Confederate Yankee
March 22, 2010
Standing in the Fallout
Where do we go from here?
That was the question on the minds of Americans this morning as they awoke to find that Democrats have overridden overwhelming public opposition and forced through a massive entitlement program for the first time in our nation's history, purely along partisan lines.
Obamacare passed not because it reforms the health care system and reduces costs—it will create trillions in debt—but because of backroom deals, bribery, arm-twisting, deceptive accounting schemes, and outright lies from the majority party.
The select few who think they will benefit from this affront to liberty are giddy this morning with the prospect of what has transpired overnight. Most Americans however, awoke to a feeling of dread.
They know entitlement programs
always cost far more than Democrats claim. They know that forcing employers to provide health care for all of their workers means that these employers are forced into the uncomfortable position of being bullied into providing health care they can't afford and watching their company's decline, or of letting go valued employees in the worst of times.
The first casualties of Obamacare are already rolling in. A commenter at
WRAL lamented that the small business where his wife was employed was forced into firing 35 of their 60 part-time employees this morning because they would not be able to afford their health care. His wife was one of those let go. There will be tens, if not hundreds of thousands more that will lose their jobs. The economy will suffer as a result.
And Democrats are quietly pleased, because more will become dependent on the nanny state they would create and lord over.
America is angry. Americans feel betrayed. And yet the question remains.
Where do we go from here?
Some are calling for the armed revolt against this encroaching tyranny. It was for this specific reason, after all, that our Founders made sure Americans would not be denied the use of arms.
Some misguided souls seem to already be
responding to this affront to liberty with violence. I fail to find the usefulness or utility of such symbolic and largely impotent acts. This sort of petty vandalism is not what the Founders sought to protect.
They sought to protect our right to replace—yes, overthow—would-be tyrants and rouges that history has taught us
always eventually arrive to usurp power and run roughshod over the rights of the people.
As we have been told countless times by philosophers and statesmen, tyranny is always seeking power and it comes in many guises. Sometimes sunlight is enough to dissuade those who would enslave others. In other instances, the mechanisms of justice can undo such wrongs. Thankfully, the final mechanism our founders instill to protect us from tyranny has not had to be used since an
isolated event 64 years ago.
We live in a nation full of freshly-experienced combat veterans and graying patriots alike that still remember their oaths to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The taste of liberty is much sweeter for them, having been to parts of the world where such things cannot be taken for granted. Pray that we are not required to call upon their service in a struggle against our own countrymen. God protect us all if we are forced to such extremes by a power-mad clique intent on transforming citizens into dependent subjects.
I have some hope that the courts will respond favorably to the
many states suing to eradicate this unconstitutional scheme, or that November's elections will destroy the Democratic majority and lay the ground for a full repeal of a bad law designed purely for one party's political gain.
The thought of the morally-required alternative is almost too much to bear.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:31 AM
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1
We need the home addresses of our congressmen.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 11:40 AM (jHK8i)
2
This is one graying patriot that is ready
Posted by: ron at March 22, 2010 11:58 AM (jO/j4)
3
The line has been crossed. All we wait for now is the enforcement. We will not be the first to start the unthinkable because most of us have see this in some form before. So if there is still time and if you think there is something that has not been tried please do your best. Butfor me, I am tiered of them spitting in my face and refusing to listen. I have my doughts that we will see another election. My guess is that we will see immigration reform next and anything else they canram in. Somewhere is the process something will trigger this dance...
Posted by: s4f at March 22, 2010 12:38 PM (u0FmQ)
4
There are several steps to be taken before armed rebellion is necessary.
1. Suits to block this Obamanation.
2. Elections in November and in 2012.
3. A Constitutional Convention.
The only time to consider armed rebellion is when it appears a Constitutional Convention will fail.
Of course, if you live in Texas as I do, seccession is at least a 4th option to wistfully consider short of armed rebellion.
Just buy your weapons before 2014 because it's going to take at least that long to sort out the non violent options.
Posted by: Riverrat at March 22, 2010 01:19 PM (RpON0)
5
Texas may just get an influx of like minded patriots as new residents. My once great state of Florida has become a cesspool of illegals and liberal Yankees. It is so discouraging.
Posted by: capt26thga at March 22, 2010 02:33 PM (5o/vx)
6
You people are very misguided. Those of you who entertain thoughts of an armed revolt have no idea what would lie in store for you. The response of the government at all levels would be swift and sure. You are foolish to even suggest such a thing.
This legislation is simply the beginning to bring America up to par with the rest of the civilized world. It ain't perfect but it's a start.
In a few years this legislation will be viewed by history as being as monumental as The New Deal, The Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, etc. Furthermore, history will also record the opponents of this legislation as nothing more than what they are, uninformed people being led around like cows with a ring in their nose.
Thirty years from now people in this country will be scratching their heads and asking, "Why in the world would some of those folks back in 2010 have been so opposed to all of the citizens of this great country having health care?. I suppose it was just the ignorance of the masses being played for fools by right wing whackos."
The other question they'll be asking in few decades will be, "Why did it take so long to ensure that all Americans have healthcare?!"
As for a constitutional convention, ain't gonna happen. There's good reason why there hasn't been one since the founding our our nation. Do you realize what would be at stake, even IF those who support a convention could meet the Constitutional requirements for a convention to become reality. It ain't gonna happen.
Finally, neither Texas nor any other state is going to secede from the Union. Secession simply isn't an option. It's a fantasy.
While this legislation leaves much to be desired, it is, at least, a start in the right direction. Thank God!!
Posted by: Dude at March 22, 2010 02:34 PM (5gxhz)
7
Dude,
You obviously don't understand. The legislation that you mentioned, even the Civil Rights Act, are all laws that conservatives feel have robed us of freedom. This particular bill just put finished on an effort by both parties to shred the Constitution. If it stands, that is it.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 02:53 PM (jHK8i)
8
The other thing about confrontation. Most Anglo-Saxons are not interested in blowing up planes or other stupid expressions. They know our weaknesses and that is the politicians. They are scared. Any effort will be aimed in that direction.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 02:59 PM (jHK8i)
9
overridden overwhelming public opposition?
Um Obama campaigned on HCR, he's done pretty much what he said he was going to do so if the public is opposed to it why'd they vote the Democrats in?
Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
Posted by: salvage at March 22, 2010 02:59 PM (Gk2oj)
10
It is unlikely that this country is going to last 30 more years in its present form. We are about to loose our Triple A bond rating for Treasury instruments. Enactment of a huge new entitlement, nmust be followed by a large increase in capital gainse, corporate and personal taxes.
The result is huge inflationary pressuer, increasing unemployement and a tightening of lending policies at all levels.
The so-called "civilized countries, who are even more broke than we are heading for the same implosion, but faster. Think what Grreece is going through right now. Their government, today, does not have the cash on hand to fund day to day expenditures, much less pensions and health care responsibilities.
That is the near-term future.
The longer term future is a large scale reduction of defense and a corresponding increase in instability across the globe. When the world's policeman canno longer enforce stability, the class of civilizations will be impossible to ignore. Imagine a nuclear-armed mid-east, whose only resources is terrorism and oil, under economic pressure fro an imploding West.
Imagine your own scenarios. None are pretty. All will directly impact our safety.
Don't worry, there will be no armed rebellion, just the slow steady process of Darwinian selection.
Posted by: garrettc at March 22, 2010 03:10 PM (DQjJA)
11
Dude,
Why don't you just move to Europe or Cuba? That seems to be your "rest of the the world". Maybe Venezuela?
As to the equivalent of a Constitutional Convention let me refer you to the 21st amendment in 1933.
Read the Texas Constitution, Dude. You're right, its probably not going to happen but for those of us that are libertarian it's a "wistful" dream when we have correspond with Stalinists like you.
Best wishes and enjoy Cuban heath care.
RiverRat
Posted by: RiverRat at March 22, 2010 03:25 PM (RpON0)
12
Salvage,
You are wrong. Many people voted for Obama for many different reasons. Some thought he was cute, some liked the way he talked, most didn't like McCain, but few were voting for his principals. Only 20% of Americans are dedicated socialist. But look at this, 46% of Americans are on the US payrole in some manner. Only 20 to 30% of Americans pay tax of any degree. That is setting up friction that is clearly being expressed here. We are tired of our government and the direction it is taking. You can not say that elections indicate the will of the people and we will need to do something to get the politicians back on track. Our forefathers set up a system of elections much different from what we have. Originally only people of property were able to vote. This process that we are currently seeing shows the reason why.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 03:29 PM (jHK8i)
13
but few were voting for his principal?
Really? You know this how?
Are you sure you're not just upset because the guy you didn't vote for is doing stuff you don't like so rather than accepting the democratic reality you're just making stuff up to compensate? Like pretending that the majority thinks as you do despite the obvious truth that they do not?
Posted by: salvage at March 22, 2010 03:47 PM (Gk2oj)
14
Swen,
Well, the insurance companies will only be "private" for a few years. Then they'll be bankrupted, management bailed out by the Obamunists, and they'll become wards of the elite political bureaucracy just like GM, aka Government Motors. Enjoy your Yugo and your Cuban heathcare. That's what your friends, like Dude, voted for.
If the useful fools commenting here don't understand this maybe they could take the time to study the 80 year history of the Soviet Socialist Republic as well as France and Britain more recently.
Posted by: RiverRat at March 22, 2010 03:54 PM (RpON0)
15
That's really helpful Dave(TM)
Thanks.
RiverRat
Posted by: RiverRat at March 22, 2010 03:58 PM (RpON0)
16
How I long for the good old days when we had a legitimate President. Someone who lost the popular vote but had the Supreme Court rule 5-4 that a state can't recount it's own votes. That was Democracy at it's finest! Having a bill past the Senate with 60 votes, and then pass the House with 219 is...Tyranny!
If you don't like the way our President and Congress govern, vote for other people. That's the American way. It worked wonders in 1994, it worked wonders in 2008.
Wishing for the good old days when only propertied white males had full civil rights is not only unproductive, but it's fairly disgusting.
Posted by: Jim at March 22, 2010 04:23 PM (3GzXA)
17
For Dude,
Something to consider and add to the fears: 90% of the US Military voted for the Conservative candidate. The Armed Forces Network has had to - for the first time in its history - run ads reminding Military personnel that bad-mouthing the President or other Federal elected officials is a court-martial offense.
Because from what I've seen and heard, the vast majority of the Military looks at these folks as fools at best and tyrants at worst. The US Military has a very, very long history of staying OUT of politics, as it well should be!
But things are starting to rumble and that is scary. Tens of thousands of Americans are veterans, combat trained and experienced and they are buying guns and ammunition at record rates.
I dunno about you, but if *I* were a politician, especially a liberal politician, I'd be scared witless right about now.
I mean, IF, say 30,000 Armed Americans marched on Washington to drag those folks out of their offices and tar and feather them...Would the Military - especially the average Soldier - feel that stopping them was defending the Constitution...or that helping them would be?
Think about the fall of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact nations. Think about the actions of the people and those Soldiers. Think about Boris Yeltsin, riding on a Tank. *I* surely would be were I one of the folks that voted for this bill.
Orion
Posted by: Orion at March 22, 2010 04:37 PM (UnCdA)
18
JH:
...The President is not elected by the popular vote. The Supreme Court vote was 7-2. The 5-4 vote was different. Try to get your facts straight. Also, why not mention that the newspapers went in afterwards and counted all the ballots and found that Bush won FL?
Yes, it is tyranny. Ever hear of the Tyranny of the Majority? Especially with the illegal maneuvering required to get those 219 votes (Cornhusker Kickback, Gator Aid, Louisiana Purchase, etc.)...And the same bill DIDN'T pass the House and the Senate, in violation of the legislative process that's been used for hundreds of years. Yes, that's tyranny.
Vote for other people. Yes, that would work nicely if not for ACORN and other Democrat groups supplying tens of thousands of fraudulent votes in state after state after state. C'Mon, even YOU guys admit you use illegal vote-gathering methods. It worked in Washington, Ohio, Pennsylvania...and it almost worked in Massachusetts, didn't it?
Nice straw man there with the 'only propertied white males'...Anyone here - except you - mention race at all? No, that'd be you. And only you. Racist.
Orion
Posted by: Orion at March 22, 2010 04:42 PM (UnCdA)
19
RiverRat, The 21st Amendment is in no way an equivalent of a Constitutional Convention to amend the Constitution of the United States. That language to which you refer in the 21st was used therein simply to confirm the Constitutional requirements of amending the Constitution, in this case an amendment repealing a previous amendment.
Article V of the Constitution clearly tells us what has to happen for a Constitutional Convention to be called. It's not an easy thing to accomplish. I quote:
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress"
So, you have to get 2/3 of the states to agree to call for a convention. Then, any proposed amendments have to be either ratified by 3/4 of the state legislatures or by conventions in 3/4 of the states.
The reason that we won't have a Constitutional Convention is because a convention, unlike a proposed single amendment to the constitution, would make the "entire" constitution subject to being amended, even our precious Bill of Rights. Regardless of which political party happens to be the "party du jour", that just ain't gonna happen. There's simply too much at stake and too much to lose.
As for your fantasies of secession, I don't need to read the Texas Constitution. However, for you to get a clear understanding on the issue of secession I do recommend that you research the SCOTUS ruling known as Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869). Unless and until that ruling is overturned, states do not have a constitutional right to secede from the Union, in spite of libertarian rhetoric to the contrary.
I'm not a Stalinist. I'm an American citizen and I'm a patriot. Fortunately, I've taken the time to learn a little bit about debating with folks like you, who frequently resort to fallacies in argumentation. When you can't debate a topic on the issues, what the heck, just call the other fella some insulting names. Yeah, that will settle the debate!
I have no intention of moving out of MY country. Feel free to move if you wish, but I'm staying here.
David: Actually, I do understand. I think that it's you who don't understand. I know many conservatives; family and friends. However, I can't say that I personally know ANY self professed conservatives today who view the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as a "loss of freedom".
Anyone who does consider that legislation as having "robbed them of their freedom" is in a very small minority. Imagine, if you will, the political future of any politician in America today who would propose the repeal of that legislation. Such thinking is far removed from mainstream conservatism.
Posted by: Dude at March 22, 2010 04:52 PM (5gxhz)
20
Dude, if/when this abonmination is forced on the people, I don't think you and your socialist friends are going to be as happy with the results as you had planned on being.
Posted by: emdfl at March 22, 2010 05:04 PM (vwRFo)
21
Orion,
Bush v Gore was 5-4.
http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2000/2000_00_949/
Of course I've heard of the tyranny of the majority. What's your point, that no legislation is legitimate unless it has 100% support in Congress and with the public? I'd love to hear you explain your remedy to this sort of 60 vote tyranny.
Illegal maneuvering? Please. Yeah, some congressmen got things into the bill that help their constituents, that's not illegal, that's how laws get made.
The House passed the Senate bill last night, in what way was there a different bill?
As for the tens of thousands of illegal ACORN votes I'd love to see you link to one fraudulent vote in one federal election. Just one please.
No Orion, David didn't mention race, or sex, when he gushed about the the good old days when our Forefathers only let some adults vote, I was just reminding him who those some people were and weren't. I'm glad to see you agree with me that we're much better off having rid our country of those qualifications.
Posted by: Jim at March 22, 2010 05:20 PM (3GzXA)
22
Dude, salvage,
You are wrong. Your arguments are empty and I do congratulate dude on admitting that all you want to do is debate. This bill has started a ball rolling and I feel that people are going to react like they never have in the past. Obama seems hell bent on distroying the country. So far we have not seen an economic reaction, that will come in due course and as people begin to loose their jobs and savings, things will happen.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 05:26 PM (jHK8i)
23
The other thing about confrontation. Most Anglo-Saxons are not interested in blowing up planes or other stupid expressions. They know our weaknesses and that is the politicians. They are scared. Any effort will be aimed in that direction.
I'm not quite following you, David. Are you advocating that right-wingers ASSASSINATE politicians such as OBAMA and PELOSI? Can you be a bit more explicit about what you're hinting out, while we're out here on a public forum?
Why be so coy?
Posted by: Phoenician in a time of Romans at March 22, 2010 05:27 PM (TVRdg)
24
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. March 19-21, 2010
“As you may know, the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate are trying to pass final legislation that would make major changes in the country’s health care system. Based on what you have read or heard about that legislation, do you generally favor it or generally oppose it?” If oppose: “Do you oppose that legislation because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think it is not liberal enough?”
Favor: %39
Too Liberal Oppose: %43
Not Liberal Enough Oppose: %13
=> %52 vs %43
i'm sorry, the truth is that this %13 who opposed the bill because is it not liberal enough ain't a gonna be voting republican this fall
and more:
“Who do you trust more to handle major changes in the country’s health care system: Barack Obama or the Republicans in Congress?”
Barack Obama %51
Republicans %39
“Who do you trust more to handle major changes in the country’s health care system: the Democrats in Congress or the Republicans in Congress?”
Democrats in Congress %45
Republicans in Congress %39
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 22, 2010 07:56 PM (/KK3f)
25
Jim,
I think you're confusing the issue. The 7-2 vote was that Gore's re-count strategem's were unconstitutional (different standards to try to get his counts up). That pretty much ended the election. The 5-4 vote was that Gore should stop his nonsense and that the date for recounts was past. Don't forget, the papers did another recount 'just for fun' and found out Bush won anyway, by any standard. That didn't get as much publicity, of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore#Vote_breakdown_and_opinions
To Phonecian, anyone who is advocating any sort of violence or unlawful insurrection against the Government of the United States is a fool and probably a troll. Nice use of emphasis there...are YOU a troll? Starting to smell like one.
The next 'battle' is electoral and at the ballot box in November, not in the streets.
Jim again - I think you'll find the vast majority of Conservatives are non-racist. Remember, the Republicans are the ones who passed the Civil Rights Act while the Democrats did everything they could to derail it.
My point on the tyranny of the majority is exactly that. Read up on it. What you have is a group of people who are ramming legislation down our throats. Despite huge, vocal majorities showing that they do NOT want this bill. And the only way they PASSED the bill was through so many dirt backroom deals that about 2/3 of the States are already preparing legal challenges against it.
These people are supposed to REPRESENT their people, not RULE them.
Orion
Posted by: Orion at March 22, 2010 08:16 PM (UnCdA)
26
Yes one of the votes in B v G was 7-2, another was 5-4, and a 3rd was 3-6. Different cases have different internal votes but what counts and get's reported is the final decision, the remedy, which in B v G was 5-4. It was 5-4 to stop the recount on 12/9 and 5-4 to deny Gore any further chances to get a recount.
My point isn't that Bush was illegitimate, my point is that there was a far stronger argument about the legitimacy of his Presidency than the fact that while he was in office he signed some bills that didn't have wide based support.
I never said anything about Conservatives in general being racist, I made a comment about two of the posts made here. David was dreaming of better times if only some people didn't have the right to vote as per our forefathers wishes.
As for the Civil Rights act, yes it had support from northern Republicans (and Democrats) but it certainly was opposed by Conservatives, and all most all of the Southern Democrats. The negative reaction of conservatives to the Civil Rights Act is the direct cause for the South switching from being solid Democratic to being solid Republican. The racists left the Democrats and have voted Republican ever since. Just ask Newt Gingrich.
Lastly, what huge vocal majority is against this bill? 43-39-13, with the 39% for the bill and 13% who wanted a bill that was more liberal.
Even if you lump the ultra liberals into the 43% opposed to the bill that's still only 60-40. The country was 60-40 or more against continued occupation of Iraq from about 2005 on. That wasn't tyranny either, although it did cost the Republican party in the 2006 and 2008 elections.
Were you honestly asking Bush to listen to the polls about Iraq? Elections matter -- well at least when Republicans win!
Posted by: Jim at March 22, 2010 09:58 PM (0Kv0+)
27
Oh, I'm wrong, usually when I think other people are wrong I bring up like and points to back my statement up, I don't rely on my naked declaration alone.
Would it be too much beyond your paygrade to explain how I'm wrong when I point out that Obama ran on HCR and won thus suggesting that the American people in fact want HCR?
Posted by: salvage at March 22, 2010 10:39 PM (Gk2oj)
28
I just re-read the blog to which we're responding. The last sentence says: "The thought of the morally-required alternative is almost too much to bear."
Morally-required alternative??? This would be funny if it weren't so absurd. You folks who subscribe to this line of reasoning are a puzzle to the rest of us. Thank God that you're an insignificant minority.
Morally-required alternative??? Get over it. America is changing, for the better.
Posted by: Dude at March 22, 2010 11:02 PM (5gxhz)
29
Armed rebellion? And against whom, exactly, do we rebel at this moment? Storm the Congress and do what, exactly and to whom? Are Congressional staff as culpable as their bosses? Are appointed officials as culpable as elected officials? Career bureaucrats?
No. Now is not the time. But the mere fact that so many peaceful, honest, patriotic Americans are actively considering the potential necessity of revolt is a clear indication of how deranged and destructive to liberty the socialists (that is what the democrats have revealed themselves to be) truly are. Remember that even Hubert Humphrey--hardly a conservative firebrand--said, decades ago, that tyranny seems remote in contemporary America, yet it's always possible.
Here might be some signs of increasing concern:
(1) The courts refuse to consider challenges to Obamacare, or rule that government can require Americans to buy whatever they want them to buy and can imprison and fine them if they refuse. Does anyone see a Chevy or Chrysler in their future? Look for the union label?
(2) The socialists continue to impose all of the trappings of the worker's paradise on America, including taking over energy, education, throwing open the borders, etc., using corrupt, ugly, unconstitutional methods.
(3) Socialist attempts to establish a domestic police/security/intelligence force--Obama spoke of this kind of brown shirt force even while campaigning--to enforce socialist orthodoxy.
(4) Socialist attempts to restrict or abolish the First Amendment, and particularly, the Second Amendment.
(5) Declaring martial law in part or all of America, in response to a natural disaster or terrorist attack, or on any other pretext.
We can absolutely count on the first two items, and the rest could easily follow. Brownshirts, or in this case, more likely purple shirts, will be necessary because most American police and military will not support Obama and his comrades. Some will. Some always do.
Will Obama try to seize all firearms? When that happens, that could easily be the final trip wire and it would likely be accompanied by declarations of martial law.
What is disturbing is that no rational person will have any difficulty imagining that what I'm suggesting could easily come to pass if Obama and the Socialist party gets their way. Not too much more seizure of power, and they'll be sufficiently emboldened.
But let's remember a few things:
If American descends into internal strife, the crazed dictators around the world will act (much more of Obama and some of them doubtless will anyway). Russia could very well seize a new soviet empire, Taiwan and South Korea could easily be lost, Israel destroyed, global genocides, many South and Central American nations overrun, and the world economy collapsed.
And let's be very, very careful about calling a Constitutional Convention. Once established, a Con Con can literally rewrite the Constitution in any way it pleases. No matter the good intentions of those calling it, that's a terribly, terribly dangerous proposition.
So in the meantime, watch, wait, prepare. Relish in the fact that Obama is the best firearm salesman America has ever seen. Stock up on all one might need to survive if the worst case scenario comes to pass, but do all that you can within the law and the Constitution, first, last and always, to avoid that worst case scenario.
Posted by: mikemcdaniel at March 22, 2010 11:40 PM (qjRSd)
30
Dude, Savage, Jim, and I probably missed a few. Keep trolling. Get out of your Progressive town and look around. We are not a minority. Nullification and Secession are both option. I am hoping that enough States use nullification to force the Federal government back in line but I have little hope at this point. I have come to the point that I don't see how this country can remain in its present form. We have two diametrically opposing cultures (progressive vs Constitutionalism) and the two can not coexist so I think it is just a matter of time. Compound peek-energy and the planned implosion of the economy by members of congress and the bankers and there is really no reason to put up with this mess any longer. I left CA for a reason and not it is fully at the Federal level and I find that unbearable as do mean others. Remember the first revolution was not fought and won by a majority and we are again seeing by the crooks in congress over the last year and more. It will only take an active 3% to stop this mess and before you crow about the government stepping in please research asymmetric warfare and what 3% or more would mean. You may not like it and believe it but that is exactly why it is going to happen unless this stops. We just finished healthcare and now we are starting on immigration. Does anyone really think the country is going to "roll over"? Really?
The number of people looking for cover is growing every day so are the people that know they are going to have to fix this if the politicians don't start listening...
I know that I have wasted my time in writing this. I have lived around progressives for too many years to know you are even capable of changing. On top of that you feel that this is your time. Well I guess it is so go ahead and do your best. But at some point don't say we did not warn you....
Posted by: s4f at March 22, 2010 11:51 PM (u0FmQ)
31
"I left CA for a reason and not it is fully at the Federal level and I find that unbearable as do mean others."
That right there makes just as much sense as preaching nullification and secession as majority views.
Posted by: Jim at March 23, 2010 12:50 AM (0Kv0+)
32
Bob can you help me understand something? In your post you say:
"A commenter at WRAL lamented that the small business where his wife was employed was forced into firing 35 of their 60 part-time employees this morning because they would not be able to afford their health care."
Why would anyone have to fire people today because of changes that will occur in 2014?
Posted by: Jim at March 23, 2010 12:57 AM (0Kv0+)
33
For those of you who are simple enough to want to be like the "Other Civilized" countries of Europe you might want to sheck out their unemployment and social problems. The other main reason that these wonderfully civilized countries can do so much with their health care is because they spend almost no money on defense. They know the US will come to their aid anytime and their armies are worthless. Their birth rates are below replacement levels and the Muslims are taking over their cultures. As far as the election in Fl. is concerned no state is allowed to make up rules that govern federal elections. The SCOTUS had to step in to prevent a mockery of national election laws. Anyone who thinks this arrogance by the Dems is business as usual is full of s**t. And to compare this rotten bill and the majority who did not and do not want with the war in Iraq is not only stupid but devoid of rational thought . If you look at the polls taken during WW II you will see huge swings in public opinion on very successful operations. No one, I repeat no one could ever run a war by poll. What an asinine thing to say. You have to be very young to not understand that. The last thing on this issue is that the US is the last hope of mankind and when we sink to the third world level we will be fighting to save our own skins, not the world's.
Posted by: inspectorudy at March 23, 2010 01:41 AM (Vo1wX)
34
mikemcdaniel: Armed rebellion? And against whom, exactly, do we rebel at this moment? Storm the Congress and do what, exactly and to whom? Are Congressional staff as culpable as their bosses? Are appointed officials as culpable as elected officials? Career bureaucrats?
Yes.
Posted by: wolfwalker at March 23, 2010 06:51 AM (0u1Dr)
35
As a member of the armed forces, I'm stunned by the absolute and utter stupidity of this post and the blatant bigotry of those who commented.
I'm not sure I could have imagined a more patently moronic debate.
Posted by: Sam at March 23, 2010 07:16 AM (tqpYL)
36
>We are not a minority.
Really? Weird that Obama got more votes,usually that means a majority but I live in reality so I guess my experience may be a bit different from yours.
I am getting a kick out of these wingnut fantasies about socialized medicine ebing the gateway to communism, I guess in your world you haven't noticed that every single Western democracy has that sort of a system and are still capitalists.
But again reality, it's not for everyone.
Posted by: salvage at March 23, 2010 07:37 AM (dtgFH)
37
inspectorudy,
hey, take a trip to Europe one day, don't believe all the bs from Steyn and the like about Europe. We are nto getting taken over by muslims, we have proper well funded healthcare, as well as decent education and fine looking women. As for 'a lack of defence spending', well so what, can't see many folk lining up to attack us.
The reason your wingnut lords and masters keep talking smack about Europe is that Europe works, and the sooner you guys get on board, the better for civilization as a whole. Progressives win cause we are always proved right.
Posted by: Mangoes of Evil at March 23, 2010 08:08 AM (bG0FI)
38
You are all right. Violene is not yet the answer but soon can be. I will hold fire until then. A constitutional convention is ideal and very possible and who cares if we throw everything out? Look at what we have! I see so many here educated beyond their intelligence. I cannot kill everyone who is responsible for this. I only have two boxes of .45 shells. Many are not worth the price of the shells. A good thing I have knives, swords, bolts and arrows aplenty. Meyhem is too much work. Property in Belize is cheap. They speak English and it is warm. I like a country founded by pirates. I will still be a Texan until I die. If Texas allows this we are the last generation. We should make them remember. Bang!
Posted by: Odins Acolyte at March 23, 2010 09:52 AM (brIiu)
39
I do not know all that is in this giant bill but things are beginning to come out and I oppose it and I think in 2014 when tne benefits begin the poor will be shocked by substandard healthcare.
I am trying to become self sufficient, I live in a small farm house nestled next to Hoffman Forrest and I think I could support myself for awhile when our economy collapses under the weight of all of these socialist reforms, I oppose violence but alot of folk who work and pay taxes are tired of supporting those who do not.
A very smug Obama just signed this bill into law, does that mean all of the new taxes start ??? And 16,000 new IRS agents to enforce the new taxes with new expanded powers, when do they get hired and get busy???
Posted by: duncan at March 23, 2010 11:15 AM (7kWwS)
40
Odins: Enjoy your new home in Belize. If you haven't thoroughly checked it out yet, I'd advise that you take a trip down there, explore, investigate to make sure you'll be satisfied living there. Do keep in mind that you Constitutional rights as an American citizen will be meaningless down there.
Sam: Thank you. It's nice to hear from a member of our armed forces chiming in with a bit of a reality check in response to the many "patently moronic" responses in this debate. My hat is off to you, Sir.
Salvage and tacitus voltaire: I appreciate the thoughtful contributions that both of you have made to this discussion. It's refreshing to see some reality based folks adding to this discussion.
And to all of you folks who think that an armed revolution is imminent, I'd suggest that you read news and commentaries from both sides of the political fence, so to speak. Really, it will help you to put things in a more proper, reality based perspective. That's exactly why I (a self described progressive on many, but not all, issues) spend time on reading news and commentaries from across the spectrum.
In fact, even better than that, spend time within your own community to get a feel for how the community at large feels about the current situation. In my community many people disagree with the Obama administration. However, I don't talk of an armed revolution. Get a grip on reality.
Posted by: Dude at March 23, 2010 11:37 AM (5gxhz)
41
For CY: If, as you suggest, that this piece of legislation is unconstitutional, we already have in place a system of checks and balances to decide if it is or isn't unconstitutional. It's known as The Supreme Court of the United States.
I'm sure that many lawsuits will ensue as a result of the legislation. Let the Constitutionally provided system of checks and balances play its role and let the chips fall where they may.
In your blog you state: "Some are calling for the armed revolt against this encroaching tyranny. It was for this specific reason, after all, that our Founders made sure Americans would not be denied the use of arms."
It's my opinion that we have the Second Amendment because the Founders were concerned about tyranny on the local level more so than on a national level. I concede that this is just my opinion.
Nevertheless, in this modern era, an armed revolt on a national scale would be immediately crushed. Think back to the civil rights era and the firm stance by Governor Wallace against integration of the public education system in Alabama. While many of the individual members of the Alabama National Guard surely agreed with Governor Wallace's position, once the Guard had been nationalized by President Kennedy, there was no question as to who was, in fact, the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.
We have yet to experience a revolt of the Armed Forces against the Commander in Chief of our nation. To suggest that they might do so as a result of health care legislation is, I think, delusional. In fact, you insult them to suggest that they may do such a thing, especially over a piece of legislation which seeks to ultimately ensure that all Americans have health care.
Posted by: Dude at March 23, 2010 12:02 PM (5gxhz)
42
@ Orion
"Vote for other people. Yes, that would work nicely if not for ACORN and other Democrat groups supplying tens of thousands of fraudulent votes in state after state after state."
Oh noes..... not the awesome power of a fully operational ACORN office! Kindly forward one credible link... just one, dude... that supports your paranoid delusions about ACORN.
Posted by: montysano at March 23, 2010 03:19 PM (QQhMz)
43
If this erupts into gun violence, just remember that it is YOU on the right advocating it. It is YOU openly talking of breaking windows and heads. It is YOU on the right defying the laws of our nation. It is YOU on the right screaming about the failings of democracy when democracy hasn't failed - you've just failed to get your way. and now it's YOU on the right acting like soon-to-be criminals and terrorists threatening gun violence on the streets of America.
All because you didn't get a vote to go the way you want. You're no better than Saddam's henchmen who would cut off the purple-stained fingers of those who dared to vote in the first elections.
You on the right advocating this violence (and using the 3rd grade "they made me hit them" excuse) are burgeoning domestic terrorists.
Much respect to our police and law enforcement who will jail your law-breaking asses if you do try any of this wingnut crap.
s4f sets it up as progressive vs Constitutionalist. Laughable. What about violent overthrow of the government is in the Constitution. Which Article or Amendment mentions that as a right? It does not. In fact, this barely hidden talk of violence is a crime. It's called sedition. Carrying it out is treason.
You paranoiacs would be laughable if it weren't so frightening that you believe all of this bunker-mentality nonsense.
Democracy worked, even if you don't like the result. This is NOT what George Washington and Sam Adams fought for. They fought because they couldn't get a vote. You had yours. You just lost, and now you're behaving like poorly-trained children.
Democracy worked.
Posted by: CJ at March 23, 2010 10:24 PM (jsQWZ)
44
Some are calling for the armed revolt against this encroaching tyranny.
Oh, well, it's America. Somebody's always calling for armed revolt against something or other. I remember when Handicap Parking laws were first instituted. Gunshots rang out over that. And ordinances requiring color-sorted recyclables. Integrated lunch counters. That got ugly. Oddly enough, the only time the US government ever actually rounded up people and shipped them by rail to internment camps, no shots were fired.
We are a strange country.
Posted by: Twinks Tvet at March 23, 2010 10:25 PM (8kQ8M)
45
Big deal. There's no way their beloved Kenyan messiah is going to be able to pay for this monstrosity - in 5-10 yrs' time repeal won't even be an issue because it will be so blatantly obvious that there is no way to fund all of the benefits included. Preexisting conditions funded? benefits for illegals? lol. In a way I admire teleprompter Jeebus - he sure does have a way of convincing this country's rubes that there is such a thing as a free lunch. More fool them.
Posted by: Nine-of-Diamonds at March 24, 2010 09:50 AM (1fRyx)
46
"Kenyan messiah"? the man is an American citizen and the President of the United States
Why don't you just nut up, act like man and call him a ni**er? You KNOW you do it in private and you KNOW want to do it in public. Grow a set of nuts.
Say it. Ni**er. You know you'll feel better and all will be able to see what you REALLY are and what your agenda REALLY is.
Posted by: CJ at March 24, 2010 01:26 PM (fJTqC)
47
Oooh yeah! Goldstein's Law is proven once again!
As the length of an internet thread increases, the likelihood that "progressive" slime will resort to racial slurs approaches 100%.
Face it, rube:
1) The shine's coming off your beloved Kenyan jeebus.
2) It's not a mater of politics - it's a matter of mathematics. There is no way the Kenyan can fulfill all the promises he has made re: health care, whether he decides to use the current bastardized model or a utopian 100% gov't run solution.
3) No need to take out your hate on black people. It's a beautiful day outside - go do something constructive, like putting Senator Byrd's linens on the clothesline. lol!
Posted by: Nine-of-Diamonds at March 27, 2010 12:26 PM (Eg9Id)
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March 21, 2010
Media Matters Irate That I Stated An Obvious Truth
Media Matters is furious that I dared challenge the farcical Democratic claim that health care is a "right." when I wrote on my Twitter account:
the next one of these jackasses that calls #healthcare a "right" deserves to be drawn and quartered.
I proudly stand by that comment.
A handful of elitists spoke on the House floor this evening, arrogantly insisting that it was our financial obligation (yours and mine) to pay for the medical care of others, and insisting it is their "right" to be provided medical care.
It most certainty is not.
According to Democrats such as Nancy Pelosi (who just so happened to be the Democrat speaking when I wrote that tweet, but was assuredly not the first), it is my obligation to pay for your "right." I will be forced to pay for coverage, whether I want it or not. I will be forced to pay for the coverage of others, whether I want it or not.
I stand by my comment that the Democrats who crammed this unwarranted bill down the throats of the American people who clearly and overwhelmingly opposed it deserve to be drawn and quartered.
As Wikipedia notes, having someone "laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion" is the very definition of
involuntary servitude... slavery. We are Americans, and will be slaves to no man, no Congress, and no President.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:14 PM
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1
Don't be fighting this tide. I am going to get me a rifle from the government for my right to bear arms.
Posted by: Joe at March 21, 2010 11:44 PM (HSfpS)
2
Right on! And here's the part that I don't understand: let's stipulate, for the sake of argument, that "health care" is a "right". By what power does the government have any business limiting any citizen's access to health care? Isn't calling it a right the same as saying that the buffet is open, and it's all-you-can-eat? If I have a right to health care, well, by gum, the next time I'm sick, I want the PET scan, the MRI, the laser surgery, and, oh, since I have myopia and I am going to be there anyway, I demand that my "right" to LASIK to correct my vision be honored. For free.
Or am I missing something about the concept of health care as a "right"?
Posted by: Paul at March 21, 2010 11:50 PM (mYnJ6)
3
For anyone who believes that healthcare is a right, consider this...
The right of free speech...You also have the right NOT to exercise your right of free speech if you'd like...
The right to assemble...You also have the right NOT to exercise your right to assemble if you'd like...
The right to bare arms...You also have the right NOT to exercise your right to bare arms if you'd like...
But he right to healthcare?...Doesn't pass the smell test...
You are FORCED BY LAW now to be part of the plan irrelevant of whether or not you wanted to exercise that ability...
Therefore, it is, unequivically, NOT a "right"...
cnredd
Political Wrinkles
http://politicalwrinkles.com
Posted by: cnredd at March 21, 2010 11:52 PM (XdXvF)
4
Health care, like Soylent Green, is people. These ones still have names, though.
Posted by: Pablo at March 22, 2010 12:08 AM (yTndK)
5
"Of course health care is a right - we just need to pay for it more efficiently so as to save some of our money."
Assertion is not proof, and there certainly is nothing to increase efficiency within the abomination of "reform" Congress just vomited on us.
I've never gotten an answer from any leftist why, if providing health insurance to the uninsured was so important to them, they never formed a charity to do it. Why they demand that other people be forced to pay for something they consider so important.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 22, 2010 06:03 AM (n2wxa)
6
Although the taxes will start immediately (so much for the promise about not raising taxes "one dime") the alleged "care" will not start until 2014. The country will be bankrupt before then.
Posted by: Just Sayin' at March 22, 2010 06:22 AM (XUpm+)
7
My flag flies upside down as we are all in distress and stand to lose our lives, property and liberty to this tyrannical government.
Posted by: Patriot at March 22, 2010 06:38 AM (+tzWQ)
8
Owning a gun is a right too, so does that mean I can get someone to pay for the guns I want?
These people(I dare not call them Americans) have along with their media arm, have attempted to hijack the notion health care is a right. While it sounds nice, it's not right. They of course have also attempted to shape this in moral terms too. As if people who support baby killing have any morals to start with.
Posted by: citizenofmanassas at March 22, 2010 07:06 AM (ps4OZ)
9
No rational argument was listened to. No Constitutional argument was heeded. The left WANTED what it WANTED. Never have I seen such religious fervor from people that took the Dems pronouncements about this bill like a Voice From GOD.
The thing about irrational love, is that when it is shown to be false, irrational hatred is the natural result.
Posted by: Tracy Coyle at March 22, 2010 07:28 AM (gorkw)
10
It's weird the way you'll cheerfully spend billions to blow up people in the Middle East but will whine like a little girl about paying for you fellow American's health.
Why is that?
Posted by: salvage at March 22, 2010 08:11 AM (Gk2oj)
11
The party of slavery have voted in slavery yet again using different words to describe it.
Posted by: Mark L at March 22, 2010 08:13 AM (AfORa)
12
Salvage good, others bad
Posted by: Boo at March 22, 2010 09:02 AM (ZyB29)
13
I've never gotten an answer from any leftist why, if providing health insurance to the uninsured was so important to them, they never formed a charity to do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haight_Ashbury_Free_Clinics
And again, the proof is in the pudding as to whether we consider health care a right in this country. On the one hand, we the have the Hippocratic Oath, emergency room service mandated by means of the rules governing hospital incorporation, and next to zero public outcry for shutting down ERs.
On the other hand, we have you braying that 'health care is not a right!'
Posted by: D. Aristophanes at March 22, 2010 09:05 AM (a5QDq)
14
You want to fix health care *and* the national deficit & debt? We can have both. But we're gonna have to gut the Pentagon first. It's the biggest sinkhole for good money there is. One decade, a trillion dollars, and goatherders in caves have got us pinned down in the mountains of Asia, with no end in sight. How's that working out?
BTW, David Frum wrote a very good commentary yesterday, but Republicans are too scared to comment. I mean, I get that conservatives scare easily and are primarily motivated by irrational fears, but fear of David Frum...? C'mon, if that's the neocon spine, then it's no wonder the twin towers of our sacred War on Drugs and Terrorism are failing as woefully as the GOP's misguided Epic Fail War Against Health Care Reform.
Posted by: Billy Bob Tweed at March 22, 2010 09:09 AM (nqYRj)
15
gee........i don't remember being asked if i wanted a one trillion dollar war jammed down my throat wihout paying for it, or income tax cuts for the wealthy, or bailouts for the banks - I must be missing something with your blog about health care, seems selective in its approach
Posted by: cargil at March 22, 2010 09:09 AM (7Jwc6)
16
Who pays for free ER care for the uninsured?
Posted by: Troy Flowers at March 22, 2010 09:32 AM (a9gh4)
17
We have a war now, should this become law. The little liberal weenies who have been crying about illegal wars over seas are about to have a real reason to cry. This shall not stand in my land.
Never.
Posted by: Odins Acolyte at March 22, 2010 09:47 AM (brIiu)
18
Semper fi, Odins. Last nights' vote was a Declaration of War. Keyboard Kommandos call to action: "Operation This Shall Not Stand In My Land. Never." Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition. (Or is that popcorn?)
Posted by: Weasel's Ripped My Flesh at March 22, 2010 10:27 AM (nqYRj)
19
The fact is, I ain't gonna pay for it. No way.
Posted by: Gary Ruppert at March 22, 2010 11:12 AM (U+fuL)
20
Oh, come now, Joe! Don't be so coy...
Let's have a list of the people you intend to shoot with your rifle! Perhaps to be posted on Twitter for all the world to see, that they may marvel at your martial virtue!
Posted by: Grondo at March 22, 2010 11:12 AM (h7KyL)
21
I don't see why you're so upset. This bill is so unpopular, anyone who runs on repealing ObamaCare is a guaranteed winner. badabing badaboom, instant GOP majority! as long as the republicans are smart enough to campaign on repealing the bill.
Posted by: benjoya at March 22, 2010 11:28 AM (vp+2w)
22
may i add: please please PLEASE campaign on repealing ObamaCare. this will not stand in my land!
Posted by: benjoya at March 22, 2010 11:29 AM (vp+2w)
23
cargil,
You cut the taxes on the wealthy because no one else payes taxes. Can you understand that concept? The small amount of money that you might pay to taxes is nothing. When you are writing 6 figures to the IRS, then you can have an opinion.
As to the one trillion debt, you are mistaken, the debt is about 12 trillion under Obama. Now it looks like your building up to a Bush moment, stop right now as most conservatives view Bush as a liberal. The only talent the man had was that he was not Gore or Kerry. Look what has happened as a consequence of voting for scum.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 11:45 AM (jHK8i)
24
"I will be forced to pay for the coverage of others, whether I want it or not"
i was forced to pay for a lot of things that i didn't want to pay for, like killing people in other countries, most of which were much less morally defensible than buying health insurance for poor children
quit yer whining and grow up!
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 22, 2010 12:29 PM (aor+S)
25
OH NO!!! My precious, precious freedom dashed on the jagged rocks of "26 year olds get to stay on their parents' insurance" and "small businesses will be able to write-off as much as 50% of their health care costs."
We must battle against these things. How dare elected officials in a representative democracy vote to MANDATE that insurance companies can't deny coverage to children because they have pre-existing conditions!! ANGER!!!
Posted by: Barry at March 22, 2010 02:02 PM (KTL7T)
26
"As Wikipedia notes, having someone "laboring against that person's will to benefit another, under some form of coercion" is the very definition of involuntary servitude... slavery."
So you're against ANY form of taxation that results in ANY redistribution of wealth? If I pay taxes that in any way benefit another person, I am being coerced?
This is why I don't take many conservative bloggers seriously. When you're equally willing to declare war on the federal government over corporate subsidies, all tariffs, all license fees, etc., I'll take you seriously.
And I get that your quote includes "against his will," but these bills were passed by majorities in both houses of Congress. If a tax is passed by a democratically elected majority, you consent. Otherwise, as many have noted already, I could easily object to my taxes being spent for things I don't approve of, and claim I didn't consent to be taxed for purposes I find obnoxious.
As someone much smarter than I am wrote, "Enlightenment is man's freeing himself from his own self-imposed chains." You complain that this bill deprives you of your freedom, but you cannot be free at all while you are still bound by the chains of your own self-imposed ignorance.
Posted by: Reginald Perrin at March 22, 2010 02:47 PM (uFBOs)
27
"when you write six figures to the IRS, then you can have an opinion"
Wow, so only millionaires show be allowed to have a voice in the country. That sounds like a much better system than American democracy.
WOLVERINES!!!!!!
Posted by: Mysticdog at March 22, 2010 02:55 PM (qOcqb)
28
As the ancient philosophers DEVO once wrote, "When something's going wrong, you must whip it."
Semper Fi, Devo.
Posted by: Gramma Millie at March 22, 2010 03:04 PM (tB7Z3)
29
Mysticdog,
Yea, you got it. Our founders had a system in which you only voted if you had property. This whole process that we see show why. Are you aware that the Greeks, who developed democracy, gave it up as they felt it did not work? We live in a republic. We need to return to that concept. Currently 46% of the US is on the federal payrole, you feel that it is fair that they dictate to the 30% of us paying the bill as to how much we can take home and keep? I don't think so and I am getting mad enough to express my discontent.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 03:35 PM (jHK8i)
30
This whole process that we see show why. Are you aware that the Greeks, who developed democracy, gave it up as they felt it did not work? We live in a republic. We need to return to that concept. Currently 46% of the US is on the federal payrole, you feel that it is fair that they dictate to the 30% of us paying the bill as to how much we can take home and keep?
WINNER OF FIRST PRIZE FOR 'MOST IGNORANT POST IN THIS THREAD'!
congratulations! please accept your free cheeze!
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 22, 2010 05:10 PM (/KK3f)
31
tacitus, the truth,
I see the liberals are out. Name calling. Personal attacks. Try giving some facts. And make sure you don't distort like usual.
Posted by: David at March 22, 2010 05:30 PM (jHK8i)
32
The health care debacle in other countries exists only on the economic merits of price controls and limits to specific care. I've been on Medicare so I've been on the receiving end. I've never seen a politician specify how the U.S. will do anything differently to avoid inevitable rationing. If we intend to go down this path, the wheel will have to be reinvented.
Posted by: Puncheur at March 22, 2010 05:35 PM (dzkxB)
33
Yeah, David you tell them. Facts they cannot deny like 46% of USA is on the payrole and that those of use hear in the Heartland are tired of spuuporting them all we might Go Galt even.
Posted by: Gary Ruppert at March 22, 2010 05:36 PM (YTlAZ)
34
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, government accounts for about 8% of jobs in the United States. Here's the breakdown using numbers easily accessible on the BLS website (all numbers from 2006 or 2007):
1,774,000 Federal government civilian employees, excluding Post Office
615,000 Post Office
1,172,913 Military enlisted
230,577 Military Officers
2,424,000 State government (excluding education and hospitals)
5,594,000 Local government (excluding education and hospitals)
That's a total of 11,810,490 government jobs.
The total number of jobs in the U.S. in 2006 was 150,600,000, so government employment makes up 7.84% of all jobs.
In 2007, the U.S. population (according to the Census Bureau) was 301,621,157, so about 4% of Americans are employed by the government.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_americans_are_government_employed
"athenian democracy" is the name for the form of democracy practised in the small city states of greece in about the 4th century b.c., where all adult male free property holders would get together for votes on important issues. we can't gather all 225 million american adults for votes on every issue, so we have what is called "representative democracy", where we vote directly only for our representatives, who then vote for us. on the other hand, we have extended the vote to all citizens, and have no slaves, so our franchise is more inclusive than athenian democracy. so, you see, we do have democracy, which is a form of government where the people ('demos') are ultimately in charge ('-ocracy'). the united states is a democratic republic.
the democratic city states were ultimately taken over by dictators. it is not true that they voluntarily gave up democracy. you will note that the romans had a democratic form of government from about 496 b.c. to about 27 b.c., when augustus consolidated his one man rule and initiated what we call the imperial period of roman government. however, augustus deceitfully let the roman people believe that democratic government had not been done away with, although when tiberius took over for him after he died it became clear that roman democracy was dead. my 'cousin' p. cornelius tacitus wrote scornfully and vitriolically about the shameful state of roman public life under the emperors...
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 22, 2010 05:46 PM (/KK3f)
35
REPUBLIC (american heritage dictionary)
1.a.A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president.
b.A nation that has such a political order.
c.A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
d.A nation that has such a political order.
2.a.A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.
b.A nation that has such a political order.
DEMOCRACY (american heritage dictionary)
1.Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2.A political or social unit that has such a government.
3.The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4.Majority rule.
5.The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 22, 2010 05:54 PM (/KK3f)
36
yoyo --
snark detector, briar patch, etc.
Posted by: benjoya at March 22, 2010 06:55 PM (vp+2w)
37
What is it about wingnuts and things that shall not stand? Just askin'.
Posted by: Lex at March 22, 2010 07:27 PM (4RUeB)
38
Name one other "Right" that takes another person to gaurantee that you get it. If there is no health care provider whom do you get your right from? What morons!Do any of you know how an insurance compny works? They are like a Las Vegas casino and they work the odds to make a profit. If the government stepped in and told them that everyone must be a winner, how long do you think they would be in business? This is what Obama just did. The young can no longer get cheap health ins. because of their age and the ill can not be denied because of their illness. Where will the profit come from? Oh that's right Medicare!
Posted by: inspectorudy at March 23, 2010 01:50 AM (Vo1wX)
39
They are like a Las Vegas casino and they work the odds to make a profit
if you had worked in a reinsurance company like i did you would know a little more about it. that isn't how insurance companies make most of their money
i bet you also think banks get rich on savings account fees
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 23, 2010 02:09 AM (aor+S)
40
Why is it I can get a response to my comment but my comment doesnt come up? Feel free guys, I know you might have to pay for an item you haven't cost, eg premature babies but then again others are paying for things they dont use eg: national parks, firestations etc.
the short and the long is that you right wingers would prefer to see your neighbours die in the gutter than pay for their children with asthma.
Posted by: yoyo at March 23, 2010 03:10 AM (uWFQc)
41
You know what won't stand in my land? A child dying because his parents were unable to afford the care that he needs. Maybe this bill will help put an end to that. So honestly, what's the big deal? I have really been trying to wrap my head around the anger, and the thing I keep coming up with is... government bad. Beyond the odd notion that the govt. can't do anything right? What's your problem with universal healthcare?
Posted by: KGE at March 23, 2010 05:35 AM (YwNA8)
42
If I were a doctor or listening to these ignorant progressive twits prattle on that health care is a right, that people have a right to my time, a right to my work, a right to my life, I would hand a sign on my office door that said "Practice Closed. I will not be a slave."
Then I'd buy a nice lawnmower and go into landscaping. CASH ONLY.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at March 23, 2010 07:44 AM (R7LgM)
43
We have a war now, should this become law. The little liberal weenies who have been crying about illegal wars over seas are about to have a real reason to cry. This shall not stand in my land.
Never.
"My land" is your mom's basement, right?
Posted by: Tracy at March 23, 2010 09:19 AM (XzaKD)
44
Who pays for free ER care for the uninsured?
Local taxpayers. In Palm Beach county FL, service providers are reimbursed by the taxpayers ~$160M/yr.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at March 23, 2010 09:52 AM (ItKkr)
45
At least this site allows non-wingnuts to post. The other brave wingnut sites(I'm looking at you Redstate) block any comments that they don't like. So brave and tough. So where's the revolution wingnuts? "Don't tread on me" well you been stomped! So do something about it. We know you're all talk because repubs don't keep their word on anything. Plus you're not brave people- hence dodging the draft all the time and having gay sex in airport bathrooms. I'd say exhibit 1 on repub toughness is bush reading "My Pet Goat" after he was told of the attacks on the twin towers. I love all the tyranny talk over healthcare but you were all silent when bush fired US Attorneys, Wiretapped US citizens,Medicare part D, lied us into war etc. I love the screaming about the cost when you were silent about Billions in Cash sent over to Iraq where it was promptly lost. Try to get your little heads around this-
losing everything you own because you happened to get sick is the height of tyranny. And passing a bill into law when you have been elected is not tyranny. It's called democracy.
Posted by: Growuprepubs at March 23, 2010 06:00 PM (0/zd5)
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If there is no right to health care, how is there a right to life? I guess I have a right to life unless I get really sick then I have a right to die? If there is no right to the basic necessities of life...like food, water, shelter, and health care, then there is no right to life. If I am a woman I should be free to have an abortion because the fetus, even if you consider it a legal person, has no right to life and no right to use my body for its nurishment and development. Sorry didn't mean to get into the abortion debate here, but seriously how can there be a right to life, without the right to the bare necessities to maintain life?
Posted by: KR at March 23, 2010 06:29 PM (sGtp+)
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Lol - if these Fascists had any guts to 'em they'd pick up a weapon and steal from American citizens face-to-face. Instead, they cower behind their Kenyan messiah's statist apparatus and call their theft "a universal right", "compassion", blah blah. CS Lewis had it right - villains who commit crimes "for the common good" are by far the most loathsome sort.
Posted by: Nine-of-Diamonds at March 24, 2010 10:01 AM (1fRyx)
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"We have a war now, should this become law. The little liberal weenies who have been crying about illegal wars over seas are about to have a real reason to cry. This shall not stand in my land.
Never. "
Riiiight. Try it. I dare you. Double dare. I might be a progressive but I am quite ready for you.
Posted by: CJ at March 24, 2010 01:29 PM (fJTqC)
49
"We have a war now, should this become law. The little liberal weenies who have been crying about illegal wars over seas are about to have a real reason to cry. This shall not stand in my land.
Never. "
Hardee Har Har!
Bring it Odious!
Posted by: Stagger Lee at March 24, 2010 04:46 PM (cWuKN)
50
Riiiight. Try it. I dare you. Double dare. I might be a progressive but I am quite ready for you.
What is this - a middle school playground? Takes a real man to threaten other posters over the 'net.
Posted by: Nine-of-Diamonds at March 27, 2010 12:28 PM (Eg9Id)
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Be Sure Thank your Congressional Reps For Obamacare
The votes are in, and Obamacare passed using the so-called "nuclear option" of a reconciliation vote, without a single Republican in favor of the bill, and 34 Democrats voting against our slide into tyranny.
The New York
Times has publicized a
helpful list of who cast their votes for continued freedom and who voted to force you into socialized medicine, raise your taxes, and create more unemployment.
Be sure you thank them in person.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:36 PM
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1
I had no idea that to pass a bill in America it must be supported by at least a single Republican. Where is that in the Constitution?
Posted by: salvage at March 22, 2010 08:13 AM (Gk2oj)
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Strawman alert. Nobody said a bill had to be supported by both parties.
However, common sense would dictate that $2.4 trillion in new spending would have popular support and the means to pay for it. This bill has neither.
By the way, you can thank those Democrats who didn't vote for it but don't ever give them your vote again. This rogue party hell bent on giving us a bankrupt socialist state needs to be ejected from power.
Posted by: George at March 22, 2010 09:25 AM (WA19M)
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I did, in fact, write to my Congressman this very morning, thanking him for taking the courageous stand to vote for this legislation.
Posted by: Dude at March 23, 2010 12:05 PM (5gxhz)
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My suggestion is that since the Democrats now own both health care and higher education we direct all future complaints about the level of service to their offices and I do mean all complaints.
Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at March 23, 2010 02:00 PM (TWQoA)
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Many of the Democrats who voted No waited until it was clear the votes were there to pass the bill before making their announcement. They are not to be trusted.
In addition to calling your Congressman or Senator every time you have a headache or stub a toe, call them about every problem at the local college, too. They bought both industries, so let them handle all possible complaints.
I am also writing my Archbishop. It is time to deny communion to all the Catholics who voted for this bill.
Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at March 23, 2010 02:12 PM (TWQoA)
6
I live in Boehner's district, but I plan on thanking him anyway, for his hard work against the bill...
Posted by: Casey at March 25, 2010 04:09 PM (8STY7)
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"Hell No You Can't"
John Boehner Sums up the problems with Obamacare.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:45 PM
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I listened to Boehner, here is my summation of his speech.... WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Posted by: KGE at March 23, 2010 10:37 AM (YwNA8)
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You will be the Boo Hoo come January when y when your health premiums go up by 3X.
Posted by: Marc at March 23, 2010 04:59 PM (Zoziv)
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NOW Freaking Over Obama Executive Order; Stupak's Political Cover Compromised in an Hour
Every Obama promise comes with an expiration date. Stupak's promised executive order is dying already.
National Organization for Women President Terry O'Neill issued a statement Sunday afternoon slamming President Obama, saying that he had broken his faith with women by agreeing to issue an executive order that prohibits federal funding for abortions.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Nah, you're reading this wrong - this is just additional political cover. By pretending outrage at the meaningless executive order, it makes it easier to act like it actually did something to the formerly pro-life Dims.
Posted by: Skip at March 21, 2010 06:36 PM (vazZb)
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And Obama can simply rescind the executive order as soon as Stupak is no longer required.
Posted by: ArmedGeek at March 21, 2010 07:13 PM (Yf8V2)
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There will be order to rescind. Once the bill is passed an signed there is no need for the EO or Stupak.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at March 21, 2010 08:00 PM (R7LgM)
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Exactly. An Executive Order cannot override legislation. Stupak is either dumber than a bag of hammers (unlikely) or believes that this fiction might give him enough cover to be re-elected. And, if he is defeated, I am sure there is a nice position waiting for him in Bammy's administration. Cowards and traitors fit right in there.
The only problem is that the GOP will prevent Stupak from ever being confirmed.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 21, 2010 10:23 PM (I5shO)
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Those Who Refuse to Learn From History...
Every once in a while I'll get an email or a link to the words of Kitty Werthmann, an Austrian-born naturalized American citizen that watched Austrians give themselves to Hitler's creeping fascism, only too recognize their mistake after their freedoms were extinguished.
Today, her warning is haunting, and seems to echo what we see
unfolding before us.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
05:16 PM
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With apologies to George Santayana:
Those who CAN remember the past are condemned
to live among idiots repeating it.
Treg
Posted by: Tregonsee at March 21, 2010 05:44 PM (zeGL3)
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perhaps you failed to notice that ms werthmann was writing during the bush administration, who foisted upon us the stalinistic "patriot" act, which authorizes:
searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the FBI to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order; and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional
now, that is a truly frightening erosion of the constitutional rights of american citizens
Posted by: tacitus voltaire at March 23, 2010 12:33 PM (aor+S)
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I'm sorry Mr. Voltaire, but none of things you mentioned even remotely approach the violation, nay, the RAPING, of our liberty that is "allowing 26 year olds to stay on their parent's insurance."
Hitler wanted to make the limit 25, so these fasco-dems are WORSE THAN HITLER!!!!!!
Don't even get me started on the generous tax breaks to small businesses. Can you say Gulag?
Posted by: Beg2Differ at March 24, 2010 01:44 PM (KTL7T)
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Stupak Joins Scheme Allowing Pro-Abortion Obamacare to Pass
Bark Stupak and his so-called "pro-life" Democrats are going to try to pull a fast one on the American people, and will vote for the pro-abortion Obamacare bill.
Health reform holdout Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan announced Sunday that he and fellow anti-abortion Democrats have reached an agreement with the White House to defuse the controversy over abortion in the health care bill and will now vote "yes" – which Stupak said gives Democrats enough votes to pass the sweeping overhaul by day’s end.
The move came just after the White House announced that President Barack Obama will sign an executive order reaffirming a ban on federal funding of abortions.
Stupak's "out" is a lie,
which he knows in advance of the vote. Both the President and the Congress know—and have always known—that an executive order cannot override written law.
The scheme was concocted to allow Stupak and his allies to claim they were acting in good faith when they cast their votes for Obamacare, even though it finances abortion. The truth is that Stupak and his allies know that the Executive Order will be quickly struck down by the courts.
Stupak and the rest of the pro-life Democrats have abandoned their professed life-long ideals and principles in order to placate their leaders.
May history and judge them harshly for their cowardice.
Update:
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH)
calls out the deception:
"The law of the land trumps any Executive Order, which can be reversed or altered at the stroke of a pen by this or any subsequent President without any congressional approval or notice. Moreover, while an Executive Order can direct members of the executive branch, it cannot direct the private sector.
"Because of Roe v. Wade, courts have interpreted the decision as a statutory mandate that the government must provide federal funding for elective abortion in through federal programs. In other words, no Executive Order or regulation can override a statutory mandate unless Congress passes a law that prohibits federal funding from being used in this manner."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
04:29 PM
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No one who votes for this bill is pro-life. Nor can they be considered neutral on the issue. They cannot even claim to be that mealy-mouthed weasel word, pro-choice. They are pro-abortion. They can squirm and wiggle and make excuses for the rest of their lives. It does not matter at all.
They will say that "community health clinics" or "community health centers" don't perform abortions. How long do they expect Planned Parenthood abortion mills to begin calling themselves that? They know it. They'll lie but they know it.
If you live in a district represented by a "pro-life" Congressman who votes yes on this disaster, start calling your friends and neighbors tonight. Start knocking on doors to tell everyone who lives near you tomorrow. It will take some time to raise funds for the ads, so start now.
Stupak and his ilk have betrayed their constituents. Unless those constituents are sheep, they must respond.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at March 21, 2010 05:48 PM (4ENii)
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"No one who votes for this bill is pro-life."
Nor pro-liberty. They are slavers.
Amazing how thoroughly the Democrats have returned to their roots.
Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 22, 2010 06:05 AM (n2wxa)
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Reconciliation Off the Table if Senate Bill Fails to Pass?
Seems to good to be true, but is the House reconciliation bill dead on arrival? That what the Senate Republicans have claimed via email:
BREAKING: “FIX” BILL MAY NOT ADVANCE IN SENATE
Senate Democrats Refuse Bi-partisan Meeting With Parliamentarian Until After House Votes
WASHINGTON DC – Senate Democrats have balked at a bi-partisan meeting with the Senate Parliamentarian to discuss a rule violation that could doom the entire House reconciliation proposal.
DON STEWART, McCONNELL SPOKESMAN: "Republicans have been trying to set up a meeting with Senate Democrats since yesterday to discuss this fatal point of order but have been met with nothing but silence. We suspect Democrats are slow walking us so as to have the House vote first. Since Senate Democrats refuse to meet with us and the Parliamentarian, we’ve informed our colleagues in the House that we believe the bill they’re now considering violates the clear language of Section 310g of the Congressional Budget Act, and the entire reconciliation bill is subject to a point of order and rejection in the Senate should it pass the House."
BACKGROUND
DEMOCRAT LEADERSHIP RELEASE: "The Congressional Budget Office estimate of the health care legislation shows an increase in Social Security revenues… CBO projects that the resulting increase in wages will generate $29 billion in additional FICA contributions to the Social Security Trust Fund." ("Health Care Reform Update," Office of Rep. Steny Hoyer, 3/21/10)
CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET ACT: "LIMITATION ON CHANGES TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY ACT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it shall not be in order in the Senate or the House of Representatives to consider any reconciliation bill or reconciliation resolution reported pursuant to a concurrent resolution on the budget agreed to under section 301 or 304, or a joint resolution pursuant to section 258C of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985, or any amendment thereto or conference report thereon, that contains recommendations with respect to the old-age, survivors, and disability insurance program established under title II of the Social Security Act." (Congressional Budget Act Of 1974, Sec. 310g, P. 31)
This is only noteworthy if the House can't pass the Senate Bill. If Pelosi gets the votes to pass the Senate Bill—which is very much in doubt at this moment—then Obamacare will go to the President and be law by nightfall.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:35 PM
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Pelosi is Falling Short?
The so-called "conventional wisdom" on today's health care rationing vote (Obamacare) seems to be indicating that if the pro-life Democratic block of Bart Stupak cannot be bought off in the final hours before the vote, then Nancy Pelosi will fall 2-3 votes short of passing Obamacare.
Two Tennessee Demcorat that have decided to cast no votes have put the Speaker in "
a major bind."
This now running in red on Drudge:
FLASH: Senate Republicans found a provision in the new House health care bill that likely makes it ineligible for expedited 'reconciliation' procedures in the Senate. Dems refused to meet with GOP and Parliamentarian.... Developing....
It also appears&mdash according to a Drudge teaser—that House Democrats are gun-shy of being the deciding vote. Drudge has Pelosi saying to Steny Hoyer, "'Steny, we have to get to 217. None of these members wants to be the deciding vote'."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:40 PM
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Of course they did. These buffoonish funhouse reflections of the KKK think the entire universe revolves around their race.
Posted by: CFM at March 21, 2010 06:51 PM (1N8nO)
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Did Black Representative Lie About Racial Slurs?
The Dana Show posts video of John Lewis (D-GA) through a crowd of Tea Party protesters yesterday, and the audio suggests that nothing remotely like a racial slur was hurled at him.
They video is only 22 seconds long, but in our camera-saturated society, other videos will pop up today of Lewis, Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC), and Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) going through the crowd as well.
I'm sure that if recordings prove that no slurs were directed at them, Lewis, Clyburn, and Cleaver will contritely apologize for slandering the protesters.
Yeah, right.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:29 AM
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Wasn't it just the other day that Obama and the Dems were whining that people were focusing on the process and everything else other than the actual legislation? Yet, here they are making shat up (again) in order to not focus on the bill themselves.
Posted by: William Teach at March 21, 2010 09:41 AM (7yTel)
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Several things are wrong with this picture. Why is the guy walking through an angry opposition crowd. It is much easier to get to the capital underground. Little known to most people, there is an extensive network of transportation under the streets. A congressman can leave his office, take an elevator to the basement, board an open air subway and go directly to the voting floor. I know because I rode all over the place with my family by just acting like I was someone and explored ever corner of the underground.
I feel that black are doing themselves a bad turn here. This is the first black president and what does he do, he tries to socialize the country. For those who grew up in the 50's it makes seems to vendicate the concerns of our grandparents. Then you take blacks going around reminding us constantly about there race. I know few Asians, Orientals, or Hispanics that do the same. Maybe blacks should start living in a color blind society like the rest of us and get over the past. We can all point a difficulties that our forefathers had at one time or another. If you dewell on it you will not move forward.
Posted by: David at March 21, 2010 10:47 AM (jHK8i)
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Fox cable news is reporting this as a fact, the reps were called the "n" word, one of them was spat upon and all needed the help of police to get away from the hatefilled conservative mob, Barney Frank also had some allegations but I never listen to him.
That video tells a different tale, I hope more vids are found so the truth will be seen.
Posted by: duncan at March 21, 2010 10:51 AM (YmgNG)
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I have thought about this and can't see why would should treat these politicians as anything but trash. Why are we so worried about being polite to them? Time to get mean.
Posted by: David at March 21, 2010 11:35 AM (jHK8i)
Posted by: No Man at March 21, 2010 11:57 AM (EYMk+)
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If the shoe fits... and in this case it does.
Posted by: emdfl at March 21, 2010 12:00 PM (vwRFo)
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From what I have read, one of the mistakes that the Jews made in the 30's was to be polite and try and get along. Lets not make the same mistake.
Posted by: David at March 21, 2010 12:45 PM (jHK8i)
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I think blacks show more racism to whites than the other way around.
Posted by: Rick at March 21, 2010 12:57 PM (GmIEI)
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I just found a site called Washington Monthly. This site is definitely anti-white and anti-South. What is the deal?
Posted by: David at March 21, 2010 01:29 PM (jHK8i)
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I was at the driveway when Rep. Cummings and group came out of the Capital and walked to the offices. They were booed and gotten shouts of "Kill the Bill!" like you saw in the video, but no slurs. Racism charges is now the last resort of the scoundrel.
Posted by: bgwillia at March 21, 2010 01:45 PM (3Ce/V)
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They heard what they wanted to hear. Democrats have no ideas, no morals and no standards. They have only the discredited race and gender preferences and bribery to gain votes.
The media acts like a propaganda organ of the Democratic Party and will report the fantasies of Democratic politicians as fact. But the media spent every bit of credibility they ever had to push Obama over the top. No one believes them anymore, and rightfully so.
The Democrats and the media will always hear what they want to hear. The rest of us listen.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at March 21, 2010 03:09 PM (4ENii)
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Sure. It's all a lie based on one 22 second video.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/23/clyburn-racist-faxes-imag_n_509365.html
Posted by: CJ at March 23, 2010 06:07 PM (jsQWZ)
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March 20, 2010
Same Liberals that Routinely Use Sex Slur Against Protestors Get Vapors Over Dubious Allegations That Coarse Language Was Used Towards Their Congressmen
After more than a year of hearing liberals spit out the derogatory word "teabagger" at Tea Party protestors, I couldn't give a crap if a handful of Democrats claimed—without any corroboration—that bad language was hurled their way.
Just be thankful it wasn't the tar and feathers they deserve.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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"Tar and feathers"??? I'm buying stock in Tractor Supply. I figure that there's gonna' be a run on pitchforks and rope. They'll be lucky to get by on tar, feathers and rode out of town on a rail!
Posted by: diogenes online at March 20, 2010 08:13 PM (Uapqz)
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OMG!!! It was in the Huff Po, so it absolutely, positively, without any doubt, must be true.
Posted by: TimothyJ at March 20, 2010 10:38 PM (IKKIf)
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"Course Language"??? How about "Coarse Language"!! Sorry, it's the spellchecker in me!!! Keep up the great blog, I read you every day!!!!
Posted by: B. Wilson at March 20, 2010 10:52 PM (nf4Ap)
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Funny, if there were audio proof it would be all over the air waves by now. Not a peep other than "Supposed" accounts. I've watched the youtube with audio and not one N-Word was heard. And the MSM runs the story as FACT, where the journalistic integrity? Yep MIA.. I posted the video on my site.
Posted by: Robert at March 21, 2010 03:26 AM (IEh7K)
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COnsidering that Barney is in fact a male whore-master as well as a real "teabagger", I don't understand the problem here. Of course, I'd just call him a traitor to this country and be done.
Posted by: emdfl at March 21, 2010 12:03 PM (vwRFo)
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Not a peep other than "Supposed" accounts.
Posted by: tylor at March 26, 2010 08:54 AM (Ze1q4)
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Ready to Riot?
I ran out on some errands this morning, and noticed several things.
The gun store downtown was doing what I suspect was unusually brisk business for an early Saturday morning outside of hunting season. This same gun store's parking lot was overflowing mid-afternoon yesterday shortly after 3:30 PM, with traffic filling the lot, the nearby on-street parking filled, and overflow parking spilling into the gravel lot next door.
I've also seen a minivan with a warning/threat against Obamacare written in red paint on the windows (I didn't get a great look at it as it was moving in the opposite direction, but I got the gist of it).
This is hardly the equivalent of militiamen forming on the village green, but there seems to be a distinct undercurrent of frustration and rage building against the federal government in general, the tricks of Democratic Party in specific, and tomorrow's Obamacare may be the catalyst.
I don't sense any organization, but strong sentiment appears to be brewing. Is anyone else seeing similar behavior where they live?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Yes. Break their windows and then break their heads.
Posted by: twolaneflash at March 20, 2010 10:52 AM (svkhS)
2
Same here. Just got back from a gun show and the business in ammo and handguns seemed quite busy. Long waits for the background checks. I've been feeling the rumblings in the area for some time now.
Posted by: a6bogie at March 20, 2010 11:00 AM (0DrT9)
3
I sense more of a general feeling of resolve; a sense that something is coming so we might as well get ready. You're right, this isn't organized. It's organic. We are faced with a government that has in so many ways violated "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God"; and this is having the affect of a call to arms. The people feel these abuses in their gut and in their soul. Even those that are not particularly political sense what is happening.
The real danger is if a leader emerges that tries to pervert this into something evil. It's happened so many other times in history and could happen again.
Pray that we find a peaceful way to return our country to its original intent. The resort to arms will open the door to the destruction of our Constitution and the loss of our freedom if everything doesn't go just right. Think French Revolution and Robespierre; Lincoln and the Union invasion.
"These are the times that try men's souls."
Posted by: Tom Usher at March 20, 2010 11:23 AM (OiuZg)
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I've worried for a while that a replay of the Boston Massacre is possible. We’ve already seen that some Congressional staffers are not very bright when it comes to dealing with protestors. So far in the few cases where the cops have been called they have been cool. As the protestors become increasingly frustrated it becomes more likely that one of these days the wrong cop will get the call from a panicked staff flunky and the situation will escalate out of control.
Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at March 20, 2010 12:51 PM (HwBga)
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Individual actions and beliefs are outliers to me. The critical thing right now is for all conservatives to nurture this outrage for next Nov to go after all of these leftards. Motivation is what it is all about. And being motivated enough to donate money and time to conservative candidates who promise to end this creeping socialism by eviscerating Obamacare and impeaching Congresscritters like Wrangel.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 20, 2010 02:08 PM (O8ebz)
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the anger I have witnessed is not a good anger. It is a supressed anger toward obama and his clones to try and take over this country and its freedom loving citizens. this is a dangerous anger, that could explode at anytime with any spark from the progressives to set it off. It almost feels like obama and his gang of thieves are poking the big bear, just trying to get a reaction. I do hope and pray that nobody gets hurt during these un-american activities being carried out by this administration. look out socialist,progressives and communists..november is just around the corner....
Posted by: el dorado hillbilly at March 20, 2010 03:28 PM (PNibH)
7
I've heard and seen a lot of folks talking about armed revolt. Nothing organized, but an awful lot of people no longer believe our Government represents us and that it has become a threat to their liberty and their lives.
I've heard even more talking about voting to replace everyone they can.
I wonder if this is how folks felt in 1860?
Orion
Posted by: Orion at March 20, 2010 04:07 PM (UnCdA)
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Rioting in the streets is "Plan B" for Obama's mob.
The tax recipients now outnumber the tax payers. If the latter won't give it up on April 15, they are going to do some bleeding. One way or another, they are going to give it up. Burn, baby, burn!
With cigarettes at seven bucks a pack, how the hell is someone on welfare and foo-stamps supposed to afford health insurance? Huh?
Posted by: Zeek at March 20, 2010 05:04 PM (CGJ71)
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I was at the hair salon today. I tried to talk quietly but everyone who overheard me broke in and started talking about it, SO mad. That has never happened before. We're all getting tired of being so quiet. The violence thing isn't good though.
Posted by: Tea Party at Perrysburg at March 20, 2010 07:29 PM (gu8wR)
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CY - I kind of saw this coming a year ago. Always considered Obama the MOST dangerous person in the world. In a post back then on this or someother blog I reminded readers of Kent State. In 1970 I was in college and campi all across the country were boiling over because of Viet Nam. This time I see the same powerful emotions and disgust with our corupt government.
Yes it is fractured and leaderless now, but think of the impact of scenes of U.S. cops and soldiers shooting at U.S. citizens. I don't think a little law called "posse comitatus" would get in Obama's way - hell - he hasn't let The Constitution deter him at all.
I fear this will not end well.
For all of you young enough to not know what Kent State is - Google it and fast forward 40 years and tell me that it CAN'T happen today!
Pray this ends peacefully - for YOUR sake!
Posted by: mixitup at March 20, 2010 08:43 PM (Z21cb)
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Can't hurt to be prepared; I am only 2 hours away from the Mexican border in southern California and tensions are running really high over the upcoming amnesty push, too, not to mention the health care debacle.
Posted by: MissTammy at March 20, 2010 10:06 PM (GXLjK)
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I'd like to throw out a comment for consideration by the growing number of patriots worriedly stocking up on guns and ammo. Yes, we face a real threat of tyranny from Obama and his minions. Don't shoot; not yet. Let's first move action to the state legislatures. Not by adopting meaningless "opt-out" measures that won't get anywhere in the courts, as several states are now considering. Instead, the time is here for the states to reassert themselves in the manner set forth in our constitution. Since FDR the federal leviathan has treated the 9th and 10th amendments like so much toilet paper. Two-thirds of the states may demand a constitutional convention to restore the states to their rightful place, and to curb the continuning expansion of the federal government into every aspect of our lives. ConCon Now!
Posted by: Spartan79 at March 20, 2010 11:06 PM (and0j)
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Like Red I work with "true believers" and they still believe in that pot of Obama cash and wonder when they get a check for their fair share, they are tired of waiting, I am almost ready to live for a year alone , food and wood stored up, I pray for America and I pray for peace.
Those Obama folk cause me to worry, when they finally understand that they will remain poor I expect a huge explosion of violence from them.
Posted by: duncan at March 20, 2010 11:45 PM (YmgNG)
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Are all y'all who punished the Republicans in the last election by not voting happy yet?
Posted by: Locomotive Breath at March 21, 2010 07:18 AM (WV70Z)
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House Dems Claim Memo that Accurately Reflects Their Plot Is a Fake
Yesterday blogs and other news outlets posted a memo provided by Republicans that was said to have been circulated by Democrats. The memo outlined a scheme to lie about (or direct attention away from) the true cost of Obamacare, and then pass separate laws later in the year that would drive the overall cost of the plan even higher.
Talking Points Memo is being
very careful handling this, and they should; whether or not the memo originated from a Democratic staffer or strategist or was a dirty trick is utterly irrelevant. The source isn't what matters. The memo accurately reflects known positions of previous iterations of Obamacare that Democrats were begrudgingly forced to temporarily drop to get enough votes to make the bill passable.
It is entirely credible—and in fact likely—that Nancy Pelosi's House leadership are plotting to do precisely what the memo outlines.
Interestingly enough, Republicans won't cite the source for the memo. Democrats are claiming that it is a fake generated by Republicans.
It is more likely that the memo is a sanitized version of actual Democratic plans, passed along to Republicans by House Democrats opposed to the costs, plots, and rationing associated with the dishonest socialist attempt to grab for themselves power that rightfully belongs to the people.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:57 AM
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1
Let's see if "fake but accurate" works as well for the GOP as it did for the Dems.
Posted by: MichigammeDave at March 20, 2010 08:17 AM (xixC1)
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Well, the nice thing about this memo is that it is actually accurate, regardless of its veracity as an actual document.
The Bush ANG papers, in actuality, were fake and inaccurate.
Posted by: ECM at March 20, 2010 11:49 AM (nYKDd)
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The memo is almost certainly accurate and reflects the political calculus of the Democrats. Once Obamacare is passed, then restoring the $520 billion in Medicare cuts will rammed down the GOP's throat by demonizing the GOP as being "for drastic Medicare cuts" in the Democrat media. This is an obvious strategy to prevent the seniors from voting out every Democrat in federal office next fall.
Expansion of government, greater opportunities for graft and control, and greater control over individuals. As far as Democrats are concerned what's not to like? And as long as they have much of the press in their pockets, who is going to call them on it?
Posted by: iconoclast at March 20, 2010 02:25 PM (O8ebz)
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And anyone from Michigan knows how bad Democrat/liberal policies will damage the economy. Promoting those policies for the rest of the nation is ethically the same as sending individuals with infectious diseases into the general population to get people sick.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 20, 2010 02:27 PM (O8ebz)
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Politico has pulled the memo, but TPM has it here - http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/documents/2010/03/disputed-memo-purporting-to-be-dem-plan-for-medicare-change.php?page=1
Posted by: Gray Wolf at March 20, 2010 11:23 PM (wpKzZ)
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March 19, 2010
Passing Obamacare Will Cost American Jobs
That is the only honest takeaway you can have reading this article from Chicago Breaking Business News:
Caterpillar Inc. said the health-care overhaul legislation being considered by the U.S. House of Representatives would increase the company's health-care costs by more than $100 million in the first year alone.
In a letter Thursday to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio, Caterpillar urged lawmakers to vote against the plan "because of the substantial cost burdens it would place on our shareholders, employees and retirees."
Caterpillar, the world's largest construction machinery manufacturer by sales, said it's particularly opposed to provisions in the bill that would expand Medicare taxes and mandate insurance coverage. The legislation would require nearly all companies to provide health insurance for their employees or face large fines.
The Peoria-based company said these provisions would increase its insurance costs by at least 20 percent, or more than $100 million, just in the first year of the health-care overhaul program.
"We can ill-afford cost increases that place us at a disadvantage versus our global competitors," said the letter signed by Gregory Folley, vice president and chief human resources officer of Caterpillar. "We are disappointed that efforts at reform have not addressed the cost concerns we've raised throughout the year."
Business executives have long complained that the options offered for covering 32 million uninsured Americans would result in higher insurance costs for those employers that already provide coverage. Opponents have stepped up their attacks in recent days as the House moves closer toward a vote on the Senate version of the health-care legislation.
If Obama passes:
- Companies that already pay health insurance will have to pay higher rates, meaning less profitability, higher costs, and fewer jobs
- Companies that don't currently pay health insurance will have to pay high health insurance rates, meaning less profitability, higher costs, and fewer jobs.
- Companies that cannot withstand the high costs of forced health care will simply shut down.
In all three situations, job loss—or at least the absence of job creation—is a certainty.
If Democrats really want to save or create jobs they'll vote against Obamacare.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:27 AM
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It will cost "private sector" jobs.
But add lots of "government sector" jobs. Just at the Federal level, over 100 new agencies! Thousands more IRS agents, too, with more powers than ever. Think dealing with an insurance claim is hard now?
Who knows how many State and local employees?
Posted by: John A at March 19, 2010 02:35 PM (LEb+F)
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"So what?" - Barrack Obama.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at March 19, 2010 08:44 PM (FJRFk)
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Fraud, Treason, and Violence
12 hours after first reading Jeffrey Anderson's revelation that the real ten-year costs of Obamacare, I'm having a hard time getting my mind around the scale of the duplicity:
To see the bill's true first-decade costs, we need to start the clock when the costs would actually start in any meaningful way: in 2014. The CBO says that Obamacare would cost $2.0 trillion in the bill's real first decade (from 2014 to 2023) — and much more in the decades to come.
But $2.0 trillion wouldn't be the total ten-year costs. Instead, that would merely be the "gross cost of coverage provisions." Based on earlier incarnations of the proposed overhaul, the total costs would be about a third higher (the exact number can't be gleaned from the CBO's analysis, which is only preliminary and is not a full scoring) — making the total price-tag between $2.5 and $3 trillion over the bill's real first decade.
"...making the total price-tag between $2.5 and $3 trillion over the bill's real first decade."
Don't bother trying to wrap your mind around the specific figures involved, because they are far too large to be viewed in anything but the abstract .
Instead, focus on what the Democratic Party has done to conceal those numbers. Focus on what they've done in order to lie to you.
Steny Hoyer and House Democrats crowed yesterday morning when they revealed that the Congressional Budget Office scoring of Obamacare put the cost of the program at "just" $940 billion.
What House Democrats and their allies in the media will not tell you is that the CBO is constrained to using strict instructions and parameters provided by Nancy Pelosi and the House leadership.
As
briefly noted yesterday, the CBO was handcuffed by House Democrats, and forced to use bogus figures and timelines and other unrealistic constraints as the Democratic Party carried out an orchestrated campaign of fraud unprecedented in cost. Sadly, these Democrats dragged the non-partisan CBO into the scheme as unwilling accomplice.
The real coss of Obamacare over ten years is $2.5 to $3 trillion, or $1.5 to $2 trillion more than the Democratic Party is claiming.
Now, let's make this next point very, very clear.
Barack Obama knew in advance the real cost of the legislation that bears his name. He embraced the lie, has lied, and will continue to lie to your face about the cost.
Nancy Pelosi knows the real cost of the legislation, and along with other Democratic leaders in the House, was instrumental in purposefully deceiving the American people by hiding this cost.
Likewise, Harry Reid and other Senate Democratic leaders were well aware of the conspiracy to deceive the American people, well before the scheme went into motion.
The 44th President of the United States Barack Hussein Obama, 60th Speaker of the House Nancy Patricia D'Alesandro Pelosi, and 24th Senate Majority Leader Harry Mason Reid conspired to hide the true cost of Obamacare, and have attempted to defraud the people of the United States. They think you are idiots. They think they can fool you. They think you'll take it lying down.
And maybe they are right. So they've made a calculated risk.
Obama, Pelosi, Reid and their accomplices know that they will never see the inside of a court of law for perpetrating this fraud. Hell...
they write the law. They always provide themselves with an out.
But what is legal and what is moral are often quite different things, and never are the two further apart than when we're discussing politics.
The fraud Obama, Pelosi, and Reid and engaged in is a clear economic threat to the future of the United States, one which may
bankrupt the nation. Their attempt to fundamentally transform our Republic through trickery and deceit are no less an affront to this nation that was the deception carried out by General Benedict Arnold when he attempted to hand over West Point to the British.
Does their fraud and conspiracy meet the
legal definition of treason? No documents or conversations currently known to the public could support such a charge. But I defy anyone to proclaim that a conspiracy of politicians to seize one-sixth of the most powerful economy in the history of the planet by means of deception and lies is not morally a capital crime.
Nor do I suspect the Founding Fathers would have stood idly by as the Republic they envisioned was subverted into a lesser state where people became unwilling subjects to a greedy and ever-hungry government.
They would fight. They would kill, if they had to. They did.
I cannot forecast the future, and do not know if Sunday's vote on Obamacare will bring about a momentary respite from encroaching tyranny of our present government or usher us ever faster towards the precipice.
Like you, though, I am a student of history. We know that tyrants are never sated by small bites of freedom. They will continue to consume liberties until they are driven off, are killed, or are victorious.
Violence is in our nation's future. It remains to be seen if it will be violence towards tyrants, or violence towards liberty.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:31 AM
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If you're not afraid, then you're not paying attention. I fear that our Imperial Congress and President are not paying attention...
Posted by: diogenes online at March 19, 2010 10:13 AM (2MrBP)
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It remains to be seen if it will be violence towards tyrants, or violence towards liberty.
Both. With the violence against liberty preceding it.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 19, 2010 11:11 AM (O8ebz)
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on a positive note some states have allready started to rebel against this soft tyranny from the feds.
Posted by: rumcrook™ at March 19, 2010 11:25 AM (60WiD)
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The drums of war are beating both here and Across the River. We are come to a crossroads. If Congress and the Executive Office succeed in their theft of freedom I am certain that Justice will also go along. They abandoned us long ago. At that point we will have insurrection. Belize is looking better and better. It is that or beome the slayer of my fellow citizens in a battle of bullets and ideals. I am so angry at our Senators and Reps for allowing it to come to this.
Posted by: Odins Acolyte at March 19, 2010 11:29 AM (brIiu)
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Appeasement will ALWAYS end in violence.
For how many years have the conservatives appeased the liberals? For how long have the libertarians appeased the totalitarians?
We have been comfortable enough to "spare a little" liberalism and tyranny. We appeased them. This was predictable.
The ONLY question is...are we up to the fight?
And can we win the fight without bloodshed?
Posted by: Less at March 19, 2010 11:53 AM (PGXeZ)
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On the Beck show, they were warning against violence. It seems that people are beginning to be so frustrated that the message is at least getting to some of the media.
I feel that all conservatives web sites should begin to publish the home addresses of all the players in the pagent and take the message to them first hand. They don't seem to understand the will of the majority of America. This whole effort is being driven by 20% of our population that has a dreamy vision of a socialist eutopia. They are able to pull along another 20% who don't understand the process at all but are used to the government taking care of them. The majority of people, particularily those that actuall work and produce are not being listened to.
Many Dems and a few Repubs seem to think this is a game of win and lose. To me this represents the health of our economy and the loss of freedom. Not one single person will get any more insurance or health care than they are now. In fact, most will loose.
I disagree with the media. Violence should be a consideration, particularily as major policy is being decided with manipulation of rules and lack of definitive voting procedures.
Posted by: David at March 19, 2010 12:02 PM (jHK8i)
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My grandfather told me when I was a youngster that Civil War was coming again. He said this time wont be North vs South. It will be good vs evil. This was right after they took prayer out of public schools. I fear my grandfather was correct. We have appeased the liberals, the blacks and the illegals. A show down seems to be inevitable. Both my greatgrandfatherx2 and x3 survived Antietam and several other major battles. I hope my son and I dont have to follow suit. The upcoming elections should be very telling. We are a very divided nation on ideals at the moment. It just seems that when the nation is in peril we could all pull together, at least for a while. Sadly this just doesnt seem to be the case. The left is determined to undermine and destroy all that we are about. If the call to arms comes one should be ready.
Posted by: capt26thga at March 19, 2010 06:20 PM (VxObL)
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The arguments I have made when contacting members of the House have focused more on the broader issues at stake than on the content of the bill. For me I see no validity or value in debating the merits of this clause or that, or arguing about the contained budget gimmicks and the defect impact of the bill. I don't give a damn if the bill funds abortion or not.
I have said:
I do not want the federal government to take away my freedom to decide how best to care for myself and my family. I believe those decisions are the provence of the individual. Further I do not believe that the Federal Government as established by the Constitution of the United States has the authority to mandate that I buy health insurance any more than it has the authority to mandate that I buy peanut butter. Any legislation or legislature that attempts to do so is illegitimate.
I believe that if the House of Representatives attempts to advance this legislation using a Deem and Pass rule that they have denied every American citizen representation. This bill, in addition to it's unconstitutional mandate, contains massive regulation that are in effect a federal nationalization of the insurance industry, and equally massive increases in taxation. Such an action represents not only taxation without representation but nationalization without representation. The procedural machinations of the the Democrat House Leadership will cost the Congress the Consent of the Governed.
The first American revolution was started for less.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at March 19, 2010 06:47 PM (R7LgM)
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March 18, 2010
Actual Cost of Obamacare: $2+ Trillion
Lying. Rat. Bastards.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:47 PM
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Is there any possible way we could impeach this man(Obama) after the November elections. The breadth and scope of his total destruction of this country and it's economy is beyond belief!! In 3 more years it really may be to late.
Posted by: mixitup at March 18, 2010 09:41 PM (Z21cb)
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$2 trillion is a very conservative estimate. By the time the courts get done with it, it will have direct costs around $5 trillion with indirect costs almost beyond estimation.
Posted by: Ken Hahn at March 19, 2010 08:22 PM (rHSfY)
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Fired Teacher Hangs Obama in Effigy... In Classroom
Superintendent Frances Gallo, the administrator who fired all the teachers at Central Falls High School when they refused to work slightly longer hours to help their students (at $30/hr), found an unlikely backer in President Obama. The fired teachers will complete this semester, but will not be back in the fall.
Now, the teachers—mostly Democrats—are peeling the Obama campaign stickers off their cars, and some are doing worse. Gallo was forced to sneak into Central Falls High in the dead of night to find just how far one teacher had gone to
denounce Obama:
Gallo knew Obama's endorsement would create further uproar. She just didn't know how bad it would get.
She continued making her way through the school, clearing the first two floors. She was disheartened by the newspaper postings but relieved she hadn't found the offensive item.
One floor to go.
She climbed the steps and entered a classroom.
There it was.
"You couldn't miss it."
An Obama doll, about a foot tall, hung by its feet from the white board; the doll held a sign that said, "Fire Central Falls teachers," she says.
Racists.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I guess we can assume that their compensation boils down to much more than $30.
Posted by: megapotamus at March 18, 2010 12:18 PM (LWhHe)
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So they hung a black doll and no one is crying racism. What is the deal? She should be put in jail for the rest of her life for such an action.
Posted by: David at March 18, 2010 01:59 PM (jHK8i)
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Buyers remorse perhaps? LMAO.. hate to say we told ya so but........
Posted by: Robert at March 18, 2010 02:26 PM (IEh7K)
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They're union members. From RI.
Trust me, they'll vote Democrat in 2010. And 2012.
-Bri
Posted by: Bri at March 18, 2010 07:37 PM (ykOvo)
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Big deal. They hung Bush in effigy twice a week for 8 years.
Posted by: ck at March 19, 2010 08:16 AM (FilQu)
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CBO Numbers Cited By Dem Leadership are Bogus; Could It Backfire?
Matthew Continetti notes that Steny Hoyer to various new organizations about the CBO's health care cost estimate are speculative, based upon preliminary numbers that does not take into the account reconciliation proposal, review, and refinement.
In other words, they're crap. The media ran with Hoyer's claims without having the evidence in-hand.
Will the media hold Hoyer and his Democratic allies accountable for this subterfuge, or are they in on the fix?
And will this lie damage already faltering Democratic efforts to force through a bill that the public clearly doesn't want passed?
Update: To lie was their goal all along:
If it kicked in right away, the decade-long estimate would obviously be well into the trillions. So they simply stalled it for four years, incurring just $17 billion in costs — or 1.8 percent of the total 10-year estimate — through 2013 so that wavering Democrats could go back to their districts and tell baldfaced lies to their constituents about the pricetag. A perfect ending to this travesty.
In what can only be cast as a desperate act, the Democratic leadership is trying to convince members of their Party to out-and-out-
lie to their constituents.
I guess we'll find out Sunday if on-the-fence Dems are willing to make that lie.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:14 AM
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For those who believe, happily or not, that Obamacare will be an indestructible titan if it is passed by whatever means, I submit that it will be much, much worse in execution than even it's most voluble critics have claimed. No, 30% of docs will not retire, but plenty will, and more will adjust their practices to conserve fiscal resources simply to preserve their viability. This will result in radical primary care reductions and quickly. But even more, young genii will be less inclined to go into medicine or the now unprofitable pharma sector. Translation? The near end of medical progress in this country and since we make nearly all the medical progress for humanity, a near end of medical progress globally. Again, this will not be a slow process. The taxes, fees and fines of Obamacare go off like a bomb; suddenly and indiscriminantly. The "benefits" settle like a fall-out cloud, only four years later. Does anyone think America is going to inhabit a demolished hospital for four years just because of the lofty promises of a renovation in the future? Hmmm. If you do, you must be expecting some miraculous results from said renovation. No, this is disaster on disaster. It will benefit NO ONE except public employee unions, and them not much on net. It exposes the totalitarian nature of the Left to those most needful of the lesson: rank and file Democrats. It exposes the unsupportable fiscal fraud that has supported all the "entitlements"; SS, Medicaid, Medicare, AFDC and other lesser beasts that must be slain in any event. Our total unfunded liabilities are now in the $200t+ range. This must be faced. It is best we face it all at once so, oddly, perhaps ironically, Obama is the best man to stear us into that iceberg. Thank you Mr President!
Posted by: megapotamus at March 18, 2010 12:31 PM (LWhHe)
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The CBO scores what's in front of them...The CBO is not looking down the road, that road is what is going to run over us...LOOK AT CALIFORNIA people, you will see the path our nation is taking.
Posted by: Robert at March 18, 2010 02:25 PM (IEh7K)
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You Lie! CBO Report On Health Care Merely Garbage In, Garbage Out
Leave it to tax-and-spend liberals to trumpet a $940 billion boondoggle as some sort of cost-savings measure.
Especially since the numbers don't really exist.
But let's go with the lie for a moment.
Hey, if I drive competent people out of an entire sector of the economy and replace them with dim-witted drones (think TSA airport screeners with access to your most personal information), I can trumpet "savings" of a sort as well.
You just won't like the result.
Of course, the Democrats can claim deficit reduction in the CBO's numbers because the Congressional Budget Office merely calculates the data they are given; they do not weigh in on whether those figures are arrived at by honest data or data which has been manipulated.
As is so often the case, the numbers provided the CBO by House Democrats is more rigged with more tricks than Dolly Parton's superstructure.
The CBO figures trumpeted by Democrats is based on junk, because junk is what they fed them.
Here are some graphs that represent the
true costs of health care reform. They don't represent the latest tweaks in the House bill, but instead were compiled from a nearly identical House plan and the Senate plan.
First, a graph based upon an earlier CBO report of a previous version of the House Bill (
source).
Now the Senate Bill (
source).
One thing you'll note in
any honest representation of the Democratic health care rationing scam is that it is going to cost us hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars to create a system when none are turned away, but all are equally miserable.
There
can be health care reform. There
will be health care reform. But it can be done without bankrupting our nation, or growing a federal government already intent on devouring our individual liberties.
Let's scrap this trainwreck, and start over with a bill that make sense, that all Americans can get behind.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:07 AM
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I just saw the Fox interview of The One. Brit Brier bitch slapped the man! I didn't know he had it in him, my opinion of this newguy has changed.
Posted by: David at March 18, 2010 11:09 AM (jHK8i)
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This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 3/19/2010, at The Unreligious Right
Posted by: UNRR at March 19, 2010 05:30 AM (2D++g)
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Obama Not Bothered by Possibly Un-Constitutional "Procedural" Deem-and-Pass Scheme; Dem House Leaders Set Selves Up For Future Ethics Charges
Just win, baby:
The president, in an interview with Fox News' Bret Baier, responded for the first time to the controversy over a plan to use a parliamentary maneuver to allow the House to pass the Senate's health care bill without forcing members to vote for it directly.
The esoteric procedure has drawn fierce protest from Republicans, who say Democrats are trying to avoid accountability. But the president said there will be no doubt about where lawmakers stand on health care reform.
"I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the procedural rules are in the House or Senate," Obama said. "What I can tell you is that the vote that's taken in the House will be a vote for health care reform."
At Volokh,
experts suggest that using deem-and-pass (or "demon pass" as some have dubbed it) will bring the Constitutionality of the legislation in question, as it would assume a controversial law passed without directly voting on it, seemingly in clear violation of the Constitutional requirement. While supporters of the Demcratic scheme are quick to point out that deem-and-pass has been used previously by both Democrats and Republicans, the simple fact of the matter is that it has never before been used to force through legislation that did not have clear majority support.
Deem-and-pass has been used to pass legislation unpopular with voters but with scant opposition in Congress; using it as a trick to avoid possible rejection in an open vote is clearly against what the Founders intended, and arguably grounds for ethics charges to be brought against Democratic leaders who are clearly acting in bad faith.
While there is little chance that the current Congress would bring up Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Louise Slaughter, and other Democratic architects of the scam up on charges, the possibility exists that a November revolt that returns the House to Republican control could see such charges pursued. Based upon the public's strong opposition to the current health care rationing bill, such ethics cases would likely find overwhelming public support.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:13 AM
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Sorry, but the repubs don't have the pubes to do something like that. Remember always: To Repubs politics is a gentleman's gentlemanly game. To the Dems, it's all out, take no prisoners, war.
Posted by: TimothyJ at March 18, 2010 09:37 AM (IKKIf)
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The Dems have the right idea for total war: the only good Republican to them is a dead Republican. Until the entire GOP--including the base--believes that the only good liberal is a dead one, we will have as much success stomping out this infestation of leftists in our country as the USA has had stomping out jihadists.
Posted by: iconoclast at March 18, 2010 10:49 AM (O8ebz)
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One quibble. The level of controversy of a proposed law is not a Constitutional issue. If Ocare were Constitutional overall (I don't think it is) then it would make no difference whether the bill enjoys good numbers on Gallup or not. It is the process that is Constitutional or not. No, the Reps shouldn't have raised the debt ceiling by this device either. Actually they should not have raised the debt ceiling at all, although this is at least an inarguably Constitutional action.
Posted by: megapotamus at March 18, 2010 12:37 PM (LWhHe)
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