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Gun Thread: Second December Edition!
FUNdamentals OK, you win. Good marksmanship isn't the result of hard work, diligent practice and a focus on fundamentals. You've worn me down and I am now prepared to share the one weird trick that allows you to skip all the hard work and achieve instant and easy results. It's quite simple really, and frankly I am a little surprised you haven't figured it out already, so here it is. Magic Beans or Shooting Crystals That's right people. Rabbit's feet don't work. You have to source magic beans or shooting crystals and keep one or two in your pocket at the range and you're instantly a master marksman. Crazy huh? So much quicker and easier than working logically and methodically towards a goal over time and measuring progress along the way. That's what you fundamentals deniers want, right? A quick and easy fix which allows instant gratification, or am I mistaken here? Unfortunately, Magic Beans and Shooting Crystals aren't always easy to find, so you may have to do it the old fashioned way. If you find yourself in this position, here is a video on managing flinch and fixing bad habits.
M1917 Masterclass An excellent tutorial for anyone with a Smith & Wesson revolver.
$15 Gun Heck, for $15 I'll take two.
Christmas Decorations 11 days to Christmas, people. Have you decorated your house? Please tell me you aren't just throwing up a half-assed string of lights again this year.
Our Pal The Perfect Circle Piston Ring
Ax Weasel Q: Weasel, are manners important?
A: Why yes, yes they are.
Highway Patrol! This week's episode: Human Bomb! Yikes!
The Strange World of Planet X!
Well, what can I say about an old standby? There is a reason it is an old standby which I'll discuss in a moment. But first the cigar. The Romeo y Julieta was one of the original Cuban cigars, and politics being what they are, what we see (and buy) today is produced now in the Dominican Republic. It offers a blend of tobaccos that produces a medium to full-bodied, and full-flavored profile. It does this well! I often speak of cigars in thirds, and the first third lets you know you are smoking a good cigar. It gets your attention. The wrapper and binder are Nicaraguan leaf, with a filler mixture of Nicaraguan and Honduran tobaccos. The flavor is rich and robust, with earthy undertones and a smooth tobacco aftertaste. The second third mellows out into a fine aroma and smooth smoke. Towards the end, a peppery sweetness lingers after each puff, thanks to the thick wrapper. And I like this as it blends well with any worthy scotch or bourbon. But if you like wine with your cigars (I won't judge) go with a merlot, or a lighter cab if you can find one. 90 rating by the guy who rates things. I concur. Standby cigars always have room in my humidor. In this last week as the rains fell here in Western Washington and I watched the rivers rise, I didn't think it was time for new or different cigar. This was a time to pull out an old reliable and face the tempest with confidence. And so I did. At about $6-8 a pop not a wallet buster but look for sales. You can find them.Excellent, Diogenes! Thank you very much!
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New! A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo
Lucky Gunner Ammo NEW!
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
1
Posted by: Eromero at December 14, 2025 07:00 PM (LHPAg)
2
Yay! Gubs!
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:00 PM (Wnv9h)
3
Good evening everyone
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:00 PM (Ia/+0)
4
Wait
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:01 PM (Ia/+0)
5
BLAM BLAM BLAM!
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 07:01 PM (mT+6a)
6
The Others have been summoned.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:01 PM (Wnv9h)
7
Welcome gun folks.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 14, 2025 07:02 PM (CHHv1)
Posted by: The Woodpeckers at December 14, 2025 07:02 PM (Wnv9h)
9
Hello, Weasel!
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:03 PM (BCwQW)
10
10th?
Posted by: Coelacanth at December 14, 2025 07:03 PM (qYZiO)
11
I discovered the other day that a Gurkha Park Avenue 44 pairs well with hot chocolate.
Gives the drink a mocha flavor.
Gives the drink a mocha flavor.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at December 14, 2025 07:04 PM (i00+Z)
12
No range report. Maybe during some vacation time I plan to take over Christmas. The new scope on the old rifle needs to be zeroed.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:04 PM (Wnv9h)
13
Puttered with some gun stuff and a couple of inches of ice and global warming.
Thanks as always Weasel and blessings abounding for all of the GunHorde
Thanks as always Weasel and blessings abounding for all of the GunHorde
Posted by: Coelacanth at December 14, 2025 07:06 PM (qYZiO)
14
I need a suggestion for a gun related gift. My #2 son has a reproduction Charleville musket with a 46" barrel and needs a better cleaning rod than what he is using. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good one, one piece, and maybe some other cleaning accessories?
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:07 PM (vFG9F)
15
For folks in the DC area. The Nations Gun Show has been held at the Dulles Expo Center for years. That facility has been sold. The gun show is moving to the Manassas Mall. First show is scheduled for January 2, 3, and 4.
Just FYI.
PS: I believe Ikea bought the Dulles Expo Center.
Just FYI.
PS: I believe Ikea bought the Dulles Expo Center.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 07:08 PM (yTvNw)
16
No range report. Maybe during some vacation time I plan to take over Christmas. The new scope on the old rifle needs to be zeroed.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:04 PM (Wnv9h)
Come on up!
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:04 PM (Wnv9h)
Come on up!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 07:08 PM (4dsHO)
17
I've also started a cigar journal, so I have some chance of remembering the ones I enjoyed.
There's a cigar lounge in town that has a really nice atmosphere and doesn't mind a civilized lady (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) stopping on occasionally for a stick.
Stepdad and I brainstormed a design for a cigar ashtray, and might see about putting it together over Christmas, in between out other projects. It'll involve welding.
There's a cigar lounge in town that has a really nice atmosphere and doesn't mind a civilized lady (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) stopping on occasionally for a stick.
Stepdad and I brainstormed a design for a cigar ashtray, and might see about putting it together over Christmas, in between out other projects. It'll involve welding.
Posted by: FeatherBlade at December 14, 2025 07:09 PM (i00+Z)
18
In that $15 gun pic everyone is pointing their weapon at the other guy's head.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 14, 2025 07:09 PM (pkeXY)
19
I'll have to look at the videos later. I have javascript turned off for comments as that sometimes generates errors from whatever adware that Ace hires out to.
That being said, AGI always has decent videos and I have quite a few on dvd for my firearms. I opened Ace's website in one of my other browsers and it started playing ok.
Do remember one thing, Both Colt and S&W made 1917 models and they are drastically different inside. What AGI video covers is only the S&W. The Colt was a militarized version of its New Service revolver.
The S&W 1917 is a simplified version of its grand Triple Lock model as the Brits and other militaries asked for a firearm suitable for trenches so the shrouded ejector and the third lock went.
That being said, AGI always has decent videos and I have quite a few on dvd for my firearms. I opened Ace's website in one of my other browsers and it started playing ok.
Do remember one thing, Both Colt and S&W made 1917 models and they are drastically different inside. What AGI video covers is only the S&W. The Colt was a militarized version of its New Service revolver.
The S&W 1917 is a simplified version of its grand Triple Lock model as the Brits and other militaries asked for a firearm suitable for trenches so the shrouded ejector and the third lock went.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:10 PM (WDjG6)
20
fd I had to get 2 shotgun cleaning rods that connect for my Brown Bess. 1 rod isn't long enough.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:11 PM (Ia/+0)
21
Any thoughts about Gun Jesus' negative review of the Army's selection of the M7 as its new standard infantry rifle? As I understand it, the Army is repeating the same mistake it made with the M14 rifle in that it's trying to have one platform become a "do it all" individual weapon in that it's supposed to do CQB, accurate long range fire out to 800m, suppressed, and do it in a short barreled format for ease of handing in vehicles. Trying to have it excel in everything will only increase the cost and ensure it'll fail in something critical (ammo capacity, rounds carried, etc.). The most recent serious infantry combat going on right now (Ukraine, Gaza/Middle East) tells me that 5.56mm NATO and intermediate cartridges are far from finished as a serious infantry small arm chambering.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:11 PM (BCwQW)
22
Good evening gubthreaders and all the ships at sea!
Hats off to you sailor types for playing a good game of football a little bit better than the good guys.
Hats off to you sailor types for playing a good game of football a little bit better than the good guys.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 07:12 PM (RoO7G)
23
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 07:08 PM (yTvNw)
You are correct. Manassas Mall is only for January, though, according to one of the veteran exhibitors I talk to.
You are correct. Manassas Mall is only for January, though, according to one of the veteran exhibitors I talk to.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:13 PM (BCwQW)
24
I did zero Gub things this week, other than presents. Got DILIT some high vis sights for her G44.
And to get “free shipping” from Midway, I may have added a stainless steel guide rod and spring for my G 21.
Time to upgrade that baby. I’m really taking a shine to .45 AC lately.
And to get “free shipping” from Midway, I may have added a stainless steel guide rod and spring for my G 21.
Time to upgrade that baby. I’m really taking a shine to .45 AC lately.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 07:14 PM (23/y9)
25
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:13 PM (BCwQW)
-----
I remember going to a movie at Manassas Mall as a teenager and the ticket was $4.
-----
I remember going to a movie at Manassas Mall as a teenager and the ticket was $4.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:14 PM (vt7xw)
26
14 I need a suggestion for a gun related gift. My #2 son has a reproduction Charleville musket with a 46" barrel and needs a better cleaning rod than what he is using. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good one, one piece, and maybe some other cleaning accessories?
Posted by: fd
=====
Trackoftheworld dot com Search for ramrods.
They have nice stuff there for smokepoles.
Posted by: fd
=====
Trackoftheworld dot com Search for ramrods.
They have nice stuff there for smokepoles.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:15 PM (WDjG6)
27
Good evening Horde. Thanks Weasel!
Posted by: TRex - arctic dino at December 14, 2025 07:16 PM (IQ6Gq)
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:16 PM (WDjG6)
29
Finally this past week bought my childhood dream, a cap and ball revolver
A Armi San Marco reproduction of a 1860 Colt in 44 cal.
from Dixon's Muzzleoading shop in Kempton PA. I also got the bullet mold he said in .457 and yesterday cast 50 bullets but not so sure they will fit. A search for the answer is many do use the bigger bullets but it's not easy to seat them it looks.
A Armi San Marco reproduction of a 1860 Colt in 44 cal.
from Dixon's Muzzleoading shop in Kempton PA. I also got the bullet mold he said in .457 and yesterday cast 50 bullets but not so sure they will fit. A search for the answer is many do use the bigger bullets but it's not easy to seat them it looks.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:17 PM (Ia/+0)
30
Evening all.
Happy Hannukah
No range export but I have spent the better part of the day on X talking about the importance of guns and the second amendment. I have also already made a New Year's resolution to get a CC license.
Seeems like a good idea.
Happy Hannukah
No range export but I have spent the better part of the day on X talking about the importance of guns and the second amendment. I have also already made a New Year's resolution to get a CC license.
Seeems like a good idea.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:17 PM (t/2Uw)
31
As I understand it, the Army is repeating the same mistake it made with the M14 rifle in that it's trying to have one platform become a "do it all" individual weapon...
"One size fits all" seems to be the holy grail of military procurement in every branch. M14, F35, LCS, probably other things as well. It never works as well as they think it's going to.
"One size fits all" seems to be the holy grail of military procurement in every branch. M14, F35, LCS, probably other things as well. It never works as well as they think it's going to.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 07:18 PM (3nLb4)
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 07:18 PM (XuXeR)
33
I improvised a truck holster for the new truck. Some sticky Velcro and one of those soft holsters designed for the inside door of a gun safe. Hope to set it up by my knee on the drivers side. Will let you know when I try it out.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:19 PM (vt7xw)
34
Guns!
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:19 PM (xcxpd)
35
Shooters WHO flinch...
Oh well
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 07:18 PM
Thank you for catching one of my grammar pet peeves.
Oh well
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 07:18 PM
Thank you for catching one of my grammar pet peeves.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 07:19 PM (Wnv9h)
36
19 Do remember one thing, Both Colt and S&W made 1917 models and they are drastically different inside. - whig
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (2L+MU)
37
New truck? Pray tell what did you do?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (sDNVV)
38
If you've no place to shoot on private property, whether yours or a friend's, you are paying to go to a range.
My situation in SW FL, where I spend six months each winter and spring, is an indoor one that has pistol only for $25 an hour, and an outdoor one that's $25 per DAY, with a $35 up front fee at the beginning. Either way it's about the cost of 100 rounds of 9mm. Before you start to shoot.
Up in far NW Chicagoland where we spend part of our up north time, I can go to a place that's under two miles and two traffic lights away, and shoot indoors for $10 each 30 minutes, and it has a handgun side and a rifle side.
The rest of the up north time is spent in the Adirondack wilderness where I can shoot on the property, or on any parts of the 400,000 or more wild mountain state-owned wilderness adjacent.
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
My situation in SW FL, where I spend six months each winter and spring, is an indoor one that has pistol only for $25 an hour, and an outdoor one that's $25 per DAY, with a $35 up front fee at the beginning. Either way it's about the cost of 100 rounds of 9mm. Before you start to shoot.
Up in far NW Chicagoland where we spend part of our up north time, I can go to a place that's under two miles and two traffic lights away, and shoot indoors for $10 each 30 minutes, and it has a handgun side and a rifle side.
The rest of the up north time is spent in the Adirondack wilderness where I can shoot on the property, or on any parts of the 400,000 or more wild mountain state-owned wilderness adjacent.
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
Posted by: M. Gaga at December 14, 2025 07:21 PM (KiBMU)
39
New truck? Pray tell what did you do?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (sDNVV)
-----
Old F-150 is kaput so I replaced it (w another f-150). Trying to keep up with Weasel Buddy Geoff!
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (sDNVV)
-----
Old F-150 is kaput so I replaced it (w another f-150). Trying to keep up with Weasel Buddy Geoff!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:22 PM (vt7xw)
40
21 Any thoughts about Gun Jesus' negative review of the Army's selection of the M7 as its new standard infantry rifle?
Army is running into physics and coming up with the wrong answers. Simply put, you are already at crazy high pressures with the M7 but they are thinking about getting up to 100k. Unless you line your barrels with Stellite, your barrels won't last worth a damn, likewise other components.
And I blame Sig engineers for not telling the Army straight up, you can't have a very short barrel, very high pressure, and long term reliability and durability. M4 should have taught the Army that as those carbines really accelerated wear on bolts, were harsher recoiling, etc. than the older long rifles.
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Army is running into physics and coming up with the wrong answers. Simply put, you are already at crazy high pressures with the M7 but they are thinking about getting up to 100k. Unless you line your barrels with Stellite, your barrels won't last worth a damn, likewise other components.
And I blame Sig engineers for not telling the Army straight up, you can't have a very short barrel, very high pressure, and long term reliability and durability. M4 should have taught the Army that as those carbines really accelerated wear on bolts, were harsher recoiling, etc. than the older long rifles.
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM (WDjG6)
41
Quick range report and then off to read the content:
Did accuracy drills with Bubba Fly yesterday. Bubba Fly is a Gen 4 GLock 19 that bubba (the previous owner) decided to modify with a heat gun and a sodering iron, at a guess. The grips are nicely stippled in a way that might give some people the hives...but it works. Nice double undercut in the trigger guard so it doesn't cause 'Glock Knuckle' on me. It also has a SIG Romeo Zero (I think) mounted. A good, very good, used pistol.
Accuracy was sufficent. Not as good as my CZ P07 but mostly in the 10 ring. I'm sure the few fliers were due to me not getting my trigger press right.
A few extra rounds after that with my Taurus TX-22. Which worked fine, no jams or nothing. Federal Automatch.
I noticed the Glock shot a bit high with Fioccia 115gr JHPs. It was probably zeroed for 124 grn loads.
Did accuracy drills with Bubba Fly yesterday. Bubba Fly is a Gen 4 GLock 19 that bubba (the previous owner) decided to modify with a heat gun and a sodering iron, at a guess. The grips are nicely stippled in a way that might give some people the hives...but it works. Nice double undercut in the trigger guard so it doesn't cause 'Glock Knuckle' on me. It also has a SIG Romeo Zero (I think) mounted. A good, very good, used pistol.
Accuracy was sufficent. Not as good as my CZ P07 but mostly in the 10 ring. I'm sure the few fliers were due to me not getting my trigger press right.
A few extra rounds after that with my Taurus TX-22. Which worked fine, no jams or nothing. Federal Automatch.
I noticed the Glock shot a bit high with Fioccia 115gr JHPs. It was probably zeroed for 124 grn loads.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:25 PM (xcxpd)
42
Do remember one thing, Both Colt and S&W made 1917 models and they are drastically different inside. - whig
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (2L+MU)
Paco, I recommend watching C&Rsenal's videos about the M1917 (Colt) and M1917 (S&W) revolvers to understand the differences between the two. Each episode features an animated section that illustrates the internal workings of each revolver and how it all functions. Your host Othais narrates it all.
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (2L+MU)
Paco, I recommend watching C&Rsenal's videos about the M1917 (Colt) and M1917 (S&W) revolvers to understand the differences between the two. Each episode features an animated section that illustrates the internal workings of each revolver and how it all functions. Your host Othais narrates it all.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:25 PM (BCwQW)
43
Our range in VA is $35/mo, no lane fees. Guests can shoot with us for $15. Can spen as much time as e want unless it is holiday, the limited to 2 hours. There is a comfy lounge if we have to,wait to get lanes together..
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:25 PM (t/2Uw)
44
14 ... "I need a suggestion for a gun related gift. My #2 son has a reproduction Charleville musket with a 46" barrel and needs a better cleaning rod than what he is using. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good one, one piece, and maybe some other cleaning accessories?"
f'd,
Does he care about an authentic look or just something that works? (I assume the musket came with a ramrod.) If authenticity doesn't matter, check out Buffalo Arms. They offer a 48" cleaning rod made from some polymer with a 10/32 female ferrule in place. The rod is unbreakable and can flex.
Accessories: a tow worm that screws onto the cleaning rod. Wrap tow (the chaff from processing flax) as thickly as needed to scrub the barrel. Tow is the traditional way to clean a smoothbore and yes, it still works great.
Make sure he has a nipple pick to clear the flash hole from the pan to the chamber. Track of the Wolf will have them or it can be made from guitar wire strings.
continued ...
f'd,
Does he care about an authentic look or just something that works? (I assume the musket came with a ramrod.) If authenticity doesn't matter, check out Buffalo Arms. They offer a 48" cleaning rod made from some polymer with a 10/32 female ferrule in place. The rod is unbreakable and can flex.
Accessories: a tow worm that screws onto the cleaning rod. Wrap tow (the chaff from processing flax) as thickly as needed to scrub the barrel. Tow is the traditional way to clean a smoothbore and yes, it still works great.
Make sure he has a nipple pick to clear the flash hole from the pan to the chamber. Track of the Wolf will have them or it can be made from guitar wire strings.
continued ...
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 07:29 PM (yTvNw)
45
MAE, that was interesting comment about changing grain weight on the Glock with the dot. I often switch between Fiocci 115 gr and Blazer 124 gr. Didn't think it would affect the dot.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
46
Range day: took my Walther P99 out and put about 50 rounds through it at typical defensive distances. Love the ergonomics of this gun.
Something weird happened lately, however. A couple of weeks ago, when I took the P99 out of the locker to look at it, I noticed a small hole in the backstrap. I pushed on it gently, and the whole backstrap crumbled. The gun is an LEO trade-in, and the grips always looked to be in good shape; however, research on the web indicated that some other people have had this trouble, too. Fortunately, I also have another P99, which I had bought new, and which had extra backstraps. The gun has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment, so I'm a little baffled.
Something weird happened lately, however. A couple of weeks ago, when I took the P99 out of the locker to look at it, I noticed a small hole in the backstrap. I pushed on it gently, and the whole backstrap crumbled. The gun is an LEO trade-in, and the grips always looked to be in good shape; however, research on the web indicated that some other people have had this trouble, too. Fortunately, I also have another P99, which I had bought new, and which had extra backstraps. The gun has always been kept in a climate-controlled environment, so I'm a little baffled.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (2L+MU)
47
17 degrees and wind gusting to probably 20 mph, but nice and toasty in the hut!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (vt7xw)
48
I went to the range Friday armed with an AR15, a super safety, and perhaps most importantly - the knowlege of how to use the super safety!
First the AR: a Franken-AR pistol, PSA lower with a 5.56 10.5 barrel upper that a guy I used to work with gave me. Holographic sight on top. It is, depending on how you look at it, the perfect platform for this fast semi-auto firing or the worst.
The super safety I bought at a gun show and its metal. Came with a modified trigger that works with the super safety. It did not work as it came took a little dremeling to perfect it.
And the knowledge - it is a cross bolt safety that replaces the safety lever in an AR. All the way left is safe. All the way right is semi. There is a center position which is super safe.
Oh my! I did not do more than 3 rounds in a magazine but wow it was fast. And fun! If I had been at an out door range I would be all out of 5.56.
Accuracy though...first round goes where you point it. After that not so much. And I was just shooting 3 rounds at a time.
First the AR: a Franken-AR pistol, PSA lower with a 5.56 10.5 barrel upper that a guy I used to work with gave me. Holographic sight on top. It is, depending on how you look at it, the perfect platform for this fast semi-auto firing or the worst.
The super safety I bought at a gun show and its metal. Came with a modified trigger that works with the super safety. It did not work as it came took a little dremeling to perfect it.
And the knowledge - it is a cross bolt safety that replaces the safety lever in an AR. All the way left is safe. All the way right is semi. There is a center position which is super safe.
Oh my! I did not do more than 3 rounds in a magazine but wow it was fast. And fun! If I had been at an out door range I would be all out of 5.56.
Accuracy though...first round goes where you point it. After that not so much. And I was just shooting 3 rounds at a time.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (RoO7G)
49
42 Do remember one thing, Both Colt and S&W made 1917 models and they are drastically different inside. - whig
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (2L+MU)
Paco, I recommend watching C&Rsenal's videos about the M1917 (Colt) and M1917 (S&W) revolvers to understand the differences between the two. Each episode features an animated section that illustrates the internal workings of each revolver and how it all functions. Your host Othais narrates it all.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:25 PM (BCwQW)
Good episodes but...if you get a choice, buy the Smith and Wesson. Slightly better controls and quality.
Also, want.
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:20 PM (2L+MU)
Paco, I recommend watching C&Rsenal's videos about the M1917 (Colt) and M1917 (S&W) revolvers to understand the differences between the two. Each episode features an animated section that illustrates the internal workings of each revolver and how it all functions. Your host Othais narrates it all.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:25 PM (BCwQW)
Good episodes but...if you get a choice, buy the Smith and Wesson. Slightly better controls and quality.
Also, want.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:31 PM (xcxpd)
50
Now, there's something (among many things) I didn't know. Are the differences mainly related to cylinder lock-up, or leaf springs vs coil or what, exactly?
Posted by: Paco
======
Colt was famous for its bank vault lockup using its very old circa 1890's locking action which also incidentally was fine until you had timing issues. Basically Swiss watch where even messing up a slight bevel on something like the cylinder bolt could cause issues. The bank vault lockup was caused by hand (also called pawl) which positively locks the cylinder at the very time of firing. That is also what doing stupid things with Colts can get buggered up along with timing on them.
If you do fire a nib old timey Colt (which why would you), they often had the lockup just a tad late so it would wear into perfection.
And yes, Colts use V springs which is why they tend to stack a bit in double action (the v binds at the bottom of the valley in DA) but beautiful single action pull.
Posted by: Paco
======
Colt was famous for its bank vault lockup using its very old circa 1890's locking action which also incidentally was fine until you had timing issues. Basically Swiss watch where even messing up a slight bevel on something like the cylinder bolt could cause issues. The bank vault lockup was caused by hand (also called pawl) which positively locks the cylinder at the very time of firing. That is also what doing stupid things with Colts can get buggered up along with timing on them.
If you do fire a nib old timey Colt (which why would you), they often had the lockup just a tad late so it would wear into perfection.
And yes, Colts use V springs which is why they tend to stack a bit in double action (the v binds at the bottom of the valley in DA) but beautiful single action pull.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:31 PM (WDjG6)
51
Paco, I recommend watching C&Rsenal's videos about the M1917 (Colt) and M1917 (S&W) revolvers to understand the differences between the two. Each episode features an animated section that illustrates the internal workings of each revolver and how it all functions. Your host Othais narrates it all. Ed L
Thanks, Ed. Will do
Thanks, Ed. Will do
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (2L+MU)
52
Old F-150 is kaput so I replaced it (w another f-150). Trying to keep up with Weasel Buddy Geoff!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:22 PM
I don't think you can possibly keep up with Geoff's truck.
I believe he has the Ford "Louis the XIV" edition of the F-150.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:22 PM
I don't think you can possibly keep up with Geoff's truck.
I believe he has the Ford "Louis the XIV" edition of the F-150.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (HlyYF)
53
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
-----
The effect is greater with rifles at longer distance but any time you change ammo you should consider re-zeroing.
-----
The effect is greater with rifles at longer distance but any time you change ammo you should consider re-zeroing.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (vt7xw)
54
Thanks, whig. Very comprehensive summary.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (2L+MU)
55
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM (WDjG6)
YouTuber Banana Ballistics claims he got 5,100 FPS out of a 17 grain brass bullet in a necked down 5.56mm NATO case. The ballistics gel test had that bullet tumble through over a foot of get. See the link in the Battleswarm blog. Getting hit by a 17 grain projectile moving at 4,000+ FPS can't be good for you even if you have armor on. I've also seen test prototypes of fin stabilized discarding sabots being fired in 12 gauge cartridges. That would be interesting if we went back to smoothbores in order to use discarding sabot tech.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM (WDjG6)
YouTuber Banana Ballistics claims he got 5,100 FPS out of a 17 grain brass bullet in a necked down 5.56mm NATO case. The ballistics gel test had that bullet tumble through over a foot of get. See the link in the Battleswarm blog. Getting hit by a 17 grain projectile moving at 4,000+ FPS can't be good for you even if you have armor on. I've also seen test prototypes of fin stabilized discarding sabots being fired in 12 gauge cartridges. That would be interesting if we went back to smoothbores in order to use discarding sabot tech.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:33 PM (BCwQW)
56
West Coast Armory is $300 a year. Unlimited visits, no time restrictions, $20 guest fee. We’ve never had to wait for our own lanes.
We can shoot pistols or rifles (nothing crazy) up to 25 yards. Indoors, clean bathrooms. Staff recognizes us so most of the time they just wave us through.
We can shoot pistols or rifles (nothing crazy) up to 25 yards. Indoors, clean bathrooms. Staff recognizes us so most of the time they just wave us through.
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 07:33 PM (mT+6a)
57
45 MAE, that was interesting comment about changing grain weight on the Glock with the dot. I often switch between Fiocci 115 gr and Blazer 124 gr. Didn't think it would affect the dot.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
For me, it made a shift in point of impact...rounds went a bit high. Brands and grain weight all make a difference. Oddly, my 124 JHP rounds and my 147 grn JHP seem to hit about the same in my PSA Micro Dagger. Which is cool.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
For me, it made a shift in point of impact...rounds went a bit high. Brands and grain weight all make a difference. Oddly, my 124 JHP rounds and my 147 grn JHP seem to hit about the same in my PSA Micro Dagger. Which is cool.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:33 PM (xcxpd)
58
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
Posted by: M. Gaga at December 14, 2025 07:21 PM (KiBMU)
I've got 4 people on a family plan for $65/month indoor range we can all shoot there as often as we'd like.
Posted by: M. Gaga at December 14, 2025 07:21 PM (KiBMU)
I've got 4 people on a family plan for $65/month indoor range we can all shoot there as often as we'd like.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 07:33 PM (RoO7G)
59
I don't think you can possibly keep up with Geoff's truck.
I believe he has the Ford "Louis the XIV" edition of the F-150.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (HlyYF)
----
I'm not even allowed inside Geoff's truck!
I believe he has the Ford "Louis the XIV" edition of the F-150.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM (HlyYF)
----
I'm not even allowed inside Geoff's truck!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:34 PM (vt7xw)
60
continued from comment 44 ...
Clean the barrel with plain water. Maybe add a few drops of dish soap. That's all that is needed. Make sure the barrel is dry then wipe down the bore with a tiny amount of gun oil to prevent rust. I use Rem Oil available on Amazon or any outdoor store like Cabela's/Bass Pro Shops.
I use 100 percent cotton or flannel patches for cleaning my BP guns.
Clean the barrel with plain water. Maybe add a few drops of dish soap. That's all that is needed. Make sure the barrel is dry then wipe down the bore with a tiny amount of gun oil to prevent rust. I use Rem Oil available on Amazon or any outdoor store like Cabela's/Bass Pro Shops.
I use 100 percent cotton or flannel patches for cleaning my BP guns.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 07:34 PM (yTvNw)
61
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM
If I had that task before me, I would prefer that the army issued me my own personal A-10 Warthog.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM
If I had that task before me, I would prefer that the army issued me my own personal A-10 Warthog.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (HlyYF)
62
"trackofthewolf dot com.""
This looks good:
"Ramrod, 7/16" synthetic Delrin almost unbreakable rod, over 50" length, brass tips, 10-32 and 8-32 threads on opposite ends Made in the U.S.A."
This looks good:
"Ramrod, 7/16" synthetic Delrin almost unbreakable rod, over 50" length, brass tips, 10-32 and 8-32 threads on opposite ends Made in the U.S.A."
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (vFG9F)
63
40 21 Any thoughts about Gun Jesus' negative review of the Army's selection of the M7 as its new standard infantry rifle?
Army is running into physics and coming up with the wrong answers. Simply put, you are already at crazy high pressures with the M7 but they are thinking about getting up to 100k. Unless you line your barrels with Stellite, your barrels won't last worth a damn, likewise other components.
And I blame Sig engineers for not telling the Army straight up, you can't have a very short barrel, very high pressure, and long term reliability and durability. M4 should have taught the Army that as those carbines really accelerated wear on bolts, were harsher recoiling, etc. than the older long rifles.
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM (WDjG6)
Ian is correct. You can't do everything the M7 is designed to do. Barrel life is abyssmal and muzzle blast is prohibitive. Super bullet designs with existing hardware (AR 10 or AR 15) would be better, as you say. But nobody wants to be mean enough to design APHE rounds
Army is running into physics and coming up with the wrong answers. Simply put, you are already at crazy high pressures with the M7 but they are thinking about getting up to 100k. Unless you line your barrels with Stellite, your barrels won't last worth a damn, likewise other components.
And I blame Sig engineers for not telling the Army straight up, you can't have a very short barrel, very high pressure, and long term reliability and durability. M4 should have taught the Army that as those carbines really accelerated wear on bolts, were harsher recoiling, etc. than the older long rifles.
So instead, go for higher tech bullets if you gotta pierce armored vests up to 500 yards. High pressure and short barrels are simply not the way to do it.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:23 PM (WDjG6)
Ian is correct. You can't do everything the M7 is designed to do. Barrel life is abyssmal and muzzle blast is prohibitive. Super bullet designs with existing hardware (AR 10 or AR 15) would be better, as you say. But nobody wants to be mean enough to design APHE rounds
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:36 PM (xcxpd)
64
Paco, Walther still has replacement backstraps available for the P99. But with the P99 now out of production, who knows how long Walther will still make spares?
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:36 PM (BCwQW)
65
Smiths are far easier to work with btw, and used a long action from the 1890's until the 1940's after WWII (Victory model mishap). The lockup is a bit looser than a Colt and the long action (aka speed hammer) was dropped with the hammer stud a bit higher on the frame to get quicker hammer time. When a hammer block was added to the locking mechanism, that required respositing the hammer and thus changing the trigger pull slightly .
The Smith mainspring looks very different than the old V mainspring of a Colt.
The Smith mainspring looks very different than the old V mainspring of a Colt.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (WDjG6)
66
>>And I blame Sig engineers for not telling the Army straight up, you can't have a very short barrel, very high pressure, and long term reliability and durability. ”
Army got exactly what was in the spec. That is always the way it works. The idea all along was to field the weapon they asked for, then make improvements based on soldier feedback- and that’s already been done based on feedback from Ranger Battalion, and some first line airborne units. Overall the rifle is a solid platform and the improvements make it even better and more versatile.
Never trust someone who takes on the name of our Savior.
Army got exactly what was in the spec. That is always the way it works. The idea all along was to field the weapon they asked for, then make improvements based on soldier feedback- and that’s already been done based on feedback from Ranger Battalion, and some first line airborne units. Overall the rifle is a solid platform and the improvements make it even better and more versatile.
Never trust someone who takes on the name of our Savior.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (E/qck)
67
I just remembered. So I'm here.
Weasel, in my browser, that $15 pistol" video has another one from the same channel, about the "$24 pistol that outlived...". I'll watch it later to see if it sillifies the $15 one, or vice versa.
Still no range time. (:
Weasel, in my browser, that $15 pistol" video has another one from the same channel, about the "$24 pistol that outlived...". I'll watch it later to see if it sillifies the $15 one, or vice versa.
Still no range time. (:
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (dznca)
68
I've been shooting at West Coast Armory so long (decades at this point) that the idea of going somewhere where I'd have to pay by the hour seems weird.
I can see it. And I mostly am in and out in an hour with 150 or 200 rounds. But still...odd feeling.
WA is no longer a gun friendly state but it used to be and that legacy still lingers in places.
I can see it. And I mostly am in and out in an hour with 150 or 200 rounds. But still...odd feeling.
WA is no longer a gun friendly state but it used to be and that legacy still lingers in places.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:38 PM (xcxpd)
69
Never trust someone who takes on the name of our Savior.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (E/qck)
Serious Marcus? Seriously?
That's what people CALL Ian McCallum. Not what he calls himself. You ought to know that.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (E/qck)
Serious Marcus? Seriously?
That's what people CALL Ian McCallum. Not what he calls himself. You ought to know that.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:39 PM (xcxpd)
70
Pop was a heck of a pistol shot. He was 2nd Amy, 45 cal slow fire champion one year. With a service pistol.
Posted by: javems at December 14, 2025 07:39 PM (8I4hW)
71
50 If you do fire a nib old timey Colt (which why would you), they often had the lockup just a tad late so it would wear into perfection. - whig
The oldest Colt double-action I have is a nice, but garden variety, Police Positive manufactured in 1926 (chambered in Colt .38 New Police). Very tight lock-up.
Pretty interesting about making a gun so it would "wear into perfection"!
The oldest Colt double-action I have is a nice, but garden variety, Police Positive manufactured in 1926 (chambered in Colt .38 New Police). Very tight lock-up.
Pretty interesting about making a gun so it would "wear into perfection"!
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:40 PM (2L+MU)
72
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
There is a nearby 25 yard indoor range run by the state parks department that is $20/hr. I am mulling whether to get the $225/yr membership for a rifle range that goes to 600 yards but is an hour and half drive. I'm just not sure I'll be able to use it enough to be worth it.
There is a nearby 25 yard indoor range run by the state parks department that is $20/hr. I am mulling whether to get the $225/yr membership for a rifle range that goes to 600 yards but is an hour and half drive. I'm just not sure I'll be able to use it enough to be worth it.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 07:40 PM (3nLb4)
73
"Does he care about an authentic look or just something that works? (I assume the musket came with a ramrod.) If authenticity doesn't matter, check out Buffalo Arms. "
He just needs good one piece rod. I'll check those out, and the tow worm.
Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I just need to give him a gift certificate for Track of the Wolf.
He just needs good one piece rod. I'll check those out, and the tow worm.
Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I just need to give him a gift certificate for Track of the Wolf.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (vFG9F)
74
I believe he has the Ford "Louis the XIV" edition of the F-150.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM
----
I'm not even allowed inside Geoff's truck!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:34 PM
I was allowed in with soggy ammo boxes and muddy shoes during a brief downpour.
Apparently we may have to change his moniker to "PI Buddy Geoff"!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:32 PM
----
I'm not even allowed inside Geoff's truck!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:34 PM
I was allowed in with soggy ammo boxes and muddy shoes during a brief downpour.
Apparently we may have to change his moniker to "PI Buddy Geoff"!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (HlyYF)
75
Any thoughts about Gun Jesus' negative review of the Army's selection of the M7 as its new standard infantry rifle?
The Army could have had a decent Designated Marksman Rifle, issued to just one man per squad. Instead, they are going to waste a lot of time and money on trying to make the M7 the standard rifle.
What the Army really needs is caseless or plastic rounds, but the technology for successfully fielding them remains stubbornly out of reach.
The Army could have had a decent Designated Marksman Rifle, issued to just one man per squad. Instead, they are going to waste a lot of time and money on trying to make the M7 the standard rifle.
What the Army really needs is caseless or plastic rounds, but the technology for successfully fielding them remains stubbornly out of reach.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (4mmkh)
76
Apparently we may have to change his moniker to "PI Buddy Geoff"!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (HlyYF)
---
Well that's because you guys are twins!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (HlyYF)
---
Well that's because you guys are twins!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (vt7xw)
77
Been wanting to make a over the shoulder cartridge pouch for my Brown Bess, have the leather just haven't done it. But also at Dixons saw a fairly cheap one so got it. Now I see a pattern maybe can improve it. Can't hurt but at least now have one.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM (Ia/+0)
78
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:11 PM (BCwQW)
I would think 5.56 is a better choice than something over-powered for killing drones. Might be even better calibers, but I don't think the new 6.7 would be one.
I would think 5.56 is a better choice than something over-powered for killing drones. Might be even better calibers, but I don't think the new 6.7 would be one.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM (dznca)
79
The rest of the up north time is spent in the Adirondack wilderness where I can shoot on the property, or on any parts of the 400,000 or more wild mountain state-owned wilderness adjacent.
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
Posted by: M. Gaga at December 14, 2025 07:21 PM (KiBMU)
Here at home in Alberta, I can shoot .22, or shotgun on my own land, and nobody gives a damn about it.
When I am in AZ, I can either go out into the desert in one of several areas informally (and heavily) used as shooting ranges, or go as a guest to the range on Usery Pass road. For a small fee.
What are you paying to shoot, and at what frequency?
Posted by: M. Gaga at December 14, 2025 07:21 PM (KiBMU)
Here at home in Alberta, I can shoot .22, or shotgun on my own land, and nobody gives a damn about it.
When I am in AZ, I can either go out into the desert in one of several areas informally (and heavily) used as shooting ranges, or go as a guest to the range on Usery Pass road. For a small fee.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM (npFr7)
80
Hola, Hall!
Posted by: Bulg at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM (77rzZ)
81
64 Paco, Walther still has replacement backstraps available for the P99. But with the P99 now out of production, who knows how long Walther will still make spares? - Ed L
Thanks again, Ed. I'll look around and see what I can find. Would be a good idea to pick up one or two backstraps just to be on the safe side.
Thanks again, Ed. I'll look around and see what I can find. Would be a good idea to pick up one or two backstraps just to be on the safe side.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM (2L+MU)
82
> Serious Marcus? Seriously?
Yes. Seriously. I don’t care for anyone taking that on. Just my opinion, which I believe I’m still entitled to.
Yes. Seriously. I don’t care for anyone taking that on. Just my opinion, which I believe I’m still entitled to.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 14, 2025 07:43 PM (E/qck)
83
I bought WeaselAcres so I'd have my very own range!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:43 PM (vt7xw)
84
Well that's because you guys are twins!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM
We must only be fraternal twins.
Apparently, I missed out on the "crack shot" gene!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM
We must only be fraternal twins.
Apparently, I missed out on the "crack shot" gene!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:45 PM (HlyYF)
85
I tend to shoot low left a lot but the last outing I was right on target. Now trying to remembrance which ammo I used. I really need to keep a notebook so I know which ammo is the best fit. I also use Syntechwhich I think is 130 grain. The only one I know for sure is that the Kimber 1911 likes the Fiocci 115 gr.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:45 PM (t/2Uw)
86
Super bullet designs with existing hardware (AR 10 or AR 15) would be better, as you say. But nobody wants to be mean enough to design APHE rounds
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:36 PM (xcxpd)
The M855A1 (5.56mm NATO) and M80A1 (7.62mm NATO) are the leading edge for bullet tech at the moment. Both rounds use a steel tip in front of a copper slug for increased penetration power. However, they're meant to go through cover/concealment (car doors, interior walls, etc.). They aren't designed to go through Level 4 armor (IBA), though. The big downside for both is the increased pressure and resulting wear on bolts and barrels. But if Uncle is footing the bill on wholesale quantities of MILSPEC bolts and barrels, he can afford to shrug off the costs and replace those components more often.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, buy ammo, food, water at December 14, 2025 07:36 PM (xcxpd)
The M855A1 (5.56mm NATO) and M80A1 (7.62mm NATO) are the leading edge for bullet tech at the moment. Both rounds use a steel tip in front of a copper slug for increased penetration power. However, they're meant to go through cover/concealment (car doors, interior walls, etc.). They aren't designed to go through Level 4 armor (IBA), though. The big downside for both is the increased pressure and resulting wear on bolts and barrels. But if Uncle is footing the bill on wholesale quantities of MILSPEC bolts and barrels, he can afford to shrug off the costs and replace those components more often.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM (BCwQW)
87
Howdy!
Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM (sAmhv)
88
I hate to do this, but my range:
Fee table
Member Spouse
Base Membership $125 +$25
Indoor Range +$50 +$25
Long Range +$175 +$50
Base gets you 25-300 yards, plus shotgun.
Long range gets you out to 1100.
Fee table
Member Spouse
Base Membership $125 +$25
Indoor Range +$50 +$25
Long Range +$175 +$50
Base gets you 25-300 yards, plus shotgun.
Long range gets you out to 1100.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM (VWFmc)
89
83 I bought WeaselAcres so I'd have my very own range!
Posted by: Weasel
Wait. I thought it was an organic tree farm!
Posted by: Weasel
Wait. I thought it was an organic tree farm!
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM (mT+6a)
90
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:45 PM (HlyYF)
---
You and me both. He makes everything look easy.
---
You and me both. He makes everything look easy.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:47 PM (vt7xw)
91
By the way, Army went to the soldiers and asked them exactly what they wanted. Then that was built into the spec. So was the HSIA once it was fielded. So the current improvements came through that process.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 14, 2025 07:47 PM (E/qck)
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:48 PM (vt7xw)
93
This looks good:
"Ramrod, 7/16" synthetic Delrin almost unbreakable rod, over 50" length, brass tips, 10-32 and 8-32 threads on opposite ends Made in the U.S.A."
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (vFG9F)
I wonder if you could make one from a section of carbon fibre fishing rod or golf club shaft? Or maybe a ski pole?
"Ramrod, 7/16" synthetic Delrin almost unbreakable rod, over 50" length, brass tips, 10-32 and 8-32 threads on opposite ends Made in the U.S.A."
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (vFG9F)
I wonder if you could make one from a section of carbon fibre fishing rod or golf club shaft? Or maybe a ski pole?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 07:49 PM (npFr7)
94
YouTuber Banana Ballistics claims he got 5,100 FPS out of a 17 grain brass bullet in a necked down 5.56mm NATO case. The ballistics gel test had that bullet tumble through over a foot of get. See the link in the Battleswarm blog. Getting hit by a 17 grain projectile moving at 4,000+ FPS can't be good for you even if you have armor on. I've also seen test prototypes of fin stabilized discarding sabots being fired in 12 gauge cartridges. That would be interesting if we went back to smoothbores in order to use discarding sabot tech.
Posted by: Ed L
========
I read Battleswarm now and again. Good stuff there and the guy running it is squared away.
Not a material scientist but reloading and reading about proof, kablooey action reports, and other such problems leaves me very leary of very high pressures and component longevity.
Posted by: Ed L
========
I read Battleswarm now and again. Good stuff there and the guy running it is squared away.
Not a material scientist but reloading and reading about proof, kablooey action reports, and other such problems leaves me very leary of very high pressures and component longevity.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:50 PM (WDjG6)
95
A Armi San Marco reproduction of a 1860 Colt in 44 cal.
from Dixon's Muzzleoading shop in Kempton PA. I also got the bullet mold he said in .457 and yesterday cast 50 bullets but not so sure they will fit. A search for the answer is many do use the bigger bullets but it's not easy to seat them it looks.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:17 PM
Skip, you may already know this, but you want the balls oversize so that a ring of lead is sheared off as you ram the ball home. This helps seal the chamber (using some sealing lube is still a good idea, it helps keep fouling soft, and more importantly helps prevent chain fires), and provides more surface to engage the rifling.
Seat the ball in the chamber mouth with the 'sprue' bump from the casting vertically (i.e. out of contact with the barrel's rifling).
from Dixon's Muzzleoading shop in Kempton PA. I also got the bullet mold he said in .457 and yesterday cast 50 bullets but not so sure they will fit. A search for the answer is many do use the bigger bullets but it's not easy to seat them it looks.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 07:17 PM
Skip, you may already know this, but you want the balls oversize so that a ring of lead is sheared off as you ram the ball home. This helps seal the chamber (using some sealing lube is still a good idea, it helps keep fouling soft, and more importantly helps prevent chain fires), and provides more surface to engage the rifling.
Seat the ball in the chamber mouth with the 'sprue' bump from the casting vertically (i.e. out of contact with the barrel's rifling).
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 07:51 PM (0sNs1)
96
Whig is obviously not in Army procurement re: Spears.
Or not sleeping with the hot sales reps sig has ro be using.
Or not sleeping with the hot sales reps sig has ro be using.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 07:51 PM (4Me4i)
97
Didn't think it would affect the dot.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
Well, it doesn't affect the dot. It affects the bullet. 124gr have more oomph behind them, (I think) making them shot further without dropping. So, if you zeroed your dot with 124gr, then switched to a bullet with less oomph, it will drop faster and hit lower on the same target at the same distance.
This will be less noticeable at really close range OR for those of us with less consistency to start with.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 07:30 PM (t/2Uw)
Well, it doesn't affect the dot. It affects the bullet. 124gr have more oomph behind them, (I think) making them shot further without dropping. So, if you zeroed your dot with 124gr, then switched to a bullet with less oomph, it will drop faster and hit lower on the same target at the same distance.
This will be less noticeable at really close range OR for those of us with less consistency to start with.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:52 PM (dznca)
98
Wait. I thought it was an organic tree farm!
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM
Organic free-range tree farm.
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM
Organic free-range tree farm.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 07:53 PM (0sNs1)
99
Hats off to you sailor types for playing a good game of football a little bit better than the good guys.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat
***********
Odd way of saying Congrats to a hard fought win by Navy!
PI, I will make note of your new nic for future...
No range news this week, trying to thaw out...but checking the ranges near us in TN and the prices are way friendlier....
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat
***********
Odd way of saying Congrats to a hard fought win by Navy!
PI, I will make note of your new nic for future...
No range news this week, trying to thaw out...but checking the ranges near us in TN and the prices are way friendlier....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 07:53 PM (IQ6Gq)
100
I just remembered. So I'm here.
Weasel, in my browser, that $15 pistol" video has another one from the same channel, about the "$24 pistol that outlived...". I'll watch it later to see if it sillifies the $15 one, or vice versa.
Still no range time. (:
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (dznca)
That video, which I did watch all the way through, appears to be an AI product. The voice narration has weird halts and odd emphasis, e.g. "Smith ... and Wesson" (as though Smith, and Wesson were two distinct builders). And some stills weirdly inappropriate for the narrative content.
Weasel, in my browser, that $15 pistol" video has another one from the same channel, about the "$24 pistol that outlived...". I'll watch it later to see if it sillifies the $15 one, or vice versa.
Still no range time. (:
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:37 PM (dznca)
That video, which I did watch all the way through, appears to be an AI product. The voice narration has weird halts and odd emphasis, e.g. "Smith ... and Wesson" (as though Smith, and Wesson were two distinct builders). And some stills weirdly inappropriate for the narrative content.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 07:54 PM (npFr7)
101
Thanks again, Ed. I'll look around and see what I can find. Would be a good idea to pick up one or two backstraps just to be on the safe side.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM
Consider some extra magazines, as well.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:42 PM
Consider some extra magazines, as well.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 07:54 PM (0sNs1)
102
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 07:41 PM (4mmkh)
The USN's sorry saga of the LCS, Ford-class carrier (electromagnetic catapults, anyone?) and now the Constellation class frigate, should be a cautionary tale of betting on unproven or "to be invented" technology to save the day, especially if you need it in a hurry.
The USN's sorry saga of the LCS, Ford-class carrier (electromagnetic catapults, anyone?) and now the Constellation class frigate, should be a cautionary tale of betting on unproven or "to be invented" technology to save the day, especially if you need it in a hurry.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:54 PM (BCwQW)
103
And thank you Weasel for the flinching video...a problem that I've yet to totally banish, so will be watching that video repeatedly....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 07:54 PM (IQ6Gq)
104
73 ... "He just needs good one piece rod. I'll check those out, and the tow worm.
Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I just need to give him a gift certificate for Track of the Wolf."
f'd,
Does he have the correct size flints for the Charleville? TOTW will have them. Also, does he have real black powder? Flintlock guns don't do well with black powder substitutes. A 69 caliber gun would normally use 2F powder. NEVER USE MODERN SMOKELESS POWDER IN THESE GUNS. (Sorry if he already knows this.)
It is so great he wants to shoot traditional style black powder guns.
PS: Other accessories. An adjustable powder measure that can measure at least 100 grains of powder. And a powder flask or a spout that will screw onto the original powder container. Makes it easier to pour the powder into the measure.
Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I just need to give him a gift certificate for Track of the Wolf."
f'd,
Does he have the correct size flints for the Charleville? TOTW will have them. Also, does he have real black powder? Flintlock guns don't do well with black powder substitutes. A 69 caliber gun would normally use 2F powder. NEVER USE MODERN SMOKELESS POWDER IN THESE GUNS. (Sorry if he already knows this.)
It is so great he wants to shoot traditional style black powder guns.
PS: Other accessories. An adjustable powder measure that can measure at least 100 grains of powder. And a powder flask or a spout that will screw onto the original powder container. Makes it easier to pour the powder into the measure.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 07:55 PM (yTvNw)
105
Be unafraid to ask questions about savings options at your local range.
My daughter shoots for free on Wednesdays at our local range because it is Lady's Day. (One of the female instructors told her about it.)
I believe she just has to buy their targets at $3 each. I think she usually warms up with one and then shoots serious on a second target.
They also have shooting leagues that are free for members and you can meet some excellent shots and/or make new friends.
They even do group or party events. The price is a little steep, because I suspect most people do that on a packed Saturday afternoon. If you want to shoot cheap with family, maybe ask one of the owners about their most common dead time, and make an offer to buy a lane then with a group. You might get a great rate if the owner understands marginal costs.
My daughter shoots for free on Wednesdays at our local range because it is Lady's Day. (One of the female instructors told her about it.)
I believe she just has to buy their targets at $3 each. I think she usually warms up with one and then shoots serious on a second target.
They also have shooting leagues that are free for members and you can meet some excellent shots and/or make new friends.
They even do group or party events. The price is a little steep, because I suspect most people do that on a packed Saturday afternoon. If you want to shoot cheap with family, maybe ask one of the owners about their most common dead time, and make an offer to buy a lane then with a group. You might get a great rate if the owner understands marginal costs.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:56 PM (HlyYF)
106
What a soldier wants: A "Hammer's Slammers" powergun with crew-served lasers for support.
What a soldier would settle for: Keeping the M4 for up close and personal action while getting a buttload of man-packable mini-drones for long range work.
What a soldier gets: The M7 rifle.
What a soldier would settle for: Keeping the M4 for up close and personal action while getting a buttload of man-packable mini-drones for long range work.
What a soldier gets: The M7 rifle.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (4mmkh)
107
Tree farms need tending. And defending. From tree rustlers. A range is just another necessary expense, like tractors and F-150s.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (vFG9F)
108
83 I bought WeaselAcres so I'd have my very own range!
Posted by: Weasel
I had a chance to do that, and could kick myself for not doing so. There was a 40-acre property on the delightfully-named Booger Hollar Road in Stanly County, North Carolina, which would have not only made it possible for me to shoot on my own private range, but to put on airs by telling everybody "I'm Paco, of the Booger Hollar Pacos". There's even a ghost story connected to a nearby creek.
Wound up on the coast, however; better air for Mrs. Paco's asthma, the doctor said.
Posted by: Weasel
I had a chance to do that, and could kick myself for not doing so. There was a 40-acre property on the delightfully-named Booger Hollar Road in Stanly County, North Carolina, which would have not only made it possible for me to shoot on my own private range, but to put on airs by telling everybody "I'm Paco, of the Booger Hollar Pacos". There's even a ghost story connected to a nearby creek.
Wound up on the coast, however; better air for Mrs. Paco's asthma, the doctor said.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (2L+MU)
109
Weasel, have you discussed the likely possibility of charging the F-150's battery on the kitchen counter with WW yet?
Sometimes it's better to socialize issues before need.
Sometimes it's better to socialize issues before need.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (0sNs1)
110
The oldest Colt double-action I have is a nice, but garden variety, Police Positive manufactured in 1926 (chambered in Colt .38 New Police). Very tight lock-up.
Pretty interesting about making a gun so it would "wear into perfection"!
Posted by: Paco
======
I like old Colts and have several of them. That being said, there are relatively few gunsmiths that can work on them nowadays compared to a lot of folks that can work on Smiths, even back to the 1890's. Frank Glenn in Phoenix AZ is the top guru for this. Interarms has entered the field (they also do old High Standards), and I think Cylinder and Slide in Nebraska. A few others around but a dying breed. More gunsmiths work on the old Colt Single Action Army as that action is simpler to do. Few if any work on Colt Lightnings which is the transition double action revolver before the 1890's newer Colt actions.
Colt Lightnings are fragile and must be treated with care if you plan on firing them.
Pretty interesting about making a gun so it would "wear into perfection"!
Posted by: Paco
======
I like old Colts and have several of them. That being said, there are relatively few gunsmiths that can work on them nowadays compared to a lot of folks that can work on Smiths, even back to the 1890's. Frank Glenn in Phoenix AZ is the top guru for this. Interarms has entered the field (they also do old High Standards), and I think Cylinder and Slide in Nebraska. A few others around but a dying breed. More gunsmiths work on the old Colt Single Action Army as that action is simpler to do. Few if any work on Colt Lightnings which is the transition double action revolver before the 1890's newer Colt actions.
Colt Lightnings are fragile and must be treated with care if you plan on firing them.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (WDjG6)
111
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (vFG9F)
----
Yes. To the untrained eye, organic tree farming looks like sitting around and goofing off and smoking cigars.
----
Yes. To the untrained eye, organic tree farming looks like sitting around and goofing off and smoking cigars.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (vt7xw)
112
If I had that task before me, I would prefer that the army issued me my own personal A-10 Warthog.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (HlyYF)
You don't need the whole warthog. Just the part that goes BRRRRRRT!
Though the part with wings makes it a lot funnier to use the other part.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 07:35 PM (HlyYF)
You don't need the whole warthog. Just the part that goes BRRRRRRT!
Though the part with wings makes it a lot funnier to use the other part.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (dznca)
113
What a soldier gets: The M7 rifle.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (4mmkh)
Well, the soldier did not get to sleep with the hot Sig rep.
I ASSUME there was chicanery here (considering the number of contracts Sig seemed to get all at once.) Getting laid is more understandable than taking a
massive bribe. But they probably took a massive bribe.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (4mmkh)
Well, the soldier did not get to sleep with the hot Sig rep.
I ASSUME there was chicanery here (considering the number of contracts Sig seemed to get all at once.) Getting laid is more understandable than taking a
massive bribe. But they probably took a massive bribe.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM (4Me4i)
114
101 Consider some extra magazines, as well. - Duncanthrax
Oh, I have done that, brother, for sure! I believe I have half a dozen or more, between the two pistols. Guess it wouldn't hurt, though, to buy a few more.
Oh, I have done that, brother, for sure! I believe I have half a dozen or more, between the two pistols. Guess it wouldn't hurt, though, to buy a few more.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM (2L+MU)
115
Tree farms need tending. And defending. From tree rustlers. A range is just another necessary expense, like tractors and F-150s.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (vFG9F)
And you have to be ready to ruthlessly shoot the ringleaders, should they stampede.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (vFG9F)
And you have to be ready to ruthlessly shoot the ringleaders, should they stampede.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM (npFr7)
116
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 07:57 PM (0sNs1)
----
I've worked diligently over the years to manage her expectations!
----
I've worked diligently over the years to manage her expectations!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:01 PM (vt7xw)
117
Thanks JTB. He has a flask and even a uniform to go with the Charleville. The boy is into it.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 08:01 PM (vFG9F)
118
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM
Once I'm permanently in NH, I'll have to become a member.
Once I'm permanently in NH, I'll have to become a member.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 08:01 PM (Wnv9h)
119
Watch guntubers with super safeties or FRTs. They go to great pains to point out that they are shooting semi-auto. That is mainly due to the youtube monetization thing.
It is also winking at the law, kind of like our frequent canoe accidents. Or pistol braces.
At some point, the ATF is going to say, no, you cannot have nice things. Like with pistol braces (yes, they are back now - provisionally) and bump stocks.
We've had some incredible victories on the 2A front in the courts and with the administration's approach. But I am not sanguine for the future.
It is also winking at the law, kind of like our frequent canoe accidents. Or pistol braces.
At some point, the ATF is going to say, no, you cannot have nice things. Like with pistol braces (yes, they are back now - provisionally) and bump stocks.
We've had some incredible victories on the 2A front in the courts and with the administration's approach. But I am not sanguine for the future.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:01 PM (RoO7G)
120
The M855A1 (5.56mm NATO) and M80A1 (7.62mm NATO) are the leading edge for bullet tech at the moment. Both rounds use a steel tip in front of a copper slug for increased penetration power. However, they're meant to go through cover/concealment (car doors, interior walls, etc.). They aren't designed to go through Level 4 armor (IBA), though. The big downside for both is the increased pressure and resulting wear on bolts and barrels. But if Uncle is footing the bill on wholesale quantities of MILSPEC bolts and barrels, he can afford to shrug off the costs and replace those components more often.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM
I saw a video recently of a guy shooting that kind of stuff at some old Warsaw Pact APC armor. It made some dents, and may have spalled off a little material on the inside.
He then shot is with a 9 mm steel sabot round from his Glock. It punch a small hole clean through the plate.
If the video was not faked, then that bit of technology is an excellent starting point for defeating enemy body armor with better bullet technology, rather than chamber pressures.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 07:46 PM
I saw a video recently of a guy shooting that kind of stuff at some old Warsaw Pact APC armor. It made some dents, and may have spalled off a little material on the inside.
He then shot is with a 9 mm steel sabot round from his Glock. It punch a small hole clean through the plate.
If the video was not faked, then that bit of technology is an excellent starting point for defeating enemy body armor with better bullet technology, rather than chamber pressures.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:01 PM (HlyYF)
121
Grateful and Sharon, I was thinking about last week’s conversation.
Would a basic “AR 15 for beginners” be a better choice? I guarantee we can get you out to 300 effectively, with emphasis on closer ranges for the real world.
I think every patriot should have a working knowledge of the AR platform (and should own one).
If you want to do long range, it really should be after AR qualification.
Would a basic “AR 15 for beginners” be a better choice? I guarantee we can get you out to 300 effectively, with emphasis on closer ranges for the real world.
I think every patriot should have a working knowledge of the AR platform (and should own one).
If you want to do long range, it really should be after AR qualification.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM (bxySM)
122
110 Few if any work on Colt Lightnings which is the transition double action revolver before the 1890's newer Colt actions. - whig
Isn't that the one that was referred to as "the gunsmith's favorite" because the mechanism was prone to breakage?
Isn't that the one that was referred to as "the gunsmith's favorite" because the mechanism was prone to breakage?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM (2L+MU)
123
Oh, I have done that, brother, for sure! I believe I have half a dozen or more, between the two pistols. Guess it wouldn't hurt, though, to buy a few more.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM
Especially foreign no-longer-manufactured magazines.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM
Especially foreign no-longer-manufactured magazines.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM (0sNs1)
124
Need those pointy cop killer bullets from Lethal Weapon 3.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:03 PM (4Me4i)
125
The best tree farmers make it look easy.
Posted by: fd at December 14, 2025 08:03 PM (vFG9F)
126
Brown shooter white male 34 yo drive 17 hours from WS ex military
Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (eoWeL)
127
RI Red, a shotgun is more viable than an AR.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (sDNVV)
128
I just remembered, it was not a 9mm bullet (regarding the sabot round).
He changed out the barrel on his Glock, and the cartridge he fired was necked down a little.
I apologize for adding my two cents and not even giving useful details.
He changed out the barrel on his Glock, and the cartridge he fired was necked down a little.
I apologize for adding my two cents and not even giving useful details.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (HlyYF)
129
Duncanthrax yeah I take that from reading forums since noon yesterday after I made 50 bullets and thought no way will they fit.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 08:05 PM (Ia/+0)
130
Daily Mail had a headline about the Brown University gunman and his "laser-reinforced rifle".
Is this the next-generation of "the thing that goes up"?
Is this the next-generation of "the thing that goes up"?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:06 PM (0sNs1)
131
OK. I saw the Highguard trailer. It is a woke mess, but one thing I thought funny, yet captivating.
So this guy has a long rifle of some sort, he reloads by shoving a magazine into the side of the rifle. Like an FG-42. But he shoved it into the right side. Which seems retarded even on top of everything else. Either the casings would eject then downwards, straight up somehow, or directly into the guy shooting the gun.
So this guy has a long rifle of some sort, he reloads by shoving a magazine into the side of the rifle. Like an FG-42. But he shoved it into the right side. Which seems retarded even on top of everything else. Either the casings would eject then downwards, straight up somehow, or directly into the guy shooting the gun.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:06 PM (4Me4i)
132
Daily Mail had a headline about the Brown University gunman and his "laser-reinforced rifle".
Is this the next-generation of "the thing that goes up"?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:06 PM (0sNs1)
----
I saw that. Extra skerry!
Is this the next-generation of "the thing that goes up"?
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:06 PM (0sNs1)
----
I saw that. Extra skerry!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:07 PM (vt7xw)
133
Well, it doesn't affect the dot. It affects the bullet. 124gr have more oomph behind them, (I think) making them shot further without dropping. So, if you zeroed your dot with 124gr, then switched to a bullet with less oomph, it will drop faster and hit lower on the same target at the same distance.
Accchshully, with pistols at pistol range, lighter bullets with higher velocity hit lower on the target because they spend less time in the barrel while the pistol muzzle is climbing upwards during recoil.
Accchshully, with pistols at pistol range, lighter bullets with higher velocity hit lower on the target because they spend less time in the barrel while the pistol muzzle is climbing upwards during recoil.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:07 PM (4mmkh)
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:07 PM (4Me4i)
135
So, considering Ass, I am guessing the shooter is a middle eastern guy?
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:08 PM (4Me4i)
136
We've had some incredible victories on the 2A front in the courts and with the administration's approach. But I am not sanguine for the future.
Posted by: blaster
---------
Eh, we can only fight the battles of our day. But people lusting after full auto and then trying every way to emulate it are going to be disappointed.
I am pretty sure that Scotus is not going to tell Fedgov/ATF that they cannot regulate full auto machine guns and likewise any attempts to get around that bar via tech tricks because of ATF latitude even now in regulations.
There is also no appetite in Congress to legalized machine guns for everyone despite teh fact that cartels or criminals don't give one shit about it and the restrictions really only affect law abiding citizens.
Intellectually, the 2A absolutist have a point but in the nitty gritty of political realism--ain't gonna happen. Take teh silencers and SBRs having their tax set to zero as a marginal victory. We might get registration killed on silencers if not SBRs soon as they become mainstream and depreciate the stupid Hollywood beliefs of phut, phut, phut on high powered rifles.
Posted by: blaster
---------
Eh, we can only fight the battles of our day. But people lusting after full auto and then trying every way to emulate it are going to be disappointed.
I am pretty sure that Scotus is not going to tell Fedgov/ATF that they cannot regulate full auto machine guns and likewise any attempts to get around that bar via tech tricks because of ATF latitude even now in regulations.
There is also no appetite in Congress to legalized machine guns for everyone despite teh fact that cartels or criminals don't give one shit about it and the restrictions really only affect law abiding citizens.
Intellectually, the 2A absolutist have a point but in the nitty gritty of political realism--ain't gonna happen. Take teh silencers and SBRs having their tax set to zero as a marginal victory. We might get registration killed on silencers if not SBRs soon as they become mainstream and depreciate the stupid Hollywood beliefs of phut, phut, phut on high powered rifles.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:09 PM (WDjG6)
137
Colt was famous for its bank vault lockup using its very old circa 1890's locking action which also incidentally was fine until you had timing issues. Basically Swiss watch where even messing up a slight bevel on something like the cylinder bolt could cause issues. The bank vault lockup was caused by hand (also called pawl) which positively locks the cylinder at the very time of firing. That is also what doing stupid things with Colts can get buggered up along with timing on them.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:31 PM (WDjG6)
I picked up a 1914 Colt New Service in .45 Colt at the end of last month. I put two cylinders through it after cleaning it up. The finish is almost all gone, but that cylinder still has that "bank vault" lockup 111 years after it came off the line at the Hartford factory.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 07:31 PM (WDjG6)
I picked up a 1914 Colt New Service in .45 Colt at the end of last month. I put two cylinders through it after cleaning it up. The finish is almost all gone, but that cylinder still has that "bank vault" lockup 111 years after it came off the line at the Hartford factory.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:09 PM (BCwQW)
138
You don't need the whole warthog. Just the part that goes BRRRRRRT!
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM
I agree that is the only part I really need.
However, I have missed "arm day" enough times at the gym over that last few years that I am no longer capable of carrying the 30 mm GAU-8 Avenger rotary autocannon for extended periods of time in the field.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM
I agree that is the only part I really need.
However, I have missed "arm day" enough times at the gym over that last few years that I am no longer capable of carrying the 30 mm GAU-8 Avenger rotary autocannon for extended periods of time in the field.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:09 PM (HlyYF)
139
RI Red, a shotgun is more viable than an AR.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (sDNVV)
Certainly, out to about 40 yards.
But limited magazine capacity and more recoil than most small adults like.
Different tools for different jobs.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (sDNVV)
Certainly, out to about 40 yards.
But limited magazine capacity and more recoil than most small adults like.
Different tools for different jobs.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:10 PM (bxySM)
140
Isn't that the one that was referred to as "the gunsmith's favorite" because the mechanism was prone to breakage?
Posted by: Paco
Even back in the day that was true. Now the parts are unobtanium and you either need another to rob parts from or a gunsmith talented enought to actually make replacement parts and fit them to the particular firearm.
Colts always back in the day were hand fitted and that means something a used part from another revolver won't fit yours without fitting or doing some voodoo build up and file down things.
Posted by: Paco
Even back in the day that was true. Now the parts are unobtanium and you either need another to rob parts from or a gunsmith talented enought to actually make replacement parts and fit them to the particular firearm.
Colts always back in the day were hand fitted and that means something a used part from another revolver won't fit yours without fitting or doing some voodoo build up and file down things.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:11 PM (WDjG6)
141
Duncanthrax yeah I take that from reading forums since noon yesterday after I made 50 bullets and thought no way will they fit.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 08:05 PM
.457" might actually be a little small, depending on your cylinder's chamber size(s), but it's a good place to start.
You can use Crisco for a sealant on top of the bullet to get started. I'm sure there are commercial products that are better. It's been some years since I shot any BP revolvers.
Posted by: Skip at December 14, 2025 08:05 PM
.457" might actually be a little small, depending on your cylinder's chamber size(s), but it's a good place to start.
You can use Crisco for a sealant on top of the bullet to get started. I'm sure there are commercial products that are better. It's been some years since I shot any BP revolvers.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:11 PM (0sNs1)
142
123 Especially foreign no-longer-manufactured magazines. - Duncanthrax
You know, I'm kind of wondering about that. Walther came out with what it called the "Final Edition" of the P99 in 2023 (that's the "new one" I referred to), but you still see them selling new, everywhere. Did Walther really just have a huge last manufacturing run and is the company selling from that inventory, or is it secretly continuing to make them because the Final Edition is a good marketing scheme?
You know, I'm kind of wondering about that. Walther came out with what it called the "Final Edition" of the P99 in 2023 (that's the "new one" I referred to), but you still see them selling new, everywhere. Did Walther really just have a huge last manufacturing run and is the company selling from that inventory, or is it secretly continuing to make them because the Final Edition is a good marketing scheme?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM (2L+MU)
143
I saw a video recently of a guy shooting that kind of stuff at some old Warsaw Pact APC armor. It made some dents, and may have spalled off a little material on the inside.
He then shot is with a 9 mm steel sabot round from his Glock. It punch a small hole clean through the plate.
That would be Ian McCollum the aforementioned "Gun Jesus."
https://youtu.be/90ECrL_4GPc
He then shot is with a 9 mm steel sabot round from his Glock. It punch a small hole clean through the plate.
That would be Ian McCollum the aforementioned "Gun Jesus."
https://youtu.be/90ECrL_4GPc
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM (3nLb4)
144
121 Would a basic “AR 15 for beginners” be a better choice?
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM
127 RI Red, a shotgun is more viable than an AR.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM
***
I have been given permission to speak on behalf of Grateful - yes, BOTH please. Thank you!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM
127 RI Red, a shotgun is more viable than an AR.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM
***
I have been given permission to speak on behalf of Grateful - yes, BOTH please. Thank you!
Posted by: TRex - spokesdino at December 14, 2025 08:13 PM (IQ6Gq)
145
128 I just remembered, it was not a 9mm bullet (regarding the sabot round).
He changed out the barrel on his Glock, and the cartridge he fired was necked down a little.
I apologize for adding my two cents and not even giving useful details.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (HlyYF)
PI, you can swap out a 9 mm barrel for .357 Sig. It’s a necked-down .40 cartridge shooting a .355” round at up to 1500 fps.
Designed for penetration of car bodies. Probably effective on some body armor.
He changed out the barrel on his Glock, and the cartridge he fired was necked down a little.
I apologize for adding my two cents and not even giving useful details.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:04 PM (HlyYF)
PI, you can swap out a 9 mm barrel for .357 Sig. It’s a necked-down .40 cartridge shooting a .355” round at up to 1500 fps.
Designed for penetration of car bodies. Probably effective on some body armor.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:14 PM (bxySM)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at December 14, 2025 08:14 PM (L/fGl)
147
RI Red, most people on a high stress situation couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 5 yards.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (sDNVV)
148
Cigars? LOL. Some golf friends fire one up. I love the aroma.
The last thing I need is another vice and addiction.
But I love cigars.
The last thing I need is another vice and addiction.
But I love cigars.
Posted by: no one at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (W7XSX)
149
So, considering Ass, I am guessing the shooter is a middle eastern guy?
Doesn't sound like it. From Powerline:
SUSPECT IDENTIFIED: The person under arrest has now been identified as Benjamin Erickson, 24, of Wisconsin. He is reported to have an extensive mental health history, but what led him to commit murder at Brown is still unknown.
Doesn't sound like it. From Powerline:
SUSPECT IDENTIFIED: The person under arrest has now been identified as Benjamin Erickson, 24, of Wisconsin. He is reported to have an extensive mental health history, but what led him to commit murder at Brown is still unknown.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (3nLb4)
150
I'm sure this was discussed on other threads, and I'm going to touch on a part that is more than adjacent to guns.
The hero at the Bondi Beach shooting did NOT shoot the guy when he took the bad guy's rifle away. Some think he didn't have the mindset to shoot him, but others have wondered if he didn't know how to operate a bolt action rifle. He attacks immediately after the bad guy fires, and before he could operate the bolt, so there's an expended round in the chamber (I think). So, pulling the trigger will do nothing. And I do not believe I saw the hero operate bolt. So he's holding, as someone said, "an awkward club."
How many folks would be even LESS familiar with operating a bolt action than a semi-automatic with a manual safety?
The hero at the Bondi Beach shooting did NOT shoot the guy when he took the bad guy's rifle away. Some think he didn't have the mindset to shoot him, but others have wondered if he didn't know how to operate a bolt action rifle. He attacks immediately after the bad guy fires, and before he could operate the bolt, so there's an expended round in the chamber (I think). So, pulling the trigger will do nothing. And I do not believe I saw the hero operate bolt. So he's holding, as someone said, "an awkward club."
How many folks would be even LESS familiar with operating a bolt action than a semi-automatic with a manual safety?
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (dznca)
151
Though the part with wings makes it a lot funnier to use the other part.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (dznca)
"Funner"! Damn you, auto-cucumber!
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (dznca)
"Funner"! Damn you, auto-cucumber!
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:17 PM (dznca)
152
I picked up a 1914 Colt New Service in .45 Colt at the end of last month. I put two cylinders through it after cleaning it up. The finish is almost all gone, but that cylinder still has that "bank vault" lockup 111 years after it came off the line at the Hartford factory.
Posted by: Ed L
----------
If you look around on firearms forum archives for a guy named Old Fuff, he has a revolver guide that was widely distributed from Usenet days that is excellent for steps in checking the action.
On old D/A Colts, make sure that you do the full trigger pull (none of that link catching bullshit used on semi autos) and a full return. You can actually skip a Colt out of time a bit if you try to trick the trigger. The New Service is so large that the V Spring does not have the bind that the smaller Official Police/Python Old Model do and those don't have the bind (causing stacking) that the Police Positive do because of teh size and geometry of the V Spring.
An unappreciated collectible in teh New Service is their Shooting Masters which simply don't have the collector interest that the snake guns nor the registered magnums/Triple Lock do for S&W.
Well worth obtaining.
Posted by: Ed L
----------
If you look around on firearms forum archives for a guy named Old Fuff, he has a revolver guide that was widely distributed from Usenet days that is excellent for steps in checking the action.
On old D/A Colts, make sure that you do the full trigger pull (none of that link catching bullshit used on semi autos) and a full return. You can actually skip a Colt out of time a bit if you try to trick the trigger. The New Service is so large that the V Spring does not have the bind that the smaller Official Police/Python Old Model do and those don't have the bind (causing stacking) that the Police Positive do because of teh size and geometry of the V Spring.
An unappreciated collectible in teh New Service is their Shooting Masters which simply don't have the collector interest that the snake guns nor the registered magnums/Triple Lock do for S&W.
Well worth obtaining.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:17 PM (WDjG6)
153
Certainly, out to about 40 yards.
But limited magazine capacity and more recoil than most small adults like.
Different tools for different jobs.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:10 PM
Slugs can be good to 50-60 yards. Louis Awerbuck could take them out to 100 or so, but his shotgun skills were exceptional.
That's with a smoothbore and rifled slugs. Why slugs for smoothbores are yclept "rifled" is a question I've always had.
For slugs made for rifled barrels, and with a good shotgun (Savage 212 and 220 are the only reasonable good choices for such), 150 to 200 yards are not at all unreasonable.
But limited magazine capacity and more recoil than most small adults like.
Different tools for different jobs.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:10 PM
Slugs can be good to 50-60 yards. Louis Awerbuck could take them out to 100 or so, but his shotgun skills were exceptional.
That's with a smoothbore and rifled slugs. Why slugs for smoothbores are yclept "rifled" is a question I've always had.
For slugs made for rifled barrels, and with a good shotgun (Savage 212 and 220 are the only reasonable good choices for such), 150 to 200 yards are not at all unreasonable.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:18 PM (0sNs1)
154
Isn't that the one that was referred to as "the gunsmith's favorite" because the mechanism was prone to breakage?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM (2L+MU)
That might be the Colt New Army, the .38 Long Colt replacement for the SAA that didn't fare well in the minds of soldiers serving in the Philippines taking on the Moros. It's the only Colt revolver I know of that rotates counterclockwise. C&Rsenal explains in their episode about the New Army why that was problematic and why this, more so than the .38 Long Colt cartridge, paved the way for the New Army's ultimate replacement with the M1911.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:02 PM (2L+MU)
That might be the Colt New Army, the .38 Long Colt replacement for the SAA that didn't fare well in the minds of soldiers serving in the Philippines taking on the Moros. It's the only Colt revolver I know of that rotates counterclockwise. C&Rsenal explains in their episode about the New Army why that was problematic and why this, more so than the .38 Long Colt cartridge, paved the way for the New Army's ultimate replacement with the M1911.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:18 PM (BCwQW)
155
Dang it, I forgot I had a Gun Thread question.
The safety on my Savage 110 Tactical is frozen in the "fire" position. It sits in a little depression behind the bolt. Unless there is some odd mechanical failure, I suspect I got a bit of moisture in there?
(I did have it out last year for deer season during "frost forming" conditions. I wiped it down with No. 9 and put it away for the year.)
I have been putting a little Hoppe's on it, but have not yet been able to free the safety switch.
If it was a common household item, I would give it a mild rap with a punch at this point. However, I don't know what delicate parts it is connected to, so want to avoid my typical brutish repairs.
Any advice from the Morons?
The safety on my Savage 110 Tactical is frozen in the "fire" position. It sits in a little depression behind the bolt. Unless there is some odd mechanical failure, I suspect I got a bit of moisture in there?
(I did have it out last year for deer season during "frost forming" conditions. I wiped it down with No. 9 and put it away for the year.)
I have been putting a little Hoppe's on it, but have not yet been able to free the safety switch.
If it was a common household item, I would give it a mild rap with a punch at this point. However, I don't know what delicate parts it is connected to, so want to avoid my typical brutish repairs.
Any advice from the Morons?
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:18 PM (HlyYF)
156
Diogenes, not just a great cigar review but timely. That stick is on my to-try list. Have enjoyed many others from the R&j line but that one remains to be experienced.
Just finished another basic reliable cigar, a Brick House habano, on the porch. Rest of thread will have to wait while I get the mushroom gravy started.
Just finished another basic reliable cigar, a Brick House habano, on the porch. Rest of thread will have to wait while I get the mushroom gravy started.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 14, 2025 08:18 PM (w3KHJ)
157
And you have to be ready to ruthlessly shoot the ringleaders, should they stampede.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM (npFr7)
Probably the larches. It's always the quiet ones.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:00 PM (npFr7)
Probably the larches. It's always the quiet ones.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (dznca)
158
You know, I'm kind of wondering about that. Walther came out with what it called the "Final Edition" of the P99 in 2023 (that's the "new one" I referred to), but you still see them selling new, everywhere. Did Walther really just have a huge last manufacturing run and is the company selling from that inventory, or is it secretly continuing to make them because the Final Edition is a good marketing scheme?
Posted by: Paco
======
Probably until parts run out including some police/etc contracts. P99 had a good run. Underappreciated firearm.
Posted by: Paco
======
Probably until parts run out including some police/etc contracts. P99 had a good run. Underappreciated firearm.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (WDjG6)
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
160
I am old enough to know how to operate a bolt action rifle.
Someone half my age, considering today's lower standards of education?
LOL
Someone half my age, considering today's lower standards of education?
LOL
Posted by: no one at December 14, 2025 08:20 PM (W7XSX)
161
Walthers are generally underappreciated. H&Ks even more so.
As that Sham-Wow pitchman said, "Those Germans, you know they make good stuff."
As that Sham-Wow pitchman said, "Those Germans, you know they make good stuff."
Posted by: Duncanthrax at December 14, 2025 08:21 PM (0sNs1)
162
Forget the cigar…how about the stein?
I have, to this day, a sweatshirt like that. It used to fit me…until I went from 5’3’’ to 5’10’’ In very short order on my way to 6’1”.
I have, to this day, a sweatshirt like that. It used to fit me…until I went from 5’3’’ to 5’10’’ In very short order on my way to 6’1”.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 08:21 PM (4786I)
163
You know, I'm kind of wondering about that. Walther came out with what it called the "Final Edition" of the P99 in 2023 (that's the "new one" I referred to), but you still see them selling new, everywhere. Did Walther really just have a huge last manufacturing run and is the company selling from that inventory, or is it secretly continuing to make them because the Final Edition is a good marketing scheme?
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM (2L+MU)
The P99 was (and still is) adopted extensively in Europe as a police and military sidearm. Walther said that they'll continue to support their government and military customers for the P99, but commercial sales are ending.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM (2L+MU)
The P99 was (and still is) adopted extensively in Europe as a police and military sidearm. Walther said that they'll continue to support their government and military customers for the P99, but commercial sales are ending.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:21 PM (BCwQW)
164
That might be the Colt New Army, the .38 Long Colt replacement for the SAA that didn't fare well in the minds of soldiers serving in the Philippines taking on the Moros. It's the only Colt revolver I know of that rotates counterclockwise. C&Rsenal explains in their episode about the New Army why that was problematic and why this, more so than the .38 Long Colt cartridge, paved the way for the New Army's ultimate replacement with the M1911.
Posted by: Ed L
======
Nope, it is the Lightning. A generation earlier firearm. The New Army was of the later 1890's era locking mechanism that was derived from lessons learned from parts breakage on the Lightnings.
The 38 Long Colt was just an anemic round, archaic even then heeled bullets, and was not the short range killer for nasty guerilla wars.
Posted by: Ed L
======
Nope, it is the Lightning. A generation earlier firearm. The New Army was of the later 1890's era locking mechanism that was derived from lessons learned from parts breakage on the Lightnings.
The 38 Long Colt was just an anemic round, archaic even then heeled bullets, and was not the short range killer for nasty guerilla wars.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (WDjG6)
165
He then shot it with a 9 mm steel sabot round from his Glock. It punched a small hole clean through the plate.
That would be Ian McCollum the aforementioned "Gun Jesus."
https://youtu.be/90ECrL_4GPc
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM
Thanks Oddbob, I had watched a snippet from the video that you linked.
If anyone is interested, that video is an impressive example of the benefits of using sabot rounds.
That would be Ian McCollum the aforementioned "Gun Jesus."
https://youtu.be/90ECrL_4GPc
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:12 PM
Thanks Oddbob, I had watched a snippet from the video that you linked.
If anyone is interested, that video is an impressive example of the benefits of using sabot rounds.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (HlyYF)
166
I have an AR and a shotgun sitting arms length. If .a situation arises that I need to check I'm taking the shotgun.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (sDNVV)
167
I like understanding what I am shooting so yes. I have had some experience and can shoot 200 yds without a problem. I shoot better seared and stable. Have never shot prone. My limits experience with a shotgun resulted in a sore shoulder.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (t/2Uw)
168
Accchshully, with pistols at pistol range, lighter bullets with higher velocity hit lower on the target because they spend less time in the barrel while the pistol muzzle is climbing upwards during recoil.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:07 PM (4mmkh)
Thank you. I couldn't remember which way it would trend.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:07 PM (4mmkh)
Thank you. I couldn't remember which way it would trend.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:24 PM (dznca)
169
161 Walthers are generally underappreciated. H&Ks even more so.
As that Sham-Wow pitchman said, "Those Germans, you know they make good stuff."
Posted by: Duncanthrax
=========
They make some lousy firearms too just like other countries (lot of Saturday Night Special RG revolvers around). Beretta and Benelli also made good firearms (and some lousy ones) along the way despite the general attitude toward Italian manufacturing.
Firearms with a military/police pedigree are always more likely to work okay because if not, they are short lived (Colt All American 2000 anyone?).
As that Sham-Wow pitchman said, "Those Germans, you know they make good stuff."
Posted by: Duncanthrax
=========
They make some lousy firearms too just like other countries (lot of Saturday Night Special RG revolvers around). Beretta and Benelli also made good firearms (and some lousy ones) along the way despite the general attitude toward Italian manufacturing.
Firearms with a military/police pedigree are always more likely to work okay because if not, they are short lived (Colt All American 2000 anyone?).
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:26 PM (WDjG6)
170
An unappreciated collectible in teh New Service is their Shooting Masters which simply don't have the collector interest that the snake guns nor the registered magnums/Triple Lock do for S&W.
Well worth obtaining.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:17 PM (WDjG6)
Thanks for the tips, whig. I tried to make sure I pulled the trigger all the way back and let it come forward again when shot my test rounds through that New Service.
I've seen a Shooting Master in person only once over the years I've gone to Chantilly. Someone else snapped it up before I could make up my mind whether to buy or not.
Well worth obtaining.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:17 PM (WDjG6)
Thanks for the tips, whig. I tried to make sure I pulled the trigger all the way back and let it come forward again when shot my test rounds through that New Service.
I've seen a Shooting Master in person only once over the years I've gone to Chantilly. Someone else snapped it up before I could make up my mind whether to buy or not.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:26 PM (BCwQW)
171
147 RI Red, most people on a high stress situation couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 5 yards.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (sDNVV)
Agreed. But if you practice a lot, the muscle memory and manual of arms will stay with you and make your reaction just a little bit better.
You don’t want to be pulling out a shotgun or an AR in a high stress situation, having not been to the range in 6 months.
Practice practice, practice, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (sDNVV)
Agreed. But if you practice a lot, the muscle memory and manual of arms will stay with you and make your reaction just a little bit better.
You don’t want to be pulling out a shotgun or an AR in a high stress situation, having not been to the range in 6 months.
Practice practice, practice, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:27 PM (bxySM)
172
158 Probably until parts run out including some police/etc contracts. P99 had a good run. Underappreciated firearm. - whig
I love mine. Feels good in the hand, shoots straight, and I have never had a jam or failure to feed or eject. Disassembles very easily. Wonderful trigger, and I like the magazine release paddles or switches or whatever you call them on either side of the trigger guard. Like the decocker, too.
I love mine. Feels good in the hand, shoots straight, and I have never had a jam or failure to feed or eject. Disassembles very easily. Wonderful trigger, and I like the magazine release paddles or switches or whatever you call them on either side of the trigger guard. Like the decocker, too.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:27 PM (2L+MU)
173
Skip,
The suggested ball size for the Armi San Marco 1860 Colt is usually .454. The .457 will work but might be a little harder to ram home. Crisco or any shortening without salt can be used to seal the chamber mouth but there are plenty of other products out there designed for that. I don't do that but use wads punched from heavy felt. I soak them in a mix of beeswax and sheep tallow and let them dry on wax paper. I load the powder, the wad, then the ball on top of the wad. It works well. It's an extra step to prepare them but makes loading faster and easier and avoids some of the mess. BTW, the wads are .457". I have a smaller punch for the 36 caliber percussion revolvers.
The suggested ball size for the Armi San Marco 1860 Colt is usually .454. The .457 will work but might be a little harder to ram home. Crisco or any shortening without salt can be used to seal the chamber mouth but there are plenty of other products out there designed for that. I don't do that but use wads punched from heavy felt. I soak them in a mix of beeswax and sheep tallow and let them dry on wax paper. I load the powder, the wad, then the ball on top of the wad. It works well. It's an extra step to prepare them but makes loading faster and easier and avoids some of the mess. BTW, the wads are .457". I have a smaller punch for the 36 caliber percussion revolvers.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 08:28 PM (yTvNw)
174
Any advice from the Morons?
Posted by: Pillage Idiot
======
Find yourself some Kroil and apply it try the safety, try a little more, try the safety. Let it sit for a day, do it some more. PB blaster is almost as good but messier. Both stink from solvents used-different odors but both stink.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot
======
Find yourself some Kroil and apply it try the safety, try a little more, try the safety. Let it sit for a day, do it some more. PB blaster is almost as good but messier. Both stink from solvents used-different odors but both stink.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:28 PM (WDjG6)
175
Weasel, RMBS, Scoobs, CBD, please take note for the Spring!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
------
Remind me closer to spring but I have a target AR setup. It's featured in one of the vids I made.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
------
Remind me closer to spring but I have a target AR setup. It's featured in one of the vids I made.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:29 PM (cIOlQ)
176
RI Red, most people on a high stress situation couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 5 yards.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (sDNVV)
Heh...I have had range days when I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with zero stress!
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:15 PM (sDNVV)
Heh...I have had range days when I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with zero stress!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 14, 2025 08:29 PM (n9ltV)
177
OK!
ARs are a hoot to shoot.
Weasel, RMBS, Scoobs, CBD, please take note for the Spring!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM
Will bring my A2 as well as my 110 EP.
ARs are a hoot to shoot.
Weasel, RMBS, Scoobs, CBD, please take note for the Spring!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM
Will bring my A2 as well as my 110 EP.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (Wnv9h)
178
but what led him to commit murder at Brown is still unknown.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (3nLb4)
Because the fact it's Hannukah and the classroom was some kind of Jewish Studies class is entirely not related, at all. We may never know.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (3nLb4)
Because the fact it's Hannukah and the classroom was some kind of Jewish Studies class is entirely not related, at all. We may never know.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (dznca)
179
I have an AR and a shotgun sitting arms length. If a situation arises that I need to check I'm taking the shotgun.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM
Yay! The Shotgun versus AR-15 debate! Short range! Limited capacity! Overpenetration with "green tip" ammo indoors! Excessive recoil! Less filling! Tastes great!
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM
Yay! The Shotgun versus AR-15 debate! Short range! Limited capacity! Overpenetration with "green tip" ammo indoors! Excessive recoil! Less filling! Tastes great!
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (4mmkh)
180
OK, I am back...(dinner has been served)...I have shot an AR-15 once, but never a shotgun...I am very interested in shooting both, AND learning how both work and how to clean them. I can't own something that I don't understand how it works, and can't clean myself.
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (IQ6Gq)
181
My limits experience with a shotgun resulted in a sore shoulder.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (t/2Uw)
Sharon, did you shoot my Benelli M4? That's the softest recoiling shotgun I've ever fired. The Remington 870s and Winchester Model 12's I fired in the service really punched you in the shoulder when you fired GI 00 buckshot.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (t/2Uw)
Sharon, did you shoot my Benelli M4? That's the softest recoiling shotgun I've ever fired. The Remington 870s and Winchester Model 12's I fired in the service really punched you in the shoulder when you fired GI 00 buckshot.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:31 PM (BCwQW)
182
Follow on to comment 173 ...
I use those same lubed wads under the bullets when loading black powder cartridges for 38 specials, 45 Colt, and 45-70.
I use those same lubed wads under the bullets when loading black powder cartridges for 38 specials, 45 Colt, and 45-70.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 08:31 PM (yTvNw)
183
ARs are a hoot to shoot.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
They are indeed!
I think they are designed extremely well in terms of their ergonomics. That helps tremendously with newer shooters.
[And older shooters too!]
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
They are indeed!
I think they are designed extremely well in terms of their ergonomics. That helps tremendously with newer shooters.
[And older shooters too!]
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 14, 2025 08:32 PM (n9ltV)
184
A survey, Who here has fired on persons doing a B&E?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:32 PM (sDNVV)
185
169 Beretta and Benelli also made good firearms (and some lousy ones) along the way despite the general attitude toward Italian manufacturing. -
Italians make beautiful things: hats, suits, cars and guns (and actresses, too).
I only have a couple of Beretta pistols: an 81 Cheetah in .32 ACP, and an 84F in .380. Both are police surplus (the latter was, I believe, imported into the U.S. from Israel). They function very well, and they just look so elegant.
Italians make beautiful things: hats, suits, cars and guns (and actresses, too).
I only have a couple of Beretta pistols: an 81 Cheetah in .32 ACP, and an 84F in .380. Both are police surplus (the latter was, I believe, imported into the U.S. from Israel). They function very well, and they just look so elegant.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:33 PM (2L+MU)
186
You don’t want to be pulling out a shotgun or an AR in a high stress situation, having not been to the range in 6 months.
Practice practice, practice, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:27 PM
A couple of months ago I saw a "Police Pursuits" video where the cops were surrounding a stopped car. One of the cops was covering the car with his AR. Too bad he had forgotten to put a magazine in it.
Practice practice, practice, fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:27 PM
A couple of months ago I saw a "Police Pursuits" video where the cops were surrounding a stopped car. One of the cops was covering the car with his AR. Too bad he had forgotten to put a magazine in it.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:33 PM (4mmkh)
187
I only have a couple of Beretta pistols: an 81 Cheetah in .32 ACP, and an 84F in .380. Both are police surplus (the latter was, I believe, imported into the U.S. from Israel). They function very well, and they just look so elegant.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:33 PM (2L+MU)
I like the fact that Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in business. Since the 1500s!
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:33 PM (2L+MU)
I like the fact that Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in business. Since the 1500s!
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:35 PM (RoO7G)
188
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (IQ6Gq)
Grateful, I'll be happy to lend you examples of both to try if you want.
Grateful, I'll be happy to lend you examples of both to try if you want.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:36 PM (BCwQW)
189
184 A survey, Who here has fired on persons doing a B&E? - Ben Had
Closest I ever came was when I was renting a condo in Miami from a friend. A couple of hours after I went to bed, I woke up for some reason, and noticed what I took to be a shadowy figure moving by the door. I slowly reached over to the night table, took my Ruger Police Service Six in hand - and, at the last second, noticed that I was getting ready to shoot my pants (I had washed them and thrown them over the door to dry, and a floor fan was making the legs move).
So, I guess that's a long way of saying, no, I haven't fired at anybody in a B&E situation.
Closest I ever came was when I was renting a condo in Miami from a friend. A couple of hours after I went to bed, I woke up for some reason, and noticed what I took to be a shadowy figure moving by the door. I slowly reached over to the night table, took my Ruger Police Service Six in hand - and, at the last second, noticed that I was getting ready to shoot my pants (I had washed them and thrown them over the door to dry, and a floor fan was making the legs move).
So, I guess that's a long way of saying, no, I haven't fired at anybody in a B&E situation.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:40 PM (2L+MU)
190
Question. Remember a few weeks ago, we were talking about the rubber bullets to be used with primer only and someone posted a link? Anybody remember where that was?
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:40 PM (3nLb4)
191
Ed, maybe? Probably? The only one that I remember vividly is one of Blastr's that put a bruise on my bicep.For the most part I have not had a problem with recoil long range shooting. I like the stability of having something nestled into my shoulder.. it is why the first gun I fell in love with was a 22 pump action that I could shoot standing up.But I am always open to new experiences as you well know and always willing to try something new.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 08:41 PM (t/2Uw)
192
@146 OK, the CNN 'expert' is scandalously confused about laser sights. But I happen to notice, a whole bunch of the critics making fun of him confuse laser sights with red dot sights, and they sure are not the same thing at all. So there is some half-cocking going on across the board.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 14, 2025 08:41 PM (zdLoL)
193
Paco,hahahaha
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:41 PM (sDNVV)
194
Years ago I read a recommendation on the best shotgun for home defense. Get a 20 gauge autoloader.
20 gauge, for less recoil. Autoloader, so you don't have to remember to pump it for a second shot.
Plus load it with ammo from a box that has pictures of doves and bunnies on it, to ward off after-action accusations that you are a bloody-thirsty Rambo type.
20 gauge, for less recoil. Autoloader, so you don't have to remember to pump it for a second shot.
Plus load it with ammo from a box that has pictures of doves and bunnies on it, to ward off after-action accusations that you are a bloody-thirsty Rambo type.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (4mmkh)
195
but what led him to commit murder at Brown is still unknown.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (3nLb4)
Because the fact it's Hannukah and the classroom was some kind of Jewish Studies class is entirely not related, at all. We may never know.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (dznca)
Leftism, Furry-ism, and tranny-ism are all mental illnesses. As is islam.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 08:16 PM (3nLb4)
Because the fact it's Hannukah and the classroom was some kind of Jewish Studies class is entirely not related, at all. We may never know.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (dznca)
Leftism, Furry-ism, and tranny-ism are all mental illnesses. As is islam.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (npFr7)
196
187 I like the fact that Beretta is the oldest firearms maker in business. Since the 1500s! - blaster
It would be nice to have something from those days to take out to the range; would be quite a conversation piece!
It would be nice to have something from those days to take out to the range; would be quite a conversation piece!
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (2L+MU)
197
188 Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:30 PM (IQ6Gq)
Grateful, I'll be happy to lend you examples of both to try if you want.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:36 PM (BCwQW)
12 ga pump is quite brutal. It bruises MY shoulder. Not that I am some kind of tough guy but I know what to expect.
The M4 Benelli as Ed says is much easier to shoot. Semi-auto action takes up a lot of the recoil.
Grateful, I'll be happy to lend you examples of both to try if you want.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:36 PM (BCwQW)
12 ga pump is quite brutal. It bruises MY shoulder. Not that I am some kind of tough guy but I know what to expect.
The M4 Benelli as Ed says is much easier to shoot. Semi-auto action takes up a lot of the recoil.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (RoO7G)
198
184 A survey, Who here has fired on persons doing a B&E?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:32 PM (sDNVV)
Ben Had, I have not had the “opportunity”. It may have something to do with my driveway signage: “If you can read this sign, you are in range.”
But seriously, when you had your incident, did you shoot to dissuade, or to stop?
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:32 PM (sDNVV)
Ben Had, I have not had the “opportunity”. It may have something to do with my driveway signage: “If you can read this sign, you are in range.”
But seriously, when you had your incident, did you shoot to dissuade, or to stop?
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:43 PM (bxySM)
199
Handguns are good for handgun stuff. Rifles are good for rifle stuff. Shotguns are good for shotgun stuff.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:44 PM (+OnsA)
200
Aaaaannnd my power went out.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:45 PM (jH5TK)
201
180 ... ".I have shot an AR-15 once, but never a shotgun...I am very interested in shooting both, AND learning how both work and how to clean them. I can't own something that I don't understand how it works, and can't clean myself."
Grateful,
A suggestion. Unless you need a twelve gauge for a specific purpose, look at a twenty gauge. The mechanics and cleaning are the same for both but the twenty is a lighter load with a lot less recoil. And if it would be for sport, like trap or skeet, consider a recoil pad on the butt of the gun or as part of a shooting vest. Makes things a lot more comfortable.
Grateful,
A suggestion. Unless you need a twelve gauge for a specific purpose, look at a twenty gauge. The mechanics and cleaning are the same for both but the twenty is a lighter load with a lot less recoil. And if it would be for sport, like trap or skeet, consider a recoil pad on the butt of the gun or as part of a shooting vest. Makes things a lot more comfortable.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 08:45 PM (yTvNw)
202
194 Years ago I read a recommendation on the best shotgun for home defense. Get a 20 gauge autoloader.
20 gauge, for less recoil. Autoloader, so you don't have to remember to pump it for a second shot.
Plus load it with ammo from a box that has pictures of doves and bunnies on it, to ward off after-action accusations that you are a bloody-thirsty Rambo type.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
======
Only if you maintain them. Pump actions function with little maintenance; same is not true for semi autos designed for sporting uses. The recoil inertia Benelli system though works but you don't get the recoil assistance. So does Browning's long action in his Auto 5 design, but again, changes the impulse of the recoil rather than reducing it and you have to set the friction rings correctly for whatever load you fire.
20 gauge, for less recoil. Autoloader, so you don't have to remember to pump it for a second shot.
Plus load it with ammo from a box that has pictures of doves and bunnies on it, to ward off after-action accusations that you are a bloody-thirsty Rambo type.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
======
Only if you maintain them. Pump actions function with little maintenance; same is not true for semi autos designed for sporting uses. The recoil inertia Benelli system though works but you don't get the recoil assistance. So does Browning's long action in his Auto 5 design, but again, changes the impulse of the recoil rather than reducing it and you have to set the friction rings correctly for whatever load you fire.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:45 PM (WDjG6)
203
Mentioned last week that a couple of new gubs followed me home...
My first ever 9mm - full size Echelon w/green dot. Fits my clunky mitts very well, and it is a real joy to shoot. Cleaned and oiled, then put about 100 rounds downrange. Stripped, cleaned, oiled again... I'll need more practice.
My first ever 9mm - full size Echelon w/green dot. Fits my clunky mitts very well, and it is a real joy to shoot. Cleaned and oiled, then put about 100 rounds downrange. Stripped, cleaned, oiled again... I'll need more practice.
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 08:46 PM (XuXeR)
204
199 Handguns are good for handgun stuff. Rifles are good for rifle stuff. Shotguns are good for shotgun stuff.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:44 PM (+OnsA)
There is lead in weasel's words.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:44 PM (+OnsA)
There is lead in weasel's words.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:46 PM (RoO7G)
205
RI Red, I shot to let them know that this wasn't an easy target. My attorney friend met up with them after the incident and they mentioned being fired upon. Scared them shitless.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:46 PM (sDNVV)
206
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at December 14, 2025 08:41 PM (t/2Uw)
I think it was at ESS before they closed. I remember SRA Blaster mag dumping five rounds downrange with that Benelli M4 and hammering the target w/ all of those rounds (slugs). So these weren't wimpy birdshot loads. SRA Blaster said the Benelli was the only shotgun she felt comfortable with.
I think it was at ESS before they closed. I remember SRA Blaster mag dumping five rounds downrange with that Benelli M4 and hammering the target w/ all of those rounds (slugs). So these weren't wimpy birdshot loads. SRA Blaster said the Benelli was the only shotgun she felt comfortable with.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (BCwQW)
207
From NY Post about the psychopath who committed murder at Brown University.
"A revolver — and a small handgun equipped with a special laser light — were found in Erickson’s hotel room, according to sources and CNN. Sources told The Post that the unique laser light on his handgun helped lead them to the person of interest."
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
"A revolver — and a small handgun equipped with a special laser light — were found in Erickson’s hotel room, according to sources and CNN. Sources told The Post that the unique laser light on his handgun helped lead them to the person of interest."
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (uv8gn)
208
201/ We need to meet in the new year to have a chat, if you are willing...
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:48 PM (IQ6Gq)
209
I think it was at ESS before they closed. I remember SRA Blaster mag dumping five rounds downrange with that Benelli M4 and hammering the target w/ all of those rounds (slugs). So these weren't wimpy birdshot loads. SRA Blaster said the Benelli was the only shotgun she felt comfortable with.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (BCwQW)
The M590 we only have one of. There's a reason for that.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (BCwQW)
The M590 we only have one of. There's a reason for that.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:48 PM (RoO7G)
210
Handguns are good for handgun stuff. Rifles are good for rifle stuff. Shotguns are good for shotgun stuff.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:44 PM
^^^ This is wisdom.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:44 PM
^^^ This is wisdom.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 08:48 PM (Wnv9h)
211
A suggestion. Unless you need a twelve gauge for a specific purpose, look at a twenty gauge. The mechanics and cleaning are the same for both but the twenty is a lighter load with a lot less recoil. And if it would be for sport, like trap or skeet, consider a recoil pad on the butt of the gun or as part of a shooting vest. Makes things a lot more comfortable.
Posted by: JTB
======
A 20 gauge in a youth stock is about right if you have body armor at home or use a Past recoil pad shield jobbie in the field over your clothes. Plus easier to have one shotgun for the whole household including youths and females.
FWIW, a 20 gauge is equivalent in ft lbs of two 44 Magnum rounds going off at the same time.
Posted by: JTB
======
A 20 gauge in a youth stock is about right if you have body armor at home or use a Past recoil pad shield jobbie in the field over your clothes. Plus easier to have one shotgun for the whole household including youths and females.
FWIW, a 20 gauge is equivalent in ft lbs of two 44 Magnum rounds going off at the same time.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:49 PM (WDjG6)
212
It would be nice to have something from those days to take out to the range; would be quite a conversation piece!
Posted by: Paco
=======
A lighted slow match (match lock) or a wheel lock throwing off sparks would get you attention for sure.
But ouch, those stocks are not exactly ergonomic.
Posted by: Paco
=======
A lighted slow match (match lock) or a wheel lock throwing off sparks would get you attention for sure.
But ouch, those stocks are not exactly ergonomic.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:51 PM (WDjG6)
213
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
========
Most are green or red, but spitballing, maybe blue?
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
========
Most are green or red, but spitballing, maybe blue?
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (WDjG6)
214
RI Red, honestly the 3 180 lb Wolfhounds try ing to eat them probably scared them more than anything .
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (sDNVV)
215
I seriously need an ammo and rifles for dummies book.....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq)
216
This is my “general” point. As soon as shotguns are mentioned, recoil avoidance comes up. With an AR it is not an issue.
It’s the old question: If I could have only one gun?
I think the AR fits the bill. Future battles are more likely to be dominated by ARs, not shotguns. Hence my admonition that every patriot own one and get real comfortable with it.
Luckily, this is the U S of A and I “may” have more than one firearm.
It’s the old question: If I could have only one gun?
I think the AR fits the bill. Future battles are more likely to be dominated by ARs, not shotguns. Hence my admonition that every patriot own one and get real comfortable with it.
Luckily, this is the U S of A and I “may” have more than one firearm.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:54 PM (bxySM)
217
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (uv8gn)
Are we talking a laser that is co-witnessed to the barrel, so the bullet hits whatever the laser is illuminating?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:47 PM (uv8gn)
Are we talking a laser that is co-witnessed to the barrel, so the bullet hits whatever the laser is illuminating?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (npFr7)
218
Maybe CNN and the cops are talking out their ass.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (zZu0s)
219
200 Aaaaannnd my power went out.
Posted by: Weasel
Mine will prolly do that in the next 24 hours. Ground is saturated, more rain coming and some nasty south wind. Douglass Fir trees have a shallow root base and blow over pretty easy.
Posted by: Weasel
Mine will prolly do that in the next 24 hours. Ground is saturated, more rain coming and some nasty south wind. Douglass Fir trees have a shallow root base and blow over pretty easy.
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (mT+6a)
220
215 I seriously need an ammo and rifles for dummies book.....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq)
I can start sending you links for ARs again...
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq)
I can start sending you links for ARs again...
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 08:56 PM (RoO7G)
221
So, I guess that's a long way of saying, no, I haven't fired at anybody in a B&E situation.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:40 PM (2L+MU)
But, it IS so danged close to the "I shot an elephant in my pajamas" joke....
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:40 PM (2L+MU)
But, it IS so danged close to the "I shot an elephant in my pajamas" joke....
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (dznca)
222
Are we talking a laser that is co-witnessed to the barrel, so the bullet hits whatever the laser is illuminating?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
The NY Post reported it was on his handgun - it would seem this is case.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
The NY Post reported it was on his handgun - it would seem this is case.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (uv8gn)
223
Maybe CNN and the cops are talking out their ass.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (zZu0s)
Talk about shit that never happens, right?
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (zZu0s)
Talk about shit that never happens, right?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (npFr7)
224
Laser guided bullets kill more people each year than 14 giraffes.
Posted by: A expert at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (vFG9F)
225
Posted by: nurse ratched at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (mT+6a)
----
Fortunately it's back on now! The wind is gusting to 35mph (and the windchill is about a bazillion below zero) and all sorts of branches are coming down.
----
Fortunately it's back on now! The wind is gusting to 35mph (and the windchill is about a bazillion below zero) and all sorts of branches are coming down.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (+OnsA)
226
To be clear, I understand what everyone is saying about recoil...at this time, that is not my primary concern. I really don't know the differences and how each works...I need to experience each for myself and then understand how each works. I am in the "embrace the 'and'" camp in learning and then decide (If I have to. If not, simply embrace the "and")
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:58 PM (IQ6Gq)
227
Yes. To the untrained eye, organic tree farming looks like sitting around and goofing off and smoking cigars.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (vt7xw)
If you are harvesting for lumber, there is also side-pruning, marking and thinning to avoid losing trees, and of course road and culvert maintenance.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 07:59 PM (vt7xw)
If you are harvesting for lumber, there is also side-pruning, marking and thinning to avoid losing trees, and of course road and culvert maintenance.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 08:59 PM (rbvCR)
228
A friend's house/farm is being taken over by great Pyrenees puppies. They rescued a boy and gal. They waffled because they did not know about breeding them. Evidently the dogs decided for them because the gal has had a couple litters. 14 puppies, cute as can be that will get to the size of small ponies.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:59 PM (zZu0s)
229
For anyone shooting long arms that recoil a lot--use a recoil pad over clothing or at least something like the padded Marine shooting jacket design especially when bench shooting as it accentuates recoil.
Long chains of shotgun fire or hard recoiling rifle rounds will wear you down affecting accuray even more so with heavy buck or slug loads.
PAST makes some rigs that fit over the clothes and you can also get some shooting jackets that have a pocket for a gel recoil absorbing insert.
Re handguns,
For hand protection, shooting gloves with padded inserts can let shoot longer without pain. Those without fingers are useful as you can retain better trigger feel with those.
Long chains of shotgun fire or hard recoiling rifle rounds will wear you down affecting accuray even more so with heavy buck or slug loads.
PAST makes some rigs that fit over the clothes and you can also get some shooting jackets that have a pocket for a gel recoil absorbing insert.
Re handguns,
For hand protection, shooting gloves with padded inserts can let shoot longer without pain. Those without fingers are useful as you can retain better trigger feel with those.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:00 PM (WDjG6)
230
To be clear, I understand what everyone is saying about recoil...at this time, that is not my primary concern. I really don't know the differences and how each works...I need to experience each for myself and then understand how each works. I am in the "embrace the 'and'" camp in learning and then decide (If I have to. If not, simply embrace the "and")
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:58 PM
Knowing how your weapon works is important. Fortunately, the AR is a relatively simple platform to explain. Come to NH. We'll get you trained up.
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:58 PM
Knowing how your weapon works is important. Fortunately, the AR is a relatively simple platform to explain. Come to NH. We'll get you trained up.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 09:00 PM (Wnv9h)
231
The Grateful, the recoil.from a 20 ga is not going to bother you at all.
Posted by: Ben Had at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (sDNVV)
232
Evidently the dogs decided for them because the gal has had a couple litters. 14 puppies, cute as can be that will get to the size of small ponies.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:59 PM (zZu0s)
Sooner or later, they will figure out what causes it...
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:59 PM (zZu0s)
Sooner or later, they will figure out what causes it...
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (npFr7)
233
Laser guided bullets kill more people each year than 14 giraffes.
Posted by: A expert at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (vFG9F)
No shit.
-Tom Selleck in Runaway
Posted by: A expert at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (vFG9F)
No shit.
-Tom Selleck in Runaway
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (zZu0s)
234
220/ Will sending me links for ARs teach me the differences in an elementary manner? If so, fine. If not, I'd prefer to learn first, buy later...
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (IQ6Gq)
235
It would be nice to have something from those days to take out to the range; would be quite a conversation piece!
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (2L+MU)
---
That's a theme of my waterlogged collecting: when you bring it to the range, do people notice? Is it just another tricked-out AR or *gasp* a Glock?
It's nice to haul out something oddball and archaic, like a Mauser Kar98 with all the markings in Chinese or perhaps a Mauser Broomhandle.
Broomhandles are fun to shoot.
Posted by: Paco at December 14, 2025 08:42 PM (2L+MU)
---
That's a theme of my waterlogged collecting: when you bring it to the range, do people notice? Is it just another tricked-out AR or *gasp* a Glock?
It's nice to haul out something oddball and archaic, like a Mauser Kar98 with all the markings in Chinese or perhaps a Mauser Broomhandle.
Broomhandles are fun to shoot.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (ZOv7s)
236
consider a recoil pad on the butt of the gun or as part of a shooting vest.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 08:45 PM (yTvNw)
They also make pads that you can strap to your shoulder. Midway USA is where I bought mine (that I forgot to bring to Corsicana).
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 08:45 PM (yTvNw)
They also make pads that you can strap to your shoulder. Midway USA is where I bought mine (that I forgot to bring to Corsicana).
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (dznca)
237
208 ... "We need to meet in the new year to have a chat, if you are willing..."
Mrs. JTB and I would love to. I just ask that conditions are dry. I don't do slippery anymore.
Mrs. JTB and I would love to. I just ask that conditions are dry. I don't do slippery anymore.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (yTvNw)
238
The NY Post reported it was on his handgun - it would seem this is case.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (uv8gn)
10-15 years ago, there was a company (Crimson Trace?) that sold lasers embedded in the grips of a handgun. They had lasers in the grips for a variety of handguns. Now, with Picatinny rail mounts as a standard on handguns, lights and lasers are more commonly found under the barrel on the frame. Unless I see a picture of the firearm, it could be in a couple of different places on the pistol.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (uv8gn)
10-15 years ago, there was a company (Crimson Trace?) that sold lasers embedded in the grips of a handgun. They had lasers in the grips for a variety of handguns. Now, with Picatinny rail mounts as a standard on handguns, lights and lasers are more commonly found under the barrel on the frame. Unless I see a picture of the firearm, it could be in a couple of different places on the pistol.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (BCwQW)
239
The NY Post reported it was on his handgun - it would seem this is case.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (uv8gn)
---
This detail was included to make everyone think of the bar seen in Terminator.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 08:57 PM (uv8gn)
---
This detail was included to make everyone think of the bar seen in Terminator.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:03 PM (ZOv7s)
240
Will sending me links for ARs teach me the differences in an elementary manner?
Go to youtube, type in "ar-15 basics" and take your pick of where to start.
Go to youtube, type in "ar-15 basics" and take your pick of where to start.
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 09:03 PM (3nLb4)
241
230/ Thanks RMBS. Just let me know when and I'll be there.
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:03 PM (IQ6Gq)
242
Sooner or later, they will figure out what causes it...
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (npFr7)
They are trying to sell, them, she just keeps wanting to keep one from each litter. Then she complained that she was going through 100lbs of food every 5 days with their other dogs. I want to tell her to breed chihuahuas. Or maybe corgis.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (npFr7)
They are trying to sell, them, she just keeps wanting to keep one from each litter. Then she complained that she was going through 100lbs of food every 5 days with their other dogs. I want to tell her to breed chihuahuas. Or maybe corgis.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 09:03 PM (zZu0s)
243
215 I seriously need an ammo and rifles for dummies book.....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq
Grateful, I did a “Bangsticks for Beginners” over on my site early this year. I’m thinking an “ARs for Aspiring RiflePyrsyns” might be in order.
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq
Grateful, I did a “Bangsticks for Beginners” over on my site early this year. I’m thinking an “ARs for Aspiring RiflePyrsyns” might be in order.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 09:03 PM (bxySM)
244
237/ Your conditions are more than reasonable. Thanks!
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (IQ6Gq)
245
It's nice to haul out something oddball and archaic, like a Mauser Kar98 with all the markings in Chinese or perhaps a Mauser Broomhandle.
Broomhandles are fun to shoot.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (ZOv7s)
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Broomhandles are fun to shoot.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (ZOv7s)
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
246
243/ I need to make your site a regular visit....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (IQ6Gq)
247
If anyone is interested, that video is an impressive example of the benefits of using sabot rounds.
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (HlyYF)
That was actually the new 6.5x25 round with a tungsten sabot, which IIANM is a Swedish innovation using a necked down Tokarev round.
That it can go through 1/3" armor is impressive. Tokarev's were pretty good at penetration at 7.62
I like the idea, but I was surprised it worked in a Glock, I thought it would need a locking breech like a CZ-52
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 08:22 PM (HlyYF)
That was actually the new 6.5x25 round with a tungsten sabot, which IIANM is a Swedish innovation using a necked down Tokarev round.
That it can go through 1/3" armor is impressive. Tokarev's were pretty good at penetration at 7.62
I like the idea, but I was surprised it worked in a Glock, I thought it would need a locking breech like a CZ-52
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (rbvCR)
248
-Tom Selleck in Runaway
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (zZu0s)
Not to turn this into a movie thread but why doesn’t that movie get more run? From what I remember that was some decent sci-fi.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (zZu0s)
Not to turn this into a movie thread but why doesn’t that movie get more run? From what I remember that was some decent sci-fi.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (4786I)
249
Maybe CNN and the cops are talking out their ass.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (zZu0s)
I probably speak for everyone here when I say, "What? CNN? Talk out their ass? C'mon, man."
(It's also the only way you can talk with your head that far up your fourth point of contact.)
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 08:55 PM (zZu0s)
I probably speak for everyone here when I say, "What? CNN? Talk out their ass? C'mon, man."
(It's also the only way you can talk with your head that far up your fourth point of contact.)
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:07 PM (dznca)
250
Grateful, IMO, AR's are easier to customize for your preferences. Most traditional shotguns (exceptions: Benelli M4, Beretta 1301 are examples) are "take it or leave it as is."
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:07 PM (BCwQW)
251
226 To be clear, I understand what everyone is saying about recoil...at this time, that is not my primary concern. I really don't know the differences and how each works...I need to experience each for myself and then understand how each works. I am in the "embrace the 'and'" camp in learning and then decide (If I have to. If not, simply embrace the "and")
Posted by: The Grateful
===
Two things, to get good with a shotgun, even at short distance requires practice and effective self defense loads (buckshot or slugs) not birdshot A gas operated shotgun like a Remington 1100/1187 classic or newer models will recoil a bit less than a pump action, Inertial types don't very much but they do have a different recoil feel.
For the most part, a bigger heavier person can resist the recoil of a shotgun better even if improperly shouldered. A smaller person has to use perfect technique and it is best to actually be standing when shooting and leaning forward as a shoulder muscle (trap from memory but dunno) slides up to form a pocket. That is where you want to shoulder the rifle or shotgun.
Same for youths. Overall a 20 gauge is probably the easiest for most women or youths.
Posted by: The Grateful
===
Two things, to get good with a shotgun, even at short distance requires practice and effective self defense loads (buckshot or slugs) not birdshot A gas operated shotgun like a Remington 1100/1187 classic or newer models will recoil a bit less than a pump action, Inertial types don't very much but they do have a different recoil feel.
For the most part, a bigger heavier person can resist the recoil of a shotgun better even if improperly shouldered. A smaller person has to use perfect technique and it is best to actually be standing when shooting and leaning forward as a shoulder muscle (trap from memory but dunno) slides up to form a pocket. That is where you want to shoulder the rifle or shotgun.
Same for youths. Overall a 20 gauge is probably the easiest for most women or youths.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:07 PM (WDjG6)
252
Re: 20 ga for home defense. Why not a short barrel 410? Minimal recoil and at short distances they should be pretty effective. Plus if you live in an apartment you lessen the chances of unintended consequences. Thoughts?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 09:08 PM (uv8gn)
253
Ed, I wonder - are the professionals (heh) describing a laser or a red dot?
Based on what our esteemed leadership class has uttered over the years, I'm waiting for it to be a full auto AR Glock with LASER "lights"
Based on what our esteemed leadership class has uttered over the years, I'm waiting for it to be a full auto AR Glock with LASER "lights"
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:08 PM (XuXeR)
Posted by: Debunked at December 14, 2025 09:09 PM (dznca)
255
10-15 years ago, there was a company (Crimson Trace?) that sold lasers embedded in the grips of a handgun. They had lasers in the grips for a variety of handguns. Now, with Picatinny rail mounts as a standard on handguns, lights and lasers are more commonly found under the barrel on the frame. Unless I see a picture of the firearm, it could be in a couple of different places on the pistol.
Posted by: Ed L
Yep. Both they and Lasermax sold them for revolvers and some semi autos. Lasermax also had a laser recoil guide designed to replace the OEM one for some semi autos without picatinny rails. CT still makes laser grips for revolvers I think but not sure if Lasermax is still around or not.
CT is now owned by Smith and Wesson fwiw and got into red dot sights too.
Posted by: Ed L
Yep. Both they and Lasermax sold them for revolvers and some semi autos. Lasermax also had a laser recoil guide designed to replace the OEM one for some semi autos without picatinny rails. CT still makes laser grips for revolvers I think but not sure if Lasermax is still around or not.
CT is now owned by Smith and Wesson fwiw and got into red dot sights too.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:10 PM (WDjG6)
256
I have a laser-reinforced level.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 14, 2025 09:10 PM (XeU6L)
257
From what I remember that was some decent sci-fi.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (4786I)
I figure it would probably be excruciatingly bad. I remember enough 'robotics' and future stuff to have that general sense.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (4786I)
I figure it would probably be excruciatingly bad. I remember enough 'robotics' and future stuff to have that general sense.
Posted by: Aetius451AD work phone at December 14, 2025 09:10 PM (zZu0s)
258
That was actually the new 6.5x25 round with a tungsten sabot, which IIANM is a Swedish innovation using a necked down Tokarev round.
That it can go through 1/3" armor is impressive. Tokarev's were pretty good at penetration at 7.62
I like the idea, but I was surprised it worked in a Glock, I thought it would need a locking breech like a CZ-52
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (rbvCR)
Are we talking about tungsten metal, or tungsten carbide penetrators here? Tungsten carbide is very, very hard, and also very dense.
That it can go through 1/3" armor is impressive. Tokarev's were pretty good at penetration at 7.62
I like the idea, but I was surprised it worked in a Glock, I thought it would need a locking breech like a CZ-52
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (rbvCR)
Are we talking about tungsten metal, or tungsten carbide penetrators here? Tungsten carbide is very, very hard, and also very dense.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:10 PM (npFr7)
259
234 220/ Will sending me links for ARs teach me the differences in an elementary manner? If so, fine. If not, I'd prefer to learn first, buy later...
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (IQ6Gq)
Well that's kind of like cheating....
So the dinner we need to have can follow a range trip with an array of ARs.
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:01 PM (IQ6Gq)
Well that's kind of like cheating....
So the dinner we need to have can follow a range trip with an array of ARs.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:10 PM (RoO7G)
260
Pretty cool video on piston rings. Perfect circle rings are still around, but are sold under the Mahle name, or are part of Mahle. Don't see them used on harleys though, usually Hastings. A lot of work to make a frigging ring, but it shows. The consistency is pretty amazing really. Every time I check a set they are always the same size out of the box. They all hover around .014 end gap when checked in the cylinder. Right where they need to be for a 3 1/2 " bore.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 14, 2025 09:11 PM (snZF9)
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:11 PM (XuXeR)
262
Last time I had red dots, turned out to be hives.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (XeU6L)
263
Meanwhile, Palmetto State Armory is having a Christmas special on a Turkish 1911 at almost stocking stuffer prices.
5 inch barrel. Steel frame. Beavertail safety. Ambi safety. Big sights. "Bobcat" bevel on the butt. Made by Tisas.
$350 before shipping, tax, etc.
https://tinyurl.com/52k5safh
5 inch barrel. Steel frame. Beavertail safety. Ambi safety. Big sights. "Bobcat" bevel on the butt. Made by Tisas.
$350 before shipping, tax, etc.
https://tinyurl.com/52k5safh
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (4mmkh)
264
Based on what our esteemed leadership class has uttered over the years, I'm waiting for it to be a full auto AR Glock with LASER "lights"
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:08 PM (XuXeR)
I'm willing to wait for more info to get released by the cops. I learned a while back that if the talking heads are talking about a "mule," they could be trying (and failing) to describe just about any critter with four legs because they don't know what they're talking about.
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:08 PM (XuXeR)
I'm willing to wait for more info to get released by the cops. I learned a while back that if the talking heads are talking about a "mule," they could be trying (and failing) to describe just about any critter with four legs because they don't know what they're talking about.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (BCwQW)
265
10-15 years ago, there was a company (Crimson Trace?) that sold lasers embedded in the grips of a handgun.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (BCwQW)
They still do.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (BCwQW)
They still do.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (dznca)
266
ARs are a hoot to shoot.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
6 pounds of Viagra.
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 08:19 PM (bxySM)
6 pounds of Viagra.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (snZF9)
267
I think I can help further confuse the obfuscation going on here!
Because, for "patrolling the property," there's a fourth choice between handgun, rifle and shotgun, that being the pistol-based carbine. They're easy to use, cheaper than a full power rifle, more accurate than a pistol, don't kick like a shotgun, and are easier to handle in doors and hallways than long guns.
I have, well, a selection of good weaponry available, yet still keep a shortish 9mm carbine (with a cheap laser sight) as the "door gun," something I can get to quickly for flipping on the lights in the side yard. This may be its only good use, but it's good at it.
Because, for "patrolling the property," there's a fourth choice between handgun, rifle and shotgun, that being the pistol-based carbine. They're easy to use, cheaper than a full power rifle, more accurate than a pistol, don't kick like a shotgun, and are easier to handle in doors and hallways than long guns.
I have, well, a selection of good weaponry available, yet still keep a shortish 9mm carbine (with a cheap laser sight) as the "door gun," something I can get to quickly for flipping on the lights in the side yard. This may be its only good use, but it's good at it.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (zdLoL)
268
261 Tungsten carbide is very, very hard, and also very dense."
So is the average journalist
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:11 PM (XuXeR)
No they never told us what was real, iron and coke, chromium steel...
So is the average journalist
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 09:11 PM (XuXeR)
No they never told us what was real, iron and coke, chromium steel...
Posted by: Eromero at December 14, 2025 09:14 PM (LHPAg)
269
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
---
No, in the 1890s revolvers were still favored and by the time the US is looking at a new sidearm, they want a big, beefy horse-killing caliber, not a .30 caliber magnum.
Both the US and UK were biased on the side of bigger holes an opposed to higher velocity.
Fun fact: the velocity of a 7.63mm Mauser cartridge fired by the full 5.9 inch barrel is almost exactly the same as that of a 7.62mm Tokarev fired out of the pistol of the same name. Tokarev ammo is spicier, and not safe for a Broomhandle, so it's interesting that they wanted the same velocity with a shorter barrel. Also designed to run really well in SMGs.
Tokarevs are among the more punishing pistols to shoot.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
---
No, in the 1890s revolvers were still favored and by the time the US is looking at a new sidearm, they want a big, beefy horse-killing caliber, not a .30 caliber magnum.
Both the US and UK were biased on the side of bigger holes an opposed to higher velocity.
Fun fact: the velocity of a 7.63mm Mauser cartridge fired by the full 5.9 inch barrel is almost exactly the same as that of a 7.62mm Tokarev fired out of the pistol of the same name. Tokarev ammo is spicier, and not safe for a Broomhandle, so it's interesting that they wanted the same velocity with a shorter barrel. Also designed to run really well in SMGs.
Tokarevs are among the more punishing pistols to shoot.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:14 PM (ZOv7s)
270
252 Re: 20 ga for home defense. Why not a short barrel 410? Minimal recoil and at short distances they should be pretty effective. Plus if you live in an apartment you lessen the chances of unintended consequences. Thoughts?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
There is not a whole lot of difference between a 410 and a 20 gauge in felt recoil. My mother had a 410 Mossberg set up for self defense and I helped train her to shoot it. A 20 gauge though will have a better terminal effect than a 410 due to differences in the initial wound size (.62 inches versus .41). Recoil is about 10 ft lbs for a 410 defensive load and about 16 for a 20 gauge more or less.
410 is really more a specialist shotgun, not really a self defense. Same with 28 gauge and self defense loads for 16g are hard to come by.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
There is not a whole lot of difference between a 410 and a 20 gauge in felt recoil. My mother had a 410 Mossberg set up for self defense and I helped train her to shoot it. A 20 gauge though will have a better terminal effect than a 410 due to differences in the initial wound size (.62 inches versus .41). Recoil is about 10 ft lbs for a 410 defensive load and about 16 for a 20 gauge more or less.
410 is really more a specialist shotgun, not really a self defense. Same with 28 gauge and self defense loads for 16g are hard to come by.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:15 PM (WDjG6)
271
CNN - trustworthy expert reporting.
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
Maybe he forgot to turn it off, and the cops just followed the light right to him?
____
Last week on the gum thread, Weasel linked to a 1930s Buck Rogers movie. Took me most of the week to watch. It was only about 1h10m, but I could only watch it in chunks of about 10 to 15m. I had to do it like that because I was so dazzled by the impressive special effects and the powerful plot and fine acting. Same way I managed to get through that whole Avatar movie.🙄
So, I don't know if I can handle this week's Strange World of Planet X with the scary monsters!!
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
Maybe he forgot to turn it off, and the cops just followed the light right to him?
____
Last week on the gum thread, Weasel linked to a 1930s Buck Rogers movie. Took me most of the week to watch. It was only about 1h10m, but I could only watch it in chunks of about 10 to 15m. I had to do it like that because I was so dazzled by the impressive special effects and the powerful plot and fine acting. Same way I managed to get through that whole Avatar movie.🙄
So, I don't know if I can handle this week's Strange World of Planet X with the scary monsters!!
Posted by: mindful webworker - messing with Earth's magnetic field-- Bill Gates? at December 14, 2025 09:15 PM (lbDMw)
272
Not to turn this into a movie thread but why doesn’t that movie get more run? From what I remember that was some decent sci-fi.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (4786I)
---
Wow, forgot about that one. Never saw it back in the day, but it's now on my list.
Posted by: Cow Demon at December 14, 2025 09:06 PM (4786I)
---
Wow, forgot about that one. Never saw it back in the day, but it's now on my list.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:17 PM (ZOv7s)
273
Speaking of extremely affordable 1911s.
BattleHawk Armory is having a great sale:
https://tinyurl.com/axxy9rxp
That's just one.
BattleHawk Armory is having a great sale:
https://tinyurl.com/axxy9rxp
That's just one.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:18 PM (RoO7G)
274
410 is really more a specialist shotgun, not really a self defense. Same with 28 gauge and self defense loads for 16g are hard to come by.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:15 PM (WDjG6)
---
The Ishapore 410s can take the standard SMLE bayonet. You know, just in case.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:15 PM (WDjG6)
---
The Ishapore 410s can take the standard SMLE bayonet. You know, just in case.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:18 PM (ZOv7s)
275
Based on what our esteemed leadership class has uttered over the years, I'm waiting for it to be a full auto AR Glock with LASER "lights"
Posted by: man
-----
You left out 'assault rifle'.
Posted by: man
-----
You left out 'assault rifle'.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 14, 2025 09:18 PM (XeU6L)
276
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
----------
The Broomhandle was a fairly expensive firearm to make and semi auto was not really deemed useful to use in unclean environments. Revolvers were tried and true and we knew that the 45 Colt, even the shorter 45 Schofield could kill both man and horse, important in the days of calvary.
And, you also had to pass the Teddy R. test.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon
----------
The Broomhandle was a fairly expensive firearm to make and semi auto was not really deemed useful to use in unclean environments. Revolvers were tried and true and we knew that the 45 Colt, even the shorter 45 Schofield could kill both man and horse, important in the days of calvary.
And, you also had to pass the Teddy R. test.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM (WDjG6)
277
265 10-15 years ago, there was a company (Crimson Trace?) that sold lasers embedded in the grips of a handgun.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (BCwQW)
They still do.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (dznca)
Original Glock 17 in tupperware box in about 1982
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:02 PM (BCwQW)
They still do.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:13 PM (dznca)
Original Glock 17 in tupperware box in about 1982
Posted by: Eromero at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM (LHPAg)
278
That Perfect Circle video was fascinating to me! My last job was in the lab of a steel foundry and we did all the same types of QC testing. Neat to see the older techniques compared to the modern spectrometers etc we used. Biggest difference is we could do the chemical testing in real time so adjustments could be made before pouring into the molds, so you never wasted molds by pouring bad metal into them.
Good stuff Maynard!
Good stuff Maynard!
Posted by: Aawlberninf350 at December 14, 2025 09:21 PM (qjy/p)
279
From what I read on the Brown shooting the laser isn't the unique identifying aspect, is it?
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:21 PM (RoO7G)
280
The Mauser C96 broomhandle was my choice.
Posted by: Han Solo at December 14, 2025 09:21 PM (XeU6L)
281
OK all y'all. 9:22 thank you time.
Thank you!
Appreciate your being here tonight and participating and hope to see you again next Sunday!
Thank you!
Appreciate your being here tonight and participating and hope to see you again next Sunday!
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 09:22 PM (cIOlQ)
282
The Ishapore 410s can take the standard SMLE bayonet. You know, just in case.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
-----
You have to either hand load short 2.5" cases for the SMLE or ream the chamber out to 2.75-3.0 inches for commercial shells. And you get one shot. Fine for a prison guard, not so good if you need a second one in a hurry.
Some South American militaries did the same, sentries carried a one cartridge shot gun. Hard to use those to launch coups, etc. They locked up the rifles in bunkers sometimes even separating rifles and their bolts.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
-----
You have to either hand load short 2.5" cases for the SMLE or ream the chamber out to 2.75-3.0 inches for commercial shells. And you get one shot. Fine for a prison guard, not so good if you need a second one in a hurry.
Some South American militaries did the same, sentries carried a one cartridge shot gun. Hard to use those to launch coups, etc. They locked up the rifles in bunkers sometimes even separating rifles and their bolts.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:22 PM (WDjG6)
283
The Ishapore 410s can take the standard SMLE bayonet. You know, just in case.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
But of course. Why is this not a standard feature on all shotguns. lol.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
But of course. Why is this not a standard feature on all shotguns. lol.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 09:22 PM (uv8gn)
284
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
Because of the experience in the Philippines, it was determined that a.45 cartridge was best. There were a number of pistols entered, including a .45 Luger from Ludwig-Lowe, and of course the Colt-Browning and Savage. There were some smaller caliber pistols also, including some odd designs.
The .45 was decided on because it was the only bullet they found which would penetrate a horse's skull fired full on. This became much less important after WWI but that was not apparent at the time
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
Because of the experience in the Philippines, it was determined that a.45 cartridge was best. There were a number of pistols entered, including a .45 Luger from Ludwig-Lowe, and of course the Colt-Browning and Savage. There were some smaller caliber pistols also, including some odd designs.
The .45 was decided on because it was the only bullet they found which would penetrate a horse's skull fired full on. This became much less important after WWI but that was not apparent at the time
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:23 PM (rbvCR)
285
Going to wind it down. Have a busy day of retirement tomorrow.
Weasel, thx as always. Got any leads on Magic Beans or Shooting Crystals?
They should make good stocking stuffers!
Weasel, thx as always. Got any leads on Magic Beans or Shooting Crystals?
They should make good stocking stuffers!
Posted by: RI Red at December 14, 2025 09:24 PM (bxySM)
286
Which raises the question: was the Mauser Broomhandle considered in the quest by the U.S. Army to replace the inadequate .38 cal. revolver? It's my understanding that the 7 mm Mauser cartridge is quite powerful for its day. Winston Churchill was quite fond of the model.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
AOP, the US Army acquired at least one C96 and tested it from 1898-1903. The Army ended up rejecting the Mauser because the stocked pistol's performance was inferior to the Krag carbine, the number of jams or misfires during shooting test, and its high cost compared to the revolvers it would replace.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:05 PM (npFr7)
AOP, the US Army acquired at least one C96 and tested it from 1898-1903. The Army ended up rejecting the Mauser because the stocked pistol's performance was inferior to the Krag carbine, the number of jams or misfires during shooting test, and its high cost compared to the revolvers it would replace.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:24 PM (BCwQW)
287
The Broomhandle was a fairly expensive firearm to make and semi auto was not really deemed useful to use in unclean environments. Revolvers were tried and true and we knew that the 45 Colt, even the shorter 45 Schofield could kill both man and horse, important in the days of calvary.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM (WDjG6)
---
A surprising amount of features on the 1911 were imposed by the cavalry, which is kind of funny given how little time horses had left.
The Broomhandle was arguably the best handgun of its time, with 10 round capacity, rapid reload, and a powerful cartridge that was not unpleasant to shoot.
But it was expensive, and contracts for it were few, mostly small orders here and there. China loved them, and Spain made bank cranking out imitations that streamlined the design. Mine belonged to the KMT at some point, and came to the US during the great 80s junk sale, when China opened up the militia arsenals in a bid to raise foreign currency (sort of like Franco did 30 years before).
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM (WDjG6)
---
A surprising amount of features on the 1911 were imposed by the cavalry, which is kind of funny given how little time horses had left.
The Broomhandle was arguably the best handgun of its time, with 10 round capacity, rapid reload, and a powerful cartridge that was not unpleasant to shoot.
But it was expensive, and contracts for it were few, mostly small orders here and there. China loved them, and Spain made bank cranking out imitations that streamlined the design. Mine belonged to the KMT at some point, and came to the US during the great 80s junk sale, when China opened up the militia arsenals in a bid to raise foreign currency (sort of like Franco did 30 years before).
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:24 PM (ZOv7s)
288
I'm waiting for it to be a full auto AR Glock
Glock actually built a few ARs for some military trials. Going off off memory, they were for British Special Forces, and had a couple of minor Glock-proprietary features, such as a ambi magazine release. I saw it somewhere on EweTube.
Glock actually built a few ARs for some military trials. Going off off memory, they were for British Special Forces, and had a couple of minor Glock-proprietary features, such as a ambi magazine release. I saw it somewhere on EweTube.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 09:25 PM (4mmkh)
289
A survey, Who here has fired on persons doing a B&E?
Posted by: Ben Had
=====
Drew down on a pit bull while walking my dog but that is a different matter. Fortunately did not have to shoot the poor beastie.
Posted by: Ben Had
=====
Drew down on a pit bull while walking my dog but that is a different matter. Fortunately did not have to shoot the poor beastie.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (WDjG6)
290
Thanks for hosting, Weasel!
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (BCwQW)
291
Going to wind it down. Have a busy day of retirement tomorrow.
Weasel, thx as always. Got any leads on Magic Beans or Shooting Crystals?
They should make good stocking stuffers!
Posted by: RI Red
**********
This is just one example of why you are considered a funny man!
Weasel, thx as always. Got any leads on Magic Beans or Shooting Crystals?
They should make good stocking stuffers!
Posted by: RI Red
**********
This is just one example of why you are considered a funny man!
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (IQ6Gq)
292
Tungsten carbide is very, very hard, and also very dense.
If I remember right, carbide (it's used for cutters) had a density of 15, and pure tungsten was 19. Lead is 11.
If I remember right, carbide (it's used for cutters) had a density of 15, and pure tungsten was 19. Lead is 11.
Posted by: t-bird at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (oAqqA)
293
The Mauser C96 broomhandle was my choice.
Posted by: Han Solo at December 14, 2025 09:21 PM (XeU6L)
---
That was the short-barreled version, which collectors call the "Bolo" because it was sold to the Bolsheviks in quantity after WW I.
Posted by: Han Solo at December 14, 2025 09:21 PM (XeU6L)
---
That was the short-barreled version, which collectors call the "Bolo" because it was sold to the Bolsheviks in quantity after WW I.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:27 PM (ZOv7s)
294
If i had room for more guns:
https://tinyurl.com/4nhzxhuw
That Tisas is on my list. I shot a friend of mine's in October. It's pretty nice and a nice shooter. He paid $650 at the gun show and that was a good discount off what it was selling for there (which was already well below list).
And now they are selling them for $500....
https://tinyurl.com/4nhzxhuw
That Tisas is on my list. I shot a friend of mine's in October. It's pretty nice and a nice shooter. He paid $650 at the gun show and that was a good discount off what it was selling for there (which was already well below list).
And now they are selling them for $500....
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:27 PM (RoO7G)
295
AOP, the US Army acquired at least one C96 and tested it from 1898-1903. The Army ended up rejecting the Mauser because the stocked pistol's performance was inferior to the Krag carbine, the number of jams or misfires during shooting test, and its high cost compared to the revolvers it would replace.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:24 PM (BCwQW)
Makes sense. I was wondering why it got no mention in the video above. It was available, and had been used successfully in battle against fanatic muslims, in fact.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:24 PM (BCwQW)
Makes sense. I was wondering why it got no mention in the video above. It was available, and had been used successfully in battle against fanatic muslims, in fact.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:28 PM (npFr7)
296
From what I read on the Brown shooting the laser isn't the unique identifying aspect, is it? Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat
Exactly, it was the cell phone. The NY Post story saying the handgun laser helped in locating this guy was a factor struck me as, WTH, how that possible? Something doesn't make sense with this. Most likely the jOuRnAlIsT didn't get something right here.
Exactly, it was the cell phone. The NY Post story saying the handgun laser helped in locating this guy was a factor struck me as, WTH, how that possible? Something doesn't make sense with this. Most likely the jOuRnAlIsT didn't get something right here.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions at December 14, 2025 09:28 PM (uv8gn)
297
and I forgot, the C96 Mauser, the Manlicher 1894 pistol and the 1900 Colt Browning in .38 were tried in 1900, in 1906 it was decided to hold different trials.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:28 PM (rbvCR)
298
For a full accounting of all of the pistols tested by the US Army during the years leading up to the M1911, see Edward Scott Meadows' "US Military Automatic Pistols, 1894-1920."
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:29 PM (BCwQW)
299
You have to either hand load short 2.5" cases for the SMLE or ream the chamber out to 2.75-3.0 inches for commercial shells. And you get one shot. Fine for a prison guard, not so good if you need a second one in a hurry.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:22 PM (WDjG6)
---
The one I picked up ran just fine on standard commercial ammo. Maybe a previous owner worked on it.
One shot is annoying, but it is satisfying turning the bolt after dusting a clay.
That's why you have the bayonet.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:22 PM (WDjG6)
---
The one I picked up ran just fine on standard commercial ammo. Maybe a previous owner worked on it.
One shot is annoying, but it is satisfying turning the bolt after dusting a clay.
That's why you have the bayonet.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:29 PM (ZOv7s)
300
Speaking of the need to understand how a gun works and maintaining it ...
I've mentioned in the past that I have the Gun Digest Assembly/Disassembly books that cover most of my firearms. This is a series and each one covers a particular class of guns: rimfire rifles, centerfire rifles, semiauto handguns, revolvers, shotguns, etc. There is probably one for the AR platform by now. The diagrams take it down to each screw and component. They have come in handy over the years. I'm no gunsmith, but even I can follow the schematics.
I've mentioned in the past that I have the Gun Digest Assembly/Disassembly books that cover most of my firearms. This is a series and each one covers a particular class of guns: rimfire rifles, centerfire rifles, semiauto handguns, revolvers, shotguns, etc. There is probably one for the AR platform by now. The diagrams take it down to each screw and component. They have come in handy over the years. I'm no gunsmith, but even I can follow the schematics.
Posted by: JTB at December 14, 2025 09:30 PM (yTvNw)
301
The Broomhandle was arguably the best handgun of its time, with 10 round capacity, rapid reload, and a powerful cartridge that was not unpleasant to shoot.
But it was expensive, and contracts for it were few, mostly small orders here and there. China loved them, and Spain made bank cranking out imitations that streamlined the design. Mine belonged to the KMT at some point, and came to the US during the great 80s junk sale, when China opened up the militia arsenals in a bid to raise foreign currency (sort of like Franco did 30 years before).
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
I think NIH was part of it as US was already in the courts over the 1903 Springfield violating Mauser patents and the Krag was also viewed as Not Invented Here. Plus the 1911 in 45 Auto is simply one of the great military and police firearms of all time. Loose enough to function in the slop of trench warfare, but was a definite man stopper in close in battle using military FMJ.
Changing out magazines is also easier than a fixed magazine using stripper clips which is why the Germans went mostly with the Luger in WWI rather than the Mauser.
But I agree, a 7.63 Mauser is not a weapon to sneeze at.
But it was expensive, and contracts for it were few, mostly small orders here and there. China loved them, and Spain made bank cranking out imitations that streamlined the design. Mine belonged to the KMT at some point, and came to the US during the great 80s junk sale, when China opened up the militia arsenals in a bid to raise foreign currency (sort of like Franco did 30 years before).
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd
I think NIH was part of it as US was already in the courts over the 1903 Springfield violating Mauser patents and the Krag was also viewed as Not Invented Here. Plus the 1911 in 45 Auto is simply one of the great military and police firearms of all time. Loose enough to function in the slop of trench warfare, but was a definite man stopper in close in battle using military FMJ.
Changing out magazines is also easier than a fixed magazine using stripper clips which is why the Germans went mostly with the Luger in WWI rather than the Mauser.
But I agree, a 7.63 Mauser is not a weapon to sneeze at.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:31 PM (WDjG6)
302
What could be so unique about a laser light that could be used to as a lead here?
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
The only thing I know for sure is it's Trump’s fault.
Chris Murphy goes after Trump for Brown University shoot*ng:
“Donald Trump has been engaged in a dizzying campaign to increase violence in this country."
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
The only thing I know for sure is it's Trump’s fault.
Chris Murphy goes after Trump for Brown University shoot*ng:
“Donald Trump has been engaged in a dizzying campaign to increase violence in this country."
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Pumpkin Spice! at December 14, 2025 09:31 PM (L/fGl)
303
Makes sense. I was wondering why it got no mention in the video above. It was available, and had been used successfully in battle against fanatic muslims, in fact.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:28 PM (npFr7)
---
British officers purchased their own sidearms, and because his mother was rich, Winston got the hottest new thing out there. It served him well, that's for sure.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:28 PM (npFr7)
---
British officers purchased their own sidearms, and because his mother was rich, Winston got the hottest new thing out there. It served him well, that's for sure.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (ZOv7s)
304
For the sabot round fired out of a pistol: it'd be crazy if depleted uranium was tried. IIRC, DU is even denser than tungsten is. Of course, the nasty aftereffects of DU after it goes through things would be a problem. DU dust inhaled into the lungs is pretty toxic.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (BCwQW)
305
Shooter ID is out:
The alleged gunman who opened fire at Brown University on Saturday, killing two people and injuring nine others, is a US Army infantry soldier with sniper training.
Well former soldier.
Interesting, maybe, tidbit from his reported LinkedIn:
The LinkedIn page further notes that he was open to volunteering opportunities - listing a variety of causes from animal welfare, civil rights, gender equity, public safety and refugee and migrant support.
The alleged gunman who opened fire at Brown University on Saturday, killing two people and injuring nine others, is a US Army infantry soldier with sniper training.
Well former soldier.
Interesting, maybe, tidbit from his reported LinkedIn:
The LinkedIn page further notes that he was open to volunteering opportunities - listing a variety of causes from animal welfare, civil rights, gender equity, public safety and refugee and migrant support.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (RoO7G)
306
I've mentioned in the past that I have the Gun Digest Assembly/Disassembly books that cover most of my firearms. This is a series and each one covers a particular class of guns: rimfire rifles, centerfire rifles, semiauto handguns, revolvers, shotguns, etc. There is probably one for the AR platform by now. The diagrams take it down to each screw and component. They have come in handy over the years. I'm no gunsmith, but even I can follow the schematics.
Posted by: JTB
-----
Gun Digest press have one for long rifles updated every couple of years, shotguns, ditto, and handguns. There are a cottage industry of AR manuals but the comic book style AR manuals is hard to beat and still available. Famous cartoonist did that one.
You will, however, see a bump off of old models and addition of newer ones. Older editions can be found online at Ebay for a modest price.
Posted by: JTB
-----
Gun Digest press have one for long rifles updated every couple of years, shotguns, ditto, and handguns. There are a cottage industry of AR manuals but the comic book style AR manuals is hard to beat and still available. Famous cartoonist did that one.
You will, however, see a bump off of old models and addition of newer ones. Older editions can be found online at Ebay for a modest price.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:33 PM (WDjG6)
307
300/ [Grateful makes note of this to discuss this at subsequent gathering...]
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:33 PM (IQ6Gq)
308
Thanks Weasel for the Gunthread if a bit late. Gotta go as I have a nuclear heart stress test in the early morning.
Have a good week y'all.
Have a good week y'all.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:35 PM (WDjG6)
309
If I remember right, carbide (it's used for cutters) had a density of 15, and pure tungsten was 19. Lead is 11.
Posted by: t-bird at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (oAqqA)
But to punch a hole in armor plate, your penetrator also has to be hard, and tough. Too brittle, it will shatter. Too soft, it will splatter.
Was watching a Tao Fledermaus video the other night, and they were shooting "Kylon" slugs, which had a tungsten carbide cylinder about 1/4" diameter by 3/4" long embedded in a nylon waisted pellet shape. It consistently punched holes in AR500 armor plate, taking out a little cylindrical plug of steel. The penetrator itself fractured into powder in the course of doing that.
Posted by: t-bird at December 14, 2025 09:26 PM (oAqqA)
But to punch a hole in armor plate, your penetrator also has to be hard, and tough. Too brittle, it will shatter. Too soft, it will splatter.
Was watching a Tao Fledermaus video the other night, and they were shooting "Kylon" slugs, which had a tungsten carbide cylinder about 1/4" diameter by 3/4" long embedded in a nylon waisted pellet shape. It consistently punched holes in AR500 armor plate, taking out a little cylindrical plug of steel. The penetrator itself fractured into powder in the course of doing that.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 14, 2025 09:35 PM (npFr7)
310
305/ this may or may not be accurate...reports are there are two individuals in WI with the same name and age, and only one with military experience...
fog of war...to be continued....
fog of war...to be continued....
Posted by: The Grateful - Acta Non Verba at December 14, 2025 09:36 PM (IQ6Gq)
Posted by: Oddbob at December 14, 2025 09:36 PM (3nLb4)
312
Changing out magazines is also easier than a fixed magazine using stripper clips which is why the Germans went mostly with the Luger in WWI rather than the Mauser.
But I agree, a 7.63 Mauser is not a weapon to sneeze at.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:31 PM (WDjG6)
---
Of course, when the Broomhandle came along, detachable box magazines were not even part of the conversation. The thing about them was that they had to be of good quality, and they were very expensive, which is why the Broomhandle soldiered on, and Steyr decided against them as well. The Steyr Hahn is another odd beast, the bastard offspring of an early Colt and Austrian engineering.
Don't push the wrong button, or instead of sending the slide forward, you'll create a shower of bullets out of the magazine.
But I agree, a 7.63 Mauser is not a weapon to sneeze at.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:31 PM (WDjG6)
---
Of course, when the Broomhandle came along, detachable box magazines were not even part of the conversation. The thing about them was that they had to be of good quality, and they were very expensive, which is why the Broomhandle soldiered on, and Steyr decided against them as well. The Steyr Hahn is another odd beast, the bastard offspring of an early Colt and Austrian engineering.
Don't push the wrong button, or instead of sending the slide forward, you'll create a shower of bullets out of the magazine.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (ZOv7s)
313
For the sabot round fired out of a pistol: it'd be crazy if depleted uranium was tried. IIRC, DU is even denser than tungsten is. Of course, the nasty aftereffects of DU after it goes through things would be a problem. DU dust inhaled into the lungs is pretty toxic.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (BCwQW)
Starting to see colleagues of mine from Desert Storm popping up with leukemia.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (BCwQW)
Starting to see colleagues of mine from Desert Storm popping up with leukemia.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (2WIwB)
314
British officers purchased their own sidearms, and because his mother was rich, Winston got the hottest new thing out there. It served him well, that's for sure.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (ZOv7s)
Churchill purchased a Colt Government Model (SN# C15566) and took it with him when he served in France on the Western Front. He engraved "Winston Spencer Churchill" on the right side of slide later. He continued to carry that Colt Government Model, even when he became Prime Minister during WWII.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:32 PM (ZOv7s)
Churchill purchased a Colt Government Model (SN# C15566) and took it with him when he served in France on the Western Front. He engraved "Winston Spencer Churchill" on the right side of slide later. He continued to carry that Colt Government Model, even when he became Prime Minister during WWII.
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (BCwQW)
315
And, you also had to pass the Teddy R. test.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM
In an alternate universe, TR found himself assigned as a Brigadier General of Ordnance, as a means to sideline him from politics, and was tasked to upgrade American small arms. His first act was to shut down the 1903 project and license the Mauser M98...
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 09:19 PM
In an alternate universe, TR found himself assigned as a Brigadier General of Ordnance, as a means to sideline him from politics, and was tasked to upgrade American small arms. His first act was to shut down the 1903 project and license the Mauser M98...
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 09:38 PM (4mmkh)
316
For a full accounting of all of the pistols tested by the US Army during the years leading up to the M1911, see Edward Scott Meadows' "US Military Automatic Pistols, 1894-1920."
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:29 PM (BCwQW)
You can also find it in Edward C Ezell's Handguns of the World
Posted by: Ed L at December 14, 2025 09:29 PM (BCwQW)
You can also find it in Edward C Ezell's Handguns of the World
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:38 PM (rbvCR)
317
Starting to see colleagues of mine from Desert Storm popping up with leukemia.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (2WIwB)
Meant to add that there was a lot of DU flying around in that war. Even some indications of just long term handling of DU munitions was an issue.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (2WIwB)
Meant to add that there was a lot of DU flying around in that war. Even some indications of just long term handling of DU munitions was an issue.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:41 PM (2WIwB)
318
@298 As I recall the history of 1890's tests, an early Luger then called a Borchardt was evaluated. Some testers were pretty excited by its potential, but it failed mud and dust trials.
Posted by: Way, Way Downriver at December 14, 2025 09:42 PM (zdLoL)
319
Starting to see colleagues of mine from Desert Storm popping up with leukemia.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (2WIwB)
---
People saw the "uranium" thing and thought about radioactivity, but heavy metal toxicity is also a thing.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 14, 2025 09:37 PM (2WIwB)
---
People saw the "uranium" thing and thought about radioactivity, but heavy metal toxicity is also a thing.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:42 PM (ZOv7s)
320
I've got some sabot slugs for my shotgun. Well not technically sabot they call them "aero wads" for smoothbore.
But you get essentially a sub-caliber slug coming out of the 12 guage.
But you get essentially a sub-caliber slug coming out of the 12 guage.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at December 14, 2025 09:43 PM (RoO7G)
321
I don't think any army adopted the C-96. A few like the Germans used it as an alternate weapon, and the Russians used it since they seized a train-load that were being shipped to the Bolsheviks. The Spanish made it but most of the sales were to China.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:44 PM (rbvCR)
322
OK, I think I see where the "$24 pistol" video comes in. That's the cost of building the post-WW1 A1 version of the 1911. It gets mentioned in the $15 video.
Thanks for the thread, Weasel! Thank you, Horde, for the comments! See y'all in the shooting gallery, hopefully.
Thanks for the thread, Weasel! Thank you, Horde, for the comments! See y'all in the shooting gallery, hopefully.
Posted by: GWB at December 14, 2025 09:46 PM (dznca)
323
Well, I hope it was worth the anger
@ReturnOfKappy
·
5m
Rob Reiner Hollywood director and actor was found dead in his home..
@ReturnOfKappy
·
5m
Rob Reiner Hollywood director and actor was found dead in his home..
Posted by: weft cut loop at December 14, 2025 09:50 PM (mlg/3)
324
Early in the Ukrainian War, the US was supplying some depleted uranium ordnance. The Russians made some pointed comments about how this was a form of chemical warfare. There was also a scare when some ammo dumps were blown up that may have stored DU shells.
I don't know if anything ever became of it.
I don't know if anything ever became of it.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at December 14, 2025 09:51 PM (4mmkh)
325
I don't think any army adopted the C-96. A few like the Germans used it as an alternate weapon, and the Russians used it since they seized a train-load that were being shipped to the Bolsheviks. The Spanish made it but most of the sales were to China.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:44 PM (rbvCR)
---
And yet it stayed in production until 1937 with some 700,000 units produced. Not bad.
Posted by: Kindltot at December 14, 2025 09:44 PM (rbvCR)
---
And yet it stayed in production until 1937 with some 700,000 units produced. Not bad.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:51 PM (ZOv7s)
326
Errr....
@BNONews
·
44m
BREAKING: 2 elderly people found dead at Los Angeles home of film director Rob Reiner. Identities not yet confirmed. Detectives investigating - NBCLA
@BNONews
·
44m
BREAKING: 2 elderly people found dead at Los Angeles home of film director Rob Reiner. Identities not yet confirmed. Detectives investigating - NBCLA
Posted by: weft cut loop at December 14, 2025 09:51 PM (mlg/3)
327
BREAKING: 2 elderly people found dead at Los Angeles home of film director Rob Reiner. Identities not yet confirmed. Detectives investigating - NBCLA
Posted by: weft cut loop
-----
Bad actor not named.
Posted by: weft cut loop
-----
Bad actor not named.
Posted by: Han Solo at December 14, 2025 09:56 PM (XeU6L)
328
I am not a fan of celebrating people's deaths even if it's someone I do not care for personally.
Posted by: Weasel at December 14, 2025 09:57 PM (DJPFk)
329
I have not found Toks hard to shoot. They make a fireball, for sure. But .357 mag out of SP-101 or hell, full power .38 special out of an airweight is more punishing.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at December 14, 2025 09:57 PM (xcxpd)
330
Well, I guess it's time to thank Weasel, even though he may not be able to see this, what with the power and all. Still, it's the thought that counts!
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 09:57 PM (ZOv7s)
331
I have not found Toks hard to shoot. They make a fireball, for sure. But .357 mag out of SP-101 or hell, full power .38 special out of an airweight is more punishing.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at December 14, 2025 09:57 PM (xcxpd)
---
My EDC for 20 years was a Total Titanium in .38 special, and I practiced regularly. It could be that I got a Romanian lemon, or maybe I'm just getting old.
I mean, there's a reason I shifted to .32 Mag.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at December 14, 2025 09:57 PM (xcxpd)
---
My EDC for 20 years was a Total Titanium in .38 special, and I practiced regularly. It could be that I got a Romanian lemon, or maybe I'm just getting old.
I mean, there's a reason I shifted to .32 Mag.
Posted by: Former Gun Owner A.H. Lloyd at December 14, 2025 10:00 PM (ZOv7s)
332
I just saw the news on 4chan /tv/, not confirmed it's Mr / Mrs Reiner.
Although who else would it be. The Reiners are past the Henley age where random underage girls just materialize dead and/or ODed in your home.
Although who else would it be. The Reiners are past the Henley age where random underage girls just materialize dead and/or ODed in your home.
Posted by: gKWVE at December 14, 2025 10:03 PM (gKWVE)
333
tbh, I miss Greene more. His Dorian was an excellent villain in The Mask. Greene should have done more movies.
Posted by: gKWVE at December 14, 2025 10:05 PM (gKWVE)
334
I am not a fan of celebrating people's deaths even if it's someone I do not care for personally."
Indeed. I do not speak ill of the dead.
I don't have to speak kindly, either, as the case may be.
Indeed. I do not speak ill of the dead.
I don't have to speak kindly, either, as the case may be.
Posted by: man at December 14, 2025 10:07 PM (XuXeR)
335
Signing off. Thanks for another great Gun Thread, Weasel!
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 14, 2025 10:08 PM (Wnv9h)
336
The problem with depleted uranium is more chemical than radiological: it’s a heavy metal poison. Of course lead is a heavy metal poison too.
Posted by: NemoMeImpuneLacessit at December 14, 2025 10:19 PM (APZWP)
337
Find yourself some Kroil and apply it try the safety, try a little more, try the safety. Let it sit for a day, do it some more. PB blaster is almost as good but messier. Both stink from solvents used-different odors but both stink.
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:28 PM
Thanks whig.
Bride of PI AND the dogs are not happy when I use solvents in the house, but they are a very useful chemical!
Posted by: whig at December 14, 2025 08:28 PM
Thanks whig.
Bride of PI AND the dogs are not happy when I use solvents in the house, but they are a very useful chemical!
Posted by: Pillage Idiot at December 14, 2025 11:12 PM (HlyYF)
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