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Gun Thread: Second August Edition!
FUNdamentals Can you train with the .22LR cartridge? Why yes, yes you can!
First 24 Hours What do all y'all think? Have you thought any of this through?
Registered Magnum
Trench Guns
Ax Weasel Q: Weasel, What did Air Force nuclear missile crews do every day?
A: I dunno. Launch missiles? Please see below.
Our Pal Fallout Speaking of nuclear missiles...
Highway Patrol! This week's episode: Resort
Journey To The Seventh Planet!
AJ Fernandez, a giant in the cigar blending world, started his New World line in 2014. To commemorate a decade of this line, which now features six different cigars, in 2024 he released the Decenio. It's a nice looking medium brown stick, softly box-pressed, that's light in the hand. The handsome wrapper is Mexican, the fillers are from Nicaragua and Honduras. Construction is excellent, draw is easy. Smoke volume is large, and it's luxurious "chewy" smoke. Flavors for me varied a bit throughout. Rich, earthy tobacco flavor all the way, with a tangy finish or a smoother sweeter end note alternating as the burn proceeded. Medium to full. A very pleasant experience. Don't think I've reviewed many of the other New World sticks, but I'll be looking to try them with that in mind. The New World Decenio is available online for $7.50 and up.Excellent, rhomboid! Thank you!
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New! A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo
Lucky Gunner Ammo NEW!
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Crack-Boom-Bam!
Posted by: Eromero at August 09, 2026 07:00 PM (LHPAg)
2
Good evening, Mr. Weasel!
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:01 PM (ttrGW)
3
Hello Gun Folks.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at August 09, 2026 07:01 PM (CHHv1)
4
Good evening everyone
Posted by: Skip at August 09, 2026 07:01 PM (Ia/+0)
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:03 PM (dZE4s)
6
Nice review rhomboid.
Adding it to the list.
Adding it to the list.
Posted by: Diogenes at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM (2WIwB)
7
It you ever get the chance there's a Titan middle silo with of Tucson that you can tour the inside. Low o of Cool stuff.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM (Qmx03)
8
Missile not middle you fool
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:05 PM (Qmx03)
9
Hello, Weasel!
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:05 PM (BCwQW)
Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by boom bank pew at August 09, 2026 07:06 PM (sAmhv)
11
I have a 16” AR in 300 Blk out. I want something shorter for home defense. I prefer an SBR in the same caliber to prevent caliber creep and to use the same suppressor. Why would I choose a PCC in 9mm, let’s say, over the AR pistol?
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:08 PM (9H7EW)
12
7 It you ever get the chance there's a Titan middle silo with of Tucson that you can tour the inside. Low o of Cool stuff.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM
I wonder if a missile silo would be a good place to have if we ever have a SHTF moment.
Bet that is a big rabbit hole (pun intended) one can go down
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM
I wonder if a missile silo would be a good place to have if we ever have a SHTF moment.
Bet that is a big rabbit hole (pun intended) one can go down
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:09 PM (dZE4s)
13
I taught Bride of PI and youngest daughter to shoot with a .22LR revolver with a 6.5" barrel.
They are both now ringing steel with the entire cylinder.
.22LR is also surprisingly NON-punitive to shoot. I took the gun out first for a test drive. I could barely feel any recoil, and heard only the slightest sound through my hearing protection.
After a few more shots, I was afraid I had gotten a box of CCI squibs, so I peeled my protection off of one ear for the next shot. Squeeze trigger and craaaaaack! Put my ears back on all of the way ... and then focused on fundamentals.
They both love shooting their inexpensive, but very accurate, Heritage Rough Rider.
They are both now ringing steel with the entire cylinder.
.22LR is also surprisingly NON-punitive to shoot. I took the gun out first for a test drive. I could barely feel any recoil, and heard only the slightest sound through my hearing protection.
After a few more shots, I was afraid I had gotten a box of CCI squibs, so I peeled my protection off of one ear for the next shot. Squeeze trigger and craaaaaack! Put my ears back on all of the way ... and then focused on fundamentals.
They both love shooting their inexpensive, but very accurate, Heritage Rough Rider.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:09 PM (HlyYF)
14
Early for a change. Hope everyone of the GunHorde had a great weekend and will have a great week ahead!
Thanks, Weasel, as always. Really appreciated the revolver content of the last few weeks.
Thanks, Weasel, as always. Really appreciated the revolver content of the last few weeks.
Posted by: Coelacanth at August 09, 2026 07:10 PM (rWQH+)
15
Really appreciated the revolver content of the last few weeks.
Posted by: Coelacanth at August 09, 2026 07:10 PM (rWQH+)
----
My pleasure!!
Posted by: Coelacanth at August 09, 2026 07:10 PM (rWQH+)
----
My pleasure!!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:12 PM (jt/rW)
16
PSA for anyone thinking of buying a vintage US Military trench gun: This is one of, if not THE most faked collectibles out there on the market today. With high condition examples of the Winchester 1897 and Winchester Model 12 trench guns now entering the low five figure range, studying up about the inspection markings, inspector stamps, and serial number ranges becomes ever more important. Get a copy of Bruce Canfield's "Complete Guide to United States Military Combat Shotguns" first, before plunking down any serious $$ (because that's what it will take now to buy one of these).
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:13 PM (BCwQW)
17
7 It you ever get the chance there's a Titan middle silo with of Tucson that you can tour the inside. Low o of Cool stuff.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM
We have a Titan II site just catty-corner to our farm. Unfortunately, the site is plugged and abandoned.
I have taken the Boy Scouts over to the site with a map of the facilities. They were able to identify all of the structures (except one) based on the shape and spacing of the concrete caps remaining at the surface.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at August 09, 2026 07:04 PM
We have a Titan II site just catty-corner to our farm. Unfortunately, the site is plugged and abandoned.
I have taken the Boy Scouts over to the site with a map of the facilities. They were able to identify all of the structures (except one) based on the shape and spacing of the concrete caps remaining at the surface.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:14 PM (HlyYF)
18
Good evening fellow enthusiasts.
I started with a G44 figuring it would be a good practice gun but once I started shooting the G48, it was so much more comfortable to shoot, I hardly shoot 22 anymore. Iris's Buckmsrk is much more fun to shoot than the Glock. She shoots the lights out with that gun even at distance.
I started with a G44 figuring it would be a good practice gun but once I started shooting the G48, it was so much more comfortable to shoot, I hardly shoot 22 anymore. Iris's Buckmsrk is much more fun to shoot than the Glock. She shoots the lights out with that gun even at distance.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:15 PM (kJmSS)
19
Good evening gun threaders and all the ships at sea!
Posted by: blaster at August 09, 2026 07:16 PM (NlEaG)
20
Near Abilene, TX there is a place where you can tour an old Atlas ICBM silo.
Posted by: Cow Demon at August 09, 2026 07:16 PM (4g5V+)
21
CMP announced this week they have acquired US Military Winchester 97 surplus and will sell it along with M14's.
Is that what you are referring to Ed L. ?
Is that what you are referring to Ed L. ?
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:17 PM (E4rtv)
22
PSA for anyone thinking of buying a vintage US Military trench gun: This is one of, if not THE most faked collectibles out there on the market today.
Unverified rumor is that the CMP may be getting some legit M 97s in the near future.
Unverified rumor is that the CMP may be getting some legit M 97s in the near future.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 07:17 PM (/R0dg)
23
14 Early for a change. Hope everyone of the GunHorde had a great weekend and will have a great week ahead!
Posted by: Coelacanth at August 09, 2026 07:10 PM
It was just misinformation that Coelacanths had gone extinct!
Posted by: Coelacanth at August 09, 2026 07:10 PM
It was just misinformation that Coelacanths had gone extinct!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:17 PM (HlyYF)
24
"Journey To The Seventh Planet!"
They were going to call it "Journey To Uranus" but were afraid that might attract the wrong audience.
They were going to call it "Journey To Uranus" but were afraid that might attract the wrong audience.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 07:18 PM (MWfyi)
25
Gub threaders. Gub threaders!
Posted by: blaster at August 09, 2026 07:18 PM (NlEaG)
26
It sounds weird, but there was almost something comforting about the Cold War, at least compared to the schizhophrenic foreign policy in recent decades.
Our Air Force was headed by people who had no illusions about the Soviets. The usual suspects had nothing good to say about Curtis LeMay, but he was a stellar individual and a great American. He is probably a big reason why several US cities are not smoking craters, (although it may be hard to tell the difference today). LeMay was criticized through numerous administrations, but it's notable he was kept on through those administrations regardless of political party. There's a reason for that.
Europe was still largely intact in those days as well. They have completely lost the plot.
Our Air Force was headed by people who had no illusions about the Soviets. The usual suspects had nothing good to say about Curtis LeMay, but he was a stellar individual and a great American. He is probably a big reason why several US cities are not smoking craters, (although it may be hard to tell the difference today). LeMay was criticized through numerous administrations, but it's notable he was kept on through those administrations regardless of political party. There's a reason for that.
Europe was still largely intact in those days as well. They have completely lost the plot.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:21 PM (0P8K0)
27
I think a .22 is a good way to keep the fundamentals fresh.
It is also fun as hell plinking with them!!
It is also fun as hell plinking with them!!
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:21 PM (dZE4s)
28
Didn’t Norinco put out repros of the trench broom shotgun? Seem to recall they were considered decent.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM (L7CUp)
29
11 I have a 16” AR in 300 Blk out. I want something shorter for home defense. I prefer an SBR in the same caliber to prevent caliber creep and to use the same suppressor. Why would I choose a PCC in 9mm, let’s say, over the AR pistol?
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack
300 Blackout was designed for short barrels down to about 8 inches (although ballistics suffer a bit at that length. Easy enough to do a 10 inch or so with a suppressor mount upper and current no SBR tax if you send in for the stamp on it. Feds are also looking at simplifying transport of NFA devices across state lines by going online with the application to the ATF.
9mm gains little from longer barrels without handloading, even then mebbe 100-150 fps which can be just enough to raise penetration but actually reduce expansion as self defense bullets are meant to operate at a certain velocity for ideal expansion. Ballistics tests have actually shown that in gel.
So other than cheaper ammo with less terminal velocity, a 9mm is inferior to a 300 Blackout and ironically, felt recoil will not be that different than a 300 Blackout.
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack
300 Blackout was designed for short barrels down to about 8 inches (although ballistics suffer a bit at that length. Easy enough to do a 10 inch or so with a suppressor mount upper and current no SBR tax if you send in for the stamp on it. Feds are also looking at simplifying transport of NFA devices across state lines by going online with the application to the ATF.
9mm gains little from longer barrels without handloading, even then mebbe 100-150 fps which can be just enough to raise penetration but actually reduce expansion as self defense bullets are meant to operate at a certain velocity for ideal expansion. Ballistics tests have actually shown that in gel.
So other than cheaper ammo with less terminal velocity, a 9mm is inferior to a 300 Blackout and ironically, felt recoil will not be that different than a 300 Blackout.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM (E4rtv)
30
That's it for this week - have you been to the range?
- Why, yes.
Anyone out there using the .22 in addition to their regular stuff?
- Why, yes!
Broke out the Christiansen Ranger the other day. It was feeling unused and unloved.
Easy head shots at 200 yards.
I loved it long time.
- Why, yes.
Anyone out there using the .22 in addition to their regular stuff?
- Why, yes!
Broke out the Christiansen Ranger the other day. It was feeling unused and unloved.
Easy head shots at 200 yards.
I loved it long time.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM (ttrGW)
31
Yay! Gubs!
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM (Wnv9h)
32
I have decided to buy the S&W Bodyguard2 spending a little more to get a color and then putting the Viridium optic on after I take possession. Cost will be slightly more but it is still pretty reasonable probably run about $700 including shipping and transfer fee. But buying in VA, I can get two mags which offsets the extra cost. A.so,the range says they can get me any color I want.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM (kJmSS)
33
28 Didn’t Norinco put out repros of the trench broom shotgun? Seem to recall they were considered decent.
Posted by: rhomboid
Yes, those stayed around a bit longer than the Polywell semi auto M-14 rifles but I think sanctions for Norinco's affiliation with the PLA ended up killing imports.
Posted by: rhomboid
Yes, those stayed around a bit longer than the Polywell semi auto M-14 rifles but I think sanctions for Norinco's affiliation with the PLA ended up killing imports.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM (E4rtv)
34
32 I have decided to buy the S&W Bodyguard2 spending a little more to get a color and then putting the Viridium optic on after I take possession. Cost will be slightly more but it is still pretty reasonable probably run about $700 including shipping and transfer fee. But buying in VA, I can get two mags which offsets the extra cost. A.so,the range says they can get me any color I want.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
========
May you enjoy your new firearm.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
========
May you enjoy your new firearm.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:24 PM (E4rtv)
35
CMP announced this week they have acquired US Military Winchester 97 surplus and will sell it along with M14's.
Is that what you are referring to Ed L. ?
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:17 PM (E4rtv)
Yes. The reports I read said that "several hundred" Model 1897s are coming into CMP hands along w/ the M14s. It sounds like most will be in trench gun configuration, but it's possible that riot guns (i.e. w/o heat shields and bayonet lugs) may be in the mix. Since only a few hundred Model 1897s (compared to thousands of M14s) are arriving, I think CMP will auction them off to the highest bidder. If market prices are any indication, I'd be shocked if they didn't.
Is that what you are referring to Ed L. ?
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:17 PM (E4rtv)
Yes. The reports I read said that "several hundred" Model 1897s are coming into CMP hands along w/ the M14s. It sounds like most will be in trench gun configuration, but it's possible that riot guns (i.e. w/o heat shields and bayonet lugs) may be in the mix. Since only a few hundred Model 1897s (compared to thousands of M14s) are arriving, I think CMP will auction them off to the highest bidder. If market prices are any indication, I'd be shocked if they didn't.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:25 PM (BCwQW)
36
Ed L. I was considering getting one of those shotguns, or a repro, about 10 years ago, when thinking about getting into 3-gun, in the "heavy metal" or WWII division. Turned out there were/are no regular 3-gun matches very close, so became moot.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 09, 2026 07:25 PM (U/Byj)
37
When our unit had orders to deploy to the Balkans, I was at a bar in Hawaii (the Sugar Bar on the North Shore) and this old guy, a Viet Nam vet, got all kinds of excited and suggested that a roll of dimes in a shotgun made a really dandy load. I had to explain to him, I wasn't issued a shotgun and probably wasn't going to have to shoot anybody anyhow.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:26 PM (0P8K0)
38
I picked up a variety of Graycliffes for pretty cheap the other month. The Rose Gold torpedo makes a very fine, mild smooth breakfast cigar.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at August 09, 2026 07:26 PM (C0Nlv)
39
Unverified rumor is that the CMP may be getting some legit M 97s in the near future.
Posted by: Oddbob
Not unverified, CMP put it out on X end of this week. From Firearms News--former Shotgun News
Firearms News Magazine
@FirearmsNewsMag
1897 Winchester Trench Guns Coming from the CMP?? YES! Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) CEO Gerald O'Keefe states in addition to the M14 rifles, they are also receiving a quantity of original Winchester M1897 Trench Guns for sale!! What do YOU think, interested in one
Posted by: Oddbob
Not unverified, CMP put it out on X end of this week. From Firearms News--former Shotgun News
Firearms News Magazine
@FirearmsNewsMag
1897 Winchester Trench Guns Coming from the CMP?? YES! Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) CEO Gerald O'Keefe states in addition to the M14 rifles, they are also receiving a quantity of original Winchester M1897 Trench Guns for sale!! What do YOU think, interested in one
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM (E4rtv)
40
Thanks whig, yep that's it, I recall when the Chi-nee stuff was cut off by sanctions. I've seen some of their 1911 knockoffs around and they seemed OK for garden variety 1911s.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM (U/Byj)
41
30 Easy head shots at 200 yards.
I loved it long time.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM
Time to break out the aspirin. :-)
I loved it long time.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM
Time to break out the aspirin. :-)
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM (dZE4s)
42
Good evening Horde. Thanks Weasel!
Posted by: TRex - underground silo dino at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM (/3xb/)
43
I like 22lr, it's perfect for knocking off the occasional raccoon.
Posted by: Eromero at August 09, 2026 07:28 PM (LHPAg)
44
FeatherBlade, thanks for that info. I've yet to try a GrayCliff stick, but I'll note that connecticut as a starting point.
Have to go run an errand, which will interrupt my normal cigar burning/thread reading routine, danggit, but hope to be back before it's "thank you" time.
Have to go run an errand, which will interrupt my normal cigar burning/thread reading routine, danggit, but hope to be back before it's "thank you" time.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 09, 2026 07:28 PM (U/Byj)
45
32 Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM
Have fun with the new toy!!
Have fun with the new toy!!
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:29 PM (dZE4s)
46
That's it for this week - have you been to the range
Technically no. But I've been plinking ground squirrels as I see them.
I just wish it was easier to confirm the kill if you hit them when they're on top of their burrows.
Technically no. But I've been plinking ground squirrels as I see them.
I just wish it was easier to confirm the kill if you hit them when they're on top of their burrows.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at August 09, 2026 07:29 PM (C0Nlv)
47
La Libertad Nicaragua and a cup of Death Wish dark roast tonight.
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:29 PM (zqeQL)
48
One thing I noticed, it takes a while for the .mil to get rid of obsolete issue guns. Our arms rooms were full of interesting stuff that was no longer in the inventory, officially anyway. On the books, but not issued. We had M9s as long as I can recall, but they had all those Colt revolvers, .45 autos, and shotguns, and similar. Probably a pain in the ass for the armorer.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (0P8K0)
49
I was considering getting one of those shotguns, or a repro...
I have a model 12 that dates to 1936 that has already had the barrel chopped pretty much destroying any collectible value. I have thought about sending it off to Bull Creek for conversion. They are very adamant about not faking markings which I respect.
I have a model 12 that dates to 1936 that has already had the barrel chopped pretty much destroying any collectible value. I have thought about sending it off to Bull Creek for conversion. They are very adamant about not faking markings which I respect.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (gpndr)
50
I went to the range but did not shoot. Just mowed and cleaned up. I did manage to pressure wash a finger tip. That's a pain that's going to linger.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 07:32 PM (MWfyi)
51
Europe was still largely intact in those days as well. They have completely lost the plot.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:21 PM (0P8K0)
The Cold War focused minds at least, especially in Europe, on the front lines.
Europe was still largely intact in those days as well. They have completely lost the plot.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:21 PM (0P8K0)
The Cold War focused minds at least, especially in Europe, on the front lines.
Posted by: Cow Demon at August 09, 2026 07:34 PM (4g5V+)
52
37 Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:26 PM
A roll of dime? 5 bucks a shot minimum.
In the Vietnam era you could get 12 gallons of gasoline for 5 bucks. (about 39 cents a gallon in August 1973)
That would be an expensive round
A roll of dime? 5 bucks a shot minimum.
In the Vietnam era you could get 12 gallons of gasoline for 5 bucks. (about 39 cents a gallon in August 1973)
That would be an expensive round
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:34 PM (dZE4s)
53
Have to go run an errand, which will interrupt my normal cigar burning/thread reading routine, danggit, but hope to be back before it's "thank you" time.
Posted by: rhomboid
I've liked every one of the Graycliffs I've tried. The Emerald is a bit spicier than the Rose Gold, the Black Presidente is stronger yet and a bit peppery, the Artisan Triple-wrapper which has a light medium and dark wrapper all on the same stick is an excellent variety experience.
Posted by: rhomboid
I've liked every one of the Graycliffs I've tried. The Emerald is a bit spicier than the Rose Gold, the Black Presidente is stronger yet and a bit peppery, the Artisan Triple-wrapper which has a light medium and dark wrapper all on the same stick is an excellent variety experience.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at August 09, 2026 07:34 PM (C0Nlv)
54
Why would I choose a PCC in 9mm, let’s say, over the AR pistol?
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:08 PM
Hi Point has come out with their HP-15. It comes in 5.56 or 300BLK. It has a 10.5" threaded barrel. That should be about optimal to fire some slow, fat .300 rounds that could even be sub-sonic for your home defense needs.
Numerous parts (on that model) are mil-spec, so it is priced above most Hi Point guns. However, it is still very affordable at $540 MSRP.
https://tinyurl.com/555e6h7c
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:08 PM
Hi Point has come out with their HP-15. It comes in 5.56 or 300BLK. It has a 10.5" threaded barrel. That should be about optimal to fire some slow, fat .300 rounds that could even be sub-sonic for your home defense needs.
Numerous parts (on that model) are mil-spec, so it is priced above most Hi Point guns. However, it is still very affordable at $540 MSRP.
https://tinyurl.com/555e6h7c
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:35 PM (HlyYF)
55
Canfield's book has anecdotal accounts that report observed examples of Model 1897 shotguns during the Vietnam era were in rough shape after seeing heavy use in two world wars, Korea, and who knows how many small fracases around the world. Heat shields were a mishmash or WWI and WWII types. Butt plates were very rarely original. Most had had the original plastic replaced with steel, aluminum, or rubber butt plates. If you decide to get one, don't think you'll get a bright, shiny, pristine firearm. Most 1897 trench guns were ridden hard and put away wet by the time Vietnam rolled around.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:35 PM (BCwQW)
56
Interesting discussion on the Idaho In-N-Out shooting, and the lessons CCW folks might consider:
https://tinyurl.com/2y7x734j
https://tinyurl.com/2y7x734j
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 07:37 PM (0sNs1)
57
41 30 Easy head shots at 200 yards.
I loved it long time.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM
Time to break out the aspirin. :-)
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM
If Red shoots me at 200 yards with his .22, I am going to need something much stronger than aspirin!
I loved it long time.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 07:22 PM
Time to break out the aspirin. :-)
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:27 PM
If Red shoots me at 200 yards with his .22, I am going to need something much stronger than aspirin!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:38 PM (HlyYF)
58
Since only a few hundred Model 1897s (compared to thousands of M14s) are arriving, I think CMP will auction them off to the highest bidder. If market prices are any indication, I'd be shocked if they didn't.
Posted by: Ed L
Probably. CMP is in the business to make money to support youth marksmanship and since the auctions for the rarer Garand and Carbine versions were successful, I suspect the same will go here. Bit more M14s, apparently over 200k by some accounts.
Posted by: Ed L
Probably. CMP is in the business to make money to support youth marksmanship and since the auctions for the rarer Garand and Carbine versions were successful, I suspect the same will go here. Bit more M14s, apparently over 200k by some accounts.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM (E4rtv)
59
If Red shoots me at 200 yards with his .22, I am going to need something much stronger than aspirin!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:38 PM (HlyYF)
-----
Don't let him get that close!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:38 PM (HlyYF)
-----
Don't let him get that close!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM (zqeQL)
60
I actually have my Dad’s .22LR Army training rifle. One of these very ones that are mentioned.
The sights are seriously unique but when dialed in, enable it to be a very accurate tack driver. My Godfather says he still has his too. They were enlisted at the same time. Odd that they were able to keep them upon discharge from the army.
The “metal” detaches from the wood sock, and stores in a green storage bag. Have that too, but unfortunately the leather strap to hold it closed is deteriorated and gone.
The sights are seriously unique but when dialed in, enable it to be a very accurate tack driver. My Godfather says he still has his too. They were enlisted at the same time. Odd that they were able to keep them upon discharge from the army.
The “metal” detaches from the wood sock, and stores in a green storage bag. Have that too, but unfortunately the leather strap to hold it closed is deteriorated and gone.
Posted by: Gunslinger at August 09, 2026 07:40 PM (N91F8)
61
I have a model 12 that dates to 1936 that has already had the barrel chopped pretty much destroying any collectible value. I have thought about sending it off to Bull Creek for conversion. They are very adamant about not faking markings which I respect.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (gpndr)
Bull Creek does good work. I had a US surplus Model 12 riot gun someone converted to trench gun configuration (and bungled it) fixed up there for what I thought was a reasonable price.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (gpndr)
Bull Creek does good work. I had a US surplus Model 12 riot gun someone converted to trench gun configuration (and bungled it) fixed up there for what I thought was a reasonable price.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:40 PM (BCwQW)
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:40 PM (HlyYF)
63
40 Thanks whig, yep that's it, I recall when the Chi-nee stuff was cut off by sanctions. I've seen some of their 1911 knockoffs around and they seemed OK for garden variety 1911s.
Posted by: rhomboid
I seem to remember shotguns were the last firearm Norinco was allowed to sell (sporting purposes I think is why) and IRRC, it was the mid 2000's under GWB. Norinco was treated gently by Clinton as SKS versions flowed in from Norinco until he left office.
Posted by: rhomboid
I seem to remember shotguns were the last firearm Norinco was allowed to sell (sporting purposes I think is why) and IRRC, it was the mid 2000's under GWB. Norinco was treated gently by Clinton as SKS versions flowed in from Norinco until he left office.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:42 PM (E4rtv)
64
Weasel, would you
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:42 PM (BCwQW)
65
Thanks Whig, Scubs
It is probably going to take a couple of weeks to get everything in place maybe more if the range has to order it. But they had a really nice one in stock so just have to hope,it's still there. Kind of a red wine color. And 7 day waiting period in MD once it gets to my FFL.
Huge thanks to Blaster who discovered that the Viridium was made especially for the Bodyguard so fits perfectly replacing the rear sight and does not require any gunsmithing.
It is probably going to take a couple of weeks to get everything in place maybe more if the range has to order it. But they had a really nice one in stock so just have to hope,it's still there. Kind of a red wine color. And 7 day waiting period in MD once it gets to my FFL.
Huge thanks to Blaster who discovered that the Viridium was made especially for the Bodyguard so fits perfectly replacing the rear sight and does not require any gunsmithing.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:42 PM (kJmSS)
66
I always thought it made sense to issue a rifle upon enlistment, and it's yours. You get to keep it, through your entire time in service, from duty station to duty station. And then take it home with you upon honorable discharge.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (0P8K0)
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (zqeQL)
68
Weasel, would you put in a bid on a CMP Model 1897?
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (BCwQW)
69
59 If Red shoots me at 200 yards with his .22, I am going to need something much stronger than aspirin!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:38 PM
-----
Don't let him get that close!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM
If he keeps working on his long-range fundamentals, I am a little worried he might be able to hit me ... from Rhode Island.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:38 PM
-----
Don't let him get that close!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM
If he keeps working on his long-range fundamentals, I am a little worried he might be able to hit me ... from Rhode Island.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (HlyYF)
70
A.so,the range says they can get me any color I want.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM
You *are* going to get one of the 'ette Fashion Colours, right?
Between taupe, fawn, sea foam, ecru, and fuchsia, you have quite the choice.
The correct answer is, of course, at least one of each!
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:23 PM
You *are* going to get one of the 'ette Fashion Colours, right?
Between taupe, fawn, sea foam, ecru, and fuchsia, you have quite the choice.
The correct answer is, of course, at least one of each!
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (0sNs1)
71
59 Don't let him get that close!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM
Heed the words of The Weasel
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:39 PM
Heed the words of The Weasel
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (dZE4s)
72
60 I actually have my Dad’s .22LR Army training rifle. One of these very ones that are mentioned.
The sights are seriously unique but when dialed in, enable it to be a very accurate tack driver. My Godfather says he still has his too. They were enlisted at the same time. Odd that they were able to keep them upon discharge from the army.
The “metal” detaches from the wood sock, and stores in a green storage bag. Have that too, but unfortunately the leather strap to hold it closed is deteriorated and gone.
Posted by: Gunslinger
US used several different versions of 22 LR training rifles--Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, even Savage on their Steven's brand from WWII onwards. CMP used to sell those too but ran out somewhere in the 00's. I think Clinton had a bunch of them destroyed as well in the 90's.
The sights are seriously unique but when dialed in, enable it to be a very accurate tack driver. My Godfather says he still has his too. They were enlisted at the same time. Odd that they were able to keep them upon discharge from the army.
The “metal” detaches from the wood sock, and stores in a green storage bag. Have that too, but unfortunately the leather strap to hold it closed is deteriorated and gone.
Posted by: Gunslinger
US used several different versions of 22 LR training rifles--Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, even Savage on their Steven's brand from WWII onwards. CMP used to sell those too but ran out somewhere in the 00's. I think Clinton had a bunch of them destroyed as well in the 90's.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:44 PM (E4rtv)
73
Dimes in a 12 gauge? Only if they are pre-1964 dimes, and werewolves have been spotted in the area.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 09, 2026 07:44 PM (hj9Cy)
74
Weasel, would you put in a bid on a CMP Model 1897?
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (BCwQW)
-----
I doubt it. I think my active collecting days are kaput.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:43 PM (BCwQW)
-----
I doubt it. I think my active collecting days are kaput.
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:45 PM (zqeQL)
75
A roll of dimes? 5 bucks a shot minimum
----
That, and silver is a lot heavier than the chucky cheese coins they press out now. Ballistically it probably makes some difference, I dunno. He was really enthusiastic about this, sorta creeped me out a bit. LOL
----
That, and silver is a lot heavier than the chucky cheese coins they press out now. Ballistically it probably makes some difference, I dunno. He was really enthusiastic about this, sorta creeped me out a bit. LOL
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:45 PM (0P8K0)
76
Thanks for the Gub Thread, Weasel.
(I need to sneak out of the thread and go grill, since Bride of PI put together some kabobs!)
(I need to sneak out of the thread and go grill, since Bride of PI put together some kabobs!)
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:46 PM (HlyYF)
77
Hi PI
Your testimony was one of the deciding factors. I also shot a G42 in 380 and had no problems so that also helped because I couldn't actually shoot one.
You can tell they want to attract women shooters because the gun comes in like 12 colors including pink and two different purples. There is also one that looks like a spotted cow.
Your testimony was one of the deciding factors. I also shot a G42 in 380 and had no problems so that also helped because I couldn't actually shoot one.
You can tell they want to attract women shooters because the gun comes in like 12 colors including pink and two different purples. There is also one that looks like a spotted cow.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:47 PM (kJmSS)
78
(I need to sneak out of the thread and go grill, since Bride of PI put together some kabobs!)
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:46 PM (HlyYF)
----
Lucky!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at August 09, 2026 07:46 PM (HlyYF)
----
Lucky!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:47 PM (zqeQL)
79
65 Thanks Whig, Scubs
It is probably going to take a couple of weeks to get everything in place maybe more if the range has to order it. But they had a really nice one in stock so just have to hope,it's still there. Kind of a red wine color. And 7 day waiting period in MD once it gets to my FFL.
Huge thanks to Blaster who discovered that the Viridium was made especially for the Bodyguard so fits perfectly replacing the rear sight and does not require any gunsmithing.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
========
Nice. I have had good luck with Viridium products albeit not their holoscopic handgun sights. Ironically Smith bought out Crimson Trace and now puts some Crimson Trace holo sights on at the factory for some models.
Changing sights is a pita. I have the sight pushers, punches, vises, etc. to do it but it is still unpleasant as other than Glock or the few mfgs still using roll pin retainers, etc., you have to pound the sights in and out.
It is probably going to take a couple of weeks to get everything in place maybe more if the range has to order it. But they had a really nice one in stock so just have to hope,it's still there. Kind of a red wine color. And 7 day waiting period in MD once it gets to my FFL.
Huge thanks to Blaster who discovered that the Viridium was made especially for the Bodyguard so fits perfectly replacing the rear sight and does not require any gunsmithing.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
========
Nice. I have had good luck with Viridium products albeit not their holoscopic handgun sights. Ironically Smith bought out Crimson Trace and now puts some Crimson Trace holo sights on at the factory for some models.
Changing sights is a pita. I have the sight pushers, punches, vises, etc. to do it but it is still unpleasant as other than Glock or the few mfgs still using roll pin retainers, etc., you have to pound the sights in and out.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:48 PM (E4rtv)
80
Hi Point is a 2nd choice manufacturer after Radical Firearms.
300 subsonic is the internets’ choice also. I am inclined to go with RF to simplify the supply chain.
I see that AR’s in 22lr are not cheap, but, the bolt actions are.
Thanks for the comments Whig and PIA.
Time to do the dishes
300 subsonic is the internets’ choice also. I am inclined to go with RF to simplify the supply chain.
I see that AR’s in 22lr are not cheap, but, the bolt actions are.
Thanks for the comments Whig and PIA.
Time to do the dishes
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:49 PM (28cZF)
81
It's a little bit funny, (intentional song reference) but when living in California, I had so much access to desert shooting that going to a range seemed to be more trouble than it was worth. It helped that my friends there were savvy gun owners (prior to the massive San Andreas Canoe Incident) offering instruction in addition to derisive ridicule..
Anyway. My AR 7 Henry Survival rifle has seen little (read, no) action in the last 12 months, save a few days in Corsicana. (NDA/Omerta restrictions may apply)
I am aware of outdoor ranges in my general area. I guess I need to make the effort and get out to one..
Anyway. My AR 7 Henry Survival rifle has seen little (read, no) action in the last 12 months, save a few days in Corsicana. (NDA/Omerta restrictions may apply)
I am aware of outdoor ranges in my general area. I guess I need to make the effort and get out to one..
Posted by: Joe Kidd at August 09, 2026 07:49 PM (nbLIj)
82
66 I always thought it made sense to issue a rifle upon enlistment, and it's yours. You get to keep it, through your entire time in service, from duty station to duty station. And then take it home with you upon honorable discharge.
Posted by: Common Tater
=========
Swiss did that IRRC until they started issuing full auto--one of my K31's has the guy's name under the butt plate.
Posted by: Common Tater
=========
Swiss did that IRRC until they started issuing full auto--one of my K31's has the guy's name under the butt plate.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:49 PM (E4rtv)
83
Some years back somebody was offering Colt ARs with Hello Kitty emblazoned on the stock. True story
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:50 PM (0P8K0)
84
I have a Winchester 97 as a family heirloom type. I prefer my heritage Auto 5 though.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:51 PM (E4rtv)
85
I use an old Pelican 1170 case I had laying around as a humidor for my daily cigar stash. Periodically the latches wear out, but you can get replacements from Color Case on Amazon (or direct, I suppose). Anyhoo, replacement is easy with a drift punch and small hammer. Just FYI.
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 07:52 PM (zqeQL)
86
One of my buddies had a (I think) Swedish mauser of some strange caliber. Very high quality receiver and barrel, I thought. But you weren't gonna find ammo at the Holiday gas station.
I noticed rural NAPA stores sell ammunition, btw. How cool is that? I mean, you probably can't get 10w30 at the gun shop.
I noticed rural NAPA stores sell ammunition, btw. How cool is that? I mean, you probably can't get 10w30 at the gun shop.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:53 PM (0P8K0)
87
Here is the range of colors
https://tinyurl.com/3hraf5nf
Whig, the Viridium for the Bodyguard is a piece of cake to install. Just need sight pusher.
IMPORTANT: No optic cut, adapter plate, or gunsmithing required. Installation replaces the factory rear sight using the existing dovetail.
https://tinyurl.com/3hraf5nf
Whig, the Viridium for the Bodyguard is a piece of cake to install. Just need sight pusher.
IMPORTANT: No optic cut, adapter plate, or gunsmithing required. Installation replaces the factory rear sight using the existing dovetail.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 07:53 PM (kJmSS)
88
What do AF missile crews do every day?
Same thing as AF alert aircraft crews: sit on their butts.
A LOT of reading, shelf checks at the BX/Commissary*, and working out at the gym. With occasional scrambles to the a/c or seats in the silo to run an exercise which you really hope IS an exercise. And you fiddle with maintenance and training (which involves more reading) and Professional Military Studies (which involves even MOAR reading).
(* Missileers don't get shelf checks. They can do fridge checks, I guess. And their gym is whatever was put in the house stop their facility.)
Same thing as AF alert aircraft crews: sit on their butts.
A LOT of reading, shelf checks at the BX/Commissary*, and working out at the gym. With occasional scrambles to the a/c or seats in the silo to run an exercise which you really hope IS an exercise. And you fiddle with maintenance and training (which involves more reading) and Professional Military Studies (which involves even MOAR reading).
(* Missileers don't get shelf checks. They can do fridge checks, I guess. And their gym is whatever was put in the house stop their facility.)
Posted by: GWB at August 09, 2026 07:53 PM (jTXkU)
89
I see that AR’s in 22lr are not cheap, but, the bolt actions are.
Thanks for the comments Whig and PIA.
Time to do the dishes
Posted by: Accomack
Cheaper to just buy one of the replica ARs for shooting 22 LR than building an upper. Lots of used Smith and Wessons, Colts made my Umarex, and even some fake AR types (look like them but use a regular 22 LR receiver, Mossberg did that among others. You can get a 22 LR version of the H&K 416 if you want too.
Thanks for the comments Whig and PIA.
Time to do the dishes
Posted by: Accomack
Cheaper to just buy one of the replica ARs for shooting 22 LR than building an upper. Lots of used Smith and Wessons, Colts made my Umarex, and even some fake AR types (look like them but use a regular 22 LR receiver, Mossberg did that among others. You can get a 22 LR version of the H&K 416 if you want too.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:54 PM (E4rtv)
90
One thing I noticed, it takes a while for the .mil to get rid of obsolete issue guns. Our arms rooms were full of interesting stuff that was no longer in the inventory, officially anyway. On the books, but not issued. We had M9s as long as I can recall, but they had all those Colt revolvers, .45 autos, and shotguns, and similar. Probably a pain in the ass for the armorer.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (0P8K0)
My old South Dakota Army National Guard unit had swapped out their old M16A1s and 1911s for M16A2s (newly FN manufactured) and M9s by 1994. But they still had over a dozen Winchester Model 12 trench guns in the arms room. The Gulf War vets said that they'd dragged those to Saudi and used them for local guard duty and POW guard work. They said that the regular Army guys really wanted those things but wouldn't let them go for anything. Even then, a sword attached to pump action shotgun was still an eye catcher.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 07:30 PM (0P8K0)
My old South Dakota Army National Guard unit had swapped out their old M16A1s and 1911s for M16A2s (newly FN manufactured) and M9s by 1994. But they still had over a dozen Winchester Model 12 trench guns in the arms room. The Gulf War vets said that they'd dragged those to Saudi and used them for local guard duty and POW guard work. They said that the regular Army guys really wanted those things but wouldn't let them go for anything. Even then, a sword attached to pump action shotgun was still an eye catcher.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 07:56 PM (BCwQW)
91
Good Sunday evening, gub 'ettes and 'rons, and an a-plinking greeting to our host Weasel!
(Yeah, I know it's lame, but they can't all be gems!)
Particularly enjoyed the Armed Attorneys in the video clips. I've learned much from watching their videos.
(Yeah, I know it's lame, but they can't all be gems!)
Particularly enjoyed the Armed Attorneys in the video clips. I've learned much from watching their videos.
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at August 09, 2026 07:56 PM (xVpNO)
92
Whig, the Viridium for the Bodyguard is a piece of cake to install. Just need sight pusher.
IMPORTANT: No optic cut, adapter plate, or gunsmithing required. Installation replaces the factory rear sight using the existing dovetail.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
Ok. That is what you meant, I thought it came as optics ready slide like a lot of the others.
Never tackled a Bodyguard sight but Smith's M&P and the older 3rd Generation sights are a pita to remove, I had to use a punch, plenty of penetrating oil, and after starting it, then I could use the sight pusher. If they have the MGW Sight Tool with the right shoe, the guys at the shop can swap it in a matter of minutes.
IMPORTANT: No optic cut, adapter plate, or gunsmithing required. Installation replaces the factory rear sight using the existing dovetail.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)
Ok. That is what you meant, I thought it came as optics ready slide like a lot of the others.
Never tackled a Bodyguard sight but Smith's M&P and the older 3rd Generation sights are a pita to remove, I had to use a punch, plenty of penetrating oil, and after starting it, then I could use the sight pusher. If they have the MGW Sight Tool with the right shoe, the guys at the shop can swap it in a matter of minutes.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:57 PM (E4rtv)
93
I noticed rural NAPA stores sell ammunition, btw. How cool is that? I mean, you probably can't get 10w30 at the gun shop.
Posted by: Common Tater
======
You can, 10w30 is just sold in a small bottle and called gun oil for a much higher price. Mobil One is over qualified for firearm use and pretty darn cheap by the quart.
Lot of hokum in gun oil sales.
Posted by: Common Tater
======
You can, 10w30 is just sold in a small bottle and called gun oil for a much higher price. Mobil One is over qualified for firearm use and pretty darn cheap by the quart.
Lot of hokum in gun oil sales.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:59 PM (E4rtv)
94
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:59 PM (E4rtv)
------
Mobil 1 is what I use. Still on my original quart I think!
------
Mobil 1 is what I use. Still on my original quart I think!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 08:01 PM (zqeQL)
95
Mobil 1 is what I use. Still on my original quart I think!
Posted by: Weasel
======
I have tried a bunch--the only one I detested was Froglube--I tested it first on an old bolt action military surplus and the stuff oxidized into a mess despite following the directions explicitly.
I use evil petroleum based oils since that test went sour. It was about on par with cleaning cosmolene except it smelled like rancid mint.
Posted by: Weasel
======
I have tried a bunch--the only one I detested was Froglube--I tested it first on an old bolt action military surplus and the stuff oxidized into a mess despite following the directions explicitly.
I use evil petroleum based oils since that test went sour. It was about on par with cleaning cosmolene except it smelled like rancid mint.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:03 PM (E4rtv)
96
Lot of hokum in gun oil sales.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:59 PM (E4rtv)
A while back, a seller of a super-secret formula, gee whiz bang gun lube took great umbrage when it was announced their product was actually straight canola oil.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 07:59 PM (E4rtv)
A while back, a seller of a super-secret formula, gee whiz bang gun lube took great umbrage when it was announced their product was actually straight canola oil.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 09, 2026 08:05 PM (hj9Cy)
97
I had an interesting - read, irritating - experience this weekend.
For family reasons I did a 5-state round trip, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, MA, NH. For 4 of those states, I am licensed or Constitutional Carry.
However, because CT was in the mix, I had to disarm myself, have a gun with max 10 round magazine, and separate gun and mags into separate locked boxes in the trunk.
In an incident like the Idaho In n Out, that puts me at an extreme disadvantage.
Whine over.
For family reasons I did a 5-state round trip, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, MA, NH. For 4 of those states, I am licensed or Constitutional Carry.
However, because CT was in the mix, I had to disarm myself, have a gun with max 10 round magazine, and separate gun and mags into separate locked boxes in the trunk.
In an incident like the Idaho In n Out, that puts me at an extreme disadvantage.
Whine over.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 08:06 PM (iB8Z+)
98
Shot my CZ 52 toiday and last friday. I like it. One big issue, the front sight is so thin and my eyes are so farsighted that I can barely make work. 7.62 Tok is cool.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at August 09, 2026 08:07 PM (P4bJX)
99
Common Tater,
Apart from the oil business, I have a weakness for Swedish Mausers but the original cartridge is just fine 6.5x55 Swede is an excellent hunting and target cartridge.
It is a long action Mauser and I have seen people convert them to even 30-06 but personally I wouldn't unless I handloaded them.
Ironically an easy conversion without altering the bolt face is to the French 7.5 used in their MAS series rifles. That was based on the 6.5 Swede which has a larger cartridge base than either the Argentine or Spanish Mausers.
Apart from the oil business, I have a weakness for Swedish Mausers but the original cartridge is just fine 6.5x55 Swede is an excellent hunting and target cartridge.
It is a long action Mauser and I have seen people convert them to even 30-06 but personally I wouldn't unless I handloaded them.
Ironically an easy conversion without altering the bolt face is to the French 7.5 used in their MAS series rifles. That was based on the 6.5 Swede which has a larger cartridge base than either the Argentine or Spanish Mausers.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:09 PM (E4rtv)
100
Vegetable oils - like Canola - are stupid to use anywhere near firearms. They turn rancid, and sticky. They aren't worth a fuck for cooking for that matter. Nasty stuff.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 08:09 PM (0P8K0)
101
Cheaper to just buy one of the replica ARs for shooting 22 LR than building an upper.
If you already own a 5.56 AR and are OK with minute-of-tin-can accuracy, the CMMG conversion kits are the best $/fun deal on the market.
If you already own a 5.56 AR and are OK with minute-of-tin-can accuracy, the CMMG conversion kits are the best $/fun deal on the market.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 08:11 PM (vTZFs)
102
I use crushed walnut media in a vibratory tumbler to clean brass. A teeeeeensy little bag of the stuff made for cleaning brass requires a 2nd mortgage. An enormous lifetime supply bag of lizard bedding from the per store, which is the same thing, is about $12.
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 08:11 PM (zqeQL)
103
A while back, a seller of a super-secret formula, gee whiz bang gun lube took great umbrage when it was announced their product was actually straight canola oil.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
=======
The enviromentally friendly stuff is basically vegetable/seed oil which can work in a pinch but it has the nasty habit of oxidizing and turning into sludge with constant reoiling to work the old crap out of the action. Nasty though for semi autos.
If you must, food grade mineral oil, Lubriplate grease used for the Garand, or Ballistol which is mineral oil with a few more ingredients are safe as the seed/vegetable oil gunk.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
=======
The enviromentally friendly stuff is basically vegetable/seed oil which can work in a pinch but it has the nasty habit of oxidizing and turning into sludge with constant reoiling to work the old crap out of the action. Nasty though for semi autos.
If you must, food grade mineral oil, Lubriplate grease used for the Garand, or Ballistol which is mineral oil with a few more ingredients are safe as the seed/vegetable oil gunk.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:11 PM (E4rtv)
104
Per = pet
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 08:12 PM (zqeQL)
105
Some years back somebody was offering Colt ARs with Hello Kitty emblazoned on the stock. True story
Posted by: Common Tater
More like Goodbye Kitty.
Some years back somebody was offering Colt ARs with Hello Kitty emblazoned on the stock. True story
Posted by: Common Tater
More like Goodbye Kitty.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at August 09, 2026 08:12 PM (Cqx++)
106
If you already own a 5.56 AR and are OK with minute-of-tin-can accuracy, the CMMG conversion kits are the best $/fun deal on the market.
Posted by: Oddbob
Yeah, not for me. When I went to AF basic, we had those damn 22 LR adapters for the clapped out M-16s and they jammed frequently and spread nasty crap into the receiver after qualification. But since we were trainees, we had to clean the rifles from the crap that the MTU fired, then clean up our own nasty 22 LR fouling.
I can see using an old AR receiver for only 22 LR but I don't want that fouling in a serious purpose AR. Easier just to get a Smith, clone AR built for blowback 22 LR as I keep my rifles clean but hate cleaning rim fire ammo fouling.
I kept pricing 22 LR upper builds but never could make the math work--CMMG is one of your better sources if you want to roll your own components for the upper.
Posted by: Oddbob
Yeah, not for me. When I went to AF basic, we had those damn 22 LR adapters for the clapped out M-16s and they jammed frequently and spread nasty crap into the receiver after qualification. But since we were trainees, we had to clean the rifles from the crap that the MTU fired, then clean up our own nasty 22 LR fouling.
I can see using an old AR receiver for only 22 LR but I don't want that fouling in a serious purpose AR. Easier just to get a Smith, clone AR built for blowback 22 LR as I keep my rifles clean but hate cleaning rim fire ammo fouling.
I kept pricing 22 LR upper builds but never could make the math work--CMMG is one of your better sources if you want to roll your own components for the upper.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:16 PM (E4rtv)
107
102 I use crushed walnut media in a vibratory tumbler to clean brass. A teeeeeensy little bag of the stuff made for cleaning brass requires a 2nd mortgage. An enormous lifetime supply bag of lizard bedding from the per store, which is the same thing, is about $12.
Posted by: Weasel
I used to use walnut but moved to wet tumbling and ultrasonic by 2019 or so. Got tired of picking out media from flashholes as I decap on a different press outside and used to vibrate decapped brass. Kept the lead styphanate from the primer and fouling crap residue down in the media and cleaned the pockets a bit. Wet tumbling though worked for me even better.
Posted by: Weasel
I used to use walnut but moved to wet tumbling and ultrasonic by 2019 or so. Got tired of picking out media from flashholes as I decap on a different press outside and used to vibrate decapped brass. Kept the lead styphanate from the primer and fouling crap residue down in the media and cleaned the pockets a bit. Wet tumbling though worked for me even better.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:19 PM (E4rtv)
108
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:21 PM (kzq+c)
109
Gunsmith and competitive shooter Patrick Sweeney did a torture test on AR rifles for one of his volumes on the AR. Some guy used butter to lubricate just for kicks to see if it could be done and apparently the firing line smelled a bit like a movie theater selling buttered popcorn.
And yes, it could be done.
And yes, it could be done.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:22 PM (E4rtv)
110
98 Shot my CZ 52 toiday and last friday. I like it. One big issue, the front sight is so thin and my eyes are so farsighted that I can barely make work. 7.62 Tok is cool.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe
=======
That and the Mauser 7.63 were the original high velocity low weight bullet rockets. CZ made and still makes good firearms even if their designs are a bit different than US or even other Euro countries. Yugoslavia did the same thing.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe
=======
That and the Mauser 7.63 were the original high velocity low weight bullet rockets. CZ made and still makes good firearms even if their designs are a bit different than US or even other Euro countries. Yugoslavia did the same thing.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:25 PM (E4rtv)
111
For those using Mobil-1 on high round count guns, consider getting Mobile-1 Extended mileage, with extra protectants.
;-)
;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:27 PM (0sNs1)
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 08:28 PM (0P8K0)
113
97 I had an interesting - read, irritating - experience this weekend.
For family reasons I did a 5-state round trip, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, MA, NH. For 4 of those states, I am licensed or Constitutional Carry.
However, because CT was in the mix, I had to disarm myself, have a gun with max 10 round magazine, and separate gun and mags into separate locked boxes in the trunk.
In an incident like the Idaho In n Out, that puts me at an extreme disadvantage.
Whine over.
Posted by: RI Red
I am fortunate at least for now, that I don't have the problem as all the Southern states I would have to pass through are constitutional carry now in vehicles. Sorry for y'all though and Mass ended up losing Smith and Wesson to Maryville TN just recently over it despite Smith being there for over 150 years in Springfield Mass.
And the Smith and Wesson training academy is now reopening in Maryville, TN (close to Knoxville) as well.
For family reasons I did a 5-state round trip, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, MA, NH. For 4 of those states, I am licensed or Constitutional Carry.
However, because CT was in the mix, I had to disarm myself, have a gun with max 10 round magazine, and separate gun and mags into separate locked boxes in the trunk.
In an incident like the Idaho In n Out, that puts me at an extreme disadvantage.
Whine over.
Posted by: RI Red
I am fortunate at least for now, that I don't have the problem as all the Southern states I would have to pass through are constitutional carry now in vehicles. Sorry for y'all though and Mass ended up losing Smith and Wesson to Maryville TN just recently over it despite Smith being there for over 150 years in Springfield Mass.
And the Smith and Wesson training academy is now reopening in Maryville, TN (close to Knoxville) as well.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:28 PM (E4rtv)
114
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:21 PM
Sez the soon-to-be-grannie.
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:21 PM
Sez the soon-to-be-grannie.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:29 PM (0sNs1)
115
Interesting about the gun oil remarks…
I don’t use a ton, but have always used Remoil “With Teflon!” Apparently, you indicate it’s snake oil, but I never felt put out by the $5 price for 2oz…
I always have some Mobile 1 around for the boat motor(s) so that’s my new lube from now on.
Thanks all, for the recommendation.
I don’t use a ton, but have always used Remoil “With Teflon!” Apparently, you indicate it’s snake oil, but I never felt put out by the $5 price for 2oz…
I always have some Mobile 1 around for the boat motor(s) so that’s my new lube from now on.
Thanks all, for the recommendation.
Posted by: Gunslinger at August 09, 2026 08:29 PM (N91F8)
116
111 For those using Mobil-1 on high round count guns, consider getting Mobile-1 Extended mileage, with extra protectants.
;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax
I am a Sunday little old lady type driver of my firearms nowadays. Mine are happy just to be taken out of the safe and lubed once per year right now.
;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax
I am a Sunday little old lady type driver of my firearms nowadays. Mine are happy just to be taken out of the safe and lubed once per year right now.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:30 PM (E4rtv)
117
Hi weasel!
I got to shoot outside! We had a steel silhouette with a plate in the middle I was trying to hit at 100 yards. Did t hit the play but hit the silhouette.
With a 9mm pistol.
I got to shoot outside! We had a steel silhouette with a plate in the middle I was trying to hit at 100 yards. Did t hit the play but hit the silhouette.
With a 9mm pistol.
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:31 PM (yEz+x)
118
For those using Mobil-1 on high round count guns, consider getting Mobile-1 Extended mileage, with extra protectants.
;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:27 PM (0sNs1)
My body is getting to be high round count. I think I’ll add the Mobil 1 Extended Mileage to my morning geritol.
;-)
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:27 PM (0sNs1)
My body is getting to be high round count. I think I’ll add the Mobil 1 Extended Mileage to my morning geritol.
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 08:31 PM (iB8Z+)
119
Sez the soon-to-be-grannie.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
I pity the fool who messes with my DiL or granddaughter.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
I pity the fool who messes with my DiL or granddaughter.
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:32 PM (yEz+x)
Posted by: The Woodpeckers at August 09, 2026 08:33 PM (Wnv9h)
121
115 Interesting about the gun oil remarks…
I don’t use a ton, but have always used Remoil “With Teflon!” Apparently, you indicate it’s snake oil, but I never felt put out by the $5 price for 2oz…
I always have some Mobile 1 around for the boat motor(s) so that’s my new lube from now on.
Thanks all, for the recommendation.
Posted by: Gunslinger
Go to Amazon, buy some empty oil dispensing bottles with needle tips. Cost about $5-10 bucks. Use the Mobil One in it.
On some, I use grease on rails instead of oil because it tends to stay put better in a ccw holster situation. Revolvers, I use a real light weight CLP type oil and a needle dispenser because they don't need much oil and it can attract dust, etc. if you over oil them.
I don’t use a ton, but have always used Remoil “With Teflon!” Apparently, you indicate it’s snake oil, but I never felt put out by the $5 price for 2oz…
I always have some Mobile 1 around for the boat motor(s) so that’s my new lube from now on.
Thanks all, for the recommendation.
Posted by: Gunslinger
Go to Amazon, buy some empty oil dispensing bottles with needle tips. Cost about $5-10 bucks. Use the Mobil One in it.
On some, I use grease on rails instead of oil because it tends to stay put better in a ccw holster situation. Revolvers, I use a real light weight CLP type oil and a needle dispenser because they don't need much oil and it can attract dust, etc. if you over oil them.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:33 PM (E4rtv)
122
Any motor oil is better than none. I've poured it straight from a quart bottle into my Garand. It likes it sloppy.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 08:34 PM (MWfyi)
123
My body is getting to be high round count. I think I’ll add the Mobil 1 Extended Mileage to my morning geritol.
Posted by: RI Red
Pretty sure it will clean you out for a colonoscopy after.
Posted by: RI Red
Pretty sure it will clean you out for a colonoscopy after.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:34 PM (E4rtv)
124
FFS, lady, calm down!!!
Posted by: The Woodpeckers
Stop banging on my metal gutters you bastards!
Posted by: The Woodpeckers
Stop banging on my metal gutters you bastards!
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (yEz+x)
125
I have a 16” AR in 300 Blk out. I want something shorter for home defense. I prefer an SBR in the same caliber to prevent caliber creep and to use the same suppressor. Why would I choose a PCC in 9mm, let’s say, over the AR pistol?
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
SilencerShop vs ATF: court ruled in favor of SilencerShop so that Tax Stamp (killed by BBB) and now the paperwork (killed by court a few days ago) allows you to buy the ultimate package:
Desert Tech WLVN Micron in 300BLK. Get the extended hand grip and attach a CGS Hyperion K Suppressor.
Everyone on the planet will envy you as that rig is 8 lbs with gun, Trijicon and suppressor and is Hollywood quiet.
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
SilencerShop vs ATF: court ruled in favor of SilencerShop so that Tax Stamp (killed by BBB) and now the paperwork (killed by court a few days ago) allows you to buy the ultimate package:
Desert Tech WLVN Micron in 300BLK. Get the extended hand grip and attach a CGS Hyperion K Suppressor.
Everyone on the planet will envy you as that rig is 8 lbs with gun, Trijicon and suppressor and is Hollywood quiet.
Posted by: Community Notes at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (rgGn5)
126
Excess Oil and solvents will also penetrate cartridge ammunition primers. They are extremely reliable, but a sure-fire way to ruin them is .... wait for it ... soak them in oil.
Posted by: Common Tater at August 09, 2026 08:36 PM (0P8K0)
127
I like the butter idea. I'm going to try it on my beater AR sometime and see how long it takes for someone to notice.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 08:37 PM (MWfyi)
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 08:37 PM (zqeQL)
129
FFS, lady, calm down!!!
Posted by: The Woodpeckers
Stop banging on my metal gutters you bastards!
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (yEz+x)
And woe betide the woodpecker who wakes up grandbaby from her nap!
Posted by: The Woodpeckers
Stop banging on my metal gutters you bastards!
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (yEz+x)
And woe betide the woodpecker who wakes up grandbaby from her nap!
Posted by: RI Red - at August 09, 2026 08:37 PM (iB8Z+)
130
I have a 16” AR in 300 Blk out. I want something shorter for home defense. I prefer an SBR in the same caliber to prevent caliber creep and to use the same suppressor. Why would I choose a PCC in 9mm, let’s say, over the AR pistol?
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:08 PM (9H7EW)
=====
I've been looking hard at the Ruger LC Carbine in 10mm. Ruger also sells the PC Carbine in 9mm.
There are reports of ammo manufacturers offering 9mm cartridges specifically for long barrel 9mm carbines (Federal ?). Most tests suggest a minimum bullet weight of 124g with standard velocity 147g bullets giving the best expansion/velocity performance.
I am not concerned about over penetration, just stopping power, muzzle flash and sound.
Posted by: Accomack at August 09, 2026 07:08 PM (9H7EW)
=====
I've been looking hard at the Ruger LC Carbine in 10mm. Ruger also sells the PC Carbine in 9mm.
There are reports of ammo manufacturers offering 9mm cartridges specifically for long barrel 9mm carbines (Federal ?). Most tests suggest a minimum bullet weight of 124g with standard velocity 147g bullets giving the best expansion/velocity performance.
Posted by: mrp at August 09, 2026 08:39 PM (rj6Yv)
131
Does anyone have experience with Falco IWB holsters?
Posted by: mrp at August 09, 2026 08:40 PM (rj6Yv)
132
SilencerShop vs ATF: court ruled in favor of SilencerShop so that Tax Stamp (killed by BBB) and now the paperwork (killed by court a few days ago) allows you to buy the ultimate package:
Posted by: Community Notes at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (rgGn5)
Sorry to be a party pooper, but the judge gave the Feds seven days (starting last Friday) to file an appeal. If nothing has changed by COB Friday, you can pop the champagne then.
Posted by: Community Notes at August 09, 2026 08:35 PM (rgGn5)
Sorry to be a party pooper, but the judge gave the Feds seven days (starting last Friday) to file an appeal. If nothing has changed by COB Friday, you can pop the champagne then.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 08:41 PM (BCwQW)
133
*puts on lab coat*
The presence of unsaturates in oils will lead to oxidation and crosslinking. Vegetable oils are rife with unsaturates. Stick to high-saturates base oils and PAOs.
*doffs lab coat*
*puts on lab coat*
The presence of unsaturates in oils will lead to oxidation and crosslinking. Vegetable oils are rife with unsaturates. Stick to high-saturates base oils and PAOs.
*doffs lab coat*
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 09, 2026 08:41 PM (O0L8i)
134
I can't find Grant Cunningham's Lubrication 101 anywhere that's considered 'safe', so here's an excerpt about using motor oil and (better in his opinion) ATF:
Motor oils: Generally good boundary lubrication (particularly the Havoline formulations), but very poor corrosion resistance and poor resistance to open-air oxidation. In addition, their pour-point additives often contain benzene compounds, which aren't a good thing to have next to your skin on a regular basis! ATF performs better for firearms use on every count, even if it is a tad more expensive. (ATF is still 1/10 to 1/100th the cost of a specialty "gun oil"!)
Dexron-type Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). That's right, plain ol' ATF. The kind you get at every gas station, auto parts store, and even most convenience stores. Synthetic or regular, either will work just fine. (ATF does have a slight odor to it. If you find that objectionable, a decent alternative that is still readily available is "NyOil." Check your local auto parts store, in the aisle where they keep the miscellaneous lubricants and additives.)
Motor oils: Generally good boundary lubrication (particularly the Havoline formulations), but very poor corrosion resistance and poor resistance to open-air oxidation. In addition, their pour-point additives often contain benzene compounds, which aren't a good thing to have next to your skin on a regular basis! ATF performs better for firearms use on every count, even if it is a tad more expensive. (ATF is still 1/10 to 1/100th the cost of a specialty "gun oil"!)
Dexron-type Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). That's right, plain ol' ATF. The kind you get at every gas station, auto parts store, and even most convenience stores. Synthetic or regular, either will work just fine. (ATF does have a slight odor to it. If you find that objectionable, a decent alternative that is still readily available is "NyOil." Check your local auto parts store, in the aisle where they keep the miscellaneous lubricants and additives.)
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:42 PM (0sNs1)
135
As far as shooting in self defense.
I guess there is a rather large advantage to living in the boonies and having earth moving equipment. Like a bulldozer.
Or hogs.
I guess there is a rather large advantage to living in the boonies and having earth moving equipment. Like a bulldozer.
Or hogs.
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:42 PM (yEz+x)
136
What's a PAO? Besides twenty bucks, I mean.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 08:43 PM (MWfyi)
137
127 I like the butter idea. I'm going to try it on my beater AR sometime and see how long it takes for someone to notice.
Posted by: fd
======
Try Ghee butter aka clarified butter if you want less smoking from a mag dump.
Posted by: fd
======
Try Ghee butter aka clarified butter if you want less smoking from a mag dump.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:44 PM (E4rtv)
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM (O0L8i)
139
If nothing has changed by COB Friday, you can pop the champagne then.
And even then only if you're in the 5th Circuit, right? I don't anyone really expects that ruling to be the final word on the subject.
And even then only if you're in the 5th Circuit, right? I don't anyone really expects that ruling to be the final word on the subject.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM (vTZFs)
140
Try Ghee butter aka clarified butter if you want less smoking from a mag dump.
Posted by: whig
How can I rig something to make popcorn at the same time?
Posted by: whig
How can I rig something to make popcorn at the same time?
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM (yEz+x)
141
Fats that hate you are vicious lipids.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:46 PM (0sNs1)
142
Fats that hate you are vicious lipids.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:46 PM (0sNs1)
143
ATF is a lot thinner than 30w. I don't know that it's any better to get on your skin than regular old motor oil.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 08:46 PM (MWfyi)
144
Try Ghee butter aka clarified butter if you want less smoking from a mag dump.
Posted by: whig
How can I rig something to make popcorn at the same time?
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM
Might need a belt-fed. There is a belt-fed MSR upper available.
Posted by: whig
How can I rig something to make popcorn at the same time?
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM
Might need a belt-fed. There is a belt-fed MSR upper available.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:47 PM (0sNs1)
145
Sorry to be a party pooper, but the judge gave the Feds seven days (starting last Friday) to file an appeal. If nothing has changed by COB Friday, you can pop the champagne then.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 08:41 PM (BCwQW)
Plus, the ruling is limited to only the members of the organizations who filed the suit.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 08:41 PM (BCwQW)
Plus, the ruling is limited to only the members of the organizations who filed the suit.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 09, 2026 08:48 PM (hj9Cy)
146
You could try loading a Dragons Breath shotgun shell with popcorn.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 08:49 PM (MWfyi)
147
More Grant Cunningham wisdom:
Let's start with oil. Most people use oils that are way too heavy; thicker is not better! Use a relatively thin oil with the correct properties, and use it very sparingly - most "oil failures" I've seen have been from too much, rather than too little, oil.
Frankly, in terms of mechanical performance, most oils "work"; some are better than others, but everything will make parts move for a while. The weakest area of most oils is in corrosion resistance - and on a gun, corrosion is a bad thing! There have been lots of claims, but those people who have actually taken the time to run experiments to test corrosion on steel have found that the products with the greatest hype are often the worst at corrosion resistance. Not surprisingly, plain mineral oils, such as Rem Oil, score at the very bottom of the list.
Let's start with oil. Most people use oils that are way too heavy; thicker is not better! Use a relatively thin oil with the correct properties, and use it very sparingly - most "oil failures" I've seen have been from too much, rather than too little, oil.
Frankly, in terms of mechanical performance, most oils "work"; some are better than others, but everything will make parts move for a while. The weakest area of most oils is in corrosion resistance - and on a gun, corrosion is a bad thing! There have been lots of claims, but those people who have actually taken the time to run experiments to test corrosion on steel have found that the products with the greatest hype are often the worst at corrosion resistance. Not surprisingly, plain mineral oils, such as Rem Oil, score at the very bottom of the list.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:50 PM (0sNs1)
148
If we were to spec out a "best in class" oil, it would probably be something like Lubriplate's FMO-AW Oil, specifically the 350-AW weight. This is an oil designed with very high boundary protection and very high corrosion resistance - especially in the presence of acids, alkalis, and moisture. It is darned near tailor-made for our use!
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:50 PM (0sNs1)
149
Plus, the ruling is limited to only the members of the organizations who filed the suit.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 09, 2026 08:48 PM
NRA is among them.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at August 09, 2026 08:48 PM
NRA is among them.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:51 PM (0sNs1)
150
Pup and WC2 sitrep, Weasel?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:52 PM (0sNs1)
151
And even then only if you're in the 5th Circuit, right? I don't anyone really expects that ruling to be the final word on the subject.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM (vTZFs)
There were quite a few plaintiffs. If you're doing business with them (PSA, Silencer Shop, B&T USA are just the ones I can think of right now), the effects of the ruling would apply as well if state/local law doesn't get in the way.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 08:45 PM (vTZFs)
There were quite a few plaintiffs. If you're doing business with them (PSA, Silencer Shop, B&T USA are just the ones I can think of right now), the effects of the ruling would apply as well if state/local law doesn't get in the way.
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 08:52 PM (BCwQW)
152
Nurse,
I thought of you recently when a tree man told me he could tell I had borers in a few of my trees because he could see the woodpecker damage.
Grrr, I said.
He said, Think of it this way. They're closer to their noise than anyone. They're probably all deaf.
I thought of you recently when a tree man told me he could tell I had borers in a few of my trees because he could see the woodpecker damage.
Grrr, I said.
He said, Think of it this way. They're closer to their noise than anyone. They're probably all deaf.
Posted by: Wenda at August 09, 2026 08:54 PM (C67kD)
153
There were quite a few plaintiffs. If you're doing business with them (PSA, Silencer Shop, B&T USA are just the ones I can think of right now), the effects of the ruling would apply as well if state/local law doesn't get in the way.
Silencer Shop has their understanding of the ruling. Its good everywhere except for state laws like California and other communist states that don't recognize the US Constitution
There were quite a few plaintiffs. If you're doing business with them (PSA, Silencer Shop, B&T USA are just the ones I can think of right now), the effects of the ruling would apply as well if state/local law doesn't get in the way.
Silencer Shop has their understanding of the ruling. Its good everywhere except for state laws like California and other communist states that don't recognize the US Constitution
Posted by: Community Notes at August 09, 2026 08:56 PM (xE0sV)
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:56 PM (yEz+x)
Posted by: nurse ratched. at August 09, 2026 08:57 PM (yEz+x)
156
Posted by: Duncanthrax
=========
ATF has anti corrosives of unspecified nature added to it as well. Depends on mfg. I agree to disagree with Cunningham on this one. I've used ATF as a solvent for breaking apart rusty parts for milsurps and made a batch of Ed's Red without the lanolin.
Works ok for cleaning, okay on lube, but pretty much all petroleum based oils can have various additives that we don't know future effects might be and that is because the dose determines the poison.
I got up to organic chem and raw benzene is an issue but the small amounts released in motor oil are not likely to be an issue and there is no guarantee that your ATF won't have small amounts either.
I think Grant is talking past his expertise (he was a gunsmith until he had some issues which I cannot recall--now a firearms trainer).
For a lengthy discussion, go to Bob is the Oil Guy and look at the Friction Reducers and AW additives tab.
Summary, both ATF and motor oil can have benzene along with molybdenum and antimony compounds. Depends on the mfg but the high performance stuff has more antiwear and friction reducers in it. The regular stuff is just fine for a firearm.
=========
ATF has anti corrosives of unspecified nature added to it as well. Depends on mfg. I agree to disagree with Cunningham on this one. I've used ATF as a solvent for breaking apart rusty parts for milsurps and made a batch of Ed's Red without the lanolin.
Works ok for cleaning, okay on lube, but pretty much all petroleum based oils can have various additives that we don't know future effects might be and that is because the dose determines the poison.
I got up to organic chem and raw benzene is an issue but the small amounts released in motor oil are not likely to be an issue and there is no guarantee that your ATF won't have small amounts either.
I think Grant is talking past his expertise (he was a gunsmith until he had some issues which I cannot recall--now a firearms trainer).
For a lengthy discussion, go to Bob is the Oil Guy and look at the Friction Reducers and AW additives tab.
Summary, both ATF and motor oil can have benzene along with molybdenum and antimony compounds. Depends on the mfg but the high performance stuff has more antiwear and friction reducers in it. The regular stuff is just fine for a firearm.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 08:58 PM (E4rtv)
157
88 What do AF missile crews do every day?
Same thing as AF alert aircraft crews: sit on their butts.
A LOT of reading, shelf checks at the BX/Commissary*, and working out at the gym. With occasional scrambles to the a/c or seats in the silo to run an exercise which you really hope IS an exercise. And you fiddle with maintenance and training (which involves more reading) and Professional Military Studies (which involves even MOAR reading).
(* Missileers don't get shelf checks. They can do fridge checks, I guess. And their gym is whatever was put in the house stop their facility.)
Posted by: GWB at August 09, 2026 07:53 PM (jTXkU)
I’ve run into many a missileer in my time and lol tell me the same. You can get a master’s degree very easily as a missileer as there is nothing else to do down in the hole.
Same thing as AF alert aircraft crews: sit on their butts.
A LOT of reading, shelf checks at the BX/Commissary*, and working out at the gym. With occasional scrambles to the a/c or seats in the silo to run an exercise which you really hope IS an exercise. And you fiddle with maintenance and training (which involves more reading) and Professional Military Studies (which involves even MOAR reading).
(* Missileers don't get shelf checks. They can do fridge checks, I guess. And their gym is whatever was put in the house stop their facility.)
Posted by: GWB at August 09, 2026 07:53 PM (jTXkU)
I’ve run into many a missileer in my time and lol tell me the same. You can get a master’s degree very easily as a missileer as there is nothing else to do down in the hole.
Posted by: Cow Demon at August 09, 2026 08:58 PM (4g5V+)
158
Had two tickets to the Bryan gub show today. Interesting day... did get a stack of pmags (3rd gen/window/dust cover) for 10 bucks each. Kidlet picked up a nice Walther...
Posted by: man at August 09, 2026 08:59 PM (XuXeR)
159
Pup and WC2 sitrep, Weasel?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:52 PM (0sNs1)
------
All good! We recently had them at the kennel for boarding and the place is ridiculous. Pool time, nature walks, baths, massages... they didn't want to come home! The kennel has an associated all-breed dog rescue and I spoke briefly with the owner about volunteering one or two days a week.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 09, 2026 08:52 PM (0sNs1)
------
All good! We recently had them at the kennel for boarding and the place is ridiculous. Pool time, nature walks, baths, massages... they didn't want to come home! The kennel has an associated all-breed dog rescue and I spoke briefly with the owner about volunteering one or two days a week.
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 09:06 PM (zqeQL)
160
FWIW, I used to pay more attention to Grant Cunningham and used to read his blog for awhile. Like a lot of firearm trainers, he has distinct opinions and over time, I became less than impressed with some of his hot takes. As usual, YMMV and all that but there are quite a few actual folks involved in the oil biz from the scientific end that have had lengthy discussions on online fire forums over gun oils.
And quite frankly, if you don't live around salt water, keep reasonable care of your firearms like keeping them in a humidity controlled space, and oil them on occasion, any corrosion is minimal. Even less so on modern nitrided (Tennifer or Melonite for example), aluminum, or stainless steels, traditional bluing is suspect but there are better ways to protect that than the best of gun oils except possibly in the hunting field. For most of us, corrosion is not an issue on modern firearms.
Grant is located in the Pacific Northwest and there has high humidity and sometimes a salt environment. People used to use Boeshield to protect hunting rifles, etc. up there. So that is where he is coming from and I am sure as a gunsmith, he used to have to work on corroded firearms.
And quite frankly, if you don't live around salt water, keep reasonable care of your firearms like keeping them in a humidity controlled space, and oil them on occasion, any corrosion is minimal. Even less so on modern nitrided (Tennifer or Melonite for example), aluminum, or stainless steels, traditional bluing is suspect but there are better ways to protect that than the best of gun oils except possibly in the hunting field. For most of us, corrosion is not an issue on modern firearms.
Grant is located in the Pacific Northwest and there has high humidity and sometimes a salt environment. People used to use Boeshield to protect hunting rifles, etc. up there. So that is where he is coming from and I am sure as a gunsmith, he used to have to work on corroded firearms.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 09:06 PM (E4rtv)
161
Weasel, time for me to sign off tonight. See you next week!
Posted by: Ed L at August 09, 2026 09:07 PM (BCwQW)
162
Like Weasel I buy pet store walnut lizard litter every 5-8 years, put in a cap-ful of NuFinish car wax and a splash of mineral spirits, and my brass is just fine. Also the used dryer sheets, which very nicely suppress dust and absorb carbon and other fouling matter.
Have a "clean" batch of the stuff, no additives, used only for cleaning the lube off 30-06, 9mm, 30 carbine, or other brass that takes lube for resizing.
Have a "clean" batch of the stuff, no additives, used only for cleaning the lube off 30-06, 9mm, 30 carbine, or other brass that takes lube for resizing.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 09, 2026 09:07 PM (U/Byj)
163
Adios Ed L!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 09:07 PM (zqeQL)
164
162 Like Weasel I buy pet store walnut lizard litter every 5-8 years, put in a cap-ful of NuFinish car wax and a splash of mineral spirits, and my brass is just fine. Also the used dryer sheets, which very nicely suppress dust and absorb carbon and other fouling matter.
Have a "clean" batch of the stuff, no additives, used only for cleaning the lube off 30-06, 9mm, 30 carbine, or other brass that takes lube for resizing.
Posted by: rhomboid
============
That is pretty much what I used to do. Still have the tumbler and media stored outside in a storage shed. Tried wet tumbling and liked it better is all.
Ultrasonic works too in a small batch but you may have to use a pinch of lube as it leaves the brass bone dry clean compared with wet tumbling additives (soap).
Ultrasonic removes everything. Nice for small batches of rifle cartridges where you lube them anyway.
Have a "clean" batch of the stuff, no additives, used only for cleaning the lube off 30-06, 9mm, 30 carbine, or other brass that takes lube for resizing.
Posted by: rhomboid
============
That is pretty much what I used to do. Still have the tumbler and media stored outside in a storage shed. Tried wet tumbling and liked it better is all.
Ultrasonic works too in a small batch but you may have to use a pinch of lube as it leaves the brass bone dry clean compared with wet tumbling additives (soap).
Ultrasonic removes everything. Nice for small batches of rifle cartridges where you lube them anyway.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 09:11 PM (E4rtv)
165
Who likes the A2 iron sights on an AR?
Posted by: M. Gaga at August 09, 2026 09:11 PM (FpUx/)
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 09:12 PM (kJmSS)
167
ATF has more of a tendency to spread out over a surface but is not as slippery as motor oil. Maybe 50/50 is a good compromise. It might not gunk up as much.
Posted by: fd at August 09, 2026 09:12 PM (MWfyi)
168
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at August 09, 2026 09:12 PM (kJmSS)
----
You're welcome! 'Nite!
----
You're welcome! 'Nite!
Posted by: Weasel at August 09, 2026 09:13 PM (zqeQL)
169
Who likes the A2 iron sights on an AR?
Compared to what? A1 sights -- sure. Optic -- depends on the platform.
Compared to what? A1 sights -- sure. Optic -- depends on the platform.
Posted by: Oddbob at August 09, 2026 09:13 PM (vTZFs)
170
151 And even then only if you're in the 5th Circuit, right? I don't anyone really expects that ruling to be the final word on the subject.
Posted by: Oddbob
-----
From my brief scan of the decision, it applies only to members of organizations who sued (they are litigants as is the US government). And if the Trump DoJ appeals. The issue then is a circuit split and possible Scotus review. Other courts have held the NFA constitutional and the caselaw is unclear if a taxing power exists when the tax equals zero. That would appear to be a use of the commerce clause rather than taxing power.
Posted by: Oddbob
-----
From my brief scan of the decision, it applies only to members of organizations who sued (they are litigants as is the US government). And if the Trump DoJ appeals. The issue then is a circuit split and possible Scotus review. Other courts have held the NFA constitutional and the caselaw is unclear if a taxing power exists when the tax equals zero. That would appear to be a use of the commerce clause rather than taxing power.
Posted by: whig at August 09, 2026 09:15 PM (E4rtv)
171
Guns!
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at August 09, 2026 09:17 PM (xcxpd)
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