Confederate Yankee
September 02, 2006
Waiter, There's a Jihadi In My Soup
It looks like several more British "moderate Muslims" were close to deciding to "prove themselves," as Miss England says, as 14 men were arrested in a series of overnight raids.
Armed police have arrested 14 men following anti-terror raids in London, including 12 arrests at a restaurant in the Borough area.
Two people were held elsewhere in the city in what police said was an intelligence-led operation.
Police said the arrests were not connected to the alleged transatlantic jet bomb plot or the 7 July attacks.
An Islamic school near Tunbridge Wells has also been searched as part of the same operation.
The Jameah Islameah property, on Catt's Hill near Crowborough, East Sussex, is an Islamic teaching facility for boys aged between 11 and 16.
I'm shocked,
shocked that an Islamic school may have been used to help plot terror attacks. And appalled. And
verklempt, and I'm not even 100% sure what that word means. Most of those arrested, however, were taken into custody at a local
halal Chinese restaurant called The Bridge to China Town.
Halal food is, of course, food permissible according to Islamic diet restrictions.
Sadly, you'll note that the BBC is so cowed by the "moderates" among them that they can't even directly mention the fact that these men were
British-born Pakistani Muslims, preferring to let you infer the facts for the locational data provided.
Great Britain may yet be saved, but the BBC has already been lost to enemy action.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:43 AM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Sadly, you'll note that the BBC is so cowed by the "moderates" among them that they can't even directly mention the fact that these men were British-born Pakistani Muslims, preferring to let you infer the facts for the locational data provided.
I don't understand what you're saying. The article clearly says, "The men, who are thought to be mainly young British Muslims of Pakistani origin, . . . ."
Posted by: Redhand at September 02, 2006 10:06 AM (7G9b2)
2
Redhand - the Guardian link provides that description. The BBC-linked article does not.
Posted by: Cindi at September 02, 2006 10:26 AM (asVsU)
3
Redhand, the Guardian article says that. The BBC won't tell you that truth.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 02, 2006 10:26 AM (BTdrY)
4
Your trackback is not working
Posted by: Don Singleton at September 02, 2006 11:18 AM (+Yrlm)
Posted by: Redhand at September 02, 2006 05:57 PM (7G9b2)
6
The word is ferklempt (I know; I could have sworn it was a v too.) I only know this because my Jewish boyfriend wanted to look up the definition and he couldn't find it under v. One of his relatives set him straight.
It means overcome with emotion, feeling sad, sentimental. It is a catch-all word meant to signify a weepy state.
LOVE this blog. I don't comment very often because most of the time your other posters cover everything I would want to say.
Posted by: FedUp at September 02, 2006 07:10 PM (aMMfm)
7
I'm waiting for GWB to update the "Axis of Evil" to include Great Britain. It will be at the SOTU and Tony Blair will be up in the box next to Laura. GWB will say that England is a house of terror and they are arresting TB. Pan to shot of of Laura (or the twins) holding a gun on the PM as MPs handcuff him and lead him away.
Posted by: matt a at September 05, 2006 10:25 AM (GvAmg)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
New Republic Sockpuppet Exposed
They never seem to learn.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:55 AM
| Comments (0)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
September 01, 2006
Gabriel Range's Clone War
The blogosphere is quite abuzz over a British-made mock documentary that envisions a world in the wake of the assassination of U.S. President George W. Bush, where an Emporer Palpatine-like President Dick Cheney institutes a totalitarian government in the United States that instigates a cascading series of wars against Iran, Syria, Venezuela and Cuba.
While I think that filmmaker Gabriel Range made a film that he hopes is supposed to be taken quite seriously, this dark historical fantasy seems to be more of an exploration of the psychology of the darker, more twisted depths of paranoid agi-prop than an attempt to define a realistic alternative future in the event of an assassination.
Is Range truly convinced that the American people would spasmodically accept the nationality of a presidential assassin as a justifiable pretense for war? Americans have certainly had the opportunity, and yet did not try to invade Italy when Giuseppe Zangara tried to kill FDR, nor did we stage a knee-jerk invasion of Iraq in the wake of the 1993 attempt on President H.W. Bush's life by agents of Saddam Hussein.
No, Range assaults the intelligence and the individuality of all Americans, assuming we would embrace the imposition of his fictional totalitarianism and an ever-escalating series of wars without having any mechanisms, or even an inclination, to stop them from occurring. He lumps liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican, into one stereotype of a bloodthirsty kill-anyone-we-can-because-we-can cartoonish monolith that has never existed in this or any other American lifetime.
We are not clones, Mr. Range.
More than any other, this country is naturally inclined to entertain radically different ideas at the same time, making this war-loving future United States of Death laughably sophomoric, and in the end, next to impossible to believe for anyone who knows the American psychology at all.
We'll learned nothing about an alternate American future from what I've read of this film, but I think we have learned quite a bit about what Gabriel Range thinks of Americans.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:39 PM
| Comments (10)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
You forgot some:
- We didn't invade Poland when Leon Czolgosz murdered William McKinley.
- We didn't invade Cuba or the Soviet Union when Oswald killed JFK, despite the assassin's affinity for both communist "paradises".
- We didn't invade the Republic of Georgia when Vladimir Arutinian attempted to kill the current President Bush last year.
No doubt the storyline is compelling in this movie, but to make it about a sitting president regardless of party is repugnant in the extreme.
Posted by: John at September 01, 2006 08:00 PM (tROri)
2
This is what you get when moonbats go off their meds.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 01, 2006 09:15 PM (WxRQS)
3
Very relevant and nice post, CY, but I have come to the awful conclusion that these Leftists in Britain(and the EU, and the US and Canada as well) are true believers in their cause celebre', that cause being the destruction of the US as it now exists. They seek a UN/EU type entitiy here in the US that would become a cash cow for their socialist utopia. That they have the minds of children in their dealings with the Islamists is indication enough that they will fail, but the damage done by them is likely to allow the fascists of the prophet to succeed where they fail. The fact that these idiots would be some of the first to face the axeman is about the only satisfaction I can muster from this whole mess.
Posted by: jesusland joe at September 01, 2006 09:27 PM (rUyw4)
4
Wow, a totalitarian government in the United States that instigates a cascading series of wars.
How awful!
Posted by: ClearwaterConservative at September 02, 2006 04:58 AM (92quE)
5
So, basically, he saw "V for Vendetta" and instead of saying "it's been done" he said "boy, I can capitalize on that!"
Kind of like Blair Witch 2.
I think I'll call it "V for Vomit."
What kind of amazes me about the "artsy community" is how they are constantly patting each other on the back for their "courage" for saying and doing exactly what everyone around them always says and does.
Posted by: Merovign at September 04, 2006 11:15 AM (9kB4w)
6
i think america needs more movies like this to open up their eyes, and realize what our world is coming to.
Posted by: dsfsdgsd at September 05, 2006 08:54 PM (XG/Hp)
7
You haven't seen this film at all.
It's not a bit like you describe. Seriously. There's no war in it, Cheney barely features, and it's all about the mechanics of the judicial enquiry after the assassination.
Please get your facts right before dismissing a film.
Bet you don't have thje moral courage to display this...
Posted by: Mr Blobby at September 07, 2006 11:48 AM (hmWfT)
8
Wars against Iran, Syria, Venezuala and Cuba.
Presumably Rumsfeld will still be Secretary of Defense. I recall that a few years ago when one of the newsies at a press conference said that with the forces comitted in Iraq, the United States did not have the ability to fight a war anywhere else. Rumsfeld replied that we could fight twenty wars at the same time. It's just that nineteen of them would be nuclear wars.
Posted by: Mark in Texas at September 07, 2006 08:29 PM (RjwXP)
9
This comment is not only about the film, but it is also about some of the other comments and their authors (as I percieve it and them).
I don't need to see this film to judge it and know beyond all doubt that I don't agree with it.
Plain and simple.. It's insulting, beyond bad taste, and just WRONG, and not just because it involves the assasination of President Bush.
The doctored picture that was published, as well as some of the comments here, speak volumes to me about the opinion of the writer/director, Gabriel Range and those authors.
Range, and others of his ilk, are HATERS (in this case BUSH). He and those like him, be they in this country or another, make me physically ill. These people make this type of statement, then attempt to hide behind the 1st Amendment and/or some form of political correctness, and all of the so-called popular "artsy/celebrity" crowd pander to them. Then those enamored with the celebrities pander to them, thus proving that intelligent life on this planet is LACKING!
I can't imagine any reasonably SANE/RATIONAL person even attempting to defend this movie, or it's creator for any reason, or on any level.
Posted by: Mr Libertarian at September 08, 2006 07:37 PM (W3CW+)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Air America Cuts Staff, Financial Problems Cited
An utter shocker, I know:
MIKE MALLOY FIRED BY AIR AMERICA RADIO
There will be no Mike Malloy program on Air America Radio as we have been terminated as of 8/30/06.
We are as shocked as you are, especially since as recently as last Tuesday we were told we had the go-ahead to announce our return to NY airwaves and that our contract was "on the way."
We are told its a financial decision.
Is Air America having financial problems? If so, no
Boys & Girls Club in America is safe.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:45 PM
| Comments (0)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
"Snip the red wire. But first..."
Perhaps I'm simply confused as to the best way to dispose of unexploded ordnance, but is tipping an unexploded artillery shell forward, apparently up on its fuse, as this Lebanese soldier does, the smartest way to proceed?
Update: In the comments, my favorite
ordnance expert says this soldier is not as dumb as he looks:
The thing has already functioned. And even if it is an ICM projectile, fuze function and dispensing, vice range-to-impact, means he's probably nowhere near where the cargo was ejected, either.
In other words, the Associated Press was dead wrong when they called this an "unexploded shell"
in their caption to this photo.
Shocking, I know.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:18 AM
| Comments (4)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Since it's a carrier projectile (possibly ICM, possibly smoke, possibly flares - I'd love a better pic...) yeah, it's okay.
The thing has already functioned. And even if it is an ICM projectile, fuze function and dispensing, vice range-to-impact, means he's probably nowhere near where the cargo was ejected, either.
Posted by: John of Argghhh! at September 01, 2006 10:31 AM (Iymsr)
2
In case someone wants to quibble about stuff left inside... it's simply not very likely - when the fuze functions, if it worked well enough to blow the bottom of the round off (as it's supposed to) then it shoved everything out with it.
Even if, in some bizarre world, something was left inside...
smoke canisters or WP-impregnated felt wedges would have burned either from exposure or the fuze function... a flare would have burned from exposure, and ICM bomblets would not have armed.
But I've never heard of a carrier round failing in that regard if the fuze functions well enough to blow off the base.
Parachutes fail to deploy, or burn, smoke canisters/wedges may fall in too dispersed a fashion if function is too high, or not be dispersed enough if function is too low, and ICM submunitions have their duds - but the carcase itself should be safe.
Posted by: John of Argghhh! at September 01, 2006 10:38 AM (Iymsr)
3
When you're faking pics, might as well fake commentary too...
After all, integrity is like virginity, and these people popped their cherry quite a while ago.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 01, 2006 11:42 AM (WxRQS)
4
I would expect that kind of approach from a French soldier.
Posted by: jay at September 01, 2006 12:04 PM (hfLGC)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Yeah, That'll Work...
This is kind of like John Mark Karr reassuring you that Wayne Williams would be a great babysitter:
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said Friday that Syria would step up border patrols and work with the Lebanese army to stop the flow of weapons to Hezbollah.
Syria will increase its own patrols along the Lebanon-Syria border, and establish joint patrols with the Lebanese army "when possible," Annan said after meeting with Syrian President Bashar Assad in Damascus.
Assad made no public comments after their meeting, but Annan spoke with reporters at the Damascus airport before he departed midday for Qatar.
The U.N. resolution that halted fighting between Israel and Hezbollah calls for an arms embargo on the guerrilla group, and for Lebanon to "secure its borders and other entry points."
Annan said Assad informed him that Syria would "take all necessary measures" to implement paragraph 15 of U.N. resolution 1701, which calls on countries to prevent the sale or supply of weapons to entities in Lebanon without the consent of the Lebanese government or U.N. peacekeepers.
This is the same Syria that
armed Hezbollah with medium-range rockets used in the recent conflict against Israeli civilian targets, the same Syria who's leader
praised Hezbollah's Pyrrhic "victory." Now more than ever, the cease-fire between Hezbollah and Israel merely appears to be a chance for both sides to rearm and reevaluate their tactics before the next conflagration.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:35 AM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
I had to laugh when I read that this morning. Like all of a sudden Syria is the most trustworthy country on earth. It's like making Anjedimabob (well however it is spelled) the person in charge of Niger's uranium mines. LOL.
Posted by: Specter at September 01, 2006 09:45 AM (ybfXM)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Pretty/Stupid
From the first Muslim Miss England:
The first Muslim to be crowned Miss England has warned that stereotyping members of her community is leading some towards extremism.
Hammasa Kohistani made history last year when she was chosen to represent England in the Miss World pageant.
But one year on, the 19-year-old student from Hounslow feels that winning the coveted beauty title last September was a "sugar coating" for Muslims who have become more alienated in the past 12 months.
She said: "The attitude towards Muslims has got worse over the year. Also the Muslims' attitude to British people has got worse.
"Even moderate Muslims are turning to terrorism to prove themselves. They think they might as well support it because they are stereotyped anyway. It will take a long time for communities to start mixing in more."
"...moderate Muslims are turning to terrorism to prove themselves. They think they might as well support it because they are stereotyped anyway."
According to Ms. Kohistani's logic, alcoholics should forego trying to get their lives back together, say, "the Hell, with it," and go ahead and drink because people
expect them to be drunks.
It is a troubling mindset, and one I hope is not widespread in western Muslim communities. If Muslim moderates star to embrace terrorism as a way of "proving themselves" to radicals within the nations they inhabit, current feelings of disassociation that they seem to presently feel will only worsen, becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. If an embrace of terrorism becomes widespread, or more likely, an
appearance of the embrace of terrorism becomes widespread, crackdowns against Muslims will only worsen. It could perhaps lead to even worse tensions and violence if the rest of the British population feels significantly threatened.
If Hammasa Kohistani wants to change public opinion and stereotypes against Muslims as she says elsewhere in the article, she needs to encourage Muslims to prove, time and again if necessary, that the violent fundamentalist way is not their own. British Muslims should respond to suspicions not by embracing terrorism, but by becoming the most vigilant fighters against it.
A widespread "we might as well do it anyway" mindset that validates these stereotypes is precisely the wrong message to be sending.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:48 AM
| Comments (5)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Notice the arrogance of someone from a culture that has NO tolerance of anyone deviating from the party line threatening violence if THEY aren't tolerated!
Posted by: Tom TB at September 01, 2006 10:33 AM (fEnUg)
2
Is she not correct that Muslims feel alienated? not correct that attitudes toward Muslims are worsening? not correct that Muslims' attitudes toward Britain are worsening? not correct that moderate Muslims are feeling more hostile? I appreciate her refreshing candor as opposed to the all too common denial, blame or public spin. I detect no arrogance in her words nor any approval for behavior of any parties, just a concern that alientation is not helping matters on either side, something of a plea for basic human kindness, warmth, not to be confused with acceptance of Islam.
Posted by: Cindy at September 01, 2006 11:39 AM (CBdqs)
3
Cindy, you just keep thinking liberal; you will be covering your head after you just left the beauty salon.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 01, 2006 06:02 PM (GIL7z)
4
islamo-fascism on the move - i wonder why Europe is so accomodating - no, it is fear
Posted by: battal agha at September 02, 2006 10:14 AM (8TmK3)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 31, 2006
Concrete Proof
In the comments of this post, Ronald Lewis, an experienced bomb damage assessment expert with 20 years of experience, states, in part (my bold):
...The nature of the hole in the roof of the Reuters vehicles is inconsistent with penetration by shrapnel. There would be more than one hole, a larger one surrounded by many smaller ones. This single hole, its shape and the initial gray color of the damage area are more consistent with a vehicle struck by a large piece of masonry striking the top of the vehicle at high velocity, possibly dislodged by a rocket blast. It is clear that the vehicle, itself, was not struck by missiles or rockets...
Mr Lewis is not the only expert to reach a similar conclusion.
Both of the armored vehicle manufacturers I corresponded with
yesterday agreed that an explosive probably did not cause the damage shown on the Reuters vehicle.
Old Soldier, a retired Master Army Aviator helicopter and fixed-wing test pilot also remarked based upon his 31-years experience that the damage may have been caused by (my bold):
... [a] chunk of flying concrete debris from a larger explosion (say perhaps a HELLFIRE or artillery round hitting a building nearby).
There are, of course,
conflicting ideas that very may well be valid. Photo analysis alone does not seem capable of resolving this issue with any degree of certainty in the blogosphere, which is why it is quite disappointing that the professional media refuses to investigate what may have occurred.
I have one more email floating out there to an expert that might be able to shed a little more light on this incident, but as time passes, it appears that they are unlikely to return comment. The simple fact of the matter is that without a close-up inspection of the vehicle by recognized experts and perhaps metallurgical tests on any shrapnel that can be verified as being recovered from the victims and the vehicle, we may never know exactly what transpired.
I could not resist my sillier side, however, and present to you an artist's conception of the helicopter that carried out the attack.
Barring any late-breaking developments, I think this story is pretty much done.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:48 PM
| Comments (4)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
I've been a mechanic, fireman, and EMT at the same time in my life. The first thing I would do to debunk a "They hit our Ambulance!" claim would be to open the hood, and see if there was an ENGINE, and other essential parts still in place to operate the vehicle! I can shoot holes in junked cars as well as the next guy.
Posted by: Tom TB at August 31, 2006 06:52 PM (GIL7z)
2
CY did you receive DOD permission to publish a picture of the next generation Apache with the cutting edge technology CBDS (Concrete Block Delivery System)? There is a smaller version of CBDS that is being developed for Predator UAVs.
Posted by: Old Soldier at August 31, 2006 07:23 PM (owAN1)
3
Reuters could settle the whole thing very quickly by presenting the vehicle to the FBI or BATF for chemical residue analysis.
I won't hold my breath.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 31, 2006 09:34 PM (WxRQS)
4
One more question: are we confident that the vehicle was armored to begin with? Has anyone tried to confirm an 8mm thickness (from the photos or otherwise)? Does 8mm bend and tear like that?
Posted by: The Scrutinator at September 06, 2006 09:58 AM (MV7vd)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Soros: Negotiate with Evil
I generally oppose the idea of taking moral advice from a convicted felon, and so it was with quite a bit of skepticism that I clicked on the link to today's Boston Globeeditorial by George Soros.
My skepticism was
well-founded:
The failure of Israel to subdue Hezbollah demonstrates the many weaknesses of the war-on-terror concept. One of those weaknesses is that even if the targets are terrorists, the victims are often innocent civilians, and their suffering reinforces the terrorist cause.
In response to Hezbollah's attacks, Israel was justified in attacking Hezbollah to protect itself against the threat of missiles on its border. However, Israel should have taken greater care to minimize collateral damage. The civilian casualties and material damage inflicted on Lebanon inflamed Muslims and world opinion against Israel and converted Hezbollah from aggressors to heroes of resistance for many. Weakening Lebanon has also made it more difficult to rein in Hezbollah.
Precisely what further steps should Israel have taken to minimize civilian casualties, Mr. Soros? Israel warned all Lebanese civilians to leave areas where they might launch airstrikes, often days in advance. Israel primarily used precision-guided munitions from strike aircraft to strike specific targeted locations. Israel took the responsible steps any nation should by using precision weaponry instead of area weapons whenever possible, and gave up some of its combat effectiveness by announcing where strikes may occur well before an attack, so that Lebanese civilian and terrorist alike had the opportunity to leave well in advance. Apparently an advance warning wasn't enough, and Soros would have Israel provide transportation as well.
Further, Soros blames Israel for their response, but does not even attempt to address the fact that Hezbollah purposefully thrust Lebanese civilians into the conflict. Hezbollah fired rockets from residential areas, hid the rockets themselves, their launchers, and their fighters in buildings occupied by civilians. The fact that the Lebanese government was weak, ineffectual, and heavily influenced by Hezbollah's paymasters in Damascus is a fact Soros would rather skip past than address.
Another weakness of the war-on-terror concept is that it relies on military action and rules out political approaches. Israel previously withdrew from Lebanon and then from Gaza unilaterally, rather than negotiating political settlements with the Lebanese government and the Palestinian authority. The strengthening of Hezbollah and Hamas was a direct consequence of that approach. The war-on-terror concept stands in the way of recognizing this fact because it separates "us" from "them" and denies that our actions help shape their behavior.
Starting with Presidents Nixon and Ford, the United states, with the rest of the world in tow, started a pattern of appeasing terrorists by providing little or no deterrence to increasingly violent attacks. The lack of a cohesive and forceful military response to these attacks only encouraged the spread of terrorist groups, allowing them to grow virtually unchecked as they killed and injured thousands. It was this long-running pattern of relying on politics, policing, and negotiating that placed us in the situation we have today. Soros repeat a pattern that 35 years of failures has proven is impotent and ineffectual.
Hezbollah, Hamas and the governments that support them have repeatedly stated that their reason to exist is to wipe Israel off the face of the map and to force the rest of the world to accept their radical version of Islam at the point of a sword. Historically, Soros' recommended course of action has proven to be one of failure time and again. He, like the components of the Far Left that lap up his funding, are philosophically unable to face that reality, and continued a dogged pursuit of polices that encourage terrorism to continue to blossom.
A third weakness is that the war-on-terror concept lumps together different political movements that use terrorist tactics. It fails to distinguish among Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, or the Sunni insurrection and the Mahdi militia in Iraq. Yet all these terrorist manifestations, being different, require different responses. Neither Hamas nor Hezbollah can be treated merely as targets in the war on terror because both have deep roots in their societies; yet there are profound differences between them.
Again, Soros shows that he misunderstands the problem of confronting Islamic terrorism on a fundamental level. Theirs is not a "political” movement, and while these groups interpret Islam differently, they do not recognize a separation of theology from governance. The tenants of
Sharia itself disprove his views categorically. While the specifics differ, all share a common goal of the destruction of Israel, the subjugation of the West under Islam, and death to any that hold an opposing view. You cannot negotiate with those who see their views and their views alone as Absolute Truth. You can choose to bend their will and give up your views, your freedoms, and your rights, or you must fight them to the death. This is the lesson that Islam has spread to every border as it has expanded and been forcefully repulsed over nearly 1,400 years of human history, whether to invading Muslim Army has been Sunni or Shiite in makeup. Soros and those who acquiesce to his viewpoint are woefully unprepared to take the only course of action that over a millennia of experience shows us is the only thing that works to stop or slow the spread of the violence inherent to the various fundamentalist sects of Islam.
Looking back, it is easy to see where Israeli policy went wrong. When Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, Israel should have gone out of its way to strengthen him and his reformist team. When Israel withdrew from Gaza, the former head of the World Bank, James Wolfensohn, negotiated a six-point plan on behalf of the Quartet for the Middle East (Russia, the United States, the European Union, and the United Nations). It included opening crossings between Gaza and the West Bank, allowing an airport and seaport in Gaza, opening the border with Egypt; and transferring the greenhouses abandoned by Israeli settlers into Arab hands. None of the six points was implemented. This contributed to Hamas's electoral victory. The Bush administration, having pushed Israel to allow the Palestinians to hold elections, then backed Israel's refusal to deal with a Hamas government. The effect was to impose further hardship on the Palestinians.
Soros forgets to mention the constant failure of these groups to keep their end of a bargain. Once more, Soros places all the blame on Western states, while treating Arab states as children unable to take any initiative towards peace or betterment on their own. It betrays an inherent racism, the absolving of a proclivity towards violence as an accepted consequence of who they are. Soros belittles both the mental acuity of these actors and absolves them or wrongdoing. Though a sidenote, Soros forgets to mention what happened when those prosperous greenhouses were transferred from Israeli to Palestinian hands.
The Palestinians
destroyed them. The hardships they suffer are self-imposed.
Nevertheless, Abbas was able to forge an agreement with the political arm of Hamas for the formation of a unity government. It was to foil this agreement that the military branch of Hamas, run from Damascus, engaged in the provocation that brought a heavy-handed response from Israel -- which in turn incited Hezbollah to further provocation, opening a second front.
That is how extremists play off against each other to destroy any chance of political progress.
Once more, Soros shows he cannot wrap his mind about the simplest concept; as long as terrorist groups are alive, there can be no peace.
Israel has been a participant in this game, and President Bush bought into this flawed policy, uncritically supporting Israel. Events have shown that this policy leads to the escalation of violence. The process has advanced to the point where Israel's unquestioned military superiority is no longer sufficient to overcome the negative consequences of its policy. Israel is now more endangered in its existence than it was at the time of the Oslo Agreement on peace.
Similarly, the United States has become less safe since Bush declared war on terror.
Israel's "flawed policy"--its determined will to survive-- seems to trouble Soros greatly. A tiny sliver of land in a vast Middle East, Israel only exists because its military has successfully repulsed attempts made by every single Arab neighboring state to destroy them. Israel escalates conflicts until they become unbearable for those attacking them, or it dies. Soros does not seem overly concerned about the possibility of the latter.
Soros says we are less safe now than in the past. Wars are never safe by definition, but the appeasement he preaches is far more deadly.
The time has come to realize that the present policies are counterproductive. There will be no end to the vicious circle of escalating violence without a political settlement of the Palestine question. In fact, the prospects for engaging in negotiations are better now than they were a few months ago. The Israelis must realize that a military deterrent is not sufficient on its own. And Arabs, having redeemed themselves on the battlefield, may be more willing to entertain a compromise.
There are strong voices arguing that Israel must never negotiate from a position of weakness. They are wrong. Israel's position is liable to become weaker the longer it persists on its present course. Similarly Hezbollah, having tasted the sense but not the reality of victory (and egged on by Syria and Iran) may prove recalcitrant. But that is where the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas comes into play. The Palestinian people yearn for peace and relief from suffering. The political -- as distinct from the military -- wing of Hamas must be responsive to their desires. It is not too late for Israel to encourage and deal with an Abbas-led Palestinian unity government as the first step toward a better-balanced approach.
Given how strong the US-Israeli relationship is, it would help Israel to achieve its own legitimate aims if the US government were not blinded by the war-on-terror concept.
Once more, Soros seems to be under the illusion that the Palestinians want peace. Hezbollah, Hamas, and their sponsors patently refuse to recognize Israel's right to even exist. They state in their charters that they fight for the total destruction of Israel.
George Soros seems to think that is negotiable.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:58 AM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
I know that if someone were doing something in my neighborhood or city that could bring a military response to the area that could hurt me or my family, then I would try to stop that activity and condemn those doing it. Even if I hated the other side, my primary concern would be for the welfare of my local area and those closed to me.
Thus, our response is ill conceived. We should be trying to cause more damage, not less. You can not get anymore hate and resolve to hurt Israel and the west than is present now without doing anything to these people. They only understand brute force. Vist the area and talk to the Muslims and watch their daily activiy. They would respect someone that did the maximum of damage, not someone concerned for the feelings of others or that held up using force to not hurt supposedly innocent bystanders.
Posted by: David Caskey at August 31, 2006 11:24 AM (6wTpy)
2
Mr. Soros can blather on and on. He doesn't face the daily threat of a well intentioned freedom fighter detonating himself at the local Smoothie king.
I notice it is the out-of-touch wealthy, with their personal bodyguards and security, always lecturing the masses on how to negotiate public safety.
Posted by: dc at August 31, 2006 12:12 PM (ffs7z)
3
I once heard an old Sgt. Major say that the definition of a liberal was someone who was good at pointing out problems, but not nearly as good at pointing out solutions.
Posted by: brando at August 31, 2006 01:00 PM (K+VjK)
4
Precisely what further steps should Israel have taken to minimize civilian casualties
Convert to Islam? Then the whole thing would never make the news ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at August 31, 2006 09:37 PM (WxRQS)
5
Soros knows perfectly well that Hezbollah's nonnegotiable goal is the destruction of Israel and the death of as many Jews as possible. He just doesn't care.
Posted by: pst314 at September 05, 2006 08:24 PM (lCxSZ)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Not the Way We Remember It
In an article focusing on Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's speech to the American Legion Tuesday, the L.A. Times' Julian E. Barnes slipped this in near the end:
Rumsfeld's speech drew sharp complaints from Democrats, including Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, whose father, Joseph P. Kennedy, was criticized by Rumsfeld in a speech Monday.
The elder Kennedy, who served as a U.S. ambassador to Britain before World War II, resigned that post because he opposed British and U.S. war preparations.
"Secretary Rumsfeld is the last person who should preach the lessons of history after ignoring them for the last six years," Kennedy said in a statement. "As a result of his failures, Americans are less safe."
Barnes states that the elder Kennedy "opposed British and U.S. war preparations," but it is not surprising that he glossed over just
why the senior Kennedy was opposed to the preparations for war.
Wikipedia
offers a clue:
Kennedy was (for a while) a close friend with leading Jewish lawyer Felix Frankfurter, who helped Kennedy get his sons into the London School of Economics, where they worked with Harold Laski, a leading Jewish intellectual and prominent Socialist.[4] While holding positive attitudes towards individual Jews, Kennedy's views of the Jews as a people were, by his own admission, overwhelmingly negative.
According to Harvey Klemmer, who served as one of Kennedy's embassy aides, Kennedy habitually referred to Jews as "kikes or sheenies." Kennedy allegedly told Klemmer that "[some] individual Jews are all right, Harvey, but as a race they stink. They spoil everything they touch."[5] When Klemmer returned from a trip to Germany and reported the pattern of vandalism and assault on Jews by Nazis, Kennedy responded "well, they brought it on themselves."[6]
On June 13, 1938, Kennedy met with Herbert von Dirksen, the German ambassador in London, who reported to Berlin that Kennedy had told him that "it was not so much the fact that we want to get rid of the Jews that was so harmful to us, but rather the loud clamor with which we accompanied this purpose. [Kennedy] himself fully understood our Jewish policy."[7] Kennedy's main concern with such violent acts against German Jews as Kristallnacht was that they generated bad publicity in the West for the Nazi regime, a concern he communicated in a letter to Charles Lindbergh.[8]
From Seymour Hersh's
Dark Side of Camelot:
There is no evidence that Ambassador [Joseph] Kennedy understood in the days before the war that stopping Hitler was a moral imperative.
"Individual Jews are all right, Harvey," Kennedy told Harvey Klemmer, one of his few trusted aides in the American Embassy, "but as a race they stink. They spoil everything they touch. Look what they did to the movies." Klemmer, in an interview many years later made available for this book, recalled that Kennedy and his "entourage" generally referred to Jews as "kikes or sheenies."
Kennedy and his family would later emphatically deny allegations of anti-Semitism stemming from his years as ambassador, but the German diplomatic documents show that Kennedy consistently minimized the Jewish issue in his four-month attempt in the summer and fall of 1938 to obtain an audience with Hitler. On June 13, as the Nazi regime was systematically segregating Jews from German society, Kennedy advised Herbert von Dirksen, the German ambassador in London, as Dirksen reported to Berlin, that "it
was not so much the fact that we wanted to get rid of the Jews that was so harmful to us, but rather the loud clamor with which we accompanied this purpose. He himself understood our Jewish policy completely." On October 13, 1938, a few weeks before Kristallnacht, with its Brown Shirt terror attacks on synagogues and Jewish businesses, Kennedy met again with Ambassador Dirksen, who subsequently informed his superiors that "today, too, as during former conversations, Kennedy mentioned that very strong anti-Semitic feelings existed in the United States and that a large portion of the population had an understanding of the German attitude toward the Jews."
From George Mason University's
History News Network:
Arriving at London in early 1938, newly-appointed U.S. Ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy took up quickly with another transplanted American. Viscountess Nancy Witcher Langhorne Astor assured Kennedy early in their friendship that he should not be put off by her pronounced and proud anti-Catholicism.
"I'm glad you are smart enough not to take my [views] personally," she wrote. Astor pointed out that she had a number of Roman Catholic friends - G.K. Chesterton among them - with whom she shared, if nothing else, a profound hatred for the Jewish race. Joe Kennedy, in turn, had always detested Jews generally, although he claimed several as friends individually. Indeed, Kennedy seems to have tolerated the occasional Jew in the same way Astor tolerated the occasional Catholic.
As fiercely anti-Communist as they were anti-Semitic, Kennedy and Astor looked upon Adolf Hitler as a welcome solution to both of these "world problems" (Nancy's phrase). No member of the so-called "Cliveden Set" (the informal cabal of appeasers who met frequently at Nancy Astor's palatial home) seemed much concerned with the dilemma faced by Jews under the Reich. Astor wrote Kennedy that Hitler would have to do more than just "give a rough time" to "the killers of Christ" before she'd be in favor of launching "Armageddon to save them. The wheel of history swings round as the Lord would have it. Who are we to stand in the way of the future?" Kennedy replied that he expected the "Jew media" in the United States to become a problem, that "Jewish pundits in New York and Los Angeles" were already making noises contrived to "set a match to the fuse of the world."
During May of 1938, Kennedy engaged in extensive discussions with the new German Ambassador to the Court of St. James's, Herbert von Dirksen. In the midst of these conversations (held without approval from the U.S. State Department), Kennedy advised von Dirksen that President Roosevelt was the victim of "Jewish influence" and was poorly informed as to the philosophy, ambitions and ideals of Hitler's regime. (The Nazi ambassador subsequently told his bosses that Kennedy was "Germany's best friend" in London.)
Columnists back in the states condemned Kennedy's fraternizing. Kennedy later claimed that 75% of the attacks made on him during his Ambassadorship emanated from "a number of Jewish publishers and writers. ... Some of them in their zeal did not hesitate to resort to slander and falsehood to achieve their aims." He told his eldest son, Joe Jr., that he disliked having to put up with "Jewish columnists" who criticized him with no good reason.
Like his father, Joe Jr. admired Adolf Hitler. Young Joe had come away impressed by Nazi rhetoric after traveling in Germany as a student in 1934. Writing at the time, Joe applauded Hitler's insight in realizing the German people's "need of a common enemy, someone of whom to make the goat. Someone, by whose riddance the Germans would feel they had cast out the cause of their predicament. It was excellent psychology, and it was too bad that it had to be done to the Jews. The dislike of the Jews, however, was well-founded. They were at the heads of all big business, in law etc. It is all to their credit for them to get so far, but their methods had been quite unscrupulous ... the lawyers and prominent judges were Jews, and if you had a case against a Jew, you were nearly always sure to lose it. ... As far as the brutality is concerned, it must have been necessary to use some ... ."
Brutality was in the eye of the beholder. Writing to Charles Lindbergh shortly after Kristallnacht in November of 1938, Joe Kennedy Sr. seemed more concerned about the political ramifications stemming from high-profile, riotous anti-Semitism than he was about the actual violence done to the Jews. "... Isn't there some way," he asked, "to persuade [the Nazis] it is on a situation like this that the whole program of saving western civilization might hinge? It is more and more difficult for those seeking peaceful solutions to advocate any plan when the papers are filled with such horror." Clearly, Kennedy's chief concern about Kristallnacht was that it might serve to harden anti-fascist sentiment at home in the United States.
Like his friend Charles Coughlin (an anti-Semitic broadcaster and Roman Catholic priest), Kennedy always remained convinced of what he believed to be the Jews' corrupt, malignant, and profound influence in American culture and politics. "The Democratic [party] policy of the United States is a Jewish production," Kennedy told a British reporter near the end of 1939, adding confidently that Roosevelt would "fall" in 1940.
But it wasn't Roosevelt who fell. Kennedy resigned his ambassadorship just weeks after FDR's overwhelming triumph at the polls. He then retreated to his home in Florida: a bitter, resentful man nurturing religious and racial bigotries that put him out-of-step with his country, and out-of-touch with history.
Senator Edward Kennedy has the gall to suggest some are ignoring history. Considering his family history of admiring and trying to appease fascists intent on wiping out Jews, he may count himself lucky if that is indeed the case.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:05 AM
| Comments (4)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
As they say, history repeats itself. The same rhetoric heard out of Nazi Germany in the 1930's is being heard in Iran in particular, and in the Moslem world in general. Ironically, Russia who suffered more than any other country at the hand of the Nazis are the first to say that it's too early for sanctions against Iran. Will the liberal appeasers ever learn?
Posted by: jay at August 31, 2006 10:00 AM (aQDXH)
2
Russia, which has had many Islamic related attacks over the last few years is still in the strange position of providing arms to Islamic groups.
One would consider this shooting your foot with all cylinder positions loaded russian roullete.
What a strange posture to take.
Could anyone suggest Russians providing arms to the Germans?
Posted by: Observer at August 31, 2006 10:18 AM (1aM/I)
3
The elder Kennedy was also a close associate to Capone and the principal supplier of transportation for the mob.
Another individual with close opinions to the edler Kennedy was FDR. The darling of the Democratic party. He was responsible for turning away many refugee ships from the US that ulimately returned their Jewish cargo to Germany and then to the camps.
Posted by: David Caskey at August 31, 2006 10:46 AM (6wTpy)
4
The histories of both the Kennedy and Bush clans invovlement with the Nazis should not be forgotten.
Posted by: moo slime at August 31, 2006 03:48 PM (A4xPG)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
I Didn't Know This Was Going To Be On the Quiz...
But Dr. Perlmutter gives me an "A" all the same:
I first talked about the blogger-driven battles over the Israel-Hezbullah war imagery in an essay for Editor & Publisher and then here and here in PBB.
And the controversy continues--with a constructive object lesson for us all.
I don't think blogs will replace big media, but the small blogger can, with moxie and smarts, shame the big boys and girls by doing the job that we trained the professionals to do in journalism school. Every good J-School teacher I know instructs her/his students to think, question and dig. Don't just accept the press release or the face value of an event. Scratch your head and ask: “Where can I go besides the usual sources to get the information that will better reveal the truth?”
Sometimes the answer is simple, and you think “Wow, why did nobody else think of that?” The answer is sadly that industrial journalism breeds laziness and routine. There are many hard working journalists out there; but the system undercuts their inventiveness and encourages them to walk the rut of what everybody else is doing.
Not so with the nimble, one wo/man blog enterprise. Consider the case of Mr. Bob Owens, aka, "ConfederateYankee."
As they say,
read it all.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:55 AM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
August 30, 2006
Armored Vehicle Experts: Reuters News Vehicle Not Hit By Israeli Missile
There has been quite a bit of debate in the blogosphere surrounding this story (note: link has been deactivated) of several days ago:
An Israeli air strike hit a Reuters vehicle in Gaza City on Saturday, wounding two journalists as they covered a military incursion, doctors and residents said.
One of the Palestinian journalists, who worked for a local media organization, was seriously wounded. A cameraman working for Reuters was knocked unconscious in the air strike, one of several in the area.
The Israeli army said the vehicle was hit because it was acting suspiciously in an area of combat and had not been identified as belonging to the media.
"During the operation, there was an aerial attack on a suspicious vehicle that drove in a suspicious manner right by the forces and in between the Palestinian militant posts," army spokeswoman Captain Noa Meir said.
"This car was not identified by the army as a press vehicle," she said. "If journalists were hurt, we regret it."
Despite the Israeli acknowledgement that they did fire on a "suspicious vehicle," bloggers were inherently suspicious of the story due to
apparently staged and in some cases
definitively falsified information provided by Arab news stringers and photojournalists in the recent Israeli-Hezbollah War. Some were quick to
cast doubts on the veracity of the story.
Other bloggers, notably
AllahPundit,
Ace of Spades and
Dan Riehl cautioned that we should resist jumping on the "
Pallywood" bandwagon without having support for the claims being made.
I wanted support to prove or disprove these allegations, and so I went to the people who should know most about the kind of vehicles damaged in the attack, armored vehicle manufacturers themselves.
I sent an email to these five armored vehicle manufacturers, asking them to look at the photo (above) that seems to be the center of the debate, and asked them two questions:
- Is this damage consistent with what you might expect from a 70MM rocket's warhead detonating roughly a foot above an civilian-manufactured armored vehicle such as the one pictured? If not, would you expect more damage, or less?
- People suspicious of the attack are citing the obvious rust around the impact site on the vehicle as proof that these are old markings, while the expert claims that vehicles can rust in this kind of climate in the short time mentioned. Does that sound logical, or would alloys used in civilian armored vehicles take longer to show this level of rust? Would you provide an estimate of how long it would take?
Within an hour, I had responses from representatives of two armored vehicle manufacturing companies.
David Khazanski of
Inkas Armored Vehicle Manufacturing responded first, stating:
Looking at the picture received through the link on your email, the damage on the vehicle was sustained very long time ago and probably not by the rocket, or it was already tempered [sic] with[.]
In no uncertain terms, Mr. Khazankski doubts that the vehicle was damaged recently, or by rocket fire, and suggests that the vehicle may have been tampered with.
Chris Badsey, chairman and CEO of
First Defense International Group, which has armored vehicles deployed in the Middle East and has professional knowledge of Israeli weaponry, graciously offered up a very detailed analysis of the vehicle in the photo above (minor spelling errors corrected):
1.) Firstly as an armouring company we are familiar with all weapons, weapons damage, collateral damage and the destruction of armoured vehicles from blasts and various types of rockets and ammunition.
2.) Secondly we are familiar with the Israeli weapons of choice and uses in the field as we continue to work with them and have a manufacturing relationship with them both in Israel and Iraq.
3.) Whether the Reuters vehicle was attacked by who I could not verify but In my expert opinion the damage, the hole is NOT consistent of a Hellfire Missile or a 70mm rocket nor any armoured piercing bullet/trajectory.
4.) The Reuters armoured van would only be armoured to threat level IV which would consist of 8mm of High Hard 4140 Steel armouring on the roof which you can see in the picture as peeled open somewhat. The damage to the roof looks to me very consistent with possible shrapnel penetration from an object other than a rocket or missile itself.
5.) Furthermore the armored glass would be 62mm for threat level IV protection against blasts and armour piercing rounds. The damage to the back window is certainly NOT consistent with any missile, bomb, rocket blast that would have occurred on impact if a rocket was fired around and directly at the vehicle.
Mr. Badsey went on to bring up a point that few of us seemed to have considered, and that is the primary blast effect involved in any explosive projectile used against an armored vehicle.
There are essential four kinds of blast effects (mechanisms) related to the detonation of any explosive device on the human body, and the first three carry over to the kind of damage we should expect warheads to have on vehicles.
They are:
- primary: Unique to high-order explosives; results from the impact of the overpressurization wave with body surfaces ;
- secondary: Results from flying debris and bomb fragments;
- tertiary: Results when bodies
are thrown by blast wind; - quaternary: All explosion-related injuries, illnesses, or diseases not due to primary, secondary, or tertiary mechanisms; includes exacerbation or complications of existing conditions
The vehicle in the picture above shows only very minor damage that some allege are consistent with the secondary, or shrapnel effect of a warhead detonating in close proximity. But a vehicle either hit by or suffering a near miss from a helicopter warhead would also sustain major primary blast damage, as shown below.
The photo above is of one of First Defense International Group's armored Ford Expeditions which was heavily damaged by an IED blast near Baghdad, Iraq. Note how the vehicle has been heavily dented by the blast. Teh hood is crumpled and the bumbers are destroyed. All bulletproof windows have been heavily damaged, with the left rear glass completely imploded (to FDI's credit, there were no casualties).
The Reuter's vehicle, however seems to show far less damage than one may expect. The sheet metal is not damaged, and the spider-webbing of the windshield would seem to be the only damage to the vehicle's glass. If a warhead detonated on or within feet of this vehicle as seems to be the claim, Mr. Badsey would have expected far more damage, what one word did he use to describe what we should see of this vehicle?
"Pieces."
It was preceded by the words, "nothing left but."
I then forwarded
this link to Mr. Badsey, and asked him if what he saw was consistent with the kind of damage he might expect from a 70MM rocket explosion above the vehicle as an intelligence expert opined to Allah at
Hotair.com.
He responded:
There is clearly no blast damage internally and only from some object inconsistent with any rocket or missile attack. I'm unable to see any burn or secondary explosion or markings from the picture so apologize for not been 100% able to see from this picture.
A 70mm rocket has certain features and destructive mechanisms that are not consistent in either pictures especially on entry and internal damage from what you have shown me.
The inside is too intact including the upholstery for this type of ammunition detonation on impact. It looks as if the armor was penetrated by probably flying shrapnel. Not consistent with missiles or rockets of any kind
And so here we stand, weighing conflicting stories.
Reuters says they were fired upon, and Israel agrees that they fired at a suspicious vehicle, but two armored vehicle experts state that the damage to this Reuters vehicle is not even close to being consistent with what they would expect from Israeli rockets or missiles. The first expert, Mr. Khazanski, indicated that he thinks the damage on the roof was sustained a "long time ago."
From what these experts tell me, it does not appear that the vehicle Reuters claimed was hit was hit by either a rocket or a missile, that the damage appears to be from some time prior to the attack, but that the damage may be consistent with shrapnel from something else.
Something damaged this Reuters armored vehicle, but when and how seems to be very much in doubt.
Update: Allah has another photo...
no rust. that would possibly rule out the the damage being old, but what precisely hit the vehicle is still up in the air.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:22 PM
| Comments (20)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Looked at Allah's photo. I am not sure that there has not been a replacement of rust with a dark gray. Possible? I don't know, not my area of expertise. But if that is primer, would it rust? It doesn't look like bare metal.
Posted by: Loren at August 30, 2006 02:21 PM (sIRhH)
2
I can't believe everyone is missing the completely different color of the ambulance. Whats the correct color? The allah shot is at night and the vehicle is very white and the reds are off. The daylight shot shows a more natural white and next to it a very bright white cars. The night picture has incorrect white balance. The basic question here is :
Which pictures color is correct? Then we will have the answer.
Posted by: NortonPete at August 30, 2006 02:30 PM (fVuwW)
3
The photo of the vehicle where the rust is "grey" is the only one taken at night, with a flash. Plug the flash picture into any photo-editing program, adjust the color balance so the white of the vehicle's exterior matches how it looks in the natural-daylight pics, and the spots that looked gray with a flash do indeed look like rust.
Posted by: hcq at August 30, 2006 02:37 PM (4vf9L)
4
Excellent analysis. I linked from Old War Dogs >> Bill's 2006.08.30 Short Shorts
Posted by: Bill Faith at August 30, 2006 03:12 PM (n7SaI)
5
Well, I was going to comment on the color differences, but that has been well discussed.
The interior shot with the damage is not the vehicle pictured twice (unlinked). Look at the interior damage in the windshield area and look at the front passenger door (the one missing); two different vehicles.
Now for the hole: ever notice the entrance hole made by high speed projectiles? Entrance holes are round or tubular if oblique. Metal, even armor metal hit by a high speed projectile like a Hydra 70 rocket would have a round entrance hole. Any explosion would have occurred inside so there would be interior explosion damage (swelling out of panels, glass blown out, etc.)
Tearing occurs when a mass moving at slow velocity contacts the metal, like a sledge hammer or chunk of flying concrete debris from a larger explosion (say perhaps a HELLFIRE or artillery round hitting a building nearby). The damage is definitely not characteristic of Hydra 70 rocket and definitely not characteristic of a HELLFIRE (the high explosive variant, not the anti-armor variant).
I submit the truth will probably never be known.
Posted by: Old Soldier at August 30, 2006 06:22 PM (owAN1)
6
Methinks there was dust on the rust:
http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2006_08_27.html#005980
And darn you, Bob, and your quick-responding armor experts!
Posted by: See-Dubya at August 30, 2006 06:34 PM (UodmQ)
7
I am no expert but I have a sneaking suspicion that when David Khazanski said tempered he actually meant tempered and not tampered as you have so helpfully suggested.
Posted by: Dicko at August 30, 2006 06:34 PM (+rGR2)
8
A little something else to put into the mix. The "rust" could be nothing more than the primer under the paint. In the U.S. we use mainly grey primer but also the "rust red" primer.
I have seen three photos of this vehicle. In two, the area around the hole is discolored red, in one it is discolored grey.
Photoshopping, development variations or just different lighting will change colors slightly in photos. I opt that this discoloration is primer exposed when the paint was knocked off by "something".
That something could be shrapnel, an earlier accident where something fell on the roof or prehaps an Alien weapon of some kind.
But in the end it makes no difference, the Arab PR dept. has convinced almost all Arabs that the Jews were trying to kill their Journalists.
Score another for the Arab Media, the same one's that Rummy is worried about.
He has good reason to worry.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Posted by: Papa Ray at August 30, 2006 06:51 PM (B6ERo)
9
Dicko - Highly doubtful, considering the context and the fact that "tempered with" doesn't make sense.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 30, 2006 06:56 PM (GNCtp)
10
"Dicko - Highly doubtful, considering the context and the fact that "tempered with" doesn't make sense."
What a lame response, brushing over the story by way of attention to a typo. In your heart are you trying to demonstrate the utmost imbecility?
Posted by: Dom at August 30, 2006 07:37 PM (ykuo9)
11
New rust is orange and uneven , old rust is red and everywhere.
I wish I could form a better song to those who bewhere...
Perhaps....
Rust Never Sleeps...
I work with metal of all types all day...
Posted by: NortonPete at August 30, 2006 07:41 PM (fVuwW)
12
Rust removal is done in 3 min in Photoshop (could be done a bit better, but didn't want to waste my time. Everything is clear, anyway).I wonder where the "original" "rustless" photo apeared at the first time?
Posted by: freedom4all at August 30, 2006 07:50 PM (R3ahb)
13
Rust removal is done in 3 min in Photoshop (could be done a bit better, but didn't want to waste my time. Everything is clear, anyway).I wonder where the "original" "rustless" photo apeared at the first time?
http://foto.mail.ru/inbox/freedom4all/Doctored_photo/1.html
Posted by: freedom4all at August 30, 2006 07:52 PM (R3ahb)
14
Dom - were you talking to me or Dicko? I was responding to Dicko's comment, not CY's post. To be clear, I think it's highly doubtful that David Khazanski meant "tempered with". "Tampered with" makes much more sense, as CY inferred. I agree with CY's interpretation.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 30, 2006 10:35 PM (1dTef)
15
You can see that the rust is not that comprehensive. unlike the ambulance and that it has a greyish to yellowish tone in some places where oxidation is not complete.
The edges of the paintwork or sticker for the word 'press' is raised and jagged, so is recent. The paint seems, but is hard to determine, seems to have been subjected to heat and faint staining may be present.
The metal of the hole is a tear and not a puncture. it is got characteristics with pressing down in a concentrated area untill it gives usually tearing along three points that make a triangle.
At a guess to me... Ummm Mortar round, small one. Someone was taking potshots fer a joke and got a hit by the looks. Give the journo's a shake up. lol nearly got em killed.
Posted by: j hansford at August 31, 2006 12:16 AM (rBX4j)
16
The journo's would've seen and heard choppers buzzin' about,as per usual. They would've been proceeding down a road and a sedate pace so as not to alarm anyone.
next second. Flash, Bang. Blood noses ruptured ear drums, woosh of hot air and stinging fragments, but mainly spurling and only small.
The first thought is, bang on roof plus helicopters. Awww the helicopter guy woz th' one wot did it. It wozzz him it tells ya!!!
But giggling and guffawin' away in a firing possition 2000 to 3000 meters away is a mortar team either Hezb' or Israeli, pissing themselves that they are soooo baaad, but ohhhh sooo goood LoL.
The road would've been all ranged in so its only their judgment that is good. But hats off, if it is like I've completely surmised. Damn fine shot!!
Posted by: j hansford at August 31, 2006 12:42 AM (rBX4j)
17
Here is a question I have not yet seen posed (except by me, because I keep asking!!). Who filmed the "injured" "victims" being rushed to the hospital? It wasn't the victims themselves, who were dutifully posed in full-tragic status (one having borrowed a slightly-bloodied jacket to wear over his pristine-white T-shirt). It wasn't with the victim's video camera, which was proudly displayed as covered in blood. How convenient was it that other camera crews were standing by? And, how convenient was it that there were at least TWO crews, and still photographers, waiting at the hospital for the dramatic arrival footage.
One other point. Look at the seats. They are, except for the blood, pristine. No holes at all. This rules out shrapnel, or pretty much anything except intentionally inflicted damage to the dash -- maybe someone was trying to steal the car radio.
Okay, one more point. The Reuters report said that the cameraman reported "FIRE" (in all caps, no less). But, there is absolutely nothing burned in the nicely-white-painted vehicle.
Just another day on the set in Paliwood. But, as I have said before, faked pics are only news if they make Katie Couric look thinner.
Posted by: Watergate at August 31, 2006 01:53 AM (BC1Xw)
18
FzxGkJssFrk,
I misunderstood. I didn't realise you were addressing anyone in particular and thought you were just trashing the story. Sorry for the wildly inappropriate insult! And Dicko is a lovely name.
Dom
Posted by: Dom at August 31, 2006 08:04 AM (BKtXQ)
19
Dom - Apology accepted, no harm done.
Posted by: FzxGkJssFrk at August 31, 2006 09:41 AM (DYedO)
20
Just some more crap by the arab media.
YW Editor.
Posted by: YW Editor at August 31, 2006 11:02 AM (5MQer)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Hit-and-Run in California
I'm admittedly late to commenting on the story of 29-year-old Omeed Aziz Popal, an Afghan native that went on a hit-and-run spree in San Francisco, wounding 14, after running down and killing a man in Freemont, California.
The immediate conclusion that some jumped to was that this was a Left Coast replay of March's
Jeep Jihad in Chapel Hill, where Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar decided to run-down UNC-Chapel Hill students because he did not like how Americans were treating Muslims.
I don't think that the motives in this case are clear yet, but he had been reported missing
three days ago, and there are early explanations range from saying that he was under a great deal of stress having recently gone through an
arranged marriage in Afghanistan, to possibly being
mentally ill by relatives.
If it is indeed the case that Popal's family sent a mentally ill man into an arranged marriage, I hope that the bride can get a
mulligan. Somehow, I doubt his claimed history of mental illness was revealed to his new in-laws.
Michelle Malkin has the round-up.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:34 AM
| Comments (1)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Didn't we here something recently about a Muslim who killed jewish people in Seattle? Didn't they (the authorities and family members)also say he was "mentally ill"?
Posted by: Ray Robison at August 30, 2006 04:21 PM (CdK5b)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 29, 2006
The Jews Did It
I'm sure it sounds better in the original German.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:50 PM
| Comments (3)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Remember kids, criticizing Israel is the same thing as advocating genocide.
/sarcasm.
Posted by: wah at August 29, 2006 01:11 PM (GOFVL)
2
Check this site for lebanese civilian testimony of hezbollah horrors during the war.
http://www.lebanonsvoices.com/
Posted by: jay at August 29, 2006 05:18 PM (XmzVd)
3
I'm not so sure about the "kids" part, but I'm sure he wanted to call Jewish people a word that started with a 'k'.
Posted by: brando at August 29, 2006 06:21 PM (K+VjK)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Will Thoretz Watch, Day One
Will Thoretz is the company spokesman for VNU Media, the company that owns Editor & Publisher and employs Editor Greg Mitchell, a man that has something of a "truth problem" according to Michael Silence, and seems to be on the wrong side of an example of "journalistic malpractice" according to Stephen Spruiell.
Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com
attempted to contact Mitchell at
Editor & Publisher for comment several times yesterday, but Mitchell has thus far decline to respond. Ham also tried to contact Will Thoretz of
Editor & Publisher's parent company, VNU Media, and while she was able to speak to his assistant, Thoretz has not responded to Ham to date.
Color me skeptical, but evidence indicating that one of your editors has severe ethical issues should demand an immediate response of some sort, unless, of course, the decision has been made to stonewall the story and hope it goes away.
Hopeing that this would not turn out to be the case, I sent the following email to Mr. Thoretz moments ago, hoping to spur him to action:
Dear Will Thoretz,
My name is Bob Owens, and I am the blogger that noticed Greg Mitchell's 2003 editorial admitting that he manufactured elements of a story as a young reporter, was suddenly changed within hours of my having linked it. I also know that you have been contacted by Mary Katharine Ham of Townhall.com regarding the unacknowledged and unethical rewrite of the 2003 column, a rewrite apparently designed to cast Mr. Mitchell in a more favorable light.
I have also noticed that while the article now features a correction to the timeline elements that Mitchell got wrong, it still includes elements of the rewrite (specifically the new addition of the phrase "as a summer intern" which did not exist before 4:00 PM Friday, Aug 26).
I would like to ask why this article has not been restored to the 2003 form in which it has existed for over three years until an unfavorable light was cast on Mitchell's admitted journalistic fraud, and why these changed elements are allowed to still exist without an acknowledgement that such changes took place.
The self-serving rewrite of Mr. Mitchell's column has been described as "journalistic malpractice," and I think the public has a right to know how this happened, who was responsible, and what policies will be put in place by VNU Media to keep such incidents from occurring in the future.
To date, I have noticed that Mr. Mitchell seems to be ducking phone calls from Ms. Ham, and you have not (to the best of my knowledge) responded to her either. I certainly hope that an effort to "stonewall" this issue is not underway, as that would be quite counterproductive to all concerned.
All it takes is a simple look to the server logs to conclusively identify who rewrote Mitchell's 2003 column late this past Friday afternoon. An even application of the kind of company policies I expect in any large media organization against this kind of unethical behavior should provide the remedy.
Please let me know what steps VNU Media intends to take to resolve this matter.
Thank you very much for your time.
Respectfully,
I certainly hope Mr. Thoretz and VNU Media will choose to publicly respond to this issue sooner rather than later. By now, they should know that the longer things linger the more time people have to dig, and the
worse things get, day by day.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:02 PM
| Comments (0)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
Shooting for Truth
With the exposure of the "Pallywood" staging of events in Lebanon and Gaza recently, it is perhaps expected that we look at recent claims that a Reuters news vehicle was hit by an Israeli air strike with a certain degree of skepticism, especially as similar attacks have been claimed recently, and convincingly debunked. The fact that Reuters' own reporting of the incident attempted to hide the identity of one of the journalists doesn't exactly lend their account of story much credibility.
And so much to his credit, AllahPundit has refused to take the easy way and assume that the Reuters air strike was faked. In fact,
he makes a decent case that case that not only did the strike probably occur, but that 2.75" (70MM) rockets were the likely munition used, based upon the logical comments of someone claiming to be an intel expert:
My second theory, which I think is a slightly more probable, is that the van was attacked with two 70mm unguided rockets. Apaches and other helicopters frequently carry pods with these rockets...
...Although unguided, at close range they are very accurate. This scenario would better fit the report of two rockets since they are usually fired in pairs. Although not definitive, the damage could easily have come from hit from one of these rockets. The 70mm rocket has a smaller warhead than the hellfire and is typically impact detonated. I think the damage seen is consistent with a rocket of this type.
Based upon the opinion of a long-time Army chopper jockey I know who is still active in the aerospace defense establishment, I'm not sure that Allah's expert is correct, but from where I sit, that is kind of beside the point. The point is that good bloggers keep searching for proof where others in the blogosphere and in the professional media often seem to choose a storyline and insert the facts to fit their preconceived biases.
We may never know conclusively what happened in this air strike, but Allah is exhausting every effort at his disposal to make the attempt, and it's something more of us should try to do, both media amateurs and professionals alike.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:48 AM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
I've read the 70mm rocket theory and even the "fast rust" explanation. Nonsense to me. Zombie's work has not been faulted.
Just where does a 70mm ( 2.75 inch ) rocket traveling at 2000 fps go when it hits something? Out the side or bottom causing tremendous damage. ( see zombie's picts of a real attack ).
I have the hi res Red Cross shot before they removed it. New rust is orange old rust is deep red. And the flange is clean. By the way there are many footprints on the roof. Just look for them.
Posted by: NortonPete at August 29, 2006 05:17 PM (fVuwW)
2
There was no penetration of the ambulance through the roof but the "clean" edge of the flange has torn screw holes. That is consistent with the vent cover being ripped off. The indentation of the roof and the pitting are consistent with a warhead detonating above the vehicle. Overpressure would dent things in, blow doors off.
The level of oxidation (rust) depends upon several factors such as the temperature of the blast and the shrapnel, as well as the chemical composition of the explosive used in the warhead.
What bothers me most about these discussions on the Qana ambulances and the Gaza TV vehicle is that far too many people make way too many assumptions and cling to them as fact. And it happens with other elements of this campaign as well. The baby pacifier that is allegedly planted because it is clean? It's not clean, or at least no more clean than the patch of green on the child's shorts and shirt on the same left side.
As for the F-16 flare photo that is allegedly a fake, that's another prime example of little proof being stretched into a major campaign of criticism. F-16s do drop in a dive, they do ripple off three bombs in an attack run and they DO deploy flares that look almost identical to one another, at least for the short time involved in the distance that they are from the aircraft in the Reuters photo.
I asked for one blogger to explain how he concluded that this was photoshopped and all he would say is that some unidentified expert told him so--so there. No name, no credentials, no documentation. How many times have the mainstream media been pounded on if they refused to answer queries or didn't respond in a timely fashion? Why do bloggers seem to feel that they have special rights to behave deifferently than what they demand of the media?
Make no mistake, I am absolutely no fan of the media. In fact, I became so disgusted over the incompetence and ignorance of reporters, photographers and editors that I coined the term "mediots" to describe media idiots. They don't know the difference between an armored personnel carrier and a tank, any more than they know a rocket from a missile. I strongly agree with demanding a higher standard of excellence form them, but I also demand it of the blogosphere as well. If not, what is the real difference between the MSM and the bloggers?
There is a tendency to over-reach and take things over the top. Last night, I saw a HOTAIR VENT episode by Michelle Malkin, where she showed tape of terorists using ambulances against the Geneva Conventions guidelines for their exemption from combat. Great. It spoke for itself. But then she threw in this Qana rocket hit story, the rust, how it couldn't have been damaged by the Israelis (even though they admitted and apologized), and so on. Credibility sank. The video of the enemy illegally using the ambulances in battle was diminished and diluted.
The biggest danger--and I have repeated this time and time again, without any apparent success--is that making assumptions, speculating and tossing accusations will cost us dearly when the enemy finds an easy way to disprove some of the claims being voiced in these and other pages.
Too many so-called experts voice their opinions without being checked out or proving their cases with documented fact. Recently, one blog had a comment from somebody claiming to be a former pilot who just knew that the F-16 photo was a fake because Aor Force planes drop their bombs wings-level. Take it to the bank, this former officer was just adamant. And he was dead wrong. The F-16 definitely does drop bombs in a dive. I have the photos to prove it and the personal experience to stand behind that. As an imagery interpreter, I used to score their hits on the bombing ranges, plotting out the impact points on imagery.
The problem is that you had comments from a guy who based his opinions--not facts, but opinions--on past experience without keeping abreast of the current technology of doing any research. That is about as lazy as most newspaper reporters, and why so many of them get a story dead wrong, roo. We have to do better than the papers and be bulletproof against enemy accusations of lies and fraud. This is NOT a game, but part of what is known as information warfare. It needs to be taken much more seriously and treated with more caution. Credibility is all-important but very easy to lose. Like virginity, once it is gone, there is no getting it back.
Posted by: RONALD LEWIS at August 31, 2006 03:15 PM (1wBAs)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Lesson Unlearned

A battered Mardi Gras float in a Gretna, LA, warehouse destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.
One year ago today, Hurricane Katrina made its second and third landfalls as a Category 3 Hurricane. While the media continues to portray Katrina as the "perfect storm" because of the destruction it caused in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, the simple fact is that Katrina could have been far worse. New Orleans
did not suffer a direct hit.
At some point in the unforeseen future, the perfect storm
will hit New Orleans, and the billions of dollars we are pumping into rebuilding the city will be realized for the misallocation of funds that it is as it slides beneath the waves for a final time, perhaps with a far greater loss of life than the 1,836 souls that were lost when Katrina bypassed New Orleans.
We should have learned; you don't build a major city in a hole in a swamp surrounded by the Mighty Mississippi on the once side and the Gulf of Mexico on the other an expect it to last. Katrina should have been our wake-up call to relocate or abandon the Big Easy for higher ground; instead we are
pumping millions of dollars into a city that the Army Corps of Engineers predicted would fall into the sea within 50 years even before Katrina chewed up an already receding Louisiana coastline.

A pre-Katrina map of what the Louisiana coastline may look like in less than 50 years.
We have not learned the lessons that this mighty near miss tried to teach us, and are now doomed to repeat our mistake in the future. It is arrogant and foolish to think Band-Aid solutions will resurrect a city so close to its natural death.
So what would have been the "proper" response to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina? Rebuilding elsewhere. Surely, the millions of dollars flowing into the slowly drowning city of New Orleans would have been better spent in relocating it to higher ground further inland, where it could have a legitimate chance to rebuild and prosper, instead of looking forward to the dark further of The Next Time, when the futility of our efforts to combat the forces of nature will be realized on a stark day after.
But instead we rebuild New Orleans to fail, no stronger, weaker in many regards, and doomed to repeat as scene of massive tragedy. We have failed to learn from the recent past, and will be forced to live with the consequences in the future.
Update: In the comments, some folks are making the correct observation that not all of New Orleans flooded as a result of Hurricane Katrina, and that some spots are indeed above sea level. To them I say, "for now."
New Orleans, on average, is eight feet below sea level, and sinking three
feet per century.
The simple fact of the matter is that all of New Orleans (and the Mississippi Delta in general) is built upon a bed of silt hundreds of feet thick, and this fine material is constantly compacting. The rate of subsidence varies from spot to spot, but all of the Mississippi delta is subsiding, and all of New Orleans is sinking along with it.
That is according to the
U.S Geological Survey.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:12 AM
| Comments (52)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
There's another dimension to this discussion. Just after Katrina, I passed the following on to Dale Franks at QandO, who posted it here:
"If New Orleans is rebuilt below sea level, have we not just shown our terrorist enemies what one well-placed truck bomb would do? A ton or thereabouts of fertilizer and fuel oil would be all that would needed to submerge New Orleans again."
I've thought about it since then, and I can't find any flaw in that analysis. Unless there is going to be a 24 hour guard on the entire levee system, this still looks to be a quite feasible strategem. And, with no notice to evacuate, the loss of life would likely be worse than with Katrina.
Posted by: Billy Hollis at August 29, 2006 08:53 AM (mSHw6)
2
Much of the Netherlands is below see level. They actually had a flood that lost more than a 3rd of the country. The question the nation should be asking itself is are we willing to spend the resources to re-build and maintain NewOrleans in the current location.
Posted by: james at August 29, 2006 08:54 AM (fbEgb)
3
Like most all-or-nothing examinations, we end up with a baby tossed with the bathwater. Just as it's foolish to rebuild New Orleans just as it was, it's equally foolish to abandon the city to the crows. Not all of New Orleans is 20 feet under sea level. Much of New Orleans - in fact, much of the nicer part - is in areas of much higher standing. Of course, what happened is that as the city grew, the poorer elements could only afford to expand into housing in the least desireable areas - those most prone to flooding.
New Orleans is a very viable city with important port, industrial, and tourism industries. There is no reason to restore the blight that was much of the 9th ward - these areas should be restored to marshland condition. But there is no reason to turn New Orleans into Machu Pichu either...
MEC2
Posted by: MEC2 at August 29, 2006 08:59 AM (KzFNw)
4
No doubt, your general warning about lessons not being properly learned is going to turn out to be true. I'm willing to bet the levees won't be rebuilt to the necessary standards, etc. I'd be delighted to be wrong about this, but I doubt it.
However, I'm not sure it is possible to evade the need to rebuild NO altogether. A major portion of the USA's agricultural and manufacturing products for export reach the sea via the Mississippi River. There appears to be no way around the need to have a major seaport in this location, and that implies a place to live for all the people who operate it, and the attendant service industries, etc.
It might be easier to relocate the people needed to operate all the petroleum industry in the area, although they too still have to live someplace.
Posted by: Mike at August 29, 2006 09:00 AM (frDhF)
5
And apparently for Mr. Owens, the answer is no. Fine, thanks for your input. Your analysis of the situation is incorrect, and James' citation to the Netherlands is entirely appropriate. You also fail to take into account that the wetlands on the Gulf Coast have been degraded not by natural causes, but because of oil and gas exploration and exploitation, and because we have redirected the flow of several rivers, chief among them the Mississippi. The important point from that being that we can repair the damage, and at a cost which allows us to maintain the port of New Orleans in its current location, as well as the current oil and gas activities.
People who propose "relocating" New Orleans somewhere else often suggest it as an alternative to the expensive process of rebuilding. 100% of those same people, however, fail to even estimate the cost of actually relocating New Orleans. To say nothing of the cost in human suffering such a "relocation" would entail. Reminds me of certain folks who talk about "relocating" Israel to Europe. Makes about as much sense too.
Many of us in New Orleans want to see the City rebuilt on a smaller footprint, utilizing the higher-ground areas of the City. At the current time, it appears that won't happen; that people will be free to rebuild wherever they wish, though without the protection of insurance, and without much in the way of federal assistance.
Congrats on the Instalanche.
Posted by: Robert at August 29, 2006 09:05 AM (/mlzI)
6
Oh, and another thing: From what I've seen of those levees, a truck bomb is going to do little more than singe the grass on them. You'd need an unbelieveable amount of explosives to have much effect on earth structures of that size without drilling dynamite holes in very carefully chosen locations.
Posted by: Mike at August 29, 2006 09:06 AM (frDhF)
7
I agree with you.
If the people of New Orleans want to live below sea level, below river level and below lake level they should do it on their dime. It's not the governments responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.
I said the same thing once on wizbang and paul replaced the body of my post with "I'm a freakin Idiot".
Posted by: tracelan at August 29, 2006 09:10 AM (ZlXVq)
8
New Orleans has so many geographical disadvantages, that you can be pretty sure it wouldn't be there unless it had to. And New Orleans has to be there, because we must have a port to transfer river cargo to ocean-going ships, and vice versa. the Mississippi River is the main artery of America. To run the port we must have people there.
The threat from terrorists is (I think) from the Mississippi River. You could put a whole lot of fuel oil in a large boat and detonate it against a levee, and the river is already well above sea level in New Orleans. If the river levee was breached, it would make Katrina look paltry in comparison. All that silt would cover New Orleans.
Don't think truck bomb. Think ship bomb. I hope/assume the proper officials have considered this.
Posted by: RSM at August 29, 2006 09:26 AM (nyz5H)
9
I doubt the Netherlands is built on hundreds of feet of silt.
Posted by: Ross at August 29, 2006 09:41 AM (EZmj/)
10
The population of today's New Orleans, much less pre-Katrina, isn't even required for the running of the ports and the petroleum infrastructure.
Posted by: Ross at August 29, 2006 09:46 AM (EZmj/)
11
RSM:
That's a good point. A ship could easily hold an "unbelieveable amount of explosives".
Does anyone know - is there any kind of group out there, government sponsored or not, that is studying this problem? We basically need at least 0.5 million people or so to be able to live in a really bad spot. Is there any way to rebuild the city while avoiding the below sea level problem?
Posted by: Mike at August 29, 2006 09:49 AM (frDhF)
12
Yeah, tell it to the Dutch. And actually the polder are both built on silt and rather more than 8 feet below sea level.
Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) at August 29, 2006 09:51 AM (oqRrU)
13
I live just north of New Olreans in Covington, la. Although I agree that the city needs to be rebuilt smarter I don't agree that it should not rebuilt at all. Some of you act like N.O. is the only major city in America that is on a receding coastline or has other natural disaster issues. You can say the same thing about So Cal and the massive fault lines running through the worlds 5th largest economy, or the entire coast of South Florida or NYC itself that will one day get the "big" hurricane that puts 10 feet of water right through the heart of the worlds economic center of Wall Street. Should we relocate every major American city to the mid-west? The truth is if we can send hundreds of millions to help other people who live under Islamic dictators (see Lebanon for a recent example) we can most certainly spend some money rebuilding what is the most culturally significant and historic city in the United States. But also remember that the Corps of Engineers itself has taken the blame for the flooding in New Orleans. If they had designed the levees properly in the first place then they would have held and we would not be having this conversation (at least in relation to Lakeview and the Lower 9th). I am scared for anyone else that lives anywhere that they depend on the CoE providing their ultimate flood protection. But bottom line is we are Americans and, just like when I was in the Army, we don't abandon our dead on the battlefield and we should not abandon NO b/c it might get too "expensive". After all, if any of the above places mentioned get the worst case scenerio then it will make the money we spend in NO look like loose change.
Posted by: justin at August 29, 2006 10:44 AM (wdZf0)
14
I put up a summary of my views here. Basically covers it from the geophysics to the ports and petrochemical complex and why giving terrorists a 3-fer is a bad idea.
If you want tax dollars to do something then: save the core of the city and put the population somehwere *else* that is safer. I suggest inland with high-speed rail and limited access highways to the old city or a floating city. Open the Atchafalaya and get the delta to rebuilding itself as we have done a damn poor job at that. I always want there to *be* a New Orleans, but the city itself is sinking and that cannot be *fixed* by current state of the art anything.
That *includes* the dutch and Venice, neither of which have the turbid flow of the Mississippi to deal with nor uncompacted sediment for hundreds of feet before getting to actual rock.
Posted by: ajacksonian at August 29, 2006 10:48 AM (4rGOl)
15
I love the non-Southerners quick-to-pronounce New Orleans a "dead" city and call for it's abandonement. I'll support that when we also decide to abandon Malibu because of wild fires or La or San Francisco for building on fault lines. Hell, what the fires don't burn or the earthquakes shake loose the mudslides wipe out. Every one outta of California pronto. Don't you know scientists predict within the next 50 years a major earthquake will devastate you? Wasn't 1906 and the most recent quake collapsing that roadway enough warning?
My Gods, Las Vegas is in a DESERT forchristsakes so we should get rid of it.
And all you states way up north getting year after year of snowfall costing millions and billions of dollars in wasted road repairs not tomention the amount of fuel oil and coal you guys burn trying to stay warm--close up shop, move further south.
Except stay out of the mid-west because of the tornadoes.
Sorry Confederate Yankee, but you and the other "abandon NO now!" crowd are full of BS. When I see other major cities built in crappy places being shut down I'll entertain the thought of NO closing up. Till then, just shut the hell up.
Posted by: Faith+1 at August 29, 2006 11:01 AM (fj2jP)
16
My understanding is that the Mississippi further upstream is straining to change course down the Atchafalaya basin, that there's a huge structure to prevent that, but it nearly failed in 1973.
Doesn't the prospect of the river someday bypassing Baton Rouge and New Orleans altogether raise even more questions? Once the genie is out of the bottle and the river is flowing well west of New Orleans on a much sharper downhill angle, I don't know how they can redivert the water back to the old channel (I'm not an engineer, maybe that can be done).
Posted by: Jeff at August 29, 2006 11:09 AM (zTEiB)
17
The flooded areas of Lousiana, Mississippi and Alabama should not be rebuilt. They should be turned into wetland so the people that are left have a better chance when the next hurricane comes. The people who were flooded out, should be helped financially only if they decide to abandon their old neighborhoods.
I live in San Francisco, and when the next earthquake comes, I do not expect help from anyone. I live their of my own volition, I know the risks, and I don't expect anyone else to subsidize my choices.
Posted by: keith at August 29, 2006 11:17 AM (ppwFS)
18
I saw on the news this morning that Nagin is close to having a plan to develop a plan for the city. That made me feel real good to know that all is taken care of.
I live in Louisiana. NO has been a thorn in this states side for over a hundred years. The best thing that could have happened to the state was Katrina. Just look at Houston and other cities that took in the refugees and see the what these people can do. I would note that one of the Dutch system is very elaborate and very expensive. That means you need a productive population to support such a concept and NO citizens are not productive.
The oil and gas can be administered via heads and most of this is taken care of south of Baton Rouge (I used to work off shore). As to cargo, that is necessary but can be taken care of with a very small footprint.
If a tornado were to take my home away, is the Federal government responsible for rebuilding it and the community?? No. And it never should be. The problem in NO is not the problem of the US. It is local and should remain so. If you send money down here with the intent to rebuild that stink hole then our elected officals will steal it. That is the plain and simple truth. If we can get rid of a few more 9th wards then we might be able to elect people who are not criminals.
Posted by: David Caskey at August 29, 2006 11:23 AM (6wTpy)
19
Some of you act like N.O. is the only major city in America that is on a receding coastline or has other natural disaster issues.
No, I think they're saying New Orleans is below sea level, and it is certainly the only major city in the US that is. Every drop of water that lands in New Orleans either evaporates or gets pumped out. Period.
My understanding is that the Mississippi further upstream is straining to change course down the Atchafalaya basin, that there's a huge structure to prevent that, but it nearly failed in 1973.
I've actually thought that THAT would be the right target for a terrorist.
Posted by: RSM at August 29, 2006 11:57 AM (nyz5H)
20
keith,
noble thoughts from a San Fran native but lots of federal dollars is exactly what is and what was spent to rebuild the West coast after damn near every seasonal disaster the West coast experiences. As I said, I'd support the idea abandoning the Southern areas hit when the likes of you advocate abandoning the collosal waste of money spent to keep you guys in over-priced real estate.
Until then your cries for "close it down" are just the rantings of a elitist, anti-Southern snob.
Posted by: Faith+1 at August 29, 2006 12:00 PM (fj2jP)
21
My Gods, Las Vegas is in a DESERT forchristsakes so we should get rid of it.
Actually, Las Vegas is on my list as the third most-likely American city to be abandoned after Detroit.
Consider that the very existence of Las Vegas is based on three things: cheap energy, cheap travel (which, really, is an extension of #1) and cheap water. All of which are rapidly becoming in short supply...
Posted by: Miles at August 29, 2006 12:03 PM (FXUzb)
22
Hey Faith+1,
Born and raised in Virginia, thank you very much. In fact, I lived a few miles from the beach, and only a few feet above sea level. I have been in more hurricanes than I can count, and my family was prepared for them all. If it got too dangerous, we left.
I brought that philosophy to San Fran. I rent because I am not going to buy on a fault zone. I have enough food and emergency equipment to last weeks without aid, etc. etc.
I don't support all the aid California gets in the futile hopes of staving off the inevitable earthquake. Just like I don't support the aid that the gulf is getting to rebuild in a lake bed, in a hurricane zone. Both efforts are a foolish waste of money and resources.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 12:12 PM (ppwFS)
23
Keith,
A foolish waste of money is Social Security. Let's give people a reason not to save or attempt to be upwardly mobile under the false premise that Uncle Sam will take care of you. Then give them only enough money after 40 years of contributions to keep them in the poor house. Very smart use of federal resources. Now that is a waste of tax dollars and resources. However, most of us accept that expenditure. The point is someone can argue that almost every dollar spent by the federal govt and not by you are I is a waste of money. The money collected will be spent somewhere trust me. At least this way it gets spent helping people and not lining some senators best friends son's back pocket via a suspicious land deal. I'd rather that. after all it is not as if our massive tax burden is going to be lowered signigicantly any time soon and real saving to real americans is going to result. Now go over to porkbusters and help us find out who is blocking finding out where the real waste of money is.
Posted by: justin at August 29, 2006 12:29 PM (lCmJm)
24
I reread my comments, and they seem harsher than I meant. I love New Orleans, and I am very disturbed by the deaths and damage. My argument is we should not try to mollify our pain by rebuilding in the specific areas that mother nature has reclaimed. The people that suffered loss should be helped when they agree to live somewhere else.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 12:34 PM (ppwFS)
25
In the winter of 1976, I relocated from Texas to Washington state and, as luck would have it, a tire blew on my trailer late at night on absolutely the worst spot on the trip, a high-wind area in Wyoming.
Local people told me that stretch of the Interstate was a disaster. Highways had always avoided it because snow and high winds combine to make it inpassible in the winter. But the Federal government, with its deep pockets, thought they could defeat nature. They poured millions into snow barriers etc., all to no available. Years later I drove through that stretch of highway again and discovered that they'd put a winter bypass in to avoid that deadly stretch.
We need to do the same with New Orleans. Leave the high ground for tourism and protect it well. Keep people from building in the low-lying areas and let nature take it over, something that'll eventually be a tourist attraction in itself. New Orleans is fated to become an Island in the Gulf. Nothing we do will change that.
--Mike Perry, Seattle
Posted by: Mike Perry at August 29, 2006 12:37 PM (67euc)
26
Porkbusters, yes I definitely support that.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 12:38 PM (ppwFS)
27
So for those of you predicting the inevitability of NO's demise, where do you stand on modifying the return we get on our oil and gas leases, so we can start to address the coastal erosion that exacerbated the effects of Katrina? And to the guy who talked about NO being a "thorn in the side" of La, brother, there ain't crap in this state worth saving beyond NO. Feel free not to visit.
Posted by: Robert at August 29, 2006 12:45 PM (t3QZb)
28
I don't predict NO's demise, but I will jump in. People and corporations should be responsible for themselves. If they damage the environment by causing the coast to erode, then they should pay.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 01:07 PM (ppwFS)
29
Listening to you know-nothings make pronouncments on New Orleans is like listening to leftists make similarly ignorant statements about economies. I could use your same arguments to make a case for abandoning the entire state of Florida, which is enduring yet another storm right now.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: Peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 02:15 PM (LQEWm)
30
And by the way Houston, pack your bags:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806E6D71138F935A1575AC0A964948260
Constant change is here to stay. Grow up and get used to it.
:peter.
Posted by: Peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 02:18 PM (LQEWm)
31
Peter Jackson
I could use your same arguments to make a case for abandoning the entire state of Florida, which is enduring yet another storm right now.
Apples and Oranges. Last I checked, Florida was not below sea level.
Posted by: RSM at August 29, 2006 02:41 PM (TwwKH)
32
I don't mind constant change, but I do mind paying for it needlessly.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 03:20 PM (ppwFS)
33
I’ve noticed that many here are trying to make comparisons with New Orleans and other areas that are prone to certain kinds of disasters, which are, without exception, invalid.
While other areas are prone to certain kinds of temporary disasters, these areas face these disasters quite infrequently, so infrequently that entire generations have lived and died with knowing the disasters to which their areas are most famously prone.
New Orleans, on the other hand, with as much geological certainty as modern science gives us, will become part of the Gulf of Mexico, and it is simply a matter of time as to when that eventuality will come to pass. New Orleans as a whole is sinking at an average of three feet per century, in a city already averaging eight feet below sea level. Combined with a coastline disappearing into the Gulf of Mexico at a rate of 25 square miles per year, and the fate of New Orleans, from a geological standpoint, is sealed.
Folks can argue against what geology and oceanography assure us, pleading sociology, economics and politics if you so desire, but there is little chance that the ocean will listen.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 29, 2006 03:40 PM (g5Nba)
34
The loss of coastal wetlands -- our natural buffer -- is a phenomenon of the last 70 years. The subsidence and erosion are the direct result of human actions. The first is the levees only flood policy of the corps of engineers that keeps the Mississippi in its banks. The second is the free rein the petroleum industry had to criss-cross the wetlands with access canals. The poorly designed and implemented levees that ultimately flooded New Orleans when stresses far far less than they were supposed to be designed for were exerted upon them is only the last in a long line of failures. Katrina is an entirely man-made disaster and there is a man-made solution that does not require relocation. Reputable scientists by and large agree that this is a solvable, reversible And the price tag is not as high as many believe. Grant the state the oil drilling revenues other states already have and the necessary dollars are there.
New Orleans has been here longer than America has been a country. What happens here has huge implications for the rest of the country. This same process is already happening to Miami. New York is in significant danger too. We are the proverbial canary in a coal mine.
The notion of just relocating an entire city is absurd on its face. The fact that we taxpaying american citizens have to justify our right to exist is deeply offensive.
linkage:
http://afterthelevees.tpmcafe.com/blog/afterthelevees/2006/aug/29/we_are_not_ok
- directly addresses your ideas
http://www.suspect-device.com/20060823.jpg - What Americans know about what happened here
Posted by: Scott Harney at August 29, 2006 05:32 PM (DECmu)
35
Apples and Oranges. Last I checked, Florida was not below sea level.
In the face of 20+ foot storm surges, yours is a distinction without much of a difference.
Besides, go over to Wizbang and read Paul's post. Katrina didn't flood New Orleans, the Federal government did.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 05:47 PM (LQEWm)
36
Folks can argue against what geology and oceanography assure us, pleading sociology, economics and politics if you so desire, but there is little chance that the ocean will listen.
Your appeal to scientific authority is ridiculous. Those are all simply extrapolations, not scientific conclusions. ALL coastlines, escpecially those at the mouths of rivers, are dynamic and always have been. WHEREVER the Mississippi meets the ocean will always lay low and always be prone to damage from the natural dynamics of weather and water relative to inland locales. Besides, the Mississippi has routinely flooded over the known history along almost it's entire length.
Not to mention that ALL cities, by there very nature as places where lots of people occupy a small space, are vulnerable to catastrophe, whether it's fire, earthquakes, flooding, terrorism, or what have you.
Your argument, reasoned out to it's implications, is a Luddite argument against civilization as we know it.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 06:02 PM (LQEWm)
37
If the people of New Orleans want to live below sea level, below river level and below lake level they should do it on their dime. It's not the governments responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity.
Excuse me, but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT by LAW owns all of the navigable waterways of this nation. As the OWNER, it is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S responsibility to keep ITS PROPERTY out of other people's property. Jesus, the Federal government built the freakin' Intercostal Canal between WWI and WWII, the body of water responsible for the most damage to New Orleans proper: Mid City and the Ninth Ward. So your argument that the Federal government doesn't share in the responsibility of what happened to NO is simply not legally or morally valid.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 06:15 PM (LQEWm)
38
The comparison with the Netherlands is inappropriate, as there is no river delta involved in the Netherlands, and the soil is far more stable. NO is built on much, which is not being replenished as he has been for thousands of years, so it is subsiding, and will continue to do so until the water course is restored.
We channel the MIssissippi and the velocities increase, and the suspended solids in the river which USED to settle into the river delta NOW rocket out over the continental shelf. That's why so much wetland has been destroyed over the last 300 years.
Posted by: a civil engineer of long practice at August 29, 2006 06:33 PM (uHRYR)
39
Also, the Netherlands, while it's hit by storms, isn't getting hit by storms as big. Europe's simply not being hit by category 3-5 hurricanes, so their job is easier.
Posted by: Nate at August 29, 2006 06:53 PM (mcqA/)
40
"In the face of 20+ foot storm surges, yours is a distinction without much of a difference."
I don't think someone should live in a city that experiences 20+ foot storm surges on a regular basis either.
"ALL coastlines, especially those at the mouths of rivers, are dynamic and always have been. WHEREVER the Mississippi meets the ocean will always lay low and always be prone to damage from the natural dynamics of weather and water relative to inland locales. Besides, the Mississippi has routinely flooded over the known history along almost it's entire length."
When the Mississippi flooded over large parts of its length in the 90's those people did not rebuild on the water's edge. They moved to higher ground, which is what I am advocating for NO.
"Not to mention that ALL cities, by there very nature as places where lots of people occupy a small space, are vulnerable to catastrophe, whether it's fire, earthquakes, flooding, terrorism, or what have you."
These risks are not comparable to the risk of New Orleans flooding. Except for cities on fault zones (which I don't think should be subsidized either) all of these risks are not inevitable.
"Excuse me, but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT by LAW owns all of the navigable waterways of this nation. As the OWNER, it is the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S responsibility to keep ITS PROPERTY out of other people's property."
Using this logic, the below sea level portions of New Orleans should be considered navigable waterways. Why are people living on Federal Government Property?! The government should just tell them to leave.
Posted by: Keith at August 29, 2006 07:02 PM (ppwFS)
41
Gross ignorance. You do NOT have your facts straights. Just for starters, the average elevation of New Orleans is NOT eight feet below sea level. That is the maximum depth, not the average, and the place where it is eight feet is in "New Orleans East", which is part of the parish and city, but is not within the city "proper", and is separated from the city proper by the Industrial Canal, and that figure is not representative of any part of the city proper. If you can't do your homework, don't open your mouth.
--a New Orleanian, who has done his own agonizing about whether or not the city should be rebuilt, and is willing to hear all opinions on the subject provided they are informed opinions, not ignorant opinions.
Posted by: MO at August 29, 2006 07:30 PM (kTwWZ)
42
In the face of 20+ foot storm surges, yours is a distinction without much of a difference.
After the storm, when it's time for the water to flow back into the ocean, it is all the difference in the world. Every drop of water in New Orleans gets pumped out. Name a place in Florida where a similar situation occurs.
Besides, go over to Wizbang and read Paul's post.
What's a "wizbang"?
Katrina didn't flood New Orleans, the Federal government did.
Huh? So New Orleans was going to flood on that date even if the sun was shining? I'm, that's just plain ludicrous. Would you say the same about an earthquake in LA?
Posted by: RSM at August 29, 2006 08:57 PM (TwwKH)
43
OK, I found out what a Wizbang was, and read the report. Interesting...
Posted by: RSM at August 29, 2006 09:10 PM (TwwKH)
44
After the storm, when it's time for the water to flow back into the ocean, it is all the difference in the world. Every drop of water in New Orleans gets pumped out. Name a place in Florida where a similar situation occurs.
Well aside from the fact that the pumping system required is already in place in NO and it in fact only took about three weeks to pump out the entire city...so what? The damage is done. Now we're not talking about vulnerability to disaster, we're talking about a recovery issue, specifically dewatering. The surge flowed back out in southern Mississippi too, and took Biloxi, Gulf Port, Pass Christian, Waveland, etc. with it.
Ironically, I just got finished watching a cable program demonstrating exactly what a Cat3 hurricane with an 18 foot storm surge would do to New York City. Street level of most of Manhattan wiped out, the port wiped out, millions of high-rise windows blown out, streets bombarded with antennae and water tanks from the tops of buildings, subways filled wit corrosive sea water for weeks or months—it wasn't pretty. I guess we better "move" it.
And I'm sorry, it was thoughtless of me not to include a link to the WizBang post. I just figured anyone reading this blog would also be familiar with WizBang.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 09:36 PM (LQEWm)
45
Using this logic, the below sea level portions of New Orleans should be considered navigable waterways. Why are people living on Federal Government Property?! The government should just tell them to leave.
I'm sorry, but you will have to do a little more than just assert this. By your logic, Death Valley California is a navigable waterway.
All analogies break down at some point, but many simply never make it out of the gate. Yours is an example of the latter.
yours/
peter.
Posted by: peter Jackson at August 29, 2006 09:42 PM (LQEWm)
46
The most important difference between New Orleans and the Netherlands is that while both are mostly below seal level, the Netherlands is populated by serious, industrious Dutchmen who can be trusted to maintain the complex infrastructure that keeps the water out of their homes. The Dutch are not a pack of jackasses with a laissez le bon temps roulez attitude who can only be persuaded to stop electing criminals into public office if the alternative is a race baiting idiot.
I met an old guy who had worked for the Corps of Engineers years ago. He said that he had hated working in Louisiana because politicians were always trying to find new ways to siphon of the money allocated to build flood control structures and the contractors were always trying to cheat and use substandard materials or not do the work to spec. The thing that bugged him most of all was that they were not a bit ashamed when he caught them, viewing the whole thing as a game. They refused to comprehend that the things that he kept catching them trying to do could cause the structures to fail and cause a flood.
New Orleans was always in competition with Detroit and Washington DC to be the murder capital of America but the one category where New Orleans never had any competition was as the most corrupt city in the United States.
The flood was a man made disaster. It was caused by the corruption and incompetence that is "just the way we do things here" in New Orleans.
Fine. Rebuild your city just the way it was, 20 feed below sea level in the deeper parts and an average of 8 feet below sea level. Just don't ask us to send you more money. It will just be stolen anyway.
Posted by: Mark in Texas at August 29, 2006 10:23 PM (RjwXP)
47
The Netherlands is in the same spot, but they've spent billions building sea walls and building up their land, and they never get hurricanes.
Maybe, given the fact that it's still The Big Easy, the city should take a tip from the Japanese whose homes used to be constructed of bamboo and paper because of the frequent earthquakes. If they rebuild, they should build everything out of styrofoam. It floats.
Posted by: AST at August 29, 2006 11:47 PM (FN9Es)
48
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that most people don't know this.
New Orleans itself sits on a major fault line, the Michoud Fault. The fault runs directly through the Ninth Ward and is and has been literally splitting the city apart.
Not only is New Orleans "sinking" it's also "sliding" away from the northern headwall and falling into the gulf.
I agree that rebuilding New Orleans into a remnant of her former self is an extremely bad idea, virtually suicidal, but I also suggest strongly that it needs to be rebuilt (right where it is) for political, emotional and economic reasons.
The New New Orleans does not have to, nor should it, look like it's former self. It should be small and compact and densly populated, like Manhattan or San Francisco, let New Orleans trade happen in New Orleans, just don't let hundreds of thousands of people who don't need to live there, live there.
I could go on and on, but I'd be wasting someone else's space, so I'll just leave this link with my thoughts on this earlier and provide a bit of information about the Michoud fault which runs right through the city (not even San Francisco has a fault line running through the city, the fault is out in the bay, close enough, but I think the readers here can grasp the point).
http://www.jasoncoleman.com/BlogArchives/2006/04/oh_damn_its_jus.html
--Jason
Posted by: Jason Coleman at August 30, 2006 01:37 PM (As32a)
49
Ready John Barry's editorial today published in the USA today. Mr Barry is the author of "Rising Tide" and an authority on this very subject.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-08-29-katrina-forum_x.htm
Posted by: Scott Harney at August 30, 2006 02:48 PM (DECmu)
50
I am tired of hearing that we should be rebuilt by now - or quit wasting OUR tax money....
Every one of my neighbors with the exception of 1 (who was busy rebuilding her elderly parents home)has rebuilt or is near finished rebuilding their house. Of course we are one of the fortunate neighborhoods because we only had 4 feet of water to come home to after Katrina.
After spending almost $1800 to evacuate (not to mention lost wages) that $2000 we got from FEMA to cover our evacuation expenses, left us a big $200 extra ... sure got me some nice breast implants - please give me a break and my husband loves his season tickets - he got box seats ... oh wait thats right my husband didnt get a dime from FEMA.
He got a whopping $12,000 from State Farm. His entire 3 bdrm 2 ba fully furnished home with a 2 car garage and a huge shed out back (which actually blew or was sucked away when the water receded)was completely ruined by the 4 feet of water that was in his house. (yes his house ... we were not married until after Katrina) No, he did not have flood insurance - he lived far from the beach - far from any water. Up by HWY 90 - look at the map... water NEVER should have come to his neighborhood! He was ADVISED not to purchase flood insurance when he bought the house in 92 by the agent who sold his homeowners policy to him. It's less than $300 a year for $150,000 policy - you dont think everyone here would have bought it had we even thought for one second that we would ever need it? And that our homeowners and hurricane insurance policies would be denied for HURRICANE DAMAGE.
Ok, now try to imagine - lets just say you have a nice 3 bdrm home - fully furnished... modestly - with moderately priced furniture. Nothing extravagent. But think about everything you have in your home. I mean everything. From the major appliances down to the bar of soap in your bathroom drawer and every little thing in bewtween. Every piece of silverware, every utensil, all of your tools, your computer and software, every mattress and boxspring, all of your towels and wash cloths, your clothing, shoes, small appliances - I mean EVERYTHING ruined. Completely beyond salvage. Dont forget your AC unit outside the house and if the water reached higher all the duct work too - another $3000 - $8000 minimum to replace. Then you have to completely tear out all of your flooring, your cabinets, countertops, toilets, all of the sheetrock and insulation. Everything must be thrown out completely, due to the thick coat of mud and mold left behind. My husband did this HIMSELF. He tore out everything on his own. No volunteers came to help. He waited in line and got his free bottled water and ice because there was no running water at all - and if there was it was contaminated. He also received MREs ... he had no choice. All of his food either flooded or rotted after the storm. There was no electricity for weeks and in some parts of town, months. He was one of the fortunate ones, he had 2 vehicles and evacuated in 1 so he did have a car. He could have driven 80 miles or more to go get his own groceries and water, but there wasnt a gas station left in town. Every pump was destroyed. Not that he could have gotten gas anyway - remember the shortage? So he was at the mercy of the government. No one had a way out of town once they came back to see if they had a home left standing. We were all at the mercy of the government just to get the basic necessities to survive. He then cut down 4 trees blocking the driveway and around the house just so he could push out his vehicle that was completely ruined after floating in 4 feet of water in the garage. It was 100 degrees and we were in a major drought.
Now imagine trying to replace everything. Try imagining it with $150,000 the very few lucky ones got. Try to imagine doing it with $50,000. Try imagining doing it with the $27,000 FEMA could give IF you quilified at all (which most did not by the way)Try imagining doing it with the $12,000 my husband got. Now imagine doing it with nothing but your savings and the income you bring in weekly. This is the reality of most people down here. If you say you could have done it- you are lying. You know it, I know it and so do the rest of the readers.
The people who wasted the money they got from FEMA are the same people who take their welfare checks and go buy crack or meth or whatever they do to waste government money on a monthly basis. Yes they do exist. They exist here is MS. They exist in LA. And guess what ... they also exist in FL, in IN, in MN, in OH, in IL ... and I could go on and name every single state in this country. They exist in every state. But the majority of the people here used that money in a useful constructive way.
We didnt even ask for the money people!!! The government decided that they were giving this out!! We never called and asked for it - guess what... we had no phones, absolutely no way to communicate with the outside world. Our cell phones worked maybe 3-10 minutes a day at best. And that was if you could get to a place where you could get a signal (the Bay Bridge). I personally had no phone service for almost 2 weeks (with a couple exceptions of a signal for maybe 60 seconds at a time) then over the next 3 months my service was spotty at best. FEMA could never get through to me so I was always put back to the end of the list or shuffled off to another adjuster.
For those of you who think we didnt have insurance you are very ignorant. Do you not know that mortgage companies require insurance? Do you think everyone in MS just outright owns their homes and no one has a mortgage??? Just like the rest of the country we have mortgages to pay and are required to have insurance.
Three days after Katrina hit we drove back to MS from Destin FL. There was almost no gas to speak of but we were lucky enough to fill up at one of the few stations that still had gas before we left FL. I had my minivan with my 3 children and we each had 3 changes of clothing.
We came home to nothing. Our home was leveled to the slab. We lost absolutely everything we own. I had just moved back home after living in MN for 15 years. I was renting a house right off the beach. It was a beautiful 4 bdrm home and I had over $15K in brand new furniture I had just bought 5 weeks before Katrina hit. I had over $8K in new dishes, towels, tvs and just basic household items needed for a family of 4. I have a teenage daughter - and if you have/had one you know the expense involved in just clothing alone! Plus 2 other children. I also work from home and lost ALL of my computers and software ... very spendy!! I had over $5K in samples, catalogs, merchandise for my business - lost. I estimated approximately $50,000 total lost in all. I was a renter. I had been in the house 7 weeks. I was busy setting up house, enrolling my children in new schools, just running around trying to get settled in. I had not gotten my renters insurance. It was my fault. I know that, but I was very busy and hadnt slowed down to get it squared away. I was told later by my daughters volleyball coach (also the local state farm agent) that my renters insurance wouldnt have covered it anyway... nice. At any rate, I did get FEMA money. I got $18,360 in all and a FEMA camper. I am grateful. Extremely grateful. (and one of the lucky ones because I had trouble proving my income based on commission and SBA was wary of approving me for a loan after losing 90% of my customer base) But could I start over with it? No. Absolutely not. No one could- I had 4 bedroom sets, diningroom, livingroom, 2 baths, clothes, shoes toys etc for 4 people. No one could ever begin to replace everything they own with $18K especially if you have children. I work 100% on commission and sell to businesses. I lost 80-90% of my customers in the storm. Imagine living off 10-20% of your income. I was a single mom with 3 children and no place to live. No way out of town (no gas remember). It was a complete and total nightmare. My parents got 200 gallons of gas, loaded up the back of my dads truck and drove down from MN. Drove straight through. We drove back to MN. I was in shock. I was devistated. My children were in shock. My parents were scared out of their minds because they were unable to reach us by phone but took it upon themselves to drive in and find us. They knew we were in trouble and they just came. My now husband ... didnt want to lose me. He asked me to marry him. We pooled our resources and rebuilt his house. My children stayed in MN for 4 months because they had no schools here and it was not safe for children down here at the time. I flew back and forth between MN and MS for 4 months helping rebuild the house. We did most of it ourselves. We had to pay $8000 for a new roof, $3000 for new AC unit, $3000 for the sheetrock to be floated professionally ... but everything else was done by me, my husband and sometimes friends came to help with some of the major stuff. But my husband completely gutted his house and dragged everything out himself...down to the bare studs. Then he stood in line again to receive his free bleach. He bleached every bare stud. He did this AFTER he worked a minimum of 8 hours a day at his regular job. Then he slept on the cement floor for over 7 weeks until he could get a mattress. Which he then slept on (still on the cement floors) for a couple more months until my FEMA camper arrived.
You people have no idea how hard it was to get materials to rebuild our homes. We had very little gas available - yes the shortage was over - but our gas stations were gone. We had to drive so far just to get anything - and even then most places were sold out of supplies for hundreds of miles away.
This is how most of us lived here. This has been our reality for a year now. So go ahead and say you need to do this or you should have done that - but you cant possibly begin to know what we did or what we could not possibly have done. Most things were out of our control, but if it was humanly possible to do it - most of us did.
I am not saying it was all bad. Some good did come of Katrina. We learned how to survive. We learned we do not need all the extras. I got married and now we have a beautiful 1 month old daughter. So yes some wonderful things happened as a result of Katrina. But do not minimize what we have been through - do not call us lazy as you sit there in front of your computer probably never having to endure a fraction of what we have been through. How dare you. You have nerve telling us how to live our lives. Most Americans could not have endured what we have been through. So go ahead and say what you must in order to feel high and mighty... but we know the truth. The wonderful volunteers know the truth. You others, you know absolutely nothing.
I had to take my 1 month old infant to a heart specialist because of the wonderful FEMA camper we had to live in while I was pregnant. Apparently the fumes effected my unborn child. But yes, I am still so grateful for everything from the government... and no to all of you who are worried about YOUR tax dollars - I am not suing anyone. (we do pay taxes down here too by the way ... its OUR tax dollars as well - but I thought I would just throw that in there since so many of you complain that WE are wasting YOUR tax dollars)
Posted by: TS, Bay St Louis, MS at September 01, 2006 09:37 AM (TfGND)
51
You are wasting our tax dollars. You should have moved.
Your tale of woe only demonstrates that you lack all critical judgement. And we're supposed to subsidize that?
Posted by: much shorter post at September 01, 2006 08:02 PM (6hYb4)
52
TS,
I loved your response.
I don't believe anyone can imagine another person's hardship without personally experiencing it themself. I cannot fathom what you and so many went through and wouldn't profess to. My brother drove to Mississipi after the storm with 1000 gallons of water and that much again in ice out of his own pocket. He also took several additional gallons of gas. Like your family, he was rescuing a very dear friend and her family. FEMA would not let him distribute the water and ice on his own; he had to go through the red tape to make sure there was no prank or ill conceived idea - FEMA inspected his trailer and FEMA handed out the water and ice that he purchased. I am not saying that this is bad or against FEMA; simply this is just what happened to him in Mississippi. You seemed to have respectfully quieted the responses, however, the original article questioned the rebuilding of New Orleans. The Mississippi Governor, Mayors and Police Chiefs are obviously more adept to crisis and possess the ability to abstain from corruption as witnessed by the progression of recovery. Mississippians have also shown to the world the take-charge attitude of their own lives. Do you have coments on New Orleans and should it be rebuilt and would Mississippi recovery be different if Biloxi had Nagin and the state had Blanco?
Posted by: Mary at September 01, 2006 09:08 PM (SdBnk)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
August 28, 2006
Mystery Senator Exposed?
Mary Katherine Ham notes this Club for Growth article that Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) may be the "mystery senator" holding up legislation that would create "an online, searchable database to allow taxpayers to investigate all federal spending."
Is she?
Well, she certainly seems to have the right qualifications...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
05:54 PM
| Comments (6)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
She's the mystery senator because she doesn't support the bill? The support for this assertion is a press release from her challenger? Come on. She should support the bill, but I think CFG is jumping to conclusions.
A better candidate is the preciously named Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.), who will not answer the direct question: Did you place the hold? There's no penalty for saying, No, only praise, and the only reason for refusing to answer is to avoid being called a liar later.
Posted by: angry young man at August 29, 2006 12:50 PM (vC1jc)
2
This just in: according to TPM Muckraker, which is tracking who has denied placing the hold, Stabenow says she didn't. The number of deniers is up to 75.
Also, a recent Senate rule change indicates the Senator who placed the hold must state why for the Congressional Record within three days of placing the hold.
Also according to TPM Muckraker, "Senator Hatch's office said that Senator Hatch supports the bill however if he had placed the secret hold we wouldn't know because it is secret."
I don't think Hatch would do it. He has some prestige. This is type of chicanery a party leader foists on some foolish newbie looking to make some points. Such as Chabliss.
Posted by: angry young man at August 29, 2006 12:56 PM (vC1jc)
3
make that 82 deniers. the noose tightens.
porkbusters has a tally that indicates who hasn't denied placing the hold, but it's not as up to date:
http://porkbusters.org/secrethold.php
Posted by: angry young man at August 29, 2006 01:02 PM (vC1jc)
4
Heavy betters on other blogs are pointing to Stevens the bridge to nohwhere alaska guy
Posted by: SlimGuy at August 30, 2006 02:45 PM (1aM/I)
5
No, actually it's our distinguished senator from Alaska.
Posted by: clearwaterconservative at August 30, 2006 06:43 PM (92quE)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Editor & Publisher's Evolving Implosion
This past Friday afternoon, an unscrupulous revision to a forgotten three year-old editorial by Greg Mitchell became the bomb that threatens to blow apart Editor & Publisher, a media industry trade publication, and it's parent company, VNU Media.
Mitchell wrote a two part editorial last week, "In Defense of War Photographers," attacking bloggers for exposing Reuters news photographers as the author of two faked photos, and calling into question other events bloggers felt were possibly staged.
I hypothesized on Friday that Mitchell's stirring defense of the suspected fakers might have arisen from his own past as someone who has
admitted staging the news in a 2003 editorial.
The story should have died right there, but then, in a surprisingly stupid and petty act, someone with access to Mitchell's editorial
decided to change the lede of the editorial to paint Mitchell in a more favorable light. Someone at
Editor & Publisher was rewriting history within hours of unwanted attention cast upon the editorial by a handful of blogs.
Suddenly, the sleepy little editorial that had lain dormant for three years had detonated into charges of "
journalistic malpractice" and calls for
Mitchell to resign. Surely, someone who represents an industry trade publication as its editor must be held to the same standards as other journalists, if not higher standards.
And so while other fact errors in Mitchell's editorial
have been addressed,
Editor & Publisher pointedly refuse to even mention the blatant rewrite of the column's lede that suddenly brought this sleepy editorial back to the nation's attention.
Editor & Publisher and Greg Mitchell could easily defuse an increasingly volatile situation by simply admitting that Mitchell "tweaked" the article because he wanted to write off his fraud as a youthful indiscretion, but instead of taking a small bite of well-deserved crow, it seems
Editor & Publisher and their parent company,
VNU Media, may attempt instead to act as if nothing ever happened, and hope that the storm will pass without them having to admit their ever-compounding errors in judgement.
Mary Katharine Ham is
trying to reach Mitchell at
Editor and Publisher for comment, but so far has had no luck. I think she should try
Will Thoretz, VNU's company spokesman instead. It seems that sooner rather than later that this particular ball will be in his court as Mitchell continues to hope that his fradulent past and present won't catch up to him.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:33 PM
| Comments (7)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
I've been following this off and on, so excuse me if this comment is redundant - but has anyone informed Mr. Mitchell that at no time in 1967 did the water stop pouring over Niagra Falls? It actually occured in 1969. Linkeroo: www.coolquiz.com/trivia/canada/niagra.asp
Now, I would imagine that this two year descrepancy between Mitchell's recollection and recorded history would be pretty easy to verify, considering the original article probably had a date to attach to it. It just seems like this would all be pretty easy to verify if someone could find the original article.
Posted by: shank at August 28, 2006 01:25 PM (+H1yK)
2
Excuse me? Am I missing something? That someone made a mistake remembering an event from 35+ years ago and then corrects it when someone points out the mistake, is evidence of what?
And what does it show about your integrity when you bold and link to charges of 'staging the news' and 'calls for resignation' and they are links only to charges you've made?
Confederacy of Dunces is right.
Posted by: Ed at August 28, 2006 01:30 PM (yfKhZ)
3
Why do I care? Its an editorial. An opinion expressed by a writer. Not a factual news story. Its VNU's content. Why can't they change it every 5 seconds from now until the end of time? Online venues do it all the time. USAToday, WaPo, NYT, WSJ, etc.
This is so SOP, you don't like the message so attack the messenger. Big deal. He changed an editorial from 3 years ago. Where's the drama everytime a blogger adds an update to their blog "tweaking" the contents? A blog is an opinion of someone. An editorial is the same thing, different medium.
Posted by: matt a at August 28, 2006 01:35 PM (GvAmg)
4
Ed,
the issue of whether or not someone remembers the events of so long ago is irrlevant; it matters not at all to the issue at hand as far as I am concerned. The issue is that someone decided to edit Mitchell's 3-year-old editorial to cast him in a more favorable light within hours of it being brought back to the public's attention. It was and is a clear attempt to rewrite the past, and a breach of journalistic ethics.
That Mitchell or someone acting in his steady is willing to rewrite such a minor story in an attempt to mitigate their personal failings indicates that journalistic ethics have been abandoned in favor of "feel good" journalism.
I'm sorry if you could not take the time to click on the link back to the home page and read the several posts on the subject leading up to this one, but that is a sign of your intellectual laziness on your part, not an issue of integity on mine. Anyone with any questions cold easily read about the entire issue on this site if they had the least amount of curiosity; you obviously would rather whine and run.
matt a,
Online news sources can and do add to news stories as they evolve, and when they do, they show the date and time when the post was last updated. they do this at USAToday, WaPo, NYT, WSJ, and any other source you would like to cite. Even blogs--at least most of the more criedibly ones--post clear updates when they change or add to their stories, as I do here.
Mitchell's editorial dishonestly states it has not been updated since being published on May 20, 2003. Mitchell admitted to committing fraud once as a journalist, and committed another ethical violation when he changed the article admitting that three years later, to cast himself in a more favorable light and try to deflect criticism.
Why do I only have to explain the concept of ethics to liberals?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 28, 2006 02:08 PM (g5Nba)
5
CY - Nice non-answer. Notice how you didn't respond to his article, simply started the attacks. Must be amazing to be perfect. BTW, is this the update you are claiming wasn't there? http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1891030
CORRECTION, August 27, 2006: Several readers of the 2003 story below have informed us that the water flowing over Niagara Falls was turned off in June 1969, not in 1967, as the article below stated. We have corrected or deleted that date and Mitchell’s age where they appeared in this column. Mitchell worked at the Gazette in the summers of 1968 and 1969 before graduating from college in 1970. The incident recounted below occurred in his second summer at the paper, not in the first, as the original had it.
I know, I know, they finally acknowledged the "modification" on Sunday, 2 days after your eminently predicted "implosion" entry. So is this still an "ethics" issue now that the paper has updated the column or you just don't like being held to the same level of scrutiny you give?
Posted by: matt a at August 29, 2006 07:42 AM (GvAmg)
6
matt a,
Your reading comprehension skills are simply not up to par.
The correction in no way at all addresses the fact that Mitchell's article was reworded, unethically I made add, to cast a more favorable light on Mitchell. The correction It addresses timeline issues investigated by Dan Riehl and others that were in the original post, but refuses to even address the journalistic malpractice that has been committed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at August 29, 2006 08:30 AM (g5Nba)
7
CY - They added 8 words, they changed some of the 8 words to other words and ran a correction. As far as you know, the first correction was a draft of the rewored article that mistakenly got published.
Again, nothing about his actual article. Just attacks. SOP.
Posted by: matt a at August 29, 2006 11:58 AM (GvAmg)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
Hoping for Transparency, But Expecting the Norm
Mary Katharine Ham has a new column up at Townhall.com discussing the "Fauxtography" scandals and the journalistic malpractice in Greg Mitchell's 2003 column that I highlighted over the weekend.
I should hope that
Editor & Publisher's parent company VNU Media follows David Perlmutter's suggested option on how to
handle similar scandals:
News picture-making media organizations have two paths of possible response to this unnerving new situation. First, they can stonewall, deny, delete, dismiss, counter-slur, or ignore the problem. To some extent, this is what is happening now and, ethical consideration aside, such a strategy is the practical equivalent of taking extra photos of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The second, much more painful option, is to implement your ideals, the ones we still teach in journalism school. Admit mistakes right away. Correct them with as much fanfare and surface area as you devoted to the original image. Create task forces and investigating panels. Don't delete archives but publish them along with detailed descriptions of what went wrong. Attend to your critics and diversify the sources of imagery, or better yet be brave enough to refuse to show any images of scenes in which you are being told what to show. I would even love to see special inserts or mini-documentaries on how to spot photo bias or photo fakery—in other words, be as transparent, unarrogant, and responsive as you expect those you cover to be.
The stakes are high. Democracy is based on the premise that it is acceptable for people to believe that some politicians or news media are lying to them; democracy collapses when the public believes that everybody in government and the press is lying to them.
While Perlmutter was specifically talking about photojournalism, the same principles apply to print journalism as well.
VNU Media would be wise to opt for a transparent investigation.
We should know just how seriously they value their credibility by their action or inaction later today.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:40 AM
| Comments (2)
| Add Comment
| Trackbacks (Suck)
1
Is it possible that the vehicle was entirely rusted out, only to be painted over by Reuters hastily (w/o removing the rust), so that when it got hit, the blast simply ripped off the paint, exposing the pre-existing rust?
Posted by: Bret at August 28, 2006 11:13 AM (JHRJI)
Posted by: Bret at August 28, 2006 11:17 AM (JHRJI)
Hide Comments
| Add Comment
<< Page 189 >>
Processing 0.03, elapsed 0.6814 seconds.
34 queries taking 0.6648 seconds, 157 records returned.
Page size 183 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.