Alaska Senate Update: More Than 20,000 Ballots Left To Process

Okay, don't freak out just yet. Not all of them are Republican votes and not all of them will be allowed to be counted but it's a fair number of votes. Here's the breakdown...

Miller is currently leading Murkowski by 1,668 votes.
Elections officials on Thursday evening released the first detailed breakdown of the remaining ballots.
The state has received back 11,266 absentee ballots so far out of over 16,000 requested. The ballots had to be postmarked by Tuesday's election but can come in as much as 15 days afterward.
There are also 658 early votes not yet counted and 8,972 questioned ballots. A ballot can be "questioned" for several reasons. Often the reason is that the voter cast the ballot in a precinct other than where they live.
... The Division of Elections plans to count all the absentee ballots on Aug. 31 that it has received by then. Some of the questioned ballots will be disqualified; for example if it turns out the voter really wasn't registered in Alaska. Those that are valid will likely be counted on Sept. 3. Elections officials said they'll do a final count of absentees and any other remaining ballots on Sept. 8.

The number of remaining ballots changes daily as more absentees come in and there's no way to know how many will be disqualified. But if all the current number of 20,896 remaining ballots were counted and three-fourths of them voted in the Republican Senate primary, Murkowski would need the vote on roughly 55 percent to win.

Obviously the nearly 9,000 or so challenged ballots are a BFD as Joe Biden would say because they were not factored in to earlier numbers. And no, this isn't a dirty trick designed to screw Miller, it's a normal part of every election. Though to my untrained eye almost 9,00 votes seems high. The thing to remember though is that they aren't all Republican votes either. That's the total from all races. Given that Republican turnout was significantly heavier than the Democrats, it's likely the uncounted questioned votes will reflect that fact. A lot of them also won't be allowed to be counted as well.

Still, Murkowski is facing a very steep climb.

Meanwhile, the Miller campaign is calling on the National Republican Senatorial Committee to stay out of the proceedings.

Joe Miller, candidate for United States Senate, believes the National Republican Senatorial Committee's proper place during the Republican Primary Election in Alaska is on the sidelines. The purpose of the organization is "electing Republicans to the U.S. Senate." It is not to pick favorites amongst those running, nor is it to send lawyers to try to manipulate the outcome. Miller said, "You have to be concerned anytime somebody lawyers up and tries to pull an Al Franken, if you will. We are very aware that there may be some attempt here to skew the results. I hope that is not the case. Alaskans won't stand for any post-election foul play; the accurate vote of the people must stand.”

Miller also pointed out that Lisa Murkowski has not publicly ruled out a third party run. “It is inappropriate for the NRSC to spend money on a candidate who may not even be the Republican nominee and in fact may change parties to run against the Party's choice,” said Miller.

I know a lot of people agree with Miller and I get why he would want them to stay out but it seems pretty clear to me that the NRSC is within bounds to help Murkowski here.

The NRSC isn't a free floating, independent body, it's created and run by the Republican members of the Senate (which includes Murkowski, at the moment). It's Republican Senators who raise the money for it. If the rule suddenly became Republican Senators couldn't call on the resources they raised when they need them the most or that they could be used against them, the Committee would disappear in about an hour.

I have no problem with the NRSC helping incumbent members over challengers, the problem for me begins when they interfere in open primaries (like Florida).

The important thing is that if (fingers crossed) Miller wins, the NRSC supports him.

Posted by: DrewM. at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Well, I see that Drew has become a tool of teh Republican Establishment

Posted by: Quilly Mammmoth at August 27, 2010 11:02 AM (9wR2s)

2
Murkowski would need the vote on roughly 55 percent to win.

Not exactly a big hill to climb.

Posted by: the captain's log at August 27, 2010 11:05 AM (uFokq)

3 Just let me know how many votes you need, Murk.

Posted by: Dem, The Balloty Hunter at August 27, 2010 11:05 AM (QUssN)

4 Don't have meltdown, I was just kidding.

Posted by: Quilly Mammmoth at August 27, 2010 11:05 AM (9wR2s)

5 does that include the "forgotten" in the back seat or trunk of the poll workers cars ballots? or is it too early to worry about them?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at August 27, 2010 11:07 AM (JeQ5T)

6
The funny thing about very close elections: the more days that pass the more likely the worse candidate wins.

Weird, that.

Posted by: the captain's log at August 27, 2010 11:07 AM (uFokq)

7 Dem, The Balloty Hunter
Clever.

Posted by: Dang Straights at August 27, 2010 11:07 AM (fx8sm)

8 I have no problem with the NRSC helping incumbent members over
challengers, the problem for me begins when they interfere in open
primaries (like Florida).

Afterall, we have no problem with incumbents becoming barnacle encrusted and bloating themselves at the public trough. No sir.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at August 27, 2010 11:08 AM (SHKl9)

9 "You have to be concerned anytime somebody lawyers up and tries to pull
an Al Franken, if you will. We are very aware that there may be some
attempt here to skew the results..."

I have no problem with the NRSC helping incumbent members over
challengers, the problem for me begins when they interfere in open
primaries (like Florida).

I have a problem with the NRSC interfering to "help" an incumbent who lost the primary, open or not. Whatever help the NRSC wants to give an incumbent during a primary should be PRIOR TO THE ELECTION, during the campaign not the counting of votes.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 27, 2010 11:08 AM (H+LJc)

10 Puts the Libertarian Party in a tough position. If she wins by "finding" enough ballots then they lose their chance to earn a permanent spot on the general election ballot. If she fails to "find" enough ballots they have to decide if they want to sell out for a permanent spot on the ballot.

Posted by: Quilly Mammmoth at August 27, 2010 11:11 AM (9wR2s)

11 According to the AK election website which I referenced on this early this morning most of those "challenged" ballots are ones where the voters cast a ballot outside of their registered voting district. The vote will be allowed if it is shown that the voter IS a resident of AK and not out of State. To me, that seems fair for the Senate race.

They also estimated that 2/3 of the absentee ballots are for the Republican Primary.

Posted by: Vic at August 27, 2010 11:12 AM (/jbAw)

12 I second that maverick. They are both Republicans. The NRSC should stay out until it's between R and D. It's counter productive to anger one side of the party instead of uniting it against a D.

Posted by: ryukyu at August 27, 2010 11:12 AM (MOHSR)

13 The NRSC isn't a free floating, independent body, it's created and run by the
Republican members of the Senate (which includes Murkowski, at the moment).

Drew, I love ya man, but you are way off base here. The NRSC's job is to help elect Republican Senators when they are running against Democrats. Not to get involved in the primaries to decide who that Republican will be.

Otherwise, it almost looks like they want to decided who will be teh candidate, as opposed to allowing the actual voters todo that.

Posted by: wiserbud at August 27, 2010 11:12 AM (EW49d)

14 9. Add, "in a primary". I don't give a crap what they pull to help the republican in the general. Go full out acorn/corrupt/ballots in the backseat for all I care. It's only fair.

Posted by: dagny at August 27, 2010 11:13 AM (4oIRO)

15 http://tiny.cc/c2dzm

I think we've found the next "Double Rainbow Guy".

And he's a Dem.

Posted by: Navin R Johnson at August 27, 2010 11:13 AM (HpT9p)

16 If the NRSC's purpose is to get Republicans elected to the Senate, that happens during a general election...not a primary.

Maybe their purpose should be restated to say that they get INCUMBENTS reelected.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 11:13 AM (VuLos)

17 This is why I suffer campaign mailings to donate to individual candidates. Of course I'm small potatoes and am not going to get anywhere near the contribution limits.

Posted by: Palerider at August 27, 2010 11:13 AM (cQZV0)

18 PAPA Murkowski is going to call in some favors. Lisa is going to win, it will appear, accurately or inaccurately, that the NRSC helped her win.
It will piss off a lot of people in the party.

Posted by: Ben at August 27, 2010 11:13 AM (wuv1c)

19 oh gawd, now ace is gonna get all pissy again.
one of you guys post somethin 'bout blowin up shit to make him happy.

Posted by: Tom Servo at August 27, 2010 11:14 AM (T1boi)

20 These days, any close election will involve lawyers for ballot counting, recounts, negotiations, etc. That's just the way it is.

As an incumbent Senator, Lisa M has access to the "pre-paid legal" services of the NRSC, so that's who she has called. The NRSC part of the story is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

The more interesting part of the story is the stuff about the Alaska GOP making robo-calls on her behalf, the absolute clarity that we are getting about how this primary is ESTABLISHMENT v. NEW GUY.

Posted by: Less at August 27, 2010 11:14 AM (PGXeZ)

21 every election. Though to my untrained eye almost 9,00 votes seems high.
isn't that 15% of the the votes cast?
that seems extremely high

Posted by: Ben at August 27, 2010 11:14 AM (wuv1c)

22 I have no problem with the NRSC helping incumbent members over
challengers

Posted by: DrewM.

Why, of course you don't, dear boy. We never thought you did....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 27, 2010 11:14 AM (3WdEX)

23 They're supposed to help senators against opponents of the opposite party, not their own.
Didn't they promise not to spend money in contested primaries?
Why yes, yes they fucking did.
Please don't tell me that flying resources to Alaska is not "spending money".
Cornyn lied
Comity died

Posted by: Veeshir at August 27, 2010 11:15 AM (aFnZ8)

24 I have no problem with the NRSC helping incumbent members over
challengers, the problem for me begins when they interfere in open
primaries (like Florida).

The other problem is how the average voter will perceive this. Those much-talked about "optics." Frankly, the NRSC's move looks lousy. Everything you say may be right, and the NRSC may be obligated to help Murkowski keep the seat Daddy gave her, but to the audience it's going to look like yet another instance of Beltway elitists barring the door to those not in the club.

Posted by: Phineas at August 27, 2010 11:15 AM (eabeg)

25
If you don't have a problem with the party's entrenched establishment bucking the will of the people...

Posted by: the captain's log at August 27, 2010 11:17 AM (uFokq)

26 I hope at least the NRSC told her to shut up about the 3rd party. That would seem well within their bounds.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at August 27, 2010 11:18 AM (L8kaT)

27 19
oh gawd, now ace is gonna get all pissy again.
Well, I, for one will not rest until there are 66 clones of Jim DeMint seated in the Senate!

Posted by: Quilly Mammmoth at August 27, 2010 11:19 AM (9wR2s)

28 It's "Miller time."

Miller (R), great.

Miller (L), great.

Lisa, two can play that game. Thanks for the idea. When the game is rigged, play by the new "rules."

Constitutional conservative. Label be d**ned.

Posted by: Youreitherontheboatorofftheboat at August 27, 2010 11:20 AM (JhZEL)

29 I don't have a problem with a the NRSC doing consulting for Republican senators. that is their job. I just worry they will go beyond their stated mission of consulting.
also the crist rubio isn't a fair comparison.
Crist wasn't a sitting senator. Their backing of him was completely uncalled for as he wasn't member of the senate and therefore not entitlted to the resources of the NRSC.

Posted by: Ben at August 27, 2010 11:20 AM (wuv1c)

30 Shennanigans!!

Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2010 11:21 AM (pr+up)

31 If I were Miller I'd line up Ted Olson to argue his case.
Of course, Ted's gone off on his own agenda.
But really, an incumbent who's gasping for air in the balloting at this point should probably bow out. Shouldn't the ~50% rejection of the incumbent kind of communicate to Murky that she's not widely acceptable? All of this legal maneuvering is counterproductive.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 27, 2010 11:21 AM (8lCJT)

32 The bad part about this is if it drags on and on there will be no time for the "winner" to campaign against the Democrat. The Dem. supposedly had no chance, but if Murk goes Third party then there goes a Senate seat.

Posted by: Donna at August 27, 2010 11:21 AM (A77nn)

33 I'll be there tonight.

Posted by: Al Franken at August 27, 2010 11:21 AM (mka2b)

34 I don't see the problem here.

Posted by: Olympia Snowe at August 27, 2010 11:22 AM (AZGON)

35 The funny thing about very close elections: the more days that pass the more likely the worse candidate wins.Weird, that.
No shit.

Posted by: al franken, sen. (D-ipshit) at August 27, 2010 11:22 AM (3phFo)

36 Any NRSC lawyer heading to Alaska will probably fly in form Seattle. It will be curious to see how many Seattle area (King County) election officialsare on the same flight. They make finding "new" ballots an artform.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 27, 2010 11:22 AM (emgJW)

37 Can't disagree that the NRSC can do what it wants. But they shouldn't be surprised when their coffers are low and the money just isn't coming in like it used to. We send our moolah directly to the candidate so our money does what we want it to.

Posted by: Mr. Barky at August 27, 2010 11:23 AM (qwK3S)

38 Hey buddy, what's up?

Posted by: the fan at August 27, 2010 11:23 AM (9Sbz+)

39 Oh, not much... just flying by here, seeing what you were doing

Posted by: the shit at August 27, 2010 11:24 AM (9Sbz+)

40 You guys are just jealous because we run the club.

Posted by: Susan Collins at August 27, 2010 11:24 AM (AZGON)

41 Thinking back a bit to what Ace was saying about that school coach; I'd recommend putting up a link to this article:
http://tinyurl.com/34pqfm7

Posted by: Entropy at August 27, 2010 11:25 AM (IsLT6)

42 In other news, the fed will try to prop up the economy with your kids money while cbs props up obama, giving him a 48% approval, but with a wieghting of +7% demorats.

Fed vows to buy "securities" if need be, stock market climbs. Unlimited funds for the wall street, taxes for you.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at August 27, 2010 11:26 AM (L8kaT)

43 After a brilliant oratory in front of an upstate Indian tribe, an oratory in which President Obama closed with a promise to help his "red brothers and sisters" the tribe broke out in loving adoration and cheers. For his efforts, the Chief gave Obama a plaque, dubbing him, "Walking Eagle." Obama waved to the crowd and departed in a motorcade.

The MFM asked the Chief why he dubbed Obama "Walking Eagle." Weird, huh?

Posted by: A bird so full of shit that it can no longer fly at August 27, 2010 11:26 AM (GOG1H)

44 Drew,

It might help some of us understand your position better if you could explain exactly what would have happened differently in this race had the NRSC not helped Murkowski.

If the NRSC waited until the primary candidate was chosen, what's the problem?

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at August 27, 2010 11:26 AM (oL8lS)

45 I just found a box of ballots in a a moose's butt.

Posted by: Ben at August 27, 2010 11:27 AM (wuv1c)

46 Well... Miller is screwed.

If you listen carefully, you'll hear the sound of a thousand car trunks owned by Murky staffers opening to uncover thousands of pro-Murky ballots.

Posted by: CoolCzech at August 27, 2010 11:27 AM (tJjm/)

47 The NRSC isn't a free floating, independent body, it's created and run
by the Republican members of the Senate (which includes Murkowski, at
the moment).

Which is precisely why I will never, ever again send a single solitary dime to either the NRSC or the NRCC (and probably the RNC as well). Candidates I support - only. Period.

Posted by: DocJ at August 27, 2010 11:29 AM (dt6br)

48 BTW - here's the NRSC says about itself:

About

The National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) is the only political committee solely dedicated to electing Republicans to the U.S. Senate.

What We Do:

The NRSC provides invaluable support and assistance to current and prospective Republican U.S. Senate candidates in the areas of budget planning, election law compliance, fundraising, communications tools and messaging, research and strategy.

http://www.nrsc.org/about-the-nrsc

You know, nothing in there about being an incumbent Dreikaiserbund.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 27, 2010 11:29 AM (3WdEX)

49 I told everyone over and over that Al Franken plated by the rules and the Minnesota electoral process worked. Remember? Why should this be any different? We must not fight the process.

Have you bought your cabin on my cruise ship yet? Time is running out.

Posted by: Ed Morrissey at August 27, 2010 11:29 AM (AZGON)

50
The other problem is how the average voter will perceive this. Those much-talked about "optics." Frankly, the NRSC's move looks lousy. Everything you say may be right, and the NRSC may be obligated to help Murkowski keep the seat Daddy gave her, but to the audience it's going to look like yet another instance of Beltway elitists barring the door to those not in the club.

Exactly. And this illustrates a huge problem with the Repub Establishment, and why folks like Palin and Christie are so popular. Republicans just can NOT communicate effectively.

Posted by: Less at August 27, 2010 11:29 AM (PGXeZ)

51
If the GOP was a automaker they'd still be cranking out those big station wagons with wood paneling off the assembly line.

Posted by: the captain's log at August 27, 2010 11:31 AM (uFokq)

52 Nothin' for nothin' here, but it is still possible that Murkowski will win legitimately.

Unfortunately, well-meaning people who jump in and start throwing around insults and accusations may well end up helping the Dem candidate in November.

I'd rather see Miller win, but if it's The Murk, she is now so tainted by her own side that her chances of winning against the Dem are being torpedoed.

Nice move, people.

Drew is calling this one correctly.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 27, 2010 11:32 AM (Ulu3i)

53 "I told everyone over and over that Al Franken plated by the rules"

Played by the rules. Sorry, but politics makes me think about food.

Posted by: Ed Morrissey at August 27, 2010 11:32 AM (AZGON)

54 Miller (L), great.
I like the cut of your jib.

Posted by: Entropy at August 27, 2010 11:32 AM (IsLT6)

55 The Party is in between a rock and a hardplace.They know Murk is going to stab them in the back but they have to support her for now.Not their call to say who deserves to be the R representative.

Posted by: steevy at August 27, 2010 11:32 AM (mjyiQ)

56 Yeah with this great GDP number this morning the stock market is up over 100 points. Yeah, the stock market that's where I would put my money .../s

Posted by: Donna at August 27, 2010 11:34 AM (A77nn)

57 Remember the ballots are not ALL Republican.

I would suspect that Miller will win the absentee ballots. He had the grass root organization, which usually stress absentee balloting.

Lisa is toast.

Posted by: Kemp at August 27, 2010 11:35 AM (vSiVD)

58 NRSC is playing with fire. If they pull a Franken here and find some votes and Miller loses, wow. NRSC does not care about conservatism. They actively support PRO ABORTION PORK LOVERS.

Posted by: Dan at August 27, 2010 11:37 AM (1jzSs)

59 Take it in the victim hole Miller!

Posted by: Murkowski, dailing Franken's number at August 27, 2010 11:39 AM (UrYD2)

60 Funny thing is, just yesterday I read somewhere that there were only something like 200 or so uncounted ballots, and Murky was more than 200 behind.

20,000 uncounted primary ballots in state with an entire population of only 698,473?

Posted by: CoolCzech at August 27, 2010 11:40 AM (tJjm/)

61 The ruling class protects its own.

After all, we can't have bitter, clinging commoners rubbing shoulders with the likes of John F'n Kerry or Juan McCain, now can we?

And even worse, Lisa inherited that seat from her daddy. It's a family heirloom! Who does this Miller person think he is?

Posted by: tsj017 at August 27, 2010 11:40 AM (4YUWF)

62 Ya know, if it wasn't the Republican Party, one might say, "They are extending the counting to keep Murky from turning Libertarian"

But we know who we are dealing - the GOP.

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at August 27, 2010 11:40 AM (zqzYV)

63 60
I'd rather see Miller win, but if it's The Murk, she is now so tainted by her own side that her chances of winning against the Dem are being torpedoed.

She torpedoed her own ship when she did not rule out running on a third party.

Posted by: polynikes at August 27, 2010 11:38 AM (m2CN7)

RINOs typically prefer that a Democrat win if they personally can't. Just look at Gov. Charlie "Orange Man" Crist...

Posted by: CoolCzech at August 27, 2010 11:41 AM (tJjm/)

64 Ya know, this gives me a great idea!

Posted by: Arlen Spector (former R-Senator and contributor to the NRSC) at August 27, 2010 11:41 AM (EW49d)

65 I'd rather see Miller win, but if it's The Murk, she is now so tainted by her own side that her chances of winning against the Dem are being torpedoed.

Nice move, people.

Drew is calling this one correctly.

I can't make sense of that. The election was very close, and Murky is calling in chips from DC to get help in finding enough votes, or so it seems to everyone on the outside. How does that translate into "Well, I was gonna vote R in the actual Senatorial race but the Republicans are closely split, so I'll vote Demotard." Huh? By your estimate if the NRSC stayed out of this then the Republican would get broader support in the general? This makes no sense. The only one here who appears, fairly or not, to be pulling strings is Murky. She called in the NRSC, as we discovered with great argument yesterday. Is Miller supposed to shut up and say nothing? Did Murky? If you want to blame anything blame a close election that requires the current controversial measures. But how a close election in a primary translates into a Dem win is, uh, murky at best. Again, if the idea is two polarized sides inside the Repub voting bloc will fracture and stay home on November, then you are blaming the incidence of a close vote in the first place, which has exactly nothing to do with any subsequent response to it.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 27, 2010 11:43 AM (AZGON)

66 The republicans criticized the dems for the whole "franken incident" and now, no matter what they say, people are thinking that monkey business is going on.....so she might be on the ballot but bet the dem wins...

people aren't seeing party affiliation as the plus that two political parties think it is...

they just see that she was there and voted against the will of the people....period...

the dems new strategy, taking advantage of the stupidity of republicans seems to be working

Posted by: curious at August 27, 2010 11:44 AM (p302b)

67 The lead is 1668 votes out of 100,000 cast. On election night 2000 in Florida, Bush's lead was roughly 1,400 out of 5,000,000. In other words, the pool of potential votes in AK is about 100 times smaller.
Moreover, the current governor in AK was appointed by Palin.
I would feel pretty confident this lead will hold absent some news to the contrary on Monday.

Posted by: Scoob at August 27, 2010 11:44 AM (T7+JL)

68 Lisa has already approached the Alaska Libertarian Party. In
exchange for putting her on the Libertarian ticket in November,
Murk will hand the Libertarians a chunk of her +$1 million
war chest.

So why would the NRSC extend a helping hand to this scum Senator?

Posted by: pam at August 27, 2010 11:44 AM (h8R9p)

69 This is not about "lisa".....this is totally about Sarah Palin....

They already put out the "sarah palin endorsed miller and she was trounced stories" now they have to make them come true....

Posted by: curious at August 27, 2010 11:45 AM (p302b)

70 Maybe the libertarian candidate should go ahead and step down and if Murkowski
steals the nomination Miller can run on that ticket. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Posted by: Wheeler at August 27, 2010 11:47 AM (NlmAy)

71 One thing to be considered is that Alaska is a different place. There's been commentary about how 15 days is a long time to wait for getting mail -- but it's quite reasonable that there would be places there that only get one flight/boat per week. There are folks out on fishing boats that might not make it to port every week. Some of the quirky stuff that's going on may be entirely justifiable.

Posted by: cthulhu at August 27, 2010 11:47 AM (/0IOT)

72 So what it really comes down to - Who appointed the Attorney General?

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at August 27, 2010 11:49 AM (zqzYV)

73 Posted by: pam at August 27, 2010 11:44 AM (h8R9p)

You know the quickest way to get her to run 3rd party?

Piss her off and make her feel like she's been thrown overboard.

If you think you have a reasonable expectation of someone's help and they say, 'sorry, you're on your own, we've found someone we like better', you're going to go out of your way to screw them.

Is pissing Murkowski off the way to go at this point? Why not let the process play out and if she loses fair and square, try and talk her in to staying in the fold?

Almost every incumbent who gets bounced in a primary (especially when they are blindsided like this) thinks about a 3rd party/indy run. Usually cooler heads prevail.

Why exactly you think getting her angrier is the way to go, I don't understand.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 11:50 AM (X/Lqh)

74 This is why Beck keeps saying there is no difference between republicans and dems....right here, this....she doesn't care if she damages the party and makes people suspect all republcians all she cares about is holding onto her precious power....

Posted by: curious at August 27, 2010 11:51 AM (p302b)

75 Why do they support a person talking about third party? It's all about the pork.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at August 27, 2010 11:51 AM (bAL0J)

76 From Wikipedia:

Daniel S. Sullivan is the current Attorney Genera of Alaska. Sullivan was appointed to his current office by then-Governor Sarah Palin in June 2009.

Not that I would expect that to matter.

Posted by: Bomber at August 27, 2010 11:51 AM (qzoN5)

77 I know my comments are predictable, stupid, short, etc.
I need help determining who is a more predictable poster, Drew or Gabe.
Drew?

Posted by: Pelvis at August 27, 2010 11:52 AM (LlaBi)

78 I wish my daddy could have given me my seat. I like presents.

Posted by: Lindsay Graham at August 27, 2010 11:54 AM (AZGON)

79 I need help determining who is a more predictable poster, Drew or Gabe.

I going with the Head Ewok.

Posted by: Kemp at August 27, 2010 11:55 AM (vSiVD)

80 Hmmmm! 9,000 ballots being questioned. Was ACORN involved in voter registration drives for this election?

Posted by: alwyr at August 27, 2010 11:56 AM (w2++y)

81 Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 11:50 AM (X/Lqh)

So now we're held hostage by angry R's that lose primaries? Talk about petulant children....

Again, why does she have the expectation of NRSC's help?

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 11:57 AM (VuLos)

82 No matter what happens Lisa is tainted. Damaged goods. She has shown herself to be a career politician and nothing more. I'm still holding out for Miller. I think he'll pull through but the waiting sucks.

Posted by: Bosk at August 27, 2010 11:57 AM (pUO5u)

83 You know the quickest way to get her to run 3rd party?

Piss her off and make her feel like she's been thrown overboard.

True enough. It also may be the quickest way for her to lose the general.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 27, 2010 11:58 AM (AZGON)

84 So why would the NRSC extend a helping hand to this scum Senator?
Because that scrum Senator, once a week, picked up a phone and did the dirty little work of tapping big time donors to give money to the NRSC. The NRSC is not a self-funded entity. Each Republican Senator is expected to spend some time soliciting campaign cash. Even the ones not up for re-election. So, in the 2006 and 2008 campaign cycle, "scrum" Senator Lisa Murkowski dutifully trudge off to some phone bank, called the list of her donors, and asked that they contribute to the NRSC. That is why they are helping her. Because if they don't, then very few Senators are going to be inclined to make the effort. And that means less cash for the NRSC for places like Nevada, Illinois, Colorado, etc.
Yea, it be nice of institutional campaign organizations were impartial and stayed out of every primary fight. But, since they are, for the most part, not self-funded, that isn't very realistic.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 11:59 AM (OWjjx)

85 NRSC, stuck on stupid. Murkpigski wins, they look crooked. Miller wins, they look incompetent.

In any case, they have intruded to interfere with the process. Apparently Alaskans aren't smart enough to conduct their own elections without help from Washington, DC.

Posted by: Youreitherontheboatorofftheboat at August 27, 2010 12:00 PM (JhZEL)

86 of = if. Who put the i and o keys next to each other on the keyboard?

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:01 PM (OWjjx)

87 And even worse, Lisa inherited that seat from her daddy. It's a family heirloom! Who does this Miller person think he is?
No, um, ah, shit.

Posted by: zombie ted kennedy, senator (D-ecomposing; Hell) at August 27, 2010 12:01 PM (3phFo)

88 For any of the NRSC staffers trolling over here, consider the effect on fundraising if you eff around with this thing. I've already ceased donating to the NRSC, many others will do the same.

Posted by: Fresh Air at August 27, 2010 12:02 PM (mNG9h)

89 9,000? Out of less than 200,000 cast? Wow.

Posted by: Rocks at August 27, 2010 12:02 PM (Q1lie)

90 So now we're held hostage by angry R's that lose primaries?
Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 11:57 AM (VuLos)

You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that Murkowski has actually lost the primary yet.

Politics is business, not personal. Don't let your antipathy for Murkowski and other RINOs get in the way of getting what we all want...her out and not running 3rd party.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:03 PM (X/Lqh)

91 Time to eliminate absentee ballots for all but active duty military away from their homes.

I read somewhere that the voter pool in Alaska is around 400,000
people. Something is majorly wrong when 5% of the voters are
'absentee'.
Too many opportunities for fraud.

If you can't arrange your affairs so that you can get to the polling place on election day, then too bad.

Election day is set months in advance. Any travel that you decide to do rather than go to the polling station means that you value your vacation more than voting.

Sure, some people will lose out if they have an accident or major injury a day of two before election. I guess that I could see having a temporary polling place go once through each hospital to gather those.

Posted by: Mark E at August 27, 2010 12:07 PM (w5RwR)

92 There is no excuse for running on a third party ticket after losing your parties primary fair and square.

This is correct. However, once a candidate brings in outsiders while the issue is still in doubt, the entire "fair and square" concept is kaput.

Therein lies the danger.

Posted by: Youreitherontheboatorofftheboat at August 27, 2010 12:08 PM (JhZEL)

93 Now I don't feel so bad about trashing all of those dozens of mailers from the NRSC. If I had known that it was pretty much an incumbent protection racket, I would have trashed them with great delight. In the Internet age, it's so easy to find and support candidates directly rather than rely on the NRSC to take their cut then divvy-up your money between RINOS and conservatives.
"scuse my, I've got some warriors running for congress to support.

Posted by: Max Entropy at August 27, 2010 12:08 PM (la188)

94 Perhaps we can agree on this... If Alaskans voting in the general really want Murky back in the Senate, they will get her, provided the Murkowski/NRSC apologists accurately predict she will run 3rd party if she loses the primary.

If the best thing is to let the process "work out," as happened in Minnesota, the let it work out. Should that include a Murkowski victory in November, fine. Whether NRSC involvement is fair or not, it's happening. Since the Alaskan R voters are so split regardless of the post primary debacle, it merely devolves into the single question: If you're an Alaskan that voted in the R primary, will you send a Repub to the Senate in November or not? It will be either Miller or Murky.

I thought the NRSC was sent out there to "pat her on the head." Now certain people are saying the opposite of what they were previously, that it's their job to save her bacon.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 27, 2010 12:10 PM (AZGON)

95 It is inappropriate for the NRSC to spend money on a candidate who may not even be the Republican nominee and in fact may change parties to run against the Party's choice,” said Miller.
I agree with this observation.
Drew:
No one here says that Murkowski or her supporters should be antagonized. By the exact same token, the fact that she STILL has not ruled out the third party dodge, especially after the public reaction to Specter and Crist, is resonating far beyond this particular race. For her, right now, this is the most important foxhole in the world (because she's in it). Got that.
The NRSC is supposedly about something bigger. And if we are to understand what is going on in Murkowski's mind, we now have to be aware of what is going on the minds of Miller, his supporters, the Alaska voters in the general, and anyone who might consider donating to the RNC, NRSC et.al.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 27, 2010 12:10 PM (R2fpr)

96 Why not let the process play out and if she loses fair and square, try and talk her in to staying in the fold?
For some strange reason, someone going to "help" the candidate who is behind doesn't lead to thoughts of "fair and square".

Posted by: Mama AJ at August 27, 2010 12:10 PM (XdlcF)

97 Posted by: Mark E at August 27, 2010 12:07 PM (w5RwR)
On that, I agree. Never understood the thinking of America that the right to vote is so precious its worth spilling blood for.....but not interfering with my golf game so that I have to, actually, ya know, go somewhere and vote.
Actually, I always wondered how the absentee ballot process would work if, instead of the hacks employed at the county clerks office, you had to request an absentee ballot from 3 people who lost a spouse in the course of defending this country. Yes, I understand, your husband died in Iraq defending my right to vote, but gosh darn it, I am on vacation that week and, well, ya know....
Oh, and all the ideas for extending voting hours/days and Dick Durbin's stupid idea to vote over the weekend.....screw that.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:11 PM (OWjjx)

98 You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that Murkowski has actually lost the primary yet.

I assume you meant to say 'hasn't actually lost the primary yet.'

And no, I'm responding based on what she's indicated she'll do SHOULD she lose the primary. Or what she's threatening to do should the vote count not go her way. This threat came from her spokesperson a day or so after the primary. Who pissed her off then? Ah, right...the voters.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 12:11 PM (VuLos)

99 >> Again, why does she have the expectation of NRSC's help?

What Mallamutt said, because she's part of it, and raises money for it. Do people just not get this? It's a club for Republican Senators.
I don't give them money. Hell I thought it was something that they even agreed not to provide campaign funds to their incumbents in primaries.
The NRSC has to walk this tightrope, as mentioned yesterday, if she perceives them stabbing her in the back, after her like, you know, effort and shit on their behalf, she'll pitch a fit, switch to L, and give up this seat to the Dems.
If, and I say if, cause I don't know what they're doing, I just know most organizations have this "survival instinct", they'll hold her little hand, make nice about uncounted ballots, how to do a recount (but Lisa, you know that probably can't swing it, don't you?), and calm her the fuck down so she doesn't screw this thing up.
There are a lot of reasons to believe this is exactly what they're doing, and damned few reasons to think it's not.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:12 PM (WvXvd)

100 Honestly, I didn't see the lawyer as a huge deal, but this is the time that the NRSC should back off. It's a recount, in principle there isn't any "help" a campaign committee should be providing at this point.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 27, 2010 12:12 PM (T0NGe)

101 Posted by: polynikes at August 27, 2010 12:03 PM (m2CN7)

Let me know how your campaign to rework human nature turns out.

And the goal of getting her to go away if she loses (which is a fact not yet in evidence) is all business from our perspective. If she wants to rant, scream, shout, cry, call names, insult our mothers, whatever. We take it. It can be personal for her but for us (well, Miller) it has to be business. Whatever it takes to clear the field for him has to be done.

You can extract personal revenge on her later (though that's usually a bad idea) but right now, we need to be cold and business like.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:13 PM (X/Lqh)

102 Now, it's personal.

Posted by: Murkowskinator at August 27, 2010 12:13 PM (3phFo)

103 Not to be a downer but Drew is right here and also could we stop saying Murky lost like it's a done deal already? There really are votes still to be counted. There is no reason for Murky to concede here. Statistically I don't think she can pull off but her odds aren't lotto odds either. She very probably will lose minus Shenanigans but she hasn't lost yet. We can give the woman that.

As to the NRSC I don't see how they say no when she asks for help. But there are other incumbent senators and I don't think anyone would be surprised if they told the NSRC to pay Miller's fees, if there are any, out of fairness. It's good PR.

Posted by: Rocks at August 27, 2010 12:15 PM (Q1lie)

104 If you can't arrange your affairs so that you can get to the polling place on election day, then too bad.
In Alaska??

Posted by: Mama AJ at August 27, 2010 12:15 PM (XdlcF)

105 Sorry Drew, but if the NRSC's sole job is to keep career politicians entrenched in office then it needs to be abolished immediately. Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of a primary.

Oh, the people have a challenger to the incumbent. We'll just send millions of dollars and teams of lawyers to stop that. The peasants shall have no voice!

Watch for Murkowski to steal this election in 12 days. Voter fraud will put her over the top. Watch for open warfare between voters and the GOP. Watch for Dems to win. All thanks to the fucking corrupt NRSC and its career politician love. By the way, are they still funding Charlie Crist? I wouldn't be surprised.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 12:16 PM (WZFkG)

106 One other reason the NRSC goes up and does what ever it is doing (I don't know, you don't know and other than the people involved, no one knows) is that as of right now, the Republican caucus in the Senate consist of a grand total of 41.
You have already dumped Bennett in Utah. You may be dumping Murkowski in Alaska. Your only real power is the filibuster, which requires 40. Its a tight rope to keep all 40 in line. If, as many of us expect, the Democrats get trounced this election, and they attempt to shove a bunch of crap down our throats, you may find yourself in a position of actually needing Murkowski.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:16 PM (OWjjx)

107 >> incumbents in primaries
contested

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:19 PM (WvXvd)

108 Wait, I am supposed to love Team GOP and never ever ever vote third party because the Dems could win. I should also only vote for R incumbents or they could become infuriated at their loss and run third party and that would elect a Dem. And, I should support whatever R candidate gets selected in murky backroom deals because, again, Dem, traitor, etc.

Sign me up!

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:21 PM (zKypm)

109 If, and I say if, cause I don't know what they're doing, I just know most organizations have this "survival instinct", they'll hold her little hand, make nice about uncounted ballots, how to do a recount (but Lisa, you know that probably can't swing it, don't you?), and calm her the fuck down so she doesn't screw this thing up.

I completely acknowledge the truth of this. However let's not kid ourselves. If by "calm her down so she doesn't screw this up" means "The NRSC is determined to keep her from running 3rd party" you have essentially admitted the NRSC is not there to calm her down but to help her win by any means available because the alternative is to have her run as an independent. Your very argument presupposes that she can hold the NRSC hostage to her demands for support. If their one non-negotiable point is to prevent Murky going 3rd party, then it follows logically that their efforts can only be directed to helping her win the primary. Either the NRSC is telling her "No, dear" or "Yes, Boss." They cannot do both. Which is fine.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 27, 2010 12:21 PM (AZGON)

110 Yeah, Team R is totally ready to lead the country! They won't disappoint us at all. I can't wait for whatever 2012 brings!

/me hangs head and weeps

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:22 PM (zKypm)

111 Posted by: Blue Hen at August 27, 2010 12:10 PM (R2fpr)

Again it's personal v. business.

On a personal level it's offensive that she's exploring 3rd party. On a business level it doesn't matter.

Business:
Fine Lisa, go explore, it'll make you feel better. When you calm down let's talk again and explain why 3rd party is a bad idea for you and what you believe in. In the meantime, we are doing everything for you we can and are supposed to do for you.

Personal:
We're insulted you are thinking about 3rd party. Fine, fuck you! Go do it! Bitch!

Which is more likely to get her go quietly and help Miller win?

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:23 PM (X/Lqh)

112 If Miller had lost and decided to run third party, the beltway would be howling about how he is dividing the party and being destructive etc. Now I know the votes are still being counted and Murk has not decided to run third party YET, but if she does, will there be the same level of vitriol directed at her by the beltway GOP as would have been for Miller? NO WAY.

Posted by: Dan at August 27, 2010 12:24 PM (1jzSs)

113 Let me know how your campaign to rework human nature turns out.
Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:13 PM (X/Lqh)
Ace and Drew will tell everyone exactly what "human nature" is, and they'll make up shit and scream at anyone who doesn't agree. it's odd that "human nature", as per drew/ace includes fucking over your party and running as an independent when a primary is lost. If that were "human nature" one would imagine that it would happen as the result of most primaries ... but it doesn't. It only seems to happen with people that Drew and Ace were more likely to support.
This site is going off the deep end on this issue. Devoid of reason and obnoxious andnastyto everyone who disagrees with their divinely inspired words of truth. And the funny part is, that while, say, ace is throwing a temper tantrum and accusing everyone of stuff that only exists in his head, he drives away more people.
Nice, guys. Really.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (5TNVe)

114 Sorry Drew, but if the NRSC's sole job is to keep career politicians
entrenched in office then it needs to be abolished immediately.
Otherwise, what the fuck is the point of a primary.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 12:16 PM (WZFkG)

Read Mallamutt at 86.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (X/Lqh)

115 Because after all, it's the NRSC's job to choose which Republican is more worthy, the voters are idiots after all.
They still promised not to spend money in contested primaries yet here we are.
They're breaking their promise to stick their finger in our eyes and yet, we are the ones who have to worry about pissing off a career politician?
Methinks the GOP needs a new base. One that understands that their political betters know what's best.

Posted by: Veeshir at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (aFnZ8)

116 Dan@116 - of course not, because she's one of them. Who the hell is Miller? A nobody, that's who. And the proles voted for him, so doubleplusungood to you, sir!

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (zKypm)

117 Ella, not the argument we're having. We're actually pretty much all in favor of Miller winning this thing, the more conservative of the two, better candidate.
I don't think you're paying attention.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:27 PM (WvXvd)

118 F*k the NRSC, and f*k the RNC. if there's one thing we all should have learned is we don't need a bunch of clueless nitwits being our intermediaries. If there's another thing we've learned, is pretty much all (within the margin of error for "all" at least) of these inside the beltway doofuses are concerned first and foremost and lastmost with their own power, regardless of the (R) after their name. Every time some career insider dope like Gingrich tells us we have to support a Establishment Moronic Incumbent (R)or else, and then said moron loses a primary and( of course ) stabs the party in the back,we need to actually, you know, learn from that.
I learned this lesson years ago, back before the government managedto completely destroy the banking industry, I was making a very nice living, so I gave 2 grand to the RNC, who promptly took my money ( along with another $ 998,000 )and gave it to Lincoln F*king Chafee.
There's an oldsaying," Fool me once, you're dead to me forever "...(well, its an old saying in brooklyn, anyways. )
And with respect to Ace, we're not talking about giving up, or throwing up our hands or sitting an election out, its just a matter of realizing that the GOP establishment is about a tenth of short hair lesscorrupt and clueless than the democrats,andrealizing that we do have the power to create a new conservative party, even if we have to do itAlien style, by burrowing in and ripping out of the dead carcass of the current GOP.
The Miller thing has shown us what we should already know, polls dont matter, conventional wisdom doesnt matter,incumbency doesnt matter, just organize, give $ selectively and effectively, trust in Sarah, and we will win, red states, blue states,whatever.
Because the truth is,we are the source of hope. We are the agents of change.Wedon't need leaders because we don't need to be led.

Posted by: john aita at August 27, 2010 12:29 PM (/qYmU)

119 Because that scrum Senator, once a week, picked up a phone and did the
dirty little work of tapping big time donors to give money to the NRSC.

They've pissed Miller off royally. Think he'll be picking up any phones for them in the near future if he wins?

For every argument about how they need to 'soothe' Murkowski, they are getting him madder and madder.

He already went off on them meddling in the race.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 12:29 PM (FkKjr)

120 DrewM, you are right tactically. Hopfully Miller wins and they talk Lisa off her lunatic ledge. There is just something very fishy about us giving money to the NRSC and then they give it to Specter, Crist, and now this possibility (among others they have supported in primaries.) Its almost like there is a disturbing pattern here.

Posted by: Dan at August 27, 2010 12:29 PM (1jzSs)

121 Whic we don't want to do. because Lisa is just as likely to go squish as Liindsey as Arlen, as Charlie would be, she was actually entertaining the carbon tax, which Newsweek gave her an attaboy for, Miller is trying to shake up the system, they want to lie in the pig trough

Posted by: dr. lizardo at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (bz+co)

122 60 "I'd rather see Miller win, but if it's The Murk, she is now so
tainted by her own side that her chances of winning against the Dem are
being torpedoed."

Hey, let's keep in mind we're trying to flip the senate (need 10 seats) and now we're facing the scenario of losing this AK Republican senate seat, because if Murk wins: "she is now so
tainted by her own side that her chances of winning against the Dem are
being torpedoed."

Posted by: alwyr at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (w2++y)

123 Well, see, it's really all of YOUR faults for supporting Angle in Nevada and Paul in Kentucky and whoever beat Bennett in Utah. STUPID PROLES.

If you don't support your GOP incumbents unconditionally, how can you possibly hope to retake power in 2010? How can you expect them NOT to ram through more Obama legislation just to spite you? Don't you want the good Congressional years of 2002-2006 back?

I think Drew's right. You can't remake human nature. You are wrong to try to change the GOP. Wrong wrong wrong. You will all get what you deserve.

/s

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (zKypm)

124 So you grovel to her proposed threats. Is that your human nature? This
is not a cut your nose off tospite your face scenario.By allowing a
party candidate to use the threat of a third party run to garner
assistancesetsvery bad precedent.

Posted by: polynikes at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (m2CN7)

Who is groveling? She doesn't need to threaten anything to get assistance. She's entitled to it. She helped raise the money for those lawyers. Now you're telling her 'sorry, you can't have it'?

Again, do you want to make some sort of stand and show her who is boss or do you want to make this work?

How about one of you 'fuck her' geniuses tell me how kicking her to the curb today helps stop her from running a 3rd part candidacy.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (X/Lqh)

125 If the NRSC's role is to "support Republican senate candidates - both incumbent and prospective ones - to help them get elected" (paraphrased), shouldn't they also be advising Joe Miller, since he is the current front runner on the GOP ticket?

Posted by: Intrepid at August 27, 2010 12:31 PM (92zkk)

126 Um, Dave @ 122 did you read comment #116? He asked why people weren't howling about Murkowski's threat of a 3rd party run when people would be excoriating Miller if he had said the same thing.

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:31 PM (zKypm)

127 Even Miller knows he benefits if they can make nice to her and get her to reject the idea of a 3rd party.
It strikes me as odd, given the emotions running high on this issue, that we have some weird expectation that political foes who are running neck and neck should be some emotionless driven-by-logic-Spock-like-yo characters who meekly accept their fate when it isn't even decided yet.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:33 PM (WvXvd)

128 What Mallamutt said, because she's part of it, and raises money for
it. Do people just not get this? It's a club for Republican Senators.

IT'S A PRIMARY! Show me where, in the NRSC's mission statement (or
whatever you want to call it), they are expected to help the R
incumbent in a primary. As a matter of fact, Cornyn has specifically stated otherwise as noted above.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 12:33 PM (VuLos)

129 Her biggest problem here is that she's already shown herself to not be a stand-up person by threatening to take her marbles and go to the L party. She's shown herself to be for herself and herself alone, the party and the Alaskan voters be damned. I'm Lisa Murk, how dare people not vote for my privileged self, even though I've never done anything for myself my entire life. She's already inflicted the damage to herself and permanently lost, I suspect, lots of Miller votes if she ends up winning. How the heck can any self-respecting conservative, let alone Republican, pull the lever for this incompetent hack. If Miller wins, I can see most of the Murk voters, voting for him. If she somehow edges him out and it looks at all fishy, I don't see many of the Miller voters pulling the lever for her. They'll just skip that race and let the chips fall. I can't day I would blame them even if it costs control of the Senate.

Posted by: laddy at August 27, 2010 12:34 PM (f4e3N)

130 How about one of you 'fuck her' geniuses tell me how kicking her to the
curb today helps stop her from running a 3rd part candidacy.

Nothing is going to stop her from doing that if she wants to. The decision is totally hers, and she will operate in whatever she determines is her best interest.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 12:34 PM (FkKjr)

131 The important thing is that if (fingers crossed) Miller wins, the NRSC supports him.

Best case scenario - Grudgingly. With bad feelings on both sides.
Not a very good case at all.

Posted by: always right at August 27, 2010 12:35 PM (Wqfrr)

132 She doesn't need to threaten anything to get assistance. She's entitled to it. She helped raise the money for those lawyers. Now you're telling her 'sorry, you can't have it'?
Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (X/Lqh)
Interesting. Helping to raise money for a group now entritles that person to money from that group? So, if I help the RNC raise money, then I'm entitled to some of it.
Brilliant, Drew. Never mind what the actual mission of the NRSC should be. That doesn't matter. Drew knows that all incumbents must have their asses kissed if they are losing primaries, because human nature - as per Drew and Ace - says thatmost losers of primaries should be expected to cut from the party and just hitch onto a third party ballot in their seething "human nature". Yep ... So, appeasement is the call of the day from AoSHQ.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 27, 2010 12:35 PM (5TNVe)

133 They've pissed Miller off royally. Think he'll be picking up any phones for them in the near future if he wins?
Yea, I do.Because 6 years is along totime forecast the future, and in 6 years, he may be needing theNRSC to spend some cash his way to help out his re-election campaign.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:35 PM (OWjjx)

134 @135 in the last sentence: day = say

Posted by: laddy at August 27, 2010 12:35 PM (f4e3N)

135 >> Um, Dave @ 122 did you read comment #116?

Well not yet, I was responding to you. As far as I can tell, a shitload of people are howling about Murk's "threat" (which hasn't materialized yetm insofar as the race isn't decided)to go 3rd party, so I don't get your point.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:36 PM (WvXvd)

136 @133, the fear is that it isn't decided yet because they are going to cheat. The number of questionable ballots is simply too high.

"Torpedoing" Murkowski basically comes down to not voting for her. She's the one calling in the NRSC to cover her tail (when they keep trying to convince me on the phone they don't take sides in primaries, ONLY general elections). She's the one threatening to flip to a 3rd party solely to punish Miller. She's the one agitating for a win regardless of the actual vote tally. Notcing all of that is "torpedoing" her?

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:36 PM (zKypm)

137 tries to pull an Al Franken,

This should DEFINITELY become part of the language.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at August 27, 2010 12:37 PM (eNxMU)

138 >> Cornyn has specifically stated otherwise as noted above.
So did I, in the verynext paragraph.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:37 PM (WvXvd)

139 @141, my point is that I was responding to #116. So, I wasn't tilting at windmills; I actually was taking part in the conversation.

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:37 PM (zKypm)

140 The important part of all of this is that my dad, who works on a mine in the Arctic Circle, forgot to request his absentee ballot and didn't vote for Miller.

I am going to chide him.

Posted by: Ella at August 27, 2010 12:39 PM (zKypm)

141 Again it's personal v. business.On a personal level it's offensive that she's exploring 3rd party. On a business level it doesn't matter. Business:Fine Lisa, go explore, it'll make you feel better. When you calm down let's talk again and explain why 3rd party is a bad idea for you and what you believe in. In the meantime, we are doing everything for you we can and are supposed to do for you.
or
We understand what you've done and what you wanted to do. We understand that you've asked us here to help you do that, as is your right. And at the exact same time you are, by your pandering to the Libertarian party, undermining all of that and us. Who else was this aimed at but us? The election board? Do you think that your threat will scare off Miller? Or did you think that we would come up here and dispatch him for you? We can help you explore options, and make sure that whoever wins the primary gets launched toward November. Whoever doesn't gets placed ready for knocking off whatisface in four years.That 'We' must include you and Miller. Who is not included: The Libertarian party.Personal:We're insulted you are thinking about 3rd party. Fine, fuck you! Go do it! Bitch!
or
this was never an option, at least not to me.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 27, 2010 12:40 PM (R2fpr)

142 #145, ok, that's fair, I should have noted I was replying to your #112 and #114.

I still think people are wigging out needlessly, but perhaps it is in facta need they have, and I should just shut up and let them have it.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 12:40 PM (WvXvd)

143 Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 12:26 PM (X/Lqh)

Oh Drew, she begged donors for funds. I guess it's perfectly okay for the NRSC to steal the fucking election. And lets not bullshit each other on this point either. How is Miller, or any other challenger, supposed to combat the money and lawyers coming in? Who gives a fuck how much money Murkowksi got for sucking donor cock. It doesn't make it acceptable in any way for the NRSC to influence primaries. I don't care if it's one of their duties. I don't care if its only organizational goal. Its keeping crooked career politicians in office against the will of the people.

Ands you seem so fucking terrified of Murkowksi running 3rd party. Oh I guess its so much better to sit on our hands, lightly praise the NRSC for fucking us over (It's their job man), allow Murkowski to steal the election and become so tainted she couldn't win for dog catcher let alone Senator. Yeah, that sounds much better than her running on the libertarian ticket.

Lets all be clear on what's happening: Murkowksi is tainted irrevocably. With the nod toward as third party run and bringing in the NRSC she is dead as a candidate. And the NRSC has shown that despite all its lies to the contrary it will fuck the voters over and influence elections. It will pick and choose winners to keep corrupt fucktards in power and us out. And if the millions they send in aren't enough to thwart the will of the people, well just send in an army of lawyers to really fuck us.

Any group even remotely tied to the GOP, which the NRSC is, should stay clear of a primary this close. It's playing kingmaker and making primaries a farce. Especially since we know all the congress critters they fuck us over to keep in office all turn democrat or 3rd party when they do lose.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 12:42 PM (WZFkG)

144 Damn -- Allahpundit just alphaed Drew and Gabe:

If, as seems clear, the goal of the Committee is to defeat Democrats,
why they should have any preference in a primary â€” especially one where
two Republicans are separated by one percent â€” is beyond me. Gabe
counters that, as a sitting senator, Murkowskiâ€™s partly responsible for
raising money for the NRSC and therefore should be able to call on its
resources, but again, thatâ€™s not what the Committee is supposed to be
for. If incumbents want to start a National Incumbent Committee and
raise money for themselves that way, fine; as it is, fundraising on the
NRSCâ€™s behalf is ostensibly done for all Republican candidates in the
name of the betterment of the party

8/27/2010

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 27, 2010 12:43 PM (3WdEX)

145 Helping to raise money for a group now entritles that person to money from that group? So, if I help the RNC raise money, then I'm entitled to some of it.
That is kind of how it works. Otherwise, why am I gonna take time out of my day to raise money for you........cause I like you? I can spend that time raising my own money. For better or for worse, money is the mother milk of politics......and a sitting Senator or Congressperson is one of the best ways to get a donor to write a check.
And that money is going to be used in places like Nevada, Colorado, California, etc.
Again, it would be great if institutional bodies were impartial....they aren't.
And again, we have no idea what the NRSC and Murkowski are talking about.
And again, we do not know, yet,who won. I think the math makes it hard for Murkowski to win.
But, if that is too painful of a reality then I am sorry. Get elected, change the system .
Or, you could just accept the Democrats offer of a publicly funded election system......then the RNSC and RCCC would just cease to exist and your problems here would be solved!
(Please note - I am not in favor of publicly funded elections. I just throw that out as a solution to your angst - cause I am a giver).

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:44 PM (OWjjx)

146 Hahaha....and then Ace does a post saying exactly what most commenters here are saying. Ya can get whiplash in this place.

Posted by: Tami at August 27, 2010 12:44 PM (VuLos)

147 Yea, I do.Because 6 years is along totime forecast the future, and in 6
years, he may be needing theNRSC to spend some cash his way to help
out his re-election campaign.

I'll have to disagree. Miller seems pretty upset about this.

One thing to bear in mind is that Murkowski may have helped them raise money, but it wasn't her money. When she got on the phone with donors, I'm pretty sure she didn't say, "this money will go to help incumbent senators in a Republican primary." She probably said it would go to building a majority or protecting Republicans in vulnerable districts.

I imagine the NRSC donors out there are a little pissed off about their money being spent like this.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 12:47 PM (FkKjr)

148 Murkowski pullin' a franken. That's my gal.

Posted by: John "Above it all" Cornyn at August 27, 2010 12:47 PM (JhZEL)

149 Who will be one of the Senators from Alaska during the lame duck session? Ya know, the 60th vote to overcome a filibuster and irrelevent shit like that?
Yeah, let's salt the wound of a probable defeat in the primary. (Vic already outlined how the absentee ballots probably favor Miller.)

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 27, 2010 12:47 PM (P9zpD)

150 To restate what I noted above, but I saw some people maintaining that she making threats.

Yes, she most certainly did level a threat. That being, run as a third party candidate.
Atwhom was it aimed? Not: Miller (he's there),or the people on the election board.
Possible targets: Alaska Republican party, national Republican party, NRSC.

Will she carry this threat out? Who the Heck knows?

Does she have a lot riding on the outcome of this? Sure does. People here have already noted the importace of senority. And she has seen the travails of Specter and Bennett. Who would know better what the implications are?
But the fact remains that she did threaten people once the balance of the voting became known.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 27, 2010 12:50 PM (R2fpr)

151 One thing that has been made clear in this whole shabang: John Cornyn has done an awful job as head of the NRSC. His (and their) poor decisions (Crist, Specter etc) has so deeply damaged the trust of grassroots GOPers that the initial reaction is jaded, at best.

The rules in the NRSC/NRCC should be that if you are in a closely contested primary, and if it appears you are going to lose to your opponent, and IF you threaten a 3rd party candidacy - you get no help from us. Period. No matter how much money you helped raise.

Posted by: Intrepid at August 27, 2010 12:51 PM (92zkk)

152 Who will be one of the Senators from Alaska during the lame duck
session? Ya know, the 60th vote to overcome a filibuster and irrelevent
shit like that?

Maybe it will be Arlen Specter, who, using the same logic, should be pissed at the Democrats.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 12:52 PM (FkKjr)

153 That is kind of how it works. Otherwise, why am I gonna take time out of my day to raise money for you........cause I like you?
Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:44 PM (OWjjx)
Because you think that I (in the hypothetical) am good for the country and the party and because I represent something you believe in.
But, regardless of whether you and I disagree as to why one raises funds for another, it is the idea that someone is ENTITLED to funds and help, just because they raised a bit of the funds, that is the problem. You might think it appropriate to expect such help (I don't) but it certainly is not an entitlement of fund raising.
People raise funds for people and organizations that could never spend those funds on them. There is no entitlement between raising money and being on the receiving end of expenditures of that organization.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 27, 2010 12:54 PM (5TNVe)

154 I'll have to disagree. Miller seems pretty upset about this.
Hmmm.....ever get pissed off at someone and still hold the grudge 6 years later. Especially when that person can help you? Also remember, there is a reason they call the Senate the most exclusive club in the world. It is. And part of the club includes certain "perks" such as committee assignments. Miller is probably going to want Energy when he is elected. But, lets assume you are right and he goes to Washington and gives McConnell and Coryn and everyone else the big F.U. "I'm not calling anybody for you a-holes". What will the caucus do: Yea, Miller, you want Energy - uh, no. Here, have fun on the Standing Sub Committee on Guam.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:54 PM (OWjjx)

155 "And that money is going to be used in places like Nevada, Colorado, California, etc" (and, and, oh, yeah, Alaska to help my sweet Lisakow.)

She's one of us. This Miller guy is scary.

Posted by: John at August 27, 2010 12:55 PM (JhZEL)

156 People raise funds for people and organizations that could never spend those funds on them. There is no entitlement between raising money and being on the receiving end of expenditures of that organization.
Your career in politics will be short. I raise money for you for a joint effort (and the RNSC is a joint effort - gaining a Republican majority) and when I need it, you say no. O.K., so I am the one giving all the effort, doing all the work and what do I get out of it....zip.
Good luck to that one staffer (and that is what it would go down to,1) calling Aunt Pearl for 20 bucks so the RNSC can make enough cash to pay that poor guy his salary that week. Cause, bluntly, if I am a Senator and I see you stiff another one, I ain't picking up the phone It becomes every person for themselves. Again, it would be nice if institutional organization were impartial.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:59 PM (OWjjx)

157 You are full of shit, DrewM. The NSRC should stay the fuck away from that primary. Even for their own good. I would NEVER give one fucking dime to them ever again if they pull an Al Franken to get Murkowski back in. In fact, I might go third party all the way. Fuck them to Fuckland.

Posted by: Randall Hoven at August 27, 2010 01:04 PM (I4dSA)

158 Very easily. They tell her that before they
provide assistance, she needs to publically state that she will abide by
the election results and not seek a third party candidacy. If she
says, no, they say no.

Posted by: polynikes at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (m2CN7)

Very easily? Listen isn't just about her raising money she is also a sitting Senator so she's their boss and constituent just like every other Senator.The Chairman of the NRSC is elected every two years by the Republican
Senate caucus. Members of the caucus are appointed by the Senate
Republican Conference Committee.
Unless she is asking them to do something outside their mandate or illegal they don't have a lot of choice. She owes no promises or explanations for asking for something she is entitled to.

Posted by: Rocks at August 27, 2010 01:07 PM (Q1lie)

159 Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 12:59 PM (OWjjx)
Look, I don't think that GOP primaries should be like general elections against dems. GOP candidates should not be suing anyone over counting or anything of the sort. If we get down to that point with our candidates, then you might as well bag it. If GOP candidates cannot just let the votes be counted, maybe request a simple recount if it's very close, and then accept the voice of the GOP voters, then we are in far worse shape than ... who knows.
We need to lawyer up in general elections because the dems are despicable, lying scumbag cheaters. We should NOT have GOP candidates needing to lawyer up for primary counts, or recounts. That is a total waste of time and effort and says something really bad about those candidates that do this.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 27, 2010 01:08 PM (5TNVe)

160 Yea, Miller, you want Energy - uh, no. Here, have fun on the Standing Sub Committee on Guam.

He said the NRSC were trying to help Murkowski "pull an Al Franken." I'm not sure how he could pimp the NRSC to donors after saying that. I think he's crossed the Rubicon.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 01:09 PM (FkKjr)

161 I guess it's perfectly okay for the NRSC to steal the fucking election.
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 12:42 PM (WZFkG)

And that's where I stopped reading.

What in the world has the NRSC done that constitutes trying "to steal the fucking election"?

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:10 PM (X/Lqh)

162 Posted by: alwyr at August 27, 2010 12:30 PM (w2++y)
If Murk wins she will be the Senator. No way in hell a Dem will take the seat.

Posted by: Obummer at August 27, 2010 01:12 PM (pUO5u)

163 Polynikes, that's a fair point. I'd ask for one step further, she pledges now in a way she can't break it like Crist did, she won't run 3P or they kick her to the curb.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 01:23 PM (Wh0W+)

164 also, shit, the things that happen when I go eat lunch

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2010 01:23 PM (Wh0W+)

165 Good luck to that one staffer (and that is what it would go down to,1)
calling Aunt Pearl for 20 bucks so the RNSC can make enough cash to pay
that poor guy his salary that week.

I think Aunt Pearl is about all they will have left for donors after this fiasco. Who wants to donate their money so a Republican incumbent can win in a primary?

The NRSC has handled this badly. Instead of dispatching a lawyer discreetly at Murkowski's request, they announced their goal was to 'protect incumbents' and sent the lawyer up publicly. The reaction of the base is predictable, especially after Charlie Crist and Alren Specter.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2010 01:24 PM (FkKjr)

166 What in the world has the NRSC done that constitutes trying "to steal the fucking election"?

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:10 PM (X/Lqh)

I could point to Crist, or the money and lawyers they're sending to Murkowski but in the end they shouldn't have any role in the primaries. Once they do, not only are they violating their own stated agenda, but also picking winners and losers. When you keep career politicians in and any challenger out yes that's "stealing a fucking election". NRSC should stay away from primaries completely. The minute they support one candidate over another they're corrupting the primary and the will of the people.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 01:29 PM (WZFkG)

167 Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 01:29 PM (WZFkG)

These committees have been getting involved in primaries going on close to forever. We can debate the merits (I think they should stay out of open primaries like in FL) but that doesn't change the reality.

It's not like this is something that was just invented as a "Save Lisa Rescue Mission".

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:40 PM (X/Lqh)

168 I don't understand why people are suspicious about a lot of absentee voters in Alaska. My bil lives and works there. A lot of the jobs have you away from your home for extended periods of time. He works 4 weeks away from home, then comes to his home for 4 weeks. It's easiest to set up your voting preferences as absentee.

Posted by: pajama momma at August 27, 2010 01:47 PM (t777E)

169 Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:40 PM (X/Lqh)

Oh, it's been going on forever so its just accepted corruption. Who cares if its fucked up - it's a reality. So is genocide or herpes. That doesn't mean we have to approve. Silence is consent. And the fact that they're a "save the incumbent" organization means that, while it wasn't invented yesterday, it is a "save lisa rescue mission."

The NRSC is attempting to steal this election.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 01:48 PM (WZFkG)

170 The NRSC is attempting to steal this election.
Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 01:48 PM (WZFkG)

And with that bit of hyper-emotionalism....I'm off for the weekend. Enjoy yours.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:50 PM (X/Lqh)

171 Posted by: DrewM. at August 27, 2010 01:50 PM (X/Lqh)

Fact not emotions. Have fun on your weekend.

The NRSC is attempting to steal this election.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at August 27, 2010 01:58 PM (WZFkG)

172 I've seen this movie before. It does not end well.

Posted by: chuck in st paul at August 27, 2010 02:02 PM (adr25)

173 It seems to me the NRSC really shouldn't be there unless this was an election between a repub and a dem. It apears as if they are working to keep the status quo and nothing more.

Posted by: Bosk at August 27, 2010 02:03 PM (pUO5u)

174 The reaction of the base is predictable, especially after Charlie Crist and Alren Specter.
I understand (and agree) with Crist. I am, somehow, at a lose how the RNSC is to blame or did something wrong with Specter. Specter did what Specter always does....looked out for himself. This is the kind of broad brush approach that we all cringe about with accusations from the Left about the Tea Party.
So.....what did the RNSC do for Specter. If the RNSC gave Specter cash after he left...then yea, they are idiots. But I have not seen that. Specter was a product of Specter.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 02:11 PM (OWjjx)

175 Bevel and ChicagoJedi: If you can develop a plan where the RNSC can raise money (at the same levels they are now) without the use of incumbents, then fine, I suspect they will be more than happy to stay out of primaries involving an incumbent. Otherwise, I think your choices are two-fold: 1) either get rid of the RNSC (and lose significant finacial support of Republican candidates) or 2) frit your teeth and accept it. Or 3) public financing
I don't disagree with your theory - I just have a hard time getting from theory to reality.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 02:25 PM (OWjjx)

176 If it's just business, the NRSC should realize the Senators aren't their customers. Senators are their salesmen. Donors/voters are their customers.

Posted by: Heorot at August 27, 2010 02:26 PM (Nq/UF)

177 The fashion which is creating a mindless 'conspiracy' over the NRSC, is rather tiresome. It makes Miller and the others look weak, and rather delusional like the Rand Paul offering. Does he have something to hide?

This is standard procedure, and it seems the emotive, reactionary fashion - embracing the anti-GOP sophistry, has gone way over the top yet again. Cheap populism and anti-Establishment hoopla, lost in a realm of fashion, which is hardly objective or even Conservative.

Again, the fiasco is related the realm of the Palin Franchise, and why don't we see sound efforts, expression which grows the cause, builds a movement, instead of enabling divisions and juvenile resentment?

Posted by: Brooklyn at August 27, 2010 02:38 PM (Q12g3)

178 Did anyone call DrewM a RINO yet?

Posted by: Y-not at August 27, 2010 02:40 PM (4/eCJ)

179 Specter issued the same type of threats to leave the party. The party attempted to appease him by campaigning for him and having Bush endorse him. Fool me once shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. fool me three times, shame is not the word I would use.
And you understand that the party supported him in 2004. But he left in 2009. Sorry, my crystal ball doesn't see 5 years into the future. Again, the Specter thing is Specter, not the RNSC. If your crystal ball can see 5 years into the future, let me know who is gonna win the Super Bowl so I can make some cash.

Posted by: Mallamutt at August 27, 2010 02:51 PM (OWjjx)

180 Absentee voting should be like getting out of jury duty: you need a damn good reason or no dice. You're in the military? Yes. You're overseas? Yes. You want to vote early and often? No.

Posted by: Miss Iowa at August 27, 2010 03:21 PM (J3jFV)

181 Did anyone call DrewM a RINO yet?

Well yeah. Ace pretty much did a blog posting or two above.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at August 27, 2010 05:03 PM (PMGbu)

182 The best thing would be to purge biatches like McCain, Murkowski, Grahamnesty and the rest. Surely, they've stepped off the boat too many times in essential ways. There is a vast difference between a difference of opinion and actual, active mutiny. Notice what happens to them at that point: they become Dem. Commies, and instantly the Dem. Commies move closer to us and farther from Obama, Castro, Chavez, Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and all their beloved demigods.

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