Various Opinions on the Syria Withdrawal

Sean Davis has a good thread arguing in favor of the withdrawal, and demanding that diehard interventionists begin actually defining their goals and the success states they seek.

If you are clamoring for a never-ending U.S. military presence in Syria and Afghanistan, the burden is on you to specifically define what military and political victory looks like in each country, when/how it will be achieved, and the costs in lives and dollars it will require.
The complete inability to define the specific goals and account for the resultant costs to attain them in Afghanistan has led to 17 years of war, tens of thousands of American lives lost or permanently scarred, and to what end? A down payment on another 17 years?
The failure of politicians to accept reality in Iraq didn’t just lead to thousands of American lives lost or permanently scarred, it created a far more volatile and dangerous region for us and our allies, and significantly damaged our security and standing globally.
Short-sighted intervention in Libya was similarly disastrous, leading to American deaths that never should have happened all because politicians apparently decided a vicious Islamic theocracy that loathed America was preferable to a brutal yet kept tyrant who feared it.
And then we get to the mess in Syria, the rise of ISIS, and the emergence of Iran—the largest state sponsor of terror on earth for close to five decades now—as the dominant political force in the Middle East, all made possible by U.S. intervention in Iraq 15 years ago.
One would think that kind of disastrous record, which has failed across the board to make America and its allies safer or the Middle East more stable, would lead to some soul-searching and humility from those who enabled it. Unfortunately, we’ve seen the exact opposite reaction.
Just as Marxists will tell you that their own failures are no such thing because true communism has never really been tried, so, too will the unyielding interventionists swear that Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria et. al. only went sideways because we didn’t intervene enough.

If you want the U.S. to invade Syria, depose Assad, take control of the country, and then fight Iran (and Hezbollah) and Russia in a proxy war there—and it’s been obvious for years that Iraq 2.0 in Syria is exactly what many seem to want for some insane reason—then make the case.

I wrote this piece over a year and a half ago imploring Syria interventionists to specifically define the terms of victory in Syria, account for the costs and risks, and provide a concrete timeline to achieve their stated goals. They won’t do it. https://t.co/YldNDBQwXj
— Sean Davis (@seanmdav) December 21, 2018

Erick Erickson, 7:16 pm last night: We need a military coup to destroy the constitutionally elected government

If we lived in a lesser country than our great nation, today is the day we really would be talking about a military coup. Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision.
— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) December 21, 2018

Erick Erickson, 8:24 pm last night: #MuhRussianBots are attacking me because I dared to tell the truth about the need for a coup to sweep away the democratically elected American government

My Twitter mentions suggest the internet troll farm in Moscow is going at full steam at 7:24am Moscow time right now.
— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) December 21, 2018

Erick Erickson, 11 am today: There won't be a coup but really there should be.

Bear in mind, this is the same guy who will fulminate against a wall as being unchristian and then propose, it its stead, a massive US operation to fund literal Pinochet-type murderous dictators along with helicopter rides to keep these filthy Latin types under control.

The New York Times has of course flip-flopped from objecting to American troops in Syria, and worrying they'd be there forever, to now attacking Trump for deciding to not keep them there forever:

New York Times, Dec. 20, 2018 vs. New York Times, Jan. 19, 2018 pic.twitter.com/uVOjMA60AD
— Joe Gabriel Simonson ☃️ (@SaysSimonson) December 21, 2018

~~Opportunistic coward and worm Max Boot flip-flopped from saying we didn't need troops in Syria to now saying we need troops in Syria so badly the world will catch fire if we withdraw them:~~ Correction! I am told the below tweet is a complete photoshop. RUSSIAN BOTS tricked me. But seriously, apologies; I should not have permitted myself to be fooled by this, nor passed on this forgery to you.

ask the neocons pushing for it pic.twitter.com/4AhBmAv4SO
— Nick P. Cook (@lordredrock) December 21, 2018

Correction, in case you missed it: The above "tweet" is a photoshop.

Proof of the left's vile political opportunism on matters of life and death is diehard pacifist/Communist apologist/anti-Iraq War agitator Noam Chomsky now declaring that US troops must remain in Syria to protect Kurdish forces.

I'm not saying that point of view is wrong, but I am saying it is preposterous for Noam Chomsky, millionaire socialist and bitter opponent of Bush's military actions and military actions in general, to suddenly be cheerleading for US troops occupying a precious Muslim land.

Posted by: Ace of Spades at 01:53 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 OK.

Posted by: Deep Moron at December 21, 2018 01:49 PM (DdzVz)

2 I'm in favor.

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:49 PM (BXMxN)

3 first?

Posted by: Dark Helmet at December 21, 2018 01:49 PM (Wy/9t)

4 I just don't get twitter's interface of patched together pictures. It looks broken.

Posted by: t-bird at December 21, 2018 01:50 PM (NAs56)

5 Look at Boot with his hat tipped at a jaunty angle.

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:50 PM (BXMxN)

6 Yeah, now for the content.

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 01:50 PM (Zz0t1)

7 Erick Erikson just wants Max Boot to pull out and cum on his tits.

Posted by: garrett at December 21, 2018 01:50 PM (hRVsV)

8
"Sorry I didn't get the dishes washed, dear. It was Russian bots."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 21, 2018 01:51 PM (LsBY9)

9 Jeff Flake Ariz.

Lindsey Graham S.C.

Mike Lee Utah

Mitch McConnell Ky.

Rand Paul Ky.

Posted by: Max BOOThole at December 21, 2018 01:51 PM (BqBId)

10 Simple. There is nothing in Syria that I am willing to give my life for. If I am not willing to give my life, I sure as hell can't expect someone else to give their life either.

Posted by: Anchovy at December 21, 2018 01:51 PM (B3kya)

11 The thing is,no matter what Trump does,he is wrong.
The NeverTrumpers

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:52 PM (BXMxN)

12 looking at the SideBar I always wondered are their Preppers in South Korea? I would assume their are, just never heard of any or is it an American thing.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 21, 2018 01:52 PM (X1Vqs)

13 I was for it before I was against it before I was for it again.

Posted by: rickl at December 21, 2018 01:52 PM (xjiRE)

14 sure, go ahead with the "military coup" . then watch as several units mutiny against a military run by Erickson clones with little support in the ranks.

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at December 21, 2018 01:52 PM (gKN/H)

15 Wonder how many enlisted soldiers EE knows?

Posted by: Deep Moron at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (DdzVz)

16 support the Kurds and move out.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (X1Vqs)

17 The cunt is back.

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (BXMxN)

18 Pro Tip : Jaunty Cap look is kinda Gay.

Posted by: garrett at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (hRVsV)

19 Love the Max Boot 180.
Says it all.

Say, is he still exiting the Republican party?

Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (W+vEI)

20 Bring the troops home. Enough already.

Posted by: sinalco at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (yODqO)

21 I was a hawk before the Iraq War. When I saw the huge (wasted) loss of American life there, I realized, it wasn't my son, my father, my brother making the sacrifice.

I just don't think the price is worth any end benefit.

Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (ozGXj)

22 The contrast really is hilarious and it really ought to be painful and humiliating but... since the debacle with the Iraq War vote (voted for it before I was against it) I've learned that no amount of completely reversing one's opinions ever really hurts the left.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (39g3+)

23 When I want to know the accurate details of world political and military issues, the FIRST name I turn to is Max Boot.

Posted by: Jeff Flake at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (UsCnO)

24 Meh. I supported and still support the decision to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. That said, Trump is President, and Congress long abdicated its responsibilities for oversight, so they have no one to blame but themselves for the fact that they're impotent now. As for Syria, pull out back to Iraq and focus on continued training and support to Iraqi forces.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (wCmLp)

25 10 Simple. There is nothing in Syria that I am willing to give my life for. If I am not willing to give my life, I sure as hell can't expect someone else to give their life either.
Posted by: Anchovy at December 21, 2018 01:51 PM (B3kya)

This. If I wouldn't risk my own life for it, I don't think I should ask it of our soldiers. Syria is a shithole, and their civil war is none of our business. The only legit reason we had for being there was crushing ISIS.

Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (J+mig)

26
Pro Tip : Jaunty Cap look is kinda Gay.
Posted by: garrett at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (hRVsV)

-----

jaunty angles reflect Gaydar better...

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (8XRCm)

27
Republicans Divided On Syria, But All Agree Trump Needs To Defer To His Generals

Posted by: Fake News Fake Outrage Headline Generator at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (wRr+g)

28 Trump just signed into law the First Step Act.

It will reduce mandatory minimum sentences for a number of drug-related crimes and allow judges to circumvent federal mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent offenders when they see fit.

Lol

Posted by: Fact checker at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (zII7w)

29 I was a hawk before the Iraq War. When I saw the huge (wasted) loss of American life there, I realized, it wasn't my son, my father, my brother making the sacrifice.

It was the right move, we just don't live in a time when Americans are willing to put up with the long term effort afterward. We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, and left.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (39g3+)

30 No great thinkers waste their time on Twitter.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (oVJmc)

31 If we won't protect the territorial integrity of the United States, what's the point of even having a military? Silicon Valley probably is working furiously to devise robots so we can dispense with all those filthy troops, anyhow.

Erickson is a straight up nutter. This is not a new development.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (iw59Q)

32 looking at the SideBar I always wondered are their Preppers in South Korea? I would assume their are, just never heard of any or is it an American thing.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 21, 2018 01:52 PM (X1Vqs)

I know there are quite a few in S. America - Brazil, Argentina, etc.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (JPLeU)

33 I saw elsewhere that there was some doubt about that second Max Boot headline actually existing.

I know Ace is a stickler for avoiding fake news; does anyone know of a link to the actual column?

Posted by: Gentlemen, This is democracy manifest at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (LWu6U)

34 The only proper metric is:

1) Is Orange Man Bad for it?
2) Then I'm against it!

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Need Gifts? Bluebell's Shiving for Dummies Available at The Outrage Outlet! at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (hLRSq)

35 As a one tour enlisted puke (decades ago) I can tell with certainty that nothing means more to the junior enlisted than deploying to some shitehole with no obvious direct benefit to US security.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (1g7ch)

36 No great thinkers waste their time on Twitter.

Its like this maxim: people who accomplish great things do not post motivational images on social media.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (39g3+)

37 Ah yes, because the debate was about never ending war, as opposed to making a half-assed decision over twitter without consulting any allies, field commanders, or military advisors. Great smart points!
Posted by: Bone Spurs

____________

So we're now back to talking about Twitter and decorum, not about the actual policy.

Last I checked, President was the military commander and he campaigned (and won) on getting the US out of nonsense like this that didn't serve US interests but the "global order".

Posted by: Blago at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (UfkIY)

38
Erikson wants Operation Valkyrie but not the shootings in the Bendlerblock.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (LsBY9)

39 >>We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, and left.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (39g3+)

Edited to read: We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, bombed Mosul until it was a smoking hole in the ground, filled that hole with napalm and lit it, and left.

Posted by: Zod at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (Bdeb0)

40 As for Erickson, removing 2000 troops from a country in which Congress has not declared war is grounds for. . . a military coup?!

Seriously.

Was there a time when Erickson thought rationally, or has he always been like this?

Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (W+vEI)

41 20
Correct answer is Trump finds a way to fuck up evrything he does. See
why he can't even do a victory lap on criminal reform bill because he
shit the bed with Mattis, shutdown, and stock market. Nice going, champ!

Posted by: Bone Spurs at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (dmGmu)

Nice troll, here is a cookie.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (UsCnO)

42 With the exception of the innocent bystanders, there are no good guys in Syria. There's no point in being there. I can be persuaded about the need for intervention in important cases but Syria isn't that. It was a mistake and we should withdraw.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (RD7QR)

43 Conservatives in fedoras... dear G-d.

Fedoras... Not Even Once.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (AzW6q)

44 They don't give a fuck about Syria.

They hate Trump and reflexively oppose whatever he wants.

As better, wiser, hairier morons here have said: Trump could single-handedly cure cancer and the Never Trumpers and Democrats would bemoan the loss of jobs in the medical field.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (bcbK8)

45 We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, and left.

-----

This.

Hang a sign on the door of the governing body that says:

"Dear Whoever Comes Next: DONT make us come back here again.

Regards
Uncle Sam"

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (8XRCm)

46 The place is overrun with trolls,I am leaving and calling in air strikes and arty on my own position...

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (BXMxN)

47 "27 10 Simple. There is nothing in Syria that I am willing to give my life for. If I am not willing to give my life, I sure as hell can't expect someone else to give their life either.
Posted by: Anchovy at December 21, 2018 01:51 PM (B3kya)

This. If I wouldn't risk my own life for it, I don't think I should ask it of our soldiers. Syria is a shithole, and their civil war is none of our business. The only legit reason we had for being there was crushing ISIS."

Ditto. Erickson's fat faggot ass can wobble over to the recruitment center if he's so concerned.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (iw59Q)

48 43
Noted anti-Trumpers Jack Kramer and Allan West don't seem to be sooper
enthusiastic about this move either, although West is very careful bc he
knows where his bread is buttered.

Posted by: Bone Spurs at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (dmGmu)

Don't deposit that Soros check, go down to the bank and cash it.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (UsCnO)

49 Erickson and Boot. The new Kristol/Hayes.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (nAeGR)

50 Yes, Christopher Taylor -- it seemed like the Iraq War was poorly managed. Probably not enough troops to start with, and no real plan of how to deal with the consequences of building a new regime.

Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (ozGXj)

51 As a military officer I am happy we are leaving Syria. We should have been out of Afghanistan 10 years ago, and we need to withdraw from Africa, too.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (dNzKv)

52 46 Conservatives in fedoras... dear G-d.

Fedoras... Not Even Once.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (AzW6q)

*hides hat collection*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (bcbK8)

53 Iraq was a senseless mistake altogether. Even if we'd just smashed the regime and left it would have been a mistake. And whatever we do in Syria will be just as useless.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (ppBhU)

54 I saw elsewhere that there was some doubt about that second Max Boot headline actually existing.

Its real. And that kind of blatant, total 180 reversal is all over the place. Same deal as with the Iraq vote, and for the same reasons. Sacred honor wait, no integrity... no it was something... oh yes, blatant partisan hatred compels them to oppose everything Trump does, even if its what they supported just moments ago. See: firing Comey, et al.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (39g3+)

55 21 Love the Max Boot 180.
Says it all.

Say, is he still exiting the Republican party?
Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (W+vEI)

If the GOPe goes along with the Dems and impeaches Trump, he'll join it again.

Posted by: rickl at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (xjiRE)

56 48
We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, and left.

-----

This.

Hang a sign on the door of the governing body that says:

"Dear Whoever Comes Next: DONT make us come back here again.

Regards

Uncle Sam"

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (8XRCm)

Should have done that in Europe at the end of WWII

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (jxbfJ)

57 Max looks like Avenatti's older retarded brother.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (nAeGR)

58 Nice going, champ!
Posted by: Bone Spurs at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (dmGmu)

I fully respect your right to say dumbass shit on the internet.

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (Zz0t1)

59 When we send the military to fight, their mandate should be: Destroy everything and then make the rubble bounce.

Rinse repeat until would-be antagonist no longer exists or decides messing with the US isn't a good idea.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (qC1Sy)

60 US out of Syria
US out of AF/Pak
US out of Europe

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (bcbK8)

61 Imagine the media reaction if anybody called for a military coup when Obama pulled the troops out of Iraq.

Posted by: steevy at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (BXMxN)

62 23 I was a hawk before the Iraq War. When I saw the huge (wasted) loss of American life there, I realized, it wasn't my son, my father, my brother making the sacrifice.

I just don't think the price is worth any end benefit.
Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (ozGXj)

...

As was I.

I still maintain the black-hearted opinion that the real issue is not prosecuting the war fully, to actually kill people and break things until there is an unconditional surrender and that nation knows in its core that it has been defeated, and everyone else within ballistic missile range agrees.

But if we are not going to prosecute war as such but keep to this idea of kinetic intervention or whatever we're calling it now--totally not worth the cost.

Posted by: TexasDan at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (yL25O)

63
2008: Bush/Cheny is war criminal.

2018: Trump is a poopy head.

Make up your fucking minds assholes.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (8XRCm)

64 I think this is a play by Trump. Trump brings things up in the concrete. He wants to remind people that he still wants--at some point--to withdraw troops. And it also prompts the military to begin thinking about that.

But the thing it really starts is the conversation.

I'm still calling this a head-fake.... but with the reminder that it is his goal to not extend our stay and jeopardy over long.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (YOhRS)

65 I think Turtle voted against it so he could bring it back up

Posted by: Max BOOThole at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (BqBId)

66 Does anyone else smell bananas?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Need Gifts? Bluebell's Shiving for Dummies Available at The Outrage Outlet! at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (hLRSq)

67 Didn't these same assholes just finish going to bat for the iranian Proxies fighting in Yemen?

Like 2-3 weeks back. They were all about us pulling funds/support from Saudi Arabia in THAT conflict, because KASHOGGI!

Posted by: garrett at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (hRVsV)

68 Max "takes it in the" Boot has spoken.

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (Zz0t1)

69 Our reason to be in Af/Pak died when Bin Laden did.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (bcbK8)

70 It would be a VERY easy thing to get Assad and Putin to agree to PROTECT THE KURDS from the Turks, for us pulling out.

IF the Kurds agreed to stop rebelling against Syria.

In fact, Russia has been trying to broker this deal for a couple of years.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (NgKpN)

71 Hang a sign on the door of the governing body that says:

"Dear Whoever Comes Next: DONT make us come back here again.

Regards

Uncle Sam"

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (8XRCm)

Cute. Also fucking useless. They wouldn't care. Actually, they'd probably just wave it around as proof that they'd won, because as long as they can get back up afterwards then they've defied the Great Satan and lived.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (wCmLp)

72 Yes, Christopher Taylor -- it seemed like the Iraq War was poorly managed. Probably not enough troops to start with

The actual war part was fine, we clearly had enough troops for that (crushing their entire army in days) and it was a historically awesome result. Even the French didn't capitulate that fast against the Nazis.

But the buildup took way too damned long, we let Saddam ship out all his goodies and hide stuff with a huge warning period, and then stuck around wasting time, lives, and energy after the battle.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (39g3+)

73 The people blathing on about how leaving will create ISIS 2.0, lets review what actually created ISIS: Obama's attempt to overthrow the Syria goverment, first by a State Departmented funded Color Revelution and second by funding Islamic rebel groups trying to overthrow the goverment. It was Obama's attack on the Syria goverment that allowed ISIS to form as the state was too weak to fight back. The best way to prevent another ISIS is get out of Syria and let the Syrian goverment and their allies deal with ISIS types and then not try to overthow such goverments.

Posted by: BC at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (5T/WH)

74 Eric Ericson is right, we do need a violent coup, to kill people like Eric Ericson.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (50gG9)

75 I get it. I totally get it. It's always WWII, it's always Hitler, it's always Munich. If only we had [done something then]!!!

But dang, we're all wore out fellas.

Posted by: Tu abuela tambien at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (efMXe)

76 Love the Max Boot 180.
---
Thank you.

Posted by: Max Bootlicker at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM (YOhRS)

77
I know there are quite a few in S. America - Brazil, Argentina, etc.
Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (JPLeU)

I read the one guys book on Prep that lived thru the Argentina Crisis gave some good tips and real world advice.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (X1Vqs)

78 I was a hawk before the Iraq War. When I saw the huge (wasted) loss of American life there, I realized, it wasn't my son, my father, my brother making the sacrifice.

_____________

To me, it wasn't the "who" was being sacrificed it was the "what for"

I also supported the Iraq War, mainly because the opposition was almost exclusively "Bush is doing this for the oil!!!" but in hindsight, it was a stupid, expensive, and pointless war that probably made things worse over there.

And it was done over 9/11 when Iraq had about as much to do with it as North Korea.

If there's a pendulum, I'm definitely to the side of isolationism. We really don't have the budget anymore for trillion dollar wars. We lost the gold standard over the Vietnam War. This does take a toll on a nation, to say nothing of the real human lives lost.

Posted by: Blago at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (UfkIY)

79 Has Max Boot overcome Jen Rubin's lead for the Pirhouetting Pussy title?

Argr. The both of them.

Posted by: Eeyore, fomerly George LeS at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (VaN/j)

80 Trump wanted to withdraw from Syria seven months ago.

He got pushback, and gave the Pentagon six months to complete its mission in Syria.

This is hardly a surprise, except for the Washington establishment, for whom lying is a way of life.

Posted by: The ARC of History at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (I2/tG)

81 How about a new law: anyone who supports foreign intervention or a new welfare program should partially fund it. I'm sure that Americans would have kicked in huge portions of their own money for WW2. Not too many would throw their own money at Syria or Obama phones, etc.

Posted by: Kate Winslet's boobs at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (JPLeU)

82 Trump: Up.

MaxineBoot: Down!

Trump: Left.

MaxineBoot: Right!!

Trump: Black.

MaxineBoot: White!!!!!

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (XROPS)

83 When leftists scream about criminal justice being a minor issue, and demanding Trump stay in Syria despite obviously having even more downside than Iraq, you know the ideology has absolutely no root besides will to power.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (yBq7A)

84 whats with the weird comment errors today?

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:01 PM (eAshZ)

85 How many of these war-loving neo cons have children serving? How many of them have had children come home in boxes?

I've had enough of them all.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (ptqGC)

86 Halp me understand something, morons.

We have the best military in the world, apart from Israel.

Our annual military budget (~700B$) is over 30x the entire GDP of Afghanistan (~$20B) and 12x that of Syria (~$60B).

Given the size and strength of our military, how is it we get tied down for decades in underdeveloped shitholes, spending billions of dollars fighting goatherds? Our military should be able to mop the floor with them in about a week.

The only thing I can figure is that the political elite *want* our military tied down for decades and spending billions in third world shitholes.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (O7MnT)

87 If Boot(licker) is against it; then, I'm for it.

Posted by: jhstuart at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (79gcP)

88 US out of Syria
US out of AF/Pak
US out of Europe
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (bcbK

---
US out of Mexico.

Posted by: La Raza at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (YOhRS)

89 For me it's easy.

If National Review and Weekly Standard want us in Syria, I want us out of Syria.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (2pQHc)

90 Wonder how many enlisted soldiers EE knows?
Posted by: Deep Moron at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM

That's easily calculated:

#ES(EE_knows) = #PTD(EE_knows) - (#PTD(EE_knows) - 1) - (1024/1024)

where PTD = Pickup Truck Drivers

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (ctuyM)

91 The
middle east wasn't a disaster by accident. That was a key,
deliberate ingredient to the outcome of the 2006 election and a goal in
and of itself for the prior POS-in-chief.
At one point in Iraq we had more fatalities from rollovers
caused by half-baked humveee armoring (which was in turn from Dem
grandstanding) than we did from actual combat.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (eAshZ)

92 4000 boots is not enough to do anything in less than a semi-stable situation, it's a fantasy to think that a hot war would not have to multiply that 10x in a week or two. We are where we are because no one wants to escalate TOO much. I understand support for the Kurds, but people are talking about establishing a stable administration?

Have these people learned NOTHING in the past two decades? We have neocons crawling out from under rocks, and Democrats cheering "You go, girl!"

Posted by: JEM at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (8erNz)

93 There's nothing wrong with the USA acting with military power in other nations, but it has to be a direct, specific, and tangible threat to the USA, not some "economically in the long run this will create an atmosphere in which the penumbras will reflect positively on our ability to project power globally" nonsense.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (39g3+)

94 Sean Davis is fine on domestic matters, but approaches silly on things like this.

Note his Carnegie Endowment lunch seminar-worthy matrix for "interventions" includes *TIMELINES* for all your narrowly specified, engineering-spec-like goals to be met. He should see Trump's wise (if obvious) comments on things like timelines in situations where one is literally fighting an enemy in the field.

And his references to Iraq are just standard issue delusion - but shared by many here, so don't want to ruffle feathers, and bore everyone, going into that.

None of which affects the substance of the Syria question.

And - in most cases - laying out objectives and building public support for foreign activities is of course sound (covert operations obviously are different).

Posted by: rhomboid at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (QDnY+)

95 The interesting thing is that Trump is also pulling our diplomats out of Syria - sounds as if he is clearing the decks for something.

Posted by: The ARC of History at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (I2/tG)

96 38
Erikson wants Operation Valkyrie but not the shootings in the Bendlerblock.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 21, 2018 01:56 PM (LsBY9)

How about the piano wire hangings in the abattoir?

Posted by: Fox2! at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (MwFQu)

97 Posted by: TexasDan at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (yL25O)

The real issue is we were not willing to break the Philosophy that drove all of this, like we did in Germany (Fascism) and Japan (Shinto).

We needed to FORCE Afghanistan and Iraq to have a Religion free Constitution, with a US Bill of Rights.

We didn't do that. Both countries have Sharia Law enshrined in their Constitutions.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (NgKpN)

98 As for Erickson, removing 2000 troops from a country in which Congress has not declared war is grounds for. . . a military coup?!

Seriously.

Was there a time when Erickson thought rationally, or has he always been like this?
Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (W+vEI)

This is an excellent point.

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (XROPS)

99 36 The only proper metric is:

1) Is Orange Man Bad for it?
2) Then I'm against it!
________________

There's a cartoon on FB where a lefty guy is sweating and anxious, because he has to choose between two buttons:

--Orange Man Bad

or

--Ending War Good

and can't decide which one to push.

They should put Max Boot's face on the guy. Or maybe give the guy a third choice:

--Ending War Good, Unless Orange Man Bad Does It, then Ending War Very, Very Bad!

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (fqUgw)

100 We have the best military in the world, apart from Israel.

Our annual military budget (~700B$) is over 30x the entire GDP of Afghanistan (~$20B) and 12x that of Syria (~$60B).

Given the size and strength of our military, how is it we get tied down for decades in underdeveloped shitholes, spending billions of dollars fighting goatherds? Our military should be able to mop the floor with them in about a week.

The only thing I can figure is that the political elite *want* our
military tied down for decades and spending billions in third world
shitholes.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (O7MnT)

How about the fact the ROE are insane? Don't fire on the Taliban until they shoot first? This actually happened to our son.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (ptqGC)

101 Our reason to be in Af/Pak died when Bin Laden did.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM

You're Welcome!!!!!

Bin Laden = Dead
GM = ALIVE!!!!

Posted by: Baroqe Owebama at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (Zz0t1)

102 Good lort. Y'all went 100 deep in 10 minutes???

Merry almost Christmas Horde!

So I'm stuck here at work, alone. We haven't had a work related phone call in over 4 hours.

I'm. Bored.

What's happening?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (9CkBG)

103 29 I was a hawk before the Iraq War. When I saw the huge (wasted) loss of American life there, I realized, it wasn't my son, my father, my brother making the sacrifice.

It was the right move, we just don't live in a time when Americans are willing to put up with the long term effort afterward. We should have gone in, hammered the bad guys, cleaned house, and left.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 01:55 PM (39g3+)

There's a great line in Michael Bay's (yes seriously) 13 Hours where one warrior says to another: 'When I was young, I was giving myself to something bigger. Jack, that something bigger's gone now.'

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (bcbK8)

104
Of all those keyboard warriors advocating a continued presence for US forces in Syria, Afghanistan and any other Middle Eastern Bumfuckistan, how many served in our armed forces themselves?

Or were they all war gamer types who got together on Saturdays at college to play strategy board games?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (pNxlR)

105 ....And I said it from the time I first commenced it--

--I'm against it!

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (oVJmc)

106
Apparently the one success we've achieved in Afghanistan is increasing the yields of poppy growers. Who will venture once again up and across the border with Russia, start plying their wares to their citizens, and Russian can take over from us on downs.

History is a recursive algorithm.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (jYje5)

107 88 US out of Syria
US out of AF/Pak
US out of Europe
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 01:59 PM (bcbK
---
US out of Mexico.
Posted by: La Raza at December 21, 2018 02:02 PM (YOhRS)

Mexico out of the US.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (NgKpN)

108 Hang a sign on the door of the governing body that says:

"Dear Whoever Comes Next: DONT make us come back here again.

Regards

Uncle Sam"

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 01:57 PM (8XRCm)

Cute. Also fucking useless. They wouldn't care. Actually, they'd probably just wave it around as proof that they'd won, because as long as they can get back up afterwards then they've defied the Great Satan and lived.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM

That's why if you did it you'd need to make sure the place was utterly devastated and I mean completely. No infastructure, no nothing. Salt the earth and GTFO. Have fun celebrating the big win with no food or water.

Posted by: Minnfidel at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (nAeGR)

109 There are no good guys in Syria to pull for, so the answer is simply let Russia be Russia with the caveat to them that we have given Israel the green light to kick ass there whenever they feel the need to . That Mattis was a supporter of war without end amen is no surprise - he made a career of it.

Posted by: rammajamma at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (mJmCN)

110 Saddam was a sponsor of terror and getting more radical over time(remnant forces of his formed a lot of ISIS including their leadership). Additionally, the invasion spurred Gadhafi to reveal and end his nuclear weapons program. Plenty of mishandling in Iraq sure, but I'm not going to pretend it was something that didn't have its positive impacts. Afghanistan on the other hand has made no progress and accomplished little.

Posted by: Someguy at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (h5Df3)

111 Given the size and strength of our military, how is it we get tied down for decades in underdeveloped shitholes, spending billions of dollars fighting goatherds? Our military should be able to mop the floor with them in about a week.

The only thing I can figure is that the political elite *want* our military tied down for decades and spending billions in third world shitholes.

Because they hide in the population and run back across the border to Pakistan. We're not fighting a standing Army with troop formations we can shell and command and control nodes that we can easily bomb. Their CnC is a couple of guys in a hut somewhere, with maybe a few cell phones.

We could end the war in a few weeks, if we were willing to exterminate every man, woman, and child in Afghanistan.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (wCmLp)

112 We have neocons crawling out from under rocks, and Democrats cheering "You go, girl!"

-----

Cant wait to read what the Weekly Standard has to say.

*blink*

Oh.

Wait.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (8XRCm)

113 So, if the dems are all in a tizzy over this, they should just declare war in Syria, which would require the troops to be there, right?

I would dare them to try that!

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (XROPS)

114 101 Our reason to be in Af/Pak died when Bin Laden did.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:00 PM

You're Welcome!!!!!

Bin Laden = Dead
GM = ALIVE!!!!
Posted by: Baroqe Owebama at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (Zz0t1)

How's the weather and ladyboys in Fiji?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (bcbK8)

115 If we're going to be the boots on the ground, cash from the coffers driver of international globalist nation building then I say we do it the Roman way. Or colonial British way. Or the old fashioned German/Russian/Japanese mid 20th century way.

We go in hard, pacify the population though any means useful. Establish them as US territories, vassal states, whatever their degree of cooperation warrants. Strip their resources as we need. Maybe cut a deal with the Chinese and Russians (pretty weak but that nuclear arsenal still has some throweight) to divide up the whole pie.

Not sure the Davos set would be all cool with that, as they would definitely not be in charge of New World Order 2.0. But then the gladiator spectacles pitting former EU heads of state and bureaucrats and everyone who has ever been invited to a Bilderberg meeting against each other with the occasional pack of vicious carnivores thrown in would be a nice replacement for the pussy NFL.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (jdGlx)

116 Of all those keyboard warriors advocating a continued presence for US forces in Syria, Afghanistan and any other Middle Eastern Bumfuckistan, how many served in our armed forces themselves?

Or were they all war gamer types who got together on Saturdays at college to play strategy board games?

A lot of them worked at a conservative magazine/cruise brochure.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (O7MnT)

117 Pretty much more proof that the "experts" really just decide their conclusion and then work backwards from there to justify it when it comes to foreign policy.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (KUaJL)

118 Erik Erickson looks like a veteran of the Great Donut Wars.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (ptqGC)

119 I'M AGAINST IT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjiTzVyXRFE

Posted by: RAMONES at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (hRVsV)

120 The interesting thing is that Trump is also pulling our diplomats out of Syria - sounds as if he is clearing the decks for something.

Posted by: The ARC of History at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (I2/tG)
---
Nuking from orbit?

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (YOhRS)

121 "I'm. Bored.

What's happening?"

Well.....

Earlier, we were talking about 'Lefty' and 'Scamp'.

Other than that?
Not much.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (cqNba)

122 The middle east wasn't a disaster by accident. That was a key, deliberate ingredient to the outcome of the 2006 election and a goal in and of itself for the prior POS-in-chief.

This is what makes me so frustrated. IT WAS WORKING, but then the left, furious at their loss of power and seeing a Republican succeed, became treasonous to a point which would have, in past times, resulted in nooses like streamers in a NYC parade.

The failure, the disaster was engineered by people whose sole purpose was to regain power at all costs and who despise the military. And they succeeded so well that NOW EVEN PEOPLE WHO DAMNED WELL OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER ARE REPEATING THEIR HATEFUL TALKING POINTS

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)

123 One thing that should be obvious, though, and I don't think it's been widely reported, is that our military is close to being worn out.

Too many deployments to much equipment not properly maintained, etc.

The endless war starting under GW has taken a serious toll on both personnel and hardware, from what I can tell.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (qC1Sy)

124 102 Good lort. Y'all went 100 deep in 10 minutes???

Merry almost Christmas Horde!

So I'm stuck here at work, alone. We haven't had a work related phone call in over 4 hours.

I'm. Bored.

What's happening?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (9CkBG)

Trolls. Trolls in the dark.

How are you, man?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (bcbK8)

125 I really do not know the correct answer. All I know is that when this was announced I felt deep relief that our soldiers would be home again and far away from that hellhole.

Posted by: Hillsbury at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (Kcf2u)

126
Trump dumped Mattis -- Good

Trump wins showdown on fake shutdown -- Good

Posted by: Fake News Fake Outrage Headline Generator at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (PN9kz)

127 Earlier, we were talking about 'Lefty' and 'Scamp'.

Other than that?
Not much.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (cqNba)

*sigh*

I'm going to break the first rule of the HQ. What is Lefty and Scamp?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (9CkBG)

128 Someone want to grab a hammer for Gqd2M?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (bcbK8)

129 The interesting thing is that Trump is also pulling our diplomats out of Syria - sounds as if he is clearing the decks for something.

Yeah he's clearing the decks for a Christmas with one fewer war and a new year with troops coming home to their families.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (39g3+)

130 "Dear Whoever Comes Next: DONT make us come back here again.

Apparently 17 years of them explaining they don't care about that wont persuade some people any more than the 1st 700 years did.

Meanwhile ISIS is smashed and who knows what's next?

Posted by: DaveA at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (FhXTo)

131 95 The interesting thing is that Trump is also pulling our diplomats out of Syria - sounds as if he is clearing the decks for something.
Posted by: The ARC of History at December 21, 2018 02:03 PM (I2/tG)

Trump made this decision right after a phone call from Edrogan.

Edrogan has threatened for months to cross the border into Syria, to take out the Kurds.

We don't have enough forces there to actually stop that, and in fact, would get caught between the Turks, and the Russia / Syria forces which WILL respond to that invasion.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (NgKpN)

132 129 Earlier, we were talking about 'Lefty' and 'Scamp'.

Other than that?
Not much.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (cqNba)

*sigh*

I'm going to break the first rule of the HQ. What is Lefty and Scamp?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (9CkBG)

Isn't that what Alex named 'the girls'?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (bcbK8)

133 Good lort. Y'all went 100 deep in 10 minutes???

Your mom calls that "Thursday".

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (wCmLp)

134 The commies have come home to roost.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (vtcmf)

135 we'd do better to go to war with the drug cartels to our south ... and if some of them happen to be (murderous) mayors, then oh well, maybe their valedictorians will then feel safe and not all come to America.

The Sandinistas also had the Russkies backing them ... and even now jihad in Central/South America is an actual threat .. to them but then to US. And Venezuela is a real humanitarian crisis.

Hillary had dreams of an open border hemisphere ... well, no to that, but the invasion from our south could use our intervention more than the Middle East. (and China is infiltrating there as well). Certainly as our nation and military have become more "Hispanic", we have more reason to defend liberty in our hemisphere.

We can't completely stand down from world leadership, but we can be more choosy about our own interests, starting with our Southern border.

Posted by: illiniwek at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (Cus5s)

136 I'm. Bored.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (9CkBG)

------

Try zucchini instead of carrots in your chili....

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (8XRCm)

137 102
Good lort. Y'all went 100 deep in 10 minutes???

Merry almost Christmas Horde!

So I'm stuck here at work, alone. We haven't had a work related phone call in over 4 hours.

I'm. Bored.

What's happening?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:04 PM (9CkBG)

Some guy with orange hair decided to ruin the Christmas holiday for the DC elite and their staffs.

For no reason.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (UsCnO)

138 I'm old enough to remember when occupying muslim countries was racist and imperialistic and shit

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (2pQHc)

139 I originally supported the Iraq War also. I actually believed we could end Saddam and install a functioning democracy.

Experience has shown me otherwise.

Libya also imploded with Qadhafi gone.

I see no reason ending Assad would turn out better. Given the choices presented, leaving him in place is the least worst option.

Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (J+mig)

140 " What is Lefty and Scamp?"

Ask the shorter half our your podcast duet, next time you talk to her.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (cqNba)

141 [How about the fact the ROE are insane? Don't fire on the Taliban until they shoot first? This actually happened to our son.]

Exactly. How can our military win a war if the first rule of combat is "Don't kill the enemy unless you really, really have to."

It's part of the puzzle that makes me think our military adventures in the Middle East are not serious, at least not to the political architects of them.

What I'm puzzling over is what the point is if we don't intend to win? Is someone making money of it? Is it because some nebulous thing like "national prestige" is at stake unless we let goatherds blow up our best young men for a generation or two?

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (O7MnT)

142 I'm going to break the first rule of the HQ. What is Lefty and Scamp?
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:07 PM (9CkBG)

That's really a discussion topic for the Angry Ginger Power Hour.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (wCmLp)

143 I'm going to break the first rule of the HQ. What is Lefty and Scamp?
Posted by: BCochran1981

The name of AtC's "assets".

Posted by: rickb223 at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (xzezz)

144 Trolls. Trolls in the dark.

How are you, man?
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (bcbK

Are the trolls at least entertaining?

Things are about to get nuts. Family Christmas party tonight at my parents. Tomorrow? Well tomorrow evening the madness begins. My inlaws will be arriving from NC and my BiL and his wife and their four kids will be arriving from Texas. Day after Christmas my wife's aunt arrives.

But for the first time in a decade, I won't be traveling at Christmas.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (9CkBG)

145 Mattis had a choice: obey and support his commanding officer, or pitch a fit because he wants to have troops everywhere around the world. He chose poorly. As much as we have to admire the guy, he's still not perfect.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (39g3+)

146 Unknown unknowns of concern (to most on the outside) here are what Turkey has to do with any of this, either deals, or threats (both have been alleged to be involved), and of course effect on the Iran strategy.

The US is not paying any sort of heavy price, there have been no battlefield setbacks, our adversaries of various kinds are quite rational and recognize this is a purely optional move/change by the US. Not being forced into it. So concern about perceptions of loss-of-will is minimal. Or should be.

How important was/is the "land bridge" from Iran to Syria, and how does this affect that? Among the tiny few serious observers I've read, that is one concern.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (QDnY+)

147 I'm not saying that point of view is wrong, but I am saying it is preposterous
for Noam Chomsky, millionaire socialist and bitter opponent of Bush's
military actions and military actions in general, to suddenly be
cheerleading for US troops occupying a precious Muslim land.

Why, it's almost if Chomsky, Boot, and others of that ilk make their living by simply being contrarians, rather than by advocating positions in which they actually believe.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (tOP4K)

148 Pelosi haz the sadz Mad Dog is leaving, so it must be for the better.

Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (/rm4P)

149 The Kindle version of The Chili Cookbook: A History of the One-Pot Classic, with Cook-off Worthy Recipes from Three-Bean to Four-Alarm and Con Carne to Vegetarian by Robb Walsh is available on Amazon today for a $1.99.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (ctuyM)

150 NOW EVEN PEOPLE WHO DAMNED WELL OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER ARE REPEATING THEIR HATEFUL TALKING POINTS

Or maybe we just disagree with you. But the ALLCAPS is super-persuasive.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (ppBhU)

151 The failure, the disaster was engineered by people whose sole purpose was to regain power at all costs and who despise the military. And they succeeded so well that NOW EVEN PEOPLE WHO DAMNED WELL OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER ARE REPEATING THEIR HATEFUL TALKING POINTS
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)

---------------

The fecklessness of Democrats when it comes to war should have been a lesson learned when Vietnam was hung out to dry.

GW should have turned Iraq into rubble to show the rest of the ME that messing with the US was a bad idea.

Instead, he went with nation building and then expected Democrats to follow through on what he set up.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (qC1Sy)

152 This is what makes me so frustrated. IT WAS WORKING, but then the left, furious at their loss of power and seeing a Republican succeed, became treasonous to a point which would have, in past times, resulted in nooses like streamers in a NYC parade.

The failure, the disaster was engineered by people whose sole purpose was to regain power at all costs

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:06 PM (39g3+)

The Bushes and neocons not only permitted the treason, but are actively joining with the left to sabotage a much better President. At what point do people admit that the Obama treason is just fine with the Washington crowd in a way that Orangeman isn't?

You don't have to defend shitheads who want you dead.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (yBq7A)

153 I'M AGAINST IT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjiTzVyXRFE
Posted by: RAMONES at December 21, 2018 02:05 PM (hRVsV)
---
Me too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZz4C76hX2c

Posted by: Groucho at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (YOhRS)

154
For ten years #FakeNews has ignored Iraq,Afghanistan and Syria and failed to keep the public informed about what is going on there and the military brass was okay with it because it meant they could get their funding without having to answer questions and justify it. But now all of a sudden the media thinks pulling troops out is a great threat to our national security.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (TAmPV)

155 >>The interesting thing is that Trump is also pulling our diplomats out of Syria - sounds as if he is clearing the decks for something.

Yes, that is the most interesting pat of this, and yet all the MSM and DC hyperventilating seems to avoid that. Weird.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (W+vEI)

156 We just need to hand the Kurds some modern weaponry and then declare the area a no fly zone with a couple of Carrier groups off the coast and bomb the ever loving shit out of anything that we want to. Do it openly and with overwhelming force so that the rubble bounces.
Then just dare anyone to do anything about it.
The Kurds are worth while allies in a rather shitty region.

Posted by: southdakota conservative at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (wg50I)

157 But for the first time in a decade, I won't be traveling at Christmas.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (9CkBG)

I envy you so much for that I could cry. Seriously.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (ptqGC)

158 50 Yes, Christopher Taylor -- it seemed like the Iraq War was poorly managed. Probably not enough troops to start with, and no real plan of how to deal with the consequences of building a new regime.
Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 01:58 PM (ozGXj)

Why did Japan and Germany work, but our adventures in democracy fail in the Middle East? In Japan and Germany we physically defeated the underlying ideologies. We proved the Emperor of Japan was a man not a man/god. We proved the third Reich was not superior.

We won't even criticize Islam, hell our leaders praise it. Under those conditions we can never successfully force convert the ME and let's not kid ourselves that is exactly what we tried to do. We wanted to sell them on our secular religion of liberal democracy.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (50gG9)

159 Alright. Alright. Texting the Empress now.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (9CkBG)

160 Erickson... wow. Someone got himself a Lib Billionaire Christmas bonus this year...

Posted by: Inogame at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (ySZHT)

161 The biggest flaw with the Iraq war was the treasonous actions of the democrats in fighting against it after they voted for it.

Things would have been very different if they had not tried so hard to turn it into a republican vietnam.

Posted by: Gentlemen, This is democracy manifest at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (LWu6U)

162 Correct answer is Trump finds a way to fuck up evrything he does. See
why he can't even do a victory lap on criminal reform bill because he
shit the bed with Mattis, shutdown, and stock market. Nice going, champ!

Posted by: Bone Spurs at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (dmGmu)

This is true
Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (Gqd2M)

Hmm. So he should have caved on funding the wall or kept our soldiers in Syria for another year so he could take a victory lap on criminal justice reform? Interesting viewpoint.

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (XROPS)

163 Funny, I do not recall that anyone cared about what the "enlisted personnel" thought of the CinC's decisions were when Jug Ears was POTUS. Is this a new thing?

Posted by: Old Dude at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (LGXGf)

164 I think about the soldiers serving harms way this holiday season. I think about their loved ones here at home missing them, worrying about them. Then imagine the pain so many feel experiencing their first Christmas without their soldier - aka, father, brother, husband.
Nope - staying in those shitholes, without any clear objective ain't worth it.

Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (ozGXj)

165 162 Alright. Alright. Texting the Empress now.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (9CkBG)

Oh God.

*Grabs asbestos pants and boots*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (bcbK8)

166 "Alright. Alright. Texting the Empress now."

Tell her that we said 'Hi'.

Posted by: The hand sized spiders at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (cqNba)

167 67
Didn't these same assholes just finish going to bat for the iranian Proxies fighting in Yemen?

Like 2-3 weeks back. They were all about us pulling funds/support from Saudi Arabia in THAT conflict, because KASHOGGI!
This x1000. I guess I'm more open to intervention than most, but if you supported pulling back in Yemen and Obama leaving Iraq, then I have no idea what you're trying to say about Syria. Tucker had this Obama State Dept flunkie on the other night, and, by his logic, I don't understand why we're not still in Vietnam.

Posted by: Vertov at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (mDieY)

168 Maybe between Bert's post and mine you might get the idea that chaos is the goal of Leftists.

Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (/rm4P)

169 I envy you so much for that I could cry. Seriously.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (ptqGC)

We got caught in the blizzard last year. An 8 hour drive turned into 19. 12 hours in SC. I said fuck it. No more. And we're in the new place now and can house a lot of people, so they can either come see us or......

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (9CkBG)

170 *Grabs asbestos pants and boots*
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (bcbK

------

Dude. Raptors LOVE the taste of asbestos.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (8XRCm)

171 "Is this a new thing?"

Apparently

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (cqNba)

172
Funny, I do not recall that anyone cared about what the "enlisted
personnel" thought of the CinC's decisions were when Jug Ears was POTUS.
Is this a new thing?

Posted by: Old Dude at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (LGXGf)

Barry destroyed morale in much of our military. Someone in my paper recently said PDT treats the military like little G. I. Joe's. No, that was Obama, nitwit.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (ptqGC)

173 This is true
Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (Gqd2M)

On what planet?

Posted by: Baroqe Owebama at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (Zz0t1)

174 Damn Sock.

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (Zz0t1)

175 Mattis had a choice: obey and support his commanding officer, or pitch a fit because he wants to have troops everywhere around the world. He chose poorly. As much as we have to admire the guy, he's still not perfect.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (39g3+)

I'm sorry he's leaving, but as he said, he is retiring, not resigning. I respect him and wish him well.

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (XROPS)

176 Correct answer is Trump finds a way to fuck up evrything he does. See
why he can't even do a victory lap on criminal reform bill because he
shit the bed with Mattis, shutdown, and stock market. Nice going, champ!

Posted by: Bone Spurs at December 21, 2018 01:53 PM (dmGmu)

This is true
Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:08 PM (Gqd2M)
---
It's never too early to piss yourself!!

Posted by: Concurring Troll at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (YOhRS)

177 I think the thing is for all folks on the left anything Trump does is wrong. anything.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (AllCR)

178 Or maybe we just disagree with you.

Sure, obviously you do. But that's my point: you're agreeing with the far left lying pieces of trash when you do that. You're on their side, using their arguments and their positions.

Which ought to cause someone pause, yes? Some self reflection? Some time considering whether this is the right choice? Seems that way to me, at least.

Why did Japan and Germany work, but our adventures in democracy fail in the Middle East?

Big difference between total war and gloves-on "we don't want bad optics" war.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (39g3+)

179 Wrong, Mattis left because we are abandoning allies in combat.
Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (Gqd2M)

Can I borrow your mind reading device?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (KUaJL)

180 Nope - staying in those shitholes, without any clear objective ain't worth it.

And not even the trolls can explain why putting our best young men in foreign shitholes to shot at with no strategic objectives is a good idea.

It's "OrangeManBad" all the way down.

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (O7MnT)

181 174

Lol.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (2pQHc)

182 Are the trolls at least entertaining?

Things are about to get nuts. Family Christmas party tonight at my parents. Tomorrow? Well tomorrow evening the madness begins. My inlaws will be arriving from NC and my BiL and his wife and their four kids will be arriving from Texas. Day after Christmas my wife's aunt arrives.

But for the first time in a decade, I won't be traveling at Christmas.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (9CkBG)

Nah. We've had better trolls.

Hopefully all this family in one place is a good thing for you. At the very least, I hope you eat well.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (bcbK8)

183 The fecklessness of Democrats when it comes to war should have been a lesson learned when Vietnam was hung out to dry.

GW should have turned Iraq into rubble to show the rest of the ME that messing with the US was a bad idea.

Instead, he went with nation building and then expected Democrats to follow through on what he set up.
Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (qC1Sy)

---------------

Now's no time to lose faith. They may greet us with flowers somewhere any day now.

Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (0BFUD)

184 *waves at Cochran*

I have two male children of roughly military age. Would not want either to get shot at in Syria for reasons.

If we're all going to the Wayback Machine, sure, I was pro-Iraq War. I totally thought we could punch Saddam, turn Iraq into a stable middle class country, and create an example for the rest of the Mid-East.

So, I was mistaken. We didn't have a plan for in case we won.

Our good wars have gone three to four years. Even most of our bad wars have gone three to four years. Our stupid wars drag on and on.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (fuK7c)

185 Posted by: Kreplach at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (qxq6t)

If you're banned how is that we can see your posts?.Sounds like some computer error. Contact a cob if you haven't done so. I once replied to an old thread and was banned for some time.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (AllCR)

186 Welp, I've got to drag myself to Sam's Club. If ya'll don't hear back, AVENGE ME!

Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (ptqGC)

187 *boof*

Posted by: Ooogly Foogly at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (vtcmf)

188 Or maybe we just disagree with you.
---
Yup. I see no utility in pissing my pants at this point. I understand other people may disagree.

I'm pro-choice.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (YOhRS)

189 Its not like Trump did an Obama and bugged out of a country with next to no defense force and then funded and armed ISIS. We've rebuilt Iraq and its MOD. Dittos Jordan and no need to say anything about Israel. If they can't police their own backyard, well, then they suck at self determination. Too bad.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (2LelM)

190 I must admit that I was taken aback at Mad Dog's reaction. That he thinks that it is a mistake to pull out of the ME leads me to believe that he either is concerned that the money spigots will not continue to flow without perpetual war for perpetual peace, or he just likes to kill people.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (3sjI6)

191 Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (O7MnT)

Its now worse. I've read of at least 3 recent cases where they are charging Spec Ops types with MURDER... in a war zone.

And this is OUR side doing it.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (NgKpN)

192 Don Q. and ARC with other key points.

Our forces in Syria, which have perfectly fine ROE and are there mostly to train/support others, and have not been taking many casualties, are not full conventional maneuver units, with robust defenses. Though air power remains a powerful element in their possible defenses (um, see the destruction of Russian "contractor" force that made mistake of attacking positions including US forces, last year), if Turkey gets serious, or even other players, our forces would be vulnerable.

And by some measure, ISIS has been seriously damaged, to some extent they are "defeated" (the caliphate, or geographical area of actual ISIS control and "administration", has been destroyed). So, by some measures, "mission accomplished" - we have been pursuing a narrow mission, while Syria of course presents a rich buffet of belligerents, dynamics, alliances, and mysteries.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (QDnY+)

193 Why did Japan and Germany work, but our adventures in democracy fail in the Middle East?

Big difference between total war and gloves-on "we don't want bad optics" war.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (39g3+)

------

Nope.

They answer you seek rhymes with Maria. or Piss Lamb.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (8XRCm)

194 Mattis had a choice: obey and support his commanding
officer, or pitch a fit because he wants to have troops everywhere
around the world. He chose poorly. As much as we have to admire the
guy, he's still not perfect.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (39g3+)
Here's what I suspect it came down to with Mattis to some extent: he started believing his own press clippings, particularly those about how much of an intellectual he is. That's not to say he isn't, but I think he got the idea that he was the absolute authority on all things military and foreign policy. I base that on having dealt with and worked for/around H.R. McMaster, and I damn sure know that was the case where he was concerned...he was Obama-like in his "interesting Italians" affectation, more concerned with the trappings and appearance of being an intellectual than actually being an intellectual.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (tOP4K)

195 Wrong, Mattis left because we are abandoning allies in combat. This will destroy US credibility as a partner for decades. Nice going!

Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (Gqd2M)

Like we did in Iraq? Any credibility on that front has long since been crushed. And our so called allies in syria are frequently not good people.

Posted by: Someguy at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (h5Df3)

196 173 *Grabs asbestos pants and boots*
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:11 PM (bcbK

------

Dude. Raptors LOVE the taste of asbestos.
Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (8XRCm)

Pick of poison, I hate burns more than bites.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (bcbK8)

197 Why did Japan and Germany work, but our adventures in democracy fail in the Middle East? In Japan and Germany we physically defeated the underlying ideologies. We proved the Emperor of Japan was a man not a man/god. We proved the third Reich was not superior.

We won't even criticize Islam, hell our leaders praise it. Under those conditions we can never successfully force convert the ME and let's not kid ourselves that is exactly what we tried to do. We wanted to sell them on our secular religion of liberal democracy.
Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 02:10 PM (50gG9)

Also, in both cases their cultures were amenable to our occupation. For the Germans they already had a western culture with some basis in western democracy (though with a long standing authoritarian flavor). For the japanese they were obedient to the emperor/govt./leadership and when that leadership surrendered and decided to support the occupation they followed suite.

Also, the Communist menace helped them set their priorities in defeat.

You find none of that in the middle east, including even the ingrained historical concept of nation states in many cases, not to mention self government in any form. Tribalism, religious sectarianism, and religious inflexibility.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (jdGlx)

198 This will destroy US credibility as a partner for decades.

Pretty sure Obamao already did that. Israel had to (mostly) stop sharing intelligence with us because Obama was passing it to Israel's enemies.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (9qZ3S)

199 This is true
Posted by: Googly Moogly

Remember this skit by Monty Python?

https://youtu.be/vlmGknvr_Pg

Where "Mr Hilter" goes to make a speech and his buddies walk around the audience saying things like "he's got a point!" and "He's right, you know?"

That's what we have here heh. Probably even the same dude.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (39g3+)

200 Hopefully all this family in one place is a good thing for you. At the very least, I hope you eat well.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (bcbK

I'll be doing most of the cooking, so yes, eating well. Headed to the store tomorrow to buy ALL THE THINGS.

*waves hello to Bander*

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (9CkBG)

201 Welp, I've got to drag myself to Sam's Club. If ya'll don't hear back, AVENGE ME!
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (ptqGC)

-----

**** Slides "club pickup feature" through the USB port

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (8XRCm)

202 I was in for Iraq because I was hoping it was a forward base for taking out Iran and then cowing the Saudis.

Posted by: garrett at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (hRVsV)

203 203 @189

You can only see my posts before they get wiped.

Otherwise I'm spectral.
Posted by: Kreplach at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (qxq6t)

Ah ha! I see you!

Welcome back

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (bcbK8)

204 >>189 Posted by: Kreplach at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (qxq6t)

Carol Ann? Carol Ann! Come to the light, Carol Ann!!

Posted by: Zod at December 21, 2018 02:17 PM (Bdeb0)

205 So, I was mistaken. We didn't have a plan for in case we won.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (fuK7c)

Oh, there was a plan, it was just a really shitty plan.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:17 PM (tOP4K)

206 Isn't that what Alex named 'the girls'?

Eris bequeathed them the names.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:17 PM (fuK7c)

207 We installed a dictator in Japan after the war, I'm not so familiar with west germany. Turning Iraq into a democracy straight off the bat wqs dumb, and no attempt was made to address the fact that the country was composed of 3 separate nations(sunni, kurds, shia).

Posted by: Someguy at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (h5Df3)

208 Nyt and WaPo were 100% against troops in Syria less than 12 months ago. Today pulling out is the worst thing Trump could do.

I don't give a fuck about Syria. Or Turkey. Or the Kurds. They have been fighting forever and will continue to fight forever. Why American lives and money need to be there to watch is something nobody ever explains to me.

A week from now nobody will have remembered any of this.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (2pQHc)

209 I'm not saying that point of view is wrong, but I am saying it is preposterous for Noam Chomsky, millionaire socialist and bitter opponent of Bush's military actions and military actions in general, to suddenly be cheerleading for US troops occupying a precious Muslim land.

This has to be the fastest switching by the Left from doves to hawks since Nazi Germany invaded Communist Russia

Posted by: kbdabear at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (0Ntuf)

210 This will destroy US credibility as a partner for decades.

Pretty sure Obamao already did that. Israel had to (mostly) stop sharing intelligence with us because Obama was passing it to Israel's enemies.

Posted by: bonhomme at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (9qZ3S)
---
Yup. If part of our role there is to restrain Iran--guess who's money they are still using to mount their charge?

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (YOhRS)

211 *climbs up on her stepstool*

ALEX SAYS HI!

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (9CkBG)

212 Loved reading all the neocons calling leaving Syria appeasement and tossing out Chamberlain.
Idiots, don't they know Trump IS Hitler?

Posted by: Inogame at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (ySZHT)

213
We installed a dictator in Japan after the war.

-----

MacArthur was a dick.... but that is a little harsh.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (8XRCm)

214 If you are clamoring for a never-ending U.S. military presence in Syria and Afghanistan, the burden is on you to specifically define what military and political victory looks like in each country, when/how it will be achieved, and the costs in lives and dollars it will require.

I first said this circa 2003 -

What is 'victory' ?
An accompanied tour.

If that was an acceptable definition everyone would have said fvck this and demoted back home.

The so-called leaders don't want to define victotry because it would end their little adventures or the General population would pull the plug because real victory over there is ludicrous.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (1g7ch)

215 Oh, there was a plan, it was just a really shitty plan.

Right, we had a plan. We were carrying it out. It was actually beginning to work. But the left betrayed it all in some of the most blatant and horrific, open treason I've ever seen, and the American people have no patience to carry out something that long term. In retrospect that should have been obvious, it was never going to fly in today's society.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (39g3+)

216 This has to be the fastest switching by the Left from doves to hawks since Nazi Germany invaded Communist Russia

Posted by: kbdabear at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (0Ntuf)
---
That's the left. Fresh principles flown in daily.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (YOhRS)

217 195 Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (O7MnT)

Its now worse. I've read of at least 3 recent cases where they are charging Spec Ops types with MURDER... in a war zone.

And this is OUR side doing it.
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (NgKpN)

No. Not OUR side. Treasonous fuckweasels wearing OUR uniform.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (bcbK8)

218
Wrong, Mattis left because we are abandoning allies in combat.
by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (Gqd2M)

Turkey our NATO ally is accusing the U.S. of training and harboring PKK terrorist on the Syrian frontier.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (TAmPV)

219 "194
I must admit that I was taken aback at Mad Dog's reaction. That he
thinks that it is a mistake to pull out of the ME leads me to believe
that he either is concerned that the money spigots will not continue to
flow without perpetual war for perpetual peace, or he just likes to kill
people.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (3sjI6)"
...

I posted this several times yesterday - I can easily envision a situation where Mattis resigned because of conerns about Turkey's treatment of our allies.
For some reason, their behavior during the last major incursion is not getting much attention. They basically trucked in a bunch of irregular forces that raped and butchered everything that moved, both combatants and civilians.

If I was in that position, had an indication that was going to happen again to allies who had already been repeatedly fucked by Obama, and couldn't secure permission to do something about it, then I'd resign too.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (eAshZ)

220 This will destroy US credibility as a partner for decades. Nice going!
Posted by: Googly Moogly

What credibility? You were told by the same people that Bush destroyed.

WAR BAD, ORANGE MAN BADDER!@!!!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (ZejZP)

221 Turkey our NATO ally....

--------

Now I see the flaw in your logic.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (8XRCm)

222 Big difference between total war and gloves-on "we don't want bad optics" war.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:13 PM (39g3+)

If that's what it took to win then we should never have went because as a nation we're too big a pussy to do that. It's silly for you to even imagine that would happen.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (50gG9)

223 Now's no time to lose faith. They may greet us with flowers somewhere any day now.
Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:14 PM (0BFUD)

They did welcome us when we first arrived. But people can be happy to be liberated and still want the basics restored such as power and water, and they still have old grudges between neighbors that have been simmering for decades or centuries.

That said, we did not lose in Iraq. It has a functioning, if somewhat dysfunctional, representative government, and is no longer a regional threat. When we left in 2010, Obama and Biden crowed about how safe it was.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (wCmLp)

224
Also, the Communist menace helped them set their priorities in defeat.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM (jdGlx)

Less that, than the Nazis and the Empire behaving like total barbarians.

We absolutely could have levelled towns in retaliation for their crimes, but of far greater concern to them would be turning the matter over to the Russians, or letting China occupy Japan. I think the Japanese would have taken more nuclear hits before letting the Chinese rampage through their country, out for revenge.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (yBq7A)

225 Wrong, Mattis left because we are abandoning allies in combat. This will destroy US credibility as a partner for decades. Nice going!
Posted by: Googly Moogly at December 21, 2018 02:12 PM (Gqd2M)

You mean like G Bush did in Storm? where we helped start a rebellion, then let Saddam crush it?

Or maybe what Clinton did in Kosovo, and with Israel, and others.

or what GW did time and time again? where we did not back allies?

or what perhaps that Peace Prize winner Obama? who invaded multiple countries with no declarations of war, when we had specific agreements not to (like in Libya).

The fact is the US has been a fickle ally forever, this did not start, nor will it stop, with Donald Trump.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (NgKpN)

226 Sure, obviously you do. But that's my point: you're agreeing with the far left lying pieces of trash when you do that. You're on their side, using their arguments and their positions.

I'm not agreeing with anyone. I have my own goddamned opinion. It's that simple.

A lot of conservatives dug themselves in so deep during the Bush administration that they cannot admit to themselves that they were wrong on Iraq.

It was never going to turn out well. If we broke Saddam's regime and immediately left, Iran and others would sweep into the power vacuum. And the alternative, nation-building, simply isn't in our character; nor should it be. The last time we did it with any success was after a global war in which the very existence of countries was on the table and our enemies were defeated in a total war that we are never going to wage absent an existential conflict. If you and you're family want to spend 20+ years in another country, feel free.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (ppBhU)

227 It all boils down to one thing:

Orange Man Bad !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (mfOi4)

228 And by some measure, ISIS has been seriously damaged, to some extent they are "defeated" (the caliphate, or geographical area of actual ISIS control and "administration", has been destroyed). So, by some measures, "mission accomplished" - we have been pursuing a narrow mission, while Syria of course presents a rich buffet of belligerents, dynamics, alliances, and mysteries.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 21, 2018 02:15 PM (QDnY+)
---
From what I read, it sounds like Trump goaded ISIS into a barrage to show themselves. We do not know that this is not what is going on.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:21 PM (YOhRS)

229 This has to be the fastest switching by the Left from doves to hawks since Nazi Germany invaded Communist Russia

"ORANGE MAN BAD!!! What else do you need to know???"
--Leftist-Cuck coalition

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:21 PM (39g3+)

230 We're leaving, sorta.

But, the GCC and the Kingdom aren't, it's their part of the world, and if they want to bust Iran's chops...

...all I can say is "Have at it."

P.S. - And no, we aren't abandoning the Kurds.

P.P.S. - Trump's being *very* clever in letting M.E. proxies check (and thump as needed) Turkey rather than US troops... which is too problematic for words.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 02:21 PM (W+kMI)

231
Turkey our NATO ally.... --------
Now I see the flaw in your logic.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (8XRCm)

Like it or not they're still part of NATO.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:21 PM (TAmPV)

232 This looks like "maintaining strong alliances and respecting our allies" to me.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y9pecuzl

"The French Foreign Ministry confirms that following talks with U.S. officials, its forces will replace U.S. forces in northern Syria to help maintain security in the region."

Posted by: geoffb at December 21, 2018 02:22 PM (zOpu5)

233 Also - the fact that Turkey is in NATO is a damn good reason to consider leaving it - or demanding they leave. The Turks are not the West's friends.

Posted by: Mike at December 21, 2018 02:22 PM (ozGXj)

234 216
This has to be the fastest switching by the Left from doves to hawks since Nazi Germany invaded Communist Russia

Posted by: kbdabear at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (0Ntuf)

---

That's the left. Fresh principles flown in daily.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:19 PM (YOhRS)

Just wish those fresh ideas didn't have e. coli.

Want some romaine lettuce?

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 02:22 PM (UsCnO)

235 Reading the ONT were I left off this morning and see comments lots of cars burnt in Baltimore, did the mayor or governor put a carbon tax on gasoline overnight?

Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (/rm4P)

236 We absolutely could have levelled towns in retaliation for their crimes, but of far greater concern to them would be turning the matter over to the Russians, or letting China occupy Japan. I think the Japanese would have taken more nuclear hits before letting the Chinese rampage through their country, out for revenge.
Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (yBq7A)

Good point. The Russians sure showed they could return the favor in abundance on German soil.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (jdGlx)

237 Turkey is no longer the secular ally they were in the 50's and 60's.

They are an Islamic state for realz

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (bcbK8)

238 C'mon! You know it's much better for our allies to pull out of a hot theater while we were "leading from behind"!

Leaving nobody in front of us. Because we're the US. We're the one country that can't get mad at allies--or we will make our allies mad at us!

And that's bad.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (YOhRS)

239 The Trump effect has once again ripped of those masks and has shown our 'elites' to be pathetic mewling quims. It's amazing really.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (3LCk9)

240 The Turks are not the West's friends.
Posted by: Mike

The Turks could be, but the islamists in control can't be.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (ZejZP)

241 Hopefully our NeoCon Missionary Objectives will now be forever buried. Number one - defend America. Its people, its culture and its economic pre-eminence. Doubt we need 11 aircraft carriers to do that.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (2LelM)

242

I'm not hypocritical, I'm opinion-fluid!

Posted by: Little Lupe Occupied-Cervix at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (6K7U0)

243 You know what, I don't even give a shit about Syria or the general situation in it, but keeping up the farce that Turkey is an "ally" needs to stop.

This isn't 1944/45 where we need to pretend that they're not barbarians in order to help defeat some major opponent.

My preferred outcome would be dumping a few tens of millions of antitank/antiair weapons on the Kurds and let them handle it, they're plenty capable of it with the right equipment and it'd be a bargain.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (eAshZ)

244 Erickson: "Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision."

I don't believe that for a second.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (oNFAg)

245 Posted by: Truffalo at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (kChSc)

You ruined your point by the gratuitous slap about Texas, troll.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (AllCR)

246 The trolls are out in force today, amazing. This must really matter to them for... some reason.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (39g3+)

247 ...
I think the Japanese would have taken more nuclear hits before letting the Chinese rampage through their country, out for revenge.
Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (yBq7A)

-------------

In fairness the Chinese were tied up rampaging through Formosa.

Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (0BFUD)

248 Turkey our NATO ally.... --------
Now I see the flaw in your logic.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (8XRCm)

Like it or not they're still part of NATO.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:21 PM (TAmPV)

-------

Same Turkey that denied us a Northern front at the last minute in Gulf War II???

Same Turkey that Champions Hamas??

Same Turkey that holds American as hostages???

Some fucking Ally.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (8XRCm)

249 The funniest thing is WAPO's Democracy Dies In Darkness. Here we have the most transparent and open WH in American History doing the will of those that voted for him and they think they are entering a Dark Age. Jeebus.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (2LelM)

250 ... Which allies are we abandoning, exactly? Saudi Arabia, the country the left has demanded we cut ties with all year? Israel, which has obviously and hugely benefitted from Trump? Tbh, the only ones I feel even slightly bad for are the Kurds. But they don't have the power to secure an independent homeland without some real diplomatic backing. I think the Saudis and Israel absolutely should join with America in building Kurdistan, but I also understand why that is a major, OPTIONAL undertaking.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (yBq7A)

251 ...so, Obama drew a red-line in the sand (then didn't enforce it) therefore Trump has to stay? The Left makes "fungible" rules, that The Right is supposed to defend? Good times! Good times...

Posted by: pahound at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (nuAaS)

252 You ruined your point by the gratuitous slap about Texas, troll.

It was appeal to authority fallacy all the way down. What these guys don't seem to grok is that when you pull out those rhetorical fallacies it ruins the entire effect.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (39g3+)

253 Erickson: "Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision."

I don't believe that for a second.
Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (oNFAg)

He doesn't know anyone in the military.

And sorry about your unfortunate hash.....

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (Zz0t1)

254 213
We installed a dictator in Japan after the war.

-----

MacArthur was a dick.... but that is a little harsh.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:18 PM (8XRCm)

Not meant in the same sense as tyrant. He wasn't a monarch(no dynasty and temporary office) therefore the appropriate term is dictator. Think of the Roman use of the term.

Posted by: Someguy at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (h5Df3)

255 I do not understand the criticism of Mattis.

"I disagree with the President. I have not been able to persuade him to my point of view. I will relinquish my office."

That's sort of exactly how it should work.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)

256 247 The trolls are out in force today, amazing. This must really matter to them for... some reason.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (39g3+)
-----------------

Yeah, they for the war before they were against it and against the war before they were for it.

Best summation: Orange man bad.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (qC1Sy)

257 149
The Kindle version of The Chili Cookbook: A History of the One-Pot
Classic, with Cook-off Worthy Recipes from Three-Bean to Four-Alarm and
Con Carne to Vegetarian by Robb Walsh is available on Amazon today for a $1.99.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 21, 2018 02:09 PM (ctuyM)

Chapter 7: The wonderful carrot, what can't it do?.

Chapter 14: The secret ingredient of success: cinnamon.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (UsCnO)

258 I don't believe that for a second.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (oNFAg)

Funny that...XBRADTC doesn't believe it either. And while he isn't an Elite, he is sort of an enlisted.

I wonder who is correct?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (wYseH)

259 I am afraid I am unable to comment on this issue until I hear what Alexei Occasional-Commie has to say about it.

Of course, she is already taking a "mental health" break after her first several exhausting weeks hanging around DC, so I could be waiting a while.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (FzjAl)

260 I feel sorry for people who can't distinguish turbulence from failure or helplessness.

Trump has failed at relatively nothing. Obama failed at most everything he did.

But the press complains and agitates about one and squees over the other.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (YOhRS)

261 232 This looks like "maintaining strong alliances and respecting our allies" to me.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y9pecuzl

"The French Foreign Ministry confirms that following talks with U.S. officials, its forces will replace U.S. forces in northern Syria to help maintain security in the region."
Posted by: geoffb at December 21, 2018 02:22 PM (zOpu5)

That's... just plain weird.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (NgKpN)

262 This is another amazing political moment. Most Americans want the Wall and they don't want our troops in Syria (or in Afghanistan for that matter) any longer. I would wager that strong majorities favor these things, and now the media and the cuck wing of the Republican party (which is most of it) are all screaming non-stop that these two very popular and very prudent things are all because of Trump, Trump owns them, Trump wants to build a wall and pull out of endless overseas wars. He owns these things and no one else does. What a time to be alive.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (oNFAg)

263 That's sort of exactly how it should work.

He had two choices:

Go with this commanding officer
Leave

He chose leave. He should have chosen stay. This was absolutely the wrong point at which to make that call. You do that when there's something seriously wrong morally and a horrific mistake being made. Pulling out of a conflict we never should have been in, in the first place, after six months warning is not the time.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (39g3+)

264 Best summation: Orange man bad.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (qC1Sy)
---
That's what you said the last time I clicked on you.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (YOhRS)

265 I am not well versed in what's been going on in Syria, but who are the good guys in that mess?

Seem to recall that Obama had us arming and training people who then fought for ISIS and AQ. Also, that McCain, who was gung-ho for our involvement there, was photographed grinning while standing next to some known ISIS guys, allegedly/possibly even Baghdadi himself?

I encourage Congress to declare war if they really believe this is a fight the US should be in.

Posted by: Lizzy at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (W+vEI)

266 Besides Sean Davis went to Wharton based on his academic record so Texas Tech couldn't have been too much of a "shit**** These trolls are stupid.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (AllCR)

267 "
251
... Which allies are we abandoning, exactly? Saudi Arabia, the country
the left has demanded we cut ties with all year? Israel, which has
obviously and hugely benefitted from Trump? Tbh, the only ones I feel
even slightly bad for are the Kurds. But they don't have the power to
secure an independent homeland without some real diplomatic backing. I
think the Saudis and Israel absolutely should join with America in
building Kurdistan, but I also understand why that is a major, OPTIONAL
undertaking.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:26 PM (yBq7A)"
...
The Kurds are about it but the situation is pretty bad.

Aside from all the 90's stuff, Obama squeezed them rather hard with asset freezing stuff, blocked arms shipments, and then jerked off for years while ISIS systematically slaughtered their civilians and sold their women and children into slavery.
Now Turkey is very likely going to roll in and rape and slaughter a bunch of them - again. Seriously, I can't stress this enough - fuck Turkey.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (eAshZ)

268 245 Erickson: "Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision."

I don't believe that for a second.
Posted by: Brewdog

With good reason. He's lying.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (3LCk9)

269 Where is Erickson's evidence that our troops are desperate to remain in these shitholes where their lives are in danger? He's not arguing for why our continued presence in those places is necessary. Just this empty assertion that our military is so enamored of it that they are almost willing to stage a coup.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (/qEW2)

270 Erickson: "Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision."

I don't believe that for a second.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:24 PM (oNFAg)
Erickson's an idiot and he pulled that directly from his ass.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (tOP4K)

271 That's sort of exactly how it should work.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)

Yup. And no leaking. he posted his resignation letter. I am unsure of the correct path in Syria, but I sure as shit don't think it is an existential change.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (wYseH)

272 @259 > Funny that...XBRADTC doesn't believe it either. And while he isn't an Elite, he is sort of an enlisted. I wonder who is correct?

CBD, somehow I just don't believe that Erickson has his finger on the pulse of the average Marine at Camp Lejeune.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (oNFAg)

273 A lot of conservatives dug themselves in so deep during the Bush administration that they cannot admit to themselves that they were wrong on Iraq.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (ppBhU)

I was wrong on Iraq. I imagined that due to Islamic doctrine all the Mujaheddin would travel to Iraq to defend Islamic soil, as they're obligated to do, and there in a war zone we would have the legal right to wipe them out in a war of attrition. In retrospect..........

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (50gG9)

274 Just to be clear, I want us out of Syria and A-stan. But I also want to dump some (relative) pocket change on the Kurds in the form of arms and put the screws to Turkey on the diplomatic front.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (eAshZ)

275 I hear Euros all the time talk about US military adventures as if we were doing it entirely on our own initiative. Our migrants are YOUR fault... IMO being the world's policeman/nation breaker/builder was our globalist assignment. No one else could do it.

The euro governments either went along very willingly or egged us on in the case of Libya and Syria. They always maintained enough plausible deniability not to piss off the anti US, pacifist leftist euro street but we were doing work they felt needed to be done for the cause.

In reality, and especially after fracking, the middle east is far more of a strategic issue for Europe. They can take over the boots on the ground role now (well, they physically lack the ability, but conceptually...)

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (jdGlx)

276 >>There will be more resignations in DoD. But keep sniggering.

So? There are resignations every day.

Posted by: JackStraw at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (/tuJf)

277 Posted by: Truffalo at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (kChSc)

Unless you're being paid, I never do understand who leftists go on generally Trump supporting sites. Who are you trying to convince?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (AllCR)

278

I was afore it afore I was again it!

Dunno matter, Orange Man Bad, allatime!

Posted by: Little Lupe Occupied-Cervix at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (6K7U0)

279 I am not well versed in what's been going on in Syria, but who are the good guys in that mess?

Some of the civilians, hiding and trying to survive. None of the players are good guys, not even the Kurds. Overall the Kurds are the least bad, but they're still stirring up trouble in one of the two nations in the middle east where they could actually live in peace and stability.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (39g3+)

280
You ruined your point by the gratuitous slap about Texas, troll.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (AllCR)
--------------

These are the same people who will speak freely about a book of which they know nothing, the Bible, yet, criticize someone who dares comment about something which the trolls think they're not qualified to speak about.

It's kind of amazing, in a way.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (qC1Sy)

281 The trolls are out in force today, amazing. This must really matter to them for... some reason.

Trump is beating the left's collective asses so fast that the fat, lazy, calcified , Progtard Nevertrump Axis can't keep up!
The whining sound is the deflation of their safe space bubbles.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (LL1Be)

282 >>He chose leave. He should have chosen stay.

He should've chosen seppuku. Any self-respecting "warrior-monk" would have.

Posted by: Zod at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (Bdeb0)

283 We are spending $45B a year on Afghanistan. What exactly does winning look like there? Bueller? BTW - $45B will build one fine Border Wall from Sea to Shining Sea.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (2LelM)

284 "Reading the ONT were I left off this morning and see comments lots of cars burnt in Baltimore, did the mayor or governor put a carbon tax on gasoline overnight?"

No.

But I just read my BGE utility bill.
And over 70% of my electricity comes from coal and nuclear power.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (cqNba)

285 Not our problem. and the following list of nations can fvck off and murder each other to their hearts content.

Syria
Russia
~~Ottoman Empire part deux~~ Turkey
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Afghanistan
Iraq

If Russia wants to invade Turkey and reclaim Constantinople. Don't care.

If Erdogan wants to conquer Syria, Saudia Arabia and Iran to declare himself the neo-ottoman shiek. Don't care.

If the Saudis want to slaughter the Iranian Shias b/c their version of the satantic death cult has quables about the who's goat Mr.Mohamy fucked last back whenever. I. Still. Don't. Care.

Same for the rest.

....

And then use the Syria money instead to build the fvcking wall.

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (aqpW6)

286 Just dawned on me we are fighting among ourselves over Muslums again

Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (/rm4P)

287 He was called a cuck here yesterday.
Posted by: Truffalo at December 21, 2018 02:30 PM (kChSc)
+++++++
By some. Others were making the point that resigning is acceptable if you're down with the agenda. I made the point myself that it's unfortunate to lose a SecDef who has helped rebuild our forces, but that this is preferable to his remaining on and back-stabbing a la Rex Tillerson.

I hope you enjoy your broad brush.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (I2dne)

288 The Obama administration plan for Syria, in principle, wasn't a bad one. Instead of directly bombing the regime and toppling it like in Libya, we would support rebel forces in gaining and holding territory until the regime was at a breaking point, force a ceasefire, and then force the regime to negotiate with the rebel groups.

The problem started after the red line fiasco where Obama welcomed Russian entrance into the conflict on the grounds of removing chemical weapons stockpiles, which he obviously got rolled on. Once the russians were involved, Assad was never going to be put into an untenable position in relation to the rebels, which meant the plan of forcing negotiation required deployment of US forces to be used as human shields and dissuade Syrian/Russian/Iranian advances.

The flaw in this plan was that a) no one voted for it and b) unlike the original, where Rebels could theoretically tolerate permanent stalemate, we know that we WON'T tolerate it. Eventually there is going to be an insurgencies and ethnic conflict. Russia and Iran are willing to wait us out. We have no reason to promise the SDF a 10 year deployment to Northern Syria hoping the Russians and Iranians will hand us everything that we want if we wait long enough.

Assad won half a decade ago. We deployed to fight ISIS alongside rebels who wanted territory for THEIR civil war. We got the win, they got the territory, training, and weapons. We don't have to defend them. The Pentagon just can't let go of the fact that their plan failed, just like Afghanistan. They obviously tried to implement their plan without POTUS approval and are throwing a temper tantrum that the one man actually in charge of our foreign policy isn't deferring to their nearly 20 year history of failure.

Posted by: GrapeDrink at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (prRje)

289 Who is the MILFy pronstar looking chic filling in for Brooke Baldwin on CNN right now.

Posted by: literally serious at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (GxycF)

290 Sen. Ted Cruz has an interesting war beard going on.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (fuK7c)

291 Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (AllCR)
--------------

These are the same people who will speak freely about a book of which they know nothing, the Bible,

Posted by: Blake

------

Youre a fucking idiot.

You're a fucking disgrace.

And not necessarily in that order.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (8XRCm)

292 Another thing I love about this is that all the people encouraging everyone to freak out about pulling ground forces out of Syria will never stop for a second and let anyone know just how many (or how few) ground forces we actually have in that shithole country.

It's not a lot, really. There is however one small Marine artillery unit that has been laying down a LOT of fire. Good work, Marines. But it's time to come home.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:33 PM (oNFAg)

293 Odds that Trump's favorability polls hit all time highs after this and the Shut Down?

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:33 PM (2LelM)

294 It was never going to turn out well. If we broke Saddam's regime and immediately left, Iran and others would sweep into the power vacuum. And the alternative, nation-building, simply isn't in our character; nor should it be.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 21, 2018 02:20 PM (ppBhU)

Success may have been possible, but the Bushes went out of their way to tolerate Iranian attacks on our soldiers and support for the terrorists. When W didn't leave Iran without the electricity to run a toaster, he made it clear he didn't have the grapes to secure Iraq.

President Trump already burned ISIS to the ground, simply by getting assurances from the Saudis. There is too much downside to staying in exchange for almost zero upside.

Besides, we obviously have problems at home which are much more important.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:33 PM (yBq7A)

295 >>That's sort of exactly how it should work.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (fuK7c)

It's supposed to work like this:

"I am tendering my resignation effective X. Serving our nation has been an honor. I wish you the best of luck. Respectfully, Y"

Posted by: Zod at December 21, 2018 02:33 PM (Bdeb0)

296 >>>287 We are spending $45B a year on Afghanistan. What exactly does winning look like there? Bueller? BTW - $45B will build one fine Border Wall from Sea to Shining Sea.
Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (2LelM)
________
Winning in Afghanistan War is measured by a regularly increasing the budget for Afghanistan War.

Its Math. EZ

Posted by: Max Boot - freshly wiped chin at December 21, 2018 02:33 PM (aqpW6)

297
Some fucking Ally.

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:25 PM (8XRCm)

I'm all for throwing Turkey out of NATO but until that happens they're NATO allies.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (TAmPV)

298 alternate universe news: outrage that the generals are disagreeing with Pres Obama's decision to [fill in blank]

Posted by: mallfly the Georgia Peach at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (ZqRa6)

299 We are spending $45B a year on Afghanistan. What exactly does winning look like there? Bueller? BTW - $45B will build one fine Border Wall from Sea to Shining Sea.

Yeah, at this point its just a waste of money and blood. There are two choices in Afghanistan, as I see it:

1) get out now.
2) Take the leash off and let our guys do their job as they need to. Then get out.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (39g3+)

300 There will be more resignations in DoD. But keep sniggering.
Posted by: Truffalo at December 21, 2018 02:28 PM (kChSc)

Cool. We could probably use about 50% or more in DOD and most other bureaucratic fiefdoms. No need to replace them either.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (jdGlx)

301 Trump should declare Open, Immediate Immigration and Accelerated Citizenship Processing for All Kurds and start a 24/7/365 airlift to fly them straight to DC.

Make the DemonRats and NeverTrumpers put their fucking money where their their dick-shaped mouths are.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (FzjAl)

302

There are 2000 troops there. SOF, Intel Weenies, Squirrels and a bit of air supporting same and usual support activity.

1999 want to be home.

That Guy found a nice goat friend.

End of story.

Posted by: In Vino Veritits at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (6K7U0)

303 If Syria's Kurds don't want to be attacked by Turkey, there is a simple solution: Allow the Syrian army to take control of the border, and thereby get between them and the Turks. In other words, return to the way things were in 2011. If they foolishly choose not to do this (as was the case in Afrin), the result is on them.

Posted by: Jon at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (q+ZaN)

304 ORANGEMANBAD
ORANGEMANBAD
ORANGEMANBAD
ORANGEMANBAD

click.....whir.....click.....click......

Posted by: TruffaloNPC at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (3LCk9)

305 This is one of those situations where I don't initially agree with Trump's decision, but the argument about whether I have a moral prerogative to light my hair on fire and run around like burning rat seems to take up the discussion time.

I didn't like Trump's initial decision to pass funding without wall funding. Turns out it wasn't the time to get the kerosene...

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (YOhRS)

306 Youre a fucking idiot.

You're a fucking disgrace.

And not necessarily in that order.
Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (8XRCm)
---------------------

What in the world?

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (qC1Sy)

307 The extent to which mostly MSM-inspired mythology and distortion forms the bedrock "factual framework" of so many "conservatives" never ceases to amaze, and discourage. Never more dramatically evident than in discussions like this.

Anyway.

Given the overall context - close to a full-court press against Iran - moves like this have less danger to send "the wrong signal". I don't think Tehran has much doubt about US resolve when it comes to our basic conflict with them.

There could be a legit concern, not all strategic, about abandoning the Kurds. But we didn't get involved to create a Kurdish state in part of Syria. We've played a pretty good double- and triple-game with Iraq's Kurds, whereby the Iraqi Arabs knew (since March 1991) there would be no return to the status quo ante in terms of Baghdad's control/abuse, and the Iraqi Kurds have been induced to continue to participate in Iraq as a largely de facto autonomous region.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (QDnY+)

308 262 - Don Q

No, not really. Prior to WWII, Syria was "French Palestine" (and was part of Vichy France).

As things go, that was their neck of the woods, and the French have a long history of intervening in former colonies (see recent African ops for further details).

Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (W+kMI)

309 287
We are spending $45B a year on Afghanistan. What exactly does winning
look like there? Bueller? BTW - $45B will build one fine Border Wall
from Sea to Shining Sea.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:31 PM (2LelM)

$25 Billion for the Wall, and $20 Billion left over for the bestest, Most Massive Mo Me in world history!

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (UsCnO)

310 I'm oK with that Erick. You will be the first one I hang.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (gI6+S)

311
I dont get it.

Why all the Syracuse hate??

Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (8XRCm)

312 I can see the benefits of setting up a stable regime in the middle east, the problem is that Democrats eventually come into power and push it all away. Not that the GOPe has done a good job of setting up stable regimes either.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (p0nVR)

313
290 Just dawned on me we are fighting among ourselves over Muslums again
----------------------
Well, we could change the channel and fight about Mestizos. Its all good if we don't talk about us and our country.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (2LelM)

314 Funny that...XBRADTC doesn't believe it either. And while he isn't an Elite, he is sort of an enlisted.

I wonder who is correct?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 21, 2018 02:27 PM (wYseH)

I know a bunch of folks and have more in my family that are active, reserves, or retired military. I don't believe it at all. My BiL did several overseas tours including in Shitcanistan and Iraq. He's reserves now. I'll be asking him what he and his buddies think.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (9CkBG)

315 >>>Nice troll, here is a cookie.

Giving them attention and quoting them is the cookie. It makes for nice fat, sleek trolls, like seals who return to fertile fishing grounds.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (/qEW2)

316 If we have a coup will we get a junta? I like juntas.

Addendum: autocorrect prefers "juntass". Now I look that up.

Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (0BFUD)

317
Posted by: Truffalo

Hey, It's Erickson!
How the sinuses there mucus-boy?

Posted by: mikeyG at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (LL1Be)

318 Winning in Afghanistan War is measured by a regularly increasing the budget for Afghanistan War.

Its Math. EZ

Every cent that goes into Afghanistan is a cent that doesn't go into a Navy that can reasonably oppose China.

If you've got a zero-sum defense budget you need to prepare for (well, really to deter) the next war, not continue defending boy-buggering warlords in a place we should have turned into glass in 2001.

Posted by: JEM at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (8erNz)

319 @304 There will be more resignations in DoD. But keep sniggering.

What's the downside to this?

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:36 PM (oNFAg)

320 Success may have been possible, but the Bushes went out of their way to tolerate Iranian attacks on our soldiers and support for the terrorists. When W didn't leave Iran without the electricity to run a toaster, he made it clear he didn't have the grapes to secure Iraq.

Yeah that was the other side of the coin. Concern about optics. Tying the hands of soldiers. Taking so much care to protect civilians that we were sacrificing our own soldiers and any chance at closing the deal.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:36 PM (39g3+)

321
That's what we have here heh. Probably even the same dude.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:16 PM

That's why I avoided the 'get a room' comment. Don't want to encourage masturbation.

Posted by: Newest Nic at December 21, 2018 02:36 PM (jYje5)

322 That should read as Democrats come into power and piss it all away.

Posted by: Darth Randall at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (p0nVR)

323 Hilarious how all these people who never put on. A uniform want us to stay- huh?

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (gI6+S)

324 I suspect it's the same troll rebooting his modem and agreeing with himself under a new nic. Or lobotomized patients coerced into posting from a different location. Potayto, potahto.

Posted by: joncelli, providing the traditional responses at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (RD7QR)

325 305 Trump should declare Open, Immediate Immigration and Accelerated Citizenship Processing for All Kurds and start a 24/7/365 airlift to fly them straight to DC.

Make the DemonRats and NeverTrumpers put their fucking money where their their dick-shaped mouths are.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (FzjAl)

Kurds are Moslems.

The greatest Moslem General ever, Saladin, was a Kurd.

No thanks. They are currently on our side because of enemy of my enemy... but....

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (NgKpN)

326 As things go, that was their neck of the woods, and the French have a long history of intervening in former colonies (see recent African ops for further details).

All of their former colonies are hellholes as well. The English actually built up the places they colonized. The French used them as slave camps and exploited everything as much as possible while stomping on the locals.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (39g3+)

327 "If we lived in a lesser country than our great nation, today is the day we really would be talking about a military coup. Soldiers down to the enlisted ranks are raising hell about the President's Syria decision."

Yeah, the E4 Mafia is calling Erick Erickson.

Posted by: CPT Crunch at December 21, 2018 02:38 PM (fRgt5)

328 Now Turkey is very likely going to roll in and rape and slaughter a bunch of them - again. Seriously, I can't stress this enough - fuck Turkey.

Posted by: lurker (the other one) at December 21, 2018 02:29 PM (eAshZ)

I mean, I agree, and the existence of Israel shows why Kurdistan could be an exceptional weapon against our enemies in the region. But that's a mortal threat to a lot of nations, which would -guaranteed- start a regional war.

America isn't willing to go all the way for the Kurds, while Turkey will go as far as is necessary.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:38 PM (yBq7A)

329 As for Syria, pull out back to Iraq and focus on continued training and support to Iraqi forces.

Posted by: Colorado Alex In Exile at December 21, 2018 01:54 PM (wCmLp)

We've been in Iraq for 15 years. If they can't fight for themselves at this point, it is worthless. The concept that it takes decades to train a competent military force only says you will never train a competent military force.

Posted by: WOPR at December 21, 2018 02:38 PM (J70i0)

330 To be honest, I could not find Syria on a map and dont understand all of the shifting allegiances and enemies. But since no one can explain what our goal is and what would be a victory for us, Im just fine with pulling out our troops.

Posted by: LASue at December 21, 2018 02:38 PM (XROPS)

331 Here's what I'll say about the crux of the Syria and Afghanistan withdrawals: we are getting out of the sandbox business. The defense focus is going to shift to the Far East and Eastern Europe.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:38 PM (tOP4K)

332 I only see insanely allied with Muslim countries

Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (/rm4P)

333
2) Take the leash off and let our guys do their job as they need to. Then get out.
---------------------
To do that you're gonna need at least two Army Groups and forty years of occupation. Is there something there you fancy that bad?

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (2LelM)

334 I have respect for Mattis, but this endless Middle East shit has got to stop. It astonishes me that there are still alleged experts on foreign policy or at DOD who think we can accomplish anything. Anything at all. They've learned nothing. Which is just astounding.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (oNFAg)

335 Hilarious how all these people who never put on. A uniform want us to stay- huh?

Yeah I'd rather hear from the actual people doing the actual fighting rather than some dude on the internet who hates Trump. And that does not mean the brass at the Pentagon. Their primary goal is personal advancement and making friends with military suppliers for no-work jobs and kickbacks.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (39g3+)

336 325 Hmm, on one side Mattis, Keane, and many others - on the other, Putin, Risk aficionado Sean Davis, and ISIS.....who has the better perspective?

Some of these people have lived it too long, it's the only war they know.

The Mideast is the last war.

If you are fighting a war of convenience for ten years, you've lost, and it just amazes me just what the people of this country have been prepared to put up with.

And, while Afghanistan may have been more or less necessary Iraq was clearly not.

Posted by: JEM at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (8erNz)

337 Taking so much care to protect civilians that we were sacrificing our own soldiers and any chance at closing the deal.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

You can prosecute a war or you can litigate it.

Bush and Co. litigated it until the US public gave up lessn five years into to it.

This isn't the country to sustain a multi-decadal project to remake the ME region by region.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (ZejZP)

338 Don't give me that bullshit the military has a singular perspective on this. They don't. That the reason the president pulled out.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (gI6+S)

339 No thanks. They are currently on our side because of enemy of my enemy... but....
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:37 PM (NgKpN)

Yep. I'm not invested in any of them.

Posted by: WOPR at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (J70i0)

340 For most of my lifetime, we have gotten into nasty wars thanks to nasty muzzies and we haven't once looked through history to see what to do about them.

There is no negotiating with them or bringing them around to democracy and peace as they only understand and respect brute force.

Enough. Shore up our defenses; make ourselves strong and battle-ready, but leave the muzzies to destroy each other as they always do.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (9Ni3Z)

341 To do that you're gonna need at least two Army Groups and forty years of occupation. Is there something there you fancy that bad?

Actually I think that as well as we're doing with crippling and idiotic ROE and social justice policies implemented by Obama, just taking the leash off would make a huge difference.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (39g3+)

342 312 262 - Don Q

No, not really. Prior to WWII, Syria was "French Palestine" (and was part of Vichy France).

As things go, that was their neck of the woods, and the French have a long history of intervening in former colonies (see recent African ops for further details).
Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (W+kMI)

Their government might fall. They have riots in the streets.

And they are going to agree to spend Treasure and potentially lives, to defend a country that is not theirs?

Except for some history, how is this in France's interest at all?

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (NgKpN)

343 Reading the ONT were I left off this morning and see comments lots of cars burnt in Baltimore, did the mayor or governor put a carbon tax on gasoline overnight?
Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (/rm4P)

It's just the standard Kwanzaa celebration.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (3sjI6)

344 I'm all for throwing Turkey out of NATO but until that happens they're NATO allies.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (TAmPV)

Allies in name only. They're our enemies now, no matter what pretenses you keep.

Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 21, 2018 02:41 PM (J+mig)

345
Allies in name only. They're our enemies now, no matter what pretenses you keep.
Posted by: Cato by Phone at December 21, 2018 02:41 PM (J+mig)

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (TAmPV)

346 What in the world?
Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (qC1Sy)

I think he was referring to the troll or his method of conversation, not you

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (AllCR)

347 Yeah that was the other side of the coin. Concern about optics. Tying the hands of soldiers. Taking so much care to protect civilians that we were sacrificing our own soldiers and any chance at closing the deal.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:36 PM (39g3+)

If the past two years have proven anything, it's that President Trump doesn't give a fuck about optics. No one forced W to adopt failing policies. He did that on his own. Which is why he left office in shameful failure, and ushered in an alien saboteur as President.

Which he was fine with, btw. By contrast, Orangeman Bad.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (yBq7A)

348 Except for some history, how is this in France's interest at all?
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (NgKpN)

They need practice throwing down their weapons and surrendering. It takes practice to give up with élan.

Posted by: Anonymous White Male at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (3sjI6)

349 Mattis got thrown out of CENTCOM for the same "my way or the highway" act with Obama. In fact, Obama was so pissed he didn't even tell Mattis first. He found out on the way to a meeting.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (gI6+S)

350 Every cent that goes into Afghanistan is a cent that doesn't go into a Navy that can reasonably oppose China.

If you've got a zero-sum defense budget you need to prepare for (well, really to deter) the next war, not continue defending boy-buggering warlords in a place we should have turned into glass in 2001.
Posted by: JEM at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (8erNz)

Yes. We are looking at 1930s Germany/Japan from china now and their desire for a new Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. A single significant naval battle with the cataclysmic loss of several supercarriers would come close to matching all of the casualties in the Middle East since 2001.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (jdGlx)

351 Actual people doing the actual fighting? Guess that leaves out Sean Davis.

Posted by: Worthinstone at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (0hspQ)

352 Why all the Syracuse hate??

Orange man bad!

Posted by: bonhomme at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (9qZ3S)

353 Eric Erickson is an effin douche.

Posted by: DCD in Indiana at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (q3ye+)

354 351 Actual people doing the actual fighting?? Like Sean M Davis, Finance major??
Posted by: Truffalo at December 21, 2018 02:41 PM (kChSc)
--------------

No, personally, I'd rather hear from that great war hero and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Obama.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:42 PM (qC1Sy)

355 Don't give me that bullshit the military has a singular perspective on this. They don't. That the reason the president pulled out.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (gI6+S)

---------

Sure but what do the shiny new trannies think?

Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (0BFUD)

356 Obozo losing wars good.
Trump winning wars bad.
Forever wars with no goal or end game, the best!

Posted by: Regular joe at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (7PllL)

357 I'm sure it's been said but since the MSM has never bothered to report on what the fuyck we're doing in syria and what we've done (yuuuge successes, winnig) then why the rending of garments about leaving.

Posted by: billionaires! At the bottom of it all! at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (7J5t2)

358
Yeah I'd rather hear from the actual people doing the actual fighting rather than some dude on the internet who hates Trump. And that does not mean the brass at the Pentagon. Their primary goal is personal advancement and making friends with military suppliers for no-work jobs and kickbacks.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:39 PM (39g3+)

Quick Moron Poll...

Served? Yes or no
Pull out of Syria? Yes or no...

Served
Pull out.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (NgKpN)

359
Posted by: Truffalo

All those fat, sweet government contracts.

Too bad, so sad, NOVA.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (LL1Be)

360 My biggest concern with our withdrawal from Syria which is really only a logistic/support mission is that we are abandoning the Kurds to the Fuckin Turks who I hate. Israel can take care of itself, the Kurds not so much

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (yWXpx)

361 And not necessarily in that order.
Posted by: fixerupper at December 21, 2018 02:32 PM (8XRCm)

White knight falls on sword for naught.

Posted by: Frank a Phone at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (fWdPl)

362 >>>Every cent that goes into Afghanistan is a cent that doesn't go into a Navy that can reasonably oppose China.

If you've got a zero-sum defense budget you need to prepare for (well, really to deter) the next war, not continue defending boy-buggering warlords in a place we should have turned into glass in 2001.
Posted by: JEM at December 21, 2018 02:35 PM (8erNz)
_______________

If thats support for a War with China I'm all ears!!!

We must liberate our fellow man from the evil ~~capitalists~~ I mean uhhh undemocraticy people. For Revolution is the only way to unite the ~~proletariat workers~~ uhhhh I mean people agianst their opressors!

Viva la revolution! GLORY TO THE ~~BOLSHEVIK~~ I MEAN "DEMOCRATIC" WORLD REVOLUTION!!!

Posted by: Bill Kristol, Max Boot, & Trotsky's Ghost at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (aqpW6)

363 I think sending our soldiers off to endlessly die to make the ruling class Europeans feel comfortable is wonderful.

If dying for corporations was good, dying for the global elite is even better!

There's so much at stake for us in Syria! How can we even think of withdrawing! I mean, there's the, uh, what's left of all those old ruins that we need to protect. And then there's our friends the Muslim's who don't like us who are fighting the Muslim's who hate us!

And we're there working on regime change because our master plan in Libya worked really well, and we need to make it happen in Syria too. That way the terrorists will be confused about which base to operate out of once the quasi legitimate regime, that frightens our college kids, is gone, replaced by anarchy, which makes our college kids feel okay.

I love Syria.

Posted by: DamnedYankee at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (37IEG)

364 We've been in Iraq for 15 years. If they can't fight for themselves at this point, it is worthless. The concept that it takes decades to train a competent military force only says you will never train a competent military force.
-------------------
We've been in and out in Iraq over 15 years. It was Obama who decided to cut and run leaving Iraq with no real defense force. He then armed ISIS to fight Assad, but they decided to take north Iraq. They almost took Baghdad. Then we were forced to re-enter Iraq. Trump merely killed as many ISIS fighters as he could find in two years and we and our allies cleansed Raqqa and Mosul of Obama's pests. Now we recognize Assad and continue to help Iraq grow into the role of a modern army/air force.

PS - Remember the Dem Narrative was Iraq was the Bad War and Afghanistan the Good War. Dems are total fucktards.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (2LelM)

365 Served.

Big-bye.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (gI6+S)

366 Sure but what do the shiny new trannies think?
Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (0BFUD)
---
And how do we get them as fire-fighters?

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (YOhRS)

367 Don't give me that bullshit the military has a singular perspective on this. They don't. That the reason the president pulled out.

Which is his job, as commander in chief. I mean... that's how it works, the military isn't a democracy, you don't hold vote to see how to move forward.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (39g3+)

368 Except for some history, how is this in France's interest at all?
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:40 PM (NgKpN)

It's vital to humiliating the French state and having Macron Antoinette guillotined by the yellow jackets. Needless to say, I hope Putin takes the opportunity to dunk hard on France after the withdrawal.

Posted by: trev006 at December 21, 2018 02:45 PM (yBq7A)

369 343 Reading the ONT were I left off this morning and see comments lots of cars burnt in Baltimore, did the mayor or governor put a carbon tax on gasoline overnight?
Posted by: Skip at December 21, 2018 02:23 PM (/rm4P)

It's just the standard Kwanzaa celebration.
Posted by: Anonymous White Male

They take parking enforcement very seriously in Baltimore.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 21, 2018 02:45 PM (3LCk9)

370 Real fuckin' good job you're doing looking independent, trollbois. All with the same line of attack on Sean Davis - ad hominem - and nothing else. Almost like that's the script.

Posted by: Sporkatus at December 21, 2018 02:45 PM (HtLSE)

371 Apparently, even a low-grade twit like BSG can figure out a proxy.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 21, 2018 02:45 PM (oVJmc)

372 Trump should declare Open, Immediate Immigration and Accelerated Citizenship Processing for All Kurds and start a 24/7/365 airlift to fly them straight to DC.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (FzjAl)

No.

Posted by: WOPR at December 21, 2018 02:46 PM (J70i0)

373 Served
Pull out.
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (NgKpN)
_____________

Never served.

Kids either are or did.

Pull out.

Posted by: Blake - tis the season for grinching at December 21, 2018 02:46 PM (qC1Sy)

374 We've been in and out in Iraq over 15 years. It was Obama who decided to cut and run leaving Iraq with no real defense force. He then armed ISIS to fight Assad, but they decided to take north Iraq. They almost took Baghdad. Then we were forced to re-enter Iraq.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (2LelM)
---
Yes, it's a good idea to remind hysterical people what actual stepping-on-your-dick failure looks like.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:46 PM (YOhRS)

375 If posters only commented on subjects they got their degrees in there would be a lot less commenting. Does shuffle off to Truffalo only comment on subjects related to what his degree is in?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:46 PM (AllCR)

376 My biggest concern with our withdrawal from Syria which is really only a logistic/support mission is that we are abandoning the Kurds to the Fuckin Turks who I hate. Israel can take care of itself, the Kurds not so much
Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (yWXpx)

But that's the problem, isn't it? WTF are we going to do about the Turks? Not sell them F35s for starters, but beyond that there is no elegant solution in sight short of a palace coup with a positive (vs fundamentalist) outcome.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:47 PM (jdGlx)

377 Cynical of me, I know, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that the current hair-on-fire freakout by fans of foreign adventures is related to their desire to keep the money flowing, not just directly in the form of arms and ammunition but also to the extensive national security apparatus that has been built up post-9/11. It's hard to justify those expenditures if there is not an ongoing and never-ending conflict in the Moslem world. Definitely more difficult to justify domestic electronic eavesdropping.

I've never bought into the arguments from leftists and Ron Paul fans that we create the terrorists and invite them to attack us by conducting operations in "their" part of the world. I don't believe that. Moslems will want to kill non-Moslems in the name of Allah until there are no more Moslems or there are no more non-Moslems. I think many people have learned this by observation. But it's also clear that after 9/11 we created a vast industry worth trillions of dollars and devolving an incredible amount of power into the hands of government and its clients, and they intend to defend it.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:47 PM (oNFAg)

378 Which is his job, as commander in chief. I mean...
that's how it works, the military isn't a democracy, you don't hold vote
to see how to move forward.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (39g3+)
We will in the new Army! And Thursdays we won't have any fighting, and everyone will have a 'safe space' they can go to in the event of anything that triggers them.

Posted by: Texas SJW at December 21, 2018 02:47 PM (37IEG)

379 Served

Pull out.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:43 PM (NgKpN)
Same here.
The guys still in uniform that I work with, both officer and enlisted, are of the same opinion: if they are going to go somewhere, let them do the job with clear goals and once those goals are accomplished, get the F out. No mission creep, no "nation building". Kill people and break things until the other side quits, then come home.

Posted by: Bert G at December 21, 2018 02:47 PM (tOP4K)

380 If posters only commented on subjects they got their degrees in there would be a lot less commenting. Does shuffle off to Truffalo only comment on subjects related to what his degree is in?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at December 21, 2018 02:46 PM (AllCR)
---
That is not a well-formed function.

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:48 PM (YOhRS)

381 Does a GED allow for unrestricted commenting?

Posted by: Undocumented at December 21, 2018 02:48 PM (0BFUD)

382 Truly egregious to desire that troops be put in harms way if only to oppose an elected official.

Fuck em all. Can't wait till the day of the rope.

You're first, Erik.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at December 21, 2018 02:48 PM (RQEuo)

383 I understand the impulse and reasoning behind going into Iraq to save Kuwait and preserve the flow of oil (no need now with fraking in the US) and I understand the impulse to do something after 9-11 (Afghanistan and a return to Iraq). We have failed in all of this by not winning. We never lost but we failed to win. If we won't win a war why even start in the first place. Stop fighting wars that we won't win. simple.

Posted by: USNtakim profoundly deplorable. at December 21, 2018 02:48 PM (0OmEj)

384 But that's the problem, isn't it? WTF are we going to do about the Turks? Not sell them F35s for starters, but beyond that there is no elegant solution in sight short of a palace coup with a positive (vs fundamentalist) outcome.
Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:47 PM (jdGlx)

Are you kidding??? We WANT them to buy the F-35.

Reason? WE can't even maintain the damn things, Turkish ones will be hanger queens.

It would destroy their Air Power.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (NgKpN)

385 Syria is the least of our engagements. Syria was more of a political role than a military role and I hate giving into the fuckin Turks who are NOT our friends and never will be. THAT is what concerns me the most. And also ceding much of the area to the russians and iranians also.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (yWXpx)

386 NOODS!!!!

Posted by: Sponge at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (Zz0t1)

387 Their won't be any vacuum in Syria for IS to fill like they did in Iraq. The Syrian government, Russians and SDF all hate those fuckers.

Posted by: Marcus T at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (gI6+S)

388 I really should go back in time and light my hair on fire over Trump backing down over the border wall.

Maybe Ace can lend me his time machine....

Posted by: Axeman at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (YOhRS)

389 We've been in and out in Iraq over 15 years. It was Obama who decided to cut and run leaving Iraq with no real defense force. He then armed ISIS to fight Assad, but they decided to take north Iraq. They almost took Baghdad. Then we were forced to re-enter Iraq. Trump merely killed as many ISIS fighters as he could find in two years and we and our allies cleansed Raqqa and Mosul of Obama's pests. Now we recognize Assad and continue to help Iraq grow into the role of a modern army/air force.

PS - Remember the Dem Narrative was Iraq was the Bad War and Afghanistan the Good War. Dems are total fucktards.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (2LelM)

Iraq had no defense force because they replaced their proper US trained Sunni military with Shia mucky mucks.

I agree Iraq was the war with actual progress but the post war government set up was bungled.

In Afghanistan nothing much has changed whereas Iraq is actually starting to become a functioning state.

Posted by: Someguy at December 21, 2018 02:50 PM (h5Df3)

390 The boss is talking about something new upstairs.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 21, 2018 02:50 PM (fuK7c)

391 100 years when we are all dead, muslims will still be fighting each other in Iraq, Syria and Iran. What we (Americans) do or don't do is irrelevant.

Posted by: Lurking Lurker at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (nmg4g)

392 I joined the circus when I was 5, and became a prostitute at 18. I can comment on anything politics related.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (jdGlx)

393 But it's also clear that after 9/11 we created a vast industry worth trillions of dollars and devolving an incredible amount of power into the hands of government and its clients, and they intend to defend it.

It might also be observed that because "democratizing" is the single greatest good to some of these people, they fall into CS Lewis' axiom of tyranny exercised without end, because it is done with the approval of conscience. Second only to the people being "improved" to be knocked down are any and all who would interfere with the "improvement".

Posted by: Sporkatus at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (HtLSE)

394 If posters only commented on subjects they got their degrees in there would be a lot less commenting

I don't think his point was commenters. It was who cares what Sean Davis thinks about Syria? I'd rather read an opinion from someone who knew about the subject, not some Econ nerd.

Posted by: Worthinstone at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (0hspQ)

395 I could not find Syria on a map and dont understand all of the shifting allegiances and enemies.

--------

It's not super-complicated. Barky got us into this thing by drawing a red-line on Assad using chem weapons, so when he did it, he became our "enemy." But ISIS is Assad's enemey and also our enemy, because... ISIS.

Russia and Iran back Assad, making them our adversaries here, but they're also are enemies of ISIS, so that's uncomfortable.

In short: The Syrian government and ISIS are outright against us, Russia and Iran are uneasily cohabiting with us, the Kurds and various non-ISIS Islamic radical warlords are on "our" side.

Total cluster, IOW.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (AzW6q)

396 This whole "only comment if you have served" idea is pure horseshit.

If my taxes fund an endeavor, i get to bitch as much as i fucking want about it.

END.OF.FUCKING.STORY

(Also, we should get out of Syria. There is no end goal there.)

Posted by: mrshad at December 21, 2018 02:51 PM (kkNqO)

397 There used to be a rule at DoD that went like this: Never fight a war on the mainland of Asia. Maybe we should remember SW Asia is on the Mainland of Asia.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:52 PM (2LelM)

398 That second Max Boot headline is a fake, BTW. The April 19 one? That's a fake, apparently.

Don't get me wrong, I have no love for Max Boot, or respect for that matter. He's a bald blob in a fedora. But that headline is fake.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 02:52 PM (oNFAg)

399
Reason? WE can't even maintain the damn things, Turkish ones will be hanger queens.
It would destroy their Air Power.

Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (NgKpN)

The Turks have a very well established defense industry

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 02:52 PM (TAmPV)

400 Damn. Frank Oz is calling out Disney and the current writers for The Muppets.

http://tinyurl.com/ycf3qfj7

Posted by: bonhomme at December 21, 2018 02:52 PM (9qZ3S)

401 We've been in and out in Iraq over 15 years. It was Obama who decided to cut and run leaving Iraq with no real defense force. He then armed ISIS to fight Assad, but they decided to take north Iraq. They almost took Baghdad. Then we were forced to re-enter Iraq. Trump merely killed as many ISIS fighters as he could find in two years and we and our allies cleansed Raqqa and Mosul of Obama's pests. Now we recognize Assad and continue to help Iraq grow into the role of a modern army/air force.

PS - Remember the Dem Narrative was Iraq was the Bad War and Afghanistan the Good War. Dems are total fucktards.
Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:44 PM (2LelM)

Again, a bunch of slugs managed to beat the Iraqi army. An army we had been training for what, five plus years. They were beaten by a force with no air or armor. You can't create an army when no one wants to fight for what that army represents. Iraq is a fiction now.

Posted by: WOPR at December 21, 2018 02:54 PM (J70i0)

402 Are you kidding??? We WANT them to buy the F-35.

Reason? WE can't even maintain the damn things, Turkish ones will be hanger queens.

It would destroy their Air Power.
Posted by: Don Q at December 21, 2018 02:49 PM (NgKpN)

I know... But they will ship the first one in a container ship to Russian or China or Iran or whomever before it gets 10 hours on the airframe. Not that the Chinese haven't stolen all they need to know by now.

Posted by: Keith at December 21, 2018 02:54 PM (jdGlx)

403 In Afghanistan nothing much has changed whereas Iraq is actually starting to become a functioning state.
------------------------------
Baghdad looks like Tokyo today. Iraq has a credible defense force that includes mastery of the skies. We are doing what we were prevented to do by Obama's bug out, help Iraq restore self determination. It would have cost us all of two Brigades instead of the shit show that Obama's withdrawal caused.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:56 PM (2LelM)

404 348 - Don Q

If I had to guess... Lebanon. Beirut was once called "Paris on the Med" (at least it was until the 'Palestinians' turned it into a war zone). As to the French, I'll just say they're consistent about interacting with their former colonies. And, we *don't* know all of the story... except for the fact that Iran has taken over the wheel of the Holy Jihad bus. The French Intel services may know something the Average Joe / Jacques doesn't.

And, the French civilian govt is one thing, the French military is another. If I had to lay down a bet, France is in the top three of "lets have a military coup". Don't think Macron doesn't know that.

That why the French Army was ordered to stay in their barracks during the height of the Yellow Vest mess.

(...another fun fact not discussed in the MSM)

Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 02:57 PM (W+kMI)

405 This cognitive dissonance is everywhere in leftist think. Same thing with Comey. First he was Satan himself then when fired democratics say he is Saint Jimmy.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at December 21, 2018 02:57 PM (pw+jk)

406 Again, a bunch of slugs managed to beat the Iraqi army. An army we had been training for what, five plus years. They were beaten by a force with no air or armor. You can't create an army when no one wants to fight for what that army represents. Iraq is a fiction now.
----------------------
We crushed Saddam's Army and starting building another without using Baathists. It was a feeble force when we departed.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:58 PM (2LelM)

407 >>>305 Trump should declare Open, Immediate Immigration and Accelerated Citizenship Processing for All Kurds and start a 24/7/365 airlift to fly them straight to DC.

Make the DemonRats and NeverTrumpers put their fucking money where their their dick-shaped mouths are.
Posted by: Sharkman at December 21, 2018 02:34 PM (FzjAl)
______

I understand your concern, and no one wants an entire nation to be slaughtered. But bringing them over here en-mass is a horrible idea.

Kurds, like themselves and like their way of life. Thats why they fight do the death for their own land for their own Islamic State of Kurdistan.

There is no Magic Dirt here in America that will suddenly make them hate their own culture and customs and abandon their long and rich history. They fought and died over many generations for it.

Are they going to suddenly start pretending to be Americans by eating pulled pork sandwiches, learning about Trans-Women and Sodomy in Kindergarten, and listening to the signing prostitute Ariana Grande belt out another tune and fvcking so hard she walks sideways?

The Kurdish nation deserves it's own Country and State. Not to be diluted into the unrecognizable American Tower of Babel

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at December 21, 2018 02:58 PM (aqpW6)

408 It is a sad indictment of our media and political classes that all this furor is over the Syrians and not dead Americans due to a lax border, something we can't defend lest we offend people's sensibilities.
None of these chucklefucks seem to understand this most basic concept. Trump does. They truly think that we stick with him over the cult of personality (something they desperately crave themselves) instead of us liking him because he doesn't treat our blood and treasure like a piggy bank. It's not complicated.

I don't like Washington abandoning the Kurds but we have no choice because Washington has abandoned us. That matters more.

Posted by: TheBriBear at December 21, 2018 02:59 PM (u7zj+)

409 The way to defeat Syria is to pump fetnayl into it at rock bottom prices.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 03:01 PM (2LelM)

410 "Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg underwent a pulmonary lobectomy today at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City. Two nodules in the lower lobe of her left lung were discovered incidentally during tests performed at George Washington University Hospital to diagnose and treat rib fractures sustained in a fall on November 7. According to the thoracic surgeon, Valerie W. Rusch, MD, FACS, both nodules removed during surgery were found to be malignant on initial pathology evaluation. Post-surgery, there was no evidence of any remaining disease. Scans performed before surgery indicated no evidence of disease elsewhere in the body. Currently, no further treatment is planned. Justice Ginsburg is resting comfortably and is expected to remain in the hospital for a few days. Updates will be provided as they become available." response It is important to note that this assessment was given by officers of the Court, not the actual physician performing the procedures or managing her care.

More info has also come out as to the exact procedure that was performed. They did not take out the nodes, they did an entire lobectomy. That is not a minor surgery. She is thin and likely would have had a less invasive procedure than a full thoracotomy but it would still be a significant surgery particularly given her age and prior health concerns.

Another concern that I didn't voice earlier was the lymphdenopathy on her right neck (the large lump seen on numerous pics of Ginsburg).

The only real reason to elect to do surgery at her age is either palliative or to develop an autologous vaccine type therapy specific for the cancer.

I can of course be completely wrong, but the assertion of the court that she is free and clear seems to be premature.

Posted by: Max BOOThole at December 21, 2018 03:01 PM (BqBId)

411 If you know any federal employees, let them know that you're sorry that their favored party, the Democrats, loves Mexicans more than it likes federal government employees.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 03:04 PM (oNFAg)

412 Flawless Male Logic / Don Q -

Let's just say that the same folks who want never-ending foreign adventures**, and hate Trump with every fiber of their being, *want* to sell F-35s to the Turks.

(And there *is* the slight matter of signed agreements...)

(**and also fatten their off-shore accounts with Mil-Complex cash, either directly or indirectly)

Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 03:04 PM (W+kMI)

413 Ok, why the fuck are we announcing the drawdown in Afghanistan BEFORE negotiations? This is terrible strategy! I'm thinking Trump is not as good at deals as he thinks.

Posted by: Lucky Sevens at December 21, 2018 03:07 PM (t62Z0)

414 408 - TheBriBear

The Kurds have been getting support from the Kingdom (and the quiet ally, Israel) and the GCC for a while now.

The Kurds are NOT being cut loose, the just a matter of alternative pipelines.

Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 21, 2018 03:08 PM (W+kMI)

415 413 Ok, why the fuck are we announcing the drawdown in Afghanistan BEFORE negotiations? This is terrible strategy! I'm thinking Trump is not as good at deals as he thinks.
--------------------
Because the negotiations are over after we leave.

Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 03:11 PM (2LelM)

416 Sounds like the country is filled with backseat generals. This hardly rises to the level of Obama abandoning Iraq, or giving Billions of Cash to Iran etc.

Posted by: Locke Common at December 21, 2018 03:14 PM (OUhyT)

417 The only real reason to elect to do surgery at her age is either palliative or to develop an autologous vaccine type therapy specific for the cancer.

I think its mostly desperation to keep her alive until Trump is not in office any longer.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at December 21, 2018 03:14 PM (39g3+)

418 BTW, speculation about Mattis resigning started this past October 14th and wasn't Mattis resigning in a huff less than 24 hours after Trump made his Tweet. There was a Tweet link about it at Insty's ONT and in one of the Syria threads there.

BTW, the NTs, leftists and Neocons on Twitter are demanding Trump resign for the "Green Acres" Tweet when the world is coming to an end. How dare he!!!

Posted by: andycanuck at December 21, 2018 03:16 PM (Evws/)

419
Ok, why the fuck are we announcing the drawdown in Afghanistan BEFORE negotiations? This is terrible strategy! I'm thinking Trump is not as good at deals as he thinks.

It seems the majority of the casualties we've sustain in Afghanistan over the last few years have been at the hands of the government security forces that you want us to negotiate with.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at December 21, 2018 03:19 PM (TAmPV)

420 This is a non winnable argument. It's an absurdum argument, going from he's bad to do it, and he's equally bad for not getting out. It's circular firing squad stuff. It's untenable and pointless. Let the desert dwellers fight amongst themselves. We no longer even need to be pretend friends with these backward ass, barbaric inbred cultures. Stick with Israel and let the rest go back to camel molestation and squabbles over palm groves and goats. Their region, like their religion, is violent, vindictive and murderous because they are violent, vindictive and murderous. They and their backward ass ethos are tied to those miserable sand pits like Gaza and Syria.

No more American blood or money should be spilled to try to influence these violent, vindictive, murderous goat molesters.

Posted by: Sandman is an ahole at December 21, 2018 03:24 PM (L7t0A)

421 The Israelis are on-board with it too. I linked a report about it yesterday.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 21, 2018 03:25 PM (Evws/)

422 "One. Two, Three, Four, We Don't Want Your Endless War...Hey, wait--come back here!"

Scientists are making great progress with your Schizo meds.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at December 21, 2018 03:34 PM (Ndje9)

423 The great one mark levin is for americans fighting and dying in syria. Does anyone know which branch of the service he was in during the vietnam war?

Posted by: ramondo at December 21, 2018 03:34 PM (31Ndd)

424 @419 Ok, why the fuck are we announcing the drawdown in Afghanistan BEFORE negotiations? This is terrible strategy! I'm thinking Trump is not as good at deals as he thinks.

Frankly, I think we should sneak out in the middle of the night and be done with it.

Seriously, how is anyone supposed to "negotiate" with those people? Pulling one over on the Infidels is their favorite thing in the whole world? I'm not old enough to remember it specifically, but we also "negotiated" with the North Vietnamese who swore they weren't going to roll tanks into Saigon until of course they rolled tanks into Saigon. I can't think of anything more useless than sitting down to "negotiate" something with the Taliban or any other bunch of people over there.

Posted by: Brewdog at December 21, 2018 03:38 PM (oNFAg)

425 Iraq has a credible defense force that includes mastery of the skies. We are doing what we were prevented to do by Obama's bug out, help Iraq restore self determination. It would have cost us all of two Brigades instead of the shit show that Obama's withdrawal caused.
Posted by: Puddin Head at December 21, 2018 02:56 PM (2LelM)

But it's Shia and thus an ally of Iran. We're allied with the Sunni. It's a lost state to us, but hey you want to count that as a win then more power to you.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 21, 2018 05:12 PM (50gG9)

426

If we pull out of Incirlik and Izmir, along with the Syria pullout, then something drastic is going down.

I would watch this closely.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 21, 2018 05:29 PM (S/hVx)

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