Confederate Yankee
May 08, 2007
Six Arrested in New Jersey Islamic Terror Plot
Via WNBC.com:
Six men from New Jersey have been arrested in an alleged terror plot against soldiers at Fort Dix, according investigators.
Investigators said the men planned to use automatic weapons to enter Fort Dix and kill as many soldiers as they could at the N.J. base. Fort Dix was just one of several military and security locations allegedly scouted by this group, authorities said.
[snip]
The six suspects arrested Monday night will face terror conspiracy charges. Three of the men are brothers, all believed to be islamic radicals. Authorities have told Newschannel 4 that some of the men were born in Albania and the former Yugoslavia. Investigators said most of the suspects have spent several years here in the U.S.
According to
WPVI, the six men attempted to purchase fully automatic AK-47s from an arms dealer working with the FBI.
WABC describes the six men as all being ethnic Albanians. Their immigration status was not clear from news accounts.
WCAU notes that the men traveled from South Jersey to the Pocano mountains "to practice firing automatic weapons." If accurate, this means that investigators allowed the men to obtain the fully automatic AK-47s before affecting an arrest.
CBS News states that this was a "homegrown" terror plot, and that there were no known ties to any international terror organization, including al Qaeda.
The New Jersey
Star-Ledger presents perhaps the most comprehensive account to date, which confirms that the attack busted in the planning stages was an intended act of jihad, that the men were arrested while attempting to purchase the AK-47s from the FBI informant dealer, and that the men
did not practice with automatic weapons in the Poconos, but instead, used paintball guns and other "real weapons."
The
Star-Ledger also shows that while the men may not have been part of an international terror cell, they were certainly inspired by al Qaeda:
The would-be attackers, ethnic Albanians who had been under surveillance by the FBI for months, practiced by shooting paintball guns and real weapons in a rural area of the Poconos, one source said. They also allegedly watched jihadist videos in which Osama bin Laden urged them toward martyrdom.
"They were prepared to die," said the law enforcement source. "We became increasingly convinced this was for real and these guys were ready to roll."
The FBI had the group under surveillance for more than a year, the source said. The men had scouted out Dover Air Force Base and Fort Monmouth before settling on Fort Dix, a base that is used to mobilize troops to Iraq, said the source.
The men - several of whom were in the same family - had videotaped their practice sessions in the Poconos, the source said. That videotape, in which they railed against America, led to their arrests.
The men made the mistake of bringing it to a retail store, seeking to get a copy burned to a DVD, according to one of the sources. A store employee who later watched the tape called the FBI who began immediately investigating.
The one question I have about the above
Star-Ledger account is perhaps a quibble, but something I'd like to have cleared up; did they watch a generally addressed martyrdom video extolling Muslims towards jihad, or as this account states, did they watch a video urging
them towards martyrdom? I suspect the former, as if the latter is the case, it would seem to prove a direct al Qaeda link.
Note that the Islamists here were anything but intelligent, bringing their homegrown jihadi video to a retail store to burn it to DVD, where a concerned and alert employee contacted the FBI, which launched the investigation.
I hope President Bush will quietly award a
Presidential Medal of Freedom to both the video store employee and the gun dealer for their roles in helping break up this attack in the planning stages.
Update: Heh. Did the tip come from Tony Soprano?
Update: Allah is tracking this story at well over at
Hot Air.
Update: CNN reports that one of the suspects was Jordanian and another was Turkish, with the rest being Yugoslavian.
The
Washington Post adds that the suspects have lived in the United States for "several years."
CBS3 provides more detail on the suspects:
Sources said the suspects included:
- Three brothers from Yugoslavia who came to the country illegally and were living in Cherry Hill.
- A Yugoslavian native who was living legally in Williamstown.
- A Turkey native who was arrested in the 2100 block of Tremont Street in Philadelphia
- A Jordan National living in Pennsauken who was working as a cab driver. He was taken into custody while in his cab at the Philadelphia International Airport.
Officials said the men attempted to purchase AK-47s from an arms dealer secretly cooperating with law enforcement agents.
Sources said the suspects trained for the plot in an area near Routes 30 and 380 in the Poconos. The suspects apparently had maps and had done surveillance on Fort Dix in preparation for the plot.
If the CBS3 account is correct, at least three of the six plotters were here illegally, and all were here for a least a year, if not several years.
Update: I formally move that we call this the "
Duka, Duka, Mohammed Jihad."
Update: A total of
ten men were seen on the video that launched the investigation, as reported in this document obtained by The Smoking Gun.
Update: A sampling of liberal blog reaction: The Agonist: "...when are these insignificant cases going to stop being blown out of proportion?"
Talking Points Memo: "It's always hard for me to see how these aren't as serious as they appear. But there is a record."
Middle Earth Journal: "This will probably turn out to be another José Padilla moment but it will be good for a lot of ape like chest pounding by the wingnut islamophobes."
Mahablog: "The basic story is that six Islamic radicals were planning to attack Fort Dix and kill soldiers as part of a jihad against America. This is what the Department of Justice is saying, anyhow, so take that with a grain of salt."
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
07:52 AM
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1
They sound a lot like the "youths" that have been Molotov Cocktailing buildings and burning cars in France the last 3 years.
Posted by: Rodney A Stanton at May 08, 2007 08:20 AM (bxDu4)
2
"CBS News states that this was a "homegrown" terror plot, and that there were no known ties to any international terror organization, including al Qaeda."
Maybe. Maybe not.
Copy cat killers. Spontaneous. Unpredictable. Stupid. That analysis is most disturbing.
Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at May 08, 2007 08:30 AM (Cy7OH)
3
Think about the fact that our intervention in Eastern Europe probably allowed them to live as they were close to extermination by the governments at the time. So much for thanks.
Also, they will likely sue the video store.
Posted by: David Caskey at May 08, 2007 09:08 AM (G5i3t)
4
These were not home grown terrorists. These were jihadists bent on the destruction of the American soldier. In other words they were democrats. I can hardly believe that the way our congress is acting that they didn't believe that they would be rewarded for their diligence. Wake up America and smell the blood of our patriots. We fight or we die. capc
Posted by: capc at May 08, 2007 09:09 AM (HmWWn)
5
Just a note on CBS3's coverage - There is no Route 30 in the Poconos.
Posted by: fezziwig at May 08, 2007 09:16 AM (MV0nA)
6
I wonder how the media will try to do damage control to the stereotype that all gun dealers are unscrupulous redneck nut jobs that will sell to any jihadi, disgruntled postman, or bullied sociopathic teen.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at May 08, 2007 09:33 AM (oC8nQ)
7
I know, let's outlaw paintball guns! That'll stop 'em for sure! Imagine, CAIR and the NRA taking the same side in a lawsuit. I linked from my 2007.05.08 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup.
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 08, 2007 09:57 AM (n7SaI)
8
You cannot buy automatic weapons in the U.S. unless you are Federally liscensed.
Posted by: dan in michigan at May 08, 2007 09:58 AM (uSI6F)
9
Speaking of stereotypes, why is it that every gun dealer always has a back room or hidden compartment where he keeps all sorts of banned or military weapons like hand grenades, missile launchers, machine guns and series 4 decarbonizers.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at May 08, 2007 10:34 AM (oC8nQ)
10
"These were not home grown terrorists. These were jihadists bent on the destruction of the American soldier. In other words they were democrats. "
you are sick and paranoid, and a fascist to boot.
you do not deserve your freedom.
Posted by: jvf at May 08, 2007 11:36 AM (XhY69)
11
And how was this plot broken? By applying good, old-fashioned law enforcement techniques -- not torture or intrusive electronic surveillance.
Posted by: Phranqlin at May 08, 2007 11:41 AM (WLhBy)
12
I love how the press is pointing out that some of these creeps were born in the "former Yugoslavia" rather than say what they are: ethnic albanians from Kosovo. I noticed that the description of them as such has been changed...perhaps in an attempt for the reading public to equate them with the Serbs rather than the scumbag, terrorist albanians (that we mistakenly and stupidly assisted back in '9

. It's disgraceful!
Posted by: nin at May 08, 2007 12:04 PM (XcZy7)
13
A couple of disturbing comments above are worth noting, particularly the comment by "capc" equating Democrats with jihadists, and the comment left by "jvf" that labeled "capc" a fascist, only to turn around and make the fascist comment that "capc" doesn't deserve his freedoms.
I'm not sure which comment is more disturbing.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 08, 2007 12:35 PM (9y6qg)
14
CY: The Left, as always, is in league with genocidal maniacs who want to destroy America. Rosie O'Donnel, Steny Hoyer, Nanci Pelosi, Olympia Snowe, Katrina Van Den Heuvel, Walter Durranty, Alger Hiss, Norman Thomas, Gore Vidal George McGovern; they all sided with those dedicated to committing genocide, whether they be Communists, Jihadists, Yippies, or Nazis. Calling them on this is the duty of us all, rather than keeping up false niceties that there isn't a huge 5th column in this country and in the corridors of power.
The Democrats are aligned with jihadis to advance their ends at home, deny that we face any threat, and claim that the entire struggle against Islamism is a racist/paranoid fantasy. They truly are adhering to our enemies and there is nothing disturbing or wrong with saying it.
Posted by: Hey at May 08, 2007 01:04 PM (E9xh0)
15
CY, props on trying to keep the name-calling on this board down to a minimum.
Democrats, with Republicans, both fought against communism during the cold war. Ask JFK, LBJ, etc. Democrats may not have been zealous blowhards like McCarthy and his followers, but that's probably a good thing.
And what genocide did the Democrats specifically side with? You can accuse Clinton for not doing enough during Rwanda, that's for sure, but I really can't think of a time when the Democrats were all like “Yo, you know what’s cool? The systematic destruction of an oppressed ethnic group. Yeah, THAT'S cool.”
Posted by: dmarek at May 08, 2007 02:42 PM (pP/fk)
16
"The Left, as always, is in league with genocidal maniacs who want to destroy America."
I think you forgot your medication again, Hey.
Maybe it's under your tinfoil hat.
Posted by: Angryflower at May 08, 2007 03:39 PM (Bss6w)
17
This is one more example why I can not stand moon god worshipping POS, and the State Department allowing any old moon god worshipper into this country.
Look at France, and England if you want to see our future. It is a fight to the death, and I suggest we all get ready. That includes lefturds, but I bet they will just get in the way.
ROPMA
Posted by: Leatherneck at May 08, 2007 04:19 PM (ZOc4K)
18
The dems visiting syria,claiming the war is lost.Shortage of vehicles nat guard can't help disaster areas clean-up,VT massacre,GOPs now threatening GW if there is no visible improvment in Iraq.6 arrested for trying to kill US military personel is there no end!Our gov. can't even send money to our brothers in harms way for vehicles,and the proper gear to protect themselves,without setting time lines and pork bellies!We can't even decide how to guard our own borders without riots,or sending nat guard to help with no bullets or orders not to shoot!Nobody in either party can decide what side of the fence they want to stand on.They voted for the war now maybe I was lied to so now I won't let them have any money to finish the job we satrted!I cannot imagine the message this political mess is sendingto our troops.I know the insurgency,iranians,syrians,al-qaeda,jihadists are all eating this up!The only thing we can be sure of is our soldiers are turning this thing around,their whooping ass,taking the fight to the scumbags in afghanistan and iraq with or without the best gear,vehicles etc..and without the 110 percent support from the american people and the politicians!So at the end of all your rants give our brothers in harms way a big oooooorrrrraaaaahhhh!!! Semper Fi
Posted by: referman at May 08, 2007 04:53 PM (1WnDa)
19
I wouldn't not include George McGovern in citing extreme leftwingers out to harm America, although he was wrong on Vietnam. He was a B24 pilot in WWII and bombed the Ploesti oil fields, the most heavily defended area under Nazi control. For this alone he dwesrves praise, not ridicule.
Posted by: Frank Dukes at May 08, 2007 05:41 PM (eUB0a)
20
One thing we can all agree on is when the troops do come home, they are gonna be EXTREMELY pissed off. And they should be.
Posted by: Justin at May 08, 2007 10:55 PM (NiTuu)
21
BEHEAD THEM!!
(and any LIB that repeats the 'religion of peace" crap again..)
Posted by: WALKER at May 09, 2007 11:45 AM (bNtSQ)
22
Got THAT off my chest...
In a more serious thought, isn't it time we have an open discussion as to whether allowing large numbers of muslims into our country is a good thing?
Yes I know most are good people, yada, yada. But if 5% are not, and you let a million in, that is 50,000 bad people. Also disturbingly obvious to see in Europe of second and third generation Europe-born muslims being radicalized.
Can we at least hold the discussion without the left shreiking we are hate filled fascists?
Can we agree to restrict the most hate filled of Imams coming here or teaching in our prisons?
Can we agree to deport swiftly muslims here illegally? (such as the 3 here).
Truth is, many of us don't view Islam as a religion, it is a socio-political movement, and a fascist, sexist, homophobic and murderous one at that.
Posted by: WALKER at May 09, 2007 11:57 AM (bNtSQ)
23
My LAST comment, promise (unless anyone wants a reply)
Consider two scenarios that could easily have happened:
- The clerk never provided the tip, and this tragedy occurred (I've been to Fort Dix, virtually all the soldiers there are unarmed.)
- Prior to that, one or more of the 3 illegal aliens was pulled over for a traffic violation, or some other minor civil event brought him into contact with authorities. Consider the practice of New Jersey and other liberal states & localities (the noble sounding "sanctuary cities") NOT to establish a person's citizenship for routine traffic or criminal violations. They would have been let go. Just as political correctness let one or more of the 9/11 hijackers go after a traffic stop.
We WILL suffer attacks like this planned one at FT Dix, and worse, until we as a country wise up (and grow up).
Posted by: WALKER at May 09, 2007 12:07 PM (bNtSQ)
24
Ok why noone in the world don't have curage to say that thise guys r Albanians from KOSOVO?!?!?
Posted by: watcher at May 09, 2007 05:00 PM (Bpthw)
25
Ok why noone in the world don't have curage to say that thise guys r Albanians from KOSOVO?!?!?
Posted by: iam at May 09, 2007 05:01 PM (Bpthw)
26
To all you serbs here and antialbanians i will tell you one thing: we will never lay a hand on any american in the name of religion or whatever.Those dimwits that we are talking about are not albanians,they were born in macedonia and migrated to the states when they were very young so they dont have any albanian feelings.From more info that we get on the news these guys got 2 grams of brains.We all know what serbs think of the US after all serbia was the one backing up saddam during his reign with weapons and god knows what.USA was,is and will always be the Albanians second motherland no matter where they are.
Posted by: FreeKosova at May 12, 2007 11:10 PM (DtKs4)
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May 07, 2007
Kathleen Sebelius' Political Disaster
Our hearts go out to those in Greensburg, Kansas who have lost family members and friends as a result of this natural disaster. If you know of displaced survivors who have yet to contact their loved ones, or wish to contribute to disaster relief, please contact the American Red Cross.
* * *
I wonder just how accurate this headline is:
Iraq War Hampers Kansas Cleanup.
The rebuilding effort in tornado-ravaged Greensburg, Kansas, likely will be hampered because some much-needed equipment is in Iraq, said that state’s governor.
Governor Kathleen Sebelius said much of the National Guard equipment usually positioned around the state to respond to emergencies is gone. She said not having immediate access to things like tents, trucks and semitrailers will really handicap the rebuilding effort.
The Greensburg administrator estimated that 95 percent of the town of 1500 was destroyed by Friday's tornado.
The Kansas National Guard has about 40 percent of the equipment it is allotted because much of it has been sent to Iraq.
It is true, as Marc Danziger
notes, that Gov. Kathleen Sebelius said just weeks ago
that:
...she fears deployments of Kansas National Guard troops and equipment could hurt the state’s ability to react to disasters on the homefront.
In the same
KCBS article cited above, Kansas Rep. Lee Tafanelli (R), a member of the Kansas National Guard, notes that that Kansas Army National Guard still retained 70-80 percent of its manpower.
If the figures provided by the Democratic governor and the Republican State rep and Guardsman are correct, the Army National Guard in Kansas still retains 40%-50% of their heavy equipment and 70%-80% of their manpower, which should be more than adequate to handle geographically narrow and isolated events such as the Greensburg tornado and others that hit Kansas this past Friday.
But please, don't take my word for it. Listen to what the state adjutant general
had to say:
"We've been over the town twice now — all of our partners around the state, the experts from cities with technical search-and-rescue," Maj. Gen. Todd Bunting, the state's adjutant general, told CNN Monday morning. "We've done everything we can.
"Some of this rubble is 20, 30 feet deep. That's where we've spent all our efforts, and we'll do it again today."
As Maj. Gen. Bunting notes, they've already been over Greensburg twice, and they are going through the destroyed town of 1,500 again.
While it was no doubt comforting to have the additional manpower and equipment from the National Guard available, it is the state and local emergency personnel with trained search-and-rescue experts that are our best resources for this and similar situations.
Despite an inaccurate claim made by Sebelius
on CNN, National Guard soldiers are
not first responders, and they never have been. National Guardsmen can
only be called to duty in
governor-declared states of emergency, or federally, by presidential order.
Our first responders were, and remain, our local and state police, fire, and rescue units. The National Guard is now, and has always been, a reserve force.
Despite the reduction of certain kinds of National Guard equipment in state armories, I suspect that the personnel and equipment that remain at Gov. Sebelius' disposal is more than sufficient to handle the effort at hand. On some level, she seems to agree. Of thousands of National Guardsmen available, she has apparently deployed
just 110.
It seems apparent that her anti-war
pronouncements and
appointments have as much to do with her claims as does any actually shortfall of equipment, and I suspect her words have as much to do with Sebelius'
political hopes as it does the reality of Greenburg's battered ground.
Update: Reality bites...
for Sebelius, that is:
Pentagon officials are disputing claims that the Iraq war has spread National Guardsmen too thin to respond to a Kansas tornado after the governor and some Democratic lawmakers complained that the Guard are not equipped to help displaced residents.
Kansas has 88 percent of its state Guard forces available, and 83,000 Guardsmen from neighboring states are also on the ready should the state request their assistance, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said Tuesday, citing National Guard Bureau statistics.
According to Whitman, the Kansas Guard have available 352 Humvees, 94 cargo trucks, 72 dump trucks, 62 five-ton trucks, 13 medium-haul trucks and trailers and 152 2 1/2-ton trucks, a surplus, he noted.
How many of the Kansas National Guard's available 83,000+ men, 393 trucks and 352 Humvees would be required in a town of 1,500?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:30 PM
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1
Prayers and best wishes for Greensburg and surrounding areas hit by the recent wicked weather.
I DO wish elected officials would resist the temptation to turn something like this into a chance to take a political jab.
Florida and the Gulf coast have lots of volunteers and donated equipment and material after hurricanes. No doubt Kansas will see similar help over the next couple of weeks. Why doesn't that get a mention from the pols?
Posted by: Retread at May 07, 2007 03:45 PM (mtsTe)
2
give Sebelius her due she has don a lot for the state of kansas but she has always been a lib hack and will always toe the party line no mater what
Posted by: Rich at May 07, 2007 03:48 PM (EblDJ)
3
Many prayers and well wishes go out to those poor folks devasted by this disaster. Go here to help:
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/www_usn.nsf
A ray of hope: Survivor found in ruble.
http://kmbz-am.fimc.net/listingsEntry.asp?ID=497588&PT=Top+Story
This guy (a storm chaser) was one of the first on the scene to offer help. His passenger took some heart wrenching pictures.
http://www.blownawaytours.us/
As for Kathy (Oz) Sebelius, she's riding her broom on this tragic wind to her 15 minutes of political infamy. Notice how quick CNN picked up on the bush bashing from this witch and her distortions?
Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at May 07, 2007 05:00 PM (Cy7OH)
4
On the ABC Radio news today, someone used the analogy of a burning house. "If your house was burning down, would you want to hear that half the fire department was unavailable?"
Unfortunately, this is not an apt analogy. The primary mission of the fire department is to fight fires in its jurisdiction. The primary mission of the National Guard is as a reserve force for the US Armed Forces.
Just because the Governor occasionally gets to use the NG for some rescue or cleanup detail doesn't mean that that is why it exists.
A better analogy would be if the fire department was also used to clean up the local parks. One day, someone notices the trash cans in the park hadn't been emptied. Upon questioning, it turns out the fire department was too busy fighting fires to empty those cans. "If your house was burning down, would you want to hear that the fire department was too busy emptying trash cans to respond?" "If you were at war, would you want to here that the NG was too busy cleaning up after a tornado to man the lines?"
Posted by: DrTony at May 07, 2007 09:14 PM (QEqo2)
5
Even IF there were less equipment than was needed, the worst that can be said is that civilians, somewhere, at some point, may have to sacrifice something for the war. That's not a new concept, nor is it something that should be used to undermine the war.
What happened to our country?
Posted by: DoorHold at May 07, 2007 09:34 PM (PDBzF)
6
The Florida guard did little other than supply security after Andrew. Cleanup/rebuilding isn't their mission, nor should it be.
This woman is whacked in the head.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 08, 2007 12:20 AM (0mhB9)
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Gee whiz, Bob. Can't an honest Dhimmicrat ever get a fair shake around here? I mean, like, if Chimpy McHitlerburton hadn't repealed that Kyoto thingy there wouldn't have been a tornado to begin with. Ain't that right, Kathleen?
I added an excerpt and link to my 2007.05.08 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup.
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 08, 2007 12:34 AM (n7SaI)
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Don't blame me, I didn't vote for her.
Prayers for Greensburg.
Posted by: lurking in kansas at May 08, 2007 09:30 AM (6yHgW)
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it sounds like every single governor is worried about lack of equipment.
http://www.nga.org/portal/site/nga/menuitem.cb6e7818b34088d18a278110501010a0/?vgnextoid=0efa555e19139010VgnVCM1000001a01010aRCRD
Posted by: mark c at May 08, 2007 12:12 PM (qQvqI)
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here is a shorter link:
http://tinyurl.com/2kun6b
also, i didn't think you linked to wikipedia
Posted by: mark c at May 08, 2007 12:15 PM (qQvqI)
11
15 out of 19 Kansas National Guard Helicopters are in Iraq (that's 85%). In many states with rural populations, the National Guard is relied upon to evacuate injured persons to hospitals via chopper. What is the response time for an ambulance to that area in Kansas, an hour? two? more?
Although the NG may have 40-60% of it's total equipment it is lacking much higher percentages of specific vital equipment-- such as helicopters, troop transport vehicles, and heavy tractor trailers.
What if we are attacked on our home soil now? Are we prepared? Are you ready to hear, sorry we can't defend the homeland because we are busy in the middle east? This really scares me and it should you but you're too busy thinking politics to think practicality.
My friends in the NG say "god forbid we get attacked on our own soil because we're gonna look like 100 clowns trying to climb out of a VW bug, rolling up to face the enemy". Where they are stationed, they usually have some 30 troop transport vehicles, currently they have 2-- they pray every day that nothing happens because they know they can't respond.
FYI: The National Guard seems to think that disaster preparedness, response, and recovery are all part of their mission-- http://www.ngb.army.mil/features/disasterprep/default.aspx
Their own recruiting website states "Most likely, your assignments will be somewhere within your home state, because the Guard's main focus is assisting in civil disturbances and natural disasters like blizzards, wildfires and hurricanes. Your tasks will include getting people to safety, delivering supplies, restoring order and other jobs as directed."
Or, "When our nation is in peril due to natural disasters, civil disturbances or enemy threats, the Army National Guard’s Citizen-Soldiers stand proud, trained and ready to protect Americans border to border, coast to coast and around the world.
Also, as of yesterday, according to the National Guard, over 300 Kansas National Guardsmen were called to respond.
Although I may support your cause, it seems to me with your selective quoting and misinformation, you are doing exactly what it is you accuse the gov'ner of-- making political hay out of what should be a very serious issue.
Posted by: jenn at May 08, 2007 01:18 PM (1aad4)
Posted by: Robert at May 08, 2007 01:42 PM (EUwSo)
13
Other state NG units can be requested, (and for big stuff they are) and surrounding communities usually have Mutual Aid agreements and will be there.
And one quibble - there is a Federal first-response agency: the US Coast Guard (but I doubt they have much of a SAR presence in Kansas).
Posted by: Mikey NTH at May 08, 2007 04:37 PM (B26Fg)
14
In many states with rural populations, the National Guard is relied upon to evacuate injured persons to hospitals via chopper.
Actually, no, they don't.
National Guard units don't keep scramble teams on hand to fly out and rescue people. Even the most "rural" states have many helicopters, run by private ambulance services, to do helicopter evacs. Kansas has at least three different companies that do helicopter air evac 24/7, and a couple of them also do fixed-wing evacs (small airfields are scattered all over the country, if you know where to look).
When the patient is anywhere near a good highway, it's usually better to get them into a good fast ambulance with a full load of gear, anyway. Air evac is seldom a first choice. In a case like Greensburg, they tend to send the Red Cross doctors out to the site, rather than rely on evacsuation (in stormy weather, helicopters aren't good for damaged people).
Posted by: cirby at May 08, 2007 08:38 PM (ZMgaW)
15
Dr. Tony,
Stop giving half information
From the National Guard's Home Page
The National Guard has a unique dual mission that consists of both Federal and State roles. For state missions, the governor, through the state Adjutant General, commands Guard forces. The governor can call the National Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, fires, earthquakes or civil disturbances.
The Army National Guard's state mission is perhaps the most visible and well known. Nearly everyone has seen or heard of Guard units responding to battle fires or helping communities deal with floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, snowstorms or other emergency situations. In times of civil unrest, the citizens of a state can rest assured that the Guard will be ready to respond, if needed.
Posted by: DrTony's Concious at May 08, 2007 09:36 PM (tEvVi)
16
After spending a time in the National Guard, I came to understand that we were primarily a standby force to aid the full time military. WWII and Korea were prime examples. But of course that was a time of 'Common Sense' in the USA. The State was the second mission and we did provide security as mentioned in a previous post. We were also the first to be blamed when something did not go as the Liberal Media desired.
The latest trend by the Liberal factions are to ban the recruitment of any military in schools across the nation. To their credit, 'The Fly Over', as the elite west and East coast call middle America, is bucking that unreal trend. Please tell me where that leaves the State in a case of true emergency if, as the politically motivated declare, the National Guards main pupose is?
The 'Liberal' factions aways plentiful Lawyers, would like to legally neuter all police, have the National Guard only for cleanup details, and lastly kick back and have another 'Utopia Latte'.
http://daflikkers.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Blogengeezer at May 08, 2007 10:38 PM (PIJWX)
17
"15 out of 19 Kansas National Guard Helicopters are in Iraq (that's 85%). In many states with rural populations, the National Guard is relied upon to evacuate injured persons to hospitals via chopper. What is the response time for an ambulance to that area in Kansas, an hour? two? more?"
LOL. We poor folk in rural Kansas ain't heard of no motorized ambulances have we?
Lordy...please know what you are talking about before you talk about 'that area in Kansas'. You sound like an idiot.
Posted by: Paul at May 09, 2007 03:52 AM (HpmwJ)
18
Kathleen Sebelius is an embarassment to our state. She needs to get her own office in order and follow protocol in a disaster situation instead of criticizing our President and our troops.
Posted by: BETTY at May 09, 2007 08:03 AM (ZQxiI)
19
I expect no better from a Democrat governor these days, but it really steamed me to have her pathetic assertion repeated as the factual headline of the story: not in quotations, not prefaced by 'Gov. claims' or 'Gov. charges'.
I'm surprised the tornado wasn't hailed as another proof of global warming, while they were at it. Coulda tied up two hissyfits in one tantrum.
Posted by: R. Minor at May 09, 2007 08:03 AM (XKyoF)
20
Over at "In From the Cold," we've been on this story from Day One; fact is, Governor Sebelius has been using this as a political issue from the start.
Consider yesterday's op-ed in the Wichita Eagle, by Kansas Senator Pat Roberts. When Senator Roberts spoke with President Bush on Saturday afternoon--almost 24 hours after the storm--Mr. Bush said the only thing he needed for a disaster declaration was a request from the Kansas governor. So, after getting off the phone with the President, Senator Roberts called Sebelius and told her to submit the request. Why did the governor have to wait until Roberts made a phone call? Did she lose the number for the White House, or perhaps her cell service doesn't cover Washington D.C. I find it appalling that Sebelius was already criticizing the federal response when she hadn't bothered to request a disaster declaration.
Additionally, her claims about equipment shortages are misleading. As both DoD and the Guard Bureau stated yesterday, the Kansas Guard has its full allotment of heavy equipment--the stuff you need to clear rubble and haul it away. They also noted that Kansas officials have yet to request outside assistance under the compact that allows them to "borrow" equipment and resources from neighboring states. If the situation was a dire as the governor described, why wasn't her Adjutant General on the horn to the Guard Bureau and his counterparts in Oklahoma, Missouri and Nebraska, requesting additional equipment and manpower?
And, there's the issue of DoD resources within Kansas that could be (potentially) tapped through the Pentagon and the White House. McConnell AFB in Wichita has its own civil engineering squadron, complete with heavy construction equipment, trucks, generators, and hundreds of trained personnel. To my knowledge, all of those resources are still sitting at McConnell. Ditto for the Army assets at Fort Riley and Fort Leavenworth.
From my perspective, Sebelius is a feckless political hack--even worse that Louisiana's Kathleen Blanco. Even before Katrina slammed ashore, it was obvious that Blanco was in over her head; she faced a catastrophe of enormous proportions, something that she was totally unprepared for. Of course, Blanco played the "blame Washington" card, but the citizens of Louisiana saw through that--a big reason her poll numbers plummeted, and she decided not to run for re-election.
By comparison, Governor Sebelius faced a crisis of managable proportions, but she decided to play politics instead of requesting a disaster declaration in the early hours of the Greensburg disaster. But, she did succeed in reviving the "Katrina" template for the Democratic Party, and that appears to have been her top priority. And I have nothing but contempt for a governor who puts party talking points and coverage themes above the welfare of her own citizens. Sebelius should be thankful that she's not facing re-election in 2008.
More posts on this topic:
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2007/05/politics-of-natural-destruction.html
http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2007/05/blanco-school-of-crisis-management.html
Posted by: Spook86 at May 09, 2007 08:09 AM (8Pv/P)
21
How predictable, to watch your LIB Gov roll out her " New Orleans whine" routine---"that ol DUBYA did it again"
Want some cheese with that ,darlin ?
Posted by: Don at May 09, 2007 08:11 AM (69ZMR)
22
A minor point, but 15 of 19 is just under 79 percent, not 85 percent as jenn claimed.
Posted by: Peg3n8 at May 09, 2007 08:43 AM (htMMr)
23
She would be well advised to keep her mouth shut. Gov Kathleen Blanco can't get elected to dog catcher here in La.
FWIW-The Katrina debacle was Louisiana's fault with Kathleen Blanco not leading the way.
Posted by: roux at May 09, 2007 11:15 AM (c/0dB)
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IED Explodes, Kills One in... Vegas?
Let hope that what happens here, stays here:
One man was killed and another person escaped injury Monday in an explosion of a small device left atop a vehicle outside a Las Vegas Strip resort, authorities said.
Police said the blast was not a terrorist act, but an apparent murder of a hotel employee.
"We believe the victim of this event was the intended target," said Officer Bill Cassell, a Las Vegas police spokesman, who called the victim an employee of the Luxor hotel-casino. The person who narrowly escaped injury was also a hotel employee, Cassell said.
I'm admittedly late to this story, and rather thankful I am, otherwise, I might have erroneously reported with other media and bloggers the apparent pre-mature detonation of a backpack bomber. I don't hold any of the bloggers commenting on this case responsible for the erroneous reporting, which seems to be a case of the professional media once again trying to rush out a story before actually having the facts of the incident verified.
This was, if the second round of reports is accurate (and the second round of reporting is
generally more accurate than the first, if still often imperfect), most likely a targeted assassination, and not a terrorist with a case of premature detonation.
Using explosives is a rather rare method of carrying out an assassination, precisely due to the threat of unwanted collateral damage.
The
KTLA account of the detonation linked by
Allah is particularly frightening if accurate, in that it describes the device detonating as the apparent target attempted to move it.
It could be that the device was command-detonated and that the bomber chose that exact moment to detonate the bomb, but the other possibility is that the bomb had a motion-activated trigger. This means that
anyone else who may have attempted to move a device so armed (from a hotel security officer to an opportunistic thief, to a "good Sam") could have been killed.
I've sent in an info request to the ATF Arson and Explosives Division seeking clarification of what kind of trigger they have recovered, but considering that the answer would reveal part of an on-going investigation, I don't anticipate any sort of a response.
Update: Averill P. Graham, US DOJ, writes back this morning to state that the correct way of requesting information is a dead-tree FOIA request. Frankly, I'm not that interested.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I don't hold any of the bloggers commenting on this case responsible for the erroneous reporting, which seems to be a case of the professional media once again trying to rush out a story before actually having the facts of the incident verified.
Is there anything you won't blame on the media?
Posted by: jpe at May 07, 2007 07:20 PM (+rmhC)
2
I've sent in an info request to the ATF Arson and Explosives Division seeking clarification of what kind of trigger they have recovered, but considering that the answer would reveal part of an on-going investigation, I don't anticipate any sort of a response.
At least you tried. That's more than I can say for most of the rest of us.
btw, what's the number for ATF Arson and Explosives Division? I've got a few questions I'd like to run by them, and it's not in my phone book.
thx,
edub
Posted by: edub at May 07, 2007 09:32 PM (SwNFl)
3
You got a better chance of seeing Elvis in a 7-11 than getting anything out of BATF. If that office is anything like the one in Miami, they'll be about as helpful as a screen door in a submarine.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 08, 2007 12:22 AM (0mhB9)
4
Let's see - Las Vegas - Isn't there a more likely perpetrator of this act than Jihadists, even if the hotel is called the "Luxor"?
Posted by: sj at May 08, 2007 09:18 AM (qDGap)
5
Oh, *do* let us know the results of your reporting!
Posted by: Benj at May 08, 2007 01:24 PM (IwiEe)
Posted by: Bill at May 13, 2007 08:23 AM (TQQqc)
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May 05, 2007
Hack L.A. Times Reporter Smears Thompson
It's rather pathetic how Tina Duant of the Los Angeles Times attempted to label Fred Thompson a racist for playing the role of a white supremacist in a handful of episodes of a crappy television series 19 years ago. The concept of "acting" seems to slip her mind.
The
Times has been losing readership and credibility for years for junk articles like this. I'm glad their doing their best to help that trend continue.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Disparage someone because of a role they played, in L.-freakin'-A. of all places? A new low maybe?
Posted by: DoorHold at May 05, 2007 10:23 AM (fEnee)
2
WaPo reported today that is has lost 16% in revenue. Can we wonder why these things are happening?
Poor and biased reporting can not be the cause. Nope, not here in our press. (Goes away shaking his head with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
Posted by: CoRev at May 05, 2007 11:51 AM (0U8Ob)
3
Daunt is absolutely not saying what is being portrayed here. She asks a valid question for the dawning YouTube age:
"How does a performer eyeing a presidential run deal with a video history that can be downloaded, taken out of context, chopped into embarrassing pieces and then distributed endlessly though cyberspace?"
When she specifies that the videos will be "taken out of context" and "chopped into embarrassing pieces," she's underscoring the fact that these video clips do not and will not necessarily represent reality.
On-demand video clips are something new that has been thrown into the mix. Look at the Hilary/1984 video that got so much notoriety recently. The quote from Kaplan emphasizes this:
"The difference YouTube makes is that the networks, and the paid media campaigns, are no longer the gatekeepers of what clips get distributed."
Daunt is simply reporting on two things: a) a cultural phenomenon that will have an as-yet unknown effect on the coming electon, and b) chatter that has apparently already sprung up on the Internets.
She's not "disparaging" Thompson; rather, she's greasing the skids for him--the opposite of the way that the article is being portrayed here.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 05, 2007 01:05 PM (2gpUk)
4
Yeah, I'm with Doc on this one. Nowhere in that article does she call Thompson a racist. She's just saying that with YouTube, a bunch of people are going to start doing exactly that.
I know you're trying to prove this whole "liberal media bias," but your going way out on a limb with this one.
Posted by: dmarek at May 05, 2007 01:33 PM (v9k7i)
5
Yeah, I'm with Doc on this one.
Yet another of the signs of the coming Apocolypse.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 05, 2007 01:55 PM (2gpUk)
6
In the end I also gotta agree with Doc. She does wrap it up in the end sending the message that Doc was talking about, I think what raised the red flags is that, for the first half of the article, it seemed that she was just trying to arm the smear campaign she was "warning" against. She didn't really take the logical next step of noting the absurdity of smearing Thompson with his acting career.
Posted by: K-Det at May 06, 2007 08:58 AM (4N6AE)
7
I would have agreed with you Doc if it weren't for the fact that she only wrote in detail about Fred Thompson's role, highlighting the chars most racist comments. The comments themselves do not add to the story so why were they included? Playing the race card in LA? Pandering to base emotions in order to sell papers or instigate controversy? I don't know her motives but the addition of those comments served no positive role.
Given the large potion of hispanic readers how many do you suppose realized she was refering to a role Thompson played and not quoting Thompson directly?
Posted by: Barry at May 06, 2007 01:27 PM (C4uCu)
8
How many got past the headline?
Will Fred Thompson's racist role have political repercussions?
Posted by: SouthernRoots at May 06, 2007 04:30 PM (EsOdX)
9
Doc's right about the substance of the article, however, the important concept that SouthernRoots beat me to was the impact of a headline.
Fred Thompson and Racist are right next to each other in the headline. Six months from now the only thing that folks will remember is "Isn't Fred Thompson a racist?"
Posted by: brando at May 07, 2007 12:20 AM (rDQC9)
10
I do think the canard of a liberal media is a knee-jerk reaction that, at least with the Post and the Times (remember Judith Miller?), is a convenient way to refute anything you don't agree with, no matter what the true substance of the story. I'm not saying bias doesn't exist, it's just not the same media it was in the 70's.
As for a character being confused with character, I have a friend, Larry Peterson, who portrayed a racist in the movie CSA. When his employer, Time-Warner, got complaints from some loud-mouthed a-holes who confused acting with Larry's real-life views, Time Warner fired him. That was after Larry gave more than 20 years to the company.
Yes, America's corporations, standing up for their employees' rights.
Now, if you want to go up against unfettered corporate power in the US, I'm on board with that.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at May 07, 2007 09:32 AM (kxecL)
11
brando,
Remember when Bush said he was "the commander guy?" Well, that quote was taken out of context and what he was really saying was that he was the guy who listened to commanders. I know that because it's being reported in a lot of places.
Remember when Harry Reid said "the war is lost?" Well, that quote was taken out of context and what he was really saying was that if we continued to follow the president's policies, the war is lost. I've only seen that in one place.
So, to your point, six months from now people will only remember Harry Reid said the war was lost. That's the work of our liberal media.
Oh, and how much did John Edwards' haircut cost? Yeah, we all know, don't we.
Posted by: David Terrenoire at May 07, 2007 09:38 AM (kxecL)
12
I'm glad THEY'RE doing THEIR best.
"their" shows possession.
"they're" is a contraction of "they are"
I know you guys don't need all that book-learnin to know right from wrong, but come on.
Posted by: gurgleblast at May 08, 2007 02:11 PM (GQjjj)
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May 04, 2007
Because You Never Know When Global Warming Is Going to Fly Into a Building
A ship of fools, if ever there was one:
Senior House Republicans are complaining about Democrats' plans to divert "scarce" intelligence funds to study global warming.
The House next week will consider the Democrat-crafted Intelligence Authorization bill, which includes a provision directing an assessment of the effects that climate change has on national security.
"Our job is to steal secrets," said Rep. Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the ranking Republican on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
"There are all kinds of people analyzing global warming, the Democrats even have a special committee on this," he told The Washington Times. "There's no value added by the intelligence community here; they have no special expertise, and this takes money and resources away from other threats."
Democrats, who outnumber Republicans on the committee, blocked the minority from stripping the warming language from the bill.
Intelligence panel Chairman Silvestre Reyes, Texas Democrat, said the climate-change study is one of several shifts his party has made to intelligence policy.
"We're concerned that global warming might impact our ability to maintain national security," he told The Times, describing the idea as "cutting edge."
As
Ace notes, Reyes, the
chairman of Intelligence Panel, is the man that
doesn't know the difference between Shia and Sunni, or or which al Qaeda is, and had no clue
at all about the nature of Hezbollah.
Of course, he belong to a Democratic House whose Speaker
doesn't even know that al Qaeda is in Iraq, so that bit of incompetence is sadly par for the course.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:29 PM
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Polar bears are MUCH more advanced than we ever realized. They're perfecting flying iceberg technology at this very moment.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 04, 2007 04:55 PM (6UoPI)
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Idiots. I said we needed and intelligent debate about global warming
Posted by: Stephen Macklin at May 04, 2007 08:43 PM (Z3kjO)
3
Stupid Democrats, missing an opportunity to add "a provision to direct an assessment of the effects of " on National security.
What effect will Ethanol have on National security? We must fund this research at ANY cost!
What effect will socialized healthcare have on National security? Gun control? Etc.
And the thing is, they CANNOT lose their support! It can't happen. I don't know why, I can't explain it, but they just won't.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 05, 2007 10:32 AM (fEnee)
4
(A little HTML boo-boo there, "fill-in-the-current-religion" should be where a single quotation mark appears.)
Posted by: DoorHold at May 05, 2007 10:34 AM (fEnee)
5
Hey, I apologise in advance if this is a bit off topic. I was looking for a contact form on your site but didn't see one.
Anyway, a while back I got kind of pissed off flipping between the O'Rielly Factor and Democracy Now, not so much because the had such completely different views, but rather because they both claimed to be objective. So I started coding a website that would allow people to be called out on biased opinions, where the community would decide which ideas get the most recognition. Well, after 6 months of work, today I’m finally launching it: http://VocalNation.net
Anyway, I’m placing the control of this site, and control of the debate, largely in the hands of those who read this message. I'm starting things off by just picking a handful of conservative and liberal blogs to mention this to so that it will at least start off with a good balance of opinions from either side. I'm hoping that you could mention the site to your readers? After that, I guess it'll be the side with the strongest arguments that'll take control dictate what direction the conversation goes. May the best side win.
Also if you don't want this post on your site, could you please at least let me know so I can add another blogger in your place to keep it balanced to start off with?
Thanks - Tony
VocalNation.net
Posted by: Tony at May 05, 2007 08:11 PM (3x7Cl)
6
Bob, you have got to take these things more seriously! You do realize of course that big tornado in Kansas wouldn't have happened if Bush hadn't repealed the Kyoto treaty. Don't you? Of course you do. I added a link to my 2007.05.06 Dem Perfidy // Islamism Delenda Est Roundup
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 06, 2007 03:39 AM (n7SaI)
7
How about a study of the effects of the Democratic Party on national security?
Posted by: buddy larsen at May 06, 2007 05:14 PM (lCS93)
8
Reyes needs to know that the centuries old conflict between Shia and Sunni is actually the chief cause of global warming. A billion Muslims fuming and seething and spewing out all that hateful rhetoric is warming the planet.
Posted by: Zhombre at May 06, 2007 09:29 PM (MP8Dx)
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Lost War Updates
A. J. Strata reports that al Qaeda in Iraq has lost its second caliphate capital in recent months, first losing their stronghold in Ramadi, and now, their base in the Tahrir neighborhood of Baqouba.
The U.S. military has confirmed that
not one, but two senior al Qaeda commanders were killed north of Baghdad earlier this week.
Bill Roggio notes the
continued expansion of the Anbar Salvation Council, and notes that one of the original tribes that supported al Qaeda in Iraq has flipped and joined the war against the terrorists. Ten Sunni tribes have turned to war against al Qaeda in the last month alone.
And last but by no means least, Lawrence Kaplan notes what most of us have long known: Congressional Democrats approach the Iraq War from a position of
willful ignorance.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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While good news is good news, I have to wonder why it's taken four years to get to this point.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 05, 2007 10:36 AM (fEnee)
2
DoorHold, we had to wait for the Iraqi army to reach critical mass in size, training and finally ability.
Can't have a clear and hold strategy without the large number of troops. We never had enough. So, that strategy could not be pursued. Is that reason enough not to go into and then remaining in Iraq? Answering that question may be better left to more informed minds.
Posted by: CoRev at May 05, 2007 11:57 AM (0U8Ob)
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Virus Alert
Vast swathes of the Internet are mysteriously down today, affected by a peculiar virus specifically targeting keyboard drivers at university women's studies programs, academic journals, and certain political Web sites around the world. The virus corrupts specific DLLs and renders keyboards inoperable.
The virus appears to be emanating from a specific CNN.com Web server.
Computer users from these locations loose the ability to use their keyboards after viewing
this particular story, where al Qaeda terrorists attempted to turn a all-girls school under construction north of Baghdad into a giant bomb.
The virus, dubbed "Cognitive Diss," does not yet have a patch developed, though antivirus teams are said to be hard at work.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Am I missing a punchline? I find no information on this.
Posted by: mekan at May 04, 2007 12:45 PM (hm8tW)
2
Yep, you missed it, though it might be my ability to deliver satire is simply below par.
American feminists, if they were truly liberal, and truly feminist, should be outraged over the Islamist targeting of a girls school by al Qaeda.
The often violent oppression of women by radical Islam should be a natural intellectual battlefield for them, but their hatred of one man (Bush) far outweighs their support of millions of oppressed women, and so they sit, mouths wired shut.
This post was an satirical attempt to explain that not-really-feminist silence.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 04, 2007 01:02 PM (9y6qg)
3
I for one kind of welcome the silence at least they aren't blaming Bush for planting the bombs (yet). Of course they'll find some rethuglican-penis-wielding-womb butcher to blame, it's just a matter of time...
Posted by: phineas g. at May 04, 2007 01:19 PM (CQcil)
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I've done a complete scan and I'm clean.
Posted by: TourPro at May 04, 2007 01:46 PM (nPSMH)
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phineas g., they don't need to look any farther than President Bush. The line will be something like 'if he hadn't started this illegal war those poor freedom fighters wouldn't have had to plant bombs in a girls school to drive out the baby-killing American oppressors.' Ten to one Rosie is sputing something like that already.
Posted by: Retread at May 04, 2007 02:10 PM (mtsTe)
6
It only takes 4 days for CNN to pick up on a MNF-I press release I did a blog post on the day it came out.
Heh, I scooped CNN ;->
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 04, 2007 05:01 PM (6UoPI)
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Nah CY, you are on the nose. My attempt at the straight man, not that there is anything wrong with that, was a bit lame.
No information because the keyboards were broken due to the virus.
Posted by: mekan at May 04, 2007 07:35 PM (a8Oey)
Posted by: dmarek at May 05, 2007 01:37 PM (v9k7i)
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France Once Again Threatened By Vague Violence, People
Via Rueters:
On the last day of official campaigning, opinion polls showed Sarkozy enjoyed a commanding lead over Royal, who accused the former interior minister of lying and polarizing France.
"Choosing Nicolas Sarkozy would be a dangerous choice," Royal told RTL radio.
"It is my responsibility today to alert people to the risk of (his) candidature with regards to the violence and brutality that would be unleashed in the country (if he won)," she said.
Pressed on whether there would be actual violence, Royal said: "I think so, I think so," referring specifically to France's volatile suburbs hit by widespread rioting in 2005.
[snip]
At the start of her campaign, Royal refused to refer to her opponent, but with time running against her she has changed tactics and has relentlessly lambasted him this past week.
On Friday she said he had exacerbated social tensions during his time as interior minister and added that he was unable to enter some neighborhoods for fear of provoking violence. The suburbs were hit by widespread riots in 2005.
Wouldn't it help if we knew which groups Royal thought might riot, and the nature of the social tensions that would cause them to do so?
If they can't confront the problem enough to even mention who was rioting (primarily poorly assimilated North African Muslim youths) and why (economic hopelessness, cultural divides, among others), then they will never solve the underlying problems leading to this kind of behavior.
Get used to the idea of vague people starting riots for vague reasons in France for many years to come.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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Hmm, left blasting the right for no rational reason except to get more votes. Sounds familiar...
Posted by: Justin at May 04, 2007 02:15 PM (NiTuu)
2
She's desperate, so she's resorting to mudslinging in a last forlorn attempt to frighten people into voting for her. The french left has been doing that scare tactic for weeks now.
A socialist mate of mine came in the other day saying that if Sarko wins we're all in deep shit. I asked him what he was talking about. Seems he'd read some scary article in a left-leaning magazine about Sarkozy, painting him as some kind of neo-nazi. In reality they're not scared of Sarko, they're scared of the "youths'" reaction to him being elected.
One thing's for sure, just like the increased muslim violence in Thailand (since the putch that gave the country it's muslim PM) is "in spite of" having a muslim PM. Any violence in France, even if it decreases compared to previously, will be "because of" Sarkozy.
Posted by: Aylios at May 05, 2007 06:40 AM (vhrwS)
3
Here's who's rioting.
Unemployed economists.
Posted by: W.C. Varones at May 05, 2007 10:40 AM (nIMj7)
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Iraqi EFPS Prove to Be Duds; Iranian EFPs Still Lethal Threat
Several month's ago, Andrew Cockburn attacked President Bush and the United States military in the Los Angeles Times, for the President saying that the EFPs --explosively-formed penetrators--being used successfully against American military forces in Iraq with a great degree of effect came from Iran:
PRESIDENT BUSH HAS now definitively stated that bombs known as explosively formed penetrators — EFPs, which have proved especially deadly for U.S. troops in Iraq — are made in Iran and exported to Iraq. But in November, U.S. troops raiding a Baghdad machine shop came across a pile of copper disks, 5 inches in diameter, stamped out as part of what was clearly an ongoing order. This ominous discovery, unreported until now, makes it clear that Iraqi insurgents have no need to rely on Iran as the source of EFPs.
The truth is that EFPs are simple to make for anyone who knows how to do it. Far from a sophisticated assembly operation that might require state supervision, all that is required is one of those disks, some high-powered explosive (which is easy to procure in Iraq) and a container, such as a piece of pipe. I asked a Pentagon analyst specializing in such devices how much each one would cost to make. "Twenty bucks," he answered after a brief calculation. "Thirty at most."
Cockburn's venom and naked partisanship were obvious. What wasn't so obvious is that Cockburn didn't know what he was talking about.
While crude Iraqi machine shops can manufacture crude components, the EFPs they can manufacture are
no serious threat to American armor.
Iraqi fighters have been making their own versions of the weapons, but so far none has been effective against U.S. forces, Odierno said. The Iraqi-made projectiles, using brass and copper melted on stoves, have failed to fully penetrate U.S. armor and are more likely to be used against Iraqi forces, whose vehicles often have thinner armored protection than U.S. vehicles, U.S. military officials said.
"We have not seen a homemade one yet that's executed properly," Odierno said, adding that such weapons are not a major concern "as of yet."
In short, Cockburn's assertion that "EFPs are simple to make for anyone who knows how to do it," betrays his ignorance of the difference between theory and practice. Theoretically, anyone could presumably find plans to build an EFP, but without the right materials, training, and manufacturing equipment, they could not make an EFP with the capability of defeating advanced armor.
It is
not as simple to manufacture a competent EFP as Cockburn and others have mislead. Someone should alert the media, but then again, the majority of the media doesn't really care.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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I learned how to make EFPs about 30 years ago during a tour with the 5th Special Forces Group at Ft. Bragg. I can personally attest to the fact that they are not difficult to make, but very difficult to make properly. My demo sergeant (lots of experience) made one that worked fine. Mine didn't.
For what it is worth.
Posted by: Old_dawg at May 04, 2007 11:25 AM (iW7Hp)
2
Isn't it ironic that the "Bush lied" crowd has no use for the truth?
Posted by: DoorHold at May 04, 2007 12:09 PM (Qm2t0)
3
Iran is Shia. The insurgents in Iraq are largely Sunni. Why would Iran arm the Iraqi Sunni, who are killing both Americans and Iraqi Shia?
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 01:41 PM (xy13o)
4
Lex, why dont you ask Iran.
Posted by: Justin at May 04, 2007 02:19 PM (NiTuu)
5
I do think it is ironic how the "Bush lied" nuts seem to lie constantly.
Posted by: Justin at May 04, 2007 02:20 PM (NiTuu)
6
Lex, I'll try to keep long words out of the answer.
Iran wants to get America to withdraw and leave them a free hand. Iran is well aware that the best way to do that is to have a steady stream of violence that Fifth Columnists like yourself, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Murtha, and NBC/ABC/NYT/CNN/WaPo, et al, can use as evidence that America is "losing" because of George Bush. They are also aware that it doesn't have to be American troops, or Iraqi troops, who might be able to defeat them, that get killed; any dead body will do, and civilians are eaasier targets. Finally, they are aware of the classic terrorist maxim: "You have to win every time, we only have to win once." The more hands they have to cause mayhem, the more likely that the once will happen.
As for getting Iraqi Shia killed? The Persian Iranians consider the Iraqi Arabs to be subhumans anyway, and you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Look up the terms "pawn" and "cannon fodder."
Why would the Sunnis work with the Iranians? Hey, Iranian money spends, Iranian explosives blow up real good, and even if they can't take back over, maybe the Iranians will need Kapos.
Posted by: SDN at May 04, 2007 02:22 PM (rtOk5)
7
Iran is Shia. The insurgents in Iraq are largely Sunni. Why would Iran arm the Iraqi Sunni, who are killing both Americans and Iraqi Shia?
What does Shia Iran support Hamas, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Salafist Group for Call and Combat, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Palestine Islamic Jihad, Kurdistan Workers' Party, and other Sunni terror groups?
Why is Baathist Syria one of the biggest supporters and weapons conduits of Shia Hezbollah?
Why are Baathist Syria and Shia Iran even allies?
Sectarian boundaries do not trump the will to power of rouge states. Iran has no abiding feelings for any of the Sunni terrorist groups it supports, but these groups, like the Sunni insurgents and Shia militias in Iraq, are cost effective ways of asserting Iran's foreign policy.
Iran has long been thought to have been targeting for control the oil fields of southern Iraq, and the best way for them to obtain control is to destabilize the Iraqi government and force a U.s. retreat from Iraq. With a failed state, there are virtually dozens of ways Iran could assert power into southern Iraq, but first, they have to make sure Iraq's democracy fails.
Towards that end, they will continue to supply any group in Iraq that will wage war against the Iraqi government or coalition forces. If they can get Sunni insurgents to fight for them it is a bonus: they can attempt to inflict casualties, without have to take casualties to either themselves, or casualties the Shia militias loyal to Iran that it would need to assert control if Democrats manage to force a retreat.
In the simplest, most Machiavellian terms, if you have two enemies willing to kill each other, why not give them the means to accomplish their goals?
Wars have been fought for thousands of years this very way, for this very reason. It is a textbook definition of a proxy war.
Now, that answers the first part of your question, but doesn't precisely address why they would give weaponry to Sunnis if those weapons could be used against Shia.
First, most of the weaponry Iran can be tied to conclusively has been targeted squarely at Coalition military forces, from HS50 sniper rifles, to EFPs and MANPADs (man-portable SAMS). These weapons are used almost exclusively against American and British forces.
Other, less precise weapons, such as mortars and RPGs, are primarily targeted at government forces. Sure, their government forces are largely Shia, but Iran cannot take over Iraq if Iraq's government holds. They're willing to break a few eggs, especially when it can be blamed directly on Sunnis.
Iran is cynical and smart enough to also know that if their Sunni recipients further a sectarian war, or initiate rounds of sectarian attacks and counterattacks, that also ultimately benefits them.
All of this is a very detailed explanation, but it boils down to this: Iran will fund any terrorist group that it thinks might work for their best interests.
Is that clear enough of an explanation?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 04, 2007 02:25 PM (9y6qg)
8
Justin:
Lex, why dont you ask Iran.
Why don't you try to say something that isn't dumb? Also, investigate the key between 'semicolon' and 'enter' on your keyboard. Maybe you'll learn something.
I do think it is ironic how the "Bush lied" nuts seem to lie constantly.
I said nothing untrue, so in fact you lied. Also Bush has something like 30% approval, so who's the nut?
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 04:31 PM (xy13o)
9
SDN:
NBC/ABC/NYT/CNN/WaPo, et al, can use as evidence that America is "losing" because of George Bush
You are such a fruitcake. You've believed for four years that everything is swell in Iraq. Victory is always six months away. Then in six months Bush announces yet another new approach and as usual Iraq continues to worsen. You believe that there's plenty of good news to be had, only a cabal of communist atheist jihadi news agencies refuses to let us know what it is.
Yet check out. Does the Times really support jihad as much as you think? Elizabeth Bumiller and Judith Miller were way into the war, at least when it looked promising.
"The Bush administration is planning to withdraw most United States combat forces from Iraq over the next several months and wants to shrink the American military presence to less than two divisions by the fall, senior allied officials said today."
--NYT, May 2003
No, your real beef with the MSM is that it doesn't support your fantasy world well enough. Twenty years hence you will still be mad that we didn't win this war.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 04:57 PM (xy13o)
10
CY:
What does Shia Iran support Hamas, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Salafist Group for Call and Combat, Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, Palestine Islamic Jihad, Kurdistan Workers' Party, and other Sunni terror groups? Why is Baathist Syria one of the biggest supporters and weapons conduits of Shia Hezbollah?
Simple, because those groups aren't at war with Shia. Christians look to their own sect foremost, but support Christianity in general over other religions. And so it is with Muslims.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 05:03 PM (xy13o)
11
Also Bush has something like 30% approval
And congress's approval was what again?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 04, 2007 05:05 PM (6UoPI)
12
PA: what are you trying to prove? Congress has a low approval rating, therefore...?
I suspect you fancy your comments to be clever and effective. They're peculiar and useless.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 07:07 PM (xy13o)
13
"I suspect you fancy your comments to be clever and effective. They're peculiar and useless."
Oh, Kettle, thou art Black.
---Pot.
Posted by: SDN at May 04, 2007 09:20 PM (rtOk5)
14
Oh, and Lex, 20 years from now I expect to be a survivor and veteran of "The Long Beach CA Crater War" and "Civil War II". Both of them will have the same root cause, you and your Fifth Column hamstringing the sane, and will unfortunately result in the massacre of 90%+ of the Muslim World and the fortunate 100% elimination of the aforementioned Fifth Column.
Posted by: SDN at May 04, 2007 09:26 PM (rtOk5)
15
SDN: You paint a clear portrait of yourself in few words. You take solace in your guns, and long for the day that you will be important for having them. You don't wish to think about it but you know you are marginal. Urban liberals have more influence and lead fuller lives than what you can reasonably expect. Your guns will never have the slightest effect. You will not enjoy an armed conflict with liberals. You could participate in a war with jihadis, but evidently you prefer to leave that to others.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 04, 2007 11:47 PM (xy13o)
16
PA: what are you trying to prove?
That as bad as the executive team is, your favorite legislative team is faring worse?
Its kind of a perspective thing -- but liberals aren't about perspective are they?
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 05, 2007 07:36 AM (6UoPI)
17
Guys, I am really getting tired of the personal attacks.
And Lex, you also happen to be wrong about the various Sunni groups supportedby Iran being at war with Shia. Sunni, by definition, view Shia as heretics. They will kill them as they have the chance, they just have other priorities at the moment.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at May 05, 2007 09:26 AM (HcgFD)
18
PA: as bad as the executive team is, your favorite legislative team is faring worse
I hope you are just pretending not to understand this, but one never knows. Bush's signature is the Iraq War. Bush polled at 30% approval as per the Wall Street Journal.
You counter that congress polls even worse. I don't know if that is true. If it is, what have your proved? Our congress is a large body which contains many different points of view. This excerpt from a Pew poll demonstrates one source of discontent the public has regarding congress:
Do you think Democratic leaders in Congress are going too far or not far enough in challenging George W. Bush's policies in Iraq, or are they handling this about right?
Too far 23%
Not far enough 40%
About right 30%
Don't know/Refused 7%
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 05, 2007 12:49 PM (xy13o)
19
PA:
"Meanwhile, the new Democratic-controlled Congress is getting relatively high marks. And 55 percent actually trust Congressional Dems on U.S. policy in Iraq, far more than the 32 percent who trust their commander in chief."
Since that came out Bush has fallen to 28%, the lowest since Carter in 1979.
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 05, 2007 10:01 PM (CCLRE)
20
CY:
Lex, you also happen to be wrong about the various Sunni groups supportedby Iran being at war with Shia. Sunni, by definition, view Shia as heretics. They will kill them as they have the chance, they just have other priorities at the moment.
It sounds like you're saying that Iraqi Sunni and Shia are not battling each other. That can't be what you mean though. Can you rephrase that?
Posted by: Lex Steele at May 05, 2007 10:05 PM (CCLRE)
21
CY,
Had to do some traveling.
When I refer to Lex and his ilk as Fifth Columnists, I am not name-calling in the sense of spewing random insults. I am saying that their behavior fits the definition of a Fifth Column as formulated in the WWII era: a group of people, supposedly citizens of a country, who act in ways that support the efforts of an external enemy.
Likewise, my referring to R. Stanton Scott and John Murtha as "Benedict Arnolds" has a specific historical context: a member of the military who at one time served with distinction, but who is presently acting against the country's interests either by direct treason or by being what Orwell referred to as "objectively pro-fascist" and crippling the country's efforts to fight its' enemies. This can be for any number of reasons from feeling unappreciated or unrewarded(Arnold's original motivation) to self-promotion to political advantage to simple stupidity. I'm far less concerned with the motive than I am with the results.
Posted by: SDN at May 09, 2007 07:57 PM (TIw0n)
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Murtha's Mangled Memory
Is anti-war Democrat Congressman John Murtha (D-PA) beginning to show signs of memory loss?
As reported yesterday on the liberal
Think Progress, Murtha
said the following in an exchange with Chris Matthews in an exchange with Chris Matthews on MCNBC's
Hardball (my bold):
MATTHEWS: Do you think he'd actually sign that bill, or he would consider that hobbling him?
MURTHA: Well, I am not sure. He made up his mind so early, I'm not sure he even read the bill. I mean, this is the problem with this spinning that goes on. They bring Petraeus back, purely a political move. Petraeus comes back here, doesn't talk to any of us. He only talks to the news media, and so forth, trying to sell this program. Bush was 64 percent when his mission — mission possible, and today he's 34 percent, so he's just turned the opposite. And this bill's not going to make any difference, just like what we say here makes little difference. What's going to count is what happens on the ground. The Iraqis are going to have to decide it themselves.
MATTHEWS: You know, when you read Petraeus statements to the press corps — and I know you said he didn't talk to Congress, but they put out this statement. I read it in "The Weekly Standard" this week, which does have Petraeus's remarks in there. He does say that we're fighting the central front against al Qaeda in Iraq. Is that true?
MURTHA: That's absolutely not true. That's an exaggeration...
MATTHEWS: That's Petraeus saying that.
MURTHA: That's Petraeus saying it. I just gave those comments to General Pace. I said, General — just 5, 10 minutes ago I gave them to General Pace. I said, General, these comments that General Petraeus made are absolutely inaccurate, according to the intelligence we have. Now, that's the kind of stuff he's saying, and that's why I say it was purely political.
Now, when I say he didn't talk to Congress, he talked to a group of members. He didn't talk to the committees that have jurisdiction over this legislation.
MATTHEWS: Well, why wouldn't he tell the truth? If his troops are over there getting killed — as you point out, we lost 100 guys this month, one of the worst months — worst month of the year — getting killed by Sunni insurgents and by militia people on the Shia side — why is he blaming it on al Qaeda?
MURTHA: Chris...
MATTHEWS: The people who blew up the World Trade Center. Why's he doing that?
MURTHA: This whole — whole war, ever since it diverted the attention away from where al Qaeda started, the Taliban in Afghanistan, the war in Afghanistan, where we should have stayed, ever since that time, they've been trying to tie this into terrorism. All of us know there's terrorism all over the world...
MATTHEWS: But he's not — but Congressman, he's not a PR man. He's not a flack for the White House. He's a general in the field. Why would he be...
MURTHA: Hey, wait a minute.
MATTHEWS: You're saying he's singing the song of the ideologues.
MURTHA: I'm saying — I'm saying he came back here at the White House's request to purely make political statements. That's what I'm saying. There's no question in my mind about it.
Perhaps there
should be a few questions in John Murtha's mind, starting with why he would tell easily checked fabrications to Chris Matthews, Pennsylvania voters, and the American people at large.
Yesterday, I sent an email to Baghdad asking about Murtha's pronouncement that Commanding General David Petraeus "doesn't talk to any of us," and his hastily re-calibrated statement, "Now, when I say he didn't talk to Congress, he talked to a group of members. He didn't talk to the committees that have jurisdiction over this legislation."
I also sent along a link to
this CNS News article, that cited a "A senior Defense Department official" as saying that not only did General Petraeus conduct conducted
two 90-minute, top-secret level operations intelligence briefings for representatives and senators, but that the meetings were among the most heavily attended in recent memory, and that Petraeus
personally provided briefings to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Congressman Murtha in conference calls.
Col. Steve Boylan, Public Affairs Officer of Multinational Forces-Iraq Commanding General David Petraeus, sent me back the following in response (my bold):
GEN Petraeus briefed the entire House of Representatives in closed session (so it could be classified) and had a good session with them. I was there to see it. The session was chaired by Cong Ike Skelton, Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, the committee that oversees the Dept of Defense (in place of Speaker Pelosi). Because Speaker Pelosi was unavailable, GEN Petraeus spoke to her (with Cong Murtha on the phone as well) for 30 minutes the day prior. He also briefed the entire Senate in closed session. The turnouts for both sessions were reportedly among the biggest ever seen. In the House it was over 260 members, many of them standing room only as well as many members sitting on the floor. Cong Murtha was present for the House session.
Not only did John Murtha speak with General Petraeus for half an hour the day prior to the closed session,
he also attended the closed session as well.
By this account, consistent with the CNS News account, General Petraeus perhaps spent more time discussing the Iraq War with Congressman John Murtha
than any other member of the House of Representatives.
We should also take issue with other comments uttered by Murtha, in this exchange with Matthews from the transcript above:
MATTHEWS: You know, when you read Petraeus statements to the press corps — and I know you said he didn't talk to Congress, but they put out this statement. I read it in "The Weekly Standard" this week, which does have Petraeus's remarks in there. He does say that we're fighting the central front against al Qaeda in Iraq. Is that true?
MURTHA: That's absolutely not true. That's an exaggeration...
MATTHEWS: That's Petraeus saying that.
MURTHA: That's Petraeus saying it. I just gave those comments to General Pace. I said, General — just 5, 10 minutes ago I gave them to General Pace. I said, General, these comments that General Petraeus made are absolutely inaccurate, according to the intelligence we have. Now, that's the kind of stuff he's saying, and that's why I say it was purely political.
To that and other comments made by Murtha denying that Iraq is al Qaeda's central front, Col Boylan issued the following:
The assessment that Al Qaeda's central front is Iraq is not just GEN Petraeus'. It is shared by LTG Stan McCrystal, the Commanding General of the Joint Special Operations Command, the organization that most
directly fights Al Qaeda; and, LTG McCrystal spend the vast majority of his time with us in Iraq overseeing that effort. The Director of the CIA shares this assessment too.
Murtha can't remember the meetings he's attended, and somehow has a view of the war that doesn't match up with that of the reality faced by the military commanders most directly involved in fighting the, or that of our nation's intelligence agencies.
Congressman Murtha, it's time to call your physician.
Treatment options are available.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:16 AM
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1
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 05/04/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention.
Posted by: David M at May 04, 2007 09:46 AM (kNjJk)
2
Somehow, I doubt that Washington would have recommended medical treatment for Benedict Arnold.
Posted by: SDN at May 04, 2007 02:25 PM (rtOk5)
3
I mean come on guys, clearly Murtha has been to Iraq and he must of seen himself that al-queda isnt there. My god, what an idiot.
Posted by: Justin at May 04, 2007 02:25 PM (NiTuu)
4
Stop picking on the retard. It ain't nice.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 04, 2007 05:06 PM (6UoPI)
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May 03, 2007
The Republican Debate in Ten Words
Romney looks it.
McCain's blinky.
Rudy flounders.
Where is Fred?
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:09 PM
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1
Is that like a haiku or something? Thank you. Now I don't have to watch.
Posted by: Chip Ahoy at May 03, 2007 08:39 PM (9YONe)
2
Fred is in the winners circle while these other guys are still circling the track.
Posted by: 1sttofight at May 03, 2007 09:39 PM (qy/pM)
3
Mitt Romney was the John Edwards of tonight's debate: calculated, slick, and unconvincing.
Posted by: Mark Daniels at May 03, 2007 10:16 PM (Qq1Nm)
4
I figure Romney probably moved up the polls compared to anyone else that was there tonight, but my biggest reaction to the debate was THOMPSON '08! I'll probably have more to say at http://www.smalltownveteran.net/bills_bites/2007/05/20070503_decisi.html after I've had time to study some film clips; I guess NBC is going to rerun the whole thing later but it's not worth watching all of again.
How long has Ron Paul been passing himself off as a Republican?
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 03, 2007 10:32 PM (n7SaI)
5
Bill: Ron is a Libertarian. In fact, he was the Libertarian nominee for President in 1988 (placed 3rd nationally). He's been caucusing with Republicans since the late 1990s. See wiki.
Posted by: Jody at May 04, 2007 06:37 AM (GUHCn)
6
I watched the debate.
Searching for inspiration.
Looking for a man.
To inspire me to the battlements.
Alas,
That man was not there.
Posted by: rightwinginsider at May 04, 2007 11:21 AM (gOndg)
7
Fred Thompson has my vote and should have every conservative out there.
HE IS THE MAN.
Posted by: Matt at May 04, 2007 01:05 PM (lPBK/)
8
Head and shoulders above the field, Mitt Romney was articulate, witty, and appeared just smarter than the rest of the field. His response to stem cell research caught even the commentator off guard. He obviously knows his stuff and should move up in the polls. Keenly Reagan, even Thompson cannot appeal as much as Mitt, but imagine a Romney/Thompson ticket. That looks like a winner in 08. Romney caught my attention.
Posted by: Michael in Seattle at May 05, 2007 11:19 PM (pRm0B)
9
After reading different republican blogs about the debates of Thursday past, it appears that America has died at last. With concern for pomp and style and looks, the lack of discernment for substance renders the mainstream kooks. Why no concern for details? Only one candidate offered the truly Patriotic antidote for the people's travails. Non-interventionism, sound money and abiding by the Constitution are the solution and the failure to see this is aiding in Freedom's dissolution. Republicrats and demopublicans rule the day while truth, knowledge and honesty have all but gone away.
Posted by: Mat at May 08, 2007 06:51 AM (EZPQC)
10
Oh, yeah. What about this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18421356
Posted by: Mat at May 08, 2007 07:04 AM (EZPQC)
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Army Blog Gag Order Fact Sheet
A reliable source passed along the following:
Fact Sheet
Army Operations Security: Soldier Blogging Unchanged
Summary:
- America's Army respects every Soldier's First Amendment rights
while also adhering to Operations Security (OPSEC) considerations to
ensure their safety on the battlefield. - Soldiers and Army family members agree that safety of ourSoldiers are of utmost importance.
- Soldiers, Civilians, contractors and Family Members all play an integral role in maintaining Operations Security, just as in previous wars.
Details:
- In no way will every blog post/update a Soldier makes on his or
her blog need to be monitored or first approved by an immediate
supervisor and Operations Security (OPSEC) officer. After receiving
guidance and awareness training from the appointed OPSEC officer, that
Soldier blogger is entrusted to practice OPSEC when posting in a public
forum. - Army Regulation 350-1, "Operations Security," was updated April
17, 2007 - but the wording and policies on blogging remain the same from
the July 2005 guidance first put out by the U.S. Army in Iraq for
battlefield blogging. Since not every post/update in a public forum can be monitored, this regulation places trust in the Soldier, Civilian Employee, Family Member and contractor that they will use proper judgment to ensure OPSEC. - Much of the information contained in the 2007 version of AR530-1 already was included in the 2005 version of AR 530-1. For example, Soldiers have been required since 2005 to report to their immediate supervisor and OPSEC officer about their wishes to publish military-related content in public forums.
- Army Regulation 530-1 simply lays out measures to help ensure operations security issues are not published in public forums (i.e.,blogs) by Army personnel.
- Soldiers do not have to seek permission from a supervisor to send personal E-mails. Personal E-mails are considered private communication. However, AR 530-1 does mention if someone later posts an E-mail in a public forum containing information sensitive to OPSEC considerations, an issue may then arise.
- Soldiers may also have a blog without needing to consult with their immediate supervisor and OPSEC officer if the following conditions are met:
- The blog's topic is not military-related (i.e., Sgt. Doe
publishes a blog about his favorite basketball team). - The Soldier doesn't represent or act on behalf of the Army in any way.
- The Soldier doesn't use government equipment when on his or her personal blog.
- Army Family Members are not mandated by commanders to practice OPSEC. Commanders cannot order military Family Members to adhere to OPSEC. AR 530-1 simply says Family Members need to be aware of OPSEC to help safeguard potentially critical and sensitive information. This helps to ensure Soldiers' safety, technologies and present and future operations will not be compromised.
- Just as in 2005 and 2006, a Soldier should inform his or her OPSEC officer and immediate supervisor when establishing a blog for two primary reasons:
- To provide the command situational awareness.
- To allow the OPSEC officer an opportunity to explain to the Soldier matters to be aware of when posting military-related content in a public, global forum.
- A Soldier who already has a military-related blog that has not yet consulted with his or her immediate supervisor and OPSEC officer should do so.
- Commands have the authority to enact local regulations in addition to what AR 530-1 stipulates on this topic.
The source suggested this was a "climb down" on the part of the Army. I honestly don't know enough about the original set of orders, or how they were enforced within the Army, to comment, but will link those who do when they post.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:15 PM
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Well, well well the fit hit the shan, and the Army nut case who wrote the order is now in Iraq. Enjoying the weather I'm sure. Hope s/he doesn't rely on email to contact their family.
Posted by: CoRev at May 03, 2007 03:40 PM (0U8Ob)
2
The first thing I did when I read the WIRED article was write PAO in Iraq (stil waiting for a response) for confirmation. Although the WIRED article appeared well sourced and not the typical MSM hype, it still didnt sit right with me. I think it will come out that there is no observable change and a lot of us milblog supporters will look way too reactionary for flying off at the army. Of all people, those on the right should know by now that when it comes to media reports, identify your target before you fire. I haven't read the new manual yet, but lot's of times things are re-written to provide legal cover (like to allow prosecution for breaking a reg) and aren't meant to be taken as a real change to current practice (but of course, not always).
Posted by: Ray Robison at May 03, 2007 05:00 PM (z62e3)
3
The interesting thing is that the original 530-1 came out in March... the April 19th version was to fix typos. Did nobody see the March version?
As someone who fell afoul of this stuff back before the Army heard the word "blog" in 2003, it is unfortunately not a minor matter - I was fortunate in that it was determined that it wasn't a deliberate thing on my part and I only received a General Officer Letter of Reprimand....
Posted by: SGT Jeff (USAR) at May 03, 2007 05:07 PM (yiMNP)
4
Whether today's clarification was a climb-down or the whole thing was a misunderstanding to begin with, things are looking a lot less grim now than 24 hours ago. -- The END of Military Blogging? -- Day 2
Posted by: Bill Faith at May 03, 2007 10:39 PM (n7SaI)
5
At first glance it seems ridiculous, but secuity is extremely important at a time like this. The enemy does have computers, and the MSM does have a tendancy to print first ask questions later. I think they should let the Soldiers email their families as much as they want though.
Posted by: Justin at May 05, 2007 07:49 AM (NiTuu)
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Just How Educated Are Our Reporters?
Read this, and you'll be asking that question as well.
It isn't rocket science.
al Qaeda in Iraq is the lead element in a coalition of Sunni insurgent groups that now calls itself the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI).
al Qaeda in particular and the ISI in general are becoming increasingly unpopular
even within the Sunni insurgency because of al Qaeda's tactic of using foreign suicide bombers to indiscriminately target Iraqi civilians, Sunni and Shia, and their
vastly different goals:
...the insistence that homegrown insurgent groups bow down to the Islamic State was insulting to the Iraqi fighters defending their homeland. The fact that the Islamic State's end goal -- the establishment of an Islamic caliphate in Iraq -- was not the end goal for Iraqi insurgent groups, despite their rhetoric in support of an Islamic state, was another obvious source of contention.
The Islamic State's insistence that Iraqi groups subordinate themselves to its hierarchy and vision only increased after November, leading to a number of documented clashes between the Islamic State and homegrown insurgent groups. When the Islamic State began targeting Iraqi insurgent leaders with attacks and assassinations, the Iraqi groups responded with vigor.
There are essentially two conflicts going on in Iraq.
One is the sectarian "civil war" we've heard so much about in the press, which is largely occurring along Sunni and Shia sectarian lines. Sunni and Shia death squads target the opposite sect. This is going to take a long time to quell, and will take primarily a political/social/cultural solution.
The other is a fight between government and coalition forces and an increasing number of Sunni tribes against a dwindling number of Islamist terrorists, primarily al Qaeda and it's remaining supporters. The solution to this particular problem is decidedly far more military in nature, and if recent trends continue, the solution may be coming sooner rather than later.
You would hope that someone as smart as Dana Milbank could figure this out, and perhaps it is still not too late.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
02:50 PM
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Geeez CY,
All you had to say was that it was Dana Milbank and I would've known it was uneducated opinion being published in the form of news.
Posted by: Specter at May 03, 2007 04:35 PM (ybfXM)
2
Obviously Millbank rode the short bus.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 03, 2007 07:49 PM (CPya5)
3
Milbank isn't dumb, he just thinks we are.
Posted by: mindnumbrobot at May 04, 2007 11:59 AM (d5LvD)
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Insurgency Declares Intent to Disarm
And to think it only took 41 years.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:57 AM
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Murtha Lies, Think Progress Falls For It Hook, Line, and Sinker
From the braintrust at Think Progress:
During an appearance on Hardball, Rep. John Murtha (D-PA) slammed the White House for using Petraeus as a political prop. He said the decision to bring Petraeus back to the U.S. for a rare visit last week, days before Congress voted on its Iraq timeline legislation, was "purely a political move," pointing out that Petraeus made numerous media appearances but did not testify before Congress' armed services committees.
And now an injection of reality from
CNS News:
Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) this week criticized Gen. David Petraeus for not meeting with members of Congress during a recent visit to Washington, D.C., to report on the status of operations in Iraq, but not only did the commander of Multinational Force - Iraq meet with hundreds of lawmakers, he personally briefed Murtha himself.
Murtha told MSNBC's Chris Matthews on Tuesday, "They bring Petraeus back - purely political move. Petraeus comes back here. He doesn't talk to any of us. He only talks to the news media and so forth trying to sell this program."
But a senior Defense Department official told Cybercast News Service that Petraeus personally briefed Murtha and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) in an April 24 phone conference that lasted 20-30 minutes.
The following day, Petraeus conducted two 90-minute, top-secret level operations intelligence briefings for representatives and senators.
The first, to which all members of the House of Representatives had been invited, was attended by 250 congressmen, and the second was attended by 86 senators. After brief opening statements at the two briefings, Petraeus spent the remaining time answering questions from the congressmen in attendance.
"These were two of the most widely attended operations intelligence briefings in recent memory," the Pentagon official said.
Now, how likely do you think it is that "Nico," Think Progress, or the Congressman himself will admit that he boldly lied to Chris Matthews? Do you think that Think Progress will issue a correction? Do you think Mathews will criticize Murtha for lying to him?
It would be nice, but I wouldn't suggest holding your breath for any of the above to occur.
Update: An attempt to publish the link and an excerpt of the CNS article above to the Think Progress comments thread has apparently failed.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
11:42 AM
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Umm, maybe Matthews' show was pre-recorded? Doesn't matter since the MSM won't hold his feet to the fire. This story will vaporize, like dozens of others.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 03, 2007 12:19 PM (SM/Wg)
2
I've heard that Hollywood is making a new sequel to "Hot Shots". Well, since Lloyd Bridges has passed on, perhaps they'll cast John Murtha as Benson instead.
I can see the memorable quotes on imdb.com now:
Sheik Abu Abscam: "Ya want Money now?"
Benson: "Ma Knee? Fine now!"
Reporter: "What do you think about talking to Petraeus?"
Benson: "Betray us? Never talk to betray us!"
Benson: "Why not fight from Oki Nawa? It's as close as Abu Dhabi!"
Posted by: Rick at May 03, 2007 12:43 PM (la13v)
3
I wish Murtha hadn't done that.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 03, 2007 01:00 PM (nrafD)
4
Sorry Doc.
Murtha has been doing this kind of crap all along. He just isn't smart enough to realize that people can check on his statements - or even that people are looking. Dimmie Brain Trust at work.
Posted by: Specter at May 03, 2007 01:04 PM (ybfXM)
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Two Arrested Smuggling Iranian EFPs in Sadr City
Oui?
US forces arrested two Iraqis suspected of smuggling weapons and armour-piercing explosives from Iran in a dawn raid Thursday into Baghdad's Shiite slum Sadr City, the military announced.
The arrests came ahead of a possible first meeting between the foreign ministers of Iran and United States since 1980, at an international conference on the future of Iraq in the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.
"The individuals targeted during the raid are suspected members of a secret cell terrorist network known for facilitating the transport of weapons and explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, from Iran to Iraq," the military said.
The statement said the network was also training Iraqi militants in Iran.
The CENTCOM release this story was based upon is
here.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
10:04 AM
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Pressure
The leader of the Islamic State of Iraq has been killed:
US and Iraqi forces have killed the head of the so-called Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), an umbrella group of Sunni insurgents which includes Al-Qaeda, Iraq's deputy interior minister said Thursday.
Minister Hussein Ali Kamal said the insurgent leader known as Omar al-Baghdadi was killed in western Baghdad. "His body is under the control of the interior ministry. His body has been identified," he told AFP.
Separately, US military spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Chris Garver said the military would hold a news conference later on Thursday to announce a "recent success against a senior leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq."
Unlike the claimed but unconfirmed killing of al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Ayyub al-Masri, who was reportedly killed earlier this week in a firefight with one of a number of Sunni tribal militias formerly aligned with al Qaeda, who have now joined with Coalition forces, al-Baghdadi's body has been claimed and apparently identified.
For the roundup of this story, go to
Pajamas Media.
al-Baghdadi's death is properly categorized as a "big fish;" al-Masri, as
Dan Riehl noted, once declared allegiance to al-Baghdadi.
This news comes as Evan Kohlmann notes that the al Qaeda coalition
continues to fracture:
In the wake of the recent and very public rift between the Sunni Islamic Army of Iraq (IAI) and Al-Qaida's "Islamic State", yet more cracks are suddenly beginning to show in the unified jihadist coalition that Al-Qaida has been trying to assemble in Sunni regions of Iraq. Today, the IAI--along with factions from at least two other predominant Sunni militant groups, the Mujahideen Army and the notorious Ansar al-Sunnah Army--have officially announced the formation of their own separate political coalition: "The Reformation and Jihad Front" (RJF). This new front would seem to be a direct challenge to the authority of Al-Qaida's "Islamic State" and is said to enjoy support from Sunni Islamist circles (like Ansar al-Sunnah) which have, in the past, worked closely with Al-Qaida.
Kohlmann goes on to note that while the RJF is no ally of American nor Iraqi democracy, it poses a significant political threat to the future of al Qaeda in Iraq, perhaps even more significant than the formation of the Anbar Salvation Council.
Marc Lynch notes of the RJF that:
While the language is typically religious, the focus is exclusively Iraqi, and says nothing about wider global jihad.
As a result, the group should have more appeal to the various Sunni insurgent factions that are more nationalistic in their goals, and thus lessen support for al Qaeda in Iraq.
"Divide and conquer" was the original aim al Qaeda and the Sunni insurgency, as they hoped to capture popular Iraqi support and use that support against the Iraqi government and the Coalition. It will be very interesting to see how the media decides to note the now obvious fact that it is al Qaeda and it's aligned Sunni groups that are fracturing, factionalizing, and turning on one another.
Update: A "Twofer?" Over at
Hot Air,
Bryan is running with a Washington
Post article where General William Caldwell has confirmed that Muharib Abdul-Latif al-Jubouri, al-Qaida’s information minister, has been killed, a fact confirmed by DNA tests
on the body:
Caldwell said the U.S. does not have the bodies of Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, the head of the Islamic State of Iraq, or Abu Ayyub al-Masri, the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, and doesn't know of "anybody that does."
He said the military had conducted numerous operations against al-Qaida in Iraq in the last six days.
Al-Jubouri was killed while trying to resist detention in an operation about four miles west of the Taji air base north of Baghdad early Tuesday, and the body was initially identified by photos, then confirmed by DNA testing Wednesday, he said.
Meanwhile, Bryan notes that Iraqi media sites such as
Aswat al Iraq are still claiming al-Baghdadi's death, and even purport to have video of the body.
Who is right?
IraqSlogger isn't sure, but states that CNN is claiming that al-Baghdadi and Al-Jubouri may very well be the same person. I couldn't find that claim at CNN, so the statement only adds to the confusion.
The overall facts remain the same, regardless of which al Qaeda leader specifically died: al Qaeda in Iraq is being hunted, cornered, and killed or captured, and the pace of such operations seems to be increasing.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
08:37 AM
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May 02, 2007
Silencing the Milbloggers
Over the weekend, milblogger Jim ("Uncle Jimbo") Hanson was asked on CNN:
Let me ask you quickly, Jim, there's been a lot made of the media improvements by the insurgents, that they're doing a great job of getting their message out. What are we going to see from our military as we move forward against that press machine, when they try to balance it?
The military's response, written by an
Army Major, borders on
incompetence.
The U.S. Army has ordered soldiers to stop posting to blogs or sending personal e-mail messages, without first clearing the content with a superior officer, Wired News has learned. The directive, issued April 19, is the sharpest restriction on troops' online activities since the start of the Iraq war. And it could mean the end of military blogs, observers say.
Military officials have been wrestling for years with how to handle troops who publish blogs. Officers have weighed the need for wartime discretion against the opportunities for the public to personally connect with some of the most effective advocates for the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- the troops themselves. The secret-keepers have generally won the argument, and the once-permissive atmosphere has slowly grown more tightly regulated. Soldier-bloggers have dropped offline as a result.
The new rules (.pdf) obtained by Wired News require a commander be consulted before every blog update.
I certainly understand the military's concerns about operational security, but this order takes us precisely in the wrong direction.
We need a greater flow of information, more firsthand accounts from our frontline soldiers, explaining to us in stark, sometimes vulgar language the exact nature of the war and the enemy we are fighting.
Military blogs, or milblogs, are the only way for frontline soldier to directly relate their experiences to the American public without the filters placed upon them by either the media or their military commanders.
Blog entries from Neil Prakash who formerly wrote at
Armor Geddon, provided an irresistible, riveting account of the Battle of Fallujah from the viewpoint of a tank commander involved in the brutal house-to-house fighting. Prakash
won a Silver Star during the battle he chronicled, and in writing about his experiences, provided a vivid window into the war that no reporter could emulate, a perspective that no dry MNF-I press release could convey.
At the time,
Armor Geddon was perhaps one of the finest of milblogs, and did more to provide a real reflection of the conditions on the ground than any news anchor or wire service report. Armor Geddon became one of the first and most prominent casualties of the OpSec war. Prakash's blog fell silent on October 4, 2005.
One can only imagine what he could have accomplished in communicating the war effort since that time, had the military not decided to silence his voice.
Armor Geddon is just one of a galaxy of milblogs that could envelop the media organizations of the world, organizations that rely upon stringers, bureau reporters, and multiple layers of editors to provide a sterile, detached view of the war and the men fighting it.
Milblogs can and should be among our strongest assets is a war that is as much about perception as execution. Thousands of military bloggers, describing everything from excruciating boredom, to the rush of surviving the shot that
just cracks past, milbloggers can serve not only as our first line defenders, but our first line of information.
If we want to win a war that is as much about information as it is about actual counterinsurgency, few can win the American public better than the American soldier or Marine communicating directly to the American people from their hearts.
I hope Army brass realizes this mistake before their concerns over operational security loses the war by not communicating "why we fight" to the American people.
Update: It's
purely speculation, of course, but a couple of veterans in emails to
Michelle Malkin have raised the possibilty that the new regulations were put in place as a response to harsh criticism of Harry Reid's "war is lost" comments.
The timeline--the order was issued April 19, well in advance of that
particular defeatist comment--is wrong on the facts, but it raises an interesting possibility in principle: is it possible that Democratic pressure may be behind the Army's gag order?
Sure,
Wonkette and others are quick to jump the gun and predictably "blame Bush" for the order, but like others buying that particular storyline,
they obviously don't read milblogs.
Military bloggers are certainly not all fans of George W. Bush, but one thing is for certain, and that is that the overwhelming majority of them are strongly against the "retreat in defeat" plans that Democrats have been pushing since before the 2006 elections.
Who
really has more to lose from a vocal military blogosphere? Is it the President, who has supported the military and their shared mission and still fights for it, or the Democrats, who seek to undermine every soldier's sacrifice and the Iraqi lives they are trying to protect?
NOTE: Any no, I don't personally think Democrats are behind this.
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
03:21 PM
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1
Great catch and good analysis. We should also think about what a valuable resource these blogs are going to be for future historians. Milblogs are the new letters from the battlefield. If we silence them, we’re losing one less window into the everyday life of a solider for future generations.
Posted by: dmarek at May 02, 2007 03:33 PM (WRyUa)
2
Michael Yon (nod to Purple Avenger re Brooks) has been complaining for some time now that the military has no idea at all how to handle the public relations/information angle on this war and so the military has to go turn right around and further prove his point.
FUBAR.
Posted by: Cindi at May 02, 2007 05:45 PM (asVsU)
3
What is so sad is even the most novice of us, me for example, realized this was going to be information warfare. We have screwed the pooch on this one from the very beginning. The administration has lost the high ground, due largely to their ineptitude at getting the message out. The Dems have politicized this from the very beginning and the Jihadists have out maneuvered and out messaged us from early on.
Now Army makes it even worse. How will this effect morale? Not well, be sure.
Posted by: CoRev at May 03, 2007 07:34 AM (0U8Ob)
4
wow HR 1592 passed! It's 1935 all over again.
Posted by: akak at May 03, 2007 10:37 AM (VxPCs)
5
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 05/03/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention.
Posted by: David M at May 03, 2007 12:06 PM (jb28t)
6
If this were being handled like a "real" war the military would assign a unit to review blogs for classified content then send them on their way. Ripe for abuse, sure, but better than clamping down on ANY content.
Posted by: DoorHold at May 03, 2007 12:25 PM (SM/Wg)
7
Re: the Malkin thing.
It seems like any alleged Lefty pressure to silence the blogs would go against the well-known Lefty pressure to get more and more details to the public. We on the Left assume that war is horrific, and that details about this horror will turn people away from it. This goes back to the "Nightline" listing of the war dead and the struggle to get photos of the caskets published.
Silencing the blogs would keep the details out of the public eye--the opposite of what the goal has been up until now.
Posted by: Doc Washboard at May 03, 2007 01:07 PM (nrafD)
8
I'm working for the DoD right now, and what I'm hearing is that those criticisms WERE what prompted the new emphasis. Nothing official, of course.
Posted by: SDN at May 04, 2007 02:30 PM (rtOk5)
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Does Digg Founder Kevin Rose Weigh the Same as a Duck?
At social networking news aggregator Digg, someone posted the code to hack encrypted HD-DVDs.
Digg removed the links to the original hack, only to see hundreds of other Diggers repost the hack. Negative reaction by the Digg community
eventually crashed the site.
Bryan Preston expressed sympathy for Rose's delimma at
Hot Air:
My sympathies lie with Kevin on this. He’s being accused of censorship, a charge that really only ought to be leveled at the government and only when censorship is actually occurring, when all he’s doing is abiding by intellectual property law. The HD-DVD encryption code is a piece of property. Rose couldn’t let Digg become the place where the HD-DVD code got out. Doing so might destroy him and the site he founded and thereby the community that’s rioting against him now.
Later in the day, bowing to community pressure, Digg founder Kevin Rose
gave in:
...now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you’ve made it clear. You’d rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won’t delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.
If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.
I feel a certain degree of sympathy for Rose as well, but find his decision to allow his company to be run by the will of an angry mob to be more than little disconcerting.
That approach didn't work too well in Salem
several centuries ago, or for
Radika Singh last week.
Kevin Rose may have just set himself up to be burned.
(For those that missed the duck reference in the title, click
here and scroll)
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
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1
Digg sees itself as a community. It is the mob.
Posted by: jpe at May 02, 2007 05:21 PM (+rmhC)
2
The DMCA is a stupid law. It is a law designed to protect a trade secret that is not possible to be kept secret.
It is an attempt to keep alive a business model (and extend it) that the digital age killed.
Every once in a while the mob is right. This may be one of those times.
Posted by: M. Simon at May 04, 2007 04:16 AM (KD5c/)
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Al Qaeda Leaders Declare Iraq War Lost
The Air Force officer running Mind in the Qatar has discovered that because of their string of recent and on-going defeats, al Qaeda Sheikh Reidari has called upon bin Laden remove their terrorists from Iraq:
Following the deaths of both Abu Musab Al-zaqawi and Abu Ayyub al-Masri, the decimation of the ranks of Al Qaeda in Iraq, and the growing unpopularity of foreign insurgents among Iraqis, some senior terrorists affiliated with Al Qaeda have called upon Usama Bin Laden to withdraw all of his troops from Iraq by October.
The war in Iraq "is lost" and Al Qaeda attacks are failing to bring an Islamic state to the country, spokesman of the Salafist Group for Preching and Combat, Harry Sheikh Reidari, said Thursday. "I believe ... that this war is lost, and continuing attacks are not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme blows to our network in Iraq recently," Reidari told journalists. "Iraq has diverted resources from our greater 'War on Freedom'. It would be best if we withdrew, leaving only a small force to train Iraqi jihadists, and redeployed our other forces to Afghanistan to continue with a Holy War that everyone can support."
Other al Qaeda leaders, such as Abu Jonjalali al-Murthab, Rhadami Hillab Clintonijhad, and Waleed Jo Bidenami echoed Reidari's call. Mohammed Dheniz Khalidinich even called for Egyptian Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's second-in-command, to be ousted:
Additionally, leading Abu Sayyaf Group terrorist Mohammed Dheniz Khalidinich changed that Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri "purposely manipulated information to deceive the al Qaeda rank and file..." Khalidinich said al-Zawahiri did so "by fabricating the idea the U.S. military forces would fold and run once our jihad against them in Iraq got bloody. But today they are still resisting us and sending even more troops to do so. It is clear now that al-Zawahiri knew that this reaction only would happen with a Democratic American President, and he should have known that Bush would not retreat this way. For this failure, he should be removed from al-Qaeda's leadership."
Somehow, this seems
errily familiar...
Posted by: Confederate Yankee at
09:34 AM
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Posted by: Dan Irving at May 02, 2007 09:53 AM (zw8QA)
2
You can't have a War on Freedom. Freedom is an ideal, you can't have a war against thoughts or ideas. This is the same as the ill-fated War on Christianity. It will only result in endless war.
Posted by: BohicaTwentyTwo at May 02, 2007 10:51 AM (oC8nQ)
3
Front page news! Lead story!
Uh ... probably not, right?
Posted by: DoorHold at May 02, 2007 11:39 AM (Pf2Xd)
4
Harry Reid has lodged official protests with AQ in response to their clear lack of spine and defeatism.
Posted by: Purple Avenger at May 02, 2007 04:28 PM (CPya5)
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