do nothing with their majority anyway. Fear rules them.
Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (H8QX

-----------

PDT is doing the best he can to remodel the GOP. If he's successful, things may work out.

Accent on the "may."

SCOTUS says it's possible.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (5pTK/)

277 I think that Niven story hasn't been reprinted because he basically gave away the plot twist when he wrote his essay "Theory and Practice of Teleportation."
Posted by: Trimegistus at July 03, 2022

***
That essay, though, mentions a lot of his other stories which have been reprinted. The basic concept, that the law of conservation of momentum would apply to teleportation, is an intellectual idea. The illustration of it in "By Mind Alone" packs an emotional wallop -- the kind of thing LN has become less interested in, seems to me, in recent years.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (c6xtn)

278 I've wondered what it would be like to see my books on screen (I think the Sequoyah series would work well for TV/streaming) I would rather it be done well or not at all. That's my baby we're talking about!

Most authors have goals, yes, but they aren't always the same. Churned-out potboilers sell well, yes, but who remembers them a week later? My personal goal for my writing is for it to be re-readable

That the story sticks in the reader's head. Maybe even becomes the comfort read that you go to even though you already know how it ends... and that my books are read long after I'm gone. That's my goal.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (BbSpR)

279 Time to make the dog food, then park myself on the porch and finish my current read.

Have a great day, horde!

Posted by: April--dash my lace wigs! at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (OX9vb)

280 Next up, I think I will do Churchill's 4 volumes on the History of the English speaking peoples.

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (jTmQV)

281 You gotta be into reading about how the sun hits the leaves, and how the leave falls from the tree, and how a small rock rolls over the leave as it hits the ground, and how the dirt feels about having a small rock roll over it, and then go into the family history of the rock, and ooh there's the wind and how it fucked the leave over by blowing it into the path of the rolling rock, and on and on and on. I read LOTR, and it cured me from reading for a very long time.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:30 AM (VwHCD)
---
Tolkien is one of the most efficient prose stylists out there. If you compare him to other fantasy writers in particular, his words are very well chosen and he says just enough to let you fill in the details.

The opening portion of the book is a throwback to the style of The Hobbit, so it has child-like elements in it, but once you get out of the Shire, it picks up. The battles are amazing.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (llXky)

282 Someone puts out an imperfect idea and someone else refines it, which is pretty much how humans react to each other.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:37 AM (llXky)

And snarks on it.

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (4I/2K)

283 Today would've been my mother's 76th birthday.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (Zz0t1)

284 You gotta be into reading about how the sun hits the leaves, and how the leave falls from the tree, and how a small rock rolls over the leave as it hits the ground, and how the dirt feels about having a small rock roll over it, and then go into the family history of the rock, and ooh there's the wind and how it fucked the leave over by blowing it into the path of the rolling rock, and on and on and on. I read LOTR, and it cured me from reading for a very long time.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division

If I recall correctly, it was James A. Michener in his novel Centennial who begins with hot dinosaur sex before he.settles down to talking about the Indians and the pioneers.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (FVME7)

285 speaking of twatters, is Musk still buying it?

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:42 AM (3vQN0)

286 Most authors have goals, yes, but they aren't always the same. Churned-out potboilers sell well, yes, but who remembers them a week later? My personal goal for my writing is for it to be re-readable That the story sticks in the reader's head. Maybe even becomes the comfort read that you go to even though you already know how it ends... and that my books are read long after I'm gone. That's my goal.
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at July 03, 2022 10:40 AM (BbSpR)
----------

Supposedly, John Grisham, after he wrote his first book, which didn't sell, decided he preferred success, hence, "The Firm."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:43 AM (5pTK/)

287 You should watch Jordan Peterson on You Tube talking about his Twitter ban. He is practically spitting out pronouns and shows the absurdity of what the Woke are demanding.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at July 03, 2022 10:38 AM

Talk about righteous indignation.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 10:43 AM (ftFVW)

288 203 Their readers (heavily skewed towards older teens, 20s and 30s) will not keep attention focused on even a little wall of text. So they limit their posts to broken up sections with no more than two sentences in each block of text. It's tough to write Moby Dick in that format.

Even old farts such as ace's readers have that same tendency. There is a lot of stuff competing for eyeballs.
Posted by: Muldoon

It also depends on when/where we are reading. I'll visit this site and a few others while at work, but will only read the main article, never the comments, and will sometimes skip out on longer articles. Not because of a lack of attention span, but because I'm supposed to be actually working, and I was just looking for a few-minute distraction. By contrast, when not at work, I'll go through this entire comment thread.....

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 10:43 AM (Lhaco)

289 Harris poll has Brandon at 38% approval. And in the same poll thr generic ballot is a tie. Can the Rs really fuck up this mid term gimme?

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (3vQN0)
---
It means their D+6 sample isn't enough to make Biden look good.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:43 AM (llXky)

290 Can the Rs really fuck up this mid term gimme?
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (3vQN0)

It Is Decidedly So

Posted by: Magic 8 Ball at July 03, 2022 10:44 AM (4I/2K)

291 It is my mom's birthday, she says she was a early firecracker

Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:46 AM (2JoB8)

292 I loved reading the LoTR trilogy. It always reminded me the good will always win one way or the other.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 10:47 AM (Qhnrt)

293 Happy birthday Skip's Mom!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:47 AM (327Ti)

294 Buy the time WWII was ending, I think the US was fully aware that Stalin was as much or more of an enemy than Japan.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (Qhnrt)

Should have accepted the offer from the Germans to surrender only to them and continue the attack on the SU. But, too many ComSimps in government probably would have stopped it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (7bRMQ)

295 Tolkien is one of the most efficient prose stylists out there. If you compare him to other fantasy writers in particular, his words are very well chosen and he says just enough to let you fill in the details.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (llXky)

I agree. Everything there is there for a reason. And I found after a while that I enjoyed his lingering around the Shire or Rivendell and his many evocations of the old world, as he was framing the encroaching darkness against what was once and beautiful and what they might be losing.

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (H8QX8)

296 me:

The Vikings in History, by F. Donald Logan.

This is an academic historian, not a populist historian. Footnotes & sources are us.

Prior to reading, I had a few inchoate impressions, nothing more. There is a lot to this!

For one thing, the Norsemen seem no more and no less warlike and ruthless than the Anglo Saxon polities they attacked.

There are a lot of gaps in the historical record, and nothing from the early Vikings themselves-- burial ships; weapons; decorations; longhouses, yes. Historical works, no.

Posted by: mnw at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (NLIak)

297 Can we wait an hour for CBDs political thread?

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (gx4Oa)

298 Happy Birthday Skip's Mom !

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (arJlL)

299 Did you guys really miss out on discussing that blonde in the top photo?

I mean. She's got a bangin' ass and she is in flats!

Can you imagine how good that girl would look in heels!?

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (XTdJ4)

300
It is my mom's birthday, she says she was a early firecracker
Posted by: Skip at July 03, 2022 10:46 AM (2JoB

My mom always said the country celebrated her birthday, just a day late.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 10:50 AM (Zz0t1)

301 I'm working on an online book of sorts to highlight American heroes who we've forgotten, or while famous, had other accomplishments. I'm up to 61. I was inspired by the Hall of Fame of Great Americans in The Bronx.

Some of my entries come up in today's discussion.

Leo Baekeland Father of the plastics industry -- in Yonkers of all places

Vannevar Bush USA's chief scientist during WWII, created the Manhattan Project. His "Memex" prefigured personal computers and the internet. He was Teller's boss

Harriet Beecher Stowe Abolitionist author of Uncle Tom's Cabin. On meeting her, Lincoln said "so you're the little woman who strated this great war."

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 03, 2022 10:52 AM (i0slg)

302 297. Maybe it can be a political, T&A thread?

Posted by: CN at July 03, 2022 10:52 AM (ONvIw)

303 Can't search in phone so maybe repeat.

Pirsig wrote in ZAMM about class without grades.

Are you teaching quality?

A reflection of that is Demings work on quality in business...Out of the Crisis. He objects to gold stars.

Posted by: David Prince at July 03, 2022 10:52 AM (WUxVt)

304 301 I'm working on an online book of sorts to highlight American heroes who we've forgotten, or while famous, had other accomplishments. I'm up to 61. I was inspired by the Hall of Fame of Great Americans in The Bronx.

Excellent idea!

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:53 AM (H8QX8)

305 299

Posted by: eagle eyes at July 03, 2022 10:53 AM (3vQN0)

306 Supposedly, John Grisham, after he wrote his first book, which didn't sell, decided he preferred success, hence, "The Firm."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 10:43 AM (5pTK/)

It's one thing to write for yourself and put it away, never to be seen by anyone and another to write to publish so you can eat.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 10:54 AM (7bRMQ)

307 If you enjoy audio books there are a few good ones included in the lecture series called "The Great Courses". These are recorded in an auditorium in front of live audiences, over weeks.
The lecturers are authors, professors and the like.
Prof. Kenneth Harl has a good one on the Vikings.

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 10:54 AM (jTmQV)

308 305 299
Posted by: eagle eyes

If this were the Gun Thread, you'd be sportin' Maggie's Drawers !

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 10:55 AM (arJlL)

309 Tolkien is one of the most efficient prose stylists out there. If you compare him to other fantasy writers in particular, his words are very well chosen and he says just enough to let you fill in the details.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:41 AM (llXky)

I agree. Everything there is there for a reason. And I found after a while that I enjoyed his lingering around the Shire or Rivendell and his many evocations of the old world, as he was framing the encroaching darkness against what was once and beautiful and what they might be losing.

Posted by: Ordinary American at July 03, 2022 10:48 AM (H8QX

Don't get me wrong. The dude is absolute genius. The world he created, the language, the maps, the story, is off the charts. You know when you're stuck in traffic, and your exit is right there, right in front of you, and you just... can't... get there because of the M'fers in front of you. Thats what I was feeling in that book. Sections of what was a quick trip to the corner store ends up being lewis and clark.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:56 AM (VwHCD)

310 Australians Take to the Streets to Rally Against U.S. Overturning Roe v. Wade

-
Take two kangaroos and call me in the morning.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10:56 AM (FVME7)

311 307 If you enjoy audio books there are a few good ones included in the lecture series called "The Great Courses". These are recorded in an auditorium in front of live audiences, over weeks.
The lecturers are authors, professors and the like.
Prof. Kenneth Harl has a good one on the Vikings.
Posted by: gourmand

I've listened to that lecture several times through. I'm fond of many of the Great Courses history lectures.

Posted by: Castle Guy at July 03, 2022 10:57 AM (Lhaco)

312 >>Australians Take to the Streets to Rally Against U.S. Overturning Roe v. Wade

I hope the Emus attack again and kill them all.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 10:57 AM (XTdJ4)

313 Australians Take to the Streets to Rally Against U.S. Overturning Roe v. Wade

-
Take two kangaroos and call me in the morning.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 10

Australia's sex market / morals makes the USA look like the Church lady.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 10:58 AM (WMdrL)

314 You know when you're stuck in traffic, and your exit is right there, right in front of you, and you just... can't... get there because of the M'fers in front of you. Thats what I was feeling in that book. Sections of what was a quick trip to the corner store ends up being lewis and clark.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 10:56 AM (VwHCD)
---
The point is that if you skim forward, there are rich rewards later on. Some editions even have a synopsis if you want to skip ahead.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:58 AM (llXky)

315 I just read TWO Dave Barry Books; Best State EVER , about his home state of Florida.

And Live Right and Find Happiness (although Beer is Much Faster.)

He can still make me laugh.

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 10:58 AM (arJlL)

316 vmom - It is a KILT. We must honor those with different views. /s
Posted by: mustbequantum

I never kilt no one!
*kicks dirk into bushes*

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 10:59 AM (nhaTm)

317 Can the Rs really fuck up this mid term gimme?
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 10:35 AM (3vQN0)

Ummmmmmmm....Yes.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 10:59 AM (R/m4+)

318 Finishing off my Thomas Wolfe marathon. His letters read like his books, detailed, poetic. The movie does a good job of capturing that and his work with Perkins.

Next I'm rereading some Hemingway. Maybe some Borges.

Posted by: CN at July 03, 2022 10:59 AM (ONvIw)

319 I really need to go to the pharmacy to pick up an RX. They're closed tomorrow; I don't want to go after work on Tuesday; but it's hot and unpleasant now, and it won't improve later on. Grrrr.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 10:59 AM (c6xtn)

320 Berserker, really like the similes.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 10:59 AM (Y+l9t)

321 >>Australia's sex market / morals makes the USA look like the Church lady.

Oh, man...a sex market?

I'm gonna nip off to the market and grab me some Fartclam for dinner!

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:00 AM (XTdJ4)

322 It might be interesting to do a thread on why people write. Revenge? No, that's not one of mine. I'm always impressed by how in control people seem to be. My stories most often start in dreams, like I'm watching a movie. Very specific scenes, character names (in one case, a basketball player named Ram Mallaby and a pianist Katerina van der Linn), then I have to write the story they're from.

Once I came across 75 pages of notes for a sci-fi fantasy I didn't remember writing. The paper and font told me I had written it during the year I was in chemo for advanced ovarian cancer. I hid from it for years, but I couldn't throw it away. So one day I just said, Okay, I'm going to write a chapter and be done with this. Then I read it over and said, Hell, I'll never write anything better than this, so I had to keep going. Also to learn more about sci-fi fantasy, which I hadn't read much of.

Posted by: Wenda at July 03, 2022 11:00 AM (TK9+5)

323 I can see why people don't really care for Tolkien's style - and the lewis and clark quip is funny because it's kinda true.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:00 AM (gx4Oa)

324
I'm gonna nip off to the market and grab me some Fartclam for dinner!
Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:00 AM (XTdJ4)

Amazeballs.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (Zz0t1)

325 For all those folks who get bogged down at the start of LotR: skip ahead. Cut right to Rivendell.

Don't worry about missing anything, because once you are done, you will read it again.

Everyone reads it again. Some never stop. It's that kind of book.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (llXky)

326 I recently listened to part of a Great Courses series, just the lectures on Confucius, Lao Zi, Mancius, The Legalists

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (nhaTm)

327 Australians Take to the Streets to Rally Against U.S. Overturning Roe v. Wade
-
Take two kangaroos and call me in the morning.

I'll show them. Just for that, I won't go to Outback for dinner tonight.

Posted by: Oddbob at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (nfrXX)

328 Do you think it motivates you to write more? Also, do you find it hard to write, or easy? I mean, do ideas and writing flow, or do you have to spend hours on a sentence or paragraph?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 09:41 AM (7bRMQ)

Bad writing does nothing for me. Good/great writing can inspire me. I'm competitive that way.
As a general rule, I can write reasonably easily.
If I get stuck or find a particular part a slog, it's usually because I'm making an error in my storytelling.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (5NkmN)

329 Well, time to wander. Later!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (5pTK/) at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (5pTK/)

330 322. Interesting! I guess state of mind is a factor

Posted by: CN at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (ONvIw)

331 garret gfy

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:02 AM (gx4Oa)

332 However, that would've been a perfect time for a Snizz sighting in the thread, but NO. Straight for the anus.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:02 AM (Zz0t1)

333 >>garret gfy
Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:02 AM (gx4Oa)

Suck my dick anonymous douche.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:03 AM (XTdJ4)

334 On the Decades Twilight Zone marathon, the current episode is a jungle WWII story with Leonard Nimoy as part of the platoon.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 11:03 AM (c6xtn)

335 I liked "The Vikings In History" because the author keeps a gimlet eye on what is known and avoids speculation.

He's very careful.

The Vikings built superb seagoing ships. Some have been meticulously re-created and sailed, and experts have been profoundly impressed by both the design and the construction. Viking sailors and navigators themselves were the A-team, if ever there was one.

All of that notwithstanding, Eric the Red lost about half his fleet in a storm, because... risky business is STILL risky business!

Posted by: mnw at July 03, 2022 11:03 AM (NLIak)

336 >>However, that would've been a perfect time for a Snizz sighting in the thread, but NO. Straight for the anus.

I blame the blonde up top. Also, Snizz is less of a Market Item, imo.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:04 AM (XTdJ4)

337 City of Orlando sent an email out saying America sucks, we know, but we already bought the fireworks so come on out and watch. They got blowback and had to apologize and shit.

But they were not wrong. Their beef is from the left, which makes it retarded since the left gets everything it wants always.

But in spirit, I do agree. America is a backwater shithole in 2022 and not much to celebrate about it.

Posted by: eagle eyes at July 03, 2022 11:04 AM (3vQN0)

338 Robert Ludlum was the first author I started reading in High School. I then moved to Clive Cussler briefly. Next author that I tried to read all of his books was Stephen Hunter. I then found Steven Pressfield about 20 years ago . Just like politicians, all authors will eventually disappoint you.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (WMdrL)

339 Once in awhile I look at the website of a high school I attended in the early 70s. We had an independent reading requirement and took book tests to demonstrate that we did the work. The school still does this. But the list has grown to include newer works. Wonderfully, the classics remain.

Posted by: CN at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (ONvIw)

340 I never kilt no one!
*kicks dirk into bushes*
=====

I always laugh at some (even in the Horde) who believe that skirts are for females.

Some kind of formal Greek commandos (and there's a double entendre) wear fluffy white skirts, white leggings, and pompoms on their shoes. Apparently, they are deadly -- like with a name like 'Smuckers' it has to be good.

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (MIKMs)

341
I blame the blonde up top. Also, Snizz is less of a Market Item, imo.
Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:04 AM (XTdJ4)

No pink before stink?

And I will admit, I was disappointed that the 'click to embiggen' did NOT reveal a closer shot of said blonde's backend.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:06 AM (Zz0t1)

342 As a general rule, I can write reasonably easily.
If I get stuck or find a particular part a slog, it's usually because I'm making an error in my storytelling.
Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022

***
I'm the same way once I get started. Starting is always tough for me. As for the getting stuck or slog, I've found for me I'm usually trying to be too complicated, trying to describe 2-3 things at once. If I back up and explain or describe the situation or actions simply, that usually gets me out of it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 11:06 AM (c6xtn)

343 I'll show them. Just for that, I won't go to Outback for dinner tonight.
Posted by: Oddbob at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (nfrXX)

Dude you're lucky I was in between sips of coffee or you would owe me a new keyboard.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:06 AM (3vQN0)

344 Speaking of Dobbs/Roe, a friend said that some bint on the radio says that restricting abortion spells the end of 'hook up culture.'

Gosh, I hope so!

Last night I re-watched "Logan's Run," and while it's ludicrously 70s, it does predict the rise of hook-ups. There's a scene where Logan is basically using Tinder to find someone to have sex with.

So the story got that much right.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 11:06 AM (llXky)

345
All of that notwithstanding, Eric the Red lost about half his fleet in a storm, because... risky business is STILL risky business!
Posted by: mnw at July 03, 2022 11:03 AM (NLIak)

Just take those old records off the shelf.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (Zz0t1)

346 Well I am off. On topic simply does not apply to some people.

Posted by: CN at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (ONvIw)

347 the aggressively passive aggressive trolling. get a life. seriously. a. life. offline. because 500 comments a week just doesn't satisfy.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (gx4Oa)

348 We get it, Garrett. You're TOTALLY NOY GAY.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (NpErr)

349 Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:02 AM (gx4Oa)

Any particular reason for this comment?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (XIJ/X)

350 Any particular reason for this comment?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (XIJ/X)

He talks like a fag and his shits all retarded.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:08 AM (Zz0t1)

351 Recently downloaded a copy of Gulliver's Travels. I was able to read it until he started his treatise on government.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:08 AM (RA08Q)

352 get a life. seriously. a. life. offline. because 500 comments a week just doesn't satisfy.
Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:07 AM (gx4Oa)

Yet, here you are, shunning those you're doing the same thing as.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (Zz0t1)

353 Posted by: Wenda at July 03, 2022 11:00 AM (TK9+5)

Thanks. And Perfessor, maybe the thread for the future?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (7bRMQ)

354 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)

355 Actually finished some reading. Teddy Roosevelts autobiography is a C-, it struck me as a campaign biography and not that well written. Still an interesting guy. I also finished Swann's Way. It slowly grew on me but not enough to want to attempt all of Remembrance of Things Past (I know that's not the up-to-date translation of the title but I like the sound of it better). I started on The Frontier in American History and it's a surprisingly easy read, modern academics should take lessons from F.J. Turner.

Posted by: who knew at July 03, 2022 11:10 AM (4I7VG)

356 >>Well I am off. On topic simply does not apply to some people.

Bye Felicia

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:10 AM (XTdJ4)

357 Robert Ludlum was the first author I started reading in High School. I then moved to Clive Cussler briefly. Next author that I tried to read all of his books was Stephen Hunter. I then found Steven Pressfield about 20 years ago . Just like politicians, all authors will eventually disappoint you.
Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (WMdrL)

Alistair MacLean may be the exception that proves the rule. I have enjoyed all of his stories.

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 03, 2022 11:10 AM (4I/2K)

358 Robert Ludlum was the first author I started reading in High School.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (WMdrL)

That might be a fun stand-alone thread: Who was the first author who piqued your interest?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:11 AM (XIJ/X)

359 gfy sponge.

Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:11 AM (gx4Oa)

360 Thanks. And Perfessor, maybe the thread for the future?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (7bRMQ)
---
Yep. I copied Wenda's comment for future use...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (K5n5d)

361 Robert Ludlum was the first author I started reading in High School. I then moved to Clive Cussler briefly. Next author that I tried to read all of his books was Stephen Hunter. I then found Steven Pressfield about 20 years ago . Just like politicians, all authors will eventually disappoint you.
Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:05 AM (WMdrL)

My mother was big into Clive Cussler for a time, then all the books started to become the same and she grew very bored.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (Zz0t1)

362 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)
---
It absolutely is. Look at the marriage rates, incidence of out of wedlock children.

It started with the sexual revolution and then became mainstream.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (llXky)

363 Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:11 AM (gx4Oa)

Take a break. You can come back next week.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (XIJ/X)

364 354 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)

The history of disco clubs has been forgotten.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (Qhnrt)

365 Two thoughts:

Yesterday, I once more proved my theory that if you aren't suicidal when you first pick up a Russian written book, you will be by the end. I tried to read Boris Bakunin's "The Winter Queen".

Secondly: Thanks to selling books for 25 years, I have an extremely jaundiced view of modern American " literature". My theory is that contemporary American lit is written by college professors for other college professors. "I'll put your book on my required reading list if you put mine on yours." American fiction (books read for pleasure) is hanging in there, but "serious literature" sucks. The great Tony Hillerman once wrote something to the effect that if you want an actual plot ans good character development, you have to read mysteries. (I would add sf to that.)

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I wasn't particularly fond of the '70s the first time around at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (H31K8)

366 Posted by: 13times at July 03, 2022 11:11 AM (gx4Oa)

Yet you're still here.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (Zz0t1)

367
Take a break. You can come back next week.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Thank you CBD.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (RA08Q)

368 >>Actually finished some reading. Teddy Roosevelts autobiography is a C-,

One of the places I own out here is one of the oldest homesteads in Western Mt.
So old that the Deed was assigned by Teddy when he was the Territorial Land Assesor.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (XTdJ4)

369 That might be a fun stand-alone thread: Who was the first author who piqued your interest?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:11 AM (XIJ/X)
---
Another good topic for a future thread, though I honestly can't remember who that might be. I've read so many books in my 29+ years, it's hard to remember who might be the first author who piqued my interest.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (K5n5d)

370 Bad writing does nothing for me. Good/great writing can inspire me. I'm competitive that way.
As a general rule, I can write reasonably easily.
If I get stuck or find a particular part a slog, it's usually because I'm making an error in my storytelling.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:01 AM (5NkmN)

Thanks for your comment. I'm wondering because I read about people taking years to write a book and sometimes things just come right out or to me as I'm attempting to write. I just think maybe what I wrote is crap, that's why it comes so easily it seems at times. But until a professional has time to look at it and tell me it's junk, how will I know? Now, I have rewritten some areas that I don't like in some of the stuff I've already "completed," but I'm not sure if it's publish quality. So, I keep asking.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (7bRMQ)

371 >>Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.

The Flappers of the 20/30s are completely forgotten.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:14 AM (XTdJ4)

372

The Flappers of the 20/30s are completely forgotten.
Posted by: garrett

Except in our dreams.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:15 AM (RA08Q)

373 I started on The Frontier in American History and it's a surprisingly easy read, modern academics should take lessons from F.J. Turner.
Posted by: who knew

Ike's brother ?

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (arJlL)

374 I was an avid reader from an early age but didn't rally think about authors. It was Nancy Drew detective and Cherry Ames, Nurse. Or I would want to read anything that had horses like Black Beauty(shoot, is that even allowed anymore?).

Can we get rid of the person whose only comment is GFY?

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (Y+l9t)

375 >>> 258 I am reading "Hell Spawn: A Catholic Action Horror Novel" by one Declan Finn and I'm fairly sure I'm going to read more. The hero seems to be a member of Opus Dei and quite a solid believer and an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion: an all-round good guy. Bonus: his helpful psychiatrist and possible exorcist friend is a Dominican friar which is AWESOME: I belong to a Dominican parish and you can't beat them for intelligence, knowledge of scripture and church doctrine and their ability to teach. I'm just on page 91 but I feel sure there will be more of this series for me.
Posted by: Tonestaple at July 03, 2022 10:33 AM (3qAOE)

The "Catholic action horror" tag is quite accurate. I thought the protagonist's comment about Dominicans vs Jesuits was funny (and isn't FakePope Frankie a Jesuit or am I thinking of someone else?). The author does a good job of writing the action (especially vs some others labeled "action" writers) and the villain and his motivation (not to mention his um, support) is in fact horrifying. Thus I haven't picked up any of the following books although I may do so in the future.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (llON8)

376 It absolutely is. Look at the marriage rates, incidence of out of wedlock children.

It started with the sexual revolution and then became mainstream.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (llXky)

Depends by what new means. I'm saying not new recently and began long before Roe.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (3vQN0)

377 One of the places I own out here is one of the oldest homesteads in Western Mt.
So old that the Deed was assigned by Teddy when he was the Territorial Land Assesor.
Posted by: garrett

Now that is very cool.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (RA08Q)

378
Can we get rid of the person whose only comment is GFY?
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:16 AM (Y+l9t)

CBD sent him to the showers already.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:17 AM (Zz0t1)

379 The Flappers of the 20/30s are completely forgotten.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:14 AM (XTdJ4)

True, but there was a sense of propriety that kept much of that behavior from being overt. I think today's hook-up culture has no sense of shame or even any idea that perhaps it isn't the best and highest expression of humanity to bang everyone you can...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:17 AM (XIJ/X)

380 The great Tony Hillerman once wrote something to the effect that if you want an actual plot ans good character development, you have to read mysteries. (I would add sf to that.)
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I wasn't particularly fond of the '70s the first time around at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (H31K

---
Interesting point. I would argue that mysteries probably have better character development over science fiction, but science fiction probably has more creative plots. These are generalizations, of course, and any given story can have a unique plot with great characters, regardless of genre.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:17 AM (K5n5d)

381 Almost finished reading The Apparitionists by Peter Manseau. It's a nonfiction book about William Mumler, an 1860s photographer, who was put on trial for faking spirit photographs to sell to grieving people. The author goes into a lot of detail about the birth of photography, spiritualism, and the Civil War. Raises interesting questions about the power of belief, and how all photography includes an element of manipulation.

Posted by: Linnet at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (tetb/)

382 The point is that if you skim forward, there are rich rewards later on. Some editions even have a synopsis if you want to skip ahead.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 03, 2022 10:58 AM (llXky)

I hate doing that, I read every word. I think one of the problems is all my years as a metal musician. We have to paint big vivid pictures in people's minds with very little space to do it, so I'm used to a different pace. You plant the idea and move on, not repeat the entire thing because the character hit a bend in the road and now the sun is facing a different direction, and now you go through all the same shit again. One example, take a song about a train from Motorhead.

Iron child from a vulcan forge, metal scream and thrash
red steel in the driving wheel, hear the pistons clash
Black dragon breathing big black smoke, howling up the tracks.

You'll never hear any other genre describe a train that way. In a few lines they turned it into something more than a train, almost a monster, and the image is planted.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (VwHCD)

383 I haven't been there in a while, but the Portland International Airport (PDX) has a branch of Powell's books that may or may not carry some used books in addition to new ones. I suppose they might stock some used ones that are known to still be in high demand (recent bestsellers).
Posted by: PabloD at July 03, 2022 09:44 AM (ySCnP)

That section of the airport has been closed and only the ticket counters and the boarding/TSA points are open at PDX

PDX now has all the charm of a high tech bus station without the bums, and the two cafes are incredibly over priced.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (xhaym)

384 Another good topic for a future thread, though I honestly can't remember who that might be. I've read so many books in my 29+ years, it's hard to remember who might be the first author who piqued my interest.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022

***
As a kid I was into characters -- Roy Rogers and Bret Maverick in the Whitman Young People's Authorized TV Edition novels, and Jimmy Olsen and Batman in the DC comics. The first "name" on a paperback cover that interested me was Alfred Hitchcock with 14 of My Favorites in Suspense (I still have it!). Then came Rex Stout and his Nero Wolfes, then Ellery Queen with the stories about Ellery the detective.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (c6xtn)

385 Garrett, that is so exciting. My however-many-great grandparents were sodbusters in South Dakota, same time as the Ingalls. What was the homesteader's name?

Posted by: Wenda at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (TK9+5)

386 Thanks CBD.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:19 AM (Y+l9t)

387 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM

There has always seemed to be an undercurrent of that in the young crowd. But it was at least frowned upon if not actively denigrated in the past. Now it seems like there is a lot more celebration of it. The feminists supplanted the more traditional matriarchs who kept some of that behavior in check.

I'm glad I missed the modern focus on hookup.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 11:19 AM (ftFVW)

388 >>True, but there was a sense of propriety that kept much of that behavior from being overt. I think today's hook-up culture has no sense of shame or even any idea that perhaps it isn't the best and highest expression of humanity to bang everyone you can...

Well, I have to go mostly from Literary refs. But, if Raymond Chandler is to be trusted, I think it might have been a bit more overt than any of would suspect it could have been, given the times.

But. I will give you the point, as it was only really occuring amongst the elite / rich in the cities.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:20 AM (XTdJ4)

389 I also finished Swann's Way.

Posted by: who knew at July 03, 2022 11:10 AM (4I7VG)

I'd read it. If it was Alan Swann's Way.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:20 AM (7bRMQ)

390 What would I do without Joe Xiden's contrarianism.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:20 AM (WMdrL)

391 True, but there was a sense of propriety that kept much of that behavior from being overt. I think today's hook-up culture has no sense of shame or even any idea that perhaps it isn't the best and highest expression of humanity to bang everyone you can...
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:17 AM (XIJ/X)

it is more in your face today, true. But the volume is no higher than back in the "good old days".

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:21 AM (3vQN0)

392
The Flappers of the 20/30s are completely forgotten.
Posted by: garrett

Except in our dreams.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:15 AM (RA08Q)

Which reminds me that I wish the series Babylon Berlin would have continued through the Hitler/WWII years.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 11:21 AM (Qhnrt)

393 Sections of what was a quick trip to the corner store ends up being lewis and clark.
Posted by: Berserker

********

Lewis (or maybe it was Clark) "Say, Sacagawea, can you ask that Blackfoot warrior how to get to the nearest "Toot & Moo"?

Posted by: Muldoon at July 03, 2022 11:21 AM (kXYt5)

394 >>What was the homesteader's name?

I'd have to pull up the Deed as it was left to one of the Sisters who remarried an Italian fellow by the name of Ruffato. Whose family is still a neighbor.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (XTdJ4)

395 Iron child from a vulcan forge, metal scream and thrash
red steel in the driving wheel, hear the pistons clash
Black dragon breathing big black smoke, howling up the tracks.

You'll never hear any other genre describe a train that way. In a few lines they turned it into something more than a train, almost a monster, and the image is planted.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (VwHCD)
---
Weirdly, that's evocative of Michael Moorcock's writing. May explain why he's had an influence on music...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (K5n5d)

396 I did pay attention to the authors of the individual Man From U.N.C.L.E. paperbacks from Ace Books, especially David McDaniel, whose novels are considered the best of the series. But it was the characters and the adventures that caught my attention at age 12-13. Though when I saw a byline of someone who'd written one of the series I'd particularly enjoyed, I'd take note.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (c6xtn)

397 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)

Concur. I have a friend who grew up in communist Poland in the 50's and 60's who would make the hair on the back of your neck and other places stand up from the tales of sexual debauchery that went on in commie land back then. Lots of drinking but no drugs.

The Stasi probably had it all on film.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (R/m4+)

398 Yep. I copied Wenda's comment for future use...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:12 AM (K5n5d)

And CBDs at 358.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:23 AM (7bRMQ)

399 I remember Piers Anthony, Tolkein...

and the Mack Bolan books being the impetus for my reading addiction as a kid.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:24 AM (XTdJ4)

400 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)

Are you purposely obtuse? We are talking since the 'sexual revolution'.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:24 AM (WMdrL)

401 And CBDs at 358.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:23 AM (7bRMQ)
---
Yep. Captured that one, too!

I copy comments from this thread into a Google Doc that I use to help craft next week's thread. I don't use everything, but the Moron Horde is an endless source of inspiration!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:25 AM (K5n5d)

402 400 Hook up culture i nothing new. I love how people like to pretend 50 years ago 20 year olds weren't fucking strangers after a night of drinking.
Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:09 AM (3vQN0)

Are you purposely obtuse? We are talking since the 'sexual revolution'.
Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:24 AM (WMdrL)

Right. Like communist Poland and the flappers, lol.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:25 AM (3vQN0)

403 Wolfus --
That Hitchcock collection was a delight. I'd bought it for du Maurier's "The Birds," but I think I enjoyed Boucher's "They Bite" even more. "Four o'Clock," "Terrified," "Too Many Coincidences," and "Man with a Problem" aren't too dusty either.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at July 03, 2022 11:26 AM (JzDjf)

404 CBD, if you are here, Me email went toes-up yesterday. Will see you at weaseltime.

Posted by: Eromero at July 03, 2022 11:26 AM (DXbAa)

405 Weirdly, that's evocative of Michael Moorcock's writing. May explain why he's had an influence on music...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (K5n5d)

I'm going to have to check him out.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 11:26 AM (VwHCD)

406 >>> 404 CBD, if you are here, Me email went ~~toes~~tits-up yesterday. Will see you at weaseltime.
Posted by: Eromero at July 03, 2022 11:26 AM (DXbAa)

Posted by: AoS Style Guide at July 03, 2022 11:27 AM (llON8)

407 First author I spent my own money on (paperboy route) was Lester Dent's Doc Savage. Bought them used for 10 cents each; but, had to ride my bicycle downtown on Saturday morning (foggy and cold) through hilly Santa Barbara.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:27 AM (RA08Q)

408 Weirdly, that's evocative of Michael Moorcock's writing. May explain why he's had an influence on music...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:22 AM (K5n5d)

I'm going to have to check him out.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at July 03, 2022 11:26 AM (VwHCD)
---
Here's a taste of how Moorcock has influenced metal music...

https://tinyurl.com/2sspb48w

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:27 AM (K5n5d)

409 Here is what reversing Roe will do: NADA

People will still fuck like they always have. Women will still get abortions like they always have. And politicians will fundraise from it like they always have.

Posted by: Joe XiDen at July 03, 2022 11:28 AM (3vQN0)

410 ---
Here's a taste of how Moorcock has influenced metal music...

https://tinyurl.com/2sspb48w
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:27 AM (K5n5d)

What an unfortunate name.

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:28 AM (Zz0t1)

411 Belys petersburg is a flashback

Posted by: No 6 at July 03, 2022 11:29 AM (i0Lci)

412 The first "name" on a paperback cover that interested me was Alfred Hitchcock with 14 of My Favorites in Suspense (I still have it!).

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 03, 2022 11:18 AM (c6xtn)

I know we had that book. I don't know if I still do. I did read it decades ago.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:30 AM (7bRMQ)

413 >>We get it, Garrett. You're TOTALLY NOY GAY.

I'm only gay in Ace's Dreams.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:30 AM (XTdJ4)

414 What an unfortunate name.
Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:28 AM

Unfortunate or epic? Depends on how you it.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 11:30 AM (ftFVW)

415 One of the places I own out here is one of the oldest homesteads in Western Mt.
So old that the Deed was assigned by Teddy when he was the Territorial Land Assesor.
Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:13 AM (XTdJ4)

about that time a couple of my mother's uncles homesteaded a ranch near Judith Gap. Visited them once when I was young. It was the 60's, but the bunch there still lived like cowboys, going out on horses to do ranch work. Great memory.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 03, 2022 11:30 AM (r46W7)

416 >> a couple of my mother's uncles homesteaded a ranch near Judith Gap

Beautiful country, there.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (XTdJ4)

417 "Depends on how you USE is it."

Damn finger brain connection must be misfiring.

Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (ftFVW)

418 I finally ran across two of the post Lee Child Reacher novels at a Goodwill last week and at that price decided to give them a try. Have read one. A solid "ok". Really doesn't have that special quality and Reacher doesn't feel quite like Reacher til the action starts. I think of Reacher books like Fleming Bond novels, where it's just the unique way of the author that makes them work and not the plot or character really. Oddly enough the post Puzo Godfather books are as good as the Puzo one. Dunno what that says about Puzo.

Posted by: azjaeger at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (3/XaG)

419 "Depends on how you USE is it."

Damn finger brain connection must be misfiring.
Posted by: She Hobbit at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (ftFVW)

Was going to ask.....

Posted by: Sponge - F*ck Joe Biden at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (Zz0t1)

420 As to why I write what I write, basically I write what I would like to read and no one else is writing it.

For "Wearing the Cat", here was my list of wants:
1) I wanted a fun literary novel. A comic novel in the sense of "Huckleberry Finn" or "Catch-22".
2) I wanted a picaresque novel because I like reading picaresque novels and I like the format of a good entertaining long read.
3) The hero would be a picaro. Not necessarily an admirable character, but one who went through life using his wits. Such as they were.
4) The protagonist and other figures would experience growth and development. I hate novels where everyone stays the same and no one changes.
5) I wanted a story where there were lots of twists and surprises and laughs or shocks.
6) I didn't want the reader to know exactly where the novel was going and what was going to happen while they were reading, because...
7) I wanted everything, everything to come together, make sense, and resolve at the climax and at the end. Because that makes for a fun read.

I think I got it about 95-96% right. So, I was pleased
My new novel has some similar wants, but is different and there's other things I want to

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (5NkmN)

421 It is amazing how some people just cannot help themselves when it comes to non political discussions.
There is more to life than politics.
Other than that, interesting morning.
Thanks Perfessor Squirrel.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:32 AM (Y+l9t)

422 "'There was a major campaign against science fiction author Orson Scott Card several years ago because he dared espouse traditional views about homosexuality. Now, I've read quite a few of his books and I don't recall homosexuality being any sort of major plot point where he inserts his own views about the subject. It just isn't relevant to his stories."

That last is the reason for Card's cancellation by the gay mafia. We are not allowed to just tolerate the gay lifestyle. We must actively celebrate it. If you write stories without any homosexual characters, you are homophobic by the definition given by the gay mafia. It is much the same with today's anti-racism crowd. You can't just be color-blind; you must be actively anti-racist and admit that racism is everywhere.

Posted by: Ralph at July 03, 2022 11:32 AM (Qf//C)

423 Thanks Perfessor Squirrel.
Posted by: Sharon

Completely agree, thank you PS.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:34 AM (RA08Q)

424 reeding is overrated
Posted by: REDACTED at July 03, 2022 10:17 AM (us2H3)

However, with all other consideration, it is, without a doubt, a valuable invention of rounding the money and making the edges of them with letters or grainings, essential for prevention of clipping, shaving, sweating or otherwise abstracting metal from, and cheapening of, coins of standard weight and value.

Posted by: Zombie Isaac Newton at July 03, 2022 11:34 AM (xhaym)

425 Speaking of fantasy . . .

Joe Scarborough
@JoeNBC
MEDIA BIAS ALERT: Kamala Harris hasn' t had a positive profile in a year. DeSantis sneezes and he's framed as the rising star of politics. And yet the Great White Hope STILL loses is every head-to-head matchup with Harris. The VP also draws even with Trump.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 11:35 AM (FVME7)

426 >>reeding is overrated

Agree.

Posted by: 1st Chair Trumpet at July 03, 2022 11:35 AM (XTdJ4)

427 I don't use everything, but the Moron Horde is an endless source of inspiration!

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:25 AM (K5n5d)

Uh, finder's fee?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:35 AM (7bRMQ)

428 >reeding is overrated

Agree.
Posted by: 1st Chair Trumpet at July 03, 2022 11:35 AM (XTdJ4

Reed players have better sax.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:36 AM (WMdrL)

429 Good morning everyone. A little late to the party.

Still reading Gladius- book on ancient Rome's military. Good read so far.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 11:36 AM (9mW6C)

430 That last is the reason for Card's cancellation by the gay mafia. We are not allowed to just tolerate the gay lifestyle. We must actively celebrate it. If you write stories without any homosexual characters, you are homophobic by the definition given by the gay mafia. It is much the same with today's anti-racism crowd. You can't just be color-blind; you must be actively anti-racist and admit that racism is everywhere.
Posted by: Ralph at July 03, 2022 11:32 AM (Qf//C)
---
Yep. You cannot simply ignore the issues. Unless you actively affirm that you are an "ally" (whatever that means), you must be destroyed as the "Other."

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:36 AM (K5n5d)

431 Uh, finder's fee?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:35 AM (7bRMQ)
---
Hey, I try to give out hat-tips when appropriate!

I'm still at the bottom tier on the COB dental plan...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at July 03, 2022 11:37 AM (K5n5d)

432 421 It is amazing how some people just cannot help themselves when it comes to non political discussions.
There is more to life than politics.
Other than that, interesting morning.
Thanks Perfessor Squirrel.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:32 AM (Y+l9t)

So I guessing that history books don't discuss politics?

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 11:37 AM (Qhnrt)

433 The Jetsons is on. It's the one where they threaten to send Elroy to military school on Mars.

#2 son just informed me that George Jetson was born in August 2022.

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 11:38 AM (sn5EN)

434 you must be actively anti-racist and admit that racism is everywhere.
Posted by: Ralph

It really gets tiresome though. I have a niece that only possesses the hammer of 'that's racist' and *everything* is a nail for that hammer.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:39 AM (RA08Q)

435 2 son just informed me that George Jetson was born in August 2022.
Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 11:38 AM (sn5EN

So I should get a viable flying car in the next 20 years?

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:39 AM (WMdrL)

436 I think I got it about 95-96% right. So, I was pleased
My new novel has some similar wants, but is different and there's other things I want to

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (5NkmN)

Wow! How do you keep it all together? Does it add a lot of time to getting it from start to finish?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:39 AM (7bRMQ)

437 So I guessing that history books don't discuss politics?
Posted

Don't pretend you didn't know what I was talking about.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:40 AM (Y+l9t)

438 So I guessing that history books don't discuss politics?
Posted

Don't pretend you didn't know what I was talking about.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:40 AM (Y+l9t)

95% of the thread was on topic. That's pretty good.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:41 AM (WMdrL)

439 I've never written a book, I've written some scholarly papers.
Let's say I write a book.
Now it's a 1st draft.
Where does it go next? An editor?

Posted by: gourmand du apres midi at July 03, 2022 11:43 AM (jTmQV)

440 Hawksbill Station, by Robert Silverberg

Sci Fi with a political twist. Interesting, not an alien shoot-em-up.

Posted by: boynsea at July 03, 2022 11:43 AM (cx155)

441 >>95% of the thread was on topic. That's pretty good.

Book Thread usually makes it 2-3x as long as any other for staying on topic.

Granted, ace doesn't really care re. his threads, but he does want the COBs to get that 100 comment ring.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:43 AM (XTdJ4)

442 >> a couple of my mother's uncles homesteaded a ranch near Judith Gap

Beautiful country, there.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (XTdJ4)

Missed opportunity there, Garrett.

I woke with the sun blazing in my eyes. I was alone. I spent the last night in Judith's Gap, now it was time to leave before her husband arrived....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:44 AM (7bRMQ)

443 Oh, and get out there and fly that Flag! Happy 4th!

Posted by: boynsea at July 03, 2022 11:44 AM (cx155)

444 >>Missed opportunity there, Garrett.

I should have just socked 'Judith's Husband'.

Dammit.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:45 AM (XTdJ4)

445 @433 It's the one where they threaten to send Elroy to military school on Mars.

Guys my age didn't "understand" about military school. It was used by certain parents, clergymen, school administrators to threaten the recalcitrant and incorrigible. There wasn't a kid my age who wouldn't have committed a major crime to go to military school.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at July 03, 2022 11:45 AM (videA)

446 "Guys my age didn't "understand" about military school. It was used by certain parents"

Like mine.

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 11:46 AM (sn5EN)

447 well, not reading any books at the moment, but am planning to finish one I'm writing, which honestly began as a parody story about a sex android. I titled it 'Phillip K's Dick'. It was purely for laughs but then people liked it so much I guess now I have to actually get the thing fully expanded and all. It's tedious really as I wrote the intro, and then the ending, so it's effectively done. I have to fill in the middle, which I find tiresome. I mean, I know what happens!

Posted by: LenNeal at July 03, 2022 11:47 AM (43xH1)

448 Wow! How do you keep it all together? Does it add a lot of time to getting it from start to finish?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:39 AM (7bRMQ)

Not really. I had a very clear idea of the story. Where it started, where it ended and "signposts" along the way. Sometimes characters will surprise you but that just means that "they" are reacting organically to the story.

Still, a long story will, of course, take you longer to write than a 200 page dealio.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:47 AM (5NkmN)

449 Going to a late show of Top Gun tonight as that show is the only IMAX showing. May need to take a nap.
Have a good day all.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at July 03, 2022 11:47 AM (Y+l9t)

450 I'd go to a military school ion Mars. I hear they got some hot babes there.

Posted by: fd Carter at July 03, 2022 11:48 AM (sn5EN)

451 >>I titled it 'Phillip K's Dick'. It was purely for laughs but then people liked it so much I guess now I have to actually get the thing fully expanded

extdended works, too.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:48 AM (XTdJ4)

452 Wow. All this self gratification being wished for in the prestigious book thread?

Someone is on the bath salts today.

Posted by: Jak Sucio at July 03, 2022 11:48 AM (jvt6t)

453 I'd go to a military school ion Mars. I hear they got some hot babes there.
Posted by: fd

In fact is cold as hell.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 03, 2022 11:49 AM (RA08Q)

454
Guys my age didn't "understand" about military school. It was used by certain parents, clergymen, school administrators to threaten the recalcitrant and incorrigible. There wasn't a kid my age who wouldn't have committed a major crime to go to military school.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at July 03, 2022 11:45 AM (videA)

My parents kept threatening me with military school. Every time they did I'd think, cool, send me.

They finally caught on and quit using that as a threat.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 11:49 AM (Qhnrt)

455 Speaking of military schools , one of my favorite books was Lords of Discipline by Pat Conroy.

Pat Conroy was another author I read most of his books. He knew how to write.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:49 AM (WMdrL)

456 447 well, not reading any books at the moment, but am planning to finish one I'm writing, which honestly began as a parody story about a sex android. I titled it 'Phillip K's Dick'. It was purely for laughs but then people liked it so much I guess now I have to actually get the thing fully expanded and all. It's tedious really as I wrote the intro, and then the ending, so it's effectively done. I have to fill in the middle, which I find tiresome. I mean, I know what happens!
Posted by: LenNeal at July 03, 2022 11:47 AM (43xH1)

Plunging into the crevasses of Venus!

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 11:50 AM (y+Ab7)

457 on not ion. Ya know.

Posted by: fd Carter at July 03, 2022 11:50 AM (sn5EN)

458 "picaresque"

Posted by: naturalfake at July 03, 2022 11:31 AM (5NkmN)

I had to look it up...with a little motivation, a person could learn a lot on this here blog.

Posted by: BignJames at July 03, 2022 11:50 AM (AwYPR)

459 And now for something completely different, dad tries to prevent cops from arresting his son usind an excavator bucket.

https://bit.ly/3OZ4SlR

Well, at least they can't charge him with using a concealed weapon.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 11:51 AM (FVME7)

460 How to play baseball with your kids.

https://bit.ly/3ygpkrE

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 11:52 AM (FVME7)

461 >>And now for something completely different, dad tries to prevent cops from arresting his son usind an excavator bucket.

The Son of the Son of KILLDOZER.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:52 AM (XTdJ4)

462
Posted by: LenNeal at July 03, 2022 11:47 AM (43xH1

LenNeal,

I started writing a play based on an office joke. Like you, I got several pages in and my friends said it was gold and to keep going. So keep at it! The book doesn't have to be long. Amazon will let you publish just about any length. So yeah, give us some comedy. God knows we could all use more laughs.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 11:54 AM (y+Ab7)

463 And now for something completely different, dad tries to prevent cops from arresting his son usind an excavator bucket.
https://bit.ly/3OZ4SlR
Well, at least they can't charge him with using a concealed weapon.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now the Summer of Our Discontent at July 03, 2022 11:51 AM (FVME7)

Send in the Scoops!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 03, 2022 11:55 AM (R/m4+)

464 >>God knows we could all use more laughs.

For God's Sake.

NOT in the Book Thread!!!1!

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:55 AM (XTdJ4)

465 The Son of the Son of KILLDOZER.
Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:52 AM (XTdJ4)

That dude was the most dangerous of crazy people. The person who thinks he has been wronged by everyone and he has never done anything wrong.

Posted by: Anti doesn't matter at July 03, 2022 11:55 AM (WMdrL)

466 464 >>God knows we could all use more laughs.

For God's Sake.

NOT in the Book Thread!!!1!
Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:55 AM (XTdJ4

LOL!

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at July 03, 2022 11:57 AM (Qhnrt)

467 Now hear this. The levity lamp is lit.

Posted by: Count de Monet at July 03, 2022 11:57 AM (4I/2K)

468 I just got back from some pre 102 degree days errands (going to sit in the AC, thank you) and I actually have a comment for the book thread. Awhile back, a neighbor, church volunteer for the food bank, rummage sales, whatever, gave me some big print books, Joseph Wambaugh cop stuff. She gave me a few more during the past week, including a couple Ernest K. Gann works. My eyesight is OK, corrected, but that big print stuff is nice when you assume the position in the recliner, balance the book on the old gut, and don't have to slide the bifocals up and down to get things in focus.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at July 03, 2022 11:58 AM (lz5hY)

469 Amazon will let you publish just about any length. So yeah, give us some comedy. God knows we could all use more laughs.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 11:54 AM (y+Ab7)

Who publishes on Amazon? Is it for indies and hacks, or do really good writers go that way?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:58 AM (7bRMQ)

470 Jane, stop this crazy thing.

Posted by: fd at July 03, 2022 12:00 PM (sn5EN)

471 Nood

Posted by: Duke Lowell at July 03, 2022 12:01 PM (u73oe)

472 Guys my age didn't "understand" about military school. It was used by certain parents, clergymen, school administrators to threaten the recalcitrant and incorrigible.
___

That's not an effective threat for most military brats.

Posted by: SMH at what's coming at July 03, 2022 12:01 PM (Zbekl)

473 Who publishes on Amazon? Is it for indies and hacks, or do really good writers go that way?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 11:58 AM (7bRMQ)

Well I am most assuredly a hack. So there's that. But my first book sold pretty well for being a hack, so hey- what do you have to lose?

The dude who wrote the Martian published there first until a big house picked him up. Here's the thing- I read somewhere that fantasy writer Piers Anthony told new authors to go Amazon or some other route- because the large publishing firms are inundated and will not take a chance on an unknown writer. And this seems to play out if you take the example of the author of the Martian- it was wildly popular on Amazon so it was a sure bet.

This methodology is what hollywood uses to put out their latest garbage. Except Top Gun: Maverick. That movie was amazing.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 12:01 PM (y+Ab7)

474 Thanks for the Thread, Perfessor! Always a relaxing and thoughtful way to spend a portion of Sunday.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 03, 2022 12:02 PM (HDkjT)

475 Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 12:01 PM (y+Ab7)

Thanks for the info. I'm probably one too. Anyway, gotta go. Thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at July 03, 2022 12:02 PM (7bRMQ)

476 I'm reading Starship Troopers. Took me about 25 years to wash the taste of Stranger in a Strange Land out of my mouth. I'm enjoying Troopers quite a bit. Also bought The Moon is a Harsh Mistress to read later this summer.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at July 03, 2022 12:02 PM (KFhLj)

477 The Flappers of the 20/30s are completely forgotten.

Posted by: garrett at July 03, 2022 11:14 AM (XTdJ4)

True, but there was a sense of propriety that kept much of that behavior from being overt. I think today's hook-up culture has no sense of shame or even any idea that perhaps it isn't the best and highest expression of humanity to bang everyone you can...
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 03, 2022 11:17 AM

My great-aunt was a flapper. She didn't put out. None of her friends did. It was all about the dancing, drinking, and card-playing. She said "bimbo" wasn't originally a woman but a good-looking man who was fun but not marriage material.

She married when she was 17 to a man who liked to dance but was unfortunately a drinker.

Posted by: NaughtyPine at July 03, 2022 12:03 PM (yKPAy)

478 Morning Hordemates.
Alas, I have fallen in amongst evil-doers. French toast AND maple syrup.

Posted by: Diogenes at July 03, 2022 12:03 PM (anj39)

479 A little way into Sean McMeekin's "Stalin's War". He actually covers a tremendous amount of ground, and makes some fairly audacious claims, and that's just in the sort of scene-setting (1930s). At points it almost feels like everything is being force-fed into his overall framework. But that may just be my impression, and I've been too lazy to look much back at the notes for his documentation or deeper discussion on specific issues.

One non-central fun fact I somehow had missed: Trotsky invited at least a portion of the western military forces into the northern USSR early on, for the Soviets' own purposes. If true, interesting.

Posted by: rhomboid at July 03, 2022 12:06 PM (OTzUX)

480 476 I'm reading Starship Troopers. Took me about 25 years to wash the taste of Stranger in a Strange Land out of my mouth. I'm enjoying Troopers quite a bit. Also bought The Moon is a Harsh Mistress to read later this summer.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at July 03, 2022 12:02 PM (KFhLj)

Bear- I tried to read Moon is a Harsh Mistress after a buddy raved about it. I just couldn't get into it. Usually I like Heinlens stuff but that one bored me. Starship Troopers is excellent.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 12:09 PM (y+Ab7)

481 This methodology is what hollywood uses to put out their latest garbage. Except Top Gun: Maverick. That movie was amazing.

Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 12:01 PM (y+Ab7)

The cost of failure is too high in those markets, both financially and status and time wise.

In Amazon you just do a re-write and change the name

Posted by: Kindltot at July 03, 2022 12:10 PM (xhaym)

482 Bear- I tried to read Moon is a Harsh Mistress after a buddy raved about it. I just couldn't get into it. Usually I like Heinlens stuff but that one bored me. Starship Troopers is excellent.
Posted by: Secret Squirrel, author of the military SCI FI series Outward Frontier on AMAZON at July 03, 2022 12:09 PM (y+Ab7)

I recall reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress in high school and thinking it was pretty neat. I'm trying to reread it 40 years later and it just isn't clicking. Too much navel gazing, etc.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent, STEM Guy at July 03, 2022 12:24 PM (ZSK0i)

483 I finally read far enough into LOTR to not get stuck and drop out courtesy of a ten-hour layover in an airport, when my only other choice of reading material was Federal Aviation Regs. You're right. Once you slog far enough in that patience at the pacing is hammered into you, it's a good story.

But this was *after* I had enjoyed all 3 movies. Reading him is like wading through molasses. It's good, and rich, and dense, and so very, very slow.

It's not like I lacked the opportunity before then. I think mi mama tried to teach me to read on LOTR, as well as the Odyssey and the Illiad. My bro was writing notes in Elvish in high school. It just... took a couple decades before I could actually manage to finish it.

Posted by: Not From Around Here at July 03, 2022 12:29 PM (wrzAm)

484 Which reminds me that I wish the series Babylon Berlin would have continued through the Hitler/WWII years.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons

I agree. That is a great series. The Germans are doing some interesting things for TV. Dark was one of the best time travel stories I've watched (just make sure to watch it in German w/ subtitles because the dubbing is horrible.)

Posted by: who knew at July 03, 2022 12:34 PM (4I7VG)

485 Now hear this. The levity lamp is lit.
Posted by: Count de Monet

What has six legs and a bra ?

Peter Paul and Mary.

Posted by: JT at July 03, 2022 12:52 PM (arJlL)

486 139 A H Lloyd, how interesting. My novel is a giant F/U to Seattle progressives and everyone who votes for them. I'm furious and disgusted by their behavior when it's perfectly obvious they are supporting rapists of minor boys. They know exactly what they're doing and yet they do not care. The city is run by psychopaths.

Posted by: Tonestaple at July 03, 2022 01:07 PM (3qAOE)

487 Finished Red Shirts by John Scalzi. It's mostly well written and clever enough. And it's way more than the initial conceit of what happens when the red shirts realize they are cannon fodder.

I am not 100% sold on it as some parts annoy me.
Posted by: blaster at July 03, 2022 09:19 AM

I got a free copy with my Worldcon membership because it was on the Hugo ballot that year. (It won.) I thought one of the codas was okay, but the rest aspired to meh. The only reasons it won the Hugo was 1) Scalzi and b) The whole "red shirt" trope that you mention.

The fact of the matter is that I didn't think any of the nominated novels deserved the Hugo that year.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at July 03, 2022 01:46 PM (6jmQG)

488 I'm reminded of a scene in a Matt Helm story in which the sign and countersign between the Brits and Yanks were a phrase from the Declaration of Independence and one from the Magna Carta.

Having never read the latter, I would have failed that test.
Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 09:20 AM

I read The Magna Carta because they had a travelling road show about it that stopped in Houston and I helped organize an outing to see it.

Did you know that it calls for standardized weights and measures? It is perhaps the first document to call for such as a function of government.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at July 03, 2022 01:48 PM (6jmQG)

489 I read The Magna Carta. ...

Did you know that it calls for standardized weights and measures?

Interesting. Imagine life without such standards. The guy who swings the heftier punch gets his way.

I understand the Oklahoma Constitution includes a section regarding kerosene mixture.

Posted by: Weak Geek at July 03, 2022 03:16 PM (Om/di)

490 Last!

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 04:45 PM (/jQbM)

491 Ahh.. Renaissance Books! The airport location used to be their secondary location. The "main" bookstore was downtown, in two decrepit buildings that seemed to have holes made in the adjoining walls so that one didn't have to exit and enter again to get to the other half of the books. Four stories, bookshelves ten feet high, tables, stacks of books in front of the bookshelves, and random boxes of books scattered around for good measure. The snake trails led back to the registers, and I suspect they made this part particularly narrow so that it would be hard for any would-be thieves to sneak out of the building unnoticed, because even though the place seemed to be minimally staffed, there was usually someone at the registers.

I remember these huge windows looking out onto the river from the one part of the building and not really wanting to get too close because I wasn't sure how sturdy the structure was there all the way at the back.

As wonderful as it was to discover the place, my comment at the time was "It's amazing that the place hasn't been condemned." Well - the next time I came up to Milwaukee for a visit, it was.

https://bit.ly/3P1gMf3

Posted by: Katja at July 03, 2022 05:08 PM (GDvjU)

492 490 - Nope! It's hard to be timely on this thread when there's church (and getting kids ready for church) in the morning!

Posted by: Katja at July 03, 2022 05:09 PM (GDvjU)

493 Foiled by Katja! Curses. LOL

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 05:19 PM (/jQbM)

494 490 - Nope! It's hard to be timely on this thread when there's church (and getting kids ready for church) in the morning!
Posted by: Katja at July 03, 2022 05:09 PM (GDvjU)

493 Foiled by Katja! Curses. LOL
Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at July 03, 2022 05:19 PM (/jQbM)

And everyone checks back again and again.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 03, 2022 05:30 PM (cknjq)

Processing 0.05, elapsed 0.058 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0207 seconds, 502 records returned.
Page size 305 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.