Sunday Morning Book Thread 07-21-2019

Library of Nicholas II Hemitage Museum 03.jpg
Library of Tsar Nicholas II, Hermitage Museum, St. Petersburg

Good morning to all you 'rons, 'ettes, lurkers, and lurkettes, wine moms, frat bros, crétins sans pantalon, acidheads, barrelheads, blackheads, blockheads, boneheads, and I'm not even through with the B's yet. Welcome once again to the stately, prestigious, internationally acclaimed and high-class Sunday Morning Book Thread, a weekly compendium of reviews, observations, snark, and a continuing conversation on books, reading, writing, and publishing by escaped oafs and oafettes who follow words with their fingers and whose lips move as they read. Unlike other AoSHQ comment threads, the Sunday Morning Book Thread is so hoity-toity, pants are required. Even if it's these pants and for the love of Mike, what kind of a mother would send her son to school dressed like that?? She might just as well have sewn a big "kick me" patch on the seat of his trousers. Poor kid probably grew up and joined a religious cult, or Antifa (same thing, really), if he ever survived high school.



Book Quote

Crazytown was repelled by facts and knowledge, as oil fled from water, but was fascinated by the absence of hard facts, since it provided vacant space in which to construct elaborate edifices of speculation.

--Neal Stephenson, Fall: or, Dodge in Hell

Best description of the internet, ever.

(h/t Sonny Bunch)


Copyright Infringement

I wonder how many of you moron authors have problems with unauthorized sales of your books?

Moron commenter mindful webworker pointed me to this article which pointed to this article about a Belarus-based book site that frequently does this, i.e. sell books without the author's permission. So if you're an author, this may be worth looking into.


It Pays To Increase Your Word Power®

In 18th century English, a CATCHFART was a servile, fawning sycophant -- so called because they would appear to walk so closely behind their masters.

Usage: "The Democratic Party and the catchfart media complex" sounds about right.




book pic 20190721a.jpg


Independent Bookstores, the Bulwark of Freedom

Last week, 'ette commenter 'Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily', posted a link to What is a ‘good bookstore’? that appeared in the The Hindu, that discussed independent bookstores from an international perspective. Elinor: "The writer is concerned with independent bookstores (there is international concern about the dominance of Amazon) and 'the ways in which independent bookstores nourish our reading and thinking lives.'

As Lewis Buzbee recounted in his 2006 classic, The Yellow-Lighted Bookshop: A Memoir, A History, bookstores have always been key sites of resistance to censorship. Buzbee, a former bookseller himself, writes: “For most of its history, the bookstore has remained free of the constraints of government regulation. Writers and publishers have often suffered under explicit censorship, but the bookstore itself, in part because it appears to be a mere store rather than a powerful force in society, has been ignored. Anonymity has its rewards.” Plus: “Because the bookstore has also remained — again for the good part — a mom-and-pop, little- or no-profit institution, it’s also remained free of the corporate graphs and margins.” These two things have combined to make the bookstore “a stronghold of the rights of free expression”.

These days, I do pretty much all of my reading on my tablet, but even so, I am becoming more and more convinced that the future of free speech and free thought is not with e-books, the internet, and the world wide web, but with independent bookstores and private libraries. The Silicon Valley tech giants have demonstrated the frightening ease with which it is now possible to manipulate text and images, and thus, perceptions -- even without the user's knowledge or prior consent. This is the sort of stuff that Orwell had nightmares about.



The Mysterious Disappearance of Agatha Christie:


Just click on the little blue tweety-bird on the upper right and follow the thread.


Moron Recommendations

From "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" by Mark Manson:

By not giving a fuck that you feel bad, you short-circuit the Feedback Loop from Hell; you say to yourself, "I feel like shit, but who gives a fuck?" And then, as if sprinkled by magic fuck-giving fairy dust, you stop hating yourself for feeling so bad.

Wanting positive experience is a negative experience; accepting negative experience is a positive experience. It's what the philosopher Alan Watts used to refer to as "the backwards law" -- the idea that the more you pursue feeling better all the time, the less satisfied you become, as pursuing something only reinforces the fact that you lack it in the first place.

In my life, I have given a fuck about many things. I have also not given a fuck about many things. And like the road not taken, it was the fucks not given that made all the difference.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 14, 2019 09:01 AM (kQs4Y)

From the Amazon blurb:

Manson makes the argument, backed both by academic research and well-timed poop jokes, that improving our lives hinges not on our ability to turn lemons into lemonade, but on learning to stomach lemons better. Human beings are flawed and limited—"not everybody can be extraordinary, there are winners and losers in society, and some of it is not fair or your fault." Manson advises us to get to know our limitations and accept them. Once we embrace our fears, faults, and uncertainties, once we stop running and avoiding and start confronting painful truths, we can begin to find the courage, perseverance, honesty, responsibility, curiosity, and forgiveness we seek.

There are only so many things we can give a f**k about so we need to figure out which ones really matter, Manson makes clear. While money is nice, caring about what you do with your life is better, because true wealth is about experience. A much-needed grab-you-by-the-shoulders-and-look-you-in-the-eye moment of real-talk, filled with entertaining stories and profane, ruthless humor, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F**k is a refreshing slap for a generation to help them lead contented, grounded lives.

The Kindle edition of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life is $12.99. It is the first of a two-part series, the second one being Everything Is F*cked: A Book About Hope.

___________

A couple of books dealing with various aspects of Islamic terrorism:

378 About that whole Islamic conquest thing, I can't recommend anything higher than Tom Holland's "In the Shadow of the Sword," a terrific portrait of the Middle East in late antiquity. Holland explains how the Arabs were able to beat down the Byzantines and conquer the Persians: Not only had the two legendary empires been bled out after continual warfare, but both had been greatly weakened by an outbreak of the plague shortly before the Arabs swept out of the desert. Things might have turned out very differently otherwise.

Holland also presents a wealth of information about early Islam that you won't find in Gibbon.

Posted by: outside Adjitator at July 14, 2019 03:23 PM (NvFiZ)

And the amazing part is how fast the Arabs were able to conquer their enemies:

Just like the Romans, the Arabs came from nowhere to carve out a stupefyingly vast dominion—except that they achieved their conquests not over the course of centuries as the Romans did but in a matter of decades. Just like the Greeks during the Persian wars, they overcame seemingly insuperable odds to emerge triumphant against the greatest empire of the day—not by standing on the defensive, however, but by hurling themselves against all who lay in their path.

Emphasis mine. In the Shadow of the Sword: The Birth of Islam and the Rise of the Global Arab Empire is available on Kindle for $10.99. It is on my TBR stack.

125 Just reread Raymond Ibrahim's "Sword and the Scimitar" since the War College blocked him from speaking. A Cogent, factual, explanatory, historically correct analysis of the conflict between Islam and the West. Read it and you'll know why the radical islamists don't want you to.
Posted by: Marcus T at July 14, 2019 10:18 AM (VkWRL)

Sword and Scimitar: Fourteen Centuries of War between Islam and the West is straight-up military history which

...chronicles the decisive battles that arose from this ages-old Islamic jihad, beginning with the first major Islamic attack on Christian land in 636, through the Muslim occupation of nearly three-quarters of Christendom which prompted the Crusades, followed by renewed Muslim conquests by Turks and Tatars, to the European colonization of the Muslim world in the 1800s, when Islam largely went on the retreat--until its reemergence in recent times. Using original sources in Arabic and Greek, preeminent historian Raymond Ibrahim describes each battle in vivid detail and explains how these wars and the larger historical currents of the age reflect the cultural fault lines between Islam and the West.

The book covers 8 crucial battles, 4 won by the Muslim armies and 4 by the West. The equal balance wasn't planned, that was just the way it worked out:

The majority of these landmark battles--including the battles of Yarmuk, Tours, Manzikert, the sieges at Constantinople and Vienna, and the crusades in Syria and Spain--are now forgotten or considered inconsequential. Yet today, as the West faces a resurgence of this enduring Islamic jihad, Sword and Scimitar provides the needed historical context to understand the current relationship between the West and the Islamic world--and why the Islamic State is merely the latest chapter of an old history.

I've just started this one this week. It's interesting, very thorough, and the forward was written by Victor Davis Hanson.


___________

377 I'm reading a fascinating book from the 1830s called "The Memorial of St. Helena." It was written by one of the guys who accompanied Napoleon to St. Helena. It is the daily life of the Emperor and the little French group who were there. Napoleon was treated shabbily and it was unnecessary. He seems very charming and even adorable (yes, it is an effort to rehabilitate him in history but I think he really was charming). The English people living there fell in love with him (except for the ones who were in charge of him). He has decided to learn English so he can read the newspapers. Right now the author is translating them to him. It's on gutenberg.org.

Posted by: microcosme at July 14, 2019 02:14 PM (B+xWY)

For some reason, I couldn't find it on gutenberg. But it is available on openlibrary.org and archive.org. For free. For you moron historians: the British had already done this one time before, exiling Nappy to Elba, but he managed to escape just a few months later. Why didn't they just execute the SOB while they had the chance?

___________


Books By Morons

Luna City 8 - cover.jpg


'Ette author Celia Hayes has just released the Kindle edition of Luna City: Behind the 8 Ball, which, as the title suggests, is the 8th of her Chronicles of Luna City series, about life in a small town in Karnes County, Texas, population 2,456, give or take. In this installment:

Fugitive former celebrity chef Richard Astor-Hall is beset with travails attempting to build a new life: an old girlfriend turns up as the bride at a lavish wedding, the family of his pet cat and cooking partner (Captain Kitten in the Kitchen) turn up and demand that the cat be returned ... and then there is the matter of the long-missing artistic treasure, the Gonzaga Reliquary, which may still be hidden somewhere around the old Gonzalez family home ranch ... Folklore, home folks and gentle comedy about in this eighth venture to the most perfect small town in Texas

$2.99 on Kindle. Print editions should be evailable shortly, later on this month.




book pic 20190721b.jpg

___________

So that's all for this week. As always, book thread tips, suggestions, bribes, insults, threats, ugly pants pics and moron library submissions may be sent to OregonMuse, Proprietor, AoSHQ Book Thread, at the book thread e-mail address: aoshqbookthread, followed by the 'at' sign, and then 'G' mail, and then dot cee oh emm.

What have you all been reading this week? Hopefully something good, because, as you all know, life is too short to be reading lousy books.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 09:00 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Hello bibliophiles and -phappers!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:01 AM (kQs4Y)

2 Tolle Lege

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:01 AM (BbGew)

3 I take too much joy in this simple act.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:01 AM (kQs4Y)

4 I though summer time was for reading, haven't touched a book in two weeks.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:02 AM (BbGew)

5 Good morning in the golden age.

Posted by: Marooned at July 21, 2019 09:03 AM (8hRlF)

6 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. Hope everyone had a great week of reading. Since it's been hotter than the surface of the sun around here, reading was a pleasant, non-sweaty activity.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:03 AM (bmdz3)

7 PlaidStallyns!!!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:03 AM (kQs4Y)

8 "So if you're an author, this may be....."

The suspense is killing me!

Posted by: Tami at July 21, 2019 09:04 AM (cF8AT)

9 When I'm elected president of these United States, my first official act will be to passionately kiss every female in the country on their humid, open mouth. I'll even kiss some of them queers in drag cuz I'm an inclusive and damned hip kind of guy.

Posted by: Biden, on living room floor sorting jelly jars full of buttons at July 21, 2019 09:04 AM (tt1wG)

10 booken morgen horden!
thank you OM for the ONT rescue!

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:05 AM (dm05u)

11 'Morning Readers!

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:06 AM (MVjcR)

12 "Never force the back; if it does not readily yield, it is too tightly or strongly lined".

Too true!

And speaking of spines, I love that dual row of old books.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:07 AM (kQs4Y)

13 I always read before falling asleep. For years I read 100+ books/year. Then I discovered Ace and the ONT. My time on Ace has drastically reduced the number of books I'm able to read!

Posted by: Ladyl urgent prayer needed for Laura and Allison at July 21, 2019 09:07 AM (TdMsT)

14 So yesterday I posted 3 of my favorite Horde series that are on Kindle Unlimited since there is a KU new subscription deal now
linky in nicky

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:07 AM (dm05u)

15 I haven't done any reading this week. Trying not to overtax my brain.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:08 AM (MVjcR)

16 Late getting ready for church and I'm mostly just posting to get this in my name field.

Yay books and y'all have fun.

Posted by: Moron Robbie - 2nd Chronicles 14:7 at July 21, 2019 09:08 AM (+0ddm)

17 Didn’t I link this before? Sebastian Gorka on C-SPAN’s After Words, discussing his book “Why We Fight: Defeating America’s Enemies – With No apologies” (which I liked):

https://www.c-span.org/video/?456973-1/after-words-sebastian-gorka

The subtitle is a slap against the 8 years of Obama apology tours.

The most unsettling story was his father’s group of underground patriots gathering intelligence on the Soviet regime in Hungary and passing it on to interested Western parties. Alas, the people most interested were MI6 – specifically Kim Philby. Philby betrayed the key players to Moscow and the Hungarian secret police.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:09 AM (kQs4Y)

18 How to Open a New Book

* Make sure that your Kindle is charged and connected to the internet.
* Use the search function in your browser to find your book.
* Choose "Kindle Version"
* Press 1-Click to purchase
* Wait for the download to complete.
* Start reading.

Posted by: Blue Bird of F'ing Joy at July 21, 2019 09:09 AM (lD3vL)

19 15 I haven't done any reading this week. Trying not to overtax my brain.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:08 AM (MVjcR)
------

In this weather, you could overheat it!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:09 AM (kQs4Y)

20 Eris!

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:10 AM (MVjcR)

21 Plaidstallions omg
70s, right?

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:10 AM (dm05u)

22
In this weather, you could overheat it!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:09 AM (kQs4Y)
-------
Ain't that the truth! Staying cool?

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:11 AM (MVjcR)

23 "The Silicon Valley tech giants have demonstrated the frightening ease with which it is now possible to manipulate text and images, and thus, perceptions -- even without the user's knowledge or prior consent. This is the sort of stuff that Orwell had nightmares about."

OM, I touch on this in one of my comments. I didn't want to start a rant, so I'll just say that I, too, am concerned and agree.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:11 AM (bmdz3)

24 Since yesterday have been filling the real time rebroadcast of the Apollo 11 mission, it's at 119:39hrs, lift off from the moon is at 124:22
https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/mobile/

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:11 AM (BbGew)

25 And here's Mollie Hemingway discussing her new book on the Kavanaugh hearings:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?462197-1/after-words-mollie-hemingway-carrie-severino

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:11 AM (kQs4Y)

26 I put Fritz Leiber aside for the moment and am reading "Justice on Trial". I was not following politics during the Bork confirmation battle, so if nothing else, I learned about that. Pretty good so far.

Posted by: roamingfirehydrant at July 21, 2019 09:12 AM (THS4q)

27 I believe Agatha Christie's "lost days" occurred when her mother died and her husband left her.

I ve read Christie's autobiography many times--it's excellent--much better than her fiction--but she does not say where she went during the lost days.

Posted by: Ladyl urgent prayer needed for Laura and Allison at July 21, 2019 09:12 AM (TdMsT)

28 Thanks, OM - for the plug and the link!
(And for those who want to get caught up on the Luna City chronicles, the first six volumes are available in a pair of compendium e-books. Print versions available around the end of the year.)

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at July 21, 2019 09:13 AM (xnmPy)

29 I read House of Assassins by Larry Correia. This is the second book in the Saga of the Forgotten Warrior series following Son of the Black Sword. This is a typical Correia action-packed fantasy with wizards to battle and monsters to slay. Great escape read. Now to wait another year for the next book in the series to appear.

I also read Spy Master by Brad Thor. Typical of Thor's thrillers, there is a lot of action as Scot Horvath tries to prevent a Russian invasion of the Baltics. One of the reasons I like Thor's novels is that the scenarios in his books are highly probable of happening in today's world. I'm on the library's waiting list for his latest, Backlash.

Posted by: Zoltan at July 21, 2019 09:13 AM (0Bfo6)

30 I take too much joy in this simple act.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes



Joy is good, no matter what Alan Watts says, especially for you darlin'.

Good morning people of the books.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:13 AM (fuK7c)

31 Staying cool?
---
My inner coolth protects me against meltdowns.

But yeah, it's supposed to get into the triple digits today, at least the heat index.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:13 AM (kQs4Y)

32 The Silicon Valley tech giants have demonstrated the frightening ease with which it is now possible to manipulate text and images, and thus, perceptions -- even without the user's knowledge or prior consent. This is the sort of stuff that Orwell had nightmares about.

==

Moron Hans Schantz's Hidden Truth series tackles that.

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:14 AM (dm05u)

33
My inner coolth protects me against meltdowns.

But yeah, it's supposed to get into the triple digits today, at least the heat index.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:13 AM (kQs4Y)
------
I need some of that inner cool. Hey - does readin the book thread count as reading?

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:14 AM (MVjcR)

34
I’m midway through Clifford Simak’s “All Flesh Is Grass” (1965) in which the inhabitants of the small Midwestern town of Millville wake up to find themselves enclosed under an invisible dome. It’s the handiwork of aliens, but unlike most stories, they come not from space but from another dimension. This is decades before King’s “Under the Dome”.

Simak was not the misanthrope King is. He always had compassion for his characters and for small town life, warts and all. I think he is one of our more literary SF writers and the tale proceeds at a leisurely, occasionally dreamlike pace.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:14 AM (kQs4Y)

35 Learning "How to Open a New Book" was a thrilling rite of passage in the second or third grade when we got our first actual textbooks.

Posted by: sinmi at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (A5IVt)

36 Morning everyone!

Stormy weather here in Michigan. We had a brief power outage yesterday that caused enough of a flicker to kill our ageing modem. New one arrives Tuesday, but until then I'm using my phone as a mobile hotspot.

Crazy the tech we have these days.

Closing in on the end of Volume V of the Book I Love to Hate, but the hate is weak right now. I'm actually learning a few things about the Muslim conquest of Spain, which is nice.

My soon-to-be-heavily edited next book is also moving forward, though I doubt I'll make my self-imposed deadline of getting the first draft done by mid-August. Mid-September is quite realistic, though.

Last night I wrote the bg reveal (in a chapter I cunningly titled "The Big Reveal") where one character tells the other "yes, I'm a vampire and here's what that means."

So that's out of the way and I feel the need for a bit of an action sequence to pick things up and keep it all moving. Maybe a sniper atop the Mackinac Bridge?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (HIUfw)

37 Read "The Revenant" by Michael Punke. It's the story of Hugh Glass who in August 1823 was horribly mauled by a momma grizzly near present day Lemmon, South Dakota while working as a fur trapper for the Rocky Mountain Fur Company. Two men, John Fitzgerald and a teenager, possibly Jim Bridger, were left behind to bury him when he died. The two men abandoned him and took most of his gear including his rifle. But he didn't die and his survival is one of the epic tales of the old west.

It was an ok read. There is a lot of speculation about Glass, but not much is really known about him. I felt Punke included too much fiction, but at least he admits it.

His book is the inspiration for the 2015 Leonardo DiCaprio movie. It bears little resemblance to what is known or thought to be known about Glass's experience. These were real people and I hate it when hollywood mangles their lives just for entertainment.

Posted by: Jake Holenhead at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (TDyHc)

38 I love those old, beautiful spines in the picture. Works of art that denote literary gems. Reminds me of the local library, adult section, when I was a mere lad.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (bmdz3)

39
"Never force the back; if it does not readily yield, it is too tightly or strongly lined".



That hasn't been my experience!

Posted by: Shep! at July 21, 2019 09:17 AM (2EMYr)

40 Why didn't they just execute the SOB while they had the chance?

Well, they did poison Nappy once he got to St. Helena.

More deniability that way.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 09:18 AM (I2/tG)

41 The picture of the old books above is apropos. I finished the biography of N.C. Wyeth and about half of those book jackets were illustrated by him.

I had read one bio of him years ago so I knew the basic story but this author (Michaelis) gives it a much more novelistic arc with foreshadowing and themes and such.

N.C.'s greatest creation is still Andrew, whom I revere above Michelangelo, but it was still fascinating to inhabit their world.

My only real problems is not with the author but with the Wyeths. They were stingy with names and kept using the same ones, or then marrying Pyles and bringing the same Pyle names in. So there's a brother Nat and a son Nat and maybe some Nathaniels and the three major women in his life are Carol, Carolyn, and Caroline. Sheesh.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:19 AM (fuK7c)

42 His book is the inspiration for the 2015 Leonardo
DiCaprio movie. It bears little resemblance to what is known or thought
to be known about Glass's experience. These were real people and I hate
it when hollywood mangles their lives just for entertainment.

Posted by: Jake Holenhead at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (TDyHc)

---
Whoa, wait - you're saying Hollywood screws up adaptations???

I think the worst one I've ever seen is the awful botch they made of Evelyn Waugh's The Loved One. The two share a title and some character names. Otherwise, completely unrelated.

Ironically, the hideous adaptation ended up making Waugh's point about how much Hollywood sucks.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:20 AM (HIUfw)

43
Well, they did poison Nappy once he got to St. Helena.



Aneleh was I ere I saw Helena.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2019 09:20 AM (oVJmc)

44 Oh, and it was the screen debut of Paul Williams. Weird!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:20 AM (HIUfw)

45 Eris, the only Simak I can remember off hand is Way Station. Iirc it was rather melancholy - part of the "humans are doomed to blow themselves up" genre

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:21 AM (dm05u)

46 I'm reading the Marines - Crimson World Series right now. Good Heinlein-before-he-went-crazy type storytelling. Sort of like Starship Troopers, too. Lots of action on ground, in the air and in space.
Plenty of political intrigue and the occasional shot at PC.
I don't recall who here recommended, but it's fun summer reading. Thanks.

Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:21 AM (i6sQg)

47 that Neal Stephenson quote as regards the internet may be true, but I was disappointed with him portraying 'drive through America' as 'Ameristan', full of religious zealots in Fall.
1 guess as to which religion he dumped all over.
And if he decries misinformation in the internet, it is usually the leftist definition of misinformation. Which usually translates as 'uncomfortable facts'.
Oh and also there of course had to be a trans character shoehorned into Fall...

Posted by: Retard Strength Trumps Smart Power at July 21, 2019 09:21 AM (RKQ/v)

48 38 I love those old, beautiful spines in the picture. Works of art that denote literary gems. Reminds me of the local library, adult section, when I was a mere lad.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:15 AM (bmdz3)

#metoo

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:21 AM (dm05u)

49 Brodart also recommends breaking in a new book as shown in the illustration. They also sell a tool called a "bone folder" to help smooth down the pages.

http://www.shopbrodart.com/search/?q=bone%2bfolder

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2019 09:22 AM (sdi6R)

50 My problem with Thor and Correia is they decided to go never Trump and we're vocal about it. Once an author or actor opens their trap it turns me off. It's always there and ruins my enjoyment of otherwise good works....

Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (UUBmN)

51 My copy of Chapman's "Piloting and Seamanship" arrived this week. Aside from its reference value, it could substitute for a sea anchor if needed. I have no actual need for the book; it's not like I'm going to start sailing at my age. But the information is of interest and I've heard about the book most of my life. Buying it was pure indulgence. The navigation section is the most interesting so far.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (bmdz3)

52 The How to Open a New Book illustration took me back over 60 years ago to elementary school in Wisconsin. We had to do that if we were issued a new textbook.

Posted by: Zoltan at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (0Bfo6)

53 Reading 'Churchill Walking with Destiny'. At over a thousand pages, it is an extremely detailed look at his life, perhaps everything you ever wanted to know about Churchill and more. Andrew Roberts had access to far more source material than the many previous biographers which explains its length. Given that Churchill is one of the half dozen most important men in history, I am happy to dedicate the time to it. I have seen several interviews of Roberts and he seems to be genuinely enamored with Churchill and realizes how he did so much to save Western Civilization.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 21, 2019 09:24 AM (KnT4m)

54 I love many of Andrew Wyeth's paintings, but this is one of my favorites:

http://www.swoyersart.com/andrew_wyeth/dr_syn.htm

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (kQs4Y)

55
51 My copy of Chapman's "Piloting and Seamanship" arrived this week. Aside from its reference value, it could substitute for a sea anchor if needed. I have no actual need for the book; it's not like I'm going to start sailing at my age. But the information is of interest and I've heard about the book most of my life. Buying it was pure indulgence. The navigation section is the most interesting so far.
Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (bmdz3)
------
Hi JTB! You will love Chapman!!

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (MVjcR)

56 40
Why didn't they just execute the SOB while they had the chance?



Well, they did poison Nappy once he got to St. Helena.



More deniability that way.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 09:18 AM (I2/tG)

---
Napoleon had committed no crime.

Yes, he killed lots of people, but all rulers do that. He wasn't technically a usurper, either, since he was simply a soldier who continued to serve France and eventually overthrew the Republic.

He was then accepted as legitimate by all the royal houses of Europe, who married his relations in the time-honored way.

Executing royalty simply for losing a war was a precedent exactly no one wanted to set. So exile and a quiet death.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:26 AM (HIUfw)

57 Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (bmdz3)
------
You might be interested in the book "Seamanship in the Age of Sail".

Copiously illustrated, it shows the reader all aspects of sailing the big square-riggers of the past.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 09:26 AM (iB1oa)

58 I just finished the book "Meet me in Atlantis" by Mark Adams. Quick read, but it explores the origin of the Atlantis and the searches for The city over the years.

Posted by: Picric at July 21, 2019 09:27 AM (nonGu)

59 I love many of Andrew Wyeth's paintings, but this is one of my favorites:


Hmm. That seems rather in the spirit of his father.

There's an N.C. exhibit at the Brandywine this summer and I intend to get down to it.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:27 AM (fuK7c)

60 50 My problem with Thor and Correia is they decided to go never Trump and we're vocal about it. Once an author or actor opens their trap it turns me off. It's always there and ruins my enjoyment of otherwise good works....
Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 09:23 AM (UUBmN)
---
I'm enjoying the series NOS4A2 and looked up Joe Hill. Went to his Twitter account (my first mistake) and he said Trump rallies are essentially Klan meetings.

Well, he is Stephen King's son, so...

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:28 AM (kQs4Y)

61 24 Since yesterday have been filling the real time rebroadcast of the Apollo 11 mission, it's at 119:39hrs, lift off from the moon is at 124:22
https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/mobile/

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:11 AM (BbGew)


Amazing. Yeah, listen to that and think it's faked. Gees. Thanks Skip.

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at July 21, 2019 09:29 AM (l0HIT)

62 "... the future of free speech and free thought is not with e-books, the internet, and the world wide web, but with independent bookstores and private libraries."

Which is exactly why I have a library of about 4000 volumes that I can physically touch.

Also-- I have noticed that archive.org is now in the semi-censoring business. You can still check out "objectionable" stuff but you cannot preview a lot of books-- especially old children's books-- that, e.g., suggest that boys and girls will grow up to have different jobs. I kid you not.

Posted by: Marica at July 21, 2019 09:29 AM (SDvjO)

63 54 I love many of Andrew Wyeth's paintings, but this is one of my favorites:

http://www.swoyersart.com/andrew_wyeth/dr_syn.htm
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (kQs4Y)


The Farnsworth Museum in Rockland, Maine, is well worth visiting. It includes many of all the Wyeth's best work, and a special exhibition of Andrew Wyeth work is going on right now. If you love maritime art--this is a fantastic museum.

Posted by: Ladyl urgent prayer needed for Laura and Allison at July 21, 2019 09:30 AM (TdMsT)

64 never understood Correia going never trump
was it some kind of Mormon peer pressure thing?

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:30 AM (dm05u)

65 Whoa, wait - you're saying Hollywood screws up adaptations???
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:20 AM (HIUfw)

Yes they do. Often times badly.

Posted by: Jake Holenhead at July 21, 2019 09:30 AM (TDyHc)

66 Independent Bookstores, the Bulwark of Freedom

Not any more.

Powell's Books in Portland:

Portland author Blake Nelson is facing a backlash over his new book.

For longtime followers of the local literary scene, that might come as a surprise. Nelson made his name writing young adult novels, and won praise for his realistic depictions of teenage angst. Several of his novels were turned into movies and TV series, most notably Paranoid Park, which was adapted by Gus Van Sant in 2007.

But his latest book, The Red Pill, represents a shift in both genre and content.

The title is a reference to the online anti-feminist movement which divides men into "alpha" and "beta" males and has political associations with the alt-right. The plot spans the year prior to Trump's election through his first year in office, and centers around a "divorced, liberal-minded" man who begins taking dating advice from his Trump-supporting brother-in-law, and gradually gets drawn further into right-wing ideology.


So, he did a reading at Powell's, as many authors do.

While Nelson read to about a dozen people inside the store, a small group-including some of the bookstore's employees-gathered outside near the entrance, handing out flyers describing the "red pill dating strategy" as "misogynistic" and accusing Nelson of being "openly racist, homophobic and transphobic" on social media.

Brianna Bonham, a Powell's employee who organized the protest, says the book reads as an espousal of the "red pill" philosophy.

"If a person is going to be using a name such as 'the red pill,' which is known for hateful rhetoric, and has recorded themselves saying they are part of the red pill movement," Bonham said, "that's enough to align them with a hateful movement that varies from just disrespecting women to rape. That's a dangerous ideology to support."


I guess we should be grateful that they didn't shout the author down at the reading, although I'm sure that's coming for unacceptable books.

But Powell's has started doing "Drag Queen Story Hour", so at least there's that.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 09:30 AM (I2/tG)

67 My interest in colonial and early American history, always present, has been growing lately. I have a number of books coming about travellers on the frontier of mid-1700s to early-ish 1800s. These are mostly journals and diaries, seldom meant for publication, which, in my mind, means they are more likely to be honest. (That may be wishful thinking on my part.) Besides the actual language, they illustrate the provisions, use, resources and social attitudes of the period. The research on which books to order was lengthy and pleasant.

While many are available online, inexpensively, I want physical copies. I don't trust Amazon, Google or mobs with technical access to be able to manipulate or eliminate books they 'disagree' with. A few years ago I might have found that concern to be paranoid. Not any more.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:31 AM (bmdz3)

68 I'm on book 4 of Vince Milam's Case Lee series someone recommended here. It's okay. The style of the dialogue takes a bit of getting use to. It's like a secret language that leaves a lot unsaid. That said, I am reading book 4 so it's not awful.

Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (UUBmN)

69 Those pants are fine. I would wear them with a macrame belt to barbeque in my backyard.

Posted by: early 70s freaked at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (UdKB7)

70 I watched a interesting documentary on amazon prime based on this book:

Early Islamic Qiblas: A survey of mosques built between 1AH/622 C.E. and 263 AH/876 C.E.
By Dan Gibson

The theory is Petra not Mecca was the original prayer direction of the Mohammadans. His evidence is the prayer direction of early Mosques, lack of match between Quran and Meccan geography, and the Second Islamic Civil War.


Posted by: Dread0 at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (Bptbo)

71 I love many of Andrew Wyeth's paintings, but this is one of my favorites:

http://www.swoyersart.com/andrew_wyeth/dr_syn.htm
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (kQs4Y)

He's been at sea too long.

Posted by: Jake Holenhead at July 21, 2019 09:33 AM (TDyHc)

72 JTB, I grew up with Chapman's. It was instrumental in shaping me in a lot of ways. And it carried over to the next generation - Red, Jr. is a licensed marine Deck Officer.
If you want to know something nautical, start with Chapman's.

Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:33 AM (i6sQg)

73 If Hillary runs again, will she publish a book before the election?

Posted by: Picric at July 21, 2019 09:33 AM (nonGu)

74 It is hotter than the hinges of Hell out there.

Can't wait for Labor Day and the unofficial end of Summer.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 09:33 AM (sGotD)

75 66 now I wanna read it but not at my local library grr

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (dm05u)

76 Currently reading "The Man From The Train", by Bill James (the baseball guy). About the man who is likely America's most prolific serial killer (100+ victims). He killed ~1898-1912, near train tracks, in areas with minimal / no police presence, entire families in one go, with arson, and other markers.

Great research, but could do without the meandering asides that have little to do with the crime series.

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (3JbJY)

77 hiya

Posted by: JT at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (arJlL)

78 34

Can't recall title but there was the same idea in a 30s story where NYC was accidentally sealed for like 50 years under a man made force field, then reopened. Gripping and sad story.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (tt1wG)

79 The theory is Petra not Mecca was the original
prayer direction of the Mohammadans. His evidence is the prayer
direction of early Mosques, lack of match between Quran and Meccan
geography, and the Second Islamic Civil War.







Posted by: Dread0 at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (Bptbo)

---
What's the name of the video? When I finish Gibbon I'm going back to a set of essays on early Islam that also challenges the conventional narrative.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (HIUfw)

80 I read Famous Sheriffs & Western Outlaws by William MacLeod Raine. Originally published in 1929, it was a collection of articles written by Raine (a newspaper reporter) at the turn of the 20th C. He gives what seems to be a pretty even-handed accounting of some incidents that occurred in what was rapidly becoming the "Old West" of the 1870s, such as OK Corral, the Lincoln County War and the Tanto Basin War. Some of the articles are more interesting than others and a couple don't quite fit the theme. One thing that I learned was that the gunfighters tended to alternate between outlawry and being lawmen as their mood and circumstances dictated. Rating = 3.75/5.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at July 21, 2019 09:35 AM (5Yee7)

81 Weasel! Kindred spirits with Chapman's!

Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:35 AM (i6sQg)

82 I am now reading a Moron recommendation, though I think it may have come up in a non-book thread.

God: a Biography.

It removes the theology (we're not to care about whether it's "true") and looks at God as a literary figure. What is he doing at the creation, why is he fucking with people? I'm not very far in, he's messing with Abraham now, but I'm quite enjoying it.

My only disappointment is that I'd hoped for this approach to Jesus, but this God is Jewish bible only.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:35 AM (fuK7c)

83 I don't trust Amazon, Google or mobs with technical access to be able to manipulate or eliminate books they 'disagree' with. A few years ago I might have found that concern to be paranoid. Not any more.
Posted by: JTB

---

Same here. Some of my colleagues are a bit surprised to find out that I have an actual library in my abode.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 21, 2019 09:36 AM (qup4B)

84 65 Whoa, wait - you're saying Hollywood screws up adaptations???
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:20 AM (HIUfw)

Yes they do. Often times badly.
Posted by: Jake Holenhead at July 21, 2019 09:30 AM (TDyHc)
________

After Hollywood had made it into a movie, P G Wodehouse wrote an introduction to his Damsel in Distress. Very funny, about the studio's turning it over to "the manglers", and what they did.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 09:37 AM (VaN/j)

85 Speaking of the interwebs, I perused that fat creature who wanted his SCOTUS waxed and whoo boy! what a freak show. None of it made any sense in the real world.

The book I am so looking forward to reading in the near future is "Nukes and Scimitars or How Muzzies Learned to Love the Bomb and Enter Paradise".

Oh, the horror.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 21, 2019 09:37 AM (Z+IKu)

86 "The Lanson Screen" by Leo Zagat.

Posted by: doomed at July 21, 2019 09:38 AM (tt1wG)

87 Napoleon has to have been highly charismatic. It wouldn't surprise me to see him portrayed as charming.

Sounds like my sister could use that not giving a fuck book. I might get it for her as a "joke" Christmas gift that is secretly for real.

Personally, my approach to bad situations is to look for the humor. There's this one recurring meeting at work that is very annoying for a variety of reasons, and I'm the one who represents my office there. I could spend a lot of time blowing my top, but instead, I focus on the entertainment value. A bunch of engineers arguing is usually pretty entertaining (despite what you might assume, quite a few of us do have a way with words, which really adds to it) anyway, but at this meeting, I also look for the humor in the frequent last-minute cancellations and poor technical pre-coordination (particularly inapt given the whole purpose of this meeting is technical coordination. They like to come in with a software solution to a hardware problem which they haven't cleared with software, which is in my office, and now I just raise an eyebrow very slowly and dryly recommend they clear that with the software control board, my tone of voice clearly implying they won't be succeeding).

Speaking of engineering and moon landing. Exploration Mission 1 is still on track for October 2020 launch.

Posted by: Mrs. Peel at July 21, 2019 09:39 AM (rWZ8Y)

88 Hmm...catchfart gives me an idea...

Posted by: Little Lupe at July 21, 2019 09:39 AM (EgshT)

89 While I love small book stores, too many of them are run by hard left extremist freakies and its almost painful to go into some of them with the decor and people working there, the patchoulli stench, and the books they like to feature up front. My favorite ones are run by people who just love books and selling books, so they don't have an agenda beyond that.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:40 AM (39g3+)

90 61 - Been listening to the rebroadcast since found it. It plays on my tablet while going to diffent browsers and web sites. Right now there is conversation of little nagging problems in equipment and how to get around them.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:40 AM (BbGew)

91 Napoleon 's only crime was losing

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:41 AM (dm05u)

92 The Hemingway clip is good. "As the Court has become more political in its decision-making, when it makes law rather than interprets the law as written, that creates a very political situation and it's not altogether surprising that the process itself becomes more political."

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:42 AM (kQs4Y)

93 79
What's the name of the video? When I finish Gibbon I'm going back to a set of essays on early Islam that also challenges the conventional narrative.

The Sacred City was the documentary name on amazon.

Posted by: Dread0 at July 21, 2019 09:43 AM (Bptbo)

94 76 Currently reading "The Man From The Train", by Bill James (the baseball guy). About the man who is likely America's most prolific serial killer (100+ victims). He killed ~1898-1912, near train tracks, in areas with minimal / no police presence, entire families in one go, with arson, and other markers.

Great research, but could do without the meandering asides that have little to do with the crime series.
Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:34 AM (3JbJY)

=====

Also, recently finished "The Westies" by T.J. English, about the Irish mob in Hells Kitchen (New York), from 1960-1985ish. The key protagonists were Mickey Featherstone and James Coonan, the latter of whom was notably fond of dismembering his victims. If you are true crime aficionado, recommended.

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:43 AM (3JbJY)

95 I never saw anything like those pants in the wild, but I pretty much could have been the kid on the right. I had that face and that hair at about the time of that picture.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:43 AM (fuK7c)

96 The War College isn't really interested in teaching about war, is it?

Posted by: JAS at July 21, 2019 09:44 AM (I5SAg)

97 Napoleon created one of the world's first secret police systems, brutally repressed, arrested, or killed anyone who dared question him, tried to take over Europe, reversed most of the good things the French revolution started (such as ending slavery in France), ended freedom of the press in France, and attacked nation after nation for no other reason than "Vive La France."

Why people think he was a good guy baffles me completely.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:44 AM (39g3+)

98 54 I love many of Andrew Wyeth's paintings, but this is one of my favorites:

http://www.swoyersart.com/andrew_wyeth/dr_syn.htm

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (kQs4Y)

****

Dr. Syn is not sporting the requisite Sunday Morning Book Thread pants . . .

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at July 21, 2019 09:44 AM (NqQAS)

99 96 The War College isn't really interested in teaching about war, is it?
Posted by: JAS at July 21, 2019 09:44 AM (I5SAg)

=====

That shocking bit of self-defeating PC stuck out to me as well ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:45 AM (3JbJY)

100 For a Napoleonic era buff I have no admiration of him, as was said of Cromwell first, he was a great bad man.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 09:46 AM (BbGew)

101 Napoleon had committed no crime.

...
Executing royalty simply for losing a war was a precedent exactly no one wanted to set. So exile and a quiet death.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 09:26 AM (HIUfw)


It is interesting to speculate what might have happened if Napoleon had stopped in 1807 after defeating the Austrians, Prussians and Russians.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at July 21, 2019 09:46 AM (5Yee7)

102 82 My only disappointment is that I'd hoped for this approach to Jesus, but this God is Jewish bible only.

everyone knows you gotta leave an escape hatch for a sequel

Posted by: Anachronda at July 21, 2019 09:47 AM (cTF5L)

103 Bander, my sympathies . . .

Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:47 AM (i6sQg)

104 Bander, my sympathies . . .


Well, some are born in good eras and some have the seventies thrust upon them.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 09:49 AM (fuK7c)

105 Cromwell gets a bad rap by being disliked by Royal historians. He was no worse than the kings who came before him and in a lot of ways, better. The Irish like to pick him as their particular Devil, but previous kings had been just as awful to them or more so.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:50 AM (39g3+)

106 While on vacation in Alaska (a great place btw) I finished two books, Claudius the God and Proust's Volume 1. Claudius got pretty vengeful once he found out what a lying whore Messalina had been behind his back, at one point thoroughly outdistancing in a contest with the most famed local prostitute in how many studs they could drain before claiming enough. So he had her iced along with others complicit in her schemes which included having her faves rewarded and punishing those she didn't like; kind of like an early non frigid version of Rodham. The ending was pretty funny regarding the satiric eulogies of Claudius. I assume that he was a good emperor particularly following the insanity of Caligula. The book dragged a bit, at least for me, in parts about the British campaign and Claudius's desire to make the Roman Empire a Republic again, but maybe that was because my book group read it immediately after I Claudius and maybe I was reaching saturation level, particularly in the fucking hot weather. Ironically near the end of Proust's Within a Budding Grove there was a reference to Messalina, oddly presented (or translated) imo, that I wouldn't have understood previously.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 09:51 AM (y7DUB)

107 Good morning all! My Sunday school class is studying the affair of David and Bathsheba. My husband asked what the point was. I said maybe to remind us that God knows and sees all. Other than that, I got nothing.

Posted by: jmel at July 21, 2019 09:51 AM (OeWgo)

108 I love the part where Abraham thinks that he is bargaining with God over Sodom. LOL. God didn't agree to anything he already knew wasn't going to happen.

Posted by: JAS at July 21, 2019 09:51 AM (I5SAg)

109 This week both my wife and I have been under the weather. The inevitable result is I've been reading a lot of Bill James. (Not the Man on the Train, true crime isn't my thing. My wife has it, though, and liked it.)

I've dropped Amazon, so our latest order was placed with Book Depository. For some reason, it got cancelled immediately, not clear why. Anyone have experience with them? Or, generally, what companies do Horde members recommend? (Or warn against.)

Mind you, the stuff I order isn't available on most sites - naval stuff, mostly. The core of our order was Norman Friedman's new one on Brit subs. (I even pulled out his earlier one on US subs, to have them side-by-side.)

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 09:51 AM (VaN/j)

110 And with that, gotta get going and clean up yesterday's mess. Lots of brass involved, which is a tale for a later thread.
Bye, Bookies!

Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:53 AM (i6sQg)

111 God punished David by killing the bastard son. David repented. No?

Posted by: JAS at July 21, 2019 09:53 AM (I5SAg)

112 I am currently reading John Buchan's Huntingtower which is a book I wouldn't have enjoyed earlier in my life.

Its about a very typical, very UK Scotsman who has sold his very successful business and decides to go on a walk. He gets tangled up in sinister-seeming dealings in a small Scottish town and is in over his head as a normal middle aged man.

The depictions of Scottish countryside are lush and the book is well written, but its about subject matter I would not have really cared for until I got to a certain age.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:54 AM (39g3+)

113 57 ... "You might be interested in the book "Seamanship in the Age of Sail"."

Hi Captain Obvious and Weasel, The Harland book is on my list to look for. It covers the time of most interest to me. I just can't quite spend the money for it but that could change with minimal weakening of will power.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 09:55 AM (bmdz3)

114 " Never force the back"?????? Where's the fun in that?

Posted by: David French at July 21, 2019 09:55 AM (FTPVM)

115 109 This week both my wife and I have been under the weather. The inevitable result is I've been reading a lot of Bill James. (Not the Man on the Train, true crime isn't my thing. My wife has it, though, and liked it.)

I've dropped Amazon, so our latest order was placed with Book Depository. For some reason, it got cancelled immediately, not clear why. Anyone have experience with them? Or, generally, what companies do Horde members recommend? (Or warn against.)

Mind you, the stuff I order isn't available on most sites - naval stuff, mostly. The core of our order was Norman Friedman's new one on Brit subs. (I even pulled out his earlier one on US subs, to have them side-by-side.)
Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 09:51 AM (VaN/j)

=====

Years ago, I used to subscribe to "Proceedings" of the United States Naval Institute. Not sure why I stopped, but recommended if you want to be informed about the latest developments in naval warfare.

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:56 AM (3JbJY)

116 As far as I know I've not had any unauthorized copies of any of my books sell, mostly because few people know they exist and I sell so few to begin with.

But there are instantly used copies of my books that show up as soon as I post them on Amazon, which is baffling. I suspect that there's some kind of scam going on somewhere.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:57 AM (39g3+)

117 Morning bookists. Chugging along in my writing (grandfather, WWs, combat engineer). because i have developed an unending ability to self-distract and chase anything down a rabbit hole, i wrote two short essays about specific events, and sent them off to family, as teasers. got a collective yawn, but at least I was entertained. because research is NEVER over, i got yet another book on the SS, 'Men of Steel,' by Brit general Reynolds. i wish i'd gotten it 2 years ago, its very detailed. and yes he mentions my gpa. am discovering one of gpa's subordinates who wrote a book... exaggerates EVERYTHING. which sucks, cause i have to CHECK EVERYTHING. If he says something happened on the 23rd 20 miles away, i regularly find it happened 5 miles away on the 25th. etc. Otherwise, chugging slowly along at my 1-2 pages a day pace. its fun as hell, but hard work. enjoy all!

PS. God Bless the astronauts and Lunar-nauts. i was 13, watched it all live.

Posted by: goatexchange at July 21, 2019 09:57 AM (iBmJc)

118 Cromwell gets a bad rap by being disliked by Royal historians. He was no worse than the kings who came before him and in a lot of ways, better. The Irish like to pick him as their particular Devil, but previous kings had been just as awful to them or more so.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:50 AM (39g3+)


Yeah I don't get that either. It's not like the Jesuits weren't perpetually plotting against the crown like a bunch of seditious cocksuckers. I'd have fucked those dickweeds up a lot worse. Still disinterring Cromwell's rotting carcass and hanging it in chains is a good how to guide in dealing with McCain when Civil War 2 goes hot.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 09:58 AM (y7DUB)

119 "... the future of free speech and free thought is not with e-books, the internet, and the world wide web, but with independent bookstores and private libraries."

Which is exactly why I have a library of about 4000 volumes that I can physically touch.
...
Posted by: Marica at July 21, 2019 09:29 AM (SDvjO)


I agree completely. Before I became concerned about the Leftists' attempt to kill the American Experiment, I concentrated on military history for my own interests. Now I'm buying more general American history and other older books (pre-1980). I'm at 5000 in my personal library and have been buying as many older books as I can afford. Now I'm buying for the preservation of these old books.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at July 21, 2019 09:59 AM (5Yee7)

120 Learning "How to Open a New Book" was a thrilling rite of passage in the second or third grade when we got our first actual textbooks.

-
I remember that as well.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:00 AM (+y/Ru)

121 If only Agatha Christie had looked like the girl on the Redbook cover. . . .

I just reread Stephen King's The Dead Zone from 1979. It is still a top-notch story. But as his political stance changed from R to D when he got to college in 1965 or so, mine has shifted 180 degrees from what it was in 1980 when I read the book. Greg Stillson, the villain, is a scumbag, no question about that, and King is careful to show what a thug he is -- he kicks a dog to death in his first scene in the book, has his minions violently threaten his political opponents, etc. Granted.

But some of the planks of his platform -- tougher sentences for drug pushers, cutting welfare payments to obvious druggies, cutting taxes, getting some of the delinquents to work on public works projects -- don't sound too bad to me now. To be fair, King has Johnny Smith, the protagonist, be uneasy about Stillson's associates, former bikers who carry sawed-off pool cues in their pockets, and other things about the man that have nothing to do with his platform. But now I find myself saying, "Y'know, Stillson's platform isn't too bad!"

Didn't ruin the book. But it just shows to go you that you can't come back to a favorite book in quite the same space you were in when you first read it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 21, 2019 10:00 AM (4c+5M)

122 It is interesting to speculate what might have
happened if Napoleon had stopped in 1807 after defeating the Austrians,
Prussians and Russians.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at July 21, 2019 09:46 AM (5Yee7)

---
He couldn't stop. He was at war with everyone around him. Those he defeated were openly gathering strength for the next round. The Austrians were implacable.

He could have had peace if he'd stopped imposing punishing terms. A Napoloeonic France with slightly favorable 1792 borders was possible. One that annexed the Netherlands, Switzerland, established the Rhine as tributary and had the Emperor's brother on the Spanish throne and northern Italy as a protectorate was never going to work.

Don't forget his excellent Egyptian adventure, either. His ambition knew no bounds.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:00 AM (HIUfw)

123 Regarding libraries, my wife and I have noted an upsurge of small bookstores of a certain Type during our travels in the US. They are usually run by by women or guys with small ponytails. The literature is either mysandric or uninteresting to me, and I certainly wouldn't want them "protecting" my choice of books.

Posted by: EdmundBurkesShade at July 21, 2019 10:01 AM (gSgAd)

124 He couldn't stop.

Nappy liked being a general a lot more than he liked being an administrator.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:02 AM (I2/tG)

125 Cromwell gets a bad rap by being disliked by Royal historians. He was no worse than the kings who came before him and in a lot of ways, better. The Irish like to pick him as their particular Devil, but previous kings had been just as awful to them or more so.

-
And yet the Brits honored him during WWII by naming a tank after him.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (+y/Ru)

126 Will Cuppy, a humorist of the Forties, mentions in one piece a current bestseller of his time called How to Read a Book. He says, "It came too late for me. I'd already read one."

Currently I'm dipping into the ghost stories of M.R. James, whose "Casting the Runes," for example, became the classic creep movie Curse of the Demon. His " 'Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad' " is very readable still, and very disturbing.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (4c+5M)

127 Austin has a "Bookpeople" book store. It's pretty leftist. Downtown near Whole Foods and REI.

Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (UUBmN)

128 89: Nothing worse than going into a bookstore and finding leftist philosophy, LGBLT kiddie books and the schedule for feminist speakers. Oddly, around here, the best choices are BN (you might have to look but you can find what you want) or used book sellers.

This week I bought Vassily Grossman's "Everything Flows", and will get started this evening. I know it will be depressing, but I think the savagery of communism needs to be read about, talked about and out in the open.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (U7k5w)

129 "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.

Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

- Groucho Marx, my kind of Marxist

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #Progressivism=Socialism at July 21, 2019 10:04 AM (HaL55)

130 Always Love the book thread.

Both Islam books into the cart/watch list.
At least one of them should make it's way into my library in the next year.

Skip; Thanks for the link to rebroadcast of the Apollo 11 mission. If I'd known about it I wouldn't have done much reading in the last week. (Looks easy to re-watch & jump around, 11,000 hrs of audio! if you really want to dig into the department audio channels ).

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at July 21, 2019 10:04 AM (x8Q/V)

131 123: Well said and so true. Hopefully they pay their people at least 15/hr and fail miserably.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 10:05 AM (U7k5w)

132 127 Austin has a "Bookpeople" book store. It's pretty leftist. Downtown near Whole Foods and REI.
Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (UUBmN)

=====

Stopped shopping at REI a couple of years ago. Entirely because they never had what I wanted ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:05 AM (3JbJY)

133 David was an adulterer who was willing to have his affair partner's husband murdered.

He was also one of God's greatest effectors.

Any of us can do God's work, no matter what we have in our past. We must repent sincerely, as David did (Psalm 51), and yield ourselves to the Lord.

Posted by: Mrs. Peel at July 21, 2019 10:07 AM (rWZ8Y)

134 There is a local independent bookstore downtown called Book Marx. It has a picture of Karl Marx on the front window. At first I thought, hey, a new bookstore! Then I saw the name. Smh.

Posted by: DIY Daddio at July 21, 2019 10:07 AM (RJscS)

135 It is interesting to speculate what might have happened if Napoleon had stopped in 1807 after defeating the Austrians, Prussians and Russians.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop
________

My favorite alternate-history speculation is about what would have happened had the French kicked the Germans out of the Rhineland in 1936.

Posted by: FireHorse at July 21, 2019 10:07 AM (ta49A)

136
Yeah I don't get that either. It's not like the
Jesuits weren't perpetually plotting against the crown like a bunch of
seditious cocksuckers. I'd have fucked those dickweeds up a lot worse.
Still disinterring Cromwell's rotting carcass and hanging it in chains
is a good how to guide in dealing with McCain when Civil War 2 goes hot.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 09:58 AM (y7DUB)

---
Please. I have no love for the Jesuits, but can we tone down the Tudor propaganda just a bit?

Can we all admit that the "English Reformation" was just a power grab by Henry and his successors? It utterly destroyed the separation between church and state, leaving the monarch in absolute power over both - something even the "absolute" monarchs on the Continent didn't achieve.

It wasn't just Jesuits, either. Anyone who didn't bow to the newly-crowed Pope-King got killed.

Cromwell was even more a of power-mad lunatic, toppling the monarchy and then burning Ireland to the ground.

As Churchill noted, he killed huge numbers of people, which made him a Great Man.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:07 AM (HIUfw)

137 I did not know there was such a thing as a famous bookbinder.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - #Progressivism=Socialism at July 21, 2019 10:08 AM (HaL55)

138 81 Weasel! Kindred spirits with Chapman's!
Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:35 AM (i6sQg)
--------
Yeah, Bro! I grew up sailing on the Chesapeake and my dad made me read it.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 10:08 AM (MVjcR)

139 The depictions of Scottish countryside are lush and the book is well written, but its about subject matter I would not have really cared for until I got to a certain age.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:54 AM (39g3+)


Speaking only for myself, I found the English fixation on their dinky island being as big as a continent delusionally offputting, at least in my slightly more callow youth. Now I just roll my eyes and enjoy it if it's well written.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:08 AM (y7DUB)

140 And yet the Brits honored him during WWII by naming a tank after him.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (+y/Ru)

---
They were running out of words starting with "C".

Also, it probably pissed of the Irish Republic, which was a feature, not a bug.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:09 AM (HIUfw)

141 115
Years ago, I used to subscribe to "Proceedings" of the United States Naval Institute. Not sure why I stopped, but recommended if you want to be informed about the latest developments in naval warfare.
Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 09:56 AM (3JbJY)
______

Yes, I used to subscribe, too. Stopped when $ became a big issue, about 15 years ago. (Bush/Obama years were a disaster for us.)

They had excellent service. I once called in an order, and happened to mention another book I'd have liked to have ordered, but which was no longer listed. The girl said "I think I've see a copy or two left. Would you like to hold?" And I got it.

But I'm not so interested in up-to-date stuff as in history. I don't entirely ignore it, but it's just not the same after Leyte.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:09 AM (VaN/j)

142 “"He had also learned that there is no use murdering people; there are always so many left, and if you tried to murder them all you would never get anything else done.”

Will Cuppy, "The Decline and Fall of Practically Everybody"

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 10:10 AM (kQs4Y)

143 They were running out of words starting with "C".

Also, it probably pissed of the Irish Republic, which was a feature, not a bug.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:09 AM (HIUfw)

=====

There was a popular British word beginning with "C" which they failed to use ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:10 AM (3JbJY)

144 It is interesting to speculate what might have happened if Napoleon had stopped in 1807 after defeating the Austrians, Prussians and Russians.

-
Alexander the Great wept that there were no more worlds to conquer. That makes him an asshole. I see Napoleon as similar although Napoleon at least also did actually improve the administration of government.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:11 AM (+y/Ru)

145 This week I bought Vassily Grossman's "Everything Flows", and will get started this evening. I know it will be depressing, but I think the savagery of communism needs to be read about, talked about and out in the open.

I just finished Grossman's "Stalingrad" ("For A Just Cause"), and am watching the Russian TV mini-series of "Life and Fate" (Grossman's great novel on the Battle of Stalingrad and much else), which is quite good. It's on Amazon Prime Video with English subtitles.

Russian TV does TV mini-series very well, particularly on historical topics. You aren't constrained in having to figure out how to stretch out a TV show for multiple seasons - you address a topic, do a number of episodes covering the topic, and then stop.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:11 AM (I2/tG)

146 Learning "How to Open a New Book" was a thrilling rite of passage in the second or third grade when we got our first actual textbooks.

-
I remember that as well.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:00 AM (+y/Ru)

And making our own book covers at home on the kitchen table with grocery store paper bags.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:11 AM (cknjq)

147
I just reread Stephen King's The Dead Zone from 1979. . . . Greg Stillson, the villain, is a scumbag, no question about that . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 21, 2019 10:00 AM (4c+5M)

***

I recently rewatched the movie version, and it was a hoot watching Martin Sheen play the Stillson character. I couldn't get The West Wing out of my mind.

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at July 21, 2019 10:12 AM (NqQAS)

148 There was a popular British word beginning with "C" which they failed to use ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:10 AM (3JbJY)

---
It amply applied to the Covenanter. Piece of junk.

Also, Eamon de Valera. Gotta love a guy who sent Nazi Germany condolences on Hitler's death.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:13 AM (HIUfw)

149 And yet the Brits honored him during WWII by naming a tank after him.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (+y/Ru)

---
They were running out of words starting with "C".

Also, it probably pissed of the Irish Republic, which was a feature, not a bug.
-----
Well, he was one of their most successful military commanders. Never lost a battle AFAIK, and, as a subordinate, was notable for salvaging battles his superiors ha screwed up.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:13 AM (iB1oa)

150 105 Cromwell gets a bad rap by being disliked by Royal historians. He was no worse than the kings who came before him and in a lot of ways, better. The Irish like to pick him as their particular Devil, but previous kings had been just as awful to them or more so.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 09:50 AM (39g3+)
_______

To say "previous kings had been just as awful to them or more so" is an odd claim. Previous kings had worked with one faction or other (as they did in Scotland). Cromwell was the first to go all out.

It's also an odd defense to say royalist historians (not "royal", royalist) attacked him. Of course they did. And the roundhead historians pumped him up. I don't see the significance of that. The Whig historians were dominant in the 19th C. When I went to college in 1971, it was still a bit revisionist to say Cromwell wasn't all that.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:13 AM (VaN/j)

151 Russian TV does TV mini-series very well,
particularly on historical topics. You aren't constrained in having to
figure out how to stretch out a TV show for multiple seasons - you
address a topic, do a number of episodes covering the topic, and then
stop.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:11 AM (I2/tG)

---
Yes they do! I watched "Sophia" a few weeks back it was amazing. Lavish sets, great acting, lots of info about a period in Russian history of which I knew next to nothing.

Plus, Russian chicks are hawt.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:14 AM (HIUfw)

152 Please. I have no love for the Jesuits, but can we tone down the Tudor propaganda just a bit?

The Jesuits were actively plotting on killing Elizabeth despite her not being as rabidly against them as daddy dearest (Mary's execution was done by her sneaky advisers afraid she'd gone wobbly and worked around her). If that's propaganda there's a wide swath of history that has to be reclassified.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:14 AM (y7DUB)

153 On the tank, Churchill was a big Cromwell fan, ultimately. (He does hit him for brutality, though.) Pre-WWI, he tried to get a battleship named for Oliver.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:15 AM (VaN/j)

154 There is a local independent bookstore downtown called Book Marx.

Years ago, there was a bookstore in Berkeley called "Yenan Books". I went in, and they had a set of the "Complete Works of Enver Hoxha" (the former Communist dictator of Albania), which went on for many, many volumes.

I always wondered how many they sold.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:16 AM (I2/tG)

155 138 81 Weasel! Kindred spirits with Chapman's!
Posted by: RI Red at July 21, 2019 09:35 AM (i6sQg)
--------
Yeah, Bro! I grew up sailing on the Chesapeake and my dad made me read it.
Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 10:08 AM (MVjcR)
-------
Thinking about this some more, I wasn't so much required to "read" Chapman's as I was to study it.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 10:17 AM (MVjcR)

156 Morning Horde,

Instapundit has a link to an article about Gramscian Damage, arguing that most/all lf the core tenets of leftism are self-perpetuating memes created by the Soviets as part of a thought-war against America.

Anyone have any sources for more information on this?

Posted by: .87c at July 21, 2019 10:18 AM (DmDmL)

157 On the tank, Churchill was a big Cromwell fan, ultimately. (He does hit him for brutality, though.) Pre-WWI, he tried to get a battleship named for Oliver.
Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:15 AM (VaN/j)
-----
Hmmm...would the crew on such a ship call themselves "Nollies"?

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:18 AM (iB1oa)

158 154 There is a local independent bookstore downtown called Book Marx.

Years ago, there was a bookstore in Berkeley called "Yenan Books". I went in, and they had a set of the "Complete Works of Enver Hoxha" (the former Communist dictator of Albania), which went on for many, many volumes.

I always wondered how many they sold.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:16 AM (I2/tG)

=====

One of my favorite books as a teen / young adult were the "Death Merchant" series. The first one I read was #5, where he went into Commie-era Albania to take out some Nazis developing nukes in a mountain cave. Gratuitous bloodshed ensued ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:18 AM (3JbJY)

159 Lavish sets, great acting, lots of info about a period in Russian history of which I knew next to nothing.

The Russian government pours a lot of money into Russian historical TV mini-series. They obviously spent a lot of money on "Life and Fate".

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (I2/tG)

160 Gratuitous bloodshed ensued . . .

Posted by: Kingsnake
________

That's the best kind.

Posted by: FireHorse at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (ta49A)

161 The Jesuits were actively plotting on killing
Elizabeth despite her not being as rabidly against them as daddy dearest
(Mary's execution was done by her sneaky advisers afraid she'd gone
wobbly and worked around her). If that's propaganda there's a wide
swath of history that has to be reclassified.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:14 AM (y7DUB)

---
Sure they were. She also killed priests trying to provide sacraments for observant Catholics. In fact, she killed any priest she could find.

So it wasn't just Jesuits. She was actively trying to stamp out any religious dissent from her father's claim to be King-Pope.

And opposing that probably does count as "plotting against her," because when a crowned head makes themselves God's representative on earth, we're all supposed to agree, right?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (HIUfw)

162 > My problem with Thor and Correia is they decided to go never Trump and we're vocal about it.

I don't know about Thor (don't much care for his writing, so don't follow him) but I wouldn't characterize Correia as "never Trump". Like many (including me) he was a Trump skeptic. To me, "never Trump" is someone who voted for Hillary rather than Trump, and Correia definitely did not do that.
I feel confident that he will be voting for Trump in 2020.





Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:20 AM (GDooN)

163 152 Please. I have no love for the Jesuits, but can we tone down the Tudor propaganda just a bit?

The Jesuits were actively plotting on killing Elizabeth despite her not being as rabidly against them as daddy dearest (Mary's execution was done by her sneaky advisers afraid she'd gone wobbly and worked around her). If that's propaganda there's a wide swath of history that has to be reclassified.
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:14 AM (y7DUB)
_______

No, not "THE Jesuits". Some did. But then, it was already treason to be a Catholic.

The propaganda lies in the presentation of only that side of the story which suits one's views. By modern standards, there are no good guys in the Tudor era, period. The whole kingdom was Pottsylvania.

And of course, that means avowed modern standards. It's not clear how many Walsingham wannabes are in the government today.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:20 AM (VaN/j)

164 160 Gratuitous bloodshed ensued . . .

Posted by: Kingsnake
________

That's the best kind.
Posted by: FireHorse at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (ta49A)

=====

Indeed.

A few years ago I saw a complete set of the "Death Merchant" series in my local used bookstore. It was quite surprising. Not sure I didn't buy it ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:21 AM (3JbJY)

165 I'm elated to discover there's a thing called "the backwards law" and that it's all about the field where I grow mine fux.



Behold! *spread arms wide* It lies barren and fallow...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy - Living the Backwards Law at July 21, 2019 10:22 AM (HaL55)

166 I bought The Master and Margarita at Lighthouse Books in San Franshitsco. I showed great restraint by not telling the commie fucks that Bulgakov was mocking the workers paradise under Stalin's nose.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:22 AM (y7DUB)

167 151
Plus, Russian chicks are hawt.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:14 AM (HIUfw)
________

A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration, something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:23 AM (VaN/j)

168 >>Thinking about this some more, I wasn't so much required to "read" Chapman's as I was to study it.

It's really more of a textbook but a damned handy one.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2019 10:24 AM (K/2j/)

169 Does Communism, along with its other crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?

Not possible! And women had better sex under socialism!

Posted by: The New York Times! at July 21, 2019 10:25 AM (I2/tG)

170 168 >>Thinking about this some more, I wasn't so much required to "read" Chapman's as I was to study it.

It's really more of a textbook but a damned handy one.
Posted by: JackStraw at July 21, 2019 10:24 AM (K/2
--------
Yep. Pretty sure I still have my copy in the Weasel Library.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 10:25 AM (MVjcR)

171 Admittedly I had to read that book quote a couple of times before it fully registered. The first half was fine but kind of lost me the second half. That's not my kind of prose.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:25 AM (2DOZq)

172 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he
didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration,
something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other
crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:23 AM (VaN/j)

---
Malnutrition and constant fear probably isn't conducive to a bright smile.

Maybe the cute ones were claimed by the Nomenklatura and kept out of general circulation.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:25 AM (HIUfw)

173 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration, something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?


I spend a lot of time there in the immediate post-commie era ('91-93) and there were genuine hotties. That's too short a period to incubate new hotties, they must have been pre-existing.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 10:27 AM (fuK7c)

174 Years ago, there was a bookstore in Berkeley called
"Yenan Books". I went in, and they had a set of the "Complete Works of
Enver Hoxha" (the former Communist dictator of Albania), which went on
for many, many volumes.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 10:16 AM (I2/tG)

Was that in a weird little alley off of Telegraph? I think I remember it, but I don't remember the name....

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 10:27 AM (wYseH)

175 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration, something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?
Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:23 AM (VaN/j)


Maybe. The most earthily appealing woman I've ever met was a rooski exile. It moved just thinking about her.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:28 AM (y7DUB)

176 They had to have hit commie women. Where else would they get their Honey Pots?

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:29 AM (2DOZq)

177 175 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration, something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?
Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:23 AM (VaN/j)

Maybe. The most earthily appealing woman I've ever met was a rooski exile. It moved just thinking about her.
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:28 AM (y7DUB)

=====

Experiencing a little "glasnost", tovarich?

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:29 AM (3JbJY)

178 Was that in a weird little alley off of Telegraph? I think I remember it, but I don't remember the name....

You're probably thinking of Revolution Books, run by the Revolutionary Communist Party. Always a good place to go if you wanted a Stalin poster.

Posted by: The New York Times! at July 21, 2019 10:30 AM (I2/tG)

179 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he
didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration,
something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other
crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?



Waitlist for woman is 5 years, Comrade.

Waitlist for good-looking woman, 2 years. And must be Inner Party member.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2019 10:30 AM (oVJmc)

180 I followed the Amazon link to Sword and Scimitar and saw the following in the "Sponsored products related to this item" section at the bottom of the page:

President Trump and the New World Order: The Ramtha Trump Prophecy.

The accompanying blurb reads:

"It's time to know what Trump knows. Benevolent aliens exist. He has met them. They are on his side as he drains the swamp. MAGA."

Okay . . . (feverishly readies tin-foil hat)

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at July 21, 2019 10:30 AM (NqQAS)

181 Maybe the cute ones were claimed by the Nomenklatura and kept out of general circulation.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:25 AM (HIUfw)

Yup.....the Red Army, KGB and Party Bosses had whores a plenty. They would even helicopter them to their private dachas for booze fueled hunting trips and orgies.

Woodstock had nothing on the Soviet Big Brass.

Just like the democrats today.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (Z+IKu)

182 Great research, but could do without the meandering asides that have little to do with the crime series.

-
I have begun to read Furious Hours by Casey Cep about a black preacher who apparently murdered six family members over the years for the insurance money but always escaped acquittal (but was eventually shot and killed by another relative in the courthouse immediately following his last acquittal). It happened in Alabama beginning in the 1970s but we are treated to a retelling of the Scottsboro boys from 40 years earlier and everything else for the purpose of showing the racism of the Alabamans. Why? This is about black-on-black crime that white law enforcement tried to solve but that white juries continued to acquit the killer. (The guy who shot the good reverend was also acquitted despite 300 eyewitnesses.)

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (+y/Ru)

183 161
So it wasn't just Jesuits. She was actively trying to stamp out any religious dissent from her father's claim to be King-Pope.

And opposing that probably does count as "plotting against her," because when a crowned head makes themselves God's representative on earth, we're all supposed to agree, right?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (HIUfw)
_______

No, Elizabeth never made the claims Henry did. He was, granted, about the one case of actual Caesaro-papism in the West. But Elizabeth never shot for that level.

She did, however, insist on uniformity, and that meant no Catholics (or Anabaptists, for that matter.) Of course, it was the 16th C, and everyone thought a realm should have only one religion.

There's an important distinction to be made, though. For ages people had believed that kings were "God's representatives", but that did NOT entail Absolutism, which was a new idea. As late as Mallory, you can see that a king was not above the law, but in the 16th C the notion that the law comes from the king arises. And of course, it's still with us, if you just substitute "government" for "king".

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (VaN/j)

184 I wouldn't trust a Russian Bride as far as I could throw her boyfriend who will end up killing you.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:32 AM (2DOZq)

185 President Trump and the New World Order: The Ramtha Trump Prophecy.

The accompanying blurb reads:

"It's time to know what Trump knows. Benevolent aliens exist. He has met them. They are on his side as he drains the swamp. MAGA."
-----
Oh, fer cryin' out loud...when am I gonna get my teleporters and death rays, then?

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:33 AM (iB1oa)

186 The left has managed to deplatform certain ideas by pressuring Amazon to remove books, but are libraries next? One way is that books can be stolen and not replaced by the library, or the left can pressure the library to remove a book from the shelves altogether or have it moved to a special collection so that a patron can't find it easily. Library ebook availability can be manipulated just as easily as Amazon.
Suddenly the idea of banning books that the left has viewed as anathema to freedom is now a tool for their own use.

Posted by: next in line at July 21, 2019 10:34 AM (XGBQ3)

187 I am currently reading Mark Twain's The Innocents Abroad. He has a lot of very complimentary things to say about Napoleon III.
He has a lot of very uncomplimentary things to say about the Muzzies. Some things never change.

Posted by: cool breeze at July 21, 2019 10:35 AM (UGKMd)

188 Oh, fer cryin' out loud...when am I gonna get my teleporters and death rays, then?
Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:33 AM (iB1oa)
---
The really unfair thing is that you have to teleport to the future to get your teleporter that you have to use to get the death ray.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 10:35 AM (kQs4Y)

189 BTW, my wife is often mistaken for Slavic, but is actually Welsh descent. And hawt.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:35 AM (VaN/j)

190 182 Great research, but could do without the meandering asides that have little to do with the crime series.

-
I have begun to read Furious Hours by Casey Cep about a black preacher who apparently murdered six family members over the years for the insurance money but always escaped acquittal (but was eventually shot and killed by another relative in the courthouse immediately following his last acquittal). It happened in Alabama beginning in the 1970s but we are treated to a retelling of the Scottsboro boys from 40 years earlier and everything else for the purpose of showing the racism of the Alabamans. Why? This is about black-on-black crime that white law enforcement tried to solve but that white juries continued to acquit the killer. (The guy who shot the good reverend was also acquitted despite 300 eyewitnesses.)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (+y/Ru)

=====

You can't win for losing.

Along similar lines, "In Broad Daylight" by Harry N. MacLean is about a killing in front of dozen of witnesses -- not one of whom spoke to police -- in small town Missouri. The "victim" desperately needed to be dealt with, for decades, but the legal system wouldn't protect the town from the "victim", so they protected themselves.

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:36 AM (3JbJY)

191 The really unfair thing is that you have to teleport to the future to get your teleporter that you have to use to get the death ray.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 10:35 AM (kQs4Y)

Wasn't that the script from the first Star Trek movie with Chris Pine?

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:36 AM (2DOZq)

192 I originally joined the naval institute primarily for the book discounts. Dropped it after I realized I'd always be able to find books much cheaper elsewhere & if I could wait.
I will probably rejoin at some point, I kept it up many years just for Proceedings.

Internet has killed most subscriptions for me.
At one point I think I had a dozen active: history, aviation, archaeology, science, modeling.
I've been down to 2 for last decade: The Hook (Naval Aviation) & Fine Scale Modeling.
Also local newspapers so blatantly one sided. If they were fair & balanced I'd have never left.

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at July 21, 2019 10:37 AM (x8Q/V)

193 Good morning.

If there are any 'Ron's near Madison, Georgia, I'm at the truck stop on I-20 in case anyone wants to bring me a nice grilled steak or a lasagna or something. *Wink*

I know jack shit about Napoleon. Except for trying to conquer Europe what made him a bad dude exactly?

And why wasn't he executed?

Posted by: Robert, delightful scamp at July 21, 2019 10:37 AM (AvqJ/)

194 The propaganda lies in the presentation of only that
side of the story which suits one's views. By modern standards, there
are no good guys in the Tudor era, period. The whole kingdom was
Pottsylvania.



And of course, that means avowed modern standards. It's not clear how many Walsingham wannabes are in the government today.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:20 AM (VaN/j)

---
I think if you look objectively at Henry VIII - that is, set aside the period feel, the larger than life character, etc. - he's pretty much a grotesque monster.

He broke with Rome for political reasons and then used that to claim some sort of theological justification. His daughter went further and even hagiography admits she killed people and played dirty tricks.

The scene in one of the movies with Kate Blanchette where she locks out the pro-Catholic churchmen to get her bill through. Ha ha ha! Funny little trick.

The part they leave out is any clergy that refuse to acknowledge her as the supreme religious authority in England got a painful and prolonged death.

And many of them did so.

Not a beheading, either. Drawing and quartering, disembowling - basically the worst way they could think of to kill someone.

All in the name of asserting her claim to supreme religious authority.

Again, without Shakespeare and sonnets, funky bodices and such, it would be generally acknowledged as a time of bloody tyranny.

Was the throne threatened? Sure. How could she have secured it? By going back to the centuries-old relationship with Rome. Ah, but that would cost money and power, so no sale.

But Protestants wrote most of the history, so we must blame those dastardly Papists, who got what they deserved!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:38 AM (HIUfw)

195 On pirated books:
Your books will be pirated as long as they are perceived as marketable. Cheer up, that's a good sign!
And what are you going to do? There are third-party companies who will gladly take your money and send "cease and desist" letters, which do no good at all. Someone, somewhere is supplementing their meager income by copying your book into a pdf. Embrace it!

Posted by: artemis at July 21, 2019 10:38 AM (AwPyG)

196 Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (VaN/j)

Thank you. Other than being a spiteful bitch to the wives of her bang toys Liz seemed like a benevolent monarch, particularly for the times. That doesn't mean she wasn't pig headedly ignorant about some things but she had a layer of advisers pursuing their own agendas.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:41 AM (y7DUB)

197 It strikes me that someone who is downloading books from a dodgy Belarussian site is someone who is extremely unlikely to be buying your book anyway.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:41 AM (GDooN)

198 She did, however, insist on uniformity, and that
meant no Catholics (or Anabaptists, for that matter.) Of course, it was
the 16th C, and everyone thought a realm should have only one religion.




Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:31 AM (VaN/j)

---
How many people have been killed for the sake of making things "uniform?"

Not just Elizabeth, but everywhere. To quote Caligula: "Aren't people awful?"

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:42 AM (HIUfw)

199 Wasn't that the script from the first Star Trek movie with Chris Pine?

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:36 AM (2DOZq)

---
It had a script? News to me.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:43 AM (HIUfw)

200 @197
Exactly.
Anyone's who's willing to rip you off will happily do so.

Posted by: artemis at July 21, 2019 10:43 AM (AwPyG)

201 Henry VIII capitalized on grassroots anti-Papal feeling that had been building in England for a long time. Even in the mid-fifteenth century, people were prone to saying things like, "The Pope's curse would not kill a fly", and were resentful of the expansion of the rich and powerful monastic establishments.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (iB1oa)

202 It didn't help that they were trying to kill Elizabeth.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (2DOZq)

203 Not a beheading, either. Drawing and quartering, disembowling - basically the worst way they could think of to kill someone.

This is how you make Antifa go away.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (y7DUB)

204 Posted by: Robert, delightful scamp at July 21, 2019 10:37 AM (AvqJ/)

Wow. The town I grew up in. The historic home district is something everyone should visit at least once. The only town Sherman refused to burn.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:45 AM (cknjq)

205 Qd5+

Posted by: jsg at July 21, 2019 10:46 AM (/PoaU)

206 Henry VIII capitalized on grassroots anti-Papal
feeling that had been building in England for a long time. Even in the
mid-fifteenth century, people were prone to saying things like, "The
Pope's curse would not kill a fly", and were resentful of the expansion
of the rich and powerful monastic establishments.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (iB1oa)

---
The people resentful were the rich landowners, who eventually got them.

It was a disaster for poor people, who depended on that generosity. Even Churchill noted this.

Basically Henry looked at the social safety net the Church provided, took it and sold it to the highest bidders.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:46 AM (HIUfw)

207 The only town Sherman refused to burn.
----
Did the mayor give Sherman the secret Masonic handshake?

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:47 AM (iB1oa)

208 > Not a beheading, either. Drawing and quartering, disembowling - basically the worst way they could think of to kill someone.

> All in the name of asserting her claim to supreme religious authority.

Of course, the Catholics never did anything like that, at all.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:47 AM (GDooN)

209 Again, without Shakespeare and sonnets, funky bodices and such, it would be generally acknowledged as a time of bloody tyranny.

-
Wild Bill Shakespeare documented a lot of Brit bloody tyranny.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at July 21, 2019 10:47 AM (+y/Ru)

210 The historic home district is something everyone should visit at least once.
Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:45 AM (

Think an 18-wheeler can squeeze through?

Posted by: Robert, delightful scamp at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (AvqJ/)

211 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he didn't see a single good looking girl

I think the girls kept their heads down and tried not to be noticed.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (39g3+)

212 It didn't help that they were trying to kill Elizabeth.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (2DOZq)

---
How did her family get the throne again?

IIRC, the Tudors whacked a lot of potential claimants themselves.

But when the crown does it, it's "execution," not killing.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (HIUfw)

213 Yadda, yadda, yadda ...

About the subject of this thread: Books?

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (3JbJY)

214 Congrats to 'ette Celia Hayes for scoring a mention complete with book cover! Yay to all the moron authors and happy Sunday

Posted by: zeera Gimme some 12 bar blues with a B3 please at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (CAJL/)

215 Did the mayor give Sherman the secret Masonic handshake?
Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:47 AM (iB1oa)

Better.

Home cooked food. If I remember the story correctly. 29 years ago and all.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:49 AM (cknjq)

216 About Napoleon, I'm not at all well read on his life but will only state that he filled the vacuum when a world power went completely feral.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 10:49 AM (y7DUB)

217 And making our own book covers at home on the kitchen table with grocery store paper bags.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:11 AM (cknjq)


Oh yes! We did that, too, with out school textbooks.

Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at July 21, 2019 10:50 AM (smcnr)

218 But when the crown does it, it's "execution," not killing.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (HIUfw)
-----
I prefer "judicial murder" myself, but that's just me.

Posted by: Hank Tudor at July 21, 2019 10:50 AM (iB1oa)

219 About the subject of this thread: Books?

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (3JbJY)


Technically, yes, but...

Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at July 21, 2019 10:50 AM (smcnr)

220 Think an 18-wheeler can squeeze through?
Posted by: Robert, delightful scamp at July 21, 2019 10:48 AM (AvqJ/)

Trying to think of where you could park and walk around.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:51 AM (cknjq)

221 The bastards at KISS LIBRARY stole my humble diet book. They have put it in PDF and ePUB and now it is out there for anyone to pass on. It was only up in Amazon's Kidle Direct. This could mean that Amazon is vulnerable.
https://kisslibrary.net/book/9d8bfe2f591e46d9bf19

Posted by: Chris Cassone at July 21, 2019 10:51 AM (ue4sq)

222 It's scary how much Amazon customizes what you see.

I was disappointed checking my Sword and Scimitar page, I see no link to Ramtha Trump Prophecy. I guess the aliens (Gray's?) didn't want me to know about this.

I justify using them knowing that a tiny tiny fraction of my money is indirectly supporting Space X. (Blue Origin's more important competitor)

Posted by: InspiredHistoryMike at July 21, 2019 10:51 AM (x8Q/V)

223 One of the most interesting aspects of reading journals from the 1700s is how different their perception of time was. We get irritated if it takes a few extra seconds to load a website. They could take days and weeks to accomplish 'simple' matters like providing clothing for a family or adding to a house, or just getting to the next town. It is one of the biggest disconnects between today and the past. Hell, just getting a wood or coal burning stove ready for use took knowledge and time.

I'm not saying it was better back then but it certainly is different.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 10:53 AM (bmdz3)

224 Robert, in all seriousness, heading east or west on 20?

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 10:53 AM (cknjq)

225 Just checked, Kiss Library hasn't sucked in my book. Yet.

Posted by: zeera Gimme some 12 bar blues with a B3 please at July 21, 2019 10:54 AM (CAJL/)

226 Okay, my stomach's really rumbling. Off to make an Italian sausage and cheese omelet.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:55 AM (iB1oa)

227 It's been a while since I read it, but if you're interested in the interplay between Elizabeth, Shakespeare, and Royal Politics and Declared Religion, I would recommend the book _Shadowplay_ by Clare Asquith. There's another similar book out there, but I can't remember the title. Let me search a little bit more.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Who Had A B-Wing, and Called It Brad at July 21, 2019 10:55 AM (Clxcy)

228 Of course, the Catholics never did anything like that, at all.



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:47 AM (GDooN)

---
Outside of the papal states and some bishoprics in the Holy Roman Empire, the Church had no temporal power to punish.

Secular rulers had to do the dirty work and they could (and sometimes did) commute sentences.

The point is that Tudor apologists have to fall back on "Well, other than the systematic execution of people who refused to bow to the new religion (which included Protestant dissenters as well as Catholic), Elizabeth was a pretty decent ruler."

They never say why that was do damn important. It wouldn't have been hard to make the "problem" go away and nothing much would have changed.

Well, the Crown would have had less money and power, which is why she was willing to kill to keep both.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:56 AM (HIUfw)

229 They could take days and weeks to accomplish 'simple' matters like providing clothing for a family or adding to a house, or just getting to the next town. It is one of the biggest disconnects between today and the past.


This may be oversharing but that's a point I used to yell at Mommy. She's the type who if she expects me at 5:00 is convinced by 5:15 that I'm dead in a ditch.

So I'd say this trip 200 years ago would take weeks, you wouldn't know what day I would arrive if the mail happened to get there faster than I did. I will not ever tell you when to expect me, just that I'll be visiting.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (fuK7c)

230 Morning horde.

I'm reading Romanovs:1613 to 1918 by Simon Sebag Montefiore.

I'm at the point where tsar Alexander II and Napoleon go at it.

Long and fascinating read.

Posted by: mpfs, Waiter, I'll have the Juan de Fuca Plate at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (Nn6zC)

231 > Hell, just getting a wood or coal burning stove ready for use took knowledge and time.

Indeed. I grew up with wood-burning heat.
Eventually you get so good at it that you can wake up cold in the middle of the night, stir up the fire and add wood, and go back to bed without ever waking up completely.
I was a piker compared to earlier generations, though. Both of my great-grandmothers could do stuff like make cakes in a wood range, something that can't even imagine attempting (we had a propane cook stove by the time I came around).



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (GDooN)

232 201 Henry VIII capitalized on grassroots anti-Papal feeling that had been building in England for a long time. Even in the mid-fifteenth century, people were prone to saying things like, "The Pope's curse would not kill a fly", and were resentful of the expansion of the rich and powerful monastic establishments.
Posted by: Captain Obvious at July 21, 2019 10:44 AM (iB1oa)
______

The "grassroots" part is a myth. The peasantry weren't on board, at all, revolting against the King. It was merchants and nobles who drove the Reformation.

C S Lewis points out that one of the shrewd things Elizabeth did was resist further liturgical changes, which the common people would notice, more than theological ones, which they wouldn't.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 10:58 AM (VaN/j)

233 @223
I think it's the concept of specialization.
Stone age people (even today) are using all their efforts trying to survive. When people can lay off tasks to others, everyone gets more efficient as a whole.

Posted by: artemis at July 21, 2019 10:59 AM (AwPyG)

234 > Secular rulers had to do the dirty work
If it's done at the behest of the church, it doesn't matter who actually lights the fire.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:59 AM (GDooN)

235 Speaking of concepts of time, my daughter is managing some greenhouses in Denali Park for a lodge 90 miles into the sticks. Even though the growing season is short in terms of number of days, the length of the summer days means that something taking at least three weeks to grow here is ready ten days after being put in the ground.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:03 AM (y7DUB)

236 How to open a book: new technology requires tech support

https://youtu.be/pQHX-SjgQvQ

Posted by: Kindltot at July 21, 2019 11:03 AM (vJw+j)

237 The best thing about history is that it keeps changing. Gotta be on your toes to study history.

Posted by: klaftern at July 21, 2019 11:04 AM (RuIsu)

238 223
One of the most interesting aspects of reading journals from the 1700s
is how different their perception of time was. We get irritated if it
takes a few extra seconds to load a website. They could take days and
weeks to accomplish 'simple' matters like providing clothing for a
family or adding to a house, or just getting to the next town. It is one
of the biggest disconnects between today and the past. Hell, just
getting a wood or coal burning stove ready for use took knowledge and
time.



I'm not saying it was better back then but it certainly is different.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 10:53 AM (bmdz3)

---
Dafoe's Diary of the Plague Year is great. Fairly quick read, too.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:04 AM (HIUfw)

239 I have spent the past several weeks enjoying the Moron Recommended "Martha's Vineyard Mystery" series by Philip R. Craig.

These are enjoyable but not overly-challenging mysteries and involve the main characters doing a lot eating and imbibing of spirits between solving murders.

Right now I'm on Book 7, Death on a Vineyard Beach. I believe there are about 19 books in all.

I particularly enjoy the time setting the book series began in: back in the late 80s before the internet. The protagonist actually uses the library to find out information!

Posted by: Elinor, Who Usually Looks Lurkily at July 21, 2019 11:05 AM (NqQAS)

240 228
The point is that Tudor apologists have to fall back on "Well, other than the systematic execution of people who refused to bow to the new religion (which included Protestant dissenters as well as Catholic), Elizabeth was a pretty decent ruler."

They never say why that was do damn important. It wouldn't have been hard to make the "problem" go away and nothing much would have changed.

Well, the Crown would have had less money and power, which is why she was willing to kill to keep both.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:56 AM (HIUfw)
________

To be fair to Elizabeth, it's understandable why she was paranoid about her position, given her upbringing. And she pretty much knew that had she gone the other way, there were many in the new nobility who would have been quick to off her.

Once again, for the umpteenth time, I'll recommend the intro Lewis wrote to his OHEL volume. It's online, and should be mandatory reading in all schools. As usual, he tries to be evenhanded, though later in the volume his Anglican allegiance does show. But then, it's especially strong when speaking of Hooker, who has got to be one of the most sympathetic Protestants to a Catholic.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:05 AM (VaN/j)

241 Captain Hate, we're talking weed, aren't we?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 11:06 AM (kQs4Y)

242 that pic of the books reminded me a the "five foot shelf" of books, which I had to Bing to realize is just "The Harvard Classics". The whole set is on Ebay for $240 delivered, or online for free.


I have so much stacked up to read, I'd need the super condensed versions to get through them. But I learn a lot just listening to the moron horde scholars discuss Europe's evolution, and "contextualizing" some of the little history I did learn.


My summary is the America emerged as exceptional out of a revolution against the kings and popes pretending to be Divine, or at least pretending to be the middleman. And what the left has done for 70 years (or since our founding) is to try to restore central control, put man "back in chains" of bondage to centralized government, where man is servant to the (fake) elite families.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 11:08 AM (Cus5s)

243 The other book might be _The Quest For Shakespeare_ by Joseph Pierce.

Both books are worth reading for a good background on Tudor England and the society thereof.

The thing is, both books tend to start a "question cascade" about how much we tend to ignore about history because we learn in history class about Henry VII, Henry VIII, Bloody Mary, and Elizabeth, but not the people who made up the country.

For instance: Shakespeare's wife's clan's head was so obvious in his recusancy that he was executed by the state for it. Which leads down to: wait, we thought Shakespeare didn't have much of a relationship with his wife (since we interpret all the evidence that way)... might that be wrong? But also goes on to "Wait, _England_ had clan groups and chieftains?" and "Ordinary people, not just high church officials, etc. and big-time aristocrats, were executed for their religion?"

Along the way you begin to think the Never-Stratfordians (I forget what the other term for them is) are full of bunkum.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Who Had A B-Wing, and Called It Brad at July 21, 2019 11:09 AM (Clxcy)

244 229 They could take days and weeks to accomplish 'simple' matters like providing clothing for a family or adding to a house, or just getting to the next town. It is one of the biggest disconnects between today and the past.


This may be oversharing but that's a point I used to yell at Mommy. She's the type who if she expects me at 5:00 is convinced by 5:15 that I'm dead in a ditch.

So I'd say this trip 200 years ago would take weeks, you wouldn't know what day I would arrive if the mail happened to get there faster than I did. I will not ever tell you when to expect me, just that I'll be visiting.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (fuK7c)
_______

I've seen that effect in people talking about naval history. Though in a sense they know it's not true, deep down people will often show there's an assumption that something like WWII communications were applicable to the age of sail.

One very significant fact that comes out, but is too often forgotten, is just how much an admiral or general on a foreign station WAS the government of his country. This is one area where Collingwood outshines Nelson, at least when Emma Hamilton came into the equation.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:09 AM (VaN/j)

245 I just discovered, thanks to Skip, that my1599 Geneva Bible is published by Tolle Lege

Posted by: Grannymimi at July 21, 2019 11:09 AM (u5LFV)

246 53 Reading 'Churchill Walking with Destiny'. At over a thousand pages, it is an extremely detailed look at his life, perhaps everything you ever wanted to know about Churchill and more. Andrew Roberts had access to far more source material than the many previous biographers which explains its length. Given that Churchill is one of the half dozen most important men in history, I am happy to dedicate the time to it. I have seen several interviews of Roberts and he seems to be genuinely enamored with Churchill and realizes how he did so much to save Western Civilization.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 21, 2019 09:24 AM (KnT4m)

A damn good book. I'm plowing my way through it now and because I routinely travel to OH on business I left my copy there and I read one to three chapters at a time per visit. I figure I'll be done by the end of the year.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:09 AM (/0HPZ)

247 LOL. No, more like legal crops. I didn't see any hiking around the tundra and arboreal forests. I'm not sure it can grow in those conditions even though it's called weed.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:11 AM (y7DUB)

248 237 The best thing about history is that it keeps changing. Gotta be on your toes to study history.
..

Just like the climate.

Posted by: AGW ALARMIST at July 21, 2019 11:11 AM (MAstk)

249 If it's done at the behest of the church, it doesn't matter who actually lights the fire.


Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:59 AM (GDooN)

---
Sure it does, because the king (or duke or whatever) is ultimately the one in charge and if the case seemed unjust (say a bishop settling scores) the crown would inflict a minor punishment.

And yes, there was an interplay here - the crown would finger somebody and have the Church investigate them for heresy because there was nothing else to go on, the Church would convict and then the guy would be duly executed.

The Templars are the perfect example of this.

The point is that church and state were at least rival centers of power, as opposed to the Protestant model with merged the two.

That's why I find it ironic that Protestant histories try to claim that they are free-thinking individualists and value the separation of church and state.

In practice, no. Separating church and state became a thing in the Americas because so many non-conformists fled (or were exiled) here. And Catholics were happy to see the benefit as well.

By the way, merging church and state made heresy (or nonconformism) outright treason, immediately punishable by death.

In Catholic areas, you could be a heretic and simply repent. Can't repent from treason, though.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:11 AM (HIUfw)

250 231 > Hell, just getting a wood or coal burning stove ready for use took knowledge and time.

Indeed. I grew up with wood-burning heat.
Eventually you get so good at it that you can wake up cold in the middle of the night, stir up the fire and add wood, and go back to bed without ever waking up completely.
I was a piker compared to earlier generations, though. Both of my great-grandmothers could do stuff like make cakes in a wood range, something that can't even imagine attempting (we had a propane cook stove by the time I came around).



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (GDooN)

=====

"The Man on the Train", mentioned earlier, targetted wood-burning families, using their own axe (blunt side) to kill them.

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 11:12 AM (3JbJY)

251 234 > Secular rulers had to do the dirty work
If it's done at the behest of the church, it doesn't matter who actually lights the fire.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:59 AM (GDooN)


We didn't do it.

Posted by: Billy Joel at July 21, 2019 11:12 AM (NWiLs)

252 179 A friend went to the USSR in the 70s, and said he
didn't see a single good looking girl. Even assuming exaggeration,
something has obviously changed. Does Communism, along with its other
crimes, destroy women's beauty, too?


Waitlist for woman is 5 years, Comrade.

Waitlist for good-looking woman, 2 years. And must be Inner Party member.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 21, 2019 10:30 AM (oVJmc)

Any kind of ripple in humanity terrifies the Left, which demands absolute uniformity. They CANNOT TOLERATE the idea that someone might be better off than someone else at...anything. Anne Applebaum put it best, perhaps, when she stated in an article something along the lines that even unusual beauty was something to fear in the Soviet Union.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:13 AM (/0HPZ)

253 The Irish Republic has reasons for being strictly neutral during WWII. They didn't sell materiel to the Nazis like the Swedes

And sending condolences on Hitlers death was a neat joke, no?

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 21, 2019 11:14 AM (0NKIC)

254 This week/month my husband has been absorbed in Middlemarch and banging on about the important "lessons" it teaches. We got into a bit of a disagreement about literature and lessons and how I couldn't point to a single person who made a great decision based on George Eliot, Jane Austen, Charles Dicken, or Steinbeck despite their exposure to the "lessons" taught. Madame Bovary has probably not dissuaded a single guy from marrying a pretty but social climbing young woman who does not live up to expectations (in fact demolishes his well being), so why on earth would Middlemarch keep young women from marrying useless scholars, especially when they also have money?

I'm ready to burn Middlemarch on the grill.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:15 AM (U7k5w)

255 234 > Secular rulers had to do the dirty work
If it's done at the behest of the church, it doesn't matter who actually lights the fire.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:59 AM (GDooN)
______

Actually, it does make a difference. The trouble with the secular rulers is that they cut corners the Church says they shouldn't. And the Church - even in corrupt eras - has a better record of consistency than politicians. E.g., the Inquisition was a barrier to witchcraft trials.

The other thing that Protestant histories don't notice about the early modern era is how much the Church in Catholic countries was dominated by the state. The days of Canossa were long gone. Catholic as well as Protestant countries tried to make the Church a department of state. They just couldn't quite make it stick. Odd, that.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:15 AM (VaN/j)

256 252 ... Anne Applebaum put it best, perhaps, when she stated in an article something along the lines that even unusual beauty was something to fear in the Soviet Union.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:13 AM (/0HPZ)

=====

I beg to differ, Kurt Vonnegut put it best, in "Harrison Bergeron" ...

Posted by: Kingsnake at July 21, 2019 11:15 AM (3JbJY)

257 Currently I'm dipping into the ghost stories of M.R. James, whose "Casting the Runes," for example, became the classic creep movie Curse of the Demon. His " 'Oh, Whistle, and I'll Come to You, My Lad' " is very readable still, and very disturbing.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (4c+5M)



Love MR James.

He's just the best for reading on a cool Fall or cold Winter night as the wind blows outside.


Wonderful writer as well as ghost story teller.

I particularly like the writing magic trick of showing you most, if not all, of the information then pull the readers thinking right out from under them. Boo!

"Oh, Whistle..." is a wonderful example of this.

If you've never reading it, try to find a version that doesn't have illustrations as they always manage to spoil the BOO!

Posted by: naturalfake at July 21, 2019 11:15 AM (2EMYr)

258
Any kind of ripple in humanity terrifies the
Left, which demands absolute uniformity. They CANNOT TOLERATE the idea
that someone might be better off than someone else at...anything. Anne
Applebaum put it best, perhaps, when she stated in an article something
along the lines that even unusual beauty was something to fear in the
Soviet Union.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:13 AM (/0HPZ)

---
And yet Applebaum is another raving Never Trumper now.

Orange Man Bad claims yet another formerly-respected author.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:16 AM (HIUfw)

259 127 Austin has a "Bookpeople" book store. It's pretty leftist. Downtown near Whole Foods and REI.
Posted by: lin-duh, was deplorable now a committed racist! at July 21, 2019 10:03 AM (UUBmN)

AUSTIN? The capital of the People's Republic of Travis County, "pretty Leftist"? NO!

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:16 AM (/0HPZ)

260 He is also startling to whistle showtunes....bleh

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:17 AM (U7k5w)

261 So is I bad thing to admit remembering those pants?

Posted by: Diogenes at July 21, 2019 11:17 AM (axyOa)

262 The thing is, both books tend to start a "question
cascade" about how much we tend to ignore about history because we learn
in history class about Henry VII, Henry VIII, Bloody Mary, and
Elizabeth, but not the people who made up the country.


Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Who Had A B-Wing, and Called It Brad at July 21, 2019 11:09 AM (Clxcy)

---
Yes, that's what I'm driving at. We have these assertions made up by Protestant historians assuring us that the "common people" absolutely wanted a reformation. Except there is zero proof of this, and in fact tons of proof of the opposite.

One of the reasons Henry (and Elizabeth) were so paranoid was that they knew the common people were unhappy with their religious policies. There were a number of local rebellions (naturally attributed to Jesuit spies - gotta have a scapegoat) in favor of restoring the faith of their ancestors.

They also had to kill a lot of their own clergy as well.

Again, historians tell us that other than these killings, everything was peachy.

Sure it was.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:21 AM (HIUfw)

263 One other thing about earlier times is that, reading either Pepys or William Byrd, it's pretty clear you were going around half-crocked most of the time. They needed a half pint of rum just to get through the ordeal of getting up in the morning. And didn't stop then. Kind of like being in college in the 70s.

Which brings up a point on which the Luddites had a case. Previous to the rise of factories, they would do their work at home. They had quotas. Some were assiduous, of course, but many lived as we students did in the 70s. They had Sundays off, of course, but would also "worship at the church of St Monday". Or Tuesday. Then it was all-nighters to make quota.

Factories meant they lost control of their working day, being always under the eyes of a boss. Kind of like Cube Land today. And so far as that one point goes, I'm sympathetic.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:21 AM (VaN/j)

264 Good grief it's hot.

Posted by: Weasel at July 21, 2019 11:21 AM (MVjcR)

265 238 ... "Dafoe's Diary of the Plague Year is great. Fairly quick read, too."

AH, Thanks for the suggestion.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 11:21 AM (bmdz3)

266 Good grief it's hot.
Posted by: Weasel

Amen, brutha.

Posted by: JT at July 21, 2019 11:24 AM (arJlL)

267 And yet Applebaum is another raving Never Trumper now.

Orange Man Bad claims yet another formerly-respected author.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:16 AM (HIUfw)

Applebaum always confused me in that regard. She writes good, quality, well researched books that extol the dangers of totalitarianism (Iron Curtain is a warning about what happens when civil society is destroyed - the Left and the U.S. government at ALL LEVELS is AT WAR with civil society and people better wake up and notice, but anyways) but she is still very much a Statist. I don't get it.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:24 AM (/0HPZ)

268 I was a piker compared to earlier generations, though. Both of my
great-grandmothers could do stuff like make cakes in a wood range,
something that can't even imagine attempting (we had a propane cook
stove by the time I came around).



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 10:57 AM (GDooN)

---
My grandmother had a wood-burning stove in her kitchen. She told me that they would bank up the fire and set a pot of water on it and then go out into the fields and pick the corn. By the time it was cleaned and ready the water was good and hot.

She said it was the best corn you could ever eat, cooking it that fresh.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:24 AM (HIUfw)

269 Glittering Images, by Camile Paglia. Something of an overview of art history while discussing what's wrong with modern art.

"One reason for the marginalization of the fine arts today is that artists are too often addressing other artists and the in-group of hip cognoscenti."

Or

"Nothing is more hackneyed than the liberal dogma that shock value confers automatic importance on an artwork."

Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:25 AM (JK7Jw)

270 As to the quote of Neal Stephenson up top - this will earn me the wrath of the thread, I suspect, but I hated Stephenson. Cryptonomicon had a lot of promise but I wound up hating the book. (Seriously. You do not need to spend ten-twelve pages describing how to eat Captain Crunch cereal.)

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at July 21, 2019 11:26 AM (/0HPZ)

271
Wolfus Aurelius,


If you like MR James, try-

"Antique Dust" by Robert Westall

He's just as good as James and somewhat similar. Excellent book of supernatural/ghost short stories. Wonderful writer.

You can find "AD" on Amazon on paper and the Kindle.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 21, 2019 11:26 AM (2EMYr)

272 265: I just bought a Kindle edition, I think I'll talk about it all day for weeks...

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:27 AM (U7k5w)

273 Factories meant they lost control of their working
day, being always under the eyes of a boss. Kind of like Cube Land
today. And so far as that one point goes, I'm sympathetic.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:21 AM (VaN/j)

---
Urbanization also killed the little garden common people had in their village. Instead of supplementing their diet with vegetables in their intensely-cultivated plot, they were forced to buy it out of their wages and they were at the mercy of the people shipping it into town.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:27 AM (HIUfw)

274 Re the pants, I narrowly escaped those but fashion for a kid in the early/mid 80s wasn't a hell of a lot better, especially when your mother made it her mission to make you look as retarded as possible due to a complete lack of fashion sense and inexplicable desire to sabotage all possibility of being accepted by my peers.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 21, 2019 11:28 AM (NWiLs)

275 She said it was the best corn you could ever eat, cooking it that fresh.


I believe that. We did an experiment in jr. high with test tubes and things that changed color which showed that corn was sugar on day one and starch on day two. I can't eat any other than same day corn.

I passed a farm stand in Pennsylvania the other day that had a corn sign up. It was a twisty fast two lane road with no easy turn-arounds but I thought, self, you'll be bound to see another farmstand with corn in this neck of the woods.

Guess what self didn't find.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:28 AM (fuK7c)

276 Elizabeth

Orange Lady bad !

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 11:29 AM (2DOZq)

277 Glittering Images, by Camile Paglia. Something of an overview of art history while discussing what's wrong with modern art.


Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:25 AM (JK7Jw)

---
I remember reading her back in the early 90s when p.c. culture first popped up.

It went away and we hoped it was gone forever, but like Sauron's orcs, they were simply multiplying their forces in the darkness, waiting for a chance to strike.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:29 AM (HIUfw)

278 From "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck" by Mark Manson:

By not giving a fuck that you feel bad, you short-circuit the Feedback Loop from Hell; you say to yourself, "I feel like shit, but who gives a fuck?" And then, as if sprinkled by magic fuck-giving fairy dust, you stop hating yourself for feeling so bad.

Wanting positive experience is a negative experience; accepting negative experience is a positive experience. It's what the philosopher Alan Watts used to refer to as "the backwards law" -- the idea that the more you pursue feeling better all the time, the less satisfied you become, as pursuing something only reinforces the fact that you lack it in the first place.

In my life, I have given a fuck about many things. I have also not given a fuck about many things. And like the road not taken, it was the fucks not given that made all the difference.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 14, 2019 09:01 AM (kQs4Y)


This concept, it shows up in various belief systems/therapeutic models. It can be extraordinarily useful, especially for those who spend lots of their time living in the past or the future.

I'd be curious where the author goes with it, what options he suggests for how to proceed once one stops "giving a f**k," because often that's a sticking point. Replacing one thing for another, having an approach to life that isn't just about not doing what has been problematic, but actually doing, you know, what is meaningful.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:29 AM (cY3LT)

279 249
The point is that church and state were at least rival centers of power, as opposed to the Protestant model with merged the two.

That's why I find it ironic that Protestant histories try to claim that they are free-thinking individualists and value the separation of church and state.

In practice, no. Separating church and state became a thing in the Americas because so many non-conformists fled (or were exiled) here. And Catholics were happy to see the benefit as well.

By the way, merging church and state made heresy (or nonconformism) outright treason, immediately punishable by death.

In Catholic areas, you could be a heretic and simply repent. Can't repent from treason, though.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:11 AM (HIUfw)
______

That is a truth people simply don't see. The actual separation of Church and State was an invention of the medieval West. You don't find it before that, or elsewhere. That it wasn't done as we do it is beside the point. Besides, it is actually true that the Church WAS independent of the state, and could stand up to it. Our system, OTOH, really has the Church as subject, just hoping that promises will be kept, if the courts will keep them. And many moderns hate that.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 11:30 AM (VaN/j)

280 Glittering Images, by Camile Paglia. Something of an overview of art history while discussing what's wrong with modern art.

"One reason for the marginalization of the fine arts today is that artists are too often addressing other artists and the in-group of hip cognoscenti."

Or

"Nothing is more hackneyed than the liberal dogma that shock value confers automatic importance on an artwork."
Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:25 AM (JK7Jw)


Hurricane Camille's art commentary is both learned and readable. Other than Robert Hughes, who died in 2012, I don't know of any other recent ones worth reading.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:30 AM (y7DUB)

281 268. An aunt used to cook many things in her very large fireplace, soups, vegetables and occasionally bread. I adored her. She taught me many skills that are growing in popularity today.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:31 AM (U7k5w)

282 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:11 AM (HIUfw)
______

You find it ironic because you're wrong.

Posted by: Can't resist temptation at July 21, 2019 11:32 AM (2DOZq)

283 Glittering Images, by Camile Paglia. Something of an overview of art history while discussing what's wrong with modern art.

"One reason for the marginalization of the fine arts today is that artists are too often addressing other artists and the in-group of hip cognoscenti."

Or

"Nothing is more hackneyed than the liberal dogma that shock value confers automatic importance on an artwork."
Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:25 AM (JK7Jw)


The good thing about Camille Paglia is that she is insightful and often right. The bad thing about Camille Paglia is that her writing is a terrible, painful slog.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:34 AM (cY3LT)

284 This has to be the coolest July in the PNW in years.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:35 AM (MAstk)

285 261 So is I bad thing to admit remembering those pants?

Posted by: Diogenes at July 21, 2019 11:17 AM (axyOa)


No, but if your mother made you wear them, I'd say she's guilty of a hate crime.

Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at July 21, 2019 11:35 AM (smcnr)

286 My most recent electric/nat gas bill was...


$47.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:36 AM (MAstk)

287
The good thing about Camille Paglia is that she is insightful and often right. The bad thing about Camille Paglia is that her writing is a terrible, painful slog.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:34 AM
(cY3LT)
Go cheap and read sections, no need to read every word.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:36 AM (U7k5w)

288 The bad thing about Camille Paglia is that her writing is a terrible, painful slog.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:34 AM (cY3LT)


She writes like she talks, which is so rapid fire that I'm surprised she doesn't have a major stuttering problem. I'm sure she told some early editors to fuck off before they stopped suggesting changes.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:38 AM (y7DUB)

289 My most recent electric/nat gas bill was...
$47.
Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:36 AM (MAstk)
~~~~~

Grrrrrrr.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:38 AM (sGotD)

290 284: It's shitty in the NYC metropolitan area. Hot, humid and still.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:38 AM (U7k5w)

291 "She said it was the best corn you could ever eat, cooking it that fresh."


still true I think, but now we have "supersweet" varieties. They are good even without cooking. I hope for a time we get back to a lot of local producers providing fresh from the garden, extended season options, as part of repopulating some of the rural communities.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 11:38 AM (Cus5s)

292 276 Elizabeth

Orange Lady bad !


Actually, the Orange People didn't come along until later, with the Glorious Revolution.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Who Had A B-Wing, and Called It Brad at July 21, 2019 11:39 AM (Clxcy)

293 She writes like she talks, which is so rapid fire that I'm surprised she doesn't have a major stuttering problem.

I love watching Paglia talk. People think I talk fast. I think my friends talk fast. Camille's like hold my beer.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:39 AM (fuK7c)

294 257 ... "Love MR James."

This is when ebooks are helpful. I just ordered a collection of MR James stories really cheap. If needed, I can always put the book on the list I keep handy to find on sale. (Yeah, I checked the local library. They only have him on downloadable audio books. I want to read the words.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 11:40 AM (bmdz3)

295 291: I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes it uncooked.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:40 AM (U7k5w)

296 Well, Glittering Images isn't too bad!

One thing I found interesting that might not have been intended by her is how the function of art in society changed over time. The statues we call Roman art were for a purpose, what we call Saxon art is often in the form of sword fittings and dress brooches. We'd call this craft today. A huge painting that consists of swirls done with ketchup would not be recognized by them, it's making me lean toward modern art as money laundering.

Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:41 AM (JK7Jw)

297 Word of the Day: Scopophilia - to derive aesthetic pleasure from looking at someone or something.

My version: Scopacetic - describing someone or something that is drool-worthy.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 11:41 AM (kQs4Y)

298 The statues we call Roman art were for a purpose


The funny thing is that they were entirely different in the day. We think of Roman sculpture as austere white marble. They were mostly painted, painted in gaudy whorehouse colors.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:43 AM (fuK7c)

299 Jersey corn and tomatoes are exceptional this year!

But I've got to tell you about the cantaloupe I got the other day. It was as big as a basketball and the price was $6.00 (!) I was going back and forth between the normal and gargantuan melons when the proprietor said, "Go for the big one, you won't regret it." LOL

I did, and it was the most delicious cantaloupe I have had in years. Tender, juicy and very sweet, and there was a tremendous amount of fruit--easily three regular melons worth.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:43 AM (sGotD)

300 A huge painting that consists of swirls done with ketchup would not be recognized by them, it's making me lean toward modern art as money laundering.
Posted by: Lirio100 at July 21, 2019 11:41 AM (JK7Jw)


The really horrible stuff I regard as trying to satisfy a numbnuts art teacher.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:43 AM (y7DUB)

301 Forgot the name of a movie about a Sgt and his squad of anti-aircraft artillery girls. But it has two versions, from Communist era and afterwards both which I watched and eithe is very watchable.
Anyway the Communist era women are what you would think, the later version with western style women are quite attractive especially compared to the early version.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 11:44 AM (BbGew)

302 The good thing about Camille Paglia is that she is insightful and often right. The bad thing about Camille Paglia is that her writing is a terrible, painful slog.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:34 AM
(cY3LT)
Go cheap and read sections, no need to read every word.
Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:36 AM (U7k5w)


My brain doesn't work that way. I'm a slow reader, and can't "skip words," which is how I assume lots of folks manage to read as fast as they do.

Every article in every sentence, every side note, every tangent. I gotta follow them. I've come to accept it as a blessing and a curse.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:44 AM (cY3LT)

303 286 My most recent electric/nat gas bill was...


$47.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:36 AM (MAstk)


My lowest ones are about $75 in the spring and fall when I'm not even running the heater or air conditioner.

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2019 11:45 AM (sdi6R)

304 299: I try to get to the CSA before anyone else does, the purple cherry tomatoes tasted like berries! I know tomatoes are fruits, but when they're very fresh I understand this better. I haven't found corn yet.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:45 AM (U7k5w)

305 " My most recent electric/nat gas bill was...
$47. "

Do you bathe?

Posted by: pawn at July 21, 2019 11:46 AM (PveK5)

306 Forgot the name of a movie about a Sgt and his squad of anti-aircraft artillery girls. But it has two versions, from Communist era and afterwards both which I watched and eithe is very watchable.
Anyway the Communist era women are what you would think, the later version with western style women are quite attractive especially compared to the early version.
Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 11:44 AM (BbGew)


"The Dawns Here Are Quiet."

I've watched the newer version, and have the older version around here.

Seems the actresses they got to play the parts of the newer versions were NOT just selected for their acting ability. I believe the older version, they were made to look the part of badass gals.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:46 AM (cY3LT)

307 Jersey corn and tomatoes are exceptional this year!

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:43 AM (sGotD)

Corn is good, but I haven't had a good tomato yet. My local farm assures me that the good ones will be here this week!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (wYseH)

308 The good thing about Camille Paglia is that she is
insightful and often right. The bad thing about Camille Paglia is that
her writing is a terrible, painful slog.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:34 AM (cY3LT)

---
I liked the columns she used to write. Some people are better at essays than long-form books. I've never read one of her books cover-to-cover, just selected essays, which are quite good.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (SEYt0)

309 Are we talking art? !

Get a load of these pics of everyone's favorite Spirit cooker, Marina Abramovic of Podesta fame, and Lady Gaga (!)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y5jzt4jr

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (sGotD)

310 " it is actually true that the Church WAS independent
of the state, and could stand up to it. Our system, OTOH, really has
the Church as subject, just hoping that promises will be kept, if the
courts will keep them. And many moderns hate that." Posted by: Eeyore


One can be Catholic or Protestant without fear of government or pope ... in America today. Wasn't that much less true of earlier Europe?


Being Catholic under Protestant royalty, or (Catholic) Luther under the Pope (and I guess secular government) ... seemed to make life much more difficult than it would be today in USA (if there were still so many men with such conviction).

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (Cus5s)

311 My next bill will be north of $200, I'm sure. I don't care. As long as the air conditioner keeps working, that's all that matters.

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2019 11:48 AM (sdi6R)

312 Seems the actresses they got to play the parts of the newer versions were NOT just selected for their acting ability. I believe the older version, they were made to look the part of badass gals.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:46 AM (cY3LT)


Oh, heh. That's what you already said.

I was in a hurry to reply, didn't quite absorb what you were saying. So yeah, if one is inclined, watch the newer version first. It doesn't pull any punches, literally or figuratively.

I'll get to the older one sooner or later, but yeah, Ludmilla the shotput gal is the look they were going for in that one.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:49 AM (cY3LT)

313 Corn is good, but I haven't had a good tomato yet. My local farm assures me that the good ones will be here this week!


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (wYseH)

---
...and were in the gardening thread!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:49 AM (SEYt0)

314 back amongst civilization. yippie!

Posted by: chavez the hugo at July 21, 2019 11:49 AM (KP5rU)

315 OM, Thanks for the Book Thread. I should write that every week. It is one of the high points of my weekend and has led to so many hours of pleasurable reading.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 11:50 AM (bmdz3)

316 Dread0 at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (Bptbo)

Have you read Robert Spencer's book, "The Truth About Mohamed"?It seems to be well researched and is quite interesting.

Posted by: Grannymimi at July 21, 2019 11:50 AM (u5LFV)

317 > Anyway the Communist era women are what you would think
The Communists in general were very secretive about their women. If I'm remembering right, Gorby's wife Raisa was the first one who actually had a real media presence. Good-looking woman. I imagine she was quite fetching when she was young.

The women who appeared in Soviet propaganda photos and films for, e.g. killing 72 Germans in their sleep, definitely fell in the Megan Rapinoe region of the spectrum that goes from 80's Phoebe Cates on one end to Helen Thomas on the other.



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (GDooN)

318 Corn is good, but I haven't had a good tomato yet. My local farm assures me that the good ones will be here this week!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (wYseH)
~~~~~

I've been using mostly plum tomatoes. Very meaty and flavorful. The few medium Jerseys I've had were very good also but the plums were better.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (sGotD)

319 Have you read Robert Spencer's book, "The Truth About Mohamed"?It seems to be well researched and is quite interesting.


Posted by: Grannymimi at July 21, 2019 11:50 AM (u5LFV)

---
It was a quick read, but a little repetitive to my recollection as Spencer likes to pause and say "SEE! THIS IS THEIR IDEAL GUY!!!"

But he has a point.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (SEYt0)

320 She writes like she talks, which is so rapid fire that I'm surprised she doesn't have a major stuttering problem.
---------------------------
I love watching Paglia talk. People think I talk fast. I think my friends talk fast. Camille's like hold my beer.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:39 AM (fuK7c)


I think that might be it, and for me at least, I can handle it when people talk that way. There is all the non-verbal communication going on, so my brain can take it in more clearly and cleanly. With writing, it's all about the words, and I tend to have to be able to "walk the walk" with the author, so to speak.

And with someone like Camille, after a while I'm just "yeah, I'm out."

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (cY3LT)

321 I love watching Paglia talk. People think I talk fast. I think my friends talk fast. Camille's like hold my beer.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:39 AM (fuK7c)

---
I find her voice grating. Prefer to read her.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:53 AM (SEYt0)

322 313: We could turn it into a MFK Fisher discussion and book it up a bit.

I agree with JTB about the book thread and I am always happy to immediately look to buy some of the suggestions cheaply. Ordered the Dafoe for Kindle.
And many thanks for the Grossman suggestions of last week. With the yutes expounding on the need for collectivism, I think it's good to read about the hideousness that it brings instead.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:53 AM (U7k5w)

323 The women who appeared in Soviet propaganda photos
and films for, e.g. killing 72 Germans in their sleep, definitely fell
in the Megan Rapinoe region of the spectrum that goes from 80's Phoebe
Cates on one end to Helen Thomas on the other.


Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (GDooN)

---
That old Wendy's commercial - back when corporations openly took America's side.

"Next we have, day wear!"

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (SEYt0)

324 Corn is good, but I haven't had a good tomato yet. My local farm assures me that the good ones will be here this week!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (wYseH)
~~~~~

I've been using mostly plum tomatoes. Very meaty and flavorful. The few medium Jerseys I've had were very good also but the plums were better.
Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (sGotD)


This has been the worst tomato year I can recall.

Lots of soggy pink slop. Even the grape/cherry tomatoes are weak and lame.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (cY3LT)

325 Have Robert Spencer's History of Jihad, should do a reread.

Posted by: Skip at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (BbGew)

326 I love watching Paglia talk. People think I talk fast. I think my friends talk fast. Camille's like hold my beer.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 11:39 AM (fuK7c)

She's a treasure. A true liberal intellectual.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (H8QX8)

327 318: The cherry tomatoes from the CSA were wildly delicious. Even my 4yo grandson gobbled them up!

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (U7k5w)

328 I've never read one of her books cover-to-cover, just selected essays, which are quite good.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (SEYt0)


I can only read a page or two of Sexual Personae at a time because it's such a dense supersaturated distillation of knowledge. Like BurtTC I'm hardwired to not skim; or at least when I catch myself doing that I don my hair shirt and continue.

Proust's prose is like that, only fiction and translated.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (y7DUB)

329 Do you bathe?
Posted by: pawn at July 21, 2019 11:46 AM (PveK5)


Heh

We have all LED bulbs and do not use heat/AC in the summer.

May-Sept my bills are all around $45 to $50.

I think we have the 2nd lowest energy rates in the country.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (MAstk)

330 My rural electric charges $43 just for the facility charge ... but in my case, there are six poles to get down my lane, so they probably lose money on my service, especially with the storm that took down half of them, and the woodpeckers doing damage.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (Cus5s)

331 > I imagine she was quite fetching when she was young.
www.gorby.ru/userfiles/18008w.jpg
Yeah, that's a 1.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 11:56 AM (GDooN)

332 Skimmed through We Reach the Moon, might sit down and read it all soon.

Looking like I won't get anything published and printed for the Kindle Storyteller contest. Oh well will just keep writing I guess.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 11:57 AM (cH3lq)

333 Last winter my highest bill was $147

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:57 AM (MAstk)

334 I'm on the budget plans for both gas and electric, so I pay the same price every month, which together comes to just over $300.00.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:58 AM (sGotD)

335 Are we talking art? !

Get a load of these pics of everyone's favorite Spirit cooker, Marina Abramovic of Podesta fame, and Lady Gaga (!)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y5jzt4jr
Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (sGotD)


What the hell are we looking at here?

Wait, don't tell me. I don't really remember what the spirit cooking concept was about, and I think my life without such knowledge will be just fine.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (cY3LT)

336 One can be Catholic or Protestant without fear of government or pope ...
in America today. Wasn't that much less true of earlier Europe?
---
It's not as true today as it was ten years ago.

It's interesting to me that the anti-David French movement is being led by Catholic conservatives.

A lot of his defenders are Protestant and he spends most of his days picking on Evangelicals for not obeying his orders.

Of course there are Catholics who are happy to submit like Ed Morrissey and then you have Pelosi and Biden claim to be Catholic but we all know how deep that runs.

Some of these disputes go back a long way.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (SEYt0)

337 Lots of soggy pink slop. Even the grape/cherry tomatoes are weak and lame.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (cY3LT)
~~~~~

Where are you, Burt?

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (sGotD)

338 This has to be the coolest July in the PNW in years.
Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:35 AM (MAstk)

****

No kidding. Summer arrived yesterday.

Posted by: Diogenes at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (axyOa)

339 327 318: The cherry tomatoes from the CSA were wildly delicious. Even my 4yo grandson gobbled them up!
Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (U7k5w)


Confederate States of America?

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (cY3LT)

340 Wait, don't tell me. I don't really remember what
the spirit cooking concept was about, and I think my life without such
knowledge will be just fine.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (cY3LT)

---
My wife's been digging into Epstein stuff and keeps telling me about it and other depravities and I keep telling her I don't need to know. I'm already at the appropriate level of anger and don't need to have a rage stroke.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (SEYt0)

341 Lots of soggy pink slop. Even the grape/cherry tomatoes are weak and lame.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:54 AM (cY3LT)
~~~~~

Where are you, Burt?
Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (sGotD)


St. Louis.

For now.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:02 PM (cY3LT)

342 Between the utility bills and the PNW weather, I'm beginning to think Ha is a troll. A very, very mean troll.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 12:02 PM (sGotD)

343 I usually have one summer and one winter bill in the $200 range, but most of them are less than that.

Posted by: rickl at July 21, 2019 12:02 PM (sdi6R)

344 Ii think I'll go with a large tomato and cucumber salad for lunch, even add some peach slices for an even fruitier experience, then kick back and read the Defoe book. Too hot to garden, so it's a reading afternoon.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:04 PM (U7k5w)

345 Wait, don't tell me. I don't really remember what
the spirit cooking concept was about, and I think my life without such
knowledge will be just fine.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (cY3LT)

---
My wife's been digging into Epstein stuff and keeps telling me about it and other depravities and I keep telling her I don't need to know. I'm already at the appropriate level of anger and don't need to have a rage stroke.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (SEYt0)


My problem is, I have professional knowledge of much of this type of depravity... and I sometimes forget other people don't.

It's often refreshing being around people who don't, but I can't quite turn it off in my head either, that it might be lurking... anywhere. Everywhere.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:04 PM (cY3LT)

346 Skimmed through We Reach the Moon, might sit down and read it all soon.

Looking
like I won't get anything published and printed for the Kindle
Storyteller contest. Oh well will just keep writing I guess.


Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 11:57 AM (cH3lq)

---
My 5th Grade English text book was from 1967 or thereabouts (we were the last class to use it) and it had speculative stories about what the moon might be light and artists' renditions of the suits and ships that would reach it.

All badly off.

Interestingly, there was a lot about sea exploration and the like. Ocean-floor communities and other odd stuff.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:04 PM (SEYt0)

347 OT: cool tiger photo and one Photoshop!
https://twitter.com/Wadsworthish/status/
1152958857838235648

Posted by: andycanuck at July 21, 2019 12:04 PM (Dh1wo)

348 >>I haven't had a good tomato yet


In NJ?

Crazy. The local farms have been putting out nice heirlooms for the past 2-3 weeks.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (yE4ie)

349 310 " it is actually true that the Church WAS independent
of the state, and could stand up to it. Our system, OTOH, really has
the Church as subject, just hoping that promises will be kept, if the
courts will keep them. And many moderns hate that." Posted by: Eeyore


One can be Catholic or Protestant without fear of government or pope ... in America today. Wasn't that much less true of earlier Europe?


Being Catholic under Protestant royalty, or (Catholic) Luther under the Pope (and I guess secular government) ... seemed to make life much more difficult than it would be today in USA (if there were still so many men with such conviction).
Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 11:47 AM (Cus5s)
_______

The trouble with that is that it is entirely dependent on how many boogers Roberts has up his left nostril the day a case is decided. And really, it has always been so, here as elsewhere. In our system, the churches act at the sufferance of the state. That is inherent in modern models of politics, of every stripe.

And that's the point people just don't get about the Middle Ages. The modern system is something that arose in, well, the early modern era. Before that, the situation was very different. People have trouble taking this in, the idea that political sovereignty might not be defined as we define it.

Their way of doing things had its own problems, of course, but it's a mistake to read our conceptions back on earlier times. Strictly speaking, "feudal despotism" is an oxymoron. We tend to look at some features of Medieval Europe and see parallels with totalitarianism. Well, some of the parallels may be real, but the conclusion that it was totalitarian is false. That was impossible under the extreme decentralization of the day, which was nontheless heirarchical.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (VaN/j)

350 342 Between the utility bills and the PNW weather, I'm beginning to think Ha is a troll. A very, very mean troll.
..

Dead serious.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (MAstk)

351 A lot of his defenders are Protestant and he spends most of his days picking on Evangelicals for not obeying his orders.

Other than a few breakaway sects, Evangelicals are the only Protestants that adhere to what I consider not having a lava light conception of right and wrong. I was confirmed an Episcopalian and early on I saw those jizzmops perverting everything to hang with the kewel kidz. Then as now, fuck that shit.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (y7DUB)

352 Wait, don't tell me. I don't really remember what
the spirit cooking concept was about, and I think my life without such knowledge will be just fine.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 11:59 AM (cY3LT)
------------
My wife's been digging into Epstein stuff and keeps telling me about it and other depravities and I keep telling her I don't need to know. I'm already at the appropriate level of anger and don't need to have a rage stroke.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (SEYt0)
~~~~~

I understand. I was reading a Vanity Fair article about Epstein and it noted that Elon Musk was at Epstein's house and said it was unremarkable except for "weird art."

There has to be a connection between Epstein and Podesta.

The mind reels.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (sGotD)

353 >>This has to be the coolest July in the PNW in years.


It's over, now...but damn, what an awesome year.

10 days or less of July is a great thing.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:06 PM (yE4ie)

354 317
The women who appeared in Soviet propaganda photos and films for, e.g. killing 72 Germans in their sleep, definitely fell in the Megan Rapinoe region of the spectrum that goes from 80's Phoebe Cates on one end to Helen Thomas on the other.



Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at July 21, 2019 11:52 AM (GDooN)
_______

I don't know. Helen Thomas might have been quite the hottie in the Pierce administration.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:07 PM (VaN/j)

355 so much for that.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at July 21, 2019 12:07 PM (KP5rU)

356 Only Louisiana has cheaper electric rates than WA.

Problem is they need to run AC all summer, we don't.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 12:07 PM (MAstk)

357 339 Community Supported Agriculture. There is a small farm near me that has a program. I put up some money early in the season and get a 15% bonus toward purchases throughout the summer. I always spend in excess, but the tomatoes, Romanesco, and beans can't be beat.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:07 PM (U7k5w)

358 Anyway, thanks to Oregon Muse for the book thread, and thanks to CBD for whatever he did too.

One last note before I reboot and do some OS reinstallation:

I'm gonna avoid talking about Neal Stephenson for now. All I really feel like saying, though, is the Silicon Valley Zeitgeist bugs me now. Back in the 90's when they were pretending to still be libertarians, it was kind of new-ish, at least, but it's old now.

(Out of curiosity, what does he say about Virtual Currencies these days? Is he shrieking like an old woman about bitcoin the way HN does now about its energy use?)

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, Who Had A B-Wing, and Called It Brad at July 21, 2019 12:07 PM (Clxcy)

359 >>Only Louisiana has cheaper electric rates than WA.


Those damns aren't gonna be there forever.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:08 PM (yE4ie)

360 Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:06 PM (yE4ie)

I'm happy as long as there is no smoke.

But we still have to get through August.

Gulp.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 12:08 PM (MAstk)

361 dams

...silly phone.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:08 PM (yE4ie)

362 Those damns aren't gonna be there forever.
..

Heh and their rates are only cheaper by a fraction of a penny.

Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 12:09 PM (MAstk)

363 >>I'm happy as long as there is no smoke.


Some from Canada, early this spring...but, so far no big fires.


Don't worry. The Forest Service will make sure a few get going and then get out of control before long.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:09 PM (yE4ie)

364 One good thing about this surface of the sun with humidity weather is it gives one the excuse to stay inside, read, and take a nap while waiting for the Nats game on the radio. Not to mention enjoying pleasant conversations on the various Sunday threads.

Posted by: JTB at July 21, 2019 12:09 PM (bmdz3)

365 Confederate States of America?
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (cY3LT)


"Community-supported agriculture". Can mean a farmer's market or a weekly produce delivery from a farm network, or just a weekly delivery from a particular farm, depending on what's in the area.

It also can be a source of confusion when you're talking online about food home deliveries to people with disabilities, because in some countries it immediately connotes "child sexual assault". It turns out that it's less confusing to ask if the farmer can prepare produce before delivery than to recommend asking around for a CSA in the area.

Posted by: hogmartin at July 21, 2019 12:11 PM (t+qrx)

366 A.H Lloyd, a second century Greek satirist named Lucian had a story in which the inhabitants of the Moon rode atop three-headed vultures.

We have since learned so much about the planets but at the same time killed the wonder early science fiction writers had of the same planets. Even Lowell's canals and Bradbury's Martians are just fleeting grains of sand caught in the the zephyr of information the robotic children of the Apollo program have given us.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 12:13 PM (cH3lq)

367 The local farms have been putting out nice heirlooms for the past 2-3 weeks.

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (yE4ie)

It has been a very cool summer so far.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 21, 2019 12:13 PM (wYseH)

368 As wrong as I think much of Catholicism is, the thing is, I think the Protestants didn't go far enough either, and the 95 theses should have just been the start of getting back to individuals studying on their own, defying centralized authority as necessary.


my simple version compares that to our efforts to regain original intent at SCOTUS, and individuals must learn that in schools. Instead we have centralize Commie Core.


But what central power does do on the positive side, is it can unite people, and it is more powerful. Gorsuch did his (JD thesis?) early study directly under some Catholic scholar. Perhaps that Catholic jurisprudence is some trend that has propelled the dominance of Catholic Supremes, and perhaps there is no such Protestant school that leads toward conservative "judicial restraint", or whatever it is that has led to zero Protestants at the supreme level. (Gorsuch switched recently, raised his kids Catholic, not sure what his deal is exactly, but his foundation is Catholic)


The more Pope John Paul oriented judges maybe serve us well, and have more necessary and powerful backing, as seems evident in that no Protestants survive the selection process. In any case, I sure don't see religious free for the individual as anything but MORE free in the USA than it was in Europe. (even with the internet censorship trend, though that is a threat. And French and the lesbian protestants, is more indicative of the advantage of decentralized control ... free choice, but they should at some point drop the Christian fake label)

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (Cus5s)

369 Sorry, Anna. Bradbury's Martians are still waiting.

Posted by: pawn at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (PveK5)

370 Am I the only person who gets an intense blood pressure spike when encountering the word "cuppa" for cup of coffee?

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (y7DUB)

371 They are waiting only if we get off this mudball before blowing ourselves up.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 12:16 PM (cH3lq)

372 Their way of doing things had its own problems, of
course, but it's a mistake to read our conceptions back on earlier
times. Strictly speaking, "feudal despotism" is an oxymoron. We tend to
look at some features of Medieval Europe and see parallels with
totalitarianism. Well, some of the parallels may be real, but the
conclusion that it was totalitarian is false. That was impossible under
the extreme decentralization of the day, which was nontheless
heirarchical.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:05 PM (VaN/j)

---
Taking this back to the earlier discussion about the Tudors, consider the difference between what happened when Thomas Becket was murdered vs the wholesale slaughter of clergy by Henry and Elizabeth.

Church and state acted as a check on each other and neither were monolithic.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:16 PM (SEYt0)

373 365: My local group, doesn't force you to take okra. One of the other groups gives you a share of everything, and I don't care for okra or summer squash. They are also a very (quietly) conservative family, so I like the idea that greenie libs are fronting money and then spending the summer at the shore and losing the cash. I can get all the tomatoes I want, and the lettuce has been great too.
I have never heard of CSA used for assault, btw.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:17 PM (U7k5w)

374 There's one thing I know I'm missing, which is liking tomatoes. (My brother is the same way; there may be something chemical going on.) But unlike other foods I cannot stand, I can see that the pleasure others get (like my wife does and my mother did) is real.

Now, I've had some tell me "You haven't had a good one." Actually, I have, and they are much the worst. If you cannot stand a flavor, the more you get, the worse it is.

The thing is that everyone can see this about food, if we think about it. But somehow with books or music it gets missed. Not that there is no such thing as good taste. But that is a matter of whether you can see a thing is well done or not. If you don't like the kind of thing it is, though, there's nothing to say.

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:18 PM (VaN/j)

375 St Thomas a Becket in the first two pictures here...
https://twitter.com/41Strange/status/
982396461789822976

Posted by: andycanuck at July 21, 2019 12:21 PM (Dh1wo)

376 I don't know. Helen Thomas might have been quite the hottie in the Pierce administration.
Posted by: Eeyore

Care to see my beautifully bound volumes of etchings of a beautifully bound Miss Thomas?

Posted by: William Matthews, famous bookbinder at July 21, 2019 12:21 PM (7Llwi)

377 Confederate States of America?
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:01 PM (cY3LT)

"Community-supported agriculture". Can mean a farmer's market or a weekly produce delivery from a farm network, or just a weekly delivery from a particular farm, depending on what's in the area.

It also can be a source of confusion when you're talking online about food home deliveries to people with disabilities, because in some countries it immediately connotes "child sexual assault". It turns out that it's less confusing to ask if the farmer can prepare produce before delivery than to recommend asking around for a CSA in the area.
Posted by: hogmartin at July 21, 2019 12:11 PM (t+qrx)


Hmmm, never heard the term before.

Our local "farmer's markets" are often just providing the same produce the large grocery chains are.

There are genuine farmer's markets, but they're not all that convenient in terms of time and place. I'm going to stick with grocery chains, deal with the crappy produce for much of the year, and realize life's too short to fret over such things.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:22 PM (cY3LT)

378 Rocket Summer is a long time coming, if ever.

Posted by: pawn at July 21, 2019 12:22 PM (PveK5)

379 nood re. budget

Posted by: andycanuck at July 21, 2019 12:22 PM (Dh1wo)

380 372
Taking this back to the earlier discussion about the Tudors, consider the difference between what happened when Thomas Becket was murdered vs the wholesale slaughter of clergy by Henry and Elizabeth.

Church and state acted as a check on each other and neither were monolithic.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:16 PM (SEYt0)
_______

Wouldn't it be sweet to see, after the whole Russia story comes out, Obama being flogged publicly?

But that is the point. You cannot picture that happening to a modern head of state. Nor having one kneel in the snow to show repentance. And it's not just a P/C thing. Louis XVI was just as bad.

Of course, there has been a good side to the modern system; there always is. (Almost always, anyway.) But it depended on a culture which is clearly dying. What follows, who knows?

Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:22 PM (VaN/j)

381 No farmstands nearby, Burt?

Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:23 PM (yE4ie)

382 Am I the only person who gets an intense blood pressure spike when encountering the word "cuppa" for cup of coffee?
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (y7DUB)
~~~~~

Understandable. "Cuppa" indicates a cup of tea.

Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 12:23 PM (sGotD)

383 368
As wrong as I think much of Catholicism is, the thing is, I think the
Protestants didn't go far enough either, and the 95 theses should have
just been the start of getting back to individuals studying on their
own, defying centralized authority as necessary.


Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (Cus5s)

---
If you get a chance, take a look at Sohrab Amari's "Against David French-ism." It was featured at First Things, which is now a hotbed of Catholic revolutionary fervor.

Briefly, Amari's thesis is that modern liberals are actually true to Classical Liberals, they've simply followed their philosophy to its natural end.

If individual liberty is paramount, and any restriction must be cast aside, which includes *moral* restriction because that's a constraint on liberty.

And if you shackle state power, other sources of power will emerge - like mega-corporations who will use market power to punish those who they dislike.

It's a powerful essay and there's lots of other supporting discussion going on.

Tellingly, French isn't really engaging intellectually, but constantly telling everyone how moral he is personally, which means he's right.

And full disclosure: I'm a Catholic convert, raised by irreligious parents who despised organized religion (mom was raised Catholic, dad was a Methodist). My wife was raised Southern Baptist and both of us are very much at home in the Church. Of course YMMV.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 12:26 PM (SEYt0)

384 an extended CSA would be cool, extended to include dairy/poultry/beef ... maybe honey, flowers, whatever. Dairy has faced some government inspection concerns, but inspection is good (till the fed gestapo types get out of control, which maybe has happened). But extending to more than vegies would perhaps facilitate more viable year round production. And tech makes it easy to have live cams for people to see the food growing, plant and animal, and it personalizes the producer to consumer.


Keeping the "sustainable" commies out of the mix would be nice as well. Commies ruin everything they touch.

Posted by: illiniwek at July 21, 2019 12:28 PM (Cus5s)

385 Lowry's just smoking everyone at the British Open. Now there's just the PGA Championship and the majors are over for another year. Oh wait! Fucking PGA!

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:30 PM (y7DUB)

386 The thing is that everyone can see this about food, if we think about it. But somehow with books or music it gets missed. Not that there is no such thing as good taste. But that is a matter of whether you can see a thing is well done or not. If you don't like the kind of thing it is, though, there's nothing to say.
Posted by: Eeyore at July 21, 2019 12:18 PM (VaN/j)


Yeah, it's rather funny to me that we argue about such things. I am as guilty as anyone, when it comes to entertainment, because I find it amusing and at times, yes, fun to laugh at other people's "taste," especially in music.

I heard a discussion yesterday about Taylor Swift, and there was the preface to it by someone who was being critical, "she's a great artist, but..."

NO SHE'S NOT!

You can like her all you want, and I wish you well, but she produces garbage.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:31 PM (cY3LT)

387 Concerning the Amazon eReader freedom issues. I also have another observation. When Amazon (or Netflix for that matter) gives you a recommendation, it is based on 'others that bought this book also bought X'. What it doesn't tell you is if the reader liked it or even finished it. You may be able to tell through reviews, but many of them are paid or fake. I believe that this recommendation algorithm really limits the things you may be exposed to... based on metadata. Unlike this Bookthread, there is no real engagement.

Posted by: Rob at July 21, 2019 12:33 PM (QWpX/)

388 No farmstands nearby, Burt?
Posted by: garrett at July 21, 2019 12:23 PM (yE4ie)


I think they tend to frown on it here. I'm not sure. I don't often see them, or more accurately the ones I see with roadside displays, someone has a hand painted sign, but when I go by there ain't nobody and there ain't nothin' there.

I guess you have to seek them out early on Saturday mornings. That's not doable for me.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:34 PM (cY3LT)

389 I try not to criticize anyone's taste here because it's subjective and anyone here is deputized to call me out if they see me doing so. Likewise I don't respond well when mine is taken to task.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:37 PM (y7DUB)

390 Concerning the Amazon eReader freedom issues. I also have another observation. When Amazon (or Netflix for that matter) gives you a recommendation, it is based on 'others that bought this book also bought X'. What it doesn't tell you is if the reader liked it or even finished it. You may be able to tell through reviews, but many of them are paid or fake. I believe that this recommendation algorithm really limits the things you may be exposed to... based on metadata. Unlike this Bookthread, there is no real engagement.
Posted by: Rob at July 21, 2019 12:33 PM (QWpX/)


Seems to me Amazon fudges with their recommendations, and it isn't just books/movies/music. It's pretty much everything.

Try to find a decent pair of sox, in a color you want, and you get all sorts of recommendations that don't look anything like what you put in your search terms.

Why?

I'm guessing it's because Amazon has greater loyalty to their merchants than they do their customers, and figure we don't really know what we want. So they're going to guide us to the right side of things.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM (cY3LT)

391 Am I the only person who gets an intense blood pressure spike when encountering the word "cuppa" for cup of coffee?
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:15 PM (y7DUB)
~~~~~

Understandable. "Cuppa" indicates a cup of tea.
Posted by: IrishEi at July 21, 2019 12:23 PM (sGotD)



Eh. Watch some old B&W movies made here in the good old USA.

Someone's always asking for a "cuppa joe".

Slangy American meet Slangy Brit.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM (2EMYr)

392
Yay me!

I made delicious migas for brunch.


Satisfied tummies all around.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 21, 2019 12:41 PM (2EMYr)

393 Try to find a decent pair of sox, in a color you want, and you get all sorts of recommendations that don't look anything like what you put in your search terms.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM (cY3LT)


They all do it.

"You just bought a $300 vacuum cleaner. Here are a dozen other vacuum cleaners that you are very likely to buy too. We'll keep sending you emails every few days, tempting you with more and more vacuum cleaners to go with the one you just bought. Because you can never have too many vacuum cleaners."

Posted by: hogmartin at July 21, 2019 12:43 PM (t+qrx)

394 I try not to criticize anyone's taste here because it's subjective and anyone here is deputized to call me out if they see me doing so. Likewise I don't respond well when mine is taken to task.
Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 12:37 PM (y7DUB)


When I was younger, there were any number of rock bands that were quite popular, and I found enjoyment in much of what they did.

Some of it is just maturity, but it's easy to see now, how much of it really is just noisy garbage. I can get nostalgic about it though, and sometimes will still enjoy the garbage music of my youth, but I have no illusions about what it is.

So yeah, maybe I enjoy pointing it out more than I should. Especially today, when I actually feel sorry for the kids growing up, because it really has gotten steadily worse.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:43 PM (cY3LT)

395 Oooops.

Wrong thread.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (2EMYr)

396 How to open a new book - that's just what I was taught. Is it still considered right?

How do you do that on an e-book?

We're about to go visit my nephew & his spouse, in the City for the weekend, at my Mom's. Good way to spend a Sunday.
___

Speaking of cracking into new books, one sleepy evening, a relative forced The Urantia Book upon me.

"You have to read this book!" Uh-huh.

He handed me a brand-new copy, rather than his personal well-worn, dog-eared, and heavily-bookmarked first edition. Nice, quality hardcover volume (the only available format in those days).

So, for sake of peace with the relative (as in, get him to shut up), I sat down with the book.

I cracked that big new 2000-page hardback with respect, as I'd been taught.

Then I began to thumb about in it. "NO NO NO NO NO" interjected the lurking relative -- I had to start on page 1 of the Foreword. ohhhh-kayy...

The Foreword starts out simply enough, but quickly goes deep, foreshadowing as it does the concepts and neologisms of the 192 following 'papers.'

Foreword is heavy wading, in other words.

I'd traveled many miles that day. I'd had a beer or a puff, probably both.

Upshot: I was nose-down asleep on the book by page three. Big greasy nose and forehead print wrinkling the page. So much for new-book care.

He gave me that copy. Eventually, I did read it all.
__

Linked in nic: an old comic webwork of a trio of mind-travelers "Exploring the Foreword" - could be funny even if you don't know beans about the UB.

Posted by: mindful webworker - click for obscure funny at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (mZLmb)

397 "You just bought a $300 vacuum cleaner. Here are a dozen other vacuum cleaners that you are very likely to buy too. We'll keep sending you emails every few days, tempting you with more and more vacuum cleaners to go with the one you just bought. Because you can never have too many vacuum cleaners."
Posted by: hogmartin at July 21, 2019 12:43 PM (t+qrx)

After buying my truck I saw all kinds of Nissan ads on every computer I have. Which is weird because I didn't buy my truck on Amazon or anything.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (aurSP)

398 384: The farm I affiliated with pays lip service to the greenies. but I'd very pro Trump. The service extends to flowers. herbs. and eggs. but they don't sell meat, honey. or milk products. I join for my favorite produce, and because this one offers choice. If I had to take okra and kale I would skip the discount and just go to the farmers market in Trenton which does have meat and dairy.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (U7k5w)

399 figure we don't really know what we want. So they're going to guide us to the right side of things.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM


It's hard work, but someone's got to do it.

Sadly, 25+ million of you aren't guidable.

Posted by: Wm. "Bill" Ayers & The MSM at July 21, 2019 12:46 PM (35XGF)

400 Try to find a decent pair of sox, in a color you want, and you get all sorts of recommendations that don't look anything like what you put in your search terms.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM (cY3LT)

They all do it.

"You just bought a $300 vacuum cleaner. Here are a dozen other vacuum cleaners that you are very likely to buy too. We'll keep sending you emails every few days, tempting you with more and more vacuum cleaners to go with the one you just bought. Because you can never have too many vacuum cleaners."
Posted by: hogmartin at July 21, 2019 12:43 PM (t+qrx)


That stuff just makes me laugh. I've bought lots of things online, where really, any human knows you only need one. The algorithm keeps trying to sell me more, and I can't be mad at them. They'll figure it out.

But the recommendations thing, I believe there are humans who fudge the system so you get recommended, say, the newest Taylor Swift recording, when you've been buying Debussy and Tom Waits albums from your online retailer, and are not about to change over to blonde bubblegum airheads now.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:47 PM (cY3LT)

401 391: Gifting, invites, and folks annoying me much more than cuppa ever will

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:48 PM (U7k5w)

402 "I try not to criticize anyone's taste here because it's subjective"

And we appreciate it!

Posted by: OM's pants selections at July 21, 2019 12:50 PM (35XGF)

403 If I had to take okra and kale I would skip the discount and just go to the farmers market in Trenton which does have meat and dairy.
Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (U7k5w)


Egad, okra and kale are the devil's produce. Or a communist plot.

Or both.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:50 PM (cY3LT)

404 "No Forward!" screamed Bill Fawcett and every other writer at a panel I attended in reply to one struggling writer wanting to explain the whole back story for his space opera. Fawcett's wife went on to describe a Forward as this congealed lump of undigestable words.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 12:50 PM (kbJA/)

405 figure we don't really know what we want. So they're going to guide us to the right side of things.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:38 PM

It's hard work, but someone's got to do it.

Sadly, 25+ million of you aren't guidable.
Posted by: Wm. "Bill" Ayers & The MSM at July 21, 2019 12:46 PM (35XGF)


Seriously though, I've been looking at things through a Keynesian lens lately, and that helps me to understand the motivation behind much of this.

We'll get ours, let them get there's, and who cares where it all ends up, because by then we'll be dead and it won't matter anymore.

When seen from this view, the actions of our so-called left and right leaning parties start to make sense. We're just pawns in their chess game.

Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:56 PM (cY3LT)

406 403: Making this farm's policies worth joining up. Let the local libs eat okra at the shore.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:56 PM (U7k5w)

407 Hi,
I'm the one who wrote the comment about the Memorial of St. Helena. This is it on gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53967

Napoleon was considered a POW. He was guarded all the time. He expressed on a few occasions that he wished he'd been shot instead of exiled. It is good for history that he was exiled because we found out much about him including his own view of his life. He met many English who visited St Helena on the way to or from Europe, who requested to meet him. Some of them had been his military adversaries. He sometimes spent hours talking to them. P.S. He was not poisoned. That was debunked. He died of stomach cancer.

Posted by: microcosme at July 21, 2019 12:57 PM (B+xWY)

408 And communists seem to love kale.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 12:59 PM (U7k5w)

409 And opposing that probably does count as "plotting
against her," because when a crowned head makes themselves God's
representative on earth, we're all supposed to agree, right?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at July 21, 2019 10:19 AM (HIUfw)


As opposed to holding the franchise directly from the Pope, who was elected by the Cardinals from among their own members, I understand your concern.

You can hate the Tudors as much as you want, but Elizabeth was the compromise candidate. She had to hold a majority of her nobles, soldiers and moneymen together in a coalition, which meant she had to be traditional in stance, economically inoffensive, charismatic, and provide a chance for the military to earn loot and glory. The fact that she was a woman, was tasked with defending the coastline and Scottish border without a taxation system to support the expense and an exchequer that was exhausted by Henry VIII, and could not marry anyone without alienating a large chunk of her support made finding traditional ways of getting more money impossible and made ruling England hard.
In many ways I suspect she was managed by her advisors and supporters, but clearly did a lot to avoid being forced into decisions.


The age of religious wars was actually an age of determination of who held power in the state, and who held power over each state. While the Pope and the Church claimed supremacy, the Reformation was a drive by states for self determination in making decisions. Remember, the Pope and his Cardinals were humans and ran a bureaucracy, and though they claimed to speak for God, they had relations and homes and business interests. Not all their decisions were for the best of mankind, and not a few royal houses or branches were ended because of a decision of the Pope.

The Reformation did wind up bringing in a new view of the relationship of God and Man, which being raised a Protestant, I never realized was a thing until I wound up in a Catholic boys's school for a year. The Reformation moved the relationship from being intercession by Mary and the Saints to God, to being directly man to God via the sacrifice of Jesus. What started as a drive to force the Church to allow local decision making on dynastic and liturgical matters, became a cultural drive to allow personal conscience to religious observance instead of directed forms from Rome or Westminster ( or Aachen or wherever.) There was a justifiable fear that this religious stance would become a cultural one, that would shatter kingdoms, pull down thrones, and create anarchy.

Henry VIII created a powder keg through economic stress and declaring a state church, which Mary tried to suppress and reverse, which Elizabeth had to ride and keep under control. All the sectarian in-fighting and plotting and counter reformation moves, and the various factions and interests working for and against each other created huge stresses in society and threatened to spark of into a civil war, which had been avoided for quite a while.

That in the face of this Elizabeth didn't go full Red Queen and start taking heads from everyone who defied
her is a miracle, though she probably had the bad example of Mary and Henry VII ahead
of her to show where that one led to.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 21, 2019 01:01 PM (vJw+j)

410 I didn't mean Aachen, I meant some other, Lutheran, place. Sorry.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 21, 2019 01:03 PM (vJw+j)

411 So yeah, maybe I enjoy pointing it out more than I should. Especially today, when I actually feel sorry for the kids growing up, because it really has gotten steadily worse.
Posted by: BurtTC at July 21, 2019 12:43 PM (cY3LT)


I don't agree with this at all. Yes it's hard being original when everything's been done but strong musical voices with something to say will stand out.

As an example my wife and I took a cruise around the British islands in 2000. The music director on the small ship had local musical talent brought on board to perform. Some of them were traditional choral groups that I found a complete snooze while still being very well done. But at the Shetland Island a trio of young girl fiddlers and two of their's mother on piano, called Filska, were just outstanding playing their takes of the traditional genre. The lead fiddler, Jenna Reid, was obviously very talented (and cute) and I picked up a CD that I still listen to.

Thanks to the Internet I've sporadically checked up on them. I don't know if they're still a working group (they had subsequent releases and the group partially reformed with the mother dropping out) but thanks to Spotify I can listen to Jenna's further adventures.

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 21, 2019 01:07 PM (y7DUB)

412 Well, they did poison Nappy once he got to St. Helena.

More deniability that way.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at July 21, 2019 09:18 AM (I2/tG)

Why would they need deniability? Just hold a trial, convict him of waging war against Britain, and hang his runty ass.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at July 21, 2019 01:07 PM (abNpZ)

413 Eris, the only Simak I can remember off hand is Way Station. Iirc it was rather melancholy - part of the "humans are doomed to blow themselves up" genre
Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 09:21 AM (dm05u)

I remember reading "City" by Simak. Most humans have voluntarily left Earth to have their consciousness and personality transferred into creatures called "lopers" which inhabit the incredibly beautiful planet, Jupiter. Earth is left to the dogs, which are now fully sentient. and smart on a human level. The dogs all possess little robots called "hands" which enable them to do things that one needs hands to do.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at July 21, 2019 01:14 PM (abNpZ)

414 http://www.swoyersart.com/andrew_wyeth/dr_syn.htm
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 09:25 AM (kQs4Y)

The Doc is looking a little peaked. He needs a few good meals.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at July 21, 2019 01:18 PM (abNpZ)

415 I think we have the 2nd lowest energy rates in the country.
Posted by: HA at July 21, 2019 11:55 AM (MAstk)


But Kate is working on that.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 21, 2019 01:25 PM (vJw+j)

416 Simak and intelligent dogs with 'hands,' it set up a resonance in the memory banks nyah. So went padding over to the shelves to find the sympathetic story. In Before the Universe by Pohl and Kornbluth there is a short story called "Best Friend" in which humans have evolved into frail super intelligent beings while the dogs have been reshaped by the Masters to be their servants.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 01:25 PM (kbJA/)

417 I watched a interesting documentary on amazon prime based on this book:

Early Islamic Qiblas: A survey of mosques built between 1AH/622 C.E. and 263 AH/876 C.E.
By Dan Gibson

The theory is Petra not Mecca was the original prayer direction of the Mohammadans. His evidence is the prayer direction of early Mosques, lack of match between Quran and Meccan geography, and the Second Islamic Civil War.


Posted by: Dread0 at July 21, 2019 09:32 AM (Bptbo)

I would quibble with the way the dates are rendered in the title. Presumably "AH" is some sort of muzzie dating, but "CE" should be rendered as "AD". And since the intended audience for this book is presumably Christians, or non-Christians raised in a Christian environment, might as well set the muzzie date span in a set of brackets.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at July 21, 2019 01:28 PM (abNpZ)

418 [This was written by a women named Lucia Abell (nee Balcombe) who lived on St. Helena when she was 13. Her family became friends of Napoleon; she and her sister spoke French. Yes, Napoleon was guilt-tripping her but in those days I think it was normal to do that.]

"A day or two before we embarked, my father, my sister and myself rode to Longwood, to bid adieu to the emperor. He was in his billiard room, surrounded by books, which had arrived a few days before. He seemed much depressed at our leaving the island, and said he sincerely regretted the cause; he hoped my dear mother's health would soon be restored, and sent many affectionate messages to her, she being too ill to accompany us to Longwood. When we had sat with him some time, he walked with us in his garden, and with a sickly smile pointed to the ocean spread out before us, bounding the view, and said, "Soon you will be sailing away towards England, leaving me to die on this miserable rock. Look at those dreadful mountains--they are my prison walls. You will soon hear that the Emperor Napoleon is dead." I burst into tears, and sobbed, as though my heart would break. He seemed much moved at the sorry manifested by us. I had left my handkerchief in the pocket of my side-saddle, and seeing the tears run fast down my cheeks, Napoleon took his own from his pocket and wiped them away, telling me to keep the handkerchief in remembrance of that sad day.
We afterwards returned and dined with him. My heart was too full of grief to swallow; and when pressed by Napoleon to eat some of my favorite bon-bons and creams, I told him that my throat had a great swelling in it, and I could take nothing.
The hour of bidding adieu came at least. He affectionately embraced my sister and myself, and bade us not forget him; adding that he should ever remember our friendship and kindness to him, and thanked us again and again for all the happy hours he had passed in our society. He asked me what I should like to have in remembrance
of him. I replied, I should value a lock of his hair more than any other gift he could present. He then sent for
Monsieur Marchand, and desired him to bring in a pair of scissors and cut off four locks of hair for my father and mother, my sister, and myself, which he did. I still possess that lock of hair; it is all left me of the many tokens of remembrance of the Great Emperor.

Posted by: microcosme at July 21, 2019 01:29 PM (B+xWY)

419 I was putting away books and stumbled across what may be the lovecraftiest Lovecraft tale of all, The Thing on the Doorstep:

"It is true that I have sent six bullets through the head of my best friend, and yet I hope to shew by this statement that I am not his murderer. At first I shall be called a madman—madder than the man I shot in his cell at the Arkham Sanitarium.

...So I say that I have not murdered Edward Derby. Rather have I avenged him, and in so doing purged the earth of a horror whose survival might have loosed untold terrors on all mankind."


It's the usual unholy chowder of inbred Insmouthians, academics dabbling in dark arts they do not fully understand, and beings who violate the laws of earthly physics.

"What lay behind our joint love of shadows and marvels was, no doubt, the ancient, mouldering, and subtly fearsome town in which we lived—witch-cursed, legend-haunted Arkham, whose huddled, sagging gambrel roofs and crumbling Georgian balustrades brood out the centuries beside the darkly muttering Miskatonic."

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 01:32 PM (kQs4Y)

420 After buying my truck I saw all kinds of Nissan ads on every computer I have. Which is weird because I didn't buy my truck on Amazon or anything.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at July 21, 2019 12:44 PM (aurSP)


----------

Here are some more trucks that you might be interested in.

Posted by: Alexa at July 21, 2019 01:35 PM (v4v6L)

421 Eris, does your gambrel roof gambol?

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 01:40 PM (kbJA/)

422 421 Eris, does your gambrel roof gambol?
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 01:40 PM (kbJA/)
---
You should see what my groin vault get up to!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 01:44 PM (kQs4Y)

423 How to open a new "BOOK" yeah sure.........

Posted by: saf at July 21, 2019 01:46 PM (5IHGB)

424 Just downloaded and started reading Correira's Son of the Black Sword.

Great heavens, this is the same guy who wrote the MHI books? I swear, the style and even genre are totally different. Even not quite through the first chapter, I can say I'm unlikely to get much sleep tonight, even if there aren't any sequels -- and I think I saw one at Amazon.

Talk about developing as a writer -- this is astonishing, truly.

Posted by: Empire1 at July 21, 2019 01:47 PM (ZWw89)

425 Has anyone read any of Alan Furst's books? I've just started them and can't read them fast enough. They are historical spy novels set from the 1930's through WWII and tell the stories of spy activities with characters from communist parties, French resistence, Polish resistence - not normally the WWII characters we usually see.

Posted by: Russkilitlover at July 21, 2019 01:49 PM (99Nt9)

426 425: I thought about it and stopped myself after reading a brief bio of Furst and his "European sensibilities". I do not know this, but the synopses lead me to believe that he'd be lionizing communist types. I'm sure some did some good things during the war, but there are other things on my list.

Posted by: CN at July 21, 2019 02:02 PM (U7k5w)

427 Hmm. I wpould suggest that Catchfartism is the gateway drug to Brownnoseism, I suspect.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:03 PM (CDGwz)

428 'would', dammit.

The great thing about posting on a near-dormant thread is that very few people will witness your screw ups, screwups, screw-ups.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:05 PM (CDGwz)

429 How to open a new "BOOK" yeah sure.........
Posted by: saf
-----

You, like, left-click,right?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:07 PM (CDGwz)

430 Gee, it's really roomy in here. And, books.

Still work on 'The Making of the Atomic Bomb', Rhodes. It's a terrific book. One of the Sloan Technology Series.

Just the biographical sketches and anecdotes regarding the physicists involved makes it worth reading.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:11 PM (CDGwz)

431 The great thing about posting on a near-dormant thread is that very few people will witness your screw ups, screwups, screw-ups.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:05 PM (CDGwz)
---
But the ones who do witness your grammatical droppings are the type to point and laff.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 02:12 PM (kQs4Y)

432 431 The great thing about posting on a near-dormant thread is that very few people will witness your screw ups, screwups, screw-ups.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:05 PM (CDGwz)
---
But the ones who do witness your grammatical droppings are the type to point and laff.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 02:12 PM (kQs4Y)

Unlike every other thread, we all come back to check the books till its finally dead. So, sorry, we all see your eras.

Books want save you.

Posted by: weirdflunky at July 21, 2019 02:22 PM (cknjq)

433 I always review the book thread throughout the day

*points and laffs at errors*

Posted by: vmom check out this KU deal at July 21, 2019 02:24 PM (dm05u)

434 But the ones who do witness your grammatical droppings are the type to point and laff.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes
--------

*points at nic*

Besides, I consider my leavings as fertilizer, rather than droppings.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 21, 2019 02:26 PM (xSo9G)

435 Groin vault?

Think I shall surmount the apex to survey? Probably not prudent.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 02:27 PM (kbJA/)

436 There is moonbattery and then there is:
https://preview.tinyurl.com/y4pfakgv

I don't think this is satire, way too earnest and adept at spewing the Leftist word salad.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 02:31 PM (kbJA/)

437 I'm in that nether world of reading while cooking up a sauce and waiting for the food thread.

Hard to concentrate when there's 'maters and garlic wafting through the room.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 02:54 PM (kQs4Y)

438 I don't think this is satire, way too earnest and adept at spewing the Leftist word salad.
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 02:31 PM (kbJA/)
---
These people will be left behind while you and I find the good life in the off-world colonies.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 02:56 PM (kQs4Y)

439 These people will be left behind while you and I find the good life in the off-world colonies.

And they will wonder why the mutants are killing them.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 21, 2019 03:00 PM (kbJA/)

440 I'm just gonna throw in because apparently Eris and Puma are still playing.

So I've come up with a thing I call lazy caprese. Caprese is supposed to be a beautiful presentation of sliced tomato with sliced fresh mozzarella on top, some fresh basil, salt and pepper, and olive oil.

Well that's for company. Presentation is only important if there's someone to see it. I've taken to chopping up all the ingredients and stirring them together and eating them out of the grocery store tub.

It's still awesome.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 21, 2019 03:33 PM (fuK7c)

441 Bander, that sounds delicious! It's the flavors that are important, anyway.

I'm making Rigatoni al Segreto -- you'll have to visit the Food Thread to find the secret ingredient.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 03:59 PM (kQs4Y)

442 Book thread still open for business, just so you know.




(which actually makes me happy)

Posted by: OregonMuse. AoSHQ Thought Leader & Pants Monitor at July 21, 2019 04:51 PM (smcnr)

443 Online bookbuying gets a lot of grief, but when I was a kid, I remember trying desperately to find a copy of an obscure Jules Verne book ("Master of the World") in my small home town.

There was no bookstore. The drugstore had some paperbacks. The public library was small, and even the exchange didn't have this book. I spent many days working the problem, to no avail.

Today, I like my local independent bookstore, and browse there often. But like the major chains, the same "best sellers" or award winners are up front, and more obscure books are hard to find.

Online now, almost any book I can think of can be found. Amazon has a wide range, hard copy and digital. A battery of used book sites can often deliver something that's out of print, even at Amazon.

Compared to what it was like years ago, this doesn't suck.

Posted by: MW at July 21, 2019 04:52 PM (hNTtn)

444 As soon as I bought my own car, I spent hours every week at local used bookstores.
I don't have the time to do that anymore with all my kids (as much as they'd enjoy it because I've turned them into book lovers, too), but when I buy a dead tree book I get it from a used book store on Amazon, or from thriftbooks.
A smart used book store owner will sell online, too.

I *have* made an exception for those really nice editions that Barnes and Noble has been putting out, though. Like this...
https://youtu.be/heis0HFhqWM

Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at July 21, 2019 05:04 PM (adsVM)

445 Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at July 21, 2019 05:04 PM (adsVM)

What a beautiful edition!

I am very happy with the B&N leatherbound books, but this one is a step above.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 06:14 PM (kQs4Y)

446 Still waiting for a Frazetta bible.


Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at July 21, 2019 06:15 PM (kQs4Y)

447 At your local B&N they should have a table or two filled with various classics they've re-printed in gorgeous editions like that!

They're usually Buy One Get One Half Off. ($25 regular price)
There's a complete Sherlock Holmes, Shakespeare, Alice in Wonderland, Grimm's Fairy Tales, Arabian Nights, Dante's Divine Comedy (Wordsworth's translation), L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time trilogy, and lots more. The guy in that video reviews quite a few of them on his channel.
Most of them are gorgeously illustrated.

Posted by: Brunette the 'Ette at July 21, 2019 06:47 PM (adsVM)

448 Could there be book recommendations for family-friendly nooks? More especially books which eschew bad language and prurient subject mater?

Posted by: Natrium at July 21, 2019 07:07 PM (myE+A)

449 Natrium, I try to label "clean" books on my blog, if you want to see, you can use this link ( delete the space before search)

http://www.bookhorde.org/ search/label/clean

Posted by: Cher at July 21, 2019 07:50 PM (dm05u)

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