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The NY Times Researches Where American-Born Roofers Went, but Can’t Put the Obvious Puzzle Pieces Together
First, construction jobs became less desirable, as eroding wages and working conditions diminished the quality and job security of the profession.Why did the wages erode? Why did working conditions erode?
Only then did immigrants, with the encouragement of the political and business class, fill a gap that was already opening.The sequence of “immigrants” taking those jobs seems to be out of order. By hiring off-the-books “immigrants” at below market wages, construction jobs became less desirable.
Most of those foreign-born workers are not naturalized citizens, and many lack permanent legal status. That leaves an industry of 6.8 million workers particularly vulnerable to President Donald Trump’s mass deportation effort.Translation: There are up to 6.8 million poorly paid illegal aliens working construction jobs in the U.S.
Builders are reporting labor shortages as some workers are detained or deported and others stay home amid immigration raids.If only there was another potential labor pool aside from non-citizens who are in this country illegally…
When [Matthew] Moore started his career, unionized construction was a good living, especially for workers without a college degree. In 1973, a quarter of workers were unionized, and in construction it was 40%. But those numbers were already starting to decline.I spent much of my life criticizing unions, but my gripe was always when unions wanted high compensation for not working (e.g. early retirement with benefits, idled workers getting paid, etc). I never begrudged them wanting good compensation for the work they performed. But if union labor was too expensive, the alternative was to offer competitive non-union jobs. Instead, the construction industry chose to pursue illegal foreign labor that was well below-non-union construction wages.
What was happening in California was happening across the country, both in states with a strong union presence, such as Illinois, Massachusetts and New York, and those that prohibited mandatory union membership — “right to work” states such as Arizona, Florida and Texas where the population, and housing production, was booming.Yep. It wasn’t about the unions. Non-unionized construction workers were displaced too.
And with that decline in union strength came a decline in the economic standing for both union and nonunion workers. In 1973, the average union construction worker made $1.71 for every $1 the average American worker earned hourly. Today, unionized construction workers earn $1.15 for every $1 an average worker earns. And nonunion construction workers make just 86 cents for every dollar earned by the average American worker, often without health or retirement benefits.Not only did construction pay effectively get halved by replacing Americans with “immigrants,” but it is well understood that the current system provides layers of contracting to deflect accountability for the inherent illegality of the construction labor system.
[Mariano] Martinez had arrived in the United States on the cusp of a major immigration boom. Workers interviewed for this article who crossed illegally during that period described a southern border that was more porous, even as barriers were going up. With the help of smugglers, many managed to get across on foot or in vehicles. In a common practice that continues today, builders avoided knowingly hiring workers lacking permanent legal status by keeping laborers off their payrolls and instead hiring subcontractors or labor brokers who employed the workers.And again, it’s not just the pay, it’s also the lack of benefits and worker protections. Illegal laborers have no rights and no ability to redress illegal exploitation.
By then, the high demand for housing and fewer worker protections had led to tough working conditions. For Mario, 47, who first came to the United States in 1997 from Morelia, Mexico, as a teenager, roofing paid better than picking cucumbers and bell peppers, but it wasn’t easy. Mario was an adult by the time he started roofing, but many roofers living in the country illegally are minors, doing one of the deadliest jobs in the country usually without health insurance.Illegal minors working off the books without health insurance is an extremely disturbing thing that has been accepted by “pro-immigration” Democrats and “pro-business” Republicans. There is no amount of empathy or profit that mitigates this level of exploitation. Yet builders still feel that they are paying too much…
Immigrants who held onto their jobs say they have seen no meaningful wage gains in decades, and are still making today what they made before the Great Recession.There is much more along these same lines, focusing on the current shortage of construction workers, but I’ve extracted enough to make the point. To fill that construction labor shortage, here’s an idea - how about once again hiring legal Americans at wages that can provide for a home and a family. If new home prices go up a little, so be it. But remember, home prices never went down when builders started subcontracting out to illegal labor at extremely low wages. Roofing used to provide a career wage, and was heavily unionized in some places. As you read this piece, it becomes quite clear why unions held appeal to American roofers. Illegal laborers cannot object to unsafe conditions, no benefits, and no labor laws to abide by. If the alternative to unionized labor is off-the-books, illegal labor, then unions are the ethical choice. But those don’t need to be the only options. There is a third option – hire legitimate, legal, non-union, American labor. [buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
st!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:00 AM (GyQIQ)
2
ESPONJA!!1!!1!11!1
ESPONJA!!1!!1!11!1
Posted by: AltonJackson at January 23, 2026 11:00 AM (tljrc)
3
!!
Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2026 11:00 AM (0yjaw)
4
There are not many pieces to this puzzle, and the Times successfully analyzes each of the pieces, but it somehow cannot put these few puzzle pieces together to provide the obvious conclusion. ...
++++
It's amazing what one can't do when one doesn't want to do it.
It's even more amazing what one can't do when one believes - rightly or wrongly - that it would be existentially ruinous to do it.
++++
It's amazing what one can't do when one doesn't want to do it.
It's even more amazing what one can't do when one believes - rightly or wrongly - that it would be existentially ruinous to do it.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:02 AM (GyQIQ)
5
it's a mystery, we should start at the top and work our way down until we find the answer...
Posted by: Sturmtoddler at January 23, 2026 11:03 AM (v6XNT)
6
What a great hands on demonstration of the fact that assertion is not argument.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:04 AM (06Hmj)
7
As it is, with "cheap" immigrant labor, my next roof replacement will bankrupt me.
I can't even imagine what a roof would cost if I had to go with union labor. I can't comprehend a number that high.
I can't even imagine what a roof would cost if I had to go with union labor. I can't comprehend a number that high.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (N8ZBc)
8
Yep. It wasn’t about the unions. Non-unionized construction workers were displaced too.
++++
If the non-union free agent costs you 80% of the union guy, you'll use him rather than the union guy.
If the illegal alien indenture costs you 40% of the non-union guy, you'll use him rather than either of the other guys.
++++
If the non-union free agent costs you 80% of the union guy, you'll use him rather than the union guy.
If the illegal alien indenture costs you 40% of the non-union guy, you'll use him rather than either of the other guys.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (GyQIQ)
9
"It has become widely accepted that pretty much any labor expense is too high, and if labor can’t be offshored to places with wages and work conditions below American standards, then illegal forms of chattel labor need to be imported into the U.S."
That's a part, but also I think a smaller part. The real reason is that competition forces all businesses to adopt very similar if not identical strategies, especially for the "cost" side of the business.
If there are three roofing companies operating in an area, and one of them decides to cut labor costs by hiring illegals, then that one has a substantial competitive advantage over the other two. It will be able to outbid the other two.
Those two -- even if they are otherwise patriotic and want to hire Americans -- will have no choice but to also cut labor costs, or else they will go out of business. So they too hire illegals. Now all three are hiring illegals.
That's a part, but also I think a smaller part. The real reason is that competition forces all businesses to adopt very similar if not identical strategies, especially for the "cost" side of the business.
If there are three roofing companies operating in an area, and one of them decides to cut labor costs by hiring illegals, then that one has a substantial competitive advantage over the other two. It will be able to outbid the other two.
Those two -- even if they are otherwise patriotic and want to hire Americans -- will have no choice but to also cut labor costs, or else they will go out of business. So they too hire illegals. Now all three are hiring illegals.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (iFTx/)
10
I'd like to say something about "This is what the unions get for involving themselves in politics to the detriment of Americans."
They used to be the labor brokers. You want guys for a project, you call the union hall and say "I need this many guys for a project" and they'd send you a gaggle of trained journeymen.
They used to be the labor brokers. You want guys for a project, you call the union hall and say "I need this many guys for a project" and they'd send you a gaggle of trained journeymen.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at January 23, 2026 11:06 AM (a+4eV)
11
Yeah, my gripe with unions has always been the protection of the lazy-bum types, the socialism, and the tendency to say "99% is not good enough! No compromise with management ever!"
But they used to do good. Occasionally, almost entirely by accident, they do good today. And they are better than Americans not getting considered for American jobs.
But they used to do good. Occasionally, almost entirely by accident, they do good today. And they are better than Americans not getting considered for American jobs.
Posted by: RandomDave at January 23, 2026 11:06 AM (aJQbY)
12
Builders are reporting labor shortages as some workers are detained or deported and others stay home amid immigration raids.
++++
Two things.
1. There is no such thing as a shortage, only a bad price.
2. Most of the raids are *not* targeting illegals who are keeping their heads down and working. I think those guys should be a part of the action, but right now, they are largely not. A lot of them are "self-deporting" just in case, and that was predictable as the sunrise.
++++
Two things.
1. There is no such thing as a shortage, only a bad price.
2. Most of the raids are *not* targeting illegals who are keeping their heads down and working. I think those guys should be a part of the action, but right now, they are largely not. A lot of them are "self-deporting" just in case, and that was predictable as the sunrise.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:07 AM (GyQIQ)
13
7 I can't even imagine what a roof would cost if I had to go with union labor. I can't comprehend a number that high.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (N8ZBc)
If only you could get those special congressman rates.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (N8ZBc)
If only you could get those special congressman rates.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 11:07 AM (uEmCf)
14
>>Immigrants who held onto their jobs say they have seen no meaningful wage gains in decades, and are still making today what they made before the Great Recession.
This is like H1Bs who are "stranded" in their home countries awaiting vis renewal whining about having their 'American' dream stolen.
You have willingly participated and profited* from this system, that has by design robbed opportunities and gainful careers from American citizens.
While recognizing that they system itself is rotten, I am focusing my concern for the locals you've disenfranchised.
This is like H1Bs who are "stranded" in their home countries awaiting vis renewal whining about having their 'American' dream stolen.
You have willingly participated and profited* from this system, that has by design robbed opportunities and gainful careers from American citizens.
While recognizing that they system itself is rotten, I am focusing my concern for the locals you've disenfranchised.
Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2026 11:08 AM (0yjaw)
15
And with that decline in union strength came a decline in the economic standing for both union and nonunion workers. In 1973, the average union construction worker made $1.71 for every $1 the average American worker earned hourly. Today, unionized construction workers earn $1.15 for every $1 an average worker earns. And nonunion construction workers make just 86 cents for every dollar earned by the average American worker, often without health or retirement benefits.
I don't have any problem with union wages declining wrt nonunion wages. Unions are legal extortion and represent no added value, in fact they usually detract value. That is not to say that those jobs should be filled by illegals without benefits and who often don't pay taxes, but let's not pretend that union workers are saints.
From what I've seen, the guys who put roofs on houses now work twice as hard as the union guys.
To fill that construction labor shortage, here’s an idea - how about once again hiring legal Americans at wages that can provide for a home and a family.
How about we kick out the illegals, and then let the market determine the level at which their labor is fairly compensated.
I don't have any problem with union wages declining wrt nonunion wages. Unions are legal extortion and represent no added value, in fact they usually detract value. That is not to say that those jobs should be filled by illegals without benefits and who often don't pay taxes, but let's not pretend that union workers are saints.
From what I've seen, the guys who put roofs on houses now work twice as hard as the union guys.
To fill that construction labor shortage, here’s an idea - how about once again hiring legal Americans at wages that can provide for a home and a family.
How about we kick out the illegals, and then let the market determine the level at which their labor is fairly compensated.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:08 AM (Riz8t)
Posted by: Anna Puma at January 23, 2026 11:08 AM (KfXOG)
17
There is also the fact that the school system told a couple generations of students that they needed to go to college and get a white collar job or they'd never be successful. And the schools cut things like shop class where students could learn some of the basics.
Now I'm sure there is a labor shortage, and it can't be quickly solved just be restoring wages working conditions.
The whole 'cheap labor' to me was a way to artificially inflate the lifestyle for mid-level white collar folks. They could eat out more often and have a bigger house than the value of their work warranted because of bringing any the illegals.
Now I'm sure there is a labor shortage, and it can't be quickly solved just be restoring wages working conditions.
The whole 'cheap labor' to me was a way to artificially inflate the lifestyle for mid-level white collar folks. They could eat out more often and have a bigger house than the value of their work warranted because of bringing any the illegals.
Posted by: PaleRider at January 23, 2026 11:08 AM (hhkIi)
18
“Where Did All the American-Born Roofers Go?”
----------
To that great roofer in the sky?
/My brother was a drywall hanger, then a landscaper, then a cook, and then a big box store stocker in Las Vegas over a couple of decades -- and got pushed out (and undercut in pay as a result) of each job by the unrestricted influx of illegal aliens during the 90's and 00's.
----------
To that great roofer in the sky?
/My brother was a drywall hanger, then a landscaper, then a cook, and then a big box store stocker in Las Vegas over a couple of decades -- and got pushed out (and undercut in pay as a result) of each job by the unrestricted influx of illegal aliens during the 90's and 00's.
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (MVWbi)
19
The vast majority of new buildings are only one or two stories and simple roofing systems designed for those with little / no skill to install (like most building systems).
Builders have a vhoice - put someone on the payroll and cover significant labor burden for a trade which requires minimal training, or swing buy Home Despot and have a few guys jump on the trhck for a few bucks for the day.
Builders have a vhoice - put someone on the payroll and cover significant labor burden for a trade which requires minimal training, or swing buy Home Despot and have a few guys jump on the trhck for a few bucks for the day.
Posted by: Operator Error at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (dr97s)
20
And with that decline in union strength came a decline in the economic standing for both union and nonunion workers. In 1973, the average union construction worker made $1.71 for every $1 the average American worker earned hourly. Today, unionized construction workers earn $1.15 for every $1 an average worker earns. And nonunion construction workers make just 86 cents for every dollar earned by the average American worker, often without health or retirement benefits.
++++
This is, I think, probably a pretty bad (low-resolution) way of looking at things. What is the "average worker?" He doesn't exist. It averages in so many things that the result is largely meaningless. How much is the union tradesman making today in real dollars vs. forty years ago? How about the non-union tradesman? How about the white collar private-sector employee? How about the government employee?
Yes, trade wages have probably come down in real terms, but so did most of the others.
++++
This is, I think, probably a pretty bad (low-resolution) way of looking at things. What is the "average worker?" He doesn't exist. It averages in so many things that the result is largely meaningless. How much is the union tradesman making today in real dollars vs. forty years ago? How about the non-union tradesman? How about the white collar private-sector employee? How about the government employee?
Yes, trade wages have probably come down in real terms, but so did most of the others.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (GyQIQ)
21
Ultimately all of this is merely an example of cost shifting.
Offloaded onto Americans. Citizens. Tax farmed Chumps. Wages have been stagnant since 1974
All this financial jiggery-pokery over the years has left in its wake fertile ground for the Marxist-Socialist Democrats. As we are witnessing
Offloaded onto Americans. Citizens. Tax farmed Chumps. Wages have been stagnant since 1974
All this financial jiggery-pokery over the years has left in its wake fertile ground for the Marxist-Socialist Democrats. As we are witnessing
Posted by: Common Tater at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (vjVW5)
22
There are not many pieces to this puzzle, and the Times successfully analyzes each of the pieces, but it somehow cannot put these few puzzle pieces together to provide the obvious conclusion. ...
Billionaires are bad and we should institute a wealth tax. -- NYT
Billionaires are bad and we should institute a wealth tax. -- NYT
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (ExV1e)
23
And again, it’s not just the pay, it’s also the lack of benefits and worker protections. Illegal laborers have no rights and no ability to redress illegal exploitation.
++++
And if he fails to go to work to earn enough to "send back home to his family" then the cartel boys holding his family hostage will start carving them up.
++++
And if he fails to go to work to earn enough to "send back home to his family" then the cartel boys holding his family hostage will start carving them up.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (GyQIQ)
24
Only then did immigrants, with the encouragement of the political and business class, fill a gap that was already opening.
American-born roofers didn't get the nice government subsidies, it turns out, and they were still subject to taxes, insurance, etc.
American-born roofers didn't get the nice government subsidies, it turns out, and they were still subject to taxes, insurance, etc.
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (wj4wL)
25
There ought to be costs involved in hiring illegals that offset the money saved by hiring them for below-market wages. You have to look over your shoulder. You have to worry about the books. I'm sure there's tons of examples.
BUT... if you obviate those costs and risks by eliminating the entire framework that is meant to enforce immigration and labor and safety laws, and the government just says "Have at it" instead, then all that goes out the window.
BUT... if you obviate those costs and risks by eliminating the entire framework that is meant to enforce immigration and labor and safety laws, and the government just says "Have at it" instead, then all that goes out the window.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (06Hmj)
26
I'd like to say something about "This is what the unions get for involving themselves in politics to the detriment of Americans."
They used to be the labor brokers. You want guys for a project, you call the union hall and say "I need this many guys for a project" and they'd send you a gaggle of trained journeymen.
Or, you know, a bunch of guys who expect a no-show job and who will shut down your site if they don't get them. Either that, or break your knees.
They used to be the labor brokers. You want guys for a project, you call the union hall and say "I need this many guys for a project" and they'd send you a gaggle of trained journeymen.
Or, you know, a bunch of guys who expect a no-show job and who will shut down your site if they don't get them. Either that, or break your knees.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (Riz8t)
27
>>Builders are reporting labor shortages as some workers are detained or deported and others stay home amid immigration raids.
Good news! With all the deportations and closed border, our housing needs will be reduced!
It was like a self-feeding monster: must bring in millions or workers, because we have to build housing for the millions of foreign workers and their families!!
Good news! With all the deportations and closed border, our housing needs will be reduced!
It was like a self-feeding monster: must bring in millions or workers, because we have to build housing for the millions of foreign workers and their families!!
Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (0yjaw)
28
If the alternative to unionized labor is off-the-books, illegal labor, then unions are the ethical choice. But those don’t need to be the only options. There is a third option – hire legitimate, legal, non-union, American labor.
++++
Which is what the market was already deciding on, before both were obviated with the open border.
++++
Which is what the market was already deciding on, before both were obviated with the open border.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (GyQIQ)
29
I had my roof done 2 years ago. Sales guy was white. Foreman was white. The chick who called me to confirm scheduled was white (ii assume white maybe she wasn’t but she was American). Everyone else was a 5’3” tall illegal. Guatemalan I presume.
But holy fuck they worked hard. Showed up at 7am and left at 6pm up and down the ladders all day.
My thought on that was great they’re fast. But how good is the quality? Probably not very good. I kinda don’t care because I don’t expect to be in this house for too long. The roof was at the point it was leaking all over the place and I had no choice but to replace it, I knew that when I bought the house.
I suspect in 10ish years from now the next owner will have all sorts of issues.
But holy fuck they worked hard. Showed up at 7am and left at 6pm up and down the ladders all day.
My thought on that was great they’re fast. But how good is the quality? Probably not very good. I kinda don’t care because I don’t expect to be in this house for too long. The roof was at the point it was leaking all over the place and I had no choice but to replace it, I knew that when I bought the house.
I suspect in 10ish years from now the next owner will have all sorts of issues.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (Ryx1w)
30
Realize that as businesses have become more international - and international money gets involved in the ownership of regional construction and trades related work, the idea of Henry Ford is foreign to them. With the exception of Europe, every other culture is soaked in the notion of people are disposable - just a cost line - and this has infiltrated US MBA programs where MBS (Management By Spreadsheet) is the norm. Almost every VC/PE firm lives by it. We seem to forget that defeating mandatory union membership was a major accomplishment, because industrial unions are a joke, unless we forget the lessons learned and "invite" them right back in.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (GZYu7)
31
The only cases in which I think unions are justified are jobs that are inherently dangerous -- police, firefighting, coal-mining, etc. They can then play a role in enforcing safety protocols, caring for survivors when someone dies in the line of duty, etc.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (77rzZ)
32
It was like a self-feeding monster: must bring in millions or workers, because we have to build housing for the millions of foreign workers and their families!!"
This. The entire framework (sorry) of this discussion is based on that fraud.
Sad, really.
This. The entire framework (sorry) of this discussion is based on that fraud.
Sad, really.
Posted by: man at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (XuXeR)
33
If there are three roofing companies operating in an area, and one of them decides to cut labor costs by hiring illegals, then that one has a substantial competitive advantage over the other two. It will be able to outbid the other two.
Those two -- even if they are otherwise patriotic and want to hire Americans -- will have no choice but to also cut labor costs, or else they will go out of business. So they too hire illegals. Now all three are hiring illegals.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (iFTx/)
Which is why the citizens who hire illegals should do prison time. If that had always been the case, the hypothetical other two could have ratted out their competitor and removed a player from the game.
Those two -- even if they are otherwise patriotic and want to hire Americans -- will have no choice but to also cut labor costs, or else they will go out of business. So they too hire illegals. Now all three are hiring illegals.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:05 AM (iFTx/)
Which is why the citizens who hire illegals should do prison time. If that had always been the case, the hypothetical other two could have ratted out their competitor and removed a player from the game.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (ExV1e)
34
Here in N. Indiana. Amish and Mennonite are roofing MACHINES.
Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (hirWM)
35
Too many foreigners.
Posted by: Eromero at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (yw3eV)
36
I think part of the problem in the roofing industry -- like in a lot of industries -- is that materials and tech got better so it's easier to install a roof now. It's not really a "skilled" job any more. So why pay high union wages when you can get others (illegals) to do the job for half price?
Same is true in the auto industry. Most of today's younger mechanics aren't really mechanics in the classic sense. They hook cars up to computers and the computers tell them what's wrong. Then they replace whatever the computer tells them to replace. They can't diagnose anything on their own.
Same is true in the auto industry. Most of today's younger mechanics aren't really mechanics in the classic sense. They hook cars up to computers and the computers tell them what's wrong. Then they replace whatever the computer tells them to replace. They can't diagnose anything on their own.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (iFTx/)
37
Must be nice living in an Amish paradise.
Posted by: Anna Puma at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (KfXOG)
38
This is still regional, as well.
Where I used to live, the owner and office staff might be American but you would not hear a single word of English out of the crews.
Where I live now, it's Americans top to bottom at some of the roofers I've interacted with, and a mix elsewhere. Same for lawn guys, tree guys, HVAC guys, plumbers and electricians.
And the price is not radically different. It's often lower because region is very much a thing. Would my HVAC system total cost have been cheaper if the HVAC outfit used illegals? Probably - but probably not by all that much.
Our country has been sold out for probably 5%-10% of the end purchaser dollar.
Where I used to live, the owner and office staff might be American but you would not hear a single word of English out of the crews.
Where I live now, it's Americans top to bottom at some of the roofers I've interacted with, and a mix elsewhere. Same for lawn guys, tree guys, HVAC guys, plumbers and electricians.
And the price is not radically different. It's often lower because region is very much a thing. Would my HVAC system total cost have been cheaper if the HVAC outfit used illegals? Probably - but probably not by all that much.
Our country has been sold out for probably 5%-10% of the end purchaser dollar.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (GyQIQ)
39
The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
40
Here in N. Indiana. Amish and Mennonite are roofing MACHINES.
Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid
Yes, the Amish were the first folks I thought of when reading the rant. That barn-raising scene in Witness came to mind.
Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid
Yes, the Amish were the first folks I thought of when reading the rant. That barn-raising scene in Witness came to mind.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (77rzZ)
41
Pay the roofers on a piece-work basis. X dollars a square for for asphalt shingles, Y dollars for tile, etc. etc. Skilled workers will make bank, unskilled will opt out after a while.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (8zz6B)
42
I was at a restaurant the other day. There seem to be three people doing everything. Two dudes who look like they did prison time, and a gal who may or may not have been born in this country.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
43
How about we kick out the illegals, and then let the market determine the level at which their labor is fairly compensated.
-------
^^^^That's the way forward.
And I don't feel like unions add much of value, but even the union labor usage rate would go up IF there were no longer illegal workers available. Its supply and demand--if we want rising wages, we have to kick out the illegals, and thus reduce the "supply" of labor.
-------
^^^^That's the way forward.
And I don't feel like unions add much of value, but even the union labor usage rate would go up IF there were no longer illegal workers available. Its supply and demand--if we want rising wages, we have to kick out the illegals, and thus reduce the "supply" of labor.
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (TN0g+)
44
To fill that construction labor shortage, here’s an idea - how about once again hiring legal Americans at wages that can provide for a home and a family. I
This is where we get in to trouble. I want my roof fixed for the best price. The transaction shouldn't involve any consideration of the career prospects of a roofer - that's his business. If he doesn't get what he thinks is a fair price, he shouldn't do the job. Obviously he wants more, but I don't recall the last time a roofer expressed concern about me and my career and how it's compensated.
This is where we get in to trouble. I want my roof fixed for the best price. The transaction shouldn't involve any consideration of the career prospects of a roofer - that's his business. If he doesn't get what he thinks is a fair price, he shouldn't do the job. Obviously he wants more, but I don't recall the last time a roofer expressed concern about me and my career and how it's compensated.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (Riz8t)
45
20 This is, I think, probably a pretty bad (low-resolution) way of looking at things. What is the "average worker?" He doesn't exist. It averages in so many things that the result is largely meaningless. How much is the union tradesman making today in real dollars vs. forty years ago? How about the non-union tradesman? How about the white collar private-sector employee? How about the government employee?
Yes, trade wages have probably come down in real terms, but so did most of the others.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (GyQIQ)
Better question : WHY is there an average worker?
Why should you be even remotely hirable if you don't excel?
Yes, trade wages have probably come down in real terms, but so did most of the others.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:09 AM (GyQIQ)
Better question : WHY is there an average worker?
Why should you be even remotely hirable if you don't excel?
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (uEmCf)
46
Most of the raids are *not* targeting illegals who are keeping their heads down and working. I think those guys should be a part of the action, but right now, they are largely not.
Only so many folks to do raids and asshats like the folks in MN tie up extra resources. Gotta focus on the worst first.
Also, and sad to say, I'm not sure that the public would support deporting Jose the carpenter who's only making it so that they can't get a good paying job and causing their taxes to be spent on people who shouldn't be here. Cuz love.
Only so many folks to do raids and asshats like the folks in MN tie up extra resources. Gotta focus on the worst first.
Also, and sad to say, I'm not sure that the public would support deporting Jose the carpenter who's only making it so that they can't get a good paying job and causing their taxes to be spent on people who shouldn't be here. Cuz love.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (ExV1e)
47
The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
++++
Roofing can get bonkers fast. I will need to do mine in the next 5-7 years and I am *not* looking forward to it.
The odds of it outliving me, though, are high.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
++++
Roofing can get bonkers fast. I will need to do mine in the next 5-7 years and I am *not* looking forward to it.
The odds of it outliving me, though, are high.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (GyQIQ)
48
The obvious solution is to unionize the illegals. I’m sure the cartels would have no problem running the unions!
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (ljGJy)
49
I mean it's obvious employers have to have consequences to hiring illegals. That's one thing I believe is lacking in the Trump plan. If employers don't hire there will be more self deportation and less illegal immigration .
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:17 AM (KDPiq)
50
I was at a restaurant the other day. There seem to be three people doing everything. Two dudes who look like they did prison time, and a gal who may or may not have been born in this country.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:17 AM (iFTx/)
51
Our country has been sold out for probably 5%-10% of the end purchaser dollar.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (GyQIQ)
But the CEOs and private equity bros got their phat bonuses so it all works out.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (GyQIQ)
But the CEOs and private equity bros got their phat bonuses so it all works out.
Posted by: You some kind of commie or something? at January 23, 2026 11:17 AM (TbWk/)
52
like in a lot of industries -- is that materials and tech got better so it's easier to install a roof now."
It is, but there are even easier/simpler products and techniques out there which aren't being adopted... it's just easier to hire low rent workers instead of being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century...
*see agriculture as an example*
It is, but there are even easier/simpler products and techniques out there which aren't being adopted... it's just easier to hire low rent workers instead of being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century...
*see agriculture as an example*
Posted by: man at January 23, 2026 11:17 AM (XuXeR)
53
Instead, the construction industry chose to pursue illegal foreign labor that was well below-non-union construction wages.
-----------
In Califzuela beginning in the 80s (thanks to Reagan's Amnesty), the labor unions were PRO-OPEN BORDERS and PRO-ILLEGAL ALIENS.
It was astonishing that the leadership was selling out their American members for cheaper labor. In hindsight, they were likely in the pockets of The Cartels (in addition of course to the Democrat-Communist Party here).
* spit *
-----------
In Califzuela beginning in the 80s (thanks to Reagan's Amnesty), the labor unions were PRO-OPEN BORDERS and PRO-ILLEGAL ALIENS.
It was astonishing that the leadership was selling out their American members for cheaper labor. In hindsight, they were likely in the pockets of The Cartels (in addition of course to the Democrat-Communist Party here).
* spit *
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (MVWbi)
54
I remember a Teamsters that you didn't want to mess with even if you were just running two semi's a day now silent with thousands of illegal illiterate drivers swarming all over.
I remember Caesar Chavez yelling for border enforcement to boost wages for the UFW.
But yeah, I remember Pepperidge Farm, too.
I remember a Teamsters that you didn't want to mess with even if you were just running two semi's a day now silent with thousands of illegal illiterate drivers swarming all over.
I remember Caesar Chavez yelling for border enforcement to boost wages for the UFW.
But yeah, I remember Pepperidge Farm, too.
Posted by: Auspex at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (Y8DZL)
55
"Why should you be even remotely hirable if you don't excel?"
Half of the labor pool is by definition less skilled than the other, about the median. If only above-median workers can be hired, you'll have 50% unemployment.
Half of the labor pool is by definition less skilled than the other, about the median. If only above-median workers can be hired, you'll have 50% unemployment.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (N8ZBc)
56
Only so many folks to do raids and asshats like the folks in MN tie up extra resources. Gotta focus on the worst first.
Also, and sad to say, I'm not sure that the public would support deporting Jose the carpenter who's only making it so that they can't get a good paying job and causing their taxes to be spent on people who shouldn't be here. Cuz love.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (ExV1e)
++++
Oh, I *understand* the targeting and I even approve of it - go after the worst first and maximize the bang for the buck. I just don't think it should *stop* there.
Also, and sad to say, I'm not sure that the public would support deporting Jose the carpenter who's only making it so that they can't get a good paying job and causing their taxes to be spent on people who shouldn't be here. Cuz love.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:16 AM (ExV1e)
++++
Oh, I *understand* the targeting and I even approve of it - go after the worst first and maximize the bang for the buck. I just don't think it should *stop* there.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (GyQIQ)
57
26 Or, you know, a bunch of guys who expect a no-show job and who will shut down your site if they don't get them. Either that, or break your knees.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (Riz8t)
The last time we had a union guy (official, not just member) in my office, he spent way more of his time playing Mob Boss than he did doing actual work.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (Riz8t)
The last time we had a union guy (official, not just member) in my office, he spent way more of his time playing Mob Boss than he did doing actual work.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (uEmCf)
58
Same is true in the auto industry. Most of today's younger mechanics aren't really mechanics in the classic sense. They hook cars up to computers and the computers tell them what's wrong. Then they replace whatever the computer tells them to replace. They can't diagnose anything on their own.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (iFTx/)
That works for engines. But if I go to a mechanic and I say my car makes a weird noise when I turn left, the computer probably can’t diagnose that. The mechanic has to figure it out. That’s why I like going to older mechanics who’ve heard that noise 1000 times before and know exactly what it is.
When all those guys are retired not sure what will happen. This is already the case with older cars. Few people are around anymore who can work on cars from the 80s or before when there was no computer to tell you what’s wrong.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (iFTx/)
That works for engines. But if I go to a mechanic and I say my car makes a weird noise when I turn left, the computer probably can’t diagnose that. The mechanic has to figure it out. That’s why I like going to older mechanics who’ve heard that noise 1000 times before and know exactly what it is.
When all those guys are retired not sure what will happen. This is already the case with older cars. Few people are around anymore who can work on cars from the 80s or before when there was no computer to tell you what’s wrong.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (Ryx1w)
59
Take a look at a house built by American labor versus illegal labor. A house should be built to last at least as long as the mortgage.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (0U5gm)
60
Now do lawncare.
Posted by: fd at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (vFG9F)
61
It was like a self-feeding monster: must bring in millions or workers, because we have to build housing for the millions of foreign workers and their families!!
———
The Sierra Club was (at one time) decidedly against illegal migration.
By definition, any “environmental” organization would be. The reason of course is that millions and millions of additions to the population requires tremendous amounts of new construction, roads, sewerage, logging, mining, fresh water, agricultural inputs, pollution and garbage.
Wonder what happened? Never heard a fucking peep out of them yet. Weird, huh?
———
The Sierra Club was (at one time) decidedly against illegal migration.
By definition, any “environmental” organization would be. The reason of course is that millions and millions of additions to the population requires tremendous amounts of new construction, roads, sewerage, logging, mining, fresh water, agricultural inputs, pollution and garbage.
Wonder what happened? Never heard a fucking peep out of them yet. Weird, huh?
Posted by: Common Tater at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (vjVW5)
62
Roofing can get bonkers fast. I will need to do mine in the next 5-7 years and I am *not* looking forward to it.
The odds of it outliving me, though, are high.
Doctor: I'm sorry, Joe Mannix, but you only have 3 months to live.
Joe Mannix: Excellent! My roof will outlive me!
The odds of it outliving me, though, are high.
Doctor: I'm sorry, Joe Mannix, but you only have 3 months to live.
Joe Mannix: Excellent! My roof will outlive me!
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (Riz8t)
63
But holy fuck they worked hard. Showed up at 7am and left at 6pm up and down the ladders all day.
Of course they did, because that's what roofing *is*. In the 60's, say, you would have said, "they were just high school kids on summer vacation, but holy fuck, they worked hard!" And they were doing the jobs that white-collar accountants wouldn't!
Of course they did, because that's what roofing *is*. In the 60's, say, you would have said, "they were just high school kids on summer vacation, but holy fuck, they worked hard!" And they were doing the jobs that white-collar accountants wouldn't!
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (wj4wL)
64
Our country has been sold out for probably 5%-10% of the end purchaser dollar."
One to two percent.
One to two percent.
Posted by: man at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (XuXeR)
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (N8ZBc)
66
Two houses going up in my neighborhood after teardowns of the old ones. All American labor so far that I have seen. No Mexican polka music. Demo, foundation, brickwork, framing, roof, all done by English speakers. Markedly less Central Americans than just a couple years ago.
Posted by: NC Rednecks, FTW! at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (oftw2)
67
I grew up in SoCal. All the workers were white, I noticed as I drove by new developments next to a freeway. Gradually they were Hispanic. Heard a guy on the radio back then who was president of the Black Drywallers Association. Trouble is, he said, there's no more black drywallers, all replaced by Hispanics.
And yes it is the US taxpayer who is paying for all the food and medical and rent assistance for these "poor" workers. This must end. And the home prices will not go up--the builder company was pocketing the extra all along.
And yes it is the US taxpayer who is paying for all the food and medical and rent assistance for these "poor" workers. This must end. And the home prices will not go up--the builder company was pocketing the extra all along.
Posted by: Random PJ at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (Dwxc/)
68
I see a lot of roofers that aren’t complying with a single OSHA regulation for fall protection. Yet, nothing seems to happen to them. It it’s illegals, OSHA just pretend they didn’t see it.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (ljGJy)
69
I have noticed how roofing has changed here in East Texas over the last 20 years or so. Used to be a contractor would get the job, a crew would come out and strip the old roof off, clean up, then they would replace wood paneling that needed replacing, then usually 3 guys would put all the shingles on. Usually took about a week.
For the last 5 or 6 years (maybe a bit more) when there’s a roofing job, about 15 or 16 guys show up at 6 am, and they all go at it wildly. I’ve witnessed several times where the entire job takes 12 - 16 hours, with 2 or 3 hours of cleanup the next morning. Watched that across the street from me last year.
For the last 5 or 6 years (maybe a bit more) when there’s a roofing job, about 15 or 16 guys show up at 6 am, and they all go at it wildly. I’ve witnessed several times where the entire job takes 12 - 16 hours, with 2 or 3 hours of cleanup the next morning. Watched that across the street from me last year.
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (xVja5)
70
struggling to understand how an industry that used to provide well-paying career jobs is now overwhelmingly staffed by poorly-paid “immigrants.”
Come on...2 + 2 =? SAY IT!
Come on...2 + 2 =? SAY IT!
Posted by: NR Pax at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (BpO1e)
71
Doctor: I'm sorry, Joe Mannix, but you only have 3 months to live.
Joe Mannix: Excellent! My roof will outlive me!
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (Riz8t)
++++
Silver linings are always there if you look hard enough!
Joe Mannix: Excellent! My roof will outlive me!
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:19 AM (Riz8t)
++++
Silver linings are always there if you look hard enough!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (GyQIQ)
72
I suspect in 10ish years from now the next owner will have all sorts of issues.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (Ryx1w)
==
Really depends on the firm you hire - are they a legit business, or just someone who does roofs. The good regional firms have quality control guys and foreman who get up on the roof. AS noted - roofing is not really hard technically. It is hard being up on a roof and doing the work.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (Ryx1w)
==
Really depends on the firm you hire - are they a legit business, or just someone who does roofs. The good regional firms have quality control guys and foreman who get up on the roof. AS noted - roofing is not really hard technically. It is hard being up on a roof and doing the work.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (GZYu7)
73
39 The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
$27K for me 2 years ago. Regular sized house nothing out of the ordinary. Granted it has some really steep pitches which makes it expensive and there was water damage that needed to be fixed. But still that shit ain’t cheap. And I got several bids. The one I went with wasn’t the absolute cheapest but was in the cheapeER category.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
$27K for me 2 years ago. Regular sized house nothing out of the ordinary. Granted it has some really steep pitches which makes it expensive and there was water damage that needed to be fixed. But still that shit ain’t cheap. And I got several bids. The one I went with wasn’t the absolute cheapest but was in the cheapeER category.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (Ryx1w)
Posted by: man at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (XuXeR)
75
Preserving the narrative is painstaking, tedious work.
Posted by: Jack Squat Bupkis at January 23, 2026 11:21 AM (GD2xa)
76
If non college bound Americans don't want to be plumbers or electricians, there are two career paths that still offer very good wages: diesel mechanics and welders. For well over a decade, these have been highly sought out, we can't find enough of either.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:21 AM (0U5gm)
77
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
I was looking for someone to plow my rather long driveway after the snow and ice stop Monday morning, and was astonished to find that there is actually a family in my UMC neighborhood with two teenage boys willing to do it. It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
I was looking for someone to plow my rather long driveway after the snow and ice stop Monday morning, and was astonished to find that there is actually a family in my UMC neighborhood with two teenage boys willing to do it. It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:21 AM (Riz8t)
78
suspect in 10ish years from now the next owner will have all sorts of issues.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (Ryx1w)
==
Really depends on the firm you hire - are they a legit business, or just someone who does roofs. The good regional firms have quality control guys and foreman who get up on the roof. AS noted - roofing is not really hard technically. It is hard being up on a roof and doing the work.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (GZYu7)
It’s a local company that’s been around for 25 years.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:11 AM (Ryx1w)
==
Really depends on the firm you hire - are they a legit business, or just someone who does roofs. The good regional firms have quality control guys and foreman who get up on the roof. AS noted - roofing is not really hard technically. It is hard being up on a roof and doing the work.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM (GZYu7)
It’s a local company that’s been around for 25 years.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (Ryx1w)
Posted by: man at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (XuXeR)
80
Of all the shitty jobs I had in my yute I hated roofing the most. We didn't have a union. We had a foreman. It's hot, tedious, ball breaking work with the constant promise of serious injury if you make one mistake.
The reason jobs like roofing have become magnets for illegals is because nobody wants to do it. That's why so many illegals get hired. If we remove illegals someone will fill their place but let's not pretend American kids go to bed at night with dreams of becoming a roofer.
The reason jobs like roofing have become magnets for illegals is because nobody wants to do it. That's why so many illegals get hired. If we remove illegals someone will fill their place but let's not pretend American kids go to bed at night with dreams of becoming a roofer.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (viF8m)
81
Most of today's younger mechanics aren't really mechanics in the classic sense. They hook cars up to computers and the computers tell them what's wrong. Then they replace whatever the computer tells them to replace.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (iFTx/)
That works for engines. But if I go to a mechanic and I say my car makes a weird noise when I turn left, the computer probably can’t diagnose that. The mechanic has to figure it out. That’s why I like going to older mechanics who’ve heard that noise 1000 times before and know exactly what it is.
When all those guys are retired not sure what will happen. This is already the case with older cars. Few people are around anymore who can work on cars from the 80s or before when there was no computer to tell you what’s wrong.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (Ryx1w)
_________
Works for almost everything now that can possibly be hooked up to any kind of sensor.
True, it doesn't work for odd squeaks or rattles or purely physical things (bent or broken parts, etc). But it eventually will.
There are new drive-through sensor machines that are incredible at what they can detect.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:13 AM (iFTx/)
That works for engines. But if I go to a mechanic and I say my car makes a weird noise when I turn left, the computer probably can’t diagnose that. The mechanic has to figure it out. That’s why I like going to older mechanics who’ve heard that noise 1000 times before and know exactly what it is.
When all those guys are retired not sure what will happen. This is already the case with older cars. Few people are around anymore who can work on cars from the 80s or before when there was no computer to tell you what’s wrong.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (Ryx1w)
_________
Works for almost everything now that can possibly be hooked up to any kind of sensor.
True, it doesn't work for odd squeaks or rattles or purely physical things (bent or broken parts, etc). But it eventually will.
There are new drive-through sensor machines that are incredible at what they can detect.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (iFTx/)
82
My Dad was a roofer in the 60s and 70s. But that was his second job. His other job was being a fireman.
Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (Riafb)
83
The young black man unemployment rate is something that doesn't have to exist. Open up trade schools in those areas instead of the standard college prep structure our schools are now.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:22 AM (KDPiq)
84
I like working on old cars. Distributors, carburetors, steering boxes, drum brakes, etc. I cut my teeth on that stuff.
Posted by: fd at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (vFG9F)
85
42 I was at a restaurant the other day. There seem to be three people doing everything. Two dudes who look like they did prison time, and a gal who may or may not have been born in this country.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
A friend of mine is unfortunately one of those people.
He was in line to take over his parents' restaurant, but decided he didn't want to (and neither did his older brother), so his parents shut it down and retired.
Now he's working a low-paying retail job.
I know, I should be surrounding myself with high-earning go-getters, human failure on my part.
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
A friend of mine is unfortunately one of those people.
He was in line to take over his parents' restaurant, but decided he didn't want to (and neither did his older brother), so his parents shut it down and retired.
Now he's working a low-paying retail job.
I know, I should be surrounding myself with high-earning go-getters, human failure on my part.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (uEmCf)
86
I don't think roofing tech and installation have changed much in 40 years. It does seem the roofers were always the roughest of the construction trade guys, but it's still sheathing, felt or the like, vents etc. and laying down shingles. Not fun. Re: mechanics, of course they hook it up to a computer now. They still have to access the problem area or part, or track electrical or mechanical issues that might be causing the original fault. Engineers are not making it easy for them even for routine tasks. And still plenty of basic suspension, steering, brakes etc. to deal with.
Posted by: Formerly Jb but don't want to step on JB! at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (yBGaa)
87
(Now do lawncare.)
********
I do my own lawn care. I hate it but I'm too cheap to pay someone to do something I can do myself. Besides it's decent exercise for an old man.
********
I do my own lawn care. I hate it but I'm too cheap to pay someone to do something I can do myself. Besides it's decent exercise for an old man.
Posted by: Cosda at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (+Rtty)
88
It is interesting how on the one hand we hear “learn trades and you’ll start at $75k on day 1” but then we also hear “no Americans need apply for trade jobs”.
These two things don’t compute together.
These two things don’t compute together.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (Ryx1w)
89
It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: Archimedes
We have a neighbor with a plow on his truck and he takes care of the neighborhood. Took me several months to find out who was clearing my driveway. When I was finally introduced to him, he refused any kind of payment.
Ended up persuading him to accept a case of beer.
Posted by: Archimedes
We have a neighbor with a plow on his truck and he takes care of the neighborhood. Took me several months to find out who was clearing my driveway. When I was finally introduced to him, he refused any kind of payment.
Ended up persuading him to accept a case of beer.
Posted by: NR Pax at January 23, 2026 11:24 AM (BpO1e)
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at January 23, 2026 11:24 AM (snZF9)
91
Same exact dynamic happened in meat packaging.
Posted by: Michael K at January 23, 2026 11:24 AM (eCB+U)
92
The best part of home builders wage chiseling - they do the same with quality of work and quality of materials.
IOW - most new home are garbage.
IOW - most new home are garbage.
Posted by: Operator Error at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (dr97s)
93
"Why should you be even remotely hirable if you don't excel?"
Sounds like the expectations of every recruiter and interviewer.
Me: "Here's my resume, references, and lots of code samples for you to judge."
Them: "We're only hiring Linus Torvalds types. Do you think you're as good as Torvalds? Are you a fullstack developer with ten years experience in the enterprise tools that came out only last January?"
Me: "Would you please suck my dick, and then I bid you good-day, asshole."
Sounds like the expectations of every recruiter and interviewer.
Me: "Here's my resume, references, and lots of code samples for you to judge."
Them: "We're only hiring Linus Torvalds types. Do you think you're as good as Torvalds? Are you a fullstack developer with ten years experience in the enterprise tools that came out only last January?"
Me: "Would you please suck my dick, and then I bid you good-day, asshole."
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (N8ZBc)
94
You have to go by priorities on the left:
The First Law: Unfettered, illegal immigration is an unalloyed good and is not to be criticized or implicated in any way as a cause of degraded wages or working conditions, poor performance by schools or increased crime, drug use or medical or housing costs.
The Second Law: Anything that appears to contradict the First Law has to have an alternate explanation, however implausible. Or...it's just a mystery, just like there was no way to stop illegal immigration until there was.
The Real Law: Things like this are the way they are because somewhere there's BIG MONEY that wants it that way.
That is all.
The First Law: Unfettered, illegal immigration is an unalloyed good and is not to be criticized or implicated in any way as a cause of degraded wages or working conditions, poor performance by schools or increased crime, drug use or medical or housing costs.
The Second Law: Anything that appears to contradict the First Law has to have an alternate explanation, however implausible. Or...it's just a mystery, just like there was no way to stop illegal immigration until there was.
The Real Law: Things like this are the way they are because somewhere there's BIG MONEY that wants it that way.
That is all.
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (QGaXH)
95
Seems to me there are a lot of young people in this country who can't be bothered to start at the low end of the job market. Too many incentives to keep them on Only Fans or selling weed.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
I was looking for someone to plow my rather long driveway after the snow and ice stop Monday morning, and was astonished to find that there is actually a family in my UMC neighborhood with two teenage boys willing to do it. It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:21 AM (Riz8t)
___
When I was a kid -- not that long ago, mind you -- after it snowed all the kids would grab their shovels and go door to door offering to shovel for a few bucks. We made good money. Had to get out there early, though, because if you didn't, then other kids would beat you to the business. I never see kids out there doing this any more -- not even for their own houses!
Posted by: BurtTC at January 23, 2026 11:15 AM (dGCAG)
____
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
I was looking for someone to plow my rather long driveway after the snow and ice stop Monday morning, and was astonished to find that there is actually a family in my UMC neighborhood with two teenage boys willing to do it. It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:21 AM (Riz8t)
___
When I was a kid -- not that long ago, mind you -- after it snowed all the kids would grab their shovels and go door to door offering to shovel for a few bucks. We made good money. Had to get out there early, though, because if you didn't, then other kids would beat you to the business. I never see kids out there doing this any more -- not even for their own houses!
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (iFTx/)
96
I don't have any problem with union wages declining wrt nonunion wages. Unions are legal extortion and represent no added value, in fact they usually detract value.
Posted by: Archimedes
I respectfully disagree with that. In my experience, at least in home building, union labor had standards to meet that the new crop of builders don't come close to reaching. I have problems with unions, but I do believe that their build quality was higher. It might just be that everyone's quality has decreased in the same time frame, but current construction is pretty lousy.
Posted by: Archimedes
I respectfully disagree with that. In my experience, at least in home building, union labor had standards to meet that the new crop of builders don't come close to reaching. I have problems with unions, but I do believe that their build quality was higher. It might just be that everyone's quality has decreased in the same time frame, but current construction is pretty lousy.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:26 AM (0U5gm)
97
No way in hell could I be a roofer. I'd be paralyzed with fear on a sloped roof.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:26 AM (77rzZ)
98
For the last 5 or 6 years (maybe a bit more) when there’s a roofing job, about 15 or 16 guys show up at 6 am, and they all go at it wildly. I’ve witnessed several times where the entire job takes 12 - 16 hours, with 2 or 3 hours of cleanup the next morning. Watched that across the street from me last year.
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM
--------------------
That's how it is where I live (Illinois) too. All but the largest / most complex roofs get torn off and replaced in one day unless bad weather interferes. The bigger the job the bigger the crew.
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM
--------------------
That's how it is where I live (Illinois) too. All but the largest / most complex roofs get torn off and replaced in one day unless bad weather interferes. The bigger the job the bigger the crew.
Posted by: Bigsmith at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (1Au9i)
99
I spent much of my life criticizing unions, but my gripe was always when unions wanted high compensation for not working (e.g. early retirement with benefits, idled workers getting paid, etc).
_______
The thing is that that is EXACTLY what labor unions evolved into doing, as their essential function. They wholly abandoned even the lip service to standards and ethics that the lawyers and doctors at least claimed to support.
_______
The thing is that that is EXACTLY what labor unions evolved into doing, as their essential function. They wholly abandoned even the lip service to standards and ethics that the lawyers and doctors at least claimed to support.
Posted by: Eeyore at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (s0JqF)
100
I'm more worried about masons/brick layers than roofers.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (KDPiq)
101
>>The reason jobs like roofing have become magnets for illegals is because nobody wants to do it. That's why so many illegals get hired. If we remove illegals someone will fill their place but let's not pretend American kids go to bed at night with dreams of becoming a roofer.
Not when they've been told all their lives that "everyone deserves a college degree!" and that being an activist, a non-profit, a bureaucrat, whatever, is a valid profession, while working with your hands is fo losers. Add to it that over the years many summer jobs kids typically took, that introduced them to basic workplace norms (e.g. you have to do the grunt work, you are special/above that stuff), are now given to illegals.
Brainwashing that everyone *deserves* a white collar job + shut out of entry level jobs that could lead one on a path of blue collar work, even small business ownership.
Not when they've been told all their lives that "everyone deserves a college degree!" and that being an activist, a non-profit, a bureaucrat, whatever, is a valid profession, while working with your hands is fo losers. Add to it that over the years many summer jobs kids typically took, that introduced them to basic workplace norms (e.g. you have to do the grunt work, you are special/above that stuff), are now given to illegals.
Brainwashing that everyone *deserves* a white collar job + shut out of entry level jobs that could lead one on a path of blue collar work, even small business ownership.
Posted by: Lizzy at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (0yjaw)
102
IOW - most new home are garbage.
Posted by: Operator Error at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (dr97s)
That begins with the architects and planners, honestly.
Don't care if it's a spherical guatemaloid or Michaelangelo himself hammering in the nails if it's a 10,000 sq. ft. flakeboard box with no interior walls and a styrofoam foundation.
Posted by: Operator Error at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (dr97s)
That begins with the architects and planners, honestly.
Don't care if it's a spherical guatemaloid or Michaelangelo himself hammering in the nails if it's a 10,000 sq. ft. flakeboard box with no interior walls and a styrofoam foundation.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (06Hmj)
103
I don't think roofing tech and installation have changed much in 40 years. It does seem the roofers were always the roughest of the construction trade guys, but it's still sheathing, felt or the like, vents etc. and laying down shingles.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out how to automate roofing; I'd guess within the next 10-15 years. Roofing is probably not a long term career, to say nothing of the fact that your body wears out.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out how to automate roofing; I'd guess within the next 10-15 years. Roofing is probably not a long term career, to say nothing of the fact that your body wears out.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (Riz8t)
104
Immigrants who held onto their jobs say they have seen no meaningful wage gains in decades, and are still making today what they made before the Great Recession.
---------
I'm an independent contractor and am going to ask for a raise in a couple months when a new contract between my employer and the Feral Gubmint begins.
I checked to see what the cumulative compounded rate of inflation -- including housing, energy, and food (CPI-U) -- since 2013 (when I started) has been over the past 13 years: it's approaching 40%.
I've had to beg for a couple of raises in the past and am making only about 15% more than when I started; and if I ask for and am given a 20% raise now, I will still be making comparably less than I did when I started 13 years ago.
Thanks DogEater and F. Joe Mugabe!
---------
I'm an independent contractor and am going to ask for a raise in a couple months when a new contract between my employer and the Feral Gubmint begins.
I checked to see what the cumulative compounded rate of inflation -- including housing, energy, and food (CPI-U) -- since 2013 (when I started) has been over the past 13 years: it's approaching 40%.
I've had to beg for a couple of raises in the past and am making only about 15% more than when I started; and if I ask for and am given a 20% raise now, I will still be making comparably less than I did when I started 13 years ago.
Thanks DogEater and F. Joe Mugabe!
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (MVWbi)
105
was astonished to find that there is actually a family in my UMC neighborhood with two teenage boys willing to do it. It won't be cheap, but still.
Posted by: Archimedes
Those two are going to be busy for a week if word gets out!
Posted by: Archimedes
Those two are going to be busy for a week if word gets out!
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:28 AM (wj4wL)
106
>>No way in hell could I be a roofer. I'd be paralyzed with fear on a sloped roof.
I'm sorry to say the Secret Service is not an option for you either.
I'm sorry to say the Secret Service is not an option for you either.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:28 AM (viF8m)
107
"No way in hell could I be a roofer. I'd be paralyzed with fear on a sloped roof."
It IS dangerous work. I wonder if insurance costs ballooning contribute to the skyrocketing roofing costs?
It IS dangerous work. I wonder if insurance costs ballooning contribute to the skyrocketing roofing costs?
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:28 AM (N8ZBc)
108
Most of today's younger mechanics aren't really mechanics in the classic sense.
——-
Modern cars and trucks don’t need the routine adjustment, maintenance & repair the old school iron did. Alternators, Fuel injection, and Electronic Ignition mainly. Electronic engine controls.
God help you, though, if you do need work. There is no room to work, half the engine must be disassembled to get at anything. Huge labor costs.
Engine diagnostics have changed remarkably little in 100 years. Any modern mechanic would do well to read the trouble shooting and tune up info from the 1920s.
Everything is exactly the same, except with a whole bunch of electronic and computer stuff in between. One thing that makes for a good mechanic is pattern recognition. “I’ve seen this before…” and makes a connection. It is a science for sure, but there is an art to it as well.
The most useful tool I learned to trust was the vacuum gauge. “Measure, don’t guess!” (No jokes, ladies)
——-
Modern cars and trucks don’t need the routine adjustment, maintenance & repair the old school iron did. Alternators, Fuel injection, and Electronic Ignition mainly. Electronic engine controls.
God help you, though, if you do need work. There is no room to work, half the engine must be disassembled to get at anything. Huge labor costs.
Engine diagnostics have changed remarkably little in 100 years. Any modern mechanic would do well to read the trouble shooting and tune up info from the 1920s.
Everything is exactly the same, except with a whole bunch of electronic and computer stuff in between. One thing that makes for a good mechanic is pattern recognition. “I’ve seen this before…” and makes a connection. It is a science for sure, but there is an art to it as well.
The most useful tool I learned to trust was the vacuum gauge. “Measure, don’t guess!” (No jokes, ladies)
Posted by: Common Tater at January 23, 2026 11:29 AM (vjVW5)
109
I have to repair the roof here at the place in AZ. Most of the roof is sound, but there are 2 or 3 panels of the plywood roof deck that are all delaminated and rotten. I am going to have strip 2 or 3 squares of asphalt shingles, replace the compromised deck panels, place new tarpaper, and re-shingle. I will salvage as many of the asphalt shingle as I can, and I already have a large stack of salvaged ones on hand. Fortunately, it's a gently-pitched roof, and I can get around on it without too much trouble. Once the repair itself is done, I plan to buy some of that white polymer coating that is commonly used down here, and coat the entire roof.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:29 AM (8zz6B)
110
... It might just be that everyone's quality has decreased in the same time frame, but current construction is pretty lousy.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:26 AM (0U5gm)
+++++
Probably a multi-variable problem from labor skill to materials to development model.
But when I was shopping for a house, I gave my realtor only three hard and fast rules. Everything else (number of bedrooms, does it have natgas, etc.) was negotiable. I had a long list of "nice to haves" but the list of "must haves" was very short:
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:26 AM (0U5gm)
+++++
Probably a multi-variable problem from labor skill to materials to development model.
But when I was shopping for a house, I gave my realtor only three hard and fast rules. Everything else (number of bedrooms, does it have natgas, etc.) was negotiable. I had a long list of "nice to haves" but the list of "must haves" was very short:
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:29 AM (GyQIQ)
111
We seem to forget that defeating mandatory union membership was a major accomplishment, because industrial unions are a joke, unless we forget the lessons learned and "invite" them right back in.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (GZYu7)
I would argue that unions are okay provided that the government plays neutral referee. Then the union is required to act as a foil for the worst impulses of management but must still be reasonable.
Once you add laws making union membership mandatory, no replacing striking workers, and politicians/agencies coming in on the side of the union without need... unions become (more) corrupt and everything starts to fail.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (GZYu7)
I would argue that unions are okay provided that the government plays neutral referee. Then the union is required to act as a foil for the worst impulses of management but must still be reasonable.
Once you add laws making union membership mandatory, no replacing striking workers, and politicians/agencies coming in on the side of the union without need... unions become (more) corrupt and everything starts to fail.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:29 AM (ExV1e)
112
For the last 5 or 6 years (maybe a bit more) when there’s a roofing job, about 15 or 16 guys show up at 6 am, and they all go at it wildly. I’ve witnessed several times where the entire job takes 12 - 16 hours, with 2 or 3 hours of cleanup the next morning. Watched that across the street from me last year.
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM
That’s was exactly my roof replacement. Took 2 days total. They left the place spotless.
Posted by: Tom Servo at January 23, 2026 11:20 AM
That’s was exactly my roof replacement. Took 2 days total. They left the place spotless.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (Ryx1w)
113
Just had a new roof put on, post-Helene. Not a single English speaker in the whole bunch. the supervisor, who would drop by every hour or so was the only one.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (XeU6L)
114
95 When I was a kid -- not that long ago, mind you -- after it snowed all the kids would grab their shovels and go door to door offering to shovel for a few bucks. We made good money. Had to get out there early, though, because if you didn't, then other kids would beat you to the business. I never see kids out there doing this any more -- not even for their own houses!
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (iFTx/)
This generally didn't happen in my neighborhood because you always had somebody who wanted to show off their new snow blower by using it on the entire neighborhood.
And even before that, parents in my neighborhood didn't want their children bothering other adults. You might see kids doing their _own_ driveways and sidewalks, but never anyone else's.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:25 AM (iFTx/)
This generally didn't happen in my neighborhood because you always had somebody who wanted to show off their new snow blower by using it on the entire neighborhood.
And even before that, parents in my neighborhood didn't want their children bothering other adults. You might see kids doing their _own_ driveways and sidewalks, but never anyone else's.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (uEmCf)
115
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:29 AM (GyQIQ)
Built before 1990?
Did you replace all your windows?
Built before 1990?
Did you replace all your windows?
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (KDPiq)
116
The thing is that that is EXACTLY what labor unions evolved into doing, as their essential function. They wholly abandoned even the lip service to standards and ethics that the lawyers and doctors at least claimed to support.
Posted by: Eeyore at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (s0JqF)
++++
The unions all suffer from essentially the same problem: they succeeded in the core mission and had to find something else to do.
Posted by: Eeyore at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (s0JqF)
++++
The unions all suffer from essentially the same problem: they succeeded in the core mission and had to find something else to do.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (GyQIQ)
117
I respectfully disagree with that. In my experience, at least in home building, union labor had standards to meet that the new crop of builders don't come close to reaching. I have problems with unions, but I do believe that their build quality was higher. It might just be that everyone's quality has decreased in the same time frame, but current construction is pretty lousy.
I can only cite my own experience. I've never looked at a job, any job, and said "That's really well done. It must have been done by a union guy." Granted, my experience is limited.
I can only cite my own experience. I've never looked at a job, any job, and said "That's really well done. It must have been done by a union guy." Granted, my experience is limited.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (Riz8t)
118
I don't think roofing tech and installation have changed much in 40 years. It does seem the roofers were always the roughest of the construction trade guys, but it's still sheathing, felt or the like, vents etc. and laying down shingles.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out how to automate roofing; I'd guess within the next 10-15 years. Roofing is probably not a long term career, to say nothing of the fact that your body wears out.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (Riz8t)
____
Roofing has changed drastically in the last 40 years. Just do a quick google search. Materials are better, more modular, installation equipment is MUCH better (cordless power tools, etc), and many houses have simpler roof designs.
Sooner or later, someone will figure out how to automate roofing; I'd guess within the next 10-15 years. Roofing is probably not a long term career, to say nothing of the fact that your body wears out.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:27 AM (Riz8t)
____
Roofing has changed drastically in the last 40 years. Just do a quick google search. Materials are better, more modular, installation equipment is MUCH better (cordless power tools, etc), and many houses have simpler roof designs.
Posted by: Judge Elric The Blade at January 23, 2026 11:31 AM (iFTx/)
119
Built before 1990?
Did you replace all your windows?
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (KDPiq)
++++
The previous owner already did that. Bonus.
Did you replace all your windows?
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:30 AM (KDPiq)
++++
The previous owner already did that. Bonus.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:31 AM (GyQIQ)
120
The previous owner already did that. Bonus.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:31 AM (GyQIQ)
Definitely a bonus.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:31 AM (GyQIQ)
Definitely a bonus.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:32 AM (KDPiq)
121
A union is only as good (or bad) as its management, i've found.
If management are scumbags, the union will be even scummier. If management is decent to their labor, the union will be decent too.
It can be a nice little symbiosis if everyone doesn't have their head up their ass. Usually isn't. But it can be.
If management are scumbags, the union will be even scummier. If management is decent to their labor, the union will be decent too.
It can be a nice little symbiosis if everyone doesn't have their head up their ass. Usually isn't. But it can be.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (06Hmj)
122
Wait. This is Buck, correct?
Surely there must be some linkage between immigrant roofers driving EVs... right?
Surely there must be some linkage between immigrant roofers driving EVs... right?
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (2Ez/1)
123
>>Brainwashing that everyone *deserves* a white collar job + shut out of entry level jobs that could lead one on a path of blue collar work, even small business ownership.
That's true. Do you know what else I never saw while I was doing roofing? A female roofer.
Lots of kids take those jobs but none of them are XX. Funny how equality only hits the white collar jobs.
That's true. Do you know what else I never saw while I was doing roofing? A female roofer.
Lots of kids take those jobs but none of them are XX. Funny how equality only hits the white collar jobs.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (viF8m)
124
The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (ExV1e)
125
Metal roofing.
Posted by: Ben Had at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (0KSrI)
126
American-born roofers didn't get the nice government subsidies, it turns out, and they were still subject to taxes, insurance, etc.
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (wj4wL)
This. Do illegal roofers payed in hard cash pay income taxes. And cry me a river about no medical benefits. They show up in an ER, they'll be treated for free; so no expense there. Vacation time? Just quit for a couple of weeks and come back. And most of us should no they pay for no insurance, liability or otherwise and get off scot free if they're in an accident.
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:10 AM (wj4wL)
This. Do illegal roofers payed in hard cash pay income taxes. And cry me a river about no medical benefits. They show up in an ER, they'll be treated for free; so no expense there. Vacation time? Just quit for a couple of weeks and come back. And most of us should no they pay for no insurance, liability or otherwise and get off scot free if they're in an accident.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (g8Ew8)
127
I don't think roofing tech and installation have changed much in 40 years. It does seem the roofers were always the roughest of the construction trade guys, but it's still sheathing, felt or the like, vents etc. and laying down shingles.
-----------
We had our shingled roof replaced a year ago with a metal roof by a local business which has been around for decades and has a good reputation (and they did a fine job).
While the management were Americans, the laborers were all illegals (I objected on those grounds alone, but the wifey was insistent and correctly pointed out it was likely the status quo in all the local roofing businesses). It was a very physically demanding (and costly!) endeavor. Took them more than a week to complete -- and cost us around $65k.
At least it will outlive us now ...
-----------
We had our shingled roof replaced a year ago with a metal roof by a local business which has been around for decades and has a good reputation (and they did a fine job).
While the management were Americans, the laborers were all illegals (I objected on those grounds alone, but the wifey was insistent and correctly pointed out it was likely the status quo in all the local roofing businesses). It was a very physically demanding (and costly!) endeavor. Took them more than a week to complete -- and cost us around $65k.
At least it will outlive us now ...
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (MVWbi)
128
I have an old house. Like waaaay old from the 1910s. It’s well built but it’s also old and need constant attention. Just found out it need some foundation reinforcement, $15k bill. Blegh.
It’s like you’re fucked if you buy new and fucked if you buy old. Maybe something from 1973. Is that the sweet spot?
It’s like you’re fucked if you buy new and fucked if you buy old. Maybe something from 1973. Is that the sweet spot?
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (Ryx1w)
129
And flat roofs are now mostly done by laying down a polyurethane type product instead of the tar and gravel.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:34 AM (KDPiq)
130
"Did you replace all your windows?"
I did 22 of them. Then I discovered that if one of these double-pane suckers gets busted (thanks, tenants!) it costs $330 to fix. By an immigrant laborer, natch.
I did 22 of them. Then I discovered that if one of these double-pane suckers gets busted (thanks, tenants!) it costs $330 to fix. By an immigrant laborer, natch.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:34 AM (N8ZBc)
131
Part of the issue is also the Walmart Dilemma.
People say they hate Walmart because it kills small
businesses. By and large, this is true, Walmart will generally have greater choice, longer hours and lower prices than a locally operated retail store.
But it really isn't Walmart that closes small businesses, it's the fact that you would rather save a buck on your dog food than buy from the local pet store operator. You'd rather save $50 on a television, than shop at the local electronics store. The consumer makes the conscious decision to choose their own financial considerations over supporting local retail. You aren't forced to go to Walmart, you choose to go to Walmart, and then eventually you are actually forced to go to
Walmart.
The same goes for roofing. Nobody sees the truckload of Spics show up to roof their house, gets on the phone with the contractor that bid the job, and says "Absolutely not, get these Spics outta my yard".
If they did, you wouldn't have wetbacks taking over. But you just can't resist that price and that speed anymore than the contractor can.
People say they hate Walmart because it kills small
businesses. By and large, this is true, Walmart will generally have greater choice, longer hours and lower prices than a locally operated retail store.
But it really isn't Walmart that closes small businesses, it's the fact that you would rather save a buck on your dog food than buy from the local pet store operator. You'd rather save $50 on a television, than shop at the local electronics store. The consumer makes the conscious decision to choose their own financial considerations over supporting local retail. You aren't forced to go to Walmart, you choose to go to Walmart, and then eventually you are actually forced to go to
Walmart.
The same goes for roofing. Nobody sees the truckload of Spics show up to roof their house, gets on the phone with the contractor that bid the job, and says "Absolutely not, get these Spics outta my yard".
If they did, you wouldn't have wetbacks taking over. But you just can't resist that price and that speed anymore than the contractor can.
Posted by: Strange Brew at January 23, 2026 11:34 AM (Ut9DU)
132
Maybe something from 1973. Is that the sweet spot?
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (Ryx1w)
I used to have a Chevette I could sell ya but the last bits of rust blew away ages ago.
Need some tires, though?
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (Ryx1w)
I used to have a Chevette I could sell ya but the last bits of rust blew away ages ago.
Need some tires, though?
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:35 AM (06Hmj)
133
It’s like you’re fucked if you buy new and fucked if you buy old. Maybe something from 1973. Is that the sweet spot?
That's when I was in HS and working construction in the summer. You don't want those houses.
That's when I was in HS and working construction in the summer. You don't want those houses.
Posted by: Archimedes at January 23, 2026 11:35 AM (Riz8t)
134
(Now do lawncare.)
********
I do my own lawn care. I hate it but I'm too cheap to pay someone to do something I can do myself. Besides it's decent exercise for an old man.
Posted by: Cosda at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (+Rtty)
==
In the same boat - I also do a much better job than 90% of them, whether they have kids, white guys or illegals.
********
I do my own lawn care. I hate it but I'm too cheap to pay someone to do something I can do myself. Besides it's decent exercise for an old man.
Posted by: Cosda at January 23, 2026 11:23 AM (+Rtty)
==
In the same boat - I also do a much better job than 90% of them, whether they have kids, white guys or illegals.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:35 AM (GZYu7)
135
Sorry Elric, it's still shingles, buddy, and air nailers aren't new.
Posted by: Formerly Jb but don't want to step on JB! at January 23, 2026 11:36 AM (yBGaa)
136
"And flat roofs are now mostly done by laying down a polyurethane type product instead of the tar and gravel."
Yes, mine has a white space-age rubber-plastic sheet, a couple mm thick, that's lasted 18 years. It was supposed to last 15.
Yes, mine has a white space-age rubber-plastic sheet, a couple mm thick, that's lasted 18 years. It was supposed to last 15.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:36 AM (N8ZBc)
137
Oh, I *understand* the targeting and I even approve of it - go after the worst first and maximize the bang for the buck. I just don't think it should *stop* there.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (GyQIQ)
Agreed. I wonder how much lefty minds would be blown if Trump were to arrest some fatcat (who supports Democrats) for illegally employing illegals and prosecute him.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (GyQIQ)
Agreed. I wonder how much lefty minds would be blown if Trump were to arrest some fatcat (who supports Democrats) for illegally employing illegals and prosecute him.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:36 AM (ExV1e)
138
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (ExV1e)
-----------
We had several neighbors get their roofs replaced via insurance owing to hail damage.
Wifey had an insurance adjuster come out to see if we could do the same, but although a little damage was likely caused by hail -- it was not sufficient to be covered by our policy.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM (ExV1e)
-----------
We had several neighbors get their roofs replaced via insurance owing to hail damage.
Wifey had an insurance adjuster come out to see if we could do the same, but although a little damage was likely caused by hail -- it was not sufficient to be covered by our policy.
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:37 AM (MVWbi)
139
I thought of going metal on the new roof but I looked at some houses in the ‘hood with it and it doesn’t look good. At least not to me.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:37 AM (Ryx1w)
140
Posted by: Strange Brew at January 23, 2026 11:34 AM (Ut9DU)
Then again the friendly local guy wasnt always just charging one dollar over the odds. Often he was screwing you royally because he was in or among the only game in town. So people aren't cretins for taking a sane predictable choice. If only things were so simple, eh?
Then again the friendly local guy wasnt always just charging one dollar over the odds. Often he was screwing you royally because he was in or among the only game in town. So people aren't cretins for taking a sane predictable choice. If only things were so simple, eh?
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (bb1Tf)
141
I spent much of my life criticizing unions, but my gripe was always when unions wanted high compensation for not working (e.g. early retirement with benefits, idled workers getting paid, etc).
_______
The thing is that that is EXACTLY what labor unions evolved into doing, as their essential function. They wholly abandoned even the lip service to standards and ethics that the lawyers and doctors at least claimed to support.
------
Automotive unions aided in the destruction of the American auto industry by saddling the "Big 3" with exhorbitant pensions that screwed domestic car pricing for several decades.
_______
The thing is that that is EXACTLY what labor unions evolved into doing, as their essential function. They wholly abandoned even the lip service to standards and ethics that the lawyers and doctors at least claimed to support.
------
Automotive unions aided in the destruction of the American auto industry by saddling the "Big 3" with exhorbitant pensions that screwed domestic car pricing for several decades.
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (TN0g+)
142
But when I was shopping for a house, I gave my realtor only three hard and fast rules. Everything else (number of bedrooms, does it have natgas, etc.) was negotiable. I had a long list of "nice to haves" but the list of "must haves" was very short:
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Joe Mannix
I would have put the natural gas on the 'must have' list. I bought my first house naively in my early twenties and it was all electric. Never again.
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Joe Mannix
I would have put the natural gas on the 'must have' list. I bought my first house naively in my early twenties and it was all electric. Never again.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (0U5gm)
143
I'm in a completed 2025 built house by a production builder Pulte. So far so good after a year ( Jan 14 ) .
My friend is having a Toll Brothers house built and he's had a number of issues but nothing that couldn't be corrected. That's how they build now. Do each step as fast as you can and correct any mistakes afterwards.
My friend is having a Toll Brothers house built and he's had a number of issues but nothing that couldn't be corrected. That's how they build now. Do each step as fast as you can and correct any mistakes afterwards.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (KDPiq)
144
Am I weird that I like doing my lawn? I always get satisfaction afterwards sitting in the yard with a cold beer admiring my work.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (Ryx1w)
145
>>>Although the link to the Times is behind a paywall, the entire article was republished at the Seattle Times, and it can be read here: “Where Did All the American-Born Roofers Go?”
What a bunch of homo retards.
What a bunch of homo retards.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (dK+Kv)
146
*Nobody sees the truckload of Spics show up to roof their house, gets on the phone with the contractor that bid the job, and says "Absolutely not, get these Spics outta my yard".*
This is about me, isn't it?
This is about me, isn't it?
Posted by: Cotton clothing in the 1850s at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (2Ez/1)
147
Do each step as fast as you can and correct any mistakes afterwards.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (KDPiq)
Just like making movies, or video games!
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (KDPiq)
Just like making movies, or video games!
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:39 AM (06Hmj)
148
"I have an old house. Like waaaay old from the 1910s. It’s well built but it’s also old and need constant attention."
Me too. This place was built before construction records were kept, I guess, but the neighborhood was platted in the 1880s. A money pit.
Me too. This place was built before construction records were kept, I guess, but the neighborhood was platted in the 1880s. A money pit.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:40 AM (N8ZBc)
149
"Why should you be even remotely hirable if you don't excel?"
i thought it was an Office joke... -_-
i thought it was an Office joke... -_-
Posted by: Sturmtoddler at January 23, 2026 11:40 AM (v6XNT)
150
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (bb1Tf)
.....
I understand.
I'm just saying you can't really bitch about illegal immigrant labor while the Mexicans are out front trimming your hedges and mowing the lawn.
.....
I understand.
I'm just saying you can't really bitch about illegal immigrant labor while the Mexicans are out front trimming your hedges and mowing the lawn.
Posted by: Strange Brew at January 23, 2026 11:40 AM (Ut9DU)
151
The same goes for roofing. Nobody sees the truckload of Spics show up to roof their house, gets on the phone with the contractor that bid the job, and says "Absolutely not, get these Spics outta my yard".
If they did, you wouldn't have wetbacks taking over. But you just can't resist that price and that speed anymore than the contractor can.
------
And that's why the border should have been closed all along. The work should go to whatever outcome (quality, price, speed) that the consumer desires, but only from legal providers.
If they did, you wouldn't have wetbacks taking over. But you just can't resist that price and that speed anymore than the contractor can.
------
And that's why the border should have been closed all along. The work should go to whatever outcome (quality, price, speed) that the consumer desires, but only from legal providers.
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2026 11:41 AM (TN0g+)
152
Posted by: ShainS -- 'The Warmth Of Collectivism' is Code for 'Hell On Earth' at January 23, 2026 11:37 AM (MVWbi)
I hated handling hail damage claims. Hated!
I hated handling hail damage claims. Hated!
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:41 AM (KDPiq)
153
Yup. I knew a guy when I was a kid who had a good roofing business and made a ton of money by middle age, even though he had a degree from a good school.
I asked about maybe getting a job with him, and he was just like "nope, I'm getting rid of guys so I can wind it down and sell out. It's not worth it to compete with the illegal aliens."
This was in the early 2000s, at the end of when CO was still a purple state.
I asked about maybe getting a job with him, and he was just like "nope, I'm getting rid of guys so I can wind it down and sell out. It's not worth it to compete with the illegal aliens."
This was in the early 2000s, at the end of when CO was still a purple state.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at January 23, 2026 11:41 AM (BI5O2)
154
I would have put the natural gas on the 'must have' list. I bought my first house naively in my early twenties and it was all electric. Never again.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (0U5gm)
++++
Natgas was on the "I *really* want this, but am willing to negotiate" list. I got it.
Actually, I got my entire list. Got lucky. And my realtor is good at her job.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:38 AM (0U5gm)
++++
Natgas was on the "I *really* want this, but am willing to negotiate" list. I got it.
Actually, I got my entire list. Got lucky. And my realtor is good at her job.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:41 AM (GyQIQ)
155
It's weird living in a time where the formerly admired and trusted institutions are so clearly stupid and blinded by ideology that we end up disregarding them entirely.
The NYT -- though always left -- was at least intellectually left. Now, they simply ping-pong back and forth between being incapable of putting a two-piece, magnetically aligned puzzle together and being perplexed that their formulaic solutions didn't work as expected, like that video of the multi-shaped puzzle box where the puzzle solver doesn't jump through all the hoops set up by the designer because they've found that all the different shaped pieces fit into the square hole.
The NYT -- though always left -- was at least intellectually left. Now, they simply ping-pong back and forth between being incapable of putting a two-piece, magnetically aligned puzzle together and being perplexed that their formulaic solutions didn't work as expected, like that video of the multi-shaped puzzle box where the puzzle solver doesn't jump through all the hoops set up by the designer because they've found that all the different shaped pieces fit into the square hole.
Posted by: red speck at January 23, 2026 11:42 AM (Ve/HL)
156
I think roofing must be an impossible job. I mean after all almost all roofs are slanted and we all know you can’t walk in a slanted roof… they oughta get hazard pay
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 23, 2026 11:42 AM (/iXAp)
157
Specialization pays in building trade. I know a guy that does fieldstone fireplace and chimneystacks who is booked out through next year; charges outrageous sums.
Specialization pays in building trade. I know a guy that does fieldstone fireplace and chimneystacks who is booked out through next year; charges outrageous sums.
Posted by: Auspex at January 23, 2026 11:42 AM (Y8DZL)
158
Me too. This place was built before construction records were kept, I guess, but the neighborhood was platted in the 1880s. A money pit.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:40 AM (N8ZBc)
But it has character!!!! lol
My wife and I knew what we’re getting into. It is an awesome Neighborhood. Tree lined street with 100 year old maples and what’s really cool is every house is different. No cookie cutter. Also walkable to a lot of things. In the summer I barely drive anywhere.
Is that worth the headaches? Maybe maybe not. We’ve been here 6 years and we’re both starting to think maybe we’ve had enough “character” and just want a house where we don’t have contractors on speed dial. 😀
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:40 AM (N8ZBc)
But it has character!!!! lol
My wife and I knew what we’re getting into. It is an awesome Neighborhood. Tree lined street with 100 year old maples and what’s really cool is every house is different. No cookie cutter. Also walkable to a lot of things. In the summer I barely drive anywhere.
Is that worth the headaches? Maybe maybe not. We’ve been here 6 years and we’re both starting to think maybe we’ve had enough “character” and just want a house where we don’t have contractors on speed dial. 😀
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (Ryx1w)
159
It's hard to get someone to understand when their livelihood relies on them not understanding.
Posted by: toby928(c) at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (jc0TO)
160
Joe's list of non-negotiables is pretty close to what ours was.
Except we didn't want a gas hookup, we wanted as few neighbors as possible with as little chance of development as possible. Which, of course, usually isn't compatible with gas lines. But no HOA, and no pool. Those were hard dealbreakers.
Except we didn't want a gas hookup, we wanted as few neighbors as possible with as little chance of development as possible. Which, of course, usually isn't compatible with gas lines. But no HOA, and no pool. Those were hard dealbreakers.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (06Hmj)
161
Good commentary, Buck.
I got my roof replaced in 2020. The guy running the business was white, most of the guys actually doing the work were tiny Mexicans and....boy did they do the job quick and efficiently.
I was honestly impressed (Pacific Pride Roofing, for those interested).
I got my roof replaced in 2020. The guy running the business was white, most of the guys actually doing the work were tiny Mexicans and....boy did they do the job quick and efficiently.
I was honestly impressed (Pacific Pride Roofing, for those interested).
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (xcxpd)
162
Willowed:
318 >>If a conservative can watch live sportsball (NFL and MLB) without paying for it, I've got no beef with that.
Well that's a relief.
Kind of hard to take seriously a condemnation of the NFL at a place that worships the next cartoon movie from Hollywood.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 10:58 AM (viF8m)
So, you're saying pirating it is the play...maybe there is some use for pirating after all...
318 >>If a conservative can watch live sportsball (NFL and MLB) without paying for it, I've got no beef with that.
Well that's a relief.
Kind of hard to take seriously a condemnation of the NFL at a place that worships the next cartoon movie from Hollywood.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 10:58 AM (viF8m)
So, you're saying pirating it is the play...maybe there is some use for pirating after all...
Posted by: Nova Local at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (tOcjL)
163
Do illegal roofers payed in hard cash pay income taxes. And cry me a river about no medical benefits. They show up in an ER, they'll be treated for free; so no expense there. Vacation time? Just quit for a couple of weeks and come back. And most of us should no they pay for no insurance, liability or otherwise and get off scot free if they're in an accident.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops
This is the primary problem with illegal labor (and outsourced labor, too). The sticker price isn't the actual price, because your tax dollars are subsidizing it. We exported inflation to the third world and are paying for it in welfare benefits. If we successfully get rid of illegal aliens and reimport manufacturing, our sticker prices will go up, but our taxes and government debt will go down.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops
This is the primary problem with illegal labor (and outsourced labor, too). The sticker price isn't the actual price, because your tax dollars are subsidizing it. We exported inflation to the third world and are paying for it in welfare benefits. If we successfully get rid of illegal aliens and reimport manufacturing, our sticker prices will go up, but our taxes and government debt will go down.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (0U5gm)
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (viF8m)
165
I'm not really sure what to think about this subject until I hear some sage wisdom from our highly respected member who hails from Brattleboro, Vermont.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (2Ez/1)
166
I would have put the natural gas on the 'must have' list. I bought my first house naively in my early twenties and it was all electric. Never again.
Posted by: Thomas Paine
A house not too far from us went kaboom! from natgas. Fortunately, nobody was home at the time. No way will I ever have natgas.
Posted by: Thomas Paine
A house not too far from us went kaboom! from natgas. Fortunately, nobody was home at the time. No way will I ever have natgas.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (77rzZ)
167
I watch new episodes of This Old House occasionally so I can see white guys still working the trades.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:45 AM (KDPiq)
168
But it has character!!!! lol ...
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (Ryx1w)
+++++
I rented a truly amazing place when I was in college. Old. Shabby. Dilapidated. Incredible.
I remember thinking to myself at the time, "it's a good thing I'm broke. If I weren't, I'd try to buy this place and it would ruin my life by the time I was done with it. But man, this place could be totally killer if restored to its former glory."
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:43 AM (Ryx1w)
+++++
I rented a truly amazing place when I was in college. Old. Shabby. Dilapidated. Incredible.
I remember thinking to myself at the time, "it's a good thing I'm broke. If I weren't, I'd try to buy this place and it would ruin my life by the time I was done with it. But man, this place could be totally killer if restored to its former glory."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:45 AM (GyQIQ)
169
If we remove illegals someone will fill their place but let's not pretend American kids go to bed at night with dreams of becoming a roofer.
——-
Nobody will work hard labor if they can soak up “benefits” and smoke weed all day.
There is a byzantine system of welfare and perverse incentives. The problem now of course, is the millions of illegals pouring across the border in recent decades discovered they don’t need to work either.
The word got out. Uncle Sugar is a Chump. Pay Americans not to work, whether or not one is “American”.
——-
Nobody will work hard labor if they can soak up “benefits” and smoke weed all day.
There is a byzantine system of welfare and perverse incentives. The problem now of course, is the millions of illegals pouring across the border in recent decades discovered they don’t need to work either.
The word got out. Uncle Sugar is a Chump. Pay Americans not to work, whether or not one is “American”.
Posted by: Common Tater at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (l+ype)
170
Looks 3/4 of mile north, no houses. 1/4 mile south 1 house. 300 acres open pasture to the west and ten acres if trees to the east
Posted by: Ben Had at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (0KSrI)
171
Am I weird that I like doing my lawn? I always get satisfaction afterwards sitting in the yard with a cold beer admiring my work.
Posted by: Really??
I could easily afford to pay someone to do it, but it is excellent thinking time.
Posted by: Really??
I could easily afford to pay someone to do it, but it is excellent thinking time.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (0U5gm)
172
Bulg notwithstanding I have natural gas and love it a lot. A natural gas stovetop is fantastic.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (pDt9x)
173
Seems a bit silly to wear a lid when you're roofing, now that I think of it.
What's going to hit you? A deorbiting satellite? Bird poop?
What's going to hit you? A deorbiting satellite? Bird poop?
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (06Hmj)
174
83 The young black man unemployment rate is something that doesn't have to exist. Open up trade schools in those areas instead of the standard college prep structure our schools are now.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
Posted by: Opinion fact
Sorry. Thug Culture only recognizes afflete, drug dealer, aspiring rapper and pimp as worthy goals. Anything else means getting up at 6 AM. They ain't interested. And it's not only blacks.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
Posted by: Opinion fact
Sorry. Thug Culture only recognizes afflete, drug dealer, aspiring rapper and pimp as worthy goals. Anything else means getting up at 6 AM. They ain't interested. And it's not only blacks.
Posted by: Fixin' To Rap, My Own Self at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (oftw2)
175
Out in Cali a small roof I had put on rental about 15 years ago for under $2500 was just quoted at $12,500. So somebody is making a shitload of money.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserious at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (xvV+O)
176
Seems a bit silly to wear a lid when you're roofing, now that I think of it.
What's going to hit you? A deorbiting satellite? Bird poop?
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (06Hmj)
++++
Brutal sun and bouncing rubble like nails and asphalt?
What's going to hit you? A deorbiting satellite? Bird poop?
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:47 AM (06Hmj)
++++
Brutal sun and bouncing rubble like nails and asphalt?
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (GyQIQ)
177
Part of the problem is fossilized building codes that make it hard for innovations in materials or technique to get established in the marketplace.
By the way. The top pic looks like the roof is being set up for metal roofing. If it were shingle or tile, there would be a continuous deck.
By the way. The top pic looks like the roof is being set up for metal roofing. If it were shingle or tile, there would be a continuous deck.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (8zz6B)
178
Half of the labor pool is by definition less skilled than the other, about the median. If only above-median workers can be hired, you'll have 50% unemployment.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (N8ZBc)
Not quite. A fair number of those below-median workers will look for work in some other field, where the median is a lot lower.
One thing that I've noticed is that wages tend to be static if you stay with the same company/industry. Yay, I got a 2% raise this year! If your raise doesn't exceed the inflation rate at the time, your company is just patting you on the head and expecting that you'll slob the CEO's knob for your 4% DECREASE in purchasing power.
You want to get ahead of your dead-end job? Move to another industry, jump ship to another firm, or start your own company. Tough to do, and it doesn't always work, but that's the only way you'll make real gains unless you have some sort of high-end professional education in a field with licensing to restrict entry.
Or you could start your own Somali day care...
Half of the labor pool is by definition less skilled than the other, about the median. If only above-median workers can be hired, you'll have 50% unemployment.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:18 AM (N8ZBc)
Not quite. A fair number of those below-median workers will look for work in some other field, where the median is a lot lower.
One thing that I've noticed is that wages tend to be static if you stay with the same company/industry. Yay, I got a 2% raise this year! If your raise doesn't exceed the inflation rate at the time, your company is just patting you on the head and expecting that you'll slob the CEO's knob for your 4% DECREASE in purchasing power.
You want to get ahead of your dead-end job? Move to another industry, jump ship to another firm, or start your own company. Tough to do, and it doesn't always work, but that's the only way you'll make real gains unless you have some sort of high-end professional education in a field with licensing to restrict entry.
Or you could start your own Somali day care...
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (y9nCu)
179
Again, I don't care who watches or doesn't watch the NFL. I think whatever wants to do is fine. Even if I watched the SB I probably wouldn't be watching some guy in a dress and a tribute to gay icons.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (2sfNr)
180
Why pay 2 union laborers, including benefits, when you can get 5 illegal laborers with no benefits cheaper?
The system is broken. I wonder what Secretary Chavez-DeRemer has to say.
The system is broken. I wonder what Secretary Chavez-DeRemer has to say.
Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (oT7pT)
181
Or mooching off mom and dad. My first job, not that long ago in the grand scheme of things? Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever.
--------------
Come on Dude. It was fun spraying your other loser friends with the rinse spray hose.
--------------
Come on Dude. It was fun spraying your other loser friends with the rinse spray hose.
Posted by: pudinhead at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (pLaQB)
182
Mornin' Buck!
My neighborhood has 42 homes. All between 24-27 years old. Over half have had new roofs out on in the last couple years. All were done by mexi...errr...latinos excspt one firm was own and operated by Sikhs. Only the foremen were anglo. All did pretty good work but one company, but then half way thru the job all the workers disappeared. Neighbor was pissed!
My neighborhood has 42 homes. All between 24-27 years old. Over half have had new roofs out on in the last couple years. All were done by mexi...errr...latinos excspt one firm was own and operated by Sikhs. Only the foremen were anglo. All did pretty good work but one company, but then half way thru the job all the workers disappeared. Neighbor was pissed!
Posted by: Diogenes at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (2WIwB)
183
Buy a home with 'character' cheap after it has been fixed up by the guy it ruined.
Posted by: davidt at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (Q+gd/)
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (bb1Tf)
185
Roofers wear wide brimmed hats with neck coverings sewn in. Also, long sleeved shirts and usually knee pads. This is known.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 11:50 AM (pDt9x)
186
Younger son is working in Omaha this week - travelling tomorrow from PNW. Hopefully he's not too affected by the doomsday storm....
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 11:50 AM (QGaXH)
187
180 Why pay 2 union laborers, including benefits, when you can get 5 illegal laborers with no benefits cheaper?
The system is broken. I wonder what Secretary Chavez-DeRemer has to say.
Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (oT7pT)
If it's work inside your house, the reason should be obvious...
Outside only work is less clear cut.
The system is broken. I wonder what Secretary Chavez-DeRemer has to say.
Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (oT7pT)
If it's work inside your house, the reason should be obvious...
Outside only work is less clear cut.
Posted by: Nova Local at January 23, 2026 11:50 AM (tOcjL)
188
Silver Spot price $101.39 per oz. That means an average condition Silver dime (pre-1965) has $7.24 worth of silver in it. Gold at $4999.40 per oz.
Posted by: An Observation sez Trump is my President at January 23, 2026 11:50 AM (Da7Vv)
189
but somewhere in recent decades, we have seen a dangerous mindset take hold. It has become widely accepted that pretty much any labor expense is too high, and if labor can’t be offshored to places with wages and work conditions below American standards, then illegal forms of chattel labor need to be imported into the U.S.
People want indentured servants or slaves, if they can have them, so long as they have a fig leaf to deny that truth.
People want indentured servants or slaves, if they can have them, so long as they have a fig leaf to deny that truth.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (44PAK)
190
This bikini brunette on a boat appreciates a good, solid roof:
http://tiny.cc/jm1y001
http://tiny.cc/jm1y001
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (GyQIQ)
191
Bulg notwithstanding I have natural gas and love it a lot. A natural gas stovetop is fantastic.
Posted by: tubal
Same. I cannot cook well on electric, and when I had electric heat, I could not afford to be inside the house with no coat on, it was so expensive to heat.
Posted by: tubal
Same. I cannot cook well on electric, and when I had electric heat, I could not afford to be inside the house with no coat on, it was so expensive to heat.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (0U5gm)
192
The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM
Around here they pad out the bill they send to the insurance company by what your deductible is so you don't have to write them a check. They do the job for what the insurance pays them.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 11:33 AM
Around here they pad out the bill they send to the insurance company by what your deductible is so you don't have to write them a check. They do the job for what the insurance pays them.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (0N4FZ)
193
But when I was shopping for a house, I gave my realtor only three hard and fast rules. Everything else (number of bedrooms, does it have natgas, etc.) was negotiable. I had a long list of "nice to haves" but the list of "must haves" was very short:
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
I've talked to a lot of people who refuse to consider anything built after 2008-2010 or so. They say quality just generally fell off a cliff around that point.
- No HOA
- No pool
- Built before 1990
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)
I've talked to a lot of people who refuse to consider anything built after 2008-2010 or so. They say quality just generally fell off a cliff around that point.
Posted by: Brother Tim (102mm/W59), Keeper of the Tim Continuum at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (OUMaO)
194
179. Sorry. That was supposed to go in the previous thread.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (2sfNr)
195
But man, this place could be totally killer if restored to its former glory."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:45 AM (GyQIQ)
When I first came up to CT, rented/lived in a small cottage just north of Darien. Built in the 1800's - a pipe broke while I was there and when the repair guy broke the wall to replace it, he found news papers from the turn of the century behind the walls being used as insulation.
I loved that cottage.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:45 AM (GyQIQ)
When I first came up to CT, rented/lived in a small cottage just north of Darien. Built in the 1800's - a pipe broke while I was there and when the repair guy broke the wall to replace it, he found news papers from the turn of the century behind the walls being used as insulation.
I loved that cottage.
Posted by: Boswell at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (BGfwC)
196
Buy a home with 'character' cheap after it has been fixed up by the guy it ruined.
Posted by: davidt at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (Q+gd/)
But it’s never fixed. It’s always in a state of fixing. That’s the problem.
My house was renovated. But the bones are still 120 years old. You can never renovate that away.
Posted by: davidt at January 23, 2026 11:49 AM (Q+gd/)
But it’s never fixed. It’s always in a state of fixing. That’s the problem.
My house was renovated. But the bones are still 120 years old. You can never renovate that away.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (Ryx1w)
197
On a happier note. Something for the nothing will happen guy.
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (viF8m)
Damn! The Three Stooges sure went to seed after they died...
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (viF8m)
Damn! The Three Stooges sure went to seed after they died...
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (8zz6B)
198
One thing you fail to mention is the unemployment insurance costs, liability incidence, and the big kicker workers comp for a job like roofing. Those three double the out more the actual hourly wage paid by the employer.
Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserious at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (xvV+O)
199
Trumpf is deporting roofers of coler to make his friends rich! We hope Presnent Obama will stop him and support The FART Tube program before it is too late.
Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein Of Brattleboro, VT at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (oftw2)
200
190 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (GyQIQ)
Thank you Mr. Mannix!
Thank you Mr. Mannix!
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (QGaXH)
201
The NFL product on the field is so bad anymore…. Too many rules in the name of player safety make playing defense almost impossible… then a bunch of lawyer officials that make every call and yellow flag and replay into a legal brief…. Many great players of the past couldn’t play now… Dick Butkus, Lawrence Taylor etc… they’d have a 15 yard penalty every other play. Tells you all you need to know…. But I’ll still probably watch the SB shrug
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (YobFY)
202
But it’s never fixed. It’s always in a state of fixing. That’s the problem.
My house was renovated. But the bones are still 120 years old. You can never renovate that away.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (Ryx1w)
++++
"Home ownership" is a misnomer. "Long-term maintenance and repair management" is closer!
My house was renovated. But the bones are still 120 years old. You can never renovate that away.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (Ryx1w)
++++
"Home ownership" is a misnomer. "Long-term maintenance and repair management" is closer!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (GyQIQ)
203
Sorry. That was supposed to go in the previous thread.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (2sfNr)
Nah. It's never a bad time to resurrect a long standing argument.
No long standing argument, no comment section. No comment section, no shelves.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (2sfNr)
Nah. It's never a bad time to resurrect a long standing argument.
No long standing argument, no comment section. No comment section, no shelves.
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (bb1Tf)
204
"Home ownership" is a misnomer. "Long-term maintenance and repair management" is closer!
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (GyQIQ)
++++
"Constant combat against entropy" would be another.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (GyQIQ)
++++
"Constant combat against entropy" would be another.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (GyQIQ)
205
"On a happier note. Something for the nothing will happen guy.
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw'
These low end losers got their pictures on the internet and are now heroes to the left. Will they do jail time?
Otherwise, for the people that put them up to it, nothing happened.
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw'
These low end losers got their pictures on the internet and are now heroes to the left. Will they do jail time?
Otherwise, for the people that put them up to it, nothing happened.
Posted by: Guy who always says "Nothing will happen" and is usually right at January 23, 2026 11:53 AM (vFG9F)
206
Just getting started on my AoS day. Happy Frigid Friday, y'all.
When we built the new house a few years ago, the roofing crew was Amish from up in Kansas. They were amazing acrobats as well as quick. I did not check their citizenship, although they had their own language.
The young concrete crew, on the other hand… well, also had their own lingua. They did do a muy bueno job. The old boss, at least, used to work for my grandfather back in the last century. I assumed he was 'Merican.
When we built the new house a few years ago, the roofing crew was Amish from up in Kansas. They were amazing acrobats as well as quick. I did not check their citizenship, although they had their own language.
The young concrete crew, on the other hand… well, also had their own lingua. They did do a muy bueno job. The old boss, at least, used to work for my grandfather back in the last century. I assumed he was 'Merican.
Posted by: mindful webworker does not hire extraterrestrials at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (OJSFI)
Posted by: But she won't drown at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (2Ez/1)
208
My house was renovated. But the bones are still 120 years old. You can never renovate that away.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (Ryx1w)
Hooray, wiremold!
Ugly, horrid, wiremold...
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (Ryx1w)
Hooray, wiremold!
Ugly, horrid, wiremold...
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (06Hmj)
209
Dick Buttkiss? Isn't he doing the halftime show?
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (bb1Tf)
210
I just can't be made to care about unions, ever. And health insurance is the stupidest way to pay for "healthcare". I would agree more if you would focus on getting government out of the workplace, the hospital and off my roof.
Buck, all your solutions seem to be more government interference in our lives. I just don't think those are good ideas since the problems are caused by government in the first place. It seems that you just can't see the irony in this statement: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Buck, all your solutions seem to be more government interference in our lives. I just don't think those are good ideas since the problems are caused by government in the first place. It seems that you just can't see the irony in this statement: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (+48wn)
211
More from recent editions of the New York Times:
It Is A Mystery Why US K-12 Test Scores Continue Declining.
Welfare Fraud Allegations Are Sinister and Not What Jesus Would Do.
It Is A Mystery Why Out-Of-Work Middle-Aged Coal Miners In West Virginia Have Not Moved to The West Coast For High-Paying Software Coding Jobs.
It Is A Mystery Why US K-12 Test Scores Continue Declining.
Welfare Fraud Allegations Are Sinister and Not What Jesus Would Do.
It Is A Mystery Why Out-Of-Work Middle-Aged Coal Miners In West Virginia Have Not Moved to The West Coast For High-Paying Software Coding Jobs.
Posted by: Gref at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (5rh/l)
212
Had a house built in 1918. When doing a room remodel discovered quite a few things. Lathe and plaster walls, plaster infused with horsehair I guess. The studs were sawn oak and legit 2x4s.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (pDt9x)
213
If they did, you wouldn't have wetbacks taking over.
A graph of prices, the inverse of quality, and taxes to our local, state, and national criminal organizations would probably track directly with the influx of immigrants (both illegal and illegitimately legal).
We paid dearly for all this money we were saving.
A graph of prices, the inverse of quality, and taxes to our local, state, and national criminal organizations would probably track directly with the influx of immigrants (both illegal and illegitimately legal).
We paid dearly for all this money we were saving.
Posted by: t-bird at January 23, 2026 11:54 AM (wj4wL)
214
Morning.
Back home from the road just in time to suffer the worst gout attack I've ever had. It's hitting both feet AND my right knee. Had to scooch down the stairs on my ass. None of my meds are working.
I feel like I need to be put out of my misery. TJM and Anna are both cordially invited to end my pain. As payment, they can rifle through my DVD and Blu-ray collection for whatever they want.
Back home from the road just in time to suffer the worst gout attack I've ever had. It's hitting both feet AND my right knee. Had to scooch down the stairs on my ass. None of my meds are working.
I feel like I need to be put out of my misery. TJM and Anna are both cordially invited to end my pain. As payment, they can rifle through my DVD and Blu-ray collection for whatever they want.
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
215
A large apartment complex went up last year, about a mile away. Watching the roof Aztecs was entertaining. No safety gear whatsoever, and the guys walking around, sometimes on exposed joists, with the balance of a Mohawk iron worker.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (gm9Sb)
216
What's not cheap is plumbing but people are finding you can get independent Jose the handyman change out a toilet at a quarter of what a plumbing firm would charge and just as good.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (KDPiq)
217
197 On a happier note. Something for the nothing will happen guy.
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (viF8m)
Damn! The Three Stooges sure went to seed after they died...
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (8zz6B)
I'm with nothing will happen guy in that I predict no convictions or fines and Big Mouth Retard Don Lemon skates completely.
https://tinyurl.com/38kjkua4
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:44 AM (viF8m)
Damn! The Three Stooges sure went to seed after they died...
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (8zz6B)
I'm with nothing will happen guy in that I predict no convictions or fines and Big Mouth Retard Don Lemon skates completely.
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (QGaXH)
218
"Home ownership" is a misnomer.
-------
I thought you said homoworship and we were back on the NFL
-------
I thought you said homoworship and we were back on the NFL
Posted by: ... at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (bb1Tf)
Posted by: Quality Learing Center at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (wj4wL)
220
>>Brutal sun and bouncing rubble like nails and asphalt?
Terra firma when you miss a step and fall off the roof.
Ask my how I know.
Terra firma when you miss a step and fall off the roof.
Ask my how I know.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (viF8m)
221
Replacing my roof with immigrants cost 30K. Not paying 45K+ for the honor of having American-born laborers doing.
Maybe the problem is the roofing industry itself. No way a new roof should cost 30K to begin with.
Maybe the problem is the roofing industry itself. No way a new roof should cost 30K to begin with.
Posted by: Diabeetus at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (S+el1)
222
Me: "I own a house now!"
The Bank: "I mean, technically... we do."
Me, later: "OK, NOW I own a house, finally!"
The School Board and the County: "Heh. Sure ya do, bub. Suuuure ya do."
The Bank: "I mean, technically... we do."
Me, later: "OK, NOW I own a house, finally!"
The School Board and the County: "Heh. Sure ya do, bub. Suuuure ya do."
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (06Hmj)
223
The young black man unemployment rate is something that doesn't have to exist. Open up trade schools in those areas instead of the standard college prep structure our schools are now.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
Posted by: Opinion fact
Sorry. Thug Culture only recognizes afflete, drug dealer, aspiring rapper and pimp as worthy goals. Anything else means getting up at 6 AM. They ain't interested. And it's not only blacks.
Posted by: Fixin' To Rap, My Own Self at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (oftw2)
==
Minimum wage laws would like to speak to you.
I think it should be done in all areas where the majority of the school aged students won't go to college.
Posted by: Opinion fact
Sorry. Thug Culture only recognizes afflete, drug dealer, aspiring rapper and pimp as worthy goals. Anything else means getting up at 6 AM. They ain't interested. And it's not only blacks.
Posted by: Fixin' To Rap, My Own Self at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (oftw2)
==
Minimum wage laws would like to speak to you.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (GZYu7)
224
220 >>Brutal sun and bouncing rubble like nails and asphalt?
Terra firma when you miss a step and fall off the roof.
Ask my how I know.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (viF8m)
Protip - hire it done if you are over 40.
Terra firma when you miss a step and fall off the roof.
Ask my how I know.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:56 AM (viF8m)
Protip - hire it done if you are over 40.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (pDt9x)
225
Earl S: Thank you for rebutting an argument I didn’t make.
Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (i3FI/)
226
The first time I replaced this roof, it cost $2K. The second time, 18 years ago, it cost $12K. I'm hoping this roof will outlive me, because I can't afford to do it again.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic
Insurance is similar to government intervention in that it masks the true cost of things, because the person getting the product or service is not directly paying for it. Without clear sight of the actual cost, it is easy for prices to get out of control. Look at the fastest rising costs; medical, autos, housing, college. All of these are impacted by at least part of the costs being disguised in some way.
Posted by: gp at January 23, 2026 11:14 AM (N8ZBc)
I wonder how much of that is from people replacing their roofs every 18 months via insurance. Yo, homie, insurance will pay us 12K so the price is 12K.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic
Insurance is similar to government intervention in that it masks the true cost of things, because the person getting the product or service is not directly paying for it. Without clear sight of the actual cost, it is easy for prices to get out of control. Look at the fastest rising costs; medical, autos, housing, college. All of these are impacted by at least part of the costs being disguised in some way.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (0U5gm)
227
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
I'm sorry. You have medication or it's not helping?
I'm sorry. You have medication or it's not helping?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (2sfNr)
228
Ahhhh...the joys of home ownership.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (XeU6L)
229
>>These low end losers got their pictures on the internet and are now heroes to the left. Will they do jail time?
One of them is the head of the local BLM chapter and has made over $1 million in fraud.
Sorry, nothing will happen guy. You're wrong again.
One of them is the head of the local BLM chapter and has made over $1 million in fraud.
Sorry, nothing will happen guy. You're wrong again.
Posted by: JackStraw at January 23, 2026 11:58 AM (viF8m)
230
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
================
Robert, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
================
Robert, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (4raxU)
231
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
Drink lots and lots of water and ice the areas.
Got to get the uric acid out of your system. No alcohol.
Drink lots and lots of water and ice the areas.
Got to get the uric acid out of your system. No alcohol.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (KDPiq)
232
I'm grimly amused at the idea of anyone physically going to a Black Lives Matter meeting in 2026.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (06Hmj)
233
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
Sorry; I missed that part. Can you go get something else before you have to go on the road again?
Sorry; I missed that part. Can you go get something else before you have to go on the road again?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (2sfNr)
234
FYI - Got a denial from the VA error today...so that's 0-2. At least this time, they confirmed toxic exposure, disability, but a less likely than not disability from exposure...so I got an actual legal standard decision from a nurse vs a homeopath for blood cancer.
As I told the spouse, the Bible says it's harder for the rich man to get heaven than the poor man, so Someone upstairs is just looking out for me...yeah, that's the silver lining.
Gonna sit on it a few months, watch the class actions that are going on for the exposure (and see how/if they settle), and decide if I want to do a real appeal. Leaning no b/c it's not like my voting and life profile change and that obviously is mattering (b/c why else did I get an uber-rare non-familial blood cancer pre-Covid in my early 40s)...but we'll see.
And I did say at the beginning, I'd rather get denied by the VA and have treatment work great, so Someone must have been listening.
I wish they hadn't admitted initial error b/c it was more work on my part for stil zero, zip, zilch. And that's annoying and a downer on a Friday.
As I told the spouse, the Bible says it's harder for the rich man to get heaven than the poor man, so Someone upstairs is just looking out for me...yeah, that's the silver lining.
Gonna sit on it a few months, watch the class actions that are going on for the exposure (and see how/if they settle), and decide if I want to do a real appeal. Leaning no b/c it's not like my voting and life profile change and that obviously is mattering (b/c why else did I get an uber-rare non-familial blood cancer pre-Covid in my early 40s)...but we'll see.
And I did say at the beginning, I'd rather get denied by the VA and have treatment work great, so Someone must have been listening.
I wish they hadn't admitted initial error b/c it was more work on my part for stil zero, zip, zilch. And that's annoying and a downer on a Friday.
Posted by: Nova Local at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (tOcjL)
235
We were blessed with being able to buy our house at a good price for cash. The obverse side of that coin is that my wife is a remodeler. Oh how she loves to “ make a few changes”. We are always living in a construction zone.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (pDt9x)
236
"Sorry, nothing will happen guy. You're wrong again.
Posted by: JackStraw "
*holds breath*
*passes out*
Posted by: JackStraw "
*holds breath*
*passes out*
Posted by: Guy who always says "Nothing will happen" and is usually right at January 23, 2026 12:01 PM (vFG9F)
237
A couple of weeks ago, I posted the standard roof replacement pricing, this pricing is based on the current workforce, if the workforce is a domestic workforce, you can add 25pct to the pricing, ie a $7500 roof becomes $10k an $11k roof becomes $15k and so on.
Posted by: Thomas Bender at January 23, 2026 12:01 PM (Ng1On)
238
Replacing my roof with immigrants cost 30K. Not paying 45K+ for the honor of having American-born laborers doing.
Maybe the problem is the roofing industry itself. No way a new roof should cost 30K to begin with.
-----
The problem is that the illegals haven't all self-deported...yet. If we get 3 more years of Trump and 8 years of Vance, that could happen.
Maybe the problem is the roofing industry itself. No way a new roof should cost 30K to begin with.
-----
The problem is that the illegals haven't all self-deported...yet. If we get 3 more years of Trump and 8 years of Vance, that could happen.
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (TN0g+)
239
The NFL product on the field is so bad anymore…. Too many rules in the name of player safety make playing defense almost impossible… then a bunch of lawyer officials that make every call and yellow flag and replay into a legal brief…. Many great players of the past couldn’t play now… Dick Butkus, Lawrence Taylor etc… they’d have a 15 yard penalty every other play. Tells you all you need to know…. But I’ll still probably watch the SB shrug
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (YobFY)
I recall, back when I watched football, Aikman making the comment that they needed to put QBs in dresses if they weren't allowed to get hit.
Posted by: LinusVanPelt at January 23, 2026 11:52 AM (YobFY)
I recall, back when I watched football, Aikman making the comment that they needed to put QBs in dresses if they weren't allowed to get hit.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (ExV1e)
240
Falling meth heads does indicate a need for hardhats I suppose.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (pDt9x)
241
226 Insurance is similar to government intervention in that it masks the true cost of things, because the person getting the product or service is not directly paying for it. Without clear sight of the actual cost, it is easy for prices to get out of control. Look at the fastest rising costs; medical, autos, housing, college. All of these are impacted by at least part of the costs being disguised in some way.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (0U5gm)
What are two things the gubmint has poured money into the last 50 years? Medical care and colleges/universities.
What are two things who's costs have far outpaced the rate of inflation over the past 50 years? Medical Care and colleges/universities
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 23, 2026 11:57 AM (0U5gm)
What are two things the gubmint has poured money into the last 50 years? Medical care and colleges/universities.
What are two things who's costs have far outpaced the rate of inflation over the past 50 years? Medical Care and colleges/universities
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (QGaXH)
242
The last project I clerked had a really great superintendent. For concrete work, he always got a Mexican American that brought up family from Mexico. Squeaky clean on the immigration stuff, do the work, get paid, go home. One of the guys showed me a picture of his house and family in the old country, and they were living large. Anyway, I asked the super how much the bid came into play, and he said it did, but only about 15%. The big deal was they were on time before punch out.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (gm9Sb)
243
Roofing is brutal back breaking work. One thing that helped over the years is the boom trucks. They can boom the shingles onto the roof so you won't be up and down the ladder 1000 times with bundles of shingles. Still, its a shit job. As others mentioned, nobody wants to do it. You see a shit ton of immigrants doing it because on the whole, its brain dead. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of thinking. The procedure is somewhat straight forward and literally a caveman can do it once they learn the few basic rules. Electrical and plumbing on the other hand, you don't see illegals doing that. You don't see many doing finish carpentry either. I can roof, but you can't pay me enough to do it. Hell no, it sucks. I had my roof done this past june. 55 squares, and they blew it out in a day and a half and that was with them doing a tear off, and changing a few sections of plywood around the skylights, and they rebuilt the crick behind the chimney. This was the roof crew my brother uses on his jobs. They do have green cards, they are all legal. My brother don't fuck around when it comes to that.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at January 23, 2026 12:02 PM (snZF9)
244
Y'know, you could just win the roofing lottery.
Years ago, a friend of mine came home from work to find that a roofing crew was about half-way through putting in a new roof on her place. They'd gone to the wrong house. She jumped back in her car and spent the next couple of days with her boyfriend.
Roofing company tried to get her to pay full rate, she told them to go pound sand, because they didn't have a single signature from her. Someone had to have been SOOOOO fired after that one.
She settled on paying for materials, but not a penny for the labor.
Y'know, you could just win the roofing lottery.
Years ago, a friend of mine came home from work to find that a roofing crew was about half-way through putting in a new roof on her place. They'd gone to the wrong house. She jumped back in her car and spent the next couple of days with her boyfriend.
Roofing company tried to get her to pay full rate, she told them to go pound sand, because they didn't have a single signature from her. Someone had to have been SOOOOO fired after that one.
She settled on paying for materials, but not a penny for the labor.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (y9nCu)
245
I've talked to a lot of people who refuse to consider anything built after 2008-2010 or so. They say quality just generally fell off a cliff around that point.
Posted by: Brother Tim (102mm/W59), Keeper of the Tim Continuum at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (OUMaO)
==
No - earlier than that. Bought a nice speck home - someone had lived in it before us. Built in 1999. Outside Window trim was put in improperly causing water damage, some outer walls were not insulated. The windows were not very good. I have replaced roof windows, gutters, doors. Debating on some siding insulation issues.
Posted by: Brother Tim (102mm/W59), Keeper of the Tim Continuum at January 23, 2026 11:51 AM (OUMaO)
==
No - earlier than that. Bought a nice speck home - someone had lived in it before us. Built in 1999. Outside Window trim was put in improperly causing water damage, some outer walls were not insulated. The windows were not very good. I have replaced roof windows, gutters, doors. Debating on some siding insulation issues.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (GZYu7)
246
Renting looks better and better. Home ownership really is a pain in the ass and expensive.
Yes there is appreciation and every mortgage payment some of that is your as payment towards principal. I’ve done the home owning thing for a long time, and own some rentals as well. I often think my tenants are smarter than me, haha.
Yes there is appreciation and every mortgage payment some of that is your as payment towards principal. I’ve done the home owning thing for a long time, and own some rentals as well. I often think my tenants are smarter than me, haha.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (Ryx1w)
247
Or, you know, a bunch of guys who expect a no-show job and who will shut down your site if they don't get them. Either that, or break your knees.
Posted by: Archimedes
Probably depends on which union and where you are. No doubt some place and halls are better than others.
And from what I've been told, the illegal are cheaper and faster because they only do about 2/3ds of the job
Posted by: Archimedes
Probably depends on which union and where you are. No doubt some place and halls are better than others.
And from what I've been told, the illegal are cheaper and faster because they only do about 2/3ds of the job
Posted by: FeatherBlade at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (a+4eV)
248
230
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
================
Robert, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (4raxU)
Seconded! Hope you feel better soon!
Posted by: Robert at January 23, 2026 11:55 AM (1Yy3c)
================
Robert, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Posted by: Blonde Morticia at January 23, 2026 11:59 AM (4raxU)
Seconded! Hope you feel better soon!
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (QGaXH)
Posted by: Crusader at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (TN0g+)
250
174 Sorry. Thug Culture only recognizes afflete, drug dealer, aspiring rapper and pimp as worthy goals. Anything else means getting up at 6 AM. They ain't interested. And it's not only blacks.
Posted by: Fixin' To Rap, My Own Self at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (oftw2)
Sometimes, you can add preacher to that list.
Sometimes.
Posted by: Fixin' To Rap, My Own Self at January 23, 2026 11:48 AM (oftw2)
Sometimes, you can add preacher to that list.
Sometimes.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 12:04 PM (iXqHn)
251
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (y9nCu)
I wouldn't have paid for anything but I assume she felt a tad guilty knowing they were putting on a new roof.
I wouldn't have paid for anything but I assume she felt a tad guilty knowing they were putting on a new roof.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (KDPiq)
252
246 Renting looks better and better. Home ownership really is a pain in the ass and expensive.
Yes there is appreciation and every mortgage payment some of that is your as payment towards principal. I’ve done the home owning thing for a long time, and own some rentals as well. I often think my tenants are smarter than me, haha.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (Ryx1w)
Until they're at an age where they can't work anymore, and the rent costs even more than the yearly property tax would.
Yes there is appreciation and every mortgage payment some of that is your as payment towards principal. I’ve done the home owning thing for a long time, and own some rentals as well. I often think my tenants are smarter than me, haha.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (Ryx1w)
Until they're at an age where they can't work anymore, and the rent costs even more than the yearly property tax would.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (iXqHn)
253
Yes there is appreciation and every mortgage payment some of that is your as payment towards principal. I’ve done the home owning thing for a long time, and own some rentals as well. I often think my tenants are smarter than me, haha.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (Ryx1w)
+++++
It makes a YUGE difference in terms of ability to retire for tons of folks.
Not having a housing payment in retirement is easily the difference between retiring or not for a lot of people. The payoff on ownership for many is much lower and more predictable prices in the distant future.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (Ryx1w)
+++++
It makes a YUGE difference in terms of ability to retire for tons of folks.
Not having a housing payment in retirement is easily the difference between retiring or not for a lot of people. The payoff on ownership for many is much lower and more predictable prices in the distant future.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (GyQIQ)
254
Just had our roof replaced 3 months ago and not a single worker spoke english. But they are fast and efficient! They tore the old shingles down in a day and replaced the whole thing the next 2 days, it was crazy. I took them donuts and RedBulls the morning of day 2 and they were very polite and said thank you, but that was the extent of our conversation.
Posted by: TSpoon at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (VYV5/)
255
253 It makes a YUGE difference in terms of ability to retire for tons of folks.
Not having a housing payment in retirement is easily the difference between retiring or not for a lot of people. The payoff on ownership for many is much lower and more predictable prices in the distant future.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (GyQIQ)
======
"I'll just put the difference between my rent and what a mortgage would be in a Roth IRA."
-everyone
"I actually did that."
-no one
Not having a housing payment in retirement is easily the difference between retiring or not for a lot of people. The payoff on ownership for many is much lower and more predictable prices in the distant future.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (GyQIQ)
======
"I'll just put the difference between my rent and what a mortgage would be in a Roth IRA."
-everyone
"I actually did that."
-no one
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, barreling through the action thrills with Wolfgang Petersen at January 23, 2026 12:06 PM (GBKbO)
Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at January 23, 2026 12:06 PM (pbBzW)
257
All this talk about houses and not one word about municipal Hysterical Associations that have the power to deny permits on any work they think might disturb the neighborhood's character?
Far worse than HOAs.
Far worse than HOAs.
Posted by: Jack Squat Bupkis at January 23, 2026 12:06 PM (GD2xa)
258
No - earlier than that. Bought a nice speck home - someone had lived in it before us. Built in 1999. Outside Window trim was put in improperly causing water damage, some outer walls were not insulated. The windows were not very good. I have replaced roof windows, gutters, doors. Debating on some siding insulation issues.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (GZYu7)
Even the best built house has to have those things replaced over 27 years.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (GZYu7)
Even the best built house has to have those things replaced over 27 years.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:07 PM (Ryx1w)
259
Maybe the NYT can do a piece the measles outbreak we are experiencing, something that had been eradicated before illegal immigration wen through the roof.
It is a mystery.
It is a mystery.
Posted by: Ripley at January 23, 2026 12:07 PM (GUOwU)
260
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (GyQIQ)
No mortgage was the reason I was able to retire early.
No mortgage was the reason I was able to retire early.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 12:07 PM (KDPiq)
261
Posted by: bill in arkansas,
Senor, before I forget, i wanted to thank you. Bought your old KIA at a great price from a shade tree mechanic who "fixed" it up fine. Many, many , miles left on it to travel to my roofing jobs! Only "crabs" a bit riding down the road, and a salvage title is the best kind! You loos-my gain!
Senor, before I forget, i wanted to thank you. Bought your old KIA at a great price from a shade tree mechanic who "fixed" it up fine. Many, many , miles left on it to travel to my roofing jobs! Only "crabs" a bit riding down the road, and a salvage title is the best kind! You loos-my gain!
Posted by: Umberto On The Roof at January 23, 2026 12:08 PM (oftw2)
262
I wouldn't have paid for anything but I assume she felt a tad guilty knowing they were putting on a new roof.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (KDPiq)
Got it in one. Personally, I'd have been a dick.
I wouldn't have paid for anything but I assume she felt a tad guilty knowing they were putting on a new roof.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 12:05 PM (KDPiq)
Got it in one. Personally, I'd have been a dick.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 12:08 PM (y9nCu)
263
Not having a housing payment in retirement is easily the difference between retiring or not for a lot of people. The payoff on ownership for many is much lower and more predictable prices in the distant future.
-
You all always have a payment for insurance, taxes and maintenance. Plus if you sell the house and invest the money you will essentially live rent free from the yearly returns.
-
You all always have a payment for insurance, taxes and maintenance. Plus if you sell the house and invest the money you will essentially live rent free from the yearly returns.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (Ryx1w)
264
The obverse side of that coin is that my wife is a remodeler. Oh how she loves to “ make a few changes”. We are always living in a construction zone.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (pDt9x)
My wife is also a remodeler but she can never decide how she wants to remodel so nothing ever gets done. Peaceful and inexpensive.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (pDt9x)
My wife is also a remodeler but she can never decide how she wants to remodel so nothing ever gets done. Peaceful and inexpensive.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (ExV1e)
265
Got it in one. Personally, I'd have been a dick.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 12:08 PM (y9nCu)
She should have told them to re-do it, because they used the wrong color chingles.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 23, 2026 12:08 PM (y9nCu)
She should have told them to re-do it, because they used the wrong color chingles.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (8zz6B)
266
Buck, well it must have been in the penumbras and emanations.
Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at January 23, 2026 12:10 PM (+48wn)
267
Just can't imagine why quality went down when illegals were hired at illegal wages.
It is a conundrum!
It is a conundrum!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 23, 2026 12:10 PM (qo38o)
268
Robert, I hope you get better soon.
Posted by: NR Pax at January 23, 2026 12:10 PM (BpO1e)
269
She settled on paying for materials, but not a penny for the labor.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur
She's a better person than me.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur
She's a better person than me.
Posted by: NR Pax at January 23, 2026 12:11 PM (BpO1e)
270
264 The obverse side of that coin is that my wife is a remodeler. Oh how she loves to “ make a few changes”. We are always living in a construction zone.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (pDt9x)
My wife is also a remodeler but she can never decide how she wants to remodel so nothing ever gets done. Peaceful and inexpensive.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (ExV1e)
Hmmm. Envy is a sin, so I must resist.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:00 PM (pDt9x)
My wife is also a remodeler but she can never decide how she wants to remodel so nothing ever gets done. Peaceful and inexpensive.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (ExV1e)
Hmmm. Envy is a sin, so I must resist.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:11 PM (pDt9x)
271
If we remove illegals someone will fill their place but let's not pretend American kids go to bed at night with dreams of becoming a roofer.
Of course.
Like an awful lot of jobs involving manual labor, it is hard, undesirable work. But hard and undesirable should translate into decent wages. It doesn't though because "we've" decided to import third-worlders instead.
Of course.
Like an awful lot of jobs involving manual labor, it is hard, undesirable work. But hard and undesirable should translate into decent wages. It doesn't though because "we've" decided to import third-worlders instead.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at January 23, 2026 12:12 PM (44PAK)
272
The case for the union is that every job is only a ew days. The setup cost or health insurance, retirement, etc. is prohibitive. It's much better for a contractor to outsource all that administration to the union
Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at January 23, 2026 12:12 PM (bcc6F)
273
256 What is the point?
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 12:12 PM (QGaXH)
274
261 Heh. Heh.
Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at January 23, 2026 12:12 PM (gm9Sb)
275
I did roofing back in the 70's, built up roofing first, then shingles, I was skinny, tanned and fast. In 1980 I did my fathers roof by myself in two weeks from tear off to shingles. I got an Weatherby .270 Magnum and a Yamaha XS 850 Special as payment, still have the .270, wish I still had the 850.
The NYT's are mental retards that can't see the writing on the roof because narative.
The NYT's are mental retards that can't see the writing on the roof because narative.
Posted by: Gmac - WTF did you think was going to happen? at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (H0l69)
276
-Construction / roofing is a job that Americans just won’t do any longer.
That's correct at illegal wages Americans will not work
-Without unions, working conditions have eroded.
BS! Without legal pay workers don't care to do a good job.
That's correct at illegal wages Americans will not work
-Without unions, working conditions have eroded.
BS! Without legal pay workers don't care to do a good job.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (qo38o)
277
You all always have a payment for insurance, taxes and maintenance. Plus if you sell the house and invest the money you will essentially live rent free from the yearly returns.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (Ryx1w)
++++
Sometimes the latter. Always the former, but the former is still a lot more cheaper without the mortgage and much more predictable than rent.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (Ryx1w)
++++
Sometimes the latter. Always the former, but the former is still a lot more cheaper without the mortgage and much more predictable than rent.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (GyQIQ)
278
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:09 PM (Ryx1w)
Rent always goes up. Seniors get break on property taxes in Texas . The taxes and insurance is far less than what I would pay for rent.
But I agree that renting might make sense for some people.
Rent always goes up. Seniors get break on property taxes in Texas . The taxes and insurance is far less than what I would pay for rent.
But I agree that renting might make sense for some people.
Posted by: Opinion fact at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (KDPiq)
279
I did a few roofs in my youth. Muy no bueno. I preferred the steel foundry and the coal mines.
Posted by: tubal at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (pDt9x)
280
I'm not sure. If i came home and found a crew tearing off my roof, i would either go ballistic and sue their asses off, or I'd laugh and offer to pay what i owe for the job anyway minus maybe a tiny discount if they wouldn't mind. Depends on the phase of the moon and what i had for dinner the night before.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (06Hmj)
281
Nood.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (ExV1e)
282
Sometime this year, I'll need to talk to my bank about making sure enough of my funds are available to possibly look into a house.
It's kind of a now-or-never thing for me, and it's very much about being a place to live and not about being an investment in my case.
I should have enough money to make it work, it's just a question of my bank (and the bank of whoever owns the house) being willing to let me make the transaction.
It's kind of a now-or-never thing for me, and it's very much about being a place to live and not about being an investment in my case.
I should have enough money to make it work, it's just a question of my bank (and the bank of whoever owns the house) being willing to let me make the transaction.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 12:13 PM (iXqHn)
283
6.8 million Wet-Juans up on the roof, 6.8 million there. ICE grabs Juan, sends him back home, 6.799999 million Juans on the roof...
Posted by: John Kerry at January 23, 2026 12:14 PM (TezPK)
284
Robert,
Naproxen (Aleve) is recommended for gout. I've been using it for years with good results You need to use a big initial dose since it has advanced. Take it with a glass of milk or a light meal.
Standard dose: 750 mg initially, then 250 mg every 8 hours until pain subsides.
(Or 500 mg twice daily)
Assuming you don't have any liver or kidney issues.
Best to check with a Big Medicine gatekeeper.
Naproxen (Aleve) is recommended for gout. I've been using it for years with good results You need to use a big initial dose since it has advanced. Take it with a glass of milk or a light meal.
Standard dose: 750 mg initially, then 250 mg every 8 hours until pain subsides.
(Or 500 mg twice daily)
Assuming you don't have any liver or kidney issues.
Best to check with a Big Medicine gatekeeper.
Posted by: pawn at January 23, 2026 12:14 PM (WXTVZ)
285
284 Naproxen (Aleve) is recommended for gout. I've been using it for years with good results You need to use a big initial dose since it has advanced. Take it with a glass of milk or a light meal.
Standard dose: 750 mg initially, then 250 mg every 8 hours until pain subsides.
(Or 500 mg twice daily)
Assuming you don't have any liver or kidney issues.
Best to check with a Big Medicine gatekeeper.
Posted by: pawn at January 23, 2026 12:14 PM (WXTVZ)
Watch out for allergies.
That stuff nearly killed my father.
Standard dose: 750 mg initially, then 250 mg every 8 hours until pain subsides.
(Or 500 mg twice daily)
Assuming you don't have any liver or kidney issues.
Best to check with a Big Medicine gatekeeper.
Posted by: pawn at January 23, 2026 12:14 PM (WXTVZ)
Watch out for allergies.
That stuff nearly killed my father.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 12:15 PM (iXqHn)
286
I would gladly oay more for American/English-speaking workers if they are trained professional tradesmen. It's very difficult to find good tradesmen that do non-hactafic work.
Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at January 23, 2026 12:15 PM (pD9mX)
287
We've owned houses (2) since 1987. I'm a little embarrassed that we're still making payments, but recognize that I did use it as an ATM for many of those years when we had tuition payments to make. Plus we did an extensive remodel in 2021.
Today I have a 2.7% mortgage but my long term rate of return on the investments has been north of 7 so I choose not to pay it off.
Today I have a 2.7% mortgage but my long term rate of return on the investments has been north of 7 so I choose not to pay it off.
Posted by: Anonymous Rogue in Kalifornistan (ARiK) at January 23, 2026 12:16 PM (QGaXH)
288
Ace double-posts.
One time stamped 12:10 PM
The other time stamped 1:10 PM
But both active.
Weird Friday is GO.
One time stamped 12:10 PM
The other time stamped 1:10 PM
But both active.
Weird Friday is GO.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at January 23, 2026 12:17 PM (O7YUW)
289
When I was growing up, the Left wanted to unionize everyone. They said that it was necessary to prevent worker exploitation.
But no leftist ever wanted to unionize illegals.
But no leftist ever wanted to unionize illegals.
Posted by: 29Victor at January 23, 2026 12:20 PM (0MjtC)
290
No - earlier than that. Bought a nice speck home - someone had lived in it before us. Built in 1999. Outside Window trim was put in improperly causing water damage, some outer walls were not insulated. The windows were not very good. I have replaced roof windows, gutters, doors. Debating on some siding insulation issues.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (GZYu7)
Even the best built house has to have those things replaced over 27 years.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:07 PM (Ryx1w)
==
Oh for sure - roof and gutters for sure - it is a sad testament to window manufacturers that having a window last 25 years takes an act of God.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:03 PM (GZYu7)
Even the best built house has to have those things replaced over 27 years.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:07 PM (Ryx1w)
==
Oh for sure - roof and gutters for sure - it is a sad testament to window manufacturers that having a window last 25 years takes an act of God.
Posted by: Black JEM at January 23, 2026 12:21 PM (GZYu7)
291
Guess we know what's coming at 1:10.
Posted by: XTC at January 23, 2026 12:21 PM (iXqHn)
292
When I retire I plan on traveling a lot. Wherever I live will just be a home base. Doesn’t need to be a house or anything fancy. A 2 bedroom apartment will suffice without any worries about taking care of things while we’re away.
Posted by: Really?? at January 23, 2026 12:24 PM (Ryx1w)
293
Illegals don't need health insurance. They just show up at the ER for free care and steal Medicaid.
Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at January 23, 2026 12:26 PM (wBaIH)
294
"Dishwasher. I was 15 or 16. Worst. Job. Ever."
I was a dishwasher/busboy combo (depending on who showed up) at 16. $1.00 per hour plus a small percent of tips.
Many, many years ago. It sure solidified my desire to do whatever it took to never have to do something like that again.
When I got a job at a construction site the next summer for $2.00 per hour installing French drains, digging trenches, sweeping out apartments, carrying pegboard, guarding the project at night, whatever was needed, etc. I thought I had died and gone to Heaven.
I was a dishwasher/busboy combo (depending on who showed up) at 16. $1.00 per hour plus a small percent of tips.
Many, many years ago. It sure solidified my desire to do whatever it took to never have to do something like that again.
When I got a job at a construction site the next summer for $2.00 per hour installing French drains, digging trenches, sweeping out apartments, carrying pegboard, guarding the project at night, whatever was needed, etc. I thought I had died and gone to Heaven.
Posted by: RM at January 23, 2026 01:15 PM (n/1Oj)
295
31 The only cases in which I think unions are justified are jobs that are inherently dangerous -- police, firefighting, coal-mining, etc. They can then play a role in enforcing safety protocols, caring for survivors when someone dies in the line of duty, etc.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (77rzZ)
There is not a police officer or firefighter anywhere in the United States that has any business whatsoever belonging to a union.
Posted by: Bulg at January 23, 2026 11:12 AM (77rzZ)
There is not a police officer or firefighter anywhere in the United States that has any business whatsoever belonging to a union.
Posted by: Cow Demon at January 23, 2026 01:15 PM (0GYGE)
296
We have absolutely NO business trashing Dems for drastic cost-cutting measures. Let us not forget who shipped almost our entire manufacturing capacity offshore so he could pursue his dream of a "service economy".
Posted by: creeper at January 23, 2026 01:23 PM (80oeU)
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