Confederate Yankee
September 19, 2006
Runaways
I'm with Bryan all the way on this.
Many countries have been state sponsors of terrorism, but France has just become the first state sponsor of hostages.
Enjoy the Brie, boys.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:29 PM
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Islamist Who Called For Pope's Execution Was a Drunken Heretic
Gee, what didn't he do?
This week he stood outside Westminster Cathedral in central London to call for the execution of the Pope as punishment for 'insulting Islam'. He fulminated against Pope Benedict XVl, adding: "Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."
It's a long way from his days as a medical student at Southampton University, where, friends say, he drank, indulged in casual sex, smoked cannabis and even took LSD. He called himself 'Andy' and was famed for his ability to drink a pint of cider in a few seconds.
One former acquaintance said: "At parties, like the rest of us, he was rarely without a joint. The morning after one party, I can remember him getting all the roaches (butts) from the spliffs we had smoked the night before out of the ashtrays, cutting them up and making a new one out of the leftovers.
"He would say he was a Muslim and was proud of his Pakistani heritage, but he did-n't seem to attend any of the mosques in Southampton, and I only knew of him having white girlfriends. He certainly shared a bed with them."
On one occasion, 'Andy' and a friend took LSD together. The friend said: "We took far too much and were hallucinating for 20 hours."
Stoner. Drunk. Acidhead. Islamist.
It appears Mr. Choudary is addicted to all sorts of self-destructive behavior.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:34 AM
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Gulag University
The U.K. Guardian has obtained a list of seven interrogation techniques that the CIA would like to use to interrogate al Qaeda terror suspects.
They are:
- induced hypothermia
- forcing suspects to stand for prolonged periods
- sleep deprivation
- a technique called "the attention grab" where a suspect's shirt is forcefully seized
- the "attention slap" or open hand slapping that hurts but does not lead to physical damage
- the "belly slap"
- sound and light manipulation
Color me unimpressed. Throw in copious amounts of alcohol and some co-eds, and this sounds more like my college years than torture.
Inducted hypothermia
Hundreds of thousands of people expose themselves to this voluntarily every Saturday for three to five hours at a time, once tailgating is included. It's called going to a college football game.
Torture.
Forcing suspects to stand for prolonged periods
In college, this period is called "registration."
Torture.
sleep deprivation
This is called "final exams," where sleepless nights are commonplace and stress levels stay very high for days at a time.
Torture.
a technique called "the attention grab" where a suspect's shirt is forcefully seized
We called this "going to bars." Sometimes the grabbing was wanted (where we called this horrific act "flirting"), was innocuous (grabbing a friend by the shirt to drag them to the next bar), or was not wanted (grabbing someone to eject them from a bar). I've done all three as a student and short-term bar manager, and at least at my college, you saw a
lot of all three on Halloween, where the holiday was one of the biggest celebrations of the year.
Torture.
the "attention slap" or open hand slapping that hurts but does not lead to physical damage
We have another term for this: male bonding.
It was observed pretty consistently throughout college, and it is also called "horsing around." Fraternities--groups people
voluntarily joined of their own free will--generally did things that were a lot worse and often lot more disgusting. I'd rather go through a chest slap than get the "wear a raw egg on your head under a hat all day" treatment one fraternity made their pledges go through when I was in school, and the stuff they did in earlier times to pledges would certainly be a war crime in today's climate.
Torture.
the "belly slap"
See above. Not uncommon where testosterone and alcohol intermingle. Annoying? Check. Torture? If so
this blogger (certainly an odd duck by any measure) is the Marquis de Sade reincarnated.
sound and light manipulation
Here in the United States, we don't call that torture, we call it "going to bars and concerts." Again, tens of thousands of college students pay good money for this kind of treatment every night of the week.
Torture.
Admittedly, the environment provided by the CIA to carry out interrogations will not be festive and those being interrogated are not there of their own free will, but that hardly constitutes torture. Some
normal prison conditions in the United States expose prisoners to far worse treatment, and most of that comes from other inmates. Some prisons such as the Cook County Jail in Dick "Gulag" Durbin's home district are
worse than the conditions of Abu Ghraib.
I don't feel outraged if terrorists are slapped around a little bit, or made cold, or tired, or uncomfortable. Run-of-the-mill prisoners in American jails face the same treatment as those terrorists we've captured, and many face far worse.
Many of the techniques described here are no more violent or degrading than what I've seen fraternity pledges exposed to, and to the best of my knowledge, no members of al Qaeda have been forced to serenade a sorority with "You lost that Lovin' Feelin'" wearing nothing but their "tighty whiteys" and a smile on a cold winter morning.
Perhaps when John McCain is done
torturing our intelligence gathering capabilities, he can do to the universities what he has already done to campaign finance reform.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:54 AM
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1
If they are that concerned about prisoners safety, they should check out Rikers Island in NY.
Posted by: jay at September 19, 2006 11:41 AM (+RUGW)
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I guess that means students can now sue universities in the ICC for torture, and get their chancelors thrown in jail.
Posted by: sammy small at September 19, 2006 01:59 PM (a8b5N)
Posted by: Specter at September 19, 2006 07:06 PM (ybfXM)
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September 18, 2006
Apparently Debatable Murder
AFP's caption writer seems to take issue with Israel treating captured members of Hezbollah like criminals:
Israeli soldiers arrest two alleged Hezbollah militants outside the southern Lebanese village of Bint Jbeil in August 2006. Three suspected Hezbollah fighters who were captured during the Lebanon war were charged in Israel with "murder" and belonging to a "terrorist organisation".(AFP/File) Email Photo Print Photo
Apparently, AFP does not believe that Hezbollah is a "terrorist organisation," nor does it think that
killing eight Israeli soldiers in an assault inside Israel during a time of relative peace before the recent conflict was "murder."
AFP did not say what they would prefer Hezbollah to be called, nor did they say what, if any, offense should be ascribed to the deaths of eight Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah gunfire.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Killing the jooos is a european tradition. AFP is French. There you go.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 04:06 PM (cjDIC)
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He really got some miliage out of his tactical use of quotes (TUOQ). AFP is putting the word "murder" in quotes as though it isn't true? Yikes.
Posted by: brando at September 18, 2006 10:10 PM (K+VjK)
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Damn.. I was I'd hoping I'd beat you to the punch on the TUOQ. I feel that pimping my post will lead to the expression "TUOQ" going mainstream and giving me a cult following.
Thanks Brando, you're a real "pal".
Posted by: paully at September 18, 2006 10:56 PM (yJuX3)
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According to the Geneva Convention, Hezbollah is not an army proper. Therefore the murder they commit is illegal under civilian law. It is therefore murder, and the dead are not considered KIA. AFP and most other MSM are not members of any journalistic ethical organization. The "murder" they commit is nothing short of "charachter murder".
Posted by: jay at September 19, 2006 07:22 AM (+RUGW)
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How about this:
These people aren't murderers or even members of Hezbolleh just because a member of the government says they are. In the civilized world we wait for the facts.
Oh, wait, I forgot: you guys are conservatives, and therefore have no understanding of the phrase "civilized world." With you it's torture first, determine truth later.
My bad.
Michael
Posted by: Michael at September 19, 2006 08:36 AM (bX82N)
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Michael has to be deliberately stupid in order to make his (nonsensical) point. The conversation centers around the denigration of the charges (via the scare quotes), not the guilt or innocence of the accused.
The fact that accused weren't killed immediately demonstrates the ethical behavior of the Israelis, but that is something only a commenter with an open mind (or any mind at all), would notice.
Posted by: iconoclast at September 19, 2006 09:56 AM (Jpc2l)
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HMMM...I guess I'm just wondering what terms they would have preferred...
"Murder" = overzealous meeting of fluffy bunny freedomfighters & evil JOOS
"terrorist organisation" = (of course) religion of peace freedomfighters that are just misunderstood (and so what they only killed JOOS, right?)
It chaps my hiney that these idiots write in such a manner!
Posted by: Chris at September 19, 2006 10:07 AM (XCo9J)
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Noting the Differences
A British Muslim extremist named Anjem Choudary is stating that Pope Benedict XVI should face execution for quoting from a conversation between 14th Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel II Paleologos and an educated Persian.
The Pope's speech—a lecture on
faith and reason—was a call for a reasoned synergy between faith and science to complete the human soul, and a reasoned dialogue between faiths. Islam has responded with riots around the world, the burning of no less than seven churches thus far, and the murder of a Catholic nun. A reasoned call for a lifestyle balancing secular science and theology has been responded to with unreasoning hatred, including calls for Jihad by
al Qaeda and "moderate" Muslims alike.
Pope Benedict XVI called for reason and dialogue between faiths, and
worldwide, Islam has responded with violence and the threats of violence, a point not lost on the
Archbishop of Sydney:
Cardinal George Pell says "the violent reactions in many parts of the Islamic world" to a speech by Pope Benedict justified one of the main fears expressed by the world's Catholic leader.
"They showed the link for many Islamists between religion and violence, their refusal to respond to criticism with rational arguments, but only with demonstrations, threats and actual violence," Cardinal Pell said in a statement yesterday.
Once upon a time, I was under the belief that Islam was a rational faith, and that those that carried out violent attacks in the name of Islam misunderstood their own faith. It was both presumptuous and ignorant for me to make that assumption, as I see it now reflected in response to a call for reason from a man of God.
The violent acts carried out by Islamists—and the near-total silence from what we like to think is a majority of moderate Muslims—has ended the last illusions about Islam for many around the world. Our eyes are opening to see that Muslims seek not dialogue, but domination. Pope Benedict seeks reciprocity and respect between faiths, and Muslims are responding with attempts at intimidation. We see now that these calls for violence are not a minority viewpoint, but a sincere and troubling part of their core beliefs.
Islam means "submission," and one billion people who practice the faith seem intent on making the other five billion people on this plant submit to their views. Their desire for domination of the world by their increasingly irrational faith shows that it is they, not the West, that seeks to engage in a Holy War. They would be wise to reconsider their views.
The original Crusades saw Christian and Muslim armies that were technologically equals. That equality no longer exists today, and the military superiority of the West over the Islamic world is pronounced. To date, Western reason shaped by Judeo-Christian compassion has prevented us from using our military supremacy to forcefully thwart Islamist plans for world domination with our full might, but our decision to hold that power in check is not without limits.
If practitioners of the Muslim faith think that they can exert their will unchecked through the
most violent of means without facing an earthly reckoning beyond their comprehension, they are sadly mistaken. Our rational beliefs have had us regarding Islam as a possible threat to be dealt with surgically, but not one yet worth acting against generally with our full military might.
One act of sufficient scope and horror would change the calculus of the equation. Islamists seem to sincerely believe that nations shaped by Judeo-Christian beliefs are soft, and that we will fall quickly if they act with sufficient aggression and callousness against those they see as infidels.
Islamic leaders should reconsider the ramifications of the widespread Jihad they call for against the West. If they provoke us sufficiently, the same reason that has had us hold ourselves in check to date will dictate that that restraint we have practiced is counterproductive to our continued existence, and Islam will not see another century.
We are not weak, but reasoned, and the Muslims of the world crying for violent Jihad against would be wise to note the difference.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:10 AM
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1
Whoa there, CY! Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world in much the same way as the radical Muslims are painting all Christians as enemies of Islam?
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 11:51 AM (Xw2ki)
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"Whoa there, CY! Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world in much the same way as the radical Muslims are painting all Christians as enemies of Islam?"--RS
Ummm,no. What he appears to actually be saying is that there are NO 'moderates' worth worrying about. A viewpoint that "objective reality" is demonstrating on a more or less daily basis. Those whom the West considers to be 'moderate' are in fact more likely to be described as 'apostates' by the real powers in the Ummah.
If Islam does not want to be tarred by the demonization brush perhaps it should stop demonizing itself so handily.
Posted by: dougf at September 18, 2006 12:10 PM (STFua)
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RS, Maybe he is but until there is outcry coming from the mainstream moderates, how do we know where they really stand? Zain tried to make many valid points but when I keep seeing things like this go on in the world, it make me wonder as well. I am reaching my limit as well. I know there are good people out there and have met some in my travels, they need to get together and end this now before it boils over.
The Pope said nothing wrong, it was a Quote they were happy to take out of context and in doing so, killed an innocent Nun and set fire to some Churches, not tolerant, peaceful, or neighborly of them. It needs to stop. I know you agree, just wondering where your limit is?
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 18, 2006 12:12 PM (elhVA)
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Oh. I see. ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority ...
That surely clears that up for me.
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:14 PM (Xw2ki)
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One of the biggest problems I see in all this is that the main stream media is more interested in selling advertising and in selling newspapers than in publishing the words of the moderate Muslms. One such moderate was just on Fox News. Another was on the Heartland Show Saturday night with John Kasech. Even the Imam who appeared moments ago commented on the bravery of Fox News to give a platform to moderate, thinking Muslims.
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:21 PM (Xw2ki)
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We see what we see. It is exactly what the media wants us to see. It does not represent the whole truth.
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 12:23 PM (Xw2ki)
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You have a good point about the news not portraying everything and it should be shown more. I still believe that the extremists that go overboard are doing far far greater damage to any "peace" the religion had to offer. Even if you take the warped news into account.
Where will it go if they actually make an attempt on the Pope's life? Or even succeed for that matter?
My point is it has gone too far, the moderates in the religion have a better chance of doing anything than outsiders do. If more is being done, then I would like to see that in the news/blogs/public displays. It's a huge powder keg waiting for a spark, water needs to be put on it and those closer to the problem have a better chance of dousing the flame.
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 18, 2006 12:45 PM (elhVA)
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Aren't you doing a disservice to the moderate Muslims throughout the world
Where are their voices siding with the pope's analysis?
*chirp*
*chirp* *chirp*
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 12:49 PM (cjDIC)
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Oh. I see. ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority ...RS
Problem is even if that "small" minority consists of
10-20%, that is alot of extremists.
And yes, they are swimming in the moderate's pool.
Posted by: USASamurai at September 18, 2006 12:50 PM (D9bX2)
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RS,
I'm not sure what evidence exists of all those "moderate" muslims. I have been hearing about the "moderate" Muslim since 9/11. I have yet to see any real evidence of this phenomena.
Yes, there is occassionally someone who appears on a western news station and utters "moderate" things, but it seems - based on the evidence at hand - that such individuals (and for this response I am not going to point out that many of the "moderates" say much different things when speaking in their own language and to their own c0-religionists) are a small minority, and do not represent main-stream islam.
I will not cite to any specific evidence here to support my thesis, as it is amply demonstrated, I believe, in the actions and words of muslims (including many of the muslim religious and political leaders) around the world.
What I would like, is for someone to show me ANY evidence of a majority (or even a sizeable minority) of "moderate" muslims.
[And, I suppose, we will probably need to have a debate on what constitutes a "moderate" muslim. I think people are equating those muslims who don't ACTIVELY engage in violence or calls for violence as "moderate". I'm not sure that is remotely accurate].
Now, if the "moderate" muslim does exist, then surely, such an individual would not be mad a CY for making what is a reasonable analysis based upon the evidence, but would instead be angry at those "extremists" who have "hijacked" their religion. Somehow, that is never the response we get from the "moderates."
Instead, the argument is always, you cannot say anything bad about islam, or else we will lose the "moderate" muslims and the violence will only increase. We should fear this result, b/c, I suppose, we have received soooo much support from them up to now.
I view the "Moderate" muslim like Sinn Fien is to the IRA. An alleged rational and reasonable group that keeps the crazies from really getting violent. Kind of a good cop / bad cop game. Here's how it works, someone says something bad about islam. Violence and calls for more violence ensues. the moderate muslim gets on TV and says, yes, violence is bad, but they have a reason to be angry - you really should apologize and refrain from ever saying anything bad about islam again. If the west does not back down, more violence, if the west backs down, we do so to appease the "moderate" muslims, not the crazies.
- GB
Posted by: Great Banana at September 18, 2006 01:20 PM (JFj6P)
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A true Moderate would understand that it is only a difference of opinion and be (tolerant) of the fact that everyone has the right to have a difference of opinion. They would also have a sense of (Forgivenes) for the non-believers. They would (love) us even though we do not worship the way they do. That killing in the name of your religion would be considered savage and unconscionable, that the murder and mayhem associated with that most (peaceful) of all religions would be condemed by the rest of the world. So if the moderate Muslim (if there is such a thing) need to stand up and be counted. They need to have counter protests by the hundreds of thousands. Until such time we need to have a posture of Offense instead of Defense. Take it to them Hard and Unceasing until they decide that it is better to get along with others. Not threaten your fellow man with forced religion or death. Truely be the religion of Peace, Tolerance and Love.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at September 18, 2006 01:43 PM (lNB+R)
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I saw a few numbers some months ago that said 10 to 15% of Muslims have terrorists leanings or are actively engaged in the process. Another 70% were sympathetic to their efforts.
This seems to correlate with what I see at work. I am at a large public hospital in Louisiana. We have a large number of foreign doctors. When you discuss these issues with this highly educated bunch, they still see reason in the terrorist activities.
I am with a number of you. I do not hear voices of complaint from other Muslim groups about the actions of the terrorist. In the legal field if you do not say anything, you consent to the action.
Do you think that despite all that has happened in the last several years, we will look back on the Pope's remarks and attribute them to the beginning of WWIII (think of what would happen if they actually kill him)??
Posted by: David Caskey at September 18, 2006 01:55 PM (6wTpy)
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"Why the Pope Apologized"
at RightLinx
Posted by: McCain at September 18, 2006 02:24 PM (ZwRTn)
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These moderates need to be gathering in large numbers to protest the of killing innocents in the name of their religion. Where are those protests? Has there been a demonstration from all the people the murdered Nun has helped in Somolia? Anyone? I know in Dearborn MI there was a large demonstration for hezbola not to long ago. Plenty of "moderates" got out for that event. Are those "Not in my name" folks moderate Mulsims saying not to wage war in the name of Islam? I didnt think so.
Posted by: Jeff at September 18, 2006 02:36 PM (mAibG)
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Hey CY...your trackback link is broke! Thought you might wanna know.
Great post...well thought out and well said.
Posted by: Buck at September 18, 2006 02:41 PM (HlGqW)
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ALL of those 1.2 BILLION Muslims in the world are complicit in the radical lunacy of the minority
That there aren't more dimes being dropped pretty much confirms this. IMO, turning a blind eye is substantially similar to complicity.
To be fair, there are some dimes being dropped, but not nearly as many as one might expect if the majority were truly against the terrorists.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 02:59 PM (cjDIC)
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I agree with CY on this one...
And I state this due to this I read today:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/one_arabs_apology_opedcolumnists_emilio_karim_dabul.htm
I noted, especially, the part in which he announces his FEAR of speaking his 'moderate' views.. the fear that Salman Rushdi also faced...
Which seems to correlate with other comments about 1.2billion and 10-20 percent... if less than a majority can control the narrative...
Is there really a true 'moderate' or just another Nazi prison camp guard sending folks into ovens becuse 'he was just following orders'....
Silence speaks volumes.... just as loudly spoken words.. and flaming ephigies do.
Posted by: Darrell Gregg at September 18, 2006 06:44 PM (wfnnR)
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I love it! You guys are actually thinking all this through to arrive at reasoned assessments.
It is fun to play the Devil's advocate from time to time .....
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 18, 2006 08:31 PM (Xw2ki)
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Is there really a true 'moderate'
If you've read the Koran as I have, the answer is plainly no. A "moderate" making their feeling known could be legitimately executed as apostate.
Unlike the bible to christians, the koran is to Muslims the literal word of god, perfect in every way and unchallengable. If you buck what is said in the koran you are by definition apostate.
In a manner of speaking, Islam controls its own faithful through a form of terror.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 11:32 PM (cjDIC)
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So the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is visiting with President Bush and the Prince begins to complain about Star Trek of all things.
"What is wrong with Star Trek?" asks a puzzled President Bush.
"Always it is showing people of different races, different planets. It shows Blacks. It showes Jews. It shows Russians. It shows Chinese. It shows Hindu's. Why does it never show Muslims or Arabs?"
"Oh," says President Bush, "That's simple. You see Prince, Star Trek is a show about the future. . ."
Posted by: MFB at September 18, 2006 11:47 PM (xc5/u)
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*still laughing at MFB*. A classic.
Posted by: Atticus_NC at September 19, 2006 04:48 AM (0xyYg)
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Man Rams Capitol Security Barricade
Not much detail, but CNN reports that he has been arrested and that no one was hurt.
I wonder... has anyone seen
Patrick Kennedy lately?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:51 AM
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Looks like practice for the next al-Qaeda attack scheduled for Ramadan. We need to watch for a mass movement of muslems out of the area.
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at September 18, 2006 10:33 AM (P90Bw)
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Further details:
The arrestee has a prior record. Previous arrest for drunk driving. Ditto for posession of a fire arm. Now he arrested for reckless driving, criminal trespass and posession of a fire arm.
I can see that those strict laws against fire arms in our nations capitol are so effective.
Posted by: MFB at September 18, 2006 11:52 PM (xc5/u)
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September 15, 2006
Lost In Translation
I know that some fanatics certainly seem to get off on it, but is calling jihad "
the hump of Islam" really what they meant to convey?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Join the Jihad: We want to hump you up!
Posted by: the man at September 15, 2006 01:52 PM (zpaDL)
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Isn't it strange that protesters in some far off land - Pakistan in this case - are once again holding printed signs in ENGLISH?
Posted by: MikeM at September 15, 2006 02:10 PM (Lz4EE)
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That is just crying out "Photoshop me!"
Posted by: Diogenes at September 15, 2006 02:20 PM (5LoG6)
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Should'nt the guy with the stupid sign be killed according to how angry they get with the Pope, meaning no harm get's the reaction he got?
Posted by: plainslow at September 15, 2006 02:33 PM (ByewE)
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MikeM, they realise that English is the International language of mixed-media, meanwhile here at home, we have bureaucrats translating driver's license applications into Urdu!
Posted by: Tom TB at September 15, 2006 04:42 PM (fEnUg)
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Maybe he means the "crunk" of Islam.
Posted by: brando at September 15, 2006 04:57 PM (K+VjK)
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maybe it has something to do with camels!!
Posted by: jay at September 16, 2006 12:50 PM (SFcTE)
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Derka derka.
I wish he meant that jihad was the "hump" that Islam had to overcome to be compatible with the rest of the world, sadly, I know that's not what he meant.
I just wonder if he meant to write "salami" when he wrote "Islami". Sounds pretty close if you ask me.
Posted by: Southerngayrepublican at September 16, 2006 01:29 PM (UVW1X)
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For guys on the hunt for those 72 virgins, maybe that IS what they mean.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at September 16, 2006 01:48 PM (1w197)
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THis is sort of simplistic and we could get into the discussion of different species of quadrapeds but what makes a camel a camel is the hump. so what they are saying is that Jihad is Islam's hump. It is what makes islam Islam. the struggle or jihad against infidels and whatnot makes it Islam. If you did not have the Struggle/Jihad then it would not be Islam.
Posted by: johnedetroit at September 16, 2006 04:58 PM (7R95H)
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As to English jihadi signs... Pakistan is not just a bit of India hacked off into an Islamic state with a rather unpleasant connotation (land of the pure... lovely). It is so ever much India's Islamic, badly run, violent, aggressive, poorer, more corrupt doppleganger.
Lots of mutually unintelligible groups, spider webs of tribal and ethnic loyalties, regionalist irrendentists who long for various golden eras when they controlled a vast empire, good gobs of sectarian and caste conflicts (caste conflicts amongst decidedly uncaste Islamic fundamentalists, natch). Very modern and forward thinking groups in conflict with VERY reactionary fundamentalists that tend to want to go back hundreds if not thousands of years (as compared to us VRWC types who want to roll back too many decades of economic policy and a few decades of social policy).
In that environment, English is an excellent unifier and a way of communicating to all groups in the country and in India, allies and enemies both. Just the AQ types use Pashto (Farsi dialect for much of Afghanistan as well as Northwest Frontier Province and Waziristan), Arabic (they are jihadis) and its barely comprehensible dialects, Urdu, Punjabi (central Pakistan), Kashmiri (self explanatory) and also some Hindi (linguistically the same as Urdu, but with a less arab/persian vocabulary and is a name used more frequently by Hindus and other non-muslims, useful for passing in Indian Kashhmir and the rest of India and in taunting/provoking the enemy).
True this is partly to speak to the West, but when done in Pakistan or India it makes a hell of a lot more sense (and the signs are 100x more comprehensible) than when it is done in Iran and the Arab world.
Being an anti-jihadi means being interested in this stuff. Reading English newspapers of questionable vocabulary to see what is really going on that the MSM isn't sharing. Learning the names of myriad terrorist groups (including promoters and wannabes) whose names all involve God, Islam or some such to use as a counterpoint to CAIR types who claim that Islamic terrorism is a myth of Islamophobia. Learning ridiculous amounts of vocabulary, geography, history and politics to see how and where the enemy is conducting its business.
Check Rantburg for great sources of this.
Posted by: hey at September 16, 2006 06:39 PM (WtzFf)
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I too, thought it was an odd/funny sign, until I read more posts to get to the thoughtful reply of HEY. THIS sort of message posting is the sort of stuff that can get people THINKING, and REASONING, about what the HELL is really going ON out there beyond our American Big Macs, HUGE automobiles, and other trappings of 'civilisation' that we have sent our armies out to secure raw materials for...
Posted by: Mr. Natural at September 17, 2006 10:47 AM (Ot2wC)
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Mr. Natural, I agree that hey's is a good post. As to yours, perhaps you should get out more yourself. That's a pretty knee-jerk list you just offered - clearly one you have been taught, not one you have thought or reasoned for yourself.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at September 17, 2006 03:16 PM (1w197)
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Thank you Mr. Natural. A.V. Idiot, just because someone takes the time to educate themselves about what is happening in this world does not mean that they are a knee-jerk liberal. When was the last time you thought and reasoned with and OPEN MIND? Myabe you are the brain-washed one emulating the arguments of conservative propaganda. Though I will concede that you often hear the like from a "knee-jerk liberal", it is somthing to be repeated because you folk seem to have some pretty thick skulls.
Posted by: joe at September 17, 2006 09:33 PM (72+9u)
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what the HELL is really going ON out there
The barbarians are at the gate. That's what really going on out there.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 18, 2006 09:47 AM (cjDIC)
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Party Clown
Sean Penn fails to dazzle us with his philosophical brilliance, quoting from radical Louisiana populist Huey "Kingfish" Long in a taped Larry King Live interview noted by Brent Baker at Newsbusters.
It's amusing to me that Penn chooses to call several Administration officials "party clowns."
Glass houses, buddy.
Here's Penn wearing
fake body armor, or rather, what appears to be an empty (and therefore useless) body armor carrier, in an apparent effort to look "movie tough" in his much documented (he brought along a cameraman and a
Rolling Stone reporter) and nearly disastrous rescue attempt after Hurricane Katrina.
If you remember the story, Penn is bailing with that red cup because they almost sank the boat on launch. The near-sinking was captured because Penn had several photographers along with him other than the one on the boat. It's all about the photo op.
When it comes to clowns, Penn clearly knows the role.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I wonder if Penn knows that Huey's main platform to fund his social programs was "share the wealth". Under his proposed scheme, people could keep their wealth to a point, then it went back to the government. I think the allowed limit was $5 million. Adjusting for inflation, Penn would be forking over some money and really have to work.
Also, I wish that Penn would take a close look at th social programs in Louisiana that Huey started and are still going. They are nothing but siphons for our money to go into the pockets of the politicians.
I notice from recent post that the troll you picked up is not around. Has he left??
Posted by: David Caskey at September 15, 2006 10:35 AM (6wTpy)
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What a colossal boob. I love how election season brings out the bright bulbs of Hollywood, declaring the focus on terrorism is taking away from issues like Enron. He is just a commie pinko. Someone to point to and laugh. I can't wait to vote.
Posted by: Stormy70 at September 15, 2006 10:58 AM (SXQle)
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He's just a blow-hard idiot -- ignore him.
Posted by: MikeM at September 15, 2006 11:35 AM (Lz4EE)
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For a guy with only a high school education, he's quite the "expert" on international and millitary affairs isn't he.
I guess Spicolli graduated from Ridgemont High ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 15, 2006 01:56 PM (6CeBd)
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You idiots are unbelievable, wasn't St Ronnie a B-rated movie star, yet he's such an icon to the republican party? Clearly you dumbasses can't seem to get it past your thick cranium that Sean Penn is doing far in educating the American people on the object failure of bush's adminstration. Nope didn't expect you to understand that, afterall what can a movie star teaches anyone. bush went to Yale, and the bigger question is he any better in rationally discussing international affairs?
BTW dumbasses calling people "pinko" or "communist" is pretty lame, it simply shows that you are still a pathetic wanker with your head up your ass.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 15, 2006 03:23 PM (D6PTH)
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We turned over a rock in the garden, expecting to find a slug. We were not disappointed. There we found SoWhat - AGAIN!!!!
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 15, 2006 04:48 PM (Xw2ki)
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But his shades are cool.
Posted by: J2 at September 16, 2006 01:06 PM (2t+YQ)
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I liked his brother a lot more. Way more talented than this clueless hack.
Posted by: Southerngayrepublican at September 16, 2006 01:31 PM (UVW1X)
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I see the troll came back. He seems to have set up shop. Sorry CY.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 16, 2006 03:19 PM (WxQSC)
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wasn't St Ronnie a B-rated movie star
At least RR managed to get a college degree in econ and sociology...something Sean Penn never managed.
Do you have a college degree?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 16, 2006 04:17 PM (cjDIC)
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What is an object failure?
He is a communist. His dad was a communist.
Reagan beat communists.
I used simple sentences for you.
Posted by: Stormy70 at September 16, 2006 09:08 PM (SXQle)
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Uhm,did Abraham Lincoln have a university degree?
David, don't me blame for having a psychotic torturer in your family, too much in-breeding may be the most obvious cause.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 18, 2006 03:39 PM (cYuQq)
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Uncomfortable History
Several days ago, Pope Benedict XVI recounted comments made by 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel II Paleologos.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Predictably, Muslims around the world are
upset by the recollection:
Turkey's top Islamic cleric, Religious Affairs Directorate head Ali Bardakoglu, asked Benedict on Thursday to apologize about the remarks and unleashed a string of accusations against Christianity, raising tensions before the pontiff's planned visit to Turkey in November on what would be his first papal pilgrimage in a Muslim country.
Bardakoglu said he was deeply offended and called the remarks "extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate."
On Thursday, when the pope returned to Italy, Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said, "It certainly wasn't the intention of the pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and on Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers."
Lombardi insisted the pontiff respects Islam. Benedict wants to "cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, obviously also toward Islam," Lombardi said.
On Friday, Salih Kapusuz, a deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet, or worse, a deliberate distortion of the truths.
"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz blurted out in comments made to the state-owned Anatolia news agency. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."
Would Salih Kapusuz really like to look at the history of the spread of Islam before saying the remarks were "the result of pitiful ignorance?"
I strongly suspect not.
Mohammed himself spread the religion he created by the sword from the Battle of Badr onward. The faith was installed throughout the Middle East, Asia, and Europe by the strength of the sword as much as conversion. From Saudi Arabia through the Hindu Kush ( Kush comes from the Arab root "kushar", or slaughter, literally meaning "slaughter of the Hindus") to Andalusia in what is now modern day Spain, violent jihad in the name of Allah has been the constant companion to the spread of Islam. Islamic violence still marks every corner of the world touched by the amusingly titled "Religion of Peace."
Islam remains the only major world religion that has a primary prophet that advocated and practiced violence to spread his faith. Mohammed led campaigns from Badr to Uhud to the Battle of the Trench and beyond, establishing a long tradition of nearly 1,400 years of violent jihad.
Kapusuz can make reference to the Dark Ages if he would like, but Christian Europe slowly emerged from the Dark Ages through the Renaissance and Reformation; five hundred years later, Islam has yet to emerge from barbarity, a fact revealed every day in newspapers in every nation around the world, as they print stories of Muslims killing "infidels" and subjugating their own people to draconian rule in societies that have been in cultural stasis for over a millennia.
Muslims are of course free to follow their own beliefs, but it is quite telling that they are unwilling or unable to come to grips with the reality of their own history.
Muslims can cry "foul" all they want, but the simple truth of the matter is that the observations of Islam from a man who died 581 years ago still ring true.
How have Muslims responded to Pope Benedict's retelling of Emperor Manuel II Paleologos's 14th century observation?
They've responded with demands for an apology, predictable
threats of violence, and perhaps the
bombing of a church in Gaza.
It remains to see how many people may die as Islam proves how peaceful it is.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Seems that Allahpundit was right the Pope is marked for death, the only problem is the Pope is absolutely correct in his assessment of Modern Islam, even if he was quoting historical documents; it is still a death cult.
To defend your recent actions with the argument that since centuries ago Muslims and Jews were killed by Crusading Christian knights is akin to saying that Modern Islamists are no better than Medieval man and to ignore the thousands of years of peace that Christendom has preached after realizing that its crusades were not in line with the teaching of Christ. It’s damning me to death simply for the fact that a possible relative one thousand years ago did something stupid, and I am to be held accountable for that act. Christianity in a small short period of its 2006 year history may have slipped off the path of its teaching for several decades, but it regained its footing and refocused itself on the true teachings of its founder, Islam, has never strayed from its founder’s word and for its 2000+ year history it has indiscriminately killed any who stood in its way.
Perhaps the disconnect between Modern Islam and Historical Christianity is because Modern Islam is still rooted in the 15th Century and not the 21st Century. If Muslim countries follow the advice of Hakem al-Mutairi, secretary general of Kuwait's Islamic Umma, or Islamic Nation, party, urging Muslim countries to recall their ambassadors from the Vatican until the pope apologizes for what Mr. al-Mutairi called his "calumnies" against Islam, then perhaps we should hold these same people responsible for their calumnies against humanity.
Posted by: David M at September 15, 2006 09:11 AM (4Xncc)
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I didn't know about this pope or what to think of how he would do, but this one statement shows he has more than our leaders on both sides.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 15, 2006 10:37 AM (6wTpy)
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The Islamofacists will continue to target Christian sites simply because they are Christian. The church in gaza obviously has nothing to do with the Pope's comments and should not be attacked for it. Despite this racist attack on the church and "collective punishment", the islamofacists will claim racism and collective punishment the next time something doesn't go their way. How hypocritical.
Posted by: jay at September 15, 2006 11:24 AM (D23Kd)
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What, the Muslums are upset? I dont believe you. They are such a easy going bunch.
Posted by: Web at September 15, 2006 11:52 AM (hHlfn)
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LOOK AT WHAT HE's PREACHING FROM FIRSTLY:
"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)
“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)
THIS IS THE BIBLE!
If you want the truth you must stop quoting out of context, once this is done for the Bible you see the truth THEN DO THE SAME FOR THE QURAN!
Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and Palestine - but they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such spirit needs to be reciprocated.
Amazing how a tiny bit of in-depth bit of research can reveal the truth:
Misconception 7
Islam tolerates the killing of innocents because:
o Muslims can be terrorists
o Muslims engage in `holy wars' (jihad)
o Islam spread by the sword
o it has a harsh and cruel judicial system
This misconception is one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam today. And yet in the Qur'an, the Creator unambiguously states (translation),
[17:33] Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law)
Based on this verse, it is Islamically unlawful to murder anyone who is innocent of certain crimes. It is well to remember at this point the distinction made above between Qur'an and Sunnah, and the Muslims: only the Qur'an and Sunnah are guaranteed to be in accordance with what the Creator desires, whereas the Muslims may possibly deviate. Hence, if any Muslim kills an innocent person, that Muslim has committed a grave sin, and certainly the action cannot be claimed to have been done "in the name of Islam."
It should be clear, then, that "Muslim terrorist" is almost an oxymoron: by killing innocent people, a Muslim is commiting an awesome sin, and Allah is Justice personified. This phrase is offensive and demeaning of Islam, and it should be avoided. It is hoped that as the general level of public awareness and understanding of Islam increases, people will keep "terrorism" and "Islam" separate from each other, not to be used in the same phrase.
Another reason advanced in support of the misconception is that the Creator has imposed `jihad' on us. The term "holy war" is from the time of the Crusades and originated in Europe as a rallying cry against the Muslims in Jerusalem. Jihad is an Arabic word meaning struggle, but in the context of many verses in the Qur'an, it carries the meaning of military struggle, or war. Allah gradually introduced the obligation of military struggle to the Muslim community at the time of the Messenger (saas). The first verse ever revealed in that connection is as follows (translation),
[22:39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them;
This verse lays down the precondition for all war in Islam: there must exist certain oppressive conditions on the people. The Creator unequivocally orders us to fight oppression and persecution, even at the expense of bloodshed as the following verse shows (translation),
[2:190-192] And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.
As one might imagine, the method of military struggle has been clearly and extensively defined in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Since this subject is a huge one, we simply summarize part of it by noting that it is unlawful to kill women, children, the infirm, the old, and the innocent. From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find:
[4:52:257] Narrated 'Abdullah: During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.
A related misconception to jihad is often propagated by Muslims who say that "Jihad is only for self-defense of physical borders." The Qur'an and Sunnah refute this notion categorically. As the verses cited above show, jihad is obligatory wherever there is injustice, and Muslims need not acknowledge imaginary lines around the earth when it comes to upholding this obligation. The Messenger of Allah (saas) has also commented on this extensively in the Sunnah. From the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find that,
[4:52:65] Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."
Hence, the Creator obligates us to fight wherever people are being grossly deprived of freely hearing or practicing the Message of Allah as contained in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Sayyed Qutb, a famous Muslim scholar eloquently discusses the notion of jihad and self-defense in his book Milestones,
"If we insist on calling Islamic jihad a defensive movement, then we must change the meaning of the word `defense' and mean by it `defense of man' against all those elements which limit his freedom. These elements take the form of beliefs and concepts, as well as of political systems, based on economic, racial, or class distinction."
A third reason often cited for the misconception about Islam which says that this way of life tolerates the killing of innocents is that the judicial system of Islam is unnecessarily harsh. This reason is weak in two respects. First, it presupposes that human beings are more just and more merciful than the Creator, and therefore we can change the law. Second, it is often based on gross oversimplifications of Islamic law, such as saying "all thieves get their hands cut off."
The Qur'an and Sunnah make it clear that the law of retaliation (or equality) governs us for murder and physical injury, but forgiveness is better as the following verses from the Qur'an show (translation),
[2:178] O you who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.
[42:40-43] The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loves not those who do wrong. But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame. The blame is only against those who oppress men and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a grievous penalty. And whoever is patient and forgiving, these most surely are actions due to courage.
The Creator ordained the law of retaliation on us knowing full well that we might question it. In many non-Muslim societies today, there are ongoing debates about the death penalty. In Islam, this discussion is moot: the Creator has decided the matter for us. He has however given us an interesting verse in the Qur'an which advises to consider the matter carefully if we want to understand it (translation follows),
[2:179] And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O people of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.
Most people are also unaware of the stringent conditions which must be met for the law of retaliation to be applicable. The Sunnah is full of examples of the Messenger of Allah showing us when the law's preconditions were fulfilled. For example, a thief is only liable to lose his or her hand if the item stolen exceeds a certain value, and if it is proven that the item was taken from its normal resting place. Stealing food is not punishable by the loss of one's hand, and other items are exempt as well. This is just an example of how gingerly the law is applied in Islam.
Finally, another reason advanced for this prevalent misconception is that Islam `spread by the sword'. It should be clear by now that we must always distinguish between the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Muslims when it comes to determining what the Creator has asked of us. Allah has stated clearly in the Qur'an (translation),
[2:256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever rejects Satan (and what he calls to) and believes in Allah, he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handhold, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
Hence, it is impossible to accept Islam under duress. Even if misguided Muslims were to try to `force' Islam somehow on others, it would not be accepted by the Creator based on this verse.
Historical arguments that try to demonstrate that Muslims did not `convert others by force' are actually secondary to the argument given above. However, it is worth noting that historically, Islam did spread by peaceful means. The Message of the Creator was conveyed to Africa and to southeast Asia by trading Muslims, and today the largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia. The military expeditions that led to the conquest of large swathes of territory in Europe and central Asia were all marked by tolerance of other creeds and faith.
Again, it is important to remember that Allah declares it IMPOSSIBLE that Islam can be forced on a person, hence Muslims find it useless to try!
Posted by: Zain at September 15, 2006 01:59 PM (ySmOB)
6
If fundamentalist christians reacted the same way muslims do to criticism, the whole of the USA would be ablaze with "christian terrorism".
That it isn't, speaks volumes.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 15, 2006 01:59 PM (6CeBd)
7
Nope, fundamental christians simply bomb abortion clinics. It is amusing that the pope be making these comments;, he was a Hitler Youth, the head of a church that colluded with the Nazis, a church that sanctioned genocide in Africa and much of the New World in stealing the land and wealth of the indigenous people, a church that gave the world the Inquisition and...wait, covers up the raping of alter boys.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 15, 2006 03:35 PM (cYuQq)
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Sowhat,
when was the last abortion clinic bombed? and even so, in a country of over 250million christians an act of christian theological violence happens once a year if at all, yet in countries with less than a million muslims, violence is as much a reality as their beards and burqas. liberals always try to fight an argument with "i know you are but what am i" but when we're practical about this, the two acts just dont compare AT ALL!!
Posted by: k-det at September 15, 2006 05:02 PM (aaP7C)
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Dear Zain,
Shut up and sell that crap somewhere else.
In countries where you kill off the those that know, and fail to educate the ones following behind, it's easy to re write whatever you'd like.
Lies, no matter how many times told are still lies.
I do appreciate how Muslims are always yelling about how "If you ever call me violent - I'm gonna come over there and kick your @ss.!!"
People are falling for it.
You can see how much the rest of the world is really starting to love those crazy Islamic folk.
Posted by: Jeff in Kabul at September 16, 2006 03:22 PM (Kap9d)
10
Zain:
The two verses you cite from The Bible are certainly taken out of context. The passage from Luke is from a parable, where the character in the parable makes that comment; it is not a statement of the Christian faith.
As to the quote from Matthew, the statement itself is a quote from the Old Testament book of Micah (7:6); furthermore, it is a true statement that following Christ often results in turning family member against family member, a tug-of-war between those who believe and those who do not -- ironically, much like today's struggle of Christianity and Islam. Quite prophetic.
Naturally, if your point is one of how context can influence the argument, then your quotes from Matthew and Luke are understandable.
However, if, as I suspect, these quotes were made as an indictment of The Bible and Christianity in order to place Islam on some kind of moral equivalence with Christianity, then you're sadly off base.
I grow weary of the argument (even the company line trumpeted by President Bush) that Islam is a peaceful faith, that violence is frowned upon, etc., etc. Current events speak for themselves: bombings, violence, protests and threats of violence whenever Islam or Mohammad's authority is even questioned or is the subject of satire (the recent Dutch cartoons spoofing Mohammad come to mind).
In contrast, Christianity and so-called "Bible Belt" Christians are regularly ridiculed, satirized, diminished, winked-at, relegated to the Bible-thumping mountain hick stereotype, and written off on a daily basis, not to mention Christianity's negative treatment in popular entertainment, without so much as a shooting, kidnapping, beheading, or bombing - smart-aleck comments about abortion clinics aside (and c'mon SoWhat, how many of those have happened compared to the WORLDWIDE phenomenon of violence that followers of Islam have spawned in just the last 20 years alone?).
The proof is in the pudding. Add the number of persons killed by twisted human beings claiming Christianity as their inspiration during the last 50 years in one column and compare it to the atrocities committed by followers of Islam in the other. I'm betting the ratio is one to ten thousand, weighted on the side of Islam.
Oh -- and Zain? You can go on quoting the Koran all day long and its emphasis on peace. If the average Muslim on the streets of the middle east believes their doing the will of Allah by murdering innocents or applauding those who do, your words are meaningless.
Judging Islam by what they do instead of what they say, there is only one conclusion: Either Islam is evil, or significant plurality of its followers are. So doctor: heal thyself (and your faith) or shut up.
Posted by: Atticus_NC at September 16, 2006 04:03 PM (0xyYg)
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Firstly Jeff: "Shut up and sell that crap somewhere else." Why should i because i have a view different from yours? Where’s free speech and all that gone? If you don’t like it don’t read it.
Secondly Atticus_NC: "However, if, as I suspect, these quotes were made as an indictment of The Bible and Christianity in order to place Islam on some kind of moral equivalence with Christianity, then you're sadly off base." At this time it is essential to remember Islam looks at the teachings of Christianity in basic form teachings of Jesus a prophet, thus we are taught to respect Christianity.
Back to the point at hand:
Don’t judge a religion by the actions of a few idiots!
The problem nowadays is (which I have never seen before) the fact people are no longer judging Islam by reading the Quran and studying the prophet but are looking to politically and finacially motivated individuals in the modern world as well as the media for an interpretation of Islam which is clearly wrong! Seems the pope is one of these people!
NO ONE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF ANY RELIGION SO DONT TAKE ANY INDIVIDUALS TO REPRESENT IT, LOOK AT ITS TEACHINGS AND TEXTS e.g. Quran.
The paragraph above also applies the people in the picture. But you take about free speech but when they do it you condemn it.
NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE CALL FOR WAR IN THE NAME OF ISLAM SHOULD NOT MATTER BECASUE BEING THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD, YOU’D THINK PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A LIITLE KNOWLEDGE AND KNOW THIS IS NOT FROM ISLAM, BETTER YET READ THE QURAN AND SEE FOR YOURSLELF.
If the pope was right why are the Vatican not supporting such claims? If such claim where true why Pope John Paul was is adamant to build bridges, surly if what the pope said to day was true pope John Paul would never have wanted to get involved with anything Islamic.
What about the Crusades, the Muslim world does not blame Christianity for that. Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and Palestine - but they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such spirit needs to be reciprocated.
Posted by: Zain at September 16, 2006 05:12 PM (NXyYo)
12
By picture i meant pictures of those people burning that model of the pope in the news etc.
Posted by: Zain at September 16, 2006 05:17 PM (NXyYo)
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Zain, SoWhat -
When someone from CAIR recently said that Jesus would have been a Muslim, where were the hundreds of thousands of Christians taking to the streets in protest? Where were the signs that said, "Behead those who insult Christians"? Where were the burning cars? Burning flags? Burning effigies? Where were mosques fire-bombed? Where were Muslim reporters kidnapped and forced to convert to Christianity? How many trains and subways have Christians blown up lately?
Your comparisons are weak and pathetic. The worst part is that you just don't realize the difference.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at September 16, 2006 11:28 PM (jHBWL)
14
As an American-Moslem, I know Islam well to tell you the Pope is stating historical facts. I was shocked to see the Pope retract what he said. Why say "I am sorry" when there is nothing to be sorry about. I think it is time for these retarded people speaking on behalf of all moslems to either be quiet or wake up. A violent Islam is not the word of GOD, what happened in the past was wrong, they should be sorry on behalf of heir ancestors. But at the same time, at the age of the Crusades and other Holy wars, Jihad or Holy war was not just Moslems, other people were doing it to. Many kings and countries used religion as a pretex for war, Islam was not unique. It was wrong then and it is wrong now. It was criminal then and it is criminal now. Kids are raised learning Islam and the sword are one. Jews raise their kids to defend their religion by force. This must stop. Time out. Another proof why religions of the past don't work today. The only flavor of religion that we need is one that is in the place of worship not on the battlefield. The Pope should not appologize, other people, like what I am doing should support him to.
Moslems all over the world are terrorized by the fanatic criminal element taking over Islam.
Posted by: Abdulla Bin-Abeeh at September 17, 2006 10:17 AM (B43Go)
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Spreading religious doctrine through the use of force, violence and cruelty? Oh, surely only radical Islam could be accused of such.
Inquisition.
Posted by: Maudiemae at September 17, 2006 10:59 AM (cHGaK)
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Spreading religious doctrine through the use of force, violence and cruelty? Oh, surely only radical Islam could be accused of such.
Inquisition.
Posted by Maudiemae at September 17, 2006 10:59 AM
Maudiemae - get real, that was hundreds of years ago. Compare TODAY's Christian practices with TODAY's radical Muslem practices. Christians left that behaviour behind, the radical Muslems haven't.
I guess you're saying that we just have to put up with it for a few hundred more years.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at September 17, 2006 11:30 AM (jHBWL)
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Islam coming to the West is similar to that old Twilight Zone episode where the alien told the people of the world they were only here "to serve man". In the end of the program you learn that is that name of a book one of them has. To Serve Man - it's a cook book.
Islam is the religion of peace only when there is a single Muslim alone in a room. As soon as two of them get together, if they can't find someone else to fight, they'll fight each other.
While Christians are forgiven their sins, Muslims are not. Christians have 10 commandments, Muslims have 10,000. Muslims have rules whether a man should stand or sit to urinate (sit) which way the bathroom should face, how many times to perform a set series of motions in which direction while praying 5 times a day, can you paint your child's face (decorate yes, animals no), can you let your trousers sag (no). Remember, it's not "no, that's in bad taste" it's "no, you will burn in hell for eternity".
As to it being the fastest growing, that is true. Since most of there adherents are from third world countries in the past they had families of 10 and only 3 survived to adulthood, thus the four wives bit. Now, if only one blows himself up killing kuffer (filthy vile infidels) the other nine are added to the final tally. Because of western medicine they have a net gain of 6 and they're the fastest growing.
Posted by: Jeff in Kabul at September 17, 2006 03:07 PM (Kap9d)
18
Wow... I can not believe the number of thick headed racists in this country.
On another note...
"Compare TODAY's Christian practices with TODAY's radical Muslem practices. Christians left that behaviour behind, the radical Muslems haven't."
True, but our crime is just more subtle now:
IGNORACE
Posted by: joe at September 17, 2006 10:04 PM (72+9u)
19
Well Islam is a Religion of Peace....
oops we blew up the WTC..
Islam means peace...
oops we blew up Bali...
Islam is a peaceful Religion...
OOooops we killed Daniel Pearl...
Islam teaches us peace...
Oops we killed a Nun...
Posted by: The Truth Speaks at September 18, 2006 06:26 AM (QxKL5)
20
Before 9/11 you'd be hard pressed to find a member of the general public you thought Islam was about violence, truth be told on-one really cared but suddenly after 9/11 Islam is spread by the sword this, Mohammad (pbuh) is evil that! Why? Lack of knowledge and believing all the press tell you. Words like RADICLE Islam etc. THERES NO SUCH THING anything, like 9/11 is not RADICLE ISLAM its simply not from Islam.
"If anyone has killed one person [unjustly] it is as if he has killed the whole of mankind, and if he has saved one life it is as if he saved the whole of mankind."
Quran 5:32
I am a Muslim and wish for nothing but peace as Islam teaches:
[O humankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know and deal with each other in kindness (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God (is he who is) the most righteous of you, and God is Knower, Aware.] (Al-Hujurat 49:13)
Admittedly the reason Islam has such a bad rep is because individuals have taken the own motives (finical or political) and left the teachings of Islam altogether yet still believe they are Muslim.
Posted by: Zain at September 19, 2006 03:55 AM (E2RJu)
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A Question of Literacy at Think Progress
Poor Faiz.
He seems to have problems with the simplest of concepts:
Weekly Standard editor Fred Barnes appeared on Fox this morning to discuss his recent meeting with President Bush in the Oval Office. The key takeaway for Barnes was that "bin Laden doesn't fit with the administration's strategy for combating terrorism." Barnes said that Bush told him capturing bin Laden is "not a top priority use of American resources." Watch it.
[snip]
Bush's priorities have always been skewed. Just months after declaring he wanted bin Laden "dead or alive," Bush said, "I truly am not that concerned about him." Turning his attention away from bin Laden, Bush trained his focus on Iraq — a country he now admits had "nothing" to do with 9/11.
Capturing bin Laden, as Rep. Nancy Pelosi recently pointed out, will not necessarily make America safer because it would come five years too late. Yet, capturing or killing the man responsible for 9/11 should remain a high priority.
Bush said he wanted bin Laden "dead or alive"
less than a week after 9/11, and in March of 2002 said that he was "not that concerned about him" in the following
context after the Taliban and al Qaeda has been driven from power in Afghanistan.
Q Mr. President, in your speeches now you rarely talk or mention Osama bin Laden. Why is that? Also, can you tell the American people if you have any more information, if you know if he is dead or alive? Final part -- deep in your heart, don't you truly believe that until you find out if he is dead or alive, you won't really eliminate the threat of --
THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.
Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.
So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.
And there will be other battles in Afghanistan. There's going to be other struggles like Shahikot, and I'm just as confident about the outcome of those future battles as I was about Shahikot, where our soldiers are performing brilliantly. We're tough, we're strong, they're well-equipped. We have a good strategy. We are showing the world we know how to fight a guerrilla war with conventional means.
Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.
And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.
Faiz, of course, took a single-line comment out of a much larger comment, completely out of context. Sadly, Faiz shows he just didn't understand what Bush was saying here. If he did, he couldn't logically disagree with the President's point.
How did Bush begin his response, back in 2002? With a concept Faiz and most other Democrats can't apparently grasp four years later:
Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.
Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is -- as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide -- if, in fact, he's hiding at all.
Let's slow it down and break it into tiny little chunks for our liberal friends to comprehend.
Osama bin Laden, in September 2001, was the undisputed leader of al Qaeda in all capacities. By March 2002 when the President made this comment, we were not sure if Osama was even still alive, or if he had been killed on chaotic Afghan battlefields.
Bush is showing her that he understands terrorist organizations do not have a rigid top-down hierarchy. Taking out Osama, while a great public relations victory for the United States and a temporary psychological blow to his followers, would have very little effect on the overall distributed network of cells. The invasion of Afghanistan drove Osama completely out of tactical and operational control of al Qaeda, and thoroughly isolated him. He is still a nice trophy if we happen to catch him, but as a current planner and plotter of terrorism, he is of very little importance, and our top resources should go towards fighting those that still have an active role.
That is what Bush meant over four years ago when he said that:
…focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission.
Bush was precisely right in March of 2002. Even with four years to think about it, Democrats such as Faiz can't seem to grasp a concept so simple it can be explained in less than 30 seconds.
Perhaps he needs another example, one that is a little simpler. Let's use baseball.
A major league batter facing Nolan Ryan at the top of his game was going against one of the greatest pitchers of all time. A hypothetical major league batter facing Nolan Ryan four years after he retired would be facing much less of a threat.
As a nation fighting a global war against Islamic terrorists and the nation-states that support them, we have a lot of high priorities.
Finding a way to decrease sectarian violence and dismantle the insurgency in Iraq. Defeating the Taliban and finding a way to destroy the opium crop that supports it Afghanistan that financially supports it would be another. Finding a way to stop nuclear weapons development and terrorist support in Iran, a nation led by a sect that believes in their ability to force the return of their savior through a burning of the world is another. Dismantling active terrorist cells and the attacks they are attempting is yet another high priority.
Dedicating a large amount of men and resources to track down and kill a single figurehead that lives in remote isolation and who is not thought to play a direct role in planning or executing attacks for over four years is not a high priority, nor should it be. Osama bin Laden, other than sporadically appearing in cheerleading videos, has been taken out of the picture.
Bush knew that in 2002. Four years later, Think Progress and other liberals have yet to understand that basic concept.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
12:36 AM
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1
I really really wanted to comment on this, but you said everyting. So I'll just leave it with this:
/nod
--Jason
Posted by: JasonColeman at September 15, 2006 01:42 AM (As32a)
2
Defending the indefensible. You should be ashamed.
Posted by: Fred at September 15, 2006 05:04 AM (xX+1y)
3
I add the point that we don't have 100,000 Special Forces personnel... we don't have 100,000 extra infantry sitting around.... and pulling 100,000 infantry from where they are now would leave some rather big holes.
Posted by: steve sturm at September 15, 2006 06:32 AM (XBWtm)
Posted by: Specter at September 15, 2006 06:53 AM (ybfXM)
5
The problem with your baseball analogy is that Nolan Ryan 4 years later could still walk on to the field on any given day bottom of the 9th with 2 outs/2 strikes, and throw one pitch and get the out to win the game. That's all Osama has to do is stay out there long enough to throw another ball.
And as far as the post goes, it would seem hypocritical to give Faiz a hard time when GWB is quoting the man now. If Osama isn't important, why did GWB just go around the country quoting the man multiple times at each speech? Would the president of the US quote several times from a man that "he doesn't spend much time on" or "isn't that concerned about"? If so, maybe we can expect GWB to quote John Karr next...
Bush doesn't devote resources to capturing Osama because he NEEDS Osama to be the bogey man he can scare the American people with (Pass my intelligence program or Osama will getcha in bed!).
Posted by: matt a at September 15, 2006 07:17 AM (GvAmg)
6
I mean if CY wants to be just another Bush apologist, make sure he reads this.
Posted by: Fred at September 15, 2006 07:21 AM (dbo1X)
7
Osama bin Laden is finished, whether he is dead or alive. His role as Daddy Warbucks is over, as all monetary transactions from his former companies are monitored. His wives and children should trade-mark his likeness, and cash in on T-shirt sales, don't miss the opportunity Castro had with the Che Guevara. I've been using nothing but Osama targets for years!.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 15, 2006 08:31 AM (vFS/o)
8
Sorry Fred...if you believe anything that comes out of DU then you are moonbat qualified. Need a NBC suit to visit there.....But riddle me this Fred....according to DU, how long until Rove is indicted in Plamegate?
Posted by: Specter at September 15, 2006 11:30 AM (ybfXM)
9
Well Specter, if i didn't believe it before, I believe it now. You went with the standard, "Shout-Down, insult, tease, make-fun of, and threaten anybody who disagrees with the right," and followed up with a good variation of #7's entry, try to make a joke, then change the subject. Where is bin Laden? Apologists.
Posted by: Fred at September 15, 2006 05:08 PM (xX+1y)
10
Some of you guys talk a lot of garbage for people commenting from the house.
If we havn't found him - perhaps it's because -you ain't lookin'-.
Posted by: Jeff in Kabul at September 16, 2006 03:30 PM (Kap9d)
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September 14, 2006
They Call Themselves Peace Activists
I know very little about the credibility of the writer or the veracity of his claims, but if he is correct, it appears than one liberal "peace movement" organization may be very close to crossing the line into becoming open terrorist sympathizers (h/t Michelle Malkin):
As a front group for Palestinian terrorists, the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) sends young people from all over the world to the training fields of the West Bank and Gaza to learn from terrorists and to aid them logistically. Stop the ISM has now obtained photographs of ISM leaders and organizers holding AK-47 assault rifles. The images show some of the ISM women disguised as Jews living in the West Bank and in the company of an Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade terrorist.
One of our volunteers in the United Kingdom for Stop the ISM managed to infiltrate the ISM late last June in the Holy Land where the ISM operates in direct support of terrorists. Our volunteer (who prefers to remain anonymous to avoid retaliatory attacks) has had prior experience going undercover for the police in the UK. The photos and intelligence he brought back are proving invaluable to intelligence agencies watching the ISM and have been in official hands for over a month prior to this publication.
Unfortunately, neither U.S. Homeland Security nor the Israeli security agencies have to date regarded the ISM as a serious threat. Some of these ISM people in these photos managed to escape; nevertheless, arrests have been made, and more are forthcoming.
If the ISM sounds vaguely familiar, perhaps a picture will help you remember.
That's ISM activist
Rachel Corrie burning a hand-drawn American flag in front of Palestinian school children. Corrie was a far left activist that joined the ISM her senior year at Evergreen State College in Washington. She was killed in 2003 by an Israeli bulldozer as she attempted to protect a network of tunnels being used to smuggle weapons from Egypt into Gaza for Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
It doesn't look like things have changed much, unless you want to consider the possibility that ISM activists are making their long-suspected support for terrorists a little more "hands on" than it once was.
The caption for this photo
reads in part:
Gabi laughs it up while Alan, the other ISM volunteer who works at the Faisal Youth Hostel, smiles with his machine gun. To the far right is the al Aksa Martyrs Brigade terrorist overseeing the festivities. Real “peace activists” don't pose with machine guns in the company of terrorists, but the ISM does.
What else is there to say?
From getting run over defending terrorist's weapons tunnels to proudly displaying them in Palestinian prisons, we've got only one thing to say to the leftists of the ISM:
You've come a long way, baby.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:27 PM
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There's a good documentary, "The Weather Underground" with the '60s-'70s players, Bernadine Dohrn, Bill Ayers, Mark Rudd et al. Shows what well-educated, self-hating Americans can do. I'm sure this next generation of "Peace Warriors" studied the techniques of the previous one.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 14, 2006 03:00 PM (GIL7z)
2
Democratic liberal heaven. The right to do what ever the hell you want at the expense of everyone. Ship 'em off to Guantamo so they can stay with some friends for a while.
Posted by: jay at September 14, 2006 03:58 PM (KgcVp)
3
Aren't they British? I thought they were British, not American.
Posted by: an Israeli at September 14, 2006 06:09 PM (Ty4gR)
4
ISM is a Palestinian Arab organization with branches everywhere. Wikipedia has an entry on the ISM.
ISM is your basic terrorist/tyrant leftist enabler. Just view them as an international outreach for Palistinian terrorists to gather supporters, $'s, and favorable propaganda. Rachel "St. Pancake" Corrie's death was a boon for the organization and, from which, we saw the first photographic restaging/Pallywood pics.
ISM supporters should be viewed the same way as Hamas terrorists.
Posted by: iconoclast at September 14, 2006 07:40 PM (Jpc2l)
5
Where's a Caterpillar D9 when you need one?
Posted by: tim at September 14, 2006 08:42 PM (xqtXG)
6
Wow. I want to get all angry about them, but all I can do is shake my head and marvel at the weirdness. Maybe it's good for our counrty if these fools don't get much attention, but I'm still going to forward this to my friends though.
Posted by: brando at September 14, 2006 11:30 PM (K+VjK)
7
Hrm, this reminds me of a city in Europe. Eeeh, how you saaaaay, Stockholm Syndrome? Maybe like a backdoor version of it. A buddy of mine from college went to Israel and did the hang-out-with-Palestinians thing. I didn't really talk to him too much about it, because it was a little weird and I know he's become a little bit of a whackjob. Either way, it doesn't really surprise me that these people are posing with AKs. They go to these peoples' houses, drink tea with them and, as he said, "Enjoy good Arab hospitality," and hate Israelis. Makes em feel part of a struggle, I guess. It's all fun and games til someone gets run over by a bulldozer, I guess.
Posted by: paully at September 14, 2006 11:47 PM (M4+s7)
8
"It's all fun and games til someone gets run over by a bulldozer, I guess"
I'll be sure to tell this child it is just fun and games she's in for
http://youtube.com/watch?v=icV_vN6lXEo
this isn't a suicide bombing. It doesn't take a tunnel, or explossives to operate. It's just your casual stone throwing on passing cars (which too had taken lives) which is always followed by a few molotovs thrown as well, since Arafat had used his TV to broadcast songs about the Palestinian child's toy being molotov, and he should get used to cary them on regullar basis. (While we were getting killed everyday and still sticking to Oslo, waiting for its results to sink in by improving their lives with the funds Arafat got for them, and the sinking in of hope and education, never mind).
All I'm saying is this type of things don't even make it to the news. It's nothing. It's not your major suicide bombing, it's just the daily "all fun and play", the Arafat legacy way.
Posted by: an Israeli at September 15, 2006 07:34 AM (7A241)
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Loser Control
A pathetic excuse for a human being named Kimbeer Vill shot 20 people at Dawson College in Montreal, Canada yesterday. One of those people later died as a result of her wounds, and six other remain in critical condition, two of them are barely clinging to life. I pray that the injured pull through and are able to get on with their lives with a minimum of physical pain and psychological trauma.
As for Gill, I hope he doesn't mind the smell of roasting meat in a fire that burns, but does not consume. I guess I'm not that compassionate a conservative.
Gill seems cut from the same cloth as his apparent idols, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the psychopathic killers of Columbine that were also into the gothic vampire loser fantasy world of real and imagined death that some people retreat into when they can't cope with reality.
Predictably, the debate about gun control is
heating up in Canada, and I'm certain calls will ripple down across our northern border as well.
But this isn't an issue of gun control. This is an issue of loser control.
This is Kimbeer Vill. He is
a caricature in many ways, the stereotypical Goth-loving, vampire wannabe with no friends and an anti-social attitude. He is,
was, quite simply a loser, and he shot 20 people to prove just how much of a loser he could be.
The gun he carries in the photo above is the
Beretta CX4 Storm. Ironically, the CX4 and
similar designs were developed largely with the law enforcement community in mind, being developed as longer-ranged companions to police sidearms that still used the officer's pistol ammunition and magazines.
While I cannot claim to have a knowledge of Canadian firearms laws and will leave the details to those more familiar with their provisions, I do know that in the United States, gun dealers do have available to them a certain amount of "loser control" built into firearms laws. I know this firsthand, because one of the many hats I wear is as a part-time gun dealer working behind the gun counter of a sporting goods store.
Even if a potential firearms purchaser has all the appropriate documentation and is cleared by the BATF background check, I still have the right as the seller to deny a suspect purchaser a sale
for any reason, or no reason at all.
Most reasons are concrete, but a lot of it is intuition and nuance that boil down to the fact that the dealer doesn't like the way a customer looks or acts or answers a question. It is
de facto loser control, a latitude given to dealers to use their experience and judgement to weed out potentially dangerous people who we feel should not be armed.
There is or course no way to know if Kimbeer Vill displayed the kind of behavior that might have caused a dealer to have second thoughts, but as Vill had a penchant from dressing "Goth," in going for the vampire look, and according to what his blog reveals, for reveling in thoughts of death and dying, he seems like he would have been easy enough to red flag. Another dealer I know recently turned down a perspective purchaser based upon very similar reasons.
Gun control as policy very rarely if ever works, but loser control can be surprisingly effective.
It's too bad it was not more effective here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:58 AM
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1
Don't outlaw guns, Outlaw GOTH.
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 14, 2006 12:51 PM (JSetw)
2
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Posted by: jay at September 14, 2006 01:14 PM (KgcVp)
3
Of course you ban the sale of assault rifle like the one he holds in the photo, conduct more in-depth background checks and a mandatory waiting period would probably help.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 02:00 PM (D6PTH)
4
Of course you ban the sale of assault rifle like the one he holds in the photo, conduct more in-depth background checks and a mandatory waiting period would probably help.
(1) That firearm isn't in any way, shape, or form an assault rifle by any recognized definition;
(2) Assault rifles are already banned in Canada and heavily restricted in the United States;
(3) More intensive background checks cannot predict future behavior;
(4) Mandatory waiting periods have done nothing to deter or reduce crime.
Other than that, good points.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at September 14, 2006 02:38 PM (g5Nba)
5
It's STILL all Bush's fault. Right, SoWhat?
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 14, 2006 02:52 PM (Xw2ki)
6
Notice how these emotionally disturbed individuals always attack a "Gun Free Zone". Notice they give shooting ranges, and Police barracks a miss; no wonder why.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 14, 2006 06:36 PM (GIL7z)
7
more in-depth background checks and a mandatory waiting period would probably help.
Waiting periods are a proven crock. If the current FBI check doesn't flag you, I can't imagine what you have in mind.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 14, 2006 11:12 PM (6CeBd)
8
So here comes the Lefty Slugs that want to blame everybody that owns a gun. I am a gun owner. We have laws, more than enough laws that govern gun ownership. The problem in they are not enforced. Guns are illegal in NYC, DC, two of the highest crime rates in the nation. Double digit murder rates. Punish the criminals not the honest gun owners. I don't understand why states don't adopt the law that was introduced by the NRA. Zero tolerance for anyone who commita a crime with a gun. Richmond, Va. had a terrible crime problem until they adopted that policy.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at September 18, 2006 10:13 AM (elhVA)
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Revising History
Captain's Quarters (h/t Insty) notes this morning that there appears to be some revisionism occurring in the wake of the recent war between Israel and Hezbollah. Arab states and much of the world media originally trumpeted that the war was a undisputed victory for Hezbollah.
Now, those most directly affected
seem to think otherwise:
The war stripped more than a few masks from the players in the region. Nasrallah now has to contend with the fallout from his impatient attack on Israel, from the Lebanese and also from the Iranians who had wanted Hezbollah and their rockets as a threat to be feared, not an attack to be weathered and then discounted. His image as the protector of Lebanon has been shattered, and the Lebanese now see him as a threat instead of a savior. After years of Syrian control, they now have to recognize that a large portion of their country is under de facto Iranian occupation, and they're not happy about it.
This has eroded the veneer of victory that Nasrallah placed on the cease-fire. Western commentators and no shortage of Israeli pundits pointed to Nasrallah's claims to have prevailed as a devastating propaganda offensive that would make Israel and the West look weaker than ever. Arabs have taken a more realistic view of the war's results, including the fact that Nasrallah has to make those claims from undisclosed locations to this day. They scoff at his bravado, noting that Nasrallah's vaunted rocket attacks killed more Israeli Arabs than anyone else and proved singularly ineffective as a deterrent to the Israeli incursion.
I've noted on
several occasions almost a month ago that the war went far worse for Hezbollah than the world media was willing to admit.
Hezbollah suffered 500-600+ confirmed fatalities at the hands of the IDF, and another 800-1200 are estimated to have been killed in Israeli air strikes. As Hezbollah's active fighters
were estimated to number 1,000 or less with 3,000-5,000 more available before this most recent conflict began, it seems that many more such "victories" will see Hezbollah's military wing wiped from the face of the earth.
In addition to Hezbollah's combat loses, the damage to the infrastructure that they brought upon southern Lebanon is quite severe, and will take years of reconstruction and billions of dollars to repair.
But Hezbollah is not by any stretch the only loser in this war, as the world media, and Arab journalists and photojournalists in particular, have suffered tremendous blows to their credibility.
Early on, Hezbollah attempted to
recycle the white phosphorus/WMD claims made in the invasion of Fallujah, and the media willing lapped it up without properly investigating the claims. When those claims were
conclusively debunked by chemical analysis of tissue samples take from the victims, the media brushed it aside, and took a hit to their credibility as a result.
Shortly thereafter, an Israeli air strike a mile outside the village of Qana was blamed for the death of nearly 60 family members, most of them children. Mostly Arab photojournalists flocked to the scene and flooded the world press with photo after gruesome photo of dead children, and bloggers began questioning whether or not the photos were staged by Hezbollah for the benefit of the press. The media vehemently denied the claims of staging, even after video evidence of a rescue worker dubbed "Green Helmet" was caught on video directing stretcher bearers to remove the body from an ambulance so that it could be re-shot by an assembled throng of photographers.
Time and again, photojournalists took
questionable photograph after
questionable photograph after
questionable photograph, causing increasing scrutiny of photos coming out of Lebanon, where bloggers wondered if scenes were being posed and manipulated.
The came
concrete proof that one prolific photographer has been manipulating images in photo-editing software on his computer before releasing them to publication. He was fired. When a
second accusation of fraud was leveled at his work, his entire body of work--over 900 photos--was deleted.
The Israeli-Hezbollah war showed the weaknesses of a news-gathering system where story framing and composition is based
as much on marketability as it is factuality, and blatant control by Hezbollah was tacitly agreed to and under-reported by those who had their
scenes and stories often chosen and manipulated for them by Hezbollah minders.
Time may indeed show that there were actually three losers in the Israeli-Hezbollah War. Israel lost the political battle, Hezbollah lost the military war, and the media lost its most cherished asset, credibility.
Of all of these losses, the media may have the toughest time recovering.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:40 AM
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Did Israel achieved any of its objectives? Did they secure the return of their soldiers who were captured in South Lebanon,and used as a casus beli? Did Israel stop Hezbollah from firing rockets up to the last day? Israel lost politcally, militarily and morally.
BTW your claim of Israel using phosphorous weapons is bull - like everything else you try to prove. From the lips of the aggresors themselves..
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761910.html
Posted by: Sowhat at September 14, 2006 10:20 AM (D6PTH)
2
Of course that should read...BTW your claim of Israel NOT using phosphorous weapons is bull..
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 10:23 AM (cYuQq)
3
France TV Channel 2 is suing all those who claimed the Mohammad Al-Dura movie was staged (and it was). May the truth be told.
Posted by: jay at September 14, 2006 10:31 AM (KgcVp)
4
Well, SoWhat, how about so this: The Germans conducted tests of the surface flesh and muscle tissue provided to them by a Lebanese physician who had claimed that the darkened skin surface on recovered bodies was evidence of Israel's use of Chemical weapons. The tests were conducted under the supervision of an International body of pathology experts and scientists. There was NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that ANY FORM of chemical agent, INCLUDING WHITE PHOSPHORUS, was found in their extensive tests.
Of course, we all know that YOU and YOU ALONE are the forensic pathologist and expert, aren't you?
Loser!
Posted by: Retired Spy at September 14, 2006 11:09 AM (Xw2ki)
5
Retired spy,
You are wasting your time and effort arguing with SoWhat. If you look at his other post, he is somewhat immature and obviously has a liberal slant (meaning he will not be able to see truth and logic). Save your time and fingers.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 14, 2006 11:22 AM (6wTpy)
6
SoWhat - you owe me a new keyboard! I spit coffee all over mine laughing at your inane and obviously uninformed comments. What - did you just learn how to read?
Posted by: Specter at September 14, 2006 11:57 AM (ybfXM)
7
BTW sowhat - has Israel completely left Lebanon? Is the blockade lifted yet?
Posted by: Specter at September 14, 2006 11:58 AM (ybfXM)
8
Even Amnesty International seems to have learned a little from all of this. AI actually condemned Hizbollah for attacks on civilians during their unprovoked aggression against Israel.
Of course, Al-Reuters in reporting this press release from Amnesty had to slide in the bogus claim that most of of the "Lebanese" casualties were civilians--as if Hizbollah wore uniforms--but at least they reported the Amnesty International condemnation.
Posted by: iconoclast at September 14, 2006 12:10 PM (Jpc2l)
9
David, you are an asshat who can't see bush and your party doing anything wrong, so as far as I'm concern you are irrelevant.
Specter, if the persons who carried out these heinous acts are openly admitting to it(per link posted above)should we disbeleive them? BTW, Israel couldn't even stop Qatar Airways from flying into Lebanon during their blockade, they have since lifted the blockade. Don't blame me for not keeping up with current events.
Nope the Israelis have not all withdrawn, they're still special forces and intelligence agents crawling around.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 12:25 PM (D6PTH)
10
David, is your cousin still torturing cadets?
Please see, The End of the World As We know it... post
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 12:39 PM (D6PTH)
11
When liberals speak, just tell them "so what?". They can't help but trip right over "what".
Posted by: brian at September 14, 2006 12:46 PM (w9Azj)
12
Israel lost a large chunk of faith off me, who previously had only unreserved admiration and deep sympathies for its natural determination to defend itself amidst so sprawling number of Arabs and global Islamic fascists openly bent to "wipe it off the map."
Had Israel held its cherished military traditions, had it continued hunting illsome terrorists and destroying their lairs, had it reenacted the 70's tactical strategy at Entebbe -- Lebanon might become another Iraq or Afghanistan where the forces of reason, backed by reasonable
force of arms, are getting hammered down the natives to recognize the futility of harboring terrorists. Bin Laden may still breathe, but with so many lieutenants doing time in hell or Guantanamo, he's but gasping. On the other hand, the recent cease fire does immeasurable damage to Israel's own image while allowing Nasrallah and his ilk plenty of crow. I believe Israel should not stop, but retake the whole Lebanon and rinse it completely from hezbollah warts. And only then it can afford to retire and let so-called peacekeeping forces around.
Posted by: mad-muhaa at September 14, 2006 07:23 PM (A8jsf)
13
Mad
Israel lost credibility with me as well. Their reluctance to fully engage Lebanon/Hizbollah--is there really much of a difference?--could be the beginning of the end. Their inability to defeat the lying narrative of the Arabs yet another indication of incompetence. And their reluctance to target Syria--who promoted this war of agression against Israel--is another indication of failure of will.
By pulling back in Gaza and Lebanon, Israel gained the right to defend itself unreservedly. Cluster bombs and phosphorus included. It has not done that in either situation, which is a huge mistake. The world of leftists, racists, bigots, and anti-semites will never forgive Israel for not dying.
Posted by: iconoclast at September 14, 2006 07:57 PM (Jpc2l)
14
SoWhat,
So What? You used a single source - a print/online edition to prove your point. Retired Spy came back with the forensics report on the bodies of those supposedly burned. Now let's see - newspaper v. forensic evidence. Which one do I believe? You still owe me a keyboard.
Posted by: Specter at September 15, 2006 07:00 AM (ybfXM)
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September 13, 2006
Err America on the Ropes
And just who do they think they're kidding?
Air America Radio will announce a major restructuring on Friday, which is expected to include a bankruptcy filing, three independent sources have told ThinkProgress.
Air America could remain on the air under the deal, but significant personnel changes are already in the works. Sources say five Air America employees were laid off yesterday and were told there would be no severance without capital infusion or bankruptcy. Also, Air America has ended its relationship with host Jerry Springer.
The right wing is sure to seize on Air America's financial woes as a sign that progressive talk radio is unpopular. In fact, Air America succeeded at creating something that didn't exist: the progressive talk radio format. That format is now established and strong and will continue with or without Air America. Indeed, many of the country's most successful and widely-syndicated progressive talk hosts — Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller, for instance — aren't even associated with Air America.
While I'm sure Think Progress might even believe what they say is true, facts point us towards the opposite conclusion.
Progressive talk radio at least as voiced on Air America,
is unpopular; that is the reason Air America is going bankrupt. The math isn't very hard: very few people listen to them, advertisers know this and won't pay them enough to keep them on the air, and so Air America is in big trouble.
Trying to give them for credit for things that don't exist--"the progressive talk radio format," which is in no appreciable way different than any other talk radio format--is a particularly sad attempt to salvage something from nothing.
I wish Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller all the best with their progressive radio adventures, and wish them successful career. Liberals need something to listen to, even if they have to buy a satellite radio to tune in many markets. Apparently Shultz and Miller have something all the "big names" on Air America lacked.
Talent.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Now if they had clowns like Limbaugh or Hannity that would make it so much more entertaining.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 13, 2006 02:30 PM (D6PTH)
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"preemptively lash out against those who would remember future attacks before they've even come to pass." -CY
That one is a weiner!!
Posted by: Andy at September 13, 2006 03:58 PM (cYuQq)
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The free market has spoken; "All Bush-Bash, all the time!" doesn't sell.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 13, 2006 05:12 PM (fEnUg)
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Must have run out of little kids to rob.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 13, 2006 05:41 PM (6CeBd)
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Well SoWhat - I don't listen to Rush or Hannity. But I do know that millions do. Whose opinion is in the minority. Uhhhh.....that would be yours!
Posted by: Specter at September 14, 2006 06:06 AM (ybfXM)
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The liberal "us against them" theme has echoed down to us from generations past. It is a "breaking down without building up" philosophy, deeply distrustful of the republic we live in, the content a large part of the thoughtful market for radio commentary ignores. It just goes to show that even if you don't revere the voice of the market, you'd still be advised to ignore it at your peril.
Posted by: Elliot Essman at September 14, 2006 09:42 AM (Upym8)
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A Failure of Initiative
This is simply unbelievable:
Taliban terror leaders who had gathered for a funeral - and were secretly being watched by an eye-in-the-sky American drone - dodged assassination because U.S. rules of engagement bar attacks in cemeteries, according to a shocking report.
U.S. intelligence officers in Afghanistan are still fuming about the recent lost opportunity for an easy kill of Taliban honchos packed in tight formation for the burial, NBC News reported.
The unmanned airplane, circling undetected high overhead, fed a continuous satellite feed of the juicy target to officers on the ground.
"We were so excited. I came rushing in with the picture," one U.S. Army officer told NBC.
But that excitement quickly turned to gut-wrenching frustration because the rules of engagement on the ground in Afghanistan blocked the U.S. from mounting a missile or bomb strike in a cemetery, according to the report.
Pentagon officials declined comment and referred The Post to Central Command officers in Afghanistan, who did not respond to a request for comment or explanation.
We had a high concentration of enemy officers exposed with little or no cover, and did not fire upon them because they were in a
cemetary?
Was it like
this one in a battle in Najaf, Iraq, that was so well known they
made a video game out of it?
This is the single most mind-numbingly stupid "shoot/no shoot" determinations I have heard of in this entire war. This was not a situation where that was significant risk of there being collateral damage to nearby civilians. The only people present were Taliban leaders that we want dead, and those in the cemetery that were
already dead.
If this story is accurate and there are no mitigating circumstances we are unaware of, then we're looking at two levels of incompetence.
The higher level incompetence of placing cemeteries off limits in the rules of engagement was most likely the decision of senior military officers, perhaps with State Department input. Whoever made such a determination should be stripped of these duties. War is not to be fought politely, and the enemy should not be give a "timeout" from the war unless civilian lives are at risk.
On the direct tactical level, the officer directly in charge of this flight should have taken the initiative and made the determination that attacking such a concentration of Taliban leaders was more important to the success of the mission that was "going by the book."
A constant advantage for U.S. military forces throughout our nation's history has been the ability of individual small unit leaders to deviate from the battle plan when necessary to accomplish the mission on a fast-changing battlefield. Battle to battle, war to war, the decision was made to train our soldiers, from boot camp onward to seize the initiative to complete the mission.
That initiative was lost here.
The officer in charge of this flight certainly followed the rules, but he failed in his larger duty. The military's primary job is to protect the nation by killing its enemies. He unwilling to take the initiative needed to ignore an arbitrary decision, and enemy leaders walked away unscathed to plot death once more.
Update Footage of an estimated 190 massed Taliban from the Hellfire-armed Predator drone (via
Fox News):
Based upon how tightly they are grouped, the single drone's Hellfire missiles would have likely have terminated the terrorism careers of every single Talib in this photo.
This military is
investigating the leaking of the photo to the
Post (h/t
Michelle Malkin).
The U.S. military said Wednesday it is looking into the unauthorized release of a photo purportedly taken by an American drone aircraft showing scores of Taliban militants at a funeral in Afghanistan.
NBC News claimed U.S. Army officers wanted to attack the ceremony with missiles carried by the Predator drone, but were prevented under rules of battlefield engagement that bar attacks on cemeteries.
I have no problem with the investigation. A leak, even one that points out such obvious incompetence, is still a leak, no matter what the motive, and needs to be dealt with.
I do hope, however, that the Army spends as much time finding out why an absurd order not to fire upon massed terrorists simply becuase of their location in a cemetery was written. I'd also like them to investigate why that order was not quickly superceded by operational imperatives once the target was clearly identified for the large concentration of enemy forces that it was.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:19 PM
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As long as cemeteries aren't protected under the Geneva conventions, you really have to wonder what genius thought this limitation up...
Posted by: Allan at September 13, 2006 01:42 PM (39+B+)
2
Because if they made a mistake in inteligence (I know, it's sounds crazy but it can happen) and hit a funeral of civilians it would be bad.
Considering how many weddings have been wiped out this may not be as foolish a policy as it sounds. Hearts and minds gentlemen, still need them.
That's the problem with a remote control war; it's remote.
Posted by: salvage at September 13, 2006 02:22 PM (jQnuN)
3
I have two quotes from gueys smarter than I that are directly applicable:
"[W]e have reached a point at which the rules apply only to us, while our enemies are permitted unrestricted freedom." -- Ralph Peters, 10 July 2006
"People who try to be sensitive in a war have a tendency to die, and to take their nations with them." -- Steven Den Beste, 21 Sept 2002
(Cross-posted at Wizbang!)
Posted by: ExRat at September 13, 2006 02:43 PM (nmk+M)
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How do we know that they were ALL Taliban fighters, is it even possible that innocent civilians may've been among the mourners? We wouldn't want another wedding party massacre now, would we?
Posted by: SoWhat at September 13, 2006 03:05 PM (cYuQq)
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If even one of these tals lives long enough to be responsible for one US death, the clown who halted this operation will have a lot on his head.
Posted by: jay at September 13, 2006 04:32 PM (rn0NN)
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Note to Taliban Terror Leaders: You can come out of your caves now, the cemetaries are a safe base. Be sure to bring several civilians, preferably children, with you to use as shields. Feel free to shoot and kill as many United States Soldiers as you can while hiding behind your human shields in the cemetary. Your allies here in America, with hearts and minds fully engaged, will celebrate the deaths of any soldiers you kill and use them as examples as to why we need to bring all our troops home.
A leak is a leak, find it, plug it and prosecute it. But that is a cool picture.
Next find the politician(s)/diplomate(s)/lawyer(s)/commander(s) who decided that we can't attack a confirmed hositle force because they are in a cemetary and send them home to flip burgers at McDonalds. This is a war we're fighting and wars should be fought by serious people. (Note: this automatically diqualifies all elected politicians from making command decisions. Yes, even the President. His job is to give the military an objective, then get the hell out of the way and let them do their jobs.)
Another note to the Taliban: Our last picture was a little out of focus. Would you mind meeting back there again next tuesday for a reshoot?
Oh wait, they probably won't do that will they? After all the tag team duo of leaker and the media have just let them all know that we can identify them when they attend funerals. Thanks again for once again revealing United States Military capability to the enemy.
Finally, How was this not a win/win situation. They are all gathered together in one spot - we save on ammunition. They save on transportation costs for the funerals.
Posted by: David at September 13, 2006 05:09 PM (FzhYM)
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How do we know that they were ALL Taliban fighters, is it even possible that innocent civilians may've been among the mourners?
Harry Truman definitively dictated what the answer to this question should be.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 13, 2006 05:13 PM (6CeBd)
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There you have it.
CY doesn't support the tropps.
CY, I knew you'd come around.
Posted by: Robert at September 13, 2006 05:22 PM (VTtVl)
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When the services were over I hope they had the presence of mind to track a few of them back to their hiding places.
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at September 13, 2006 08:41 PM (DdRjH)
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I would like to find the name of the guy who said no, or who didn't have the drone on station for when the funeral broke up...
Posted by: Don Meaker at September 13, 2006 09:50 PM (hZT0l)
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The wedding party massacre story happened because the wedding parties were was a ploy by the terrorists to cover large numbers of young men coming over the border with large amounts of cash.
The wedding tactic was watched, and when the numbers increased (because the ploy was working) they figured it out, and so hit a few. The wedding parties didn't work, so then the terrorists compensated by doing something else.
Posted by: Don Meaker at September 13, 2006 09:54 PM (hZT0l)
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So, Lt. Gen. John Abizaid, Commanding General of Central Command, who is in charge of the Middle East, has established rules of engagement which prevented the U.S. Army from the easy July air attack on approximately 200 Taliban soldiers drawn up in ranks at a funeral in a cemetery in Afghanistan. Well let us reflect for a moment. The General is an American of Lebanese background who speaks Arabic and would seem perfect for the job. In line with the old tradition that if you fight America, we can appoint American Generals who speak your language, understand your culture, and will crush you! In John Abizaid’s case, this has not, to say the least, happened!
Consider for a moment, the same situation with General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower, an American of German extraction. In 1942, SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Reinhard “The Beast” Heydrich, head of the Sicherheitsdienst and acting “Protector” of Czechoslovakia, was assassinated by allied agents and, after the usual Nazi atrocities, the Germans subsequently held an elaborate funeral for the Obergrupppenfuhrer. Did General Eisenhower, out of concern for German sensibilities, order the great U.S. Army Air Corp not to attack German military funerals? Do pigs fly?
It is time for John Abizaid to be assigned to a command within his level of ability. Enough is enough! John Abizaid has clearly been promoted well beyond his level of competency. Not too shocking, as it has happened many times before, and will again. Gen. Abizaid may feel that things were simpler and more basic in the days of WW II. No General, I was there, and they were not!
Pat West
Toronto
Posted by: Pat at September 14, 2006 12:59 AM (0dOea)
13
This was Clinton's fault obviously! Why isn't he prosecuted for these criminal lapses in tracking down and killing terrorists? There should be a special prosecutor assigned to solve this problem!
WTF is the president thinking here?
Posted by: bob perdriau at September 14, 2006 02:04 AM (yRwm/)
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Pat you are an idiot,Gen. Eisenhower did not order the bombing of any military funeral. Sheesh.
Clearly the drone operator's superior could not be sure that everyone in the mourning party was a Taliban, so why take the risk of killing innocent civilians?
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 11:04 AM (D6PTH)
15
Anyone at a funeral with Taliban terrorists is, by definition, not innocent and cannot be used as a human shield.
Lay down with dogs.....
Posted by: iconoclast at September 14, 2006 12:18 PM (Jpc2l)
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With A Large Pinch of Salt
The ABC News blog The Blotter has a reputation for having good sources within the U.S. intelligence community, so when they take the time to write about known al Qaeda terrorist Adnan El' Shukrijumah not once, but twice in a two-week time span, it is something worth keeping on your radar.
The radar signal
got stronger when journalist Hamid Mir said that his contacts in al Qaeda indicate that Shukrijumah might be plotting to detonate a nuclear device in the United States during the Muslim holiday of Ramadan later this month.
Allahpundit notes that this is a probably a false alarm, and I think he is more than likely correct. That said, the first Blotter link above notes that "virtually every" FBI field office is hunting Shukrijumah, so he is deemed a credible threat, if not necessarily a present one.
I first read all the links above when I got home from work late last night, but wanted to sleep on it before commenting.
It seems unlikely to me that Shukrijumah or other al Qaeda operatives would be able to easily obtain a nuclear warhead, and even if they were able to obtain such a device, the chance of successfully smuggling it across an ocean to the United States seems exceedingly remote.
It is far more likely that toxic radioactive substances, however, could be smuggled in or stolen, and combined with homemade explosives (such as TATP, a terrorist favorite) to create a radiological "dirty bomb."
Such a weapon uses the blast effect of high explosives to spread radiation over a local area that would likely affect both the local blast area and locations downwind, perhaps encompassing several square miles in some degree of radiation. The probably destructive capability of a dirty bomb is not that much more significant than that of a conventional high explosive blast, but those in the area contaminated area would face radiation dangers in addition to normal blast effects. There would probably be a higher fatality and injury rate as a result, but nothing approaching the level of even the smallest tactical nuclear warhead.
The primary benefit of such a detonation to terrorists is the fear that will spread. If detonated in a densely populated urban area, the panic such a weapon could instill in the population could possibly cause casualties and disrupt life for a significant length of time, but the area can be decontaminated and returned to use.
The long-term political effects of deploying such a weapon are as yet known, but we can speculate. What will almost immediately occur is that the people of the United States will once again realize that the War on Terrorism does not occur just "over there." Terrorism should be thought of not only as an international issue but a local one as well, and images and stories of American civilians being killed and injured at home is likely to create a cry for the Legislative and Executive branches to take a far more aggressive role in combating terrorism both domestically and overseas.
If it was determined that such a weapon was smuggled into the country, or that those who detonated the weapon came across a border (particularly the Mexican border) to do so, then the politics of border security would radically change in a very short amount of time. I think that an immediate and total crackdown on illegal immigration would occur very quickly, and that Congress would be forced to implement a full border wall, with increased staffing and detection equipment, more lenient chase and capture guidelines for Border Patrol agents, and far harsher penalties for attempted illegal immigration. I do not think it likely that illegal immigrants already in America will be rounded up in massive sweeps, but the public could possibly force lawmakers to consider that possibility. There are simply too many variables in this equation to comment beyond that.
If such a strike were to occur, I think that the White House is almost certain to receive massive complaints from Congressional Conservatives (particularly in the House) because of current lax border security policies, and Democrats would seize upon the opportunity to indicate that the Administration is failing to be effective in the War on Terror. I think this is a double-edged sword, however, as Democrats have been far more lax in regards to border security and illegal immigration than even the White House, so it is unlikely to be a winning issue for them.
The overseas intelligence intercept program that the media and Democrats have tired to spin as "domestic spying" will finally be understood for what it really is, and will no longer be thought of as an encroachment on freedoms, but as the rational extension of intelligence gathering capabilities that it always has been.
Overseas, I think you would see an increased political and diplomatic effort to convince Pakistan to allow Coalition military forces to penetrate deep into the tribal areas of its western border region with Afghanistan so that al Qaeda and Taliban staging and training areas can be forcefully struck. Also in Afghanistan, I think you will see a much more concerted effort to eradicate the poppy crop, the Taliban's single most important funding source. Neither bodes well for al Qaeda's ally.
Next door in Iran, I think that a much more muscular diplomatic response to Iran's nuclear ambitions would be forced by the United States in the wake of a dirty bomb attack on America. Recent radiological destruction would make it impossible for us to allow Iran to continue down the road toward weapons development. Harsh sanctions and a blockade enforced by U.S. military assets would force Iranian leaders to either back down from their nuclear aims, or force them to engage us in a regional conflict in which their mostly conscripted military, primarily armed with obsolete weapons, could not hope to prevail.
If a blockade or conflict in the region with Iran is imminent, you might also expect forces to be built up in Iraq to guard against a cross-border attack by Iran that some intelligence sources say might occur. Once the Iranian threat de-escalates, it seems plausible that the additional Army and Marine units brought in to deal with the Iranian threat might be sent to Iraq to dismantle Shia militias that would suddenly be without their primary supporters, and to al Anbar to take on Sunni insurgents that we do not seem to presently have the manpower to pacify.
These sudden shifts in the region, if they occur, could put Syria in a very unstable position. I will not speculate as the whether or not his Baathist regime would fall without the support of Iran, but it would make Syrian support of terrorism a front-burner topic, perhaps forcing it to finally withdraw support of Islamic terror groups such as Hezbollah.
This is all extremely speculative, of course.
There is presently no way of knowing when a terror attack involving a radiological weapon could occur, nor if it will ever occur, and trying to predict what
may happen is admittedly roaming far into speculative territory on a very high, very thin wire.
But there are some things we know for certain.
We do know al Qaeda and similar terrorist organizations have tried to direct attacks on the U.S. mainland before and after 9/11, and to date, all of those other attacks have failed. We know they or other Islamic terrorists will try to attack again. We also know that at some point they are likely to be successful.
What will be our response when that day arrives?
That may largely depend on which political party happens to be in power when and if such an attack occurs.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Presents an interesting thought problem. I may be wrong but I believe that nuclear material carries a "signature" such that it can be traced back to its original source by the isotope configuration. That is unless it is medical material that is very short lived. If it could be traced, that would put our government in an ackward situation. We might actually have to hold the country of origin accountable. Although we did not hold the Saudi's accountable for their citizens killing ours.
The terrorist might actually like this as it would widen the conflict and move us closer to global war. A place were we are but no one will accept the fact.
I can't tell you how comfortable it makes me feel to know the FBI is looking for this guy. They don't seem to be able to find anyone!! If they find him I wonder if he will get a luxury trip to the US like the sex pervert did.
Posted by: David Caskey at September 13, 2006 01:20 PM (6wTpy)
Posted by: SoWhat at September 13, 2006 02:33 PM (D6PTH)
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nuclear material carries a "signature" such that it can be traced back to its original source by the isotope configuration.
Just use Americium-241. You can buy it at Home Depot in the form of smoke detectors.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 13, 2006 05:17 PM (6CeBd)
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Why are republicans pushing the idea of dropping the nuclear bomb? Is this an attempt to soften up the public to its possible use? We didn't drop the bomb on Vietnam, didn't drop the bomb on the USSR, didn't drop the bomb in Korea, so why now? Is it not obviuos that the US dropping a nuclear bomb on any country will make it the enemy of the entire world, do we feel safer yet?
Why do republicans hate America so much?
Posted by: SoWhat at September 14, 2006 11:16 AM (D6PTH)
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They Support the Troops
They just won't talk to them. Or make eye contact. Or listen.
But they support the troops.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I read the entire post and can't come up with the printable words to express my loathing towards that group. However, they do have the right to free speach, I just don't have to listen.
They definately do NOT support the troops.
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 13, 2006 11:33 AM (JSetw)
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Sure, they support the troops. Just not our troops.
Posted by: larry at September 15, 2006 12:37 PM (+Kwbl)
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Hmmm... trackback is choking, so here's a manual one.
Posted by: directorblue at September 16, 2006 05:05 PM (z1M8l)
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September 12, 2006
The End of the World As We Know It...
Mary Katherine Ham admits to watching The View.
She
was going to be on the panel after mine at
Carolina FreedomNet 2006, but now... I dunno.
It might be time to talk about finding a replacement.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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MKH contends that you were watching, as well as IMing her during the broadcast. Time to invoke plausible denialibility?
Posted by: MCPO Airdale at September 12, 2006 08:39 PM (3nKvy)
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Not set to TIVO is it CY?
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 13, 2006 04:47 AM (JSetw)
Posted by: seawitch at September 13, 2006 09:27 AM (VSJlt)
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Why would anyone who can read, write and particularly run a web page watch anything like the View? For that matter why doew anyone care for one minute what Rosie thinks on anything. Elvis was once asked about the Vietnam was an responded "I don't know man, I am just an entertainer". That was the smartest thing any person who is called a celebrity ever said. I also saw that Gerge Cloney is to speack at the UN, this world is nuts.
As to the torture. Torture is not being used on American citizens, so big deal. In fact we have rules governing its use with nation states and we are not at war with specfic nations, only terrorist and non-uniformed people. So big deal. I had a cousin who was at the Air Force Academy, he said that during the summer they would torture the cadets. The rule was that any went except drawing blood. The average time from start to confession was 24 hours. The Academy acknowledged that with simple methods they used everyone would break. So let them use the techniques. If the libs don't like it, they can succeed (if only the South could).
Posted by: David Caskey at September 13, 2006 11:05 AM (6wTpy)
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.."he said that during the summer they would torture the cadets"
And you believed him? Dumbness probably runs in the family.
The Crusades - Christians attempt to retake Jerusalenm, led to the death of thousands.
The Inquisition - Christians killing people who do not agree with their version of religion.
Northen Ireland Conflict - Protestant(Christians) fighting against Catholics (Christians) under the guise of nationalism.
There are radical fundamentalist in all major religions who willing kill in the name of their god.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 13, 2006 02:26 PM (D6PTH)
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Redefining Winning
According to Richard Cohen, the War on Terror is over, and Osama won:
I hear bin Laden laughing. I heard him all day on Sunday and Monday as the mass murder of Sept. 11, 2001, was memorialized at the Pentagon and in that field in Pennsylvania and, especially, here where the most people died and where countless cameras recorded it all for posterity and an abiding, everlasting, anger. He laughs, the madman does, whenever George Bush says, as he has over and over, that America is "winning this war on terror.'' Osama bin Laden knows better. He has already won.
It is not merely that bin Laden has not been captured or killed and that videotapes keep coming out of his hideout like taunts, it is rather that his initial strategy has borne fruit. It was always his intention to draw America into Afghanistan where, as had been done to the Soviets, they could be mauled by the fierce mujaheddin. He tried and failed when he blew up the USS Cole off Aden at 11:15 a.m. on Oct. 12, 2000, killing 17 sailors and crippling the ship. But he succeeded beyond his wildest expectations when the U.S. responded to the Sept. 11 attacks by invading Afghanistan and, in a beat, then going to war in Iraq. It remains mired in both countries to this day.
To Cohen I pose the question, "What price, victory?"
Al Qaeda has been driven from its training bases in Afghanistan, and can find no more states to openly provide it sanctuary. The Taliban that once supported bin Laden in Afghanistan have been driven from power, and when they emerge, reformed, to attempt to take back their country, they are killed by NATO forces
by the hundreds.
Al Qaeda's leaders and specialists, their tacticians and their weapons experts,
continue to fall prey to Coalition forces. Some are captured. Many are killed (more than 1,500 to date). More of al Qaeda's leadership circa 9/11 resides in Cuba or in the earth than lives in Afghanistan's frontier or Pakistan's tribal areas. Those that remain skitter from cave to cave knowing that this day may be the day a Hellfire-armed U.S. Air Force drone sends them to Allah, or more likely, some place much more warm and less inviting.
StrategyPage notes that there were eight state sponsors of terrorism on 9/12/01; now the regimes sponsoring terror in Afghanistan and Iraq have been deposed, and Libya, seeing the writing on the wall, has given up without a shot being fired.
I wish more such "victories" for al Qaeda.
If they continue, Islamic terrorism will cease through attrition.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Richard Cohen wrote some of the dumbest stuff I have read on the subject. Bin Ladin's genous plan sure worked out. Virtual training camps on the internet. I wonder how well that will work for them. Not well it seems, as the new al-Qaeda could not manage to get hand grenades over an 8 foot fence. Cohen, do you think Lee lured the yanks to Gettysburg?
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at September 12, 2006 04:25 PM (aROoZ)
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I miss spelled genius. Sorry!
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at September 12, 2006 04:27 PM (aROoZ)
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Videos from UBL? There's been no video with UBL since Oct 29, 2004 where he tried to impact the elections here in the US. Then the writer tries to claim that UBL drew the Soviets in Afganistan? (What does this guy smoke?) For the record it was the Soviets that went there on their own, they we not drawn into battle. UBL was just another fighter there, he later bought his way to prominance with his families money.
Back to the battles with the "fierce mujaheddin", on one of the right leaning blogs as recently as this week we were reminded of the sentiments of the "news" outlets, they discribed this action in bleak terms, where the truth is that within two months Kandahar fell. Yes there are Taliban remnants hiding in the hills and mountains, yet if we had rooted them out and destroyed them ruthlessly how would the left portray us then? For them there are always shots left for them to take, from behind their pulpits and keyboards but never from the field of battle where freedom is won or lost.
It's a shame that credibility is not a requirement before publication of drivel such as this.
Posted by: strange__guy at September 12, 2006 06:32 PM (d5eLr)
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Cohen needs to buy a vowel and get a clue.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 12, 2006 07:12 PM (WxRQS)
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Osama probably didn't excape the bombing in the mountains and has been dead for years but he still win's the war if the democrats are elected in 06-08. They will fold like a house of cards and we'll be right back where we started. Under threat of attack 24-7 with no protection. Only kill a few hundred Americans a month and we won't bother with you.
Posted by: Scrapiron at September 12, 2006 09:25 PM (fEnUg)
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Let's just call the future of the world for what it is:
All the moderate, westernized, peace-loving Muslims on this side. Ok, you can go now.
All the other radicalized, death-to-America-and-Israel, I'm-so-happy-to-see-dead-infidels-I'll-shoot-my-AK47-in-the-air-and-smile Muslims on the other. Now, now...bunch up a little bit closer...we need to fit you all in. Perfect. Say cheese!
*NUKE/BIG BOOM*. Problem solved.
It's really heading that way, you know - whether you like it or not.
Better to accept it now than enter the next hundred years dying the death of a thousand cuts.
Posted by: Atticus_NC at September 12, 2006 11:15 PM (jEwvR)
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These al-qaeda types are media hounds, so we have won if they can't pose with a lovely landscape back-drop that we can quickly identify. I'm sure alot of the newbies in their movement are doubting that Osama bin Laden and Co. are still alive. People blindly follow dictators that rev-up the crowd from balconies, not from grainy videos taken in basements.
Posted by: Tom TB at September 13, 2006 01:53 PM (fEnUg)
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Didn't bush said he will get Osama "Dead or Alive"? Is he still looking for Osama? There are Al Queda in Cuba? That's a new one.
Posted by: SoWhat at September 13, 2006 02:20 PM (cYuQq)
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Running Away Toward Genocide
Via Fox News:
Democrats are blasting President Bush for giving what they call a political prime-time speech on the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
In his address Monday from the Oval Office, Bush tied the anniversary to the War on Terror and the need to continue the war in Iraq.
"Whatever mistakes have been made in Iraq, the worst mistake would be to think that if we pulled out, the terrorists would leave us alone," Bush said. "They will not leave us alone. They will follow us. The safety of America depends on the outcome of the battle in the streets of Baghdad.
Democrats were quick to fire off statements declaring Bush's words partisan.
"The president should be ashamed of using a national day of mourning to commandeer the airwaves to give a speech that was designed not to unite the country and commemorate the fallen but to seek support for a war in Iraq that he has admitted had nothing to do with 9/11," Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., said in a statement. "There will be time to debate this president's policies in Iraq. September 11th is not that time."
While Bush's speech itself was
poorly delivered according to those who watched it, the quoted section of his speech above is absolutely accurate.
There have been many mistakes made in Iraq, just as there have been major mistakes made in nearly every war the United States has ever fought, from the Revolutionary War until today. But to give up in Iraq, where the United States has
never lost a major engagement, would be seen by the Arab world as a victory for Islamic terrorism.
Abruptly pulling out of Iraq would:
- increase the power and prestige of terrorist groups within the Arab world
- inspire despots to expand funding and military support for terrorist groups as an extension of their foreign policy
- lead to greater sectarian violence
- increase the likelihood of a Balkanized state where a full-scale civil war and mass genocide is more possible
- increase the possibility of a regional war, with Turkey and Iran both striking to crush the Kurdish north of the country
The current sectarian violence in Iraq is bloody enough without us relinquishing the country to be feasted upon by its neighbors and internal factions. If you think the "neo-con" war is expensive in terms of lives and treasure, explore the possibilities of the Democratic "peace."
Thousands are currently dying in Iraq each month in sectarian violence. The al Anbar province is in
dire straits. Many voices, particularly those on the left, are calling for the United States to retreat. The one thing these voices utterly refuse to acknowledge is the cost of the unconditional surrender they'd effect.
If we withdraw precipitously before Iraq is stabilized, we run the risk of twin genocides in concurrent civil and regional wars.
Sunni vs Shia
Led for decades by bloody Sunni Baathist regimes, the minority Sunnis have been the core of the insurgency, and still retain strong support among some Sunni civilians, particularly in the al Anbar province where they share some ideological roots and goals with al Qaeda in Iraq. The new Iraqi Army, like the old, is primarily composed of Shia soldiers, and if the United States pulls out before the country can be stabilized, there is much concern that the Shia may overrun their former tormentors, setting the scene for potential genocide.
Kurdistan Regional War
Even within the existing Iraqi government the Kurdish north of Iraq have been pushing strongly for a nearly autonomous region under their specific control. They have long dreamed of an independent
Kurdistan, encompassing northern Iraq, as well as significant territory in Turkey, Iran, and Syria (see
map). Kurds were promised an independent nation-state in the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres, but later wars and treaties kept that from ever coming to pass. Turkey and Iran, who are already engaged in sporadic
cross-border conflicts with Kurdish forces today, would likely not hesitate to invade Kurdish Iraq if they feel their own sovereignty may be threatened. The Kurds, known for thousands of years to be ferocious fighters (the word "Kurd" means "warrior" in Kurdish), would likely be able to turn the mountainous areas of Kurdistan to their advantage, with the distinct possibility of making Kurdish and Iranian invasions resemble the bloody Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s. The blood the Kurds would draw from the Iranians in the mountains would almost certainly be translated to massive civilian casualties in Kurdish cities dwarfing anything we've seen in the Iraq War so far.
Based upon these scenarios, the precipitous withdrawal called for in the liberal "peace plan" in Iraq has the potential for casualties ranging from the hundreds of thousands to well over a million. If the Leftist "victory" in Southeast Asia (1.7 million), and the abortive Russian efforts in Afghanistan (900,000) provides us with any sort of a useful yardstick to measure the potential cost of failure, the casualties to Iraq could range into the millions, with millions of more civilians being displaced.
And so we seem to have a choice:
We can commit to finding out precisely what we need to do to make Iraq a self-sustaining country with functioning economic, political, and security systems;
-OR-
We can cut and run—"redeploying" to other parts of the world as leading Democrats are calling for—and wash our hands of the country we created as it falls into internal and region wars that will kill or displace millions.
If we do the latter, history will not look upon our nation kindly... nor should it.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:44 PM
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where the United States has never lost a major engagement,
Gosh that sounds familiar... where the heck did America win every single battle yet still lost the war? I know it was against an enemy that posed no threat to the U.S., it was a divided land, practically a civil war… the politicians kept on lying to the public about lights at the end of the tunnel, corners being turned… they made some really cool movies out of it… ring any bells?
And mistakes were made that sounds oddly familiar as well.
Huh.
But here's the point that you can't quite seem to understand; the mistakes were predicted by people the Bush Administration and folks like you ignored.
Or screamed “Saddam Lover!” at.
So what do you call that? When someone tells you you’re about to make a mistake and you go and make it anyway? Do you think that people like that should remain in power?
Posted by: salvage at September 12, 2006 02:21 PM (xWitf)
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Only a fool ignores history, and by reading the comments, there is no shortage of fools who forget history. Viet Nam was lost because the U.S. under the brilliant leadership of LBJ chose to fight the war in the south. Had three Corps of U.S. Army and a Corps of Marines started at the DMZ and moved north, Viet Nam would have a capital named Saigon. Centuries ago a Chinese General wrote a book about the art of war. It is not about making nice with those who would kill you. What fools on the left fail to understand, if this is not just BDS, this enemy will fight us where ever we are. It is far better to destroy them in Iraq and Afghanistan than in the streets of Lorado. Read the Iraq Freedom resolution passed by the congress and signed by Clinton in 1998. Bush has done what Clinton said needed to be done. Does that make it all better now, salvage?
Posted by: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III at September 12, 2006 04:41 PM (aROoZ)
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Well Zelsdorf, why didn't Nixon correct those mistakes? Surely 3 Corps and a Corp of Marines were available to him after Johnson? As a matter of fact, I remember Nixon telling us voters before the 72 elections that he had a secret plan to win the war. How'd that come out, do you remember?
Posted by: NM at September 12, 2006 07:14 PM (JoaUu)
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Vietnam fell because the congress fecklessly decided to stop funding the south after the pullout. The VC/NVA were broken as of 1972.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 12, 2006 07:44 PM (WxRQS)
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Of course that millions were subsequently murdered in the region by the communists is conveniently ignored by the left.
It must have felt good to have their hands drenched in the blood of millions since they replay the same strategy and use all the same rhetoric today.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at September 12, 2006 07:47 PM (WxRQS)
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The politicians also overrode the Generals on the ground telling them how to win the war, THAT was a big help. (Redeploy to our bases somewhere else? Yea, that'll help us win).
Posted by: Retired Navy at September 13, 2006 04:56 AM (nFSnk)
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What is happening here today is the same as Vietnam, the left whines and cries about the poor Arabs the poor Iraqis being tortured, or our soldiers are murderers. Just like the 60's... Oh wait! Reed, Pelosi, Kerry, Feingold, they are products of the 60's.. Well NM why Nixon didn't correct it was because it was to late. Public opinion, not about the war but, what was happening here in the States, the protests, riots, and other events. And a democratic held congress. People were just tired of hearing about all the B.S. that was happening every day. Now we are here, the only difference is LBJ is not President. GW is!! And we were attacked!!!! You on the KOOK fringe always seem to forget that. A democrat got us in Vietnam then failed to support the troops. They politicized it then they abandoned it... Bush knows that, he's going to stick it out, he's not going to abandon the Iraqis nor our troops. Even though the weak minded moonbats want to. Our troops want to WIN and come home.... Nobody wants to be a loser and if we lose this with the help of our fellow American lefties it will be open season on anything RED, White and Blue.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at September 13, 2006 07:45 AM (nFSnk)
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I'm waiting till someone can define what a "stabalized" Iraq is. No car bombings for a month? Electricity on 24/7? Walk around Bagdad without armor and a death wish?
Setting a date seem premature without a plan for why any date makes sense. However, it does appear that the Republicans are unwilling to engage in what the plan to stabalize Iraq is. maybe that's because the answer would be very damaging politically (I'm guessing at least 10 years). Stay the course seems to be more about putting off that debate and trying to maintain status quo as opposed to improving the situation and getting our troops out of there.
Posted by: matt a at September 13, 2006 09:11 AM (GvAmg)
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Gosh there's some much wrong here but I'll just hit the obvious:
>And we were attacked!!!! You on the KOOK fringe always seem to forget that.
But not by Iraq!!!! You on the KOOK fringe always seem to forget that.
>A democrat got us in Vietnam then failed to support the troops.
Eisenhower was a Democrat?
Posted by: salvage at September 13, 2006 10:00 AM (xWitf)
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matt a, are you willing to let the military bomb Iran? That is the only way to stop the violence in Iraq. When you have a dominate Shia south that is supported by radical Iranian elements. You have a wildly radical shiite muhlla Alsadr that is anti-west, anti-Sunni, anti-Kurd. Alsadr needs to be removed. The radical antagonistic elements in the hierarchy of the Iranian leadership needs to be removed. Then it will be safe for you to go visit.
Posted by: Faithful Patriot at September 13, 2006 10:04 AM (JSetw)
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Vietnam was lost because the Vietnamese saw the US as another round of Colonialists. The North Vietnamese were going to die before giving up the ground, and had the U.S pressed on there may have been occupation but it would have been a perpertual struggle to maintain law and order. The same holds true for Iraq. There are some thugs and Baathists in the insurgency to be sure, but the main reason that the struggle is hopeless is that we haven't won the hearts and minds of the Arabs, and really won't as long as we pronounce their names wrong and refer to their religion as a religion of violence. Couple that with the U.S. support of Israel, and you have a population that basically hates the U.S. government. Add in the fact that we kept Saddam in power for much of his reign, and that when we toppled his regime the lights when out and still aren't turned on in many places, and the economy is worse now than during the sanctions, and how could you blame the average Iraqi from turning a blind aye (was originally 'eye' but post wouldn't be allowed) to the insurgency.
So do we withdraw. There is no way we could leave that country in the state that it is in. It will take a lot more troops, deaths, money and time before we can leave that nation.
Posted by: Andrew at September 13, 2006 10:45 AM (UwK+n)
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Patriot - Its not about visiting Iraq, its about stablizing Iraq, and how you hear "can't leave until the job is done!", "stay the course", "we stand down when they stand up" and sooner or later you got to realize there is no criteria for ever leaving. GWB already said its going to be some other President's job to figure that out.
However you may have hit on the downside of a Republican victory in November. If Republicans do control both sides of Congress, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us attack Iran. The White House is already making noises about it. Out of the 2 remaining "axis of evil" members, Iran is preferrable to North Korea in that there are a bunch of "reasons" for invading(can't implement sanctions, source of terrorists, supporting insurgents in Iraq, etc), our troops are already in the region (Iraq and Afganistan) with fortified bases surrounded by a population that we don't really care gets in the way and Iran doesn't already have nukes. Then take into account that most of Iran's millitary is surplus Russian. From the WH POV there isn't a downside. GWB has got 2 years left and a rubber-stamp congress...
Posted by: matt a at September 13, 2006 02:47 PM (GvAmg)
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