Gun Thread: December 6th Edition! [Weasel]

Holy crap! Did I just type December 6th up here? How in the hell did it get to be December already? This week was another to hang around the casa (the house), but I am planning an epic and triumphant return to Weasel Acres, hopefully sometime this coming week, and have an idea for a video that I've been thinking about doing for a while. So if you're feeling down and low and depressed, now you potentially have that to look forward to! If I get around to doing it, that is.

Also, tomorrow is the anniversary of the Jap sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, now known as Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day. So take a moment and join me in remembering the brave men and women who lost their lives that day.

With that, let's see what we have below, shall we?

This is getting to be the time of year that will see fair-weather shooters beginning to hibernate. Believe me, it's no fun to be on an outdoor range on a cold, blustery day for an hour or so of shooting. It's much less fun to spend all day on a cold, blustery range trying to keep your toes and fingers thawed enough to come up to merely miserable, which will truly test your commitment to the shooting sports. Camp Butner in North Carolina hosts a multi-day long range Iron Man match each year in late November, and that was just long enough ago to remember freezing my ass off there fondly. Sort of.

Anyhoo, you may be finding your interest in outdoor shooting beginning to wane as winter starts to settle in. So what do you do? Well, if you don't have access to an indoor range, you aren't entirely out of options. There are any number of drills that can be done at home, for example the penny drill:

As mentioned in the video, either a penny or a dime will work; and you may want to start with a penny and work up to the dime, as your economic circumstances allow.

So Rolex Guy has another video on magazine changes that I thought was good.

This is something else you can practice at home with an unloaded! gun. Just start with the slide back, dump the magazine, reload, drop the slide and reacquire the target. There is a huge benefit in developing the muscle memory associated with this drill, because there are a lot of things going on. If you're fumbling around and dropping shit, you need to practice. Start slow. Speed can come later. Be able to do this in your sleep.

What else do we have...

Oh! Laser training systems! Truthfully, I started as a skeptic several years ago when these systems began to appear on the market. Over time, however, the products have advanced and evolved, and now to me seem like a pretty good at-home supplement to your training regemin. Plus, you're not burning expensive and hard-to-find ammo, so win-win. There are countless systems available, but since I haven't used them extensively I am reluctant to recommend any one in particular. So look around and read reviews. How about anyone here? Care to give us your thoughts on your particular model? Do you find it helpful and are you still using it?

Finally, maybe take the time to do a detail cleaning of your firearms. WeaselWoman is one happy camper whenever I drag out a bunch of weapons and spread them all over the diningroom table and let the Hoppes 9 flow. So do your 'ron or 'ette a favor and treat them to a marathon gun cleaning session!

Now let's see what else we have.

******

First up, our pal and delightful 'ette screaming in digital sends in a bigly grand and luxurious report! One of my greatest pleasures is helping new shooters take some of their first shots, and a very close second is reading reports like this!!

Today I took a 5 hour basic pistol class for women. Before today, I had fired a rifle once and a pistol once (not just on one occasion--one shot each). I feared and hated guns most of my life. Didn't even touch a firearm until I was almost 40 years old. Even after my perspectives on guns had changed, I didn't think I'd ever need/want to own one, or ever be capable of learning how to use one. (I'm a klutz with no mechanical inclination whatsoever.) But the Horde has motivated me to become a knowledgeable gun owner; the Left's intention to deprogram me may also have something to do with my current pursuits.
The class cost $125, which included eye & ear protection, ammo, and guns (but you could bring your own). This class qualified us to apply for a CCP. There were 12 students in the class. We began with about 2 1/2 hours of classroom instruction, starting with the 4 rules of gun safety, which were reinforced many times throughout the day. We also covered the basic parts of pistols and revolvers, how guns work, why you want to use different kinds of ammo for practice vs self-defense, and more. Next we learned about stances, grip, aligning sights, how to press the trigger, and follow through.
Then it was time to go to the range. We began with dry firing, using the Mantis app. It's a small device that attaches just below the muzzle and tracks movements as you aim and fire, and then provides a report to help correct errors. It scores each shot on a 100 point scale, with 80 and above considered a good shot. I began with a score of 33, had a high of 98 and averaged out at 76 with 10 shots. Because of the ammo shortage, the number of students, and time, we did more dry firing than they'd usually do in this class.
Next we practiced loading and unloading. Finally we practiced live fire in groups of 6, taking 3-5 shots with each turn. We were able to try several different pistols of different sizes and brands (all 9mm, except for one .380). I was not very accurate, consistently off to the left. We were sharing targets. I'm attaching a couple of pictures that I know are only my shots, in "A" and "C" respectively.

Nice shooting! Screaming in digital wraps up with overall thoughts:

Some more or less random impressions--

The first issue I had to correct was a too-loose grip. Then I needed to adjust the placement of my finger on the trigger-- I was too close to the knuckle rather than right on the finger pad.

One thing that surprised me is that our instructor taught us to press the trigger slowly. This was *very* hard to do and not at all how it looks on TV.

I had extreme difficulty applying the slide lock after clearing the chamber. I'm not sure if it's because my hands are small or not strong enough, or maybe I just need more practice.

The noise and flying shell casings were a little overwhelming to a noob. Or maybe that's just me having a bit of sensory overload. (I'm happy that no casings ended up in my bra.)

Everyone in the class was great, but I'd have preferred a smaller class and a little more time on the range.

All in all, it was an incredible experience and well worth the cost. I have a little more confidence that I'll be able to make an informed buying decision, and then to practice and develop good habits.

Congratulations screaming in digital, I love, love, love the report! One question - do you think the fact it was a ladies only class made a difference, and if so, how? I'd be curious to know. Please let us know how it goes the next time you make it to the range, OK? Thanks again!

******

Next up our pal AHL sends us a great report.

As you know, my concern about not having enough ammo chiefly revolves around the need to practice with it. I remain convinced that if things get "sporty," people aren't going to be doing multiple mag dumps with their Glocks.
The issue is whether one remains proficient when it really counts. With ammo still very scarce, I've tried to take Paul Harrell's advice and shoot .22 LR as a practice round. It is better than nothing, but I'd really rather use something that is closer to what I will normally use, particularly in terms of noise, weight and recoil.
My solution is to shoot .32 Auto (aka 7.65mm Browning). It's still out there and not hideously expensive to shoot. It's a bit 'snappy,' but that's a feature, not a bug. What is more, there are some very economical guns out there chambered in it.

This week I picked up a Crvena Zastava M70, which is an all-steel Yugoslav police pistol chambered in the afore mentioned 7.65mm (aka .32 Auto). These things are flooding the marketplace at the moment and can be got for around $250. Mine even came with a spare mag, flap holster and cleaning brush.
This is a single-action autoloader with 8-round magazines. It's pure blowback, and its guts, for those who care, are Tokarev-inspired. Disassembly is a little tricky at first, but there are videos that show you how to do it. The biggest obstacle for me was the Cosmoline. This could be tricky for people not used to dealing with it, so before buying one online, check to see if it has had it removed. I thought I did a pretty thorough job removing it from mine, but the firing pin was still sluggish which led to light primer strikes. I fixed the problem in short order, but a novice might have been stumped.
It fits the hand well, though the trigger was a bit stiff. This could also be because of gunk. As you can see, my target isn't great, but for a breaking-in session it's not too bad. Range was 10 yards at an outdoor range in weather just above freezing - what we call "brisk" in Michigan.

Basically, it fulfilled my expectations in having enough recoil to force me to use good technique and was accurate enough to reward me when I used it correctly. The sights aren't up to modern standards, but it points well. I actually did better when I tried to shoot instinctively rather than using slow-fire technique. To put it another way, instead of trying to hold it steady and shoot it from the same position, I found I did better by dropping it slightly after each shot, and then raising it again.
My point is that these M70s may be a good option for people wanting a handgun they can actually find ammo for. It is heavy for its size, but you could conceal it if desired. The biggest drawbacks are the Cosmoline if it has it, and the takedown, but both can be overcome.
I'm sure that some will dismiss .32 ACP as underpowered, and while it certainly lacks the punch of heavier calibers, the .32 in your hand beats the .45 you left at home. Shot placement always trumps caliber, so the extra practice you can get with relatively plentiful ammo could well be a life saver.
We are in a time when many of the old rules no longer apply. The days of doing test firings of rental guns, getting lavish amounts of practice in using cheap ammunition and having instructors readily available to help are gone. I'm hopeful that they will come back, but that seems an increasingly risky bet.
They are absolutely not for everyone, but some folks may find them useful. I have a weakness for 'mouse guns' anyway, but this seems like a good practice engine and I'm glad I picked it up.

Nicely done, AHL! I generally agree the philosophy on ammo, with the exception that I manage my inventory with the expectation that I'm never getting any more. So while I'm not expecting prolonged high round count combat, I'm also not expecting the UPS truck to 'round the corner with re-supply either.

What do you all think? Agree? Disagree?

******

While all the rest of us were screwing around, our pal Old Blue has been keeping an eye on important stuff:

*****Firearm Public Service Announcement*****
Smith and Wesson has just announced a recall for their M&P Shield EZ firearms because of a defective hammer that may cause the weapon to fire, possibly multiple times, even with the safety on. This includes the 9mm and .380 Shield EZ firearms. You can go to this website and enter your firearm serial number to see if your firearm is affected. If so, S&W will send you a prepaid postage label to return the firearm for inspection. If it is determined that your firearm needs repair, S&W will repair the firearm for you and return ship it at no charge.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled blog.

*****Firearm Public Service Announcement*****

Vey useful, Old Blue, thanks! Unfortunately, OB found his .380 is covered by the recall. Hopefully all goes well with the return and repair. Anyone else affected by the recall? My experience with S&W customer service has always been 100% positive. Please let us know how it goes!

******

Next up, our pal Grey Fox has an interesting question on ammo storage:

I've got an odd dilemma for which I could use some experienced advice. Background: A bit over a year ago I lost my damp little basement apartment when the septic tank failed and the landlord didn't have the funds to repair it to code, and between employment issues and the skyrocketing cost of housing I have been unable to find another home, so I've been living my parents' spare bedroom and keeping my stuff in a storage facility and their basement. My ammo supply can't be stored in the rental space, so it has been with my tools in the basement, which is reasonably dry and cool. Unfortunately space down there is pretty limited, and the ammo was put up on top of a pile of boards (future blanket chest, hopefully), which in turn was right next to the cat's litterbox. And there it stayed for 14 months . What I did not realize until very recently is that cat urine produces ammonia and that ammonia fumes in the air (not just liquid) causes brass to become brittle over time. While it is not like the cat has been peeing on the ammo or the place smells like cat urine all the time, since the ammo was stored so close to the litterbox and for over a year, I've got some serious reservations about the safety of some of what I had down there.
I figure that the stuff that was in surplus ammo cans is probably unaffected - ammo cans are designed to protect against this kind of thing, and they've been kept closed for the most part while down there. Unfortunately my entire small supply of .223 was not in ammo cans - about half of it came in plastic buckets that, as it turns out, I didn't quite seal completely when I inspected them last spring/early summer. The other half was just in the cardboard boxes they came in, and was already showing some tarnishing from humidity being held by the cardboard when I broke some out of storage last spring, which is what prompted the inspection later on when I figured out what was going on. Everything is now sealed up, though that is small consolation since the horse has already made tracks for other places.
So yes: I need to get more ammo AND I need to get more and better ammo storage boxes AND I need to figure out a place to store ammo that is neither a hot little bedroom upstairs nor a basement with a cat box. In the meantime, I'm wondering if you have ever had to deal with something like this and whether you know of any test short of shooting it that I can use to make sure that the affected brass will not crack or separate. I'm not even sure if embrittled brass will still be shiny or the process will produce tarnishing or darkening as part of the process (ammonia is used to produce the effect of aged brass, a color change, but whether the brass becomes brittle prior to the change I do not know.) I don't really want to toss 500-1100 rounds of ammo that might still be shootable, but neither do I want to risk my eyes nor do I want to be worrying about it every time I pull the trigger, which will certainly do my habitual flinch no good!

I have the same circumstances - kitty box in the basement with a lot of my ammo and reloading components. We use a clumping litter and I never notice an ammonia or urine odor, and I think it would take more than a few stray airborne cat pee molecules to cause an issue. I can tell you I have been storing my ammo and reloading stuff like this for years and have never had any problems, but it's a great question and frankly one that I'd never thought about.

What do you all think?

******

Link-O-Rama

I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA

***Mail Bag***

This week's funny comes to us courtesy of our pal JT

******

Please note the new and improved gmail account morongunthread at gmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Oneth again?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #BidenCheated at December 06, 2020 07:00 PM (HaL55)

2 All ready on the firing line!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 06, 2020 07:00 PM (DMUuz)

3 Take a look at this firearm breech
https://tinyurl.com/y4x93gyn

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:01 PM (9sWOw)

4 First Elect

Posted by: Rage Stroked but getting the banned back together at December 06, 2020 07:01 PM (uDZ7P)

5 Heh. Don't mind me, I'll just lurk since I'm not able to enjoy shooting sports because broke.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #BidenCheated at December 06, 2020 07:01 PM (HaL55)

6 Click - foo - Bang!

Flintlocks still git 'er done!

Posted by: Common Tater at December 06, 2020 07:01 PM (NWmy4)

7 Third?

Posted by: Cowboyneal at December 06, 2020 07:01 PM (U2zo0)

8 The .41 Magnum. Not too big, not too small. Just right.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 06, 2020 07:02 PM (DMUuz)

9 Wasn't bluebell's cookie thread the best thread ever?!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:03 PM (MVjcR)

10 Evening everyone.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 06, 2020 07:04 PM (Rvt88)

11 just lurk since I'm not able to enjoy shooting sports because Commiefornia.

Posted by: Rage Stroked but getting the banned back together at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (uDZ7P)

12 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (ftFVW)

13 Weasel, I just wanted to thank you for including much of my letter when you shared the Lucky McDaniel story and links with the Horde. Please keep up the great work.

Posted by: Cowboyneal at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (U2zo0)

14 Broke not as much as gets expensive to shoot at a range.
When much younger use to go within my township down by river but not so brave to do that anymore.

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:06 PM (9sWOw)

15 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.
Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs

Whatever you have or battlefield pickup.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 06, 2020 07:06 PM (Rvt88)

16 Posted by: Cowboyneal at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (U2zo0)
----
Happy to do it. Thank YOU!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:07 PM (MVjcR)

17 Yayaaay!! Gun Thread!!!
I read the content quickly. Screaming in digital, excellent report!! I hope you keep it up and keep us apprised of your journey through this worthwhile activity.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:08 PM (uyKdz)

18 I see Rudi has conveniently tested positive for lung rot19

Posted by: A dude in MI at December 06, 2020 07:08 PM (/6GbT)

19 On the ammo, I would neutralize any possible contaminants on the brass but it is probably ok for at least one firing. Primers should be okay. Some reloaders use brasso, etc. to clean brass--although it does shorten brass longevity.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:09 PM (pO7gM)

20

pew, pew

pew, pew, pew!

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:09 PM (GIeIM)

21 lots of antifa vids this weekend with them armed with long guns.

be carefull

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:10 PM (GIeIM)

22 People whose favorite cookie is oatmeal raisin should be disbarred the possession and use of firearms. You can't entrust something that dangerous to people who are that extensively impaired.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 07:10 PM (nakwk)

23
did anyone nood?

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:10 PM (GIeIM)

24
I love my Zastava rifle.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 06, 2020 07:11 PM (BvLWD)

25 Brass under serious attack by ammonia goes all blue/green with puffy efflorescence to my observation; I don't think a light tarnish (possibly not even from ammonia) would seriously affect the strength of the metal.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 TRUMP WON! at December 06, 2020 07:12 PM (/On2j)

26 The .32 ACP is a good training round but has the advantage of .22 LR for being reloadable (it is kind of a pain--.25 is something I would refuse to carry or reload). Good old .32 S&W Longs are also a good revolver training round. Very mild recoil and report and a decent self defense round if you have Buffalo Bore hardcast ammo.

Do not expect expansion for .32 ACP or .32 S&W Long in standard pressure ammo.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:12 PM (pO7gM)

27 Hiya....

And Gunga la Gunga !

Posted by: JT at December 06, 2020 07:12 PM (arJlL)

28 That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

I go every week, sometimes twice. I bought my own targets and will send pics to you. I'm improving a lot. Daughter is supposed to go with me tomorrow morning! I know once she shoots, she'll be hooked.

Posted by: Jewells45TRUMPWON! at December 06, 2020 07:13 PM (nxdel)

29 did anyone nood?
Posted by: will choose a nic later

Shooting in the nude is dangerous. Hot brass and jiggley things ...

Posted by: Adriane the Easily Impressed Critic ... at December 06, 2020 07:13 PM (LPnfS)

30 Cookies and Guns, yeah!

Posted by: Ben Had at December 06, 2020 07:14 PM (pNW4Y)

31 We'll use the oatmeal raisin cookies like clay pigeons.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 07:14 PM (nakwk)

32 Cookies and Guns, yeah!

Can't get much better than that!

Posted by: Jewells45TRUMPWON! at December 06, 2020 07:14 PM (nxdel)

33 Yay Weasel, Sunday night gun thread. 6mm ARC is just waiting on the barrel now. Fortunately the other new cartridge's I'm interested in, the 300 and 6.5 PRC are both over 2.80" so I wont be jumping in, whew it's hard enough adding one caliber.

Posted by: ck at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (iBg56)

34 Hey everyone!

Just to refine my point, Weasel, I find that I'm increasingly unwilling to use *any* of my primary calibers for practice.

But contra your assertion, the UPS man *will* bring me more .32 Auto, so that's what I'm going to use because that's what I can get.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (cfSRQ)

35 Insom. left a life altering question for you at the end of the cookie thread.

Posted by: Ben Had at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (pNW4Y)

36 Thanks Weasel! Great thread as per usual. I'd be interested in where screaming in digital took her training. Two of the ranges I'm most familiar with in my AO have Ladies Only training and range nights. Actually think that it's a pretty good idea.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:16 PM (VNmG1)

37 Shooting in the nude is dangerous. Hot brass and jiggley things ...

Posted by: Adriane the Easily Impressed Critic ... at December 06, 2020 07:13 PM (LPnfS)

---
This is yet another reason to use a revolver. Brass stays in the gun until you choose to let it out.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:16 PM (cfSRQ)

38 I don't know if others have noticed this. I've been seeing a number of articles and videos trying to make lemonade when life gives you lemons. In these cases they consist of lever action rifles, usually with pistol ammo, for self defense and using 22 magnum ammo for defensive needs. The supposition is that lever actions aren't targeted the way AR style rifles are. And as difficult as it is to find 22 magnum ammo, it is easier than trying to find the more popular center fire handgun ammo.

Any thoughts about these topics?

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:16 PM (7EjX1)

39 Just to refine my point, Weasel, I find that I'm increasingly unwilling to use *any* of my primary calibers for practice.

But contra your assertion, the UPS man *will* bring me more .32 Auto, so that's what I'm going to use because that's what I can get.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (cfSRQ)
------
OK! Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:17 PM (MVjcR)

40 35
Insom. left a life altering question for you at the end of the cookie thread.

Posted by: Ben Had at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (pNW4Y)

---
Comments like this are why I stick around.

I may have to put this in one of my novels.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:17 PM (cfSRQ)

41 >>Any thoughts about these topics?
Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:

most guns are better than almost all sticks

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (GIeIM)

42 8 ... "The .41 Magnum. Not too big, not too small. Just right."

Such truth so well explained.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (7EjX1)

43 Heh.
If Weasel gets around to making a video, I may get around to watching it.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (axyOa)

44 Wasn't bluebell's cookie thread the best thread ever?!
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:03 PM (MVjcR)

It was pretty darned awesome.

I got nothin' to add here, but like to read along.

Posted by: Gaelic Girl's Irish Democracy at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (5FCda)

45 I can chime in on removing Cosmoline. Back in my machine shop days, we'd use mineral spirits and a stiff brush with plastic bristles. Safety-Kleen cleaning stations will work as well. Still took a while.

The only grease that's stickier than that stuff is Moly-2 grease. I'd recommend that only for really long-term storage as it's nearly impossible to remove even with mineral spirits.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #BidenCheated at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (HaL55)

46 Hmmm....practicing reloading with an unloaded gun makes sense, but I think it might be a good idea to use a full magazine, because the weight is so much different.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 06, 2020 07:19 PM (xT2tT)

47 You've got to keep an eye on those two, because they're going to try to get the upper hand. Mike wants the defense to do well, and Sean, he's going to have a few... no disrespect for the Orientals, but what we call 'Jap plays.' Okay. Surprise things.

Posted by: Bill Parcells, Fat Ass NFL Coach at December 06, 2020 07:19 PM (R/m4+)

48 Quick question:

i hope.

I'd like to train with a "laserhit", but have a Ruger mark II (.22).

The laser hit cartridge is not recommended for rim fire pistols.

Does anyone know of a laser-hit-type simulator that does work well with rim fire models?

Posted by: Adriane the Easily Impressed Critic ... at December 06, 2020 07:20 PM (LPnfS)

49 whenst I was way broke

I practiced with Gammo CO2 pistols, in the back yard

they make coppies of many popular models and were cheap to feed back in 1998-9

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:20 PM (GIeIM)

50
just lurk since I'm not able to enjoy shooting sports because Commiefornia.
Posted by: Rage Stroked but getting the banned back together at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (uDZ7P)

You CAN enjoy shooting sports in CA. It's just bloody difficult, and you need to figuratively keep your head on a swivel. Sometimes, literally.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 06, 2020 07:20 PM (EGyGV)

51 35 Insom. left a life altering question for you at the end of the cookie thread.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 06, 2020 07:15 PM (pNW4Y)

I have provided an answer!

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 07:20 PM (nakwk)

52 My neighbor across the street just posted a picture of herself using a crossbow. I'm so jealous right now.

Posted by: Jewells45TRUMPWON! at December 06, 2020 07:21 PM (nxdel)

53 The supposition is that lever actions aren't
targeted the way AR style rifles are. And as difficult as it is to find
22 magnum ammo, it is easier than trying to find the more popular center
fire handgun ammo.

Any thoughts about these topics?

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:16 PM (7EjX1)

---
That's basically the same point I was making in my email to Weasel (who charmingly calls me AHL rather than using my full nic).

The Zastava M70 is super-cheap, and lots are out there. The matching .32 Auto isn't as cheap, but you can still get it in quantity.

Thus, if you don't have anything, that's now a viable option. If you do have something else, it makes a good gun to retain your shooting skills, which are perishable.

The nice thing about being a collector is that there's usually some caliber you own for sale somewhere. If it comes down to defending hearth and home with .455 Webley, so be it.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:21 PM (cfSRQ)

54 I've been to the range 4 or five times when it's been below freezing so far. Only one windy and cloudy though.

Posted by: ck at December 06, 2020 07:22 PM (iBg56)

55 Wasn't bluebell's cookie thread the best thread ever?!
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:03 PM (MVjcR)

It was pretty darned awesome.

I got nothin' to add here, but like to read along.
Posted by: Gaelic Girl's Irish Democracy at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (5FCda)

She definitely hit the bullseye!

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:22 PM (axyOa)

56 Probably not telling anyone anything they don't already know, but PewPew Tactical had an article up about the ammo shortage lasting until mid 2021. 6 million new gun owners! AYFKM? No wonder I can't find any ammo. That's a crap ton of new guns to feed.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:23 PM (VNmG1)

57 Cookie thread, then gun thread, life is good !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 TRUMP WON! at December 06, 2020 07:24 PM (/On2j)

58 lever actions and pump action long guns are -more complicated to work the actions on- when laying shooting prone

often require rolling to a side to opperate

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:24 PM (GIeIM)

59 Not a comment on my show and tell yet

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:25 PM (9sWOw)

60 Hey, you've got my motto up there! They just left off my signature.

Posted by: bluebell at December 06, 2020 07:25 PM (/669Q)

61 "lever actions and pump action long guns are -more complicated to work the actions on- when laying shooting prone
often require rolling to a side to opperate"

Chuck Conners style. Shoot and roll.

Posted by: f'd at December 06, 2020 07:27 PM (U8wDl)

62 60 Hey, you've got my motto up there! They just left off my signature.
Posted by: bluebell at December 06, 2020 07:25 PM (/669Q)
-----
Thought you will appreciate that!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:27 PM (MVjcR)

63 One thing I forgot to add on that safety notice. The affected models of the Shield EZ were manufactured between March 2020 and October 2020. Mine should have arrived there on Friday. I hope they hurry up and get it back to me. That's my preferred carry gun.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:27 PM (VNmG1)

64 Not a comment on my show and tell yet
Posted by: Skip

Skip, that is some beautiful metal work ...

Posted by: Adriane the Easily Impressed Critic ... at December 06, 2020 07:27 PM (LPnfS)

65 Lever actions are obviously not your ideal defensive weapon. But I can tell you that one shot from a 45/70 is devastating. It is also less apt to some of the deflection and through-barricade factors then smaller rounds are. By the way, if you practice prone reloading you can become pretty good at it.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:28 PM (h2OUV)

66 Hey Weasel, I received your email and agree with you 100% on how I need to think of MOA when shooting long range. I have been reflecting a lot of my shooting at the TXMOME in October, especially when you were spotting for me on my 500 yard shots. First off I was not comfortable behind the rifle, I was spending a lot of time getting a good cheek weld and eye relief behind the scope. I need to get into that position much quicker. This is why it was taking so long for me to take a shot from when you provided the information on what you were seeing Last week your mentioning putting a piece of moleskin where my cheek would lie hopefully will cut down the amount of time doing this.
I also will start learning more about MOA and because of that I am going to look to change the scope on my rifle. Currently my scope has a BDC reticle, the Vortex I am looking to have take its place has a reticle with MOA. I also know that I should have been using the turrets to adjust my aim instead of figuring what hold off I should be using. I hope for you to see a difference the next time we are shooting.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:28 PM (uyKdz)

67 59
Not a comment on my show and tell yet

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:25 PM (9sWOw)

---
You didn't sell it very well.

Don't just drop a link, describe it in a way that makes me want to follow it!

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 07:28 PM (cfSRQ)

68 Skip,
Where did you find that great action engraving? Beautiful workmanship and so appropriate for here.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:28 PM (7EjX1)

69 I can hit a 6" target from 100' with a Red Ryder bb gun. On a good day I can do it in under 10 shots.

Posted by: f'd at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (U8wDl)

70 12 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.
Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (ftFVW)

Ma Deuce

if not available,

Mk 21

Posted by: Fox2! at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (qyH+l)

71 59
Not a comment on my show and tell yet

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:25 PM (9sWOw)

Definitely an AOS gun. Ace needs one of those.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (VNmG1)

72 79 years ago right now my parents were at their little house in Pearl City. My oldest brother (by many years) was just about to start walking. Dad had duty on his sub in the morning so they didn't do much as the evening came on. Just a pleasant Saturday afternoon with some preparation for Christmas.
In just a few hours their lives and the world would change forever.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (axyOa)

73 I saw upthread, someone posted about using primary calibers for practice.

I myself slimmed down calibers and may take it down even more.

Right now, my practice and go to calibers are 45 acp and 30.06 and I try to keep things stocked.

My thinking, and it's worth everything you paid for it, is while it's nice to have a bunch of gee golly calibers, it's better to have a rifle and pistol combination one is proficient with and leave the other guns for fun.

So, make a decision as to primary calibers, practice regularly and don't get to caught up with the latest New and Improved firearm and resulting ammunition.

Yes, I get ammunition is scarce right now, but, it should be possible to maintain proficiency and keep a decent supply of ammo on hand.

Again, great thread, weasel.

And, I'm ashamed I didn't notice it is the day before Dec. 7.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (WEBkv)

74 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (ftFVW)

Ma Deuce

if not available,

Mk 21

Posted by: Fox2! at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (qyH+l)

---
Give 'em the cold steel.

Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (cfSRQ)

75 I bought 1,000 .357 and 500 .38 spl sometime around 2010 iirc, just to stash away, the way I figured it then sooner or later when things inevitably got goofy and sideways, wouldn't need to worry about it. Because even Ray Charles could see this coming.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (NWmy4)

76 Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:28 PM (uyKdz)
-------
Look forward to working with you again! If you have any questions, you know how to reach me!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (MVjcR)

77 Compared with a lever action, a bolt action is usually as fast and sometimes faster. Pump is about the same but takes practice in order not to short stroke it. Neither the lever nor pump are as fast to reload with stripper clips as a military bolt action and both have inferior extraction and loading reliability compared with the popular Mauser and its derivatives and the Lee Enfield design.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (pO7gM)

78 I actually found some ammo this weekend and got a case of 5.56. Zombies, beware.
In other news, Ware County, Ga has broken the Dominion algorithm:

Using sequestered Dominion Equipment, Ware County ran a equal number of Trump votes and Biden votes through the Tabulator and the Tabulator reported a 26% lead for Biden.
If confirmed, I demand a flaming skull. A page of flaming skulls. More flaming skulls than we have ever seen before.

Posted by: FlimFlamed at December 06, 2020 07:31 PM (ZTDnL)

79 I always have a bayonet, in case I need to put it on a rifle, and stab someone.

Posted by: G'rump928(C) blurts at December 06, 2020 07:31 PM (3aLWR)

80 Desert range today with BIL and 3 other shooters.
The water bottles succumbed to the AR 22lr as did the assorted old ipads/phones/tablets.
The AR15 and .357 did admirable work on the silhouettes.
The BIL and I used the targets that linked to here in one of the gun threads. I found I'm pushing my wrist down with the 2" .257. I'll work on it.
The kel-tek sub 2000 was admired and fired by all. The SS Rossi m92 ate a bunch of .38 and .357.
The water filled 5gal RO cannister did *not* survive being used by all.

A really good day in the desert.

Posted by: AZ deplorably isolated at December 06, 2020 07:31 PM (gtatv)

81 I have family who fought the Nazi's and Japanese. The ones who fought the Nazi's eventually made peace with it. The ones who fought the Japanese hated them until the day they left this planet.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:32 PM (h2OUV)

82 No range time. It's been a few weeks.

There's been three shootings in the last week in my neighborhood. After the sun sets, it's not safe to be out walking around. So, I don't. No reason to go looking for trouble.

I'm not carrying either. There's not enough ammo to pacify an angry mob.

So, I have walked around my dwelling and have staked out my defensive positions. No one will attack me in my home and leave unscathed.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 07:32 PM (U2p+3)

83 I have been selling off my collection of handguns over the last few weeks. Mostly GunChoker, but a few private sells and a couple of pawn shops for the lesser dollar items. Business has been good.

I have about 40 more to liquidate with all the proceeds going to the HB Heavy Weapons Platoon to buy a few NFA items.

Gotta get ready for the burning times.

So far the CZ's, Nambus and Walthers have been flying off the shelf.

Gonna start selling some of my raffles off after the new year, but I have to shoot them first for one last go around.

Time to let others enjoy what I have over these many years, passing the torch so to speak.

(Wipes a reluctant teardrop away)

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 06, 2020 07:32 PM (R/m4+)

84 In other news, I just mounted my brandy new SigSauer Romeo 5 red dot on my also brandy new AR. The targets I take to the range have a red bullseye and a friend says that I may not be able to see the red dot when I'm on target. I really want to test that out.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:32 PM (VNmG1)

85 Anybody on here that would be able to identify the country of origin of an older rifle? I think it's early 19th century but could be older or newer - patterns on it make me think Asian, but I can't parse between Japan, Korea, China, or even India.

Posted by: Broseidon at December 06, 2020 07:33 PM (icI8A)

86 Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (axyOa)
-----
No shit. Wow.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:33 PM (MVjcR)

87 BTW, I have lever actions and like them just fine. They would not be my choice if a military bolt action was available and military design semi-autos are better yet for serious purposes.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:34 PM (pO7gM)

88 Found a marlin model 39 that I guess was my great grandfather's. Is this something I should keep? From what I can find out: made in 1921, star on tang, shoots 22 short, long and long rifle

Posted by: NCKate at December 06, 2020 07:34 PM (rEqap)

89 Your Link-O-Rama inspired me Weasel. I just went to AmmoSeek. Found and ordered 1K rounds of 9mm, which I'll probably lose in my upcoming canoe accident.

Posted by: Texas .45 at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (jb7B3)

90 Found that on Daily Time Waster, thought it might be Ace's

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (9sWOw)

91 A toast to my uncle who enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1940 and was sent to Hawaii thinking he had it made until Dec.7th. He went on the first wave in the Battle of Saipan and brought home a leg full of Japanese shrapnel that made him limp the rest of his life. Great guy. Here's to you unc!

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (+ya+t)

92 No range report. In the current climate (political) I do not see me bringing my Sig from NYC to the range I belong to in NJ. In the other climate (weather wise) I feel like I am becoming what us scuba divers who dove up in the Northeast Atlantic called those who dove in more tropical climes, a warm water weenie. I am becoming a warm weather weenie when it comes to hitting the out door range. LOL

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (uyKdz)

93 88 Found a marlin model 39 that I guess was my great grandfather's. Is this something I should keep? From what I can find out: made in 1921, star on tang, shoots 22 short, long and long rifle
Posted by: NCKate at December 06, 2020 07:34 PM (rEqap)
------
Heck yes!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (MVjcR)

94 88, NC Kate, keep it as the value on these keeps going up. Not being made currently also keeps the price up.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (pO7gM)

95 Posted by: Texas .45 at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (jb7B3)
--------
Good!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:37 PM (MVjcR)

96 >>If confirmed, I demand a flaming skull. A page of flaming skulls. More flaming skulls than we have ever seen before.
Posted by: FlimFlamed at December

kinda need a link for this there

Posted by: will choose a nic later at December 06, 2020 07:37 PM (GIeIM)

97 "BTW, I have lever actions and like them just fine. They would not be my choice if a military bolt action was available and military design semi-autos are better yet for serious purposes.
Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:34 PM (pO7gM)"

I believe we start to lurch into other factors such as bagel length and, as you mentioned, reloading. Ideally in a CQB situation I would be picking up a semi-auto as it hits on all the right factors. But given a choice between bolt action and lever, I'll be picking up my 1895 before my 1903 or other bolts. Also, typically the bolt will be a .30 derivative round, while the Marlin is a 45/70 and will end the fight faster IMHO

Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:38 PM (h2OUV)

98 *barell

Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:38 PM (h2OUV)

99 Dec. 7th is bittersweet as my grandfather never made it home from the Pacific Theater to his wife and children.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (pO7gM)

100 I keep trying that penny drill, but just can't get it to work.
https://tinyurl.com/yxfy6tdo

Posted by: Steyr M9-A1 at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (vOGqy)

101 Thanks for the Gun Thread Weasel!!

Posted by: DBCooper at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (y1Mvi)

102 Anybody on here that would be able to identify the country of origin of an older rifle? I think it's early 19th century but could be older or newer - patterns on it make me think Asian, but I can't parse between Japan, Korea, China, or even India.
Posted by: Broseidon at December 06, 2020 07:33 PM (icI8A)

Don't forget Thailand, which bought many a raffle back in the day as Siam if I remember right.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (R/m4+)

103 Granny, (80) bags an 11 point buck from her kitchen window.
https://tinyurl.com/y5uk666f

Posted by: attila the irritable at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (w7KSn)

104 Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (axyOa)
-----
No shit. Wow.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:33 PM

***

I will post in the morning about the day they had. Confusing, scary, anger, determination and even some humor. But since this is a shooting thread, I'll add that they got the Ma Deuce working on his sub, the Cachelot. They were credited with half a kill on a Jap plane.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (axyOa)

105 I continue to keep my eyes open for ammo and components. This afternoon I got an order of 1,000 rounds of 22 magnum ammo from Natchez Supply. It wasn't especially cheap but it wasn't gouging either. I had a chance at some shotgun primers and picked them up. I don't shoot shotguns often but that could change. I do want to try loading shot shells with black powder, especially if I can get some paper hulls. They are supposed to be much better and longer lasting than plastic. Like everything else, the paper hulls are in short supply.

Probably not needed but I was a little low on Hoppe's so I got a large bottle. Never know when even cleaning supplies will be tough to find. But Hoppe's is one of Mrs. JTB's favorite scents. (I knew I married well.)

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (7EjX1)

106
101 Thanks for the Gun Thread Weasel!!
Posted by: DBCooper at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (y1Mvi)
-----
Happy to do it, pal!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (MVjcR)

107 100 Steyr M9-A1,
What handgun are you trying this on?

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (pO7gM)

108 Almost bought a Shield EZ earlier this year. Glad I went with something else!

Posted by: President-elect Emmie at December 06, 2020 07:41 PM (ofYez)

109 It makes me sad that so many yutes have no concept of American history. I think if you were to ask any 20 year old what does December 7 signify, they wouldn't have a freaking clue.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:41 PM (VNmG1)

110 I will post in the morning about the day they had. Confusing, scary, anger, determination and even some humor. But since this is a shooting thread, I'll add that they got the Ma Deuce working on his sub, the Cachelot. They were credited with half a kill on a Jap plane.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (axyOa)
--------
I'd love to see that. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:42 PM (MVjcR)

111 DBCooper!

How's it going?

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 07:42 PM (U2p+3)

112 Steyr M9-A1,
What handgun are you trying this on?
Posted by: whig
---------

I'm guessing, a Steyr M9-A1

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 06, 2020 07:42 PM (1vynn)

113 I will post in the morning about the day they had. Confusing, scary, anger, determination and even some humor. But since this is a shooting thread, I'll add that they got the Ma Deuce working on his sub, the Cachelot. They were credited with half a kill on a Jap plane.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:40 PM (axyOa)

Looking forward to reading that. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a Ma Deuce?

Posted by: Gaelic Girl's Irish Democracy at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (5FCda)

114 Nurse Ratched, do be careful.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (uyKdz)

115 M2 machine gun

Posted by: attila the irritable at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (w7KSn)

116 A toast to my uncle who enlisted in the Marine Corps
in 1940 and was sent to Hawaii thinking he had it made until Dec.7th.
He went on the first wave in the Battle of Saipan and brought home a leg
full of Japanese shrapnel that made him limp the rest of his life.
Great guy. Here's to you unc!

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:36 PM (+ya+t)

Here's to your uncle. I had 2 uncles who fought in the Pacific. One in the Navy and the other in the Marines.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (dqms6)

117 Emmie, I really like my Shield EZ. It was just an issue where the hammer wouldn't engage the sere, and they had only had that happen with two that they know of. But I get it surprised the heck out of whoever was holding that gun when it went full auto on them.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:44 PM (VNmG1)

118 74 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (ftFVW)

Ma Deuce

if not available,

Mk 21

Posted by: Fox2! at December 06, 2020 07:29 PM (qyH+l)

---
Give 'em the cold steel.
Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet at December 06, 2020 07:30 PM (cfSRQ)

They don't like it up 'em, sir, they do not like it up 'em!

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 07:44 PM (nakwk)

119 M2 machine gun
Posted by: attila the irritable at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (w7KSn)

Ah, thanks!

Posted by: Gaelic Girl's Irish Democracy at December 06, 2020 07:44 PM (5FCda)

120 Back in the winter of '65-'66 I lucked onto the Eighth Army pistol team and was shooting multiple bullseye courses of fire barehanded every morning and afternoon with .22s and .45s on an outdoor range in Seoul. We had a fire barrel going at one end of the firing line so we could unstick our shooting hands from our shooting irons every so often. It beat patrolling north of the Imjin in any case, but the real reward was having the great SFC Bill Blankenship for our coach. Under his teaching, the cold became just one more challenge to mental discipline. And it was good training for the following year in Vietnam.

Posted by: Bill Befort at December 06, 2020 07:45 PM (WHscG)

121 Looking forward to reading that. Please pardon my ignorance, but what is a Ma Deuce?
Posted by: Gaelic Girl's Irish Democracy at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (5FCda)

Ahh. I see it's already answered. The M 2. Heavy machine gun. .50 caliber.

If I don't sleep in, I'll try to put the folks' recollections in the art thread.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:45 PM (axyOa)

122 Scuba dude.
No worries. I blend in. And I avoid situations that smell iffy. But I do carry pepper spray everywhere I go. And I try not to walk alone. I worry more about the street people than antifa right now.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 07:47 PM (U2p+3)

123 happy gun day.

Did not get to the range this week, dog had an accident and ended up spending time with him instead.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 07:47 PM (d1uFV)

124 Dec. 7th is bittersweet as my grandfather never made it home from the Pacific Theater to his wife and children.
Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (pO7gM)

I say a prayer every Dec 7th. My grandmother was an Army brat on Ft. Kamaiahmaiah (sp?) that day. She and her friends helped by running supplies.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 06, 2020 07:47 PM (mZ8JI)

125 88 ... "Found a marlin model 39 that I guess was my great grandfather's. Is this something I should keep? From what I can find out: made in 1921, star on tang, shoots 22 short, long and long rifle"

YES! Keep it and shoot it.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 07:47 PM (7EjX1)

126 By the way, Weasel, how is your ankle?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:48 PM (WEBkv)

127 Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:45 PM (axyOa)
-------
If you want, send it to me and I can put it into the GT next week in case people miss it tomorrow.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:48 PM (MVjcR)

128 Speaking of .50 cal, I think Classic Firearms has a drawing going on for a Barrett BMG valued at about $12,000. I'm not sure, but I think BMG stands for Big Motherfreaking Gun. It's a monster. Plus expensive to feed.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (VNmG1)

129 Howdy, Horde!@ the missus is on the line, so I'll say Hi! and come back in a bit

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (rJ1YP)

130
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (dqms6)
And one back atcha to your uncles! Thinking about those guys makes politics of today hard to take without getting mad.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (+ya+t)

131 I've thought about "gun oil" and cleaning supplies too. I like Hoppes 9 and the rest of it.

But, comes down to it - kerosene, WD40, ATF, Acetone, Marvel's, PB Blaster, Carburetor cleaner, Mobil 1, even gasoline or diesel, lots of options in the cleaning/lubing realm.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (NWmy4)

132 Here's to your uncle. I had 2 uncles who fought in the Pacific. One in the Navy and the other in the Marines.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 06, 2020 07:43 PM (dqms6)

Indeed. To the uncles.
My Father-in-law was in the Army's 81st Division and fought in the Pacific. He hated anything Japanese.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (axyOa)

133 126 By the way, Weasel, how is your ankle?
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:48 PM (WEBkv)
--------
Good, thanks! I have declared myself cured and am going to the office tomorrow.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:50 PM (MVjcR)

134 Did not get to the range this week, dog had an accident and ended up spending time with him instead.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 07:47 PM (d1uFV)

Sorry about your doggeh. Any improvement?

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 07:50 PM (nakwk)

135 >> December 7th, 1941 - A Date Which Will Live in Infamy!

Heh, Hold My Beer!
--November 3rd, 2020

Posted by: Thomas Bender at December 06, 2020 07:50 PM (ztzef)

136 If you want, send it to me and I can put it into the GT next week in case people miss it tomorrow.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020

Will do!

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:51 PM (axyOa)

137 "Dec. 7th is bittersweet as my grandfather never made it home from the Pacific Theater to his wife and children.
Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (pO7gM) "

I have family planted in Europe, on the Wall and a bunch of other places.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:51 PM (h2OUV)

138 I'm not carrying either. There's not enough ammo to pacify an angry mob.

So, I have walked around my dwelling and have staked out my defensive positions. No one will attack me in my home and leave unscathed.
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 07:32 PM (U2p+3)
------------

Smart. Knowing your AO helps tremendously with fight or flight.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:52 PM (WEBkv)

139 Under a Harris administration, will the gun thread be one of the first threads to go or will it be the last thread standing? Will the pet thread become part of the food thread?

Posted by: Central Scrutinizer at December 06, 2020 07:52 PM (+U5Yr)

140 Got the other half to the gun store to *look* at pistoles on Black Friday, finally. Crowds weren't too bad. I think she has a better idea of what she's like.

One off thing I hadn't encountered before, and it was at TWO different gun stores....

Really, REALLY stiff slide locks.

These nuggets took two hands to release sometimes. The gun store employees (at least some of whom I trust implicitly) have us identical shpeels about that being how new guns are.

The problem is MY gun didn't come that way. And it seems like something you wouldn't want to "wear in". (If it "wears in" it also wears OUT, in my experience.)

What thinks the Horde? What's your actual experience?

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 07:52 PM (t/Qrm)

141 And Dec 2020, a Month that will also, live in infamy, unless the Courts get their shit together.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2020 07:52 PM (d9rwJ)

142 One of those days I'm sure you remember exactly where you were when you "heard" the news. Curious if there is anyone on the net who can say where they were when the attack happened?

Posted by: JazzyJ at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (npuhE)

143 Hi, all, sorry I'm late! Wow, I'm famous now, LOL.

Weasel asked whether having a ladies-only class made a difference. I think it was more important to my shooting buddy to be in a ladies class than it was to me, even though she has more prior experience. Our instructor was a guy. He kept it basic but didn't talk down to us. For the range portion, since there were so many people in the class, he brought in another (female) instructor to teach us the Mantis app, and she worked with me and my friend quite a bit. The age range of the students was very interesting to me--probably from about 20 to I'd guess well over 60. Even though it was a basic class, most people had some experience. I was definitely the least experienced! But some of them said they knew they'd probably picked up or been taught some bad habits, and others hadn't been shooting in about 50 years!

Old Blue asked where I took my training: Wyoming Gun Company in Casper. They have indoor ranges, rentals, training, sales. I had a great experience there! I don't live in Casper, but I think it is the closest range to me that offers rentals and training.

Now I just have to figure out what to buy and then get my ass out to practice!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (k42hV)

144 I had an uncle on the Helena.

He survived Pearl Harbor and the ship sinking out from under him.

Funny thing, I never once heard him talk about his experiences, even when he was drunk. Which was usually.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (WEBkv)

145 Great thread, Weasel!

The nickel-dime drill is such a good idea.

I'm going to send you an email.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (TdMsT)

146 One advantage of Classic lever rifle loads such as the .45-70 or .405 Winchester (put to such effective use by T.Roosevelt), is that they're instantly backwards compatible to serve as a Blackpowder cartridge.

Pray times don't get that tough. But just in case they do, those would be good rifles to own.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

p.s. damn sorry I missed the Cookie Thread! WOW! *drools*

Posted by: Jim at December 06, 2020 07:54 PM (QzJWU)

147 145 Great thread, Weasel!

The nickel-dime drill is such a good idea.

I'm going to send you an email.
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (TdMsT)
-----
Thanks Ladyl - I'll be on the lookout!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:54 PM (MVjcR)

148 Good, thanks! I have declared myself cured and am going to the office tomorrow.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:50 PM (MVjcR)
--------------

Good deal, glad to hear it.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 07:54 PM (WEBkv)

149 Might I humbly suggest you fellow 'Rons stave off your urge to go to the range for a few months.

Ammo is a very hard thing to acquire right now. It'll be harder if Joe and the Ho steal the Presidency.

Conduct dry fire exercises, dime/washer drills, maintain your weapons, and keep situational awareness. Save your bullets for a rainy day.

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 07:55 PM (yx0HS)

150 "Ma Deuce" is slang for "M2" the government designation for the .50 caliber machine gun. It's this huge air cooled belt fed monstrosity that is a lot of fun to shoot. Can be shot on the ground, on a tripod, or mounted on a revolving ring and on a truck, or mounted in the wings of aircraft. Don't want to be on the wrong end of that thing. Shoots through brick walls and generally causes bad guys to have a bad day.

I remember seeing one made by the Frigidaire corporation iirc.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 06, 2020 07:55 PM (NWmy4)

151 You haven't lived until you've been pinned down for an hour, only to find out the derp was shooting at you with an m1888/90 that should be hanging in a museum.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 07:55 PM (DnGVP)

152 And one back atcha to your uncles! Thinking about those guys makes politics of today hard to take without getting mad.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (+ya+t)

Both of my uncles were really good guys. The one who was in the Marines was a big Swede. He always said he was a descendant of the Vikings. (not the football team) He was a truck driver in civilian life and he loved the outdoors. I wonder how we went from a nation of men like that to the soyboy shitheads of today.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 06, 2020 07:55 PM (dqms6)

153 137 "Dec. 7th is bittersweet as my grandfather never made it home from the Pacific Theater to his wife and children.
Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 07:39 PM (pO7gM) "

I have family planted in Europe, on the Wall and a bunch of other places.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 06, 2020 07:51 PM (h2OUV)

Its odd, as I have combat Vet direct ancestors all the way back to the French and Indian War, including Valley Forge, and one who fought for the South.

WW1, WW2 and Korea, missed Viet Nam, me Cold War and Desert Storm, Son War on Terror.

Somehow, not a single one has died in combat. They manage to serve, and make it home.

Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2020 07:56 PM (d9rwJ)

154 Thanks screaming in digital. Have a niece that lived in Casper. She put me and Mrs Old Blue up for the eclipse a couple of years ago. Lives in Buffalo now.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 07:56 PM (VNmG1)

155 I did set up an annealing station on my back deck. It's really convenient, now the first thing I do when I get home from the range, is sit out on the deck for a few minutes, with the doggies and do my brass.

Posted by: ck at December 06, 2020 07:57 PM (iBg56)

156 Wonder if many family's did what my FiL' s did, 3 brothers all went to different beaches, my FiL we n't Army, his 2 brothers went Army Air Corps and other Navy. All made it back with God's grace as my FiL was a D-day vet and his brother in Air Force did combat over Germany in a B-17.

Posted by: Skip at December 06, 2020 07:57 PM (9sWOw)

157 Funny thing, I never once heard him talk about his experiences, even when he was drunk. Which was usually.

Mine too. I got him to talk about Saipan a few times and I regretted coaxing him to relive it.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:57 PM (+ya+t)

158 I did get 500 rounds of range ammo, in case the range turns off the mask nazi setting.

Whatever happens, happens now.

Deus Vult.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (d1uFV)

159 Looking at this iTarget system Dan Bongino hawks on his show with the understanding that it's a sales pitch and the best one out there probably isn't this one.

https://www.itargetpro.com/

For $100 it might be worth it with the price of ammo.

Also, ordered my Christmas present, a Springfield Saint AR. Should arrive in @ a week

Posted by: jsg at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (gtJ22)

160 151 You haven't lived until you've been pinned down for an hour, only to find out the derp was shooting at you with an m1888/90 that should be hanging in a museum.
Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 07:55 PM (DnGVP)

my fav was a derka derka using an old Tower Enfield to shoot a musket ball at the gate/hesco in Afghanistan.
'Twas a short fight.

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (yx0HS)

161 43 Heh.
If Weasel gets around to making a video, I may get around to watching it.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:18 PM (axyOa)

If old age doesn't get you first.

Posted by: Braenyard at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (CZm2G)

162 Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 07:53 PM (k42hV)
-----
Please send us updates along the way!!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 07:59 PM (MVjcR)

163 In December of 86, I baked Christmas cookies on the barrel of my M-16 after a rapid fire exercise. Dammit, we liked it that way!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 07:59 PM (kTF2Z)

164 I wouldn't trade my military surplus bolt action rifles for anything. But when it comes to pistol cartridges I've developed a real fondness for lever actions. In the past week I bought a Henry in 22 magnum and a Rossi in 44 magnum which will probably see more 44 specials than magnums. There is just something appealing about them, especially paired up with a revolver in the same caliber. Keeping distances at 200 feet or less should still provide plenty of challenge and fun. And in my research, lever actions do very well with cast bullet reloads and even round ball gallery loads.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (7EjX1)

165 Oh, it's the gub thread!

I got a new pistol this week, a Sig Sauer P365. While I dread the forthcoming tragic canoe accident in which it will be lost, I'm going to have fun with it now. I've not yet taken it to the range, but I gave it a thorough cleaning this morning and I've begun running various dry fire drills with it. These have been sufficient to make my hands have residual soreness as I get used to the layout of the thing. I might be overdoing it a little. The safety is a bit stiff and has required a drop of CLP and some tedious back-and-forth to loosen it up. Yes, I got the manual safety version: I grew up with manual safeties, so the modern "just don't touch the trigger" mentality makes me a bit nervous.

Next Saturday will be its inaugural range visit. I can hardly wait.

Now I just need to figure out how to sell off all the .45 FMJ I have stockpiled.

Posted by: Mostly Peaceful Grognard at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (b3x5S)

166
If old age doesn't get you first.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (CZm2G)
------
Weasel been crippled!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (MVjcR)

167 Thanks as always, Weasel, & g'night everyone !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 TRUMP WON! at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (/On2j)

168 163 In December of 86, I baked Christmas cookies on the barrel of my M-16 after a rapid fire exercise. Dammit, we liked it that way!
Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 07:59 PM (kTF2Z)

lol Duke you must have had an old A1 version- full auto baby!
My SAW and 240 gunners back in the day probably could have crisped bacon with their very itchy trigger fingers

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:01 PM (yx0HS)

169 Now I just need to figure out how to sell off all the .45 FMJ I have stockpiled.
Posted by: Mostly Peaceful Grognard at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (b3x5S)
--------------

Just do the usual, dark alley, trench coat, fedora, "Hey buddy, want to buy a case of ammo?"

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:01 PM (WEBkv)

170
Posted by: Mostly Peaceful Grognard at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (b3x5S)
-----
Congratulations!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:01 PM (MVjcR)

171 "my fav was a derka derka using an old Tower Enfield to shoot a musket ball at the gate/hesco in Afghanistan.
'Twas a short fight.
Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (yx0HS)"

I swear those fuckers we're pulling shit off museum walls. We once found a Martini-Henry rifle some asshole was popping off shots with. I laughed so hard I almost shit myself. We had to look it up. Nobody even knew wtf it was. How the hell does someone even ammo up that thing. Good God.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:01 PM (DnGVP)

172 Awesom.

Posted by: Boo Radley at December 06, 2020 08:02 PM (VlZwl)

173 Old Blue, if you ever find yourself passing through southeastern Wyoming, give me a holler. Email in my nic. That goes for any 'rons and ettes!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 08:02 PM (k42hV)

174
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 TRUMP WON! at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (/On2j)
-------
My pleasure - 'night, sock rat!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:02 PM (MVjcR)

175 Just trying to tie weasel and bluebell's threads together. I'm a giver.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:03 PM (kTF2Z)

176 SID, please don't tell me you live in Pine Bluffs.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 08:04 PM (VNmG1)

177 ust trying to tie weasel and bluebell's threads together. I'm a giver.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:03 PM (kTF2Z)

-------------

Easy peasy.

Let's discuss whether or not cold steel is a necessary addition to a battle rifle.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:04 PM (WEBkv)

178 153 Romeo13,

Many of my father's and mother's side fought in most wars except the Spanish American war. One died in the Revolution stopping British marauders in NC and another died in the Civil War. One even served in the Revolutionary era Navy from Maryland.

Most of them lived through the experience, although one's health was broken after staying in a Northern prison camp and did not live long after that.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:05 PM (pO7gM)

179
I swear those fuckers we're pulling shit off museum walls. We once found a Martini-Henry rifle some asshole was popping off shots with. I laughed so hard I almost shit myself. We had to look it up. Nobody even knew wtf it was. How the hell does someone even ammo up that thing. Good God.
Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:01 PM (DnGVP

so yeah i got some info on that. It seems that Haji is quite good at copying things- like Odishi is in Korea. So when the Brits went in during the 1860s to colonize and "civilize the heathens" they got their asses handed to them. Lost a bunch of Tower Enfield musket rifles. A lot of them. Over the years, the rifles flowed between the Ghan and India because, the Brits were there. Haji became exceptional at copying the designs and taking pieces of used rifles and rigging them.
So when I left I came home with two Tower Enfield rifles- a Navy version and a two banded musket. And a long bayonet. All of them had the stampings on them, so at least the flintlock was made in the UK. So kinda cool. My joes also gave me an old Russian k-pot- had part of it staved in. If the kid was wearing that, well, one more dead Russkie in the Ghan.
Anyway, what a weird fucking place that was. I don't miss it.

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:05 PM (yx0HS)

180 Thanks for another great thread, weasel.

I do have a question.

My pistols are loaded. But not chambered. In my mind it's the extra safety, the little voice in my head that says, "I'm not fucking around anymore and I'm ready to kill someone."

Will the hesitation be my downfall?

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

181 Range side note: Broke out the .243 and put some rounds downrange, just because. I should have known better. 1 in 10 twist and 95 grain bullets just don't work well together.

But, on the other hand, I got rid of some ammo that needs to be gone from my inventory.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (WEBkv)

182 No range report this week, sir. Next week, different story. Buddy of mine (Marine, not on active duty), has a kid coming home for Christmas leave from a LST in the Eastern Med.

Kidlet is a Lance Corporal marksmanship instructor and has asked his Dad for help with finding a range to zero his present to himself, a brand new AR-15.
We will be going to my club range here in the Tenessee Vallety to do this. I'm provid___ access to the range and intend to take photos and provide snarky Army commentary to the Marines.

Hope to send it to you, but know it will be too late for next week's thread.

Bif out.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (VcFUs)

183 Somehow, not a single one has died in combat. They manage to serve, and make it home.
Posted by: Romeo13 at December 06, 2020 07:56 PM (d9rwJ)

Same thing here.
Ancestors go back to the Revolution and every generation has served since. Most made it back. The last to not was a great uncle who was KIA in France in WW1, although I had a cousin come close...spendIng a number of years in the Hanoi Hilton.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 08:07 PM (axyOa)

184 If old age doesn't get you first.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (CZm2G)
------
Weasel been crippled!
Posted by: Weasel
----

Rough group tonight!

Glad you're doing better Weasel and thanks for the GT as usual!

Posted by: AZ deplorably isolated at December 06, 2020 08:07 PM (gtatv)

185 Hesco Gypsy,

Was it a Mannlicher design or a Commission Rifle of 1888? Seeing quite a few war trophies that were conveniently backdated on gunbroker. It is kind of messing up the collector market as some of the stamped numbers on old rifles like the Lebel do not make sense given the other proof marks which are known.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:08 PM (pO7gM)

186 My mother's dad did heavy water work during the war so his German civilian sailor cousin, who became stranded here, spent the war in a Kansas POW camp.

Posted by: Jamaica NYC at December 06, 2020 08:08 PM (4vNgL)

187 They probably got the ammo at the same museum as the rifle.

One other thing I laid in a supply of was 22 LR, and 22 short, and various HV and SV of same. Some shotshells, sort of like shotgun loads, except in .22 cal. Also Aguila Colibri, which have no powder, just the priimer. Also 6mm Flobert, which is also a "gallery round", these low powered rounds would be useful for vermin and varmints and packs of feral dogs. I surmised that if things went real bad, dogs would be an urban and country side issue.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 06, 2020 08:08 PM (NWmy4)

188 My pistols are loaded. But not chambered. In my mind it's the extra safety, the little voice in my head that says, "I'm not fucking around anymore and I'm ready to kill someone."

Will the hesitation be my downfall?
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)
-------------

I carried without a round chambered early on. As I got more proficient and comfortable, I started carrying with a round chambered.

My .02.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:08 PM (WEBkv)

189 157
Funny thing, I never once heard him talk about his experiences, even when he was drunk. Which was usually.

Mine too. I got him to talk about Saipan a few times and I regretted coaxing him to relive it.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 07:57 PM (+ya+t)

---
My great-grandfather was in the Meuse-Argonne.

My grandmother said that none of the kids knew anything about it, since he never talked about it around them. Once or twice she remembers the kids being told to go away when the topic came up and he talked with other grown ups.

He was in a replacement company that took 50 percent casualties in a matter of days. People forget that almost all our war dead in WW I occurred in six weeks.

Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet at December 06, 2020 08:09 PM (cfSRQ)

190 and am going to the office tomorrow.
Posted by: Weasel
---------

Okay, I think I see your problem...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 06, 2020 08:09 PM (ELgVT)

191 "Anyway, what a weird fucking place that was. I don't miss it.
Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:05 PM (yx0HS)"

Oh fuck yeah sir. I hate that godforsaken place. What a shithole. Interesting story how all that weaponry got there. But it doesn't surprise me. That place has been the graveyard of empires. There's ordnance from just about every major nation all over the place.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:09 PM (DnGVP)

192 176 SID, please don't tell me you live in Pine Bluffs.
Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 08:04 PM (VNmG1)
---
Nope, I'm in Laramie... college town, so lots of leftist nonsense, but honestly not the worst college town I've lived in!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 08:09 PM (k42hV)

193
My pistols are loaded. But not chambered. In my mind it's the extra safety, the little voice in my head that says, "I'm not fucking around anymore and I'm ready to kill someone."

Will the hesitation be my downfall?
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

This interests me as well.

Ruger LCP-II, and 1911. Keep the LCP-II chambered, but the 1911 empty.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:10 PM (VcFUs)

194
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)
-------
As always, my pleasure!

Hoo Boy - that question is likely to get a few responses! My answer? Do what you're comfortable with and will carry. If that means no round in the chamber, then you must remember that's the case and incorporate chambering a round into your routine.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:10 PM (MVjcR)

195 Will the hesitation be my downfall?
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

---------

That's a good question and one I've thought about. I've decided to have one in the pipe during the day, but empty while I'm sleeping.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:11 PM (kTF2Z)

196 If old age doesn't get you first.
Posted by: Braenyard at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (CZm2G)
------
Weasel been crippled!
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (MVjcR)

***

Like hitting the black at 500 meters, one must be patient.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 08:11 PM (axyOa)

197 Great thread as always! Gonna head out and in honor of tomorrow, I'm putting in my copy of "Tora, Tora, Tora". See y'all on the flip side.

Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (VNmG1)

198 My pistols are loaded. But not chambered. In my
mind it's the extra safety, the little voice in my head that says, "I'm
not fucking around anymore and I'm ready to kill someone."

Will the hesitation be my downfall?

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

---
Probably not.

Do you practice chambering before you fire?

Is it a habit?

If it isn't, make it one. Then you'll be fine.

Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (cfSRQ)

199 All of my father's side of the family who served in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam are planted in Barrancas Nat. Cemetery. It hurts that I can't visit because the base commander is a dick and has locked off any civilian presence since the muslim incident.

As far as ammo storage, it's cheap insurance to buy ammo cans and put everything in them. Available at Academy Sports or online.

I may be a heretic but I stopped regularly buying ammo and supplies back around 2012, except for the occasional brick of .22LR, CCI WMR or Winchester rep twisting my arm with a deal I couldn't say no to. Then again, I have 40+ ammo cans and several spam cans safely stashed waiting to two step with the commies.

Posted by: Gmac - WTF did you think was going to happen? at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (D1LgD)

200 Any gun you carry on you for defense, has to be ready to rock. You may only be able to draw with one hand. You might only a second to draw and fire. So, for me, any self defense gun has to be ready immediately, without chambering a round.

A gun used for home defense is probably ok to keep loaded but no round in the chamber. That's how I keep my shottys. But other than shotguns, everything is hot and ready at all times.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (d1uFV)

201 "Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:08 PM (pO7gM)"

Pretty sure it was a Mannlicher design brother. It as Jack mentioned, these fuckers mixed and matched and copied whatever they could to get the damn things working. A lot of them were franken guns.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (DnGVP)

202 Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (VcFUs)
----
No worries - send it when you can!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:13 PM (MVjcR)

203 180 Thanks for another great thread, weasel.

I do have a question.

My pistols are loaded. But not chambered. In my mind it's the extra safety, the little voice in my head that says, "I'm not fucking around anymore and I'm ready to kill someone."

Will the hesitation be my downfall?
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

Nurse- yes. Recall the Tacoma Mall shooter back in 2005 or so. There was a guy who ran a knife/sword store in the mall who carried a little .38. Didn't maintain it and when he went to pull it, it malfunctioned. Shooter shot him and put him in a a wheelchair for life.
You carry, put one in the chamber. When the moment comes, you'll be so keyed up and adrenaline pumping you won't want to try to chamber or function check the weapon. You'll point and shoot.
Recommend a good Sig 229 or Sig variant. Or a Glock if you want a trigger pull that is consistent.
I've been carrying in a LEO role for 16 years- always have one in the chamber- as any LEO would. My .02 as well.

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:13 PM (yx0HS)

204 "Will the hesitation be my downfall?
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3) "

Depends on the situation and how fast you can chamber a round. It's a bitch to wake up with someone in your bedroom and then you've got to chamber.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:14 PM (DnGVP)

205
Posted by: Old Blue - Deplorable Trump Chump at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (VNmG1)
-------
Thanks OB!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:14 PM (MVjcR)

206 been busy gun smithing and cat searching...

China Freight sells plastic ammo boxes for not much, 30 cal size, and, awhile back i sent in a link for re-furbed GI 50 cal cans...

Old Western Scrounger, maybe? i think they were in the $10 area each.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:14 PM (EQMiV)

207
Okay, I think I see your problem...
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 06, 2020 08:09 PM (ELgVT)
------
Funny, now that I could retire if I wanted, I really like my job and the people I work with.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:15 PM (MVjcR)

208 I spent a fair bit of time cleaning various rifles Saturday - though I appreciate the functional form of the ones from Russia, Romania and Yugoslavia, a well made American rifle is a work of art, cleaning those is not a chore, more like prayer.

Posted by: Heart of Darkness at December 06, 2020 08:15 PM (4NtsG)

209 188 Nurse Ratched, keep a round in the chamber if you are carrying it. Home duty, if you harden your periphery entry points such as door or windows, you should have enough time to jack the slide.

If nervous, either get a firearm with a manual safety and practice (S&W M&P and Shield series have these as an option) or get a heavy double action trigger pull (S&W Third Generation of DAK (Double Action Kellerman) Sig models). There is also a traditional DA/SA (these take practice to shoot) that have a heavy trigger pull for the first shot and relatively light trigger pulls for subsequent shots. Last, but not least, the Springfield XD series has a grip safety that must be depressed to fire (most models have this).

Yeah, I know the Israelis did the empty chamber thing as well as Uncle Sam with the old 1911 but that was more to cover commander's butts with inadequately trained troops that had AD's than for safety.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:16 PM (pO7gM)

210 in other news, every AR upper we have with a BCG now as a CA compliant muzzle device.

naow, to build MOAR lowers.

this part of the #Resistance will be well armed.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:16 PM (EQMiV)

211 I have decided to buy a CZ 75. Either a SP-01, P-01 or a 75 DB.

I don't really need it, war is looming but...fuck it, I'm looking.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:16 PM (d1uFV)

212 Keeping one in the chamber depends on the gun too. I keep my P95 loaded and ready to go but it's DA and has the little hammer interrupter thingy so it won't fire even if you drop it. I don't think that's the case with something like a standard 1911.

Posted by: f'd at December 06, 2020 08:18 PM (U8wDl)

213 201, Dang it, I do not have the Mannlicher 88 variant. Those are pretty rare in the States in working order.

I am getting into collecting the early centerfire smokeless and late blackpowder models right now. Been slowly restoring a Lebel which is about complete other than stock work and replacing the barrel with a spare, rebuilding a Springfield Trapdoor-got to finish restoring the lock on that one, and a Mauser 71/84--have to fine tune the extractor on it as it is a new repro.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:19 PM (pO7gM)

214 A gun used for home defense is probably ok to keep loaded but no round in the chamber. That's how I keep my shottys. But other than shotguns, everything is hot and ready at all times.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at

I can't carry outside my home, California. I keep my guns loaded but not one in the chamber. Except for the revolvers.
If I'm in the truck or my gator I take the magazine out. I have a friend that was hunting and freak accident rifle went off in the truck, shrapnel killed my friends young son. A friend's grandfather was missing his arm from climbing a fence with a loaded shotgun when he was a boy. I'm really careful.
The only thing I'm trying to shoot is squirrels or something.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:19 PM (7bcfy)

215 200
Any gun you carry on you for defense, has to be ready to rock. You may
only be able to draw with one hand. You might only a second to draw and
fire. So, for me, any self defense gun has to be ready immediately,
without chambering a round.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:12 PM (d1uFV)

---
This is a good discussion and I suggest that it be done on the basis of calculating risk.

You're assuming that the risk of being pinned/incapacitated/under immediate attack exceeds that of an accidental discharge while drawing and bringing to bear on the target under pressure.

There's also the risk of removing the round from the chamber, which is small, but not zero. After all, there's a reason why police/military armories have those "clearing cans" set up.

It's important to look at all aspects of risk before making a decision, and the risk matrix may vary wildly between individuals and circumstances.

One question I have for the "locked and cocked" crowd: Is there data showing a higher incidence of injury/fatality among civilian who couldn't bring their weapons into action soon enough? What is that incidence?

Now compare that to unintentional (not necessarily negligent - maybe the gun had a malfunction) discharge.

Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet at December 06, 2020 08:19 PM (cfSRQ)

216 At home (the only place I can have a loaded weapon in the Peoples Republic of NYC) I have my Sig loaded but no rounds in the chamber.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:20 PM (uyKdz)

217
Indeed. To the uncles.

My Father-in-law was in the Army's 81st Division and fought in the Pacific. He hated anything Japanese.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 07:49 PM (axyOa)

I had a few uncles in the pacific during WWII. One uncle would say "the yellow race sucks" until the day he died.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 06, 2020 08:20 PM (9Om/r)

218 Kennard huntress Virginia Luce with the Houston County 11-pointer she bagged from her kitchen window on Nov. 8. Luce, 80, dropped the buck with one shot from her .243 at 175 yards. The deer has been gross scored at 160 2/8 B&C

Reindeer got gunned down by Grandma Luce
With a rifle from her kitchen's door
You might think that Grandma's kinda crazy
But as for me it just adds to her lore

Posted by: jsg at December 06, 2020 08:20 PM (gtJ22)

219 17 Yayaaay!! Gun Thread!!!
I read the content quickly. Screaming in digital, excellent report!! I hope you keep it up and keep us apprised of your journey through this worthwhile activity.
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 07:08 PM (uyKdz)
----
Thank you, Scuba_Dude! I will!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 08:20 PM (k42hV)

220 Carrying: chambered
Home defense at night my gun is chambered and ready to go.
Daytime at home nothing in the chamber when my kids were around.
By the time my kids were four and five they were already shooting and the curiosity about guns was removed. They knew what they did and what the consequences were if they were to handle without permission.
No kids around, chambered

Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (0jZnq)

221
Funny, now that I could retire if I wanted, I really like my job and the people I work with.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:15 PM (MVjcR)

I'd say--always stick with something you love, particularly if you get paid for doing it.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (TdMsT)

222 Now I just need to figure out how to sell off all the .45 FMJ I have stockpiled.
Posted by: Mostly Peaceful Grognard at December 06, 2020 08:00 PM (b3x5S)

Whoooaaaaa... I need to buy that from you badly.

Posted by: clutch at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (9UmRs)

223 the world record for a gender reveal party?

August 6th, 1945

that's when the Empire of Japan found out that America had a Little Boy.

and i'm not at all apologetic about it being used. my late FiL was a signalman on The Showboat, BB55, USS North Carolina.

his post?

the signal bridge, way up at the top of the mast, with nothing between him and the kamikazes but his signal flags and signal light.

not even a 20mm or two.

F'em, they started it.

we finished it.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (EQMiV)

224 Can someone lay out for me how we have a prolonged ammo shortage. It seems like a relatively simple construction, unlike, say, a pistol, the production of which could be ramped up and down as demand requires?

Posted by: havelhavolim at December 06, 2020 08:22 PM (fLpTX)

225 214 A gun used for home defense is probably ok to keep loaded but no round in the chamber. That's how I keep my shottys. But other than shotguns, everything is hot and ready at all times.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at

I can't carry outside my home, California. I keep my guns loaded but not one in the chamber. Except for the revolvers.
If I'm in the truck or my gator I take the magazine out. I have a friend that was hunting and freak accident rifle went off in the truck, shrapnel killed my friends young son. A friend's grandfather was missing his arm from climbing a fence with a loaded shotgun when he was a boy. I'm really careful.
The only thing I'm trying to shoot is squirrels or something.
Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:19 PM (7bcfy)

My trunk rifles are also unloaded or broken down. But I don't really depend on them for immediate action for self defense.

My hunter's safety class some....wow...40 years ago now had a big section on how to safely climb over a fence with a rifle/shotgun. Your story reminded me of it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:22 PM (d1uFV)

226 220 Carrying: chambered
Home defense at night my gun is chambered and ready to go.
Daytime at home nothing in the chamber when my kids were around.
By the time my kids were four and five they were already shooting and the curiosity about guns was removed. They knew what they did and what the consequences were if they were to handle without permission.
No kids around, chambered
Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (0jZnq)

I know nothing about guns so this may seem like an incredibly stupid question: can you un-chamber a round without firing the gun?

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (TdMsT)

227 Keeping one in the chamber depends on the gun too. I keep my P95 loaded and ready to go but it's DA and has the little hammer interrupter thingy so it won't fire even if you drop it. I don't think that's the case with something like a standard 1911.
Posted by: f'd at December 06, 2020 08:18 PM (U8wDl)

Standard 1911 does not have a firing pin block safety. Series 80 does.

I carry chambered because I don't trust myself not to short-cycle it and don't want end up having to clear a FTF right when I need it, because that can just ruin your day.

Posted by: hogmartin at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (t+qrx)

228
I'd say--always stick with something you love, particularly if you get paid for doing it.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (TdMsT)
--------
Yup. I have a really amazing situation, work-wise, and I'm in no hurry to give it up. I've been there 35 years now.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (MVjcR)

229 Nurse- yes. Recall the Tacoma Mall shooter back in
2005 or so. There was a guy who ran a knife/sword store in the mall who
carried a little .38. Didn't maintain it and when he went to pull it,
it malfunctioned. Shooter shot him and put him in a a wheelchair for
life.

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:13 PM (yx0HS)

---
This is irrelevant to our discussion, though. A malfunction is different than a carry posture.

And he must have really let that thing go if he managed to make a revolver malfunction.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (cfSRQ)

230 224 Can someone lay out for me how we have a prolonged ammo shortage. It seems like a relatively simple construction, unlike, say, a pistol, the production of which could be ramped up and down as demand requires?
Posted by: havelhavolim at December 06, 2020 08:22 PM (fLpTX)

Demand is sky high.

The Wuhan virus has throttled mfgs all over.

Supplies of all sort are short, primers are critically bottlenecked.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (d1uFV)

231 One question I have for the "locked and cocked" crowd: Is there data showing a higher incidence of injury/fatality among civilian who couldn't bring their weapons into action soon enough? What is that incidence?

Now compare that to unintentional (not necessarily negligent - maybe the gun had a malfunction) discharge.
Posted by: Dude in a pith helmet

I carry my H&K USP with one in the pipe and hammer "decocked".
1st round is safe as a revolver. Double action.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (bkkvA)

232 On the chamber loaded or unloaded, there are some that will fire with one in the chamber if dropped. The 1911 will if not configured properly (Series 80 or light firing pin), the Walther PPK is another that can, and some of the older S&W semi-autos can do so. Even S&W Victory model revolvers and other long action revolver types can do so if dropped on the hammer. Old single action revolvers without transfer bar safeties have this problem which is why the proper carry is with the hammer on an empty chamber.

Either do not drop these, get a drop safe more modern model, or carry with the chamber empty and learn to rack the slide and fire very quickly.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (pO7gM)

233 "Dang it, I do not have the Mannlicher 88 variant. Those are pretty rare in the States in working order. "

Too bad I didn't know. He didn't need it anymore.

Some of these places are literally Gun collecting graveyards.

Posted by: Hesco Gypsy, staring from 457 meters at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (DnGVP)

234
F'em, they started it.

we finished it.
Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:21 PM (EQMiV)
-------
Yep.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (MVjcR)

235 I'm with Weasel on the chambered-round-carry thinggy. That is, whatever one is comfortable with. Because that's how you will, on average, live your life. So, more reliable, in a system sense.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (OTzUX)

236 I know nothing about guns so this may seem like an incredibly stupid question: can you un-chamber a round without firing the gun?
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (TdMsT)

Yes

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (7bcfy)

237 Grog, I have a bunch of 9mm that is useless to me.

Posted by: clutch at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (9UmRs)

238 I know nothing about guns so this may seem like an incredibly stupid question: can you un-chamber a round without firing the gun?
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (TdMsT)

Depends on the gun, a little. With automatics you remove the magazine, work the action/bolt and eject the live round.

Pump/semi-auto shotguns are a little different.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:25 PM (d1uFV)

239 I had a few uncles in the pacific during WWII. One uncle would say "the yellow race sucks" until the day he died.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 06, 2020 08:20 PM (9Om/r)

-------------

My uncle was in the First Mar Div in the pacific. Last battle was Iwo. He had a buddy who was in the 4th Marines. Never knew if his buddy died in the battle or on the death march. He also hated everything Japanese til the day he died.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:26 PM (kTF2Z)

240 Drachinifel, the 5 minute guide to warships guy on youtube, has some videos about the salvage operations at Pearl. I have watched the first two and they are very interesting. Highly recommended.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos (meh, it's a living) at December 06, 2020 08:26 PM (3DZIZ)

241 Loaded, not chambered.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at December 06, 2020 08:27 PM (mZ8JI)

242 Can someone lay out for me how we have a prolonged ammo shortage. It seems like a relatively simple construction, unlike, say, a pistol, the production of which could be ramped up and down as demand requires?
Posted by: havelhavolim at December 06, 2020 08:22 PM (fLpTX)
-----------------

We have several issues going on: One, people are buying ammo like crazy due to "defund the police" and the fear of a Biden presidency.

Two: Covid caused massive supply chain disruptions as plants have been unable to staff up completely due to restrictions.

Three: It costs a lot of money to bring new tooling online for what may just be, from a "building a new factory" standpoint what companies think is a relatively short ammo shortage.

My final thought: There may not be a firearm manufacturer out there willing to take a chance on investing any money in production, with a Biden presidency looming over their head.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:27 PM (WEBkv)

243 CA-75 is still my next buy, has been for a long time. But no hurry. I really should stay vigilant for local/used/private sales, my predominant MO when buying gunzzz. Of course, for now, fuggetadboutit.

And wow, the component shortage appears worse than the last panic, substantially so. No surprise, but still. Just using ammoseek and a few secret online sources as indicators. Definitely worse than 2013.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:27 PM (OTzUX)

244 188

Nurse, I carried a Ruger LCP9s like that for the first year I had it. I'm old school: the modern "just don't touch the trigger" approach to firearm design seems foolhardy to me. Despite my misgivings, though, I decided to start carrying with a round in the chamber after about a year. Paul Harrell has convinced me that what he calls "program compliance" is key. So, if you don't carry regularly because having a round chambered makes you nervous ... try carrying regularly in "Israeli carry" without a round chambered. Then discipline yourself to do it. All. The. Time.

First build the habit of carrying all the time. The other details can be sorted out after you establish program compliance.

Posted by: Mostly Peaceful Grognard at December 06, 2020 08:28 PM (b3x5S)

245 Wish we could figure out a way to do a moron ammo-xchange without me doing a lot of work. Any ideas?

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:28 PM (MVjcR)

246 --------
Yup. I have a really amazing situation, work-wise, and I'm in no hurry to give it up. I've been there 35 years now.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (MVjcR)

That is incredible in this day and age.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:29 PM (TdMsT)

247 I dobt one cat could produce enough airborn ammonia to adversely affect your ammo.

Unless it is a mountain lion.

Posted by: butch at December 06, 2020 08:29 PM (cHvOo)

248 Unchambering is when a lot of accidents happen. As always, be aware of where that bullet is going should it come out.

Posted by: f'd at December 06, 2020 08:30 PM (U8wDl)

249 For 1911's series 80s or those with the short lived Schwarz firing pin block design in the 1930's have firing pin blocks along with some commercial makes, for others, you can get a titanium firing pin which lack the mass if not hit by the hammer to prevent accidental discharge.

Most more modern designs do not malfunction and btw, some ad malfunctions are caused if the disconnector is malfunctioning will fire when the hammer follows when chambering.

Function and safety checks are necessary for carry weapons on a periodic basis.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:30 PM (pO7gM)

250 Wish we could figure out a way to do a moron ammo-xchange without me doing a lot of work. Any ideas?
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:28 PM (MVjcR)
--------------

NoVA MoMe.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:30 PM (WEBkv)

251 Emails, then face to face.
Best way. Course, the hunting forums I fo on are pretty much confined to one state.
I've never shipped ammo?

Posted by: MarkY at December 06, 2020 08:30 PM (Rk3zP)

252 ---
This is irrelevant to our discussion, though. A malfunction is different than a carry posture.

And he must have really let that thing go if he managed to make a revolver malfunction.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (cfSR

okay fair enough. Nurse, if you are going to go to the trouble of carrying a concealed weapon in WA state, you might as well carry it ready for action. Otherwise, you risk having it ripped from your hands and used against you.

Have I brought relevance back to the discussion?

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (yx0HS)

253 the 5 minute guide to warships guy on youtube, has some videos about the salvage operations at Pearl. I have watched the first two and they are very interesting. Highly recommended.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos (meh, it's a living) at December 06, 2020 08:26 PM (3DZIZ)

Link, please.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (VcFUs)

254 245 Wish we could figure out a way to do a moron ammo-xchange without me doing a lot of work. Any ideas?
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:28 PM (MVjcR)

Well you can ship ammo via UPS.
Just a question of morons emailing each other and making arrangements.

I just give my spare ammo to the Nurse.

God willing, I won't have to give Zod his ammo, but if I do...I'll figure something out and mail him his .40 S&W boxes.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (d1uFV)

255 If someone gets into my house and I get the chance he's done. What about outside if you're unlucky enough to have assholes walking down the street throwing Molotov cocktails or just generally wrecking everything like your car or your house? Pull on them and you're going to jail and the crooked DAs will make sure bail is more than you can get your hands on. I'm not going to Crook County jail so I'll be using the Louisville slugger school of reasoning and logic.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (+ya+t)

256
That is incredible in this day and age.
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:29 PM (TdMsT)
-------
Yeah, and there are probably 15 or so people who have been there longer than I have. One guy recently retired after 60 years.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (MVjcR)

257 OK, different question: In a post-apocalypse world, how would you clean/lube your firearm. (Presume all you Hopped is gone.) There's turpentine, gasoline, kerosene, motor oil, that I can think of, none of which seem like *good* options.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (t/Qrm)

258 Emails, then face to face.
Best way. Course, the hunting forums I fo on are pretty much confined to one state.
I've never shipped ammo?
Posted by: MarkY at December 06, 2020 08:30 PM (Rk3zP)
--------------

As long as the state doesn't require an FFL transfer, like CA, shouldn't be an issue.

I boxed up and shipped ammo to TX via UPS a couple of months ago. It's pretty easy to do.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (WEBkv)

259 Lever guns aren't targeted like ARs, yet.

Posted by: butch at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (cHvOo)

260 blake covered it well on the ammo shortage.

It deserves emphasis that, in fact, ramping up ammo production is *not* a simple or low-capital exercise, on the contrary.

The whole industry, generalizing, is a very capital-intensive, yet relatively low-margin, one. Meaning producers don't lightly expand their production. They figure - usually correctly - that expanding for anything other than a sustained, secular increase in demand or pricing is a financial mistake.

I recommend any interested in the topic to read the short blog entry at Powder Valley's website (probably the best low-cost components sources). The author ID's some specific issues, at least WRT primers, making this worse than 2013. Among the factors, Remington's endless organizational/financial woes, and the inability of the Russian producer (Murom - which makes Tula and Wolf ammo and components) to step in, as they did last time, due to C19 and management issues.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (OTzUX)

261 Yeah, and there are probably 15 or so people who have been there longer than I have. One guy recently retired after 60 years.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (MVjcR)

I love reading this.

So many people today detest their work and/or employers.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (TdMsT)

262 257 OK, different question: In a post-apocalypse world, how would you clean/lube your firearm. (Presume all you Hopped is gone.) There's turpentine, gasoline, kerosene, motor oil, that I can think of, none of which seem like *good* options.
Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (t/Qrm)

Motor oil

a bottle of 10w30 will probably last you a lifetime of gun lubing.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:33 PM (d1uFV)

263 I carry a G19 ready to go. About 15 years ago I dropped it down a flight of steel stairs in my parking garage. I was ready for the scene in True Lies but the 3 safety mechanisms in the Glock did its job. It's not going to fire unless you pull the trigger.

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 08:33 PM (2DOZq)

264
I carry my HK USP with one in the pipe and hammer "decocked".

1st round is safe as a revolver. Double action.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (bkkvA)

---
Right, but at some point you have get that round out of the pipe.

This is a source of risk. The risk varies depending on what you use, but there's a reason why police/military have those clearing cans.

If you don't chamber, you don't have that risk. It's eliminated.

There is perhaps more risk if there's ever a confrontation and you need to fire a round. How likely is that? Obviously it's a big unknown.

But clearing a gun is a known risk, with a probability greater than zero.

Note that I'm leaving aside drops, bad trigger discipline, etc.

I'm NOT saying don't carry with one in the chamber, merely that people need to look at their relative risk as part of their decision making process.

I will add that the risk matrix for uniformed LEO/Military is very different from civilians carrying concealed.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:33 PM (cfSRQ)

265 I boxed up and shipped ammo to TX via UPS a couple of months ago. It's pretty easy to do.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (WEBkv)
----
I'm still not certain I've properly thanked you for that. Incredibly generous.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:34 PM (MVjcR)

266 Here is a link to the first episode;

https://tinyurl.com/y2rxyqu2

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos (meh, it's a living) at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (3DZIZ)

267
Motor oil

a bottle of 10w30 will probably last you a lifetime of gun lubing.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:33 PM (d1uFV)
----
Yep. I use Mobil 1.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (MVjcR)

268 Check out thenationalww2museum.org website tomorrow for Pearl Harbor stuff

Posted by: Jeff at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (J2JqR)

269 okay fair enough. Nurse, if you are going to go to
the trouble of carrying a concealed weapon in WA state, you might as
well carry it ready for action. Otherwise, you risk having it ripped
from your hands and used against you.

Have I brought relevance back to the discussion?

Posted by: Jack Burton, who says, I was born ready at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (yx0HS)

---
Counterpoint: She has the gun taken from her and there is no round in the chamber. She knows this, the attacker doesn't. She can confidently kick him in the nuts while he pulls the trigger pointlessly, take it from him, and then chamber a round.

This is not a simple question.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (cfSRQ)

270 248 Unchambering is when a lot of accidents happen. As always, be aware of where that bullet is going should it come out.
Posted by: f'd at December 06, 202

My friend's son was killed when his dad was clearing the rifle. Shrapnel from the truck killed him. I don't know what happened but if it wasn't a freak accident he would have been charged. The boy was 4. It was horrible.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (7bcfy)

271 @217 Berserker-My Uncle Milton was a Battan Death march survivor/POW. I owned Toyota 4x4's and while he was alive you did not let him know you owned a Japanese vehicle. If you seen him driving down the road you ducked, but mostly he'd never see you anyways. You never drove it to his house, obviously, and if he was coming over to your place you parked the vehicle down the street. Hated the Japanese, but at least you knew why.
I had two other Uncles, Babe who was with the Carlson Raiders and Earl who was a regular Marine in the pacific theater, didn't have the hatred that Uncle Milton did.

Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (0jZnq)

272 Tell Grey Fox that the ammonia attack on brass is usually referred to as season cracking and there is a wealth of information on this form of stress corrosion cracking available on line. Season cracking requires a susceptible alloy (such as 70/30 cartridge brass), cold working of that alloy (as at the head end of new cartridge cases or the case necks of cartridge cases which have been resized several times), moisture/humidity, and ammonia or mercury compounds. Eliminate any one of these requirements and season cracking does not occur.

Season cracking may or may not be accompanied by discoloration and the other usual indicators of corrosion. Dye penetrant inspection is the preferred method of detecting season cracking in its early stages. Citric acid solutions are the preferred immediate antidote to season cracking once it is detected. Annealing - where possible - is the best long term antidote.

Posted by: 10x25mm at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (W8sdV)

273 Ha! Was just about to reco Drachinifel's UToob videos on Pearl Harbor salvage operations - he just put up Part 3 the other day, in fact. Very interesting. I've got 2 of the 3 books he lists as sources in the local public or university libraries, they've gone on my enormous list.

Just go to UToob and search Drachinifel/Peal Harbor, or go to his channel. Really thorough and high-quality historical stuff he puts out. Highly recommend his videos on the evolution of naval artillery shells, and the Mers al-Kebir video (British attack on Vichy French fleet in WWII).

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (OTzUX)

274 For the past two months my EDC pistol is an SW Shield 2.0 with red dot. Since I am new to red dots on pistols, a couple times a day I draw and bring the pistol up, to get practice acquiring the dot. The best advice on that I got from Tam over at View From The Porch - she half jokingly said the zen of red dots was "Do not chase the dot - let it come to you."

Shooting a handgun with one requires some unlearning if you're used to iron sights. For one thing, no more focus on the front sight and line it and the rear up with your target - both eyes open, watch the target, and bring the dot up to it. And DO NOT bring the pistol up and then move your head chasing the dot. Sounds simple enough, but it takes some practice to make intuitive.

Posted by: Stephen Skubinna at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (eAlHI)

275 I'm still not certain I've properly thanked you for that. Incredibly generous.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:34 PM (MVjcR)
---------------

No, you did thank me. And, notice, the Horde mind struck, because I was not the only one that sent ammo for the rifle clinic.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (WEBkv)

276 My uncle never talked about the war until I earned the right to call myself Marine. From my recollection:

Guadalcanal was bad. We all had malaria and the fucking Navy left us to starve. I didn't think it could get worse than Tarawa. Then I got to Iwo.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:37 PM (kTF2Z)

277 Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:35 PM (cfSRQ)

Very simple question in IMHO. Carrying a weapon for personal protection not ready to shoot is illogical.

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 08:37 PM (2DOZq)

278 Posted by: 10x25mm at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (W8sdV)
----
Thanks for that!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:38 PM (MVjcR)

279 GWB - as the others say, yep, motor oil. Already used by many in lieu of "gun oils". For cleaning, there are also DIY substitutes.

But a 16oz bottle of CLP will go a loooooong way. Tuck one away in the garage.

And what's this apocalypse you're talking about?

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:39 PM (OTzUX)

280 10X25MM, outstanding! Putting us knowledge like a muthascratcha.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:39 PM (OTzUX)

281 Very simple question in IMHO. Carrying a weapon for personal protection not ready to shoot is illogical.

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 08:37 PM (2DOZq)

---
Refusing to examine data and evaluate risk factors is even more illogical.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:39 PM (cfSRQ)

282 255, dartist,

One of the best anti vandal weapons that is non-lethal is a good pressure washer. A) high pressure water hurts, B) it soaks them and being sopping wet tends to depress energy especially in winter, C) a good one can throw water a pretty far distance, and D) it puts out and messes up pyrotechnics.

There is a reason that water cannons were used to suppress riots back in the day.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:40 PM (pO7gM)

283 261 Yeah, and there are probably 15 or so people who have been there longer than I have. One guy recently retired after 60 years.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (MVjcR)

I love reading this.

So many people today detest their work and/or employers.
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:32 PM (TdMsT)

I'm with Weasel. Been doing what I do, for 23 years at Lockheed. Army for eleven years, and various small businesse for another four. I love what I do, and LM recompenses me well for it. They want me in the corporate technical fellow program next year to begin training new system engineers and *types* *deletes* analysts.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:41 PM (VcFUs)

284 "Well yes, they did torture me, as a matter of fact".

"Thing is, they make such damn good radios".

Posted by: Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake at December 06, 2020 08:41 PM (OTzUX)

285
No, you did thank me. And, notice, the Horde mind struck, because I was not the only one that sent ammo for the rifle clinic.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:36 PM (WEBkv)
-----
Well thanks again!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (MVjcR)

286 @226 Ladyl-Sorry I didn't respond very quick. Don't know if anyone answered for you. Yes you can clear a round from the chamber without firing it.

Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (0jZnq)

287 Looking at this iTarget system Dan Bongino hawks on his show with the understanding that it's a sales pitch and the best one out there probably isn't this one.

https://www.itargetpro.com/

For $100 it might be worth it with the price of ammo.

Also, ordered my Christmas present, a Springfield Saint AR. Should arrive in @ a week
Posted by: jsg at December 06, 2020 07:58 PM (gtJ22)

Awesome! Never heard of it but I'm SO getting that. Here in commiefornia, at least my area, ammo is almost impossible to get.

I shouldn't say almost impossible it is impossible to get. No shop anywhere in the south bay has any ammo I've been able to find, save for a few boxes of 12 gauge shells from time to time.

So, if I finally hunt down a box of the stuff for my new Colt, I'm not keen on using it up at the range. I see they have a 38 sp. and 357, which is perfect for my beautiful new Colt. Thanks for showing that!

Fuck Newsom.

Posted by: clutch cargo Now 100% Lubricant Free at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (L8ADy)

288 There is a reason that water cannons were used to suppress riots back in the day.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:40 PM (pO7gM)

---
We will defend our household from rioters by launching my granddaughter's soiled diapers at them.

More potent than tear gas, trust me.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (cfSRQ)

289 For Pearl Harbor, for those interested in a serious look at many assumptions/myths about the attack, again I strongly recommend:

Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions, by Alan Zimm

Very well done.

Posted by: Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake at December 06, 2020 08:43 PM (OTzUX)

290 I loved what I did for a living, but, got burned out.

IT work.

I thought once I retired, I'd maybe do some part time IT work.

Nope.

Enough is enough.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:44 PM (WEBkv)

291 We will defend our household from rioters by launching my granddaughter's soiled diapers at them.

More potent than tear gas, trust me.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (cfSRQ)

------------

Pretty sure that's covered under the Geneva convention. It should be anyway.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:44 PM (kTF2Z)

292 I'm reading every comment.

This is very helpful. Thank you.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:44 PM (U2p+3)

293 Well thanks again!
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (MVjcR)
------------

You are more than welcome.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:45 PM (WEBkv)

294 I used to like what I did for a living. But not getting recognition for my contributions and not getting a promotion when others who do not do as much as I do get promoted make me look more and more forward to retirement.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:45 PM (uyKdz)

295 Pretty sure that's covered under the Geneva convention. It should be anyway.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:44 PM (kTF2Z)

---
Oh, and ammo supply is NOT a problem.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:46 PM (cfSRQ)

296 288 AH Lloyd,
Ah, That would violate the Chemical and Biological Warfare treaties. You have both the stench and the biological agents involved there.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:46 PM (pO7gM)

297 Old Blue! Thanks for the info on the recall!

My S&W Shield EZ was manufactured during the right period, but it isn't part of the recall. Yay!

Posted by: G. Gnome at December 06, 2020 08:46 PM (OQcPl)

298 One of the best anti vandal weapons that is non-lethal is a good
pressure washer. A) high pressure water hurts, B) it soaks them and
being sopping wet tends to depress energy especially in winter, C) a
good one can throw water a pretty far distance, and D) it puts out and
messes up pyrotechnics.

That's an idea for warmer weather and I can use it to put house fires out. It's getting cold now so I think the assholes won't be out as much, though they tore up downtown Chicago again last night.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 08:46 PM (+ya+t)

299 Oh, and ammo supply is NOT a problem.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:46 PM (cfSRQ)
-----------

Since you no longer have any firearms for your ammo, what have you got for sale?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:47 PM (WEBkv)

300 294 I used to like what I did for a living. But not getting recognition for my contributions and not getting a promotion when others who do not do as much as I do get promoted make me look more and more forward to retirement.
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:45 PM (uyKdz)

One of many aggravations of corporate America - watching lazy fucktards get ahead while you work your ass off and stay right where you are.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 08:47 PM (nakwk)

301 clutch, which Colt do you have? New King Cobra, or Cobra?

Posted by: Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake at December 06, 2020 08:48 PM (OTzUX)

302 Weasel! Thanks for the content. To people who submitted content. Thank you, I read it, very interesting and useful.

I have used the MantisX system for a few months now and I like it a lot.*

I am trying not to be conspiracy guy. But today, in Idaho, I went to Black Sheep sporting goods, which has not had much 9mm, and no 357 mag ammo for many many months. Now they had plenty of 9mm, and some 357 mag. Made me think if the government/manufacturers were keeping circulation low for the election. I know, I know, that is crazy talk Mike.

*Just a note for you guys on the fence about it because you may not have a rail. They sell a version that can go on your magazine, in some ways I think that is more convenient as on my gun, I need to use a screwdriver to remove the unit to charge it.

Posted by: MikeM at December 06, 2020 08:48 PM (IKT63)

303 301 clutch, which Colt do you have? New King Cobra, or Cobra?
Posted by: Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake at December 06, 2020 08:48 PM (OTzUX)

King Cobra. In a fawty, shawty!

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 08:48 PM (nakwk)

304 211 ... MAE,

The CZ 75 is, in my opinion, one of the best 9 mm made. Both Mrs. JTB and I treasure ours. But good luck trying to find one any time soon. If you can get one, try to locate the 22lr Kadet adapter as well.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (7EjX1)

305 One of the best anti vandal weapons that is non-lethal is a good pressure washer. A) high pressure water hurts, B) it soaks them and being sopping wet tends to depress energy especially in winter, C) a good one can throw water a pretty far distance, and D) it puts out and messes up pyrotechnics.

There is a reason that water cannons were used to suppress riots back in the day.
Posted by: whig at December 06,

I have one of those but I don't know how to use it. I have a crap ton of wasp spray outside stashed around. I do use it on wasp nests but that stuff sprays really far.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (7bcfy)

306 @270 Cali Girl-Thats a horrible thing to hear. This is why I really emphasize good gun discipline with people. If I ever go shooting with someone I'm not familiar with I will straight up ask them how they clear their firearm and how they ready it on a firing line, etc.. Before I'll shoot I'll wait and watch them handle their firearm just to make sure. Some people might think I sound like an a-hole but a lot of people said it made them feel more comfortable around me and kept them on their toes how they handled their firearm.

Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (0jZnq)

307 Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 08:47 PM (nakwk)

Exactly Insom. I have been working longer than my current supervisor has been alive. I do take blame for not being aggressive enough in fighting to move ahead. I was under the false belief that you get rewarded for hard work. That and I do not play office politics.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:50 PM (uyKdz)

308 Enough is enough.
Posted by: blake - semi lurker

hehe... BSRN... thought I'd do substitute school RN and be a 'camp nurse' in the summers.
RNs are in demand right now too.

Nope. I'm with you... enough.

Posted by: AZ deplorably isolated at December 06, 2020 08:50 PM (gtatv)

309 I never liked my job but I did appreciate the knowledge it has given me.

I once read a list of top ten factors that makes a job disliked. For example , dealing with an adverse public, government regulation , restrictive time deadlines...... Mine had 10 out of 10.

Insurance claims

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 08:50 PM (2DOZq)

310 Posted by: MikeM at December 06, 2020 08:48 PM (IKT63)
------
My pleasure! And thanks for the shout-out to all the contributors!!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (MVjcR)

311 304 211 ... MAE,

The CZ 75 is, in my opinion, one of the best 9 mm made. Both Mrs. JTB and I treasure ours. But good luck trying to find one any time soon. If you can get one, try to locate the 22lr Kadet adapter as well.
Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (7EjX1)

heh, doing it backwards. I found a Kadet adapter on sale for $300 and bought it. Now I just need the CZ 75.

I do have a CZ P-07, one of my carry guns, and the Kadet adapter for it. Hell of a good firearm system.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (d1uFV)

312 For me, clearing a semi-auto handgun has become rote. Drop the mag, booger hook away from the trigger, weapon pointed in a safe direction, rack the slide. I usually invert the firearm so that gravity helps clear the round. And that be that.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (W4eKo)

313 That's an idea for warmer weather and I can use it to put house fires out. It's getting cold now so I think the assholes won't be out as much, though they tore up downtown Chicago again last night.
Posted by: dartist at December 06, 202

What the hell am I thinking. I have fire hoses all over the place here too. I know how to use those. They are really strong.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (7bcfy)

314 286 @226 Ladyl-Sorry I didn't respond very quick. Don't know if anyone answered for you. Yes you can clear a round from the chamber without firing it.
Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:42 PM (0jZnq)

Some folks up top made it sound like that can be risky.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (TdMsT)

315 Weasel, once again thanks for an informative thread. I am going to be looking for rings for the scope I want to replace my current scope with.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (uyKdz)

316 "and do my brass."

sounds like a euphemism we should give a meaning to.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (t/Qrm)

317 Since you no longer have any firearms for your ammo, what have you got for sale?

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:47 PM (WEBkv)

---
None, they all went down in the canoe accident.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (cfSRQ)

318 kitteh status update: found, fed, and now the silly furry fucktard wants back outside, so the coyotes can get him.

ain't happening, homeboy!

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:53 PM (EQMiV)

319 Some folks up top made it sound like that can be risky.
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (TdMsT)
-------------

Point the firearm in a safe direction and keep your finger off the trigger.

And, take your time, because rushing things usually leads to mistakes.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 08:53 PM (WEBkv)

320 Doing my in-depth 5-minute research last night, ammoseek had 9mm for normal price - limit *1 box* - from some major retailer, forget which. But still. If one needed it, have 2/3 friends order a box, and you have 150 rounds, better than nothing.

The 9mm prices after that shot up to 60 cents a round, about triple normal prices. But - again, if you really want/need it, probably worth grimacing. If you really really need some ammo, suffer the pain, the $100/200 premium, and have some.

This is what I'd say to new gun owners or others who seriously want/need something on their shelf.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:54 PM (OTzUX)

321 A Mo;otov cocktail is a deadly weapon. Anybody carrying or throwing them is a legitimate target.

Posted by: butch at December 06, 2020 08:55 PM (cHvOo)

322 Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (0jZnq)

This guy is not an amateur. He's a 5th generation cattleman, hunter and cowboy. I never asked what exactly happened. It was so sad. They are a wonderful couple.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:55 PM (7bcfy)

323 Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (uyKdz)
-----
Let's talk before you do!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:55 PM (MVjcR)

324 Nurse ratched,

I used to carry double action revolvers and virtually all of them made since the 1940's will not fire if dropped. Even the older double action revolvers back to the beginning of the 1900's won't either unless unusual circumstances exist. No one carries a double action revolver with an empty chamber.

I now carry a semi auto firearm with a grip safety along with a trigger safety and carry it loaded simply due to ease of reloading and greater capacity.

Similarly, in modern semi auto designs since the 90's, such as the Glock, S&W M&P, Shield, and Third Generation, the Sig P series, and Rugers, Springfield XD's etc. will not fire if dropped or even abused.

Old timers on hammer fired semi-autos and revolver folks learned to keep their thumb on the hammer to keep it from cocking when reholstering. If the hammer does not go back, then it cannot fire. You cannot do this with modern striker fired weapons and the most dangerous part of having a loaded weapon is either a) taking it out of the holster or reholstering, and b) unloading it.

There is a unique problem with chambering and rechambering ammo that occurs with semi-autos. One, some powders can deteriorate mechanically by repeatedly chambering the same round and removing it over and over again--can lead to a dud round or worse, the more common effect is that you can cause bullet setback (the bullet is pushed back into the case) which raises the pressure quite a bit. So if you do chamber and empty rounds at the end of the day, make sure to rotate your ammo including which round gets chambered.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 08:56 PM (pO7gM)

325 I'm confident the CZ-75 will remain in production, and even on the idiotic CA roster, so I'm not worried about getting one when/if the panic subsides.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 08:56 PM (OTzUX)

326 Driving home today we heard a bit of "Gun Talk." Answering a caller about manufacturer's quality control during these ramped-up production times, he mentioned a S&W recall, but I didn't catch details. So in the post here, I was enlightened:

a defective hammer that may cause the weapon to fire, possibly multiple times, even with the safety on

Um... yow!

whoopsie!

So, that's one of those gun-violence guns that goes around shooting people on its own? I thought they were a left-wingy myth.

Posted by: mindful webworker
which end has the thing that goes up?
at December 06, 2020 08:56 PM (4/8k4)

327 Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:53 PM (EQMiV)
-----
Glad to hear it!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:56 PM (MVjcR)

328 Let's talk before you do!
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:55 PM (MVjcR)

I will. Just want to see how much they will run me. Looking on the Vortex website

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (uyKdz)

329 Drop the mag, booger hook away from the trigger, weapon pointed in a safe direction, rack the slide. I usually invert the firearm so that gravity helps clear the round. And that be that.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (W4eKo)

Being ambidextrous, i use the fingers of my left hand over the ejection port to 'catch' the live round. Otherwise, sympatico with what you describe here.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (VcFUs)

330 Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (W4eKo)

-----------

Ok, drop the mag. Make sure the weapon is pointed at mother in law's room. What was the last part?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (kTF2Z)

331 Wish we could figure out a way to do a moron ammo-xchange without me doing a lot of work. Any ideas?

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 08:28 PM (MVjcR)

---
sure: send it ALL to me.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (EQMiV)

332 The CZ 75 is, in my opinion, one of the best 9 mm
made. Both Mrs. JTB and I treasure ours. But good luck trying to find
one any time soon. If you can get one, try to locate the 22lr Kadet
adapter as well.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (7EjX1)

I frigging love that gun. I got one back in '85 or so when they first brought them into the country. I read about them for a few years and when I found out they were letting them in a kept my eye out. I was in a gun store one day, and there it was under the counter behind the glass. First one they got in. MINE. lol

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (9Om/r)

333 Great Gun Thread Weasel!

Range report- New Toys edition:

Glock 30- My first .45 auto and first Glock. Great design for both concealability and recoil manageability. Kicks a little more that my myriad of 9mm's, but not much. My wife even had fun shooting it. The stock sights are somewhat.....meh......but they were dead on from the factory at 7 yards. I'll get some nice tritium sights for it down the road.

Foxtrot Mike AR-9- Really fun to shoot, need to get a suppressor for it.....heh.

Fostech AR II Echo trigger: Put this on one of my .300blk AR's with a 7.5" barrel.

O.M.G...... I have a hard time believing ATF approved this thing. For those that may not know about this.....It is a (very expensive$$$) trigger that fires both when you pull it AND when you release it. The most fun you can have with your clothes on. Blew away $60 worth of ammo in less than 2 minutes. Bwahahahahahaha......!

Posted by: Norman Spiny at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (o/0tJ)

334 Ok, drop the mag. Make sure the weapon is pointed at mother in law's room. What was the last part?

Heh. Can I issue a disclaimer?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 08:59 PM (W4eKo)

335 314 LadyL,
For most semi auto firearms, remove the magazine, pull back the slide and the chambered round SHOULD come out. If it does not, make sure to check the chamber with a finger to make sure that the chamber is empty--preferably with the slide locked.

For a double action revolver, easy peasey, open the cylinder with the cylinder release, elevate the muzzle slightly and push in the ejector rod to remove the rounds, preferably over a soft surface.

Shotguns, bolt action rifles, and lever actions can vary in how to unload them. To many variations to describe here.

AR's and AK's are pretty easy and similar to the semi-auto handguns--remove magazine, draw back bolt and lock it which should remove the round in the chamber, and then check the chamber.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:00 PM (pO7gM)

336 OK, different question: In a post-apocalypse world, how would you clean/lube your firearm. (Presume all you Hopped is gone.) There's turpentine, gasoline, kerosene, motor oil, that I can think of, none of which seem like *good* options.
Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 08:31 PM (t/Qrm)

In a pinch, lard and tallow work just fine as preservatives. They don't stink as long as they are pure with no bits of meat or flesh in them to go bad, though lard will turn orange as it ages and make you think that your prized rifle is ruined until you wipe it off and see the shiny metal underneath. They also can serve as wood preservatives too, and though I'm told they might cause wood to rot over time I have arrows that were greased with lard several years ago that are still fine.

This is based on personal experience and (inadvertant) experiment.

Now, how they would stand up as a lubricant for repeating firearms that get hot with extended rapid fire I can't say - the flash points of various animal fats vary based on where in the body they come from but are fairly low, so they might burn off in ,say, an AR15.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 06, 2020 09:00 PM (B1eUX)

337 Some folks up top made it sound like that can be risky.

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:52 PM (TdMsT)

---
It isn't necessarily "risky" but there is an element of risk.

I have seen a gun discharge while it was being cleared, but it was pointed in a safe direction, so no one was injured.

When you clear a gun at the range, you point it in a safe direction. Law enforcement and military armories have special cans/barrels they point the guns at in case it discharges. It is a rare event, but it does happen and people need to be aware of it.

If you are in a situation (say an apartment) where there is no good "safe" direction to point your weapon while clearing it, than perhaps not chambering a round is a better choice.

So long as you practice this way, it is not going to be much of a problem.

The key is to *practice that way.* When you go to the range, don't chamber it until you are about to fire. Make chambering part of how you fire. Make it reflexive. This will make you less likely to forget it doesn't have a round ready to fire.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:00 PM (cfSRQ)

338 Posted by: Norman Spiny at December 06, 2020 08:57 PM (o/0tJ)
------
Happy to do it and congratulations!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:01 PM (MVjcR)

339 326 mindful webworker, believe it is the shield 2.0 in various flavors. For folks that recently bought one, check with S&W immediately via their website.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (pO7gM)

340 I'm with Weasel. Been doing what I do, for 23 years at Lockheed. Army for eleven years, and various small businesse for another four. I love what I do, and LM recompenses me well for it. They want me in the corporate technical fellow program next year to begin training new system engineers and *types* *deletes* analysts.
Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 08:41 PM (VcFUs)

Congrats Bif.
Have friends who did the Tech Fellow program when I was at Boeing. They were an awesome group and I really respect what that program provided.
And they could really do maths!

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (axyOa)

341 One of the best anti vandal weapons that is non-lethal is a good
pressure washer. A) high pressure water hurts, B) it soaks them and
being sopping wet tends to depress energy especially in winter, C) a
good one can throw water a pretty far distance, and D) it puts out and
messes up pyrotechnics.

There is a reason that water cannons were used to suppress riots back in the day.

Posted by: whig at December 06,

^^^This^^^

Posted by: Jame Gumb at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (l3+k2)

342 The CZ 75 is, in my opinion, one of the best 9 mm made.

Count me in the fan club. It is a naturally-pointing weapon, much like the Hi-Power. One of my favorites.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (W4eKo)

343 No range report, but there will be one next few days.

After doing test loads in .380 with 700X, decided to just do test loads for all my calibers with that powder, since I intend to use it up before going back to HP38, my stand-by. Got the 700X during the last panic, only thing I could find - got is as a reserve, not first-line choice. But seems it has decent loads in all my calibers (all handgun).

Will be checking the 45ACP, 38 special, and .357* loads this week. Checking for leading in the 45 and 38, and felt recoil in the .357.

* I use 357 brass, with light loads, in the snubbie revolvers, to reduce fouling build-up in the same place in the cylinders

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (OTzUX)

344 Supplies of all sort are short, primers are critically bottlenecked.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 08:24 PM (d1uFV)

---we just got in 5K CCI mil-spec 223/556 primers from Classic Firearms

so much for buying those Sig red dots on Black Fryday special...

as i told Resident 3vil: "there will be other sight sales... primers, OTOH are hard to come by.

when i get done with the AR builds and the ammo inventory, i guess the reloading supplies are next for a survey.

#First!WorldProblems

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 09:02 PM (EQMiV)

345 Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake

A close reading of that excellent book on Pearl Harbor shows a big error. He asserts that if the Pacific Fleet had sortied, that the damage would be minimal. He rates the BBs as resistant to IJN torpedoes.

I strongly disagree. Many in the fleet would have been sunk in deep water, with heavy personnel losses, esp. in engineering rates. We dodged a big bullet when hit in port.

Part of my reasoning is the material condition of stuffing tubes in a peacetime environment. The fleet was responsive, based on rapid AA fire. But good damage control takes prior planning and lots of training. We had that by 1943.

If the IJN had attacked a week prior, there was a weekend alert with extensive training. Less damage would have been done, with much higher losses. As it was an entire training year of IJN Naval Aviators were killed at Pearl harbor.
They had a very small training pipeline.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:03 PM (u82oZ)

346 Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:51 PM (7bcfy)

For something slightly more useful, but needing practice. Look at a 3 foot length of string, paracord, or light poly rope.

https://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/fmrope.html

I walk with a cane, because of nerve damage. That's a wicked weapon. I also carry the 3' para cord. When, or if, queried, i tie a fancy knot to show it as a hobby. Look at the link.

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 09:03 PM (VcFUs)

347 Maywood, IL, a town not far from here has a street named Bataan Drive. Named because so many guys from there were in the death march. They used to have a parade every year. Interesting tie in, next door neighbor carried a BAR and an early version flame thrower in the Philippines. Guy was whacked and I understand why.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 09:03 PM (+ya+t)

348 For folks in apartments that need to clear HANDGUN rounds, a loaded bookcase of old books is a decent backstop. Also you can buy soft body armor panels or old body armor that is decertified to use. Still have to practice the rules of gun safety by making sure that your clearing direction is safe before doing it, knowing what is behind your backstop, and assuming that your firearm is loaded.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:06 PM (pO7gM)

349 "Tell Grey Fox that the ammonia attack on brass is usually referred to as season cracking"

Thanks. I ran across the term when trying to find more info but I don't think that I ever tried it as a search term.

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 06, 2020 09:07 PM (B1eUX)

350 My pistols are loaded. But not chambered.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 08:06 PM (U2p+3)

I keep mine with a snap-cap in and the mag next to it at home. Insert, rack, ready. And that way I can do dry fire drills easy.

Once I start carrying "for real" it will be locked & cocked (1911). (I've been out once or twice getting used to carrying and trying to figure my best carry option.)

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 09:07 PM (t/Qrm)

351 As it was an entire training year of IJN Naval Aviators were killed at Pearl harbor.

They had a very small training pipeline.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:03 PM (u82oZ)

---
The true genius of the US during WW II was creating not just a pipeline, but a gushing spring of pilots.

Our noobs came out of school with more flying hours than veteran Axis pilots, and the results were obvious.

BTW, that was part of why the Tuskegee Airmen kicked so much ass. They'd been held back from combat to the point that they had ludicrous amounts of flying hours, so naturally they dominated.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:08 PM (cfSRQ)

352 343 Rhomboid, I found 700x to be dirty like Unique unless loaded to higher pressure levels. As usual, YMMV.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:09 PM (pO7gM)

353 One of the things that is frustrating me regarding "The Shortage" is that even so-called off-caliber firearms are unavailable. I have been trying in vain to locate an AR platform chambered in 6.8 SPC II. No joy, so far.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:09 PM (W4eKo)

354 My mother was 4 years old living on Oahu on December 7, 1941. Said all she remembers is her mother bursting through the door at Sunday school, throwing her in the car, and driving home.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 06, 2020 09:10 PM (kTF2Z)

355 What kind of gun would be best for taking down the anarchists, mad bombers, and evil oriental masterminds? Just curious.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 06, 2020 07:05 PM (ftFVW)

---
claymores, Bouncing Bettys and fougasse, of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_fougasse

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 09:11 PM (EQMiV)

356 NaCly Dawg, literally don't even remember him making that assertion, which indeed seems silly on its face.

It's more the myths and conventional wisdom he ventilates that I found interesting. Such as the "failure" to attack oil storage and ship-repair infrastructure being a "mistake" by the Japanese. From any angle, when looked at seriously, nope.

One of my favorite parts is how Fuchida f**ked up his own signalling plan (he was co-designer of the attack plan and air group commander for the entire Dai Ichi Kido Butai, or First Strike Force, the Japanese carrier task force). One flare for surprise, two for "they've been alerted" (or the other way around, forget .... hey! It was *his* plan, his attack, I can forget it now, he didn't forget it, but ....).

He fired one flare (from his lead plane, where he was back-seating). He was afraid the first wave hadn't seen it. So. He fired ..... a second flare. Yeah. WTF? So he sent the exact opposite command he meant to do. It was all about whether torpedo bombers or dive bombers and fighters were to go in first (torpedo planes slow/vulnerable, with total surprise, best to have them go first).

And the 2nd wave lost nearly half their torpedo planes.

Lots of other interesting stuff about Fuchida and Genda not exactly writing the attack plan they were told to write, use of modified naval artillery shells for the level bombing, etc.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:12 PM (OTzUX)

357 Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd

+ 6.022 x 10²³

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:13 PM (u82oZ)

358 305 CaliGirl,
Wasp spray and other pesticides are not classified as non-lethal and some folks have been charged using it for self defense.

Same with Bear sized and strength Pepper Spray. It varies by state and by your local DA as to what might make them mad.

However, a good fire extinguisher is another good non-lethal alternative whether water or foam.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:13 PM (pO7gM)

359 @255 dartist- If you have a conceal and carry hopefully you had a good instructor that informed you of your local and state laws as far as stand your ground or castle doctrine, etc. I can't emphasize enough knowing what laws you have in whatever state you live in pertaining to stand your ground and castle doctrine. Castle doctrine can have different details/specifics from state to state. Attached garage, un-attached garage, tool sheds, property lines.
I really recommend people find out there local laws to this stuff. I recommend finding a gun shop or law enforcement that can turn you on to a good home/self defense class that teaches you specifics of the laws where you live and places like neighboring states you might visit.
As far as a mob in your neighborhood you would want to learn how to stand at the ready properly with whatever type of firearm you have. You want to learn how to identify people that look like they might pose the most serious threat in a mob. Learning how to stand at the ready like you know wtf you are doing with your firearm rather than waving your guns around like that poor couple in St Louis, the McCloskeys is really good to know. A mob of people walking up to someone in the proper stance at the ready is going to make them think twice. It might be all you need to avoid escalating the situation.

Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (0jZnq)

360

So, I see just a few comments in Insomniac wants to bar us o/r cookie lovers from owning firearms.

An attorney wants to call US extensively impaired.
Well ain't that rich.

Posted by: TeeJ at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (H8mJH)

361 I'm Here.
Don't have anything to report but heard a rumor there might be a range trip in the near future.I did read the content though and although I feel like I know a little more each week, I am also aware of how little I know.Thanks Weasel. I appreciate you.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (sd8p8)

362 353
One of the things that is frustrating me regarding "The Shortage" is
that even so-called off-caliber firearms are unavailable. I have been
trying in vain to locate an AR platform chambered in 6.8 SPC II. No joy,
so far.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:09 PM (W4eKo)

---
Part of the problem is that people are buying up *anything*.

So even less common stuff is going up up up.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (cfSRQ)

363 However, a good fire extinguisher is another good non-lethal alternative whether water or foam.
Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:13 PM (pO7gM)

With a nice, sturdy canister you can beat someone to death with.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (nakwk)

364 353 Notorious BFD,
Try the 6.8 SPC forum, they are some nice folks that I consulted back in the day on a build. They might know of the whereabouts of some of the component parts.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:15 PM (pO7gM)

365 And the 2nd wave lost nearly half their torpedo planes.

Lots of other interesting stuff about Fuchida and Genda not exactly writing the attack plan they were told to write, use of modified naval artillery shells for the level bombing, etc.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:12 PM (OTzUX)
-----------------

I seem to recall the Japanese were shocked at how fast US forces recovered from the initial surprise and started shooting back. From what I understand, initiative was frowned upon in the IJN whereas Americans, at the time, understood that "not my job" doesn't cut it in a fight.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 09:15 PM (WEBkv)

366 AH Lloyd, correct. Tuskegee guys had far more training and seasoning than most deploying for combat. And as you noted Japan had the exact opposite problem - no pipeline. It wasn't really Midway that was the *big* hit on their experienced pilots, as most were rescued. It was the grinding attrition in the Solomons that really burnt off most of Japan's best airmen, it was prolonged.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:16 PM (OTzUX)

367 363 So says good ole Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch fame. For folks stuck in gun free zones, almost every one of them would allow a fire extinguisher.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:16 PM (pO7gM)

368 357
Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd

+ 6.022 x 10��

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:13 PM (u82oZ)

---
It was my understanding that there would be no math.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:17 PM (cfSRQ)

369 whig, I'm resigned to dirty results, as I'm sort of used to it - most of my loads are at the low end of the range, so filth is a way of life, so to speak. Even at max load, TrailBoss makes my Model 66 so dirty I wipe it down with alcohol half way through a match.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:17 PM (OTzUX)

370 Part of the problem is that people are buying up *anything*.

That was my immediate thought when I kept seeing "sold out". And that's even for the plus or minus $2500 range price tags.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:17 PM (W4eKo)

371 Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (sd8p

-------
Always a pleasure to have you here!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:18 PM (MVjcR)

372 Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:09 PM (W4eKo)

Right .32 Win Spl and .45/70 nowhere on shelves either.

Posted by: clutch at December 06, 2020 09:18 PM (9UmRs)

373 Old Blue, thank you for the recall notice!

Posted by: SuperMayorSuperRonNirenberg-Buffest Mayor In The Universe at December 06, 2020 09:18 PM (/Hc9U)

374 However, a good fire extinguisher is another good non-lethal alternative whether water or foam.
Posted by: whig at December 0

I have those too. I live on a ranch and I always think what would I do if someone up to no good surprised me when I was outside alone.
I figure they're charging me for defending myself no matter what I do but I'd live to tell.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 09:19 PM (7bcfy)

375 Try the 6.8 SPC forum, they are some nice folks that I consulted back in
the day on a build. They might know of the whereabouts of some of the
component parts.

Great suggestion and thanks. I have that bookmarked and had been meaning to check it out.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:19 PM (W4eKo)

376 blake, the first wave woke up Pearl Harbor (duh), and the second wave paid the price. As NaCly noted, significant losses, most in the second wave, for the attacking forces.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:20 PM (OTzUX)

377 366
AH Lloyd, correct. Tuskegee guys had far more training and seasoning
than most deploying for combat. And as you noted Japan had the exact
opposite problem - no pipeline. It wasn't really Midway that was the
*big* hit on their experienced pilots, as most were rescued. It was the
grinding attrition in the Solomons that really burnt off most of
Japan's best airmen, it was prolonged.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:16 PM (OTzUX)

---
They also all had to have college degrees.

Think about that for a second. All the black men had to *also* have college degrees.

These guys were the elite of the elite.

Then they got *two years* of training, first in P-40s and then in P-47s and P-51s.

They could have been instructors by the time they were allowed in combat. No wonder they cut a swath through the Luftwaffe.

I've interviewed them and they are amazing men..

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:21 PM (cfSRQ)

378 Excellent report. screaming in digital.

Re: .32 Auto. One of my favorite pocket guns I let slip away was a Beretta Tomcat. I would buy another.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:21 PM (KnJdm)

379 One advantage to black powder is you clean with just water. You can lube for rust prevention with any oil available: good gun oil, sewing machine, 3-in1, motor oil, etc. I normally use Balistol or Remoil.

Turns out lamb tallow is excellent for preventing rust. It never goes rancid and it good for metal and wood. I always have some on hand because it is an ingredient for lubing the felt wads used in cap and ball revolvers and BP cartridges. I get it from Dixie Gun Works when it's available. Costs more than mutton tallow but has less scent.

I actually use Renaissance Wax on the exterior of my guns these days. Again, it's not cheap but a little goes a long way.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:21 PM (7EjX1)

380 369 Rhomboid,
I've found a lot of powders, such as Titegroup that are dirty at the low end of pressure tend to clean their act up at higher levels.

I've also had good luck with medium 1300 or so fps .357 Titegroup loads--believe it is double based and burns a bit hotter than single based powders.

Unique has cleaned its act up with the reformulation but I am keeping my stock of that for light cast bullet rifle loads.

Mostly using shotgun powders for practice rounds and a particular favorite of mine is Universal Clays by Hodgdon. Metered better than the old Unique and did not have the graphite in it so cleaner in firing.

Trailboss, I have some for some really old rifles that are at the blackpowder/smokeless era. Not really that fond of it and was going to try Tinstar which was Western's version but now Hodgdon has bought Accurate/Ramshot powders.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:22 PM (pO7gM)

381 dumb rubes, didnt you submit to legitimate president biden?

Posted by: lotsobugs at December 06, 2020 09:22 PM (hCqcJ)

382 JROD,
Good input and I just figured out a stocking stuffer for Mrs D... A gun class update.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 06, 2020 09:23 PM (axyOa)

383 #353, keep checking the Palmetto site for 6.8 SPC II. They do a batch from time to time.

Posted by: ck at December 06, 2020 09:23 PM (iBg56)

384 >>>I've got some serious reservations about the safety of some of what I had down there.

I'd shoot it. The ammo. Not the cat.

Crack open an ammo can that has had ammo for any length of time and you smell ammonia. Otherwise. Store it in the storage unit, if it concerns you, or pick up some ammo cans.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (KnJdm)

385 AH Lloyd, very cool (interviewing the Tuskegee guys).

Any idea why a short stretch of I-15 that passes MCAS Miramar here in San Diego is named after the Tuskegee airmen?? I haven't bothered to research it, but know of no connection whatsoever between them and the then-Camp Kearny Marine airbase. Seems odd. And there are plenty of Marine/Navy aviators and units to honor that have direct connections.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (OTzUX)

386 can you un-chamber a round without firing the gun?
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (TdMsT)

Yes. But you end up with a single round (assuming you do the steps in the right order) popping out and you have to catch it/jigger the angle/chase it when it comes out. No biggie unless you screw that up and have to chase a round under the couch or your dog thinks it's a new game of keep-away.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (t/Qrm)

387 We paid a big price to win the Pacific campaign. None of those battles -- sea, land, or air -- was easy. I don't know much about the Pacific, so I don't know why we didn't just run naval blockades and use subs to eliminate Japan's merchant marine and naval supply convoys while we repaired and built up our fleet. Japanese soldiers were useless sitting on blockaded islands. Let 'em starve.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (KAi1n)

388
I actually use Renaissance Wax on the exterior of my guns these days. Again, it's not cheap but a little goes a long way.
Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:21 PM (7EjX1)
-------
Good stuff!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (MVjcR)

389 Re: .32 Auto. One of my favorite pocket guns I let slip away was a Beretta Tomcat. I would buy another.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:21 PM (KnJdm)

---
They are running $400+ at the moment.

.32 ACP is now cheaper than 9mm. Also more plentiful.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (cfSRQ)

390 Whig,
I have a large canister of bear spray in my glove box. And a baseball bat in the back seat.

And AWD.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (U2p+3)

391 374 CaliGirl,
Living in the rural area that you do, usually gives you more options via the local DA and Sheriff and leeway in treating strangers a bit more roughly due to time for law enforcement to arrive. There is a pepperball cannon that will fire quite nasty pepper and paintballs at a distance that might also come handy.

Be safe out there.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (pO7gM)

392 Yeah, 381, we're so dumb, we're discussing the superiority of the Tuskegee Airmen over the German Air Force and how attrition of experienced personnel lead to the downfall of the IJN.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (WEBkv)

393 how bout them seahawks.

Posted by: chango butt at December 06, 2020 09:26 PM (c/0cj)

394 They are running $400+ at the moment.

.32 ACP is now cheaper than 9mm. Also more plentiful.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:25 PM (cfSRQ)

I saw one last week when I was picking up a .22LR rifle for my youngest. Same model I sold. But I wasn't shopping for me.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:27 PM (KnJdm)

395 Didn't know Hodgdon had bought Ramshot. Hmmm.

Universal, vs. Universal Clays, is my other generic back-up powder for handguns. Actually used a Spanish equivalent (goes by the designation CSB-1) during the last panic, was very pleased with it. So I have a jug of Universal in the powder magazine as my *other* reserve supply (have an 8-lber of HP38, too).

My shooting is shamefully, inexcusably lower in volume than it should be, so my component supply, at this rate, could outlast me (though not likely - I'm in perfect health).

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:27 PM (OTzUX)

396 387 We paid a big price to win the Pacific campaign. None of those battles -- sea, land, or air -- was easy. I don't know much about the Pacific, so I don't know why we didn't just run naval blockades and use subs to eliminate Japan's merchant marine and naval supply convoys while we repaired and built up our fleet. Japanese soldiers were useless sitting on blockaded islands. Let 'em starve.
Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (KAi1n)

There is a long, long, long and more accurate answer to this question.

The short version is: we had to fight to save Australia and we had to fight to deprive the IJN and those army units stationed on Pacific Islands their strategic mobility.

Add to that the moral imperative to return to those we were forced to abandon in the Phillipines.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 09:27 PM (d1uFV)

397 390, Nurse, I would check and see what local laws have to say about bear spray--granted I doubt charges given your gender, but just for safety sake, throw in an old ball glove and a ball. People have been charged with baseball bats as offensive weapons--particularly during those Auntiefa attacks on other demonstrators.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:27 PM (pO7gM)

398
Posted by: JROD at December 06, 2020 09:14 PM (0jZnq)

That's good advice. Thank you for that. I want my concealed carry but I'm worried about using it. That poor kid in Kenosha has a good chance of doing time for defending his life and politics here are even worse. Time to lay low for a little while and avoid conflict I think. Gets worse I'm dumping everything and getting back in the bush, lol.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 09:27 PM (+ya+t)

399 re: Pearl Harbor

I'll just leave this here

https://annapuna.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-7th.html

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:28 PM (xtThL)

400 Sir Weasel,

Thank you again for the content, the moderation, and the lively debate. I always learn something, or read something that causes me to step back and reassess a ground rule or assumption here.

Bif

Posted by: BifBewalski AOS Moron at December 06, 2020 09:28 PM (VcFUs)

401 #353, keep checking the Palmetto site for 6.8 SPC II. They do a batch from time to time.

Thanks. The ammo ain't the problem. It's the loss of my previous 6.8 bang stick in that canoeing accident that is my dilemma.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:28 PM (W4eKo)

402 Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (KAi1

I think it was mostly about airfields.

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 09:30 PM (2DOZq)

403 can you un-chamber a round without firing the gun?
Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 08:23 PM (TdMsT)

Unless you're certain dim grunts with their M-16s at the White House in Tuzla, Bosnia. One of those was a regular occurrence. But it was a special brand of stupid when the THIRD guy did it, WHILE THE SGT MAJ WAS STANDING THERE SCREAMING AT THE FIRST TWO.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (t/Qrm)

404 The firearm shortages are more extensive than I would have thought. It has invaded the black powder world. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, and the other usual suspects are pretty much cleaned out of BP guns. Same for Taylor and Company even with their more expensive rifles which can easily cost around $2,000 dollars. I should try to learn who is buying them for my own curiosity.

I was in the local Cabelas last week. Their used gun section had maybe ten percent of the usual number of guns and no shotguns at all.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (7EjX1)

405 395, Rhomboid, Sorry, I used the old name for Universal--it used to be called Universal Clays.

I have used a fair amount of Accurate 2, Silhouette, TAC, Zip, and some other powders. Guess I will have to check out Nobel, Lovex, and Vihtavuori which is available but pricey. Vihtavuori has a powder for .32 S&W Long that puts a 100 gr cast bullet out at about 900 fps.

Surprisingly I have used Alliant but little other than Unique and Red Dot.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (pO7gM)

406
Any idea why a short stretch of I-15 that passes
MCAS Miramar here in San Diego is named after the Tuskegee airmen?? I
haven't bothered to research it, but know of no connection whatsoever
between them and the then-Camp Kearny Marine airbase. Seems odd. And
there are plenty of Marine/Navy aviators and units to honor that have
direct connections.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (OTzUX)

---
No idea.

There were two groups of them. The bomber pilots never saw action, and that was a big issue.

I only talked to the fighter pilots, who were impressive. I asked Lt. Col. Alexander Jefferson what his most striking memory was and after a minute he said that there was a moment when they were escorting a raid of 1,000 bombers into Germany and the sky was perfectly clear.

The fighters were faster than the bombers, so they flew back and forth, and he was up on top, looking down on a formation that stretched to the horizon, bright in the sunlight and he remembered thinking that no power on earth could stop them.

He even felt sorry for the Germans.

He told me that he also knew this was a one-in-a-lifetime thing. That there would never again be anything like it.

I will never forget that conversation.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (cfSRQ)

407 Turns out lamb tallow is excellent for preventing rust.
You are going to use cow fat and break our Moron caste!

Posted by: andycanuck at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (UDapT)

408 We should have gone into a holding pattern, shored up Attu and Kiska -- and build a B-29 capable runway -- and then put everything else into Manhattan.

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (KAi1n)

409 I have one of those but I don't know how to use it. I
have a crap ton of wasp spray outside stashed around. I do use it on
wasp nests but that stuff sprays really far.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 08:49 PM (7bcfy)

---
wasp spray is likely nerve agent. there's a reason bugs twitch after you spray them with bug spray.

IOW, a deadly weapon, because it will w*rk on humans as well as insects.

i would STRONGLY advise against using it, except in extreme circumstances, where lethal force is justified. look at the can: if it says atropine and 2-PAM chloride are antidotal for human exposure, it's a nerve agent.

when i was the NBC NCO for a NG unit here in SoCal, i made my training as realistic as possible by using pesticides to demonstrate positive results with various detection gear...

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 09:32 PM (EQMiV)

410 I was just in Texas. That's about as gunny as I got this week. This morning I was in Louisiana and drove to Virginia today.

Along that way I saw not a single Biden sign, and tons of Trump signs.

Posted by: blaster at December 06, 2020 09:33 PM (spO/y)

411 SFGoth, Mark has most of the answer there, but note that we did, in fact, bypass/isolate Japanese forces from the get-go. Mostly in the central Pacific, Marshalls. We took Kwajalein and Roi-Namur (best anchorages/potential for bases), but other islands were left untouched - except for use as practice. I believe this is unique in history.

We would have new naval air squadrons (and, as I learned from a Drachinifel video just yesterday, on the cruiser USS Birmingham - even naval ships) "practice" against live targets, that could shoot back, on bypassed islands. Before they went into front-line combat much further west, and south.

Charles Lindbergh participated in what we'd call operational test & evaluation with a squadron of Navy Corsairs in the central Pacific, experimenting with slinging/delivering bombs (not the plane's intended use). Until the squadron skipper realized he had one of the most famous humans alive going up in combat against non-Geneva compliant adversaries - an end was put to that operation.

He didn't give detail, but I assume the Birmingham did initial shore bombardment practice at San Clemente Island, then bypassed islands in the central Pacific, before joining in for Okinawa (the ship had been hit many times, and had just had its second major repair/overhaul in CONUS).

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:33 PM (OTzUX)

412 9:30 Thank You!!

Seriously y'all - thanks for being here and sending in your pics and stories and sharing all of your experience. You're the best.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:33 PM (MVjcR)

413
The firearm shortages are more extensive than I would have thought. It
has invaded the black powder world. Cabelas, MidwayUSA, and the other
usual suspects are pretty much cleaned out of BP guns. Same for Taylor
and Company even with their more expensive rifles which can easily cost
around $2,000 dollars. I should try to learn who is buying them for my
own curiosity.

I was in the local Cabelas last week. Their used gun section had
maybe ten percent of the usual number of guns and no shotguns at all.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (7EjX1)

---
It wouldn't take much of a demand spike to clear out a lot of those low-volume guns.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:34 PM (cfSRQ)

414 Whig,
There's a baseball rolling around somewhere. And I spend enough time in the woods, the bear spray is practically universal in subarus around here.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 09:34 PM (U2p+3)

415 As always, thanks Weasel.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:34 PM (W4eKo)

416 Three more members of USS Oklahoma's crew that were killed on 7 Dec 1941 have been accounted for.

https://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=108015

The battleship USS Oklahoma capsized during the attack. For several weeks after the attack it was one of the most haunting reminders of the attack to hear tapping coming from men still trapped in the ship.

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:35 PM (xtThL)

417 Seriously y'all - thanks for being here and sending in your pics and stories and sharing all of your experience. You're the best.
Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:33 PM (MVjcR)
--------------

Groovy thread, weasel.

Catch you later!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 09:35 PM (WEBkv)

418 We should've started Manhattan 4 years earlier; we could've nuked them in response to Pearl Harbor. That would have been the ultimate "fucked around and found out".

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:36 PM (KAi1n)

419 The battleship USS Oklahoma capsized during the attack. For several weeks after the attack it was one of the most haunting reminders of the attack to hear tapping coming from men still trapped in the ship.
Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:35 PM (xtThL)
------------------

And knowing there wasn't a single damned thing that could be done about it.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 09:36 PM (WEBkv)

420 Didn't realize Palmetto also sold firearms. I guess I thought it was just ammo and accessories. Anyway, they're pretty much out of stock across the board. Sigh.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:36 PM (W4eKo)

421 Weasel,

Before the ONT shows up here's a massive thank you for another gun thread. Glad you are doing so well. Best to all the family. I hope for your sake you can get down to Weasel Acres for a while.

Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:37 PM (7EjX1)

422 415 As always, thanks Weasel.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:34 PM (W4eKo)
----
Happy to do it,

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:37 PM (MVjcR)

423 Unless you're certain dim grunts with their M-16s at
the White House in Tuzla, Bosnia. One of those was a regular
occurrence. But it was a special brand of stupid when the THIRD guy did
it, WHILE THE SGT MAJ WAS STANDING THERE SCREAMING AT THE FIRST TWO.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 09:31 PM (t/Qrm)

---
MP firing a round through the roof of their armory while clearing their weapons.

"What's that barrel over there for?"

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:38 PM (cfSRQ)

424
Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing at December 06, 2020 09:35 PM (WEBkv)
-----
Thanks bro!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:38 PM (MVjcR)

425 Oh, Weasel, on my R700 build, got a PTG bottom metal with a removable mag for a good deal on Ebay and ordering the mags for it probably Monday or Tuesday. My M16 style ejector for the PTG Remington bolt is still backordered from Midway so I might just order one directly from PTG and keep the other as a spare.

Probably going to pillar bed the action in the Remington synthetic stock with Brownell's adjustable pillars. I only paid $29 bucks for it from CDNN on closeout so mounting the barrel and the action in it would give me something to shoot if necessary in short order.

Still debating on a better stock with full action bedding blocks and the barrel selection depends on the cartridge I choose.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:38 PM (pO7gM)

426 Guess we're winding down.

Thanks to everyone showing up.

Thanks to Weasel for running the show.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 09:38 PM (d1uFV)

427 Posted by: JTB at December 06, 2020 09:37 PM (7EjX1)
----
Thank you, JTB!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (MVjcR)

428 SFGoth

The Japanese looked at the Aleutians and thought the US could build airfields there to attack the Home Islands. Hence the diversionary strike at Dutch Harbor while taking Attu and Kiska.

The reality of airfields in the islands? The weather. The weather. And in the summer of 1942 the airfield at Dutch Harbor would undulate under aircraft.

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (xtThL)

429
re: Pearl Harbor

I'll just leave this here

https://annapuna.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-7th.html

What a moving experience to walk onto that ship and see that.

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (+ya+t)

430 rhomboid

I agree is is a good book. He has a tight lock on the IJN attack plan.

Despite the surprise attack, US Navy response was rapid, and effective, as shown by the many lost torpedo bombers of the second wave.

His assertion is on page 295-299.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (u82oZ)

431 414 Nurse, that works. Always have a reason to carry something like that at hand and yours is very reasonable.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (pO7gM)

432 Didn't realize Palmetto also sold firearms. I guess I thought it was just ammo and accessories. Anyway, they're pretty much out of stock across the board. Sigh.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 06, 2020 09:36 PM (W4eKo)

Up until the Kung Flu Freakout you could get their stripped lowers for as low as $40 each.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 06, 2020 09:40 PM (/Dgcm)

433 Thank you, Weasel for another great thread.

The expertise here is amazing and a little intimidating!

Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (TdMsT)

434 Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at December 06, 2020 09:38 PM (d1uFV)
----
My pleasure, M A E.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (MVjcR)

435 Thanks again, Weasel! I hope to dig deeper in the mysteries of the Cheapass M70 next week.

I'll let you know if I learn anything worthwhile.

Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (cfSRQ)

436 #401 No, not for ammo, Palmetto makes 6.8 SPC uppers. They don't always stock them but like all their rifles they have DC Machine barrels which are excellent.

Posted by: ck at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (iBg56)

437 Thanks Weasel!

Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (+ya+t)

438 when i was the NBC NCO for a NG unit here in SoCal, i made my training as realistic as possible by using pesticides to demonstrate positive results with various detection gear...
Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2

The only way I'd spray someone with wasp spray is if I was in fear of my life and I can't get to a firearm. I'd use whatever I had. And you guys made me think of all the other chemicals I have and where they are stored.
I have gates but I've had cars sneak in after a car has left. I'm outside gardening and there's a shady character there suddenly. My mind is thinking where defensive items are and how to use them if necessary.

Posted by: CaliGirl at December 06, 2020 09:42 PM (7bcfy)

439 AP!

how's the recovery coming?

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 09:42 PM (EQMiV)

440 Posted by: Ladyl at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (TdMsT)
------
Very happy to do it! Thanks for being here and classing up the place!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:43 PM (MVjcR)

441 Thanks, Mr. Weasel.

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:43 PM (KnJdm)

442 I'll let you know if I learn anything worthwhile.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (cfSRQ)
------
Thanks as always, AHL!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (MVjcR)

443 Up until the Kung Flu Freakout you could get their stripped lowers for as low as $40 each.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 06, 2020 09:40 PM (/Dgcm)

I purchased a COMPLETE Stealth lower shipped for $129 in January.

Posted by: blaster at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (spO/y)

444 Hope you get to the farm soon, weasel.

Those trees aren't going to grow themselves, you know.

Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (U2p+3)

445 441 Thanks, Mr. Weasel.
Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:43 PM (KnJdm)

Don't do that. Now he's going to start putting on airs and such.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (nakwk)

446 I'm Baaaack! Boy, Giggles was really Chatty Cathy tonight. Lot's to read, lots of comments, some I read while she told me things for the xxxthtime.

Weasel, a secondary NoVAMoMe for a waepontaek? I'm in. Also, for those interested, the poly80 build proceeds apace. So well so, I've another being milled in my kitchen as we speak. Which is designated for the Palmetto State Armory pistol upper that arrived this week.

IF a meet up, NoVa or somewheres close, I've now some pieces parts and experience in milling. I can let folks use my equipment, they just have to buy the blank and do the work

McGyver, back to catching up

Posted by: McGyver at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (rJ1YP)

447 Thanks Weasel. Going t attempt to find the Ruger 1/022 takedown his week. Did not go to he gun show because mask Nazis.

Found some 22LR so thats good.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'killin ain't hrd. It's not killin thets hrd' at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (WekKK)

448 A P-38E in the Aleutians at Adak in late 1942

http://aleutianplanes.com/p-38s/P-38E_41-2239_xx_Adak.jpg

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (xtThL)

449 Raid is weakened G nerve agent.

No, really.

Posted by: blaster at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (spO/y)

450 Posted by: dartist at December 06, 2020 09:41 PM (+ya+t)
-----
My pleasure! Thank you!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (MVjcR)

451 SFGoth

4 years early for the Manhattan project is right out.

It could not have happened earlier. We needed to be at war with Germany, and fully mobilized. With a feared German Nuke program to boot. We may have has the weapons sooner, in 1944, but lost time in a fissile element separation error.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (u82oZ)

452 Thanks for the gun thread, Weasel. Will look at laser targeting setups.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:45 PM (u82oZ)

453 Posted by: nurse ratched at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (U2p+3)
------
I know! Keep yourself safe.

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:46 PM (MVjcR)

454 Thanks again Weasel,
Plan to get to the range and shoot up some old moldering reloads this week from several years back. Some Precision Moly bullets that I did not particularly care for when cleaning the barrel so they have sat and rested.

Being rather careful with ammo expenditure at this time even though I have a pretty decent stash of ammo and even more in components to reload.

I even bought the Lee Ap Press which did wonders in speeding up swaging military primer pockets and decapping a bunch of handgun range brass. If you are using Lee decapping dies such as the Universal de-capper, Lee now sells caliber specific decapping pins which makes it a snap to put range ammo back into shape. I bought several Universal decapping dies and put the special sized decapping pins for .357, .22, and .30. Makes depriming a snap along with straightening necks for resizing.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:46 PM (pO7gM)

455 ONT

Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:46 PM (KnJdm)

456 445 441 Thanks, Mr. Weasel.
Posted by: flounder at December 06, 2020 09:43 PM (KnJdm)

Don't do that. Now he's going to start putting on airs and such.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (nakwk)
------
Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:46 PM (MVjcR)

457 Also, Heidi bought some metal spinning targets, so out to the desert next weekend.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'killin ain't hrd. It's not killin thets hrd' at December 06, 2020 09:47 PM (WekKK)

458 The reality of airfields in the islands? The weather. The weather. And in the summer of 1942 the airfield at Dutch Harbor would undulate under aircraft.
Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:39 PM (xtThL)

I landed in a plane in either Dutch Harbor or Cold Bay, I forget. I was sure we were gonna hit the side of the mountain.

Posted by: clutch at December 06, 2020 09:47 PM (9UmRs)

459
Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'killin ain't hrd. It's not killin thets hrd' at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (WekKK)
----
Howdy, bro!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:48 PM (MVjcR)

460 Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (u82oZ

Building the various Manhattan sites was an engineering and logistics marvel.

Posted by: Mr. Meeseeks, Look at me at December 06, 2020 09:48 PM (2DOZq)

461 Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:44 PM (xtThL)
------
Hope you're doing well, AP!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:48 PM (MVjcR)

462 yPosted by: lotsobugs at December 06, 2020 09:22 PM (hCqcJ)

---
i'm an American, asshoe: i don't submit to anyone but G*d.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 06, 2020 09:49 PM (EQMiV)

463 redc1c4,
On the farm, back in the day, we used Vapona which was literally a precursor chemical for nerve gas, to control flies. Nasty stuff with a skull and cross bones on it.

Old Saddam built his CW capability by opening pesticide plants where the products were secretly diverted to his CW program.

Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:49 PM (pO7gM)

464 451
SFGoth

4 years early for the Manhattan project is right out.

It could not have happened earlier. We needed to be at war with
Germany, and fully mobilized. With a feared German Nuke program to
boot. We may have has the weapons sooner, in 1944, but lost time in a
fissile element separation error.

Posted by: NaCly Dog

I'm reimagining Manhattan thankyouverymuch.

And why were we dependent on German scientists to build ballistic missiles when the f*cking Father of Rocketry is Robert Goddard, an American?

Posted by: SFGoth at December 06, 2020 09:49 PM (KAi1n)

465 Posted by: whig at December 06, 2020 09:46 PM (pO7gM)
----
My pleasure, whig!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:50 PM (MVjcR)

466 I am feeling better thanks all.

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 06, 2020 09:51 PM (xtThL)

467 OK. ONT is up. Thanks everyone! Enjoy the rest of your evening and have a great week. Hope to see you next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:51 PM (MVjcR)

468 Thank you Weasel for using my report and for another fantastic thread! Always great to hang out here with y'all and absorb the wisdom of the Horde. I'm heading back up to read the cookie thread!

Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 09:53 PM (k42hV)

469 452 Thanks for the gun thread, Weasel. Will look at laser targeting setups.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 06, 2020 09:45 PM (u82oZ)
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OK Salty! If you decide on one, let us know!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:53 PM (MVjcR)

470 57 Also, Heidi bought some metal spinning targets, so out to the desert next weekend.
Posted by: Cannibal Bob 'killin ain't hrd. It's not killin thets hrd' at December 06, 2020 09:47 PM (WekKK
-------
Lucky!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:55 PM (MVjcR)

471 399 - Anna Puma - Hey there! How are you doing?

McGyver, over

Posted by: McGyver at December 06, 2020 09:55 PM (rJ1YP)

472 Posted by: screaming in digital at December 06, 2020 09:53 PM (k42hV)
-------
Well you're a gun nut now so don't be a stranger!

Posted by: Weasel at December 06, 2020 09:57 PM (MVjcR)

473 384 Crack open an ammo can that has had ammo for any length of time and you smell ammonia. Otherwise. Store it in the storage unit, if it concerns you, or pick up some ammo cans.

Ammonia compounds are produced to a very limited extent by the combustion of smokeless powders, but most of the fragrance in new ammunition cans is oxalic and/or citric acid. Both are deliberate residues from brass detergents used in cartridge case manufacturing. The cardboard boxes used to organize and store factory ammunition are usually made from sulphited pulp and sulphur corrodes brass generally (not season cracking) unless countered by a reducing acid.

Posted by: 10x25mm at December 06, 2020 10:00 PM (JUeDv)

474 Well, G'nite and we'll see ya on the ONT. ThanX! again, Weasel

McGyver, out

Posted by: McGyver at December 06, 2020 10:03 PM (rJ1YP)

475 Now, how they would stand up as a lubricant for repeating firearms that get hot with extended rapid fire I can't say

Posted by: Grey Fox at December 06, 2020 09:00 PM (B1eUX)

"Hey, did one of you guys cook some bacon...?"

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 10:08 PM (t/Qrm)

476 Any idea why a short stretch of I-15 that passes MCAS Miramar here in San Diego is named after the Tuskegee airmen??

Posted by: rhomboid at December 06, 2020 09:24 PM (OTzUX)

Unfortunatey, the same reason every town has a Martin Luther King Blvd.

Posted by: GWB at December 06, 2020 10:23 PM (t/Qrm)

477 come and get us, gut nuts! you lost!!!!!

Posted by: lotsobugs at December 06, 2020 10:49 PM (hCqcJ)

478 though they tore up downtown Chicago again last night.
Posted by: dartist at December 06, 202

I haven't seen anything about that on the news. Go figure.

Posted by: Farmer at December 07, 2020 12:04 AM (uEauf)

479 re: screaming in digital's class overvations:

- Applying the slide lock / racking the slide is more about proper technique than strength; I see a lot of new shooters have problems with this. It will get better with practice. Most common mistake is trying to hold the pistol in place with one hand while attempting to rack the slide with the other; reach over top with the non-firing hand (staying clear of the ejection port, it will bite you), pull your arms/hands in close to the chest for leverage, and apply force with both hands in opposite directions at the same time. Sort of like playing an accordion, or crushing a beer can. It lets you apply as many muscles as possible.

- Shell casings: lots of pistols will eject empties into your forehead if you're not holding the pistol firmly enough. Glocks are notorious for this. They're not a safety issue as long as you have eye protection on and aren't wearing low cut shirts, but they *are* an indication that you are almost causing malfunctions by not gripping firmly enough.

Also, I recommend new shooters try to shoot outside when possible, if weather is permitting (given their comfort level with either weather or shooting). Indoor ranges are louder and the brass bouncing all over the partitions is distracting.

Didn't get out to shoot this week but I did put in hours of vehicle work to get the 4x4 fully operational, and scouted out a new shooting site.

Posted by: there are only three star wars films at December 07, 2020 12:35 AM (EEVQU)

480 No range time this weekend. I am now in bed in the back of my truck and when I step out in the morning I shall be deer hunting.

Posted by: Igotnothing at December 07, 2020 12:56 AM (23FyH)

481 Just why were all the Aircraft Carriers out to sea when it happened my late father was aboard the USS Lexington at the time

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at December 07, 2020 06:16 PM (FLiOE)

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