Gun Thread: Third February Edition!

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! How in the ever-loving hell did it get to be the Third February Edition? I usually write the Gun Thread on Saturday, but I sit here on Sunday, with approximately 0.0 words completed. Oops! I think I need to get busy!

Good news, however, on the weather front. Temps are now above freezing each day which is allowing all of the frozen shit to melt, which means I will be headed to the farm-o soon!

Also, I have a bunch of email in the 'ol mailbox that I need to address. Apologies for the delayed responses!

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

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FUNdamentals

*SIGH*

One reason I mention fundamentals each week because I am trying to make a point. If you want to become good at something - anything really - you need to practice, and the most efficient way to practice marksmanship is by first developing a plan for how best to utilize your range time (and expensive ammo) to achieve your goals. If you want to build correct and consistent fundamental marksmanship skills, you get there most efficiently through logical and methodical practice.

With me so far?

The very first thing you need to determine is why you're at the range in the first place. Are you there to practice and thereby improve your skills, or are you just there for funsies and camaraderie and to make some holes in the target? These are two very different things. One involves a goal and the other is a social event. If done properly, one can produce a desirable outcome and the other is, well, a social event.

So let me ask this question. What do you do when you get to the range, set up your stuff, and get ready to fire? Do you have a plan or do you just start shooting? If you have a plan, what is it? How do you identify areas that need additional work? What is your overall system for practice and training?

Examples of how you do things might serve as an example (good or bad) for others. Let us know in the comments!

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Unboxing a CMP 1911

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Jeweling a Rifle Bolt

Has anyone ever tried this? Looks like some special tools are required.

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Our Pal Kevlar

"Saved millions of lives" seems like a lot.

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#1 vs. #2

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Valentine's Day

WW delivers a valentine to FSJ and Gertie.

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Highway Patrol!

This week's episode: Witness Wife!

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Fire Maidens of Outer Space!!

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Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New!

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

******

Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo
Lucky Gunner Ammo NEW!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Bang!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:00 PM (OF02a)

2 first?

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at February 15, 2026 07:00 PM (0N4FZ)

3 banb

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:00 PM (LHPAg)

4 Good evening everyone

Posted by: Skip at February 15, 2026 07:01 PM (Ia/+0)

5 Good evening to all

Posted by: Coelacanth at February 15, 2026 07:02 PM (DJPFk)

6 Hello, Weasel!

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:03 PM (BCwQW)

7 Congrats again Eromero on your retirement. I think I got that right out of the murk of last week.

Still woozy here.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:03 PM (2swu2)

8 3 banb

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:00 PM

Sounds like a squib there Eromero. :-)

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:04 PM (OF02a)

9 Glad to hear winter is easing up on you Weasel.

We have some cool weather, but only the light breeze makes it cold (not real winter cold).

Burning an H Upmann by AJ Fernandez on the porch, might retreat to the garage.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 15, 2026 07:07 PM (3LcAa)

10 At least Weasel doesn't think another Ice Age is upon us, I am not so sure. 37 degrees and light rain now

Posted by: Skip at February 15, 2026 07:08 PM (Ia/+0)

11 No range report. I do not think the snow up there at the range has not had a chance to melt.

Here is a question. Height over bore is the distance from the center of the rifle barrel to the center of the scope, correct?

If so, I am measuring it at 3 inches.
Yikes!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:09 PM (OF02a)

12 The white stuff will be probably still be around nova until March at this rate. Can't wait for the glacier to retreat.

Posted by: Drink Like Vikings at February 15, 2026 07:10 PM (2SORG)

13 Greetings... y'all.
So, my nominee for gub of the week... wait, there's no such thing?

*vapors*

Anyhow, range time w/new 10/22.
CF, kidd bolt, volq bolt release and buffer, kidd mag release, magpul bipod, romeo 5 dot and flash suppressor (yeah, it's a .22. So? )

Ok w/bulk ammo, then snot nosed kidlet loaded CCI ... and put all in a 1.5" circle @ 25 yards. Holy cow... he's good, and so is that 22...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:11 PM (cGjQu)

14 Guns

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at February 15, 2026 07:12 PM (xcxpd)

15 Here.

“What do you do when you get to the range, set up your stuff, and get ready to fire?”

I’m there purely for the accolades of the Range Babes.
Up here, they tend toward Ursine and Moosesine, but still.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:12 PM (o19x0)

16 Haven't been keeping up, has any of the dystopian commie gub control stuff been passed yet in the Ole Dominion? I keep seeing youtube updates, but nothing definitive.

Posted by: Drink Like Vikings at February 15, 2026 07:12 PM (2SORG)

17 accolades of the Range Babes"

Check out my scalloped bolt.

Dead sexy, huh?

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:13 PM (cGjQu)

18 Meant to send you a short item on the shooting aspect of biathlon, Weasel, but indolence and plumbing crises prevented it. Will try to do it for next week.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 15, 2026 07:13 PM (3LcAa)

19 And the fingers will be chilly

Posted by: Pete Bog at February 15, 2026 07:14 PM (u0VgJ)

20 Hello all, thanks for the thread Weasel.
Mighty congrats to Eromero on his retirement, may it be long and enjoyable.
Glad to hear your surgery went well Whig, prayers continue for your full recovery.
When we leave the range after each session we discuss the good and the bad of that session. The bad goes to the top of the list for the next session, along with anything else that was identified as less than ideal.
With the said, I am off to fix dinner, BRB

Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at February 15, 2026 07:14 PM (IQ6Gq)

21 has any of the dystopian commie gub control stuff been passed yet in the Ole Dominion?

VA is...odd. All kinds of stuff gets sent up, but little actually happens...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:14 PM (cGjQu)

22 Howdy.

Posted by: GWB at February 15, 2026 07:15 PM (yasYs)

23 Here is a question. Height over bore is the distance from the center of the rifle barrel to the center of the scope, correct?

If so, I am measuring it at 3 inches.
Yikes!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:09 PM (OF02a)

I believe that you are correct. With irons, it's the distance from your line of sight through the front and rear sights to the centerline of the barrel.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:15 PM (BCwQW)

24 So...I bought a KelTec P3AT...the old version designed for pocket carry. .380, very light, very small.

And I bought a used Crimson Trace laser for it.

I was very excited to try it out.

The Crimson Trace laser blew off the trigger guard after two rounds. I have no idea where the battery is.

I'm gonna guess that the screws were stripped and couldn't hold the laser in place.

I finished my $26 dollar box of ammo. Gun is fine at 7 yards, laser or no laser. Not great. I had 4 light primer strikes and 3 failures to eject on the next-to-last round. My .22 G44 is more reliable and accurate.

But for $150 and fees....maybe not terrible. Maybe I can fix it all. Maybe.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at February 15, 2026 07:15 PM (xcxpd)

25 Haven't been keeping up, has any of the dystopian commie gub control stuff been passed yet in the Ole Dominion? I keep seeing youtube updates, but nothing definitive.
Posted by: Drink Like Vikings at February 15, 2026 07:12 PM (2SORG)
----
I don't think anything has become official yet, and I wish they'd hurry up so I'd know what to ignore.

Posted by: Weasel at February 15, 2026 07:15 PM (Fznpu)

26 Tomorrow will have non-freezing temperatures for the first time in about two months. I aim to shoot .45 ACP.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:16 PM (o19x0)

27 Happy to hear you’re through the surgery whig and trust it will be very successful. Process, not event, as friend advised when I was bitching about a hiccup in my body part replacement recovery.

Posted by: rhomboid at February 15, 2026 07:18 PM (3LcAa)

28 Oh and I sent in my G19 for a stipple and undercut job. I like the Glock 19 size-wise but I'm old enough and have shot Glocks enough that I'm starting to get serious 'Glock Knuckle'. I need that undercut if I'm gonna shoot that damn thing or carry it.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at February 15, 2026 07:18 PM (xcxpd)

29 designed for pocket carry. .380, very light, very small."

Family member had LCP w/CT. Nicely made gear, but it made my wrist miserable...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:18 PM (cGjQu)

30 Weasel is absolutely correct on fundamentals.

Recently, since no range time, I have been concentrating on trigger control. That is what I have been concentrating upon because of not going to the range and also practicing draws from a holster in unusual positions due to my current physical limitations.

I find it useful to maintain a feel for a firearm trigger of a specific model, and being able to quickly orient my sights to the target upon the draw. I also work in lasers, either rail mounted or in the chamber, to the mix.

Pretty much only handguns at this point.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:19 PM (2swu2)

31 Pencil dude Conte was first to run with a pencil in his hand?

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:19 PM (LHPAg)

32 I aim to shoot .45 ACP"

JMB smiles

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:19 PM (cGjQu)

33 I had a coworker who insisted that pencil lead is called "lead" because they used lead (not graphite & clay) up until the 1970's.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 15, 2026 07:20 PM (/lPRQ)

34 27 Happy to hear you’re through the surgery whig and trust it will be very successful. Process, not event, as friend advised when I was bitching about a hiccup in my body part replacement recovery.
Posted by: rhomboid
=======
Wobbly right now. But I did the surgery as much to prevent further damage as I did to alleviate current symptoms. So far, knock on wood, so good but it will be several months at a minimum before back at the range and going right back to beginning with 22 LR--first in revolver, then in a semi auto pistol.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:21 PM (2swu2)

35 Scoobs, three inches doesn’t matter (as far as scope height - I won’t comment on your social life).
But just make sure it’s entered in your ballistics program and you are good to go. Unless you are aiming at mice 10 feet away.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:21 PM (o19x0)

36 Haven't been keeping up, has any of the dystopian commie gub control stuff been passed yet in the Ole Dominion? I keep seeing youtube updates, but nothing definitive.
Posted by: Drink Like Vikings at February 15, 2026 07:12 PM (2SORG)

My NFA Class 3 FFL told me today that the plan to put a $500 tax on suppressors died in committee. Someone must have run the numbers on what it would take to manage the paperwork of creating a regulatory process from scratch and decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. He also said that the assault weapon ban was still moving ahead, but it looks like it'll apply only for firearms made after 1 July 2026. It looks like someone figured out ex post facto would have made legal challeges a big problem. All this is subject to change, of course.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:22 PM (BCwQW)

37 Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:19 PM (2swu2)
-----
Get well soon!

Posted by: Weasel at February 15, 2026 07:22 PM (Fznpu)

38 being able to quickly orient my sights to the target "

Sounds easy, no?

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:22 PM (cGjQu)

39 Congratulations on your retirement. Eromero!

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:22 PM (BCwQW)

40 That all said, the Kel Tec P3AT is very small, recoil isn't bad and it will put 6 rounds in a head sized target at 7 yards even with the horrible, horrible snag-free sights it comes with.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at February 15, 2026 07:23 PM (xcxpd)

41 After what transpired at work this week, my move out of NY may be happening earlier than expected. This will bode well for my peace of mind and firearm collection. :-)

We got our compensation numbers on Thurday. No raise for the 2nd year in a row and the bonus number was less than last year.
I am having my taxes done this Wednesday and will ask my accountant if I have enough put away to retire this year and not next year as I planned.

If the answer is Yes I just may be in Florida before the end of the year.

And of course one of my first purchases will be a suppressor for my rifle and maybe my first AR-15. :-)

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:23 PM (OF02a)

42 28 Oh and I sent in my G19 for a stipple and undercut job. I like the Glock 19 size-wise but I'm old enough and have shot Glocks enough that I'm starting to get serious 'Glock Knuckle'. I need that undercut if I'm gonna shoot that damn thing or carry it.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards
========
Any issues with the Dagger, MAE?

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:23 PM (2swu2)

43 Hi All, thanks Weasel.

After six months and a C-note, I got the official Authentication letter from Colt identifying my grandfather's WWI sidearm. As his informal historian and biographer, I am the repository for all family heirlooms (See my book Combat Engineer, if you track the book thread). A gun nut friend told me about the Colt Archive process, and I am glad he did.

Colt New Army Revolver Model of 1892, 1894 manufacture, .38 cal, 6" barrel, blued. He was with Penna National Guard, which became 28th Division in WWI.

Posted by: goatexchange at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (hyS0X)

44 my first purchases will be a suppressor for my rifle and maybe my first AR-15."

Fingers crossed!

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (cGjQu)

45 26 I aim to shoot .45 ACP.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:16 PM

I assume the upper range will be closed.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (OF02a)

46 He also said that the assault weapon ban was still moving ahead, but it looks like it'll apply only for firearms made after 1 July 2026. It looks like someone figured out ex post facto would have made legal challeges a big problem. All this is subject to change, of course.
Posted by: Ed L

Get a six-pack of stripped lowers now!

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (/lPRQ)

47 Howdy!

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at February 15, 2026 07:26 PM (sAmhv)

48 35 Unless you are aiming at mice 10 feet away.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:21 PM

I would probably miss them and they would die of fright. LOL

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:27 PM (OF02a)

49 Get a six-pack of stripped lowers now!"

Heartily endorsed!

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:27 PM (cGjQu)

50 Evening all. Open letter to the Dems:

Dear Democrats.
Since you've made it crystal clear that requiring an ID to exercise a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT is "disenfranchisement" and "the new Jim Crow.," I have a proposal.

The Second Amendment is a constitutional ight. Voting is a constitutional right. You claim requiring ID to vote suppresses people from exercising their right. Okay. Then requiring ID to purchase a firearm suppresses people from exercising THEIR right. Same logic. Same constitution. Same argument.

So here's my challenge to every Republican in Congress: introduce a bill TOMORROW that eliminates ALL identification requirements for purchasing firearms. No background checks. No ID. No waiting periods. Nothing. lf Democrats truly believe that ID requirements prevent citizens from exercising constitutional rights, they'Il HAVE to support it. Right?

Posted by: rickb223 at February 15, 2026 07:27 PM (xGgfV)

51 Good evening gubthreaders and all the ships at sea!

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:27 PM (NlEaG)

52 Mark Andrews Edwards (and others),

What did you think of the trigger on that P3AT?

I have one that a buddy gave me, and it is an awesome "pocket pistol" on the basis of size and concealability.

However, I hate the trigger, and so does my wife.

I am a way less skilled/experienced shooter than you. Shooting with Weasel Buddy Geoff, he could see me down flinch on some shots anticipating the subsequent barrel rise on the shot.

The long travel, heavy pull on the P3AT trigger, makes my poor skills even worse.

I know I need to improve my skills (obviously). However, do you as a skilled shooter find that trigger acceptable in a potential life and death situation?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at February 15, 2026 07:28 PM (HlyYF)

53 I assume the upper range will be closed.
Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (OF02a)

Unless you want to walk that road. Several feet of snow and a jeep ended up in the ditch and took 3 hours to self-rescue a couple weeks ago.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:29 PM (o19x0)

54 37 Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:19 PM (2swu2)
-----
Get well soon!
Posted by: Weasel
=======
Thanks. Under severe weight restrictions and bending restrictions. Have the neck guard of shame around neck which kind of scares my doggies a bit. They hate those things.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:30 PM (2swu2)

55 No shooting this weekend. Long walk on a local beach with the wifely unit for Valentine’s Day and some reloading tonight.
If the weather cooperates next weekend, I’ll be in Central Va at an annual camping/cooking/ shooting weekend testing some 45-70 black powder and 45 Colt reloads. The chronograph will get another workout! The Colt reloads were moving a bit leisurely last time I checked.

Thank you Weasel and a great week to the GunHorde.

Posted by: Coelacanth at February 15, 2026 07:31 PM (DJPFk)

56 Winchester was making some nice looking .45 ACP ammo, under the "USA Ready" name, with a 230 grain FMJ bullet that had a flat nose on it.

It has apparently been discontinued, and replaced with the same ammo, only now it comes in a box that proclaims it to be the "Super Suppressed (tm)" and "Subsonic" line. Oh boy!

The joke being that 230 grain bullets from standard 45 Auto ammo have always been subsonic, since they travel at around only 800 feet per second.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at February 15, 2026 07:31 PM (1Yqck)

57 Get a six-pack of stripped lowers now!
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM (/lPRQ)

I have a couple of H&K MR 762A4 assaulters (13" barrels, soon to become SBRs) and suppressors for them inbound.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:31 PM (BCwQW)

58 53 Several feet of snow and a jeep ended up in the ditch and took 3 hours to self-rescue a couple weeks ago.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:29 PM

I do hope that said Jeep wasn't driven by you. ;-)

Yeah, I can imagine how treacherous that road can be. And I highly doubt any vehicle can climb that slope in the snow and ice to get to the shooting spot itself.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:33 PM (OF02a)

59 230 grain bullets from standard 45 Auto ammo"

Sounds dangerous. Like a Glock.

/modern day journalist

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:33 PM (cGjQu)

60 Yesterday was a very significant day, and I hope you all celebrated it appropriately.

I speak, of course, of the issuing of the patent to John Moses Browning for the 1911, on February 14, 1911.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:34 PM (0sNs1)

61 My dad, who was a damned fine semi-pro gunsmith in his spare time, was really good at jeweling a bolt. Unfortunately, I have only one example of his work, a .25-06 that he built on a Mauser action. The bluing treatment and the jeweling on the bolt are works of art.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at February 15, 2026 07:34 PM (asOAt)

62 This past Monday hogmartin and I went to indoor range. We shot our carry weapons, S&W revolvers, 1911, and G19. I felt like crap (return of pneumonia) but was able to 'put them where they count' from 3 to 21 yards. So Thursday I was in the ER for xray etc. all test fine except bit of pneumonia right lung. Friday was my last day at work and I laid out like a big dog at home. I'm taking antibiotics and getting some rest and should recover nicely. Right now I'm eating some ice cream 'fore going to bed.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM (LHPAg)

63 43 Posted by: goatexchange at February 15, 2026 07:24 PM

Congrats!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM (OF02a)

64 and I hope you all celebrated it appropriately."

Indeed. I looked at them lovingly, then....

Wait, what?

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM (cGjQu)

65 He also said that the assault weapon ban was still moving ahead, but it looks like it'll apply only for firearms made after 1 July 2026. It looks like someone figured out ex post facto would have made legal challeges a big problem. All this is subject to change, of course.
Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:22 PM (BCwQW)

I don't have any insider info. I am surprised some of the crazy bills actually did not go forward - there is no one in the government to pump the brakes, and someone did.

The Assault Weapons/Magazine bill passed by the House of Delegates has all the big bad things in it including making "possession" of assault weapons - which includes semi-auto pistols and magazines over 10 rounds - criminal offenses.

The Senate version of the bill is currently in committee. It marks up the House bill taking out the all semiauto pistols definition (large format pistols are still covered as currently marked up) and raising the magazine limit to 15, looks like ownsership grandfathered but you can't buy our transffer after the July 1 2026 date. I suspect the 15 round limit on mags is to cover Virginia if the California 10 rd restriction falls at SCOTUS

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM (NlEaG)

66 As said, not sure we are not in a Ice Age, its snowing

Posted by: Skip at February 15, 2026 07:36 PM (Ia/+0)

67 Hi weasel! Thanks for the gun thread!

I go to the range to practice, but also to see MAE amd LazyMessenger and collect my hugs. I go because I find the focus therapeutic. I go to hone a skill that may save my life or the life of someone I love.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 07:36 PM (IhIKR)

68 PI, I swapped out the trigger unit on my Ruger LCP in .380. It’s still loooong, but much smoother. I find that the long pull forces me to concentrate on the front sight; hence, I am more accurate with it.
YMMV, but it’s my EDC.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:36 PM (o19x0)

69 Whig, I hope you get better soon!

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:37 PM (BCwQW)

70 62 Right now I'm eating some ice cream 'fore going to bed.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM

Wishing you many, many more healthy days in your retirement Eromero.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:37 PM (OF02a)

71 HOWEVER - the Senate can still mark up in a way that goes back to where the House bill ended up. Or it could die in committee. Or something else. Definitive, right?

The 11% tax on firearms and ammo looks like that is going to the Governor's desk for signature.

Gah.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:37 PM (NlEaG)

72 Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 07:35 PM (LHPAg)
-----
Congratulations on retirement amigo!!

Posted by: Weasel at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (Fznpu)

73 Same logic. Same constitution. Same argument.

And it would be a good argument if they actually gave a sh*t about argument. And the only logic they recognize is "we win, screw you."

On another topic, has anyone sent in a Form 4 since January 1? What was your turnaround time? Supposedly there was a yuge backlog (150K per one guntuber) as soon as the OBBB took effect. I'm wondering if that has been cleared yet.

Posted by: Oddbob at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (Fs0KI)

74 Under severe weight restrictions and bending restrictions. Have the neck guard of shame around neck which kind of scares my doggies a bit. They hate those things.
Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:30 PM

Well, they don't want you licking yourself.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (0sNs1)

75 Right now I'm eating some ice cream 'fore going to bed."

Didn't manly men have a smoke before bed? And before burning down the house?

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (cGjQu)

76 Yesterday was a very significant day, and I hope you all celebrated it appropriately.

I speak, of course, of the issuing of the patent to John Moses Browning for the 1911, on February 14, 1911.
Posted by: Duncanthrax

Patent No. 984,519.

Posted by: rickb223 at February 15, 2026 07:39 PM (xGgfV)

77 Good Sunday evening, gub thread 'ettes and 'rons, and a special warming temperature greeting to our host Weasel.

No shootin' this past week, but I did just spend 3.5 hours on meal prep for the offspring and me for the week. {sigh} This being both parents thing is harder than it looks!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy (OT but harmless) at February 15, 2026 07:40 PM (v23vE)

78 The long travel, heavy pull on the P3AT trigger, makes my poor skills even worse.

I know I need to improve my skills (obviously). However, do you as a skilled shooter find that trigger acceptable in a potential life and death situation?
Posted by: Pillage Idiot
=======
Lot of people do not like long and heavy double action triggers. And putting any decent power cartridge into a mini configuration that weight little and is very small means that felt recoil is accentuated.

DAO only is designed specifically with a long trigger pull of over 10 lbs or so. And the purpose is to require less training to fire (no safety to swipe).

Micro types are not for everyone but are designed for ultra concealment and easy carry with just enough power to get the job done if necessary.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:40 PM (2swu2)

79 On another topic, has anyone sent in a Form 4 since January 1? What was your turnaround time? Supposedly there was a yuge backlog (150K per one guntuber) as soon as the OBBB took effect. I'm wondering if that has been cleared yet.
Posted by: Oddbob at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (Fs0KI)

I'm not seeing a backlog. My two Form 4's got cleared in 72 hours last week.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:40 PM (BCwQW)

80 Well, they don't want you licking yourself.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
=====
Heh. I think my dogs think they can catch the collar disease from me.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:41 PM (2swu2)

81 Evening all
The glaciers are receding here in the DMV but still alot of ugly ice and snow piles. 50's and even 60 this week so psyched to see the end of this.
Finally! Finally got to the range along with Blaster, Sra Blaster, Hrothgar, Ed L ,Denise and I(or is it me?). As it was 1911"s birthday started with the Kimber and thrilled that although rusty(had not been since early Dec.) I remembered what to do. Pulled out my G48 next and shot well without the patch but gun jammed. It really needs to be cleaned. Sigh. was working on grip and had just put 4 rounds right in the center circle target when an RSO came over picked up my gun and began to give me advice on how to hold the pistol.
What is the polite thing to do in that situation?

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 07:41 PM (t/2Uw)

82 DMV MGC hit the range yesterday. First time together since early December! Good times.

Ed L. of course brought the toybox. We got to fire his De Lisle Commando Carbine. A bolt action .45 ACP integrally suppressed rifle. Super quiet. Super heavy. But neat to shoot. Look them up - they look like something straight out of Fallout.

Also he had a suppressed Walther PPK in .32. Something for 3 yards and closer, really.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:41 PM (NlEaG)

83 Thanks, Ed L.

Posted by: Oddbob at February 15, 2026 07:42 PM (Fs0KI)

84 Whig, glad to see you here!

And what you said re DAO. With a long trigger pull, there’s no reason not carry with one in the pipe.
It’s not going to go off without human intervention.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:43 PM (o19x0)

85 69 Whig, I hope you get better soon!
Posted by: Ed L
======
Thanks. Painkillers and muscle relaxers are doing a number on me right now. Was reading St. Iraeneas earlier and the words were sliding off the page.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:43 PM (2swu2)

86 Eromero, congratulations on your retirement. Now that you don't have to carry that Glock excrescence on duty, you are free to return to the path of righteousness!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:44 PM (0sNs1)

87 On the other hand, I wouldn't be too surprised if the ATF's online form code had a

if ( submitter == "Ed L" ) {

statement in it.

Posted by: Oddbob at February 15, 2026 07:45 PM (Fs0KI)

88 Ed L. of course brought the toybox. We got to fire his De Lisle Commando Carbine. A bolt action .45 ACP integrally suppressed rifle. Super quiet. Super heavy. But neat to shoot. Look them up - they look like something straight out of Fallout.

Also he had a suppressed Walther PPK in .32. Something for 3 yards and closer, really.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:41 PM (NlEaG)

SRA Blaster shot pretty good groups with that De Lisle at 20 yards shooting offhand. She also did pretty good with the PPK at 5 yards too.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:45 PM (BCwQW)

89 What is the polite thing to do in that situation?"

Wow. What an arse...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:45 PM (cGjQu)

90 And what you said re DAO. With a long trigger pull, there’s no reason not carry with one in the pipe.
It’s not going to go off without human intervention.
Posted by: RI Red
=======
Pretty much have to on those types. Small size makes manipulation more difficult. Personally, not a fan of the extreme micro types--PPK or a snubbie is about the bottom of what I would consider usable for me. Then again, I never had to use or need deep concealment firearms.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:46 PM (2swu2)

91
I had a coworker who insisted that pencil lead is called "lead" because they used lead (not graphite & clay) up until the 1970's.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher

Only in the ghetto.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 15, 2026 07:46 PM (Cqx++)

92 As said, not sure we are not in a Ice Age, its snowing
Posted by: Skip at February 15, 2026 07:36 PM (Ia/+0)

You are wrong, sir! This winter has been unusually warm and dry in my location this year, which is Irrefutable Proof that GlowBull Warmening is real!

I would worry about Trump unleashing the CO2 demons on us, if I hadn't already died from his repeal of Net Neutrality.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at February 15, 2026 07:46 PM (1Yqck)

93 "Open letter to the Dems:"

Dear rickb223,

Har har hardy har har.

Signed,

Posted by: The Dems at February 15, 2026 07:47 PM (vFG9F)

94 Weasel,
Thanks for posting the picture of WW with the pups. Made me smile.

Posted by: JTB at February 15, 2026 07:47 PM (yTvNw)

95 SRA Blaster shot pretty good groups with that De Lisle at 20 yards shooting offhand. She also did pretty good with the PPK at 5 yards too.
Posted by: Ed L
=========
I've seen the reviews for those new ones. Neat range gun sure to get a lot of attention.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:47 PM (2swu2)

96 Weasel, I will ask for the other.

Cozy Cave sit rep?

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 07:48 PM (OF02a)

97 Good evening, Sharon! Glad you are getting out now.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 07:48 PM (o19x0)

98 if ( submitter == "Ed L" ) {

statement in it.
Posted by: Oddbob at February 15, 2026 07:45 PM

Don't forget

#include EdL.lib;

Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:48 PM (0sNs1)

99 89 What is the polite thing to do in that situation?"

Wow. What an arse...
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:45 PM (cGjQu)

I thought it was kind of funny. Here's this guy trying to tell Sharon how to shoot.

Apparently he wasn't watching when she had her Kimber out.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 07:49 PM (NlEaG)

100 Have a bit to commute tomorrow so hopefully its not too much snow
Have a good night everyone

Posted by: Skip at February 15, 2026 07:49 PM (Ia/+0)

101 What did you think of the trigger on that P3AT

PI,

I liked the trigger. It is a bit long and heavy for such a tiny gun, but there’s no safety, and because it will be in a pocket, I feel it has to be somewhat strong. I’d hate to have an AD in my pocket.

I did manage to hit the broad side of a barn at 7 yards, and it was a little ornery, but for concealability, I thought it was pretty good.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 07:51 PM (IhIKR)

102 Draw some eyeballs on that picture.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 15, 2026 07:51 PM (Cqx++)

103 I've seen the reviews for those new ones. Neat range gun sure to get a lot of attention.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 07:47 PM (2swu2)

I mated a SilencerCo SPECTRE 9 can to that PPK. Sorry, but I couldn't resist getting a suppressor with the name of the #1 Bond villain organization (and spelled correctly, too!) right on the can.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:52 PM (BCwQW)

104 If an RSO walks up to me with advice, I’m going to listen, try to apply and see what happens. Of course, there’s no THIS TRICK WILL MAKE YOU AN EXPERT MARKSMAN, but just about everyone who is an RSO has a lot more experience than me.

I can always go back to “my way.”

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 07:57 PM (IhIKR)

105 Wow. What an arse...

Posted by: man

yes. I had been hitting the target no problem and clearing the jams without any help but working on grip so changing things up now and then. I don't think I said anything. Just picked the gun up, loaded a mag and preceded to shoot some more. Just so happy to be back at it after so long.
Like Nurse said, hugs are important.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 07:58 PM (t/2Uw)

106 Also, both SRA Blaster and Iris were able to easily shoot that PPK one handed at 3 and 5 yards. .32 ACP may not have the greatest hitting power, but it's very controllable. For anyone sensitive to recoil, you might be better off with .32 ACP vice .380 or 9mm. If recoil (especially in a smaller framed handgun) discourages you from practicing your fundamentals, choosing .380 and 9mm might be counterproductive, especially if you insist on a small frame handgun.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 07:59 PM (BCwQW)

107 Well, I did spend the last two days ar the club, but no shooting. We upgraded our gate access and had to issue new cards to all members.
The club building is only heated if someone goes in and turns on the heater. The cement slab stays at outdoor ambient temperature until about 4th of July.
After the first day, I put foot warmers in my boots. They were somewhat adequate.

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 08:01 PM (h87eb)

108 There was one rifle yesterday that I couldn;t even lift, let alone shoot.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 08:02 PM (t/2Uw)

109 There was one rifle yesterday that I couldn;t even lift, let alone shoot"

??? What was that?

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:03 PM (cGjQu)

110 ??? What was that?

Posted by: man

Ed, Blaster? I don;t know which one of you brought it.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 08:05 PM (t/2Uw)

111 There was one rifle yesterday that I couldn;t even lift, let alone shoot.
Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 08:02 PM (t/2Uw)

That was the De Lisle Commando Carbine. It weighs around 12 pounds. The integral suppressor is all steel. That's because the tech used for this reproduction is now 85 years old. Contrast that with modern suppressors 3D printed with titanium - super light and very durable.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:06 PM (BCwQW)

112 Pointless Gub thread comment;

BANG!

That is all. 😁

Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at February 15, 2026 08:06 PM (7iG4c)

113 Congrats on retirement, Eromero.
Weasel, it looks like you, WW, and the pups are enjoying your own retirement!

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 08:07 PM (h87eb)

114 105
Let's just say that those of us in the DMV that have seen Sharon shoot, never want to be on her bad side!

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ NEXT year in Corsicana! at February 15, 2026 08:07 PM (hOUT3)

115 Was it the De Lisle? Full mag they're what, 10 lbs? Kinda unwieldy, to say the least...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:10 PM (cGjQu)

116 Hrothgar, Next Year in Corsicana? What about this year?

Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at February 15, 2026 08:10 PM (IQ6Gq)

117 12 lbs? Holy cow... that's stout.

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:11 PM (cDcjR)

118 Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:03 PM (cGjQu)

Check out US Armament Manufacturing for info if you're interested in purchasing one of their reproduction DeLisle Commando Carbines. No, they're not cheap. But if you want a rifle that's REALLY quiet, even by modern standards, it's a really cool piece of history.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:14 PM (BCwQW)

119 Hello Horde. I have not been to the range this week. But I did have an impromptu MiniMoMe with RMBS and friends yesterday, as he visited SC this weekend. After the preliminaries (hugs and how are yous) the conversation immediately turned to our respective recent range outings and RMBS' latest acquisition. Always fun to catch up with Hordelings and the Horde-adjacent. (one of us! one of us!)

Posted by: screaming in digital at February 15, 2026 08:15 PM (mNjzF)

120 Biathlon is on!

Damn, what an event. Cross country skiing and then, with your heart racing 5000 mph or so, you have to shoot a target the width of a CD 5 times.

Posted by: Cow Demon at February 15, 2026 08:15 PM (hJH5n)

121 I literally couldn't lift it to set it into my shoulder. Had more success with the lever action that Blaster brought. I am thinking about buying a lever action so it was good to try it out. There are specifications that I willneed to be aware of before I buy.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 08:17 PM (t/2Uw)

122 No, they're not cheap. "

You clearly have a talent for understatement...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:18 PM (cGjQu)

123 116,
Dayum, it is next year, how did that happen?

Posted by: Commissar Hrothgar (hOUT3) ~ "THIS" year in Corsicana! at February 15, 2026 08:18 PM (hOUT3)

124 12 lbs? Holy cow... that's stout.
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:11 PM (cDcjR)

It's definitely very nose heavy. That contributes a lot to the perception that the rifle feels heavy when holding it your hand. But if you've got some trigger time on a Lee-Enfield, it won't feel as bad.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:18 PM (BCwQW)

125 I am thinking about buying a lever action so it was good to try it out. "

Lever guns are great to shoot, and if you need a gun while traversing scrub brush/ undergrowth, the shape is just perfect...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:21 PM (cGjQu)

126 Still no range time and probably not for a while. But I went to a swap meet today and got some hobby related items. Got a brick of 22lr since you can't have too many 22 rounds. Then a couple of steel ramrods/cleaning rods long enough for my longest muzzleloader barrels. Those can't be found at a Cabela's or MidwayUSA, you have to go to a BP specialty shop like Track of the Wolf. They even had slide on muzzle protectors.

The real prize was a pound of Swiss 3F black powder. This is considered the best BP on the market, used by serious competitors (which I am not). Always wanted to try it but it was too expensive, at least twice the cost of Goex. The guy had it for about a third the current rate. Going to use it for my best flintlock.

I wasn't looking to get a firearm but there was a Shiloh Sharps in 45-70 that almost caught me. (Hearing the theme from Quigley Down Under in my head.) Since I already have two 45-70 single shot rifles that shoot better than my skill level, I was able to resist.

A fine morning outing. Plenty of talk about guns and comments about the BS gun control stories coming out of Richmond.

Posted by: JTB at February 15, 2026 08:21 PM (yTvNw)

127 You clearly have a talent for understatement...
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:18 PM (cGjQu)

Considering that the things are basically hand-made, sold as NFA items, and serve a niche market, I'm not surprised by the price.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:22 PM (BCwQW)

128 But if you've got some trigger time on a Lee-Enfield, it won't feel as bad."

Close as I've come to that is 1903 A3 Rem... and that's pretty unwieldy for me...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:23 PM (cDcjR)

129 The De Lisle is heavy and a lot of the wait is out there hanging on the end of the barrel. Makes it unwieldy.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 08:27 PM (NlEaG)

130 60 Yesterday was a very significant day, and I hope you all celebrated it appropriately.

I speak, of course, of the issuing of the patent to John Moses Browning for the 1911, on February 14, 1911.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:34 PM (0sNs1)
Dates in history are significant events for sure.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 08:27 PM (LHPAg)

131 Going to call it a night. No work until Thursday but I am tired.

Will finish watching Waterloo on TV.
Only thing on the agenda for the next couple days is to make a batch of beef stew and go through the apartment and start labeling "Get Rid Of" or "Move to Florida" on things.

And of course fondle, I mean handle my new rifle and long for the day when I can take it to the range.

Thanks Weasel!! Hope you make it to the farm.

Everyone else have a great night!!!

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at February 15, 2026 08:28 PM (OF02a)

132 130 60 Yesterday was a very significant day, and I hope you all celebrated it appropriately.

I speak, of course, of the issuing of the patent to John Moses Browning for the 1911, on February 14, 1911.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at February 15, 2026 07:34 PM (0sNs1)
Dates in history are significant events for sure.
Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 08:27 PM (LHPAg)

Not statehood for OR in 1859?

Posted by: Cow Demon at February 15, 2026 08:29 PM (hJH5n)

133 Wait = weight.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at February 15, 2026 08:29 PM (NlEaG)

134 I've been looking at the new Henry Supreme lever action in 223 which is mag loaded but I just saw that our range has a Henry Homesteader in 9mm which I can rent to try out. Will be a good test to see if the reach is okay. I had trouble with Blaster's because I had to move it off my shoulder to work the action.

Posted by: sharon(willow's apprentice) at February 15, 2026 08:29 PM (t/2Uw)

135 Close as I've come to that is 1903 A3 Rem... and that's pretty unwieldy for me...
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:23 PM (cDcjR)

Try a 1917 US Enfield, or a WWI era Gewher 98. The barrel lengths on those things redefine "unwieldy" by modern standards. Back in the day, 24" barrels were considered "standard length" for issue rifles. Today, the M4A1 has a 14.5" barrel.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:30 PM (BCwQW)

136 “Got a brick of 22lr since you can't have too many 22 rounds.”

If anyone’s interested and is eligible to buy from the CMP, they had 5000rd cases of Armscor 22lr on sale for ~$200 to celebrate their 30th anniversary. I don’t know the quality of Armscor 22 but at 4 cents a round, I took a chance and bought a case.

Posted by: Arch Stanton at February 15, 2026 08:31 PM (aT6ve)

137 Today, the M4A1 has a 14.5" barrel."

Indeed. I've pretty much embraced the modern era...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:32 PM (cGjQu)

138 But if you've got some trigger time on a Lee-Enfield, it won't feel as bad.
Posted by: Ed L
=======
Lee Enfields have some of the most smooth triggers of any as issued firearm. Perfect example of two stage trigger.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:32 PM (2swu2)

139 75 Right now I'm eating some ice cream 'fore going to bed."

Didn't manly men have a smoke before bed? And before burning down the house?
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 07:38 PM (cGjQu)
My Grand-Daddy on Mama Eromero's side always smoked a cigarette before he went to bed and when I turned 12 he'd let me smoke one too. Camels, Luckies, Chesterfields, PallMalls, Homeruns, Picayunes whatever was on top of the china cabinet.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 08:35 PM (LHPAg)

140 50
'lf Democrats truly believe that ID requirements prevent citizens from exercising constitutional rights, they'Il HAVE to support it. Right?'

No. They'll just lie again.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 15, 2026 08:36 PM (fd80v)

141 Military bolt action rifles were designed to be about 8-10 lbs in weight which also soaked up recoil. It is a reason that militaries spent a lot of time strengthening the upper shoulder muscles.

Garand, for example, is not bad at all on felt recoil because it is gas operated AND a heavy rifle. Stalker type rifles that are 6-7 lbs, on the other hand are meant to be carried but shot seldom. Punishing recoil using the same cartridges compared with the old milsurps.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:36 PM (2swu2)

142 My brother came home yesterday with a baretta 80X cheetah in 380. He needed something to start his concealed carry course. Seems like a pretty cool piece. He says it felt great in his hand, which is where you want to be. He wanted an HK, but they seem like hens teeth around here, and didn't want to prolong registering for the course in case this fucked up state changes their mind. He has a 2nd permit, so he's going so hunt down an HK at his leisure.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at February 15, 2026 08:36 PM (snZF9)

143 baretta 80X cheetah in 380"

Saw one at a place in Houston ... very cool, almost sprung for it...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:39 PM (cGjQu)

144 The early smokeless designers of rifles did not know yet how to optimize the smokeless powder.

So, they kept up the long barrels from the black powder days aka musket length, gradually moving to a carbine length. US and UK were the first adopt shorter 24 inch (approx) barrels only when issuing their 1903 Springfield and Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) rifles in the early 1900's. The GEW and other Mausers held on to the long musket length until after WWI demonstrated that barrels could be shortened with little consequence.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:40 PM (2swu2)

145 Stalker type rifles "

Buddy has a "scout" in .308. It kicks and makes quite the show. .

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:41 PM (cGjQu)

146 Try a 1917 US Enfield, or a WWI era Gewher 98. The barrel lengths on those things redefine "unwieldy" by modern standards. Back in the day, 24" barrels were considered "standard length" for issue rifles. Today, the M4A1 has a 14.5" barrel.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:30 PM (BCwQW)

I have an M1917 US Enfield. The barrel can be used as a frigging flag pole.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at February 15, 2026 08:41 PM (snZF9)

147 142 My brother came home yesterday with a baretta 80X cheetah in 380. He needed something to start his concealed carry course. Seems like a pretty cool piece. He says it felt great in his hand, which is where you want to be. He wanted an HK, but they seem like hens teeth around here, and didn't want to prolong registering for the course in case this fucked up state changes their mind. He has a 2nd permit, so he's going so hunt down an HK at his leisure.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division
=====
Cheetahs are around as as used Italian police surplus for less than $500. Well built.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:41 PM (2swu2)

148 Military bolt action rifles were designed to be about 8-10 lbs in weight which also soaked up recoil. It is a reason that militaries spent a lot of time strengthening the upper shoulder muscles.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:36 PM (2swu2)

Not to mention the now lost art of bayonet fighting. Delivering a vertical butt stroke (and no, I'm not making that up) with an M4 would be... challenging.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at February 15, 2026 08:43 PM (1Yqck)

149 demonstrated that barrels could be shortened with little consequence."

Not many firefights at 1K+ yards...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:43 PM (cGjQu)

150 Buddy has a "scout" in .308. It kicks and makes quite the show. .
Posted by: man
======
I inherited a 270 Winchester in a 6.5 lb stalker type package. Going to restock it probably if not get rid of it.

Not going sheep hunting ever and it is unpleasant recoiling overkill for deer around my location.

6.5 Swede going forward is likely to be my upper limit in the future.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:44 PM (2swu2)

151 Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at February 15, 2026 08:36 PM (snZF9)

The new Cheetah is a capable .380 pistol. 13 rounds of .380 make it the one with the deepest magazine I know of (short of SMGs like the MAC-11).

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 08:44 PM (BCwQW)

152 whig, it's good to see you up and about.
Hoping all is well.
Good Show.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 15, 2026 08:46 PM (gAc7u)

153 Not many firefights at 1K+ yards...
Posted by: man
=======
Smokeless simply did not require the barrel length to reach out and touch people like black powder did in the Springfield Trapdoors or other black powder rifles at the time.

But, for the most part, firing a 2-3 MOA battle rifle with open sights at 1000 yards is simply wasting ammo.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:46 PM (2swu2)

154 yards is simply wasting ammo."

Suppressing fire...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:47 PM (cGjQu)

155 Not to mention the now lost art of bayonet fighting. Delivering a vertical butt stroke (and no, I'm not making that up) with an M4 would be... challenging.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
=======
30 Round mags doomed bayonet fighting as a skill. Quicker and easier to just shoot someone off the barrel. You did not always have that option in bolt action era.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:47 PM (2swu2)

156 Gun thread appropriate, I believe:

@TheThe1776 . Feb 14

Sergeant Jonathan Turner, a 17-year US military veteran with tours in Iraq and Iran, died in California from combat-related issues. His Georgia family couldn't afford the funeral, so cremains were to ship.

Patriot Guard Riders relayed them 2,100 miles across seven states with honoring ceremonies, ensuring dignified delivery.

Thank you for your service Sgt Jonathan Turner and may you RIP. Thank you to the Patriot Guard Riders and everyone who participated in honoring the sergeant.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 15, 2026 08:47 PM (gAc7u)

157 30 Round mags doomed bayonet fighting as a skill"

Indeed. I still marvel at the idea of easily...sorta carrying several 30 rd mags...

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:50 PM (cGjQu)

158 Suppressing fire...
Posted by: man

Eh, harassment mebbe but not really suppressive in the traditional sense. Volley fire was a brief thing early on in WWI but it got dropped pretty quickly and they stripped those off from the SMLEs by 1916.

Machine guns were the true suppressive fire devices as they could and did hit from way out simply by volume of fire and snipers that got in close enough did the rest.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:50 PM (2swu2)

159 =======
30 Round mags doomed bayonet fighting as a skill. Quicker and easier to just shoot someone off the barrel. You did not always have that option in bolt action era.
Posted by: whig
---

Rooskie says, just grab your shovel.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 15, 2026 08:51 PM (gAc7u)

160 Volley fire was a brief thing early on in WWI"

"Volley fire by ranks! "

/Zulu

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:51 PM (cGjQu)

161 152 whig, it's good to see you up and about.
Hoping all is well.
Good Show.

Posted by: Braenyard
=======
Thanks. Had a good surgeon. Now I have to sit and wait out the restrictions for the next three months. Boredom might be an issue.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:52 PM (2swu2)

162 Dates in history are significant events for sure.
Posted by: Eromero

Yeah!

Posted by: Al Capone at February 15, 2026 08:52 PM (gKWVE)

163 Rooskie says, just grab your shovel.

Posted by: Braenyard
======
The WWI trench fights were brutal affairs and the US brought its Winchester 97 shotguns to the party with deadly effect. A 1897 shotgun is powerful medicine in a trench at short range.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:53 PM (2swu2)

164 Now I have to sit and wait out the restrictions for the next three months. Boredom might be an issue."

Had kidney surgery...60 days restrictions. Thought I'd go mad.

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:53 PM (cGjQu)

165 162 Dates in history are significant events for sure.
Posted by: Eromero

Yeah!
Posted by: Al Capone at February 15, 2026 08:52 PM (gKWVE)
Probably a 1911 in there somewhere.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 08:54 PM (LHPAg)

166 US brought its Winchester 97 shotguns to the party "

Germans were not pleased. At all

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:54 PM (cGjQu)

167 Had kidney surgery...60 days restrictions. Thought I'd go mad.
Posted by: man

Ugh--that would be tough especially if it had coffee restrictions on it. All my surgeries so far have been spinal and skeletal so I still have my caffeine.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:55 PM (2swu2)

168 166 US brought its Winchester 97 shotguns to the party "

Germans were not pleased. At all
Posted by: man
=======
The 97 was simply another JMB masterpiece used in the trenches along with his machine guns, the 1911, etc. Made like Swiss watches though and a PITA to disassemble and reassemble correctly.

Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:57 PM (2swu2)

169 Ugh--that would be tough especially if it had coffee restrictions"

No Java. Or tea. Or Coke.

Bleh.

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:58 PM (cDcjR)

170 Got a text from a dear friend today. He and his wife and at least one of their adult daughters shoot and want to learn how to reload ammo. They know I reload. I'm thrilled. I have excess tools to get them started and can teach them things I had to learn on my own many moons ago. Above all, I can show them how to be safe with the process and turn out reliable, decently accurate ammo. Saving money is not the motivation, self-reliance and learning new skills is.

This is so cool.

Posted by: JTB at February 15, 2026 09:00 PM (yTvNw)

171 Not many firefights at 1K+ yards...
Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 08:43 PM (cGjQu)

There were occasions when aimed long range rifle fire proved decisive. At the Battle of Les Mares Farm on June 3, 1918, the US 5th Marines stopped the German advance towards Paris with aimed rifle fire from their M1903s at 500-600 yards. Despite the fact that only 42% of recruits in the summer of 1917 qualified with the rifle, this was good enough (along with the regular Marines) to impress the Germans on the receiving end of USMC marksmanship.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 09:02 PM (BCwQW)

172 Well, gotta run. Y'all have fun out there!

Posted by: man at February 15, 2026 09:04 PM (cGjQu)

173 Not to mention the now lost art of bayonet fighting. Delivering a vertical butt stroke (and no, I'm not making that up) with an M4 would be... challenging.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy

Did basic traing with the M-16. Drill demonstrated you might be better off using it as a baseball bat with the silly little bayonettes in use then.
Heard that they stopped bayonette training as they are even more silly on an M-4.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 15, 2026 09:05 PM (/lPRQ)

174 The 97 was simply another JMB masterpiece used in the trenches along with his machine guns, the 1911, etc. Made like Swiss watches though and a PITA to disassemble and reassemble correctly.
Posted by: whig at February 15, 2026 08:57 PM (2swu2)

And remained in use by the Army and USMC well into the 1970s, if photos of 97s in the hand of Army Green Berets and USMC security attest.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 09:07 PM (BCwQW)

175 There were occasions when aimed long range rifle fire proved decisive. At the Battle of Les Mares Farm on June 3, 1918, the US 5th Marines stopped the German advance towards Paris with aimed rifle fire from their M1903s at 500-600 yards. Despite the fact that only 42% of recruits in the summer of 1917 qualified with the rifle, this was good enough (along with the regular Marines) to impress the Germans on the receiving end of USMC marksmanship.
Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 09:02 PM (BCwQW)

"TEUFEL HUNDEN!!!"

Posted by: Cow Demon at February 15, 2026 09:07 PM (hJH5n)

176 Did basic traing with the M-16. Drill demonstrated you might be better off using it as a baseball bat with the silly little bayonettes in use then.
Heard that they stopped bayonette training as they are even more silly on an M-4.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 15, 2026 09:05 PM (/lPRQ)

The Army didn't do away with bayonet training in basic until sometime after 2012.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 09:08 PM (BCwQW)

177 Was the black powder used in battleship guns different from that used in pistols and rifles?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (Cqx++)

178 > Not to mention the now lost art of bayonet fighting.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at February 15, 2026 08:43 PM (1Yqck)

Certainly uncommon, but I seem to remember there was at least one bayonet charge in Gulf War II.

Scottish regiment, bagpipes started, bayonet charge, hostiles turned tail and ran.

Imagine how scared the enemy would have been if they'd had time to get naked and paint themselves blue.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (IG3/x)

179 Sharon,

Look at a Henry lever action .22 rifle. I am harboring the one I gifted Marine when he was 9 or 10. It is easy to load and to prime and to shoot. It has never failed. I love shooting it and may insist Marine get me one to replace it when he moves to a free state and repos his rifle collection.

I love shooting it more than the AR.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (IhIKR)

180 Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (IG3/x)

And they did it with the SA-80, a rifle even less suited for bayonet fighting than the M4A1.

Posted by: Ed L at February 15, 2026 09:11 PM (BCwQW)

181 I love shooting it more than the AR.
Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (IhIKR)

No love for Ruger 10-22?

Posted by: RI Red - who is now Somebody! at February 15, 2026 09:14 PM (nNjWE)

182 I mean, I guess you have to know why you want a rifle. To go to the woods and shoot tomatoes and overripe pumpkins? Or to sit sentry in a turret to pick off raiders?

I’m not going to be using a rifle except to have fun target shooting in the woods with friends much as I’d like to *types* *deletes*. But for pure enjoyment, a Henry .22 is great. You can get a scope if you want.

Posted by: nurse ratched at February 15, 2026 09:18 PM (IhIKR)

183 178 > Not to mention the now lost art of bayonet fighting.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at February 15, 2026 08:43 PM (1Yqck)

Certainly uncommon, but I seem to remember there was at least one bayonet charge in Gulf War II.

Scottish regiment, bagpipes started, bayonet charge, hostiles turned tail and ran.

Imagine how scared the enemy would have been if they'd had time to get naked and paint themselves blue.
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at February 15, 2026 09:09 PM (IG3/x)
SGT Brian Wood 23 yr old led that charge, awarded Military Cross by the Queen.

Posted by: Eromero at February 15, 2026 09:21 PM (LHPAg)

184 Whig, I hope you get better soon!

Thanks, Weasel for your awesome gun thread.

I have ordered a S&W Model 686 6” barrel from Palmetto Arms. I used to have a 686 4" barrel and a 6" barrel Ruger Security 6/Model 717 but financial difficulties... On my wish list is a 4" barrel Ruger .357 magnum. I have also ordered two WW1 reproduction stocks, and reproduction long bayonets and scabbards for my Rock Island and Remington 1903 Springfields. I also bought two USGI WW2 style bayonets and scabbards for my Smith-Corona and Remington 1903-A3 Springfields. In addition I have two M1 carbines and three M1 Garands, two 30.06, one 7.62 NATO. I then bought slings and replica canvas carrying cases.

Michigan winter weather and a serious leg injury prevents me from shooting. Next Thursday I go to MyMichigan in Saginaw for surgery.

Posted by: Bond in Michigan at February 15, 2026 09:25 PM (yJcPp)

185 Ok, all y'all, 9:26 thank you time.

Thank you!

Appreciate your being here tonight and hope to see you next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at February 15, 2026 09:26 PM (Fznpu)

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