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No, Rush Limbaugh Did Not Say That the Leftist Worldview Drove Robin Williams to Suicide
I can't chastise the media too much over this because when I heard his remarks -- out of context -- I also thought Limbaugh was saying Williams' pessimistic, everything-is-awful Leftist worldview contributed, somehow, to his suicide.
I thought that suggestion (and understand now, I am specifically saying Limbaugh did not intend this suggestion) was both ignorant and weird. Ignorant, of course, because only a complete imbecile would not know at least a little about depression. And weird, because it suggests an anti-humanly worldview in which there is literally no emotion, no impulse, no fear, no joy which is not in some way directly sprung from ideology. I was kind of shocked that Limbaugh would say such a thing. I think he often seems too ideological, but certainly he's very intelligent -- certainly he's not ignorant. Certainly he is not unaware of depression, and certainly he doesn't think it's "just something the Liberal-Psychological Complex is making up." In fact, having listened to his remarks in context as well as his explication of what he'd meant, I think it's pretty clear he's telling the truth, and did not mean to suggest such a dumb thing. He set up the whole segment as a discussion about the politics of the coverage of Robin Williams' death. The media coverage of it-- not the suicide itself. His first few remarks about it were a very fair criticism of the media's maudlin celebration of him, and heaping praise and sympathy on him. Why is that a problem? Well, think about it: There are tens of thousands of suicidal people in the world at any moment. What is the Very Last Thing you could possibly want to say to such a person? That you'll be praised as a wonderful human being who just felt the pain of the world too intensely, and that your decision to take your own life (leaving behind emotionally-slain children!!!!) is completely understandable and even, if not quite justifiable, certainly deserving of sympathetic respect. The problem with giving this sort of adulation to a suicide is not because we don't want to praise the person who killed himself. The problem is that we don't wish to suggest to the tens of thousands of still-living potential suicides that we support them in their decision. This is a dicey thing. On one hand, we do not wish to sound callous about someone who, reportedly and very plausibly, lived a less-than-happy life due to clinical depression. Our hearts go out to such persons-- as they go out to anyone living his life with a serious burden. But on the other hand, we must not be so praiseworthy as to give encouragement to other people currently living right on the edge! Limbaugh noted, quite properly, this tension, this ambiguity. How should we talk about suicides? To call them "cowards" -- as Shep Smith did -- is to be cruel to they themselves (though, being dead, they can hardly feel the sting of the epithet), and yet it is also to be kind to those who have suicidal thoughts, and more importantly, to the families of those having suicidal thoughts. We do not wish to put those families through the living nightmare of a suicide. For the rest of their lives, they will wonder: "What did I miss? Could I have done more? Was it all my fault?" A suicide is actually a murder in which the killer makes his own family and close friends self-suspected conspirators in the murder for the rest of their lives. So yes, we do wish to exhibit normal human sympathy for the dead. But on the other hand, we do not want to encourage more people to kill themselves, thereby put more innocent victims (such as Robin Williams' daughter Zelda) through the never-ending pain of always wondering, "Was I actually responsible for my father's self-murder?" It's tricky, and people come down on this in different ways. Limbaugh found that the media was being too praiseworthy of Williams, too understanding, and thus, with every good intention in the world, they wind up giving the signal that it's really okay to kill yourself, if that's where your demons drive you. Do they intend that? Of course not! They intend nothing so terrible as that. But this is the natural consequence of being too effusive about a suicide. As I said, it's Tricky. Sometimes by being cruel, you wind up being kind. And sometimes by being kind, you wind up being cruel. At any rate, Limbaugh then went on to make his remarks about the "leftwing worldview." Here's what he said (but remember the running context of looking at the politics of media coverage of the suicide, not the actual suicide itself). Also note that the below is a transcript of Limbaugh commenting upon the remarks he made the day before.Here's what I said yesterday that's being totally distorted, taken out of context -- and predictably so, by the way. I should have known yesterday. I should have given you a heads-up it was gonna happen. Here it is. RUSH ARCHIVE: So our last caller from Des Plaines, Illinois, wanted to know, "What is the politics in the coverage of the suicide of Robin Williams?" RUSH: Stop the tape. RUSH ARCHIVE: Well, I believe there is some. RUSH: Stop the tape. Did you hear what I said? "'What is the politics in the coverage of the suicide.'" Not, "What is the politics in the suicide." And that's what I addressed. Resume tape. RUSH ARCHIVE: But I don't think that the politics is driving it. I think there was, on the part of media and Hollywood, genuine affection for the guy that is driving it, but there is politics. If you notice the coverage is focused on how much he had, but it wasn't enough. "He had everything, everything that you would think would make you happy. But it didn't." Now, what is the left's worldview in general? What is it? If you had to attach not a philosophy but an attitude to a leftist worldview, it's one of pessimism and darkness, sadness. They're never happy, are they? They're always angry about something. No matter what they get, they're always angry. They are animated in large part by the false promises of America, because the promises of America are not for everyone, as we see each and every day. I mean, right here there's a story on the Fox News website. Do you know, it says right here, that the real reasons that Robin Williams killed himself are he was embarrassed at having to take television roles after a sterling movie career. He had to take movie roles that were beneath him, sequels and so forth, and he finally had to do television just to get a paycheck because he was in so much financial distress. He'd had some divorces that ripped up his net worth, and he had a big ranch in Napa that he couldn't afford any longer and had to put up for sale, and a house in Tiburon that he couldn't afford anymore. This is all what's in the Fox News story. He had it all, but he had nothing. He made everybody else laugh but was miserable inside. I mean, it fits a certain picture, or a certain image that the left has. Talk about low expectations and general unhappiness and so forth. Right here it says that one the contributing factors to Robin Williams deciding to kill himself was "survivor's guilt." It's in the headline.What Limbaugh is saying is that the left has a particular worldview -- none of your money or accomplishments mean anything, etc. -- and are using that worldview to frame the story of Robin Williams. That is, they're applying their narrative to the event. He's not talking about the suicide itself, but about the media's applying their "leftist worldview" to create a narrative. Is that a good point? Um... no. The media's narratives here are the easy, stupid, obvious narratives -- "The man who had it all felt he had nothing;" "The clown who made us laugh was crying on the inside" -- that are so stupid and basic that they're very much sub-political. You don't need a political worldview to come up with a painfully hack storyline. Never explain by ideology what can be explained by the Rule of Easy and Dumb: In Modern America, Dumb is Easy and Easy is Holy! But while you can criticize him for making a weak point, Limbaugh really shouldn't be criticized for a point he didn't make, or at least did not intend to make. I would also note that his "leftist worldview" remarks connect up, sort of, with his initial criticism of the media for being so effusively pro-Williams as to be effectively pro-more-families-ripped-to-pieces-by-suicide. Imagine if the media had dropped its stupid, thoughtless Let Us Praise This Man Because He Was a Celebrity impulse and instead got really into the topics of depression, the possibility of cure (which most depressives won't acknowledge, because depression makes you think that you are doomed forever), and, most importantly, the painful and life-changing impact of a suicide on his family. Which would be the more thoughtful, useful, and pro-social message, as between those two options? But no: We get days of "Robin Williams, the Magical Sprite Who Was Too Magical For This Base World." * One more point: I've had 48 hours to think about this, then I had an hour to pre-write it in my head, and then write it, and then lightly edit it. Writers need to admit the obvious: We writers have much more control over our words than someone speaking (for three hours) without a script, extemporaneously. The various scolds in the print media might do the world a favor and consider their own extemporaneous speech -- not the polished product of their writing -- is not always the most precise thing, and is frequently open to misinterpretation because, of course, it takes time and patience to get the words on the page to precisely match the thoughts in your head. This time is not available when speaking live, off-the-cuff. There are naturally going to be imprecisions and ambiguities. Writers should stop seizing upon these in order to read them with the most outrageous and uncharitable meaning possible.
* The worst message I keep seeing is that He inspired us. Rack up the clip from Dead Poets Society. Do we really want to push the "he inspired us" storyline about a man who hung himself while his wife slept in the next room? Update: A fairly solid Slate article criticizes this kneejerk feel-goodery from the Academy of Motion Picture Sciences (SCIENCES!!!):
Genie, you're free. pic.twitter.com/WjA9QuuldD
— The Academy (@TheAcademy) August 12, 2014Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
1stish?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 04:37 PM (HVff2)
2
1stish?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 04:37 PM (HVff2)
3
first
Posted by: chicken at August 13, 2014 04:38 PM (sDapq)
Posted by: egg at August 13, 2014 04:39 PM (sDapq)
5
One has to take into account the MFM is dumber than a post and like controversial statements, otherwise known as lies, that denigrate the conservatives or Republicans. (they think both are the same)
A lot of people suffer from depression, drugs and alcohol make it worse when you are recovering after a bender.
A lot of people suffer from depression, drugs and alcohol make it worse when you are recovering after a bender.
Posted by: Vic at August 13, 2014 04:39 PM (T2V/1)
6
I'll get the others.
Posted by: egg at August 13, 2014 04:39 PM (sDapq)
7
Now if you want POLITICS in Robin Williams' death, go look at that schmuck from the MN GOP and his tweets...
Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (XO6WW)
8
I will go out on a limb here and say:
Lauren Bacall was vastly more significant as a movie star than Robin Williams. yet her death is barely getting mentioned at all. Sad.
Kind of reminds me of when Groucho Marx died -- just three days after Elvis Presley died.
Guess what happened? Groucho's death went almost completely unnoticed in the post-Elvis hysteria. Even though Groucho was a major figure in American cultural history.
Lauren Bacall was vastly more significant as a movie star than Robin Williams. yet her death is barely getting mentioned at all. Sad.
Kind of reminds me of when Groucho Marx died -- just three days after Elvis Presley died.
Guess what happened? Groucho's death went almost completely unnoticed in the post-Elvis hysteria. Even though Groucho was a major figure in American cultural history.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (izqG1)
9
Mt God. It's full of words!
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2014 04:42 PM (Kc2xY)
10
I'll boil it to two words "sad clown".
In fact, if you Google "sad clown" right now, the first ten hits are stories about Robin Williams.
In fact, if you Google "sad clown" right now, the first ten hits are stories about Robin Williams.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:42 PM (6Q9g2)
11
Suicide when you have children who still count on you is about as selfish an act as I can imagine.
Posted by: Fyscyl Clyff at August 13, 2014 04:42 PM (kEgxt)
12
Do we actually know RW suffered clinical depression? Are we accepting facts not admitted into evidence?
That asked. I will say as I've said before I Feel for his family. And I think RW was selfish. He had the means to battle depression or drug/alcohol abuse. He chose not to and that is sad.
That asked. I will say as I've said before I Feel for his family. And I think RW was selfish. He had the means to battle depression or drug/alcohol abuse. He chose not to and that is sad.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 04:43 PM (HVff2)
13
Last night the glow from the media lights around Robin Williams' house was so bright you could (and I did) see it from many miles away. TV crews from all over the world.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:43 PM (izqG1)
14
He'd had some divorces that ripped up his net worth, and he had a big
ranch in Napa that he couldn't afford any longer and had to put up for
sale, and a house in Tiburon that he couldn't afford anymore.
I have driven through Tiburon before. It is one of the most expensive housing areas in CA, and that is saying something because everything there is over-priced.
And the taxes are in the stratosphere.
ranch in Napa that he couldn't afford any longer and had to put up for
sale, and a house in Tiburon that he couldn't afford anymore.
I have driven through Tiburon before. It is one of the most expensive housing areas in CA, and that is saying something because everything there is over-priced.
And the taxes are in the stratosphere.
Posted by: Vic at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (T2V/1)
15
Lauren Bacall more significant to filmmaking overall, zombie?
I dunno about that. I can believe that plenty of people liked her and her movies and her era better.
I dunno about that. I can believe that plenty of people liked her and her movies and her era better.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (LvYhO)
16
#8
I think there's room to argue about Bacall's significance in relation to Williams (they're different, and from different eras, obviously), but she was 89 years old at the time of her death, which was of natural causes.
Williams suicide (as most do) was much more of a shock/surprise.
I think there's room to argue about Bacall's significance in relation to Williams (they're different, and from different eras, obviously), but she was 89 years old at the time of her death, which was of natural causes.
Williams suicide (as most do) was much more of a shock/surprise.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (6Q9g2)
17
Suicide when you have children who still count on you is about as selfish an act as I can imagine.
It's a strong #2.
It's a strong #2.
Posted by: Woody Allen at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (Kc2xY)
18
I saw The Magic Sprite open for Captain and Tennille in Oxnard, California in 1974.
Posted by: hmitchell3rd at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (3YCXd)
19
OT, but too good to resist:
OT: This guy would make a good Moron. Here's his rant which is funny, poignant, and true.
http://tinyurl.com/pzjb4wt
OT: This guy would make a good Moron. Here's his rant which is funny, poignant, and true.
http://tinyurl.com/pzjb4wt
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 04:44 PM (XUKZU)
20
I Feel for his family. And I think RW was selfish. He had the means to battle depression or drug/alcohol abuse. He chose not to and that is sad.
Evidence is that he did battle it, he just lost.
Evidence is that he did battle it, he just lost.
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2014 04:45 PM (Kc2xY)
21
1,692 words.
Posted by: dogfish at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM (1vYi0)
22
-
~ Feelin' Seven-Up, I'm Feelin' Seven-Up ..
What? Why the happy song? I enjoy playing a sad clown who plays a happy clown. It's a Victor/Victoria type of deal.
Speaking of which: Who's up for some hookers and blow?
~ Feelin' Seven-Up, I'm Feelin' Seven-Up ..
What? Why the happy song? I enjoy playing a sad clown who plays a happy clown. It's a Victor/Victoria type of deal.
Speaking of which: Who's up for some hookers and blow?
Posted by: Pagliacci at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM (4CVLy)
Posted by: soothern man at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM (xvH+/)
24
These stories are easier to ignore if you have a passing familiarity with the MSM and internet 'news' in general.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM (4h0z0)
25
12
Do we actually know RW suffered clinical depression? Are we accepting facts not admitted into evidence?
========
I believe Williams has said as much himself, and IIRC he'd also admitted to previous thoughts of suicide. His close friends and family have said he had a history of depression. Williams' substance abuse history with cocaine, and then alcohol are also a matter of the public record.
So yes, I think we do "know" this.
Do we actually know RW suffered clinical depression? Are we accepting facts not admitted into evidence?
========
I believe Williams has said as much himself, and IIRC he'd also admitted to previous thoughts of suicide. His close friends and family have said he had a history of depression. Williams' substance abuse history with cocaine, and then alcohol are also a matter of the public record.
So yes, I think we do "know" this.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM (6Q9g2)
26
A suicide is actually a murder in which the killer makes his own family and close friends self-suspected conspirators in the murder for the rest of their lives.
Whoa. That's freakin deep, and true.
Whoa. That's freakin deep, and true.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 04:47 PM (QupBk)
27
I listened to this whole segment live. It was prompted by a caller who asked him if he thought the coverage had a political slant. I agree wholeheartedly that the bit you excerpted above was weak sauce - especially coming from Rush. He should have stopped after saying politics isn't driving this.
In real time, I thought the caller was trying to set him up. I may have been correct.
In real time, I thought the caller was trying to set him up. I may have been correct.
Posted by: Muad'dib at August 13, 2014 04:47 PM (sjdRT)
28
Of course Rush is scorned by the left. If you tell a lie long enough it becomes the truth or something like that.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 04:47 PM (HVff2)
29
I have driven through Tiburon before. It is one of
the most expensive housing areas in CA, and that is saying something
because everything there is over-priced.
Zillow shows his house estimated at $6.5M. Some nice photos of the
deck and pool too.
the most expensive housing areas in CA, and that is saying something
because everything there is over-priced.
Zillow shows his house estimated at $6.5M. Some nice photos of the
deck and pool too.
Posted by: The Hillary at August 13, 2014 04:47 PM (knfPD)
30
15 Lauren Bacall more significant to filmmaking overall, zombie?
I dunno about that. I can believe that plenty of people liked her and her movies and her era better.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone
Every scene she was ever in felt like a classic scene for the ages.
Robin Williams, on the other hand (he was concede even himself) was in a constant stream of trivial and also-ran junk films.
This is no comment on him as a person, more a comment on the low-quality of most contemporary filmmaking.
Patch Adams, Club Paradise, Death to Smoochy, License to Wed -- a long series of turkeys, with the occasional gem here and there.
I dunno about that. I can believe that plenty of people liked her and her movies and her era better.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone
Every scene she was ever in felt like a classic scene for the ages.
Robin Williams, on the other hand (he was concede even himself) was in a constant stream of trivial and also-ran junk films.
This is no comment on him as a person, more a comment on the low-quality of most contemporary filmmaking.
Patch Adams, Club Paradise, Death to Smoochy, License to Wed -- a long series of turkeys, with the occasional gem here and there.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:48 PM (izqG1)
31
Kind of reminds me of when Groucho Marx died -- just three days after Elvis Presley died.
Or Farah Fawcett the same day as Michael Jackson.
Or Farah Fawcett the same day as Michael Jackson.
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262 at August 13, 2014 04:48 PM (9Bdcz)
32
12
We don't "know" it beyond a reasonable doubt, but he and his family had spoken of his clinical depression before. And then, when someone kills themselves absent some huge motivator like life in prison or months of pain in terminal illness, that's a pretty good indicator of clinical depression, I think.
He also had battled addiction, with several different rehab programs, so it's just not true that he had money to fight his addictions but chose not to. Sometimes people fight the addiction, and they still lose.
We don't "know" it beyond a reasonable doubt, but he and his family had spoken of his clinical depression before. And then, when someone kills themselves absent some huge motivator like life in prison or months of pain in terminal illness, that's a pretty good indicator of clinical depression, I think.
He also had battled addiction, with several different rehab programs, so it's just not true that he had money to fight his addictions but chose not to. Sometimes people fight the addiction, and they still lose.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 04:48 PM (LvYhO)
33
I see that some blogger I never heard of got into trouble by stating that suicide is a choice. Of course, he is absolutely right. every time an addict sticks a needle in his arm it is a choice. there may have been psychological or physical reasons for RW t do what he did but it was his choice.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 04:48 PM (XUKZU)
34
20
I Feel for his family. And I think RW was selfish. He had the means
to battle depression or drug/alcohol abuse. He chose not to and that is
sad.
Evidence is that he did battle it, he just lost.
===
Yes, he had just ended a stint in rehab for alcoholism relapse. I actually remember hearing about this in the news 1-2 weeks ago, and so yes, he was at least trying to work things out.
Williams also mentioned having suicidal thoughts in the past, so again, this was something he had dealt with before.
I Feel for his family. And I think RW was selfish. He had the means
to battle depression or drug/alcohol abuse. He chose not to and that is
sad.
Evidence is that he did battle it, he just lost.
===
Yes, he had just ended a stint in rehab for alcoholism relapse. I actually remember hearing about this in the news 1-2 weeks ago, and so yes, he was at least trying to work things out.
Williams also mentioned having suicidal thoughts in the past, so again, this was something he had dealt with before.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:49 PM (6Q9g2)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 13, 2014 04:49 PM (1Mxs7)
36
Some of the most manically depressed people I've know have all been liberals. They want you to share in their depression usually.
Posted by: The Hillary at August 13, 2014 04:50 PM (knfPD)
37
I have to admit that I have never had a suicidal thought in my life. Murder, sure, suicide never.
It makes it hard to relate.
It makes it hard to relate.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 04:50 PM (QupBk)
38
I don't suppose there's anything surprising about Limbaugh being inaccurately quoted to make him look bad.
Posted by: mallfly at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (bJm7W)
39
63 is still too young to die. 89 you've had a good run. Bacall isn't getting play because she lived a long life, and died when it was her time.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (32Ze2)
40
They'll feed on RW's suicide for awhile before moving on to the next Kardashian fingernail breakage story.
Posted by: kathysaysso at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (jPT60)
41
Remember when I had a hissy fit on air to convince people the U.S. doesn't torture? I lied.
Posted by: Shep Smithers at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (ZFu22)
42
I have to admit that I have never had a suicidal thought in my life. Murder, sure, suicide never.
It makes it hard to relate.
Posted by: toby928(C)
Amen.
It makes it hard to relate.
Posted by: toby928(C)
Amen.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (Pvw07)
43
OK, cut to the bottom line. Is the movie R rated or not? Any skin?
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 04:51 PM (0FSuD)
44
The coverage of mass shooters creates more mass shooters.
Posted by: steevy at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (zqvg6)
45
Evidence is that he did battle it, he just lost.
Posted by: garrett
I tend to disagree with you. But, he's gone. I hope that God has mercy on his soul. I hope that his family copes with his passing and that the pain subsides and the good memories of their loved one triumphs.
Posted by: garrett
I tend to disagree with you. But, he's gone. I hope that God has mercy on his soul. I hope that his family copes with his passing and that the pain subsides and the good memories of their loved one triumphs.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (HVff2)
Posted by: Circle Jerks at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (Kc2xY)
47
And the taxes are in the stratosphere.
If it's true that one of the reasons for his continuing depression was an inability to keep his home, this gives new meaning to "death tax".
If it's true that one of the reasons for his continuing depression was an inability to keep his home, this gives new meaning to "death tax".
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (J0IP0)
48
The only Robin Williams movies I ever enjoyed were Popeye and One-Hour Photo. Really.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (izqG1)
Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at August 13, 2014 04:52 PM (TIIx5)
50
Dog Bites Itself!
Posted by: news at eleven at August 13, 2014 04:53 PM (iqdIm)
51
33
I see that some blogger I never heard of got into trouble by stating
that suicide is a choice. Of course, he is absolutely right. every
time an addict sticks a needle in his arm it is a choice. there may
have been psychological or physical reasons for RW t do what he did but
it was his choice.
=====
By definition, an addict is someone who no longer has normal control over their behavior. So yes, an alcoholic is making a "choice" every time they have a drink, but they're making on what might be termed a non-level field. IE, they're brain and chemistry are strongly influencing that choice to the point where they have little ability to alter it. Of course we hold addicts responsible for their behavior. . .that's the only rational thing to do. . .but we also understand that the behavior is being altered by a physiologic bad relationship with chemical substances.
Ditto with depressive suicide. Yes, Williams made the choice to kill himself, but he did so in a mentally ill state. He probably did *NOT* make any conscious choice to create the depressive background that led to his suicidal ideation.
I see that some blogger I never heard of got into trouble by stating
that suicide is a choice. Of course, he is absolutely right. every
time an addict sticks a needle in his arm it is a choice. there may
have been psychological or physical reasons for RW t do what he did but
it was his choice.
=====
By definition, an addict is someone who no longer has normal control over their behavior. So yes, an alcoholic is making a "choice" every time they have a drink, but they're making on what might be termed a non-level field. IE, they're brain and chemistry are strongly influencing that choice to the point where they have little ability to alter it. Of course we hold addicts responsible for their behavior. . .that's the only rational thing to do. . .but we also understand that the behavior is being altered by a physiologic bad relationship with chemical substances.
Ditto with depressive suicide. Yes, Williams made the choice to kill himself, but he did so in a mentally ill state. He probably did *NOT* make any conscious choice to create the depressive background that led to his suicidal ideation.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:53 PM (6Q9g2)
52
Hanging yourself has got to be a bad way to die. Plenty of time to regret what you're doing.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 04:54 PM (QupBk)
53
I love how Rush Limbaugh's every word is examined under a goddam electron microscope.
I think that is the issue, here. But since we have no way to counter it we ignore that particular elephant in our company.
I love how Rush Limbaugh's every word is examined under a goddam electron microscope.
I think that is the issue, here. But since we have no way to counter it we ignore that particular elephant in our company.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 04:54 PM (xvH+/)
54
To call them "cowards" -- as Shep Smith did -- is to be cruel to they themselves
So, Shep won't consider using a Smith and Wesson toothpick?
Quelle domage.
To call them "cowards" -- as Shep Smith did -- is to be cruel to they themselves
So, Shep won't consider using a Smith and Wesson toothpick?
Quelle domage.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 04:54 PM (kdS6q)
55
this is kinda like the Iggles QB thing, when Rush was criticizing the media rather than the player--but the Faux Outrage was shouted non-stop for weeks
you don't wanna give 'permission' to those contemplating suicide by talking about the sorta-positive aspects of it
you don't wanna give 'permission' to those contemplating suicide by talking about the sorta-positive aspects of it
Posted by: doug the head ( notorious J E W ) at August 13, 2014 04:54 PM (8CdUx)
56
1,692 words.
I'll bet Ace could do NaNoWriMo in three days, and spend the rest of the month "researching" French actresses.
I'll bet Ace could do NaNoWriMo in three days, and spend the rest of the month "researching" French actresses.
Posted by: Waterhouse at August 13, 2014 04:54 PM (dQoSM)
57
In ye olden days, suicides were not buried in graveyards/churchyards. That was meant to discourage people from suicide by emphasizing that it was a mortal sin.
Then the compassionate crew insisted that was cruel.
Then the compassionate crew insisted that was cruel.
Posted by: @votermom at August 13, 2014 04:55 PM (GSIDW)
58
Tom Jackson and Berman still lie about what Rush said regarding McNabb.
Posted by: X at August 13, 2014 04:55 PM (KHo8t)
59
"In real time, I thought the caller was trying to set him up. I may have been correct."
I had that same feeling.
Rush likes to stir controversy, but his method works best when he sticks to politics.
I had that same feeling.
Rush likes to stir controversy, but his method works best when he sticks to politics.
Posted by: Crash Harliquein at August 13, 2014 04:55 PM (qBM/M)
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 04:55 PM (xvH+/)
61
It is also important to note that for the past few weeks Rush has been explicitly on the "EVERYTHING is political" theme. His point being that everything has politics in it, even if does not seem that way. Or at least in the media discussion of everything.
So the question from the caller (and of course that means that it was something Rush wanted to talk about on the show) was what is the politics in the Robin Williams story. And he wanted to show that even in the coverage of the death of a star there is politics underlying it.
So, is he pumping that larger than it is, because he has a theme, and he has to make things fit in it? Sure. But is there politics in there, and denying that there is, doesn't that kind of make Rush's point, too? Yeah, that too.
So the question from the caller (and of course that means that it was something Rush wanted to talk about on the show) was what is the politics in the Robin Williams story. And he wanted to show that even in the coverage of the death of a star there is politics underlying it.
So, is he pumping that larger than it is, because he has a theme, and he has to make things fit in it? Sure. But is there politics in there, and denying that there is, doesn't that kind of make Rush's point, too? Yeah, that too.
Posted by: blaster at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (7X4hH)
62
Our family watched "Hook" together just a couple weeks ago. It was one of my favorite movies as a kid, and the day after old boy died, my kids came to me saying that the man who played Peter Pan in Hook had died.
I liked Patch Adams. I liked Mrs. Doubtfire. Jumanji was fun. What Dreams May Come was good. Dead Poets Society was good. I always thought Robin Williams was a very entertaining actor.
I never watched 24 Hour Photo because I don't like scary movies, but I'm told RW was a very convincing psychopath. At the same time it was released, I remember discussion of his bi-polar disorder and manic/depressive phases, that most of what we remember him for now was really the manic side of him, and that 24 Hour Photo was shot during the depressive phase of his disorder.
I liked Patch Adams. I liked Mrs. Doubtfire. Jumanji was fun. What Dreams May Come was good. Dead Poets Society was good. I always thought Robin Williams was a very entertaining actor.
I never watched 24 Hour Photo because I don't like scary movies, but I'm told RW was a very convincing psychopath. At the same time it was released, I remember discussion of his bi-polar disorder and manic/depressive phases, that most of what we remember him for now was really the manic side of him, and that 24 Hour Photo was shot during the depressive phase of his disorder.
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (+xLeJ)
63
Do we really want to push the "he inspired us" storyline about a man who hung himself while his wife slept in the next room?
Posted by: Ace at 04:40 PM
If it is true that he inspired the person saying it, why not? Primo Levi inspired people but committed suicide, too.
Posted by: Ace at 04:40 PM
If it is true that he inspired the person saying it, why not? Primo Levi inspired people but committed suicide, too.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (QZcg+)
64
On the bright side his rep has already gotten him a part in next season's The Walking Dead for big money.
What? Too soon?
What? Too soon?
Posted by: Hopped Up on Something at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (iqdIm)
65
When Ace starts brushing up on his Crepe skills, look out.
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (Kc2xY)
66
I've always thought suicide is just selfish. No thought for anyone but yourself.
A self centered act of defeat. Religion usually can cure these sort of thoughts, but you have to make the first move.
Quitters quit.
A self centered act of defeat. Religion usually can cure these sort of thoughts, but you have to make the first move.
Quitters quit.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (0FSuD)
67
Guess what happened? Groucho's death went almost completely unnoticed in the post-Elvis hysteria. Even though Groucho was a major figure in American cultural history.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (izqG1)
After all he did start WWII after taking over Germany. Or wait, was that the tramp guy?
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (izqG1)
After all he did start WWII after taking over Germany. Or wait, was that the tramp guy?
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (t06LC)
68
In Judaism, the suicides are buried in a separate part of the cemetery. I think most still adhere to this practice.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (32Ze2)
69
One Hour Photo was a very good movie. His character was both deeply disturbed and sympathetic at the same time.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (mx5oN)
70
Writers need to admit the obvious: We writers have much more control over our words than someone speaking (for three hours) without a script, extemporaneously.
Thank you. I've made this point many times when Rush has been criticized for "intemperate" remarks.
Then, when we find out we were lied to (it seems that the Washington Times reporter bit on an MMFA story) we then say "he could have said it better".
Yeah, well, that doesn't work.
I'd love to see Stewart, Colbert or Oliver do an unscripted program for 15 hours a week.
Thank you. I've made this point many times when Rush has been criticized for "intemperate" remarks.
Then, when we find out we were lied to (it seems that the Washington Times reporter bit on an MMFA story) we then say "he could have said it better".
Yeah, well, that doesn't work.
I'd love to see Stewart, Colbert or Oliver do an unscripted program for 15 hours a week.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (zIfHw)
71
So in the original thread about the Williams suicide that went so badly off the rails, one of the Horde described themselves as having quit cocaine a while back, and then having quit drinking just recently.
Including this advice:
"If you stop drinking all of a sudden and start sweating, blood pressure goes up, can't sleep, have hallucinations etc., you probably need to stop for a while at least."
I haven't stopped drinking, but I've had every single one of those symptoms continuously since Election Day 2008.
Including this advice:
"If you stop drinking all of a sudden and start sweating, blood pressure goes up, can't sleep, have hallucinations etc., you probably need to stop for a while at least."
I haven't stopped drinking, but I've had every single one of those symptoms continuously since Election Day 2008.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 13, 2014 04:58 PM (noWW6)
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2014 04:58 PM (Kc2xY)
73
The whole episode has been informative.
I was not a fan of Williams' work. Nor did I track his politics. I suppose I assumed he was a Lefty, but he didn't hit my radar with his politics. Not that it would've mattered. There are not that many people, percentage-wise, whose political beliefs are so odious as to warrant me shitting on their body when it's still warm, especially when they have left behind loved ones.
I think it is tragic when any human life is wasted. It's bad for the human species and, if you're a person of faith, it's an abomination of God's gift. Suicide is particularly tragic, because it reveals a person so in torment that he rejects our most primal urge to live. I don't need to know any details of a person's life to feel the loss of that act. And, of course, the effect on Williams' loved ones is horrible.
So I feel no shame or conflict over wholeheartedly saying that Williams' suicide is tragic. Nor do I feel conflicted in the least in writing off people who apparently do not know where the line of humanity is as they try to score some political points off of his death or put words in God's mouth about suicide or spout nonsense about clinical depression.
I was not a fan of Williams' work. Nor did I track his politics. I suppose I assumed he was a Lefty, but he didn't hit my radar with his politics. Not that it would've mattered. There are not that many people, percentage-wise, whose political beliefs are so odious as to warrant me shitting on their body when it's still warm, especially when they have left behind loved ones.
I think it is tragic when any human life is wasted. It's bad for the human species and, if you're a person of faith, it's an abomination of God's gift. Suicide is particularly tragic, because it reveals a person so in torment that he rejects our most primal urge to live. I don't need to know any details of a person's life to feel the loss of that act. And, of course, the effect on Williams' loved ones is horrible.
So I feel no shame or conflict over wholeheartedly saying that Williams' suicide is tragic. Nor do I feel conflicted in the least in writing off people who apparently do not know where the line of humanity is as they try to score some political points off of his death or put words in God's mouth about suicide or spout nonsense about clinical depression.
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 04:58 PM (zDsvJ)
74
When the media says anything about Rush, one's immediate reaction based on history should be to disbelieve it. I remember how their lies prevented him from becoming an owner of whatever NFL team that was.
I remember watching an episode of the Glenn Beck program while he was still on Fox and Glenn mocked people who thought Obama was the antichrist by saying something like, "Sure, sure. He's the antichrist. So spooky." It was obvious to anyone watching with a fraction of a brain cell that he was being facetious and in fact was mocking people who think Obama is the antichrist.
Of course, the very next day, some outfit (MM?) accused him of saying Obama is the antichrist. I found it quite amazing at the time, but no longer.
Scorpions gonna scorp.
I remember watching an episode of the Glenn Beck program while he was still on Fox and Glenn mocked people who thought Obama was the antichrist by saying something like, "Sure, sure. He's the antichrist. So spooky." It was obvious to anyone watching with a fraction of a brain cell that he was being facetious and in fact was mocking people who think Obama is the antichrist.
Of course, the very next day, some outfit (MM?) accused him of saying Obama is the antichrist. I found it quite amazing at the time, but no longer.
Scorpions gonna scorp.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 04:58 PM (r+7wo)
Posted by: doug the head ( notorious J E W ) at August 13, 2014 04:58 PM (8CdUx)
76
57
In ye olden days, suicides were not buried in graveyards/churchyards.
That was meant to discourage people from suicide by emphasizing that it
was a mortal sin.
Then the compassionate crew insisted that was cruel.
===
I don't know what the formal view on suicide is, but IIRC, some Christian denominations view it as an irredeemable sin (ie kill yourself, proceed directly to hell).
Anyway, denying normal burial to the suicidee, is cruel to the family, who likely weren't responsible for the suicide, but then have to deal with the associated social stigma.
In ye olden days, suicides were not buried in graveyards/churchyards.
That was meant to discourage people from suicide by emphasizing that it
was a mortal sin.
Then the compassionate crew insisted that was cruel.
===
I don't know what the formal view on suicide is, but IIRC, some Christian denominations view it as an irredeemable sin (ie kill yourself, proceed directly to hell).
Anyway, denying normal burial to the suicidee, is cruel to the family, who likely weren't responsible for the suicide, but then have to deal with the associated social stigma.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (6Q9g2)
77
Forgotten Smells was a great band.
Forgotten Smells was a great band.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (xvH+/)
78
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 04:56 PM (+xLeJ)
He also played a good creepy role in Insomnia.
He also played a good creepy role in Insomnia.
Posted by: KG at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (p7BzH)
79
One thing I wondered about is him being so acutely depressed and in rehab. Sure, addiction and depression are intertwined but when does a rehab say we can't help you with your addition until your depression is under control? In fact, Hazeldon might have said just that to him. I'm surprised his family didn't seek to hospitalize him for the very fact that he would have 24/7 observation in case he attempted suicide. They say he was acutely depressed for 3 weeks and he did look it in photos.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (QZcg+)
80
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 04:48 PM (XUKZU)
Addiction and suicide are often choices under a a type of duress though.
I skimmed that post and the problem seemed to be he was saying "don't say depression made him do it, he had control over it."
Which is a very narrow view of depression.
Sure the addict has a "choice" in the sense that free will is a thing, but it's really not much of one is it?
Addiction and suicide are often choices under a a type of duress though.
I skimmed that post and the problem seemed to be he was saying "don't say depression made him do it, he had control over it."
Which is a very narrow view of depression.
Sure the addict has a "choice" in the sense that free will is a thing, but it's really not much of one is it?
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (HDwDg)
81
>>>I will go out on a limb here and say: Lauren Bacall was vastly more significant as a movie star than Robin Williams. yet her death is barely getting mentioned at all. Sad.
Turner Classic Movies is running their usual obituary montage, TCM Remembers, for her. I haven't seen them run one for Robin Williams yet. They haven't announced a day of her movies yet like they did for James Garner recently.
Turner Classic Movies is running their usual obituary montage, TCM Remembers, for her. I haven't seen them run one for Robin Williams yet. They haven't announced a day of her movies yet like they did for James Garner recently.
Posted by: X at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (KHo8t)
82
Russell Brand couldn't wait to inject HIS politics into Robin's death while he was supposed to be giving a tribute, thought it would be a primo time to rip people who watch Fox News
Go fuck yourself you unfunny little twat
Go fuck yourself you unfunny little twat
Posted by: kbdabear at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (aTXUx)
83
He didn't "inspire" me but he sure made me laugh. He could ad-lib like nobodies business. RIP. Media let it go...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (9+ccr)
84
Writers need to admit the obvious: We writers have much more control over our words than someone speaking (for three hours) without a script, extemporaneously.
Just a side note, this was one of the minor criticisms that came to mind reading Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. He seemed to take it as a given that a politician's published remarks were the same as the public debate and/or oration.
It could be true, but he gave no evidence of it, and I've seen enough instances of politicians deeming something having been spoken so it can get into the congressional record, to take it as a given.
Just a side note, this was one of the minor criticisms that came to mind reading Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. He seemed to take it as a given that a politician's published remarks were the same as the public debate and/or oration.
It could be true, but he gave no evidence of it, and I've seen enough instances of politicians deeming something having been spoken so it can get into the congressional record, to take it as a given.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (J0IP0)
85
69 One Hour Photo was a very good movie. His character was both deeply disturbed and sympathetic at the same time.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (mx5oN)
Whoops. I was just talking about "24 Hour Photo" which I never watched a couple comments above yours. Shows how much I know about the movie I didn't watch.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 04:57 PM (mx5oN)
Whoops. I was just talking about "24 Hour Photo" which I never watched a couple comments above yours. Shows how much I know about the movie I didn't watch.
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (+xLeJ)
86
Overall suicide is just bad. Don't do it
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (32Ze2)
87
@73
I think you're right on. I don't really see any teachable moments about politics here. I only see a personal tragedy.
I think you're right on. I don't really see any teachable moments about politics here. I only see a personal tragedy.
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (t06LC)
88
Well at least I wasn't dressed as Mrs Doubtfire when I swung the sweet chariot too low.
Posted by: David One night, in Bankok Carradeine at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (vmAFq)
89
I stopped drinking four months ago
weaning myself off the formaldehyde-soaked fatties will take a little longer...
weaning myself off the formaldehyde-soaked fatties will take a little longer...
Posted by: doug the head ( notorious J E W ) at August 13, 2014 05:00 PM (8CdUx)
90
You may very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
Posted by: F.U. at August 13, 2014 05:01 PM (Ua6T/)
91
We're going to need a puppy or a baby koala after this.
Posted by: garrett at August 13, 2014 05:01 PM (Kc2xY)
92
After all he did start WWII after taking over Germany. Or wait, was that the tramp guy?
Groucho inspired John Lennon to overthrow the Czar.
Groucho inspired John Lennon to overthrow the Czar.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:01 PM (QupBk)
93
OFF TOPIC, but pop the corks: Brett Kimberlin gets handed his own ass in court. Defense verdict: linky goodness in the nick, below.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (iIzG7)
94
I believe Williams has said as much himself, and IIRC he'd also admitted to previous thoughts of suicide.
I'm surprised he did it so late in life. Younger people are more at risk for suicide.
I'm surprised he did it so late in life. Younger people are more at risk for suicide.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (zIfHw)
95
I find Russel Brand utterly repulsive. He wags his bony ass finger at other people telling them they better watch out when the revolutions comes. Millionaire douchebags like him will be the first ones against the wall.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (QZcg+)
96
That you'll be praised as a wonderful human being who just felt the
pain of the world too intensely, and that your decision to take your own
life (leaving behind emotionally-slain children!!!!) is completely
understandable and even, if not quite justifiable, certainly deserving
of sympathetic respect.
Last year or year before, the Des Moines Register (owned by pinko Gannett at the time) did a big front page series on Iowa high school kids (mostly but not all gay) who had killed themselves--full-color photos of teddy bear shrines and memorial yearbook pages and pretty girls sobbing, endless quotes from classmates about how brilliant and loved they really were...totally lavished attention on kids who wouldn't make their local papers, let alone a state one.
The following week a half-dozen high school kids across the state killed themselves--way higher than the normal rate, which is something like a dozen or less in an entire school year.
The week after THAT, they ran an editorial about how state and federal governments weren't doing enough to prevent teen suicide. O_o
Long story short...if they haven't already (I've been busy) watch for the MFM to start using Williams' unfortunate end to push their We Need Bigger And More Instrusive Government! agenda.
pain of the world too intensely, and that your decision to take your own
life (leaving behind emotionally-slain children!!!!) is completely
understandable and even, if not quite justifiable, certainly deserving
of sympathetic respect.
Last year or year before, the Des Moines Register (owned by pinko Gannett at the time) did a big front page series on Iowa high school kids (mostly but not all gay) who had killed themselves--full-color photos of teddy bear shrines and memorial yearbook pages and pretty girls sobbing, endless quotes from classmates about how brilliant and loved they really were...totally lavished attention on kids who wouldn't make their local papers, let alone a state one.
The following week a half-dozen high school kids across the state killed themselves--way higher than the normal rate, which is something like a dozen or less in an entire school year.
The week after THAT, they ran an editorial about how state and federal governments weren't doing enough to prevent teen suicide. O_o
Long story short...if they haven't already (I've been busy) watch for the MFM to start using Williams' unfortunate end to push their We Need Bigger And More Instrusive Government! agenda.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (/kI1Q)
97
I was not a fan of Williams' work. Nor did I track his politics. I suppose I assumed he was a Lefty
==
Me too, though apparently the guy was highly pro-Israel, and sometimes called himself an "honorary Jew".
I was once on a German talk show, and this woman said to me, "Mr.
Williams, why do you think there is not so much comedy in Germany?" And I
said, "Did you ever think you killed all the funny people?
==
Me too, though apparently the guy was highly pro-Israel, and sometimes called himself an "honorary Jew".
I was once on a German talk show, and this woman said to me, "Mr.
Williams, why do you think there is not so much comedy in Germany?" And I
said, "Did you ever think you killed all the funny people?
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (6Q9g2)
98
I skimmed that post and the problem seemed to be he was saying "don't say depression made him do it, he had control over it."
Which is a very narrow view of depression.
I'd say it shows a complete misunderstanding of the disease.
Which is a very narrow view of depression.
I'd say it shows a complete misunderstanding of the disease.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (mx5oN)
99
Important insights here that MSM whores won't touch.
I very quickly tuned out the over done coverage of this sad end as the points made here were nowhere in evidence.
Whatever he was, or achieved, were not magnified by this desperate act, they were sadly diminished by a lost sense of hope that he couldn't find a way to rekindle.
Millions of sad stories of anonymous souls that don't get deified for clinical issues refute the media meme.
I very quickly tuned out the over done coverage of this sad end as the points made here were nowhere in evidence.
Whatever he was, or achieved, were not magnified by this desperate act, they were sadly diminished by a lost sense of hope that he couldn't find a way to rekindle.
Millions of sad stories of anonymous souls that don't get deified for clinical issues refute the media meme.
Posted by: ontherocks at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (lNcsZ)
100
Anyway, denying normal burial to the suicidee, is
cruel to the family, who likely weren't responsible for the suicide, but
then have to deal with the associated social stigma.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (6Q9g2)
Which could be argued as adding to the deterrence factor.
But anyway, I'm not arguing one way or the other. That ship has sailed a long time ago probably.
cruel to the family, who likely weren't responsible for the suicide, but
then have to deal with the associated social stigma.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 04:59 PM (6Q9g2)
Which could be argued as adding to the deterrence factor.
But anyway, I'm not arguing one way or the other. That ship has sailed a long time ago probably.
Posted by: KG at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (p7BzH)
101
79
It's actually kind of controversial right now, which condition to treat first, if addressing both at once doesn't seem to be working. Mental illness is poorly understood as it is, it gets so murky when you add addiction. It's possible that he's tried treating each one separately before
It's actually kind of controversial right now, which condition to treat first, if addressing both at once doesn't seem to be working. Mental illness is poorly understood as it is, it gets so murky when you add addiction. It's possible that he's tried treating each one separately before
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (LvYhO)
102
The way depression is covered by the MSM is odd.
Whereas the MSM falls over themselves to cover "science" and psychology, and sociology, and whatever causes people to do what they do (always an excuse buried in there somewhere), when clinical depression comes into play, such as the last kid mass shooter, who then turned the gun on himself, what did they do?
Instead of addressing the issue, many talked about gun control.
The way depression is covered by the MSM is odd.
Whereas the MSM falls over themselves to cover "science" and psychology, and sociology, and whatever causes people to do what they do (always an excuse buried in there somewhere), when clinical depression comes into play, such as the last kid mass shooter, who then turned the gun on himself, what did they do?
Instead of addressing the issue, many talked about gun control.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (IXrOn)
103
Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done. Quitting drinking was bad, but smoking was tortuous.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (32Ze2)
104
I learned something. I learned that Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie are two different movies.
I learned something. I learned that Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie are two different movies.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (xvH+/)
105
Last year my 56 year old brother shot his wife twice in the head, called 911 to report he'd just helped her commit suicide, then lay down in bed, pulled up the covers, and blew his own brains out, presumably over the impending loss of their home. They had two adult children and five grandchildren. The outpouring of grief from the community was overwhelming, but overlooked the fact that my brother was a lifelong scammer, liar, thief, and a financial idiot. It was a supremely selfish act, has scarred my family in the most permanent ways you can imagine, and was the culmination of the forty years of drama and turmoil he subjected my nearly 80 year old parents to enduring on a near daily basis. Some days I miss him, some days I hurt for him, and some days I hate him, but every day the point is driven home to me
that all of it, in the end, was all about him, what he wanted, and what a victim he considered himself to be, even tho he brought all his troubles on himself thru the choices he made. Selfish? You bet your ass it was selfish -- as selfish in death as he was in life.
that all of it, in the end, was all about him, what he wanted, and what a victim he considered himself to be, even tho he brought all his troubles on himself thru the choices he made. Selfish? You bet your ass it was selfish -- as selfish in death as he was in life.
Posted by: UnderCoverInLA at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (UdaXp)
106
Williams had serious money problems and a couple of divorces under his belt. The substance abuse issues certainly didn't help. He probably figured winning that Oscar for Good Will Hunting would set him up in the last parts of his career, and you can how that played out if you look at his filmography.
Politics had nothing to do with it.
Politics had nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (oFCZn)
107
Williams was a lot like Johnathan Winters. Fucking crazy. Both had the ability to make anything funny.
Winters struggled with his mental health and was committed at least once.
I think William got over his head with his craziness AND the women he married.
When you take yourself too seriously, you tend to go off the edge with guilt for mistakes.
Thank God none of the morons takes themselves that seriously.
Winters struggled with his mental health and was committed at least once.
I think William got over his head with his craziness AND the women he married.
When you take yourself too seriously, you tend to go off the edge with guilt for mistakes.
Thank God none of the morons takes themselves that seriously.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (0FSuD)
108
Sure the addict has a "choice" in the sense that free will is a thing, but it's really not much of one is it?
-
Yeah, I have an easier life than Ted Bundy because I have zero, zip, nada desire to kill and rape women and he had the urge so bad he threw away everything including his life for it. Still, it was his choice.
-
Yeah, I have an easier life than Ted Bundy because I have zero, zip, nada desire to kill and rape women and he had the urge so bad he threw away everything including his life for it. Still, it was his choice.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (XUKZU)
109
Kurt Vonnegut's son is/was a manic-depressive, and made an observation that I have always recalled; "Knowing that you are going crazy doesn't make the crazy stuff stop." Which is true. One can not simply will one's self out of depression.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (1Mxs7)
110
@76
I seem to recall the Williams movie "What Dreams May Come" dealt with him reuniting with his wife who was in hell due to her being a suicide. Dante also had the 7th Circle reserved for suicides, so yes. A lot of traditional stigma is associated.
I seem to recall the Williams movie "What Dreams May Come" dealt with him reuniting with his wife who was in hell due to her being a suicide. Dante also had the 7th Circle reserved for suicides, so yes. A lot of traditional stigma is associated.
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (t06LC)
111
I think suicide is a horrible, horrible thing, and especially devastating to loved ones. BUT, I can also imagine just wanting the pain of whatever one is going through to stop or to sleep forever.
I have never been suicidal and am of a particularly sunny temperament, but I can imagine how it might be.
Perhaps if potential suicides are reminded of the effect of their planned actions on all who love them? But I suspect that some feel the world is better off without them and some that anything is better than the torment they are going through.
It's really such a horrible thing.
Does it help if people try to serve others and not focus so much on themselves and the pain? I don't know.
I have never been suicidal and am of a particularly sunny temperament, but I can imagine how it might be.
Perhaps if potential suicides are reminded of the effect of their planned actions on all who love them? But I suspect that some feel the world is better off without them and some that anything is better than the torment they are going through.
It's really such a horrible thing.
Does it help if people try to serve others and not focus so much on themselves and the pain? I don't know.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (r+7wo)
112
>>One thing I wondered about is him being so acutely depressed and in rehab. Sure, addiction and depression are intertwined but when does a rehab say we can't help you with your addition until your depression is under control? In fact, Hazeldon might have said just that to him.
Hazeldon does treat depression along with a host of other emotion problems. Substance abuse is often linked with underlying emotional issues so not to surprising.
Hazeldon does treat depression along with a host of other emotion problems. Substance abuse is often linked with underlying emotional issues so not to surprising.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (g1DWB)
113
Hanging yourself has got to be a bad way to die. Plenty of time to regret what you're doing.
A garrotting, sure. But if the arteries are pinched shut before losing aspiration, for lack of a better word, now, the goose is cooking with gas.
A garrotting, sure. But if the arteries are pinched shut before losing aspiration, for lack of a better word, now, the goose is cooking with gas.
Posted by: Raul Ghoulia at August 13, 2014 05:05 PM (ZFu22)
114
a friend of mine who ought to know better believes this crap, and said that even after she supposedly read the transcript.
people know what they want to be true, and don't give a shit about anything else these days.
people know what they want to be true, and don't give a shit about anything else these days.
Posted by: redc1c4 at August 13, 2014 05:06 PM (q+fqH)
115
He inspired me to hate Peter Pan even more than I already did.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:06 PM (VhqUZ)
116
A while back my BIL committed suicide. Locked himself in his apartment and set off explosives. Didn't kill anyone else thank God. I have to say we never saw it coming...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:06 PM (9+ccr)
117
Younger people are more at risk for suicide.
Not lately.
Click the link and check out the graph.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/193322/
Not lately.
Click the link and check out the graph.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/193322/
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:07 PM (/kI1Q)
118
I suppose I assumed he was a Lefty, but he didn't hit my radar with his politics.
I'm pretty sure he was, but on the other hand there is a video of him performing for the troops making the rounds (or was, before he died and people started paying attention to Dead Poet Society again).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9QAAEfQEA
I'm pretty sure he was, but on the other hand there is a video of him performing for the troops making the rounds (or was, before he died and people started paying attention to Dead Poet Society again).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD9QAAEfQEA
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 13, 2014 05:07 PM (J0IP0)
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:07 PM (VhqUZ)
120
#94
Not true.
There are two suicide "peaks" and one of them is in older men. Also, a history of alcoholism (which Williams had) is strongly correlated with increased suicide risk.
On depression, again, its a mental illness that strongly influences behavior. If people could exercise control over it, they wouldn't commit suicide. Hypothesizing what Williams could or couldn't have done here is fairly presumptive. . .we don't know what he did, or didn't do, or how long he was battling this episode. We do know the guy just checked out of rehab for alcoholism, supposedly after putting himself in. So he did, at least, recognize that he had a problem and was trying to work on it.
Not true.
There are two suicide "peaks" and one of them is in older men. Also, a history of alcoholism (which Williams had) is strongly correlated with increased suicide risk.
On depression, again, its a mental illness that strongly influences behavior. If people could exercise control over it, they wouldn't commit suicide. Hypothesizing what Williams could or couldn't have done here is fairly presumptive. . .we don't know what he did, or didn't do, or how long he was battling this episode. We do know the guy just checked out of rehab for alcoholism, supposedly after putting himself in. So he did, at least, recognize that he had a problem and was trying to work on it.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 05:07 PM (PwGfd)
121
My favorite RW movie was the Fisher King. I also read an article earlier today of an interview with a neighbor and friend of his who said that RW hated doing movies because it brought his demons out. He was slated to do four movies, and maybe the burden became too much. And maybe the part about the demons is why he was so believable in Fisher King.
Posted by: LFW- 36 days to retirement at August 13, 2014 05:08 PM (CGjum)
122
At least Williams didn't shoot himself and we were spared the self righteous gun nuts blaming the gun for his death and he won't be included in "gun homicides" BS stats.
I say it's time to ban belts! Bring back braces!
I say it's time to ban belts! Bring back braces!
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:08 PM (0FSuD)
123
Bangerang.
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 05:08 PM (+xLeJ)
124
94
That's actually not true. Young people have higher absolute numbers of suicides (because there's more of them), but middle-aged people have higher rates.
That's actually not true. Young people have higher absolute numbers of suicides (because there's more of them), but middle-aged people have higher rates.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (LvYhO)
125
I saw on my iPad Monday night that FNC would have Shep host a special on Robin Williams life & I had heard of it briefly in my car, on news every hour & came home & was on phone for an hour with a friend
I read a out it here & refused to watch anything with Shep Smith in it. I can still picture him crying during Katrina in 2005.
How did MisHum manage to post @4:37 & Ace is at 4:40?
I read a out it here & refused to watch anything with Shep Smith in it. I can still picture him crying during Katrina in 2005.
How did MisHum manage to post @4:37 & Ace is at 4:40?
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (sj3Ax)
126
Do you believe there was no note? I don't.
Do you believe there was no note? I don't.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (xvH+/)
127
Younger people are more at risk for suicide.
--------------------
I'm gonna shift that demographic...
--------------------
I'm gonna shift that demographic...
Posted by: Obamacare at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (1Mxs7)
128
118 I suppose I assumed he was a Lefty, but he didn't hit my radar with his politics.
He was quite generous with St Judes and the troops. He was a Lib but he pretty much kept it to himself .
He was quite generous with St Judes and the troops. He was a Lib but he pretty much kept it to himself .
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (9+ccr)
129
8 I will go out on a limb here and say:
Lauren Bacall was vastly more significant as a movie star than Robin Williams. yet her death is barely getting mentioned at all. Sad.
Kind of reminds me of when Groucho Marx died -- just three days after Elvis Presley died.
Guess what happened? Groucho's death went almost completely unnoticed in the post-Elvis hysteria. Even though Groucho was a major figure in American cultural history.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (izqG1)
++++
I think a big part of it is that Williams was much bigger at present than Bacall. The media is going to be more focused on who is big at the moment. Also, Williams was known not only for his film career, but also his standup.
I think your point about Groucho / Elvis is on less solid ground. Groucho was great, but if you put the entirety of their careers side by side, Elvis had a much bigger impact overall.
Lauren Bacall was vastly more significant as a movie star than Robin Williams. yet her death is barely getting mentioned at all. Sad.
Kind of reminds me of when Groucho Marx died -- just three days after Elvis Presley died.
Guess what happened? Groucho's death went almost completely unnoticed in the post-Elvis hysteria. Even though Groucho was a major figure in American cultural history.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 04:41 PM (izqG1)
++++
I think a big part of it is that Williams was much bigger at present than Bacall. The media is going to be more focused on who is big at the moment. Also, Williams was known not only for his film career, but also his standup.
I think your point about Groucho / Elvis is on less solid ground. Groucho was great, but if you put the entirety of their careers side by side, Elvis had a much bigger impact overall.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (IN7k+)
130
1,692 words.
Posted by: dogfish at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM
I'm confused. Did Ace like the movie or not?
Posted by: dogfish at August 13, 2014 04:46 PM
I'm confused. Did Ace like the movie or not?
Posted by: Farmer at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (o/90i)
131
110
@76
I seem to recall the Williams movie "What Dreams May Come" dealt
with him reuniting with his wife who was in hell due to her being a
suicide. Dante also had the 7th Circle reserved for suicides, so yes. A
lot of traditional stigma is associated.
==
In fact, now that you mention this, IIRC, here is a scene in the movie "Tin Men" where Williams plays a used car salesman trying to talk someone OUT of suicide, by appealing to their Catholocism, saying they'll go right to hell if they do that.
@76
I seem to recall the Williams movie "What Dreams May Come" dealt
with him reuniting with his wife who was in hell due to her being a
suicide. Dante also had the 7th Circle reserved for suicides, so yes. A
lot of traditional stigma is associated.
==
In fact, now that you mention this, IIRC, here is a scene in the movie "Tin Men" where Williams plays a used car salesman trying to talk someone OUT of suicide, by appealing to their Catholocism, saying they'll go right to hell if they do that.
Posted by: looking closely at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (PwGfd)
132
I have a SIL who is manic.
I've seen what happens once off meds. It was so new to me.
Years ago I worked for a company where one of the employees was super manic. Days she just didn't come in. One of the managers, who was friends with her, would go to check on her, because she could be gone for days, with no word.
She said she found her lying in bed, always, with wrappers and cans, and garbage piled up all around the bed and room.
My first glimpse.
When she came to work, she always had black circles around her eyes, so big, and so dark. No clue if she was getting any type of help. She may have also gone off her meds.
The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them. So, they think they feel good enough, after being on the meds, to just skip it. Then crash.
I've seen what happens once off meds. It was so new to me.
Years ago I worked for a company where one of the employees was super manic. Days she just didn't come in. One of the managers, who was friends with her, would go to check on her, because she could be gone for days, with no word.
She said she found her lying in bed, always, with wrappers and cans, and garbage piled up all around the bed and room.
My first glimpse.
When she came to work, she always had black circles around her eyes, so big, and so dark. No clue if she was getting any type of help. She may have also gone off her meds.
The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them. So, they think they feel good enough, after being on the meds, to just skip it. Then crash.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (IXrOn)
133
Heh! I actually know what that means and it has nothing to do with teeth.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:10 PM (uZwoq)
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:10 PM (QupBk)
135
Perhaps if potential suicides are reminded of the effect of their planned actions on all who love them?
Depends on why they're suicidal. Sad they got dumped? Might help. Voices inside their head telling them they should? Won't help.
Depends on why they're suicidal. Sad they got dumped? Might help. Voices inside their head telling them they should? Won't help.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:10 PM (/kI1Q)
136
I say it's time to ban belts! Bring back braces!
Posted by: Nip Sip
---------------
Hear, hear!
Oh..., wait a minute...
Posted by: Nip Sip
---------------
Hear, hear!
Oh..., wait a minute...
Posted by: Orthodontists everywhere at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (1Mxs7)
137
Wait till Rush hears about Koko the Gorilla mourning Robin Williams. I am not kidding. This is a top AOL News item... along with video of RW visiting Koko years ago and tickling each other...
Posted by: Baldy at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (2bql3)
138
T'Pring is dead. Actress Arlene Martell, who played Spock's betrothed in the Star Trek episode "Amok Time," had a heart attack Tuesday.
She also co-starred in the original "Demon With a Glass Hand," which is being remade as a feature film.
She also co-starred in the original "Demon With a Glass Hand," which is being remade as a feature film.
Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (a5ljo)
139
LFW,
I loved The Fisher King & watched it several times on cable.i haven't seen it in years
I loved The Fisher King & watched it several times on cable.i haven't seen it in years
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (sj3Ax)
140
I'm confused. Did Ace like the movie or not?
Posted by: Farmer at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (o/90i)
Hey, I already axed that @43. Obviously he didn't.
Posted by: Farmer at August 13, 2014 05:09 PM (o/90i)
Hey, I already axed that @43. Obviously he didn't.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (0FSuD)
141
The reason I doubt the absence of a note is that I suspect a manic personality such a Williams had a lot to finally get off his chest and could not help but leave a screed of some sort. Perhaps only two words: I'm sorry.
Who knows. But I think there was indeed a note.
The reason I doubt the absence of a note is that I suspect a manic personality such a Williams had a lot to finally get off his chest and could not help but leave a screed of some sort. Perhaps only two words: I'm sorry.
Who knows. But I think there was indeed a note.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (xvH+/)
142
@125, Carol my dear, I'm just a special moron today is all. :-)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (HVff2)
143
101 79
It's actually kind of controversial right now, which condition to treat first, if addressing both at once doesn't seem to be working. Mental illness is poorly understood as it is, it gets so murky when you add addiction. It's possible that he's tried treating each one separately before
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (LvYhO)
Mental illness and drug addiction often go hand in hand. Schizophrenics, manic-depressives, and people with clinical depression are known to turn to alcohol or illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating.
It's actually kind of controversial right now, which condition to treat first, if addressing both at once doesn't seem to be working. Mental illness is poorly understood as it is, it gets so murky when you add addiction. It's possible that he's tried treating each one separately before
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:03 PM (LvYhO)
Mental illness and drug addiction often go hand in hand. Schizophrenics, manic-depressives, and people with clinical depression are known to turn to alcohol or illegal drugs as a means of self-medicating.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (mx5oN)
144
as selfish in death as he was in life.
Classmate of mine last year shot his wife and 2 daughters, set the house on fire and shot himself. What an asshole. At least Williams didn't decide to kill a few others on his way out. I liked Mrs. Doubtfire, but I'm kinda with ace that he always just seems 'too much.'
Classmate of mine last year shot his wife and 2 daughters, set the house on fire and shot himself. What an asshole. At least Williams didn't decide to kill a few others on his way out. I liked Mrs. Doubtfire, but I'm kinda with ace that he always just seems 'too much.'
Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262 at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (9Bdcz)
145
The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
146
Oh crap.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
147
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:02 PM (mx5oN
Yes, well I was being kind to the author.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (XUKZU
But for the Grace of God go I.
I resist the notion to merely "psychologize" everything. (That is to reduce us to merely biological machines not in control of our actions.)
And it is true we all have to overcome demons of some sort or another.
Having said that "just man up!" really isn't the response. And that's how the blog post came across.
It is a complicated nuanced issue. If you're going to write about it, it may be good to represent the totality of the issue.
Yes, well I was being kind to the author.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (XUKZU
But for the Grace of God go I.
I resist the notion to merely "psychologize" everything. (That is to reduce us to merely biological machines not in control of our actions.)
And it is true we all have to overcome demons of some sort or another.
Having said that "just man up!" really isn't the response. And that's how the blog post came across.
It is a complicated nuanced issue. If you're going to write about it, it may be good to represent the totality of the issue.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (HDwDg)
148
136 I say it's time to ban belts! Bring back braces!
Posted by: Nip Sip
---------------
Hear, hear!
Oh..., wait a minute...
_______
Don't you mean suspenders?
Posted by: Nip Sip
---------------
Hear, hear!
Oh..., wait a minute...
_______
Don't you mean suspenders?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (HVff2)
149
105
Wow, I'm sorry that happened in your family.
I agree that that was a case of a selfish suicide. I don't mean that *no* suicide is selfish. In that case, he was facing a just consequence that he'd rather not, so he skipped and took his wife. Despicable. But worlds away from a depressed person finally succumbing to his disease.
Wow, I'm sorry that happened in your family.
I agree that that was a case of a selfish suicide. I don't mean that *no* suicide is selfish. In that case, he was facing a just consequence that he'd rather not, so he skipped and took his wife. Despicable. But worlds away from a depressed person finally succumbing to his disease.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (LvYhO)
150
Who knows. But I think there was indeed a note.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (xvH+/)
or a recording of some sort
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:11 PM (xvH+/)
or a recording of some sort
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (IXrOn)
151
Him being a lefty never leaked into his schtick at least as far as I ever noticed.
That's *all* I ask.
That's *all* I ask.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (VhqUZ)
152
1000 comments or bust.
Posted by: --- at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (MMC8r)
153
Isn't Koko the one who ate his special cat friend?
There was a gorilla who had a friend, a cat. The two were inseparable. It was so cute, the media explained.
Then one day the cat disappeared.
Isn't Koko the one who ate his special cat friend?
There was a gorilla who had a friend, a cat. The two were inseparable. It was so cute, the media explained.
Then one day the cat disappeared.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (xvH+/)
154
While Bacall was a legend, it is more for marrying Humphrey Bogart, than her career.
Posted by: Baldy at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (2bql3)
155
He was divorce-murded by gold-digging whores.
Posted by: Crashpanic at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (RQA9+)
156
>Depends on why they're suicidal. Sad they got dumped? Might help. Voices inside their head telling them they should? Won't help.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:10 PM (/kI1Q)<
Based on my lifetime experience of 2 people calling me for help, you nailed it. I talked the dumped one out of it and she is alive and with a new husband 20 years later. I'm not sure the other heard voices but he was manic depressive. I talked him out of it one night but he offed himself a month later without talking to me again.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:10 PM (/kI1Q)<
Based on my lifetime experience of 2 people calling me for help, you nailed it. I talked the dumped one out of it and she is alive and with a new husband 20 years later. I'm not sure the other heard voices but he was manic depressive. I talked him out of it one night but he offed himself a month later without talking to me again.
Posted by: Muad'dib at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (sjdRT)
157
Suicides kill more than the person committing the act. It is both selfish and aggressive. What man goes into the next room and kills himself while his wife sleeps in the next room? My opinion is that he was killing her as much as he was killing himself.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (32Ze2)
158
Who knows. But I think there was indeed a note.
-
I imagine there was but its contents are none of our business.
-
I imagine there was but its contents are none of our business.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (XUKZU)
159
Don't you mean suspenders?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (HVff2)
Those are what redneck farmers wear. Braces are for gentlemen.
http://tinyurl.com/p35cxaj
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:13 PM (HVff2)
Those are what redneck farmers wear. Braces are for gentlemen.
http://tinyurl.com/p35cxaj
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (0FSuD)
160
The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
Manics (bipolar) go up and down.
Super high, then super low.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
Manics (bipolar) go up and down.
Super high, then super low.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (IXrOn)
161
154 While Bacall was a legend, it is more for marrying Humphrey Bogart, than her career
And she was 89 not 63...
And she was 89 not 63...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (9+ccr)
162
It is a complicated nuanced issue. If you're going to write about it, it may be good to represent the totality of the issue.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (HDwDg)
Indeed.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (HDwDg)
Indeed.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (mx5oN)
163
I remember a 20 gauge shotgun in my mouth. Couldn't pull the trigger. Glad I didn't. That's all.
Posted by: been there almost done that at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (HVff2)
164
There was a gorilla who had a friend, a cat. The two were inseparable. It was so cute, the media explained.
Then one day the cat disappeared.
He went to live on a farm......
Then one day the cat disappeared.
He went to live on a farm......
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (Pvw07)
165
I have irrefutable evidence that Robin Williams could not control his depression.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (VhqUZ)
166
I'm going to need a chill groove stat!!!!
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (uZwoq)
167
HR - Caught a whiff of El Barrelito, eh?
Posted by: Orthodontists everywhere at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (1Mxs7)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (IXrOn)
169
Haven't read comments, but suicide is also a really mean thing to do to your family and friends. I know it's not the primary thought, but it is sort of a "you deal with this mess after I'm gone" gesture, especially to those who find them.
Had a 1st cousin once removed kill himself as a teen - he was dealing with some serious mental issues (schizophrenia) and just didn't want to keep fighting it (and to be a burden to his family). However, he chose to do it at his grandparents cabin (my great aunt uncle's) which was a favorite family gathering place. So this cabin, a place of so many happy memories, was forever stained with this tragic act of desperation and hopelessness.
Had a 1st cousin once removed kill himself as a teen - he was dealing with some serious mental issues (schizophrenia) and just didn't want to keep fighting it (and to be a burden to his family). However, he chose to do it at his grandparents cabin (my great aunt uncle's) which was a favorite family gathering place. So this cabin, a place of so many happy memories, was forever stained with this tragic act of desperation and hopelessness.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (D/504)
170
There are a lot of meds out there to treat depression. Many of them have few side effects. It may have been that the early anti-depressants made people into zombies, but I don't think that is the case today. Of course, a lot of it boils down to which ones work for any given person. But I think there's a reluctance amongst some, maybe amongst us old-timers, to seek medical treatment for depression, because of the stigma attached to the meds themselves. YMMV
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (zDsvJ)
171
Removes orthodontist's cap.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (1Mxs7)
172
BTW, I thought Limbaugh should announce he's forming an ownership group to buy the Washington Redskins and will change the name.
Let 'em choke on that!
If he does this, he should be specific about what names are on the table, so it's clear it's not a joke.
Let 'em choke on that!
If he does this, he should be specific about what names are on the table, so it's clear it's not a joke.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (zIfHw)
173
160 The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
Manics (bipolar) go up and down.
Super high, then super low.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (IXrOn)
And the trouble with medicating manics is that when you take away those high swings, they can get downright miserable about it.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
Manics (bipolar) go up and down.
Super high, then super low.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:15 PM (IXrOn)
And the trouble with medicating manics is that when you take away those high swings, they can get downright miserable about it.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:17 PM (mx5oN)
174
Why do you listen to that Fat Slob Limbaugh? President Obama should take his stooped radio show off the air because he does spread lies about our black president.
Posted by: Dorcus Blimline from Brattleboro,VT at August 13, 2014 05:17 PM (hP/Mt)
175
He went to live on a farm......
Oh, well, that's nice. I was afraid something bad happened to him.
Dogs and cats love farms.
He went to live on a farm......
Oh, well, that's nice. I was afraid something bad happened to him.
Dogs and cats love farms.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:17 PM (xvH+/)
176
The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them.
Not in my case. That was me without the meds.
I took an SRI (celexa) that took away the feeling of being squeezed all the time. Not intoxicating, or tranquilizing, but just a little more peaceful.
Quit them after 14 months, been relatively normal since.
Not in my case. That was me without the meds.
I took an SRI (celexa) that took away the feeling of being squeezed all the time. Not intoxicating, or tranquilizing, but just a little more peaceful.
Quit them after 14 months, been relatively normal since.
Posted by: --- at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (MMC8r)
177
If he does this, he should be specific about what names are on the table, so it's clear it's not a joke.
Posted by: AmishDude
-------
He has already proposed "Potatoes". Figures that will end the controversy.
Posted by: AmishDude
-------
He has already proposed "Potatoes". Figures that will end the controversy.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (1Mxs7)
178
Where I come from they say that suicide is the only sin for which you can never ask forgiveness. But I'm oldish and was raised as an icky southern Bible thumper. With that said...
The media with the message about RW is the same media with the message about Limbaugh and both messages are played to the same audience.
Hence, it's the media, the message and the consumer that are the problem.
The media with the message about RW is the same media with the message about Limbaugh and both messages are played to the same audience.
Hence, it's the media, the message and the consumer that are the problem.
Posted by: Usedtocould at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (Q5wIZ)
179
I am very comfortable with: "It's the cowards way out".
Because it is. Leave the surviviors behind to deal with it is cowardly. FYNQ.
Because it is. Leave the surviviors behind to deal with it is cowardly. FYNQ.
Posted by: nip at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (a6Odp)
180
160 The meds for depression make a person lethargic with a feeling of no life in them.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
You're probably thinking of the meds for treating bipolar people. Manic-depressives often enjoy the manic part of the disease and find that 'normal' is boring and unexciting. And I think some of the meds aggravate this effect too.
"Lethargic with a feeling of no life" is depression.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:12 PM (/kI1Q)
You're probably thinking of the meds for treating bipolar people. Manic-depressives often enjoy the manic part of the disease and find that 'normal' is boring and unexciting. And I think some of the meds aggravate this effect too.
Posted by: Maetenloch at August 13, 2014 05:19 PM (pAlYe)
181
170 There are a lot of meds out there to treat depression. Many of them have few side effects. It may have been that the early anti-depressants made people into zombies, but I don't think that is the case today. Of course, a lot of it boils down to which ones work for any given person. But I think there's a reluctance amongst some, maybe amongst us old-timers, to seek medical treatment for depression, because of the stigma attached to the meds themselves. YMMV
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (zDsvJ)
There have been tremendous advancements in antidepressant medication over time. And you're right, it's not a one size fits all proposition. It can take experimenting with different drugs and even different combinations of drugs to get the best therapeutic result.
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (zDsvJ)
There have been tremendous advancements in antidepressant medication over time. And you're right, it's not a one size fits all proposition. It can take experimenting with different drugs and even different combinations of drugs to get the best therapeutic result.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:19 PM (mx5oN)
182
179
I am very comfortable with: "It's the cowards way out".
Because it is. Leave the surviviors behind to deal with it is cowardly. FYNQ.
Posted by: nip at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (a6Odp)
The "Nips" agree.
I am very comfortable with: "It's the cowards way out".
Because it is. Leave the surviviors behind to deal with it is cowardly. FYNQ.
Posted by: nip at August 13, 2014 05:18 PM (a6Odp)
The "Nips" agree.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:20 PM (0FSuD)
183
Thanks Nip Sip. I learned some more useful shit here today!
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:20 PM (HVff2)
184
There's trouble just properly diagnosing depression vs. bipolar, too. My brother has ADHD and bipolar disorder. Sometimes bipolar people only show up at the doctor/hospital when they're in the depressed stage. So the doc treats the depression, because that's all he sees, and prescribes something that kicks the mania into overdrive.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:21 PM (LvYhO)
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:21 PM (0FSuD)
186
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:16 PM (zDsvJ)
That we much of it is a guessing game.
Finally got MIL mostly figured out from a psycho-medical standpoint.
(Long story. This is what happens when families interfere with a professional trying to make a decision.)
Switched her meds from an antidepressant to a atypical antipsychotic. (Mostly because we think the diagnosis of "Depression" was wrong, it was actually a form of bipolar.)
In any case right after the initial switch, things went OK.
Then not well at all. Meds go up.
Repeat.
Meds go up again. (Still well within normal dosages for her age and weight.)
Now we have a sorta zombie MIL who looks (for lack of a better word) "Zonked."
Oh shit! Call doc. "That happens, let go back down, and we'll if we can hold that the lower dose with minimal manic outburst."
Meanwhile other family looking in on the outside (w/o access to the doc's advice) start screaming at us "You've drugged her to make things easier, you're horrible!" (as if carting around a zonked MIL is easy?)
"These things happen! We're doing our best, and we see a doctor monthly! With calls and updates as needed!"
Anyway the TL;DR is this shit is an art not a science and I think that scares some people away.
That we much of it is a guessing game.
Finally got MIL mostly figured out from a psycho-medical standpoint.
(Long story. This is what happens when families interfere with a professional trying to make a decision.)
Switched her meds from an antidepressant to a atypical antipsychotic. (Mostly because we think the diagnosis of "Depression" was wrong, it was actually a form of bipolar.)
In any case right after the initial switch, things went OK.
Then not well at all. Meds go up.
Repeat.
Meds go up again. (Still well within normal dosages for her age and weight.)
Now we have a sorta zombie MIL who looks (for lack of a better word) "Zonked."
Oh shit! Call doc. "That happens, let go back down, and we'll if we can hold that the lower dose with minimal manic outburst."
Meanwhile other family looking in on the outside (w/o access to the doc's advice) start screaming at us "You've drugged her to make things easier, you're horrible!" (as if carting around a zonked MIL is easy?)
"These things happen! We're doing our best, and we see a doctor monthly! With calls and updates as needed!"
Anyway the TL;DR is this shit is an art not a science and I think that scares some people away.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:22 PM (HDwDg)
187
106 Williams had serious money problems and a couple of divorces under his belt. The substance abuse issues certainly didn't help.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (oFCZn)
I take the money problems with a grain of salt. It's all relative. His perception of them, of course, would be exacerbated by his depression.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (oFCZn)
I take the money problems with a grain of salt. It's all relative. His perception of them, of course, would be exacerbated by his depression.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 05:22 PM (QZcg+)
188
Well I agree with Limbaugh: Death and despair are lauded by the left because they hate real life. Quite boring! So they elevate emotion, the more excessive the better. Sturm and drang!
They mock the quotidian impulse of regular folks who don't run off to join the Spanish Civil War or the Green Movement and stay home and take care of their families and go to work every day.
They are descendants of the Romantic movement. They believe in their own passionate selves; God, not so much. He's just hogging the narcissist's selfie. And if life doesn't live up to your demands, end it.
Romanticism: good for art and music, bad for people.
http://tinyurl.com/lvexdrx
They mock the quotidian impulse of regular folks who don't run off to join the Spanish Civil War or the Green Movement and stay home and take care of their families and go to work every day.
They are descendants of the Romantic movement. They believe in their own passionate selves; God, not so much. He's just hogging the narcissist's selfie. And if life doesn't live up to your demands, end it.
Romanticism: good for art and music, bad for people.
http://tinyurl.com/lvexdrx
Posted by: Pj at August 13, 2014 05:22 PM (cHuNI)
189
185 On a lighter note. Obama voter gets pissed at over cooked steak.
How about Golfers at club frisked because yet again Baarack is playing golf. Sure spending quality with the Family...
How about Golfers at club frisked because yet again Baarack is playing golf. Sure spending quality with the Family...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:22 PM (9+ccr)
190
Everyone can get all these meds but when I ask my doctor for some speed it's like all No No No.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (QupBk)
191
I watched the fifth part of the Vice videos on IS and now this thread. It's not helping my depression......
Those Vice videos are chilling. No sane, reasonable person can think that the IS can be reasoned or negotiated with, not even the children sad to say. When you're posting pictures of your little ones on twitter holding decapitated heads up, there is no hope for you. Even the Pope knows this as a fact.
Those Vice videos are chilling. No sane, reasonable person can think that the IS can be reasoned or negotiated with, not even the children sad to say. When you're posting pictures of your little ones on twitter holding decapitated heads up, there is no hope for you. Even the Pope knows this as a fact.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (uZwoq)
192
I'll wager everyone at one time or another has had at least that thought flash through their heads about their troubles.
I had my mom ask me what I would think of her if she just took too much morphine one night. She was a terminal cancer patient. She was in great physical and emotional pain. I would have understood if she did it, but I told her not to tell me that, and that I would love her no matter what. To her great credit, she went down swinging. But, I understand.
I had my mom ask me what I would think of her if she just took too much morphine one night. She was a terminal cancer patient. She was in great physical and emotional pain. I would have understood if she did it, but I told her not to tell me that, and that I would love her no matter what. To her great credit, she went down swinging. But, I understand.
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (t06LC)
193
Do you believe there was no note? I don't.
--- A smart and caring personal assistant would give it to the family before telling the po po about it.
--- A smart and caring personal assistant would give it to the family before telling the po po about it.
Posted by: Daybrother at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (gGv+u)
194
Dogs and cats love farms.
We had a horse when I was young. It went away to live on a farm, too.
I never understood why, we were already on a farm.
We had a horse when I was young. It went away to live on a farm, too.
I never understood why, we were already on a farm.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (J0IP0)
195
Vic posted this early today but it can't be posted enough. Jeff Sessions is urging us to CALL your senators & ask where they stand on Executive Amnesty!!!
Why is Jeff Sessions the only senator advocating this?
What is wrong with the republicans that did not sign that Bill last year?
Why is Jeff Sessions the only senator advocating this?
What is wrong with the republicans that did not sign that Bill last year?
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (sj3Ax)
196
190
Everyone can get all these meds but when I ask my doctor for some speed it's like all No No No.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (QupBk)
You are axing the wrong way. Tell him you are ADD. Ritalin is just fucking speed.
Everyone can get all these meds but when I ask my doctor for some speed it's like all No No No.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (QupBk)
You are axing the wrong way. Tell him you are ADD. Ritalin is just fucking speed.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (0FSuD)
197
It is just so weird that every event in life is analyzed politically nowadays, so it seems to me Ace has exactly the right take and Rush too really got at the right core point.
Let the man rest in peace, and God bless his poor family (who have to live with this). Having known a couple of people suffering through depression I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Let the man rest in peace, and God bless his poor family (who have to live with this). Having known a couple of people suffering through depression I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Posted by: MTF at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (LISuA)
198
Vic posted this early today but it can't be posted enough. Jeff Sessions is urging us to CALL your senators & ask where they stand on Executive Amnesty!!!
Jeff *is* my Senator.
Jeff *is* my Senator.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (QupBk)
199
Posted by: Maetenloch at August 13, 2014 05:19 PM (pAlYe
Lots of the atypicals double as sedatives so there's something to it when you're dealing with bipolar and anxiety.
Lots of the atypicals double as sedatives so there's something to it when you're dealing with bipolar and anxiety.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (HDwDg)
200
And now for something completely different, not mentally ill at all, and joyful to boot. The Dutch Ministry of Justice says that ISIS is a Jewish conspiracy to blacken Islam's name. From WZ.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (XUKZU)
201
Here's the thing. People loved what he did. He made them laugh and he made them happy. There will always an overflow of attention when somebody like him goes before his generation ages away.
I agree with some of the view about the nihilism aspect. There a lot of nihilists out there esp in the media. I don't people are intentionally call others to nihilism, it's not expressly political... Nobody is going to actively advocate nihilism... But there is a popular view that what you do doesn't matter... For some this is liberating... For others it's defeating.
Purpose keeps a person alive.
I agree with some of the view about the nihilism aspect. There a lot of nihilists out there esp in the media. I don't people are intentionally call others to nihilism, it's not expressly political... Nobody is going to actively advocate nihilism... But there is a popular view that what you do doesn't matter... For some this is liberating... For others it's defeating.
Purpose keeps a person alive.
Posted by: Former Mass Resident at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (xV6So)
202
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:22 PM (HDwDg)
There's often a great deal of trial and error involved, as you've discovered from first hand experience. That can be hard to deal with.
There's often a great deal of trial and error involved, as you've discovered from first hand experience. That can be hard to deal with.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (mx5oN)
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (VhqUZ)
204
103 Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done. Quitting drinking was bad, but smoking was tortuous. Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by
Quitter.
Quitter.
Posted by: flounder at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (sDapq)
205
Hey, I had several dogs end up on the farm too.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:26 PM (32Ze2)
206
Free of the torture, I suppose they meant.
dunno
odd tweet
(btw, HotAir has "Boots on the Ground" update.
Update: U.S. Marines, Special Forces reportedly land on Mount Sinjar )
And, Science.
'Trojan horse' gold nanoparticles treatment could beat brain tumors from Insty link
pretty cool.
Free of the torture, I suppose they meant.
dunno
odd tweet
(btw, HotAir has "Boots on the Ground" update.
Update: U.S. Marines, Special Forces reportedly land on Mount Sinjar )
And, Science.
'Trojan horse' gold nanoparticles treatment could beat brain tumors from Insty link
pretty cool.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:26 PM (IXrOn)
207
You are axing the wrong way. Tell him you are ADD. Ritalin is just fucking speed.
Take the test. Blow the test. Set for life.
Take the test. Blow the test. Set for life.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 05:26 PM (Pvw07)
208
204
103 Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done. Quitting
drinking was bad, but smoking was tortuous. Posted by: Truck Monkey, as
Voiced by
Reminds me of the T shirt my bush pilot in Alaska was wearing.
"Rehab is for quitters" He was sober in the plane, I think.
103 Quitting smoking was the hardest thing I've ever done. Quitting
drinking was bad, but smoking was tortuous. Posted by: Truck Monkey, as
Voiced by
Reminds me of the T shirt my bush pilot in Alaska was wearing.
"Rehab is for quitters" He was sober in the plane, I think.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:27 PM (0FSuD)
209
>>Anyway the TL;DR is this shit is an art not a science and I think that scares some people away.
I think another factor is the gulf between the folks doing actual counseling/psychotherapy and the MDs/psychiatrists prescribing the meds. We have friends in the mental health profession and I gather that few psychiatrists actual do the counseling. They do an assessment, but not talk therapy. My advice to anyone seeking help with depression is to look long and hard for a psychiatrist who is a licensed clinical psychologist and/or work with a talk therapist who is part of a practice that includes a psychiatrist. Don't just get drugs from some MD.
I think another factor is the gulf between the folks doing actual counseling/psychotherapy and the MDs/psychiatrists prescribing the meds. We have friends in the mental health profession and I gather that few psychiatrists actual do the counseling. They do an assessment, but not talk therapy. My advice to anyone seeking help with depression is to look long and hard for a psychiatrist who is a licensed clinical psychologist and/or work with a talk therapist who is part of a practice that includes a psychiatrist. Don't just get drugs from some MD.
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:27 PM (zDsvJ)
210
157 Suicides kill more than the person committing the act. It is both selfish and aggressive. What man goes into the next room and kills himself while his wife sleeps in the next room? My opinion is that he was killing her as much as he was killing himself.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (32Ze2)
She was out running errands. I would also point out emphatically, that a person with a mental illness is not thinking clearly. To call it selfish is bullshit. He did not will this on himself and he did look a mess in photos.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:14 PM (32Ze2)
She was out running errands. I would also point out emphatically, that a person with a mental illness is not thinking clearly. To call it selfish is bullshit. He did not will this on himself and he did look a mess in photos.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 05:27 PM (QZcg+)
211
Williams had serious money problems and a couple of divorces under his belt.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis
Larry King has something like half a dozen divorces, yet manages to keep his act together.
Williams had serious money problems and a couple of divorces under his belt.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis
Larry King has something like half a dozen divorces, yet manages to keep his act together.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (kdS6q)
212
Take the test. Blow the test. Set for life.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 05:26 PM (Pvw07
Hey, it worked for me. How you think I wrote all those books?
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 05:26 PM (Pvw07
Hey, it worked for me. How you think I wrote all those books?
Posted by: Zombie William F Buckley at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (0FSuD)
213
Julia Ioffe @juliaioffe 37m
Um, nobody knows where the Russian humanitarian convoy is and the Red Cross is saying it's not sure what's in it. http://newsru.com/world/13aug2014/konvoy.html
Um, nobody knows where the Russian humanitarian convoy is and the Red Cross is saying it's not sure what's in it. http://newsru.com/world/13aug2014/konvoy.html
Posted by: Doom News at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (ZPrif)
214
Tell him you are ADD
---
Yeah, doctors totally believe you when you just show up and announce your diagnosis. They love that shit.
ADHD drugs are actually a huge PITA to get from the doc and the pharmacy.
---
Yeah, doctors totally believe you when you just show up and announce your diagnosis. They love that shit.
ADHD drugs are actually a huge PITA to get from the doc and the pharmacy.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (LvYhO)
215
196 190
Everyone can get all these meds but when I ask my doctor for some speed it's like all No No No.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (QupBk)
You are axing the wrong way. Tell him you are ADD. Ritalin is just fucking speed.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (0FSuD)
The interesting thing is that for people who truly have ADD, amphetamines and other stimulants have the opposite effect. They have a calming and focusing effect. It's also why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine and/or shitloads of coffee.
Everyone can get all these meds but when I ask my doctor for some speed it's like all No No No.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:23 PM (QupBk)
You are axing the wrong way. Tell him you are ADD. Ritalin is just fucking speed.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:24 PM (0FSuD)
The interesting thing is that for people who truly have ADD, amphetamines and other stimulants have the opposite effect. They have a calming and focusing effect. It's also why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine and/or shitloads of coffee.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (mx5oN)
216
Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:25 PM (mx5oN)
Having it be fucked up for my wife's entire life was hard to deal with.
(The family was convinced the manic episodes were just "[MIL] being [MIL]"
I was totally comfortable with the trial and error knowing we'd get it right at some point (Things have been fairly better the last 18 months).
I was pissed that the family accused the ethicist of sedating someone to make the trouble go away.
At some point they need to trust that my wife and I got a handle on this (we've accomplished more in 3 years than they have in 35.)
Having it be fucked up for my wife's entire life was hard to deal with.
(The family was convinced the manic episodes were just "[MIL] being [MIL]"
I was totally comfortable with the trial and error knowing we'd get it right at some point (Things have been fairly better the last 18 months).
I was pissed that the family accused the ethicist of sedating someone to make the trouble go away.
At some point they need to trust that my wife and I got a handle on this (we've accomplished more in 3 years than they have in 35.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (HDwDg)
217
OT: just found out that when we move from Texas to Delaware, if we wish to transport our guns with us, we have to avoid Maryland at all cost due to their new extremely restrictive gun laws. Which adds an entire day to our trip because we have to go through WVA to western PA, all the way across PA to Philly then down through Delaware.
Unless we get lucky and this law is found unconstitutional before then. We can always cross our fingers I guess.
Unless we get lucky and this law is found unconstitutional before then. We can always cross our fingers I guess.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:29 PM (KuU4f)
218
Larry King has something like half a dozen divorces, yet manages to keep his act together.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (kdS6q)
Yeah, but I believe King is a pretty observant Jew. He has faith.
Larry King has something like half a dozen divorces, yet manages to keep his act together.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (kdS6q)
Yeah, but I believe King is a pretty observant Jew. He has faith.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:29 PM (0FSuD)
219
The IS can have the Dutch then.....see how they like living under their version of sharia law, ha.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:30 PM (uZwoq)
220
Rehab is where you make more connections.
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (jtgkZ)
221
She was out running errands.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless
The time-line I saw earlier was they slept in separate bedrooms. Williams killed himself in his room. Wife was unaware of what had happened and left to do errands. But she was in the house when he did the deed.
She was out running errands.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless
The time-line I saw earlier was they slept in separate bedrooms. Williams killed himself in his room. Wife was unaware of what had happened and left to do errands. But she was in the house when he did the deed.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (kdS6q)
222
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 05:27 PM (zDsvJ)
This:
Psychiatrists these days are all about prescribing pills and managing side effects.
When is sorta "meh." It works.
Studies have shown the combination of drugs and Talk Therapy work better than either individually.
(We never got rid of MIL's slight paranoia about talk therapy, so we had to abandon it. Hell it took major intervention to get her to go to the psychiatrist again.)
This:
Psychiatrists these days are all about prescribing pills and managing side effects.
When is sorta "meh." It works.
Studies have shown the combination of drugs and Talk Therapy work better than either individually.
(We never got rid of MIL's slight paranoia about talk therapy, so we had to abandon it. Hell it took major intervention to get her to go to the psychiatrist again.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (HDwDg)
223
Dutch learned nothing from Theo Van Gogh?
Dutch learned nothing from Theo Van Gogh?
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (xvH+/)
224
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:29 PM (KuU4f)
***********
Just cross the Bay in Virginia Beach. Take you chances on the little slice of MD you have to run through. You should make it.
***********
Just cross the Bay in Virginia Beach. Take you chances on the little slice of MD you have to run through. You should make it.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (32Ze2)
225
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (HDwDg)
I'm sorry for what you're going through, and that the extended family is being such a pain in the ass about it.
I'm sorry for what you're going through, and that the extended family is being such a pain in the ass about it.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (mx5oN)
226
Ace,
I heard of Williamson 7 pm EDT radio news & I was out doing errands. I read that the assistant called police at 11:45 am PDT.
News on the radio didn't specify & said it was too soon to know details.
I heard of Williamson 7 pm EDT radio news & I was out doing errands. I read that the assistant called police at 11:45 am PDT.
News on the radio didn't specify & said it was too soon to know details.
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 05:32 PM (/kI1Q)
228
ADHD drugs are actually a huge PITA to get from the doc and the pharmacy.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (LvYhO)
Yeah, I know. My X wife swore I was ADD and made me take all the tests. Like a dumb ass I passed and wasn't ADD. Turns out I appear to be smarter than your average bear. Not that you could tell at the HQ.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (LvYhO)
Yeah, I know. My X wife swore I was ADD and made me take all the tests. Like a dumb ass I passed and wasn't ADD. Turns out I appear to be smarter than your average bear. Not that you could tell at the HQ.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:32 PM (0FSuD)
229
>>Yeah, but I believe King is a pretty observant Jew. He has faith.
Does he suffer from mental illness?
Prayer doesn't cure clinical depression.
Does he suffer from mental illness?
Prayer doesn't cure clinical depression.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 13, 2014 05:33 PM (g1DWB)
230
Posted by: UnderCoverInLA at August 13, 2014 05:04 PM (UdaXp)
I think I remember you talking about this before on HA. Anyway, I dont' think your brother's problem was mere depression. Sorry that your family had to deal with all this.
I think I remember you talking about this before on HA. Anyway, I dont' think your brother's problem was mere depression. Sorry that your family had to deal with all this.
Posted by: Pug the Boneless at August 13, 2014 05:33 PM (QZcg+)
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:33 PM (xvH+/)
232
OT: just found out that when we move from Texas to Delaware, if we wish to transport our guns with us, we have to avoid Maryland at all cost due to their new extremely restrictive gun laws.
Not a problem. I transport guns through Maryland all the time. Just make sure the door is closed.
Not a problem. I transport guns through Maryland all the time. Just make sure the door is closed.
Posted by: Joe Biden at August 13, 2014 05:34 PM (J0IP0)
233
The interesting thing is that for people who truly have ADD, amphetamines and other stimulants have the opposite effect. They have a calming and focusing effect.
The best proof? Walk into a casino. All the lights, bells, & noises are like a thousand squirrels running in every direction.
Now? No problem.
The best proof? Walk into a casino. All the lights, bells, & noises are like a thousand squirrels running in every direction.
Now? No problem.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 05:34 PM (Pvw07)
234
Speaking medically, it is extremely common for depressed people to suddenly kill themselves at the point that they are just starting to get a little better. Shrinks know this is the most vulnerable time.
This makes it even harder on the family and friends for obvious reasons.
Like so many, my family has been torn by suicide.
Williams' kids, although mostly grown, are going to struggle with this for life. It's like having a child die: You never really get over it, you just learn to live with it.
This makes it even harder on the family and friends for obvious reasons.
Like so many, my family has been torn by suicide.
Williams' kids, although mostly grown, are going to struggle with this for life. It's like having a child die: You never really get over it, you just learn to live with it.
Posted by: Daybrother at August 13, 2014 05:35 PM (BUsKl)
235
228 ADHD
Too many people are being diagnosed as having ADHD. They tried to convince my Daughter that my Grand son had it because he didn't pay attention in class. Got her to try medication. Put him in a stupor. That was enough for her. He just needed to "mature." Now he's an excellent student...
Too many people are being diagnosed as having ADHD. They tried to convince my Daughter that my Grand son had it because he didn't pay attention in class. Got her to try medication. Put him in a stupor. That was enough for her. He just needed to "mature." Now he's an excellent student...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:35 PM (9+ccr)
236
Just cross the Bay in Virginia Beach. Take you chances on the little slice of MD you have to run through. You should make it.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (32Ze2)
Yes, because a Maryland State Trooper who sees a moving truck and car with Texas license plates won't immediately pull them over so they can get their thousands of dollars, confiscate their weapons and possibly throw them in jail, will they?
Yeah, no, we aren't taking that chance, sorry.
Posted by: Truck Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (32Ze2)
Yes, because a Maryland State Trooper who sees a moving truck and car with Texas license plates won't immediately pull them over so they can get their thousands of dollars, confiscate their weapons and possibly throw them in jail, will they?
Yeah, no, we aren't taking that chance, sorry.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:35 PM (KuU4f)
237
There is no shortage of sick fucks on Twitter;
Robin Williams Dead: Actor's Daughter Zelda Williams Quits Twitter After Being Sent Fake Photos Of Star's Body
http://tinyurl.com/o9d3rm8
Robin Williams Dead: Actor's Daughter Zelda Williams Quits Twitter After Being Sent Fake Photos Of Star's Body
http://tinyurl.com/o9d3rm8
Posted by: kbdabear at August 13, 2014 05:35 PM (aTXUx)
238
Suicide should be treated with kid gloves.
May Robin Williams rest in peace.
Whatever his problems, at this point, don't drag him through mire, nor admire his choice.
Rush Limbaugh has his own personality flaw pushing the limits of good taste on certain topics, stepping into his own shit and insisting it's gold.
Whether true or not, a documentary postulated a Native American belief that if you save a person, you are forever obligated to that life which you saved.
If you're not going to put yourself out personally to save the person ready to commit suicide, just keep your fat trap shut after the fact.
You can't "save" a life for a moment expecting all is well when that life's determination is and remains set to self destruct.
Our pro-life obligation is to help those in distress to find their love for higher Self by love in God who loves each of us entirely, even if god is seen a mere flicker of inner light and beauty in our heart, imagination, mind.
You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. You can't brow beat a depressed person into loving what they've lost faith in believing.
True enough, there are horrible times in life when a person absolutely needs good counseling and good emotional support system that enables healing rather than either wallowing or replacing one set of unrealistic expectations with another "new, improved" set of unrealistic expectations.
Over the years, I've heard different M.D. interviews advising the troubled and distraught to avoid psychiatry and seek counsel from a psychologist whose career is not stringing along patients into perpetual victimosophy, prescribed lifelong mood enhancers with worse negative long term effects (suicidal tendencies; lethal over time) than whatever promised boon.
It's hardly our place to advise others beyond sharing what limited understanding we might have.
Neither is it for Rush to nationally broadcast anything beyond, "Sorry to see Robin is gone; we'll miss him," and give a wake of fond memories, with Limbaugh's commercial breaks featuring a public announcement prepared by a suicide crisis center.
That would show real class on Rush's part.
I'll remember Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society.
May Robin Williams rest in peace.
Whatever his problems, at this point, don't drag him through mire, nor admire his choice.
Rush Limbaugh has his own personality flaw pushing the limits of good taste on certain topics, stepping into his own shit and insisting it's gold.
Whether true or not, a documentary postulated a Native American belief that if you save a person, you are forever obligated to that life which you saved.
If you're not going to put yourself out personally to save the person ready to commit suicide, just keep your fat trap shut after the fact.
You can't "save" a life for a moment expecting all is well when that life's determination is and remains set to self destruct.
Our pro-life obligation is to help those in distress to find their love for higher Self by love in God who loves each of us entirely, even if god is seen a mere flicker of inner light and beauty in our heart, imagination, mind.
You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. You can't brow beat a depressed person into loving what they've lost faith in believing.
True enough, there are horrible times in life when a person absolutely needs good counseling and good emotional support system that enables healing rather than either wallowing or replacing one set of unrealistic expectations with another "new, improved" set of unrealistic expectations.
Over the years, I've heard different M.D. interviews advising the troubled and distraught to avoid psychiatry and seek counsel from a psychologist whose career is not stringing along patients into perpetual victimosophy, prescribed lifelong mood enhancers with worse negative long term effects (suicidal tendencies; lethal over time) than whatever promised boon.
It's hardly our place to advise others beyond sharing what limited understanding we might have.
Neither is it for Rush to nationally broadcast anything beyond, "Sorry to see Robin is gone; we'll miss him," and give a wake of fond memories, with Limbaugh's commercial breaks featuring a public announcement prepared by a suicide crisis center.
That would show real class on Rush's part.
I'll remember Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society.
Posted by: panzernashorn at August 13, 2014 05:36 PM (TfAS/)
239
Unless we get lucky and this law is found unconstitutional before then. We can always cross our fingers I guess.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:29 PM (KuU4f)
You sound like the perfect test case.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:29 PM (KuU4f)
You sound like the perfect test case.
Posted by: flounder at August 13, 2014 05:36 PM (sDapq)
240
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:31 PM (mx5oN
Meh, that's life.
If my PhD program does nothing else it was beneficial for helping me deal with all this.
The family has politicians disease.
"DO SOMETHING" (TM) regardless if "something" is actually helpful (or worse, counter productive.)
It makes them feel good about themselves (and I think calms their conscience over the fuckups of the past that put us in the situation of dealing with everything, MIL is disabled from a previous head injury as well, likely related to a manic episode.)
I have faith this'll all work out at some point (or at least end.)
Meh, that's life.
If my PhD program does nothing else it was beneficial for helping me deal with all this.
The family has politicians disease.
"DO SOMETHING" (TM) regardless if "something" is actually helpful (or worse, counter productive.)
It makes them feel good about themselves (and I think calms their conscience over the fuckups of the past that put us in the situation of dealing with everything, MIL is disabled from a previous head injury as well, likely related to a manic episode.)
I have faith this'll all work out at some point (or at least end.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:36 PM (HDwDg)
241
They have a calming and focusing effect. It's also
why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine
and/or shitloads of coffee.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (mx5oN)
True dat. In spite of passing all the tests, I think I probably have mild ADD. When I take benadryl it wakes me up instead of making me sleepy. Same with Hydrocodone.
why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine
and/or shitloads of coffee.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:28 PM (mx5oN)
True dat. In spite of passing all the tests, I think I probably have mild ADD. When I take benadryl it wakes me up instead of making me sleepy. Same with Hydrocodone.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:36 PM (0FSuD)
242
To call them "cowards" -- as Shep Smith did
Homosexuals. Viscious, self-loathing, catty, back-biting, gossip queens and.... cowardly.
It's all a pattern.
Homosexuals. Viscious, self-loathing, catty, back-biting, gossip queens and.... cowardly.
It's all a pattern.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at August 13, 2014 05:37 PM (seuC9)
243
Suicide has its effect on people who hear about it. It's called the suicide contagion. The odds of someone committing suicide are significantly higher if they know someone who commits suicide. Higher still if they are close or related to that person. The CDC has guidelines for the media on suicide for that very reason.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
Posted by: bskb at August 13, 2014 05:37 PM (4KWOY)
244
Yeah, I'm on of the ones who gets much calmer on Stimulants. Any of y'all who were reading this site back when Zimmerman was first arrested got a sight of me sans caffeine and Adderall. That was...unpleasant. Sorry.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:37 PM (LvYhO)
245
Oy, piece at WSJ advocating hillary for potus.
The Message From That Hillary Interview
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what?
Oy, piece at WSJ advocating hillary for potus.
The Message From That Hillary Interview
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (IXrOn)
246
Nip Sip, how long ago were you tested?
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (LvYhO)
247
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:36 PM (HDwDg)
I certainly wish you all the best with the situation.
I certainly wish you all the best with the situation.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (mx5oN)
248
You can ship your guns to a licensed gun dealer through UPS or Fedex and not worry about it.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (0FSuD)
249
My usual rant is that alcohol is a depressant. It makes you depressed. Alcoholics always think they are the only people that aren't affected by it that way. It may make you think you are having fun, because it loosens social inhibitions. If you are sober around a bunch of drunks, you'll realize how depressed they are.
And, I'll mention this again, suicide in a family leads to more suicides. Michael Hutchence-Paula Yates-Peaches Geldorf. Yeah it really is something we should be discussing.
And, I'll mention this again, suicide in a family leads to more suicides. Michael Hutchence-Paula Yates-Peaches Geldorf. Yeah it really is something we should be discussing.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (Lqy/e)
250
245
Oy, piece at WSJ advocating hillary for potus.
The Message From That Hillary Interview
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what
You sure that's not from the Onion?
Oy, piece at WSJ advocating hillary for potus.
The Message From That Hillary Interview
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what
You sure that's not from the Onion?
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (9+ccr)
251
Tsrblke,
I'm sorry your wife had to grow up with her mother mentally off balance. I tried several times to use word 'I'll" but frigging iPad keeps changing it to contraction for word I will, even when I put it in quotes!
ILL! All caps fixed it.
I'm sorry your wife had to grow up with her mother mentally off balance. I tried several times to use word 'I'll" but frigging iPad keeps changing it to contraction for word I will, even when I put it in quotes!
ILL! All caps fixed it.
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (sj3Ax)
252
Yeah, no, we aren't taking that chance, sorry.
Yeah, I second that. My girlfriend and I went on a big-ass road trip in May/June, and drove from upstate New York to Michigan by way of Canada. They asked us several times in several ways what kind of weapons we were carrying (none, mainly because we were also going to DC). My girlfriend is convinced it was because of the Texas plates.
Yeah, I second that. My girlfriend and I went on a big-ass road trip in May/June, and drove from upstate New York to Michigan by way of Canada. They asked us several times in several ways what kind of weapons we were carrying (none, mainly because we were also going to DC). My girlfriend is convinced it was because of the Texas plates.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (J0IP0)
253
I understand the point Ace is trying to make on the media coverage of a suicide -- but are we maybe overthinking this a little much. I think many of us experienced our lives as people like Robin Williams progressed through their careers. The media is just focusing on the death of someone who has been a constant presence for many of us -- though the suicide does admittedly give them the angle of a sad clown.
But I think the reason for the amount of coverage is becauseRobin Williamswasa shared experience -- like the moon landing, the 1980 U.S. Olympic Hockey team or, less happily, 9/11. The media just wants eyeballs -- and they will definitely get it through talking about Robin Williams given his impact on popular culture.
Robin Williams was also,for all the other things you could say about him,a great comedian and great actor with a very long career. For many of us of a certain age, he has been a presence in nearly all of our conscious lives.
As a young kid in the 70s, I remember watching (and loving him) on "Mork and Mindy". In High School, I loved him in "Good Morning Vietnam" and "Dead Poets Society" (which, for an overly romantic kid with dreams of being an actor, was an incredible movie). In college, there was "Awakenings" and "Mrs. Doubtfire".As a younger adult, I saw himin "Good Will Hunting" amd the "Bird Cage". And it goes on and on.
As tween/teenager, I loved his comedy. Though as I have gotten older,itcame to seem, at times,a bit too rapid fire and desperate.As an adult, what I found to be truly touching about him was the strengthy of his serious roles. Hischaracters -- whether of the helpful and kind teacher, doctor or therapist;or thereclusive and creepy photo developer -- seemed to beinhabited by a sad and lonely man. He clearly was channeling himself into those roles. Both his comedy and his dramatic acting seemed to be a cry for attention (and, having knowna fair share of actors, is pretty much a job requirement - though in his case there seemed to be a particularly sad and needy hunger behind that cry).
Anyway, I did not know Robin Williams. But I grew up with him in a way. He entertained me as child -- and now as my parents are aging and their personalities are slowly(and not so slowly inone case)leaving them-- I remember the smilesMork brought me as Isat in my Dallas Cowboy pajamas on the floor of my dandelion yellow carpet in the den of our house. Iremembermy romantic stupidity as I watched Dead Poets Societywith my high school girlfriend.And I remember watching my now wife fall asleep on the sofa while we watched Insomia (which, as I write this seems ironic on several levels).
Its hard to mourn someone you really don't know. But in my selfish case, I think I feel sad because something that has been taken as a given in my life -- even if only a small part of it -- is no longer there. When you hit your 40s a lot of things that you feltwould always be there (even if youknew they wouldn't) start to disappear. Robin Williams is one of those things for me.
I think he is one of those things for lots of people, which is why the media is covering this in an admittely sentimental way. But we are humans, we are sentimental and we want to have a common and shared experience sometimes.
I did start out this post by saying we should not overthink this -- didn't I? I guess I overthought it.
But I think the reason for the amount of coverage is becauseRobin Williamswasa shared experience -- like the moon landing, the 1980 U.S. Olympic Hockey team or, less happily, 9/11. The media just wants eyeballs -- and they will definitely get it through talking about Robin Williams given his impact on popular culture.
Robin Williams was also,for all the other things you could say about him,a great comedian and great actor with a very long career. For many of us of a certain age, he has been a presence in nearly all of our conscious lives.
As a young kid in the 70s, I remember watching (and loving him) on "Mork and Mindy". In High School, I loved him in "Good Morning Vietnam" and "Dead Poets Society" (which, for an overly romantic kid with dreams of being an actor, was an incredible movie). In college, there was "Awakenings" and "Mrs. Doubtfire".As a younger adult, I saw himin "Good Will Hunting" amd the "Bird Cage". And it goes on and on.
As tween/teenager, I loved his comedy. Though as I have gotten older,itcame to seem, at times,a bit too rapid fire and desperate.As an adult, what I found to be truly touching about him was the strengthy of his serious roles. Hischaracters -- whether of the helpful and kind teacher, doctor or therapist;or thereclusive and creepy photo developer -- seemed to beinhabited by a sad and lonely man. He clearly was channeling himself into those roles. Both his comedy and his dramatic acting seemed to be a cry for attention (and, having knowna fair share of actors, is pretty much a job requirement - though in his case there seemed to be a particularly sad and needy hunger behind that cry).
Anyway, I did not know Robin Williams. But I grew up with him in a way. He entertained me as child -- and now as my parents are aging and their personalities are slowly(and not so slowly inone case)leaving them-- I remember the smilesMork brought me as Isat in my Dallas Cowboy pajamas on the floor of my dandelion yellow carpet in the den of our house. Iremembermy romantic stupidity as I watched Dead Poets Societywith my high school girlfriend.And I remember watching my now wife fall asleep on the sofa while we watched Insomia (which, as I write this seems ironic on several levels).
Its hard to mourn someone you really don't know. But in my selfish case, I think I feel sad because something that has been taken as a given in my life -- even if only a small part of it -- is no longer there. When you hit your 40s a lot of things that you feltwould always be there (even if youknew they wouldn't) start to disappear. Robin Williams is one of those things for me.
I think he is one of those things for lots of people, which is why the media is covering this in an admittely sentimental way. But we are humans, we are sentimental and we want to have a common and shared experience sometimes.
I did start out this post by saying we should not overthink this -- didn't I? I guess I overthought it.
Posted by: nc at August 13, 2014 05:40 PM (/KrYu)
254
You know what's fun on a date? When the girl feels California Comfortable enough to mention her suicide attempts. The psychological equivalent of leaving the bathroom door open.
The look on my face when she brought that topic up.....
You know what's fun on a date? When the girl feels California Comfortable enough to mention her suicide attempts. The psychological equivalent of leaving the bathroom door open.
The look on my face when she brought that topic up.....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:41 PM (kdS6q)
255
246
Nip Sip, how long ago were you tested?
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (LvYhO)
Seven years ago. Did a complete psycho examine to prove I was not crazy, like X thought. Pretty neat shit, BUT expensive as hell.
Of course, she didn't believe the results. It didn't fit what she wanted to believe.
Nip Sip, how long ago were you tested?
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (LvYhO)
Seven years ago. Did a complete psycho examine to prove I was not crazy, like X thought. Pretty neat shit, BUT expensive as hell.
Of course, she didn't believe the results. It didn't fit what she wanted to believe.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:42 PM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:42 PM (LvYhO)
257
254
You know what's fun on a date? When the girl feels California Comfortable enough to mention her suicide attempts. The psychological equivalent of leaving the bathroom door open.
The look on my face when she brought that topic up.....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:41 PM (kdS6q)
Wow. Was that a first date?
You know what's fun on a date? When the girl feels California Comfortable enough to mention her suicide attempts. The psychological equivalent of leaving the bathroom door open.
The look on my face when she brought that topic up.....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:41 PM (kdS6q)
Wow. Was that a first date?
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 05:42 PM (mx5oN)
258
BTW, sending uncensored pics of ISIS atrocities on Twitter is NOT helping things. It's like watching endless loops from "Faces of Death"
Disturbing images are very hard to get out of the mind and some like me get pissed at you for doing that.
General descriptions of the atrocities are enough, graphic pictures just make people want to talk about ANYTHING else.
Disturbing images are very hard to get out of the mind and some like me get pissed at you for doing that.
General descriptions of the atrocities are enough, graphic pictures just make people want to talk about ANYTHING else.
Posted by: kbdabear at August 13, 2014 05:43 PM (aTXUx)
259
You sure that's not from the Onion?
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (9+ccr)
Michael R. Strain @MichaelRStrain
Read @BillGalston's new column: Mrs. Clinton would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since Bush 41.
http://tinyurl.com/mau8oft
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (9+ccr)
Michael R. Strain @MichaelRStrain
Read @BillGalston's new column: Mrs. Clinton would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since Bush 41.
http://tinyurl.com/mau8oft
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:43 PM (IXrOn)
260
I tell you boys, women can kill. Poontang's expensive.
Posted by: Mr. Garrison at August 13, 2014 05:43 PM (xKIE3)
261
You know what's fun on a date? When the girl feels California Comfortable enough to mention her suicide attempts. The psychological equivalent of leaving the bathroom door open.
On the plus side, you know you're going to score.
On the plus side, you know you're going to score.
Posted by: toby928(C) at August 13, 2014 05:43 PM (QupBk)
262
He went to live on a farm......
Oh, well, that's nice. I was afraid something bad happened to him.
Dogs and cats love farms.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:17 PM (xvH+/)
Heh.
I had a Siamese named Sox that actually DID go live on a farm, my BiL's raisin farm.
Within 3 months, some coyotes ISIS'ed Sox. Which really freaked out the kids when they found the head.
He went to live on a farm......
Oh, well, that's nice. I was afraid something bad happened to him.
Dogs and cats love farms.
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:17 PM (xvH+/)
Heh.
I had a Siamese named Sox that actually DID go live on a farm, my BiL's raisin farm.
Within 3 months, some coyotes ISIS'ed Sox. Which really freaked out the kids when they found the head.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (TIIx5)
263
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (sj3Ax)
Eh, we're all broken in some way.
On the up side she took to my family (despite our flaws) fairly well so there's at least no tension there.
Eh, we're all broken in some way.
On the up side she took to my family (despite our flaws) fairly well so there's at least no tension there.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 5 months! at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (kdS6q)
265
They have a calming and focusing effect. It's also
why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine
and/or shitloads of coffee.
I have 2 daughters with ADD. With the youngest, it was obvious. We took #2 to the doctor, and when he described the symptoms, we knew immediately that #4 was the worse case. Occasionally, when she was particularly unfocused, we'd ask her if she took her pill that day. With almost 100% accuracy, she hadn't. It runs in my wife's family.
All of my kids are extremely bright (buffs nails), and I'm convinced there is a connection between higher than average processing speed and ADD.
ADD is over diagnosed, but certainly not in all cases.
why you sometimes find people with ADD self medicating with nicotine
and/or shitloads of coffee.
I have 2 daughters with ADD. With the youngest, it was obvious. We took #2 to the doctor, and when he described the symptoms, we knew immediately that #4 was the worse case. Occasionally, when she was particularly unfocused, we'd ask her if she took her pill that day. With almost 100% accuracy, she hadn't. It runs in my wife's family.
All of my kids are extremely bright (buffs nails), and I'm convinced there is a connection between higher than average processing speed and ADD.
ADD is over diagnosed, but certainly not in all cases.
Posted by: pep at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (4nR9/)
266
Oh, I was gonna say if it was a long time ago they have different tests now.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (LvYhO)
267
259 You sure that's not from the Onion?
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (9+ccr)
Michael R. Strain @MichaelRStrain
Read @BillGalston's new column: Mrs. Clinton would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since Bush 41.
http://tinyurl.com/mau8oft
We are soooo screwed...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (9+ccr)
Michael R. Strain @MichaelRStrain
Read @BillGalston's new column: Mrs. Clinton would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since Bush 41.
http://tinyurl.com/mau8oft
We are soooo screwed...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (9+ccr)
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (0FSuD)
269
Read @BillGalston's new column: Mrs. Clinton would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since Bush 41.
You learn through mistakes... Unfortunately Mrs. Clinton's have been very costly
You learn through mistakes... Unfortunately Mrs. Clinton's have been very costly
Posted by: Ambassador Stephens at August 13, 2014 05:45 PM (xKIE3)
270
248
You can ship your guns to a licensed gun dealer through UPS or Fedex and not worry about it.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (0FSuD)
That's the other thing we're looking into. I would assume the dealer would charge us some sort of holding/processing fee. It's definitely an option.
Fortunately, it doesn't matter for the near future, but it was just like....oooookkkkkk...guess Maryland is full of asshole judges/legislators.
You can ship your guns to a licensed gun dealer through UPS or Fedex and not worry about it.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (0FSuD)
That's the other thing we're looking into. I would assume the dealer would charge us some sort of holding/processing fee. It's definitely an option.
Fortunately, it doesn't matter for the near future, but it was just like....oooookkkkkk...guess Maryland is full of asshole judges/legislators.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:45 PM (KuU4f)
271
We are soooo screwed...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (9+ccr)
Galston worked for Bill Clinton...
He's the author.
We are soooo screwed...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:44 PM (9+ccr)
Galston worked for Bill Clinton...
He's the author.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:45 PM (IXrOn)
272
I've had close contact with an almost suicide. He's my husband and for the past 5 years, I've watched him like a hawk and am living on eggshells. I just never know.
Posted by: Russkilitloverr at August 13, 2014 05:46 PM (vz3oV)
273
@270
DON'T drive to NJ! That poor Black women from Philly got arrested for carrying a gun WITH a CCW
DON'T drive to NJ! That poor Black women from Philly got arrested for carrying a gun WITH a CCW
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:47 PM (0FSuD)
274
Some 20 people have survived the jump from the Golden Gate Bridge (a tiny fraction of the total).
To a man, they ALL say that the moment their feet left the span, they thought OH, SHIT -- and to a man, they're all GLAD they didn't succeed in killing themselves.
Food for thought.
It really is true that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
To a man, they ALL say that the moment their feet left the span, they thought OH, SHIT -- and to a man, they're all GLAD they didn't succeed in killing themselves.
Food for thought.
It really is true that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Posted by: Beverly at August 13, 2014 05:47 PM (RUKBL)
275
272
I've had close contact with an almost suicide. He's my husband and for
the past 5 years, I've watched him like a hawk and am living on
eggshells. I just never know.
Posted by: Russkilitloverr
God bless you.
I've had close contact with an almost suicide. He's my husband and for
the past 5 years, I've watched him like a hawk and am living on
eggshells. I just never know.
Posted by: Russkilitloverr
God bless you.
Posted by: pep at August 13, 2014 05:47 PM (4nR9/)
276
Posted by: Russkilitloverr at August 13, 2014 05:46 PM (vz3oV)
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 05:48 PM (+xLeJ)
277
Sorry you are going through that.
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 05:48 PM (+xLeJ)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:48 PM (IXrOn)
279
DON'T drive to NJ! That poor Black women from Philly got arrested for carrying a gun WITH a CCW
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:47 PM (0FSuD)]/i]
Don't have to go to Jersey, just from W PA to E PA then down to DE. I wouldn't go to Jersey voluntarily anyway.
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:47 PM (0FSuD)]/i]
Don't have to go to Jersey, just from W PA to E PA then down to DE. I wouldn't go to Jersey voluntarily anyway.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:49 PM (KuU4f)
280
Never mind depression, What I want to know is, why are Americans in 2014 so obsessed with celebrities? Just creeps me out.
Posted by: Some Dope at August 13, 2014 05:49 PM (amkym)
281
Beverly -- I know the second it's too late I would be regretting like anchorman jumping in the bear pit.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:49 PM (VhqUZ)
282
I lost a friend to suicide a few years ago, and if he came back for one more day, I can't be sure if I would ask him why he never told me things were that bad, or if I would kick his ass for leaving his family like that. But the truth of it is, I can't ever know what was in the man's head. I know he loved his kids and would never have hurt them in his right mind, so I think the "suicides are selfish" thing is ignorant bullshit.
Posted by: UGAdawg at August 13, 2014 05:49 PM (6nZFS)
283
shit
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (KuU4f)
284
whoa, pixy saved me somehow
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (KuU4f)
285
Nip Sip,
I've been taking 2 Benadryl every 4 hours since I first tried it in mid July & it makes me nervous & jumpy & that is on top of taking enough muscle relaxers to sedate a horse & living on painkillers.
I've lost five pounds (that I can't afford) since I started taking them.
I was at local bakery Monday buying fattening cakes when I heard about Williams because I couldn't remember if bakery closed at 7 or 8 pm. I was there before 7 pm EDT.
I've been taking 2 Benadryl every 4 hours since I first tried it in mid July & it makes me nervous & jumpy & that is on top of taking enough muscle relaxers to sedate a horse & living on painkillers.
I've lost five pounds (that I can't afford) since I started taking them.
I was at local bakery Monday buying fattening cakes when I heard about Williams because I couldn't remember if bakery closed at 7 or 8 pm. I was there before 7 pm EDT.
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (sj3Ax)
286
Meanwhile,
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
Posted by: NCwoof at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (aUQgu)
287
DON'T drive to NJ! That poor Black women from Philly got arrested for carrying a gun WITH a CCW
Posted by: Nip Sip
No shit, I have to come here every year and I always feel naked, (shut up!) with out a gun.
DON'T drive to NJ! That poor Black women from Philly got arrested for carrying a gun WITH a CCW
Posted by: Nip Sip
No shit, I have to come here every year and I always feel naked, (shut up!) with out a gun.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (uZwoq)
288
One of my favorite Baptist preachers killed himself. I respected that guy as a preacher and as a man, and believe some of his former church members drove him to it. No excuses for him, because running that hose from the car exhaust to the window was a final solution to a temporary problem. That's how I see it. And yes, his family deserved better.
Posted by: Erowmero at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (go5uR)
289
By the way, the argument that people go to hell as suicide victims cannot be substantiated with any scripture, if one holds to a Judeo Christian doctrine. There simply is no scriptural backing for that belief. The only un-forgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
If any one here has suffered through the suicide of a loved one, please be comforted that they are not damned to eternal hell because of it.
If any one here has suffered through the suicide of a loved one, please be comforted that they are not damned to eternal hell because of it.
Posted by: Sambo at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (+xLeJ)
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (VhqUZ)
291
One thing about Robin Williams is that he forever changed animation.
Before Aladdin, animation voices were done by B-list stars (Andy Griffith, Eva Gabor, Bob Newhart come to mind -- good but not "movie stars" and never more than 2 in a movie) and professional voice actors.
After Aladdin, it became cool to do voice animation.
If you look at the cast list for Beauty and the Beast (the Disney film before Aladdin) and then Lion King (the one after) it's night and day.
The Toy Story films are full of actors who could get better gigs but decided the few days in the voice studio was worth the money.
I'm guessing it's because studios were willing to pay more for big-name voices, figuring they could market the movie better that way but it's also because there was no stigma to doing animation.
Before Aladdin, animation voices were done by B-list stars (Andy Griffith, Eva Gabor, Bob Newhart come to mind -- good but not "movie stars" and never more than 2 in a movie) and professional voice actors.
After Aladdin, it became cool to do voice animation.
If you look at the cast list for Beauty and the Beast (the Disney film before Aladdin) and then Lion King (the one after) it's night and day.
The Toy Story films are full of actors who could get better gigs but decided the few days in the voice studio was worth the money.
I'm guessing it's because studios were willing to pay more for big-name voices, figuring they could market the movie better that way but it's also because there was no stigma to doing animation.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (zIfHw)
Posted by: Soothsayer of The Righteous And Harmonious Fists (-414 days left until climate chaos) at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (xvH+/)
293
Gee depressing thread
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (nzKvP)
294
We should not be saying of suicides, "Now you're free, O blessed Spirit!"
I think that's sort of obvious. Isn't it?
--Ace
Not really if there is an afterlife. That's why I asked for mercy on his soul.
I think that's sort of obvious. Isn't it?
--Ace
Not really if there is an afterlife. That's why I asked for mercy on his soul.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (HVff2)
295
he Message From That Hillary Interview
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (IXrOn)
Actually, her statements on foreign policy were excellent based on the Goldberg interview. So good that the Weekly Standard hilariously published them as an op ed by Hill.
But she was a cluster of suck as SecState (although John Kerry has quickly surpassed her in such a short time, genius that he is), so um, let's not get excited, WSJ. Really.
But it does show she has a much more realistic view of the world than the current POTUS. Even if she doesn't really believe what she said, she at least knows enough to formulate the deception, which is more than we can say for Obama.
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
what?
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 13, 2014 05:38 PM (IXrOn)
Actually, her statements on foreign policy were excellent based on the Goldberg interview. So good that the Weekly Standard hilariously published them as an op ed by Hill.
But she was a cluster of suck as SecState (although John Kerry has quickly surpassed her in such a short time, genius that he is), so um, let's not get excited, WSJ. Really.
But it does show she has a much more realistic view of the world than the current POTUS. Even if she doesn't really believe what she said, she at least knows enough to formulate the deception, which is more than we can say for Obama.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (r+7wo)
296
Coming from a family of several suicides (Grandfather, possibly father, cousin) I absolutely agree with #249. It's often in the back of people's minds. They feel they have "permission" as it were because somebody else did it first. That doesn't make logical sense, but that's the way it can be. That's why people in the clergy and others often check on at risk family members at the anniversaries of previous suicides if they know the dates. And yes, alcohol is a depressant. That's how my mother self medicated her depression, Alcohol exacerbates the depression even though it is used as an escape.
So yes, we shouldn't really say "So and so's pain is over" Maybe it is, but there's still a lot of pain for years and years for the people who are left behind. Do I think it's a selfish act? No, because that would imply that people wanted to hurt their loved ones, generally they're don't. They are in so much pain that they think everyone would be better off without them-that they're miserable messes. That's the way the blackness affects the brain because when people feel better and are not depressed they know people wouldn't be better off without them.
If anything good comes out of this situation with RW, it's that people might feel freer to talk about their own depression and get some help before they make that fatal choice. There's help out there.
So yes, we shouldn't really say "So and so's pain is over" Maybe it is, but there's still a lot of pain for years and years for the people who are left behind. Do I think it's a selfish act? No, because that would imply that people wanted to hurt their loved ones, generally they're don't. They are in so much pain that they think everyone would be better off without them-that they're miserable messes. That's the way the blackness affects the brain because when people feel better and are not depressed they know people wouldn't be better off without them.
If anything good comes out of this situation with RW, it's that people might feel freer to talk about their own depression and get some help before they make that fatal choice. There's help out there.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (oyOpn)
297
Anyway, I'm going to wait for the next thread. I've been way too close to suicides my entire life, I just don't want to talk about it.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (KuU4f)
298
I had a college buddy, president of his fraternity, top in his class, hot girl friend.
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (0FSuD)
299
AOL does have picture of Koko mourning Williams. I'm sorry I don't remember who posted it above, but they are idiotic. I have that email address for things Comcast blocks.
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (sj3Ax)
300
The first few times somebody tried to get me to sit thru Mr. Doubtfire, I wanted to fucking kill myself too.
Posted by: Fritz at August 13, 2014 05:53 PM (3wLHY)
301
265
I'm actually not sure ADHD is over diagnosed. It's highly heritable and strongly correlated to unplanned pregnancy. Anecdotally, I have four biological kids and the side of my family with ADHD is full of people who had large families not-exactly-on-purpose. I hate to bring up Idiocracy, because ADHD =/= dumb, but....
I'm actually not sure ADHD is over diagnosed. It's highly heritable and strongly correlated to unplanned pregnancy. Anecdotally, I have four biological kids and the side of my family with ADHD is full of people who had large families not-exactly-on-purpose. I hate to bring up Idiocracy, because ADHD =/= dumb, but....
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at August 13, 2014 05:53 PM (LvYhO)
302
Too depressing for me. I think I'll go pull some weeds...
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at August 13, 2014 05:53 PM (9+ccr)
303
I know I'll always be grateful he hung himself, IYKWIMAITYD
Posted by: Tony Stewart at August 13, 2014 05:54 PM (LQm1p)
304
290
Wait -- Delaware is really a place?
I thought they just made that shit up.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (VhqUZ)
No no, we have lot's of 7-11's! Come in for a Slushy
Wait -- Delaware is really a place?
I thought they just made that shit up.
Posted by: eleven at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (VhqUZ)
No no, we have lot's of 7-11's! Come in for a Slushy
Posted by: Jugdish, Wilmington 7-11 at August 13, 2014 05:54 PM (0FSuD)
305
286 Meanwhile,
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
Posted by: NCwoof at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (aUQgu)
And you're here bitching about him in the comment section of a blog. Grow up.
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
Posted by: NCwoof at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (aUQgu)
And you're here bitching about him in the comment section of a blog. Grow up.
Posted by: Buzzion at August 13, 2014 05:54 PM (sg7Yp)
306
287
No shit, I have to come here every year and I always feel naked, (shut up!) with out a gun.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (uZwoq)
Pics lindafell
No shit, I have to come here every year and I always feel naked, (shut up!) with out a gun.
Posted by: lindafell at August 13, 2014 05:50 PM (uZwoq)
Pics lindafell
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:54 PM (HVff2)
307
298 I had a college buddy, president of his fraternity, top in his class, hot girl friend.
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (0FSuD)
Youth
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (0FSuD)
Youth
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 05:56 PM (HVff2)
308
How many other people died the same day as Robin Williams? His passing should not be mourned any more than Joe Blow who worked his ass off in a factory for 30 years. Unfortunately human nature makes it so.
Posted by: Bob Belcher at August 13, 2014 05:57 PM (LdNq1)
309
And, I'll mention this again, suicide in a family
leads to more suicides. Michael Hutchence-Paula Yates-Peaches Geldorf.
Yeah it really is something we should be discussing.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (Lqy/e)
My cousin committed suicide when he was 24. The next year one of his young teenage cousins on the side I'm not related to committed suicide. That side of his family has a lot of depression and both sides have a lot of alcoholism, both of which were obvious factors in both deaths. My mom thinks his cousin was somewhat influenced by the way my extended family dealt with my cousin's suicide, which was with quasi-beatification. He had a lot of problems and suicide was a horrible way of dealing with them, but my extended family spoke of him so glowingly afterward that my mom thinks his younger cousin saw suicide as a way to redeem himself in his family's eyes... that if he killed himself nobody would think badly of him anymore. It's all horribly sad, and I have no idea what the right balance is between respect for the dead/surviving family and acknowledging suicide as the mistake it is, but I think there has to be one.
leads to more suicides. Michael Hutchence-Paula Yates-Peaches Geldorf.
Yeah it really is something we should be discussing.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at August 13, 2014 05:39 PM (Lqy/e)
My cousin committed suicide when he was 24. The next year one of his young teenage cousins on the side I'm not related to committed suicide. That side of his family has a lot of depression and both sides have a lot of alcoholism, both of which were obvious factors in both deaths. My mom thinks his cousin was somewhat influenced by the way my extended family dealt with my cousin's suicide, which was with quasi-beatification. He had a lot of problems and suicide was a horrible way of dealing with them, but my extended family spoke of him so glowingly afterward that my mom thinks his younger cousin saw suicide as a way to redeem himself in his family's eyes... that if he killed himself nobody would think badly of him anymore. It's all horribly sad, and I have no idea what the right balance is between respect for the dead/surviving family and acknowledging suicide as the mistake it is, but I think there has to be one.
Posted by: not the mama at August 13, 2014 05:57 PM (5dxeo)
310
How come I can't post?
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 05:57 PM (VrEQt)
311
Can you imagine what the left would say if Rush offed himself.
Posted by: Bob Belcher at August 13, 2014 05:57 PM (LdNq1)
312
Epic post is epic
Posted by: MikeH at August 13, 2014 05:58 PM (bRL1M)
313
Report U.S. Special Forces Have Been On Mount Sinjar For Days
Weasel Zippers
Good. That is what a Super Power that is a force for good is suppose to do so that the whole world doesn't go to shit in a handbag.
Weasel Zippers
Good. That is what a Super Power that is a force for good is suppose to do so that the whole world doesn't go to shit in a handbag.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 13, 2014 05:58 PM (nzKvP)
Posted by: The Political Hat at August 13, 2014 05:58 PM (lN8KC)
315
305 Just stating facts; not speculation.
So when did factual statements become "bitching"
Obviously, missed the site memo.
Do you think the Chaldean Catholics are depressed? Or just half dead?
So when did factual statements become "bitching"
Obviously, missed the site memo.
Do you think the Chaldean Catholics are depressed? Or just half dead?
Posted by: NCwoof at August 13, 2014 05:58 PM (aUQgu)
316
Danger Girl,
Why don't you go do something else for now?
I'm sorry you've had to live with that.
Why don't you go do something else for now?
I'm sorry you've had to live with that.
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 05:58 PM (sj3Ax)
317
256. OD, the PC suicide
so long as it looks accidental
Not what you said. Not said said, Jenny. Just teasing your rebuttal to his legitimate point that family traits do exist, whether positive or negative, whether genetic or behavioral.
And if someone were qualifying who deserves sympathy or not?
Smokers and drinkers, people dying of alcoholism gut rot etc. need not apply for "accidental overdose" status. By choice, granted.
Generally, dying doesn't seem "pretty" though the predictable natural experience marking a lifetime.
Firebirds on the Om ... another time
so long as it looks accidental
Not what you said. Not said said, Jenny. Just teasing your rebuttal to his legitimate point that family traits do exist, whether positive or negative, whether genetic or behavioral.
And if someone were qualifying who deserves sympathy or not?
Smokers and drinkers, people dying of alcoholism gut rot etc. need not apply for "accidental overdose" status. By choice, granted.
Generally, dying doesn't seem "pretty" though the predictable natural experience marking a lifetime.
Firebirds on the Om ... another time
Posted by: panzernashorn at August 13, 2014 05:59 PM (TfAS/)
318
She would be the best-prepared president on foreign policy since George H.W. Bush.
As they say about Biden, he's a foreign policy expert because he's been wrong on every aspect of foreign policy for 3 decades.
But chique is right. Based on what she says, she's not entirely naive or stupid, at least compared to Obama/Kerry. Of course, she was a real bumbler at SoS. Watch the "reset button" video sometime. Cringe inducing.
As they say about Biden, he's a foreign policy expert because he's been wrong on every aspect of foreign policy for 3 decades.
But chique is right. Based on what she says, she's not entirely naive or stupid, at least compared to Obama/Kerry. Of course, she was a real bumbler at SoS. Watch the "reset button" video sometime. Cringe inducing.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:59 PM (zIfHw)
319
You can attribute a suicide to cowardice if the guy was trying to avoid facing justice for a crime.
Otherwise, assume that the suicide was 'non compos mentis' and therefore a character defect wasn't involved. The survival instinct is far too strong to be overcome by mere cowardice, selfishness, or spite.
Williams had suffered for decades with mental illness. Saying that he's free is no different from saying that someone who died after a prolonged battle with cancer is likewise free of their suffering.
From his perspective, he was one of those 9/11 jumpers: die quickly on the ground or slowly in the fire. Whether that was an accurate assessment of his situation is beside the point: that's how it looked to him. You mourn the fact that he was in such an anguishing situation to begin with.
People who are contemplating suicide already know that death will end their suffering; that's why they're contemplating it. Observing that Williams is finally free of his lifetime of torment doesn't change the mind of a depressive. That chain-reaction effect is about the fact that he succeeded in dying, not about what people said about it.
The less people know about mental illness, the more they feel compelled to opine -- strongly -- about suicide in ways that is like a kick in the face to those of us who suffer from it. Arrogant statements about "choice" and "you just gotta find God" drive a depressive deeper into his hole, because you're reinforcing the unfortunately accurate belief that nobody gives enough of a shit to try to understand what's happening to you.
If you don't really understand much about this, please refrain from opining. We'd very much appreciate the courtesy.
Otherwise, assume that the suicide was 'non compos mentis' and therefore a character defect wasn't involved. The survival instinct is far too strong to be overcome by mere cowardice, selfishness, or spite.
Williams had suffered for decades with mental illness. Saying that he's free is no different from saying that someone who died after a prolonged battle with cancer is likewise free of their suffering.
From his perspective, he was one of those 9/11 jumpers: die quickly on the ground or slowly in the fire. Whether that was an accurate assessment of his situation is beside the point: that's how it looked to him. You mourn the fact that he was in such an anguishing situation to begin with.
People who are contemplating suicide already know that death will end their suffering; that's why they're contemplating it. Observing that Williams is finally free of his lifetime of torment doesn't change the mind of a depressive. That chain-reaction effect is about the fact that he succeeded in dying, not about what people said about it.
The less people know about mental illness, the more they feel compelled to opine -- strongly -- about suicide in ways that is like a kick in the face to those of us who suffer from it. Arrogant statements about "choice" and "you just gotta find God" drive a depressive deeper into his hole, because you're reinforcing the unfortunately accurate belief that nobody gives enough of a shit to try to understand what's happening to you.
If you don't really understand much about this, please refrain from opining. We'd very much appreciate the courtesy.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:00 PM (VrEQt)
320
Nood
Posted by: rickb223 at August 13, 2014 06:01 PM (Pvw07)
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 13, 2014 06:02 PM (vgIRn)
322
You can only stare into the abyss for so long before it takes you.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 06:02 PM (mx5oN)
323
298 I had a college buddy, president of his fraternity, top in his class, hot girl friend.
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (0FSuD)
I wonder how much culture has to do with suicide rates.
When I was growing up in my corner of deepest darkest Africa, suicides were virtually unheard of. Of course, any suicides could have been covered up, but I do think they were rarer than here. And certainly, no one ever committed suicide in my high school. The only deaths I remember were from an asthma attack (girl was known to have severe asthma) and car accident, I believe. And I never heard of any suicides in any other school.
But my nephew already knows of a couple of suicides in his generation, who are quite different from us when we were kids. (They're being raised differently and behave differently - I won't go into any details so as not to offend anyone here unnecessarily.)
Fast
Drove to a hotel on his 21st Birthday and blew his brains out.
Why??
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 13, 2014 05:52 PM (0FSuD)
I wonder how much culture has to do with suicide rates.
When I was growing up in my corner of deepest darkest Africa, suicides were virtually unheard of. Of course, any suicides could have been covered up, but I do think they were rarer than here. And certainly, no one ever committed suicide in my high school. The only deaths I remember were from an asthma attack (girl was known to have severe asthma) and car accident, I believe. And I never heard of any suicides in any other school.
But my nephew already knows of a couple of suicides in his generation, who are quite different from us when we were kids. (They're being raised differently and behave differently - I won't go into any details so as not to offend anyone here unnecessarily.)
Fast
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 06:02 PM (r+7wo)
324
286 Meanwhile,
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
Posted by: NCwoof
And meanwhile, hundreds of millions of human beings are trapped in soul-crushing Islamic societies where oppression and all-encompassing totalitarianism render daily existence a living hell.
Etc.
Every day that dawns is a tragedy of dire significance for half the planet that in a sane universe requires immediate rectification.
Sometimes we simply must concede that we are powerless to fix it all, or all at once.
tens of thousands of civilians remain trapped by crazed Islamist militants on a mountain in northern Iraq and need "life-saving assistance"
while Limbaugh spends hours dissecting depression.
Posted by: NCwoof
And meanwhile, hundreds of millions of human beings are trapped in soul-crushing Islamic societies where oppression and all-encompassing totalitarianism render daily existence a living hell.
Etc.
Every day that dawns is a tragedy of dire significance for half the planet that in a sane universe requires immediate rectification.
Sometimes we simply must concede that we are powerless to fix it all, or all at once.
Posted by: zombie at August 13, 2014 06:02 PM (izqG1)
325
If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population.
Posted by: Zero Population Growth & Planned Parenthood at August 13, 2014 06:03 PM (nbGZj)
Posted by: Bob Belcher at August 13, 2014 06:03 PM (LdNq1)
327
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 05:51 PM (r+7wo)
I suppose if I studied enough I could pass the verbal test as well. Hillary has always rode someone else's ride. It's the same now
I suppose if I studied enough I could pass the verbal test as well. Hillary has always rode someone else's ride. It's the same now
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 13, 2014 06:04 PM (HVff2)
328
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
Then there are different cultures and honorable deaths via suicide.
Expectations.
Life and purpose.
Then there are different cultures and honorable deaths via suicide.
Expectations.
Life and purpose.
Posted by: panzernashorn at August 13, 2014 06:04 PM (TfAS/)
329
Don't let it take you, Insommniac. If you're feeling that way call a help line now.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 06:04 PM (oyOpn)
330
Watch the "reset button" video sometime. Cringe inducing.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:59 PM (zIfHw)
I know! I wonder who the mindgenius was who thought that up. And the fact she went through with it, embarrassing herself greatly should be enough to convince everyone that her foreign policy chops aren't. How juvenile can a grown person be, honestly?
Posted by: AmishDude at August 13, 2014 05:59 PM (zIfHw)
I know! I wonder who the mindgenius was who thought that up. And the fact she went through with it, embarrassing herself greatly should be enough to convince everyone that her foreign policy chops aren't. How juvenile can a grown person be, honestly?
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at August 13, 2014 06:05 PM (r+7wo)
331
Matt Walsh blog has written a piece that's become controversial about Williams' death. He's also written a follow-up to the controversy.
It's long...haven't decided yet if I agree with him or not.
http://tinyurl.com/k5yolna
It's long...haven't decided yet if I agree with him or not.
http://tinyurl.com/k5yolna
Posted by: Tami at August 13, 2014 06:05 PM (v0/PR)
332
I just read that Zelda Williams quit Twitter because people were sending supposed pictures of her father after he died. Sick people to do that to her!
Posted by: Carol at August 13, 2014 06:05 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: panzernashorn at August 13, 2014 06:05 PM (TfAS/)
334
Only skimmed the comments, don't know if anybody has addressed this, but:
I work in the media, and suicides are always, always, always a touchy subject. There is, in fact, a well-documented phenomenon of maudlin media coverage of suicides inspiring copycat suicides. I don't know about other places, but every media outlet I've worked at tries to be as responsible as possible when handling this stuff to avoid encouraging others.
The general rule is not to cover suicides at all unless it's some situation where it's absolutely unavoidable, and even then, you're supposed to go to great lengths to minimize the suicide angle, sometimes to the point where you almost force your audience to read between the lines in order to get it. (If you've ever seen a local news story about a death where it seems like they're twisting themselves into knots to avoid mentioning a cause -- something which would normally be among the first things mentioned -- this is likely the reason.)
I remember a while back we had a high-profile local government official who killed himself, and we agonized over how to cover it -- whether or not to mention in our coverage that it was a suicide. In the end we just very quietly slipped that bit of information into the background of our initial coverage, but we've never mentioned it since. In subsequent coverage we just say the guy died and don't say how.
With Williams, all these protocols are being thrown out the window, obviously, but it's kind of hard to avoid. He was a very big celebrity, and his claim to fame was bringing joy and laughter to others, so some of this "sad clown" coverage is probably unavoidable. Still, I think the wise thing to do would be to make sure that every "this is so sad, he was so great" story include lots and lots of prominently displayed information about how to get help if you're thinking of suicide. Like, put that as the lead, or very close to it, and keep re-emphasizing it throughout the coverage. It's the best way I can think of to balance out the competing demands of a story like this.
I work in the media, and suicides are always, always, always a touchy subject. There is, in fact, a well-documented phenomenon of maudlin media coverage of suicides inspiring copycat suicides. I don't know about other places, but every media outlet I've worked at tries to be as responsible as possible when handling this stuff to avoid encouraging others.
The general rule is not to cover suicides at all unless it's some situation where it's absolutely unavoidable, and even then, you're supposed to go to great lengths to minimize the suicide angle, sometimes to the point where you almost force your audience to read between the lines in order to get it. (If you've ever seen a local news story about a death where it seems like they're twisting themselves into knots to avoid mentioning a cause -- something which would normally be among the first things mentioned -- this is likely the reason.)
I remember a while back we had a high-profile local government official who killed himself, and we agonized over how to cover it -- whether or not to mention in our coverage that it was a suicide. In the end we just very quietly slipped that bit of information into the background of our initial coverage, but we've never mentioned it since. In subsequent coverage we just say the guy died and don't say how.
With Williams, all these protocols are being thrown out the window, obviously, but it's kind of hard to avoid. He was a very big celebrity, and his claim to fame was bringing joy and laughter to others, so some of this "sad clown" coverage is probably unavoidable. Still, I think the wise thing to do would be to make sure that every "this is so sad, he was so great" story include lots and lots of prominently displayed information about how to get help if you're thinking of suicide. Like, put that as the lead, or very close to it, and keep re-emphasizing it throughout the coverage. It's the best way I can think of to balance out the competing demands of a story like this.
Posted by: Ex-liberal at August 13, 2014 06:05 PM (R1mDg)
335
Out, out, damned spot!
Posted by: Lady Macbeth at August 13, 2014 06:06 PM (TfAS/)
336
329 Don't let it take you, Insommniac. If you're feeling that way call a help line now.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 06:04 PM (oyOpn)
Don't worry. Not a cry for help, just an observation. I do appreciate your concern, though.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 06:04 PM (oyOpn)
Don't worry. Not a cry for help, just an observation. I do appreciate your concern, though.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 13, 2014 06:06 PM (mx5oN)
337
I am not talking about others cultures, but I grant your point. I am talking about my family and as a person who has been affected by depression and has been suicidal.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 06:07 PM (oyOpn)
338
My father was a suicide...probably. Didn't leave a note, but it was a self-administered overdose of Rx drugs. He was an MD, so he knew what he was doing. Just had gotten off the phone after fighting with his fiancee.
Yes, I was angry at him for a long time. For years, even. I was only 15 when he did it, and I miss him every day.
I'd like to think I'm not angry at him anymore...I think I'm close, at least. But I understand why you can feel overwhelmed in that small window, and once you make the decision, you can't ever take it back. That genie can never go back in the bottle.
Yes, I was angry at him for a long time. For years, even. I was only 15 when he did it, and I miss him every day.
I'd like to think I'm not angry at him anymore...I think I'm close, at least. But I understand why you can feel overwhelmed in that small window, and once you make the decision, you can't ever take it back. That genie can never go back in the bottle.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at August 13, 2014 06:07 PM (3H4Zj)
339
People who are contemplating suicide already know that death will end their suffering; that's why they're contemplating it. Observing that Williams is finally free of his lifetime of torment doesn't change the mind of a depressive. That chain-reaction effect is about the fact that he succeeded in dying, not about what people said about it
Only true if there is nothing after death.
Otherwise, if there is an afterlife, and our actions in this life affect it, we may be held to account for a choice to murder oneself and forcing friends and family and strangers to clean up the physical and spiritual mess left behind.
Put aside the thought whether or not it ends the depressed's suffering - it most definitely starts much suffering for those around them. One must hate the world and all those connected to him to end his life.
Only true if there is nothing after death.
Otherwise, if there is an afterlife, and our actions in this life affect it, we may be held to account for a choice to murder oneself and forcing friends and family and strangers to clean up the physical and spiritual mess left behind.
Put aside the thought whether or not it ends the depressed's suffering - it most definitely starts much suffering for those around them. One must hate the world and all those connected to him to end his life.
Posted by: CM at August 13, 2014 06:08 PM (0NdlF)
340
"A self centered act of defeat. Religion usually can cure these sort of thoughts, but you have to make the first move. "
Mental illness breaks that part of your brain. You can't even pray, because that requires a degree of hope that God will find you worth helping.
Which, depression is a nonstop YouTube comment section in your mind, telling you what a worthless piece of shit you are who is too loathsome to live.
Yet another person who thinks that if his own legs work the guy with the spinal cord injury should be able to wiggle his toes.
Mental illness breaks that part of your brain. You can't even pray, because that requires a degree of hope that God will find you worth helping.
Which, depression is a nonstop YouTube comment section in your mind, telling you what a worthless piece of shit you are who is too loathsome to live.
Yet another person who thinks that if his own legs work the guy with the spinal cord injury should be able to wiggle his toes.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:09 PM (VrEQt)
Posted by: Just Some Guy who has been there at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (vgIRn)
342
I agree that the media has an opportunity to highlight the genuine dangers of clinical depression and the effects suicide has on loved ones. But I'm not hearing a lot of it.
This reminds me of an unforgettable essay written by John Hayward (aka Doctor Zero) several years ago on HotAir, triggered by the suicide of Walter Koenig's son.
It's pretty powerful piece, and no less relevant today.
http://tinyurl.com/ybaaqkv
This reminds me of an unforgettable essay written by John Hayward (aka Doctor Zero) several years ago on HotAir, triggered by the suicide of Walter Koenig's son.
It's pretty powerful piece, and no less relevant today.
http://tinyurl.com/ybaaqkv
Posted by: weew at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (0tmLY)
343
@341 woah
Posted by: weew at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (0tmLY)
344
"he rejects our most primal urge to live."
It's not a conscious rejection. Depression shuts off the survival instinct.
Please understand that mental illness is like being drugged against your will. You can't apply the same standards to a drugged brain as to a healthy one. The drugged brain cannot perform the same cognitive tasks as a healthy one.
Because it's drugged, not healthy.
It's not a conscious rejection. Depression shuts off the survival instinct.
Please understand that mental illness is like being drugged against your will. You can't apply the same standards to a drugged brain as to a healthy one. The drugged brain cannot perform the same cognitive tasks as a healthy one.
Because it's drugged, not healthy.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (VrEQt)
345
To despair is to turn one's back on God.
Posted by: Marilla Cuthbert at August 13, 2014 06:15 PM (nbGZj)
346
I remember reading a book on depression. It made the point that you could be lying in bed clinically depressed and wanting to die. On the dresser is a bottle of pills that could make you all better. It's just too much of bother to get out of bed and get the medication.
Remember, that's clinically depressed, not really sad.
I remember reading a book on depression. It made the point that you could be lying in bed clinically depressed and wanting to die. On the dresser is a bottle of pills that could make you all better. It's just too much of bother to get out of bed and get the medication.
Remember, that's clinically depressed, not really sad.
Posted by: Yeff at August 13, 2014 06:15 PM (EN+Sm)
347
230 "I think I remember you talking about this before on HA"
Actually, it was here, New Years thread, I was expressing my gratitude to the moron horde for helping me get through it by providing much-needed distraction. I'm still grateful, and well, you're all still morons (thank God).
Actually, it was here, New Years thread, I was expressing my gratitude to the moron horde for helping me get through it by providing much-needed distraction. I'm still grateful, and well, you're all still morons (thank God).
Posted by: UnderCoverInLA at August 13, 2014 06:16 PM (UdaXp)
348
Great link, guys.
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 06:16 PM (zDsvJ)
349
"The outpouring of grief from the community was overwhelming, but
overlooked the fact that my brother was a lifelong scammer, liar, thief,
and a financial idiot. It was a supremely selfish act, has scarred my
family in the most permanent ways you can imagine, and was the
culmination of the forty years of drama and turmoil he subjected my
nearly 80 year old parents to enduring on a near daily basis"
That's a pretty clear-cut case of a selfish suicide, on account of the fact that the man was prolly a sociopath, or at least had narcissistic personality disorder.
TOTES different from depression. TOTES.
overlooked the fact that my brother was a lifelong scammer, liar, thief,
and a financial idiot. It was a supremely selfish act, has scarred my
family in the most permanent ways you can imagine, and was the
culmination of the forty years of drama and turmoil he subjected my
nearly 80 year old parents to enduring on a near daily basis"
That's a pretty clear-cut case of a selfish suicide, on account of the fact that the man was prolly a sociopath, or at least had narcissistic personality disorder.
TOTES different from depression. TOTES.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:17 PM (VrEQt)
350
(The Doc Zero column, I mean.)
Posted by: Y-not at August 13, 2014 06:17 PM (zDsvJ)
351
"To a man, they ALL say that the moment their feet left the span, they thought OH, SHIT"
That's because the sensation of freefall caused their lizard brains to scream DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER.
Not that their lizard brains weren't wrong; that's just what happened.
Suicide is sometimes a permanent solution to a temporary problem and sometimes a permanent solution to a permanent problem.
That's because the sensation of freefall caused their lizard brains to scream DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER DANGER.
Not that their lizard brains weren't wrong; that's just what happened.
Suicide is sometimes a permanent solution to a temporary problem and sometimes a permanent solution to a permanent problem.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:20 PM (VrEQt)
352
TOTES different from depression. TOTES.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:17 PM (VrEQt)
Right after a "Don't Judge!" blurb, you judged someone else's suicide in a flippant way.
I see a log in your eye that you might want to clear out.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:17 PM (VrEQt)
Right after a "Don't Judge!" blurb, you judged someone else's suicide in a flippant way.
I see a log in your eye that you might want to clear out.
Posted by: CM at August 13, 2014 06:23 PM (0NdlF)
353
Nood up for those who would like a new topic.
Posted by: CM at August 13, 2014 06:24 PM (0NdlF)
354
Remember, that's clinically depressed, not really sad.
Really amazing how many otherwise not-stupid people are making such jackasses of themselves insisting there's no difference between a mood and a disease. Or maybe not.
Really amazing how many otherwise not-stupid people are making such jackasses of themselves insisting there's no difference between a mood and a disease. Or maybe not.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 13, 2014 06:25 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: The Hillary at August 13, 2014 06:25 PM (knfPD)
356
Amy Van Dryken-Rouen, Olympic swimmer and new paraplegic (as of June this summer) has a quote on her Twitter page (I have been following her):
"Anyone can give up, it is the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that is true strength." I do not know who to credit the quote to.
I also do not know the dark pit of despair and depression it would be to take my own life. I know guilt follows sudden death, and I pray for the friends and family of Robin Williams as even a "regular" sudden death brings massive grief and guilt all rolled into one (I know, as one of my brothers died suddenly of a massive stroke. These were thoughts I had: "I should have called him more often. I should have supported him more. I should have been a better sister." Rationally I can step back and realize I was a good sister. I miss him daily. He was the link to my childhood where no other brother, parent, spouse, son or friend is. He "got me" when no one else did. We had the same sense of bizarre humor, which some also share, but no one can come close to him. So I cannot imagine losing someone to suicide. That is hell on earth to think about).
I know I don't judge. Or I choose not to judge but pity anyone who plans to take their life. In that moment it is selfish. They do not think of those who love them, and they do leave those who do love them and will miss them the rest of their lives. But I also don't know that pit of darkness or mental illness that Mr. Williams seemed to possess along with giving joy. How sad, that no one could help him help himself.
I think the media, while being the media in all of it's tawdry glory, also has survivor's guilt that everyone experiences when someone dies. "I should have done more."
The world, right now, sucks. It also sucked during the 1918 influenza on top of WWI. It also sucked at other times in history. If he did kill himself out of pride (for making movies he did not like vs burning himself out due to manic behavior he could not control) or alimony (which speaks to the selfishness of wives with grown children who will be viewed, always, as mean and greedy people), that is sad...as time would have made things better or improved coping. Or so I say from my ivory tower.
If any of you are this depressed ask for help, even from morons. You would be surprised how many people care and want to help. xoxo
"Anyone can give up, it is the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that is true strength." I do not know who to credit the quote to.
I also do not know the dark pit of despair and depression it would be to take my own life. I know guilt follows sudden death, and I pray for the friends and family of Robin Williams as even a "regular" sudden death brings massive grief and guilt all rolled into one (I know, as one of my brothers died suddenly of a massive stroke. These were thoughts I had: "I should have called him more often. I should have supported him more. I should have been a better sister." Rationally I can step back and realize I was a good sister. I miss him daily. He was the link to my childhood where no other brother, parent, spouse, son or friend is. He "got me" when no one else did. We had the same sense of bizarre humor, which some also share, but no one can come close to him. So I cannot imagine losing someone to suicide. That is hell on earth to think about).
I know I don't judge. Or I choose not to judge but pity anyone who plans to take their life. In that moment it is selfish. They do not think of those who love them, and they do leave those who do love them and will miss them the rest of their lives. But I also don't know that pit of darkness or mental illness that Mr. Williams seemed to possess along with giving joy. How sad, that no one could help him help himself.
I think the media, while being the media in all of it's tawdry glory, also has survivor's guilt that everyone experiences when someone dies. "I should have done more."
The world, right now, sucks. It also sucked during the 1918 influenza on top of WWI. It also sucked at other times in history. If he did kill himself out of pride (for making movies he did not like vs burning himself out due to manic behavior he could not control) or alimony (which speaks to the selfishness of wives with grown children who will be viewed, always, as mean and greedy people), that is sad...as time would have made things better or improved coping. Or so I say from my ivory tower.
If any of you are this depressed ask for help, even from morons. You would be surprised how many people care and want to help. xoxo
Posted by: ChristyBlinky,supermodel, po'd Benghazi reporter at August 13, 2014 06:27 PM (dMEBN)
357
Suicide is contagious. Life is hard. Dad is an example. When Dad folds his hand, the kids see it as a way out from underneath the pain, too. And boy howdy, do they have pain now.
I don't give a damn about theology, but the taboo's there for a reason.
And I don't give a damn about how clearly he was thinking. Now that there's an over/under on his adult childrens' lives, who cares how it got there.
Before you call me heartless, consider that I might have more personal experience with family members committing suicide than you do.
I don't give a damn about theology, but the taboo's there for a reason.
And I don't give a damn about how clearly he was thinking. Now that there's an over/under on his adult childrens' lives, who cares how it got there.
Before you call me heartless, consider that I might have more personal experience with family members committing suicide than you do.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:28 PM (66uNk)
358
"357 Suicide is contagious. Life is hard. Dad is an example. When Dad folds his hand, the kids see it as a way out from underneath the pain, too. And boy howdy, do they have pain now.
Before you call me heartless, consider that I might have more personal experience with family members committing suicide than you do.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:28 PM (66uNk)"
Would you consider that not everyone sees suicide as an example to be emulated? I went through my father's suicide, and I don't want to put anyone else through that.
Before you call me heartless, consider that I might have more personal experience with family members committing suicide than you do.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:28 PM (66uNk)"
Would you consider that not everyone sees suicide as an example to be emulated? I went through my father's suicide, and I don't want to put anyone else through that.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at August 13, 2014 06:32 PM (3H4Zj)
359
Is praise for Williams praise for the manner in which he died, though? I don't think it is. His suicide wasn't inspiring...his life and work, to some anyway, was.
Posted by: tom at August 13, 2014 06:35 PM (KM6JD)
360
I had a twitter discussion with Cathy Young about this late last night. She remained unconvinced by the end of it, although it was pretty cool to have even a petty discussion with one of the writers who had a major influence on my journey from leftism to conservatism.
Posted by: The guy who asks about Lacey Wigs at August 13, 2014 06:36 PM (B/RLF)
361
Jeez... Lacey Wig Guy sock off...
Posted by: holygoat at August 13, 2014 06:36 PM (B/RLF)
362
"To despair is to turn one's back on God."
People who are mentally ill think that God hates them, because they can feel that hatred and loathing in every fiber of their being.
Please spare us the platitudes that apply to those with a working brain. It actually hurts worse than not saying anything at all.
People who are mentally ill think that God hates them, because they can feel that hatred and loathing in every fiber of their being.
Please spare us the platitudes that apply to those with a working brain. It actually hurts worse than not saying anything at all.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:38 PM (VrEQt)
363
I considered it.
I wouldn't roll those dice with Robin Williams' children, let alone children I am acquainted with.
I haven't killed myself yet...but I know the option's ALWAYS on the table. Thanks, Dad.
I wouldn't roll those dice with Robin Williams' children, let alone children I am acquainted with.
I haven't killed myself yet...but I know the option's ALWAYS on the table. Thanks, Dad.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:39 PM (66uNk)
364
Very well put, ace. Rush didn't make the point the calumnists tried to say he did. The point Rush was making wasn't the best point but so what, it was unscripted live speaking on a delicate topic. And you don't want to build up the act of suicide itself as the magical release for the poor person.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at August 13, 2014 06:40 PM (WQ9Fd)
365
The only people who agree with Matt Walsh are the ones who are as ignorant as he is about mental illness:
http://whatismattwalshwrongabouttoday.com/robin-williams/
He's making a point that doesn't need making and that furthermore inflicts pain.
He might as well go to a cystic fibrosis clinic to remind everyone that God gave us lungs to take in oxygen from the air and that the diaphragm is a VOLUNTARY muscle.
So let's not have any of this suffocation, all right? Maybe all you people need is a good expectorant, because that's what helped me when I had bronchitis.
It's like that.
http://whatismattwalshwrongabouttoday.com/robin-williams/
He's making a point that doesn't need making and that furthermore inflicts pain.
He might as well go to a cystic fibrosis clinic to remind everyone that God gave us lungs to take in oxygen from the air and that the diaphragm is a VOLUNTARY muscle.
So let's not have any of this suffocation, all right? Maybe all you people need is a good expectorant, because that's what helped me when I had bronchitis.
It's like that.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:42 PM (VrEQt)
366
"I haven't killed myself yet...but I know the option's ALWAYS on the table. Thanks, Dad.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:39 PM (66uNk)"
You didn't know about suicide before that? I think most adults and even older children understand the concept.
Everyone is different, I suppose. I don't see my father's suicide as an example. Without his suicide, maybe I'd have evnetually fallen for the bullshit romanticism of suicide.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:39 PM (66uNk)"
You didn't know about suicide before that? I think most adults and even older children understand the concept.
Everyone is different, I suppose. I don't see my father's suicide as an example. Without his suicide, maybe I'd have evnetually fallen for the bullshit romanticism of suicide.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at August 13, 2014 06:44 PM (3H4Zj)
367
"we may be held to account for a choice to murder oneself and forcing
friends and family and strangers to clean up the physical and spiritual
mess left behind."
Even we mortals don't hold crazy people responsible for their actions. God's not going to condemn someone who was non compos mentis at the time of the act.
friends and family and strangers to clean up the physical and spiritual
mess left behind."
Even we mortals don't hold crazy people responsible for their actions. God's not going to condemn someone who was non compos mentis at the time of the act.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:45 PM (VrEQt)
368
"Right after a 'Don't Judge!' blurb, you judged someone else's suicide in a flippant way."
Wasn't flippant. We were provided ample clues about the person's behavior to determine that the suicide was a sociopath/narcissist, not someone who was mentally ill.
I had already stated that if you're trying to avoid the consequences of your crimes that it prolly was a selfish act.
Wasn't flippant. We were provided ample clues about the person's behavior to determine that the suicide was a sociopath/narcissist, not someone who was mentally ill.
I had already stated that if you're trying to avoid the consequences of your crimes that it prolly was a selfish act.
Posted by: dicentra at August 13, 2014 06:48 PM (VrEQt)
369
Even we mortals don't hold crazy people responsible for their actions. God's not going to condemn someone who was non compos mentis at the time of the act.
So now you will teach theology that is accommodating to suicide based on ... your personal feelings?
"You're not responsible if you kill yourself and inflict pain on others. Your brain/hormones/sinful nature made you do it."
Why are you so dead-set against any suicide contemplators being held to account for their thoughts and actions? Why would you rather they had a judgement-free affirmation of that deadly and hurtful choice?
We all have choices. Some have small choices, some have big choices, but all will be held accountable for the choices we make. Suicide is a choice. That is the plain truth, and only the truth can drag one out of the lies that lead to self-destruction and death.
So now you will teach theology that is accommodating to suicide based on ... your personal feelings?
"You're not responsible if you kill yourself and inflict pain on others. Your brain/hormones/sinful nature made you do it."
Why are you so dead-set against any suicide contemplators being held to account for their thoughts and actions? Why would you rather they had a judgement-free affirmation of that deadly and hurtful choice?
We all have choices. Some have small choices, some have big choices, but all will be held accountable for the choices we make. Suicide is a choice. That is the plain truth, and only the truth can drag one out of the lies that lead to self-destruction and death.
Posted by: CM at August 13, 2014 06:51 PM (0NdlF)
370
Is it really so hard to understand that a father's suicide might result in more emotional pain than one has ever experienced before?
And don't take my word for it, Google "suicide contagion."
And don't take my word for it, Google "suicide contagion."
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:53 PM (66uNk)
371
Wasn't flippant. We were provided ample clues about the person's behavior to determine that the suicide was a sociopath/narcissist, not someone who was mentally ill.
TOTES is such a serious word. If I wanted to comfort someone dealing with a death, I'd TOTES tell them to TOTES put it behind them.
Cuz like lol u kno?
TOTES is such a serious word. If I wanted to comfort someone dealing with a death, I'd TOTES tell them to TOTES put it behind them.
Cuz like lol u kno?
Posted by: CM at August 13, 2014 06:55 PM (0NdlF)
372
"370 Is it really so hard to understand that a father's suicide might result in more emotional pain than one has ever experienced before?
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:53 PM (66uNk)"
No, it's incredibly easy to understand. It's the most painful thing to have ever happened to me. But it also soured me on suicide, more than anything unconnected ever could. I personally felt the intense, unrelenting survivor's guilt, and I didn't want to put that pain on anybody else, especially people I love.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 06:53 PM (66uNk)"
No, it's incredibly easy to understand. It's the most painful thing to have ever happened to me. But it also soured me on suicide, more than anything unconnected ever could. I personally felt the intense, unrelenting survivor's guilt, and I didn't want to put that pain on anybody else, especially people I love.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at August 13, 2014 07:11 PM (3H4Zj)
373
Is it really so hard to understand that a father's suicide might result in more emotional pain than one has ever experienced before?
-----------------
Not even slightly difficult, for me. I have seen it twice. The children never completely recover.
-----------------
Not even slightly difficult, for me. I have seen it twice. The children never completely recover.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 13, 2014 07:12 PM (1Mxs7)
374
"To despair is to turn one's back on God."
I was well on the road to disbelief when I tried to kill myself and I prayed to every deity I thought might have existed to get rid of the pain and make me normal. I would have sent prayers to Cthulu, I would have joined a religion I despised like Islam if Allah took away my pain just by asking him. Obviously nothing worked except being locked away by human beings until I could be released into my family's care and made to take medication. To this day I would join any faith that I know can take this away. I might as well pray as hard as I can for a third eye to grow out of my forehead. It's not going to happen.
I was well on the road to disbelief when I tried to kill myself and I prayed to every deity I thought might have existed to get rid of the pain and make me normal. I would have sent prayers to Cthulu, I would have joined a religion I despised like Islam if Allah took away my pain just by asking him. Obviously nothing worked except being locked away by human beings until I could be released into my family's care and made to take medication. To this day I would join any faith that I know can take this away. I might as well pray as hard as I can for a third eye to grow out of my forehead. It's not going to happen.
Posted by: Serena at August 13, 2014 07:15 PM (qFXjU)
375
Ah! You have family left to hurt. I don't.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 07:29 PM (66uNk)
376
"The children never completely recover."
Yup. And their future wives, husbands, and children can all thank Robin Williams for breaking his children permanently, no matter his hopeless he felt at the time.
His mindset, at the time, doesn't change the result one bit.
Yup. And their future wives, husbands, and children can all thank Robin Williams for breaking his children permanently, no matter his hopeless he felt at the time.
His mindset, at the time, doesn't change the result one bit.
Posted by: Oschisms at August 13, 2014 07:36 PM (66uNk)
377
To this day I would join any faith that I know can take this away. I
might as well pray as hard as I can for a third eye to grow out of my
forehead. It's not going to happen.
******
I'm sorry you feel this way.
If you're in pain, it means some part of you is still trying. That causes friction with the part that wants to give up, and that causes pain.
God loves you desperately, no matter who you are, what you've done, or what's been done to you. He loves you. He will never turn His back on you, regardless of people posting unhelpful quotes about despair.
Sincerely,
Somebody who's also been there, and still drops by to visit now and then.
might as well pray as hard as I can for a third eye to grow out of my
forehead. It's not going to happen.
******
I'm sorry you feel this way.
If you're in pain, it means some part of you is still trying. That causes friction with the part that wants to give up, and that causes pain.
God loves you desperately, no matter who you are, what you've done, or what's been done to you. He loves you. He will never turn His back on you, regardless of people posting unhelpful quotes about despair.
Sincerely,
Somebody who's also been there, and still drops by to visit now and then.
Posted by: Just some guy at August 13, 2014 08:00 PM (yxw0r)
378
Do we really want to push the "he inspired us" storyline about a man who hung himself while his wife slept in the next room?
What's the big deal?
What's the big deal?
Posted by: Hunter S. Thompson at August 13, 2014 08:04 PM (Y6xQZ)
379
Great post, Ace.
Posted by: Pastorius at August 13, 2014 08:25 PM (gMAUH)
380
There are many people of religious faith who are affected by depression. I am one of them. in fact, some famous hymn writers have had depression or what would now be considered bi-polar disorder. I have often found it very hard if not impossible to pray for myself when I am severely depressed, but I am grateful for people of religious faith who prayed for me when I found it hard to do so and who called me every day to assure me that there was light at the end of the tunnel. Going through depression did not cause me to lose my faith in God although I have felt the absence of God when depressed and there have been times i didn't believe in God when not clinically depressed. I just think that I was born with a tendency towards depression and not that God gave it to me. It has helped me to empathize with people who are depressed. My faith is such that I would have never prayed to Allah because I am not a Muslim nor do I want to be. I don't know that I will always be depressed. Although I have a genetic tendency to it, I have not been severely depressed in several years and I believe that my faith and contemplation as well as diet (no sugar, no gluten. eating healthily) and exercise have helped with that.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 08:34 PM (oyOpn)
381
I agree that the media has an opportunity to highlight the genuine dangers of clinical depression and the effects suicide has on loved ones. But I'm not hearing a lot of it.
Posted by: weew at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (0tmLY)
I've found the media, particularly CNN, Nancy Grace, etc. to be relentless amateur psychiatrists. They have begged, pleaded, and screamed about depression now for two days, imploring people to get help, criticizing health insurance plans for not having limitless psychiatric care, telling people that EVERYONE should have a mental health exam, children should be examined, etc.
That is the politics in the non stop coverage of William's suicide. It's been a cover story for propping up Obamacare/single payer.
Posted by: weew at August 13, 2014 06:12 PM (0tmLY)
I've found the media, particularly CNN, Nancy Grace, etc. to be relentless amateur psychiatrists. They have begged, pleaded, and screamed about depression now for two days, imploring people to get help, criticizing health insurance plans for not having limitless psychiatric care, telling people that EVERYONE should have a mental health exam, children should be examined, etc.
That is the politics in the non stop coverage of William's suicide. It's been a cover story for propping up Obamacare/single payer.
Posted by: Jen at August 13, 2014 08:38 PM (9SBbh)
382
And I'm not on medication at the moment and haven't been for several years because I can't afford it and because I don't like the side effects and i hated being a guinea pig when whatever I was on was no longer working. So that means I occasionally have periods where my mood is much below par, but not what it has been and I am grateful for that. This is certainly not because I am a wonderful person or because I have some secret; It's just the way it is and depression is an illness that affects different people in different ways. It is not a moral failing.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 08:46 PM (oyOpn)
383
And I think it's irresponsible for people to use RW's suicide to push single payer, because of course people do still commit suicide even under single payer plans, Single payer is not a care all for everything that ails us.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 08:50 PM (oyOpn)
384
meant "cure all"
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 08:53 PM (oyOpn)
385
And that was a great essay by Doctor Zero on the suicide of Walter Koenig's son. Thanks.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 13, 2014 09:35 PM (oyOpn)
386
Right before I learned of RW's suicide, we drove past a Baptist sign (They're always the best!) that read:
No God No Peace
Know God Know Peace
Ironically, RW's father was a minister, yet his son battled with a profound existential crisis.
I did wonder about RW's politics. He believed in gay rights and probably loved Obama. Wonder if he was bitter that "racist" opposition threatened this historic and uniting presidency, and though gays were enjoying more social acceptance, "some people" would never recognize their rights. I bet it piled up on him -- "hate", war, poverty, and he's broke after two divorces and helpless to be more influential and change the world, just make people laugh, and he's tired of doing his old schtick to pay the bills.
No God No Peace
Know God Know Peace
Ironically, RW's father was a minister, yet his son battled with a profound existential crisis.
I did wonder about RW's politics. He believed in gay rights and probably loved Obama. Wonder if he was bitter that "racist" opposition threatened this historic and uniting presidency, and though gays were enjoying more social acceptance, "some people" would never recognize their rights. I bet it piled up on him -- "hate", war, poverty, and he's broke after two divorces and helpless to be more influential and change the world, just make people laugh, and he's tired of doing his old schtick to pay the bills.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 13, 2014 09:52 PM (Y92Nd)
387
383 Christians believe wickedness is a moral failing. Socialists believe it is the result of income inequality.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 13, 2014 09:53 PM (Y92Nd)
388
So, yeah, I buy into the "sad clown" narrative, but I think RW bought into it more than anyone. He built a career around it, and his fans demanded it of him.
Depression, addiction, politics didn't kill RW. Buying into his own hype did. Pride, envy and wrath. People overlook how much anger it takes to commit violence upon yourself, an act that goes against the instinct of self-preservation that is hard-wired into humans.
Depression, addiction, politics didn't kill RW. Buying into his own hype did. Pride, envy and wrath. People overlook how much anger it takes to commit violence upon yourself, an act that goes against the instinct of self-preservation that is hard-wired into humans.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 13, 2014 10:17 PM (Y92Nd)
389
3 years into terminal cancer, 2 times under the knife, radiation, 9 months of a 12 month interferon planned treatment for metastatic malignant melanoma. 7% survival rate for 1 year and goes down after that.
Everyday I find a reason not to end it. Some days it's my hate for the government. Got my IRS letter for looking at the Homeland Security Compound by the house to closely. Ending my life would be a plus for them. Other days it's the family. Some days it's just a ride on the old Harley that pulls me out of the funk.
I do keep my .45 handy for the day I can't find a reason.
Reading the comments here. Suicide would be the cowards way out and I'm no coward.
Everyday I find a reason not to end it. Some days it's my hate for the government. Got my IRS letter for looking at the Homeland Security Compound by the house to closely. Ending my life would be a plus for them. Other days it's the family. Some days it's just a ride on the old Harley that pulls me out of the funk.
I do keep my .45 handy for the day I can't find a reason.
Reading the comments here. Suicide would be the cowards way out and I'm no coward.
Posted by: Thomas Swartz at August 13, 2014 10:34 PM (43oin)
390
I envy people who's faith helps them with depression.
Posted by: Serena at August 13, 2014 10:52 PM (qFXjU)
391
390
I envy people who's faith helps them with depression.
Posted by: Serena at August 13, 2014 10:52 PM (qFXjU)
You just gotta make the jump, kiddo. People far, far smarter than all of us have done it. It's not a matter of denying your intellect, if that's a concern.Don't give up. Don't confuse "religion" with a relationship with Him.I cannot put into words how desperately He loves you. How much it breaks His heart that you're in pain. He's right there, right now, right beside you. Just make the jump.
I envy people who's faith helps them with depression.
Posted by: Serena at August 13, 2014 10:52 PM (qFXjU)
You just gotta make the jump, kiddo. People far, far smarter than all of us have done it. It's not a matter of denying your intellect, if that's a concern.Don't give up. Don't confuse "religion" with a relationship with Him.I cannot put into words how desperately He loves you. How much it breaks His heart that you're in pain. He's right there, right now, right beside you. Just make the jump.
Posted by: Just some guy at August 13, 2014 11:10 PM (yxw0r)
392
"Leap," maybe. Poor choice of words.
And keep taking your meds. Those are there for a reason.
He loves you unconditionally.
And keep taking your meds. Those are there for a reason.
He loves you unconditionally.
Posted by: Just some guy at August 13, 2014 11:37 PM (yxw0r)
393
"Why are you so dead-set against any suicide contemplators being held to
account for their thoughts and actions? Why would you rather they had
a judgement-free affirmation of that deadly and hurtful choice?
"
I'm pretty sure I limited my remarks to people with MENTAL ILLNESS. "Non compos mentis" is the legal term for insane. Maybe you can find me the theologian (or the scripture) wherein God affirms that insanity is no excuse for sin, that people with physically damaged brains are held to the same standard as those who have healthy brains.
Not all people who off themselves are mentally ill, and there's absolutely no reason for you to read my comments as saying otherwise.
FOR EXAMPLE, I have no doubt that this piece of shit will burn in hell: http://tinyurl.com/6qam8aq
It appears that Josh Powell was molesting his two sons, and his wife found out shortly before she vanished without a trace. Cops were pretty sure he killed her but they couldn't prove it. (Her body still hasn't been found even after 3 years.) The boys were in their grandparents' custody but the father was allowed supervised visits.
As the social worker brought the kids to their father's house he opened all the gas valves. The boys ran from the car to the house faster than the social worker. The father ducked them inside, locked the door, then lit a match, sending them all to kingdom come.
That wasn't mental illness: not depression, not bipolar, not schizophrenia. It was pure evil.
Got that? Nobody on the planet rejoiced that Josh Powell was finally free. NOBODY. Instead, we're glad he's burning in hell and are anguished that he took those precious kids with them. The grandparents are inconsolable, having lost their daughter AND their grandsons at the hand of one evil man.
The fact that Williams suffered his whole life from bipolar disorder (or something similar) means that it's appropriate to attribute his actions to insanity, not selfishness.
Other examples that people have provided on this thread don't automatically fall into the category of insanity or mental illness or anything else.
I got chastised upthread for having the gall to distinguish between a sociopathic/narcissistic bastard wreaking havoc on everyone's lives and a tormented soul who was driven insane by his own malfunctioning brain.
If you want to chastise someone for not being able to accept that suicidal motives range from genuine, Satanic evil to bugspittle crazy and everywhere in between, I'M NOT YOUR GIRL.
But then you morons were never champions of subtlety.
account for their thoughts and actions? Why would you rather they had
a judgement-free affirmation of that deadly and hurtful choice?
"
I'm pretty sure I limited my remarks to people with MENTAL ILLNESS. "Non compos mentis" is the legal term for insane. Maybe you can find me the theologian (or the scripture) wherein God affirms that insanity is no excuse for sin, that people with physically damaged brains are held to the same standard as those who have healthy brains.
Not all people who off themselves are mentally ill, and there's absolutely no reason for you to read my comments as saying otherwise.
FOR EXAMPLE, I have no doubt that this piece of shit will burn in hell: http://tinyurl.com/6qam8aq
It appears that Josh Powell was molesting his two sons, and his wife found out shortly before she vanished without a trace. Cops were pretty sure he killed her but they couldn't prove it. (Her body still hasn't been found even after 3 years.) The boys were in their grandparents' custody but the father was allowed supervised visits.
As the social worker brought the kids to their father's house he opened all the gas valves. The boys ran from the car to the house faster than the social worker. The father ducked them inside, locked the door, then lit a match, sending them all to kingdom come.
That wasn't mental illness: not depression, not bipolar, not schizophrenia. It was pure evil.
Got that? Nobody on the planet rejoiced that Josh Powell was finally free. NOBODY. Instead, we're glad he's burning in hell and are anguished that he took those precious kids with them. The grandparents are inconsolable, having lost their daughter AND their grandsons at the hand of one evil man.
The fact that Williams suffered his whole life from bipolar disorder (or something similar) means that it's appropriate to attribute his actions to insanity, not selfishness.
Other examples that people have provided on this thread don't automatically fall into the category of insanity or mental illness or anything else.
I got chastised upthread for having the gall to distinguish between a sociopathic/narcissistic bastard wreaking havoc on everyone's lives and a tormented soul who was driven insane by his own malfunctioning brain.
If you want to chastise someone for not being able to accept that suicidal motives range from genuine, Satanic evil to bugspittle crazy and everywhere in between, I'M NOT YOUR GIRL.
But then you morons were never champions of subtlety.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 01:34 AM (AIGFR)
394
"His mindset, at the time, doesn't change the result one bit."
Yes it does.
Eventually, anyway.
Suicide is always anguishing for the survivors. But knowing that your loved one was not in his right mind has a different effect than knowing that he was a selfish bastard who just wanted to escape the consequences of his evil actions.
Or does every every everything need to be conflated all the time?
Yes it does.
Eventually, anyway.
Suicide is always anguishing for the survivors. But knowing that your loved one was not in his right mind has a different effect than knowing that he was a selfish bastard who just wanted to escape the consequences of his evil actions.
Or does every every everything need to be conflated all the time?
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 01:37 AM (AIGFR)
395
"It's just the way it is and depression is an illness that affects different people in different ways. It is not a moral failing."
Boy howdy, it feels like it, huh? That's why it's so horrible when Matt Walsh et al. keep harping on "it's a choice," because it's the same as saying "not only do you feel like a worthless piece of shit, you are one, and here's why."
Save the "choice" sermons for AA and prison.
Depressives need TLC.
But nobody wants to provide TLC; slamming us against the wall with THIS IS THE TRUTH sermons is ever so much more fun.
Boy howdy, it feels like it, huh? That's why it's so horrible when Matt Walsh et al. keep harping on "it's a choice," because it's the same as saying "not only do you feel like a worthless piece of shit, you are one, and here's why."
Save the "choice" sermons for AA and prison.
Depressives need TLC.
But nobody wants to provide TLC; slamming us against the wall with THIS IS THE TRUTH sermons is ever so much more fun.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 01:43 AM (AIGFR)
396
"You just gotta make the jump, kiddo. People far, far smarter than all of us have done it."
You're telling someone with a spinal cord injury to get up and walk. How is that not cruel?
A depressive's failure to find comfort in faith is NOT from being unbelieving or cynical or even uninformed. It's from having a broken brain.
That's our test in this life: not being able to maintain a very good connection with the divine because our radio equipment is flaky. When we do religion, we have to fly blind most of the time -- we're obedient to God's commandments because we know they're right, not because we're being sustained by warm fuzzy.
It's also YOUR test: how do you deal with people who are unable to access the same divine grace that you are able to access because of a biological defect?
Do you dump us out of our wheelchairs (so to speak) and command us to rise up and walk? (Walking is why God gave us LEGS, after all, and that's just the plain and honest truth.) Or do you comfort us in our anguish and pray on our behalf, accepting that we're dealing with a perplexing and relentless problem that won't be fully resolved in this life?
Can I request with all earnestness that you choose the second option?
Because people who dump us out of our wheelchairs also refuse to believe us when we say we can't move our legs. They refuse to believe us ON PRINCIPLE.
So we end up lying there in a pile instead of being helped by the Priest and the Levite and the Scribe and the Pharisee.
All of whom are pretty damned good at lecturing us on how we're not walking by choice.
You're telling someone with a spinal cord injury to get up and walk. How is that not cruel?
A depressive's failure to find comfort in faith is NOT from being unbelieving or cynical or even uninformed. It's from having a broken brain.
That's our test in this life: not being able to maintain a very good connection with the divine because our radio equipment is flaky. When we do religion, we have to fly blind most of the time -- we're obedient to God's commandments because we know they're right, not because we're being sustained by warm fuzzy.
It's also YOUR test: how do you deal with people who are unable to access the same divine grace that you are able to access because of a biological defect?
Do you dump us out of our wheelchairs (so to speak) and command us to rise up and walk? (Walking is why God gave us LEGS, after all, and that's just the plain and honest truth.) Or do you comfort us in our anguish and pray on our behalf, accepting that we're dealing with a perplexing and relentless problem that won't be fully resolved in this life?
Can I request with all earnestness that you choose the second option?
Because people who dump us out of our wheelchairs also refuse to believe us when we say we can't move our legs. They refuse to believe us ON PRINCIPLE.
So we end up lying there in a pile instead of being helped by the Priest and the Levite and the Scribe and the Pharisee.
All of whom are pretty damned good at lecturing us on how we're not walking by choice.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 01:56 AM (AIGFR)
397
I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with people being judgmental. Are you suffering from clinical depress now? I have been helped by the by the "Priest" several of whom have been affected by clinical depression themselves.
I figure they're lots f people that don't get it. (haven't experienced it) and lots that do. I can't change the people that don't get it. I am just grateful for the ones that do
I figure they're lots f people that don't get it. (haven't experienced it) and lots that do. I can't change the people that don't get it. I am just grateful for the ones that do
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 14, 2014 02:31 AM (oyOpn)
398
"I am sorry that you have had bad experiences with people being judgmental"
I've had to become a recluse, partly to avoid the gut-punches from the Matt Walshes of the world and partly to avoid inflicting my gloomy, prickly self on the rest of humanity. I hate having to apologize for ripping someone's head off after they deliver the inevitable gut punch.
Because I'm the one who has to apologize, see. They get to keep their ignorance and prejudices, but because I had the intemperate outburst (out of nowhere!), I'm the one in the wrong.
There's also no forgiveness. People figure you're too awful to deal with so they just stay away.
It's better that way. I have no use for a firefighter who can't spot a fire.
I've had to become a recluse, partly to avoid the gut-punches from the Matt Walshes of the world and partly to avoid inflicting my gloomy, prickly self on the rest of humanity. I hate having to apologize for ripping someone's head off after they deliver the inevitable gut punch.
Because I'm the one who has to apologize, see. They get to keep their ignorance and prejudices, but because I had the intemperate outburst (out of nowhere!), I'm the one in the wrong.
There's also no forgiveness. People figure you're too awful to deal with so they just stay away.
It's better that way. I have no use for a firefighter who can't spot a fire.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 03:34 AM (AIGFR)
399
Here's an exceptionally good post from a pastor who struggles with depression, and he tells Matt Walsh to get some compassion already.
http://tinyurl.com/owrne8a
"Living is the pro-active choice. Is
suicide a choice? It has been a free choice every time I have ever said
no so far. I have chosen to say no. That is not because we can blindly,
arrogantly, say that it is a moral choice, though. It is because I have
been really lucky that I am (still) healthy enough to say no. The thing
is, saying 'no' to suicide is evidence that I am healthy enough to say
no. But, if I should ever commit suicide, it will not be because 'I'
made the choice, but because my depression would have. Because the
depression would have won its battle over me, no medically or morally
differently than if cancer had won a battle over me.
"And the fact that Robin Williams lost that battle is a tragedy and not a choice. "
http://tinyurl.com/owrne8a
"Living is the pro-active choice. Is
suicide a choice? It has been a free choice every time I have ever said
no so far. I have chosen to say no. That is not because we can blindly,
arrogantly, say that it is a moral choice, though. It is because I have
been really lucky that I am (still) healthy enough to say no. The thing
is, saying 'no' to suicide is evidence that I am healthy enough to say
no. But, if I should ever commit suicide, it will not be because 'I'
made the choice, but because my depression would have. Because the
depression would have won its battle over me, no medically or morally
differently than if cancer had won a battle over me.
"And the fact that Robin Williams lost that battle is a tragedy and not a choice. "
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 03:51 AM (AIGFR)
400
Because people who dump us out of our wheelchairs also refuse to believe
us when we say we can't move our legs. They refuse to believe us ON
PRINCIPLE.
#####
I was diagnosed with severe depression and generalized anxiety disorder fifteen years ago. I've been on heavy medication since.
Believe me, I believe you. I live what many see as a "character defect" every day.
I'm not saying my relationship with God is perfect, or some kind of magic bullet. I still struggle every minute. But I know I'm loved, and I'm not worried about dying. Which, ironically, helps me want to live more.
Please be well - as well as you can. Zero judgment here.
us when we say we can't move our legs. They refuse to believe us ON
PRINCIPLE.
#####
I was diagnosed with severe depression and generalized anxiety disorder fifteen years ago. I've been on heavy medication since.
Believe me, I believe you. I live what many see as a "character defect" every day.
I'm not saying my relationship with God is perfect, or some kind of magic bullet. I still struggle every minute. But I know I'm loved, and I'm not worried about dying. Which, ironically, helps me want to live more.
Please be well - as well as you can. Zero judgment here.
Posted by: Just some guy at August 14, 2014 07:37 AM (yxw0r)
401
393 "That wasn't mental illness: not depression, not bipolar, not schizophrenia. It was pure evil."
That sounds a lot like schizophrenia. My grandfather was clinically diagnosed with it and would have done what that POS did. By all rights, he belonged in an asylum where he would be separated from society. But my family was against it for many reasons, the biggest being the checks he collected as a veteran.
Evil is the word we give to things we do not understand, and the human brain is a big unknown.
That said, my grandfather knew kidnapping, rape and murder were wrong, but he still did it and got away with it. Even though he was mentally ill, he still had free will. He just had greater demons than many of us struggle with. He should have turned himself in, but he didn't. My family condoning his behavior, as wildly destructive as it was, encouraged him.
Likewise, I think RW was depressed / had depression. We don't know. Lately, we diagnose people post-mortem. Suicide? That was depression! Nobody is responsible for their poor choices. Abortion? It's your choice. Now you're freeeeee to not have to support a child.
Years of alcoholism and cocaine abuse worsened any chemical imbalance. And we loved him for it, because he was making us laugh. His ex-wives loved him for his money. And just as my family turned a blind eye to my schizophrenic evil POS grandfather, RW was allowed to run wild. Like many celebrities, he was surrounded by people who did not challenge him to grow, surrounded by parasites and sycophants.
I'm sorry that his life ended so tragically, so young. But he made that decision. That's the saddest part of all.
That sounds a lot like schizophrenia. My grandfather was clinically diagnosed with it and would have done what that POS did. By all rights, he belonged in an asylum where he would be separated from society. But my family was against it for many reasons, the biggest being the checks he collected as a veteran.
Evil is the word we give to things we do not understand, and the human brain is a big unknown.
That said, my grandfather knew kidnapping, rape and murder were wrong, but he still did it and got away with it. Even though he was mentally ill, he still had free will. He just had greater demons than many of us struggle with. He should have turned himself in, but he didn't. My family condoning his behavior, as wildly destructive as it was, encouraged him.
Likewise, I think RW was depressed / had depression. We don't know. Lately, we diagnose people post-mortem. Suicide? That was depression! Nobody is responsible for their poor choices. Abortion? It's your choice. Now you're freeeeee to not have to support a child.
Years of alcoholism and cocaine abuse worsened any chemical imbalance. And we loved him for it, because he was making us laugh. His ex-wives loved him for his money. And just as my family turned a blind eye to my schizophrenic evil POS grandfather, RW was allowed to run wild. Like many celebrities, he was surrounded by people who did not challenge him to grow, surrounded by parasites and sycophants.
I'm sorry that his life ended so tragically, so young. But he made that decision. That's the saddest part of all.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 14, 2014 09:40 AM (Y92Nd)
402
399 I'm not interested in this pastor's lies any more than the excuses of the Catholic priests who molested children or the Church that covered it up. I wish him success in his struggles with depression and hope he finds true faith in God.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 14, 2014 09:43 AM (Y92Nd)
403
I was listening live when Rush said his comments about the COVERAGE of William's death by the msm. But my take was it was stupid and inappropriate to even be talking about such a contentious thing so soon after his death. I listened for a while and then got disgusted with Limbaugh and went to Dennis Prager. There are times when I thinnk that obama and Rush both have tin ears.
Posted by: inspectorudy at August 14, 2014 02:52 PM (r8HNW)
404
I'm pretty sure I limited my remarks to people with MENTAL ILLNESS. "Non compos mentis" is the legal term for insane. Maybe you can find me the theologian (or the scripture) wherein God affirms that insanity is no excuse for sin, that people with physically damaged brains are held to the same standard as those who have healthy brains.
Those who are truly mentally ill are incapable of understanding this discussion.
On the other hand, there are those who are borderline sane - enough to comprehend our words, who understand the idea of duty and responsibility and choice and right and wrong - and what you're saying could be taken as, "Hey, I'm not responsible for what I do." - even though they are sane enough to make a right choice.
The truly mentally ill are not concerned with what I think of them, or what truth is, or how concerned you are with their plight.
The borderline mentally ill could mistake your words as an excuse to "just end it" and be "free" when they still had a fighting chance. Help those who can be helped, as far as you can help them.
The fact that Williams suffered his whole life from bipolar disorder (or something similar) means that it's appropriate to attribute his actions to insanity, not selfishness.
A comedian who can communicate ideas and concepts to deliberately trigger people's funny bone is not insane. Perhaps he was insane at the moment he decided to hang himself - but perhaps not - and now you have all sorts of people with suicidal tendencies seeing the glowering treatment given to his suicide. "He's freeeee! It's not his fault! It's okay to end your life, we won't judge!"
It is vital to stamp out suicidal thoughts. Entertain the thought and it grows and grows and grows.
That's the root of the suicide contagion - you're forced to entertain the thought of suicide every time you recall that special someone. "What if ... ? Dad chose to do it when he was in trouble... Free from pain?"
But suicide is not freedom, that is a lie. It is a murderous idea that must be destroyed. Don't let it take root, and don't spread ideas that encourage it to take root.
Those who are truly mentally ill are incapable of understanding this discussion.
On the other hand, there are those who are borderline sane - enough to comprehend our words, who understand the idea of duty and responsibility and choice and right and wrong - and what you're saying could be taken as, "Hey, I'm not responsible for what I do." - even though they are sane enough to make a right choice.
The truly mentally ill are not concerned with what I think of them, or what truth is, or how concerned you are with their plight.
The borderline mentally ill could mistake your words as an excuse to "just end it" and be "free" when they still had a fighting chance. Help those who can be helped, as far as you can help them.
The fact that Williams suffered his whole life from bipolar disorder (or something similar) means that it's appropriate to attribute his actions to insanity, not selfishness.
A comedian who can communicate ideas and concepts to deliberately trigger people's funny bone is not insane. Perhaps he was insane at the moment he decided to hang himself - but perhaps not - and now you have all sorts of people with suicidal tendencies seeing the glowering treatment given to his suicide. "He's freeeee! It's not his fault! It's okay to end your life, we won't judge!"
It is vital to stamp out suicidal thoughts. Entertain the thought and it grows and grows and grows.
That's the root of the suicide contagion - you're forced to entertain the thought of suicide every time you recall that special someone. "What if ... ? Dad chose to do it when he was in trouble... Free from pain?"
But suicide is not freedom, that is a lie. It is a murderous idea that must be destroyed. Don't let it take root, and don't spread ideas that encourage it to take root.
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 03:48 PM (0NdlF)
405
Boy howdy, it feels like it, huh? That's why it's so horrible when Matt Walsh et al. keep harping on "it's a choice," because it's the same as saying "not only do you feel like a worthless piece of shit, you are one, and here's why."
Matt Walsh said SUICIDE is a choice. Not depression. Not mental illness.
Suicide is the choice and action to take a deadly weapon and use it on yourself. The choice to plan your own death, and to follow through.
Matt Walsh said SUICIDE is a choice. Not depression. Not mental illness.
Suicide is the choice and action to take a deadly weapon and use it on yourself. The choice to plan your own death, and to follow through.
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 03:52 PM (0NdlF)
406
402 399 I'm not interested in this pastor's lies any more than the excuses of the Catholic priests who molested children or the Church that covered it up. I wish him success in his struggles with depression and hope he finds true faith in God.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 14, 2014 09:43 AM (Y92Nd)
Well put.
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear."
There is no irresistible evil that can seize us. God have mercy on us and lead us away from sin and death.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at August 14, 2014 09:43 AM (Y92Nd)
Well put.
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear."
There is no irresistible evil that can seize us. God have mercy on us and lead us away from sin and death.
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 04:05 PM (0NdlF)
407
"Evil is the word we give to things we do not understand, and the human brain is a big unknown."
No, evil is the word we give to actions that explicitly reject goodness.
A schizophrenic is not evil; he's just crazy.
Josh Powell wasn't a schizophrenic, he was a pedophile, a murderer, and a family annihilator.
Possibly also a sociopath, but not a schizo.
No, evil is the word we give to actions that explicitly reject goodness.
A schizophrenic is not evil; he's just crazy.
Josh Powell wasn't a schizophrenic, he was a pedophile, a murderer, and a family annihilator.
Possibly also a sociopath, but not a schizo.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 05:39 PM (VrEQt)
408
Ad revenue must be down.
Posted by: White Punk at August 14, 2014 05:44 PM (xuLm4)
409
"Those who are truly mentally ill are incapable of understanding this discussion."
Your definition of "truly mentally ill" is too narrow, DOCTOR. Bipolar disorder is a true mental illness. Severe clinical depression is a true mental illness.
Just because we don't hallucinate, just because we can hold down jobs (sometimes), just because we can post coherent sentences in a blog doesn't mean that the illness isn't real or true.
I don't know why it's so important for you people to be able to get upon your high horses and lecture INSANE PEOPLE about what they can and cannot do with their broken brains.
Do you think we're getting away with something?
No, seriously. You act like we're getting away with something. Avoiding responsibility. Getting a free pass.
We get to off ourselves with a clear conscience but you don't?
HOLY SHIT you're beyond reason.
Every. Single. Person. With. Mental. Illness. would prefer to have total and complete control and accountability over our minds and acts and lives.
You have no idea how anguishing and humiliating it is to not be able to control your own conscious mind. Because like you, we think that we SHOULD be able to, and it feels like hell when we can't.
Getting suicidal is pure hell. We'd all give BOTH eyes to never go there again.
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is
faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear."
You left out the part where if you get tempted something awful, he'll provide an escape hatch.
When mental illness destroys the ability to make a rational choice, up to and including the act of suicide, it is NOT TEMPTATION, it's INSANITY.
But you keep holding us accountable for our broken brains, doctor. Be just like Job's stupid friends who were so bull-headed about their false theology that they wouldn't listen to Job's insistence that he was innocent. Because THEY KNEW that Job's life wouldn't have been upended unless God was punishing him for sin.
Keep it up, you malicious ghoul. I'm sure Jesus would.
Your definition of "truly mentally ill" is too narrow, DOCTOR. Bipolar disorder is a true mental illness. Severe clinical depression is a true mental illness.
Just because we don't hallucinate, just because we can hold down jobs (sometimes), just because we can post coherent sentences in a blog doesn't mean that the illness isn't real or true.
I don't know why it's so important for you people to be able to get upon your high horses and lecture INSANE PEOPLE about what they can and cannot do with their broken brains.
Do you think we're getting away with something?
No, seriously. You act like we're getting away with something. Avoiding responsibility. Getting a free pass.
We get to off ourselves with a clear conscience but you don't?
HOLY SHIT you're beyond reason.
Every. Single. Person. With. Mental. Illness. would prefer to have total and complete control and accountability over our minds and acts and lives.
You have no idea how anguishing and humiliating it is to not be able to control your own conscious mind. Because like you, we think that we SHOULD be able to, and it feels like hell when we can't.
Getting suicidal is pure hell. We'd all give BOTH eyes to never go there again.
"No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is
faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear."
You left out the part where if you get tempted something awful, he'll provide an escape hatch.
When mental illness destroys the ability to make a rational choice, up to and including the act of suicide, it is NOT TEMPTATION, it's INSANITY.
But you keep holding us accountable for our broken brains, doctor. Be just like Job's stupid friends who were so bull-headed about their false theology that they wouldn't listen to Job's insistence that he was innocent. Because THEY KNEW that Job's life wouldn't have been upended unless God was punishing him for sin.
Keep it up, you malicious ghoul. I'm sure Jesus would.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 05:54 PM (VrEQt)
410
"The borderline mentally ill could mistake your words as an excuse to 'just end it'"
Given that you don't have the faintest idea what goes through the head of the "borderline mentally ill," you have absolutely no basis for that statement except for your arrogance and malice.
Not to mention that you used "borderline" so incorrectly that you need to be slapped.
Keep it up, Eliphaz. You're doing God's work by holding us to account.
Given that you don't have the faintest idea what goes through the head of the "borderline mentally ill," you have absolutely no basis for that statement except for your arrogance and malice.
Not to mention that you used "borderline" so incorrectly that you need to be slapped.
Keep it up, Eliphaz. You're doing God's work by holding us to account.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 05:56 PM (VrEQt)
411
Keep it up, you malicious ghoul. I'm sure Jesus would.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 05:54 PM (VrEQt)
You've got me. Suicide is A-OK if you plead insanity.
Posted by: dicentra at August 14, 2014 05:54 PM (VrEQt)
You've got me. Suicide is A-OK if you plead insanity.
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 06:06 PM (0NdlF)
412
Just because we don't hallucinate, just because we can hold down jobs (sometimes), just because we can post coherent sentences in a blog doesn't mean that the illness isn't real or true.
I'm not questioning the existence of mental illness. But mental illness is not binary either. Some can handle it with medication, or lifestyle choices, and others need to just be locked up for their own safety and the safety of others. In that broad continuum, there are still choices a mentally ill person can make, and wherever he can, he should not do wrong.
Suicide is a wrong both to the individual and to all the people connected to him. Self-murder is not any more excusable than other-murder. That there may be several murderers who were insane does not change the standard applied to everyone: Don't murder.
Same logic. Don't murder. Don't rape. Don't steal. Don't suicide. Does "don't rape" bother you the same way that "don't suicide" does?
I'm not questioning the existence of mental illness. But mental illness is not binary either. Some can handle it with medication, or lifestyle choices, and others need to just be locked up for their own safety and the safety of others. In that broad continuum, there are still choices a mentally ill person can make, and wherever he can, he should not do wrong.
Suicide is a wrong both to the individual and to all the people connected to him. Self-murder is not any more excusable than other-murder. That there may be several murderers who were insane does not change the standard applied to everyone: Don't murder.
Same logic. Don't murder. Don't rape. Don't steal. Don't suicide. Does "don't rape" bother you the same way that "don't suicide" does?
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 06:29 PM (0NdlF)
413
Given that you don't have the faintest idea what goes through the head of the "borderline mentally ill," you have absolutely no basis for that statement except for your arrogance and malice.
Given that you have absolutely no clue what I grew up with, and didn't even think to check, I wouldn't be so quick to throw those labels around.
And even then - what does it matter? Truth is true regardless of our personal experiences. There's a reality outside ourselves. Ground yourself with Truth, or float with the tides and get sucked into the void.
Given that you have absolutely no clue what I grew up with, and didn't even think to check, I wouldn't be so quick to throw those labels around.
And even then - what does it matter? Truth is true regardless of our personal experiences. There's a reality outside ourselves. Ground yourself with Truth, or float with the tides and get sucked into the void.
Posted by: CM at August 14, 2014 06:33 PM (0NdlF)
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