Mid-Morning Art Thread [Kris]

Kris suggested this work as a subject, and while I was originally hesitant, I realized that it is a fine way of recognizing the solemnity of the day in a very human way.
Please respect the intent of the Art Thread and try to refrain from veering into pure politics and anger.
-- CBD

The Falling Man
Richard Drew

This is one of the great photographs in the history of the medium. Its power is in the simplicity of the work and the context in which it was taken. When I view this work, I am horrified, shamed, and thankful all at once. The scores of people that this work represents deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the heroes of Flight 93. Yet this work was happenstance. The photographer, like many others, just clicked away at a random jumper just to document the events of That Day.

My 9/11 story is unexceptional. I happened to be watching the morning CBS broadcast that morning and watched the whole thing unfold live from my couch 400 miles away. I know no one who died nor anyone who went to help in the days after, but I cannot think about it without crying. What the people on the planes and in the buildings went through, I cannot imagine. May we never see anything like that again.

The photograph is very minimalist, dominated by the gray vertical lines. The lines aren’t totally vertical, however. They have a barely noticeable lean to the right. Because we read left to right in the West, a right-leaning line can invoke action or movement. So this frozen moment in time still has energy. At the vertical center, the tone of the lines lighten. This is simply the edge of one building overlapping the other behind it. Thinner, lighter lines intersect the vertical lines at a shallow angle. These are the construction joints in the steel wall but they act as visual breaks to the eye. The eye wants to zoom up and down those verticals, but the horizontals act as speedbumps to slow it down. To take it all in.

In the center, just above the absolute middle of the work is the Man. His pose is simple. He is upside-down with a vertical axis parallel to the wall. He seems calm, but the inverted pose tells the viewer that something is very seriously not right. Inverting the human figure like this is the ultimate unbalancing act for the viewer. The body’s placement above center opens up the space below him. The space below him is twice as large as the space above him. This give the sense that this is a long fall. Because we can’t see any bottom, because the vertical lines continue uninterrupted off the picture frame, the fall looks endless. He seems to fall forever. Some scholars have said that the clothes the man is wearing look like the uniform of the restaurant workers at the very top of the tower. If true, that’s a fall of 1300 feet—about a 10 second drop. Eternity.

I don’t think the jumpers have been overlooked, but I do think they have been mis-catagorized. I think they are heroes. The people in the buildings were being slowly murdered. Some escaped but those above the impact zones were trapped. Death was certain. Some stole back their lives and chose for themselves how they would die. Some went alone, like Falling Man, others held the hands of the fearful, gave them courage, and jumped together. Two-hundred people refused to be murdered and courageously stepped into the void.

I am horrified that he was put into a situation that demanded that choice and I am ashamed because I think I would be too cowardly to follow his example. I am thankful to him, too, for denying evil another prize.

Posted by: CBD at 09:30 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 CBD -Thank you for posting this very poignant and raw picture. While emotions still are raw on this day for some (most of us here), we as a nation have forgotten the horror, pain and tragedy of this day.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 09:32 AM (N39Ws)

2
Now? Too inflammatory. Censor.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 09:34 AM (7rVsF)

3 Ah the infamous running man photo.

Posted by: Vic at September 11, 2019 09:34 AM (mpXpK)

4 FIRST!!!!!

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (Zz0t1)

5 Today sucks and I hate it.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (Zz0t1)

6 Wow, now this is getting weird. I was thinking of this picture earlier this morning as I spent a few minutes reflecting on the events of this horrendous historic day.

Talk about the Horde HiveMind at work...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (HaL55)

7 .....if you are not angry, you have forgotten, if you have forgotten....shame on you........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (0O7c5)

8 May God comfort his family and all the families that lost loved ones that terrible day. I don't think I can do this thread, though. I'll be back in a while.

Posted by: grammie winger at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (lwiT4)

9 CND,

please delete my comment at #2.

I skimmed the request at the top.

it's not keeping with the requested theme.

Posted by: SturmToddler at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (8D42x)

10 Nothing to add. Best wishes everyone, for a good day. Glad to be an American.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, a low grade social fever at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (LISuA)

11 dusty here in Houston this AM

Posted by: rhennigantx at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (JFO2v)

12 As I recall Fox showed a video one time of the jumpers. It was never seen again.

Posted by: Vic at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (mpXpK)

13 Photography can indeed be art. I will look forward to a thread on Adams, Weston, or Mapplethorpe.

This is photojournalism. Art, I think, requires a creative intent or impulse. This photographer caught a horrific moment in time.

I don't see any way to discuss it as art.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)

14 No trees, but definitely art.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at September 11, 2019 09:37 AM (KUaJL)

15 CBD,

my kingdom for an edit button...

Posted by: SturmToddler at September 11, 2019 09:37 AM (8D42x)

16 When they (Muslims), stand on the street corner and preach publicly that the denounce terrorism, I will consider dialing back my disdain for them. Until then........

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed

Fuck them all. Will never trust them. Sorry.

Their rule book even tells them to lie.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 11, 2019 09:37 AM (0pc8A)

17 9
May God comfort his family and all the families that lost loved ones
that terrible day. I don't think I can do this thread, though. I'll be
back in a while.

Posted by: grammie winger at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (lwiT4)
Grammie - This will be a tough thread. It's a tough day. It must be - forever. Use the pain and sorrow and turn that into prayers for those we lost on this day. For those lost visiting violence back on those who picked this fight.May God have mercy on each and every one of them and that they rest in peace. Amen.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (N39Ws)

18 Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

19 >>As I recall Fox showed a video one time of the jumpers. It was never seen again.

They showed it today. They show it every year on 9/11. Just the one day and then they put it back in the vault.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (ZLI7S)

20 Some people were inadvertently pushed out as others rushed for the windows, trying to escape the heat and flames. Not a criticism at all, it was understandably total panic. In the moment no one is going to realize there's no rescue coming at that window 100 floors up.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (COzlW)

21 Posted by: SturmToddler at September 11, 2019 09:37 AM (8D42x)

No worries...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 09:39 AM (wYseH)

22 When they (Muslims), stand on the street corner and preach publicly that the denounce terrorism, I will consider dialing back my disdain for them. Until then........

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed

Their book tells them to lie to you for the greater good. Anything they say and do that makes you feel better about them is a lie and they will eventually try to kill you.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:39 AM (Zz0t1)

23 I don't see any way to discuss it as art.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)

Well, Kris looked at it from the perspective of art, and certainly on one level it is...

But I do see your point.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (wYseH)

24 Sorry. I won't do this thread. Said what I had to say on JJs and will respect CBDs wishes.

Might be back for Gorilla Pundit.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (Ki5SV)

25 This picture is really heart-wrenching. Anyone with no context who looks at it would know instinctively that something is wrong (Kris makes a nice explanation of this in the text).

I, however, am not without context. This picture encapsulates so much of that terrible event - worth more than a thousand words to be sure. I am not particularly emotional, but dust kicks up around me every time I see it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (e/H31)

26 18 Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

Grim answer, but yes, I think so.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (Wj9tV)

27 This is photojournalism. Art, I think, requires a creative intent or impulse. This photographer caught a horrific moment in time.

I don't see any way to discuss it as art.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)

Maybe, but it manages to be everything that every work of art can only try to be.

Posted by: hogmartin will be sad if you don't register for the fall MIMoMe at September 11, 2019 09:42 AM (t+qrx)

28 I don't see any way to discuss it as art.

Photography is, by its nature, art. Moments frozen in time, much like a painting. It's instantaneous but the intent is to recall some event before the memory of it fades away.
In this case, this definitely qualifies as art, even though it's not pleasant.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:42 AM (HaL55)

29 This photo is so powerful because we know the context. Otherwise it could be taken as almost an abstract open to interpretation. If any young people see this, please let them know why this person and others chose to jump rather than slowly burn to death.

I'll respect CBD's request to temper the hatred I still feel and stop the comment here.

Posted by: JTB at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (bmdz3)

30 Art is meant to instill emotion and feeling. This is art. Quite blatant, if fact.

Posted by: Roy at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (0yxK0)

31 Sept. 11, 2001 9:37 - Attack at the Pentagon. American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon killing 53 passengers and 6 crew. 125 military and civilian personnel were killed on the ground.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (N39Ws)

32
Grim answer, but yes, I think so.
Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (Wj9tV)

I was afraid that was the answer.

I'm hoping God sees it for what it truly was and can make exceptions, should they have been worthy up to that point.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (Zz0t1)

33 Thank you for posting this picture, CBD. I am reminded that our betters did not want to show us such images, and in fact are putting out headlines today about how airplanes perpetrated such evil.

I will honor your request about not taking the post into pure anger, but my God, it's obvious that the Left are worse than the muz they keep protecting.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (fc+t9)

34 Morning.. That day is as fresh in my mind as if it were yesterday.

Never, ever, forget.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (438dO)

35 18 Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?
Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

I guess, technically, in the absolute purest definition of the word, they are suicides. For me, however, suicide also carries a deeper, emotional meaning. A suicide is someone who cannot deal with their life situation anymore and, without thinking of the people they leave behind, end themselves. This wasn't that. These people were ready to live their lives that day but were taken hostage by killers. To me, jumping was a hostage rebellion, similar to United 93.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (OyyDO)

36 Wasn't this man identified? Wasn't he a waiter in the restaurant?

Posted by: BignJames at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (X/Pw5)

37 Sept. 11, 2001 9:42am - FAA grounds all civilian plains in U.S. airspace, prohibiting departures.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (N39Ws)

38 Posted by: SturmToddler at September 11, 2019 09:37 AM (8D42x)

No worries...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 09:39 AM (wYseH)

thanks mate.

and since I have nothing good to say,

may god rest their souls.

and I'm out until the great ape, or after. going to muck around in the news thread.

Posted by: SturmToddler at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (8D42x)

39 Wasn't this man identified? Wasn't he a waiter in the restaurant?
Posted by: BignJames at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (X/Pw5)

Yes, I think he was.

Posted by: hogmartin will be sad if you don't register for the fall MIMoMe at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (t+qrx)

40 I live near the Hudson Riverfront 9/11 memorial in Weehawken. It's a couple of pieces of metal from one of the buildings. Today I'll walk the pooch over there and spend some time.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (COzlW)

41 This photo may not have begun it's life as art. But it wound up being art.
Much like the photo of Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at September 11, 2019 09:45 AM (wtvvX)

42 Sept. 11 2001 9:45am - Evacuations begin at the White House and U.S. Capitol where the House of Representatives and Senate are in session.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 09:45 AM (N39Ws)

43 When I view this work, I am horrified, shamed, and thankful all at once
______________

When I view it, I am enraged.

Still.

And always.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 09:46 AM (k4dH2)

44
I heard the news while in Germany, yet I remember every minute of the next 10 days it took to get home.
God bless those who were lost, and those who lost.
And yes, it still pisses me off!

Posted by: Roland THTG at September 11, 2019 09:46 AM (88+cf)

45 Someone with one of those Twitter thingys should post this and send it to everyone in Washington DC as a reminder. They may be trying to forget this day that will live in infamy forever, but we haven't forgotten.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:46 AM (HaL55)

46 This is photojournalism. Art, I think, requires a creative intent or impulse. This photographer caught a horrific moment in time.

I don't see any way to discuss it as art.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)
++++++++++++
I don't know if intent is a pre-requisite. It certainly helps. No one *accidentally* creates art - it is after all a creative process.

This is akin, I suppose, to a "still life" - macabre as that is in this context. It is a reflection of so much. Yes, it was an industrial as opposed to an explicitly creative output but I am not sure that precludes it as art.

Old bridges, for another example, are functional and industrial output. Yet they have touches - like fleur de lis covering the rivets - that are explicitly artistic yet also essentially industrial.

It's a weird line and I don't know where it is. In this context, on this day, I think this picture qualifies. In others it probably wouldn't. So perhaps it is not art in and of itself - but it may well be when taken in context. Does the contextual requirement also preclude its status as art? I dunno. I am liking the conversation around it, though.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 09:46 AM (e/H31)

47 I live near the Hudson Riverfront 9/11 memorial in Weehawken. It's a couple of pieces of metal from one of the buildings. Today I'll walk the pooch over there and spend some time.
Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (COzlW)

on 9/11 I was in my Office a block up from the river. Walked down and watched. Since the whole town was shut down and since most of patients that day, coincidentially, were cops and emts, I went home and it took me an hour or more just to get out of town with all the road closures

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 09:47 AM (85Gof)

48 This reminds me of the truly awesome story of the people of Newfoundland that took all the people in that were homeless for several days as planes were redirected. They opened their homes, shop owners opened their doors and allowed strangers to help themselves to anything they needed, regardless of personal sacrifice.

THAT reminds you the true nature of humanity.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:47 AM (Zz0t1)

49 My God would never punish the man in the picture, for jumping. That's all I have to say on that matter.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 09:47 AM (90T4r)

50 Photography is, by its nature, art.

I disagree, but at least we're talking about art and what it is. You can look at a photograph, does that make it art? What about the finger painting that Mom puts on the refrigerator?

The vast majority of photographs ever taken are stupid and banal. The face of the victim dead center, maybe something in the background indicates that this was our holiday weekend in Tempe. Pointing and clicking to document that something happened is not art.

Or else, I guess, we're all artists. Who hasn't taken a photograph?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:48 AM (wzVKm)

51 25 This picture is really heart-wrenching. Anyone with no context who looks at it would know instinctively that something is wrong (Kris makes a nice explanation of this in the text).

I, however, am not without context. This picture encapsulates so much of that terrible event - worth more than a thousand words to be sure. I am not particularly emotional, but dust kicks up around me every time I see it.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 09:41 AM (e/H31)

For me, this is THE very icon of 9/11. There are tons of pictures of That Day, but this one incorporates everything. The stillness and brightness of the morning, the uncertainty of what was happening, the terror of realization, and the tragedy of the new reality.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (OyyDO)

52 Thanks CBD. I woke up and looked at the date and didn't want to remember. I needed this. That is all. God bless you all.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (Zv1X1)

53 This photo breaks my heart.

Posted by: shibumi, in house selling hell at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (l/6vt)

54
Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?
Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

"Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide... We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."

Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 2282-2283

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (7rVsF)

55 Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a
biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to
prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have
committed suicide?

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

Just as homicide requires pre-meditated intent from a legal standpoint, so, I believe, should suicide.

This guy didn't wake up that day intending to kill himself. He did it to avoid dying in a much worse fashion, and thus exert some final control over his forced exit from this life.

So, no, not suicide.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (wtvvX)

56 My God would never punish the man in the picture, for jumping. That's all I have to say on that matter.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 09:47 AM (90T4r)

Agreed....he's lived his hell.

Posted by: BignJames at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (X/Pw5)

57 I think you are right about heroism - when death is inevitable, choosing to face it with dignity is heroic.

They are the true martyrs of this day 18 years ago - put to death by the enemies of freedom.

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (+72t1)

58 For the "America Deserved It" crowd - did this man deserve this fate?

Posted by: ErikInTexas at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (mIJ9W)

59 I've used this as an example many times, especially in group settings where people struggle with the concept of personal choice.

Some people create their own misery, by denying themselves the insight that we always have choices. We often don't like the options... but the options remain.

I do see how it is possible view the jumpers as heroes. I can't imagine being in that situation, and I don't trust that I would make the "right" choice in such a situation. But they were faced with a reality they did not create, and they acted.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (cY3LT)

60 To me, jumping was a hostage rebellion, similar to United 93.

God knew they were mere moments away from death, as He knew the exact time and manner of it, and had always known.

Hard to describe that as suicide, IMHO. Not sure what I'd do differently, except maybe have a good stiff shot of booze first.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:50 AM (HaL55)

61
"those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?"
No I know it is not.
When the choice between life and death has been taken from you, the manner of your death is irrelevant. No one could expect the doomed to stand still and be engulfed in flames or ground to bits if the alternative presented itself. It would be the act of a sadist to demand it. Our Lord is no such. It is men who would demand that in the name of the Lord who would stand guilty of an evil for it.

Posted by: Put that kid back where it came from or so help me at September 11, 2019 09:50 AM (HPNqc)

62 I was afraid that was the answer.

I'm hoping God sees it for what it truly was and can make exceptions, should they have been worthy up to that point.
Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:43 AM (Zz0t1)

Can't speak for what other Christians believe, but at least from a Catholic perspective for something to be a mortal sin, it requires grave matter, taken with full knowledge and awareness of the gravity of the action committed with deliberate and complete consent.

The grave matter criteria is clearly present, but I personally doubt that the third criteria is specifically present in these circumstances. Having to make a snap decision to jump or stay in a burning building to me doesn't seem like something you could make a deliberate and complete decision for.

I hope and pray that they were able to reconcile with God on the way down. Any judgement is way above my pay grade.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at September 11, 2019 09:50 AM (KUaJL)

63 It takes a desperate courage to make that jump, even when the alternatives are obviously worse. I don't know that I would have the same spirit. What I do know is that I would much rather be in a battle that I am hugely under-equipped for, than have to choose only the manner of self termination.

That is a different kind of battle, though. Probably closer to the one many of us have to fight. Calm acceptance, dignity in death- those things are not worthless.

Posted by: trev006 at September 11, 2019 09:50 AM (2oB3D)

64 "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide... We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."

Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs 2282-2283
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (7rVsF)

Thank you for that.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:51 AM (Zz0t1)

65 God bless this man and the many like him that day. I think often of the good people who die because they are put in unnatural circumstances by people who are their lessers -- whether terrorists or political madmen or the lunatic on the corner. How does the human mind make a rational decision when there are no rational answers?

My mind often goes to the one image I have not seen since 2001. One man in a shirt and tie and slacks is hanging out one of the doomed floor windows, attempting to use the outside cladding of the building to carefully slide his way down to safety. You can tell all too quickly that it's going to be a very difficult task. And then he loses his grip.

All you're left with is the thought that, with what was going on inside the building, this was his better alternative.

Posted by: red speck at September 11, 2019 09:51 AM (nrC0n)

66 Thanks for the reminder on this solemn day.

Posted by: Caliban at September 11, 2019 09:51 AM (qEujL)

67 Jesus. Thread's barely up and people are already shitting on it.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 11, 2019 09:51 AM (xWqXn)

68 41 This photo may not have begun it's life as art. But it wound up being art.
Much like the photo of Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at September 11, 2019 09:45 AM (wtvvX)

That picture has a Baroque feel to it. Dramatic, high contrast, very energetic.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 09:52 AM (OyyDO)

69 A man did a thing.

Posted by: Ilhan Omar at September 11, 2019 09:52 AM (H5knJ)

70 Sept. 11, 2001 9:42am - FAA grounds all civilian plains in U.S. airspace, prohibiting departures.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed

Except for the Royal Family of the Kingdom of Saud.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 11, 2019 09:52 AM (0pc8A)

71 I think you are right about heroism - when death is inevitable, choosing to face it with dignity is heroic.

They are the true martyrs of this day 18 years ago - put to death by the enemies of freedom.
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (+72t1)

There's a still photo somewhere, taken by an occupant of the building, as he or she was descending... of the firefighters, ascending. One of the firefighters is looking right at the camera, with grim determination.

My assumption is, he did not survive that day.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 09:53 AM (cY3LT)

72 @16 rickb223-I feel the same way. I have a mosque a half a mile down the street. When I drive by I can't help but to see a building full of evil. Men with dirty beards and women in them ridiculous outfits.

Posted by: JROD at September 11, 2019 09:53 AM (Lta8P)

73 When I see that photo, of course I recognize the reality of the man who is the focus. But for me, it also has always been a metaphor for my hopes and dreams of the future. That's where they went, on that day, and they've never come back.

on the other hand, once you've given up all hope for the future, given it up completely, then you have a remarkable freedom to act, and also a freedom from being bothered very much by anything else that happens along the way.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 09:53 AM (Kpl3J)

74 on the "is it suicide" question - I don't think so because the jumpers were instinctively choosing a few more seconds of air to breathe over being suffocated and burned that instant

they did not want to die, therefore it was NOT suicide

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:53 AM (+72t1)

75 September 11 keeps coming up in the history of the Long War between the West and islam:

9/11/1565 - the Ottomans are beaten back from their attempt to invade the island of Malta

9/11/1683 - the Ottomans are beaten back from the gates of Vienna

9/11/1697 - the Ottomans are routed at the Battle of Zenta, losing tens of thousands of soldiers and ending Turkish rule in Europe north of the Balkans

9/11/1877 - Russians & Romanians failed to dislodge the Ottomans from Plevna in a direct assault, but then laid siege to the Ottoman army, eventually driving them out of nearly all of Europe

9/11/2001 & 9/11/2011 we all know well what happened then.

Runner up - Between 9/9 & 9/13/1922, the Turkish army enters and sets fire to the city of Smyrna, Greece (now part of Turkey), killing up to 100,000 Christians in the fires and massacres

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (7HtZB)

76 Not sure why this question just popped into my head, but from a biblical standpoint, are those that flung themselves to their deaths to prevent themselves from being crushed or burned alive considered to have committed suicide?

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:38 AM (Zz0t1)

Grim answer, but yes, I think so.
Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019

No. Suicide in the Christian sense requires free will. There is NO free will engaged in this circumstance. God only judges you for choices you make with your free will, not for those coerced by circumstances out of your control. Miscarriages aren't abortions, car accidents aren't self-maiming, etc.

Posted by: dagny at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (nRWPy)

77 Please remember to be kind to each other today.

I can't even look at that photo above. I guess I'm a coward. Can't do it.

Posted by: Nurse ratched at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (PkVlr)

78 It's committing suicide to keep from being killed. They were going to die, either way, either then or fifteen minutes from then. I assume they had latched onto that fact.

I view the prohibition on suicide as being addressed to the desperate and lonely and or selfish. A soldier who jumps onto a grenade isn't a suicide, even though he's directly taking actions that will result in his death.

There was absolutely no way out for the people in those buildings. They chose to take matters into their own hands instead of sitting around waiting to burn to death. And if God doesn't grok that, well, frankly, fuck him.

Posted by: Vanya at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (IUT0Y)

79 This photo may not have begun it's life as art. But it wound up being art.
Much like the photo of Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby.

Posted by: Tex Lovera

It's more like...I don't know, a holy relic? Something not intended to be such, but become such due to the circumstances associated with it. Not sure I even have the right idea or concept.

I think I'll join the others taking a powder this thread.

Posted by: Brother Cavil is bored, why do you ask? at September 11, 2019 09:55 AM (AM1GF)

80 Several men were idenitified as possibly being Falling Man. A pastry chef or an audio technician, both from Windows on the World, were the two most likely candidates I think.

Over 200 people jumped to their deaths.

Posted by: JuJuBee, just generally being shamey at September 11, 2019 09:55 AM (COzlW)

81 I'll never forget where I was, watching this unfold on CNN. And Lord forgive me but my heart is still full of vengeance and anger.

Posted by: IC at September 11, 2019 09:55 AM (NbVTj)

82 Except for the Royal Family of the Kingdom of Saud.
____________

And IIRC certain members of the bin Laden family, who were also given safe passage from the U.S.

Because our government had its priorities. And it sure as shit wasn't us.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 09:55 AM (k4dH2)

83 Just realized I am flying tomorrow. Well glad it is tomorrow and not today

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (85Gof)

84
I can't even look at that photo above. I guess I'm a coward. Can't do it.
Posted by: Nurse ratched at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (PkVlr)

Negative Rampart.

Bravery has nothing to do with not being able to view the horrific.

You're human.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (Zz0t1)

85 May all those that jumped be with God in heaven.

Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (wiXsO)

86 I saw on video of a man who exited an upper window and tried to crawl, mountaineer like, down the outside of the building. He got about three feet before he fell. Got to give him credit. He didn't go down without a fight.

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (fad0M)

87 Good job, Hadrian. I even have the catechism. Open since I'm teaching RCIA tonight and didn't quote it.

But as in all things, free will is the key.

Posted by: dagny at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (nRWPy)

88 I asked in the Morning Report, but what are some of the best books out there on 9/11?

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (7HtZB)

89 Trump is speaking......

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (Zz0t1)

90 Just as homicide requires pre-meditated intent from a legal standpoint, so, I believe, should suicide.

This guy didn't wake up that day intending to kill himself. He did it to avoid dying in a much worse fashion, and thus exert some final control over his forced exit from this life.

So, no, not suicide.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (wtvvX)

Yes. They knew they were going to die, so instead of allowing someone else to kill them like passive sheep, they stole back that power and ended it their way.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (OyyDO)

91 Or else, I guess, we're all artists. Who hasn't taken a photograph?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:48 AM (wzVKm)

"Art" is defined not by the objective nature of the presentation, but by the subjective impact it has on the observer.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (Kpl3J)

92 The vast majority of photographs ever taken are stupid and banal.

I certainly can't argue with that. I have shoeboxes full of banal pix. But they mean something to me.

Sometimes, a picture doesn't become art until later. This image in particular qualifies as "uncomfortable art" because of its realism. Horrendous for sure, thought-provoking and capable of arousing deep emotion. This pic is all of that and more.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (HaL55)

93
Thanks CBD. I woke up and looked at the date and didn't want to remember. I needed this. That is all. God bless you all.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 11, 2019 09:49 AM (Zv1X1)

This was Kris' idea, and as I mentioned I was hesitant, but I think it was a fine choice in light of her analysis.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 09:57 AM (wYseH)

94 it's remarkable that the photo shows the Man almost exactly at the line between the shadowed and lighted halves of the wall

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:58 AM (+72t1)

95 May God bless America and all the victims from that day. CARTHAGO DELENDA EST - DEUS VULT! Amen.

Posted by: lwc at September 11, 2019 09:58 AM (G8lfi)

96 As has been said already, this photo became art even if it was intended as a simple recording. I've used cameras for both photojournalism (it doesn't have to a catastrophe) and carefully staged 'art' images. That the first may depend more on context for its effectiveness doesn't make it less art.

Posted by: JTB at September 11, 2019 09:58 AM (bmdz3)

97 Bing has an upward (skyward?) photo of the tower off remembrance. Compelling. Interestingly enough I believe its more so after seeing this photo.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at September 11, 2019 09:59 AM (Zv1X1)

98 With the first report of a plane hitting the first tower, I imagined a small Cessna-type, and wondered how the pilot could not have seen it. Then more detailed reports came in of an airliner.
I just couldn't take it in.

Posted by: FrodoB, learning to reload at September 11, 2019 09:59 AM (i5RAz)

99 May all those that jumped be with God in heaven.
Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (wiXsO)

Yes.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 11, 2019 09:59 AM (ZYB2s)

100 No. Suicide in the Christian sense requires free will. There is NO free will engaged in this circumstance. God only judges you for choices you make with your free will, not for those coerced by circumstances out of your control. Miscarriages aren't abortions, car accidents aren't self-maiming, etc.

Posted by: dagny at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (nRWPy)

Not a mortal sin I think would clearly by the case, but from traditional understanding I think it would still be a suicide. Circumstances do not typically alter what an action constitutes. But that's its own controversial debate in Catholic theology.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 09:59 AM (Wj9tV)

101 In the aftermath of 9/11, the Media suppression of the documentation of the outrageous act infuriates me. My anger about their behavior is.. extreme.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:00 AM (90T4r)

102
Of course, Salon later had a column questioning whether these people were worth mourning.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 10:00 AM (7rVsF)

103 May all those that jumped be with God in heaven.

Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (wiXsO)

I have no idea what the stance of the Catholic Church is, or even whether they have one. But I refuse to believe that God (Catholic or Jewish or anyone's) would not embrace these people.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:01 AM (wYseH)

104 94 it's remarkable that the photo shows the Man almost exactly at the line between the shadowed and lighted halves of the wall
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:58 AM (+72t1)

Yes, and he isn't centered, he's only about 1/3 of the way from the top, reminding us that he has so much further to fall, still.

Maybe it was an incredible accident, but this picture is a masterpiece of composition, one the renaissance masters would have been proud of.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 10:01 AM (Kpl3J)

105 People with terminal illnesses know they are goners too and when they commit suicide they also are doing it to avoid a fate they consider worse. We don't hesitate to call it suicide when they do it. I think it's suicide, plain and simple. What I think the comments get right is that the circumstances of suicide matter in terms of assessing its morality.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at September 11, 2019 10:01 AM (H5knJ)

106 With the first report of a plane hitting the first tower, I imagined a small Cessna-type, and wondered how the pilot could not have seen it. Then more detailed reports came in of an airliner.
I just couldn't take it in.
Posted by: FrodoB, learning to reload at September 11, 2019 09:59 AM (i5RAz)

I saw the picture of entrance hole on TV almost imeediately and knew it was a major airliner

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (85Gof)

107 Wasn't this man identified? Wasn't he a waiter in the restaurant?
Posted by: BignJames at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (X/Pw5)

Yes, I think he was.
Posted by: hogmartin will be sad if you don't register for the fall MIMoMe at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (t+qrx)

Last article I saw, probably last year, said he was still unidentified.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (cY3LT)

108 6 Wow, now this is getting weird. I was thinking of this picture earlier this morning as I spent a few minutes reflecting on the events of this horrendous historic day.

Talk about the Horde HiveMind at work...
Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 09:35 AM (HaL55)

I was as well. Just thinking about this man and this photo while driving to work.

Posted by: Jordan61 at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (Ez6QX)

109

Never forget the horror of that day

Never forget the victims of that day

Never forget the evil of that day

Never forget the bravery of that day

Never forget the heroes of that day

And for one brief shining moment it looked like the country would be united

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (kw5n8)

110
The Senior Warden of our church and his wife lost their only son when the first Tower was hit. He was trapped on a floor above the strike location. He actually had time and cell phone service access to call his mother to let her know that he was okay and that "help was on the way".

It wasn't for him, anyway, and he perished when the building collapsed. Our congregation was called to participate in an impromptu memorial service for Richard this very evening eighteen years ago. It was heartbreaking to all to hear his story, told by his anguished mother.

Richard's formal memorial service occurred one month later. Many teammates of his from the Cornell ice hockey team were there and testified to the joy he found in life and competing in the athletic arena.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (pNxlR)

111 Last article I saw, probably last year, said he was still unidentified.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (cY3LT)

I am sure they know but for the sensativities of the Family they are probably not saying

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (85Gof)

112 102
Of course, Salon later had a column questioning whether these people were worth mourning.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 10:00 AM (7rVsF)

When Salon dies, and it will, I know that I won't be mourning.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 10:04 AM (Kpl3J)

113 86 I saw on video of a man who exited an upper window and tried to crawl, mountaineer like, down the outside of the building. He got about three feet before he fell.
_____________

I watched a bunch of the 9/11 amateur YouTube videos on the 5th anniversary. Most of them have probably since been removed, but they were awful. I remember one that showed a bunch of people in what looked like some sort of business offices. They were pressed up against the windows, many had stripped down to their underwear because of the heat, some were hanging their heads out of broken spots in the windows, trying to breathe in some smoke-free air, some were holding up handmade signs, begging for help. You could see and feel their desperation. And who knows how long they suffered before the building caved in on them, or they died from smoke inhalation, or jumped to escape the heat and flames.

But hey, we shouldn't think about them or talk about them because that might hurt some muslims' feeeelz. And that's what's really important in this country -- that we make muslims feel good. Because if we import enough of them here, and let them live off of us, and give them special rights and privileges, and let them run things, and kowtow to their every demand, then maybe they won't keep trying to kill us!

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 10:05 AM (k4dH2)

114 I've alway thought that one of the main reasons why he and so many others jumped was in the hope of providing their families with physical remains so they could have at least some feeling of closure.

An act of love, in a way.

Posted by: Surfperch at September 11, 2019 10:05 AM (tVQUs)

115 Fox Business carrying Trump's 9/11 speech

CNBC: What's a 9/11?

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:06 AM (FiUMj)

116 the way the Man has his arms by his side, I think / imagine his eyes are closed
perhaps he is praying, perhaps he is thinking of his family, or maybe his mind is just free and at peace at that moment

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:06 AM (+72t1)

117
94 it's remarkable that the photo shows the Man almost exactly at the line between the shadowed and lighted halves of the wall
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:58 AM (+72t1)

I bad not recognized that both towers are in this photo until reading this thread today.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (pNxlR)

118 "Two-hundred people refused to be murdered and courageously stepped into the void."

Out of all the horror of that day, jumping out of the building was the act that upset me so much I couldn't stand to think of it for more than a second or two. I've always thought it was an act of desperation. CBD, thank you so much for giving me a different way of looking at it.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (7tgQU)

119 Wasn't this man identified? Wasn't he a waiter in the restaurant?
Posted by: BignJames at September 11, 2019 09:44 AM (X/Pw5)

They determined he was a waiter, but couldn't identify him beyond that.

Posted by: Surfperch at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (tVQUs)

120 So, what are you saying? All Muslims are Demonicrats or all Demonicrats are Muslims?
Posted by: Anonymous White Male at September 11, 2019 10:06 AM (VJZgq)

As my mom used to day, if the foo shits.

Posted by: Sponge at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (Zz0t1)

121 Never forget the horror of that day

Never forget the victims of that day

Never forget the evil of that day

Never forget the bravery of that day

Never forget the heroes of that day

And for one brief shining moment it looked like the country would be united
Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (kw5n

+++++++++++++
Beyond even the country. That day also showed us who our allies are. Canada stood up to help in every way they could. When the FAA grounded flights, for example, there were a lot of aircraft inbound full of people. They had to go somewhere. Canada terminated most of the schedules to make room for all of the US-bound air traffic and handle all of those people while they couldn't get in, moving heav and earth to ensure that all of the details were handled the pending problems while we were focused on the immediate ones. They shared administrative burden with us during and after that day. They sent people to help us. They joined us in our war that followed.

Much of the world united around us that day. Many did not stay in that union for long, once the immediate horror waned. Some stayed united with us since. They also deserve recognition and gratitude.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (e/H31)

122 1. Suicide to avoid a more horrible death shouldn't be considered a sin; I don't know the Catholic position on this but many Protestant theologians accept this.

2. 9/11 changed my world and my outlook but it didn't change the world at large. After a hiatus the enemies of the Republic, internal and external, went back to their machinations. I thought that would change but I was naive.

3. I've tried to numb myself to what I feel when I reflect on that day but I can't. I've buried the feelings but this day makes them evergreen, and some of those feelings, aside from the grief and the compassion for the dead, are deeply unpleasant.

4. God rest those who died, aside from the terrorists now being tormented in hell for eternity.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (RD7QR)

123
They determined he was a waiter, but couldn't identify him beyond that.

Posted by: Surfperch

A little Eichmann, according to the American Left.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (7rVsF)

124 on the "is it suicide" question - I don't think so because the jumpers were instinctively choosing a few more seconds of air to breathe over being suffocated and burned that instant

they did not want to die, therefore it was NOT suicide
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 09:53 AM (+72t1)

People have to wrap their heads around it, I guess, but it's an odd mix of morality, law, and semantics at work here, on the question of whether this is suicide or not.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (cY3LT)

125 And for one brief shining moment it looked like the country would be united
Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (kw5n

I still remember the news media immediately, as in that very afternoon, starting the drum beat of division. Where is the president, why is he hiding and not leading? If I had been on AF1 that day I would have shown Ann Compton the door at 40,000 feet.

Posted by: moon_over_vermont at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (kUmUV)

126 Fox Business carrying Trump's 9/11 speech

CNBC: What's a 9/11?
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:06 AM (FiUMj)

Bloomberg "news" has it on a split screen with the New York remembrance ceremony. Shocking that those commies are carrying it

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 11, 2019 10:08 AM (kw5n8)

127 88.josephistan
Fall and Rise: The Story of 9/11 by Michael Zuckoff was one of the books recommended on F&F this morning.

Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (wiXsO)

128 CBD, thank you so much for giving me a different way of looking at it.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (7tgQU)

Please thank Kris. her perspective is new to me, and both interesting and welcome!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (wYseH)

129 A couple of Tom Petty songs came into my mind, after viewing the picture. And no, it's not disrespect for me.... just the way my mind works.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (90T4r)

130 Not a mortal sin I think would clearly by the case, but from traditional understanding I think it would still be a suicide. Circumstances do not typically alter what an action constitutes. But that's its own controversial debate in Catholic theology.

Sorry, but no. If you're being shot at, run, and fall off a cliff that's not suicide in any sense. Your free will has to be engaged in a legal or a theological sense, or even to reason. Being raped isnt fornication either. Even sacraments can't be received outside your free will including extreme unction at death, your prior acceptance is assumed or it's invalid.

God created man for only one reason and that was to share in his love. Love is only and eternally an act of the free will by both God and man. That's why pain and suffering exist, because only under free will can we love. And free will allows choices away from the Good, away from the rational, which is what constitutes evil.

Posted by: dagny at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (nRWPy)

131 111 Last article I saw, probably last year, said he was still unidentified.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (cY3LT)

I am sure they know but for the sensativities of the Family they are probably not saying
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (85Gof)

The documentary "Falling Man" thought they had identified him, but the family rejected the ID because they were a Hispanic Catholic family and refused to believe their son "committed suicide". It was sad. I don't know if anything has changed since I watched it years ago.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (OyyDO)

132 CNBC has my foreignness for all sins by having Morgan Brennan and her boobs on TV every morning.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (FiUMj)

133 Sept. 11, 2001 9:59am -- South Tower collapses in 10 seconds. 800 civilians and first responders inside the building are killed.
May God give them eternal rest.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:11 AM (N39Ws)

134 130 A couple of Tom Petty songs came into my mind, after viewing the picture. And no, it's not disrespect for me.... just the way my mind works.
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (90T4r)

yeah I know one of them, but I'm not gonna say it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 10:11 AM (Kpl3J)

135 I traveled into Manhattan from the Berkshires a few days after 9-11 , to pick up some antiques. You could still see the smoke coming from the site. And everyone was so nice to each other, letting people cut in and stuff, with little flags o their cars. THAT didn't last too long, lol

And a few weeks later, I did a show in Houston. I was amazed at the indifference of many people, stating that it was too far away. They didn't want to hear bout it.

Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 10:11 AM (AQBtr)

136 Our entire Elite Political Class is pro-choice. They worked to leave him the choice of jumping or burning.

And then chanted 'Islam means Peace'. Let me know when KSM goes on trial.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at September 11, 2019 10:11 AM (Ndje9)

137 To replace my anger I try to think of all the heroic deeds done that day. There are hundreds of stories that show why America is exceptional.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:12 AM (KEA7I)

138 Sept. 11, 2001 10:03am -- Flight 93 crashes in a field near Shanksville, PA. after passengers and crew stormed the cockpit. 33 passengers and seven crew are killed. The crash site is about 20 minutes flight time from Washington, DC.If you ever get a chance, see this memorial.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:12 AM (N39Ws)

139 Last article I saw, probably last year, said he was still unidentified.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:02 AM (cY3LT)

I am sure they know but for the sensativities of the Family they are probably not saying
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 10:03 AM (85Gof)

Yeah, it struck me as strange they had not yet identified him, but... as you say, they probably have. For those who need to know, and I know for certain I'm not one of the people who need to know.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:12 AM (cY3LT)

140 " 1. Suicide to avoid a more horrible death shouldn't be considered a sin; I don't know the Catholic position on this but many Protestant theologians accept this."

The Catholic view of suicide has to be juxtaposed with the Catholic view of martyrdom to be understood.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 10:13 AM (Wj9tV)

141 Media suppression and perversion of 9/11 is shameful.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:13 AM (90T4r)

142 Sept. 11, 2001 10:15am - Collapse of the Pentagon E Ring - the west facing outer ring.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:13 AM (N39Ws)

143 Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 10:11 AM (AQBtr)

That's not the reaction I experienced in Houston even in the slightest.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:13 AM (KEA7I)

144 remember the news media immediately, as in that very afternoon, starting the drum beat of division.

I too remember the fake solemnity of certain parts of the media. you could tell they were fake because they wouldn't say anything about who actually did it.

Posted by: Boulder t'hobo at September 11, 2019 10:13 AM (R7O6Q)

145 I thought he was identified as a busboy at the restaurant.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:14 AM (FiUMj)

146 127 88.josephistan
Fall and Rise: The Story of 9/11 by Michael Zuckoff was one of the books recommended on F&F this morning.
Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (wiXsO)

Thanks for that.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:14 AM (7HtZB)

147 @113 TrivialPursuer-The video and pics that have been shown on TV are bad enough, like you I viewed a lot of the amateur video on Youtube and that stuff was jarring. The video in the lobby playing that Beattles song with the sound of bodies hitting the ground inparticular. People that haven't seen those videos are lucky.

Posted by: JROD at September 11, 2019 10:14 AM (Lta8P)

148 Sure. If you run and fall off a cliff, it's not suicide. If you deliberately jump and you know death is certain because of the fall, that's suicide.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at September 11, 2019 10:15 AM (H5knJ)

149 116 the way the Man has his arms by his side, I think / imagine his eyes are closed
perhaps he is praying, perhaps he is thinking of his family, or maybe his mind is just free and at peace at that moment

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:06 AM (+72t1)

Richard Drew was just snapping away as the man fell. If you look at the other images on the roll, he is tumbling through space. The editor who picked this specific image for publishing had a fantastic eye. The original image had a larger space below the jumper. It's almost 3x the size of the space above. This cropped image was the only one CBD and I could find. It still works, but the original is superior still.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:15 AM (OyyDO)

150 I think to myself that is such a beautiful picture but then I can't allow myself to enjoy it as such. It's ugly and beautiful and I can't ever really look at it for more than a couple of seconds.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:16 AM (FiUMj)

151 " Islam is a Religion of Peace"....I remember a guy sitting in front of a camera , lecturing us....

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:16 AM (90T4r)

152 I can't even put into words how I feel. Seeing this picture is so emblematic of that day. It was my 39th birthday and by noon changed my entire worldview. God bless all that perished and their families.

Posted by: westminsterdogshow at September 11, 2019 10:16 AM (/UQ/R)

153 Thank you for this, CBD.

Posted by: NAB at September 11, 2019 10:16 AM (oeNAW)

154 The documentary "Falling Man" thought they had identified him, but the family rejected the ID because they were a Hispanic Catholic family and refused to believe their son "committed suicide". It was sad. I don't know if anything has changed since I watched it years ago.
Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (OyyDO)

Oh wow, how heartbreaking for them. To "know" the truth, and to deny it, because of a mistaken belief.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (cY3LT)

155
Who celebrated 9/11? Palestinians. And the European Left. Two species of scum.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (7rVsF)

156 Never forget. Ever.

Posted by: RobM1981 at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (nq1fY)

157 Re: art

What I always think is how badly it hurts when I burn my finger or brush my firearm against a hot engine component. That man, and others, decided that falling was the better choice than staying.

Thousands of people had the decision made for them.

Posted by: Moron Robbie is a Proud Black Woman - my word as a Biden at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (fsa/N)

158 118
"Two-hundred people refused to be murdered and courageously stepped into the void."

Out of all the horror of that day, jumping out of the building was
the act that upset me so much I couldn't stand to think of it for more
than a second or two. I've always thought it was an act of desperation.
CBD, thank you so much for giving me a different way of looking at it.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:07 AM (7tgQU)
I worked with an auditor a few years ago, post 9/11. She was in NYC on 9/11 and very close to the WTC. She personally witnessed people jumping from the buildings. What haunts me to this day about that conversation with her, besides the shocking details, was how her face changed as she described the day. She went very stoic, and distant. I can't even imagine the nightmares she endures from witnessing what she did. I hope she has found peace.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (N39Ws)

159 155
Who celebrated 9/11? Palestinians. And the European Left. Two species of scum.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (7rVsF)

___

Don't forget us!!
- 30% of Americans

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (FiUMj)

160 I guess I didn't know that 200 people jumped that day - adds to my continued seething anger about some people doing something. Will visit the Memorial next week to remember.

Posted by: rammajamma at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (PQRcz)

161
Sorry, but no. If you're being shot at, run, and fall off a cliff that's not suicide in any sense. Your free will has to be engaged in a legal or a theological sense, or even to reason. Being raped isnt fornication either. Even sacraments can't be received outside your free will including extreme unction at death, your prior acceptance is assumed or it's invalid.

God created man for only one reason and that was to share in his love. Love is only and eternally an act of the free will by both God and man. That's why pain and suffering exist, because only under free will can we love. And free will allows choices away from the Good, away from the rational, which is what constitutes evil.

Posted by: dagny at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (nRWPy)

An accidental death is quite different from jumping off a building. The typical loophole employed has been to kill each other, there hasn't historically been a "dire straits imposed by an enemy" exception.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 10:18 AM (Wj9tV)

162 A couple of Tom Petty songs came into my mind, after viewing the picture. And no, it's not disrespect for me.... just the way my mind works.
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (90T4r)

18 years ago, the AM radio station on the way in to work was running the audio and when I got in, everyone was downstairs in the break room watching TV. I got there just in time to see the second plane hit. I laughed. It wasn't because I thought it was funny. I just couldn't think of anything else to do at the time.

Posted by: hogmartin will be sad if you don't register for the fall MIMoMe at September 11, 2019 10:19 AM (t+qrx)

163 No, it is not suicide. They were taking the only escape route left open to them.

There was a case of a judo player who was skydiving and had his chute completely fail to open, he broke both legs but survived because he knew how to do a rolling break fall to absorb and spread out the energy of the fall.

Posted by: An Observation at September 11, 2019 10:19 AM (B0W3Y)

164 "This is photojournalism. Art, I think, requires a creative intent or
impulse. This photographer caught a horrific moment in time.
I don't see any way to discuss it as art."
Bandersnatch, with all due respect, I disagree. The picture wasn't composed, of course - God forbid that it should have been! But it was the creation of a human eye and hand, and, more importantly, its power and its beauty - how it displays the courage of the man and the finality that each of us will face some day - were recognized.

Consider similar example: the photograph of the raising of the flag on Mount Suribachi. It too was an accident. This was a second flag raising, and was done for the press, done by five Marines and a Navy corpsman who happened to be there at the time. The photo itself was one of a set shot at the time, and its quality was only recognized by a photo editor after the fact. That the image's composition rivals the best of Leonardo and Michelangelo is entirely an accident. Yet, nobody denies that it is art.

Likewise, IMHO, the Falling Man is art. It may be art that was largely accidental, but it is art nonetheless.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 11, 2019 10:20 AM (S6ArX)

165 @thehill

JUST IN: Hong Kong activists pause protests in remembrance of 9/11 http://hill.cm/vDH2uG6

https://tinyurl.com/y3jxgf2e

Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 10:20 AM (cF8AT)

166 Don't forget us!!
- 30% of Americans
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (FiUMj)
+++++++++++++++
I doubt it was anything like that high, especially not back then before the world went completely insane. Some probably did, and a lot more attempted to rationalize what happened as being some kind of legitimate response - but I think damn few celebrated it.

Nor, I think, did most of our European associates. I don't think they cared all that much, and a lot of them probably thought we had it coming, but seeing their protector punched in the nose was not a cause for celebration even for the demonic leftists among them.

Nowadays it would be a different story, but the number of Westerners who viewed it as a cause for celebration was probably very small.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 10:20 AM (e/H31)

167 CNBC has my foreignness for all sins by having Morgan Brennan and her boobs on TV every morning.
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:10 AM (FiUMj)

Yes, the only reason to watch that station

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 11, 2019 10:20 AM (kw5n8)

168 156 Never forget. Ever.
Posted by: RobM1981 at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (nq1fY)

And never forgive until the menace surrender unconditionally.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:20 AM (U7k5w)

169 This picture never fails to bring tears to my eyes. Not just for the single man immortalized in the photo, but for the hundreds of others who similarly met their end, and the thousands more who died that day and in the days following.

Never, ever, ever forget.

Posted by: MWR, The Public Intellectual (aka Beth) at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (rP4OC)

170 Thank you for this, CBD.

Posted by: NAB at September 11, 2019 10:16 AM (oeNAW)

Kris is the one who should be thanked. It was her idea and her very interesting analysis.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (wYseH)

171 Sept. 11, 2001 10:28am -- Collapse of the North Tower. It had been burning for 102 minutes. More than 1,600 people are killed as a result of the attack on the North Tower.Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them. May they rest in peace. May their soul, and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.(work is getting in the way, so I won't be able to add much more of these moments. Apologies, but I do have to eat.)

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (N39Ws)

172 I lived in NYC for 3 years and moved away not long before 9/11. I worked on Broadway, within walking distance of WTC. I didn't know anyone who died that day, but I heard a lot of stories from people who were there and got out. As well as people who while not directly affected, were in a state of panic for hours not knowing what would happen next. Also someone who was in NYC on business and couldn't get out, since all flights were cancelled. There were thousands of people in that situation.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (FiUMj)

173 Back in 2001 I had a bus tripped planned to take my mom to New York for her birthday, which is on the 22nd. 9/11 happened, but we still went on the 22nd, and whatever plans we had made way back when to celebrate her birthday were put on hold to make a pilgrimage to Ground Zero. We saw the twisted wreckage of the facade of the towers, but what has stuck with me since was the smell of Ground Zero.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (7HtZB)

174 couple of Tom Petty songs came into my mind, after viewing the picture. And no, it's not disrespect for me.... just the way my mind works.
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (90T4r)

My mind went immediately to ways to prepare for that scenario if I ever work in the top floors of a sky scraper. That's how my mind works.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:22 AM (KEA7I)

175 165 Like the picture last week - a hope that we will again be the country the Hong Kong protesters believe we are.

Posted by: rammajamma at September 11, 2019 10:22 AM (PQRcz)

176 Please thank Kris. her perspective is new to me, and both interesting and welcome!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:09 AM (wYseH)

Kris, thank you so much for this. Your descriptions are always so insightful, but today you helped me heal a little.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:23 AM (7tgQU)

177 163 No, it is not suicide. They were taking the only escape route left open to them.

There was a case of a judo player who was skydiving and had his chute completely fail to open, he broke both legs but survived because he knew how to do a rolling break fall to absorb and spread out the energy of the fall.

Posted by: An Observation at September 11, 2019 10:19 AM (B0W3Y)

If they were acting in the belief or hope they would survive I agree it would not be a suicide. Our view of what their intentions were are ultimately irrelevant to the truth of the matter, and I don't see how we could establish what they were.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 10:23 AM (Wj9tV)

178 Did you notice? Once Trump threatened to nuke the hurricane, it backed off.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at September 11, 2019 10:25 AM (+y/Ru)

179 This was a second flag raising, and was done for the press,

Not really. It was done because the first flag was deemed to small.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 11, 2019 10:25 AM (85Gof)

180 Nearly 20 years later, and every small city in America has multiple mosques.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:25 AM (FiUMj)

181 Two hundred. I didn't know the number.

Posted by: Les Kinetic at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (CJNxl)

182 May God hold them all in his hands.
Today, we remember.
We need not reopen a scar to bleed again, but
neither should we cover the scar and deny its existence. It is these
scars that also make up who we are, and it is what we have learned
before, that will forever be the guide on what we do going forward.
Peace out horde.

Posted by: IP at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (QPvMy)

183 You think the significance of this day will be talked about in our public schools??

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (90T4r)

184 I was watching on a tiny TV that one of our secretaries had on her desk. Everybody's hair stood up when that second plane hit.

I was in the process of transferring my projects to another engineer as my most prodigious client offered me a job. That engineer was a Christian Lebanese fellow with the name Fouad H*******d. We headed out that morning together to introduce him to one my clients.

As we drove along talking about what we had seen we both realized his Arabic sounding name might be an issue so we decided he would Fred Hammond that day. We still laugh about that.

Those of us not there should be aware we (all of us in the US) sent a lot of resources to New York. Houston sent a forensics expert that worked diligently to process the remains that were recovered. I attended a lecture he gave on the experience he had there. It was one of the most fascinating discussions I ever heard.

Posted by: DanMan at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (XTiHL)

185 This is photojournalism. Art, I think, requires a creative intent or
impulse. This photographer caught a horrific moment in time.

I don't see any way to discuss it as art.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)

I agree it's not art, but it makes sense to use the terms and concepts of art to describe exactly WHY this particular photo has had such a powerful and lasting impact. There were photos taken of many poor souls who jumped that day, but The Falling Man is definitely the one that sticks most clearly in the mind.

Posted by: MWR, The Public Intellectual (aka Beth) at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (rP4OC)

186 Kris, Thanks for choosing this image and why it is effective. And thanks to CBD for going with it. That couldn't have been an easy decision.

Posted by: JTB at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (bmdz3)

187 75 September 11 keeps coming up in the history of the Long War between the West and islam:

9/11/1565 - the Ottomans are beaten back from their attempt to invade the island of Malta

9/11/1683 - the Ottomans are beaten back from the gates of Vienna

9/11/1697 - the Ottomans are routed at the Battle of Zenta, losing tens of thousands of soldiers and ending Turkish rule in Europe north of the Balkans

9/11/1877 - Russians & Romanians failed to dislodge the Ottomans from Plevna in a direct assault, but then laid siege to the Ottoman army, eventually driving them out of nearly all of Europe

9/11/2001 & 9/11/2011 we all know well what happened then.

Runner up - Between 9/9 & 9/13/1922, the Turkish army enters and sets fire to the city of Smyrna, Greece (now part of Turkey), killing up to 100,000 Christians in the fires and massacres
Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 09:54 AM (7HtZB)

Update - 9/11/1966: Egypt executes the godfather of islamic terrorism, Sayyid Qutb

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:27 AM (7HtZB)

188 183
You think the significance of this day will be talked about in our public schools??

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:26 AM (90T4r)
The videos of the planes going into the buildings, the buildings collapsing, the people running away from the WTC when they collapsed --- they should be played today. Every grade, every class.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:27 AM (N39Ws)

189 Nearly 20 years later, and every small city in America has multiple mosques.

-

We had to do that or else the Muslims would win.

Wait, what?

Posted by: Moron Robbie is a Proud Black Woman - my word as a Biden at September 11, 2019 10:27 AM (fsa/N)

190 I have too much sadness and anger about this subject. I'll have to sit this one out.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at September 11, 2019 10:28 AM (RD7QR)

191 I will forever remember this day and every single thing I did that day while watching it on TV in my office. I am still pissed.

Posted by: Jaimo at September 11, 2019 10:28 AM (/Kt3K)

192 but what has stuck with me since was the smell of Ground Zero.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (7HtZB)

I live 19 miles from the site, and we could smell the fires and ash for days and days...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:28 AM (wYseH)

193 9/11/2001 & 9/11/2011 we all know well what happened then.

____

Uhm, what?

Posted by: Millenials at September 11, 2019 10:29 AM (FiUMj)

194 Trump's been marking up maps again.

https://bit.ly/2lL7GL4

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at September 11, 2019 10:29 AM (+y/Ru)

195 The videos of the planes going into the buildings, the buildings collapsing, the people running away from the WTC when they collapsed --- they should be played today. Every grade, every class.

-

The day airplanes attacked some buildings old white people had built because there weren't enough NASA jobs.

Posted by: Moron Robbie is a Proud Black Woman - my word as a Biden at September 11, 2019 10:29 AM (fsa/N)

196 There was a case of a judo player who was skydiving and had his chute completely fail to open, he broke both legs but survived because he knew how to do a rolling break fall to absorb and spread out the energy of the fall.

I find this very hard to believe. Terminal velocity for a falling person is over 120mph. I can believe in a partially deployed chute though.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 11, 2019 10:30 AM (ek3OS)

197 I believe this man was a waiter or cook at the restaurant on the 107th floor of the World Trade Center called 'Windows on the World'. Ironic.

God bless this man and all who died that day. I pray that the opposition party in America can have the decency to not spew any bile but I am not optimistic.

Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 10:30 AM (oiNtH)

198 9/11/2001 & 9/11/2011 we all know well what happened then.

---------

Yeah... some people did some things

Posted by: Ilhan Omar at September 11, 2019 10:30 AM (flINI)

199 An accidental death is quite different from jumping off a building. The typical loophole employed has been to kill each other, there hasn't historically been a "dire straits imposed by an enemy" exception.
Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 10:18 AM (Wj9tV

The Masada option. But that still requires the last person to kill themselves. Unless you can arrange a mutual killing with the next to last person. .

Posted by: Fox2! at September 11, 2019 10:30 AM (MwFQu)

200 Satisfied this am that Fox aired their annual 20 minute recall of their news reports that day as the morning unfolded live. They included a video of another individual falling to his death.

Showing those videos became so controversial, as was displaying the photo above. And it shouldn't be. Future generations need to see how horrendous this was , as for them , this is becoming as abstract as Pearl Harbor and the holocaust is to the many generations removed from experiencing those events.

We have a family friend who is one of a handful of people who survived both towers collapsing onto the Marriott hotel, where he was staying, which was located directly in front of the towers. There is a five part video posted on youtube( the original documentary was produced by PBS and has often played on the History Channel, not this year though). Frank Rizzano is a DC lawyer who was in NYC on business and managed to live through and climb out of the rubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfygCVvW-lc

There is a book available on Amazon written by Joyce Ng, another survivor of the Marriott, who was a desk clerk at the time. She has preserved their stories in book form and on Kindle. It's also available at the 911 museum .

https://store.911memorial.org/products/book-hotel-911

Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 10:31 AM (t0g7x)

201 Need a couple of smirks and giggles? Well, I give you the Montana State football coach:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y279k58z

Posted by: Huck Follywood, a low grade social fever at September 11, 2019 10:31 AM (LISuA)

202 I live 19 miles from the site, and we could smell the fires and ash for days and days...
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:28 AM (wYseH)
+++++++
I lived nowhere near NY, but I saw the entire event unfold on television like so many others.

The vision of constant falling ash after the first tower came down haunts me to this day. Like a volcano erupted off Manhattan. Gave me (and continues to give me) the willies.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (e/H31)

203 9/11/2001 & 9/11/2011 we all know well what happened then.

____

Uhm, what?
Posted by: Millenials at September 11, 2019 10:29 AM
(FiUMj)

Actually, a lot of them do remember the event. They were children for the most part, and children are sponges for the world around them.

But it's just as well because the significance of that day has been beaten out of them by all the years of schooling after that.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (NFEMn)

204 I get a daily email from the Seattle Times with the day's headlines. Today's headlines...something about an ICE Detention center in Tacoma, worsening traffic, housing prices, Bolton's firing.

at the very bottom as an after thought in the "also in the news today" section, "9/11"

Posted by: Millenials at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (FiUMj)

205 My computer is updating software, so I have to do a forced shutdown. BBL

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (7HtZB)

206 I was in basic training, final week and was on FTX in the woods of Ft. Jackson, SC.

Drill Sgts informed us of what was happening.

Wasn't til two days later that we got to see the footage when we got back to garrison.

No, I'll never forget.

Posted by: SMH at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (RU4sa)

207 189 Nearly 20 years later, and every small city in America has multiple mosques.

-

We had to do that or else the Muslims would win.

Wait, what?
Posted by: Moron Robbie is a Proud Black Woman - my word as a Biden at September 11, 2019 10:27 AM (fsa/N)

Every Wal-Mart, filled with women clad in Full Burqa.

Posted by: Allie at September 11, 2019 10:33 AM (sm6Pk)

208 Off Millenials sock

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:33 AM (FiUMj)

209 The videos of the planes going into the buildings, the buildings collapsing, the people running away from the WTC when they collapsed --- they should be played today. Every grade, every class.
Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:27 AM (N39Ws)

I was at the Flight 93 memorial a couple of years ago and one of the docents there said their #1 mission is to make sure future generations understand exactly what happened and why, which is why school and youth groups are frequently brought in for personal tours and discussions.

Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 10:33 AM (t0g7x)

210 The vision of constant falling ash after the first
tower came down haunts me to this day.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 10:32 AM (e/H31)

It was a spectacularly beautiful day in this area, and the massive clouds of smoke and dust and ash stood out...weirdly discordant and out of place.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:33 AM (wYseH)

211 Religion of Peace!

Posted by: W at September 11, 2019 10:34 AM (d3y38)

212 Somewhere on the internet is a short film taken after the first tower fell and before the second of a stroll through the WTC plaza, with its banal municipal decorations covered with dust and debris. The PA system for the building is playing Billy Joel's 'Always a Woman' and the effect is very haunting.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 11, 2019 10:34 AM (FTlwv)

213 #neverforget9112001 #neverforget9112012 #BENGHAZI

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 11, 2019 10:35 AM (0O7c5)

214 It's interesting that the Falling Man is thought be Hispanic-American, because even though the man is in descent and the photo is slightly blurry, he does give of that vibe....

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:35 AM (NFEMn)

215 Wakes up.
No scratching today.
Good morning Horde.
I was on my way to the Pentagon that morning.
I shall never forget.

Posted by: Diogenes at September 11, 2019 10:35 AM (O2Oh/)

216 The picture of the jumpers that destroys me is the one of the two people holding hands as they are falling. Also the one of the woman trying to hold her skirt down. So she'd have modesty at the end. Horrible. Lasting images.

Posted by: NCKate at September 11, 2019 10:35 AM (lknvV)

217 I remember the personal locators of the responders, going off in the rubble.....

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:35 AM (90T4r)

218 Like Roland, I was in Europe during 9/11. It was surreal to be flying around while the US was totally shut down. Took nearly a week to get back home.

Posted by: Muad'dib at September 11, 2019 10:36 AM (sjdRT)

219 Nearly 20 years later, and every small city in America has multiple mosques.

They were mostly there prior to 9/11 , we just weren't aware. What is significant to me is that we elected a guy President seven years after 9/11 who changed his name to sound more Muslim, whose father and step father were Muslim and who praised Islam in his writings.

That is the day I consider America crossed the Rubicon.

That is

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:36 AM (KEA7I)

220 The Google front page does it's usual job of ignoring any thing that uplifts america or shades democrats and muslims. *Spit*

Posted by: zeera Moron Author Working on Book TWO at September 11, 2019 10:37 AM (T9rmq)

221 There was a case of a judo player who was skydiving and had his chute completely fail to open, he broke both legs but survived because he knew how to do a rolling break fall to absorb and spread out the energy of the fall.

---------------------
I find this very hard to believe. Terminal velocity for a falling person is over 120mph. I can believe in a partially deployed chute though.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 11, 2019 10:30 AM (ek3OS)

I heard on the internet that you can survive a runaway elevator by timing your jump right.

If it's on the internet, it must be true.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:37 AM (cY3LT)

222 In 1789 George Washington prayed in St. Paul s Church, on what we now call lower Broadway, on the day of his inauguration as the first president of the United States. The churchyard was already old. On September 11, 2001, several new corpses were lying on the old graves. Then quickly a temporary morgue was set up in a nearby hotel. All that the Founding Fathers stood for was contradicted in a thunderous attack on the heart of the city that calls itself the capital of the world.

Grown children had grown accustomed to taking prosperity for granted and had often scorned the virtues that created the prosperity. The frenzied celebrations of the third millennium were largely conspicuous for their cheerful banality. There were fireworks but no great blazing works of art. A generation after men went to the moon, celebrants did circles on Ferris wheels; in London a dome was built with no particular purpose in mind and was hastily filled with just about everything except an altar to God. The general euphoria was tinged with melancholy, almost like that of Alexander with no more worlds to conquer. What to do with endless peace? Some said that history had ended. Then came an airplane flying so low in a city that usually does not notice noise of any kind, that I had to take notice.

...

(more at)

https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/infandum-2

Posted by: simplemind at September 11, 2019 10:37 AM (wZ4Ux)

223 I hung my flag. It helped. But not much.

Posted by: creeper at September 11, 2019 10:38 AM (IBQUk)

224 192 but what has stuck with me since was the smell of Ground Zero.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 10:21 AM (7HtZB)

I live 19 miles from the site, and we could smell the fires and ash for days and days...

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:28 AM (wYseH)

We lived in CT at the time. Hubby worked in Manhattan about 1/2 mile from the site. He had taken the day off to work on something at home but my kids didn't know that. The schools let all the kids call home who had parents that worked in Manhattan. I'll never forget the sound of my kid's voices when I answered the phone. They were frantic. I told them as fast as I could that dad was at home that day. For weeks my husband would come home from work depressed...the smell, the pictures posted everywhere looking for loved ones.

For months my daughter would freak every time a plane flew over our house.

Also shaped our son going to VMI on ROTC scholarship. He graduated and went almost immediately to Iraq...then Afghanistan.

Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 10:38 AM (cF8AT)

225 We really mishandled the aftermath of 9/11 in so many ways, chief among them the whole "Islam is a Religion of Peace" mantra that W. uttered every chance he got.

At the time, it didn't bother me too much because I figured he was inviting Muslims to be on board with the War on Terror so he didn't want to alienate them.

But that was bullshit.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (NFEMn)

226 Separated at birth.

https://bit.ly/2mbpoHY

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (+y/Ru)

227 Yeah I got nothing good to say about this, other than parts of the planet are damn lucky I wasn't president that day.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (9Om/r)

228 "I have no idea what the stance of the Catholic Church is, or even
whether they have one. But I refuse to believe that God (Catholic or
Jewish or anyone's) would not embrace these people."
CBD, I agree. After all, in Christian belief, God Himself became a man, walked around in our skin, shared our fears, felt our pain, even prayed not to die. He remembered that moment in the Garden of Gethsemane, I'm sure. He forgave.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (S6ArX)

229 180 Nearly 20 years later, and every small city in America has multiple mosques.
_______________

And "hate law" crimes on the books that impose special enhanced penalties for doing anything to muzzies. And public schools that teach our kids that we're evil and wrong and "white supremacists," and that muzzies are oppressed noble brown folks who we have repeatedly victimized and who we owe.

And we have muzzie women in congress, telling us that our butchered U.S. Marines in Somalia, trying to help feed starving Somalians, deserved to die. And that we shouldn't have 9/11 memorials, because that might hurt muzzie feeeeeelz.

We utterly failed our fellow Americans who suffered and died on 9/11. We failed them in the years before 9/11, when we closed our eyes and allowed the muslim cancer to metastasize in our country, and also let people like Jaime Gorelick render our intelligence agencies impotent. We failed them on 9/11, when we couldn't rescue them, and we have failed them every day since 9/11, by blaming ourselves and everybody and everything except the people actually responsible for 9/11, and by groveling and kowtowing to muslims everywhere and importing millions more here and casting them as the real victims of 9/11.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (k4dH2)

230 Also shaped our son going to VMI on ROTC scholarship. He graduated and went almost immediately to Iraq...then Afghanistan.
Posted by: Tami

Our families have a commonality, just a decade or so apart.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (FTlwv)

231 I heard on the internet that you can survive a runaway elevator by timing your jump right.

If it's on the internet, it must be true.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:37 AM (cY3LT)

You can also win MegaMillions by buying the right ticket.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (NFEMn)

232 Cant look at that picture and not rage.
Sorry, not sorry.

Posted by: Uncle Pinochet 's Helicopter Rides at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (55arx)

233 One of the biggest jolts I recall was when Mayor Giuliani announced that they had lost over 300 firemen in the attack. I cried aloud. That is still unbelievable to me.

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (fad0M)

234 W, and his response regarding Islam..... haven't forgiven that, yet....

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (90T4r)

235 "They were mostly there prior to 9/11 , we just weren't aware."

Maybe they were there. But I don't remember seeing burkas and hijabs anywhere.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (FiUMj)

236 I have related this story before. One of the finest competitive moments in my table tennis career was partnering with U.S. National singles champion and eventual table tennis hall of fame member Scott Boggan to win the class A doubles championship at the Louisiana Open back in the 1980s. Scot later went on to win the World Fireman's championship. He was at the World Trade Center on 9/11 as part of the NYFD. He was one of the firemen who survived that day.

Posted by: An Observation at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (B0W3Y)

237
I hung my flag. It helped. But not much.
Posted by: creeper

I went shopping.

Posted by: Bucolic Shopaholic at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (aKsyK)

238 I visited all three sites before any memorials were put up. The one that hit me the hardest was Shanksville. What a quiet, lonely, out-of-the-way place. But it's almost a perfect place for a graveyard for heroes. A field next to some trees with just one single house a short distance away. They did not die alone. How perfect.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (OyyDO)

239 Thanks for your analysis, Kris. I point out that the people who jumped were still murdered; they were forced to jump because of the situation the murderers had put them in. But as you say, they chose their way to die.

I was living in Denver, and was working on the finale of a novel. I wrote the last scene, typed "The End," got up for coffee, switched on the TV . . . and saw the burning building. The people I knew who lived in NYC or nearby were all okay, I found out. But it still disturbed me for several days afterward, the feeling not only that something horrifying had happened, but that it was not going to be over soon. Probably like the people who heard about Pearl Harbor on the radio did.

Of course, unlike FDR reacting to Pearl Harbor, GWB didn't do the things he should have, like expelling every Moslem we could find. Instead he increased government overreach with the TSA. Gah.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (ClOmq)

240 Separated at birth.

https://bit.ly/2mbpoHY
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (+y/Ru)

What happened to my tits?

Posted by: A O C at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (NFEMn)

241 Firefighter, ascending the tower on 9/11:

https://tinyurl.com/yyl4yxxa

Does anyone know if he survived? I assume he did not.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (cY3LT)

242 Fox has a crawl at the bottom of their broadcast listing the names of all who died on 9/11. I just watched my cousins name go across the screen.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (ZLI7S)

243 234 W, and his response regarding Islam..... haven't forgiven that, yet....
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (90T4r)

___

It's unforgivable.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (FiUMj)

244 The Rulers of the Ruling Class see islam as a tool of oppression/suppression.

Posted by: davidt at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (m3tRO)

245 I hung my flag. It helped. But not much.
Posted by: creeper at September 11, 2019 10:38 AM (IBQUk)
++++++++++++++++
The behavior of flag-raisers was unusual. I was in high school and went to the school office to ask why our flag was still at full staff. They went and lowered it to half. On my way home, most of the flags that were at full staff in the morning had been lowered to half. People who had been at work all lowered their flags to half as they got home. Over my area, the flags gradually lowered throughout the day.

I have thankfully never seen anything like it since - a slow-motion movement of flags downward.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (e/H31)

246 103 May all those that jumped be with God in heaven.

Posted by: redridinghood at September 11, 2019 09:56 AM (wiXsO)

I have no idea what the stance of the Catholic Church is, or even whether they have one. But I refuse to believe that God (Catholic or Jewish or anyone's) would not embrace these people.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:01 AM (wYseH)

There were prisoners at Auschwitz who ran into the electrified fences when they couldn't take it any more.

The idea that God would refuse those people entry into Heaven because they committed suicide makes a mockery of Divine Mercy. God is supposed to be all- loving and compassionate, but He wouldn't understand and show mercy toward people suffering so horribly? He wouldn't have the kindness any ordinary human being with a heart would have?

I refuse to believe in such a petty, unmerciful God. And what is true of those Auschwitz prisoners is true of the 9/11 jumpers. Those who placed them in such an unbearably cruel situation are the ones at fault.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (d6Ksn)

247 Okay, now I am segueing into anger about 9/11.....

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (90T4r)

248 I live 19 miles from the site, and we could smell the fires and ash for days and days...

The rubble was still smoking six months later.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (HaL55)

249 Was W misguided or was he deliberate? I honestly don't know.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (FiUMj)

250 Milady and I headed to town in the late morning. Turned on the radio and heard, "the World Trade Centers are gone!" Had no other details or info yet, didn't know how, but I figured who, damn them.

Headed back to the ranchero and told the kids what we knew so far. Told them, "This is your Pearl Harbor."

Which in some ways I'd still say it was, a brutal sneak attack that changed the order of the world.

However, the Axis were obliterated in under four years.

Good art choice.

Posted by: mindful webworker at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (geVJ9)

251 >>I refuse to believe in such a petty, unmerciful God. And what is true of those Auschwitz prisoners is true of the 9/11 jumpers. Those who placed them in such an unbearably cruel situation are the ones at fault.

I'm with you.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 10:44 AM (ZLI7S)

252 249: Deliberate

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:44 AM (U7k5w)

253 And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.

That was the day when any shred of sympathy I had for them completely vanished.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 10:44 AM (d6Ksn)

254 246 I refuse to believe in such a petty, unmerciful God. And what is true of those Auschwitz prisoners is true of the 9/11 jumpers. Those who placed them in such an unbearably cruel situation are the ones at fault.
Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 10:42 AM (d6Ksn)

I'm not sure what the appeal of a cruel, merciless God of Wrath is to people.

And yet I can't shake that there are people who prefer that belief.

Posted by: Allie at September 11, 2019 10:45 AM (sm6Pk)

255 I figure the best way to counter terrorism is to live your life the way you want without fear and be as happy as productive as possible.

So while I understand the need to remember what happened and who was responsible, IMHO the best way to stick your thumb in the eye of terrorists is to live this day as any other normal day.
This renders the terrorists powerless, and makes their actions fruitless.

Posted by: Agent Cooper at September 11, 2019 10:45 AM (iAwUQ)

256 One of the biggest jolts I recall was when Mayor Giuliani announced that they had lost over 300 firemen in the attack. I cried aloud. That is still unbelievable to me.
Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (fad0M)

Giuliani was really a rock during that time. He was calm, reassuring--you could tell he wanted to cry but he didn't-- wasn't taking political cheap shots, stood up to the Saudi prince and refused his blood money, attended HUNDREDS of funerals--he was a real mensch.
Imagine De Blasio in that situation.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:45 AM (NFEMn)

257 For me, 9/11/01 was the beginning of the unmasking of the enemies of America, that continues to this day.

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (+72t1)

258 The BDS is ridiculous . That's all I have to say about that . Bye for now.

Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (KEA7I)

259 Which in some ways I'd still say it was, a brutal sneak attack that changed the order of the world.

However, the Axis were obliterated in under four years.

Good art choice.
Posted by: mindful webworker at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (geVJ9)

Roosevelt didn't call the Axis an ideology of peace or discuss the evils of a backlash

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (U7k5w)

260 249 Was W misguided or was he deliberate? I honestly don't know.
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (FiUMj)

Wasn't the Bush family basically in the back pocket of the previous Saudi Regime?

Posted by: Allie at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (sm6Pk)

261 254 I'm not sure what the appeal of a cruel, merciless God of Wrath is to people.

And yet I can't shake that there are people who prefer that belief.
Posted by: Allie at September 11, 2019 10:45 AM (sm6Pk)

========

I don't know, "Smite my enemies," is both pretty enticing for many people and meshes well with the generalized idea of a god of wrath.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (iikV8)

262 I found out listening to Howard Stern in the car. The first building hit and they were thinking it was an accident and talking about how a plane flew into the Empire State building in the 40s or 50s. Then the second one hit and it was like I had an out of body experience driving 70.

I'm not sure if he still does it, but for several years, Stern would play that day's recording as the show for 9/11.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (FiUMj)

263 We utterly failed our fellow Americans who suffered
and died on 9/11. We failed them in the years before 9/11, when we
closed our eyes and allowed the muslim cancer to metastasize in our
country, and also let people like Jaime Gorelick render our intelligence
agencies impotent. We failed them on 9/11, when we couldn't rescue
them, and we have failed them every day since 9/11, by blaming ourselves
and everybody and everything except the people actually responsible for
9/11, and by groveling and kowtowing to muslims everywhere and
importing millions more here and casting them as the real victims of
9/11.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 10:39 AM (k4dH2)

Totally this.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (9Om/r)

264 And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.

That was the day when any shred of sympathy I had for them completely vanished.
Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 10:44 AM (d6Ksn)

If that ever happened today, the media wouldn't make the mistake of letting us see that.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (NFEMn)

265 Categorizing this photo as "art" somehow diminishes both art and the event in my mind. This is art in the sense that anything is art. If someone took this photograph and enhanced it in some way, enhanced it to a degree that makes it less real, that would be art. But I personally would regard doing such a thing as disrespectful to the subject and opportunistic on the part of the "artist".

But that's just my NSHO.

Posted by: WTP at September 11, 2019 10:48 AM (66rlH)

266 Was W misguided or was he deliberate? I honestly don't know.
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:43 AM (FiUMj)

I lean towards misguided and not wanting to upset the "balance" of the world.
We needed a Trump that day.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:48 AM (NFEMn)

267 A poignant and moving photo. Godspeed

Posted by: Shelgel at September 11, 2019 10:48 AM (kiHBp)

268 Giuliani was really a rock during that time. He was
calm, reassuring--you could tell he wanted to cry but he didn't--
wasn't taking political cheap shots, stood up to the Saudi prince and
refused his blood money, attended HUNDREDS of funerals--he was a real
mensch.

Imagine De Blasio in that situation.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:45 AM (NFEMn)

That's how I remember him, and always will

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:48 AM (fad0M)

269 Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 10:38 AM (cF8AT)

Tami, our son was in his second year at USNA and 'youngsters' didn't rate phone privileges. But that morning, shortly after the plane hit the Pentagon, everyone was allowed to call their parents. I'll never forget the sound of his voice saying, "Mom, I'm ok."

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:49 AM (7tgQU)

270 Rudy G. was awesome.... will always have great respect for the man..

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:50 AM (90T4r)

271 And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.

That was the day when any shred of sympathy I had for them completely vanished.

How can you forgive somebody who would gladly do that to us again today? Or worse?

Enemies need to be vanquished, else no one lives in peace. So, so many things should have happened to secure our country against the cancer of islam, but didn't.

Appeasement has not worked. Nor will it ever.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (HaL55)

272 I heard on the internet that you can survive a runaway elevator by timing your jump right.

If it's on the internet, it must be true.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:37 AM (cY3LT)

You can also win MegaMillions by buying the right ticket.
Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (NFEMn)

Well that's objectively true, isn't it?

Just like, if you lose your keys you'll find them in the last place you look.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (cY3LT)

273 Agree with Bander. Not art.

My throat hurts looking at it.

Posted by: Goodwife Cleo at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (VIWDj)

274 And I said, Fly on my sweet angel

Fly on through the sky

Fly on my sweet angel

Forever I will be by your side

Posted by: Roland THTG at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (88+cf)

275 Categorizing this photo as "art" somehow diminishes
both art and the event in my mind.

Posted by: WTP at September 11, 2019 10:48 AM (66rlH)

That was one of my concerns, but Kris showed great sensitivity in her analysis and with the addition of her personal thoughts about the event.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (wYseH)

276 Agree with Bander. Not art.

My throat hurts looking at it.
Posted by: Goodwife Cleo at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (VIWDj)

It's iconic.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (NFEMn)

277 And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.

That was the day when any shred of sympathy I had for them completely vanished.
Posted by: Donna&&&&V

I hope that Rancid can keep her mouth shut for at least one day.

Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (oiNtH)

278 271: And to a great extent, "diversity" IS appeasement. Divided we stand, United we fall is simply wrong and dangerous.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (U7k5w)

279 274 And I said, Fly on my sweet angel

Fly on through the sky

Fly on my sweet angel

Forever I will be by your side
Posted by: Roland THTG at September 11, 2019 10:51 AM (88+cf)

Nicely done, Roland...

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (90T4r)

280 Tami, our son was in his second year at USNA and 'youngsters' didn't rate phone privileges. But that morning, shortly after the plane hit the Pentagon, everyone was allowed to call their parents. I'll never forget the sound of his voice saying, "Mom, I'm ok."

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:49 AM (7tgQU)

Yeah, it's something that you just can't forget.

We lived in what was considered a 'bedroom community' of NY. Amazingly enough, no one from the town we lived in was killed on 9/11. And there were tons of people that commuted into NYC for work, like my husband did.

Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (cF8AT)

281 The God I try to serve (and fail miserably at daily) is a merciful and gracious God. He hates the idea of eternity without us. If you're saved then you're saved, suicide or no. If you're damned, it's not because of suicide.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (OyyDO)

282 I found out listening to Howard Stern in the car. The first building hit and they were thinking it was an accident and talking about how a plane flew into the Empire State building in the 40s or 50s. Then the second one hit and it was like I had an out of body experience driving 70.

I'm not sure if he still does it, but for several years, Stern would play that day's recording as the show for 9/11.
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (FiUMj)
--------

Three jobs prior to current, I was fixing the site VP's printer, and he had CNN on his telly, watching the stock-ticker. Said it was a travesty, and then the 2nd plane plowed into the 2nd tower.

Posted by: Pinochet Air Tours Flt Attendant at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (zL/eJ)

283 264 And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.
______________

They weren't the only ones. I recall reading an article, in Time magazine IIRC, that said there had been many "private" (as in, not in front of cameras) celebrations of 9/11 in homes across Egypt and other muslim countries.

And I'd bet there were parties in Somalia too, before hundreds of thousands of muzzie Somalis hopped on board boats and planes to come to the U.S. as "refugees" and live on welfare and set up fraudulent daycare centers and rip off American taxpayers for billions of dollars, or use their welfare checks to pay for plane tickets to terrorist training camps in Europe and the middle east.

Yeah, we really showed them after 9/11, didn't we?

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (k4dH2)

284
I hope that Rancid can keep her mouth shut for at least one day.
Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (oiNtH)

Not me, let her rip the scars away. People need to see what she is.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (U7k5w)

285 I hope that Rancid can keep her mouth shut for at least one day.
======
She'll be banging her gums about Islamophobic rallies all day long.

Posted by: simplemind at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (Sbl62)

286
I hope that Rancid can keep her mouth shut for at least one day.
Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 10:52 AM (oiNtH)

This one, she's even worse than Omar.

Posted by: JoeF. at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (NFEMn)

287 Documentary photography: is it art?

In this particular case, no.

It is however an image that no American should ever forget.

Posted by: kallisto at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (DJFLF)

288 I am fine with this picture. Those that want to hide it are the ones to worry about.

Posted by: Puddin Head at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (2LelM)

289
And I will NEVER, EVER forget the Palis laughing and dancing and passing out candy to celebrate.

If we're lucky they got tooth decay.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (aKsyK)

290 Wasn't the Bush family basically in the back pocket of the previous Saudi Regime?
Posted by: Allie at September 11, 2019 10:46 AM (sm6Pk)

Yes, the House of Bush is basically a cadet branch of the House of Saud. One of the main reasons why we never got serious about the Islamists.

Posted by: Biggs Darklighter at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (N4xQB)

291 That was one of my concerns, but Kris showed great sensitivity in her
analysis and with the addition of her personal thoughts about the event.

Thanks to you both. This image needs to be seen. If ever an image was deemed to be "important" (as we're told about so much useless art), it's this one.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (HaL55)

292 Our families have a commonality, just a decade or so apart.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (FTlwv)

Well, maybe not. He was in HS on 9/11...graduated in 2004. Graduated from VMI in 2008.

Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (cF8AT)

293 Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at September 11, 2019 10:17 AM (N39Ws)

Oh, my - I can't imagine witnessing it. I hope she finds peace, too.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (7tgQU)

294 Air travel was a mess.

Lady I know was out of town, flight got diverted. Wound up stuck several days in Canada.

Posted by: simplemind at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (Sbl62)

295 If we're lucky they got tooth decay.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (aKsyK)

thanks for the laugh - it's cathartic right now

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (+72t1)

296 I visited all three sites before any memorials were put up. The one that hit me the hardest was Shanksville. What a quiet, lonely, out-of-the-way place. But it's almost a perfect place for a graveyard for heroes. A field next to some trees with just one single house a short distance away. They did not die alone. How perfect.
Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:41 AM (OyyDO)

I first visited Shanksville about 8 years ago, before the new indoor museum was put up. And a couple of years ago , when it was open and the new tower of voices is being built.

Sometimes, memorials can be overdone. I personally think it was extremely meaningful to simply walk along the edge of the debris field, look out at the hemlock grove , and the large boulder marking the excavation site, and listen to the quiet. Driving in, they had small informative story boards you could pull over to read, and stand and picture the plane flying upside down over your head before it crashed. You could look out at the small village in the distance where witnesses saw the plane flying low above them, rocking back and forth.
The story boards were missing when I was there last, and while I agree that the indoor museum with flight path walk is necessary to tell the story, the tower of voices is overdone.

That tower was started four years ago and still isn't finished because it's not working the way the designers and artists thought it would. Only a few of the chimes are hung, which , IMO, is embarrassing. I'm not sure why no one realized that winds change directions frequently, and wind is often non existent below hillsides.

I preferred the quiet of nature to clanging of different tones of chimes ringing out over the landscape.

Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (t0g7x)

297 All the war and death that has followed 9/11 has not made us one iota safer.
Sending our soldiers and our service men and women over there has not made us safer.

This happened because our governments let them come here.

Our governments are still letting them get to us.

Posted by: Speller at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (pSotA)

298 I was reading a moderate Muslim whistleblower (can't remember name), who said Qatar is quietly financing and organizing a House run for Sarsour next year.

If true, it will mean that on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, NYC will have a radical Muslim Congresswoman.

Wouldn't that be so special?

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (QqhVI)

299 Part of it is that Bush, like a lot of Christians, assumes that since they are religious they worship a God like theirs. Wrong.

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (fad0M)

300 regarding the photo of the young firefighter in the stairwell--I read that he did survive.
His name is Mike Kehoe

Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (W7IZQ)

301 It was eerie to look into the sky and not see any planes or vapor trails for days on end. I cannot look at a vapor trail the same to this day.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (OyyDO)

302 298: And what are we, chopped liver?

Posted by: Ihlan and Rashida at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (U7k5w)

303 The God I try to serve (and fail miserably at daily) is a merciful and gracious God. He hates the idea of eternity without us. If you're saved then you're saved, suicide or no. If you're damned, it's not because of suicide.
Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:53 AM (OyyDO)

I assume most people know at least one person who completed suicide. I've known several.

One at least had time to say "sorry" to the person in this world they loved the most. It's such a profoundly personal decision, I can't imagine judging anyone who makes it.

I can't possibly know what was in their minds or hearts. But God knows.

Posted by: BurtTC at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (cY3LT)

304 Outstanding choice, CBD !
I liked what you wrote about the pic and its meaning, too.

Anyone else remember the brief fad in '02 for "escape" hang gliders and parasails ?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (pkvuH)

305 I went to the site of the towers on my visit to NYC last year. I liked the memorial. The waterflow that drowned out all other sound. The names. The sparseness of the display. The knowledge that this land is worth so very much in the middle of Manhattan, but they keep it empty for a reason.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (iikV8)

306
By suppressing images and videos such as this, our media "masters" intended to turn this day into a pastiche of visual euphemisms that clouds the true horror that it was.

I well recall the images and videos of all the folks posting notices around NYC asking whether anybody had seen those they were missing. It was akin, in a way, to the ending of Gangs of New York where the bodies of those killed in the Draft Riots were laid out for identification and claiming.

This will never be "some people did something" day.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (pNxlR)

307 298 I was reading a moderate Muslim whistleblower (can't remember name), who said Qatar is quietly financing and organizing a House run for Sarsour next year.

If true, it will mean that on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, NYC will have a radical Muslim Congresswoman.

Wouldn't that be so special?
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (QqhVI)

======

Well, if NYC doesn't want that to happen, they can participate in the election at greater than 17%.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (iikV8)

308 Tami, Class of 17, in Iraq now.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (FTlwv)

309 Our governments are still letting them get to us.
Posted by: Speller at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (pSotA)

our elites who run government has completely failed to protect us
they continue to think that an existential threat to our nation is irrelevant to their own safety

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (+72t1)

310 298 I was reading a moderate Muslim whistleblower (can't remember name), who said Qatar is quietly financing and organizing a House run for Sarsour next year.

If true, it will mean that on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, NYC will have a radical Muslim Congresswoman.

Wouldn't that be so special?

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (QqhVI)

It's certainly one way to announce the country is over.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (Wj9tV)

311 This will never be "some people did something" day.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (pNxlR)

The more muslims we have, the more it will be suppressed.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (U7k5w)

312 The Google front page does it's usual job of ignoring any thing that uplifts america or shades democrats and muslims. *Spit*>>
It has a flag with a black ribbon at this point.

Posted by: FrodoB, learning to reload at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (i5RAz)

313 I hate this picture as well as everything that happened that day. I understand the need to continue to show it, but the pain it brings makes me want to never show it again.

I got extremely lucky that day. Due to where the partner I needed signatures from, I was in Stamford instead of walking between the two towers on my way to my office in the World Financial Towers. My pregnant wife was in midtown.

I also acted in a very selfish way, which is a bit shameful, but rational (or at least I can rationalize it). I raced back down to the city and as soon as I could I collected my wife and raced her out to her dad's in western NJ near the PA border.

Luckily I don't feel like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs anymore in the city (I'm currently working in DC) on September 11th.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Posted by: saxinis.kion at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (0kCTs)

314 Yep, we really won the global war on terrorism...

*spit*

Laters, y'all.

Posted by: SMH at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (RU4sa)

315 Months earlier, we had planned to drive from the mid-atlantic to new england for a family vacation departing on the 13th of September 2001. We embarked on our journey early. Entering the New Jersey tpk at the south point about mid morning, we drove north. At times, we were the only car within visual distance. The tpk had placed signs saying "no access to New York City." It was surreal and somewhat unnerving.

Posted by: Actually inside the beltway at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (ldXWf)

316 This will never be "some people did something" day.

-----------

No it is not.

It is up to us who were alive and of age that day to make sure the generations behind us understand this.

Posted by: SH at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (sX1BW)

317 I preferred the quiet of nature to clanging of different tones of chimes ringing out over the landscape.
Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (t0g7x)

I wished that an official memorial was never put up. Maybe a small marker for the exact site, but it was perfect the way it was.

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (OyyDO)

318 Posted by: Biggs Darklighter at September 11, 2019 10:54 AM (N4xQB)

I personally think the Bushs were carefully groomed. The particular branch of the house of S'Aud they are so close to is very Westernized, the better to soothe the Western leaders they court. "See how civilized we are, pay no attention to our crazy peasants, all countries have their little reactionaries, even yours....."

Commies and the ruling Muzz classes are all in it for the long game. The West is and has been missing this completely.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (fc+t9)

319 308 Tami, Class of 17, in Iraq now.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 11, 2019 10:58 AM (FTlwv)

Ah ok. I'll keep him in my prayers...and you too.

Posted by: Tami at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (cF8AT)

320 Some of the art of the photograph could also be its evoking a memory of a tarot card deck -- a man falling from a tower. I can't research it right now, but I think one of the standard decks uses a similar image. Maybe some kind of collective memory that is somehow understood viscerally.

Really can not deal with the suicide discussion because yesterday my great nephew committed suicide. Thank you, however, to the link to the Catechism, that I will now look up to attempt to comfort my nephew and niece.

Posted by: mustbequantum at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (MIKMs)

321 in some ways feudalism would be superior to the current globalist elitocracy - just look at Europe

under feudalism, the feudal lord actually protected his territory from invasion, or he was either dead or out

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (+72t1)

322 My dad (retired airline pilot) was in the queue behind Flight 11 at Logan. His destination was Chicago, but he ended up getting diverted to Buffalo and was there for three days.

And, I think today's a good day to re-read Oriana Fallaci's "The Rage and the Pride."

Posted by: Mainah at September 11, 2019 11:02 AM (h+K+I)

323 271: And to a great extent, "diversity" IS appeasement. Divided we stand, United we fall is simply wrong and dangerous.

1. "Diversity" is racism. Tucker Carlson rightly questions it: "How does diversity strengthen us in any way?" The proper answer is that it cannot.
2. "Diversity" destroys the concept of merit. It's meant to deliberately downgrade personal achievement and excellence in any pursuit. It destroys from within, as it's designed to do.

We cannot and must not allow that very dangerous mindset to flourish in any way. The best and the brightest must always rise to the top and always be sought in any endeavor regardless of what others may say.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:03 AM (HaL55)

324 320 Some of the art of the photograph could also be its evoking a memory of a tarot card deck -- a man falling from a tower. I can't research it right now, but I think one of the standard decks uses a similar image. Maybe some kind of collective memory that is somehow understood viscerally.

Really can not deal with the suicide discussion because yesterday my great nephew committed suicide. Thank you, however, to the link to the Catechism, that I will now look up to attempt to comfort my nephew and niece.
Posted by: mustbequantum at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (MIKMs)

I know for a fact that The Tower in the Rider-Waite deck shows that very thing. Back to lurk mode.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at September 11, 2019 11:03 AM (RD7QR)

325 Yeah, still disagree. Just my opinion but critiquing this photo in the context of light and baroqueness and whatever is, to me, creepy. But hey, that's just me. As I said it was just MNSHO. Kinda the point of a discussion, yes?

As for this being a "suicide", that also seems rather heartless. This person was obviously caught in a death-or-death situation. His leap was no more a suicide than than that of a kid on Omaha Beach knowing if he stays on that beach he's gonna die but if he charges that machine gun nest, he's gonna die too but maybe, just maybe might live. People have fallen from much greater heights than the WTC (the record, I believe, is around 10K ft.). Of course they had something soft to break their fall, not concrete and rubble. But still, while something to consider, considering such a thing suicide I would dismiss rather quickly.

Posted by: WTP at September 11, 2019 11:04 AM (66rlH)

326 Probably already mentioned?

Owner of that print as well as many other 9/11 photographs is. . . Elton John.

Posted by: Lizzy at September 11, 2019 11:04 AM (bDqIh)

327 320 Some of the art of the photograph could also be its evoking a memory of a tarot card deck -- a man falling from a tower. I can't research it right now, but I think one of the standard decks uses a similar image. Maybe some kind of collective memory that is somehow understood viscerally.

==

The hanged man

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:04 AM (+72t1)

328 That day, that event, captures Islam and its evil. That's what we cannot forget but what too many of us are unwilling to consider.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:04 AM (H8QX8)

329
Some of the art of the photograph could also be its evoking a memory of a tarot card deck -- a man falling from a tower. I can't research it right now, but I think one of the standard decks uses a similar image. Maybe some kind of collective memory that is somehow understood viscerally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hanged_Man_(Tarot_card)

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at September 11, 2019 11:05 AM (aKsyK)

330 Didn't know anyone murdered that day but flew out the day before with my 6 year old son to join my wife at her mother's funeral that week. Since then, that boy has deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: KungPow at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (7jrRr)

331 299 Part of it is that Bush, like a lot of Christians, assumes that since they are religious they worship a God like theirs. Wrong.
Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (fad0M)

Yep. The ignorance about Islam is really astounding. Many Christians I know think it's just like Christianity, except with Mohammed instead of Jesus. When you try to explain that it's basically political ideology dressed up as a religion and violence toward unbelievers is baked into Islam's DNA, you're dismissed as a bigot.

Milo said he thinks the difference might be that many of the Muslims who come to the States are from wealthy or at least middle class families, they go to college, they have professional jobs and so forth. It's hard for people to associate that nice Walid guy in math class or their personable family physician with an extreme ideology. They are not an underclass here.

It's different in Europe, where you have entire neighborhoods of poor, assimilated Muslims. Not that that bothers the Euro leftists one bit...

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (d6Ksn)

332 Have a unit pin from Precinct 13, given to me by one of the other Officers. It will always be treasured.

Posted by: Anon a mouse at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (6qErC)

333 Really can not deal with the suicide discussion because yesterday my great nephew committed suicide. Thank you, however, to the link to the Catechism, that I will now look up to attempt to comfort my nephew and niece.
Posted by: mustbequantum at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (MIKMs)

Condolences to you and your family. I had a mentor commit suicide a couple of years ago and that is a grief that is different from dealing with other deaths. There is a guilt ( not justified, but there anyway) that loved ones have to deal with. May you all find peace with this with time.

Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (t0g7x)

334 in some ways feudalism would be superior to the current globalist elitocracy - just look at Europe

under feudalism, the feudal lord actually protected his territory from invasion, or he was either dead or out
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (+72t1)

There were a great number of Feudal Lords who never set foot on their fief, and had merely gotten the land as part of a title awarded to them by the King.

Posted by: Surfperch at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (tVQUs)

335 I personally think the Bushs were carefully groomed. The particular branch of the house of S'Aud they are so close to is very Westernized, the better to soothe the Western leaders they court. "See how civilized we are, pay no attention to our crazy peasants, all countries have their little reactionaries, even yours....."

I believe you're correct in that assessment, although I most have no idea what has been going on inside the House of Saud for the last 30 years - I believe there is plenty of evidence to show that there was a long running civil war going on inside the House of Saud, and the 9/11 attacks were just one of the side effects of that Civil War. So, yes, Saudi's were involved in carrying them out; but their goal was to destroy US support for the faction that was in power at the time, since we had been propping them up for decades.

One thing - you can't disparage "conspiracy theories" when talking about the Saudi's, because they are notoriously secretive and duplicitous, and every decision make every day is the result of some palace intrigue or another. For the Saudi rulers, "Conspiracies" are how every decision is arrived at every day. They don't know how to do things any other way.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (Kpl3J)

336 Really can not deal with the suicide discussion because yesterday my great nephew committed suicide. Thank you, however, to the link to the Catechism, that I will now look up to attempt to comfort my nephew and niece.
Posted by: mustbequantum at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (MIKMs)

I am so sorry.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 11:07 AM (d6Ksn)

337 233 One of the biggest jolts I recall was when Mayor Giuliani announced that they had lost over 300 firemen in the attack. I cried aloud. That is still unbelievable to me.
Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 10:40 AM (fad0M)

Thanks for that reminder.

Posted by: m at September 11, 2019 11:07 AM (PKJKn)

338 321 in some ways feudalism would be superior to the current globalist elitocracy - just look at Europe

under feudalism, the feudal lord actually protected his territory from invasion, or he was either dead or out
Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (+72t1)

Under some forms of it, the nobles had duties to the commoners. Noblesse Oblige and all that. The Globalist Kleptocracy has no sense of obligation at all.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est at September 11, 2019 11:07 AM (J+mig)

339 It was eerie to look into the sky and not see any planes or vapor trails for days on end. I cannot look at a vapor trail the same to this day.
Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 10:57 AM (OyyDO)

Same here. I remember sitting on the sidelines during my son's football practice in a lawn chair, looking at the empty sky. For me that was the most palpable part of the whole, being 2500 miles away from ground zero.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, With a Broken Brain at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (xPJvm)

340 171
Sept. 11, 2001 10:28am -- Collapse of the North Tower. It had been burning for 102 minutes.
In my kid's High School English class, they were assigned the book "102 Minutes." Knowing the bent of public school instruction, I was leery and skeptical of what the book might conclude. In fact, it turned out to be a decent recounting of the unfolding tragedy-cum-murder, written very much in the form of the post-analysis investigations presented as a novel.

It pulled no punches about people still escaping the building having to dodge those poor unfortunates from above the flames who chose something besides a fiery death. I hadn't realized that there were so many....

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (/2X2F)

341 I was at work on 9-11, doing Tech Support at MSFT. I can still remember that day. And the days after.

Just 31. Just a hair too old to enlist, I was told. I should have tried anyway.

I wear the black today in memory.

Falling man should be flying man, if anyone deserved unexpected super powers, that guy did. RIP.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (bcbK8)

342 our elites who run government has completely failed to protect us

they continue to think that an existential threat to our nation is irrelevant to their own safety

They are very well protected. The rest of us aren't.

I can't grok how a person can reach adulthood without understanding the nature of an enemy. Those people don't seem to have a concept of others who would gladly kill them. They don't even act as though they exist.

I just don't get it. Like so many other things in this life...
I should just enjoy being a Moron, I suppose. Ignorance is bliss.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (HaL55)

343 Like you CBD I saw it live on TV. It didn't feel like an unexceptional experience to me though. One of the craziest things over ever seen. I sat down to the television that morning as a life long Democrat and left my house that day as a fundamentally changed person.

Posted by: Max Power at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (llxrS)

344 Ace Bailey, former Boston Bruin, died on one of the planes on 9/11. He's the only person I had any personal knowledge of who died that day. I was a Bruin's fan as a kid and remember watching him play.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (H8QX8)

345 mustbequantum, deepest sympathies and prayers on your loss

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:09 AM (+72t1)

346 No. The Tower shows a falling man much more explicitly in the Rider-Waite deck: https://images.app.goo.gl/D5mwsWhReQDMD5VB8

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at September 11, 2019 11:09 AM (RD7QR)

347 I also acted in a very selfish way, which is a bit shameful, but rational (or at least I can rationalize it). I raced back down to the city and as soon as I could I collected my wife and raced her out to her dad's in western NJ near the PA border.

Luckily I don't feel like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs anymore in the city (I'm currently working in DC) on September 11th.

Thanks for letting me vent.
Posted by: saxinis.kion at September 11, 2019 11:00 AM (0kCTs)

There is neither shame nor selfishness in protecting kith and kin. You were responsible for the well-being and safety of your wife and child and you did what was good and honorable.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at September 11, 2019 11:10 AM (8/7u2)

348 Prayers up, mustbequantum.

Suicide sucks.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:11 AM (HaL55)

349 When I get home, I think I'll buy a gun and watch some porn.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:11 AM (bcbK8)

350 I can't grok how a person can reach adulthood without understanding the nature of an enemy. Those people don't seem to have a concept of others who would gladly kill them. They don't even act as though they exist.

I just don't get it. Like so many other things in this life...
I should just enjoy being a Moron, I suppose. Ignorance is bliss.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy

Thanks to this anti-bullying shit, not enough people have been popped in the nose.

Too many think there are no "wolves at the door" because everyone has been forced to play nice.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 11, 2019 11:11 AM (0pc8A)

351 http://bit.ly/2ZPBMjT
*******
Never Forget How U.S. Intelligence Failed You American Greatness

Posted by: Deep State is in Deep Shit at September 11, 2019 11:11 AM (BqBId)

352 My dad flew home or out (I forget which) on a business trip one or two days after air service resumed. I picked him up from the airport. It was extremely eerie - a kind of eerie I have never experienced since.

My window wouldn't roll down, so I had to open the door to collect my parking ticket. Every pike/arm had a man with a machine gun posted at it. It is the only time in my life I have ever had a gun drawn on me and ordered to stand down. I had to explain that my window was broken and I needed a ticket. He collected it from the machine and handed it to me and advised me to very cautious exiting the parking lot. I took him up on it.

Inside (DIA), it was more of the same - armed men conspicuously everywhere. The place was almost empty - virtually no one was flying. I have never been to DIA at *any* time of the day or night when it was so empty. I could hear my footsteps echoing through the concourse. Some places aren't supposed to be empty. That is one of them.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (not a cop!) at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (e/H31)

353 The grave matter criteria is clearly present, but I personally doubt that the third criteria is specifically present in these circumstances. Having to make a snap decision to jump or stay in a burning building to me doesn't seem like something you could make a deliberate and complete decision for.

I hope and pray that they were able to reconcile with God on the way down. Any judgement is way above my pay grade.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at September 11, 2019 09:50 AM (KUaJL)

And it's because of beliefs like these that I don't adhere organized religion.

My God is merciful.

Posted by: Sooner at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (Fs5vw)

354 I was working 4 to Mids back then. Mrs. Cop ran into the bedroom yelling, "Wake up! We're under attack!" that morning. When I saw the 1st of the Twin Towers collapse on tv, I told her, New York just lost a bunch of police and fire fighters.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (YQ4mh)

355 My day job is in Emergency Management. When the first plane hit, we were setting up for a kick-off meeting for a new DOJ anti-terrorism grant we were going to administer. Two men from TX A&M Engineering Extension Service (TEEX) and a rep from the Washington DC DOJ were in for the day to run the meeting. When the second plane hit, the guys from TEEX looked at each other and said "Bin Laden".
The lady from DOJ was married to a firefighter in DC. She couldn't get a hold of him three days. Planes were grounded so she finally rented a car and drove back to DC. Heard later that her husband was fine, just working round the clock.

Someone stopped me in the hallway that morning, just after the first plane hit, and we speculated about whether it was an accident or on purpose. He asked if it was a passenger plane, and I said that it must have been a cargo plane because who would fly a passenger plane into a building on purpose. I remembered that this morning. It struck me that hat was the last time flying a planeload of people to their deaths would be unthinkable.

Posted by: NavyMom at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (7tgQU)

356 When I get home, I think I'll buy a gun and watch some porn.

----------

America!

Posted by: SH at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (sX1BW)

357 The Civil War inside the House of Saud really didn't come to an end until Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman took power about 3 years ago, which is why the left hates him so much.

And he's ended it in the classic way a hard nosed ruler ends it - a lot of "disappearances" of wealthy and powerful people inside his own family, and the quiet internal exile of a lot more. He was roundly criticized for ordering the murder of Kashoggi, and I think he had that done very sloppily, but I think once the number of murders you've ordered gets into the hundreds, if not thousands, you start to not pay too much attention to the details.

And it's actually a good move for us to support him; he is finally taking out all of the people who were a real threat to us as well. Not because he likes us, but because he recognized them as a threat to himself. Well, this is how Kingdoms operate, this is how they have always operated. Better a ruthless bastard like him in power there, than the chaos that passes for government in Iraq these days, or the Shiites in Iran.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (Kpl3J)

358 Posted by: mustbequantum at September 11, 2019 11:01 AM (MIKMs)

I am terribly sorry about your great nephew.

Posted by: Insomniac at September 11, 2019 11:12 AM (NWiLs)

359 It pulled no punches about people still escaping the building having to dodge those poor unfortunates from above the flames who chose something besides a fiery death. I hadn't realized that there were so many....
Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (/2X2F)

Someone mentioned above about the Muzak playing in the courtyard with the initial rubble lying about. That is from a French film makers recording( he was at the towers that day to make a documentary on NYC, amazingly) and it has footage and sound of firemen standing in the lobby of WTC , waiting orders to go up, and you can hear bodies thumping on the roof of the canopy over the lobby entrance, and breaking glass from same. The firefighters were concerned about going outside for equipment because of the hazard of getting hit by jumpers.

I'm not sure where to find that documentary.

Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (t0g7x)

360 350: you hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (QQcVe)

361 The NYT on Twitter this morning posted about how 18 years ago "airplanes" hit the twin towers. They were flying along and whoopsie!!!

They got so much crap for this that they deleted the tweet for "clarity."

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (KZzsI)

362 Have to say that Catholicism often seems more comforting in great times of stress than my Protestantism.... just my personal observation, nothing else.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (90T4r)

363 "309 Our governments are still letting them get to us.
Posted by: Speller at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (pSotA)

our elites who run government has completely failed to protect us
they continue to think that an existential threat to our nation is irrelevant to their own safety

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (+72t1) "

Very, very well put.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (pkvuH)

364 the tower in Rider Waite is evocative of the image/or vice versa, but the position of the Hanged Man is also often referenced

Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (W7IZQ)

365 It really is an incredibly powerful image.

Aside: I'm having to block people in my "Minds" feed because they're all "911TRUTH" all the time. It's incredibly annoying.

I no longer doubt the existence of a possibility of the Deep State pulling off such a thing. Certainly not since everything that has already come-out about what the Obomunists did to Trump and his campaign. But, you know, if 911 really was an "inside job" I'm pretty sure it would have been revealed to the world by now - by Obama, at least - methinks.

Posted by: DocJ at September 11, 2019 11:14 AM (DU2N9)

366 344- Ace Bailey died in 1992

Posted by: Creek at September 11, 2019 11:14 AM (13BOh)

367 Thanks to this anti-bullying shit, not enough people have been popped in the nose.

Yeah while bullying is cruel and nasty, to some degree it did teach a valuable lesson: some people are bad and mean and awful. Some people act terribly toward each other and must be stood up to.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (KZzsI)

368 the French documentary was by the Naudet brothers

Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (W7IZQ)

369 344- Ace Bailey died in 1992
Posted by: Creek at September 11, 2019 11:14 AM (13BOh)

Not the same Ace Bailey.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (H8QX8)

370 Just had an MRI done on my elbow and I could actually feel it pulsing in my elbow a few times. Never happened before and I have had at least 10 of them done over the years.

I know everyone says you can't "feel" anything during an MRI but something was going on in there.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (JUOKG)

371 The NYT on Twitter this morning posted about how 18 years ago "airplanes" hit the twin towers. They were flying along and whoopsie!!!

They got so much crap for this that they deleted the tweet for "clarity."

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (KZzsI)

Kinda like how "guns" kill people, unless it's a cop pulling the trigger.

These people are scum.

Posted by: DocJ at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (DU2N9)

372 I always think of those that jumped. Of all the people put into an unimaginably horrible situation on that day, the people who had to choose between the heat and fire or falling to their deaths? Just get me a bit deeper than all of the others. Just a bit deeper trying to imagine being faced with that choice. Remembering. Always.

Posted by: mom2ads at September 11, 2019 11:15 AM (hcvAY)

373 Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (Kpl3J)

There are literally dozens of royal princes and hundreds of royal nieces and nephews. I honestly don't think all of them are bad or approved of the September 11th attacks in any way, but they are all very attached to the lifestyle and don't want things too shook up.

And yes, conspiracy theories abound. It's prevalent all across the Arab world, seems to be baked in to the DNA of the culture. It predates Islam, which is a fairly young religion in the grand scheme of things. Look at all the insane stories they use to stoke their hatred of Jews. As a culture, they seem to go all-in on Crazy.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:16 AM (fc+t9)

374 We have everything backwards.

Islam is a conquest ideology, pretending to be an Abrahamic religion. 9:121: "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you, be firm with them." This is their creed.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 11:17 AM (U7k5w)

375 It pulled no punches about people still escaping the building having to dodge those poor unfortunates from above the flames who chose something besides a fiery death. I hadn't realized that there were so many....
____________

On the amateur YouTube videos, you can watch firemen trying to get people out of the ground floor, and you can hear the thuds every few seconds of another jumper's (or faller's) body hitting. Sometimes you see the firemen grimace at the sound.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 11:17 AM (k4dH2)

376 373: inbreeding.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at September 11, 2019 11:17 AM (QQcVe)

377 Oops, my bad Smoot

Posted by: Creek at September 11, 2019 11:18 AM (13BOh)

378 I often wonder what a President Trump would have done in the aftermath of 9/11. Has he ever opined on that?

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:18 AM (7HtZB)

379 >>And it's actually a good move for us to support him; he is finally taking out all of the people who were a real threat to us as well.

Prince Alwaleed bin Talal - the uber-slimy, DC-connected scumbag who offered Giuliani a huge check right after 9-11 without acknowledgement or apology for his Saudi-citizens' role in the attack.

I loved Giuliani for telling him essentially to go f#ck himself and his money.

Posted by: Lizzy at September 11, 2019 11:18 AM (bDqIh)

380 our elites who run government has completely failed to protect us
they continue to think that an existential threat to our nation is irrelevant to their own safety

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 10:59 AM (+72t1) "

And they are protected against illegal alien violence as well. Just rake in the cash from cheap labor while they shiv their countrymen.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (U7k5w)

381 >>My dad flew home or out (I forget which) on a business trip one or two days after air service resumed. I picked him up from the airport. It was extremely eerie - a kind of eerie I have never experienced since.

I flew out of Logan on the day it reopened. It was very quiet, not a lot of people and those who were there were very subdued.

I distinctly remember the trash barrels setup by the improvised increased security. They were filling up with things like matches, lighters, small pocket knives, tweezers ... stuff that just a week prior were common stuff in everyone's pockets or purses.

Very strange day.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (ZLI7S)

382 To me, the thing that hits me most 18 years later is that tons of my own countrymen now hate me more than the Muzzies do. I expected to be hated and hunted by them - they hate Jews, they hate America, they hate the West, they hate prosperity. Remember all that "unity" bullshit right after 9/11? Look how far we've come.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (oZ6kz)

383 Yep. The ignorance about Islam is really astounding. Many Christians I
know think it's just like Christianity, except with Mohammed instead of
Jesus.

It's sad yet deliberate. Just axe someone who mohammed is. You won't get the correct answer. Then axe why not just worship Jesus instead of some moon god?

And for the coups-de-grass, inquire as to which tenet of islam exhorts its followers to become better people. If any.

Hint: there isn't one.

islam is the exact polar opposite of Christianity, devised by Notorious BLZ Bubb for the expressed purpose of confusing you and keeping you away from God, Jesus and Heaven. islam is satan.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (HaL55)

384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (bcbK8)

385 I remember reading an article not long after 9/11 that said one of the firemen tried to make an announcement over the building's PA system; something to the effect of, "please don't jump, we're coming up to get you."

It makes me tear up every time I think about it.

Posted by: Jordan61 at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (Ez6QX)

386 A couple of themes that recur, year to year, for me:

- Flight 93
- Rick Rescorla
Honor to the fallen, yes, but also the resolve to follow in those footsteps if life carries me into that situation.

- The security guard(s) telling people "it's under control, go back to your offices".
Anyone ever tries telling me something like that better stand back or my footprints will be on their chest.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (pkvuH)

387 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019

*
*

Imagine if Kerry or Gore had been president. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (ClOmq)

388 >>344- Ace Bailey died in 1992

That was his dad.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (ZLI7S)

389 382 To me, the thing that hits me most 18 years later is that tons of my own countrymen now hate me more than the Muzzies do. I expected to be hated and hunted by them - they hate Jews, they hate America, they hate the West, they hate prosperity. Remember all that "unity" bullshit right after 9/11? Look how far we've come.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (oZ6kz)

Both with countries and people it's typically your neighbors you have to worry most about.

Posted by: Someguy at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (Wj9tV)

390 Thanks CBD/Kris. I never realized before how well composed that shot is given it was almost certainly taken spur-of-the-moment.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (ZGrMX)

391 A couple of weekends after 9/11 my daughter had a soccer tourny in nova. Flights were still limited so it was eerie to see the empty skies, and everyone reacting to what few planes there were.
Not sure of the time frame anymore but later I flew in to Trenton and was struck by the smoke/ash/dust still rising from the world Trade Center site.

That's my memories.

Posted by: FrodoB, learning to reload at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (i5RAz)

392 And, I think today's a good day to re-read Oriana Fallaci's "The Rage and the Pride."
Posted by: Mainah

I did not realize that Fallaci died in 2006. One of her brutally honest quotes:

"The increased presence of Muslims in Italy and Europe is directly proportional to our loss of freedom".

Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (oiNtH)

393 Sam Davis Guard for the 4 Time SB Champ Steelers of the 1970's wandered away from a nursing home & they have found him dead

Posted by: Deep State is in Deep Shit at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (BqBId)

394 Well, if NYC doesn't want that to happen, they can participate in the election at greater than 17%.

-------

I'm not so sure. These are the Crazy Years, when anything can happen. And NYC is one of the bubbling fonts of cray-cray in the US, so I wouldn't bar a Sarsour win in a high turnout election, necessarily.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (E4gJk)

395 islam is the exact polar opposite of Christianity,
devised by Notorious BLZ Bubb for the expressed purpose of confusing you
and keeping you away from God, Jesus and Heaven. islam is satan.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM

---

islam is barbaric in the extreme. Yesterday was ashura day where devout muslims mutilate themselves to show their fate. The cut their heads to bleed and they do it to their children too all in the name of their god.

I won't post any links but you can do a bing search for pictures. Absolutely barbaric.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (JUOKG)

396 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (bcbK

I backed him then, and never publicly criticized him. As time went on, it became harder, Mark.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (90T4r)

397 387 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019

*
*

Imagine if Kerry or Gore had been president. . . .
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (ClOmq)

The Onion ran an article about Gore practicing his 9-11 speech in his bathroom mirror.

Pretty thin satire but I'm damned sure Al thought he should have been in the Oval Office.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (bcbK8)

398 Just 31. Just a hair too old to enlist, I was told. I should have tried anyway.

---

I was 32 when I went back in the Army in 2001.

Posted by: SMH at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (RU4sa)

399 And for the coups-de-grass, inquire as to which tenet of islam exhorts its followers to become better people. If any.
________________

The koran verses that instruct them to kill (and maim) infidels assures them that that's what it takes to become a better person. Taking up arms and slaying infidels and stealing their lands in the name of allah guarantees muslims a place in heaven.

Their idea of "better" is different than ours. But it's raaaaacist and islamophobic to suggest our "better" is better!

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (k4dH2)

400 He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (bcbK

I don't want to even think about how 9/11 would've played out if Obama had been president.

Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (+aReV)

401 Bishop flipped 2 counties and almost a third that McCready won last year.

I can tell in the faces of the dims that are a little shell shocked this morn.

They can't pay this much attention to races next year and their fundraising is off to boot

If the GOP can pull off winning back the house, how much pressure will be put upon Mitch to ditch the filly

Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (AQBtr)

402 396 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (bcbK

I backed him then, and never publicly criticized him. As time went on, it became harder, Mark.
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:22 AM (90T4r)

Oh he's earned criticism, but I understand and approve his actions in the first couple of months.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (bcbK8)

403 And yes, conspiracy theories abound. It's prevalent all across the Arab world, seems to be baked in to the DNA of the culture. It predates Islam, which is a fairly young religion in the grand scheme of things. Look at all the insane stories they use to stoke their hatred of Jews. As a culture, they seem to go all-in on Crazy.
Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:16 AM (fc+t9)

A big factor that has always impacted their ruling classes is that Middle Eastern monarchies have always done succession differently than the European Monarchies. It has it good points, and bad. The Europeans always did it strictly by birth order, which made things predictable but meant that they often ended up with some incompetent gap toothed boob who had not a brain in his head in line for the throne (and usually named "Charles") The Middle Eatern model, going way way back before Islam, is to have a rule with a harem, multiple wives, dozens of sons - and then whoever is the toughest and the meanest and the best at figuring out how to kill off all of his siblings gets to be the next King, or Pasha, or whatever.

It works at getting a mean tough bastard on the throne most of the time; but it means their ruling families are constantly plotting and conniving on how to kill each other off, every day. It's just the way things are done.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (Kpl3J)

404 He took the gloves off.

---

lol

Our RoE would beg to differ.

Posted by: SMH at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (RU4sa)

405 Meanwhile in Japan, a woman who seduced and had sex with her 12 year old student, including pictures taken of them, has been given a 3-year suspended sentence because, as the judge put it "they were in love."

I'd link the article but its either at a NSFW japan culture site or just in Japanese.

But its one more step into depravity and normalizing pedophilia like Paul Joseph Watson's video talked about yesterday.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (KZzsI)

406 Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:06 AM (Kpl3J)

Absolutely agree. They are a completely different culture who apparently only respond to whomever shoves the boot up their arse most brutally. No skin off my teeth if this guy has some eggs to crack to make his omelette. I am not sure why it does not bother me with him, as opposed to other leaders like Stalin, but it doesn't. The enemy of my enemy, I guess.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (fc+t9)

407 I regret that we never got Zawahiri.

Never forget 9/11.

Posted by: gp, Decaffeinated By Popular Demand at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (mk9aG)

408 Found the video of the man trying to climb down on of the towers.
Not easy to watch. God bless his soul and give comfort to his loved
ones.

https://tinyurl.com/y3rcyzgo

Posted by: NOT THAT GUY at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (fad0M)

409 387
Imagine if Kerry or Gore had been president. . . .
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM (ClOmq)

===========

"We are dismantling our military today in response to this attack by global warming."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (iikV8)

410 > I loved Giuliani for telling him essentially to go f#ck himself and his money.

Yes. I disagree with Giuliani on many important policy issues, but I have never doubted that he genuinely loves America and wants the best for it, as he honestly sees it.

I am sorry that he did not make a serious run for the presidency against TFG.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (cB5if)

411 400 He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:20 AM (bcbK

I don't want to even think about how 9/11 would've played out if Obama had been president.
Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (+aReV)

*shudder*

Hillary would be preferable to him there @9-11 and yes I understand what I'm saying there.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (bcbK8)

412 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

He took the gloves off?

What goat fucking country is a smoking crater?

If he took any glove off, it was to give the House of Saud a skin to skin handy.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (0pc8A)

413 http://bit.ly/2ZUyRq7
*******
U S AIR FORCE USES F 15S AND F 35S TO BOMB ISIS ISLAND - YouTube

Posted by: Deep State is in Deep Shit at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (BqBId)

414 378 I often wonder what a President Trump would have done in the aftermath of 9/11. Has he ever opined on that?
Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:18 AM (7HtZB)

I don't think Trump is one who dwells in hypotheticals.

Posted by: Sooner at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (Fs5vw)

415 A couple of weekends after 9/11 my daughter had a soccer tourny in nova. Flights were still limited so it was eerie to see the empty skies, and everyone reacting to what few planes there were.

I flew about 2 weeks later and had the plane almost to myself, on what was normally a busy route (Orlando to Minneapolis).

Posted by: Ian S. at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (ZGrMX)

416 today would be a good day to watch "The Day of the Siege: September 11".

I cheered the family member who wore a "Some people did something" t-shirt and called out the Raghead Representative.

I live uptown from the WTC and for months a breeze from the south would make our eyes tear and sting and we'd cough. The Site burned for months and months.

Posted by: vivi at September 11, 2019 11:25 AM (11H2y)

417 401 Bishop flipped 2 counties and almost a third that McCready won last year.

I can tell in the faces of the dims that are a little shell shocked this morn.

They can't pay this much attention to races next year and their fundraising is off to boot

If the GOP can pull off winning back the house, how much pressure will be put upon Mitch to ditch the filly
Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (AQBtr)

==========

*clears throat*

Special elections are non-predictive of the next election. Never have been. Ever. This is not when they start.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (iikV8)

418 I was in Boston that day. I remember having my flight canceled, so I rented a car and I drove across country to SF.
With 3 other perfect strangers. We split the cost of the car.
Took us 4 days.
A trip I will never forget.

Posted by: navybrat, sometime commentater at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (w7KSn)

419 Japan can't afford to put the kibosh on any relationship that might lead to the birth of a child.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (oZ6kz)

420 > I regret that we never got Zawahiri.

As it is said, the wheels of justice sometimes grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

Zawahiri will face justice eventually, whether in this life or the next.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (cB5if)

421 Didn't know anyone murdered that day but flew out the day before with my 6 year old son to join my wife at her mother's funeral that week. Since then, that boy has deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

KungPow

Thank you is never enough, but thank you from the bottom of my heart to your son yourself and family for the sacrifice and service to our country.

Posted by: Floridachick at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (VGetS)

422 294 Air travel was a mess.

Lady I know was out of town, flight got diverted. Wound up stuck several days in Canada.
Posted by: simplemind at September 11, 2019 10:56 AM (Sbl62)

Had a co-worker, who kept getting bumped. Had to take an Amtrack train to Phoenix, tried to fly again, then, caught a Greyhound to DFW, tried to fly, but no dice.

Got frustrated, and rented a car, and drove the rest of the way to the East coast.

Took 10 days to get back from SanFran, where it usually should have taken 5hrs by air.

Posted by: Pinochet Air Tours Flt Attendant at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (zL/eJ)

423 Beautiful essay and tribute, Kris.

Posted by: ShainS -- Cancel #ErasureCulture at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (sFNa8)

424 I don't want to even think about how 9/11 would've played out if Obama had been president.
Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at September 11, 2019 11:23 AM (+aReV)

--------

Sanctions on SA, Iraq and A'stan. Lots of mellifluous but morose and supine speechifying. Millions of barrels ink spilled for Muslim apologism by the Left press. Then a negotiated end to sanctions, with large transfer payments to the sanctioned by the US.

Done.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 11:27 AM (E4gJk)

425
On that day, every American was a New Yorker.

If that building went down in my Omaha TODAY, at best half of New Yorkers would be Omahans.

Posted by: Sapwolf at September 11, 2019 11:27 AM (PRyLN)

426 Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:24 AM (Kpl3J)

We so often blame their religion, but the culture far predates the religion, and is probably why it was so easy for them to embrace, right?

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:27 AM (fc+t9)

427 > They can't pay this much attention to races next year and their fundraising is off to boot

They dumped tons of Soros cash into that election, just as they did with the Beta O'Cuck/Ted Cruz election.

Even Soros can't afford that degree of spending on a national level.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:27 AM (cB5if)

428 He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

How soon after 09/11/01 did he start-in with the "Religion Of Peace" bullshit?

I agree with his instincts in the first couple of weeks after the attack. Pretty much everything after that was a shit show. Certainly better than what Gore would have done, which is, essentially, surrender after a couple of ineffectual air strikes on AFG. But a shit show regardless.

Posted by: DocJ at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (DU2N9)

429 >>I was in Boston that day. I remember having my flight canceled, so I rented a car and I drove across country to SF.
With 3 other perfect strangers. We split the cost of the car.
Took us 4 days.
A trip I will never forget.

A work colleague of mine did the same thing. He was stranded in Minneapolis and the rental cars were just about gone so he buddied up with 3 strangers from near Baltimore and they got one of the last cars and drove home.

Posted by: JackStraw Expert On Stuff at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (ZLI7S)

430 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.
_________________

I agreed with the decision to blast the Taliban, who were actively aiding and abetting bin Laden in Afghanistan, but repeatedly insisting that "islam is a religion of peace" was a bridge too far.

Islam is not and never has been a religion of peace. That is a stupid and dangerous distortion, and those words should never have been uttered by an American president, especially not in the days following 9/11.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (k4dH2)

431 A trip I will never forget.
Posted by: navybrat, sometime commentater at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (w7KSn)

What a neat decision. Sounds memorable.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (H8QX8)

432 If that building went down in my Omaha TODAY, at best half of New Yorkers would be Omahans.

Not if they could immediately blame a conservative in a MAGA hat. See also the Oklahoma City bombing.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (ZGrMX)

433 > Sanctions on SA, Iraq and A'stan.

And by "sanctions" you mean "sending pallets of untraceable $100 bills to those countries, a few of which happened to fall off the truck along the way".

Those Martha's Vineyard palaces don't pay for themselves, you know.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:29 AM (cB5if)

434 2 questions: who is the man and who is the photographer. the man has been discussed. but who took the photo? where was he/she? what other photo's were taken? what was he thinking?

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at September 11, 2019 11:29 AM (Pg+x7)

435 my personal opinion was that W's initial reaction was good, then he got managed by his advisers

Posted by: vmom happy to have read a good book! at September 11, 2019 11:29 AM (+72t1)

436 420 > I regret that we never got Zawahiri.

As it is said, the wheels of justice sometimes grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

Zawahiri will face justice eventually, whether in this life or the next.
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (cB5if)

When's the last time he's showed his ugly face? Maybe he's dead by now.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:30 AM (7HtZB)

437 It's overblown by the people who have an agenda to puff up Islam as some great thing, but the Islamic world did have culture and art and science for a time - and then completely plunged into the dark ages and haven't come out since. It's been 700 or so years of nothing but bloodshed and terror after a short blossoming of, dare I say, "enlightenment."

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:30 AM (oZ6kz)

438 I am still in contact w some of my car mates.
I remember at one point we just had to pull over and have a good cry. I mean we were all sobbing. I don't think I have cried like that ever since.
And a prayer. One of the car mates was, until that day, a non believer.

Posted by: navybrat, sometime commentater at September 11, 2019 11:30 AM (w7KSn)

439 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.

He took the gloves off.

He fucked up a lot, but we could have had a worse President.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards

Yea, we could have had a worse president. But gloves off? Not a chance. We should have leveled that shit hole with every piece of ordinance we had, and then made more and level it again and tell the few survivors to never harbor these fucks again or we will return. American sensitivities' including W's would neverf allow that. I mean half the country a year later was bitching because we were making some jihadist fuck listen to loud music.

Posted by: Minnfidel at September 11, 2019 11:31 AM (mttA8)

440 CA has essentially banned independent contracting today. It's an Uber/Lyft bill but will apply to anyone in the state.

The madness never ends.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:31 AM (FiUMj)

441 I agreed with the decision to blast the Taliban, who were actively aiding and abetting bin Laden in Afghanistan, but repeatedly insisting that "islam is a religion of peace" was a bridge too far.

Islam is like a virus that was engineered to attack cultures with freedom of religion - it sneaks in as a religion, but the payload it deploys is a political system.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 11, 2019 11:31 AM (ZGrMX)

442 378
I often wonder what a President Trump would have done in the aftermath of 9/11. Has he ever opined on that?

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:18 AM (7HtZB)

It wouldn't surprise me if 9/11 was when Trump decided to run for President.

Posted by: davidt at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (m3tRO)

443 Bush did the right thing after 9/11 for about the same amount of time that Democrats felt they needed to pretend about that whole "God bless the USA" stuff after 9/11.

Posted by: Moron Robbie- Criminal acts are not loopholes at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (dSvao)

444 voted for Bush because of Gore, voted for Bush because of Kerry, voted for McCain because of Obama, Voted for Romney because of Obama.

I voted for Trump, because of Trump.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (90T4r)

445 And they are protected against illegal alien violence as well. Just rake in the cash from cheap labor while they shiv their countrymen.
Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 11:19 AM (U7k5w)

I would imagine that at least a few of the people who perished on 9/11 qualified as Manhattan elites. The terrorists were not interested in taking out ranches in Idaho or factories in Ohio. They want big, high profile targets in blue cities.

I think the elites are in denial about just how protected they are.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (d6Ksn)

446 Imagine if Kerry or Gore had been president. . . .
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at September 11, 2019 11:21 AM

I'd be up on the roof of the world, ma!

Posted by: James Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (0S+wE)

447 430 384 People, me included lately, have given President Bush a lot of shit over the years. But I have to admit, I would have done pretty much the same things he did for the first few hours/days/weeks after 9-11.
_________________

I agreed with the decision to blast the Taliban, who were actively aiding and abetting bin Laden in Afghanistan, but repeatedly insisting that "islam is a religion of peace" was a bridge too far.

Islam is not and never has been a religion of peace. That is a stupid and dangerous distortion, and those words should never have been uttered by an American president, especially not in the days following 9/11.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at September 11, 2019 11:28 AM (k4dH2)

I take it as the 'one war at a time' tactic. Bin Laden WANTED a war between Islam and the West. Never give the enemy what they want.

But no, Islam is about submission, not peace.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (bcbK8)

448 Looking back after 18 years, we should have nuked Afghanistan and made it clear that any future mass casualty attacks like 9/11 would be responded to in kind.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (7HtZB)

449 444 voted for Bush because of Gore, voted for Bush because of Kerry, voted for McCain because of Obama, Voted for Romney because of Obama.

I voted for Trump, because of Trump.
Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:32 AM (90T4r)

Pretty much says it all.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (H8QX8)

450 >>When's the last time he's showed his ugly face? Maybe he's dead by now.

A week or so back he was in the news.

Remember. Obama was negotiating to get him returned to Egypt.

Posted by: garrett at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (HAx77)

451 "Special elections are non-predictive of the next election. Never have been. Ever. This is not when they start.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (iikV

"

If the R's had lost they would be.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (pkvuH)

452 434 2 questions: who is the man and who is the photographer. the man has been discussed. but who took the photo? where was he/she? what other photo's were taken? what was he thinking?
Posted by: musical jolly chimp at September 11, 2019 11:29 AM (Pg+x7)

Watch the documentary "Falling Man". I think this is it (Part 1) but I don't have sound at work so I can't tell for sure. And it's been years since I last watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo6bIb_yiKs

Posted by: Kris at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (OyyDO)

453 I don't see any way to discuss it as art.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 11, 2019 09:36 AM (wzVKm)

I agree.

Posted by: kallisto at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (DJFLF)

454 It's been 700 or so years of nothing but bloodshed and terror after a short blossoming of, dare I say, "enlightenment."
Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:30 AM (oZ6kz)

The only peace and enlightenment is taquiyyah, they arrive on foreign shores with claims of peacefulness. They wait for their numbers to increase and then they revert to who they really are. It is a conquest theology, there is no peace in islam.

Posted by: CN at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (U7k5w)

455 In more than one board room, it is being discussed if it is too early to have 911 day sales.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (C1Lsn)

456 9/11 also gave us quite a few of the RINOs - people like AP who were always liberal but just got pissed about being attacked and latched onto the party that was clearly more upset about it and seemingly wanted to take the fight to them.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (oZ6kz)

457 I was asked by my pastor to speak about Revival as the theme for our prayer meeting tonight.

I was working at Goldman Sachs on 9/11, less than a mile from Ground Zero. Don't want to talk much about that, but the thing that I remember most was all the churches and synagogues that were full of questioning people in the days that followed. There was a moment where people were feeling unmoored from their previous belief, and wanted something more solid to hold on to in those uncertain times. It almost seemed like there could have been another Great Awakening that came from that, and for a short time everyone was a little nicer to each other in the streets of Manhattan. It became, for the first time, like a small town where everyone knew each other, and was asking how they were doing. That moment didn't last long, unfortunately.

While I'm incredibly moved, looking at Falling Man for the first time in years, I'm choosing to think about the time when the Big City acted like a Small Town in 2001. I miss that city.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at September 11, 2019 11:34 AM (iuFgi)

458 451 "Special elections are non-predictive of the next election. Never have been. Ever. This is not when they start.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (iikV "

If the R's had lost they would be.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (pkvuH)

=========

The media would say it, but they would lie.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:34 AM (iikV8)

459 In more than one board room, it is being discussed if it is too early to have 911 day sales.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM

If they do it will be the last penny I ever give them.

Posted by: Minnfidel at September 11, 2019 11:34 AM (mttA8)

460 456 9/11 also gave us quite a few of the RINOs - people like AP who were always liberal but just got pissed about being attacked and latched onto the party that was clearly more upset about it and seemingly wanted to take the fight to them.
Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:33 AM (oZ6kz)

It also gave us Andrew Breitbart, James Woods and Dennis Miller.

It was a wake up call to a sleeping nation.
Sadly, we got 'woke' instead.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:35 AM (bcbK8)

461 > but the Islamic world did have culture and art and science for a time

Compared to the every-man-for-himself barbaric tribal organization that came before, it was absolutely an improvement. It was even superior to the situation in most of Europe at that time.

The thing is, they stopped advancing, while the West did not.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at September 11, 2019 11:35 AM (cB5if)

462 The underlying reason for our kid glove treatment of the Saudis was because they held the U.S. economy hostage after 1973 because of OPEC and the power to turn off and turn on oil necessary for the economy to operate. Since the price was set by worldwide demand, any burp in the Middle East or Saudi displeasure would cause recessions or even depressions. The excess flow of petrodollars and trade deficits to finance this trade imbalance meant that a lot of folks in the U.S. benefitted from the cost and risk free rakeoff in processing funds and consequently investments made by the Saudis. Since the Saudis knew that their future incomes were assured by scarcity, they spent the money on investing in favorable politicians and institutions. The Chinese did the same thing from the Saudi playbook as has Qatar and Kuwait did something similar during the Iraq invasion.

Turns out that academics, politicians, think tanks, corporate management, financial institutions, and media, are pretty cheap to buy. The Saudis also planted a number of mosques to ensure that enough folks in the U.S. would constitute an interest group necessary to influence government policy. A Saudi prince helped finance Rupert Murdoch's Fox Empire and undoubtedly this had an effect on their coverage. Similarly, contributions and honest graft in employing relatives of politicians in lobbying, think tanks, non-profits, etc. led to a thorough distortion of our relationship with the Middle East.

What has changed is fracking has freed the U.S. from the economic threat of boycotts, warfare, and sanctions coming from the Middle East and thus from a strategic point--the U.S. is no longer subject to a veto in its foreign and economic policy. The tragedy is that we could have done this in the late 1970's as the technology existed for shale oil extraction then as well as additional drilling. What has happened though is that this reset cost a lot of folks money which is similar to that of the Chinese trade war going on today.

For example, the financial industry benefits tremendously from huge flows of currency coming in and out of the country and not so much if those flows diminish because they get a cut of the pie of the money going out and coming in. Corporations also get benefits by shifting money around from areas of high taxation to those with lower taxation along with reduced labor and regulatory costs. You can see why these folks want a global world--it works for them and in most countries in the world, the wealthy exist in a separate bubble that is isolated from the squalor, unemployment, crime, and misery. Many of our current elite would have no problem with that circumstance for Average Joe in the U.S. as long as they benefit. In essence, we have created through the multinational corps and globalization a new feudalism.

Nationalism was very weak during the Middle Ages, control of religion and trade flows of select goods often then were the province of the nobility who got the rakeoff from any of that within their territories. The nobility often had little if no common ties with the people within their borders and far too often looked at them as a resource to be plundered. Only religion at that time kept them in check. It was only by the common people uniting in desperation with ambitious kings that brought the aristocracy to heel which introduced another set of problems. The question became do you want many petty tyrants or an overriding one.

Posted by: whig at September 11, 2019 11:35 AM (hqUZK)

463 My understanding was that the Islamic world had culture and art and civilization courtesy of the civilizations that they conquered on their way out of the desert dump that they came out of. Once they figured that it was to their advantage not to murder and raze everyone and everything on their way they started absorbing all they stole.

Posted by: Floridachick at September 11, 2019 11:35 AM (VGetS)

464 Post #16 sums it up for me.
Fuck the Muslims.
There were no suicides on 9-11-2001.
They were dead no matter what and they made a choice as to how to die. They did not want to die.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (h8ae5)

465 Our elite's ties to the Saudis fucked us. In retrospect we should have bombed their old fields and told them worse would happen in the future.

Posted by: mrtmz at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (m/Gc2)

466 The media would say it, but they would lie.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:34 AM

Unpossible. That's not who we are!

Posted by: MSM journalists at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (0S+wE)

467 I'm not sure where to find that documentary.
Posted by: Jen the original at September 11, 2019 11:13 AM (t0g7x)

I wonder if it will be on today. That's one of the best shows about 9/11.

Posted by: Jordan61 at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (6ot+n)

468 In 2011 a Republican won a seat in Brooklyn. Then in 2012 Obama won easily.

These special elections don't mean shit.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (FiUMj)

469 I can't grok how a person can reach adulthood without understanding the nature of an enemy. Those people don't seem to have a concept of others who would gladly kill them. They don't even act as though they exist.

I just don't get it. Like so many other things in this life...
I should just enjoy being a Moron, I suppose. Ignorance is bliss.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #PurgeProgressivism at September 11, 2019 11:08 AM (HaL55)

They've been taught that there is no such thing as evil, no black or white, that every villain is somebody else's hero, etc.

Subjectivism is a pile of shit, it's a toxic philosophy that corrodes all it touches.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (J+mig)

470 While I'm incredibly moved, looking at Falling Man for the first time in years, I'm choosing to think about the time when the Big City acted like a Small Town in 2001. I miss that city.
Posted by: Darrell Harris at September 11, 2019 11:34 AM (iuFgi)

Well said.

I miss the feeling of national unity. The flags. And the leftists cowering in fear and hatred of the normies.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Relax, buy ammo and don't give one inch at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (bcbK8)

471 i am still angered and dismayed by the reaction of one of the 'hood denizens to my roommate on that day. (I was an 'urban pioneer' back then)

my roommate was getting out of her car after getting home from work, and one of the 'hood rats noticed that she looked upset. He asked her what was wrong, she replied, something along the lines of, 'just everything that happened today'

and his reply was, 'that's on them, yo'

i am so glad i got out of that neighborhood and that attitude. sick

Posted by: Retard Strength Trumps Smart Power at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (Rq5bA)

472 468 In 2011 a Republican won a seat in Brooklyn. Then in 2012 Obama won easily.

These special elections don't mean shit.
Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (FiUMj)

=========

Listen, there are narratives to build and statistics to misunderstand, here.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (iikV8)

473 >>Remember. Obama was negotiating to get him returned to Egypt.

Was it him, or was it the blind sheik? The one successfully prosecuted for planning the 1st twin towers attack.

In June or July 2012 the blind sheik held a press conference and announced he was going to attack the US embassy in Egypt and hold the Americans hostage in exchange for his dad. Aaand then all of those 9/11/12 attacks across the ME and a few other places, particularly the Benghazi consulate. One of the reasons Benghazi attack, abandonment and cover-up stinks so much.

Posted by: Lizzy at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (bDqIh)

474 Bill Whittle did a harrowing series a few years ago about how deeply Islamics had penetrated our government. I assume they were geared up well beforehand to push the "backlash" boogeyman and "religion of peace" bullshit after 9/11. Karen Hughes, Bush's doltish lackey, was the main cheerleader for it. It seemed like we were tripping over ourselves not to condemn or even mischaracterize Islam as the enemy from day one.

Complete, culturally suicidal idiocy driven by an agenda.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (H8QX8)

475 It's apropos but did anyone see the bloody images from the Ashura "festivities" yesterday? Crazy muzlim fucks cutting their own and little kids heads open. Da fuq? Yea, they seem reasonable.

Posted by: Minnfidel at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (mttA8)

476 Floridachick, there's definitely some truth to that. Al-Ghazali and Avicenna were Persian. Averroes was born in Andalusian Spain. Both areas had significant pre-Islamic culture.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (oZ6kz)

477 >>In June or July 2012 the blind sheik held a press conference

Ugh - the blind sheik's **SON**.

Posted by: Lizzy at September 11, 2019 11:38 AM (bDqIh)

478 Also in June 2012 Scott Walker won the recall. And in 2012 Obama easily won Wisconsin.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:38 AM (FiUMj)

479
the Islamic world did have culture and art and science for a time - and then completely plunged into the dark ages and haven't come out since.

----

And the people who do overblow it, tend to focus on the achievements of the Cordoban caliphate, where the Muslims had lots of contact with Christians and Jews as subject peoples, and where a lot of "free-thinking" type Muslims emigrated or were banished.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at September 11, 2019 11:38 AM (E4gJk)

480 Remember this, too - Disney/ABC has still refused to re-air or sell the docudrama "Path to 9/11"

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:38 AM (7HtZB)

481 >>Was it him, or was it the blind sheik? The one successfully prosecuted for planning the 1st twin towers attack.

It was Zawahiri. His brother (Egyt MoBro) was the one the Obama Admin was negotiating with.

Posted by: garrett at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (HAx77)

482 really impressive comments here.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (Pg+x7)

483 Special elections are non-predictive of the next election. Never have been. Ever. This is not when they start.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, The Winter Soldier at September 11, 2019 11:26 AM (iikV

there is always something to learn from the results of anything. Sometimes it is not evident until more results come to bear.

I can assure you the dims were on the horn last night to these counties, wondering wtf happened

Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (AQBtr)

484 willowed, but needs to have been published.

if only because the MFM has suppressed this photo since shortly after it was first published, when, IMHO, it ought to be out there all the time, as a remembrance of what was done to us, and how we have mostly failed in the years since then to avenge him and the rest of our citizens murdered that day.

Posted by: redc1c4 at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (QcCSi)

485 Jen the original and Jordan, the documentary is by the Naudet brothers, and I think is simply called "9-11".
They updated it in 2011 with interviews with some of the firefighters from the original effort.
They were the crew that was on-site and got the only film of the first plane strike

Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (W7IZQ)

486 I have no doubt that Zawahiri is living in Pakistan, under the direct armed protection of the Pakistani ISI. They're not going to slip and let us get him like we got Bin Laden, he's probably got a contingent of armed Pakistani Military guarding his residence day and night.

We talk about the Saudis, and some of them did provide the money for Bin Laden, but Al Qaeda and Bin Laden were always ops being run by the Pakistani Intelligence Services. And we always knew that.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:40 AM (Kpl3J)

487 The reason the NC9 doesn't mean much is because a year is an eternity in politics. But the MSM punditry class has to talk about something, so they'll talk about this for a week.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:40 AM (FiUMj)

488 Islam stagnates a civilization.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at September 11, 2019 11:40 AM (h8ae5)

489 >>It was Zawahiri. His brother (Egyt MoBro) was the one the Obama Admin was negotiating with.

JFC, how tight was Obama with the MB in Egypt???

Posted by: Lizzy at September 11, 2019 11:41 AM (bDqIh)

490 Thank you for analyzing this pic, Kris, in the brilliantly insightful way you do with all your art commentary. It is indeed art, and it needs to be seen remembered forever. Today is going to be a rough day. Much thanks to you and CBD for providing a bit of contemplation amid the swirling emotions.

Posted by: LizLem at September 11, 2019 11:41 AM (vUEru)

491 486 I have no doubt that Zawahiri is living in Pakistan, under the direct armed protection of the Pakistani ISI. They're not going to slip and let us get him like we got Bin Laden, he's probably got a contingent of armed Pakistani Military guarding his residence day and night.

We talk about the Saudis, and some of them did provide the money for Bin Laden, but Al Qaeda and Bin Laden were always ops being run by the Pakistani Intelligence Services. And we always knew that.
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:40 AM (Kpl3J)

Our relationship with Pakistan is an unfortunate relic from the Cold War & should be thrown under the bus. See also: our relationship with Turkey.

Posted by: josephistan at September 11, 2019 11:42 AM (7HtZB)

492 485 Jen the original and Jordan, the documentary is by the Naudet brothers, and I think is simply called "9-11".
They updated it in 2011 with interviews with some of the firefighters from the original effort.
They were the crew that was on-site and got the only film of the first plane strike
Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 11:39 AM (W7IZQ)

It is available on Amazon. 10 bucks.

Posted by: kraken at September 11, 2019 11:42 AM (90T4r)

493 Posted by: Minnfidel at September 11, 2019 11:37 AM (mttA

IIRC, there are Catholics in other countries who do something similar. Don't remember why the muzz do it, but the Catholics who do it do so as penance or a kind of tribute to Christ's suffering, or something like that.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:42 AM (fc+t9)

494 YD, that's also true, and the Cordoban culture wasn't actually that influential in the eastern Islamic world because of geography. Averroes was much more famous in the West than he was in the Islamic countries.

Posted by: Broseidon - New Work Computer, Same Work Ethic at September 11, 2019 11:43 AM (oZ6kz)

495 My mind went immediately to ways to prepare for that scenario if I ever work in the top floors of a sky scraper. That's how my mind works.
Posted by: Pig to man dreaming of lions at September 11, 2019 10:22 AM (KEA7I)

I knew a guy who went to work in one of those high-rise office towers in Calgary, long before 9/11. He went out and bought some rope, and rappelling gear, and kept it in a bundle under his desk.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 11, 2019 11:44 AM (jEgzt)

496 from the Naudet footage, the first strike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miA8Td4oNcY

Posted by: barbarausa at September 11, 2019 11:44 AM (W7IZQ)

497 I can't find the comment now, but to the gentleman who thinks he was selfish in racing to his pregnant wife, please, please stop doing that to yourself. You did the right thing, at great danger to yourself.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:45 AM (fc+t9)

498 465 Our elite's ties to the Saudis fucked us. In retrospect we should have bombed their old fields and told them worse would happen in the future.
Posted by: mrtmz at September 11, 2019 11:36 AM (m/Gc2)

The world is a complicated place. That would have been a feel good move, but if we in fact had done that, we would have destroyed Europe and sent them (and by extension ourselves) into a second Great Depression, Putin would have extended his control over the continent, and eventually Iran would have succeeded in its dreams of establishing the New Persian Empire.

We did in fact respond appropriately. It was the "nation building" nonsense afterwards where things went wrong.

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 11, 2019 11:45 AM (Kpl3J)

499 IIRC, there are Catholics in other countries who do something similar. Don't remember why the muzz do it, but the Catholics who do it do so as penance or a kind of tribute to Christ's suffering, or something like that.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:42 AM

There nuts as well then, at least they aren't cutting off clits and murdering infidels.

Posted by: Minnfidel at September 11, 2019 11:45 AM (mttA8)

500 Also in June 2012 Scott Walker won the recall. And in 2012 Obama easily won Wisconsin.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker - Not In My Purview at September 11, 2019 11:38 AM (FiUMj)
*******
Hey did you admit you were wrong about Trump Vs Bolton

Posted by: Deep State is in Deep Shit at September 11, 2019 11:46 AM (BqBId)

501 >>I knew a guy who went to work in one of those high-rise office towers in Calgary, long before 9/11. He went out and bought some rope, and rappelling gear, and kept it in a bundle under his desk.

Can't use it if you don't have it.

Posted by: garrett at September 11, 2019 11:47 AM (HAx77)

502 IRC, there are Catholics in other countries who do something similar. Don't remember why the muzz do it, but the Catholics who do it do so as penance or a kind of tribute to Christ's suffering, or something like that.

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:42 AM

I believe in the Philippines they do something like this - flagellate themselves and actually volunteers have themselves nailed to a cross.

Posted by: Cheri at September 11, 2019 11:49 AM (oiNtH)

503 Looking back after 18 years, we should have nuked Afghanistan and made it clear that any future mass casualty attacks like 9/11 would be responded to in kind.

I agree, just find the greatest concentration of power they had with the fewest civilians and nuke it. Tell everyone "this is what you get"

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:49 AM (KZzsI)

504 Unfortunately, you aren't getting a climbing rope much longer than 160 feet or so.

Posted by: garrett at September 11, 2019 11:50 AM (HAx77)

505 Just the fact that the left was denied the opportunity to bloviate with a thread of truth and reduced to lying thru their fangs is a victory in itself

Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 11:50 AM (AQBtr)

506 My guess is Trump will win NC 9th by even more than 12

McCready is a right winger compared to the remainder of the dim field

Posted by: REDACTED at September 11, 2019 11:53 AM (AQBtr)

507 "Our elite's ties to the Saudis fucked us." Yes. Most of the 9/11 a-holes were Saudis. The Saudis have a big role in spreading jihadi education worldwide too. I still remember the pic of W walking hand-in-hand with one of those a-holes.

Posted by: gp, Decaffeinated By Popular Demand at September 11, 2019 11:55 AM (mk9aG)

508
We so often blame their religion, but the culture far predates the religion, and is probably why it was so easy for them to embrace, right?

Posted by: Velvet glove, iron fist at September 11, 2019 11:27 AM (fc+t9)

Pagan culture was pretty brutal everywhere, not just the Mideast. Go back far enough in any culture and you find savages.

Even after conversion to Christianity, Europeans played pretty damn rough. But Christianity itself encouraged humans to move away from barbarism (although frequently its' prelates and princes did not). Becoming civilized is a hard slog and it's not being Western-hating to admit that Europeans frequently relapsed into pretty disgusting behavior. However, they were acting against the message of the Gospel. When Muslims engage in disgusting barbarism they are following the basic precepts of their faith.

Posted by: Donna&&&&V at September 11, 2019 11:56 AM (d6Ksn)

509 I agree, just find the greatest concentration of power they had with the fewest civilians and nuke it. Tell everyone "this is what you get"
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at September 11, 2019 11:49 AM (KZzsI)

Napalm. You really want to send a message, you put the scorched in scorched earth.

Muslims have some odd superstitions about fire. It'd send the message loud and clear.

Posted by: Cato, Collectivism Delenda Est at September 11, 2019 11:57 AM (J+mig)

510 I had no idea that 200 people jumped. I knew there were many but I guess I'd tried to ignore exactly how many because it seems so awful. The perspective you brought to this picture today, and the courage of the people who made the decision to jump, has moved me more than I can say. Thank you God for putting this image and our discussion of it in front of us today. It is vital that we remember every person who died that terrible day.

Posted by: shinypie at September 11, 2019 12:10 PM (Kz85k)

511 This image is in the same category as the iconic photo of the young Vietnamese girl being napalmed. It is a horrific moment of the human experience captured in time. To deconstruct, analyze, or dissect this imate, using the conventions of art critique, does a disservice to the victim in this image, to the monumental horror of that day and its aftereffects, and to the entire idea of art criticism.

Just my opinion as a trained, graduated, working, teaching artist.

Posted by: kallisto at September 11, 2019 12:40 PM (DJFLF)

512 Thank you. I wasn't expecting to read the perfect mashup of cogent artistic analysis and heartfelt, righteous reaction to 9-11, but here we are. Thank you.

Posted by: Patrick at September 11, 2019 01:11 PM (i4inS)

513 Horrifying picture. I only look at it on this date every year. I can't bear what he must have been thinking at this exact moment. May he Rest In Peace.

Posted by: Dansgirls at September 11, 2019 01:39 PM (V25ON)

514 Driving to work around 6:45, Pacific. The radio show I listened to at the time was discussing the crash of the first plane with a reporter on site. After a while, the reporter suddenly exclaimed that there was an explosion in the South Tower. He was not in a position to see the second plane approach. Someone else broke in to report that.

I cannot to this day recall my exact thoughts in that moment. I understood that we were being attacked and arrived at my office about ten minutes later. Our helpdesk was equipped with a wall of 36" CRT monitors to support our videoconferencing clients. Every one of them was tuned to a channel showing the events in New York.

One of our first customers was Cantor Fitzgerald, and we installed the videoconferencing systems in their WTC offices back in the '90s. It was a rough day, but we knew there were many more for whom it was a nightmare.

Posted by: Joe Kidd at September 11, 2019 02:04 PM (5WpEK)

515 Beautifully said. 9/11 was very personal for all of us, where we were when we heard, who we knew that was directly involved, and so on. I always think of this photo when thinking about this day. It says the most, so simply.

Posted by: steve walsh at September 11, 2019 03:57 PM (Jv7+F)

516 I can barely type through my tears. This photo breaks my heart in two every time I see it.

I always pray that Falling Man was given the largest wings in heaven and is now a fierce guardian angels of those still in the fight.

Posted by: MikeyLikey at September 11, 2019 04:46 PM (8umOr)

517 Sorry, angels should be singular. I told you I could barely type.

Posted by: MikeyLikey at September 11, 2019 04:47 PM (8umOr)

518 501: I've often thought about how it's strange that hi-rise buildings don't have escape chutes. They wouldn't have to reach to the ground; just long enough to bypass a few stories.

They use kevlar-type chutes to remove construction debris, so something similar -- with constrictive sections to slow descent -- that would allow a person to descend two or three stories, where they could reenter the building and continue down stairwells.

Posted by: red speck at September 11, 2019 04:51 PM (nrC0n)

519 421 Didn't know anyone murdered that day but flew out the day before with my 6 year old son to join my wife at her mother's funeral that week. Since then, that boy has deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.

KungPow

Thank you is never enough, but thank you from the bottom of my heart to your son yourself and family for the sacrifice and service to our country.
_______________________________________

Floridachick,

Thank you for your kind words.
As a naturalized citizen, I am very proud that he has chosen to serve this great country.

Posted by: KungPow at September 11, 2019 06:06 PM (7jrRr)

520 I once read and heard about how the The Tower card ina deck of Tarot Cards is like what happened on Sept 11th 2001 a bolt of lightning hits the tower and a person is shown falling off

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at September 11, 2019 07:04 PM (wGqjj)

521 This picture is both heart-breaking and life affirming.

Three things go through my head every time I see this particular photo.

First, I feel a monstrous, cold anger that instead of having a choice of life or death, he was forced into making a choice at to his manner of death because of the vile hatred of those who planned and carried out the attacks.

Second, I think about what it would take mentally, emotionally, and most important, spiritually to make that decision. He had to know without doubt that his death was a foregone conclusion. I agree with the conclusion that the decision to jump was in part an act of defiance.

Third, I look at him and see a person at peace. No flailing limbs, no twisting to see how close the ground was, never the slightest sign of panic. This may be projection on my part, but I see a man who whose soul was confident that while his earthly life was ending, he would be entering a better life.

Posted by: Mina at September 11, 2019 07:54 PM (nRoiV)

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