Confederate Yankee
October 06, 2006
Carolina Freedomnet 2006
We might not all have
soccer player legs, but I still think there are plenty of reasons to come see us at
Carolina Freedomnet 2006 tomorrow if you can.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:01 PM
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1
Awww, just teasin', Bob!
Posted by: Mary Katharine at October 06, 2006 03:13 PM (Js9XT)
2
Great to meet ya, Bob!!!
Posted by: Bruce (GayPatriot) at October 07, 2006 11:17 AM (nd509)
3
Would have loved to, but, didn't know it was happening. Already had tix for ECU/Virgina and Devils/Canes. Bummer.
Posted by: William Teach at October 08, 2006 12:46 PM (doAuV)
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Ground Zero Cross Finds New Home
Via yesterday's Washington Times:
A cross-shaped steel beam that survived the 2001 World Trade Center terrorist attack to become a symbol of hope amid the ruins was moved Thursday from ground zero to a nearby church, accompanied by a procession of victims' families, clergy and construction workers.
The 2-ton, 20-foot-high cross was placed on a flatbed truck for the three-block trip to its new home, St. Peter's Church, which had served as a sanctuary for rescue workers searching for human remains from the Sept. 11 attack.
"This piece of steel meant more to many people than any piece of steel ever," said Richard Sheirer, head of the city Office of Emergency Management five years ago. "It goes beyond any religion."
Ironworkers sang "God Bless America" as hundreds of people walked behind the cross to its temporary home facing ground zero outside the 18th-century church, the city's oldest Roman Catholic parish.
"This cross is a sign of consolation and inspiration to workers who served at ground zero for the 10 months of recovery," said the Rev. Brian Jordan, a Franciscan priest who had blessed the T-beam days after it was pulled from the wreckage. "Some interpret it as a cross. Others see it as an artifact that has historical and architectural importance, a reminder that is also a sign of closure."
The Ground Zero Cross will one day likely be part of the Formal Ground Zero Memorial or the September 11 Museum.
Johann Christoph Arnold wrote a touching article about the hope inspired by the Ground Zero Cross on
Catholic Planet.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:48 AM
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Censored Again By ABC News
In the spirit of giving it that "old college try" once more, I once again attempted to ask Brian Ross of the ABC News blog "The Blotter" two questions I first attempted to pose days ago in the comments section of a Blotter blog post.
The two questions were quite simple, and something to the effect of:
- When did Ross become aware of the existence of the instant messages between Congressman Foley and House pages?
- Were these instant messages given to Ross and the Staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary?
I say these were "something to the effect" of the question I asked, because ABC's Blotter comments are moderated, and the moderator did not allow these questions to be posted.
I made another attempt this even to ask those questions in the comments of latest Blotter Foleygate entry, the post titled
Three More Former Pages Accuse Foley of Online Sexual Approaches.
The post, about three more Congressional pages coming forward from the classes of 1998, 2000 and 2002 to claim they were "sexually approached" over the Internet by Foley, seemed another perfectly logical chance to ask Brian Ross and his investigative news team at ABC News the questions about the origins of the explicit instant messages that broke the story wide open.
And so I opened the
comments section of this Blotter blog post and wrote the following, typo and all:
I've attempted to ask two very simply questions of Brian Ross before, but somehow the comment I submitted disappeared (surely a technical glitch) and so I'll try to submit these questions once more:
(1) When did Brian Ross become aware of the existence of the instant messages?
(2) Were these instant messages given to Ross and the staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary?
At the time I wrote my comment, the last posted comment showing was one made by Kris Flaneur at 11:13:47 PM (see screencap)
After I clicked "post" I was redirected to the Blotter "glitch page," where obvious problems in the form submission are parsed for errors and kicked back to the reader for correction. You've doubtlessly come across similar only forms issues before. You simple correct your mistake and move on. My goof was trying to too quickly type in my blog's URL in the appropriate field, and I missed a "p" in "http://" addressing. ABC News needs to get their web team to better integrate this page into their site by the way; the site design continuity completely falls apart here, as you can see in the second screen cap:
In any event, I fixed the URL and successfully submitted my questions to Brian Ross and the Blotter staff for the second time. Note above that comments are only posted to the site after they have been reviewed by a human moderator and approved.
We'll see soon enough if these questions go down the memory hole once more, prompting
more and
more bloggers to ask the question: "What did Brain Ross know, and when did he know it?" If Ross & Co. drop the questions once more, I'll have to start thinking I'm onto something.
As of 9:00 AM, 30 more coments have been added, all after I submitted my comment. ABC News has censored my questions to Brian Ross,
again.
What did you know, Brain, when, and from whom did you get these IMs?
Update": Michelle Malkin
gets results by taking my questions directly to Jeffrey W. Schneider of ABC News.
Mr. Schneider answers my first question about when ABC News became aware of the instant messages, but he didn't really give me the answers I was looking for to the second question, perhaps because I didn't ask it correctly.
I asked:
Were these instant messages given to Ross and the Staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary?
He gave an honest response that ABC News obtained the IMs from "former pages who contacted us after reading that first story."
What I should have asked, and what I actually meant to ask, was whether or not the pages who gave the IMs to ABC News were the same pages that participated in the instant messaging sessions, or if the IMs were turned over to ABC News by other Congressional pages who were not participants in the IMs.
I've asked Mr. Schneider if he would be kind enough to clarify this small but important distinction, and await his response.
Update: Mr. Schneider was kind enough to respond:
As we have reported, the IMs came to us from other pages.
Thus, we can clarify that the Congressional pages who were targeted by disgraced former Congressman Mark Foley were preyed upon twice; once by Foley, and for a second time by their fellow pages, who were the ones who turned the IMs over to ABC News.
Others may have caught this already, but it's news to me that this is confirmed. It seems that Drudge's
story yesterday is indeed correct, at least as far as that the saved instant messages obviously got into the wrong hands.
But which page or pages sent the instant messages to ABC News?
MacsMind posts a series of unfortunate events that points to one possible suspect. If his case is sound, this is going to get much uglier before it gets better.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:00 AM
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1
How is this in any way relevant to the Repuplican leaderership protect an internet predator in Congress?
Just curious. I recall from a while back how you thought it was worse to take pictures of bombs in civilian houses than to drop them on civilian houses...so I'm wondering how your questions are in any way relevant to the topic at hand.
Thanks!
Posted by: wah at October 06, 2006 08:26 AM (cknoY)
2
Wah, the relevance seems, well, obvious. If other folk, like Democrats, knew the particulars of the Internet predation, and sat on it for maximum political advantage, it would indicate that the Democrats, or someone, gives not a flying handshake for the safety of children. It is arguable that Hastert should have done more, but he had no details of the content. Whoever sat on the emails and IMs had full detail. Doing nothing with that knowledge is criminal, morally if not legally.
Thanks!
Posted by: Scott at October 06, 2006 08:38 AM (q7DL4)
3
'Protect a child predator in congress'? Do you think Hastert would vote to make Foley the chairman of a committee just like Pelosi voted to make Gary 'Child Rapist' Stubbs chairman of the committee that he was on? No, wait. They threw Foley out..How long did the Child Rapist Stubbs stay in congress and how long the Pelosi keep voting for him. I want an investigation, maybe by Freeh, no wait Pelosi has blocked that as well. Wonder what she is covering up? Um.....
Posted by: James Brewer at October 06, 2006 08:50 AM (yUNOu)
4
FACT: GOP staff, working for Republican Speaker Denny Hastert, warned the page class of 2001-2002 to stay away from Foley - five years ago.
FACT: Former chief of staff to GOP Rep. Tom Reynolds (R-NY), Kirk Fordham, says he warned Hastert's chief of staff of Foley's behavior three years ago. Whether or not you believe Fordham, his testimony is consistent with the other facts showing that the Republicans knew about Foley's behavior long before last week.
FACT: Both Reps. John Boehner, the Republican House Majority Leader, and Tom Reynolds both say they told Dennis Hastert personally about the Foley issue months ago. Hastert says Boehner is lying. So one of the two most powerful Republicans in the House is lying about an investigation into a child sex predator. That deserves a separate investigation right there.
FACT: Hastert's staff was informed of the Foley emails a year ago, but Hastert would like us to believe his staff simply never told him that a member of Congress, a member of his leadership team, was under investigation for preying sexually on young children - children who Hastert was responsible for.
Posted by: neil at October 06, 2006 09:02 AM (xZvO0)
5
Fact: Foley never rape anyone.
Fact: Nancy Pelosi voted for a known Child Rapist to be chairman of a congressional committee.
Should those getting money from the DCCC send it back because it has been tainted to the inabler of a known chid rapist?
Posted by: James Brewer at October 06, 2006 09:05 AM (yUNOu)
6
Wah,
An errent bomb landing off the mark is definately bad, and an unfortunate part of war. To knowingly place a kid next to the bomb to get a better or more graphic picture was one of the dumbest things i've seen a photographer do, just wrong.
When a sexual predator is caught, removed from his office, and under investigation to see how far the details go, if one of the details was to have a group know about his mis deeds for months/years and not report it so there could be a bigger bang next to an election (purely political instead of looking out for the welfare of the child/young adult) it is again just wrong. Plain and simple.
Posted by: Retired Navy at October 06, 2006 09:16 AM (JYeBJ)
7
Uuuhh CY, Brian Ross has said repeatedly that he received the IMs within 24 hours of posting the initial 'overly friendly' email on the Blotter.
I know you want to divert the focus by attacking the messenger, but at least pay attention will ya?
Posted by: Ed at October 06, 2006 09:26 AM (yfKhZ)
8
And now I see that Michelle Malkin has the answers to both your questions:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006063.htm
Posted by: Ed at October 06, 2006 09:30 AM (yfKhZ)
9
I wonder if you can sneak the questions in at the end of a comment praising the guy's excellent work. I'm gonna try it.
Posted by: Kevin at October 06, 2006 09:49 AM (i2YG7)
10
I went with this:
This Foley character is a horrible human being. Kudos to ABC for exposing this creep. It's reporting like this that ABC should be most proud of.
I'm still not clear on which leaders knew about Foley's preying on kids. Can ABC write a timeline? All politicians who knew about this and remained silent should be given the boot!
Also, when did Mr. Ross become aware of the existence of the instant messages between Congressman Foley and House pages? And were these instant messages given to Mr. Ross and the Staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary?
Think it will sneak by?
Posted by: Kevin at October 06, 2006 09:55 AM (i2YG7)
11
The people that provided the IMs to Ross were not the victims, so who where they? How many months/years where they sitting on the messages?
The truly sad part, why do some of you not care?
Posted by: Matt at October 06, 2006 10:00 AM (yEK0T)
12
>Gary 'Child Rapist' Stubbs
I can't believe people keep on talking this BS about Stubbs. Can't you just check wikipedia article?
1) Studds was in no way a rapist. He had consensual sex with 17-years page. That was in 1973, and was brought to light in 1983. Foley so far is not proved to be a rapist, neither is he yet proven to be techically criminal. That's not really a point.
2) All this BS about "Republicans deal with the same things differently" is just sick. That same "page scandal" of 1983 had two people involved, one Republican, one Democrat, both engaging in exaclty the same thing, sex with a 17-year old pages (the only difference is in the Studd's incident happening earlier). Both of them were censured, both of them run for re-election. Crane failed, Studds succeded. There's no difference at all in the way Republicans and Democrats dealed with that situation.
Why didn't Crane resign? How dared he?
It was Foley's own choice to resign, this probably had to do with what _he_ knows about his conduct. There's a big difference between consensual sex ten years ago and continual grooming of the whole page program, which seems to be the case.
The fact that, say, Clinton didn't resign had something to do with the importance of his work. Given the fact that Foley's life work seems to be protecting exploited children, it was quite obvious that staying in the House was just absurd for him. It could mean nothing but more humiliation for and one seat totally lost. So the fact that Foley resigned gives no grounds for bragging about "high morals". His resignation wasn't gracious, BTW. Nor was the finger-pointing that GOP tops engaged into, nor the Hastert's incoherent and self-contradicting ramblings.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 10:18 AM (mS6dz)
13
Michelle Malkin received email ...
From Jeffrey W. Schneider of ABC News:
We became aware of the IMs only after we reported the first blotter item on the emails between Foley and a former page last Thursday, September 28.
Which depends on the definitions of "We" and "aware". Ross may have been informed there was more to the story beyond the emails if he would provide the opening. In which case that statement would be parse accurate yet evasive. No "We" no "IMs", instead just "Ross" and "more to the story".
Certainly not disproving a planned attack using "evidence" generated by a prank and shared for amusement until exploited by political operatives favorable to Democrats.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 10:21 AM (S+qVM)
14
Differences Studds vs Crane vs Foley ...
Democrats reelected Studds. Republicans tossed Crane, Foley was asked to resign by Republican leadership.
Nobody asked for Tip O'Neil to resign for not preventing sex between congressmen and pages away from home under House supervision.
Hastert has been asked to resign for not preventing private citizens (ex pages) in their own home engaging in dirty chat with a congressman.
Pretty obvious.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 10:28 AM (S+qVM)
15
Foxnews also had these emails. Bill O'Reilly flatly states " Fox had these emails early on" So what did they do about it?
Posted by: KMF at October 06, 2006 10:36 AM (e5kwr)
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Boris,
The Studds/Crane page scandals were uncovered, not covered up, by the investigation ordered by Tip O'Neill after there were anonymous allegations of involvement with pages. O'Neill was praised for his handling of the matter. That's why nobody asked him to resign.
Competence vs incompetence:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/03/AR2006100301109.html
Posted by: Ed at October 06, 2006 10:53 AM (yfKhZ)
17
>Democrats reelected Studds. Republicans tossed Crane,
Well, that's voters that tossed Crane. This has nothing to say about the party's policy. That is just a regular thing for incumbents not to be reelected. It's obvious that any such scandal lowers the chances, and in Crane's case it was critical, but that's not a reason to draw far-fetched conclusions about "moral superiority".
>Foley was asked to resign by Republican leadership.
1) Hastert said both that he asked Foley that he did _and_ that he didn't have a chance to. He can't be right in both cases, so he's obviously a liar, and that's not a good quality for a leader.
2) I don't think that Democrats would mind Foley staying. There's just no chance that he could be dangerous to kids in given situation, and having Foley on board would mean that GOP's ship would sink 100%.
It's just a given fact that consensual sex with a legal guy (willing to appear on press conference) that happened 10 years ago is very different in its impact from a number of freaky IMs. None would probably send anyone in jail (the law that _would_ send Foley in jail is dated 2005). But there's no more grace in asking Foley to resign than in refusing to shoot yourself in the head.
>Nobody asked for Tip O'Neil
Tip O'Neil wasn't a speaker when Studds incident happened (1973), so I can't understand why you bring him in.
It's mainly Republicans asking Hastert to resign, Dems don't really mind him staying (it's just more chances for the boat to sink), they merely ask for the full investigation. Given the clumsy way GOP leaders behaved _after_ Foley resigned, it really looks like there _was_ a cover-up or a gross incompetence.
All this talk about GOP being a party of peophile-appeasers is sure dirty, but no more so than the BS about "dhimmocrats", "terrorist-appeasers", "cut-and-runners" etc.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 11:13 AM (mS6dz)
18
Hold on one second. A Republican congressman is caught having explicit conversations with minors. The highest echelons of Republican leadership knew about it.
And the best you can come up with is, "well, the Democrats are no better"?
Way to go, party of personal responsibility.
Posted by: Jeremy at October 06, 2006 11:21 AM (7vvhO)
19
once again Bloggers (at least good ones) are transparent and the MSM is not.
Posted by: The Ugly American at October 06, 2006 11:29 AM (1aFJM)
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The Stubbs sex was 17 year old was not consensual. He drugged the 17 year old with something in his drink. At the time there was no laws against date rape, which was what Stubbie did...and Pelosi knew,yes Jeremy, knew, that Stubbie was a Child Rapist and she voted for him. What do you think about her Jeremy?
Posted by: James Brewer at October 06, 2006 11:35 AM (yUNOu)
21
Writing "Democrats reelected Studds" it should have been obvious that the Democrats referred to were voters. That was the point. Democrat voters are not as concerned with "sexual morality".
The point about Tip was that his leadership allowed the sexual contact to occurr under his watch. Hastert has no business policeing what private citizens (ex pages) are chatting with congressmen about. So the question is not that Tip FOUND OUT WHAT WAS HAPPENENING RIGHT UNDER HIS NOSE (BFD) it's that Hastert's investigation came up dead ended because there wasn't evidence to proceed.
If your point is that all "competent" investigations immediately uncover the whole truth, then you're welcome to it. My point is that comparing what Tip and Hastert failed to prevent, Hastert wins, Tip loses.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 11:43 AM (S+qVM)
22
What do you think about her Jeremy?
Pelosi? I don't think much of her. Despite your approach to the matter, not all of us see this as a partisan issue. IOW, just because I criticize Foley and his party's actions doesn't mean I support Democratic... anything.
I just think it's interesting that if a Republican makes a mistake that outrages the public, the first and ongoing reaction is to somehow tie it to Democrats. As if that changes anything! Sounds like an exercise in misdirection to me.
So what's your point? That Republicans and Democrats are equally immoral? For Christ's sake, Americans already KNOW that. You can calm down and take a breather already.
Posted by: Jeremy at October 06, 2006 11:49 AM (7vvhO)
23
FACT: GOP staff, working for Republican Speaker Denny Hastert, warned the page class of 2001-2002 to stay away from Foley - five years ago.
Actually, that "fact" was rebutted by the aide on whom the story was based:
...another page, who asked not to be named told The Palm Beach Post, "The program in no official capacity warned us about it," and he said that Loraditch had posted an explanation for his comments to ABC on the college social network, Facebook.com.
Loraditch's Facebook.com statement said: "I have received several heated responses from my fellow pages about media involvement in the current situation. I want to respond with a few points and thoughts.
"Firstly, as to the ABC "Warned" story, while I may have inadvertently used the word, "warned," in communication, I can assure you it was not intended. The fact of the matter is in an informal situation a supervisor mentioned that Foley was a bit odd or flaky and did not connote by tone or otherwise that he should be avoided.
Clear? I encourage the commenter to compare his "warned the page class of 2001-2002 to stay away from Foley" with "did not connote by tone or otherwise that he should be avoided".
Brian Ross hyped his story - gee.
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2006/10/abc_news_versus.html
Posted by: Tom Maguire at October 06, 2006 12:16 PM (SAx/p)
24
Foley was asked to resign by Republican leadership.
Not ture. He resigned before they got to it...despite House leadership knowing about it for years.
Bringing up a story from before most of the current pages were born is a joke defense, not to mention the "child date rape" allegation by comrade Boris in this thread.
I just find this whole story quite illuminating about who is so ridiculously partisan that instead of admitted their own party puts politics over responsiblity (which is evident from the fact that Reynolds knew of this behavior and still pushed Foley to run again) and who actually has some sort of ethical standards they hold their representatives accountable for.
Nikolay's post above covers everything else.
Keep on spinning though, if that's your bag. The problem for ya'll, however, is that the spinning has turned into digging. The question now is how long it will take the (R)'s to realize that.
Oh, and this story has also exposed GOPTV (a.k.a Fox "News") for the propagandists many of us have long theorized them to be.
Posted by: wah at October 06, 2006 02:31 PM (GOFVL)
25
Also, it should be noted that the tite of this post is now utterly and completely false.
It should probably be updated...if whoever runs this site has the slightest bit of journalistic integrity.
Posted by: wah at October 06, 2006 02:34 PM (GOFVL)
26
The title stays, not for the least reason that it is still accurate. The ABC News blog "The Blotter" did in fact censor my comments asking these questions not once, but twice. That essential fact has not changed.
It was only after Michelle Malkin put me in touch with the senior vice president for communications that I got an answer.
Not that "wah" will have the integrity to admit he is wrong, or course.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 06, 2006 02:55 PM (g5Nba)
27
I see...so...despite ANSWERING your accusatory questions, they are still "censoring" you by not posting questions that have already been answered prominently on their page?
So...you're mad at them for not muddying the water further? Is that the long and short of it?
There's a certain concept in various disciplines called a "signal to noise" ratio. The idea is to keep useful information prominent, and useless information to a minimum. Your questions are noise, and it's really not "censoring" to keep already answered questions from clogging up the works.
BTW, you "censored" ABC's response by leaving out this part.As for responding to reader's questions, we have received tens of thousands of comments on these stories. We would like to respond to every question, but as I'm sure you can appreciate, that is not always possible.Why is that your already answered questions need front page billing, but other, actually pertinent and unanswered questions should be put on the back-burner?
You were wrong to attack the messenger, and your questions were unfounded (and answered). Admit that (in the title bar) and I'll be happy to let you keep playing the victim.
Posted by: wah at October 06, 2006 03:13 PM (GOFVL)
28
>Writing "Democrats reelected Studds" it should have
>been obvious that the Democrats referred to were
>voters. That was the point. Democrat voters are not
>as concerned with "sexual morality".
First, that's their business. There could be many things said about people who managed to re-elect Bush after his much graver offences. But that's just democracy.
Second, even this thing about "voters morality" doesn't have enough ground. The only thing common between Crane and Studds is that they commited the same misdeed. The fact that Crane was not re-elected doesn't prove anything about voters' morality, just as the fact of some black congressman being or not being re-elected would not say that voters are "pro-affirmative action" or "racist". It's mainly about him strong or not strong on issues.
>The point about Tip was that his leadership
>allowed the sexual contact to occurr under his
>watch.
I still don't understand why you can't check your facts. O'Neill was the speaker from 1977. Studds had relations with page in 1973. Do you think it makes sense to make Tip responsible for things that happened 4 years before his watch started?
>If your point is that all "competent"
>investigations immediately uncover the whole
>truth, then you're welcome to it.
No, my point is that, given the the number of contradictions and self-contradictions in what GOP's leaders said, it just looks like the investigation is needed.
If some of the Republicans feel that Hastert has to resign -- that's their right to say so. In this situation most of the sensible Democrats just enjoy the show while Republicans throw dirt at each other. There's quite a bit of Shadenfreude in Dem's feelings, but given the demonization and ridiculous accusations they've suffered from Reps, you can't really blame them.
How the fact that instead of stating sensible position on this subject Republican leaders started a blame-game and did quite a lot of ridiculous things is the Democrat's fault, is beyond me.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 03:20 PM (mS6dz)
29
The name of the speaker is somewhat irrelevant to the point. Studds date raped a page and other than Studds himself coming in for a "censure" reprimand, there was no call for the Democrat speaker of the House to take responsibility or resign.
Democrat voters don't seem to mind sleazy behavior, Kennedy, Studds, Frank, Clinton. You can claim it's just issues, but then so what, others say it's that morality is a bigger "issue" with Republicans. The evidence is the evidence and denial aint a river in Eqypt.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 04:28 PM (S+qVM)
30
>The name of the speaker is somewhat irrelevant to the point.
How do you mean? The Studd story was brought to light in 1983. You're talking about punishing a speaker, when the one who _could_ theoretically be made responsible for this had already resigned 6 years earlier. Would you put a dead man in jail, would you?
>Studds date raped a page
Do you have any responsible sources for this? It looks like an urban myth. The sources I've read only talk about him having sex with that page.
>there was no call for the Democrat speaker of the
>House to take responsibility or resign.
What the Democrat party did to Studds was _exactly_ what the Republican party did to Crane, who commited _exactly_ the same offence. Do you really want to say that the Republican party's conduct has _nothing_ to do with Republican values???
All this stuff about "sleazy Kennedy" is just irellevant. The parties are different and "morality" means different things to them. So what. You may think that Bush and Nixon are more "moral" than Kennedy and Clinton, but that's just your opinion.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 05:09 PM (mS6dz)
31
punishing a speaker, when the one who _could_ theoretically be made responsible for this had already resigned 6 years earlier
So what you're saying is that there was no Democrat speaker of the House when Studds date raped the page? Or that because they were unaware of it, like Hastert was unaware, they bear no responsibility.
Still seems to me that letting that kind of activity occur between congressmen and pages under your care at the time, as opposed to policing chat between private citizens (ex pages) in their own home and the elected representive of a district, is completely higher level of responsibility.
My point is not that the Democrat speaker of the house should have been punished for lax oversight, but that applying some new ridiculous standard of responsibility to Hastert is ridiculously ridiculous. Want to supply some evidence that policing sex chat between private citizens (ex pages) in their own home and the elected representive of another district has ever been a legitimate concern for a full scale investigation? The sexual aspect of the case and the risk of unfair damage to reputation would incline some people to be cautious about openly investigating flimsy suspicion based on witheld evidence claimed to be neither criminal nor sexual.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 05:37 PM (S+qVM)
32
>when Studds date raped the page?
I asked for reliable sources.
>they bear no responsibility.
There are people that want Hastert to resign. The speaker "responsible" for Studds incident had already resigned when the story broke, so he could not resign. You can't make the man resign who's already resigned, just as you can't kill a dead man.
All this has nothing to do with the fact that all that talk about "double standards" in Studds case is total BS, because standards were exactly the same for Democrats and Republicans at that time.
The standards have now changed with time. Would you say that because you could be racist 50 ago, it's OK to be racist now?
>Hastert is ridiculously ridiculous.
The thing is about covering up or being irresponsible. The fact Hastert said he's innocent doesn't make him so. He obviously lied numerous times in the past week.
>policing sex chat between private citizens (ex pages)
OK, now you seem to know the whole story, and you seem to be not only sure that Hastert has done nothing wrong, but that Foley's totaly innocent as well (like, because Drudge broke this or that story). Well, that's your opinion.
The only thing I wanted to say: stop yelling about Studds, there are no "double standards" to be found there. And there nothing to back this rape allegations.
Like, I've _heard_ that 9/11 was an inside job, and that Bush is the biggest terrorist of them all, and that bin Laden is on his payroll. That makes just as much sense as your allegations.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 06:07 PM (mS6dz)
33
FACT:...
FACT: Nancy Pelosi is up to her eyeballs in this now.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 06, 2006 06:34 PM (WARV6)
34
The speaker "responsible" for Studds incident had already resigned when the story broke
Since I haven't called on anybody to resign whatever point you think you're making is pointless. When the story broke is not relevent to whatever responsibility he might have had for allowing sexual activity to occur between congressmen and pages under his care as opposed to policing chat between private citizens (ex pages) in their own home. Said chat not claimed to be "innocent" or "ethical" just private between an adult congressman and a party not under the care of the speaker of the House.
My opinion, Hastert is less responsible for that than the Studds speaker.
BTW if I ever need help in the construction of straw dummies I will certainly be contacting you by IM.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 06:48 PM (S+qVM)
35
So, no proof for this "date rape" story.
>My opinion, Hastert is less responsible for that than the Studds speaker.
Man, the thing that Hastert is certainly responsible for is many lies he's produced on this story.
They even have this legend claiming "as soon as we've learned about explicit messages, we demanded that Foley resign", when he in fact resigned _three hours_ before those messages were released by ABC.
Hastert has obviously proven that he's full of shit on this, telling contradicting stories every other day. The idea that he in no way, by default, could be responsible for the harrasment of pages (like it's "a private matter"; if somebody has a chance to stop the harrasment, it is his duty to do this; no difference -- pages/ex-pages) is absurd, and you can't find out if he "did the right thing" or not without the investigation.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 06, 2006 09:26 PM (mS6dz)
36
Hastert has obviously proven that he's full of shit on this, telling contradicting stories every other day.
Sorta like that "date rape" thing huh. Perception is not (always) reality. My perception of the Studds example is "date rape". Bet my perception is more accurate than yours.
Posted by: boris at October 06, 2006 10:20 PM (S+qVM)
37
Nikolay
The page Studds had sex with said he was a reluctant when he was in Studd's apartment. Studds then went on a vacation to Portugal with the page and had sex with him every two to three days. Again the page said he wished he didn't. Studds plied the page with alcohol when the page was underage to drink. Studds was 36 having sex with a 17-year old subordinant.
As far as we know, Foley's only offense so far was e-mailing (or IM'ing) while gay. And plying pages with ice cream. Studds could have advised Foley: "liquor is quicker."
The party that thinks it is bad to intercept al Qaeda phone calls thinks Hastert and Republican leadership should be all over a gay for "overly friendly" communications with former pages? The same party that supports gay Scout Masters, gay teachers, and gay Big Brothers thinks Republican leaders should know better than to let a gay politician communicate electronically with a former (over 18 years old) page?
It is already clear that at least one Democrat knew of the worst IM's over a year ago, and sat on the information until time for an October Surprise. Scoring political points was more important than preventing Foley scoring with a page.
That Democrat, the one who waited a year to spring the surprise, is the one who deserves the chop, not Hastert.
Posted by: Major Mike at October 07, 2006 12:59 AM (YWPmF)
38
The difference between the Studds situation and the Foley situation is that the fact that Studds had sex with a 17 year old page only came to light after the fact. I have not seen any evidence that there were any warnings in advance to the House leadership. Studds was censured, but he was re-elected by his district. For whatever reason, the voters in his district decided to overlook what he did. The Democratic House leadership had no say in that. It also seems to me that House committee and sub-committee chairmanships used to be awarded strictly by seniority and the vote was a mere formality. So the criticism that Studds was selected by the democrats as a committee chair should be viewed from that perspective. They decided not to change the existing rules just to deprive Studds of the chairmanship he was otherwise entitled to. They did make changes in the page program to reduce the chance that a similar incident could occur again.
Hastert is being criticized for not thoroughly investigating what was going on when he received warnings that should have alerted him to the fact that Foley might be having inappropriate contact with pages. By not investigating, he failed to protect the pages.
The first report of this that I saw included only the "overly friendly" e-mails asking for a picture, etc. My reaction at that time was that it seemed kind of creepy and to suspect that there might be something more to it. I was not at all surprised more explicit IM's turned up. Apparently, others, including several news outlets, saw those e-mails and decided there wasn't enough to them to run a story. It was only after ABC decided to run the story about the e-mails that the explicit IM's turned up. However, given that the House leadership has a responsibility to protect the pages who have been sent to Washington and placed in their care, I think those "overly friendly" e-mails should have been enough notice to Hastert to do more of an investigation than was done.
Also, I have not seen any evidence that anyone connected with the Democratic Party had these e-mails and sat on them for political advantage. I have seen reports that an outfit called CREW had the "overly friendly" e-mails and submitted them to the FBI in July, not exactly sitting on them. There were also reports that some guy who gets his kicks outing closeted gay politicians and staffers was reporting that Foley was hitting on younger men. That is not the same as preying on pages who are 16-17. I recognize that right wingers would desperately like to pin this on the Democrats. It looks like this story may be enough to tip the House and even the Senate to Democratic control. However, there is no there there, at least not yet.
Posted by: wayne at October 07, 2006 04:26 AM (5ujg9)
39
One element to this whole issue is a phenomena...
Things happen so fast with the Internet... blog pages, transferring messages with email etc...
Now we have to piece together what happened after the fact, very difficult, i.e. apparently the IM's only came to the public from "other" pages, AFTER the big story broke? or did they.
The speed at which things can "happen" with the Internet is NOT at the same pace the mainstream medida and politicians attack each other.
Foley's career is over in 1 event in less than 48 hours. But many things have happened behind that.
emails, posts, data transfers.
Most of America will not pay attention and find out that IM's may have been kept for "politcal" reasons.
The mainstream media will always follow the frenzy, nevermind finding the factual details first.
Posted by: amaxware at October 07, 2006 06:28 AM (WGgus)
40
Our party is better than your party.
Some here have questioned the relevance of bring in Studds, Clinton to recent discussion...
Well can the Dems on this blog HONESTLY say that all of the attention by media, Pelosi, Dean, etc..
has been on the pages? -or- Foley is a creep, Foley is a Republican, Republicans are creeps?
If Pelosi is so concerned, why not allow the wide net investigation of the pages?
Any Dems here even question the timing of 1-3 year old emails coming out 30 days out of an election?
What us Cons think that stinks: Using Foley's situation to attack ALL Republicans.
And before you repsond with "you guys did that to Clinton" Here's my response.
Clinton wagged that finger at all of us "I did not have sexual relations with that woman", then he lied under oath.
Different from Foley being asked to resign IMMEDIATELY by his party leadership.
In your defense I don't think the dem party helped Clinton cover up at the time, BUT your party sure defends him now.
Posted by: amaxware at October 07, 2006 06:40 AM (WGgus)
41
Most of America will not pay attention and find out that IM's may have been kept for "politcal" reasons.
No. Most Americans don't CARE about the stupid, superficial sniping between Reps and Dems. And if you think Americans aren't sophisticated enough to realize there are political overtones to this, you're wrong. Most Americans simply don't care about the politics because it's irrelevant to their values, which is what this is about (unless your game is oneupmanship for a major party).
What us Cons think that stinks: Using Foley's situation to attack ALL Republicans.
Finally, some honesty.
I happen to believe that there is cause to attack the GOP en masse, but you still make a very good point. You should be making THAT argument instead of making this about Democratic perversions. That just looks like misdirection and it looks dishonest, overly partisan, and blustery.
Posted by: Jeremy at October 07, 2006 08:21 AM (EMNAc)
42
Sorta like that "date rape" thing huh. Perception is not (always) reality. My perception of the Studds example is "date rape". Bet my perception is more accurate than yours.
Well, the fact that Hastert is lying is not "perception", it is objective reality. If you say one thing one day, and another thing that directly contradicts the first another day, then you've lied at least once. If you say that some thing happened, which doesn't just fit well-established timeline, then you've lied. This doesn't prove that you're guilty of other, serious things, but it gives a reason for investegation.
>The party that thinks it is bad to intercept al
>Qaeda phone
Well, that's not true. The thing was about breaking the law, not protecting the terrorists. Let's say, imagine that somebody establishes the lynch law in some state, like, "hang all the drug-dealers". Do you think it would be fair to say that if you oppose this, than you're "against punishing the criminals"?
>calls thinks Hastert and Republican leadership
>should be all over a gay for "overly friendly"
>communications with former pages?
Not "all over", but to go beyond "- Foley, are you doing the right thing? - Yes, I am. - Good".
>It is already clear that at least one Democrat
>knew of the worst IM's over a year ago
Are you sure it's clear? I've seen something like that on the blogs constructing wildest conspiracies (leading directly to Pelosi, of course), but it seems that the only proof for that is that someone of the "outing" crew says he had _both_ e-mails to Lousiana page and his reaction to them. I.e., the last item on ABC's blotter. That some people mix this with IMs means that they are living in the conspiracy dream.
>Different from Foley being asked to resign
>IMMEDIATELY by his party leadership.
Well, that's one of the examples of what's the problem. The leadership couldn't ask Foley to immediately resign, because he had already resigned three hours before those IMs were made public, which is, according to their legend, the first time they've learned about those "explicit IMs". Why would they lie on such trivial thing is another question.
>BUT your party sure defends him now
Well, there's many people saying that Foley was a victim of those pages.
Posted by: Nikolay at October 07, 2006 08:36 AM (mS6dz)
43
But Shimkus and Hastert didn't take the logical next steps. The communications that Shimkus and Hastert knew about were serious enough to ask Foley to cease contact with the former page. But the Republicans didn't pursue the matter any further and didn't inform the Democratic member of the House Page Board about the matter. That lack of action is indefensible.
Posted by: David at October 07, 2006 01:24 PM (LTLyZ)
44
This blog's wingnuts are even weirder than those at JimRob's FReeper site...if that's possible.
Posted by: Yoss at October 07, 2006 04:04 PM (4exif)
45
For Jeremy:
Here is a further thread on the argument that we Cons are irked(some insensed) that Foley must be some black mark on the Republican party. Let's look at "typical" Democrat voters. After Gary Studds was caught and had to be censured i.e. woould not resign, he was re-elected.
After Bill Clinton was caught , would not resign..
I'll bet there would be millions that would vote for him.
Yet Republicans will toss you out of the party in second. But none would be re-elected anyway.
I'd love to see the typical Dem voter get less hypocritcal.
Posted by: amaxware at October 07, 2006 05:34 PM (WGgus)
46
For David:
I agree with you in part that it appears the action is indefensible. But all of the facts aren't in yet are they? And what does that show, bad judgement?
I'd say yes, bad judgement.
But the first set of emails did prompt Hastert to tell Foley to knock it off. But for arguments sake,
I'd concede it was not the best action. Again though,
once the second set of IM's come in, crap hits the fan, he was tossed out of the Rep party.
Can you name an instance when Dems have done same?
Posted by: amaxware at October 07, 2006 05:41 PM (WGgus)
47
What kills me about the Dems defense here is that there was nothing to "investigate" from the "over friendly" emails. What do you do - every time a congresscritter asks an ex-page for a picture investigate it?
For those of you claiming Hastert lied - let's look a little more closely. First off - the claim "Hastert said one thing one day and another the next." OK. So did Fordham. He said that he was "shocked" to hear the allegations and had never known. Next thing he said he warned the Leadership three years earlier. One of those things was a lie. Which one? And both Hastert and Palmer say that Fordham is lying. So which do we believe? Don't just assume one is lying based on their statements. Investigate who is.
As for Pelosi - it was reported by Morris that a reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune had told him that a "senior democrat" had the IMs a year before. We still haven't seen who, but I'm anxiously awaiting the results.
And the other thing is - what is the deal with the IMs? They were not turned over by the pages involved - who were of age and private citizens at the time. So who had them? This was reportedly done using AIM - but from that time period AIM did not have an automatic logging function (as of 2004's release it still did not - I think it is version 5.5.32). To save a chat session you had to manually save it using the "Save" function and it was saved to a rtf format file. No header information was saved with it. Just the text. So - given that we have heard that the thing was a prank - who can prove it different? Ross - who now has 3 more anonymous accusers garnered via the ABC tip-line (online and anonymous)? Where is their evidence?
And all that is beyond the point of what should the Leadership have "investigated". If you start investigating innocuous emails where does it end? This is a non-event. Foley was scum - but did nothing illegal. He resigned. Good riddance and issue should be closed. Done deal. But the fact is that the Dems decided to release this 30 days before the election in an effort to bolster their chances. They did not do this to protect the pages. How ridiculous and self-serving is that?
Posted by: Specter at October 08, 2006 11:45 AM (ybfXM)
48
Dear apologists for the GOP:
1) This is a scandal not because of what Foley did. It's a scandal because the House leadership, be they staffer's or members, appear to have known and not taken action. The Studds case is not relevant. It is however being used to try to muddy the waters for the weak minded because it involves pages and sex. He was found out and censured. If a majority of voters in his district saw fit to re-elect him, obviously they weren't that bothered by it. As with Clinton, that's really what so infuriates the hard Right. Believe it or not, most people in this country find the biblical world view damn scary. And we don't need or want the GOP to save us. Judge not lest thou be judged. And both personal and collective hypocrisy lie at the core of the Foley flap.
2) When you are in power you get to claim credit for accomplishments. You also get blamed for what goes wrong. Together, this means you are accoutable and held responsible. The GOP has worked tirelessly to construct the myth that despite controlling the executive and legislative branches for nearly six years they are the helpless victims of attacks from the Democrats coordinating with their sympathizers in the mainstream media. Utter bullshit dittoheads! When you're in power the media's going to monitor and play beck seat driver with your every decision because the exercise of power is damn newsworthy. It doesn't matter what party is in power. Either would have every decision scrutinized from head to toe (remember how the press piled on "Hillarycare, Whitewater, and Monicagate despite their alleged left wing bias). In contrast, the party out of power gets a pass in comparative terms because by virtue of their being out of power they're in the shadows, accountable and responsible for nothing other than their words and votes which almost always fail to carry the day. And that's especially true since comity died and hyper-polarizarion set in, greatly reducing the political status of the minority party . So, if the GOP lacks the spine to govern anymore, as their constant whining about the media suggests, maybe it would be good for America if they no longer do come January. Divided government is the institutional cure for the over-zealous abuses of both the left and right. We sure could have used it during the LBJ years, and the similar look-the-other way oversight of this borrow and spend executive leads rational people to yearn for the founders' cure.
Sign me: A stalwart member of the party of Goldwater and Reagan who calls those in power today the real RINOs.
Posted by: Reality at October 10, 2006 12:46 PM (66gFz)
49
Dear apologists for the GOP:
1) This is a scandal not because of what Foley did. It's a scandal because the House leadership, be they staffer's or members, appear to have known and not taken action. The Studds case is not relevant. It is however being used to try to muddy the waters for the weak minded because it involves pages and sex. He was found out and censured. If a majority of voters in his district saw fit to re-elect him, obviously they weren't that bothered by it. As with Clinton, that's really what so infuriates the hard Right. Believe it or not, most people in this country find the biblical world view damn scary. And we don't need or want the GOP to save us. Judge not lest thou be judged. And both personal and collective hypocrisy lie at the core of the Foley flap.
2) When you are in power you get to claim credit for accomplishments. You also get blamed for what goes wrong. Together, this means you are accoutable and held responsible. The GOP has worked tirelessly to construct the myth that despite controlling the executive and legislative branches for nearly six years they are the helpless victims of attacks from the Democrats coordinating with their sympathizers in the mainstream media. Utter bullshit dittoheads! When you're in power the media's going to monitor and play beck seat driver with your every decision because the exercise of power is damn newsworthy. It doesn't matter what party is in power. Either would have every decision scrutinized from head to toe (remember how the press piled on "Hillarycare, Whitewater, and Monicagate despite their alleged left wing bias). In contrast, the party out of power gets a pass in comparative terms because by virtue of their being out of power they're in the shadows, accountable and responsible for nothing other than their words and votes which almost always fail to carry the day. And that's especially true since comity died and hyper-polarizarion set in, greatly reducing the political status of the minority party . So, if the GOP lacks the spine to govern anymore, as their constant whining about the media suggests, maybe it would be good for America if they no longer do come January. Divided government is the institutional cure for the over-zealous abuses of both the left and right. We sure could have used it during the LBJ years, and the similar look-the-other way oversight of this borrow and spend executive leads rational people to yearn for the founders' cure.
Sign me: A stalwart member of the party of Goldwater and Reagan who calls those in power today the real RINOs.
Posted by: Furlong at October 10, 2006 12:47 PM (66gFz)
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Chemical Fire Forces NC Town's Evacuation
Didn't get too much sleep last night. I was glued to the television, trying to guess how bad a chemical fire in a neighboring town was going to get and whether or not we'd
need to evacuate:
Shifting winds forced Apex officials to expand an evacuation area early Friday to protect residents from a chemical gas plume that continued to spread from an industrial fire that has raged since late Thursday.
Town Manager Bruce Radford said a leak at the EQ North Carolina plant on Investment Boulevard sent several large plumes of chlorine gas into the air around 9 p.m. Thursday. A large fire broke out at the plant afterward, sending flames more than 100 feet into the night sky and setting off multiple explosions.
EQ is a licensed hazardous-waste facility that serves businesses
Apex and Wake County officials declared a state of emergency early Friday and evacuated about 16,000 people -- half of Apex -- within hours.
The fire started shortly after a chlorine gas leak was detected. As of now, the fire is still burning, and firefighters have rightly decided it would be safer to let it burn itself out. The sun is coming up and the winds going to shift, possibly forcing more evacuations.
EQ, the company that blew up, had closed and the last employee had left by 7:00 PM. The chlorine gas leak was detected around 9:00 PM and the fire came shortly afterward.
It is too early to determine a cause.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
06:23 AM
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Posted by: da at May 30, 2010 04:23 AM (NX08U)
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October 05, 2006
Hastert Kills GOP? Nope.
Methinks I smell a dirty diaper:
House Republican candidates will suffer massive losses if House Speaker Dennis Hastert remains speaker until Election Day, according to internal polling data from a prominent GOP pollster, FOX News has learned.
"The data suggests Americans have bailed on the speaker," a Republican source briefed on the polling data told FOX News. "And the difference could be between a 20-seat loss and 50-seat loss."
Most GOP lawmakers have stood by Hastert, pending a full airing of the facts in his handling of the Mark Foley affair, in which the former Florida representative was caught exchanging salacious messages with teen pages in Congress. The new polling data, however, suggests that many voters already have made up their minds.
I'd be very curious to know who this pollster is, and what allegiances he may or may not have to any factions within the Republican Party, for the simple reason that this poll flies in the face of common sense, and reeks of Inside the Beltway hysteria.
People are going to walk into their polling pace and cast votes for the candidates on
their ballots.
Have you ever gone to the ballot box and thought, "you know, Congressman "X" really screwed up. Even though he isn't from my district, I'm going to vote for someone with a radically different viewpoint than my own to teach him a lesson, even if I get screwed in the process."
What, you don't think like that? I don't think many other folks do, either.
Unless they live in his district, people don't get to vote for or against Denny Hastert, and they aren't going to radically shift their voting of their candidates representing their interests to spite themselves.
Allah
may be right and Hastert very well resign tomorrow, but if he doesn't resign, the world will not end. The Republican Party won't lose by 50 seats, and it won't lose by 20 seats. It won't lose at all.
My prediction: If Hastert stays, the Republicans keep control of the House by six seats. Why?
A party with something—even an imperfect something—always beats a party of nothing, and that is something ever voter knows in his gut that they haven't created a poll to measure.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:13 PM
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Lose the election, lose the war, not prepared to let that happen. Our brave troops deserve better than Conyers cutting off funds.
Posted by: tb at October 05, 2006 09:38 PM (7evkT)
2
Allah works with Malkin and Malkin is pulling one of her homophobic rants. Just wanting Hastert out isn't going to make it so. She may think she has that much power, but she doesn't.
Hastert has done nothing to resign over. I'm not even sure Foley did anything he should have resigned over since everything was between consenting adults.
I was calling this a shits and giggles bit from the beginning with the IMs. No one participates in 52 IMs of the type these are and can call himself a victim. And the minute one of them decided to hit SAVE, it became a conspiracy to commit blackmail, IMHO. Those IMs were saved for a reason. These very bright, politically astute young men knew a good thing when they saw it. And Foley's alcohol problems and his inability to be openly gay played right into their manipulating hands. It is called having control and they were in control. I'd like to know how a college junior gets the job of Assistant Campaign Manager on a gubernatorial compaign half a continent away? Who is his political Sugar Daddy?
Posted by: Sara (Squiggler) at October 05, 2006 09:40 PM (FwPlP)
3
Since I can't get trackback to work, here is my post where I point out that an awful lot of voters don't know enough about the candidates or the candidate's positions on the issues to vote FOR one candidate or another. They don't bother because they use the (R) or the (D) as short cuts, as indicative of what a candidate stands for or against... and if this is so, the Republicans are going to lose big time.
Posted by: steve sturm at October 05, 2006 10:01 PM (XBWtm)
4
Steve, I'm so confident that you are wrong and Bob is right that I will bet you lunch ($5) that Repubs don't "lose big time" as you say. Put your money where your mouth is. You can pay me by PayPal when you lose the bet. Voters have made up their minds long ago in these hyperpartisan times. And one gay weirdo is not going to make a bit of difference in November.
Put up or shut up.
Posted by: Jeff B. at October 05, 2006 10:35 PM (o9/Mz)
5
Confederate Yankee, October 3:
It's time we place Foleygate in its proper context as a sideshow and continue to press both political parties in America to deal with the very real and mortal threats facing other nations and our own.
Too many lives hang in the balance to do otherwise.
Confederate Yankee, October 5:
"FOLEY! FOLEY! FOLEY!"
Posted by: Captain Howdy at October 05, 2006 11:14 PM (LHK5X)
6
I agree. I've been making a similar argument. I would also like to add that I'm bored with the story at this point. I switched radio stations every time the subject came up. I bet others are too. I never heard of Foley before this story. He's a perv but he's gone. I'm done.
I'm amused at his kitchen sink approach to defense-- "I'm a gay drunk who was molested by a Catholic priest." Puh-leese...
I also like the fact that the Dems are arguing that Foley's a gay man so people should have known he's a perv. So, I guess the ACLU will be withdrawing all of their Boy Scouts' litigation now.
Posted by: BlackRedneck at October 06, 2006 01:27 AM (d5Wy8)
7
The media and the far left are driving this to be much more of a story than it should be, and so you roll with the punches.
Dude, show some leadership. You're Confederate Motherfucking Yankee! Don't let the media lead you around by your Prince Albert -- get out there and stir some shit up!
Posted by: Jeeves at October 06, 2006 02:30 AM (LHK5X)
8
Jeff B: sorry, but my betting on one of my negative predictions has been proven to be a sure-fire way of making sure that prediction comes true.. and, as I really don't want it to come true, I'll pass.
Posted by: steve sturm at October 06, 2006 07:51 AM (bZSI1)
9
I don't know. This whole affair reeks of Democratic sleazeball tactics: the IM text the didn't die, the fake blog outing pervs, etc. Pelosi et al stating that because there is one sick Repub that Congress would work better with 535 Dems. Right.
This tactic may have worked if the Dems sprung it 3 days before the election. Now there is still time for this thing to blow up in the Dems faces. After all, if we find undeniable Dem fingerprints (we'll just have to wait and see), wouldn't you imagine that would drive angry Repubs to the polls?
Posted by: nopundit at October 06, 2006 09:55 AM (Q8tyr)
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Foley Pranked/ Ross Exposed?
It looks like I was at least halfway on target when I attempted to ask the staff of the ABC News blog The Blotter when Brian Ross became aware of the Foley instant messages and if the came directly from the Congressional pages involved or from a third party intermediary.
If Matt Drudge is right, we've got a partial answer to the
second question:
According to two people close to former congressional page Jordan Edmund, the now famous lurid AOL Instant Message exchanges that led to the resignation of Mark Foley were part of an online prank that by mistake got into the hands of enemy political operatives, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal.
According to one Oklahoma source who knows the former page very well, Edmund, a conservative Republican, goaded an unwitting Foley to type embarrassing comments that were then shared with a small group of young Hill politicos. The prank went awry when the saved IM sessions got into the hands of political operatives favorable to Democrats.
The primary source, an ally of Edmund, adamantly proclaims that the former page is not a homosexual. The prank scenario was confirmed by a second associate of Edmund. Both are fearful that their political careers will be affected if they are publicly brought into the matter.
The prank scenario only applies to the Edmund IM sessions and does not necessarily apply to any other exchanges between the former congressman and others.
The news come on the heels that Edmund has hired former Timothy McVeigh attorney, Stephen Jones.
This of course does not change the fact that Foley is an admitted predator, nor does it having any bearing on instant messages by other pages, nor does it make any apparent impact on the fact that Foley was able to get away with this for as long as he did. On Capitol Hill, we still don't know "who knew what, when" and if anyone else failed in their duties in protecting Congressional pages, and if so, if their failure would warrant resignation. That's what the
ethics investigation is for. Until we have a better understand of what is going on in this very fluid situation, I think it's best to call off the call for heads.
I am however, brought back to my original question that I submitted to the ABC News blog comments section that disappeared (no doubt due to a technical glitch, similar to the one that exposed the page's screen name).
Brian Ross: When did you first become aware of these instant messages between House pages and Mark Foley, and
who was that third party intermediary?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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yeah good post. I've had a similar take over at RightLinx for the past couple days.
here
and here.
Posted by: McCain at October 05, 2006 05:22 PM (jV5tw)
2
This might just have been the most brilliant Rove scheme ever. Exposing the intolerence of the fifth-column left.
So much for left-wing tolerance.
At the same time, this in no way affects Foley's GOP replacement.
Posted by: Tood at October 05, 2006 06:30 PM (IJedl)
3
The Dems are rapidly losing a chance to gain on this. They could have easily cinched a previosuly safe Republican seat by trashing Foley and campaigning hard in his district against him.
Instead, they started screeching for everyone to resign before the facts came out and now it appears they could care less about children and page predators as long as they get political power.
This will end up blowing up in their face and they could end up still losing the Foley seat.
Posted by: Faith+1 at October 05, 2006 06:37 PM (N2nlb)
4
Did the intermediary tell abc news that the IM's were from a minor?
Did the intermediary have the hill's 'gop-aide's permission to report him as a whistleblower?
(gay guy..whistleblower...a little funny)
Foley can actually now sue abc news-at a time when he was under intense politcal scrutiny, abc falsely reported a conversation he had with an adult, telling readers it was a minor.
Does Brian Williams want to own up to his mistake, or keep his dripping going without thought about his source or legal culpability?
Abc screws up once, maybe, but if they are printing more stuff to get burned by...
The news division cringes.
Posted by: lance at October 05, 2006 06:41 PM (6RCC4)
5
Why write "make an impact on" rather than "affect"?
Posted by: useless pedant at October 05, 2006 06:41 PM (UQtmm)
6
I meant to say Brian Ross.
Brian Williams is the guy who was in the superdome, covering the situation as babies were being raped. or so he was told and reported.
no similarites whatsoever...
Posted by: lance at October 05, 2006 06:43 PM (6RCC4)
7
Did Brian Ross get permission from Edmund to print his IMs? I am certain that Foley did not give his permission. Apparently, Edmund was 18 when some of the IMs happened. If Edmund did not consent to publishing wouldn't that create a huge civil liability for invasion of privacy? Seems like either he or his parents would need to consent. Stephen Jones may be a nightmare to ABC/Disney.
Posted by: truth is a weapon at October 05, 2006 06:47 PM (/834J)
8
Would not surprise me if this was a continuing plot by ABC; After the "Path to 9/11" deal, this "false" reporting might bite the Democrats HARD....
Posted by: Robin at October 05, 2006 08:30 PM (va+mN)
9
Wasn't Brian Ross the reporter who last summer kept saying that Dennie Hastert was being investigated by the FBI? Why did he think that if it was not about this mess with the IM's.
Posted by: Karen at October 05, 2006 10:10 PM (Et410)
10
Edmund has hired a lawyer so someone is about to make him a rich man, and he is and was a man, not the poor little kiddie we were led to believe.
Tomorrow well see if the democrats defend the X teacher in Florida, now working for the Florida state democratic party. X because he used the same tactics as Foley, only on 14 and 15 year old girls. Aee Michele Malkins site for the story on the X teacher.
Posted by: Scrapiron at October 06, 2006 12:10 AM (fEnUg)
11
Scrap,
It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. But, Edmunds hired a lawyer that is famous for criminal defense, not civil litigation. It could be that the guy does both. If not, or if he really specializes in crim def, I wonder why Edmunds hired him? Another little twist to the story.
Posted by: Specter at October 06, 2006 06:31 AM (ybfXM)
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...Not As They Do
Sometimes I simply pity the sad, bile-filled world occupied by extremists on both ends of the political spectrum, those that seem to believe "the ends justify the means" in any and all occasions.
Such is the case with the two conservative bloggers that "outed" the former Congressional page that exchanged instant messages with disgraced Republican Congressman Mark Foley. Just as disgusting are those on the opposite end of the political spectrum that feign outrage over this act when they almost certainly would have done the same if the situation was reversed.
A prime example of this duality is Judd at the far left blog Think Progress.
Judd and his fellow extremists on the far left have now
"attacked "right wing" blogger Roger L. Simon for linking to the story outing the Congressional page on his personal site and on the Pajamas Media portal (Note: I am also a Pajamas Media affiliated blogger), and "right wing" blogger Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit.com for linking to the Simon story.
It must be confusing for Simon--a Greenwich Village-loving former
Civil Rights worker, novelist and screenwriter--and Reynolds--a libertarian who once stated he desired a world with "legally married gay couples with assault weapons in their closets"--to be labeled as representative of the "right wing" as Judd would make them out to be, but theri position relative to him only serves notice to just how far out on the extreme left Judd resides.
I personally disapprove of linking to the sites that outed the former page, but Judd was quite dishonest in how he attacked Simon, as while Simon linked the post, it wasn't his post's major focus:
Only the Greek playwright's manic disposition could correctly characterize the times in which we live when the semi-sex life of an obscure congressman leads to the downfall of an administration and the rise of Nancy Pelosi (!) as Speaker of the House followed by... what... impeachment hearings? Lysistrata anyone? Meanwhile, does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs? You can forget about privacy. It no longer exists, if it ever did. The Patriot Act, if you think about it, is on some levels a joke, the Constitution a sideshow. The craven and rapacious stalk the corridors of power egged on by a loathesome media as hypocrisy rules and child abuse rears its ugly head with the age of consent debated by people whose only interest is their own ambitions. Meanwhile, lost in the shadows, an enemy whose "Messenger" married a nine -year old watches and waits.
The focus of Simon's post was the irony of Big Brother-paranoid liberals now glorifying in the once-private emails and instant messages of their fellow citizens. It was precisely this far left hypocrisy that Reynolds cited:
Hmm: "Meanwhile, does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs? You can forget about privacy. It no longer exists, if it ever did."
Neither Simon nor Reynolds mentioned the page's name. Reynolds did not link to the blog that named the page in any way, shape or form. Simon only did so in a larger concept of showing how easily some can change their tune when it suits their political needs.
And Simon is indeed right in that respect, as a simple search of Think Progress itself shows.
Checking the emails, instant message and other communications of suspected terrorists? Think Progress is
against it.
Making political hay out of the emails and instant messages of a page-molesting
Republican? Think Progress is
all for it, as are most other liberal sites.
Perhaps I
might find the left's Republican witch hunt in the wake of Foley's resignation far more believable if they hadn't done so much to keep Democratic Congressmen accused of similar offenses in office in the past.
Democrat Mel Reynolds, unlike Foley, actually had sex with a 16 year-old. He was indicted in April of 1994, and re-elected by Democrats that November all the same. Reynolds only left Congress
months after being convicted on 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice and the solicitation of child pornography.
Democrat Gerry Studds, unlike Foley, was a Congressman who had sex with a 17 year-old page and
refused to apologize for it. Studds even turned his back to Congress in disrespect as they read a censure motion against him. Democrats kept him in office until he finally retired
13 years afterward.
Perhaps I could find Judd's outrage just a little more sincere if his party didn't have a track record of electing and re-electing the known sexual predators in their midst.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:30 PM
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Where It Hurts
It seems that certain liberal gossip blogs don't care who they malign or misrepresent, as long as they can turn a smear to their advantage.
I
mentioned last week how obsessed UNC Law Professor
Eric Muller, the gossip blog
Wonkette, and its parent company
Gawker Media used a
photoshopped picture to attack conservative blogger and journalist Michelle Malkin for what they misrepresented as "hypocrisy." Muller has since apologized.
He is the only one.
It now turns out that even after the owner of many of the pictures stolen from various Webshots.com accounts pressed both Wonkette and Gawker Media to stop the smear campaign, they have thus far to refused to answer her emails or justify their continued smears.
In response, Ashley Herzog, the owner of many of the stolen photos shown on the
faked photo site, has come forward to write
scathing rebuke directed at those involved:
...I wrote an e-mail to Wonkette, the blog that first posted the pictures. I explained that only one picture on the page showed the real Michelle Malkin – I took it at the Conservative Political Action Conference last February, where I briefly met her. The others had been stolen from my webpage.
Three days later my letter remained unanswered, and the smear campaign against Malkin raged on. I sent a second request to Gawker, the media empire that owns Wonkette, detailing the theft of my pictures. I was optimistic that a conglomerate worth tens of millions of dollars would show some accountability toward its audience.
Two days have passed, and my inbox is still empty.
This is the brave new world of Internet media. Like many Americans, I entered it with a naïve notion of bloggers as modern-day pamphleteers, throwing the cover off stories that the establishment media won't touch. I believed that Internet blogs, being far more democratic mediums than mainstream television networks and newspapers, would show respect for the truth.
But after visiting a few popular blogs, I realized I was sadly mistaken. At best, many zero in on political gossip and absurd non-issues, such as whether a conservative author ever posed in a swimsuit. At worst, many political blogs are cesspools of racism, misogyny, and obscenity, not to mention vicious lies.
The posts and links to my pictures are still up, and I'm no longer anticipating a response from Gawker. They are a multimillion-dollar behemoth; I'm a college kid with a claim to a few stolen photographs. They have nothing to lose by ignoring me.
However, it seems the fallout from the Malkin hoax is far from over. This morning, I received an anxious message from an Ohio State student who had just discovered the fake photo page.
She identified herself as “the girl in the bikini” and explained that Malkin's face had been photoshopped onto her body. She asked what we could do to stop the pictures from being circulated.
The answer, unfortunately, is probably “nothing.” Gawker and its ilk appear willing to perpetuate bald-faced lies in order to advance an agenda. And they don't mind taking a few innocent college girls along for the ride.
Obviously, neither the staff of Wonkette nor Gawker Media gives a fig about their continued exploitation of Ashley Herzog's photos, their exploitation of Meredith Chan, the young woman in the real bikini photo used in the Photoshop.
But there is a way to make Gawker Media respond, and that by hitting them where it hurts... the wallet. Gawker Media is estimated to be worth $76 million dollars, with their primary income generated by advertising.
I suggest that those who feel strongly about this agenda-driven abuse of Malkin, Herzog and Chan should consider a boycott of Gawker Media advertisers, accompanied by an email to the companies explaining just why they will not be purchasing products advertised on Gawker Media Web sites.
One can easily visit
Gawker or
Wonkette to compile a list of companies to contact.
I quickly compiled of companies advertising on these sites, including BellSouth's yellowpages.com, CarMax, Panasonic, and FSGBooks, but you can easily create your own list as well.
I'm linking them to this
Malkin article called "The Gawker Smear Machine" among others, just so they know who they are spending their advertising dollars with.
I may be wrong, but I doubt this is the kind of attention they'll enjoy.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Not 18
There are a lot of folks getting this wrong, so follow the bold:
The page pursued by Mark Foley was 17 at the time Foley began sending explicit instant messages.
The young man was 17 when the IMs began and continued to receive IMs after he turned 18, including the now infamous
House vote instant message, were sent.
That
in no way mitigates the fact that a Congressman abused his position of authority in the pursuit of sexual gratification from those under his influence whether the victim is 16 or 60.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:21 AM
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1
My friends and I are so tired of all the negativity and sleaze that we've started our own yahoo group with the aim of building something better. Folks are free to look us up and join, if they agree.
CY, no offense if you delete this post--as I don't know if it's against your rules. Note my posting here does not constitute any endorsement by you!
Thanks,
Marshall Neal
Bakersfield, CA.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/middleamerican/
Posted by: Marshall Neal at October 05, 2006 10:49 AM (aE9Lg)
2
Yes, instant messages might have started while the page or ex-page was age 17, but we have not been shown any of the messages that were exchanged while he was 17. No, we have only been shown the most salacious one, the one that was exchanged between adults.
I suspect that we haven't seen the earlier IM's because they are not clearly inappropriate.
Posted by: Frew at October 05, 2006 03:04 PM (zt3o8)
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He's Baaaack...
Okay, not really, but it is an interesting retro-modern concept, and one I hope that works out well for Michael Totten and others writing for The New Pamphleeter.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Reprehensible Behavior
I'm a bit behind the curve on this one, but it seems that a pair of conservative bloggers exploited a mistake by ABC News and exposed the name of one of the teens that exchanged instant messages with disgraced (and now former) Florida Republican Congressman Mark Foley.
Frankly, I'm disgusted by this, and I will not link to the blogs or even mention them by name. As Michelle Malkin
notes:
There was absolutely no good reason to expose the former congressional page's name and identity. Seizing on ABC News' redaction failure and reporting errors (more on that in a moment) to play gotcha in a feeble attempt to avenge Foley is not a sufficient reason to obliterate the young man's privacy. The young man was the prey, not the predator.
Outing is a horrible practice when used to attempt to bully closeted gays. Outing is even more reprehensible when used to attack those who are the targets of sexual predators.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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October 04, 2006
The Gay-Baiting Left
They can call it a "big tent" party all they want, but by their actions, it's rather clear that what liberals are hiding under is just another name for a large white sheet:
There's a list going around. Those disseminating it call it "The List." It's a roster of top-level Republican congressional aides who are gay.
On CBS News on Tuesday, correspondent Gloria Borger reported that there's anger among House Republicans at what an unidentified House GOPer called a "network of gay staffers and gay members who protect each other and did the Speaker a disservice." The implication is that these gay Republicans somehow helped page-pursuing Mark Foley before his ugly (and possibly illegal) conduct was exposed. The List--drawn up by gay politicos--is a partial accounting of who on Capitol Hill might be in that network.
I have a copy. I'm not going to publish it.
Not going to publish it? He's just going to mention the positions held by those on the list, as well as which Congressional offices they work for. David Corn's the kid in class who claimed he didn't "tattle" even as he pointed at the other kids. The "List" was compiled by liberal activists over the course of several years.
There is a vile, bullying aspect at play here in the left as they once again attack a minority group for daring to wander off of what Democrats feel are the borders of their liberal plantation.
A black conservative? Must be a race traitor.
Let's call him Sambo, or better yet,
stalk him.
A gay conservative? Let's invoke
the 3/5 compromise, because gay conservatives don't have
full citizenship.
Nothing like whipping up on an uppity minority to get that liberal superiority Jones satisfied.
One of these days, voters in different minority groups are going to realize that by giving the overwhelming supermajority of their votes to one party, no matter how they are treated by that party, that they've made themselves a political non-entity. They've taken themselves completely out of play, and given aware their power.
Only once both parties have the think that they could gain or lose their votes as values-based individuals and families—and not a monolithic special interest groups—will they have any real power as people.
It never amazes me that liberals abuse those they claim to represent. It only amazes me that
those they abuse put up with the abuse.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
they once again attack a minority group for daring to wander off of what Democrats feel are the borders of their liberal plantation.
. . . because if anyone knows which plantation these "minorities" belong on, it's someone who goes by "Confederate Yankee."
Now that you've diagnosed the false consciousness of gays, blacks and other minorities who cling inexplicably to the Democratic Party, perhaps you could explain how the Republicans are offering a better deal?
I suppose it's hardly worth pointing out that a vast gulf separates (a) the design and promotion of policies that systematically and openly discriminate against gay people for being gay; and (b) a list compiled by party activists to document the hypocrisy of gay-baiting political figures. However mean-spirited "the list" may be, it isn't gay-baiting.
Posted by: Captain Howdy at October 04, 2006 04:00 PM (LHK5X)
2
Gay-baiting? Oh, that'd be Kerry/Edwards 'revealing' that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian while wearing that 'but I'm not judging' smirk.
Discriminating against gay people? Oh, that'd be anyone who opposes the 'more equal than the other animals' theory of hate-speech while gays refer to the majority of the population as breeders? That'd be the idea that marriage needs to be defined as one man and one woman as the basis of an ordered society; that the outliers do not get to re-define for the rest of society one of the building blocks of that society?
Republicans may not offer a better deal, but Conservatives certainly do, in that we appraise on individual merits not group identity, and today the Republican party is where you find Conservatives and Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Bobby Jindahl, Mary Cheney, Tammy Bruce and on and on. And these are the people the Left and the Democrats constantly berate as traitors.
Mike Ross is the guy behind outing gay Republicans and their staff and it is indeed blackmail as far as gays who don't support the homosexual agenda.
Posted by: Cindi at October 04, 2006 04:22 PM (asVsU)
3
Correction: that'd be Mike Rogers.
Posted by: Cindi at October 04, 2006 04:25 PM (asVsU)
4
And these are the people the Left and the Democrats constantly berate as traitors.
I hate to tell you this, but since you clearly don't actually speak to (or read anything written by) "the Left" or "the Democrats," you should know that most of us just aren't that preoccupied with Mary Cheney and the rest of the folks on your list. We really aren't.
As for the rest of your illiterate outburst, I couldn't make heads or tails of much of what you wrote. But I would gently remind you that sodomy laws -- which I suspect more "conservatives" than liberals support -- discriminated against people as a group (until, much to the dismay of most "conservatives," the Supreme Court struck those laws down); theocratic marriage laws -- which I suspect more "conservatives" than liberals support -- discriminate against people as a group by denying them literally hundreds of legal advantages that are available through no other means than marriage.
You can claim that conservatives judge people on their "individual merits," but no matter how you slice it, many of the laws that "conservatives" support do no such thing. No matter how meritorious a gay man is, he can't marry the person of his choosing. You can support those laws or not -- I really couldn't give a squirt -- but don't embarrass yourself by claiming that conservatives only see individuals.
Posted by: Captain Howdy at October 04, 2006 05:17 PM (LHK5X)
5
Cindi:
You wear your ignorance on your sleeve.
The Democrats--and liberals in general--don't accuse those they disagree with of being traitors. That despicable practice is entirely the province of the right wing.
The idea really sucks, doesn't it? So why don't you guys stop doing it for a while?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at October 04, 2006 09:05 PM (Suev0)
6
Doc -
The Democrats--and liberals in general--don't accuse those they disagree with of being traitors. That despicable practice is entirely the province of the right wing.
to betray:
To deliver into the hands of an enemy by treachery or fraud, in violation of trust; to give up treacherously or faithlessly; as, an officer betrayed the city.
traitor (plural traitors)
One who violates his allegiance and betrays his country; one guilty of treason; one who, in breach of trust, delivers his country to an enemy, or yields up any fort or place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also, one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or one who aids an enemy in conquering his country.
Hence, one who betrays any confidence or trust; a betrayer.
""He betrayed this country!" Mr. Gore shouted into the microphone at a rally of Tennessee Democrats here in a stuffy hotel ballroom. "He played on our fears. He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure preordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place."
The speech had several hundred Democrats roaring their approval for Mr. Gore, the party's 2000 standard-bearer."
Wrong again Doc.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at October 04, 2006 09:28 PM (jHBWL)
Posted by: aja10024 at October 04, 2006 11:03 PM (GIL7z)
8
You are really reaching CY and I am enjoying these nice reads!
However, I do give Republicans credit. Once again, Democrats are stupidly playing their game, talking their politics, fighting their fight. Mainly, discussion is dominated by security and war on terror and none of the other issues except the news of the day (Foley). How 'bout some discussion on economics, healthcare, port security, immigration, deployment of troops to catch that black sheep Saudi terrorist responsible for 9/11? I hear crickets!
When you have nothing else to run on....that's what you have to do. Gay baiting, Clinton did this, Clinton did that ten years ago! What is next? Carter? JFK?
The countdown to neutralization continues......Get ready for our great system of government to bring us back into check. Thank God.
Posted by: Johnny at October 04, 2006 11:09 PM (SX/F1)
9
Typical of the'reality-based' community. Attack, call names but don't address the argument. Feh.
Posted by: Cindi at October 04, 2006 11:28 PM (asVsU)
10
Typical of the'reality-based' community. Attack, call names but don't address the argument. Feh.
Actually, Cindy, I addressed your "argument" to the degree that I could figure out what exactly you were trying to say amid the stream of non-sentences you coughed onto the screen there.
And Southern Roots -- let's stick to the topic here. CY (and Cindy) accused "the Left" of baiting gays and duping "minorities" into voting for their candidates. Cindy, furthermore, accused "the Left" of being consumed with fury at the "traitors" like Condi Rice and Mary Cheney -- "minorities" who vote Republican. Neither claim has any evidence to support it.
As for the issue of "traitors," we all know the difference between calling someone a "traitor" and claiming that someone has "betrayed the country." It's a subtle difference, but it's meaningful. When the Right accuses someone (as I often hear folks like Michael Reagan doing on talk radio and cable news) of providing "aid and comfort to the enemy," they're actually using the language of Federal treason statutes -- and they're directly citing laws that provide for the execution of "traitors." To my knowledge, Gore was not suggesting that Bush be arrested for violating those laws.
Oops, I've strayed from the topic.
Posted by: Captain Howdy at October 04, 2006 11:54 PM (LHK5X)
11
No, you didn't address anything. Can't understand what I wrote? Stop moving your lips as you read.
Posted by: Cindi at October 05, 2006 01:31 AM (asVsU)
12
The rhetoric of Michael Rogers (and similar ilk) is disturbingly like that in the Turner Diaries or Hunter(another book the guy who wrote TD did).
To the lefties, yes, I've read both TD and Hunter, have you? Do you know what is actually contined within?
How could you support anyone espousing that TD brand of race traitor rhetoric like Rogers does?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 05, 2006 01:31 AM (gAZzN)
13
How interesting. "Liberals" attacking people they nominally support because of their politics. i guess identity politics goes only so far.
It is almost as if they didn't believe what they say.
Jews have been getting it from the Ds for a long time (Al Sharpton, McKinney, etc.) and still vote lock step D.
A word to the wise - after a while people begin to notice.
Posted by: M. Simon at October 05, 2006 05:34 AM (9ihWI)
14
SouthernRoots, it's always a sign of impending disaster when someone has to resort to the, "Webster's defines [insert whatever word you don't understand] as..." gambit. Yes, I get it. You had to find some way to twist what Gore said as being equal to the incessant attacks of Limbaugh et al., so you used your book skills. As an English teacher, I applaud you for looking something up.
I stand corrected.
Let me restate. The Reich Wing is responsible for 99.999% of all accusations of treason. I exaggerated the last one-thousandth of a percent for dramatic effect.
Further, Gore may have used a rhetorical flourish in a speech, saying that the Republicans are "betraying" the nation. It is the Republicans themselves, however, who come out and directly accuse Progressives of treason and suggest that they are liable for prosecution. Let's just begin with your buddies O'Reilly and Pat Robertson.
Daring to suggest that the Progressives do it more than the Reich Wing is only a sign of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
Game, set and match, my friend.
Why do you hate America?
Posted by: Doc Washboard at October 05, 2006 08:08 AM (go8G2)
15
Cindi:
By calling names and refusing to refute your opponents' points, you are doing precisely what you are contemptuously accusing your opponents of doing.
In the reality-based community, we call that "irony." Sometimes we call it "cowardice." Whatever. You choose the one that fits.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at October 05, 2006 08:22 AM (go8G2)
16
You know why cant we just call a spade a spade this is rediculous both sides of the aisle are corrupt. This is just another example of how politicians in general have conviluted the entire system to promote their own agenda.
I am a republican but I dont agree with everything they have done and say. On the same token some of the things that the democrats say are true.
So like I said let just call this what it is politics at its finest in our great country (pun intended)
Posted by: 81 at October 05, 2006 08:58 AM (0EcTE)
17
Don't waste your time people. This is just another example of the fallacious logic of the left. Merely because they've baptised their ideology with the word "liberal," they feel that they're automatically free from bigotry. And anyone who suggests anything to the contrary is attacked as being "intellectually bakrupt." There's no amount of evidence you can throw their way. They refuse to look past their self-righteous talk long enough to see the hypocrisy of their actions.
Roger Simon said it perfectly, "...does anyone think it is ironic that so-called progressives who excoriated eavesdropping on terrorists are feasting on the publication of supposedly confidential email and IMs? You can forget about privacy. It no longer exists, if it ever did. The Patriot Act, if you think about it, is on some levels a joke, the Constitution a sideshow. The craven and rapacious stalk the corridors of power egged on by a loathesome media as hypocrisy rules and child abuse rears its ugly head with the age of consent debated by people whose only interest is their own ambitions."
Oh, and you don't have to try to debate me on this. We'll just agree to disagree. I don't think anyone's changing any minds here today.
Posted by: Granddaddy Long Legs at October 05, 2006 09:03 AM (q73o1)
18
Roger Simon said it perfectly . . .
Guffaw.
No, I won't try to change your mind on this because you clearly haven't got one.
As proof of this, I'll just ask you to explain what the last sentence in that quotation from Roger Simon's actually means.
Posted by: Captain Howdy at October 05, 2006 11:09 AM (LHK5X)
19
Doc-where in the above posts did I call anyone a name? I didn't.
There's no sense in repeating myself to someone who claims they 'can't' understand what I've written because I'm 'illiterate'. What's to refute - that I'm not illiterate? He didn't address my points.
Posted by: Cindi at October 05, 2006 06:46 PM (asVsU)
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A War on Terror Over
Terrorism ending not with a bang, but a whimper:
The Irish Republican Army has begun reducing its membership and shut down key units responsible for weapons-making, arms smuggling and training, an expert panel reported Wednesday in findings designed to spur a revival of Catholic-Protestant cooperation in Northern Ireland.
The British and Irish governments warmly welcomed the 60-page assessment of the Independent Monitoring Commission, a four-man panel that includes former directors of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and the anti-terrorist unit of Scotland Yard.
The assessment reported that the IRA — which last year declared a formal end to its campaign to overthrow Northern Ireland by force and handed its weapons stockpiles to disarmament chiefs — had recently shut down three command units and "run down its terrorist capability.''
The report said the IRA has disbanded military structures, including the departments responsible for weapons procurement, engineering and training, and it had cut back rank-and-file members and stopped payments to them, the report said.
"We do not believe that PIRA is now engaged in terrorism," it added, using the group's full formal name of Provisional IRA. "We do not believe that PIRA is undertaking terrorist-type training. We do not believe that PIRA has been recruiting. ... The leadership is seeking to reduce the size of the organization. We have no evidence of targeting, procurement or engineering activity.''
The commission said the leadership of the IRA does not consider a return to terrorism as in any way a viable option and it continues to direct its members not to engage in criminal activity.
The Provisional IRA, (PIRA or "Provos") first emerged in 1969 to end Northern Ireland's status within the United Kingdom and force a united socialist Irish state through terrorist attacks. "
The Troubles" lasted from the late 1960s until the late 1990s.
After 30 years of war, and an occasionally broken cease-fire measured in years, the Provos turned in their weaponry—thousands of small arms, grenades, some heavy machine guns and even surface-to-air missiles—in 2005. A year later, comand and control elements are slowly dismantling and recruitment has stopped.
The Provos called it the "
Long War," and convincing arguments can be made that this was a sectarian conflict, or even a civil war.
The PIRA and other nationalist groups were only willing to negotiate a political settlement once they determined after decades of low-intensity warfare that loyalists and the British Army were not leaving. They finally accepted the inevitable, that they could not beat an indigenous government supported by its own military and police forces and strong external interests acting on the government's behalf.
Somehow, this all seems vaguely reassuring.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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The Troubles started long before the 1960s. Rather more like the Battle of the Boyne, followed by Cromwell's invasion and the continuing occupation.
Posted by: ProudIrish at October 04, 2006 05:04 PM (CcBza)
2
It has been the last of the tribal wars in the British Isles, carried on with all the lingering resentments over mutual retaliations that tribal wars always have.
I think the Irish economic boom has had a lot to do with this finally resolving. The offering of return citizenship to children and grandchildren of the Irish brought in people who had seen life without tribal warfare. The lesson the Americans have by and large given to the world has been "Get a damn job, and you'll find that these things don't loom so large anymore. Land and territory matters less when you're mobile."
Next up: the Romanians and the Hungarians. Just get a damn job.
Posted by: Assistant Village Idiot at October 04, 2006 07:37 PM (1w197)
3
Another factor in the decline of the Provos is that they were once linked to other terror organizations which are now defunct (Red Army Faction) or on hard times (PLO/Fatah), and that Irish Americans simply got tired of under-the-table funding a Marxist-oriented terror group.
Posted by: chsw10605 at October 04, 2006 10:10 PM (WdHqZ)
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One other thing that changed; whether you live in County Antrim or County Mayo, everyone travels with an E.U. passport.
Posted by: Tom TB at October 05, 2006 04:27 AM (GIL7z)
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Who Knew What, When
Flopping Aces said he saw Dick Morris making a starling charge last night on Hannity & Colmes.
It's hearsay evidence at best.
Morris says he was told by a "respected reporter" has proof that a senior Democratic member of Congress knew about Foley's sexually explicit instant messages to House pages
months ago.
It remains to be seen if there is any validity to this charge. If a reporter (and that's a big "if") has such evidence, then that reporter has a moral obligation to come forward with the story. If the evidence is reasonably solid, then we would be looking at a situation where at least one Democrat knew that a sexual predator was preying upon theses teens, and did nothing for months to warn the House leadership or law enforcement of Foley's actions for obvious political gain.
Which brings me back to my questions yesterday that
disappeared at the ABC News blog,
The Blotter.
The questions were:
- when did Ross become aware of the existence of these instant messages?
- were these instant messages given to Ross and the Staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary?
We know that Brian Ross of ABC News has been the lead journalist on this story, and that Ross's ABC News team has compiled at least 52 separate instant messages between Foley and House pages. It seems logical that if Morris really did make the claim that a respected reporter knew of a senior House Democrat sitting on this claim, that Brian Ross, as the reporter most immersed in this story, is likely the reporter to which Morris refers.
Update: Jonah G.
has the transcript (my bold):
HANNITY: All right, perhaps, but we'll examine that in the next segment. But I think more importantly here there's some fundamental, I think, fairness issues here.
Everybody that I know is glad Foley is gone, but there seems to be an issue here to purposefully politicize this issue, and I find that equally repugnant to me. And, more importantly, I think this takes on a whole new dimension, and this is it, that, if in the pursuit of political power you are going to falsely accuse individuals of knowing things about horrible scandals like this, you better have evidence, because we live in America, and those American people you're describing are fair-minded.
MORRIS: And that's going to back fire.
HANNITY: And when innocent people are smeared, Dick, I've got to believe that people would tend to side with the people that are being smeared. And I see that this is happening more and more in this scandal.
MORRIS: And that's going to back fire on the Democrats by focusing on what did Hastert know, because you know that some of the Democratic congressmen knew. I had a reporter who told me today that she knows that one very prominent member of the Democratic leadership knew about this for months. And it came out through...
HANNITY: That's a big story.
MORRIS: ... a left-wing — came out — yes, but it's up to her to break it. And came...
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: But, Dick, it's the Republican leadership we're dealing with here. It's their leadership.
MORRIS: Yes. I mean, the Democratic leadership knew, was what she told me. And I think that, obviously, it came out through a liberal Web site, and obviously it was fed to ABC through one of their more liberal channels. And obviously there were Democratic fingerprints on it.
But I don't think that the public is going to care much about what Hastert knew and what the Democratic leadership knew and any of that. They are going to focus on the details of this scandal, and they'll be very glad that it came out, and they will feel that it epitomizes what's wrong with Congress.
COLMES: All right, Dick, we only have a few moments here before we have to break again. But, look, this actually appeared on a Web site, "Stop Sexual Predators." I don't know that that's a liberal Web site.
We know that the Democrat in the page program in Congress was not informed. Only the Republicans knew. To actually put any blame for this on the Democratic leadership, as if they should have done something, when it's clear the Republican leadership didn't, is really not taking responsibility where it belongs.
MORRIS: Listen, I hate to take both of you on at once, but you're both missing the point. This is not a Democratic or a Republican scandal. It's a congressional scandal.
Well, the pronoun "she" and "her" seems to blow my Brian Ross theory all to Hell unless Morris was intentionally misdirecting attention away from his source. The fact remains that Morris willing to go on the record and say that Congress is to blame here, not just one party. Knowing how dirty both parties can be, that seems an honest assessment.
Now it is a matter of determining which other bums in addition to Foley need to be thrown out, and I suspect there are one or two more on both sides of the aisle. Anyone who knew about Foley's IMs (the emails were too ambiguous to act upon) to these pages and withheld that knowledge for any reason is little better than Foley himself, and is an accessory after the fact.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:34 AM
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1
Recommend you check the poster comment at polypundit
about Selena Zito of the Pittsburg Tribune
http://polipundit.com/wp-comments-popup.php?p=15288&c=1#comments
Posted by: Observer at October 04, 2006 10:14 AM (1aM/I)
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Mike Rogers just sanitized his 05' blog entry that "outed" Foley and suggested there would be more revealed as the election approached.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 04, 2006 11:57 AM (gAZzN)
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As much 'fun' as it is to speculate over who knew what about Foley and when, I'm more interested in finding out if there's anybody else on the Hill - elected official or staffer - who is doing something along the same lines. Is it possible that Foley - a whopping 2 tenths of one percent of those elected to Congress - is the only one doing such things? Is it possible that there are others on the Hill being covered for by their colleagues?
Full challenge is here
Posted by: steve sturm at October 04, 2006 03:40 PM (bZSI1)
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We've said it before and we'll say it again. CREW knew. Their Adobe files indicate they had copies of the "innocuous" emails at the end of June. They started pimping them in July. Why? Because they had more dirt and were simply looking for the right...as in biddable...outlet.
Brian Ross would be that outlet.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at October 04, 2006 08:35 PM (8OLAz)
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Thank you!
http://nhhpxsbq.com/ioex/uwfv.html | http://dxxfbcjx.com/sxvp/csnm.html
Posted by: Gabriel at October 06, 2006 05:12 AM (X3ZvX)
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October 03, 2006
What Did Brian Ross Know, and When Did He Know It?
Suddenly, I'm very interested in knowing what the posting policy is at the ABC New blog, "The Blotter." Not the official policy, but the unofficial policy used by ABC News to determine which submitted comments get posted, and which ones get deleted before publication.
Their latest blog post
reveals the text of another disgusting instant message between former Florida Congressman Mark Foley and an underage page, one that claims:
Former Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) interrupted a vote on the floor of the House in 2003 to engage in Internet sex with a high school student who had served as a congressional page, according to new Internet instant messages provided to ABC News by former pages.
Claiming that Foley "interrupted" the vote is of course hyperbole (“Stop the vote! I have, err,
business to take care of!” Foley was not heard to say) and not really of interest, but I did note that the instant message was made in April of 2003. 2003 was also the year that the original and far less than inflammatory emails between Foley and other pages were written.
I thought it was quite interesting that all of the reveals communications so far have dated from 2003, and so I typed in the comments section simple questions for Brian Ross and the staff of The Blotter.
I noted that all of the electronic communications that have come forward so far were dated 2003, and that Ross himself knew of the emails for
13 months before publishing his first comments on the blog.
I then asked Ross to answer a couple of simple questions in a comment to The Blotter, namely:
- when did Ross become aware of the existence of these instant messages, and;
- were these instant messages given to Ross and the Staff of The Blotter directly by the pages, or were they filtered through an intermediary.
At least, that is roughly what I remember typing. Somehow the comment didn't end up being posted on The Blotter, though literally dozens of other comments have been posted since the time I submitted very reasonable questions.
If I didn't know better, I'd think that that the staff of The Blotter was censoring comments. There are of course legitimate reasons to censor comments, ranging from removing foul and abusive language to deleting off topic comments, and many bloggers (including myself) often engage in precisely that kind of editing to keep a blog post's comments thread on topic and relevant.
But to censor legitimate on-topic questions and comments is another matter entirely, and I'm surprised that the staff of the Blotter, seasoned journalists all, is so thin-skinned that they felt compelled to kill a comment asking them logical questions about the key elements of the story itself. It was unlikely that Ross or the other ABC News reporters on this story would have actually answered these two rather simple questions, but to go so far as to keep other readers for seeing these questions only makes their answers more pressing.
What did Brian Ross know, and When did he know it? Did the pages themselves send these instant messages to the Blotter, and if so, when? Was there an intermediary involved?
I'd like to get answers to the questions, but the staff of the Blotter obviously doesn't even want the questions to be asked.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:23 PM
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it could have just been a glitch in the "comments" section...bottm line is that a whole bunch of different people knew about the scummy behavior of Foley for a looonngggg time and chose to do nothing abou it.
Posted by: mooslime at October 03, 2006 05:15 PM (A4xPG)
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I doubt very seriously it was a "glitch." Not if you posted the questions and saw them after you "published", it wasn't. Evidently they don't want to answer those questions and they don't want anyone else to see that they aren't answering them.
I also believe that ABC news held on to this story long before they published it, waiting as long as they could to do so right before the November election. No, I don't condone Foley for what he did. But the hypocrisy of the Dems is beyond belief. They want to blame the entire Republican party for the reprehensible actions of one man! They are obviously using this to their political advantage and I don't really believe they give a fig about the 16 year-old kid. Remember that these Democrats who are so outraged forgave Gary Studds for having sex with a page and even re-elected him. They forgave Barney Frank for running a gay prostitution ring our of his basement and even he was re-elected. They forgave Clinton! What do you suppose they would do to Bush for pulling a "Lowinski" in the Oval Office? Would they forgive him? Not on your life! I know many Democrats who to this day think Clinton was the greatest president ever.
Posted by: Gayle at October 03, 2006 05:28 PM (pOhsL)
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Too bad 3rd Voice is out of business...you could have littered that web page with 3rd Voice comments ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 03, 2006 09:18 PM (LPMTm)
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Glad to see you've picked up your marching orders.
Posted by: Bad Attitude at October 03, 2006 10:29 PM (LHK5X)
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BA- It's simple. Foley bad - Foley out.
Libs demanding Hastert and other Republicans resign, claiming "cover-up" and need to protect minors.
If any Libs had this information (some say as long ago as last November) and they didn't get the news out right away, then they have no grounds for demanding resignations, at least not for their currently stated reasons - since they also are guilty of a "cover-up" for political reasons.
Foley bad - Foley gone.
Posted by: SouthernRoots at October 03, 2006 11:37 PM (jHBWL)
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No matter what "some say," the fact remains that Hastert and Boehner knew there was something fishy and possibly criminal taking place, and they elected to do nothing about it. I'm not sure I can conceive of any legal or ethical precedent by which active collaborators are indemnified because their political opponents declined to run screaming to the media. Hastert is toast, my friend, and a good thing, too.
Posted by: B.A. at October 04, 2006 12:44 AM (LHK5X)
7
the fact remains that Hastert and Boehner knew there was something fishy and possibly criminal taking place
Ummmm....BA...would you mind stating your proof of this...and maybe a link to that proof? I don't think you can.
Posted by: Specter at October 04, 2006 06:16 AM (ybfXM)
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Hooray! Shooting the messenger again! Never mind the Republican pedophile--let's go after the folks who told you about him!
I love this game!
Posted by: Doc Washboard at October 04, 2006 07:54 AM (Suev0)
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Doc,
You know of course that a pedophile has an interest in prepubescent, or colloquially, under "the age of consent" children. You missed the boat.
Here we have a gay man who liked teens. That does not make him a pedophile. Is it disgusting? Yes. Did he quit? Yes (as opposed to say the guy who said, "I did not have sex with that woman.")
But there are two issues here, and you need to come to grips with both. The first is Foley and his behavior. He is gone. Done deal. There is an investigation going on into whether he did anything illegal. If so, arrest and charge him.
The other side of the coin though is that it is ludicrous for the Dems to stand up and say that the Repub Leadership was not protecting 'children' by not taking further action. Based on what they knew, they did take action - as much as they could. Sorry that Nancy "SS" Pelosi doesn't get her way of "Should have siezed his computer." There was no probable cause, based on the emails - which is all the Republican Leadership, and the FBI had. The investigation will tell us about the IMs - who they were to, what age the other participant was (and don't doubt that they actively participated - read them), and whether any laws were broken. Again - if they were then charge the guy. No problem.
The final question comes down to who had these IMs in their possession? If they truly are evidence of illegal activity aimed at teens, then why were they not brought out sooner? Who do we blame for holding on to that evidence? Obviously, whoever had them was more concerned with the politics of the matter than protecting teens. And isn't that just a bit more reprehensible than only having seen the emails and taking what action they could? If it turns out that one of your lily-white, never-did-anything-wrong, Democratic leaders knew about the IMs - and if the information in them constitutes evidence of criminal nature - will you be the first in line calling not only for their resignation, but also their arrest for obstruction, aiding and abetting, reckless endangerment, etc. etc. etc.? Bet not.
Posted by: Specter at October 04, 2006 08:42 AM (ybfXM)
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If the blogger at Flopping Aces is correct, Dick Morris made the charge last night that a reporter has evidence that a senior House Democrat knew of the IMs months ago and did nothing.
If true, this could be explosive. I'll be covering it here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at October 04, 2006 08:58 AM (g5Nba)
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And yet another scandal blows up in the Dems faces. It is so funny to watch.....
Posted by: Specter at October 04, 2006 09:52 AM (ybfXM)
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Seen the latest Drudge headline?
Looks like the "youth" Foley was IM'ing was 18 -- which kind of makes the scandal a non-scandal from the dem's premature "child molester" POV.
Of course, ABC wasn't going to mention that and it only leaked out because they didn't scrub their posted stuff good enough.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 04, 2006 09:44 PM (gAZzN)
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I was sexified by Congressman Foley on the House floor. The Democrats were out of the room at the time and the Republicans had paid the camera man to stay focussed on somebody giving a Diversionary Speech in the well of the House. All the Republicans cheered and applauded what Foley did, then covered it up for years. I am outraged that no one has come forward to tell my story.
Posted by: New Page at October 09, 2006 03:17 PM (8phpy)
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Khomeini Letter Mentioned Call For Nuclear Weapons Deployment against Iraq
I'm sure Ted Koppel will tell us this was taken out of context:
Former Iranian president Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani has published a confidential letter by the late ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, which has stirred a great deal of controversy in Iran, in part because the letter refers to a military commander's call to pursue nuclear weapons to be deployed against Iran's hostile neighbor, Iraq.
The letter's significance, and the critical timing of its disclosure, cannot be overstated. Until now, there had been no official voices in favor of nuclear proliferation and plenty of opposite declarations
led by Khomeini's successor, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who has issued a religious decree, a fatwa, against it.
In his letter to political leaders, dated 1988, Khomeini does not make any judgment on the commander's position, which he mentions in passing in a narrative devoted to explaining the underlying reasons for his fateful decision to accept a United Nations resolution calling for a ceasefire in the Iran-Iraq War. These were the government's financial inability to persecute the war, failures in the battlefield, Saddam Hussein's backing by the United States, the increasing Americanization of the war, etc.
Khomeini's letter sets out the requirements of military commanders if they are to continue fighting against Iraq. It mentions more aircraft, helicopters, men and weapons, and also quotes the top commander saying that Iran would - within five years - need laser-guided and atomic weapons if it were to win the war.
I'm just thankful that Iranian's current leaders are
past that militant desire.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Driven to Distraction
Pull up Memeorandum, any major news web site, or political blog this morning, and you'll see two stories prominently featured, one on the Amish school shooting that has claimed five lives so far in rural Pennsylvania, and the other one dealing with the fallout of disgraced Florida Congressman Mark Foley's sexually explicit computer communications with teenaged pages in the House of Representatives.
It is clear that Foley's conduct is disgusting, unethical, and possibly criminal. It is also clear that (barring another major news event) this will be the political hot-button topic for at least the remainder of the week, due in no small part to how badly the House Republican leadership has responded to this clearly inappropriate behavior.
Washington and those who cover it love a juicy scandal. and this certainly reaches a sustainable level of interest for political junkies.
By all accounts, Mark Foley carried out explicit conversations with teen boys. Investigations should be launched by the appropriate law enforcement agencies to see if Foley broke any laws. If he did, he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the criminal justice system can provide. We can hope that Foley's predatory behavior has been confined to the keyboard, and that he never had to opportunity to physically act out any desires he may have had.
We can also probably agree with perfect 20/20 hindsight that the House Leadership should have more thoroughly investigated Foley's conduct, even though the parents of the page asked them to keep the matter quiet, and we can certainly fault their absence of leadership since this story came to light.
We can even understand the
Democratic plan to conflate this and grasp upon it as a major issue just five weeks out from a national election. If the Republicans were the minority party and had the chance to beat the Democratic Party over the head with this, they certainly would. All of that said, this story is not important when compared to the more pressing business facing the nation.
We have 140,000 soldiers in Iraq apparently unable to effectively reduce increasing sectarian violence, and no one in either party able to articulate a viable plan to bring safety and security to the 26 million citizens of Iraq.
We have a resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan suffering crushing battlefield defeats, but we are unable to muster up the political will to go after their training camps in Pakistan, measurably improve Afghanistan's infrastructure, or destroy a poppy crop that fills the Taliban's coffers and our streets with drugs.
We have an apocalyptic religious sect ruling Iran that is so radical that Ayatollah Khomeini outlawed it while he was alive, that is attempting to acquire nuclear weapons and has already stated an intention to "wipe Israel off the map," with the apparent goal of spurring a massive retaliatory strike in the hopes that nuclear explosions over Tehran will usher forth the
Twelfth Imam to bring forth the Apocalypse, not to mention North Korean threatening to
detonate one of their nuclear warheads.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have major issues affecting millions of lives around the world facing us that will be determined in part by how we vote in just five short weeks.
It is perfectly understandable that Democrats would seize upon such a minor issue as Foleygate and inflate its importance if they can, because such a minor issue that is something of a scale on which they may be able to operate. But we have far more pressing concerns as a nation than the predatory emails of a degenerate Congressman affecting a handful of teen boys. We have issues that affect the very lives of tens of millions of people around the world that have suddenly been put on a backburner.
It's time we place Foleygate in its proper context as a sideshow and continue to press both political parties in America to deal with the very real and mortal threats facing other nations and our own.
Too many lives hang in the balance to do otherwise.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Not to mention North Korea announcing they're going to test a nuke, and "Pope Protesters" hijacking a Turkish Airliner.
What a day.
Posted by: Bill Baar at October 03, 2006 12:20 PM (cDYPq)
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It appears the Right is finally, after a long and dark decade, intellectually and morally exhausted. The sooner America rises from the ashes, the better.
Posted by: Fred at October 03, 2006 04:04 PM (jSBbA)
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At best, both parties are intellectually exhausted, since the Democrat Party has been morally exhasuted since around 1992.
I am exhausted with a political system that allows apparent criminals and derelicts to buy their way into Congress, a federal bureaucracy that is more interested in personal power and turf wars than in serving the people, and a court system that believes it is beholden to academia rather than the Constitution. And I am tired of Presidents who cannot or will not lead this country.
But, since this is the kind of government we have, I will continue to support the good people while opposing the bad. Nothing else to do.
Posted by: Old-dawg at October 04, 2006 02:33 PM (mvlLy)
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WaTimes Calls for Hastert's Head
Nothing like a good old-fashioned lynching, eh boys?
Sexual predators come in all shapes, sizes and partisan hues, in institutions within and without government. When predators are found they must be dealt with, forcefully and swiftly. This time the offender is a Republican, and Republicans can't simply "get ahead" of the scandal by competing to make the most noise in calls for a full investigation. The time for that is long past.
House Speaker Dennis Hastert must do the only right thing, and resign his speakership at once. Either he was grossly negligent for not taking the red flags fully into account and ordering a swift investigation, for not even remembering the order of events leading up to last week's revelations -- or he deliberately looked the other way in hopes that a brewing scandal would simply blow away.
I'm not sure if the
Times has something they're withholding or if they are just far ahead of the story to a Leopoldian extreme, but what has been presented so far doesn't support their call for Hastert's resignation.
I'm not Hastert fan, and can't recall him having done much of anything as Speaker--which may well be enough reason to hang him out to dry according to some--but I'm simply seen nothing in the emails that should have warranted a major concern based purely on their content.
Denny Hastert has been utterly forgettable Speaker of the House, but I want to see more evidence that he was somehow either involved in covering up the scandal, or through gross negligence was unaware of a serious evidence of the likelihood of Foley's scandal, before calling for him to be cast down.
If the
Times wants Hastert gone over this, they need to make a solid case to their readers. So far, I think they've failed to do so.
Update: Captain Ed makes a very valid argument for
replacing Hastert:
As I wrote earlier, the strange reluctance of Republicans to investigate the earlier e-mails combined with Hastert's clumsy attempts to distance himself from the scandal on Friday have compounded the scandal -- which by all rights should fall completely on Mark Foley himself. Hastert's staffers told the press on Friday that he hadn't known of a problem with Foley, forcing John Boehner to retract his statement that he himself had told Hastert of the issue. Only after Thomas Reynolds went public the next day did Hastert himself admit that he had known of the earlier e-mails.
But let's put that aside for the moment, and concentrate on what Hastert and the leadership say they did in response to Foley. Once they found out about the e-mails through the complaint of an underage page, all they did was ask Foley about it, and accepted his denials at face value. Incredibly, no one apparently ever asked any of Foley's former or current pages if they had noticed any inappropriate behavior from the Congressman. What kind of an investigation doesn't address the reality of patterns in allegedly predatory behavior? Foley's uncommon interest in young teenage boys had become parlor talk among the pages, but either Hastert didn't want to find that out or deliberately avoided it. Hastert apparently made the decision not to follow procedures and refer the matter to the Page Board, the bipartisan committee that oversees pages, and that looks very clearly like a cover-up.
And someone has to explain why Foley retained his position on the Caucus for Missing and Exploited Children. No one saw a problem with this?
Even ascribing the best of intentions to Hastert and the other members of leadership, personal friendship with Foley doesn't excuse that level of incompetence. Furthermore, when the scandal broke, Hastert should have immediately explained his involvement in the earlier complaint, rather than wait for it to dribble out. That's what leadership means: controlling a situation and providing an example rather than allowing events to control you and your party. All Hastert needed to do was to come out on Friday and said, "We had a complaint about suggestive e-mails this winter, and we relied on Mark Foley's word that nothing more untoward had occurred. In hindsight, that was a mistake, but we wanted to honor the wishes of the parents and not make a public spectacle of the situation." It wouldn't have explained the earlier incompetence, but at least it would have dampened the firestorm that erupted around the changing stories of House leadership.
Perhaps Hastert should be replaced. He has not shown signs of leadership at any point in his tenure that I can readily recall, and he has now twice "stepped in it" (the first time was the absurd argument that Congressional offices are somehow out of legal jurisdiction during the William Jefferson investigation) when he has opened his mouth.
The sad fact of the matter is that incompetence is all to often the defining characteristic of "leadership" members in both parties and in the Congressional rank-and-file. If competence in government is going to be our new standard, the only people left in the halls of Congress will be the custodial staff. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
They at least, know how to clean up messes without making them worse.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I agree CY. What we need is more facts and less hysteria. If it is true that Hastert only saw the emails, then telling him to back off was the proper course. There was nothing in them that was illegal or actionable.
It also appears that he was never made aware of any of the IMs. If that is true, then there was no way for him to move forward and take any other action.
But what is really curious is the fact that somebody who is a Dem operative did have the IMs and held on to them. Why was that? I mean if there was something illegal done, then why weren't they handed over to the authorities? My suspicion is that they were viewed as not so much something that someone could be arrested over, but as a political wedge. Another Scandal du Jour brought to us via the DNC!
Posted by: Specter at October 03, 2006 07:11 AM (ybfXM)
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What the Cap said. Regardless of whether one thinks Hastert was negligent (I'm not so sure he was), it should have been the easiest thing in the world to defuse this, and Hastert did his best to confirm suspicions.
Another Scandal du Jour brought to us via the DNC!
Not so much. It was brought to you by Hastert. The DNC is just giving him the bullhorn.
Posted by: jpe at October 03, 2006 11:14 AM (5ceWd)
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jpe,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I see it is time to ground this issue in fact and not speculation. First off - Hastert and the rest of the Repub Leadership were made aware of the emails about a year ago. Don't confuse the emails with the IMs - they are completely different animals. Those emails are fairly innocuous - there is nothing overtly slimey or sexual in them at all. The Repub Leadership looked at them and then told Foley to stop. Not much else they could do, was there? In reality, they were following the wishes of the young man's parents. Hey - even sCREW sent the emails to the FBI and the FBI declined to investigate because there was nothing illegal about the emails.
The IMs may be a different story, but that has not been proven yet. Specifically, nobody has seen the header information from the IMs that proves it came from Foley to begin with (my suspicion is that they did). Be that as it may, the Repub Leadership was not made aware of these communications until last Friday. Notice when Foley left. I think the Republicans did their job - and that Foley did the right thing by resigning (as opposed to....I don't know....something like, "I did not have sex with that woman"...).
There is an FBI/police investigation into the IMs. If they prove to have come from Foley, then apply the applicable laws and make the guy defend himself. But what also has to be asked is where the IMs came from - and who held onto them sine they were sent in 2003 and earlier. The Dems are up in arms saying, "The Repub Leadership knew about this and did nothing to protect the 'children'." Yet - somebody on the left-leaning side has had those IMs in their possession for a long time, and only chose now - during an election season - to come forward with them. So - the Republican Leadership did not know about the IMs, but somebody on the left did. Which one was more negligent in "protecting children"? It sure looks like the person/people/CREW/Jason Leopold gang cared more about the impact in the election season than about the teens. What is really sweet is that if the cops find out that someone actually had those IMs for even a few days before they were released, they could be facing some pretty good charges. I suspect that the stuff was held on to for months and months.....
We'll see. But for the Dems to claim the high ground is ridiculous. They did less to protect the teens - and knew more. hypocrisy at best.
Posted by: Specter at October 04, 2006 06:39 AM (ybfXM)
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October 02, 2006
A School Shooting In Amish Country
This verges on the surreal:
Six people were killed by a gunman at a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster County Monday, according to the county coroner.
Earlier, state police Cpl. Ralph Striebig said "there are a number of people dead. ... The exact number I do not know yet."
The police told FOX News that it was in fact a hostage situation and that the shooter is now killed. There were at least 12 people injured, along with the deaths, police said. Not motive is yet known.
The anti-individualist philosophy and emphasis on humility in the Amish faith makes one of their schools an odd venue for a school shooting, a crime that seems most often linked to those completely immersed in their own selfishness to a homicidal degree.
I'm not sure that anyone can precisely state what the motivations for this shooter or the others in the recent rash of school shootings may be, but I'll go ahead and argue that a society that teaches non-competitiveness on one hand and mindless recreational violence on the other is to blame as the root cause.
Not sure of what I'm talking about?
Check out the youth sports programs in your area schools and parks & recreation departments, and see if they keep score during games, or if they emphasis noncompetitive games. I know some communities where this is the case, because parents don't want children to want to deal with the "trauma" of loosing a tee ball or soccer game. Instead of learning to confront and push through losing to learn from it (which we used to call developing "character"), today's kids are often taught to avoid taking part in situations where they might lose and hurt their all-important self esteem, even if their highly regarded self esteem is unwarranted.
While these examples apply to sports, you can also look to school systems that socially promote children even though they cannot do grade-level work, or even worse, school systems that dumb-down passing grades to such a low level that passing is inevitable. Some tests for some school systems now consider "passing" to be only getting 30%-40% of questions on standardized tests correct.
Our education systems are overrun by teachers who can't teach rote facts, and more importantly, they can't teach our children to
think. We are matriculating millions of American children who are completely unprepared to overcome challenges and failures in their lives.
At the same time that these same children are taught that the stupid and arrogant (Bam Margera, Natalie Maines, Paris Hilton, etc) can triumph but they can't, they ae also exposed to a media machine that cranks out slasher movies and extremely violent music lyrics and video games one after another.
We end up with children ill-equipped for success, unable to deal with failure, and programmed to see immediate violence as an acceptable answer to their short-term problems.
We shouldn't question why we've had so many school shootings lately. We should question why we've have had so few.
Update: The shooter has been identified as 32-year old delivery driver who carried out the attack in retaliation for something that happened "decades ago."
As you sow...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
01:59 PM
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1
Such a horrible thing to happen. Yet the Brady Bucnh will jump on this.
Have a Blessed Week
Posted by: Patty at October 02, 2006 03:10 PM (EJVBR)
2
Some people are just crazy and there's no need for an explanation.
Posted by: janek at October 02, 2006 03:34 PM (f5rc/)
3
Rather than restrict guns as would be advocated, it would be safer to have better access to them and less restriction. Particularly as law enforcement has given up any pretext to making our world safer, except from hookers.
Posted by: David Caskey, MD at October 02, 2006 04:26 PM (4ails)
4
I agree with your theory. Let me add a thought of my own here: I believe the 'child-labor' laws have added to the problem, in that we have precluded 'children' from any worthwhile endeavor that might inculcate some self-respect, as opposed to self-esteem. They are discouraged from achieving in school by a dumbed-down education system, aren't allowed competition in sports and finally, we won't allow 13-17 year olds a job in which they might learn something worth learning.
We keep them mindlessly busy, doing pointless activities and wonder why they're ignorant, bored and sullen.
Posted by: Cindi at October 02, 2006 05:12 PM (asVsU)
5
Allow me to paraphrase and condense what you just wrote:
"Although I haven't the foggiest idea about what might have caused this shooting, I'm not going to let that detain me from making an array of empirically unsupportable observations and causal claims that ultimately indict Society as the culprit."
Because until Society drained every ounce of competitiveness and character out of our children, hardly anyone had their heads blown off for no good reason.
Posted by: d at October 02, 2006 05:20 PM (4K53w)
6
Let me add a thought of my own here: I believe the 'child-labor' laws have added to the problem, in that we have precluded 'children' from any worthwhile endeavor that might inculcate some self-respect, as opposed to self-esteem.
Back to the mills and mines with them, I say! Their tiny hands must be good for some sort of productive enterprise. After all, these silly American labor regulations (which offer no exceptions whatsoever, damn them) are taking jobs away from American children and outsourcing them to Vietnam and Indonesia. Think of all the "character" and "self-esteem" our children might acquire from stitching soccer balls or sneakers all day long.
Posted by: d at October 02, 2006 05:26 PM (4K53w)
7
I almost entirely agree with you. However, your theory needs a small tune-up.
The claim that violent video games, slasher flicks etc. are the root cause of the source of violence in individiuals is demonstratably false. There are easily millions of individuals in the United States alone that enjoy these forms of entertainment and don't ever even have the smallest desire to kill/maim/massacre in the real world.
The root problem you need to address is that the violence stems from what you could consider a "lack of options". These kids are being mentally restrained by their teachers, leaving them in a position where they are physically unable to deal with reality. The result is that when they start having to deal with reality they can't handle it, leaving them confused, scared, and inevitably angry.
The next time you're really angry about something, ask yourself what the underlying emotion of that anger is. I guarantee you, the anger is not the "true" emotion. Anger generally is a cover for the true emotions that you're feeling - i.e. fear, confusion, desperation. The net result here is that these kids are left with nothing but their anger - and have probably never been properly taught to deal with such anger (just as they haven't been properly taught to deal with anything else).
There's only one cause here. Violent media has nothing to do with the ability of these kids to be law-abiding members of society. I guarantee you don't need violent entertainment in order to come to the thought of violence. Everything lies in how we're teaching our kids - and the result is becoming more apparent every day.
Posted by: JohnLocke at October 02, 2006 05:43 PM (ka7jG)
8
C'mon D, you know that's not what she was sayin'. I figured someone would respond with something like that though. I have to disagree with Cindi on the basis that there are things that kids can do around the neighborhood to get some money, if they're ambitious enough to do it. Mow lawns, shovel driveways, etc.. If a kid wants to work and earn some cash, they're not gonna sit around the house waiting until they turn 16 so they can finally get a little income.
I'm not sure if I agree with all the non-competetive stuff turning kids into whackjobs, or music/video games/etc.. There were lunatics prior to Grand Theft Auto III and Cannibal Corpse.
Posted by: paully at October 02, 2006 05:48 PM (yJuX3)
9
CY, you should be ashamed of a post like this. How vile. Clearly, liberals in society are at fault for this. Are you kidding me? And blaming Natalie Maines? Are you out of your skull? That is just low class.
I have to say though, I found this statement you made amusing--"We end up with children ill-equipped for success, unable to deal with failure, and programmed to see immediate violence as an acceptable answer to their short-term problems."
Sounds like the children of Confederates and Confederate sympthaizers to me.
Posted by: E at October 02, 2006 07:15 PM (ySIcX)
10
No, no, E -- Confederates settled disputes through character-building techniques like duels and lynchings and such.
Posted by: d at October 02, 2006 10:54 PM (4K53w)
11
and have probably never been properly taught to deal with such anger
We just drug'em today if they're a problem. Back in the 60's when I was in grade school, there was none of that crap. If you got out of line, you got smacked. Now you get a behavioral counceling, self esteem evals, etc.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 02, 2006 11:44 PM (VLNpS)
12
"Natalie Maines named as unindicted co-conspirator in Amish country school shooting. Dhimmi Chicks, at jihadi training in Pakistan, unavailable for comment."
Posted by: Doc Washboard at October 03, 2006 08:36 AM (KSxrS)
13
ConYank,
You've totally missed the point with violent video games. The problem is not that they are violent - that's been around since the dawn of video games. The problem is the transition from "3 Lives and that's it" (3LTI) carry-over from the coin-op era to the current "infinite do-over"(IDO) that is common today. In the days before IDO, if you screwed up 3 times, in the home version you had to start over and in the coin-op you had to put in another quarter. This instilled a sense of responsibility, personal accountability and urgency and a desire for excellence. Now with IDO, you can screw up as many times as you want and you always can back up to the last "winning" scenario. This teaches children that no matter how many times they screw up, they can always get a do-over. This dovetails far more concretely with your other point; take away the consequences of your actions - and if you screw up and lose, that's a consequence - then it's really no big deal. Think about it.
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14
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Posted by: pohititel at October 06, 2006 11:40 AM (VY4tB)
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Not All Quiet on Iran's Western Front
Iran Focus has a short post up this morning claiming that a network of "separatists:"
...was being supported and strengthened by the intelligence apparatuses of certain neighboring states and a European country which it did not identify.
The insurgent network was spread throughout two cities, including the Iranian capital of Tehran. You won't see this as a featured story by the Associated Press or Reuters, or mention on CNN or CBS News. Commenting upon the Iranian insurgency would be… problematic. It interferes with how the western news media often presents Iranian thought as a near monolith rallying behind President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, even as this is far from the case.
I suspect international news organizations purposefully under-report the long-running dissention and insurgency in the Iranian population—and propagate the Iranian government's views internally and as they apply to
foreign policy (think
CNN in Baghdad)—so that they are not frozen out completely of the news trickle (calling what the Iranian government censors allow a news cycle would be too generous) within the country by Ahmadinejad's government.
The fact remains that there have been
several attempts on Ahmadinejad's life within Iran during the past year that have received relatively little media attention. Iran has been fighting its own long-term, low intensity insurgencies, with both Sunni Baluchis and Kurds rebelling against the central Shiite government.
In addition, Iran's government does not represent the views of all Iranian Shiites. Many Shiites believe that Iran has a legitimate right to nuclear power, but they are increasingly worried that the thinly-veiled drive towards nuclear weaponry by Ahmadinejad's apocalyptic
Hojjatieh sect is pushing the country towards a conflict that they cannot win.
Iran has blamed Great Britain for supporting the elements of the Iranian insurgency, but has not yet been able to present any solid proof of those claims, as opposed to the solid physical evidence against Iran in providing material support for Hezbollah in Lebanon, Palestinian factions in the West Bank and Gaza, and the sectarian Shia violence in Iraq, in the form of
captured Iranian weaponry. It would be logical, of course, for Western powers to support the various low-level insurgencies in Iran.
Attacks in Iran's oil and gas producing regions can pose a threat to the stability of the central government. Hopefully Iranians can accomplish regime change without need for direct military intervention by Western armies, saving many lives on both sides.
Iran is fighting—and
taking hits—from its own insurgencies, and yet mainstream media organizations seem to purposefully limit reporting on them.
One might wonder if their coverage is purposefully
Jordanesque.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:27 AM
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OTOH, to keep oil prices down they probably want to avoid civil unrest in a major OPEC country.
That's called "realism," but it's really moral cowardice. Cheap gas is merely convenient, esp. politically.
Posted by: TallDave at October 02, 2006 11:17 AM (H8Wgl)
Posted by: Buddy Larsen at October 02, 2006 11:41 AM (lCS93)
3
On the other other hand, a period of declining oil prices might be the best time to take some action that might raise oil prices....
Posted by: PapayaSF at October 02, 2006 11:54 AM (m7kzB)
4
There is logic, however, in the US buying the time needed to strengthen Iraqi security forces before really dropping the hammer on Iran.
Posted by: edh at October 02, 2006 12:07 PM (xhvG7)
5
I think that Iran is HIGHLY vulnurable to many things that we could do to undercut the mad mullahs regime. Iran has no refinery capacity, so a sea embargo on imports of gasoline would bring their economy to a grinding halt in a matter of days. Most of Iran's oil fields are offshore oil rigs that could be seized and denied to the government while we pump away. These are, of course, acts of war, but so what? Better to take a proactive strategy than to wait around passively while Iran wrecks the democratic government in Iraq.
Posted by: Immanual Goldstein at October 02, 2006 12:36 PM (GpBi0)
6
Why not spell out exactly what kind of financial/economic pain could be put on Iran and make it very public and repeat it often?
Posted by: Mark at October 02, 2006 01:53 PM (iifjJ)
7
I had been wondering for a while if Iran had been over-reaching - unlike the press that only speculates (or asserts) that the US is stretched too far.
http://miserabledonuts.blogspot.com/2006/08/iranian-overstretch.html
Posted by: Major John at October 02, 2006 02:22 PM (krump)
8
Iran will crumble to the waves of democracy as the megatrends of Democracy catch up with it. It is inevitable.
Just sit back and watch the events unfold.
Posted by: Tudalu at October 02, 2006 02:28 PM (IJedl)
9
Hmmm.
The area just accross the river from Basra is primarily Arab. If that province were to seceed from Iran, we could recognize it as a legitimate democratic state. It would be aproximately the same size and posess similar oil wealth as Kuwait.
If Iran keeps trying to cause Iraq to break up into ethnic enclaves, the problem will be to get Turkey to agree to an independant Kurdish state. My modest proposal would be for Turkey to deport its Kurds into the new Kurdistan and to guarantee the right of Kurdistan to expand all the way to the Caspian. After all, those Kurds will need Lebensraum.
Posted by: Mark in Texas at October 02, 2006 10:21 PM (RjwXP)
10
Boy, I wish I could have read your whole post underneath that Comcast ad.
Posted by: Not Tony at October 03, 2006 02:50 PM (f344u)
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