Mollie Hemingway: Diehard Conspiracy Theorists In Media and NeverTrump Can't Figure Out if Tillerson Was a Lapdog of Putin or a Dogged Opponent

As I keep saying, it's about time we demand the Conspiracy Theorists begin telling us specifically what they believe and what they don't.

As this guy commented:

One way to tell something is a conspiracy theory is that most people are too embarrassed to tell you WHAT THE THEORY ACTUALLY IS. They're always just sort of dancing around the margins of it, randomly connecting dots, never giving you the full narrative. https://t.co/EtA2gtNduh
— Robert Wargas (@RobertWargas) March 13, 2018

Last night on Special Report, Jonah Goldberg insisted that the House Intelligence Committee report that there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump actually vindicated the "Washington Consensus," which he claimed only believed that Russia had interfered with the election, but did not believe anything about collusion.

Are you kidding me? Look through Mollie Hemingway's tweets from the Conspiracy Theorists -- all in the media, or formerly in the media, like Twitter activist Bill Kristol -- and try selling me on this jackass notion that the "Washington Consensus" has not been pushing the "Trump's a traitor and Manchurian Candidate in cahoots with Putin" line for sixteen long hysterical months.

But Jonah Goldberg did rise up vociferously to claim the "Washington Consensus," which must no doubt include his buddies at CNN who push this literally all day long, never really believed there was any "collusion," just interference on Russia's part but without any collusion with Trump.

It's insane. It's literally insane.

Does he literally never watch CNN? That would shock me -- I have a feeling he watches CNN a lot, in between watching MSNBC.

Mollie Hemingway comments:

Just last night I was told on national television that the general consensus in D.C. is that Russia is bad but that Trump and Russia didn't collude. That a treasonous collusion narrative isn’t even "remotely" the general consensus. Someone might want to tell... everyone in the media who has been pushing it non-stop for more than a year no matter the facts on the ground.

As the media reaction to Tillerson's nomination and firing show, we're witnessing the Unified Theory Of Russia Collusion at work. If it's true that the "general consensus" in D.C. is nothing remotely near the idea that Trump and Russia colluded to steal the 2016 election, people should stop pushing the theory. Better yet, if they buy into the theory -- as so many of our supposed media elites obviously do -- they should start to be more specific about the theory. And if they don’t, they should not nibble around the margins of the theory.

Hear, hear. Less "Just Asking Questions" about whether fire can really melt steel, and more straightforward declarative assertions about what Trump either did do or did not do.

There is a game in politics. The Truthers played this game; some politicians hoping to curry favors with the Truthers played it. Like John Kerry.

The game goes like this: While not explicitly endorsing a conspiracy theory for which there is no evidence, you sort of talk it up to maintain its viability as a political attack point. You don't say definitively you believe it -- you just say, as Patterico says today, it raises "interesting" questions.

You keep your "Clean Skin" as far as being a Conspiracy Theorist, and yet you do all you can to suggest to the conspiracy-minded that the conspiracy is All Too Real.

It's a way to speak as Yasser Arafat did, to two different audiences telling two different stories. You encourage conspiracy theorizing, while (mostly) not committing yourself to any particular version of the conspiracy theory.

Just Askin' Questions, you know.

It's one thing for politicians to do this -- they lie.

But pundits and analysts and "thinkers" and "experts" are supposed to tell you exactly what they think.

If Jonah Goldberg, for lo these many months (sixteen or thereabouts) has known that the "Washington Consensus" was actually that there was no collusion between Trump and Russia, why did he keep that on the Q.T. and the D.L.?

Why didn't he tell people?

Why did he enable a conspiracy theory he's now telling us that those In-the-Know always knew was pretty much bullshit?

It's the equivalent of a guy who never quite declares that "Bush knew" that the 9/11 attack was coming but let it happen anyway to enable the PNAC warplan but who is careful never to pour cold water on such conspiracy theories to keep #TheResistance agitated and animated.

You are paid, supposedly, for the truth, and what you know, and what you don't quite know but think to a reasonable certainty.

If Jonah Goldberg is claiming that there is no, and was no, "Washington Consensus" about the Manchurian Apprentice conspiracy theory, why has he been so shy about saying so?

And why is he not throwing cold water on the various members of the Washington Consensus -- such as Patterico, Erick Erickson, Bill Kristol, and of course various and sundry members of the legacy media -- currently spinning out new conspiracy theories about Tillerson's long-expected firing?

If you don't believe in the Conspiracy Theory, then say so firmly.

And if you do believe in it -- then say that too. Do not hide your beliefs with equivocation, evasion, and insinuation.

Where's Jonah on this? Will he ever say? Will he just talk around it without doing his basic job -- You Had One Job, you know -- of telling his readers what he really thinks?

Those pushing this theory should stop being cowards and dishonest hacks and tell us what they believe the quid was in this collusion, what was the quo, and how it was all agreed to.

And, as bonus: They should clue us in as to whether US troops killing Russian troops in Syria was done on Putin's orders.

And as another bonus: Given that the House Intelligence Committee is set to announce no evidence of any collusion -- are they now part of the conspiracy?

Or are they, the people with first-hand knowledge of witness statements and reams of classified reports the average blogger or Twitter blowhard does not possess, somehow less informed by the Washington Consensus Elites?

Details -- as Robert Wargas pointed out, it's very useful to a conspiracy theorist to get very vague about how the conspiracy was supposed to work, so that it can be changed up as needed to comport with emerging facts.

But these people are claiming to not be conspiracy theorists -- indeed, they claim to be the only sane people in the room, the only people with vision unclouded who can see through Putin's smokescreen and peer into the heart of the greatest Soviet conspiracy against the US since they recruited Eisenhower as a KGB asset.

If the Washington Consensus Elites have this the power to see through this maskarova and dezinformazinya , which most of us commoners are too stupid and blinded by tribal fury to see -- please, please Washington Consensus Elites, please do begin sharing with us the things you see which we cannot.

Why do you hoard your insights?

As you know these things so firmly and see them so clearly, why do you resort to hinting and insinuation? Why not unveil the Truths you have perceived so clearly to we, the blind mob, which so desperately needs to see the world through your keen gaze?

If you really believe, as the John Birch Society did, that Russian agents have recruited the sitting president of the United States as an agent, then that is obviously the biggest story in US history (except for the last time, of course) -- why are you so skittish and cowardly about announcing The Awful Truth to the world?

And if you don't believe this nonsense, if you're just feeding conspiracy crumbs to keep the #NeverTrump #Resistance agitated and frothy, if you're just maintaining a conspiracy theory you know is likely a total lie for reasons of political positioning and base-stoking -- you should be ashamed of yourselves.

And God Damn you if you ever strike a superior attitude about someone else's conspiracy theories again.

Pro-Tip: A conspiracy theory does not cease to be a conspiracy theory just because people who consider themselves smart and well-educated believe in it.

A lot of college professors pushed the 9/11 Conspiracy, and Madeleine Albright confided to Mort Kondracke that she believed that Bush had captured Osama bin Ladin near the start of the War of Afghanistan, but was holding him secretly until he could be presented to the public just before the elections of 2004.

People who consider themselves smart and well-educated are responsible for a lot of the world's conspiracy theories.

Pro-Tip II: Many of those who consider themselves smart and well-educated are, plot twist, not in fact smart and well-educated.

The great bulk of them, in fact.

Pro-Tip III: Those who have expressed skepticism about this conspiracy theory have been pilloried -- pilloried by the NeverTrump Smart Set Circle Jerk for a long time.

Jonah Goldberg certainly saw the attacks on Mollie Hemingway.

Why did he never say, "Wait a minute, the Washington Consensus is not agreed that there is any 'there' there, so her opinion, while it could be wrong, is perfectly respectable at this point in time, with this current state of the evidence?"

Seems very strange that the Washington Consensus has known there was no "collusion" for a while now and yet so few members of the Washington Consensus stepped forward to say that skepticism about this was a perfectly reasonable attitude to take.

Seems kind of like the very opposite to me-- if, like Lee Smith, you write an article and submit it to your editors at the Weekly Standard noting the shady operation known as FusionGPS and the lack of evidence for a "collusion" narrative, you get... fired by the Weekly Standard.

Or, at least, these two events coincided within a short period of time. One close upon the other.

Who knows why. Could all have been a big coincidence.

But if one were to take a sort of "these data points are linked" attitude that many of the conspiracy theorists do, then, based on Lee Smith's sudden firing from the Weekly Standard, that the Washington Consensus has been pretty set that Trump really did collude with Russia and anyone who says otherwise is crazy and unemployable by the Washington Consensus' outlets.

Posted by: Ace at 03:16 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Got nothing to add.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 13, 2018 03:18 PM (/0IRq)

2 It's the same damn thing with UFO's, don't ya know!?

Posted by: goon at March 13, 2018 03:18 PM (EaQ6/)

3 Now to read the content, before next con call.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at March 13, 2018 03:19 PM (/0IRq)

4 th?

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 13, 2018 03:19 PM (PUX+Y)

5 He's a wigwam! He's a teepee!
A floor wax and a dessert topping!

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (/yTms)

6 With Jonah Goldberg commenting on the pulse of the nation we should have nothing to worry about.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (2LelM)

7 I am actually loving it when President Trump throws a wrench into the works

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (aC6Sd)

8 Top ten!

Posted by: Surfperch at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (xPTqL)

9 Heh. Kirk Cousins to Vikings. Heh.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (2LelM)

10 Jonah, who wrote so clearly in 'Liberal Fascism' has become muddled.

He clearly wants to be in the kool kid klub.

But they won't have him. Heck Star Trek fans won't have him.

Embrace the suck, Jonah. Embrace being a Conservative instead of a cuck.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (xJa6I)

11 the general consensus in DC is that Trump is icky and the deplorables that elected him are, well, deplorable.

what do i win?

Posted by: redc1c4 at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (PUX+Y)

12 If I was 30 years younger and Mollie was 30 pounds lighter, I"d be on Mollie like a duck on a june bug.

Posted by: REDACTED at March 13, 2018 03:20 PM (VWsDy)

13 Heh, heh, heh. Now I wait...

Posted by: The Scorpion at March 13, 2018 03:21 PM (xJa6I)

14 TL;DR - Corgis called.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2018 03:21 PM (hrMmk)

15 Last

Posted by: REDACTED at March 13, 2018 03:21 PM (VWsDy)

16 Mollie kicked Jonah's pudgy ass yesterday on Special Report. I think I love her.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 13, 2018 03:21 PM (Dn4Uq)

17 Wargas is a great name.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (+lOpA)

18 But I still think there was more than one shooter in Dallas.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (xJa6I)

19 I used to like Jonah Goldberg.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (nBr1j)

20 What is this nonsense I am seeing about Trump fired Tillerson because he said Russia was behind the nerve gas attack in England and Trump is mad at him for calling out Putin?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (+Dllb)

21 The blind mob is just not ready for it. That's the problem. The blind mob is in love with being blind. They don't want change, why the hell would they, as any rational person would hate change and truth that shakes their world view. Awakening, being woke is hard business. Especially if you are on the losing side, communist bastards!

Posted by: goon at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (EaQ6/)

22 What the hell is Jonah talking about? The entire premise of the Mueller investigation was that he colluded with Russian to win the election and that whole narrative was started by Clapper leaking to Jake Tapper who along with the rest of his CNN mean girl club ran with this story for the last year.

Do these people think we are really dumber than they are?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (/tuJf)

23
Wait, if collusion is not the same as interfering with the election, then, pardon my French, what the fuck is Jonah Goldberg talking about?

That statement he made is Pelosi-esque in its clarity and concision.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (fTKv+)

24 it's mud. just keep throwing mud to discredit and undermine trump on everything. until the next election, then act like they didn't do anything.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (Pg+x7)

25 Isn't a bit of a stretch to list Patterico as a member of the Washington Consensus? But he's definitely gone off the deep end.

Posted by: LASue at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (Z48ZB)

26 Do these people think we are really dumber than they are?
Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (/tuJf)

Yes?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (xJa6I)

27 18 But I still think there was more than one shooter in Dallas.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (xJa6I)

Who cares, mission accomplished

Posted by: LBJ at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (VWsDy)

28 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven

Greatest bowling team name evah! Beer & pickled hardboiled eggs from the lunch counter = Wargas!

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (hrMmk)

29 I used to read NR and especially enjoy Jonah. I didn't leave them, they left me.

Posted by: ChuckD at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (/+zDD)

30 Global warming causes less snow.

Global warming causes more snow.

Global warming has caused the Washington Redskins to suck ever since Joe Gibbs left.

It's science.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (RD7QR)

31 17 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (+lOpA)

Wargasm is better...

Posted by: model_1066 at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (7j/fW)

32

Oh goodie. A thumbs up Mollie, thumbs down Jonah thread!

The best kind.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (fceHP)

33 I just heard Tillerson claim he was first notified this AM by PDT's twatter. It sounds like BS.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (r9UYA)

34 25 Isn't a bit of a stretch to list Patterico as a member of the Washington Consensus? But he's definitely gone off the deep end.
Posted by: LASue at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (Z48ZB)

50 Shades of LGF, Drudge, Kristol, Kevin Williamson, Patterico et al.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (fTKv+)

35 It's all gaslighting all the time now.

Posted by: rickl at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (xjiRE)

36 Tillerson was a Putin lapdog, but a year in to the administration people were realizing he was a Putin Lapdog, so Putin ordered his minion Trump to replace him with somebody who is not as much of a Putin lapdog so it appears that the administration has no RUSSIAN ties.

Posted by: The MSM, doing Mental Gymnastics at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (xPTqL)

37 So the question becomes... do some people never realize they WERE Gaslighted?

Even after reality is pointed out to them?

They are so worried about being guilty of helping the spread of the lies, that they will continue the lie?

Posted by: Don Q. at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (NgKpN)

38 I read Jonah for years, dropped it like a hot rock before the election

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (aC6Sd)

39 33 I just heard Tillerson claim he was first notified this AM by PDT's twatter. It sounds like BS.
Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:25 PM (r9UYA)

Yup.

He got caught agreeing with the EU to preserve the Iran sells-out. Now there's your collusion.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (fTKv+)

40 I just heard Tillerson claim he was first notified this AM by PDT's twatter. It sounds like BS.

White House says they notified him on Friday.

Posted by: Blanco Basura - It's OK, I'm with the banned at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (IZPn8)

41 Johan and CNN are lovers? Huh?

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (pzA2L)

42 >>28 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven

Greatest bowling team name evah! Beer & pickled hardboiled eggs from the lunch counter = Wargas!

Posted by: rickb223

Confirmed WMD status.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (r9UYA)

43 Chlamydia Thundershart

Copied from the end of the previous thread.

Poetry in action, people.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (7UW64)

44 Embrace the suck, Jonah. Embrace being a Conservative instead of a cuck.
----------------------
Jonah thinks America is an idea not a people. Odd for someone editing a magazine named National Review. I have pleaded with him many times to look up what nation actually means.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (2LelM)

45 I think you've nailed it, Ace, if your job is observation and commentary, give it, honestly. Done and done.
If wrong, say so. Move on to the next whatever.

Jonah has moved the goal posts too many times, his credibility is shot.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (U+nHb)

46 Patterico is another one

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (aC6Sd)

47 17 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (+lOpA)

I assume pronounced Vargas.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (fTKv+)

48
42 >>28 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven

Greatest bowling team name evah! Beer & pickled hardboiled eggs from the lunch counter = Wargas!

Posted by: rickb223

Confirmed WMD status.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (r9UYA)

I see you've met my husband.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (7UW64)

49 Can't you see that anyone that opposes Gina is just a bought-off puke! She is going to do great, if given a couple of minutes at the helm. But, hell-no, can't let that happen, 'cause I read it on the internet. okay.

Posted by: goon at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (EaQ6/)

50 50 Shades of LGF, Drudge, Kristol, Kevin Williamson, Patterico et al.

Well, I mean Patrick posts over at RedState which save for the token three-times-a-week streiff post is basically shrieking-to-the-heavens NeverTrump Breitbart.

Posted by: JEM at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (qFQBL)

51 They're just pissed hat Trump is so good going up and down stairs.

Posted by: wth at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (HgMAr)

52 Is Jonah a woman that identifies as a male?
Or the other way around?

just asking questions

Posted by: illiniwek at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (bT8Z4)

53 I wonder if Mollie was always this smart AKA wonder if I could have been in there when she was young

Posted by: REDACTED at March 13, 2018 03:28 PM (VWsDy)

54 >>>>>Wait, if collusion is not the same as interfering
with the election, then, pardon my French, what the fuck is Jonah
Goldberg talking about?

That statement he made is Pelosi-esque in its clarity and concision.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM
.
.
.From meuller's mandate signed by rosenstein:

(i) any links and or/coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;

Sounds like they were mandated to look for collusion to me. Not sure what everyone else is blabbing about now that the House cleared Trump.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 13, 2018 03:28 PM (+Dllb)

55 Nor cricket of you, old boy, to point out the media changes their story every day. You need to develop situational amnesia. Today, Tillerson is against Putin. It's always been that way, what?

Posted by: Effete Englishman at March 13, 2018 03:28 PM (2NqXo)

56 51 They're just pissed hat Trump is so good going up and down stairs.
Posted by: wth at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (HgMAr)

'cos privilege and stuff...

Posted by: model_1066 at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (7j/fW)

57 I don't care how Tillerson was notified, just go and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

He was pro Iran deal, that tells you all you need to know about Tillerson.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (U+nHb)

58 Jonah sold out to the West Manhattan Globalists long ago. The bright side is it pays well.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (2LelM)

59 Isn't a bit of a stretch to list Patterico as a member of the Washington Consensus? But he's definitely gone off the deep end.
Posted by: LASue

He took the Trump election every bit personally as the DC NeverTurnipers did.

Angry birds of a feather, and all that.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (KXVP7)

60 Who cares, mission accomplished
Posted by: LBJ at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (VWsDy)

There was a photo shop of LBJ with his fingers in his ears just before the first shot

Posted by: MAC SOG and nothing will happen at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (czkHE)

61 Heh, heh. I'm waiting for The Scorpion.

Posted by: Willard Romney at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (2Mnv1)

62 52 Is Jonah a woman that identifies as a male?
Or the other way around?

just asking questions
Posted by: illiniwek at March 13, 2018 03:27 PM (bT8Z4)

It's like being a kid who no one claims. It sucks

Posted by: REDACTED at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (VWsDy)

63 We know what this means. Full frontal Stormy Daniels!!!11!!/

Posted by: DanMan at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (XTiHL)

64
18 But I still think there was more than one shooter in Dallas.

Sure. As depicted in the well-known documentary series Red Dwarf.

Posted by: Anachronda at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (sGtp+)

65 >>If Jonah Goldberg is claiming that there is no, and was no, "Washington Consensus" about the Manchurian Apprentice conspiracy theory, why has he been so shy about saying so?

Because it damaged Trump, could be used to get him pushed out of office, which serves Goldberg's needs. You don't have the *believe* it to endorse its use.

In fact, I would bet he and his ilk think we flyover state deplorables - whom they constantly tell just don't understand how thinks work - were happy to find a simple narrative that even we rubes would understand: Trump + Russia = Impeachment. Doesn't have to be true, jus effective.

Posted by: Lizzy at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (W+vEI)

66 I still occasionally read his mother's site. No hint of kool-aid drinking and I have noticed it's not pimping Johan's articles and other output from him.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (pzA2L)

67 I don't care how Tillerson was notified, just go and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

He was pro Iran deal, that tells you all you need to know about Tillerson.

I'm guessing his departure is based more on how he managed or did not manage his shop than on any public pronouncements.

Posted by: JEM at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (qFQBL)

68 "Lapdog or Dogged Opponent!"

I howled!

Posted by: Cannibal Bob at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (70cRb)

69 "Why do you hoard your insights?

As you know these things so firmly and see them so clearly, why do you resort to hinting and insinuation? Why not unveil the Truths you have perceived so clearly to we, the blind mob, which so desperately needs to see the world through your keen gaze"

So those talking heads can keep getting paid.

Duh.

Posted by: scott_t at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (NmR1a)

70 If not for Hansen and Conrad there really is no reason to visit NR.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (2LelM)

71
Uh, so if this is the case, what is everyone pantingly waiting for? A process indictment?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (BWL+E)

72 Rex, rex, I sure hope that they paid you in euros. We would have let you be the new ambassador, if you would have just kept your big yap shut. Now, things are going to have to be handled differently. We'll have to get you a book deal.

Posted by: goon at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (EaQ6/)

73 >>>Where's Jonah on this? Will he ever say? Will he just talk around it without doing his basic job -- You Had One Job, you know -- of telling his readers what he really thinks?

Where's Jonah? On his knees or on his stomach taking Billy Kristol's neo-con dick.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (3Pma+)

74 There was a photo shop of LBJ with his fingers in his ears just before the first shot

Damned buttworms migrated north.

Posted by: Zombie LBJ at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (vtcmf)

75 "Hear, hear. Less "Just Asking Questions" about whether fire can really melt steel, and more straightforward declarative assertions about what Trump either did do or did not do."

We have to convict Trump of collusion before we can have a trial for the crime that he was colluding in. Everybody knows that!

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Protect Your Despair with Gloom Guard Polish & Sealer! Only at The Outrage Outlet! at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (hLRSq)

76 Having you on is what I'm "having" you!

Posted by: Publius Redux at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (Fb9aZ)

77 58 Jonah sold out to the West Manhattan Globalists long ago. The bright side is it pays well.
Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:29 PM (2LelM)

They taught him how to remove the knots from his gold chains

Posted by: REDACTED at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (VWsDy)

78 I haven't been to DC for many years, but I think what matters to Goldberg and to other people who depend on TV facetime for a comfortable living is to present an "open mind" POV so that it's easier for TV producers to choose them as the "concerned conservative". To baldly state from the beginning that there was no collusion removes the "mystery" of whether the CC will turn on Trump on live TV. The "will he or won't he?" is clicker bait and promotes the narrative that even "conservatives" doubt the president's motives.

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (Pqytn)

79 If everyone knows there was no collusion, then everyone who called for a special counsel needs to resign in shame, starting with Mueller.

Posted by: pep at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (wW03z)

80 Or maybe the entire function of the news media is not to inform, but to entertain or even distract. Dancing around conspiracy theories is just a form of cliff hanger to keep the audience involved.

Sure, it also keeps one's position at the bien pensant cocktail parties, I'm just not certain which comes first, does one do the fan dance because one wants to protect membership in the clique, or is one granted membership to the clique because one does the dance.

Either way, a whore's a whore.

Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Low Glycemic Souls at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (tMFgx)

81 66 I still occasionally read his mother's site. No hint of kool-aid drinking and I have noticed it's not pimping Johan's articles and other output from him.
Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (pzA2L)

His mother's site is just a better Drudge is all.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (3Pma+)

82 44 Embrace the suck, Jonah. Embrace being a Conservative instead of a cuck.
----------------------
Jonah thinks America is an idea not a people. Odd for someone editing a magazine named National Review. I have pleaded with him many times to look up what nation actually means.
Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (2LelM)

Well, there's some flex there.

In America, you can be English or Irish and still be an American. Not so much in England and Ireland. Or Polish or Greek or what have you.

We're a melting pot, but the ingredients do need to melt together.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (xJa6I)

83 "Wargas is a great name"

just another term for toxic masculinity

Posted by: DanMan at March 13, 2018 03:31 PM (XTiHL)

84 But I still think there was more than one shooter in Dallas.

Still waiting for the magic bullet theory & the pristine bullet.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (hrMmk)

85
Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven

Didn't he draw those nudes in Playboy?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (IqV8l)

86 When it gets down to it, it's all about the Benjamins.

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (Pqytn)

87 Could it be that Hillary stumbling and ejecting a shoe, yet again, is some sort of Bat Signal to nefarious forces that the time has come for them to strike? The last time she did this they put Trump in the White House.

I'm just asking questions.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (eqQL8)

88 I'd like trucon neverTrumpers just once cover DJT the way they would cover any other president--instead of always starting with "I hate, stupid head Donald Trump."

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (nBr1j)

89 I'm guessing his departure is based more on how he managed or did not manage his shop than on any public pronouncements.
Posted by: JEM at March 13, 2018 03:30 PM (qFQBL)

-----
I'm sure. And I don't think he was completely on board with the North Korean meeting. I was really addressing his character. No serious person could think the Iran deal was a good deal. It's insane.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (U+nHb)

90
"Wargas is a great name"

It beats Ethyl

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (lKyWE)

91 70 If not for Hansen and Conrad there really is no reason to visit NR.
________________________________

The guys in the balcony from the Muppet Show?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (ATVNj)

92 ... i actually turn on cnn on occasion and nearly every time they are discussing russian collusion and the meaning of the latest non-revelation. every single time. there is no other news in all the events happening in the world than russia/trump accordion g to cnn. and can anybody be surprised they are 25th in cable news?

it's remarkable. one story over and over and over.

mud.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (Pg+x7)

93 It's very similar to Climate Change...It gets colder they win, if it gets hotter they win.

The Mark of Bullshit.

Posted by: nip at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (ECLaL)

94 Why does Drudge still have that bull shit false story about the tweet still up. T Rex was fired Friday.

Posted by: George at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (FudYD)

95
Jonah Goldberg, the Lion of Goucher College: one more pundit who got ahead because Mommy/Daddy Knew Someone (see also: Kristol, W.; Buckley, C.).

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (BWL+E)

96 Treacherous McCain has raised one hand from the grave to chime in on the CIA pick.

"CIA pick is from one of the darkest chapters of American History."

Really Maverick?. One of the darkest? In American history?

Posted by: WisRich at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (G0vdT)

97 But I still think there was more than one shooter in Dallas.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (xJa6I)

Who cares, mission accomplished

Posted by: LBJ at March 13, 2018

Agreed.

Posted by: zombie ted cruz's father at March 13, 2018 03:34 PM (iys0/)

98 I'm telling you guys straight out, no way Hillary's were clean after that second "step." Probably joined a pound of deposits from the first "step."

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at March 13, 2018 03:34 PM (pw+jk)

99 Interesting question...

Does Jonah both suck dick and receive duck sucks?

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:34 PM (NPQuh)

100 I guess I am just simple but I am confused...thought they did not like the Tillerson pick because he was chummy with Putin. Now they are saying he was fired because he was too tough on Putin? Wut?

Posted by: IC at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (a0IVu)

101 What's next? CNN claiming that no one ever believed the Russians "hacked" the DNC's emails?

Posted by: LASue at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (Z48ZB)

102 96 McCain was super anti torture(even if it was only harsh interrogation)I mean in a deranged personal way because the Vietnamese tortured him.

Posted by: steevy at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (LiyEm)

103 I guess you could say it was a goof.

Posted by: Bill Kristol at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (2Mnv1)

104 >> "Why not unveil the Truths you have perceived so clearly to we, the blind mob?"--Ace

Problem with that strategy for them is that if they admit one Truth (vis a vis their belief all along in the "Russian"conspiracy") them their readers might start asking them about other Truths these "conservative" pundits have been withholding-- like the fact that they're not actually traditional conservatives. What exactly do they want to conserve? And the Truth about that question would probably have a chilling effect on ticket sales for future National Review Alaskan Cruise tours.

Posted by: Anonymous 7 at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (Wv9jW)

105 Does Jonah wear Crocs?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (nBr1j)

106 I saw Wargas open for The Flaming Poops at the Fabulous Forum in 93.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (pw+jk)

107 And to think I once used to think these cuckholes were important.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (NPQuh)

108 When will the tumor finish McCain?

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (2LelM)

109 105
Does Jonah wear Crocs?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (nBr1j)
He might be one of those secret cross dressers...

Posted by: IC at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (a0IVu)

110 I'd been a subscriber to National Review since college back in the 70's. Even have a letter from WFB to me. I ended my subscription when NR went against Trump during the election. Fuck Jonah and the rest of them (other than VDH and Andy McCarthey).

All that their sanctimonious conservative purity has gotten us is non-stop advances by the Left.

Trump fights, unlike them, and he has accomplished more than they ever have.

Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (UThOJ)

111

If you really believe, as the John Birch Society did, that Russian
agents have recruited the sitting president of the United States as an
agent, then that is obviously the biggest story in US history (except
for the last time, of course) -- why are you so skittish and cowardly
about announcing The Awful Truth to the world?
...

They are patiently waiting for a Sign.

Posted by: woody summer at March 13, 2018 03:36 PM (IkIB1)

112 , if you're just feeding conspiracy crumbs to keep the #NeverTrump #Resistance agitated and frothy,

Maybe they're just selling enough staterooms to keep the free for them cruise going? I'm just asking questions. Can fire from the Bananas Foster melt steel?

Posted by: DaveA at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (FhXTo)

113 Adam Shitt and the other Democrats on the "Intelligence Committee" are still pushing the collusion narrative. They were quoted in places like the WSJ today that the "report" was a Republican version and they are going to add their own (unsupported) information to it. That way they can continue to spout this crap forever. Because now, 'Republicans covered up the collusion!!"

Don't you hate it when the conspiracy kooks can't even get on the same narrative page?

Posted by: Marcus T at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (VpIIl)

114 >>96 Treacherous McCain has raised one hand from the grave to chime in on the CIA pick.

FOAD already. Nobody wants you around.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (r9UYA)

115 By Collusion we meant collusion between Putin and the KGB. What else did you rubes think we meant?

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (NPQuh)

116 Like the Pro Tip, Ace.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (U+nHb)

117 Did anyone else notice the brilliant wordsmithing ace did with dogged and lapdog?

You just don't get that kind of quality and 2nd tier blogs.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (/tuJf)

118 You could even say that the MFM chose Putin over the Truth.

Posted by: Joe, living mobile at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (mk7Bj)

119 Damn you if you ever whine about someone else's conspiracy theories again.

Word.

Posted by: Seth Rich at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (Ndje9)

120 Tillerson was a dogged lapdog.

Woof!

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (vP84t)

121 Seriously how the fuck did the guy that wrote 'Liberal Fascism' turn into this?

Posted by: Ryan Frank at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (EKxGt)

122 Adam Schiff's neck is too scrawny to allow blood to flow to the brain.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (nBr1j)

123 Eh, honestly I think Jonah Goldberg is merely a victim of confirmation bias. I don't believe he thinks Trump colluded with Russia. I do, however, think that he believes his opinion is "the Washington consensus". He may even be correct.

If so, the "Washington consensus" is definitely NOT what we're seeing broadcast into airport lounges and building lobbies around the nation. Sure, Bill Kristol or some other talking head may admit to Jonah that the Russian collusion story is horse pucky. In private. To Jonah. They may even believe it. But that is definitely not what they say on the air.

And I think Jonah forgets that.

Posted by: Semper Why at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (q8xNf)

124 Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at March 13, 2018 03:34 PM (pw+jk)

Felt sorry for the guy removing her sandals.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (pzA2L)

125 They hoped for President Hillary.

They'll settle for Russian Collusion.

They'll get a batshit crazy pornstar.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (MnkFD)

126 I want Washington Consensus experts to explain phlogiston theory. Like the Trump-Russia collusion theory, it was rejected prematurely.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (eqQL8)

127 Firing people by Tweet is for pikers. I use anti-aircraft guns.

Posted by: L'il Kim at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (Dn4Uq)

128 Does Jonah wear Crocs?

======

Pink ones and a Speedo.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (pw+jk)

129 As the media reaction to Tillerson's nomination and firing show, we're witnessing the Unified Theory Of Russia Collusion at work. If it's true that the "general consensus" in D.C. is nothing remotely near the idea that Trump and Russia colluded to steal the 2016 election, people should stop pushing the theory. Better yet, if they buy into the theory -- as so many of our supposed media elites obviously do -- they should start to be more specific about the theory. And if they don-t, they should not nibble around the margins of the theory.

They should also be shouting "Shut the witch hunt down!" because that is what the special counsel was all about?!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 03:38 PM (fceHP)

130 If we could only get McCain and Ruth Bader on the same plane and had a stinger. If only.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (2LelM)

131 McCain is a nasty sort. A real bitter, asshole.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (U+nHb)

132 One book by Mr. Goldberg entitled: _Donald Trump and Russian Collusion: This Sort of Thing is Definitely My Bag, Baby_

Posted by: goodluckduck at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (rwaEp)

133 McAsshole is still breathing?

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (NPQuh)

134 113 Adam Shitt and the other Democrats on the "Intelligence Committee" are still pushing the collusion narrative. They were quoted in places like the WSJ today that the "report" was a Republican version and they are going to add their own (unsupported) information to it. That way they can continue to spout this crap forever. Because now, 'Republicans covered up the collusion!!"

Don't you hate it when the conspiracy kooks can't even get on the same narrative page?
Posted by: Marcus T at March 13, 2018 03:37 PM (VpIIl)

Schiff-head has already said "We're reopening the investigation when we take back the house in November."

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (XMDuf)

135 "I'm not saying Michelle Obama is a transvestite, I'm just asking questions and pointing out interesting facts."
=
"I'm saying she's a dude."

Posted by: wooga at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (Z/rHa)

136 5 steps of lib grief:

denial
anger
bargaining
depression
goto: denial <----- rinse & repeat

Posted by: not the mama at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (mx7rN)

137 Collusion is so yesterday.

The new hotness among the cool kids and NeverTurnips is OBSTRUCTION.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (Dn4Uq)

138 Every day, Dan Bongino's podcast reveals yet another connection in the true Russian Collusion that occurred.

All Hillary.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (FypLm)

139 Washington Consensus has always been at war with Eastasia.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (eqQL8)

140 I never got conspiracy theories Sure in "theory" (a pun I guess) a given CT could be true, but people don't get absorbed by them BECAUSE they are true, they get absorbed in them because they are addicted to conspiracies. These CT's give meaning to some lives that don't make sense in the rational world. If you don't understand the rational, then head for the irrational.

I accidentally stumbled on a weird one on Youtube. I am sure many of you have heard someone mistakenly say there are 52 states before, and Obama said there are 57. But I think I get why many think their are 52. For starters, these people did not study much history, civics, or geography, that is a given, you start with that. So at some point they heard that two states were "added" later, as in they came late to the union. They had heard somewhere at the mall or someplace in passing that there were 50 US states. So then you take 50, add the two new ones, and you get 52 lol.

That is fine for what it is, not everyone is a rocket surgeon. But the really weird thing is there are people that believe they are the ones that are right and that back in the day everyone knew there were 52 states. Yet somewhere along the line schools changed it to 50 for some reason. It can't be that the CT theorist is just stupid, no that would be a real CT! Some even take it so far as to say there were 52 states "in another dimension", and now these scared CT theorists are in this new dimension of 50 states.

Like I said, this is weird crap, and I am not sure how I found this on youtube, but if you search it, and even worse, read the comments, well, I recommend you don't unless you want to despair even more for humanity. It amazes me people can't just learn things and realize they were ignorant on something. No, better to believe hocus pocus until that last dog dies.

Posted by: quint at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (n13/j)

141 I never said all those things I said!

Posted by: Louise Mensch at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (SkuXa)

142 Trump collusion Simpson's reference tee hee something something Star Trek reference treason.

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (4ErVI)

143 bargaining: a.k.a. batshit conspiracy theories

Posted by: not the mama at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (mx7rN)

144
Sorry about VDH, but I won't read him in NR. The company you keep, etc.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (BWL+E)

145 I'm guessing his departure is based more on how he managed or did not manage his shop than on any public pronouncements.
Posted by: JEM

When you don't follow your bosses' policies (Iran Treaty problems), when you don't follow clear, important directives (clean out the State Dept) and when you are rumored to have called your boss an idiot or a moron, then I think you can guess that you are going to be fired. Believe me, I have walked that same line. Lucky I have not been fired in the last year or so.

Tillerson was a very smart and able man, he was Chairman and CEO of Exxon, and they don't give that job to dummies.
How he came to be recommended to Trump as SoS is not immediately obvious. But what is obvious is that Pompeo is more in tune with Trump's policies and direction.
I think that Mattis had something to say about this also, but that would be a big assumption.

Nobody with Tillerson's ego likes to be fired. So expect some blah-blah on the Talking Head shows this weekend.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (vcOmj)

146 Everyone knows that the aliens in Area 51 really run the government. It's soooo obvious.

Posted by: tu3031 at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (O5Q3r)

147 88 I'd like trucon neverTrumpers just once cover DJT the way they would cover any other president--instead of always starting with "I hate, stupid head Donald Trump."
Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (nBr1j)

It makes Shapiro unlistenable.

Yes that is a word.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (+lOpA)

148 "And if you don't believe this nonsense, if you're just feeding conspiracy crumbs to keep the #NeverTrump #Resistance agitated and frothy, if you're just maintaining a conspiracy theory you know is likely a total lie for reasons of political positioning and base-stoking -- you should be ashamed of yourselves."

That's all there is to it. If the idea that there is some "collusion" hurts Trump, who are these filthy pro-prog lying virtue signaling asswipes to speak against it?

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (CAKgV)

149 I can't jump on this bandwagon to bash the 'just asking questions ' crowd as much as I want to because it's also a tactic used by another person that I am trying not to criticize for obvious tactical reasons.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (A4DFu)

150 In Jonah's defense, you have suck a lot cock to keep being re-invited to comment on Cable News Shows. Just ask Anderson Cooper how it works.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (2LelM)

151 Trump shitcanned Tillerson because Rex was trying to please Europe and Persia instead of his boss to save the putrid Iran Deal. This is some form of Rex going native at the State Dept. The Obama-ites who came up with the Iran Shit Show wanted to save it, as did Merkel and the boy wonder of France and that dumb cow May. http://freebeacon.com/national-security/tillerson-fired-rogue-bid-save-iran-nuke-deal/

Posted by: Lester at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (LfJIn)

152 Is the Washington Consensus the name of the team that always got their asses kicked by the Harlem Globetrotters?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (nBr1j)

153
Jonah has become a real douchebag. He, like Stephen Hayes just talk in circles, with nothing of interest to say anymore. It's embarrassing.

Beard combs in their pockets. They're pushing the Liberal Professor look.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (fceHP)

154 If you really believe, as the John Birch Society did, that Russian agents have recruited the sitting president of the United States as an agent

So it was the Birchers who had the time machine, and jetted forward to 2008?

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (vP84t)

155 100 I guess I am just simple but I am confused...thought they did not like the Tillerson pick because he was chummy with Putin. Now they are saying he was fired because he was too tough on Putin? Wut?
Posted by: IC at March 13, 2018 03:35 PM (a0IVu)

Now you've got it.

Posted by: rickl at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (xjiRE)

156 *types*

*realizes Ace unloaded on these putzes masterfully, 'nuff said*

*deletes*

Posted by: Hands at March 13, 2018 03:41 PM (EzdLW)

157 The Washington Consensus Party is decreasing the ration of Leftist shit the NeverTrump pundits must eat, from three grams to eleven pounds.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (eqQL8)

158 >>>I howled!

heh.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (8rNrN)

159 Schiff-head has already said "We're reopening the investigation when we take back the house in November."

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM (XMDuf)

This is precisely why I won't sit down at the same table if I know someone is a Democrat. They are NOT my countrymen. They are my enemy and are openly trying to steal my country from me.

Over my dead body.

Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (UThOJ)

160 Jonah's a twat.

Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (NWiLs)

161 He has to say the Washington Consensus was right. The Washington Consensus stirred up the mob, when it comes crashing down, they will have some 'splaining to do.

Posted by: quint at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (n13/j)

162 >>>>>McAsshole is still breathing?

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:39 PM
.
.
.Doubtful. Those statements are coming from his long time aides.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (+Dllb)

163 144
Sorry about VDH, but I won't read him in NR. The company you keep, etc.

I hear you on that, but I just watch VDH's vids on YouTube.

As far as the company he keeps, I have to make an exception because VDH is a national treasure. He really does need a better "home" though.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 13, 2018 03:42 PM (Dn4Uq)

164 sted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at March 13, 2018 03:40 PM (vcOmj)

-------

Well stated and I agree.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (U+nHb)

165 144
Sorry about VDH, but I won't read him in NR. The company you keep, etc.
--------------------
Meh, I love reading Hansen. My IQ goes up when I do that. Pretty sure they have tracking software that tells them which authors attracts readers and which don't. Pretty sure that software came free of charge when they took the Zuckerberg bucks.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (2LelM)

166 96 Treacherous McCain has raised one hand from the grave to chime in on the CIA pick.

"CIA pick is from one of the darkest chapters of American History."

Really Maverick?. One of the darkest? In American history?

Posted by: WisRich at March 13, 2018 03:33 PM (G0vdT)

Well, technically what McCain said was "Blargle snrfl bargasnrgle!" There was a bit of translating by his aides.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (RD7QR)

167
brb, colludin

Posted by: Donald Trump at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (M6n9N)

168 >>146 Everyone knows that the aliens in Area 51 really run the government. It's soooo obvious.

Yup. The Grays.

Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (r9UYA)

169 This is an amazing day on Ace of Spades HQ! Not only do we get long, thought-provoking posts like this one, but also sparkling commentary, puns and sarcastic responses from Ace in the comment section. At the risk of brown nosing, please keep it up.

Posted by: jayhawkone at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (ZD+J8)

170

brb, obstructin

Posted by: Donald Trump at March 13, 2018 03:44 PM (M6n9N)

171 The purpose of propagating conspiracy theories is to attack and demonize a person or party that you hate. It's a form of cognitive dissonance - often times the conspiracy theorist isn't even conscious of the real motive for his beliefs.

9/11 Truthers push the conspiracy because they hate whichever faction they lay accusations too - be it the US/government/Bush/ect. It isn't about finding 'the truth' about 9/11. It's about confirming their preconceived bias that the person or group they don't like is evil or malevolent. That's the truth. The conspiracy is merely a tool to confirm it. That's why facts don't matter and they'll just reinterpret every detail to fit their conspiracy.

Trump hires Tillerson? - 'This proves he's a Russian stooge!'
Trump fires Tillerson? - 'This proves he's a Russian stooge!'

Same thing with Comey.

Trump keeping him = they were in cohorts with Putin to deny Hillary the election!
Trump firing him = Comey was about to expose Trump about Russia!

It's not about the actual conspiracy. It's just cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: JC at March 13, 2018 03:44 PM (mJXUS)

172 Remember when Jonah was taunting the American Greatness site? Good Times.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:44 PM (2LelM)

173 VDH writes other places besides NR.Like this one I linked last night.

https://amgreatness.com/2018/03/12/swamp-things-in-the-russia-investigtion/

Posted by: steevy at March 13, 2018 03:44 PM (LiyEm)

174 Its been a long time since I've seen Jonah...when did he start eating extra large cheesesteaks daily and using the juices left over on his hands for hair gel...?

He looks like he just got out of a sauna, threw his clothes on and ran to the set to get there in time.

Posted by: H Badger at March 13, 2018 03:44 PM (n/0Nw)

175 Do these people think we are really dumber than they are?Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (/tuJf)

Oh, not just dumber, but lacking in virtue, perspicacity, historical understanding, and open-mindedness. You probably don't think butt-sex is real marriage too.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (CAKgV)

176 Hey guys, I'm going to take a nap. Wake me if something big comes up, like Japan attacking our fleet which is parked in the center of that big Bullseye and would be defenseless if they arrive before dawn and come in low and guessed our secret password which is Infamy41.

But that probably won't happen.

Posted by: FDR at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (ismre)

177 25 Isn't a bit of a stretch to list Patterico as a member of the Washington Consensus? But he's definitely gone off the deep end.

Posted by: LASue at March 13, 2018 03:24 PM (Z48ZB)

++++

I agree. He's a L.A. prosecutor, and I doubt he attends many DC dinner parties. However, he is simpatico with their cause.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (pvjTE)

178 Of course, we were sneered at and scorned as stupid, mouth-breathing lunatic conspiracy theorists for pointing out the self-connecting dots on the slow-motion coup being attempted against President Trump.

Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (NWiLs)

179
Sorry about VDH, but I won't read him in NR. The company you keep, etc.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh

Hadrian, you can read VDH's NR essays on Hanson's personal website, and avoid any clicks on NRO.

http://victorhanson.com/

VDH republishes his articles and essays there.

Posted by: Hands at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (EzdLW)

180 This reminds me of Harry Reid leading the masses in demanding Mitt Romney release his tax forms because he had it on good authority he broke the law. And when chastised for lying about Mitt's taxes recently, he responded, "Well, it worked, didn't it?"

That's all this is. An open secret in DC that Trump didn't really collude with Russia, but it works, doesn't it? Jonah is not saying it, but his silence says it: it worked, so why tell the truth?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (W+vEI)

181 Where's Jonah on this? Will he ever say? Will he just talk around it without doing his basic job -- You Had One Job, you know -- of telling his readers what he really thinks?

He won't say what he thinks because he'd rather push what he wishes were truth.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (fceHP)

182 Here's the thing --- we know the Russians have backed entire leftist movements in the west since at least WWII and that these efforts have been non-stop. So why is this never pointed out? Why do we let the left pretend that buying a few Facebook ads is tantamount to choosing our president for us when at every step of the way the left in the US has been in bed with the international left, including Russia? That is the whole point of globalism.

This is never pointed out. Leftists are allowed to pretend that this is some unprecedented effort on the part of the Russians, when in reality it was one of the lamest, and most poorly resourced stunts they have ever tried to pull. The only success they have had here is in getting Hillary to spread their disinformation, and our press has helped her in doing so. It is as if they are (shocker) all on the same team! They are the ones who have made one of the most ridiculous Russian ops ever into a success.

Posted by: Thatch at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (+p2i/)

183 Yeah, Goldcuck and National Rearview

They ran out Derbyshire

They ran out Mark Steyn

They ran out Ann Coulter

And then I wondered why I still read it. And Weird Dave visited their booth at some function in Maryland before the election in 2016, and he reported a very big Anti-Trump Vibe.

They play at being the kept parlor conservatives. Talk up all the smart conservative things to do, but don't really DO anything about it, and fight against anyone who does, that might rock the boat and break their iron rice bowls.

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (vcOmj)

184 Yup. The Grays.
Posted by: Under Fire at March 13, 2018 03:43 PM (r9UYA)

It's not us, we just probe a lot.

It's those damned Reptilians you really should be looking into. Those sons of guns will eat a bitch. We'll just probe you.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (Dn4Uq)

185
Anywhere else I can read VDH, I'd like to know. He's a stalwart and a patriot, but I won't give NR clicks just for him.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (BWL+E)

186 Treacherous McCain has raised one hand from the grave to chime in on the CIA pick.

Ugh, what a way to go out.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (CAKgV)

187 Adam Schiff looks like the bastard child of Marty Feldman and a chihuahua.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (nBr1j)

188 no evidence of collusion between Russia and Trump actually vindicated the "Washington Consensus
====================
If that has always been the consensus, why are we allowing Mueller and his law firm to bill us 10 million dollars a month for an investigation into nothing but Russian troll farms? Can this not be done more efficiently with existing government resources? ?? ???

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (RPWxr)

189 There are real and valid conspiracies, that's a word with proper meaning and use. The problem is when you treat every piece of information as proof that the conspiracy is true, but have no actual evidence. Its like the global warming ting or some other more broadly accepted scientific theories... everything is proof the theory is true, no matter how much it contradicts its self or your previous position. this is evidence of my theory's accuracy! And this thing which proves the opposite is somehow further evidence!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (39g3+)

190
Hadrian, you can read VDH's NR essays on Hanson's personal website, and avoid any clicks on NRO.

http://victorhanson.com/

VDH republishes his articles and essays there.

Posted by: Hands

Didn't see that before I posted. Thank you very much.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (BWL+E)

191 Posted by: FDR at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (ismre)

Lucky the carriers were out of town, right? I know, I know more CT.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (pzA2L)

192 Mental health professionals agree that it's not good to pander to the delusions of the psychotic.

Yet the MSM does it every day, day in and day out.

Posted by: shibumi at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (9oJYp)

193 177 I agree. He's a L.A. prosecutor, and I doubt he attends many DC dinner parties. However, he is simpatico with their cause.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (pvjTE)

Probably decided to stop standing up against the Left after he'd been SWAT'd be He Who Shall Not Be Named (under penalty of Lawfare).

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (XMDuf)

194 I guess McCain is proof torture works, he sang like a bird.

You're only supposed to give your name, rank and serial number when captured, instead the guy gave like 40 taped interviews.

And this guy went to Naval Academy in Annapolis.

Even Obama's CIA Director admitted this interrogation is how we got Bin Laden.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (uc45P)

195 The fact they cannot say exactly what it was that Putin was supposed to do to have Trump win sufficient state elections out of fifty to beat Hillary is really the tell.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Protect Your Despair with Gloom Guard Polish & Sealer! Only at The Outrage Outlet! at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (hLRSq)

196 I'm just going to file this whole idiotic affair in my nearly full to bursting "How You Got Trump" file.

And I'll be sure to cross-reference it in my already full to overflowing "How You Get MORE Trump" file.

Posted by: DocJ at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (slZXA)

197 >> And Weird Dave visited their booth at some function in Maryland before the election in 2016, and he reported a very big Anti-Trump Vibe.

Hell, they had their special Dump Trump edition.
Why would anyone believe those guys could be impartial in assessing Trump after that?

Posted by: Lizzy at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (W+vEI)

198
Isn't a bit of a stretch to list Patterico as a member of the Washington Consensus? But he's definitely gone off the deep end.

Posted by: LASue

++++

I agree. He's a L.A. prosecutor, and I doubt he attends many DC dinner parties. However, he is simpatico with their cause.
Posted by: Anon Y. MousP

He is simpatEEKo with their cause.

Posted by: PaterEEKo at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (EzdLW)

199 183 They play at being the kept parlor conservatives. Talk up all the smart conservative things to do, but don't really DO anything about it, and fight against anyone who does, that might rock the boat and break their iron rice bowls.
Posted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (vcOmj)

If someone comes along and actually starts to fix the problems, there's no reason to put their ugly mugs on TV anymore.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (XMDuf)

200 If that has always been the consensus, why are we
allowing Mueller and his law firm to bill us 10 million dollars a month
for an investigation into nothing but Russian troll farms? Can this not
be done more efficiently with existing government resources? ?? ???

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (RPWxr)

===============================
That's pretty much the point. Have Jonah and the NR crew started beating the drums for Mueller to wrap it up?

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (Pqytn)

201 187 Adam Schiff looks like the bastard child of Marty Feldman and a chihuahua.
Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (nBr1j)

What an embarrassment! We had to cut him out of the will!

Posted by: The Chihuahua at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (RD7QR)

202 Michelle is the male of a species.

That's really all anyone will ever know.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (FypLm)

203 185
Anywhere else I can read VDH, I'd like to know. He's a stalwart and a patriot, but I won't give NR clicks just for him.
--------------------------
Hadrian, by not going there you miss all the fun in reading the comments. Seems all they have left are Vichy Cuck Suckers these days. No one ever has a meaningful point to make cuz Facist Book.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:50 PM (2LelM)

204 Yeah, that's exactly what they want us to think.

How was that? Convincing enough? Rube Goldberg's kid needs to just go live near Area 51 and be done with it.

Bona fides, don'tchaknow.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at March 13, 2018 03:50 PM (GdWl+)

205 Posted by: Thatch at March 13, 2018 03:46 PM (+p2i/)

Because they think that the right would be disturbed by the connection with the Russians. They thought it would make the right abandon Trump.

They're simple thinkers. Who do americans of the trump voting type hate? Well, they didn't like Russia so let's say that Trump is with the Russians.

And who fell for it or pretended to? People like Goldberg.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 03:50 PM (CAKgV)

206 Michelle is the male of a species.

That's really all anyone will ever know.

Posted by: Sharkman at March 13, 2018 03:49 PM (FypLm)
=========

Must be that Arcturian poontang again.

Posted by: Pvt. Frost at March 13, 2018 03:50 PM (vg8iE)

207 Why do you hoard your insights?

Basically it comes down to this: if you're a pundit whose analysis and talk about various events is your only job and reason for pull and infulence... you can never admit you were wrong. Somehow you were always right and somehow always had the inside track.

Because otherwise, why listen to you? So you have to keep up this absurd continuous thread of lies and nonsense to maintain some sense of plausible expertise.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (39g3+)

208 I'm a little sad about Jonah because I learned a lot about conservatism through him.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (nBr1j)

209 23
Wait, if collusion is not the same as interfering with the election, then, pardon my French, what the fuck is Jonah Goldberg talking about?

That statement he made is Pelosi-esque in its clarity and concision.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at March 13, 2018 03:23 PM (fTKv+)

++++

He was repeating the distinction the committee made. Collusion means working with someone. When they are talking about interference, they mean stuff like RT stories and stuff put out on fake social media accounts. Basically, bullshit. The same sort of stuff our government does to other countries. Radio Free Europe, anyone?

Russia uses a fake twitter account to put out propaganda that the election is fixed and that Bernie Sanders was cheated out of the Dem nomination.

INTERFERENCE!!!

lol.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (pvjTE)

210 189 good point. Certainly there are mysteries to be solved and theories to be examined. As you said, the key is being willing to recognize facts that disprove or challenge your assumptions, if you had any in the first place.

Posted by: quint at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (n13/j)

211 Probably decided to stop standing up against the Left after he'd been
SWAT'd be He Who Shall Not Be Named (under penalty of Lawfare).

Who is this He who shall not be named? I missed the earlier references that would define him/it.

I know it violates the rules to openly come out and say who it is...since he must not be named, but can I have a hint?

Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (UThOJ)

212 Spin the Wheel of Conspiracy!

Can't be a loser if you don't spin!

Spin the Wheel!

Ho Ho. Step right up, Mr. Goldberg! Give 'er a good spin!

Posted by: headless Body of Agnew at March 13, 2018 03:52 PM (e1mEI)

213 If we are going to just ask questions let's all join in:

(1) What exactly did Putin do to help Trump win?
(2) How could [whatever] cause Trump to win?
(3) Why would Putin not want Hillary to win?
(4) Where was our vaunted security services while this was going on?
(5) If our security services have proof then what is it and why do we have to have hearing to draw that information out like pulling teeth? Why not just tell us flat out because if this - a president being an actual Manchurian candidate - is not sufficient reason to expose sources and methods then nothing ever will be.

You know, just asking questions.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Protect Your Despair with Gloom Guard Polish & Sealer! Only at The Outrage Outlet! at March 13, 2018 03:52 PM (hLRSq)

214 New book out today by David Corn and Michael Isikoff claims Obama hired Fusion GPS to slime Romney in 2012.

https://tinyurl.com/y7cs5ry7

So now we have this data point. We also know that Obama's PAC paid Perkins Coie nearly $1 million in 2016 along with Hillary and the DNC and we know that the wife of one of the head honchos worked directly for Obama during the 2016 race.

Does any rational person still not believe that Obama was part of the Russia collusion bullshit?

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:52 PM (/tuJf)

215 Here is a link to a story in Bongino's show notes ya gotta read:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-
government/2018/03/12/documents-
link-putins-favorite-oligarch-obama-
official-aided-anti-trump-dossier/

Some spaces added

Posted by: Sharkman at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (FypLm)

216 I'm a little sad about Jonah because I learned a lot about conservatism through him.
Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem

+++++++++++

I don't get it either, I liked Jonah previously as well.

Most of the other NeverTrumpers were douchebags from the start.

There's some sort of weird, cultural aversion from Jewish Americans towards Trump that makes no sense to me.

Even stalwart, conservative jews hate Trump with a burning passion.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (uc45P)

217 I've never been embarrassed about telling people that I think the mob killed JFK. I mean I don't really think it, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (sX1BW)

218 Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (UThOJ)

Look up on a search site regarding some bombing in a midwestern state that is abbreviated IN.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (pzA2L)

219 "Wargas is a great name"
.............

I like saying it.

Posted by: Barry Kripke at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (HgMAr)

220

FIRST AGAIN!!!!

What's this make,, like 50 in a row now?

*hic*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (pYqXv)

221 "And, as bonus: They should clue us in as to whether US troops killing Russian troops in Syria was done on Putin's orders."

Actually those who died in that engagement were volunteers/contractors, just like the ones who invaded Eastern Ukraine and stole the Crimea. Putin swore up and down there never were and Russian troops.

Posted by: Speller at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (pSotA)

222 Those Chemtrail people raise some interesting questions.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (4ZQMe)

223 Nevertrump is a self inflicted mental disorder. Fuck every one of them. They don't give a shit about this country.

Posted by: ccoffer at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (j1dPI)

224 I used to get a lot of shit at Hot Air (back when they had a comments section) when I commented in their threads denigrating the birther conspiracy over and over again. I would point out that those denigrating the conspiracy were intentionally conflating the Kenyan-birth birthers with the Natural-Born birthers, because the Natural-Born birthers had their facts straight and it was a real question of first impression never before decided by SCOTUS. It was a question of constitutional law, like whether the 2nd Amendment provided a personal right before Heller was decided. Reasonable minds could disagree, but these mother fuckers in the Washington Consensus elite would fit you for a tin foil hat as if you were the same as the guy buying the ramblings of Obama's confused Kenyan grandmother.

Oh, and in defense of the Kenyan birthers, I think it highly highly unlikely, but the birth certificate (even if valid) was only a prima facie case of a US birth. That means there was a rebuttable presumption that he was born in Hawaii. It was not an established fact, just that there was a rebuttable presumption. He was born in Hawaii unless and until more persuasive evidence was produced. I do not see why there could not have been a full blown proceeding with discovery on that point. Frankly, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Muh Russia bullshit, which I knew was bullshit from the beginning.

Posted by: tommylotto at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (oozmg)

225 And the mysteries of whose family members and friends might have been hired if Trump hadn't beaten Jeb and Ted in the 2016 primaries. Not that either of those two would have beaten Hillary of course, but Donny Two Scoops put the kibosh on their dreams before their candidates even reached the finals.

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (Pqytn)

226 If Donald has gas, I'm sure it's war gas. He could clear out a press briefing. I'm not saying he has gas, but if he does, it would be huuuuge.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:55 PM (nBr1j)

227 Oh boy!A new Best of the Worst is out.

Posted by: steevy at March 13, 2018 03:55 PM (LiyEm)

228 New book out today by David Corn and Michael Isikoff claims Obama hired Fusion GPS to slime Romney in 2012.

========

Corn and Isikoff are only credible if pimping for the donks OR lying about the republicans.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Profoundly Unserious at March 13, 2018 03:55 PM (pw+jk)

229 Without somewhere north of 4M illegal Mexicans in California, did Hillary actually win the popular vote? Did she and the Dem Party collude with illegal Mexicans to capture the WH? Did they promise Amnesty for their vote? Foreign Collusion is a daily thing in places like CA, NY, Chicago... BUT PUTIN!!!

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:55 PM (2LelM)

230 I know it violates the rules to openly come out and say who it is...since he must not be named, but can I have a hint?
Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (UThOJ)

Bing "Patterico lawfare"

Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 03:55 PM (NWiLs)

231 Does Bill Clinton believe information about UFOs has been hidden by the U.S. government?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (nBr1j)

232 There are real and valid conspiracies, that's a word with proper meaning and use. The problem is when you treat every piece of information as proof that the conspiracy is true, but have no actual evidence. Its like the global warming ting or some other more broadly accepted scientific theories... everything is proof the theory is true, no matter how much it contradicts its self or your previous position. this is evidence of my theory's accuracy! And this thing which proves the opposite is somehow further evidence!

IIC, once a theory is proven, it's no longer a theory, but a postulate. A truism. A real, live, concrete something or other that is always there and can be independently verified by anyone anytime. Like gravity.

That's why the question I always pose to anyone (particularly in politics) whenever I hear someone put forth an accusation like the P P Dossier is, "OK, prove it. If you can't, then STFU and stop bothering the grownups."

Posted by: BackwardsBoy likes lobster at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (GdWl+)

233 Tillerson got fired for the same reason Hillary and Kerry were hired; they were all comfy with the Iran Deal. Hillary only stepped down so Kerry would have his name on it, not her.

Tillerson was not up to the task in Korea, either.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (Ndje9)

234 How has Putin benefited from Trump as president? Specifically.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (vgbdh)

235 "Adam Schiff looks like the bastard child of Marty Feldman and a chihuahua."

I don't see why you have to be insulting about this. I reckon both Marty Feldman and the chihuahua both have feelings.

Posted by: :) at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (Fikbq)

236 En fuego!

Posted by: That Guy who annoyingly shouts "En Fuego!" at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (ctuyM)

237 Posted by:

at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (Fikbq)

That's EYE-gore

Posted by: Zombie Marty at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (pzA2L)

238 Those alien gals were hawt and loved a good cigar. Heh.

Posted by: Bubba Clintoon at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (vtcmf)

239 221 "And, as bonus: They should clue us in as to whether US troops killing Russian troops in Syria was done on Putin's orders."

Actually those who died in that engagement were volunteers/contractors, just like the ones who invaded Eastern Ukraine and stole the Crimea. Putin swore up and down there never were and Russian troops.
Posted by: Speller at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (pSotA)

Which is probably true; there are plenty of mercenaries from the former Soviet republics running around. But they were Russian trained, equipped, and supported.

Posted by: The Chihuahua at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (RD7QR)

240 Jonah Goldberg is a liar

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (UDDXv)

241 Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 03:53 PM (uc45P)

But that doesn't explain French, Williamson, Gergherty, Lowry, etc. or the worst, Dan McLaughlin

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (CAKgV)

242 Putting a man on the moon was a very extraordinary feat in the 1960s. It may seem absurd that the landings were actually filmed on a Hollywood soundstage, those theories raise some interesting questions.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at March 13, 2018 03:57 PM (4ZQMe)

243 Those Chemtrail people raise some interesting questions.
======
Naw bro, the real insight comes from the flat earthers.

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (Y78GG)

244 Those Ch*mtrail people raise some interesting questions.

You can't say the word, it summons them like the Candyman

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (39g3+)

245
Does Bill Clinton believe information about UFOs has been hidden by the U.S. government?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (nBr1j)

John Podesta does

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (lKyWE)

246
Does any rational person still not believe that Obama was part of the Russia collusion bullshit?
Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:52 PM (/tuJf)

--------
Obama leaning over and saying on a hot mic, "Tell Vlad (not Vladimer, not President Putin but Vlad) that I can be more flexible after the election."

How is that not an indicator of Obama's ties?

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (U+nHb)

247 " ... the media changes their story every day."

To whatever they hope will cause the greatest damage to PDT, or America in general.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - help us, pixy misa, you're our only hope! at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (e11dj)

248 245
Does Bill Clinton believe information about UFOs has been hidden by the U.S. government?

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:56 PM (nBr1j)

John Podesta does
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (lKyWE)

Makes sense, being as how he's an anal probe.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (nBr1j)

249 *** Because otherwise, why listen to you? So you have to keep up this absurd continuous thread of lies and nonsense to maintain some sense of plausible expertise.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

I agree, but in this case I think there's a larger concern for the pundits. Once they acknowledge Russia didn't conspire with Trump, it's a short walk to also having to acknowledge Russia (or maybe Russian individuals) helped craft a hit job on Trump. And then a short walk later, they'd have to admit Trump was . . . Oh dear me . . . 100% correct when he said he was being wiretapped.

How do you get a party invitation if you write that kind of column?

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (MouKZ)

250 Or, "have more flexibility..."

Can't remember, stupid memory.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (U+nHb)

251

Great piece by Mollie. Worth the read.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (fceHP)

252 John Podesta does

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 03:58 PM (lKyWE)

========================
Ol' John keeps stirring that pot to keep his spirits up.

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (Pqytn)

253 >>Corn and Isikoff are only credible if pimping for the donks OR lying about the republicans.

Which is why I find this admission so interesting. Talk about an admission against your interests.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (/tuJf)

254 A delusion is marked out by it's non-falsifiability.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (QQ+il)

255 Does any rational person still not believe that Obama was part of the Russia collusion bullshit?
Posted by: JackStraw

I'm not rational, but I'll buy that Obama was in this mix for a dollar!!

Sure, there are probably no "written records" except maybe some e-mails that were sent clandestinely by Obama from his Blackberry; not "whitehouse.gov".

Posted by: Bozo Conservative....menace to society at March 13, 2018 03:59 PM (vcOmj)

256 Ace is exactly right, the "Washington consensus" splits it's time advancing conspiracy theories for more air time, and then covering up their promotion of said theories, as "we didn't actually believe Trump is a Russian mole, we were talking about twitter bots #WashingtonConsensus"

It is personally gratifying for someone like Goldberg to have the ability to push the NeverTrump line of "see we told you this guy would bring disgrace on the party" without every having to acknowledge the outrageous allegation at the center of said media conspiracy narrative

Over the past 16 months the media has shown me they are who I always thought they were, in the process exposing the whores for clicks of the corporatist wing of the GOP

Posted by: TJ at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (V3MV5)

257 "182 Here's the thing --- we know the Russians have backed entire leftist movements in the west since at least WWII and that these efforts have been non-stop. So why is this never pointed out? Why do we let the left pretend that buying a few Facebook ads is tantamount to choosing our president for us when at every step of the way the left in the US has been in bed with the international left, including Russia? That is the whole point of globalism.

This is never pointed out. Leftists are allowed to pretend that this is some unprecedented effort on the part of the Russians, when in reality it was one of the lamest, and most poorly resourced stunts they have ever tried to pull. The only success they have had here is in getting Hillary to spread their disinformation, and our press has helped her in doing so. It is as if they are (shocker) all on the same team! They are the ones who have made one of the most ridiculous Russian ops ever into a success.
Posted by: Thatch "

This !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - help us, pixy misa, you're our only hope! at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (e11dj)

258 194 I guess McCain is proof torture works, he sang like a bird.

You're only supposed to give your name, rank and serial number when captured, instead the guy gave like 40 taped interviews.

And this guy went to Naval Academy in Annapolis.

Even Obama's CIA Director admitted this interrogation is how we got Bin Laden.
Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 03:48 PM (uc45P)

My flight instructor was a Commander in the Navy and knew guys that knew McCain. When he was running for president, I asked what he thought of him. He said "Oh, Songbird? It's a darn shame he's one of ours"

Posted by: Jollyroger at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (+087i)

259 Jonah Goldberg is boring and a liar

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (UDDXv)

260 Obama leaning over and saying on a hot mic, "Tell Vlad (not Vladimer, not President Putin but Vlad) that I can be more flexible after the election."
=======
Boris: I vill transmit this to Vladimer.

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (irZT8)

261 What's all this fuss about Russian allusions? Is that a problem? There's so many beautiful things that came out from Russia that we as Americans can appreciate too! I took a friend to see The Cherry Orchard about a month ago and we didn't wreck the Country! Get over yourselves!

Posted by: Emily Litella at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (iIrNN)

262 The game is obviously to keep the anti-Trump narrative alive for as long as possible and, to do it, the narrative has to morph and evolve to suit any actual, you know, facts that emerge.

It's hard to square the "no Collusion" facts that have emerged but Jonah (to my great sadness) tries hard to do it. It's low. And it's dishonest. Since he knows the hive mind will support him he only gives it a mediocre effort, but gets impatient when Mollie tries to nail down the story. Obviously that's the only real risk here, that the facts are clearly stated.

Gotta move those goalposts!

Posted by: Huck Follywood, anti-weather at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (rBnYq)

263 and apropos of nothing, I got a terrible haircut at lunch time. The barberess completely disregarded my instructions. Completely. I could have done as good a job myself.

At least it will grown out.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (QQ+il)

264
If that has always been the consensus, why are we

allowing Mueller and his law firm to bill us 10 million dollars a month

for an investigation into nothing but Russian troll farms? Can this not

be done more efficiently with existing government resources? ?? ???

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 03:47 PM (RPWxr)

------------------------------

The accusations that Russia 'interfered' with the election, which serves as the basis for this 'investigation', is that the DNC servers got hacked.

Here's a question - Has Mueller actually investigated these 'hacked' servers?

I mean, the entire accusations of 'collusion' is based upon the claim that these servers were hacked. Shouldn't that be the FIRST thing Mueller should be looking at?

If I was trying to investigate if someone was guilty of a crime... shouldn't I determine if a crime was even committed in the first place?

Posted by: JC at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (mJXUS)

265 >>> I've never been embarrassed about telling people that I think the mob killed JFK. I mean I don't really think it, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

I dabbled in that myself, but the problem is this:

1. Why did the government not then go after the mob?

Even harder to answer:

2. How could the mob have been so certain the government wouldn't have gone after it, after KILLING THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS BROTHER SERVING AS AG?

How do you do this without knowing for a fact you'll get away with it?

And how do you know you'll get away with it without having the government on board as co-conspirators?

All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (8rNrN)

266 There is absolutely no consensus on that thing in your mouth that I didn't do.

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg at March 13, 2018 04:02 PM (398bZ)

267 How do you get a party invitation if you write that kind of column?

I agree, I think the need to avoid certain subjects or damaging certain narratives is very compelling these days. In fact I think its what shapes most of what we see.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (39g3+)

268 259 Jonah Goldberg is boring and a liar

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:00 PM (UDDXv)

He's also starting to morph into late stage Orson Welles.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (4ErVI)

269 211
Who is this He who shall not be named? I missed the earlier references that would define him/it.

I know it violates the rules to openly come out and say who it is...since he must not be named, but can I have a hint?
Posted by: LGoPs at March 13, 2018 03:51 PM (UThOJ)

He'll literally sue anybody who says his name.

But once bombed a town in Indiana.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (XMDuf)

270 263 and apropos of nothing, I got a terrible haircut at lunch time. The barberess completely disregarded my instructions. Completely. I could have done as good a job myself.

At least it will grown out.
___________________________________

Women are always lousy barbers.

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (MnkFD)

271 Trump firing Tilerson will be a dead story in a few days.

He should have done this to Sessions as soon as Sessions recused himself and allowed this bullshit charade to consume his Presidency.

We also wouldn't have had the Roy Moore meltdown either.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (uc45P)

272 I guess McCain is proof torture works, he sang like a bird.

Everybody talks given enough time and interest.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (QQ+il)

273 Here's a question - Has Mueller actually investigated these 'hacked' servers?

IIRC the DNC refused to allow the FBI to access them. Those servers are probably bent, folded, spindled, mutilated, burned, beaten with sledgehammers, and fed through a car crusher by now.

Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (NWiLs)

274 Lesson learned today; never call your boss a moron.

Posted by: redenzo at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (14qvS)

275 At some point I still expect the nevertrumpers to say "well, shit. He ain't half bad." Proves the point that they wanted Hillary. They are all about the power, control, and a paycheck.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (4ZQMe)

276 >>> 32 One book by Mr. Goldberg entitled: _Donald Trump and Russian Collusion: This Sort of Thing is Definitely My Bag, Baby_ 8 minute

This comment is brilliant. I laughed and shared.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (8rNrN)

277 Sometimes I feel like I'm in one of those Sci-fi shows where the majority of the population has been infected with some virus that alters their reality...and only a few are left that are sane, and they need to find the cure.

It's just so much wrong, so many places...not just here. I mean, JJ linked an article that I read last night about how Britian is turning away conservative journalists, but bringing back their citizens who are ISIS, and providing lodging, et.al.

I wonder if in Dante's circles of hell there are ones for media and polititicians.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (/czxp)

278 I've never been embarrassed about telling people that I think the mob killed JFK. I mean I don't really think it, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

I think they probably were involved at some level, there was a bit of a... turnover in the mob soon after that. But it wasn't one of those "hire a mook to gun down this guy" it was more a friend of a friend dropped a word in the ear of someone who knew a guy who influenced someone etc.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (39g3+)

279 He's also starting to morph into late stage Orson Welles.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (4ErVI

Sorry, I don't drink Paul Masson.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (pzA2L)

280 He'll literally sue anybody who says his name.

But once bombed a town in Indiana.
Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (XMDuf)

Now I'm totally lost.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (+lOpA)

281 "Because they think that the right would be disturbed by the connection with the Russians. They thought it would make the right abandon Trump.

They're simple thinkers. Who do americans of the trump voting type hate? Well, they didn't like Russia so let's say that Trump is with the Russians.

And who fell for it or pretended to? People like Goldberg.
Posted by: dagny "

Pretty much what I've thought since day 1.

They're simple thinkers who think they're the Best and Brightest, and think we are the stupid ones.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - help us, pixy misa, you're our only hope! at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (e11dj)

282 Jonah Goldberg is the sort of chap that goes to a Taco Bell drive through and insists on using google translate to order "White Toast" in Spanish.

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (UDDXv)

283 276 Probably the best scene in the whole movie.

Posted by: steevy at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (LiyEm)

284 All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

That seems the most reasonable part to me. However, I still think it was the communists for the same reason they are still sowing division and chaos That's what the left does.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (CAKgV)

285 Everybody talks given enough time and interest.

There are two other options:

2) They go crazy and are worthless to question;
3) They die.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (39g3+)

286 At some point I still expect the nevertrumpers to say "well, shit. He ain't half bad." Proves the point that they wanted Hillary. They are all about the power, control, and a paycheck.
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy

++++++++

Me too

I mean I had real reservations about Trump early on, mainly that it looked like a vanity play as he had run for President several times before

But he proved me wrong and I'm happy to eat my words. REALLY glad he tore the masks off

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (uc45P)

287 Fmr CIA Director Brennan: I Think Tillerson Was Fired for Being 'Far Too Principled'
===

"Good Move by Trump?" question:

[x] answered

Posted by: woody summer at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (IkIB1)

288 Kennedy was killed because he was going to spill the beans about space aliens being in control of the planet.

I can't prove that but it does raise some interesting questions like have the greys yet reached the limit of knowledge that anal probing can provide?

Posted by: :) at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (Fikbq)

289 Sorry, I don't drink Paul Masson.
_________________________________

There's a blast from the past.

Posted by: Bartles and James at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (ATVNj)

290
Sure, the Mob, with all the killers it had at its disposal who almost never get caught, used Lee Harvey Oswald, a pathetic Marxist loser (a triple redundancy, I know), a guy who was caught within a couple of hours.

Basically, the Dallas PD had the case wrapped up that afternoon.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (BWL+E)

291 280 Now I'm totally lost.
Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (+lOpA)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedway_bombings

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (XMDuf)

292 Pearl Jam, desperately seeking relevance, has released an anti Trump song. Eddie Vedder who is worth $100M sings about rich and evil Trump is and how the little people will rise up against his oppression.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (vgbdh)

293 274 Lesson learned today; never call your boss a moron.
Posted by: redenzo at March 13, 2018 04:03 PM (14qvS)

Isn't that a compliment?

Just show him this site and say you were giving high praise.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (72PAC)

294 I'm convinced there is some connection between the "moon landing" and Aldo Nova stepping out of the helicopter in a Leopard Suit.

I haven't sorted it out yet.

Posted by: Mr. Wednesday Night is woke at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (ismre)

295 All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.
=====
Huh. That's like the only part of the whole thing that I actually had no trouble with. LBJ is probably the one politician least likely to be scrupled by morality. And that's sayin' something.

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (MYr6S)

296 >> "There's some sort of weird, cultural aversion from Jewish Americans towards Trump that makes no sense to me.

Even stalwart, conservative jews hate Trump with a burning passion.

Posted by: Apache

I suspect that for many of them it mostly comes down to Trump's hardline stance on the illegal immigration issue. "Discrimination" against fellow minority groups and all that. You'll never be able to reason with them about the subject.

Posted by: Anonymous 7 at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (Wv9jW)

297 Sometimes I feel like I'm in one of those Sci-fi shows where the majority of the population has been infected with some virus that alters their reality...and only a few are left that are sane, and they need to find the cure.

+++

*Points and screams*

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (/yTms)

298 281 "Because they think that the right would be disturbed by the connection with the Russians. They thought it would make the right abandon Trump.

They're simple thinkers. Who do americans of the trump voting type hate? Well, they didn't like Russia so let's say that Trump is with the Russians.

And who fell for it or pretended to? People like Goldberg.
Posted by: dagny "

Pretty much what I've thought since day 1.

They're simple thinkers who think they're the Best and Brightest, and think we are the stupid ones.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - help us, pixy misa, you're our only hope! at March 13, 2018 04:05 PM (e11dj)

From Day 1 I've been wait I don't want any problems with Russia. Why are people talking like we're going to start a war with Russia?

That probably makes me a Russian stooge.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (4ErVI)

299 Did tell my boss when he came in 'Speaking of the Devil ' he wasn't at first amused but told him it was in fun so no harm.

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (aC6Sd)

300 Sorry, I don't drink Paul Masson.
Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM

You will.

It's just before your time.

Posted by: The Swedish Bikini Team at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (ctuyM)

301 My theory on why there are so many JFK conspiracy theories is the media will never admit a left-winger shot JFK for bullshit Marxist reasons.

They would much rather entertain nonsense like John Birchers with the right wing military, etc.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (uc45P)

302 All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

Posted by: ace

Does Deep State exist?

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (8mOxN)

303 265 >>> I've never been embarrassed about telling people that I think the mob killed JFK. I mean I don't really think it, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

I dabbled in that myself, but the problem is this:

1. Why did the government not then go after the mob?

Even harder to answer:

2. How could the mob have been so certain the government wouldn't have gone after it, after KILLING THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS BROTHER SERVING AS AG?

How do you do this without knowing for a fact you'll get away with it?

And how do you know you'll get away with it without having the government on board as co-conspirators?

All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (8rNrN)

One ingenious way around this problem is to get another actor to be the assassins -- in this case, the military. Here's the scenario:

1. The military industrial complex wants a war in SE Asia but Kennedy doesn't so he's got to go

2. The plutocrats know Johnson is for sale so they give him a big old bribe

3. Plutocrats arrange the assassination with Lee Harvey as the fall guy

4. Johnson gets the presidency and the bribe

5. Military industrial complex gets their war

6. Johnson sweeps the conspiracy under the rug.

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at March 13, 2018 04:07 PM (RD7QR)

304 I think a lot of conspiracies develop because people don't like to acknowledge bad shit sometimes happens.

Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (nBr1j)

305 The idea that one man was just so crazy he killed the man that two really powerful and sinister groups wanted dead so badly (Communist Russia and the Mafia) is just so difficult to buy that people want to come up with theories. But it could have easily happened. Unlike nearly every detective novel written insists, coincidences happen all the time.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (39g3+)

306 Posted by: Bartles and James at March 13, 2018 04:06 PM (ATVNj)

Don't make me sing.

Posted by: Bruce Willis at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (pzA2L)

307 The best torture story I ever heard was a soldier in a NORK camp that pretended he had a motorcycle and would constantly tinker with it and ride it around the yard. The NORKs thought he was crazy and never fucked with him. Smart guy. Asians are scared of crazy.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (2LelM)

308 The barberess completely disregarded my instructions.

She was striking back at the patriarchy.

Posted by: Bubba Clintoon at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (vtcmf)

309 Jonah Goldberg's wife caught him refilling a box of Franzia with Thunderbird Wine

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (UDDXv)

310 Hillary India speech transcript excerpts, via the dailymail:

'I win the coasts, I win Illinois, Minnesota, places like that'
'So I won the places that are optimistic, diverse, dynamic, moving forward. And his whole campaign -- "Make America Great Again" was looking backwards,' Clinton said.
She continued: 'You know, you didn't like black people getting rights. You don't like women getting jobs, you don't want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are -- whatever your problem is, I'm gonna solve it,' she said, characterizing Trump.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y94g8jkb

Posted by: m at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (U6XUk)

311 I'm fucking obstructing the shit out of democrats and nevertrumpers. I'm grabbing their pussies and covering their cunt mouths.

Posted by: Gaius Donaldus Caesar at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (pJaW6)

312 283

screen. Coffee.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (vgbdh)

313 Willowed:

501 check this out

https://tinyurl.com/y786kcu4

If you didn't know who she is, I'd say a "1"

Scary, idn't
Posted by: Ignoramus at March 13, 2018
*
*
Hillary was actually sort of cute when she was young. Of course the demonic glare was starting to show in the eyes by the time she hit law school, and that screwed everything up.

Ever wonder what she would have been like if she'd stayed a Republican, a "Goldwater Girl"?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (PLO14)

314
All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

Really? LBJ was a dirty SOB

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (lKyWE)

315 anyone who says otherwise is crazy.
--------------

Crazy?! I'm not crazy, you're crazy!

Posted by: Chris Matthews at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (y3sT9)

316 Jonah Goldberg steals bumper stickers

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (UDDXv)

317 here's a joke I can tell now that Obama's out of office and it's okay again to make this kind of remark, because it's only Trump we're talking about.

When I was in a BlogCon or something in Dallas, I went to Dealy Plaza and of course the Book Depository. Went to the sniper's nest and all. (Actually I think you can't go to the actual sniper's nest; they have a mock-up of it one level above.)

Anyway, someone asked me what the sniper's nest was like, and I said: "INSPIRING."

NOW THIS WAS A JOKE Y'ALL

JOKE

PEOPLE SAY THINGS WHICH ARE NOT TRUE TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE LAUGH

Obviously I was not inspired as I did not do anything untoward.

And now that Obama's out of office, and there's just a president the Washington Consensus loathes and doesn't care about protecting much, I assume I can repeat a dark ironic joke I told years ago.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (8rNrN)

318 First, we have a debate about Iraq and WMDs earlier today.

Now, we have a debate about the Kennedy Assassination.

Who in the f**k turned on the time machine and why won't anyone turn it off?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (ATVNj)

319 88 I'd like trucon neverTrumpers just once cover DJT the way they would cover any other president--instead of always starting with "I hate, stupid head Donald Trump."
Posted by: Northernlurker but call me Teem. at March 13, 2018 03:32 PM (nBr1j)

They are too busy eating boogers

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (3Pma+)

320 Another thing to thank Mollie Hemingway for doing is posting the Bach Cello Suite on her twitter page.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, anti-weather at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (rBnYq)

321 Posted by: m at March 13, 2018 04:08 PM (U6XUk)

So what's her view on Lie-a-watha's opponent?

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (pzA2L)

322 "The Russians" did absolutely nothing to effect the election this has always been a fully concocted op by the Donks, Team Hillary, The GOPe and Deep State.

Johna Goldberg and others who push this bullshit are despicable pieces of partisan shit.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (UfMVm)

323 I think it's finally safe to fire Mueller.

Posted by: Max Power at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (q177U)

324 Did Obama collude or interfere in the Israeli election?

Posted by: Jean at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (I2ofu)

325 IIRC the DNC refused to allow the FBI to access them. Those servers are probably bent, folded, spindled, mutilated, burned, beaten with sledgehammers, and fed through a car crusher by now.
========
I think you'll find they made their way into Hillary's spare bedroom and went up in flames not to long ago.

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (onZp1)

326 Ahem, Kennedy was in Vietnam. It's Kennedy's war, not LBJ's or Nixon's

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (CAKgV)

327 The American mafia was pretty much at the peak of its power around the time JFK took those bullets.

Carlos Marcello, the boss of New Orleans and by extension much of the South, ran afoul of the Kennedy brothers big time. RFK had him deported to Guatemala (he wasn't from there they literally pushed him out of a plane on the runway and then left him in the middle of nowhere).

So definitely a motive and they had means. Still, I think too big of a risk to take.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (4ErVI)

328 @323

My preference is out of a canon.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (UfMVm)

329
It's all an NOKD thing with the Nevertrumpers.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (BWL+E)

330 I think a lot of conspiracies develop because people don't like to acknowledge bad shit sometimes happens.

A lot develop because known facts don't jive.
And government lies. Like. A. Rug.

Posted by: rickb223 at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (8mOxN)

331 All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (8rNrN)

++++

If JFK was assassinated on orders from Castro, in retaliation for attempts against Castro by the CIA (under JFK's orders), then LBJ's prior knowledge would not be necessary.

After it happened, the government could have made the decision to A) renounce assassinations of government officials and B) go with the lone gunman theory in order to stop the CIA's prior assassination adventures from coming out.

They could have been helped into this decision if the USSR was threatening to put out what they knew about the events in question.

Not that I really believe all that, but it is in the realm of possibility. Although it would have required LBJ's acquiescence after the fact, he wouldn't have needed prior knowledge.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (pvjTE)

332 17 Wargas is a great name.

Thanks. My great-grandfather came from Habsburg Budapest and it was originally "Varga."

Posted by: Robert Wargas at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (8uCXp)

333 Who in the f**k turned on the time machine and why won't anyone turn it off?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (ATVNj)

============================
Only Kenneth knows the frequency!

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (Pqytn)

334 300+ posts in and no one mentioned Arkancide? I am disappoint.

Posted by: Some Dumbass at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (X0n+F)

335 It surprised me that Jonah became a NeverTrumper. The reason why it surprised was that he's Lucianne Goldberg's son.

Background on Lucianne Goldberg. She helped Linda Tripp record Monica Lewinsky's story about her affair with slick Willy. And she was attacked for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucianne_Goldberg#Repercussions

I asked myself, How could Jonah Goldberg, whose own mother was attacked by the Clintonistas back in the 90s just sit back and not try to help prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS?

Posted by: Hands at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (EzdLW)

336 JFK the movie was so ludicrous yet an entire generation saw it and is convinced the cia, fbi, castro, lbj and the mob got together to kill tje prezzy.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (gZay/)

337 Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (ATVNj)

Speaking of the war of northern agression....

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (CAKgV)

338
315 anyone who says otherwise is crazy.
--------------

Crazy?! I'm not crazy, you're crazy!

Posted by: Chris Matthews at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (y3sT9)

It's okay to be crazy,
just don't let it drive you nuts.

Posted by: Jimmy Buffett at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (7UW64)

339 If it wasnt "collusion" charge why the fuss about impeachment?

These fucking liars.

Posted by: muckrack at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (9J46Z)

340 The "clean skin" mental gymnastics are actually required of only a shrinking percentage of literate adults who believe in such a thing as "facts" and "truth."

Today's nomenklatura is so permeated by cultural Marxism as to have almost entirely lost the sensibility for truth, and instead view nearly all public affairs through the lens of "helps me and my agenda to power" or "doesn't."

The thought of what actually happened or didn't, is either a minor annoyance, or totally absent from their thoughts.

The real avatar for the New Thinking is Mad Maxine Waters: "Impeach!" she shouted (brain entirely empty of reasons, and entirely full of self-righteousness).

Posted by: xnycpeasant at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (FLifI)

341 >>>One ingenious way around this problem is to get another actor to be the assassins -- in this case, the military. Here's the scenario:

1. The military industrial complex wants a war in SE Asia but Kennedy doesn't so he's got to go

2. The plutocrats know Johnson is for sale so they give him a big old bribe

3. Plutocrats arrange the assassination with Lee Harvey as the fall guy

4. Johnson gets the presidency and the bribe

5. Military industrial complex gets their war

6. Johnson sweeps the conspiracy under the rug.

...

who was this invested in a war in Vietnam?

Also, Kennedy was the one who started putting American troops in. There is no evidence he would have backed down when the limited American involvement failed to stem the NV aggression.

This whole Oliver Stone theory is just silly. People do not join massive conspiracies with high-ranking military officers just to get into a land war with small Asian nation with no resources like oil and barely any economy.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (8rNrN)

342
I asked myself, How could Jonah Goldberg, whose own mother was attacked by the Clintonistas back in the 90s just sit back and not try to help prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS?

Posted by: Hands

He grew in office.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (BWL+E)

343 Really? LBJ was a dirty SOB
Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (lKyWE)

Ask his beagle. But seriously, how effed up does one have to be to allow your boss, the president of the US to have his head cleaved in two in public? LBJ, dickhead, bully but I don't see it, though the motive was there.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 04:12 PM (pzA2L)

344 47 17 Wargas is a great name.
Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 03:22 PM (+lOpA)

I assume pronounced Vargas.

Nope. Pronounced more or less phonetically, except the first "a" is sort of long, as in "aardvark."

Posted by: Robert Wargas at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (8uCXp)

345 335

Religion is more imporyant than family. In this case Jonah's religion is DC cocktail parties.

Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (gZay/)

346 IIC, once a theory is proven, it's no longer a theory, but a postulate. A truism. A real, live, concrete something or other that is always there and can be independently verified by anyone anytime. Like gravity.

Nothing is ever proven in science. Some models (hypotheses) have just not been disproven as yet. If they haven't been disproven for a long time, after numerous attempts to do so, they get promoted from "hypotheses" to "theories."

But they're still subject to being falsified, i.e., shown to be incomplete (Newtonian mechanics) or just plain wrong (conservation of parity).

A postulate is something taken as a premise for the purpose at hand, with the implicit proviso that the validity of it itself may be reconsidered in the future.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (vP84t)

347 I never believed conspiracy theories until Obama. Then I realized leftists not only loathe me, they have no qualms about using the government to destroy and silence me and mine in any way possible.

So I still may not believe conspiracies, but I am certainly more open to believing some utterly disturbing crap is happening away from prying eyes.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (72PAC)

348 I asked myself, How could Jonah Goldberg, whose own mother was attacked by the Clintonistas back in the 90s just sit back and not try to help prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS?

Posted by: Hands at March 13, 2018 04:11 PM (EzdLW)

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME, MOM!!!

Posted by: Jonah at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (7UW64)

349 Ought to be an interesting "G-File" from Jonah Goldberg this weekend. Wonder if he'll address this ~~accusation~~ ahem issue?

I'll bet his Twitter feed just lit up.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (3NjrP)

350 In the dorm room, while we were getting high, chasing skirt, and studing for mid-terms, Jonah could be found in the corner arguing with a fullly clothed coat tree.

.....'You see my argument'......

Posted by: redenzo at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (14qvS)

351 pretended he had a motorcycle and would constantly tinker with it
-----------

So, a Harley owner?

Posted by: Bwahahaha at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (+y0ym)

352 I checked PornHub again today and Stormy's face is still getting dick whipped.

Over and over and over.

So there's that.

Posted by: Carlos Danger at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (ATVNj)

353 "Landslide Lyndon" was dirty?

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (Pqytn)

354 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (PLO14)

I think she was cute-then she got more and more power hungry and sold her soul-if not literally- then figuratively.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (8+Ozj)

355 Now I'm totally lost.

Posted by: eleven at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (+lOpA)
=================
ask your question at Hogewash.com

Posted by: Huck Follywood, anti-weather at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (rBnYq)

356 Come on guys you're baiting me with the JFK conspiracy discussion and just asking questions.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (A4DFu)

357 >>>Hillary was actually sort of cute when she was young.

She had big boobs, and a willingness to bring in other chicks. Not much else going on.

Posted by: wooga at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (Z/rHa)

358 RE Kennedy Assassination - always thought the Cubans were behind it and used Harvey as a convenient drop pistol to make their escape. Both the Soviets and Cubans knew Harvey and knew he was totes psychotic over John Connelly and revenge. Never bought the Mob angle. The Mob would never tangle with the Kennedy's due to professional curtesy.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (2LelM)

359 So I still may not believe conspiracies, but I am certainly more open to believing some utterly disturbing crap is happening away from prying eyes.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (72PAC)

Of course, you have to think that government employees are smart enough to pull off a conspiracy, which is a stretch at best.

It is much easier to believe in just plain malice.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (7UW64)

360 ***295 All JFK assassination theories require, ultimately, that LBJ was part of the plan from the beginning, and that's why I can't buy into them.
=====
Huh. That's like the only part of the whole thing that I actually had no trouble with. LBJ is probably the one politician least likely to be scrupled by morality. And that's sayin' something.

Yes yes and yes. One of the cable networks ran a special on the "was LBJ behind it all? " topic a few years ago. Made sense to me. Way more than all the "they killed him because he was so wonderful" pablum.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (MouKZ)

361 >>>If JFK was assassinated on orders from Castro, in retaliation for attempts against Castro by the CIA (under JFK's orders), then LBJ's prior knowledge would not be necessary.

After it happened, the government could have made the decision to A) renounce assassinations of government officials and B) go with the lone gunman theory in order to stop the CIA's prior assassination adventures from coming out.

...

why would anyone care very much the the CIA attempted to kill a hostile foreign tyrant backed by the Russians and who had attempted to put nuclear ICBMs on his island?

That's not a Secret you have a huge conspiracy to cover up a murder to keep secret.

also the cia had been doing this sort of thing through the fifties. Who cares?

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (8rNrN)

362 I think it was Mr. Green with the lead pipe in the drawing room.

Posted by: quint at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (n13/j)

363 I can't quite work Jonah Goldberg out, he really does know better. I guess maybe his job at National Review would be in jeopardy if he wasn't on the team.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (39g3+)

364 350 In the dorm room, while we were getting high, chasing skirt, and studing for mid-terms, Jonah could be found in the corner arguing with a fullly clothed coat tree.

.....'You see my argument'......
Posted by: redenzo at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (14qvS)

Replace Jonah with Bill Kristol and I will firmly believe it.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (72PAC)

365 Liberal LOVE to pretend Kennedy was not the one that got us into Vietnam.

Eisenhower went out of his way to avoid putting troops there, he knew it was a bad move.

But Kennedy wanted to show he was a Cold Warrior to be taken seriously and not just a little kid, so he did lots of stupid things to look tough.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (uc45P)

366 First the Ayatollah advocates gun confiscation, clearly making a play for the Democrat nomination. And then Bill Kristol heads for New Hampshire?

You know what this means?

Khameni/Kristol in 2020(tm)!

Slogan: "The Truth is Out There. And It's Sitting on Top of an ICBM."

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (Ndje9)

367 Carlos Marcello, the boss of New Orleans and by extension much of the South, ran afoul of the Kennedy brothers big time. RFK had him deported to Guatemala (he wasn't from there they literally pushed him out of a plane on the runway and then left him in the middle of nowhere).

Lesson learned. You don't take our deportees .... we just dump them on a dirt strip.

Posted by: Jean at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (I2ofu)

368 Jonah Goldberg was caught Photoshoping a fake dick bulge onto his tinder profile picture

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (UDDXv)

369 It' an enigma rapped in a riddle and stuffed way way up into my butt!

Posted by: Sheppy Smith at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (pJaW6)

370 why would anyone care very much the the CIA attempted to kill a hostile foreign tyrant backed by the Russians and who had attempted to put nuclear ICBMs on his island?

-----------

I only care that it failed at its mission.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (sX1BW)

371 But Kennedy wanted to show he was a Cold Warrior to be taken seriously and not just a little kid, so he did lots of stupid things to look tough.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. He was not taken seriously, was not likely to be reelected, was not impressing people. So he did stuff to seem tough and capable. His greatness and genius was pretty much invented by boomers whole cloth.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (39g3+)

372 It's not the Unified Theory Of Russia Collusion at work; it's proof of the Wad Particle.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (ewxPW)

373
Ahem, Kennedy was in Vietnam. It's Kennedy's war, not LBJ's or Nixon's

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:10 PM (CAKgV)

When Kennedy was assasinated we had 16,000 troops in Vietnam by the end of 1965 we had over 180,000. It was LBJ's war

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (lKyWE)

374
LBJ was the kind of low-grade sleazeball who got George Parr to steal an election for him. He wasn't a big enough sleazeball to get JFK assassinated. By late 1963, he was a powerless joke, even in Texas.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (BWL+E)

375 347 I never believed conspiracy theories until Obama. Then I realized leftists not only loathe me, they have no qualms about using the government to destroy and silence me and mine in any way possible.

So I still may not believe conspiracies, but I am certainly more open to believing some utterly disturbing crap is happening away from prying eyes.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:13 PM (72PAC)

When people plan in secret and act in furtherance of that plan, you by definition have a conspiracy.

Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (NWiLs)

376 This post needs a flaming photo of grandpa simpson shaking his first at a cloud.

What they are doing is talking the way psychologists talk to crazy patients. You never contradict the delusion since that would erode trust. So you talk as if you *could* believe it, but have some questions.

I heard of one dr. (don't know if it is true) who gathered together 3 nuts from institutions around the country who all believed they were Jesus. He put them together to see how they would work it out.

I think we see a bit of that, here. The "conservative" pundits are having to confront their delusions and they are rationalizing. So this is interesting, we have them first behaving like the condescending, self superior psychologists, and then like the crazy patients making excuses.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (LWu6U)

377 Of course, you have to think that government employees are smart enough to pull off a conspiracy, which is a stretch at best.

It is much easier to believe in just plain malice.
Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (7UW64)

Yep, which is exactly the trouble I have with any grand conspiracy. Not only is the government utterly incompetent to the nth degree, but some huge cover up would leak like Niagara Falls.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (72PAC)

378 Sometimes I feel like I'm in one of those Sci-fi
shows where the majority of the population has been infected with some
virus that alters their reality...and only a few are left that are sane,
and they need to find the cure.

It's just so much wrong, so many places...not just here. I mean, JJ
linked an article that I read last night about how Britian is turning
away conservative journalists, but bringing back their citizens who are
ISIS, and providing lodging, et.al.

I wonder if in Dante's circles of hell there are ones for media and polititicians.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 13, 2018 04:04 PM (/czxp)

-------------------------------
Infecting the majority is difficult, time consuming, and inefficient. To cause societal collapse, all you need to do is infect the power structure - the select few who rule or govern, and those who control the media.

Remember, they are not the majority. They just control what the majority see and hear.

Posted by: JC at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (mJXUS)

379 >>>Huh. That's like the only part of the whole thing that I actually had no trouble with. LBJ is probably the one politician least likely to be scrupled by morality. And that's sayin' something.

dude, a major murder requires a major motive. Even unscrupulous people do not kill presidents just for shits and giggles.

What's the math? That he would be president? Well there was a good chance he'd be president had kennedy served two terms.

That he was so huge on a war in Vietnam? What evidence is there for this? LBJ seemed animated to escalate by a fear he'd be branded the guy who lost vietnam. He didn't want to look weak. He escalated to save his reputation. He didn't have any pre-standing ideological zeal to get into a major war there.

He inherited the war, you know.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (8rNrN)

380 also the cia had been doing this sort of thing through the fifties. Who cares?

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (8rNrN)

Well I cared! Raul gave me an exploding cigar on my birthday as a prank and I shit my fatigues!

Posted by: Fidel Castro at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (4ErVI)

381 >>This whole Oliver Stone theory is just silly.

I did give us one good Keith Hernandez meme though.

Back and to the left.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (/tuJf)

382 Trump was the biggest birther. A massively inconvenient fact for Ace who suddenly hates all conspiracy theories

Live by the conspiracy sword. Die by the conspiracy sword

Posted by: Birther Trump at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (4R0Al)

383 So there's that.
Posted by: Carlos Danger at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (ATVNj)

I can perhaps understand why that would be attractive to Carlos, but why it would be attractive to anyone else I don't quite get.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (8+Ozj)

384 I asked myself, How could Jonah Goldberg, whose own mother was attacked by the Clintonistas back in the 90s just sit back and not try to help prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS?

Because Donald Trump has weird hair, gold furniture, and can't put a good sentence together using multisyllabic words.

It's like mentioning McDonalds. They have better coffee than starbucks and a perfectly healthy grilled chicken salad, but O>M>G> it's the refuge of the most lowly, the least enlightened, the worst of the worst.

Policy be damned, it's all about how much MORE enlightened you are than the mob.

Well, the "mob" hates you for that exact attitude. Good luck with that.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (CAKgV)

385
who was this invested in a war in Vietnam?

Also, Kennedy was the one who started putting American troops in.

Sergeant Arthur Dietrich said Eisenhower started with the troops.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (IqV8l)

386
Yes yes and yes. One of the cable networks ran a special on the "was LBJ behind it all? " topic a few years ago. Made sense to me. Way more than all the "they killed him because he was so wonderful" pablum.
Posted by: 2009Refugee

LBJ was a giant asshole, but I think he was too smart to think he could get away with it. He would have never done it in Dallas, either.

Posted by: Jean at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (I2ofu)

387 362 I think it was ~~Mr. Green~~ Joey Ramone with the ~~lead~~ bong pipe in the ~~drawing room~~ rock and roll high school.

Posted by: Iggy Pop at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (ATVNj)

388 the smug Washington pundit class tried to manage Trump and, to their shock, they bet way wrong and now it's destroying their livelihoods. I guess Jonah is frustrated and maybe a little desperate.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, anti-weather at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (rBnYq)

389 You don't like women getting jobs, you don't want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are

Leave Elizabeth Warren out of this.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (vP84t)

390 When I was in a BlogCon or something in Dallas, I went to Dealy Plaza and of course the Book Depository. Went to the sniper's nest and all. (Actually I think you can't go to the actual sniper's nest; they have a mock-up of it one level above.)

The only time I was in Dallas was before there was a sniper's nest museum, but I had my cab go there and let me out for a couple of minutes.

The shot is a lot more straight down than it looks on TV. The head snapping back because the shot from above hits the top of the head makes a lot of sense.

So it was Oswald, from that window. Why? Jeebuz, Ruby sure threw a wrench into that picture didn't he?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (fuK7c)

391 Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (BWL+E)

One of the better scenes in The Right Stuff was his temper tantrum in the limo.

Posted by: auscolpyr at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (pzA2L)

392 336 JFK the movie was so ludicrous yet an entire generation saw it and is convinced the cia, fbi, castro, lbj and the mob got together to kill tje prezzy.
Posted by: #neverskankles at March 13, 2018
*
*
With the exception of Costner as Jim Garrison -- the real Garrison was an enormous tall guy, more like James Arness as Marshal Dillon -- the casting was great. Tommy Lee Jones as Clay Shaw, Gary Oldman as Oswald, and Joe Pesci as that creepy-looking David Ferrie, all looked like the real people. And they actually filmed great hunks of it in New Orleans.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (PLO14)

393 His greatness and genius was pretty much invented by boomers whole cloth.

----------

Three big contributing factors - one of which I kind of give him credit for:

1. Catholic. A lot of built in support.
2. Cuban Missile Crisis. May have gotten us in the mess, but also got us out.
3. Going to the Moon. He said we will and we did. Kudos to him for that.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (sX1BW)

394 I took Goldbergs "Newsletter" way back when it was just text, and he talked to The Couch a lot.... it was good.

But now he's a totally different guy, and I hate his fucking guts.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (jjaLl)

395 375 When people plan in secret and act in furtherance of that plan, you by definition have a conspiracy.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (NWiLs)

The truly frightening part is that NOW they're all so much in lockstep that they don't even have to conspire, they all just know what "needs to be done".

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (XMDuf)

396 You don't like women getting jobs, you don't want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are

Hillary, spreading diviseness and identity politics over other continents now.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (vP84t)

397 Trump just wanted Obama to produce a birth certificate. He finally did. Why it took so long is a mystery, if it's even real. I always thought that the BC said, "white" and he couldn't let that be seen.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (CAKgV)

398 Looking back, it would have been better to invade Cuba than get involved with Vietnam. Cuba has wonderful beaches, nice looking chicks, rum and is 90 miles south of Florida. It could have been done in less than 3 months from start to finish. Vietnam has nice beaches and fish sauce.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (2LelM)

399 What if it wasn't Russia propping up Castro?

What if it was Colonel Sanders and the Pentaverate?!?!?!

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (YsXnv)

400
Sometimes I feel like I'm in one of those Sci-fi
shows where the majority of the population has been infected with some
virus that alters their reality...and only a few are left that are sane,
and they need to find the cure.

Green Acres is the place for me.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (IqV8l)

401 362 I think it was Mr. Green with the lead pipe in the drawing room.

Posted by: quint at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (n13/j)

Mustard, knife, lounge.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (7UW64)

402 By the way, anyone who enhances their fame from saying, "You're fired!" wouldn't have any problem calling Rex on Friday and saying the same. The tweet deal is as someone smart upthread said, Tillerson's ego making the most of a firing.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (U+nHb)

403 When I was in a BlogCon or something in Dallas, I went to Dealy Plaza and of course the Book Depository. Went to the sniper's nest and all. (Actually I think you can't go to the actual sniper's nest; they have a mock-up of it one level above.)
...
IF I remember right, the snipers nest mock-up is set up actually where Oswald took the shot from.

You can't go in it or even take a photo of it, so of course my husband took several photos.

Posted by: stace at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (6HFDU)

404 So I still may not believe conspiracies, but I am certainly more open to believing some utterly disturbing crap is happening away from prying eyes.

The left has figured out that the more bold and outrageous they act, the less people are likely to believe it. Nobody would do that!!! Its the anti conspiracy system, you do something so unbelievable that people refuse to believe it at least publicly for fear that they will be laughed at.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (39g3+)

405 When people plan in secret and act in furtherance of that plan, you by definition have a conspiracy.
Posted by: Insomniac - Nowhere Man at March 13, 2018 04:16 PM (NWiLs)

Fair enough. But there's a difference between 'Obama Admin used the IRS to attack and intimidate conservative groups,' and '(insert name here) killed JFK.'

We know for a fact Obama and his minions did some terrible, terrible things. Despite the media's best efforts, we have tons of empirical evidence.

Things like JFK and the Moon Landing don't have any of that.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (72PAC)

406 I went to Dealy Plaza and of course the Book Depository.

I did too, and I remember thinking "this is it? This is all there is?" It was rather anti-climatic. TV adds so much with music and camera angles and all sorts of stuff, that I expected it to be bigger...to feel different somehow.

My thinking on JFK changed after reading Dr. Feelgood. He was taking way too many drugs. That compromises your abilities and decision making badly.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (/czxp)

407 Jonah Goldberg got caught tying his Fitbit to the cat.

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (UDDXv)

408 It was Nixon's war!

Posted by: the media, academia, and most other dummies. at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (n13/j)

409 My dad, (not a republican then) said Kennedy was a screw up and would not have been reelected. The whole legend was created after he got shot.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:20 PM (CAKgV)

410 397 Trump just wanted Obama to produce a birth certificate. He finally did. Why it took so long is a mystery, if it's even real. I always thought that the BC said, "white" and he couldn't let that be seen.
-----------------------
Tump Trumped Obama at Trolling. Alpha-dog pees on Beta-male.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (2LelM)

411 384 I asked myself, How could Jonah Goldberg, whose own mother was attacked by the Clintonistas back in the 90s just sit back and not try to help prevent Hillary from becoming POTUS?

Because Donald Trump has weird hair, gold furniture, and can't put a good sentence together using multisyllabic words.

It's like mentioning McDonalds. They have better coffee than starbucks and a perfectly healthy grilled chicken salad, but O>M>G> it's the refuge of the most lowly, the least enlightened, the worst of the worst.

Policy be damned, it's all about how much MORE enlightened you are than the mob.

Well, the "mob" hates you for that exact attitude. Good luck with that.
Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:17 PM (CAKgV)

They get no greater pleasure than being able to make that nasty sneering face that you see the likes of Schumer and Kristol make all the time.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (XMDuf)

412 So Russia and Trump did not collude...Then Trump did nothing wrong...so Impeachment is off the table...but Russia still interfered....and obviously Hillary DESERVED to be elected...so Trump has to resign...and Pence has to step aside...then Hillary can in installed...under the Penumbra clause of the Succession section of the Constitution...and Hillary can start doing all the favors she promised to all those donors to the CGI

Its all so simple and logical. How can anyone not understand?

Posted by: JB1000 at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (16OL0)

413 Jonah Fucking Goldberg aspires to grow up one day into an msm cabalist.

Posted by: Taqyia2Me at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (Ftuf+)

414 In future history books, this era will either be the end of this nonsense, or the point of no return for this democracy.

Posted by: BluesFish at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (3g9Il)

415
*blink-blinky-blink*

They are , I think, liberty, uh, eat some nails put on my suit of armor and, well see connections, no orange slices are sometimes called, uh those things, I come together for nail polish and the common tater-salad. So there!

*blink-blinky-blink*

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (mPeei)

416 Yes yes and yes. One of the cable networks ran a special on the "was LBJ behind it all? " topic a few years ago. Made sense to me. Way more than all the "they killed him because he was so wonderful" pablum.
Posted by: 2009Refugee

LBJ was a giant asshole, but I think he was too smart to think he could get away with it. He would have never done it in Dallas, either.
Posted by: Jean at March 13, 2018 04:18 PM (I2ofu)

LBJ was no day at the beach, but I think it's a huge stretch to impute to him any agency in this. He was a dirtbag, but I don't he would have contemplated anything like this, and not just because of the risk.

I say, give the man a LITTLE credit.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (vP84t)

417 Hillary, spreading diviseness and identity politics over other continents now.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (vP84t)
---------

Good. They can have her, with my blessing. Let her try to break some glass ceiling somewhere else. If she can keep upright.

Posted by: bluebell at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (oMtOd)

418 The truly frightening part is that NOW they're all so much in lockstep that they don't even have to conspire, they all just know what "needs to be done".

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (XMDuf)

You give "them" much too much credit for brains and ability.

"They" are government idiots, the worst kind.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (7UW64)

419 It was the Trilateral Commission's war!

Posted by: David Rockekeller at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (ATVNj)

420 OT - Bloomberg TV is running a long commercial for Conor Lamb oh no wait it's a "news" story on the election.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (OLCnA)

421 Jonah Goldberg tried to look up Tide Pods on MyFitnessPal

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (UDDXv)

422 396 You don't like women getting jobs, you don't want to see that Indian American succeeding more than you are

Hillary, spreading diviseness and identity politics over other continents now.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (vP84t)

That's why the only two Indian-American governors in US history were elected in backwards red states. Go figure.

Posted by: stace at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (6HFDU)

423 Good. They can have her, with my blessing. Let her try to break some glass ceiling somewhere else. If she can keep upright.

Posted by: bluebell at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (oMtOd)

She'll probably break it by throwing an empty vodka bottle straight up.

Posted by: tcn in AK at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (7UW64)

424 >>>382 Trump was the biggest birther. A massively inconvenient fact for Ace who suddenly hates all conspiracy theories

Live by the conspiracy sword. Die by the conspiracy sword
Posted by: Birther Trump

...

as long as you admit that the same cucks who preen about how anti-conspiracy-theory they are are doltish suckers for one that validates their stupid beliefs.

PS, I never bought into nor pushed the birther conspiracy theory. I thought it was bullshit, and said so. Repeatedly.

Unlike the cucks, who can't quite seem to voice their opinions on the current leftist-approved Hillary-invented conspiracy theory.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (8rNrN)

425 >>>NOW THIS WAS A JOKE Y'ALL

you're such a card ace!

Posted by: concrete girl at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (SJBL7)

426 398 Looking back, it would have been better to invade Cuba than get involved with Vietnam. Cuba has wonderful beaches, nice looking chicks, rum and is 90 miles south of Florida. It could have been done in less than 3 months from start to finish. Vietnam has nice beaches and fish sauce.
Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:19 PM (2LelM)

My rebuttal: Vietnamese chicks (and Cochin Chinese chicks).

Posted by: joncelli, because somebody had to at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (RD7QR)

427 Robert Wargas, if you're still here, I was wondering if you are a regular commenter here or if you've never been here before. And I hope we are not scaring you away.

Posted by: bluebell at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (oMtOd)

428 Sergeant Arthur Dietrich said Eisenhower started with the troops.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr
___________

Its pretty well established Eisenhower refused to put combat troops in Vietnam.

There's ZERO debate Kennedy put combat troops in Vietnam.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (uc45P)

429 Sometimes I feel like I'm in one of those Sci-fi
shows where the majority of the population has been infected with some
virus that alters their reality...and only a few are left that are sane,
and they need to find the cure.

Thought that the entire Obama admin and campaign. I was agape. This guy? This little marxist piss boy? Never got it. Looked like the population had been medicated.

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (CAKgV)

430 Jonah Goldberg used Snapchat filters to make his Silver jewelry look like Gold

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (UDDXv)

431 Nevertrump is a self inflicted mental disorder. Fuck every one of them. They don't give a shit about this country.

Posted by: ccoffer at March 13, 2018 03:54 PM (j1dPI)
********************************
No they don't. They are blinded so much by their derangement they don't realize what they are doing to their own Party. They would rather stand with the ANTIFA, BLM, Hate America Party.
They can't see the forest for the trees.
Idiots... all of them!

Posted by: redridinghood at March 13, 2018 04:23 PM (PvFoN)

432 409 My dad, (not a republican then) said Kennedy was a screw up and would not have been reelected. The whole legend was created after he got shot.
---------------------
The movie PT-109 was made and released before Kennedy went pink cloud. The Kennedy aura was being fapped from day one. Having JFK go Martyr just made it a multiple decade franchise.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (2LelM)

433 That's why the only two Indian-American governors in US history were elected in backwards red states. Go figure.

Posted by: stace at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (6HFDU)

============================
Man, that "sacred honor" BS was gold, Jerry, gold!

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (Pqytn)

434
JFK's brother RK was really putting a hurt on mob types. Something like 700% increase in prosecutions with RK as AG. RICO was in the wings, probably being formulated.

Posted by: Forgot My Nic at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (LOgQ4)

435 why would anyone care very much the the CIA attempted to kill a hostile foreign tyrant backed by the Russians and who had attempted to put nuclear ICBMs on his island?

That's not a Secret you have a huge conspiracy to cover up a murder to keep secret.

also the cia had been doing this sort of thing through the fifties. Who cares?

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:14 PM (8rNrN)

++++

Who cares? DC politicians care, once it became evident that the gun could be successfully turned against them. If killing government leaders is legit tactic for us to use, then other countries are happy to do the same in return. And, for a DC politician, this is immensely more concerning than soldiers and spies offing each other.

They were happy to make the deal that politicians were off the target list But, if it was known that JFK was assassinated under Castro's orders, then we would have to retaliate. DC did not want to retaliate. They wanted a truce.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (pvjTE)

436 "They" are government idiots, the worst kind.

Yes, but people are so afraid of being called a conspiracy kook that they are totally unwilling to even talk about what is blatantly in front of their face. You can be utterly incompetent and get away with a lot when you control entertainment, news, courts, and all of government. And even if you lose control of the government, the rest will cover for you so that doing something about your incompetence will be met with a wall of constant opposition.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (39g3+)

437 The Washington Consensus was always against the Vietnam War.

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg at March 13, 2018 04:24 PM (ATVNj)

438 A conspiracy is a conspiracy until it is proven not to be a conspiracy. Which is the major part of the conspiracy.

Posted by: The MSM at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (O5Q3r)

439 Its pretty well established Eisenhower refused to put combat troops in Vietnam.

There's ZERO debate Kennedy put combat troops in Vietnam.

---------

This is one of those few historical what-if scenarios I find interesting. How would Vietnam have turned out if JFK had lived.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (sX1BW)

440 It was LBJ's war

1. how did we get lbj? who picked that pos for vp

2. lbj didnt do anything against jfk's mandates. He tried to run with the agenda. if the war was something not supported by jfk, then it would not have escaleted.

3. Oh, so jfk only got us into the quagmire, and lbj screwed it up. doesn't the former count

You could say that it would have went swimmingly if lbj hadn't fucked it up, but that would require (a) accepting that a proxy war with the commies was necessary, and (b) criticizing the band of idiots jfk had put in charge of state, defense, etc. who lbj relied upon. The Left was unable to do that, so they blamed Nixon.

It was jfk's war. and jfk and lbj executed it like a committee in the faculty lounge. Like iraq, something had to be done, but not what they did.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (LWu6U)

441 My big issue is the "given" that the DNC was "hacked." Why has that gone done as if it was proven?

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (CAKgV)

442 Because Donald Trump has weird hair, gold furniture, and can't put a good sentence together using multisyllabic words.

You know, I suspect he speaks as he does to hit a resonance with ordinary people. Now I risk being hypocritical here, because I deprecated Obama for doing much the same thing, but consider Obama's numerous risible gaffes over time (Austrian, uncle liberating Auschwitz, etc.). Those bespoke someone who was not too bright, IMO. Granted Obama had longer in the public eye than Trump has had (as a politician), but still ...

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (vP84t)

443 Wow.

Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain and Oman met at the White House today to discuss the humanitarian crisis in Gaza (and I'm sure a couple other things).

https://tinyurl.com/yb23m6ml

When was the last time Israel and a bunch of Arab countries met at the White House to discuss anything? Oh yea, never.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (/tuJf)

444 Way more than all the "they killed him because he was so wonderful" pablum.

Posted by: 2009Refugee

Especially since he was a abject failure up to that point. He screwed up pretty much everything he touched. Not everything but very nearly.

And JFK shares a distinction with FDR (though JFK got the junior varsity version):

FDR was the only individual for whom a Constitutional Amendment was passed to stop anyone else from doing what he did (and it was passed pretty much as they were pouring the dirt on him). JFK didn't get the full Constitutional Amendment treatment but he got a major federal law passed to stop anyone from ever doing the shit he did (putting his brother in the cabinet).

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (8gDQu)

445 The birther theory was not stupid, either Obama purposely wanted it to be a conspiracy theory by stonewalling or he took active steps to avoid it.

I mean Obama's own autobiography says on the front sleeve he was born in Kenya.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (uc45P)

446
My rebuttal: Vietnamese chicks (and Cochin Chinese chicks).
--------------------
Okay, but factor in the cost of a twelve hour flight and the humidity and fish sauce. Just add another hour to your flight and land in Chang Mai.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (2LelM)

447 317 [REDACTED]

When I was in a BlogCon or something in Dallas, I went to Dealy Plaza and of course the Book Depository. Went to the sniper's nest and all. [REDACTED]

Anyway, someone asked me what the sniper's nest was like, and I said: "INSPIRING."

[REDACTED]
[REDACTED]
Obama
[TOTES REDACTED]
[YOU DID NOT SEE THE WORD REDACTED]
Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (8rNrN)

ZOMG blogger says mean thing about Obama. Find out how this will lead to Trump's impeachment, more at the top of the hour.

Posted by: CNN, probably at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (72PAC)

448 The point that ALL Kennedy conspiracy theorists miss is that if they really wanted Kennedy out of office, they could have simply leaked stories of JFK's MANY sexual exploits with all and sundry and 1963 America--starting with JFK's Catholic base--would have hounded him out of office-OR--simply denied him the nomination ONE YEAR LATER. There was no need to blow his brains out in public.

Posted by: JoeF. at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (7uYFy)

449 Kennedy had some speech where he pretty well described the "deep state mob", the secret societies. (infiltration, subversion ... and sounds like the CIA) Dissenters are silenced, no rumor is printed ...

It would be no surprise if "those people" would kill him, and they probably had connections to organized crime (which they surely must still today, see Arkansas/Clinton/cocaine).

But how or if they did it, I don't know. Russians/mob/unions/Democrats ... all good buddies then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8HTr-F-FVM

Posted by: illiniwek at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (bT8Z4)

450 >>>
I did too, and I remember thinking "this is it? This is all there is?" It was rather anti-climatic. TV adds so much with music and camera angles and all sorts of stuff, that I expected it to be bigger...to feel different somehow.

my shock was how small Dealy Plaza was and how VERY, VERY short the distances were from the sniper's nest to the turn where the president was first shot.

When you see it in person, it looks much smaller than it does on TV.

I realized two things:

1, this is not a hard shot to make. It's like 75 or 100 yards.

2, this place is far too small for there to be guys taking shots from the "Grassy Knoll," which I didn't even realize was the Grassy Knoll when I was on it. It's a dinky little bit of roadside grass with a seven foot elevation to it. It's TINY. No one with guns could fucking hide there!

I had friends stand at various positions on it. We were all within 10 or so yards of each other. It's too small a place for any kind of gunman (or team of two gunmen) to shoot off guns without being seen.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (8rNrN)

451 Jonah Goldberg steals salt packets

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (UDDXv)

452
How would Vietnam have turned out if JFK had lived.

Posted by: SH

The same.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (BWL+E)

453
dude, a major murder requires a major motive. Even unscrupulous people do not kill presidents just for shits and giggles.

What's the math? That he would be president? Well there was a good chance he'd be president had kennedy served two terms.

That he was so huge on a war in Vietnam? What evidence is there for this? LBJ seemed animated to escalate by a fear he'd be branded the guy who lost vietnam. He didn't want to look weak. He escalated to save his reputation. He didn't have any pre-standing ideological zeal to get into a major war there.

He inherited the war, you know.

======
Right - so as I said LBJ was a turd - but everything else is bollocks. It doesn't really work. There is something missing in all the scenarios.

For example Its not like Lee Harvey had a rational motive.

Posted by: simplemind at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (5YxRB)

454 Tump Trumped Obama at Trolling. Alpha-dog pees on Beta-male.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (2LelM)

At least i'll go down as a president, or while president ?

Posted by: Obama at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (9J46Z)

455 And now that Obama's out of office, and there's just a president the Washington Consensus loathes and doesn't care about protecting much, I assume I can repeat a dark ironic joke I told years ago.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM (8rNrN)

only if you're a "comedian"

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (fceHP)

456 The problem with pre-Clinton era conspiracy theories is that 60% of Americans were actually American back then. At that time insane SJWs were the exception, not the rule.

The Clintons introduced "Social Justice". The Bushes patted it on the head and had it over for dinner on Thursdays. The Obamas injected it with steroids and released it on the world.

Now we are all paying the price for the Long March. And we might lose America completely to socialist fanatics before it is all over.

And the Nevertrumpers want to whine about Russian collusion?

Fuck you, Jonah you bootlicker.

Posted by: woody summer at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (IkIB1)

457 First, we have a debate about Iraq and WMDs earlier today.

Now, we have a debate about the Kennedy Assassination.

Who in the f**k turned on the time machine and why won't anyone turn it off?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:09 PM

Dude. It's 10x worse than you're imagining.

I just got back from the Hillary! thread below. Are you sitting down?

Ace made a pun. Actually, more than one. Or what we're being asked to believe is Ace.

I think between that, and your observation, there's plenty of evidence to connect the two, and realize that The Crazy Years, if not The End Times(tm) are upon us!

Where is Ace, and what have you done with him, Sonobi????

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (ctuyM)

458 The movie PT-109 was made and released before Kennedy went pink cloud. The Kennedy aura was being fapped from day one.

Yeah but it wasn't taking hold. Kennedy's chances of reelection were about Carter level. People just didn't care for him, and he wasn't living up the hype. More hype doesn't help that.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (39g3+)

459 Obama caused most of the birther conspiracies. He was born in Kenya when it was to his advantage and born in Hawaii when it was legally necessary.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (A4DFu)

460

*blink-blinky-blink-blink*

It's really simple when you think about it...

*blink-blink*

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at March 13, 2018 04:26 PM (mPeei)

461 but he got a major federal law passed to stop anyone from ever doing the shit he did (putting his brother in the cabinet).

-----------

I didn't realize there was such a law. Strikes me as unconstitutional, but probably has the desired effect. De facto law even though it would (should) never hold up.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 04:27 PM (sX1BW)

462 *** LBJ was a giant asshole, but I think he was too smart to think he could get away with it. He would have never done it in Dallas, either.
Posted by: Jean

Oh i don't think he had it done. I just think that if you're gonna have a conspiracy to kill someone, somebody should receive an actual . . . Uh . . . Benefit from taking the risk. LBJ getting himself the Oval Office sounds way more logical than a lot of the other theories.

Not as logical as Oswald acting alone, though.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 13, 2018 04:27 PM (MouKZ)

463 Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (LWu6U)

Yep. It was LBJ's war, not JFK's, as much as I deprecate the latter as a Celtic Obama.

Recall the Gulf of Tonkin incident; it was a straight-up manufactured excuse not just to send advisors, but ultimately to commit ground troops in force.

That was 100% an LBJ Presents.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:27 PM (vP84t)

464 This is one of those few historical what-if scenarios I find interesting. How would Vietnam have turned out if JFK had lived.

Posted by: SH

_________

It couldn't have been any worse than how LBJ ran it.

We actually had Vietnam won under Nixon, it was Democrats in Congress that refused to keep their promise to South Vietnamese to play political games. They were pissed Nixon had won 49 states.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:27 PM (uc45P)

465 Not as logical as Oswald acting alone, though.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at March 13, 2018 04:27 PM (MouKZ)

Occam's Razor, FTW.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (vP84t)

466 I'm not big on military/industrial evil cabal theories, but I do think the Vietnam war was their joint. I think they ginned it up because war is good for business, gives them something to do, and lets them try out new toys.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (39g3+)

467 Yes; LBJ's policy was "Don't Win, Don't Lose". Which means you've already lost. Like Tillerson.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (Ndje9)

468 1. how did we get lbj? who picked that pos for vp

=========================

Kennedy did. Probably Joe, sr. The 1960 presidential election was one of the closest elections in history, and every Dixiecrat vote counted. Even then, deals were done to lock up the Chicago vote.

Posted by: mrp at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (Pqytn)

469 But if they really wanted Kennedy DEAD, they could have ensured that the daily drug cocktail that JFK received from a quack doctor for his many ails and illnesses contained a little "something extra." The OD would have been called an anuerysm or a heart attack and JFK would have still be as dead. But with an intact head.....

Posted by: JoeF. at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (7uYFy)

470 Weasel Zippers has a video about a quarter of the way down with a Dr., saying Hillary has vascular dementia and only a could of years to live-and that was during the campaign.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (8+Ozj)

471 When was the last time Israel and a bunch of Arab countries met at the White House to discuss anything? Oh yea, never.
________________________________________

Trump fooled them. Told them Melania was going to do the Dance of the Seven veils and Congress only appropriated funds for four.

Out of curiosity, did Rex Tillerson help set that meeting up as Secretary of State?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (ATVNj)

472 Most disturbing is that they keep catching Hillary as she flops down the steps. Huma looks on bored, as if it happens constantly. Why would they even plan that route? Bill?

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (CAKgV)

473
JFK was a hopped up whoring speed freak and LBJ knew it.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (lKyWE)

474 Has Hillary stopped committing treason? Has the Clinton Foundation stopped being an international crime syndicate? Will the Clintons return money they raised for the Haitians and then stole? Just asking questions.

Posted by: Fourth Post Today, I need a nap at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (PQD/T)

475 I'd love a plausible explanation as to why, just before making that slow, 120 degree turn onto Elm St, the Secret Service agent standing on the back shelf of Kennedy's limo was told to stand down.

Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (jjaLl)

476 Rightthink is hilarious. Once you're passed the bullshit, there's nothing left but to move on to the next rightthink issue, hoping the people that believed in your bullshit theory are so blinded by their own ideological prejudices that they fail to notice the shit sandwich they're being feed. Bona petit, stooges!

Posted by: Concerned Peoples Front at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (rdl6o)

477

JackStraw, everything you commented. Yes. Agree.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (fceHP)

478 Dennis Prager at 12 noon was going over Hillary's speach in India, besides a new low for her, he said it was just a pack of lies.

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (aC6Sd)

479 I keep reading the headline, but I cannot figure out the pun. Or is the lack of pun part of the conspiracy; and therefore a metapun?

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (ymnmz)

480 brb assassinating JFK over EO 11110.

Posted by: Federal Reserve at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (ismre)

481 This is one of those few historical what-if scenarios I find interesting. How would Vietnam have turned out if JFK had lived.

Posted by: SH

JFK was a weak and callow youth, a lifelong fuck-up who came within a gnat's eyelash of being court-martialed as the only small boat skipper in naval history to get run down by a warship, and who later so (negatively) impressed Khruschev face to face at Vienna as to tempt him by putting missiles into Cuba.

So, yeah, JFK would've romanced the pooch too. He was a Celtic Obama.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (vP84t)

482
That's why the only two Indian-American governors in US history were elected in backwards red states. Go figure.
Posted by: stace at March 13, 2018 04:22 PM (6HFDU)

-------

Excellent point.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (U+nHb)

483 427 Robert Wargas, if you're still here, I was wondering if you are a regular commenter here or if you've never been here before. And I hope we are not scaring you away.

Not a regular commenter but a regular reader, so I'm not scared in the slightest.

Posted by: Robert Wargas at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (8uCXp)

484 How much did Hillary shake down the Indians for the Clinton Foundation?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (ATVNj)

485 451 Jonah Goldberg steals salt packets
--------------------------
LOL. I have a habit of stealing really nice Fru Fru salt and pepper shakers from Fru Fru resturants by hiding them in my wife's pocketbook. She's finds this annoying. My son finds it funny. We have a really nice collection of Fru Fru S&P Shakers. BTW - only new startup restaurants think putting out expensive S&P shakers will build brand instead of go missing. Business - How Does That Work?

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (2LelM)

486 I'm not big on military/industrial evil cabal theories, but I do think the Vietnam war was their joint. I think they ginned it up because war is good for business, gives them something to do, and lets them try out new toys.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor

+++++++++++++++

I don't think they start wars, but I do think conservatives have a weird blind spot when it comes to military spending and these sorts of crony companies.

It's really like our version of Solyndra. Only 100,000 times more expensive.

We had to leave the gold standard because of Vietnam war spending. There are real costs to being overly trigger happy when it comes to war.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (uc45P)

487 The birther theory was not stupid, either Obama purposely wanted it to be a conspiracy theory by stonewalling or he took active steps to avoid it.

I mean Obama's own autobiography says on the front sleeve he was born in Kenya.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (uc45P)

Besides, Barky was born to a foreign father and likely took on Indonesian citizenship in his youth. Either of these are enough to render "Natural Born Citizen" status void, if he ever had it to start, but that has never been hashed out fully in either a Constitutional Amendment defining what it is or in any court's decision.

But there is NO QUESTION that Barky had to prove that he was, in fact, eligible for the position if any voter or any state demanded it. NO QUESTION WHATSOEVER. If he was, then no problem, but that was something that any reasonable person would admit had to be officially decided.

Of course, while Barky was running in 2008 we had an undisputed alien running for President on several state ballots (including New Jersey where the most serious challenge was put up by D'Onofrio). That was Calera, who was a friggin green card holder! A friggin green card holder on the Presidential ballot ... which is all the proof you need that the Sec State of New Jersey was negligent, at best. But, of course, it was ruled that a voter had no standing to demand that a Presidential candidate actually prove that he was eligible. Yep ...

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (8gDQu)

488 I'm convinced that the vast majority of wrong-thinking people are right.

Posted by: Jonah Goldberg at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (2NqXo)

489 481 So, yeah, JFK would've romanced the pooch too. He was a Celtic Obama.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:30 PM (vP84t)

Sounds a bit like Songbird McPlanecrash.

Posted by: Hikaru at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (XMDuf)

490 *cackles*

No impeachment? That's like saying "no botox"!

If we ~~steal the election~~ win in November, we'll impeach Trump, collusion or no collusion.

Posted by: Nancy "crumbs" Pelosi at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (EzdLW)

491 Not a regular commenter but a regular reader, so I'm not scared in the slightest.
Posted by: Robert Wargas at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (8uCXp)
----------

Good! Some of these people here can be kind of odd. I can name names if you want me to.

Posted by: bluebell at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (oMtOd)

492 but I do think conservatives have a weird blind spot when it comes to military spending and these sorts of crony companies.

-----------

Republicans - yes. Conservatives - I think we see pretty clearly. That being said, I'd rather waste $ on tanks and carriers than on welfare.

Posted by: SH at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (sX1BW)

493 Jonah thinks America is an idea not a people. Odd for someone editing a magazine named National Review. I have pleaded with him many times to look up what nation actually means.
Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 03:26 PM (2LelM)

That 'America as idea' trope originated with Jack Kemp, at least in the modern era. Paul Ryan, a Kemp acolyte, has mouthed it before.

Jack Kemp was, by all accounts, a good and decent man, and if 'America is an idea' was his way of saying that American ideals are an inspiration to the world, then sure, of course, gotcha.

But that isn't what Ryan means, or Goldberg. They use it as a moral argument for de facto open borders aka cheap labor for those big money donors who own the GOP Establishment.

Posted by: troyriser at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (K8f5g)

494 He was born in Kenya when it was to his advantage and born in Hawaii when it was legally necessary.

Exactly. It was his trickery and stunts in the past that created the birther thing, not something invented whole cloth. I mean his own wife not long before his campaign stated that he was born in Kenya. They were so into the con that they sort of forgot it had to be dropped by that point.

So yeah, it wasn't unreasonable that people said "you know, this looks kind of hinky..." Because it was. Just not how they thought.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (39g3+)

495 and apropos of nothing, I got a terrible haircut at lunch time. The barberess completely disregarded my instructions. Completely. I could have done as good a job myself.

At least it will grown out.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 13, 2018 04:01 PM (QQ+il)

Should have come by the arti house today. I had to cut my husband's hair this morning. Not always in the mood to do it and he needs it cut every two weeks or so.

I would have listened... fwiw

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at March 13, 2018 04:32 PM (fceHP)

496 It was jfk's war. and jfk and lbj executed it like a committee in the faculty lounge. Like iraq, something had to be done, but not what they did.

JFK sent a couple hundred guys. That's like saying that Nigeria is Trump's war or Obama's war. (I've lost track of where we have soldiers on the ground, it's too many places).

LBJ scaled it up, from 500 to 500,000. The most sickening thing I've ever read is McNamara saying that they knew in '65 that the war could not be won. That's when there were a thousand or so American boys dead and not 58,000.

It was LBJ's war, because he was a moral coward who thought he was continuing JFK's legacy and he couldn't stop himself and look unmasculine.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (fuK7c)

497 Not letting JFK off for Vietnam. Remember, he pretty much called the hit on Diem.

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (2LelM)

498 OT - Bloomberg TV is running a long commercial for Conor Lamb oh no wait it's a "news" story on the election.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at March 13, 2018 04:21 PM (OLCnA)
************************
This is why I despise the MSM.
Wake Up PA.

Posted by: redridinghood at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (PvFoN)

499
That was Calera, who was a friggin green card holder! A friggin green card holder on the Presidential ballot

Woot! Ought to put Her Majesty on the Presidential ballot then. She'll make 'em jump.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (BWL+E)

500 When was the last time Israel and a bunch of Arab countries met at the White House to discuss anything? Oh yea, never.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 13, 2018 04:25 PM (/tuJf)
wow indeed. was this before Trump left for SD? His schedule makes my head spin.

Posted by: IC at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (a0IVu)

501 war is good for business

Nah, I don't think so. That's a leftist trope, methinks. Rumors or threats of war clobber, e.g., the NYSE, because there's nothing businessmen hate more than uncertainty, and there's nothing more uncertain than war.

There may be the odd industry that figures to benefit, but by and large, war is bad for business.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:34 PM (vP84t)

502 @397

He didnt release a birth certificate he released a pdf of a birth certificate which was a complete fraude.

In fact one of the things I used to love to do was download the fabricated birth certificate directly from the White House website and load it into illustrator and show people
all of the layers in the composited birth certificate.

You could see how they manipulated the birth certificate by changing dates and other aspects of the certificate.

It was a fraude just like shit Midas.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 13, 2018 04:34 PM (h7oS5)

503 Jonah Goldberg intentionally forgets his cellphone in Ubers to make his GoogleMaps history less boring.

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:34 PM (UDDXv)

504 war is good for business
=========
Its better if you own the banks.

Posted by: Call me nate at March 13, 2018 04:34 PM (YsXnv)

505 I'm not big on military/industrial evil cabal theories, but I do think the Vietnam war was their joint. I think they ginned it up because war is good for business, gives them something to do, and lets them try out new toys.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:28 PM (39g3+)

-----

Yeah, that whole communism in Southeast Asia was a big nothing burger. See: Pol Pot

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (U+nHb)

506
Das nood is hier.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (BWL+E)

507 There is an election in PA today? No wonder the trolls came out to play.

Posted by: IC at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (a0IVu)

508 365 Liberal LOVE to pretend Kennedy was not the one that got us into Vietnam.

Eisenhower went out of his way to avoid putting troops there, he knew it was a bad move.

But Kennedy wanted to show he was a Cold Warrior to be taken seriously and not just a little kid, so he did lots of stupid things to look tough.
Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:15 PM (uc45P)

As much as I would like to go hunt down and kill Noam Chumpsky, and if I am declared terminally ill I will a la Jack Ruby, The Chump was absolutely right about JFK. LBJ was merely following the tracks laid down by JFK into Vietnam.

Indeed, had he not been assassinated, he might have gone out in disgrace in 1968, rather than LBJ.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (ujg0T)

509 Jonah seems to have morphed into a Dick Morris when it comes to being right about things.

Posted by: kathysaysso at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (vkS2Z)

510 If LBJ could have put the military on the War On Poverty we would have really won something. Imagine what Detroit would look like today if he invaded Detroit in 65 instead of 67?

Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:36 PM (2LelM)

511 Nood. Fusion GPS had a Chicago Gay Connection. No, really.

Posted by: andycanuck at March 13, 2018 04:36 PM (ewxPW)

512 Posted by: Concerned Peoples Front at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (rdl6o)

Global warming
Russian collusion
McCarthyism
Gay marriage
Gender fluidity
Keynesian economics
War on Poverty

Posted by: dagny at March 13, 2018 04:36 PM (CAKgV)

513 Dick Morris when it comes to being right about things.
Posted by: kathysaysso at March 13, 2018 04:35 PM (vkS2Z)

Now that's a name I have not heard in a long time. A LONG time.

Posted by: Obi-Wan Commenter at March 13, 2018 04:37 PM (72PAC)

514 To be fair, it wasn't exactly as clear how bad amphetamines were back then. The US military and intelligence handed those things out like tic tacs. SO yeah Kennedy was hopped up on them, but not like a known junkie.

It's really like our version of Solyndra. Only 100,000 times more expensive.

I agree. The mlitary is grossly bloated and wasteful, matched only by intel: the right's two sacred cows. And its like a mom that turns their child in to a beanbag from over indulgence, our love of them is ruining them.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:37 PM (39g3+)

515 This is why I dumped getting the NRO newsletter that Jonah wrote. He played both sides but leaned too much on the other side while acting as if he was not really doing so. Plus his absolute hatred for anyone, Trump especially, who thinks outside the box was so palable. I just couldn't take it any more. At least Geraghty was more balanced, and once in awhile even on our side. I just don't need the nonsense. I read all sides and make up my mind I don't need anyone telling me I'm stupid for doing so.

Posted by: sally at March 13, 2018 04:37 PM (sBDDH)

516 I mean his own wife not long before his campaign stated that he was born in Kenya. They were so into the con that they sort of forgot it had to be dropped by that point.

----------

I think it was also on a book jacket.

Posted by: Seems Legit at March 13, 2018 04:37 PM (U+nHb)

517 >>> Trump was the biggest birther. A massively inconvenient fact for Ace who suddenly hates all conspiracy theories

See also Ted Cruz dad helped Oswald, Seth Rich, Vince Foster, Scalia, and other conspiracy theories he conveniently floated without saying anything firmly.

Posted by: Some Dumbass at March 13, 2018 04:37 PM (X0n+F)

518 Republicans - yes. Conservatives - I think we see pretty clearly. That being said, I'd rather waste $ on tanks and carriers than on welfare.
Posted by: SH

________

While I would agree, the problem is this "horse trading" is how budgets get out of control.

Republicans want their big military budgets for their donors, and Democrats say "okay, we'll give you that if you give us our welfare spending" So both sides get guns and butter.

The last budget deal put Obama to shame and Republicans justified it by saying "but our military!!!!"

If we truly want smaller government, we need a leaner military.

The amount of waste is truly jaw dropping and the military is not your dad's military anymore. It's more of a government works program like the DMV.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:38 PM (uc45P)

519
Good! Some of these people here can be kind of odd. I can name names if you want me to.

Posted by: bluebell
_____________

This is about me,, isn't it?

*blink-blinky-blink-blink*

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at March 13, 2018 04:38 PM (mPeei)

520 Yeah, that whole communism in Southeast Asia was a big nothing burger. See: Pol Pot

Yep, millions spent and tens of thousands of dead and we sure stopped that Pol Pot guy!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at March 13, 2018 04:38 PM (39g3+)

521
Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Bahrain and Oman met at the White House today to discuss the humanitarian crisis in Gaza (and I'm sure a couple other things).

https://tinyurl.com/yb23m6ml

When was the last time Israel and a bunch of Arab countries met at the White House to discuss anything? Oh yea, never.
Posted by: JackStraw

But, but... Trump and his administration have no diplomatic experience!

Posted by: CNN-MSNBC-NYT at March 13, 2018 04:38 PM (EzdLW)

522 >>>Nah, I don't think so. That's a leftist trope, methinks. Rumors or threats of war clobber, e.g., the NYSE, because there's nothing businessmen hate more than uncertainty, and there's nothing more uncertain than war.

these were the years of the Missile Gap and Space Race. And the Cold War at its height.

I think the Military/Industrial Complex was doin' just fine, Vietnam or no Vietnam.

Posted by: ace at March 13, 2018 04:38 PM (8rNrN)

523 You could see how they manipulated the birth certificate by changing dates and other aspects of the certificate.

It was a fraud just like shit Midas.

Posted by: Kreplach at March 13, 2018 04:34 PM (h7oS5)

Yep. And that's not how you "release" official papers, anyway. You authorize the relevant agency to release official copies to the press. That's a "release". Not having some alleged photocopy or jpg of a paper appear around midnight on some lefty web site. It was a total mockery.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:39 PM (8gDQu)

524 Vietnam was a result of the collapse of French Indochina which started after WW2. The US believed in the domino theory, and some say the Vietnam War did in the end slow Communist expansion in South East Asia and other regions, certainly the Communists, paid a dear price. Eisenhower was involved in trying to support the French, and he later did put in advisors and Special Forces types.

He is certainly not to "blame" in my mind, the major escalation came later, under LBJ. Again, not a conspiracy, just mission creep. YMMV.

Posted by: Quint at March 13, 2018 04:40 PM (n13/j)

525 >>>485 451 Jonah Goldberg steals salt packets
--------------------------
LOL. I have a habit of stealing really nice Fru Fru salt and pepper shakers from Fru Fru resturants by hiding them in my wife's pocketbook. She's finds this annoying. My son finds it funny. We have a really nice collection of Fru Fru S&P Shakers. BTW - only new startup restaurants think putting out expensive S&P shakers will build brand instead of go missing. Business - How Does That Work?
Posted by: Gumby at March 13, 2018 04:31 PM (2LelM)

_______

What is Fru Fru? Is it like FroYo?

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:40 PM (UDDXv)

526 this place is far too small for there to be guys taking shots from the "Grassy Knoll," which I didn't even realize was the Grassy Knoll when I was on it. It's a dinky little bit of roadside grass with a seven foot elevation to it. It's TINY. No one with guns could fucking hide there!

lol
That happened to me too. I was like "Where's the grassy knoll?" When my friends pointed out, I thought they were messing with me. I pretty much didn't believe them. I mean, how could this even have a name? There's nothing to distinguish it. But I guess "patch of grass" is not as cool as Grassy Knoll.

And yes, the shot would have been easy to make...it was so close. Although we did not do all the testing you and your friends did.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 13, 2018 04:40 PM (/czxp)

527 446
My rebuttal: Vietnamese chicks (and Cochin Chinese chicks).
--------------------
Okay, but factor in the cost of a twelve hour flight and the humidity and fish sauce. Just add another hour to your flight and land in Chang Mai.

Posted by: Gumby
-----------
Indeed. Welcome to the land of Smiles.

Posted by: NALNAMSAM - not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine at March 13, 2018 04:41 PM (Fgc0C)

528 What is Fru Fru? Is it like FroYo?

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:40 PM (UDDXv)

More like chi-chi.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:41 PM (8gDQu)

529 475 I'd love a plausible explanation as to why, just before making that slow, 120 degree turn onto Elm St, the Secret Service agent standing on the back shelf of Kennedy's limo was told to stand down.
Posted by: SSBN 656 (G) at March 13, 2018 04:29 PM (jjaLl)

Who knows? Why did the carriers go out to sea before Pearl Harbor was bombed?

I flew on the last Pan Am 103 flight, the day before Lockerbie. I was scheduled to be on the fateful flight, but decided I was going to be pushed for time in the US, and so had my secretary move my flight up a day. No dead drops, no secret midnight meetings, no cryptic warnings. Just ... merest happenstance. That's all.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:41 PM (vP84t)

530 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:41 PM (vP84t)

Wow.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:42 PM (8gDQu)

531 There is a election for a congressional seat that won't be there under the new Democrat Black Robed Supreme Court, but will morph into another general Republican area.

Posted by: Skip at March 13, 2018 04:42 PM (aC6Sd)

532 Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 13, 2018 04:33 PM (fuK7c)

We had about 16,000 troops in Vietnam when Kennedy was assassinated . IiRC, we also had about 150 combat deaths that year.

Posted by: Sebastian Melmoth at March 13, 2018 04:43 PM (A4DFu)

533 524 Vietnam was a result of the collapse of French Indochina which started after WW2. The US believed in the domino theory, and some say the Vietnam War did in the end slow Communist expansion in South East Asia and other regions, certainly the Communists, paid a dear price. Eisenhower was involved in trying to support the French, and he later did put in advisors and Special Forces types.

He is certainly not to "blame" in my mind, the major escalation came later, under LBJ. Again, not a conspiracy, just mission creep. YMMV.
Posted by: Quint at March 13, 2018 04:40 PM (n13/j)

As much as many of those older "Liked Ike" (where is Vic?) not bombing the artillery at Dien Bien Phu, and not letting Nasser get topped at Suez, were bad calls.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 13, 2018 04:43 PM (ujg0T)

534 I'll always think something fishy happened with Obama and where he was born.

I think the problem was, the people leading this charge were not exactly our best and brightest and the whole movement was easily tarred.

And then there's he fact that the Supreme Court was never going to invalidate him even if there was smoking gun proof.

But also, I was amazed how many people thought Cruz being born in Canada was no big deal. If Obama had an American mother, but was born in Kenya, that's awfully close to Ted Cruz's story.

Posted by: Apache at March 13, 2018 04:43 PM (uc45P)

535 The C I A came up with the idea of conspiracy theory being bad specifically to discredit people questioning the Warren Commission.

Posted by: Jihadi at March 13, 2018 04:44 PM (twG1r)

536 Wow.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at March 13, 2018 04:42 PM (8gDQu)

Yeah. Weird feeling, actually. Doesn't seem real.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at March 13, 2018 04:44 PM (vP84t)

537 Jonah Goldberg fell for the Charge your iPhone in the microwave scam. When caught, he told everyone it had been struck by a lightening bolt.

Posted by: Nationalist Pikachu at March 13, 2018 04:44 PM (UDDXv)

538 533- As much as many of those older "Liked Ike" (where is
Vic?) not bombing the artillery at Dien Bien Phu, and not letting
Nasser get topped at Suez, were bad calls.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 13, 2018 04:43 PM (ujg0T)
yeah, maybe both cases involved a bit of that American Anti-Colonist attitude we are so proud of. Ike had a fine line to thread I guess.

Posted by: Quint at March 13, 2018 04:46 PM (n13/j)

539 The interesting fact of that era is how, when a Commie killed Jack and a PLO killed Bobby, Democrats went Stockholm and embraced both.

And they never came back.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at March 13, 2018 04:48 PM (Ndje9)

540 >> "Thought that the entire Obama admin and
campaign. I was agape. This guy? This little marxist piss boy? Never got
it. Looked like the population had been medicated." --Posted by: dagny

At just after midnight election day 2008 when it became clear that he had won I posted this single sentence on another political blog:

"Our long national nightmare has begun."

Posted by: Anonymous 7 at March 13, 2018 04:48 PM (Wv9jW)

541 538 533- As much as many of those older "Liked Ike" (where is
Vic?) not bombing the artillery at Dien Bien Phu, and not letting
Nasser get topped at Suez, were bad calls.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 13, 2018 04:43 PM (ujg0T)
yeah, maybe both cases involved a bit of that American Anti-Colonist attitude we are so proud of. Ike had a fine line to thread I guess.
Posted by: Quint at March 13, 2018 04:46 PM (n13/j)

The sad truth is that:

1. Colonialism was all too often better than what followed it, and

2. Colonialism was bankrupt and dying anyway, and at that point it was just a matter of having more friendly rather than more hostile regimes take power.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at March 13, 2018 04:50 PM (ujg0T)

542 To be fair, it wasn't exactly as clear how bad amphetamines were back then. The US military and intelligence handed those things out like tic tacs. SO yeah Kennedy was hopped up on them, but not like a known junkie.

That is what I thought , until I read Dr. Feelgood, and realized his drug problem was at a whole other level. And it was not just him. Kinda reminded me of Michale Jackson's doc, always around with a syringe and drug cocktail to cure what ails ya. I don't think he functioned without his shots.

I don't know how many pills he took, I remember mostly the injections. But yea, I think all docs handed out speed to housewives with weight problems...it was seen as benign.

Posted by: professor disarray, gumdrop gorilla channel at March 13, 2018 04:52 PM (/czxp)

543 btw, the Natural Born clause wasn't anti-immigrant. It was anti-dictator. They didn't want a Napoleon.

This could be a problem for the Democrat ticket of Khameni/Kristol 2020!(tm).

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at March 13, 2018 04:54 PM (Ndje9)

544 We had about 16,000 troops in Vietnam when Kennedy was assassinated . IiRC, we also had about 150 combat deaths that year.

Yes, and that's bad. We had fewer than 2,000, maybe fewer than 1,000 combat deaths at the point in time in 1965 when McNamara conceded that the war could not be won.

That's 56,000 American boys' lives wasted, not counting the damage to the ones who lived. I blame LBJ.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at March 13, 2018 04:56 PM (fuK7c)

545 Prof Discussion @ 526 ---

The grassy knoll thing turned to crap when I saw people running TOWARDS the hillock. Only combat troops and disciplined cops run TO the sound of the guns - citizens run away.

Posted by: Lurking Cynic at March 13, 2018 04:57 PM (29H8F)

546 Mueller was the perfect choice to head the Trump-Russia collusion investigation; his ability to doggedly stick to a task regardless of what the facts tell him was demonstrated in the Anthrax letter case.

For years ~~Captain Ahab~~ Mueller pursued the ~~White Whale~~ suspect named Steven Hatfill - despite the fact that there was no more evidence linking Hatfill to the case than could be found against an average antarctic Emperor Penguin. Hey, they both look pretty suspicious in tuxedos.

Has Mueller had the White House swimming pool drained to look for Top Secret decoder rings that Trump may have used in his Collusion with Putin? Leave no stone unexamined in your investigation Bob - the nation of the clueless left awaits your discoveries with baited breath.

Posted by: An Observation at March 13, 2018 04:58 PM (TPKPX)

547 Astronomy is science and astrology is bullshit, and I'm not an expert at either one. They both study the motion of the stars and planets. They both use data and make predictions. So how do I know one is real and the other bullshit? Easy. Astronomy makes predictions that can be proven true or false. Astrology makes predictions that can never be proven true OR false. That is because every imaginable outcome can be reconciled with the prediction.

Guys like Goldberg get very ...comfortable. They like to have the job they have - lots of people listen to them, but they have no responsibility for anything. One way to lose that sweet job is to be wrong. So over time they begin to soften their predictions, make them SEEM to be definitive, but in a kinda sorta way no one can call them on later. They are astrologists, telling people they will have a good Monday, not when the asteroid will hit the Earth.

He is not just a wannabe consistency theorist, he is a poseur, who is wrong all the time but wants to keep pretending he was right. So he says things in a ambiguous way...

He's they guy who keeps slipping on the banana peel and says "I meant that."

Posted by: Dean Wormer at March 13, 2018 05:04 PM (fftfA)

548 372 It's not the Unified Theory Of Russia Collusion at work; it's proof of the Wad Particle.

Noted carrier of the Jerk Wave? Carrying out its work via the principle of Jerk/Wad Equivalence?

Posted by: Anachronda at March 13, 2018 05:21 PM (v3pYe)

549 529 No dead drops, no secret midnight meetings, no cryptic warnings. Just ... merest happenstance. That's all

that's what you *want* us to think!

Posted by: Anachronda *twitch* *twitch* at March 13, 2018 05:24 PM (v3pYe)

550
525 What is Fru Fru? Is it like FroYo?

Little Rabbit Fru Fru
Hopping through the forest
Scooping up the field mice
Popping 'em on the head

Posted by: Anachronda *twitch* *twitch* at March 13, 2018 05:27 PM (v3pYe)

551 "We had to leave the gold standard because of Vietnam war spending."

The War on Poverty (fought by paying people to not work) had quite a bit to do with our fiscal problems.

But go ahead, argue military spending is less appropriate than subsidizing a leisure class.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 13, 2018 05:39 PM (lhV5b)

552 "That's 56,000 American boys' lives wasted, not counting the damage to the ones who lived. I blame LBJ."

Except it was St. Kennedy who got us into it.

And, lets be honest, the Soviets and Chinese could have stopped it any time theu wanted.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 13, 2018 05:41 PM (lhV5b)

553 "Russia had interfered with the election"

"Interfere" generally means physically obstruct or tamper with.
Or has the meaning of the word been so diluted to mean little to nothing while sounding nefarious -
Pepsi has been interfering in my beverage selection. They ran an ad.

Or cannot they let go of the initial very public allegation that Russians stole DNC and other prog e-mails and were to feed them to the Trump campaign.

IANAL, BUT, think it would be an easy case of misappropriation and embezzlement of gov funds by Mueller if he did not follow then publicly known leads on day one.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at March 13, 2018 06:24 PM (Eu5eZ)

554 The biggest shortcoming of all these NeverTrumpers is not their lack of sound judgment, which is in dangerously short supply, but their inability to never admit they were wrong about anything.

Too bad Jonah fell for that, too. I do like him and think he's a great writer, but his conduct regarding Trump has revealed him as another hack who's gladly ceded his brains just to appease his pride.

Posted by: Brass Bancroft at March 13, 2018 06:33 PM (y/d40)

555 There is a term for this "maximal claim plus retreat to defensible position" strategy, it's called motte and bailie. Maximal claim (motte) and then plausible retreat (bailie). Basically this is a version of the same thing: Trump collusion!!!!1!! and then retreat to the respectable position that "these are serious claims that need to be invesstigated." By the way GOldberg has been saying for a long time that his one job is "to tell the truth," which is like saying "you look very nice and by the way I'm being sincere."

Posted by: bjstuggzzz at March 13, 2018 08:05 PM (e44Qj)

556 Good grief! Does Jonah really think he is fooling anyone?

He refuses to admit that he and his buds were hanging on every word of the illegal leaks implying that the Pres colluded with Russia to steal the election from Hillary.

Let me remind him that we have read their tweets for over a year......and those tweets read like political porn.

These Never-trumpers were actually getting off on all those leaks claiming Trump was a traitor.

Posted by: Pam at March 13, 2018 08:31 PM (5FhpD)

557 Good God, that was savage, ace.

I really wish you would unleashed this can of whoopass on Twitter.

Posted by: Che Pizza at March 13, 2018 08:41 PM (mjirE)

558 Greetings:

Without a bit of self-awareness, the progressive media sheds alligator tears over the firing of a Secretary of State it didn't want from the beginning as in too ExxonMobil, no foreign policy experience.

Posted by: 11B40 at March 13, 2018 08:53 PM (evgyj)

559 Jonah Goldberg's"Liberal Fascism" is a must read but he is also a neocon never Trumper firmly embedded in the Bush camp. So as to his take on the whole Russia business, his opinion isn't worth taking a grain of salt with.

Posted by: H. Davis Wall at March 13, 2018 11:46 PM (v4K82)

560 It's gaslighting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aw3df-LpbY

Of course we have always been at war with Eastasia.

Posted by: Richard Watson at March 14, 2018 02:46 PM (dUUjK)

561 Conspiracy theorists never seem to take into account that people talk, or in DC parlance...leak. They can't help themselves.

Posted by: keyster at March 14, 2018 02:56 PM (nOhah)

562 Guys like Jonah and Eric just can not stand the man, Jonah I think because Trump offends his sensibilities and Eric because Trump had sex with Stormy Daniels! The only thing the Washington consensus has been reporting is that Trump and Russia colluded, there has been no counter availing opinion except for Rush and Coulter (not sure they are Washington consensus but they are part of pundit class) There has never been one iota of proof about this story and it was clearly hatched to cover Hillary if she lost and lay the ground work for impeachment in 2019. Now that maybe conspiratorial but there is a hell of a lot more evidence for those arguments than Trump and Putin sitting in a tree kissing. Andy McCarthy at NRO has done the most solid reporting/punditry work debunking any claim of collusion and Muller's sham investigation. Jonah and Eric have stated they did not believe collusion but they certainly have not been out front arguing against Muller or for Trump. They just do not like the guy and they think he will hurt conservatism I wish for just a minute these guys would think back to Reagan. Never Trumpers where never Reagan before it was cool, establishment types hated Reagan for his ability to 1)go around them and straight to the folks and tell it like it is (different style than Trump, same idea) 2) Reagan's belief in conservative values as a guiding light for all Republicans (Trump is not a traditional conservative but his policies and rhetoric are the most conservative since Reagan. Never Reagan liked George H. Bush, they insisted that he be put on the ballot with Reagan even though it was of no electoral advantage and Bush had trashed Reagan's economic plan in the debates because they wanted one of theirs at the dinner table. The Bushes (decent people for sure) is what cost us the Presidency in 92 (read my lips fuck you I'm going to raise your taxes) and 2008 (read my lips fuck you I'm going to invade Iraq and then mishandle the hell out of it and bailout my pals at Goldman Sachs with your money) costing us 2008. The net result we got cum stains in the Oval office and a damn fine attempt at destroying the very best health care system in the world. Jonah and Eric are fine people, but like the Bushes and those establishment types who hated Reagan ( and before that Goldwater) they fail to see the bigger picture of a Trump presidency because they are too busy player hating. Trump is the continuation or rebooting of the Reagan revolution, if Trump succeeds it may have an affect of making Democrats a marginal party forever!

Posted by: Mark Wilson at March 14, 2018 03:40 PM (nFEwp)

563 Remember, the position of NTers such as Goldberg during the general was that Trump and Hillary were EQUALLY bad. This was always a convenient cop-out to avoid having to make an affirmative assertion one way or the other.

Posted by: Stout at March 14, 2018 03:55 PM (9dGfC)

564 My daydream:
Tools like Jonah Goldberg, David Brooks, and Susan Rice running naked for their lives south on I-95, covered in tar and feathers.

Posted by: josej at March 14, 2018 03:56 PM (gqxnI)

565 "177 I agree. He's a L.A. prosecutor, and I doubt he attends many DC dinner parties. However, he is simpatico with their cause.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at March 13, 2018 03:45 PM (pvjTE)

Probably decided to stop standing up against the Left after he'd been SWAT'd be He Who Shall Not Be Named (under penalty of Lawfare)."

The irony here is pretty ironic.

Because, you see, you're leaving that comment on the blog of someone who paid money to that very same He Who Shall Not Be Named.

Meanwhile, the Fourth Circuit just affirmed the dismissal of HWSNBN against me.

So who decided to stop standing up against the left again?

I know: this comment will be deleted. But reading, on this blog of all places, about how the HWSNBN episode shows I don't stand up to the left is just a bit much.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 12:08 AM (1F7J/)

566 Yup. Ace gave the convicted bomber money in a settlement. At least the convicted bomber says he did, in a comment at Wikipedia. I know the terms of the settlement are supposed to be confidential. But the bomber says 12 people settled and paid him money. So I guess Ace is one of them.

So please. Keep telling me about how I won't stand up against the left because I got SWATted.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 12:11 AM (1F7J/)

567 Did you stand up, Pat?

Or was it your free lawyers that stood up?

Posted by: School Marm at March 15, 2018 12:57 AM (IXazr)

568 Oh, and the irony here is pretty ironic.

Patterico, the biggest Poo Swah of blockers on Twitter, accuses Ace of deleting comments.

Your comment remains up, pal.

Posted by: School Marm at March 15, 2018 01:01 AM (IXazr)

569 "Did you stand up, Pat?

Or was it your free lawyers that stood up?"

Ace had the same free lawyers, but yes, I owe them a large debt of gratitude.

I guess you're right: I didn't stand up at all. Only the guy who paid off the bomber is the real stand-up guy. According to him, I should be "ashamed" of myself.

Brilliant analysis.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 01:02 AM (1F7J/)

570 "Your comment remains up, pal."

For now. I doubt it will be for long. "Pal."

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 01:03 AM (1F7J/)

571 Patterico and his prevarications....champion of FREE SPEECH!

LOL!!

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 08:55 AM (abLEI)

572 Tyrant grasping his Bible with white knuckles..

Hypocrite to the 10th power.

Pattericocococo..

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 08:58 AM (abLEI)

573 Ace

Want some Patterico poo?

Email

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 08:59 AM (abLEI)

574 Patterico, the biggest Poo Swah of blockers on Twitter, accuses Ace of deleting comments.

Your comment remains up, pal.
-------
Your comment remains up, pal."

For now. I doubt it will be for long. "Pal."
------
And yet they do. Unlike at the P blog. See how this works, P? Project much?

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 09:35 AM (EsHMF)

575 http://patterico.com/2018/03/13/was-russia-the-reason-for-rexit/#comment-2097674

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 10:46 AM (abLEI)

576 "And yet they do. Unlike at the P blog. See how this works, P? Project much?"

Right. I delete comments about Brett Kimberlin because he frightens me. Oh wait. I don't. That's here.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 10:59 AM (1F7J/)

577 Look: I'm not interested in a days-long argument over this. If you support Ace's paying money to a convicted bomber like Brett Kimberlin so he can sue people like me, then have fun with that.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 11:02 AM (1F7J/)

578 And maybe he didn't. After all, the settlement was "confidential" (even though Kimberlin is freely talking about the terms). But Ace took down content about Kimberlin. That, we can all see with our own eyes.

And I let it go, until he explained to me about how I need to be "ashamed" of myself because something something Donald Fucking Trump.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 11:05 AM (1F7J/)

579 I'm not the one who chose to make some stupid controversy about Donald Trump personal. But if we're really going to do that, and have a dick-measuring contest about who bows down to the left, I think settlements with leftist convicted bombers are part of that conversation. A conversation I didn't start.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 11:11 AM (1F7J/)

580 "Right. I delete comments about Brett Kimberlin because he frightens me. Oh wait. I don't. That's here."

No, you just ban people from commenting because they upset you. Kinda worse if you ask me. At least Ace, not being lawyer scum and thus not savvy about the insane rules of the games y'all play by, has a legitimate fear of being sucked into more lawyer scum games because of this. Your daring to stand up like Superman with your cape blowing in the wind on this issue parallels what you accuse Ace of. Gimme a break.

Look, I appreciate what you had to go through with this person but in a sense, being of the law, you kinda brought some of it on yourself. Regular folks like Ace, not so much.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 11:15 AM (EsHMF)

581 "I'm not the one who chose to make some stupid controversy about Donald Trump personal."

Oh, for the love of God gimme a break. No, not between you and Ace perhaps, but you constantly throw up posts and do personal attacks on people who support DT, even when they do so reluctantly.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 11:16 AM (EsHMF)

582 "stand up like Superman with your cape blowing in the wind .."

His hypocrisy is like kryptonite.

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 11:20 AM (abLEI)

583 You've burned what credibility you could have had Patsy.

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 11:23 AM (abLEI)

584 "His hypocrisy is like kryptonite."

That's the thing about hypocrisy. Hell, we're all hypocrites. It all depends on how you slice it. Show me a man who says he's no hypocrite and I'll show you a hypocrite. For me, people who make such a big deal about such things without putting serious consideration to each other's unique situation...well, that's kinda ok for normal people but when lawyers, very influential lawyers no less, do it repeatedly and extensively, we've got serious problems.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 11:31 AM (EsHMF)

585 A confession of hypocrisy tends to clean the chalkboard but denial...after a while becomes pathological.

Posted by: Charlie Barker at March 15, 2018 12:16 PM (abLEI)

586 Yeah...also like how P drags the name of the guy we can't name into this argument, which is really about being #NeverTrump and has zilch to do with that other guy. P does this, IMNSHO, because lawyer scum like that know that it will kill any argument from Ace because Ace has much more to fear from discussing that than P does. Really quite cowardly on P's part when you think about it.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 01:27 PM (EsHMF)

587 "Look, I appreciate what you had to go through with this person but in a sense, being of the law, you kinda brought some of it on yourself"

Brilliant analysis. You nailed it.

Posted by: Patterico at March 15, 2018 03:21 PM (PWFP/)

588 "Brilliant analysis. You nailed it."

You brought BK into this argument without justification, as I stated above. And as others have pointed out, you are being very unfair in doing so. Don't cry when others push back. You're coming unglued. Take the hint.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 15, 2018 04:45 PM (EsHMF)

589 What's funny is that patty boy is going to wind up banned if he keeps posting here. Oh not because ace banned him or anything. But because he's a dipshit and will continue to post on this thread and get caught in the auto ban system.

Posted by: Buzzion at March 15, 2018 05:01 PM (lKs2v)

590 Patterico stood up to a convicted bomber and won, the same person Ace settled with. I understand why Ace did that, but for Ace to single out Patterico now for criticism and shame is disappointing.

If Ace wants everyone to work together, he should remember that when he had the chance to fight the good fight ... he settled.

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 12:49 PM (kv+Eo)

591 "but for Ace to single out Patterico now for criticism and shame is disappointing. "

And for P to go full Burger King on Ace, knowing what P knows about the situation, was completely unnecessary. P could have (hell, he's a lawyer for c*sakes) defended himself without having to go there. But he did go there. Because deep down inside, and it is coming out in his rants and his bannings and GFY's of/to even his (apparently now former) friends just what sort he really is. More concerned about himself and his reputations (which ironically he is actively destroying) than the issues.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 16, 2018 01:03 PM (WQfDg)

592 I don't understand your comment. Is that a rant?

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 01:07 PM (kv+Eo)

593 I don't understand your response. Is it a cop-out?

Posted by: RogPodge at March 16, 2018 01:27 PM (WQfDg)

594 You said:

"And for P to go full Burger King on Ace, knowing what P knows about the situation, was completely unnecessary. P could have (hell, he's a lawyer for c*sakes) defended himself without having to go there. But he did go there. Because deep down inside, and it is coming out in his rants and his bannings and GFY's of/to even his (apparently now former) friends just what sort he really is. More concerned about himself and his reputations (which ironically he is actively destroying) than the issues. "

What does going "full Burger King" mean?

Patterico stated the facts of what happened. How is that wrong?

I read Patterico's Pontifications and have for a long time. He rarely bans people. Do you read his website?

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 01:36 PM (kv+Eo)

595 Do you understand how hard it is to continue to fight a really bad guy, alone, after your friends settled? Patterico did that and he understood why others decided to settle, but it's hard to accept having your character criticized by one of those friends.

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 01:49 PM (kv+Eo)

596 Burger King == BK == that guy. It was a joke reference. I should have known you wouldn't get it. My bad.

Yes, I understand. And as said previously, I respect P's efforts doing so. But both you and P and many of P's sycophants (BIRM) refuse to acknowledge that most of us do acknowledge this. That wasn't the point. The point is, and I notice how you choose to continue to focus on this straw man, that by defending himself against BK, as noble as that is, that does not make P's character bullet proof. Nor are P's and A's positions anywhere near equivalent.

See, this is the problem with you lawyer scum. It's all arguments all the time with you people. You don't grasp that there's a real, nasty world out there that doesn't GAF what words on paper mean. Sure, respectable people do. But we are waaaay past that. And you also fail terribly at understanding that it is the law, and lawfare specifically, that created the BK problem in the first place. But hey, maybe even more laws will solve the problem. Will make more work for lawyers, that's for certain. Which is why you NeverTrumpers will ever understand why good, decent people, regardless of their feelings about DT as a whole, support him in what he is trying to do.

Tell me something...have you ever had long talks with anyone who fought in a war? In real combat, with their real lives on the line? Shot at every day?
Put in terribly difficult moral quandaries? Do you understand that there's a law outside your collective scribblings? That your laws, and by extension even your high-falutin' morals, only work successfully if they acknowledge these real world laws?

Posted by: RogPodge at March 16, 2018 02:06 PM (WQfDg)

597 Thank you for explaining Burger King reference. Now let me explain some things that may help you,vtoo:

I voted for Trump because I live in Texas and I could see Trump was going to do less well than prior Republicans and I want Texas to stay red.

I am a retired lawyer. I am very conservative.

My father and Uncle served in WWII. They were pilots in the European theater and killed people from the air and in hand-to-hand combat. I am very proud of them. My father sent me to law school because he said he was fighting for civilization, espevially our Constitution and laws.

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 02:13 PM (kv+Eo)

598 Thank you for your responses. I enjoyed talking to you, Rog.

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 02:15 PM (kv+Eo)

599 While I appreciate your father and Uncle's service, same here except all infantry GIs. Yet in a typical lawyerly fashion I notice while you gave all appearances of addressing my question, you did not answer my question.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 16, 2018 02:20 PM (WQfDg)

600 "Thank you for your responses. I enjoyed talking to you, Rog."

This is payback for the Burger King thing isn't it? NP, I give you props for it either way.

Posted by: RogPodge at March 16, 2018 02:40 PM (WQfDg)

601 Hi RogPodge,

I wasn't trying to avoid a discussion. I had to leave to do real life stuff and I'm not sure how much people check old threads like this.

I am sorry if I did not answer your questions. I thought I did. Let me try again.

You said: " The point is, and I notice how you choose to continue to focus on this straw man, that by defending himself against BK, as noble as that is, that does not make P's character bullet proof. Nor are P's and A's positions anywhere near equivalent. "

I don't think Patterico is saying he's proven himself in battle so his character is unimpeachable (but he should be able to show what he's done as evidence of his character). I think his point, and I know my point, is that if Ace is going to claim that Patterico "hides [his] beliefs with equivocation, evasion, and insinuation," then it's fair game to point out Ace settled with a leftist instead of fighting like Patterico.

I know it's a horrible world. It's a world where people kill each other over turf. A world where innocent children are put at risk by SWATters for fun or to settle online grudges. A world where terrorism has become acceptable to Some people of it helps their side. I also know that strength is vital but, to me, real strength doesn't come through internet bullies.

Yes, I have talked at length to my father, Uncle, and many cousins who served. I know they are the people who make it possible for me to have the freedoms i enjoy, but I don't share your disdain for law and lawyers. There is a role for ideas as well as strength, and both make America what it is.

Posted by: DRJ at March 16, 2018 05:00 PM (kv+Eo)

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