Somebody shouldn't have trusted the science

PUNKED AGAIN? - SOKAL III

Ever since Alan Sokal hoaxed Social Text more than 20 years ago, and Peter Boghossian and his two compatriots punked several postmodern journals with total gibberish just a couple years back, you'd think academic journal editors and reviewers would be on guard against similar hoaxes. But apparently not Higher Education Quarterly (a Wiley publication) which is just out with a howler entitled "Donor money and the academy: Perceptions of undue donor pressure in political science, economics, and philosophy."
The study purports to demonstrate that "right wing" money is having a significant effect in pushing colleges to the right.

If you follow the link in the quote, you will find that it now says, ""This article has been retracted". Heh.

Hayward downloaded a copy before this happened.

Wiley is a giant organization. Their homepage right now features COVID-19 Resources for Researchers, Educators and Professionals. Trust them.

Back to Hayward:

The first sign this is a hoax is that the article says the two authors, Sage Owens and Kal Avers-Lynde III, are on the economics faculty at UCLA, but I can find no record of their existence at UCLA or anywhere else, and no record of other publications by either author.

The second sign is that their initials spell out SOKAL III.

Furthermore, QAnon has a lot more evidence that the Ruling Class is infected with a cabal of pedophiles than Wiley has of a proliferation of "right-wing content" coming out of universities. Does that make the reviewers at Wiley conspiracy theorists?

There seems to be no evidence that the "study" described in the paper was ever done. The study conclusions would have caused me to question it if I were a reviewer. Well, a rational reviewer, anyway.

. . . Receiving funding from right-wing sources has not only a statistically significant positive effect on perceived pressure to promote "right-wing" causes and candidates, but the effect size is large to very large.
Right-wing money strongly appears to induce faculty and administrators--including those who self-identify as members of the right--to believe that they are pressured to hire and promote people they regard as inferior candidates, to promote ideas they regard as poor, and to suppress people and ideas they regard as superior.

Like, which left-wing university candidates and ideas are being suppressed by right-wing money?

Hayward followed up on December 1, with a confirmation that the "study" was a hoax, via the Chronicle of Higher Education. Makes for fun reading:

The editors of the journal did not respond to a request for comment. Wiley, the journal's publisher, also did not respond to a request for comment.
But one of the purported authors of the paper did respond to an email from The Chronicle, writing that the journal "ought to be embarrassed" for accepting such obviously shoddy work. "No referee asked to see our data," wrote the alleged author, using the name Sage Owens, from the email address sageowens@tutanota.com. The writer declined to provide any other identifying details.
"No referee examined whether the list of universities was real," the author said in their email. "No referee noticed the Forbes ratings cannot be correct. Every page has some glaring errors, but the central error is that the regression model is all wrong. Peer review does not protect against fraud," the person wrote. "It should protect against nonsense and bullshit. In this case and in others, it did not." . . .
"We plan to reveal the full extent of this hoax later," the emailer wrote. "For now we recommend readers look for other fake papers."

Hayward found additional absurdities as he read through the paper. Here is one:

To facilitate blindness and ensure participant safety, faculty and staff lists were downloaded from university websites. Subject recruitment took place anonymously. Our survey program randomly emailed a subset of faculty and staff from each list, but we, the authors, do not have record of who was emailed or who responded. Thus, our survey responses cannot be traced back to any particular faculty or staff member, and so survey respondents were at no risk of harm by participating in our study.

The boldface part means the study's response data cannot be verified or replicated. Which is ridiculous. How conveeeenient!

The National Association of Scholars is piling on:

After the hoax was revealed, Sage Owens tweeted from her definitely-real Twitter account: "Can you find the other 15?" If the tweet is accurate, this may be the biggest scandal in the academic journal industry thus far.

The Twitter account appears to be gone now . . . .

OTHER THREATS TO HARD SCIENCE AND "SOCIAL SCIENCE"

OK, I have a natural tendency to want to "trust the science", at least where hard science is concerned. Not necessarily where the social sciences are concerned. But sometimes, the hard sciences and social sciences start to overlap with politics.

Many years ago, I read in either The Lancet or the BMJ the story of a clinical study auditor at a British university who found out that an MD had invented an entire clinical study of some hormonal drug on African women out of whole cloth. He was attacked by the university "community" - death threats and the whole thing - until he went public with his findings. And this kind of review was his job.

This was just a typical organizational response to a whistleblower. Whistleblowers need to be aware that this kind of response is typical. This paper, along with some experiences with government, tuned me up to notice other ways in which the "scientific method" is abandoned by "science."

I found the Richard Fernandez post on Post-Normal Science as proof of global warming, back in 2007, to be fascinating. Along with the companion post, What is Post-Normal Science?

The comment threads are extraordinary. But "science" has advanced since then:

These pieces help to explain what is going on with COVID-19 "science" now. I have a hard time keeping up.

Attempts to return some integrity to science

2018: How bad is government science?

2019: The Four Horsemen of Irreproducibility

. . . many researchers persist in working in a way almost guaranteed not to deliver meaningful results. They ride with what I refer to as the four horsemen of the reproducibility apocalypse: publication bias, low statistical power, P-value hacking and HARKing (hypothesizing after results are known). My generation and the one before us have done little to rein these in.

From September, Reproducibility in Research Is Needed

From a computer-oriented journal, it looks like. Is validation of computer programs used in research still required? I remember when it was.

Remember when Iowahawk taught us how to build our own climate hockey stick graphs?

To bring climate science back to today, CNN reported flaws in climate models on Thanksgiving Day. When no one was watching the news. Heh.

Music

Not everything has to be "science".

"Eight Candles", a Chanukah song.

The First Noel, Bryson and Tierra Jones

This performance was a special opportunity for us. The historic Tabernacle on Temple Square in SLC has some of the best acoustics in the world . . .

Hope you have something nice planned for the weekend.

This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.

Serving your mid-day open thread needs

UPDATE: Steven Hayward has posted another update on the hoax article, which includes a podcast and musings on "the nihilism of the modern left which cannot tolerate any disagreement or challenge to their position because it threatens their very being" plus the inability of others to mount an effective resistance to the extreme left.

Posted by: K.T. at 11:18 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Thanks K T. Nice music.

Posted by: Mrs. Leggy at December 04, 2021 11:24 AM (Vf4Y7)

2 If men can't comment on abortion why should unproductive people with no stake in the economy be allowed to comment on the economy?

Posted by: Brother Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 11:25 AM (eGTCV)

3 So...climate change must be stopped...and the right people must be punished? That it?

Posted by: BignJames at December 04, 2021 11:26 AM (AwYPR)

4 If men can't comment on abortion why should unproductive people with no stake in the economy be allowed to comment on the economy?
Posted by: Brother Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 11:25 AM (eGTCV)

Because that is racist.

Or something.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:30 AM (mR6Gs)

5 Might be back outside see you at lunch

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 11:31 AM (2JoB8)

6 At the corner of stupidity and hubris you'll find "science."

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 04, 2021 11:31 AM (BFigT)

7 Carried over from the prior:

452 I have a step ladder. I never knew my real ladder.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:28 AM (6FeV1)

This one had me laughing and coughing.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:32 AM (riNnz)

8 Hi KT!

Here's an example of lazy "science" for you. Since its inception as a medical specialty, Adolescent Medicine has relied largely on self-reported surveys and questionnaires to assess characteristics of the teen population. Because that's easier than actually measuring real values. So most of what doctors "know" about teenage behavior (sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, duh) is subject to distortion, over-reporting (braggadocio) or under-reporting (shame), and is so distorted as to be utterly disconnected from truth. How many teenagers are totally honest when their parents ask about drug use? The same question holds for "researchers".

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 11:32 AM (m45I2)

9 Whoa

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 04, 2021 11:33 AM (Do5/p)

10 There is no such thing as "right wing" money.

The leftists, commies and democrats have their money men, sycophants and dumb dumbs who donate and give money to their kolleges and other indoctrination centers and then there is everyone else, people who believe in freedom, liberty and leaving other folks alone.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 04, 2021 11:34 AM (R/m4+)

11 hiya

Posted by: JT at December 04, 2021 11:34 AM (arJlL)

12 Hiya Mrs. Leggy !

Posted by: JT at December 04, 2021 11:34 AM (arJlL)

13 Carried over from the prior:

452 I have a step ladder. I never knew my real ladder.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:28 AM (6FeV1)

This one had me laughing and coughing.
Posted by: BurtTC

Same here !

Posted by: JT at December 04, 2021 11:35 AM (arJlL)

14 Sorry there is so much reading in this post. There are some scientists out there who care about science.

There are also some scary people out there who are subverting science. And they think they have valid ideological reasons to do so. But they're not reality-base any more.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 11:35 AM (0ghg2)

15 Hiya KT !

Posted by: JT at December 04, 2021 11:36 AM (arJlL)

16 This country is lost

Though not as voraciously as many here, I do enjoy reading, especially history and biography, but lately I don't want to read any history about the United States or American Exceptionalism or other Patriotic bullshit.

As the past 5 or so years have definitively proven , our stated principles are totally out of whack with how rotten our country and our elite-- and increasingly, the average American is.

Covid--and our reaction to it-- has amplified this

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:36 AM (mR6Gs)

17 The study purports to demonstrate that "right wing" money is having a significant effect in pushing colleges to the right.

What "right wing money"? As far as I know, there are zero organizations or people who are right-wing who have money. All the rich people are left-wing elitists and all the influential organizations are left-wing. Discover the Networks. Nothing of the sort exists for discovering the right-wing networks... because they don't exist.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 04, 2021 11:36 AM (Do5/p)

18 It was never about the environment, it has always been about bringing "socialism" into being worldwide.

Posted by: Mister Scot (Formerly GWS) at December 04, 2021 11:37 AM (bVYXr)

19 Muldoon at December 04, 2021 11:32 AM

Wow. Seems so obvious.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 11:37 AM (0ghg2)

20 There is no such thing as "right wing" money.

Right wingers spend their money on beer, guns, cool cars and pick-up trucks, and good steak, not political ideas and ideals.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:38 AM (mR6Gs)

21 Hey, JT!

Posted by: Mrs. Leggy at December 04, 2021 11:38 AM (Vf4Y7)

22 There's so much fraud in "hard science," it's just not even funny.

For example, did you know the one "study" done about "shaken baby syndrome" is basically a piece of garbage that was written about 50 years ago? Maybe longer.

There's no actual evidence that "shaken baby syndrome" is even possible. Which is not to say that some of the babies that were injured were not abused, but there are many people in prison who swear they never did any harm to the child, and based on shitty research, overzealous "advocates" for shaken babies, and idiot prosecutors, lots of innocent people have been convicted.

Of a crime that's basically impossible to commit.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:38 AM (riNnz)

23 SPeaking of Universities, did you people see this : "A professor of English at Fordham University was fired for confusing the names of two black students after one arrived to his class late....he accidentally mixed up the names of two black students when one of them arrived late to class.

But the students, the Observer reported, believed that he misnamed them because of their race and raised the issue with Trogan, who promptly sent an email to the entire class apologizing for the mix-up.

But two days later, on Sept. 26, Trojan, who did not have tenure at the university, was placed on administrative leave over the incident. And a month later, on Oct. 25, he was fired."

Posted by: runner at December 04, 2021 11:39 AM (V13WU)

24 "...doesn't dismantle systems of oppression" = doesn't provide us with enough power to oppress the people we think need to be oppressed

Posted by: Emmie at December 04, 2021 11:40 AM (t62xj)

25 It was never about the environment, it has always been about bringing "socialism" into being worldwide.

Yep.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 11:40 AM (Xrfse)

26 Some data conservatives could really, really use before SCOTUS victory on abortion next summer:
What percentage of abortions are due to rape?
What percentage of abortions are due to incest?
What percentage of abortions are due to saving the life of the mother?
What is the abortion cutoff date in the EU countries?
What is the abortion cutoff date in North Korea and Communist China?

If you are a GOP candidate in 2022 and do not have these facts memorized, you are guilty of malpractice.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 11:40 AM (+W8+H)

27 Hiya, JT!

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 11:41 AM (0ghg2)

28 Commercial publishers are whores; they'll publish anything if it makes them money.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:41 AM (xtk6T)

29 How many teenagers are totally honest when their parents ask about drug use? The same question holds for "researchers".
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 11:32 AM (m45I2)

This is also the story of the "heterosexual AIDS" hoax that was perpetrated for decades. Based on self-reports.

When a real researcher went back and interviewed people, the vast majority of guys who claimed they got it from a chick, later admitted they were gay and/or I.V. drug users.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:41 AM (riNnz)

30 This timeline is Opposite Universe. I blame the startup of the Large Hadron Collider on 10 September 2008.

Posted by: Count de Monet, Unvaccinated Meatbag at December 04, 2021 11:41 AM (4I/2K)

31 Some data conservatives could really, really use before SCOTUS victory on abortion next summer:
What percentage of abortions are due to rape?
What percentage of abortions are due to incest?
What percentage of abortions are due to saving the life of the mother?
---------------------
My guess: no category comprises more than 0.1% of abortions.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:42 AM (xtk6T)

32 But two days later, on Sept. 26, Trojan, who did not have tenure at the university, was placed on administrative leave over the incident. And a month later, on Oct. 25, he was fired."
Posted by: runner at December 04, 2021 11:39 AM (V13WU)

Our elites and the institutions they run do not want ANY confrontations or conflict with black people. ZERO.

This is also why shoplifting is essentially legal in some areas. It's just to avoid confrontations or conflict with black people.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:43 AM (mR6Gs)

33 There's so much fraud in "hard science," it's just not even funny.

For example, did you know the one "study" done about "shaken baby syndrome" is basically a piece of garbage that was written about 50 years ago? Maybe longer.
-------------------

This is hardly hard science.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:44 AM (xtk6T)

34 Was just running an errand, and saw a minivan with a bumper-sticker version of Epstein's painting of Bill Clinton in a dress and heels.

I guess the message is supposed to be, "Google it, people!" But amusing, regardless.

Posted by: Geronimo Stilton at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (4kI4u)

35 After the apology instead of announcing the incident closed, Fordham decided to go for knee-jerk reaction and expose themselves to a lawsuit. I hope the prof sues their pants off.

Posted by: runner at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (V13WU)

36 I blame the startup of the Large Hadron Collider on 10 September 2008.

Well, that would certainly explain the clown universe vortex that we seem to have been sucked into.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (Xrfse)

37 Far too many people look to Science! to provide meaning to their lives. This is impossible: "meaning" is a precondition to science, and science cannot supply it.

Posted by: fledrint at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (xx4Eq)

38 How many teenagers are totally honest when their parents ask about drug use? The same question holds for "researchers".

I think that "self-reporting" as a means of collecting data on anything is asking for error. TiVo proved that Nielsen people are complete liars - that PBS and other socially virtuous programming were not being viewed anywhere near as much as reported.

Ask dieticians and trainers how honest their customers are when self-reporting; managers when getting status reports form their subordinates - particularly overseas where lying is not a vice.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (+LCoQ)

39 Zack Kanter let the cat out of the bag. It has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with punishing the Dirt People.

Oopsie.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (cSs/W)

40 Sorry there is so much reading in this post. There are some scientists out there who care about science.

There are also some scary people out there who are subverting science. And they think they have valid ideological reasons to do so. But they're not reality-base any more.

I have a small nit to pick. Scientists who become political no longer merit the title of scientist. If you consider anything other than the data, you're an ex-scientist, aka a politician.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (ZsR3z)

41
When a real researcher went back and interviewed people, the vast majority of guys who claimed they got it from a chick, later admitted they were gay and/or I.V. drug users.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:41 AM (riNnz)

Is it me, or is something similar going on with Covid?
Hardly a day goes by when some minor celebrity--the latest is some dude who was on America's Got Talent--dies of Covid, and their family let's it be known that they were UNVACCINATED.
Really?
How do we know it wasn't a drug overdose or something else?
It's always Covid.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (mR6Gs)

42 JOeF, you don't displease your own troops. Bad policy.

Posted by: runner at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (V13WU)

43 When you try to find answers to the abortion percentage questions, you see that the abortion aficionados stopped collecting the data, and any results are from surveys taken in 1987 or 2004. Even according to the abortion enthusiasts back then, 1% is rape, .5% is incest. I agree with Jay - even these minuscule percentages are likely inflated.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (+W8+H)

44 Federal grants have killed actual science.

Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (vrYHn)

45 After the apology instead of announcing the incident closed, Fordham decided to go for knee-jerk reaction and expose themselves to a lawsuit. I hope the prof sues their pants off.

I'm sure his fitness reports are being rewritten as we speak.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (ZsR3z)

46 There's so much fraud in "hard science," it's just not even funny.

For example, did you know the one "study" done about "shaken baby syndrome" is basically a piece of garbage that was written about 50 years ago? Maybe longer.
-------------------

This is hardly hard science.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:44 AM (xtk6T)

Medical research isn't hard science?

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (riNnz)

47 Zack Kanter let the cat out of the bag. It has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with punishing the Dirt People.

Oopsie.
Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (cSs/W)

The elite resents that many unsophisticated rubes who vote WRONGLY work hard and can afford nice things and go places only THEY should be able to go to.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (mR6Gs)

48 The English prof who got canned...? Yea, no fucks to give there. Had this creature overheard a white kid or a kid who was conservative mispronounce or mix up the names of two blacks he'd have gone off the rails.

May his new tenure be in a urine stained cardboard box under a bridge.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (BFigT)

49 Far too many people look to Science! to provide meaning to their lives. This is impossible: "meaning" is a precondition to science, and science cannot supply it.
Posted by: fledrint at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (xx4Eq)

F=ma. "But what does it mean?" Force, mass, acceleration. "But i mean, like, what does it meeeannn?" It means you're gonna be majoring in something with "studies" in its name.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (6FeV1)

50 Medical research isn't hard science?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (riNnz)
-------------------
Absolutely not. I've ranted on many occasions about the biomedical literature. It's crap of the first ordure.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (xtk6T)

51 The point of modern "science" is to serve the narrative, just like the point of modern newscasting or modern education.

From the leftwing perspective the point is power, the nominal ends they gain that power to advance are immaterial.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (ESjRY)

52 Federal grants have killed actual science.

It doesn't have to be that way. What's needed are politicians and bureaucrats who understand that the role of scientists is to do science, not bolster your political objectives. Sadly, such people are in very short supply.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (ZsR3z)

53 >There's no actual evidence that "shaken baby syndrome" is even possible. Which is not to say that some of the babies that were injured were not abused, but there are many people in prison who swear they never did any harm to the child, and based on shitty research, overzealous "advocates" for shaken babies, and idiot prosecutors, lots of innocent people have been convicted.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:38 AM (riNnz)

I wouldn't be surprised. Look at all of the mothers of autistic children who were told it was their fault the kid has the 'tism because they're cold bitches.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (cSs/W)

54 Zack Kanter let the cat out of the bag. It has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with punishing the Dirt People.

Oopsie.
Posted by: Dworkin Barimen

Was the cat dead or alive? Erwin wants to know

Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (vrYHn)

55 When you try to find answers to the abortion percentage questions, you see that the abortion aficionados stopped collecting the data, and any results are from surveys taken in 1987 or 2004. Even according to the abortion enthusiasts back then, 1% is rape, .5% is incest. I agree with Jay - even these minuscule percentages are likely inflated.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM

As far as needing an abortion after rape goes, every single hospital has rape kits that contain the morning after pill. No need for an abortion later down the line if the woman takes that pill.

Posted by: Mister Scot (Formerly GWS) at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (bVYXr)

56 There's so much fraud in "hard science," it's just not even funny.

For example, did you know the one "study" done about "shaken baby syndrome" is basically a piece of garbage that was written about 50 years ago? Maybe longer.
-------------------

This is hardly hard science.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:44 AM (xtk6T)

Medical research isn't hard science?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (riNnz)

Sexual research, on the other hand . . .

Posted by: Count de Monet, Unvaccinated Meatbag at December 04, 2021 11:49 AM (4I/2K)

57 Every blue city is going to get tens of billions in "Covid Relief" funds to flush down the toilet. Pay off for the unpleasantness of 2020 summer riots and looting. I wonder how that compares to the riots of the 1960s.

Posted by: runner at December 04, 2021 11:50 AM (V13WU)

58 It's crap of the first ordure.

Heh.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:50 AM (ZsR3z)

59 Medical research isn't hard science?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (riNnz)
-------------------
Absolutely not. I've ranted on many occasions about the biomedical literature. It's crap of the first ordure.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (xtk6T)

ISWYDT. +1

Posted by: Count de Monet, Unvaccinated Meatbag at December 04, 2021 11:50 AM (4I/2K)

60 So...climate change must be stopped...and the right people must be punished? That it?
Posted by: BignJames at December 04, 2021 11:26 AM (AwYPR)

That Zack Kanter dillweed sounds like a prime candidate for Aero Pinochet.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 04, 2021 11:50 AM (P3gRi)

61 I have a small nit to pick. Scientists who become political no longer merit the title of scientist. If you consider anything other than the data, you're an ex-scientist, aka a politician.
Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (ZsR3z)

See: Anthony Fauci.

Posted by: Napoleon XIV at December 04, 2021 11:51 AM (AiZBA)

62 Hard science is stuff that can be falsified. Any "research" that cannot be falsified, or if contradicted is written off as "biological variation" is not hard science.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:51 AM (xtk6T)

63 Zack Kanter appears to be a woke-a-maton. A modern-day Stepford Wife.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 11:52 AM (Xrfse)

64
Peer review is biased and subject to influences hidden from the audiences of academic journals. Were these known, many revered works of science would be discredited.

My modest proposal to begin to address this would be for the names of the peer reviewers to be included with the article that they deemed worth of publication. As they had already passed judgement on the work, the revelation of the reviewers' names would not compromise the review process.

Laying bare the bones of "my best academic buddies" and how such cronyism pervades the vaunted peer review process would open many eyes.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 04, 2021 11:52 AM (3l5Yq)

65 >Is it me, or is something similar going on with Covid?

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:46 AM (mR6Gs)

I believe that it's nearly impossible to garner any meaningful information from the "data" provided about coof, especially in the United States. The data is massaged, pencil-whipped, and outright manipulated as a high-level policy to give cover to the government's desired policies.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:52 AM (cSs/W)

66 "Eight Candles" makes me feel good. Thank you, K.T.

Posted by: creeper at December 04, 2021 11:52 AM (cTCuP)

67 There's so much fraud in "hard science," it's just not even funny... This is hardly hard science.

What exactly is "hard science"?

The Boeing engineers on the 787 or the General Electric GEnx engines are using what I think is "hard science" when it comes to metallurgy, aerodynamics, materials research, flow and turbulence along with the more traditional work in electrical, mechanical and hydraulic engineering.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 11:53 AM (+LCoQ)

68 BTW, who's Zack Kanter?

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 11:53 AM (eGTCV)

69 This is hilarious! The ones who pulled this off are guys after my own heart - identify a conclusion you know they want to hear, make up a ridiculous "study" claiming to prove it, and then send it through the system knowing that no one will dare to question it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 04, 2021 11:53 AM (LkzOc)

70 A core point of science, well real science, is to aggressively attempt to disprove existing theories.

What percentage of federal research grants go for that? And what happens to researchers that invalidate core pieces of modern leftist dogma?

Keep in mind the breathtaking advances in science from the 1800/1900s were largely centered around scientists disproving things and then collectively coming up with new theories that better fit the new data.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 04, 2021 11:53 AM (ESjRY)

71 Medical research isn't hard science?
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (riNnz)
-------------------
Absolutely not. I've ranted on many occasions about the biomedical literature. It's crap of the first ordure.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (xtk6T)

Well, I won't argue the definition of "hard science," but one would HOPE medical research is subject to the same arduous standards, and obviously it's not that way in practice.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:54 AM (riNnz)

72 >The elite resents that many unsophisticated rubes who vote WRONGLY work hard and can afford nice things and go places only THEY should be able to go to.
Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (mR6Gs)

Yeah, there's definitely an element of those types preferring to be King Nothing of Shit Mountain rather than having a widely-prosperous society.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:56 AM (cSs/W)

73 Under my leadership we always aim for 100% success. And I deliver.

The AIDS orphans? Not a single one died from AIDS once I gave them my wonder drug.

I mean they did all die from the drug, but not a one from AIDS.

Now, remember to get your COVID shot!

Posted by: Tony Fauci at December 04, 2021 11:56 AM (ESjRY)

74 So is SoKal a joke for Southern Cal since this was purported to be from UCLA or is there some other thing it stands for?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 04, 2021 11:57 AM (r5BVk)

75 I've ranted about this before, but back when I was employed by NOAA I was surrounded by "researchers" and "scientists" doing environmental studies on a variety of marine life. Their sole mission was to get/raise grant money so they could hop-scotch around the world and rub elbows with others of their ilk.

Some of the most arrogant and self absorbed people on the planet. Not one had a lick of common sense either, nor could they tie their own shoes.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 04, 2021 11:57 AM (BFigT)

76 >Federal grants have killed actual science.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (vrYHn)

That Eisenhower feller was pretty smart when he warned to beware of a scientific-technological complex. Funny how that part is never mentioned these days.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 11:58 AM (cSs/W)

77 A note on the papers submitted in "sokal II" a couple years ago; they weren't just gibberish, they were much better than that. O e especially sent to a women's studies journal was highly praised for how well it grasped the difficulties women faced today.

Then the authors revealed that for that paper, they had simply copied out one of the chapters of "Mein Kampf" and changed all the pronouns to "she".

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 04, 2021 11:58 AM (LkzOc)

78 EU countries generally limit abortion on demand to the first trimester - well below the 15-week law under consideration by SCOTUS. They also generally require parental consent for teenagers and some require counseling.

The NorK, China, and US blue states are all good on abortion up to crowning, and pretend that "life of the mother" includes her emotional health.

Democrats in the US in 2020 blocked the Born Alive Protection Act, which would have required medical personnel to affirmatively provide health care to children born alive from a botched abortion.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 11:59 AM (+W8+H)

79 The AIDS orphans? Not a single one died from AIDS once I gave them my wonder drug.

I mean they did all die from the drug, but not a one from AIDS.

Now, remember to get your COVID shot!
Posted by: Tony Fauci at December 04, 2021 11:56 AM (ESjRY)

People can't seem to wrap their heads around the Fauci AIDS orphans, because it seems too barbaric to be real.

But it is.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:59 AM (riNnz)

80 What exactly is "hard science"?

The Boeing engineers on the 787 or the General Electric GEnx engines are using what I think is "hard science" when it comes to metallurgy, aerodynamics, materials research, flow and turbulence along with the more traditional work in electrical, mechanical and hydraulic engineering.

Well, it's certainly falsifiable. Does the plane fall out of the air? The line between engineering and hard science can get blurry.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 11:59 AM (ZsR3z)

81 I believe that it's nearly impossible to garner any meaningful information from the "data" provided about coof, especially in the United States. The data is massaged, pencil-whipped, and outright manipulated as a high-level policy to give cover to the government's desired policies.

Muldoon was whining above w/r/t the errors present in "self-reporting". I have a friend who is high up in the administrative food chain of a large medical concern. We didn't talk about the CoViD because I am tired of it, but she went on and on about how poorly documents at all levels are handled. Basically simple clerical errors to practically dumping file cabinets into the river levels of incompetence, apathy and laziness.

It is an absolute guarantee that the data are garbage and always will be because lack of training, apathy, stupidity, irresponsibility and to frequently, malevolence.

The problem is that instrumentation, while it delivers a level of objectivity, isn't calibrated or designed well enough to consider natural variability in that which is being measured.

"Look at the patient, not the equipment".

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:00 PM (+LCoQ)

82 Mein Kampf" and changed all the pronouns to "she".
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 04, 2021 11:58 AM (LkzOc)

Mein Krampf

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:00 PM (6FeV1)

83 I believe that it's nearly impossible to garner any meaningful information from the "data" provided about coof, especially in the United States. The data is massaged, pencil-whipped, and outright manipulated as a high-level policy to give cover to the government's desired policies.

I concur. Anyone who has put some thought into what's going on and done some digging into ever-shifting "official narrative" can't help but come away with grave suspicions.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:01 PM (Xrfse)

84 TBC, abortion is not my main issue. But if the GOP is not prepared for victory, the media/Big tech wing of the DNC is going to destroy the unprepared candidates next summer.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 12:01 PM (+W8+H)

85 But if the GOP is not prepared for victory, the media/Big tech wing of the DNC is going to destroy the unprepared candidates next summer.

Unlikely, but the DNC will try to maximize the damage. It won't be enough to save them, though.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:02 PM (ZsR3z)

86 I believe that it's nearly impossible to garner any meaningful information from the "data" provided about coof, especially in the United States.

Try to get meaningful data from them on dying from COVID versus dying with COVID.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 12:03 PM (+W8+H)

87 "Look at the patient, not the equipment".
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:00 PM (+LCoQ)

But we have that machine that goes 'bing'!

Posted by: Hospital Administrator at December 04, 2021 12:03 PM (4I/2K)

88 I have a step ladder. I never knew my real ladder.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:28 AM (6FeV1)

This one had me laughing and coughing.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:32 AM

Odd, watching "Lost Family" on the TV now. Show about researchers finding other folks relatives lost through adoption. Real emotional porn

Posted by: Javems at December 04, 2021 12:03 PM (AmoqO)

89 The problem is that instrumentation, while it delivers a level of objectivity, isn't calibrated or designed well enough to consider natural variability in that which is being measured.

"Look at the patient, not the equipment".
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:00 PM (+LCoQ)

The big term in my business that gets bandied about is "evidence based treatment," which to many essentially means "was there a study that purports to show the desired effect?"

If there is, the practitioner often stops there, and continues to engage with the same "treatment," over and over, even if nobody actually gets better.

The term "evidence based" is SUPPOSED to include the evidence YOU generate from your own efforts... is it having the desired effect or not? If it isn't, STOP DOING IT AND DO SOMETHING ELSE!!!

Too many practitioners forget that part.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:04 PM (riNnz)

90 Well dang if my mid-day open thread needs haven't been served! Thanks, K.T.!

Posted by: Weasel at December 04, 2021 12:05 PM (0IeYL)

91 >>> 79 The AIDS orphans? Not a single one died from AIDS once I gave them my wonder drug.

I mean they did all die from the drug, but not a one from AIDS.

Now, remember to get your COVID shot!
Posted by: Tony Fauci at December 04, 2021 11:56 AM (ESjRY)

People can't seem to wrap their heads around the Fauci AIDS orphans, because it seems too barbaric to be real.

But it is.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:59 AM (riNnz)

That, and / or the shrieking Karens refuse to hear or believe anything negative about their fake god.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at December 04, 2021 12:05 PM (llON8)

92 my mid-day open thread needs haven't been served!

Heh. That always provides me with a chuckle.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:06 PM (Xrfse)

93
People can't seem to wrap their heads around the Fauci AIDS orphans, because it seems too barbaric to be real.

But it is.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 11:59 AM (riNnz)

That, and / or the shrieking Karens refuse to hear or believe anything negative about their fake god.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at December 04, 2021 12:05 PM (llON

If corporate media hasn't reported on it, it didn't happen.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:07 PM (riNnz)

94 Absolutely not. I've ranted on many occasions about the biomedical literature. It's crap of the first ordure.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (xtk6T)

So my latest fascination is everything about insulin resistance since so many biomedical studies keep implicating it (to one degree or another) in a wide swath of medical maladies.

In reading stacks of published material, I am convinced that those who enter into diet and nutritional research are the equivalent of modern "journalists" and "educators" in terms of intellectual rigor, objectivity and honesty.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:08 PM (+LCoQ)

95 Is there even such a thing a non-evidence-based medicine?

"Doc, i got this bad headache that won't go away"

"Ok. We're gonna shoot a bunch of saline into your b-hole while you listen to Engelbert Humperdinck."

"... will that actually work?"

"Hasn't once yet."

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:08 PM (6FeV1)

96 The function of research has changed. The goal now is to affirm what your government masters want the unwashed masses to believe.

It's becoming apparent to even the most skeptical that COVID was and is a worldwide hoax.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 04, 2021 12:09 PM (BFigT)

97 In my career as a gas pipeline industry accountant, crap data was everywhere. Impossible to make heads or tails out of it for any meaningful business analysis. The financial executives just wanted pretty looking powerpoint slides to show the BoD.

It's not life and death like medical testing, or bridge building, but the rot is wide and deep.

Posted by: Count de Monet, Unvaccinated Meatbag at December 04, 2021 12:09 PM (4I/2K)

98 >I've ranted about this before, but back when I was employed by NOAA I was surrounded by "researchers" and "scientists" doing environmental studies on a variety of marine life. Their sole mission was to get/raise grant money so they could hop-scotch around the world and rub elbows with others of their ilk.

Some of the most arrogant and self absorbed people on the planet. Not one had a lick of common sense either, nor could they tie their own shoes.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 04, 2021 11:57 AM (BFigT)

We briefly made friends with a couple that were both uni professors, but whose main job was literally just writing grant proposals. They did a little bit of teaching, but nearly all of their efforts were put into begging for that sweet, sweet lucre from Uncle Sugar.

We stopped being friends because while the husband was always nice and seemed pretty well-grounded to us for an academic, the wife turned out to be quite the selfish, arrogant bitch who apparently just used people to her benefit.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:09 PM (cSs/W)

99 It's hard any more to take any "scientific" study seriously. So many have turned out to be based on made up data or political bias. I realize there must be honest scientists somewhere, but apparently they are not being published. The professional journals have made themselves into parodies of what they claim to be.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- bitterly clinging to the deplorable life '70s style! at December 04, 2021 12:10 PM (j0p94)

100 We briefly made friends with a couple that were both uni professors, but whose main job was literally just writing grant proposals.

There is an enormous amount of overlap between professor and used car salesman.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:11 PM (ZsR3z)

101 the washington post attacked the people who did the study,

yes there was smith richardson, olin, even scaife once upon a time, but they are outclassed by ford carnegie rockefeller, et al, not to mention soros and/or joyce foundation
rockefeller, had a head table at the wef wargame in 2019, soros and joyce fund the gun confiscation magic

Posted by: no 6 at December 04, 2021 12:11 PM (hMlTh)

102 Michael Crichton was prophetic as hell.

Posted by: CppThis at December 04, 2021 12:12 PM (UewuT)

103 "We stopped being friends because while the husband was always nice and seemed pretty well-grounded to us for an academic, the wife turned out to be quite the selfish, arrogant bitch who apparently just used people to her benefit."
Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it!

I didn't know my ex got remarried.

Posted by: lowandslow at December 04, 2021 12:12 PM (4thlk)

104 "Hasn't once yet."
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:08 PM (6FeV1)

Or... "doc, this hurts."

"here, take this pill."

*two weeks later*

"the pill isn't helping."

"you're just drug seeking, I'm going to put you on a list."

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:12 PM (riNnz)

105 It is an absolute guarantee that the data are garbage and always will be because lack of training, apathy, stupidity, irresponsibility and to frequently, malevolence.

I saw a video of a coworker's friend who is experiencing regular seizures post covide jab. The family took the guy to ER, docs couldn't come up with a diagnosis, told him to go home. They tried reporting the adverse event to VAERS and were told it didn't meet qualifications for AE.

The guy was healthy prior to the shot. He is in his late 20s. One of the most frequently reported AEs to the jabs is neurological issues.

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 12:12 PM (DJFLF)

106 I realize there must be honest scientists somewhere, but apparently they are not being published.

They really are, especially in the hard sciences, but one has to separate the wheat from the chaff. To my mind, an even bigger problem is the development of journals which publish pretty much anything, no matter how poorly done, because that's the only way a significant fraction of the world's scientists can stay employed. Publish or perish.

The development of the impact factor (which ranks journals based on influence and citations) helps with that, but is not enough.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (ZsR3z)

107 I concur. Anyone who has put some thought into what's going on and done some digging into ever-shifting "official narrative" can't help but come away with grave suspicions.

Since early February of 2020, that was a key duty in my day-time gig - to provide as much geospatial temporal data and analysis to big paying customers to advise them on their strategery for handling the "pandemic".

I think it was March of that same year when the data collected was shouting in unison "WE ARE GARBAGE!".

I could write a lengthy white paper on how that was manifest. IMHO, there is no way to materially improve it either.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (+LCoQ)

108 Oh was back downstairs
Said amazed that have yet to see Covid up close and personal

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (2JoB8)

109 The development of the impact factor (which ranks journals based on influence and citations) helps with that, but is not enough.
Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (ZsR3z

Impact factors are just a cute way of quantifying the circleyness of the jerk.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:15 PM (6FeV1)

110 I found the publicly available Covid data to be fairly good until about mid-April 2020. Then the torrent of bullshit opened up.

Posted by: CppThis at December 04, 2021 12:16 PM (UewuT)

111 Funny little story. Our home school group had a karaoke-and-pie night the day before Thanksgiving, just for that extra bit of carb loading. A kid asked my daughter to karaoke with him, to "Grandma got run over by a reindeer". She said no, telling him that her grandma was there and might not appreciate it.

Some little kids overheard that exchange, and spent the drive home that night telling their parents that our Grandma had been run over by a reindeer.

Posted by: motionview (prep train organize) at December 04, 2021 12:16 PM (+W8+H)

112 I think it was March of that same year when the data collected was shouting in unison "WE ARE GARBAGE!".

....
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (+LCoQ)

Tell me I'm not the only one who sang this in my head to the tune of the Farmers Insurance jingle....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:17 PM (6FeV1)

113 If corporate media hasn't reported on it, it didn't happen.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:07 PM (riNnz)

This is their guiding principle.

If Fauci is "science", the media is "news."
They cannot be criticized.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 12:17 PM (mR6Gs)

114 74 So is SoKal a joke for Southern Cal since this was purported to be from UCLA or is there some other thing it stands for?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 04, 2021 11:57 AM (r5BVk)

No. Alan Sokal, a physicist, wrote a paper proposing quantum gravity is a social and linguistic construct in 1996. It was published in the journal Social Text. Several months later, he revealed it was a hoax.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at December 04, 2021 12:18 PM (8C7+r)

115 The development of the impact factor (which ranks journals based on influence and citations) helps with that, but is not enough.
Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:14 PM (ZsR3z)

Bret Weinstein tells the story of how he discovered cancer research was making all sorts of mistakes, because the cancer studies all used the same mice, which had a genetic defect that caused the results to be skewed.

He tried to publish his findings, and got blackballed by EVERYONE, because nobody wanted to hear it. Eventually the problem got corrected, but not before the powers that be in the biological research mafia could take credit for it.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:18 PM (riNnz)

116 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge - Saying Jackson Sparks at December 04, 2021 12:18 PM (Zz0t1)

117 Plans for the weekend? Work on cars. Order parts.

Patch hole in camper.

Nothing fun, but at least productive, if I do it right.

Posted by: Sponge - Saying Jackson Sparks at December 04, 2021 12:19 PM (Zz0t1)

118 It's becoming apparent to even the most skeptical that COVID was and is a worldwide hoax.

Personally, I've never considered it a hoax, in the true sense of the word. Whatever its origin or the intent behind its introduction into the wild, it's amongst us. Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that it has been enthusiastically embraced by "our betters" in an all-out blitz to fundamentally change our lives, obviously not for the better. As an instrument for intimidation and control, the coof has surpassed probably even the wildest hopes and expectations of those who grip the reins of power and authority.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (Xrfse)

119 Man cannot change climate. Period.

Posted by: Sponge - Saying Jackson Sparks at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (Zz0t1)

120 Federal grants have killed actual science.
Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 11:47 AM (vrYHn)

Terrance Keely has a lot to say about this, both that government subsidy has never resulted in great advances in science (engineering maybe) and that the funds dumped into scientific research overwhelmingly go to fund to what the politicians want (or are told they want by politically connected researchers and research administrators) and smother out research that might be more useful and relevant to actual needs and concerns.

Dr Kealey has written a book about public funding of science, a book about the Mediterranean diet, and is kind of famous for saying that there is a great myth that scientists are objective and honest.

He is also a good lecturer, and has done a number of podcasts

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (ZMraq)

121 FIRST!!!!!
Posted by: Sponge

This reeks of privilege!

Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (vrYHn)

122
This reeks of privilege!
Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (vrYHn)

I literally JUST showered.

Posted by: Sponge - Saying Jackson Sparks at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (Zz0t1)

123 Somebody shouldn't have trusted the science

**

Speaking of, has anyone explained why the vaccine and the (identical) boosters are making so many people sick and dead when they contain absolutely zero COVID virus for the body to respond to?

Seems like that hasn't been talked about at all.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - no significant difference in ability to spread or catch regardless of vax status at December 04, 2021 12:21 PM (hjymu)

124 Deplorable Jay (r anyone else)
Are you seeing papers that are substituting computer modeling for actual real world data in the areas of interest you keep tabs on? And using the model to make conclusions of "fact"?

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (m45I2)

125 Screw this climate bull sh*t. Let's talk about something we can do something about...pollution. The US has done more in the last 40 years than any other nation. Time for others to step up.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (axyOa)

126 Man cannot change climate. Period.
Posted by: Sponge - Saying Jackson Sparks at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (Zz0t1)

There was an attempt to affect the climate by dumping Iron compounds into the gulf of Alaska, and the only result was a massive increase in the salmon runs.
So the Canadian government made them stop.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (ZMraq)

127
Heh. That always provides me with a chuckle.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:06 PM (Xrfse)
---
I'm pretty funny, but oddly WeaselWoman doesn't think so anymore!

Posted by: Weasel at December 04, 2021 12:23 PM (0IeYL)

128 I found the publicly available Covid data to be fairly good until about mid-April 2020. Then the torrent of bullshit opened up.
Posted by: CppThis at December 04, 2021 12:16 PM (UewuT)

I'm of the opinion that the Covid Fear & Panic & Travelling Road Show didn't actually start when Trump agreed to "Two Weeks to Flatten the Curve", but when Trump let it be known that he thought Easter of 2020 would be a good time to "reopen."

That's when they saw their potential coup power play slipping from their grasp and redoubled their efforts, all hands on deck, to keep it moving along.

THAT was when this truly started, and that was April of 2020

The Two Week Flatten the Curve would have been a mere hick-up, almost forgotten by now, had Trump gotten his way and reopened by Easter.

Posted by: JoeF. at December 04, 2021 12:23 PM (mR6Gs)

129 Plans- rorate caeli this am, tree trimming and football this afternoon, wrapping presents tonight

Posted by: LASue at December 04, 2021 12:23 PM (Ed8Zd)

130 There was an attempt to affect the climate by dumping Iron compounds into the gulf of Alaska, and the only result was a massive increase in the salmon runs.
So the Canadian government made them stop.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (ZMraq)

Literally ironic.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:23 PM (6FeV1)

131 Working on last of leaves, got further this year than last and seeing some of last year's in this pile.

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:23 PM (2JoB8)

132 Covid is a real virus with real dead people, it's just being horribly mismanaged and exploited by Smartest Guys In The Room types to obtain more power over others.

Posted by: CppThis at December 04, 2021 12:24 PM (UewuT)

133 I used to do empirical work including work with large datasets and have been a peer reviewer.

Essentially, the system is broken and the proliferation of advanced techniques, the emphasis on counterintuitive new and novel findings, grantsmanship, and networking cronyism, publish or perish, means that success is not measured in actual results.

Reviewers most usually do not have the raw data (unless it is a widely disseminated dataset), may not know or understand the particular mathematical and statistical techniques used in the research, may not be a specialist in a line of research, and can be overruled by editors 'just because'. As a result, only the most glaring errors are often detected by reviewers. But, just using basic logic and knowledge of research design, one can easily detect significant problems in a lot of published research. The move to profit controlled publishing makes it worse in that respect as quantity for the publishing giants is better than quality.

I do something else now as it was not 'science' as we understand it.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:24 PM (9hXN1)

134 I'm pretty funny, but oddly WeaselWoman doesn't think so anymore!

Eh, a few new jokes and a slight change in delivery will fix that. Heh.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:24 PM (Xrfse)

135 Impact factors are just a cute way of quantifying the circleyness of the jerk.

There's no difference between a paper in Physical Review B and one in Communications from Joe's House O'Physics? Come on.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:25 PM (ZsR3z)

136 The Reichstag actually did burn...

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:25 PM (6FeV1)

137 Screw this climate bull sh*t. Let's talk about something we can do something about...pollution. The US has done more in the last 40 years than any other nation. Time for others to step up.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (axyOa)

The exciting thing is that pollution is dealt with by increasing the wealth of a society. When people can afford it, they will pollute less.
This is done through cheaper energy and cheaper food production, which is hand in hand. Energy is wealth and always has been. The attempt to reduce energy for whatever reason has been an attempt to reduce wealth.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:25 PM (ZMraq)

138 124 Deplorable Jay (r anyone else)
Are you seeing papers that are substituting computer modeling for actual real world data in the areas of interest you keep tabs on? And using the model to make conclusions of "fact"?

Posted by: Muldoon

Yes, I do see that when I care enough to read some of the empirical journals in my field.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:26 PM (9hXN1)

139 There was an attempt to affect the climate by dumping Iron compounds into the gulf of Alaska, and the only result was a massive increase in the salmon runs.
So the Canadian government made them stop.

Why? I would have thought that was a good thing.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:27 PM (ZsR3z)

140 Deplorable Jay (r anyone else)
Are you seeing papers that are substituting computer modeling for actual real world data in the areas of interest you keep tabs on? And using the model to make conclusions of "fact"?
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:22 PM (m45I2)

I saw this with marijuana research. So called "studies" that were trying to determine long term effects of heavy use. Basically, there ARE no long term studies. Only computer projections.

So when you look at some baked dude, who's been toking for decades, and he can't remember jack squat about anything? Nobody's got any actual data, just anecdotal reports.

Nobody.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:27 PM (riNnz)

141 They really are, especially in the hard sciences

*******

Math is hard.
Science are square.

/Malibu Barbie, mixing up the memes.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:27 PM (m45I2)

142 >is kind of famous for saying that there is a great myth that scientists are objective and honest.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:20 PM (ZMraq)

It's bad enough that much of the general public believes that scientists are neutral, objective, and honest simply because they are scientists (the same types that lie to themselves that MSM news is also totally unbiased), but worse is the cadre of scientists who promote this view, knowing damned well it's not true in the slightest.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:28 PM (cSs/W)

143 name field test

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:28 PM (hjymu)

144 Covid is a real virus with real dead people, it's just being horribly mismanaged and exploited by Smartest Guys In The Room types to obtain more power over others.
Posted by: CppThis at December 04, 2021 12:24 PM (UewuT)

I stop listening to anyone talking about Covid deaths, whenever I hear "historically low flu death numbers."

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:29 PM (riNnz)

145 Ah, thanks Iron Mike. I was thinking it might be something more, I am not up on my hoaxers, other than fauci and smollett.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at December 04, 2021 12:29 PM (r5BVk)

146 Everything's hard.

Posted by: Malibu Barbie at December 04, 2021 12:29 PM (Xrfse)

147 There's no difference between a paper in Physical Review B and one in Communications from Joe's House O'Physics? Come on.
Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:25 PM (ZsR3z)

Frankly, no.

Joe's House O'Physics probably would not have the sheer temerity to publish a finding on surface reconstructions of ionic crystals that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the stupid fuckers did their entire project with a dirty AFM tip, then concocted up an elaborate model to explain all those neat recurring triangles.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:30 PM (6FeV1)

148 Are you seeing papers that are substituting computer modeling for actual real world data in the areas of interest you keep tabs on? And using the model to make conclusions of "fact"?

**

Please stop spreading this anti-Science heretical thought, because I've seen multiple computer models that clearly state this isn't true.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:30 PM (hjymu)

149 >Speaking of, has anyone explained why the vaccine and the (identical) boosters are making so many people sick and dead when they contain absolutely zero COVID virus for the body to respond to?

Seems like that hasn't been talked about at all.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - no significant difference in ability to spread or catch regardless of vax status at December 04, 2021 12:21 PM (hjymu)

It has been talked about in the places where the coof censorship hasn't reached. The spike protein, both wild-type and those induced by the mRNA shot, are a pathogen. Getting the shot IM is bad enough, but if they hit a blood vessel (and they sometimes will because protocol is specifically set for them not to aspirate the injection to see if they hit one) and the spike gets in your circulatory system, then watch out.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:30 PM (cSs/W)

150 I saw a video of a coworker's friend who is experiencing regular seizures post covide jab. The family took the guy to ER, docs couldn't come up with a diagnosis, told him to go home. They tried reporting the adverse event to VAERS and were told it didn't meet qualifications for AE.

Given staffing shortages, and by staffing, I mean qualified staffing, don't expect the situation to improve.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:31 PM (+LCoQ)

151 I did have a childhood friend who hadn't seen since I was a teenager who died of Covid. His father was a real big guy and suspect he would have been as well, he got it and died within days last Christmas.

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:31 PM (2JoB8)

152 >>> This is done through cheaper energy and cheaper food production, which is hand in hand. Energy is wealth and always has been. The attempt to reduce energy for whatever reason has been an attempt to reduce wealth.

If you like forests, drill, Baby, drill. Reduce people to scrounging for firewood and they will clear every tree in sight.

Posted by: fluffy at December 04, 2021 12:31 PM (UnQlg)

153 Everything's hard.
Posted by: Malibu Barbie at December 04, 2021 12:29 PM (Xrfse)

People keep talking about erectile dysfunction, we believe that is a myth.

Posted by: M. Monroe, G. Kelly, and A. Hepburn at December 04, 2021 12:32 PM (riNnz)

154
The first thing a referee does in reviewing a scientific paper is to see if any of their work is cited in the references.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 04, 2021 12:32 PM (0x8YM)

155 Nano Letters exploded in influence when nano became a not topic. They have a two step selection process. The first step is a yea or nay from the editors, usually within 24 hours of submission. If it's yea, that's followed by a more traditional peer review process.

There are problems with this approach, but on the whole, it weeds out a fair number of the inferior papers. I think it needs to be more widely implemented.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:32 PM (ZsR3z)

156 I stop listening to anyone talking about Covid deaths, whenever I hear "historically low flu death numbers."
Posted by: BurtTC

**

It's neat how the flu killed two or three hundred 5-11 year olds the year before COVID, then only killed literally one 5-11 year old the very next year while COVID coincedentally killed 167 5-11 year olds.

Weird, huh?

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:33 PM (hjymu)

157 * adds circleyness to dictionary *

My vocabulary has increased exponentially since I discovered the grey boxes. Yesterday it was embutthurted.

Posted by: Sock Monkey * jus a pohr wayfarin stranger at December 04, 2021 12:33 PM (vrYHn)

158 A common feature of medical (clinical) research papers is a broad overstatement of the significance of the results, accompanied by the CYA disclaimer that "more research is needed".

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:33 PM (m45I2)

159 Yesterday it was embutthurted.

Oy. That happened to Malibu Ken.

Posted by: Malibu Barbie at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (Xrfse)

160 >I saw this with marijuana research. So called "studies" that were trying to determine long term effects of heavy use. Basically, there ARE no long term studies. Only computer projections.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:27 PM (riNnz)

I think one of the most distressing trends in "science" is to equate numerical modeling with science. Talk about uber-pencil-whipping. It's a travesty.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (cSs/W)

161 The AIDS orphans? Not a single one died from AIDS once I gave them my wonder drug.
I mean they did all die from the drug, but not a one from AIDS.
Now, remember to get your COVID shot!
Posted by: Tony Fauci at December 04, 2021 11:56 AM (ESjRY)

There is a study out that traces the effects of Ivermectin on virus infection and replication on the cellular level. From the initial study it appears that Ivermectin has effect on a number of viruses, including both Covid and HIV. This appears to be an initial study

Ivermectin was discovered in 1973.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (ZMraq)

162 106 Pep...

High Impact Factor rankings didn't stop the most cited cancer journals from publishing loads of BS data over at least a decade. About 10 years ago, Nature published a commissioned review of the 20 (I think) most influential papers related to cancer (can't recall if cancer in general or a specific tumor type) published between the late 90's and mid 2000's. More than half of the manuscripts contained data that could not be replicated in an independent laboratory. And given that these "high impact" papers set the paradigm for the rest of us science schlubs, their malfeasance is compounded by who-knows-fold compared to a similar publications ending up in "lesser" journals.

Posted by: PacosMojo at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (KDhaS)

163 I've been looking for the vid, unsuccessfully, wherein an Aussie whistleblower nurse claims that the 'ro patients in AUS who are vaxxed are given IVM, but the unvaxxed are put on respirators to jack up the death numbers of the Unclean.

I can't locate the vid or I'd post it

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (DJFLF)

164 Joe's House O'Physics probably would not have the sheer temerity to publish a finding on surface reconstructions of ionic crystals that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the stupid fuckers did their entire project with a dirty AFM tip, then concocted up an elaborate model to explain all those neat recurring triangles.

Posted by: Warai-otoko

That is not my experience. People reviewing for PRB are usually highly motivated to show that they're paying attention. The consequences of approving a crap paper there can be dire to one's professional standing. Nobody reads Joe's HOP, so who cares if the paper just gets a cursory glance?

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (ZsR3z)

165
I have a step ladder. I never knew my real ladder.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:28 AM (6FeV1)

I have a step stool. I never knew my real stool.

Yup, went there ...

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 04, 2021 12:35 PM (3l5Yq)

166 Speaking of, has anyone explained why the vaccine and the (identical) boosters are making so many people sick and dead when they contain absolutely zero COVID virus for the body to respond to?

Seems like that hasn't been talked about at all.

So occasional fill-in Rush Limbaugh Show host, Todd Herman has ditched his commercial radio career to go solo and do podcasts. A major stated reason is that corporate media is universally controlled. On one of his podcasts he mentions several anecdotes from his network of reporter, journalists and hosts where they are in risk of losing their careers if they speak on certain topics that is in the least bit critical of the Official Narrative.

Big Pharma so owns commercial media that there will never be any honest discussion on the minuses of the mRNA concoction.

Also, your career is OVER if you are a politician and go against this mRNA nonsense.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:35 PM (+LCoQ)

167 Covid is a real virus with real dead people

Covid fatalities are about 3% of the reported 'died with covid' number, but sure there are some.

Some people get struck by lightning, too.

Posted by: Methos at December 04, 2021 12:35 PM (kOpft)

168 The statistical technique of "we controlled for all other variables and found that factor ABC resulted in a significant reduction in outcome XYZ" always piqued my interest.

I just wish Mother Nature would control all those other variables in the real world, dammit!!!

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:36 PM (m45I2)

169 >>> 156 I stop listening to anyone talking about Covid deaths, whenever I hear "historically low flu death numbers."
Posted by: BurtTC

**

It's neat how the flu killed two or three hundred 5-11 year olds the year before COVID, then only killed literally one 5-11 year old the very next year while COVID coincedentally killed 167 5-11 year olds.

Weird, huh?
Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:33 PM (hjymu)

The Omicron Variant will kill hundreds of children between the ages of 5 to 11 unless they take the vaccine and as many boosters as SCIENCE!, which I represent, directs.

It's totally not the vaccine causing any harm.

Posted by: Tony Fauci, Lover of Dogs and Children Too at December 04, 2021 12:36 PM (llON8)

170
I have some skepticism about chemical modeling considering we don't have an exact solution for anything more complicated than elemental hydrogen.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 04, 2021 12:36 PM (0x8YM)

171 So...climate change must be stopped...

It is concerning. If current temperature trends continue, we will be Ice Ball Earth by next August.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 04, 2021 12:36 PM (yQpMk)

172 It has been talked about in the places where the coof censorship hasn't reached. The spike protein, both wild-type and those induced by the mRNA shot, are a pathogen. ..

**

Sure, but I'm sorry I wasn't more specific and said "in the MSM."

Surely at least 25% of the 150M people who have gotten the shot understand that there isn't any virus in the injection and it's still knocking people on their ass.

But people don't seem to be wondering why that is. Just accepting it as perfectly fine.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:36 PM (hjymu)

173 High Impact Factor rankings didn't stop the most cited cancer journals from publishing loads of BS data over at least a decade. About 10 years ago, Nature published a commissioned review of the 20 (I think) most influential papers related to cancer (can't recall if cancer in general or a specific tumor type) published between the late 90's and mid 2000's. More than half of the manuscripts contained data that could not be replicated in an independent laboratory. And given that these "high impact" papers set the paradigm for the rest of us science schlubs, their malfeasance is compounded by who-knows-fold compared to a similar publications ending up in "lesser" journals.

I'm by no means claiming they're perfect, but see my #164 for an explanation as to why they generally do a better job. When you're a reviewer for the big boys, the authors are often able to figure out who the reviewer is. You'd better be on top of your game.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:37 PM (ZsR3z)

174 Everything's hard.

Posted by: Malibu Barbie at December 04, 2021 12:29 PM (Xrfse)

I'm not.

I blame the manufacturer.

Posted by: Malibu Ken at December 04, 2021 12:38 PM (kOpft)

175
It is concerning. If current temperature trends continue, we will be Ice Ball Earth by next August.
Posted by: G'rump928(c)

It'll be dark all 24 hours of the day, too.

H/T: El Rushbo

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 04, 2021 12:38 PM (3l5Yq)

176 We must change reality to fit the models. There's no other way and we're out of time.

Posted by: Count de Monet, Unvaccinated Meatbag at December 04, 2021 12:39 PM (4I/2K)

177 >>> 163 I've been looking for the vid, unsuccessfully, wherein an Aussie whistleblower nurse claims that the 'ro patients in AUS who are vaxxed are given IVM, but the unvaxxed are put on respirators to jack up the death numbers of the Unclean.

I can't locate the vid or I'd post it
Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 12:34 PM (DJFLF)

I hadn't heard that, but I wouldn't put *anything* past the covidian cultists.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at December 04, 2021 12:39 PM (llON8)

178 Nobody's got any actual data, just anecdotal reports.

Nobody.

Posted by: BurtTC

Running long term cohort studies is EXTREMELY expensive as you have to account at the front end for dropouts, oversampling of minority groups, and maintain contact with people as they move about the planet. For the most part, without a large profit motive or guaranteed funding for decades, these large scale studies are never done. This is why a lot of 'long term' research into diet, pharmaceuticals, drug use, etc. relies on 5-10 year cohort studies at the most or relies on data collected for other purposes. There is a similar problem in trying to detect interactions and 2nd, 3rd, etc. order effects. That requires more data to be collected which increases attrition in your cohort or risks getting gibberish through rolloff as bored respondents increasingly just are trying to get through the checklist of questions. Then, there is the self reporting problem if some of your data is collected that way.

BTW, anecdotal reports are 'data', it is just that it is difficult to make generalizations of cause and effect from anecdotes.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (9hXN1)

179 I think one of the most distressing trends in "science" is to equate numerical modeling with science. Talk about uber-pencil-whipping. It's a travesty.

If I see model, my entire interpretation of the article change. No longer am I looking at it to glean insights as to some discovery, but purely as a political paper.

A person should always ask about everything that they see published or broadcast: "Why am I seeing this article about this thing at this time?" Then you start looking for clusters. Then you know for certain that there is an agenda. Then you look for who benefits.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (+LCoQ)

180 The greater the fappiness of the pseudo-science, the larger the circleyness of the jerk.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (m45I2)

181 Son of a bitch. $400 plus dollars to repair the washer and it still doesn't work.

Posted by: Jewells45 deplorablethug#FJB at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (nxdel)

182 @173 (continued)

Nature and Science are also geared more towards the general reader. PRB is read only by the specialists. Finally, I have no dispute with Jay that the medical field is more prone to irreproducibility than the true hard sciences. That's why I used PRB as an example. That isn't to say physics and chemistry are perfect, but it's easier to control the variables than it is with people.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:41 PM (ZsR3z)

183 Q: Can a single individual perform a circle jerk?

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:41 PM (m45I2)

184 I wish I was smart enough to comment on this thread.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 12:42 PM (eGTCV)

185 Q: Can a single individual perform a circle jerk?
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:41 PM (m45I2)

That's called a Tuscaloosa Helicopter, i believe.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:42 PM (6FeV1)

186 Owch that hurts Jewells

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:42 PM (2JoB8)

187
Here's the thing about the "climate change models" in the UN's IPCC pool: they are forever enshrined in this grand canonical ensemble and they will NEVER be booted from it, no matter how shitty their predictions are. Because THEY ARE THE SCIENCE!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (3l5Yq)

188
A: Yes. If he is really fast.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (m45I2)

189 Not much more a could have had a new washer

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (2JoB8)

190 >A person should always ask about everything that they see published or broadcast: "Why am I seeing this article about this thing at this time?" Then you start looking for clusters. Then you know for certain that there is an agenda. Then you look for who benefits.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (+LCoQ)

You've got it. I can thank Rush (PBUH) for getting me started down this path with his "gravitas" supercut years ago.

Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (cSs/W)

191 A common feature of medical (clinical) research papers is a broad overstatement of the significance of the results, accompanied by the CYA disclaimer that "more research is needed".
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:33 PM (m45I2)

Yesterday, the artificially made up data point was at 10. After introducing the experimental variable, it went to 8. The control group went to 9.

Success!*

*Three months later, there was no difference between control and experimental groups.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (FNdgH)

192 If I see model, my entire interpretation of the article change. No longer am I looking at it to glean insights as to some discovery, but purely as a political paper.

We were always told to include modeling in our proposals. I don't dismiss its value, but I used it for confirmation of experiment, not as a standalone. If your model doesn't agree with experiment, it's usually the model that's wrong, but occasionally it's a symptom of a poorly designed experiment.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:44 PM (ZsR3z)

193 Covid is a real virus with real dead people

**

I think it was. I think now we're just pretending because it's so useful. I suspect it's about exactly as dangerous as any other flu or respiratory illness to the exact same people that the flu and respiratory illnesses are dangerous to.

Moreso now that medical boards and state governments ban actual treatments in the interests of hospitals collecting money for people dying with the proper paperwork.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:44 PM (hjymu)

194 I wish I was smart enough to comment on this thread.

I'm not but I did anyway. Can't help myself.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:45 PM (Xrfse)

195 The greater the fappiness of the pseudo-science, the larger the circleyness of the jerk.

Hey! How about a little attribution!

Posted by: Things Richard Feynmann probably said at December 04, 2021 12:45 PM (ZsR3z)

196 That's called a Tuscaloosa Helicopter, i believe.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:42 PM (6FeV1)

To Urban Dictionary!

Posted by: Insomniac - Outlaw. Sexual Racist. at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (lR7Oz)

197 Surely at least 25% of the 150M people who have gotten the shot understand that there isn't any virus in the injection and it's still knocking people on their ass.

But people don't seem to be wondering why that is. Just accepting it as perfectly fine.

People have limited bandwidth - some more than others.

We can only focus so much of our energy on one thing when there are a myriad of other concerns with greater immediacy and perceived impact.

There is a reason why the definition of vaccine was dramatically changed to accommodate the mRNA concoction - the average IQ is 100 and with all of the other things going on in the world, stratifying the mRNA as "yet another annual vaccine".

Then of course, there is the 800# gorilla in the room named "Nelsonian Inference."

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (+LCoQ)

198 A person should always ask about everything that they see published or broadcast: "Why am I seeing this article about this thing at this time?" Then you start looking for clusters. Then you know for certain that there is an agenda. Then you look for who benefits.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at

******

Yup.

Read every "scientific" paper with a skeptical eye. More so now than ever before. We used to have a little trust that peer reviewers were looking at submissions skeptically on our behalf.

And actively disbelieve any mainstream reporting about a scientific paper until you'veaactually seen the original paper.

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (m45I2)

199 Q: Can a single individual perform a circle jerk?

Spider man pointing at himself . gif

Posted by: Methos at December 04, 2021 12:47 PM (kOpft)

200 I am making cinnamon rolls. I will let you lot know how they turn out

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 12:47 PM (ZMraq)

201 I have a step stool. I never knew my real stool.

Yup, went there ...
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 04, 2021 12:35 PM (3l5Yq)

One more cup of coffee, and I'm gonna know my stool.

Real good.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:47 PM (FNdgH)

202 173...

High Impact journals account for the most retractions. researchgate.net/figure/Journals-with-most-retracted articles_tbl1_231742591 Now, that obviously is a result of heightened scrutiny due to increased visibility. That said, retraction rates are increasing, especially regarding studies coming out of China. And no one is willing (I'm talking to you NIH!) to point a finger at the fugly elephant in the lab!

Posted by: PacosMojo at December 04, 2021 12:47 PM (KDhaS)

203 kalisto, is this your video?
https://tinyurl.com/32c9b433

Posted by: creeper at December 04, 2021 12:47 PM (cTCuP)

204 I can not believe that sort of article gets published. Peer review used to prevent that sort of thing. One thing I noticed, the scientific press has gotten so overwhelming. I do not think anyone can keep on top of it.
When I started in science. I worked on a newly discovered cytokine called Tumor Necrosis Factor, TNF. At first, each month, I could read every article that came out with TNF in the text. But then more and more came out, and I could only read the abstracts for most articles(summaries at the beginning of scientific articles). Finally, there were 1000-2000 articles a month on TNF. I could not even read the titles.
It has gotten out of control. Not sure what the answer is. But I will say, some of the shxt that has been published on Covid.* Incredible. Those scientists should never work again. But they will.
*For example that vaccinated individuals would have better immunity than people infected with the virus. Complete horseshxt, which now has been shown to be horseshxt.

Posted by: MikeM at December 04, 2021 12:48 PM (oTuGd)

205 Then of course, there is the 800# gorilla in the room named "Nelsonian Inference."
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (+LCoQ)

Some dick knocks your test tube over and yells "HAAAA ha!"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 12:48 PM (6FeV1)

206 If your model doesn't agree with experiment, it's usually the model that's wrong, but occasionally it's a symptom of a poorly designed experiment.

Seems to me the critical step of "science" that is often ignored or downplayed, and that is formulating exactly how does one test their proposal.

In data science, it is like trying to discern the Feature ~~in a data set.~~

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:49 PM (+LCoQ)

207 Then of course, there is the 800# gorilla in the room named "Nelsonian Inference."
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (+LCoQ)

When that 800lb gorilla gets you in a half-nelsonian inference it's all over.

Posted by: Insomniac - Outlaw. Sexual Racist. at December 04, 2021 12:49 PM (lR7Oz)

208 And actively disbelieve any mainstream reporting about a scientific paper until you'veaactually seen the original paper.
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:46 PM (m45I2)

Well, every word, written or spoken, in the MSM is a lie plus reporters are stupid and lazy and never go against the agenda.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 12:49 PM (eGTCV)

209 BTW, anecdotal reports are 'data', it is just that it is difficult to make generalizations of cause and effect from anecdotes.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:40 PM (9hXN1)

Point being, everyone "knows" mary jane causes people to get real stoopid.

Fact is, nobody "knows" that.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:49 PM (FNdgH)

210 esearchgate.net/figure/Journals-with-most-retracted articles_tbl1_231742591 Now, that obviously is a result of heightened scrutiny due to increased visibility.

Agree.

That said, retraction rates are increasing, especially regarding studies coming out of China.

You read my mind.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (ZsR3z)

211 >>> One more cup of coffee, and I'm gonna know my stool.
>>> Real good.

You will probably cold-heartedly abandon it.

Posted by: fluffy at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (UnQlg)

212 Kindltot I have a better idea, how about I come over and try them?

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (2JoB8)

213 168 The statistical technique of "we controlled for all other variables and found that factor ABC resulted in a significant reduction in outcome XYZ" always piqued my interest.

I just wish Mother Nature would control all those other variables in the real world, dammit!!!

Posted by: Muldoon

Statistical techniques are guided by prior research as to what variables matter and which don't. Then you get into interactions between variables and various controversial ways of separating effects, plus there is also the 2nd and more order effects. In most fields of 'soft' science, frequentivist statistical models obscure rather than illuminate cause and effect.

We would do better to move to a probabilistic understanding of basically what are 'track odds' than the straight jacket of confidence intervals.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (9hXN1)

214 That's called a Tuscaloosa Helicopter, i believe.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

******

So 'straining my sacroiliac' is actually a euphemism?

Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:51 PM (m45I2)

215 Q: Can a single individual perform a circle jerk?

This is about me, isn't it?

Posted by: Kamala at December 04, 2021 12:51 PM (r5BVk)

216 Make some caramel rolls with walnuts and I'll be right over.

Posted by: lowandslow at December 04, 2021 12:51 PM (4thlk)

217 Well, every word, written or spoken, in the MSM is a lie plus reporters are stupid and lazy and never go against the agenda.

*

Did you know that the 5-11 year old vaccine is just a smaller dose of the exact same adult vaccine that has been given to 150M people in the U.S. over the last year?
- MSM

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:52 PM (hjymu)

218 Well, every word, written or spoken, in the MSM is a lie plus reporters are stupid and lazy and never go against the agenda.

There is its, folks. The closest thing to an eternal truth that you'll ever see.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:52 PM (ZsR3z)

219 You will probably cold-heartedly abandon it.
Posted by: fluffy at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (UnQlg)

With a casual flip of a handle, "get thee away from me, I never knew you."

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:52 PM (FNdgH)

220

I used to hear left wing media critic Eric Alterman say:

1. News media is owned by corporations
2. All corporations are right wing.
3. Therefore all media is right wing

Haven't heard from him lately.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 04, 2021 12:53 PM (63Dwl)

221 Fact is, nobody "knows" that.

Posted by: BurtTC

Burt, actually, we can do pretty well with repeated anecdotal evidence to 'not do that' but you have to relax expectation that what you see in anecdotal reports applies to the entire group. That requires a probabilitistic approach rather than a always causes b.

Most people simply are not braced for anything other than two value logic.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 12:53 PM (9hXN1)

222 There is its, folks.

D'oh!

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 12:53 PM (ZsR3z)

223 LOL now the NBA will require additional testing for players who don't get a BOOSTER. The " fully vaccinated" goalposts are moving....

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 12:53 PM (CYnTg)

224 Friends gave me a couple of marijuana-laced chocolate chip cookies.

The one I had may have helped me sleep. But that is strictly anecdote.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 12:55 PM (eGTCV)

225 Q: Can a single individual perform a circle jerk?
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:41 PM (m45I2)

Recall those posters that show the mushroom cloud in the distance and you have only a few moments to bend over and kiss your ass goodby.
Then, then I believe a solo ciircle jerk is feasible.
We should test it.
I nominate Wash DC.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 04, 2021 12:55 PM (axyOa)

226 Do we nood on weekends? So many rules, so little brain.

Posted by: From that time at December 04, 2021 12:56 PM (4780s)

227 LOL now the NBA will require additional testing for players who don't get a BOOSTER. The " fully vaccinated" goalposts are moving....
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 12:53 PM (CYnTg)

I thought in basketball they used hoops, not goalposts.

Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:56 PM (FNdgH)

228 The " fully vaccinated" goalposts are moving....

And they will continue to do so. By 2023, the "fully vaccinated" will resemble human pincushions.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 12:56 PM (Xrfse)

229 197...

It's not so much a low IQ score, but a complete lack of curiosity. Average people used to be interested in finding out more about the world around them. For ex., millions of ordinary folks tuned into the Space Race. Teenagers built model rockets, read articles in Popular Mechanics and LIFE magazine featuring the latest NASA program, and were captivated by televised rocketing launches. Today, their progeny spends hours watching Tik Tok videos produced by certifiable mentally ill fruitcakes incapable of determining their own biological sex.

Posted by: PacosMojo at December 04, 2021 12:57 PM (KDhaS)

230 214 That's called a Tuscaloosa Helicopter, i believe.
Posted by: Warai-otoko

******

So 'straining my sacroiliac' is actually a euphemism?
Posted by: Muldoon at December 04, 2021 12:51 PM (m45I2)
***

A viable alternative involves a ritualistic dance called the Hoky Poky.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 04, 2021 12:57 PM (axyOa)

231 I just searched the page for remdesivir. Noone's mentioned it yet.

So...

Remdesivir.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain: Dandolo Did Nothing Wrong at December 04, 2021 12:58 PM (taEBS)

232 The " fully vaccinated" goalposts are moving....

*

It's also how they can keep explaining why vaccinated people keep catching - and dying from - the COVIDs.

They weren't FULLY vaccinated.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 12:59 PM (hjymu)

233 Not much into gardening so gonna hang here, at least until the thread gives up the ghost.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:00 PM (Xrfse)

234
We live in the most exceptional country on the planet, populated by an extraordinary people who are governed by the most unique political system in history.

I defy you to find a better example. And for those understandably discouraged and dismayed by the current circumstances, take a look back through our history, and you'll find we have met and prevailed over issues even more serious.

The ones who fight back are continuing the struggle of those before to ensure our nation remains alive--it's part of our heritage and must never be allowed to fail. Not an easy task but an absolutely imperative one.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 04, 2021 01:00 PM (KATBx)

235 That reminds me, I heard a pro-virus radio advertisment over Thanksgiving that encouraged people to get the shot because it had been proven to prevent death in 90% of COVID cases.

Pause to appreciate that for a moment. Re-read it again if you need to.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 01:01 PM (hjymu)

236 don't know if anyone mentioned this already: email from NY AG Letitia James, who's running for governor:

"... we need to continue to do our part to protect ourselves and others from the Omicron Variant. New York cannot heal unless all of us do our part. That's why I've called for a statewide mask mandate so we can defeat COVID once and for all.

"We need everyone - from those who live in the New York City metro area to those who live in our smallest towns upstate - to do their part to combat COVID. That means wearing a mask, getting a vaccine if you haven't already, and getting a booster if you are eligible."

[because we never learn when we're Democrats]

Posted by: mallfly the Peach of Hoboken at December 04, 2021 01:03 PM (Ynyl9)

237 Today, their progeny spends hours watching Tik Tok videos produced by certifiable mentally ill fruitcakes incapable of determining their own biological sex.

Pretty much. We've fallen down and can't get back up.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:03 PM (Xrfse)

238 You've got it. I can thank Rush (PBUH) for getting me started down this path with his "gravitas" supercut years ago.
Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (cSs/W)

Concur. Rush was great at exposing the left's "talking points". His montages of them parroting the same line were hilarious.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 04, 2021 01:03 PM (R/m4+)

239 Pause to appreciate that for a moment. Re-read it again if you need to.
Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 01:01 PM (hjymu)

... well i guess the other 10% ain't talking, are they?

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:03 PM (6FeV1)

240 In our "1984" double-speak world, safe and effective doesn't actually mean non-harming and useful.

Posted by: Kamala at December 04, 2021 01:04 PM (r5BVk)

241 I remember the "Trump Russia Possible Collusion" music video.... seems so quaint now.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:05 PM (6FeV1)

242 Get the vaccine and 90% of you will survive COVID !( as opposed to 99.65% survival rate overall?)

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:05 PM (CYnTg)

243 There is a thing in aerospace engineering, could be other industries, I don't know, called conformity. And in the context of testing, research, and analysis validation it pertains to the testers ensuring that the single instance of the thing they are testing is a valid representation of any and all future instances of that thing. This conformity must be done as it is required by federal regulation. Like any CFR 14 the rule is there because at some point in the past someone screwed up and people died. In this instance a company was tweaking their test aircraft enough during FAA compliance tests that the test aircraft diverged in strength significantly from what would be the production aircraft and later one failed in operation.

Conformity is a big deal in testing and there's whole groups that go down lists of every part ensuring it is the same as the production build.

I look at all this shit and it would never go down in engineering. Your test must conform to reality. Your analysis must be validated by the test results of the conformed test article. What I do is a million times more complex than what these social science dimwits do and I know they could follow the same rules.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:05 PM (XXeDg)

244 nood

plants

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:06 PM (XXeDg)

245 When that 800lb gorilla gets you in a half-nelsonian inference it's all over.

I think that the Half-Nelsonian is when you moved into a house that has high voltage power lines running over it, your neighbor gets diagnosed with brain cancer, your cell phone reception fails from room to room and your dog is acting weird.

You heard things about high voltage lines from dubious sources, but don't want to actually research it because if it is bad, then you might be compelled to move and you don't want to go through all of the hassles.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:06 PM (+LCoQ)

246 They won't let it go

DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (CYnTg)

247 238 You've got it. I can thank Rush (PBUH) for getting me started down this path with his "gravitas" supercut years ago.
Posted by: Dworkin Barimen - anarcho-tyranny? you're soaking in it! at December 04, 2021 12:43 PM (cSs/W)

Concur. Rush was great at exposing the left's "talking points". His montages of them parroting the same line were hilarious.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 04, 2021 01:03 PM (R/m4+)

The media is always on the same page about everything. When transgendering became a thing the media was instantly saying the same thing.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (eGTCV)

248 Today, their progeny spends hours watching Tik Tok videos produced by certifiable mentally ill fruitcakes incapable of determining their own biological sex.
Posted by: PacosMojo at December 04, 2021 12:57 PM (KDhaS)

Yup...watching TikTok crap while washing down their suboxone tabs with a diet coke.

Zombie Land.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (R/m4+)

249 Still don't get the AoSHq doldrums between 3:10 and 5:30 or so until chess dress thread.

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (2JoB8)

250 DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (CYnTg)

We swear that these findings are factual and accurate, and if you don't like them, we have others.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:08 PM (6FeV1)

251 Qualifying over, back outside

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 01:09 PM (2JoB8)

252 DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report

**

At least they're not saying they can't release it until 2076 like the FDA has told people about the safety trials of the vaccines.

100 days to approve it, 50 years to release it.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 5-11 year old vaccine formulation was not tested, clinical studies 'not required' at December 04, 2021 01:10 PM (hjymu)

253 Chilling.

Extremely high rate of stillbirths in Canadian provinces.

What did the mothers of the dead babies have in common?

https://tinyurl.com/52cbrw6k

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 01:10 PM (DJFLF)

254 228 The " fully vaccinated" goalposts are moving....

And they will continue to do so. By 2023, the "fully vaccinated" will resemble human pincushions.

Posted by: Notorious BFD

That is why the approach is doomed to failure without massive coercion by government and society.

Think that the annual flu shot uptake is about 40-50 percent annually and just crosschecked that with 2019-20 stats. Due to declining trust in vaccinations, that might actually dip this year.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:10 PM (9hXN1)

255 49 Far too many people look to Science! to provide meaning to their lives. This is impossible: "meaning" is a precondition to science, and science cannot supply it.
Posted by: fledrint at December 04, 2021 11:45 AM (xx4Eq)

F=ma. "But what does it mean?" Force, mass, acceleration. "But i mean, like, what does it meeeannn?" It means you're gonna be majoring in something with "studies" in its name.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (6FeV1)

BS. It means you know something about philosophy, which if I recall came long before any of the "studies".

Posted by: fledrint at December 04, 2021 01:10 PM (xx4Eq)

256 Get the vaccine and 90% of you will survive COVID !( as opposed to 99.65% survival rate overall?)

Or practically 100% with early MASKS+ treatment, rather than the abandonment and neglect that is in current medical fashion.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:11 PM (+LCoQ)

257 >>> They won't let it go

DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (CYnTg)

They always screw up sequels. This one will have a love interest, annoying kids, too much CGI, in fact they'll blow their wad on CGI and not have enough for good screenwriters and the dialog will be crap. There'll be one good line spoken by the main action guy and that's what they'll show in all the commercials.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:11 PM (XXeDg)

258 Gremlins is on

Posted by: Skip's Phone at December 04, 2021 01:12 PM (2JoB8)

259 257 I hope the CGI pee party seen is good...

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:12 PM (CYnTg)

260 Conformity is a big deal in testing and there's whole groups that go down lists of every part ensuring it is the same as the production build.

I look at all this shit and it would never go down in engineering. Your test must conform to reality. Your analysis must be validated by the test results of the conformed test article. What I do is a million times more complex than what these social science dimwits do and I know they could follow the same rules.

Posted by: banana Dream

You work in a system where the profits have to overcome the cost of compliance research. Plus the downside in actual liability for failures more or less requires due diligence. In social sciences, no such profit possibility exists (outside of maybe market research) plus there is little if no liability if the research is 'wrong'. Incentives then are very different than in engineering.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:14 PM (9hXN1)

261 At least they're not saying they can't release it until 2076 like the FDA has told people about the safety trials of the vaccines.

100 days to approve it, 50 years to release it.

The Fifty Plus Years part is a signal to you that the profits made by this scam have produced generational wealth.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:14 PM (+LCoQ)

262 I'd seen stats on the demographic breakdown of pregnant women who lined up for the shot.

Predictable, the greatest percentage fell into the Suburban Karen cohort: 27-36 yr old white female

The younger and browner the mom, the more resistant to the jab.

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 01:15 PM (DJFLF)

263 They always screw up sequels. This one will have a love interest, annoying kids, too much CGI, in fact they'll blow their wad on CGI and not have enough for good screenwriters and the dialog will be crap. There'll be one good line spoken by the main action guy and that's what they'll show in all the commercials.

"I'll be back"

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:16 PM (+LCoQ)

264 259 257 I hope the CGI pee party seen is good...
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:12 PM (CYnTg)

It'll be Hunter biden's body with Trump's gurning meme-head floating vaguely on top of the neck.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:16 PM (6FeV1)

265 Well I think Canada despite the efforts of the left is still overwhelmingly white

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:17 PM (CYnTg)

266 265 Well I think Canada despite the efforts of the left is still overwhelmingly white
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:17 PM (CYnTg)

The Great White With A Handful of Asians North

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:18 PM (6FeV1)

267 Wow. Just talked to my niece on the phone and was informed that we won't be seeing each other "live" again for a long, long time. Reason? I'm not jabbed. So unbelievably sick of this f*cking nightmare.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:19 PM (Xrfse)

268 I'd seen stats on the demographic breakdown of pregnant women who lined up for the shot.

Predictable, the greatest percentage fell into the Suburban Karen cohort: 27-36 yr old white female

The younger and browner the mom, the more resistant to the jab.

Now for the Nostradamus part:

Discovery of this side-effect will be exploited in view of any impending SCOTUS reversal w/r/t Roe v Wade.

Enjoy promiscuous sex without any of the responsibility? GET VAXXED! Own the Christers!

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:19 PM (+LCoQ)

269 We're in the middle of a Cold Civil War.

A Cold and Flu Civil War, that is.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:21 PM (6FeV1)

270 265 Well I think Canada despite the efforts of the left is still overwhelmingly white
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:17 PM (CYnTg)

My church has an Indian, dot, couple, at least two African families and two or three Filipinos in a small congregation.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 01:22 PM (eGTCV)

271 Banana Dream,
There is also the problem with any research involving humans is being able to define measures.

The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics summarizes a lot of definitions derived over centuries of knowledge. In a social scientist's case, how do you define 'trust in government' or an economist defining 'animal spirits' in such a way that everyone uses the same measure. Now, try to repeat that in Urdu, Mandarin, etc. and you will find your definition of that measurement drifting (leaving out different societal expectations on responding to impertinent questions). Medical research has a similar issue in that genetic variation means that people respond differently to stimuli and self reporting introduces another headache in such basic measures as 'pain' or 'mentally ill'.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:22 PM (9hXN1)

272 Predictable, the greatest percentage fell into the Suburban Karen cohort: 27-36 yr old white female

Face it, in the Life Unworthy of Life ideology, if there is a demographic that is worthy of being victims of genocide, isn't it the spawn of Karen?

Left to live, the little reprobate will likely experiment in transgenderism and whatever pyscho-suicidal buttfuckery that the Left is cultivating in the wings ready to go on-stage in the next Act of "Depopulating the Planet".

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:24 PM (+LCoQ)

273 I still have recurring nightmares of giant man eating CRC handbooks chasing me....

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:24 PM (6FeV1)

274 She used the word "safe" at least a dozen times in our conversation. Safe this, safe that. The Rush "gravitas" montage was mentioned earlier. That's pretty much what the conversation felt like. Never, ever doubt the power of propaganda. It's insidiously effective.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:25 PM (Xrfse)

275 Reason? I'm not jabbed. So unbelievably sick of this f*cking nightmare.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:19 PM (Xrfse)

I'm grateful my extended family is not paranoid about my Unlean status. When my cousin invited me for Thanksgiving dinner I informed her that my party is unjabbed. (there were three of us)

she asked why, I told her. Then she said . "that's OK come anyway"

I *did* tell her we were all on an immune support protocol though.

But I purposely stay away from elders in the fam due to my unjabbed state of being. I do not want to be the scapegoat in the event they get the 'ro.

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 01:27 PM (DJFLF)

276 246 They won't let it go

DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/

Posted by: steevy

When your entire worldview is based on religious axioms of who is good and who is bad, then of course the left can't let it go. That would mean their sainted Dems involved were evil and malicious in lying to the American public and would imply that the impeachments of Trump were similarly evil lies designed for political advantage rather than a righteous exercise in public morality.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:29 PM (9hXN1)

277 The historic Tabernacle on Temple Square in SLC has some of the best acoustics in the world .

Yes, in the sense that quiet sounds from one place can be heard clearly in unexpected locations clear at the other end of the hall. There's a story that one year members of the Choir learned the not-yet announced plans for summer tour because they overheard snippets of a whispered conversation between leaders up in the balcony.

The Tabernacle has it's own set of unique acoustic challenges. For example, when we do a recording session without an audience, Choir members are asked to bring blankets from home to throw over many of the wooden pews, to reduce the echo. This isn't as much of a problem when the benches are filled with people.

But there is an indescribable rush when you finish a number, singing at full voice, and after the number ends everyone freezes for several seconds waiting for the reverberation to die out.

Posted by: Half Dozen at December 04, 2021 01:29 PM (dJs6r)

278 She used the word "safe" at least a dozen times in our conversation. Safe this, safe that. The Rush "gravitas" montage was mentioned earlier. That's pretty much what the conversation felt like. Never, ever doubt the power of propaganda. It's insidiously effective.
Posted by: Notorious BFD

It's insidious.

Posted by: Infidel at December 04, 2021 01:30 PM (qpolg)

279 It would be so easy to save face by saying "Sure, these vaccines don't last forever, they aren't supposed to, but they got us over the roughest bit of it, so hurray"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:30 PM (6FeV1)

280 But I purposely stay away from elders in the fam due to my unjabbed state of being. I do not want to be the scapegoat in the event they get the 'ro.

Well, to whomever it is that created and fostered this environment of fear and separation, I say "mission accomplished".

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:30 PM (Xrfse)

281 It would be so easy to save face by saying "Sure, these vaccines don't last forever, they aren't supposed to, but they got us over the roughest bit of it, so hurray"

A useful definition of intelligence is the ability to adapt to new circumstances and environments. These are not intelligent people.

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 01:32 PM (ZsR3z)

282 274 She used the word "safe" at least a dozen times in our conversation. Safe this, safe that. The Rush "gravitas" montage was mentioned earlier. That's pretty much what the conversation felt like. Never, ever doubt the power of propaganda. It's insidiously effective.

Posted by: Notorious BFD

You see much the same reaction to lepers in the Bible so even absent propaganda, people fear what they do not understand. If your mind is closed to new evidence by dogma of being 'safe' then you will become increasingly disabled by fear. This will last until reality crushes their 'safety' illusions which is when it will get nasty.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:33 PM (9hXN1)

283 If the world ever returns to sanity I would be in favor of harsh punishment for the enforcers of covid fascism.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (eGTCV)

284 It would be so easy to save face by saying "Sure, these vaccines don't last forever, they aren't supposed to, but they got us over the roughest bit of it, so hurray"

That little phrase, inserted innocuously Right There is genius.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (+LCoQ)

285 246 They won't let it go

DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/

Posted by: steevy

Mueller somehow spent like 50 Million, and did not figure out that the whole Russia Collusion hoax was started by the Clinton Campaign... so yeah.. put that report out there.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (oHd/0)

286 >>> whig

That makes sense. But I'd also say that there's a lot of engineering testing that's done that is conducted in a perfectly reasonable fashion that produces crap results. Some you know going in that you'll have bad results but you're hoping something will be useful. Getting good per/Q or per/Mach data at high mach is difficult because if you're not testing a SS fighter your aircraft has nominal thrust around Mach 1 so you're diving steeply to get there and it's hard to take data. You do your best. Sometimes your results are crap for surprise reasons like a strain gauge or a pressure indicator falling off or dying.

But in all these situations you weigh your results with valid confidence intervals. And you test many more things than you need. You only validate your analysis to the degree of your confidence in the test. Likewise, we should place an appropriate level of value on these social science papers, and in many cases the appropriate value is none.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (XXeDg)

287 Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:56 PM (FNdgH)

From a prior thread, congrats on having met someone who turned your life around. To your credit you never acted like someone whose life was missing anything.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at December 04, 2021 01:35 PM (y7DUB)

288 That little phrase, inserted innocuously Right There is genius.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (+LCoQ)

This where all the cool modified limiteds hang out.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at December 04, 2021 01:35 PM (6FeV1)

289 284 It would be so easy to save face by saying "Sure, these vaccines don't last forever, they aren't supposed to, but they got us over the roughest bit of it, so hurray"

That little phrase, inserted innocuously Right There is genius.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (+LCoQ)

But then, it would not be a vaccine... They flat out lied that these Gene Therapy shots, are Vaccines, even going so far as to CHANGE the definition of what a vaccine is, as if THEY control language. The President of Bayer ADMITTED this at a conference awhile back, ie that they MISLED people because they knew folks would be hesitant to get a Gene Therapy shot.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2021 01:36 PM (oHd/0)

290 283 If the world ever returns to sanity I would be in favor of harsh punishment for the enforcers of covid fascism.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 01:34 PM (eGTCV)

Yes. Between the video of the young man seizing after the jab, and now the mounting evidence of miscarriage and stillbirth post-jab...I feel like crying. But I also would like to see justice done to the perpetrators.

In my lifetime.

Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 01:38 PM (DJFLF)

291 Is Benford's Law of leading digits frequently applied to spot faked data? It is a forensic technique applied in financial fraud cases, but I have not heard of it applied to scientific or medical data.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at December 04, 2021 01:38 PM (9EsIa)

292 Science has come full circle. It was science that threw away the shackles of religious dogma and superstition, but now it is being used to chain us back to religious dogma and superstition.

Posted by: I'm The Other White Meat at December 04, 2021 01:39 PM (Fs5vw)

293 Likewise, we should place an appropriate level of value on these social science papers, and in many cases the appropriate value is none.

Posted by: banana Dream

I would agree. In any research involving humans, it is best to use the old 'track odds' estimation than any rigorous interpretation of the data. Most of the social research is 'cargo cult' understanding of science. I started in the natural sciences and computer programming so my assumptions and expectations were far different. In essence, social science is still in the analog stage like when you used to try to tune an AM radio to get the best long distance signal at night by moving the dial back and forth. There is a signal there but it is often hidden, foggy, and full of distortion.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:41 PM (9hXN1)

294 How true 292

Posted by: Skip's Phone at December 04, 2021 01:42 PM (2JoB8)

295 >>> But then, it would not be a vaccine... They flat out lied that these Gene Therapy shots, are Vaccines, even going so far as to CHANGE the definition of what a vaccine is, as if THEY control language. The President of Bayer ADMITTED this at a conference awhile back, ie that they MISLED people because they knew folks would be hesitant to get a Gene Therapy shot.
Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2021 01:36 PM (oHd/0)

If you look at the new definition I'd like for someone to tell me how taking advil wouldn't allow me to say I've had the Pfizer vaccine and be completely correct. It reduces symptoms from the virus, it's taken orally, how does ibuprofen not satisfy the new definition?

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:42 PM (XXeDg)

296 291 Is Benford's Law of leading digits frequently applied to spot faked data? It is a forensic technique applied in financial fraud cases, but I have not heard of it applied to scientific or medical data.

Posted by: Ray Van Dune

You could try doing the keyword research in databases. I don't know personally.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:42 PM (9hXN1)

297 They won't let it go

DOJ considering releasing an alternate Mueller report
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/489209/
Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 01:07 PM (CYnTg)

You'd think after being smacked around 9-0 by the Supreme Court in the Enron case, including that bitch Ginsburg, Weissmann's credibility would be zilch. But true believers gotta clutch to anything.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at December 04, 2021 01:43 PM (y7DUB)

298 That Fordham professor that got fired is a DEI leftist.

Buh bye

Posted by: LOLGF at December 04, 2021 01:45 PM (gR5Gl)

299 You'd think after being smacked around 9-0 by the Supreme Court in the Enron case, including that bitch Ginsburg, Weissmann's credibility would be zilch. But true believers gotta clutch to anything.

Posted by: Captain Hate

Being a prosecutor in the US means that you never have to say that you are sorry. So, a valuable institution becomes degraded by people that have no skin in the game. That is the whole basis of Lawfare and without sanctions on its players, they will bring down the institution of rule of law.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:46 PM (9hXN1)

300 ...They flat out lied that these Gene Therapy shots, are Vaccines ...

But you will never be able to make that claim to an unwilling audience.

"Propaganda", by Edward Bernays, teaches that to really sell pianos, you can't just say "Buy My Piano, Its Great", because people have limited money and there are other things that are competing for that discretionary purchase.

What Bernays exhibits is the process in which a customer wants to buy your piano above all other purchases.

In the propaganda war, you must first open up an agreement, which Warai-otoko does several times in the statement, the inclusion "they aren't supposed to" buried in the agreeable statements allows the mark to become emotionally open to the mRNA not being a miracle, but a fit-for-purpose intervention in the C19 "pandemic".

Now it is easier to pitch C19 as a bump in the historic road, the Vaxx as being a temporary tactic, and thus the tyranny and panic around it as unnecessary.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:46 PM (+LCoQ)

301 Half Dozen at December 04, 2021 01:29 PM

I know someone who was in the Choir, and I have never heard about the blankets.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 01:48 PM (0ghg2)

302 >>> That Fordham professor that got fired is a DEI leftist.

Buh bye
Posted by: LOLGF at December 04, 2021 01:45 PM (gR5Gl)

It seems like his defense is that he may have cocked it, shaken it around a bit, but he never pulled the trigger.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:49 PM (XXeDg)

303 I will end my current diatribe by saying that possibly the most disturbing thing in the conversation I had with my family member was the oh-so-subtle suggestion that I was somehow to blame for the situation. A guilt trip is a powerful weapon. Get jabbed and all is forgiven and copacetic. Well, f*ck that noise.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:50 PM (Xrfse)

304 >>>One of the most frequently reported AEs to the jabs is neurological issues.
Posted by: kallisto at December 04, 2021 12:12 PM (DJFLF)

=====

Anecdotal, but while i was admitted, one of my covid nurses told me this is what they were seeing with young people who took the vax.

Posted by: Turn two at December 04, 2021 01:53 PM (V//6K)

305 >>You'd think after being smacked around 9-0 by the Supreme Court in the Enron case, including that bitch Ginsburg, Weissmann's credibility would be zilch. But true believers gotta clutch to anything.

They are trying to get out ahead of what's coming.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 01:54 PM (ZLI7S)

306 DOJ wants an alternate report to comport with the alternate reality they live in.

The fictional one.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 04, 2021 01:54 PM (KATBx)

307 Being a prosecutor in the US means that you never have to say that you are sorry. So, a valuable institution becomes degraded by people that have no skin in the game. That is the whole basis of Lawfare and without sanctions on its players, they will bring down the institution of rule of law.
Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:46 PM (9hXN1)

The Founders didn't create the DOJ; rather a dim bunch of Congress critters did. Since the inclusion of Article V was instrumental in the Constitution being ratified, adding a flawed entity like the DOJ to the original document wouldn't have been well received.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at December 04, 2021 01:55 PM (y7DUB)

308 303 I will end my current diatribe by saying that possibly the most disturbing thing in the conversation I had with my family member was the oh-so-subtle suggestion that I was somehow to blame for the situation. A guilt trip is a powerful weapon. Get jabbed and all is forgiven and copacetic. Well, f*ck that noise.

Posted by: Notorious BFD

Whether they realize it or not, their beliefs are essentially religious dogma of clean and unclean and a parody of baptism by vaxx. But, as we speak, the ground is literally moving under their feet that these vaxxes simply do not work over the long term even to prevent hospitalization or death in some cases. So essentially, it has become a cost benefit analysis like a flu shot as to whether the possible known side effects are worse than getting Covid.

Ironically surviving Covid infection appears right now to give superior immunity to variations than any vaxxes currently on the market (unknown about future side effects though).

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM (9hXN1)

309 They are trying to get out ahead of what's coming.

Sincerely curious question here, JS. What's coming?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM (Xrfse)

310 Having sung in a precious few professional choirs in my life I will say this, there is no seat in the house better than on the stage. Being a part of a hundred vocally trained masters at singing, being one part of that instrument, feeling your whole body hum in sympathy to music is breathtaking.

It is something I miss dearly but I don't know how to get into it. It's been so long since I've had vocal training and practice. I sing all the time to myself and hearing my reduced range and vocal strength brings me down. My voice sucks now, I have perfect pitch and all the good that does me is lets me feel how bad my ear is now.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM (XXeDg)

311 Oh Nos! She Equips Herself is getting married
But will see the video if you can bear it

Posted by: Skip's Phone at December 04, 2021 01:57 PM (2JoB8)

312 I had with my family member was the oh-so-subtle suggestion that I was somehow to blame for the situation.

What I liked about the whole C19 "pandemic" was where all of the social masks came off and people really let us know who they are. It was like the compliance to NPI and now the mRNA shots was universally accepted as primary way to determine Bad People from Good People. (which is the best "morality" we can expect from an amoral and decadent population)

Get jabbed and all is forgiven and copacetic. Well, f*ck that noise.

Until they need to find another scapegoat, or someone to hate. It is human nature to stimulate and sustain strife.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:57 PM (+LCoQ)

313 >>Sincerely curious question here, JS. What's coming?

Well this for starters.

https://tinyurl.com/j6235rz9

And good news, Santa is doing well. I just saw him and Mrs. Claus arrive by boat to greet all the kids downtown.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 01:59 PM (ZLI7S)

314 banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM

I have sometimes wondered if I would like having perfect pitch. Sometimes it seems like it could be a challenge, when listening to certain types of music.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 02:01 PM (0ghg2)

315 I sing all the time to myself and hearing my reduced range and vocal strength brings me down.

Never was vocally trained or sang in a choir but did guitar/vocals in rock/blues bands in my "formative years". It is indeed rather shocking how the wheels begin to fall off of the voice wagon.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:01 PM (Xrfse)

316 307 Captain Hate,
Under the Constitution, it is not obligated to create ANY executive departments and that includes an army or navy. The Constitution simply grants that power to Congress to create the departments.

Essentially though, the existence of lower federal courts and any federal crimes necessitated creating federal law enforcement and district attorneys. That is simply something that could not be delegated to the states and it was clear by reading the Federalist papers or the debates in Convention that the new government would be able to address individual misbehavior without going through the states. Indeed, one of the flaw that the Framers meant to address of the Articles of Confederation was that the Federal government could not address the misbehavior individuals that violated national treaties, betrayed the country, etc. without going through the states which could and did block such efforts.

So, creation of the Attorney General and district attorneys along with the federal marshal service was in line with the Framers (not the Anti Federalists--see Brutus among others) expectations that the federal government's actions not be dependent on the states.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 02:02 PM (9hXN1)

317 Put on the Big 12 championship game first thing I see pushing people to " get vaccinated"

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 02:02 PM (CYnTg)

318
Sincerely curious question here, JS. What's coming?
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM (Xrfse)

The total breakdown of western civilization. Everyone is trying to position themselves for our eventual societal collapse.

It will be another "end of the world".

Posted by: I'm The Other White Meat at December 04, 2021 02:02 PM (Fs5vw)

319 Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 01:46 PM (+LCoQ)

Allowing your opponent to dictate the terms of the debate, means you lose.

Allowing them to outright lie, without calling out said lie, allows their propaganda to continue.

Just like the Manmade Global Warming 'debate'... where there has been no warming for years, yet no one is willing to counter their lie... so they continue to gain power, through said lie.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 04, 2021 02:02 PM (oHd/0)

320 And good news, Santa is doing well. I just saw him and Mrs. Claus arrive by boat to greet all the kids downtown.

Okay, I feel much better.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:03 PM (Xrfse)

321 Having sung in a precious few professional choirs in my life I will say this, there is no seat in the house better than on the stage. Being a part of a hundred vocally trained masters at singing, being one part of that instrument, feeling your whole body hum in sympathy to music is breathtaking.

My father was a member of The Vocal Majority, he did the combo with the Morman Tabernacle Choir. He reported the same thrill as to what you have stated.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 02:03 PM (+LCoQ)

322 banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM

OTOH, the forest would be a dreary place if only the bird who sang best dared to sing.

Keep singing.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 02:04 PM (0ghg2)

323 I remember when Bob Mueller did a nice impression of Joe Biden in front of some sham committee back a few years ago.

What a comedian...

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 04, 2021 02:07 PM (R/m4+)

324 >>Okay, I feel much better.

Well Santa was just a nice cherry on top. The Techno Fog article is pretty explosive.

Glenn Simpson is in deep doo doo. And the whole Mueller team is about to take a big hit in their credibility.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 02:07 PM (ZLI7S)

325 >>> I have sometimes wondered if I would like having perfect pitch. Sometimes it seems like it could be a challenge, when listening to certain types of music.
Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 02:01 PM (0ghg2)

Well in that case generally it's nice actually. Unless the person is just pitch poor, like a lot of broadcast talent shows it's easy to hear people off if they have bad ears. The band will try to help but there's only so much they can do. But in other cases a good singer will bend pitch intentionally at times to show emotion and I guess that stands out and has more impact with me. Also, I like weird dissonant stuff and over time have trained my ears to really like discordant combinations. Stuff that would repulse a lot of people. That's why I don't complain about weird modern art because some of that probably is pretty cool to people who have their brains wired differently than me so good for them.

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 02:08 PM (XXeDg)

326 Allowing your opponent to dictate the terms of the debate, means you lose.

I fully agree with that statement. I think the difference here is what is meant by "opponent". Family members are generally not "opponents", and rarely dictate policy.

Fortunately, the comity within our extended family excludes the foolishness of estrangement predicated on agreeing with or opposing Fauci.

For OPSEC and respect for other's medical status, what my plans would be for an escalation of the C19 Apartheid I will let be known when it is time to execute.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at December 04, 2021 02:08 PM (+LCoQ)

327 309 They are trying to get out ahead of what's coming.

Sincerely curious question here, JS. What's coming?

Posted by: Notorious BFD

There has been an AOS debate for years--JS among others believe that the initiators of the Russia fraud among other things will face justice of one sort or another. An equally vocal group of posters argue that nothing can or will happen to these depraved individuals.

Me, I'm agnostic about it--justice in this case may or may not happen and we will know it when we see it. It is also possible that societal events will supersede any particular legal proceedings. There are a lot of storm flags flying in Western civilization right now--rumors of war, societal breakdown, financial apocalypse, and plagues (manmade or otherwise). We are living in interesting times that at some future time may be marked as a turning point for human civilization for better or worse.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 02:10 PM (9hXN1)

328 I'm fortunate in that my whole family vaccinated and not are all on the same side. We had a good laugh over the ( was it Vox?) " wait in the garage for your test results before Thanksgiving"

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 02:11 PM (CYnTg)

329 Point being, everyone "knows" mary jane causes people to get real stoopid.
Fact is, nobody "knows" that.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 04, 2021 12:49 PM (FNdgH)

I used to tell my wife's old Korean friend, when she would barrel in and mispark her late model Accura across two parking spots, "Ajumma, this is how stereotypes are created"

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 02:11 PM (ZMraq)

330 Kindltot I have a better idea, how about I come over and try them?
Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 12:50 PM (2JoB

They smell wonderful, I can tell you that

Posted by: Kindltot at December 04, 2021 02:12 PM (ZMraq)

331 >>There has been an AOS debate for years--JS among others believe that the initiators of the Russia fraud among other things will face justice of one sort or another. An equally vocal group of posters argue that nothing can or will happen to these depraved individual

Did you read the article? You should, as a lawyer you will understand how boned Glenn Simpson is.

Besides, I've been told here for years that the process is the punishment. Simpson has been fighting a lawsuit against Alfa Bank for 4 years. How much do you suppose that costs? Or does that only count when it's one of our guys?

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 02:13 PM (ZLI7S)

332 That emissions illustration is the whole point of the climate change hoax. To reduce the power of the US,literally

Posted by: steevy at December 04, 2021 02:14 PM (CYnTg)

333 I know someone who was in the Choir, and I have never heard about the blankets.
Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 01:48 PM (0ghg2)

I have pictures, but we're not allowed to pay anything from "back stage." :-)

Posted by: Half Dozen at December 04, 2021 02:14 PM (dJs6r)

334 Kindltot if on this side of Mississippi can be there bt tomorrow, if other might take 2 days

Posted by: Skip's Phone at December 04, 2021 02:18 PM (2JoB8)

335 >>> Never was vocally trained or sang in a choir but did guitar/vocals in rock/blues bands in my "formative years". It is indeed rather shocking how the wheels begin to fall off of the voice wagon.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:01 PM (Xrfse)

I know it's all vanity. There were gals who tried out for choirs in college who told me the only reason was so they could be near and hear me. I was voted most talented coming out of HS. I had wedding gigs and church gigs, and choir gigs. It was the first thing, only thing, in my life I was just naturally very talented at, and everyone was there to tell me that. Over and over.

Like the HS quarterback, decades later caught dreaming of his glory days except it's choir, which I admit is really pathetic. So the young me, who doesn't exist anymore is giving the old me crap. But joining a small church choir again is on my list of things to do. It would do me good and I think God would be happy. win-win

Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 02:19 PM (XXeDg)

336 I'm fortunate in that my whole family vaccinated

I suppose that is one way of looking at it. Me? I'm concerned that my whole family is vaccinated.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:20 PM (Xrfse)

337 But joining a small church choir again is on my list of things to do.

You definitely should. I agree with an earlier poster - keep singing.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:22 PM (Xrfse)

338 310 Having sung in a precious few professional choirs in my life I will say this, there is no seat in the house better than on the stage. Being a part of a hundred vocally trained masters at singing, being one part of that instrument, feeling your whole body hum in sympathy to music is breathtaking.

Yeah, the loft in the Tabernacle really is part of the organ itself. To reach some of the seats the stairs essentially go through the organ.

And sitting in a passageway immediately beneath the organ during a solo performance is simply beyond words.

Posted by: Half Dozen at December 04, 2021 02:23 PM (dJs6r)

339 "post" not "pay"

Posted by: Half Dozen at December 04, 2021 02:25 PM (dJs6r)

340 331 Glenn Simpson thoroughly deserves legal jeopardy but whether or not he will be indicted is speculative and will either occur or not in the future. Whether he will be convicted is also a matter of speculation and in part depends on the jurisdiction where charges are made.

Many Mafiosi deserved legal jeopardy for example the hit on Castellano was widely known to be by Gotti and co. But, it took years for that and a flip of Gotti's key aide for him to face any legal consequences. Everyone knew Vegas of old was run by the mob but it took decades of patient work to bring the perpetrators to justice and the mob at the national level had no group of partisans arguing how they were righteous.

The truth in history is that often people do get away with crimes even for decades for a variety of factors. For example, see the Dreyfus case in France. One key to thwarting justice is when a large percentage of the population simply refuses to have its 'guys' accountable. That may or may not be present here.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 02:25 PM (9hXN1)

341 The Techno Fog article is pretty explosive.

Thanks for that. I read it and would tend to agree. I guess it's the age-old question - is anybody out there and is anybody listening? Does anybody besides us give a crap?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:25 PM (Xrfse)

342 I'm fortunate in that my whole family vaccinated

I suppose that is one way of looking at it. Me? I'm concerned that my whole family is vaccinated.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:20 PM (Xrfse)

I'm the only one I'm my family that hasn't been vaccinated. And yes, I have concerns about my family...especially the kids.

Posted by: I'm The Other White Meat at December 04, 2021 02:25 PM (Fs5vw)

343 I'm the only one I'm my family that hasn't been vaccinated. And yes, I have concerns about my family...especially the kids.
Posted by: I'm The Other White Meat

None of us in the immediate family are vaxxed. Not sure about extended family. The unknown long term side effects are what disturb me.

Posted by: Infidel at December 04, 2021 02:29 PM (qpolg)

344
It is something I miss dearly but I don't know how to get into it. It's been so long since I've had vocal training and practice. I sing all the time to myself and hearing my reduced range and vocal strength brings me down. My voice sucks now, I have perfect pitch and all the good that does me is lets me feel how bad my ear is now.
Posted by: banana Dream at December 04, 2021 01:56 PM (XXeDg)

Perhaps we'll see you in one of those Christmas singing flash mobs.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 02:29 PM (eGTCV)

345 >>Glenn Simpson thoroughly deserves legal jeopardy but whether or not he will be indicted is speculative and will either occur or not in the future. Whether he will be convicted is also a matter of speculation and in part depends on the jurisdiction where charges are made.

Virtually everything we talk about here is speculative. Do you remember the lively debates about the VA election that just happened?

The bigger question is not always indictments but does it change the way the country is going. I've said since day 1 that while I want indictments as much as anyone what I really want is my country back. What Durham has already helped expose is how "news" is created by 3rd party groups like Fusion that then sell it to willing media who no longer do their own investigative journalism and are all too happy to pay for crap that reinforces their beliefs and is often just made up BS. Like the Alfa Bank hoax that started the whole Russia collusion hoax in the media.

And now we know it wasn't just Fusion but private companies and universities as well. Just because the same garbage media that created this hoax doesn't breathlessly report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 02:32 PM (ZLI7S)

346 I will say that I had always considered having the ability to "carry a tune" and to be able to harmonize a gift and a blessing. I was no virtuoso, by any stretch of the imagination but it gave me many hours of joy.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:33 PM (Xrfse)

347 I love music but I don't sing and can't play an instrument.

Posted by: Northernlurker at December 04, 2021 02:36 PM (eGTCV)

348 And now we know it wasn't just Fusion but private companies and universities as well. Just because the same garbage media that created this hoax doesn't breathlessly report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Posted by: JackStraw

I was aware of most of this for decades. For example, the Kuwaiti government in exile pushing stories that led to the 1st Gulf War. Saudi and Chinese governments building political support by funding universities. Operation Mockingbird and the various LSD experiments involving CIA and research universities. The leak of the Rainbow 5 war plans shortly before Pearl Harbor. Jefferson using his Sec. of State money to subsidize his own partisan press.
Manipulation of the media by politicians and the Deep State has been around for as long as there has been a media.

Essentially corruption is endemic in any sort of large or small government whether a monarchy, a republic, or even a dictatorship. So the real question is how do you reform human nature? How do you structure incentives for bad people to be forced to do good things? How do you make people pay attention to things that do not directly affect them?

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 02:42 PM (9hXN1)

349 This just in:

Biden too busy to give interviews with the press. Listen to the description of his schedule in the video at the link.

https://tinyurl.com/ycknfk88

Posted by: pep at December 04, 2021 02:45 PM (ZsR3z)

350 >>I was aware of most of this for decades

You were. 95% of the public was not.

>>Essentially corruption is endemic in any sort of large or small government whether a monarchy, a republic, or even a dictatorship. So the real question is how do you reform human nature? How do you structure incentives for bad people to be forced to do good things? How do you make people pay attention to things that do not directly affect them?

You start by exposing it and showing people the little man behind the curtain.

Do you know who created the media pushback against the guys in CA who exposed PP? Fusion GPS. They made up lies about altered videos and fed it to the media. That's a big reason we lose so often, we lose the narrative wars and no group was more responsible than Fusion. And they are toast now. You can't fix anything until you identify the cause.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 02:49 PM (ZLI7S)

351 So the real question is how do you reform human nature? How do you structure incentives for bad people to be forced to do good things?

Benjamin Franklin, I think, seemed to think you needed a revolution at least once a generation to keep government in line. Once the bureaucrats lose their fear of the citizenry, I don't think any incentives are possible.

Posted by: Methos at December 04, 2021 02:51 PM (kOpft)

352 How do you structure incentives for bad people to be forced to do good things?

IMHO, bad people never do good things until either coerced into it or having experienced a complete spiritual/psychic change.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 04, 2021 02:59 PM (Xrfse)

353 Baylor is doing whatever they can to lose this game.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 03:03 PM (ZLI7S)

354 PET Nood

So it's been another good Saturday thought provoking thread
See you all next Saturday

Posted by: Skip at December 04, 2021 03:03 PM (2JoB8)

355 Baylor is doing whatever they can to lose this game.
Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 03:03 PM (ZLI7S)

It's been a terrible game of poor play calling and undisciplined playing. More like a preseason scrimmage than a matchup of two top 10 teams.

Posted by: Captain Hate won't forget Michael Byrd Murdered Ashli Babbitt at December 04, 2021 03:07 PM (y7DUB)

356 >>It's been a terrible game of poor play calling and undisciplined playing. More like a preseason scrimmage than a matchup of two top 10 teams.

Ugly game. I'm a defensive guy at heart but these offenses are just not playing well at all.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 03:14 PM (ZLI7S)

357 IMHO, bad people never do good things until either coerced into it

Notorious BFD,

That is why nations create laws to coerce them. Sometimes it works, often it doesn't. If the problem is bad enough in society, then you get draconian laws and no due process that basically eliminate safeguards for innocents. At a certain point, draconian laws produce their own injustices and society decides to chuck them or greatly reduce their application.

350 JS,
Exposure to corruption to the average Joe means little if the media does not ram through the lesson. In this case, that is a futile proposition by expecting a corrupt media to expose its own corruption and compliance in pushing forth the corrupt political narrative. That is what the real meaning of the Deep State is--or as Robert Dahl termed it, a deformed polyarchy where certain interests are baked into the cake. He had it as capitalism but it is beyond that.
There are certain interests of the state and the privileged that are not addressable except by societal upheaval. Then, the question becomes, is it worth it which depends on your definition of what is good, what is just, etc.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 03:15 PM (9hXN1)

358 >>> 331 >>There has been an AOS debate for years--JS among others believe that the initiators of the Russia fraud among other things will face justice of one sort or another. An equally vocal group of posters argue that nothing can or will happen to these depraved individual

Did you read the article? You should, as a lawyer you will understand how boned Glenn Simpson is.

Besides, I've been told here for years that the process is the punishment. Simpson has been fighting a lawsuit against Alfa Bank for 4 years. How much do you suppose that costs? Or does that only count when it's one of our guys?
Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 02:13 PM (ZLI7S)

Depends on who's really paying for it, now doesn't it. It's even better if taxpayers' money is used.

Posted by: George Soros at December 04, 2021 03:23 PM (llON8)

359 >>There are certain interests of the state and the privileged that are not addressable except by societal upheaval. Then, the question becomes, is it worth it which depends on your definition of what is good, what is just, etc.

Well we have societal upheaval whether we wanted it or not. The question is how it will settle out. I'm not ready to concede that we can't win. It's always a matter of degrees, I don't expect perfection because that is not possible.

Donald Trump did win the presidency against the inevitable Hillary so it is possible to win. And the extent they went to get rid of him was so extreme that half the country at least believes it was a rigged election.

We have been in the middle of a color revolution, the question is will we defeat it.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 03:32 PM (ZLI7S)

360 Update: Steven Hayward with a podcast an comments added at the end of the post.

Relevant to JackStraw's comment.

Posted by: KT at December 04, 2021 03:36 PM (0ghg2)

361 Btw, for some vax zealotry, go to arstechnica, which pixy often links to, find a vax article, and read the comments.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 04, 2021 03:40 PM (KAi1n)

362 'Well we have societal upheaval whether we wanted it or not. The question is how it will settle out. I'm not ready to concede that we can't win. It's always a matter of degrees, I don't expect perfection because that is not possible.'

Nothing is definite because people have free will and subsequent events can happen such as Russian troops apparently building on the Ukrainian border or an invasion/CCP supported coup in Taiwan.

Societal upheaval will require something a bit more than a coup by a junta where the outsider was expelled. To affect privilege, you have to largely replace and remove the ruling elites, lock stock, and barrel and win the subsequent counter revolution. If you are lucky, you get something like the English Civil War or many changes in regime in Latin America where civil society was reinstituted relatively quickly.

If unlucky, you get something like the French, Iranian, Chinese, or Russian revolutions that have implications and bloodshed far beyond mere internal rearrangements of governing institutions and new elites within a state.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 03:49 PM (9hXN1)

363 Vax status in my family is about 50/50 but weve all had ithe rona and recovered fine. I dont think anyone is getting any booster.

Posted by: LASue at December 04, 2021 03:55 PM (Ed8Zd)

364 I remember many years ago when liberated women were feeling guilty about putting their babies into daycare so they could work some smartass created a hoax study that kids were better off in daycare. Kids need the competition for attention and the unfairness of an uncaring world to grow into a tough and self actualized person capable of living in the modern world. That's right, kids need daycare because otherwise they won't get beat up. It was cited in several feminist literary efforts (by authors who had read only an abstract or summary, I assume) before it was revealed to be a hoax.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks Now With Pumpkin Spice! at December 04, 2021 03:56 PM (FVME7)

365 361 Btw, for some vax zealotry, go to arstechnica, which pixy often links to, find a vax article, and read the comments.

Posted by: SFGoth

I'd rather not. The idea that you can establish science through virtuous commentary is cargo cult science based on the idea that consensus of the masses is what science should reveal.

It is ironic, however, that true geniuses in science like Einstein, Crick, Edison, Tesla, etc. did not try to deplatform critics for denying 'science' or discourage attempts to disprove their hypotheses but instead used criticism as an opportunity to rebut their critics. Mediocrities need certainty from criticism; geniuses do not as correct work demonstrates itself by being confirmed by empirical results.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 03:58 PM (9hXN1)

366 If you don't get vaxed...I'll nuke ya.

Posted by: Humphreyrobot at December 04, 2021 04:00 PM (UvMeP)

367 364 I remember many years ago when liberated women were feeling guilty about putting their babies into daycare so they could work some smartass created a hoax study that kids were better off in daycare. Kids need the competition for attention and the unfairness of an uncaring world to grow into a tough and self actualized person capable of living in the modern world. That's right, kids need daycare because otherwise they won't get beat up. It was cited in several feminist literary efforts (by authors who had read only an abstract or summary, I assume) before it was revealed to be a hoax.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Far too many people, including 'scientists' start with the conclusions and work backwards to generate the results to prove the conclusions. Lewis Carroll made fun of it via his Verdict First, Trial later with the Queen of Hearts dialogue.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 04:03 PM (9hXN1)

368 It's difficult to tell where we are in societal change. Appearances are one thing and where one looks influences what he sees.

On one hand we have SFGoth's arstechnica, vax zealotry and on the other so many people with LASue's experience (even the brain dead know it's a farce).

Right now there is a great deal of theater and tug of war.
We'll have a much better idea where the old 30/40/30 demarcation has shifted after the November election.

Posted by: Braenyard at December 04, 2021 04:03 PM (FFsBN)

369 Braenyard, that is why I mentioned upheaval which is an imprecise word for discontinuity in societal expectations. For example in the West, we go from an era of faith to the era of rationality in history where enough dedicated people literally changed the belief system so that everything in society could be questioned anew.

Social change like climate change, is something that even the most rigid societies like N. Korea experience.

Posted by: whig at December 04, 2021 04:09 PM (9hXN1)

370
Yea, Alabama! Drown 'em Tide!
Every 'Bama man's behind you,
Hit your stride.
Go teach the Bulldogs to behave,
Send the Yellow Jackets to a watery grave.
And if a man starts to weaken,
That's a shame!
For Bama's pluck and grit have
Writ her name in Crimson flame.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at December 04, 2021 04:12 PM (yQpMk)

371
Fight on, fight on, fight on men!
Remember the Rose Bowl, we'll win then.
Go, roll to victory,
Hit your stride,
You're Dixie's football pride,
Crimson Tide, Roll Tide, Roll Tide!!

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 04:13 PM (yQpMk)

372 Not to change the subject but from that liberal English rag _DM:

How China is colonising the Commonwealth: As Britain beats itself up over our imperial past - and slavery - countries once loyal to the Crown are kneeling to Beijing which is building its own empire and enslaving a million Uighurs

Barbados this week became a republic. But more significantly, the West Indian island gained an emperor, Chairman Xi.

Posted by: Braenyard at December 04, 2021 04:27 PM (FFsBN)

373 And 80 gope critters voted for a federally funded max database.

Posted by: Infidel at December 04, 2021 04:47 PM (qpolg)

374 vax not max.

Posted by: Infidel at December 04, 2021 04:47 PM (qpolg)

375 I'm about to start drunk posting the SEC Championship. We need a new not-Pet thread.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 04:49 PM (yQpMk)

376
Are you seeing papers that are substituting computer modeling for actual real world data in the areas of interest you keep tabs on? And using the model to make conclusions of "fact"?

Posted by: Muldoon

Very late to this thread, but 'yes' I saw that 'the vaccine' used computer modeling to sidestep actual animal studies. I've also read that attempts to find a vaccine for prior covid types resulted in animal studies being halted because of vaccine failure and VAED (Vaccine-associated enhanced disease).

It's a disgrace and won't warrant mention anywhere important. But at least we here know, for what it's worth.

Posted by: Traitor Joe's Military Surplus at December 04, 2021 04:51 PM (dQvv7)

377 10-0 Georgia.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 04:52 PM (yQpMk)

378 Well, if you reference Bulldogs in your posts, Grump, it might pass muster on the pet thread.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 04:53 PM (ju2Fy)

379 TD 'Bama. Better now, Grump?

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 04:55 PM (ju2Fy)

380 TD Tide 10-7

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 04:56 PM (yQpMk)

381 TD 'Bama. Better now, Grump?
Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 04:55 PM (ju2Fy)

Yeah. To make a Madden, we have to outscore GA to wn.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 04:57 PM (yQpMk)

382 You guys playing cards?

Posted by: fluffy at December 04, 2021 05:05 PM (UnQlg)

383 TD BAMA!!

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:08 PM (yQpMk)

384 TD 'Bama. 13-10 Alabama.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:08 PM (ju2Fy)

385 14-10

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:08 PM (ju2Fy)

386 I met some guys from the film crew that shot American Underdog. They were checking out our church for a scene in their next movie.

Apparently they are the wholesome movie crew for Lionsgate.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:12 PM (yQpMk)

387 The play by play on this game is rather spare.

Posted by: fluffy at December 04, 2021 05:15 PM (UnQlg)

388 Bama gets the stop, but a good punt has them starting at their own 5.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:17 PM (yQpMk)

389 Bryce Young is very good at football.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 04, 2021 05:20 PM (ZLI7S)

390 17-10 'Bama

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:23 PM (ju2Fy)

391 "Can you find the other 15?"
What I'd say if I had posted and gotten published 12 or so of them so far...
Because you should look harder than you're looking.
And it's funny.

Posted by: ertdfg at December 04, 2021 05:26 PM (I388C)

392 This first half has been a heavy weight fight. Both side trying not to make a game losing mistake. Just still feeling each other out.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:26 PM (yQpMk)

393 Damn. 2 pass interference calls. Let 'em play, ref.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:30 PM (ju2Fy)

394 TD Georgia. Tied after PAT.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:31 PM (ju2Fy)

395 Nicely designed play for a GA TD.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:32 PM (yQpMk)

396 Nood Chest Thread.

Posted by: olddog in mo at December 04, 2021 05:34 PM (ju2Fy)

397 TD Young! Georgia way over ran that play.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) has drink taken at December 04, 2021 05:44 PM (yQpMk)

398 64 Peer review is biased and subject to influences hidden from the audiences of academic journals. Were these known, many revered works of science would be discredited.

My modest proposal to begin to address this would be for the names of the peer reviewers to be included with the article that they deemed worth of publication. As they had already passed judgement on the work, the revelation of the reviewers' names would not compromise the review process.

Laying bare the bones of "my best academic buddies" and how such cronyism pervades the vaunted peer review process would open many eyes.
------
Great idea!

Posted by: Ciampino at December 04, 2021 06:24 PM (qfLjt)

399 94 Absolutely not. I've ranted on many occasions about the biomedical literature. It's crap of the first ordure.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 04, 2021 11:48 AM (xtk6T)

In reading stacks of published material, I am convinced that those who enter into diet and nutritional research are the equivalent of modern "journalists" and "educators" in terms of intellectual rigor, objectivity and honesty.
-----------------
Graffiti in a toilet stall above the toilet paper roll, "Journalism Degree, take one ".

Posted by: Ciampino at December 04, 2021 06:28 PM (qfLjt)

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